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March 28, 2018 - Project Camelot
01:31:30
The real Cowboys & Aliens: The Aurora Texas Alien Crash of 1897
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Time Text
Thank you.
Thank you.
It's kind of a strange combination of fiction and fact.
So we're going to try to determine which is which and it's all about this alien crash that happened in 1897 and a book called The Traveler, or just Traveler, and the two authors And their names are Carrie Trent Haggard and Johnny Dale Cochran II. So I'm going to bring them on the screen here and then I'm going to try
to introduce them very briefly here based on their bios that they sent me.
So say hello guys to everyone.
Hello.
Hello everyone.
Wonderful to be here.
Thank you for the opportunity.
Okay.
Lovely.
So the guy on the left is Johnny and the person on the right is Carrie.
He has the same name as I do.
He spells it the same.
But we can call him Carrie Trent to keep things straight if necessary.
And so that's what's going on there.
Hopefully this is going to work.
They're both on their phones, so I'm hoping we don't have too bad of a connection or a feedback issue, but so far so good.
So let me get over here to the bio.
So this is a very interesting story and it looks like the authors have decided to write a combination of fiction based on fact and And bring in, I guess they were both influenced by UFOs in their earlier life.
And it says that Carrie Trent Haggard is an antique car collector, judge, and restorer for the better part of 25 years.
Does that mean, Carrie, sorry, that was a judge.
What kind of a judge were you?
Well, I would do national shows across the country, and not only would I show my own vehicle, but I would judge it over classes.
I see.
For originality and awards.
Okay, and it looks like he learned of the Aurora alien crash?
From Johnny Cochran.
And what you guys are going to have to do is, if you can find the mute button, is mute yourselves when you're not talking and then remember to turn it back on.
That way we'll get rid of that echo that I've got right now.
Can you find your mute button on your screen on your Skype?
Okay, I hope so.
And then don't forget to turn it back on when you want to talk.
So it says that he learned about the crash in the summer of 2015 due to an incident.
Carrie witnessed...
So we still have an echo.
So one of you guys are not muting yourselves.
Let me see.
Maybe I can mute this.
You won't hear me.
Okay, and...
He basically witnessed a flying saucer landing in a small hotel and the story hit him with such passion that he and John spent the next several months working day and night to form an outline for a screenplay based on a fictional hunt for the buried extraterrestrial a hundred years later.
And from there it grew into a book and the book is now just being released I believe today if I have it correct.
And then it says Johnny Dale Crockron II. And all of this is on my website, projectcamelot.tv, if you want to read along with me and see more details.
Also, I'll link to their book if you want to buy it.
I'm reading the book.
I'm more than halfway through.
It's a fascinating story, and you guys have a great imagination.
I have to say that.
And let's see.
What else?
So he was born on July 14, 1970, in Odessa, I'm not sure what this is saying exactly.
It looks like maybe he's related to a character in the story.
He's a cowboy.
He grew up hunting and fishing and was a rough and rowdy cowboy, I guess.
He was in the Navy, became a corpsman, serving His term and then had an honorable discharge.
And after the Navy, he went back to Texas to work in the oil fields, owns two successful businesses, and he is the father of six beautiful children and so on.
So that's who we have here.
And now what I'd like to do is...
Get one of you to introduce yourself.
And again, if I can get you guys to mute yourself.
Do you know what I mean by mute on the Skype there?
Okay, so let's have Johnny talk.
And then while Johnny's talking, if we can mute Carrie Trent, then that would be good.
Carrie, can you do that?
And I'm hoping that'll eliminate the echo.
Johnny, can you hear me?
Because we don't have you.
You have to unmute yourself as well.
Yes, ma'am.
Can you hear me now?
Yes, now we can hear you.
Stay down.
Do you still have video, Pete?
I do.
Excellent.
Okay, well, my name is Johnny Cochran.
I was born and raised in Odessa, Texas.
Spent a lot of time, of course, out in this wonderful, wonderful place.
Basically, we've always said we could scoop the stars out of the sky with a butterfly net, so I spent a whole lot of time out there watching the stars and, of course, always waiting for some kind of movement or anything like that.
I met Carrie, of course, while we were a I'm away for a while, and we got to discussing the UFOs and everything like that, and I happen to have known about the Aurora incident, so we got to discussing that and comparing life stories, and everything seemed to fall into place, and that's how the book actually came into being.
Okay, now have you had a UFO sighting as well?
Excuse me?
Did you have your own UFO sighting?
Well, you know, out here, I have seen some really strange things.
Been out here where we have the lights, which I'm sure a lot of people have studied and looked at, and my father took me down to Marfa, and we got to watching the lights, and it's always just amazed me.
Okay, that's not quite a straight answer.
As far as a personal incident, I've seen some really crazy things out here in the oil field at 3 o'clock in the morning.
I've seen some lights that made maneuvers that did not be being prior military.
I was actually a Navy corpsman.
I'm well aware of a lot of the military aircraft that we have, and nothing can be traveling that fast and make a 90 degree turn.
Now, as far as did I personally see anything special up front, up close?
No, I haven't, but I've definitely seen some very unusual things out here in the desert.
All right.
What I'm going to do is I'm going to shut this extra window down and see if we can Eliminate that.
I don't know if that's going to help, but I'm going to try to go at this a little bit different way.
Looks like it's not going to change anything.
Okay, so now if you mute yourself, Carrie, I mean, sorry about that.
If you would mute yourself, Johnny, and we're going to go to Carrie and ask him the same question.
So if you wouldn't mind, Carrie...
Go ahead.
Can you just introduce yourself briefly and let us know about your UFO sighting?
Well, my name is Gary Trent-Haggard.
I'm 53 years old.
I was born and raised in a little town in North Georgia called Commerce.
During the grand UFO wave of 1973, which is talked about earlier, there was Multiple light in the sky...
...called into...
Sorry about this.
Sorry, but you've got an echo.
It's interfering with your speech over there, Carrie.
Now, do you have more than one device operating in your house there, or is it just one phone?
Okay, now, let's see.
Johnny, do you know how to mute yourself?
How to mute yourself?
Yes.
Okay.
Okay.
So are you muted right now?
Just nod your head.
You are.
Okay.
Okay.
This is not really working, you know, because, sorry about this, because I might have to call you on the phone, on like a phone number.
And maybe I'll keep one of you on Skype because we have an echo and I can't really have an echo.
Otherwise, it's not going to work for the recording.
So, Carrie, can you start off again?
Let's see if it's gone away or not.
Go ahead.
All right.
I've worked for the Police Department of Commerce for the 19th During 1970, there's been a huge...
