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Nov. 10, 2023 - Human Events Daily - Jack Posobiec
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EPISODE 602: FREE SPEECH UNDER FIRE: THE DOUGLAS MACKEY AND AMY HAMM CASES

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This is what happens when the fourth turning meets fifth generation warfare.
A commentator, international social media sensation, and former Navy intelligence veteran.
This is Human Events with your host, Jack Posobiec.
Deliver us from evil!
No pause in Israel's war with Hamas.
Israel releasing new video of airstrikes.
A ceasefire with Hamas means surrender to Hamas.
Filmed from a children's hospital this morning, Israeli tanks on the streets of Gaza City.
But for the families of Israeli hostages taken in the October 7th terror attacks, where 1,400 were killed, any pause is hopeful.
Diplomacy is inching along with China.
Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen met with her Chinese counterpart one week before President Biden meets with President Xi Jinping.
The United States has no desire to decouple from China.
The Spanish Prime Minister, Pedro Sanchez, has secured the support of Catalan separatist party in order to form new government.
The Spanish government and Catalonia separatist party, the Junts, have reached on an agreement over proposing amnesty bill.
Now the move sparked large-scale protests in capital Madrid over separating Catalonia from Spain.
The federal trial is underway in San Francisco for a man accused in the attack on Paul Pelosi.
David Dupap is accused of breaking into their San Francisco home and using a hammer to attack Mr. Pelosi.
An all-day manhunt in New Jersey for a man wanted for the January 6th attack on the US Capitol.
Gregory Yetman ran into the woods when cops tried to arrest him in Helmeta.
You posted this on Twitter.
This is a meme.
It says, save time, avoid the line, vote from home.
And it's got a picture of Hillary Clinton.
Text Hillary to this number.
And you posted it on Twitter.
What was the point of that?
Just sort of a joke.
Rile up everybody, muddy the waters.
I had eight to 10 law enforcement agents come and lock on my door at 7 a.m., seven days after Joe Biden was inaugurated.
This is Libby Emmons for Human Events Daily and for Jack Posobiec.
Thanks for joining us today.
A man is going to federal prison for a meme.
He's going to prison for satire, for a joke.
It began back during the meme wars of 2016 when memesters across the web were sending out jokes, essentially political cartoons making fun of presidential candidate Hillary Clinton, boosting Donald Trump, and generally wrecking glorious havoc on political discourse across the web.
Douglas Mackey shared a meme that essentially made the joke that Hillary Clinton supporters were too lacking in intelligence To realize they couldn't submit their vote by text.
Avoid the line, the joke said.
Vote from home.
It was funny.
It was not a big deal.
It didn't sway anyone to think they could vote via text.
Biden's Department of Justice couldn't even find anyone who believed it was true or who actually tried to vote by text.
A Clinton supporter did the same thing, instructing Trump voters to vote on the wrong day.
Can we see that video from Christina Wong?
Hey everybody, this is Christina Wong.
And I'm coming out.
I'm a Trump supporter.
And I just want to remind all my fellow Chinese Americans for Trump, people of color for Trump, to vote.
Vote for Trump on Wednesday, November 9th.
Really important day.
We're going to show this country who's boss.
And that's our man, Donald Trump.
So don't forget to vote Donald Trump on November 9th.
Christina Wong was not arrested for her joke.
She will not be going to prison for seven months because of it.
But this has gone far beyond a double standard.
This is the political prosecution of speech.
Imagine if George Bush had gone after Jon Stewart.
Imagine if Trump had gone after Alec Baldwin or Nixon went after George Carlin.
Would any of that have been tolerated?
What about prosecution for political cartoons?
But Hillary Clinton celebrated the prosecution and imprisonment of a man for making a joke at her expense.
She said the meme went from what you would consider free speech to running a very deliberate effort to mislead people about where and how to vote.
So it went from speech to action meant to subvert the election.
The ACLU agreed.
The whole thing is insane.
Yet we're not seeing any outcries from those who believe themselves to be staunch defenders of free speech.
We're seeing tweets, sure, but where is the organized effort to oppose this disastrous violation of our First Amendment rights?
Americans have allowed their rights to be beaten so far into the ground that we stand idly by while a man is imprisoned for making a joke.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people to peaceably assemble and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
That means we get to make jokes, we get to go to church, we get to protest in favor of our rights.
Mackey isn't the only one.
