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Feb. 6, 2021 - Project Camelot

01:46:23

TERRY LOVELACE: AIR FORCE ALIEN ABDUCTION: 2ND BOOK "THE RECKONING"

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	Hi, everyone. everyone.
	I'm Carrie Cassidy from Project Camelot.
	Very happy to be here today.
	So I've got Terry Loveless with me, and it's lovely to see you, Terry.
	Thank you.
	It's a real pleasure to be here, Carrie.
	Great.
	And I've been reading your second book and enjoying it, and so I want to recommend it to everyone.
	So I'll bring it up on the screen here just briefly while we're just getting started.
	Whoa.
	Hold on one second here.
	There is a delay, and that will disappear.
	So just wait one second here.
	Too many windows open.
	Okay.
	So this is his book.
	I think I've got it on the screen here.
	Yeah.
	Great.
	Okay.
	So sorry for that feedback issue.
	All right.
	So Terry, let's start out with introducing you and talk about your background, how you maybe briefly encapsulate your story and also refer to your background as an attorney.
	Well, sure, I can do that easily.
	My name is Terry Lovelace.
	I was born in St.
	Louis, Missouri, graduated from high school in 1973 and enlisted in the United States Air Force and was active duty from 1973 to 1979.
	It was during that time in 1977 that I had an abduction, a friend and I did.
	From Devil's Den State Park, which is in the northwest corner of Arkansas.
	Before I get to that, by way of bio, I finished high school, finished my six-year enlistment in the United States Air Force, finished a bachelor's degree in psychology and a law degree from Western Michigan, practiced law for a little bit in private practice, and then became a civil servant.
	I was an assistant attorney general for the United States Territory of American Samoa, For five years.
	And then from there, I went to the state of Vermont, where I did the same work, basically.
	Retired in 2012, had an x-ray of my leg in 2012, in October of 2012, after I'd retired, and discovered I had two weird anomalies in my leg.
	And that's really what kicked this all off, because I had no intention of ever writing a book or ever discussing this publicly.
	Seeing the x-ray and the knowledge they put hands on me sometime just kind of opened that door.
	And that's where we're at today.
	Right.
	And can you talk about what happened like You're going to have to tell the story about, you know, what went on when you were abducted, because it's quite extraordinary.
	And it was a life-changing experience.
	And then we can kind of eventually move our way over to talking about why you wrote a second book and get into all of that.
	So let's tell the story briefly, if possible.
	Sure.
	Sure.
	As briefly as I can.
	My friend and I, we worked as EMTs, first responders.
	We worked in an emergency room at Whiteman Air Force Base on the night shift.
	And we worked three years together.
	My friend was Toby.
	He was from Flint.
	I was from St.
	Louis, Missouri.
	Neither one of us had ever been camping in our lives.
	And he came to me one night and said, I got a great idea, man.
	Let's go camping.
	And the idea just seemed kind of absurd to me, but...
	It kind of grew on me after a while.
	I had a new camera I wanted to try out.
	I was an amateur photographer.
	I thought it might be cool to photograph some wildlife, some scenery.
	So we went and we drove down to Devil's Den on a Saturday in June 1977.
	And we had agreed beforehand not to stay in the campgrounds.
	We stayed.
	We found a high plateau that's isolated on the north West side of the park.
	And it's actually not inside the bounds of the park, and it's actually located on Federal Brown, managed by the Bureau of Land Management, is who it's deeded to.
	And there was a, you know, a keep out sign and a chain across the road.
	And my friend noticed that the chain was really just Looped over itself and locked in place to form a noose and draped over the opposing post.
	So he's like, hey man, I got this.
	He hops out of the car, picks up the chain, it drops to the road, and we just drove in and eventually made our way to this plateau, which you really can't see from the ground because it is level with the treetops, the summit.
	The top of it is level with the treetops.
	And we got there and it was the perfect place to camp.
	It was beautiful.
	And we set up a camp on the side by the tree line.
	And quickly, we did all the fun stuff you do when you camp.
	It was all new to us.
	And actually had a pretty good time.
	Set up a little $10 Kmart tent, blow up air mattresses, you know, made a fire.
	We had no experience with this, but, you know, it ain't rocket science.
	It's pretty basic stuff.
	And that evening, our first evening there, we had been just having a nice conversation.
	And we were used to working a midnight shift.
	So, I mean, this was like afternoon for us.
	This was our morning.
	This was not...
	I mean, we had the right to be tired from the drive, but we weren't sleepy.
	We also weren't drinking or smoking anything.
	We were stone cold sober.
	Nothing wrong with our eyesight.
	And while we're having this conversation on these air mattresses back and forth, I suddenly noticed, well, there was a lull in our conversation and I could hear that.
	And this sounds cliche, I know, but it's true.
	And I've heard it from other people.
	And that is that the sounds of the forest went still, went absolutely dead quiet.
	So there were no crickets or tree frogs or whatever the stuff is out there that makes noise that it all shut down.
	Even the breeze that we had earlier had stopped.
	And it was like being in a sound booth almost.
	It was that quiet.
	The only thing we could hear was a fire.
	And it unnerved me, but my friend was like, ah, no, don't worry about it.
	We've been talking, making, laughing, cutting up.
	They'll be back.
	Bugs will come back.
	Don't worry about it.
	But I did.
	It unnerved me.
	So I'm going to share a picture.
	You've sent me a couple of photographs of the area that you have in the book.
	And so it's on screen right now, if you want to...
	Yes, we're sure we stayed.
	You can't really see it.
	But on the north side, there's a little road that cuts through.
	It's dirt still to this day.
	And then there's a steep incline.
	You can't really tell it too much from this photo, but this is elevated.
	And I love the fact that it's triangular shape.
	I described it in the book as being horseshoe shape because I didn't have a Google Earth image to go by.
	We had just walked it back in the day.
	And we were at the top of this picture and about in the middle is where we had set up our camp.
	And my friend, after it became still, my friend had his head turned to the left, and he was looking at something.
	And I'm like, I'm about to ask him, and he asked me first.
	He says, hey, Terry, were those lights there before?
	And I knew we were in a remote location, and there was no light.
	There were no lights.
	The only light, yeah, that's a good shot that gives you an idea of the elevation.
	So when we were up there, we were level with the treetops.
	It was a spectacular campsite.
	We had it all to ourselves.
	Very unusual place.
	He asked me about these lights and I looked and I saw there were three little stars in a tight triangle sitting just above the western horizon.
	Each one was about as bright as a north star so they were pretty bright and they looked artificial.
	They didn't look Because they were packed in this tight little triangle.
	They were too far off the ground to have been like a train or parking lot lights.
	And we were too remote for that anyway.
	And we thought for a minute, for a second, you know, it might be an airplane headed right toward us.
	And we couldn't really see it would appear motionless until it changed course by a degree or two.
	And then we could see what it was.
	But we watched it and it didn't change.
	And while we're watching it, finally, after a couple of minutes, it rotated.
	And these three stars turned one time, about 120 degrees, and it oriented itself so that the base of the pyramid was parallel with the horizon, still above the horizon.
	And our reaction to this was muted.
	I mean, we should have been a lot more interested, maybe frightened.
	There should have been some kind of emotional response to this.
	And there wasn't.
	And it started to climb up into the sky, slowly at first, but then it picked up speed.
	And it was a beautiful night.
	There were a trillion stars out, so the sky was blue, not so much black.
	And we could see as it climbed up, as it would pass fields of stars, you could see it was black in the center.
	So it was one solid object.
	It wasn't three objects moving in unison.
	And it reached the ceiling, and I don't know how high it was because I had no reference, but it stopped, and then it kind of leveled out, and it was pointed, the apex of the triangle was pointed right in our direction, and it started to slow glide down.
	And as it glided down, it would do the somersault thing every now and then, where it would, the front of the The thing would dip underneath and then the back would turn around and it would do a complete somersault.
	And it was interesting.
	And I had this feeling that it was moving with purpose, you know, that it wasn't out of control or just it was moving with intention, if that makes sense.
	And about this time, I felt the second wave of calm wash over me.
	And I think that speaks to the level of influence that these things had over us.
	Because neither one of us, there's not a word spoken between the two of us, and here we're witnessing this outrageous thing.
	And finally, we watched it as it came in, and it descended to about 5,000 feet on the horizon, and then glided in towards us, and dropped down to about 3,000 feet.
	We could see the shadow move across the tops of the trees.
	It was kind of unnerving and it stopped directly over this meadow that you saw, the picture of a roughly triangular shaped meadow.
	And it filled that area.
	Again, it's 3,000 feet over our heads, but we could see that it was enormous.
	I describe it in the book as being a city block long on each leg of the triangle.
	And that's about right.
	It was about the size of...
	It was like a super Walmart.
	It was just...
	It was enormous.
	And it had lights on each point of the triangle still.
	And...
	After it stopped, it shot a beam of light down from underneath and center.
	And this was maybe a six inch column of white light, visible light, like you'd get with a searchlight cutting through fog.
	And it landed square in our campfire and stayed there for maybe 60 seconds and then clicked off.
	And after that, there was a, immediately after that, that was followed by a laser.
	I've only seen lasers on television in 1977, but I recognized what it was.
	And it kind of danced all over the campsite.
	And it struck me in the chest twice.
	I never felt a thing.
	I know it struck my friend.
	And that lasted maybe a couple minutes.
	And then it just shut off like someone hit a switch.
	And we're sitting there for a few minutes in the dead quiet.
	And then I felt this wave of absolute sleepy.
