Part Of The Problem - Dave Smith - Am I A Fake Libertarian ?
Aired: 2020-01-14
Duration: 01:25:08


=== Roll Back The State (02:34) ===

[00:00:00]  Fill her up!
[00:00:02]  You are listening to the Gash Digital Network.
[00:00:07]  We need to roll back the state.
[00:00:09]  We spy on all of our own citizens.
[00:00:11]  Our prisons are flooded with nonviolent drug offenders.
[00:00:15]  If you want to know who America's next enemy is, look at who we're funding right now.
[00:00:20]  Every single one of these problems are a result of government being way too big.
[00:00:25]  You're listening to part of the problem on the Gash Digital Network.
[00:00:29]  Dear your host, James Smith.
[00:00:33]  What's up, everybody?
[00:00:34]  Welcome to a brand new episode of Part of the Problem.
[00:00:38]  I am, of course, the most consistent motherfucker you know, Dave Smith.
[00:00:42]  Joined as always by the king of the cocks, Robbie the Fire Bernstein.
[00:00:47]  What's going on, brother?
[00:00:48]  How are you?
[00:00:48]  I'm just a nice weekend.
[00:00:50]  I relaxed a whole bunch.
[00:00:51]  Yeah, I really got my relaxation on.
[00:00:53]  I had a good weekend, too.
[00:00:54]  Did you?
[00:00:55]  You just relaxed?
[00:00:57]  No, I did a couple open mics and I came here on Sunday, got a little work done.
[00:01:02]  I did some exercise, but I definitely slept in.
[00:01:05]  I relaxed.
[00:01:05]  I put my feet up.
[00:01:06]  I ate some cookies.
[00:01:07]  Sleeping in.
[00:01:08]  Yeah.
[00:01:09]  I remember.
[00:01:10]  I remember what that was like.
[00:01:11]  It feels like a previous lifetime.
[00:01:13]  Oh, man.
[00:01:14]  When Lauren was pregnant, we used to sleep in so much.
[00:01:17]  Yeah.
[00:01:17]  Oh, I was just pregnant with her for those nine months.
[00:01:20]  I just ate like shit.
[00:01:21]  She was my fucking dog back then.
[00:01:23]  I'd just be like, hey, you want to just like order chirp and chicken and watch a movie?
[00:01:27]  And she's like, absolutely.
[00:01:28]  And then as soon as she had the baby, she's like, we're not eating chirp and chicken.
[00:01:32]  We're getting a salad.
[00:01:33]  And I was like, I guess I'll have a salad too.
[00:01:35]  I like a lazy broad.
[00:01:37]  Someone who just wants to stay.
[00:01:38]  She's never been lazy a day in her life, but during pregnancy, that's when that was the only window where she was ever down to just be like, all right, let's just eat.
[00:01:46]  Let's hang out.
[00:01:47]  Let's relax.
[00:01:49]  You know, she had a really good excuse.
[00:01:50]  I had no reason to be doing it.
[00:01:52]  But anyway, for today's show, we got a little bit different of a format today.
[00:01:57]  We have a guest who's going to be coming in in a little bit.
[00:02:00]  John Hudak, who's one of the people who runs the Faker Tarian Facebook page.
[00:02:06]  They had been criticizing me a little bit, and then I was criticizing them on the last episode.
[00:02:14]  And then I thought maybe I'd invite him on.
[00:02:17]  We could kind of discuss this.
[00:02:19]  And, you know, maybe work it out.
[00:02:21]  Maybe not.
[00:02:22]  But I thought maybe this would be a good conversation, be some good podcasting.
[00:02:25]  So we're going to bring him in in about a half hour.
[00:02:29]  Just a few things we were going to talk about before we get to that.
[00:02:33]  So that's going to be today's show.
[00:02:34]  Bring the beef live on air.

=== Opera House Drama (07:42) ===

[00:02:35]  That's right.
[00:02:36]  Why not?
[00:02:36]  Leave it to other people to just Twitter scrawl.
[00:02:39]  Well, you know, and sometimes, you never know how these things go.
[00:02:41]  Sometimes when people like fucking by the end of it.
[00:02:45]  It's possible.
[00:02:46]  This could end in butt sex.
[00:02:47]  He's not in the studio, so it would be very difficult.
[00:02:50]  You know, the logistics would be hard.
[00:02:52]  I've jerked off on a cam before.
[00:02:54]  We can work it out.
[00:02:54]  Oh, Rob's jerked off on many a cam before.
[00:02:57]  That's why you'll never see Rob running for office.
[00:03:00]  All that stuff could come out someday.
[00:03:02]  And hopefully it will.
[00:03:04]  We'd be a better nation for it.
[00:03:05]  I've always been there for the laughs, you know?
[00:03:07]  I know you have.
[00:03:08]  I know you have, buddy.
[00:03:10]  So I went to the opera this weekend.
[00:03:14]  Speaking of butt stuff.
[00:03:14]  You were literally just advocating we jerk off into a webcam.
[00:03:17]  Is that scary for you?
[00:03:18]  Somehow it is.
[00:03:19]  I get it.
[00:03:20]  I got to say, so I've never been to the opera before in my life.
[00:03:23]  I feel like such an adult.
[00:03:24]  Best place to tailor on those steps, going up to the Met.
[00:03:28]  Get some burgers and dogs going.
[00:03:30]  Yeah, all right.
[00:03:31]  None of that happened.
[00:03:32]  That's not really the scene at the Metropolitan Opera House.
[00:03:36]  But no, so I've never been to the opera before.
[00:03:39]  My wife, Lauren, really wanted to go to this opera, La Boheme, which is like the most famous opera in the world.
[00:03:46]  Jersey from a trucker dad?
[00:03:48]  Well, no, her stepfather is a trucker, but she's Italian.
[00:03:52]  It's an Italian opera.
[00:03:53]  It's like, it's in that movie Moonstruck.
[00:03:56]  She loves the idea of going to this.
[00:03:58]  Anyway, I've never been to an opera before in my life.
[00:04:00]  I went to, I've never actually never been to the Metropolitan Theater before.
[00:04:06]  You switched spaghetti when you were there?
[00:04:08]  No, none of that.
[00:04:09]  But holy shit, was it good?
[00:04:13]  I mean, like, I feel like such an adult saying this.
[00:04:15]  I can't even believe.
[00:04:16]  I thought I might just hate this and I was just doing it for my wife, but it was phenomenal.
[00:04:21]  I think you just don't get out enough.
[00:04:22]  And so you're actually out of your house doing something and blow your mind.
[00:04:26]  I'm out.
[00:04:26]  My whole, all my work is going out.
[00:04:29]  You know what I mean?
[00:04:30]  So I'm out, but in a very low-class, you know, atmosphere, a comedy club, a podcast studio.
[00:04:38]  This was, listen, let me say, the Metropolitan Opera House Theater is the most beautiful theater I've ever been in in my life.
[00:04:46]  It's fucking incredible.
[00:04:48]  Like, just when you walk into it, you're like, holy shit, this is a beautiful theater.
[00:04:51]  Then the orchestra is the Philharmonic New York Orchestra.
[00:04:56]  Just incredible.
[00:04:58]  And there's some, it's all of it mixed together.
[00:05:01]  It was like the theater, the orchestra, and when some of those opera singers hit like their crazy opera notes, I was literally getting goosebumps.
[00:05:10]  It was just, it was really fucking incredible.
[00:05:13]  Not something I'd want to do every week, but, you know, an occasional thing.
[00:05:17]  But goddamn, I must say I loved it.
[00:05:20]  Maybe I really am.
[00:05:20]  Let me answer the question from the last show.
[00:05:22]  Maybe I am a right-winger.
[00:05:23]  I don't know.
[00:05:23]  The more I'm thinking about it now, I might really be a conservative right-winger.
[00:05:29]  But also, it's fun.
[00:05:31]  It's just fun.
[00:05:31]  We got like fucking dressed up.
[00:05:33]  We went to the T's.
[00:05:35]  You enjoy dressing up.
[00:05:36]  Well, wife was smoke show status.
[00:05:38]  She's just gorgeous.
[00:05:40]  Got a nice suit and tie on.
[00:05:41]  Really?
[00:05:42]  Fucking looking good.
[00:05:42]  I don't regularly enjoy it, but I did in that capacity.
[00:05:47]  It was pretty cool.
[00:05:47]  By the way, got recognized by several part of the problem fans while we were at the opera.
[00:05:53]  I have a really weird range of appeal.
[00:05:56]  I could literally, if you went to a fucking strip club or an opera house, there's a decent chance some people who listen to one of my podcasts are going to be there.
[00:06:06]  Anyway, what were you going to say?
[00:06:08]  This whole thing is just wild to me.
[00:06:09]  I went once, I think three years ago with my grandmother, and I was very upset because there were no fat people in the opera.
[00:06:16]  If I go to the opera, I want to see a big, fat, fatso hitting some like robust low nuts.
[00:06:22]  No, no nuts.
[00:06:23]  You know what?
[00:06:23]  It's a good point.
[00:06:24]  No, they're all skinny.
[00:06:24]  They were all pretty thin.
[00:06:25]  They're all pretty and thin.
[00:06:26]  That's not what I want to see.
[00:06:27]  I go to the opera.
[00:06:28]  I want to see a big, fat, fatso.
[00:06:29]  How come no left wing advocate has taken on this struggle?
[00:06:33]  When did the fat people start getting displaced from the opera?
[00:06:37]  Now, unlike Dave, I just want to make clear I'm not gay, so I have no interest in the opera.
[00:06:41]  But if I'm going to.
[00:06:42]  Well, no, of course.
[00:06:42]  I mean, I went with my wife.
[00:06:43]  You went with your grandmother, like a good straight man.
[00:06:47]  But if I'm going to the opera, I want to see some big, fat, fatsosos whaling away.
[00:06:51]  Yeah.
[00:06:51]  And I didn't get that.
[00:06:54]  You went to the Met?
[00:06:55]  Yeah, I went to the old Do you remember what show you saw?
[00:06:57]  I think Aida.
[00:06:58]  Is that an opera?
[00:06:59]  I might not even make it up that that's an opera.
[00:07:01]  I don't know.
[00:07:02]  I like that.
[00:07:03]  I just went, what show?
[00:07:04]  And then I realized right after I asked it that the only show I know is the one that I saw yesterday.
[00:07:09]  Like, now I just feel like I'm fucking.
[00:07:12]  Oh, was it La Boem or was it one of the other operas?
[00:07:15]  There's something great about drinking in those settings where you feel like less of an alcoholic.
[00:07:18]  Like it could be 10 a.m. and you're getting a double, but there's something about the fucking opera, bro.
[00:07:24]  Were you going to call me an alcoholic at the goddamn opera?
[00:07:27]  Yeah.
[00:07:27]  Yeah.
[00:07:27]  No, real classy.
[00:07:29]  Felt very good about myself.
[00:07:30]  It was, no, but it was, it really was fucking fun, man.
[00:07:33]  I thought it was just so incredible.
[00:07:35]  Like it really, I was, you know, I was saying, we were talking about it before, and I was almost comparing it to like, if you're not into gymnastics, which I'm not, but you went to like the Olympics and you have like good seats and you're just watching someone do these like crazy flips and you're just kind of like, holy shit, it's insane that a person can do that.
[00:07:55]  And that's kind of how I felt.
[00:07:56]  Like I just, even not really knowing or being a fan of it, I was just blown away by the amount of talent.
[00:08:03]  Like when you're in this beautiful theater and this incredible orchestra is playing and some opera singer are hitting those crazy opera notes and like the fucking the whole set design is insane.
[00:08:13]  It's just like all of it together.
[00:08:15]  You're like the insane amount of talent that you're, you know, and creativity and performance that you're watching.
[00:08:22]  And you realize, you know, Western civilization is too good for us.
[00:08:26]  Our generation, we don't deserve it.
[00:08:29]  We were born into this thing.
[00:08:31]  We have not been pulling our weight.
[00:08:32]  What are we producing?
[00:08:33]  Did you even put together what the story was of the opera?
[00:08:36]  Yeah, so they have like a little, they have like a little box in front of you that runs like subtitles so that you can kind of follow the story.
[00:08:46]  And I read up a little bit on it before we went, so I kind of knew what the story was.
[00:08:51]  So yeah, more or less I found it.
[00:08:52]  It's about these like poor Parisian artists in like, I think 1820 or 1830 in Paris.
[00:09:01]  And so it's like post-French Revolution.
[00:09:05]  And I guess like the artists were like supported by the aristocrats, but they've all been overthrown.
[00:09:13]  So the artists are all starving now and they have to rely on like the bourgeoisie to fucking patronize them.
[00:09:21]  And so they're really like, so they're all starving.
[00:09:24]  And then it's like a love story and the woman gets sick.
[00:09:27]  And I don't want to spoil it, but it all works out well.
[00:09:31]  No tragedy involved.
[00:09:33]  Go see it.
[00:09:35]  But yeah, but it's really, it was an interesting story.
[00:09:37]  And the whole thing is just, I don't know.
[00:09:39]  It was really impressive.
[00:09:40]  It's a fun day.
[00:09:41]  Anyway, go get married.
[00:09:42]  Go get married to a beautiful woman and take her to the opera.
[00:09:44]  That's my advice for young men out there.
[00:09:48]  Do you seriously?
[00:09:49]  For the young homosexual men out there, that's my advice.
[00:09:51]  Do you like opera enough that you could see yourself like scheduling a vacation that revolved around being able to go to a famous opera house?
[00:09:58]  Like I think Paris has a big one.
[00:10:01]  No, I mean, if we were going to Paris, I could see doing an opera while we're there.
[00:10:06]  I'm not going to go to Paris because of that.
[00:10:09]  But if you booked your flight to Paris, you'd be like, all right, we're in Paris.
[00:10:12]  We should probably try and see if we can check out the opera house.
[00:10:15]  Like that would be on your list of things that you should do while you're there.

