039 Jeremy Mangerchine - What to Do Once You Know You're Free
I caught up with my friend Jeremy Mangerchine at an airport on his way to India. This is a casual conversation about his latest book The Table and the Dream. The theme of which is what do do with your freedom in Christ once you know you're free. Topics covered:The relationship funnelStages of spiritual growthBeing a co-creator with GodMastering the human experienceWhat to do once you know you’re freeRoutines, habits and creative head spaceComing alive versus living in dysfunctionPushing though discouragement and completing a difficult
processResources The Stages of Faith by James FowlerThe Table and the Dream by Jeremy Mangerchine
We're talking about life as a child of God and all things related to His Kingdom.
Thanks for joining us.
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Now let's jump into this week's show.
Hey, man.
Can you hear all the background noise?
I can.
Ewww, dang.
Yeah, the overhead paging, I can hear that really good.
Your voice is fine.
Well that might make it extra fun then.
Part of the adventure.
Part of the adventure.
So, you're on your way to India.
Yeah.
Another missions trip.
Yeah, totally.
So what do you got going on over there?
That's a funny word, don't you think?
I know.
It is kind of a funny word.
Yeah, it kind of is a mission.
We need to come up with a different term for what we do when we leave our home base of operation.
I know.
What do you have?
You got any ideas?
Oh, gosh.
Imperialism?
There you go.
I like that.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I'm just not sure that, you know, that term missions covers everything that we do.
I don't know.
No, and I don't feel like when I'm going over there what we're doing.
It just doesn't feel like that word fits what we're doing.
Right.
So we're going over there.
We go once a year.
Actually, my good friend Dave is over there right now.
That's why I'm by myself because I'm going to be meeting him.
We're connected with some really awesome Indian nationals who have a really cool network.
It's pretty much an apostolic ministry where they go around India and they're developing Really strong network of leaders and pastors and bishops and all sorts of big titles.
So they go in and they do training programs where they teach and train pastors into walking in the power of the Holy Spirit, walking into the suit of God, and all that fun stuff.
So they bring us in to be a part of that.
So you're essentially doing leadership training?
Yep, that's exactly what we do.
Right on.
That's cool.
Equipping leaders to be leaders, basically.
That's an important job.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, rather than us going in and being the rock stars, it's about them.
Teaching them to be rock stars.
Absolutely.
That's what we want to do.
Helping them understand that they are.
Helping the little eagles understand that they are going to grow up to be big eagles.
I see what you did there.
You see what I did there?
I like that.
Nice segue.
That's a segue to your book.
I know.
We're recording?
We are recording.
Hey everybody.
So, I am excited about this book.
I'm really glad that you sent me an advance copy of the manuscript.
Wait, wait, wait.
I didn't send that.
Somebody must have stolen it and sent it to you.
Somebody... Yeah, no, I got it from some guy in India, I think.
Ah, I knew it!
You can't trust anyone named Dave.
Just, you know, stay away from him.
Actually, I'm getting ready to go meet up with two Daves.
So, there you go.
There you go.
Have you read the Dr. Seuss book, Too Many Daves?
No.
You need to.
Alright.
I've read a lot of them.
My kids love them and want to read them over and over again.
Yeah, you'll have to get that one.
Yeah.
So your book really challenged me in a good way.
The Table and the Dream.
Yeah.
I started reading it and you know I was expecting fastball and you definitely threw me some curveballs that I didn't see coming.
What were you expecting?
I don't know what exactly I was expecting but what I read totally came out of left field.
I mean, I know your message, and I know it's about getting people to understand their oneness with God.
And you really well illustrated that longest bridge across water.
But the second book, when you got to the part where you got to the inverted funnel, the relationship funnel, that's when the penny dropped for me, and I realized, oh, I see where this is going.
Because the first book, you kind of set up this idea that God will give you directions, give you some instructions, do this, do that, go here, go there, speak to this person.
But then the second book goes off on a completely different line of relationship, and it's the idea that, yeah, you can be controlled by God, but that's not the goal.
The goal is to operate as an independent contractor Under the authority of God.
I love that you use that word because that's what I use to describe myself, an independent contractor.
It's to where I cooperate with God and basically end up doing what it is either He leads me to do or we come up with together.
And the term independent does not mean you're independent of God.
Nope.
But it means He is no longer the one who tells you specifically everything to do.
Correct.
And He starts to ask you questions like, What is it that you would like to do?
What is it that I put in your heart that you feel like you need to do?
I love that you recognize that because there are a lot of... there's a dichotomy.