All that had one night, and there were several reports that an unidentified flying object, flaming object, had landed in the parking lot of the Medical Center.
It was a clinic that came over the radio and talked about The same clinic that my mother worked at.
She was a nurse.
She was a licensed practical nurse and had been since 1955.
So we took off as fast as we could go to go over there and check this out because this had been a big thing.
It had been on the Atlanta news stations.
It had been in the local newspapers of all these unidentified flying items.
When we got over there, there was a very large 30-foot smoking circuit.
There was no fine sauce.
But there was a 30-foot circle with mold of material that looked like lead all the way around, and it was hot.
It appeared where something round had landed and lifted back off of me.
I was a true believer from that moment on.
And the part that I've always gotten was two days later.
It was big news.
Two days later, a crew came in there in the middle of the night and repaved the entire fucking...
Okay, I'm sorry about this.
I'm just going to have to stop you right there, Carrie, because people can't understand you.
It's sounding kind of garbled.
I think what I need to do is take you off video and just call you on the phone.
We'll leave Johnny on Skype, but I'm going to have to call you on the phone, all right?
So if you'll stand by, I'm going to hang up on you.
Okay.
If you can figure this out.
Hold on one second.
Carrie, can you please hang up Skype so I can call you on the phone and not have interference?
Thank you very much.
All right.
And sorry about this, everyone, but we thought it was worked out, but apparently it's not really working.
I think they're okay hold on a second and that's not
Thank you.
Hello?
Hi, Carrie?
Sorry.
Can you hear me?
Hello?
I'm here.
Yeah.
So, okay.
So you can hear me okay?
Oh, yeah.
I can hear you fine.
Can you hear me all right?
I think, yes, I can hear you better than before.
So you want to back up a little bit and talk about your sighting, please.
Sure, yeah.
Like I said, it was 1973.
It's actually referred to now as the Great UFO Wave of 1973.
And there had been many reported sightings by local law enforcement.
In our town and across the country.
And my father worked for the police department for 19 years and he kept a realistic brand scanner beside his chair all the time.
There had been multiple sightings over the last few weeks, but one night it all came to a head and reports were coming in that a flaming object had landed at the medical center clinic.
Well, it was the same clinic that my mother worked at.
She was an LPN since 1955.
And so we took off over there as fast as we could to check it out.
And there was no UFO in the parking lot, but there was a large 30-foot circle of flaming metallic dripping that was still hot and smoking.
And I saw this.
This was something I thought with my own two eyes when I was like nine or ten years old.
And so I've been a true believer ever since then because it was pretty obvious something sat down and took off.
In the very short time it took us and our fire truck and two police cars and four or five other spectators that had heard the announcement to get over there.
But what really got me, what really got me was two days later That's just incredible.
And can you tell me again what year this was?
All right.
And your mother was also sort of open-minded, wasn't she?
Oh yeah, and to this day, she's 86 years old, and to this day, she remembers when that happened, because me and her talked about it a couple of times since then.
I said, you remember when the UFO landed?
She says, oh yeah, I remember.
That's great.
So can you tell us why you decided, both of you actually, and let's have you one at a time, tell me why you decided to write this book and why did you write it the way that you did?
Well, you want me to go first, John?
John, you can unmute yourself there.
John, can you hear us?
Okay, I think, John, I think you're muted over there.
All right, well, I'll go first then, and then we'll catch up with him.
We, as it's necessary, John and I were together in federal prison.
There we are.
Yeah, there we are.
And it wasn't, it wasn't, it was one of those cupcakes, cupcake Marcus Stewart prison where there's no, there's no fence, there's no, there's no walls, there's no, we had Stadium City and maybe theaters and all that kind of stuff.
But anyway, he and I both had had unfortunate incidents in our lives.
But they put us together.
Well, while we were there, we became great friends.
And one day, he was telling me this story of Aurora.
And I had never heard it before.
Okay.
I'm sorry, Carrie.
Can you hold on one second?
John, I need you to mute yourself again, if you don't mind.
Okay.
Because we're getting feedback from you.
I'll get back to you in a minute and we'll bring you on and have you talk, okay?
Thank you again.
Go ahead, Kerry.
You were in prison together.
Go ahead.
So when he told me this story, we had been swapping life stories back and forth for weeks or months.
I had started writing them down because some of them were so incredible.
A lot of them made it into the book.
It started then.
I wrote a friend of mine and he sent me as much of the information on the Aurora crash as he possibly could.
I took that, I started developing it into a storyline, and I tried to think how the people of 1897 would cope with such an event.
How they would deal with it, what they would do, what they would say, what they would think.
And I mean, these aren't simple-minded people.
They're just 1897 people.
Good old Texas people.
So I wrote it in that fashion.
And I wrote it true to the story as much as possible.
But the twist is we put a fictional part in where there's a hunt for him 100 years later.
So the bulk of the story happened in 1997 and it's total fiction.
And that's what we created from scratch.
We came up with this Gainesville, Texas newspaper reporter girl that stumbles across the story in one of her weekly bylines and goes over her.
Her editor sends her over to check it out, and she stirs up all kinds of trouble trying to find out where he's buried.
She finds the original newspaper article is what starts And let me just stop you there, because that is a real newspaper article.
Is that correct?
That is a real newspaper article.
The incident was documented well, and it happened April 17, 1897, and it was documented in both the Dallas and the Fort Worth newspapers on April 19, two days later, 1897.
Okay, very good.
And so now as far as this story, are you motivated because you want to see a movie made?
Was that your motivation or did you have another motivation?
Because I think it's a really interesting approach where you're trying to show how people, it's kind of the opposite of what, you know, people say, well, you can't handle the truth, you know, the Jack Nicholson line in that movie.
I don't know if they remember it.
You know, they like to sell people short and think that they would panic and all this craziness.
And I think it's really delightful that none of your characters panic over this situation, right?
No, they're not panicked.
They're just trying to deal with what they've learned and the crisis at hand because not only did this alien crash, but he blew out their water tower and the town lost all of his drinking water.
So they had a crisis on their hands.
But they did, they were good people, so they did what they could do for him.
And they buried him in the Christian rites in their local cemetery, which is actually truly what happened in 1897.
If you read the newspaper articles, it said the unfortunate tramper will be buried tomorrow in the local cemetery.
That's right.
So then you decided to write your book.
And let me go over to Johnny over here.
And if you would, I'm going to mute you.
Or actually, why don't you mute yourself?
Because I want you to be able to hear what he has to say.
And then, Johnny, you go ahead and talk, and hopefully we won't have any feedback.
Absolutely.
Can you hear me?
All right.
Yeah, go right ahead.