	I mean, if you've ever been in a situation where all you wanted to do was lay your head down and go to sleep, more than anything else in the world, that's how I felt.
	And that's what we did.
	My friend stood up first.
	And I think he said something like, show's over, which was about the only words we'd spoken since we first saw this thing.
	And he went over and he threw his mattress in the tent and fell on top of it.
	And I followed suit.
	I did the same.
	And I was out the second my head hit the plastic pillow.
	And the nearest we can tell, I was out somewhere between four and six hours.
	We didn't know the time because we found out later, both of our watches, we had nice mechanical wind-up watches.
	You know, they were kind of the standard of the day.
	We needed good watches because they were integral to the job of being an EMT. Both of our watches stopped at 2.40, you know, 2.40 a.m., and never worked again.
	I woke up some hours later, I don't know how long, and there was this flash of white and yellow light through the tent, through the canvas that put up the hole inside of the tent.
	And it woke me up, and I sat up, and I'm kind of out of it.
	I don't have my wits about me.
	And I rationalized that these lights must be the overhead You know, likes of a park ranger's truck.
	And I sat up and I'm like confused, trying to figure this thing out.
	I noticed that my shoes and my combat boots that I wore for the trip were unlaced almost completely down.
	And that bothered me.
	That annoyed me.
	It didn't make sense.
	I took my boots off and my socks were on sideways.
	I would never do that.
	You know, they teach you in the military.
	Drill it into you to take care of your feet.
	And then I looked at my friend, and in one of these flashes of white light, I could see that he'd been crying, because I could see the saline in his tears fluoresce against the white light, and I could see a trail down the side of his face.
	And that scared me, because I didn't know what in the world would make this guy cry.
	So I got to my knees, and he's fixated at something looking out the flap of the tent on his side.
	And I pulled back the flap on my side about two inches, and I peeked out and saw two things.
	That ship that had been 3,000 feet over our heads had descended, and it's now like 30 feet over the meadow.
	We're just a tad off to the side of it, thank God.
	It's not directly hanging over our heads, but it's darn close.
	And the second thing I saw was what I first caught were children, maybe a dozen or 15 of them walking around the meadow.
	And I could only see them.
	They were a fair distance away, so I couldn't see them real clearly.
	But in the flashes of white light from the triangle, I could see that they appeared to be about three foot tall.
	And, you know, I'm confused.
	I asked my friend, you know, what are these kids doing out here in the middle of the night in the middle of nowhere?
	And that's when he said, Terry, those ain't no little kids.
	They took us and they hurt us.
	Don't you remember?
	Look at them.
	They're not human beings.
	And I did look again and he was right.
	They were not human beings.
	They were greys.
	And we were scared to death then because we were afraid we'd cough, we'd sneeze, we'd do something to draw attention to ourselves.
	And we had no way of knowing they were done with us.
	You know, they were long finished with us.
	So, Terry, can I ask you, you know, because we've related this story on my other interviews with you and just for other people that are listening but aren't familiar with the story, just want to say that, you know, when you were experiencing this back in those days, the name Gray's was not commonplace.
	And also, I don't know, you know, I don't know exactly when Spielberg's Close Encounters came out.
	That movie hadn't come out either, right?
	No, that came out that November.
	Oh, interesting.
	Okay.
	And I only call them greys now because people associate with them and that's what they looked like.
	Back in the day, I thought they were aliens, monsters.
	I didn't know.
	I mean, but...
	In the popular culture that you followed and your friend, obviously, were you aware of ideas of aliens?
	Did it cross your mind that this is something you had heard about before or not?
	Yes.
	Well, you know, I mean, in pop culture, it was very common.
	I mean, there were tons of television shows about...
	All right.
	So you had a frame of reference of some type.
	Sure, sure.
	My experience as a child was I saw flying saucers twice, but once when I was eight, once when I was 11, very briefly.
	But so in my mind, things from outer space came in saucers.
	So I'm seeing something totally different, which was very overwhelming.
	But I knew that whatever we were looking at didn't come from, you know, this wasn't made by Boeing.
	Right.
	And it was also unusually large.
	I mean, you're really describing something very large, right?
	Yes.
	And, you know, we were both in the Air Force.
	We spent time on the flight line.
	We knew about things that flew.
	And we knew that this just violated all the laws of physics, at least Newtonian physics, that we understood.
	So, at this point, what I'd like to do is kind of fast forward, because the...
	The upswing there, or whatever you want to call it, is that you left in a hurry, you had burns, and you were dehydrated, heavily dehydrated, and you ran out of there, left your tent behind and everything else, and then you ended up going to a store to get something to drink.
	Maybe you can pick it up just briefly and then kind of segue into your new book and why, because that's where it kind of gets into why you wrote your new book.
	Sure.
	Let me fast forward.
	Yeah, we stopped because we were both terribly dehydrated.
	We were both just, I mean, I'd never been so thirsty in my life.
	And we found out when we got to the hospital, we were dehydrated.
	They hospitalized us for two nights, three days.
	And to make a long story short, they separated the two of us by order.
	They cut orders for Toby to go to Japan, like, at light speed.
	And I found out from David Hastings, who wrote UFOs and nukes, And has a lot of experience with people in the military, especially, I was on a nuclear base.
	We were on a nuclear base.
	And he said it's very, very common.
	You know, two NCOs, you know, a group of military people see something, if they're friends, they disband, you know, the band breaks up.
	And so that was common.
	Right.
	Absolutely.
	Okay.
	Now, there's one thing that I don't know if you get back to it, because I think I'm about halfway through your book.
	I'm not sure exactly.
	And there was a section that hasn't shown up in the book that I'm wondering if you do come around to it or if you don't ever get back to it, which is where you were interrogated.
	Yeah, I don't talk about it in the second book, but the interrogation is...
	Is in the first book.
	Because I find that particularly interesting, that whole interrogation scene.
	And so maybe you could allude to that a bit.
	I'm not sure if it relates to what comes in your book later.
	It can be a spoiler for me.
	I don't mind.
	I'll still be interested.
	But you know what I'm saying?
	It is a huge part of the story, and it explains a couple of things.
	Yeah.
	The military was prepared for this kind of occurrence, giving you pills.
	Let me just say that your second book is more investigative.
	So you tend to go over the details the way an investigative journalist would, which I appreciate.
	And you looked at it a little less passionate.
	The first book is quite a It's a wonderful, actually, thriller in a sense.
	But the second book is more analytical, right?
	I think so.
	And that was the intent.
	I wanted to be a little more dispassionate and a little more...
	Yeah, facts and fill in the blanks.
	I left some blanks that I'd like to cover and probably should real quick.
	You know, like in the beginning of the incident at Devil's Den, I talk about the guy that went missing, the guy named Rodney Letterman, who went missing from Devil's Den State Park in 2017 when I was writing the book.
	And I promised the readers, I said, you know, as of the time I'm publishing this, March 10, 2018, nothing's been found in Rodney Letterman.
	He just disappeared.
	He was walking the trail with a friend, and he was an asthmatic, and he was having an asthma attack.
	And he said, you know, I left my inhaler back in the truck.
	Would you mind running back and getting it for me?
	So we're about a mile down the trail.
	So his friend runs back to the truck, grabs his inhaler and runs back.
	Gone maybe 25 minutes, 30 minutes maybe.
	Gets back, no Rodney Letterman.
	Finds his cell phone on the ground.
	But Rodney's having an asthma attack.
	He can't walk too far.
	And the terrain off the trail is very rough and rocky.
	And He called the Ranger Station.
	They mounted a huge effort.
	They used 2,500 searchers.
	Helicopters were forward-looking, infrared radar to look for a heat signature.
	All the usual things and never did find the guy.
	The family paid for private searchers and trackers.
	Never found a thing.
	The cell phone was on the ground and they called the I talked to a deputy sheriff from the Russellville Police Department, who I can't name, but he told me they brought the dogs out and the dog could pick up their scent, Rodney's scent, from the truck to the phone and on the phone, but nowhere around the phone.
	He said that they just sat down.
	And I said, well, what does that mean?
	I'm not familiar with tracking dogs.
	And he says, that means that the guy disappeared.
	He either disappeared or he went up, but he was gone.
	So, Until March of 2019, they find it.
	What happens was there's a young couple walking on the trail.
	And the woman, the young lady says to her friend, is that an albino turtle?
	And she's looking at something on a log that's sitting right in plain view of the trail.
	And he says, I don't know.
	And he went over and picked it up.
	And then he realized it was the top of a human skull.
	They'd been bleached white by the sun.
	And he dropped it and notified the rangers.
	Bartlesville Medical Examiner, Bartlesville, Oklahoma, verified through DNA that it was Rodney's skull.
	And that's all they've ever found with a guy.
	Incredible.
	Yeah.
	What a tragedy.
	So, okay.
	So that was another occurrence.
	And it happened in what year?
	August of 2017.
	2017.
	And you were there, but that's actually recent.
	It is recent, yes.
	Oh, so this...
	For some reason it happened before you went there, but it happened many, you know, obviously very recently.
	So obviously that area is still a very dicey, dangerous area to go into.
	I consider it to be so.
	David Politis would agree with me.
	The fourth volume in his Missing 411 series is called The Devil is in the Details.
	And Devil's Den is included in that book.
	Right.
	Figures.
	So, okay.
	So now you're going to talk about, I guess, things you left out of the book and And, you know, also wanted you to talk about the interrogation.
	So however you want to go through that.
	Let me start with the interrogation.
	All right.
	You know, because that's kind of chronologically kind of what's next.
