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Nov. 16, 2016 - Project Camelot

02:09:55

MIKE SPARKS AND JIM FETZER: JFK : NEW EVIDENCE

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	Hi everyone this is Carrie Cassidy from Project Camelot and I'm very happy to be here tonight with two very interesting guests.
	We've got James Fetzer and Mike Sparks and both are very well known really on the internet and around the world I believe as experts in their own areas and tonight we're going to be talking about the Kennedy assassination.
	This is all about some new evidence that has come forward, and it has to do with the Zagruder film.
	We're going to find out how the evidence came forward, the background behind that, and we're going to touch on some of the various evidence regarding the Kennedy assassination that's already out there and see if we can bring some new information.
	Perspectives to all of it.
	And so I'm going to just move right along here very quickly.
	So the first thing I guess I will do is to put this Grutter film on the screen.
	Let me see.
	Hold on one minute here.
	And actually, I'm going to actually put the guys on the screen so they can at least say hello, and let's see if this works properly.
	So, guys, say hello to everyone.
	Hello, hello, hello.
	Pleasure to be here, Kerry.
	Hello, world.
	Glad to be here, Kerry.
	Excellent.
	Okay.
	And what I will do at this point is, like I said, I'm going to play this film and I'm going to share my desktop so you guys can also see.
	And I expect, I think we're going to start with Jim Fetzer giving some comments about the film.
	And then Mike will also bring his perspective in there.
	So let's run this film and hopefully all will work.
	As we plan.
	So go right ahead, guys.
	And there is a slight delay, so bear with me as I share my screen.
	The film is on a loop.
	So that should be...
	So you guys are going to see it.
	It's already running.
	And understand that the viewers are also seeing a tiny bit delay, so go right ahead, Jim Fetzer.
	Well, what we're watching is one of eight different films that captured different aspects of the motorcade as it passed through Dealey Plaza.
	By far the most important, known as the Zapruder film.
	It's one of only two that show most of the assassination scenario.
	The other is only bits and fragments.
	Where the alternative was taken from the opposite side and is known as the Knicks film, you'll notice that Zapruder reported that he began filming when the motorcade first came into view on Houston and started to turn on to Elm.
	But in fact, there's a large gap there where the motorcade approaches and then, boom, all of a sudden it's in the vicinity of the Stamins Freeway sign.
	This exclusion is the area that Mike Sparks will be addressing.
	As you watch the film, however, many students have questioned whether what we were seeing was authentic for multiple reasons, including, for example, the stationary spectators.
	You have a line of spectators there appearing to be virtually emotionless while the motorcade passes by, completely Antithetical to the behavior of everyone else in Main Street or Houston before turning onto Elm.
	So that's been a suspect issue.
	Another is there's a woman there in the black coat and another in the black.
	That's Jean Hill and Mary Moorman, both of whom have explained how they stepped into the street.
	Where Mary stepped in to call out, hey, Mr.
	President, look over here.
	We want to take your picture.
	So Jean could take a photograph using a Polaroid, and then she'd hand it to Mary, who put the developing fluid on it.
	And since they're only shown on the grass, that has led to questions about whether or not this was authentic.
	In addition, though you can't really tell just by watching here, Noel Twyman, who published a completely brilliant book Bloody Treason, back in 1997, thought that the head turns of William Greer, the driver, occurred much too fast.
	So he hired a professional tennis player to see how fast his head could turn from looking straight back to looking forward or looking forward to straight back and discovered that indeed the Greer head turns were twice as fast as humanly possible.
	Which may not sound significant until you realize that twice as fast would mean you'd be converting a four-minute mile into a two-minute mile.
	So that issues of this kind have raised serious questions about whether or not what we're looking at is indeed the authentic in-camera original film during the course of the assassination.
	And as we proceed, the additional reasons will be advanced to make it very clear that indeed this is a fabricated film, a film that was massively re-edited, taking original parts and then subjecting them to manipulation using optical printing of special effects.
	Mike is going to address the break in the film as the limousine turns from Houston on to Elm, which we're witnessing right now, where all of a sudden, boom, there it is.
	So I shall turn it over to Mike Sparks.
	Roger, what you see there is an out-of-camera edit that Zapruder himself admits did not take place.
	He didn't do it as an in-camera edit.
	He had the camera rolling.
	So that turn is extremely wide.
	We went and made a scale model of Dealey Plaza and the service road in front of the Texas School Book Depository.
	And we also took a scale model and we made model vision happen.
	We actually recreated what you should see there.
	But what you do see with the farthermost motorcycle cop is that he takes a long time to get back in frame.
	He is turned way out there, showing how much space there is out there.
	And what has been cut out is that the driver, Greer, made a mistake and thought the service road was the road he was going to turn in on.
	He...
	Turned too late and had to overcompensate and make a 120 degree plus turn to get back on the Elm.
	You can see a picture of the Secret Service recreation with the Queen Mary follow-on car afterwards in the second book, Plausible Denial, by...
	I forget his name, but he just died, Mark Lane.
	Mark Lane.
	You'll see that they had to oversteer the Queen Mary to replicate the getting back into the center line.
	The limousine, once it got back into the center line, it had to correct straight.
	Yes, sir?
	Don't you have a video study to play here now?
	Well, I do.
	It's on YouTube, yes, and I was just trying to describe it.
	I can bring that up, guys, if you would like.
	I've got that right here handy.
	Oh, yeah, absolutely, Carrie.
	You want to play it, yeah.
	All right, so we'll do that.
	So it is rather long, though, so...
	You can cut it off after 15 minutes or even sooner.
	Mike can...
	Dictate when to cut it off.
	I think what we'll do is we'll play it in the background, but you guys, we'll have some dialogue in front of it, all right?
	If that's okay with you.
	Okay, so be like mystery science theater.
	Gotcha.
	Yes, in theory.
	Okay, so bear with me one second here, and we'll get this on the screen.
	Why do not, Terry?
	I'll talk about the model vision.
	What we did is got the scale model vision.
	Built, and then we saw how big that area is, but you can see how long it takes that third motorcycle cop to make the turn.
	You'll see that it's easy to make that mistake.
	You can see how he overcorrected, and then once he overcorrected, he had to...
	You want to go to full screen?
	Terry, you want to go to full screen on it?
	Yeah, go ahead.
	Go ahead.
	Once he made that correction, he stopped for the first time.
	Now, this stop for the first time, it comes from witnesses, not something that we just presumed.
	Witnesses said the limousine made a wide turn and came to a stop.
	Now, the reason for the stop comes from a military need to aim in on Kennedy and not hit Jackie.
	The prime directive is not to hit America's sweetheart, but to hit the guy that's blocking, you know, the right-wing fascists that don't want his policies to continue.
	So you see right there in the film, there's a very wide turn that the third motorcycle cop is making.
	He's still not back in frame yet.
	And now he's coming back in frame right there.
	And you can see, wow, you could easily get lost in that turn.
	And that's what happened.
	Greer got lost in that turn.
	But once he...
	Gets back into the turn.
	He's going to have to correct one more time to get straight to go down Elm Street.
	He stopped there.
	Now, that was the orders that he was under to stop.
	We know for a fact that there were on the curb right there, our curb right there with the right and red girls running, there are weird yellow marks on that curb.
	So these are registration marks for the gunman.
	But what the gunman needed was that motorcade to stop.
	That has to be out of the film.
	The wide turn and the stop show that it was an inside job.
	They cannot let that show.
	So they cut it out, claiming it's in a camera edit.
	The August red brake light would be a giveaway for that.
	how long it takes for Greer to get back into the frame.
	It would be so obvious that they couldn't write it off and just say Greer was scared.
	The second stop that we're going to talk about, right there, the lady in red, Jean Hill, Mary Mormon, right around there, the limousine stops there.
	But you'll notice that the frame of the camera doesn't show the whole limousine.
	Now it's going back and showing the whole limousine?
	Come on.
	Zapruder may have been an old fart, but he wasn't that bad of a cameraman.
	You'll see when the limousine leaves the stem and freeway sign, the whole limousine is in camera.
	So for it to suddenly crop out and not have the whole limousine shows that they're hiding the second stop, which is the brake light of the second stop.
	So you've got the first stop right here, which will happen right after they turn.
	He will oversteer, and then he appears.
	We're going to pretend like the footage was there, and I'm going to use a model to show what you should see, which is an oversteer, a correction, and then one more correction and a stop.
	That stop was so that the gunman would have the time to take their vision from a general observation of your just rental eyesight and to narrow it down to your iron sights, Or your scope.
	It's optics.
	There's a big difference.
	And it takes a few seconds.
	What they didn't want to do is make the same mistake that the gunman did trying to shoot DeGaulle.
	DeGaul was fine in his ugly Citroen limousine and they didn't have time to aim and so he was not assassinated a few months earlier.
	That's an inside job from an inside intelligence agency talking to another intelligence agency giving you tips.
	They're saying if you're gonna hit Kennedy you're gonna have to stop the limousine and so what you have in the first stop is proof that it's an Because you can't say Greer was scared.
	You might say he was drunk and hungover.
	But for him to stop the limousine, that shows that he's under orders to stop.
	Now, other people will say the second stop by Gene Hill and Mary Mormont, you know, Greer's scared, afraid for his life, which doesn't make sense.
	If you're afraid for your life, you hit the gas pedal and get out of there.
	But I don't want that excuse to be the focus in this first video.
	This first video, which I'm showing you right here with Monovision, We're recreating what probably should have been seen in Zapruder's footage that we don't see, which is Greer is steering too far out.
	He got mixed up with the service right in front of the Texas School Book Depository.
	He's going to have to overcorrect right now.
	And we see proof of that in the Mark Lane book where they recreated it with the Queen Mary Secret Service card.
	And then once he overcorrects and almost hits the, you know, Concrete pavement there where there's spectators.
	He's going to then correct one more time, and he's going to stop to set the ambush.
	And this is the first phase of the ambush, which is before the Stemmons Freeway sign, which they hoped would do the job.
	Now, it doesn't do the job, as we all know, because you'll see later on they go past the Stemmons Freeway sign.
	Kennedy's still alive.
	And the Umbrella Man has opened up his umbrella with a radio spotter telling the second part of the episode that they have to shoot the frontal shot in order to finish Kennedy off.
	And there was a second stop associated with that.
	So what you have is two different stops on signal.
	These guys have a difficult task to do, which is to hit Kennedy and not hit Jackie or anybody else.
	And, you know, they weren't able to do that.
	They did hit John Connolly, who didn't even want to be in the limousine.
	He fought violently with LPJ the night before.
	Kennedy's listening to it.
	And he said, I don't want to be in that limousine.
	Now, Kennedy should have said, there's something up here.
	But Connolly said, I don't want to be in that limousine.
	Because Connolly knew that he was going to be part of the shooting galleries.
	And LBJ said, you're getting in that damn flimsy.
	So that is guilty demeanor on the part of Connelly and LBJ, because they were the ones that got the trademark selected for John F. Kennedy's luncheon, which is the excuse, a very flimsy excuse, used to say that they had to turn down into Peely Plaza in the first place.
	If we can, later I'll show a map.
	The first slide, Jim's first slide, I did some markings on it.
	There's no reason why that the limousine and the motorcade couldn't have kept going straight down Main Street and taken Industrial Boulevard in a couple different ways to get to the trademark.
	They used this to reverse engineer moving the ambush, you know, moving the motorcade into the ambush site of Dealey Plaza.
	In the military we call this reverse engineering or reverse planning.
	The first The thing you have to do is decide what your objective is.
	The objective is to get Kennedy and the Dealey Plaza into an L-shaped ambush.
