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March 9, 2021 - Project Camelot
01:09:11
STEPHAN SCHWARTZ: REMOTE VIEWER, SCIENTIST, AUTHOR, FUTURIST INTERVIEWED BY KERRY
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Time Text
Thank you.
Thank you.
And he's also worked for the government in various capacities over the years.
And his actual bio is really too long for me to go into in detail.
He's also considered a futurist.
So I'm very happy to have him here today.
and I have posted his entire bio on my website.
So you can go there and refer to all the different aspects of things that he's won awards for, et cetera, et cetera.
So, Stephan, it's great to have you here today.
I've interviewed other remote viewers, and so it will be interesting to talk with you about your approach to remote viewing.
And I understand that you go way back with remote viewing.
I created remote viewing.
Sorry?
I created remote viewing along with two other guys.
All right.
Well, you know, Ingo Swann also thinks he created it.
Oh, no.
Ingo was definitely part of the original group.
The original people, there is so much nonsense about remote viewing out there.
Remote viewing, I started in 1968.
Russ Targ and Hal Puthoff started, I think, in 1972.
And they got Ingo involved.
He created the word remote viewing.
I used to call it distant viewing, both terms of which are completely wrong.
It's just a measure of our level of understanding back in those years because there's nothing to do with remote and there's nothing to do with viewing.
But that's...
Anyway, Ingo coined the term, but...
And then along came Ed May.
So those are the people that created remote viewing.
So, okay, do you want to talk about your version of remote viewing and how you feel you created it?
You are really quite something.
I don't think I created it.
I don't think I created it, Karen.
I did create it.
As I said, myself, Ingo Swann, Pat Price, Hal Padoff, Russ Darg, and a little later, Ed May, those are the people that created Remote Viewing.
Actually, however...
The oldest remote viewing that we have record of is in the 46th chapter of Herodotus' Histories of the World, recounting a case in the 5th century BCE. So people have been doing what you really ought to call non-local perception for thousands of years.
Yes, I quite agree.
And in fact, I did hear an interview in which you talked about this, and I was impressed with the fact that you acknowledged that it existed before you so-called created it.
No.
Remote viewing is a protocol, a very particular way of accessing non-local consciousness.
People have been accessing non-local consciousness as long as there have been people.
I'm sure the Neanderthal Non-local consciousness.
It is an essential part of being a living being.
Just so you know, I've studied remote viewing myself and have done it successfully, so I do understand that.
Okay.
It is a way of doing it.
There is no one way of doing it.
There is an immense amount of nonsense about remote viewing, as there is so much disinformation about so many other subjects.
That are controversial.
But everybody in science pretty much agrees with how you do it and what it is you're doing.
Okay, everybody in science.
Science is a rather wide discipline, wouldn't you say?
Well, actually, the science of consciousness research, I would say, is probably limited to a community of people of about maybe...
Maybe 200 people in the world.
Maybe.
Maybe.
Maybe 150 people.
I don't know.
It's very small.
The people who actually know something about non-local consciousness, which is what we're talking about.
Okay, well, I think we just established that even the Neanderthals knew about non-local consciousness so that it's quite possible that hundreds of zillions of people know about non-local consciousness.
Non-local consciousness.
So you can't say that all those other people aren't studying non-local consciousness simply by being alive?
They may be studying non-local consciousness, but that doesn't mean they're studying remote viewing.
Non-local consciousness is an aspect of the totality of who you are.
Remote viewing is a protocol, a technique, For getting objectively verifiable information from non-local consciousness sources.
So, of course, the oracles of Delphi were doing non-local perception.
Yes, as do psychics everywhere.
Yeah, of course.
Well, I don't actually use the word psychic, but in any case...
Intuitive, telepaths, etc.
Those are all old-fashioned words.
Yeah, well, whatever you'd like to call them, you know, SciTech.
How about that?
Richard Alan Miller uses that term.
No, nobody uses that that I know.
Okay, do you know who Richard Alan Miller is?
I think I've heard the name, yeah.
He's a physicist, a doctor.
But you probably wouldn't agree with his philosophies.
I don't know.
I don't know his philosophies.
I've interviewed him many times, so if you're interested at all, you can certainly watch my interviews with him.
But at any rate, he calls it SciTech, and he writes books about it.
So, yes, there are many people out there studying these kinds of things, but you specifically have a certain protocol that you created calling it remote viewing, correct?
No.
I specifically designed a protocol which I call distant viewing, which is essentially...
No, in fact, let me get very precise about this.
I started, the first experimental work that I did was in 1968.
And I got the idea by, because I sat for five years and read all the Edgar Cayce readings.
And I read everything ever published on the subject of parapsychology.
Took me five years.
And in 1968, after those years, I began doing experiments.
And the technique that I, I developed a technique because the Cayce readings had taught me that all the senses reported, and therefore you could get all kinds of sensory information,
but that analytical information - names, dates, places, but that analytical information - names, dates, places, things like that - the things that required analysis were much harder for most people to get.
A few people could do it, but most people couldn't.
Over the years, I've tested about 23,000 people.
Maybe a little more, actually, but in any case, 23,000 will do.
I've published dozens of papers on this subject and written many books.
