All Episodes
Previous Next
Oct. 25, 2025 - Project Camelot
02:19:52
Dr. John Brandenburg: Mars & The Secret Space Program
| Copy link to current segment

Time Text
Hi everyone, I'm Kerry Cassidy from Project Camlot and I'm here tonight with Dr. John Randenberg and it's not possible to have him on Skype or in video, but we do have him on the phone and so he'll be talking with us tonight.
He is a plasma physicist.
He's been working as a consultant to Morningstar Applied Physics LLC and as a part-time instructor of astronomy, physics, and mathematics at Madison College and other learning institutions in Madison, Wisconsin.
He has a very interesting background and I'm not going to read further on his bio here.
What I will do, however, is put it on the screen for you.
It's also, I believe, copied here on my website, but I'm going to introduce him to you.
So John, come on on the show and please say hello to everyone.
Oh, hello, Carrie, and it's a real pleasure to be on your show and a great honor.
Thank you.
Well, thank you so much.
Likewise, let me say, and it's just great to have someone of your caliber talking about Mars.
So this is what we're really looking for is individuals who have a point of view on what might have gone on in the past on Mars.
And I think my audience is basically very excited to have you on the show here.
So we do have a chat room, as I mentioned, to you before the show.
So I'm sure they'll put their questions in there as we go through everything.
So why don't you answer questions?
Right.
Excellent.
And why don't you, first of all, introduce yourself a bit.
Tell us about your background.
I am a theoretical plasma physicist by training.
I worked on fusion energy for my doctoral thesis at Lawrence Livermore National Lab.
It was part of an extension campus of UC Davis.
And so I got my PhD in 1981 and then went to Sandia Labs to work on direct energy weapons.
And while I was there, the Cold War became very severe.
And everyone, particularly the nuclear winter thing, came out.
And the nuclear winner was, interestingly enough, inspired by a dust storm on Mars in 1971 that covered the entire planet from pole to pole.
People did not think that was possible.
Then they found out the same thing could happen on Earth if there was a nuclear war.
And this would ensure that any survivors of the original nuclear war would then die of starvation or cold afterwards.
So it was a very dramatic time to be working at a nuclear weapons laboratory in New Mexico.
I was working on electron beam weapons at the time.
And then I became aware of the discovery of what looked like an archaeological artifact on Mars, the face on Mars.
And this was work done by Vince Sipetro and Greg Molinar.
And they did superb work.
They found there was a second picture that NASA had basically concealed.
And so they had two good pictures at high resolution of the object.
And they applied the best techniques they could of computer enhancement to the pictures.
And it looked like an object generated by the Mayans or the Egyptians.
And nearby, within about 10 kilometers, it was what appeared to be a five-sided pyramid, slightly larger than the face of Mars.
And So this was just astonishing to me that this had been found and I immediately grasped the idea that a discovery of this type on Mars could end the Cold War.
Basically could change the whole conversation on Earth from being about whether Marx or Thomas Jefferson was going to be taught in grade school to, you know, a joint mission to Mars by the United States and Russia.
Basically, that the human race would turn its eyes outward to the cosmos rather than staring at each other in a very threatening way.
So I joined this investigation at some risk to myself professionally.
I was a young physicist without a reputation and in some people's eyes this made my reputation suffer, but I would do the whole thing over again because I wanted to do something about the Cold War, which was in a very extreme state of tension at the time.
And so what happened basically is we investigated and we also found a separate archaeological site at a place called Galaxis Chaos and it had two faces, one of which looked very similar to the face in Cydonia.
All of this is detailed, by the way, in my book called Death on Mars, which came out in 2015 by Ventures Unlimited Press.
So it's called Death on Mars by John Brandenburg.
And I discussed my whole role in the investigation.
An independent Mars investigation team, as it was called, was formed by Richard Hoagland, including Vince DiPetro and Greg Molinar and myself and a bunch of other people.
And we basically verified, they verified that DiPetro and Molinar had done a superb job in enhancing the pictures using the primitive computer image enhancement techniques of the time and that everything was pretty much as it looked.
Looked like pictures of heads generated by the Olmecs in old Mexico.
And so it looked like there were the remains of a fairly primitive kind of Bronze Age or Stone Age civilization like the early Maya, the Mayans or the ancient Egyptians.
And that this was the discovery of the age.
And we also discovered that it appeared to be on the shoreline of an ancient ocean at Sidonia Menza and also Galaxis Chaos, that they were basically coastal cities or ruins of coastal cities.
And so we talked about the ocean.
We went up to the case for Mars 2 and presented a paper there showing what we'd found.
And we talked also about not only archaeology, but also the ocean.
And this one Mars scientist told me later, he said, we don't know what to think about your pictures, but if you could, why don't you just give a paper just on the ocean of Mars?
And so I did that.
And the idea just took off.
And fortunately, Wikipedia does give me credit.
I'm referenced number one on the paleo ocean of Mars.
People don't give me credit now because of my involvement with the Sidonia Menza controversy, but that's okay.
Credit I can get from a bank.
The important thing is I did what I felt was the right thing.
And I'm very proud of the fact that both the controversy of Sidonia Menza and also Galaxis Chaos and not only that, but the Mars ocean and the idea of biology on Mars, an Earth like Mars in the past, that these are ideas that are still very much current.
And everyone is aware of them of these concepts.
And what's interesting is that, well, Further investigation, I mean, I was working at a nuclear weapons lab, and I was investigating Mars, and I was standing in line for a Xerox machine.
That's what people did in those days back in the 80s.
And I was mentioning that my, I was looking at the Martian isotopes.
Now, you can do considerable forensics using what are called stable isotopes.
Xenon gas has five stable isotopes.
And by looking at the distribution of those isotopes, you can do forensics on what was the source of the xenon isotopes.
For one thing, a natural nuclear reactor will produce one distribution, you know, being fission of uranium.
And a nuclear weapon, which is the fast fission by using fast neutrons, will produce a quite different distribution, particularly peaked at xenon-129, that particular isotope.
Now, as it turns out, Mars is unique in the planets of the solar system that xenon-129 dominates its xenon.
Normally, xenon-129 and xenon-131 are normally balanced one-to-one.
But on Mars, xenon-129 is two and a half times more than the xenon 130, I'm sorry, it's 132.
So, John, what does that mean to the layman?
What is the significance of that?
What it means is it means the same thing as finding powder burns on somebody's clothing after they've been gunshot.
It means that somebody fired at close range.
Basically, it is a sign that a massive nuclear weapon-like device went off on Mars.
So, now we have two completely different lines of evidence that there was intelligent activity on Mars.
And unfortunately, the isotopes indicate intelligent activity of the worst possible sort, that Mars was basically a Hiroshima.
Somehow, two massive nuclear weapons were set off on Mars.
We found radioactive residues at two areas, one near cytonia Menzo, one near Galaxis Chaos.
This is all detailed in the book Death on Mars.
And also, I presented it at various places, especially the Seeker Space Conference.
So, there's people can access stuff on the net this evening.
And I also have a website called lifeonmars.pub that shows all of this evidence.
So, basically, it appears that Mars was very Earth-like at one time with an ocean, that it was Earth-like in every possible way.
It had a humanoid civilization, which was primitive.
I mean, that's the best interpretation I can make at this point.
And then, for reasons unknown, someone dropped two massive hydrogen bombs on these bombs were as big as the Empire State Building on Mars and completely wiped out the civilization and all life on that is the story of Mars as best as can be told right now.
So, what do we have a year for these explosions?
They look to date from the time when Mars still had an ocean, a liquid ocean, and so they would probably be roughly 250 million years ago.
Millions.
A quarter of a billion years ago.
So, whoever did this is long gone.
And we probably believe that cosmic karma has caught up with them by now.
Well, actually, that would be a presumption, wouldn't it?
I mean, if they nuked Mars, they may actually have come to Earth after that.
That's true.
Let's not jump to conclusions too quickly here.
Yeah, but the only thing that Earth went through what's called the Great Permian Extinction roughly the same period.
When most of the life on Earth disappeared for completely unknown reasons.
It was called the Great Permian Extinction.
And what year is that claimed to be here?
That's roughly a quarter of, let's see, I'm trying to think.
It's roughly the same time period, roughly in terms of fractions of a billion years.
There was also the Great Precambrian Explosion where life suddenly became very diverse on Earth.
So there was a number of things going on during that period on Earth that were, there were no, you know, there were no vertebrate animals at the time on Earth.
Everything was vertebrates.
So, I mean, it is interesting.
Earth was a very different planet than it is now.
Right.
Now, some of your data is coming from, I assume, what we call ancient archaeology.
And I don't know, you know, what your background is in that, you know, sort of field.
But do you, you know, in other words, you're kind of borrowing information that's agreed.
Yes, I am.
I am a theoretical plasma physicist.
And I basically, like some people have asked, well, how do you know the civilization was primitive?
Couldn't it have been advanced and made the hydrogen bombs themselves?
And all I can say is that based on the fact that things that look like these objects on Mars were made by primitive civilizations on Earth.
You know, the Mayans and the old, you know, early Egyptian civilization.
That's my basis for saying it looks like a primitive civilization.
Okay, but.
I don't actually know what its technological level was.
All right.
Well, I mean, it is interesting.
It could have been advanced.
I mean, why are you saying that ancient Egyptians were primitive?
That's a new.
No, no, no.
No, I mean, they didn't have cell phones.
Well, maybe they didn't need them.
Maybe they had something.
Maybe they didn't need them.
Yeah, I know.
It's.
You know, I mean.
I am being very presumptuous.
Okay.
Just about any scientist, if they're, you know, especially if they're wading into something controversial like this, you have to have a little bit of audacity.
Sure.