In the UK, in Canada, in Europe, we see people charged with crimes for liking tweets, like an MP in Poland, or complaining about immigration, like a man in the UK, or saying men aren't women, like in Canada.
I always thought America was better than that.
I thought we were a land of the free, a land where we could speak our minds without fear of government retribution.
What the Mackey case shows us is not that I was wrong, but that we have let our guard down.
We have become complacent.
Our rights are worth fighting for, and without our First Amendment, the rest will also fall to ruin.
These rights are not government-granted, they are God-given, and if the government doesn't respect that, it's time to remind our elected leaders that our rights are absolute, and that we don't work for the government, the government works for us.
And if it isn't working, it's our right to change it.
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Make sure you're subscribed, you hit the notifications so you'll never miss a clip, you'll never miss a new live episode, and we're putting them out every single day of the week.
You can't be listening to all that slappy-whack-trematizolets-a-bam-ship-nippy-bam-bam like Human Events with Jack Posobiec.
This is Libby Emmons in for Jack Posobiec on Human Events Daily.
Thanks for joining us.
When my great-grandparents emigrated to the U.S.
from Italy, from Norway, they wanted to be American.
They brought their customs, their culture, their language, their cuisine, and they worked hard to become part of the country they loved.
They left behind their traditions and motherland in search of new opportunities and a better life than the one they left behind.
They were terrified to hear my nonna and my best amore tell it as they embraced the unknown, but they did it anyway.
Adopting new customs, they embraced American culture.
They learned English and they raised their children to love America.
Immigration was the precursor to assimilation, to becoming part of the fabric of the nation.
I'm three generations past those ancestors and I am that which they aspired to be, American.
I can claim no other nation as my home, and no other nation can claim me.
I'm proud of it.
I'm grateful to the veterans who fought and died for our rights, for our land, for our way of life, and I'm dedicated.
to passing these ways on in my family, but this is not the perspective we see of many immigrants to the U.S.
or to the U.K., and in many ways, the collapse of Western culture in on itself, our shame for our own prosperity, has led to our own nation telling immigrants that they should not want to be American, that the cultures they are leaving behind are better than the ones they are coming to.
I don't believe that's true, but our culture and our foundations are at risk amidst this onslaught.
What we see now are immigrants who don't want to become part of the country they come to, but who want to recreate that country in the image of the one they left behind.
They want to import and embed their customs, culture, and language, and there's no plan among them to cast it off.
He's here to talk about it.
Hey, Andy.
to overtake the existing culture, scuttle American ideals into the dustbin of obsolescence.
Nowhere has this been more clear than in the recent waves of protests that have rocked London and Europe, where immigrants and the children of immigrants have taken to the streets to demand that the country that took them in transform itself to suit them.
Post-millennial senior editor Andy Ngo has covered some of those protests and has a long history of covering civil unrest and its origins in the U.S.
He's here to talk about it.
Hey, Andy, how's it going?
Thanks for having me on.
Thanks so much, Andy.
I really appreciate it.
We've seen a lot of the coverage that you've been doing in London, going out there and covering some of these street protests.
Can you tell us a little bit about what the atmosphere has been like out there?
I know that there's been some clashes.
So London, like America and Europe and really the rest of the Western world, has been rocked by weeks of Demonstrations since the 7th of October, which is when Hamas launched its terror attacks in southern Israel.
In the first couple of weeks, I would say the demonstrations that I observed were more celebratory.
People were celebrating what they viewed as the resistance.
And by that, they're using euphemism for celebration of the terrorist attacks.
But as the ground invasion by Israeli forces has happened into Gaza now, it's taken more of, there's more anger and there's more violence.
What I've noticed that's different about the demonstrations in Europe compared to the United States is that the religious element is a bit more at the forefront.
We have seen some of the Islamic elements come out of the demonstrations in the U.S., for example, through mass prayers that have happened in D.C., in Soho, in Minneapolis, these acts of people taking over streets and public areas and doing prayers, which ostensibly, perhaps to the American eyes, might look innocent as people engaging in a private and personal religious activity.
But in fact, It actually is using a model that Islamists have used in Europe for decades now, which is an act of force, and in my view, an act of provocation against the state, showing that we are going to prey on your streets in public and there's nothing you can do about it as we take over your parks or main streets, shut down the roads.
So that has featured in these protests in London more predominantly.
You have religious chants, often in Arabic, that do incite violence.
