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Oct. 10, 2024 - Project Camelot
01:19:06
DANEIL AND DEREK: LIFE WITH A COSMOS CLEARANCE
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Time Text
Music Music Music Music Hey everyone, I'm Carrie Cassidy from Project Camelot and very happy to be here today.
So I've got Daniel and Derek and they're from Shred the Veil and we're going to be talking about their grandfather and his book.
And sad to say he is no longer with us.
So I guess we can say anything we want.
No, just kidding. But anyway, so guys, I've been on your show in the past.
So glad to return the favor.
And why don't you introduce yourselves?
You know, one of you could take the lead and then let's have the other one, you know, sort of follow it up with their own personal stuff as well.
Yeah, Dan, you go ahead.
Yeah, so Derek and I were born and raised in Richmond, Virginia.
Both became mechanical engineers and had pretty normal lives.
But when we were teenagers, our grandfather told us about UFOs and aliens and extraterrestrials and that he We've had encounters with them and all kinds of crazy stories that we weren't really sure how to handle back then.
This was like in the mid-90s when you started talking about this.
Kind of out of the blue. Growing up before that, he had never mentioned it.
And I guess at that point in his career, he felt safe doing so in some capacity.
Yes, then we found out several years later that he was part of Dr.
Steven Greer's disclosure project in 2001, one of the 21 witnesses that came forward in the National Press Club hearing in Washington, D.C. that day.
We didn't actually know about that when it happened until further, in 2003, when he came up with his book, Life with a Cosmos Clearance.
And then we had no idea the amount of information that he had.
He claimed to have a top-secret clearance, but that was 38 levels above top-secret, which is a Cosmos clearance.
Yeah, his book is just full of interesting information about the history of the UFO's crash retrievals over the last 80 years and secrets the government's been keeping from us, his encounters, his personal experiences.
It's a fascinating book, for sure.
Kind of like a handbook for the disclosure community, I would say.
It's been called by others.
And over the last 20 years, Derek and I have been Trying to find corroborating information, which we've actually been successful with.
So it's kind of led us on our journey to start our podcast, Shred the Veil, and talk to other people who have experienced similar things and trying to validate some of the information from our grandfather as he passed away shortly after writing the book.
And towards the end of his life, he was kind of He was deteriorating mentally.
He had a lot of mini strokes and things like that.
When he came out with this information, we really didn't have a chance to talk to him about it at all, really.
The only times we really had those discussions with him was back when we were teenagers.
At that time, he was telling me about You know, Nazis in Antarctica and UFOs down there, the Philadelphia Experiment, time travel, ETs materializing into our universe so that we could see them physically and just stuff that blew my mind.
And quite honestly, I didn't know what to believe because I'd never heard anything like that before.
My parents weren't really validating anything either.
It was, you know, it was news to them.
And so...
We kind of sat with that for a long time until, you know, we came out with this book and then, as I described, we went down our journey of trying to validate these things.
And unfortunately, the timing was such that, you know, we didn't really get to talk to him about the material.
So that's kind of the mystery of it is to, for us anyways, is on this journey of discovery to find out what's true, what he really was involved with, and we keep on opening up more doors.
So it's getting kind of exciting for us.
But those are some of my personal experiences and the things that he talked to me about.
But Derek sure has different ones.
Yeah, I can briefly add to that.
And I'm four years, actually four years younger than Danny.
So he kind of got more of a one-on-one I guess more like, okay, these are the things that I want to share.
These are the stories. These are the types of technology, types of situations that I've encountered, I've read about, and our grandfather would share that with him.
But with me... Maybe he felt like he kind of already got it off his chest, maybe.
So I didn't get that kind of information from him, but I spent a lot of time with him.
And I remember Ikman driving to Dulce, the Archuleta Mesa with him and having an encounter where they basically just...
These black unmarked SUV came up behind us and was being very intimidating to say, you should leave.
And I'm pretty sure they were just tracking him because all we were doing is driving through the area.
You know, anybody does that on a regular basis, but...
Now that I look back on it, it's like there had to be a reason why they didn't want him there.
So we just had to leave, and that was when I was a teenager.
But I spent many summers in Taos with him.
And like my brother said, we would go visit him in Taos, New Mexico while he was there in the later part of his years.
When it comes to this book, though, like my brother said, it's...
It's like a conspiracy theorist's wildest dreams to put it all into one book.
It's like, how much of this is true?
Is it all true? Can we make a sense of it?
Because I was a huge critic, skeptic of it when it came out.
Because we hear our grandfather just mentioning aliens offhand and saying this and that.
But the amount of detail and information that's shared in this book is amazing.
We were trying to make sense of that.
And of course, we don't have rights to this book.
We don't make money off this book.
So it's only been the last few years where it's like, well, these encounters and all the data points start to add up.
And over the years, we see even in the mainstream and just all the other people coming out, the whistleblowers, all the testimony, and we're seeing, hey, maybe he actually had something, too.
There was something about what he was trying to say that still needs to be shared.
And we felt it really validated.
A lot of the last 20 years has validated what he said.
So that's kind of why we're speaking now.
And obviously, it was with Dr. Greer at the beginning.
And Dr. Greer is still such a big part of the movement.
And I know you don't agree with everything Dr. Greer says and his point of view.
And we're kind of in the same stance as well.
I think there's so much that we could discuss later about the narrative and the limited hangout
and things that are happening now that you see.
For sure.
OK.
Well, I don't know.
You had something written about the book, and I was actually trying to figure out.
Now, I want to get the book.
I'd love to get the book.
But... What I'm wondering is, you know, what I'm interested in is his story, you know what I mean?
But I noticed that there's a lot of, or at least the way you guys framed it in what I saw, seemed to be a lot of stuff from other people that, you know, people like, you know, Phil Schneider and this one and that one.
And the...
You know, of course, I know.
Okay, so I know those portions of the story.
Of course, if he wants to add something of his own there, that would be interesting.
And I don't know if you've kind of been able to parse those things out.
But maybe we can start with an overview of his story, like how he got involved.
I hope you know some of it's in the book.
Of course, yeah.
I'll let Dan summarize and I'll fill in the gaps.
Sure. Okay, so he was born in 1928.
He joined the U.S. Air Force in 1947 when it was first established, really.
It was part of the Army originally.
And Shortly after that, he had his first encounter at Warner Robins Air Force Base in Georgia in 1949.
His specialty was in radar.
He was head of a radar unit there and they were running these We're good to go.
So they were doing this at the base, and at one point, he and his entire team, they saw three UFOs essentially hovering in space, you know, a couple miles away in the sky.
And they saw them there visually, and then they went down and Try to pick them up on the radar and they did show up on the radar and then they took off and just completely just disappeared at speeds way beyond the technology that the Air Force was aware of at the time had any capabilities of doing so and they confirmed the speeds with the radar was thousands of miles per hour that these things just you know shot away and they actually got real-time photographs like film photographs of it And they reported it to...
