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May 25, 2016 - Project Camelot
02:13:29
CHILDREN OF ROSWELL - INTERVIEW WITH TOM CAREY
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Thank you.
Okay, so we're going live and this is Carrie Cassidy with Project Camelot.
And we've got Tom Carey here, and we're going to be talking about his book, The Children of Roswell.
And I'm very excited to have him on the show tonight.
We are broadcasting via livestream here, so...
So this channel will be going live and then we will be putting this onto YouTube just shortly after the fact.
So that's what's happening with that.
If you just bear with us, we'll bring Tom on just shortly.
But first what I want to do is actually read his bio and I'm going to see if I can...
Skim through it quickly.
So he is a native Philadelphian.
He holds degrees from Temple University and he has a BS in Business Administration from the California State University Sacramento as well and MA in Anthropology.
He attended the University of Toronto PhD program in Anthropology.
He's an Air Force veteran who held a top-secret cryptocurrency Clearance.
Tom is now a retired Philadelphia area businessman.
And, well, it looks like he's been part of MUFON for a while in southeastern Pennsylvania from 96 to 2001.
A special investigator for the Alan J. Hynek Center for UFO Studies, 91 to 2001.
And a member of the CUFO's board of directors from 97 to 2001.
He began investigating aspects of the Roswell incident in 91 for the Roswell investigative team Kevin Randall and Don Schmidt and since 98 has learned has teamed exclusively with Don Schmidt and continued to practice be proactive in investigation in this case.
He's authored more than 40 published articles about Roswell and the events in 1947 and has contributed to a number of books on the subject as well.
He's been a guest on many radio and TV shows and so on.
So all of this is on my website if you want to take a look at it.
And so let's just move along here and introduce you to Tom Carrie and Tom, welcome and great to have you on the show.
Nice to be with you, Carrie.
Maybe you could give yourself a better, more personal introduction than that.
Well, you pretty much covered it.
I was a native Philadelphian.
Public schools, graduated from Temple University.
In Philadelphia, I had an athletic scholarship.
I wanted to be a baseball player of all things when I was young.
And when it didn't come to fruition, I joined the Air Force and became interested in anthropology.
I received a master's degree from California State University in anthropology and attended the University of Toronto's PhD program in anthropology for four years.
Became interested in the...
and we moved back to...
I live just outside of Philadelphia, a little town called Huntington Valley, a little township.
And we've been here for the last 30 or so years.
Became interested in UFOs as a teenager.
Because I couldn't understand what could basically fly rings around our latest fighter jets.
And I wonder what those things were.
Where could they come from?
So I read a few books on the subject and continued my interest into adulthood in a minor fashion as a buff.
So he would be called Until 1980, I read a book called The Roswell Incident by William Moore and Charles Berlitz.
And that book just blew me away because we're talking about not little lights in the sky and things that go boom in the night.
We're talking about a real nuts and bolts craft from another world That crashed near the town of Roswell, New Mexico back in the 1940s.
I said, oh my goodness, I'd never heard of this.
Never read about it in any of the books.
You know, what is this?
And after I finished that book, I really was not interested in any other aspect of the UFO phenomenon.
The lights in the sky, the cattle mutilations, abductions, and all those things just sort of became secondary to this one case, this Roswell incident.
So almost 10 years went by before I read another thing about Roswell.
I mean, there was nothing.
Well, at that time I had become a MUFON State Section Director for Southeastern Pennsylvania because I wanted to become active in investigating UFO cases rather than just reading about them.
And what happened was that One thing led to another, and I wound up also joining the J. Allen Hynek Center for UFO Studies out of Chicago.
That was the second major group.
You know, I wanted to get their publication, which was a monthly report called the International UFO Reporter.
And I read about these two fellows.
One was named Kevin Randall, and the other was named Donald Schmidt.
And we're now in the late 1980s.
This is like 1988, 89, and those two fellows were reopening the Roswell case, the investigation of the Roswell case, because it's been almost 10 years since the first book came out, and that was basically it.
They were going to reopen it and see what was what, see if they could put an end to it.
And so I read a couple of their articles in the I'm an international UFO reporter.
And I said, well, you know, I'd like to get involved in this because there was a story in the case that the craft in 1947, when the crash occurred, was discovered allegedly by a group of archaeologists from the University of Pennsylvania, which is in Philadelphia.
And I'm living just outside of Philadelphia with a background in anthropology and archaeology.
So I called up Kevin Randall.
I said, what have you guys done about trying to find these archaeologists?
So Kevin said, well, we interviewed one or two people, but it just, you know, it didn't go anywhere.
And that's what basically gave it gave up.
I said, well, let me have a shot at this.
I'll go into town and go down to the University of Pennsylvania.
Go into their huge Museum of Anthropology and Archaeology, go to their library, and see what I can find out.
So that's how I got started in the active investigation of the Roswell incident.
The year was 1991, February, when I took my first trip down to the university to see what I could see in trying to find these archaeologists.
It's now 25 years later and I'm still on the case with Don Schmidt.
We teamed up in 1998 because most of the investigators by that time had left the field.
They figured, well, there's nothing else to learn about this case.
So Don and I hooked up and we made our first trip to Roswell together as a team in May of 1998.
And we are still a team.
18 years later, we've written four books about Roswell, the most recent one being The Children of Roswell, a seven-decade legacy, if I got this title right, The Children of Roswell, a seven-decade legacy of fear, intimidation, and cover-ups.
It came out two months ago.
And here we are.
We're still on the case.
Our fourth book.
We are planning a book for next year, which may be our last book on the case.
Because almost all of the first-hand witnesses, the principals, the people involved in the case are gone now.
And that's why we wrote the book about the children of Roswell.
They were either children at the time of the incident and are still alive, or some have passed away, or they were not born yet, and they would be children post-Roswell that are still alive and grandchildren we're talking to now.
So they have a story to tell, and we thought it was worth telling these stories in our current book.
So that brings us up to date.
Excuse me.
I appreciate all of that information.
It's great.
What I wanted to ask you is, because of your Air Force background, and you said you had a crypto, I believe you said a crypto clearance, can you tell me a little bit about what does that actually mean in terms of...
Do you want me to...
Hang up and call again or something?
No, you're actually fine.
We haven't lost contact with you at all.
all.
In fact, now you're back on the air and I'm actually gonna make sure that these...
we have a tiny time lag so I'm waiting for it to catch up.
Okay, we've got you now.
Okay, so I'm not sure what happened there, everyone.
Sorry for that.
I'm going to go back to the questions I just asked, which you were answering, which has to do with your crypto clearance.
And maybe you could, in essence, summarize what you were kind of saying so you don't have to repeat yourself completely.
It does look like we're having some logistical issues here.
It may be that they cut you off when you started to answer that question.
So, if you wouldn't mind answering the question as to your clearance and whether that helped you investigating Roswell.
Well, I had a top-secret crypto clearance, which means that I was cleared for top-secret material only in the cryptographic and cryptological.
That would be coding and decoding messages and things that all the ancillaries that went along with that.
And that was my specialty.
It didn't mean that I was cleared for top secret and everything under the sun in the Air Force, just only the cryptological and cryptographic avenue.
Where my military career, such as it was, four years, helped me is that You get to understand the military mindset of the way things are done, why people think in the military the way they do,
and the channels of the chain of command, how enlisted people think of their superiors, their sergeants, their officers, and vice versa.
So it gives you the The milieu of being in the military.
We've interviewed hundreds of military people over the years, and it's helped me during the interviews to understand their mindset at the time, having been in the military.
Because if you haven't been in the military for two, three, four years, I don't know that you could understand why they did that.
Do and did the things that they did.
So that's how it helped me.
Well, how they did, meaning, so just taking this into the Roswell situation, what exactly did that help you do?
Do you think that it assisted you?
I mean, you understand the military mind, you understand perhaps why they behaved the way they did in Roswell, sort of hiding information, which I'm sure you've You've ascertained by now.
So, any particular other areas that helped you look at the information differently, perhaps?
Well, not differently.
It's just that when I would read memoranda, when I would talk to the military people, I would understand them.
I would be able to empathize with them and understand Why they did what they did and why they're saying what they said to me.
You just understand the pressures they were under, what they were trying to achieve, and understand why they would keep things secret.