And if you don't speak Arabic or you're not familiar with them, it will go over your head completely.
As I noticed with some of these white leftist protesters who go along, they have no idea that these people are chanting for Mohammed's army to come again and slaughter the Jews, in the word they use is Yahud, which is Jews.
That's not the same word as Israeli.
They've called for Hamas to bomb Tel Aviv.
And there have been a number of arrests that the Metropolitan Police in London have made for terror offenses, incitement to violence, racism.
So while not the entire demonstration Is extremists, there are pockets over and over that we see every time.
And certainly, you know, you look at the treatment of Trump rallies, going back to 2015.
Anytime there was somebody with bringing some type of far right symbol out, the entire demonstration was painted in the entire MAGA movement was painted as far right and extremist because of one person with the flag.
Well, in these cases, you have Not just one, but dozens and dozens of people chanting and showing symbols of extremism.
What has the police response been like and what has the response been like from British people who are out there?
I know that I saw near the Cenotaph some there were some veterans protesting.
They were trying to say not for the Islamic protesters to attack the Cenotaph, which is something they were worried about.
What has what has that response been like from officers?
So there's a segment of the British population who are really protective of their monuments and statues.
I think because, I mean, England is a much, much older nation than America.
And some of these monuments and symbols have a lot of meaning to the people here.
And unfortunately, some of those monuments in central London, close to Parliament, Have been in the eyes of some been desecrated by these mass Palestine protests, for example, people putting up Palestine symbols on essentially what are some of these are monuments to those who have died.
And so leading up to this this weekend on Saturday, the 11th of November is Remembrance Day.
It's the same in the U.S.
We call it Veterans Day.
It's a solemn day of huge significance to the British public, given they sacrificed so heavily in the World Wars.
I think, you know, America is a much bigger country.
We've had larger waves of migration of people whose ancestors didn't serve in the World Wars.
So for a lot of Americans, it can be kind of You know, Veterans Day can be a bit disconnected to them.
Whereas in Britain, you have a lot of people in living memory and people whose grandparents remember what the war time was like.
And on this day, it falls on a Saturday this year, and the Palestine protesters have announced that they're going to go ahead with their so-called Million Man March.
They're busing in people from all around England for this cause.
Some of the organizers of the Palestine demonstration have links to Hamas and Islamist extremism.
Police did plead with the organizers for them to cancel the Saturday event, given that it coincides with celebrations in central London, not celebrations, but moment of silence in central London, time to honor those who died in the war and sacrifice their lives.
For the nation.
But the organizers refuse.
It's going ahead.
And their march route is going to lead them right at the end to target the U.S.
Embassy.
This is what they've officially announced.
So the atmosphere is a bit tense right now for the politicians in London, given that you have potentially all these different factions coming into central London.
You have Patriotic, conservative British people honoring veterans.
Then you have Islamists and leftists and police in recent weeks have been really, they've been unable to respond on the ground as these protests are happening because the sheer number is just of people showing up.
It's too big for them to do anything.
So they're not really able to control these crowds.
The British police have not been able to control the crowds.
I saw a clip of a man who had posted on social media that he didn't like all the Palestinian flags going up and down the high street where he lived.
And he was arrested for that.
He was arrested basically on a hate crime.
Are you seeing a lot of hate crime allegations against British people who don't like this kind of demonstration in their public spaces?
So the Secretary for the Home Office, which would be the equivalent role of the head of DHS, she's actually been very vocal in her criticisms of police.
She wrote a column this week that was published in The Times pointing out how the Metropolitan Police, for example, during the 2020 BLM protests, which at times were violent in London, that police took a really hands-off approach, whereas those who are protesting lockdown, were arrested, tackled to the ground.
She brought up how environmentalist protesters have been able to shut down the roads and do other criminal and illegal activities where police just sort of stand by.
And then she's brought up, again, how the Palestinian protesters have been able to do essentially what they want while police don't appear to respond.
And so she brought out what she viewed as an inconsistency in policing here in the And depending on what cause the protesters are for, police may respond very harshly and quickly or not.
And that has caused a big row, actually, among lawmakers right now, because obviously politicians on the left said that she she went too far in her criticisms, that she should be she should be sacked.
Mm-hmm.
But others are coming out to defend it.
Okay.
Well, thank you so much for filling us in on what's going on in London.
I know that we're all going to be anxiously watching what happens this weekend, and especially at the U.S.