Heineke at the time was in charge of those kinds of reports and things like that.
And basically, they were told never to speak of it again.
And the photos were taken away.
And that was kind of the end of that first encounter.
But that was early in his career.
So right from the get-go, he kind of was in the know of certain things.
And that kind of led him into these higher clearances and access levels.
He was also a Conrad Courier during Eisenhower's time, which is they basically carry the war codes and travel wherever, you know, before the president gets there or whatever.
And so he had cryptographic clearance through that, and with that clearance, which we've, through the Freedom of Information Act, we have validated that he did have that crypto clearance on record, that he had access to a lot of information that was going through Langley at the time and those higher-level classified information.
And then he also worked with Benoit Mandelbrot who was higher up in some of these projects developing different things and through his time and working with people that had clearances above him he kept getting access to more and more along the way.
So over his career that took him through 1968 over those years he He became, I guess, the predecessor to what we call, like, the Men in Black.
He was part of Project Blue Book, where his job was to go around and convince people that if they saw something, some kind of encounter or anything, that it really wasn't what they thought it was.
Whatever story he came up, they came up with at the time, whatever they're telling him in Swamp Gas, you know, whatever it was.
So he was part of the first team that would go around and do that and try to convince them or talk them out of believing that they saw something that was off this planet.
And he talks about in his book, you know, if If he was not successful or his section of the team was not successful, then the second team would come in.
And that's where we get into the threats, the blackmail, they're threatening their lives or their family's lives.
And he said there was a third team of, you know, contract people.
He calls them the 00 boys, the Wacken Hunt assassins that would come in and finish the problem if it really have to get to that point.
So he worked with Alan Hynek?
Yes, yeah. Yeah, he said he knew Alan Hynek and what Hynek was doing, I think more for the civilian crowd.
He was asking civilians, okay, what did they saw?
Get all the information and, you know, put it into Project Blue Book.
Well, our grandfather said he did that on the military side with any military civilians and family and trying to say, no, you didn't see that, you know, whatever reason.
Right. Yeah. Now, and I want you to go on, but I have to ask this.
So, did he ever reveal, like, what was his motivation?
Did you get any psychological, if you will, kind of profile or look at him as to, you know, he sounds like he was a really...
I guess you might say ambitious member of the military.
So, you know, but he also managed to stay among them and to be promoted.
So did you ever kind of get a psychological fix on or even from his, you know, I don't know, your grandmother or for people around him that explained, like, what was he?
What was his motivation?
Do you know? I think he was, I mean, certainly just fascinated by it, interested in it, As he was learning more, he became like a team member, inadvertently kind of learning too much, working with people that were on his team in the higher projects.
And they basically had to vet him out.
He talks about going through a lot of psychological testing, all kinds of testing before they would clear him to move on.
But once they knew that he knew certain things, they're like, okay, well, they had to make a decision.
Do we get rid of this guy or do we trust him enough?
And that's when the testing began.
Sorry to interrupt, but who was his mentor?
Do you happen to know, did he have a specific mentor that he would mention at all?
Not necessarily a mentor.
He did say Manuel Mandelbrot was the one he was working next to on some of these projects.
The one he mentions is the Mode 6 transponder, the black box and all the airplanes that are used today for tracking purposes.
Some of the initial things, but that's the only person that he's named.
Yeah, it might only be the one that people in the public would know who that name is.
I don't think he's going to reveal who else he'd be working with, and that's the other part.
He's good at keeping secrets, obviously.
Well, okay, but, okay, let's put it this way.
Did he have a person who was, you know, sort of head at that time that either he...
Reported to on some level, or he, you know, was well known around and around, because we know Eisenhower's name, for example, and we know there's a pecking order, we know there's MJ-12, but there are members, even we know the members of MJ-12, for example, Vannevar Bush, for example.
I mean, so I'm trying to place him in the framework, if you will, He would never say names like that, but he knew of them all.
He mentioned Vannevar Bush and the fact that MJ-12 was started by that Truman memo.
But he would never say directly who he had contact with other than Mendelbrot.
I think he felt that was harmless, maybe.
I think he was trying to be very careful.
In the whole book, I'll just put it this way.
He doesn't give any documents or anything that can't be found in the public domain.
And he did that to save his own skin and probably to keep his family safe, too.
And by the way, he was the only one from the Disclosure Project with Dr.
Greer when he went up to speak.
Keith froze up and he got into panic and they had to get him off the stage.
And then he said, I don't want to stay here.
He called my mom and said, I want to leave.
I don't feel safe. And he left.
So even more than Clifford Stone, he probably had some very big intel, big bombs to drop back in that time.
And I think he knew his life was going to be in danger, and even our lives if he said something.
That's how it seems now that we look back at it.
Interesting. Okay, that adds another layer.
So, okay, if you want to go ahead.
I'm sorry, Daniel.
I was just to make sure I can call you guys by the right name.
But anyway, so Daniel, can you elaborate as you were saying?
Go ahead. Okay, yeah.
I mean, another aspect that may have played into his ability to gain the clearances was that we know that he was a Freemason, and his grandfather was a 33 degree Freemason.
We don't know how far up he went in the ranks, but we do about know, validated his great-grandfather.
His grandfather, not great-grandfather, I'm sorry.
But yes, when he left the Air Force in 1968, he joined the NRO, the National Reconnaissance Office, which was Not known to the public at the time.
It was established probably a decade or two earlier with Eisenhower, but it was not, you know, a public known organization until the 90s, until that time.
And I don't know, maybe that's why in the 90s he felt comfortable coming out with some of the information that he did, just starting to speak about it at least and make, you know, what he felt comfortable sharing.
But he claims that within the NRO, he was part of the Scientific and Technical Unit of Interplanetary Phenomena, which is Colonel Corso actually states that was the unit that went to investigate Roswell that was formed a few years earlier from crashes in the Los Angeles area.
Okay, so was he involved in investigating Roswell?
Did he even say that much or not?
Well, that was the same year that he joined the Air Force.
One at a time, and then I'm very happy to hear both of your takes on it, because I know you're brothers, but still you're going to come at it from different points of view.
So go ahead, Daniel.
Okay, yeah. So, 1947, Roswell, that's the same year that he entered the military, so he was not a part of it from that early on standpoint, but later on he became a part of that unit and he was involved with extraterrestrial retrievals.
So, he says his specialties were extraterrestrial crashes, just ET contact in general, and then Particalization, which we've kind of pieced together is kind of ties to time travel, as far as we can tell, the way he just described it.
Yeah. Okay. Now, was he psychic or a remote viewer?
He knew about it, and what we've been told is that, well, what we kind of, from random sources, that dealing with time travel, it seemed like that whole looking glass type of subject, being a precog, that all had something to do with it.
