*RE-UPLOAD* ROUNDTABLE W/ ROSE SHUTTLEWORTH & BA MILLER: GOBEKLI TEPE & ANCIENT SITES
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Hi, everyone.
I'm Carrie Cassidy from Project Camelot and very happy to be here today.
So, we're going to have a fascinating show.
We're going to be talking about Go Beckley Tepe and other ancient sites.
And we've got two explorers with us, and we're going to find out more about them.
So, one person is Rose Shuttleworth, and the other is Ba Miller, as they call her.
And I guess Ba is short for Barbara.
Is that correct?
Barbara.
Barbara.
Okay, very good.
So, here we are.
And I have your pictures on hand as well to share with people.
If you decide you'd like to do that, I can bring them up on the screen as we go.
So, let's start with Rose.
Rose, why don't you introduce yourself and talk a little bit about who you are, how you got started in this field, and anything you'd like to say.
Make it fairly brief because this is just an introduction.
Right.
I think looking back, I was thinking about it this evening.
I've always been an explorer.
My name is Rose Shuttleworth.
I was born just before the Second World War.
And at the age of 10, I started to wake up and want to know what on earth was going on around me and what life was about.
And I went through all sorts of things, brought up in the Christian church and explored different isms, including Sufism and communism.
That only lasted about three weeks.
And then I became a school teacher, art and craft teacher, and got involved at some stage with the Gurdiff-Bennett movement.
And I was in the southeast of England.
And when I came to retirement age, I returned to Cornwall where I'd been as a child.
And I decided to move down there.
In fact, I didn't know whether to go down or not.
I'd been down on a brief trip with some friends and absolutely fallen in love with it again.
And I said to life, if you want me down there, make it available.
And it did.
Suddenly, my job went out from under my feet, and my mother became better.
And I was terrified because I could then actually go and do what I'd said I wanted to do.
And very quickly, when I was down in Cornwall, I met somebody, a potential author, writer, went to a meeting where she was talking about the landscape zodiac.
Her name, Bar will know, is Sheila Jeffries, and she's now become a very prolific author of children's books with a spiritual base usually.
And she, from that point, she introduced me.
She spoke to angels and she spoke to fairies.
And I'd never met people like that.
I'd been with Sufism and Gurghif, and it was very strict and very masculine.
So I got, I didn't know what to do.
And I saw nobody was laughing at the idea of angels and things like this.
So I decided to suspend disbelief because that was all I could do.
And I've done that ever since.
I did that when COVID started.
And that is quite an interesting way of working because you leave everything open and you stop judging to some extent as much as you can ever do.
But when I got to know Sheila, she said you have to go and meet Barr and Hamish, who are authors of these amazing books with earth energy lines.
And I went out and introduced, appeared on the doorstep.
I don't expect Bar remembers and said, I've come to meet you.
Is that okay?
And that started for me.
Bar was already on that journey.
That started for me an amazing journey.
It changed my life.
And I'll leave it at that point, I think.
Okay, wonderful beginning.
And Ba, can you introduce yourself and talk a bit?
I understand that Hamish is someone that you traveled with and wrote the books with, but he is no longer with us.
So why don't you sort of, you know, speak for yourself, but if you want to bring him into it, you're welcome to do so.
Right.
Can you hear me?
Oh, yes.
Yep.
I didn't know whether I was still on mute.
Anyway, well, after Rose's wonderful talk about her life, I don't know, I haven't got that much to say.
I was a physiotherapist.
I worked as a physio for a very long time and really loved the work.
I then, sadly, I have three boys.
Sadly, my marriage kind of came to an end, the father of the boys.
And I went up to Scotland on an island miles away to try and work out what I wanted to do in life on the Isle of Skye.
And from there, I came down to Cornwall, where I met Hamish.
And Hamish taught me to dowse, which was an amazing entrance into the sixth sense, really.
And he was in the process of dowsing a line which ran from Land's End in England right the way diagonally across to Norfolk and picking up ancient sites, which he had finished.
And then we heard from two French people about a line which runs.
I'm sure both these lines go right around the world, but we just did these sections.
And they talked about a line of St. Michael's sites from Ireland all the way down to the Holy Land.
And so we said, oh, let's start doing that.
And I felt, I shall never live long enough to even finish this great journey.
It took us 10 years, and it was an amazing journey following this line which was talked about and written about by these two French people called the Richet brothers.
And then we, a book was written about it, which we called The Dance of the Dragon, the dragon energy dancing down across the land.
We also went to New Zealand after that, and which was a wonderful introduction to the ancient, ancient people that lived in New Zealand before the Maori.
And we met a man who introduced us and took us around New Zealand and showed us sites that only he really knew.
And the actual New Zealanders had no idea of this history.
Anyways, so that is vaguely where I come in, actually.
Yeah.
Okay.
And eventually you wrote, did you co-write those books?
Well, yes, we wrote a book about the one in New Zealand, got it here somewhere.
Anyway, yes.
And yeah, it was an amazing time of my life, really.
I loved New Zealand.
Okay, so the way we connected was that Rose contacted me and she was talking about Gobekli Tepe.
And I think, Rose, you might have seen our documentary on Gobekli Tepe.
Was that how you found out?
Yeah.
Yes.
And, you know, so you said some things that were quite lovely about it and your own experience in Gobekli Tepe.
And so what I'd like to do is, obviously, you both have seen different areas of the world.
I know that you've gone other places as well, Rose.
So perhaps we can start, you know, just going around and you could maybe talk perhaps about.
I know, are you actually in Turkey right now, Rose?
I live in Turkey.
I've been here nearly 15 years.
Okay.
And that's interesting because the regime has actually changed tactics, if you will, recently.
I had some friends there that actually left.
They were British and they felt it became too restrictive to continue.
I hope that's not the case for you.
I was there actually during COVID in, I think it was this summer around July.
I love Turkey.
I was in Istanbul and we ended up there by accident.
We were on our way to Greece and they wouldn't let us in.
So we decided to, we like Turkey and Turkey was letting us in.
So we went just for a couple of weeks to Turkey.
We didn't get to travel around like we normally would like to do, but we did get to spend some time.
You know, there are ancient sites right within the city, of course, Instinct and fascinating, the cistern and so on.
So maybe you can talk about your journeys and also how you got into moving further along and how you actually stuck with this sort of this as making it, I guess, a kind of life's work.
Would you call it that?
Yes, it's, I mean, it's not what I planned to do.
I planned to be in Turkey for a year because I knew I had to leave Cornwall.
My inner voice was so insistent that I, it's like a tapping, I call it.
And I knew I had to leave, but I didn't know where to go.
And then my daughter met a Turk and had a wedding.
So I came out to Turkey and I'd always said Turkey isn't my place.
I was blown away completely by it.
It was fantastic.
And came out for a holiday for a year and never went back, really.
I met my Turkish partner and never went back.
But in the first two years or first year or two years, I got very concerned about the behavior of people.
I was very judgmental, extremely judgmental at that stage.
And I felt we needed to bring the healers.
I'd met Barn, Hamish, and others.
We used to do regular festivals throughout the year, the sun festivals and the earth festivals.
And I felt it would be really useful for them to come out and nobody would take any notice until Hamish had a friend in southern Africa who was into dowsing and energy lines and said that the main energy line that runs north-south from South Africa was blocked up at the Chimera.
Now, I didn't even know at that stage that Turkey had a Mount Olympus.
I'd been in Greece and lived in Greece for a while.
And Turkey has the most gorgeous Mount Olympos.
And the lower slopes have this wonderful chimera where there's flames, permanent flames coming out of the hillside.
So suddenly, this whole group formed in May 2007, I think it was.
And I think 19 healers came over from England ostensibly to work on the energy line there.
And Bar may have something to say about that.
It was an amazing experience.
We did work on the line, but Bar and Hamish worked together because where the main energy lines cross, there's always a node.
And Bar, you can, I'm sure Bar can say more about that.
She's the expert in that field.
Well, I think what I found that the Chimera was on the old meridian, which I had learned about, which ran up through South through Africa.
And it was up the line that Credo drew on his map, went up through the top and Egypt, went across the Mediterranean, went across and up through Turkey, right through the Chimera, if you remember.
Do you remember that?
It was the old meridian, which has now been changed.
It's not the meridian that we use now.
And then when we dowsed at the Chimera, we found that there was a line going longitudinally through because Turkey is really the country which joins East and West.
It sits in between.
And the line, the longitude of this line went through and went straight to Washington.
Do you remember that?
Washington, DC.
Yes.
And we thought, wow.
Anyway, so we felt it was quite an auspicious spot to do all the healing to try and heal the problems that were happening in the East, you know, in Iraq and around there and the West.
So that's really why we came, I think, and worked on that part of the line at the Chimera.
Oh, fascinating.
So can you tell me where about this line started?
Are you saying that it originated in South Africa?
I've been to South Africa to Adam's calendar, in case you're familiar with that.
But I'm curious where this line originated.
Well, may I interrupt.
Sorry, I interrupted here.
Can you tell the story, Bar, of meeting Credo Mutwa?
