Michael Malice and Dave Smith dismantle progressive narratives, exposing Governor Cuomo's arbitrary pandemic restrictions as unconstitutional overreach and debunking the Bubba Wallace noose hoax as a media fabrication. They critique the "Mott and Bailey" phenomenon where activists ignore facts like creationists, while challenging inflated sexual assault statistics and dismissing gender-fluid identities as transient phases. The discussion further analyzes the alt-right's strategic failure, the logical fallacy equating racism's existence with universality, and the Libertarian Party's pandering to dominant ideologies, ultimately arguing that true liberty requires rejecting both state intervention and forced moral conformity. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Essential Socks and Gym Access00:09:35
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We need to roll back the state.
We spy on all of our own citizens.
Our prisons are flooded with nonviolent drug offenders.
If you want to know who America's next enemy is, look at who we're funding right now.
Every single one of these problems are a result of government being way too big.
What's up, everybody?
The great crossover episodes continue.
I am joined by the wonderful, extraordinary, and handsome Michael Malice.
How are you today, sir?
I'm ticked.
I like ticked, Michael Malice.
No, I just found out Governor Cuomo is not letting gyms open in stage four.
The one place where, if you had to ask, if you were playing some family feud, name a place where people take steps to ensure that they're healthy.
Number one, it would probably be hospital, right?
Number two, gym.
It might even be one.
It would definitely be on the board.
It would be on the board.
It would be very high on the board.
So, how is it that gyms are not open, but bars are?
Like, I mean, I guess it's going to keep people from riding if they get drunk, but I think it's really.
And here's the other thing: everyone, mom and pop, mom and pop.
Mom and pop shops are selling these shitty Hallmark cards.
Like, they don't, if they go out of business for Walmart, those mom and pop shops are often just like stationary stores that don't have anything unique.
They're not curated, which is something I adore as a hipster.
There's a lot of mom and pop gyms.
Oh, yeah.
There's a lot of just some asshole who isn't, I don't want to say asshole, whatever.
Some guy, I'm just heated.
He was an athlete, a wrestler, weightlifter, not educated.
He knows this culture.
He gets some weights.
He rents a space.
It makes a place where people feel comfortable with their own kind.
They go there.
They stay out of trouble.
Like, is there any better mechanism for having young men with too much testosterone and time in their hands, like to keep them, shift them into a socially positive direction?
Other than, I know we're going to freak out.
I'm only saying this half-tongue-in-cheek, other than the military, than the gym.
Like, this is really the place that, like, focus that very potentially socially disadvantageous energy in a positive direction.
Yeah, and it doesn't have all of the casualties of the military focus.
No, I mean, listen, there definitely is something to that phenomenon of the military.
I mean, the military takes a lot of really troubled young men and instills some discipline in them.
For a lot of people, if they never see action, which is the case for a lot of people in the military, it can be kind of overall a positive thing.
Unfortunately, it comes with the pretty gruesome side effect of, you know, slaughtering people in third world countries.
But the gym has none of that.
The gym just, you know, the worst effect of the gym is maybe a little bit of vanity, too much flexing in front of a mirror.
But yeah, it really is interesting that, you know, it was something that we were almost forced to confront.
And then we really never discussed too much as a society.
I hate saying that.
But where they were like, well, we have to keep liquor stores open.
We have to let people get booze through all this.
And no one really gave it too much pushback because there was kind of a realization, like, yeah, that is true.
Like, if you're just asking people to stay in their house and they're terrified and they're jobless and all this stuff, and they also can't have a drink, people might just freak out.
So we need to let them have a drink.
But for lots of Americans that don't really drink and go to the gym, it's the same thing, if not more devastating, to take that away from them.
If you're, first off, it's very good, not just for your physical health, but for your mental health to exercise.
But a lot of people, if they just don't exercise, their bodies aren't used to it.
But if you do regularly go to the gym and that's taken away from you, that can have very, very devastating effects, both physically and psychologically.
And it's also a place where a lot of people who are socially maladjusted, this is their only place where they see other human beings and after them.
Like a lot of these people who are like hardcore bodybuilders or whatever athletes, they are a mess.
And they thought, well, if I work out, then I can get laid.
It's like, no, now I'm just jacked in a mess.
But the point is, there's this concept in our culture, which I despise.
And it's kind of this idea that like, well, if it's not a problem for me, it's not a problem for anybody.
And the extreme of this, and this is something that we don't have here, thank God, like in North Korea, right?
When you have central planning, like they were having issues with like feminine hygiene products because the men who were organizing the economy and thinking production, it never entered their head that you're going to need maxi pads or tampons because they're just not thinking those terms.
Not even being sexist just doesn't ever enter their head, right?
So it's like, well, you know, I don't work out.
No one I know works out.
So what do I care?
And it's like that's to have the state have that kind of blithe power over the economy is so despicable to me.
And this, and we all know, of course, it could get a lot worse than this than not being able to go to the gym, of course.
Yeah.
Well, one of the things that's, and I've talked about this a bit throughout the lockdowns, but one of the things that's just really scary about this experiment in government overreach is like what, you know, I guess the slippery slope argument, but like what precedent has been set by this?
I mean, number one, there's nobody has at any point been pressured.
I mean, with the exception of Governor Murphy when he was on Tucker Carlson's show, and that they kind of just dropped that after a few questions.
Nobody seems to be pressured to go, hey, can you just point to the law, the statute that gives you the authority to do this?
Like, where in the Constitution, where, you know, obviously, this is why we like we were talking about on your show the other day of how, you know, like the Second Amendment even existing is kind of absurd at this point.
There's there's no reality to it.
But no one seems, and then, you know, there was this one lawyer.
I don't say one thing.
The First Amendment says the right to peaceably assemble.
The right, not when you feel like it.
And to practice your religion, which has been, you know, completely shut down.
You could have a, let's go full, like a social democrat.
Could have a law that, or let's pretend this: if you go to the gym, you eat your wipe down, you need to have a mask the whole time, social, whatever you have.
No, you can't step foot inside this building.
Screw you, it's structurally sound.
Yeah, it makes absolutely no sense.
And then, I mean, the idea, which of course, just like the Second Amendment, I mean, this idea has been gone for a long time, but the principle of equal application under the law.
