Jan. 20, 2024 - Human Events Daily - Jack Posobiec
01:25:49
THOUGHTCRIME Ep. 29 — DEI or DIE? DeSantis's Bus Seat? The Drowning Gap?
In this week’s ThoughtCrime, Jack Posobiec, Charlie Kirk, Andrew Kolvet, and Blake Neff engage with many compelling questions, including: -Where should DeSantis and Haley backers be allowed to sit on the metaphorical Trump bus? -Will airline DEI make you DIE? -Is it racist to want people to drown less? -With so much real crime unpunished, why is Daniel Penny going on trial? THOUGHTCRIME streams LIVE exclusively on Rumble, every Thursday night at 8pm ET.Go ...
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Okay, everybody.
Happy Thought Crime Thursday.
We are here after a big streaming week, and we have Blake Neff.
Howdy.
Andrew.
Producer Andrew's in person.
Got you.
And remotely is Jack Posobiec.
Jack, how we doing?
I'm just really excited that producer Andrew was able to slip over the border after that swimming incident he had on the Rio Grande.
It's like, where's he going with this?
Yeah, it's true.
It's true.
The feds want me to report soon, but I'm here tonight.
That's not true.
They don't care about tracking anyone who crosses.
That would be one deportation they would do.
They asked where I wanted to go in the interior.
I said Phoenix.
That's where all the illegals are hanging out, so that's where I'm going.
That would be one deportation they would fulfill.
I'll tell you what.
Alright, so Jack, I spoke over you a lot during the Iowa livestream.
Sorry.
So therefore, we're going to give you uninterrupted time to talk about the back of the bus.
The wheels on the bus go round and round.
What is the bus?
Shall one go to the back of the bus?
Does the bus go forward?
Is it better to be in front of the bus or on the bus?
And is this a Rosa Parks moment?
Well, there are many spots on the bus.
Yeah, so I made the comment, and I was doing a live stream, I guess, on, well, my show, it wasn't a live stream, it was my show, the day after the Iowa primary, after our live stream, and this sort of debate had been raging online, and then you had mentioned it on air, and, you know, you come on right before me, so everyone was sort of having this conversation, it bled over into our shows, as these things do on social media, and then just sort of in the information space, and the question, of course, becomes,
What to do with the people who say they want to unite the party now that they realize that they were on the losing end of the primary?
And, you know, the question is, I think it's multifaceted.
And I had Rahim on, and we had some great questions and some great repartee about this.
And, you know, we've all been through a few election cycles at this point, so it's not like this is the first time we've encountered this question.
And I basically said it like this.
I said, look, there's a big bus.
The bus has a lot of seats on it.
Um, but not all seats are the same.
Some seats are in the front.
Some seats are in the middle.
Some seats are in the back by the bathrooms.
And yes, I was obviously playing off of the MLK, uh, stuff from earlier in this week.
And, and then I said, you know, but there are some people who don't get on the bus because, you know, well, I should say, by the way, there's also strap hangers, you know, for the people who are standing on the bus, there's a roof rack, there's people who maybe they can push the bus for a little while.
Uh, over here in the Northeast, we've had a lot of snow, so we'll need people to plow the roads in certain parts of the bus.
to Iowa as well, but then there's snakes.
Snakes are a lot allowed on the bus because there will be no snakes on the bus.
And I think that's pretty much where I come down on this.
You yourself said on the show that, you know, there's circles to this, inner circle, outer circle, far outer circle.
And then the one thing though that I would like to address, and I was on Sean Spicer's show yesterday, we had the same conversation, and maybe if I wasn't completely clear about this, I'm not talking about the voters, okay?
People said, whoa, whoa, if I supported someone else in the primary, I said, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
I'm not talking about voters.
I'm not talking about anything like that.
Look, I've been through enough election cycles to know politics, you win through addition, not subtraction.
So yes, we want every vote and everyone is welcome to vote for Donald Trump now.
I think everyone probably should have done that a year ago and saved us this ridiculous exercise, but okay, here we are.
Um, and so, look, yes, we do need every single vote that we can get.
That being said, what I was talking about were thought leaders.
Specifically thought leaders.
And for those thought leaders that weren't, you know, doing the things that they could be doing during the primary, there's one space.
But then there's a certain type of person that did not comport themselves very well during the primary.
You know, I got a call earlier today from my good buddy, Danny Lipman, over at Politico, and he said, he said, who are you talking about, Jack?
Who are you talking about?
And I said, and I said, did you see Jeremy Redfern on Twitter today?
And I said, this is just a perfect example.
And I understand that he's, you know, the governor's official staff as his press secretary, but he's also an influencer in many ways.
You can be official staff, you can be campaign staff.
In fact, by the way, if you are being a good staffer in modern politics, you should be an influencer.
Another discussion and I think you'll agree with me on that, that, you know, you should be out there every day defending your candidate, pushing narratives, responding to things in the news.
Everything is comms anymore.
And yet Jeremy Redford posted a tweet today from again, he's being paid by, I don't know, I don't think he was off today.
So it looked like he was on the clock being paid by the taxpayers of Florida saying that Donald Trump was missing from the campaign trail.
And not only was he missing, but the fact that he was in his basement.
Yeah, there's a major news cycle over the past 24 hours that Donald Trump asked to be let out of court today so that he could attend the funeral for his mother-in-law, for his wife's mother who died, his son's grandmother, okay, Amalia Kvas.
And this was a situation where These same people, these very same people, maybe not Jeremy directly, but the Distance Camp, had been attacking Melania Trump because she didn't appear at any of the holiday parties for Mar-a-Lago over the holidays, whether it be Christmas, whether it be New Year, she was, you know, conspicuously absent from Christmas photos and things, and they were attacking her as missing and saying that she was on the outs, and there's something Brian Stelter had done as a conspiracy theory during the administration at one point as well.
Well, it turns out that instead of just asking around, I mean, they're in Florida, it wouldn't be that hard to figure out if you had, like, actual sources, She was attending her mother while she was on her deathbed.
And so, you know, when I say no snakes on the bus, I'm thinking of people like this, specifically.
People like this, absolutely.
You're not just on the back of the bus.
We're throwing you out the back door of the back of the bus.
And people like Jamie Dimon, when they want to suddenly run around up there, plopping his gums, at Davos, at the World Economic Forum, on CNBC, wearing his Ukrainian lapel pin, Ukrainian flag lapel pin,
Suddenly, suddenly this guy who, yes, did pay $75 million to Jeffrey Epstein's victims because JP Morgan, which he's the chairman of, was the banker for Epstein's money, you know, he's suddenly talking about how important it is that he loves MAGA and Trump's a great guy and we shouldn't insult Trump voters and it's like, okay, I can see what's going on here.
I can see what's going on.
Certain people are on the bus, certain people are off the bus.
So, your take, Andrew, your response.
Well, I think, Jack, where this is coming from, people have to understand where this comes from in the context of everybody, at least at this table.
We've been through this in 2016, 2020, and I think universally there's a love, especially much, I don't mean to talk for you, Charlie, but massive influencers within the MAGA movement, Jack, Charlie, you guys have a universal love for Trump, the person. you guys have a universal love for Trump, the person.
You guys have sat with him, had dinner with him.
There is a genuine affection, I think, that goes both ways.
Where it starts breaking down, at least in past experiences, is there are certain people that glob onto power within the inner circles of the Trump orbits, right?
And that has created a lot of consternation in the past, a lot of burned bridges, a lot of hurt feelings, not necessarily with people here, but we've all heard about it.
And it is, on the one hand, something that's just necessary.
It's going to happen.
It's inevitable, rather, that you're going to have certain people that you're close with, not so close with within the Trump orbit.
But what we're saying is, listen, this has been a season where We know who our true friends are.
You have seen the people that will stick by you through thick and thin in this last season because it was very easy for a lot of people because we saw so many examples of people taking the paycheck, people going on... I mean, for the record, you know, Charlie does not get paid a dime to say something nice about Trump.
No, I get nothing, but we've lost tons of donors.
I'm gonna... I'm going to just...
Be very transparent with the audience and I want everyone's advice.
So I got a text message from somebody this week and I didn't respond.
And I prayed about it, and I wanted to respond a certain way, and I didn't respond a certain way, and it's somebody that's actually being debated online of whether or not forgiveness shall be offered, and it's Steve Cortez.
And I like Steve a lot.
Yeah, I like Steve, too.
So I'm being very transparent.
He's been on our show multiple times.
This is not an anti-Steve thing, but it's a principled thing, right?
Because I was very bothered by how...
Oh, you threw him a retweet.
Great.
So, I want the audience... Remind me, what did Steve do?
Well, he didn't burn down a Wendy's.
But no, let me tell you... Well, he'd be a saint.
We'd have a statue of him.
Yeah, let me tell you.
And Steve texted me, and he's texted me this tweet about uniting behind Donald John Trump.
Here's what happened.
Steve was super MAGA all spring.
MAGA, MAGA, MAGA.
He was frequently on War Room, great economic analysis.
On our show.
He was on our show.
And he goes dark for a week, and out of nowhere he becomes a spokesperson for DeSantis.
Out of nowhere?
Doesn't tell anyone.
It was like a really weird, abrupt shift.
That was the weirdest one.
His daughter still works for the Trump campaign, and her daughter was subtweeting her dad.
And then, all of a sudden, he, like, wouldn't respond to texts, and was like, DeSantis can be the nominee, and was like, bro, how much money's involved in this?