In 1977, I, having read their paper that they published in Nature, I met Hal and Ingo and Russell Gard.
Okay, and the person that you say you created remote viewing with or distant viewing, however you'd like to refer to it, was another individual, his last name is May.
Is that correct?
No, that isn't what I said.
What I said was That I began doing research in 1968.
And in 1977, when I moved to Los Angeles, I met Ingo Swann.
And through him, I met Russell Targ and Hal Puthoff, who were up at SRI and who were the only people at the time that were pursuing a systematic attempt to Develop a protocol for getting objectively verifiable information from non-local information sources.
And we had arrived at pretty much the same conclusions.
Not entirely, but pretty much.
And so at that time, then Princeton came along.
So there were basically three laboratories that were doing this kind of research.
There was There were a few other people, but in terms of laboratories, teams of people, there was Mobius, which was my lab, there was SRI, which was the government lab, and there was Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research Group, which was run by Bob John and Roger Nelson and Brenda Dunn.
Okay, so we've established that you say that you created a form of remote viewing, correct?
You really are quite something.
No, I don't claim or...
Well, you did in the early part of the interview.
No, what I said was...
You were the creator of remote viewing.
Yes, remote viewing was created.
Remote viewing.
Not non-local perception.
Remote viewing was created by a small group of people.
And you were one of them.
Is that correct?
And I was one of them.
That is correct.
Okay, we're in agreement.
Okay, excellent.
So I was wondering if you could talk about the protocols that you use and created back in those days.
Well, the key to the whole business is the ability to attain and sustain intention-focused awareness.
That's why they teach Meditation in martial art dojos and Tibetan monasteries and every religion.
Because the ability to attain and sustain intention-focused awareness is what allows you to open your consciousness to non-local perception.
Okay.
and did you have protocols for people to follow?
Yes.
Yes.
Most of the protocol part of it was in making it triple blind, at least double blind, but in my case, and most people, not all, but many, to make it triple blind.
That is, at the time that the person was doing whatever it was you were asking them to do, Nobody knew the answer.
And in fact, in a properly conducted experiment, you don't even select the target or the target set until after the information has been collected.
So typically, a typical experiment would be, Terry, I'm going to show you a picture in an hour.
Could you please go forward in time and describe that for me?
Can you make a drawing of...
There's a central shape in this target.
Whatever it is.
I don't know.
So you can't get it from me because it doesn't exist yet.
At least it hasn't been designated.
It may exist as a place or as an object, but it has not been selected as the target yet.
So could you please describe it?
Could you write down any colors stand out?
Do you smell anything?
Is there a sound you associate with this?
Could you make me another little drawing about the shape?
There's something I should be asking you but that I haven't thought to ask that will let you know that you have described the target correctly.
Can you tell me what that is?
That's a typical session.
Then you would record your data.
And afterwards, I would go to a random number generator and out of that random number generator, I would ask it to select, for instance, five categories of targets.
And then I would ask it to select within those five categories, each of which has, let's say, ten targets, five targets.
So I now have five targets that come out of the categories, and I would show those to a judge or several judges, and I would show them the five pictures.
And I would say, now pick the one that you think is the target.
And they would pick the one that is the target, and then we'd ask a random number generator to pick which one of those targets was, in fact, the target.
Okay.
So now, because I've talked to other remote viewers, I'm wondering whether or not you have or would like to voice an opinion about the procedures and protocols they use.
For example, are you familiar with Courtney Brown and his team?
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
And have you interacted with them?
We've met.
I mean, I know who he is.
We've talked.
Okay.
Have you talked to any of his viewers?
He has ones that he uses more than once?
I don't know whether I've talked to his particular viewer.
I've talked to hundreds of people who've done remote viewing.
Right.
I don't really care about technique.
It doesn't make any difference.
There is no technique.
Now what...
There is the ability to attain and sustain intention-focused awareness.
How you do that is entirely up to you.
Okay, great.
And what about someone like Ed Dames?
I know who Ed Dames is.
I've met Ed Dames.
Okay.
And let's see.
All these people you're mentioning, they are not part of the scientific community.
Okay.
Well, how about McMoneagle?
Joe McMoneagle?
Joe McMoneagle is an excellent viewer.
I've worked with him.
He has participated with the SRI people for many years.
He is an excellent viewer.
Okay.
And you yourself, I assume, are a viewer as well?
I have certainly done many remote viewings, yes.
Okay, and have you done some for the government?
No.
All right, have you only done it?
I don't do classified.
I would not do classified.
I turned down over, well, about a million six a year, this was back in 1980, for five years, guaranteed, because I would not do classified research.
I felt that anything...
We knew about consciousness should be made available to everyone.
There should be nothing classified.
Okay, so in working for the government, you didn't use your skills, are you saying?
I was the special assistant to the chief of naval operations, among other things.
And no, I didn't have anything to do with remote viewing when I was doing that.
Okay.
So when did you become a sort of, what year was it again that you were involved in the beginnings of working in remote viewing yourself as a remote viewer as well?
Well, I don't, I'm not principally a remote viewer.
I'm a research scientist.
I began because after reading the Casey material and reading that he kept saying, well, other people could do things like this.
So I went out into my back garden.
