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June 15, 2017 - Project Camelot

01:57:02

DAVID CURTIS: UFOS & JUNG : A JOURNEY - LIVE SHOW TODAY - RESTARTING

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	Hi again, this is Carrie Cassidy from Project Camelot and I am again here with David Curtis.
	We've had a number of sound anomalies go on, but I think we can start comfortably now and we're hoping that there is no interference and you will be here and this will work.
	So David, can you please say hello to the audience?
	Hello, how are you?
	Okay, very good and I do want to say that David Curtis is someone who has been on a long spiritual journey and he is going to be talking about that journey and how it started and He has covered a lot of different spiritual disciplines in his nine books.
	He spent time with Krishnamurti and he's also done some analysis of the work of Jung and a lot more than that.
	So we're going to kind of launch from there and David if you would like Give yourself an introduction.
	Say hello to everyone.
	And David is basically just published, self-published his books and coming forward for the first time here on Project Camelot.
	Right.
	So my interest really is in meditation, symbolism and mythology and UFOs.
	And they all play into my life story.
	And really you could say my life story begins at my actual birth because I was born in my maternal grandparents' house and at my birth my grandmother I guess looked into my eyes and said he's been here before and it was many years later and I thought That probably what she meant was that I received her psychic gift because I
	was born at the very end of World War II and my grandmother had premonitions of her children.
	She knew where her boys were during the war and as a child, when I went to stay with her in Manchester, I remember being taken to a house and people were there and reading tea leaves and things like that.
	And I was born in a place called Pendleton and the word Pendle is familiar in Lancashire because it's related to Pendle Hill which was the centre of witchcraft for hundreds and hundreds of years.
	So I've got that kind of connection.
	And at two years old, I moved to Oxford.
	At the age of four, I had probably a characteristic abduction, but with no memory of the abduction.
	So I'm in my room and I'm looking at some flickering lights near the ceiling and And they're captivating my attention, and I feel my body is expanding, getting bigger and bigger, and filling the room.
	I get a bit afraid and put my head under the pillow, and then I see all these entities, but I can't recognize the entities.
	But it seems, you know, on reflection, that seems fairly typical, possibly of an out-of-the-body But possibly of an abduction.
	I don't know what you think, Kerry.
	Well, yes, you know, there could be what we call missing time, etc.
	And so it's hard to say based on sort of that brief explanation, but you could also be, you know, having an out-of-body experience as a young child.
	That's also part of what might have been going on there.
	But you had a subsequent experience, didn't you?
	Could you refresh my memory?
	Well, I was under the impression that you have had visitations with beings on an ongoing basis.
	Is that correct?
	Oh yes, throughout my life, yeah, but certainly now I have hundreds of visitations coming into my room of all different kinds.
	But I'll move on from that particular one.
	So I'm in Oxford and my sister marries an American serviceman and they go off to New Hampshire, Portsmouth, New Hampshire.
	And they're living in the housing project near Pease Air Force Base.
	And my mother leaves home and my father more or less ships me off to my sister in America.
	So I'm going to high school in Portsmouth and I'm living in the housing project at Pease Air Force Base.
	I get a job in the officers club washing glasses and things in the evening at the weekends.
	And it's only, you know, many years later, of course, in the 80s, where I discovered that the Barney, Betty and Barney Hill abduction case was being investigated at the very time I was actually there in the Betty and Barney Hill abduction case was being investigated at the very time
	And also that my brother-in-law took me on a journey north through the White Mountains to Coalbrook And then on to Vermont, where I later live.
	And that was where the hills had their abduction in the White Mountains.
	So it was just a very curious thing that I have that four-year-old possible abduction or whatever.
	And then I have this connection at 15 to quite a major...
	You know, UFO abduction thing, probably in The Interrupted Journey by John Fowler.
	I think it came out in 65, 67.
	So anyway, so about the age of 16, I get picked up by this American family and we move to New York, to Poughkeepsie, which is about 60 miles north of New York City and I stay there through to the end of high school and I end up going to Stony Brook University.
	It's called Stony Brook University now but it was the State University of New York at Stony Brook and in my third year I decided to drop out but I wasn't a counterculture person so I had no connection to counterculture I was very straight.
	I was married.
	I used to listen to Tony Bennett, go to clubs and everything, but I had no awareness of the counterculture until I was into classical music, but I heard that there was this very special concert.
	So I go into the auditorium and there's this group playing, and they play for about an hour, a kind of jazz fusion.
	And later I find out it was a soft machine.
	And then the Jimi Hendrix experience came on.
	And then what happened was that I became aware that Stony Brook was the Berkeley of the East.
	I didn't actually know that at the time.
	I didn't know it was a revolutionary campus.
	And in fact, I shared a house with a...
	A professor in mathematics.
	He was from Berkeley.
	But I wasn't aware of that counterculture.
	So anyway, I leave university in the third year.
	I leave my marriage.
	And I have a sudden...
	I don't know how to explain it, but my perception of the world radically changed.
	It seemed to change overnight.
	And I seemed to...
	My consciousness shifted...
	So that I actually saw the world around me differently.
	It's very hard to explain.
	It's the same world, but it seemed to have an enchantment.
	It seemed to be like an enchantment.
	Can I actually stop you there and ask you just a couple of things based on what you've just told me.
	So, first of all, you said you heard, did you hear Jimi Hendrix?
	Did you hear his music?
	Yes, yes I did.
	All right.
	And after that, in other words, did you like his music?
	Were you struck by it?
	Did you try to perhaps buy his albums?
	Anything of that nature?
	No, I've never collected records, but I was listening to classical music.
	It was just by chance that I went there, but I'm very moved by Jimi Hendrix, very deeply moved by his music.
	All right, because this is, you know, one could possibly point to hearing his music and that being responsible for a sudden shift in your consciousness, or at least the beginnings of a shift.
	One could say.
	And also I wanted to ask you about the Peasmore connection because you said you were living quite near that base, correct?
	Yes, Peas Air Force Base, yeah.
	Okay, and the thing about that is that a military base is an interesting site because you also claim that you do not think you had any MyLab interactions to your knowledge.
	However, you were very close to a military base.
	Right, can I stop you there?
	Because what's very interesting is until I read...
	Whitley Streber in 1988, I read his Communion, because in London, I was living in Soho, London, in the centre of London.
	Soho is the kind of artistic, it used to be the artistic centre, it's more bohemian centre.
	And everywhere you went in London in 1988, you had these billboards and With the communion face on it, you know, the face on it.
	Everywhere you went in London, you had the billboard faces.
	But what was interesting was, you know, just to give you a little ticking a box, that when I lived in London, I lived above the Tin Pan Alley record studios for like pop music, rock music.
	So they were in the basement.
	Then you had The guitar, you know, certainly the acoustic and electric guitar on the first floor.
	On the second floor, you had agents for pop music and rock music.
	And I lived in the flat where the Sex Pistols lived, which were the most famous punk group.
	Anyway, they're little things that seem to happen all the time.
	But I don't understand.
	Are you saying you lived there after they lived there or while they lived there?
	Yeah, I lived there after that.
	But all I'm saying is, you know, I was at Pease Air Force Base, and I can go, I can go.
	What I'm going to tell you is that when I read Whitley Strieber, I became aware of screen memories, which go back to my childhood.
	But I'll tell you the one screen memory that I've had from living near the Pease Air Force Base.
	So what it is, My memory, which I thought was a real memory, I didn't question it, was that I enter a white room, a pure white room, and I think all the furniture, everything is white, I'm quite shocked that it's pure white, and standing to my right is this figure, possibly my height, nearly as six foot.
	And I see this person in beige, like a beige brown, goldy beige brown colour.
	I didn't see the face.
	And I'm told that it was an undertaker.
	Now the chances that I was in a white room with an undertaker in Portsmouth is out of the question.
	But why didn't I think that all my life I had that memory of And I never questioned it until I found out about screen memories.
	Oh, fascinating.
	Okay, very interesting.
	So, in other words, you could have been abducted more than once and you could have had some interaction with even my labs or military, whatever.
	So I want to ask you, before you continue, if you can explain if you have any You are English, but you spent some time in America.
	But do you have any relatives who were in the British military?
	Well, yes, I do.
	My uncle, in fact, on my mother's side, her brother was in the military police throughout his life.
	Yes, he was in the Air Force military police.
	What's interesting is, what I wonder is, my brother-in-law was near Oxford, in Upper Hayford, the American base.
	He meets my sister.
	They go to America.
	I join them, and within a few months, they leave.
	They leave for California, and they abandon me.
	So not only did the whole family in England abandon me, But my sister abandoned me and just put me off in this family.
	How old were you at that point?
	15.
	That's rather unusual, isn't it?
	Yeah, and the point is that I had to ask different families to look after me in high school.
	And I ended up in Poughkeepsie in my final year.
	I ended up living with...
	An inventor for IBM. Poughkeepsie is an IBM town.
	And there's Vassar College.
	And I actually lived with the family.
	The lady was the secretary of the treasury at Vassar College.
	And she got me a job helping the bibliographer in Vassar College.
	And...
	The man was an inventor for IBM, and he got me a job after I left high school, before I went to college, in IBM, and I worked on the Apollo rocket.
	You're kidding.
	So, you know, it's very weird.
	And what's interesting is that those rooms were white.