And, like, it was just kind of not... Cringe?
Yeah, it wasn't the way you do things, I think.
Again, I'm... but... I'm not... Usually, when someone you... when someone you talk to, it would be like...
It would be like if I suddenly went to work for DeSantis out of nowhere and, by the way, hadn't, like, sent a message to anyone I talk to on a regular basis to say, hey, guys, by the way, I'm thinking of doing this.
Here's my thought.
Just none of that, right?
You know, none of didn't pick up the phone to call anybody.
And just one day, boom, this is all of a sudden happening.
Rahim, who, you know, I think, as everybody knows, is another What do you call it?
Co-host, guest host, kind of on the war room roster.
And he said something quite prescient, I think, on the show.
He said, look, get out there and do the work.
Get out there and do the work and show us that you're interested in actually winning and actually defeating Joe Biden.
And that's the way back, right?
You know, it really isn't this big test of like, Should we let you in or not?
It's just go out there and do good work.
And these things will kind of happen on their own.
I agree with that.
Sorry, Charlie.
So I'm battling and wrestling.
Do we let him immediately back into the camp?
Because it was all DeSantis, all the time, sudden shift as if nothing happens.
But I would say, Charlie, and just on Steve, just on Steve, and I'll say this quickly, is that He did not comport himself the way that like a Jeremy Redfern did, right?
I don't remember him getting anything personal.
I don't remember him attacking Donald Trump personally.
I don't remember him attacking any of us personally, calling us stupid, calling us names, saying things like Ashley Babbitt should have died, which Jeremy Redfern did say.
So, you know, when I talk about people who comported themselves a certain way, that's kind of who I'm talking about.
Now, the question of letting someone back into the camp, where do they sit on the bus?
Do they sit on the bus?
Those are all different questions, but I would not put him in the category of, you know... Would you let him back on the bus, Jack?
He retweeted it.
I gave him the retweet, Charlie.
Retweets are not necessarily endorsements, though.
As they all say, as they all say.
Blake, where do you fall?
The bunch might need some pushing.
But Blake, and I know that you very well might be tempted to say, come on, don't hold the grudges.
However, Trump world should be a little on guard.
For sure.
About personnel that are not in alignment with.
They definitely should be.
I feel like that's probably the funny thing is I feel like we'll get this mega bloodlust almost like don't let any of the traitors back in.
And then we'll turn around and it'll be a year from now.
And we'll be like, why are there three Democrats in the cabinet?
And why is he only giving interviews to the New York Times again?
Blake thinks he's going to win.
He might, yeah.
He might win.
He easily could win.
And I think the big fear a lot of people have is what if all the mistakes that were made in 2017 that could easily be chalked up to inexperience, it was a totally unprecedented time, but what if we fall back into the same habits again?
Yeah.
I'm not sure the easy way to answer that.
This is what's driving a lot of this conversation, is because there was really two pieces of it.
There was the behind-the-scenes piece, right, people getting close to Trump, Jack you know this really well, that would either block out or embrace, and we all sort of knew who the true believers were and who they weren't, you guys better than I, and then there was the front of house people, the people that were public that you were like, These people ended up being the biggest snakes in the grass that you can imagine.
I think, Jack, you tweeted out something like that these people are trying to come back to Trump and cozy on up to Trump after Iowa are getting the snake in the grass poem.
And from a personnel standpoint, we saw time and again how his How his policies were thwarted by bad personnel choices, right?
So we're all saying, like, hey, we've got a very hardcore agenda here.
We're gonna deport 10 million illegals.
We're gonna knock off the DEI.
We got stuff to do.
And we don't want these globalists that, like, secretly wish Nicky won the, you know, nom, but, you know, don't want to be irrelevant either, trying to cozy back up to the guy that's supposed to be leading the charge here.
And here's the issue too with appointments, and by the way, I'm not talking even about appointments at this point.
I'm talking just very loosely like, you know, I don't even know, like retweets, right?
Like throwing somebody a retweet.
You know, what did we learn from the first administration?
That you cannot trust anyone.
You can't even trust paper pushers.
What was this guy, Miles, Anonymous, Taylor?
No, this is a great example.
Miles Taylor.
By the way, this guy was part... I'm not gonna say it.
I was once at a social function with him.
I never liked him.
He's a weasel.
And by the way, he's the one that literally wrote these... Remember this in the New York Times?
I am anonymous, and I...
I am a heartbeat away and I keep things off his desk and I am the true check and balance.
The founding fathers would be proud of me because I am the true, you know, right?
I am the conscious of the nation.
Remember that Jack?
That I, 29 year old, you know, who went to Yale.
And then we had the guessing game for like a couple of weeks of, you know, we all thought it would be like someone serious.
Sorry, Blake, go ahead.
I just think there's a couple things worth bringing up.
One, as Angela points out in our chat, we do, you know, Trump has the nomination locked up, but even though I have just predicted that he will win, I don't, you know, it's not guaranteed.
No, no, we all know.
And one of the hazards is if you have DeSantis or Haley people, I guess, feel really bitter about the way the primary went and it ended, they can, of course, not vote or they could throw in with RFK.
We're already seeing a few people do that.
Can I ask you a question?
What does history tell us about the best process to heal these wounds, yet keep your standards high?
Where could we point to of someone who's done that the best?
Team Arrivals.
It's hard for me- I'm not- I don't think Team Arrivals is a good example here.
I feel like- Oh, I know- Truthfully, traditionally- Hold on, let Blake answer the question.
Hold on, I wanna hear what Blake- Traditionally, this has just sort of been self-healing, because partisan instincts in the U.S.
are so strong, pretty durable, that People would just think, I don't want Biden, you know, the moving principle here is no one wants Biden to win.
And so over time, as you get closer and closer to the election, wounds do organically heal.
And the most obvious case of this is 2016.
2016 was a wild time.
People said wild stuff.
You had people who were big fans of Ted Cruz, of Marco Rubio, of all these, you know, a lot of these, you know, conservatives who've done a lot.
And Trump really ridiculed them, he embarrassed them, and this was really bitter.
Remember, Ted Cruz didn't endorse... Ted Cruz would not endorse him at the convention, and people were enraged at that.
I was enraged about it.
Just, how can you do this?
And then just... Well, we didn't want Hillary to win, so people got over it.
Even Cruz didn't endorse by Election Day, correct?
I can't remember.
He did just endorse, ironically.
But I will never forget And I wonder if Jack, Charlie, Blake, if you guys remember this moment.
It was like two weeks before the election in 2016.
You've got this firebrand Trump, this unknown commodity.
He brings Pence along.
And I do think, you know, Pence obviously is not the most popular guy in the movement these days.
He was well-respected at the time.
Yeah, got into a public feud with Charlie, actually, ironically.
During ActCon.
During ActCon, during the summer.
He said, I remember it was like on 60 Minutes or something, one of these old establishment kind of outlets, and he said, he looked right in the camera and he said, it's time to come home.
Just super boring.
Like, you know, it's time, everybody, just come on home.
And I remember thinking, like, that was a powerful moment because it spoke to the people that probably are backing DeSantis right now, but it was a healing moment, and it was like, okay, if Mike Pence, old, boring, you know, Mike Pence, It's telling you to come back and back this guy.
Okay, that's...
Comforting somehow and man the funny thing is is when you said you you know, he had a feud with Mike Pence I had to pause and think why would he have a few - oh wait Mike Pence ran for president No, but he also forgot it was also that it was that by the way It was Charlie tweeted out a clip of the Tucker take down in Iowa.
It was with the fans And here's the other provocative question.
And it was like, you know, these people love Ukraine more than America.
And he was like, pardon me, Charlie, back where I come from, this is called fake news.
And it was like, no, we literally just posted what you said.
Anyway.
So what is the process then, Blake, you would recommend?
Because you-- and then here is the other provocative question.
Does Trump forgive too easily?
What's funny is I feel like Trump can forgive too easy and not enough.
Because what he really does is he fixates on these enemies.
And this is what I worry about a bit with DeSantis, is that DeSantis was not merely an opponent that Trump had to, you know, cast, drive aside in order to get the nomination.
I think that's kind of what Ted Cruz was like in 2016, for example.
DeSantis became the Jeb Bush of the 2024 primary.
That's true.
He became this figure that Trump fixated on really early.
He was attacking DeSantis even before the midterms.
And he really seemed to relish coming up with all the nicknames, really humiliating him.
And I feel like any person who gets in that role with Trump, I don't know that Trump has ever rehabilitated someone from that.
And I could see that causing a good amount of long-term bitterness, at least in some quarters.
Like we talked about people getting nasty politically, people saying nasty stuff about Trump supporters in support of DeSantis.
But...
The Trump campaign implied, or at least people linked with the Trump campaign, implied that DeSantis' wife faked having cancer and that DeSantis was a pedophile.
What did he say about Cruz, though?
Cruz, his dad... He said kill JFK.
Well, but that's a factual statement.
The Zodiac Killer.
The stuff lines up.
Yeah, the Zodiac Killer, but I think that was more meme energy.
They both went after each other's wives.
They did.
There was a lot of bad stuff like that, but I do feel like things got very... There were some very wild allegations that were made against DeSantis' family from at least people pretty adjacent to Trump world.
I can't remember if there was ever a truth about it or anything like that.
I don't think that they went as hard at DeSantis as they did against Ted Cruz.
