Nov. 25, 2025 - Human Events Daily - Jack Posobiec
47:58
Will Russia Agree To New Ukraine Peace Deal?
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This is Human Events with your host, Jack Pisovic.
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This morning, Arizona Senator Mark Kelly, defiant after the Pentagon announced it's investigating him for serious allegations of misconduct after he and five other Democratic lawmakers posted a video urging U.S. service members not to follow illegal orders.
I was a captain in the United States Navy.
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Former Navy. Kelly, who flew 39 combat missions in Iraq before going on to become an astronaut, now threatened with a court-martial for saying this.
Our laws are clear.
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The president furious at the lawmakers, labeling them traitors and accusing them of, quote, seditious behavior, punishable by death.
The White House is supportive of the Department of War's investigation into Senator Mark Kelly.
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In twin rulings, the judge found prosecutor Lindsey Halligan was unlawfully appointed, writing, quote, all actions flowing from Miss Halligan's defective appointment constitute unlawful exercise of executive power and must be set aside.
Overnight, an intense barrage of Russian missiles and drones raining down on the Ukrainian capital for more than six hours as negotiations intensify between the U.S., Russia, and Ukraine.
Officials are saying Russia targeted power stations, two residential buildings also hit.
I don't know if you heard that.
We're now getting intense Russian bombardments of the capital.
At least seven people killed, according to officials.
The mayor saying seven out of ten of the capital's districts now suffering power disruptions.
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome aboard today's edition of Human Events Daily.
We're here live, Phoenix, Arizona.
Today is November 25th, 2025.
Anno Domini.
I wanted to just take a quick moment before we get into today's top story.
I want to get into this Ukraine peace deal.
Will the Russians agree?
Will Ukraine agree?
But I'm out here in Phoenix, and this is Charlie's old studio that I'm sitting in right now.
This desk right here, Charlie's original desk where he launched the Charlie Kirk show and been here many times.
He was gracious enough to allow me to use it to launch human events daily.
And I've had my family here.
I've had, obviously, his family's been here.
He and I have been here for debates and laughter and so many stories and so many things.
And yeah, it just really takes you back sometimes to realize that there's so much important in this world and there's so much going on.
that you do need to take a step back sometimes and realize that everything could change in the blink of an eye.
And don't ever forget that.
Just don't ever forget that we live in a real world, an actual world.
And when we talk about cases of violence, that's why, that's why ending the Ukraine war is so important.
And that's why this peace deal is so important.
If President Trump and Secretary Driscoll, who's now been taking the lead on these negotiations, if they can get this done, it's so important because the Ukrainians and the Russians, they're going into their Christmas time as well.
And for every single soldier lost on the battlefield, that's a family that's got a son that doesn't come home.
That's a family that's got a dad that they're never going to see again.
Just like Charlie's kids are never going to see their dad again.
This is real stuff.
And for people who want to play games with acts of violence, with acts of war and say, oh, well, it's not really that big of a deal.
And we'll just keep fighting.
And Russia will keep, you know, having to throw more men into it.
It's disgusting, actually, when I see people who want to continue this thing.
And it's actually horrific because why don't you go over there?
And so many of them refuse to.
Why don't you go over there and actually meet with the people who've got to live with missiles flying over their heads every day, who've got to dodge bullets just so they can get to the grocery store, who've got to deal with drone warfare all over the place, and who have to see their sons getting dragged to the front.
You want that?
Would you want that for your children?
Because that's the reality of warfare.
It's not some grandiose, romantic scheme.
It's people dying in disgusting and disfiguring ways.
It's bodies that are blown apart so much that you can't actually put them back together to bring them home.
Closed caskets every time.
So that's what you want.
That's what you're supporting if you support more war.
That's what you're getting.
And that's what we see.
That's certainly what we see.
And I'm not going to sit here and play some games like, oh, well, who started it?
Who started?
Look, look, there's a war and people are dying.
Now, this deal, the Russians said they like the 28-point plan, the 19-point plan that came out as well, that the Ukrainians said they agreed to.