Wonderful.
Well, you know, and like he just said, we took the original story, the way everything had been written out in the different newspapers and everything, and then, of course, we took the characters that we had created in our minds, and many of the characters in the book, as a matter of fact, about 99% of them, We're actually based on people that we personally know, their own mannerisms, the way they talk, the way they move.
The characters that are in the story are basically based on real people.
Using a fictional contrast, like Sheriff, the game warden.
Actually, the name Denny Choate is actually the Of course, the character Johnny is based on myself, and Shannon Ray is actually my cousin.
His name is Shannon Ray Hoffman.
And he and I were quite the characters when we were younger, I'll give it that.
And a lot of the crazy stuff and antics that are pulled off by the two characters in the book, my cousin and I actually Probably should have got our hide stand for a long time ago.
We took the characters and we really tried to base them on people that we knew.
And we injected them into the storyline.
We knew these people.
We just just create these characters.
Okay.
So, uh, you're breaking up a little bit.
Maybe if you turn off your video and just go to audio, your connection will be better because video is using too much bandwidth.
You know how to turn off your video on Skype.
You just hit the Skype button.
You slash, just like the mute button, you hit the camera.
Sorry about this.
Yes, did that work?
No, we still see you unless there's just a delay.
I think your video is still broadcasting, so that's still using bandwidth on your end.
Okay.
There's a camera.
It's usually around the bottom of the Skype.
If you scroll over, you've got a mute button, a camera, a phone, and so on.
And if you click the camera, then you should get rid of that camera.
I got here.
Okay.
Did that do it?
No, I don't think you hit the right button.
Alright, there you did it.
Okay, that's good.
Alright, so we still have a bit of an echo.
I don't know if maybe we can call you on the phone as well.
I don't have your phone number, however.
I don't want you to put it out over the air.
If Carrie Trent can, or one of you can text it to me on the Skype.
You know how to use text on the Skype?
Yes.
If you text it to me, I'll get it and I can call you back.
Sorry about this, everyone.
I'm going to go back to Carrie.
Carrie, are you still with me?
You've got to unmute yourself.
I'm back here.
And, you know, if you would call me back on the Skype, I'd love to go through these props that I have set here and tell you a little bit about them and how they interact with the story once you get in such a way.
All right.
Well, we'll try to do that.
So at this moment, what I need is, I don't know if I'm getting a phone number sent to me here, All right.
Why don't you go to your Skype right now?
Do you have your Skype still open, Carrie?
Okay.
And type in on your Skype the phone number I need to call to get hold of Johnny.
Can you do that?
Actually, it should be there.
All right.
Did you send it, John?
She should be receiving it as we speak.
Okay, so are you texting it to me on Skype or what?
On Skype, yes.
Okay, I don't see it here.
Carrie, go ahead and you go ahead and tie it in.
Can you see the message I just sent you, Johnny?
I'm away waiting.
Because I don't see your phone number there.
Sorry everyone about this.
this is not actually ideal that's Carrie I'll double-check here We're working on it right now.
We're trying to get it done.
It won't take a second.
All right.
Did you get that hearing?
All right.
Hold on a second here.
Okay.
I'm showing them that it's been sent.
All right.
It's not showing up here, but let me see if I can get it.
It's still sending.
It still says sending.
No connection, though.
Okay.
All right.
Well, you might be...
Can either one of you...
I'm texting...
Are you texting me?
I've got a phone that's connecting.
It may be because we're on these other lines.
Why don't you hang up?
I'm going to hang up on you there, Johnny, and let's see if you can type it into your Skype for me.
Thank you.
Okay, am I still waiting?
Yeah, you are, Carrie.
Now, if you can type it into your, if you can send me a message here on the phone and type it into the phone, can you do that?
All right, we're working on it.
It's sending so much.
all right In the meanwhile, I don't have his phone number until I get it.
Hello?
Hello?
I wanted to call you on the phone because the connection is so bad, but let's keep going.
So, Carrie, you wanted to say something?
Go right ahead.
Okay, well, and so that's basically how everything got started.
Yes, this was, the whole intent here was for a movie.
Traveler was written as a screenplay before it was ever written as a book.
The screenplay was written and rewritten a dozen times, and then when it finally got to looking good, everybody that read the screenplay was like, oh, you need to expand this into a novel.
And so to do that, I had to develop the characters and give them backgrounds and stories and history, which took a lot of time.
In the end, it all worked out good.
But yes, the number one, to get back to your question a little while ago, the number one intent for this is to make it into a movie.
And so many, like you said, so many UFO, alien-type movies are just so...
It's unbelievably, you know, destructive, and people get excited and crazy and scared, and, you know, it's just so full of drama.
This has a little bit of drama in it, but the storyline here is reality, and it doesn't make fun of the event at all from 1897.
It just historicalizes it, you know what I mean?
Alright.
Yeah, I do.
Now, have you had any interest from any movie companies?
Well, today we just launched the book.
The book hadn't been done but like three weeks.
And then I was fortunate enough.
I contacted No Torres, who is well known for UFO books.
And he put me in contact with Philip Mantle of Flying Disc Publications in England.
And Philip read part of the book and said, I love it.
I would love to publish your number.
And so really, it came across just in the last couple of months.
And again, I just have laid these books on my table for the first time today.
So we're getting there.
You know, I've got book signings set up at the big MUFON conference in New Jersey in July.
And one in Pittsburgh, one in Philadelphia, a couple here, a couple there.
And in the meantime, I'm going to start slowly but surely trying to market this to somebody and get somebody interested in Okay, well, you know, it's quite an original story.
I think it's the kind of thing that Hollywood might just like.
You know, they might want to rewrite you a little bit, but it's a nice story.
You have some nice quality to it, and you're a good writer.
You're both good writers, and you have good characters.
So, at the moment, I want to ask you, were you thinking that you were going to be able to get this out there because you wanted disclosure?
Is that why you're doing this now?
Did you think that the timing was right, or what?
Well, this goes right in with what I'm doing.
I'm fortunate enough to have found a producer in Beaver Falls, Pennsylvania, We're actually developing and filming a show called Wheels of the Past.
It's a historical look at antique cars, and we've already filmed five episodes in the Pittsburgh area.
We did one on the InfaCar, the little floating car from the 1960s.
We've highlighted one of the original surviving Christine cars.
We went down to the Corvette Museum and shot for a couple of days.
We did one on Pontiac GTO Le Mans at the Night of the Living Dead Cemetery, which is just a few miles from here.
So we're developing and working And the book just sort of fit in with all that, you know?
It's just one more venture for me.
I see.
Now, let me try to talk to Johnny over here.