	We have slides on Jim's Assassination Science YouTube showing where we broke this down, how they looked at the route, they needed to slow the limousine and the motorcade down.
	They decided Dealey Plaza was a great place for an L-shaped ambush.
	And then they had to reverse engineer that and By choosing a location for him to speak instead of the woman's fairground, which could have been easily reached by going down Main Street, they used the flimsy excuse that it was easy to get off on Stemmett's freeway by going into Dealey Plaza.
	So it's all being done by reverse planning, by taking your result and going backwards and going and changing the things, which includes also the selection of the ambush at the end of the motorcade.
	Who is going to be a sheeple, a person just a follower of what's going on, is going to put the shooting at the very end of the motorcade route.
	That's somebody who knows that the motorcade is ending.
	There will be less people there as witnesses and less security.
	That's a decision of a higher cognitive mind deciding where to ambush Kennedy that a sheeple person wouldn't do.
	Then, of course, the ultimate is the Patsy for this was one of the Oswalds.
	They put him in the Texas School Book Depository.
	You see the model right there.
	That was done months before the motorcade route was even published in the newspaper.
	So how can you, on the spur of the moment, decide I'm going to work here at the Texas School Book Depository So I could be a shooter or a patsy.
	No, that's somebody doing this ahead of time, which means a group effort.
	We know with the red brake lights, Secret Service is involved in the assassination.
	Only the CIA has the money and the resources to manipulate all these levers of government, including LBJ and Connelly.
	So the CIA murdered Kennedy, and that is why the first stop is out of the Zapruder film, and of course the second stop is out because they don't want to show that this is an inside job, that it wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for John Kennedy listening that it wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for John Kennedy listening to LBJ and Connolly and being suckered into this Dealey
	His handler shouldn't have let that happen, but it wouldn't have happened if the CIA under Alan Dulles, who was left as CIA director for almost all of 1961, wasn't left in power.
	He was shamed by the Bay of Pigs fiasco, and Kennedy did not fire him.
	Kennedy left him in power for almost all of 1961.
	Plenty of time for Alan Dulles to start the conspiracy and order the gunmen.
	So we can argue about how many shots and how many gunmen there were, but they didn't really kill Kennedy, because you can hire people to kill people.
	The real person that killed Kennedy was Alan Dulles.
	Alan Dulles and his other links.
	General Lansdale did the JFK group ambush.
	And so JFK Justice would demand that we disband the CIA. That's what we need to be talking about.
	But we first have to convince people that it was an inside job and the U.S. government did it, and that's what this video correction is all about, showing what we should see in the Zipperter film.
	And Jim, yes, I am going to make a second film on the second stop.
	To help you convey how many shots there were and what kind of outrageous shooting gallery this was.
	Okay.
	So, guys, what I have done here is stop the film.
	I think people have seen most of what you intended, Mike.
	Right.
	Okay.
	And at this point, I also want to give Jim a chance to sort of state...
	Sort of his perspective, and also before anything else goes forward, I also want to know where this concept came from.
	So did it come from you, Jim?
	Did it come from you, Mike, or someone else?
	What concept, precisely?
	The idea of this new piece of, you know, where the film is altered, you know, and the wider turn, and that, I assume, is the new evidence, yes?
	No, actually, there's more.
	What Mike has done is a reconstruction based upon eyewitness reports of what took place there in the missing footage, which is fine as far as it goes.
	He's offering his interpretation about several circumstances where I would beg to differ with him.
	Allen Dulles was not the primary.
	Lyndon Johnson was the primary and forced himself on the ticket in Los Angeles in 1960.
	He wasn't on Jack or Bobby's long list, much less their short.
	Jack had already invited Stuart Symington to run with him.
	When Bobby went by the Johnson suite, he was astonished that Lyndon leaped on it.
	And threatened to expose that JFK had had dalliances with beautiful women, some of whom were spies for his Germany, that he suffered from Addison's disease and wasn't expected to live a long, normal life.
	And moreover, that if he were not on the ticket, that any legislative proposals coming down from the White House would be dead on arrival.
	Jack and Bobby tried to figure a way out of it, but couldn't.
	When one of Lyndon's wealthy supporters burst into the Johnson suite cursing and swearing about Lyndon helping JFK become president, Bobby Baker took him into a bedroom and explained to him what they had in mind.
	He came out all smiles and said he thought that was an excellent plan.
	Bobby Baker would later declare that JFK would not live out his term and that he would die a violent death.
	Lyndon even sent his chief administrative assistant Cliff Carter down to Dallas to make sure all the arrangements were in place for the assassination.
	Mike is alluding to a book by David Talbot entitled The Devil's Chessboard that seeks to place the responsibility on the shoulders of Ellen Dulles.
	Which I regard as a masterful work of disinformation, intended to remove the focus from Lyndon Johnson, where it clearly belongs.
	There's a massive evidence supporting it.
	Which I have discussed in detail elsewhere, but where Phil Nelson has done absolutely brilliant work on this, especially in his book called LBJ Mastermind of the Assassination of JFK, which is completely correct in its concept.
	In addition, Lee only went to work at the book depository a couple of weeks before the assassination, and they changed the motorcade route to bring the target to the book depository, to the location of the Patsy.
	Where, ironically, it turns out he was actually standing in the doorway watching the motorcade as it went past, where Larry Rivera has done completely brilliant work on this, inspired by the work of Ralph Sinque, Judith Berry Baker, who was Lee's girlfriend in New Orleans the summer before the assassination, has made major contributions.
	But we have been able to establish beyond any doubt That the man in the doorway, by virtue of his height, his weight, his build, his clothing, and so forth, and Lee Oswald, were the only alternative.
	Billy Lovelady is two or three inches shorter and 20 to 30 pounds heavier, as Billy himself observed, who was also, by the way, in the doorway, just to Lee's left, holding his hands up to conceal his eyes from the glare of the sun.
	In addition, my understanding is that Linden and Jack had a huge argument that morning.
	Linden was trying to get Conley out of the limousine And Ralph Yarbrough, who was the liberal senator from Texas, but Jack overrode him on the ground that the chief executive of the state should ride with the chief executive of the United States.
	It was too late to let the shooters know that this would be John Connolly and not Ralph Yarbrough.
	So that shots were taken, non-fatal as it turned out, several hits on Conley, which actually had the effect of obfuscating the politics of the assassination because Conley had been LBJ's campaign manager.
	They were very tight.
	They were cronies.
	They benefited from all kinds of scams by scalawags like Billy Saul Essis together.
	And Lyndon would never have willingly put his dear friend at risk, but there was no way around it under the circumstances.
	Okay.
	Thank you, Jim.
	That's, you know, quite an interesting perspective.
	I am still reading the book, Devil's Chessboard, and I actually think there's a lot of merit in what he sets up there in terms of Dulles.
	The evidence On the Dulles side is also prolific in terms of at least the relationship between Kennedy and Dulles and no doubt about it he also does spend a bit of time extending some blame upon Johnson.
	It does appear that Johnson was in on it.
	It does appear that he was He was resentful and he had been belittled, basically, by his position as VP and really did want to get Kennedy out of the way.
	So I think he was complicit, but I don't know if you can put the whole blame on his door.
	I think it was a much bigger operation than that.
	Gary, I've been doing this for nearly 30 years.
	I've worked through all the disinformation.
	This is simply the latest and perhaps the most sophisticated, but I guarantee you Lyndon Johnson was the driving force.
	All the key players who knew him up close and personal attested to it.
	Madeleine Duncan Brown, who was his mistress, who bore him a child.
	Stephen attested to it.
	I interviewed her 100 times.
	She wrote about it in the book Texas in the Morning.
	Billy Saul Estes wrote about it in the book.
	Well, let's go at this.
	I appreciate all that.
	Let's go at this a little bit differently.
	What about the notion, are you trying to attest that Dulles had nothing to do with it?
	Absolutely not.
	Of course he had to do with it.
	He knew the details and so forth.
	He was involved in players.
	He made himself out of the country at the time.
	But it was Lyndon Johnson who was the driving force, not Alan Dulles.
	All right.
	Kerry, listen, I have done a huge amount on this, and I guarantee you, You even had E. Howard Hunt give his deathbed confession to his son, St.
	John, enumerating that the chain of command had gone from Lyndon Johnson to David Attlee Phillips to Corden Meyer, to David Attlee Phillips, to William Harvey, to David Sanchez Morales, and then down to the actual shooters of whom I have identified six.
	I can tell you where they were located, what shops they took, and what effect they had.
	You have Barbara Cleland's book where he was working for this key attorney in Texas that helped to plan the assassination and the cover-up.
	You have Jack Ruby Even telling reporters at the time that if someone else had been vice president, he wouldn't be in the position he was in now.
	And they said, you mean, he offered Adlai Stevenson as an illustration.
	And they said, you're talking about the man at the top.
	And Jack Ruby said, that's right.
	Carrie, listen, I appreciate that you like the Talbot book, and it's rich on detail, but in its general intent, it is to mislead the public about the pivotal role of Lyndon Johnson.
	Okay, I'll give you a chance in just a moment, Mike.
	Just let me reply slightly to this, and Jim, you're quite right.
	I think that you've got a great approach to this.
	What I want to clarify here is saying that I like the Talbot book might be a bit strong because I do find some areas of what you might call misdirects and disinfo in certain other areas that I find rather aggravating.
	I do think it is an excellent work.
	I'm not so worried about the end result, and I'm not worried about so much what you're calling is the person calling the shots.
	But I just want to throw one thing out to you and see what you might have to say about that.
	And that is, you do understand how the CIA operates.
	You understand how they work to place the blame at the door of other people, to stay in the background.
	There's many reasons why they will not want Dulles to be responsible and the CIA in general.
	Putting this all at the feet of Lyndon Johnson is maybe overemphasizing his role.
	I understand he could be the guy at the top of that pyramid, but there's a pyramid above that.
	Don't you agree?
	No, I don't agree.
	I mean, we can talk about the sponsors, the facilitators, and the mechanics, and I do that in many places.
	We're talking about how governments are.
	I had not anticipated we would be talking about the motives and the players, but I'm glad to do it.
	The sponsors included the CIA, because Jack was threatening to shatter it into a thousand pieces.
	Sure.
	The Joint Chiefs, because Jack had...
	Not invaded Cuba, contrary to their unanimous recommendation.
	He had signed an above-ground test ban treaty with the Soviet Union and contrary to the unanimous opposition.
	Now he was pulling our forces out of Vietnam, where they believed a stand had to be taken against international godless communism.
	The anti-Castro Cubans were upset because the CIA had given them the false impression that JFK had betrayed them at the Bay of Pigs.
	The eastern establishment surrounding the Fed was upset because Jack had instructed the Department of the Treasury to publish hundreds of millions of United States notes in recognition that it was absurd for the government of the United States to be paying a consortium of private banks interest for Printing the currency of the United States.
	The Texas oilmen were upset because he was threatening to cut the oil depletion allowance.
	Israel was not far behind because he was at loggerheads with David Ben-Gurion over Israel's desire to develop nuclear weapons which JFK opposed.
	Those were the sponsors.
	Now the shooters involved representatives of different groups.
	One of the shooters was a deputy sheriff.
	Harry Weatherford fired his shot from the top of the county records building that hit JFK in the back.
	Another was Jack Lawrence, an Air Force expert, fired his shot from inside the triple underpass, passed through the windshield, hit JFK in the throat.
	After the limousine was brought to a halt the second time, which I'm going to explain in detail, he was hit twice in the head.