	What's telling was I spent two nights in the hospital and I knew I was going home on the third day.
	And remember that I, you know, I worked in the ER. I was a member of the hospital squadron.
	So medical people take care of their own.
	I was treated very, very well.
	Right.
	I'm in my hospital room.
	I had a private room.
	And the night nurse, who I knew well, came in to give me an injection for sleep.
	And two guys in blue business suits followed her in.
	And the guy in charge, who was about 50 years old, says, if that's going to sedate Sergeant Lovelace, it's going to have to wait because we have to ask him some questions.
	And they flashed their badges.
	And they showed me their badges.
	And I saw the security police badge and the ID for USAF Office of Special Investigations.
	If anybody's never heard of the OSI, it's Office of Special Investigations is the investigative branch of the Air Force's security police.
	Kind of like NCIS is to the Navy.
	So these were like detectives.
	And they interrogated me.
	And I had never had an encounter with the police before.
	You know, I was a pretty straight kid.
	And these guys are scaring me to death.
	And I'm thinking, my God, what did I do?
	Did we burn the forest down or something, you know?
	And he read me my rights under the Uniform Code of Military Justice.
	I didn't understand a word of it.
	And then...
	He just interrogated me.
	He says, well, you guys left the campsite down there.
	That means that implies that you plan to go back.
	Did you guys have a little marijuana plot down there?
	Is that what this is all about?
	And that scared me because I thought, you know, what if by chance somebody just happened to be growing marijuana down there?
	They hang it on us.
	And that would have been a very big deal in 1977.
	So they finished interrogating or intimidating me.
	And then the captain left, and the major, the guy in charge, hung back for a minute.
	And the head of my bed was by the door, and he bent down next to my ear.
	And I believe, from my memory, he had his hand on the door.
	And he said to me, and he had a southern accent, kind of like Calvin Parker, kind of Alabama, maybe Mississippi, Alabama.
	He said...
	Son, I know, and you know, you two knuckleheads stumbled onto something while you were out there, and I think you know what I'm talking about.
	Now, Toby and I reached an agreement that we would not disclose under any circumstances that we saw a UFO, because it would have terrible implications.
	It could be a psych ward, it could be a discharge, all kinds of bad things could flow from that.
	So, I think he knew It was a cat and mouse kind of question.
	And I didn't know how to answer it, so I didn't answer it.
	And he tried again, and he said, oh, I think you know what I'm talking about.
	And all I want to know is how many pictures did you take of it?
	And I said, sir, I never took a single picture.
	And then I realized, you know, cat's out of the bag now.
	You know, and he just smiles real big.
	He knows, I know, I know, he knows.
	And that...
	Right, and for a while, they didn't believe you when you said you didn't have your camera with you because initially you were supposed to bring your camera and you forgot it.
	It was the whole point of the exercise, and I left it at home, and I'm just not that inept.
	And you guys also forgot a number of things, almost as if you were in a trance right before you left.
	Very much so.
	And like I said...
	You're not forgetful, guys, because you're...
	You work in an emergency room where you have to, you know, sort of have your wits about you, right?
	Yeah, you know, and not only that, but I mean, think about it.
	I mean, we stock in ambulance every night before we go off ship.
	You know, planning and stocking my car for this trip should have been a no-brainer.
	You know, I had special film.
	I had my camera bag packed.
	And you know, in all fairness, my friend Toby had a camera in his bag, in his backpack, that was a foot away from him while we were outside.
	You know, he could have reached in and took his camera out and taken a dozen pictures of this thing.
	And you know the thought to take a picture of that never crossed our minds?
	And just real quick, they hauled me into the OSI office for an interrogation.
	I had signed some documents, consent forms, when I was in the hospital.
	And I gave them consent to search my house and my car, and they did.
	And they didn't find anything, of course.
	And then they...
	One day my squadron commander calls me and says, the OSI would like to talk to you.
	They're sending a car over for you.
	It's going to be out front shortly.
	I suggest you don't keep them waiting.
	And I said, yes, sir.
	And I ran out the front door and here this blue squad car pulls up and I hop in and we went to OSI headquarters and What they did was I ended up in an interrogation room with the two special agents that visited me while I was in the hospital.
	And then a third guy who was a major, he wore, you know, Light blue shirt, navy blue pants, had the gold oak leaves for denoting he was a major on his collar, but no name tag, and that's significant.
	And he didn't carry himself like a military officer.
	He carried himself like a therapist or a priest or something.
	And he was a hypnosis guy, a hypnotherapist, and he had a little shaving A kid under his arm.
	And in it he had a towel and a syringe, some rubber tubing, alcohol swabs, band-aid.
	And they administered sodium ametal to me and did their best to hypnotize me.
	I resisted the hypnotism with everything I could muster in my mind.
	You know, I tried to be...
	When they told me to relax certain muscles, I tried to covertly tense them and try to keep my mind busy with, you know, lyrics to Beatle music, multiplication tables, whatever I could think of so that I didn't surrender my full mind to this guy and could resist as much as I could.
	But I had no control over the drug and the drug took me...
	But you did seem to remember that, you know, which is...
	Fairly unusual, I think.
	You remember the questions to some degree, and you remember your answers, right?
	I do.
	And the drug that they gave me was called sodium amytol.
	It was very commonly used by the OSI in the 1960s and 70s.
	And it's a short-acting hypnotic, and it's called a hypnotic for a good reason, and it will take you to a strange place.
	But I was able to see in my mind's eye, All of the stuff.
	I mean, not all of the stuff.
	I was able to see bits and pieces.
	I never had a clear linear memory of what happened to us.
	All I had is fragments, flashes.
	So, but it was enough.
	And what I recalled under the sodium amytal, what you recall under sodium amytal, you won't forget.
	You'll remember that.
	That's the purpose of the hypnosis.
	The hypnosis is to give you the hypnotic suggestion that it wasn't real.
	It was a dream.
	That's ridiculous.
	You didn't really see that happen.
	Of course, that doesn't exist.
	And then they tell you, I'm going to count to three, and then, you know, you'll not remember this at all.
	And through the whole process, I'm thinking, I'm going to remember this because these memories belong to me.
	I own them.
	I experienced this.
	And for better or worse, I want to keep them.
	And I did.
	I mean, I'm sure I lost some or a lot.
	I don't know how much.
	But I kept enough in my mind to validate the experience.
	Right.
	And so in terms of, I guess, the segue into your new book, because For the purposes of this interview, at any rate.
	And again, we encourage people to go listen to my other.
	I think I have at least two and maybe at least two other interviews with you.
	Yes.
	So you can go there if you like and get more information.
	Of course, you can always read his first book as well.
	So at that point now, you had a motivation for writing the second book.
	Can you talk about that and then We can kind of let launch into that.
	Sure, I will.
	The motivation to write the second book was really twofold.
	Number one, the questions that I left unanswered in the book, I wanted to, you know, just like the Rodney Letterman issue, I thought that deserved to be known, publicly known, because I think that's important.
	And the other thing was, I put an email on the back of Incident at Devil's Den and said, look, if you had an experience and you want to talk about it, contact me.
	And I had 1,400 people contact me.
	And it's almost 1,500 by now.
	And I've returned every single email.
	But, you know, that gave me a core of 1,500 stories to look through.
	And I read every one.
	And out of that 1,400, I isolated just under 400.
	That were some very, very credible stories and very intense.
	And I set them aside because I wanted to include them in the second book.
	So it's a little bigger in volume than I expected it to be.
	But I thought their stories were important and I wanted to share them.
	So that was the motivation to write the book.
	I had all these great stories and I had these questions to answer, especially what happened to Toby.
	Because I didn't go into that, and I can go into that briefly and tell because I know everyone's interested.
	The last time I saw my friend was in late July of 1977.
	He's packing to go to Japan.
	We both lived on base in NCO housing, and I stopped by his house to say goodbye.
	On one hand, something had changed between us.
	I mean, I feel like we went to Devil's Den as a couple of kids, and we came back as adults.
	And you said it changed us, and that's absolutely correct.
	It changed my life.
	I mean, I tend to measure my life in pre-1977 and post-1977.
	I mean, it was an incredible event.
	So I stopped by Toby's house, even though I was violating a direct order, and I ran up to this door, which I'd been through the door a hundred times, and I knocked like I usually did, opened the door and said, it's me.
	And I went in, and his wife walked past me, and they were in the middle of packing, and she said, you're not supposed to be here.
	And we were the best of friends.
	You know, nine weeks earlier, we were tight, all of us, my wife, his wife.
	And I said, I know.
	I said, I'm not here for a confrontation.
	I just want to say goodbye to Toby and wish you guys well.
	Well, Toby heard this and he walked around the corner and he was a train wreck.
	He was, now granted, I got to cut up some slack because he was in the process of moving, but he was always just real meticulous about his appearance and his hair was all wonky.
	He had a growth of beard.
	He had a Dirty t-shirt, dirty jeans, was barefoot.
	And I had never seen him in that state.
	I mean, he was always the guy that had the haircut within rags, the shined shoes, the neatly pressed uniform.
	You know, I was the slob, but he was just real meticulous about his appearance.
	And it was striking.
	And he walked up to me.
	And Toby was shorter than I am.
	He's about six inches shorter than I am.
	And I stuck out my hand the same time he stuck out his and we did this inelegant handshake that we finally made contact.
	And I said, I heard you guys are going to Japan.
	I just want to wish you well.
	And he looked up at me and he said, it happened, didn't it, Terry?
	And I said, yes, my brother, it really happened.
	And he said, yeah, but why us?
