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Dec. 14, 2016 - Project Camelot
01:43:04
WALTER BOSLEY: ENCOUNTER - former AFOSI Agent
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Time Text
Thank you.
Walter say hi to everyone.
Hello everyone.
Hi, Carrie.
Hi.
Okay, sorry, kind of botched that beginning there.
Alright, so I've just been madly doing all kinds of things, so I'm going to read your bio here.
You are an investigator of the historical occult mysteries, an author of pulp fiction novels, and a screenwriter who has appeared on History Channel's Ancient Aliens.
You spent nine years in national security.
You're a licensed private investigator in California, and you also run a small press publishing company called Lost Continent Library, founded in 2002.
You've traveled through much of the world, including trips through Mexico and South America with David Hatcher Childress, and have written some articles, apparently, in what's called Wex Magazine, and you were in what's called Wex Magazine, and you were born in San Diego, California, have a B, A in journalism, and you joined the FBI.
At a certain point, you were an inactive reserve officer in the Air Force, and you were a And you also served as Special Agent of AFOSI and then worked in counter-terrorism as an operational consultant for six years following your military service.
So you've written many books actually and your books I've got linked on Amazon on my website.
So that kind of gives the brief overview of who you are and if you wouldn't mind Really share some of what you have in terms of who you are and your background.
Well, just let me correct a small bit of that.
It was actually 19 years in national security.
All right.
I'm an inactive reserve officer now while I was on active duty.
I was active as an officer while also an OSI agent.
That pretty much sums it up as far as what I'm writing or have been writing.
I have investigated a local mystery here in Southern California that really led to all sorts of world history connections.
And really, even though it may not seem like it at a glance, there are many things that connect all these things I've written about.
The occult mystery, the breakaway civilization history, and the esoteric engineering of Disneyland.
All these things are oddly tied together, and they've been keeping me busy for about 10 years now, pretty solidly.
Okay, well, you are, let me say that I've read a couple of your books now, and I think you're a fabulous writer.
Thank you.
Actually, fascinating writer, doing things that, coming at things, I guess you might say, a different way.
Then a lot of people do and I find it really fascinating to read what you've got to say.
This latest book, let me say that your latest book is fascinating and is diving into the sort of UFO scene in a way that you probably haven't in the past as far as I know and involves your father and Is really an excellent book.
And I just want to say that you draw a lot of...
You do things like connect the dots.
Because you're an investigator and you're a trained investigator, it's a joy to see you connect the dots.
And I sent you a whole list of stuff that I was kind of looking at and comments I had made on what I was reading while I was reading it.
And so on, because I was quite excited by the way you investigated the story.
And I think it would make quite a good movie, actually.
So, I see you're a script writer, so you might think about that.
At any rate, why don't you tell the audience something about this new book and why you got into writing it in the first place?
Well, first of all, thank you for the kind words about it and my other works.
I try to get the material out there and to present everything as objectively as possible.
This particular book, as you said, this one's more personal in that it's a story that I had heard over the course of many years, a few decades, as a matter of fact.
From my father.
And it, over the years, influenced my view of the whole UFO mystery, are we alone, those kinds of questions, those classic things we ask in ufology.
And I finally decided that it was time that I took a really close look at it and I tried to give my definitive presentation and statement that I could make on the issue.
I feel confident that I have done that, that I presented all the angles I could think of to support it.
As is, or perhaps explain what it might actually have been, this story of his.
And along the way, I found some very interesting and unexpected corroborating circumstances and pieces of history.
So it really is different from my other books.
And, you know, I hope that it With the readers raises the same questions that it raised with me.
Well, let me say that at the moment, what you came across was information that has been out there in other forms, right?
Yes.
But you are someone who is, oh gosh, I just kind of blew up this thing.
Anyway, who kind of came forward in a way talking about your father's direct experience with what appears to be Uh, beings from under the earth or from another planet even, possibly.
And you don't answer all the questions.
You kind of follow the mystery as far as you can take it and then you kind of leave it a little open, which I think is a good way to go.
Because nothing is sort of written in stone, so to speak, about the incident.
And you do explore mind control as an aspect of the experience your father had.
And then you also, you kind of go at this also from the standpoint of the emotional life, how it affected your father in his entire life, and therefore also must have Affected you and his family.
I think that's pertinent to today because we have a lot of Experiencers out there, you might call them.
And a lot of people having all kinds of things happen to them.
And it does affect their way of looking at the world.
It affects the way they perhaps deal with the world and deal with their children, etc.
And so I want to encourage people to watch, to read this.
And like I said, that's why I think it would make a good movie.
Because in a sense, it's very multidimensional, the story you're telling.
Certainly, the way I approached it was either the story is true on the face of it, the way he tells it, or it's a planted narrative, and I get into why I think that in the book, and we'll get into that tonight a little bit,
or it was just the product of a dream he had, his imagination, and Really had no bearing on what he was doing for the Air Force at the time or anything that really happened.
As I got deeper into the research and working on the book, I personally came to the conclusion that it wasn't just something that popped out of his head, pure imagination from a dream.
There had to be something there that is the nugget of truth Upon which, you know, either the planet narrative was built upon or the years, you know, as he passed through the years and tried to remember the story that, you know, whatever deviation there was, there's something there.
That was what I became convinced of, that there's something there.
And going about it from that perspective...
I still tried to be objective and consider the planted narrative that it was just something that was layered in his psyche to cover for a classified project.
I tried to be as honest as I could.
This is a book about my dad and even though the story he tells on the face of it is a lot of fun in many ways, I felt like I had to be honest and present The argument that it could have been just something that was created and put in his mind.
Right.
And what I wanted to do here, if you're willing, is actually...
I wanted you to tell the story however briefly you can do it.
In other words, not so much the story in your book, because that's the investigation after the fact, but at least the vignette in terms of what your father...
Ultimately told you about what happened to him so that we can kind of launch this discussion and the people listening will know what we're referring to, so to speak.
Okay?
Sure.
Well, between 1974 and probably about the year or so before he died in 2008, I had heard this story.
And essentially it's this.
In 1958, when he was on active duty in the Air Force, he was stationed at George Air Force Base in Victorville, California, and he had to go to Gunter Air Force Base in Montgomery, Alabama, for advanced training.
Now, his specialty, his job title was physiological training specialist, and essentially what he did was put pilots through the altitude chamber, But he would also train them on the use of their pressure suits and the oxygen delivery systems, you know, the masks and stuff.
And he would help maintain that equipment.
And he was becoming a, he had been an apprentice training specialist and he was going to become a supervisory physiological training specialist.
So that required a course at, I think it was six weeks.
At Gunner Air Force Base in Montgomery, Alabama, and it was while he was there, this was in the summer of 1958, while he was there, an issue came up, and he and a couple of other guys had to go to Texas to get some type of briefings and to do some aviation medicine stuff there,
because Texas was Randolph and Kelly were bases that were deeply involved in aviation medicine, which was the field he fell under in what he did.
Well, the plane took off and somewhere over Louisiana or Mississippi, it banked northward.
An intelligence officer came out from the forward cabin and informed them that they were going to Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, not Texas.
So they go to Ohio and they get there and he and these guys were briefed on what we know as Roswell.
They were shown the bodies.
They were shown debris.
They were told that this had happened again out in Arizona.
And so off to Arizona they went.
One distinction he makes is that these were not extraterrestrials.
They were a parallel civilization, a hidden group of people on this planet that had crashed in 1947.
And so they were sent out to Arizona.