I'm just going to say right now, I don't think the Russians are going to agree to this.
I said that on War Room this morning.
I'm going to continue.
I do not think the Russians will go on board with this because they do not want Ukraine in NATO at all.
Not even an option, not even a possibility.
NO.
They want full neutralization, neutral status for Ukraine, and they view it as an existential threat to Russia.
Now, you can disagree and you can say, I don't think you're right, all you want, but you've got to convince them of that.
Ladies and gentlemen, the enemy always gets a vote.
We'll be right back, Human Events Daily.
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So folks, we're digging in more on this Ukraine deal.
Will it last?
Will it be agreed to?
I wanted to bring Mike Benz on now from the Foundation for Freedom Online.
Benz, you've done the yeoman's work on explaining why Ukraine really became this vocal point so much going all the way back to President Trump's first impeachment, Hunter Biden, the burisma dealings.
And I guess I wanted to say, Benz, is that if this thing is actually to wind down, this is going to be a huge problem for a lot of people in power, both in the United States and across Europe, isn't it?
Yeah, it's a little complicated, though, because I do think that they do want the kinetic military activity that Russia is conducting to wind down in the sense that I think that some of the, well, not some,
but almost all of the exuberance in the early initial 2022 forays when there was a thought that actually Russia had misstepped and that they were actually much weaker than NATO feared they might be.
And it looked like Ukraine was having some early victories.
There was, I think, a hope that Ukraine could militarily take this all the way and then end up with a regime change inside of Moscow and another Boris Yeltsin resurrected and put in Putin's place.
And instead, Ukraine is now reporting loss after loss.
Every update I seem to see on it seems to be another territory, another town, another very one-sided victory for Russia on the military battlefield.
And I do think that the goal of the peace, there's kind of a Trump goal and there's a Blob goal for peace.
I think the Trump goal is to have a lasting peace.
I think the Blob goal is to have a temporary peace and then to use that peace to build up a larger military presence to eventually either win a paramilitary covert war or a full-on war the next time something like this can be provoked through another 2014 style Maidan style coup in another kind of Russian satellite area.
But basically the whole play here is about Eurasia.
And that's what this is all about.
It's about the $75 trillion worth of natural resources inside of Russia.
It's about control over the entire Eurasian landscape.
And ultimately, it'll be about regime change inside of Russia to make that happen.
And so also the pacification of all the Russian military support for countering many NATO commercial and political activities in Africa, in Central Asia, and to a lesser extent.
Well, I wouldn't even count really Latin America anymore at this point.
So we are hearing, by the way, I wanted to just throw out just before we went live today, and this is what I've been saying all morning: the White House has come out and said, well, additional discussions are now going to be required among Ukraine, the United States, and Russia as the countries work to hammer out this deal.
So Dan Driscoll, of course, we know is meeting with Russian officials in Abu Dhabi right now.
Lavrov, what did Lavrov said?
It could be rejected if the terms are fundamentally different to the understanding that was reached during the Trump-Putin summit in Alaska a few months ago.
I was actually had the opportunity to attend that summit.
It was really incredible to just be there and be in the room, at least when the meeting got started with Lavrov, et cetera.
And what are we also hearing?
Zelensky wants to bring the Europeans in.
And I think that's kind of what went on here because, Benz, you know, I think there's a lot of story here that we're told that Vice President JD Vance came in and he's the one that really got Driscoll into the new position as this point man for these discussions, for these negotiations.
They knew that the previous discussions had really been at loggerheads.
So he said, you know, why not send this guy over and let's just sit down with the Russians and hammer something out.
But it seems, though, that when the Ukrainians get involved, they always want to bring in Europe.
And when they bring in Europe, that always seems to bring in the blob as well.
Oh, completely.
I mean, if you remember.
Because that's NATO, because that's where all of NATO is.
Exactly.
Right.
Trump is not negotiating with Ukraine on this peace deal.
He's negotiating with Great Britain and the captured, you know, parts of France and Germany who sort of work themselves into Zelensky's body to negotiate for him because that is who is picking up the slack.