I mean, where exactly does the government have the authority to say that some people are in what we deem the essential class and other people are in the non-essential class.
And even if you were, you know, like, okay, you could make some type of argument, not that it's a legal argument, but you could make some type of argument that certain things are essential and certain things aren't.
You know, food production is essential, but you know, whatever else isn't.
But they've got where is the objective argument that a liquor store is essential, but a bookstore isn't, or that a gym isn't essential.
Like, how do you get to that place?
It's completely arbitrary.
If liquor stores were essential, it couldn't have been illegal, right?
By definition.
If something's essential and by law it goes away, then everything collapses.
That's not what happened.
So if food went away, we would all die.
Like, this is not even a question.
We've tried not having liquor.
Things got bad.
It did not cause the entire civilization to collapse.
So by definition, your claim that it's, and then it's, then we realize, oh, they don't mean essential.
They just mean like more important than others.
And it's the animal pharma thing of, oh, yes, all animals are equal, but some equal or more animals are more equal than others.
Right.
The Jussie Smollett Controversy00:08:26
Yes.
No, that is, that is what we're living through.
It's a, it's a weird time.
And then, of course, evidently, um, protesting racism is essential.
Not only essential, but uh mandatory.
Yeah, right, exactly.
Or mandatory, at least encouraged.
Um, so there was uh uh this this story that I wanted to talk to you about uh today was um I'm sure you've you've been following this, but uh Bubba Wallace.
I had to look at him to make sure I know.
Oh my god.
Yeah, I followed it a little.
Yeah.
So it was okay.
So the story was Bubba Wallace.
This guy's a black NASCAR driver.
And there was a noose supposedly, allegedly, waiting in his garage for him.
And I don't know, I even know where to start with this.
Everybody with an IQ higher than 70 and with a tiny little bit of common sense knew right away as soon as this came out.
We went, this is surely not true.
This is just, I mean, I would have bet everything I had in my bank account on this being a hoax.
And of course, the media ran with it right away, as they do with all of these things.
It's not even, it's past the point of like, oh, they still haven't learned their lesson and into a territory of like, no, they have learned their lesson and they don't care that this is going to come out.
They've learned their lesson, which is that there's no, there's no consequences to getting these things completely wrong.
The FBI investigated it.
Of course, this thing turned out to be a complete hoax.
I love the idea that let's suppose you and I came home and like there was like a swastika in our office that we'd call the fucking FBI or like literally like a letter that says, I'm going to kill you, Jew, you know, or like something in the oven.
Like, oh, I better call the FBI, the FBI.
Yeah.
No, it's really funny.
And it's one of the things that is most disturbing about the left-wing anti-police sentiment is that they love the federal police, who are like the worst of all of them.
By every metric, they're the worst cops.
They're the most racist historically.
They're the most destructive.
They're, you know, the most above the law and out of control.
Anyway, so the FBI looks into it.
Turns out it's not a noose.
It is a garage door rope.
And it's been there since at least September of last year.
So they switch who the drivers are in these garages constantly.
There is absolutely no chance that this was a hate crime meant to send a message to this Bubba guy.
It's just not real at all.
And the really amazing thing, I don't know if this is like a red pill or a black pill moment, but the really amazing thing is that they don't give up on it.
This guy, Bubba, went on Don Lemon's show and said, look, it was a noose.
I know what a noose looks like.
That's it.
Even though they have a white pill.
Is that what it is?
A white pill?
Well, explain.
I don't want to interrupt you.
Well, that was more or less the point, just that they won't give up on it.
Al Sharpton is saying we still need to get to the bottom of this.
If you have an enemy, Ayn Rand, in her, I forget which novel it was, maybe Dracula.
She makes the point of you can evade reality, but you cannot evade the consequences of evading reality.
If I am saying something that is untrue, we don't even have to say lie.
We just by untrue, I mean something that doesn't correspond to reality.
And if there is some modicum of free speech, whereas other people can critique you, point it out, bring counters to your story, it is very, very bad strategy to keep insisting on something that does not correspond to reality.
Now, I agree with you that I could see how someone would be depressed, like, oh man, these people aren't changing their tune.
But it's like, has there been any band that had one song that was successful for a long period of time?
The term one-hit wonder is a term of derision.
Not fairly, because I think if a band has only one hit, that's still a major accomplishment, given credit.
That's not the here nor there.
The point being, like, if your opponent only has one weapon, isn't that preferable to like the T1000 who keeps changing shape no matter what the situation is?
And at a certain point, change is marginal, right?
Like, let's say with prices, how much are you going to pay for this car?
At $5,000, everyone's buying it, right?
At a trillion, no one's buying it.
At six, less, fewer, fewer, ten thousand, fewer, few, fewer.
People don't understand that.
They think binary.
They think either everyone or nobody.
There's different points, just like in poker, where people are like, all right, I'm out.
And maybe it wasn't the Jussie Smollett incident, but if you keep telling the same story and the story keeps being not just fake, but ridiculous, and you are reacting the same every time, different points, people will be like, all right, this is the line for me.
Because it becomes harder and harder for me as a Facebook friend to defend the same thing over and over to people without looking like an ass.
And I'll give you an example of why this is also a black pill.
I can see both sides.
I wasn't following this story at all.
And someone, and I clicked that it was trending.
Bubba was trending.
I thought it was going to be a Bill Clinton reference, honestly.
I never heard of this person, and that's no disrespect.
No, we're just New York City Jews.
We don't know about it.
I don't know how to drive a car.
I know how, yeah, it's called Uber.
And you put up the privacy window.
And someone had tweeted, it was not a person with a big name.
They had like 500 followers, but they were at the top of the stack when you click on the trending link.
And they said, this was amazing.
They said, from Jussie Smollett to Bubba, what's his last name?
Watson, I think.
This is how much I know.
Yes, Bubba Wallace.
I'm sorry.
Bubba Wallace.
Excuse me.
From Jussie Smollett to Bubble Wallace, like it's a testament to like systemic racism, how people tend to disbelieve minorities when the story comes out.
And I said, when Jussie Smollett came out, to even question his story was to be called a racist.
But here was what's amazing what the guy said.
