Project Camelot - *RE-UPLOAD* ROUNDTABLE W/ ROSE SHUTTLEWORTH & BA MILLER: GOBEKLI TEPE & ANCIENT SITES

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Aug. 31, 2025 - Project Camelot

01:59:59

RE-UPLOAD ROUNDTABLE W/ ROSE SHUTTLEWORTH & BA MILLER: GOBEKLI TEPE & ANCIENT SITES

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	Hi everyone, I'm Carrie Cassidy from Project Camelot and very happy to be here today.
	So we're going to have a fascinating show.
	We're going to be talking about Gobekli Tepe and other ancient sites and we've got two explorers with us and we're going to find out more about them.
	So one person is Rose Shuttleworth and the other is Ba Miller as they call her and I guess Ba is short for Barbara, is that correct?
	Barbara.
	Barbara.
	Okay.
	Very good.
	So here we are and I have your pictures on hand as well to share with people.
	If you decide you'd like to do that, I can, you know, bring them up on the screen as we go.
	So let's start with Rose.
	Rose, why don't you introduce yourself and talk a little bit about who you are, how you got started in this field and anything you'd like to say.
	Make it fairly brief because this is just an introduction.
	Right.
	I think looking back, I was thinking about it this evening.
	I've always been an explorer.
	My name is Rose Shuttleworth.
	I was born just before the Second World War.
	And at the age of 10, I started to wake up and want to know what on earth was going on around me and what life was about.
	And I went through all sorts of things brought up in the Christian church and explored different isms, including Sufism and communism.
	that only lasted about three weeks and then then i became a school teacher art and craft teacher and got involved at some stage with the Gurgif Bennett movement.
	And I was in the south east of England.
	And when I came to retirement age, I returned to Cornwall where I'd been as a child and I decided to move down there.
	In fact, I didn't know whether to go down or not.
	I had been down on a brief trip with some friends and absolutely fallen in love with it again.
	And I said to life, if you want me down there, make it available.
	And it did suddenly.
	My job went out from under my feet and my mother became better.
	And I was terrified because I could then actually go and do what.
	what I said I wanted to do.
	And very quickly, when I was down in Cornwall, I met someone, a potential author, writer, went to a meeting where she was talking about the landscape zodiac.
	Her name, Bao will know, is Sheila Jeffreys, and she's now become a very prolific author of children's books with a spiritual base usually.
	And she, she from that point, she introduced me, she spoke to angels and she spoke to fairies, and I had never met people like that.
	I had been with Sufism and Gurgif, and it was very strict.
	and very masculine.
	So I got, I didn't know what to do.
	And I saw nobody was laughing at the idea of angels and things like this.
	So I decided to suspend disbelief because that was all I could do.
	And I've done that ever since.
	I did that when COVID started, and that is quite an interesting way of working because you leave everything open and you stop judging to some extent as much as you can ever do.
	But when I got to know Sheila, she said, you have to go and meet Barr and Hamish, who are authors of these amazing books with Earth Energy Lines.
	And I went up and just appeared on the doorstep.
	I don't expect Barr remembers and said, I've come to meet you, is that okay?
	And that started for me, Barr was already on that journey, that started for me an amazing journey.
	It changed my life.
	And I'll leave it at that point, I think.
	Okay, wonderful beginning.
	And Ba, can you introduce yourself and talk a bit?
	I understand that Hamish is someone that you traveled with and wrote the books with, but he is no longer with us.
	So why don't you sort of, you know, speak for yourself, but if you want to bring him in, you're welcome to do so.
	Right, can you hear me?
	Oh, yes.
	Yeah, I didn't know whether I was still on mute anyway.
	Well, after Rose's wonderful talk about her life, I don't know, I haven't got that much to say.
	I was a physiotherapist.
	I worked as a physiotherapist for a very long time and really loved the work.
	Then sadly I have three boys.
	Sadly, my marriage.
	kind of came to an end, the father of the boys.
	And I went up to Scotland on an island miles away to try and work out what I wanted to do in life on the isle of Skye.
	And from there, I came down to Cornwall where I met Hamish.
	And Hamish taught me to dowse, which was an amazing entrance into the sixth sense, really.
	And he was.
	He was in the process of dowsing a line which ran from Land's End in England right the way diagonally across to Norfolk and picking up ancient sites which he had finished.
	And then we heard from two French people about a line which runs.
	I'm sure both these lines go right around the world, but we just did these sections and they talked about a line of St. Michael's sites from Ireland all the way down to the Holy Land.
	And so we said, oh, let's start doing that.
	And I felt, I shall never live long enough to even finish this great journey.
	It took us ten years, and it was an amazing journey following this line, which was talked about and written about by these two French people called the Richer brothers.
	And then we, a book was written about it, which we called The Dance of the Dragon, the Dragon Energy Dancing Down.
	dancing down across the land.
	We also went to New Zealand after that, which was a wonderful introduction to the ancient, ancient people that lived in New Zealand before the Maori.
	And we met a man who introduced us and took us around New Zealand and showed us sites that only he really knew and the actual New Zealanders had no idea.
	Anyways, so that is vaguely where I come in, actually.
	Okay, and eventually you you wrote did you cut co-write those books?
	Well, we yes, we wrote a book about the one in New Zealand, got it here somewhere anyway.
	Yes, and yeah, it was an amazing time of my life, really.
	I love New Zealand.
	Okay, so the way we connected was that Rose contacted me and she was talking about Gobekli Tepe.
	And I think Rose, you might have seen our documentary on Gobekli Tepe.
	Was that how you found out?
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	And you, you know, so you said some things that were quite lovely about it and your own experience in Gobekli Tepe.
	And so what I'd like to do is obviously you both have seen different areas of the world.
	I know that you've gone other places as well, Rose.
	So maybe we can start, you know, just going around and you could maybe talk about.
	perhaps about I know are you actually in Turkey right now, Rose?
	I live in Turkey.
	I've been here for nearly 15 years.
	Okay.
	And that's interesting because the regime has actually changed tactics, if you will, recently.
	I had some friends there that actually left.
	They were British and they felt it became too restrictive to continue.
	I hope that's not the case for you.
	I was there actually during COVID in the, I think it was this summer around.
	I love Turkey.
	I was in Istanbul and we ended up there by accident.
	We were on our way to Greece and they didn't let us in.
	So we decided to we like Turkey and Turkey was letting us in.
	So we went just for a couple of weeks to Turkey.
	We didn't get to travel around like we normally would like to do, but we did get to spend some time.
	You know, there are ancient sites right within the city, of course, in Istanbul and fascinating the cistern and so on.
	So maybe you can talk about your journeys and also how you got into this country.
	into moving further along and how you actually stuck with this sort of this as making it, I guess, a kind of life's work, would you call it that or?
	Yes, it's I mean, it's not what I planned to do.
	I planned to be in Turkey for a year because I knew I had to leave Cornwall.
	My inner voice was so insistent that I it's like a tapping, I call it.
	And I knew I had to leave, but I didn't know where to go.
	And then my daughter met a Turk and had a wedding, so I came out to Turkey and I've always said Turkey isn't my place.
	I was blown away completely by it.
	It was fantastic.
	And came out for a holiday for a year and never went back really.
	I met my Turkish partner and never went back.
	But in the first two years or first year or two years, I got very concerned about the behavior of people.
	I was very judgmental, extremely judgmental at that stage.
	And I felt we needed to bring the healers.
	I had met Barn, Hamish and others.
	We used to do regular festivals throughout the year, the sun festivals and the earth festivals.
	And I felt it would be really useful for them to come out.
	And nobody would take any notice until Hamish had a friend in Southern Africa who was into dowsing and energy lines and said that the main energy line that runs north south from South Africa was blocked up at the Chimera.
	Now, I didn't even know at that stage that Turkey had a Mount Olympus.
	I had been in Greece and lived in Greece for a while.
	And Turkey has the most beautiful Mount Olympus.
	And the lower slopes have this wonderful Chimera where there are flames, permanent flames coming out of the hillside.
	So suddenly this whole group formed in May 2007, I think it was, and I think nineteen healers came over from England ostensibly to work on the energy line there.
	And Barr may have something to say about that.
	It was it was an amazing experience.
	We did work on the line, but Barr and Hamish worked together because where the main energy lines cross there's always a node.
	And Barr, I'm sure Barr can say more about that.
	She's the expert in that field.
	Well, I think what I found that the Chimera was on the Old Meridian, which I had learned about, which ran up through Africa,
	and it was up the line that Credo drew on his map went up through the top and egypt went across the mediterranean went across and up through turkey right through the chimera if you remember do you remember that it was the old meridian which has now been changed it's not the meridian that we use now and then when we doused at the Chimera,
	we found that there was a line going longitudinally through because Turkey is really the country which joins East and West, sits in between.
	And the line, the longitude of this line went through and went straight to Washington.
	Do you remember that?
	Washington, DC.
	Yes.
	And we thought, wow.
	Anyway, so we felt it was quite an auspicious spot to do all the healing to try and heal the problems that were happening in the East, in Iraq and around there and the West.
	So that's really why we came, I think, and worked on that part of the line at the Chimera.
	Oh, fascinating.
	So can you tell me whereabouts this line started?
	Are you saying that it originated in South Africa?
	I've been to South Africa to Adam's Calendar, in case you're familiar with that.
	that and but I'm curious where this line originated.