	And I said, man, I don't have an expletive clue.
	And I felt panic, and I just wanted out of there.
	And I looked down at my shoes, I broke my gaze with him, and I ran into the car.
	And I thought it would bring me some measure of closure, and it didn't.
	It brought me anxiety.
	And who knows?
	I don't understand the whole thing.
	I don't understand it to this day.
	But I should mention, too, that Toby had been drinking.
	I could smell liquor on his brow.
	And that was very out of character for him.
	He was a guy that would maybe drink a beer at a barbecue or playing cards.
	He might drink a can of beer.
	But I'd never known him to drink hard liquor.
	I'd never known him to drink more than a beer and a half.
	He and his wife went to Japan.
	And I never saw him after that.
	His wife moved back to the States.
	She left Toby, took the kids, moved back to the States, to the L.A. area, actually, and married a long-haul truck driver and got remarried, divorced Toby, and she called up my wife.
	In the early 80s and said, because we were in the St.
	Louis phone book, she called us up and said, hey, you know, you guys want to catch up?
	My husband and I, I'm going to go with him on this run to Detroit.
	We're going to be right by your house.
	You know, you guys want to get together and have dinner, talk over old times?
	Sure, yeah, let's do.
	So we did.
	So the four of us got together and I met her new husband, nice guy.
	And I... It was kind of awkward with her new husband there to go into too much detail, but I said, you know, you've got to tell me what happened to Toby.
	And in a nutshell, he fell into alcoholism.
	You know, he never drank during the day, or rarely drank during the day, but he was terrified of going to sleep.
	And I kind of understand that.
	I mean, that's when the monsters come in.
	That's when you're vulnerable, if you've had an experience like this.
	And it's common for people to have sleep disturbance.
	And she said he would just pound vodka before he went to bed and just basically pass out.
	But, you know, you do that long enough and, you know, you're going to rob yourself of REM sleep.
	You're not going to do well mentally.
	And I think that probably accelerated his deterioration.
	And he was living in Flint with his dad.
	I had called his father because I had his dad's phone number.
	Once in the early 80s.
	And his dad said, well, Toby doesn't actually live here.
	He stays here sometimes.
	And I got the impression maybe he's homeless.
	I don't know.
	So I left my number and said, please have him call me.
	And I didn't hear from him.
	And then I called him on Christmas time and the phone had been disconnected.
	We found out that the family had gave, they gave Toby the home because he was homeless and he was having trouble holding a job.
	And he owned that family home until he lost it for nonpayment of taxes.
	Now, there's a part that you befriend, I think, an attorney or a JAG attorney or something like that.
	In the military, and then you asked them to search for him a few years later.
	Can you talk a little bit about that?
	Because that was a really strange...
	It's a very strange story.
	And I'm a little reticent to even repeat it on air because, you know, I got some nasty phone calls from FBI agents.
	Well, from two.
	And I said, look, you know, I'm not tarring everyone with the same brush here, you know.
	I don't know what his motivation was.
	Maybe it was a mistake.
	I personally think that somewhere within government circles, we have a file and that file says, keep these two guys apart.
	Because if they got together, you know, two people telling the same story, each can bolster the other, and you got a much more believable story.
	Right.
	And then back then, if you were to go public, that would be very detrimental to their situation, I guess.
	Yeah, I think so.
	And I mean, I think that they, you know, I could have suffered consequences in the form of, you know, damage to my legal career.
	But they, you know, obviously they didn't want two Air Force, you know, soldiers coming forward, even, you know, anytime since then.
	Even now, it would be probably, they'd probably have an issue with it.
	Yeah, I think so.
	That's the world we live in.
	We don't have that.
	We don't have two people coming forward with the same exact experience that are in the military.
	That would be telling tales on the military.
	There would be a military...
	You were interrogated.
	Tell this story about this guy.
	We were friends.
	I was working on a case where the FBI was involved.
	We became friends.
	On Friday nights, we'd meet at the bar now and then and have a beer and talk about the week.
	One weekend, I asked him, I said, hey, my buddy, I'm trying to find a friend of mine I was in the Air Force with.
	Can you help me find him?
	And this is FBI humor.
	It's kind of dry humor, but you've got to remember the FBI's job is to hunt fugitives.
	And he's like, sure, I can find him as long as he's not a fugitive.
	And I laughed and he feigned a laugh.
	It was his joke.
	He said, write down everything you know about this guy, get it to me, and I'll do my best to find him for you.
	And he says, you know, this isn't an official investigation.
	This is a favor for a friend, but I'll see what I can do.
	I said, oh, that's really cool.
	Thank you, Frank.
	And I did what he asked me to do.
	And about a week and a half later, he said, meet me at the bar.
	I got some information for you.
	I'm like, oh, great.
	So we meet at the bar, and he's late.
	But when he walks in, I could tell by the way he's walking that Something's not right.
	And he sits down and he says, Terry, I got bad news for you.
	I'm afraid your friend is dead.
	And I said, what do you mean he's dead?
	He's a young man.
	How could he be dead?
	And he said, Terry, it was an automobile accident.
	It was an accident on 94 that involved a crossover and a head-on collision and your friend was killed.
	I'm very sorry.
	And I was stunned.
	And he said, but Terry, you know, you've been around the block once or twice.
	You know, this stuff happens.
	You know, we never know when it's going to happen.
	And, you know, that's part of it.
	And take it for what it's worth and get over it.
	And I did.
	And, you know, I kicked myself because I could have very easily called Michigan State Police where I had contacts.
	I could have done any number of things to verify that accident.
	That accident never happened.
	In 2017, when I wrote the book, I wanted to go find his obituary and I wanted to go see his, maybe visit his grave.
	And that's when I found out he was alive until September 4th, 2007.
	So, there we go.
	That's all that time, all those, you know.
	Yeah, they really went out of their way to keep you guys apart.
	They did.
	And that's very sad.
	Yeah.
	Alright, so now in terms of, you know, because I mean, I want you to tell whatever you want from the book.
	Is there any bits and pieces then going through the book that you would like to share here?
	Yeah, you know what I'd like to share?
	There's some stuff in the book about my early childhood, but it's kind of lengthy.
	And I had written it, actually, for inclusion in the first book.
	And my editor said, well, you've got enough stuff about your childhood.
	Why don't you pull this out?
	So I set it aside.
	But I really thought it was cogent, relevant to the story.
	It should be included.
	So I put it in this book.
	But it's a little too lengthy to go into now.
	Yeah.
	No, I think it is, actually, because I've just read that.
	I think now...
	There is this woman, this ET, maybe alien-human hybrid that you constantly met with through the years.
	Do you have more to say about her in this book than you did in the first?
	I sure do.
	You know, I can only recall seeing her twice in my adult life.
	And that was explained in Devil's Den when she appeared in the last chapter when I talk about her appearing in my living room.
	I woke up in my living room, you know, 2.30 in the morning, sitting bolt upright in my chair.
	And she's seated directly across from me.
	And she's wearing what looks like a black cotton blouse with long sleeves, black slacks, black nursing shoes with a thick heel.
	And they're extra long sleeves on the blouse that she's wearing and I can see the four fingers sticking out.
	And she was wearing a scarf, a red scarf tied loose around her neck because her neck is pencil thin.
	She was wearing a wig made for a human head, and it was on all sideways, kind of, because you can't really see it so much from the front, but from the back, there's a bulbous back to her head.
	It's not a human skull.
	And she was wearing this wig, and she had on these black sunglasses, large, oversized sunglasses, and we spoke telepathically, because the first thing I thought was, I had that feeling of calm again.
	I wasn't going crazy about this strange woman being in front of me at 2.30.
	I'm looking at my alarm panel.
	The alarms haven't gone off.
	My cat's on the couch all chill and laid back.
	I'm in that zone of just being relaxed.
	And this, now in the first book you talk about, she actually warns you not to write the book.
	Is that right?
	She sure did.
	And then, so how did, what is it that you talk about in the second book that maybe you didn't include in the first book and maybe why you didn't include it and then why you decided to write about it?
	Yeah, well there are a lot of things that hadn't yet happened.
	After I published the book, there were a lot of things, a lot of strange things that happened, including, you know, in April of 2018, I get a phone call, and I answer the phone, and the voice says, Hello, Terry, this is Tom DeLonge.
	And I'm sorry to sound ignorant, but I didn't know, Blink-182, I didn't know who he was.
	And I said, Well, hi, Tom, it's nice to talk to you.
	And he said, I'm here with Lou Elizondo.
	And Steve Justice.
	And we want to talk about maybe coming to see you and about these things in your leg.
	And after that conversation, arrangements were made for a doctor to come visit me.
	And I won't use his name because he asked me not to, and he was very kind to me.
	Okay, now let me just clarify for people listening that the people he's talking about, Luis Elizondo...
	And Tom DeLonge are part of what's called To the Stars Academy with Hal Pudoff and a number of other military, or as they call themselves, ex-military individuals who are part of the whole disclosure movement, if you will.
	So they're kind of, you could even call them semi-celebrities in the To the Stars Academy and Also instrumental in trying to supposedly disclose to the public the truth.
	So they call him up, which is fairly unusual for a contactee to get direct contact with this group.
	And so they had special interest in him, obviously.
	So go ahead and...
	The medical doctor came to see me and...
	Stayed two days and was very very kind and very patient with me and wanted to hear my entire story and he took extensive notes and he was able to get some we redid my x-rays and he was able to triangulate the things in my leg and identify how deep they were under my skin and that they were legitimate solid objects and that they are there and I had had this problem that started
	shortly after he left where, and this sounds so crazy, I think I may have told you about this on our first show about the helicopters flying over our house.