I lived then in Virginia Beach.
And I went down to a ship Chandler and I bought a drum of yellow rope.
And I laid out a grid of 12, originally of 12 squares.
And I made a little mimeograph.
That's how many years ago it is, if you know what a mimeograph machine is.
I made a mimeograph chart Of those 12 squares, and I sent them out to people, and I would bury in mason jars or in 35mm film canisters, I would pick one of the squares of the grid,
the 12 squares that were laid out in my back garden, and I would bury a mason jar, a 35mm canister, and I would send you a before Xerox I would send you a mimeograph of the chart of the 12 squares, and I would say to you, Carrie, would you please pick the square that you think contains the thing that I have buried?
And you pick that, and then I would say to you, or I would write you, really, because this is way before the internet, would you then describe for me what you think is buried there?
And I discovered people could do it.
And I went to a friend of mine who was a statistician who was more mathematically sophisticated than I was.
And he said, well, it's extremely impressive, but it would be even better if you had more squares because you would get a bigger, as do with the statistical analysis.
So I made the grid as big as the back garden would allow, which was 144 squares.
And I discovered it didn't make any difference how many squares there were.
People were just as good at it.
You can go up on YouTube and search on Alexandria Project or Deep Quest, and you can watch, for instance, George McMullen and Hella Hammond locate a buried building in a buried city in the middle of a desert after searching 1,700 square kilometers, and they get down to five-eighths of an inch.
Okay, yes.
And so in terms of doing all of this, you did this in what, starting in what year?
I'm just trying to get about it.
It started in 1968, was the first.
Okay.
The 12 square grid started in 68 and in 69 it went up to 144 squares.
All right.
So as far as remote viewing, you say that you don't do this as a classified sort of exercise.
But one would think that you would have used it in other parts of your life.
Is this not the case?
Well, I mean, I'm not quite...
I certainly...
There is a relationship...
Let me frame it differently because I've written papers about this.
Creative genius, spiritual epiphany, and remote viewing is all the same thing modulated by intention and context.
That is, scientists are trying to solve scientific problems and so that's the kind of experience they have.
Spiritual pilgrims are trying to have a transcendental experience and that's the kind of experience they have.
Remote viewers are trying to describe the teacup that's hidden in a closet a thousand miles away.
So the context and the intention is different, but they're all doing the same thing.
That is, they're accessing non-local consciousness.
So, in essence, you would do that on your own as well?
Well, yes, I certainly do it when I'm doing creative writing or something like that.
I don't quite know how to put this.
I don't personally try to remote view where my car keys are, for instance, but I design experiments.
I got interested in working in archaeology, particularly, and so I used it to locate Cleopatra's palace, Mark Anthony's palace, The Lighthouse of Pharos, one of the Seven Wonders of the Ancient World.
Christopher Columbus's Caravelle from his Fourth Voyage.
The Brig Leander in the Bahamas.
A sunken ship off the coast of Catalina.
I've used it to solve murders.
So you have used it.
When you say you've used it, did you hire people to do the remote viewing or did you do it on your own?
Oh, I put teams together.
I created what's called the Mobius Consensus Protocol.
I use multiple viewers.
Nobody else does this.
I do multiple viewers, and then I break down their responses down to every concept, and I do a concept-by-concept analysis.
So if I said, the blonde-haired woman in a black sweater sitting on the chair, that's only a sentence, but it's blonde.
First of all, it's woman.
Sitting, chair, blacks, sweater, blonde, hair.
So that's seven concepts.
And each one gets evaluated by independent experts, multiple independent experts, and it's rated on correct, partially correct, incorrect, can't be evaluated.
Okay, but so when you went, I assume you were out in the field when you were doing these.
Oh, absolutely.
No, I do it before I go out to the field.
That's what guides the field work.
Okay, and do you take your remote viewers with you or is it all done?
Yes, I take some remote viewers with me so that I can further refine what they have located on the map because any map, you know, it's just not As detailed in terms of location, it'd have to be as big as the place that it described.
So if someone draws a circle around it, I start off by asking people, I send them maps from which all the names have been taken off and all the colors have been taken off.
I make them on blueprint machines so that they're all one color, that kind of grayish, bluish thing that you see with a blueprint.
And I send them the map.
I don't even tell them where it is.
And I say, would you please go over this map?
And would you please locate for me Cleopatra's palace?
And I use these archaeological projects because they are pure triple blind and everybody agrees to that.
That is, everybody agrees there once was a Cleopatra palace, but they also agreed at the time they didn't know where it was.
So you know what you don't know.
You know that it existed At some point, but you don't know where it is now.
And so I ask people, I say, would you please locate the palace?
Would you make me a little, draw a little circle around where you think it is?
Well, that little circle on the map may be as small as a dime, but in fact, in the actual location, and it might cover a number of yards.
And so I then bring the remote viewers out and I give them a stake, as you can see in the film on Alexandria.
Or I'd give them a buoy if it's at sea.
And I say, when you get over that site exactly, would you please put a stake in the ground or would you please drop the buoy?
And then sometimes I ask them, could you please mark all the corners?