Alright, so you understood perhaps the philosophy of the military in regard to ETs and the clampdown on information in that regard?
Yes, yes, yes.
One of the big questions we always get is, why did they cover it up?
Well, the first thing that comes to mind is that in the military mindset, When you don't understand something, you don't broadcast it.
You don't say, oh my goodness, our mission is to keep the American sky safe from intruders and we can't cope with these new things called flying saucers.
Well, you don't want to announce that to anybody because it shows that you're not in control of your mission.
So that's one reason that they would want to cover this up.
You don't want to advertise your shortcomings.
You also want to You know, make yourself look good so you can get that next promotion.
And so to the underlings who want to become overlings, you're not going to go over to your boss, hey, Colonel, can you tell me about that Roswell case?
That's not going to get you your next promotion.
So that's the mindset, certainly of careerists, people who made the Air Force a career.
You want to please your next boss.
Everybody knows that the subject of UFOs, flying saucers, whatever you want to call them, is a taboo subject in the military.
So, if you're making it a career, you do not want to have your name associated with the word flying saucer, spaceship, or anything like that, because it would brand you as a non-serious person.
Right.
I know myself, when I was in business in the 1980s and 1990s in Philadelphia, I had this fellow worker, he was at the same level of You know, responsibility as myself.
He says, oh, I hear you're into that Roswell case.
I said, yes, I've been investigating that.
Oh, please tell me.
Oh, I'm really interested.
I'm really interested.
So I'm thinking, oh, gee, should I tell him?
Because this, you know, could backfire on me because I didn't want anybody to know that this was sort of an avocation for me.
So I told him about it.
Well, every time after that, whenever I ran into him at work, he would go do do do do do do do do.
Just like the theme song from Outer Limits.
So that was a big mistake, because every time I ran into him, that's what he would do.
Okay.
In terms of your own background, though, what drew you to Roswell and to the UFO subject at all?
Did you have a sighting in your earlier life?
Well, I was interested in the subject before I had any sightings, of which I've had three in my life.
But I was interested in this notion that there was something up there that could outperform our latest jet aircraft.
I just couldn't imagine what that was.
And they called them flying discs or flying saucers.
What could these things be?
And that's what interested me.
I just said, I have to...
Find out what this is, because I'm reading about them in the newspaper, and nothing seems to be deterring them.
They come and they go as they please.
And then when I read the Roswell Incident book, that was sort of the real epiphany for me, that this is where I was really interested in nuts and bolts craft, not Things that go flying about at night disappear without a trace.
That's what turned me off as being a MUFON state section director.
All the cases I got were, well, I was out last night and I saw this light go across the sky and it went this way.
Lights in the sky, you can only do so much with, and there's no resolution to it.
So I thought, I want to find out everything I can about this Roswell case.
And I've been on it now for 25 years, and no other case other than that one.
Okay, so you've been on the Roswell case for that long.
Can you tell us, in a very short summation, what you think happened at Roswell?
The reason I'm laughing is a short summation for me is like a half an hour.
All right.
Well, then we'll have to go for that.
I do want to make my way to the actual subject of your book, but just to lay a little groundwork, let's find out where you stand with regard to the normal controversial areas with regard to Roswell.
Do you have a Point of view, and you've been 25 years on this, you must have developed a point of view.
Yes.
I am 99.9% certain that a spaceship from another world, where I don't know where from, we leave that to other people to prognosticate on that, crashed.
It crashed either because of an internal explosion Or an external force like lightning, something like that, caused it to explode and crash in July of 1947.
We think it was the evening of July the 2nd.
On board were five alien creatures, four of whom, or four of which, whatever you want, meant their demise in the explosion and or Having been blown out of the craft and falling to earth.
One survived and was recovered along with the craft, the wreckage, and it lived until we think 1952 when itself expired during some sort of experiment that they were doing with or on it at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base.
The story itself was a two-day story in 1947.
First day, The announcement was that it was a recovery of a flying saucer.
Second day, it was, oh, sorry folks, it wasn't a flying saucer, it was a weather balloon.
So that killed the story in the press, and it was killed for the next 30, let's see, 1947 to 1978, 31 years it remained covered up.
Until the base intelligence officer from 1947 at the Roswell Army Airfield, the first military person at the site, broke silence.
1978.
He was contacted by Stanton Friedman and thus began the civilian reopening and the civilian investigation of the case.
We are still with it today.
Okay.
Do you have areas that you disagree with Don Schmidt on?
Are you guys all in complete agreement?
We're in mild...
There's only one aspect we're in mild disagreement on.
And it's one question that we always get.
If it was a flying saucer that crashed and the military wanted to cover it up, why did they announce it the first time That it was a crash flying saucer.
Was it a local faux pas by the base commander at Roswell, or was it all orchestrated from Washington?
Now, I believe it might have been a local faux pas by the commanding base officer at Roswell.
Don believes that it was all orchestrated From Washington, from the get-go.
Put it out there, then take it away.
And make everybody feel silly.
And I say that's a mild disagreement we have.
We don't dwell on it.
But that's a question we always get.
But everything else we basically agree on.
Okay.
Now, you wrote a book called Children of Roswell.
Why did you write that book?
I understand that you're still going down this area of investigation.
Were you prompted by any particular incident that happened to any of those children that you came across or did one of the children approach you?
How did that all come to happen?
It was a sort of an accumulation of stories that we had gotten from children over the years because we were always interested In tracking down the first-hand participants, right?
The military, the civilians who were actually there on the ground or on the base that saw something or had become involved.
And over the years, as the participants passed away, we were increasingly talking to children.
So we accumulated a lot of stories that we had never published before.
Also, it gave us an insight, looking back on it, as to how this event affected whole families over time.
Psychologists would call it a longitudinal study.
When you study something from its inception through its evolution, they call it a longitudinal or longitudinal study.
So that's what we attempted to do.
With the children of Roswell.
How did this event and the way they were treated subsequently by the military, how did they react to it and how did it affect them since the event?
And that's what we attempted to do in this particular book, was to develop the personalities more because in our first three books it was What happened?
When did it happen?
Where did it happen?
Who saw it?
And that was, you know, boom, boom, boom, boom, like that.
Well, this one we concentrated more on individuals and families, what they went through, just to demonstrate that, boy, this was really something and certainly not a weather balloon that affected them to that degree.
Okay, so in terms of the individual stories, though, did you come across anyone?
I mean, my take on it was that a lot of these kids have been, in essence, persecuted in some form or fashion for most of their lives as it happens.
Did someone approach you in the first place about that, and then did you start You know, doing market research, in essence, among all of the different children, or how did that come about?
Well, as I stated, we took their stories as we went along, but it was only recently, last year, that we got the idea of doing this longitudinal study of how it affected them, because there was one witness, Frankie Rowe, Frankie Dwyer Rowe, Who we've met every July down in Roswell because Don Schmidt and I are speakers every July down there during the festival.
And every year we would meet up with Frankie Rowe and we could see that this event still was affecting her.
She's now in her 80s and only recently has been able to let it go, as you would say, to let this thing go.
But up until recently it had haunted her Other witnesses, it had haunted their entire lives since it happened.
It was twofold.
One, being confronted or faced with something from another world, which is enough in most cases, I would think, but also being threatened with your life As a child, and the lives of your parents.
I mean, I can't imagine.
Frankie Dwyer Rowe, her father was a city fireman in Roswell, and he got out to the site very early, just as the military was arriving, and he saw everything.
And when he got home that night, he told his family about it.
Well, while he was out at the site, Frankie, who was 12 years old at the time, had been in town to have some dental work done.
After she was thrown to the dentist, she went over to the firehouse to wait for her father to drive her home.
While she was there, in comes this highway patrolman on his way home to Hobbs, New Mexico, but he stopped in the firehouse because he knew Knew some people there, and he says, hey everybody, look what I got!
So he reaches into his pocket, he pulls out a, he's got something wadded up in his hand, so he holds his hand, now watch this, and he opens his hand and lets it, and there's this piece of metal just floating in the air, floating in it.
What is that?
Let's see that again.
So he grabs it, does the same thing, opens his hand, and there's that piece of metal floating there, And everybody had a crack at it, looking at it and trying to wada, including Frankie Dwyer.
Her name was Dwyer at the time.
Her married name is Ro.
And so she, the next day, oh, she gets home.