There's people teaching it's one way where God wants to micromanage you and control you and basically treat you like you're a marionette puppet and then over here there's people that want to teach that You can do whatever the heck you want to do.
You're free, that means do whatever you want to do whenever you want to do it.
And it's really hard to teach both and, because how do you formulize both and?
But it truly is both and.
It's like you said, I use the relationship funnel as an example.
That's what God showed me.
When you first come to know Him, when you first awaken to get to know Him, You're a child.
When I first was awakened to him, he talked about my first book, I was a child.
I was immature.
And so he knew that.
He wasn't worried about that, but what did he do?
He decided to be a little bit more overbearing in order to teach me to pull me in.
He was pulling me in and building this dependency, which was healthy.
And I was all on board with that and still am.
What happened was, the more I got to know his heart, the more deep and intimate our relationship began to be, the more he began to show me who I was, and I began to understand his heart.
He started challenging me to really start thinking, to really start developing vision, to really start doing things.
But wouldn't any good father want to do that with their son or daughter?
I mean, God's just like us.
I have three kids, and I know you have kids too.
And I know your desires for your kids are the same as mine, and that's to see them grow from being little toddlers to being powerful men and women, right?
And to see them begin to walk in the fullness of who they are in maturity, and that's ultimately what God wants us to do with them.
Yeah, well my kids are 22 years old, and there would be nothing That would be more tragic than if I was still having to tell my kids what they're going to eat for breakfast, and telling them what clothes they're going to wear.
When they grow up, you have to let go.
Right.
You gotta take the training wheels off and let them do their own thing.
Yeah.
And people don't realize that God is the same way with us.
The training wheels are on for a while, until you learn how to ride the bike and then the training wheels come off.
Yeah, totally.
And when you understand that, you learn to have a lot of grace and understanding for people Depending on where they are in their development.
So you can look at someone and you can kind of talk to them, ask them questions and really get a sense for where they are.
And then you can meet them where they are and help them develop and grow.
But ultimately it's about pushing them into intimacy with God because he's the one that needs to pull us into that funnel and develop us.
Because without that, it's frivolous.
And the funnel is an illustration of where things are narrow at one end and wide at the other end.
That's correct.
And you enter through the narrow end of the funnel, through the narrow gate.
See, this is the illustration that God's been using with me a lot lately.
You enter through a narrow gate into the kingdom.
There's only one way in.
It's a gate.
And it's very narrow at the beginning.
But once you go through that gate, you have this expanse of limitless possibilities in front of you.
It's no longer narrow.
It's very wide.
Yeah, absolutely.
And so many folks are sitting right at the gate and saying, OK, this is it.
This is great.
And I'm sitting there saying, I just want to go up behind him and give him a loving swift kick to the butt and say, jump in there.
There's so much to explore.
This thing is wide open.
This thing is beautiful.
There's this vast expanse that God has made available for us to co-create with Him, to To explore and to place things in place, and to dream things into existence with Him.
That's our inheritance.
Right.
That's what we were created for.
Right.
And a lot of people don't understand, and I think this is one of the things that I got out of your book, which is helping me right now, is understanding the fact that we all have a divine blueprint inside of us.
We all have things encoded into our DNA, desires, talents and abilities and it's only through developing those talents and abilities and manifesting those things that God has put in us that we're ever going to really be content and be happy and be successful.
You kind of talk about it being the gold magnet like once you lock in on what it is that God has created you and designed you to do you really can't fail.
Yeah, that's absolutely right.
God gave me that example in the life of Solomon, where Solomon basically, it was acknowledged through his father David, two times before David died, that he acknowledged within Solomon that Solomon had this gift of wisdom.
See, a lot of times we think that Solomon got his gift of wisdom and he became a wise man.
When he had the dream where God came to him in the dream and said, ask of me whatever you want and I'll give it to you.
And Solomon says, well I want a wise and understanding heart.
I want wisdom and understanding.
And then God said, well that's great.
I will definitely give you that, but I'm also going to give you all this other stuff too.
So, a lot of times it's taught that at that point in time Solomon was given wisdom.
But that's not correct.
Solomon was already wise.
Solomon already had a gift of wisdom.
He was already an extremely wise man.
What happened was when he had that dream, basically, he was responding to God and saying, God, this gift that you put inside of me, this way that you hardwired me, this DNA that you blueprinted me with, this ability, I'm looking at it, I'm looking it in the eyes, and I'm embracing it.
I'm not going to run from it.
I'm acknowledging that it came from you, and I'm going to walk in it.
And so God says, perfect, perfect, perfect.