=== Paris Trip Plans (06:46) ===

[00:10:18]  Sure, maybe.
[00:10:19]  Yeah, maybe.
[00:10:20]  I think it's been domesticated, buddy.
[00:10:22]  No, listen, that's just obvious fact.
[00:10:26]  I have been.
[00:10:26]  I have been domesticated pretty intensely, but I'm happy with it.
[00:10:30]  I'm an indoor cat these days.
[00:10:32]  That's what I, that's what I say to my wife.
[00:10:34]  I go, I was an alley cat.
[00:10:36]  I was out there fighting in the alleys.
[00:10:37]  What'd you do?
[00:10:38]  And, you know, there's probably still salvation for the other guys who are out there.
[00:10:43]  I'm going to put together a New York City sandwich tour.
[00:10:45]  And for the price of one opera ticket, like we could spend every Saturday together with you buying me sandwiches easily.
[00:10:51]  Like we could probably do three months.
[00:10:53]  There's a whole lot of sandwiches for the price of one opera.
[00:10:56]  I will pack together so much more entertainment into your Saturdays than that dumb opera.
[00:11:00]  Hit me up, robsnewsroom at gmail.com.
[00:11:03]  I'll start putting together days on your budget.
[00:11:05]  Let's do it.
[00:11:07]  All right, guys, today's show is brought to you by stamps.com.
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[00:12:29]  All right, let's get back into the show.
[00:12:31]  So there are a few things that I want to talk about before we bring our guest in that kind of caught my eye in the news yesterday and today.
[00:12:41]  So one of the things that's really crazy, and I'm pretty interested to see this whole fucking dynamic play out.
[00:12:47]  And I know there's a lot of libertarians out there who aren't like super interested in politics, but my God, this shit fascinates me.
[00:12:54]  But so we're like a few weeks out from the Iowa primary.
[00:12:59]  Right now, according to the latest polls, Bernie Sanders is leading the field.
[00:13:03]  Looks like there's a very strong chance that he's going to win Iowa.
[00:13:07]  He's also, I think, within one point, basically within a statistical error of leading in New Hampshire.
[00:13:15]  So it is quite possible that despite Bernie Sanders' best efforts, he's going to end up winning Iowa and New Hampshire.
[00:13:24]  And if that does happen, there's going to have to be, like, if you were taking, you know, odds of who the favorite to win this thing is, there's going to have to be a realignment where he becomes the odds-on favorite.
[00:13:38]  I mean, if this happens, Elizabeth Warren is going to fold.
[00:13:43]  And what, I mean, what percentage of her support is going to go to Bernie?
[00:13:46]  I don't know, but it's got to be a huge chunk of it.
[00:13:49]  You know, a huge, huge chunk of it.
[00:13:50]  Except for the ones that really wanted an Indian.
[00:13:53]  Yeah, well, those people.
[00:13:54]  Bernie's 0% Indian.
[00:13:57]  That is true.
[00:13:58]  Which is basically, again, a statistical tie with Elizabeth Warren.
[00:14:02]  But it does seem like this is going to be the dynamic of like, this is what it's going to all be about.
[00:14:10]  When Elizabeth Warren and Buttigeg have to fold, what split of their supporters go to Biden or Bernie Sanders?
[00:14:18]  Because right now, it really seems like it's Biden and Bernie Sanders are the only ones who have a shot, like a legitimate shot to win this thing.
[00:14:25]  And that is just a very interesting, you know, question about what direction the Democratic Party is going in.
[00:14:36]  Who are they going to throw up against Donald Trump?
[00:14:39]  Is it going to be the establishment return to normalcy, fucking, you know, Joe Biden?
[00:14:47]  Or is it going to be the populist fucking, you know, Democratic socialist kind of really more social Democrat, but the populist, you know, left-wing Bernie Sanders candidate.
[00:15:01]  And that's, that's going to be a big, yeah, I think that that's going to have a big influence on the future of the country in general.
[00:15:08]  And I got to say that if it wasn't for his own personal flaws, and I don't mean personal flaws as much as I do, his personal qualities that make him not a very good politician, forget the fact that obviously his economics is, you know, his economic policies are horrendous.
[00:15:28]  Bernie Sanders, I think, this is just my suspicion, is a much tougher one-on-one challenge for Donald Trump than Joe Biden is.
[00:15:37]  So I really think that's the case.
[00:15:39]  I think that so much of what Donald Trump being elected president represents is that the establishment, which of course Joe Biden, you know, whether he likes it or not, really represents, we're not speaking to the issues that a lot of voters care about.
[00:15:56]  And as backward as his policies might be, I think Bernie Sanders does speak to a lot of those issues, which is like jobs, healthcare, wages, you know, like all of those things.
[00:16:08]  I just think Bernie Sanders is in many ways a tougher, a tougher matchup.
[00:16:16]  And I will say, even though Peter Schiff kind of disagreed with me when he was on the show about this, and I thought he made some good points too, but I think there's something, you know, obviously there's something scary about a guy like Bernie Sanders winning the nomination.
[00:16:30]  But I mean, is there really not anything scary about a guy like Joe Biden winning the nomination?
[00:16:34]  I mean, there are some issues that Bernie, it's like some really important issues.
[00:16:38]  Bernie Sanders is way better than Joe Biden on.
[00:16:41]  I mean, he's way better on war than Joe Biden is.
[00:16:44]  He's way better on drugs than Joe Biden is.
[00:16:48]  But the other thing that I really do think might turn out to kind of be a positive for the country is that, okay, yes, in reality, the gap is, it's not really like Bernie Sanders is a socialist and Donald Trump is a capitalist.

