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April 2, 2022 - Project Camelot

01:41:21

JOHN LEAR TRIBUTE SHOW : CELEBRATING A GREAT PILOT AND SHOWMAN

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	Thank you.
	Thank you.
	So this is a tribute to a very famous man, John Lear, and he was an amazing pilot and UFO researcher.
	He was a lot more complex than that and he was just an amazing, amazing person.
	We've got Okay, we got somebody else coming on board here.
	And I don't want to say his name because I don't know what he wants to go by.
	Hello?
	Who's that knocking at the door?
	Who's that ringing?
	Hi there.
	Can you hear us?
	Okay, we're going live already.
	We are live.
	Listen, is this...
	I'm not sure what you want to go by, so I don't want to call you by name.
	You got Jim Vai on the screen there.
	That's what it says.
	So that's what we're going to call you.
	Is that okay?
	You got...
	Okay, we can't hear you.
	I think he goes by Ashtar.
	Is that the Ashtar, Commander?
	No, this is actually an extremely, what do I say about him?
	An author.
	Okay, I can say he's an author.
	He's a wonderful author and a brilliant man, and he has some Some friends and compatriots, and I think if he reveals himself, which I hope he's going to...
	Hello?
	Are you there?
	All right.
	Well, you know, always mysteries going on with Camelot, so this is a mystery guest.
	Just not pressing his button, I guess, to join with audio, so...
	Yeah, maybe he's getting his stuff together.
	Okay, so we have Jim Goodall, a wonderful pilot, a very famous pilot, and we've got Sean David Morton, a famous broadcaster, author, producer, and I'm going to let you guys introduce yourselves as well.
	My introduction is going to be very brief here.
	And we've got the famous...
	Infamous Rick Doty with us, and he knew John and wanted to share some stories here.
	So everyone, I think a lot of my audience will know who Rick Doty is.
	He worked for the DIA back in the day, and I'm not sure what he's doing lately.
	We're going to find out.
	And we've got Jim Vi.
	Are you there yet?
	And we are expecting other people, so we're just going to roll with the story here.
	So why don't we go with Jim Goodall right now?
	And it's so nice to meet you.
	I don't understand why John didn't introduce us, and you could have come on my show.
	I've been watching a show that you did with someone else, and you're a big talker, and you obviously love the blackbird.
	Is that correct?
	Much less big than he was.
	Well, according to Ben Rich, who replaced Kelly Johnson at Skunk Works, from a historical point of view, no one knows more about the Blackbird program than I do.
	You'll have to come on my show and tell me all about it.
	I'm giving a presentation at Beale on April 27th.
	I'm giving a presentation on the history and development of the Blackbirds.
	I said, well, why am I doing it there?
	That was the home of the Blackbirds, and I realized it's been 32 years since an SR-71 took off for the last time at Beale.
	So there are people who've been there their whole career have never seen one fly.
	I was 18 when I saw my first one.
	But my friendship with John Lear starts about 1973-74.
	My dear friend John Andrews from the Tester Company, he introduced me to him.
	And because of John Lear, I met Bob Lazar, George Knapp, and the list just goes on and on.
	But we just shared a common love of airplanes.
	He loved the Blackbird.
	In his former den or study, there was about 20 of my photos up on his wall.
	You couldn't put anything else on the wall because the wall was totally populated.
	But he was just a character.
	Every time I think about John, I think about his laugh and that smirk of his, and those nasty cigars he smoked.
	And I went out of my way, it was last October, where I had taken a group, a couple of people out in their Area 51 to see what was going on out there.
	And on the way back, I said, you guys want to meet John?
	And I had talked to him earlier, and he said, yeah.
	And we went to see him.
	My heart just ached for Lear, for such a vibrant human being to see him in the condition he was in.
	But he was delighted to see everybody, and it was just fun.
	But a number of the funny things that happened with John Lear and I, again, I will get into talking about how I met Lazar through John Lear.
	And it was back in January of 89.
	They had just announced the existence of the F117. So I drove up to Las Vegas.
	John and I had to say, we're going to go on a little trip.
	So we're going up US 95, heading towards Tonopah.
	And we had just passed Scotty's Junction, that infamous little house ill reputed.
	The government ran out of business.
	And about 10 miles north of Scotty's Junction, an F-117 went flying right by me, right in front of us.
	And I almost crashed the car.
	And the leader said, hey, we got to go.
	We got to go.
	Let's go.
	So I stepped on it a little faster, got up to Tonopah, had a quick bite, and then went down US-6, made the turn at Tonopah test range, went down the 18 miles to the gate, and then down the fence line.
	And there, we were looking at the entire base.
	We went about two miles west on the fence line.
	And I could see a black dot and a real small little white dot next to it, and they're coming in on a long final.
	And this is before digital photography, and I was really excited to shoot the 117, because they had just released that one terrible photo.
	And John is all excited about seeing it as well.
	And I have Kodacolor 100 in my camera.
	I had a Nikon with good lens.
	And I see this black thing coming towards me.
	And as it's filling up the viewfinder, my body starts reacting like I'm a 10-year-old boy seeing a naked woman for the first time.
	I mean, the whole thing's just vibrating.
	The layer's just laughing at me with that laugh of his.
	So I go through all 36 exposures, and we have to head back to Las Vegas.
	To go to a photo mat to get the film processed.
	And John said, well, it stopped a little lately.
	And so we stopped there and had a bite.
	And time we got back to Las Vegas, back to his house, it was after nine o'clock.
	There wasn't any of the photo mats were open, so I had to wait till the next day.
	But we were at John's house, you know, about 10 minutes.
	He said, I got a friend of mine coming over.
	He just moved here.
	And I think you'll enjoy meeting him.
	So about 10 minutes later, knocking the door, John goes, answers the door, and a very nice young man comes walking in, introduces himself as Bob Lazar.
	And I told him about my dilemma with the film, and he said, hey, I got a fix for that.
	I have a C41 processor at home.
	I live off of West Charleston.
	Let's jump in my car and go.
	So we're about a block from Lear's place, and Lazard looks at me and says, you know, I feel sorry for that son of a bitch in Lear.
	I said, what do you mean?
	He said, that dumb son of a bitch believes in UFOs.
	I'm a nuclear physicist.
	If I can't prove it mathematically or touch it, it doesn't exist.
	This is just before he went to work out in the desert.
	So John Leary introduced me to a guy who didn't believe in UFOs.
	You couldn't put a gun to his head at that particular point in time.
	And a year later, he's just a silhouette with an altered voice talking about working on reverse engineering of alien spacecraft.
	So, you know, my stuff with John goes round and round.
	Okay, now, wait one second, Jim, because I want to go around the circle here and get everyone a minute to talk.
	Okay.
	And so we'll come back to you.
	Thank you for that fabulous story.
	We've got all, I'm sure we've all got stories to tell about Bob Lazar as well, so we can do that.
	So let me go around.
	Sean David Morton If you're on, why don't you introduce yourself?
	I was going to say, why don't you talk to Richard first?
	I'll back clean up.
	I had one question of Jim.
	Jim, didn't John fly the SR-71 a bunch of times?
	Wasn't he a CIA pilot that flew it?
	Lear?
	No.
	No.
	No?
	No.
	Okay.
	All right.
	I know.
	I've met everybody pretty much who flew the A-12.
	Okay.
	What about, I mean, was he just...
	Okay.
	Well, Sean, excuse me, but we're going to do it my way.
	I know you're used to...
	No problem.
	No problem.
	I'm sorry.
	Sean and I go way back, so don't even think twice about...
	We're going to fight no matter where we are, what we do.
	Like brother and sister, really.
	Okay, so Rick Doty, you're up.
	Go ahead, introduce yourself, however you like to do that.
	Okay, I'm Richard Doty.
	I'm the retired special agent that had worked at Area 51.
	I was a counterintelligence officer out there.
	I worked for the Defense Intelligence Agency, also for the Air Force, but my association with Air Force dealt mostly from the DIA. So Getting on to John.
	I first met John when he was flying out of Grim Lake in the early 80s.
	He was a shuttle pilot flying people from one Part of the Nellis test and training range to another.
	And I had business up in Tonopah, Tonopah Air Force Base.
	And he flew me from Groom Lake up to Tonopah, just him and I in a plane, twin engine Beechcraft.
	And I'd never met John before.
	He'd never met me before.
	And we had a, I think the flight was 38 minutes.
	We had a very, very detailed discussion about what was on the Nellis Test and Training Range and what wasn't.
	And I just sat there and listened to John.
	It was more or less John talking.
	Anybody who knows John, you know, he starts talking, he's going to take over the conversation.
	And he would occasionally stop, hesitate and look over at me and say, you have any comment on what I just said?
	And I said, no, no, I'm, you know, I'm up here.
	I'm all ears.
	Anyways, he told me some secrets.
	He claimed to be secrets about Tonopah.
	He said, you know, you're going up to a very interesting place.
	He said, I'm going to fly over a part of the base, a part of the best range that you're going to find out about later.
	He said, I can't tell you what's down there, but you're going to find out later.
	So I said, okay, what does it pertain to, John?
	He said, well, I can't tell you that.
	So we fought.
	He veers a plane.
	He goes low down, you know, maybe a thousand feet.
	He says, look at that mountain right there.
	And I'm looking over at the mountain.
	He said, that's Uranium Mountain.
	He said, something secret's in there.
	And I said, I'm waiting for him to tell me what it is, but he didn't.
	I said, you know, John, I'm the counterintelligence officer for Grim Lake.
	I don't have...
	I mean, I have all my tickets punched.
	If it's something...
	He said, well, they'll tell you when you land at Tonopah.