I really don't think so.
I don't think they ever suggested Ted Cruz.
The thing about the Zodiac Killer is it's sort of silly, but it's insane.
Trump went very savage against Heidi Cruz.
You forget.
He put up a picture of Heidi Cruz.
Remember that?
That was really aggressive.
In my head, it's hard to top earnestly implying that a candidate is a pedophile.
That was pretty wild to me.
So the question then remains.
the bus analogy.
Yeah, so does he forgive too easily?
He definitely, he will welcome people.
There is a criticism of some people.
They'll say, why on earth are some of these people even being entertained back into the orbit?
What will stink, I think, is Trump, like I said, he fixates on a few people who he will never forgive.
I think Jeff Sessions is probably an example of that, where Trump blames him for these things.
For the Russia investigation.
For Russia and all of this.
And so never again.
And I feel like he could end up doing that to DeSantis just in the sense that he loves beating up on DeSantis.
But if he doesn't perceive himself as having this feud with a person, and there's only a few people that's really like, yeah, he'll just get over it immediately.
You know, he'll have the dinner conversation with them, and three hours later, it'll just be, uh, Nikki Haley's back in MAGA camp, you know, we're gonna appoint her Secretary of State.
Well, to your same, to that statement though, I mean, look at, look at the dust up, uh, with Vivek, from the last time that we were on a livestream together, all four of us on a livestream, uh, we were all talking about the dust up with Vivek Ramaswamy, we were talking about the fact that, oh my gosh, Trump is going so hard at him, he's, He's calling him not MAGA, he's calling him a snake, he's saying all of these things and then within 24 hours, maybe not even 24 hours,
All of a sudden, he's getting the handshake and they're on stage together.
That surprised nobody, though.
Like, no one was shocked by that.
Well, because Vivek... Okay.
I think you talked about this earlier, Jack.
You were talking about the way they comport themselves.
And I will say, you know, I was watching the chat.
It seemed like the chat was like, you know, screw Steve Cortez.
I tend to be like...
I want to show some magnanimous love for Steve.
But I don't... the timing, I think... And I don't disagree.
I'm just... I'm wrestling because, you know, my temptation... Let me just say, my fleshly temptation wanted to say, oh, Steve, thanks for the text, man.
Where were you over the summer when you were pumping DeSantis for an unnecessary primary, probably being paid way too much money by a now defunct, bankrupted super PAC?
didn't say that but like I was tempted yeah I'm saying like I was like but I think while we were laboring through the fields of trying to get this nomination over with yeah and be called cult members and I didn't text it yeah of course and you know you just said it I said a question it's like It's like, okay, well politics is a mercenary business.
Was he offered a thing by the Trump campaign?
Or was he only offered something by DeSantis?
No, I don't know.
That's a good question.
I mean, I don't know.
I want to believe that he was definitely in MAGA.
No, that's fair.
He was in MAGA's circle, but his daughter was working for the Trump campaign.
But I don't know that I want to think of politics as mercenary.
And maybe that's just me being... Wasn't Mike Lee's wife working... Senator Lee's wife was working for Never Back Down when he endorsed Trump.
Well, I mean, there's a lot of that.
I just don't want to think of it as so mercenary, and I think this is why it strikes a certain chord when we're talking about it, and why you were tweeting about it, why it was such a... I want to say it was the Jamie Dimon clip that actually set all of this off.
I mean, Charlie, you tweeted it and it went kind of viral that morning.
I think it's...
I don't look at... So Jamie Dimon is a different bucket, right?
I mean, Jamie Dimon is one of these guys that goes where the wind blows.
He's a weathervane.
He says things that are moderately popular in the center, whatever.
He's a good businessman, actually.
And I think that's one category.
Should you let somebody like that into your administration or your cabinet?
In my opinion, absolutely not.
Absolutely not.
But you do want somebody like that to come do the photo op at the White House.
You want to keep him at arm's length.
So let me ask a question, though.
Someone like Steve Cortez, more trustworthy than a silent establishment person that just lurks in the water and doesn't have any strong opinions.
100%.
Right?
The kind of Elaine Chao's of the world, the turtle Chinese Communist Party, you know, wife.
I would rather have Steve Cortez than all of a sudden the establishment figure that appears when Trump looks like he's going to be the nominee.
There's a million people who just Yeah, stay below the surface.
Don't say too much.
It's amazing.
This is a cottage industry.
I have not, I'm going to write a piece on this.
And I think it's so important.
And I'm just learning, because all of a sudden, as Trump's getting the nomination, I'm seeing texts and calls of people I haven't in a long time.
And I thought to myself, they've seen this.
Same here, man.
No, but it's interesting, though.
They weren't anti-Trump.
They were kind of doing the circuit and doing the thing.
They were just gone.
They were just kind of gone.
They were just kind of gone.
And it's as if like a beacon went out.
And they're like, here I am.
Yeah.
Wait, wait.
I tweeted about this.
I said, all of a sudden, my phone is chirping more than the smoke alarm in Joy Reid's living room with people that I haven't heard from in years.
But I wanted to get this out that Rahim had a great point about this.
Raheem and Steve have, you know, I'm not going to speak for him, but, you know, they were obviously very close before all this war room posse, et cetera.
And Raheem had a point.
He said, look, you know, there was a time in my life where I would have said, you know, screw them all and kick them all overboard.
But, you know, one thing is, what are you bringing to bear?
And I think, Charlie, this is kind of what you're getting at as well, is what do you bring to the table?
And one thing that Steve Cortez had, and, you know, he still does have this, is that he was an excellent communicator, that he did have that communication skill.
He did have that chalk talk.
He had that ability to bring this to bear.
Now, he never really was able to put it into play for DeSantis, which, by the way, is a whole interesting story that I'd love to get to because I remember he wasn't really doing these things for DeSantis.
It's like they kind of put him on the shelf really, really far.
And then, you know, the question is, do you want a guy out there every day making chalk talks like that for Donald Trump?
And I was like, you know, on average, on net, I would rather have that on margin.
It makes sense.
So as far as high level appointments and things, that's, that's well.
And Jack, I think what's interesting about 2020, 2026 versus now is 2026.
It made sense to unite the clans, right?
Like bring everybody home because Trump did not have an established backing.
But what made 2023 awkward Was A, and I think Jack, you know this better than anybody, is how vitriolic and obnoxious the DeSantis influencers became.
And then B, the mere fact that all of them used to back Donald Trump.
So it was, but whereas in 2016, you know, the people that were anti-Trump, never Trump, they had never backed him before.
Now let's be fair, some of the Trump influencers were a little... Fair, no.
But, but, it's okay if you're winning.
That's my rule.
If you're winning, I give you more... It's like you're taunting.
You're up in the game.
Well, it's also... I kid you not.
If you're losing and you're obnoxious, then I really gotta follow you.
But it's also a different standpoint.
He's gonna win Iowa.
Yeah.
If you're DeSantis, just look at a basic game theory here.
If you're DeSantis, you need to convert Trump voters to win.
And so, if your team is running around calling everyone members of a cult, Then you're not going to get those people on your side.
Meanwhile, if you're a Trump supporter, yeah, you can shave off a couple of points of hardcore dissented supporters because, again, as you say, he is the presumptive nominee.
So just basic game theory would say that the guy in the lead is able to do that.
You're right, Jack.
It didn't feel welcoming to be—they felt like it was an antagonistic—I don't know why—Blake, I know you disagree with me on this.
I cannot express this, and you guys know, like, I'm very, to this day, I still feel warm feelings about DeSantis because of what he's done in Florida.
And early on, I was, you know, I really was against all the vitriolic.
I know we don't say it.
Hey, I was against the vitriol in general.
I didn't like it.
But the bottom line is, I felt like It hit me that they were very obnoxious.
Very obnoxious.
And I don't know that I can fully articulate why, but I know that you think that it went both ways, and it did.
But I don't know why the feeling... I agree with Tucker.
There was a repulsion, I felt, at times with some of the DeSantis people.
And maybe it was just the snobbery, the elitism.
I don't know.
I think a lot of that was probably... Is it confirmation bias?
I think it was being too online, and people on Twitter are terrible.
Or, on X, are terrible.
And also, I think it is really just, it goes both ways and you decide to only notice one.
Like, I truthfully think there can be a lot of nasty behavior.
But what about Cernovich?
Cernovich is a guy that basically-- and Jack, correct my facts here if I'm getting it wrong.
I read Cernovich as being an OG Trump guy, but he was very critical, ultimately, of some things that happened.
So then he was very positive DeSantis.
And then he just turned.
He was like, this is obnoxious.
You people are grossing me out.
And I don't want to be a part of it.
Plus, you just have loser energy.
So that's a guy that was completely in DeSantis' camp.
Everybody thought he was like pro DeSantis.
I don't think it was for him.
He was.
He was at one point.
Yeah.
But then he turned on us at one point because because he was like, I want competency.
He was like, I want he's like, I get it.
Like, I love the funny bad boy stuff, the funny tweets and all.
But at the end of the day, sure, you can win an election.
But what does it matter if you don't get anything across the across the board when you're actually in office?
And, you know, he said this publicly, so I'm not putting words in his mouth, but it was more this idea that if we can get a guy in who's competent and also has all of these beliefs but without the drama, then maybe we can actually move the needle.
The problem was the drama ensued.
And case in point is that you had people who were on staff acting this way online.
On staff.