So I think they experimented with him and used him as one of the earliest people in whatever they would, maybe they didn't even call remote viewing back then.
Sure, that's right. Involved with it, yeah.
Okay, and just out of curiosity, does he mention Project Lookingglass in his book?
He doesn't specifically say that one.
All right. Okay, and then did you have any other thing to add to what Daniel was saying about his interactions with Roswell?
And I have a reason for asking these particular questions.
So, Roswell and Corso.
So, did you have, you know, was there any more information you can give me that he had interaction with that?
I would say just from his...
There's, interesting enough, there's some video that we found online that came out from his interviews he did in mid to late 90s that we had no idea he even did that.
But that's the best testimony we have on record.
It's still on YouTube and it has like Brazilian or Portuguese subtitles because I guess the South America...
Are the ones that got access to it and wanted to get it out there.
But he was talking about Roswell in that interview.
He talks about many things, which is very interesting to go back and see his train of thought.
Okay, well, do you have a link to that?
We can get it to you.
If you would, because I think that would fill in the gaps and give people a picture of this person.
Because, you know, this is kind of an unusual interview kind of thing.
I mean, you know...
For me and people to listen to because you're, you know, relatives and you're not even his sons, you're his grandsons, right?
Correct? So what we're trying to do is see the man through you, right?
And for those who haven't read his book, obviously, and it sounds like his book was pretty much cleansed.
Allah, you know, let's say in this modern day age, Lou Elizondo, who just released a book, and, you know, I'm sure that's plenty cleansed.
So, whereas it can have some good information and some clues, which these people managed to put into their books, by the way.
So, it's not a complete waste time to read.
But at the same time, you have to be really astute to be able to add those, link those dots together.
So I'm just curious.
Did he talk about Corso?
In the book he does.
He does mention Corso and that's why he was tied to that specific unit.
Did he talk about it at all between either of you?
No. Dan probably had the most interaction, but no, not with me.
So, I mean, some of the stories he would tell me, again, this was when I was a teenager.
He talked about Roswell.
He described the whole thing to me.
And then he also talked about MJ-12 a lot and described them to me.
But, yeah, that's as far as I don't...
Since the timing of it was such that it was when he first started, I don't know that he was directly involved, I would say.
Did he know John Lear?
I don't know that either.
He would not name drop.
When he talks about stuff, it would be very philosophical.
Like, oh yeah, aliens are here, and by the way, I'm from...
Well, John Lear was famous.
He was famous the whole time, so...
Did he know Bob Dean?
I mean, these people are probably almost contemporaries of his.
They have passed on as well.
He mentioned specifically Phil Snyder, and I know for sure he knew of Phil Snyder in the 90s because I saw a VHS tape of Phil Snyder at his house, and he's bringing people over to watch this.
And I'm like, well, there's a reason he's interested, but this is completely new to me.
So I knew for sure he was in that world.
He was definitely in that world.
Right. He says that what Bill Cooper did for the Navy, he did for the Air Force.
He was talking to all these people.
I have records of him going to one of the first conferences Alex Collier ever did, and I have the documentation for that, which is nice to see that he was doing it back then.
I know you just interviewed Bob Woodson.
Yeah. Yeah, Ryan Wood.
Ryan Wood. And so there's a letter that I actually have from my grandfather corresponding with whoever the public person is for Ryan and Bob Wood at the time to say, this is how you contact them.
We'll give you your information so they can validate the MJ-12 documents.
It was based on that, and that was why they were talking.
100%. Yeah, our grandfather was providing them material at the back, this was like in the late 90s.
Yeah, 97, something like that.
Yeah, but in his book he says he was friends with Phil Schneider and Bill Cooper.
Okay, so that's kind of interesting because, well, let me just say these things.
So, Roswell, actually, now I have to be a little careful, but we got death threats over an investigation we did connected to Roswell, believe it or not.
And so there is some things I know about Roswell that aren't commonly talked about.
So I was just wondering, you know, obviously didn't have a tape recorder
when you were hanging out with him, but I'm just wondering if he, see, because a
person when they talk, they might let things slip because they are, you know,
they're talking to your relatives and they might just say a throwaway line
that you didn't pay attention to necessarily, but you know what I'm saying?
It could have contained some interesting information that the rest of us would
love to know, and because it's in that setting that, you know, it could have some
more validity than even certain other things. So did he...
So was he...
Well, let me say this.
So he had colleagues and he had a support system.
That much sounds reasonable.
But did he ever...
You know, talk about being afraid or, you know, I know you said that on the Stephen Greer thing that that was kind of like a big thing, but after that or before that or were you aware of or did your grandmother ever talk, you know, I'm just trying to see was there any kind of atmosphere around him, would you say, in that way?
He never really seemed like one to be afraid of anything, or he was just like, well, this is the way it is, and I'm going to tell you, you know, this is what I know.
And he, like we said, he never said anything to the family until 93, and I was about 10, and I remember the day, I remember exactly, we went to our mom's kitchen table, and she said, come sit down, you know, your grandfather has something to tell you about UFOs he saw, and he told us that whole story.
And that was the first of it.
And from that point on, he was trying to get in the public domain and talk more.
And I think it was because he saw people like Bill Snyder and Bill Cooper with Behold the Pale Horse, and he saw that this needed to come out.
People were starting to speak out about it, and he felt it was probably the time to do it as well, because he didn't have much time.
So he was, you would say, he was for disclosure of a kind, at least.
Yeah. Because it also sounds like he was all about keeping his security oath, right?
Yeah. And we talked to Dan Willis, who actually met him at the...
You talked to who? Dan Willis.
Oh. Because he also testified at the 2001 Disclosure Project.
So he said that, you know, Dan Willis was telling us that he met our grandfather there.
They had coffee that morning, and there was definitely some, you know, A lot of tension, we'll say, anxiety about, you know, amongst all of them about coming forward and talking, and it was definitely present there.
So, okay.
You know, I know that I'm kind of steering this, but I want to understand what he contributed to things.
So he starts out in radar, right?
And then he gets promoted.
And do you happen to know his promotions, like his jobs, the job titles or any of that stuff?
Yeah. And within the Air Force, he went to...
Was it a...
D-9 Chief Master Sergeant.
Chief Master Sergeant. Yeah.
Okay. That was his final rank in the Air Force, basically, before he retired.
Yeah. Oh, really?
Then it went black.
He retired in 68.
We have no record, no official record that he went to the NRO because they won't release anything.
I've tried to get... But after that, it's all based on what he says he was a part of.
And by the way, he was the only one in 2001 or before when he was going to testify with Dr.
Gurr. He's the only one to mention NRO at the time, but also the ACIO, which nobody would talk even about.