To be involved to be part of a search and rescue operation, which the US Air Force was running, to help find the pilot of this downed craft of this hidden civilization.
So they go there to a subterranean, I wouldn't call it an installation or facility, it was more of a field operation that was being conducted.
So they were in the subterranean realm, so to speak.
You know, huge caverns, huge subterranean spaces is the way he described it.
And while under there, on this operation, he and the other guys kind of unexpectedly encountered some of the people that are down there.
And it ended tragically with one of the guys with him These people were human.
The people that he was shown from the Roswell crash, he described as human as we are, they were just essentially hairless.
Their bodies were devoid of hair.
But he said they were human beings.
And the people that he encountered under the ground in Arizona, in the incident in which the Air Force guy was killed, They were humans as well, but he described them as blind with all their other senses enhanced because, you know, like a bat, they live underground most of the...
Well, in this case, these people were always underground, so they really didn't need vision, but the other senses were developed.
And in this tragic incident, one of the individuals in the group of others, I'll call them, Was holding a tube, what my dad described as a tube, and when the two groups walked up on each other essentially in the underground and startled each other, the US Air Force guy lifted his gun just as kind of a reaction.
And the man from the other group of people raised this tube and pointed it at the guy and he just kind of shut off.
He was, as my dad described it, dead before he hit the ground.
And That's usually where his story would end.
It was right after that.
In the book, I, of course, share that a source of mine with over 40 years in the intelligence community who was my mentor, he told me that something had happened And my dad was released from this operation, but he never told me specifically what that was.
In my opinion, in my analysis, it probably had to do with this incident in which the guy was killed.
But that's essentially the story.
I can tell you that for years it stayed consistent all through his tellings.
I did draw more of it out of him, probably the last 10 years of his life.
Specifically in the last three or four years of his life and the conversation he would always insist that these were not extraterrestrials, that they were not a threat,
that they were as human as we are and you know he didn't understand why this thing was kept so secret but he also Had said that when they came to us, when their pilot went down in 1958, that it was their request that they remain unknown to the people on the surface, and that they really didn't want to have anything to do with us.
And that's pretty much, in a nutshell, the basic story there that, you know, he told me all those years.
Right.
But now, it actually seemed to really affect him in a drastic way, and it stayed with him, according to your book.
Even to the extent that you are an investigator, you know, in this life and possibly even moved to get into that line of work vis-a-vis what happened to your father, these unexplained things.
You also go down the road, as I said, of mind control and how that may play a role here.
I also want to ask you a direct question in terms of the bodies themselves because One, the bodies he saw at Roswell, he described as hairless, and that is consistent with other people's descriptions.
But recently I had Douglas Dietrich on my show.
He thinks they were Japanese and they were prisoners of war.
But no one has ever said, to my knowledge, other than Douglas, that they look Japanese or Oriental in their facial features.
So I'm asking you, did your father ever refer to them as looking Oriental?
No, never.
Okay.
And the other thing is that, you know, there are a lot of questions I have going along the way, but I am interested and I think the audience would be interested to know that, in essence, so a person died in front of him.
He then was brought back to the surface, presumably, and then had also a mind control element that you did track down and were sure of and that your friend, forget his name, had verified because whenever the moon was full, you told me, or it was in the book, that he was reprogrammed.
Could you talk about that part of it?
Sure, yeah.
What it was specifically was that The individual who I identify as, Colonel Lundy, that's not his real name, who I identify as Colonel Lundy in the book, around 1996 or 97, told me that they had used hypnosis on my dad to suppress the memory of this operation.
And I'm still connected to you, right?
I just lost picture.
Oh, all right.
Yeah, you're connected.
Yes.
Yeah, you did.
You have gone offline.
I'm not sure what's going on with that.
Let's see.
I'll turn my...
Do you see if your camera has a slash on it all of a sudden or anything?
I see you.
My...
No?
Well, I'm not seeing a camera icon on the screen that I'm seeing.
Okay, that's interesting.
You're filling the screen.
Sorry about this.
Yeah, I don't know what's happening other than hanging up and calling you back.
I'm not sure how to get your camera back online.
I'm not worried about it if you're not.
Okay, so we've got you in a picture, so we can go on with this if that's okay.
Sure, yeah.
I was told about 20 years ago that they used hypnosis to suppress this episode of my dad's life to keep him from remembering it and talking about it as long as possible, and that this suppression was keyed to The full moon, essentially.
Every time he would look up and see the full moon, ostensibly for the rest of his life, the hypnotic suppression would be reactivated.
And when you consider that he started telling the story in 1974, it apparently held pretty good for 16 years.
And...
Actually, you know, almost 30 when you consider that I didn't really start, you know, pumping him hard with interrogation techniques, soft interrogation techniques.
It's really subject interview type stuff.
You know, it's a way of talking with someone and you're interrogating them, so to speak, without them really knowing it.
And I would apply these to my dad, and that's another reason why I'm convinced that he 100% believed what he was telling.
But this hypnosis held.
I was told by Colonel Lundy that they knew that over time it would eventually break down, and that's part of the reason he was encouraging me to get my dad to talk about it more.
Well, I mean, can we ask a little bit about the Colonel Lundy individual in the sense that I'm assuming you want to keep him somewhat confidential.
Is that correct?
Yeah, I'm not sure if I'm really at liberty to identify him.
He did pass away earlier this year in March.
He spent over 40 years in the intelligence community.
He was my mentor.
Who I've, I think, mentioned in books and have talked about in interviews in the past.
And he was really the guy that got me started in my career and guided me all the way.
And he's the one that I would bounce things off of as things would pop up, particularly strange things.
For instance, Wilson.
The shadowy figure of Wilson, or A. Wilson, because there's more than one of them, popped up in this in 91, when my dad was hospitalized for a blood clot.
And when I went to see him in the hospital, he was under heavy sedation and just really kind of half out of it.
And he was muttering some very strange things, but he kept talking about Wilson, Wilson.
And so...
This is an example of the kinds of things.
I contacted Colonel Lundy and told him about this.
Lundy told me, keep him from talking about that subject when anyone else is in the room, but when you're alone with him, see if he'll tell you more about it.
As I say in the book, I asked, well, who's Wilson?
I was told at the time, because it was over the phone, we'll discuss that later.
A couple years later, when I was able to get him to tell me the way he described Wilson was the most brilliant man alive that you've never heard of.
And, of course, I go into the Wilson of this story in the book, and I point out how he's probably connected to the Wilsons that I have written about in my books on the Breakaway Civilization.
Which, well, what is your book about the breakaway civilization?
I mean, I heard you mention that in the book several times, actually, the Wilson name.
And actually, I know someone named Wilson.
And so I'm wondering what is the link-up with breakaway civilization?
What are you surmising is the link-up to Wilson, this brilliant man who shows up in...
Well, somehow meeting your dad, is that correct?
Well, one of them, yes, absolutely.
In fact, this particular Wilson was in charge of the operation in Arizona.
Okay, so the one in which the person died?
Yeah, the operation that my dad was in Arizona, the big secret underground thing.
Wilson was the man in charge of that.
Essentially, When I was investigating my Empire of the Wheel books, a strange occult murder mystery that took place here in 1915, I came across evidence that the Airship Mystery Group was involved in this San Bernardino mystery.
Now, the Airship Mystery lore and material has been around for years, and Here it was popping up in my investigation on these occult murders.
Well, what I found was that in the aspect of the airship mystery that took place in the 1850s surrounding this mysterious group, the Sonora Aero Club of California by Yosemite, there was a Wilson in that group.
Now, this was a group, mind you, that...