And then it says after that, the nobility from around the land, other wise people came and were drawn to him.
And it said also items like wood and gold and all these other treasures were drawn to him.
It said they were basically, they came to him.
And so that's when God said, see, he was a gold magnet.
That's like us.
When we embrace who God's created us to be, when we stop running from who it is that we are, when we stop looking around us, To have the world and other people define who we are and what we should be doing.
And when we finally say, okay, God, who I am is good enough.
Who you've made me to be is good enough.
And I'm going to jump in.
I'm going to dive inside of myself, led by you and explore who it is that I am and what you've created me to be.
I'm going to get in touch with the inner gold magnet.
That is when you become the gold magnet.
That is when you never run out of ideas.
That's when you never lack for opportunities.
That's when All these things start coming your way.
And gold isn't just defined by monetary resources and money.
Gold is relationships.
Gold is anything good.
Anything good.
Just loving relationships.
It's all that stuff.
But it does include money as well.
It includes favor.
There's relational currency.
It includes a lot of different things.
Money is an example.
You know, it's interesting because you're talking about Solomon, and I've written about this in books, but I've never actually seen it that way and now that I think about it, what I notice is Solomon, you say that Solomon had wisdom.
Well, yeah, I guess he did.
When God said, ask of me whatever you want and I'll give it to you.
And Solomon said, what I really want is wisdom to rule over your people.
Right.
Now, Solomon asked God He didn't ask for wisdom to rule over his people because he was a wise man.
He didn't ask for gold.
He didn't ask for the heads of his enemies.
He didn't ask for all this other stuff.
He thought about that, and he thought, no, what I really need is wisdom to rule over your people.
It was a wise request, which displayed that he already had wisdom.
I think he knew he was a wise man, and what he wanted was an application of the wisdom he already had that would help him to rule over Israel.
And that's what God gave him.
I mean, he already had the wisdom, like you said, but now it was going to apply to a specific situation, which was ruling Israel.
And then God said, oh yeah, by the way, all that other stuff that you didn't ask for, I'm giving you that too.
Yeah, he wanted to activate the gift within him.
That's how I describe it in the book.
I give the process of activate, hone it, gain mastery of it, and then express it.
Okay?
And that's what he was doing.
He acknowledged it, he became aware of it, We recognized it, but he was cooperating with God when God came and gave the invitation to activate it within him.
That's the cool thing is, all of that is within us.
That's the beautiful thing about all this, and that's what the whole book is about, really.
I spent a lot of time organizing the structure and trying to help people understand really the simplicity of it all, and that simplicity is just this.
It's that all of this, everything that you are awakening to, everything that you're tapping into already exists within right here.
It's not without, it's not outside of you.
It's not from anywhere without.
Right?
So if you're in perfect unity with Christ, that's done.
And so the exploration process is a process of diving inward with the Holy Spirit to get to know Him.
That's infinitely deep.
That you could do for forever.
But then, once that gets going, once he recognizes that we're in a good spot with that, he starts saying things like, hey, it's time to get to know yourself, it's time to turn inwards, it's time to turn the tables on you.
It's kind of like a trick move that he pulls, but I love it.
Because so many times, people in the Christian world are taught That the things that they've wanted to do since they were kids, the things that they've felt deep, intuitively, either are bad, they're not of God, or they just need to go ahead and get rid of them altogether.
And so people have really deadened themselves within.
And that leads to anxiety, that leads to depression, that leads to all kinds of negative things.
And really it's just people's selves, it's who God's created them to be, begging to get out and express yourself.
Yeah, you know, one of the phrases that people throw around a lot is, we have to die to ourselves.
Well, there are a lot of things that are written in the scriptures where people like the Apostle Paul were speaking to specific issues and using phrases to describe certain situations.
And I think a lot of times we get a misunderstanding or misapplication of those biblical principles And when we misapply them, it totally screws up our ability to do what God wants us to do, and to be the person God wants us to be.
An example, people say, I need to die to myself.
Well, look, the deal is, what Paul really said was, I reckon myself to be dead.
I reckon, I consider my old way of life to be dead, and I consider A new way of life, the new life in Christ, that's the one that I'm manifesting right now.
So people run around saying, you know, I just need to die to myself.
Well, no you don't.
What you need to do is, once you have already been past tense, your old life has died.
The fruitless, worthless, vain life before you met Jesus is dead.
Okay, you don't need to die to yourself anymore.
You need to come alive to the person that God has made you to be.
You need to tap into the potential.
You need to identify the gifts.
You need to look at those passions that have been pulling at you since you were a kid and start seeing how God wants to work those out in your life.