The guy was invoking Jussie Smollett. as an example of how it's absurd to question a black person's story.
And again, this is what happens when I keep saying it's a fundamentalist faith, right?
If you are a creationist, a literal creationist, and think the world was created in seven days, and I get responses from creationists and I'm not interested in hearing them.
And they see fossils, they're not going to question their point of view.
They're going to take that data and reconcile it with their point of view.
This was a big issue for, I forget what his name was.
I think it's Bishop Berkeley, but I know that that's wrong.
There was a bishop who did the math in the New Testament, Old Testament.
It figured out how old the world was based on this one beget this one.
Okay, he's born then, blah, blah, blah.
And they figured out at like the time of day.
And then they did the math with the Egyptian pharaohs, where we had the different dynasties.
And they're like, it doesn't add up.
Like the creation of Earth, Egyptians were around for far longer.
Then they had to be like, okay, well, when it says day, God is using that word loosely in the Old Testament, so and so forth.
Why?
Which makes sense.
The point being, it's very hard to persuade ambivalent people if you don't have a monopoly, if you're telling a story that is absurd and telling it over and over.
At different points, people just get off the ship at the very least because they're sick of defending you to their friends who are just like, come on.
And they have this something called Mott and Bailey, which I discuss in my book.
And I hate that term for it, but that's the term.
Mott and Bailey means you have your part of your argument that no one can argue with.
And then you have the bullshit.
And when they call you on the bullshit, you retreat to the other one.
Then you pretend it's that the first one's been proven.
For example, they'll say, blah, blah, blah, blah, this new story is bullshit.
This is ridiculous.
Crypto Trading and Physical Metals00:02:45
Why would this happen?
Oh, so you're saying that racism doesn't exist in America?
I'm not saying that.
Right.
So this story isn't bullshit.
And it's this ridiculous shell game that they play constantly.
Jamal Hill, I know she's one of these big names in these circles.
She kept doubling down as well.
So I think it is, I think a lot of, this is very bad for black people because a lot of white people who would have been sympathetic to what they're saying, if they're told, if you're sympathetic to us, you have to believe all these things are true as well, they're going to be like, no, I'm not.
And they presented a package deal.
This is also a big problem with a lot of members of like the alt-right who basically say, well, you have to be against immigration from Mexico, but also like in favor of like Holocaust skepticism.
And a lot of people are like, yeah, I'm not, no, I'm not doing that packaging.
And it's not good branding for them to put it in those terms because many people are going to be like, this is not something I'm signing up for under any circumstances.
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Rape Culture Claims Explained00:15:32
All right, let's get back into the show.
So I do think this for you to say this is a black pill, I think you have to look at it in terms of efficacy, long-term strategy.
And I think when you have the stereotypical corporation, dinosaur corporation, is something that's unable to change with the times and keeps putting out the same bans and wondering, and then, oh, it's Napster's fault that no one's buying my records.
They're going to start blaming racism that people aren't buying their crap, and that's fine.
But at a certain point, that point has passed, in my view, a long time ago.
This has been seen to be ridiculous and absurd.
And let's put it this way.
Let's put it this way.
Let's get really sick with it.
I would say if you had a nation that has gone from lynching black people to a nation that has gone to black people find nooses in their house every so often, that's a big improvement.
Yeah.
If that stuff were true.
Yes, well, it's just right.
And but the truth is that just one more thing.
Can you imagine if the worst thing Hitler did was he sent like second-class mail to Jews?
Like they'd be like, you suck it, you're destroying Germany.
Like, and that's like the extent of it.
It's like, oh, this is, this hurts my feelings.
Like, crumble garbage.
But I mean, like, this is a lot of family guy.
It was in Family Guy.
At one point, they like time Trump, Stewie, and Brian time travel to Nazi Germany.
And one of the, like, one of the Nazis is like, get them.
He's a Jew.
And he goes, and Stewie goes, oh man, when your HR department hears about this, it's like the greatest, like, as if there's an HR department in Nazi Germany or something.
So what you said about this being, which, of course, was a major theme, the central theme of the new right, your wonderful book, that this is a religious ideology.
And I think the comparison to the creationist is accurate.
That it doesn't, when you have a religious fundamentalist conviction in something, there is no piece of evidence that's going to sway you.
And if you say, well, God created the world 5,000 years ago, and well, here's a fossil that's dated, you know, 400,000 years old.
It's like, well, God created that 4,000 years ago.
Or the dating is wrong.
The dating could be wrong.
Or I've also heard creationists argue just that, well, God didn't create the world brand new.
He created something that was old, you know, and you can't really disprove that.
And there are a lot of these claims that people on the left make that aren't exactly testable.
I just got to, I have to, because if they say, like, oh, look, we got two Jews making fun of this, we're the ones who believe in the Old Testament a lot more than you guys do.
So don't, don't try that one.
We're the ones who are chosen to get the Old Testament.
I'm a moderate Christian conservative.
So I'm on your team.
I wouldn't be making fun of this stuff.
I'm just saying how these, I'm just analyzing how these trains of thoughts work.
Trying to get inside the Jewish mind.
So, but there are, so it's like, for example, the claim that we live in a rape culture.
Yeah.
Well, it's kind of a vague claim.
I mean, there's no exact line of what makes something a rape culture.
It doesn't.
I mean, if the number of women who are raped are one in four or one in 10 or one in 50.
I don't know.
Is that a rape culture?
Is it not?
And then you have to just kind of use your own common sense and say things like, well, I don't know.
I mean, if you walk outside in the summer in the East Village, girls are wearing very scantily clad outfits.
Doesn't seem to me like a rape culture.
It doesn't seem like a bunch of people walking around terrified of being raped.
It just, that's my judgment.
And the claim right now is that we're living in a racist culture.
And again, it's one of these things where, oh, okay, well, it's not that there's zero racism in the culture, but how do we have a reasonable assessment of how racist this culture really is?
And one thing, you know, if you're kind of aware of the culture at all, when you just hear about somebody leaving a noose for a black guy in 2020 America, to me, it sounds, I go, not very likely.
Not to say it's impossible or that it couldn't happen.
It's just not my assessment of where our culture is at.
But there is this religious devotion to believing that we live in a racist culture.