Reportedly, allegedly, and all that, were building anti-gravity flying machines in the 1850s, the decade before our Civil War.
And here we have, you know, a guy named Wilson involved in this, a guy named Tosh Wilson.
So then you go 40 years later, and you have the airship mystery of the 1890s, and you have two more Wilsons.
Now, this airship mystery, these are a bunch of guys, a secret group, like the Sonora Aero Club, who are building anti-gravity Well,
then you come to my dad's story, 1958, and here he is on an operation being headed up by a man named Wilson, whose first name I didn't get.
But interestingly, my dad had encountered him at another time when Out in California here, when he was at George Air Force Base, this particular Wilson and his father, who was named Hiram, according to my dad.
See, there's the connection to the 1890s airship mystery lower there.
This Wilson, who my dad had encountered in the underground operation, This Wilson and his father had engineered these platforms that used, again, anti-gravity technology, and they had developed these for the Air Force.
And I talk about this in the book.
I talk about it in my Breakaway Civilization book that I did, Origin, that came out last year.
So here you have these Wilsons who are involved in anti-gravity technology in what is ostensibly three different, you know, stories, the airship, you know, lore, and then of course the mid 20th century with my dad.
And, you know, it was kind of astonishing to me because, you know, initially I was researching a cult murder Here's this airship group.
There's circumstances and evidence that points to the Sonora group and the 1890s group in this 1915 mystery.
That led to, in my second Empire of the Wheel book, I got into the NIMSA, the mysterious German group NIMSA, which was a rival airship group, in my opinion, to the 1890s group.
Then that led to the book I did last year, which was purely on what I think was the emergence of two breakaway civilizations in the 19th century.
The German Nimza and this American group that really probably rose out of the Sonora Aero Club when it broke up.
And develop their technology through the remaining years of the 19th century into the 1890s when they began to reveal their flying machines.
It's a fascinating story and you'd have to look at that whole book to do it any justice.
All right.
So what you're saying is we have this link that is interesting and Also, it's dealing with flying machines.
It's dealing with a German, similar development.
And all this is very interesting to me as I am editing, I just got back from interviewing in person, William Tompkins, who is a Navy-sanctioned disclosure witness, in essence.
He's not even a whistleblower.
He is actually, the Navy is basically putting him forward.
And they have a reason, supposedly.
So that's all very fascinating.
I'm going to be releasing that either late tonight or tomorrow morning.
What I wanted to say here is this link-up with flying machines.
And then you've got this group that your father met with somehow that had this high-level technology, a gun, some kind of a gun, right?
Or a wand.
Yeah, he described it as a tube, but as I talk about in the book, this thing has historical precedent, you know, the tube or the rod, the magic rod.
And then subsequent to my dad in the following decade in the 60s, there was a UFO encounter in which the witness who encountered two crew members of a UFO had his own experience with this rod device aimed at him.
And this thing is also mentioned in the local Native American lore of the Southwest.
So you've got my dad in Arizona encountering that, and it has a connection to ancient lore and local Native lore.
And you've got it popping up in, you know, UFO reports.
Right.
But there's also, you know, there's other link-ups there.
And I have to say...
With the Egyptians and, of course, the rod and the wand.
Because this is Arizona, interestingly enough, of course, we've got the whole mystery of the civilization in the Grand Canyon.
That may have been Egyptian and left behind Egyptian-like relics.
And there are other places underground in Arizona where there were other finds as well along those lines.
And interestingly, I had written to you about this, but I was recently interviewed for a television show that is going to deal with those hidden finds.
And I had some, I guess you might call downloads, but my interview did not appear to be a normal interview for a TV show.
It actually seemed like more of what you'd call a soft interrogation.
CIA style.
With regard to that.
So there are some link ups here that are very interesting.
And people who are, you know, investigators and are interested in going down these rabbit holes, of course, can...
Can take these clues and maybe run with them.
But I wanted to ask you if you were familiar with...
First of all, I had told you about the Tompkins book.
I don't know since when I told you about it, since now you had a chance to read it at all.
What I had the time to do was...
Look up Mr.
Tompkins and get kind of a basic good look at what he does.
I didn't read the whole book, but I was able to get the general story.
It's really interesting.
I would be interested in reading the book.
There's some documentation there that helps to at least serve the telling of his story, if not Flat out corroborate some of the implications.
Okay, well, I'm also wondering if you've heard the stories of, because you said, you know, it was dark and they were blind.
Now, how did your father know they were blind?
I'm wondering about that because, first of all, are you saying that it was dark where he was when he met with them?
So we're not talking about an underground base with like rail lines and lights, you know, nicely lit or any of that kind of stuff.
Right, right.
It was just a natural underground, you know, it was a habitat that these people were used to, but it was not a, what's the word, a developed area.
My understanding from what he told me is that it was not a developed underground installation where they encountered these people.
Now, to what degree they had developed it for or beyond the purposes of the search and rescue op, I don't know those details.
Okay, but when they entered this underground cavern or whatever, did they go downstairs?
Because you said it was on a base.
You've deduced, I think.
It's on a base.
No, that's my speculation.
What he told me, when you read the account he told me, see, that's the other part I get into, that Kind of suggests that maybe it was a planted narrative because we don't get those details.
Recall in the book that I say, it's interesting that we're told about the flight from Alabama to Ohio, but we are not told about...
He never told me, and neither did Colonel Lundy, about going from Ohio to Arizona.
And he never told me about when they got to Arizona...
You know, where the hole in the ground was that they went into.
It was just he's getting brief on Roswell and, you know, what was going on at the moment with the new crash that had happened.
And then the next thing we knew, you know, the next thing you know when he's telling the story is he's already underground in Arizona.
Now, this could suggest...
That this was a planted narrative because it's lacking in these details.
Well, I mean, but why is it a planted narrative?
If there was no flight from Ohio to Arizona, then he wouldn't be able to tell about that flight.
Yeah, but he has mind control that goes by the moon.
In other words, if you're wiping someone's mind, it's only so detailed.
It depends.
Now, this was back in the year 19...
58.
Right.
So how good they were at wiping the mind, how thorough they are, and whether they'd erase things that, in other words, they would have taken a chunk to wipe out, so to speak.
So the mind control would have taken care of, especially if they want to hide the location of the underground base.
Right.
You know, entrance.
It makes logical sense they would hide that part.
And he wouldn't remember that as part of mind control.
But it is interesting, he does remember the encounter in which, you know, this individual dies.
Right.
But human memory, as you may know, is selective.
I remember some things and not others.
But if you were to remind me, I might remember those others, right?
Sure.
And some people are also...
Some people are more physically based and some are more human interaction based.
You know what I mean?
So some people really latch...
I've noticed even this in...
And some of the people out there talking about things, I'm not going to name any names, but certain people talk all the time about, you know, the shape of the craft and the shape of the color of the walls and this and that.
But when it comes to the interactions, whether they be human or non-human, you know, it's very, very thin.
It's very interesting.
And this also sometimes is a male-female thing.
You know, women tend to be more heavily...
Into the social interactions and the nuances between people.
In your father's case, it sounds like he was maybe more humanly oriented just by nature of the way you describe him in the book.
I don't know whether you'd agree with that or not.
Yeah, he was more of, oh, more so than I am.
Led with emotion.
Not nearly as much as one of my sisters who, you know, seems to go right to thinking with emotions rather than reason or logic first.
My dad, you know, was somewhere in between myself and her, which would make sense because, you know, that's the parent that, you know, she got that trait from.