In order to do these things.
Things.
So I will freely admit that I have taken the best shot I could at a hypothesis that I felt I could defend to other scientists.
But it could be completely, it could be wrong.
Well, I am curious.
I could have misinterpreted the level of technology of the Martian civilization.
I am firmly convinced that these are the remains of a dead civilization on Mars.
But I do not know the technological level.
It looks, it looks primitive.
But I don't know.
Okay.
Well, what, I mean, the face, my understanding of the face on Mars is it doesn't look primitive, actually.
But, you know, I guess it depends on your kind of definition of what's primitive.
Your definition of primitive.
I believe, you know, it looks to me to be quite eroded, as I would expect if it was very, you know, has been lying exposed for millions of years on the Martian surface being exposed to it.
Isn't that in and of itself indication that it's not primitive, that it's anything that it would endure?
Well, like, yeah, the pyramids of Egypt, just to cite a terrestrial example, are not primitive at all.
Right.
They were done with extremely sophisticated mathematics.
If you go out and try and build a pyramid and put one together together, it's most likely it will turn into a pancake of rock in a few thousand years.
And the Egyptian pyramids are still standing.
They haven't developed any structural deficiencies.
They'll probably be standing 10,000 years from now.
Absolutely.
So a longevity of a structure indicates a certain sophistication, wouldn't you say?
Yes, it does.
Yes, it does.
And there is a five-sided pyramid near the face of Mars.
Right.
And it's obviously been standing there for the same amount of time.
And it looks as though somebody took pre-existing landforms and shaped them.
But we don't know.
They could have been built by brick by brick.
Mars gravity is, of course, weaker than Earth's.
It's about 40% of Earth's.
So you can move large rocks easier on Mars than you could on Earth.
But yeah, I don't want to offend anyone by suggesting that the Egyptians or the Mayans were not, in their own way, very sophisticated people.
But as a scientist, one tries to propose things that are, let's say, I can defend to other scientists.
All right, well, I mean, what about Jack Zachariah Sitchin's work?
Have you read it?
And are you, did you?
I'm aware of it.
I have not read it.
I know that certain aspects of it are controversial in terms of his way of methods of translating the ancient tablets.
But, you know, his suggestion that there was a tremendous amount of extraterrestrial contact in ancient times between the human race and, you know, human race and extraterrestrial was in contact with extraterrestrials in ancient times.
If we're not alone in the universe, then that's quite a reasonable possibility.
And this would explain certain legends where about people sounding like they're wearing spacesuits giving instructions to people how to do things.
Absolutely.
I mean, what years, between what years were you at Lawrence Livermore Labs?
Because I actually know someone, one of my sources, who also worked there.
And I'm just curious.
I was there from 75 to 1975 to 1981.
I was there when the neutron bomb was invented.
That was an interesting moment.
People would come up to me breathlessly and say, John, we've got this bomb, and it just kills the people, but it leaves all the valuable stuff intact, you know, factories and roads and buildings.
And I sensibly would just sit there and drink my coffee and smile and nod.
It would say these things.
So that's when I was at Lawrence Livermore.
I was working on magnetic fusion energy and also laser pellet fusion.
And that's, in fact, where I learned about hydrogen bomb physics because laser fusion is basically a miniature hydrogen bomb.
So they use a lot of proven physics from hydrogen bomb tests to try and make that work.
And so anyway, so I was there at Livermore during a very exciting, kind of interesting time.
And well, what about Teller?
Did you meet Teller?
Were you working with him?
Oh, yes, I met, got to meet Edward Teller several times.
Okay.
Have you ever heard of something called Shiva Nova?
Oh, yes.
The Shiva Nova was an ongoing project when it had just started when I arrived in 1975 to begin my graduate studies.
I found it kind of annoying because the people involved with the Shiva Nova, I was working on magnetic confining plasmas and magnetic fields to get hydrogen fusion.
And we've been working on that for some time and made a substantial amount of progress.
But we've been working on it for about 20 years.
I mean, you know, I was joining an effort that had been going on for many, two decades.
And the laser fusion people had just started.
And they would tell me that, as usual, people come up to me breathlessly and tell me things.
And these people came up to me and said, You don't even need to worry about magnetic fusion anymore.
We're going to solve the fusion problem, you know, as soon as we get our laser built, which is next year.
And of course it didn't work like they intended.
It turned out to be a lot harder than they thought to focus a bunch of laser beams on a pellet and then crush it into a crush it into a star, basically.
Nature knows how to do stars.
Just look at the night sky.
But they're big.
And once you start making things really small, a whole bunch of things change.
And so the Shiva Nova was kind of ongoing, an ongoing project all the time I was at Lawrence Livermore.
And year after year would arrive and they hadn't achieved fusion energy like they claimed they were going to.
And I remember I was out jogging with my friends and we jogged by the big office building by Shiva Nova.
And there was this big raven sitting on the corner ledge of the corner office.
And I joked, I said, that's probably the office of the head of the project.
And it turned out it was true.
Oh, wow.
All right.
We would jog by every day, and there would be this big raven sitting right outside this guy's window and apparently banging on rapping, tapping on his window, going nevermore.
All right, well, he had to leave after claiming, you know, he basically claimed that they would get fusion energy, you know, net fusion energy within a year or two.
And then it became obvious they were nowhere near what's called break-even with laser fusion.
In fact, they still haven't achieved break-even.
So it's turned out to be a very hard problem.
It turned out to be a much harder problem than they thought.
Well, actually.
By the way, the magnetic fusion, the tokamaks, that works pretty well.
All right, but I am curious, you know, because I specialize in witnesses from Above Top Secret, and I know you've got security oaths and all that.
But if we were to speculate on the notion of whether Shiva Nova, what you knew about it, and what might have gone, as they say, when a project goes black, you know what I'm saying?
What do you think?
Because it also sounds like maybe this is something Cernus is also involved with.
Well, I know that Congress is quite upset with the Shiva Nova people claim, you know, because Congress, they basically made these claims to Congress when they were asking for appropriations.
And Congress, the Congress basically gave them a deadline to achieve, you know, fusion energy, net fusion energy, break-even.
And they failed to meet it.
And so Congress is, I don't know what's going on.
We know that hydrogen bombs work there, Gary.
We know that.
All right.
So you can go out in Nevada and create hydrogen bomb explosions quite that guy quite good at that.
And, you know, so, and they made them smaller and smaller.
Now, I don't know how small they made them.
All I know is that when you atomic, a hydrogen bomb is driven by an atomic bomb going off.
You know, all of this used to be classified.
Now it's no longer classified.
So you set off a small atomic bomb and then that creates a field of radiation that by radiation pressure basically crushes a sphere of hydrogen isotopes and achieves, turns it into a star.
That's how a hydrogen bomb works.
And so the radiation output from a small atomic bomb is much different than that from a laser.
Is it?
Okay, to jump back to Mars, because I think this...
To jump back to Mars, yes.
Would you say then when you're analyzing what you think are the telltale signs of this sort of battle that took place on Mars, or at least maybe even two battles?
Well, it looks like it looks to me like it was an extremely one-sided battle.
We do not find a bunch of small areas of radioactivity as you would expect from a nuclear war.
If, you know, what we find is two very large hotspots indicating two massive weapons dropped apparently from outer space.
Okay, what about the idea?
I mean, I've got no idea about this, but what about the notion that an asteroid used as a weapon, you know, shot at a planet, you know, impacting, would that create radiation or no?
No, that would not.
All right.
Mars is close to the asteroid, is closer to the asteroid belt than the Earth.
In fact, Mars basically forms the inner edge of the asteroid belt.
The gravity of Jupiter is constantly stirring the pot of the asteroid belt so that the asteroids are slowly migrating outward from the belt.
And some of them crash into Jupiter and then some of them crash into Mars.
And those that miss Mars end up being meteorites on Earth.
But so Mars is getting hammered with asteroids from the asteroid belt.
It has a much higher rate of impacts than Earth.
And you're saying we found a big impact zone near Sidonia from a, it's called the LEO Impact Zone.
It's spelled L-Y-O-T.
It's a French pronunciation.
But that doesn't seem to be, that would not have caused the radiation hotspots at all.
Okay.
You know, I have a whistleblower, Captain Mark Richards, and I just got back from my interviewing him again.
I interviewed him in prison.
He's in prison in Vacaville, California.
And this is my seventh interview, as I said.
What is he in prison for?
He was framed for a murder that he claims he was actually off-planet, and that wasn't a good defense.
And they framed him because.
Sorry.
No, no, it's fine.
And, you know, actually.
This is a novel defense.
Yeah, and his wife is also someone I've interviewed, and she's out on the circuit talking about his information.
He comes from a long line of individuals.
His father and grandfather were both involved in the secret space program and also working with Tesla, as it happens, and that's documented.
Oh, yes.
So he's a really interesting guy.
Anyway, the reason I brought him up is because he tells me that there is a way of shooting, if I understand this correctly, a neutron star through a wormhole at another planet and causing a great deal of destruction.
Now, if such a thing was to happen, would you end up with the kind of damage you're talking about on Mars?
Well, if a neutron star is very close to forming a black hole, you would not expect there to be a Mars planet Mars left at all if a neutron star had passed Earth.
All right.
This, you know, and by the way, people have asked me this.
This looks like Mars, it's a situation.
If you look at the isotopes, you look at the radioactive hotspots on Mars, and you look at evidence of shockwaves and molten glass in these hotspot areas.
It looks like Mars was hit by massive versions of nuclear weapons that the human race could build.
So some people have said, well, why would an advanced civilization just use simple hydrogen bombs?
Wouldn't they use something more sophisticated?
And I said, I don't know.
I know that, you know, gunpowder has been around for a long time.