Yeah, let's think about this.
If we're constantly trying to kill ourselves, then that really means that what Jesus did wasn't good enough.
So, if, in fact, It really is finished, like Jesus said, and our old self did die on the cross with Christ.
Then, now when we are interacting with God, and we're interacting with Jesus, we are not interacting from a place of brokenness anymore in front of Him.
If we are, then that is called dysfunction.
That's what God showed me, is that when we're constantly trying to be fixed, when we're constantly seeing ourselves as fragmented and broken and as dead, Selfish person, then it's really impossible to ever have a healthy functional relationship with Him and His person because everything we're doing when we go to Him is trying to complete something that's already been completed.
So when you really start to realize that all that has been done already, then you can start having an actual functional relationship with God.
You can start communicating with Him in a healthy way where all of your interaction with Him isn't about Negative things about you and him or yourself.
It's about positive things about, okay, well now I can look outwards from jumping within and then now my life isn't about trying to get myself fixed and trying to fix a dysfunctional person.
But now I can look outwards and I realize that my whole life is about bringing increase to other people in the whole world.
Right?
Not to fix myself.
And that's the whole thing because there's nothing self-centered about that.
See, when I talk about discovering yourself and all this stuff, discovering your gift, that can be misconstrued as teaching people to be self-centered, but it's absolutely the opposite, because I'm teaching people that they're complete.
Once you learn you're complete, and you can move outward from there, it's not about what's in it for us.
Now, on the other hand, we don't reject good things that God sends our way either, right?
That's a poverty mentality.
We don't say, okay, well God People are giving us things.
There's actually stuff coming our way.
That's false humility where we say, oh no, no, I can't receive that.
We say, yes, thank you, I receive it.
But our focus is looking outwards at other people.
Who needs to be loved?
Who can I help?
Who can I develop?
Who can I care for?
There's this guy named Jim Fowler.
Fowler, if I'm not mistaken, is a developmental psychologist.
And he developed what he called the six stages of spiritual growth.
He describes six different stages of spiritual growth and they're very similar to what you describe in your book.
The initial journey, if you will, in the stages of spiritual growth is an inward journey where you're going inside of yourself to try to figure out who you really are, who God really is, and then that you hit this wall.
Between stages three and stages four, there's this wall where you either become really, really frustrated with who you are and your spirituality, and you know that there's more, and you know that there's something beyond what you're doing right now, but you have to break through the wall and enter stage four.
And once you do, You go on this inward journey, but you end up in stages five and six coming to peace with who you are, peace with who God is.
And in stage six, it's actually a journey back outward where you are now able to help others, you're able to help people see who they are, you're able to pour into other people.
Yes, initially it looks a little self-centered, but once you get to the point where you understand who you are, It's then that you can actually start helping other people.
That's right.
That's right.
And you have to go through that stage.
You have to.
And maybe it is a little bit self-centered for a little while, but it's not a negative self-centeredness.
It's a getting healthy so that you can help other people.
Right.
I mean, I'm in the airport right now.
Yeah.
Okay.
I just got off a plane.
I'm going to be getting on another plane.
And they obviously, they tell people if anything happens, Don't, yeah, take on the air supply yourself before you try to give it to someone else.
I mean, everyone knows that analogy, but it's so true.
And that's exactly what he's talking about.
That's exactly what you're talking about.
That's exactly what I'm talking about.
And we really cannot help people until we've come to terms with who God's created us to be, be okay with that, and then you can, you can, the trajectory that you get shot out of with, from that point is massive.
It's like, it's like a cannon.
Right, so you have to master yourself in a sense.
Yes, because then what are you doing?
Then you're being somebody else.
You don't realize it, but if you're not being you, then you're being a concoction of everything you see around you.
Well, most of us grow up imitating other people, imitating pastors, imitating football players, basketball players, imitating writers.
We imitate everyone else because that somehow gives us a sense of identity even though it's a false identity.
Sure.
But at some point we have to learn who we really are.
And we have to develop our unique voice.
Yep.
Our own views of the world.
We have to apprehend our true identity.
And, you know, it's been said that Jesus mastered the human experience.
And I think he gave us a model.
I think we need to master the human experience ourselves.
Our own human experience.
Yeah, absolutely.
That requires an understanding of who Jesus is and was and what he desires for us.
See, that's why I love how you said that because a lot of times people are taught that they're supposed to hate their humanity.
That it's not spiritual to be human.
But it is absolutely 100% spiritual to be human.
That's Gnosticism.
That's one of the Gnostic heresies.
Everything that's human and physical is evil.