And I will add that, and I say it in the book, That that's the point of the story that he would get really emotional, the point where the guy got killed by the individual with this tube.
So that seemed to affect him very deeply, which is one of the reasons why I go into the possibility that what this wild story was might have been some, you know, psychological layer for just some tragic but more mundane type of incident with the mishandling of a weapon, which I have no evidence of.
Or testimony that the story he told me about these other individuals mishandling a weapon, not himself, had anything to do with this.
It was just something that I had remembered.
And my investigative mind says, well, hmm, you know, we got a guy killed by a strange underground person with this tube, and my dad gets very emotional about this incident.
And then I remember the story he would tell about the other guys who were goofing around with their weapons and one got killed.
And my investigative mind says, hmm, I wonder if these two might not be connected in some way.
And that's why I analyze that in the book.
Right.
But I have to say, with all due respect, I think that your father, as you describe him at least, I would tend to believe him first over this psychological overlay to explain some kind of...
Accidental killing or shooting.
Because of the nuances and all the things that you tell us, and of course, given my background and all the stuff I know, this is in keeping.
Now, we understand that there are cultures in what they call inner earth, and there are huge Even Tompkins is talking about this huge underground...
The earth is really riddled with underground bases and caverns that various beings have lived in and also excavated.
And I don't know if you've ever been to Malta where the Hypogeum is, but that's...
One such example.
And it isn't modern, the Hypogeum, not in the sense that we think of it.
It doesn't have, you know, installed lights or railroad tracks as far as I know.
But it clearly has some very...
You know, carved out in architectural areas.
Your father also refers to a, correct me on this, I think it was a helicopter, but I'm not sure, flying in inner earth or flying in the cavern.
And this does also tally with Bill Tompkins' testimony.
Surprisingly, not many UFO researchers have talked about flying vehicles.
They talk about a train all the time in underground bases.
Rarely do they talk about flying vehicles in underground bases.
But your father brought that up, right?
Right.
Oh gosh, yeah.
He told me that he had been trained to fly these helicopters, and this was reiterated by my source, Colonel Lundy.
And what was interesting was in the research for this book, I found the little helicopter, the Husky, that was operational at the time.
The U.S. Air Force was using them, and they were known for their maneuverability in tight, tough places.
Now, as vast as a subterranean chamber is, compared to being in an open sky, that would be considered probably kind of a risky area to fly something, and the Husky would be ideal.
So, you know, in my view, finding this Husky helicopter in the history, you know, that fit within the history of my dad's story, and in many other respects, it's very possible or probable that that it's very possible or probable that that might have been what he was talking about.
was this particular little helicopter.
So that was an exciting little piece of the puzzle that I found when I found it, I can tell you.
Absolutely.
Now, I can tell you that some of my contacts have talked about meeting with people from coming up from inner earth.
They've never been referred to as blind, though.
And there's also Anthony Sanchez, who wrote a book which I told you about, but I don't know if you ever had a chance to read, called UFO Highway, in which a colonel is reporting to him about a group of ETs, grays as they happen to be, and In an underground facility, an underground base, that were subsequently involved in battles and so on.
And this is not Dulce, actually, although it ends up to be similar to the Dulce story.
It's a different kind of more extended version of Dulce, I guess you might call it.
This colonel told Anthony Sanchez this story.
So it had to do with meeting, again, with beings...
From the underground area.
And so what I'm trying to say, I guess, in essence, is there's tons of information about underground places.
So the question is, it's not surprising that your father would go underground.
Now he was brought underground in connection with a crash, though, that happened on the surface.
Is that correct?
Yes, that's what he was told.
Okay, but he never saw the crash, the actual site of the crash?
He never talked about that.
Yeah, which is very interesting.
And was that in Arizona?
I mean, are we to assume that the crash and the underground area are somehow associated closely with each other?
Yeah, the crash was in the vicinity of where these people enter into the subterranean and, you know, exit.
And he didn't quite The particular individual did not quite make it back, and he crashed on the surface.
And they came to us, which essentially was the US Air Force in the area at the time, and asked for help to locate their pilot because they believed or somehow knew that he was still living.
And the deal was, okay, yeah, we will.
And the...
They said, look, you know, we've been here a long time.
We want nothing to do with you folks on the surface.
We want to keep this secret.
We don't want you to be telling people that we're down here and on and so forth.
That was part of what my dad told me.
In this story.
So it seemed to be as much a choice of this other civilization as it was any kind of, you know, clamping a lid by the US military.
Right.
But you tracked down the general vicinity that you thought this underground base is at.
Do you want to share that?
Yes.
As I state in the book, my dad had only described it as east of Winslow, Arizona.
And the nearest, the best candidate I can come up with for where my dad was talking about is Holbrook, Arizona.
And I think that somewhere in the vicinity of Holbrook was where This crash took place and where the entrance down into the subterranean world and this subsequent Air Force search and rescue operation took place.
Okay, and where is Holbrook in relation to Phoenix?
It's northeast.
If you go due north, And go a little bit east to Winslow and then essentially just do east from Winslow.
If you're familiar, you know, those of you who are familiar with where Winslow is, you just go east and you'll find Holbrook.
Okay.
Because, you know, again, I also interviewed John Edmonds who has this ranch out.
His ranch is actually, I think, southwest of Phoenix, if I recall.
But it's, and I think it's kind of near Tonopah.
But he, you know, had so many things go on to do with underground in and around his ranch.
So it's really a hotbed in Arizona, there's no doubt about that, for these really strange happenings.
Now, in terms of UFOs, did your father talk about UFOs back in those days?
Oh, that's what inspired the original telling of the story.
I recall we were living in West Virginia at the time.
My dad was from West Virginia.
And a couple of times in my childhood and youth, we moved back there for a couple of years or so at a time.
And this was the last time we had lived there.
And I recall it being...
In 1974, when he pulled out, you know, his old look in Life magazines about UFOs, and we were talking about that subject, and that's when he started talking about this the first time.
And, you know, for the next several years, that's when it would come up, when the subject of UFOs came up.
And obviously, you know, when the Roswell story...
Kind of became bigger in 1980.
That would always inspire it because he had said he'd been brief on that.
And he used to just shake his head and laugh every time he heard, you know, that it was attributed to extraterrestrials because he would insist consistently throughout the decades that Roswell had nothing to do with extraterrestrials.
Okay, but it had to do with these beings from inner Earth.
Is that correct?
Who he described as human beings who went underground a long time ago due to a cataclysm on the surface.
Yeah, that's how he described them.
That's what he said he was told they were.
All right.
And let's see.
In terms of the under...
I'm wondering, actually, how much investigation have you done or have you been, I guess, propelled to do With regard to underground bases around the US. And I think you, if I recall, I think you do mention a book by, I forget the author's name, but he's something of an expert on underground bases.
Yes, he is.
Dr.
Richard Sauter, who has done two books on this, and they're excellent books.
What makes his research stand out, and it makes it excellent, is that he documents everything in documents you can find, traceable documents from credible sources.
These two books are probably the best on the subject, And, you know...
Okay.
Those are my sources, yeah.
Yeah, and I've met Richard Sautter, and actually...
Well, I've invited him to do an interview...
He is an interesting guy.
That's just what I was thinking.
He's a bit on the gruff side.
He's not everyone's cup of tea to meet him, but I respect his academic work and his research because that's solid.
Absolutely.
I do want to say he was under a misapprehension about Camelot.
Because there was a Camelot project that I guess the military was involved in before we were even alive or whatever, when we were little children.