	And just as we were getting ready to come in at Tonopah on our final approach, an A7D... Now, anybody that knows anything about the F-117 program...
	During the test period, any time the F-117 took off, the A-7 always was either the chase plane or the photographic plane.
	The A-7D was an older Air Force jet that always flew alongside of the F-117 during the test program up there.
	When an A-7D just took off, And then John banked really hard.
	He was talking to ground controller.
	He banked real hard to the east.
	He said, oh, we can't miss this.
	And I didn't know what he was talking about, because he's listening to air traffic control down in the ground, and I'm listening to him, but I'm not a pilot, and I don't know what they're talking about.
	And they kept telling him to switch to a different frequency.
	Well, John didn't.
	And eventually, as we banked, John said, now look back.
	We're not supposed to see this.
	And just after the A7 took off and F117 took off.
	Now, this is the early 80s.
	This is the time period when this was highly classified.
	And I said, well, I knew what they were, and I knew the program.
	I'd been briefed into it, so I knew what it was.
	And John said, you know what that is, don't you?
	And I said, yes, it's an F117. It's the test version.
	He said, how would you know that?
	And I said, well, as I said, I'm briefed into the program.
	So anyways, we land, we get out, he lets me out.
	Ironically, he couldn't get out of his airplane.
	He wasn't cleared for Tonopah.
	It was really upsetting.
	So I got off, and that was the very first time I met John.
	And I met him, and I've had discussions with him many, many, many times over the years, including me on the History Channel with him.
	So that's the beginning of my association with John Lear, and I'll let Sean take over from here.
	Okay, just real briefly, I don't know if Jim V, this person is, you know, he's going to hear us.
	You want to come on the show here?
	Oh, I'm really here to listen, but I will say John Lear was the most cited pilot in history, supposedly.
	That's what a good friend of mine who for foreign leaders a lot told me.
	The only thing I would say is my father worked for Allen Dulles.
	He was a general, but he used the label kernel to avoid Problems.
	And because of that, I've been a psychologist for many years.
	The DOD was sending me high-level spooks for years and they told me all these stories about deep underground bases and tunnel drilling machines that, you know, drilled a mile of tunnel.
	I didn't believe any of it.
	And only after I started listening to your show and hearing, you know, credible people talk about it.
	Was all that stuff true?
	Now I've come to the point where I believe it was.
	And I think the Well, I'm very honored that you decided to join us.
	I'm not going to blow your cover, but I will say you're an amazing writer.
	I think I can get away with that much.
	And I can't believe that you learned what you learned from my show, because I would say you know a hell of a lot.
	So, I don't know.
	Well, anyway, thank you.
	Okay.
	People, you're getting a treat here.
	Anyone watching this is getting a real treat.
	All right, and we've got Lorian Fenton.
	She runs conferences, and I don't know if she considers herself a super soldier at this point.
	I've interviewed her in the past.
	Welcome, Lorian.
	Thank you for joining us.
	She said she had a story to share.
	Yeah.
	Hi, Carrie.
	Hi, guys.
	It's good to see you all here.
	Morian Fenton, super soldier.
	Yeah.
	Hey, I don't know what I am anymore, you guys.
	I feel like the beaten up old Wicked Witch of the West here, I'm telling you.
	But yeah, John, I just got a quick story for you guys about John.
	You guys all know that I interviewed him for Contact in the Desert this last year.
	And I'm not going to go into that kind of story because I'm telling you, just getting that video together, Carrie knows.
	I mean, it was like, oh my God, you have no idea.
	I'm not going to tell that story until it's way past.
	But I am going to tell you the story about when Carrie came to the conference in Laughlin to interview John.
	What I went through to get John there was like, You guys, you have no idea.
	John is, and I love him to death.
	I've been to his house with Miles Johnston back in 2012, I think.
	It's the first time, or 11, 10, something like that.
	I met John with Miles.
	And I've got to tell you, that was an experience I could put in a book.
	But I'm going to tell you guys this one story.
	I'm trying to get John to this conference, and Kerry's agreed to interview him.
	And he says, I won't be interviewed by anybody.
	He was going on and on.
	You guys know how John is.
	He's very particular about who he talks to and when he talks to him.
	And I said, well, oh, I couldn't get anybody that would...
	First of all, I couldn't get anybody to interview him.
	And then when I gave him a list of people, he said, no, I don't want any of those people, you know.
	And I'm like, okay, John, well, who in the hell is it going to be then?
	I said, Carrie?
	He goes, yeah, I'll have Carrie do it.
	I said, okay.
	So Carrie doesn't know this, but she was my last and only hope.
	I basically texted her.
	I mean, I know that I was kind of a last-minute grab, but I will say that...
	Actually, that speaking engagement shut on up for life.
	So I have to say that that was a tragic event behind the scenes, I'm just saying.
	But he was like a diva, right?
	He...
	Oh yeah, but I, you know, I had no problem with the diva carry.
	It was just so ironic that I finally, you know, I'm at my wits and I had thrown your, you and Bill's name out there already, okay?
	And he had turned you down already.
	So I was like, come on, John, you got to pick somebody, you know?
	And I said, it's not going to be me.
	I don't want to be up on stage with you.
	And here's why.
	And I just want to tell you guys all this.
	So Carrie kindly said yes.
	It was an amazing event.
	And what I have at my house right now is I have both of your badges.
	They are.
	And I was going to give them to you, Carrie, so you can auction them off someday and make a little money off of these things, because they are a classic.
	Actually, I'd like to see that footage make it into the world.
	The footage got destroyed.
	You heard what happened, right?
	No, I didn't hear, but I'm not going to believe you anyway.
	Well, it's absolutely true, Carrie.
	It's absolutely true.
	What happened...
	Yeah, what happened to everybody's presentation, we had bought a second-hand TriCaster.
	And the TriCaster was broken and we didn't know it because it looked like it was recording properly, but what it was doing, it was off sync by...
	Twenty-some seconds and it was all pixelated.
	Everything.
	Everything was destroyed.
	It was crazy.
	Anyhow, so back to John.
	There's more than one camera going, so there's probably a copy out there.
	You may not be aware of that.
	But I thank you for that story.
	Is that the end of your show?
	No, that's not even that.
	I'm trying to get to the crux of the whole situation.
	So I'm trying to get John to the event, and he's demanding a limousine and this and that and the whole bit, right?
	So I finally get to him and I say, John?
	You can't have a limousine.
	We're going to rent you a car.
	Your daughter's going to bring you and all this.
	And he's finally agreeing to all this.
	But I had to get permission from the people putting on the conference to spend money on the rental cars and all of the items that he requested.
	He needed a scooter.
	There was a whole bunch of things he needed.
	And I had no permission to get these things.
	So I said, John, just hold on and I'll get back to you in a week or two.
	You know, I just got to get the funding, right?
	So he goes on Facebook and he tells everybody that I refuse to give him a car.
	I refuse to give him mobility.
	I refuse to do all this.
	And he's got it all over Facebook.
	He puts my private phone number, my private email, and he gets people to start doxing me and giving me death threats because I refuse to get him a rental car, right?
	And I had never...
	Yeah, and I'm just cracking up because I go on Facebook and I say, John...
	I said two weeks, can't you just wait till I can get the money?
	I said, it's not like I turned you down.
	It's just like, I'll get you the money.
	So he continues all the way up until the conference to badmouth me on Facebook, get people to give me death threats.
	I mean, people were calling me.
	Carrie was crazy.
	And I just let it all go.
	Every other day on that too.
	And so I had to calm him down and I had to You know, consultant.
	That's right!
	You're part of that.
	He was in, you know, this is towards the very end of his life, and he was also, you know, in a great deal of pain.
	Yes.
	God knows what he was actually taking.
	So, I just have to say, he wasn't always like that.
	No, no, and that's what I'm going to finish the story with.
	This has a happy ending, actually.
	So we get to the conference, Carrie's there, they do the whole bit, and it's all over, and John is being kind of like avoiding me this whole time, right?
	He gets off the stage, he comes out, and I know he wants to get paid, right?
	I've got the envelope.
	So he comes up to me sheepishly, and he goes...
	Well, did I do okay?
	And I said, you did wonderful, John.
	I said, in spite of the fact that you've got your gang out there trying to kill me, I love you, and there's nothing you can do to scare me away from you.
	And I gave him a big hug and a kiss, and he started laughing, and I said, here's your payment.
	And we've been great friends ever since.
	So I just wanted to let you guys know that, you know, John, you just have to, you know, get through all the gruffness.
	And there was a real genuine, loving human being underneath there.
	And his daughter, Allie, and I have become friends.
	And it's just been a wonderful experience.
	And that Contact in the Desert footage, I don't know if you guys could ever pay to watch it, but I thought it was pretty good for the last...
	Interview really on camera of what he had to say.
	It was really a synopsis, Carrie, of everything you've ever said with him.
	But it was kind of concise and in an hour and 15 minutes and just, you know, kind of a slam bang.
	But people should watch your interviews with him.
	Oh, yeah, for sure.
	Definitely.
	Anyhow, so that's all I had to say is that I loved him dearly.
	And, you know, if you got through all that gruffness, there was a great guy underneath there.
	Thank you so much, Lorian.
	That's great.
	And you guys, you know, as we go through this, I know it may get long because we got people here and we got other people that might want to come aboard.
	So if you need to go, it's fine.
	Not a problem.
	But thank you, Lorian.
	I really appreciate coming here today.
	Thank you.
	We're going to give Sean a chance.
	So if you want to stick around for Sean, Sean's always a great person to listen to.
	Okay, Sean, your turn.
	Well, again, I've always been in awe of John Lear and his family, and people just don't realize.
	I've been behind the scenes in so many ways on so much stuff.