We still shoot guns at each other.
And so these, so it looks like the weapons used on Mars were basically massive versions of hydrogen bombs that have been built on Earth and tested.
There's no evidence of like a neutron bomb, a neutron star, or some other astrophysical.
Okay, but what about you said a neutron bomb?
Obviously, we've created that.
But it also doesn't decimate the buildings, right?
Right.
These bombs apparently went off up in the atmosphere.
And there's a specific reason, like both Hiroshima, the bombs that hit Hiroshima and Nagasaki both went off in mid-air.
And the reason they do that is to maximize the shock damage to buildings.
If you set off the bomb when it hits the ground, a lot of the energy just goes into the ground.
But if you set them off in mid-air, a lot of the energy then goes to making a shock, big shockwave.
And so this looks because there's no big crater at the two radioactive hotspots, it looks like these bombs went off in mid-air over the surface of Mars.
So, but is it clear that, in other words, not that they were shot from one part of Mars to another part of Mars the way we would look like that at all?
It looks like it came from off-planet.
Right.
The weapons were roughly the size of the Empire State Building.
Right.
And to launch them from the surface up into the air, that's kind of impractical.
But it's not impractical to build them in outer space if you are some very advanced race and then just drop them on the planet.
So that's fascinating.
Yeah.
That's what it looks like happened.
You know, in some sense, I'm playing detective here.
Sure.
Absolutely.
We have the murder weapon.
We've identified the murder weapon.
And we think we know how it was employed.
You know.
Okay, now, I have a young boy.
I think I mentioned him to you.
His name is Boriska.
He's actually not a young boy anymore, but back in the day when in the early part of Project Camelot, I don't know if you ever saw the interview, but Boriska claimed to be in Russia.
You know, he's a very bright child who grew up and I think it's seven years old.
He was, you know, they talked about him in the, I think it was Pravda and other newspapers in Russia, but the word got out to the West that there was this young boy who had what appeared to be total life past life recall of an of a life as a soldier on Mars.
And he talks in my interview.
We flew to Russia, made a special trip to interview him.
It's one of the most famous Project Camelot interviews.
And I do highly recommend that you watch it.
He is and was extremely exceptional.
There's a scientist who was also with him on the interview in the same location with us, a very interesting man.
And he apparently, I believe, has been tracked by the Russian secret space program and so on.
But his story was that there was a, they were trying to make a sun out of Jupiter, a second sun.
Oh.
And so I'm wondering if there was some relationship between the battle you think took place and if there's any information about the angle at which these bombs would have hit the planet.
That's a very interesting question.
The impact zones, you know, the radiation zones created by the bombs appear to have been so that they would be upwind of Cydonia Menza and Galaxis Chaos, so the fallout and shock waves would be most intense.
But I will be perfectly honest with you.
The scenario about the scenario that would have caused an advanced people to drop two hydrogen bombs on a primitive people on Mars was probably quite complex.
I don't know what the scenario was, but I believe when we go to Mars, we will find records that discuss that somehow that this conflict arose between Mars and some other group.
And they'll probably provide us, you know, one of the reasons we should go to Mars is and have people dig, do a classic archaeological dig, is to find out what happened.
Why would anyone do this?
Well, battles.
And so I think the scenario that we're seeing the end results of a scenario that played itself out millions of years ago, and the scenario was probably very complex.
But we have, you know, all we have is just basically, you know, a dead body in some shell casings.
And we don't know, you know, what the motivations were, etc.
I will freely admit that we don't know most of the story of what happened on Mars.
We don't know most of the story.
We have to go up there and find out what happened.
I appreciate that.
Now, let me ask you again, because this is sort of what I do and where we go, but it has to do with the notion that we have documented by whistleblowers that I've interviewed over these years, and now I've been doing this over 11 and a half years.
So I've interviewed a number of people who have substantiated the fact that we have a secret space program and that we have a base on Mars and on the moon and that we have a group of ships that go basically interstellar, but there's a sort of patrol group called Solar Warden.
Have you heard this information and what do you think about?
Yes, I have.
I can't really comment because I will simply say that I don't know how far we have advanced the human race, but I do know that we will eventually achieve these tech.
If we haven't achieved these technologies already, we will achieve them.
And I believe that is the future.
The future of humanity looks like Star Trek, basically.
And so I don't know what the present state is, but I know that that will be the end result.
Okay, well, let me ask you an interesting question that I often ask people in your position.
In other words, you worked, it seems, for, you know, kind of correct me if I'm wrong, but you worked at some level of a space program of a sort or something.
I worked on the Reagan Strategic Defense Initiative.
Okay, so Star Wars, which is all right.
My whistleblower, and actually several whistleblowers, claim that Star Wars was a cover program for basically a defense initiative against intruder races from other planets.
I have certainly heard that.
And I believe there is I think that that is something that should be seriously considered.
Well, are you, were you, did you have those kind of secret clearances?
Oh, I never had any clearances that would have allowed me to, you know, I basically just heard rumors while I was working with the Pentagon.
All right.
Because you do make an interesting story.
I'll tell you, basically, I became convinced that there was a UFO cover-up going on when I worked in Washington, D.C. I was really quite convinced that it was real.
And I heard a lot of rumors around the coffee machine and in the halls.
And what I did, my response to this was to write a science fiction novel called Morningstar Pass, The Collapse of the UFO Cover-Up.
Okay.
And the subtitle is Absolute Secrecy Creates Absolute Power.
Absolutely.
Absolute Secrecy Creates Absolute Power.
And we know what absolute power does to people.
All right.
Yeah.
That's, I mean, that's fascinating.
I want to read your books.
And I'm very.
Yeah, so I decided that since I had, you know, let me put it this way.
On Mars, we have all of this data supplied by the U.S. government.
Everyone agrees that the data is this, blanky blank.
Pictures, isotopes, etc.
As far as the UFO cover-up, I complained to one of my friends who was a ufologist.
I said, his name is Don Ecker.
And I said, Don, the problem with this field is there are no facts.
Yeah, well, that's the way it is.
All we have are reports, you know, some of which are dubious, some of which are dubious, some of which are obviously bogus.
And, you know, basically we just have a bunch of reports, and we don't have any agreed upon, you know, kind of data.
And so when I decided to talk about the UFO cover-up, I decided to write it as a science fiction scenario.
Well, and you're not the first one to do so, obviously.
And I think that's a great choice.
Myself, I'd like to make sci-fi movies for the same reason.
Absolutely.
I wrote this under the pen name Victor Norgaard.
All right.
And I spent a very happy three days in Paris at the end of the Cold War.
I promised myself a trip to Europe when the Cold War ended.
And so I spent three days in Paris and then another day in Brussels and then a couple days in England and really had a great time.
And I was passed through a railway station called Gare de Noor in the era.
And I'm sure you've been there.
Yes.
And so I thought I would make a great pen name if I just rearranged it.
So I turned it into Norgard.
Oh, lovely.
Sounds very kind of Nordic because I'm half-Icelandic.
And anyway, in this novel, I have, you find it's interesting.
I have two heroines.
They're both newscasters, like at CNN or Fox News or something like that.
And they both want to be taken seriously as journalists.
And they bring down the UFO cover-up.
Oh, excellent.
They do it.
Well, I've got to read your book, obviously.
Maybe I'll get some pointers on that.
Well, what was not only interesting is a lot of people read this and said, gosh, you've really captured the whole UFO world very well and what may be behind it.
And then they also said, and we really like the women, the women characters.
Excellent.
Several women said that, that they really liked the two women characters.
So I was, so now I've written a sequel, by the way.
Oh, lovely.
In fact, I've written, it's the first, Morningstar Pass is the first book of a trilogy.
And I'm finishing the, you know, I've just, I finished, we're finishing the trilogy, but I have got the second sequel to Morningstar Pass is out on Kindle.
All right.
Well, I'm going to look for this book, or all these books, actually, and I encourage my listeners to do the same.
And we'll see if we can also list them in our Camlot store.
I'm doing a slightly updated version of the sequel.
I found a bunch of typos in it, of course, so I fixed those and I'm putting a different cover, slightly different cover on it.
And the new cover is To Rule the Night, the UFO War, and it's and then the subtitle is not in Kansas anymore.
Absolutely.
We're not in Kansas anymore.
You know, we are hell and gone from Kansas.
I'll drink to that.
Listen, I want to know if you know a scientist by the name of David Adair.
The name sounds familiar, but I don't, I've ever met him.
It sounds like you guys should talk.
I mean, he claims to have created, if I understand it correctly, a fusion engine.
And that he said he did it at the age of 19.
And the secret space program absconded it and also brought him on board.
Rascals.
Yeah, I mean, he's a fascinating guy.
He's actually really brilliant.
And I've interviewed him several times now.
And I highly recommend my interviews with him.
Of course, I'm prejudiced, but I have to say that my interviews are much more cutting edge than you'll get anywhere else.
So I think that you would really enjoy hearing what he has to say.
And he's a very smart guy.
He's actually, I think he's located somewhere on the East Coast.
You know, he kind of is something of a recluse at this point.
I don't know if he'd call himself that, but he did have a very interesting experience to relate how when he was quite young, taken into Area 51 as a result of his success with this fusion engine.
And he encountered basically what appears to be a downed type of a UFO that had a fusion engine in it that was quite advanced and was artificially intelligent and sort of a biologically aware engine.
Oh, oh, yeah.
In my novels, I have, you know, them bringing in, I have a scene where they bring in the very best and brightest students from like MIT and, you know, Caltech and everything to look at all this captured UFO stuff, to try and make sense out of it as best they can.
And someday, you know, there are, if we're not alone in the universe and some of the rumors are true, then yes, the U.S. government and also the Russian government have captured a bunch of extraterrestrial stuff.