I mean, Europe is now trying to create its own army.
We just had Andersvo Grasmussen, the head of NATO during Obama.
I'm going to read what he tweeted this morning.
I'm now calling for Europe to deploy up to 20,000 troops behind Ukraine's front lines, establish an air shield with 150 combat aircraft and unlock frozen Russian assets, meaning seize Russian assets, which would cause an absolute firestorm in the international markets and make it unlikely that any sane invest, any sane sovereign country would ever invest in Europe again, if not directly under the barrel of a gun.
But that is the animating spirit of France, Germany, the UK, to some extent Norway, the Dutch.
It's the EU.
And that's Soros Town.
This is where all this reconstruction money is coming, apart from the U.S., which, you know, so you basically have Democrats, the remaining Never Trump Republicans, and Europe working into Zelensky's body to tell him what to do and not to do.
And, you know, the way they've changed the terms from this deal are just hilarious.
I mean, right now, Ukraine is just completely subsumed in this multi-billion dollar corruption scandal where they're finding $100 million and Embezzled cat $100 million in embezzled cash, golden toilets, the highest levels of the Ukrainian government, from the folks in their energy ministry to, I mean,
what appear to be the second and third in command of Zelensky himself.
Meanwhile, Ukraine has still not held a vote in over five years.
They've canceled elections indefinitely.
That remains.
Meanwhile, it just I think LiberNet just posted a giant tapestry of the German censorship industrial complex.
And I was, I found it humorous that they rep one of the 330 German government-funded censorship organizations in the report is an institution called Radar, which is part of the USAID censorship network.
And Radar was taking German taxpayer dollars to monitor social media discourse in Ukraine to stop what it called false narratives that delegitimized the Kiev government.
So all stops are being pulled to shore up this kind of seemingly coke-addled, dysfunctional, corrupt government as its corpse is propped up and marionetted by a bunch of EU blobsters and ballots.
And one of the big pressure points on this is something that you've been talking about here for years.
And this came out publicly, and you don't hear any coverage of this really in the West, that Zelensky's justice minister and the Minister of Energy, Minister of Justice, Minister of Energy, both resigned just days ago, like two weeks ago in Kiev on the backs of a $100 million kickback scheme involving, you guessed it, the state-owned energy company and Energo Atom, which is actually their nuclear company.
And the ringleader of the scheme was, of course, one of Zelensky's close business partners.
I mean, you just can't make it up, can you?
No, you certainly can't.
But what I thought was so interesting, and I'm just trying to pull up the exact language here, but part of the original Trump proposal, I believe, to Ukraine was that there would be a full audit.
Part of the conditions of the deal would be a full audit of aid money to Ukraine.
And then as the scandal unfolded, the language was changed to instead offer an amnesty that essentially all crimes committed by the Kiev government, if they agreed to this peace deal, would be effectively absolved or pardoned so that there would be no truth and reconciliation committee or transitional justice in a post-Zelensky.
So they're trying to set the stage for terms in which the Zelensky mafia will feel inclined to, as part of the peace terms, go back to being something even nominally pretending to be a democracy, i.e., some path to holding a vote on an election again.
But everyone knows Zelensky would lose.
And undoubtedly, the successor Justice Department or Justice Ministry would be saddled with all of these.
And they'd have to figure out exactly what to do.
right back, Jack Posobiec, Mike Benz.
These are influencers.
And they're friends of mine.
Jack Pisovic.
Where's Jack?
Jack?
He's got a great job.
All right, Jack Roselbick back live with Mike Benz.
We're talking the latest on this Ukraine potential peace deal.
We have also heard some Macron just came out.
We're confirming that now and said after they just held a call with the quote-unquote coalition of the willing.
Now, you remember that was who came to the White House to meet with President Trump and Zelensky the day after Zelensky, or excuse me, Trump and Putin met in Anchorage, Alaska.
Now they're saying, now Macron is saying that European-led security guarantees for Kiev could involve the United States.
So, Benz, what we're looking at here is this is pushing everything into the reconstruction and this new potential military situation.