And the coincidence that we named our project Project Camelot and the fact that they called their project Project Camelot, he figured he thinks that we were part of the same project, which we are not.
And the genesis of how Project Camelot started was because we were Well, I've told it many times and I don't want to take the interview to tell it.
But, you know, just to say that it was interesting to me that Sautter would come.
He'd actually met me before I was in Camelot.
And so he knew me.
He actually knew me as a researcher and investigator back in those days.
And I do respect his work.
But he somehow got this idea in his head and then wouldn't let go of it and went on rents, I think, and started talking about it.
But it is completely absurd.
And yet...
Because I made up the name Project Camelot.
I took Camelot that was too prevalent on the web, and I was writing a screenplay called Project Moondust, which is a real project, I guess you know, from the Black Project area, and said, we're going to investigate whistleblowers and bring forward whistleblowers.
Let's put Project with Camelot, and there you have Project Camelot.
Little did I know about this other project.
So what happens is...
You mentioned this group of beings called the Tuatha Dé Danann.
The Tuatha Dé Danann.
Okay.
And is that Welsh?
Yeah.
Okay.
And I wondered whether or not you thought or you knew about Sitchin's investigation into what we call the Anunnaki, if you've been to Egypt, etc., And how you would describe these beings, and how does that work into the story?
Well, I see the Tuei de Danan as not the Anunnaki as are popular these days.
If anything, I see them in opposition to each other.
And this is the result of, you know, this is my personal impression from my research.
I let readers and listeners decide for themselves, let them take a look at it.
But the confusion sometimes people have is that Tuei de Nanan means Children of the House of Anu.
And because of that Anu, that A-N-U name, which actually refers to what the ancient Celts thought of as a goddess, but was just one of this race of beings.
Because, you know, Anu and Anunnaki...
I can see where people make that assumption, but when you really dig into the history of these two groups, these two races, beings, I prefer groups because they might be technically of the same race.
They are not, in my opinion, of the same group.
If anything, they oppose each other.
This opposition might explain This age-old war we hear about that went on between people from off-planet that ended up here.
So, in a way, the Tu E De Danane might be extraterrestrial in the sense that they probably are from elsewhere, not this planet.
But they're not the...
Classic E.T. Well, neither are the Anunnaki.
The Anunnaki are humanoid, according to Sitchin, of course.
Right.
I'm very familiar with his stuff, too.
Yeah.
All right.
They're just two different groups.
But I wonder what is the physical description of the beings.
And I'm seeing that they were Irish, it looks like, based on doing a really quick search here.
So they actually are Irish as opposed to wealth.
Well, the Irish are the ones that encountered them from whose lore that we know them in the lore, but they came from another realm, another world.
But were they underground peoples?
They went underground after they were defeated in a conflict after arriving from the sky.
Uh-huh.
Okay.
Yeah, I see.
You know, there's quite a bit of information about this race.
It does look like they're humanoid.
Yes.
Oh, yes.
Yeah, we can breed with them.
All right.
So are they, in terms of size, I don't see a description in terms of size.
Were they particularly tall or not?
Or were they, they weren't miniature people, were they?
No, they weren't miniature people.
A lot of times that happens when the conquering culture comes in and they have to, no pun intended, belittle the previous one.
That's how a lot of that happens.
Like when you say pixie, you think of, you know, this happy little sprightly elf thing, you know, that's maybe six inches tall flying around like a butterfly.
Right.
Well, pixie actually comes from the pixieed.
You know, the picks and the sheets and the combination of pronouncing the words.
And neither one of those two groups were these little butterfly wing tinkerbells that we're so used to seeing.
You know, these were full-sized tinkerbells.
You know, humanoid beings or human beings.
And that's what the Tuid and An were as well.
Okay, now, why do you bring them up in your book?
Is this the group that your father or is this you saying that you think that this might be the group he encountered?
Hmm.
Well, his description of encountering the, you know, you got the underground people with an advanced technology that's different from ours, but used in our world here.
The individual that he encountered with the tube, which corresponds to the rod of, you know, the wand of fairy lore, the rod of the Havmasuvs of the ancient Paiutes, or the ancient Paiute legends in the Native American Southwest lore.
And In ancient Greece, you know, the Rod of Hermes, and in the Egyptians, in all these, all these lores you have, you know, this being with the Rod, including the Tuat and the N. And in my other research, I have encountered them, and I realized in working on this book that I had been encountering them in my research repeatedly.
So based upon my dad's experience in total, Including the mind-wiping issue, you know, the suppressing of things, the wiping of memories.
Basically, it's the preponderance of all the circumstances and the details he gives.
Based on what I know of this race of beings, the Tue de Nanan, and my other research, to me...
It was my logical conclusion that he could very well have been dealing with them.
And I will add that the research and conclusions of Jacques Vallée for over 30 years have pointed to Wade and by his own very conclusions himself.
And I concur with that.
I think Vallée has been on to something that has been dismissed Because the ET hypothesis was much more popular.
But I think this needs to be reconsidered.
Well, it might interest you to know that Valet does acknowledge, in essence, ETs.
Of course he does.
I do too.
Yeah, extraterrestrials and intraterrestrials and interdimensionals, basically.
Inta, intra.
But what we're talking about here is also, just FYI, what I came across was Valet, of course, was part of the cover-up.
He was working for the military behind the scenes.
And I can't remember where I got this, so I'm not going to, you know, cite where I get it.
But in essence, that's what came forward about him.
So Jacques Vallée was actually very instrumental in what is, in essence, helping with the military cover-up of all of this kind of thing.
But it is interesting that he was willing to acknowledge this group, these Tuatha As you're calling them.
So, yeah, these are a fascinating group, no doubt.
Well, and your question was, why do I think my father encountered them?
And that's what I was answering to.
Right.
Colonel Lundy, I remember the night very well when he essentially told me there were six extraterrestrial civilizations in orbit around this planet that our people were liaisoning with.
I mean, I have never personally denied that ETs exist and that they come here.
I just don't think that they are the answer to as much or all, but certainly not all, but possibly not as much as they get attributed to.
That's usually my point.
But in the case of my dad, And in the cases that Valet has looked at, and in the stuff that I have looked at, and my experiences, and my research, I'm pretty confident that the two-way dinans are on the scene in all of this.
All right.
Well, I've just put a picture.
I don't think you can see it.
I'm not sure how to show it to you, but it's just from Wikipedia.
This is a picture that they claim is a painter who made...
This picture, his name is something like Duncan or John Duncan or something.
Anyway, this is a painting.
Is that the one with the four riders carrying the treasures of the Tuae?
Yes.
I'm very familiar with that.
All right.
Yeah, so I just put that on for people to see how that was being depicted, which is quite interesting.
So I also want to know if...
How did your mother...
factor in any of this because you're talking about him you know she would have spent more time with him even before you were born and I don't know how this happened like I think that you the children I'm not sure were alive I don't know I don't remember the chronology in terms of when this experience happened with him and then he had met your mother you said there was some kind of Link up there and so on.
So can you talk a little bit about that?
My mom was working as a civilian secretary on Maxwell Air Force Base, which is also in Montgomery.
And that's where I went.
It still exists.
It's where the Air War College is.
It's where I went to officer training school myself.
She was working there in 1958.
That's where they met when all this supposedly happened is when they met.
And She returned to California with him.
They got married in Victorville.
That was on August 19, 1958.
And my oldest sister wasn't born until August 18, 1959, the day before their first anniversary.
So, yeah, none of us were around.