	Yeah, sure.
	It's so cliche, I know.
	Yeah.
	I have 168 photographs of helicopters.
	Wow.
	Close up flying over my house.
	That lasted about nine months.
	That was so, you know, that started off to be a joke and it was kind of comedic or kind of funny in a way.
	But you know, it really wore us down.
	And it really started to become unpleasant.
	And we ended up, I had no intention of selling my house, we ended up selling the house and moving.
	And that was in June of 2019.
	We moved the last day of the month.
	And Lou Elizondo came to see me because he wanted to see the helicopters and film my story.
	And I should mention that since publishing the book, I've had some poltergeist-like activity in the house.
	And I don't think I've ever told you about that.
	I've had, you know, like the TV turn on at 2am in the morning in the living room.
	Yvonne Smith actually was a witness to an event in Roswell in 2018, July 4, 2018.
	She had a bottle of water sitting on her table, a bottle of water with a lid on it.
	It's full and unopened.
	And we're standing.
	Everyone's at lunch.
	We're getting ready to leave to go to lunch.
	And we're standing two feet from the table.
	And her Laptop was open and it did a soft ding because a message had popped up.
	So we just naturally just turned to look in the direction of the laptop.
	As soon as we both turned our gaze, this bottle of water went from standing up and it slammed down to the table.
	I don't mean it tipped over.
	I mean, it violently slammed down on the table.
	And we just both kind of looked at one another and...
	And I've had those kind of things happen.
	So, like for instance, when Lou came, he brought a cameraman with him and he wanted to record my story.
	And his cameraman came in and we're filming.
	And his camera suddenly drops from, you know, three quarters of a battery to zero.
	Yeah.
	And he's like, huh?
	And he says, well, I got more in the van.
	So he runs out, gets some more batteries, comes back in, pops another one in, film for five minutes, and you know what happens.
	Exact same thing.
	Yeah.
	I've had stuff like that happen all the time.
	And we can wait until that.
	Yeah.
	When we were filming a television show.
	The cinema, everything, actually, it disappeared off the film.
	The film disappeared.
	You know how much Hollywood spends?
	This was like a real TV show pilot.
	And the whole day's work disappeared.
	We warned them ahead of time, and the professional cinematographers in television, they didn't believe us.
	And sure enough, we went out shooting.
	That was in Utah, in Dugway, the whole day.
	And that whole day was erased.
	They couldn't believe it.
	They were absolutely, we had to go out and they had to spend, you know, they spend like, it could be $100,000 a day when you film in that kind of way.
	So yeah, I mean, this kind of thing is very common.
	And you know, his whole purpose of the exercise, why he came, was to see the helicopters.
	He wanted to film my story too, but also to see the helicopters.
	Because I told him that typically they came over my house between 9 and 11 every morning.
	That's when the sun was at an angle and a big tree was at an angle.
	So my field of view was limited to about 180 degrees in back of my house.
	So they would go around and come out of the sun.
	And they'd come very low, very close, and do a perfect circle over my house.
	So of course, both days he's there, nothing happens.
	No helicopters.
	When we finished shooting that second day, we went to a little Tex-Mex place near my house, downtown Garland.
	That's kind of the old part of the city.
	It's the old main drag of Garland before it became a large community.
	And went to a restaurant, had a nice meal, and of course, His cameraman's camera is in the van, you know, and we walk out of the restaurant and when we walk out, here comes this olive drab helicopter about 400 feet off the ground and traveling about 200 miles an hour and zips right over our heads and straight up the main road until it's out of sight.
	And So he did, you know, he did, after all, get to see at least one.
	It validated it, yeah.
	Right.
	So, but in terms of the, you know, we were going to talk a little bit, I guess, about why you included, like, there was some reason to include more about this alien woman, right?
	Because, was it something that happened, or?
	Yes, I'm sorry, I digress.
	On November 17th of 2019, I was in this room in my study at my new home, and I was tired, but I wasn't sleepy.
	I certainly was not asleep.
	I was writing, and I was aware that someone was in the room, you know, the feeling that you get.
	And I turned to my left, and she's seated in a chair in my study.
	I know that's hard to believe, but that's what I saw.
	And I was so I had that feeling of calm again.
	I wasn't freaked out.
	I was half sedated almost.
	And what I did was I reached over to the computer and the computer clock said 333.
	And I just hit 333.
	And that showed up on my document.
	I was in Microsoft Word.
	So 333 showed up on my Word.
	And I wanted to preserve somehow a record that this was a real event and I didn't dream it.
	That was my way of doing that.
	And we had a very brief telepathic conversation.
	And I can tell you the main things that she validated for me.
	And that is that, according to her, there is an agreement between the United States government and a collection of ETs.
	You know, not one species, but several that work in concert.
	Very much like Haima Shed's disclosure on December 8th.
	It made the papers in the States, but I read it in the Jerusalem Times.
	I don't know that story, I don't think.
	He is a well-respected...
	He ran Israel's Space Defense Force and all of their space stuff for like 30 years.
	He was a rank in general, been decorated many times, and was kind of like the Buzz Aldrin.
	My friends in Tel Aviv said, yeah, he's like the Buzz Aldrin of Israel.
	And on December 8th, he made a public statement that ETs are real, that they're here, and that both the United States and Israel...
	Oh, he's the one who had resigned before he said this, though.
	Yeah, actually, he retired from the Israeli military and then went to work in academia.
	Right.
	Actually, he did put disinfo in that article, though.
	Did he?
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	And I can't remember what it is.
	You'd have to refresh my memory as to what he said.
	Do you remember what he said?
	I remember the exact words because they struck me as so odd.
	He says that disclosure can't happen until the people understand the difference or understand the nature of space and spaceships.
	That's a verbatim quote.
	Yeah, see, that's, I mean, to my knowledge, that's wrong.
	My understanding, this is from my whistleblowers and my own, I guess you might say, my own contact experiences.
	A lot of ET races want disclosure, but the government doesn't want it.
	There are some that don't, but actually right now even reptilians want disclosure.
	So that's why we're getting very close to this push come to shove and why they're thinking of doing a fake alien invasion to create a scenario in which they can have battles with negative aliens and win.
	Contain the narrative, so to speak, so that when disclosure happens, they're the victors, so that we still think our government can protect us and has some kind of authority out in the universe.
	But this is going to be a fallacy, of course.
	When things like this happen, when I read an article like that, that's why I remember those exact words, because I think to myself, what's the motivation behind this?
	Yes.
	And what possibly could make a difference?
	For the average person, for the populace to understand, quote, the nature of space and spaceships, that doesn't make any sense.
	Not to say, you know, the least is that there are so many people have been abducted and there's so many sightings.
	I mean, you could spend, you know, a lifetime watching all the different UFOs that have been, you know, filmed on camera at this point and all the material and the conferences.
	And I mean, If anything, you know, been there, done that already with many of the people out there, which isn't to say that they can't still be shocked by, you know, seeing in sort of 3D in front of them various ETs.
	It's not the craft that they have an issue with, it's the beings.
	That's where the...
	And actually, if you want to look at Rendlesham, just sort of a tip, you know, I do get all this information.
	And in the Rendlesham situation, the ETs are the issue.
	It's not the ships, okay?
	Because people have seen that in a million different ways, in a million movies, and in filming, and so-and-so.
	But it's actually the beings that shock the brain of the humans.
	And so this is where there's a problem, and that's why Rendlesham's been covered up so much, is because the beings were visible.
	And apparently, people were so shocked that they, according to the storyline, you know, you never know what's too simple and what's not, and you have to weed that out.
	But the story goes that the people...
	That were on hand for the Rendlesham landings.
	We're so shocked by the visual of the beings that they, even to this day, have PTSD and couldn't handle it.
	Some of them even, like, if you want to say, lost their minds.
	So this is at least been the story.
	This was a story within a story.
	That's never come out except through some contacts I have.
	Just FYI. Again, it's not the space.
	It's not the craft.
	Betty had told me, this entity, promised me in 2017 when she visited me that I would not be taken again.
	She said, no more.
	That's in the book.
	She said explicitly, no more examinations, Terry.
	You'll not be taken anymore.
	Well, April 16th of 2019, I'm in bed, and I'm sure I have PTSD too.
	I sleep with my, there's a shield on the back of this, and I sleep with my iPhone 6, I know it's outdated, in my pocket of a t-shirt.
	I've been doing this since the days of the Sony Walkman.
	I would listen to meditative tapes.
	Now I listen to meditative apps.
	And I use earbuds.
	And I sleep with that on me.
	And what it does is that noise drowns out all the noises in the house and I can sleep.
	So I woke up on the morning of April 16th, 2019 in a sweat.
	And completely out of breath.
	I mean, I was out of breath like I'd run 100 yards.
	And I sat up and I immediately thought because I have heart disease.
	I've had a couple heart attacks.
	So I immediately thought this must be cardiac related.
	I told my wife, call 911.
	She did.
	And they came and they got me and my blood pressure was like 210 over 110.
	My pulse was tachycardic.
	I don't remember what it was, but it was through the roof.
	And my Oxygen saturation was a little bit low.
	It was like 96.
	And they took me to the hospital.
	By the time I got to the hospital, my vitals had dropped and returned to normal.
	So, I mean, I've had enough heart attacks to know what the drill is.
	And EKG, cardiac enzymes, and a chest x-ray.
	So, they do all three of those.
	And all three come back negative.
	So I stayed at the hospital.
	They kept me for a few hours.