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Mike Benz, what's the latest that you're hearing?
Well, you know, as we were just talking about, found the Wall Street Journal reporting that in the apparent move to expose corruption, the initial U.S. draft called for an audit of all international aid Ukraine had received.
The Wall Street Journal reports the language was changed to say all parties will receive full amnesty for their actions during the war.
So instead of agreeing to have all the international aid Ukrainians received be audited, instead, apparently the provision was changed to say no audit and no matter what crimes we committed in embezzling funds, we're not going to be criminally liable anyway.
So that's fine.
So Ukraine changed one of the 28 provisions that it's talking for an international audit of all the funds that came in, that it's not going to be an audit.
It's in fact going to be an amnesty for any, which, you know, and by the way, amnesty is something that you receive for crime.
It's not something that you receive for, you know, benevolent acts or acts of charity.
No, it's, it's amnesty is something or a pardon is something you receive for for committing a crime.
Right.
Well, this is, I mean, this is just so thematic, right?
I mean, this is like, remember when they tried to sell the Ukraine aid as being, oh, it's, we're no longer just giving unconditional no-strings attached grants to Ukraine.
We're going to make them loans.
It was an investment we were going to make money off.
They were forgivable at any time and have no interest and no maturity date and are forgivable on demand.
Like, it's, it's, uh, Ben, here's, here's something we should actually think about is, And just in a true sense, is the government of Ukraine and the economy, whatever economy is left of Ukraine, does it actually resemble a real government and a real country's administration?
Or does this, this seems to me like they're like one of these subcontractors that USAID would be working with in one of these like shady groups.
They don't seem like a real government at all.
Right.
And remember, one of the leading figures within Ukrainian state media said after USAID shutdown or the shutdown was initiated that this would devastate Ukraine's media because over 90% of Ukraine's media institutions and outlets were funded directly by USAID.
So 90% of Ukraine's media was funded by USAID, including the Kiev Independent, very independent.
But there's now this mad, I mean, it's important to remember the stakes.
Ukraine sits on $14 trillion worth of natural resources between the shale, the petroleum, the rare earth minerals.
And so there is what's what's $300 billion in taxpayer money for a $14 trillion potential reward?
That's kind of the thought process.
Of course, we're not going to get our $300 billion back.
That is basically subsidized R D capital for, you might say, for military industrial complex contractors, big mining companies, big gas giants, and big agriculture companies.
And that's what's happening.
Ukraine is being put through shock therapy.
While it is firing off the machine guns like a madman, it is convulsing at the biological and cellular level as it is being sold off nucleus by nucleus every sell to another Wall Street and London trading firm.
This is what's been happening now.
And that's, by the way, and just in our final minute, that is why there's so much language in here about the reconstruction, who's paying for it.
They're using these frozen Russian assets, but then also who benefits from the reconstruction as well, isn't it?
Yeah, well, it is.
And this is where I come back to how this impacts things at home.
The special envoy for Ukraine reconstruction under the Biden administration was none other than Penny Pritzker.
Penny Pritzker, who was the sponsor of Barack Obama's Senate career before he became president, then became Barack Obama's commerce secretary and now manages the entire Harvard endowment, the $56 billion Harvard endowment fund, while simultaneously running Ukraine reconstruction.
Harvard very famously invested in and pilfered Russian state assets when it was paid by USAID.
I think $350 million it got from USAID, the Harvard Institute for International Development under Jeffrey Sachs and Larry Summers.
And then they did it again in Ukraine in the 1990s, and I'm sure they're doing it here, which is why I have been calling repeatedly for this administration to condition all federal grants to all universities on total transparency about the investment activities of private endowments.
If you're going to qualify for $1 of federal government grants, we need to see every investment that endowment is making so we know whether or not what people are being taught at home.
Dark Harvard.
So give him a follow, folks.
Mike Benz, Mike Benz, Cyber.
Take care, Mike.
Where's Jack?
Where's Jack?
Where is he?
Jack, I want to see you.
Great job, Jack.
Thank you.