	Once in the back of the head from the DalTax, where a shooter using a man-licker Carcano, which was the only unsilenced weapon, an anti-Castro-Cuban named Nestor Tony Escadro fired three shots and with one hit and two misses.
	One miss hit the distant curbing and injured a bystander by the name of James Tagg.
	Another missed and hit the chrome strip over the limousine.
	But the third hit JFK in the back of the head and he slumped forward.
	Jack eased him back up and was looking him right in the face when he was hitting the right temple by a shot fired from the intersection of the Triple Underpass and the Grassy Knoll by Frank Sturgis, who was a CIA gun-running mob guy, maybe the best shot in the world.
	He even confessed to a New York City detective, Jim Rothstein, who took him into custody when he came to New York to murder Marita Lorenz so she couldn't testify to the House Select Committee on assassinations.
	But he was unsuccessful, and Rothstein gave him the throwaway question, nice shooting, and Sturgis started talking about how He shot him because he betrayed the brigade at the Bay of Pigs, and he was consorting with foreign spies.
	He said he aimed for his eye, but actually he moved ever so slightly and he hit him in the temple instead.
	It was a French, a more exploding bullet that set up shockwaves that blew his brains out the left rear with such force that when they impacted with motorcycle patrolman Bobby Hargis, he initially thought he himself had been shot.
	Other shots were fired by Roscoe White, who was wearing a police officer uniform because he was a police officer with ties to the CIA. He was on the grassy knoll.
	Others were fired from the three shots, it would appear, were fired from the north side.
	North, south, east, west side of the book depository by Malcolm Mack Wallace, who was Lyndon's personal hitman.
	He murdered a dozen people for lending, including one of his own secretaries.
	He was firing at Conley in the mistaken belief that it was Ralph Yarborough, to which I have alluded before.
	Okay.
	Right, but you know, Jim, we're getting ahead of the program here.
	We need to talk about the causation factors, which is that people are fixated, like in a fetish, on the gunshots, and the causation are the people who actually had Kennedy killed.
	We can agree on Lyndon Johnson being a scumbag, and we shouldn't Navy ship after him, which is what we're doing.
	There are a bunch of things we need to do to blacklist Lyndon Johnson.
	But there's no...
	But Jim, you're forgetting something...
	That Alan Dulles was in the CIA Emergency Operations Center on the day of the assassination.
	What is the ex-director of the CIA doing in the command center of the CIA, as proven by...
	Not to make an obvious point.
	No, but that's not an obvious point.
	Okay, guys, we've got to keep this.
	It's my turn to talk, Jen.
	Slow down.
	If you blame too many people, nobody gets the blame.
	Because you have no responsibility, you have too many people being blamed, and we don't get any JFK justice.
	In my view, LBJ needs to be punished, he needs to be blacklisted as a president, definitely not name a ship after him, but we need to disband the CIA, because the CIA did this The CIA has been doing a lot of dirty tricks ever since then, and JFK Justice would need to realize as a constitutional republic, we can't have a huge bureaucracy of murder incorporated Going off murdering people anytime they damn well please, which is what happened with the Kennedy assassination.
	In your case, you think that they were subsidiary to LBJ orchestrating everything.
	I believe they orchestrated everything.
	Okay, okay, calm down.
	That is quickly.
	Mike?
	We don't want to quibble right now.
	Okay, guys, listen.
	It's not going to happen if we don't lay the blame clearly on who did it and not everybody.
	Okay, Mike, thank you.
	Mike, your point is made.
	Thank you for that.
	Very valid.
	And Jim, very valid information.
	Thank you for going over the shooters.
	I just want to caution you here.
	I want to go slow.
	I want to try to be as polite as possible.
	Under the circumstances, I know you're both passionate.
	And I have my own questions that I'd like to ask in between everything else whenever possible.
	But I do want to make sure that we get the point across to the people watching for why this is coming forward at this time.
	Can I ask you before, Jim?
	I'm going to ask you again.
	What is the reason that both of you came to me saying that this is a new piece of evidence and how did the new evidence come forward?
	In other words, this is a timing issue.
	This is all coming out now, if I understand it correctly.
	Is that right?
	Well, it happens we're having a conference convened by Judith Berry Baker in Dallas, where I'm reporting on proofs of Zapruderfilm alteration, and I suggested to Mike that he might put together a visual reconstruction based upon eyewitness reports.
	Now, I think Mike focused on the big gap in the film, which really hadn't been my intention.
	But that's okay, because that's quite valuable, what he's done there.
	But the important new information really is what I have yet to present.
	In the slides that I sent you, Carrie.
	All right.
	All right.
	Let's go to that then, because we want to go one step at a time, if you don't mind, and try to get everything in here.
	Can I add something, Carrie?
	We needed to do a visual.
	The information about the first stop has been out there, but it doesn't have any effect, anecdotally, when people say, I saw the limousine swing wide and stop.
	We needed to make it a visual to drive the point home.
	No, and it's great that you did the model, and it's great you made the video, so we're going to have that.
	We can show this again later if it helps the discussion.
	But right now, I'm going to bring the PowerPoint on the screen, if you don't mind, and I'm going to share it so you guys see where I am, and Jim, I'll let you take the lead with that.
	I assume this is your PowerPoint for your presentation.
	And just out of curiosity, when are you presenting at this event and tell something about the event?
	Is it in Texas?
	Yeah, it's in Dallas, Texas.
	It's on the 20th.
	I'll be presenting this coming Sunday, Gary.
	All right.
	That's why I just happened to fit together.
	I'd go full screen on the slides if you can.
	That'll help.
	All right.
	Just bear with me here and we'll do that.
	So go right ahead and sort of direct me as to...
	I do have my...
	The one thing useful for me is we can go as wide as possible, but I do have thumbnails here.
	So in case you wanted to jump around, it's a little easier if I'm not full screen.
	If you're going to go in order...
	Yeah.
	I'm not going to jump around.
	You're not?
	Okay, no problem.
	Let me just add one point.
	The reason that it's so difficult to get a grasp on the assassination is that you fail to distinguish the three different levels.
	The sponsors, the individuals or group who wanted JFK out, Most of whom wanted Lyndon Johnson in.
	The facilitators who made it happen, and then the mechanics, the shooters on the ground, their supervisors and coordinators.
	The facilitators were the key players, and those were Lyndon Johnson, who was going to become the new president, who was the only person in the world who could guarantee that no one would ever be punished for participation in the event, and J. Edgar Hoover, who used the FBI to assist in covering it up.
	They stole the body from Parkland.
	It was all very deliberate.
	Took it to the Walter Reed Medical Hospital, where the best forensic pathologists in the military removed wallets, fragments, and then delivered it to the back of Bethesda Naval Hospital.
	While the official entourage with Jackie Kennedy and the Grey Navy Ambulance were proceeding toward Bethesda Naval Hospital, Jack was already...
	I mean, look, this is the most complicated, the most complex murder mystery in history, and it's hardly surprising, therefore, that different individuals who are familiar with different aspects of the evidence would draw different conclusions,
	even as scientific reasoning succeeds, because You have a body of scientists who are looking at the same body of evidence and comparing the same alternative hypotheses using the same principles of reasoning.
	That is untrue of you and Michael and me.
	We're simply looking at different bodies of evidence.
	And I would dare say, having been at this 30 years, having co-chaired five national conferences, edited three books of expert studies with one yet forthcoming, that there's a chance that I may have looked at more of the evidence than have either you or mine.
	That's simply to explain why we're arriving at different opinions.
	Shake your head all you want, Mike.
	No problem.
	Let's take a look.
	Secret Service stopped the limousine.
	LBJ didn't have control of the Secret Service.
	CIA could do that.
	Oh, Mike.
	All right.
	Let's take a look.
	This is just a heading for today, obviously.
	So go to the next slide, which is the official scenario.
	Right, Gary.
	Now, all the buildings here are important.
	If you look in the background on the right, the county record building, a shot was fired from the top of the county record building.
	Just past it, in the middle is the Dow tax building.
	Three shots were fired from there.
	Then you have the book depository.
	Three shots were fired from the west side, not from the east.
	No shots were fired.
	From the old location specified here.
	Zapruder was shooting from location number two.
	The shooter on the grassy knoll, the police officer, Roscoe White, location number three.
	The actual shooter who hit him in the head, Frank Sturgis, was at the intersection of the wooden fence and the triple underpass.
	The shooter who fired through the windshield, Jack...
	Lawrence was in the vicinity of five, more so than six, which is the location where James Tague was injured.
	Go to the next slide.
	And we see here the actual shots that were endured by JFK. The shot to the back fired from the top of the county records building.
	The shot to the throat fired from inside the triple underpass.
	And then only after the limousine was brought to a halt for the second time, the two shots to the head, one from the Daltex, causing him to slump forward, the other after Jackie eased him back up from the intersection of the triple underpass and the...
	And the picket fence by Frank Sturges.
	Let me interrupt, Jim.
	How many total shots?
	Eight, nine, or ten.
	Possibly one more.
	That's important for people to understand.
	Yeah, because there were multiple misses.
	Right.
	It's a shooting gallery here.
	I'm going to explain now how the Secret Service set them up.
	If you go to the next slide, Gary.
	Yeah, and then you can proceed.
	We have more than, go to the next, we have more than 15 indications of Secret Service complicity in setting him up.
	Two agents who would normally have ridden on the back of the presidential limousine or beside were left behind at Love Field.
	Here you have one of them, Henry Ribka, expressing dismay at being called off by Emery Roberts, the agent in charge.
	Complete surprise, certainly totally in violation of Secret Service protocol.
	If you go to the next slide.
	They didn't weld the manhole covers.
	They didn't cover open windows.
	Look at the open windows here.
	Crowds were allowed to spill into the street.
	The 112th Military Intelligence Unit was ordered to stand down over the adamant opposition of its commanding officer.
	If you go to the next, you'll see how grossly inappropriate was the security here, because look where he's passing in relation to that bus.
	A gunman with a handgun could have shot JFK. And look at the depth of the crowd there and the people who are being allowed to spill into the street.
	You'll find no other presidential motorcade has features that we find true in Dallas.
	If you go to the next slide, You see, the motorcycle escort was cut down to four and instructed not to ride ahead of the rear wheels.
	One of the officers said it was the damnedest formation he'd ever seen.
	The officer on number seven was Billy Joe Martin.
	Number eight was Bobby Hargis.
	On the right, it was Officer Cheney, number 9, and Officer Jackson, number 10.
	You see here the proximity of the Secret Service vehicle to the presidential motorcade.
	Yeah, they can't provide a block to any line of sight.
	If you go to the...
	If you go to the next slide, you'll see the way the motorcade route was changed.
	As Mike observed, it would have been possible to get to the trademark, which the Secret Service didn't like because it had all kinds of balconies, entrances and exits, much less secure than the Women's Forum.
	But you could have got to either location by going straight up Main Street and getting on the Stemmons Freeway.
	Instead, they created this artificial detour, coming up Maine, turning right on Houston, and then doing a 110-degree turn onto Elm Street, another violation of Secret Service protocol.
	Because you're not supposed to do any turn greater than 90 degrees, it was designed to slow down the motorcade without alarming the occupants.
	And Mike, of course, has explained what actually happened when Greer Swung out too widely and lost basically control of the limousine in relation to the proper track.
	If you look at the next slide, this may be the most telling sign that this was a setup.
	The vehicles were in the wrong order.
	The presidential limousine was put up front, and it was followed by the vice president later on, the mayor.
	Any normal motorcade would have had the mayor early on, then the vice president, then the president.
	He should have been preceded by a flatbed truck for the Photographers and cameramen to film this political event.
	They used different makes and models and colors.