	And when I first met John, it had to do with the UFO documentary that we were doing with Joe Randazzo and our camera guy, Dick Kishansky.
	And we interviewed Bob Lazar in 1990, which actually then led us to meeting John.
	And people just don't realize that John has been behind the scenes on so many things.
	I mean, on so much that we would not have the UFO world that we have today, whether or not you want to call it legend or myth or what have you.
	Bottom line, without John Lear, first off, his name, because his father invented the Learjet.
	Second off, he was an amazingly accomplished pilot.
	The pain that you were talking about was because he was in a couple of crashes, I think.
	And I know that one crash destroyed his legs.
	He had horrible problems with his knees and his shin, both shins, actually, which is what caused him all the pain and why he was insisting on carts and cars and other stuff at Lorien's conference.
	But...
	People don't know that the Area 51 story and Bob Lazar and George Knapp being connected with it basically begins and ends with John Lear.
	John was the one that...
	This is odd because I believe John met Bob.
	Once again, I believe now that John met Bob because he was Bob's wife's flight instructor originally.
	And she went off with another flight instructor, actually.
	And the second flight instructor then wound up having an affair with Bob's wife, which is why Bob claims that he was denied clearance and why he only worked a grand total of like 16 days at Area 51.
	But it was John, after teaching his wife how to fly, and then Bob came into the whole thing because he talked about being a physicist and that he was looking for work and all this.
	And it was John who pushed Bob Into making the tremendous call.
	And I had to hear a lot of the stories.
	First off, it's very interesting because when we first interviewed Bob in 1990, he told a number of stories and gave a history that he has since recanted, that he has since glossed over.
	And I don't want to call it lied about or whatever.
	But for example, when I read his book, Dreamland, and I thought, wow, this is going to make a great movie and all this stuff.
	And I'm looking through the book going, this is crap, this book.
	I mean, this is all junk.
	And this is not the stuff that I heard directly from John about stories that Bob had told him about what was going on, which were amazingly.
	And let me just tell you that it was John Lear that said, and Bob had a business card, and the business card was from Dr.
	Edward Teller.
	And the story goes that when Bob was working at Los Alamos, and a lot of people may or may not know this, but when Bob was working at Los Alamos, they had just run a story in the newspaper about Bob.
	Los Alamos man joins the jet age.
	I think it was on the front page of the local Los Alamos newspaper.
	So he comes in to eat his lunch, and there's like an outside patio or something like that, and all the tables were full, and Bob literally just sits down next to this old German guy and says, you know, would you mind if I sit here and eat my lunch?
	And he says, no, young man.
	He said, oh, you're the man from the paper with the jet engines.
	And he said, yes.
	So they started striking up a conversation.
	And this conversation was with Dr.
	Edward Teller, the inventor of the hydrogen bomb.
	And he starts talking about what he was doing at Los Alamos.
	Teller gives him his business card and says, if you want to get back into physics and the real hypothetical physics, then give me a call.
	So John knew he had this card and he said, why don't you call Teller?
	I mean, it can't hurt.
	And why don't you ask him about Area 51?
	And so John was the one that pushed him to that.
	And so Bob made that call, spoke to Dr.
	Teller.
	And in that particular case, he said, I'm looking to get back into physics and I've heard about someplace called Area 51 and I don't know if there's anything, but I just heard about it, and maybe there's jobs there.
	And Teller said, big long pause on the phone, and Teller said, see what I can do, and hung up the phone.
	Now the whole rest of the adventure comes down through John, where John's like, take the job, take a look at it.
	Something weird's going on there.
	And this was, now John had just, you used to be able to just walk over the hill when you were coming down 375, which they've now renamed the Extraterrestrial Highway, thanks to all of us going out there and watching UFOs fly around.
	By the way, Jim Goodall will probably remember this.
	Remember the jerk from popular science?
	Stuart Brown?
	Yeah.
	Stuart Brown was always dissing us in popular science.
	We had A crystal clear photo that was taken by Gary Schultz of one of the saucers over the hill that I mailed to Popular Science because they were making fun of us and they were calling us all morons and idiots and we were lying and this was all stuff that they were just working on.
	And I said, well, here's a picture.
	I dare you to run it.
	I double dog dare you.
	And I actually wrote him a long letter Which only, you know, came out to about that much, where I basically just said they're all idiots and liars, and they all worked for the CIA, and that we have photographs of this stuff that they refuse to run, and that they're basically just lying to people.
	And of course, then Stuart Brown started tearing all of us apart, just because we were the ones that were doing the ground research to actually get it out there.
	So, Bob, the interesting story about this is that Bob His first interview, this is coming from John now, is where Bob goes over to EENG, which has a big, they've got a big hangar over at McCarran Airport.
	And Bob came into this hangar.
	He said it was all very James Bondian.
	Sits in a single chair.
	And these five or six scientists, I think, file out.
	Nobody else in the hangar.
	And they sit behind a table.
	And he says they grill them for about four hours.
	And they ask him questions like, you know, do you believe in time and space?
	Do you think, what about Einstein?
	What about special relativity?
	Do you think we can defeat gravity?
	Is there a way that, is there an equation maybe where we can...
	Do something about gravity or finding out what gravity does or what gravity is, not what it does.
	And it's, you know, this weird kind of science grilling that then led to Bob getting the job, which John was very excited.
	Now, John had all these photos where he would just walk over the low hills and he would take photos because there was a chain that just was connected with posts.
	And you could literally just walk right out of the runway and kind of take pictures of it.
	And then that all changed In late 87, when the Area 51 guys, or 5-1 as they call it, they applied to the state of Nevada to expand their borders by 89,000 acres.
	And the state of Nevada said no.
	And there was, by the way, private property there, because not only were ranchers had cattle and all that, but there was also an old guy, I forget his name, but he ran the Groomed Silver Mine, which is actually on the property there.
	And the 5-1 guys said, well, screw you, and they just took it.
	And they just took the land.
	89,000 acres expanded their border, and then you could go beyond the hills, which caused problems with the ranchers, caused problems with the groomed mine, because now this guy had to get special military permission to go visit his own property.
	And Harry Reid got involved, interestingly enough, who also just died, I think.
	And Harry Reid had all these hearings.
	Where he had the Commandant of Nellis, it's very funny, you can still find it on YouTube someplace, where he had the Commandant of Nellis say, he said, well so what gives you the right to just confiscate 89,000 acres of public land That belongs to the state of Nevada, the sovereign state of Nevada.
	And he said, well, we answer to a higher power than you, sir.
	And Reed was, of course, kind of flabbergasted and said, well, who's higher than the Congress of the United States?
	And the guy kind of looked around and said, well, you know, we'll discuss that behind closed doors.
	And then the other funny thing was is that Reed said, well, what goes on there?
	And the Commandant of Nellis said, I don't know.
	I don't have the clearance to go.
	And so then they were even more flabbergasted.
	And apparently Reed, this is kind of a pattern.
	Reed actually then visits the base.
	And this is another thing that Lazar told us that he never let out.
	But apparently they give you this as a refreshment.
	They give you this pine-scented Kool-Aid.
	And apparently this Kool-Aid that you drink like scrambles or marbles or does something.
	And after that, everybody says, oh, it's fine.
	They can do whatever it is they want.
	But to give you the adventures of Lear, and let me give you one other thing about this.
	When they closed the border, I started going to the sheriff.
	When we started going out there, I mean, as I said, we did the dock in 1990.
	Lazar said on camera, or actually told me, I think it was behind camera, where he said, look, you don't have to believe a single thing I say.
	You go out to Highway 375, you go stand at the Steve Medlin's mailbox, which I think was black at that time, it's white now, on an 18-mile highway marker on Wednesday nights as the sun goes down, and you'll see flying saucers.
	So it took me a year to get out there, and then I took a friend of mine who was a writer for the LA Times, and we literally had a saucer almost hit the car.
	I mean, it came across the road, came into the road, flattened out, and then kind of shot off.
	And we chased after it, and we got our faces burned by it and all kinds of bad things.
	And we were sick for days.
	But they expanded the border.
	So I remember it was 1991, and it was December 6th, which was John's birthday.
	And I said, do you want to go?
	I found this mountaintop.
	And I went to the sheriffs.
	And I said, look, I'm going to go climbing up this mountaintop.
	I'll be on this side of the line.
	So I want you guys messing with me.
	I have no intention of going into anybody's border.
	Because then the cops did start showing up, started saying, well, you're challenging their border.
	And I said, if I enter the state of Nevada, is that challenging their border?
	Because that's pretty ridiculous.
	There's a line.
	And I'm going to be on this side of it.
	So I found the hilltop that actually looked down on the base.
	It was May 30th of 91, I think it was.
	I am positive it was May 30th of 91.
	And something weird was going on.
	I mean, some...
	They wanted us out of their bad.
	And much later that day, there was a bizarre, huge hurricane almost that was epicenter at Area 51 that knocked out all the power in Las Vegas that day.
	I had a bunch of Wackenhut guys actually going through the car because I was up on top of the hill looking down on it.
	My girlfriend, Junis, was actually asleep in the tent.
	And these Wackenhut guys had found a way to open the car and they were tearing the car apart.
	And I got back and my wallet was gone.
	And I had to go back to, because I had a Nevada driver's license, and I'd drive all the way back to Las Vegas to get my driver's license back after these guys had stolen it.
	So I took John up on January 6th.
	Now, the weird thing about it was I had to literally, like, with ropes and a scarf, I actually kind of strapped him to my back.
	And together, we made it up the hill because his legs were so bad.
	But when we actually got to the top of the hill, he was completely fabricated.
	And the first thing he said, he said, you know, in that deep, gravelly voice, he said, my God.