Because I actually had the honor of meeting Credo Mutwa and he helped them talk about that energy line.
Do you remember?
Yeah, he was the leader of the Zulus, wasn't he?
Or whatever.
Spiritual leader, spiritual leader.
Yes.
Yeah, we were very lucky.
We had a meeting with him and he drew us this map showing us because we said that we'd picked up an amazing line coming up through South Africa.
We picked it up on the top of Table Mountain.
And these light, we felt these lines were lines which go right round the world.
They are sort of like our nervous energy, nervous roots in our body.
The world, the earth is like a human being and the lines that we pick up are like its nervous system.
Anyway, and he drew this line all the way up and it went through the Rift Valley where ancient remains of civilization have been found and on up through the Egypt, the pyramids and across and through up to Turkey and through the Chimera and on up.
But of course we never followed it on.
We didn't have time.
We just took the option and the we felt that just meeting at the Chimera and doing our work there on this line would have an effect all the way around the line, of course.
Sure.
Now, your book that you wrote with Hamish is, I haven't had time to look at it.
So it is about, is it about the ley lines?
Because, you know, there's been a lot of study and books come out about the various ley lines.
So you're talking about the Michael and Mary line and other ley lines around the earth.
There are other kinds of lines as well.
So what specifically are you talking about there?
Well, I wasn't really with Hamish when he was doing the Michael and Mary, which are the ones that he picked up going across England.
Of course, they go round the world because in fact, we went to Russia and we found them passing just below Finland, actually.
Anyway, so I was mainly with him doing the ones from going down to Israel from the Skeleg Michael, which is an amazing pinnacle of rock just off Ireland,
where there is an ancient, ancient beehive monasteries on top of this, where the very, very old people lived because they felt Ireland was too crowded.
Anyway, and then we followed this line by dowsing all the way down from Ireland across the toe of Cornwall over to Mont Saint-Michel in France, all the way down through France,
through various places, amazing places, over the Alps, down through Italy and over to Greece, down through Greece, through the islands, and we ended at Mount Carmel, where the Richet brothers finished their description of this line.
In fact, we decided that we would just follow it a little bit further on while we were in the Holy Land, which was at a time when it was not very easy.
They were very suspicious of us and we had to be incredibly careful.
But anyway, we found it went to an amazing place called Medigo, which is its other name is Armageddon.
And it was absolutely the most peaceful, wonderful place.
And we felt that the battle, so-called battle at Armageddon, had been already won.
It's just the few people in the world today that are keeping that aggro going.
But the actual place of Medigo was fantastic, was absolutely an amazing place.
Yeah, that's where we left the line.
We went onto a ridge and could see the direction it was going.
It was going into Jordan.
And we felt, no, we're not going any further.
We're going to stop here.
And that's what we did.
Okay, yes.
I think you're talking about Megiddo.
Is that not?
Is that the right place?
Medigo or Medigo.
McGuiddo.
Okay, yes, I will look it up.
But I believe, you know, I have been there and up on top of the mountain there in Jordan, the border of Jordan and I believe Israel, if I'm right.
And that's actually where the supposed battle took place and a very interesting site for sure, energetically.
So that's fascinating.
Now, you use dousing.
I have interviewed a woman and she actually we lead tours in Egypt and other places.
Actually, we went around the stone circles in Britain not that long ago as well.
And that is Maria Wheatley.
And her father was an expert dowser and known to douse for the Queen of England when he was still alive.
She's basically inherited his work, if you will.
Yes.
Written her own books and become an expert.
I've met her.
I know her.
Okay, very good.
So she and I go every year to Egypt, although last year we were, of course, not able to go.
And this year is looking quite difficult as well.
We're waiting for the whole COVID thing to blow over.
So, okay, so let's go back to Rose.
And Rose, did you also learn to be a dowser as well?
Was that something?
No, I no, I've tried pendulum and I've tried dowsing, but I'm so strong-willed that I interfere.
I'm very aware that I will interfere and manipulate.
If I do that kind of work now, I ask soul or I ask heart.
And I find that the yes, no answer if possible.
And I find that that is less open to my own ego interference or whatever.
But I mean, what happened next when Barr came over and we did that healing work, she bought, she discovered the white lions of South Africa and bought an article about the white lions.
And I found that so fascinating.
And I thought I'd like to investigate this.
And I was, I think, in Top Ness some year or two later, and I walked into the Arcturus of all names, of all bookshops.
And there lying on the table in front of me was the white lions of Timbavati.
And it's like I was pulled in.
It was one of those occasions.
And I had to read it.
And it is just amazing that Linda Tucker wrote in consultation with Credo Mutwa.
And the white lions were said to be present in the beginning times and the end times.
And I think the tale of the African shaman people said that when the white lions start appearing again at that point in southern Africa, it means we are in the end times.
So I had to go and investigate there.
Didn't actually find what I thought I had set out to do, but we did work on the energy line down there with a group of people that we were with.
Also, found two amazing places where the energy was so powerful you could hardly stand up.
And one was very clearly a place of landing and departure.
And the other, I clearly got a kind of image of a lion.
It was like a lion rock.
So, I mean, I see.
So, whereabouts was this?
And that you were talking the very powerful place?
This would be the Low Veldt.
I can't, I should have, I should have picked up the name of that.
We stayed in Johannesburg and then we moved out to the Low Veldt to the Kruger on the edge of the Krugen National Park.
And oh, I'm it blew me away.
It's God's country.
Yes, you know.
Well, perhaps this is where Michael Tellinger is.
I, you know, and Adam's calendar might be in the same general area.
I'm not sure.
But we went.
We went there.
And actually, I've just watched Sasha Stone's work with the two who do the reading, Elena and I can't remember his name now.
I'm sorry, I'm going blank.
The scalar readings and Michael Tellinger there.
We went to Adam's calendar and we did a meditation, and it had the two of us there in tears.
Don't know why it was just so moving.
And as we left, this huge bird, which I was told was a secretary bird, flew in front of the Jeep and escorted us out.
And it's evidently quite a powerful South African bird there.
So that wasn't necessarily connected with Gobekli Tepe, but it was connected with Bar and myself.
And that journey led on down there.
Fascinating, yes.
Well, the white lions, you may or may not know about the work of Asiana Dean, and she talks about the white lion.
Anyway, so it's a white lion, and the white lions are very symbolic.
And of course, the lions in general.
So that's, I have a great interest in that myself.
And I was very aware of the lions in the area where Michael Tellinger is, which was probably very similar to where you were when you went down there.
And it is not that far from Adam's calendar as well.
No, it was fascinating to go around.
We stayed at Timbervati for a short time and went out on safaris in the morning.
And for someone who is absolutely spider phobic to be driving through these great nets of enormous spiders, that was quite a challenge.
But we did actually see the pride of lions, the very, very pale ones that were set to do the breeding for the next generation.
Because the white lion, I can't remember the name of the baby that Linda so loved, had been born and everybody was very excited about that.
But because of their inexperience, there wasn't enough land to feed the lions and they were burrowing.
And this very special baby, this special female, was burrowing and got buried alive and died.
So that was very, very, very tragic.
And I now subsequently coming to Turkey and meeting up in Turkey eventually with the Gobekli Tepe Trail, I've lost touch with the African.
I mean, I have friends down there still from my visit, but I've lost touch with that energy, if you like.
Okay.
So as far as going, okay, so somehow you ended up in Gobekli Tepe.
So let's go to that and talk a bit about it.
I don't know if Ba and Shamish went to Gobekli Tepe as well.
I did, yes.
Okay.
Sadly, had passed over by that time.
I came over, I joined a group and came with the group and met up with you, Rose, didn't I?
That was right.
That was right at the end of the journey.
I'd wanted you to come.
I never told you, but I'd wanted you to come right from the beginning because I knew of your dowsing abilities.
And it was 2010 that we met a friend who'd come on that chimera trip.
And she told me about the film of Gobekli Tepe.
And what she told me about the animals inscripted on the stone and how this was changing history.
And also, I think I read articles, and it didn't make any sense at all that the very earliest temples that were built there were the most proficient, the most skillful.
And everything, as time progressed, became less and less skillful.
And that to me pointed to intelligence from elsewhere, whether it be human or otherwise that came in, because the norm is to build your skill slowly.
And so the bells rang, and I knew my curiosity.
I had to get down there.
So Kasim is absolutely fantastic.
He loves, he's not quite as into this as I am in that kind of depth, but he was very willing to come along.
And in November, we went down.
And honestly, I'm so glad we did because it was open, it was raw, and the energy was fresh, if you like.
By the time this was 2010, by the time your group got their bar as 2014, there was building and there's all the new stuff that's there, and it's no longer open to the skies.
And the first thing we knew when we got there was in meditation, anyway, and Kasim went off to talk to the Guardian, and he picked up the same thing.
It is so connected to the stars.
Oh, absolutely.
That was his purpose.
Astronomically, that was what they wanted to do to join.
They wanted to.
It was there had been an enormous amount of destruction by comets and things hitting the earth and destruction before 10,000 years ago over that time.