Embassy.
That's pretty fascinating.
Today, you know, you talk about influences.
These are influences.
And they're friends of mine.
Jack.
Where's Jack?
Jack.
He's got a great job.
Going up!
Close the border!
Yeah!
Do you guys want to close the border right now?
Yes!
Yeah!
We need to close the border and I think our favorite part is lower taxes and our gas.
Our gas needs to come back down.
What brings you out to see President Trump today?
Who wouldn't want to see President Trump?
I'm here from Charlotte, North Carolina.
Wow!
Charlotte, North Carolina.
What compelled you to come all the way from Charlotte?
It's a Trump rally and we have to get the truth out.
That's the only way we can save America.
Is this your first rally?
First rally, first time, best thing I've ever done in life.
What are some of your favorite Trump policies?
America first, build the wall, deport them all.
What are some of your favorite Trump policies?
Immigration, economy, education.
Ah, so many!
They need to close the border.
It's already 40 million illegal immigrants.
Militia!
Militia!
Not illegal immigrants only.
There are militia.
They're coming around the world.
This is Libby Emmons with Human Events Daily in for Jack Posobiec.
We have a special guest coming to talk to us today.
Bringing some light to the show is War Room's Jane Zirkle.
She was out in Hialeah in advance of Trump's rally this week and is here to tell us what Americans are looking forward to and thinking about as we head full force into the election season of 2024.
And before we get started, Jane, I just wanted to say happy birthday.
I know it's your birthday today and I hope you have a Terrific one.
Thank you so much, and yes, I was out in the blistering heat in Hialeah, Florida, but I was in great company because I was surrounded by thousands of American-loving patriots who were so excited to see President Trump.
It was a really cool day because not only, like many there, was their first rally, it was my first Trump rally as well, so it was a true treat, and getting to speak to all the attendees was just so awesome.
So what were some of the things that the attendees were telling you about why it is that they are looking forward to bringing Trump back into office?
Well, it really goes back to the policies that launched him into stardom back during his 2016 campaign.
National security, the border, those issues are at the forefront of people's minds right now.
And I mean, can you blame them?
We have literal terrorists crossing our southern border right now.
We have upheaval in the Middle East like we never saw under President Trump.
President Trump brought peace.
He brought prosperity.
You know, gas prices were another major concern, like the clip showed, as the woman said at the rally.
The economy, because people cannot make ends meet right now.
Food, inflation, it's absolutely out of control under the Biden regime.
And I think what was so important about this particular rally was its location in Hialeah, Florida, in Miami-Dade County, one of the most influential counties in all of Florida and in all of the nation when it comes to politics.
This was a majority immigrant community.
This was a majority Hispanic community.
And I think it was a really great representation of the diverse range that President Trump represents when it comes to his supporters, you know.
It was really touching because while there was a language barrier with a lot of the people who I spoke to at the rally, one of the things that they were able to get across to me was that they loved President Trump, they loved what he stands for, they love freedom, and they want to make America great again.
And it was really touching to connect with people, you know, who have a different background than myself and come together around President Trump and supporting freedom and of course making America great again.
So one of the things that I think is so interesting and is so different is when we see supporters of some of the other candidates, a lot of what we hear are the really negative things.
And they say that they want their candidate to come in and deal with all these really negative things.
But one thing that's different about Trump supporters is a lot of what you hear is hope.
You hear a lot of hope for the future, a lot of hope for, you know, Trump's potential second term in office.
What is it that gives, do you think, that gives people so much hope about a Trump presidency?
I think they saw the shining beacon of light that he was back in 2016 and 2020.
And he has a lot of unfinished business.
He does.
And they really think that it's time for him to come back, especially with the current state of the country under Joe Biden.
Things have gotten that bad that I think so many people, you know, he's brought a lot of new supporters over to him.
And we've seen that through the polling.
You know, he's surging with Hispanic voters, he's surging with the black community, and that was definitely represented at this rally Wednesday night.
And another big announcement that happened during the rally, the mayor of Hialeah announced that right outside the stadium that the event was held at, President Trump Avenue will be created right outside of the rally location.
So that was a big highlight from the rally the other night.
And it got thunderous applause.
The attendees absolutely loved that.
It was very clear that that is MAGA country, that Florida is MAGA country.
And of course, across town, the presidential debate was taking place.
And I use that term very loosely because, of course, most of these people are barely pulling in at a few percent, and President Trump is just absolutely dominating the field.