	Every presidential motorcade in history, with this exception, has been uniformly black Cadillac limousines.
	But here they used a whole mix of different cars and different colors, so the perps would know exactly who was located where.
	Among the special arrangements they moved, the presidents Military aide who normally would have been sitting in between the driver, William Greer, and the agent in charge, Roy Kellerman, to the very last vehicle with his personal physician, Admiral Berkley, to make it maximally difficult for Berkley to reach the president should an emergency arise.
	If you go to the next slide, you'll see where in the very famous photograph taken by AP photographer James Ike-Alchins, you can actually see the bullet hole in the windshield.
	It's a small white spiral nebula with a dark hole in the center.
	Jack is clutching his throat.
	If you look just above and into the doorway there, the man who seems to have a towel over his shoulder, he's actually missing his left shoulder because of ways they manipulated the photograph.
	We have proven to be Leah Oswald, which even early students such as The photography series...
	Gantner.
	Gantner.
	No, no, no, no, no.
	Weisberg, Harold Weisberg.
	Even Harold Weisberg in his second Whitewash, which was published in 1966, already observed that it was Lee Oswald in the doorway.
	Jim Garrison, another prominent figure who knew that Lee was in the doorway.
	Look at the windshield the Secret Service would subsequently produce on the right.
	It has a spiral crack.
	It's not at all like what happened in Dealey Plaza because the limousine was sent back to Ford Motor Company on Monday, the day of the formal state funeral, and completely stripped down and rebuilt, including replacing the windshield.
	In fact, Doug Weldon contributed a brilliant essay to Murder in Dealey Plaza from tracking down the official at Ford Motor Company who was responsible for replacing the windshield and who confirmed that the old windshield had a through-and-through bullet hole.
	And if you go to the next slide, you see we can even see the bullet hole in frame 225 of the Zapruder film.
	There were things that they overlooked When they reworked the film, they didn't get it all quite right, as I'm going to explain.
	If you turn to the next slide, you'll see that actually one of the The Secret Service officers took a bucket and sponge and began washing the blood and brains out of the limousine.
	Sam Kinney, who is driving the Secret Service vehicle, the Cadillac, behind the presidential, told a neighbor, he confided in him, that he had been the person who took the bucket of water and the sponge to wash it out.
	But he didn't want that information revealed until after his death, at which point his friend contacted me to share that information.
	If you turn to the next slide, I'm about to embark now on how we know the film is a fabrication.
	I mean, Mike has actually explained Why they had to excise a substantial sequence of frames that involved a turn onto Elm Street, because it was a little too revealing.
	I'll report some of the information from the great Zapruder film books published in 2003, which is 500 pages, very extensive, involving the six leading experts in the world on the Zapruder film, which everyone is welcome to pursue.
	I believe that used copies are still available if you're lucky.
	If you turn to the next slide, I mentioned Noel Twyman.
	When he put together Bloody Treason and conducted the studies with a professional tennis player to determine how fast his head could turn, he asked Roderick Ryan, who was a cinematic expert from Hollywood, why the background was blurred in frame 302 but not in frame 303.
	And Ryan explained that the camera was panning the limo in 302 but not in 303.
	Where it was stationary.
	On page 159, he added he had shown it to his son, Roderick Ryan's son, who's also in the film industry.
	He agreed it was moving in 302, but not in 303.
	Now Roderick Ryan would receive the Academy Award for his contributions to cinematography in the year 2000.
	Here's another point made in the next slide.
	Zapruder had an associate by the name of Erwin Schwartz, who observed rain matter blown out to the left rear.
	This is from an interview with Schwartz.
	I asked him to describe what he saw the instant of the fatal headshot.
	His answer was very descriptive.
	He said he saw Kennedy's head suddenly whip around to the left.
	Counterclockwise.
	I also asked him if he saw the explosion of blood and brains out the head.
	He replied that he did.
	I asked him if he noticed which direction the eruption went.
	He pointed back over his left shoulder.
	He said, it went this way.
	I said, you mean it went to the left and rear?
	He said, yes.
	Bartholomew then asked him, are you sure you didn't see the blood and brains going up into the front?
	Swartz said no.
	It was to the left and rear.
	We went over this point several times with him to be sure he was clear on this point.
	He was very clear.
	This is again Noel Twyman conducting an interview where Erwin Swartz saw the original film, In the Possession of Zapruder, on Saturday morning when it was shown to several news people, including Dan Rather.
	If you go to the next slide, here we have further proof that his brains were blown out to the back and to the rear because there was blood and brains on the trunk that nauseated Secret Service agents when they saw it covered with the blood and brains.
	This is when it was en route back to Andrews Air Force Base after the tragedy.
	One of them became sick from seeing the rear of the limousine with the blood and gore.
	Do you remember any of these specific events?
	This is Vince Palomara now interviewing a Secret Service agent, Vince Gulo.
	And he said, I'm totally familiar with the facts as you outlined them.
	This was a benchmark in my life.
	And I've shared my thoughts on this incident with few individuals, mostly federal agents.
	I'm sure you can understand my reluctance to entertain your questions, given the sensitivity of this matter.
	But of course, in the Zapruder film, they cleaned it off.
	You don't see the brains blown out to the left in the rear.
	You don't see blood and gore on the trunk of the limousine.
	Even though Jackie is climbing out after a big chunk of Jack's skull and brains that was sitting there on the back of the trunk, which he held in her hand all the way to Parkland Hospital.
	And after they tried his moribund body out of her arms and she composed herself, she walked into trauma room number one and turned to the anesthesiologist Pepper Jenkins, extending her hand and asking, will this help?
	If you go to the next slide, we see an introduction to the tutorial by John Costella.
	That is completely brilliant.
	You can find it online at my website, assassinationscience.com.
	I will be showing some of John Costello's results, but it conclusively shows that the film was tankered with, and I'm going to explain what we now know they had to take out, because as in the case of the first, the limo turn from Houston on down, it was simply too damning to leave in.
	If you go to slide number, the next slide, Life magazine broke the plate twice in order to revise the description, number six, about how they knew from this photograph the direction from which the shot had been fired.
	Any student of geometry knows you can't determine a line without at least two points, but here basically they're citing only one.
	All copies of Life magazine are published from one set of plates.
	Breaking one plate to revise it is incredibly improbable.
	Breaking two to revise it is virtually preposterous, would never happen except here.
	They were complicit in the cover-up.
	And they had to try to give a justification for the claim that he'd been shot from the rear, when in fact he'd been shot from both the rear and from in front, as I've already explained.
	If you go to the next slide, you'll see what happened is, this is the double-hit theory.
	Even in the extant version of the film, although they've taken out a whole sequence I'm going to explain, you still have motion forward from frame 312 to frame 313, and then the violent motion back into the left from 313 through 316.
	Now this is from Josiah Thompson's book, Six Seconds in Dallas, published in 1967.
	Which was the best part of his book because it demonstrated conclusively that there have been at least two shooters and therefore a conspiracy and done on scientific grounds.
	If you look at the next slide, you'll see this is a motion of the body, work from the bottom up, and you see he moves forward there to the right, but then back and to the left as the Not only did Josiah Thompson have a brilliant study of the double hits in his book,
	but David Lifton took photographs of this very sequence of frames, 3, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, to Richard Feynman, who was the most famous physicist in the world at Caltech.
	And Feynman took out a ruler and was able to discern already that Jack had first been hit in the back and forced forward and then back and to the left.
	So we had multiple independent sources.
	And although Josiah Thompson has gone over to the other side, And tries to claim his book offered no proof of conspiracy.
	Obviously that's a duplicitous report because he no longer is willing to support it and in fact was actually going to repudiate conspiracy on the occasion of the 50th until I called him on it when the New York Times began publishing.
	A series of interviews with Josiah Thompson, which I took apart in an article entitled JFK, the CIA, and the New York Times, which you can find online.
	It will also be in my new book on JFK, which should be out within about a month from now.
	If you go to the next slide, about the head wound.
	They blacked out the head wound in early frames, that is to say the blood at the back of the head.
	They altered the x-rays to prove that it did not exist.
	But when I reviewed later frames, I found it was actually visible in frame 374.
	So if you take a look at the next, this is frame 317, and you can see there's no blood at the back of the head.
	Look at how unusually dark it is.
	In fact, a group of Hollywood film restoration experts I've been studying the forensic copy of the Zapruder film, which they obtained from the National Archives.
	It's an extremely high-quality version.
	I've seen it in their studio in Los Angeles.
	It's remarkably clear.
	They were simply appalled at the crudity with which the wound to the back of the head had been actually painted over, literally painted over in black.
	You expand the frame, you paint it over, you reduce it, then you duplicate it.
	Here is what I found in the next slide in frame 374.
	It was my suspicion that they had spent so much time covering up the frames around the 313, the alleged hit, which is actually integrating these two different shots, the one from behind and the one from in front, where the blood spray is actually painted in.
	That's not authentic blood spray.
	It disappears in a single frame, which is 1 18th of a second, which is absurd if it had been real.
	But here I found it in frame 374.
	Look there.
	The pink, by the way, the pink thing is not his ear.
	That's a bone flap that was blown open because of the exploding bullet.
	The bluish-gray area is the region that was the blowout at the back of his head.
	If you go to the next frame, you'll see a comparison between the earlier frames and the later frame, which they overlooked.
	I mean, they just overlooked it.
	And in fact, there are a couple of other frames, as I'm going to explain, where we are able to discern that Jack had the massive defect at the back of his head, which they also overlooked.
	Now, if you go to the next slide, This is about the witnesses to the second stop, not to the turn that Mike has so ably discussed.
	But that we have some 60 witnesses, some saw it slow dramatically, others saw it come to a complete stop.
	The limousine slowed dramatically as it came to a complete stop.
	The stop was such an obvious indication of Secret Service complicity that it had to be taken out.
	Now, head to the next frame, and this is about some of the witnesses.
	One of them is Toni Foster.
	That was a little girl who was running up on the side of Elm Street.
	She was interviewed by Deborah Conway in 2000.
	As Daniel Gallup has observed, Foster has no idea her recollections contradict the official record.
	Tony told Debra, for some reason the car stopped.
	It did stop for seconds.
	I don't even know why it stopped, and all of a sudden it sped up and they went under the underpass.
	I could never figure out why the car stopped.
	The way she delivers these lines, Gallup observed, I doubt Tony had ever seen the accident Z film and had no idea her recollections contradicted the film.
	He said he was reminded of David Lifton's early interviews with the Newmans, who also said the limos had stopped.
	They have no way of knowing in 1971, when the film was not released to the public until 1975, of knowing at the time that the Z film showed no such stock.
	All of this is to say the earliest recollections of individuals are likely to be the most significant, especially if there's evidence of lack of exposure to contrary viewpoints that might influence memory.
	If you go to the next slide, here are several others.
	Billy Lovelady, on the steps of the Texas School Book Depository.
	I recall that following the shooting, I ran toward the spot where President Kennedy's car had stopped.
	Roy Truly, he was at least a supervisor in the Book Depository.
	The car.
	I saw the President's car swerve to the left and stop somewhere down in this area.
	Later, Mr.
	Bellin, who was questioning him for the Warren Commission.
	When you saw the President's car seem to stop, how long did it appear to stop?
	Mr.
	Truly, it would be hard to say over a second or two, something like that.
	I didn't see.
	I just saw it stop.
	I don't know.
	I didn't see it start up.
	Mrs.
	Earl Cabell, this is the wife of the mayor, four cars behind the presidential limousine at the top of L at the time of the shots.
	I was aware that the motorcade stopped dead still.