	Why aren't you dead?
	I said, come on up, man.
	Take a look at the hill.
	And he said one of the great moments of his life.
	And people also don't realize that when he teamed up with Bill Cooper.
	And Bill Cooper was interesting because then it got to the point where Bill Cooper later in his life, he was drinking a lot and he began to just lie about stuff.
	And when, and this culminates at Dulce, which Mr.
	Doty might know a little bit about, since rumor has it that...
	Yeah, I was going to say, Rick Doty probably knows.
	You know about Bill Cooper, right?
	Oh yeah, very much.
	Very much.
	We can do a six-hour show on here.
	About all these players, every single one of them is fascinating.
	John Lear was the touchstone.
	He was the guy, again, his father, inventing the Learjet.
	His father was very much involved in the entertainment business.
	His sister, Shandell, was kind of her own force as well.
	His wife, Sherry, ran one of the top...
	His wife was a casting director.
	Yeah, she ran the top casting agency in Las Vegas.
	So he was connected in with all these big people.
	People just forget the angel wing that's behind so many other people, that that wing just kind of puts you in the right direction.
	And John was always that.
	He was always graceful.
	He was always a person that had great stories to tell.
	I never got the rude part of John.
	He was always amazing to me because every time...
	As a matter of fact, I'll tell you one other interesting story.
	I don't know how he would have known this.
	But because he knew we were going out there like every other Wednesday, and we were photographing stuff and filming the saucers, and I was the one that got shot at by one of the helicopters.
	Actually, they didn't shoot at me.
	They shot at my camera.
	All kinds of weird adventures.
	But John said, go all the way up the road to 375.
	He said, go on this Wednesday night.
	He says, you're going to go all the way up the road.
	You're going to go all the way up to a place called Warm Springs.
	And at Warm Springs, I want you to stop At a burned out gas station up there.
	And he says, you sit and look down the valley at 9.30 exactly on that Wednesday.
	And you know what?
	I was like, okay, why not?
	You know, nothing else to do.
	And by myself, I don't know, because I used to go around, this is really dumb, by the way, but I used to go around by myself.
	And when I wasn't in a car with Bill Cooper, and Bill Cooper always had a gun on him, and I was like, what's the gun for?
	And he goes, oh, if these guys find me out here, they'll kill me.
	And I was like, okay.
	And, of course, Bill eventually was shot by a bunch of sheriffs on his front lawn for being drunk and waving a shotgun at him.
	He was Navy intel, so...
	Yeah, but he was not as much Navy intel as he let on being Navy intel.
	But that's a whole other story.
	Anyway, so I'm up at Warm Springs, and I'm sitting there just looking down the road going, well, you know, that was fun.
	It's an interesting kind of thing.
	It's 930, and on a stack of Bibles, two ships, two saucers come screaming down the valley.
	I mean, just...
	And stop, like right near the Warm Springs thing, and start doing these weird maneuvers and kind of a dance around each other.
	And John somehow knew about this.
	And I was completely in shock because I was trying to get a picture of it and trying to get some film of it.
	But these things were flying all around, zipping all around, the whole dance, almost like they were putting on a show for me.
	And then they shot back down the valley again.
	But John also, here's the one other thing about Dulce.
	It was John and Bill Cooper, supposedly, who put together the first paperwork on Dulce that supposedly came from the security guard, this Thomas C guy.
	What's that?
	Branton.
	Okay, whatever.
	But they were the ones who put it together.
	And then it was weird because...
	Well, I'm just telling you that they did.
	I know.
	I've heard the stories.
	Then it said, okay, but here's the story you haven't heard.
	It was supposedly by O.H. Krill.
	And O.H. Krill was supposedly a being that was inside and they just put O.H. Krill on it.
	Now, this is where the beginning of the rift between Bill...
	And Lear started where John goes, where Bill started saying, well, I was in Navy intelligence and I saw this in the Navy intelligence files that this was the name of the alien.
	And John's like, we just made that up, man.
	It's just funny.
	It was supposedly like the planet they were from or something like that.
	And he's like, oh no, I saw that in the Navy documents.
	And John was like, okay.
	And this was kind of the beginning of the end of the, or should I say the rift between Cooper because Cooper then just started lying about stuff.
	The other thing that John got sucked into, unfortunately, is the stupid myth of the Kennedy assassination, where supposedly Chris, I think his name is, the driver supposedly turns around and he's the one that shoots Kennedy.
	And they claim to have that on film and video.
	And I had to go around and debunk that a lot because they had an eighth generation black and white A grainy video that came from a Japanese TV show where the sun glinting off the head of the man in the passenger seat looks for a split second like a gun before the man leans forward when the first shots are fired.
	But that's the whole thing.
	People went all around saying, oh, I've got this stuff with the driver, and the driver turns around and shoots him.
	If you see a decent figure eight of the Zapruder film, and I actually saw the originals, they sent it to Mort Saul, and he showed it on a Literally on a sheet that we've strung up on a motel wall.
	You see that the guy's hands never leave the wheel and it's not the driver that shoots him.
	But anyway, so Lear was behind so much.
	He was behind a lot of information about Dulce.
	He was behind Bob Lazar.
	It was John and Bill Cooper who were...
	Actually, Bill Cooper was at John's house when Lear came.
	I think it was May 18th of 89, I think.
	When Lazar had showed up at the house and George Knapp was there doing an interview and what he doesn't tell you and what's not in the book or whatever else is he'd just been beaten up by the redheaded sergeant or whatever it was, captain Dennis Mariana was the guy who literally had just taken Bob out into the desert and He said, you're now a target of opportunity.
	Run.
	And Bob's literally running for his life with this guy shooting at him.
	And then Bob falls down and he pulls up in the Jeep and he beats him up and puts the gun in his mouth.
	And says, Bob's mouth and says, you know, who do you think you're effing with, man?
	You know, you think this is some kind of game?
	We'll kill everyone you know and kill you last and make you watch.
	And this was his mindset when he went over and Cooper was pressing and pressing and pressing in the car going, look, I got your snap right here.
	You want to do this interview?
	We'll black you out.
	We'll do whatever.
	And...
	And this is when Bob said, okay, I'm ready to do this now.
	And they did the blacked out interview in the car.
	That was the whole story behind that, of the blacked out interview in the car, which then the next day, Mariana calls Lazar on the phone and says, I saw your little interview, Bob, because they didn't disguise his voice, and said, do you have any idea what we're going to do to you now?
	And that's when all of Bob's stuff started disappearing.
	His driver's license disappeared.
	Passport disappeared.
	He called his parents in Florida, said, you've got to go into my room and get my birth certificate and get my other...
	And his mother said, oh, yes, it's right.
	Ah!
	And like everything was gone out of his room.
	Somehow they like teleported everything out of his room.
	His entire room was completely cleared out.
	And this sort of began the whole story.
	But again, and let me tell you one other thing too, because this is another great John story.
	So Lazar began to feed John information.
	I'm sorry, I'm going too long here, but Lazar began to feed John information, but the excuse he was giving was that he was teaching his wife how to fly.
	So Bob would come over to John's house It was Trudy or Julie.
	I'm sorry, I'm blanking on his wife's name.
	I think it was Julie.
	It was Julie or Trudy.
	But he would come with her flight book so that John could sign the flight book.
	And the big thing is, once again, another story is that Bob never tells.
	Where Bob comes over, John signed a flight book, and he gives him a chance to talk.
	And Lazar says to John, I saw my first alien today.
	And John's like, what the what?
	And he says, I saw my first alien today.
	He said, well, what happened?
	And he said, we're out in the hangar.
	He said, we're working on the sport model.
	And it was him and a guy named Phil.
	And all they knew was the numbers on the chest.
	It was like 286 or something like that.
	And it's an interesting story because The way the hangars are connected, there's offices at the far end of the hangars.
	And so two guards come out of one of the offices of the hangar, and then between the guards coming out, there's a being that's about Four feet tall.
	It's got a black velour jumpsuit on.
	It's very spindly and thin.
	And he said the thing moved like a puppet.
	He said it looked like it was like a marionette or something like it was moving underwater.
	Now, Dennis Mariana is screaming at somebody in the office, you get this done, I'll put my foot up your ass, and all the stuff that he does.
	And everybody was in complete shock because they're seeing this creature.
	And Lazar described it as saying, he says, Every hair on your body just goes up like you've been electrocuted.
	He says your brain doesn't have a space in it to put this information in of what these creatures are.
	He says it was abjectly terrifying.
	And Mariana comes out, slams the door to the office, and he's coming along.
	And he looks at all the scientists who are just in shock.
	And he starts screaming, what are you effing looking at?
	Look down!
	Look down right now!
	Shut up!
	Get on the ground!
	Assume the position!
	And apparently there was like sirens that would go off where they had to actually lay on the ground and put their hands behind their head.
	Some people had to put like a bag on their head or something.
	And everybody drops to the ground and does this.
	And I guess this Phil guy just vapor locks.
	He's just like, because he's so terrified.
	And Mariana comes at him.
	And drops him.
	I mean, punches him in the stomach and then has him on the ground and is literally boot stomping this poor guy.
	And, you know, you keep your eyes down.
	You shut up.
	You don't pull your orders.
	And then guards came out and dragged him away.
	And Bob never saw him again.
	And this was...
	And the reason that Mariana beat him up was because Bob started taking John out to the valley on Wednesday nights.
	And once again, he was there with John when they were watching the ships fly over the hills on Wednesday.
	And they started getting chased by the Wackenhut guys, who were basically just like mall cops.
	I mean, they used to be guarded by DISCO, which is the Defense Intelligence Strategic Command Organization.