Father comes and picks her up.
At home, you know, well, well, Dad, what did you do today?
Well, I, I only, I was out at a flying saucer crash site.
Oh, tell us about it.
Well, there was this strange wreckage, and boy, I'd never seen anything like it.
It had these strange metal there, but I saw these strange little bodies, about three feet tall, but they had these big heads.
At first I thought they were children, but then I realized that they weren't children because they had such large, pear-shaped heads.
And I'm thinking about this, and all of a sudden I saw something out of the side of my eyes.
Something was moving, and I looked over there, and here was a...
One of them was still alive, walking around.
Oh my goodness!
What did it look like?
So he gave a description.
Well, it was about three and a half to four feet tall, about 40 pounds.
Wasn't walking too good.
It was sort of stumbling around, but it had this big pear-shaped head.
And I knew it wasn't human.
It had a little slit for a mouth.
Just a little slit for a mouth.
Where the nose was, it only had two holes in the front of the face.
And where the ears were, it just had two holes in the side.
No hair.
But it had these wide-set eyes that never closed.
Oh, my goodness.
Well, did you talk to it?
Well, yes.
I did talk to it.
But we didn't talk to one another like we're talking now by using our mouth and our tongue and what have you.
We talked to one another in our heads.
Oh my goodness!
Well, we would call that mental telepathy.
They didn't even know the term back then.
All he said was that we talked to one another in our heads.
Well, what did you say to it?
What did you talk about?
Well, I didn't say too much.
It must have sensed that I was worried about it.
I was wondering, my goodness, what do we got here?
And so the being conveyed to Dan Dwyer not to worry about it.
It's told him, don't worry about me.
My ship has crashed beyond repair.
My comrades are dead.
I'm the only one left.
I'm stranded here.
There's nothing anybody can do.
I accept my fate.
So please don't worry about me.
And I thought that's remarkable, a thought for anybody to be more concerned.
I mean, there you are.
You're stuck on Earth, right?
You know, no way of getting home, and you're worried about someone who's just come to see what's going on.
So that's what they talked about, but it was all mental.
Okay.
This person that you're talking about, one of the children, does her story match up with the other children, or are there discrepancies?
Well, as far as the description is concerned of the Roswell alien, as we call it, they match what others have told us.
Now, what also matches are the threats that were used against her and her family to keep them quiet.
And by that I mean the very next day, there's a knock on the door.
Her father's at the firehouse, of course, working there.
There's a knock on the door and there's this real tall officer from the Air Corps there.
And he's got two other airmen with him.
I don't know if they're NCOs, sergeants or officers, I don't know.
But is Frankie Dwyer home?
And Mrs.
Dwyer, yes, she's here.
May we come in?
We'd like to talk to her.
So they come in and the two other officers or sergeants, they take the mother into the kitchen, close the door.
The big tall officer takes Frankie Rowe into the living room and he tries to convince her that she didn't see or hear what she thought she saw and heard.
That it just didn't happen.
Well, when that didn't work, He took out his billy cleat.
He carried these nightsticks, you know what I mean?
Yes.
And he took that out and he says, okay, you didn't hear what you thought you heard.
Every time he said that he banged the stick in his opposite hand to make an exclamation point.
You didn't hear that.
And you're not to talk about this ever again, because if you do, That's a big desert out there.
We will take not only you and your sister, but your mother and father.
We will take all of you out there and no one will ever see you again.
So, what's a 12-year-old supposed to think?
And they gave the same story to her mother.
If you ever talk about this, we'll kill you and your children, the whole family.
And that matched up With a number of other children and adults who were threatened to keep silent.
And as I said, the cover-up lasted for 31 years, so they did a pretty good job out of it for it.
Well, I'm not so sure, isn't it?
I mean, the cover-up's still in effect, isn't it?
Oh, yes, but we know about the Roswell case.
See, for 31 years, the Nothing was ever said or read about it.
There was nothing about the Roswell case for 31 years.
I'm talking about in the media, books, you know, things like that.
The people who knew about it still knew about it.
They just didn't talk publicly about it.
Where was her father when she was being, in essence, threatened or interrogated?
He was at work at the firehouse.
This was during the day.
And what happened when he came back?
Do you know?
Well, they had all been threatened at the fire station.
So, I'm sure that they talked to, you know, they said, okay, we can't talk about this now and blah, blah, blah, blah.
You know, so we got to keep quiet.
So, we only started talking to Frankie Rowe in the 1990s.
In the 1990s.
So...
The cover-up lasted that long until the first book came out.
And then other people started talking.
Okay, when you say we only, you don't mean yourself, or do you?
You mean you yourself talked to her back in the 90s?
Yes, in the 90s, yes.
All right.
Because, you know, you talk to one person, they'll say, okay, you know who else you ought to talk to?
You ought to talk to Susie over here, or Jimmy.
And one thing leads to another.
We have over 600 witnesses, first and second hand, that went on the record for us.
You're kidding.
No.
Over 600.
Well, in the children book itself, or are you just talking in general?
The total number of witnesses.
Okay.
Start to finish that have...
told us about their involvement in the Roswell case, or what they know about it from others who were involved, is like 625 right now.
Okay, now what about, as far as the children go in this book, do any of the children have direct knowledge of any of it, or is it all secondhand from their parent or that kind of thing?
Mostly it's secondhand from the parents.
Frankie Rowe, of course, had direct knowledge because of her day at the firehouse where she held that piece of wreckage in her hand.
We have another fellow.
I'd have to sit down and make a list of direct knowledge.
There was another fellow.
He was a National Football League player, played for the Philadelphia Eagles.
Who was from Roswell.
His name was Tom Brookshire.
And he was 16 years old in 1947.
And I didn't find out until very late, like in 2008, that he was from Roswell.
I saw him play many times for the Eagles.
And he was an all-star.
His numbers have been retired.
He was that good.
And in 1947, his father...
Owned the main gas station, the service station in town on Main Street.
And the airmen at the base, now the base is like five miles south of the town of Roswell.
The base had about 10,000 people on it.
There were about 25,000 people in the town of Roswell.
And he had the main service station.
And so the Air Corps people who had their own vehicles Would oftentimes fill up their tanks at Tom Brookshire's father's station.
And oftentimes Tom would pump gas for his father.
He'd work part-time at the station.
So he got to know a lot of the airmen at the base from pumping their gas.
He also was an athlete and they would play football against the servicemen and baseball and things like that.
So he got to know quite a few of them.
And I said, well, do you remember?
So I called him up when I found out he was from Roswell.
I called him up in 2008.
He said, now, do you remember the Roswell case?
He says, oh, yeah, I remember it.
So what do you remember about it?
He said, well, what I remember most are two things.
One, when it happened, It was like an iron curtain had descended around the base.
No one could get in and no one was coming out.
For a week, up to a week, it's like a wall had gone around the base.
The only thing that was coming in and going out were aircraft.
You could only go in and leave by aircraft.
Nothing was going by ground.
And when the curtain was finally lifted, they wouldn't talk to us anymore.
All these fellas that he knew, all the people coming into the station, they wouldn't talk to them anymore.
And the town said, oh my goodness, what's going on here?
They're treating us like we don't exist.
I mean, they're coming to get their cars filled up, but they won't talk to us.
And he said, from that point on, It was never the same between the base and the town.
They distrusted one another.
The other thing that he was witness to was that some of his friends from high school, Roswell High School, they stopped in the service station one day and said, Hey, Tom, do you see what Roy Tyner's got?
He's got this strange piece of metal.
It's really weird.
You ought to see it.
Now, Roy Tyner was a welder in town.
He had his own shop.
No, I haven't seen it.
Let's go over and take a look.
I've got to see what you're talking about.
So they go over to Roy Tyner's shop.
Of course, he's got his welder's mask on, and he's welding away there.
And the boys come in, so he raises his lid.
What do you guys want?
We want to see that piece of metal you got.
Nah, get out of here.
No, we're not leaving till you show it to us.
So he turns off his torch, welder's torch, and takes off his mask, goes over to a desk.
Now you can imagine what it's like in a welder's shop.
It's pretty grimy in there.
So he goes over to the welder's desk, he reaches in the drawer, Takes out something and he wads it up in his hand.
He goes back over to the boys.
He holds his arm out straight, shoulder high.
And he opens his hand and there's this piece of metal just floating there.
