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March 12, 2017 - Project Camelot
01:13:51
MELINDA LESLIE: MILAB ABDUCTEES
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Thank you.
Thank you.
You can be watched and followed and have a dark van or car parked outside your home with people photographing you in these military experiences to be tested for psi ability, PSI, psychic abilities.
And so you can say, well, you have a mission.
You have a purpose.
And some of that could have been directed or guided or at least influenced by the ETs.
There was a mass abduction of people involved with that conference.
And I was one of those people.
What happened is she was taken in a room and they brought in this big reptilian guy.
A couple of different people witnessed it.
She had a full police report that a car had deliberately pushed her off the freeway.
So you go, wait a second, there's an involvement.
This is deep.
This is everything about, everything on the surface is, pardon my language, bullshit.
But whether the official announcement, sometimes I want to say, be careful what you ask for.
It may not be the truth.
I feel like I want to say, there's a camera, you know, to those out there who are whistleblowers or an insider, my God, if you can come out on this, do.
The world needs to know this.
Hi, I'm Carrie Cassidy from Project Hamlet and I'm here today with Melinda Leslie.
We're at the UFO Congress and we had a great opportunity.
We just ran into Melinda.
I had no idea she was going to be here.
So this is just, this is wonderful because I interviewed you in depth a few years ago, but it's been a while since we've had a chance to really catch up.
And so here we have a great opportunity.
And Melinda is really a specialist in what are called military abductions, my labs.
We can go into more depth on your background just for the introduction here.
Sure, sure.
If you don't mind.
Sure, no problem.
And I don't think you consider yourself a regression therapist.
No, no, no.
I'm not a trained hypnotherapist.
I don't do any hypnosis or therapy.
Okay.
I'm just a researcher investigator and an experiencer.
Yes, but you also, in your investigations, you end up interviewing a lot of...
Yeah, oh, I've worked with well over 100 people.
I lost count somewhere along the way, but well over 100 people who've had covert ops involvement in their experiences, what's typically referred to as my labs, which of course is MIL for military and AB for abduction.
And I've always had a specific...
Area of research in that I've chosen to focus on people who've had alien abduction experiences who then get targeted by covert human agencies because they've had alien experiences.
And so, you know, I always say kicking and screaming, I got into mind control research and other things, targeted individuals, everything else, but only because I had to understand that because of what people were going through.
That it was a part of the experience.
But again, I kind of choose to have that limited focus of people who've had alien abductions who get targeted for that reason.
And then where that research has gone over the years, and that's the part I'll go over with you, where it's gone and where it's, you know, continued.
Because my research has evolved over the years from what I originally thought to what I think now, you know.
Okay, well, let's dive right in.
So, let's kind of start at the end.
Where are you now with this research?
Are you, you know, are you more of a skeptic or are you, you know, have you gone down a different road completely?
No, no, no.
It's just, for instance, when I do lectures and, you know, I lecture at conferences and we can get more into my background later.
But, in answering your question, When I lecture at conferences now, in my PowerPoint, I have this one slide that I came up with about five years ago, and I'm really proud of it.
It's this graph that shows a curved line going up.
Now, one thing is we now know that the covert involvement in abductions, that abductees have harassment, surveillance, monitoring, and then they may have an ET experience with military also involved, or people in lab coats, not just military, which is why I like to say Covert Ops, human involvement, as opposed to saying the MyLab, because MyLab puts such a military emphasis on it.
And sometimes it has nothing to do with military universe.
It's just guys in suits or lab coats and not uniforms.
And it involves an intelligence community monitoring of the individual.
So I'm like, it needs to be a broader definition.
And just so by saying covert human, that's covert human agency, which encapsulates a lot.
So anyways, going back to, because of my own experiences with it, I started investigating it.
My research over the years, it's well known in abduction research, that abductions, alien abductions, runs in families.
It goes back, for instance, it's very common now in abduction research, for an abductee to learn it happened to their parents, their grandparents.
You're an abductor.
You have kids.
It happens to your kids.
You're old enough now in abduction research where a lot of people are now grandparents and having it happen to their grandchildren.
So it's very common in abduction research to go back four and even five generations now.
So that's common.
What I've learned in the covert ops, my lab scenario, is that goes back in families as well.
And it was always kind of there, but, you know, it's like you start to go, wait, this goes back in families.
There's this family connection, and over time you get more and more and more of that, where then you can say, okay, unequivocally, this is what happens.
With everybody, just any aspect of these phenomena, you know, even in alien abduction, you can't say everybody has this or everybody has that.
It's like percentages, you know.
But it's very common for the alien abductee who starts having the harassment and their surveillance and their monitoring to realize, first off, that it may have happened to their parents and their grandparents.
And all along in my research, I had that there was this family connection going back to things like bloodline scenarios.
Hello, you know.
Yeah.
It's there, you know, the whole mind control parts.
And then going back to family members in intelligence community, the military, obviously that's very common, but more like intelligence community, aerospace community, high-tech development, government positions, and like I said, intelligence community stuff, going back with people's father, mother, grandparents, aunts, uncles, you know, and it just became so common.
I'm like, they're monitoring the offspring of these individuals.
And now I'm not surprised.
Someone says, they're almost shocked at an abdictee if they're approaching me about why I'm having some harassment surveillance or something.
If they themselves have that connection in their own background or that their parents or a grandparent or somebody does, I'm no longer surprised at all.
I expect them to say that.
And then when they're sharing with me, they go, does that relate?
And I go, yeah, it's like across the board.
It's not only that the actual experiences of the reabduction by military or the harassment surveillance, but also the family connections to those communities and, you know, that kind of career background and everything.
So it goes back in family.
So now, the reason I brought that up is that curve I have on that slide.
It starts, alien abduction is like five points in.
It's like I have bars, boom, boom, let's say I've got, without having it in front of us, let's say I've got 30 of them.
It's like, you know, a couple points in.
So it goes back to the person realizing it maybe happened previously in their family, in their own family, or for them themselves, like their background.
And then it goes into the family's background.
And in some cases even, you know, not to, you know, be trite about this, but realizing it goes back in history, okay?
So I talk about kind of a historical perspective, working up all the way into that person's own family, then they themselves.
Boom!
Then comes the alien abduction.
It's not like alien abduction first, covert ops in my lab later.
It's like it preexists it.
You know, that's why I'm going, wait a second, there's this family background, just like we know with the alien abduction.
And then, so boom, the person has the alien abduction.
Then they start to have low-grade monitoring, surveillance, You know, the infamous black helicopter activity and their phone monitor, snail mail, you know, their emails messed with, whatever.
It can get pretty extensive.
It can be really low grade.
You can be watched and followed and have a A dark van or car parked outside your home with people photographing you.
And it just kind of ramps up.
And then somewhere along the way, they might have an experience as an alien abduction, but see people either in military uniforms or lab coats and stuff.
So this I've covered on your show before without going into great detail.
So they could have that in their background.
Or in their experience, where they're having an ET experience and then seeing, you know, this other stuff going on.
And then all of a sudden they might have an abduction that's by the military or by guys in lab coats or people in suits or any combination thereof, you know, humans, covert humans.
And it might be a completely human experience where they never see an ET or Those humans take them, for instance, to an underground base, and they also see ETs present.
So all these scenarios are very common.
Right.
And the abductees are like, whoa, wait, it's a human environment.
And they're always very clear.
It's like, oh, could they be confused?
Could it be screen memory?
No, the abductees are usually very clear.