	Well, look, may I may I may I'm sorry I interrupted you here.
	Can you tell the story bar of meeting Credo Mutwa?
	Well, because I actually had the honor of meeting Credo Mutwa and he he helped them talk about that energy line.
	Do you remember?
	Yeah, he was the leader of the Zulus, wasn't he?
	Or whatever.
	Spiritual leader, yeah.
	Spiritual leader, yes.
	Yeah, we were very lucky.
	We had a meeting with him and he drew us this map.
	showing us because we said that we'd picked up an amazing line coming up through South Africa.
	We picked it up on the top of Table Mountain.
	And these lines, we felt these lines were lines which go right round the world.
	They are sort of like our nervous energy, nervous roots in our body.
	The world, the earth is like a human being and the lines that we pick up are like its nervous system.
	And he drew this line all the way up and it went through the Rift Valley where ancient remains of civilization had been found and on up through the Egypt, the pyramids and across and through up to Turkey and through the Chimera and on on up.
	But of course, we never followed it on.
	We didn't have time.
	We just took the option and the we felt that just meeting at the chimera and doing our work there on this line would have an effect all the way around the line, of course.
	Sure.
	Now, your book that you wrote with Hamish is I haven't had time to look at it.
	So it is about, is it about the Ley lines?
	Because, you know, there's been a lot of study and books come out about the various Ley lines.
	So you're talking about the Michael and Mary line and other Ley lines around the earth.
	There are other kinds of lines as well.
	So what specifically are you talking about there?
	Well, I wasn't really with Hamish when he was doing the Michael and Mary, which are the ones that he picked up going across England.
	Of course, they go around the world because in fact we went to Russia and we found them passing just below Finland actually anyway so I was mainly with him doing the ones from going down to Israel from the Skelet Michael which is an amazing pinnacle
	of rock just off Ireland where there is an ancient ancient beehive monasteries on top of this where the very, very old people lived because they felt Ireland was too crowded anyway.
	And then we followed this line by dowsing all the way down from Ireland across the tow of Cornwall over to Mont Saint Michel in France, all the way down through France through various places,
	amazing places, over the Alps, down through Italy and over to Greece, down through Greece, through the islands, and we ended at Mount Carmel where the Richer brothers finished their description of this line.
	But in fact, we decided that we would just follow it a little bit further on while we were in the Holy Land, which was at a time when it was not very easy.
	were very suspicious of us and we had to be incredibly careful.
	But anyway, we found it
	It's just the few people in the world today that are keeping that aggro going.
	But the actual place of Medico was fantastic, was absolutely an amazing place.
	That's where we left the line.
	We went onto a ridge and could see the direction it was going.
	It was going into Jordan.
	And we felt, no, we're not going any further.
	We're going to stop here.
	And that's what we did.
	Okay, yes.
	I think you're talking about Megiddo.
	Is that the...
	the right place to go medigo or medigo okay uh yes i will look it up but i believe you know, I have been there.
	And up on top of the mountain there in Jordan, the border of Jordan and I believe Israel, if I'm right.
	And that's actually where the supposed battle took place and a very interesting site for sure energetically.
	So that's fascinating.
	Now you use Daosing.
	I have interviewed a woman and she actually we lead tours in Egypt and other places actually.
	We went around the stone circles in Bahrain.
	in Britain not that long ago as well.
	And that is Maria Wheatley.
	And her father was an expert douser and known to dous for the Queen of England when he was still alive.
	She's basically inherited his work, if you will, written her own books and and become an expert.
	I met her.
	I know her.
	Okay, very good.
	Yeah.
	So she and I go go every year to Egypt, although last year we were, of course, not able to go.
	And this year is looking quite difficult as well.
	We're waiting for the whole COVID thing to blow over.
	So, okay, so let's go back to Rose.
	And Rose, did you also, you learned to be a dowser as well?
	Was that something?
	No, I No, I've tried pendulum and I've tried dowsing, but I'm so strong willed that I interfere.
	I'm very aware that I will interfere and manipulate.
	If I do that kind of work now, I ask soul or I ask heart.
	And I find that and a yes, no answer if possible.
	And I find that that is less open to my own ego interference or whatever.
	But I mean, what happened next?
	When Bar came over and we did that healing work, she bought she discovered the white lions of South Africa and bought an article about the white lions.
	And I found that so fascinating and I thought I'd like to investigate this.
	And I was, I think, in Top Ness some year or two later and I walked into the Arcturus of all names, of all bookshops, and there lying on the table in front of me was the white lions of Timbovarti.
	And it's like I was pulled in.
	It was one of those occasions.
	And it is just amazing that Linda Tucker wrote on in consultation with Credo Mutua.
	And the White Lions were said to be present in the beginning times and the end times.
	And I think the tale of the African Shame people said that when the White Lions start appearing again at that point in southern Africa, it means we are in the end times.
	So I had to go and investigate there.
	It didn't actually find what I thought I had set out to do, but we did work on the energy line down there with a group of people that we were with.
	We also found two amazing places where the energy was so powerful you could hardly stand up.
	And one was very clearly a place of landing and departure.
	And the other, I clearly got the kind of image of a lion.
	It was like a lion rock.
	So I mean, I share your meaning.
	So whereabouts, what was this and that you were talking, the very powerful place?
	This would be the Low Veld.
	I can't, I should have, I should have picked up the name of that.
	We stayed, we stayed in Johannesburg, and then we moved out to the Low Veld to the Kruger on the edge of the Kruger National Park.
	And oh, it blew me away.
	It's God's country.
	Yeah, you know.
	Well, I perhaps this is where Michael Tellinger is.
	I, you know, in Adam's calendar might be in the same general area.
	I'm not sure.
	But yeah, we went.
	We went there.
	And actually, I just watched Sasha Stone's work with the two who do the reading, Elena, and I can't remember his name now.
	I'm sorry, I'm going blank.
	The scalar readings and Michael Challenger there.
	We went to Adam's calendar and we did a meditation and it had the two of us there in tears.
	I don't know why it was just so moving.
	And as we left, this huge bird, which I was told was a secretary bird, flew in front of the Jeep and escorted us out.
	And it's evidently quite a powerful South African birds there.
	So that wasn't necessarily connected with Gobekli Tepe, but it was connected with Barr and myself, and that journey led on down there.
	Fascinating, yes.
	Well, the white lions, you may or may not know about the work of Ashiana Dean, and she talks about the white lion.
	Anyway, so it's a white lion, and the white lions are very symbolic, and of course the lions in general.
	So that's I have a great interest in that myself.
	And I was very aware of the white of the lions in the area where Michael Tellinger is, which was probably very similar to where you were when you went down there.
	And it is not that far from Adam's calendar as well.
	No, it was fascinating to go around.
	We stayed at Timbovarti for a short time and went out on safaries in the morning.
	And for someone who is absolutely spider phobic to be driving through these great nets of enormous spiders, that was quite a challenge.
	But we did actually see the pride of lions, the very, very pale ones that were set to do the breeding for the next generation because the white lion, I can't remember the name of the baby that Linda so loved, had been born and everybody was very excited about that.
	But because of their inexperience, there wasn't enough land to feed the lions and they were burrowing.
	And this very special baby, this special female was burrowing and got buried alive and died.
	So that was very, very, very tragic.
	And I now subsequently coming to Turkey and meeting up in Turkey eventually with the Gobekli Tepe trail, I've lost touch with the African I mean, I have friends down there still from my visit, but I've lost touch with that energy, if you like.
	Okay.
	So as far as going, okay, so somehow you ended up in Gobekli Tepe.
	So let's let's go to that and talk a bit about it.
	I don't know if Ba and and Seamus went to Gobekli Tepe as well.
	I did, yes.
	Okay.
	Seamus sadly had had passed over by that time.
	I came over.
	I joined her group and came with the group and met up with you, Rose, didn't I?
	That was right.
	That was right at the end of the journey.
	I'd wanted you to come.
	I never told you, but I'd wanted you to come right from the beginning because I knew of your dowsing abilities.
	And it was 2010 that we met a friend who had come on that chimera trip.
	And she told me about the film of Gobek Ketepe and what she told me about the animals scripted on the stone and how this was changing history.
	And also I think I read articles and it didn't make any sense at all that the very earliest temples that were built there were the most proficient, the most skillful.
	And everything as time progressed became less and less skillful.
	And that to me pointed to intelligence from elsewhere, whether it be human or otherwise that came in, because the norm is to build your skill slowly.
	And so the bells rang and I knew my curiosity.
	I had to get down there.
	So Casim is absolutely fantastic.
	He loves, he's not quite as into this as I am in that kind of depth, but he was very willing to come along and in November we went down.
	And honestly, I'm so glad we did because it was open, it was raw and the energy was fresh, if you like.
	By the time this was 2010, by the time your group got their bar is 2014.
	There was building and there's all the new stuff that's there and it's no longer open to the skies.
	And the first thing we knew when we got there was in meditation anyway and Chasm went off to talk to the guardian and he picked up the same thing.
	It is so connected to the stars.
	Oh, absolutely.
	That was his purpose.
	Astronomically, that was what they wanted to do, to join.
	They wanted to.
	It was.
	There had been an enormous amount of destruction by comets and things hitting the earth and destruction before ten thousand years ago over that time.
	And they built these things to be able to watch the sky and kind of time the things to be aware of what was probably going to hit the earth.
	They were astronomical buildings that they were building, definitely because the two great big central monoliths there on the site, as you remember, I when I came over, we went round.