When this happened and in talking with her I mentioned this in the book I think you know she's 82 years old and she's still you know very active she has a job she likes to work at every day and you know so her memory is still pretty good and she told me that when they were first dating when she was working at the base that they to her best memory they didn't see each other every day and every night there were Periods of,
you know, somewhere between two to four days when she wouldn't see him and he was busy with, you know, she assumed his training and such.
And I work that out in the book.
I go into the book and I say, well, here's how the briefing in Ohio could have happened, you know, without my mom, of course, being aware that he even, you know, was gone that long, you know, away from the base and such.
But really...
Not long after they were married, this was pretty much all over.
And as I say, I think in the introduction, you know, whatever they had done to him, you know, I was told by Colonel Lundy that this did affect his psyche a bit, his psycho-emotional state, and it exacerbated whatever, you know, was there.
So if my dad was prone to what we call bipolarism today, manic depression back then, This made it worse.
And Colonel Lindy had told me that.
And my parents got divorced, eventually.
He could be a moody guy.
And he ran around on her and stuff.
Right, but what I'm kind of curious about is...
And that might have been a manifestation of his...
A very bad, inexcusable manifestation of this issue.
Okay, but I still want to know, in other words, he told you these stories.
Was she aware of these stories?
Did she have a reaction to these stories?
In 1974, and through the 70s, up until about 1980, when he would first tell them, it was to myself and my sisters, and my mom was there in the room.
As time went on, it was clear to him that I was the only one that was really deeply interested in this stuff.
My one sister, I think it scares her.
My mom is just...
Neither here nor there with it.
And my oldest sister, the same way, she's very grounded in the material world.
She's not materialist, but she's just grounded in the regular world, so to speak, as we call it.
And I was the weird flighty kid who was real fascinated with this stuff.
So after 1980, it was pretty much me and him talking.
When we would talk about this, when it would come up.
Okay, so when you're saying your mother was neither here nor there, it sounds a little bit convenient, if you don't mind my saying so, because here you are, at least in the way you painted in the book, and I don't pretend to know all that much more about that,
but I can say that in terms of, if this is something that has affected his psyche so much, Completely and in certain ways and asked, you know, exacerbated certain psychological proclivities or whatever.
It seems like perhaps either she formed some kind of block against it or she would have some kind of buried deep relationship to the story itself.
In other words, either disbelieving it or knowing like and keeping her own counsel and Having known that there was secrecy, you know, that he wasn't supposed to be disclosing any of it or whatever.
You know what I'm saying?
In other words, are you sure?
Did you ever question her about the story itself?
Okay, but you're looking at this, you and I are about close to the same age, I would guess, right?
You're looking at this through the filter of your generation, our essential period.
Let's remember one thing.
My mother was born in 1934, and she was a southern girl.
She came from a different generation.
She's just coming from a different generation.
Women just, for good or bad, whatever the opinion is, from our perspective, we don't see it that way, right?
But from her perspective, it's just different.
Now, as I say in the book also, I didn't, none of us had any idea that he had been hypnotically MK ultra suppressed until 1996 or seven.
So you got to remember, she didn't know this had gone on.
None of us knew this went on.
I found it out from my source when I was an Air Force officer in the 1990s.
So when all of this was happening, You know, she had no idea.
None of us could have had any idea that it was related to anything with his Air Force service.
This is something that we learned, that I learned, many years later.
So, you know, with those two points, I think that right there explains and answers the questions as to why I say my mom was neither here nor there on it.
Okay.
You know?
She's not as scared as, like I said, one of my siblings.
I think it's scared about the spooky stuff, but you know, it's not something that It's not one of her topics she'll talk about.
She kind of just likes to keep it simple.
Okay.
What about this notion that...
I was fascinated when you first talked about your father and said he had these almost...
sounded close to miraculous sports skills.
Oh, yeah.
He was just a natural athlete is the point I was trying to make.
And honestly, anything he took up, he mastered.
He just...
It came easy to him.
Okay, and did you ever...
Again, this is how it gets into your background, what you know about the subject, etc.
But you know that, of course, the military does look for special skill sets when they recruit people.
Oh, yes.
And I would say that, you know, his skill set might also expand to some other areas.
So it's possible that there's still more to this story, I guess, is kind of what I'm saying.
Oh, sure.
I would agree with you.
Yeah, I would agree with you on that.
And why he was chosen, you know, why he ended up in that position, if the story is true, why he was there in the first place.
And I also want to throw out something else and see what your reaction is, which is, what about the notion?
Because, in essence, when one person dies, a lot of time there is some kind of skirmish going on that goes beyond just somebody dropping dead, and that's the end of it.
In other words, you know, it may be part of a larger battle.
Your father, you know, some other things might have happened after that.
It appears that his, again, his memory is only to that incident and then stops and he becomes emotional and can't go on.
Is that right?
And it never went beyond that point.
Am I correct on that?
That's right.
That's where the story would end as far as my dad told it, yeah.
Okay, and now this Lundy person, he was never able to tell you more?
No, he wasn't.
It was a case of a lot of the stuff he would tell me I would have to be in his presence for him to be able to talk about it.
And we would have to go somewhere where there wasn't any concern for things being recorded.
And, you know, honestly, I had not seen him in well over 10 years when he died.
So we weren't able to We're good to go.
And Alistair Crowley, mind control, you deal with that in your book as well.
You seem to have been investigating some of those angles, and you bring forward quite a bit of very interesting link-ups with where the Air Force was going with mind control as well.
Oh, yes, yeah.
Yeah.
Do you want to talk about any of that?
Oh, sure, yeah.
Just sort of whet the appetite of the viewer.
Yeah, this really...
Intrigued me because I didn't know these details until I was working on the book.
But your listeners, all of us here, were familiar with the whole MKUltra thing and the CIA and how the church committee required them to testify and reveal all their stuff.
Well, what I did not know was that of the military branches...
The US Air Force was the most enthusiastic about MKUltra research.
And I didn't know that in the early 50s, around 52 or 53, the Air Force branched off with their own MKUltra mind control research program.
So that by the time my dad was in and having his experience in 1958, He went in in 55.
The Air Force, who knows how far they had developed their own MKUltra stuff.
And what's interesting is, even though the Church Committee made the CIA come clean with what they had done, that did not include the Air Force.
We still, to this day, don't know the extent of the U.S. Air Force MKUltra research.
And when you look at that within the context of what's going on with my dad, I found it really interesting.
Absolutely.
Well, I mean, it's a huge story.
Because, actually, I have a particular interest, and I do want to allow the people in the chat, there are quite a few people in the chat, to ask you some questions very shortly here.
But I just wanted to say, in regard to the Jack Parsons story, I did work at JPL for a time as a contractor before I was in Project Camelot.
And I found, of course, the stories about Parsons and his link-up with the lab to be very interesting.
And in essence, it's more or less named after him.
So I wondered, when you looked at all that, did you...
Have anything else to sort of add in terms of where you thought all of that was going?
Because there's no doubt that there was the Ron Hubbard, Alistair Crowley, Jack Parsons link up with mind control.
And also with, I know that there was a short part of your book where you kind of reference that Parsons may have been responsible or thought he was responsible for some of the first Well, he actually thought he might have been responsible for what happened at Roswell, specifically thinking that maybe that had opened up a portal.
Okay, yeah.
And you kind of don't go into that in much more detail than that, in essence.
But it is an interesting area.
And I don't think I'd ever heard that he thought he...
I know that he and, you know, they were interested in opening a portal, he and Crowley, for one thing.
And I think Hubbard was also in there somewhere.
And...
In other words, intentionally opening portals.