Well, that's just plain old Gnosticism.
It sure is.
But it's taught all over the place.
Whether people realize it or not, they probably buy into it a little of it.
I did, and I probably still do a little bit here and there.
But God is breaking that off of us, and we're starting to see that being human is the greatest thing you could possibly do.
It's spiritual.
And it's funny because when we become okay with that, when the Holy Spirit illuminates our hearts and minds that that is actually a good thing, we're way more supernatural than we ever could have been when we tried to, and then tried to separate the two.
Dude, when, in the book of Genesis, when God is creating the universe, you know, He said, ooh, that's good.
Ooh, that's good.
Ooh, that's good.
Then He created Adam and Eve.
He didn't go, oh, that's really bad.
Yeah.
That was the first time he said, that is very good.
Yes.
That is, like, better than everything else I already created.
Yeah, that's why, um, what is it, Proverbs 8, I think it is.
I read it almost every day.
I read it in the, uh, Amplified, by the Holy Spirit, and in Proverbs, the Holy Spirit's She, sorry, it is what it is, um, she says, I was with God in the beginning, And I was delighting in the sons of man.
That's you and me.
That's human beings.
So God is delighting in us.
In our humanity.
With us.
As us.
How crazy is that?
That's pretty crazy.
He actually delights in us.
I don't know if that would preach well in a lot of churches.
What's that?
That God delights in us.
I mean, it's obviously true, but I don't know.
It's kind of a radical idea.
Yeah, I didn't realize that.
Somebody asked me a handful of years ago, they're like, I know God loves me, but does he like me?
And my initial response was, of course he does!
And they're like, well where's that in scripture?
And I was like, huh, that's a good question.
And there's, you know, there's some people aren't okay with the fact that God enjoys them, He likes them, He delights in them.
And I get it, I mean, of course I don't agree with it, but what a miserable way to live.
Because then really, if you don't believe God delights in you, then you can't actually delight in anybody else.
Because then you're acting contrary to the will of God, the heart of God.
Right.
Well, we act toward others the way we believe God acts towards us.
Exactly.
I mean, the easiest way to justify the way you treat other people is to look at how God treats you and go, well, I'm just treating you the way God treats me.
I'm loving you the way he loves me.
That's why you can punch someone in the face and say, I'm loving you.
And you're like, no, no, you just punched me in the face.
And I'm like, no, no, no, no, I'm loving you.
It's just different definitions of love.
I mean, I've dealt with that.
I still am dealing with that with people.
And I really am coming to a really good place in my journey in life and with God, realizing that they're just doing what they feel is right, the best that they know how.
Of course, I don't agree with it.
It really helps me extend grace to them, knowing and understanding that while what they are doing to me is completely preposterous in my mind and completely What I do not, what I don't think of as love, that's what they think is love.
And in their mind, they're trying to love me.
You can work with that.
It's not ideal, but it's so fun to start realizing that.
I mean, there's a lot of stuff going on in the world right now, as we record this, all over the place.
So much judgment on different people, and I don't know.
It really helps me not have enemies in my heart at all, knowing that even people who are doing That they're doing the right thing.
It really helps you love them that way.
That was a little bit of a tangent.
It was a little bit of a tangent, but that's okay.
You mentioned that you were working on some more books.
Maybe.
As much as you're trying to kick this writing habit to the curb.
It's not a habit.
I don't know what the definition of a habit is, but I would think that the definition of a habit would be doing something that you enjoy doing, maybe?
Right.
Well, writing books is not a habit for you.
Writing books is a chore for you.
Yeah, it's a love-hate relationship.
I love the finished product.
I love, there's something about completing a project and creating something that didn't exist and bringing something to life in the world that can be spread through the globe to touch people and to inspire and encourage and empower people that really really just gets me going.
I hate the process.
I'm learning to like the process in certain ways and I mean if you don't then you'll never do anything right?
I mean but it's like that with anything difficult and I mean for the listeners, no I'm sure there's people listening that are Working on books of their own and they're considering quitting or considering what they need to do, don't quit.
If you've gotten going, if you're working on it, push through because it's not easy.
Nothing that you see that's awesome was easy for anybody to create.
I mean, I'm sitting here, I'm in the airport.
To build this building was difficult.
You know, somebody had to push through the difficulties and be smart and manage their time and get things done.
I'm looking around at products all around me.
Same thing.
It was somebody that said, okay, you know what?
I'm going to create this thing.
And that needs to be us.
So no, I do not like the process, but yes, it feels good to get it done.
