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July 3, 2017 - Praying Medic

01:41:31

085 Healing the Broken Soul - Richard Mull

Richard Mull specializes in emotional healing and deliverance. Listen in as we discuss healing the broken soul. Resources Operation Lightforce The Jesus Training Man

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	- Hi, I'd like to welcome you to our show.
	I'm your host, Prang Medic.
	We're talking about life as a child of God and all things related to His Kingdom.
	Thanks for joining us.
	If you're a new listener to the show, you can find articles and books and other resources on my website www.prangmedic.com.
	Now let's jump into this week's show.
	My guest on today's show is my friend Richard Malth from Operation Light Force.
	Richard's ministry specializes in inner healing and deliverance.
	Richard!
	How are you?
	Hey, I'm doing good, man.
	How you doing?
	Doing excellent.
	I see your beautiful face.
	Yeah, Denise did some Photoshop work on that because I had to start putting my face out there a little bit more.
	Yeah.
	I jokingly said that to a graphics guy who's just out of sight.
	And I said, you can make me look better, can't you?
	And he goes, yeah, yeah, yeah.
	My teeth, man, they were like glistening, shining.
	If it had been a full shot, man, I would be probably looking like Arnold Schwarzenegger.
	Who knows?
	Denise makes everything I do look good.
	I love being married to a Photoshop master.
	She is so good at it.
	There was another guy that we were ministering to recently who, his whole business is business headshots.
	And I was like, there's that niche in business?
	And he goes, oh yeah.
	He goes, I make people look good.
	And I was like, okay, you know.
	Everybody has their little talent that they bring to the table, don't they?
	Yeah.
	His parents were the founders of Krispy Kreme Donuts.
	Have you heard of Krispy Kreme Donuts?
	Oh, yes.
	I know all about Krispy Kreme.
	So I was like, man, you gotta hook us up.
	Now that I'm eating healthy.
	Yeah, I'm trying to get into a healthier lifestyle.
	I don't go to donut shops really much anymore.
	When I was working on the ambulance, we used to go, you know, from time to time, but... Just like police, huh?
	Yeah, when you work in, whether it's fire, EMS, or law enforcement, junk food tends to be a big part of your diet, unless you're really disciplined about it.
	Yeah.
	So I'm really glad I finally got to talk to you after all of our problems.
	Yeah.
	But I really like Uber Conference.
	I did a call with Steve Bremner and a couple other guys, gosh, a week or two ago.
	And I was really impressed.
	They all had really good quality microphones and I had a really crappy microphone.
	And they sounded great and I sounded terrible.
	So I went a couple of days ago and ordered a new microphone from Amazon.
	I got so many microphones.
	I got Sennheisers and Um, Shure's and stuff like that.
	We got little sound systems and different things, but a lot of times I just operate, like right now I'm operating right off my Mac and, um, as long as that's good, I, yeah, it's usually just really good quality.
	So.
	Yeah, that works for me.
	So, I have some questions for you.
	I primarily was hoping to talk today about ministry to the broken soul, your experiences with that, but how did you get, for people who don't know much about you, how did you get started in ministry?
	Um, I was growing up in middle-class family, always went to good churches.
	You know, it was usually like the biggest church in town, the most recognized church in town, you know, which is often Baptist.
	Um, I mean, I, I had the typical goals, you know, nice big house, two expensive cars, two points, um, you know, golden retriever, you know, la la la.
	But I fell in love with the Lord, and that was the most important thing to me.
	I was reading Leonard Ravenhill when I was in high school, and A.W.
	Tozer, and stuff like that.
	But still, pretty much trying to head in the same direction as everybody else.
	And people began to say, Richard, you're called into the ministry.
	And I would be like, What?
	No.
	For a couple reasons, I was sure that wasn't true, because I didn't like talking in front of people, and the main things that I thought of as being in ministry weren't things that I felt comfortable doing.
	But I loved telling people about Jesus.
	I would witness to people.
	And I just spent time with the Lord, so people began to see something and began to say it.
	It was around my junior, senior year that I was like, I know God's calling me into the ministry.
	But, you know, I always thought that was going to be something more traditional.
	And, you know, I was going to Bible college.
	I heard about being a missionary.
	I thought that's where I'd spend my life because the missionaries that I met were mostly telling people about Jesus and spending time, you know, reaching out to the lost and things like that.
	But not living in a $250,000 house with two and a half kids and two cars.
	Right.
	And my parents said, there's no way God could call you into the ministry, because your taste is rich.
	And I was like, well, maybe he can give me both.
	But, you know, it was more about serving the Lord than about all that stuff over time.
	So how did you get interested, and how did you get activated in deliverance and inner healing?
	I began in a very interesting way.
	I was in a large, seeker-sensitive church.
	We were one of the fastest-growing churches in the Southeast at the time, ahead of the curve way before people knew much about all that stuff.
	We were a cell-based, seeker-sensitive Baptist church when nobody had ever put those same words in a sentence, I think.
	And I was helping to write the discipleship curriculum, and we were copying Willow Creek and Saddleback and, you know, doing what everybody else were doing, the fast-growing churches in the nation.
	We were just copying all that.
	And I began to ask a question.
	And the question was, what does a disciple look like in the Bible?
	What did they mean by making disciples in the Bible?
	That is a very dangerous question.
	Yeah!
	Who's better to look at as the model than Jesus?
	And it was almost as if I read the Bible for the first time.
	And honestly, I'd read through the Bible many times already.
	It was something I did every year, sometimes several times in a year.
	But it was like I read it for the first time because I saw almost instantly Jesus taught 12 ordinary guys to cast out evil spirits, to heal the sick, and to preach the kingdom of God.
	To be honest, I wanted to close my bio, put it away, and forget what I was seeing because... Go and sell Krispy Kreme donuts and maybe one day have your own franchise.
	Because that stuff sounds impossible!
	The implications of it sound... I knew, like right off the bat, I'm going, this would cost me my reputation.
	There's not a church or people that I know of that would be open to this.
	Now, you were in a Baptist church.
	Did you know people who operated in the Miraculous?
	I did not know anyone.
	Well, I had spent a year, not even a full year, I'd really only spent 10 weeks at Last Days Ministries.
	Keith Green had founded it.
	It was kind of a YWAM base at the point that I went there.
	So that was the closest I had gotten.
	Y-whammer type people and hearing testimonials of the supernatural.
	And my heart was just set on fire for that.
	That's the type of experience that I wanted.
	In seminary, before this prayer, I had traveled with Ralph Naber to Singapore, Hong Kong, Malaysia, and we were studying world-class cell-based churches.
	And while we were there in Singapore and in some of these other countries, We saw churches that look identical to what I ended up on staff at here.
	They were cell-based, they were large, fast-growing, making an impact.
	The difference was in every small group we went to, people were telling testimonies of people being healed.
	of leading people to Christ, visiting people in the hospital, and these were just business people, housewives, rich people.
	They were casting demons out of people.
	Now, this was in the Far East.
	This is in Singapore.
	Yep.
	And so our professor, Ralph Nabors, said, this is going to mess you up for church as you know it.
	And he was right.
	You know, I went from there back to big church here in the U.S.
	and never totally forgot what I saw there.
	I was like, God, why isn't it that this type of Christianity can happen in America?
	So when, what timeframe was that?
	This was around the late 90s.
	The early 90s is when I went to Singapore, Hong Kong, Malaysia.
	That was when I finished up my graduate degree.
	So late 90s, you're back stateside, and the seed that was planted is starting to germinate and sprout a little bit, and you're like, ooh, man.
	A couple years later is when I actually got saved.
	I left the church that I had been on staff at, and I was It was one of the largest youth ministries in the area.
	There was a lot of fruit, but I knew the Lord was speaking.
	I ended up spending the next three years with no position, no title.
	My wife didn't have a job.
	My resume could have gotten me in almost any church, but I knew a choice between the kingdom of God And continuing with the pathways that I'd been on.
	The Kingdom versus Christianity.
	Yeah, I spent every day on my face with the Bible open, just seeking God and saying, I want the type of Christianity that I see in the Bible.
	And I did some extended fasting.
	And for about a six-month period of time, I began to get invitations leading worship or speaking.
	And I didn't have a flyer out.
	I wasn't telling anybody I did anything.
	But everywhere for six months that I led worship or spoke, somebody would manifest demons.
	Well, I was asking God to do this kind of stuff.
	I just didn't mean at my meetings.
	I hate it when he does that.
	Zero training, never been around.
	I had heard some testimonies from people over the years, but never had anybody teach me anything about this.
	I was learning to hear God's voice, but I doubted it.
	I was like, is this God or is this me?
	Is this God or is this me?
	Well, in the moment when someone's manifesting demons in front of you, I was like, okay God, I'm going to do what I believe you're telling me to do.
	Even if I'm making it all up, I'm going to do what I believe you're telling me to do.
	And it would work, but I'd still wonder.
	Am I helping that person?
	Like, what just happened?
	Well, unless you have no training, you don't know what to expect.
	You don't have the training manual, you don't have the first do this, then do that, and if you see this, then do the next thing.
	You're just kind of winging it, and you're just really learning to hear God's voice.
	So you're doubting even what you think you're hearing.
	Maybe it's just you, maybe it's God, maybe it's not.