Johnny, you're still with us, right?
Yes, ma'am.
I certainly am.
Okay, that's a better connection than we've had.
So let's hear from you then.
What did you want to say about why you decided to go on this venture?
And what do you have to say about getting it made into a movie and all that?
Well, like you said, you know, it was actually, it was something that we both had a little bit of a fever about, something that was very interesting.
We managed to pour a lot of our life stories into it to bring these characters to life.
Of course, Kerry's pretty famous for telling me I'm a bit of a character myself.
I was a Navy corpsman, and I was also liaison for the Diamondback Constitutional Guard in West Texas, which is a constitutional militia.
And I made the Tea Party circuit discussing the Constitution and stuff like that.
And I want anything that the government...
The government should be able to hide anything from anyone.
I mean, especially when it comes to things...
Like the incidents that have happened in the past.
I plan on being in Roswell, New Mexico, and trying to set something up where I can do a bit of a book signing there.
When they have their UFO get together on the 4th of July.
Right, okay.
They're looking forward to that.
Yes, and it's been a bit of an undertaking.
Myself, I've always been a bit of a conspiracy nut.
I guess it just kept my mind working.
Of course, working out here in the oil field, 90, 100-hour weeks are just standard operations out here.
When I had time on my hands, when me and Carrie got together, it was a way to keep my wheels spinning.
We put the book together, basically, like he said, as a screenplay to start with, and then he just formatted itself into the full storyline, and then he formatted it into a book, and we emailed one another, and we've stayed in touch, and we got it all together, and like I said, there's a lot of...
A lot of personal emotion involved in the book.
We look at it, of course, you know, being out here, we look at it from a very realistic standpoint, how the people would react when something happened like this.
You know, not everybody's going to run around screaming and hollering and, you know, there was a true concern for this character that crashed into this water tower.
You know, the only thing they could think of to do would be to bury this poor soul that's, you know, that's died.
And they disposed of everything.
Supposedly they threw the remainder of the wreckage down an old well.
It's one of the stories.
And that's part of, you know, one of the many things that the federal government won't disclose to anyone.
That's whether or not they ever dug this thing up or if it's ever even been located.
Okay, well, I have a question for you.
You have a scene in there where the, I think it's the sheriff who starts kind of the idea, at least in the book, of a cover-up, of thinking that maybe they ought to cover this up.
Is that true to the real story, or was this just your angle that you thought might have started it?
Well, actually, it was more of a cleanup.
Okay, wait one second here.
The town had burned prior to this, so they had quite a bit of wreckage on their hands.
So I do believe that the main reason that they disposed of it the way that they did was it was just one more part of a big mess.
And I think that it was actually just disposed of because they didn't know what else to do with it.
All right.
Carrie, I've got Carrie over here.
Carrie, do you want to comment on that?
Sure.
Well, can you hear me?
Yes, we can.
Okay, yeah, the original sheriff in the 1897 part, the Sheriff Otto character, he was just concerned in cleaning up the mess and trying to get all this excitement over with.
The 1997 sheriff, yeah, he wasn't so much trying to cover up himself, but he was under orders if anyone come around looking that...
They had, the Army General had told him, Army Colonel, had gave him the story to tell.
So yeah, I did put a little bit of that in.
I didn't push that issue a lot.
But he was under order, if anybody would come around looking, the incident never happened.
Okay, so that was sort of what we call plot point, I assume, of your screenplay and your book.
But in real life, you don't know that to be the case.
Is that correct?
Oh, no.
In real life, none of the 1997 part of this book ever happened.
We fabricated every bit of it.
I mean, the stories...
The stories of the log being thrown out in the road to stop the game warden, that's a true story from Johnny.
The story of the goats on top of the Cadillac eating the vinyl top off of the car, that's a story from my past.
And there's dozens of those from both of us in there that we just weaved into this story to make it entertaining as well as historical.
But my biggest focus was I wanted to make it entertaining.
All right.
Well, let me ask both of you this question and I want to hear the answer from both of you.
I did some research on this before I had you on the show and while I was reading your book and I found that some people seem to think that this UFO, whatever you want to call it, this was not a saucer Which I thought it was described of in your book, and at least in terms of the newspaper reporter, she seems to think it's a saucer.
But according to the record, it sounds like it's more like what we call a cigar-shaped craft.
Now, can you tell me, first of all, Carrie, which it really is?
Well, it's both and neither.
You know, we made it into a...
I described it as an oblong.
So, you know, if you're looking at it from one angle, it would look cigar-shaped.
But if you look at it from the top, it would be...
I made it sort of not a saucer and not a cigar, but somewhere in the middle as the cover represents just a single alien craft.
Alright, but at least, and maybe my memory is faulty here, but I thought that in the newspaper article or somewhere, some research that the reporter had been doing, now I know this is fictional, said that there were saucers.
The interesting thing is you did some research in your book.
You actually document other sightings and craft that were flying all over the United States during the 1800s, which I thought I thought was fascinating.
And they were called, they actually at one point were called saucers, it appears.
And so that kind of piqued my curiosity.
I wanted to know whether or not you guys know for sure what the shape was.
I do not.
They called it a cigar-shaped in the newspaper article, but that's as far as it went.
But now most of the, all those documentations that I gave through the 1870s from California to Texas, Before, prior to this event.
All those are documented sightings as well, so I didn't fabricate any of that.
All the historical stuff with the dates, names, places, all those were historical sightings.
And some were saucers, some were called dragons.
You know, these people back then, they didn't have a technical term as to what to call these things, so they called them the best they could.
They called them balloons, dragons, saucers, or cigars.
All right.
And, you know, yeah, thank you.
And, Johnny, do you want to say anything about that?
Well, I mean, you know, without being able to lay eyes on it yourself, you know, you don't have any idea.
Who's to say it was all the same craft?
Like you said, you know, through the research that we did, there had been multiple sightings in a lot of different places all over the Southwest.
And so we kind of took a grand scope of the entire thing and kind of just generalized sightings.
Generalize the one in this particular book, so as not to point a finger and say, well, no, this guy's wrong, this guy's right, because without being able to stand right there beside it and look at it, you really can't accuse anyone of fabricating something.
So we just took a generalization of it without trying to make anybody look bad or anything like that.
Okay, now another question for both of you.
I put it on the poster, actually.
My partner, Neil, put it on the poster.
And you sent me these photographs.
And I'm wondering, are these...
Hypothetical photographs, or are these actual photographs?
Were photographs taken back then?
Okay, the photographs are, well, first of all, I have an illustrator, a very good illustrator, that made me no less than two dozen fabulous illustrations as the book goes through.