	You know, you wore a white coat, and it was a dust-free area, and you had microscopes, And you sold these little modules.
	It wasn't anything impressive, but all these little boxes are being ticked.
	And another memory I have is that I pass out and I'm being looked after by other people.
	That's all I remember.
	I'm passing out and I'm being looked after by other people.
	That's another kind of memory which I can't put anywhere.
	Okay, but can I ask you, you said you worked on the Apollo rocket.
	What did you do?
	That's what I'm saying.
	All I did was in a dust-free room, wearing a white jacket, and...
	Just looking down microscopes and soldering the modules, the little modules.
	That's all I did, basically.
	What does soldering a little module consist of?
	What does that mean?
	Well, I suppose they're just little, tiny little chips.
	Okay.
	They're just little chips.
	So did you have, were you sort of...
	Building a computer or doing some kind of computer?
	Is that computer related?
	A chip?
	Well it would be.
	It would be the whole thing that would run the rocket, wouldn't it?
	I mean they were famous for computers and as I say the man was an inventor.
	And this was your job though?
	Yeah, that was my job for the summer.
	Okay, interesting.
	Were you considered to be, you know, precocious or intelligent or anything like that?
	No, no, quite the contrary, actually.
	I was very average, absolutely average, until I went to university and then I became top in philosophy, comparative religion.
	I just see this Nobody recognized any talent in my childhood, and when I went to university, I got top in philosophy, so I don't know what that meant.
	Oh, interesting.
	Okay, so we're up to the place where you're still, I guess, in university.
	You've had a complete change of consciousness on some level, and you've left your marriage, and then what happened?
	So anyway, so I'm in Poughkeepsie, and I start meeting very strange people.
	This is the kind of thing, I don't know how it happened, I don't know how I would connect with strange people, because I was very bourgeois, absolutely bourgeois.
	So what connected me to these people, I don't know.
	But I remember being taken to this house, this young couple, And they gave me the first spiritual book I ever read, because I wasn't brought up in a religious household, and I studied comparative religion, but that was just the orthodox indoctrination dogma.
	So anyway, I go to this flat on the main street in Poughkeepsie, and I'm giving this book the autobiography of a yogi, Yogananda.
	But it leaves no impression on me whatsoever.
	I remember visiting a head shop.
	Do you know what a head shop is?
	Yes, I know about that, like from the 60s type of thing.
	Yes, a kind of Haight-Ashbury.
	All the people from Haight-Ashbury, Ken Kesey and the Magical Mystery Tour, they all came over to the East.
	And I linked up with all those people in New Pulse.
	So I moved from Poughkeepsie to New Pulse.
	So I move across the Hudson River.
	I go inland about 20 miles and there's New Pulse State.
	And I try to do art at New Pulse State.
	I get bored within three weeks.
	I'm living near Woodstock in the Catskill Mountains, which is the settlement for the Greenwich Village beatniks from the 30s, 40s, 50s.
	That's where they set up their summer homes.
	So I'm in New Pulse and I'm just right at the centre of the hippie culture.
	I've just kind of become part of the hippie culture.
	And that was my life probably until 1980.
	And I lived in communes in England and that was my kind of lifestyle, you know, squatting and all this kind of stuff.
	So where does, can I ask you, where does Krishnamurti come into the story?
	Yep, right.
	So I'm in New Pulse.
	It's 68, 69.
	I've been in America for eight years.
	And I decide to come back.
	So I come back to a place called Banbury near Oxford.
	My mother has a boarding house there.
	And I decide to go to Banbury Art School.
	I tried that for a while.
	And again, very boring because I was already doing very good art on my own.
	And so I got a grant from the government and I used the grant money to go to India.
	So what happened was when I came back from America, I linked in with people that were interested in Arthurian legend and those kinds of people were really into the Arthur and the Grail and all that kind of stuff, which I didn't know about and it had no kind of impact on me.
	I read Yuspensky's In Search of the Remaraculous with Gurdjieff and I read Foundations of Tibetan Buddhism by Lama Govinda.
	I go out, I go across land and it took...
	A few weeks to get to India.
	I go and live next door to Lama Govinda and I attend seminars in his house in the Himalayas just by Tibet.
	And what's interesting is that the house was formerly lived in by Evans Wentz.
	And Evans Wentz was an American scholar in Oxford at Jesus College.
	And he was the first one to bring out the full doctrine, what you call the secret doctrine.
	So what Blavatsky brought out in Isis Unveiled and Secret Doctrine around 1875 or 1875, something like that, when she set up the Theosophical Society, which was the year Jung was born.
	It was the year Crowley was born.
	And more or less, it was the year Gurdjieff was born.
	So it's a very powerful thing.
	But anyway, she brought out fragments of the secret doctrine.
	But this Evans Wentz, he brought out the whole doctrine.
	And the four books were published by Oxford University Press.
	So I'm living next door to the house.
	I go to seminars.
	And the...
	In the foothills of the Himalayas, they're like ridges, you know, they're like ridges, and they've got a path along the top.
	And where Lama Govinda's house was on the ridge, it was called Cranks Ridge, you know, crazy, Cranks Ridge, because Timothy Leary and Ram Dass and people like that had frequented there, so it was called Cranks Ridge locally.
	But I'll go back, Kerry, and say that when I was in When I returned from Stony Brook to Poughkeepsie, I was 22, and the son, the son of the IBM family that I lived with and graduated in high school, he came back from Vietnam.
	His name was Greg Parry, and he had a Corvette.
	He bought a Corvette.
	A super Corvette.
	And he said, well, let's go out and see Leary.
	And I thought, well, I don't know who Leary is, but we went out.
	So we drive about 20 miles from Poughkeepsie to a place called Millbrook.
	We drive into this massive estate and we drive into this estate and there's this huge wooden house.
	And on the house are painted faces and all kinds of psychedelic stuff.
	And people are lounging about, you know, in the kind of LSD state or whatever.
	And Leary comes over.
	We must have had a conversation.
	And then we left.
	And I can't remember the conversation.
	But I know in the local paper, it showed Leary throwing flowers at the police because they regularly raided there.
	And not long before I went to I don't know if you know Arthur Kersler.
	Yes, I know the name.
	I don't think I've really studied his work.
	No, well he wrote a book on coincidence and he had a national survey on coincidence with a man called Alistair Hardy.
	Now Alistair Hardy ran the I'm a religious experience unit in Oxford, in Holywell Road in Oxford.
	And one day when I was in Oxford in the late 70s, I knocked on the door and the director came down and I said, well, I'm very interested.
	You know, I studied comparative religion.
	He took me upstairs and We had a short chat and he invited me to a series of private seminars with PhD students and he thought it would suit me.
	So Alistair Hardy, Arthur Kerr, so I think they're linked somehow with the kind of Huxley's, those type of people and, you know, the kind of eugenics, all that kind of stuff.
	Right.
	This survey on coincidence, I think it probably might tie into something like that.
	Okay.
	Did you ever have anything to do with Huxley?
	No, I didn't.
	But what's interesting is that after Kersler, after he died...
	The chair, you call the chair, but the department of parapsychology was set up in Edinburgh, University of Scotland, and that was the first department of parapsychology in Britain.
	It was the Arthur Kursler chair.
	Oh, really?
	Yeah.
	Okay, well, that's interesting.
	Yeah.
	Well, yeah, I'm actually looking him up.
	I knew the spelling of the name, interesting guy.
	For people who want to look him up, it's K-O-E-S-T-L-E-R. And they sort of say he was a Hungarian-British author and journalist, is how he started out, I guess.
	Yeah, he's a novelist, yeah.
	Yeah.
	All right, so did you deal with him or just his partner?
	No, I didn't deal with either of the main men because they were, I think, very old or they might have even been dead.
	But no, this was the director of the center.
	Oh, I see.
	So anyway, if we go back, so I come back to, I go to India.
	I spend six months Travelling around the Himalayas.
	And I have a void experience.
	I have a Kundalini void experience.
	Very powerful.
	You know, my identity was wiped out.
	My memory was almost wiped out.
	And I was just on a thread.
	You know, I just...
	I was on a thread.
	I was in the void.
	In the void.
	Yeah, I mean, it was terrible.
	It was a...
	In Jungian circles, the word numinous, do you know the word numinous?
	Yes.
	Right, so what it is is really that it's called the Mysterium Tremendum.
	So you're in a state called the Mysterium Tremendum.
	And it's fascinating.
	It fills you with awe, but it's terror.
	It's pure terror.
	All right, so you're not talking...
	You're not really...
	You're just talking about a preliminary sort of samadhi experience, but not a full samadhi at this point.
	You're just...
	No, that's right.
	Yeah, it's...
	What the Sufis would call black light and what the Christian mystics would call the cloud of unknowing.
	But how did it manifest?
	You say you were on a thread, etc.
	You were in the Himalaya.
	Then you came back to New York or to London?
	I came back to Banbury and I was in this state.
	I was in this permanent state of Kind of ecstasy and silence.
	I was absolutely...
	I had no need to talk.
	I was in this state of silence.
	And you could say it was a state of shock.
	You know, whatever happened in the Himalayas, it was like a shock.
	And I just was like shot into this state.
	And...
	I was in that state and I actually went into a monastery.
	I went into a Christian monastery.
	I spent four months in a silent order and I studied the mystics.