Jeremy Redfirm and others on staff who were doing this type, engaging this type of behavior.
I want to tell everyone, let's have a conversation really quick about one of our sponsors, this medical emergency kit with TWC.health slash CJ.
CJ, that is quite a URL, isn't it, Andrew?
Well, it's CJ for Charlie and Jack.
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So this is a really cool thing, because when people get sick a lot, And one of the things, I get text message all the time, and one of the things I'm most thankful and proud of, and Blake is going to cringe and I don't care, is that during COVID, I referred 50 to 60 people that were really struggling to hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin, and we hit home runs every single time.
Home runs.
Tyler Boyer will come on this program, and he will attest how ivermectin saved his life.
I'm telling you.
Dude.
Right, Andrew?
Tyler was down.
He was on death's door.
He was on death's door.
Tyler would have been what?
It's not an exaggeration.
Every 34, he's not going to die.
No, I'm not kidding you.
Tyler would go, I'm dying.
Tyler's blood oxygen level was at like 85.
I can't shake this thing.
I mean, it was bad.
And then Charlie and I would side chat and go like, is he dying?
Oh, no.
And then we mobilized ivermectin to him.
Within 24 hours, he was better.
I think he was probably going to get better anyway, but I'll let you do the copying.
No, trust me, it was night and day.
I mean, you could be like Blake, or you could have eight life-saving medications, including amoxicillin, azepak, that is azithromycin.
Now, azithromycin is an antibiotic Antibiotics can help with long pneumonia, all stuff.
And by the way, it has been proven to say that azithromycin can relieve other symptoms related to COVID and other upper respiratory issues.
Ivermectin.
RSV going around, too.
Yeah, that's right.
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By the way, I have a whole—I'm not there yet, unfortunately, because it's still ongoing.
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You do not want to go to a hospital.
You do not want to go to a hospital, everybody.
You've been going through the wringer at the hospital.
So people that don't know, keeping it... You have to go back to the hospital.
Let's talk ambiguity.
I know.
This is ongoing, so I want everything to be treated well and not be like...
Yes, but you have to keep going back.
That's the point.
I'm going back after the show.
And so anyway, so it's not for me.
It's obviously for a loved one.
So anyway, gonna do everything I can to avoid a hospital.
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Oh, that's interesting.
I wasn't thinking about it as like a prepper thing, because we have all kinds of Preppers in our audience, but that's right.
You could keep it on.
Yeah.
Anyway, I'm going to I'm going to get it.
So you got a special kit there.
It's a medical kit.
And this was definitely people text me still all the time.
Charlie, I have covid.
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And I said, look, I'm not I'm not a medical doctor.
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Alright, topic number two.
Thematically, I think we can open with a clip.
So we have clip 115.
Welcome aboard, folks.
We are very proud to share that your pilot is the most diverse pilot on record.
She is a 3 foot 2 inch transgender pansexual Native American man who identifies as a 6 foot tall Korean woman.
Any volunteers to help reach the controls are welcome.
You will want to buckle up as her epilepsy is often triggered by the flashing lights in the cockpit.
Remember to keep a whisper volume level as she may have to consult instructional videos as a refresher during the flight.
Now, can we get a big cheer for Diversity?
- I think that's "Final Destination." - Final Destination. - Final Destination.
- Yeah.
- Plane explodes, everyone dies.
- And then he then gets back to being in the terminal, if I remember the movie.
- Yeah, yeah. - 'Cause it's like a forward backward. - Faith kills all of them.
- Yeah, exactly, yeah.
- Good for you.
- What a, I don't think I saw more than that scene.
I just remember that so vividly, 'cause it happens and then he goes back to the terminal.
But who is that?
Who wants to take it?
This is what's going on.
So, United Airlines.
We have the Kirby clip.
Can we get to this?
Andrew, I want you to riff on this from a PR perspective.
You had a beautiful take on it earlier.
And we have the Kirby.
Just while they get it.
So the reason, of course, it's in the news is people have dug up remarks that United Airlines CEO Scott Kirby made in, I think, 2021.
But he says, You know, United Airlines is very committed to making sure that 50% of their pilots are women or people of color.
I want to get that, yes.
And by the way, Andrew had three really good takes, first from a PR perspective of just how the questions were asked.
Oh, yeah.
And remember, just like the framing, and I want you to just play this tape, and I want you to walk people through, just because you listened to this from a PR kind of standpoint, let's play cut 93, please.
Yeah, that's it.
How is diversity and diversity targets working into the Aviate Academy?
We have committed that 50% of the classes will be women or people of color.
Today, only 19% of our pilots at United Airlines are women or people of color.
And by the way, from all the data I've seen, that's the highest of any airline in the country.
White males don't just dominate in the cockpits, also in the C-suite at United Airlines.
Well, look, at United, I'm proud of the diversity that we actually have in our C-suite.
I think if you look around corporate America, One of the things we do is, for every job when we do an interview, we require women and people of color to be involved in the interview process.
So I just want to say, white males dominate on the host of thought crimes.
This is not a diverse space.
We have a hundred percent.
We have a diversity problem here on ThoughtCrime.
Yeah, we do.
Our demographics here exactly match the demographics of the men who wrote the Constitution.
So, Andrew, just riff on this, because the buried lead here is not even the CEO answering the question, it's the axios propagandists, the way he asks the question.
No, this is why we say that the media is the enemy of the people, because the way he asks these questions, he's assuming that this value system that's completely You know, arbitrary.
It's just the next new thing.
So he's assuming the virtue in his line of questioning.
So he's demanding that the respondent, in this case Kirby, CEO of United, fits into this moral framework that he's just establishing the question.
You could call it leading the question.
Yeah, but the way that... Imagine Musk pushing back on this.
He would basically be like, well, your question's BS.
But instead, you have this weak, effeminate, turns out, drag queen CEO that doesn't push back on the premise, doesn't reject the premise at all, instead parrots it back.
And there's a striking moment here.
19% of United's pilot corps is minority or women.
Now, no coincidence, 19% of their flights are never on time.
Correlation without causation?
No, I'm just saying.
They have to get ready.
Yeah, it's a... Get ready?
I was going to riff on that.
I can't.
So, here's what's crazy.
Going from 19% to 50-50... Blake's still laughing at himself.
Going from 19% to 50-50 in one year.
He said our class in 2023, in one year, is actually impossible.
And I think, Blake, you made this point.
Are there even enough...
Women or minority potential pilots out there that want to be a pilot.
Where are they going to find these people?
Where's the supply going to come from?
There's a diversity push in literally every industry in America.
So they're like, okay, we need to have more, you know, women and people of color physicists and pilots and finance gurus and film directors.
Don't forget surgeons.
But we can't also also it's OK that they're more common than the population in professional sports or hip hop or any of these industries.
And we don't want that to go away.
And you just you need only a very basic brain here to do the math, you know, do the math in your head and say this doesn't work out.
And then, you know, you just go back to the source.
Okay, well, like, what's the intake from this?
Well, the reason that pilots are all male is to become a pilot is hard.
You need a ton of hours in the air to become a commercial airline pilot.
And there are a lot of veterans.
Yeah.
So you get people who either are veterans, and those go through a pretty tough winnowing process, or people who care enough about it and have the resources to be Hobby pilots at a high amount of time.
Or their parents paid for flight school when they're 16, 17, or 18 years old.
Exactly.
Which is a thing of upper-middle class society.
And so, man, you have to be careful saying that, because soon we'll get Congress just allocating 50 billion dollars to the, like, women in flight program to pay for underprivileged people to just get flight hours, and then they'll just be crashing small planes all over the place.
But this is, I think this is the red pill of the red pill.
Every issue where Anyone who's remotely normie in my orbit goes 10 out of 10.
It's the flight one.
I have to be honest.
Or like surgeons.
Surgeon and flight are the top two where it's like they no one really cares when it's HR managers.
No one cared when it was, you know, just kind of paper shufflers or even engineers.
But now when it's like, wait, wait, hold on a second.
You're going to remove my appendix and you're a black lesbian.
- Well, you bring these, okay.
- Did you have to go through the same-- - I say this all the time on the show.
- When I get on an airplane, you know, I want my pilot to be like, hi, this is Chad.
Maybe like a little bit of a Southern accent.
Chad Buckworth here.
This is my 31,000th hour.
I'm kind of bored, honestly.
I could do this in my sleep.
Charles.
Exactly.
I want just like cookie cutter, like, yeah, this is so, this is so easy to me.
I don't want LaQuisha James.
They have that like pilot voice.
And she's just like, hi, ladies and gentlemen.
Cry for me!
And the truth is, this is a creation that the left wanted.
And they think you can't say anything about it because they'll call you a racist.
And this is where we really have to take the gloves off and say, your name calling will not get in the way of people's safety at 35,000 feet.
It's offensive to call someone a diversity hire.
You guys are the ones who legally require diversity hires.
You are the ones who say, we need to hire people based on skin color.
If we didn't hire people based on skin color, this wouldn't happen because every pilot would be qualified.
Jack is chomping at the bit here.
We said this on the show today and I was like, I'm getting in trouble.
I was with Mike Davis.
I said, fine, I'm going to say it.
And I said, am I supposed to just not notice?
That Fannie Willis is on the exact same Soros prosecutor trajectory as Kim Gardner was in St.
Louis.
The exact same trajectory.
And I'm sorry, but they look almost exactly the same, other than the fact that one had long hair and one had short hair.