	You know, you're in a pretty difficult situation.
	And this is a situation a lot of people are in right now.
	Yeah, so many people in the body of Christ don't know how to hear God's voice.
	I created a study Bible called God Speaks, and I've written, I've taught on the subject.
	But I do, when I speak somewhere, and it doesn't matter what denomination it is, I do a survey.
	How many of you are not sure that you've ever heard God speak?
	Without fail, it's over 75%.
	Now, the only exceptions that I've found to that is When I did a conference with Roberts Lee Airden, and you know, it's the, it's all people that have left their nation to come to this conference to hear the Bill Johnsons and all people like that.
	It was about, about 50% raising hand.
	They weren't sure they'd ever heard God.
	And I was like, that's the highest percentage.
	That's the first question that I asked, that I had ever seen.
	And then the next question I asked is, all right, how many of you would say, I know I've heard God, but it's only been a handful of times?
	Usually when I ask that question, we are down to, at the most, 10-15%.
	The next question is, how many of you go, I have heard God, And I've heard it many times, but it's not a regular daily experience.
	By this time, I'm at 90% of the congregation have raised their hand, usually closer to 95 or 99%.
	And then the last question, how many of you go, I hear God on an almost daily basis?
	And it's anything from 1% to a small percentage.
	There's one church where the pastor had done a great job at equipping their people, and most, a high percentage of the, and I was shocked because It was not a church I would have expected it, but they were like 70% of the people said, I hear God on a regular basis.
	I was like, this blows me away.
	What am I doing here to teach?
	You know, and yet they felt like they learned a lot at the same time.
	But yeah, so it's sad.
	I was a pastor and I had never had a class, seven years of theological training, never had a class on how to hear God's voice, never a Sunday school class, never a sermon in my whole life.
	Yep.
	I have a friend who is a, well, she's a theologian.
	She teaches at Biola University, and she's got, I think, a Master's and possibly a PhD in Divinity, and all of her training has never had any classes on the supernatural.
	Hearing God's voice, no classes on deliverance, none of that.
	Did Biola at one time have a lot of the Spirit filled as a part of it?
	I don't know that much about it.
	I ran into her because she was healed of bipolar, and I interviewed her I think a year or two ago, and she just was amazed at the revelation that demons are real, and you can hear God's voice, and none of this stuff is taught in seminary or Bible college, in most of them anyway.
	Which is why schools of supernatural ministry are popping up all over the place, because people are starting to figure out, you know, maybe it's a good idea to teach people how to hear God's voice.
	Maybe.
	Yeah.
	There's a lot of reluctance in the Church when it comes to the subject of deliverance and emotional healing.
	Do you think that is due to fear and misunderstanding about the demonic?
	Or is it fear of the supernatural?
	Is it fear of being wrong?
	What do you think it is that is kind of the stumbling stone for a lot of people?
	I actually believe a lot of times it's fear of what we don't know about.
	It's fear of the unknown.
	There's so much misinformation.
	I hear people talk about it and they have no experience.
	And rather than look at the Bible and go, if it's in the Bible, it's got to be true.
	They talk about some story they heard of somebody trying to cast out demons and beating people up.
	It's like you get the weirdest stuff.
	But yeah, one pastor used to say, what you're not up on, you're down on.
	It's the fact that we don't have any teaching.
	To think that you're a pastor and you've got all this training and have none of that, then someone else comes along and starts talking about something like that.
	You're the one that's supposed to have all the answers, at least in your head.
	And so, if you've not been trained in it, then you're going to be afraid of it.
	There's not a good reason to be afraid, The more you know, the less fear you have, but I think that is one of the biggest things that keeps people from it.
	That is very true.
	I've noticed in my own walk, as I've become more kind of immersed in the supernatural, the fears that I had have pretty much gone away, because you gain those life experiences, you see some victory, you see some cool things happen, you know that God is partnering with you, and when you see those things happen, the fear factor just kind of fades into the background, and you're not afraid of those things anymore after a while.
	One other fear that I think is massive is we actually fear the devil, which is really, really bad theology.
	But it's based upon experience, because a lot of times when you are not doing anything that's a threat to the enemy, then the enemy leaves you alone.
	And so there is some semblance of reality.
	I know for myself, the whole beginning of this was the first time I did an extended fast.
	I was beginning to ask God to teach me these things.
	I was doing an extended fast, and it was like all hell broke loose in my home.
	Never before had my wife ever seen something in my home.
	My kid woke up in the middle of the night two nights in a row, saw a monster in his room, and I didn't know the voice of God well at the time.
	Now that I know the Lord's voice, I know it was actually the Spirit of God speaking to me, but it was like I knew, and so it was God speaking to me.
	Usually when I tell the story, I don't say, God told me, because at that time I didn't know how to hear God's voice, but the Lord told me, Richard, if you back up, The enemy will quiet down, but that doesn't mean he's gonna leave.
	Right, and that's what I've noticed, and I've heard that from a lot of people.
	I get, you know, emails all the time and questions from people.
	They start reading my book on hearing God's voice, or seeing in the Spirit, or healing, and they start trying to step out in the supernatural.
	They're trying to operate In authority.
	They're trying to release power.
	And they're trying to get demons out.
	And then their life starts going sideways.
	They're like, wait a minute.
	I'm having these demons attack me at night.
	I'm having all these problems.
	Everything seems to be coming against me.
	What's going on?
	I'm like, well, you are now engaged in the battle.
	And once you put on the armor and start doing a little bit of warfare, the enemy is going to try to intimidate you, back you down, and let you know you're in for a battle.
	But what I found, personally, is there's that season in the beginning, usually for most people, where there's intense warfare.
	And if you get through that, the warfare seems to, I think, calm down a little bit.
	It's not quite as intense.
	At least, that's what I've noticed.
	I think we find the keys to winning in the warfare.
	Like, right now, I know some of the stuff that God has us doing.
	The bullseye's just bigger, and the attack has been even more intense.
	But when I know, like, there's times the Lord wakes me up and says, you know, stuff that might scare other people.
	I won't even mention it.
	But the enemy's coming after you.
	No, that's okay.
	I mean, I have a friend, Steve Harmon.
	I don't know if you know Steve.
	Yeah.
	Steve does a lot of work with people who are, you know, victims of satanic ritual abuse.
	Yeah.
	And he's doing it all the time.
	And he gets woke up in the middle of the night by an angel who says, uh, they're coming after you.
	Get up and move.
	Get out of the house.
	So it's not like, if you're doing this, you know, high level ministry, it's not like the attacks go away completely, but you do learn to discern that, you know, how the Lord is leading you and kind of giving you heads up on how to avert the attack that's coming.
	I wake up and I just begin to pray, and I pray in the spirit, and I'm going, we're gonna do more damage to the kingdom of darkness than you can do to me.
	Because greater is he that is in me than he that's in the world.
	Like, we don't have to be afraid.
	One time I was laying on the floor, I had intercessors, and I had told them that I'd found out that Satanists and Wiccans were coming against us in our ministry.
	I'm laying on the floor, and everybody's like, oh my gosh, this is serious.
	We're praying.
	And the Lord spoke to me.
	He said, what are you doing on the floor, Richard?
	And I was like, well, God, we got Satanists and Wiccans coming against us.
	They're praying against us.
	I think they're fasting.
	And the Lord's like, What are you doing on the floor?
	And I was like, didn't you hear me?
	And it was like, Austin, I was like, well, that's stupid.
	Of course he heard me.
	What am I doing on the floor?
	What am I doing on the floor?
	I just got up and I began to war.
	The attacks seemed to stop instantly.
	And it was like, wow.
	Too often, the way we do warfare is hiding behind a chair and hoping the devil can't find us, you know?
	Rather than going, man, I got weapons!
	Well, what the enemy's trying to do is back you down and intimidate you and cause you to be afraid.
	And if you are not afraid, if you don't back down, if you come back at the enemy in boldness, that is our warfare.
	Our warfare in Ephesians 6 is to stand.
	The enemy's coming at you, spiritual forces of wickedness in high places.
	What do you do?
	Stand.
	Stand against the evil they.
	You don't have to, like, run around and scream and holler.
	You just need to stand against the attack.
	Yep.
	In your ministry, you use the term broken soul and ministering to the broken soul.
	Can you explain a little bit about what that's all about?
	Yeah, and James actually coined a word that they didn't find in the Greek before he used it, and it's dipsouke.
	It's translated most of the time double-minded.
	But it's actually double-souled.
	And it talks about the double-souled person is unstable in all his or her ways.
	I think the reason it was not translated double-souled is because people couldn't wrap their heads around someone having two souls, you know?
	You want to save souls, and my soul is saved and it's going to heaven.
	And so it made it difficult to translate it double-souled.
	But what the enemy's understood for a long time is that you can fracture someone's psyche.
	Satanists have known it and do it intentionally.
	Our military has understood it, done it intentionally.
	I like to lay a biblical foundation for stuff, and it talks about our heart being broken.
	It talks about loving the Lord your God with all of your heart, your soul, your mind, and your strength.
	God binds up the brokenhearted, and A lot of the concept behind this type of ministry and this reality has been there in the Word of God for a long time, and the realization and the need for it has become more and more apparent.