I'll tell you one amusing story I heard when I was in Washington, D.C. was that the United States had tried, had tried to basically have some kind of contact with the UFO aliens.
I mean, there were several groups, and so they ended up talking to these little short gray guys who assured us they were staunch anti-communists, apparently.
It was the middle of the Cold War.
And this is celebrated in Close Encounters of the Third Kind, you know, the big meeting at the very end.
Oh, yeah.
So that's apparently that book, that movie was kind of celebrating a secret meeting between the government.
And then it was shortly after that was followed by the movie Alien.
So all you have to do is watch those two movies back to back.
And you can kind of, at least this is the story I heard, is you can get an impression of the US government's success or lack thereof in dealing with the extraterrestrials.
If you watch the movie Close Encounters, then they had this nice meeting and everything like this.
It's just evil hour.
And then in the movie Alien, you find that things did not turn out well at all.
Exactly.
Fascinating.
And so, you know, there was even rumored a big firefight between the government and the aliens at a place called Dulce at Archuleta Mesa.
But all of these things are rumors.
Who knows whether they're true or not?
Well, given your background, you must have, I mean, look, you were Livermore Labs.
A lot of secret projects were taking place at Livermore Labs.
Now, whether you had access to them or not, you know.
Well, the work I did was pretty straightforward, laser fusion, you know, trying to design pellets that would work at Shiva Nova.
And I worked for a rather eccentric scientist who he was very interested in Russian designs for laser pellets.
And so we were basically trying to get those to work.
And that was the extent of the really kind of classified work I did at Livermore was basically just laser fusion.
I understand.
Well, you've made a statement.
Now, you hear interesting rumors around the coffee machine.
Let me put it this way.
Well, you've got to have friends.
There was like the rumor, you know, the discussion of the neutron bomb.
And but the real access to a real boatload of information was when I was working on Strategic Defense Initiative.
Right.
The Star Wars program.
Then there was so much smoke, you thought there has to be a fire here.
Absolutely.
And you're standing there in the hall drinking coffee with these people.
There's so much smoke in the air, hardly anyone can breathe.
And then you say something like, it's a little smoky in this room.
And they say, what smoke?
And so you have to have a sense of humor about these things.
And, oh, but here's the other interesting story: is that the Russians, apparently, from the very beginning, assumed that anything unidentified flying over Russia was American.
Right.
So if they saw a UFO, they would just scramble all these MiGs and roll out all these guided missiles and try to shoot it down immediately, just like the U-2 of Gary Powers.
And the story went that eventually they succeeded in bringing after losing a whole bunch of MiGs.
And, you know, the Russians were very brave, in some cases, kind of foolhardy.
And they brought down finally a craft.
And then they, of course, sent a bunch of helicopters in with the commandos to cordon off the area.
And they pried open the hatch and looked inside.
Yeah, Amerikinski.
These aren't Americans.
Which was apparently a big shock to them.
I guess I'm Americans in there.
And it was not Americans.
Okay, they were not Americans.
What were they?
Well, they were little gray aliens, I guess.
Oh, right.
Okay.
Very cool.
The Russians were really puzzled by this.
And they decided, though, that the Americans were in cahoots with these little gray aliens, so it didn't really change anything.
So the Russians were very just extremely hostile to do any kind of UFO kind of phenomenon.
And tended to shoot first and ask questions later.
Right.
So they took a completely different course than the Americans did, which was to try and, well, you know, we had two groups of people and they have two different cultures.
And one group basically reacted very hostily to what it felt was an intrusion from outer space.
And the other group was also sort of hostile, but then kind of was kind of interested in maybe talking to them or something.
And so anyway, so you just, it's just part of the human story that different cultures will react differently to outside stimulus.
Sure.
Now, you made a statement.
I'm just going to read part of it here.
I don't know where this came from, but you said scientists cannot connect the dots at Mars because the resulting picture is far too terrifying to accept.
What did you mean by that statement?
Oh, this finding a dead civilization on Mars is quite terrifying to a lot of people.
Even though that civilization is dead, they, in fact, it's my understanding the U.S. government basically wants this to come out.
Not officially at this point.
Right.
But someday it will basically be official.
They'll just, there'll be kind of a notice that the U.S. government, yes, is actively exploring.
You've heard recently, it was July 19th, that Congressman Rohrbacher on the Space and Science Committee had the bunch of NASA scientists there testifying and they were talking about progress on Mars exploration.
And he basically said, oh, I have one last important, this is the most important thing.
He says, is there a dead civilization on Mars?
And the scientists kind of all looked at each other and didn't want to answer.
And he said, can you rule it out?
And they said, we think it's extremely unlikely.
So apparently these, you know, the book and the other work by other people has finally reached some kind of critical mass in Washington, D.C., where the Congress is now aware that there is a possibility of a dead civilization on Mars and that NASA is kind of keeping it quiet.
Of course, NASA's just following orders.
But I believe that they want this to come out.
I agree with you completely.
Right.
It's kind of a timed information release because the government has to basically inform the American people that we're not alone in the universe.
And the best way to do it is to find a dead primitive civilization on a nearby planet.
It's not threatening.
Yes.
People did not look, they did not have big bangs or horns on their head or anything like that.
They look pretty much like human beings.
It looks like it was a primitive, it looks like it was a primitive civilization.
You know, we don't know how we don't know with real level.
It just looks primitive.
And they're dead.
So they're not any kind of threat to us.
So this is the way the government, I think, has chosen to reveal that we're not alone in the universe.
The fact that they may have been wiped out by massive nuclear weapons, the government may take a little bit longer to talk about that.
Okay, yeah.
I mean, I've got actually pulling up that Rohr Brackbacher information.
Oh, good, good.
Yeah, just for people to see it on the screen here.
There's other information as well that we're coming across.
Well, Mike Pence used a very peculiar phrase.
He said, we're going to have American boots on the face of Mars.
And you can imagine astronauts, you know, planting a flag on the forehead of the face on Mars, Just like the flag waving at the flag raising at Iwo Jima, that that's our goal now.
So he used the phrase, the face of Mars, which is the standard name for the face of Zidonia.
Right.
But you know, there has been, since, you know, Ho Glinden and the rest of you came out with this information, the photographs, there's been a huge cover-up since that time, wouldn't you say?
Well, the biggest, one of the ugliest days of science, in my opinion, was when they took the new picture with the Mars Observer, or not a Mars observer, it was, I think it was Mars Surveyor, and presented it to the public and they deliberately kind of fuzzed it up.
Right.
They just laid it back, you know, and so it looked like the face of Sidonia was just a pile of rocks.
What we did is Mark Carloto, just a brilliant imaging scientist who worked with us, he took the picture from JPL and enhanced it and then also used it to combine it with a 3D model from the Viking pictures to rotate it.
By the way, they took the picture from an oblique angle, so it was basically viewed from the side and it was viewed at morning, whereas all of the Viking pictures had been the afternoon from straight above.
So it looked very unfamiliar.
But he found there were nostrils and the nose.
The face basically looked, and this is also in the book Death on Mars.
When we saw what the picture really looked like, it was, in fact, oh, by the way, Dan Golden saw the pictures immediately.
We provided that we had a back channel to Golden's office.
Okay.
So they eagerly wanted to get what we found.
And so we supplied, so they knew immediately that we could basically confirm there was a dead civilization on Mars rather than debunking it.
And but you got to remember something.
A lot of people are very, very disturbed and alarmed by the idea of a dead civilization on Mars.
They don't, they want to believe that it's nothing.
Well, we're, I mean, I think that's an interesting point of view.
Where do you get that idea?
I mean, what makes you think that?
Because I haven't come across that.
Journalists, well, people have told me that they found the whole idea quite frightening.
What kind of people have told you?
Scientists?
Scientists?
Yeah.
A minister, you know, a religious person.
And just everyday people have told me that they found the whole idea of finding a dead civilization on Mars to be quite frightening.
And so you basically have a bunch of like journalists, hard-boiled journalists who normally would never trust the government to tell them, you know, would never take anything the government would tell them at face value.
And they display a childlike credulity when the government starts talking about, you know, the face at Sidonia and the face of Mars.
And they won't ask any questions.
And right.
Well, I wonder.
It's just the fact that they're very cynical and distrustful of the government when it talks about things on Earth, but when it talks about stuff up in the sky, they tend to just want to just believe whatever the government says.
Well, yeah, that is interesting.
They certainly are, well, from my point of view, appear to be extremely programmed to accept whatever the government tells them.
And I think that programming has extended to other matters in general.
I mean, there's evidence.
I don't know.
Did you ever know Brian O'Leary?
The ex-Israel.
Oh, yes, yes.
I had met Brian many times.
Okay, well, There's a young man in a San Diego newspaper, apparently, wanted to write a story about Brian while Brian was still alive.
He's obviously passed on.
And he was investigating his background and his record of teaching at Caltech.
And he found that they had tried to erase all evidence of Brian ever teaching at Caltech.
Yeah, and very funny, right?
And make him disappear.
Exactly.
Oh, yeah.
Well, this is the government we know and love.
Exactly.
In my novel about the collapse of the UFO cover-up, there's one phrase that keeps popping up, and that's your secret, this is your secret tax, your secret government tax dollars at work.
Exactly.
Well, Catherine Austin Fitz, maybe you know her name, has documented this very thing.
Well, the U.S. government, I saw news clips of testimony for Congress where the Defense Department said it couldn't account for like $1.5 trillion.
Well, actually, Rumsfeld, I believe, the actual $300.
If you give me $1.5 trillion, I can build you a secret space program that would really be impressive.
Well, you know, I guess you don't know who William Tompkins is, I take it.
No, I don't.