Why doesn't that fall to the ground?
It's just floating there.
They can't.
So they say, do that again.
So he grabs it.
He says, okay boys, watch this.
And it's just floating there.
And they are just mesmerized by this.
So then he grabs it.
Okay, get out of here.
Well, not until you tell us where you got it.
A friend of mine who was up in a crash of a flying saucer north of town gave it.
He was up there.
He gave it to me.
Now get out of here.
So Brookshire, he was a first-hand witness to the base going into this lockdown for about a week.
And then seeing this piece of strange metal that has been described to us by so many people, seeing that firsthand, what it was doing.
Okay, so how did he, I mean, does he still have that piece of metal to this day?
Roy Tyner was the welder's name.
He died a number of years ago.
I talked to his wife about six, seven years ago.
And what he did is he kept a piece of metal for a couple of years underneath the seat of his pickup truck.
He took it out of the drawer and he kept it under the seat of his pickup truck.
And so one day he decided he was going to sell his truck.
So he sold the truck and a few days later His wife says, he comes in the house.
Where is it?
Where is it?
Where is what, dear?
Where's that piece of metal?
Where is it?
What did I do with it?
Well, last I know, you kept it under the seat of your pickup.
Oh, that's right.
Wham!
Out he goes.
And to cut to the chase, he found the truck, but the piece was gone.
And he never found it again.
So it's things like that.
All the ones that we have become aware of over the years have disappeared over time.
We believe there are still pieces out there that people are holding on to, especially the ranchers.
They're not coming forward for who knows why.
But we believe that for certain there are still pieces out there.
We know of two places Where we believe a piece of it lurks, but there are houses that civilians own, and of course they won't let us dig up their living room floor.
Well, actually, I've held a piece in my hand because I interviewed a guy, and at the moment his name is escaping me.
It's on my channel.
But, you know, we interviewed him and I think we filmed holding on, you know, touching the piece of metal.
It was quite a tiny piece.
It sat in my hand.
And the one thing about it is that it actually had energy.
I can feel energy in my hands and in vortexes and so on.
And I can tell you that it was actually slightly warm.
It generated a field of energy.
Did he say it was from Roswell?
Yes, I believe he does say it's from Roswell, although his specialty was another crash retrieval in New Mexico, which I forget the name of it.
Aztec.
The other ones that come to mind are Aztec and...
Yeah, I can look it up while we...
You'll have to get the name for me.
Yeah, I'll be happy to.
And I'll give everyone the link in the chat here.
I'll look for the interview.
But to get back to the subject here, so you've got a number of people that were threatened.
And you've got over 600 witnesses.
How many are these...
How many children did you interview that are specifically in the book, children of Roswell?
All the children that we interviewed are not in the book.
Because, you know, we have word count issues with the publisher, so we can't put everything that we would like in the book.
But we have enough of them in there.
I mean, some of the stories are...
Like the Frankie Rowe story we covered in some of our other books, but the other stories are all new.
And to me, they're just fascinating how various people reacted.
And even some of them had a piece of that metal we're talking about.
And they, you know...
And...
Geez, we have, let's see, I have the book in my hand, I can tell.
Alright, well, I guess, go ahead.
We have 14 chapters, chock full of new information.
And, you know, I would like to just refer to some of them, but not in the detail that I just gave you.
We would like them to buy the book to find out.
Absolutely.
Some of the children are gone now.
Some of them are gone.
And like Tom Brookshire, I didn't know it at the time because I always had planned to do a videotaped interview, a sit-down videotaped interview of him because he's famous around Philadelphia, in the Philadelphia area.
He's a famous football player.
He was also a famous broadcaster.
After his career was over, he went into broadcasting and became famous there.
Well, I interviewed him in 2008 and 2009 and in 2010 he died suddenly from gallbladder cancer and nobody even knew he was sick.
From diagnosis to death was less than six months and he was gone.
So it reminds me that I should not put things off.
Okay, fair enough.
Let's see.
We interviewed Chuck Wade is his name.
So the guy that I interviewed, his name was Chuck Wade.
I know Chuck.
And he was the one who had the piece of what you might call that, although...
Plains of St.
Augustine.
Plains of St.
Augustine.
He was working on.
I probably should not comment on Chuck Wade, because my mother told me, if you can't say anything nice about somebody, don't say anything at all.
Okay.
Well, I can say that we have a very interesting interview with him, and People, I'm not sure why they sort of tend to disagree about things.
I can say there was another gentleman, I think it was Don Schmidt, that might have been at the table at the same time, because I have come across him as well.
Anyway, for what it's worth, I believe that piece that we had held did not belong to Chuck.
I think he got it or loaned it from someone.
Chuck is working at a site on the Plains of San Agustin that was identified by a gentleman named Gerald Anderson.
Early in our investigation of the Roswell case, this would be like in the early 1990s, we determined beyond a reasonable doubt that Gerald Anderson was a fabricator of information.
So we dismissed the Plains of St.
Augustine site as a real crash site.
And I know that Chuck Wade has been working on that site.
He's been working with a fellow...
Oh, his name escapes me right now.
Art...
Yeah, that's right.
Art...
It might be here in my...
Art Campbell.
That's exactly right.
And I've been in touch with Art as well.
Well, God bless you.
And he has some very interesting information.
I mean, you know, and I appreciate your point of view.
However, I do think that there's a tremendous amount of what you call misdirects going on with regard to the Roswell case.
And I'm not sure why that is.
And also any of the cases, really, crash retrievals, etc., in New Mexico and that area.
Um, we ourselves went out to one of these areas.
I don't, I don't know if it was, I don't think it was St.
Augustine, um, trying to remember the name of the area that we went to, but, you know, I, I, this is not my, um, sort of specialty, this investigating this particular case, so I don't have a great memory for all of the details.
Uh, but at any rate, I can tell you that we We're shown a lot of sort of circumstantial evidence on the ground and so on.
You know, trees that seem to be burned, areas that had strange sort of gouges and this and that.
But it's, you know, when you're doing this kind of work, it's kind of like a smoke and mirrors.
There's a lot of misdirects.
There certainly are a lot of misdirects.
I... I could give you one right now.
Down in Roswell, just north of town, they have this big sign out there that says, UFO Crash Site.
I don't know if that's the site you went to, but that's not the site.
I mean, that's not the site.
No, we didn't go to the Roswell crash.
We went to another one.
You know, another sort of off the beaten track.
It was very far off the beaten track.
Well, can you tell me who directed you there?
You know, this has been a while, so I forget who it was brought us out there.
Okay, well, there have been a number of districts.
Another misdirect, one I just told you, was called the Corn Ranch site.
In the early 90s, we thought that might have been the crash site, but it was based on, again, The directions from a fellow that we finally exposed as a hoaxer.
So that went off.
There was another one, what they call the Pine Lodge site.
This was another alleged site for the Roswell crash.
Again, there was another hoaxer that had pointed this site out.
His name was Jim Ragsdale.
And that turned out to be a hoax.
So there's been a number...
Well, you know, there's charlatans in everything.
Yeah, I guess so.
But I also think that sometimes what appears to be a hoax isn't.
And we get all kinds of different stories around them.
So in terms of these children and the threats that they've endured...
Do you know of any particular kids that tried to break the oath or come forward in whatever way and possibly were injured or killed?
We have a story I'd have to think about that one.
I know that one adult turned up dead in a motel a few years later with a plastic bag over her head.
The coroner thought Listed it as a suicide, but yet she had scratch marks on her arms and bruises on her hands as if she was trying to fight off somebody.
But she had been talking about the case.
It never left her.
She worked in the base hospital and she noticed one day, this was during the time of the incident, that there were a lot of strange doctors in there that she had never seen before.
Well, who were they?
Well, her boss, who was the director of the hospital, said, follow me.
So he took her down to the emergency room and she saw these number of gurneys in the emergency room.
She thought they were, oh my goodness, they got their children.
They got children here.
And then she saw the big heads with the wide set eyes that never closed.
I said, oh my god, they're not children.
I don't know what they are.
They're not human.
Well, according to her sister and her brother, years later when we interviewed them, the wide set eyes on these creatures, they dishonored her for the rest of her life.
And like I said, she wound up dead in a motel with a plastic bag over her head.
And It was decided by the coroner that it was suicide.