	There was no question about that.
	Later, as I told you, the motorcade was stopped.
	Later, Mr.
	Hubert, was that when your car at least had come to a standstill?
	Mrs.
	Cabell, every car in the motorcade had come to a standstill.
	Later, we were dead still for a matter of some seconds.
	Those are, you know, just a sampler among the witnesses.
	Right, the next slide, more about the head wound.
	Even Clint Hill, who was a Secret Service agent who runned up on the back of the limo and would push Jackie back down into the seats and then lie across Their bodies confirmed a fist-sized hole at the back of JFK's head.
	It can be defined by Jackie's white glove in crucial frames following 313.
	The x-rays were altered to complement blacking out the wound in early frames.
	If you go to the next slide.
	Here was Clint Hill giving a talk about this at Warwick's bookstore in San Diego, as I recall.
	And he explained how he rushed up to the limo, pushed Jackie back, lay across, and observed a fist-sized hole in the back of JFK's head, turned to his fellow Secret Service agent and gave a thumbs down because it was obviously a mortal wound and JFK was already dead.
	If you look at the next slide, you'll see, interestingly, that while they used the alteration of the Zapruder to alter the other films, they didn't get it quite right.
	Because on the left, you see, in the Knicks film, Jackie goes further back on the trunk and Clint Hill further up than you see in the Zapruder on the right.
	If you go to the next slide, Even if Clint actually touched Jackie, the films don't show him pushing her into the seat, which is what he's maintained for, at that point, 47 years.
	He reported, as I lay over the top of the back seat, I noticed a portion of the president's head on the right rear side was missing and he was bleeding profusely.
	Part of his brain was gone.
	All with hair on it.
	Subsequently, in the Kennedy detail, a book about the Secret Service in Dealey Plaza.
	It includes a sentence which simply astonishes me that it made it into this book.
	And slumped across the seat, President Kennedy lay unmoving.
	A bloody, gaping fist-size hole clearly visible in the back of his head, an observation of enormous significance in relation to the autopsy photographs and x-rays, as well as to the authenticity of the Zapruder film.
	Here, if you go to the next slide, you see where David W. Mantic, MD, PhD, board certified in radiation oncology, which is a treatment of cancer using x-ray therapy, discovered when he studied the official x-rays in the National Archives that they patched an area at the back of the head, which is defined as area P. Notice the dotted lines.
	He did the most brilliant work.
	Using a technique known as optical densitometry from physics, he was extremely myopic at the time, which greatly benefited him in the conduct of this research.
	Look how much that area P that they patched in the x-ray corresponds to the blowout as it can be observed in frame 374.
	If you go to the next slide, You'll see that from, you know, the whole frame of 374 and 375, why they missed.
	You know, they just weren't paying enough attention.
	Maybe they were focusing on Jackie.
	But as you can see just behind Jackie, you can see Jack's head and where I discerned that hole in the back of his head.
	Now, in the next slide, You'll see a series of studies done by Larry Rivera, quite brilliant, where he realized that Jackie's white glove created a background against which you can see the defect in the skull of JFK. It's already noticeable that there's a big chunk of his skull that's missing, which you can see outlined against her white glove.
	If you go to the next slide, You'll see even more so, you can see her left hand versus her right and where the defect is clearly visible in silhouette form outlined against her white glove on her left hand.
	If you go to the next slide, you'll see where Larry diagrammed it to demonstrate its proportions.
	This is a truly fascinating piece of work.
	And in the next slide, once again, you can see how it's outlined in relation to the back of her hand and where in the following slide, You'll see where Larry enhanced the wound using a technique known as Blender that allows you to take a two-dimensional image and get a three-dimensional effect.
	And in the next slide too, you can see the Blender outline and the massiveness of the defect in the back of JFK's head.
	Now, if you go to the next slide, you'll see that the Stemmons freeway sign was replaced.
	A comparison of photos with the location and dimensions of the Stemmons freeway sign reveal that it was replaced, but improperly.
	They misplaced it.
	Although this is not as important as other proofs, it demonstrates that the revision of the film was extensive.
	This is from the work of John P. Costello, another Ph.D., In this case from Australia, whom I flew up to participate in the Zapruder Film Conference.
	Here in the next slide, you can see the sign, its actual location versus where it's beginning to show up faintly at first as to how it was placed in the film.
	If you go to the next slide, You see more clearly how it was misplaced in the film.
	If you go to the next slide, you can see even more distinctly how it was misplaced in the film.
	And if you go to the next slide, you can see once again even more strikingly how in the film they misplaced the Zapruder sign.
	And here's one more where you can see it very, very deliberately, how significantly they got it wrong.
	This is simply further evidence to show that the entire film was reconstructed, reworked and revised.
	Go to the next slide, you'll see yet another indication.
	And in what I believe is the final slide next, Well, it's the next to last, actually.
	Keep going because it just gets more and more prominent, seeing exactly how they misplaced the sign.
	Yes, when you get to the last, if this actually were a PowerPoint presentation, it's a GIF. And looking at it, you would see how the location of the sign, as it was actually present in Dealey Plaza, varied from what it was in the Zapruder film.
	Right.
	Jim, the limousine, when it came out of the stem and sign, even in the extant film, it shows the whole limousine.
	But then suddenly, the limousine is cropped out to just the top part of the limousine.
	Yeah, Mike, I think the fact of the matter is that it was done on a tripod.
	If Zapruder had actually been using his camera, he would have followed the limousine.
	We wouldn't have had the bottom half disappear.
	It appears that that footage was shot by a camera on a tripod inside the pergola on the grassy knoll, Mike.
	That was another point I meant to add in commenting on your remarks about this.
	If we go to the next slide, The assassination scenario, which I've been explaining, JFK was hit at least four times, in the back from behind, in the throat from in front, and at least twice in the head, once from behind and once from the right front.
	There were at least six shooters who fired from eight to ten shots, possibly more, because David believes there may have been yet a third shot to the head.
	And he's addressed that in an interview I did with him.
	You can find in the, if you do a search on the real deal, on the medical evidence with David W. Mantic.
	Now, if you go to the next slide, here's this very famous photograph taken by James Ike Alchens.
	And just notice the locations of Officer Martin on the right, Bobby Hargis, closer to the presidential limousine.
	Officers Cheney and Jackson, they're all identified.
	In red by their names.
	If you go to the next slide, this is a reconstruction of the scenario.
	It was based on the previous brilliant work that appeared in Computers and Automation, which I've supplemented with the additional shots that were fired, where there appeared to have been, the yellow indicate two shots actually from the county records building, one that hit Jack, another that appears to have wound up in the grass.
	That was actually the green.
	The yellow is the three shots fired from the Dow Techs.
	The orange are the shots that were fired from the book depository.
	The side opposite, the assassin's lair.
	If you go down to the bottom, the blue is the shot fired that went through the windshield.
	That now actually is mislocated.
	It should be further into the inside of the triple underpass.
	And where the red is the shot fired from the grassy knoll, where it would have hit Jackie.
	So just as Mike was emphasizing, they were under strict instructions not to shoot Jack.
	So he pulled the shot and it wound up in the grass.
	And then you see in the middle from the intersection of the triple underpass and the big offensive shot fired that hit Jack in the right temple and blew his brains out to the left rear.
	Now here on the next slide I describe the limo stop scenario, the second stop.
	During the limo stop he was hit at least twice in the head.
	Officer Baker dismounted his bike and ran between the cars to the grassy knoll.
	Officer Jackson rode his bike up the grassy knoll.
	Five secret service agents surrounded the presidential limousine.
	We know this Because Fred Newcomb, who is an early generation student, interviewed all four of the motorcycle patrol officers and their supervisor, Stavis Ellis, in 1971.
	And Larry Rivera rediscovered the interviews and analyzed and created transcripts and has now done two videos that I'll cite momentarily as to what they tell us about the sequence of action.
	Here, if you go to the next slide, you find it's remarkably enough.
	Wait one second.
	Jim, I don't know if you have any water, but you're welcome to take a sip of water, whatever.
	I do have a question for you on this particular slide.
	You say that he was hit during the limo stop twice in the head.
	How is that possible?
	What did Jackie do during that time?
	Well, what happened, Gary, was the limo was at a stop.
	He was hitting the back of the head.
	He slumped forward.
	Jackie eased him up and was looking him right in the face when he was hitting the right temple by a frangible exploding bullet that set up shockwaves that blew his brain out the back of his head to the left rear with such force that when they hit Officer Hargis riding there, he initially thought he himself had been shot.
	Okay, so you're not talking about the stop that Mike was referring to in the wide turn.
	No, no, no, no.
	This is completely different.
	This is way down the street.
	Look here at the next slide, Kara.
	You'll see what we're talking about.
	The circle is on Abraham Zapruder.
	Well, what's remarkable about this Newsweek, which was published on 22 November 1993, is that the fatal shots happened when the limousine was further down Elm Street than it's shown in the Zapruder film.
	Notice where number three is located, pretty much opposite the steps up to the grassy knoll and the pergola.
	This is where those shots that I'm describing took place, the two hips to the head.
	And if you go to the next slide, Well, the number doesn't matter.
	This is just laying the foundation.
	The limousine was actually further down, but here you can see the motorcycle officers and the limousine were actually brought to a halt.
	Go to the next slide and you'll see where I have placed him a bit closer to where the shooting actually took place.
	And where, if you go to the next slide, you'll see what actually happened as I've been describing it.
	Officer Hargis parks his bike and runs in between the limos, which of course he couldn't have done if they were moving.
	They were both stationary.
	He ran up the grassy knoll because he was pursuing, he thought, a shooter from there.
	Officer Jackson actually rides his bike up the grassy knoll until it falls over.
	Then he gets off and continues to pursue up the grassy knoll.
	Meanwhile, five agents Swarm out of the Cadillac and surround the presidential limousine.
	One of them takes a chunk of JFK's skull from a little boy and throws it in the back seat.
	Now, if you look at the next slide, you'll see an attempt by me to integrate all of this together to give you an approximate idea of what happened, even though it was taking place further down Elm Street than we have supposed.
	And where, now if you go to the next slide, you'll see that this is from the next film.
	You got an officer who's running up and look just above his head.
	You can see what, look as though there are motorcycle tracks on the grassy knoll.
	And if you go to the next slide, you can see them a bit more distinctly.
	On the grass.
	But I asked Larry Rivera, who's done all this brilliant work, for the best he had.
	And if you look at the next slide, this is actually now from the Bell film.
	Show what appear to be tire marks running up the embankment.
	You notice how much more apparent they are here.
	And if you go to one more slide, you find once again, you know, views, you know, take your pick as to where you can see the motorcycle tracks.
	On the grassy knoll most clearly, again from the Bell film.
	Larry also discovered, as the next slide shows, that the Oklahoma City Times even had a report showing three shots.
	It was horrible.
	The first tip-off of tragedy was when several spectators jumped over a stone wall and started running toward what apparently was the scene of the shooting.
	A motorcycle patrolman Rode Pell Mill up a railroad embankment, apparently in pursuit of the assassin.
	He's talking about the grassy knoll.
	If you go to the next slide, you'll see where Larry has presented his work in two YouTubes.
	The JFK Horseman part one of two YouTube, which was broadcast on the new JFK show number 27.
	And then part two of two, which was also published on YouTube.
	If you go to one more slide, the general situation we have encountered here, which I believe this presentation has resolved.
	The authenticity of the Zapruder film has been among the most contentious issues in JFK research.
	As I shall explain, there's a mountain of proof that the film is a reconstruction from original material using optical printing and special effects.