This was a human environment.
Human windows, human doors, human handles, human fluorescent lighting, you know, boom.
You know, linoleum floor, whatever.
It's usually not always, but I would say...
80% of the time, if they have the experience of being taken, it's an underground military base more often.
Not always.
Sometimes above ground, but it's just so heavily underground.
What we call them now, deep underground military base.
And then from there, so that's not the end, then it goes to...
They have repeat experiences and then it goes into maybe monitoring their life.
More harassment surveillance, maybe being befriended by insiders, the minder scenarios where you meet someone in intelligence and they start sharing information with you.
They might outright gain your trust be confirming parts of your experience.
And then it can ramp up again, and without having to chart in front of me, I'm just trying to go from memory here, but it can ramp up to deepening levels in your life to all of a sudden in the abduction experiences you can be used in covert operations.
For instance, it's very common for abductees in these military experiences to be tested for psi ability, PSI, psychic ability, remote viewing, telekinesis, psychokinesis, you know.
and tested and they you know they want to know your abilities they want to know Have you learned something from the ETs?
Have they enhanced that?
And also your genetics.
Is there something interesting about you genetically?
So they might be doing that in the experience.
And, of course, the interrogations.
The threats, the warnings.
Don't talk about this.
Lots of threats to people's lives and well-being and their family and their kids are threatened, you know.
And then also, I mean, I don't mean to minimalize that.
Minimalize that, of course, is very frightening.
But that stuff happens, too.
And a lot of testing the abductee, questioning them, etc.
But then the abductee could suddenly find themselves wearing a military uniform participating in something or participating in a science experiment beyond just the psi stuff, you know, and sat at a computer and working it and everything in this, quote, military experience.
Well, it can cross over as well into actually so-called what we call super soldier activities.
Yes, exactly.
I was about to go there.
That's where I'm going.
So now, so then...
So that can happen, and the abdictee is participating in stuff within that abduction scenario, and then sometimes that abdictee then is in a full-blown operation, you know, operational.
And some abdictees, it starts off alien abdictee and goes into, they become the super soldier.
Now, of course, if you're an abdictee and you've joined the military, you know, and you have a military background...
And we've got double...
Yeah, and often you're in the military, you're on a base, you're in an operation...
Boom, you're taken there, you're a sitting target.
They, you know, plausible deniability, the cover's in place, you're already there, you're already in a controlled situation.
So sometimes these people have joined the military.
Well, in their life, just like, you know, regular, whatever, joining the military.
But sometimes these abductees will get used in those scenarios and they've never joined the military.
And then, in some cases, they get recruited to where they become the perpetrators of the experience.
And I have had both kinds.
I've had men and women who have, for instance, joined the military, got involved, and next thing they know, they're carrying out or are involved in part of the pickup team or something of military abduction.
And sometimes they join the military and they're forced in that position, and sometimes For instance, I have one guy who's an amazing case.
Alien abductee starts to have advanced mileage, starts to get recruited, starts finding himself involved in perpetrating and questioning abductees and helping pick them up and be part of that team.
He's never joined the military.
And yet he's using that.
So in other words, it happens to people who've joined the military and people who haven't.
I just want to ask you about that because there is a scenario that I've come across in my interviews, and I have found that some people that I approach look military, and yet they aren't.
So I think that what happens is sometimes they're abductees.
Sure.
They're conscious of that.
Yes.
And yet they're not conscious of the military side of their experience.
That they may be.
And yet they look.
Yeah.
You know, it started to, you know, they've got...
That training.
They've got the haircut.
Yeah.
You know, in the guy case.
Sure.
They've got, you know, muscular development.
Sure.
That doesn't kind of fit with what they say they do for a living and so on and so forth.
Yeah.
Well, and sometimes, too, it could be...
Yes, that could be as a direct byproduct of the experiences like I'm talking about.
I think so.
But it could be, that's also what makes that person of interest and use to them is this person could be plugged into that scenario.
They're all that all-American look.
They're clean cut.
They're already physically fit.
You know, that kind of thing.
And it's not like, I want everyone to know, it's not like the people who get involved in these scenarios are going along with it.
Sometimes they are.
You know, good old...
James Caswell slash Michael Prince, who you interviewed, you know, talks about doing and enjoying it.
You know, romanticize about it.
Whoa, you know.
And yet this other guy, whose name I'm not using right now without his permission, but this other gentleman says, Melinda, at first it was interesting.
I thought I was learning something.
They wanted me to be involved in this stuff.
It was under duress, mind control procedure, you know, against his will.
But he said there was something interesting.
But he said, eventually I realized I'm terrorizing people and I had extreme guilt over it.
And so he wasn't really coming to me saying, I want to go public.
He was coming to me to kind of like exercise his guilt to say, I don't want to be a part of this.
How do I get out of this?
What do I tell them?
I said, go public, they'll leave you alone.
But they threaten his life so much that he's borderline.
There's a time I thought he wanted to go public, and other times he's too frightened.
And this crosses over into those Mind control areas and targeted individuals.
And, you know, it gets so confusing.
And again, I always have to kind of reel it back, you know, dial it back and say, okay, let me focus on this from an alien abduction standpoint as the start-off point.
But again, I've come across all the other, I just, that's...
Just for my own sanity, I focus on that area.
And like I said, so then the curve goes up and they get recruited, used, and some of it's sci work, some of it's perpetrator work, some of it's intelligence work.
Sometimes they're just having that person sit at a computer.
Sometimes it's all lab work.
I've had people who say, yeah, I got involved in these.
Helping with these lab experiments, but I didn't do any of that stuff.
So it's all different.
And then at any point, you can restart anywhere along that list.
And some people, it doesn't progress that way with everyone, by all means.
Some abdictees just start to have a little harassment surveillance.
They're monitoring you.
They might be looking into your case.
Are they of interest?
Are you someone with psi abilities?
Are you someone who's receiving, like a Stan Romanek, who's receiving all this mathematical formulas?
Are you getting technical information?
Are you getting math?
Are you getting languages from the ETs?
Are you a repeat ET? Do you have a lot of evidence for that?
Does it go back in your family?
You know, so it could be they're looking for those cases that are of use to them or of interest to them, and if they monitor you and they're not that interested, boom, it stops.
And some people never progress beyond that.
Yeah.
Or the monitoring just goes on for a long time.
Right.
But then all of a sudden, someone who's having monitoring surveillance, boom, aliens and military together.
Boom, underground base.
Boom, question, you know, goes do-do-do-do, and it can just start ramping up.
And to this point where people are being recruited, used in programs...
And it can get extensive.
I go on and on with no names of people that are similar scenarios and then all the people that have I've spoken to me who don't wish to go public in any way.
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, you know, because actually I consider myself one of these people.
Yes, sure.
So it's easy for me to...
We've got to talk some time more about that.
I have to interview you next time.
Yeah, off the record.
Got that, folks?
I'm going to get...
No, you've admitted it.
Okay.
You know, but I mean, just as much as you're willing to say, because I think a lot of people will be interested.
And that speaks to your motivation.
Yes.
I mean, everything you've done for all these years with Project Camelot and the Whistleblowers...
That speaks to your motivation and your drive, and I think it's important.
Yes, it is important.
But it's only gradually through Camelot that I started to realize that I was my lab.
I had a hint of it very early on, you know, and I have little scenarios that we can share about that.
But the bottom line is that I had the military abduction, but I also had the ET thing.
Yes.