And it's very clear that President Trump was the winner of the debate Wednesday night.
Yeah, I think that he has actually won the last couple of debates, even though he hasn't been on stage.
Isn't that amazing?
Yeah, it's the way that they take aim at him instead of really getting their own points across or advocating for their own perspective is really fascinating to see.
It's like they know that they can't get out from under Trump's shadow, so they just stand there trying to shine a flashlight around, but they're not able to make To make much light.
A lot of the people that you were talking to out at the rally, there were a lot of immigrants that you spoke to who were saying that they were really interested in bringing Trump back to office.
We hear a lot from the Democrats and the Biden administration that, you know, That immigrants aren't going to like Trump, they seem to be bringing so many illegal immigrants into the country specifically for the purpose of turning them into Democrats, you know, that kind of thing.
What is it that you think makes Trump so appealing to immigrants, you know, specifically Hispanic immigrants who are still coming to this country at record numbers?
You know, whether you're an immigrant or whether you were born here in the United States, it doesn't matter.
We all bleed red.
We're all under the red, white, and blue.
And we all want the same things for our families.
We want safety.
We want security.
And with an open border under Joe Biden, we just don't have that right now.
We want peace.
Families do not want to see their children shift off.
to foreign wars and foreign battlefields.
And under President Trump, there was no new wars.
And people remember that, you know.
It was obviously not too long ago that we had peace, that we had low gas prices.
And people want that back.
They want to be able to live the American dream.
And they see that in President Trump. - We've also seen in some of the recent poll numbers out from Times Siena, we saw that a lot of young Americans have real dismay when it comes to Joe Biden.
They're just not interested in what he has to say and their approval rating for him has really gone down.
Why do you think that is?
I think they're getting a taste of reality.
You know, it's unfortunate they sort of, they got what they voted for.
And it's a tough lesson to learn, especially when you're young.
But when you have to face reality, when you have to pay your bills, and you actually have to function in society, and you don't just get the government to pay for everything for you, you realize that the economy is actually incredibly important.
And you need economically sound candidates like President Trump.
So as far as young voters go, we've seen a lot over the past years where young voters specifically are going out to vote for Democrats.
Do you think that there is a likelihood that young voters will come out and support Trump despite all of the negativity?
I know that you're definitely part of the younger generation.
You probably see your peers and colleagues.
What is it that they are thinking?
Do you think that it's possible What is the chance there?
for Trump and for the Trump campaign to bring in new and younger voters and not just the same, what was it, like 72 million people that voted for him during the last election?
What is the chance there?
What are we looking at?
I think of any GOP candidate, it's clear that President Trump has the broadest range and strongest ability to reach voters from all ages and all backgrounds.
And we've seen him do it before.
He draws in, you know, new support like no other Republican candidate has ever done before.
You see these massive crowds that he draws in.
And at this rally in Hialeah, every group was represented.
And I think that if there's one man who can do that, it's 100 percent Donald J. Trump.
The time is now to bring him back.
And we need him now more than ever.
Well, I think that's I think that's so interesting when we see the big demographic that is going for Trump, especially when we see in polling numbers that Biden is losing support among Hispanics.
He's losing support among black Americans.
And even in the states, what was it?
It was like five swing states where Trump was definitely ahead.
And one of them, which I think like the whitest state of all six, is the one where Biden was beating.
Doing well.
It's so fascinating and I'm so interested to see what's going to be coming in 2024.
If you had to guess who Trump should pick as a VP, we just saw some talk yesterday that he would potentially consider Tucker Carlson.
Do you think Tucker Carlson would be a good choice?
And if not, who do you think Trump should pick as his running mate?
You know, I really don't want to speculate on the matter.
I trust President Trump's judgment.
I'm sure whoever gets the wonderful opportunity to serve as Vice President will do a fantastic job, and I think President Trump, you know, has several different options when it comes to that, so I'm very excited to see how that plays out.
But I do have to say, as far as the other candidates currently go, especially with what's going on with the weaponization and the lawfare that's being waged against him, their time would be much better spent Do you think that they should have another GOP debate?
Donald Trump through this and stand up against the deep state apparatus that is really waging a witch hunt against him rather than running for president and polling at these incredibly low numbers.
Do you think that they should have another GOP debate or do you think they should just scrap it from here on out?
I think they're a big waste of time.