And they built these things to be able to watch the sky and kind of time the things to be aware of what was probably going to hit the earth.
They were astronomical buildings that they were building, definitely, because the two great big central monoliths there on the site, as you remember, when I came over, we went round and actually it was right at the beginning.
There wasn't too much, we didn't have to pay to go in and it was all open.
We could just walk around, which was wonderful.
And I and the next day was a free day with the group, and I felt I wanted to go back there on my own.
So I hired a taxi, and one girl wanted to come with me.
And she came and we went back and we spent the day on our own walking around.
And I used my dowsing rod and was just peacefully meditating and working out the intricacies of this amazing site.
It really was amazing, thinking how old it was and the beautiful sculptures engraved on these huge monoliths.
Anyway, I found that the energy lines coming in were crossing at the in the center, or they were crossing in the center, but they had been distorted and they weren't crossing in the center anymore.
And I just wondered why that had been.
It had almost as if the place had been disrupted and whether to keep it from being used in the wrong way or whether people had destroyed it because I think they thought that it had been purposely destroyed and whether it had been yes, actually it was buried in history.
And because they knew there was a coming flood or something of that nature, they didn't, in order to protect the stones and all of that.
So then I think even it's still not been completely excavated.
I'm going to bring some of your pictures online here that Rose gave me and see if we can bring up some of the things we're talking about here because I think it will be interesting to people.
So I'm not sure how exactly to do this.
Oh, yes.
Are people able to see this?
Okay.
So just want to click down here.
I'm actually, I want to go to the area we're talking about.
And this is actually an old picture of a ley line.
I guess.
And by the way, I was talking about the white line.
It's called an A-pin, and I can give more information about that a little later.
So I wanted to go back here.
And here's one of your one of the books from Hamish.
And so let me see if, oh gosh, these didn't, not all these came up.
So, okay.
Not sure why that is.
What's a situation?
Okay, so that.
Yeah, it's always difficult to, you know, unless you set these things up way ahead of time.
So stand by here.
I'm just going to try to get this.
This is a prerecord, so I will be able to take out any delays that we have while I'm trying to bring this up here.
It's not easy, is it?
Okay, you can see that this one, which is at least one of the stones, which is quite a good depiction of it.
One thing that came up with these totems or the strange animals was that they could have been used because a huge energy work could have gone on at this place, but from the stars or whatever.
But that these symbols would have a meaning to the people who were working within the region and would give signals of different kinds.
Right.
Well, what we found out in essence, and I've done some investigation here, is that there was a great deal of this was a place of genetic engineering of humanity that was happening, and that the races that came down actually had some very diabolical intentions, it appears.
Now, I don't know if you're aware that this is also the site in Turkey where there are ancient sects, you know, S-E-C-T sects that worship basically sort of sacrifice.
And it gets into what you might call the Luciferian agenda and so on.
So we're really talking about bodies and they found bodies actually of children and other humans in that area that has been hidden by the Turkish government.
So you cannot find them there, but they were buried all around the site and in that area.
So whether they happen simultaneously at the exact same time, whether or not there was a ritual going on that involved sacrifice, whether that came, you know, how in the eons of history, of course, we don't know the layers of each layer when something happens versus something else.
But I do have sort of a military witness who has told me that there was a lot of sacrifice going on there.
So it's quite interesting.
Very powerful site.
Now, there was a German explorer who, and I forget his name, but he died actually not so long ago in a very strange accident, just swimming in his pool back in Germany, of all things.
So he was Klaus Schmidt.
Yes.
He was the one who did the excavation at the beginning.
Yes.
And apparently had a certain slant and then was also locking people out.
It was interesting because Germany took complete control over the site, even though it was in Turkey.
So that there was some kind of political mechanics going on, which happens with ancient sites.
Maybe you came across that in other places as well.
I know.
I picked that up in our early days there because he was in charge when we first went and he had complete control of everything.
And I remember being incensed by this because not only does it belong to Turkey, but he wouldn't allow postcards or books.
You couldn't find any information at all whatsoever.
So, we always tried to go when he wasn't going to be around, so we were free.
We did pick up on that very much so.
Yes, exactly.
And there was something going on with all of that.
There's a writer, an English guy, who went down to that area and actually met with one of the ancient sects that deals with sacrifice.
And this is a very old tradition in the area, apparently.
And their group is sort of hidden in the mountains.
They're still doing it, are they?
I believe so.
And it's linked with something that these kinds of things that also go on.
You know, these ancient sort of secret societies, if you will.
He wrote, what he did was he went there, he did a lot of investigation, and I don't have his name or the name of his book in front of me, but I read his book.
And he took the real story and put it into a fiction account.
And it does link up the secret societies in England, believe it or not, and Ireland with this particular area of the world where this was part of the tradition.
And it's a hidden tradition, needless to say.
So, just saying that this is another side to Gobekli Tepe, and one of the reasons why probably the Germans were so intent on secrecy.
In fact, it's still, if you saw my documentary, you might have seen me refer to the strange way they started and stopped excavations in the area.
And they would not go all the way, basically, for some unknown reason, even today.
The thing is, they basically halted at Gobekli.
And there is something, I think Ba, you were just saying earlier, there is something to do with actually once all the stones get set up, they would be activated.
And if they got activated, they would form a stargate.
And that if they were in the right position, there's a harmonics to, you know, how they're shaped.
You know, they come up and they have this sort of wide top thing.
It's actually studied as having special harmonics to do with like a musical, almost music.
And that once set up, then this vortex would basically open and it would become a sort of a stargate opening to a certain part of the constellation out there.
And not sure that, in other words, the thought being that they don't want that to happen.
That those can I just, I'm sorry interrupting here.
No, go ahead.
With our group, when Barr and Pauline came back with the findings, I particularly found it really exciting because this kind of what you're talking about actually came through.
That there was some very, very powerful work must have taken place there.
And that the carvings were, you talked about this bar, were there for people who knew, who were at that level, that knew if they were not qualified that they should stay away.
This would be warning for people who were working there.
But also, Barr introduced guardians, yes.
Yeah, but you, Barr, brought the work of Christian and Joy O'Brien.
Yes.
And we were very aware that at that time they were genius of the few.
Genius of the few.
Yeah.
Well, Kerry, you've heard of this book.
Have you?
No, actually, I hadn't.
It sounds fascinating.
It is absolutely fascinating because it talks about this amazing people that lived on that area in Turkey on that mountain range going along, which were highly intelligent.
I mean, they did genetic breeding, and they were highly advanced people.
And in the end, finally, actually, some of them went down and Mixed with the Cro Magnion.
Oh, pictures come up, Cro Magnion people and were told not to procrastinate and lie with the women, and they did.
And they, the trouble was then they had monster children and deformed children, and they all had to be killed.
I'm just wondering whether that is something which came into this story that you were saying.
But that's very interesting.
Okay, they found the skulls of children buried in this vicinity.
And actually, I was just noticing that there, you have you sent me one picture that has flame in it.
I don't know if this is, is this the place?
Okay, so that's what you call it.
And are you saying that it burns all the time?
Yeah, it's nothing coming out of the rocks.
It's eternal flame.
And this is in Turkey.
Is it in the area of Gopekli or is it where?
No, no, this was earlier.
This was when the group, the first group came over, and we did work on the, there was on the crossing of those two energy lines, there was a lemnoscape pattern.
And I'm sorry, Bar, I'm talking okay.
But the it's a figure of eight pattern, and the western side was smaller than the Turkish, the eastern side, and it needed rebalancing.
This was the blockage in the energy lines.
And we worked with a group of us and we used gold.
And it was the most powerful ceremony actually I've ever been to.
It was amazing.
It was amazing.
Yes, I, because the landscape, the figure of eight, is the ancient symbol for balance, really, and it's a very old symbol.
And yes, Hamish picked that up over the that spot.
I can remember, yes.
Do you remember it?
We all sort of meditated to try and find the balance and try to get it to balance.
And I don't know, I think we felt that it needed a lot more work on it, didn't we, Rose?
It was amazing that we formed a circle and closed our eyes.
And we were visualized a cup, I think, a challenge, filling with gold.
And I actually saw the point at which it overflowed.
And at that point, Beth, who was leading the ceremony, said, and the gold is now coming and it's flowing.
At the same time, we had a German, a German, a German guy who has nothing to do with us complaining at the top of his voice about he hated people like us who did things like this.
It was so embarrassing.
But we had children around cooking sausages around us in the fire.
But it was an incredible ceremony.
And afterwards, you found immediately that the rebalancing had happened.
And he'd never, Hamish had never experienced that immediate rebalancing before.
Fascinating.
And so do you know the actual name of the area in Turkey where this chimera and where you did your ceremony?
Do you know the name of that area?
Tirali.
Olympus, isn't it?
It's on Mount Olympus near that's right.
You said Tirali.
Jirali.
On the Loves.
Chirali.
Chirali.
Yes.
You know, there's a Turkish woman that I often interviewed her several times, and she's also an explorer, and she would probably know this place.