=== Booker Versus Bloomberg (09:35) ===

[00:17:05]  Like we all know that's kind of oversimplifying things.
[00:17:08]  You know, the Republican position is we want Medicare for the old and Medicare for the poor.
[00:17:14]  And Bernie Sanders position is we think the rest of them should have it too.
[00:17:18]  You know, like it's not, they're kind of all socialist to different degrees.
[00:17:23]  But if it's Bernie Sanders versus Donald Trump, it seems like capitalism versus socialism is on the ballot, at least in the way that a lot of voters will perceive it to be.
[00:17:35]  And it makes it hard for that not to be what the argument becomes about.
[00:17:39]  Like, do you want socialism or do you want capitalism?
[00:17:43]  And that's, even though obviously that's not the reality of those two politicians, I still do think there's something that's like good in that, to have that debate.
[00:17:52]  Let's like actually talk about that.
[00:17:54]  However you feel about the political process, presidential elections is when most Americans actually pay attention a little bit to this.
[00:18:02]  And that I think is, I think it would not be the worst thing for American voters to have to at least have a debate about that, about which one is the way to go.
[00:18:15]  So there's that.
[00:18:16]  But not every, it hasn't been all good news.
[00:18:19]  Corey Booker dropped out of the race.
[00:18:22]  Now, I know what you're all thinking.
[00:18:24]  I thought Corey Booker dropped out of the race months ago.
[00:18:27]  No, no, it just happened.
[00:18:29]  This is new.
[00:18:30]  Okay.
[00:18:30]  Corey Booker's out.
[00:18:32]  I know.
[00:18:32]  I can't believe it.
[00:18:34]  The guy who had pretty much the same policy proposals as everybody else, but added bug-eyed craziness into the mix, didn't connect with voters the way we all thought he would.
[00:18:45]  The thing that's really hilarious and revealing about all of this, and the same thing happened when Kamala Harris dropped out, which is funny, by the way, that he made it further than Kamala Harris did.
[00:18:56]  You remember the moment of the mainstream media all telling us after the first debate that this was Kamala Harris's victory and she was the candidate and how much support she had.
[00:19:05]  Meanwhile, it was all just smoke and mirrors.
[00:19:08]  There was no ground support for Kamala Harris and for good reason.
[00:19:13]  But as soon as she dropped out and as soon as Corey Booker drops out, it's the same thing.
[00:19:16]  It's like, well, the field just got less diverse.
[00:19:18]  This is what every article is run.
[00:19:21]  There's a CNN article about it, Town Hall article about it, NBC News article, all the same thing.
[00:19:26]  Basically, it's so funny how identitarian the left has gotten and just the corporate press and the Democratic Party.
[00:19:34]  I shouldn't just say the left.
[00:19:37]  But it's basically like this is the first thought when Corey Booker leaves.
[00:19:40]  They're like, yeah, we lost a black.
[00:19:43]  That's what he's reduced to.
[00:19:45]  And the funny thing is, it's because with both Kamala Harris and Corey Booker, there's really not much that separates them.
[00:19:52]  And there are a couple issues that Corey Booker was maybe a little bit better on.
[00:19:55]  He was certainly better on the war on drugs than Kamala Harris was.
[00:19:59]  But basically, it's like they can't even bring themselves to be like, oh, Corey Booker, a guy who championed these three issues, is no longer in the race.
[00:20:08]  And now we wonder who's going to be talking about these three issues.
[00:20:11]  It's just black guy.
[00:20:13]  And there is something kind of, I don't know, entertaining.
[00:20:16]  And if I do dare say, a little bit satisfying about the fact that the Democratic Party, for as much as they love playing identity politics and talking about all this diversity stuff, when it comes down to it, their voters, I mean, they basically just went for three old, rich white people.
[00:20:36]  One is one 1,000th Native American.
[00:20:39]  But, you know, it's just kind of funny that when they actually got to choose, it's like, well, you had all these other candidates to choose from.
[00:20:48]  And, but, you know, I mean, I guess Andrew Yang is in there.
[00:20:51]  He's still, you know, hanging around.
[00:20:54]  He's going to make a little bit of noise.
[00:20:55]  I don't think he's going to win, but he's going to make a little bit of noise in this election.
[00:21:01]  You know, I don't know where the Democrats stand on Asians being a minority.
[00:21:05]  Like, I don't exactly know.
[00:21:06]  They've been calling him a person of color.
[00:21:08]  Yeah.
[00:21:09]  And he's been speaking out how it's a shame that he's the only person of color that remains in that state.
[00:21:14]  Hilarious because Tulsi Gabbard is also a woman of color, but they're like, yeah, but she opposes the empire.
[00:21:19]  So you don't really, we're not really giving that POC protective shield to somebody who's going to start talking about not bombing brown kids.
[00:21:27]  Is Bloomberg in the next debate?
[00:21:29]  Dude, I don't know what the fuck Bloomberg's doing.
[00:21:31]  Maybe he's floating around and wants to go independent.
[00:21:34]  Maybe.
[00:21:35]  I think Bloomberg might have just been bored.
[00:21:37]  I don't think Bloomberg will go independent because I think they know at this point that Mike Bloomberg has got a lot more appeal to the Dems than he does to the Republicans and that he's just going to guarantee Trump the election if he does that.
[00:21:49]  And, you know, he will be the most hated man in the left half of America if he does that.
[00:21:54]  Wasn't he a Republican when he ran for mayor?
[00:21:57]  Wasn't he technically a Republican?
[00:21:58]  Yes, but a New York City Republican.
[00:22:00]  Yes, he was.
[00:22:01]  He was a Republican.
[00:22:02]  At least when he first ran.
[00:22:03]  He might have been an independent at one point, but he was elected as a Republican mayor.
[00:22:09]  But he was never, you know, there's a difference between like a New York Republican and a rest of the country Republican.
[00:22:15]  So you can be like a pro-choice, anti-gun, pro-climate change, you know, agenda Republican in New York, but try taking that to fucking the Republican Party in Iowa, New Hampshire, and South Carolina.
[00:22:27]  And that shit ain't going to go very well.
[00:22:30]  This is why Rudy Giuliani even fell apart, who's more conservative than Michael Bloomberg.
[00:22:35]  But even Rudy Giuliani fell apart once he was there.
[00:22:38]  Now, the other thing, though, is that New York City is the biggest police state or the biggest police city in the country.
[00:22:49]  And so that ends up hurting you with the left half of the Democratic Party because they don't really like that, that he was like a champion of stopping.
[00:22:57]  I think that's the only most Corey Booker's here, so you got to do something.
[00:23:00]  He's from New Jersey.
[00:23:01]  What are you saying?
[00:23:02]  That was very, very prejudiced, Rob.
[00:23:06]  You're just giving my guest coming up more ammo to attack our alt-right show for.
[00:23:11]  So anyway, I just, I think it's, it's, this thing is heating up and it's getting down to like an interesting point in the race.
[00:23:20]  And there is, you know, like I got to say, I always like when there's interesting candidates, even if I don't agree with them.
[00:23:29]  I thought Tulsi Gabbard was a really interesting candidate.
[00:23:32]  I think Andrew Yang is to some degree an interesting candidate.
[00:23:35]  And for some, in some ways, Bernie Sanders is an interesting candidate.
[00:23:39]  And Bernie seems to be kind of the last one standing that actually has a shot to win this.
[00:23:44]  But look, somebody who doesn't run away from the word socialist.
[00:23:51]  And the typical Democratic talking point is like, well, that's just what the Republicans use to, you know, that's just like an ad hominem.
[00:23:58]  Oh, they call us socialists.
[00:23:59]  We're not socialists.
[00:24:01]  Bernie Sanders is like the first one who's like, no, no, no.
[00:24:03]  I like the word.
[00:24:04]  I'm embracing it.
[00:24:06]  And he's also a guy who obviously the Democratic establishment does not has decided is not allowable.
[00:24:14]  Like they've done everything they can to let you know this guy is not an option.
[00:24:17]  You're not allowed to choose him.
[00:24:19]  And it looks like the Democrats might rebuff that.
[00:24:21]  You know, it's very interesting that Donald Trump just took over the Republican Party.
[00:24:26]  You know, I don't know.
[00:24:27]  I don't know if any of us know exactly what this means long-term for American politics or culture or society.
[00:24:34]  But it's interesting that he went there and the entire Republican establishment said this guy is not an option.
[00:24:39]  And they were like, fuck you, we're with this guy.
[00:24:42]  There was a civil war in the Republican Party, but in Donald Trump's example, Donald Trump just dominated the war.
[00:24:49]  I mean, he just destroyed everybody else.
[00:24:51]  So they had no choice.
[00:24:52]  Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton had a little bit of a civil war, but Bernie Sanders ultimately lost.
[00:24:56]  But he lost in kind of unfair ways.
[00:24:59]  And there's been a big battle for the Democratic Party's soul since then.
[00:25:04]  Are they the Nancy Pelosi Party or the AOC party?
[00:25:07]  Are they the Joe Biden Party or the Bernie Sanders Party?
[00:25:10]  And we're pretty much going to start finding out in a few weeks.
[00:25:14]  And that is, you know, much like the Donald Trump situation.
[00:25:20]  I don't know exactly what the result of that is going to be, but this is going to have an impact on how the country moves forward, you know, for from here on out.
[00:25:29]  You know, I'll be honest at this point, I'm not convinced that we would be in a worse situation if theoretically we had Bernie Sanders as president with a Republican Congress.