Probably knew what ACIO was, but he mentioned it and he said that's when you're on that level and if you have clearance for that level or if you pay your dues, follow the rules, then your government will have access to that information.
So that's what he was saying back then.
Okay, and is that why you guys, I saw something that you were talking about, wingmakers.
We never, I don't think, talked about wingmakers.
You know, I have a whole background on that.
Yeah, I asked a little bit.
Is that what piqued your interest, is his mention of ACIO? That's kind of where everything started to lead at the end of the day.
That was the last chapter of his book, was the wingmakers.
All right. Sure.
And can you summarize his thoughts on that at all?
Sure. Go ahead, Dan.
He presents the story of the Ancient Arrow site and how the ACIO handled the incident and a lot of the information that From the original Waymakers website that would be aligned with what he talked about.
And he said, you know, Derek, I believe this was in the book, but he actually, there's an individual within the ACIO that they refer to as 15.
He claims that he had seen this person in the 80s at NASA, he claimed he saw 15 at NASA. And by the way, our grandmother, well, not our biological, but our step-grandmother and our mom were working at NASA in 69 during the Apollo missions.
They just happened to be working there.
Oh, right. They don't relate it to our grandfather in one way or another.
They're completely oblivious to the fact that this could have been his actual occupation and all the things in the book.
What do you mean they're oblivious?
I mean... I mean, our grandmother never believed it.
I asked her before she passed.
I was like, do you think he ever was in anything secretive?
And she's like, there's no way.
There's just no possible way.
But if you're on that level, and if you're able to keep a secret for 40, 50 years, then that's your job.
And he was obviously good at it if he did.
Well, also, even if he told them or told her, then she would have to pretend that he didn't.
So that's fair enough.
And I guess they all were trying to protect their kids and so on and so forth.
That would be your parents, right?
Yeah, our mom, yeah.
What about, what's the story with your father?
I mean, not to get too personal, but is he, was he alive?
Is he alive? Yeah.
Oh yeah, our father's alive.
Yeah, no, it was, so it was our mother's father.
On our mother's side is Daniel Salter, our grandfather we're talking about.
So that was his only real child.
So that was. So we should tell the license plate story because that will explain a lot.
Yeah. Okay, if you want to have some actual evidence that any of this is true, and we didn't know this until last year, we just started doing interviews with Dr.
Sala, other people, and our father was like, oh, wait a second, that reminds me of the time I went to the Virginia Norfolk Naval Base.
And I was allowed to get on, like, without any question, no matter what.
Like, he had the license plate from a...
He basically got the vehicle as a gift from our grandfather, his old van, but his old license plate was still on it.
And so, he goes to the naval station because he's an engineer, a civil engineer, and he needed to speak to someone within there.
But all that his colleagues said, there's no way they're going to let you on the base.
Absolutely not. Like, they'll take an act of God to get on that base.
He'll be questioned for...
Detained for however long to get on.
But he drove through and the security guard just waved him right through as he's driving in the van.
So he goes and has this meeting on the base.
And as he's leaving, he stops and asks the security guard, why did you let me on the base?
Like, without any question.
He's like, oh, it's just because of the license plate.
That's all you needed.
So there has to be something.
Okay. Well, I mean, I don't think...
Personally, there's any reason to doubt the guy, to be honest.
Based on the way you're telling the story, you know, it just sounds logical and also is not the kind of thing that anyone did back in those days to try to get notoriety.
And certainly, they don't go public and then not say anything that is super, you know...
Groundbreaking or something.
Otherwise, what's the point?
And so on.
It's interesting that he decided to write a book, because that shows a certain degree of commitment, if you will, to getting the story out.
But... I don't know, because I haven't read the book.
He's a deep state operative, if that's what you're asking.
Sorry? He was definitely trying to be like, hey, humanity needs to know this.
And he was very spiritual.
He actually taught the rancher book, and he was trying to say, it's time for this information to come out.
We cannot wait. And if we don't say it, the people, if the government doesn't release it, the aliens are going to tell us one way or another.
That's what he said at the end of the day.
Yeah, well, I agree with that.
He was very passionate about getting the message, like, enough is enough kind of thing.
He wanted to make sure that the public got the information so that even if it was, you know, dumbed down a lot for, you know, his safety and for our safety, he felt compelled to make sure that something started, you know, some kind of message got out.
Okay, but did that commitment happen later on when other people were coming forward?
And what were the years in which he started to show that sort of dedication to what we might call disclosure?
In other words, was this later in his career after he retired, that kind of thing?
Yes. Yeah, so he started his career in 47, as I mentioned, and this was probably publicly mid-90s when he started coming out with these things, and then Disclosure Project 2001, the book 2003, so it was much later in the end of his life.
Okay, interesting.
So, you think he was perhaps just guessing.
You think he might have been a telepath?
He might have had psychic abilities?
It's possible, but I mean...
But you don't know that?
You don't know that for sure, no.
Even though, you know, a lot of times when people in a family have sort of psychic abilities, then they say something, even could be just a mundane thing, and they would be right.
And then the family becomes aware that that person in the family has certain abilities.
Was there anything like that going on around him or not?
I can just tell you this, that this is a person, nothing like that personally for me that would make me think he's psychic, but a friend of ours that's actually childhood friends of ours that grew up with our grandfather.
It's a long story in itself that I won't go into the details, but he kind of helped raise them in a way when they're, even as young kids.
And so my friend was telling me at the age of six, our grandfather was teaching him how to shoot.
And I mean, he knew about guns, obviously.
So they're going to shoot and he said, He said, all right, now close your eyes and just envision hitting the bullseye.
And my friend would, you know, he was like, I don't know what you mean, but okay, I'll try it.
So he did it.
It worked. And my grandfather said, you know, the reason I'm teaching you at this age is because this is the age where you have no limitations.
There's no, you know, you don't have all those precondition, preconceived.
So he knew all about that for sure, based on just what my friend told me.
Well, it sounds like he might have had some special ops training, in other words.
Yeah, yeah. Okay, either of you have any one-on-one indication of that?
No, not directly any indication of that.
Capacity within him.
He was very spiritual, though I would say very dedicated to Native American culture in New Mexico where he lived.
I would only say the tie between us and our grandfather that would Steering that direction is our mom, because our mom's very spiritual.
She's an artist. She has some of the best luck of anybody I've ever known.
Same with my brother, who got hit by a train and miraculously is still standing and walking around.
So, there's certain things that have happened within the family like that.
And I think my mom, I don't know, I feel like she doesn't want to Even acknowledges sometimes, but she has, I believe, a lot of angels on her side, and I think maybe we kind of all do, but I don't remember anything directly with our grandfather other than that's the lineage that we have.
Okay, so he lived in New Mexico?
Towards the end, yeah.
Did he live near Los Alamos?
Was he in Albuquerque?
Taos. Sorry?