And I had a recurrent abduction scenario that was military and ET. Mm-hmm.
And then I went on to be just E.T., you know, and then I went through various races, no abduction, just visiting me, talking to me all night, that sort of thing, where as far as I know, I didn't leave my bedroom.
You know, that was at least the illusion I was given.
Well, I mean, you can look at what, again, what you're doing with Camelot and what you've done over the years, not only your motivation, but maybe...
That there's a mission.
Part of us goes, oh, that feels uncomfortable.
We can kind of go, well, just on a spiritual level, we can go, yeah, it's clearly.
And so you can say, well, you have a mission.
You have a purpose.
And some of that could have been directed or guided or at least influenced by the ETs.
Same with me.
I mean, now my full-time gig, not to go into great details, I take people out with military night vision goggles to have UFO sightings.
I love providing that experience and changing people's paradigms.
I am driven to educate people about this.
And that experience, I mean, it's a cliche to say, seeing is believing.
But once you have a sighting...
You've had a sighting.
No one can tell you otherwise.
That's right.
And I do that every night.
I've done it to over 5,000 clients.
I've taken out 700 tours.
That's amazing.
And roughly about just under 5,000 individuals.
And we always have signs.
But the reason I brought that up is...
I'm driven to do that.
I'm also here doing this research.
I'm driven.
It's a byproduct of my experiences.
To what degree that was directly influenced by these, I don't know.
I almost don't care.
I am driven.
And certainly because of my experiences, you know, that's what got me into doing this.
I had my own experiences with it and I started to question, say, well, what's going on and why?
And is this happening to other people?
And then going to Bud Hopkins and Dave Jacobs and John Mack and John Carpenter and saying, do you guys have cases of this?
And they're like, oh, yeah.
Initially, they're like, yes.
And eventually, they were like, oh, yeah, I got 20 cases, blah, blah, blah.
So over time, their view changed, and they were willing to open up.
And all of them said, Melinda, we're so glad you're doing this because then we don't have to.
We'll tell you about our cases and you can talk about it so we can go out because they were all still doing triage, helping people through that initial traumatic recalling that they had the ET stuff.
And I get it.
That served its purpose.
But all of them had cases of this.
It's not that they didn't.
But it's just like in...
The organization free, the Dr.
Edgar Mitchell Foundation for Research into Extraterrestrial Encounters.
I'm on a consulting board for them.
They included some MyLab things in their first questionnaire, which has gone out to 3,000 people.
And I think they were coming with about 15% of the people who had military involvement stuff.
But they were asking the wrong questions.
They were literally saying, were you abducted by the military?
Forget all the harassment surveillance.
I told Ray Hernandez and the rest of the people on the board, you guys, when you ask the right questions, the harassment surveillance stuff, I expect you're going to get at least 40%, and I will not be surprised if you get 60% response on it.
Out of all your cases.
I said, it's that common.
I said, I'm actually surprised that the number is as high as like 15% for People who've had military abduction just being taken by the military.
Because I said, what about all the people who had ET abductions but saw covert humans, doctors, guys in lab coats, whatever, in present?
So I said, when you ask the right questions, those numbers are going to go...
Right.
Sure.
Now, but I want to back up a little bit because, you know, you said, you know, last time when we talked, you weren't actually revealing a whole lot of your own personal, you know, exposure in this, as I remember.
Oh, yeah, that.
No.
No.
And we don't have to belabor it here in this, but for the purposes of the discussion, you know, you're talking about being, it sounds like you're even more targeted in your own mind as to what might have motivated you to go down this road specifically.
And is there anything in the more, you know, let's keep this recent, relatively recent, to where this is keeping you on the road.
Because I'm noticing, let me just bring this into it.
I notice that I have constant contact now.
And I see beings and so on.
And they're also communicating with me.
And they're putting me and facilitating things like this, this meeting between us.
Which was not planned.
Sure.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
At least in my mind, consciously.
Sure.
Or your mind, consciously.
Yeah, of course.
I didn't know you were going to be here.
You know I was.
We saw each other.
Yeah.
And you said, hey, you want to do an update?
Boom.
Right.
So that's what I'm saying, is that I'm wondering how in your life this might be manifesting and also helping your progress with your own research.
Sure.
Well, it's almost like I separate out my experiencer hat versus my researcher hat.
And I have my researcher hat and my experiencer hat.
I realize it's the motivation behind it all, but again, I can't really point at them specifically motivating that.
It's more like just a byproduct of that's why I'm driven.
But in answering your question, first off I'll say this for the people viewing.
I've had, I believe now, With some amount of certainty that I've had nine military abductions total.
Okay.
Now I've had a lot of harassment surveillance stuff, but that's kind of fallen off other than the minder stuff, which is ongoing and current and active over the last like three years, very active, which is government insiders who befriended me, who are participating in my life and They're my friends.
They're people who come into town.
I meet with them.
I get a lunch.
But at some point, I mean, I'm curious.
And I want to know what they know.
And I'm stringing it along.
And it's okay.
I realize that's their job.
So they're interviewing you at the same time you're interviewing them.
And so I'm okay with that.
And there's no problem there.
It's just like, well, I'm curious.
What do they know?
And by being their friend, I'm hoping at some point they open up more to me.
And I'm there for that.
And I'm asking stuff by them, and I'm getting their reaction to stuff, which is very telling in itself.
And every time it progresses, it's like they're stringing me along, and I'm stringing them along.
We're using each other, and we're friends in the process.
I don't have any problem with that.
And this is true for a lot of other people in this field with those kind of individuals.
Yeah, and actually husband, wives, and all this kind of thing, right?
Yeah, exactly.
We're handlers.
I mean, out-and-out handlers.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
So I don't know if you feel that you have a handler.
I've been handled.
I've been switched off to different people over the years.
Yes, yes.
Currently at arm's length, but yes, I've switched off over the years.
So at times I can say...
Absolutely at times, but it's switched and it's more like kind of a group of people keeping tabs on me.
And so that's been ongoing.
And including up to maybe six months ago, significant interaction there.
And so that's been ongoing.
But again, I think they've been very supportive of me doing a book and they're like, Do the book.
Do the book.
I'm like, you guys want me to do this?
And they're like, yeah.
Well, I think it's because they're going, what the hell is she going to say?
And so it might be a different story after the book comes out.
But they said, are you going to mention our names?
And I said, no.
Well, at least, of course, they'll see this, but not in the first book.
Yeah.
We might expose a little later.
But like I said, I'm stringing them along too.
I admit I'm guilty, you know.
Now, just in case anyone watching, because occasionally I hear this and it's just like so insane, you know, that I'll have people go, oh, well, you know, you're working for them.
I'm going, really?
You know, like, no.
I mean, this is, they're monitoring me.
They suddenly show up.
It's very confirming.
They'll tell me something about my own experience, you know.
And then I don't hear from them for a while.
And just so anyone out there with experiences knows, I'm never providing them any names, any information, nothing.
So I'm not giving them anything, which is probably why I'm not getting much from them.
Okay, but consciously.
That too.
Okay.
So, yeah, I mean, because I deal with this, right?
Yes, sure.
If I want to interview somebody, they want to contact me.
Look, and I'm not, it used to be we were unique in this way.
Some of us were really targeted and really surveilled.
Now they just do it to everyone at Snowden and they'll tell you.
Yeah, exactly.
Whereas, you know, there's a whole upside to that scenario.
Absolutely.
So even if you didn't, like, Get the direct monitoring.
It's being recorded.