I think the real main event was the rally in Hialeah and I don't really think anybody cares what these other people have to say right now because we have way bigger issues that we need to be focusing on.
What's your take on the RNC currently?
You know, I think that there's some work to be done there.
I think we definitely need to take a look and examine and see why aren't we winning key races that honestly we should be.
There's always room for improvement and I think with Donald Trump in 2024, there's a great opportunity to take a lot of these local races to the next level.
So I feel like it's important we build on Trump's momentum going into the next election.
Thanks so much, Jane.
I really appreciate your taking the time to give us your perspective today.
Thank you so much.
And I hope maybe we can see you out at the next rally as well.
I'd love that, for sure.
Thank you.
Thank you so much.
We'll be back in just a few minutes with Amy Eileen Hamm, a nurse from British Columbia, who has an awful lot to say about free speech and the reality of biology.
My ear about the boring people at your office.
I'm trying to listen to the new human events with Jack Posobiec.
This is Libby Emmons for Human Events Daily and for Jack Posobiec.
I'm I have a great guest up for you now.
Amy Eileen Hamm is a Canadian nurse and mother in Vancouver, British Columbia.
She's the founder of the group Canadian Women's Sex-Based Rights.
She's written for the Postmillennial and she got in trouble with the College of Nurses and Midwives for holding the belief That biological sex is real.
That men cannot become women.
And that women are entitled to sex-degraded spaces in washrooms, rape crisis centers, homeless shelters, and anywhere else women are vulnerable and at risk from male violence.
This week in her disciplinary hearing, she actually had to testify that women don't have penises.
She had to say that out loud in a court before a judge, and the craziest part about that is that the judge, the cross-examining attorney, and the College of Nurses and Midwives don't agree with her!
In short, Amy does not believe that trans women are women.
And because of this, she may lose her ability to practice nursing.
Hi Amy, thank you so much for joining us today.
I really appreciate it.
Hi Libby, thank you so much for having me.
So this is basically the craziest thing that I've heard about in some time.
You're a nurse.
You understand the human body.
You understand anatomy intimately.
You're very familiar with how bodies work.
That's your entire job.
You're a woman.
You're a mom.
You know what women's bodies are.
And here you are facing a disciplinary hearing from your professional body in British Columbia as to the reality of biological sex.
How did this all start?
So, and I mean, first I would just say, even the fact that I know that men aren't women, you don't need a nursing education to know that.
It's very clear reality to everyone up until, you know, 10 years ago.
But the way that this started was around 2016, 2017, I started to talk about gender ideology and write about it.
And I got a lot of public criticism in Vancouver, which is very woke.
And it wasn't until 2020 that I co-sponsored an iHeart JK Rowling billboard.
And it really caused a stir and some people complained both to my employer and to my regulator, the BC College of Nurses and Midwives, saying that I, because I put up this billboard that said iHeart JK Rowling, I'm transphobic, I'm an idiotic.
A danger to trans or gender diverse patients and I should not be able to have a nursing license.
And these were not people that you knew that complained about you.
These were just random people.
Yeah, one person identified themselves in the complaint and is someone I've never met, never worked with, never treated as a patient, never heard of.
The other person was granted anonymity and Still has that to this day because apparently they are afraid of me.
Um, so I, in essence, I have had no chance of facing my accuser, which has, you know, at this point, this legal process has been happening for more than three years.
And during this whole time, you have been forced to defend yourself against the British Columbia College of Nurses and Midwives.
You've had to retain a defense attorney to state your case.
You've had to bring in witnesses to discuss this matter.
And you're not actually the only Canadian who's been facing this.
We saw recently in Toronto, Jordan Peterson, a psychologist there, And someone who is now with the Daily Wire and very outspoken.
He was censured, essentially, by his professional body and is being forced to be re-educated if he wants to keep his license.
And all of this, again, was with anonymous complainers who said that his tweets, his social media posts, made them feel bad or something like that.
And so they took it up with his professional body.
One thing that Jordan Peterson has been very outspoken about, of course, is compelled speech.
And that certainly came up in your hearing this week.
At one point, the attorney who was essentially prosecuting you, who was cross-defending you, cross-examining you, was trying to get you to use the woke terminology about males who identify as transgender.
Can you tell us a little bit about how that went down?
I thought that was fascinating.
And your refusal also was great.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So that's right.