	I studied the Christian mystics.
	I came out of there, went back to Banbury and the friends were into the Arthurian thing.
	They said, oh, we're going to see someone called Krishnamurti.
	Why don't you come along?
	We're going to camp out in Brockwood Park, Hampshire, in Krishnamurti's school.
	So I go along with them, and he's giving talks in the marquee.
	So I go in the marquee, and in walks Krishnamurti, and it just clicked.
	I just, like, immediately was in the same state.
	It was like I was one with him in the same state.
	So that's the first time I ever met anybody that was, you know, reflected my own state and I can tell you lots of other things because I learned a lot.
	I learned to identify the state Krishnamurti was in because I had extraordinary experiences through him and that's why I can criticize him and Jung and people in altered states because I've entered these states And I kind of, you know, it's like contextualizing something which in a way is, you know, Krishnamurti didn't want to contextualize his own state.
	And I was in that, I entered that state and I understood where he was and why he didn't want to come out of it.
	Okay, so you wrote, you know, I haven't read all your books, obviously.
	Did you write a book about this experience?
	No, it's part of my life story.
	It's kind of in The Luminary is Coming.
	I put most of the information in there.
	But I'll tell you what happened.
	At the end of the talks, I was the friend of the principal of the school, Dorothy Simmons, and she used to invite me down there during the year.
	Anyway, it's the end of the conference, and I'm just leaving, and I hear someone call me, and it's Krishnamurti, so I go over there, and his voice becomes my voice.
	We're in this state of oneness, and I leave.
	I go down to catch...
	The bus to Winchester.
	I guess on the bus at Winchester to go to Oxford through the Vale of the White Horse.
	I'm on the coach and the whole world changed.
	Everything changed.
	But as I said before, the world was the same.
	It looked the same, but it was enchanting.
	So I'm going back to my own experience at 22.
	So I'm in this enchanted world, and we're in the Celtic Valley, which is interesting.
	But when I say enchanting, I mean literally enchanting, like you mentioned earlier in conversation about Alice in Wonderland.
	You know, I was in another level, but the world itself, the visual world was the same, but it's like it was like a fairyland.
	Okay, yeah.
	I mean, I can relate to that from my own experiences and also from what we talk about to do with Camelot is in the early days a sense of magic.
	And the magic still prevails in Camelot.
	Oftentimes we have magical experiences.
	So in sort of a sense of that.
	But there was also another time When, you know, and I'm sure people can relate to this in their own lives, you have times in which when you, even when you're in it, you think it's quite magical.
	So you're calling it a chanting, however you want to call it.
	So at this point, what did you do?
	Well, in the bus.
	I guess so, if that's where you want to take the story.
	Yeah, so I'm in the coach, and I can't tell you, it must have lasted for an hour, I don't know, a long time.
	But it was so powerful that I wanted to say to the people in the coach, are you aware of it?
	Because a lot of those people were at Krishnamurti, but I didn't say anything.
	But what it felt like is myself, my body, the coach...
	And the natural world.
	They were all in it.
	The body was in it.
	The coach was in it.
	And it was like we were being transported, you know.
	It was just like the whole, everything was in it.
	So I go back to Oxford, and this is probably in the late 70s.
	And if we shift, and my best friend at the time was a kind of aristocratic Steiner person.
	He was the one that ran the Steiner Centre.
	I got very deeply into Steiner in the late 70s, and in 1981, For the first time, I had a series of synchronicities.
	The word synchronicity wasn't part of my vocabulary.
	In fact, coincidence wasn't part of my vocabulary.
	And of course, anything like that, anything symbolic, synchronistic in the Krishnamurti circles, that was taboo.
	I mean, no, that was absolutely taboo.
	Anything like that, magic, anything like that.
	Well, just out of curiosity, why is that?
	Krishnamurti believes that the state he's in has nothing to do with anything else.
	It's like a private state and there's no path to it.
	You don't practice anything.
	There's no good studying books and knowledge or anything like that.
	And he says it either happens to you or it doesn't.
	And of course it did happen to me.
	Okay, I don't see it as exclusionary of this other thing that you're talking about.
	In other words, you know, but whatever, you know, perhaps the idea of words and, again, these structures that we were talking about earlier may be something that he's trying to escape, you know, get away from, and so on and so forth.
	But, okay, From here, then what did you do at that point?
	I mean, you're having sort of an other world, what we would consider in this time with the language that I use, an otherworldly type of experience.
	So you came down off of that, I assume, and then what happened?
	I would say through the 70s, through the late 60s, 70s, through the 70s, I was in a kind of Satori, but I didn't actually, I didn't, how can I say, for some reason or another, I didn't label it.
	I was in it, but I didn't label it.
	I didn't identify with it.
	And of course, Krishnamurti was the kind of master.
	So when I realized he was in the same state, I could never compare myself to him because I was very young and I wasn't mature.
	And, you know, around that circle, you would never say, oh, I'm in the same state as Krishnamurti.
	You'd never ever say that.
	Okay, okay.
	So...
	So I want to go...
	What's interesting, Kerry, is that I come out of...
	I'm in the commune scene until 76, I come in, I squat in Oxford, I open up a squat in Oxford, and then I meet these people, the three people living together.
	I stay with them for a while.
	I get a room in the same street in North Oxford, which is the academic, all the dons and professors live there, lovely big Victorian houses.
	So I move into this house, and it's the house of Lawrence of Arabia.
	Oh, fabulous.
	Right, so I'm in the house, this big Victorian house, and above my stained glass window is a blue plaque.
	And the blue plaque, when they put a blue plaque on the house, it commemorates a famous person, like a, you know, if you're Mozart or somebody, or Beethoven, you know, you put a plaque.
	So there was a plaque above my door, and it was T.E. Lawrence, Lawrence of Arabia.
	Right.
	So I'm sitting in the dark.
	I love to sit in the dark.
	So I'm sitting in the dark.
	I never draw the curtains.
	Even now I don't even have curtains in my room.
	So I'm sitting looking out at the garden and I'm looking at the garden and 300 feet in the distance there are trees and they're about 30 feet tall.
	So I'm sitting very deep I don't meditate, I don't do anything, but I'm very deep.
	I sit there and this light appears above the trees, this light.
	It's a point of light.
	I look at it and I'm transfixed.
	I'm not hypnotised, you know, I'm not going anywhere, but I'm transfixed by this light in the sky.
	I'm very curious.
	I don't know anything about UFOs.
	I've never read anything on UFOs.
	In fact, the eight years in America, I never ever talked to anybody about UFOs, never watched films.
	So I literally knew nothing about UFOs, but I saw this light.
	It penetrated into my brain through my left eye.
	It wasn't like I couldn't see the beam of light, but it penetrated through Deep inside my brain or psyche.
	And I was very interested.
	I just sat there very interested.
	And it was quite intrusive, but I wasn't afraid.
	I didn't feel anything negative.
	But when it moved, I saw the light move to my right, and it moved from my left eye to my right eye, deep inside me.
	And I'm a very private person, so nothing's ever gone inside me like that.
	And I then became very cautious.
	I thought, no, I don't want to go on with this.
	And I just got up and drew the curtains.
	But that was my first UFO type of thing.
	It was very powerful.
	It was very memorable.
	But I never had a negative feeling about it, even though I felt slightly uncomfortable, slightly afraid.
	But I didn't feel negative at all.
	Okay.
	So, what happened next in your travels?
	I mean, at some point it sounds like, correct me if I'm wrong, did you study, you know, the occult?
	You study Aleister Crowley, etc.?
	No, nothing.
	In the 70s, Krishnamurti, no books, nothing.
	I didn't study anything, nothing.
	And then I studied Steiner in the late 70s.
	I started to write plays and one of the plays came true.
	All the characters, the marriage breakdown.
	I wrote these plays and I submitted them to the local playhouse, Oxford Playhouse.
	But this play came true and I entered another world.
	It was like I was living on my own.
	My friends at the University of Oxford, they'd left town and everything.
	So I was starting afresh.
	I didn't know anybody.
	My family's there, but I didn't know anybody.
	I had this room in Oxford, in the middle of Oxford.
	And I started to...
	I have all these synchronicities.
	I kept a journal...
	And I wrote these plays, and as I say, one of the plays came true, and I met all these people, all the characters in the play I met, and one of them became my best friend.
	And he got me this room that belonged to one of the colleges, St.
	John's College, and that's where the powerhouse, that house was like a powerhouse.
	And when I went, it was only...
	A hundred yards from the Ashmolean Museum.
	This might interest you because you mentioned Nefertiti before.
	Elias Ashmole, that set up the Ashmolean Museum, the first public museum in the country, he was the founder of the Royal Society, the Invisible College.
	He wrote...
	He was a Rosicrucian and he wrote books on John Dee.
	And John Dee is an Elizabethan astrologer at the court of Elizabeth I. So I'm living right next to that Ashmolean Museum.
	As a boy, about eight years old in those days, in the 50s, I was allowed to go anywhere in Oxford.
	My parents let me go anywhere.
	And I loved to go to the Ashmolean Museum.
	And my favourite room was the Egyptian room.
	But it was only...
	Quite recently, actually, you know, well, I would say, you know, fairly recently, found out that the main statues, the main, the kind of rooms dedicated to are Natan.