Now, I'm no suicide expert.
I mean, I don't have suicidal thoughts, but I don't know that the plastic bag over your head is the way to go.
It's more like sleeping pills would be the more humane, if you want to use the term, humane way to go.
That's one case where there was a suicide or she met some untimely death.
Oh yes, there was another death.
A young fellow by the name of Dan Richards.
Now we know for a fact that he had been out to the site.
He was a teenager at the time of the incident.
And he lived on a ranch with his folks up near Corona.
There were a lot of caves and sinkholes in the area.
And he had a special cave where he would keep contraband.
Things that he had...
He was a ne'er-do-well and he had this habit of taking things that weren't his.
And he would store them in this cave.
That it was a secret cave.
And we had heard this story from a few of the other witnesses that we talked to.
So we set out to find Richards Cave.
Richards himself, he died in 1950 in a solo automobile accident.
He had just gotten his driver's license, had it driving his pickup truck, speeding, and he rolled it, ran into a telephone pole and killed himself.
So we spent the better part of 10 years looking for his cave.
And we finally found it.
In 2000 and...
somewhere around 2005, we finally found it.
We have a picture of it in our book.
I took the picture and it shows Don Schmidt kneeling in front of the entrance.
And I want to leave something mystery for your audience to purchase the book.
But we did finally find Richard's Cave.
And there's a whole story that goes with it.
Part of it is really hilarious about our travels to Richard's Ranch to interview the Richard's family and what we ran into there.
I want to leave something.
I want to read about that.
Yeah, I appreciate you.
You've done a lot of work.
You obviously need to sell some books to make it worth your while.
You know, the thing is, Kerry, we hear that we get stories of someone, oh, I'm going down to Roswell for a weekend.
I'm going to solve that case.
We've been on it for 25 years.
We think we've basically solved it, but we're still looking for corroborative witnesses or somebody that will say this When we believe that.
We're looking for...
We're on it until the last witness or we croak or the government comes clean on it.
So, we are on the case.
Next year will be the 70th anniversary of the event in 1947.
Now, to put that in a context, someone who is 20 years old In 1947, next year will be 90.
So if you're a young airman, 20 years old, still alive, next year you'll be 90.
And that shows you how far removed we are now.
We can see the case sort of passing before our eyes as we are now on the children and now the grandchildren that we are interviewing.
And so we hope to do our final book next year with a final verdict on the Roswell case.
And I don't see anything at this point that will change our core belief of what happened in 1947 and thereafter and the parties involved.
Well, that is interesting.
Now, have you heard about some of the strange theories that are out there?
There is one person who believes that actually the craft were Japanese.
Have you heard that theory?
We've heard that it was a Japanese balloon bomb.
But that would have meant...
See, the Japanese...
In 1945, launched 9,000 of these balloon bombs, huge balloons carrying a bomb that would get into the jet stream and go across the Pacific and drop down.
A lot of them actually landed, but there was only one that actually injured some people.
They kept it secret because they didn't want to let the Japanese know that they were meeting with success in launching these things.
But I believe a total of six people were killed in Oregon when one of them exploded.
But it occurred in 1947, so you'd have to think, oh, it would have to have stayed aloft somehow for two years.
And they were made out of rice paper.
Yeah, no, I mean, I don't think that that is the theory that I'm actually talking about.
But, you know, it happens to be a researcher...
I can't remember his name, but at any rate, it doesn't seem logical based on a lot of the witness evidence about what are, in essence, the creatures themselves.
For a lot of these theories, Curry, you have to throw out 625 witnesses for some of these theories.
You have to just throw away the witnesses, and you can't do that.
You can't do that.
You have to go with what, you know, the, what do they call it, the Occam's razor.
You know, the concept of Occam's razor is when you, in science, when you have competing theories for an event or for an observation, the simplest theory that explains it is the one you got to go with.
Fair enough.
Yeah, I would agree.
Well, in this case, you know, it's a little bit more involved when you get the government sort of messing around with the evidence themselves and putting out things like balloons, even recently balloons and dummies and things like that.
So that shows a certain level of desperation.
It is very interesting.
Now, in terms of the actual craft, have you...
You examined a lot of, I don't know, drawings or whatever of the craft, and is there a certain shape of craft that you have landed on seems to be the correct one.
Yes.
In the 1990s, one of the witnesses claimed to have been involved in everything related to the craft, I mean to the recovery of the craft and the bodies.
His name was Frank Kaufman.
And he described it as a bat-winged affair, you know, almost like a delta shape, like a bat-winged.
And they even made one of the plastic model companies, Revell, I guess it was Revell, came out with a Roswell, they called it a saucer, but it was actually a bat-winged affair.
And they still sell that.
And Linda Howe even had one made by...
One of the companies that deals in silver, and she had a silver model of it built, a limited number.
Well, it turned out, and that was in the 90s, and we thought, oh, we pretty much got it nailed.
Well, that witness turned out to be a hoaxer.
So we had to throw away that image of that Delta craft.
Okay.
And so what we're left with is that we noticed that in a lot of the testimony of people that we knew were at the crash site and looked at the wreckage and held some of the wreckage in their hand, they talked about very gentle sloping, very gentle circular.
So our conclusion is That even though it was blown to smithereens, little pieces, that it was a disk, a classic flying saucer that blew apart.
And what was left was an inner cabin or some sort of escape capsule or inner cabin that was able to withstand the explosion and continued on for another 35 miles before it came to rest.
Much closer to Roswell.
And that's where the one that was walking around came from, was where the inner cabin came to rest.
So we believe it was a disc, but that there was a part of it that withstood the explosion, which was actually egg-shaped.
That was egg-shaped and came to rest unharmed.
So...
Well, do you have in your book, whether it's Children of Roswell, or you could give the titles of the other books as well, but do you have photographs or drawings that you've had people do to depict what you think is the craft or the witnesses think is the craft?
Yes.
In our previous book, we've done four books.
Our first one was two editions.
Witness to Roswell is what it was called.
Then we did a book called Inside the Real Area 51, The Secret History of Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, where all this stuff was taken after the crash.
It was all taken to Wright-Patterson.
And the current book, The Children of Roswell.
Well, in our first book, which you still can get, Witness to Roswell, we have a computer simulation of the Lowboy tractor trailer taking this egg-shaped object and we know for a fact it went right down Main Street from the crash site right down Main Street and Roswell to the base.
We got witnesses all along that trajectory and we have a computer simulation.
It's a very good, in fact when I first saw it, I said that's a real picture.
Well it wasn't, it was a computer simulation.
But it shows under the tarpaulin an egg-shaped affair sticking out the back that's sort of silvery, and that's what the witness is told.
So, Witness to Roswell has that depiction in it.
Okay, now what about the bodies themselves?
You know, your witness, as you described it, doesn't actually sound like the ones when you do a search under Roswell.
A lot of times you get these, what look like You know, they sort of have fat faces and cheeks almost like humans, you know, these other kind of beings.
And they look more like, well, I guess it's the alien autopsy.
Oh, yes.
You know, that type of a kind of alien or small guy.
I mean, there seems to be a confusion as to whether, because what you seem to, or your witness seem to be describing, was what we call a classic Gray.
However, a lot of people have said that Roswell aliens were not classic grays.
And then I've also heard the contrary story to that.
So what is the consensus on the body shape?
The consensus, and it's remarkable, the people who did give us descriptions, they all matched.
It's this hair-shaped head, I'm sure you've seen that.
The pear-shaped head, the wide set eyes, slightly slanted, slightly slanted.
Not these wraparound things that you see in some of the books.
Two little holes in the front of the face, a little slit for a mouth, and two little holes in the ears.
About a 40-pound creature, very frail, Three and a half to four feet tall.
Very spindly arms that go down to about the knees.
Right.
And pretty much like the classic gray that you're talking about.
Right, exactly.
The thing in the alien autopsy, of course, was a hoax.
Okay, so that was a hoax.
So you can throw that out.
Right.
Okay.
Well, that gets into a whole other story.
And I can't, I'm not going to go there right now because it's too involved.
I think I'm, at some point, was supposed to have somebody on the show about that story.
But to get back to this, so you've got a gray, and do you have drawings from multiple witnesses that are in your books and pictures?
Yes.