But as for the photographs in there, I built a handmade coffin myself, which I have here behind me, with the alien in it and the hat that has been described in the book.
I tried to make him as exactly as the book describes him as possible, and then my cover artist took that photo and made it look like he was on the boardwalk in 1897.
So, no, those are not actual photos of the alien that crashed there.
But that's what I wanted to do.
I wanted to show what he would have looked like propped up on the boardwalk in 1897 on display before they buried him.
Okay.
So, can you tell me, just because you did the research, were cameras around at the time?
And are you sure there are no photos or have you any idea?
Yes.
They were definitely cameras around at the time.
In the book it describes the actual camera that the guy went back to his house and loaded it up on his book board and brought it back to town when he heard what was going on.
So yes, they certainly could have been.
Has anybody ever seen any?
Not that I know of.
I've never heard of any.
I've never seen any.
I just added that as a part of it that I thought that they could have done, they possibly could have done, even though there's no documentation to support that.
Okay, now, what about digging up the body?
Has the body ever been found?
Did they try to dig it up?
What's happened with that?
In 1974, the UPI got a hold of this story, and until then, it was basically forgotten.
So UPI ran a big story on a pre-1900 astronaut that crashed in a little town in Texas that was buried in their cemetery.
And people came out over there in droves trying to dig him up.
The local, the town put a stop to it and had mightily patrols until things calmed down a little bit.
He had never been dug up.
I mean, he's been there for 120 years, so there's probably not anything left.
And somebody, back when all the hoopla was going on, actually stole the original marker that they placed over the top of his grave.
But as far as I know, nobody's ever dug him up.
Nobody's ever come in there and excavated him because the town won't let him.
And that's as much as I know about him.
Okay.
Are you where or have you read or did you talk to the local people of the town at all as to whether the military had gone in there?
No, I haven't.
I didn't get into that.
I read a lot of information that was put out by Aurora.
I read all the reports from the survivors of the time when they were interviewed in 1973.
Some say it was real, some swear it was a hoax.
You know, you got 50% that say, oh yeah, I remember that.
That happened.
This is how it happened.
and you got 50% of the loan, no, that wasn't true.
So it's such a coin toss there.
You just don't know.
All right.
So I want to go over to Johnny now because, Johnny, you have a military background.
on.
I understand you guys didn't go into the town.
You know, you didn't, I guess, travel to this place.
Our timeline had been kind of crushed, so to speak.
The book was pretty much completed at the point of our release.
But, yes, with my military background, You know, like I said, we've read of a whole bunch of documentation from the people in the towns and stuff like that.
As far as I know of, there was a government presence there, but it was not a military presence.
There were some investigations that took place.
And being from West Texas and knowing a lot of people in Central Texas and stuff, they do get a little bit...
For a term, say clannish.
They don't speak a lot to outsiders.
I don't mean with a K. I mean with a C. I understand.
I understand.
And they don't want people coming in and disrupting their lives.
And I wouldn't put it past a whole bunch of people to say, no, it was just a bunch of bunk.
The town had burned.
The city was pretty much dying.
It was on its last leg.
So they came up with this crazy story to save the town.
That sounds like a really good cover story.
I don't know.
And I can understand the idea of not wanting the government.
I mean, we can all look all over the place now and see what wonderful things happen when the government gets really involved in something.
Right.
Yeah.
See, I'm not so sure that would have been a good PR ploy for a town even back then.
Kind of makes everyone sound a little crazy.
I'm not sure that's great PR. Yeah.
You know, if people didn't back then believe in aliens or UFOs or any of that.
But it is an interesting idea that there might have been a cover-up similar to Roswell and so on and so forth.
So neither of you came across any indication.
You know, we're sort of at the mercy of waiting to see if any of the townspeople talked about a cover-up or anything of that nature.
Absolutely.
You know, and you spoke of the cameras.
Supposedly, you know, there's people that have said that there were photos taken.
Perhaps if this book takes off and if there is a movie made, maybe somewhere, somehow, someone's going to come across an old trunk that belonged to a great-great-uncle, and who knows what we might find.
That's right.
It would be very, very interesting.
That's for sure.
Absolutely.
Carrie, what do you think?
You think there's a chance there was a cover-up, or you think that's just impossible?
I'm not going to say anything's impossible.
I do think that Aurora, Texas, was in bad shape at that time.
Uh, they'd had a bull weevil infestation.
They'd had a bad outbreak of spotted fever.
Half the town had got burned.
I mean, they were, the railroad had skirted down and went 20 miles to the other, any other direction.
And they were in bad shape.
I don't, I can't see, you know, a lot of people say, oh, it made all that, trying to save the town.
I don't see how that would have possibly saved the town, maybe any better or, or any worse.
Uh, I don't believe, I don't believe for a minute that whole, uh, that was just made up to save a dying town story.
I really believe that this probably happened 50 years before Roswell, exactly as the newspaper Fair enough.
So, at this time, your book is just coming out.
Is it today or tomorrow?
Today.
Okay, so congratulations.
And prior to this release of your book, have you been on radio or have you guys talked about this anywhere publicly?
No.
I'll go first, John, then you can say.
But no, this is it.
I mean, I've been working on doing this antique car show here for the last four or five months.
And so my...
We really haven't talked about the book much.
I got on it really hard around Christmas time and then I found a publisher and then since then Alright,
and...
Let me say, at this point, though, you could get some feedback as of this show we're doing right here, right?
Because we've got lots of investigators, lots of people that like to investigate mysteries and so on.
And there have been other people that have investigated this story.
Isn't that right?
Yes.
As a matter of fact, Jim Mars was one of the foremost investigators They were one of the foremost investigators on Aurora.
I was lucky enough to speak to him about a year and a half ago.
He's since passed away.
That's right.
And I sent him an email and we had a talk one afternoon about this and what I was doing and he really praised me for For bringing up the whole Aurora story and for treating it with respect rather than some ridiculousness.
I said, you know, a lot of the novel is fiction, but it's based on the historical fact.
A lot of the characters that are in it, the F.E. Hayden is in the book that wrote the original news story.
The fact that the town burned down is in the book.
All the original history I tried to incorporate into the book.
I tried to have the local country doctor do his best for him and examine him.
You know, I even had the doctor comment on the papers that he was found with that was reported in the newspaper that they couldn't read him, but probably he could.
And I tried to treat the story with respect.
Okay, well, so you talked to Jim Mars.
You know, I had him many times on my show and also speaking at my conferences.
He's a delightful, wonderful man.
So he kind of gave his blessing in a certain sense, wouldn't you say, to your endeavor.