[00:25:40]  Because once that happens, then you'll actually see the Republicans be like, well, we're here to stop socialism from moving, you know, and they'll do everything they can to slow down his agenda.
[00:25:49]  And the government will just continue growing at about the rate that it's growing now.
[00:25:52]  That would be my guess.
[00:25:54]  You know, we're probably less likely to get into more foreign conflicts.
[00:26:00]  I mean, Donald Trump is better than, you know, he's probably better than Obama in terms of getting into new wars, certainly better than George W. Bush in terms of that.
[00:26:11]  But he's also got this thing where he's got to like talk shit and come close to starting a new conflict with all these countries.
[00:26:17]  Bernie Sanders will probably be a little bit better on that.
[00:26:20]  Donald Trump has been probably the best president on like drug reform, criminal justice reform stuff.
[00:26:25]  You know, Bernie Sanders will probably do a little bit better than that.
[00:26:29]  And then he'll want to spend more at a faster rate.
[00:26:32]  But will he actually be able to?
[00:26:34]  Is it even possible?
[00:26:35]  You know, who knows?
[00:26:37]  Anyway, we'll see what happens with that.

=== Stefan Molyneux Debate (07:46) ===

[00:26:40]  All right.
[00:26:41]  Why don't we bring in our guest for today's show?
[00:26:44]  Are we all ready over there?
[00:26:46]  Everybody ready?
[00:26:47]  All right.
[00:26:47]  Welcome to the show, John Hudak.
[00:26:50]  Am I saying that right?
[00:26:50]  Hudak.
[00:26:52]  Hudak, yeah.
[00:26:52]  Hudak.
[00:26:53]  Welcome to the show.
[00:26:54]  Thank you very much for coming on.
[00:26:56]  Well, yes, I appreciate it.
[00:26:58]  So just to catch people up, as I did briefly before, but you run the Fakertarian page on the adventure.
[00:27:06]  Okay, one of the people who run the page.
[00:27:09]  And the page has been somewhat critical of me in the last week or two.
[00:27:15]  Yeah.
[00:27:16]  Fair to say.
[00:27:16]  Okay.
[00:27:17]  I say that's fair to say.
[00:27:18]  And I was somewhat critical of you guys in response.
[00:27:21]  So I think it would be good for us to have a conversation about this.
[00:27:24]  Jerry, Jerry, fuck you.
[00:27:28]  So, but before we get into that, let me just ask you, because like just so I kind of know where you're coming from, how would you describe yourself?
[00:27:37]  Like, what type of libertarian?
[00:27:38]  Are you like a minarchist, an anarchist?
[00:27:41]  Like, how would you describe your views?
[00:27:43]  I would say I'm a pre-paleo-era Rothbardian.
[00:27:47]  Okay.
[00:27:47]  So an anarcho-capitalist who likes to 60s Rothbard.
[00:27:52]  Yeah, that's right.
[00:27:53]  That's a 70s too.
[00:27:56]  Early 80s.
[00:27:57]  70s, all the way to the early 80s.
[00:27:59]  Basically, Soviet Union still standing Rothbard.
[00:28:03]  Exactly.
[00:28:04]  Okay.
[00:28:04]  Okay.
[00:28:04]  Fair enough.
[00:28:05]  So why don't we start here?
[00:28:08]  So the Fakertarian site, I got to say, and I do for, and this is what I was surprised by because I spoke with Michael Heiss about this, you know, like a few days ago.
[00:28:19]  And he's, and this was the reason why I put out that post inviting you on in the Mises Caucus Facebook page.
[00:28:25]  And I was kind of surprised because, look, I've been noticing lately since not since we joined the party, but really since the Hornburger announcement, there's been a lot of the kind of left libertarian types who have been very critical of Tom Woods.
[00:28:41]  I get caught up in that as well.
[00:28:44]  And a lot of them, I must say, at least from my perspective, are kind of laughable and irrelevant.
[00:28:51]  And they're just kind of, you know, I find to be a little bit ridiculous.
[00:28:57]  And I kind of thought maybe this page was one of those, but Michael Heiss corrected me and he said, look, I don't think they should have been going after you, but I actually know some of the guys who run this page who are really good guys and are serious libertarians.
[00:29:09]  And so when I heard that, I was like, okay, well, maybe then it's worth having a conversation.
[00:29:13]  I got to say, I really don't understand why a Rothbardian libertarian page would be going after me.
[00:29:22]  It seems weird to me, but let me know.
[00:29:24]  Why is it?
[00:29:25]  What have I done wrong?
[00:29:26]  Why do I deserve to be criticized?
[00:29:28]  It was more about Molyneux than actually you.
[00:29:30]  I mean, we have a lot of issues with him.
[00:29:33]  It was the designation of Molyneux is great a couple times.
[00:29:39]  Not so much the fact that going on his show, because I mean, we've had arguments a bit.
[00:29:44]  I'm going on your show.
[00:29:44]  I don't really have a problem with that.
[00:29:46]  It's more not challenging him as much and the promotion of him in general.
[00:29:53]  Okay.
[00:29:54]  Well, let's say hypothetically, so me and you have our disagreements.
[00:29:59]  If you had a show with, you know, a million subscribers, just on YouTube, a million subscribers, probably way more than that, you know, total.
[00:30:08]  And you were like, hey, do you want to come on and talk about in the middle of this Iran conflict, why we should not be getting involved in a war in Iran?
[00:30:17]  And I were to go on your and say, yeah, absolutely.
[00:30:18]  I want to reach your people.
[00:30:19]  Is there an onus on me to argue with you about an unrelated topic while I'm on your show?
[00:30:26]  Not necessarily, but I feel like the I listened to the episode, actually.
[00:30:31]  I listened to the immigration episode too from 2018.
[00:30:34]  And the topic of the racism stuff did come up.
[00:30:38]  And don't get me wrong.
[00:30:39]  I mean, there are people who I think are like the boy who cried racism or the boy who cried Nazi kind of thing who call it out when there's nothing there.
[00:30:47]  But some of the stuff I've seen from Molyneux, I mean, I used to be a big Malinu fan, actually.
[00:30:52]  I've been in NCAP since 2010, 2011 or something like that.
[00:30:55]  And watching some of his transformation, and especially since I'm very familiar with the alt-right and Jared Howe, Chris Cantwell types, and I kind of know that I kind of know the things they say and I catch the little things.
[00:31:09]  And I've seen a lot of that from Molyneux.
[00:31:11]  I mean, I have a list with me right now if we want to go through anything.
[00:31:14]  Well, look, I don't, you know, look, I don't necessarily, I'm not sitting here to say I agree with Stefan Molyneux on every single thing that he's ever said.
[00:31:22]  I just think it's a little unfair to say the onus is on me to either not speak with somebody who's got a huge platform or to say that if I speak with him, I have to address every issue that you or some other pre-paleo Rothbardian might disagree with him on.
[00:31:37]  Now, specifically, I will say, and we can get to the immigration episode and all of that.
[00:31:40]  I'm happy to talk about it.
[00:31:42]  But this wasn't what generated the criticism, at least initially.
[00:31:46]  What generated the criticism was me going on talking anti-war stuff, which seems really crazy because even a pre-paleo-Rothbard, I think, would completely support the spirit of that.
[00:31:58]  I would agree with the anti-war position, obviously.
[00:32:02]  But it was the designation of great that kind of sparked it.
[00:32:07]  Like if I said, if I went on a show, like let's say Hillary Clinton had a show or something like that, and I was saying the great Hillary Clinton, I mean, I could see why people would take issue with that.
[00:32:17]  Sure, absolutely.
[00:32:18]  I agree with that.
[00:32:18]  Now, let me ask you a question in response and give me an honest answer in this, okay?
[00:32:22]  Honest answer.
[00:32:23]  If I had Tulsi Gabbard on my show and I said, just had a conversation with the great Tulsi Gabbard, do you think anybody on your page or anybody who's trashing Tom Woods and myself would have given me one ounce of flack for that?
[00:32:37]  I think there would have meant a lot less because I don't think she's viewed as as big of a controversial figure in the movement.
[00:32:44]  I'm being honest there.
[00:32:45]  Now, okay, now from a libertarian perspective, somebody who advocates Medicare for all, has signed on to the Green New Deal.
[00:32:53]  I mean, stuff that, I mean, you're literally talking about policies that would just cause untold amount of, you know, chaos, destroy lives, wreck the economy, but somehow that wouldn't generate this criticism.
[00:33:08]  But because what, Stefan Molyneux, you know, you don't agree with his immigration policy or something like that?
[00:33:15]  The immigration, and I honestly, I know you'll take issue with this, but I would characterize him as a white nationalist based on the things I've seen from him.
[00:33:23]  And we can talk about that too.
[00:33:25]  Well, okay, but it just seems like that, you know, if you would characterize him as a white nationalist, I don't know.
[00:33:32]  I mean, he doesn't characterize himself as a white nationalist.
[00:33:35]  I could, you know, like, would it be fair for me to characterize you as a leftist?
[00:33:39]  Because I don't know, you're complaining about racism and that seems to be like their number one issue.
[00:33:43]  But I don't know, you're calling yourself a pre-paleo-Rothbardian, so I'll consider you that.
[00:33:48]  He calls himself an anarcho-capitalism.
[00:33:50]  He has certainly done as much, if not more, than just about anybody to introduce people to the ideas of anarcho-capitalism.
[00:33:58]  All of his early work is still up there on YouTube.
[00:34:02]  It seems to me that it shouldn't be that much of a mystery to any type of ANCAP why I would say the great Stefan Molyneux, a guy who's probably done as much as anyone, as I just said, to spread this ideology to people and a guy who's arguing to his audience now, which consists of a lot of kind of pro-Trump right-wingers, that anti-war is the correct position.
[00:34:22]  I mean, to me, that alone would be like, hey, the great Stefan Molyneux.