	And actually it was right at the beginning.
	There wasn't too much.
	We didn't have to pay to go in and it was all open.
	We could just walk around, which was wonderful.
	And the next day was a free day with the group and I felt I wanted to go back there on my own.
	So I hired a taxi and one girl wanted to come with me.
	And she came and we went back and we spent the day on our own walking around.
	And I used my dowsing rod and was just peacefully meditating and working out the intricacies of this amazing site.
	It really was amazing, thinking how old it was and the beautiful sculptures engraved on these huge monoliths.
	Anyway, I found that the energy lines coming in were crossing at the in the center, or they were crossing in the center, but they had been distorted and they weren't crossing in the center anymore.
	and I just wondered why that had been it had almost as if it the place had been disrupted and whether to keep it from being used in the wrong way or whether people had destroyed it because I think they thought that it had been purposely destroyed and whether it had been...
	Yes, actually.
	actually it was buried uh in at a certain point in history and uh because they knew there was a coming flood or something of that nature.
	They didn't in order to protect the stones and all of that.
	So then I think even it's still not been completely excavated.
	I'm going to bring some of your pictures online here that Rose gave me and see if we can bring up some of the things we're talking about here because I think it will be interesting to people.
	So I'm not sure how exactly to do this.
	Oh, yes.
	Are people able to see this?
	Okay.
	So just want to click down here.
	I'm actually, I want to go to the area we're talking about.
	And this is actually an old picture of a ley line, I guess.
	And by the way, that I was talking about the white line, it's called an A pin, and I can give more information about that a little later.
	So wanted to go back here.
	And here's one of your, one of your, one of the books from Hamish.
	And so let me see if, oh gosh, these didn't, not all these came up.
	So, okay, not sure why that is.
	What is it?
	Okay, so that.
	Yeah, it's always difficult to, you know, unless you set these things up way in time.
	So stand by here.
	I'm just going to try to get this and this is a prerecord, so I will be able to take out any delays that we have while I'm trying to bring this up here.
	It's it's at least we can.
	It's not easy, is it?
	Okay, you can see that this one, which is at least one of the stones, which is quite a good depiction of it.
	One thing that came up with these totems or the strange animals was that they could have been used because a huge energy work could have gone on at this place from the stars or whatever.
	But that these symbols would have a meaning to the people who were working within the region and would give signals of different kinds.
	Right.
	Well, what we found out in essence, and I've done some investigation here is that there was a great deal of this was a place of genetic engineering of humanity that was happening and that the races that came down actually had some very diabolical intentions, it appears.
	Now, I don't know if you're aware that this is also the site in Turkey where there are ancient sects, you know, SECT sects that worship basically a sort of sacrifice.
	And it gets into what you might call the Luciferian agenda and so on.
	So we're really talking about bodies and they found bodies actually of children and other humans in that area that has been hidden by the Turkish government.
	So you cannot find them there, but they were buried all around the site in that area.
	So whether they happened simultaneously at the exact same time, whether or not there was a ritual going on that involved a sacrifice, whether that came, you know, how in the Eons.
	In the eons of history, of course, we don't know the layers of each layer when something happens versus something else.
	But I do have a sort of a military witness who has told me that there was a lot of sacrifice going on there.
	So it's quite interesting.
	Very powerful site.
	It's now there was a German explorer who, and I forget his name, but he died actually not so long ago in a very strange accident just swimming in his pool back in Germany of all things.
	So he was Klaus Schmidt.
	Yes.
	So he's the one who did the excavation at the beginning.
	Yes.
	And apparently had a certain slant and then was also locking people out.
	It was interesting because Germany took complete control over the site, even though it was in Turkey.
	So that there was some kind of political mechanisms going on, which happens with ancient sites.
	Maybe you came across that in other places as well.
	I picked that up in our early days there because he was in charge when we first went and he had complete control of everything.
	And I remember being incensed by this because not only does it belong to Turkey, but he wouldn't allow postcards or books.
	You couldn't find any information at all, whatever.
	So we always tried to go when he wasn't going to be around, so we were free.
	We did pick up on that very much.
	Yes, exactly.
	And there was something going on with all of that.
	There's a writer, an English guy, who went down to that area and actually met with one of the ancient sects that deals with sacrifice.
	And this is a very old tradition in the area apparently and their their group is sort of hidden in in the mountains.
	Well, they're still doing it, are they?
	I believe so and it's linked with something that these kinds of things that also go on, you know, these ancient sort of secret societies, if you will.
	He wrote what he did was he went there, he did a lot of investigation and I don't have his name or the name of his book in front of me, but I read his book and he took the real story and put it into the story and put it into a fiction account.
	And it does link up the secret societies in England, believe it or not, and Ireland with this particular area of the world where that this was part of the tradition and it's a hidden tradition, needless to say.
	So just saying that this is, you know, another side to Gobekli Tepe and one of the reasons why probably the Germans were so intent on secrecy with with in fact it's still if you saw my documentary you might have seen me refer to the strange way they started.
	and stopped excavations in the area.
	And they would not go all the way, basically, for some unknown reason, even today.
	The thing is, they basically halted at Gilbeckley.
	And there is something, I think, Bob, you were just saying earlier, there is something to do with actually once all the stones get set up, they would be activated.
	And if they get activated, they would form a Stargate.
	And that if that, they were in the right position, there's a harmonics to that, you know, how they're shaped.
	You know, they come up and they're they have this kind of wide top thing.
	It's actually once studied, has special harmonics to do with like a musical, almost music.
	And that once set up, then this vortex would and basically open, and it would become a sort of a Stargate opening to a certain part of the constellation out there.
	And not sure that, in other words, the thought being that they don't want that to happen, that those.
	Can I just take?
	Can I just, I'm sorry interrupting here.
	With our group, when Barr and Pauline came back with the findings, I particularly found it really exciting because this kind of what you're talking about actually came through that there was some very,
	very powerful work must have taken place there and that the carvings were this, this was you talked about this, Barr, were there for people who knew who were at that level that knew if they were not qualified that they should stay away.
	This would be warning for people who were working there but also bar introduced the guardians yes yeah but you brought you bar brought the work of um christian and um joy o'brien yes who and we were very aware that at that time they were christian the genius of the few genius of the few yeah I don't know whether Kerry,
	you've heard of this book, have you?
	No, actually I hadn't.
	It sounds fascinating.
	It is absolutely fascinating because it talks about this.
	this amazing people that lived on that area in Turkey, on that mountain range going along, which were highly intelligent.
	I mean, they did genetic breeding and they were highly advanced people.
	And in the end, finally, actually, some of them went down and mixed
	and they all had to be killed, and I'm just wondering whether that is something which came into this story that you were saying.
	But that's very interesting.
	Okay.
	Okay, they found the skulls of children buried in this vicinity.
	And actually, I was just noticing that they're you have you sent me one picture that has flame in it.
	I don't know if this is this is the place?
	The chimera, the chimera.
	Okay, so that's what you call it.
	And are you saying that it burns all the time?
	Yeah, it's flame coming out of the rocks.
	It's eternal flame.
	And this is in Turkey.
	Is it in the area of Gobekli or is it?
	No, no, this was earlier.
	This was when the group, the first group came over.
	And we did, we did work on the, there was a on the crossing of those two energy lines., there was a lemniscape pattern.
	And I'm sorry, Barr, I'm just talking.
	That's okay.
	But the, it's a figure of eight pattern.
	And the western side was smaller than the Turkish, the eastern side.
	And it needed rebalancing.
	This was the blockage in the energy lines.
	And we worked with a group of us and we used gold.
	And it was the most powerful ceremony actually I've ever been to.
	It was amazing.
	It was amazing.
	I've, yes, I because the lemniscape, the figure of eight, is the ancient symbol for balance, really.
	And it's a very old symbol.
	And yes, Hamish picked that up over that spot, I can remember, yes.
	You remember, we all sort of meditated to try and find the balance and try to get it to balance.
	And I don't know, I think we felt that it needed a lot more work on it, didn't we, Rose?
	It was it was amazing that we formed a circle and closed our eyes.
	And we were visualized a cup, I think a challenge, a filling with gold.
	And I actually saw the point at which it overflowed.
	And at that point, Beth, who was leading the ceremony, said, and the gold is now coming and it's flowing.
	At the same time, we had a German, a German, a German guy who has nothing to do with us, complaining at the top of his voice about he hated people like us who did things like this.
	It was so embarrassing.
	But, and we had children around cooking sausages around us in the fire.
	But it was an incredible ceremony.
	And afterwards, you found immediately that the rebalancing had happened.
	And he had never, Hamish had never experienced that immediate rebalancing before.
	Fascinating.
	And so, do you know the actual name of the area in Turkey where this chimera and where you did your ceremony, do you know the name of that area?
	Tirali.
	It's on Mount Olympus, isn't it?
	It's on Mount Olympus near, that's right, you said.
	Tirali.
	Jirali.
	On the lofts.
	Tirali.
	Tirali.
	Yes.
	You know, there's a Turkish woman that I often, I've interviewed her several times and she's also in an explorer and she would probably know this place.
	But I'm planning to take a group back to Turkey.
	There are many things to see there, including, you know, those really bizarre cave, that cave system that is, I forget the name of it.
	It's, anyway, it's a famous site.