	I used to think that anybody that had what they would term multiple personality disorder, it's more recently become called disassociative identity disorder.
	That was all demons, and began to understand that it's not all demons, that there's often broken parts of someone's soul, and you can actually talk to those different parts.
	Now, the interesting thing is that it's been very apparent in people who've been diagnosed with, you know, bipolar, schizophrenia, PTSD, With multiple personality disorder, DID, all those different types of things.
	And as we began to minister those broken parts of the soul, what we came to understand is that many people have that.
	In fact, you connected with me because you heard from Jesse Berkey, his testimony.
	And the interesting thing was, he was just asking me what we were doing.
	And I began to describe some of it to him.
	And all of a sudden we were there in a restaurant.
	And he's going, oh my goodness, there's something going on inside of me.
	And he goes, it's like there's a part of me that wants to say something right now.
	And I said, well, let's not do it right here in the restaurant.
	And we scheduled an appointment.
	I have that happen on a regular basis.
	And he would have, I would have not put Jesse in the category of someone who needs this kind of ministry.
	Man is walking with God, you know, God's used him powerfully.
	And all I'm doing is telling him testimonies and explaining some of the You know, facets of this type of ministry.
	And all of a sudden, it begins to happen.
	And I've had that happen many times.
	And all of a sudden, the next thing you know, we're in ministry on the spot with people that I just was trying to explain something to them.
	So it is not just people that have the more obvious breaks.
	I sat and received ministry, not because I had any thought that I needed this kind of ministry, but because in our ministry, I don't want anybody ministering with me who's not willing to receive ministry.
	So I was like, before I start teaching this to my team, I want to go through this kind of ministry and just see if there's something there.
	And sure enough, there were broken parts of my soul that Could be talked to.
	And I had never been aware of hearing, you know, some people are very much aware.
	They're like, I feel like there's two of me.
	People are like, I feel like there's multiple personalities.
	People describe it in different ways.
	I had nothing like that that I was aware of.
	They were pretty innocuous.
	There was nothing major.
	I didn't grow up with any kind of childhood traumas to speak of, but it was beautiful receiving ministry anyways.
	That's cool.
	I think I have a testimony that's kind of similar to yours.
	I didn't have a terribly traumatic childhood, although as a paramedic I've seen a lot of pretty devastating stuff that I'm pretty sure I need some emotional healing from.
	I've seen a lot of dead bodies and tortured people and some pretty gruesome things, but It was interesting how I came to the awareness that I had some parts that needed healing.
	The Lord actually gave me a dream.
	And in the dream, I saw two versions of me.
	One was an outgoing, gregarious person who liked hanging out with people.
	And the other version of me was hiding in a cave and was a recluse.
	And they met.
	The outgoing one went into the cave and was talking to the recluse version of me and was trying to coax him to come out of the cave.
	And this dream was, oh gosh, a couple years ago.
	And it was right about the time I was starting to learn more about emotional healing, and I thought, uh-oh, hmm, something's going on here!
	So I found out, doing the ministry with a friend of mine, that I had an altar that needed To be healed and integrated.
	And that was an interesting process.
	But, you know, the terms that we use, altars, parts, fragments, the core, can you talk a little bit about what those terms mean for the person who doesn't really know much about them?
	Yeah, you know, it's interesting words and terms, because a lot of times for me, I want to find biblical foundation for everything.
	Even us, we're grappling with, what do we call some of these realities and some of these things?
	So, what the word alters means is, it's another part of who we are.
	As we're ministering to someone, it is them.
	But in a childhood trauma, what takes place is that a little child, and there are breaks For so many different reasons.
	I'm going to use two different examples if that's okay.
	One is a child is raped.
	They got to go to school the next day.
	And so what happens is that part of their soul holds that memory and fractures and they go to school and act like nothing ever happened.
	And they're not acting.
	It is like it was so traumatizing that they aren't able, as a child, to process that.
	And it's like, it's God's grace that allows that, I believe, so that the child doesn't live 24-7.
	There are children that go through this on a daily basis.
	Now, the interesting thing is, I've seen parts that they broke.
	There was one dear friend of ours, and got ministry, and there was a woman And all of a sudden, we were talking to a five-year-old boy.
	And I was like, okay, this is kind of strange.
	Why does this part have a boy's name?
	Because usually girls' parts have girls' names, guys' parts.
	And I'm thinking there's going to be something really weird sexual going on.
	No.
	When she was five years old, mom had had it with all the kids in the house and said, you guys go outside in the backyard.
	I am locking this door.
	You can't come back in.
	Play with your friends.
	And in that moment, she was like, I'm locked out of my house.
	It was like a five-year-old's perspective on what just happened.
	And I can't imagine how many moms have done the same thing.
	You know, I've had enough.
	You guys go out there and play.
	She was like, I was in the backyard with all my friends, but I felt this abject abandonment in the moment.
	And then she said to herself, the boys get to play with sticks and climb trees.
	I want to be a boy.
	And I was like, that explains why she had a boy's name.
	This part broke one day when she was like, I'm totally rejected from my mom.
	And I've got to play out here with my friends.
	And it's a bunch of boys and they get to do these things that I don't get to do.
	So I'm going to be a boy.
	It's very interesting as you start talking to these parts that this grown woman, a friend of mine lives in a nice part of the city.
	One time I asked a question or said something that she didn't like a little bit.
	And because she's five years old, she's reacting to things as an adult.
	She goes, I just want to come over there and punch you.
	And it was just like, okay.
	And then, because you're going through this kind of ministry, you still can respond.
	All of a sudden, she's like, Richard, you know that's not me.
	I would never say that.
	I don't want to hit you.
	I said, I know, I know.
	And the next thing we know, we're talking to this five-year-old boy.
	But it all began to make sense.
	But trauma can look so different.
	We deal a lot with pretty heavy brokenness.
	Another dear friend of ours, she had had her mom die, and then her brother died within eight months.
	There were all kinds of parts that fractured, all different, and most of them had fear base.
	All of her physical illnesses were fear based.
	God has healed almost every one of her physical illnesses.
	She had multiple chemical sensitivity, had to wear a mask, couldn't go into the bathroom at work, had to go somewhere else to a bathroom because of the soaps that they used, all kinds of stuff.
	None of that, the asthma, the sinus problems, all of that's healed as we've dealt with the fear base.
	But it was a whole bunch of different parts.
	Hang on, hang on.
	You are on a roll, and I have some things I want to talk about.
	I talk to people who operate in emotional healing and physical healing, and one of the things that I've been kind of learning and hearing from other people is that if you have difficulty getting somebody healed of what seems to be a physical condition, like autoimmune or environmental sensitivity or illness, things of that nature, it seems like there's almost always an emotional trauma
	That needs to be healed first, because typical exercising authority, releasing power just doesn't work on those people.
	If you go in and find out where the emotional trauma is at, get the parts of the soul healed.
	I'm hearing from people, they have much better success getting those people healed after they do the emotional healing.
	Yeah.
	The sad thing is many times they've been in churches, and if they're in a faith church, it's that they need more faith.
	And they've been claiming it and praying for it.
	Everybody's praying for the symptoms, and no one ever looks at the possibility of there even being a root.
	And so you're hitting the nail on the head.
	It's all intertwined.
	Faith is a huge key.
	It's a very important key.
	It's not the only key.
	You make a reference to the tools, and that's one of my favorite analogies is the tool belt.
	God has given us a lot of tools for ministry.
	He has given us authority, and we can exercise authority over demons.
	He's given us power.
	We can release power to work miracles.
	He's given us emotional healing.
	We can get Jesus into this dynamic where He heals the broken parts of the soul.
	He has given us His presence.
	When we release God's presence comes in, He can do miracles in us and not even pray or release power or authority.
	He's given us words of knowledge.
	He's given us things of that nature.
	What I've found is, if you're not familiar with all the tools, you'll have a very difficult time getting a lot of people healed.
	Because if your only tool is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
	And if you're just told it's all about faith, just gotta have more faith, well, that doesn't give people a lot of hope for getting healed if they just, well, I have faith, but, you know, it's not getting healed!
	Yep, absolutely.
	I find that whenever I get to add a new key, all of a sudden, certain things where we had run into roadblocks, now we begin to see.
	I want to call up everybody that used to get ministry and go, I have a new key, and I know this.
	For years, I actually resisted what we call broken soul ministry today, because The people that I found that were doing it couldn't give me some answers that were important to me.
	One is, I never felt like they gave a good biblical foundation for it.
	The other thing is, I felt like when I would talk to them, they would talk like they were authorities, but they were talking about, we've been working with this person 15 years, and we're almost to the point of breakthrough.
	And I'm going, I know the Lord's bigger than that.
	And these were some decent sized ministries and supposed experts in this field.
	And I was like, God, I'm willing to work with someone as long as it takes.
	But if they don't have fruit yet, then I don't want to copy.
	What they're doing.
	Exactly.
	It took a while before I found people that I felt were having the kind of fruit that I would expect and, you know, were applying these principles in a way that was really effective and healthy.
	Yeah, I'm with you.
	I love to learn from people who are having good success and who are getting breakthrough in areas that no one else is.
	Like, there are some people that are really good at, you know, physical healing, and that's great.
	Nothing wrong with that.
	You can learn from those people.
	But...