And even better than that, it feels really awesome to get emails and phone calls on a regular basis from people who tell you that the message that you put out there is inspiring them, has made something come alive in them, I mean even this book that I just put out, The Table and the Dream, What to Do Once You Know You're Free, I'm already getting tons of feedback.
And it's funny because I talk about a lot of different things in there, so I get different responses from different people about how different sections have impacted them differently.
I have a section in there on meditation.
I've had countless people tell me already that the meditation has impacted them drastically.
Amazing encounters with God during it.
Helping them realize peace for the first time is a reality.
So, I mean, of course, that makes my love writing books.
I know the reason that I write books.
I write books for a couple reasons.
Number one, to help other people.
Number two, to crystallize my thinking and the things that God's been teaching me over time to help me process through it for myself.
And number three, I like letting people see how I think.
I get something out of that myself just Baring my heart and soul to people, people say, well, Jeremy, you're very vulnerable in the books that you write.
And I don't even think about that, because that's just kind of how I am.
I mean, the way we're talking right now, and if you were sitting here with me and we were having a conversation, I'm pretty much, that's how I am.
So it doesn't even occur to me that that maybe isn't normal.
I enjoyed writing books for those reasons.
Yeah, it's interesting, because I think, I write books for the same reasons you do.
And it is a lot of work.
I mean, people kind of joke with me about how fast I write books.
I like the process, I think, more than you do.
I feel like we have different gifts.
I truly am a writer.
That's what I love doing.
I love to sit down for days and write.
But I will tell you, it is a lot of work.
Denise and I have been working really hard on this most recent book now for three days straight.
Last night we were laying in bed.
I went to bed about 10 o'clock.
She looks at me and goes, Are you sure this is what you want to do the rest of your life?
Because it's been a long, grueling process.
But the thing is, I love doing it.
And I mean, she was just joking, but she was just kind of expressing how much work it is for us to do this.
Right.
Crank these books up.
But like you, you know, you get the emails and the feedback from people.
Yeah.
Who are really blessed by what you're writing.
They're encouraged.
Their eyes are open.
They're drawing closer to God.
And at the end of the day, that's what makes it worthwhile.
Oh, it makes it so worthwhile.
You said at the very beginning of this conversation that this book was in some ways a curveball, I think is the analogy you used.
And one thing I've discovered about myself is intuitively I accidentally discover kind of holes in the marketplace.
I see kind of niches that need something and I see people that need something that they don't even understand.
They haven't verbalized that they need.
But then when I finish it and put it out there, they say, oh, this is what I've been needing.
Does that make sense?
Yep.
And so that's what this book is.
This book is for people who understand for the first time that they're free.
Understand the message of grace.
They understand the message of freedom in Christ.
But they're just at the gate.
And they're saying, well, now what?
What does it mean?
What can I do once I'm free?
And there's a whole rest of a lifetime exploring and creating from that place.
I wanted to help people learn how to do that.
Well, I don't think that there is a book out there that I know of that anyone's written that talks about the opportunities that are given to people who realize what freedom is in Christ.
I don't think so either.
There's a lot of people who've written books about what freedom is, how you are free, but I don't know if anyone's written a book what to do once you know you're free.
Well, if you're like me, once you hear that you're free, you're like, well, that's awesome.
I believe it.
Okay, now what?
Now what?
Okay, that's super fantastic.
But this gate's boring.
I'll see you over there.
We're going this way, you know?
But there's a lot of other people out there like that.
And so I want to speak to them.
And that's directly who I'm speaking to, right at them.
Because I know what's going on in their heart and minds.
And that's where the body of Christ is headed.
That is the trajectory of where this one's going.
So you asked about other books I'm writing.
I'm working on one now.
I don't have a title.
Well, I have like three different titles.
Titles are overrated.
Yeah, I don't know.
I used to think that.
No, what I mean is it's important to have a good title, but having the title of the book when you start writing it is irrelevant.
It doesn't really matter.
I mean, Denise and I go rock, paper, shotgun all the time over what the title of a book is going to be.
Yeah, yeah.
You're working on another book?
Yeah, yeah.
It's a book on marriage, which, again, this is due to a need.
There's a lot of struggling marriages out there.
A lot.
And marriage happens to be one of my favorite things in the world.
I happen to have, in my opinion, the greatest wife in the world.
But, I'm sure everyone thinks that about their wives, so I'll say, the greatest wife for me.
We don't have a perfect marriage, but we have a really, really awesome marriage.
And, I mean, we've been at this thing, I don't know, eight years, I think?
2007, so a little bit of time.
And we've learned some things.