	And then there are other, I don't know if you are aware, both of you, and either one of you can reply to this, but there's a huge amount of reptilian sort of inscriptions and drawings and carvings and all over on temples around the world, even gargoyles on churches and so and so, but also in the Middle East specifically a great deal of that symbolism.
	And this woman is actually an expert on that symbolism, and she takes tours around Turkey.
	But they tried to destroy the Syrian sites recently.
	They had the military going and destroying them, I believe, because they want to hide the emphasis on the reptilian domination of the planet at a certain point juncture in our history.
	I'd like to ask you a question, may I?
	Sure.
	Because I talked to Bar about this earlier in all our investigations at Gabekli Tepe.
	We didn't pick up on anything negative, anything destructive.
	The whole area was littered with arrowhead stone, you know, the carved stones.
	Earlier groups picked up that there was a portal, and that was 2012 with the great shift.
	One psychic friend picked up that deep down below that portal, and that was a guardian's.
	guardians by a dragon.
	And as far as I'm concerned, the dragon element of the reptilian group is positive, is loving and is earth guardianship.
	The rest can vary as with human beings, really.
	But we pick that up there, but none of that, the second when we had that visit with Barr, none of that came out at all.
	But none of us ever picked up anything negative or dangerous or destructive in a workshop subsequently.
	Somebody who refused to come had a vision of terrifying reptilian beings who entered somewhere in the region of Gabeketepe.
	And one of my psychic friends at that workshop said, that is the place she channeled, where they have to be told to leave.
	So this is such a mixture of stuff.
	And I've been given to understand that the reptilian group go from the very best to the very worst.
	Sure.
	You've done much more investigation into this.
	You know, I would agree, actually.
	The dragon energy, I think, is.
	is it basically, you know, even the Chinese relate to it in terms of the ultimate creative energy.
	So it is, I guess, can be, you know, fire coming out of the mouth.
	So it can be creative and it can be destructive.
	So that's the symbolism.
	But of course the Draco are, I believe predominantly, you know, sort of we see that as negative.
	They don't see it as negative, the beings themselves, of course, because they are just how they are.
	It's just that they are dangerous to humans, right?
	Because they view us as prey.
	And of course back in England, you know.
	You know, George and the dragon and going and fighting the dragons was always part of the mythology, of course, of England.
	And so it goes way back in time.
	But yes, I agree.
	There are positive Draco.
	And in fact, Mark, one of my witnesses who deals with this a lot talks about the both positive and negative.
	So there are, yeah, I would agree with you.
	This is sorry interrupting.
	This is where one has to find the balance in life.
	And as you know, Moses held up his rod and he had.
	had two serpents which makes the caduceus which makes that balanced and that was the healing rod.
	You see, that's symbolic of Kundalini energy actually going up the base of the sea.
	It balanced when it crosses and that is the important thing.
	And these ancient people, it was mentioned and talked about by these two people, Christian O'Brien, this book which I fully recommend you maybe could read.
	It's absolutely fascinating because these ancient people were called the shining ones and they were also called serpents because their faces, whether they put on something to protect their faces or whatever, or it was a custom, but they had very tall, long faces and they were called the serpents.
	And they were very, very intelligent people.
	So it's, and of course the earth energy isn't, known um is thought of as the serpent and the dragon energy and the french of course called, call it the weaver, which is the worm, the weaving, weaving snake like, so the name and people worship the snake.
	Look at the Egyptians on their helmets, they have the cobra and yes, but that is a symbol of kundalini.
	Yes, that is the raised kundalini.
	And so this is what they are depicting.
	Most people don't even archeologists don't acknowledge this, of course.
	They don't know about the Eastern tradition of understanding kundalini activation and all of that.
	And so, it's the incubation and all of that.
	So that's actually the symbol of enlightenment.
	And that's why, for example, King Tut has the cobra on top of his head coming out through the third eye as they do.
	And so, yes, it's depicted all over the world, this serpent energy, and it is symbolic of the the the the rising of the kundalini from the base of the spine, symbolizing.
	Can I say something about the dragon to add to that?
	Because we had another member of our group, Patricia, who co led both groups, was there with Bar's group and the one before that was into dragons when I was in Cornwall and she started seeing visions of dragons.
	But this was Patricia, Patricia Lango.
	And she started seeing this and she started focusing on the dragons and she was going to write a book and I'm very sorry that she didn't because she talked about Lemuria.
	Now I had a vision.
	I'm sure I was in Lemuria.
	I feel very strongly connected to that.
	And she said that the original Lemurians, the Golden Age, humans were they had faces, if you like, or structures that were slightly dragon like, which goes along with what Barr said about the Shining ones and their faces were long and slim.
	But according to her, they were the, or we or they were the first guardians of the earth.
	And what she said was, when mankind decided to play with dark energy, the dragons couldn't live with that kind of dark negativity.
	And so they went into the earth.
	And this would be when I started working with her, the early 2012, 2011, 2012, something like this, they'd started appearing again.
	And so she was the one who that saw the Black Dragon, who was the guardian of the portal in 2012.
	And that was October, just before the shift of the ages.
	And Chasm and I went back in the spring.
	That dragon wouldn't leave.
	It felt it wasn't ready to let mankind take responsibility, felt it wasn't ready.
	So we went back to check.
	And the portal had what area of the world was this?
	This was, this was Quebec Tepe.
	Okay.
	This was the earlier workshops that Barr wasn't involved with.
	And we went back to check, and I looked up my notes, and I worked with some crystal skulls that I had and sat on top of the hill, that mound, the Tepe, and was told that the dragon was still around, and what had come through was very benevolent to the earth.
	Well, I think it's very possible.
	The thing is that I have actually seen dragons myself and had communication with, well, I guess you could say one in particular, with, you know, it was a shakar, as they call them, one with wings.
	So the winged dragons are a certain group and it may be that they are considered the royalty of dragons, in case you've heard that.
	And so yes, I mean, I don't have any problem with that.
	And I think the thing with Gobekli Tepe is like I was saying, the layers.
	And I do know that Mark Richards acknowledged that there has been, now whether there were, you know, the wave of sort of good genetic engineering and then a darker wave kind of thing coming in.
	But I've actually seen, I have visions and such and you know I was there you can see in my video I guess Ba has not seen the video Is that right?
	Probably.
	No, you haven't.
	Yes.
	So I am, you know, we spent quite a bit of time wandering around up there and we were the only ones there.
	There weren't even anyone escavating at the time.
	And we also went to the museum, which was completely empty at the time, and wandered around there.
	Completely free, yes, in IRFA, as they call it.
	So, yes.
	So I would say that the energy that I encountered was not negative either.
	However, I think we have had many waves and there is, like I say, you can't ignore it these ancient sects that do, you know, inhabit the area and what they were involved in as well.
	And there have been what they would do is that when they would open the portal and the beings would come down on top of the hill, the people would wind up the hill that, you know, from the villages carrying these torches of fire and they would do a procession and they would be like in a trance state.
	And it was this kind of situation in which, I guess, the sort of, you know, genetic engineering, maybe you could even say, perhaps they were taken into the Stargate and then returned or in some cases not.
	So I have seen that.
	That whole valley is this is the Tibris and Euphrates valley.
	This is an incredibly fertile valley that lies beneath at the feet of Gobekli Tepe.
	And they have discovered other, like an extended area where there are many sites on the nearby mountains that are similar.
	But interestingly, I think Gobekli Tepe itself has the largest, uh, these, you know, I don't know what you want to call them, uh, pinnacles or whatever, you know, these, these, these, these columns.
	They're called monoliths.
	Yes, if you will.
	And, but, but they're clearly created, you know, they're carved and all that.
	So they're not like I think of monoliths as being, uh, natural formations.
	But at any rate, whatever you want to call them.
	Uh, so, and again, this harmonic setup.
	And so it is one of, if not the oldest sites so far that they've admitted to finding on the planet, on the surface, right?
	You know that.
	So they I think they dated it around twelve thousand years old.
	And of course, the pyramids are also this age as you know and older too, and as is the Sphinx.
	So these ancient sites are misdated.
	You know, that's a regular occurrence, of course.
	Yep.
	I thought the pyramids were much, much later than Gobekli Tepe.
	And so is Stonehenge.
	Gobekli Tepe is long, much, much older.
	Well, that's that's what they are saying.
	However, I'm not quite sure that's completely the case.
	Now, one of the things about the pyramids, and actually Stonehenge as I know it, is both have been rebuilt over the centuries.
	So it may also be the version and where they're doing the dating and having something, but there's a huge cover up at any rate on dating any of these ancient sites around the world.
	And I'm sure there are even more.
	And we know about the giants, perhaps you know, even in Egypt, they have actual photographs of excavating gigantic bones.
	Giants.
	Right, bones.
	Yes.
	Giants.
	And there's one in particular, I think, in a small museum in Asuan that depicts the whole skeleton, you know, happens to be crouched in a crouched position, but nevertheless, it's gigantic, you know, maybe even something like 24 feet high.
	So the hidden, this I've done interviews with Hugh Newman, and I think Jim Viera is his partner.
	They've written books about how the Smithsonian has hidden this, the secret of the ghost.
	the secrets behind all the giants that have inhabited the earth.
	So, you know, this goes back to that as well.
	It is interesting to me on Gobekli Tepe, again, that the largest columns are in this central area of what we call Gobekli Tepe, and they named some of the farther away sites with related names.
	I don't have them in front of me right now.