So when they hear this, and as many people have pointed out, yourself included, the demand for racism is much higher than the supply.
So when they get a story like this, they can't resist it.
What's funny is that, so I have this here.
This was in Tom Wood's newsletter for today.
But so USA, USA Today ran an article immediately after this.
And the article's title was NASCAR Needs to Examine the Culture That Led to a Noose in Bubba Wallace's Garage.
And they're right.
The culture that found it is evangelical progressivism.
Yes, that's right.
It really is a, for ironic reasons, but it really is a fascinating title.
It's like, well, maybe we really do need to examine the culture.
Maybe we need to examine the culture that believed this obvious hoax was real.
And that's the culture that, you know, you guys.
Sorry, I got it.
I got to say, I'm a little confused.
And I'm going to be pedantic, but that's okay because everyone on the show listening to the show is out of the spectrum.
Is it a hoax or was it just a mistake?
Okay.
Well, yes, you're right.
That's a fair point to make.
It's not clear which one.
It was one of those two.
What I'm saying is, did he say it was a noose or who like, how did he say?
He said it was a noose and he's sticking by the claim that it was a noose.
So I think it does.
Now, unlike the Jesse Smollett situation, it is possible that this isn't a hoax.
It's possible that this Bubba guy was just wrong.
Although it kind of seems likely that it's a hoax because he is sticking to the claim that this was a noose.
Isn't it also the size like a Barbie doll?
I thought they said it's very small.
It's not the noose that could actually hold up a person's.
I just want to be clear.
Yes, that's what I believe.
I mean, the picture that I saw of it was kind of like a, it's not like a close-up.
It's like very far back.
So it was kind of hard to tell exactly what the size of it is.
But either way, it certainly was not a noose that was left there for this Bubba Wallace guy.
That's just, that's been disproven at this point.
One of the things that's that's strange to me that I see as a real difference between the left and the right in America today.
And that's due to the fact of where our culture is.
But it's really amazing to me that, say, like a left-wing kid on a college campus will take a position that is completely acceptable to the corporate press, to Hollywood, to the political establishment.
They'll repeat the exact narrative that we hear everywhere around us and still feel like they're on the side of the counterculture.
Still feel like they're kind of standing against the mainstream.
Do you know what the best example of this is?
You can look this up on YouTube.
Whoopi Goldberg hosted the Oscars many years ago.
I actually like Whippy a lot for two reasons.
She's had unorthodox leftist opinions.
She's a hardcore leftist.
And she's also very big on saying we need to have conservatives speak and hearing them out.
She's done Hannity.
She's done other things.
So a lot of people despise her.
But of that group, she's one of the best ones.
She hosted the Oscars and she gave up there, got up there, and she read basically the Democratic Party platform, save the earth and racism, like literally all the bumper stickers, one after another, like 50.
And she goes, and now that I'm done pissing off everybody, and the audience cheers.
The only thing that was like a little not hardcore left was I think she says choose life or like save life.
And you're sitting there and you're like, this is what they really perceive.
That by saying something like, all lives matter, or like Black Lives Matter, that people at home are being like, oh, oh no, I didn't watch a color television to get colors on it.
It's amazing what, because they're so insular and because conservatives for a long time have had to live in that culture and react to it and be on their playing field, they have no idea what the other perspective is.
Yeah, no, that's right.
And it's very, you know, like at least out of the right wing, like we're talking about kind of far left wingers.
And Whoopi Goldberg is a far leftist.
I mean, she's like, was, I mean, I don't know if she'd still stick by this, but she was defending the Soviet Union.
She was talking about time.
She had spent time.
I remember this back in the day on Bill Maher's show, where she had spent time in East Berlin before the wall fell and was talking about how wonderful it was.
And Bill Maher was like, well, wasn't it like a really terrible, oppressive society?
And she's like, no, I'm telling you, it wasn't.
I was there.
So she is a far left.
But at least on the far right wing in America, when they kind of have this air of like, well, we're saying the forbidden thing that's going to piss everybody off.
They are.
They are saying the forbidden thing that's going to piss everybody off.
Whereas there's something just infuriating to me about left, you know, some left-wing 20-year-old who's like, you know what?
I'm going to say it.
We live in a racist society.
And you're like, well, doesn't it at least, I don't know, don't you at least notice that every major corporation agrees with you?
Like, doesn't that at least take the anti-establishment wind out of yourselves?
But it really doesn't.
It doesn't seem to at all.
I'm going to out boomer con you.
Last time you went full boomer con, I'm going fuller boomer con.
I'm going full Candace Owens, baby.
It is very clear to me that in most of those situations like you say, that they're not being totally disingenuous.
They mean mom and dad.
They mean they left school as a normal or whatever adorable, maybe obnoxious 17-year-old.
I've made this point in other shows.
They come back as a swamp monster, swamp walrus with purple hair, and they're a horrible mess and insufferable, more so, at the dinner table.
And now, because they feel they're educated and they have facts, they're in a higher status position than ignorant mom and dad, and they're going to seek dominance.
And this is their mechanism to do that.
And the more obnoxious they are, the more they will perceive it as them speaking truth to power, as opposed to them just being obnoxious and insufferable.
And the college will feed them this.
They go, you're going to have a lot of pushback when you take a shit on the dinner table.
That's the question.
But I mean, it's basically the same thing.
You're going to have pushback when you're a total asshole at Thanksgiving dinner, but that's because of racism, not because you're an asshole.
Right.
Right.
Yeah.
It's, it's, yeah, it's, it's, it's a very.
If you know it's like, can you imagine they come home and they're like, um, oh, dad, I'm gender fluid.
And dad's like, what does that even mean?
My parents refuse to understand me.
It's that.
And also, you know, for like the vast majority of them, because there are people who are legitimately gender fluid, but for the vast majority of them, it is just complete bullshit.
It is just like some phase and it's the cool thing to do.
I actually loved.
It's a guy who can't pull off being a drag queen.
Yes, yes.
Well, I loved Paglia, who's just awesome.
I just love her stuff.
I love reading her and listening to her.
But what she said at one point that she said, for the vast majority of people who are transgender today, if they were alive in the 50s, they would have been a beatnik.
If they were alive in the 60s, they would have been a hippie.