We've kind of stumbled into what I call the it's not worth it filter, or the is it worth it filter, which we could get in more, into more, but then the people wouldn't read the book.
No.
But it's really simple.
It's kind of a subconscious mindset to establish within oneself to prioritize, protect, and preserve the unity in marriage.
There's nothing more important than a solid marital relationship if you're married.
Nothing.
And really, I mean, that mirrors our relationship with Christ, too.
So anyways, I really have a desire to help people with that.
I don't know, just to help people have clarity about how to communicate, how to realize, and constantly return back to unity in marriage.
I think that's a great subject for a book.
I know I'm gonna love reading that book.
Marriage is a fascinating subject for me.
I imagine that down the road somewhere, Denise and I will probably write a book on marriage as well.
Right.
We've learned a lot.
We're older and we've Unfortunately for us, we've gone through some really bad valleys in the marriage process.
And we've learned a lot of valuable experiences.
I know you and Shannon have an awesome marriage.
You can just tell how the two of you exemplify what a good marriage looks like.
I think it's going to be a great book.
Cool, thanks man.
I really appreciate that.
Like I said, we're not perfect.
Our marriage is not perfect.
Applause, even though Jesus sees us as perfect, but one thing that we do really, really well is we work really well together as a team.
And, man, I don't know.
I just really want to see people that have decided to be married see it thrive.
It's like, there's so many books out there and so many people talking about, well, how to make your marriage work.
Like, work?
How to make your marriage work?
What about how to have a freaking awesome marriage?
How to thrive in marriage?
How to build an awesome life with someone that you love and like you actually enjoy?
Come on.
Making your marriage work is almost like how to repair a broken truck and get it to go to the grocery store.
Yeah, yeah.
And then this whole idea that marriage, the number one purpose and reason for marriage is to refine you into a better person.
Well, of course it does that, but come on.
No, it's not.
It's for life and enjoyment, you know?
And to have people that can enjoy and explore their dreams together, to raise a family, man, come on.
Marriage is supposed to be awesome.
It is supposed to be awesome.
And I'm with you.
The thing that I love most about Denise is that all the things that I do together with her She is a great teammate.
We just always tell each other, you know, we make a really good team.
Right.
It doesn't matter what it is we're doing, what project we're working on, whether we're going out to dinner or whatever, we have this ability to collaborate and to get on the same page.
And she has different ideas than I do.
She has different strengths and she has different perspectives, but she honors me, my ideas and my perspectives and values.
And I honor her.
And that makes for a team that just really does everything with grace and with singleness of mind.
It's almost like we have different minds, but at the same time, when we put our minds together, there's this transcendence.
We come up with something that's bigger than both of us together.
Right, right.
And I bet even when you're not together, that you are together.
I mean, I'm all the way across the country from my wife now.
I feel that way.
I absolutely feel that way.
life right now but I feel 100% connected to her like I feel like as I walk through this airport as I do whatever that she's a part of me and that what I'm doing we're essentially somehow doing together even though we're not together right we'll just work that's one I mean I feel that way I absolutely feel that way I never feel much of a separation from her no matter where I am you know physically you're now sitting in JFK yes sir in
And you're going to be there for a long time.
Uh, yeah.
What time is it?
It is 245 Mountain Time.
So it is... 445?
445 East Coast.
Yeah, I had an 8 hour layover here.
To jump on a 12 hour flight.
Yeah, it's going to take me 50 hours to get from where I started to where I'm ending.
That's a lot of traveling.
Oh yeah, it is.
It is.
It's not for the faint of heart.
And that's why I go with cool people that I love and travel well.
And don't stress you out.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, you really have to check your ego at the door.
You have to check, you know, all your, all of our addiction to modern luxuries and conveniences.
If you don't do that up ahead of time, then you're setting yourself up for some sort of meltdown.
It's funny this morning on my, I made like 50 mistakes and I'm just joking.
It wasn't really 50, but at least three pretty big errors this morning on my way out the door.
Um, because my schedule was off.
I live a pretty routine life and with my, with getting up, uh, fitness, with times when I'm in the office and things like that.
I do that because when I'm not, I'm all over the place and I make just tons of stupid mistakes.
I forget things.
So I built a life to where, um, I really make up for that.
And it's kind of a crutch in a good way.
It's how it helps me.
To be freed up, to be creative, because I put a lot of things on autopilot that would extract my decision-making abilities or my focus so that I can focus on being productive.
I can focus on things that don't necessarily come natural to me.
My creative mind can flow freely then.
You know, ideas can be birthed and it's just, it's great.