The corners are very elegant because even if somebody located a site and you were trying to find something, if I, for instance, if they put their stake in the middle of your room, They would not necessarily find the walls in your room, but if they draw, if they make stakes in the corners, the four corners, then you're going to find the walls of the room.
And in the case of Murillo, a part of the Alexandria Project, you can actually watch Hella Hammond and George McMullen locate the building, describe how deep it would be before we found it, We describe exactly what the walls were and would describe details of the walls and the floor down to five-eighths of an inch.
Okay.
And so what I was also trying to ascertain is whether or not you yourself participated as a remote viewer in those projects.
No.
Specifically, I don't.
Okay.
Because you can be on one side of the table but not the other.
Okay.
And you prefer to be the organizing sort of center of the...
Well, I don't prefer.
Nobody else does it.
So, I mean...
All right.
Fine.
All right.
So, that's, you know, that's very fascinating.
And I'm sure my audience will be very interested in that.
I do lead tours to Egypt and other places as well around the planet.
So, I'll be very interested to watch your videos and see...
Well, you can get the papers.
Go to academia.edu or go to ResearchGate.
Right.
Dot com and all of my papers, everything I do is fully public, easily available and without cost.
Okay.
So, but what I was trying to sort of figure out was whether or not you use it.
So you say you don't use it to find your car keys.
Do you use it?
In other words, do you compartmentalize this type of exercise or, you know, ability or do you, you know, allow it to flow into other parts of your life?
Well, I am a 60-year meditator, and so I meditate every day.
My wife and I meditate every night, and I use my ability to open to non-local consciousness in all sorts of ways.
Not remote viewing particularly, but all sorts of things.
Do I pick this?
Do I do that?
I publish a daily web publication, schwartzreport.net, And I use non-local awareness to detect trends that I see coming.
For instance, I've been talking about climate change since 1991.
Okay, and then what do you think it's caused by?
Climate change?
Caused by human activity.
Nothing else?
What do you have in mind?
Interplanetary things...
No.
The fact that we're moving into the Sagittarius galaxy?
Nothing.
It has nothing to do with any of that.
It has to do with the fact that we created technologies arising from the materialist worldview that dominates most of our thinking.
We think of the planet as a kind of exploitable bank account.
And so we develop technologies that don't consider that we live not We don't have dominion over the Earth.
We are, in fact, just one factor in a matrix of consciousness.
And the things that we are doing are disrupting the matrix.
Okay.
And do you believe that planets themselves have consciousness?
Planets?
Well, everything has consciousness.
You know, in 1931, they asked Max Planck, who was the father of quantum mechanics, who didn't give very many interviews, In 1931, the Observer newspaper got him to agree to an interview, and the reporter asking, you and Einstein are the two most famous scientists in the world.
What have you learned?
Now, I don't know what they thought he was going to say, or whether he was going to talk about atoms, or I don't know.
I don't know what they thought he was going to say, but what he said is the important part.
He said, what I have learned is that consciousness is causal and fundamental.
You cannot get behind consciousness.
Space-time arises from consciousness, not consciousness from space-time.
So everything is a manifestation of consciousness.
Okay, and if that's the case, then do you consider that humans created, let's say, Mars?
Humans?
No.
Humans didn't create Mars.
Okay, so what I'm getting at is how can you say that global warming is only a factor of human intervention if you do acknowledge that consciousness is everywhere?
Consciousness is in other planets, and consciousness is certainly in the sun that has to do with solar flares and so on and so forth, and supernovas and, you know, whatever else goes on out there.
In other words, you don't think these have any impact on the Earth?
I didn't say that.
All right.
Well, you said, again, I'm going back to climate change.
I said climate change was the result of human activity.
Exclusively.
Well...
We live in a matrix.
Does the matrix include other planets?
Do I think other planets are trying to create Do you not think that there are other forces impacting the Earth, geomagnetic forces, so many electromagnetic influences, consciousness influences coming from the sun, coming from the various planets out there?
In other words, what I'm trying to get at is you can't make a statement that only humans are affecting our climate on Earth when Earth is herself moving at great speeds through galaxies and the solar system.
All the planets are impacting each other.
So in other words, climate, what is climate the result of?
Does it have anything to do with the moon and interacting with the sun, solar flares, et cetera, volcanoes?
Are there natural occurrences that may also affect the climate?
There are other things which affect human consciousness and affect the matrix of consciousness.
Yes.
Geomagnetic field is one.
Solar activity is another.
James Spottiswood has identified local sidereal time as having an effect on creative consciousness.
Sweetheart Airtel Did a large study on the results of the fluctuations in the geomagnetic field, showing that when the field was very quiet, people were more creative, more patents were formed, more trademarks were filed for, more songs were written, more paintings were done, blah, blah, blah.
And Rupert Sheldrake also.
Yeah, Rupert has done...
As came up, the idea of the morphogenetic field.
These are information architectures.
Consciousness is causal and fundamental, as Planck said, and that what we think of as reality is a series of information architectures.
Okay, and so therefore, it would appear that climate change, and climate is also the result and impacted by our consciousness, will also be a factor when it has to do with geomagnetics, etc., so that we are not necessarily in control of all of it.
Well, we may not be in control of all of it, but 90% of climate change, what is going on right now, Is a result of human activity.