	And then they decided to go private because these guys, I guess, didn't serve enough.
	Or something.
	But it was like, you know, these guys are serving two to four years, and they wanted professional guys.
	So they pulled John over.
	Bob, knowing they're being chased, he grabs a.45 out of the glove box and literally rolls out of the car like Mannix, you know, and says, you know, I'll meet you at the stop sign.
	And he jumps out of the car while he's going at speed, and they pull him over.
	And they go, what are you doing out here?
	He goes, just out for a drive, sir.
	And he says, I don't have to answer any of your questions.
	Again, you guys are private security.
	You're not the sheriffs.
	You're not the cops, whatever.
	And John just kind of shined them on.
	And they said, well, you tell your buddy Lazar, he's in a lot of trouble.
	And we know he's out here with you.
	So this is what then led to Mariana beating up Bob, which then led to Bob talking about his experience.
	Oh, and by the way, and here's the last part of the story that's very interesting.
	Lazar gets his book signed.
	He tells the story to John about seeing the aliens.
	This is where the mind control and the Kool-Aid and all the weird stuff.
	He goes out to his house, which I think was on James Lovell Drive at that time.
	It was way out in the middle of nowhere.
	It was way out in a box canyon.
	It was the only house in the development.
	There's no one else around for miles.
	Nobody out there.
	His wife is gone.
	He goes in the house, he shuts the door, and he says, the minute the screen door slams, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, there's a knock on his door.
	And he opens the door, and these guys are flashing badges saying, you know, base security, you're at John Lear's house for three hours and 22 minutes.
	What are you talking about?
	And he's like, shut up.
	And Bob gets up on his hind legs and says, you guys can't control my life.
	You can't tell me who my friends are.
	F you, F you.
	I mean, they were talking literally like Carrie when she's had a little bit of wine.
	And...
	You effity, effity, effity, effity, effity.
	And they bust into the house.
	And he's still yelling at them, saying, you can't come in here, you sons.
	And he said, one of these guys reached out with his left hand and touched his heart.
	And that was it.
	And then he was gone.
	And he says he did not wake up.
	He woke up on the couch like three hours later.
	But the dreams that he was having, and this is from some of the psychoanalysis that was done at Bob Lazar, was of him falling down a pit and his hands being at the edge of the pit.
	And his arms stretching, stretching, stretching, stretching, stretching, with him looking up at the top of the hole with these two alien faces looking down the hole at him, trying to invade his mind, which is the story, again, that he told John.
	And this had a lot to do with the mind control.
	It also had to do with the fact that whenever he was looking at these documents, There would always be two guards or Marines or whatever.
	I don't know if they're Wackenhut or actual real military guys, but they would cock their machine guns and point them at Bob's head while he was actually reading these dossiers so that if they ever did lie detector tests on Bob, which were done, by the way, Bob's whole psychoreactive Nature on the lie detectors would basically just freak out,
	making him look like he was lying, because they would put him in such a tense situation about when he was reading the dossiers about the Dulcé Wars and the conflict at Dulcé and the zeta reticulans and element 115.
	And in my books, by the way, let me just push this out here.
	All of my books are back in print.
	So I've got the Sands of Time books one and two, Sands of Time, Eisner Protocol, and the long-awaited Sands of Time book four, Time Runner, which has already been an option for a major motion picture.
	But they're all out now.
	All you guys have to do is go to amazon.com.
	And it's been five-star rated by Amazon.
	So all the books are out.
	We're going to start shipping them up in the next week.
	Awesome.
	Well, I've read all your books.
	So this is the last one, right?
	Yeah, you've got the latest one.
	It's stamped 001 for Carrie Cassidy.
	I do?
	I said, I'm going to send it to you as soon as I get it.
	Oh, cool.
	I want to read it right away.
	Okay, thank you, Sean.
	That's awesome.
	What I want to do here is get our two guys over here.
	To weigh in on the story you just told.
	And I think that some of us were told different stories, and Rick Doty might know the real nitty-gritty.
	What do you want to say, Rick?
	Anything?
	Well, it's a fascinating story, Sean.
	I wasn't there when Lazar worked there, but I can verify that he did work there.
	He was only there 15, 16 days?
	Well, no, I think he was there 47 total.
	I think people have changed.
	He was only at the base for 15 days because I've seen all the records of it.
	Excuse me, records lie.
	That's what he got paid for, anyway.
	Yeah, whatever.
	Yeah, his paycheck.
	Well, anyways, the problem that when Bob first told the story, he spoke of S4, S4, S4. Anybody that actually worked out there knows that the complex was called S2. S-4 was a fourth level under S-2.
	So you have to go through the administrative control portal, which is S-2.
	It's above ground at Papoose Lake.
	Which you can find on Google now, by the way.
	Yeah, exactly.
	You can actually find the buildings and all the stuff Lazar was talking about after they called him a liar, or mostly Stanton Friedman called him a liar, but you can find it all on Google now.
	Well, there's a reason for that.
	Right now, in the last seven years, they built the tunnel from Groom Lake out to Papoo, so nobody has to drive out there anymore.
	You don't have to take the blue bus with all the windows blacked out.
	Yeah, you don't have to do that anymore.
	But when I first heard Bob's story, I knew a lot of people who still worked out there or could check on it.
	And yeah, he did work out there.
	Now, I don't know anything about his...
	John Lear told me the stories that he had heard or Bob told him about The alien that worked out there, or the advisor.
	The alien went by a number of names, the puppet master, J-Rod.
	Well, I was never fortunate enough to see any aliens out there, although I knew, not at S4. I never had a clearance to go down S-4.
	I could go to S-2, I could conduct investigations at S-2, but you had to have a special clearance to go down to S-4.
	That's where the reverse engineering occurred.
	John Lehrer told me a story connected to Dulce.
	When I met John later on after he flew me, I didn't meet him again for several years, and I saw him at a dinner.
	I was at a dinner event in Vegas, and John was there.
	I went over and introduced myself.
	He remembered me.
	We sat and talked for a little bit.
	Later on, he asked to talk to me.
	We went into a little Like a cloakroom.
	I call it a cloakroom.
	He sat down.
	I sat down on a bench and he told me a story about Dulce.
	He says, I know you know all about this and I just want to tell you about this cave and who built the cave and tunnel from Los Alamos to Dulce.
	Well, he's telling me something I didn't know.
	So I listened to him.
	And John spoke for probably, gosh, probably 45 to 50 minutes about it.
	And he told me the names of people that have worked there underground.
	He also told me the names of the two aliens that supposedly was in control of Dulcy, of the underground base at Dulcy.
	And so I said, you know, I thought it was fascinating.
	And this was, like I said, 93, 94 time frame.
	But shortly after that, I spoke to people who told me something different.
	When I saw John again in 97, and by this time I worked for Hal Puthoff at the Institute for Advanced Studies.
	I worked there for about 12 years.
	We were dealing with some projects involving this particular contractor who supposedly built the tunnel from Los Alamos to Dulce.
	When I went back and talked to John, I think it was in 97, he told me an entirely different story.
	I've never confronted him about it.
	I just listened to what he said the second time.
	John sometimes, I think, forgets the first story and adds to it.
	And I'm not going to call him a liar.
	I mean, he's an older...
	He went through a lot.
	He went through, I thought, three crashes.
	Maybe there were two.
	I think Jim would know.
	He had three crashes.
	And he was in the hospital for like seven months on one of them.
	He really banged that bad.
	So...
	I really respected him because he talked a lot about things that I know that occurred at Area 51.
	I was a counterintelligence officer there, and I knew things that were occurring there, highly classified projects that he knew about.
	I don't know how he knew.
	He claimed other people told him.
	Then, of course, the Bill Cooper thing comes in, and I could speak forever on that.
	But John always had a...
	He would talk about somebody like Bill Cooper in a positive way, but always end it in a negative way if he had it.
	I know, but that was John and Bill.
	That's not always the case.
	In some cases, he was extremely complimentary about some of his contacts.
	Oh, absolutely.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	I have stuff to say about John as well, but you guys do not appreciate it.
	What I say, but, and I do want to say, because Rick, I don't know if you know, but Sean has a secret witness that gave a lawyer the files that he based all his books on.
	So his books are actually based on a guy who basically claimed from early days, really, to run Area 51 and Dulcie.
	Well, he didn't run, I'm sorry, he didn't run Dulce.
	Well, he got involved in Dulce.
	He was part of the conflict in Dulce.
	Oh, Los Alamos.
	Okay, Los Alamos.
	Let me point out that John released all the first information about Dulce.
	This led to the thing where then a guy comes along and claims, oh my God, what was his name?
	He worked with Charles Berletts on the books about the Bermuda Triangle He's a terrible guy.
	Bill Moore.
	Bill Moore?
	Thank you very much.
	Bill Moore.
	Bill Moore the liar.
	Yeah.
	Bill Moore the liar.
	And Bill Moore claims that he basically outed himself and said, I work as an asset for counterintelligence and I'm a scumbag and what I've done And this is funny because John was kind of behind this as well, just to let you know how much he was behind or how much he influenced all of us to do the best that we did, where Moore claimed he just made up Delta out of whole cloth.
	He said the whole thing was a complete lie and that he made the whole thing up and that he fed Lear and Cooper the information and had them release it to the world just to show people how stupid UFO researchers could be.
	So taking up that gauntlet, that challenge, that Will Smith slap in the face, we went to Dulce.
	And it was myself and Paul Shepard and Dr.
	Fred Bell and mostly James Delitoso.
	James had been one of the people that was one of the pioneers of the Cray supercomputer.
	Matter of fact, Jim went on to Come up with the algorithms for water on screen, which made shows like The Abyss and Titanic possible.