Okay, he is a Navy.
No, it only took $24 billion to get to the moon.
And so if you have $1.5 trillion to spend, you could probably go to Alpha Centauri.
Oh, well, speaking of Alpha Centauri, yeah, absolutely.
I have some information from some guy that's contacted me about that.
Yeah, absolutely.
You know, no, it's a lot more than $1.5 trillion, though.
more like, well, I think Rumsfeld, the figure from him was something like three trillion.
What's a few trillion among friends?
Right.
And that was several years ago.
Our national debt is like 18 trillion.
And that was several years ago.
So at the time.
That was several years ago.
So we don't even know how much it is now.
Absolutely.
And you have no idea how lucky we are to live in a country where we can even discuss this stuff in places like Russia or China.
If they have a classified space program, you talk about it.
You could easily end up in a labor camp for the rest of your life.
Well, maybe, maybe not.
I mean, I know that UFOs are taken more seriously by the Russian government, and they do encourage people to, you know, sort of talk about that and report it.
Valery Uvarov, have you ever heard of him?
No, I've never talked with her.
Yeah, it's a guy, actually.
It's a Russian name, Valerie.
But at any rate, he is a very interesting scientist who's worked on a number of secret projects over in Russia.
I interviewed him while I was over in Russia, and he's, you can look him up on the internet, but you can also watch my interview with him.
Fascinating guy.
You know, he was talking about them building nine secret pyramids outside the city of St. Petersburg for various experiments and, you know, so on.
But he did talk about investigations into, he was sort of head, I think he was at one time.
I don't know what he does now, but sort of head of the KGB, what you call the weird desk, the way Ron Pandolfi, I don't know if you know Pandolfi is.
All these organizations have a weird desk and the people in charge.
Exactly.
They get to find out who they are.
Well, in your current job, it says you're sort of a way.
I encountered, you know, Drawing Pandolfi and I've had many conversations.
Really?
Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
Oh, I would love to be a fly on the wall of those conversations.
Well, I mean, they were pretty strange.
That was why, you know, I, by the way, it was partly why I decided to write a big science fiction novel about the whole thing.
Well, I think that's a great way to go.
I'm definitely going to read your book.
By the way, William Tompkins.
Not for the faint-hearted, by the way.
All right, fair enough.
Again, I just want to say that William Tompkins died just recently.
For those that are listening who don't know already, I guess there was a statement by Bob Wood who put out information about sort of what happened.
He had some kind of brain tumor at the last minute that seemed to have killed him.
But I have quite an extensive interview with William Tompkins.
He claimed to, I believe he was in 93, but I could have, you know, I'm not sure exactly.
Yeah, it sounds like he lived through a grand, you know, a grand old age.
Yes.
He has to be old for a spy.
Well, actually, he wasn't a spy.
He was an aerospace designer, engineer, and was very involved in the Apollo program and so on.
He was probably involved in Site-51 stuff, too.
Right.
And he claimed he reports to Bobby Ray Inman.
Oh, yes.
Well, yes, Bobby Ray Inman, an interesting character.
All right.
Yes.
So you know him.
I heard tapes of him, you know, where he didn't know he was being recorded talking about this stuff.
Oh, fascinating.
And then, well, then I heard the tapes of him talking about it.
And then suddenly he was up for defense secretary.
And tapes circulated around Washington, D.C. of him talking about flying saucers, recovered flying saucers.
And so he very quickly withdrew his name from consideration.
Ah, interesting.
So it was, you know, loose lips sink ships.
And in this case, you know, his career was at least his, you know, instead of ending up being defense secretary, he ended up running some big government company to develop chip technologies.
Right.
He was an interesting character.
Well, he's still alive, is my understanding.
Oh, okay.
Well, Bobby Ray Inman.
He served his country well, but he made the mistake of talking freely to somebody who happened to be carrying a hidden tape recorder.
All right.
Well, that's an interesting point of view.
I'm not so sure that that really did damage his career in any way.
It says that he was director of naval intelligence.
He was also Defense Intelligence Agency Vice Director until 77.
And then director of NSA.
I mean, you know, and then at some point.
Very, very stellar career.
Yeah, deputy director of CIA.
I'm not so sure.
I mean, some of these leaks seem to be a bit purposeful.
Now, of course, you're going to have a speaker.
Remember John Glenn going on, you know, astronaut John Glenn, you know, astronaut senator.
He made some interesting appearance on some show.
I can't remember what it was.
It was like Mork and Mindy or something like this.
I don't know.
It was some show that people, everyone watched it.
A very popular show.
And he was on there for like five minutes basically talking about how we weren't alone in the universe.
I think I remember that.
That was a long time ago.
Yeah.
I didn't expect that.
And so, you know, it's all kind of the U.S. government is basically letting this, you know, it's not an open, it's an open secret.
And in one sense, the UFO cover-up is one of, as a cover-up, is one of the least successful enterprises.
It's one of the least successful cover-ups that has ever existed in history because the main secret of it has been kind of common knowledge for a long time.
And but that's a great question.
I discussed that in the science fiction novel, by the way.
I just, you know, in fact, I have one Russian character say, well, we should be glad the Americans have this UFO cover-up.
It was, because now the secret is getting out.
He said, it's a, no, it's a woman.
And she says, if the Russians, if the Russians, only the Russians knew about the UFO thing, they would keep it secret for, you know, a billion years because they're Russians.
Interesting, yes, perhaps.
They have a much longer conspiratorial heritage than this kind of.
Well, it would seem that way, although there is a, you know, are you familiar with remote viewing and sort of Sci-Tech, what they call Sci-Tech?
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Have you ever done any of your stuff?
It's what's really interesting is that I made the hilarious discovery that, see, when we were doing the Independent Mars Investigation Team, the headquarters of it effectively was in an SRI.
Oh, really?
San Francisco Bay Area.
Right.
And we were always puzzled that the SRI, through kind of some kind of internal RD program, had funded that some of their scientists were working on this Sidonia Menza stuff.
And then I found out recently that the SRI being the headquarters of the IMIT, you know, the Independent Mars Investigation Team, was right down the hall from the remote viewing.
Absolutely.
Fascinating.
So the funny thing was that we had always, all of us had wanted, well, we hope the U.S. government will get interested in this stuff and take it seriously.
We didn't realize that, you know, the whole thing was just down the hall for the remote viewers.
The remote viewers were absolutely convinced that we found a dead civilization on Mars, apparently.
It came out later.
They were totally behind us.
And so, you know, so that was good.
You know, and Stubbelin, what's his name?
Put off.
Oh, Hal Putoff.
You know, Hal Putoff and I both work on unified field theory.
And he's a brilliant scientist.
And so he was involved in all this remote viewing.
And I never got to meet him when I was doing the Mars stuff.
But apparently, they were just down the hall from where all this Mars stuff was occurring.
So in other words, the U.S. government was absolutely fully aware of the scenario on Mars.
Sure.
In fact, probably understood it since 1976.
Or earlier.
They first landed on, when they first took the pictures from Cydonia Menza, and especially after they took the second picture of showing the pyramid in the face.
And then they sampled the, when they landed with two different landers and sampled the atmosphere, it saw the Xenon 129, they were able to put together the whole scenario fairly quickly.
Right.
What happened, in fact, is when I discovered that there was nuclear weapon signature in the Martian atmosphere, I reported it immediately to the DIA.
And we had con put a back channel to the DIA, and so we reported it to them.
And they didn't say anything for six months, and then they got back to us through another back channel and said, go ahead and publish.
So they wanted us to publish.
Well, that's good.
They want this to come out.
Absolutely.
How do you account for the craft that have headed to Mars and gone off course or had things go wrong with them constantly?
Oh, Mars is, you know, it's farther away from the sun.
And If you're a spacecraft, like if you send a plan something to Venus, it never really gets that far from Earth.
But if you send something to Mars, you can end up with situations where it's on the other side of the sun from you and you have no contact with that spacecraft.
And you can't, if it gets in any trouble, you can't help it.
And so Mars is just a Mars is where the big boys play.
The Russians gave up on Mars after a while because they lost so many spacecraft there.
You know, they failed.
So many missions failed.
They didn't have very good computers.
So they concentrated on the planet Venus.
And they achieved finally landing on Venus and taking ice color pictures of the surface.
And it was a very impressive technical achievement.
But Venus is a lot closer to Earth.
It doesn't get as far away from it.
And so you can control things better.
Okay, so you don't subscribe to the notion that these sort of so-called technical errors in so many of the probes, et cetera, let me tell you a little story.
Of course, we launched the, there was the there was the Mars there was a Mars polar lander and then a Mars kind of atmospheric probe and that was this was like 19 more
like 2005 or something like this.
They launched JPL launched two probes to Mars and they both failed.
And one, you remember, they said, oh, it's because we've got kilograms and pounds.
Yes.
That's right.
Which I find difficult to believe.
They did a mid-course correction on the way to Mars.
And I was part of the Clementine mission to the moon.
And when they would do a mid-course correction, it was like having a baby.
I mean, everyone would give reports, you know, before and after, you know, they would know exactly what had happened.
And, you know, you just couldn't imagine jet propulsion lab missing the fact that they had gotten their pounds and kilograms mixed up.
It's it's it it's it strains credulity to say the least that they would make a mistake like that.
And then the second of that pair of probes was the polar lander and they said it landed on it tried to land on Mars but got its by software error software error decided that the altitude of the Martian surface was 300 feet lower than it actually was so it shut off its engines 300 feet in the air and crashed.
It's very convenient, isn't it?
And so now here's the real punchline.
Here's the really funny part.
This is hilarious.
One person was in charge of both of those probes.
His name was Alachi.
Ah.
And they not only did not fire this person, they promoted him to be head of.