Okay, I understand.
That's your point of view.
Now...
God, you are precious.
That is the data.
I'm sorry, Carrie.
I live in a world of facts...
That can withstand peer review.
I don't get my information off of social media and obscure websites.
Before you proceed to insult me, you should learn something about me, don't you think?
Well, I'm just listening to what you say.
I haven't said very much.
All I'm doing is asking you questions and talking about The fact that there are other factors involved in climate change that may be nonhuman in origin.
There are other factors that have an effect on climate change, but the majority of climate change is the result of human activity, particularly using carbon power.
Okay, I understand you believe that.
All right.
So from here, you know, because not everyone agrees with you, right?
So how else can I state it?
It's not like you're right and everyone else on the planet is wrong, right?
It's not a matter of my being right.
Well then, great.
99% of the scientists in the world believe the same thing I do.
Okay, well, I guess I must be listening to the other 10%.
And you know what's interesting is sometimes the 10% are the ones that are correct, but we'll leave that aside for now.
So, okay.
So understanding that there is climate change, what I was wondering is that since you work for the Navy, is that correct?
Yes.
Okay.
Okay.
And did you come across things like underground bases, cities under the sea?
Were you interacting with what we know of as the secret space program at all?
Are you aware that there is a secret government?
Or would you deny that?
Why?
Why, why, why.
This is my area.
Wow.
Cities under the sea.
Yes.
Wow.
In underground bases, undersea bases.
Wow.
Gee whiz.
Are you not aware of this?
You're a remote viewer?
Oh, I have read...
You know, I spend a certain amount of time looking at the world that you live in and...
I don't know, I just don't actually know what to say.
Are there cities under the sea?
No, there are no cities under the sea.
In fact, even saying that, just thinking about what it would take, how that would be done, How you could do that and no one would hear about it or see it.
It's like the...
What's the other one about the...
Comtrails?
That's another one.
Chemtrails.
Chemtrails.
Yeah, the chemtrails.
You think that's a fantasy?
Yes.
Well, it's been acknowledged.
No, it hasn't.
All right.
Okay, so you're not aware of...
Are you aware of underground bases?
Underground bases...
You mean that they've built cities under the ground that have got thousands of people?
Military bases under the ground, yes.
Are you not aware of those?
No, I'm afraid not.
Okay.
What about, I know you wrote this book, Awakening, and in it you had sort of, it's a fiction, I assume, book.
No, it's everything that I know about aliens and But that I would not be able to publish in a research paper because I cannot objectively verify it.
I think it's correct.
I have reasons for thinking that.
But I couldn't do it as a scientific paper, so I wrote it as a novel.
Okay.
And so you believe that there are aliens, and I have read other interviews you've done, and you believe there's other consciousnesses out there besides you.
Oh, absolutely.
Absolutely.
All right, great.
So then I would ask you whether or not you're aware of other alien types other than the one you wrote about.
Well, if what you're asking me is, are aliens aware of humans and human civilizations, I would say to you, yes, I am sure they are.
No, I actually was asking not if aliens are aware of us, but whether you are aware of them.
In other words, of multiple races on other planets and that our secret space program is dealing with various alien races at this time.
Are you aware of that?
No, I'm not aware that we have alien embassies I have no doubt that aliens are observing us in the same way that cultural anthropologists,
in fact, they behave exactly the same way, that cultural anthropologists would be studying primitive tribes somewhere.
Their behavior is exactly what you would expect.
And I am sure That in the vast universe, that there are other consciousnesses that are not human.
Okay.
And it does appear from your book that you've come to the conclusion that all those consciousnesses are therefore positive in nature.
In other words, that they have, if they came to Earth, the best intentions towards humans.
And you believe that is because they've achieved space travel.
Is that correct?
No.
What I think is any civilization that understood That there was a matrix of consciousness would not be a materialist worldview, and their reasons for observing humans,
as I think they are doing, is because we stand at a crossroads, or maybe that's not the right metaphor, a precipice And it's not, which I think would be fairly typical of any civilization that began to develop technology,
because until you awaken to the idea that you live in a matrix of consciousness, and that technologies have impacts and unintended consequences, so I think they're watching us to see whether we survive.
And I don't think it's a done deal.
Okay, and do you feel that they're interfering with us at all?
Well, you know, years ago I had dinner with Arthur Kessler in London.
And Arthur told me that he thought that about 35 or 40,000 years ago that there was an alien intervention that...
Changed the connection between the high brain, the mid-brain, and the lower reptilian brain.
And he saw evidence of that in the development of Homo sapiens.
Okay, well that would be related through the Sumerian tablets and Zacharias Sitchin, for one thing.
Yes, Zacharias Sitchin.
So I would say that.
And then John Mack, who was another friend, I asked him one time why all of these people who claim to be abducted report these genital probing things.
And he said, well, I don't really know, but there must be some reason.
And I thought about it, and I thought if you were trying to help humans and you...
What would you do?
Well, you might alter their DNA slightly.
And that would require getting access to eggs or sperm.
And you could alter their DNA slightly to help improve humans.
I don't know whether that's true.
I'm just saying that that would make sense to me.
I think other extraterrestrial civilizations are watching humans.