I didn't hear about the Roswell link-up.
Did you get that from Nick Pope, was it?
It's in either George Pendle's book...
Yeah, it's in, and I footnote it, I cite it in my book, but it was in, oh no, I'm sorry, that might have come from Nick Redfern's Final Events, where it was either Pendle or Redfern, I think, who referred to when the,
I think the FBI was questioning him about some things, he apparently told the investigator that he thought that What happened at Roswell might have been the opening of a portal because there was some connection there that somehow was believed or suspected that he was even acquainted with Kenneth Arnold.
Right.
It was all very interesting to me and I thought...
Okay, you know, we're talking about, I'm talking about Roswell and what my dad said it was and what Operation Paperclip implies that it could have been, or there's, you know, what ufology or what Jack Parsons might have thought it was, you know.
Right.
Well, you know, it's interesting because there's not enough information there to really know how that came down.
Maybe there's more in Redfern's.
Maybe Redfern has more investigation in that area.
It would be interesting to find out for sure, I think.
Absolutely.
When you get into Roswell, when you scrape away all the stuff about Roswell that piled up over the course of 25 or 30 years that we now know is questionable or just is false, and you go back to that nugget of original information we have about Roswell, There's certainly not as much there as people like to think.
So when you get into these things, there's not a lot there.
We're kind of forced to look at the context and the circumstances and look outside the box and see what else might be around that helps hopefully better illuminate what was going on.
But you do the best you can do.
Any researcher does.
Sure.
Now, there's another aspect to all of this, because I've read at least one of your other books, which the name of it escapes me at the moment.
And I know that you've studied the Templars, and you've also been on the trail, I believe, maybe correct me if I'm wrong, on the Templar sword.
And you've done some wonderful research in terms of the various places they went in the early days of Even of California and, you know, I think you know about Arizona and some of the link-ups with the Templars there.
And you followed that trail a lot.
Now, it's interesting to me that you now suddenly write this book about your father.
And I'm wondering if you ever, during your research on the incident with your father, thought there was a link-up to the Templar story in any way, shape, or form.
In...
Within the context, within what he told me about this strange story that Shimmering Light is about, no, I didn't see anything that overtly, in my mind, even made me go there or pull the Templar thread within the context of Shimmering Light.
But, of course, the book you're referring to is Secret Missions, the Hidden History of Old California.
And in that, I am pursuing what was the Sword of Joan of Arc, which I think was secretly vaulted across North America.
As the population grew, the Templars had to move their vault.
And at one time, I think it was in South Mountain, right there in Phoenix, and then went to Mount Rubidoux here in the Inland Empire in California.
It's not there anymore.
Now, however, just because I didn't find anything overtly to point me to the Templar thread in Shimmering Light, because I had done that other book and I've done this other research, one would guess that or would have to suppose,
you know, or wonder who might the Templars, if they were messing around inside mountains or in underground caverns and stuff, as I say in Secret Missions, Who might they have encountered in the underground world, in the subterranean?
You mentioned earlier that you had not heard of a mention of the underground people being blind.
There was the story of the Moon-Eyed people that was a Cherokee story that was told to a source of Thomas Jefferson's in a book he wrote.
In 1790, I want to say two, it might have been 98, but the Moonite people.
Well, you know, the Templars could have encountered them, or they could have encountered these very people my dad did when they were in, as I say, the Phoenix area.
It's certainly, and this is what I was saying earlier, how, you know, I've really discovered over time How my stuff really does have connections.
All my books, one really does lead to the other, and there is a big picture that is formulating here.
I didn't ask the question while I was doing Shimmering Light, but it's probably not a bad question to ask.
What might the Templar be?
What element have been in all this?
Right now, I don't know.
Okay, what about the notion that your father had a link-up with the Templars?
Had you looked into that, even in terms of bloodline?
What about bloodline?
Now you're getting into something interesting and that brings us back to my mother.
My mother's family comes from an area in France that was one of those known to be associated with Templar history.
About the time her family then You know, becomes Scottish was about the time, you know, around the persecution that the Templars fled France and went to Scotland.
And then, of course, in my family history, both sides of my family have been here since the 17th century.
My dad's and my mom's since the 1600s.
Both sides, that's been traced.
But my mother's Scottish side, it's got the French connection there.
You know, they came to the Carolinas.
Colonel Lundy is my uncle.
You bring up the bloodline thing.
The bloodline is something that I'm very aware of as regards me and my family.
It's something that I'm presently monitoring, but I'm not I'm not ready to talk about that publicly.
But I am a Freemason.
Colonel Lundy had me go to a lodge and seek to become a Freemason.
I have not been active in many years, but I am a Mason.
Okay, well there you go.
So I think there are some link-ups there, and also I'm very curious about, again, because your father's special physical adeptness is an indicator of something more in terms of bloodline on his side of the family.
And so I just would raise that as something there to be looked at.
And I am scanning the chat now.
I know we've kept you for a while.
And I would like to say, is there anyone, because I'm not seeing any direct questions just at the moment, is there any areas that you would like to bring up that I haven't asked you about in terms of the story, in terms of sort of encouraging people to read the story and also certainly your other books, but anything else you want to add?
Well, I think you've hit on as much as we can tonight, but I will say that anyone who's interested in Roswell, take a look at my book, see what my dad had to say, see what I've put together from my research and the research of others that's out there, and just take a look at the...
The perspective, I put it into the, you know, within the context of my dad's story and just, you know, give it some consideration.
You know, it kind of gave me a new perspective on Operation Paperclip and MKUltra and all these things.
And I really did find, you know, these possible connections.
And I don't know, it just might give you a new perspective that, you know, take it or leave it.
But give it some consideration.
There might be something there that answers a question you have.
Well, I love the way you research things and the way you go into details and follow them through without getting super prejudiced about one answer or another.
One thing somebody is asking in the chat, which is sort of a strange question, but you may be familiar with this person, Michael Aquino.
I don't know why they're bringing him up.
He's certainly part of the occult side of things, and Douglas Dietrich has talked about him and did know him very well, or does know him.
Is this somebody that you're familiar with?
Yeah, Colonel Aquino.
He's a member of the Church of Set, I think it is, and reached the rank of colonel while he was on active duty in the U.S. Army, yeah.
But you know of him.
Do you know him?
No, I do not know him personally.
Okay.
Let's see.
Somebody wants to know if the military...
I think your...
Was your book vetted through the military before you released it, or any of your books...
No.
I came off active duty in 99, and I finished doing any government-related stuff by 2008, and I'm not required to run my stuff through what's called OPM with either the FBI or the Air Force.
A few years back, I did check with them.
And was told, you know, no, unless you're writing specifically about your career, you know, don't worry about it.
Okay.
Someone wants to know any future books you're going to write.
Oh, yes, there will be.
I started Secret Missions 3 earlier last year.
And to be honest, the...
The research from the academic and record search angle kind of came to a stop.
So what I've got to do is do some more field research.
It's going to require field research.
And I just have to, you know, be able to pull together the resources to do that.
And I really do want to finish that book.
So, you know, look for Secret Missions 3.
And I might...
Return to some aspect of the Empire of the Wheel mystery.
I am going to be collaborating with two other authors.
I'm not going to identify that yet, but we've already outlined that book.
As soon as we're ready, I'll identify that one.
That has to do with Breakaway Civilization.
So, yes, I'm working on some things and, you know, hopefully I'll have something out by summer.
Okay, very cool.
All right, so let me see if there's anything else.
You know, I'm just scanning the chat really briefly here.