	So the main statues in there were Natan, which is quite interesting.
	Yes.
	Well, it sounds fascinating.
	Okay.
	Right.
	So I'm living near there.
	I'm living in this house, and as you go through the front door, there are two black pillars.
	So on either side of the door, there are two black pillars.
	At that time, it meant nothing to me.
	I wasn't into magic.
	I didn't know anything about that.
	But it was two black pillars.
	So I'm living in a garret on the roof.
	I'm living in this garret with a very big kind of studio window.
	And you look through the window and you see across Worcester College to a row of hills and because Oxford is in a valley and you've got the Thames River on the west and you've got the Charwell River on the east and they meet near Christchurch College.
	So anyway, I'm All these things, incredible things are happening to me in that room, and for the first time I'm starting to paint big pictures, so I put all these pictures around, almost like a kind of, like in the pyramid text, you know, all these pictures around in my room.
	So one day I'm sitting in the day, and I've got to also say that, have you heard of the radionics?
	Yes.
	Well, as you look out of my window, you look out straight ahead, and that's where the laboratory is, the Delaware Laboratory for Radionics.
	And I had actually visited there a few years before, and I also...
	I was part of the religious experience unit.
	I visited the radionics.
	I was into healing.
	I was into all those kinds of things.
	But I also used to help out Celia Green in her Institute for Psychophysical Research.
	And she belonged to the Society for Psychical Research.
	And I lived there.
	Later on, I would live there for a year with my friend, who's now Professor Roderick Mayne.
	He's a scholar in Jungian synchronicity.
	But anyway, I used to help out in Celia Green's house.
	And she coined the term lucid dream.
	So she's very famous.
	She coined it.
	And she did all the researching out of the body.
	I mean, she was the seminal figure in that field.
	I mean, she's like a seminal figure.
	So anyway, I'm in this house in about 84.
	I'm looking out over these hills and suddenly I'm aware of something coming over the hill.
	That's the only way I can say I knew that there was some power, some power coming over the hill, and I was absolutely transfixed.
	You know, I just like focused.
	And I remember it was slightly to the left.
	I was looking just slightly to the left.
	And I had no visual image, but I knew that it came over the hill and it was coming towards the house.
	Now, this power, I would say...
	It's probably connected to Krishnamurti in some way, but also to the UFO phenomenon.
	And I can verify that by some other things I'll tell you.
	So this power's coming over the hill, and it's not focused.
	It's like the whole thing, like the whole space outside is like this power.
	And it's like a tidal wave that's coming closer and closer to the room.
	And I knew that if it hit the house...
	I'd be wiped out.
	You know, just like wiped out my consciousness.
	And I've never ever had an out of the body.
	I've never let go of my consciousness, which is very interesting.
	And that goes back to when I was four years old.
	From that moment on, I've always been afraid of letting go.
	That's always been a part of my psychology.
	So I've never actually let go.
	Right.
	And I thought if that energy came into that room, I'd be wiped out.
	Now, what happened in that room was I kept these journals and it was all handwritten and I took it along to the Oxford University Press and I handed it in and said, would you be interested in publishing this?
	And within a few days I got a letter from the From the top editor, the chief editor, not just the ordinary editor, but the chief of the whole university press.
	And I went there, and he was very impressed with what I wrote, because it was a synchronistic spiritual journal of my time in Oxford, all the strange events.
	But anyway, so I was quite happy about that.
	So that was happening for me.
	And so I'm...
	One day, one evening, I'm in the room and I thought, oh, I look outside.
	So spontaneously I looked outside.
	I looked to the left and there was a point of light.
	And then I looked to the right and there was another point of light in the cloudy sky.
	So it was just this grey sky and two points of light.
	I didn't think anything of it.
	I didn't kind of worry, think about it.
	I wrote a play about...
	Two UFOs.
	And this was nothing to do with those lights.
	This was just maybe just before that.
	But I wrote a play about two UFOs.
	And the two UFOs were having a dialogue between themselves.
	So I imagine the UFOs as like thought machines.
	And they were having telepathic conversation.
	And I wrote it down.
	I wouldn't have called it channeling.
	I was just writing this play.
	I wrote all these plays.
	And so I wrote the play and I was so disturbed by that manuscript.
	I was so disturbed by it that I got rid of it.
	It was so powerful.
	It was so disturbing to me that I got rid of it.
	Okay, but what was the dialogue about?
	What did the two UFOs talk to each other?
	What was so disturbing?
	I don't know, Kerry.
	I think it was...
	I wrote something else and I felt I was tuning in to some...
	You know, the idea of power.
	But something more powerful than me and my psyche kind of reacted.
	That's all I can say.
	It wasn't me personally, but my psyche, like when I was a child, reacted to the power.
	And I think, you know, like the void is power.
	You know, you can say what you like, but there's a level of...
	I've experienced levels where there's something much more powerful than you.
	And that's what I felt.
	And I also wrote a book, two books.
	One was...
	A slave's life, a slave's life in ancient Greece.
	So I imagine this kind of young man becoming initiated in ancient Greece, philosophical, it's very philosophical and romantic.
	Then I wrote a book called A Slave's Death.
	So I imagine this slave dying and going to another dimension, coming back to California, I don't know why I chose California.
	Coming back to California, sitting on a bench with this old man.
	And then the journey is that it ends up where the character goes into this mountain and discovers this crystal.
	And I got so frightened by that manuscript that I went out into the street and just threw it in the garbage can.
	I was so afraid of it.
	Well, let me ask you here whether or not, you know, you have investigated your past lives and that sort of thing.
	I haven't.
	No, I'm afraid of hypnosis, actually.
	I see.
	So, well, I mean, someone would say to you that that's very possibly a kind of a past life recall.
	So, that's very interesting.
	All right.
	So, I'm in this room, and as I say, I call in...
	I contact the Society for Cycle Research.
	A very old man comes to investigate.
	He said, there's definitely things going on here.
	And he talked to me.
	And he was a retired man.
	He was doing a PhD in Oxford in religion.
	A retired man.
	And he was quite impressed with me as a person.
	And he invited me to meet his wife.
	And what was interesting is, his house...
	Was on the hill where that power was coming over, you know, the radionics.
	His house happened to be on Balls Hill, right where that power was coming over.
	Very, very strange.
	But I didn't accept that.
	I didn't go along.
	I didn't go to his house or anything.
	So in that house, what was interesting was, before I lived there, I was homeless, and this...
	These kind of alternative people, let me stay in their house.
	Now that person, he went to the London Film School.
	He was a friend of Arthur C. Clarke's.
	He used to visit Arthur C. Clarke in London.
	And I lived with him.
	And then when I moved into this house, He gave me 2010, Arthur C. Clarke's 2010.
	I remember this.
	And again, I never connected the dots because so much was happening there that I was, you know, the radio was on and I was reading 2010 and I read the word flyby and then it was said on the radio absolutely at the same time.
	I'd never heard the word flyby.
	But anyway, that was just a little synchronicity.
	But he knew Arthur C. Clarke quite well.
	Okay, so what significance did that have to you?
	Were you familiar with Arthur C. Clarke's work?
	No, I wasn't.
	Only the film.
	I wasn't aware of Arthur C. Clarke in any kind of negative sense.
	I didn't have any...
	Oh, well, I don't mean negative.
	I simply mean as an author, you know, Childhood's End.
	Have you read his books?
	No, I hadn't, no.
	Oh, okay.
	I see.
	Okay.
	I know he's implicated, isn't he, after C. Clarke and the Nazis, so they say, and all that kind of thing.
	Well, actually, I mean, that's, you know, you would have to say he was possibly an Illuminati member, but nonetheless, he wrote some excellent sci-fi, and Childhood's End is a very...
	Forward-looking basically treatise on what could happen to humanity if a group of beings came here and said that they would deliver peace on this planet and take care of all our problems in that way.
	What would happen to humanity in our territory?
	So it's a very important work, in my opinion.
	Highly recommend it.
	It's quite a short, you know, a small book.
	Childhood's End is what it's called.
	Anyway, so, no, I don't have a negative view of Arthur C. Clarke.
	In fact, we were told, we tried to interview him before he died, and he was said by a certain whistleblower of ours that he knew a lot of the secrets.
	Oh, right.
	I see, yeah.
	Yeah, so he would be a fascinating person to connect with.
	Anyway, he has died, obviously.
	Yeah, so this particular person, he actually, I went with him to London once, and he went around the film studios.
	His father was in filming and everything.
	Right.
	And we ended up going to the Colony Club.
	You probably don't know the Colony Club.
	But it's in Soho.
	It's a very famous club.
	But it's a tiny, dirty little room.
	It's a dirty little room, really.
	But the big thing about the Colony Club was that you know the artist Francis Bacon?
	Yes.
	Yeah, well, he's the English artist.
	He's a surrealist, more or less a surrealist.
	He's the famous, most famous English artist, really, of the late 20th century.
	Anyway, that was his place.
	That's where he used to go.
	Anyway, that was just a little connection there.
	So I'm in this room and I'm asleep and I wake up, but I don't wake up in my body.
	I'm aware of my body on the bed, but I'm in the fetal position.
	I'm like in the fetal position and I experience a hole in the top of my head.
	So I'm in the fetal position, like a baby.
	It did feel like a fetus.
	I actually felt like a actual fetus.