In our television, computer, satellites.
Yeah, so they don't have to interface.
But these are guys who want to string me along, who want to show up and say, you're of interest to us.
But you are a person of interest.
And confirm part of my stuff, too.
And then I'm hoping to get some stuff for them, and I do.
So it's like, hi, we're going to have lunch and meet, and no one really says anything because they won't tell me and I won't tell them, and it's all...
Yeah, I know, but in my case, I'm a little more upfront with this kind of thing, because I know when somebody's trying to handle me and whatnot.
Yeah, exactly.
And it's not all the time.
It's low-grade.
It comes and goes.
And the last significant kind of stuff was probably six months ago.
But going back to, so that's going on.
But things like, you know, being watched and followed all the time and black health jars, phone stuff, I don't I kind of keep to myself.
I have my job.
I mean, maybe sometimes they've come out on my tour.
If so, they just look like all my other clients and I wouldn't know.
There's people, clients on my tour.
So I don't know.
But I'm having those sightings and stuff.
But nothing bizarre has happened because of that.
I think they could...
Well, what about things?
I've had some very interesting things where they've, you know, in deserted places, they've shown up, stared at me, you know, so-and-so.
Maybe they wanted to intimidate me, you know, and also things where they've been in restaurants, you know.
Clearly, out of place, sitting close to my table.
I've had a few things, a little watchful.
Here and there, like I said, months if not years in between, but I mean I have.
There were times over the last 20 years where that was more frequent.
I'm just saying it's lesser now.
But I think it's because there's a couple of these guys in the intelligence community more directly involved that they don't need to do that because those guys kind of know what I'm doing at all times.
They follow what I'm lecturing and what I'm doing with my tours.
And then they're saying they want me to do the book, which is...
I think they're just wondering what I'm going to say.
Sure.
But anyway, so that's the kind of ancillary stuff.
More directly...
Let me see.
My last...
Significant military abduction.
Okay, I'll say this.
My last alien abduction was two years ago.
Driving home from California, missing time.
I got shown a hybrid child I'd seen 20 years ago.
Well, yeah, 20 years ago at five years old was now like a 30-year-old adult, you know.
And so it was probably 25 years ago, and she was about five.
So now she's like 30, and they brought her in the room.
But it was a standard alien abduction with the exception of Being shown the adult hybrid, which was a wonderful experience for me.
And then they took a big scoop mark out of my leg, which wasn't so much fun, but the next day I had a big infamous scoop scar, famous in the subject matter.
So between the scoop scar, the memory, Yvonne Smith regressed me briefly over it, and it was enough to say, okay, this happened.
It was a period of missing time driving home from California.
I live in Sedona, Arizona, so I was driving home from Southern California.
And And I knew the spot of the road, basically where it happened.
So I knew that I'd stopped here and I'd stopped here.
Those stops should be an hour and a half apart.
It was like four hours, so I had, you know, probably at least two, not three hours of missing time there.
So that's what told me, okay, something happened.
Then the scoop mark cemented it.
Okay, this absolutely happened that I had this new healed scar overnight.
Okay, so, and then...
And then the last experience before that was you and I were both at where you interviewed me, which was Super Soldier Summit in 2013.
So at 2013, there was a mass abduction of people involved with that conference.
And I was one of those people.
And involved at least 12, 15, maybe as many as 20.
I'd say between 12 and 20 of us.
Roughly 15 people.
As far as my memory.
Now could I be, you know, whatever.
That's kind of my memory.
And Miles Johnston was among them, right?
Yes, yes, yeah.
And I could say your name, the names of the other people who were there who were involved.
I did, just yesterday, did an interview with Miles Johnston.
He wanted me to tell that story.
So that's recommended.
Yeah.
And that will be on the BASIS project stuff, I suppose, on his website and et cetera.
I'll let you know when that's up.
And maybe there can be a link here or something.
Yeah, absolutely.
If you're open to that.
But that's the in-depth telling.
So we don't need to retell that now.
No.
That's there.
Yes.
But I was at that conference.
For posterity.
I was at that conference, became aware of that abduction scenario.
However, was not part of it.
Yes.
To my knowledge.
No, I don't remember you being there.
But I do remember there being a commotion in the hallway at a certain point.
Oh, interesting.
I see.
I didn't know that.
That's another piece of evidence.
And I'm not sure why that was or what, you know, too long ago.
But I had heard right away after the event that there was something that had happened.
Well, I had all sorts of physical problems, problems with my sinuses.
I was blown out chunks of blood from days and weeks afterwards, you know.
Okay.
And et cetera.
So, and different people remember different pieces that match up, and I think together, you know, it'd be nice to get some of those people together, say, what do you remember, and come up with a more concise story.
A couple of the people involved have remembered and a couple have been regressed for it.
Okay, but that was located right actually across the street from what was at least sort of a, I want to say a Blackwater.
Oh, was it near there?
Yeah.
I didn't even know that.
Wow.
Yeah.
There's a military, it's called Black Something.
Well, the event was at the Fiesta Casino in Henderson, Nevada.
Right.
So, which is right near the freeway there.
Underground base there, and I mean, the whole nine yards.
Okay.
Right.
And we weren't removed from the hotel.
We were taken from our hotel rooms, those of us involved, onto the service elevator of the hotel, down to the loading dock, where there were at least one, and now the account seems to suggest there were two trucks backed up to the loading dock with temporary,
like, Outpatient surgical units set up in the back of the trucks, pulled up to the dock, and one of the trucks, because that's the one I remember, looked like a rider truck, like rider moving, yellow with the blue stripe, you know, rider.
And it was pulled up to the dock, but the back was like a temporary medical surgical, you know, outpatient surgical unit.
So that's what it looked like.
And then they said there was another truck.
I don't remember that one, but a couple other people do.
You know, I could have just looked at one, or that's just when I'm remembering it, you know, whatever.
Anyway, so that's, like I said, that account has been recorded.
So that was the last one, and then the time before that, just to go back, because I'm just kind of going backwards, besides the minder stuff, which was kind of ongoing, but then about five years ago, myself and four friends in Sedona, So my friend Bonnie had come.
It's a long story, but her and I were staying in my friend Jocelyn's house.
She has a separate guest house.
Bonnie and I, you might know Jocelyn.
Yeah, I do.
Okay, yeah.
So that's the house we were at.
So Bonnie and me, Jocelyn and her husband, she has two grown daughters, both in college or at the time, and one was visiting home from college.
So one of the daughters visiting home from college, her husband, her, and Bonnie and I, the five of us, were taken together.
And we were taken out of the house by ETs, but taken somewhere locally in a parking lot.
It's a long story short.
Put on commuter vans and driven to...
Sedona has an underground military installation.
We were driven there and we all remember it.
Three of us got separate regressive hypnosis, but all with Yvonne Smith, but done separately over time.
I think the first was Jocelyn.
I think it was about two or three months after the event.
Me, it was like six months later, and then eventually, anyways.
But three of us did, and Yvonne said we're clearly recalling the identical same experience.
And two of the people didn't want to get regressed.
Well, they were her family members, her husband and her daughter, Jocelyn.
But she said they eventually shared more and more of what they remembered, and And she says, Melinda, they are remembering.
It is the same thing.
But three of us did get regression.
Besides, that morning we had conscious memory.
But that was that experience.
And just quickly, I'll just say it was for the testing of some psi abilities, being able to do psychokinesis, move some stuff with our mind, that kind of thing.
And that's what they were interested in.