Taos, New Mexico. Taos?
Taos, yeah. All right.
So, did he ever talk about Dulce?
Yeah, like I mentioned, we went to Dulce together.
Now, he wouldn't say, again, he wouldn't go into details like with my brother, but he, by the time we got to Dulce, and before that incident happened, he said, all right, I want you to be, you know, he would just say things out of the blue, and he'd be like, you know, I want you to take...
Just remember, this is a very important place.
There's a lot of history.
There's a lot of stuff that happened here.
And right as he's saying that is when the SUVs come up behind us and say, basically, they were threatening to get us to get out of there.
So I vividly remember that occasion.
Like I said, not much detail that he would go in with me.
But we knew he was obviously...
So he was your grandfather, but you didn't live with him in the same house necessarily?
Right. So we grew up on the East Coast and he was in Texas and New Mexico for the time that we knew of his life.
We would always go out west to visit him.
Okay. Was he a pilot?
Yep. Yes. He was a pilot.
He used to have one of the hangars that go right to the back of the neighborhood in Dallas or Fort Worth or whatever.
I guess that was a popular place where you could actually fly your plane right behind your house.
So our parents remembered him talking about that.
But... He was like a cowboy.
He was the seventh or eighth child of his family and the only one that was adopted.
So he became adopted. So I think another reason he wasn't like tied to family per se growing up and he kind of felt like maybe he didn't have any Any ties to anything, if he needed to be of service or allegiance to whatever operations he was in, then he wouldn't have anything holding him back.
But your mother was definitely his daughter.
Yes. Okay.
He was in the Korean War, and he was stationed in Japan, and our grandmother's actually Japanese, so our mother was born in Japan until she was five.
It's kind of a crazy story. And our grandfather thought that he wasn't going to make it back from the war.
It was really, really intense. And so while he was over there, there was another man, I think he was from the Navy, that, you know, We kind of had the thing for our grandmother, our Japanese grandmother, and our grandfather told him, hey, if you take care of my wife and my family, because I don't think I'm going to make it home.
So the other man married our grandmother and brought our mom to the United States.
I believe when she was seven years old, after a couple years, our grandfather came back and he was alive, obviously, and he actually had to adopt his own daughter from his other man.
And it was almost like a kidnapping when it first happened, and then they made it official with documentation afterwards.
But we have the documents of all of that.
It's kind of wild. Yeah, I heard that, I guess, on what I watched previously, but it is a strange twist, you might say.
So he goes into the Korean War, he goes through all that, and then he comes back to the US, right?
Has to reassume his life there, even though he thought he might die, right?
And then Was he involved in secret stuff then?
Was there any idea that he was, or even aerospace stuff or whatever?
Well, based on when that sighting happened was 1949, and he was in Korea between 50, 52, or early 50s.
So he had already seen that first sighting, like, within two years of his starting the military career.
Okay. Shipped off to Korea or in between going to Korea and Japan.
So that was so early in his career.
That's why I think he was read in very, very, very, very fast.
And we don't know why he got into being a Conrad Courier and these other cryptographic things, but it seemed like that happened pretty rapidly.
Like he was pushed out.
So was he sort of a cryptographer?
Yeah, well, then this was for Eisenhower.
So this was in the early mid 50s.
I mean, put together the timeline.
So, yeah, he had that clearance at that time.
So, yeah. And if he was working on these other projects, we don't know exactly the direct trajectory of it all.
But I think it definitely started while he was early in the Air Force.
Hmm. Okay, so I guess I'll stop asking you questions now.
Can you tell me more about his story?
Because what we see is that he was in a lot of things, and you think he was involved in crash retrievals.
You're saying, did he write in his book about the crash retrievals he was involved in?
He mentioned that was part of his whole clearance that he had.
His Cosmos clearance was dealing with UFOs, extraterrestrials, and particleization, but the extraterrestrial part was the crash retrievals and whether it was the concealment, cover-up, whatever, the Men in Black portion of that.
So he did say that much?
Yes. And when was that published?
2003. Fairly recently.
And how old was he at that time?
75. Just about 75.
Okay. And he just...
How long ago did he die?
2007. Yeah.
But yeah, like I mentioned, his health was rapidly deteriorating, continually getting these mini-strokes.
Now that we look back, it's not hard to believe that once he started to speak about this with Dr.
Greer in 2001, he already had a mini-stroke.
He was already kind of losing it.
And I think that's why they kind of put him on the side.
Dr. Greer never talks about a grandfather after 20-some years.
It's like, well, he was just one of those...
But it's not like Greer wants to publicize what he said, because at the end of the day, he never got to say what he was going to say.
And he already had many strokes.
He already was kind of declining.
So there wasn't a whole lot of good to kind of bring him in the limelight.
So we know that. Okay, so maybe he knew he was being targeted at that point.
He was targeted, and maybe that's why he declined from saying what he was saying back then.
Yeah. And so in 2000, Dr.
Greer, that's when he recorded, before the Press Club hearing in 2001, he recorded the testimonies of all the people.
So there, if you look at the, like, what I originally got is a DVD from the Disclosure Project.
You know, he has this whole testimony, and a lot of the material that he talks about is what was his encounters and what he put into the book at that time.
So I guess that was the portion that he was Oh, so he has a chapter in Greer's book, because it was a book before it was a DVD. Yeah, it's in the book.
Yeah, actually, we have the book too, yeah.
Okay. Hmm, okay.
Well, there's a lot more here to dig out.
I don't know what you guys have done in terms of, you know, digging and hunting and things.
So, well, I know, you know, sorry, I just have a lot of questions, but so...
You told me some colleagues that he had.
Okay, so did he ever get in arguments or make a big deal about anything?
Did he get passionate over anything in your family or anything like that?
Yeah. Not about the topic in general.
I mean, he was just always wanting to say, like, you know, this is happening.
He would call me a star seed, a star child as a kid, which is weird because nobody talked like that back then.
Okay. But yeah, he was passionate about getting this information out, just the topic in general.
And he would just say things off the cusp.
And that's why my mom and my dad, especially my dad, was just like, well, he loved to talk about aliens.
And he was like, yep, you know, yep.
And so this is the way things are.
And like a matter of factly, this is the way it is, right?
So that's a great way to grow up is having someone in your family like that, at least from my point of view.
Yeah. Okay, so you guys got together at some point.
He wrote his book. He passed on.
At what point did you guys start doing your show?
Just around 2020, 2021, right?
Oh, that recently. Okay, so...
Well, like I said, we could have been, if we really, if this was a scam and we wanted to make money off of a book, which we don't have the rights to, we could have done it right after he published it.
But like, of course, we're like, should we even mention this to anybody?
We didn't want to mention, of course, we still don't want to mention it to people.
We still have a job and a career.
We don't want to just say this is, you know, what's happening.