And she kind of goes through all the time periods of what you would have done.
Like in the 70s, they would have been like into disco and like all these.
It's like you're, it's just the thing to do right now.
You know, she identifies herself as gender fluids, and that's what makes it interesting.
So it's just like, yeah, yeah.
That's the best part about it is that she's, she's just destroys all of their boxes.
Like she just blacks, which is part of the reason why she's like banished.
They just don't like people who, you know, like she's goad.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I guess the, you know, it's hard when there's all of these what I, you know, think as you, I think you accurately described as this kind of evangelical religious conviction that we live in a racist society and that there is systemic racism in this society.
And it is, it gets to the point where nobody seems to even care to establish the reason for believing that.
It's just like we're starting off with point one.
This is obviously true.
So now let's dissect everything with that lens.
And this is a big part of the reason why people do believe these stories when they first come out in the same sense that why Rolling Stone believed the UVA rape hoax because they're writing is a feminist who's writing the article and she looks at it.
Well, it's a given that we live in a rape culture.
It's a given that the vast majority of accusations are true.
So why would I do due diligence and why would I err on the side of being cautious?
It's like, well, obviously, this is, I know this is real.
If they didn't rape her, they raped somebody else.
Well, right.
That's the thinking.
Right.
And the thinking is, of course, also that whatever their bullshit numbers that they have, it's like one in four women are raped and only 2% of the accusations are false.
Now, these numbers are complete garbage, but that's what they believe.
And so obviously, it's a 98% chance that she's telling the truth.
Let's just go with it.
They don't even believe that one in four number.
And this is how they get over.
When I was a freshman in college, this is the mid-90s, a lifetime ago, a very long time ago, I read Christine Hoff Summer's book, Who Stole Feminism, right?
Which is a phenomenal book.
And she, so this is like before I even had the brainwashing start in college freshman year.
And in this book, she talks about there's this study that says that one in four women have been the victims of sexual assault.
Notice how all these words keep changing to make it easier.
And then she goes, you look at how it defines sexual assault.
Some of the things that it included, it had a survey is, have you been the target of unwelcome jokes?
So if you tell a woman, hey, you're a fat slut who likes sucking cock, you can say in a sense that's sexual assault.
It's certainly not nice.
It's certainly something I don't think women should have to deal with or men.
But then it becomes one in four.
And then one in four women are sexual assault.
It's like the game of telephone.
And then it becomes one in four women are the victim of rape because you hear sexual assault.
You think, wait, hold on, let me finish.
And then when we had this course where we had to sit down and be lectured at, and the woman said one in favor of sexual assault, I brought that up.
Very quickly becomes, it doesn't matter what the numbers, blah, blah, blah.
If it didn't matter, why'd you bring it up?
I think it doesn't matter if you bring it up.
Wouldn't that stand to reason?
Yeah, you would think so.
But no, of course that's right.
It goes, okay, one in four women are sexually assaulted.
Then it goes, one in four women are sexually assaulted or raped.
So they kind of group it together.
And then by the time someone passes it on, and then you have Jamie Kilstein, who is a friend of mine, and he's come back.
He's seen the light and is no longer the social justice warrior.
Sexual Assault Statistics Debate00:02:48
But I remember he's, yeah, he's back on team sane because he got in trouble, which is what happens to a lot of them.
But so he said, I remember on Rogan's podcast, and this is so infuriating.
This is the ultimate game of telephone.
So he goes, one in four women are raped, and that's only the ones that are reported.
Yeah, right.
So imagine, you're like, wait, what?
No.
This was never about reported.
Reported is like nothing even close to that.
This is a projection of the non-reported ones.
And it's not even rape.
But, you know, by the time the game of telephone is over, it's this crazy number.
No, look, this is, it's the worst, like science.
It's not a scientific survey.
It's complete bullshit.
They include all types of, actually, if you break down the numbers, you know, it's really funny.
There's been like three of these surveys where they've gotten numbers.
Like one came up with one in five, one came up with one in four.
And the one that came up with one in four came up with the number one in six for men.
So it's not even like men were one in six had been the victims of sexual assault or things like that.
Like 17% or something like that or so.
By the metrics that they're using, basically, you know, a huge percentage of the population of men and women have been.
So it's just, it's all just ridiculousness.
But when you believe this, now my favorite actually is the, which, you know, if you talk to hardcore feminists, they'll still use these numbers that it's the two, two percent, or sometimes it goes from two to six percent is the number of women who are lying when they accuse someone of rape, which is like right away so easy to just go, how would you possibly know that number?
And how would a woman know how to do math anyway to begin with?
Well, that's another number.
Yeah, that's another number.
I guess maybe they have the Asian women, Asian feminists.
Yeah, so two to six percent of women can understand numbers is actually the correct thing.
I'm going to say one more thing.
I know a couple of people who've been raped.
And a lot of times, and not a lot of times, sometimes, this is just anecdotal, but they don't want it to be political.
If you have been the victim of gray rape, which is a thing, I think, and violent rape, first of all, you don't want to talk about it because what's going to happen?
I can't get unraped.
So that's very unfortunate right there.
And two is I don't want someone to think that I think this has political consequences.
Something really awful happened to me.
I was violated as a human being.
It was very traumatic.
I don't think something that happens to me is necessarily a consequence for the entire culture.
I don't want to be the kind of person who says, as a rape survivor, we need socialized healthcare.
It's like, that's not logic.
That's you invoking something horrible that happened to you and exploiting that to further your agenda.
And that's really not kosher.
CBD Dreams and Systemic Racism00:02:33
Yeah.
Yeah, no, I've known rape victims before who also didn't want to make it their identity.
Yeah.
For their entire life.
Like, I'm a survivor.
Like, you're a person and something terrible happened to you, but it's not, you know, like, I've, like, I've obviously not nearly as horrible as being raped, but I've been mugged before.
And I would never want my identity to be that I was mugged.
Like the rest of my life, I survived mugging.
I've, as a, I have someone who survived having a gun put to their head.
I blah, blah, blah.
It's like, no, this was a fucked up thing that happened to me.
And I, you know, I'm over it and I'd like to move on with my life.
But anyway, back to the point we were making about this: it is a belief with which cannot be contested that we live in a racist society with systematic racism.