	Did you know about that, that there were other sites, and they have smaller, smaller of these columns?
	As you go down, as you go down the hill, they've got the sort of square sites all down the hill.
	The columns get smaller and rougher.
	To me, it was as though people who didn't know what they were doing were trying to emulate, were trying to reach the world.
	They had lost the knowledge.
	They had lost the knowledge by that time.
	Yeah.
	That's how it felt.
	It's possible.
	I don't know.
	Yes.
	Well, you know, it's wonderful to talk to other people that have been to these places.
	There's not that many people in the world that go to these places.
	And of course, have you been to Adam's Calendar in South Africa?
	I made a documentary about that as well.
	Have you, Ba?
	I have.
	What?
	No, I haven't.
	What been in Adam's calendar, it's called.
	It's on the edge.
	It's a very spectacular site of huge stones.
	And I think you had a picture here in your group, a picture.
	It's me, it's me, I went there.
	It's me.
	I went there when I went down to investigate the White Lions.
	And I've always wanted to go to see Africa, always wanted to see South Africa.
	So, and it was Patricia again.
	She got lots of friends down there.
	And we went around to see various places.
	But I want to take you, if I may, back to the Gobekitepe region.
	Did you go with Farrar or on your own to see Sokmatar?
	Maybe you could explain what the name is, I don't understand.
	Because nobody goes there.
	It was when we first went, it's a hellish place to find because nobody knew about it.
	It was just at the tourist center.
	They said, I looked through the book they gave me in this place, Sokmatar.
	Now, did you go to Haran with the beehive places, with the beehive houses?
	Haran is south of Bershanli Ulfa.
	Oh really?
	No.
	I mean, when we went there, they were having, they were starting a war with Syria across the border, as I recall.
	We went there at that time.
	And so everything, we couldn't go further south, so I'm pretty sure that simply didn't happen.
	We stayed in the general area of Gabekli Tepe.
	We were, we were told by our families and that Bar and company were frightened of coming, and this was 2014, probably just before you went.
	And people in Ofa that we knew just laughed and said life is normal.
	So we went.
	It was fantastic.
	Yeah.
	It was, it was amazing.
	But very few people go to Sogmatar.
	There is a well there that is it Musa Moses?
	No, I thought it was Jesus was there and somebody came.
	No, no, no, no.
	It was Moses who met the woman he wanted to marry and he had to work for her father and then he had to marry the older sister before he could get the one that he wanted.
	No, I know who you mean, yes.
	That's that's Sogmata.
	I've been several times.
	I know it's Sogmata.
	But there's some amazing stuff.
	I sent you pictures there, Kerry.
	Now, Aaron.
	Haran has the oldest university.
	It has prehistoric ruins there which are nothing to look at.
	And we couldn't pick up with the dowsing anything, or you couldn't pick up with the dowsing anything there.
	But I got a book about Babylonian, the Babylonian civilization.
	I was reading it one time in Cornwall.
	And it had descriptions there that there was the most amazing temple to the moon god, Sin.
	And it was one of the emperors there.
	Instead of running his warlike state, he was interested in covering history.
	And he reconstructed this and it was famous throughout the region, this wonderful temple with cedar beams and great swinging doors and so on.
	Now Sogmatar was the place Muslim, who was the original museum curator who set up the big new museum he told us that at that stage in haran there was this group of worshippers of sin the moon god sin and when Islam and Christianity and Judaism came in,
	they were given an ultimatum by whom I don't know, that they had to adopt one of those three world religions or leave and they chose to leave and they went to Sogmatar which is a vast, vast site and there were seven temples to the planets there.
	So can you spell the name so I can pull it up?
	It's S O G M A T A R, I think.
	Okay.
	And that's in Turkey.
	Okay, got it.
	We went with the first group and it was one of those days when magic happened and Patricia who channels, she said it was from this place she said goodbye to her people.
	She was left behind.
	in that region and most of them went.
	She doesn't remember doing that, but there were two or three of us sitting with her when she channeled that.
	And we just had the most magical day.
	When we went with Bar's group, it rained, it was miserable.
	It reminds me of going there.
	You don't remember?
	It had those, those, it's got carvings under the prehistoric dwellings, there's a kind of cave and it's got very worn away carvings.
	Oh yes, I do remember absolutely.
	To the planetary gods.
	And I remember the well, yes.
	So is this look a little bit like what you're talking about?
	Sogmatar?
	Yes, it's Sogmatar.
	Oh, that's Sogmatar, yes.
	Yes.
	I have sent you photos, Kerry.
	Yes, but I didn't find this one, so I was just trying to.
	You know what?
	I don't know what that is.
	That doesn't bring back a memory.
	It's not your.
	On the far, on the far side of that site, you climb up and there's some carvings.
	There's like a god with like a sun around the head.
	And there's very, very weird language carvings.
	like you were talking about reptilian.
	They had that at Gabekli Tepe as well, and nobody understood what this kind of curved letters language was.
	Nobody had been able to translate it.
	I think I sent you photos of that as well, but people don't go there.
	It is a it's quite a journey, but it's somewhere that's worth energetically exploring.
	And with someone like Farrar, I don't know if she's been, but with her tuning, she might pick up stuff.
	Okay, wonderful.
	Well, you know, it's great to know about these sites to find out about them.
	More people will go to them if they can possibly do so.
	I don't know how it's like now in Turkey, uh, as far as allowing people to go south, uh, down to that area.
	Do you do you happen to know now?
	Just one moment, Chasm, what is the situation for traveling south within Turkey?
	No.
	Yes, no.
	He says it's okay.
	You need things like a HES code.
	I don't go anywhere because I'm not wearing masks and I'm not doing any of this stuff, but it is possible to travel.
	You can get permission.
	Okay.
	It just depends how pu purist you want to be about mask wearing and so on.
	Right.
	And this is why I'm not going to Egypt at the moment, because that would just destroy the experience to walk around ancient temples where normally you would meditate and to have a mask on it would be very absolutely, absolutely very destructive.
	So there's just no point in doing that until that changes, which hopefully it will.
	I was told a very lovely story and I think it took place in somewhere in Montana that they had gotten rid of the masks and that people were coming out of their houses and off into the street like in after World War two, ripping off their masks and smiling and laughing and hugging each other and having a beautiful celebration.
	So I wish that for the whole world.
	Oh, me too, me too.
	I mean, we were talking, I was talking yesterday with the Connecting Consciousness group and Emrest from California who runs it.
	And he, I don't know if he's been to Guebeke Tepe.
	He really wants to go this summer.
	And I said, I don't really want to join a tour.
	It's going to probably be too expensive for me.
	But I would love to link up with any of you that go down there at that time.
	Okay.
	Well, you live in Turkey, that's fabulous because you know, you'd be easily able to join.
	Yeah, we had been planning a tour of Turkey right before all this thing happened.
	In fact, we were supposed to go that May, I think it was, and yeah, it was putting that all together.
	So we were going to go to Egypt, and then we were going to go to Turkey, and then we were going to go to Romania, and nothing of it was able to happen because this whole craziness happened.
	So I know it's really difficult.
	If you do, I mean, you've got people who've worked with you before.
	My partner Chasm, if it's not summertime, is very good with officialdom.
	Oh, wonderful.
	Absolutely magically super.
	And he distracts.
	Yes.
	Very good at distracting.
	Bar knows about that with the dowsing around cross country where somebody has to distract to stop holier than thou people interfering.
	Yes, absolutely.
	Well, it's a lot of people think it's devils worshiping, devil's stuff, dowsing.
	Yes.
	So, oh, that's very strange.
	Well, we have a very excellent, you know, you have to have your Egyptian guide and then you can.
	we guide as well, right?
	So we there's three of us.
	There's our Egyptian guide and then myself and Maria and we take turns at each site talking.
	Each of us has a different kind of angle on the story.
	And it's quite fun to share our different perspectives all at every site.
	So yes, he does the same thing.
	He knows how to deal with the guards.
	He knows how to get us into a situation where we can meditate as we wish in certain places and even before the masking situation have become quite restrictive, as you may know, where they're really watching you every second.
	And I don't even know what the status, for example, is in terms of Gobekli Tepe.
	If you remember, at least from my documentary, you can see I was just I was sitting there.
	I was, you know, it was quite empty and we were able to talk about what was going on.
	One of the things about Gobekli Tepe is that they have planted forests, young forests, all around the site to keep, you know, to cover up.
	So that they don't have to excavate what's the entire site, if you understand.
	In other words, they've covered it well.
	And they've planted, yeah, it's quite extraordinary.
	And it's very obvious what they've done.
	And so this is, this is part of the, you know, the continued cover up of our ancient history here on Earth that is so vital, of course.
	And when you go to these sites, you feel the energy.
	They can't take that away, right?
	The energy generated.
	I mean, it was when we first went, when we moved in, I mean, I'm very connected with Earth.
	And as we drove and we drove down from Konya, just absolutely amazing going through Chattelhoyuk and places like this.
	And I was talking to the mountains and nobody thinks these days that you need to apologize to the earth or ask permission to the earth for the work that you do.
	And we've traveled around where they've just blasted mountains and so on.
	But I remember coming into the region and I was nearly physically blown away with the energy.
	It was right from the start, amazing.
	And something that struck me is that what's going on on the planet and why I really got involved and have become very active.
	A lot of my friends are into spiritual stuff and meditation and saying, This is the time when the dark energy is finally coming to an end.