=== Infinite CBD Sponsorship (02:59) ===

[00:34:27]  I mean, there's a lot to unpack there, so let me get to it.
[00:34:30]  But like, if Bill Weld or Lincoln Shaffey called themselves libertarians, I wouldn't take it at face value.
[00:34:36]  Like, cause you can't just look at what someone calls themself.
[00:34:40]  And then there's from Molyneux when he went on that trip to Poland.
[00:34:44]  I mean, I have a list of some other quotes here, but he said, I've spoken out against white nationalism, but I'm an empiricist.
[00:34:51]  I'm listening to my experiences.
[00:34:53]  Can't argue with the facts.
[00:34:55]  Can't argue with the reality.
[00:34:57]  Right.
[00:34:58]  So I don't know.
[00:35:00]  Look, I don't know if I necessarily find that quote that damning.
[00:35:02]  I'd have to listen to the full context of it.
[00:35:04]  So I think what he was saying was that a lot of these, a lot of the problems that he's seeing in today's society didn't exist in Poland where he went there.
[00:35:14]  Look, I can understand, and I don't think that quote makes him a white nationalist.
[00:35:18]  I don't know if I completely agree with it.
[00:35:20]  I think there's more.
[00:35:20]  I think there's more to it than that quote.
[00:35:22]  Let me say this.
[00:35:23]  And I don't know if you've ever been in this situation before, but I've been in it a few times, not nearly as severely as Molyneux has.
[00:35:30]  But I've been in a situation where because of a comedian or because of a guest on a podcast, Antifa, New York City's branch, is out there tweeting at you, spreading the message that they're going to come show up to your show and things like that.
[00:35:45]  And there's some real deal threats of violence for you just trying to, you know, exercise your freedom of speech, do your job, all of that.
[00:35:52]  Molyneux dealt with a tremendous amount of that.
[00:35:55]  So I could understand where he would go to an area where he's like, oh man, I can actually give a speech here and be a little bit swept up in that.
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=== Libertarian Immigration Views (03:06) ===

[00:37:26]  Now, look, I don't know.
[00:37:28]  I don't know what he meant by that quote.
[00:37:29]  We'd have to ask him, but I don't know that that proves anything.
[00:37:33]  I don't know that that by itself proves anything.
[00:37:36]  I mean, I don't know why he's bringing up white nationalism in the first place, other than just being like, I'm in Poland.
[00:37:41]  It's nice here.
[00:37:42]  But I mean, here's the problem.
[00:37:44]  And look, I don't know if I really want to go through every one of these quotes because the problem is when you get to cherry-pick every single one of these quotes, you can paint a certain picture.
[00:37:53]  I can just off memory pick a quote when he was on Tom Wood's show and Tom asked him, do you consider yourself a white nationalist?
[00:38:01]  And he laughed and said, of course not.
[00:38:03]  Like, I'm not a nationalist or an advocate of white nationalism or anything like that.
[00:38:08]  I'm an anarcho-capitalist and I've always been.
[00:38:10]  So I just don't.
[00:38:11]  I mean, Bill Weld considers himself a libertarian, or he did consider himself a libertarian.
[00:38:16]  Lincoln Chaffee considers himself a libertarian.
[00:38:19]  When he's tweeting out pictures of Hispanic kids in elementary school and saying, we were never asked, there's some kind of identitarian race baiting there.
[00:38:28]  Well, yes, but the truth is, if you were to say One of those guys, Bill Weld.
[00:38:34]  And look, I don't know.
[00:38:35]  I mean, it depends on how you define the term libertarian, right?
[00:38:38]  But if you were to say, is Bill Weld a libertarian?
[00:38:42]  Well, I mean, he didn't consider himself a libertarian until five minutes before he wanted the nomination, and he doesn't consider himself a libertarian since then.
[00:38:48]  And you can say, well, look, he supports these wars.
[00:38:51]  He supports these policies.
[00:38:53]  With Lincoln Chafee, he supported the Patriot Act, supports gun control.
[00:38:57]  Again, he may have changed this in the last five minutes.
[00:38:59]  I'm not completely sure.
[00:39:00]  It seems a little bit different to somebody who's clearly steeped in libertarian philosophy.
[00:39:05]  And to have an opinion like that about, look, the truth is, whether you find it, my point is this, whether you find it kind of like gross that he would tweet out a picture of, you know, the changing demographics in America and go, we were never asked, you know, it is kind of factually true.
[00:39:21]  The demographics have changed drastically in this country, and there really was never a referendum on that.
[00:39:27]  But I just don't have much of a problem with Hispanic kids in kindergarten.
[00:39:31]  Well, I'm not saying I have a problem with any type of kindergartners.
[00:39:34]  I'm just saying that I don't get what the argument really is against what he said.
[00:39:39]  I think what this comes to is the really the immigration issue.
[00:39:43]  And I think that's really where a lot of people have a problem with Steph.
[00:39:47]  And I guess with me too.
[00:39:50]  Well, I'm curious what your immigration position is because I know where Steph is, and I kind of know a little bit of where you are, but I wasn't entirely sure.
[00:39:59]  Well, what do you think?
[00:40:00]  Where do you think Stefan Molyneux is?
[00:40:01]  I'm just curious what your take on that is.
[00:40:03]  And I'll be happy to do that.
[00:40:06]  Okay.
[00:40:06]  Very Trumpian.
[00:40:08]  I've seen him tweet out one wall now or many graves later, your choice, America.
[00:40:13]  I mean, it seems pretty authoritarian in that aspect.
[00:40:17]  Well, I don't know.
[00:40:17]  I mean, I guess it depends on how authoritarian you think a wall is.
[00:40:21]  By the way, I would not be for a wall.
[00:40:24]  I just kind of find it, I kind of have the Ron Paul reasoning for not liking a wall.
[00:40:30]  I go, I don't like what it is symbolically.