	What about people who are, you know, how's your record on autoimmune?
	Or how many people have you seen healed of MS or Lou Gehrig's disease?
	Those difficult things, you know, people will run into, they'll get the 80% success rate on healing and then go, well, you know, we can't get this healed, we can't get that healed.
	Then my question is why?
	What are we missing that we can't get those conditions healed?
	When I look around, I see other people who are having good success or some success in that area and go, okay, what are you guys doing?
	Well, they have a different approach.
	They've added some different tools.
	They have a different understanding.
	God's shown them specific things, whether it's generational issues or emotional trauma.
	And you know, generational issues is a good example.
	I have like zero experience with generational healing.
	I have no revelation from God on it.
	And I've had hundreds of dreams where God has shown me different aspects of healing, but He's never spoken to me about generational issues.
	But He has spoken to a lot of my friends about it, and I have friends who have really good success with generational things.
	And then I have people like you and Steve who are really going after SRA and DID and emotional trauma.
	I like to find those people that are having success, either learn what they're doing and learn how to do it myself, or I have a resource where I can refer people to them, and I refer a lot of people out to other ministers who are having success with stuff that I'm just not having success with.
	Awesome.
	So I want to talk a little bit more about the parts, because this is such an interesting subject for me and for a lot of my listeners, people who follow my podcast.
	The emotional trauma and fragments and alters in those discussions are some of the most... I get more questions and those programs tend to get more listens and downloads than any other program because people are really hungry to learn about this.
	Now, when you're doing ministry to somebody who's got, you know, whether you call them fragments or alters or parts, I think parts is a good term because it's hard to make that distinction between, well, this is an alter and this is a fragment.
	Some people make that distinction, but I think it's kind of a gray area.
	But you seems like you generally refer to them just as parts.
	Yeah.
	When you're doing ministry to a fragmented or broken part of the soul, like you just discussed this as this fragment or this part came up and was talking like a five-year-old boy.
	Is that typically for you how this happens?
	The wounded part of the soul just comes up, takes over, starts talking, and you just have a normal discussion with them?
	Can you talk us through a little bit of that?
	It's interesting, because in my whole journey, I've been exposed to a lot of different people in ministry, and I've learned things from people, and I've learned a lot of different systems.
	But for whatever reason, the Lord has used us in ways where it has to be so Spirit-led that what I did yesterday, if the same thing happens today, And the Spirit tells me to go a different way, we go a different way.
	So even how parts manifest, it varies.
	Sometimes what happens as we begin, we do a super simple prayer.
	And again, I'm not giving anybody this for a formula to copy, but it's just kind of the gist.
	First of all, I pray for the core.
	main part of the soul would just be at peace, at rest, that they would be able to relax and not feel the need to take over, not feel the need to do anything.
	I explain all this to them even before we pray it.
	And then I pray that God would make a clear distinction between any parts that He wants to minister to and the core, so that they know this is not me, this is the part of my soul.
	And that the Lord would let them know this is safe.
	We are safe.
	Because a lot of times, different parts, they would know.
	People are going to label us like it's crazy if we talk.
	They may have been threatened by people.
	If a woman's been raped and she's been threatened, a lot of times, even if she doesn't remember, That part remembers the threat, and that's why she's not talked about those experiences.
	And sometimes the parts get threatened by demons, right?
	So that's another issue.
	So, you know, my prayer is that they would know that they are safe.
	There is no ability of the enemy to retaliate.
	Then I pray against all demonic that's been attached to any parts, that the Lord would bind it.
	chain it, that the parts could even see what the Lord does to these parts, that they could see that they are safe, that there's a distance, that the Lord has chained them and bound them.
	Because sometimes the demonic still has rights, but I just pray that they're not able to hinder the ministry in any way, not able to talk or do anything during our ministry time and afterwards.
	I'll pray for them as well.
	And the last thing we do is just say, Lord Jesus, whoever If there's a part that you want to minister to today, I pray that you would allow us to minister that part.
	And I've learned to say not just part, but any parts or part.
	Because one of the things that I have found yesterday with two people that we saw a lot of parts merged and healed.
	And it was almost like we were preaching to a crowd of parts.
	A lot of fracturing had taken place in both of their lives due to SRA-type stuff.
	And I was like, thank you God that we didn't have to talk to every one of them one-on-one.
	That is very interesting.
	That's why I can't say the word typical, because there's times that it's a part.
	that begins to speak to other parts.
	Sometimes it's the core that begins to speak to the parts. - You never really know what the dynamics can look like. - The visual was a part began to speak to the core because the core was struggling with where was Jesus when this traumatic thing took place and the part had already gotten healing.
	And okay, I remember the core, the Lord had led us to have the core talk to that part And so then the parts going, why are you having trouble believing the very same stuff that you just told me?
	And she was like, Oh my gosh, how come I can believe it for this part of my soul, but I can't believe it for me.
	And major breakthrough came.
	And I was like, there's other times that the Lord has me preaching to the parts.
	And that's because, and people may not understand this, but each part of the soul has a different belief system.
	Yep.
	They're a unique individual soul with preferences, likes, dislikes, personality, belief systems, and it's not all the same throughout the entire soul.
	And that is something that people have a little bit of a hard time with.
	Some of the parts know Jesus and like Jesus, other parts hate Jesus, and there's that dynamic to deal with.
	What we're talking about now sounds crazy the first time you begin to hear something like this.
	When you watch the ministry take place, it is beautiful.
	And when you see the fruit of transformation in someone's life, it's beautiful.
	But yeah, we talk about it on a kind of consistent basis, but I don't talk about it to my neighbors.
	I don't talk about it to many pastors that I hang out with.
	Not right off the bat, you know, I'll bait people.
	And when you can see their eyes blast over and they think you're crazy, I'm like, yeah, we can talk about all kinds of other stuff.
	Yeah, this is throwing your pearls before the swine kind of stuff, if they don't have a grid for it.
	And I don't talk to very many people about this unless they come to me and ask me.
	They're like, hey, I heard your podcast or read something, and I want more information about this.
	And then I kind of go down that road.
	But it's not something you just talk about at the dinner table with strangers.
	Yeah.
	Do most of the parts that you have encountered, do they have names and distinct identities or not?
	Is there anything that's kind of typical for you?
	It's interesting.
	Some people, every part seems to have a name already and have some level of identity.
	Other people, there's not a part that feels like it has a name.
	Some can quickly come up with a name.
	Some resent that question.
	Why do you always want a name?
	I don't know my name.
	And they'll react like that.
	And it's something we do every day.
	And I'm like, okay, how would you like for me to address you?
	I don't know.
	You know, and you're like going, well, yeah, let me just call you since you're talking about your fears.
	Is Timid one?
	Is that okay?
	No, I don't like that.
	You know, like, okay, I want to be able to address you and talk to you.
	So, you know, that's one extreme, you know, and so there's, All over the place.
	Some, the parts often call themselves by the characteristic, like, I am fear, I am loneliness, I am hidden, I am whatever.
	Right.
	I'm Mary, I'm Jane, I'm Lulu.
	No, what's amazing, amazing, this is one of the most beautiful facets, is a lot of times, let's just say a part calls itself Lulu, and I have no idea what the name Lulu means, but one of the things I'll often do is I'll Google Lulu.
	And I'm like...
	I'm making this up, but Lulu means shy.
	Well, that's what this part is.
	There's no way the person knows that.
	Isn't that interesting?
	When you encounter angels or demons and they have names, what does the name typically mean?
	It means if you look at them, you look at their area of specialization, their unique characteristics, it's a perfect description of what they are and what they do.
	Yeah.
	And then one of the facets that we do is we go, Lord, do you have a name for Lulu?
	And almost 100% of the time, the Lord has a name.
	And sometimes it's like, Sarah, and you're like going, and the Lord's been already talking to this part, and she felt shy and unimportant, and like, she doesn't matter.
	And you look up the name Sarah, and it's Princess, and you're going, And the Lord had already said something about her being his princess.
	And she doesn't know that the name Sarah means princess.
	Like, God, how does this happen?
	There's no way.
	I don't know names, but it is so significant.
	And it is, I would say, never off the mark.
	It is the name that the Lord gives.
	Nobody could have made it up.
	We don't meet with a thousand people in a Two year period of time, who all are experts on names and can come up with an amazing name.
	It just happens.
	It's amazing when you look in Revelation, it says, To he who overcomes, I'll give a white stone on which is written a name that no one knows.
	To the Lord, names are really important.
	He does it all through the Bible.
	It's uncanny what the percentage of people in the Bible that we know about who had name changes.
	Yeah.
	Do you find that most of the parts live in the past?
	Yeah.
	What we often witness is parts, like as we do ministry, let's say that it broke in around five, and that's the first memory that begins to come up.
	And parts manifest in different ways.
	Sometimes it's a memory.
	Sometimes it's a feeling.
	Sometimes there's no memory, and I love that.
	There's times that we're dealing with SRA, and there's major feeling, and there's a knowledge of the age, and I say, Lord, what do you want to do?
	Is there a memory you want to heal?
	And the Lord just begins to heal and speak over them, and never is a memory brought to light.
	And I'm like, thank you, God, because I know in my spirit sometimes what it is that we might be dealing with.
	And the person doesn't even get a revelation of what that memory was.