	And then they said, well, look, you know, we're going to cut you loose.
	You know, we talked to your cardiologist at the VA. We're recommending that you wear a halter monitor, make sure this wasn't kind of weird rhythm or something.
	And they cut me loose from the hospital.
	And I went home.
	And I felt fine.
	And we had dinner that night, like usual.
	And after dinner, I went out for my usual walk.
	I walk a half a mile or a mile after dinner.
	And I walk to the street, and I pull up the health app on my phone, and I included pictures of this in the book.
	If you look at the picture of the health app on my phone, you'll see that I woke up between 4.23 and 4.24 a.m., and according to the health app, I climbed six flights of stairs.
	Wow, yeah.
	I did it in less than a minute.
	You know, because normally if you climb, like if I climb, we climb stairs at a parking garage or something, I could see on the readout on my health app would be like a stair step type thing showing my elevation as I went.
	And I didn't know this.
	Apple explained it to me because I took the phone to Apple and I said, I don't understand this reading.
	You got to tell me what this is.
	And...
	They said, yeah, if you'd climb six flights of stairs, because on the x-axis, the axis below that shows time from left to right, that would have shown you reached the top of one stairwell, and then passage of time, you reach the top of the second stairwell.
	So you're going to have a stair-step type effect going up.
	It's not measured by GPS. It's measured, believe it or not, by changing barometric pressure.
	I didn't know that.
	Apple explained that to me.
	Apple checked out the phone.
	There's no defects with the phone.
	But according to my phone, between 523 and 524 a.m., when I was sound asleep next to my wife, I climbed six flights of stairs.
	I didn't wake up until 555.
	So...
	I believe that they took her.
	Yeah, so you were being abducted.
	Well, it's possible you're being abducted by a different race so that woman Betty or that hybrid Betty doesn't know.
	On the other hand, it depends if it's a Zeta or certain grays or hybrids.
	They'll lie all the time to humans so that it's not even a second thought.
	Yeah.
	Okay, so I'm not sure how long we've been going here, but I think close to an hour and a half, not quite.
	Okay, so I will ask people in the chat if they want to ask you some questions, but are there any maybe wrap-up comments, any change in your, like, did you have any sudden recall that you hadn't had before?
	Did you Didn't you say you were dealing with Yvonne?
	Isn't she a therapist?
	I've not been regressed.
	Do you have a hesitancy to want to be regressed then?
	I do.
	They build that into you.
	It's the same thing with MKUltra and the Nazis.
	They give the suggestion that not only will you not remember, but if someone tries to get you to remember, you will push it away.
	So that is a very strong post-hypnotic suggestion that all the victims get, of course.
	I did have a regression regarding this April 16th, 2019.
	And what happened?
	It ended in December.
	And I had it by...
	My best friend is a board-certified psychiatrist here in Dallas.
	But he's 70 years old.
	And he still practices, still has a full caseload.
	But he is afraid of COVID, which was really pretty bad in Dallas.
	So we did our first session in...
	Late December 2019.
	And in that session, I was able to recall a couple of things.
	I saw a transcript of it.
	And, you know, it's very...
	Calvin Parker told me that it made him feel good to read his transcript and that he didn't remember saying some things.
	Reading my transcript, I felt more unsettled.
	Really.
	And it didn't really say a whole lot.
	I mean...
	Well, did it say you were abducted?
	Did it say you went on a craft?
	You know, that kind of thing?
	All of the above.
	Yeah.
	But what we said was, you know, we needed a second session.
	Because of my heart, he had me hooked up and took my blood pressure often.
	And we had an hour and a half session.
	And I think it's because I... I know the guy, maybe, and I felt I had trouble getting into that zone where you're genuinely really, truly relaxed and really in a place where you can close your eyes and then remember.
	Well, I finally got there, and my recall was that I woke up and I went through the roof, that I somehow went through the attic And I popped out and I remember seeing it was just breaking dawn and there were stars out still and it was a beautiful morning and above me was a circular craft and below it the underside was dark but
	the underside opened like a camera lens and I headed in toward that And that's as far as we got.
	As my blood pressure spiked, and he said, we're going to have to have another session.
	So, we're going to have to have another session.
	So, was your blood pressure spiked?
	Did you feel like super anxiety or fear?
	Do you know?
	I did feel fear.
	I knew it wasn't real.
	I knew it wasn't like I was living.
	You were experiencing it.
	Yeah, but it raised my...
	It still had a physiological effect.
	It was.
	But, you know, we didn't know at the time that COVID was going to be so bad because he doesn't want to see me in person until, you know, he's had his shot.
	He's waiting for a second.
	I get my shot in a week or two.
	Oh, no.
	I know.
	I've heard.
	I don't know...
	That's not a good idea.
	I've not made up my mind yet.
	You should research it.
	I have tons of research on my website if you want to look into it.
	There are so many videos out there that you shouldn't ignore what people are saying.
	They don't have a good track record right now with people, so I wouldn't want to be one of their guinea pigs.
	If you ever decide to get...
	It's not going to stop you from getting...
	I'm assuming you haven't already had it, that you're not going to get it again.
	I mean, you can get it.
	It doesn't matter.
	It's not stopping people from getting it.
	In fact, if anything, it gives it to you.
	In fact, it does give it to you.
	So you're going to, you know, I mean, it doesn't mean it's going to kill you.
	In your case, you know, you've been hybridized.
	Basically, you've got all kinds of...
	See, I tried to tell people that if you've been abducted, they've been doing this stuff to you anyway.
	They've taken your DNA. They've probably tried to do things to it.
	Some of you in a positive way.
	Some had a maybe negative reaction to whatever it was.
	So you've already been a guinea pig.
	You are a guinea pig.
	Now, they may intervene.
	They...
	Whichever ones are looking after you, so that you don't end up taking the shot.
	Or they may allow it to happen, I don't know.
	But just to be aware that, you know, it's different with abductees, okay?
	You're not normal, so to speak.
	And it also has everything to do, it doesn't have to do with your age, actually.
	It has to do with, again, what kind of hybrid you are.
	We're all hybrids.
	And this is going to affect you as a hybrid.
	It's going to affect your DNA, the mRNA.
	And it also makes it mutatable.
	And they can also, from a distance, possibly actually genetically engineer you.
	So they can mutate your DNA directly.
	To become something, you know, have more proclivity to certain things or less.
	It's supposed to directly affect what they like to call the God gene.
	I actually think it may even be what I call the rebel gene.
	So it may be that set of genes that they, in other words, making you more passive, more obedient, more More open to suggestion from a distance, from electronic suggestion from the AI, linking you up to the Borg.
	This contains nano AI in it.
	I've done several shows about this.
	It's a bioweapon.
	It's not to be taken lightly.
	I thought it was suspect that they came out with a vaccine at light speed.
	And it really was light speed, because Fauci said that it wouldn't happen until April 2021.
	Well, there's, I mean, it depends which strain you get, but I mean, there's so much evidence out there.
	And they, you know, they ban anyone who tries to tell people how many people are dying from the vaccines, etc.
	You know, they disappear the information the minute it comes out.
	A bunch of people died suddenly in Gibraltar.
	It came out in newspapers.
	And then all of a sudden, it was wiped from the web.
	And I don't think you can even find it now.
	It's unbelievable.
	And they'll call it, you know, they do that fact check where they call it fake news and so on.
	But it's a lie.
	You know, this is really happening.
	So just, you know.
	Well, I'm going to do that.
	I'm going to do some research.
	I'm not going to blanket walk in there and take it.
	Yeah.
	And no, I did say that I'm scheduled for it.
	I didn't say I'm taking it.
	Because I do have some reservations about it.
	Yeah.
	So, okay.
	So, at this moment, though, sort of back to my question was, do you have anything that you would want to wrap up comments before we go to the questions?
	Yeah.
	I wouldn't mind telling a short story from the book, but I don't know if we have time or not.
	I don't want to share any questions.
	If you'd like, yeah.
	I can make it brief.
	This was one of the first stories that I got.
	I got it shortly after I put Devil's Den out, and it just impressed me so much.
	It's a 76-year-old woman from Henderson, Nevada.
	And 76-year-old women don't normally make up fairy tales.
	I mean, I spoke with her by phone.
	She is cognitively intact.
	She is, I mean, sharp, articulate, well-educated woman.
	This happened to her in 1968.
	She was married to a nephrologist from Las Vegas.
	And they used to make a trip.
	He would work like 70 hours a week, but every month he had a four-day weekend.
	And they would drive from Vegas to Reno and visit with some friends and relatives they had up there.
	And this is 1968.
	She said they would stop at a little town called Tunapa and get gas and eat at a restaurant that they liked and then take a little break and then get back on the road and finish the last leg of the trip.
	They got a late start.
	It was in March of 1968.
	They got a late start because he got tied up at the hospital.
	So they were driving at night, where usually they'd be, you know, try to drive at late afternoon.
	But this was nighttime.
	And they're on the road about 9 p.m., headed toward Reno, and they saw a globe to their right.
	This is 10 miles outside of Tunapa.
	And it was a retail store.
	It was a small, square box retail store that sat back from the road.
	And the inside was incredibly lightly lit up.
	There were these lights pouring out of the window.
	And there was a deck built all along the front.
	And they had spelled out the word Christmas in green neon lights above the store.
	And she said they had wrapped all kinds of twinkling Christmas lights all around the building.
	And some were blinking, some were static, some, you know, different colors.
	And she said, she told me, I ended up calling her.
	We talked on the phone.
	She was more comfortable on the phone than she was by email.