So did he ever, you said he was a foremost investigator, did he ever write about it in the public?
Do you know?
Well, he did documentaries.
He wrote all kinds of papers.
He did a lot of investigations.
I mean, he lived there.
He literally lived in the community area of Aurora, Texas.
So, it was right in his backyard.
Well, I don't know why I never heard this story from him.
him as far as I know.
I don't recall hearing it.
Well, anyways, I wanted to reach out to him just to let him know what I was doing and speak to him about the incident.
So I got to talk to him more One time, and of course I was going to send him a copy of the book, but I got it done, because he was delightful to talk to about it, and he was excited that somebody was, you know, they talk about Roswell every day of the week, thousands of people every day, and I have the highest most,
there's actually two chapters in the book that describes the Roswell incident as this Yeah, absolutely.
So that's really fascinating.
Now, in terms of the whole UFO thing, you saw a UFO. Did you see more than one in your life, or was that the only time?
Nope, that was the only time I saw strong evidence, and I didn't see it.
I saw where it had been.
I saw where something had landed in the shape of a round disc, huge, and took off again, or something.
I mean, whatever caused a large, round, burnt circle in the time it took a couple of police cars to go two miles.
Okay, uh, what about the way the alien dies in the story?
Is that true to life, or is this your, uh, your sort of conjecture?
No, the way I have him, the way I have him, uh, die is the way he died, or the way he really died.
I mean, I said it in a windstorm.
Now, uh, There was a windstorm.
Some reports say there wasn't.
But I do know it was at 6 a.m.
in the morning.
It was like a couple minutes until 6 o'clock when the incident happened.
Now, the way I had it wrote in the book is there was a severe windstorm.
And, of course, you got this cowboy that's wandering outside of the bar that's been riding all night.
And you got this little boy out in the field.
His son's just come up.
He's out doing his chores.
And here comes this troubled craft with smoke coming out of it, roaring overhead, and it clips the windmill, and it slams into the water tower with such an explosion that it awakes half the community.
And when they all come running out there, the pilot of the ship is big.
And that is the way it's been represented in the papers and everything else.
And that's exactly the way I represent it.
Okay, let me ask you something.
Why would this craft have smoke coming out of it, assuming it came from off-world?
Because, you know, I'm sure you're familiar with free energy and all of that.
Do you think, or did you have any indication in your research that it was shot down, that it encountered something that would cause it to smoke or catch fire or anything like that?
No.
I'm sure it wasn't shot down, but it could have got struck by lightning or something that may have malfunctioned on it or whatever.
I'm not sure.
I do know there were reports that craft with smoke trailing behind it had been seen at the time, so that's the way I wrote it.
Okay.
So, what do you have to say about that, Johnny?
Well, yes.
I read the same...
Me and Kerry discussed the same scenario as far as the story that we had heard about the trailing smoke behind a craft.
I'll tell you what, I've seen some...
Of course, we've all seen some pretty wild lightning storms.
If it was a lightning storm or a severe thunderstorm or a dust storm, I mean, anything that's going to have some type of propulsion has got to have some type of an air intake.
And if it got a...
If something happened on the intake side of an engine, it got contaminated and caused it to fail.
Possibly some type of electrical problem.
Basically, the ideas could possibly be limitless, but as far as being shot down, no.
I don't believe we had any type of technology capable of doing that at that particular time.
As close as we could get to that would be some type of artillery, but even it would be very limited in range and power.
Okay, so let's see.
Kerry, were you ever in the military?
Yeah.
Okay, so let me ask Johnny this question then.
Johnny, in the military, do you recall any kind of training exercises where you think You don't remember what happened or that you were being trained in some odd circumstances that might have involved aliens?
No, ma'am.
Not myself personally.
No.
I said I was a combat medic in the United States Navy and we never went through any kind of scenario training that involved anything like that.
That would definitely involve some people with some higher rank I did one stint in the military.
I didn't re-enlist.
Anybody that's involved in something like that's definitely not going to be right out of boot camp, so to speak.
Well, actually, surprisingly, according to a witness that I just interviewed, That's actually not true.
Oh, I wouldn't doubt you.
No, well, it's just that some soldiers have come forward and the Fort Benning incident, I don't know if you've ever heard of the Fort Benning incident.
Apparently that involved a lot of relatively new recruits and they were being used kind of as guinea pigs for some operations and some activities.
So I was just wondering...
You know, you say it didn't happen.
Yeah, Fort Benning incident.
The guy, his name is Vasquez.
Unfortunately, he passed away, I think, in the last year or so.
And there are surviving members out there.
And just put a call out.
I would like to interview anyone who was involved in the Fort Benning incident.
And it's too bad that the original author who did A tremendous amount of research and really does seem to substantiate the fact that he was used as a guinea pig in an operation that involved training our troops to deal with aliens.
You can see where what was going on back in the 1800s seems to me would have given our government a heads up and certainly Texas, the Texas government, whatever you want to call it.
So interesting stuff.
In terms of the book and how it, obviously you don't want to give away the story too much, but is there anything you want to talk about in terms of the plot and where the plot goes and what you try to, what your basically kind of conclusion is in the book?
And we'll do you guys one at a time.
Johnny, you want to go first?
Sure.
Well, of course, we took something that we believed to be quite possible historical fact, and we brought it into modern times.
And basically, the way I see it, it's a group of people that have come together to protect one another.
From what they see as an invading force, which, of course, in this particular case would happen to be the federal government trying to discover something that had been buried in the past and the townspeople wanted to keep it that way.
Like I said, we were very, very respectful to the incident.
We didn't want to make anybody look like a clown.
It's not some big shoot them up, you know, alien invasion and all that kind of stuff.
A lot of the characters have a very strong personal tie to the incident.
It's kind of like the family secret.
You don't want the skeleton in the closet that they don't want everybody to know about because they don't want to have to deal with all the ramifications, especially coming in from the government.
And so they do find a way to circumvent the system.
All right.
Very cool.
So let's see.
I don't know what's going on here.
It kind of looks like somebody's trying to call, but I don't know who.
All right, Carrie, are you there?
Oh, maybe we lost you.
I'm here, and I really like Johnny's reply to that, too.
You know, it's funny.
We got so far into the book, but then it was like, okay, how do we conclude this thing?
And John is the one that came up with the ending.
And when he first...
When I mentioned it, I laughed at the idea and then I got to thinking about it and thinking about it and the next day I looked in and said, you know what, that's the best ending in the world.
So without giving it away, we had to put a little bit of a twist on it.
Some entertainment with it.
But we also wanted to make the alien safe.