What a job you do.
You know, we have an incredible thing.
We're always talking about the fake news and the bad, but we have guys, and these are the guys should be getting policies.
All right, Jack Poseboquer, back live, Human Events Daily Phoenix, Arizona.
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All right, folks, we got Will Chamberlain coming up next, Article 3 Project.
Will, this story broke right as the show was going live yesterday.
And I was thinking we need a lawyer, but I had like two minutes.
I was going to try to book you, but you're a little busy for us yesterday.
But apparently you weren't too busy to go on the war room with Steve Bannon, were you, Will?
No, I was very happy to go on the war room with Steve Bannon, but I really should have gone on with you because Steve decided to play 10 minutes of MSNBC clips, which really was just gratuitous and unnecessary for a first time guest.
He tortures his audience through this every day.
And he says, I'm just trying to toughen you up.
I'm just trying to toughen you up.
You got to get used to it.
You got to get stronger.
So he's working over his forces.
But yes, I've had to endure those many, many times.
And you had to endure the Cove Pure commercial read, which really wasn't really all that bad at all.
It's really nice with Tanya Loves.
It's a lot nicer than James Comey's visage.
Are you kidding?
I'd listen to 50 activities before I listen to a bit of Comey.
So walk us through, though.
And by the way, it makes a great Christmas gift.
Walk us through, though, this whole contention about, because it really seems to me, and I haven't gone through, obviously, the law like you have, the appointment of Lindsay Halligan, that seems to be what this judge in Virginia is hanging all of this on.
That's something where, of course, now I remember a number of people made this a similar argument regarding Jack Smith, but that was because he was a special counsel.
She's not a special counsel.
She's a U.S. attorney, which is a routine position.
So Will, the floor is yours.
Yeah, so you've highlighted an interesting distinction, which is special counsels also have to, are inferior officers, most likely, just like U.S. attorneys.
And for inferior officers, there's a number of ways to confirm them or appoint them.
You can go through the normal presidential advice and consent process with the Senate, or the Congress can, by statute, create a method for you to be appointed to a particular position.
And that's what happens with these interim U.S. attorneys.
There's a statute, I believe it's 28 U.S.C. or it's either 18 or 28.
I forget off the top of my head, 456, that deals with how these vacancies work.
And so it's a kind of poorly worded, a little bit ambiguous statute, honestly, but the best reading of it is that it basically gives the attorney general the ability to appoint interim U.S. attorneys for 120-day periods whenever there's a vacancy.
And it also gives concurrent authority to the local district court to do so in the event that the political branches, for whatever reason, can't get their act together and make an appointment.
But that authority. should be understood as concurrent.
It's not exclusive.
And there's a couple of reasons why.
I mean, first off, the language of the statute is pretty clear by its terms.
There's only one exception to the attorney general's authority, and that is that they're not allowed to appoint people who have been affirmatively rejected by the Senate.
And then the second reason that's the appropriate reading is because there's a major constitutional problem with saying that the only way to appoint an executive branch official or the only people that can appoint an executive branch official are district court judges.
That gives Article III judges the power to appoint Article II officials and not just any power, but the exclusive power.
So that's every time we've been seeing over the last year where there have been attempts to defend independent agencies from presidential supervision, those attempts have failed.
And Congress just can't pass statutes that vest Article II appointment authority exclusively in entities that aren't the presidency.
So when this comes down to it, there was an interim vacancy and they went and appointed Lindsey Halligan.
Was this done?
So Will, in your reading, was this lawful?
Yeah, in my reading, this was absolutely lawful.
And the government put out a very, very good brief on this subject.
I thought that was very, very clear in terms of explaining what the language was.
The alternative view requires a very, very aggressive reading of the statute that effectively requires reading exclusivity, exclusive words like only or, you know, the only way to apply.
Those words just don't appear in the statute.
And by its terms, subsection A of that statute is just, it's really clear on its terms.
If there's a vacancy, the attorney general can make an interim appointment, period.
Will, would you kind of refer to that as maybe, oh, I don't know, a Weissman reading of the statute?