They have almost the same background.
They have this very questionable legal experience.
And one of them, if you remember, Kim Gardner, had the prosecutor that was, like, lying to the grand jury.
And I don't think there was ever any evidence of a relationship, but something funky was going on there.
She's gotten so far out that even the mayor of, like, the far-left liberal mayor of St.
Louis was like, you need to resign.
Like, you need to leave.
And this was, like, what, last year?
And then all of a sudden Fannie Willis is like, Come on, she's not actually using the money for the prosecution for paying her lover off.
Oh, she is, and they're going on all these trips and stuff.
So I'm just like, we're not supposed to, we're not allowed to notice these things.
We're not allowed to buy rich, leather-bound books by Steve Saylor.
We're definitely not allowed to read any of his columns.
And we're certainly not going to talk about anything that he's written later on the show today.
At what point do- and I guess, Charlie, that's to your point, right?
It's the point where your life is literally in their hands that you say, alright, I can't do it anymore.
Because the lies that you are forced to hold in your head- 19% are already diversity hires, so one out of five flights, you guys are putting your life in your own hands.
this united wouldn't have been great if he just would have pushed back and been like well okay hold on we're making some headway here we're trying to you know at a young age want to get them exposed to flying but half the problem is that it tends to be white young men that want to get into why does it matter we want excellence like screw you weird pushback would have been a relief you just assumed the premise was accurate and and as if it's like perfectly fine like yes we need the most diverse flight crew ever because
obviously when by the way rob schneider has the best i love rob schneider we've become friends can we play that tape ryan we had it for the show it's so well done but there's just not an acknowledgement of certain constraining limitations here and i think that's what's so troubling is in that clip he doesn't acknowledge that there is structural and cultural reasons for this disparity and so you're sitting here as like a potential victim in the back of the plane going like oh my gosh like he's just gonna force this through and there's he's not
he doesn't seem to care about the fact that if some people can't fly so good it If Delta wanted to just dominate, they should do an ad and be like, Delta Airlines, excellence is how we hire our pilots and you'll be safe.
I'm telling you, they would have 20% more ticket sales.
You know they'd get boycotted too by the pilot.
Everything's going to be fine, man.
300 people on I hope I'm wrong.
It's just someone's going to die because we could joke about this all we want.
Well, you cannot have it's very, very sophisticated.
You hire people surface for sophisticated, high stakes, immediate call jobs with 50 checklist items.
And you do not have competency as the core reason somebody is going to die.
You're okay.
Okay, go ahead, Jack.
Sorry.
Yeah, no, I actually looked this up recently when this whole sort of, you know, discourse began.
And in the Soviet Union, it was known, and it was well known at the time, that it was the worst air travel in the entire world.
Because again, pilots in the Soviet Union, Aeroflot, were chosen for political reasons.
Now, it wasn't diversity reasons, but again, it was another political, non-quality, non-qualified reason.
So you had to be, you know, you had to be of the right moral character, the right, which of course,
was was run through the the KTB and run through the party and your family couldn't have any dissidents in it and all of this stuff and you you would get literally hundreds almost a thousand plane crashes throughout the history of the USSR like something like 700 like this insane number all the way up to the point where and this is why people still to this day ride the train a lot in in that part of the world because they're just they're just used to that they're used to air travel being incredibly dangerous
Up to the point in the 1990s, if anyone remembers this, I don't remember this, but I know about it because Michael Crichton wrote a whole book about this, but it actually took place, his book takes place in the U.S., but this is an incident that actually happened in Russia in the 1990s, so it's a couple of years after the Soviet Union fell, but you still kind of have this pilot corps that's made up of like political apparatchiks and such, where, yeah, the pilot allowed
His 15-year-old son and his 13-year-old daughter to take the controls while, you know, while everyone's asleep on, like, a long-haul flight, and they accidentally disengaged the autopilot and were flying the plane itself and literally flew the plane into a mountain in Russia and killed everyone on board.
And this was, like, Aeroflot, full commercial flight, just completely insane.
Completely insane.
Let's his kids take the controls.
And sorry, by the way, I just spoiled the book for anyone who was reading it or wanted to read it.
But this stuff has actually happened and like not that long ago in our history, which by the way, and you know, this is going to happen next, because whenever there was a whistleblower anywhere in the Soviet Union who wanted to like come out and actually explain what was going on, you can only imagine what happened to them.
And I guarantee that's the exact same thing the federal government will do when it comes to the diversity hire captains.
On our end, if anyone's at Boeing or at United, that's why they've got to run to, and I implore you, please go to James O'Keefe and get the information out now because people are going to die.
We are going to have planes raining, raining down on the United States before this is done.
I hope you're wrong.
Yeah, that's the truth of it, but can I make two points?
Charlie, you've been zeroing in on these issues, and I don't know if you've been doing it on the show as much or on the chat, but you say, that's a red pill issue.
Trust me, this is a red pill issue, and what we're really getting at is... Because I talk to a lot of normies.
Yeah, what you're really getting at, and see, this is why I've always been like, migration, migration, migration, or illegal immigration, whatever you want, because it's something that you feel Very viscerally.
You walk on your streets, and you're like, man, ten years ago, my street used to have my neighbors on it, and now it doesn't.
And there's all these people that don't speak my language.
And it's very disorienting.
And people will vote that way.
We're seeing this upend the Western world, right?
Guns are like this, because it's very personal.
You're trying to take something away that makes people safe.
You're talking about the Chilean robbery rings, because people are like, I don't feel safe in my home.
And we can see from the crime statistics that are going up, inflation, it hits personally.
And that's why I think this United story and the DEI story hits So hard, because we've all been in the back of a plane when the turbulence hits, or when you're flying through a storm, and you're like, I'm so glad I saw the guy with the right stuff and the square jaw get into the cockpit before we took off, and I feel better now thinking about that.
No, I mean, like, you want to go thoughtcrime?
Like, I'm sorry, if I see a black pilot, I'm going to be like, boy, I hope he's qualified.
Well, you wouldn't have done that before.
That's not who I am.
That's not what I believe.
It is the reality the left has created.
I want to be as blunt as possible because now I'm connecting two dots.
Wait a second.
The CEO said that he's forcing that a white qualified guy is not going to get the job.
So I see this guy.
He might be a nice person.
I say, boy, I hope he's not a Harvard-style affirmative action student that has points for... And he landed half of his flight simulator You know, trials.
That's the thing.
Such a good point.
And by the way, it also creates unhealthy thinking patterns.
I don't want to think that way.
And no one should, right?
So then I kind of sit down and I'm like, boy, I hope nobody's... And by the way, then you couple it with the FAA air traffic control.
They got a bunch of morons and affirmative action people.
Yeah, it's play cup 112.
Can you give me some context?
This is a... So when you land, there's a dialogue that goes on between the pilot and air traffic control.
So you've got this pilot... Is this real?
This is real, apparently.
And he's having a debate... How'd he get this?
It's going around.
Somebody probably leaked it to James O'Keefe.
But he's having a debate with air traffic control and she's trying to tell him how she thinks he should land, and he's saying, I've been doing this for 15 years.
I think I know what I'm doing.
Do you remember when I said this?
I just Googled this.
Do you remember when I said this a couple weeks ago?
I said they're hiring a bunch of blacks for no reason at air traffic control.
And this started in the Obama years.
This is actually a story.
No, I'm saying this has been going on and I've been getting whistleblowers from the FAA for years.
And people say you're a racist, you're this.
Play Cut 112.
For a short approach, if you're going to do a power-off 180, that's my point.
Well, okay, I will remember that from now on, no problem.
Yeah, when you ask for a short approach, I expect you to turn your base and mean the numbers.
Alright, this ought to be a full stop for 65Charlie, and maybe we need to talk about that some more because you're the first controller in 15 years that's ever said that.
Well, I'm just, you know, if you ask for a short approach, a short approach is when you turn your base and mean the numbers.
If I know you're a student asking for a short approach, I know you're out there practicing and you probably will extend.
But if you're doing something other than a short approach, don't ask for a short approach.
Well, I will definitely look up the definition of short approach, because I've never seen where it says you turn base or beam the numbers, because I don't see how you could possibly do that.
Well, I googled it, actually.
I googled short approach, and it says turn base or beam, or before the numbers.
Is this real?
It sounds real.
Where did this come from?
Can we get the chirp?
I need the chirp.
- No! - Can we make, can I, where did this come from?
Can we get the chirp?
I need the chirp.
Where's my chirp?
Come on guys.
We gotta be quicker on the trip.
Where did this come from?
Can you find us where this came from, Blake?
I'll look into it.
I wanna make sure this is 100% right, by the way.
I have never heard this before.
I didn't know that was coming.
We're all dead.
This is a pilot who's 35,000 feet in the air, trying to land a plane full of passengers, communicating with some moron who is no better than, like, you know, just customer service.
To be honest, though, she sounded somewhat knowledgeable.
It's a real person.
The woman is Brenda Mooney, and she's apparently an air traffic controller at the small airport of Denton, Texas.
So this was a real diary.
Apparently.
At least they've fingered a real person.
And there's a petition with 1700 signatures to have her removed.
Well, look, my money's on the pilot, okay?
I'm going to be honest, I don't know the technical stuff of what they're talking about at all.
I have plenty of pilots that I can ask, but I can say this.
You know, a lot of people email the show.