	And there was a hole, perfect hole, about the size of, say, I don't know in America, but an old penny, maybe, say, an inch and a quarter in diameter, a hole in the top of my head.
	And this energy, this pure energy, so it's like an energy, it's just pure energy, It's going in and out at the same time, so it's coming in and going out, but it's like one movement.
	It's a very strange sensation of coming in and coming out.
	I go through the hole, my perception, my awareness goes out through the hole, and I don't know if you know the picture, it's in Jung's Flying Saucers, and it's an anonymous woodcut from the 16th century or earlier, medieval, And it's a thing you must have seen.
	It shows this pilgrim pushing his head through the sky.
	So he's on the earth and the planets and everything.
	And then he pushes his head through the sky into the stars.
	It's a very famous picture.
	It's used on books and everything.
	All right.
	I don't know if you know that.
	It's just his head being pushed through.
	It's not coming to mind.
	I can look it up.
	But go ahead.
	Yeah, so it's a typical picture, and that's the picture on the front of My Luminary is Coming, the trilogy.
	I put it on each of my books.
	Are you talking...
	All right.
	Is it this one with the stars?
	Yes, it's that one with the pilgrim.
	It's the pilgrim pushing his head into another dimension.
	All right.
	Well, we've got that on your banner, which...
	In the background.
	I see.
	Right, so I push my...
	By not saying I pushed my head through, my awareness went out of there and I looked and it was like an infinite sea.
	All I can say was like an infinite sea of like blue and white waves.
	It was just like waves of white and blue going for infinity and it was the most remarkable feeling.
	And when I came back into my body or into the body, A shaft of light shot out of my forehead.
	A shot of light.
	So I liken that to the horn of the unicorn, the spark of the unicorn.
	But much later, I saw a statue of Brahma, the Hindu Brahma, the god of creation.
	And they have this thing coming out of his forehead, identical to what I experienced, which is quite interesting.
	Okay.
	Well, I mean, do you feel, you know, certainly you've studied young, so do you feel that you're connecting with the universal mind?
	Well, I see that as a thousand-petaled lotus.
	So I can go back now because I've missed one little thing out which might interest the listeners.
	So one night, I guess I... I go out to the room in the middle of the night, come back, and I'm walking through like stars.
	As I enter my room, it's like I'm walking through the stars.
	I'm not sure if it's the same night, but I wake up in the middle of the night, and I don't experience myself as out of the body.
	It probably isn't out of the body, because I'm looking down at my body, But there's another figure lying over my body in perfect formation.
	So there's my body on the bed, and there's this figure, and then I'm above that, kind of looking down.
	I'm not aware of the body.
	And that figure was, I don't want to say in any particular way, but you know, you see...
	Pictures of the demonic, you know, you see the devil, the demonic.
	Sure.
	Like a kind of reptile, right?
	Kind of like staining reptile.
	Yes.
	Like the serpent in the Garden of Eden, that kind of...
	It's this...
	What Steiner calls the guardian of the threshold.
	But anyway, it's this most beautiful, absolutely beautiful...
	Animal.
	I can say an animal.
	And it doesn't bother me.
	I don't feel any reaction.
	I don't know what it is.
	I don't know anything about reptilians, UFO. I haven't read any books at that time.
	I haven't read any books at that time.
	So I didn't really know anything about the UFO culture.
	But this entity was lying.
	It was kind of grey...
	Like a lizard, you know, as a child.
	Well, it doesn't sound very beautiful.
	It sounds horrible.
	No, no, it's a beautiful being.
	Really?
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	It's a beautiful being.
	All right.
	And you're looking, you're outside of your body, you're looking back at your body, and this thing is...
	Is laying on top of you.
	Is that correct?
	Yeah, exactly.
	Yeah, exactly.
	Sounds incredibly diabolical.
	Okay, but to you this was fine.
	This was fine?
	Yeah.
	See, the Kundalini opens the third eye.
	Yes.
	From the third eye to the seventh chakra and then you go out through the hole in the head.
	So that's the third eye.
	Because in lizards, you know, zoologically in lizards, there is a third eye, it's atrophied.
	And that's why the dragon and the Kundalini and the serpent across the world in Aboriginal, Egyptian, that's the third eye.
	The dragon has the key, has the third eye.
	The B666, you can call it the Scarlet Dragon in Revelation, it has the third eye.
	And that's connected to the Scarlet Woman.
	So in Revelation, you see...
	Well, yes.
	I'm aware of all those links.
	And actually, I do talks on this sort of thing.
	But it doesn't quite answer the question as to why you thought that was a beautiful being or whatever.
	Because I love animals.
	All right.
	All right.
	I don't have any...
	You know, if I see any animal, I think they're beautiful.
	All right, fair enough.
	But I would just like to get back to the moment.
	So you're looking at your body.
	You think you're outside your body, but you're looking back at your body.
	Is that correct?
	Yeah, I'm above.
	I'm above.
	I'm slightly above.
	So I'm looking down, and there's this figure over my body, yes.
	All right.
	And so what happened after that?
	Well, nothing particular, just, you know, that was the end, really.
	Oh, really?
	And so, did you wake up the next day, everything was fine?
	Yeah, I've never had any negative.
	In fact, the whole of my life, I've been in a car crash, I've lost all my family, all my families died, best friends have died.
	I've never, ever felt negative about death.
	And I don't have any fear of the unknown.
	I don't have any fear of anything like that.
	The only fear I have is letting go.
	Well, I think there's a contradiction there, to be honest with you, because in a sense, that's exactly what death is.
	So if you have a fear of the unknown, in a sense, you have a fear of death.
	But nonetheless, it's an interesting philosophical discussion that we could have on that.
	I'm not sure we want to do that here and now at this exact moment, but...
	You know, it's going to be curious, I think, for my audience to hear your reaction to this.
	Now, of course, you were doing this.
	What year was this when this happened?
	1984 and 5.
	And you still had very little knowledge of anything to do with aliens or UFOs, correct?
	Nothing.
	I had absolutely nothing, no.
	And so what about Steven Spielberg's?
	I don't know what year Steven Spielberg's Close Encounters of the Third Kind came out.
	Do you know?
	I don't know, but I never watched television.
	I never went to films.
	You never saw Close Encounters of the Third Kind?
	Oh, I did much later, yeah.
	Oh, but not then?
	Much later, no, no, much later.
	This was all in the 90s.
	I started watching, you know, films and things a bit in the 90s.
	All right.
	So at that point, what happens to your story?
	Where do you go from there?
	Well, I meet who's my best friend now, 30 years.
	I meet Roderick Main, Professor Roderick Main.
	And we go and live in Celia Greens Institute for a year.
	So I go in Celia Greens Institute and study out of the body, all of that in depth.
	And what was curious when I was living there in 89-90 is that the BBC television gave her a call because she's very famous in England in the paranormal.
	They gave her a call and they wanted to know her opinion on these UFOs and aliens that were appearing in Russia.
	Now, this lady had no knowledge whatsoever of UFOs, but she went on anyway.
	Actually, she went on the radio because Oxford Radio Station was connected to the BBC. She didn't go on television, but she more or less said they were apparitions.
	Anyway, that was just a curious thing that happened while we were there.
	We were contacted about that.
	Okay.
	Okay, fair enough.
	So you spent quite a bit of time studying with her, is that the idea?
	Yeah, I went in depth into all of that.
	Okay, and what about...
	Wait, wait, wait, wait, slow down.
	What about Robert Monroe?
	Had you heard about the Monroe Institute?
	Yeah, I was there, yes.
	Yeah, I did.
	I knew about the Robert Monroe Institute, and I read most of the literature in Out of the Body and that kind of thing.
	Okay, and so what about, were you familiar with people like Ingo Swann and remote viewing?
	Did you ever hear about that?
	Yeah, I've been aware of all of that there, yeah.
	That's when I became aware of all of that.
	I see.
	And you must have had out-of-body experiences during that time than if you were studying it.
	No, I've never had.
	You know, when I say I woke up...
	Oh, no.
	So you studied it, but you never had an out-of-body during that time?
	No.
	Wow.
	And so anyway, in 19...
	What happened was we went to live in Soho a year before that.
	And we just had incredible synchronicities in Soho.
	Most incredible.
	And Roderick had just finished his classics degree at Oxford.
	He was really top in Oxford.
	We got along really well mentally.
	We're really like on the same level.
	And we went to London.
	And as I say, I became aware of Strieber's book and everything like that.
	And...
	Synchronicity.
	And Roderick decided to study Jung and synchronicity, so he got in a course in PhD in Lancaster, up near Manchester where I was born and where he grew up.
	And we moved up there, and he was studying at the university.
	One evening, quite spontaneously, I'd never looked for UFOs.
	They weren't really on my, they weren't part of my agenda or anything like that.
	And I just got this feeling to go out in the back garden.
	It was a very cold night, winter night.
	And I walk out into the garden and the only constellation right above me is Orion, right?
	Very powerful, very, very big Orion.
	And then I notice something in the corner of my eye above by the roof.
	So I just look up and only 10 feet away there's this ball.
	You know the size of a basketball.
	So you've got the size of a basketball and it's a red orb.
	Okay.
	So the red orb appears just at the roof of the house, only 10 feet away.
	And it's standing there, and you know, like a microphone, this mesh.