So you would look at that as something in which abductees were given sort of medical examinations.
There'd be genetic reengineering involved, and you would consider that to be only positive?
Well, if the idea was to conquer us, they would have done it centuries, millennia ago.
Anybody that can do space travel could very easily have dominated the Earth and turned everybody into some sort of slave.
I could make a good argument for the fact that that has been done.
Have you ever looked at the various, you know, you say you traveled the world and you've done these remote viewings and so on.
So you must have looked at the evidence of the reptilian presence on planet Earth.
Have you ever thought to yourself that those reptilians may have dominated humans?
What reptilians?
Reptilians carved in the walls and the temples all over the world in monuments and various places.
Even in Egypt, upright, alligator, humanoid forms with alligator heads, so on and so forth.
Well, they have alligator heads.
America, Quetzalcoatl, the reptilian form is everywhere, carved everywhere in the temples around the world.
Surely you're aware of that.
Yes, of course I'm aware of that.
All right.
Have you ever thought that that might be...
Do you think that that's because there were reptilians who looked like that, who were dominating humans?
Is that what you're saying?
Yes, absolutely.
Really?
What happened to them?
Well, perhaps they have gone elsewhere, and perhaps they're still here interdimensionally.
Interdimensionally?
What does that mean?
Yes.
Have you ever met an alien being?
Not that I know of.
All right.
I saw a flying saucer once.
Okay.
Tell me about that.
Nothing.
I was out in the desert, backpacking with a friend, and we looked up, and there was this thing in the sky.
Okay.
Was it a typical saucer, or was it shaped differently?
Well, I couldn't see it well enough, but it looked saucer-ish.
Anyway, it didn't have wings.
And did you think it was one of ours?
I didn't know what it was.
Okay.
And you didn't try to remote view it?
No.
Have you ever looked back over it and tried to remote view it?
No.
No interest?
No interest.
It could be a saucer.
It could have been either high technology.
How would you know that you were correct?
How do you ever know when you're correct?
Oh, absolutely.
How do I know that what remote viewers are telling me is correct?
Because in the archaeological projects, I go where they tell me to go and I dig up the things and the places that they say are either there or they're not there.
Okay, you say you use non-local consciousness.
Are you not aware when you're right about something even though you don't get the proof in material form?
That you know that you're right?
No, I have never met anyone, including Edgar Cayce, who was probably the best Remote viewer in recorded history, or Stepanov Sovyetsky would be another one, who knew absolutely that he was right.
I've never met anybody that could do that.
Have you heard the story about Ingo Swann, remote viewing?
I think it was something about Jupiter, as I recall.
I can't remember.
You've got the story completely cocked up.
Yes, I knew Ingo very well.
Ingo and I were very good friends.
He used to stay with my wife and myself when he came down to go to Scientology.
And so, yes, I know Ingo.
Ingo got interested in doing whether it was possible to remote view a planet, whether distance made any difference.
And he and...
Oh, gosh, I can't think of his name right now.
Hal Kudoff?
No.
He was in Arkansas.
He lived in Little Rock, Arkansas.
And then moved up into the mountains in Mountain View, Arkansas.
I'll see if I can think of his name.
He's been gone now for a number of years.
They did a series of remote viewings of Mars, Jupiter, and Venus.
And they did these specifically because a space probe was going out to see those, and they were correct.
They described the ring around Jupiter Nobody knew at the time.
They described details about Mercury, which nobody knew at the time.
In fact, which contradicted what people thought was true.
And he published it in a book called To Kiss Earth Goodbye.
And it demonstrated to Ingo and to all of us that distance didn't matter, that he could remote view something on another planet As easily as he could remote view something in the next room.
Because space doesn't matter.
Time and space are not the determinants.
That's correct.
Are you familiar with a scientist called Norm Bergram?
No.
Okay, he wrote, let's see, I think it's The Ringmakers of Saturn.
It's available.
It's quite a sophisticated study of the rings around Saturn and how they might be created.
I don't know.
Okay.
Well, it's just something you might want to look into.
Ringmakers of Saturn.
It's quite a well-known book.
And he was a scientist.
He worked for the government in Moffat Field as it happened for most of his life.
I interviewed him when I was, I think, 93.
Well, I know Moffat Field, but I don't know him.
That's okay.
All right.
Yeah, sure.
So you're not aware of underground bases, but you know Moffat Field.
Yes, I know Moffat Field.
All right.
Uh, and are you aware of what I would, if I said the deep state or the secret government, would you know what I was talking about?
Oh, of course.
Okay, and would you not, so you would not associate them with underground bases, I take it?
Oh, this is priceless.
Um, I don't even know where to start.
All right.
Well, all I'm trying to do is find out what it is you know.
The government doesn't work like that, Carrie.
That isn't how it works.
I mean, I have been inside of it, and I did work for the National Security Council.
I was the Special Assistant for Research and Analysis to the Chief of Naval Operations.
I was a consultant to the oceanographer.
And you know nothing about underground bases.
How could you have a background like you do and also be a remote viewer and know nothing about underground bases?
Well, maybe because they don't exist.
Oh, my God.
I have never heard...
I will tell you...