	They just all of a sudden go from hopelessness to the joy of the Lord.
	Some people who do this type of ministry almost always require a memory to have to surface.
	And I always put that back in the Lord's hand.
	Because sometimes God, for whatever reason, and there's various reasons, healing from that memory is important.
	And often some of those memories that are really traumatic.
	The person did not have an awareness of.
	Most of the time, there is some awareness, and we know that we're not dealing with false memories.
	We always ask the Lord to remove it.
	If something begins to surface in it, and we just say, Lord, if this is a false memory, we pray that you would take it away.
	If it's false, it'll go.
	If it's real, it'll stay there.
	And a lot of times, there's evidence in the person's life of some type of trauma, but there's no memories.
	They don't have any memories from before they're 12 years of age.
	You know, when the Lord begins to surface those traumas, it's usually very commensurate with what has been going on in their life.
	The type of trauma that would have caused the issues that they are battling with.
	I've found that when a person has significant amnesia, especially during childhood, that there's a strong likelihood that they have suffered significant trauma.
	And what I've found is the worse the amnesia is, the fewer memories they have, the more blank spots they have when they look back at their life, the worse the trauma probably is.
	And when I started out doing this, I was always trying to get people to remember The event, and you run into these people who have amnesia, and what they have is they can feel emotions, but they don't have an event.
	They don't have a memory of the event.
	They just know they feel this deep despair and hopelessness, but they don't know what's causing it.
	What I found many times that what the Lord will do is, without bringing up the memory, He'll just heal the emotion, and they'll never recall the event.
	Yep.
	I prefer it when that happens, but I know sometimes That memory is important for various reasons.
	Right, and sometimes what I'll do is, I had this one gal that I was working with, she had been sexually assaulted at a very young age, I think she was like two years old, by her father.
	And she had no memory, she just had this emotion of terror and horror, and she didn't know what it was attached to.
	And I said, well, I'm just gonna ask the Holy Spirit, To show you the event, if it's important for you to remember it.
	And she saw this event, which she had no memory of up until that point.
	And she felt the emotion, and then the Lord healed the emotion.
	But it is interesting that sometimes He'll give them the memory of the event, and sometimes He won't.
	I guess for people listening, Don't get too hung up on whether the person can remember the event or not.
	It's not always important.
	If the Lord wants them to, He can, you know, bring it to their memory.
	If not, then it's probably not important.
	Can you talk a little bit about rejection of parts, and how sometimes the core of the personality will sometimes reject parts?
	Have you seen much of that?
	Yeah, it's interesting because a couple times that I've seen that have been actually people that ended up hospitalized before they came to us.
	And one of the factors behind that is, of what I've witnessed, and this isn't always the case, but a couple that just popped in my head as soon as you asked that question, were because the part really wanted to deal with a memory and the core didn't want to deal with it.
	And there are different parts as Different people have different terms.
	Sometimes there's a primary break that happened at childhood.
	Different people call it different things.
	I've heard it called the flip side, the twin.
	And it has unique characteristics.
	But sometimes that part especially is a more dominant part in a lot of people.
	And so in this case, because The core personality didn't want to deal with it.
	That part was really exerting its influence.
	And so she's in the hospital and they had three different charts on it with three different names.
	And so we ended up, we met, the core had a name and then the primary break had Almost the identical name, but it was just one letter difference.
	And it was interesting because the core wanted to argue and believe that that primary break was liar and must be even demonic.
	Because when she was young, in her teens actually, she had a boyfriend that tried to molest her.
	Well, the primary part that was Fighting for this influence, called it a rape.
	And she said, I wasn't raped.
	He tried, but he wasn't successful.
	And so then I was like, the Holy Spirit just began to show me.
	He was like, they both have the same experience and both would describe it the same way, but both call it different things.
	And so I asked that part, I said, when you hear the primary talking about this, are the details accurate?
	And she goes, yeah, the details are right.
	I'm not arguing with that, but that is rape.
	And I said, honestly, technically to the core, and it was a friend, I said, most counselors would call what you experienced rape, even though you got away from it.
	I was like, it is still rape.
	And what you're talking about right now and what's creating this major wall between you and this part is semantics.
	Right.
	I mean, it was a violent, traumatic event.
	Yeah.
	And the details of it are, you're right, are semantics, and it's strange how you can sort of twist that to get your way if you want to perceive it a certain way.
	Yeah, and so it was, she was arguing with herself!
	Fighting with herself over that incident.
	And it took a while for her to even open up to letting that part get ministry and get healing because she was afraid it had taken over and it had messed up so much of her life.
	But it was beautiful when the Lord healed that and reconciled them.
	And she goes, this isn't a messed up part.
	She cares about me.
	And the Lord had done amazing work in that part.
	But other people reject it because they feel like if I If you find a part in me, then that means I'm crazy.
	And some of these people have had the most messed up, mixed up life, but not that they're like so afraid.
	If there's a part in me, that literally means that I'm really crazy.
	I'm like, I had parts and I would pass any psychological test, you know, except for people that believe that you hear voices, you're, you know, mentally insane, you know, which I actually had a professor in seminary that said, anybody who says they heard God speak to them needs professional help.
	I need professional help, but other than that, you know, I don't have any of those type of issues.
	I got a question for you.
	Yeah.
	I am the administrator of a group on Facebook that is specifically for people with DID.
	And I have a lot of friends, actually, who have multiples.
	One of my friends, he would call himself, and everyone would call him, a very high-functioning multiple.
	He's very aware of his alters, and they're an interesting crew.
	He is reluctant to go through ministry.
	I think it's because his altars don't understand the process, and I think they have a perception that they're going to cease to exist if he goes through this process of emotional healing.
	What would you say to someone who has DID and their altars are afraid that they're going to be annihilated or cease to exist, and that's why they don't want to go through this?
	Well, first of all, there's nothing that we do that's against the will of the altars.
	There's no manipulation, there's no control, there's no, uh-ha-ha, we've got you now, we're gonna merge you, you know, it's not how it operates.
	What I often invite them into is a deeper encounter with Jesus and a trusting of Him and And I can tell him unequivocally, I've never seen the Lord not give apart a more valuable and worthwhile name and role.
	But instead of now being a fragmented soul, it's more of a united soul.
	And that together you can accomplish more than divided.
	And that's true of any organization, it's true of any church, it's true of anything, and the same is true of a soul.
	But I said, we've never merged a part that didn't want to be merged.
	And so I said, if you're willing to get some ministry, then at the point where that's a possibility, it'll be, what does the Lord want, and what do you want?
	And I've never had a part say, no way, I'm not ready.
	I don't say that very few times.
	There's I can think of two off the top of my head where the Lord put a part in a position of like a century for a period of time, and I don't know why that is.
	Those parts were often heavily tormented, hopeless, bound up, and now, you know, they have a role and feel very competent and capable and, you know, the Lord has healed them and they're so transformed.
	It's incredible.
	But I have witnessed that, I think, two times.
	I have a friend who she's, gosh, she's one of the oldest multiples that I know.
	She's 60 years old and has significant DID.
	And she's talked about like a sentry, like guardian parts who are given roles and responsibilities within the inner world to help them feel like they're valuable, to let them know that they have a function and they have a purpose.
	And until they're ready, I think what she says is, until they are ready to be integrated, the Lord will give them something, a little higher standing, a little something more significant for them to do, until they're ready to go to the next step, whatever the next step is going to be.
	Yeah.
	How do you introduce the parts to Jesus when you're doing the ministry?
	For me, I do that almost from the moment that we begin to communicate with Him.
	Because where I learn from, they often end up wanting to process the emotions and get deeper emotional healing, process memories before.
	And I'm like going, you know what?
	The first thing I want to do is introduce them to Jesus.
	And I want to put Him in charge of this ministry time.
	Rather than me assume that we have to deal with memories and we have to deal with emotions, let me put the Lord in charge.
	So part of that is introducing them to this And so it's overcoming some of their trepidation about meeting Jesus, their fears.
	And when I put that first, I tend to see the ministry take place faster.
	The Lord heals the emotions in the most incredible ways.
	We haven't had to explore the emotions they're presented, and then the Lord just comes in and heals them gloriously.
	There are times where we have to explore them.
	So I just don't start from the vantage point of, we have to do this, and here's how we do this, because I've learned so many different keys.
	But I'm like, I like to put it in the Lord's hands as soon as possible.
	So that varies, because sometimes you're dealing with a child part, and you can't talk To a child about their sinfulness, especially when they've been a victim.
	I present Jesus in a very different way to a child than I do an older part.
	You know, and then it's just a lot of times I go, Holy Spirit, just give me the words.
	And it is always just amazes me what that looks like and how varied it is, because it's all about connecting them to a relationship.
	Yeah, you know, it's interesting for me.
	I have found that when the Lord is leading me to do any kind of ministry, whether it's giving somebody a prophetic word, or physical healing, or emotional healing, it always, always, always comes down to an issue of I'm introducing you to Jesus.
	The goal of this interaction is not me getting you healed of bursitis or a migraine headache.
	The goal of this interaction is I want you to know something about Jesus that you did not know yesterday.
	And I want you to seek him out and develop a stronger relationship with him.