Okay. Oh, that's kind of like strange.
Well, from my point of view, it's a little strange.
I mean, because there's been a lot going on, you know, since you were saying he was in the Stephen Greer disclosure book and so on and so forth.
So it would seem the cat is out of the bag, so to speak.
Now, yeah, you can have a choice if you believe it or not believe it.
It sort of surprises me that you would even question him.
You know, just saying, I mean, somebody's grandfather doesn't just make shit up out of the blue, you know what I'm saying?
Especially when they have a military career, you know, like that is fairly well regarded.
It was all very foreign to us because we didn't necessarily grow up I mean, so 2001, we didn't know he was part of the Disclosure Project.
We hadn't heard of what that was or knew he was there.
We didn't find out he was a part of it until his book came out.
And at that time, this was like all very brand new.
And so we were very skeptical.
I mean, there wasn't a lot of other people out there that the Disclosure Project was the first thing I'd ever seen about You know, anything publicly about UFOs or certain stuff like that.
To be honest, Carrie, when I started seeing Project Camelot was when I was like, oh, this might actually be true.
Seriously, Project Camelot, David Wilcock, like all that information started to come out like late, you know, the time frame.
But at that time it was like, okay, now we're trying to catch you on.
Yeah, we started in 2005.
Yeah. Right. Yeah, so for me, it was probably, I think, Derek, you probably started to follow things a little earlier than I, but like...
But it took you until 2020?
Well, no, it was just until we were comfortable to talk about it.
Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
I'm just, you know, I'm not trying to criticize you or anything.
I'm just on a human level, you know, because we're brought up.
In a mainstream kind of a way.
We were always passionate about it.
I've always been passionate about the topic and always felt like there's a connection to this.
But when... I'll be honest with you.
When COVID happened, that's when I said we have to say something.
We can't just...
I would say...
As we learned more stuff and got more into it, I definitely was passionate.
I was like, yes, I love this book now and I totally am all for it and everything like that.
And this was like... Way before 2021.
But I never felt, I guess, compelled that I would go public about trying to get it out there or anything like that.
That thought actually never occurred to me that we would have a show or anything like that.
There were shows about disclosure I didn't really even know.
Derek was coming to discover this stuff a lot further than I did.
I didn't know that people actually did this and talked about this until we went to a Contact in the Desert thing.
And I was like, wow, there's a whole world here of things.
It was 2019 when we had that experience, and then it was very shortly after, it's like, okay, everything's aligning.
We have a lot of...
People actually want to hear this stuff, so let's talk about it and let's move forward with it.
It was a journey just of us discovering and understanding and If my brother hadn't been wanting to do it, I probably wouldn't have just tried to go out of my way to do it on my own.
It's a big undertaking. But knowing that my brother said, okay, maybe there's something to this, that helps.
That definitely helped. Okay, but what about your mother?
So you say she had some psychic ability and so on.
I mean, she was his daughter, right?
There was some kind of weird break in the family going back in the history, right?
So, but you don't think that she followed in his footsteps or even, you know, would
acknowledge or talk of me like, is she still alive? Yes. So what what is her
perspective now?
It's hard to say. I think she's just, in a way, like, as she gets older, she kind of tunes out.
Like, okay, well, our parents got divorced as I was graduating high school.
And actually, when our grandfather went to 2001, caring with Dr.
Greer, was that when I was graduating, actually?
I don't remember that really well.
But my mom was, you know, they were getting a divorce.
She actually moved to the Caribbean.
Like, she moved out of the country.
Like, she was just, like, ready to...
Oh, really?
Okay. There was not a good upbringing.
And I think that's why you skip a generation when it comes to revealing information like this, especially when you're too close to the source.
And our mom was too close to the source in ways that probably were not even healthy for her.
Or if you don't feel like you had a good upbringing and you have these memories that you don't want to recall, then why would you want to promote or even...
But right now, you don't think that, you know, with all the disclosure out there and with all the sort of truth movements, does she have any, you know, focus?
I don't know how old she is at this point, but...
She's 73 or 74 now, but she, you know, like Derek said, when she moved to the Caribbean, she pretty much checked out of, like, mainstream everything.
no doesn't subscribe to anything that's like completely just in her own world just well ufos are still not really mainstream so that well i'm not sure that no no no i mean just not even about ufos but about anything out of all of that even that yeah just there she's on anguilla it's very it's like a small island there's there's not a lot going on there um but But, you know, she's, you know, she watches all our shows.
She's very much, you know, she watches your shows.
Oh, well, she's got some interest.
Yeah, but, you know, by a minute...
Did she ever read her father's book?
I think she has. I'm sure she has.
I mean, it's definitely not a passion of her.
It's not something she wants to...
She likes to learn about it as we talk about it, and she shares memories and things like this, but nothing UFO-related that she has had with our grandfather.
She enjoys it, but she doesn't have a passion for it.
She doesn't have that drive for it, and I think it's what Derek alluded to.
Okay, so... My last question, and then you guys can just talk about whatever you want, is, did you or he have any ET experiences growing up, dreams, experiences, that sort of thing?
Well, we were told after the fact that he had encounters.
Dan, do you want to say anything on that part about...
You've been told some of the sources that we've had recently talking about...
About our grandfather growing up?
Yeah, what he encountered during his career even.
And like the Immurther, you know, that was one thing.
Oh yeah, yeah. So we've recently started to talk to other sources about Within the ACIO and then other secret space program people that say they have files and access to various files have both two independent sources confirmed that, you know, he was a part of the origination of a lot of the secret soldier, super soldier programs and things like this back in the day.
You know, not collaborating with each other, but they have very similar stories.
We've had remote viewers, you know, review, I mean, see certain things of You know, having no idea, double-blind, remote viewing.
This was with Tony Rodriguez and his groups that he has where they picked up on this and, you know, these people aren't looking at UFOs every day.
They were just given a random number and everything led to, like, Underground bases, UFO technology, stuff like that.
And we had people who channel and had direct contact with him also have very similar stories to what the secret space program people were saying as well.
Like, a lot of different independent sources, and these are all not, you know, we don't have physical documents or anything like that, but these are all independent sources coming up with very similar stories about his involvement in these Black Ops programs from the get-go back when NJ-12 was starting and things like that.
Okay, but you're, I'm sort of, the question is really more about Did he talk about interaction with ETs, even in dreams or memories?
And the same with you guys.
Have you had any interaction with ETs?
That's what I thought you were asking. I know that was the question.
I was going to get to my part, but I was going to let you go first.
Oh, no.
Go ahead, Derek. You have an experience.
I have an experience that I can't deny in any way, shape, or form.
But as far as our grandfather, we only know from those and sources claiming that he was involved in some way.
I understand. Okay.
Not through his own.
No, and I don't think he's personally said.
But I think, you know, the way he was as a man, like, he would allude to things.