	You've got this mesh.
	So it's this orb that's like a mesh.
	It's a deep red mesh.
	Okay, that's very interesting, yes.
	It's hanging there near the roof, and it moves like second by second by second.
	So I just stand there looking at it, and it goes about 10 feet, and it just disappears.
	So what year was that?
	That was about 94, 95.
	94, 95.
	But what was quite interesting was that a couple...
	I would say not long before that...
	In a vision, I won't say a dream, you know, a dream is like a fluid film, like a dream is usually you're kind of in a kind of journey or you're moving around.
	I was in a vision and I thought a child was next to me, a child, and then I find myself at the top of this rocky mountain, really, really high up in the sky, This rocky mountain.
	And there's a being standing in front of me.
	And it's, you know, like a wizened old man.
	You know, like with the lines in his face.
	It was a kind of yellowy parchment.
	You know, like a dry parchment.
	Right.
	He had a bald head.
	He was about four foot six.
	Something like that.
	And I thought he looked lovely.
	You know, very interesting.
	Very wise old man.
	This being standing there.
	And I moved away, he was looking at me, and then I moved away from him, went higher up in the mountain, I looked into the cosmos, right into the cosmos, and then a voice said, maybe telepathically, the luminary is coming.
	That's what this voice said, the luminary is coming.
	And that's the title of my book.
	Okay.
	And then what happened?
	Well, that ended and that's when the UFO was next thing, the thing, the UFO. But I must say that before that, around that time, it was all happening around that time, before that, I was in a vision and I woke up in the vision and I was in a A shower of golden light.
	So if you imagine a shower, but it's golden light.
	So it's just this scintillating golden light.
	And I am that golden light, that shimmering golden light.
	And it's like...
	And so as I come out of that state, I don't know how long it was, but the word that came into my mind was bliss.
	Now, bliss was never a part of my vocabulary, and I know it's used in the East very much to do with Kundalini and Nirvana and all of that.
	I've got this word bliss, and then I'm aware of a figure standing only a foot away from me, facing me, so I'm right in front of this figure, and it has this incredible golden mask.
	It has this beautiful golden mask, and it's wearing...
	A gown, a kind of gown of like spun gold, like this kind of beige-y gold.
	Do you know the texture of linen?
	Like you've got this texture of linen that's got a lovely texture.
	Well, he's wearing this robe and he's got this golden mask and the golden mask is honeycomb.
	So it's patterned with honeycomb, this hexagonal honeycomb.
	So I see that golden mask.
	And then I notice these big black eyes.
	So they're the characteristic alien eyes, you know, the big oval eyes.
	So these huge oval eyes, these deep black oval eyes.
	And I look into those oval eyes.
	I don't feel it.
	I feel something.
	I'm not sure what it is, but anyway, I feel something.
	And then I look down.
	And as I look down towards the heart area, I see this red cube.
	So the right hand of the figure, I call it a figure rather than a statue, it's like a figure, and it hands me the red cube, and I take it in my right hand, and I think my friend is standing behind me.
	I can't see him.
	My friend is standing to the left of me, and the figure says to my friend telepathically, He said, you carry on with the synchronicity.
	And when he said that, I felt quite unhappy, you know.
	I felt, well, what am I going to do?
	But anyway, I was given the red cube.
	And when I held it, it felt very heavy, you know, like you would hold mercury or lead.
	Very, very heavy.
	And yet, immediately, it felt like a feather.
	So it was very heavy, very light.
	And something told me that in that red cube was like the key to my future.
	And in fact, the red cube becomes, I believe, the work that I did.
	All my writing was inside the red cube.
	So the red cube contained the knowledge that I would write many years later.
	That's my interpretation.
	Right, and you did discuss that, so then you actually did do that, correct?
	Yeah, I did that, and that became...
	What's interesting is, this is very interesting, I didn't know what a red cube was.
	I didn't even know what that was.
	And it was only when I did my...
	I collected a lot of books.
	I built up a library.
	So all my research came from my own library.
	I didn't use the internet.
	It's all from my own library.
	Books I picked up here.
	I moved it here around 2000.
	I began my work in about 2003.
	It took about 11-12 years.
	And I wrote 5 million words.
	So it's five million words.
	It's about three Bibles.
	And out of that, I more or less got three books.
	And what happened was I'd written about the red cube, etc.
	And then I got a book on minerals, crystals and minerals.
	It was a proper, you know, book on scientific book.
	And then I discovered that the The red cube is the garnet, which is, the garnet belongs, the garnet crystal family is the cubic crystal family.
	There are seven crystal families, you know, like the hexagonal emerald, etc.
	And the garnet has five types.
	So there are five end members of the garnet family.
	And one of them is al-mudin.
	And al-mudin is the carbon core.
	And the carbuncle is universally the third eye.
	It's the grail stone.
	It's the stone at the base of the unicorn's horn that's written about in the grail legend.
	And it's the kundalini third eye, the garnet.
	In the East they might say ruby, but the garnet.
	Now my family, where I was born, my maternal grandparents...
	Their name is Garnet.
	And so all this kind of connects.
	And so the point is, when I was given that red cube, I'd like to know, how did my mind know that the red cube was the Garnet and the crystal?
	So the point is that something knew that in my mind, as it were.
	And I found out, and I've read this in other people's books, In the ancient world, they had all this knowledge about crystals and everything, but it's only in modern science that they can actually tell you that, for example, the diamond is a cube.
	So the diamond is a cubic crystal, and the garnet is a cubic crystal.
	But they only found that out in the 20th century, more or less.
	So you wonder how these people knew that in the past.
	Right.
	But ancient knowledge, of course, has been and gone and been again.
	So we are simply rediscovering a lot of the ancient knowledge at this time.
	And the other thing is you studied young.
	So, of course, you know about the archetypes and you know about what you might call or he might call the universal mind.
	Pete Peterson would have called the information field that is all around us so perhaps you listen to my interview with Pete Peterson I don't know but he's a physicist and and then of course in the 19th century they also called it to some degree the ether although there may be some disagreements out there as to whether the ether and the The ether and what was
	called the universal mind, etc., and the information field are all the same thing.
	Yeah, well Jung calls it the collective unconscious, and he said that the collective unconscious has absolute knowledge.
	So he says in the collective unconscious what he called the psychoid is absolute knowledge, and that's the archetypal realm.
	Well, there's also the notion of the Akashic Records, which are also part of that.
	And the Platonic, I think it's also the Platonic.
	You know, there's the Oxford physicist Penrose, and he believes that there's, you know, that mathematics is a kind of Platonic order, a Platonic realm.
	Anyway, so I'll go from...
	I'll go from 1990...
	So I had the luminaries coming.
	I had this...
	I've become a being of light.
	The being of light's connected to my family tree, the garnet, the crystal, the third eye, etc.
	And the reptile I had before.
	So I see this red ore in about 1993, 1994.
	I take a break.
	I come down to Oxford.
	I live with my nephew.
	He studied artificial intelligence at the University of Sussex in Brighton.
	That's where he lives now.
	And he had a flat near the colleges in Oxford.
	I go down there.
	And I thought, well, I'll phone my friend in California.
	I know somebody in Santa Barbara that I knew in Krishnamurti.
	So his name's Craig Morrison.
	So I give him a call.
	He gets on the phone and he said, oh, have you read the Orion mystery?
	I said, no, I haven't.
	And I said, that's funny because I've been lying in bed.
	I mean, lying on the ground in the back room, looking at Orion.
	I used to just lie and look at Orion.
	I said, that's a coincidence, very strange.
	So anyway, not long after that, I just had this feeling to go out on the veranda, you know, little steps outside, and that red orb appears in front of me.
	So it appeared to me in Lancaster.
	Now this red orb appears in front of me, While I'm involved in Orion, which is again the Orion connection to this red orb.
	And so I see it and it's just floating there and I don't know how long and then it disappears.
	So obviously it's following me.
	I feel I'm being monitored.
	From that time I feel I'm being monitored, you know.
	Yeah, you know, there is sort of an overlay to some of what you're saying, some of the things you're discussing.
	At least for me, as I listen, there seems to be a bit of an artificial intelligence surrounding some of the things that you're describing.
	Yeah, well, my nephew...
	Now, what's very interesting, I was...
	My sister brought up my three nephews on her own when she returned from America, and I was his mentor.
	I mean, I educated him as a child and, you know, wrote plays when he was quite young and all of that.
	And what was very interesting was I moved into this particular house in the centre of Oxford, And one day, I don't know, I never do anything by method.
	Everything I do is spontaneous.
	I drew this strange looking UFO on the wall.
	I don't know why or anything like that.
	And under this UFO, it looked like a kind of insect.
	And under it, I did the infinity sign, you know, the eight sign, the infinity sign, which I thought I was fascinated with at that time.
	And that's when all the synchronicities were happening.
	I was writing plays that came true and all of that.
	And my nephew came.
	He was only about 11 years old at the time.
	And he didn't tell me at the time.
	He only told me later.
	He said, oh, I saw a blue orb.
	Floating out of that UFO and it floated around the room.
	And he never told me.
	Years later he told me, now what's interesting, very interesting, my brother and his wife, they said to my nephew when he was a little boy, oh let's go to a fairy glen in Wales.
	You know, my father's Welsh, I'm half Welsh.