So this morning, you know, my schedule was off and it's off this whole time.
But, you know, one of the things I like about going to India is I don't arrange the trips.
I just show up to speak and to hang out with people.
So I get, you know, I get driven around and flown around and I just show up places and they're like, okay, Jeremy, here's the microphone.
It's time to speak.
I don't, and I know what I'm going to say already, or either that or the Holy Spirit will tell me as I go, one or the other.
So really, I get two weeks of like, free brain time, which is great.
But I mean, you know, but that's the benefit.
Now the downside is, my schedules are off big time, you know?
So I don't have the ability to decide when I do what, which is totally fine.
I just, but I know that going into it, and so I embrace it, and it ends up being a smooth time.
So there's a little travel tip for your listeners.
Yeah, I love the way you describe that, because I think I do the same thing.
I am a person of routine and habit.
I try as much as possible to have a pretty regular schedule of, you know, routine things that I do, because like you, I can't really afford to have my mind Focused on those things that I could, if I could just autopilot them, I autopilot them.
Yeah.
So that I can save my headspace for things that actually need critical decision making and creativity and thinking about.
And I guess I've never really described it that way, but that's kind of how I, my life is too.
Yeah.
I have a good friend who is a, I don't know whether he consider himself a grace preacher, but so, If he wouldn't qualify himself as that, then I apologize, but that's probably what people would refer to him as.
But he says to me, he's like, Jeremy, he's like, if I didn't know you personally, I would think that you were works-based.
You know, that you were religious and ritualistic.
He's like, but I know you, and he's like, you're as free as they come.
It's because I do things, and I am somewhat ritualistic.
Even with my relationship with God, I get up every morning, really early, just to prioritize and carve out time with God.
The freer I get, the more okay I am with that, because I know that that ritual doesn't contain God.
I know that that ritual doesn't earn me anything from Him.
I know that it doesn't get me any approval from Him.
But what it does, is it does give me that space to start out my day with him, to realize my unity with him, and start a conversation early on that carries over into my everyday life.
So, is that ritualistic?
Yeah, probably.
But is there any religion in it?
No, not one bit.
Seven habits of successful people.
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
And so, it's funny because like, you know, there's people who hear all this freedom stuff, And then anybody who's doing anything, they want to say it's, you know, you're not free, or it's worse.
And that's the whole point of my book, What to Do Once You Know You're Free.
Well, once you know you're free, you know it's time you can do.
Because you can do it from freedom.
No longer are you striving to gain your approval, you're no longer striving to gain your identity in what you do, and so you're not, like, working from your own efforts, but you're drawing from the infinite supply From Christ within you, which is infinite, right?
I mean, look at what you've done in a short period of time since you've come to know the Lord.
I mean, you have a great audience, you built a cool blog, you're podcasting, you're writing books, and you have more ideas than you have time to do right now.
You know?
And that's because you're tapping into Christ within.
That was a nice rant.
Oh, I love to rant.
Especially on a day like today where I'm totally off in a good way.
So if you want to ask me anything where I'll expose myself or whatever, I'll probably say things that I wouldn't normally say.
I don't know that I want to take advantage of your free mind time right now.
I'm just playing.
Denise is going to start throwing things at me here if I don't get working on my book, though.
Yeah, so when does that come out?
Well, we are going to try to hit the publish button tonight, actually.
Oh, awesome.
Cool.
She has the InDesign file finished.
She needs me to upload it to CreateSpace.
I need to convert that text to a Kindle file.
We're going to try to get this all wrapped up tonight.
We've still got a little bit of work to do, though.
Even hearing those words of those tasks makes me wanna... Dude, we are still working on a process of trying to find a way to take the finished print book file and convert it to an e-book file that works smoothly and seamlessly, and it's work.
Yeah, do you remember when I was publishing mine and I was contacting you?
I do.
That was a huge headache.
Yeah.
That's the headache.
Yeah, so, okay, so all you people out there who are writing books, just prepare yourself.
It is difficult.
It is very frustrating at times, but it is totally worth it.
Totally worth it.
Do not quit, just because it's hard.
Anything that's worth doing is going to have a little bit of challenge to it.
Yeah, if we quit because something is hard, then we would never do anything.
Ever.
Right.
We'd sit around and eat toast all day long and, well, do nothing.
I know.
Which sounds fun, but it'd be pretty unfulfilling.
All right, man.
I'm gonna let you go.
All right, buddy.
Thanks for having me on, and... Yeah, man.
Safe travels, and stay in touch.
All right, buddy.
Take care.
All right, man.
Thanks.
Bye.
Bye.
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