I have had pilots and air traffic control say, Charlie, you have no idea what's happening in air travel.
The woke mind virus has taken over, people are going to die, planes are going to fall out of the air.
Even the New York Times has covered this.
They've covered how there's this huge increase in near misses.
Well, because at some point the New York Times wants to go to the Bahamas.
And even they are like, I don't know how I'm going to be exempt from this one.
Part of it, though, is that there's just simply more air travel.
Right.
And so there used to be a rule in aviation.
And I'm out of my depth here.
But this was explained to me that you used to have to fly 2000 feet apart, like on top of each other.
Right.
So you had to have 2000 feet of clearance plane over plane if you were going to come within a certain proximity to one another.
At some point, that was deemed to be Too much trouble for the aviation industry, and so they lowered the threshold to 1,000 feet of clearance, which just means the planes are flying closer together midair, especially as you approach busy airports and things like that, cities.
Because remember, it's not just commercial air travel.
So it's a complicated – I just want to say it's a complicated field, and there's a lot going on and a lot of variables.
Wall Street Journal, FedEx, Southwest planes come within 100 feet of each other during close call.
I mean this is happening all the time.
Remember, it's a complicated field, but it is one where we're also endlessly messing with it.
It's not that complicated because we actually came to a place of agreed-upon standards and safety, and now we're deciding to destroy that.
And to Andrew's point, my working hypothesis, which I think is rather unique to us and me, is that the politics of taking is – is way more powerful than the politics of even giving.
You're taking someone's abortion rights away, you're taking their guns away, you're taking their country away, you're taking kids away.
It is immediate, it's personal, you imagine your life without that thing.
Taking of gas stoves, the taking of your car, and the side that is doing the taking tends to not be as popular.
And that's why abortion tends to be not a winning issue for us currently, is it feels as if we're going in and interfering and taking something away from people.
Putting that aside, It doesn't.
I just I can't imagine how the Democrats will spin this one.
And by the way, House Republicans, you want to get a PR win?
Drag the United Airlines CEO.
Yeah.
I mean, just the same way that what Elise Stefanik did with Harvard.
Bring this guy up.
I forgot about how bad it was with the FAA's, you know, gutting the standards.
So this was covered with Tucker Carlson back when I was there in 2018.
You can take the screen if you guys want.
And so part of this was they took a lot of the skill-based stuff and they replaced it with a biographical questionnaire.
Do you have the right traits to be a pilot?
They loved it.
Anytime you're running into affirmative action crap, they do this biographical questionnaire stuff.
That's how they always get away with hiring criminals and stuff.
So, starting in 2014, the FAA added a biographical questionnaire to the application process for being an air traffic controller.
Applicants with a lower aptitude in science got preference over applicants who had scored excellent in science, and applicants who had been unemployed for the previous three years got more points on the quiz than licensed pilots got.
They actively were looking for unqualified people to hire them and they do this they do this a lot.
And it's it's unreal and a story I linked this with in my head just now is Did you hear that the moon landing got delayed again?
So NASA was supposed to land on the moon in 2025, and I think that was already delayed from 2024.
Oh, I thought this was like a joke setup.
No, no, they're delaying the landing to 2026.
I actually thought it was a joke setup, too.
Even though I knew it was in the show chart, I still thought it was a joke setup.
NASA, because we have that Artemis program, which we named because it's going to send the first woman to the moon.
By the way, Elon would never mess around.
The first woman on the moon needs more time to get ready.
They're suing Elon because there's enough refugees.
I have an Elon theory after.
By the way, Jack and I are both reading the book together.
He wants to go to Mars to get away from diversity mandates.
Wait, Charlie, can I just say, though, I knew that the – and it's along these lines.
I knew that this mission was not going to work.
You know how I know that the moon landing wasn't going to work, this latest one they were talking about?
Because Elon hadn't talked about it.
If I heard it from him, I might say, okay, all right, yeah, if he was hyping it.
But the fact that he hasn't even mentioned it once is like, okay, yeah, it's not happening.
The-- So let's get to the next topic here, because we're already in an hour.
Oh yeah, okay.
So this was, we've got it, I think we have it, I think I sent it to you guys earlier, but if not I have it on the screen too.
So this is an article actually from Steve Saylor, who we've had on the show before.
He's great.
He had a thing in Tacky's Magazine where he has a weekly column, I encourage people to read it, and he calls it Drowning in Data.
And one of Steve's big things is he's famous for covering homicide stuff, but he also likes to talk about Traffic deaths and he likes to talk about drowning and a good number of people are aware There are racial gaps in how often people drown Black people unfortunately don't know how to swim as often They have a higher rate of drowning deaths.
And in fact, it can be pretty bad If you look at the CDC's own data drowning deaths per hundred thousand people It's about 1.5 per hundred thousand for black Americans and it's more like 1 per hundred thousand for like Hispanics and Asians, for example And that's, you know, that's many hundreds of people over the course of a year difference.
And he just points out one of the ways we used to fight against that was we used to encourage learning how to swim.
So, for example, American colleges used to have a swim test very frequently in order to graduate.
In fact, when I went to Dartmouth, that was a requirement at Dartmouth.
You had to pass a swim test when you showed up.
And if you did not pass it... You actually had to do it?
You got in a pool?
You had to do it.
Yeah.
And there were even stories of people who They didn't do it when they matriculated.
They put it off because you could take a class, of course.
They put it off and then it comes time to graduation and they're like, you guys haven't passed the swim test.
You don't get to walk.
And I'm pretty sure they got rid of it during COVID.
It feels very old Americana, like a really cool vestige of the past.
But what's depressing is they're getting rid of this.
And the justification is, you can probably guess, Charlie, take a wild guess what the justification for getting rid of swim tests for college is.
Racist?
It's racist.
It's not okay.
Because black kids don't swim.
They're less likely to know how to swim, and this is embarrassing for them.
And what Steve points out is, you know, he's like, as opposed to being anti-racist, I'm anti-drowning.
And I think we should not have people drown, even if it's of a certain race and it makes people feel awkward to confront it.
Well, so his other point, though, is that it's actually, he makes a point that it's about black women and their hair and getting wet.
Not just that, also that they have a higher obesity rate, is what he says.
Right, right.
So they don't want to get in the water, it's distressing, all of this stuff.
And so he ends the piece in this brilliant... I got the quote here.
Okay, go ahead.
My guess is that the chief agitators, and you can just see how Steve would say this, my guess is that the chief agitators for abolishing college swim requirements are black women who tend to be more Overweight than their rivals.
And he says, while many obese black women believe they look fine, the kind who get into Williams, that's a big, you know, liberal arts school.
It is the liberal arts school.
They tend to be aware that they don't match elite society's beauty standards while wearing bathing suits.
In turn, though, the chief victims of anti-swimism, as he says, are black men.
They're more likely to drown.
But in this age of Black Lives Matter, who cares about black lives?
Now I don't know if he's correct about that hypothesis of what's driving it.
It's super fascinating.
It's very Steve to think of that one.
And this is the same guy that we should tell the audience if you're not aware has done really incredible work highlighting traffic fatalities in post BLM and how it's actually killing a lot of Black drivers because they don't get pulled over anymore because that would be racist and in racial, you know, targeting.
And so it's actually killing a lot of black men.
And this is sort of a similar vein where it's like, well, racism is now killing more black people.
Steve Saylor has the radical point of view that fewer black people should drown, fewer black people should die in car wrecks, fewer black people should be run over, and fewer black people should be murdered.
And for that, he's considered super racist.
Again, this... So I... Go ahead.
Go ahead, Jack.
I was just going to say, you know, I do have some lived experience with this.
You know, so I was in the Navy, which means I went through a Navy boot camp.
And when you go through a Navy boot camp, you and a lot of people, I guess, didn't know this, or at least I found out didn't know this, that when you join the Navy, it is a requirement that you know how to swim.
So that if you fall off the boat, that hopefully there will be some chance of recovering you.
This, you know, I don't want to make light of that because apparently we actually lost two Navy SEALs earlier this week in a situation like this.
Now, obviously, we're a Navy SEAL.
Probably more than just falling happens, and you've got a lot of equipment with you and such, and so I certainly hope that their remains are recovered off the coast of Yemen, I believe is where it was.
Bab el-Mandeb area.
The situation being that when, so here's how it works.
You, you take the test and you know, you, you jump off of a, it's like 15 foot high diving board.
Uh, you jump in the pool.
I think you swim like 500 meters.
Um, it's an L shape, you know, as you have to do a turn and then you're allowed to do one of three different strokes as you swim, uh, breaststroke, the, uh, combat side stroke, or, or basically like the frog stroke.
So, you know, it's, it's pretty simple and, uh, you know, most people don't have a problem with it.
Then you have to show that you can float prone for five minutes.
And without touching the sides, and then you also have to show that you can, or the bottom, and then you have to show that you can use your coveralls as a flotation device.
Um, and it's, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's, most people pass it on the first go-around, but if you have not passed it on your first go-around, you then have to go every single day, twice a day, until you pass the test.
And I will just say that after, like, the first couple iterations of that, um, you know, it, it, it, Most of the people who were showing up for the remedial swim class in Navy boot camp, let's just say, they shared similar characteristics.
It was mostly black guys.
The point is, Jack, it's not racist.
It's a cultural thing.
And they get to go to the Navy, and they get to learn how to swim.
It actually might be biological, too.
They have lower body fat percentage on average, I think.