	They said, oh let's go to a fairy glen in Wales.
	And so they take off You know, my nephew is about eight years old.
	They go to this fairy, Glenn, and this little fairy appears on his shoulder, and he's looking at it and everything, and he tells my brother-in-law, and they say, don't be so stupid.
	There's no fairies here.
	And, I mean, they took him to the fairy, Glenn.
	He sees the fairy, and they tell him he's stupid, you know, so he's very curious.
	Oh, very strange.
	Well, that's interesting.
	You know, I just did a tour, and I can't explain this, so it's very interesting.
	We just did a tour of these ancient sites in England, and we had someone on the tour who had a camera.
	I mean, everyone has cameras nowadays.
	I think it was a phone camera, but I can't remember actually exactly what it was like.
	But what happened was he took a picture.
	He actually took two pictures of fairies.
	And they're extremely clear.
	They're like, you know, like the standard Walt Disney fairies.
	They look exactly like that.
	Like these little bodies with these wings and the whole thing.
	And they're very tiny.
	And he had a whole bunch of them flying around in this area where he was filming.
	Do you remember where?
	Can you remember where?
	No, but it was all, you know, we were studying, you know, we were going around to these ancient stone circles here in England, and there was another actual sighting of a ship as it happened, which became quite controversial, strangely enough,
	because I don't think I'm going to say whose name, but someone came along and I think to some degree considers himself perhaps an expert on these craft and decided that craft was actually a lamppost, which it didn't look anything like and was up in the sky, nowhere near the bottom of the road, etc.
	We went back along the road to test and to see if there was any lampposts That could have been photographed by mistake, etc.
	And the person who took the picture took it by accident, just shooting out the window very suddenly.
	They were convinced it was a ship from the Ashtar Command, and I am not so sure of that.
	But even so, if it was, I wouldn't consider that a positive thing.
	This other person would consider it a positive thing because they like the Ashtar Command.
	But at any rate, But we had these kinds of things going on.
	So these fairies, though, it occurred to me that they may be some kind of artificial intelligently generated because they were, in a sense, too perfect.
	And as far as I could tell, they look quite alike.
	It was almost like they were duplicated.
	Yes.
	So there is something very strange about all that, but, you know, they certainly do seem to exist, these little, what are called elementals, and so on.
	But at any rate, that is strange that you would have somebody take a child somewhere to show them this and then turn around and say it's not true.
	Right.
	So the military...
	As I say, my uncle was in the Air Force Police.
	There was a nuclear submarine base in Portsmouth, New Hampshire.
	there was an air force base so let and I can give you I'll now tell you something that's very definitive in that respect so My friend publishes, while he's a PhD student, he finishes, he lectures at the religious department in Lancaster.
	It's the best in the country.
	And he decides to look for a post.
	And he finds the post where I am now, which is Essex.
	Essex is the county that borders London.
	And Essex is part of Greater London, so you've got an overspill, and it's a provincial town, it's in the southeast, it's a provincial town, no alternative people, nobody I can relate to, or anything like that.
	He gets a post, and then he becomes professor and everything like that.
	So the first place we live in...
	This is the first time I decide to do a UFO watch.
	I don't know why I decide to do it, but every night at 9 o'clock, it went on for a couple of weeks, every night at 9 o'clock, I'd open the window, it was freezing cold, I'd stand in the freezing cold, and to my left was Orion, because it's very dominant in Great Britain, Orion, it's to my left, very powerful.
	What happened was...
	That during the day, I spontaneously, I've never practiced any meditation, any magical ritual, nothing.
	Well, my friend, when he was at Oxford, he took two years out and went and lived in Glastonbury.
	And he got into Crowley.
	And he had the Golden Dawn Encyclopedia by Israel Rigardi.
	I don't know if you know that.
	It's a very big book with all the rituals inside.
	And I thought, well, I'll have a look in there.
	I wasn't into that, but I'll have a look in there, and I'll look at the pentagram.
	And I don't know why, but I do drawings and I do pastels.
	So I took one of the pastels, I went outside the house in the daytime, and I drew this pentagram right outside the window, right?
	I just drew it on the ground.
	I had absolutely no idea why.
	I didn't know what.
	I know what am I doing, but I did it.
	And that evening, and I didn't connect it, that evening I just stood at the window.
	Orion is to my left up in the sky in the southeast.
	And suddenly, just like the red orb, something appeared above me.
	So I look up, and it's the most beautiful thing I've ever seen.
	But five UFOs in pentagram formation floated from the roof.
	Now these weren't solid craft.
	These were like about a foot in diameter.
	They didn't have any dimension.
	They were just like light.
	They were just like light, like whirling, scintillating light, the flames of the Kabbalah.
	Chokmah wisdom is the scintillating flames.
	So they were just like these discs that were spinning around, but you couldn't see them spinning around, but you knew they were spinning around.
	And they were in the pentagram formation just above my head.
	And they were just like the red disc.
	They were going very, very slowly.
	So I just stood there.
	And they were the most beautiful golden orange light.
	They were golden orange light.
	And they were floating just like lotus petals on a pond.
	Just the absolutely most beautiful color.
	Again, quite pastel actually, but beautiful color.
	And they floated.
	Right in front of me, you know, a number of minutes and just floated above the pine trees towards the southeast where Orion was and that's where the military base is.
	Right, so there's a very ancient Celtic military base There's a Norman military base, there's a Roman military base, and now there's a modern.
	It's always been a very powerful military centre, the capital.
	And so what's interesting as well, a couple of days before that, I saw this black cat.
	Very interesting.
	I just saw this black cat, nowhere near the house, further down the road.
	And it was just a kitten, a little kitten, black cat.
	I just noticed it.
	That black cat was in front of the window where the pentagram was, right?
	And I thought, what's that doing here?
	The next day I saw the black cat and I went over and petted it, stroked it.
	And I thought, oh, look at the, you know, they have the name tag.
	And I looked at the silver name tag.
	As I turned the silver name tag, it said Osiris.
	Oh, wow.
	Okay.
	Now, Cyrus is the god of Orion.
	Sure.
	Sahu.
	It's called Sahu.
	But the Egyptian word also means the spiritual body.
	So Sahu is what you call the glorified spiritual body.
	And when you look in the Book of the Dead and you see the initia in the white gown, that's the glorified body.
	Because when you're a pupil of faith in the underworld, You put on your white raiment, you know, your spiritual being.
	And you, in a sense, you identify with Osiris or Horus the Sun.
	So Horus the Sun is really the initiator.
	He's the pupil.
	So there's the Orion connection again, the black cat.
	And now I'll go, if you don't mind, unless you want to ask me something, I'm not losing the thread.
	Okay.
	Well, the only thing I wanted to say here is that, of course, what we're talking about are, you know, synchronicities in a sense, but we're also talking about sort of your spiritual inner light being reflected around you and that you're attracting these things, as we all do, to yourself.
	And also that witches and magicians, et cetera, would say that this cat is also there to dialogue with you, to possibly protect you.
	And also possibly as a messenger of a kind.
	So there are various other ways to look at this, the appearance of the cat at the same time as the sort of orb-like objects, etc.
	So it's all, you know, a very interesting course.
	There is also the cat that appears.
	I don't, you know, you say you're not into movies.
	So in the Matrix movies, of course, the first Matrix movie specifically.
	Yeah, I've seen those now.
	Okay.
	Well, the first one is really the one worth seeing, and in it there's a significant scene in which a black cat appears.
	When I met my friend, we went to London, we came back, and my nephew had finished university in AI, came back to Oxford, and my My friend knew all these people into magic, right?
	So they're all into magic, Crowley and all of that, the Golden Dawn.
	I wasn't part of the Golden Dawn, but there are all these people in the Golden Dawn and everything in Oxford at that time.
	And we went and I said, well, why don't you come along to my nephew?
	We're going to see this guy who's into magic.
	We're going to this pub.
	So we go through the back streets of North Oxford and And we're going along and suddenly this black cat darts out in front, almost trips us all over.
	We're like laughing, you know, almost trips us over.
	That black cat came out of the house that became our next house.
	So we moved into the next house we move into after coming back from London was that very house.
	Wonderful.
	What's interesting is two doors away...
	There was a lady physicist called Zohar, and she was a friend of Professor David Bowen that I actually talked to at Brockwood Park with Krishnamurti.
	I got to know him.
	So there was another very interesting connection.
	So anyway, so my friend gets married.
	We're down here a year.
	My friend gets married, moves away just down the road And I get a room, and that's where I am right now.
	So I'm on the hill, because Colchester's on the hill.
	I'm opposite the castle, and I'm only a few hundred feet away.
	It fills half of my window.
	Colchester's the oldest city in Britain.
	It was set up by the Romans, the oldest city.
	And this castle is the largest castle that was ever built.
	So...
	I do my studies and it's around 2008, 2009.
	I'm sitting in my, where I am sitting right now, and 2009, and it's 11 o'clock at night.
	It's dark.
	I can't see, there's no stars to think of.
	I'm looking towards the east.
	There's no curtains.
	It's a very big window, like a studio window.
	I'm looking out.
	So there's three panels.
	There are three panels of the window.
	And right in the upper panel, right in the center, one, two, three, four, five UFOs appear next to the castle.
	And they're in a zigzag formation.
	So they're vertically in a zigzag formation, five of them.