And it was ETs and humans involved.
ETs took us, handed over, as I call it, a handoff.
That's really common in my research now.
ETs can take you and hand you over to the military and they can either then be out of the experience or come back at the end to then return you home and do the cleanup and return.
With the technology or whatever to teleport you and everything else.
Or they can show up also in the experience as being involved in it.
So those handoffs are very...
When you say ETs, you're being vague.
Are you saying grays specifically?
In my...
Okay, I've had nine of these in military abduction.
Some of them didn't have any ETs in them.
The ones that did, what I remember thus far, is I've seen the short, stocky, standard grays.
Okay.
Four foot tall, blah, blah, blah, you know.
And then I've seen the tall elder greys, which are more like five foot five or six foot, and they have the poignered chins and sunken cheeks and kind of wrinkle.
You know, they're typically referred to in abduction research as elder greys.
So I've seen those and the little ones.
And then on one occasion, a reptilian.
And that's Misha Johnston and I were taken together from her house in San Diego or La Costa, California.
And that was specifically to be threatened and have our life threatened and, you know, had the crap scared out of us.
And there was a reptilian present in that experience.
What year was that one?
I should know, and I'm having to remember right now.
Come on.
I know this.
Well, let's say before...
You guys, this is on the fly, so I don't have dates in front of me.
Before 2010.
Oh, yeah, yeah, way back in the late 90s.
All right.
Oh, no, actually, I think it was 2000.
Now they think about it.
All right.
Yes, I think it was in 2000 that it happened.
Okay, close enough.
Just to get, you know, sort of scenarios from then until today.
Yeah.
So, okay.
Her and I had appeared the night before on Coast to Coast radio program, but when Art Bell retired the first time, there were a couple different hosts before Art came back, and then he retired again, and then it was George Norrie.
But in that interim period, there was a host for about two years by the name of Mike Siegel.
We were on the radio with Mike Siegel hosting Coast to Coast, and And the night before this happened, it was the next night.
And then we were to speak at a conference together two weeks later, and I was going to not only go to her home to do the radio show together from her living room, but stay an extra day so we could prepare materials for our exhibit table that was going to be the Bay Area UFO Expo two weeks later.
So we were there for those purposes.
And so the night before we did the radio program, And I was staying there the next night, and that's when they broke in and took us.
We had all sorts of physical evidence, damage to the door, the break-in furniture in the room.
This is just one side little thing that I just was thinking, saying all that.
There were so many things.
I could go on and on.
It would be a lengthy part of the interview.
But there was one thing that just struck me, because Misha was just remembering.
And we talked about it, but, you know, the little parts you kind of forget, and then she goes, remember?
And I go, oh, yeah, that's right.
Besides all the damage to the door and her having to tell her landlord the home had been broken into when she came home from work, you know, just some story to explain why there was all this damage to the locks and the door frame, But the landlord ended up going around, and she was at the end of the apartment complex, and let's say there was like 10 apartments upstairs, 10 downstairs, you know, along that end or whatever.
And there was a fence with lights along the fence and globes, and there were porch lights along the upstairs and the downstairs.
And everyone was complaining that the lights weren't working, so the apartment manager of the complex had brought in an electrician to find out what was going at the lights, and he ended up determining...
The lights were fine.
All the bulbs had been loosened in their sockets.
So there were like four or five along the fence.
There were at least five upstairs, probably six upstairs, six downstairs at least.
And the light bulbs were all there.
Someone had just gone in and unscrewed them all.
And he said, who went around?
And so she was going around asking, who unscrewed all the lights?
So that night when that happened, they...
Unscrewed the lights.
I mean, it's just like, wouldn't it be easier to cut the wires?
But I don't know, whatever.
They went in through and unscrewed all the light bulbs.
Okay, but when you were threatened, you say?
Yeah, oh yeah.
And was this a conscious recall that you both had?
Yes.
Or was this a regression that invaded you?
Both of us had a little bit of conscious stuff.
That next morning, we didn't discover the damage to the door frame right away.
What happened is the next day we both fell out of it.
It was just kind of one of those things, maybe some bruises kind of stuff.
And the coffee table, which I had fallen over in the experience.
They had drugged me.
I was asleep on a futon couch in the living room.
And when they got me up, well, actually it wasn't really drugging.
It was this thing called a sticky shocker, this thing that hits you in the neck and it's like a form of taser.
It caused like an electrical pulse that made my whole body kind of like when your leg's asleep.
First it kind of went weak and then just like felt like when your arm or your leg are asleep.
And it was like, and then all of a sudden I had some movement, but it was like when your leg's asleep, you go to stand on it, it's tricky, you know?
But I felt like that from the neck down.
And two big military guys were helping me up and I could move.
And there was a guy in the doorway with a headset on.
The two guys were all in black and They had military helmets on with flip-up night vision goggles that, you know, attached to their helmets.
The guy in the doorway had a headset on, was right and stuff, and he pointed and said like this.
I thought he meant to me.
He probably meant the guides.
Oh, sorry.
I hit the mic.
The guards.
But he said like this.
And I started walking towards him, like pulling away from the guys who had helped me up.
And then I remembered either I hit the glass...
Top coffee table with my leg or I remembered it was there.
I think I did hit it because I walked into it and I went, ow!
And then I went, oh my god, that's glass.
So I turned backwards to turn away from it.
Well, my body wasn't like responding very well.
So I went back on the living room floor like a dead weight.
Boom!
But what had happened is it had broken the glass top.
It knocked it off, broken the glass.
And it had these like metal prongs like this that came up.
They almost kind of look like Horns, you know, that came up to hold the glass.
Right.
Those were all bent out of place.
So that morning we found that and it turned out the guy who lived downstairs below her said to her the next day, what happened last night?
It sounded like your whole entertainment unit in your living room fell over.
He thought the entertainment unit had fallen over with the TV on it.
No, it was Melinda falling his dead weight on the floor.
It wasn't the bookcase.
It was Melinda, you know, but I had fallen and he had heard that.
It woke him up.
Wow.
And then, like I said, they'd broken in the door.
They damaged the main door lock, the deadbolt.
The frame had been ripped away like a crowbar, put in the wooden frame, pulled it away.
And a friend of mine who was a private investigator at the time came and looked at it for us.
And he said, this is like prose.
Someone breaking in who knew that the way to get into the lock and the deadbolt is just pull the frame away.
And then you can just push the whole thing open.
And so he said, whoever did this, this was pros, but they didn't care that they left damaged.
They didn't care that you saw that.
So, but what do you mean that your life was threatened?
Why do you think that associated with that?
Well, I'll just...
I mean, it's short.
I'll go into short.
Okay.
We believe we were taken to Miramar.
We were in La Costa, San Diego, California.
We believe it was Miramar Naval Air Base, but just based upon...
We were drugged and put in the back of a van, and the direction it went on the freeway, tried to figure out, did it go north or south?
So it's either Pendleton or Miramar, you know, and we figured it went south.
But it doesn't almost matter, you know, whether it's Pendleton or Miramar.
They're both right there, and they're both about, from where she lived, they're like 45 minutes that way, or 40 minutes that way, or 40 minutes that way, same thing.
Okay, so we're right there.
But when the van...
Long story short, just trying to jump ahead.
Pulled in.
We were separated.
And we were taken.
It looked like a one-story building, but we went in.
We went downstairs.
She doesn't remember.
I think maybe she had passed out or been drugged, but I was walking with a guard down these stairs.