	In spite of this, even notable figures such as Josiah Thompson and Robert Grodin persist in insisting that it is authentic when it is not even internally consistent.
	And that's because the contrast between frames like 317 and 374.
	There's no blowout in the early frames, but you can see it clearly.
	So it's not even internally consistent.
	We know that the original 8mm already split film developed in Dallas was taken to the National Photographic Interpretation Center in Washington, D.C. on Saturday the 23rd, and that a substitute 16mm unsplit film developed in Rochester was taken there on Sunday the 24th, where two different teams worked on the different versions.
	See, U.S. government official JFK cover-up film fabrication, where I cite the work of Douglas Horn, What you need to understand is that the Zapruder camera used a 16mm piece of film and shot down one side 8mm wide.
	Then you take out the film and flip it over to shoot the other side.
	So if you wanted to play the whole thing continuously, you'd have to split the film and then splice it in order to run it.
	So there were multiple differences between them, physical differences between the two different films brought there on Saturday and on Sunday.
	We also know a half a dozen or more have viewed, witnessed another film, apparently the original, including William Raymond, Rich De La Rosa, Gregory Burnham and several others.
	Rich De La Rosa's description of its content appears as an appendix to the great Zapruder film hoax.
	And see my article, did Zapruder film the Zapruder film?
	Because, and now if you go to the next to last slide, There we have Zapruder and his secretary, Marilyn Zeitzman, presumably filming from on top of a low colonnade, I've got up there myself, the film.
	But Jack White has raised many questions about whether Zapruder could have in fact filmed the film, because in some of the scenes, Zeitzman is blocking his view.
	As the last and final slide reflects, Which is why I put it on the cover, so that I'm dedicating this presentation to the memory of Jack White, where the answer to the question, did Zapruder film the Zapruder film, is an emphatic no.
	No one filmed a film that was created in a laboratory.
	So the answer we know decisively is that Abraham Zapruder did not film the film we know as the Zapruder film.
	Okay.
	Well, that's quite a tour de force.
	Fascinating.
	And I think everyone is going to really appreciate that.
	I'm going to try to get out of this.
	Hold on one second while I try to get this off the screen and back.
	And it seems to be stuck.
	This is a bit strange.
	So in the meantime, though, since you've gotten your sort of overview out there at this point, and I'm going to try to get this...
	This will do it.
	All right.
	There we go.
	Okay, very good.
	So the next thing I'll do is bring you guys back on the screen here so that you can be seen.
	And bear with me here with the way this works, because it's always...
	A little slow.
	Anyway, okay, so we've got both of you.
	Is it possible for Mike to give some of his take on what you've now shown all of us and perhaps add to what you had to say?
	And why he decided to reconstruct that particular area in a model sort of demonstration.
	Had you seen this presentation already, Mike?
	What was your statement?
	No, I haven't, but I have heard about the other film.
	We call it Toph, the other film, the other Zapruder film.
	So I wanted to visualize it since I haven't seen it, like Costello and these other guys, Greg Burnham, so that we can all visualize together what...
	It might have looked like the angle, the low angle, seems to be a better angle than what was possible with Zapruder on the pagoda with Seitzman getting in the way.
	So that is true.
	It teaches us a lesson.
	You can't go with the failed footage.
	If it's not coming out of the can and has a chain of custody by...
	Trusted law enforcement people, and then being shown to you, you can't misadmit it in the court of laws as evidence, and we, the people, should not accept it.
	That's why we still say what the witnesses, the eyewitnesses saw is more important than the film footage, and I don't think this generation believes that.
	I think if this generation sees it on film or on video, they think that's the truth.
	When the people years ago understood Even back then, how things could be faked, I think they had a better handle on what we call objective reality, what actually really happened.
	And we know that this objective reality was put in a can, was put in a vault by the Time Life Company under control of the right-wing fascist Luce family, Claire Booth Luce and her husband.
	And she was highly involved in the war with...
	Raul Dahl, who is RAF, Wing Commander, friend of Ian Fleming, Commander Ian Fleming.
	They had a sexual affair.
	But all he was able to do was make her soften her tone on fascism and be a little pro-English.
	These are some right-wing people.
	They didn't want Kennedy's agenda to continue.
	And that's another thing that I think the causation thing that Jim and I get into such a fight with.
	We both agree, though, that the causation of Kennedy's assassination isn't, you know...
	Frenchie from the French Mob or Chancy Holt or James Files or any of these guys.
	It's somebody that paid them to do it.
	And they could have been anybody that was paid to do it.
	The people that paid to do it in order to hit.
	That's the causation.
	And this generation doesn't seem to understand it.
	This generation seems to fixate on the names.
	Like if we figured out who the individual shooter is, we could get him up out of a grave and pull him in a trial and then find him guilty.
	No, these are institutions that did Kennedy in, like the CIA and the Secret Service.
	This film alteration shows the Secret Service is in on it.
	They need to be punished for this.
	The CIA, the Secret Service, and John LBJ and Connolly need to be punished for being in on this.
	The Russians seem to understand this.
	They'll blacklist people and say we're no longer holding them in high esteem.
	They even changed the name of the KGB to the FSB. There's a little bit of remorse over there in the Russians, Russian Republic, more than we have in the United States.
	So there's some JFK justice we need to be doing.
	We can all agree that causation wasn't the individual shooters.
	I want to bring out that Sir Roger Moore, a friend of Ian Fleming and Jad, John Ainsworth Davis, Christopher Crichton, They were in on it.
	They knew about things going on because you had a month before the Kennedy assassination, the Saint TV show, the episode was called Teresa.
	On October 10, 1963, this episode shows a lady running for her life in Argentina or the South American Hills because her boyfriend had to kill a president with a high-powered rifle and an open motorcade.
	So this is being aired to national media.
	You know, television, you know, here in the United States and in England, was this a warning to the Kennedy administration?
	And I posed that question to Sir Roger Moore and his fans to ask Roger, what was this episode Teresa all about?
	And what did you think 30 or 40 days later when it actually happened with Kennedy?
	I know that Sir Roger Moore has gone on the record in a commentary on Live and Let Die, and he says that he saw the DePritter film, you know, As bad as it is, shown to him by Jim Garrison while they were filming Live and Let Die.
	Jim Garrison brought the cast and crew of Live and Let Die to see the Zapruder film, and he concludes clearly that it was a group ambush.
	So Sir Roger Moore has gone on record.
	It was a group ambush.
	I'd like to know what more does he know about this kind of warning, cryptic warning that was put out there 30 days before, you know, in that episode of The Saint.
	What we're doing here is we're putting that word out to anyone who sees this broadcast on behalf of Mike Sparks asking the question was this a kind of a preview of what somehow Roger Moore was tipped off about from some insider In theory to include him in his film or was this just a serendipity that he happened to what they call a coincidence in which he
	basically was sort of seeing the future.
	I think that there might have been other things along the way.
	Do you have anything to say about that Jim Fetzer?
	Well, yes I do, because Mike isn't distinguishing between distant and proximate causation.
	JFK wasn't killed by an abstraction.
	JFK was killed by specific shooters.
	I've actually identified six of the shooters who were involved.
	There may have been yet another.
	They were acting under directions from their various, you know, handlers.
	They had escape routes.
	They were being handsomely paid.
	They knew they'd never be punished because the new president wouldn't allow them to be punished.
	He would divert attention by creating a Warren Commission.
	Which had never been headed by the Chief Justice because it thereby compromised his role in relation to the Supreme Court.
	Had they actually done their job and fingered or identified who was responsible, the case would have made its way eventually to the Supreme Court, whose Chief Justice had been compromised by participating in the investigation.
	But Lyndon, who was a master manipulator, he could size up a man's strengths and weaknesses almost instantly...
	Badgered Earl Warren into playing that role.
	So, yes, you can talk about the CIA as an entity, but the CIA as an entity didn't kill JFK. It was some specific actors taking specific roles under specific directions.
	The one guy who was in the position to make it all come together, Lyndon used to go to the White House and schmooze with the Secret Service agents.
	He knew these guys backwards and forwards.
	He was the one guy who could ensure that no one would ever be punished.
	He was the one man who had the most to gain.
	He was the one who has been identified by those who knew him up close and personal across the board.
	I've sought to make that point because I'm very troubled.
	That all this talk about Ellen Dulles is going to distract from the actual principal player and bringing about the death of JFK, who was Lyndon Baines Johnson.
	Slow down, slow down.
	Okay, thank you.
	Aided and abetted by J. Edgar Hoover and gave him the information about Jack's dalliances with a woman who was a spy for East Germany and that he suffered from Addison's disease.
	Johnson would not have known that of his own accord.
	Okay, there is a question that I have pertaining to that, which is that Dulles was appointed to the commission, the Warren Commission, and so there is some complicity in the cover-up on the part of Dulles.
	Well...
	Well, sure, of course.
	The JFK conspiracy started with Alan Dulles long before Lyndon Johnson got on board.
	I'm including Lyndon Johnson in that causation.
	But the biggest problem is that we don't blame specifically.
	He was the ex-CIA director.
	He had a whole year, 1961, You're completely out of your depth.
	1961 is when the things started, Jim.
	That's two years before Johnson got it done.
	Wait, wait, wait.
	I want to drill down here because both of you have valid arguments.
	I understand, Jim, that you're very passionate, but this is just a discussion, okay?
	This is not going to change history necessarily.
	Your points have been made.
	It's gone down on this film.
	You're going to make a major presentation.
	I'm sure that will be filmed and put out there.
	And you've written all of these books.
	Your perspective will be known, and please do not worry about that.
	What I want to do here, though, is because I think we're pointing up an interesting area of discussion, which, you know, what it behooves us to do is sort of push the envelope out a bit and talk about different things that are not already talked about in this discussion.
	So to move on, what I would ask you, Jim, Is this not something of a disconnect in terms of maybe your belief or understanding of history and your thinking that this type of thing wasn't going on even prior to the 60s?
	Do you not think?
	That we had a government that was already being taken over by a certain group of people, even going back even into the 1930s, very likely.
	Is this the problem that you have with it?
	In other words, because you want to say it started with Johnson, you believe, because he was not yet president.
	Prior to that, you don't believe the plot could have been coming into place.
	And yet, There could have been other players within the government who were part of the people that put Johnson in position to begin with.
	It might help us to actually go back to the days of Eisenhower and Truman and so on and so forth.
	Do you not go back there to see if there were plot lines that came forward That coalesced in a vice president who felt he could take out the president.
	You can't have a plan to take out a president who isn't even president yet.
	This is the ludicrous aspect of the theory that we're discussing.
	Well, no, actually, Johnson, I read something that said...
	The CIA was the greatest mistake of his career.
	The CIA was conducting assassinations, yes, but everyone expected Richard Nixon to become the president.
	Okay, and we saw what Nixon was part of.
	Richard Dixon was a head of Operation 40, which was named for a room where they met that was a group of assassins that were operating under the direction of the government.
	plan to take out JFK.
	How do you know?
	He only became president after Lyndon had forced himself on the ticket.
	Lyndon did it in order to put himself in the position to accede to the presidency with the death of JFK, which he was fully capable of raising it.
	Right, but I appreciate that.
	Okay, I appreciate that.
	But there is evidence of groups of men who were backing Johnson.
	And Johnson made a joke even before he became vice president.
	One of the things I read said that he, first of all, said he would never...
	There's a joke that he made about the fact that he would never become vice president.
	Over his dead body, he would become vice president because he felt that that was a useless role.
	And what he said was that there's only...
	He made a joke to some woman, you must have known it because you've got such a great amount of information at your...
	I read it.
	I can't remember where I read it.