	And what I saw, it is not.
	It wasn't and it wasn't working, which was sacrilege really in some circles of friendship.
	And one needs to be active because they seem to be going for the most sacred places on earth.
	That's what I was watching and I just couldn't stand by and let that happen.
	Well, Stonehenge is a perfect example, of course, you may know, when they let everyone in in the solstice, the 21st I think it is of Juneune.
	You know, it becomes like a madhouse where they let thousands and thousands of people overrun the place, you know, being British, of course, about this.
	And what happens is they have, you know, they have like drunken, basically, brawls, like a very Dionysian sort of festival rituals going on.
	And people are high on all different substances and so on.
	But that what it does is create this energy, this adrenal chrome type, you know.
	It's a kind of hype, you know, it goes into a dream, dreamichrome, but it's kundalini energy, but it's it, it's it's basically is then sucked in by the dark side and utilized.
	And they use it for magical acts after the people leave.
	And so this is, it's just a secret as to why they open it up.
	They open it up for the one for like, I think it's 24 hours during the solstice.
	And all the rest of the year, you can't now they've roped the place off so completely.
	Are you in England, Ba?
	Are you?
	Yes, I am.
	I am.
	I'm down in Cornwall.
	Yes.
	Yes, I have been when there was a it was where people you are allowed, you have to book to go.
	You can book.
	Yes, at night you can go in.
	But they're still extremely, they let a small group come in and you can go near the stones and stuff, but we were told constantly, Don't touch the stones, don't touch the stones.
	You know, it's, it's sanitized.
	Yes.
	Very much.
	Sadly, I mean, the same in Malta that is being sanitized, being roped off and you just walk around miles away from the stones, whereas before you well maybe that they changed that, yes, because I have been all over Malta and inside the temples.
	It is very different.
	Oh, God.
	That's terrible.
	I don't know.
	How did you go to Gozo at all?
	But it does help to have people who can get you into places.
	We were helped amazingly on our journey down from Ireland down to the Holy Land.
	For instance, when we were at the in Greece at my brain is gone at the Athena temple, Athena, yes, Delphi.
	No, well, Delphi, Delphi, yes, we went there as well.
	But we wanted the Acropolis, was it the Acropolis?
	The Acropolis, but also Delphi.
	Hamish wanted to go across the Apollo temple and he got on to it and the whistles were blown by the guards and he was told to get off.
	Anyway, we thought, well gosh, how we ever are going to do any work here?
	And a lovely guide, one of the guides took us aside when we were walking down, disgruntled and thinking, gosh, what, how can we do anything here?
	And she said, what were we doing?
	And we told her, and she said, I, well, I can understand, she said, Now you meet me tomorrow at 10 o'clock, and I will tell all the guides to stop blowing their whistles, and I will let you go right across the temple, which she did.
	But it was really funny because we were right in the middle of the temple, and Hamish was dowsing where the lines went and went.
	went and where they crossed and An American lady shouted from above on some pathway, You're not supposed to be there, she said.
	And I shouted back, We have got permission.
	And she said, Who are you from?
	And I said, The boss.
	But I mean, this helped us to get to places and this happened time and time again.
	Yes.
	At the Acropolis, we there were scaffolding and workmen and you were not allowed anywhere near the temple.
	And so Hamish disappeared off and he found a little kind of hut with a girl sitting in it.
	And he told her what he wanted to do.
	And she said, I will let you in.
	She bought a hard hat.
	And she said, Where is it you want to go?
	And Hamish told her and dowsed and showed her which pillar it came through and across the temple.
	And she said, That is amazing.
	She said, I suffered from cancer and I used to sit with my back to that pillar having my lunch and she said, My cancer is gone.
	And she said, If you came five minutes later, I would have gone for my lunch and nobody but nobody would have allowed you on to go on to the center of the temple.
	And that happened time and time again.
	Yes.
	Extraordinary, yeah.
	Yeah, it happens to me as well and our group and we're very, very lucky that way.
	And we have incredible connections and especially in Egypt, I must say.
	And they have actually, you know, become there's lots of policemen in it.
	policeman in essence.
	There's a tremendous amount of unemployment in Egypt.
	So that's one of the most being a temple guard is, you know, one of the only jobs really.
	But if you get the right people and you get the ancient ones that are standing around, actually, they understand.
	And then they, if they decide, they will lead you into these places and let you in.
	And I, I was led into all kinds of places, even on my own.
	Because, yes, they see something in you that they relate to and they read it energy and all that.
	So they're really lovely, an unbelievably lovely people.
	And they do give you access.
	So yes, you know, these rules can be bent with the right situation and energetically and all.
	And you come with love and truth and always afterwards send gratitude.
	Sure, of course.
	And this is, you know, so wonderful.
	Yes, of course.
	And I have to say that these ancient sites, I don't know if you've gotten into this, but if you do go to the various places, it actually changes your DNA.
	Yes.
	It changes your aura.
	It changes you so that after every trip that I've ever gone on, I can feel a completely different, you know, energizing around me and everything.
	It's it's it's quite addicting.
	In fact, you know, and it's incredibly high, as you may know.
	So there's really nothing like it that can match it to be honest.
	Oh, yes, absolutely.
	And I think that they don't want humans to tap into this, of course, because it puts you in such an altered, high, you know, energy state so that you really must vibrate incredibly.
	I'm sure I know that you do and one does.
	So, you know, this is such a gift to be able to go to these places.
	One of the things that has been most tragic about the time with the whole COVID thing is the lack of being able to travel freely.
	So, I'm very hopeful that that will change for us very soon.
	And I, even during COVID, as I say, I was pushing the barriers.
	I insisted on going to various places.
	But I was turned away at the gate as far as Greece goes.
	Now Greece is a very fascinating place.
	I was at Delphi, I was at the other Acropolis and so on as well.
	Delphi is quite fascinating.
	And again, that is a place where they don't want you to go in the Apollo Temple.
	We did manage to get in there, not sure how, again, how we did, but we did, and so on.
	So, yeah, it's also, it's also physically very demanding.
	Did you find this mostly about the hype up.
	Yeah, and very, it's all.
	Yes, we couldn't really.
	It was very tiring concentrating in that frame of mind when you're dowsing because you have to be absolutely, you have to take your logic mind out completely because you can't force it to go somewhere.
	You just have to be guided by, you know, and that is incredibly difficult to use that control of, well, it's not control, it's just, just allowing your left and right brain not to be guided by what you think it should be.
	You have to just let it go.
	And that is very, very tiring to be in that frame of mind.
	Well, yes, it's difficult to combine that, you know, it's strenuously physical because you end up hiking a lot of time uphill, no matter where it is, or stairs or whatever.
	And then at the same time, you're focused in what is in essence the right brain.
	And that's the non judgmental female side of the brain.
	And it's also a state of meditation, of high meditation.
	Exactly, yeah.
	So, simultaneously, you're going through all that.
	So, it can be incredibly, you know, exhausting.
	And your focus is, of course, on whatever it is you're going to and so on and connecting with that and the earth and going beyond the levels.
	So, yes, it's a very exciting way of living, as I say, quite, quite draining, but at the same time, energizing in a different way.
	You know what I mean?
	And so, you take a lot back with you.
	Is there time for me to tell you a little story?
	Sure.
	Little one.
	I think one of the early visits, I'm not quite sure, we had made friends with the man who was Muslim, who was the then director of the museum.
	And I had my little plan that I was going to go to the site.
	And we knew which day we were going to go.
	And I had my plan, I'm a great planner and organizer.
	So I had planned this carefully.
	And I would go and sit in the place at the Belvedere and I would do my meditation and I would open myself to the site and let whatever it wanted to tell me come in.
	But life had completely different plans.
	And I'm a pretty fixed sign, so it was it was very hard that we found that one of the guys from the Ministry of Tourism or Ministry of Culture was going to be there and Muslim was going to be escorting him around.
	And that was horror for me because he said it was a great honor, you know, that I would be escorted.
	Oh no.
	And lo and behold, no chance to meditate.
	What in the world am I going to do?
	So as he arrived, I just stood in my little corner and asked the site, you know, what is it you want to show me?
	And immediately I got acknowledgement and activation, boom!
	Woof, like that, from absolutely nowhere.
	And then, as they were going round, he let the minister go right down to the level in the site of one of the first temple, one of the big or the second one, one of the big pillars.
	And I was helped down to stand at the base of the actual pillar.
	And honestly, I touched the pillar and it was alive.
	The energy in that pillar was absolutely phenomenal.
	So, you know, you go in that state, but you also try to get rid of expectations and so on.
	I just thought it was I think that's actually very true.
	Like the best laid plans, as they say, you always have to sort of go with the flow and figure out where the force, as I call it, the force wants you to be and what you know, and and and attracts you and and to follow that and to listen to that.
	And of course, magical things happen when you do.
	So this is also a wonderful thing about travel in general that the most magical things happen when you allow and rather than sometimes you just can't follow an itinerary, you know, to the letter.
	You really got to go with it and having guides that also are open to that idea and groups as well that that are open to that is very crucial.
	So yes, I mean, I agree.
	I think it's a wonderful, you know, it's a it's a metaphor for life, if you will.
	That, that sort of whole idea of a journey and that the journey doesn't always take you where you expect to go, but sometimes the place that it brings you is much more, you know, magical and meant to be, obviously.
	So don't you meet amazing people on the way?
	Amazing, totally.