And I went at least three or four levels down from, you know, just basement or whatever.
I can't really, you know...
To me, underground bases, you get on the elevator and you go 20 stories, but this was clearly we're going down below a building.
We went down underground for all intents and purposes.
We were separated.
I went into a room where a naval captain came in, in partial uniform that I researched so I kind of knew, naval captain, and kind of interrogated and threatened by him.
What happened is she was taken in a room and they brought in this big reptilian guy.
And then they like switched positions and then I had the reptilian and she had the navel cap.
So it's like me with him and then they went like this.
It's obviously in like rooms next to each other.
And now initially I was in like a small office and I was either sitting or leaning against a desk.
Maybe there was a chair there that I was sitting in but I remember a wooden desk.
And this naval captain guy said, you need to stop, you need to stop researching, drop this, you know, that kind of thing.
And this is back in the year 2000.
Yeah, no, this was, yes, yes, that's right.
And he said, you know, stop and we're serious.
You know, this isn't up for discussion.
This is the end.
This is the, you're done.
You know, and he said, to prove the point, there's someone I want you to meet.
And he took me in this other room and there was like an exam table.
And they had me sit on it.
And I'm like, you know, it's an exam table.
I'm thinking they're bringing in a doctor.
And I'm thinking, okay, this might be a mind control thing or something.
Who knows?
You know, some medical thing.
Or, you know, administering drugs.
You know, and I'm like, oh, God.
And I'm sitting on this table.
And he walks out.
And in walks this big reptilian.
Who comes up to me.
Looks in my face.
Now, I'll say this first.
Nothing happened.
What actually happened is he looked in my face, pushed me back, stared in my face, and backed off.
Just for clarity, because I want everyone to know that what I'm about to say was a mental projection didn't actually happen.
What I thought at the time was he pushed me back on the table, climbed up on me.
He was a big guy, you know, seven foot broad, you know, built like this.
I just heard someone else say with the giants and that whole thing, when you go up, you go out too, you know, so they're broad, you know, just for that massive size.
Right.
So when someone's seven foot, their shoulders are like this, you know.
And...
Like a linebacker with a pro football, you know, that kind of thing.
And he pushed me back, and I thought I was raped and brutally murdered and ripped apart limb by limb, and he took one of his black fingernails and sliced me down the middle and started pulling out my organs.
But at some point I went, and I'm screaming, and I'm going, at some point I realized, well, I can't feel this.
This should hurt.
I'm not feeling this.
And that's what made me go, this isn't real.
And then he backed up.
But for a moment, I thought I was being brutally ripped apart.
So he planted this memory that would traumatize you.
This mental projection, yes.
And yes, to traumatize me.
And when he backed off, as soon as I realized this isn't real, I can't feel it, this should hurt.
And I'm screaming, but I realize, you know, when a guy rips your arm out of your socket, you know, I'm like, wink, this, you know.
And so he backed off and stood there.
So when the captain in the other room, before bringing him in here, said, to prove our point, there's someone we want you to meet, this was the thing.
And then after this guy backed off, he walked away and the captain came back in and said, next time, that'll be real.
What Misha had happened, she'd been put in the other room.
Right away they brought in the reptilian.
It came up and stared in her face.
The next thing she thought, I mean, she totally thought, she was standing in the apartment.
She has two grown sons, one with, at the time, a little baby.
Now they both have big families, but a little baby.
She thought that she was standing in their apartment.
One was kind of on down with Lex, who was living with his brother temporarily.
So the young family, the wife, husband, little baby, and then the brother temporarily living with them.
She thought she was staying there, and she was like, well, I've been transported to my son.
She's already saying hi, or whatever, or what the hell's going on here?
And all of a sudden, she said, like, she says, like, ninjas, guys all in black, faces covered, everything broken through the door, the windows came through on ropes, like, swinging from the roof, boom, came in, had knives, and she witnessed her family being brutally murdered in front of her.
And at some point, and blood everywhere, and at some point she goes, and they were screaming, and she goes, wait a second.
And her actual thought, because at the time those commercials rang on TV, this isn't live, this is Memrex.
Because she realized she couldn't hear them.
She said, they're screaming, and I don't hear them.
She goes, this isn't real.
And she's screaming, and she goes, there's no sound.
And everyone should be screaming.
And she goes, this isn't real.
And as soon as she realized this isn't real, the same thing.
He backed off of her.
And then the captain came in and said...
Stop this or that will be real.
Basically, same thing to her.
That's very interesting.
So this kind of thing that you guys both remember, did you remember it again on your own or with the help of regression?
A little bit of conscious memory and then also regression.
Both.
Okay.
Yeah.
It wasn't purely regression.
We had a little bits and pieces.
We had the evidence of the coffee table.
It was the next day that she went back home and realized, even though she'd locked all the locks on her door and everything was loose, and she could push the door open, and she goes, and the deadbolt's sticking out, and she's like, I locked the deadbolt, but you can just push it open.
And then she realized it had been pulled away, and that's when she realized all that damage was there.
We're almost surprised, but I guess when we left there that day, you know, you'd leave, you lock your door behind you, you know, it just wasn't paying attention.
But it's when she came home that she went, wait a second, what's all this damage to the door?
Okay, but...
And this is, let's say, quite a number of years ago now, right?
2000.
This is 2017, for God's sake.
It's amazing to think time goes by.
Yeah.
So...
You both didn't stop, I take it.
No.
Well, no, she did.
Okay.
It'd be a long, detailed story, but...
No.
At first she didn't, but it...
She had more happen in her life.
It got much worse.
And just as one example, she went on a blind date with a guy.
She went online, thought he was a researcher.
A guy shows up, he's wearing a military uniform, proceeds to sit down at a restaurant with her and give her detail of what her two sons and their families do every day, what time they leave home, where they go to work, how they drive, the streets.
In other words, they're monitoring the family and said, you continue to talk, they're all dead.
Stop.
Stop.
And so, you know, they knew what was going on in her life.
And other things.
That was just, I mean, there were like 10 more things that happened that just hurt.
She was pushed off the road on the freeway driving between LA and Vegas and ran into a tree in a ditch and the trucker witnessed it and said, this car tinted windows came along and actually pushed her off the road.
A van.
A van with tinted windows.
And luckily a trucker witnessed it.
A couple different people witnessed it.
She had a full police report.
That a car had deliberately pushed her off the freeway.
You know, and that.
So just other things.
But it got obviously really intense.
I think the reason it got more intense for her is she had...
I mean, she met in the hallway.
She was the one with me yesterday.
Oh, right.
Yeah, up at Miles.
Okay, yes.
So that was her.
And she had a background in the MKUltra program.
And had started to look into that and had a couple years of missing time out of her life and married to a man she didn't remember being married to.
It was all part of the program.
He was a government agent.
She kind of already knew that.
And she started to really look into and recover those parts of her life.
And I think that's why they came down on her so hard, was not to look into that.
It was also early days back in 2000 for this type of recall.
Yes.
Back then, because back then, as I recall, they were still concentrated on, oh, look, there's a craft flying over our heads.
You know, what is the craft?
They didn't even care about the, they didn't want to hear about the abductions.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
That was very, that was very much talked to prior to 2000.
No problem there.
No, no, abduction research.
Was a part of all these conferences and everything going back to the 1990, you know.
Maybe so, but there was a big stigma that was in the UFO community for a long, long time.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, prior to that, but it was out in the open by 2000.
But the MyLab part, yes, Helmut Lambert had already written his book.