Because I do plan to take a group back to Turkey.
There are many things to see there, including, you know, those really bizarre cave, that cave system that is, I forget the name of it.
It's anyway, it's a famous site.
And there are other, I don't know if you're aware, both of you and either one of you can reply to this, but there's a huge amount of reptilian sort of inscriptions and drawings and carvings and all over on temples around the world, even gargoyles on churches and so on.
So, but also in the Middle East specifically, a great deal of that symbolism.
And this woman is actually an expert on that symbolism, and she takes tours around Turkey.
But they tried to destroy the Syrian sites recently.
They had the military going in, destroying them, I believe, because they want to hide the emphasis on the reptilian domination of the planet at a certain point juncture in our history.
I'd like to ask you a question, may I?
Sure.
Because I talked to Bar about this earlier in all our investigations at Gabeklitepe, we didn't pick up on anything negative, anything destructive.
The whole area was littered with arrowhead stone, you know, the carved stones.
Earlier groups picked up that there was a portal, and that was 2012 with the great shift.
One psychic friend picked up that deep down below that portal, and that was a guardians by a dragon.
And as far as I'm concerned, the dragon element of the reptilian group is positive, is loving, and is earth guardianship.
The rest can vary, as with human beings, really.
But we picked that up there.
But none of that, when we had that visit with Bar, none of that came out at all.
But none of us ever picked up anything negative or dangerous or destructive.
In a workshop subsequently, somebody who refused to come had had a vision of terrifying reptilian beings who entered somewhere in the region of Gabekitepe.
And one of my psychic friends at that workshop said that is the place she channeled where they have to be told to leave.
So there's such a mixture of stuff.
And I've been given to understand that the reptilian group goes from the very best to the very worst.
Sure.
You've done much more investigation into this.
You know, I would agree actually.
The dragon energy, I think, is it basically, you know, even the Chinese relate to it in terms of the ultimate creative energy.
So it is, I guess, can be, you know, fire coming out of the mouth.
So it can be creative and it can be destructive.
So that's the symbolism.
But of course, the Draco are, I believe, predominantly, you know, sort of, we see that it is negative.
They don't see it as negative, the beings themselves, of course, because they are just how they are.
It's just that they are dangerous to humans, right?
Because they view us as prey.
And of course, back in England, you, you know, George and the dragon and going and fighting the dragons was always part of the mythology, of course, of England.
And so it goes way back in time.
But yes, I agree.
There are positive Draco.
And in fact, Mark, one of my witnesses who deals with this a lot, talks about both positive and negative.
So there are, yeah, I would agree with you.
This is, sorry, interrupting.
This is where one has to find the balance in life.
And as you know, Moses held up his rod and he had two serpents, which makes the caduceus, which makes that balanced.
And that was the healing rod.
You see, that's symbolic of Kundalini energy, actually.
You see it balance when it crosses.
And that is the important thing.
And these ancient people were mentioned and talked about by these two people, Christian O'Brien, this book, which I fully recommend you maybe could read.
It's absolutely fascinating because these ancient people were called the shining ones and they were also called serpents because their faces, whether they put on something to protect their faces or whatever, or it was a custom, but they had very tall, long faces and they were called the serpents and they were very, very intelligent people.
So it's, and of course, the earth energy is thought of as the serpent and the dragon energy.
And the French, of course, call it the weevre, which is the worm, the weaving, weaving, snake-like.
So the name and people worship the snake.
Look at the Egyptians on their helmets.
They have the cobra.
And yes, but that is a symbol of Kundalini.
Yes, that is the raised kundalini.
And so this is what they are depicting.
Most people don't, even archaeologists don't acknowledge this, of course.
They don't know about the Eastern tradition of understanding kundalini activation and all of that.
So that's actually the symbol of enlightenment.
And that's why, for example, King Tut has the cobra on top of his head coming out through the third eye as they do.
And so, yes, it's depicted all over the world, this serpent energy, and it is symbolic of the rising of the kundalini from the base of the spine, symbolizing.
Can I say something here about the dragon to add to that?
Because we had another member of our group, Patricia, who co-led both groups, was there with Bar's group and the one before.
And she is the one that was into dragons when I was in Cornwall.
And she started seeing visions of dragons.
But this was Patricia, Patricia.
And she started seeing this and she started focusing on the dragons.
And she was going to write a book.
And I'm very sorry that she didn't because she talked about Lemuria.
Now, I had a vision.
I'm sure I was in Lemuria.
I feel very strongly connected to that.
And she said that the original Lemurians, the Golden Age, humans were, they had faces, if you like, or structures that were slightly dragon-like, which goes along with what Barr said about the shining ones and their faces were long and slim.
But according to her, they were the, or we or they were the first guardians of the earth.
And what she said was: when mankind decided to play with dark energy, the dragons couldn't live with that kind of dark negativity.
And so they went into the earth.
And this would be when I started working with her, the early 2012, 11, 12, something like this.
They'd started appearing again.
And so she was the one that saw the black dragon who was the guardian of the portal in 2012.
And that was October, just before the shift of the ages.
And Kazim and I went back in the spring.
That dragon wouldn't leave.
It felt it wasn't ready to let mankind take responsibility.
Felt it wasn't ready.
So we went back to check and the portal had opened.
What area of the world was this?
This was.
This was Gobekli Tepe.
Okay.
This was the earlier workshops that Bar wasn't involved with.
And we went back to Czech and I looked up my notes and I worked with some crystal skulls that I had and sat on top of the hill, that mound, the Tepe, and was told that the dragon was still around and what had come through was very benevolent to the earth.
Well, that's very possible.
The thing is that I have actually seen dragons myself and had communication with, well, I guess you could say one in particular.
With, you know, it was a shakar is as they call them, one with wings.
So the winged dragons are a certain group.
And it may be that they are considered the royalty of dragons, in case you've heard that.
And so, yes, I mean, I, you know, I don't have any issue with that.
And I think, I think the thing with Gobekli Tepe is like I was saying, the layers.
And I do know that Mark Richards acknowledged that there has been now whether there were, you know, a wave of sort of good genetic engineering and then a darker wave kind of thing coming in.
But I've actually seen, I have visions and such.
And, you know, I was there.
You can see in my video.
I guess Ba has not seen the video.
Is that right?
Probably.
No, you haven't.
Yes.
So I am, you know, we spent quite a bit of time wandering around up there and we were the only ones there.
There weren't even anyone excavating at the time.
And we also went to the museum, which was completely empty at the time and wandered around there.
Completely free, yes, in Urfa, as they call it.
So yes.
So I would say that the energy that I encountered was not negative either.
However, I think we have had many waves.
And there is, like I say, you can't ignore these ancient sects that do inhabit the area and what they were involved in as well.
And there have been what they would do is that when they would open the portal and the beings would come down on top of the hill, the people would wind up the hill from the villages carrying these torches of fire.
And they would do a procession, and they would be like in a trance state.
And it was this kind of situation in which, I guess, the sort of, you know, genetic engineering, maybe you could even say perhaps they were taken into the Stargate and then returned or in some cases not.
So I have seen that.
That whole valley is, this is the Tigris and Euphrates Valley.
This is an incredibly fertile valley that lays beneath at the feet of Gobekli Tepe.
And, you know, they have discovered other, like an extended, you know, area where there are many sites on the nearby mountains that are similar.
But interestingly, I think Gobekli Tepe itself has the largest, these, you know, I don't know what you want to call them, pinnacles or whatever, you know, these, these, these.
Monoliths.
Yes, if you will.
And, but, but they are clearly created, you know, they're carved and all that.
So they're not like, I think of monoliths as being natural formations.
But at any rate, whatever you want to call them.
So, and again, this harmonic setup.
And so it, it is one of, if not the oldest site so far that they've admitted to finding on the planet, on the surface, right?
You know that.
So they, I think they dated it around 12,000 years old.
And of course, the pyramids are also this age as, you know, and older too, and as is the Sphinx.
So these ancient sites are misdated, you know, that's a regular occurrence, of course.
Yep.
I thought the pyramids were much, much later than Gobekli Tepe.
And so is Stonehenge.
Gobekli Tepe is long, much, much older.
Well, that's, that is what they are saying.
However, I am not quite sure that's completely the case.
Now, one of the things about the pyramids and actually Stonehenge is, as I know, it is both have been rebuilt over the centuries.
Yeah.
So it may also be the version and where they're doing the dating and having some, but there's a cover up at any rate on, on dating any of these ancient sites around the world.
And I'm sure there are even more, and we know about the giants, perhaps, you know, even in, in Egypt, they have actual photographs of, of excavating gigantic bones, giants, yes, giants.
And there's one in particular, I think, in a small museum in Aswan that depicts the whole skeleton, you know, happens to be crouched in a crouched position, but nonetheless, it's gigantic, you know, maybe even something like 24 feet tall.
So the hidden, this, I've done interviews with Hugh Newman, and I think Jim Vieira is his partner.
They've written books about how the Smithsonian has hidden this, the secrets behind all of the giants that have inhabited the earth.
So, you know, this goes, we go back to that as well.