We wanted to make sure that the feds didn't get him and that he didn't wind up in some underground bunker test tube, you know?
So the way the story And two, the reporter, the whole thing starts with this reporter that's trying to get her story.
And in the end, she gets the story.
She has to edit a little bit for content, but she gets the story and it's a good story.
All right.
Now, just because, let's see, Johnny lives, you live in Texas.
Is that correct?
Yes, ma'am.
I currently live in Midland, Texas.
All right.
And, Kerry, have you been to Texas?
do you have links to Texas?
Well, back in the 80s, well, I say in 1989, through the 90s in the early 2000s, I worked for SMS Auto Fabrics in Portland, Oregon.
I was the traveler.
I was the buyer of a company in a lot of respects.
So I traveled to Texas and New York and California and everywhere.
But yeah, I've been all through Texas.
But the mannerisms of Texas, the landmarks and That is where John helped me so much with the book.
He was the Texas connection.
He told me, like, the Caliche side wrote.
I didn't know what Caliche was.
Well, that's a type of gravel.
So I wrote it from a Texas standpoint.
Okay, very good.
Now, I am curious whether either of you have heard stories specifically, it doesn't matter, I guess, wherever you live, but in Texas or not, in terms of have you heard or seen any kind of aliens or any of that sort of thing, ghosts, etc., otherworldly types of events that happen to you or around you or to members of your family?
We can go with Johnny first on this.
Okay.
As a matter of fact, there was one particular incident.
I have a couple of uncles.
They're actually brothers that married my father's two sisters that worked a night shift outside of a small town named Brady, Texas.
They had an incident where some very bright lights We're basically running down the highway just above, but they were, of course, not on the asphalt.
They were up above and supposedly some some aircraft were scrambled out of Shannon Air Force Base.
This happened in the early, say, mid early to mid 70s.
Me personally.
You get out here in some of this country and you can, of course, we always say if you stare hard enough in one direction, you can see your own back.
But you get up on some of these high desert mountains and you can see so far it's not even funny.
And every now and then you do catch some lights that just don't seem to, they're definitely not aircraft, let's put it that way, because I've never seen anything that can fly at that particular speed and then make a 90 degree turn.
All right.
Especially when it goes true vertical to out of sight.
Okay, very cool.
And what year was that?
That happened in the late 1990s when I was running coal tubing for a local oil oil service company.
Alright, now somebody in the chat, I'm going to go over to Carrie in just a moment on that question, but we do have somebody in the chat asking, when you guys finished the book, was that when you got out of prison?
I think there's a little confusion there, so can you clarify that?
Well, we pretty much But then I had to refine it and work on it and expand it a lot.
The outline was completely finished.
The ending was completely finished.
Actually, the screenplay was more or less completely finished.
The book itself, I worked on for another year to expand on the characters and to put it together.
You know, our motivation, we were trying to turn something good into a bad situation.
We were trying to do something positive that would make our unfortunate incident worthwhile.
And here we are publishing a book that hopefully will be very successful.
Alright, so in other words, what you're trying to say is that being in prison was the bad thing and the book is the good thing.
Is that the idea?
That's exactly what I'm saying.
I mean, if there's one thing that we can say that is a good thing for a me and him meeting, which we would have never done anywhere else, it's coming with this book.
Alright.
All right.
Very good.
And now, Carrie, I wanted you to answer the question I was asking about family members seeing other than the one sighting you mentioned, but anything else in your family or your past or, you know, having to do with also other realities, ghosts, you name it, that sort of thing.
Nobody that I know has ever had a true sighting.
I mean, like Johnny, I've seen bizarre lights in the sky, but who knows what they were.
You can't explain it.
But I do have an interesting story from 1994.
I went to Circleville, Ohio.
To help a friend of mine set up for the Performance Ford Club of America National in Xenia, Ohio.
And he was the coordinator of the show.
So I went up a week early to help him set up the backgrounds of the show.
And he lived in a big three-story old house in downtown Circleville.
Well, the house had been haunted.
And there was an incredible story behind it with the sister and the Another sister that lived across the street in a castle, which today is called Castle Inn in Circleville, Ohio.
And he wound up in the haunted house with the elevator, and there's some pretty exciting stories he told me.
That's actually another screenplay that I'm working on for down the road.
Oh, wow.
All right.
Okay, so that sounds like it might be a horror, some kind of horror story.
Is that right?
It's a ghost story.
Okay.
A ghost story.
That's fair enough.
All right.
Well, very interesting.
And, you know, I'm glad you guys did this.
For the people that have just joined us later, this is fiction based on fact, the book.
And it's got a lot of facts in it.
You did quite a bit of investigation on sightings in that area during the 1800s.
Isn't that right?
Yes.
All right.
And so that substantiates, to some degree, it's a good background for people that are reading the book.
I think it gives it a good context.
And it's kind of fascinating the style in which you wrote the book, kind of flipping between, I guess, what was in relative modern day, which is the 1990s, back to the 1890s.
Is that correct?
Yes, ma'am.
Every chapter rotates back and forth.
You read a little segment from 1997, then you have Alright, now somebody is really on this.
They want to know when you were released from prison.
Well, again, we're not going to go too much into that.
I felt my publisher and everybody else that I talked to felt that, not to mention it, would be trying to hide it.
We can't promote it.
And the least that we say about it, the better off we will be.
So we don't really have any retaliation toward this or from this.
So the best thing for us to do is Okay, so now there's somebody asking what you guys think about the relevance before the turn of the century in the late 1800s has to modern day.
I mean, I think it's kind of obvious that it certainly is relevant.
What I think is fascinating is that you don't have the Orson Welles, you know, panic type of situation.
You've got anything but...
People take it in stride and I think it's a lot more realistic.
But I have to say that it sounds like you got that from real life as opposed to try to, you know, try to sort of force it to go down that road, correct?
Yes.
We didn't try to have anything so supernatural and so outrageous that it clouded the original story.
We tried to pay some respect to the original story.
Now, I made it the part of them dragging the craft through town with the wagon.
But I did it in mind with how they would have coked with that.
How would they have done that?
How would they have got it dug out of the mud of the flower garden where it landed and get it to where they wanted it to go?
How would they treat the unfortunate pilot?
How would they, you know, so I made all that up, but I made it up as to how I thought they would actually handle the situation.
All right.
Yeah, fair enough.
And that's great.
So, go ahead, Johnny.
You also had to take into effect, you know, in 1897, you know, 30 years prior to that, which is still, you know, almost like yesterday to a lot of these people, you know, the United States had just got through with the Civil War, Reconstruction.
Everything was...
At a pretty big low at that particular point in the nation.