We have a drawing in, geez, I'd have to look to see if it's in this book, that we usually put in all of our books from a fellow by the name of Leonard Stringfield.
He was a researcher in Cincinnati, Ohio, but he had a lot of friends at Wright-Patterson, including doctors who worked on the autopsy.
And he would make a drawing and submit it to the doctors and say, okay, is this what it looked like?
And the doctors would say, this is right, this is wrong.
And then he did that a couple times until he finally said, okay, this is what it looked like.
And we usually include that in our book.
And...
I know, it's certainly in Witness to Roswell, and it's certainly inside the Real Area 51 books.
In this book, we include the drawings of a witness who was actually an artist.
And it's in the last chapter, I believe.
So we put his drawing that we were able to recover.
It's in the last chapter of this book.
It's a head view and a side view of what he said the aliens look like.
But I'd have to check the book to see if we include the Leonard Stringfield drawing or not, which is pretty accurate because it's based on what the autopsy doctors at Wright-Patt had told him.
Okay, but you're describing something.
You have drawn...
You know, by an artist who is also a witness.
One of the children of Roswell?
Is that right?
He's dead now.
He's dead now.
He was not a child, but he was an artist.
And does his drawing agree with the conventional, what you're describing?
It's slightly different.
It's slightly different, but we thought we would include it because He guarded that with an intensity that was remarkable.
So when he passed away, we were able to secure it.
We thought, well, that would be good to put because it's a first-hand drawing, you know.
So it's never been seen before.
Okay, what do you mean by, I mean, what was his role?
Was he drawing something somebody described to him?
Or was this something he saw?
No, he drew it from what he said he saw.
At Roswell.
He was a Roswell witness.
Yes.
So he wasn't a child of Roswell.
He was actually one of the Roswell witnesses.
He died in 2001.
Okay, now, if I recall, there was a nurse that came forward not that long ago.
Are you familiar with that story, and did you include it in your recent book, or have you included it in one of your books?
And can you maybe talk a little bit about the nurse?
The whole book was about the nurse.
Okay.
Well, I remember when that book came out that I said, oh, my God, you know, because we we pretty much nobody's interviewed as many people as we have.
And we've covered every aspect of this case.
Certainly the medical people were top priority because that's where the bodies were taken first, to the hospital on the base.
So when this book came out, I have it here somewhere, but I forget the title, but it was about this nurse.
I said, this can't be true.
Because we know the names of every nurse that was there.
And this name didn't ring a bell.
And the story didn't track.
So I called up the author.
I think his last name was Spencer.
I could be wrong, but I think his last name is Spencer.
I called him up.
I said, this book is a fiction, isn't it?
And he said, yes.
It is.
It wasn't non-fiction, it was a fiction book.
And I got up to admit it.
Okay, but actually...
Sorry, I've been doing this for 10 years, so my memory for every little thing that's ever happened in Camelot is not perfect.
But I seem to remember a nurse contacting us that was still alive, and I don't know if maybe she never came forward.
I don't know.
So you know of some witnesses that are nurses?
Yes, I would say if you know the name of this nurse, I would certainly welcome it to check it out.
Because we're still looking.
We're still looking.
This one book, though, that I think maybe it's a different book than what you're thinking about.
Yeah, I don't think this person, I may be wrong, but I don't think the person that I'm talking about wrote a book.
And I don't know what became of that.
I know who you mean.
I know who you mean.
This person wasn't a nurse.
Her name was June Crane.
Maybe.
She worked at Wright-Patterson.
She was a stenographer.
Oh, all right.
And she's in the book.
She's in the book.
And she had a top-secret cue clearance.
And she talked about...
She was privy to all the conversations that were going on in this area of...
With the scientists who were working with the top secret material.
And she died in 1997 of cancer.
She was interviewed by a fellow named James Clarkson.
And her story is good.
Well, no.
See, if she died in 1997, she couldn't have contacted Camelot.
because this is 2016.
I'd love to talk.
I don't want to go down.
I don't remember the exact details and I'll have to research it myself.
I just remember that there was a woman who I believe came forward, a rather recent witness.
I don't remember that either.
I mean, you know, this is just random stuff that has come across our table over the years and I don't remember...
If it even went anywhere, sometimes someone will contact us and then disappear.
Now, in terms of Roswell, you have this burning desire to expose, is it to really tell the truth about this story because you ended up kind of getting enthralled by it?
I mean, it seems a little strange that you have not branched out, so to speak.
Oh, but I have.
You have.
Yes.
I'm working on another mystery.
It's non-UFO. It's non-paranormal.
But it's a mystery left to us from the 20th century that I want to get to the bottom of.
And it's one that requires a lot of research and time.
Roswell is what they call labor-intensive.
Unless you've done what we have done You wouldn't have gotten the story because there's so many threads to it, so many aspects to it.
One witness leads to two, two lead to four more.
And it's very labor-intensive to follow up on the witnesses.
I know myself, although I've been making phone calls, most of them are cold calls as we refer to them, I have to psych myself up During the day to say, okay, today I'm going to make some cold calls.
But I have to psych myself up to do it because I find it very...
Because you don't know what's going to happen.
They're either going to slam the phone down in your ear, call you a name, or ridicule you in some way or possibilities.
But every time we make a hit, it makes up for all of the abuse...
Right, sure.
That's why it's taken so long.
Okay, what about the very, I think it's quite a famous book, The Day After Roswell.
What about that book?
Well, it's written by a friend of mine, Bill Burns, and it's about a fellow who was a lieutenant colonel, Philip Corso, claimed to have been involved in The re-engineered, the back-engineering of Roswell material.
And I read the book, I think it came out in 1997.
I read it then, and that was before I knew Bill Burns.
Very well written.
It reads like a fiction book.
But what bothered me about it is that a non-fiction book like that, you have to have You have to cite your sources of information, which they don't do.
They don't cite any bibliography.
It's set up as a fiction book, but it's a nonfiction book.
And Philip Corso, some of the things in his story don't jive with what we know about the Roswell case.
Can you be specific about what Philip Corso might have said that you take issue with?
Any particular thing?
Yes.
He gave the date.
I mean, he was certain about the date that he had his look at the bodies and where he had to look at them.
Number one, the date.
They were still out in the field.
They still hadn't been recovered yet.
And he claimed to have seen them at a base in...
I forget the name of the base.
Well, we know they didn't go there.
They did not go to Kansas City.
I know it was in Kansas City.
The bodies went right to Wright-Patterson.
They did not stop off at...
There was a base in Kansas City.
I can't remember the name of it.
But right there, right up front, it's not right.
But, you know, ironically, that book is probably, I know it was on the New York Times bestseller list.
It may be the best-selling Roswell book of all time because we're always asked about it.
Yes.
Well, you know, what is our opinion of the Day After Roswell.
You know, I bought the book myself.
And I said, this is not jiving with what I know.
But nevertheless, it was in the New York Times bestseller list.
And, you know, we give our right arm for something like that.
Well, okay.
You say the author, Bill Burns, is a friend of yours.
So I take it you never met Corso?
Correct.
Correct.
But you know Bill Burns?
Yes.
Okay.
And you also know sort of the background of working for the military and certain secret clearances and this sort of thing.
Do you think that Bill Burns was actually put up to this for certain purposes?
No.
No.
I don't know how he hooked up with Corso, but Bill Burns is a prolific writer.
I mean, he's a writer.
He's written a number of books on various subjects.
He's got a PhD and a law degree, so he pretty much knows what he's doing, and he's a good writer.
And the book was written in 97, so...
Well, do you think he was deceived by Corso?
I mean, you know, I'm asking you, because you're saying there's some doubt about certain things Corso said.
Was Bill Burns taken in by Corso?
Is he just reporting it?
He worked it into a fiction type of book?
I mean, what's going on there?
Corso had this story, and I don't know if he was shopping it around, you know, I don't know.
But I'm sure that Bill Burns, you know, he saw it.
I mean, coming up on the 50th anniversary of the Roswell case in 97.
So it was like the meshing of, oh, boy, we got this great story.
This guy's a lieutenant currently in the Army.
He's got the bona fides.
Claims he was, you know, it was a match.
And...
I've seen Corso interviewed on television.
That's as much as close as I've gotten to him.
He comes across as a, you know, credible guy.
Right.
Yeah, I've seen that as well.
I've seen him interviewed.
I mean, he's passed on, obviously.