=== Privatize Everything (15:22) ===

[00:40:32]  It's kind of been used by a lot of authoritarian governments in the past.
[00:40:37]  I also am enough of a paranoid conspiracy theorist that I agree with Ron Paul, who says, you never know these walls could be used to keep you in, you know, down the road.
[00:40:46]  That being said, I don't actually find a wall to be like the most authoritarian solution.
[00:40:52]  I actually find just letting people, like the status quo of just a ton of people coming over the border, we catch the ones we catch and lock them in cages, I find to be way more authoritarian than just kind of like a wall like no one's allowed in, to be honest.
[00:41:06]  Have you, let me ask you this, because you say you like the pre-paleo Rothbard.
[00:41:11]  Did you ever read some of the later Rothbard stuff?
[00:41:15]  Like, have you, have you read Nations by Consent?
[00:41:17]  Yeah, Nations, yeah.
[00:41:18]  Okay, I have.
[00:41:18]  So this is just for people who don't know.
[00:41:21]  This was a piece that Murray Rothbard wrote that was kind of symbolic of some of his shifts toward the end of his career.
[00:41:33]  And what Rothbard was writing about was the fall of the Soviet Union, his take on nationalism and immigration, and how he had to kind of rethink about these things.
[00:41:45]  Now, of course, the Soviet Union collapsing had a huge impact on a lot of different thinkers, different people.
[00:41:54]  It had a very negative impact on some people, like neocons and stuff like that, where they decided we can really take over the world now.
[00:42:00]  But it had a very profound impact on paleoconservatives and anarcho-capitalist libertarians of the day.
[00:42:07]  And of course, for obvious reason.
[00:42:09]  I mean, the Soviet Union was the most totalitarian, brutal regime of the 20th century.
[00:42:16]  And it just collapsed when none of the experts seemed to see this coming, the so-called experts.
[00:42:23]  I mean, the CIA said the Soviet Union was strong.
[00:42:26]  The neocons were saying that Ronald Reagan's appeasement of the Soviet Union had guaranteed them another hundred years.
[00:42:32]  You have to think about the Soviet Union had been around for, I mean, something like 70 something years.
[00:42:39]  You got to think it's around the history of Israel.
[00:42:41]  It's kind of like at this point, we all just assume Israel exists and probably isn't going anywhere anytime soon.
[00:42:47]  This was a much bigger deal than a tiny little country like Israel.
[00:42:51]  And they disappeared and collapsed.
[00:42:54]  And what happened was one of the major driving forces that broke the Soviet Union down was nationalism.
[00:43:01]  And these ideas that a lot of people thought had been wiped out.
[00:43:05]  People used to speculate about the communists creating this new man who, you know, like, well, I mean, they've been there for 70, 80 years.
[00:43:12]  I guess the people really don't care about nationalism and their own ethnic, you know, kind of pre-Soviet, you know, groupings or stuff like that.
[00:43:20]  And actually, it turned out when given a little bit of a chance, they still really cared about that.
[00:43:25]  And so Murray Rothbard started reevaluating how he felt about nationalism.
[00:43:28]  And he was like, well, maybe nationalism can actually be used as somewhat of a force for good, not just a force for bad.
[00:43:33]  Even though he always acknowledged it can be used as a force for bad.
[00:43:37]  And he also rethought his position on immigration.
[00:43:39]  And one of the things that led him to thinking about this was that while the Soviet Union was collapsing, the Russians were flooding Estonia with ethnic Russians.
[00:43:53]  This was like one of their tactics to kind of break up the nationalist tendencies of that region.
[00:44:00]  And Murray Rothbard was posing the question like, man, am I really supposed to like root for this?
[00:44:05]  Or at least say we have to accept it?
[00:44:07]  Like this is libertarian?
[00:44:09]  I mean, obviously, this is the Russians, the communists attempt to stop these guys from having their freedom.
[00:44:17]  They're flooding in ethnic Russians.
[00:44:18]  It's not to enrich them with diversity.
[00:44:21]  They're doing it.
[00:44:22]  This is politically state-sponsored immigration.
[00:44:25]  And the Estonians, under an anarcho-capitalist system, would have a method by which they could resist this if they wanted to.
[00:44:33]  But because of the states, they have nothing.
[00:44:36]  And so this led to him rethinking the whole immigration situation.
[00:44:42]  I find that all to be somewhat compelling.
[00:44:45]  And I don't, you know, I think immigration is a very nuanced, difficult issue.
[00:44:51]  I'm rambling a little bit here.
[00:44:52]  So what do you think the anarcho-capitalist position on immigration should be?
[00:44:58]  Well, I think that some of the worst abuses of the state come from immigration enforcement, throwing peaceful people in cages, the papers, police, checkpoints, just the idea that there's a line in the desert somewhere that no one really, no one really has ownership over, and someone's going to use violence against someone for some guy from Central America crossing it.
[00:45:16]  I mean, obviously in a privatized society, I have no problem.
[00:45:20]  Well, no, I don't think there should be a legal issue with a private community saying, you can't come in here.
[00:45:26]  This is our private property.
[00:45:28]  But I don't think that's what we have right now.
[00:45:30]  Right.
[00:45:31]  Okay.
[00:45:31]  But so is it that, so, but really, listen, I tend to agree with you on throwing people in cages.
[00:45:37]  I absolutely abhor the police state, you know, around the border that goes like very far into American homeland, the show-me-your-papers stuff.
[00:45:47]  All of that absolutely horrible.
[00:45:48]  But in a way, then wouldn't a wall be not as bad a violation as those policies?
[00:45:55]  Well, no, because there's the eminent domain involved.
[00:45:58]  There's the, I mean, there's tax money with the actual enforcement, but there's the tax money involved with building the wall.
[00:46:03]  There's still the fact that I can't invite someone in to work at my store or invite someone in to come hang out at my house and some government agent is going to use violence against them.
[00:46:13]  So I guess, no, now I don't necessarily disagree with anything you said there, but I guess I look at it like this from an anarcho-capitalist perspective, that obviously the answer is to privatize everything.
[00:46:24]  I mean, this is the only way to have a truly ethical system.
[00:46:28]  And whenever I've been asked about what my policy on immigration is, I've always said, well, I really think, I mean, you want to end the war on drugs, end the welfare state, privatize everything, legalize discrimination, legalize all of this stuff.
[00:46:42]  So if some communities don't want immigrants coming in, they have a right to choose that.
[00:46:45]  If others want a ton of immigrants coming in, they have a right to choose that.
[00:46:48]  This is the kind of libertarian, everybody wins, ethically consistent principle.
[00:46:53]  That being said, we live in a society where the government does control the borders.
[00:46:58]  And whether the government has open borders or closed borders or anything in between, none of that is really a libertarian solution.
[00:47:06]  And you can say, well, what about somebody who wants to invite some people in and now a government, a wall or something would stop them from coming in?
[00:47:13]  Sure enough, that's un-libertarian.
[00:47:17]  However, equally un-libertarian is a community being flooded by immigrants that they don't want in and businesses not being allowed to discriminate, landlords not being allowed to discriminate.
[00:47:31]  The whole libertarian business is that if there is an interaction, both parties need to consent.
[00:47:36]  And if both parties don't consent, then it's not libertarian.
[00:47:39]  And so I just don't really think that any solution here is libertarian.
[00:47:44]  And I am somewhat sympathetic to both sides.
[00:47:47]  I understand why some libertarians are open borders.
[00:47:50]  I also understand why some libertarians would say, hey, you know what?
[00:47:53]  It's un-libertarian either way.
[00:47:55]  And I think for practical reasons, this is a better solution.
[00:48:00]  I mean, I just can't support the closed borders position.
[00:48:03]  Like we have state-sponsored healthcare right now, but that's not a reason not to legalize drugs or a reason to not let people eat McDonald's.
[00:48:13]  Right.
[00:48:13]  But here's the difference.
[00:48:14]  Here's a major, major difference in these examples you're using.
[00:48:17]  So let's say, let me say it like this, okay?
[00:48:19]  So we have state-run schools right now, a whole bunch of them.
[00:48:23]  Obviously, the libertarian solution is to privatize them, get the separation of government and schools or whatever, get the government out of schooling.
[00:48:31]  Probably debatably the biggest problem that we have is that governments run the schools.
[00:48:36]  That being said, if you were like, well, as I'm sure me and you would both agree, people have a right to use drugs.
[00:48:44]  I mean, it's your body.
[00:48:45]  You can put whatever you want into your body.
[00:48:47]  Some of them might be really harmful.
[00:48:49]  We might kind of wish people didn't use them.
[00:48:51]  Like some of them, you know, like meth or heroin or something like that would be like, yeah, those drugs are really cause a lot of problems.
[00:48:56]  But you know what?
[00:48:57]  We believe in freedom.
[00:48:58]  We believe in self-ownership.
[00:49:00]  You have a right.
[00:49:01]  It is an exercise in liberty, whether it's a good idea or a bad idea to use them.
[00:49:04]  If somebody said, hey, I want to go start smoking meth.
[00:49:10]  You smoke meth, right?
[00:49:11]  Yes.
[00:49:11]  On the weekends.
[00:49:12]  On the weekends.
[00:49:12]  There we go.
[00:49:13]  If I want to start smoking meth in the middle of a public school, or I want to do it on a public sidewalk right outside of the public school.
[00:49:22]  And they said, no, we're not going to allow that.
[00:49:24]  We are going to tell you you have to leave.
[00:49:27]  I think it's completely reasonable for a libertarian to say, yes, ideal situation is privatize all the schools.
[00:49:33]  Second ideal is do not let people do meth in schools with children.
[00:49:38]  And then, you know, much worse than that is allow people to do meth.
[00:49:41]  And if some libertarian were to say, oh, but, you know, he owns his body and he has freedom of movement.
[00:49:46]  And this is a government agent just stepping in, kicking him out, I don't really have a problem with that.
[00:49:52]  Because in a libertarian system, if it was privately owned, you would be allowed to kick people out.
[00:49:57]  Kicking people out.
[00:49:58]  Now, that's not the same as the war on drugs.
[00:50:00]  The war on drugs, you're literally throwing people in cages.
[00:50:03]  That I agree.
[00:50:04]  We should not support.
[00:50:06]  And certainly with the war on drugs, where someone's growing a plant on their own property and then federal agents break into their property and ruin that guy's life.
[00:50:14]  Absolutely horrible.
[00:50:15]  But if we're just in theory talking about not letting someone in, excluding someone from a piece of property, I don't really see anything that anti-libertarian about that.
[00:50:25]  All right, guys, let's take a moment and thank our sponsor for today's show, which is Untuck It.
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[00:51:42]  All right, let's get back into the show.
[00:51:44]  I see a difference between someone being legitimately disruptive at a school and hanging out around kids doing meth or like yelling or something like that versus some guy in the middle of the desert just walking over the line, coming in here, renting something from someone who's willing to rent to him and just live here.
[00:52:00]  Right, but I'm not saying, no, but listen, I understand there's a difference.
[00:52:02]  They're not the exact same situations, but the principle of the issue is more or less the same.
[00:52:07]  The idea is, does the government have the right in something that the government is controlling to exclude somebody who, as you said, is just exercising their freedom?
[00:52:15]  Hey, man, I'm just walking across an imaginary line.
[00:52:18]  The line there is just as imaginary.
[00:52:21]  And I'm just putting something into my body.
[00:52:24]  Why do you have a right, Mr. Government agent, to use force against me and kick me out?
[00:52:29]  My point is that the libertarian answer of kicking people out is actually fairly consistent with what private actors would be able to do.
[00:52:37]  Again, I'm not saying any of this is a perfect libertarian solution unless you privatize everything.
[00:52:43]  You're not going to have that.
[00:52:44]  But I understand where people would go, you know what?
[00:52:49]  While we do have a government, excluding them from certain areas of property is much more reasonable and consistent with libertarianism than locking them up or than just opening the floodgates and not letting property owners have any say.
[00:53:04]  But a meth user is actually being disrupted somewhere.
[00:53:07]  Some guy from Mexico, I mean, I don't think people's rights are based on where they were born.
[00:53:16]  Okay, go ahead, Rob.
[00:53:17]  Well, one is, I guess individually, maybe they're not being disruptive, but collectively, they definitely do change the voting standards or I mean, voting demographics and can vote for more socialism, which is the real risk.
[00:53:30]  And then earlier, what you had said, and I just think this is interesting because maybe it's just kind of the difference in my logic to yours, but you said, if we're offering health care, should we remove the freedom of choice to be eating at a place called McDonald's?
[00:53:42]  And I actually think, yes.
[00:53:43]  I think that if individuals are going to push that other people should have to pay for their health care, there are costs of thing.
[00:53:49]  Ideally, there should be no government involvement in the healthcare.
[00:53:52]  But if government's going to step in and say, hey, I'm going to force this cost collectively on everybody for them to also to remove some of the choices about what you can consume, I'm okay with that.
[00:54:02]  It's kind of what that's the cost of, hey, I'm not going to pay for my health care.
[00:54:06]  Fine.
[00:54:07]  If you're not going to pay for your health care, then yeah, you can't do those drugs.
[00:54:10]  I'm sorry.
[00:54:10]  You don't get to make that choice anymore.
[00:54:12]  I prefer the freedom model, but once you interrupt the freedom model and you start removing the choice of the consequences, I'm also okay with imposing some of the negatives on people.
[00:54:21]  I don't know.
[00:54:22]  That's kind of my outlook there.
[00:54:25]  It seems to me to be a libertarian way to get to authoritarianism.
[00:54:29]  Like once you go down that street, there's so many different things you could have government doing.
[00:54:33]  Well, yeah, okay.
[00:54:34]  I don't, I actually don't agree with Rob on that.
[00:54:36]  I don't want to bet.
[00:54:37]  But the real question to me from a libertarian perspective is what are you doing to people?
[00:54:41]  Like, what is it that you're doing to these people?
[00:54:44]  Now, again, I also think that the Rothbardian argument, or actually this is more of the Hoppyan argument, but I think there's some merit to this argument, which is that what we know as public property is not really public property.
[00:55:00]  And that in fact, really, if we believe that taxation is theft and all of this property is purchased with theft, there are rightful owners.
[00:55:08]  Now, it's very hard to discern who those rightful owners are, but it's reasonable to say that those rightful owners were the taxed domestic population.
[00:55:17]  Or, you know, I would also go as far as to say people who were like abused by the state in different ways.
[00:55:22]  Now, it's very difficult to slice and dice all of this and to actually figure out who paid what and who owns what.
[00:55:28]  But I don't think it's completely unreasonable that if there was a community of people who, like theoretically, if there was a community of people who didn't want any immigrants in there, I don't think it's that unreasonable to say, look, we don't want immigrants in here, and that's our choice.
[00:55:43]  The same way we, like me and you, would both support it if they were private ownership, but you have this government involved, which eliminates the ability of the private owners to exercise their discretion.
[00:55:53]  But so, you know what I'm saying?