He wouldn't come out right out and say, I saw an alien last night, you know.
Right. The way he talked seemed like it was like they were his buddies.
Right. They're just there.
His answering machine would say, I'm on the mothership right now.
I can't talk, but I'm on the mothership.
I'll get back to you. Stuff like that.
When he did talk about that, his experiences, it was more...
It was not very, you know, this happened and this happened.
It was like telling a story of an event.
It's just like his connection on a spiritual level.
He was very spiritual about, you know, being aligned with the stars and everything like this.
And being, you know, he talked about Orion and everything like that.
It was more like on a spiritual level that he would kind of relay, you know, where he was from.
It wasn't like...
Okay, well, where was he from?
Did he think he came from another planet?
He said he came from Orion.
He would point to Orion's belt.
The second star in Orion's belt is what he always talked about, yeah.
What is the name of that one?
Do you know? It's Beetle, guys.
Basically, it's the...
Oh, all right. That's interesting.
So, but you guys...
So, one of you had an ET experience.
You, Derek...
Yes, well, I wouldn't say it's an ET, because as you know from other accounts, to be in Sean David Morton, like...
There could be terrestrials, Terran raptors or whatever you want to call them.
But what I saw was basically, I can't describe it other than a standing upright lizard coming at six foot at least tall.
But I only saw the silhouette of this.
And at the time, I didn't know what a reptilian was.
I was 15 years old.
I never heard of that. But me and my friend that I've mentioned earlier, we were both walking outside of our my
granddad's house in Taos.
And you just go across, you know, across the creek on the main interstate, which leads out to the mountains.
And we're heading, walking towards the mountains, middle of the night, you know, like 3 a.m.
And we were just, you know, just kids messing around.
I think he had a gun with him.
He wanted to, you know, just see if there's something to shoot at the middle of the night and just go down those highways.
So we're walking up the hill and the full moon's in front of us.
So all we see is this figure, a silhouette figure at the top of the hill, which was...
I would say like a hundred yards, maybe something like that.
And it was coming at us and it was upright.
I was like, what kind of animal would that be?
But I could make out like it was like hobbling with the tail behind it.
So again, I don't tell the story a lot because it sounds crazy to most people, but that was the most surreal moment where, you know, I saw something and somebody was with me and said, we both just ran.
We ran as fast as we could.
Okay. We both saw it.
And he even confirmed in the last couple years, yeah, that happened.
He remembers that. So that changes your mindset a little bit.
But of course, you just put it aside, you know, until how can you make sense of that until later when some of the other data points line up.
Okay. And now...
I know I said I wouldn't ask anymore, but this is still part of the same question.
So neither of you have had dreams or messages or messenger, ET messengers or any of that, even over this time when you've been kind of getting into this material or before?
Not really vivid dreams like that, where it's like a direct contact that I'm aware of.
You know, dreams are dreams, but I can't recall anything like that.
I haven't had that either.
I will say, I mean, this is not exactly that, but it's been very interesting.
Derek and I presented...
We gave a presentation about our grandfather at the Journey to Truth Conference back in May, and one of the audience participants, this woman from California, she apparently has a clairvoyant gift, and she was able to see our grandfather, she said. At the very end, there was like a speaker panel thing, and we were up there with everyone else, and she actually said she saw him there.
And since then, that was...
Five months ago, she has been in contact clairvoyantly with him, like, almost every day.
And she sends me the messages and things, and the amazing thing is...
She's both a binder of all the information she has about...
She gets these downloads from him, and it's an amazing connection.
And there's a lot of validations, like personal validations, that are, like, that really just, like...
Your heart starts to be real fast when you hear like some of the stuff's like, wow, how could she?
I mean, there's no way she's making this up and knowing exactly, you know, this thing that's gone.
It's not like this was one time session where she, you know, read the room or figured out something.
She's in California.
I'm in Pittsburgh. And it's like she's giving me these messages of And it's been blowing my mind quite a bit.
And there's a lot of, like, encoded information or something.
It's very hard. She's not really into all the technical ET stuff and all this stuff.
So there's a lot of things that she doesn't know.
What he's trying to tell her, but it's very cryptic, I'll say.
And so she's very diligent about it, though.
She's very passionate about it. Okay, well, did you get the impression, I mean, did he arrange this interview, for example?
Do you think that he's possibly been trying to reach you and communicate with you to get you guys to do what you're doing?
So you're trying to ask a specific question, like, have I had direct encounters with my grandfather, and has he communicated?
No, but I know he's with us, and I know that as I collected his, I'll say it this way, I inherited his library of books, all of his books.
So I basically could go back and read and see where he marked and dog-eared certain books and really study what he was looking at, and then add to that library.
But I've been doing that since I was a kid.
And you know, the first book he told me to read was The Twelfth Planet by Zacharization.
So he's like, if you want to know anything about the way the world really is, read this book.
Start with this book. So that was the foundation of, and I read all of his books, obviously, because he told me this is where the paper trail goes.
Trust me, I've gone through a lot of books, but I feel like it is synchronicity, and it's been so synchronistic ever since, and I think he has been a big part of that somehow.
Something comes up, and I'm like, that's important.
I need to find a link to that, and I'll find a book, and everything starts lining up.
And by the way, David Wilcock, in what he talks about, it's just amazing that his videos and information tie along so well with what our grandfather said and Where this trail is leading, it's kind of amazing.
And David Wilcox also interviewed our grandfather at 2001.
Oh, really? Okay, well that would be certainly an interesting link to send me as well.
But, okay, so...
Last question. Was there anything that he, you know, because Dulce Base is where a lot of the abductees were kept in cages and all of this.
Did you perceive any kind of anger?
Hidden anger or subliminal anger motivating him to want to tell the story in part because of what might be going on behind the scenes in relation to, you know, the abductions, the forced abductions, etc. I'm fairly certain there had to be a big reason also why he wanted to talk.
It just felt that way.
He kind of talks about, touches on that in the book that he's set up with the way everything's been secretive with the government and that's why he was so passionate about getting information out.
Okay, very good.
So, I know we've been going for a while, but now I do want to give you the stage to just speak about anything else that we haven't really touched on or that you feel that we've overlooked.
And let's do one at a time.
So, let's go with Daniel first.
Just to continue that thought kind of along the same lines of what we were just talking about, like, I do feel like with the messages I've been getting from this Clairvoyant communication with this woman, our grandfather, that he definitely wants us to keep pursuing this and to get this information out here.
It's very clear from the messages that she sent me.
And like I said, it's just the validations that make it so real.
But yeah, I mean, I think we covered most of his story and our journey along the way.
You know, besides going through the content of the book, which is, you know, all kinds of stuff.
You know, I think we've kind of covered that aspect of it.
Derek, if you have any other...
Yeah, I mean, I don't talk a lot about all the things that have happened to me.