And this was regarded in the circles I work in as with just amazement.
And also with people, you know, who, like me, were aware that the government was covering up stuff at Mars with a certain sense of certain hilarious merriment.
And Alachi had obviously been we thought something went wrong with both somebody was sending us a message.
Well, I mean, isn't that that the person who received the message was Ilachi and he was then promoted to be head of JPL to basically so he wouldn't talk about it.
Well, not only that, but you know, if somebody's going to take the blame for something, you got to give them something in return, right?
Yeah.
So it's like I get it.
So the captain of the United States of the Carpathia or something and it ran aground someplace.
And so he's made the head of the shipping line.
Instead of being court-martialed or something like this, this guy is given a promotion.
And so it was pretty funny.
Well, it sounds like what might have happened to Trump, you know.
You got a rich guy there.
Stay off controversial.
Stay off controversial stuff.
I was for Sanders.
I didn't have much money last year.
And what?
I sent $80 to Sanders.
Okay, but, you know, I mean, it is a conundrum how Trump got into office and there are different...
Oh, I thought he was going to Lucas.
And, you know, I was certain of it.
And so anyway.
Well, I don't know if a lot of people are.
In fact, I have heard the statement that Bozo the Clown could have defeated Donald Trump.
But they didn't run Bozo the Clown against him.
Like I said, I was for Sanders.
And I decided I had no dog in the fight after that.
You know, I think I voted for one of the libertarian candidates.
The guy didn't know where Aleppo was.
All right.
Well, what about, do you know who Kit Green is?
Oh, yeah, I remember him.
He's a kind of independent, independently wealthy guy who is.
Are we talking about the same guy?
No, Kit Green works.
Well, Kit Green works with Ron Pandolfi.
He's a lot of people work with Ron.
All right.
Well, he may be independently wealthy, but he's also a doctor.
He's used on a lot of investigations to do with, well, you know, MK Ultra type stuff and stuff related to ETs and abductions and crash retrievals and this kind of thing.
Oh, yeah.
Well, sure.
Well, you know, it's interesting.
Once you're kind of moving around in that world, you end up with an interesting resume.
Absolutely.
So what do you think about MJ12?
That's one of the reasons I wrote a science fiction novel.
I decided to confine my discussions of the UFO phenomenon in a science fiction novel was that, you know, I tried to put some of the humorous stuff.
You know, different agencies stepping on each other's toes.
Well, I can't wait to read it.
I can't wait to read it.
So anyway, so I have a lot of that and, you know, different agencies chasing each other out of various projects, you know, saying, you can't, this is our, you know, this is our area.
You got to stay out of it.
Right.
Well, so did you ever have a conclusion about who runs the game?
Would you figure it was Navy intelligence?
Oh, I don't know.
Okay, so you wouldn't speculate on that.
The whole thing looked very confusing to me.
Right.
And in fact, if you read a book called The Day After Rosal by Corso, he basically says that at one point in the early 60s, the programs had the UFO programs had become so compartmentalized that nobody knew what anybody was doing anymore.
The situation just generated complete chaos.
You know, the CIA FBI, all these different agencies, and none of them would talk to each other.
And so, well, in fact, then he, you know, he describes how they ended up with his file cabinet full of stuff and didn't know what to do with it.
Yeah, well, I've got a he basically then would take each of them in an envelope with a little piece of junk in it and burn it out to some, you know, Bell Labs or somebody, you know.
Right.
The general basically told him, I want this file chair and all its contents to go away.
Get this problem out of our office.
Yeah.
Very interesting.
Well, there's a lot of commercial programs that like to get their hands on these so-called problems.
Oh, I know.
Of course.
And would you say, what is your job right now?
I mean, can you say basically just a part on it?
So is this what do you consult on?
Oh, I consult on rocket engine technology and things like that.
Well, is this, is this, what does that even mean nowadays?
Rocket.
I mean, where are we going with that?
Isn't that antiquated, rotten rocket engine technology?
Oh, no.
I work on electric rocket engines.
I have an electric rocket.
I have one of my big electric rocket engines sitting in my living room.
It's kind of a conversation piece.
Oh, yeah.
With sculpture, yeah.
So are you working with Elon Musk?
I mean, you're consulting someone like that?
I'm not.
How about Bigelow?
No.
Any commercial, is it commercial ventures?
Are you consulting the government?
What do you?
Oh, the government.
You know, I do pretty mundane stuff.
But I have attended conferences, though, dealing with this new electromagnetic drive, which is basically anti-gravity.
Right.
Which they discovered, quote unquote, down in Houston, Texas, the Johnson Space Flight Center.
Well, sure.
And you're dealing with Hal Pudoff, who's also got a great interest in this area, right?
Oh, yes, yes.
Hal.
Oh, and by the way, Hal read my novel and liked it.
Oh, excellent.
That's a good referral.
Called it War and Peace, which is, he says he's a Russian American.
That's a great comment.
Wow.
Work.
And so anyway, it's a – so I have some interesting consulting work.
Well, you sound like a really smart guy.
It's it's it's really great to talk to you.
What I'd like to do, that's my cat in the background just losing his mind.
He just okay, go ahead, good.
I know what Cat.
No, no, no, it's all right.
There's not much to be done about him.
He just missed.
I was gone for a few days and he just kind of loses his mind.
But I want to ask the people in the chat to give me some questions for you before we wind this show down.
It's really been great fun talking to you.
And I think it's been great fun being on this show, Terry.
You ask wonderful questions.
I wish I could answer all of them.
I appreciate that.
I don't know very much.
I'm not so sure about that.
When dealing with the living intelligence in the cosmos, the same thing that they say on Wall Street also applies in this area.
Those who say don't know.
And those who know don't say.
I think that's true.
And so I wrote a science fiction novel about the whole UFO cover-up simply because that was the best way to handle it.
I wrote a science book about Mars because there we had real data I could talk about.
And, you know, so I'm very proud of both pieces of literature that I did.
And so it's been a wild adventure.
You know, I'm just finishing the third book of this trilogy.
Oh, excellent.
Which is, you know, the two, the sequel and this third book, you know, deal with the aftermath of the collapse of the UFO cover-up because in the novel, and this is,
and this is really fascinating, by the way, because in order to write a novel about a UFO cover-up, you have to realize that that's what we call the UFO cover-up is the relationship between the human race and other species in the neighborhood, stellar neighborhood.
Yes.
And you have to capture what they think about the situation.
How do they understand what's going on?
So I postulated in the book that we were the center of kind of a Romulan neutral zone set up to kind of keep a bunch of surrounding extraterrestrial powers from kind of getting in each other's business.
Oh, that's interesting.
So we were in the center of this Romulan neutral zone.
And then I discovered it was real.
There's what's called the local bubble.
It's a region of space that was very comparatively few stars in it.
And it's because apparently just about exactly where the sun is now, there was a massive star that blew up and it cleared out this whole region of space of gas and dust.
And, you know, Alpha Centauri and Proxima Centauri and Sirius and all these stars were left.
And the sun then formed from the ashes of this big explosion.
And so we are in the center of a kind of empty region of space.
And I realized that that was the neutral zone I put in the novels.
That's very interesting, that idea.
Yeah, it was.
Well, I got kind of chills when I suddenly was looking on an astronomy webpage and saw the local bubble, and I realized, oh my God, that's the neutral zone in my novel.
And so, you know, in the sequels, I try to give an impression of what the other extraterrestrial species are thinking about what's going on at Earth.
Well, I think that's great.
Do you feel that you got downloads?
Do you feel, you know, Sitchin claimed that he was in contact with Enke, who dictated some of his books?
Oh, well, no, one reason I decided to write science fiction is this feeling that science, when you're writing science fiction, you are kind of channeling something.
Yeah, I can't.
You're channeling the future.
And I had, you know, I had the distinct impression that if I wrote a novel about the UFO cover-up, it's a science fiction novel, I would understand it better and I would understand where this whole situation is going.
And I sort of kind of, you know, I kind of believe that now.
And yeah, well, that's fascinating.
I mean, that's what art is supposed to do, is supposed to sort of posit a possible future.
Yes.
And so that's what I did.
And, you know, and not only that, but, you know, I people would come up to me and say, you know, I really like your characters in this novel.
And what was funny was I made these two women.
The thing is, the guys in the novel are kind of special forces characters.
Right.
A lot of them.
And they don't talk a lot.
Okay.
But if you have two women, they talk about everything.
Right.
Cool.
So they verbalize everything really well.
And so I decided that was one great way to, and I was at a university, so I would actually sit at the student union and eavesdrop on tables full of women students, you know, co-eds talking to try and capture how women talk to each other.
And it was just fascinating.
You guys are so clever.
Well, we are supposed to be a step ahead of the male.
You guys are definitely three steps ahead of us men.
And you're so clever.
And you're so very aware of irony that compared to you, compared to the fact that I tried to capture that in the novel.
Several women said that I captured it pretty well.
Oh, that's great.
So that was fun.
That was a fun aspect of the book.
And but it's a parts of the book are also pretty horrifying.
So I'll tell you that.
Someone wants to know about a GPS system on Mars.
Does that?
Oh, well, they'll definitely have one.
If they can put one around Earth, they can certainly put one around Mars.
Right.
That's not a problem.
Fair enough.
Someone else was asking something about the Vrill.
Are you familiar with the Vrill?
And do you have anything?
Yes, I am familiar with the Vrill.
Vrill energy.
Any thoughts about that?
Well, Vrill, the whole concept of Vrill was invented just at the same time that Maxwell had invented the electromagnetic field.
So Vrill is basically electromagnetism.
It's kind of a poetic, and then the Vrill craft are basically using electromagnetism to modify gravity.