	Like, the Lord gave me this dream that I talk about all the time, where I was in the dream I was praying for people to be healed in the emergency department.
	And I was praying for a doctor who had like a, I think he had arthritis in his elbow, and I was praying for a child.
	And in the dream, I knew that the most important thing that the Lord wanted me to do was introduce them to His presence.
	Getting them healed was secondary.
	And this is really, I think, true in emotional healing.
	It is all about Jesus.
	If Jesus doesn't get involved in the process, it's not going to happen.
	There's no point in even doing it, because like you said, the earlier you get Jesus involved in the dynamic, The quicker it goes, the better it goes.
	He needs to be in control of what's going to happen next, I think.
	I like your approach in that you have kind of a setup to the encounter.
	Certain things that you do, I do the same thing.
	I don't say that I have a formula, but...
	I have a certain number of things that I do pretty routinely, but within that routine, I always try to, you know, let Jesus do whatever He wants to do at any particular time.
	Change it up, do whatever, because you really don't know what His plan is.
	I've been prophesying right in the middle of what I normally do.
	And I'm like, I know when that's happening that it's like, the Lord knows what part He wants to deal with already, and He just jumps right to talking to that part.
	And most of the time I really fight.
	I don't like the guided stuff.
	I stay away from that, except when the Holy Spirit tells me to.
	I'm not the type that goes, I'm not going to tell you, here's where you are, imagine this, and now do you see Jesus?
	I'm more like, what do you see?
	You've asked the word to come.
	What do you see?
	What do you hear?
	I don't try to guide, but when it becomes prophetic, I go, the word sees you.
	And what happens invariably, like this happened just yesterday with multiple people, I just started almost right off the bat, speaking prophetically to a part, and they were like going, Before you said a word, there was a part that was hiding and saying, there's no way you're going to get me to talk.
	And then I'm saying, the Lord sees you, and you don't want to be seen, and it scares you so bad right now that I'm talking to you, and that I know you're there.
	And I'm saying, but you don't have to be afraid of him.
	And I just keep going on and I'm like, I can tell them, they're like, everything that you were saying I felt is what I was feeling before he even said it.
	It was, and it's just the Holy Spirit is guiding this and he's calling that part out.
	And it was so amazing because it was, we merged a whole massive group.
	He said they would fill a stadium, but it started with one that was hidden.
	And then it was weird because as we were ministering to that one, I kept seeing one behind it.
	It was hiding in a corner.
	And then as soon as we were done ministering to that one, I said, the Lord sees you.
	There's another one.
	And I said, and there's more behind you.
	And I said, would you just step forward?
	All of a sudden, it was like this large group, and the Lord just began speaking and prophesying over the whole group.
	And we talked to the whole group, because they got to witness this one part, coming to Jesus and Him ministering to them.
	And I said, who else wants that healing?
	And it was like they had all been watching, and they all stepped forward.
	And Jesus— That's awesome.
	Jesus went through ministering to each one of them individually.
	I don't know the names of any of them.
	I don't even know what Jesus said to any of them.
	But it was like, he can be personal with every one of them at the same time.
	Isn't that amazing how he does it?
	It's, he's doing it all the time.
	We just, we think in our little boxes, but like he's hearing the Chinese church praying and the, and the American and the African and the Asian and you know, all over the world, he's hearing them all.
	And he's talking to them all.
	And he's telling all, Of his children that are receiving ministry, you are special to me.
	I love you.
	You matter.
	You're important to me.
	And it's true!
	We think because we're one in a billion, or six billion people, that we don't really matter.
	And the Lord's, like, so personal.
	He is.
	So, you want to talk about Jezebel?
	It was such an interesting story, and it ties into different things.
	She was a dear friend of our beautiful, beautiful woman.
	I've known her for years.
	We've been close friends.
	And, you know, she trusts me.
	I trust her.
	And all of a sudden I just said, whatever part it is that you want to minister to.
	She's been through so much trauma.
	It's incredible.
	Never had a part in anything like this before.
	And she goes, I'm Jezebel.
	I was like, okay, Jezebel.
	And she goes, she goes, you don't know really who I am or how powerful I am.
	I was like, okay, if this is a demon Lord, then I ask you to remove it.
	If this is a part, let us minister to it.
	And this friend of mine goes, you think your marriage is strong and you think you're strong, but you have nothing.
	You can't resist what my wiles or whatever it was, something like that.
	It was like, Almost knocked me over.
	I was like, I never had that direct of an approach.
	Oh man, we've been friends for 12 years.
	Never, never had anything, you know, like this happen.
	And all of a sudden, she's talking to me like, I'm coming after you, and I'm gonna seduce you, and you're not gonna be able to stand up.
	And I was like, I don't deal with this every day.
	And all of a sudden, I just, like, the Lord just took over.
	I mean, it was not even 30 seconds.
	And I said, Jezebel, let me tell you about the most powerful man who has ever lived.
	And I was like, as I'm hearing myself speak, I'm going, this is brilliant!
	Because what is Jezebel drawn to?
	Men of Power, but I haven't had two seconds to even think about my response.
	I'm kind of still stunned, but it was like the Holy Spirit took over and I'm listening and I said, I said, this man is a man so full of love and he loves you, but he is most powerful man.
	He's changed history.
	He is shaking kingdoms and he wants a relationship with you and I talk about how you have always liked men of power, but to have the influence that you have, you always felt like you had to sell a piece of yourself.
	You had to give something to get power, and you were in that quest for power, but a part of you died every time you did that.
	And I spoke for literally 15, 20 minutes to Jezebel, and my heart changed towards Jezebel.
	I was like seeing her as a victim of her own sin and in bondage to this.
	Her quest for power had cost her her very soul.
	She had zero self-respect left.
	And I had never thought about any of this.
	And when I was done, I'm thinking, okay, is she going to bite my head off?
	Is she going to continue to try to seduce me?
	She just begins to weep.
	She goes, how could he ever love me?
	How could he ever forgive me for the things that I've done?
	We didn't have any more of the Isabella kind of stuff.
	We had a little, I mean, not even a little girl.
	I mean, it was, it was a young woman part that was so ready.
	To be washed and cleansed and forgiven.
	And it was beautiful.
	It was powerful.
	And it, and it, I had a whole fresh new perspective of Jezebel.
	And of course this was a part, this is not the demon.
	Right.
	But the people that have subjected themselves to that spirit.
	Right.
	And what it has cost them.
	And they are not the demon.
	I've never believed that they are.
	I've battled Jezebel in different churches, and I know it's not the person that's coming against me or the prophetic.
	It's the spirit, and so I battle it in the spirit realm.
	But this was like a whole fresh new perspective, and I was just like, wow, Lord, I see Jezebel through your eyes now, the person.
	And the people that have given themselves to that spirit.
	The demonic was gone so easily, and yeah, it was pretty incredible.
	Well, the truth is powerful.
	Yeah.
	So, quick question for you.
	Can emotional healing and deliverance be done safely by an individual on themselves?
	Yes, it is safe to do on your own, and yes, we need other people to do it.
	I believe that we are the body of Christ for a reason, and we need one another.
	I also believe that the Lord has given us everything we need for life in God, and that doesn't mean I don't need you.
	What's his name?
	Jack Frost used to go twice a year to receive ministry.
	And he would talk about that openly.
	And I thought, God, that's the way I want to be.
	I don't have money to go search out people for ministry.
	I don't feel like I always have to have ministry multiple times a year, but he would go for a week of ministry.
	And I believe that we need each other.
	There are times that I've had to do self-deliverance and there are times that I've needed to go to someone else.
	Some of these type of things, I've known people, like for me, I wouldn't even know where to begin to deal with a part in myself, because I wasn't aware of any parts.
	Someone else, the guy that taught me, he said, I couldn't get an appointment for six months, and I knew what was going on, and I read everything, and I understood it, so I began to do it to myself, and I had merged numerous parts before I went for ministry.
	I was like, that's amazing, you know?
	So, it can be done on oneself to some degree, but I do believe we need Yeah, and I would agree.
	I have some situations where I've felt some emotional trauma where I just quickly gave it to Jesus, and He took care of it, didn't need anybody else involved.
	But I've had those more significant traumatic things where I knew this was bigger than me, and I needed some help, so I got a hold of one of my buddies, and they walked me through the process.
	So that's cool.
	What do you think is the key thing about emotional healing and deliverance that most people are missing?
	I believe there's a lot of valuable keys, but I guess the thing that we've talked about a fair amount today, and something that revolutionized my ministry after Many years of doing this, even teaching people how to hear God's voice, is just learning to facilitate an encounter with Jesus, is... I feel like I accomplish more by doing less.
	And that is very easy to say, and it's actually very easy to do.
	But for many people, it's like, what did you just say?
	How do you do that?
	But it really is, it's amazing how easy it is, and it's amazing how powerful it is.
	I would agree.
	You know, it's kind of funny, when I do physical healing, a lot of times I'll be exhausted when I'm done doing, you know, just doing ministry with a group of people.
	But when I do emotional healing, I don't get nearly exhausted, and I have much better results with emotional healing.
	It's less work, because I've come to realize Jesus is really the one doing the work, and I'm just kind of sitting back and, you know, perceiving and understanding, okay, what is Jesus saying?
	What's he doing?
	And he's doing most of the work.