	And this is where, you know, you really begin to, you know, you I see that people are.
	are completely lovable everywhere, all over the planet.
	And I have an incredible view of humanity as a result because of my travels, actually.
	And because of all the wonderful hearted people where they help you at every juncture.
	Because when you're traveling, you're quite vulnerable, as you may agree, especially as a woman, not knowing, like if you don't know the language and customs and various things.
	And they are, they're what I find everywhere is incredibly wonderful, gentle people that will guide you and help you and and want to do so, like, and giving and won't even allow you to give them anything in return at times.
	And then there's other times when they do want the money, you know, they want money because they have none in those some of these places where they're quite poor, but but it doesn't matter, you know what I mean, to a to a to a lot of times in our case, what we would think of, because I actually had to caution people because they would not like to be asked for money and yet the actual money they're being asked for, from our perspective is, is nothing.
	It's like five dollars or ten dollars, and it may not even equal five or ten in like American money or British money, if you understand what I'm saying.
	So it's, you know, it's very important to have generosity of heart when you're traveling, I believe.
	And I think it encourages that idea to understand that what you put value on is different than what they put value on.
	And their perspective is completely different.
	It doesn't matter how much TV they see, you know, their lives are different.
	So understanding that and being able to communicate regardless of the language.
	There's a frozen going.
	So is there anything that you would like to talk about?
	Any more?
	Just we won't stay on much longer, but any more anecdotal stories that each of you might have that you've had on your travels that you think is, you know, a special story or even just to talk about a certain site that you want to bring to people's attention?
	Oh, yeah.
	I can't think my brain's just gone numb, sadly.
	Well, are you still, let me ask you both this, are you still let's say COVID aside, let's say, um, oh, we just, um, I think we just lost Rose is gone, yes.
	She has come back in, she shouldn't, so maybe she'll, she'll join us.
	Maybe, yes.
	If that's okay, I can fix it in the, in the edit after the show.
	So in your case, are you still traveling?
	Are you know, if COVID wasn'tt a problem, would you still be traveling?
	I don't think so because I am 88 years old, which I will go to maybe I might go to the Isles of Silly and places like that, but I don't think I have the desire actually to travel really very much.
	I have here on my land, I have 12 acres of land, and on it we have got we have built a stone circle which is fabulous.
	Yes, which has got and we have got inside the stone circle.
	A glyph which is in the shape of the seed of life.
	If you know what that looks like, it was the seed of life was put on the stone at Abydos.
	Yes, the flower we call it the flower of life.
	We've cut that out on out of the in the field, a big seed of life and stone circles around it.
	And we that was since 1998, I think we put that down.
	And since then we have had all the Celtic ceremonies, the eight ceremonies throughout the year.
	In fact, we've got one coming up the equinox on Sunday when we're holding this ceremony.
	And we also have on our land, which was put down by a Hopi, a Hopi circle, which the Hopi man put down.
	He was asked by Titus, who was the head of the Hopis, that he was to go around the world putting down these one-hearted peace Hopi circles.
	And he came down to my land and we had a ceremony.
	People came and we held a ceremony and the Hopi circle was put down.
	In a whole day we had this ceremony and there we also we light a big fire in the middle and we share music poems and we have a wonderful ceremony each of the eight ceremonies of the year the wheel of the year.
	Oh that's so lovely.
	So we also I, Hamish and I used to teach dowsing workshops but I have passed that on to another couple because it's difficult for me to do it on my own now.
	And we but we run what we call Trenchrom dowsers and we have meetings and zoom talks and in the summer we go out in groups with a picnic to the ancient sites and dows and we you know we share so we're I'm still really very into it.
	I have loads of people even in the COVID time wanting to come and walk my land and in fact.
	In fact, two weekends ago, sadly, I had a funeral service.
	A lady who had been coming to our ceremonies sadly died and her family bought her coffin and we had a most wonderful ceremony on our land.
	Oh, so yeah.
	So now where in England is your land?
	It's way down in Cornwall and in fact you can see on Google Earth, you can see our Seed of Life and our Stone Circle very clearly on our land.
	Well, you know, if it works out, we're hoping to, I do a yearly conference in England, actually.
	It's called Awaken Aware.
	And it takes place in a manner in, let's see, the name of the town is Down in Cornwall?
	No, it's not in Cornwall, however.
	But it, it sounds like it might be possible to visit your land at some point with the group.
	Yes.
	So it's it's it's High Elms Manor is the name of the it's an old manor house and it's in, trying to remember some reason the exact name of the town.
	It's it's right, it's it's near St Albans and that area where it's located, only more in the country.
	And so that's where we hold it, this small conference yearly.
	But it sounds like very, I'm sure Maria, you know Maria Wheatley, then she would also be very interested in coming down to your land, perhaps at some point.
	So I'm glad you.
	You''re very welcome.
	If you're just two of you or on your own or anything, I have a completely self-catering little, I call it a shed, but it's far greater than a shed really, where people can come and just stay.
	Fabulous.
	Anyway.
	Okay.
	Well, let's.
	So welcome.
	Yes.
	Thank you.
	Thank you.
	That's lovely.
	So Rose, you came back in and don't worry, because we can fix all this in the edit.
	I'm glad you made it back.
	You froze and I disappeared.
	Okay.
	Well, here you are.
	And what I was asking just before you left, and I don't know if you heard the whole question, but it was so we've heard from Ba on this.
	I wanted to know if you're still traveling and whether you're still going through these things that if COVID wasn't a factor, would you still be going to various places, et cetera?
	Not recently.
	I mean, my difficulty here, my partner who does the driving and is my gateway, if you like, my gatekeeper, he works in tour villas.
	He's a wonderful he comes from Gaziantep and he's a wonderful chef.
	So he chefs privately in villas and is very popular and does really well.
	But I mean, I was going to say my sadness actually you were talking about people as I disappeared or you disappeared or whoever is this disconnect between people.
	You know, I I spend most of my time in the home or a garden and I look up and see on television this strange world where people are covering their faces.
	Terrible.
	And you know where you can't see who people are.
	You can't see smiles.
	I don't recognize people.
	Yeah, you don't recognize them.
	And there's a tendency not even want to engage with them when all you see is a mask.
	The beautiful thing is that if you see people without, you know they're part of your tribe.
	Secret smiles.
	We haven't been because Guebek Hitepe seems to be what I'm connected with.
	And I love Shandi Ufa.
	I love it to pieces.
	I just love being there.
	And, you know, it has the oldest market, they say, in the world.
	And that's the best market.
	Yeah, it's it's unbelievable.
	Oh, it's lovely.
	I'm very, very sad that you won't have this young man who we, uh, you know, the authority there to I think this is one of the reasons we haven't gone because he showed us round, he showed us the best places to eat, he opened all sorts of doors for us and it's kind of felt not possible.
	And I go where I'm called.
	Yeah.
	But I haven't been I haven't been called back.
	And when I saw it was Emres who posted your video and I saw you going round Göbeki Tepe and I knew I had to contact you and I thought we would meet in Göbeki Tepe.
	When you came and we could introduce you to this young man and you could have a chance to talk to him, I had no idea you would say, Well, come on my show, which gave me quite a shock.
	I'm absolutely delighted, delighted, I must say.
	I just knew I would feel at home, and I do.
	Thank you so much.
	Well, it's been so lovely to talk to both of you and kind of reminisce about these various magical places.
	And I'm sure there's, there's a lot more to talk about.
	If anything occurs to you, do contact me.
	And, and thank you for, you know, sharing the stories that you have.
	And certainly about the white lions, I'm very drawn to lions in general.
	I wanted to save the lions in Egypt that are being mistreated in the zoo, and I'm very concerned about that.
	I put the word out the last time when I came back from Egypt.
	I also tried to talk to the authorities who, of course, wouldn't listen.
	But the animals are, I'm sorry, but the lions are not well treated in the Cairo Zoo, which is right across the street from an incredibly beautiful, I think it's the Four Seasons hotel.
	It's absolutely spectacular, if you've never been, highly recommend it.
	But it's right across the street and you can hear the lions roaring all night long.
	But those, some of the lions are, are mistreated.
	And it's very obvious, it's not a secret.
	And I don't know why or what goes on there.
	Really don't understand it.
	I've talked to, tried to get the word out.
	But it's a, you know, it's a political football really dealing with the antiquities and Egypt and all of that.
	And, you know, if they hear this video, they won't be happy, of course, for me to say this, but perhaps it will galvanize someone to move on this because I haven't been able to make any roads to try to save the lions of Cairo.
	Nevertheless, you know the lions have always been in Egypt guarding even the underground tunnels.
	I know.
	No, I didn't.
	I didn't.
	I wasn't drawn to Egypt at all, but I didn't know that about the lions or the tunnels.
	Yes, it's it's a it's known.
	And they're raised in Egypt, you know, even for this job to guard the tunnels.
	And so it's an old, incredible, you know, ancient.
	Where are the tunnels?
	Are they where are the tunnels?
	Under the pyramids, under, you know, underground.
	There's a terrific amount of underground tunnels in Egypt.
	Every ancient site has a thing has tunnels under it.
	I think they're used for.
	Oh, wow.
	Some of them, no, some of them lead between the sites.
	So they connect the sites.
	Some of them are, of course, it's all, you know, mostly they're not open to the public.
	They're known to be there and they have been there since ancient ancient days.
	And so they were a way to go in between the various sites.