	So he came up with a data tabling program so that we pounded sonics into the Mesa.
	This was December 18 and 19 of 89.
	And we pounded the Mesa with these sonics, floating the lake on the north and whatever else.
	Ran it through 75 hours of crazy supercomputer time out of the University of San Diego.
	And I think I'm still the only one that has any footage on this.
	But we proved, actually, that Dulce was there.
	It was right there on the screen.
	It actually has a nuclear pile of some kind at the center.
	Whatever it is, it's generating 440 Hertz, whatever military frequency it is, but you could also see that there was a jet tube at the bottom where something was coming and going and a jet tube at the top with a big dome, which then appeared to be spaces of about 15 to 20 feet, which were the various levels, along with the cave underneath.
	We also managed, thanks to Wendell Stevens, we managed to interview two engineers, and the engineers claimed that there was a big cave there already and that they hollowed the place out in 1955 To use as an atomic waste dump.
	And then the governor of the state said, no thanks, we've got enough atomic junk.
	Can't do it.
	And then supposedly, according to John, the bad aliens signed what they called the Sigma Treaty in, I think, 1964.
	And that's when they allowed them to take over the lower levels, everything below level four.
	One interesting thing, and I'll go check this.
	I just want to ask Richard a quick question.
	Quick question.
	Did any of the levels at Dulce actually have numbers on them, or were they actually color-coded?
	Well, what I know about Dulce contradicts a lot of this stuff.
	Weren't you there?
	There are witnesses who claim you were there.
	Hello, Paul Benowitz was on that case much before John, so it didn't come from John.
	Yeah, it came from, number one, it never came from John.
	John related what Paul Bennewitz told him.
	John had met Paul Bennewitz early, late 90s, late 70s, and Paul Bennewitz told John about Dulce.
	Now, the reason Paul Bennewitz knows about Dulce Paul Benowitz was a pilot.
	He flew around Dulce many times because he was told that there was a base there.
	He photographed a lot of things coming out of there, and we had the photographs, and I saw the photographs.
	Well, I didn't know anything about Dulce until I got a briefing, finally, that it was a, and the cover was it was a United States Army Special Forces base.
	It had three levels.
	It was used to train Special Operations Forces.
	That's what I was told.
	I know otherwise because I was there and I saw things happening that I knew wasn't conventional military.
	I had been in the Air Force before I joined the Civil Service.
	I spent four years in the United States Air Force.
	I was in special operations there.
	I was in different planes.
	I knew what an airplane was.
	But we were seen and photographed coming out of Dulce, on the west side of Dulce, out of Paco, a place called Paco.
	They weren't conventional aircrafts.
	When I went back and said, listen, you know, I just got briefed on this, and you're saying that this is a Special Forces.
	Well, we must have developed some really neat, unconventional aircrafts, because I have them here in my photographs, which, of course, are classified.
	And then I was told, well, you'll get another briefing later.
	Hold them up!
	Hold them up!
	So, I wish I still had him.
	Yeah, and I just want to say that Anthony Sanchez also went up onto Dulce, up to the mountain, and he was attacked, and like a really horrible attack with a virus or something that attacked his face, and I have A friend who did a healing on him, but he had to go to the hospital and everything was incredible.
	I have lots of stories of Dulcie, and I also have Stanton Friedman standing up on stage denying flatly that Dulcie existed.
	We already knew it existed, and I basically yelled at him while he was on stage.
	Good for you.
	You know, as I would do stuff.
	Let me add it real quickly here.
	You brought up Bill Moore's name.
	Bill Moore was one of my assets.
	He was a common intelligence asset.
	And I think that came out in books, but we recruited him to penetrate UFO groups to find out what they knew, and he reported back to us.
	But eventually he felt really bad, didn't he?
	It wasn't that why he came out with it.
	And no, he did.
	There was one time when he came out and apologized to the UFO community.
	Yeah, he did that.
	He did that a couple years later.
	He did.
	And he couldn't tell the whole story because he was actually involved in an espionage operation.
	He knew assets.
	He knew scientists inside the Soviet Union back in those days.
	And we recruited him to make contact with these people.
	So it wasn't all UFO related.
	It had an actual espionage flavor to it.
	And Bill did a really, really good job for U.S. intelligence getting information.
	Later on, Bill did apologize.
	He probably exaggerated a lot of things he said in the conference in 89, but he's out of the subject now.
	Most people can't even find him.
	You don't even know where he's at.
	So, Richard, you were using him as an asset to infiltrate our groups so that you could, in fact, lie and smear everybody who did this kind of research.
	That's your job, and yet we're on a panel with you now.
	No, no, no.
	You're getting it wrong.
	Listen, listen.
	Intelligence, liar, smear guy?
	That wasn't his only role.
	Go ahead.
	He's got so many other roles that don't throw us in prison.
	The United States Intelligence Service has a right to defend a country.
	And everything I did was sanctioned by the government.
	I didn't go out there and do it as a maverick.
	And that makes it right.
	I'm told to do something, okay?
	Yeah, it is, because everybody has a job.
	Everybody has a job to protect the country.
	Counterintelligence is part of that.
	And I had a job to do.
	I did my job.
	But Bill Moore, he volunteered to provide information to us about UFO groups.
	Now we never once, I never once, smeared anybody.
	I never ever smeared anybody within the UFO community.
	That would have been an idiotic on my part.
	Except for Paul Venovic.
	Well, Bob Benowitz, we didn't have to because Bob Benowitz already believed in UFOs.
	He was a member of the...
	And he also messed with Linda Moulton Howe, by the way.
	Well, all we did with Linda was we fed her information and she ran with it.
	It was a little more than that.
	Having been the only person on the panel who met Paul Benowitz, who interviewed Paul Benowitz, who heard the story from Paul Benowitz, by the time I got to him again in December of January of 89-90, Paul was, I mean, he was, a lot of his mind was gone,
	primarily because of What Bill Moore had done to him, not just Bill Moore, but whoever this being was, he was communicating over the computer, who kept giving him stuff, giving him stuff, giving him stuff, right up until you come to the big treasure at the end, and then suddenly all communications would get cut off.
	But it was pretty freaky being at Paul's house because, like, you know, they're following you and, you know, they have invisible saucers and they're listening to everything we say.
	Well, as it happens, everything he said is actually what we're experiencing now.
	This is true.
	He did say something about March 3rd.
	He gave a particular date of things that were going to go down.
	And it was interesting.
	The only thing that happened on that day, strangely enough, was they released the movie Fire in the Sky about the Travis Walton story, which was directed by Adam Nimoy.
	And it was funny because I was actually at the premiere of that, a screening they had at Paramount, and Leonard Nimoy yelled at his son, saying, we had an opportunity to do something to tell the real story, to show that alien beings could care about us, and you turned this into a stupid horror movie.
	So Leonard Nimoy was very upset about it.
	Because his son directed it, and he was yelling at his kid, Adam, about what was going on.
	Anyway, sorry.
	Well, I don't know.
	There might have been some benefits of that movie, I have to say.
	Just want to say, okay, wait, because this is about John Lear, and I'm going to get Jim Goodall a chance to talk a little bit.
	He also flew for the CIA. And he did a lot of stuff for them.
	He did some very wild stuff.
	This is a man, John Lear was a man, I don't know if he even knew fear.
	He basically, you know, was a rebel at heart and he did whatever the F he wanted to under many dangerous circumstances.
	So, okay, you were a good friend of his, Jim Goodall.
	Can you talk about anything about that?
	Yeah, most of the things I have about John are funny, necessarily related to what the crew here has been talking about.
	I was at the fence line of Tonopah Test Range with John.
	This is June of 96, 11 o'clock at night.
	We both have our night vision goggles on.
	They're Gen 1s.
	But we saw an armored personnel carrier coming up from the south, one from the west, one from the east.
	But the lights were off.
	And I stand up and yell real loud, hey, we're good guys.
	We're taxpayers.
	All of a sudden, we had floodlights on us and three little red dots in my chest.
	And John had three little red dots in his chest.
	And there was another vehicle coming down the public land side, the BLM side of the fence line.
	And this guy in Desert Utilities came out, had his hand on his 9mm and said, you're in a restricted area, I'm already going to leave.
	And both John and I both, you know, piped up and said, this is public lands, we're not going anywhere.
	Yeah, you are.
	I'm going to see, you know, this is a restricted area.
	So I pull out the map, the official government aeronautical map that gives the longitude and latitude.
	And he said, it's public lands, we're not going anywhere.
	As a matter of fact, I can be here for 15 consecutive days without your permission.
	And, you know, John's, you know, just giving a little quick, you know, quick here and there.
	And so I want to see some ID. And I said, well, who are you?
	He said, well, I'm Captain so-and-so with ASI. I said, you're a rent-a-cop.
	You don't have jurisdiction on this side of the fence.
	And his jaw is just getting tight.
	You know, John's just sitting back there, not saying much, just everybody looking over and sort of grinning.
	But he has the dots on his chest as well.
	The guy started getting pretty riled up.
	And I said, well, I'll tell you what, you show me yours, I'll show you mine.
	And he hands me his ASI badge, and it stood for Advanced Security, Inc.
	And I said, sir, you're a rent-a-cop, and this is not a valid form of ID. I need something issued by the state or federal government.
	And you can just see the veins popping out.
	I'll tell you what, you show me yours, I'll show you mine.
	So he gives me his Nevada driver's license.
	I give him mine.
	I took Lear's, I handed it to him.
	Lear's just sitting back there with this John Lear grin that he always had.
	And you could just know that he wants to say something smart, smart-ass.