	I'm just kind of hanging back being a narrator, sort of.
	Well, the truth is they're so interconnected.
	We have people come in for physical healing, and I don't start by just going after the physical healing.
	I go, most of our physical issues are rooted in spiritual stuff, and even stuff like you talked about the generational.
	My own sister had five vertebrae damage, and it was from a number of car accidents.
	The first clue that it might be generational was the fact that my mom Had the exact same operation at the exact same age.
	Now her discs had been chipped and pieces of bone were sticking in the spinal cord.
	Both of them.
	The same thing happened.
	I have not heard of that, but like one other person in all my years of ministry, but it was like the fourth or fifth vertebrae down on both of them.
	Chips of bone stuck in the spinal cord and they had to go in from the throat, the front of the throat to, and you know, open up their, Spinal or the discs and remove these chips of bone from the spinal cord and put it all back together.
	And 50% chance you lose your voice on this operation.
	First clue that it might be generational is 32 years of age and 32 years of age.
	Both of them had the same operation.
	My sister had originally thought, well, this isn't something spiritual because it happened in car accidents.
	So, you know, thinking my brother heals people of spiritual stuff.
	I see it all interwoven, and I'm going, well, we don't know, but okay, there's a pretty good clue that it might be generational.
	We asked the Holy Spirit to reveal to us what the root was, and my dad and I were both praying for it.
	And instantly, we both had visions, and in both of the visions, it had to do with abuse of slaves.
	And in my vision, it was also KKK.
	I don't remember if I knew at that time, but at some point along my journey, I found out that both sides of our family owned slaves.
	But you don't write in the history book what anybody did, but I saw these atrocities.
	So my sister repented on behalf of the sins of our forefathers.
	And that day, she pulled the neck brace off, had total movement in her neck.
	Pain in her bedroom, went to the doctor, they x-rayed and the doctor wrote healed on her paperwork.
	He said, all the tips of bone are gone.
	And so there was a pretty amazing, miraculous healing that day dealing with generational curses and spiritual roots to what appeared to be just a physical issue.
	And we had already prayed over physical healing.
	But when she opened up to maybe there could be something spiritual, boom, you know, the healing took place.
	I'm with you.
	I am taking a much more integrative approach, kind of a, if you want to call it a holistic approach toward healing now.
	Especially when there's a lot of Christians who have received prayer from ministries who have a pretty good track record, and you know, they're still not healed.
	I had a very similar case with a woman like you.
	This woman had been in car accidents and had really bad neck and back pain.
	And she, you know, just kind of assumed it was because of the car accidents.
	She had received a lot of prayer, wasn't healed.
	We took her through the emotional healing process.
	By the time we were done, all of her pain was gone.
	And I see so much more of that now.
	When I get someone who comes to me and says, hey, I need to be healed of XYZ.
	And my first question is, have you received prayer for it before?
	And if they say no, sometimes I'll just go straight forward with releasing power or using authority.
	But if they say, yeah, I've received prayer a lot and I've never been healed yet, that to me, that indicates that there's something else going on besides just a physical problem.
	It's probably emotional or generational.
	And I see a lot better success when you look at multiple different issues and systematically work through them.
	So, can you tell me a little bit more about your book, The Jesus Training Manual?
	Yeah, I had launched the thing in a book called The 40 Day Revolution years before, but it was the first book that I wrote and did not like English, I did not like writing assignments, but the Lord kept telling me, the things I'm teaching you aren't just for you, they're for really the whole body of Christ.
	And the original title of it was, Lord Disciple Me, because that was my prayer.
	I was like, Lord, would you teach me the things you taught the Twelve?
	And because discipleship is so misunderstood, we changed the title to the Jesus Training Manual, because I believe that what the Lord began to show me was the very foundational things that Jesus taught his disciples.
	In the Great Commission, he said, teach them everything I've taught you.
	And I would swear that part of the Great Commission was added at some point.
	Because we were great commissioned churches, but none of us had ever really examined, what did Jesus teach his disciples?
	Of course, we read the New Testament, but never from the examine, what was it that Jesus taught his disciples?
	If they're to go and teach everyone the stuff he taught them, what did he teach them?
	Seems like such a simple, basic thing, but when I did that, I'm going, God, this is so radically different from anything I've experienced or seen in church.
	So, you know, as the Lord taught me different things, I was like, when you boil it all down, what did Jesus teach?
	He taught His disciples by His example.
	One of the things He said is, I never do anything of my own initiative.
	I only do what I see the Father doing.
	And He talked about hear the shepherd's voice.
	And so He was teaching them how to hear the Father's voice, how to have a communion with the Father and with Him.
	And so that was one of the keys that Jesus was teaching.
	He taught them that they have authority and power.
	He gave them authority and power to cast out demons, to heal the sick.
	Two very powerful keys that I had never been given.
	I did not know that he's given us everything we need to be able to heal the sick, to cast out demons.
	The Kingdom of God, that's a study I'm doing afresh again for I don't know how many times, but it's so radically different when you look at The truth of the Kingdom of God, I'm like going, how did I have a seminary degree and I couldn't answer easily, well, what the Kingdom of Heaven and the Kingdom of God were about?
	I could have sounded intelligent because when you get degrees, you always have to at least try to come off like you know what you're talking about.
	But I knew that I didn't have a real solid answer for that.
	But that's what That's what Paul says he went about preaching the kingdom of God, and he went about teaching the kingdom of God.
	It's what the disciples went out teaching.
	It's what Jesus taught.
	Repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
	And he went from town to town preaching the kingdom of God, healing the sick, casting out demons.
	That's repeated over and over again.
	And I was like, what is the kingdom of God?
	So it's those type of foundational things.
	Our authority, the power of God.
	What I believe would be Class 101, but I had been to so many Class 101s and never heard these things.
	So, that's what Jesus' Training Manual is about.
	Right on.
	I love that.
	That's the thing that the Lord has had me focus on for the last five years, and which is why my books in my series, The Kingdom of God Made Simple, Healing Made Simple, Seeing in the Spirit, Hearing God's Voice, it's all about the kingdom of God.
	Hey look, what did Jesus actually teach his disciples?
	To hear God's voice, to release power, to exercise authority, to raise the dead.
	Those are the things that he taught his disciples.
	And then he told his disciples, go and teach the world all the things I've taught you.
	People can get distracted on a lot of different things other than what Jesus actually taught his disciples.
	And it just blesses me to know that there's people like you who get it, they're teaching it, you're setting people free.
	And I love it.
	Can I ask you a question?
	Yeah.
	What kind of receptivity do you find in most churches?
	I stay out of churches.
	I kind of say that jokingly, but I'm really serious.
	I don't go to a church regularly.
	I don't teach in churches very often.
	Most of the people that are friends with me and follow me on my podcast, my website, and on Facebook are church dropouts.
	I have a very unusual ministry in that I'm primarily called and ministering to people and teaching people who are outside the church, the institutional church.
	The only time I ever really teach inside of a church setting building is, I've got a buddy here, they have an Arizona School of Supernatural Ministry.
	It's located at different places around Arizona, they have five or six locations, and they bring in itinerant Teachers, and prophets, and apostles, and healers.
	And they do that two sessions a year.
	I've partnered with them, and I teach one session for each of their semesters.
	But I don't really do a lot of teaching inside of churches, church buildings.
	I get requests, but that's not what the Lord has actually asked me to do.
	So my experience is just very different from a lot of people.
	And the message that I put out there about, you know, anyone can do it, and you don't have to be anyone special, is very well received.
	I tend to reach a lot of people who are believers, and they're still believers, and they're still pursuing God, but they've either outgrown church because They've been going to, you know, whatever denominational church for five years, they've heard all the messages, and they stopped growing.
	They grew for a while, they were interested in things, and then they just started hearing the same things over and over again, and they weren't really going anywhere different, anything new.
	A lot of people are frustrated with the institutional church because it seems to lack power.
	There really isn't a lot of signs and miracles and wonders going on.
	Unless you go to places like Bethel.
	And you know, there are some more of those churches popping up here and there.
	But I tend to draw to my following people who are, have either been, are just fed up with church, they've been kicked out of churches, they've been abused by church leadership.
	A lot of those people, I actually ended up doing some emotional healing because of the betrayal or abuse of, you know, in leadership and things like that.
	There tends to be a large cross-section of the people that I end up drawing into my message.
	And when they run into me, they're like, hey, you're talking about healing, and traveling in the Spirit, and seeing in the Spirit, and hearing God's voice.
	And those are kind of my key things that I teach about.
	And it's really interesting, especially with traveling in the Spirit now.
	Since I published that book, people are coming out of the woodwork who are having experiences of traveling into the heavens and traveling around the world and, you know, praying for people and doing ministry and they're just traveling, you know, in the Spirit.
	And that is a very interesting thing that God has put on the map now.
	How much abuse have you seen of that?
	Abuse of traveling in the spirit?
	Yeah.
	Well, you know, not much abuse.
	Hardly any, what I would call abuse.
	What I do see a lot of is... I run into a fair number of people who have come from the New Age.
	Yeah.
	You know, and they're familiar with astral projection, and some of them are familiar with witchcraft, and some of the things they do.
	Those people tend to be very leery about traveling in the spirit.