	And that gave me a good opportunity to assess her Cognitive ability.
	And she told me, she said, you know, I had never, in 1968, I had never seen a store devoted to Christmas before.
	And she said that her husband, Paul, pulled off the road and they parked on the side of the road, on the shoulder of the road, directly in front of the building.
	And they're both looking at it.
	And they're looking at it for a few minutes.
	And she remembers saying, pull into the parking lot.
	And he said, well, where's the driveway?
	There is no driveway.
	And he kicks on the bright lights and he knew it wasn't in back of him and it wasn't in front of him.
	There was no...
	And she told me, she said, quote, why would you build a store without an egress?
	And then they look and there's no parking lot.
	There's just sand and sagebrush and there's no cars around this thing.
	But their lights are on like crazy inside and they can see shadows.
	And she had nightmares about these shadows all of her life.
	Her husband passed away in 1983, unfortunately, but he had nightmares about this event, too.
	They went to Reno.
	They felt kind of out of sorts for about 24 hours, but then kind of felt okay and came back on Monday and She said, I asked Paul to pull over and let's go to that Christmas store.
	And he says, yeah, it's funny you say that.
	That place has been on my mind.
	Let's do.
	And of course, you know what happened.
	It wasn't there.
	And they went home and spent the week and argued about it because she wanted to go back the following Saturday.
	And he's like, we got better things to do.
	But they did.
	They ended up going back the following Saturday and drove up and back and up and back, she said, three times.
	They were sure that they covered the territory where they saw it.
	And there was nothing there.
	No marks in the sand, no nothing.
	Right.
	So it was really a craft and they had this facade basically that they placed in these people's minds to attract them.
	A screen memory.
	And then they abducted them, obviously.
	She said there were a few minutes while they were looking at this thing where she said, we kind of zoned out.
	And I said, could you tell how much time had passed?
	And she says, no, I didn't really notice.
	And she said it was really unusual that because he works so many hours a week, this drive to Tonopah was time for them to have a conversation and talk and catch up with one another.
	And she said she fell asleep as soon as they pulled back on the highway and slept all the way until the city limits of Reno when he woke her up.
	And she said she had never done that before.
	Yeah, I was driving to Arizona from LA, me and my partner, and I believe that we were abducted on the way while we were driving, in fact.
	And because all of a sudden we covered, it's like we went into a time warp or something.
	We covered way too much distance in what seemed like a very short period of time.
	Yeah.
	So they can do stuff like that.
	One of my short stories deals with an email I got from a guy.
	He and his dad were driving from somewhere to Minot, North Dakota, where the Air Force Base is.
	Nothing to do with the Air Force Base.
	But yeah, they were on the road and suddenly they're 50 miles ahead of where they're supposed to be.
	Right.
	Yeah.
	And I like said to my partner when I kind of came to, wait, what happened to this city?
	We're supposed to be coming up on this city and it just like never happened.
	We never saw that city on the way to our destination in Phoenix.
	So yeah, we definitely both agreed that something happened.
	He was driving.
	So anyway, yeah, there's, you know, This kind of stuff goes on.
	All right.
	So, like I said, that was your story.
	Any parting remarks before we go and see?
	Do people have questions?
	Because if you, you know, put a question there in the chat, I'll try to go back and sort of grab some questions.
	If you put it in all caps, I can see it, you know, easier.
	I'd be delighted to answer any questions anyone has.
	Alright, so just trying to see if there's been any questions come up.
	There's a lot of comments, there's a lot of dialogue, but I'm not seeing any specific, let's see...
	I don't know if this question is actually for you or someone else in the chat.
	Comrade Andropov, does that mean anything to you?
	No.
	Okay, so somebody may be talking to someone else.
	Yeah, I mean, I'm going to go forward.
	I'm not going to go back anymore because I can't tell.
	Oh, they want to know if you took out the implants.
	Oh, that's a great question.
	I'm glad you brought that up.
	Yes.
	The implants below my leg are still there, still intact.
	And you can see those x-rays if you go to terrylovelace.com.
	All one word, terrylovelace.com.
	There's an arrangement, a floret arrangement of what looks like bone tissue in the calf muscle in my leg, and that's not been disturbed.
	And above my leg, the...
	And really, the question I should address is, why didn't you get them taken out?
	Because as soon as I saw them on the x-ray, I wanted them out of my leg.
	I mean, immediately.
	And I went to a surgeon.
	I get all my medical care from the VA. I went to a surgeon and I said, I want these out.
	And I took, you know, he had my x-rays.
	And he was a young guy.
	He was like, hey, that's pretty cool.
	Yeah, I'll take these out for you.
	And I said, okay, well, you know, I'd like to do that the sooner the better.
	And I really insist on a forensic protocol.
	I want it to go from your hands to my person that I have in the OR so that there's an established chain of custody so nobody can accuse me of doing a switch or something.
	And he said, oh, yeah, yeah.
	I said, I've done forensic, you know, removed enough bullets that I know how to do that.
	Make a chain of custody.
	And he said, all I need is a clearance letter from your cardiologist.
	Well, at this point, I'd had two heart attacks, a bypass and a pacemaker.
	And I go to my cardiologist and I say, look, I really want to get these things out of my leg.
	And she pulls up the x-rays and she says, well, why do you want them out of your leg?
	And she says, according to your doctor's appointment, they're not causing you any pain.
	And I said, well, really, they're not.
	I didn't know they were there.
	You know, the reason I went to the hospital in the first place was because I had a baker's cyst.
	I had nothing to do with these implants.
	And she said, I can't do that.
	The standard of care in this country is that if they're in your body and they're not bothering you, they're not doing any harm, we leave them lay.
	And she said, think about it.
	She said, I got 500,000 vets here that want shrapnel out of their body that they picked up in, you know, In Japan or Iraq or wherever.
	And it's a bad memory and they want it gone.
	But the standard of care is we don't remove that, especially in somebody with a heart condition.
	Because the risk of infection, the risk of complications from anesthesia outweigh the benefit of taking them out.
	It's a risk versus benefit analysis.
	So I saw five cardiologists and got the same answer every time.
	Yeah.
	So...
	Well, what I would ask you is, are you aware of getting more implants over time?
	Well, kind of.
	What happened was, you know, Betty told me in that visit in October of 2017, that if I continued to write my book, and she said that they would not allow me To have surgery.
	And they would not allow this thing above my knee to land in the hands of terrestrial scientists.
	For words.
	And I didn't believe that.
	And I went ahead with my plans.
	I found a surgeon in Tijuana who was going to do it for me.
	And we scheduled talking about the first weekend in December.
	We didn't have an exact date yet.
	But yeah, I was going to go have it done.
	November 17th.
	I woke up that morning and I had terrible pain in my leg.
	And I had two puncture wounds on the top of each leg.
	And, you know, the implant thing was down by my knee, but I had these wounds up at the top of my leg.
	And there are pictures of them, I think, on the website or in the back of the incident at Double Stin.
	You can see the bruising that came out about 36 hours later.
	And I told my wife, I said, I think they came and they took me and they took this thing out of my leg.
	And she says, well, you need an x-ray.
	And I'm like, yeah.
	And I went out and, you know, where do you go to find an x-ray?
	You can't get one on demand.
	So I thought, you know, I'll go to a chiropractor's office because I normally look at 100 x-rays a week.
	And I took copies of my x-rays that show the implants.
	And I... You know, I didn't have an appointment.
	They were busy.
	It was a weekend.
	I knocked on the door.
	Pardon me.
	I went in and I said, I want to see the doctor.
	And I had to see.
	I waited 45 minutes.
	He calls me back and he says, where's your pain?
	And I said, right here on top of my legs.
	And he asked me to take my pants down so we could look at it.
	And he said, you know, how did you get these weird punctual marks?
	And I said, I don't know.
	I woke up with them.
	And I said, what I'm really here for, doctor?
	And I said, I know you're very, very busy, so I'm going to be very blunt.
	And I pull out these x-rays, and I want to try to put these x-rays in front of his face.
	And I said, you know, the real reason I'm here is because I was taken by aliens last night, and I believe they took x-rays out of my, pardon me, they took implants out of my leg that they placed in there in 1977 when I was abducted.
	And I'm pulling my pants up so I don't have my hands on my x-ray.
	And as soon as I get my pants up and I pick up the x-rays, he's got me by the elbow.
	He's leading me to the front door because he thinks I'm a lunatic.
	Sure.
	But I know this guy looks at 100 x-rays a week.
	So I held these two pieces of paper up in front of his face.
	And thank God he looked.
	And he stopped after about three steps.
	And he said, come with me.
	And he took me in his private office and he shut the door.
	And he's busy.
	I mean, his phone's ringing.
	People are knocking at the door.
	He said, have a seat.
	I sat in front of his desk.
	And he laid out these two photographs of the implants, one above and one below.
	And he says, tell me about these.
	He said, I need the three-minute capsule version.
	No backstory.
	And I did.
	And he said, all right, he said, I'm going to write you an x-ray for a prescription.
	But I'll make you a deal.
	I'll pay for your x-ray, and I'll read it for you.
	But you don't use the name of my clinic, and you don't use my name in your book.
	Is that fair trade?
	And I said, yes, it is.
	And I honored that agreement.
	And he got x-rays for me, and I have them in my desk drawer here right now.
	And sure enough...
	Are the implants gone?
	Is that what you're saying?
	Well, one is gone.
	The one above my knee is gone.
	The thing that looks like a transistor with the wires attached to it, that's gone.
	The stuff below my knee, absolutely still there and intact.