=== Rightful Property Owners (14:34) ===

[00:55:55]  Like, you wouldn't have a problem with this.
[00:55:57]  Now, here's, again, and I just want to hammer home on this.
[00:55:59]  This is the difference between, say, the war on drugs or, as you were saying, the slippery slope where you can justify all sorts of government with this.
[00:56:05]  Because I agree with you.
[00:56:06]  That's why I wouldn't want to ban McDonald's or something like that.
[00:56:08]  Because that is a slippery slope.
[00:56:09]  You could justify just about anything.
[00:56:11]  The difference is that you would never justify a private property owner locking someone in a cage for smoking a joint, even if they were smoking a joint on their property.
[00:56:22]  You would justify them kicking them out off of their property.
[00:56:25]  Like, hey, get out of here.
[00:56:26]  I don't want people smoking weed here.
[00:56:28]  Okay.
[00:56:29]  So we're not justifying the state doing anything we wouldn't justify private actors doing, but we would justify private actors building a wall.
[00:56:36]  In fact, they build walls all the time.
[00:56:38]  So again, do you see my point where there is at least an argument here?
[00:56:41]  It is more nuanced and isn't as simple as every libertarian has to feel the same moral outrage about this.
[00:56:51]  I mean, I still see the problem with Emmanuel domain and taxpayer-funded money.
[00:56:56]  It's a guy in the middle of the desert.
[00:56:58]  Like it's not anyone actually hurting anyone.
[00:57:01]  If you want to go to the welfare argument or even the voting argument, even though, I mean, technically illegal immigrants can't vote, maybe it happens here or there, but it doesn't happen a lot.
[00:57:11]  Hold on one second.
[00:57:12]  Well, actually, I mean, it's not just that their kids do.
[00:57:15]  There is a lot of illegals voting.
[00:57:17]  And in fact, if you try to look into it, you realize that it's very, very hard to actually get any numbers on this stuff because it's really like, as you and me might both guess, it turns out the state doesn't do a very good job of enforcing any of the rules or figuring any of the stuff out, especially when one of the political parties is completely incentivized to make sure that they don't do anything to figure this out.
[00:57:40]  I mean, come on, listen, man, when there was that whole thing about voter ID laws and the Democratic Party decided that voter ID laws were the new Jim Crow, this was the most horrible, obviously anti-black thing that you could do is ask someone to have an ID, even though you have to have an ID to get on a plane or a train or go into a government building, by the way.
[00:58:00]  But all of a sudden they decided this.
[00:58:01]  Do you not see that maybe this had something to do with the fact that they realize there's going to be some immigrants voting?
[00:58:08]  I mean, I'm not arguing that parties won't use things to their advantage like that.
[00:58:11]  Like both the Democratic, the Democratic Party, the Republican Party, I both think they're corrupt.
[00:58:16]  But the people who are already here are already voting for authoritarianism and socialism and all of that.
[00:58:23]  Yeah, no, listen, no question about that.
[00:58:26]  That's all definitely true.
[00:58:27]  I'm just saying that, look, at the very least, you have to also agree, right?
[00:58:32]  If there is.
[00:58:34]  So as you said before, which of course is true, is that if there is someone just, you know, walking across an imaginary line in the desert and there happened to be a wall there stopping him from walking in, or if somebody wanted to hire someone and bring them in and they weren't able to or something like that, you can argue that's an aggression by the state.
[00:58:53]  I don't dispute that.
[00:58:55]  But what's actually happening in America right now is some of that, but a lot more of areas being flooded with new waves of immigrants where the people there are completely nullified by the state in any ability to exercise control over the areas where they live.
[00:59:18]  So they can't, you know, they can't keep people out.
[00:59:22]  They can't choose to not, you know, integrate with people if they don't want to.
[00:59:26]  And as Rothbard, by the way, even back 60s, Rothbard, your boy said that forced segregation was immoral and forced integration was immoral.
[00:59:37]  Now, which society do we really live in right now?
[00:59:40]  Do we have forced segregation or do we really kind of have forced integration where there are all these discrimination laws?
[00:59:47]  You're not allowed to live kind of amongst your own in most sectors of life.
[00:59:51]  And there are all these people.
[00:59:52]  I mean, this is why people are flooding out of California because so many of these areas have been complete, have completely changed.
[01:00:00]  Now, by the way, I also want to just throw this out there.
[01:00:03]  I'm not tweeting out pictures like Steph did with that stuff.
[01:00:07]  That's not my style.
[01:00:08]  I'm supporting Jacob Hornberger for president.
[01:00:11]  I'm not like a hardcore border tarian or whatever they call them.
[01:00:15]  I just recognize that this issue, it's a little bit more sophisticated than you're a fake libertarian if you look at things this way or if you talk with people who look at things this way, which is, I guess, what makes me a fake libertarian.
[01:00:30]  And then with Steph, there's all this.
[01:00:32]  But I compliment him.
[01:00:34]  So I compliment him.
[01:00:35]  Okay, listen, let me say this.
[01:00:37]  I didn't say you're.
[01:00:38]  Okay.
[01:00:38]  No, no, no, no, go ahead.
[01:00:39]  Go ahead.
[01:00:40]  I didn't say you're necessarily a fake libertarian.
[01:00:43]  I mean, the page is just used to call out people, you know?
[01:00:47]  Okay.
[01:00:47]  Well, I was posted about many times on a page called fake libertarians or fakertarians.
[01:00:53]  So maybe I'm jumping to conclusions there.
[01:00:56]  But my point is this.
[01:00:56]  Look, if I were to, getting back to the kind of the main point of all this, if I were to talk to Tulsi Gabbard, I would 100% say I have the great Tulsi Gabbard on my show, or if I was on her show, I'm going on the great Tulsi Gabbard show.
[01:01:10]  I would say that about Jimmy Doer.
[01:01:11]  I would say the great Jimmy Doerr, which I have said before, I've called him the great Jimmy Doerr.
[01:01:15]  I would say that about Pat Buchanan, if Pat Buchanan was coming on my show or I was going on his show, because to me and to pre-Paleocon Murray Rothbard, the number one issue, as Murray Rothbard said, and this was back in the 60s as well, that the war and peace issue was the central issue of libertarianism.
[01:01:36]  And to anybody, even if they have some issues that I don't necessarily agree with them on, I mean, I think Pat Buchanan's trade policies are horrible.
[01:01:44]  But you know what?
[01:01:44]  Pat Buchanan was a cold warrior who, when the Soviet Union fell, stood up to the Republican establishment and said, this war in Iraq, George H.W. Bush war in Iraq, this is craziness and we should come home and be a normal country.
[01:01:57]  And he opposed every subsequent war.
[01:01:59]  And to me, that's heroic.
[01:02:01]  And like, that's enough to win the title of great.
[01:02:03]  Like, you don't have to agree with every single thing that I say.
[01:02:06]  And if I went on a show with Pat Buchanan and we just agreed about how evil the American empire was, I think it's unfair to criticize me for not saying, well, no, I didn't argue with him about trade policy.
[01:02:18]  Do you get where I'm coming from on that?
[01:02:20]  Would you say that about Richard Spencer or Chris Cantwell?
[01:02:23]  No, probably not.
[01:02:26]  Not probably.
[01:02:27]  I wouldn't.
[01:02:28]  So that's where my line is.
[01:02:30]  That's good.
[01:02:30]  That's true to hear.
[01:02:31]  Yeah.
[01:02:31]  Yeah.
[01:02:32]  No, and I've had conversations with both those guys.
[01:02:35]  I know.
[01:02:37]  And I did not call either of them great.
[01:02:40]  I know, but stuff crosses that line for me sometimes, especially with a lot of the getting into some of the IQ science stuff.
[01:02:48]  I mean, a lot of what he says is kind of misrepresenting it from what I've read.
[01:02:54]  Well, I mean, look, okay, so that I think would be the other thing.
[01:02:57]  Maybe that's we could talk about that a little bit because I think these are the two issues probably that the immigration stuff and then it's the race and IQ stuff are the things that piss off certain groups of libertarians about Stefan Molyneux.
[01:03:10]  Now, as I said, which I think you guys posted a quote of mine, which God damn, I know I say fucking and like way too much, but when you're listening to me on a podcast, it sounds kind of okay.
[01:03:22]  And then when you put it out in writing, I'm like, man, that's, I really, I got to cut it.
[01:03:28]  I just wanted to stay true to what was said.
[01:03:29]  Yeah, well, okay, fair enough.
[01:03:30]  You know, you could have cut a few of the likes out, you dick.
[01:03:33]  All right.
[01:03:33]  Anyway.
[01:03:36]  Just take out a few of the ums and the likes and you know's.
[01:03:39]  I get it.
[01:03:40]  Okay.
[01:03:40]  I'm not perfect at this.
[01:03:41]  And I still have probably the biggest libertarian podcast out there.
[01:03:44]  That's how shallow our bench is is somebody who's not even that good at speaking is fucking taking over in this game.
[01:03:50]  All right.
[01:03:50]  Anyway, but look, I'm not somebody who obsesses over the race and IQ question.
[01:03:57]  In fact, I rarely talk about it.
[01:03:59]  I've gotten criticized many times by, I know a lot of the people who comment on your page are like, Dave's whole fan base is the alt-right.
[01:04:05]  I've got like five alt-right guys who listen to the show and they do nothing but criticize me.
[01:04:09]  Okay, that's that's the truth.
[01:04:11]  And one of the things they criticize me is that I don't talk about this enough.
[01:04:14]  But truthfully, I don't know.
[01:04:16]  I focus a lot more on what can actually be done that's consistent with morality.
[01:04:22]  And if there is a disparity in race and IQ on average, which there is, I don't know whether this is caused by environmental factors or genetic factors.
[01:04:31]  My guess is it's a mix of both.
[01:04:33]  I've spoken to some experts on this who seem to indicate that, but they say it's very complicated.
[01:04:37]  We really don't understand the human brain that well.
[01:04:40]  And a lot of people who make these cases as if we have a complete understanding are really kind of misleading people.
[01:04:47]  So I don't know.
[01:04:50]  Okay, fair enough.
[01:04:52]  But I'm just saying that fair enough.
[01:04:54]  And maybe he is.
[01:04:54]  You know, I haven't listened to every one of his pockets.
[01:04:57]  The guy has like something like 7,000 podcasts.
[01:04:59]  I actually don't know.
[01:05:00]  There might be three or four Stefan Molyneux, and they're still all be very hardworking.
[01:05:04]  So that being said, I tend to look at things like you go like, okay, well, if there is a higher crime rate, obviously, in the black community in America, well, okay, if it is something like if you're making an argument like, well, this is just the genetics of the situation or something like that, they're high testosterone, low IQ.
[01:05:23]  So that's, it's like, well, there's nothing we can do with that anyway.
[01:05:26]  So I don't even really care if that's true, but I know there are like these five policies that we could enact that would make the situation much, much better.
[01:05:33]  I don't know, you know what I mean?
[01:05:35]  Like what, to what degree things are genetic or environmental.
[01:05:38]  I know that environment plays a large role.
[01:05:40]  So let's really work on that since we can actually control that.
[01:05:43]  You know, let's end the welfare state.
[01:05:44]  Let's abolish the war on drugs.
[01:05:46]  Let's abolish public schools.
[01:05:49]  I'm convinced you would see a drastic, drastic improvement.
[01:05:52]  And in fact, before most of those things existed, things were drastically better from the point of view of violent crime.
[01:06:00]  Okay.
[01:06:01]  However, I can't criticize someone else for talking about a scientific reality just because I don't like the way it makes me feel.
[01:06:13]  So, you know, Charles Murray is probably the libertarian who's done the most on this.
[01:06:16]  Look, the reality is that there is a difference in IQ amongst different racial groups.
[01:06:22]  And I understand why some libertarians want to talk about it.
[01:06:27]  And obviously, and I know you realize this too, is because it drives a dagger through the progressive narrative that any disparity must be due to discrimination or must be due to racism or systemic racism or something like that.
[01:06:46]  So I understand it.
[01:06:48]  I can't get mad at people for talking about science.
[01:06:50]  And if they're misinterpreting the science or misrepresenting it as you implied, then let me know where.
[01:06:55]  And you can make the argument that that's fine.
[01:06:57]  But I won't denounce them just for talking about it.
[01:07:00]  Oh, no, it's not the talking about it.
[01:07:03]  It's the misrepresentation that I have an issue with.
[01:07:05]  Like actually, another one of the admins on our page is a scientist and into that kind of stuff.
[01:07:11]  And he was kind of teaching me about some of it, about how stress in childhood lowers IQ, how the bell curve, which Molyneux cites, it inflates the heterability of IQ and ignores things like the environment, like the maternal environment.
[01:07:28]  Right, right.
[01:07:28]  But hold on.
[01:07:29]  But just to give you a pushback there, and I want to let you finish, but it's not as if Stefan Molyneux has not addressed abuse in childhood.
[01:07:36]  I mean, this would probably be one of his biggest issues.
[01:07:38]  By the way, another reason why I refer to him as great without hesitation is that Stefan Molyneux has convinced many people, some people I know, to go the peaceful parenting route.
[01:07:49]  I mean, like that alone, man, like even if you're really bad on like other policies, which I don't know that Stefan Molyneux is actually bad on any of these policies.
[01:07:57]  I think if you pushed him on what he's actually advocating, short of like wanting immigration control, which again, I said before is a very nuanced issue, which is there's really no libertarian solution other than what I think he would agree he ultimately wants, which is to privatize everything.
[01:08:12]  I think like if you pushed him on it, he wouldn't really be advocating any policy against any group.
[01:08:18]  Maybe I'm wrong about that.
[01:08:19]  Like I said, I haven't listened to every show of his.
[01:08:21]  But I mean, it's not as if these things that can add IQ points.
[01:08:24]  Stephan Molyneux was talking about this like a decade ago, that it's like, yeah, you can take away IQ points from your kid by abusing them or neglecting them or hitting them.
[01:08:32]  Don't do any of that, you know?
[01:08:35]  But he's talked about regression to the mean with racial IQ.
[01:08:39]  Like he had a tweet about how if some Indian people from India come over and have a kid, their offspring will eventually regress to like the racial mean, which is just, it's not even a thing.
[01:08:53]  Okay.
[01:08:53]  Well, maybe he's wrong about that.
[01:08:54]  Yeah, I don't, I, I, I just, I really don't know.
[01:08:57]  It just, it just seems really race beady and identitarian and kind of fear-mongering to me, the whole thing.
[01:09:02]  And I mean, he actually, his old immigration position was pretty much what mine was.
[01:09:08]  I mean, back when I used to like him a lot.
[01:09:10]  I was actually reading through an article he wrote from 2006 about how he says immigrants and minorities may well be the best friends that freedom has.
[01:09:18]  They do not fall as readily to propaganda and they experience the excluded underbelly of state power more accurately than many libertarians.
[01:09:26]  They're not threats to be feared, but friends to be made.
[01:09:29]  Yeah, no, look, no question.
[01:09:30]  Stephan Molyneux was an absolute open borders advocate for years and he changed his mind on the issue.
[01:09:37]  I also think he acknowledges that he changed his mind on the issue, as did Murray Rothbard.
[01:09:41]  But I think that part of the reality, part of what happens is people live through real historical events and they have an effect on you.
[01:09:49]  Like I said with Murray Rothbard, I mean, he lived through the collapse of the Soviet Union.
[01:09:54]  It's like, look, man, this guy was around, the guy you love was around for decades and decades and decades preaching into the wind against state power and watching every inroad just go nowhere.
[01:10:06]  I mean, he, you know, he tried to, he always tried to align with whoever the anti-war movement was, tried in the 60s to align with the anti-Vietnam people.
[01:10:13]  They're all a bunch of fucking communists, basically.
[01:10:15]  And he's like, Jesus Christ, this is going nowhere.
[01:10:18]  These guys just want nothing but state control.
[01:10:20]  Tried and over, just kind of in these desperate times.
[01:10:23]  And then all of a sudden, the stuff he's been talking about forever, like state power, the Soviet Union collapses.