	And so then I get to have the conversations where I explain to them, okay, so there's astral projection, and there is what the Apostle Paul did, and what Elijah did, and what Jesus did, and what the Apostle John did, all through the book of Revelation.
	They're traveling in the Spirit, but it's not astral projection.
	It's something different.
	I tend to have more discussions with people Who are familiar with traveling in the Spirit, but they're afraid because they have seen the dark side of it.
	Now, when I first came out with the book on Traveling in the Spirit, I did run into some people who, you know, they just thought it was heresy and nonsense and it's all astral projection and witchcraft.
	And that's fine.
	I don't really engage those people because they're not interested.
	And if they're not interested in the subject matter, I don't get into arguments with people.
	I'm interested in finding people Who want to learn more about it.
	And so I tend to look for those types of people to talk with.
	One of the things that's interesting is when you get into emotional healing and deliverance, okay?
	You're engaging the spiritual realm.
	You're engaging the demonic.
	You're engaging the angelic realm.
	And you're talking about an interdimensional existence of non-physical beings, all these different parts of the soul.
	They don't exist in the physical realm, right?
	So that kind of integrates into this whole question of, what is it to travel in the spirit, into the spiritual world?
	And really at bottom, what it comes down to for me is, I tell people, look, we are having interactions in the non-physical realm all the time.
	We're just not aware of it.
	Your spirit does not stop interacting with the Holy Spirit and Jesus and angels and demons when you're not aware of it.
	It's not like it just starts and stops magically.
	It's always going on.
	If you have wounded parts of your soul, they don't start and stop their existence when you become aware of them.
	They're always there.
	So, what I try to encourage people to understand is, Interacting in the spiritual world and in the realm of the soul, which I don't really know what dimension that is, but it's not something that is taboo and it's not something that we should be afraid of.
	It's something that happens all the time.
	You know, we are a spirit, we have a soul, we exist in a physical body for a limited period of time.
	What happens when your physical body dies?
	Well then your spirit and soul are still existing in the spiritual world.
	So my focus is really helping people understand that you can ignore this if you want to, but there's no reason to ignore it.
	You're having these interactions when you have dreams.
	And you've dreamed that you are going across the Atlantic Ocean and you're praying for somebody in Africa.
	There's a possibility that you're actually traveling there and doing that in reality and it's not just a dream.
	So it's fun stuff to talk about and I'm getting a lot more testimonies and I love them.
	Cool.
	You have a limited ability to do ministry with people who need emotional healing, I'm guessing, because of the busy schedule.
	It's expanding.
	We're building a team of people.
	That's an area right now that is both exciting and a little bit overwhelming.
	There's some things God, I believe, may be laying on my heart that I really want The Lord to make clear.
	I just got a call today from someone in Utah, a woman who just got out of a hospital trying to commit suicide.
	She's got three children and she's like, I'm a victim of SRA.
	People are out to hurt me.
	I need a place to go.
	And I'm like, I can do ministry over the phone.
	And I'm like, I can't tell you.
	We actually pulled our ministry to SRA off of our website.
	Not because we don't want to do it, but because of the inundation.
	And then the Lord began to—it's like he began to peel back the veil.
	And, like, I don't research stuff because I don't want to know what the enemy's up to.
	I only want to know the Lord.
	But the Lord had me start researching some stuff.
	I'm sure you probably have heard of Pizzagate.
	Yep.
	And all, it's like all that's happening in the DC area.
	And then the pedophile rings in Hollywood.
	There's a lot that's being exposed right now.
	And I'm just like, you know, there's people, mainstream people, rappers, music artists that are talking about, you know, the Illuminati and, you know, the stuff they've been a part of.
	There's excerpts like Katy Perry going, I wish I knew who Katy Perry was.
	I miss her.
	And I don't even know where she went.
	And you know, stuff like that.
	I'm like going, God brings us those kind of people.
	Not Katy Perry, but you know, the people that have been that messed up and we can bring healing to them.
	And I'm like going, I felt like the Lord telling me it's time to buy I'm like, I don't have money to do that, but it's time to have a place for people to come to and receive ministry because what you're doing over Skype and stuff like that is great, but the people that are coming that are more broken, that isn't going to work for them.
	The need for healing on a large scale is frightening.
	Training centers and we need people to get trained up and equipped to learn how to do this.
	I want a training center where people are coming, receiving ministry, but people are being equipped and it's expanding.
	And the Lord said, I offered in one of the parables, He said, I offered this banquet to the sons of the kingdom.
	But they rejected it.
	So I want you to go to the prostitutes and the homeless and compel them to come.
	And that is who I'm going to give the kingdom to.
	And he said to the religious leaders, he said, he said, the kingdom is passing you by.
	And the most broken people, basically what he's saying, are the ones that are coming for it.
	And the Lord was like going, the message, the message that you have and the equipping that you have, It's spurned by most people.
	He said, but the most broken are hungry for it and then want to help others.
	It's like the Lord's laying something on my heart that's both scary and exciting and... Welcome to the club.
	I'm a failure.
	There's no way I can do something like this.
	And I'm like, you know, I'm just going, God, I don't want anything that comes in my own imagination.
	If this is of you, Let the seed germinate and let it come to pass.
	If it's of me, let it die a quick death and let us just keep doing what we're doing.
	It's funny because I have the same thing going on.
	The Lord has been speaking to me about moving out the tent pegs and doing more training and equipping on a larger scale where I could reach more people.
	And my first reaction was, oh my gosh, this is going to be so much work.
	And where are the resources going to come from?
	And it's a whole new way of, you know, doing things.
	The Lord's been expanding, you know, my vision like you are getting this vision to expand, do more training and equipping.
	I've been doing the same thing.
	I've been putting the wood to the fire, building this new platform where I can do more training and equipping because I just realized there's so many people out there who need it.
	Yeah, it'll be online.
	I'm creating kind of an online university, if you will, video-based teaching with some live streaming video teaching.
	It'll be topical, so there will be classes on healing and classes on emotional healing and deliverance.
	Hearing God's voice and seeing in the Spirit, things like that.
	Because people have been asking me, they're like, hey, when are you going to do mentoring?
	When are you going to do coaching?
	When can we get some more of your time?
	Your books are great, but we'd like to actually talk to you and get some more personal training.
	And people are really hungry for this.
	So I would encourage you, Richard, to don't be afraid.
	If the Lord's put it on your heart, just do it.
	And you're going to watch people flock to it.
	They're hungry for it.
	I had like 24 hours to process some of what I felt like the Lord was saying yesterday.
	I've been wanting to train people and equip people, but I've been content.
	Jesse came, sat in, watched me do ministry.
	Then he began to do ministry, and then he took it into the workplace.
	That's kind of the way it should happen.
	And that's the hands-on is the best way.
	I've shot a gazillion videos, but whoever helped us set that up in the past, it was just too ad hoc.
	I had the flow of how to do it, but it was just a bunch of videos on pages.
	It wasn't set up like a real school, like a university.
	But there's stuff like that.
	When we took it down for a while, people were like, I've watched every one of your videos.
	I've been waiting for more.
	Why did you take them down?
	I send people, and I'm like, oh, sorry.
	You know, I didn't know anybody had ever read, watched any of them.
	We didn't have a way of tracking, and I'm sure there was back end, you know, that we could have found out stuff like that, but we didn't know it, so.
	At times I'm like going, God, I want to equip people, but there's not too many people that seem hungry for more equipping, you know?
	Well, you'd be surprised.
	Yeah.
	I'm running into a lot of people.
	The more I put out there, the more I get inquiries from people.
	Yeah.
	Hey, is there anything more than this?
	It's not everybody.
	You know that.
	There are certain people who just want to be healed and they don't want to learn at all anything about healing.
	There are other people.
	who are kind of, you know, I'll learn a little bit, just enough so that I can feel spiritual.
	And then there are those people who are, they're hardcore.
	They want to know everything you know, and they want to know more than what you know.
	I'm building a platform for those people, for the people who just want to do this stuff.
	And they're fearless, and they're bold, and they want to get it done.
	So you'll find those people.
	If you build it, they will come.
	Well, my brother, I should probably be letting you go.
	I know you got things to do.
	It's kind of late where you are, and I just really appreciate your time.
	I find this subject so fascinating.
	My followers who are listening to my podcast and my YouTube channel, they love this stuff.
	I know they're gonna be blessed by it.
	If people want to contact you, your ministry is Operation Lightforce.
	Yeah.
	So, OperationLightForce.com, that's the website?
	Yep.
	We also have GodSpeaksBible.com, if anybody wants to know about that.
	We have 40DayRevolution.com, but yeah, the main site is OperationLightForce.com.
	That's more about the ministry.
	I'll put links to those in the notes.
	Okay.
	All right, man.
	I'm gonna let you go.
	Really appreciate your time.
	Thanks, brother.
	All right, you too.
	Take care.
	Well folks, that is our show for today.
	I hope you enjoyed it.
	Thanks for dropping by.
	If you're new to the podcast and you haven't been to my website, you might drop by and check out the articles I have there.
	If you have any questions or comments about the show, you can contact me at admin at prayingmedic.com.
	That's A-D-M-I-N at prayingmedic.com.
	You can also contact me on Facebook and Twitter.
	I'd like to thank you again for dropping by.

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