That was out prior to that.
And Carla Turner had already done her work.
But really...
Well, shoot, my lab stuff still isn't talked about.
I mean, we haven't really progressed this subject that much since then.
Right.
Other than now more people are familiar with the terminology.
But, you know.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
So, well, and we're doing this interview for this purpose to bring this around.
So let's fast forward back to today.
So these are the things that have sort of impacted your work and brought you to where you are today.
Well, you know, it was my own, my first two MyLab experiences, well, that I knew of for certain, were August and November of 1993.
And it was my going, what just happened?
And looking into those that started me down this path.
I started to meet other people who had experiences, became friends with Carla Turner, ended up as a chapter in Helmut's book, etc., etc.
So that's what started all that, was those two experiences in 1993 started me on a self-investigation.
What's happening to me that I then met other people?
I never set out to say, oh, I'm going to be a researcher of this.
It's just from then until now...
Kind of by default, it's like I'm almost the last man standing.
I know the feeling.
Let's fast forward now.
Where are you at with all of this now?
Like I said, that timeline, realizing it's now I'm interested.
I've always been gathering the cases with evidence, physical evidence for their cases, and that's what I try to emphasize in my lectures and presentations.
But this whole thing about people being recruited and how deep it goes, and this is not to say, oh, I'm trying to be current in ufology or anything, but it gets into very much, like you said, super soldiers, secret space program, and why disclosure's not happening.
So my thing is now is I'm trying to, in my lectures, have people understand how deep this goes, how involved, That they're reverse engineering this advanced technology to the trillions of dollars in these underground bases, feeding it to military purposes and to the aerospace community and corporations.
And to quote one insider who spoke at this very conference, International UFO Congress, many years ago, It was the infamous Gordon Novell who actually said this.
I'm quoting him.
He said, it is the goose that laid the golden age for black projects and nobody wants their funding to go away.
Meaning UFOs and crash retrievals and everything.
So I think that's it.
When he said that, I'm like, that's truth coming out of him right then.
So I said, you know, they don't want their projects to go away.
They don't want their funding to go away.
And this, so we're talking about the whole secret space program, the whole shadow government stuff, their involvement, their involvement with the ETs.
I mean, in these experiences, seeing ETs and underground bases is common.
Everybody sees it, you know.
So you go, wait a second, there's an involvement.
This is deep.
This is everything about, everything on the surface is, pardon my language, bullshit.
It's all just, you know.
Puppet shows, hand puppets for your entertainment.
And the rest is, you know, so you have this whole, the shadow garment, breakaway civilization, whatever you want to call it.
You have the secret space program.
And again, it gets into...
Why disclosure is not happening?
That they're profiting from it?
How advanced is the technology?
So it's like, yes, I start with this because it's still what it's always been to me, which is helping the people who've had experiences and some of the greatest evidence in support of the fact there are alien abductions.
Because if alien abductions weren't real, why would all this be happening?
But now it's gone into...
I have a lot to say about why there's no disclosure, the secret space program, super soldiers, it's gone much further.
Yeah, and mind control and so on and so forth.
All right, so let's actually look at the Trump administration.
Do we have to?
Well, you know, for the purposes of this dog and pony show that is going on and whether or not, I'm just curious, being a fellow researcher in a sense, Whether you see any hope, because I see this is sort of a part of the military.
He's backed by a part of the Navy.
I don't know how much you know about what brought him to office and so on.
Yes, yes, yes.
And so there are at least two major sides to this underground, secret government, secret civilization.
I'm totally on board with all that.
Yes.
Yes.
And they were somewhat at war with each other, continue to be, and now another one is on top.
They've kind of switched, okay?
Do you see any hope whatsoever in this switchover?
And if not, if not, why not?
Okay.
And that's no problem because I may actually agree with you.
I almost think...
Go ahead.
Truth is, I don't know.
Sure.
Bottom line is, I don't know.
It's all be pure speculation, nothing from my research or anything.
I think he's such a loose cannon that he's not being briefed on it.
I'd be surprised.
Oh, really?
You don't think he's knowledgeable?
If he is, shock to me.
Okay.
Because I think he's...
Crazy.
Pretty much.
No, I don't think they'd brief him.
But maybe I'm wrong.
Maybe he does know him.
Maybe that's just an act.
I mean, I don't know what to think.
I think he's being briefed.
Maybe, maybe.
It's just in my intuition.
You know, we don't know.
We don't know.
I mean, Hillary knew.
I can say that.
Oh, Hillary knew.
And Bill.
She knew everything.
Where all the bodies are buried.
And Obama knew.
But this guy?
Hmm.
I don't know.
And maybe he does.
I don't know.
To me, it's such a loose cannon.
And it's like, I'm left going, maybe he will.
That would be great.
Maybe he knows Putin.
I wonder if it's going to be Putin, which would be problematic for us.
Well, okay.
I'm not so much asking if there'll be disclosure, but whether or not you see hope along the lines of this situation.
I hope that disclosure happens in yours and my life, that we both get to see it.
I don't see anything in the covert world that they're ending, like Gordon Novell said, and I hate quoting him because he's a lot of scumbag, but I'll just say.
You know what I mean?
He is dead.
Yes, yes.
I don't want to speak ill of the dead, but...
Whatever.
Yeah, whatever.
But I'm just saying, I'm just saying...
No, I didn't know he was dead, but I'm just saying...
You know, if it's the goose that laid the gold made for black projects and funding and everything I see in these underground bases, the technology, I don't see anything showing that that's going to end.
Those guys don't want that gain, that trillion dollar gain to end.
All right, but it's interesting to me that you actually think because of disclosure, it'll end.
It's not going to end anyway.
No, no, it won't.
Of course.
And it won't.
And it won't.
And you're right.
I'm sorry, but to say...
And I also, I'm very cautious.
I'll say this.
I'm very...
I'm concerned in some ways if disclosure comes from the current administration or any administration like the current one.
So whether it's 10 years from now or where, you know.
But because I'm concerned that we also, we want disclosure with the big B, the big announcement, as opposed to little disclosure.
First off, let's address that.
I think disclosure has been happening all along.
That it's been a 20 or 40 year plan.
Well, we are disclosure.
Yeah.
Well, no, I also think from the inside.
I mean, you have all the, you know, I don't need to tell you.
Every single whistleblower says, I was told to come out and say this.
Right.
Corey's saying, I was told to come out and say this.
Bill, you house.
I was told to come out and say this.
William, I was told.
I mean, every single, I could, you know, David or Derek, whoever it is.
I could list all of them.
They're all saying, I was told to come out and say this.
I can't say everything, but I can say this much.
Right.
We're getting that across the board.
So I'm like, wait a second.
There's this plan on program.
Not to mention the media, movies, television.
Yeah, exactly.
The steady stream of trying to...
Yeah, exactly.
So I think we're getting small de-disclosure.
There was a game plan.
We're on track.
So everyone says, we want disclosure.
I said, I think we're in disclosure already.
But whether the official announcement...
Sometimes I want to say, be careful what you ask for.
It may not be the truth.
It may be a carefully packaged lie.
Sure.
And what will it say about abduction?
Where do the abductees fall in this?
Yvonne Smith is doing this whole abductees rights thing.
I'm so on board.
I'm like, we've got to start thinking about that.
And all of the abduction research community has got to say, what are the rights of these people?
The X-Men side of things.
I mean, that's the reality.
We're very, very quickly approaching that in society.