It is interesting to me on Gobekli Tepe, again, that the largest columns are in the central area of what we call Gobekli Tepe, and they named some of the farther away sites with related names.
I don't have them in front of me right now.
Did you know about that that there were other sites and they have smaller of these columns?
As you go down, as you go down the hill, they've got the sort of square sites all down the hill and the columns get smaller and rougher.
To me, it was as though people who didn't know what they were doing were trying to emulate, were trying to reach the world.
They had lost the knowledge.
They'd lost the knowledge by that time.
That's how it felt.
It's possible.
I don't know.
Yes.
Well, you know, it's wonderful to talk to other people that have been to these places.
There's not that many people in the world that go to these places.
And of course, have you been to Adam's calendar in South Africa?
I made a documentary about that as well.
Have you, Bar?
I have.
What?
No, I haven't.
What being in Adam's calendar, it's called.
It's a very spectacular site of huge stones.
And I think you had a picture here in your group, a picture.
It's me.
I went there.
It's me.
I went there when I went down to investigate the white lions.
And I'd always wanted to go to see Africa.
I always wanted to see South Africa.
So, and it was Patricia again.
She got lots of friends down there.
And we went round to see various places.
But I want to take you, if I may, back to the Gobekitepe region.
Did you go with Farah or on your own to see Sogmatar?
Maybe you could explain what's the name?
I don't understand.
Because nobody goes there.
It was when we first went, it's a hellish place to find because nobody knew about it.
It was just at the tourist center.
They said, I looked through the book they gave me in this place, Sogmatar.
Now, you know, did you go to Haran with the beehive places with the beehive houses?
Haran is south of Shanli Ulfa.
Oh, really?
No.
You know, when we went there, they were having, they were starting a war with Syria across the border, as I recall.
We went there at that time.
And so everything, we couldn't go further south.
So I'm pretty sure that that simply didn't happen.
We stayed in the general area of Gobekli Tepe.
We were told by our families and that Bar and company were frightened of coming.
And this was 2014, probably just before you went.
And people in Urfa that we knew just laughed and said, life is normal.
So we went.
Fantastic.
Yeah.
It was amazing.
But very few people go to Sogmata.
There is a well there that is it Musa Moses?
No.
I thought it was Jesus was there and somebody came out.
No, no, no.
It was Moses who met the woman he wanted to marry and he had to work for her father and then he had to marry the older sister before he could get the one that he wanted.
No, I know who you mean.
Yes.
That's Sogmata.
I've been several times.
I know it's Sogmata.
But there's some amazing stuff.
I sent you pictures there, Kerry.
Now, Haran, Haran has got the oldest university.
It's got prehistoric ruins there, which are nothing to look at.
And we couldn't pick up with the dowsing anything, or you couldn't pick up with the dowsing anything there.
But I got a book about Babylonian, the Babylonian civilization.
I was reading it one time in Cornwall.
And it had descriptions there that there was the most amazing temple to the moon god, Sin.
And it was one of the one of the emperors there.
Instead of running his warlike state, he was interested in uncovering history.
And he reconstructed this.
And it was famous throughout the whole region.
This wonderful temple with cedar beams and great swinging doors and so on.
Now, Sogmatar was the place Muslim, who was the original museum curator who set up the big new museum.
He told us that at that stage in Haran, there was this group of worshippers of Sin, the moon god, Sin.
And when Islam and Christianity and Judaism came in, they were given an ultimatum by whom I don't know, that they had to adopt one of those three world religions or leave.
And they chose to leave.
And they went to Sogmatar, which is a vast, vast site.
And there were seven temples to the planets there.
So can you spell the name so I can pull it up?
It's S-O-G-M-A-T-A-R, I think.
Okay.
And that's in Turkey.
Okay, got it.
We went with the first group, and it was one of those days when magic happened.
And Patricia, who channels, she said it was from this place she said goodbye to her people.
She was left behind in that region, and most of them went.
She doesn't remember doing that, but there were two or three of us sitting with her when she channeled that.
And we just had the most magical day.
When we went with Barr's group, it rained.
It was miserable.
It wasn't going there.
You don't remember?
No.
It had those, it's got carvings under the prehistoric dwellings.
There's a kind of cave and it's got very worn away carvings.
Oh, yes, I do remember.
Absolutely.
To the planetary gods.
And I remember the well.
Yes.
So is this look a little bit like what you're talking about?
Sagmatar.
Yes, it's a very good thing.
Oh, that's Sogmatar.
Yes.
Yes.
I have sent you photos, Kerry.
Yes, but I didn't find this one.
So I was just trying to.
I don't know what that is.
That doesn't bring back a memory.
It's not yours.
On the far side of that site, you climb up and there's some carvings.
There's like a god with like a sun around the head.
And there's very, very weird language carvings, like you were talking about reptilian.
They had that at Gabekli Tepe as well.
And nobody understood what this kind of curved letters language was.
Nobody had been able to translate it.
I think I sent you photos of that as well.
But people don't go there.
It's quite a journey, but it's somewhere that's worth energetically exploring.
And with someone like Farah, I don't know whether she's been, but with her tuning, she might pick up stuff.
Okay, wonderful.
Well, you know, it's great to know about these sites, to find out about them.
And then I'm sure that more people will go to them if they can possibly do so.
I don't know what it's like now in Turkey as far as allowing people to go south down to that area.
Do you happen to know now?
Just one moment.
Kazim, what is the situation for traveling south within Turkey?
No.
Yes, now.
He says it's okay.
You need things like an HES code.
I don't go anywhere because I'm not wearing masks and I'm not doing any of this stuff.
But it is possible to travel.
You can get permission.
Okay.
It just depends how purist you want to be about mask wearing and so on.
Right.
And this is why I'm not going to Egypt at the moment because that would just destroy the experience to walk around ancient temples where normally you would meditate and to have a mask on.
It would be very destructive.
So there's just no point in doing that until that changes, which hopefully it will.
I was told a very lovely story, and I think it took place somewhere in Montana, that they had done away with the masks and that people were coming out of their houses and off into the street, like in after World War II, ripping off their masks and smiling and laughing and hugging each other and having a beautiful celebration.
So I wish that for the entire world.
Oh, me too, me too.
I mean, we were talking, I was talking yesterday with the Connecting Consciousness group and Emris from California, who runs it.
And he, I don't know whether he's been to Gebeklitepe.
He really wants to go this summer.
And I said, I don't really want to join a tour.
It's going to probably be too expensive for me.
But I would love to link up with any of you that go down there at that time.
All right.
Well, you live in Turkey.
That's fabulous because, you know, you'd be easily able to join.
You know, we had been planning a tour of Turkey right before all this thing happened.
In fact, we were supposed to go that May.
I think it was.
And yeah, it was putting that all together.
So we were going to go to Egypt and then we were going to go to Turkey.
And then we were going to go to Romania.
And none of it was able to happen because this whole craziness happened.
So I know it's really difficult.
If you do, I mean, you've got people who've worked with you before.
My partner, Chasm, if it's not summertime, is very good with officialdom.
Oh, he's absolutely magically super and he distracts.
Yeah.
He's very good at distracting.
Bar knows about that with the dowsing around cross-country where somebody has to distract to stop holier than thou people interfering.
Yes, absolutely.
Well, it is.
A lot of people think it's devils worshipping, devils stuff, dowsing.
Yes.
Oh, that's very strange.
Well, we have a very excellent, you know, you have to have your Egyptian guide and then you can, we guide as well, right?
So we actually, there's three of us.
There's our Egyptian guide and then myself and Maria.
And we take turns at each site talking.
Each of us have a different kind of angle on the story.
And it's quite fun to share our different perspectives all at every site.
So yes, he does the same thing.
He knows how to deal with the guards.
He knows how to get us into a situation where we can meditate as we wish in certain places and do what we want to do and so on and so forth.
Some places, even before the masking situation, have become quite restrictive, as you may know, where they're really watching you every second.
And I don't even know what the status, for example, is in terms of Gobekli Tepe.
If you remember, at least from my documentary, you can see I was just, I was sitting there.
I was, you know, it was quite empty and we were able to talk about what was going on.
One of the things about Gobekli Tepe is that they have planted forests, young forests, all around the site to keep, you know, to cover up so that they don't have to excavate what's the entire site, if you understand.
You know, they've covered it with soil and they've planted.
Yeah, it's quite extraordinary.
And it's very obvious what they've done.
And so this is part of the, you know, the continued cover up of our ancient history here on Earth that is so vital, of course.
And when you go to these sites, you feel the energy.
They can't take that away, right?
The energy.
I mean, it was when we first went, when we moved in, I mean, I'm very connected with Earth.
And as we drove and we drove down from Konya, just absolutely amazing going through Chattel Hoyuk and places like this.
And I was talking to the mountains, and nobody thinks these days that you need to apologize to the earth or ask permission to the earth for the work that you do.
And we've traveled around where they've just blasted mountains and so on.
But I remember coming into the region and I was nearly physically blown away with the energy.
It was right from the start amazing.