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Political Correctness and Trolling00:16:03
I got to say, it's been, it's bothered me even hearing the libertarian candidates for president, Joe Jorgensen, and her VP, Spike Cohen, talking about tweeting about systemic racism and all of these things.
And I just wonder, I'm like, can somebody, I'm not even against the idea of saying that maybe there is some systemic racism, but someone's going to need to like coherently explain this to me.
Like, what exactly is systemic, what about the system is racist in our society today?
Because I got to say, the way I'm looking at it is like this.
I think there certainly are racist people out there.
As I've said, me and you have talked about before.
Racism is an incredibly broad word that can cover a large area of, you know, of a large area of behavior and some not even behavior, just kind of thoughts and ideas.
And I got to say, I really don't think we're such a racist society.
Yeah, there are some racist people out there.
I think in general, it's pretty tame.
It's people have views about groups of people.
I think black people, if you go into the average black family and you ask them, what are Chinese people like?
What are white people like?
What are Indian people like?
Yeah, they may have some views that are politically incorrect.
I think the same is true in a white family, in an Indian family, in an Asian family, but it's pretty tame.
As a society, we pretty much tend to get along, peacefully, coexist.
There isn't a lot of racially based violence.
There is violence in our society, but not too much, not to such a crazy level.
But the truth is, if I'm being completely honest, and maybe I'm guilty of wrong think on this, but if you really look at the racially based violence, most of it is not white people on black people.
If you really look at most of the racist policies that are codified by law, like where it's legal to discriminate and illegal to discriminate, it's all targeted against white people, Asian people, Jewish people.
None of it is targeted against black people and Hispanic people.
Are there policies that have disproportionately negatively impacted black and brown areas?
Sure, I would agree with that.
But I don't know if describing that as systematic racism is accurate.
What do you think about all that?
There are certain words that people use and have been trained to use, and that training is reinforced on a daily basis, which are used as shorthands for both thought, so that they don't have to question certain things, and discussion.
And they're basically used in a magical sense.
I'm not using that word loosely, meaning you throw out this spell, and that immediately everything that follows suit within that context has some grain of truth with it.
And if someone challenges the spell, well, you can read them out of reality.
And systemic racism is one of those things because the way that they toggle back and forth between the phrase racism exists in America and racism is pervasive in America and racism is universal as America.
And as if those three terms are not, they treat them as if they're cognitively identical.
And to prove the first is to have established the third.
Now, whether it's true or false, just from a logical point of view, if I say to you, this thing exists in Dave's house, to say that I have established even a little bit that this thing has filled up Dave's house is deranged and it does not pass the sniff test at all.
But when it comes to things like this, it goes very easily from this thing exists, which is extremely easy to prove, to this thing is everywhere and is a driving force.
And I think this is one of the reasons I really hate the boomer cons when they start talking about, you know, Democrats are the real racist party of the KKK.
It's like, this has been a cudgel.
I've said this before, that they have used with less and less efficacy because at a certain point, someone's like, all right, everything I like is racist.
Like, I can't watch this movie.
Like, you know, this gone with the wind now.
It's like, come on.
Then the concerns are like, no, no, no, they're the real ones.
It's like, how about this is a tool that has no real cognitive content and you should not reward it by validating it.
You know, it's like if you have an ex-girlfriend and she's like, who are you talking to in the phone?
It was like, what difference does it make?
Well, it was my friend from college.
What did you guys talk about?
What was she wearing, blah, blah.
It's like, that's not the road you want to go down if this is someone who there's nothing going on.
It's just going to encourage her next time to feel comfortable giving you third degree, whatever degree it is.
Sorry, English is my second language.
Well, yeah, and I think that I agree with that.
And I think that it just kind of misses the point if you're going to, you know, try to wrestle the left's weapon away from them and use it on them.
And the more accurate assessment of our culture is that, like, well, okay, look, yeah, there's prejudice out there.
There's tribalism.
This is part of the human condition.
And if you really look around the world and look at the state of where we are versus most people and look at our past, the state of where we are versus our past, really, it's not that big of a problem.
And I'm not saying that, obviously, I think there's problems with the police.
That's not what I'm saying at all.
But in terms of the problem of just like hatred of different groups because of their genetic makeup, I really don't think it's that pervasive in America.
I think it's getting worse.
I think it's being pushed in that direction by a lot of powerful organizations.
But I also think that this was a problem that the alt-right had and that they were unable to adapt to.
And it's part of the reason why they have lost, I don't know, pretty much all of their steam that they had over the last few years is that actually, like the big problem with unite the right wasn't, you know, it didn't need, and Tifa didn't even need to show up.
You were never going to unite the right in America with people marching with swastika flags.
No.
Sorry, I lost your volume.
I'm going to go full Alex Jones with the swastika thing.
Sure.
So this is from Gavin.
I was there.
There was one guy with that swastika flag.
The swastika flag had just been brand new because you could still see the creases.
And Gavin had this whole thing on his show about how he, and I believe this part, how he had looked for a swastika flag and they're not easy to find.
Like you can't just go on Amazon and they're illegal in many European countries.
And Gavin's like, I don't believe this guy.
I think this guy was a plant.
Well, that's quite possible.
And I've never, I'm not one of these false flag types.
You can go back and look at my record.
I saw something I say loosely.
So they were not, now they were chanting, Jews shall not replace us.
And there was Nazi imagery on the flyer.
I'm only talking specifically about that's a fair point.
And yeah, I'm open to that.
That does, that's quite possible.
But regardless of that, even just with the under the banner of white nationalism or whatever they would call it, this isn't going to unite that many people.
And, you know, it's funny because Tucker Carlson on his show, who gets, you know, accused of being, you know, favorable to the alt-right.
And many people on the alt-right, I think, actually project onto him.
Yes.
Same way what happens with Trump or what happens with Obama, where people just project stuff that they never really said.
And in many cases, actually said the exact opposite of, but they still project like, oh, he's really with us.
I remember one time, Bill Maher saying that he believes Obama is an atheist and he just, he won't say it for political reasons and all this.
And you're like, I mean, he's okay, but this is the opposite of everything he says.
But they'll say, you know, Tucker Carlson will be like, racial-based identity politics is horrible.