During the, while I was being cross-examined by the BC College of Nurses and Midwives lawyer, Barbara Finley, she halted me at one point when I used the term trans-identified male, which I had been using throughout my testimony and sort of threw a fit and said, I shouldn't be allowed to say trans-identified male.
It's misgendering.
The correct term is trans woman.
And she wanted the panel and she wanted me to be told by the panel that I had to use that language.
So then my lawyer made a response to that, essentially talking about compelled speech and the fact that it's not discriminatory to refer to males who Believe or want to believe that they're females as trans identified males.
So then the panel stood down, I think for 15 minutes or so, and they came back and thankfully they, they ruled that I didn't have to use that language, but they strongly encouraged me to use it so that I, I essentially wouldn't hurt the feelings of trans identified males.
And as you said, I just continued.
To use that language, trans-identified males or males throughout the hearing, because it's reality-based and the least confusing way to refer to the people I'm talking about who are males invading women's spaces.
And this is, of course, despite the fact that there were no trans-identified males there.
Correct.
So they wanted you to change your language and capitulate your position in order to appease the feelings of people who were not there and had absolutely nothing to do with your case at all.
Exactly.
And the lawyers cited the BC Human Rights Code from my province, which protects gender identity, but She said that I was being discriminatory.
However, the Human Rights Code applies to people who are getting services at a business or are employed.
So essentially, there's, as you said, there's nobody there that I could be discriminating against.
And I mean, arguably, it's also insane to say that it's discrimination to call a male a male.
This is also from an attorney, Barbara Findley, who you mentioned, who demands that her name be spelled in lowercase because this is how she's fighting oppression or something?
That's her saying?
It's unclear how she's fighting oppression, but apparently not using any capital letters is You know, it's something about white supremacy, colonialism, and what she's doing to fight all of these things.
Capital letters are white supremacist, I think.
I think it's the whole thing.
Capital letters are probably also transphobic.
At one point she said, part of your reason for wanting, and you've been very clear about your perspective, Part of your reason for wanting to exclude trans women from women's shelters is that cis women, which she has no problem using a term that, you know, probably many there also find offensive, cis women might be triggered by having a woman who has a penis in that space.
And you replied, and this is something that I actually, I, you're my hero for this, you said, women do not have penises.
And again, I think that rape shelters should be segregated on the basis of sex.
And later you tweeted about this.
You said, did I really have to testify under oath that women do not have penises?
Your attorney was a woman.
The judge was a woman.
Ms.
Findley, presumably, despite the lowercase letters, is also a woman.
Yeah.
Do you have any doubt that they are ignorant of the fact that women don't have penises?
What is really going on here?
Yeah, I mean, everybody knows who is male and who is female.
They're participating in a fiction.
They're captured by a crazy ideology that is very harmful to women and children.
And, you know, I sort of laugh about it as we're talking about it now, but when it's happening and when you're actually under oath and having to state such a basic Reality, it honestly feels abusive.
And I've tweeted about that, too.
It's very abusive to haul a woman through years and years of legal proceedings and to make me say things like lesbians don't have penises.
Males identifying as lesbians are heterosexual men.
And it's insanity.
Everybody knows this.
And it's such a farce to have to be stating this on the record.
Yeah, this is pretty much one of the most clown world things that I've ever seen happen.
It's not peculiar, however, in Canada for this kind of thing to keep going on and we will be back in just a minute or two to talk more to Amy about this case and about the madness of what's going on with gender in Canada.
I'm always listening to Human Events with Jack Posobiec.
This is Libby Emmons with Human Events Daily and for Jack Posobiec, I'm back today on this Friday with Amy Eileen Hamm, a nurse out of British Columbia who is facing a disciplinary hearing.
It's been going on for years over the fact that she does not believe men are women and believes fully that women have the right to sex segregated spaces where they will not be at risk of being violated by men, such as in washrooms, Shelters specifically rape crisis shelters and places like this where in Canada if you are a man and you say you're a woman you have access to any of these spaces.
This has been going on in Canada Amy for quite a while now we've seen it in Not just in the rape crisis centers, homeless shelters.
We've seen that.
We've seen women feeling so unsafe with men in homeless shelters that they have had to leave themselves and they've been told that they are transphobic for not wanting to share Rooms with men in these spaces.
And this is something, as we've said, this has been going on in Canada for quite some time.
You have a man leading the country, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, who probably claims to be a feminist, yet what he's doing across the board is putting women at risk.