	You can go from the Sphinx, obviously, under the various pyramids as well as out.
	Well, connecting Saqqara, for example, to the Great Pyramid, which is quite a distance and so on.
	And maybe they were for what was I going to say?
	Were they for safety to go down in the tunnels for some reason?
	Well, there may be elements of that.
	But they were, as I say, used in the old days.
	And of course, the ancient, ancient sort of old wise men that hang around the temples and are always there know the secrets.
	They know all of this and where they are and how to get in and out and so on, but they're not shared with and there's hidden places that they found.
	In other words, as excavated as Egypt is, it's got a tremendous of unescavated area, just tremendous finds that are still waiting to be discovered.
	And that's true of many of these places that we talk about.
	In other words, in the case of Gobekli Tepe, they're actually, as I say, planting and putting soil on top of places to make sure you don't go, they don't go any further.
	But perhaps this will change in the future and there will be a change in attitude and these things will be opened again.
	Once again, their secrets.
	I think we have a role.
	I was talking last night with the connecting consciousness, the three of us.
	And something for me is starting to come through about we need to take action where we are, I think.
	And, you know, Emiris himself has a gong and he was playing the gong and making whale sounds.
	I have friends moving out to Turkey who are musicians who have cymbals and gongs and they do chanting and drumming.
	And I really think that we need to work with the earth on this.
	And that might, and Barr knows something about this with the Fountain International group, where you can find the energy centers in your own region.
	And if you look up Fountain International, you can work with that.
	And I think I've just been so galvanized into action that if we But if we start to work in this way and if we use sound and if we use voice and intention and working together, we can change where we actually are rather than you can't do much internationally on a large scale.
	But people underestimate what you can do in your own region and politically and so on, it obviously isn't working.
	So I think we've got to change very true.
	And that's come in yesterday and is quite exciting.
	But I wanted to ask you, you can answer a mystery for me.
	You've been down to the Cisterna in Istanbul.
	Oh, yes.
	What do you pick up there?
	Oh, it's a very fascinating place.
	And in fact, I've made a documentary of that as well.
	Recently.
	Is that available?
	Yes, it's online.
	So I mean, you might search under Turkey and I can find it and send you the link anyway.
	But we filmed down there and you have to be very careful.
	We know they have the gigantic head of Medusa and it's turned upside down on purpose.
	And so it sits there upside down.
	I mean, that's what they did because they came in later and decided that that was a, you know, anti, you know, I guess, you know, anti Christian, right, that everything.
	And that they knew better.
	And so that's how they disfigured it was by turning it upside down.
	But it's still there.
	It's a gigantic, you know, it's very gigantic.
	I mean, it's it's, you know, it's almost as tall as I've seen it.
	I mean, when I first went to Turkey, my daughter met a Turk and I went over to the wedding.
	Amazing.
	And I was told by someone, a friend of mine from Cornwall who had moved out to Istanbul, you've got to go to the cisterna.
	People don't know about it.
	Go to a well.
	It's called the cisterna.
	It's an underground well.
	All that underneath the waterworks place underneath, you mean?
	Yeah.
	Oh, you've been having it.
	Yeah, yeah.
	And he said, go before everybody else came in.
	So I was there first thing in the morning before anyone else.
	And then they play music.
	They play music down there.
	It's amazing.
	Well, now it's being renovated and Casim and I have been three times to get to see it.
	The first time there was a three hour queue, but you can't, it's mostly shut off now.
	It's horrid.
	But that's, that's, a friend of mine who is a shaman said it's a very wicked and evil place, but I didn't pick that up.
	Well, I think it's, again, you get into this kind of idea that it's been used for various rituals and quite possibly there have been some very dark ages.
	I do feel that in Turkey when I'm going through the ancient sites, there are underground places.
	In fact, I well, I'll send you my recent interview that I did that in which we have photographs and so on of these underground places that we went and even in them I got I did get some negative energy.
	But the cistern, it's quite big.
	So it will have different feelings in different areas of the cistern.
	One thing that is fascinating is that they have, you're right, one of the things they've done recently is drain it of water.
	So the beautiful water that was and the water added to the theatrical sort of the reflection of things.
	Yes, a magical quality of it.
	And the sound is it must be different without the water there.
	Oh, yes.
	And they also, you know, they try to stop you from from they try to make you go along in a certain way and lit it in a certain way.
	So it's, you know, it's terrible the way they they've done things.
	And I've got, again, film of all that.
	And I can tell you that there are pillars, there are carvings on the pillars that show, you know, what in essence is this.
	They call it the third eye.
	That's what they like.
	Yes, I've seen that, the pillars, yes.
	But actually, I think it's pod beans that they're actually depicting.
	I don't actually think they're all third eye.
	I think there are different carvings they've tried to hide.
	There are areas of the cistern that are purposely made very dark so that you can't go there and can't see what's carved on those pillars inside.
	So it's a very mysterious place.
	It's a very beautiful place.
	At least it has been, you know, when I've been there and I've now been there twice, I guess it is.
	And I was there this summer and they're just starting to kind of try to, you know, drain the water and really control it and all of this stuff.
	And that wasn't happening last time I was there.
	So, yeah, I think it's I do think that it's, you know, you're talking about a mixed bag because you have to go through all ancient Rome and Greece and the, you know, before it was Constantinople and that when it was thriving at a certain point and then sort of the infiltration.
	But it's older than Roman, huh?
	Oh, it's I think it's quite old.
	I don't actually I can bring it up and see what they have to say about it as far as I actually just brought up I'm not a fan of Wikipedia to be honest, but it is useful sometimes.
	Yeah, so it's it's come up.
	This is basically can you see it there?
	Yeah.
	And so it's the sixth well it says it was built in the sixth century during the Byzantine Empiperor.
	Wow.
	And it's but it is a really magical place.
	And in fact, when I went there, I was so surprised by how amazing it was that I didn't understand why it was such a big secret.
	Like nobody and there's the Medusa head upside down.
	So it's somehow, yeah, it's hard to get in there, but like lines and all of that, tourists.
	But you, you know, when I was there it was almost empty.
	So, you know, the first time around.
	Well, the first time there was no one.
	I was there I was blown away.
	I've also been told that the tunnels go back for seven kilometers or so beyond what we can actually see.
	Under the city, yeah, because of course they're going under the Blue Mosque, which is right next door, and also the Hagia Sophia temple, and then Topkapi Palace is right there as well.
	Does it go under there as well?
	Sorry?
	They're all right.
	It goes under Topkapi.
	Yeah, I love that region.
	I just love it.
	It's not a city, but I love this temple.
	It's a lovely, you know, city.
	It's a lovely, you know, place to.
	We spent hours and hours wandering around there.
	It's so.
	And every time you go, I've got a friend who lives there now from New Zealand.
	And Kasim goes to see his family.
	And last time I stayed on and I met up with Natasha, and she's showing me all sorts of places, little old ancient Christian churches.
	There's one that still, you're not supposed to photograph.
	And the guy actually let us, again, one of these magical things.
	He said, come out, I won't tell anyone.
	And you can just take some photos just quickly.
	Absolutely.
	It's just magical things happen in Turkey, They really do.
	Yes, it's, it's, you know, and the people, again, beautiful people, the food is amazing, incredibly fresh, very, very good.
	And I'm sure you know that living in Turkey, you have some.
	And it's, it's close to its origin.
	I mean, in the cities you get it brought in.
	But here, it, it, there's not much length of journey in Port.
	It's mostly grown close by.
	Yes.
	And we need, we need to focus on that in the near future, I feel, because I feel the food is, the food system is going to be threatened.
	Do you remember when you phoned me, I was in the middle of making nettle soup?
	Oh yeah.
	And I've just got the last bit of the nettle soup that I made.
	I put it in the freezer to have tonight.
	Are you waiting for your you're waiting for your supper, I think.
	I am.
	Well, I Oh, well, we're going to wrap this up anyway.
	But it's been a delight.
	It's quarter past eleven here.
	It's quarter past eleven.
	Yes, I understand.
	You enjoyed it.
	Thank you.
	Thank you so much.
	Well, it's it's it's it's been so fun and we could go on for hours, obviously.
	I'd love to have you both back., so please do keep me in mind.
	And if anything occurs to you that you'd like to talk about or you've got something new that comes from even from your past that you didn't touch on that you think is really important for people to know, my door's open over here.
	So thank you so much.
	Thank you.
	And thanks to Bar, this lady who said I have nothing to say.
	Well, I still don't think I measured much, but still, there you go.
	And just to say to you, Kerry, if you come down to Cornwall, do contact and me.
	I will.
	Good.
	I would love to.
	I think it sounds fascinating.
	We'd love to come to your land and see what you've got there.
	And you have to see what they've planted over two thousand trees.
	There were no trees on our land at all and now it's a woodland.
	Oh, that's right.
	You have to go and see it.
	It is extraordinary what they did, the two of them.
	And what vast England is full of magical places.
	So I love going there and yeah.
	And I go there often.
	So I wish you a good night and thank you.
	Lovely to see you, Rose.
	And you, I shall see you in Cornwall when they open it up to me again.
	And Kerry, I hope to see you in Turkey this year in Shabat.
	That would be lovely.
	As soon as possible, we I hope to join you down with your next trip.
	All right, that would be fabulous.
	Okay, take care.
	Thanks to all of you.
	Take care.
	Bye.
	Bye then.
	Bye.
	Thanks very much.

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