And something that struck me is that what's going on on the planet and why I really got involved and have become very active.
A lot of my friends are into spiritual stuff and meditation and saying this is the time when the dark energy is finally coming to the end.
And what I saw, it is not.
It wasn't.
And it wasn't working, which was sacrilege, really, in some circles of friendship.
And one needs to be active because they seem to be going for the most sacred places on earth.
That's what I was watching.
And I just couldn't stand by and let that happen.
Well, Stonehenge is a perfect example, of course.
You may know, you know, when they let everyone in in the solstice, the 21st, I think it is of June, you know, it becomes like a madhouse where they let thousands and thousands of people overrun the place, you know, being British, of course, about this.
And what happens is they have, you know, they have like drunken, basically brawls, like a very Dionysian sort of festival rituals going on.
And people are high on all different substances and so on.
But that what it does is create this energy, adrenochrome type.
You know, it goes into a drunichrome, but it's Kundalini energy, but it's it braced basically is then um sucked in by the dark side and utilized, and they use it for magical acts after the people leave.
And so, this is it's just a secret as to why they open it up.
They open it up for the one for like I think it's 24 hours during the solstice, and and all the rest of the year, you can't now they've roped the place off so completely.
Are you in England, Ba?
Yes, I am, I am, I'm down in Cornwall.
Yes, I have been when there was an it was where people you are allowed, you have to book to go.
You can book, yes, yes, you can go in, but they're still extremely they let a small group come in and you can go near the stones and stuff.
But we were told constantly, don't touch the stones, don't touch the stones.
You know, it's um it's sanitized very much.
Sadly, I mean, the same in Malta that is being sanitized, been roped off, and you just walk around miles away from the stones.
Whereas before, you well, maybe they changed that, yes, because I have been all over Malta and inside the temples, it is very different.
Oh, God, that's terrible.
I don't know how did you go to Gozo at all?
But it does help to have people who can get you into places.
Um, we were helped amazingly on our journey down from Ireland down to the Holy Land.
For instance, when we were at the in um Greece at um my brain is gone, but um, at the Athena Temple, Athena, yes, Delphi, no, well, Delphi, Delphi, yes, we went there as well.
Um, but um, we wanted the Acropolis, was it the Acropolis, the Acropolis, but also Delphi?
Um, Hamish wanted to go across the Apollo temple, and he got onto it, and the whistles were blown by the guards, and he was told to get off.
Anyway, we thought, well, gosh, how are we ever going to do any work here?
And a lovely guide, one of the guides, took us aside when we were walking down, disgruntled and thinking, gosh, what how can we do anything here?
And she said, What were we doing?
And we told her, and she said, I well, I can understand.
She said, Now you meet me tomorrow at 10 o'clock, and I will tell all the guides to stop blowing their whistles and I will let you go right across the temple, which she did.
But it was really funny because we were right in the middle of the temple, and Hamish was dousing where the lines went and where they crossed.
And an American lady shouted from above on some pathway, You're not supposed to be there, she said.
And I shouted back, We have got permission.
And she said, Where are you from?
And I said, The boss.
Honestly, but I mean, this helped us to get to places.
And this happened time and time again.
Yes.
At the Acropolis, there were scaffolding and workmen, and you were not allowed anywhere near the temple.
And so Hamish disappeared off, and he found a little kind of hut with a girl, it's sitting in it.
And he told her what he wanted to do.
And she said, I will let you in.
She bought a hard hat and she said, Where is it you want to go?
And Hamish told her and doused and showed her which pillar it came through and across the temple.
And she said, That is amazing.
She said, I suffered from cancer and I used to sit with my back to that pillar having my lunch.
And she said, My cancer is gone.
And she said, If you came five minutes later, I would have gone for my lunch and nobody, but nobody would have allowed you on the to go onto the center of the temple.
And that happened time and time again.
Yes, extraordinary.
Yeah.
Yeah, it happens to me as well.
Um, and our group, and we're very, very lucky that way.
And we have incredible connections, and especially in Egypt, I must say.
And they have actually, you know, become, there's lots of policemen in essence, you know, a tremendous amount of unemployment in Egypt.
So that's one of the most being a temple guard is, you know, one of the only jobs, really.
But if you get the right people and you get the ancient ones that are standing around, actually.
They understand.
And then if they decide, they will lead you into these places and let you in.
And I got led into all kinds of places, even on my own.
Because yes, they see something in you that they relate to and they read energy and all that.
So they're really lovely, unbelievable, lovely people.
And they do give you access.
So, yes, you know, these rules can be bent with the right situation and energetically and all that.
Because you come with love and truth and always afterwards send gratitude.
Sure, of course.
And this is, you know, so wonderful.
Yes, of course.
And I have to say that these ancient sites, I don't know whether you've gotten into this, but if you do go to the various places, it actually changes your DNA.
It changes your aura.
It changes you so that after every trip that I've ever gone on, I can feel a completely different, you know, energizing around me and everything.
It's quite addicting, in fact, and it's incredible high, as you may know.
So there's really nothing like it that can match it, to be honest.
Oh, yes, absolutely.
And I think that they don't want humans to tap into this, of course, because it puts you in such an altered, high, you know, energy state so that you really must vibrate incredibly.
I'm sure I know that you do, and one does.
So, you know, this is such a gift to be able to go to these places.
One of the things that has been most tragic about the time with the whole COVID thing is the lack of being able to travel freely.
So I'm very hopeful that that will change for us very soon.
And even during COVID, as I say, I was pushing the barriers.
I insisted on going to various places, but I was turned away at the gate as far as Greece goes.
Now, Greece is a very fascinating place.
I was at Delphi.
I was at the other Acropolis and so on as well.
Delphi is quite fascinating.
And again, that is a place where they don't want you to go in the Apollo Temple.
We did manage to get in there.
Not sure how, again, how we did, but we did.
And so on.
So, yeah, it's also physically very demanding.
Did you find this?
You know, most of the high level things.
Yeah, and very, it's all.
Yes, we couldn't.
Really, it was very tiring concentrating in that frame of mind when you're dowsing because you have to be absolutely, you have to take your logic mind out completely because you can't force it to go somewhere.
You just have to be guided by, you know, and that is incredibly difficult to use that control of, well, it's not control, it's just allowing your left and right brain not to be guided by what you think it should be.
You have to just let it go.
And that is very, very tiring to be in that frame of mind.
Well, yes, it's difficult to combine that, you know, it's strenuously physical because you end up hiking a lot of time uphill, no matter where it is, or stairs or whatever.
And then at the same time, you're focused in what is in essence the right brain.
And that's the non-judgmental female side of the brain.
And it's also a state of meditation, of high meditation.
Yeah.
Simultaneously, you're going through all of that.
So it can be incredibly, you know, exhausting.
And your focus is, of course, on whatever it is you're going to, and so on and so forth, and connecting with that and the earth and going beyond the levels.
So, yes, it's a very exciting way to live.
As I say, quite draining, but at the same time, energizing in a different way, you know what I mean?
And so, you take a lot back with you.
Is there time for me to tell you a little story?
Sure.
Little one.
I think one of the early visits, I'm not quite sure, we had made friends with the man who was Muslim, who was the then director of the museum.
And I had my little plan that I was going to go to the site, and we knew which day we were going to go.
And I had my plan.
I'm a great planner and organizer.
So I had planned this carefully.
And I would go and sit in the place of the Belvedere and I would do my meditation and I would open myself to the site and let whatever it wanted to tell me come in.
But life had completely different plans, and I'm quite a fixed sign.
So it was very hard.
We found that one of the guys from the Ministry of Tourism or Ministry of Culture was going to be there.
And Muslim was going to be escorting him round.
And that was horror for me because he said it was a great honor, you know, that I would be escorted.
Oh, no.
And lo and behold, no chance to meditate.
What on earth am I going to do?
So as he arrived, I just stood in my little corner and asked the site, you know, what is it you want to show me?
And immediately I got acknowledgement and activation, woof, like that from absolutely nowhere.
And then as they were going around, he let the minister go right down to the level in the site of the first temple, one of the big or the second one, one of the big pillars.
And I was helped down to stand at the base of the actual pillar.
And honestly, I touched the pillar and it was alive.
The energy in that pillar was absolutely phenomenal.
So, you know, you go in that state, but you also go try to get rid of expectations and so on.
I just thought it was.
I think that's actually very true.
Like the best laid plans, as they say, you always have to sort of go with the flow and figure out where the force, as I call it, the force wants you to be and what, you know, and draws you and to follow that and to listen to that.
And of course, magical things happen when you do.
So this is also a wonderful thing about travel in general, that the most magical things happen when you allow.
And rather than sometimes you just can't follow an itinerary, you know, to the letter.
You really got to go with it.
And having guides that also are open to that idea and groups as well that are open to that is very crucial.
So yes, I mean, I agree.
I think it's a wonderful, you know, it's a metaphor for life, if you will, that sort of whole idea of a journey and that the journey doesn't always take you where you expect to go.
But sometimes the place that it brings you is much more, you know, magical and meant to be, obviously.