	And they're greeny red lights.
	They're quite solid.
	If you look at a planet through binoculars, say like Mars or something, as I've done, you see them like they look kind of greeny red or something.
	Anyway, they look quite solid and they didn't seem like very far away.
	And my binoculars, I don't look for UFOs here, but my binoculars are nearby.
	I grab my binoculars and I focus on the lights, and one, two, three, four, five, they disappear quite quickly.
	But what's interesting is this silver cylinder appears.
	So this silver cylinder appears, and it's got perfect lines.
	So imagine, I don't know how big it honestly is, but if probably I saw...
	A helicopter.
	It might be the size of a helicopter from that distance, maybe half a mile, a mile or something like that.
	But it's a perfect line.
	It's a silver-gray cylinder.
	It doesn't seem to be solid, so it seems to be like an apparition, like a, you know, it's not solid, like the lights were.
	And it floated down at a 45-degree angle in a perfectly straight line, again, very slowly, second by second by second.
	So I just followed it floating down.
	It floats down towards the skyline of the city and it disappears exactly where those other UFOs disappeared and that's where the military base is.
	Right.
	They both disappear and don't forget this is a hilly place.
	This is built on a hill so it's actually hills and it's been an ancient place It's probably a Celtic magical hill, you know, it's probably a magical hill from the Caltz time.
	So those UFOs, there were five before, there were five this time.
	I don't know what to call that cylinder mothership, I'm not sure, but it disappeared right where that base is.
	So it's very interesting, isn't it?
	Absolutely.
	Now, we've been going for a while, so I'm going to basically have to close this down.
	We try not to keep these going too long, and I have to say that I'm sure that it's been fascinating for everyone to hear some of your journey, and certainly an introduction to your work.
	Now, if we were to fast forward, is this the most recent experience that you've had?
	Or do you have anything, any last sort of wrap-up story or statements that you might like to make?
	Well, not so much in the future.
	But when I came here, I met this very old man.
	He wasn't educated, never read books on religion, magic or anything.
	But I said to him after I knew him, I said that, you're my wise old man, you know, and he smiled at me and he knew that I knew who he was.
	And nobody that he ever met in this town knew who he was.
	And he's really happy to meet me because we shared incredible synchronicities together, incredible...
	But what was fascinating, when I got to know him, and it's a Castaneda type of thing, and that's what my Luminary first book is about, is my meeting with him.
	He takes me to, we go to the house and he teaches me all the wildflowers down the river.
	So I learn all the names of the wildflowers.
	We love looking up the old.
	So he's 82 and he dies at the age of 91.
	So I knew him all that time.
	He starts showing me pictures.
	And he takes out this picture of a UFO. And I'm shocked, and I was quite shocked that he...
	And it's a slide.
	He took a slide.
	He was on a boat coming back from Germany with his wife.
	And you go into the North Sea, which is the German Sea, and you come over to Essex.
	So you come over to Essex from the continent on the German North Sea.
	He was with some friends and he thought, oh, I'm going to go up on deck.
	So he goes up on deck in the middle of the night.
	It's all black and everything.
	And he just sees this green light and he takes a photograph.
	And it's this kind of, it's like this drop.
	It's just like a kind of pear drop or just this drop.
	So he has this slide made and I have it enlarged and I put it in my luminary book.
	And it's a really good picture of the UFO. So he's connected to UFOs, which is quite interesting.
	You know, and he just, it's like taking a rabbit out of the hat.
	You know, I mean, he just surprised me over and over and over again.
	I mean, I was sitting in his house, and he has lots of apparitions, and people have seen apparitions and all that in his house.
	And I was looking in the back garden, and I saw in the bushes, I saw quetzalcoatl, you know, the plume serpent.
	Right.
	So I saw this buddleia tree, the butterfly tree, with these purple...
	And it was bobbing up and down in the wind.
	And it was absolutely the face of Quetzalcoatl.
	Then I see this big black dog, very about six foot tall, sitting on its haunches, a big black dog.
	And then I see this serpent going right up this tree.
	And it was very, very tall up this chestnut tree.
	And the light was coming through the leaves.
	And it was like sparkling where the eyes were.
	So it's like the eyes were like this sparkling light.
	And I said to him in this room, it's quite dark in the room in the daytime.
	And I said, oh, I said, I've been seeing these things in your back garden.
	And I just saw the serpent.
	He says, oh, yeah.
	He said, it's winking at us.
	And I thought, how on earth did he see that?
	Because I was just looking and I didn't see him looking.
	And I thought, how could he see that?
	He seemed to know.
	He seemed to know he was winking at us.
	So, you know, very, very interesting person and Lovely.
	Okay.
	Well, you have some wonderful stories and obviously wonderful experiences to draw upon.
	And I'm sure that, as I say, people have been very sort of tantalized by your stories.
	And thank you very much.
	You know, it's delightful to talk to you.
	I'm sure that we could talk perhaps in the future again and go down some other roads.
	Yeah, that would be wonderful, yeah.
	Especially if you found out something about...
	Well, I tried to find out about the military base.
	I would like to know.
	There are people here that do that, so I might look into that.
	Absolutely.
	Well, yeah, there may be some things that you can check into.
	For some reason, I need to tell you that...
	You might be interested in the Andromedans.
	Have you ever had anything to do with Andromeda or been visited by Andromedans?
	No.
	No, I haven't.
	Okay.
	Well, you think they might be linked to the symbolism?
	Well, I think there might be a relationship there.
	Yeah, right.
	So I have asked for questions in our chat.
	We do have an active chat.
	A lot of people here.
	But I don't see many questions, so I've asked them if they wanted to ask questions.
	We have some complete psycho who's been also infiltrating our chat room.
	But at any rate, there is, let's see, someone who is saying, what do you think the reason is that these beings revealed themselves to you?
	You mean the apparitions, the anti- Yes, I assume they're relating to the recent story you just told.
	Yeah, well, that was quite the point.
	I think there's an echo.
	There's an echo there.
	Oh, right.
	Okay.
	Well, perhaps we're having interference again.
	Maybe we'll just close this down now then because of that and reconvene and have you back on the show in the future, okay?
	I'd love that.
	There's no echo at the moment.
	Okay.
	When I go to bed...
	As soon as I lie down, I have all these entities.
	I've seen cities of light, a city of white light, and these various entities.
	I'd like to tell you one little thing.
	I'm deep in sleep, very deep in sleep, and I see this black object.
	It's like a jet black, shiny black object.
	Object, like a rectangle.
	So it's like a block.
	It's probably two foot, six inches deep and maybe eight inches wide.
	It's this block.
	And around the block, the shiny black block, are a white script.
	It's like a white script.
	Well, I know quite a lot about hieroglyphs, but I can't recognize the script.
	I wake up in my bed and And I immediately open my eyes, and there is that object in front of me in the room.
	So that's quite interesting, you know, that it's in your mind, and you wake up, and there it is in the room.
	So that is a kind, again, it seems to fit the scenario of interdimensional things, you know.
	Yes, yes, yes, sure.
	Well, we don't just see with our eyes, either.
	No, no.
	So that's also part of it.
	In other words, you can see with actually your eyes closed.
	You can test that, actually.
	There's ways of testing that.
	But at any rate, again, thank you very much for being my guest.
	I'm glad that the line of communication held for this period of time.
	We're very...
	Lucky that it did.
	And so thank you for that.
	And thank you again for coming on the show.
	I think people will be interested to see more about you and your books if you get a chance to create a website or a Facebook page where you can be accessible.
	I have a Facebook, yeah.
	Do you?
	Okay.
	I have an author's page and a Facebook and stuff.
	Excellent.
	Alright, then people will look and find that.
	Do you want to give out your email address in case anyone wants to try to reach you?
	Yes, david.sr.curtis at outlook.com So it's david.sr.curtis at outlook.com And you can find that on my Facebook.
	And if you go to Amazon on the books, I put it there as well.
	So it's everywhere, really.
	All right.
	Okay, great.
	So, David, thank you so much for coming on the show.
	It's great.
	It's absolutely great.
	Yeah.
	Thank you.
	I thought, you know, I thought...
	So good.
	Because we talked earlier, so that broke the ice, didn't it?
	Absolutely.
	And, you know, you let me talk.
	As I say, it was only like, it was like looking at the surface, but there was depth there, but it was looking at the surface, so to speak.
	All right.
	Thank you again and thanks everyone for taking the time and being patient with the show and our logistical difficulties in the beginning and have a great night.
	Okay, bye.
	Bye-bye.
	So I guess we will be back next week with some more shows.
	And it's been actually quite fascinating this week.
	So if you get a chance, you want to watch my previous shows this week, I encourage you to do so.
	There's a lot going on out there.
	It pays to be awake and aware, and I am here in England to actually do a conference.
	The conference is coming up in about a little over a week, and we're having some fabulous speakers.
	If you're in the area and you want to come by, I highly recommend it.
	We'll also be having a sort of dinner with a panel discussion with the speakers as one of the things going on during those two weekend days.
	So it's June 24th and 25th and you can find all the details and information on my website under the events tab and that's at the top of the website very easy to find and then also you can go to ufoacademy.com to buy tickets for the event so hope to see you there it's it's going to be a lot of fun All right,
	so I'll be back next week with some other guests, and thanks for watching.
	Take care.

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