A Weissman reading of the statute.
Yes.
And it's weird because to be fair, there's a lot of district judges who have made this mistake.
But if we've learned anything from the last year or so is that district judges ruling against the Trump administration is not something that tends to stick.
When the administration decides to appeal, there's something like a 92% success rating of the Supreme Court, which is unprecedented, unprecedented for an administration to be doing this well.
And that's because district judges are aggressively trying to find ways to thwart the actions of the Trump administration.
And this is the most classic example.
You know, James Comey has a lot of relationships in the Eastern District of Virginia and elsewhere.
He has a lot of relationships among Democratic politicians.
They're very upset that he's being indicted for perjuring himself in front of Congress.
And they're going to pull out all the stops to try and stop the indictment.
It's one of the reasons that people often can be frustrated that things don't happen more quickly.
But this is a classic example of even when the administration does things properly, there are a whole bunch of roadblocks put in their way.
So it's really important that to the extent they can, they cross their eyes and dot their T or cross their T's and dot their I's.
Well, and this is what they're going to do.
And the reason I refer to Weissman readings is because we know that this is, and I remember you conducting this incredible analysis of the obstruction statute when Weissman was trying to urge and when he ran the Mueller investigation, and he's now on MSNBC all the time.
He's constantly trying to find ways.
This is like his one trick in a sense.
He's constantly trying to find ways to twist statutes into readings that don't actually fit the plain text reading or the common sense reading of the words and use them then in effect to block whatever Trump is doing or in the previous case of Mueller actually launch an indictment of a sitting president of the United States or at least urge an indictment that would turn into an impeachment.
But it's always sort of this one trick, isn't it?
Yeah, it's a very aggressive liberal lawyering is the one trick, right?
And it's aggressive statutory interpretation, novel statutory interpretation, the novel use of statutes.
One of the really interesting things here is that, you know, we talked about this endlessly during the Biden administration when they were going after Trump, how aggressively they were interpreting 1512 subsection C2 to try and expand this catch-all obstruction statute into something that encompassed what the president did on January 6th.
And it's an obstruction of justice statute.
So this is about the destruction of evidence.
It's not about stopping the count in the Electoral College count.
So this is yet another example of that where, but now it's going the other direction in the sense that before they were trying to interpret statutes in a novel way in order to expand prosecutorial authority.
Now that the Republicans are in control of it, they're coming up with these novel and eccentric interpretations of statutes to constrain prosecutorial authority.
Constrained prosecutorial authority, which is amazing.
So the Weissman standard is, depends on what side of the football he's on.
In one case, oh, the prosecutor should be able to do whatever he wants.
But now that Lindsey Halligan is the prosecutor, oh, no, we have to constrain prosecutory authority.
Think of our standing as a, you know, as a free republic.
And I mean, my gosh, if we just allowed these prosecutors to do whatever they want, it's really amazing when you think about it.
You'd be forgiven for thinking that the entire game of progressive lawyering is Calvin Ball.
You would be forgiven for thinking that.
That's basically what we're dealing with.
Will, for those who don't know, what is Calvin Ball?
Oh, Calvin Ball is a cartoon.
I mean, I guess I'm showing my age, right?
Because we had Calvin and Hobbes when we were kids, but Calvin and Hobbes is a great cartoon.
And Calvin Ball is the famous game that is come up with by Calvin, which is just basically whatever rule he can make up any rules he wants to at any time.
And it always ensures that he wins the game no matter what.
That being said, anyone who's got small children knows Calvin Ball because that's exactly how my kids play pretty much every single game that I come up with with, or they come up with, they say, Daddy, let's play this game.
And then we're playing.
And I say, well, that's against the rules.
Oh, no, there's actually a rule that you don't know about.
Oh, really?
Right.
So that's, you know, that's as crazy as this is, folks.
And, you know, we're laughing, but it's ridiculous what they're doing to our system because you have actual judges will sit there and play these mental gymnastic games while presiding over the destruction of our country and running Ralphshod over the actual system of justice.