Yes.
Shortly after, I think it was 90, I think he died in 97 or 98, right after the book came out.
Okay, what about the notion that, you know, and just take this for what it's worth, I take it maybe you haven't seen a lot of Camelot interviews, but having a background in the Air Force with at least a type of a secret clearance, and then getting into, let's say, MUFON, getting involved with Alan J. Hynek, who was also involved to some degree in the cover-up, even though I've interviewed...
And Eller, who worked with him for years and also talks about how he sort of changed his tune as time went on.
Did you, you know, first of all, did you ever meet Hynek?
No, but Don Schmidt, my co-author, was a disciple of J. Allen Hynek, so he knew him personally, yes.
Okay.
So, I'm curious, what is your perspective?
You know, this sector that we're in is riddled with people that are working, you know, on the one hand, I guess, for their own purposes, and on the other hand, for various intelligence agencies.
Heineck felt that he had been used by the Air Force as a scientific consultant.
They never let him in on the real, what was really going on.
He felt deceived and betrayed to his dying day.
And as you know, in later life, he switched from being the Air Force's debunker type to being pro-UFO. Late in life, yes.
Okay, so are you taking this from Don Schmidt, having to relate this to you?
Yes.
Okay.
Now, you said you're still working with Don Schmidt.
Is that correct?
Yes.
So, it might be interesting to also interview him at some point.
You know, what is your role with regard to the book and Don Schmidt?
I can't remember if both your names are on the book or how that works.
Are you more instrumental in this particular book or how does your relationship work?
This particular book was Don Schmidt's idea.
All right.
He had a lot of stories that I didn't have.
Even from before we hooked up as a team, he had stories that I was unaware of.
Because when he first brought the subject up to me, I said, I don't know what you have in mind here, Don.
We've talked about the kids in other books.
He says, well, I've got a lot of material that's never published before.
I said, well, what can I do?
So we talked about it and we decided what I would do.
I wrote a number of chapters and Don wrote a number of chapters and that's the way we always do it.
So we each do Okay.
This book.
The others were together on from the get-go.
But this one was sort of, "Geez, what do you got in mind here, Don?" Because we had just finished doing a book in Spanish for the Spanish audience.
So I'm thinking, oh boy, I can take a rest now.
He says, no, we want to do another one.
And our publisher already likes the idea.
So here we are.
Well, in terms of the children of Roswell, you know, is there any effort by the children to come forward and do any kind of press conference or anything of that nature where they kind of expose the way they've been treated and so on and so forth?
I'm sure if they were asked, they would.
But the problem is logistics.
They had one of these deals you're talking about back in 1991 when they...
First-hand witnesses were still alive for the most part.
We had a fellow, the Prince of Liechtenstein, Hans Adam II, he was interested in Roswell, and he financed this confab in Washington, D.C. to bring as many witnesses to the subject to bear, and they videotaped them all.
And it's turned out to be almost a living history because most of them are dead now.
But that happened in 1991.
We had to have the Crown Prince of Liechtenstein fund it.
So to accomplish what you're suggesting, you have to have someone fund it, find a place, and bring people from all over the world.
And it's very, very difficult to bring off.
I would say it's almost impossible to bring as many people that would be involved together to do this.
Okay.
What about Clifford Stone?
He lives in Roswell.
I assume you've met him.
He's someone I've interviewed and has been on crash retrievals, he claims.
So have you met him?
Yes, Cliff is a very nice man.
I consider him a good friend.
He lost his son a few years ago, and we have great respect for Cliff.
I'm sure that my audience would like to know, have you ever met Bob Dean?
Yes.
Bob Dean is gone now.
Well, no, actually, he's not.
He's alive.
Bob Dean, yeah.
I'm sorry, I thought he passed away.
No, there was a rumor that went out about it.
Oh, I guess I heard the rumor then.
Yes, he was a master sergeant or something like that.
A man sergeant major.
Sergeant major, that's it, yes.
I met Bob.
I don't know him as a good friend, but I would certainly recognize him if he came in and sat down.
I would hope he would recognize me, but yes, I've met him.
Okay.
Now, you wrote a book, you said, that was called, I don't know, The Real Area 51, you called it, but it was about Wright Patterson.
Yes.
So, what kind of investigation did you do to create that book?
We interviewed a lot of people who were stationed at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base who saw things or who heard things from people that they knew very well starting with a base commander of Wright-Patterson in the mid-60s who was also there in 1947 and he was a general when we interviewed him In Riverside,
California, in a military officer's retirement village, General Arthur Exxon.
He told us that based on the people he talked to, he didn't see anything himself because even the base commander doesn't have a need to know everything or see everything, but the people he knew, the doctors and the Technicians, he said it was a...
What did he say?
He said, the pieces of wreckage, they were from space.
He said that was his lingo.
They were from space.
And he knew about, he had heard about the bodies.
They were not human, etc., etc., etc.
So he was one of the key witnesses.
We interviewed him in 2001, and I think he passed away in 2005.
But we interviewed other people who actually maintained the elevators of the underground vaults that saw the bodies in these cryogenic capsules that they would open.
You know, there's this little body with a big head.
Stuff like that.
So we have a lot of witnesses from Wright-Patterson.
We have witnesses that were on the aircraft that flew the bodies of the wreckage to Wright-Patterson.
And so we said, let's do a book about Wright-Patterson.
Because, you know, Roswell, the name Roswell is known around the world.
So is the term Area 51 is known around the world.
And both terms, when someone hears it, they think of aliens.
They think of aliens.
And our publisher came up with the title Inside the Real Area 51 because, and they were correct about this, that when somebody sees Area 51, they think of mystery and cover-ups and aliens and things like that.
So that was the publisher's idea.
And that book has been published not only in English, but in Spanish, Chinese, Japanese, and German.
Okay.
Are you familiar with a guy named Robert Collins?
Yes.
Okay, and he considers himself something, I think, of an expert on Wright-Patterson.
I know I wrote a book.
I forget the book's name, but I read it quite a long time ago.
He's kind of an interesting guy.
I don't agree with some of his positions that he takes.
But...
You know, he's certainly still in the game, I guess you might say.
He was a captain, and he was stationed at Wright-Patterson in the Foreign Technology Division, which is where all this stuff went.
Okay.
So he wrote a book, and I forget the title of it, so help me, I can't remember.
I think I'm The older I get, I start forgetting things.
And I can't remember the title of his book.
Right.
But we cite him in our Area 51 book several times.
Okay.
Because he had stories also of these underground storage facilities.
A lot of Wright Patterson is underground.
Okay.
And so we do cite his book himself.
In fact, we had to ask him permission to cite his book.
Okay.
Okay.
You know, I thought just citing their book, right, I thought would be enough, but he wanted more permission than that.
Okay.
But you're right.
He's one of the Wright-Pattersonites.
Now, let's see.
I'm looking through the chat.
I know we've been going for a while, so I told you we'd go for about an hour and a half, and then we'd start to see if there was any questions in the chat.
Whatever.
If you don't mind, I'll look in the chat and see what they've got and if there's any questions here.
And we won't keep you too much longer.
And I appreciate all your time.
And this is, of course, very fascinating.
And I'm going to encourage everyone to go out and buy your book and certainly support the children of Roswell because they have, well, certainly given some kind of portion, if not all of their lives, to This story and had their lives interfered with in many ways, it would appear.
So, let's see.
Someone wants to know if you know there were two crashes in Roswell, one in July and the other in August.
I do not know of anything other than the July crash.
I'm not aware of another one.
No one's ever talked about it.
Okay, I have heard this.
I think this also might be in my other interview as well.
Let me see.
Someone wants to know...
Someone was asking about the picture drawn in your book.
Is there a link to the picture drawn by the artist in The Children of Roswell?
No, apparently it's in your book, right?
So it's not published on the internet.
It's in the book.
I can, what I will do is when the show is over, I will take the picture and link it, put it in our website.
Alright.
I'll give you the website link and then you could go, it will be in the gallery, the photo gallery.
Alright.
So I will put that picture in our photo gallery.
Fair enough.
Okay, that's very kind of you.
And we'll try to include that then on the screen here with your permission.
Is that okay if I show a picture of that on the screen and show the link as well?
Do you want to give the name of your website while we're at it?
I will email you the picture.
I have your email address.