Someone brings up Walt Disney.
You know, you did research things in California.
Did you ever go down that road?
Oh, absolutely.
My very first nonfiction book is Latitude 33, Key to the Kingdom.
And that's all about the esoteric engineering of the original Disneyland.
So yes, I have gone down that road.
So you know about the mind control associated with Disney?
Yes, I know about that.
My opinion is that...
None of that went on...
Nothing nefarious went on with stuff with Disney Productions until after Walt died.
And I know I get a lot of boos and hisses from people who love to, you know, follow the Walt was a dark, dastardly Mason.
But as I say in my book, you know, I looked into this.
I found where Walt Disney was not a Mason.
He had been a demolet in high school.
But...
I could not find any connection where he had been raised as a mason.
What about his relationship with Salvador Dali?
It was a creative relationship to the extent that can be found.
Right.
I just wondered whether you found anything there in that relationship.
So you did investigate that part of it, yeah?
Well, no, I didn't go into it.
The book wasn't about an in-depth investigation into Walt Disney.
It was about the park, because the park was engineered by A guy named C.V. Wood who worked for SRI and that in itself was such a mind-blower for me that an SRI guy, the Disney Brothers went to SRI to consult them on all aspects of their Waltz Park idea and they hired away the SRI guy that was fascinated with it.
Anything you find in that park that I talk about that works on the mind and there's plenty there, that was done by C.V. Wood.
In fact, to my knowledge and research, the only thing that was done on, you know, that would affect the mind that would do what we'd call MKUltra type of mind science stuff was the park.
I honestly didn't find that with the films.
I found it with the park.
Okay.
And that was at the hand of C.V. Wood.
And that's all in the book Latitude 33.
All right.
And I have...
I've begun research on a follow-up specifically to that book, to Latitude 33, so that one might pop up here sometime soon.
All right, very good.
Let me see.
I guess someone wants to know if you're in touch with any aliens, I guess, and if you think you're being influenced by anyone in that area.
And also, they want you to talk about the aliens in the Air Force, if you know anything about that.
All I know is what Colonel Lundy told me, that there were these extraterrestrials that were In this liaison type of exchange program, but that was in orbit.
It was none of the SERPO type stuff.
And no, I am not in touch with extraterrestrials.
Okay.
All right.
Fair enough.
I had written this question on the paper that I sent you or the, you know, email and And it was about Transylvanian Sunrise and Moonrise, the Peter Moon books.
I don't know if you're familiar with those, but they deal with a guy named Caesar who is in Romania in the Romanian Sphinx, and that's where the underground base exists that's heavily guarded by the military, the American military at this time.
And I wondered if you knew about that.
Gosh darn it, that was the...
One thing I probably didn't get a chance to look into because I am familiar with Peter Moon's other stuff.
So I will, you know, dive into that.
And it sounds very intriguing.
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, what happened just briefly is that there is a discovery there of an underground cavern that had a force field that regular humans couldn't go through.
You had to have a certain frequency.
This guy named Caesar, who was born with this special kind of...
I forget what you call it.
It has to do with the belly button and something.
I don't know.
He grew up to become a head of this think tank, which in essence started to be the head of a secret military part of Romania.
And he became head of this installation.
And he was the only one who could go through the force field.
Peter Moon never met him because ultimately what he did was, okay, inside the cavern are tabletops that have holograms.
And the tabletops, the top of the tables are higher than a human being.
In other words, they're, I think, above, like, I don't know, maybe they'd hit you at the chin or something.
And the seats were very high, so they were built for very tall beings, and they were left behind in this, you know, underground cavern, and their caverns reaching, tunnels reaching all the way into Iraq, into Egypt, into some other places from there.
But ultimately, the guy who headed it up and was head of the secret program Left and was invited into Inner Earth by a certain group of beings that were human, humanoid, I believe.
And he disappeared for many years there.
I don't know if he's returned.
That's part of the mystery, perhaps.
But it was a journalist in, as I recall, a journalist, not Peter Moon, who wrote these books.
Peter Moon translated them from Romania.
Okay.
And he also went there to, he didn't get to go to, of course, the places guarded by the military and he couldn't go into the bases.
But, as far as you know, but he did go to Romania to perhaps investigate some aspects of that story.
And I don't, from there I have, I don't know what has happened.
But at any rate, it does relate to an underground group of humans.
Oh, sure, yeah.
And, you know, this global worldwide tunnel system that, you know, we repeatedly keep hearing has existed since, you know, beyond ancient times.
And then there's the giants, you know.
We know about the skeletons that have been found all around the world, particularly, you know, here in California, the Lovelock skeleton and other places.
That's really intriguing.
I'll take a look at that because I'm convinced there's something with these tunnels and with the giants.
I was convinced long ago personally that there's something to this.
So these accounts always interest me.
Absolutely.
Well, it's been a lot of fun to have you on the show and to kind of cross-examine you about your book.
I'm looking to see if there's anything else that would be...
Somebody...
I'm supposed to ask you, are there any military bases that harbor alien life besides Dulce and Groom Lake?
The answer is yes, but you can go ahead and answer from your point of view.
You know...
Personally, I haven't been convinced that there are.
And I'm not even sure, you know, Dulcie and Groom Lake do.
But I'm just saying, me personally, so I'm not aware of the evidence or haven't seen it myself.
So I wouldn't be able to answer that question intelligently, you know, or confidently, because it just is something that I wasn't exposed to.
Fair enough.
So at this time, I'm going to let you go.
It's been, again, great having you on the show.
Any last parting words or thoughts?
And I do have the link to buy your books on Amazon, but any ideas here you want to share?
Yeah, well, you know, as I said, just...
I would just say, you know, take a look at the book and decide for yourself.
That's what I try to do with all my books.
There are some things I come out and say, here's what I think.
But even so, I still like people to decide for themselves.
I don't like to be the kind of writer or researcher that, you know, if you're looking to be told what to think, don't read my books.
And if you don't like speculation...
Don't read my books because there's speculation in there and I'd like the reader to think for themselves.
As well as Amazon.com.
My printed editions, Shimmering Light's not available and printed yet, but it will be after the first of the year, but that's at lulu.com, l-u-l-u.com.
And my blog is empireofthewheel.blogspot.com.
That's my nonfiction blog that talks about my research, and there's some interesting other things on there that aren't in my books that you'll find that I've posted.
Okay.
Very good.
And I can be found on Twitter and Facebook if you want to contact me personally.
All right.
Excellent.
All right.
Thank you so much, Walter.
It's been great having you on the show.
Thanks for having me on again, Carrie.
I really appreciate it.
Please stay in touch and let us know whenever you've got something new to share.
I will.
Okay.
Alrighty, thank you.
Thank you, and good night.
So, at this moment, what I'm going to do is basically close this down.
I do want to say that we've been hard at work.
I did come back from interviewing William Tompkins, and I have a fascinating interview that is really, I think, pretty extraordinary.
And I think people will be very fascinated with it.
It's in two parts because we spent about close to three hours.
So this is going to be no small undertaking.
And we're going to hopefully get it out there at least, as I say, late tonight or tomorrow morning.
So stay tuned for that, anyone who's interested.
And let me say that this is a disclosure witness who is being, in essence...
Backed, it appears, by the Navy.
He is still working for the Navy.
He states this in the interview.
And he is interviewed by other people out there.
I think this interview connects some dots in different ways and really kind of pushes the envelope with him.
And we're going to hope to do some live shows with him on the air as well in the near future.
So thank you again for watching and for listening.
Have a good night.
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