	So I hands it to the guy on the south side of the fence, and he goes over to probably the supervisor's armored personnel carrier, turns the light on, and I hear him say, oh, shit, it's Goodall and Lair.
	All of a sudden, the lights went off, the red dots went away, and they dispersed.
	I mean, they knew that they weren't going to intimidate John Lair or Jim Goodall to leave the area.
	Another one of the funnies in the same area, I went up the top of Whitesides for the first time.
	It had to be early 89.
	And like I said, John's feet were just bad that he could hardly walk.
	So I'm carrying three gallons of Four gallons of water.
	Because one thing you need in the desert more than anything is water.
	And we're going to spend the night up on top of Whitesides.
	And at the very, very top, it was a flat area and it sort of notched.
	And that's where we camped out overnight.
	Nothing happened that night.
	Next morning we're up and we're trying to get something before the sun rises.
	And...
	I'm real hard of hearing.
	I only hear out of one ear and not very good on that one either.
	We're sitting on top.
	It's about 6.30 in the morning, 7.30 in the morning.
	Sun's just coming up.
	There's no distortion of the heat yet overlooking Area 51.
	And John says, oh, I hear a pavehawk.
	And sure, shooting over the top of White Sides, about five feet over the top of the mountain, came this pavehawk helicopter and went down the canyon.
	And John's pickup truck was down as far as we could go in this one canyon leading up to the top of White Sides.
	And he had his Area 51 visitors pass in the window.
	Pretty soon, they have the Lincoln County Sheriff is out there.
	A couple of Wackenhat people from Area 51 Air Force people were there, and they're pointing up to the top of the mountain.
	And John says, they probably got a glint or something off either sunglasses or binoculars or whatever, because there's no way they could have known we were up there.
	So we're up there for a bit, and then the helicopter takes off, because they land on what's called the campsite, which is just off the road, and it's just up a little knoll, and that's where people used to camp.
	And the Pave Hawk comes right up the canyon, coming right towards us.
	There's a guy hanging out of the door with a Nikon with a huge, huge lens on it, probably a 600 millimeter.
	And we're sitting there as it's coming up, and we're on top of the mountain, and we're going like this, like we're at the road parade.
	And John was just laughing.
	He just had a...
	It was who he was.
	He was just a character.
	And another time when John Andrews, who was actually introduced me to John Lear, and John Lear is responsible for where I'm at today.
	Everybody that was in his circle, I sort of was in my circle as well.
	And this is, you know, over the last 50 years.
	And I just became, he was like a magnet.
	And he had such a He's very caring.
	He was funny.
	And he could come across it being just pissed beyond belief at you.
	I mean, he's swearing at you, pushing around and stuff like that.
	And then you look at his eyes and all of a sudden you see this twinkle and you know that he's got you and he's been pulling your leg.
	And that was so much of the fun part of John that I really loved.
	We spent most of our time out in the desert.
	I know I, Merrilee, and he had a friend named Jim.
	I can't remember Jim's last name.
	But we went out to the Cutthroat Mine with John and saved him.
	When he turned 60 years old in 2002, he was told that he couldn't fly anymore.
	And that would be like cutting part of his heart out and feeding it to the rats.
	I mean, he was so down, so depressed, so unhappy.
	And Mary Lee called me in Minnesota.
	I was living in Minnesota at the time.
	And he said, are you going to be out here anytime soon?
	And I said, yeah, I'm going to be out here next week.
	He said, we have to save John.
	I said, why is that?
	And he said, the thought of not ever flying again is destroying him.
	And he was drinking himself to death, literally.
	What are we going to do?
	We're going to take him up.
	He's at the cutthroat mine right now.
	We're going to go up there and see him.
	His friend Jim is going to stay with him, and we're going to find where he has all his bottles hidden.
	We probably found about 20 or 30 bottles of booze, and we just emptied him out.
	Marilee said, we're going to keep him there for a month.
	I think he made it three weeks.
	He snapped out of me.
	He had the DTs.
	I thought my friend was going to die.
	And thank God that he didn't.
	Merrilee was strong enough at the time to save him.
	And when I saw him in 2015, I never thought he would make it this far.
	And I would call him up, and he would utter a few words and want to go to sleep.
	He was sleeping for three, four, five days in a row.
	They had him heavily medicated.
	His feet, I don't know if you can see my hand here, but this is his foot.
	This is a rudder pedal of an airplane.
	When he was doing, the first one he crashed, I think it was in Switzerland, and he's doing some acrobatics, and he's coming in a loop.
	And he impacted the ground and his toes met his heels, literally folded his feet.
	And that's where most of the pain came from.
	And there's multiple times he talked about he wanted to cut his feet off.
	And I think his kids, you know, try to talk him out of it.
	But the pain was unbelievable.
	I flew back from Vegas to Minneapolis in the jump seat of when he was flying an L-1011 charter.
	He said, well, you want to go back to Minneapolis?
	I can get you there for free.
	I said, OK. So I was in the jump seat.
	And he said, just taxiing the airplane around, he said his feet hurt so bad that he almost couldn't deal with the pain.
	And the amount of pain he was under, I think he would have killed a normal person.
	But John is a type of personality that he wasn't going to give up.
	Right.
	I mean, I can't remember if it was his father.
	I know his mother had dealings with MJ-12, but I think it might have been his father was a member.
	So he was always very close to certain individuals that were very close to what was happening.
	Yeah, I think one of the heartbreaks in John's life is Moya and his dad wanted him to take her and run Learfan, because they were building the prototypes there at Stead Field there in Reno.
	And John told his dad and told his mother, he said, I'm not going to do it.
	I said, this thing has to be certified by the FAA. And you're doing three things that have never happened on an aircraft that's going to be certified for public consumption.
	And certified by the FAA, you're using a composite airplane fuselage with a composite wing.
	No one had done it yet.
	You know, the 787 was still 40 years, 50 years.
	It was a twin engine, but it was a single prop.
	That was kind of something different.
	There had been military aircraft that was dual engine, with a single propel, not commercial or private aircraft.
	And it was a pusher.
	And he said everything about it.
	He said, you're going to spend the rest of your life, and he's referring to his dad, just trying to get the Learfan certified so he can sell it.
	And he said, I'm not going to have anything to do with it.
	And John told me just a couple of years ago, he said, one of the reasons he was written out of his father's will is It's because his mother insisted upon it.
	His mother said John would not come to his father's rescue, so John should not benefit from his father's fruits.
	He tells that story in a lot more detail in one of my interviews.
	He told a lot of everything we're talking about in my interviews, I have to say.
	Okay, so basically, I want to say, I don't know, Jim V, do you have anything to add here?
	Because I don't know if you're even still there, but I see you're kind of there.
	And no?
	Okay, you're not there.
	All right.
	I apologize for misspeaking earlier about, of course, Jim is talking about Marilee, who is John's wife.
	I'm sorry I misspoke earlier about her name being Sherry, so I know she's gone, but sorry about that.
	Yeah.
	Not a problem.
	He was someone that...
	I believe that people come in and out of your life because they're supposed to.
	And for some reason, I was blessed to have John Olson Lear come into my life.
	And one of the funny things John said after his dad had passed away and the will was read, he said, all my children, everything is separated equally except for John Olson Lear.
	He gets nothing.
	So he and Marilee sent out The following Christmas, 1,400 or 1,500 Christmas cards.
	And he said, I want to wish everybody a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year, except John Olson Lear.
	That was an incredible story, his family background that did seem to motivate a lot of the things he did in his life.
	I just want to give, Jim V, as we're calling you, we can now see you on camera.
	You want to say something about, anything about Lear?
	No, I have friends that are pilots who have flown intelligence, and they told me that he was considered the top pilot in the world, the most certified pilot, and they all looked up to him.
	And they thought he was an aviation hero.
	He was.
	He was.
	Absolutely.
	And when he got the, when he, like, that Switzerland accident, it's because he did some daredevil thing that was, like, supposedly impossible to do.
	He described that in detail as well in one of my interviews.
	So, I mean, he was amazing in that way.
	And he also lived the life of, like, I don't know, like, when he was younger, he really, he was like a Hollywood, I don't know, you know, World traveler.
	Well, we ran with all the Hollywood guys because of his dad, because of William Lear, who was in a bunch of movies and did all kinds of things for movies and whatever else.
	Basically a celebrity.
	Yeah.
	He was.
	I mean, he was bigger than life.
	You hear about John Lear, you hear about some of the things that he's done, places he's been.
	And never a dull moment with him.
	No.
	I said, when he was flying for continental air service in Cambodia and Laos and Vietnam, he said, you know, there's times he was landing on mountaintops that were cut off 700 feet, maybe deep, you know, four or five canopy jungle on either side, if he goes over, he's gone.
	And he says he's here.
	He has one door off the right-hand side of the aircraft.
	It's a Swiss short takeoff and landing.
	I know the name, but for whatever reason, it's not coming out right now.
	And...
	Yeah.
	And he said there's times he's coming and he's being shot with small-armed fire and he's not going to land or the crosswind over the mountaintop as such that there's no way he's going to stop.
	And he had just fly, you know, almost with his wheels touching the ground, get his foot, push the load out.
	And so it crashes on the runway.
	said you weren't supposed to carry a gun, but he had his 45, it was 1911.
	And he'd be shot at and he'd bank over and he'd be through the open door going bam bam bam bam through the whole magazine and throw another one and shoot some more.
	And he was, he was.
	Basically, it's kind of weird that he died after so much pain and everything, and kind of like a very horrible ending.
	But he tested and faced death so many times, and just blew it off.
	I could tell a story.
	One of John's friends, kind of a secretive friend, was Gene, Gene Lakes, who was a, and Kerry knows him.
	He was a, actually worked out of Area 51, he was chief of security out there at one point.