I hope you live long enough to realize that you're going to have to eat those words.
Well, I hope you live long enough to realize how absolutely absurd what you're saying is.
You see, you can only say that because you have no idea what it would take to build an underground, an undersea bank.
On the contrary.
But at any rate, that's okay.
I'm trying to find out what it is you do know.
So do you know about the secret government?
How would you characterize it?
Do you know anything about it?
Are you familiar with or would you even consider that Truman created...
A body called MJ-12?
Or do you think that's a fantasy?
Oh, we're going to go do that.
I certainly think that as a result of the way, particularly since Citizens United, that the United States has been transformed into a country that has only one social priority,
and that is profit.
And so, because that is true, and in fact, I've published stories about this almost every day, I believe that corruption is rife, and that small groups of people, corporate people, and the very rich particularly, Have an undue influence in the development of governmental policies.
I do not believe and I see no evidence and saw no evidence that there is some secret government within the government.
I get the corruption part, but that isn't what you mean.
You You know, this is like saying that Bill Gates is for vaccines because he wants to implant microchips in people so that they can be monitored.
Somebody told me that the other day.
Well, let me ask you a few questions.
For example, have you ever looked into bloodlines?
Bloodlines?
You mean?
Human bloodlines.
You know, the royal family, the bloodlines, the occult.
Have you ever studied the occult going from, say, Aleister Crowley through the century?
Yes, I've read all of that.
Okay, but you don't acknowledge that there's any kind of cabal, any kind of power elite trying to rule the earth?
Well, as I just said, I think that there are a small group of ultra-rich people Who, because of the corruption of the American government, have the ability to unduly influence the development of social policies.
Yes, I don't think anybody who bothers to look at the data would question that.
Okay, for example, let's just get more sort of in today.
So do you feel that the election was stolen?
Do I think that Joe Biden was not accurately elected?
Was not honestly elected?
Yes.
I think that all, given over 60 court cases, having talked with a number of the people who've actually done this, that we had probably the fairest election that we have had, period.
So you don't feel the elections have been rigged for many, many years in America?
No, I do not think that.
Okay.
And there is no evidence of that, by the way.
That is absolutely fascinating.
Oh, please send me the evidence.
Please send me your evidence.
It's so prolific.
But you would have to start studying my website.
Oh, please send me your evidence.
Send me some links.
Study?
Okay.
Go to my...
Watch.
I have a thousand video interviews.
I don't have time to watch a thousand videos.
Send me...
If you think you have evidence that the election was stolen...
And I have a Telegram channel and...
It's not my job to send you evidence, and I don't have time, by the way.
Okay, well, then we'll just agree that I think it's nonsense.
You think it's...
That's all I want.
I just want your testimony.
Nonsense.
I think it's nonsense.
Fine.
And you also are not...
Are you aware of what is called Dominion, the Dominion voting machines, and are you aware of the various...
Oh, yeah.
Are you a technical person at all?
Yeah.
Do you have an IT background at all?
Yeah.
You do.
So you're in denial that they could steal an election using the technical sort of voting machines?
I don't think you understand how voting machines operate, but no, I don't think the voting machines were manipulated.
I do not think that Donald Trump was denied the presidency.
And that Joe Biden was incorrectly made.
And I don't believe that March the 4th, the 19th president would have been inaugurated.
I don't believe any of that.
Okay, fine.
I do believe that many people believe it.
Okay.
I will grant you that.
But that's a different issue.
Right, that's a different issue.
No, I'm actually interested in what you think.
And so, okay, so you don't believe there was any interference in the election.
What about the people that testified to fraud, and there are thousands of them?
Have you not heard of that?
There are not thousands of them.
And you cannot send me thousands of them.
Okay, what did Sidney Powell and, you know, spend all this time...
In court about...
Was she on some...
Sidney Powell?
Yes, Sidney Powell.
Who took the cases to court along with...
Sidney Powell is a nutcase.
And she did not have evidence, and every one of her cases was thrown out by different judges, including judges that were appointed by Republicans.
Absolutely, and obviously you don't think our courts are completely corrupt.
I am very concerned that the judges that Donald Trump appointed in many cases As attested by the American Bar Association, never should have been appointed and are incompetent to the job that they've been given, yes.
Okay, and do you think that the American Bar Association is not corrupt?
Well, I'm sure they have political leanings, but I agree that The quality of the judges appointed by Trump.
You're a Trumper.
Oh, I just got that.
I think that's nonsense.
I get it.
But that's okay.
You're a Bidener.
No, I'm not a Bidener.
I'm a fact person.
Who thinks that Biden is a definite improvement over Trump.
I mean, we've been...
You're not even aware as a remote viewer that Biden is actually a clone.
Try remote viewing it, why don't you?
Rather than laugh.
I have actually met Joe Biden several times.
When he was a senator...
Well, you probably met the...
Well, I met the clone, of course.
Of course I did.
Back in the day.
Of course.
That was probably the real thing.
Of course.
Before he died.
Yeah.
All right.
Fair enough.
You know, these are things that I thought it would be interesting to ask you, simply because I know that we disagree, but it doesn't matter that we disagree.
What matters is that you can make a case where Oh, I can make a very strong case for what I'm doing, and I'll be happy to send you the information.