You should never judge anybody based on their race.
It's evil.
He goes, this is why I hate the left because this is all they do.
And then like, you'll have these like white nationalists who are like, Dr. Carlson's one of us, man.
Like, and you're like, did you hear what he said?
I don't think he is one of you.
But you and I get this too.
Like, if someone likes us and we stray a bit, it's either, oh, he's only saying that because of this.
So when I'm saying the stuff that you like, I'm being honest.
But when I'm saying the stuff you don't like, I'm either controlled opposition or a phony or, oh, I don't really mean it.
He's just saying this for dubious purpose.
They want to maintain their relationship with this imaginary person that we are.
This is one of my favorite things that I've gotten from a few different people who are like, it'll be like, I used to be a huge fan of Dave Smith, but now he just says whatever he can to appease his right-wing audience because he's scared to piss off his audience.
So I don't listen to him anymore.
You're like, well, if I'm scared to piss off my audience, but I've taken positions that have pissed you off so much that you're not listening anymore, doesn't that fuck with you a little bit?
Like, isn't there a problem there with that logic?
Maybe I just believe something that you don't believe.
The one I get is like, oh, he's just saying that to be trolling.
I'm like, no, no, I, I, I, sometimes that's true, but if I'm asked and I say, no, I'm not trolling, I'm not like double trolling.
Like, if I'm saying I'm not trolling, I'm not trolling.
Yes, yes.
And I've like, it's a, it's a funny thing to the accusation that people, because I have gotten this from several different people that I'm just, and I know Tom Woods got this accusation too from both of us got it from Nick Sarwak, the chair of the LP, where he says, he goes, they're just, he said, Tom and Dave are just afraid to piss off their right-wing audience.
So they won't say anything that goes against them.
And it's like, well, first of all, so do you listen to all of my shows?
Because it seems like you would have to listen to everything I say to make the claim that I never say anything that could piss these guys off.
And second of all, you would quite literally have to be a mind reader to know that that's why I'm saying you're not, you know, my motives for why I am disingenuously making this case.
We know he's a white supremacist because of how little he talks about it.
Right.
Right.
So the fact that you don't discuss it is proof that you feel it strongly, but are censoring yourself.
That's the logic.
Yes.
So we talk about all the time your white supremacists.
You never talk about it.
That's even more proof.
Yes, yes.
Well, I did.
Okay.
So, oh, by the way, I should, I want to officially, I will say I apologize because I think on one of our recent episodes, we talked about Thaddeus Russell's stance on white nationalism.
And maybe I misremembered it or got it wrong to some degree, but he posted a clip of him talking about white nationalism with Hotep Jesus, Hotep Jesus.
Jesus.
They were, yeah, no, I know.
It was a really great podcast, by the way.
I recommend people go listen.
And I thought he made really great points on there.
And he had the exact, in my opinion, like the exact right take on it, not right way, right, correct take on it.
But I do remember him saying, and this one I'm right about, when I was on his podcast with Nick Gillespie, that he was saying that like the Mises Institute guys don't like to talk about race.
And I said, why don't we pull up Mises.org right now and just put racism into the search bar and see what came up.
And we didn't do it live on the show, but I did it later.
And like thousands of things came up.
And it's all about how like, you know, the state intervention has made the race problem worse, that a market would solve so many of these problems.
I mean, but it's not as if they're not talking about it, but sometimes people just get accused of not talking about it.
I don't know.
Anyway, the point I was making in general in this is that I really do think that obviously, I mean, I'm an anarchist.
I am against the government.
I think government policies have made things a lot worse.
And I'd like to repeal, reduce, shrink, eliminate as much of it as possible.
Reasonably.
Over time, moderately.
I've got a penny plan that I want to run by you after this.
It's an eight-point plan.
An eight-point plan.
But so while there are policies that have disproportionately hurt different groups, and this happens all over the place, and I, truthfully speaking, I think there's policies that have hurt just about every group.
I don't think that there is systemic racism in the country.
I don't think generally speaking, and again, this is like I said before, comparing, like, do we have a rape culture or not?
This is kind of unprovable.
But in general, I say no, we don't really have a culture that promotes rape.
I don't really think we have a racist culture.
I think in general, as far as the history of the world and tribal conflicts, we're actually doing remarkably well.
And maybe this is somewhat colored by my experience having a Jewish grandfather of German descent who really lived in a culture that was very hostile to his group.
I just don't really see it being that bad.
What do you think?
I think we do have systemic racism in this country.
I hate that to say that means that we live in a lynch culture.
If you look at blacks in America versus Irish people in America, Irish people are seamlessly integrated.
And a lot of that is a function of the color of your skin.
Jim Goad made this point that one of the reasons black people are picked to be slaves over the Irish is you could spot them in a crowd.
It's a lot easier to be like, okay, these are who to different based just visually.
I do not think, and there's many reasons for this, and it's complicated.
And of course, anytime race gets complicated, people void their bowels.
I don't think black people are as systemically integrated into American culture, often by choice, sometimes by choice, as say Irish people and other population groups.
There are differences.
For example, the fetishization of black people, the fact that it was exciting that we elected a black person as America is like, oh my God, wow.
I don't think it would be as exciting if another Catholic person or a Jewish person were elected president, like at Bernie Sanders.
Now, it wasn't a thing like, oh, he's Jewish, blah, blah, blah.
And I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but I'm saying there is some sort of divide.
And you could call that, in a sense, systemic racism, that there is some kind of discrepancy.
Okay.
Okay, but I guess the issue for me there would be that much of that is voluntary and not coercive.
Correct.
So it's kind of like an individual, you know, it's like the decisions individuals make.
I guess maybe my issue is that the Libertarian Party talking about systemic racism, and it's like, well, what libertarians are supposed to kind of stand for is being against coercion and being against, you know, and to me, it seems like all of the state-backed laws regarding race seem to all be going in the other direction.
I mean, there's like, I mean, if you want to talk about systemic racism, look at the Asians who were suing Harvard.
I mean, look at like there really are like these systemic policies that fuck over, you know, like, I mean, like, can you imagine if there were policies, like the affirmative action type policies against black people?
Like if they were saying like, oh, you beat this white guy on a test, well, we're still going to let him into the school or into the job over you.