So you can definitely understand why some people would want to definitely avoid authorities at least any expense.
Well, fair enough.
Now, I want to ask both of you this question.
Do you think that you were being prompted from You know, your intuition, your off planet, or were you being triggered, do you think, separately or together to get into this story with sort of an intention in mind?
In other words, Did you have strange dreams in prison?
Did you meet other people that were talking about UFOs?
You know, in other words, what I'm trying to say is, do you think you were being prompted somehow to come up with this story?
Because I have to say, the focus of it, at least in terms of the disclosure movement that we've got going on right now, the timing seems actually very appropriate.
Yeah, no, there was no influence to me whatsoever except for the stories that we shared and my interest in UFOs.
Nobody's prompted me to do anything.
I did this simply because I wanted to and I enjoyed this subject so much.
All right, and Johnny, what do you say?
Well, like Kerry said, it was done more for enjoyment, but it also gave us something to channel our minds to.
Like I said, he's very, very interested in the UFO phenomenon.
I am as well.
I'm not near as well-versed as Kerry is in most of it, but it's always been something in the back of my mind.
I've always enjoyed simple shows like Ancient Aliens and stuff like that.
Ancient technology.
I remember when I was a child, one time I watched Chariots of the Gods and that show right there set me on fire.
It opened my mind to all the different possibilities.
But no, we used it.
He was a real go-getter prior to, as well as myself.
Been self-employed for a very long time.
Highly motivated individual.
And this really gave us something to pour our minds into, other than sitting there twiddling our thumbs, so to speak.
And we reached into our own past and we created these characters.
We put the storyline onto a topic that we were both very interested in.
It gave us a golden opportunity to relive some funny things that happened in our past lives and create a brand new storyline.
All right.
Well, it's been a pleasure to talk to both of you.
I'm glad that the audio finally cleared up.
One last question, and I'll let you go.
And I do want you to stay in touch with me and let me know the progress you make and how things go so that we can have you back on the show if you start to get interest and get a movie made, etc., etc.
And also, if researchers out there happen to connect with your book and also give you some hot tips as to what might have really gone on in that town back then, I'd love to hear about it.
But what I'd like to ask you now is, and maybe nothing has happened so far, and maybe nothing will, but I would just like to know because I'm Project Camelot and we know that people get interfered with all the time when you go down this road.
So have either one of you had you or people connected to you before you came on my show today had any issues you know interference electronic or otherwise you know as you're releasing this book?
As far as I'm As far as I know, I have not.
Of course, being militia and stuff like that, I've had trouble with my electronics for years.
Right.
Okay.
So you might not be able to tell the difference.
Okay, Perry.
No, I'm just up here trying to make a living shooting a show on antique cars now.
So, you know, I'm not too worried about writing a historical fiction novel.
All right.
Fair enough.
Well, it's been fascinating, and I think the audience has enjoyed.
I can tell from the chat that they've enjoyed hearing from you guys.
So please do stay in touch, as I say.
And I understand you're going to be doing another radio show, or this isn't a video show, but you're going to be on radio.
You want to share a website or anything like that?
Do you have a URL? Well, we're doing a website called Wheels of the Past, but it's not set up yet.
We're still in the construction stages of trying to put our whole operation here together.
The name of our show and the name of our car lot and the name of our website is going to be Wheels of the Past.
All right.
Fair enough.
You are on Amazon, however, so people can find your book.
It's linked on the article that I wrote on the post on ProjectHamlot.tv.
You'll see the traveler and you just click on the name and that'll take you to Amazon if you're interested in buying the book.
And any parting words?
Let's go to Johnny first.
Parting words?
Well, like I said, we did our best to be absolutely as respectful as we possibly could to the baseline of the story as far as the characters and stuff that could have possibly been involved in the incident in Aurora.
We took a lot of freedom, of course, with the modern version of the story and we hope that everyone thoroughly enjoys it.
There's a whole lot of Kind of dark humor, shall we say.
And the characters are, they run the gambit.
From a sweet, innocent young lady to a crazy biker.
It was done for fun, but it was also done out of an interest about what the book was originally based on.
And we hope that everybody who has an interest in just an excellent fiction and novel, especially one involved in, you know, the past, you know, something, an incident like this, would definitely be interested in buying it, but we'd be very grateful.
All right.
Thank you very much.
And how about you, Kerry?
Well, that about sums it up.
In 1897, a single alien craft crashed into the water tower in Aurora, Texas.
We took that incident, made a novel out of it, and wrote a nice historical fiction version of how that may have played out and what may have happened to hunt him down 100 years later.
So we're having a lot of fun with it, and that's about it.
Okay, very good.
Now, I have just done a real quick search of Jim Mars and this alien craft, and I want to say that I'm going to put this on the screen real quick.
I can figure out where it is.
I think it's here.
Yeah, so you've got a Jim Mars documentary, it looks like, about the UFO crash of 1897.
So I found that here on a Google search type thing, Yahoo search.
And so if anyone wants to investigate what Jim Mars had to say about it, you get some curiosity going about this story.
And then you guys might also enjoy seeing that if you haven't already.
Oh yeah, I watched it a couple of times.
I actually watched it before I ever talked about it.
Excellent.
All right.
All right.
I'm going to thank you and let you go and really appreciate having you on the show.
It's been a lot of fun.
Absolutely.
I definitely want to tell you thank you very much.
It has been a joy and a pleasure.
Excellent.
Okay.
Thank you so much.
Please do come back.
Absolutely.
All right.
Thank you.
Okay.
Alright, so I'm going to hang these things up here and just say that it's really a fascinating story, I would say, and something that obviously bears more investigation.
It's a lot of fun to hear that Jim Mars was interested in it as well.
And of course, people know that Camelot goes way back with Jim Mars.
So that's where we're at now.
And I want to let everyone know that I am on my way to Egypt.
I'm taking a group with Maria Wheatley and we're all going to be going to Egypt for 10 days.
So that's going to be quite fascinating.
I also want to say that we are...
Maybe we aren't the best business people in the world, but we just break even on that trip and we will not have made any money.
In fact, we might go in the hole just a bit.
So if you're interested in helping Camelot, I am still working on my report.
I just came back from interviewing Mark Richards.
We drove through snow and hail and rain and Every kind of weather you can possibly imagine to go do that interview.
So it was quite a wild time and we can certainly use donations to keep us going and that would be appreciated.
So thanks again for watching and I'll be back next week with some shows right prior to when I go to Egypt if time permits.
So take care and we will be filming in Egypt as well.
So those of you that can't join us, hopefully we'll put together a short documentary to share some of our travels and experiences while we're there.
So take care and have a good night.
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