=== Left Libertarian Doubts (12:26) ===

[01:10:29]  And it's like, whoa, there's an actual victory there.
[01:10:32]  Like something, okay?
[01:10:33]  We haven't, we don't have that many victories in the 20th century.
[01:10:36]  And there was a big one, like the biggest one libertarians could imagine.
[01:10:40]  The fucking Soviet Union collapsed.
[01:10:43]  All the justifications for how communism was a better economic model than capitalism destroyed right in front of us.
[01:10:49]  And all of the fucking papers come out and you realize how brutal they were.
[01:10:53]  None of these leftists can pretend anymore that, you know, because before then they were.
[01:10:57]  They were all pretending, oh, the Ukrainians just starved.
[01:10:59]  It was an accident.
[01:11:00]  Nope, not an accident.
[01:11:01]  It was state-directed.
[01:11:03]  We know all of this stuff now.
[01:11:04]  This huge victory and nationalism helped it on.
[01:11:08]  And immigration was a threat to it.
[01:11:11]  So he kind of adapted and changed his mind from that.
[01:11:14]  Likewise, I think Stephan Molyneux has looked around and said, Look, I know there are these Brian Kaplan guys and some really good libertarians who I really admire and love.
[01:11:23]  And they go, look, I have all these abstract models worked out, and immigration is a net benefit to the economy, and everything's fine, and we should just have open borders.
[01:11:33]  But then they look at what happened in Europe over the last decade and they go, I don't know, it doesn't really seem to be helping the economy that much.
[01:11:39]  You look at California and they have more poverty than any other state in the Union.
[01:11:43]  There's more people living below the poverty line in California than any other state in the Union.
[01:11:47]  And a big part of that might be that, you know, a lot of really poor people have come over into California.
[01:11:54]  Maybe the theoretical model isn't perfect.
[01:11:57]  Maybe it doesn't apply to every single situation.
[01:12:00]  Like specifically with the one in Europe, it's like, okay, if you have immigration in America and people have to get on boats from thousands of miles away and come over here, you know, and there's no welfare state and you have a free society.
[01:12:14]  You have a lot of people, I mean, relatively, you know, but pre-welfare state immigration, which is the model Americans kind of go on.
[01:12:21]  And you have people who saved up money, got it together to come over here, came over because they wanted to live in a free society where they would be free of government tyranny.
[01:12:31]  Okay, we had big waves of immigration and then big waves of complete slowdowns.
[01:12:35]  And it was able to work, you know, fairly well with some hiccups, but worked fairly well.
[01:12:40]  That might be a little bit different than when we just overthrow Gaddafi and waves of people from war-torn third world countries come pouring into Europe right away.
[01:12:49]  Maybe that won't work out as well.
[01:12:50]  I mean, it's, you know, like people, like, I know Stefan Molyneux used to feel that way, but maybe he is to some degree adjusting to real world circumstances.
[01:12:58]  I'm not as charitable in his adjustment as you.
[01:13:02]  I'm aware.
[01:13:03]  Well, this is the thing.
[01:13:04]  Look, I think this seems like.
[01:13:07]  Go ahead.
[01:13:09]  I was going to say it seems like a switch to pandering to the Trump crowd to me.
[01:13:13]  It's kind of how I took it.
[01:13:14]  Well, perhaps.
[01:13:15]  Perhaps.
[01:13:16]  Maybe I'm just giving him a more charitable interpretation.
[01:13:19]  Maybe the fact is that I think he's done such great work in spreading anarcho-capitalism, spreading peaceful parenting, challenging the warfare state, challenging the Federal Reserve, that I go, okay, he's earned from me giving him the benefit of the doubt, giving him a charitable interpretation of what he's saying.
[01:13:36]  Now, maybe I'm being naive.
[01:13:38]  Maybe I'm wrong for that.
[01:13:39]  However, for the fakertarians page and for young guys like yourself, I think maybe it's not the worst idea that if people are good libertarian anarcho-capitalists in lots of areas, that we at least give them the benefit of the doubt.
[01:13:53]  Look, I wasn't against giving Bill Weld the benefit of the doubt.
[01:13:56]  I talked about this when Nick Sarwak was on my on my podcast.
[01:14:00]  He said, so since Bill Weld supported the war in Iraq, is he irredeemable now?
[01:14:06]  And I said, absolutely not.
[01:14:07]  You know, Walter Jones supported the war in Iraq, and that guy redeemed himself before his death as much as anybody did, you know?
[01:14:14]  And like, I'm fine with that.
[01:14:16]  Like, so many libertarians used to be neocons or used to be.
[01:14:19]  And that's fine.
[01:14:20]  But you got to actually demonstrate a little bit to me.
[01:14:23]  You know, it's like, I'm not saying maybe Bill Weld did become a libertarian, but I would say you can't be the standard bearer.
[01:14:29]  I don't think you should be running for president with Gary Johnson.
[01:14:31]  I think like you need to spend some time.
[01:14:33]  And I say the same thing with Lincoln Chaffee.
[01:14:34]  I actually have a lot of respect for Lincoln Chaffee.
[01:14:36]  You know, he got some things wrong, but he was an anti-war Democrat in the Senate.
[01:14:42]  There were not too many of them.
[01:14:44]  They were all in the House.
[01:14:45]  The Senate rolled over and supported the war in Iraq.
[01:14:47]  He was, you know, he was challenging Wolf Blitzer.
[01:14:51]  So I don't know.
[01:14:51]  Maybe we should be somewhat charitable without being stupid in these situations.
[01:14:57]  I do think people can change, but I just see the direction Molyneux is going, and I don't think it's a change in the right way.
[01:15:04]  Especially there's just some weird things he says every once in a while that really throw me off, like tweeting out, I wonder, did Jeffrey Epstein abuse any Jewish girls?
[01:15:16]  Like, I don't even, I don't even see the point in saying that in the first place, other than to appeal to the white nationalist crowd.
[01:15:23]  Maybe, I don't know.
[01:15:24]  I don't even understand what he's saying in that.
[01:15:26]  But again, I don't think this is super relevant.
[01:15:29]  It's like, I'm not, you know, it's the onus shouldn't be on me to either have to because Jews don't abandon their kids the way other races do.
[01:15:38]  And so you can't find them in the streets to get up.
[01:15:40]  He is abused.
[01:15:41]  He is a racist.
[01:15:42]  That was a compliment.
[01:15:43]  Well, listen, I'm just saying, I don't think the onus is on me to either agree with every tweet Stefan Molyneux said or not do his show or when I do his show, have every tweet prepared and go, hey, man, you didn't, you know, this tweet was, what did you mean by that?
[01:15:59]  Or what did you mean by this?
[01:16:00]  And also, I just don't, I don't know.
[01:16:02]  Look, man, I'm somebody who's doing my best, and I think doing a fairly decent job to convert new members to the libertarian philosophy, trying to push people into the libertarian party.
[01:16:15]  I'm supporting a guy, Jacob Hornberger, who I doubt you have much of a problem with.
[01:16:20]  That would be my guess, for the presidential ticket.
[01:16:25]  I just don't know.
[01:16:27]  I guess maybe I think it's a little bit petty and unfair to be criticizing me for using one word that you didn't like about Stephan Molyneux.
[01:16:35]  But, you know, I'm willing to let bygones be bygones.
[01:16:41]  What do you think?
[01:16:41]  Do you think I owe an apology for saying great?
[01:16:44]  I mean, like, I don't know.
[01:16:45]  I was trying to figure out how to wrap this up.
[01:16:47]  I still wouldn't call the guy great.
[01:16:49]  Like, just like I'm saying, like, I wouldn't call Richard Spencer great or Chris Cantwell great.
[01:16:54]  I know you don't think they're in that.
[01:16:56]  But how, no, I don't.
[01:16:57]  Listen, I just, I think, look, I understand it's somewhat arbitrary where exactly you draw the line.
[01:17:02]  But yes, I mean, Stefan Molyneux is not out there basing every view he has around race.
[01:17:09]  He's not openly calling for an ethnostate.
[01:17:12]  He's not open.
[01:17:12]  Like, he's not branding himself as a white nationalist.
[01:17:15]  Again, I would understand to where, look, I'm not a big fan of Richard Spencer or Christopher Cantwell.
[01:17:24]  I think they both say some kind of, you know, just things that it's just kind of dickish.
[01:17:31]  It's like, what's the point of fucking saying this?
[01:17:34]  That being said, I think John McCain's a lot worse than either of those guys were.
[01:17:39]  I think somebody who actually supports policies that slaughter people are much more the problem.
[01:17:44]  And I give the guys somewhat credit when they're right.
[01:17:46]  I mean, they are.
[01:17:47]  There is something really hilarious that we live in this world where everybody like in this culture, where calling someone racist is always like the thing of like, oh, this guy's a racist.
[01:17:58]  And yet the biggest racists, pretty much all, the biggest racists, you know, are pretty much all anti-war.
[01:18:04]  And then everybody in the respectable establishment who would be like, you could never be seen with one of these people, they'll support, you know, starving brown children to death in Yemen with no problem.
[01:18:14]  And so I don't know.
[01:18:15]  I hesitate to play by their rules, but no, those guys are a little too far for me.
[01:18:19]  I wouldn't call them great.
[01:18:21]  But again, I don't think, you know, I think it's somewhat apples to oranges.
[01:18:25]  Again, you wouldn't have a problem.
[01:18:26]  You would have a problem if I called Richard Spencer Christopher Cantwell great.
[01:18:30]  How about Pat Buchanan?
[01:18:31]  If I called him great, would that be okay?
[01:18:35]  There's some borderline things there over the years, but no problem with Tulsi.
[01:18:40]  No problem with Jimmy Doerr.
[01:18:42]  I didn't say I wouldn't have, I would kind of just be like, oh, why are you calling Tulsi great?
[01:18:46]  But I was saying that the actual there, I doubt there'd be as much of a public outcry about it.
[01:18:52]  So this is, I guess this is one of the issues that people, and this is why the term left libertarian, you know, gets gets lobbed at you guys sometimes, maybe unfairly to you guys.
[01:19:02]  And then maybe we've been called far right too, because we've called that.
[01:19:07]  That's me too.
[01:19:08]  I've been called literally everything.
[01:19:10]  I mean, I'm to the alt-right guys, I'm a left-winger.
[01:19:13]  To a lot of the people criticizing me, I'm an alt-right guy.
[01:19:16]  It's, you know, I can't really figure out where the hell I actually am.
[01:19:20]  But I'm an ANCAP libertarian.
[01:19:22]  That's what I actually am.
[01:19:24]  But that being said, it does seem a little bit like you're at least playing into the left wing's game if I get no, you know, I get very little pushback for calling Tulsi Gabbard or Jimmy Doerr or someone like that great, but I would get a lot of pushback for Pat Buchanan.
[01:19:42]  Like, why is that?
[01:19:43]  Like, why is it, I mean, okay, so he's bad on trade.
[01:19:46]  Guess what?
[01:19:46]  They're bad on the same exact trade issues that he is.
[01:19:49]  And then they're worse on like seven other issues.
[01:19:51]  There's no question.
[01:19:52]  Pat Buchanan, politically, ideal, ideologically, is way closer to me and you than Tulsi Gabbard is.
[01:19:59]  It's literally not even debatable.
[01:20:01]  When he was running for president in his top five like plans, it was like eliminate, like destroying the managerial state, lowering taxes, lowering regulations, ending wars, and then protectionism and immigration controls.
[01:20:14]  Like, okay, maybe we don't agree with that part, but it's way closer than what these lefties are.
[01:20:20]  But if I called Tulsi Gabbard great, you said you wouldn't know why.
[01:20:23]  But of course, you do know why, dude.
[01:20:25]  You know why I would be calling Tulsi Gabbard great if I called her great.
[01:20:28]  It's because she had the, she is the only politician other than Ron Paul in my lifetime who put the most important issue in first place of priorities and was pretty damn good on it.
[01:20:42]  That's why I would be calling her great, of course, because she was the only one who said my campaign is about being against genocide.
[01:20:50]  You know what I mean?
[01:20:50]  Like that's that's pretty great.
[01:20:53]  Well, with Molyneux, he tends to make immigration his big issue right now.
[01:20:56]  At least that's the way it seems to me.
[01:20:58]  And the whole race thing.
[01:20:59]  And I generally have a higher standard for people claiming to be libertarian.
[01:21:03]  Like, obviously, Gabbard knows she's a Democrat.
[01:21:06]  She's not going to say, oh, taxation is theft and then go around supporting the wall.
[01:21:10]  Okay, sure.
[01:21:11]  So I get that.
[01:21:13]  But at the same time, I'm just saying, like, why is it that Pat Buchanan, forget Molyneux for a second?
[01:21:17]  Why is it that Pat Buchanan is a problem?
[01:21:20]  Like, I would get more pushback, even from your circles, you know this, for calling Pat Buchanan great than for calling Tulsi Gabbard great, even though he's much closer to us.
[01:21:28]  Like, I'm not, I'm not, like, why is it that this, like, accusation of racism somehow trumps, you know, disastrous economic policies?
[01:21:37]  Why is that worse?
[01:21:39]  I mean, I don't know that it's necessarily worse.
[01:21:41]  Well, then what is it?
[01:21:42]  Why do you think in your circles I would get more criticism for calling Pat Buchanan great than Tulsi Gabbard?
[01:21:48]  My guess would be the immigration position.
[01:21:51]  But then again, I actually have seen, and I don't know how I have a circle, but then there's a circle to the left of me too.
[01:21:59]  Right.
[01:21:59]  You know what I mean?
[01:22:00]  And I feel like some of them would push back on Tulsi because there's Sam Coppinger.
[01:22:06]  I saw Joshua Smith was talking to you about him.
[01:22:10]  I think he would push back on Tulsi.
[01:22:12]  Well, I'm not familiar with who he is, but yes, Josh was like, you should have him on your show too.
[01:22:18]  And I was like, let's just do one at a time here.
[01:22:21]  Josh actually co-founded the page with me.
[01:22:24]  Co-founded the Fakertarians page.
[01:22:27]  Well, how far you've fallen since Joshua Smith got out of that game.
[01:22:32]  So are you, do you support Joshua for chair of the LP?
[01:22:36]  Yeah, I was one of his biggest supporters last time around.
[01:22:38]  And who do you like for president?
[01:22:41]  I'm still open to stuff.
[01:22:43]  I like Hornburger.
[01:22:44]  I like Kokash.
[01:22:46]  As long as it's not Chaffee, I think I'll be okay.
[01:22:49]  Yeah.
[01:22:49]  All right.
[01:22:50]  Well, there you go.
[01:22:51]  So there's more than a few redeeming qualities to you, young man.
[01:22:55]  Okay.

=== Wednesday Night Tickets (02:12) ===

[01:22:56]  Well, listen, we're going to have to wrap up on that.
[01:22:59]  I will say I very much appreciate you coming on.
[01:23:02]  I get where you're coming from.
[01:23:03]  I hope you get where I'm coming from.
[01:23:06]  And I enjoyed our conversation very much.
[01:23:07]  So good luck in the future.
[01:23:10]  I think that I certainly agree with you.
[01:23:13]  We need Lincoln Chafee to not be the guy.
[01:23:15]  By the way, thank you for coming on board, Lincoln Chaffee.
[01:23:18]  Welcome to the Libertarian Party.
[01:23:20]  I think it's great that he wants to support it, and he should start reading some Rothbard and figure out what libertarianism is.
[01:23:27]  But yeah, that guy cannot be the guy representing the party this time coming around.
[01:23:31]  But seriously, if there's anything else you want to plug or where people can check out your shit, let everyone know.
[01:23:37]  Just so you can check us out at facebook.com/slash fakertarians.
[01:23:41]  And we also have a discussion group that we've purposely made accessible.
[01:23:44]  So it's a lot of fun.
[01:23:45]  Oh, there you go.
[01:23:47]  I've gotten a little taste of it, and I would agree with your assessment.
[01:23:50]  Well, thank you very much.
[01:23:51]  We just invite.
[01:23:52]  No, no, no, go ahead.
[01:23:53]  I was going to say we just invite the worst people of all political ideologies into it, and it's just kind of a free-for-all, but it's a lot of fun.
[01:23:59]  All right.
[01:23:59]  Well, that does sound somewhat entertaining.
[01:24:02]  All right, John.
[01:24:02]  Thank you very much for coming on.
[01:24:03]  I appreciate it.
[01:24:05]  And thank you, everybody, for listening.
[01:24:06]  That's our show for today.
[01:24:08]  We will be back on Wednesday with a brand new episode.
[01:24:11]  Oh, we're going to be in Boston.
[01:24:14]  Rob, let him know.
[01:24:15]  I got to really look at this before.
[01:24:17]  It's February 7th.
[01:24:19]  What's the name of the club again?
[01:24:21]  It's like the Hideaway, the Hideaway.
[01:24:23]  Hideaway.
[01:24:23]  That's the Hideaway.
[01:24:24]  You get the Hideaway on February 7th.
[01:24:26]  There are a lot of tickets left, so don't wait.
[01:24:28]  I contacted him the other day.
[01:24:30]  I think we've sold 75% of the tickets so far.
[01:24:32]  So get on it.
[01:24:34]  Don't wait.
[01:24:34]  Let's sell the thing out.
[01:24:35]  Maybe we'll find a second venue for a second show.
[01:24:37]  I don't know.
[01:24:38]  But don't be the guy who hits us up week of, hey, when are you going to be in Boston?
[01:24:42]  Or I couldn't get any tickets.
[01:24:43]  Or I don't know what else.
[01:24:45]  I'll tweet out the ticket link after the show, but you got to go.
[01:24:50]  The room's selling out fast.
[01:24:51]  And also, you got to beat the LOS fans because we haven't even plugged it on.
[01:24:54]  I'm going to plug it on LOS today.
[01:24:55]  So by Friday, it's going to be gone.
[01:24:57]  So you got between now and Friday to get yourself some tickets.
[01:25:01]  All right.
[01:25:01]  Sounds good.
[01:25:02]  And don't forget, check out Run Your Mouth podcast.
[01:25:04]  Follow Rob at Robbie the Fire on Twitter.
[01:25:06]  All right.
[01:25:06]  That's our show.
[01:25:07]  See you Wednesday.