	Maybe it was this Talbot book.
	But basically there was a joke that Lyndon said in which he said that, well, you know, that every something like presidents don't last very long.
	There's a record over history of presidents being assassinated.
	Do you remember that?
	The joke that Johnson made?
	He wasn't making any jokes.
	What Johnson said was that he was gambling, that he'd studied history.
	One in four presidents had died while they were in office.
	But it was much more sinister.
	This was a very clever guy.
	He knew, of course, the White House had a taping system, even when he was discussing the assassination with Edgar.
	They had a script.
	Edgar couldn't stay on the script.
	Johnson had to bring him back onto the script.
	This whole thing was a Johnson operation from beginning.
	Who is running Johnson?
	Who is running Johnson?
	No one?
	You think the guy is just...
	Johnson was his own financial supporters and he enlisted the assistance from others.
	But you don't understand the cycle dynamics of Lyndon Johnson.
	He did not.
	There are a bunch of actions that took place by the CIA long before LBJ got on this little conspiracy to kill Kennedy.
	And you're ignoring all that.
	He puts himself on the ticket in L.A. Okay, okay, okay, okay.
	Let's calm down.
	Come on, come on, slow down, Mike, okay?
	Thank you.
	All right, thank you.
	All right, now let's...
	Herring versus low neck, Jim.
	Okay, hold on, hold on.
	Mike, Mike, please.
	Okay, thank you, both you guys.
	We have both positions.
	I don't like this information.
	I don't like moaning.
	I don't like liars.
	Okay, Mike, please.
	And I've known Mike to be an honest guy, but he's been taken in.
	He doesn't know what he's...
	Okay, look.
	Guys, I'm going to have to mute you if I can't get you to stop.
	I'm asking you to just let me speak here.
	I've got people in the chat.
	I want to offer them the opportunity to ask you guys questions before we close this down, okay?
	Sure.
	We've covered these topics, I think, sufficiently.
	If there is anything missing, maybe it'll occur to us as we go along.
	At this point, I'm opening it up to the chat.
	We have a great audience here who have been listening to all of this.
	I appreciate your passion on both sides of this story, and I think that these points have been made very clearly.
	Now, one person, I did see one question early on that was, I guess, a little confused by the blocks.
	You know, the film, what appears to be the film around the outside, they're wondering why it's shown like that.
	Why are the photographs shown with the film sort of edges?
	Yeah.
	I guess that's what they're asking.
	They're trying to show more information.
	It had to do with the design of the camera.
	And actually, the sprocket holes created a linkage.
	The sprocket holes linked the frames together so that if you did not reshoot all the frames in the laboratory, it would have been obvious that it had been edited.
	So they had to edit the individual frames and then reshoot it to create the right sprocket hole images that link one frame to another.
	There are many versions of the film where you don't even realize there are sprocket holes there.
	What we showed was the A combined cut.
	Absolutely brilliant piece of work for you.
	Corrects two different kinds of distortion.
	Aspect ratio distortion and pincushion distortion.
	He gets the frames in the right sequence.
	Even the previous most highly touted version had missing frames and frames in the wrong order.
	John Costello has straightened it out so that what I gave you to show tonight, Gary, is the best available version of the Zapruder film.
	Alright, thank you.
	Someone here, we've got questions coming right away.
	Someone wants to know something to do with a Jew murdering a witness to the murder.
	What are they talking about?
	Anyone know?
	Well, that would be about Jack Ruby.
	They're referring to Jack Ruby being Jewish.
	Okay, and does this question make any sense?
	Well, you would say that the Oswald that was in the Texas School Book Depository was just a witness.
	He was in the doorway watching, at best, the closest he got to a gun that day.
	So that could be him referring to Ruby.
	So he's saying a Jewish person murdered another Jewish person.
	Lee Oswald wasn't Jewish.
	Oh, he wasn't.
	No, he's talking about Ruby being Jewish.
	Now, Ruby is supposed to have shot Lee Oswald during the transfer.
	We all have believed that forever.
	Believe it or not, Ralph Sinque has discovered evidence that, in fact, that wasn't Jack Ruby.
	It was an FBI agent.
	Jack wasn't considered to be sufficiently reliable.
	And they trained Jack for that just as they framed Lee for the shooting of JFK. This is all brand new stuff.
	Carrie, the stuff about that it was actually an FBI agent who shot Lee coming through the The basement of the police department.
	Okay, can I ask you this question?
	And please, one at a time, don't explode.
	What I'm seeing here, and in reading, I have done a fair amount of investigation myself in this way.
	I know I cannot match you in any way, shape, or form.
	I don't pretend to, Jim Fetzer.
	But I'm simply asking you questions as we go along that do occur to me and have occurred to me over time.
	I am wondering, because you're saying Johnson was the henchman or whatever you want to call him, basically it looks like he would have had to order CIA as well as FBI. Isn't that right?
	He would have had to have both of them under his sway in order to carry this out.
	Isn't that right?
	Oh, yeah, sure.
	He and Edgar were neighbors.
	Edgar was the godfather to one of Lyndon's daughters.
	I mean, they were tight.
	They both hated the Kennedys for their own specific reasons.
	They were collaborators in this.
	All right, okay.
	Let's see.
	Another question that's here.
	Again, put them in all caps if you do want.
	Somebody wants to know something about James Files' confession.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Files, Mike referred to Files.
	He's a guy who claims he fired the shot from behind the grassy knoll.
	That was actually fired by Frank Sturgis, not by James Files, unless you have yet another shooter, which is not impossible.
	Why I discredit Files is for the following reason, though he might fit David Mandick's belief that there was yet another shot to the head.
	Files claims that he was brought to Dealey Plaza by a mafia hitman named Chucky Nicoleto, who asked him the morning of the 22nd, would he assist him in shooting the President of the United States?
	Now that is simply incredible.
	This was planned in great detail.
	They even appear to have rehearsed it.
	You wouldn't bring in a guy the morning of the shooting, so that's ridiculous.
	Second of all, he never talks about the limo stop that set up his shot.
	If he'd actually taken the shot he claimed to hit JFK in the forehead, then he would have had to mention the limo stop, but he didn't mention the limo stop.
	Third point, however, he talks about a Remington Fireball, which is a handgun with a shoulder mount that's a high-velocity pistol, a.223 caliber pistol.
	That weapon might have been used in the assassination, but Files was not a shooter.
	Okay, Mike, do you want to say anything here?
	Yeah, we have him claiming to be it, and that's muddying the waters.
	So what I'm trying to say is the CIA plan originally was to have red herrings.
	The red herring patsy is what Oswald represents.
	There's many Oswalds, at least two that were circulating throughout Dallas doing weird things, drawing attention to themselves.
	That's the CIA blueprint.
	That blueprint changed when LBJ became president, and he said, we're going to switch to lone nut.
	So when he met with Kassenbach, his attorney general, they decided we're going to say just a lone nut just conjured up this scheme.
	Well, the problem is what happened in objective reality was already the red herring tatsy plan of Allen Dulles and Lansdale.
	They're already doing all these weird stuff to point in all different directions at all different groups.
	So if you blame everybody, nobody gets the heat.
	Nobody gets convicted.
	Nobody has their bureaucracy dismantled.
	Okay.
	Well, let me let me.
	What I'm trying to say is it's the weirdness factor.
	I appreciate that.
	We start having this fetish about the shooters.
	We forget about the causation.
	I'd rather have to debate with Jim and others about causation than to have to fetish what was Files or was it Sturgis?
	You know what I mean?
	I appreciate that.
	The most important thing is who ordered them to do this.
	Okay.
	All right.
	Fair enough.
	Let's move on then, okay?
	So it looks like that Jim Mars interviewed James Files, someone else said.
	It is significant to me, just commenting on this, that Lee Harvey Oswald, in the mind of the Americans, regardless of what the plans were, seemed to be the only guy that anyone remembers.
	The people that study this, of course, know differently, but all those red herrings you're talking about, Mike, don't seem to be very successful.
	If they were put in place, because they certainly didn't make it out past a year or two.
	And I never heard anyone talking about, you know, other Lee Harvey Oswald.
	No, but when you talk about Lee Oswald, not Harvey Oswald or Lee Harvey Oswald, he's a construct.
	You talk about various aspects of the red herring things that Lee Harvey Oswald did.
	It's not possible for Lee Harvey or one Oswald to have done all the things that he supposedly did.
	So I call him a red herring patsy.
	He's full of red herrings.
	So it worked.
	All right.
	Yep, absolutely.
	All right.
	So let me see if there's someone else here that wants to ask a question.
	Any other clear questions?
	Let me see.
	It looks like are the same ones behind the killing of JFK also the ones behind 9-11?
	And we're going to go one at a time.
	Fetzer...
	Well, 9-11 was brought to us by the CIA, the neocons in the Department of Defense and the Mossad.
	It originated in the fertile imagination of Benjamin Netanyahu, who wanted to find a way to draw the United States into military action against the modern Arab states that served as a counterbalance to Israel's domination of the entire region.
	And they went about with a very elaborate scheme.
	My next most recent book is actually on this, about how it was done, who is responsible, and why.
	But you can talk about, you know, General economic interests in 9-11.
	Certainly the CIA was involved in 9-11, but this was more geared toward foreign policy.
	There was a gold scam.
	They did loot the Federal Reserve of gold.
	They did destroy Building 7, which had all kinds of investigations about Wall Street firms whose records were thereby destroyed.
	But I don't think it's quite continuous.
	What you did have, however, It was a transformation in the character of the government, because after Jack's death he had a succession of presidents who would never have occupied that office.
	But for his demise, Lyndon Johnson, Richard Nixon, Gerald Ford, Jimmy Carter was an exception.
	But then you get Ronald Reagan, who's shot, so let George do it.
	George Herbert Walker Bush, who was actually supervising the shooting team in the Daltex, believe it or not.
	Richard Hook has a completely brilliant article about this entitled Did George H.W. Bush supervise a JFK hit team, to which the answer is yes.
	There's more that could be said.
	And of course, W would never have been taken seriously.
	But the fact of the matter is every president since JFK has known that they were living at the end of a rifle barrel and could be taken out at any time.
	Sure.
	Okay.
	Mike?
	Yeah, can I answer that?
	Yeah, I think it was continuous.
	And I think the difference is that Jim's view of the world is a little shallower than mine.
	I think that there is a deep oligarchy that runs the United States, the Rockefeller Illuminati, we call them.
	We've seen exposés of the Rothschild Illuminati with Hillary's trips to the pedophile island.
	This is a sick eastern establishment elite, which you can see in the movie The Good Shepherd.
	If you watch that movie, it reveals the origins of the CIA, is in the eastern establishment, and these are right-wing fascist people who actually created the Nazis, funded them in the 30s, wanted them to be an experiment in world domination.
	So what 9-11 was is a continuation of the military-industrial complex of the Rockefeller-Illuminati.
	Crime family, secret society, demented people that are trying to gain hegemony.
	I don't think it was Israeli-centric as Jim has it.
	America was hurting in terms of economic inputs during the Clinton era.
	They were Rothschild Illuminati people.
	They're stressing, you know, hugging trees and being kind to ethnic groups and all kinds of things.
	Military budgets were down.
	They were very down.
	I know I couldn't even get jump school if I went there and paid for it myself in the 90s.
	So the military industrial complex said we need a new boogeyman, something reliable, so they created Islamic terror.
	So the 9-11 false flag attacks.
	You'll see that there's antecedents in it in World War II deception operations.
	One of the Kennedy brothers was flying a plane, a bomber full of explosives, and it's supposed to ram the V3 German long-range artillery guns in the side of a hill in France, but it blew up here maturely.