There's only three that I really consider big events that have happened to me that kind of led me on this path of why I think this is important or why it seems relevant.
But the other one was, and Kerry, I know you talk about Kundalini a lot, and I had one of those awakenings.
I had basically that...
That energetic whatever happened to me and it was very intense, but it happened actually right after me and my brother went to contact in the desert in 2019.
And it was after being around all those people and that community, which we didn't really know even, you know, how big of a movement it was.
I had an idea, but I never had been immersed in it and really got to see, you know, What a family it felt like when you are in the core of that group of people.
And we met Laura Eisenhower there.
And she also helped spark our inspiration to talk, to be honest.
But I met a lot of other people there, too.
And just coming back from that, I was on a...
It was euphoric, I guess you'd say.
But I guess that energy helped activate something with me.
Because that night I came back, I had a full-blown kundalini.
And it was... Very intense.
It lasted for like 10 minutes.
But anyway, that was one of those points in my life was like, okay, this is...
There's something to this.
There's a reason why you went to this event.
There's a reason why you're looking for answers about our grandfather.
And that really propelled me and us to kind of start this journey, too.
The only other thing that happened, which is I don't like to tell the story so much because it's controversial
because it had to do with Using an Ouija board and I know that sounds crazy
But I was trying to contact their grandfather through because I knew friends that knew how to use the Ouija board
It's not a toy. It's it's I don't recommend doing it if you're and I wouldn't do it again
But I did it because these people that I was with used it on a regular basis to communicate with family
It was like just a natural thing to them.
And they could actually have conversations with their family.
And I was there to witness this.
I know they weren't just trying to make something up.
They were literally conversing with their dead relatives.
So I said, well, let me try our grandfather.
I've been trying and trying.
Tried a couple times. This last time I tried it, and it was with the woman and her two daughters.
They were all related, and they were women.
And I think that has something to do with when you do this.
But we obviously cleansed the room.
We were like, you know, a protective space that we wear when we did this.
But because I couldn't get to our grandfather, I asked for JFK. And lo and behold, I get a lot of...
And I start asking very specific questions and I got a lot of interesting information back.
And we've done shows about this and I don't say it lightly.
I mean, this is stuff that's I can't deny what happened.
If people don't want to believe me, that's fine.
But we definitely had some information come through when I did that.
And it's really relevant, I think, today to what's going on.
Okay, but it wasn't about your grandfather.
It wasn't. But because I was trying to contact him and I couldn't, that led me to that.
And that was the only kind of anomaly that happened in the course of my life that was kind of out there.
Sure. Okay, well, thank you guys.
It's very interesting, I'm sure.
Now, I do have an audience here.
I don't know if they have any questions, but everyone who's in the chat, if you want to, if there's any questions before we wrap up here.
Yeah. And I hope you'll share those couple of links, links to his book, links to, you said there was a video of him talking.
And also, if you could also share the link to the David Wilcock interview with your grandfather.
Well, that's actually not an interview that was ever put out.
I only know that from David Wilcock talking about it, and even in his books, he's referenced our grandfather a few times.
But we know he talked to him, and I'm still trying to get a hold of David Wilcock.
If you happen to still be in touch with him, it would be great to get, you know, firsthand, you know.
We saw him briefly at that contact in the desert and we showed him the book and he was like, yes, I remember your grandfather.
We talked about it, interviewed him, everything.
But since then, we haven't been able to reestablish connection with Davidson.
That's interesting. Okay.
All right. Well, yeah, because it's still a mystery, I would say.
There's lots of gaps there.
And it seems like, you know, there would have been colleagues.
Have you ever met colleagues?
That kind of thing? No.
I mean, again, it's not like he had a handler or he didn't have anybody that he was talking with at the end of his life.
But you say he was friends with, you know, Phil Schneider, you know, some of these people.
Yeah, the ones that were killed.
So, obviously, they're not. But nobody who came and hung around the house or that was known to your family, etc., etc.
No, not later on in life.
Or could you have overlooked that person?
Maybe you don't know. Maybe he was just a family friend, and maybe that friend was also part of the whole show.
I mean, yeah. I mean, at our point in time, we were teenagers.
We only saw him, like, once a year in the summer.
We didn't have to see him.
So it was, yeah. Yeah.
Absolutely, for sure. Well, okay, so I would suggest, just for more investigation, you might go back to your mother and find out, growing up, who were his friends, who were his colleagues, you know, who was a work buddy, or, you know, some innocuous person.
Gary, believe me, I've tried.
You know? No good?
All right.
Oh, well. All right.
Well, very interesting case, and certainly great to have that exposure, and I'm glad that you guys at least are pursuing it.
I hope that some more information will come forward, because it sounds, you know, like...
There's so much more, so much sketchy, you know, it's very sketchy.
So, you know, be really nice to get more information.
Do you have any hidden boxes stowed away, your mother's house, that kind of thing?
Anything like that?
I do. I have storage units that I, I don't know, this was like maybe 2000.
Yeah. All right.
Well, that might be a good place to, you know, bring a psychic along.
Dan, you've got to mention the fact that this woman who says she's in contact directly with him, he's pointing to the storage unit and saying, here.
So it's been communicated.
Well, that'd be great to get some evidence that way.
Yeah, there's a lot to look through.
I barely scratched the surface.
There's plenty to dig into there.
But yeah, definitely. Yeah, because everything leaves a trail.
It could be the most innocuous trail, you may not realize.
It brings to mind a thing that happened when I was a kid, okay?
So I was the only kid that got this wine bottle that was given to my parents that was inscribed for my 21st birthday with my name and everything and a special gift from a special friend.
Never learned anything about the person, whatever, but open this, you know, saying open this when she is 21.
And it was like when I was born, right?
Gave a bottle of wine, a special bottle of wine, very unusual situation.
So, in other words, that is like a trail, you know what I'm saying, that you can follow.
And there are little tiny things that might seem insignificant that you can...
You know, follow a trail.
My intention is to kind of document as I go through these boxes, kind of try to document, photograph as much as I can and just have it so that we can have access to it so we can look back at it and see if we can piece something together.
Okay, well, very good.
Come back to me if you have more in the future, and I'm sure my audience would also be very interested to hear more.
Okay, so thanks for being on the show, and thanks everyone for watching and listening and sharing.
Yeah, so if you also, because we put your link to your YouTube, do you also have an email that you can send me, like, however you like to be contacted by the public, because there might be some people with, maybe they knew your grandfather, or maybe they, you know, would be asking questions or want to talk to you.
Yep, I'll send that to you as well.
Okay, so we'll put that under the video if you send it to me.
All right? Great.
Perfect. All right.
All right. Thanks, guys.
And, yeah, let's do this again sometime.
Absolutely, yeah. All right.
Thank you. Take care.
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