Tell me the story ends with the black dudes learning how to swim, even though they didn't grow up in communities, homes that like took them to swim class when they were four.
Well, generally, and generally people would try to help them, you know, or you get washed out.
Right.
And so I remember, you know, which is which is, you know, I think it's gonna be funny.
It's like, oh, yeah.
All right.
Jack Posobiec was trying to help like his black Shipmates, you know, learn how to swim or whatever.
Far-right extremist.
Yeah.
Pictured teaching black men to swim.
Yeah.
I mean, I said this line, I was like, I was like, it's, I was like, guys, all right, it's all psychological.
It really is all psychological, by the way.
And what I would say is, all right, if your body is 75% water, that means you only have to worry about floating 25%.
You guys can do 25% of effort.
It's not that hard.
And it was it just struck me as so wild that this, you know, even after so many days, there are a lot of people that couldn't get it.
But I will say, like, I have definitely 100% seen this with my own eyes.
It's not something that was was not known.
But unfortunately, we're now being told that we have to lower our standards in order to help with this.
And then more importantly, which is even crazier, I was just looking this up in show prep today.
For this, the US Navy The United States Naval Institute up in Rhode Island is now calling for the Coast Guard to lower their swim test because they're saying the Coast Guard isn't diverse enough because their swim test is much more involved than the one that I just said.
And I said, but wait a minute, shouldn't the Coast Guards be more involved?
Their job is literally to save people who are in distress at sea.
That's the point of the Coast Guard.
So they want to take those people and then, and I quote tweeted Steve Saylor for saying this, and it's, it's gone quite viral is to take the, the people whose job, imagine, right.
Imagine you're, you know, you're, you're someone James O'Keefe.
I mentioned him again, you know, he's a guy who, who enjoys sailboating.
Imagine something happens.
You get caught up in a storm squall, whatever.
Uh, and you need Coast Guard assistance.
And then now imagine you got someone coming that barely even knows how to swim or pass the checkbox and you're all dead.
Including the people trying to save you, by the way.
Well, this is where we need humor to come back, because I grew up in an America where black people joked about themselves not knowing how to swim.
And it was just kind of, like, culturally baked into the cake, and they all knew it was hilarious.
On the flip side, I'm spacing on the name, but there was an NFL player, or at least a draftee in the 80s, who drowned while trying to save some kids who were drowning.
He himself did not know how to swim, but he saw some children drowning and tried to save them, and he died.
And he was like a national hero for this.
It was a big deal.
I don't remember this story.
But wouldn't the solution just be teach them how to swim?
Well, that's the thing.
It's a healthy mindset.
Anyone can learn how to swim.
It's sort of growth mindset versus that's racist mindset.
Like, the best way you close the gap is... And there's a lot of things I don't know how to do, and I figure out how to do it.
Just imagine if we had a national thing.
Everyone should know how to swim in America.
Everybody... Okay.
In this group, who grew up with their parents taking them to swim class?
Of course, it was a priority.
Yeah, I went to swim lessons.
By the way, do you know why my parents told me?
They said, I never want you to be afraid on a boat or near water, and I'm not.
But in black culture, that is not as... the percentage is lower.
I don't know what the percentage is of how many black fam... maybe look it up.
It's like, how many black families... Of course, it's... I think it's in the article.
It's de-emphasized.
Yeah, it's culturally de-emphasized.
That's not because of racism, though.
No, it's culturally de-emphasized.
Unfortunately, though, unfortunately, and this is mentioned in the article as well, that black children dying in like motel or hotel pools because they see the pool and they want to get in and they want to have fun, unfortunately, it's at a much higher rate than white kids or Hispanic kids.
And of course, You know, here we are on Throckheim, where it's like, oh, it's like, oh, haha, we're gonna laugh.
It's like, no, actually, we're not laughing.
We're saying this is obviously a problem in the United States that we would like to see fixed.
Same as the homicide problem, same as the car, you know, the traffic fatality problem.
Again, we want to live in a world where these things aren't happening, but we have to actually be able to talk about them first before we can deal with that.
I just wanted to say, the name of the player is Joe Delaney.
So he got a Residential Citizenship.
I mean, let's just be honest, 75% of blacks don't have a dad around, and learning to swim is largely the dad's deal.
My mom took me.
I'm not sure about that.
I do.
Right, Jack?
Do you agree?
Yeah, my dad would strap my floaties on and then just throw me in the above-ground pool at my nana's house.
I was gonna say, dads take the kids on the adventure.
My experience is it's sort of, it's one of those parenting things, you know, mom shows you a swim class when you're five.
She could know that's different though, but the instructors, at least from my experience, were largely male.
It's more hands-on, it's more, I don't know, maybe I'm wrong.
Yeah, I had the exact opposite experience.
That's the only reason why I'm kind of going like, my mom took me to swim class while my dad was at work or whatever.
And then, but I will tell you, I went on more water adventures with my dad, where I actually had to put it into practice, where I got comfortable in the water.
So at lakes and things like that.
Fishing.
So, yeah.
Oh, yeah.
This is another reason to be sad.
The Boy Scouts are terrible now because swimming.
Don't get Charlie started on it.
Don't get it.
I'm an Eagle Scout.
Same here.
And it's really heartbreaking.
What's the what's the other one, Charlie?
What's the what's like a replacement organization?
Trail Life.
Yeah.
Trail Life.
Yeah.
I just read there.
They just did a partnership with Brave Books, actually.
Oh, did they?
That's good.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We just read it the other day.
But of course, I can't remember what's on my head.
Yeah.
Trail Life.
So I want to do a little audible, guys, here, if that's okay.
But Jack, I think that'd be a fun last segment, because you and I were involved in this.
What do you think?
As kind of an audible at the end, because it's this week, just replying to all the MLK incoming that you and I got.
Oh, yeah, sure.
I think it'd be really great.
These people that I actually know that refuse not to text or email or call, but they write these incredibly, dare I say, sanctimonious, snobbish op-eds, and... From a totally emotional standpoint, by the way.
I just want everyone, this is what's so cool, is that I had somebody text me... There was one guy, his name rhymes with Saurabh Amari.
Yeah, I even forgot about him.
What an awful piece.
It was barely legible.
I mean, it's like, his vocabulary... And I texted him that.
I said, You... What is this?
You were on the text, by the way.
I... I was so disappointed in that piece.
Actually, I'm glad you brought that up and reminded me, because there's one piece that... I like Saurabh.
Wait, wait, wait, Charlie.
I want to be clear.
I want to explain what we're talking about.
It was intellectually so shallow.
Okay, but Saurabh has... We like him on one issue.
Well, he was great against David French.
Well, he's not great anymore.
Well, okay.
Hold on.
Wait, wait, wait, guys, guys.
We haven't explained what exactly we're talking about.
Yeah, what are we explaining?
People can't understand the conversation if you don't say we're talking about MLK.
MLK!
Well, maybe we didn't.
I don't know.
So, Charlie took on MLK, but this is what was funny about it.
Charlie, you brought it up in a passing comment.
Wired somehow got the clip and was like, Charlie's going to... Well, we said it at AmFest, too, at a breakout.
And we posted it to our podcast feed, which is fine.
I mean, I owned it.
Yeah, so then we were like, oh, we really should go hard.
Honestly, we probably wouldn't have gone so hard on it.
Jack, you were extremely supportive, I will say.
Not even just during Martin Luther King Day, but before, you caught the vision.
And Charlie, to your credit, you said, listen, I grew up Sort of like everybody else, thinking MLK could do no wrong.
Then we found out more, and we changed our mind because – and by the way, you didn't major on this on MLK Day.
I'm telling you my personal visceral reaction reading some of the FBI accounts of this man.
When we say he was a serial adulterer, that does not do justice to just how disgusting he was, according to the FBI.
Orgies.
We're talking orgies.
Running train on parishioner women.
And I think you can say that.
Can you say that?
That's what Vince Ellison said, so I'm just quoting him.
By the way, he was brilliant.
And by the way, the media ignored him.
Do you notice that not a single piece attacking me mentioned Vince Ellison?
No.
And Vince called him a false prophet.
He said, look at the fruit of his movement.
The black community is worse off.
But I'm telling you, what's the author's name?
Gallo?
Garrow.
He's an MLK scholar.
He's a Pulitzer.
He basically says there's no reason to doubt the FBI's telling of events because there was no precedent at the time for these hidden files to be released to the public.
So this was pre-church committee.
And you could tell they were like a dog with a bone.
They saw what a degenerate He was.
He even distinguishes it from some of the communist stuff on King, which we went into.
A lot of his friends were associated with communists.
But he's written stuff where he says there's no reason to believe MLK himself was a communist.
Maybe friendly with them, maybe too close to them.
That's up to interpretation.
But not himself a communist.
And then he distinguishes that from the adultery stuff where he says, and he also says a lot of the communist stuff on King is secondhand, thirdhand.
From the adultery stuff where he says, and he also says a lot of the communist stuff on King is secondhand, thirdhand.
Someone's like, I knew him, and he seemed sympathetic.
Someone's like, I knew him, and he seemed sympathetic.
And then with the adultery stuff, it's all these FBI guys saying, yeah, we bugged his phone, which they did do.
And then with the adultery stuff, it's all these FBI guys saying, yeah, we bugged his phone, which they did do.
And it's crazy what we're hearing.
And it's crazy what we're hearing.
And then Hoover, who, you know, he has some issues.