	You will see that we rammed the docks of Saint-Never with a Campbelltown, you know, an old U.S. destroyer filled with explosives.
	So you will see that there are antecedents to 9-11's story in the military-industrial complex in World War II. What were the deception operations of World War II? These false flag attacks, which is taking these ideas, which is why I go back to The Saint having an episode where somebody's getting shot in a high-powered rifle and open motor carry.
	These ideas are being circulated around the military-industrial complex.
	And that's where the idea finally was put into motion.
	Now, Jim will tell you all day long that there were false flag attacks, and they usually proceeded by, like, Operation Mongoose was going to do some.
	You have, you know, Operation Northwards in 1963, where they would pretend to have an airliner get shot down and inflame the American people.
	So people dreaming up of dragons to slay, We'll come up with these false flag scenarios in training and in false, you know, situations where it's just a drill and then the drill goes live.
	Jim will be here all day talking about that.
	But I think the main goal was American hegemony for the Rockefeller Illuminati who also did some revelation of the method by having the towers burning in tarot cards or having, you know, TV shows like Get Smart talking about a building with Thank you, thank you.
	World Trade Center has a thermite built into it, just like Ian Fleming did in his story, The Spy Who Loved Me.
	All right.
	And recently on an interview with Jay Widener, he has a fascinating story about how 9-11, the actual buildings were actually built to be demolished in this way, showing premeditation in the extreme.
	However...
	At this point, rather than continuing that discussion, I want to ask you guys, somebody has asked a good question here, is Trump's life in danger?
	This is going to be the last question.
	We're going to have wrap-up comments, and this is it.
	So, this is the last question.
	James Fetzer, is Trump's life in danger?
	Looking back over history.
	Absolutely, 100%.
	He represents a new broom that's going to sweep clean.
	He's upsetting the apple cart.
	Things are going to be dramatically different.
	An historian six months ago said that if Trump were to become president, that the ramifications would be as dramatic as when FDR introduced the New Deal.
	Even William Bennett, who is the Secretary of Education under Ronald Reagan, said they'd never let him become president.
	They would assassinate him.
	There have already been two assassination attempts, one in Trump Tower, one out in Reno.
	But the fact is, yes, if Donald survives, I believe he's going to be one of the most consequential presidents in our history, and that there may be extreme measures taken to ensure that that does not come to pass.
	Thank you.
	Okay, Mike, your turn.
	Yes.
	Trump is in extreme danger.
	He needs to act and not delay like John F. Kennedy did by keeping Alan Dulles in power for a whole year.
	You've got an enemy in the CIA. Trump needs to disband the CIA immediately.
	We have 12 intelligence agencies doing intelligence work.
	We don't need one that says it's doing intelligence work and doing sabotage and dirty tricks.
	Now, one of the things that he needs to understand is this factor called MKUltra, mind control.
	It is possible to hypnotize anybody to say everything they know.
	And to make them do things against their will.
	The American people don't understand this, but it's a fact.
	You can say, look at Sirhan, Sirhan 1968.
	But it's a fact of reality.
	We have the technology to make people do things against their will with hypnosis, not drugs.
	The drugs are just supposed to overcome people's resistance to hypnosis.
	Those are what you're seeing in all these shootings that are taking place that are trying to take gun rights away from people.
	These are being instigated by the CIA.
	So I don't know how many more counts of treason, espionage, and sabotage the CIA has to do against the republic.
	They're not working for us.
	They're working for Wall Street and the Rockefeller Illuminati.
	Trump needs to get there before they get him, so he needs to disband the CIA.
	As soon as he realizes that they are the people behind this stuff, he's got to put them out of power or else they're going to do him in.
	That's all over his turn.
	Thank you.
	At this point, we're going to have wrap-up comments.
	So we're going to go one at a time and then we're going to shut this down.
	I want to thank both of you for your generosity of spirit, for your passion, because it's very important that we have passionate people who care about what happens to America and the rest of the world.
	And both of you are obviously well involved in all of that and dedicating your hearts and souls regardless of whether people disagree with you on certain points or not.
	It's very clear that you are passionate Americans that really care what happens to everyone in America and the world.
	And that's what people should take away from here, if you ask me.
	But at this point, I want to give you a chance, James Betzer, to not only tell people where to find your material, but to give us some wrap-up comments and also please tell them where to come see you speak, where you're going to be speaking this weekend.
	Well, it's in Dallas.
	You can track it down.
	Just check JFK Conference, Judith Berry Baker, and you'll get the schedule, the hotel, the whole bit.
	I think it's the Royal Crown Hotel in downtown Dallas.
	Let me say, I mean, I have, you know, I have done so much on JFK. There are three different versions, you know, what happened to JFK and why it matters today in 2011, and something like...
	Well, the more recent is JFK at 50, The Who, The How, and The Why.
	You can find these online in addition to the new book that will be forthcoming.
	Let me just say, however, Mike Sparks is a good guy.
	He's super smart.
	We have had a lot of positive collaboration in the past.
	He even offered to and created a video channel in my name.
	And I approached him about the idea of creating a visualization of what had actually happened in Dealey Plaza.
	I really was talking about the second hit.
	The second stop, he focused on the first and I think that he made a lot of valuable contributions here.
	And if we were to sort it out, we'd probably find that we agree about much more than we disagree.
	Alright, thank you.
	Website, do you want to give your link to your website, Jim?
	Oh, jamesfetzer.blogspot.com and the books, moonrockbooks.com where my book on JFK and all these books are collaborative.
	I bring experts on different aspects of the cases together.
	I think the JFK book will probably be up in a month or by the end of the year.
	So go to moonrockbooks.com and check it out.
	And we're going to do one last thing.
	I want you to tell people, because you both have great backgrounds, I want people to know who they've been listening to.
	You've got a PhD, isn't that correct?
	Yeah, sure.
	I was commissioned as a second lieutenant in the Marine Corps upon graduation from Princeton, where I was magna cum laude in philosophy.
	I resigned my commission as a captain to enter graduate school and enter a PhD in the history and the philosophy of science.
	I had a 35-year career at a wide range of colleges and universities.
	Kentucky, Virginia twice, Cincinnati, North Carolina, Chapel Hill, New College, the University of South Florida.
	The last 19 years on the Duluth campus of the University of Minnesota.
	I have hundreds of articles and I think now 33 books.
	And, you know, I've been devoting my...
	Most of my courses were logic, critical thinking, and scientific reasoning.
	I retired in 2006, and I've been devoting myself since to exposing the lies, deceit, and deception that the frauds the government has been putting over on the American people.
	Thank you.
	That was beautifully done.
	Mike, your turn.
	Closing remarks, put out your website links, and also...
	Of course, we'll do the shameless...
	You know, promo for my book here, James Bond is Real.
	Hopefully you can see that.
	You can get that book and we will connect the dots between the secret societies that run the world that put the Nazis into power and how James Bond movies warn us about that.
	Ian Fleming was trying to warn us about the Nazis, even though he was a member of the Rothschild Illuminati in Europe.
	The Rockefeller Illuminati in the United States is more powerful ever since 1945.
	It's been 1945 Endgame ever since.
	And so, yes, I spent most of my career starting off a commissioned officer in the Marine Corps also, and then moving over to the Army in the military-industrial complex, working on equipment, designing better equipment so we'd be more efficient.
	And as that was produced, and I actually briefed Illuminati members like General John Keene, Vice Chief of Staff of the Army, they'd nod their head and say, yes, it's a good idea to have an armored vehicle that comes from a helicopter to save lives.
	Then he don't do anything.
	I find out later he's a member of the Bilderbergs.
	So the secret society reality blocking military excellence so we can win wars and end them is a reality that's forced me into the world of conspiracy.
	And when I try to help people like Jim Fetzer, you know, clarify some details.
	So I'll get some scale models like you see right here.
	This is the real star of the show, this scale model of X100 limousine.
	And I'm going to be doing a video for Jim on the second stop.
	And what I'm going to be doing is trying to show all those gunshots.
	That's why I was asking him about how many gunshots were.
	I'll have, you know, some colored cords trying to show where all the gunshots went through so we can have a better understanding.
	And that's what we need to have, is to take the evidence we have and put it together so it's visual, so people can understand it better.
	But then I think we need to go to the causation thing and have a knock-down, drag-out fight, because the next phase is JFK justice.
	We've got to get justice for JFK, and that would only be done while we blacklist people, like LBJ, saying he's not a good president in good faith.
	We don't name Navy ships after him.
	We take every monument that's named after Dulles or Connolly or LBJ. We've got to scratch it off.
	There's got to be some kind of repentance as a nation that we recognize these guys are scoundrels and organizations like the CIA are unsound.
	And I think the Secret Service is also incompetent.
	This is a bit about walking around with a shirt and tie and a thing in your ear and sunglasses.
	That's not going to stop your military threat from attacking and killing the president.
	The average military threat is, you know, a $35 AK-47 AKM assault rifle, and they're not even able to defeat that.
	So I am definitely worried about the safety of President Trump.
	He's got to get them before they get you, and he needs a real effective Executive Protection Agency, the Secret Service is not yet, and I think that he needs to, you know, act while he can before something happens to him and look at the second-in-command.
	One of the things that they did with FDR was maneuver Truman in place that they could control before Henry Wallace, who is a decent vice president who would have exported democracy and freedom and the ability of these third world countries to get on their feet.
	He was a brilliant man that knew how to make agriculture work during the Depression.
	They forced him out of power as vice president at the convention.
	We're talking days before FDR gets reelected, and then they put Truman in place, who's a total stooge for the right-wing Illuminati, even though he's a Democrat.
	But that is probably the worst thing that's happened in the United States ever since.
	No one has topped what the damage Truman has done by creating the National Security Act of 1947, which creates the excuse these thugs, these government thugs, G-thugs use.
	Every time they go around doing crimes, they just say it's national security.
	Every single issue is an issue of nuclear Pearl Harbor.
	We need to revoke the National Security Act of 1947, get rid of the CIA, get rid of this excuse these guys have been using, systemic problems that the United States has, not just a bunch of individuals that we need to demonize, rightly demonize.
	We need to change the way our government works and the entities we have that are working against us.
	All right.
	I know you both could go on all night and you've got great energy.
	I do want to thank you again for coming forward tonight and sharing all of this with us.
	Actually, it's been a lot of fun as far as I'm concerned.
	I hope everyone else feels the same way.
	This kind of thing has to happen.
	We need to have open discussion in America and around the world regarding the issues and start talking to each other.
	So this is a great place to have this go on.
	And thanks for everyone for watching and listening.
	And please continue to research on your own.
	I do want to say that it does appear that both my guests think that Trump is something of a renegade and he's not part of the problem, so to speak.
	And I have some evidence that says that he actually might be part of the problem, that he comes from an Illuminati background, and it Unless he is playing a double role, in other words, a double agent, as it were, and playing a role, and maybe he is in order to stay alive, the indications are starting to appear more and more that he is part of the show.
	I categorically reject that, Carrie.
	I appreciate that.
	Categorically.
	And I have lots of reasons.
	Lots of reasons.
	I'm sure.
	And we can actually have you both on the show in the future to run that down along with other people.
	So again, thank you so much for coming on the show.
	And I think your points of view are well taken, and they're out there now, so people do know how you feel.
	So please, everyone, go to their websites, listen to their presentations.
	I've done other interviews with both of these wonderful gentlemen, and I'm sure that we'll be able to do this again in the future.
	Good night, guys, and thanks again, everyone, for listening.
	Thank you, Carrie.
	All right.
	Thank you.
	Take care.

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