I mean, the Libertarian Party would rightfully be outraged about this, but they don't seem to be outraged when it's happening to white people.
Libertarian Parties and History00:04:48
And that seems to me to reek of like pandering to the dominant ideology.
Which is not a bad strategy necessarily if you're trying to get votes.
It's not the party of principle, which they were touted by themselves as being for a long time.
But if I am trying to get attention and votes, there's two broad ways to do it.
Pandering, right?
And maybe I'm going to get some of the foam that spills off.
Or counterculture being like the main culture is terrible, blah, blah, blah.
We're the only real choice.
You saw this happen in Germany in the last year before coronavirus hit, where you had for many years, neither for ever since World War II, West Germany, and then all of Germany, you had Germany had a two-party system, basically.
You had the Christian Democrats, which was Angela Merkel, and the Social Democrats, which were like the left, right?
Then you had like a couple of fringe parties like the Free Democrats, which were broadly speaking libertarian, but more like a Mitt Romney business party.
I'm not taking it.
Oh, they were yellow.
Yeah.
Go on.
But for in as the governing coalition in many countries in Europe have fallen apart and here to some extent too, neither of those two parties, I think since the like 2000 roughly or 97, were able to get a majority in the United States.
So what that meant is they had to form a grand coalition.
It would be as if the Republicans and Democrats shared, like they did in the Senate when it was 50-50.
And as a result, there was no real opposition party because the main opposition party was now part of government.
So the AFD, alternative for Deutschland, which is a nationalist party, which does have some Nazi sympathies with some of its members, unfortunately, they were like, look, we're the only party here who's giving you an opposing choice.
And that gave them a lot of big bouts in the polls for a very long time.
So that's one approach.
But the other approach is like, yeah, like me too, but you can vote for me without having to feel embarrassed for voting for Joe Biden.
Right.
Right.
Yeah.
All right.
Well, I guess that's the.
And you know what?
The Libertarian Party and the Libertarian Party is also a lot better than Joe Biden when it comes to criminal justice.
So if you're a black person who wants to vote for someone who's for freedom in their sense, but doesn't want to vote for the guy who put dad in jail, I'm your gal.
Yeah.
All right.
Yeah.
I guess I guess it could be worse.
It could be worse than that.
I think you're looking at them.
I think you're getting hung up on the word libertarian.
Well, that's right.
I am.
But that's what I, you know, that word is in there.
Yeah.
You know, it's, they do use that word and they do claim to be the party of principle.
So that's.
Do they still use that expression?
They sure do.
No, do they really?
Yes, they absolutely do.
The party of principle.
That's still what they claim to be.
And so that's what I, you know, that's fair then.
I'm just, I just don't like the false advertising.
Like, I'd have no problem if you were just like, we're, you know, whatever, the third party just call themselves the third party and be like, okay, well, that's the third party.
And then I, you know, I think I would actually be kinder to them.
I'd be like, well, they're better than the other two parties.
And, you know, the sane alternative.
The sane alternative party would be, would be fine, but you use my word, which is becoming more and more not my word.
And I'm not going to give up other words.
We're not giving up this one too.
Well, that's it.
That's the weird thing where there's, because there is an argument.
Hoppe gave a speech about this recently where he said that the term libertarian is almost lost.
I don't think that's true at all.
But he was basically saying, he was saying that he kind of went through the history of the word liberal and how that got lost.
Yes.
And I think we would both agree that word is lost.
In America.
In America, yes.
And he said that the Libertarian Party, or he said the libertarian movement basically started as, you know, like Murray Rothbard and 12 people in his living room.
And like even like when Ayan Rand criticized libertarianism, she was accurately at the time criticizing Murray Rothbard and the 12 people in his living room.
She was like, that's what libertarian is.
Yeah.
Murray Rothbard and these things.
They're these anarchists who take, you know, try to pervert my ideology with some left-wing crap.
Like that was her take on it.
And she goes, and Hoppe goes, and libertarianism came to a point where the libertarian nominee, he was talking about Gary Johnson, didn't even know who Murray Rothbard was.
Wait, which is joking?
No, that's true.
No, no, no, you're joking.
Okay, there's an interview.
This was back in around 2012 where Gary Johnson was being interviewed and someone asked him what his thoughts on Rothbard were.
And he kind of just starts bullshitting.
And like, he was like, yeah, you know, I think the Federal Reserve is a problem and blah, blah.
And then he goes, yeah, yeah, but what about Rothbard?
Like, have you, have you read, you know, For a New Liberty or blah, blah, blah.
And he goes, I'm going to have to confess I don't know who that is.
And he did not know who Murray Rothbard was.
Rothbard and the Libertarian Movement00:01:37
Unaware.
That's the intellectual depth of Gary Johnson a defense because I thought, look, he was elected governor twice.
As far as governors go, he did a good job.
You know, he was an outsider, blah, blah.
Sure, he had a brain drive for Lepo.
Sure, he's a mess, but his heart's in the right place.
And he's not, I mean, gun to head, this guy would be pretty decent in terms of governing and things his positions were.
I did not realize it had sunk that low.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So that's where, but I'll tell you that there, there's a lot of people out there who use the word libertarian who I'm almost like, fuck.
Like, if you're a libertarian, I don't even know that I want this word.
But what keeps me in it is that the good libertarians, from my perspective, are the ones with the bigger followings.
And so I'm like, okay, so there are a lot more of us than there are of the energy and the excitement.
Yes.
I'm almost surprised sometimes that they don't abandon the word.
Because if I, you know, if I had 300 followers on Twitter and the people who make me embarrassed to use the term had 60,000, 100,000, all this, I'd be like, well, this is a lost cause.
What am I even doing here anymore?
But, you know, that's not the case.
But then they get to feel David versus Goliath, right?
Because then you're the big, powerful libertarian.
I'm speaking truth to power.
Dave Smith basically being the Fed.
And I'm just out here just trying to do one man's job denying the Holocaust.
That's all I'm trying to do.
Just trying to have a nuanced conversation about Holocaust denial.
All right, listen, we're over time and I know Brian has another show that he's got to run to.
So we're going to wrap up.
Always, always a fun time doing these crossover episodes.