Historically, we could get into that.
But you could tell it was like it captured his imagination.
So he's like, bug that place and bug that place.
So every hotel he's going to, they're bugging and getting ahead of him in advance.
And they are like, whoa.
He just has another woman here, and he's got another woman here, and he's so flagrant about it.
And so, what was the word he used, Garrow?
He said body.
He had this body sense of humor.
He was like this sick, maniacal, joking disposition toward these women that he used and abused and threw out.
And he was a pastor, and that's what's important.
There's an allegation in one of, I can't have in front of me, it was one of the articles I read while researching this, but Apparently, they got a phone call where Coretta Scott King, his wife, is complaining.
You don't spend enough time at home.
And he apparently replies by saying, yeah, you should have a guy on the side, too.
Yeah, go have some affairs.
And this is the part that is just so crazy to me.
How you cannot see this, people.
You do not live a private life like this.
And have it not affect what you believe and your value set and the way that you approach the world.
You cannot look at this man the same way once you know this about him.
Well, and so also he has a higher approval rating than Jesus.
Yes, and he called himself a reverend.
So 96% approval rating.
He's a fraud.
Jesus is at 90.
And there's so much more here, but I just want to kind of just read some of this here.
And one of my favorite, I mean, I just, I chuckle at this.
This guy, Armstrong Williams, who I like, and he's a friend.
He could have called me or emailed me, but he's afraid to call me or email me because he know I wouldn't put up with it.
So instead he just writes the article and then hides behind it.
Quote, Kirk's assault on Dr. King is as farcical, is that how you say it?
Farcical.
Yeah.
Not a word I use.
As would a middle school student's critique of Albert Einstein's theories As ludicrous as Pontius Pilate's declaiming against Jesus' Sermon on the Mount.
Oh, so questioning MLK is challenging the laws of physics and Jesus Christ.
What's great is it actually supports what we said, which is he's become a Christ-like figure in America.
We picked dangerous fights, you gotta say.
It's so funny.
It's like people say, oh no, he's not a Christ-like figure.
By the way, going after him, you might as well attack Jesus.
Like, whoa, whoa, whoa, which is it?
And mind you, not a single one of these articles by this other guy I've never heard of, Delano Squires.
The Blaze attacked me.
I don't know why the Blaze is attacking me.
Would love an explanation for that.
Why they're writing articles against us.
You know, anyway, it really ticks me off.
And so yeah, he writes this Martin Luther King versus Charlie Kirk and the irreverent right and this is my he says quote Conservatives claim that the history of slavery in America should not be judged by today's moral standards This is this is guy such a moron.
This is a dumb art.
This is really dumb yet.
They blame.
Dr. King quote for ideas They find objectionable today more than 50 years after he was assessed.
Wait a second No running train on congregants was wrong 50 years ago pal.
This is what we point out raping women was wrong 50 years ago Yeah We point out that, at the time, he actually was a very disputed figure, and his popularity was going down.
He wasn't popular, and then the best argument that I hope people understand, and then, okay, so I dialogue with people I respect who disagree, they say, I don't know, the myth of MLK must live on.
Oh, okay, so acknowledge it's a myth, that's fine, it's a helpful myth, it's the best myth, that's fine, but the people that defend this bitterly, I just want to make this final point, which is, hold on a second, You do realize, as he got the Civil Rights Act passed, and the Voting Rights Act passed, and the Great Society, he got angrier and demanded more money from white people.
He was like revolutionary by the time he was assassinated.
Oh yeah, let me read some of these quotes.
I was just texting this.
Let me just read some of this, because I think it's important.
He said white Americans, this is near the end of his life, must recognize that justice for black people cannot be achieved without radical changes in the structure of our society.
That's how a race Marxist talks.
That is how Ta-Nehisi Coates or even Mex Kendi or Kimberly Crenshaw talks.
Jack, we both tweeted about this.
Talk about it.
Look, um, You know, and we've talked about the personal failings here, and this is huge, right?
And I know that Matt Walsh wrote a piece about this as well and said, you know, if we're going to talk about, you know, Thomas Jefferson and Washington holding slaves, then we can talk about the personal failings of others.
But I think it's different because Thomas Jefferson and George Washington have a legacy, which is called the United States of America and our constitutional republic.
And, you know, obviously we're trying to fix that.
And Charlie, you had a fantastic interview with Curtis Yarvin all about that this week.
But they have a legacy that you can point to.
Whereas it's really the legacy of Martin Luther King that we're also questioning, okay?
Rather than just the personal life, we're also questioning the public life.
And we're saying, did it make sense for him to not fully condemn the rioting that was going on during the time?
Did it make sense for him to push for these bills that radically changed our government?
Interestingly enough, the Libertarian Party came out in full support of everything that we were saying.
They talked about the Civil Rights Act.
They talked about how the Voting Rights Act is just completely racist in the way it deals with districting and the way it gerrymanders.
It requires districts to be gerrymandered along racial lines.
Talked about how the Civil Rights Act essentially enshrined race consciousness in federal policy.
And there's many, many more examples of this.
And so the question is, are we questioning Martin Luther King's status as an American myth, or are we questioning whether or not the legacy of Martin Luther King, which we live under now Today is something that we still want to live under Because if we're actually fighting this stuff, we've got to fight it at its root.
Frederick Douglass, Ben Carson, Thomas Sowell, And Justice Clarence Thomas are far better black role models to celebrate than Martin Luther King.
Period.
End of story.
But I don't want to get too deep into this.
Take a listen to the episode.
But Blake, you were part of this.
What's your reaction on this whole week?
This has been interesting.
I definitely agree with Jack.
The reason... I think you would have a point.
Like, why are you just going after this, like, long dead martyr if that was kind of the only thing it is?
But he is a lynchpin.
He's a key figure of a narrative that kind of dictates the way America is today in a lot of ways that all conservatives find objectionable.
We're always like, why does political correctness rule everything?
Why does everything seem race-obsessed?
Why is the government kind of trying to socially engineer everything in all these ways?
And it all goes back to the 60s.
Well, why can't we change any of the laws in the 60s?
Because they aren't normal laws.
They've become this sort of sacred scripture, they've become the testament of a national martyr and hero that we've made a holiday out of.
It's just untouchable.
And so this is especially what I think has to be brought up when we talk to conservatives about this who complain and they're just like, "How can you do this?
This is not productive." Well, as we said on Monday, if you want to change this, this actually is something that you're going to have to confront.
Because to make the necessary changes, you have to get over the hump of, well, we have these laws from the 60s that make it impossible to do otherwise.
And what's funny to me is, we actually were able to get over it with the Voting Rights Act a few years ago.
Like, in the early 2010s, we were getting serious Republican legal challenges to parts of the Voting Rights Act that made it essentially impossible to do certain forms of election integrity.
We just said, hey, this is a massive restriction on states' rights.
One of the big ones was, the Voting Rights Act had components of it, where you just, huge chunks of America, specific counties and entire states, we singled them out and we just said, you're not allowed to make your own election laws unless the Department of Justice clears it.
And so you'd get these things where the Department of Justice would just say, oh yeah, you can't have non-partisan elections because, uh, would hurt Democrats, sorry, you can't do it.
And so they sued and said, OK, at a minimum, it has to be possible to get off this list.
And the Supreme Court ruled that way.
And that was a challenge to the Voting Rights Act.
And then you had to campaign against the Voting Rights Act.
And that's kind of the bigger picture of this, is if you want to have strength as conservatives, you have to have an internal moral locus of control where you can
go against something like but this is called the you know good things and happy children and puppies act you don't oppose the good things and happy children and puppies act and we're like yeah we do because that law is bad and that's kind of what you have to learn to be able to do with the civil rights act you can say civil rights are good you can say equality is good non-discrimination is good but the civil rights act is a specific law with specific effects many of them are harmful and we kind of have to train conservatives to think that way and it might be that this is A way we have to do it.
I will say outside of 8-10 strongly worded op-eds and 100-200 tweets of the Intelligentsia, the rank and file have been overwhelmingly supportive.
And that's really, really promising about this week.
I'm talking about very few negative emails, in fact overwhelmingly positive, very few negative text messages.
And it kind of goes to show that sometimes the Intelligentsia, they're not in touch with what the people actually want.
They desire truth.
Running out of time, final thoughts, Jack?
Look, there are times when you need to push the Overton window.
Okay?
There are times.
And I think this is, I don't think it should be done for fun.
I don't think it should be done lightly.
I don't think it should be done without purpose.
And I think in this situation, we actually have found and struck all three of those.
It is not being done lightly.
It is being done for a purpose and is not just being done for fun.
In fact, I wouldn't say this was very fun, actually, in terms of all the things that we got into.
But it actually does serve this purpose because if we were going to get to, and Blake and I talked about this on our, you know, episode that kind of kicked all this off, that we do want to get to this ideal of a colorblind society, but you're never going to do that with the weight of the 60s hung around our necks like an albatross.
Alright guys, we are out of time.
Keep committing thought crimes.
Email us freedom at charliekirk.com thoughtcrime.
The whole existence is a big thought crime.
These are our thought criminals.
That's right.
Steve Saylor, shoutout to the grandfather of thoughtcrime.
Whether they sit at the front of the bus or the back of the bus, the bus driver should be hired purely on merit.
Jack, what did you say?
I said, oh I said shoutout to Steve Saylor, the grandfather of thoughtcrime.