So it's the Vrill craft are basically, you know, that people talk about are basically field unification kind of driven spacecraft.
Okay.
And I work on that.
I published a book called Beyond Einstein's Unified Field.
And it's got a picture of Einstein and Tesla on the cover.
Cool.
They didn't get along very well, but they ended up.
Here's a funny story I heard.
World War II started, and so Tesla had an idea for hiding ships from radar.
So he apparently put a whole bunch of Tesla coils on a ship because it makes plasma.
And then he made the ship disappear from radar.
Apparently, it also kind of created some kind of space warp or something, you know, the space portal.
Uh-huh.
Well, that sounds a lot like the Philadelphia experiment.
It was a Philadelphia experiment.
And so the government naturally asked Einstein to join the project.
The problem was Einstein and Tesla did not get along at all.
Tesla was kind of an eccentric character, and he thought Einstein's ideas of curved space-time and stuff were complete nonsense and told him so.
So they ended up working on this project.
Probably hated every minute of it.
Yeah, that's very interesting.
Absolutely.
Oh, anyway, so that, well, so that was just one interesting story I heard.
And by the way, the idea of putting a bunch of Tesla coils on a ship to try and hide it from radar, that's something they would try.
They would absolutely try that.
It was World War II.
Sure.
And there's all sorts of, there's stuff that's still classified from World War II, a lot of it probably having to do with anti-gravity.
Or inadvertently, they're just trying to stop radar and they end up creating a space-time portal.
Yep.
Well, that, yeah, that where the experiment linear accelerators are supposed to be creating, you know, portals, from what I understand.
Well, I mean, you know, you're ending up dealing with quantum mechanics and electromagnetism and quantum mechanics.
And that's all very kind of mysterious, but nobody really understands that stuff.
Well, Feynman, one of my favorite scientists.
Right.
There's probably a dozen people on this planet who understand general relativity, which is Einstein's theory of gravity, black holes and things like that, he says.
But nobody really understands quantum mechanics.
Are you familiar with Jack Sarfati, the physicist?
Oh, yes, yes, yes.
Do you know him?
I call it Wolfman Jack.
Yeah.
He occasionally goes on tirades against various people.
I've even been included in those.
Oh, have you?
Okay.
And no, no, Jack is a brilliant guy.
Right.
Very interesting guy.
Well, I'm trying, I'm going to, I'm going to interview him sometime.
He's made very important contributions to these discussions.
He basically insists that if people are going to talk about like gravity modification or electromagnetic field, that it must still satisfy what we know.
We know that general relativity, Einstein's theory of gravity, which also relates it to electromagnetism in a very basic way.
We know that that has to be operative because it's been well tested now.
And so Jack's, one of Jack's crusades is to make sure that when people are talking about possibly modifying space-time with electromagnetism, I imagine that space-time is fundamentally electromagnetism.
That's what that's its essence.
And then by applying electromagnetism that we make that's artificial, we're creating like an interference pattern between what exists in space-time and the applied fields so we can kind of change space-time by changing the electromagnetic fields.
And so I work on that.
And so does Jack.
And Jack basically is the, you know, kind of state policeman patrolling the highways, making sure that people do things right.
That in the end, you still have to satisfy general relativity.
And that's, that's a big, that's very important.
Okay.
That's very important.
Well, I don't know.
There are some people that say Einstein was wrong, you know, about a lot of things.
Oh, I think, no, I think Einstein was pretty much right.
Really?
Remember, Einstein was working for the last 30 years of his life on trying to unify electromagnetism and gravity.
And that was his last great effort.
So even he was trying to move beyond what he had done.
But his theory of general relativity, you know, that postulates black holes and the Big Bang theory of the universe and all these things, it's been very, very well verified by experimental work now.
It's solid.
In fact, there's only one theory that unifies gravity and electromagnetism, and it produces equations of electromagnetism and the equations of general relativity from the same principle.
And this is Kaluza-Klein theory that has this hidden fifth dimension.
And what falls out is just Einstein's theory of general relativity.
And when Kaluza and Klein postulated the theory back in 1929, everybody knew what Maxwell's equations of light and electromagnetism, how they worked pretty well.
They had radios and stuff like this, and even they started even making television at that point.
But people didn't know whether the equations of general relativity were correct, yet they fell out of the theory as and they fell out of the theory coupled with electromagnetism.
So this is very important.
And so we can take Einstein's theory of general relativity as kind of a good foundation to build on.
In other words, it's not the whole story, but it is certainly a foundation, a firm foundation to build on.
And so that's the work that I'm doing.
I make sure that general relativity is part of it.
That that's kind of interesting.
Okay, well, what about what the Germans were involved in, you know, and what has been said about the craft that they were building, et cetera?
I mean, you got to remember the Germans, you know, the whole Third Reich was kind of a madhouse.
And so parts of this is reflected even in their science.
I mean, they put Werner Heisenberg in charge of their atomic bomb program, who invented the uncertainty principle.
So he basically turns it into a big science project.
And so they never did produce an atomic bomb.
And I'll tell you something else.
You know, Werner von Braun invented the V-2 rocket.
They spent more money on the V-2 rocket to drive bombs on London than we spent on the atomic bomb project.
That's where their priorities were.
Yeah, that's an interesting, it's interesting.
Well, you got to watch my interview with Tompkins and see what you think about what he has to say.
He's a very interesting guy.
And I wonder if it wasn't, that wasn't some kind of a cover program, because there's a certain stupidity in that whole, you know.
Oh, well, they spent, you know, it looks like they spent an enormous amount of money and resources on trying to harness anti-gravity during World War II.
And the problem is they didn't have a power plant that they could power it.
So.
Well, what about the hinge and the counter-rotating spheres?
Well, my own experimental work indicates the Tesla fields, which are rotating electromagnetic fields, three-phase, that that is part of the secret for gravity modification.
I've published that.
And they were apparently doing that, and they were rotating these mercury, you know, bell thing within all this mercury with rotating Tesla fields.
And the problem is the mercury gets hot and boils.
So then you get mercury vapor.
And it's very poisonous.
So it drives everybody insane.
And then they die.
So they had a very high staff turnover.
It was all done in an atmosphere of great desperation and reckless.
The way I've, what I've read about it, you certainly wouldn't want it to have been a scientist working on these projects.
Okay.
Well, that's very interesting.
Obviously, Gary, it didn't win the war for them.
Well, you got to look at Project Paperclip.
They just moved over here.
That's all they did.
Oh, I know that.
Just like Werner von Braun was picked up and became a part of the American scientific establishment.
Sure.
But they it was.
They might have lost the battle.
I wonder if they won the war.
You know, there's a lot of people that Jim Mars, for example, that has written books, Joseph Farrell as well, claiming that we're basically living with the Fourth Reich at this time.
Well, I don't know.
I don't know about that.
I don't know.
You know, when 1984 rolled along in the Cold War, people said, oh, there were a certain group of people that said, oh, the communists have won the, we are living in 1984 now.
Well, they should have waited somewhere that we don't really realize they've taken over.
And of course, then the whole communist thing system fell apart.
And so I just I, you know, well, I mean, you got to look at the death of Kennedy as, you know, a coup.
And if you've got a secret space program, you've also got a secret government.
You can't have one without the other.
Well, of course.
And I have that in my novel.
You know, that they have a whole secret kingdom.
Right.
So, listen, there's somebody here wants me to ask you about Phobos.
Oh, okay.
I'm curious what you think about Phobos as well.
I've got something to say about that, but go ahead.
Oh, what did they want me to say?
Well, they just want to know what you know about Phobos.
Anything?
Oh, well, I'm pretty well convinced that Phobos is just a natural moon of Mars.
I mean, we have one moon and Mars has two.
And in fact, Jonathan Swift, who was a science fiction writer who wrote Gulliver's Travels, he in typical, you have in typical science fiction fashion, you know, basically predicted that they find two moons around Mars in his book.
It was like 200 years before it was actually done.
Well, that's cool.
I just, I just, the Phobos and Deimos, you know, they orbit right in the equator of Mars.
And so, you know, they make a bunch, they make eclipses on Mars every day, turns out, especially Phobos.
You can see the shadow of Phobos moving around the planet all the time.
And the landers, the Viking landers, one of them actually saw, experienced eclipses from Phobos.
So.
Do you know who Clark McClellan is?
You know, it doesn't, it looks like just kind of an asteroid.
In fact, some people think it's a captured asteroid.
I don't think so.
I think it's just left.
It's part of the leftovers in the box that, you know, well, according to some of my secret witnesses, Phobos is what they call a command and control center.
Well, it can be both a chunk of rock and be burrowed out completely by some ancient race and made into a space.
It's a ready-made space station.
Right.
I mean, when human beings go to Mars, we're going to convert Phobos and Deimos into basically space stations.
So that's just a given.
All right.
They're so convenient.
Yeah.
You know, why build a space station around Mars when nature's already provided two of them.
And so if we go to Phobos and we find there's all sorts of tunnels and things like that in there, that will surprise no one, basically.
Okay.
I said, okay, you know, great.
I mean, to hear you say that.
That's logical.
That's good to hear.
You know, I think it's already been done, but that's another matter.
Another person has a very interesting question here.
Are you aware of any ancient nuclear explosions on Earth?
Well, there's evidence.
I'm aware of some evidence for nuclear explosions, a place called the Henda Daro in Pakistan.
And it may be mentioned in the Bagfa Gita, you know, that there was some kind of nuclear war there.
A bunch of extraterrestrials basically arrived, split into two groups, and then had a nuclear war.
Obviously setting a very bad example for the inhabitants of this planet who've been messed up ever since.
And so there's that.
And then there's also a bunch of place where there's green glass called, it looks like something called trinitide.