	But Gene was, flew with him.
	In Laos, flew out of Long Chin with him.
	And Gene has many, many, many stories to tell, particularly one time when they had to resupply a Lima site way up in the mountain, northern Laos.
	And I don't remember what year it was, but during that time period, the Path to Laos owned the northern Laos.
	But we did have a site up there where we had friendly forces and U.S. Green Berets up there.
	And John had to fly a C-7 Caribou Gene was with him and as they flew up there, the back section of the C-7, they landed, they serviced the site with supplies, they took back off, and when they got back to Long Chin, they didn't have a tail section of that C-7.
	And Gene said there wouldn't be a pilot in the world that could have landed this.
	Now, this was in the early 70s, but John Lear, and he did it.
	Yeah, I think there were many such incidents in his life.
	Just a real daredevil, like, you know, like a hero kind of thing.
	And he did it on behalf of our government, too.
	An incredible patriot.
	During Vietnam, one of his jobs were to fly O2 Skymasters from the US to Vietnam when they were taken off out of Hamilton Air Force Base there in San Rafael.
	He said they had fuel tanks.
	They'd take out the right seat.
	They put a fuel tank in there.
	A lot of the radios, a lot of the militaries that they didn't need, they were shipping to Vietnam, but they needed someone to fly it.
	And he said on one of the trips, I think he made five trips, He got lost in bad weather or whatever.
	And when he finally saw the Hawaiian Islands, he only had not more than an hour worth of fuel left.
	And he would have ditched in the ocean, and that would have been the end of John Lear.
	And that's how we lived on the edge.
	I know when John Andrews died, and Andrews was the one who introduced me to John Lear, he asked me and said, when I die, could you and Lear take my ashes and somehow deposit them over Area 51?
	Both Lear and I said, absolutely.
	So John's funeral was on a Wednesday, his memorial service, and Darlene gave me about half his ashes.
	And John and I head back to Vegas.
	Next day, we were in McCarran.
	We got a Jet Ranger.
	He was qualified to fly it, but he felt that we're going to have their chief pilot, who's a friend of his, fly.
	And it was windy, about a 30, 35-mile-an-hour wind coming down from the north.
	And John's up front.
	I'm in the back.
	I have the ashes.
	And as we head towards Apex, they have that real sharp mountain, you know, that ridge line up there.
	We went over there and I thought we almost felt like we're going to be inverted and we're being buffeted all over the place.
	And we're probably...
	Not that far from Ash Springs, but closer to the Nevada test site.
	And John says, I got to pee.
	I got to pee.
	And the pilot says, me too, me too.
	So we landed out in the middle of nowhere.
	We all got out and watered the cactus back in.
	And as we took off, we're just coming over Hancock Summit.
	And they knew we were coming.
	They had to.
	They were coming over Hancock Summit, a Twin Beach, I think, Beach 1900?
	Is that right?
	Yeah.
	It took off from Area 51.
	And John gets on the horn, and he knows the frequency of the monitor, and he said, Dreamland, Dreamland.
	This is John Lear and Jim Goodall announcing that John Andrews is on final approach to runway one far right.
	And by this time, we're on the north fence line of Area 51.
	And you can see the fence line.
	You can see the tire tracks.
	So we knew we weren't going to violate the airspace.
	And with that, I opened up the sliding window on the jet ranger and turned his ashes over.
	And Lyric sort of said, maybe that's the way I should go.
	So I know Allie said that John wanted to be cremated.
	So maybe someone Who have the ability to do it, they need to deposit John's ashes over Groom Dry Lake.
	I think that would be appropriate.
	I don't know how we can...
	Someone who's possibly listening or someone even on this panel may know the best way to do it.
	But if anybody needs to be I'm sure there's a pilot out there that would be interested in volunteering.
	Well, in a strong wind, I could take him up to the top of Whitesides Mountain and You know, where I first took him on his birthday in 1991, All right.
	Well, we've got to volunteer on the land.
	I just wanted to say quickly that maybe I can get a hold of Tatum and see if he can get close enough to it to dump him out there next time he's in the States.
	Dump him over the fence, maybe.
	Yeah, dump him over the fence.
	There's a Vegas pilot that I met at one of his birthday parties.
	Oh, cool.
	That, you know, is like, I guess, a really good pilot.
	And John respected him.
	So if he's listening tonight or if someone gets a hold of him, he lives in Vegas, just saying.
	One last thing, because I do have to go, Kerry, but I just want to say, again, John was he was an amazing guy.
	People do not realize how much that he's expanded the field of everything that we're talking about.
	He was a gentleman.
	He was a he was a hero.
	And he'll be missed as a great man.
	And a dear friend.
	A dear friend to everybody that he knew.
	A person who was always ready to expand knowledge, always ready to risk not only his life, but his reputation.
	To talk about this, you have no idea, by the way, coming from the family that he did.
	And when you consider that, you know, all of the things he talked about, you know, the crazy stuff that we all talk about, he really put his life and his reputation on the line for people to say, oh, that's it.
	Crazy John Lear talking about his UFOs and a lot of their stuff.
	He helped all of us.
	He encouraged all of us.
	It's kind of interesting that a lot of these people die in threes.
	First, you have Jordan Maxwell.
	Next you have, obviously, John Lear.
	I guess, I don't know, us or anybody on this panel is next.
	I gotta go.
	Mark McCandlish was murdered a year ago, I think it was.
	And also, George Green died over a year ago.
	So a lot of Camelot witnesses, our top witnesses, have been dying.
	Pete Peterson died, you know.
	I may be forgetting somebody right now, but yeah.
	And in fact, right now we're trying to get in touch with David Adair, if anyone knows how to reach him, because I've been trying to get a hold of him.
	He's not responding.
	Carrie, I'll call him tomorrow.
	All right.
	Thank you.
	I'll have his phone number as well.
	God bless you guys.
	We'll see you guys soon.
	Bye, Sean.
	I just want to say...
	All right.
	Well, we actually can round this...
	I'm going to meet you, John.
	John Stewart says hello, by the way, as do a number of people.
	And one last...
	Like I said, Amazon.com.
	All the books are up, finally, on Amazon.
	And it looks like April 19th.
	I'm going to probably go back on Revolution Radio and actually start...
	Start doing a nightly radio show probably from 10 to midnight.
	So there you go.
	Those are all my announcements and all that.
	Excellent.
	Jim, great to see you again.
	If you want to track me down, it's Jim Goodall at Facebook.
	That's the only way.
	I mean, or I'd give you my email, but I don't want the whole world to know what it is.
	Anybody here can have it.
	I've got it.
	Thank you.
	Mike Stratt is going to come on next week and talk about John as well.
	Thank you.
	Thank you very much, Sean.
	Thank you, Lorian.
	Thanks, Lorian.
	Good seeing you again.
	Good night, you guys.
	Good night.
	Thank you very much, Lorian.
	Thank you.
	Thank you, Rick.
	Thank you, Jim.
	Thank you, everybody.
	Thank you, both Jims.
	Yeah.
	Thanks a lot.
	And Rick, any starting words?
	Carrie, I just wanted to say one last thing.
	Allie and I are on a, we've been talking to each other and there's something coming up and I'll let everybody on the panel know about it soon, okay?
	Oh, great.
	Well, you know, our condolences to Allie.
	A lot of love.
	She's a wonderful woman.
	Love Allie.
	Yeah, she's fantastic.
	His daughters are so fabulous.
	Yeah.
	So, anyhow, I'll keep all of us that are on the panel posted what's going on and George Knapp and a bunch of other people, okay?
	Yeah.
	Sounds good.
	Thanks, Lauren.
	Good to see you.
	Bye, guys.
	Take care.
	Thanks for coming.
	Okay, you guys take care and this will be online.
	I have to, you know, I'll basically put my tags on it and then it'll upload so it'll be available for everyone.
	Thank you for your tribute to John.
	Thank you, Kerry.
	Thank you, Jim.
	Kerry, and it was nice meeting you for the first time, Kerry.
	I was having lunch with Michael Shrad.
	He called me up yesterday, or a couple of days ago.
	He said, I'm going to be in Phoenix.
	I'm going to do a concert.
	I said, okay.
	So I drove up, had lunch with him, and then drove back down.
	Michael Shrad is a wonderful aerospace historian for the people that are listening.
	Yeah, he's almost like my kid.
	I mean, I'm like his dad to him.
	He's just, and I'm the one who's been pushing him to do his YouTube channels.
	He finally did it.
	And I've been pushing him.
	Well, that's good because I've been pushing him too.
	So, he's been getting it for a long time.
	And I told him he had to do his first book and he has enough information to do a hundred books.
	Yeah, he really does.
	He's an incredible researcher.
	That's another point that we do want to talk to somebody about is making sure that John's, you know, all his incredible research and all his incredible memorabilia, you know, his library is so beautiful.
	And Camelot took a lot of pictures.
	We took a lot of pictures when we were there and stuff.
	I'm proud to say I have 28 books published.
	He has them all.
	I gave him my 75 years of the Lockheed Skunk Works when I saw him in October this last year.
	And he was so weak.
	He was at his desk and reached over to shake his hand and he couldn't reach me.
	I mean, my heart, I just...
	I mean, I just felt so bad for this incredible person.
	He was a man of faith, though.
	He did have, I think it was Lou Baldwin, I'm not sure if I'm saying the name right, that is an author that inspired John in terms of spirituality and things like that.
	He had a good, solid grounding in that.
	Yeah.
	All right, listen.
	Take care, everyone.
	Thanks again for being here.
	Thanks for having me on.
	Thanks, Kerry.
	Bye, guys.
	Bye.
	See you later, Lauren.

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