And don't you meet amazing people on the way?
Amazing, totally.
And this is where, you know, you really begin to, you know, I see that people are completely lovable everywhere, all over the planet.
And I have an incredible view of humanity as a result because of my travels, actually, and because of all the wonderful hearted people where they, you know, they help you at every juncture.
Because when you're traveling, you're quite vulnerable, as you may agree, especially as a woman, not knowing, like, if you don't know the language and the customs and various things.
And they are, they're what I find everywhere is incredibly wonderful, gentle people that will, you know, guide you and help you and want to do so, like, and giving and won't even allow you to give them anything in return at times.
And then there's other times when they do want the money, you know, they want money because they have none in those, some of these places where they're quite poor.
But it doesn't matter, you know what I mean?
To a lot of times, in our case, what we would think of, because I actually had to caution people because they would not like being asked for money.
And yet the actual money they're being asked for, from our perspective, is nothing.
It's like five dollars or ten dollars, and it may not even equal five or ten in like American money or British money, if you understand what I'm saying.
So, it's I, you know, it's very important to have generosity of heart when you're traveling, I believe.
And I think it encourages that idea to understand that your what you put value on is different than what they put value on, and their perspective is completely different.
It doesn't matter how much TV they see, you know, their lives are different.
So, um, understanding that and being able to communicate, regardless of the language.
Um, there's a frozen going.
So, is there anything that you would like to talk about?
Any more?
Uh, just we won't stay on much longer, but any more anecdotal stories that each of you might have that you've had in your travels that you think is you know a special story or even just to talk about a certain site that you want to bring to people's attention.
Oh, dear.
Um, I can't think, my brain's just gone numb, uh, sadly.
Well, are you still?
Let me ask you both this: are you still let's say COVID aside?
Let's say, um, oh, I think we just um, I think we just lost yes.
She has come back in, she shouldn't, so maybe she'll she'll join us.
No, maybe her thing, yes.
Uh, if that's okay, I can fix it in the in the edit after the show.
So, in your case, are you still traveling?
Are you know, if if COVID wasn't an issue, would you still be traveling?
Um, um, I don't think so because I am 88 years old, which um, I will go to um, maybe I might go to the Isles of Scilly and places like that, but I don't think I have the desire actually to travel really very much.
I have here on my land, I have 12 acres of land, and on it, we have got um, we have built a stone circle, which yes, which has got them, and we have got inside the stone circle a glyph which is in the shape of the seed of life.
If you know what that looks like, it was um, the seed of life was put on the stone at Abydos.
Yes, the flower, we call it the flower of life.
We've cut that out of the in the field, a big seed of life and stone circles around it.
And we, um, that was since 1998, I think we put that down.
And since then, we have had all the Celtic ceremonies, the eight ceremonies throughout the year we hold here.
In fact, we've got one coming up, the equinox on Sunday when we're holding the Celtic ceremony.
And we also have on our land, which was put down by a Hopi, a Hopi circle, which the Hopi man put down.
He was asked by Titus, who was the head of the Hopis, that he was to go around the world putting down these one-hearted peace Hopi circles.
And he came down to my land and we had a ceremony.
People came and we held a ceremony, and this Hopi circle was put down.
Um, in a whole day, we had the ceremony.
Um, and there we also light a big fire in the middle and we share music, poems, and we have a wonderful ceremony, each of the eight ceremonies, the wheel of the year.
Oh, that's so lovely.
So, I mean, also, um, um, I Hamish and I used to teach dowsing workshops, but um, uh, I have passed that on to another couple because it's difficult for me to do it on my own now.
And um, we, but we run what we call um trenchrom dowsers, and we have meetings and Zoom talks.
And in the summer, we go out in groups for the picnic to the ancient sites, um, and dows, and we, you know, we share.
So, um, we're still, I'm still really very into it.
I have loads of people, even in the COVID time, wanting to come and walk my land.
And in fact, two weekends ago, sadly, I had a funeral service.
A lady who had been coming to our ceremonies sadly died and her family bought her coffin.
And we had a most wonderful ceremony on our land.
So, yeah.
So now, where in England is your land?
It's way down in Cornwall.
And in fact, you can see on Google Earth, you can see our seed of life and our stone circle very clearly on Google Earth.
Excellent.
Well, you know, if it works out, we're hoping to, I do a yearly conference in England, actually.
It's called Awake and Aware.
And it takes place in a manor in, let's see, the name of the town is.
Down in Cornwall?
No, it's not in Cornwall, however.
But it sounds like it might be possible to visit your land at some point with the group.
Yes.
So it's High Elms Manor is the name of the, it's an old manor house and it's in, trying to remember some reason, the exact name of the town.
It's right, it's near St. Albans and that area where it's located only more in the country.
And so that's where we hold it, this small conference yearly.
But it sounds like very, I'm sure Maria, you know, Maria Wheatley, then she would also be very interested in coming down to your land, perhaps at some point.
So I'm glad you're welcome.
If you are just two of you or on your own or anything, I have a completely self-catering little, I call it a shed, but it's far greater than a shed, really, where people can come and just stay.
Fabulous.
Anyway.
All right.
Well, that's so well done.
Thank you.
Thank you.
That's lovely.
So, Rose, you came back in and don't worry because we can fix all of this in the edit.
I'm glad you made it back.
You froze and I disappeared.
All right.
Well, here you are.
And what I was asking right before you left, and I don't know if you heard the whole question, but it was, so we've heard from Ba on this.
I wanted to know if you're still traveling and whether you're still, you know, going through these things that if COVID wasn't in factor, would you still be going to various places, etc.
Not recently.
I mean, my difficulty here, my partner who does the driving and is my gateway, if you like, my gatekeeper, he works in tourism in the summer.
So it has to be spring or autumn.
He works in villas.
He's a wonderful, he comes from Gaziante and he's a wonderful chef.
So he chefs privately in villas and is very popular and does really well.
But I mean, I was going to say my sadness, actually, you were talking about people as I disappeared or you disappeared or whoever, is this disconnect between people.
You know, I spend most of my time in the home or a garden and I look up and see on television this strange world where people are covering their faces.
Terrible.
And you know, where you can't see who people are.
You can't see smiles.
I don't recognize people.
Yeah, you don't recognize them.
And there's a tendency not to even want to engage with them when all you see is a mask.
The beautiful thing is that if you see people without, you know they're part of your tribe.
Secret smiles.
We haven't been because Gubekli Tepe seemed to be what I'm connected with and I love Shandi Urfa.
I love it to pieces.
I just love being there.
And you know, it has the oldest market, they say, in the world.
And that was a bizarre market.
Yeah, it's unbelievable.
Oh, it's lovely.
And it's very, very sad that you won't have this young man who we, you know, the authority there.
I think this is one of the reasons we haven't gone because he showed us around.
He showed us the best places to eat.
He opened all sorts of doors for us.
And it's kind of felt not possible.
And I go where I'm called.
Yeah.
But I haven't been called back.
And when I saw, it was Emris who posted your video, and I saw you going round Gobeki Tepe.
And I knew I had to contact you.
And I thought we would meet in Gobeki Tepe.
That was my idea when you came.
And we could introduce you to this young man and you could have a chance to talk to him.
I had no idea you would say, well, come on my show, which gave me quite a shock.
I'm absolutely delighted.
I'm delighted, I must say.
I just knew I would feel at home and I do.
Thank you so much.
Well, it's been so lovely to talk to both of you and sort of reminisce about these various magical places.
And I'm sure there's a lot more to talk about.
If anything occurs to you, do contact me.
And thank you for sharing the stories that you have.
And certainly about the white lions, I'm very drawn to lions in general.
I wanted to save the lions in Egypt that are being mistreated in the zoo.
And I'm very concerned about that.
I put the word out last time when I came back from Egypt.
I also tried to talk to the authorities, who, of course, wouldn't listen.
But the animals are, I'm sorry, but the lions are not well treated in the Cairo Zoo, which is right across the street from an incredibly beautiful, I think it's the Four Seasons Hotel.
It's an older Four Seasons, but it's the most elegant.
It's absolutely spectacular in case you've never been.
Highly recommend it.
But it is right across the street and you can hear the lions roaring all night long.
But some of the lions are mistreated.
And it's very obvious it's not a secret.
And I don't know why or what goes on there.
I really don't understand it.
I've talked to, tried to get the word out, but it's a, you know, it's a political football, really, dealing with the antiquities and Egypt and all of that.
And, you know, if they hear this video, they won't be happy, of course, for me to say this.
But perhaps it'll galvanize someone to move on this because I haven't been able to make any inroads to try to save the lions of Cairo.
Nonetheless, you know, the lions have always been in Egypt guarding even the underground tunnels.
No, I didn't.
Yes.
I've not been drawn to Egypt at all, but I didn't know that about the lions or the tunnels.
Yes, it's known and they're raised in Egypt, you know, even for this job to guard the tunnels.
And so it's an old, incredible, you know, ancient.
Where are the tunnels?
Are they, where are the tunnels?