	However, I looked for myself.
	He didn't have an x-ray machine in his office.
	I had to go to a freestanding radiology clinic and get the x-rays.
	So I had a chance to look at him in the car before I took him back to the office and I could see it was gone.
	So I dropped him off like he asked me to do and he called me that night and he said, did you look at your x-rays?
	I said, yeah.
	I said, I see it's gone.
	I said, it's kind of bittersweet news.
	It's good and it's bad.
	And he said, yeah, but did you see what they left you?
	And I'm like, no.
	And in the back of my book, Incident at Devil's Sten, I circled the x-ray.
	There are two tiny wires that they left in my body that are right next to my femur, deep, right next to my femur.
	They're about a quarter of an inch long.
	They don't come out real well in a black and white photograph, but if you hold the x-ray up to a bright light source and you look at it, they're plain as day.
	Right.
	Well, you know, I mean, sorry, you want to finish your sentence and all.
	I was just going to say, the doctor said, hey, they don't do anything by accident.
	He said they didn't leave these things in your leg.
	He said they gave you an upgrade.
	That's a 2017 version of whatever they put in the body in 1977.
	Well, it's also that in some cases, that could be why you say you've had these heart things.
	Right.
	It could be why you've survived this long.
	Implants can be tracking devices but they can also help you in your health depending on what the ET races that are taking you decide to do with you.
	So just to be aware that sometimes, in some cases, they're positive.
	And if you take them out, then your health might degrade.
	On the other hand, a lot of things get removed and then they just put them right back in.
	So it doesn't matter whether you go to that trouble.
	That's kind of my...
	Yeah, I'm on board with that.
	I don't care if you're part of me now, whatever they are.
	Right.
	Now, someone wants to know, this is one last question, and then we'll probably have to close this down.
	They want to know, what do you think their agenda is, the ones that have been taking you?
	Any thoughts on that?
	Or did Betty tell you?
	Betty told me that there is a hybridization program.
	Betty told me that they have license.
	With the government to take people from state and federal parks.
	And that was dictated in an agreement that was signed between the government and ET. But in the 60s, ET began to violate the terms and the conditions of their agreement.
	And she said, and I said, how so?
	She said they exceeded the amount of individuals that they could take.
	And they weren't supposed to take...
	They were supposed to take cattle, but on a very limited basis.
	And, you know, that they just exceeded that like crazy.
	And, yeah, I got a, I got a, I'd love to get him on your show.
	A guy who was a helicopter pilot who went out and picked up carcasses, an Air Force pilot.
	And so, yeah, we're always with two big guys who would load the carcass.
	Of course, the carcasses didn't weigh much, you know.
	Are you talking about cattle mutilations or are you talking about human?
	Cattle mutilations.
	And he said that on every trip that he made, there was a scientist and then these two grunts he called them on board to load the carcass in a big white body bag zipped up.
	In the back of the helicopter.
	And the scientists would always go out.
	And sometimes there'd be two scientists.
	They'd go out.
	They'd talk to the farmer for a few minutes.
	And then there'd be a white envelope handed to the farmer.
	So I thought that would make a great story for Gary.
	I wanted to include it in my book.
	And he says, no, I don't want to do that.
	I'm afraid they'll find me.
	They'll do something to me.
	Right.
	Well, you know, Linda Maltenhall has really gone down that road pretty far.
	But, yeah, I'm happy to talk to anyone about any of this stuff, of course.
	All right, so it's been great having you here again.
	It's always fascinating talking to you, and I think there's a lot more we could be, you know, continuing to talk about.
	I still, you know, I still feel there's unanswered questions.
	One of the things that you saw on the ship that you had mentioned to me, I think it's in your first book, was that you saw this kind of like aquarium along the wall and that there were these, I don't know if you want to call them fetuses or whatever, little things and everywhere.
	And this is a huge genetic, and they've gotten away with...
	Literally murder, but also a lot of this stuff also was pushed down to South America.
	I try to tell people about this.
	And that's part of the deal that the U.S. military made with some of the aliens.
	So this is where you get the wall, why the wall is really there.
	It's like an X-Men scenario that these human hybrids That they created down in South America, you know, in droves.
	And they will even tell you, you know, in Mexico and South America, they could look up at the sky and see, you know, so many UFOs, like, you wouldn't believe.
	And I've seen the film of it, you know, Jaime Masson has filmed it and other people.
	So, you know, that was in a way escalated beyond what was going on here.
	In the United States.
	So this is another sort of side to the story.
	Is that like, I got four emails from women who told me that they had pregnancies that disappeared.
	Sure.
	It happened more than once.
	Right.
	That's tied to that, I guess.
	They take fetuses.
	Oh yeah, definitely.
	Yeah.
	Okay, so as, well, It's, you know, like I said, great to hear from you, and I hope that people will buy your second book.
	He's a great writer, and he gets, you know, his first book is a bestseller.
	I wouldn't be surprised if this one follows suit.
	And if anything occurs to you, then you're welcome to come back on the show.
	It'd be, you know, you're always more than welcome.
	So, thank you.
	And...
	I guess, you know, I guess we should close this.
	I try to keep these things under two hours because people don't have the attention span, so it's not even worth it.
	So, any parting words you want to say?
	Yeah, you know, I just want to say I'm not sure about this COVID chat.
	I'm going to do some research.
	I've got three weeks to decide.
	If you raise some valid issues, I'm going to take your advice.
	Oh, right.
	Okay.
	Sure.
	Good.
	I mean, it is interesting, you know, because they'd never tell you that there's something else going on with the hybrids, right?
	So hybrids are already experiencing this kind of thing.
	So you're already like on a program.
	And how this particular program interacts with the program you're already on, you know, it's kind of like there's going to be some stuff going on with that, I'm sure.
	But we will, you know, of course, they're not going to tell us what's what.
	But again, you can be protected depending on which races you're being abducted by.
	And you're kind of sole contract with them, if you want to call it that.
	If you want to believe that is going on.
	So, you know, we're really headed down a very diabolical road right now here on planet Earth.
	But it depends how you want to look at it.
	Well, things seem off.
	I mean, globally, things just seem off.
	Oh, well.
	And with the election broad and all of this, you know, obviously where, you know, these times are...
	It's extremely bizarre, and we don't know where this whole thing is going, necessarily.
	Some of us, like myself, I do have dreams of the future, but I hesitate to believe them, because they could be alternate timelines, and you never know.
	So I don't really put them out there in too much detail, but it's...
	In some cases, it could look like there can be some very positive things going on.
	But there's a huge...
	I mean, this is a huge story that happened to you, changed your life, changed Toby's life.
	And, you know, the bottom line is, I know this sounds bizarre, but you don't even know that he really died.
	I mean, you know, they told you he died, but that could have just been another...
	lie.
	So, you know, this kind of stuff goes on.
	Just like she said, you won't be abducted.
	And then of course you were.
	And I still wake up with them.
	I still can tell that I've been taken.
	So and, you know, they do tests on me all the time, like to see, I guess, you know, skin, but, you know, needle marks while they scratch the skin, they, They take a sample of your skin, whatever they call that biopsy or whatever.
	I have those marks, um, new ones, you know, periodically.
	Um, So it's, you know, once they're doing all this kind of stuff, it goes on.
	I mean, good ones and bad ones.
	So understanding that, you know, knowing that this kind of stuff is going on.
	Anyway, all right.
	Well, thank you so much, Terry.
	And good luck with your book and good luck with what you're doing now.
	And, you know, like I said, stay in touch.
	I will.
	Thank you.
	Be well.
	Okay.
	You too.
	Okay, thanks everyone.
	Bye-bye.
	We're gonna...
	Let's see.
	Is today Friday?
	I think it is.
	So I'll be back next week.
	I'm sure I'll have...
	I've already done...
	I was interviewed by Michael Jaco yesterday and the day before by...
	David Rodriguez.
	And I also, I'm going to be releasing this FESIG speech I did that was like 45 minutes long, kind of had a Q&A after it as well.
	So that should be coming out.
	They said they'd send it to me.
	So hopefully I'll have that for you.
	And there's a lot going on right now.
	So do sign up to my Telegram channel if you haven't already because I'm posting daily, sometimes hourly, intel that I get.
	I did a whole analysis there, and also on my website, Patrick Byrne analyzed his experience.
	He told his experience with General Flynn and Sidney Powell and their drive to get the Trump White House to pursue the evidence prior to January 6th.
	And for some reason, they were thwarted.
	So that's a very interesting story.
	Highly recommend it.
	Go to my Telegram.
	It's free.
	And register for Telegram.
	All you do is enter a phone number, I think it is.
	And, you know, there's lots of other channels besides mine, Simon Parks, and supposedly, you know, Trump and possibly, you know, JFK Jr.
	and others, Juan Osama.
	I did get word that Juan Osavan has agreed to come on my show, but I don't have contact with him yet.
	So I can't say when or if that's really going to happen.
	There's just so much going on right now, as you know.
	So that's why I created this Telegram channel, not only because I'm banned on Twitter.
	So there's a lot of fakers out there pretending to be me on Twitter.
	Don't believe them.
	There's also fakers on Telegram, so make sure you get the right...
	But if you go to my website and get Project Hamlet, and it'll also be on the credits here, you'll see the exact address for my Telegram channel.
	So just make sure you get the real thing and not some posers.
	That's a problem.
	There are a lot of posers out there for various channels.
	I wish they had another way to vet people who have channels so that they can't fake you out, but Discernment is the name of the game.
	So anyway, have a good weekend, everyone, and take care.

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