There's been a lot of pushback against his policies to allow men into women's prisons.
We've seen that.
A lot of protests with regard to that.
Doesn't seem like it's going to be changing anytime soon.
And you were just telling me during the break about Bill C-4, which really seeks to criminalize health care providers that don't automatically affirm gender.
Can you tell us about that and the impact on nursing and on medicine?
Sure.
So Bill C-4 is called an anti-conversion therapy bill, and it's not anti-conversion therapy at all, however.
It does ban gay conversion therapy, which is really not something that happens in Canada anymore.
But it also talks about banning conversion therapy on the basis of gender identity.
And it's in the criminal code.
It's so healthcare practitioners who don't immediately affirm the stated gender of any patient.
It could be a two year old saying that they identify as the opposite sex.
If you, what are, if you're a psychologist, psychiatrist, nurse, anyone, if you don't immediately affirm that under the criminal code of Canada, you could be subject to imprisonment.
So you can imagine that that would have an enormous chilling effect on any sort of healthcare practitioner that would want to explore mental health issues or see what's driving Any patient or any child to feel uncomfortable in their body and they're essentially being forced by the government to just immediately say, OK, yes, you're trans.
Let's let's set you on this medical pathway.
And it really changes the entire definition of conversion therapy, doesn't it?
Because conversion therapy, the concept of conversion therapy, used to mean if you have a teenager, for example, who says that she's a lesbian or a young man who says that he's gay, the rule was you can't force them to try and have a different sexual orientation.
That would be considered conversion therapy.
But this is really a much different situation.
This says that if you don't Um, affirm a conversion, then that is conversion therapy, right?
I mean, it's very confusing.
Can you break that down?
It's, it doesn't make sense because as you said, on the one hand, if you try to change someone's sexual orientation, you can see how that is conversion therapy.
However, there's an irony because there are places in the world and even some pockets in the United States where People and parents specifically will use, they will trans their gay children because essentially they would rather have a trans child than a gay child.
Yeah, this happened with the founder of Mermaids in the UK, which is a charity that supports supposedly LGBTQ, but really it's just about the T. The founder, Susie Green, spoke at length in a TED Talk about how her husband did not want a gay son, so they transitioned their son, going as far as to take him to Thailand for vaginoplasty surgery when he was only 16.
And eventually that TED Talk was pulled from YouTube.
You can't, I mean, we recorded it at the Post Millennial and put it up on our Rumble channel because we thought this kind of thing should be preserved, but you can't really find it out there.
They just took it down.
They don't want us to know that that's really what's going on.
Of course, and it's the same thing in Iran where homosexuality is illegal, that you see the highest rate of transgender identified males in the world because it's safer for them to be transgender than it is for them to be homosexual.
And just with about a minute or so left, I wanted to talk about this gender unicorn.
I know that you're familiar with the gender unicorn.
We've talked about it before.
And this is essentially this graphic.
Do we have the graphic up?
And you've talked about this at your trial as well, that you are not a mind-body dualist.
I agree with you on this one, you know.
This basically says that gender is some sort of soul that is entirely separate from the body.
Yeah.
A lot of this is very harmful and it comes to kids in Canada.
With just a minute left, can you tell us the harms of this gender unicorn and its implementation in schools?
I mean, it's clearly extremely confusing to children who are just Learning about the differences between male and female when they're younger to now be told that your biological reality is less important than a feeling you might have in your head about gender and that is always to supersede your gender and that you can change your sex based on how you feel.
I frankly think that it's abusive towards children and this is the sort of thing that you see taught in schools to children, you know, right from From kindergarten.
And it's just, it infuriates me.
And I have children going to public school, and I have to be very vigilant to see what they're hearing, because there are people that are in this gender cult, and they control all of the institutions in Canada.
They're indoctrinating children, and it's, yeah, it's frightening, to be honest.
It's very frightening.
Yeah, I'm so terrified by this and I'm so glad that you are speaking out and you're literally putting everything on the line to do that.
Thank you so much, Amy, for joining us.
I really appreciate what you've had to say today and we're definitely going to be following the rest of this hearing with interest.
Thank you.
Thank you so much for having me, Louise.
Thank you.
And I just wanted to give a thank you to Jack Stobick for handing over the reins of his Human Events Daily to me for the past two days and to the other guest hosts this week.
Thank you so much.
It's been really a lot of fun and we'll be glad to see you coming back next week.
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