All right.
Well, you may do so if you wish.
I mean, it's made in the mainstream.
Your type of beliefs are in the mainstream every day of every...
No, I'm not in the mainstream.
Well, actually, everything you've told me so far is very mainstream.
No, not really.
I believe that consciousness is causal and primary.
I believe the function of the state is to foster well-being at every level.
I wrote a book about it called The Eight Laws of Change, about how to achieve it.
I understand.
I think the function of the government should be to foster well-being at every level for every being, from humans to fish to monarch butterflies to From the individual to the family, the community, the state, the nation, and the planet itself.
All social policy.
A well-intentioned individual.
No, I'm not well-intentioned.
I do that because when you look at the evidence, and I look at social outcome data all the time, what you see is that when possible, Policies are developed that foster well-being.
They are always, I can't find a single exception, they are always more efficient, more productive, easier to implement, nicer to live under, and much, much cheaper.
Okay, and do you believe that Fauci is fostering well-being?
I believe that Fauci is doing the best he can to foster well-being, yes.
Oh, I see.
But if you look at his policies, they're not really fostering well-being, are they?
In what way are they not fostering well-being?
Are you not aware that the amount of carbon dioxide that people are breathing is making them sicker?
Absolutely.
No, that has nothing to do with Fauci.
Well, no, Fauci just advocates, and he just did so yesterday, saying it doesn't matter if you've had a vaccine or you wear a mask, that you have to continue to social distance, wear a mask, etc., etc., regardless of the vaccines.
Yes.
I don't know what that's got to do with carbon dioxide, but yes.
It has to do with fostering well-being.
I'm just trying to get at the root of what you think is fostering well-being.
Fostering well-being?
What do I think it is?
Well, that means that you would be healthier.
Fostering well-being in their policies on planet Earth at this time.
Are there countries that are doing that?
Is that what you're asking me?
No, I'm saying, are Gates and Fauci fostering well-being with their policies on planet Earth at this time?
Well, Fauci is doing the best he can in a horrible situation because we had such a disastrous handling of the pandemic.
Bill Gates, I don't know all the things that Bill Gates is into, and neither do you.
I'm not prepared to say anything.
Well, there's plenty of publicity around him, so I think you can at least address some of them.
Well, I don't entirely agree with Bill Gates because I have, again, my view is you can measure the fostering of well-being.
It's easy to do.
You can, for instance, look at the United States and see that we have the worst maternal mortality rate.
We rank, according to the World Health Organization, 37th in the world.
We spend more money on healthcare than any other country on earth, and we have horrible outcomes.
We have We have the largest gulag incarceration.
We have 2.3 million people in prison.
We have 4.23% of the world population, 25% of the prisoners.
We have lower literacy rates.
I mean, on any one of the social outcome data that you can pick, we're not doing very well.
And so I would radically change the government, and I do what I can to make that happen.
Okay, and I'm not going to keep you for much longer, and I do appreciate your time.
Tony Robbins, are you familiar with that sort of...
Oh yes, I know Tony.
You know Tony.
And you know that he just made a video talking about the actual death rates from various diseases for every year, including this one, and that there is basically no change from year to year, except that miraculously people and that there is basically no change from year to year, except that miraculously people aren't dying of heart disease or cancer or anything else, but they are dying of COVID to the exact degree that they've died of all these other
Are you aware he made a video recently to that effect?
No.
I don't follow Tony.
I've met him.
I got him invited to the Merv Griffin show, which is one of the things that got him started when I was a guest on Merv Griffin and co-hosted it, but I don't follow all that.
It's a very short clip.
It's about less than three minutes.
I'll send it to you after our discussion here via email, since that might interest you.
What it indicates is that there is something distinctly wrong with so-called deaths from COVID. Are you aware that doctors were paid extra to diagnose COVID-19?
Oh, you really are out in this strategy.
No, I'm just asking you.
It's a direct question.
I am aware that in certain quarters of social media, those sorts of things are said.
Are you afraid that doctors have claimed this?
That they've been paid to diagnose COVID? Yes.
Paid extra.
Send me a doctor who said that.
Okay, there are many.
I mean, there may be doctors who said that.
I don't know.
I mean, I'm sure you have some reason for believing that.
Yes, there are many, and I've interviewed several of them.
Yeah, I get that.
Okay.
Well, I mean, that's very, it's fascinating.
Okay, so I want to thank you for coming on the show.
Is there anything you'd like to say before we close this down?
All of you people who are listening to this show, whoever you are, wherever you are, if you really want to create social change, here's how to do it.
Every day you make thousands of little decisions.
The toothpaste you buy, the dog food you buy, the gasoline you buy, whatever.
Every single one of those is a form of voting.
So if you make the commitment that from this day forward, every choice you make will always be the one that is the most life-affirming, compassionate, and fostering of well-being,
and you will tell 10 people that you're doing this as a discipline, and invite them to join you and tell 10 of their friends to do it, Between now and the next election, you can transform the United States into a country in which well-being is the first priority, not profit.
Okay.
Thank you very much, Stephan A. Schwartz.
Thank you for being on the show.
Okay.
All right?
Sure.
Take care.
You too.
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