Trinitite is a green glass made from when nuclear explosions go off.
Oh, yeah.
And there appears to be large areas of Trinitide on Mars, by the way.
But also on Earth, they find what looks like Trinitite at this Mohando-Daro place in Pakistan, but also in the Sahara Desert.
There's a lot of it.
And they thought that this was due to maybe an asteroid impact or something like this.
But, you know, it's very so there's some evidence.
I wouldn't say it's very strong evidence, but there is some evidence that there were nuclear explosions on Earth.
Have you ever heard of Amarna?
No.
Oh, well, that's Nefertiti and Akhnaten.
Oh, yeah.
Amarna is the valley that they created.
They're sort of sort of a utopian type civilization said to me.
They exist back then.
No, I wasn't aware of.
There's a whole, I've been there, actually, and if you look around, it basically looks like a nuke has they nuked the entire place.
It's kind of reduced to dust more or less.
Well, remember that not Tutankhamun, but Akhenaten, you know, he tried to convert Egypt into a monotheistic society.
Right.
And there was a very powerful reaction to that.
Ejecting that.
You know, the priests of the other gods who were left out of this thing felt really cheated.
I mean, this was their whole gig was, you know, I've got this god and he needs to be serviced with his temples and stuff.
And you're telling me, you know, we're going to get rid of all these gods and just have one.
And, you know, they just couldn't accept it.
And so when Akhenaten died, there was basically a very powerful reaction against his religion.
Well, right.
And Tutankhamun was brought by the priests back to Luxor and, you know, started, reinstituted everything that they'd done before.
Yeah, they basically restored the old deities and they may have destroyed everything that Akhenaten did.
Yeah, there are several places that they destroyed it.
There are several places in the Middle East that it's even also, I think it's somewhere near Galilee, actually, where there's evidence, appears to be evidence of a nuclear war that took place in that area.
Well, you know, there's the account of the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah.
Right.
You know, and so it's a, we don't know.
Not only do we not know what happened on Mars, Gary, we don't even know what happened on Earth.
Yeah.
Yeah, I hear you.
And that's.
That's a pretty sad.
That's a pretty sad comment on our state of knowledge right now.
We don't even know what happened where we live.
Well, let me ask you one last question.
Then I'm going to let you go, and I hope we can have you back on the show.
Yeah, we've been keeping you a long time here.
One last question.
That's wonderful, by the way.
Thank you.
I really have enjoyed this.
Excellent.
Well, so have I, and I think my listeners as well.
So listen, Antarctica, you must have heard all the stuff going on down in Antarctica.
Do you have any thoughts about any of that?
Not really.
Let me put it this way.
The U.S. government has freely provided an enormous amount of data about the planet Mars, including the fact the U.S. government did this, by the way.
They released all these pictures of the face on Mars and Sidonia and stuff like this.
They made it freely available to everybody.
They also then investigated this Mars meteorite and found life signs, basically told everybody that early Mars had life on it.
And, you know, that evidence is pretty convincing, by the way, especially at this point.
And so the U.S. government has basically been pretty, you know, I'm sure there's pictures of stuff on Mars that they are keeping under wraps, but they've already basically told the basic story with all of these pictures they've released and all this data.
You know, the xenon isotopes, you know, that tells the whole story about how Mars died.
The ALH 8401 tells how Mars started life.
And the pictures from Cydonia Menza, and they basically explain why to anybody who is interested that Mars was a lot like Earth, including having its own people living on it.
So it's all of the stuff from Mars.
But if you try and find out stuff about Antarctica, for instance, or the Arctic, you'll run into these places are not just places of mysteries.
They're places of secrets.
There's a lot of classified military activity.
I'm convinced that I know there's a lot of classified military activity up in the Antarctic.
And there's probably there in the Antarctic, too.
And so I basically expose stuff that is kind of classified.
If the government wants to talk about Mars, great.
And that's kind of not classified, but that's a different planet.
But the government doesn't want to talk about stuff in Antarctica that it may be worrying about, then I basically just say, okay.
So you're not speculating, in other words, about what I'm not going to speculate, no.
Sure.
I know that both poles, polar regions, were a focus of a lot of military activity during the Cold War and even during World War II.
Right.
And so I'm used to, oh, I'll tell you, I'll tell you one funny story.
I'll leave you with one funny story.
Every once in a while, a big chunk of ice will fall out of the sky.
And I mean, these chunks are big.
They're like 30 or 40 pounds.
And they'll wreck cars or put holes through roofs or something like that.
And it always occurs on either the West Coast or the East Coast.
For instance, I was in Florida.
Here I am at the Space Institute at the University of Central Florida.
And this big chunk of ice fell out of the sky and knocked a hole in the guy's roof of this guy's car.
Wow.
And I thought this was very interesting.
And I thought, well, because some people had suggested there could be ice meteorites from outer space.
So I told the fellow, I tracked down from the news the phone number of the person whose car had been destroyed by this chunk of ice falling from a clear blue sky.
No airplanes visible, nothing.
And so I called up his house and said, you know, and I got his wife on the phone and I said, you know, I'm from the university and we can, we can, if you've got a chunk of that ice, there'll still left.
And she said, yeah, we have a chunk in the freezer.
And I said, you know, we can do run tests on the ice and see if it's really from outer space or something like that.
And I heard her, you know, kind of put down the phone and then I heard this kind of muscle conversation.
And she came back to the phone and she said, after about three minutes of this long, kind of multiple conversation, she says, I'm sorry, my husband is not interested in anybody testing this ice.
Really?
Well, that's unfortunate.
I realize, oh, my God, it's probably some classified airplane, you know, that in order to hide in the sky, it doesn't make a contrail.
Because the water vapor from jet engines, you know, I mean, you can hide an airplane from radar, but all you need, and the Russians, by the way, were experts at this.
There are all sorts of other ways to spot airplanes besides radar.
One of the simplest is just have people watching with binoculars, and if they see a condensation trail from a jet engine putting out exhaust of water vapor and carbon dioxide, you could just basically figure out where the airplane is by just looking at the contrail.
So it is possible people have figured out how to stop contrails.
And what they will do is try and retain all the water vapor from the exhaust.
And I'm just speculating completely.
But obviously, this doesn't work very well sometimes because these big chunks of ice fall out of the sky occasionally in places like Berkeley, California and Seattle, Washington.
And then it happened near, you know, Orlando, Florida.
So every time a chunk of ice falls out of the sky, the FAA says it's going to investigate, and then you don't hear anything more about it.
Right.
Fascinating.
Well, you know, I think what it is is there's a guy who sits in an office at Lockheed Martin in wherever Lockheed Martin has its headquarters now, I guess, in Chicago.
And every time he sees in the news that a chunk of ice has fallen out of the sky and caused trouble, he goes, damn it, and marks it on the map and just says, okay, well, something went wrong.
That's actually very interesting.
I've never even heard anybody mention that.
Oh, yeah.
No, check out big chunks of ice falling out of the sky.
All right.
A lot of times it's clear blue sky.
Wow.
Suddenly this big chunk of ice, you know, 30, 40 pounds will fall out of the sky.
None of them have killed anybody that I know of.
They break things and they make holes in the ground.
And then the FBA keeps saying it'll come and investigate.
And it does.
And then you never hear anything more about it.
Right.
Kind of like the people.
What's that?
Kind of like the people that disappear every year from national parks.
Well, there's all sorts of weird stuff going on all the time, but this is one little weird area.
No, it is fascinating.
This appearances.
But what it is, is it's a series of investigations that apparently are ended by somebody phoning up.
They get a phone call from somebody saying basically, don't bother investigating this.
We know what this is.
And by the way, this is not, airliners, you know, they generate blue ice from their sewage systems.
And occasionally those will fall out of the sky.
But people don't, people don't put that in their own freezer.
Right.
These are clear blue water, you know, just almost pure water.
So anyways, that's just funny.
So I, you know, I did call this guy and tried to see if we could get a sample of this ice.
And oh, no, no.
So they apparently already, he'd apparently already got a phone call from somebody.
All right.
Fascinating.
So anyway, well.
Thank you.
Well, that's a very interesting.
I mean, I'll just set my, I'll set everyone to work on figuring that one out.
Big ice balls falling out of the sky.
Start a whole controversy there.
If you feel bad living in this country, there's a lot of countries like France and places like that that are nothing but one big closet full of skeletons.
I mean, this country has a lot of secrets, but so does every other country I know of.
Sure.
So you just kind of got to roll with it and keep a sense of humor.
And it's just part of the business of running a country is to keep secrets.
I hear you.
Well, again, it's been a lot of fun to have you on the show, John.
It's been great.
I'd love to have you back.
Project Camelot.
And I'm going to read your book and get back to you on my response to your sci-fi stuff.
All right.
So thank you so much.
Some people reported the book was really scary, and two of my friends tried to read it and said we couldn't do it.
One guy just told me, he says, John, I couldn't read it.
I couldn't finish it because it was too dark.
Oh, wow.
And I said, ah, yes.
Dark owl.
Okay.
Fascinating.
Anyway, Carrie, so good to talk to you.
And yes, I better let you go.
All right.
You take care.
And thanks again for being on the show.
Okay, very good.
Have a wonderful evening.
You too.
Bye-bye.
All right.
So that's John Brandenburg, Dr. John Brandenberg, a fascinating individual.
And I think he knows quite a bit.
So don't be deceived by his very interesting and casual remarks.
You need to look below the surface when you want to find the truth.
So thanks for listening and watching.
And we'll hopefully be back tomorrow night.
I just got back from interviewing Captain Mark Richards of the Secret Space Program.
We'll try to get that information out to the public as soon as possible, as soon as we can get it compiled.
▲
Export Selection