This is Jack Prasovic, Will Chamberlain.
We'll be right back here at Human Events Daily.
He's written a fantastic book.
Everybody's talking about it.
Go get it.
And he's been my friend right from the beginning of this whole beautiful event.
And we're going to turn it around and make our country quite against him.
Amen.
All right, Jack Posovic, we're back with Will Chamberlain, lawyer for the senior attorney for the Article 3 project.
Will, the other piece that I wanted to get in with you is this situation regarding the Uniform Code of Military Justice and the fact that Senator Mark Kelly, himself a retired United States Navy captain in 06, equivalent to a colonel in the Army or Marine Corps, is supposedly now under investigation by the Pentagon.
Now, this is something where, and I'll just say as having been a military, both enlisted and an officer, that the UCMJ is something that's explained to you day one.
This isn't some gotcha.
This isn't Calvin Ball.
And you also know that if you retire and you take that pension, if you're getting those checks, then you are still subject to the uniform code of military justice.
So Will, looking at it from that perspective, this idea of whether or not his comments and actions do actually form the basis for a sedition charge in a court martial, which is different from a civilian court, do you think that potentially the government would have a case here?
Yeah, I mean, you know, my understanding, and you might actually know a little bit more about military law than I do because you were so deeply ingrained in it, but you're not allowed under it.
That you're not allowed to do things that knowingly undermine good order and discipline is my understanding.
And it's hard to imagine something that could undermine good order and discipline more than to say that they're not.
Believe it or not, actually, just to just to give you the lanes here, that's an entirely separate statute.
So, right.
So there's an article for good order and discipline 134.
This is like your general catch-all.
There's Article 92, which involves insubordination.
And then there is, of course, the sedition, sedition.
I had this pulled up a minute ago, the actual sedition article itself.
So, I mean, there's quite a few articles that cover this.
And then for a lot of people not understanding, if you take the pension, you are still considered subject to the uniform code of military justice.
Right.
And it's like we shouldn't have retired senior military officers who hold the esteem of being retired senior military officers saying things that undermine the good order and discipline of the army.
I mean, the fact that military service members can't obey unlawful orders or shouldn't obey is drilled into them from the beginning, but it's drilled into them in the context of the fact that they need to presume that orders are lawful and that they need to obey their superiors and that insubordination is punished as well.
So when you have six senators getting up there drilling in the sort of opposite message, you must not follow unlawful orders, while not being able to identify a single unlawful order that's been issued, everybody understands what you're doing.
Everybody understands that you're trying to foment discontent and insubordination in the military, which is something that you're prohibited from doing, something that Captain Mark Kelly is prohibited from doing and should know better.
No, and it's something, by the way, when you mentioned he should know better, this is something that, look, if a member of the military did this while they were serving, or, you know, I should say, you know, a regular member of the military, someone who's not, you know, a famous Democrat who takes selfies with Alex Soros and who's invested in Chinese spy balloon companies, right?
If you did something like this, then you would absolutely be, and you would either be brought to the captain's mast in the Navy, which is something we have for extrajudicial punishment.
And as an officer in high standing, like an 06, as he is and continues to be, by the way, because he's receiving a retirement retirement pension commensurate with his rank, then yes, he absolutely should face something like this.
And it's not about necessarily punishing Mark Kelly.
It's about upholding a broad standard for the entire military as an armed forces discipline.
Yeah, like you don't play games with insubordination in any military.
It's the most basic idea that you're, I mean, my whole understanding of, you know, I didn't go through boot camp, but you did, but the whole, my whole understanding of the point of boot camp is to sort of drill into you that your job is to say yes, sir, when you're given an order, among many other things.
So the last thing we should be doing is like aggressively making subordinates question whether they're being given lawful or unlawful orders constantly.
Like that's, you know, unlawful orders should be a giant bright glaring red light that is almost almost never happens is not going to happen to the vast majority of service members ever, if not any, you know, the complete vast majority.