Under the pyramids, under, you know, underground, there's a terrific amount of underground tunnels in Egypt.
Yes.
Every ancient site has tunnels under it.
I think what they're used for, no, some of them lead between the sites, so they connect the sites.
Some of them are, of course, it's all, you know, mostly they're not open to the public.
They're known to be there, and they have been there since ancient days.
And so they were a way to go in between the various sites.
You can go from the Sphinx, obviously, under the various pyramids, as well as out, well, connecting Saqqara, for example, to the Great Pyramid, which is quite a distance, and so on.
What was I going to say?
Were they for safety to go down in the tunnels for some reason?
Well, there may be elements of that, but they were, as I say, used in the old days.
And of course, the ancient sort of old wise men that hang around the temples and are always there know the secrets.
They know all of this and where they are and how to get in and out and so on, but they're not shared with.
And there's hidden places that they found.
In other words, as excavated as Egypt is, it's got a tremendous unexcavated area, just tremendous finds that are still waiting to be discovered.
And that's true of many of these places that we talk about.
In other words, in the case of Gobekli Teppi, they're actually, as I say, planting and putting soil on top of places to make sure you don't go.
They don't go any further.
But perhaps this will change in the future, and there will be a change in attitude, and these things will be opened again once again.
They're secrets.
I think we have a role.
I was talking last night with the connecting consciousness, the three of us, and something for me is starting to come through about we need to take action where we are, I think.
And, you know, Emris himself has a gong and he was playing the gong and making whale sounds.
I have friends moving out to Turkey who are musicians who have cymbals and gongs and they do chanting and drumming.
And I really think that we need to work with the earth on this.
And that might, and Bar knows something about this with the Fountain International group, where you can find the energy centers in your own region.
And if you look up Fountain International, you can work with that.
And I think I've just been saddling albumin into action.
But if we start to work in this way, and if we use sound and if we use voice and intention and working together, we can change where we actually are rather than you can't do much internationally on a large scale, but people underestimate what you can do in your own region.
And politically and so on, it obviously isn't working.
So I think we've got to change back slightly.
And that's come in yesterday and is quite exciting.
I wanted to ask you, you can answer a mystery for me.
You've been down to the Cisterna in Istanbul.
Oh, yes.
What do you pick up there?
Oh, it's a very fascinating place.
And in fact, I've made a documentary of that as well.
Recently, we've.
Is that available?
Yes, it's online.
So I mean, you might search under Turkey and I can find it and send you the link anyway.
But we filmed down there and you have to be very careful.
You know, they have the gigantic head of Medusa and it's turned upside down on purpose.
And so it sits there upside down.
I mean, that's what they did because they came in later and decided that that was, you know, anti, you know, I guess, you know, anti-Christian rights and that they knew better.
And so that's how they disfigured it was by turning it upside down, but it's still there.
It's a gigantic, you know, it's very gigantic.
I mean, it's, it's, you know, almost as tall as I can.
I've seen it.
I mean, when I first went to Turkey, my daughter met a Turk and I went over for the wedding.
Amazing.
And I was told by somebody, a friend of mine from Cornwall, who'd moved out to Istanbul, you've got to go to the Cisterna.
People don't know about it.
It's called the Cisterna.
It's an underground place.
Underneath the waterworks place underneath, you mean?
Yes.
Oh, yeah, you've been having it.
Yeah, yeah.
And he said, go before everybody else came in.
So I was there first thing in the morning before anybody else.
And they played music.
They play music down there.
It's amazing.
Well, now it's being renovated.
And Kazim and I have been three times to get really the first time there was a three-hour queue.
But you can't, it's mostly shut off now.
It's horrid.
But a friend of mine who's a shaman said it's a very wicked and evil place, but I didn't pick that up.
Well, I think it's again, you get into this kind of idea that it's been used for various rituals and quite possibly there have been some very dark ages.
I do feel that in Turkey when I'm going through the ancient sites, there are underground places.
In fact, well, I'll send you my recent interview that I did, in which we have photographs and so on of these underground places that we went.
And even in them, I did get some negative energy.
But the cistern, it's quite big.
So it will have different feelings in different areas of the cistern.
One thing that is fascinating is that they have, you're right, one of the things they've done recently is drain it of water.
So the beautiful water that was added to the theatrical sort of.
The reflection of some things.
Yes, magical quality of it.
The sound must be different without the water there.
Oh, yes.
And they also, you know, they try to stop you from, they try to make you go along in a certain way and lit it in a certain way.
So it's, you know, it's terrible the way they've done things.
And I've got, again, film of all that.
And I can tell you that there are pillars.
They're carvings on the pillars that show, you know, what in essence is this.
They call it the third eye.
That's what they like.
Yeah, I've seen that.
The pillars, yes.
But actually, I think it's pod beings that they're actually depicting.
I don't actually think they're all third eye.
I think there are different carvings there.
They've tried to hide.
There's areas of the cistern that are purposely made very dark so that you can't go there and can't see what's carved on those pillars inside.
So it's a very mysterious place.
It's a very beautiful place.
At least it has been, you know, when I've been there.
And I've now been there twice, I guess it is.
And I was there this summer and they're just starting to kind of try to, you know, drain the water and really control it and all of this stuff.
And that wasn't happening last time I was there.
So, yeah, I think it's like, I do think that it's, you know, you're talking about a mixed bag because you have to go all through ancient Rome and Greece and, and the, the, you know, before it was Constantinople and that when it was thriving at a certain point and then sort of the infiltration.
But it's older than Roman, huh?
Oh, it's, I think it's quite old.
I don't actually, I can bring it up and see what they have to say about it as far as I actually, I just brought up, I'm not a fan of Wikipedia, to be honest, but.
It is useful sometimes.
Yeah.
So it's come up.
This is basically, can you see it there?
Yeah.
And so I, it's the sixth, well, it says it was built in the sixth century during the Byzantine emperor.
And it's, but it is a really magical place.
And in fact, when I went there, I was so surprised by how amazing it was that I, I didn't understand why it was such a big secret, like nobody and there's the Medusa head upside down.
So it's somehow, yeah, it's hard to get in there, but like lines and all of that tourists, but you, you know, when I was there, it was almost empty.
So, you know, the first time around.
Well, the first time there was no one, I was there on my own and I was, I was blown away.
I've also been told that the tunnels go back for seven kilometers or so beyond what we can actually see.
Under the city.
Yeah.
Because of course they're going under the blue mosque, which is right next door.
And also the Hagia Sophia temple.
And then Topkapi Palace is right there as well.
Does it go under there as well?
Sorry?
They're all right next to each other.
I love that region.
I just love it.
I'm not a city person, but I love Istanbul.
It's, it's a lovely, you know, city.
It's, it's a lovely, you know, place to.
we spent hours and hours wandering around there.
And each time you go, I've got a friend who lives there now from New Zealand.
And Kazan goes to see his family.
And last time I stayed on, and I met up with Natasha and she's showing me all sorts of places, little old ancient Christian churches.
There's one that's still, you're not supposed to photograph.
And the guy actually let us again, one of these magical things, he said, come out, I won't tell anybody, and you can just take some photos just quickly.
Absolutely.
It's just magical things happen in Turkey.
They really do.
Yes, it's, you know, and the people, again, beautiful people.
The food is amazing, incredibly fresh, very, very good.
And I'm sure you know that living in Turkey.
You have some.
And it's close to its origin.
I mean, in the cities, you get it brought in.
But here, there's not much length of journey import.
It's mostly grown close by.
Yes.
And we need to focus on that in the near future, I feel, because I feel the food is the food system is going to be threatened.
Do you remember when you phoned me?
I was in the middle of making nettle soup.
Oh, yeah.
And I have just got the last bit of the nettle soup that I made.
I put it in the freezer to have tonight.
Are you waiting for your supper?
I think I am.
Well, I. Oh, well, we're going to wrap this up anyway, but it's been a delight.
It's quarter past 11 here.
It's quarter past 11.
Yes, I understand.
I've so enjoyed it.
Thank you.
Thank you so much.
Well, it's been so much fun.
And we could go on for hours, obviously.
I'd love to have you both back.
So please do keep me in mind.
And if anything occurs to you that you'd like to talk about, or you've got a new something that comes from even from your past that you didn't touch on that you think is really important for people to know, my door's open over here.
So thank you so much.
Thank you.
Thank you.
And thanks to Bar, this lady who said I have nothing.
Well, I still don't think I measured much, but still, there you go.
And just to say to you, Kerry, if you come down to Cornwall, do contact and me.
I will.
Good.
I would love to.
I think it sounds fascinating.
We'd love to come to your land and see what you've got there.
And you have to see what they've done.
I think we planted over 2,000 trees.
There were no trees on our land at all.
And now it's a woodland.
Oh, that's you have to go and see it.
It is extraordinary what they did, the two of them.
And what Baskin is full of magical places.
So I love going there.
And I go there often.
So I wish you a good night and thank you.
Lovely to see you, Rose.
And you.
I shall see you in Cornwall when they open it up to me again.
And Kerry, I hope to see you in Turkey this year in Shabbat.