I think even the military and secret military would acknowledge that.
And I think they're concerned about that element of things.
Because not only are the children coming in with special powers.
And the hybrid kids.
Yeah, that's what I'm talking about.
So we're talking about...
And our own powers are getting augmented as well as waking up the dormant powers.
So at what point is...
Is that embraced or for that spin, for that control, for that manipulation, is that demonized?
Sure.
And that's a concern to me.
Yes.
Well, it goes along with what's going on right now with the whistleblowers.
Yes.
Trump, one minute I hear from people saying, oh, you know, Snowden's coming back to the U.S. is going to be pardoned.
The next minute I hear that all leakers, it was just like on the news last night, all leakers are going to be punished.
Yeah, you said that.
We're tracking them down.
What's always been the catch-22 in what I do, and I guess what you do as well, but specifically in my area, is that...
they cannot prosecute me for being a journalist revealing whistleblower testimony or the whistleblowers I bring to the fore.
Because if they did, they'd have to acknowledge that they were telling the truth.
Yeah.
And so that means disclosure in a word.
Well, you know, and that's why I tell some of the people with these experiences and those people who've been recruited or people who are in the military.
I mean, don't even get me started, but the whole Betwaters thing is an alien abduction my lab case.
Hello.
Because nuclear weapons were stored there.
But I'm just saying, so I'm trying to say, you guys, by talking about this, you're ahead of the game.
You're doing that before they do.
Or like you said, the whistleblower is saying, you know, this is, you know, by saying it, because then if they come after you, Then it's proving you're right, you know, and they're not going to.
Right, exactly.
They can't.
They won't even take you into a court of law.
I mean, that happened with Gary McKinnon.
Yes.
You know, the bottom line is they couldn't have him testify in a trial that basically he was, you know, tapped into all this information.
It was actually their non-terrestrial officers.
Well, there's some unique...
Fleet to fleet transfers.
Yes.
Because basically then it's true.
So the last thing they wanted him to do, so in a certain sense, going for the Asperger's defense, was trying to basically discredit him as a witness from the get-go.
So it may have been a brilliant tactic by his legal team to get him off, but at the same time, it was inevitable that they would let him off, because they could not bring the guy into a courtroom and risk What he could say.
Well, you know, you mentioned Snowden earlier.
It makes me think of that too.
And can they really do that if they're going to prosecute?
He said, I'll come back if there's a public trial.
Well, I'm trying to get an interview with a guy.
And I'll fly to Russia to do it.
But so far, not happening, right?
But why not?
Because what do I deal with?
I'm going into areas, they don't want Snowden.
In a sense, he may not be...
and backed by the military and what he's doing, although some people think he is, but I can guarantee you they don't want him to go into this area. - Oh yeah, no, no, no, no.
Well, and I'm wanting, I don't know, maybe because I'm not, yes, I've been threatened, but not like those guys.
You know, I just wanna, I feel like I wanna say, there's a camera, you know, to those out there who are whistleblowers or an insider, my God, if you can come out on this dude, The world needs to know this.
So, you know, that gets to, do I think disclosure should happen?
Absolutely.
We need it.
We need it in our lives.
We need to get off the petroleum-based economy and, you know, the petrodollar, blah, blah, blah.
You know, worldwide, it's about the world coming together.
It's a time for all the nonsense and the lies to end.
I think that's one good sign about this election.
It was the beginning of people starting to wake up and go, we're being played.
Yes.
And it's still the two sides, and they're not sure how they're being played, but at least they're questioning it.
And that's a good start.
And the good thing with Trump saying, questioning the media, the mainstream media, which has been guilty, you know, and bought and paid for so over and over again.
The thing is, he's choosing which ones as opposed to saying it's all of them, you know, whatever.
But I think people see through that.
But again, I just want to say, if you've If you've had an involvement with the UFO subject, if you can say anything about it, come out and bring credibility to the subject.
Present evidence and support of what you've been through.
Speak openly.
You'll have them.
She'll talk to you.
She'll interview.
She'll get it out there.
Just because it's time.
We need to know Enough with the bullshit.
And look what all is going wrong inside of it.
I mean, just in my research alone, I always harp on this, but it's unconstitutional, immoral.
People are being harmed.
People have been killed over this subject.
I mean, it's nuts.
Oh, yeah.
And, again, I'm concerned with how disclosure will unfold for the abductees, and I think I'm going to start becoming more active in the abductees' rights and whatever, because that needs to be discussed.
That needs to be, as soon as we're moving in that direction, we are moving in that direction, so it needs to be discussed now.
If anything, we're behind the game.
But if there's an official disclosure, there's got to be a game plan already for that, or at least people being outspoken for it and everything, because I think People who've had direct ET contact become a significant risk, depending on how they spin it.
I agree completely, and it's wonderful to hear you say that.
In other words, I think we're actually at a new juncture here in world politics, etc.
First of all, one of the things is you cannot read anything that goes on in the world In the politics, in economics, in you name it, without bringing in the ET relationship with our government and with the people.
Sure, I agree.
They are totally immersed in the various races.
And the control and suppression of the technology that would take us out of poverty, would take us out of wars, would take us out of starvation, etc.
I mean, it's just nuts.
So the fact that it's so much part of the question and so much part of the topic, but it's the, as they say, elephant in the room that never gets touched on by, you know, a good, you know, where the alternative, the big split between alternative and it's only the alternative that will go where we go.
Yeah, well, you know who just did a brilliant presentation today?
And I'm more than willing to give credit where credit is due.
Rich Dolan did one on the media involvement today and talked, everything we're mentioning right now, he covered in spades and he did very well.
Excellent.
Okay, good to hear.
Very, very well.
And it was an amazing talk because he addressed this and, like you said, the elephant in the room and media spin and how that spin has changed and developed over history from how the media dealt with it And how it's changed, you know, whether that go back to the 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, all the way up to the current media, and how it's being addressed.
And shame on them.
Shame on them.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Once we do have any more official type disclosure, if anything is leaked out that is substantial in our sector and can't be denied, then you're going to have a spin.
Again, the same media guilty of further spin upon what we're really talking about here.
And that can be very detrimental to the...
You know, in other words, there's going to be good and there's going to be some very negative things come out of it.
The future is going to play itself out.
What I wanted to say about this to you is we're going from a time of intense research, intense disclosure in our sector.
Okay.
Personal disclosure, et cetera.
Disclosure by people like myself and you, being interviewed, doing presentations, et cetera, to a more active role, a more activism, if you will.
Yes.
Where this is now suddenly something that people are living their lives according to and Is becoming an everyday situation that has to be dealt with.
There has to be, you know, you have to have possibly, you know, laws.
You have to, you know, everything has to change.
And I'm glad that we're not alone.
I see other people in ufology at least.
You know, aside from the other areas of subject that we cover, let's just, within the ufology arena, starting to go that direction with it.
Sure.
You know.
So, it's great talking to you.
Thank you for having me.
Sure.
Well, thank you for having me.
Yeah, absolutely.
Let's have you back on the show.
You know, I also broadcast live, as you know, over my YouTube channel, which is huge.
Yeah, sure.
So thank you so much.
Thank you for having me.
And it's been really lovely.
Thank you.
Thank you.
I'm glad we, you know, it's nice to be able to go there with this discussion and talk about those things we just ended with because those things aren't often talked about enough.
So thank you for allowing me to, for taking it there in the conversation.
Absolutely.
And thank you for your service to humanity.
Oh, you too.
Amen.
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