And so for, you know, for these six senators to just be coming up with this out of nowhere and randomly like, and this, the strong insinuation, you know, those grave faces, like they're really deeply insinuating that there are unlawful orders coming from President Trump right now, but it's irresponsible for them to do that if they can't point to anything that they think is unlawful.
Right.
And so that's exactly what it's supposed to be.
And this whole idea of, you know, oh, you must disobey unlawful orders.
No, you know what?
We know what you're doing and we know exactly what you're doing.
You're not blank.
You're not, you know, you're not being coy.
You're not being clever.
It's very obvious.
And for me, I think that when I saw this come out in the first place, I recognized the Democrat plan from all the way back in 2019, the original impeachment of President Trump, which started with a member of the military working with a member of the intelligence community to leak a phone call with Zelensky.
Yes, the same President Zelensky and the same President Trump that led to this impeachment inquiry, which was all predicated on a quid pro quo that never actually took place in the transcript.
But what did it start with?
It started with members of the military and members of the intelligence community leaking on the commander in chief.
That's right.
Yeah.
And of course, Mr. Vinman's brother is now serving in Congress and apparently his playbook is about one page long because he's making the same sort of stunt where he's, you know, talking about how he saw the contents of a phone call when he worked for the Trump NSA and he's demanding that Trump release the contents of that phone call again.
Query whether or not that's yet again another violation of the classified materials rules.
Like whenever, you know, are you allowed?
You actually, again, you're, you're an expert in classified information because you yourself.
Can you, can you just talk about how the in what information you saw and how derogatory it is and how people should really release it so they can see how derogatory it is.
No, no, no, you cannot.
And even if you don't say exactly what the information is, you say, but it's super derogatory, I promise, and he should be forced to release it.
No.
No, you really, you really can't.
You really can't.
You can't make references to it.
And I would, I would urge, by the way, anyone to go through every single one of the tweets that I've ever written or statements that I've ever made on this show or any others to see if I've ever committed exactly what you're saying right now.
Because now I'm not under UCMJ because I didn't do 20 years to qualify for a retirement pension.
However, as a member of the intelligence community, I do have a lifetime NDA.
And so if I were to come on here and say, hey, Will and everybody gather around, I'm going to tell you about everything that took place down at Guantanamo Bay when I was there.
That would probably be my last episode.
Yeah, probably.
And rightfully so.
And so I feel like this, maybe this has gone under the radar because nobody's talking about investigating Eugene Vinman for mishandling classified information, but there's no doubt that the contents of that phone call between President Trump and MBS are like, and if they haven't been released, they are classified.
That is foreign diplomacy.
So the fact that he's insinuating he knows what's in those phone calls and demanding transcript releases on that basis, what?
This is a six-year-old form of phone call, too.
Like, what's the, there's no, there's no whistleblower protection for him now, you know, that he falsely, you know, flatly and frivolously asserted back in 2018.
Or I guess his brother, it's easy to confuse the two of them, right?
They both, you know, they both are named Vinmines are applauded by the Ukrainians.
They both leak classified phone calls.
And speaking of which, by the way, Will, we do have breaking news on Ukraine.
President Trump, we talked about this at the beginning of the show.
I know we only have about a minute left, but President Trump has just released a truth social saying that over the past week, my team has made tremendous progress with respect to ending the war between Russia and Ukraine.
Last month, 25,000 soldiers died.
The original 28-point peace plan, which was drafted by the United States, has been fine-tuned.
Additional input from both sides.
There are only a few remaining points of disagreement.
This is significant.
In the hopes of finalizing this peace plan, President Trump has directed his special envoy Steve Witkoff to meet with President Putin in Moscow.
And at the same time, Secretary of the Army Dan Driscoll will be meeting with the Ukrainians.
And so, really working forward to the final stages, potentially, of a peace plan.
That's breaking news from President United States himself.
Will, I wish we had more time.
We'll get you back on when we have more on these legal developments.
Where could people go to follow you in the interim?
At Will Chamberlain on X, and you can always follow what the Article III project is doing and join our campaigns at h3paction.com.
God bless, Will, and hope that you, Jordan, and the family have a great and happy Thanksgiving.