I will give you the picture in an email.
You can put it up.
Excellent.
What is your website address?
It's www.roswellinvestigator.com.
It's all one word, www.roswellinvestigator.com.
Our book can be purchased at Barnes& Noble.
It's our hard copy distributor.
You can also get it at amazon.com or barnesandnoble.com.
Online, you can get it in hard copy, Kindle, e-book, audio, and any other...
Any other way they make them these days.
Alright, great.
Someone here wants to know, I guess, I'm not sure about the question, but it says something about, did any of the children experience contact when holding the material?
You know, this material, or did they mention the energy around it?
Someone mentioned that...
There are two things that have been mentioned.
One that when you apply electricity to it, it glows.
Someone else mentioned that they took some of it to this company in Ohio.
I think Columbus, Ohio.
I think Columbus, Ohio.
Because they have this huge Smelter there, this company that got the highest degrees of heat with the smelter of any facility we had in the nation.
And they took some of this metal there to see what the high, and it didn't even get hot.
They put it up to the, like, I don't know how many thousand degrees, but it didn't even get hot.
Okay.
So that's quite interesting.
And we got that from a first-hand witness.
Okay.
I'm looking to see if there's any other questions.
Again, if you put your questions in all caps, it's a lot easier for me to find them in the midst of the chat.
Someone...
I'm not sure what they're asking.
Something about a full Lichtenstein name?
Does that make sense?
Oh, yeah.
The...
Prince Hans Adam of Lichtenstein.
Oh.
Okay.
Yeah, that was the fellow in 1990 who funded the conference, I'll call it a conference, or CONFAB, in Washington, D.C., to bring in all of the key witnesses known at that time to take their videotape statements.
And they put it into a cassette.
And it's called Recollections of Roswell.
And I always cite it in all of our books because some of those, well, all of those witnesses are dead now.
But their stories, they told them on air in that Recollections of Roswell cassette.
And it was what came from that confab in 1991.
And we always cite it in our books when we quote those people.
Okay, I'm not seeing a lot of questions here, so I'll wait a moment or two and see if any others crop up.
In the meantime, I am curious, with your long experience in this area, have you not experienced any, let's say, have you been visited by men in black?
Have you been taken off the trail purposely?
Have you been shot at or anything of this nature?
No.
I'm often asked that question and no one has visited me late at night or wearing dark suits or have bumped into me on the street.
The only thing that I've noticed is whenever I talk to Don Schmidt on the telephone, there are noises on the phone.
I hear noises and I'll say, is that you, Don?
And he'll say, no, it's not me.
And so I And so what I usually do is I say, okay, in case you're listening, I can be bought, and my price today is, and I'll give a number, but it will go up tomorrow, but no one's ever taken me up on that.
Okay.
All right.
That's interesting.
Yeah.
Let's see.
What about the kids that are still alive and have experienced threats, etc., in their youth?
Have they also come to you recently?
In other words, you get a litany of these things that go on And continue to go on, or is it just a one-time deal that they've been threatened and that was the end of it?
Oh, that's a good question.
We do have a number of cases where it's obvious that the threats to their parents, usually it's a military person, they have followed them over the years.
Periodic visits by men in dark suits that The child says, well, I asked my dad, the leader, who was that?
Oh, those are some guys just checking up on me.
So we know that went on over time.
We have also the case of a fellow, this is the grandson of the sheriff of Chavez County in Roswell, who was really worked over by the military.
They destroyed him They used him first to deliver death threats, and then they delivered a death threat to him and his family, if he ever talked about what he did.
And it destroyed him.
And he died young.
And we get this from his grandson.
The grandson said a few years after that he was in high school, And he stayed sometime with the Wilcox's.
That was George Wilcox and his wife, Inez Wilcox.
He would stay with the Wilcox's during the summer and he said, it was obvious to me that he was paranoid, totally paranoid by this time.
A car would go by outside and he'd jump up, run to the window and look out like he was scared somebody was going to do something following him.
Total paranoia.
Well, soon after that, The sheriff attacked his wife, and then they put him into a mental ward in a hospital, and he died a few months later.
And his wife, Inez, died a few years later, but she told the grandchildren that she believed the Air Force had done something to him more than just the threats.
She said they did something to him.
They either gave him some sort of shot or something, That caused the early demise of her husband.
And we got this from the grandchildren.
And the grandson told me, he said, no one's ever interviewed me before we interviewed him for this book.
He said, it was clear to me, and I was just like in high school, the guy was totally gone.
Paranoid.
And they never talked about the case, but this guy was just paranoid.
Right.
Well, sounds like with good reason.
So, in terms of, you said you've done kind of what would appear to be sort of a market research, and I'm wondering if you were able to figure out if there are any, you know, did you, I don't know how much research you did in terms of comparing and contrasting each witness, each child.
Or whatever.
But did you come across things like incidents of cancer, incidents of early death?
Have you done any statistical analysis?
It was in our face.
We didn't have to do research.
It was in our face.
Which was what?
Cancer.
Really?
High incidence of cancer in Roswell.
And one of the children of Roswell, the daughter of the founder of Of the International UFO Museum there.
The daughter, Julie Schuster.
Her father was the public information officer in 1947 at the Roswell Base.
He delivered the press releases to the local media.
His name was Walter Howe.
Walter Howe.
Fine gentleman.
His daughter, Julie, died last year From cancer, brain cancer.
She had suffered with it for years, and she finally passed away last year.
The other incidents of cancer, just too many incidents of it to chalk up to naturally occurring.
Okay, so was it your opinion that the incidence of cancer comes from...
I mean, is this targeted cancer?
Is this because of something in the land or the water?
Do you have a thought about, or did you have a thought about that?
You would have to consider that it had something to do with the event.
Just the juxtaposition of the event and these onsets of cancer in the town of Roswell.
You would have to consider it.
There's one other consideration, however, is that the 509th Bomb Group, which was that Air Corps group at Roswell, the air base, the 509th Bomb Group, that was the group that ended World War II by dropping two atomic bombs on Japan to end the war.
After the war, they relocated or redeployed to Roswell.
So they had atomic weapons at the base because their mission, they're still in existence today at an air base in Missouri, the 509th Bomb Group.
Their mission today, their mission in 1947 was the same as it was in World War II, is in time of war to drop atomic weapons, bombs.
So you had that base south of town With atomic weapons.
Was that the cause?
Was it the event?
Or one other consideration that most people don't know about is that in 1946 they had this big atomic bomb test in the Pacific called Operation Crossroads.
And it involved again the 509th Bomb Group from Roswell.
And what they did Over the course of a week, they dropped two atomic bombs on this little atoll, Bikini Atoll, in the Pacific.
They had all these ships around it, all these ships.
They wanted to see what the effect of an atomic bomb would have on these ships.
Would they sink?
What would happen?
So, I am told by one of the witnesses, he's dead now, that some of that hazardous material from Bikini Atoll Was brought back to the Roswell base and buried along the fence line at the south.
He showed me where it was buried.
And I've mentioned this once or twice, that somebody ought to take a Geiger counter, at least follow up on that to see if some of that material is really there.
Because he showed me where they buried it because he was part of it.
Of course, he died of cancer, too.
Okay, well, what about, you know, I don't know, dying young?
Like, in other words, regardless of the means of death, is there any statistic that says that the children of Roswell or the Roswell witnesses themselves have all died, you know, early deaths or any of that stuff?
No, nothing significant.
There was a Dan Richards...
Had an automobile accident.
One woman committed suicide.
We have several stories of airmen being shot, but we have not been able to confirm those.
Like, airmen on the base, one allegedly just couldn't take the idea of aliens, so he went to a secluded part of the base and put a gun to his head and killed himself.
Another airman was allegedly killed Shot and killed because he went into a no-go zone.
His aircraft was a B-29.
It was getting ready to take off and he was late.
So he ran across an area where he wasn't supposed to go and he shot and killed him.
So indicating that tensions were high there.
So stories like that.
But we have not been able to find secondary witnesses for those.
Okay, what about...
Did you ever hear that Einstein was present at Roswell?
Not Einstein, but Charles Lindbergh, we heard, was there.
We heard that there were a number of doctors from other bases flying in and out.
Just to see the bodies.
A number of stories like that.
And what about presidents?
Any presidents?
Early on there was this thought that Harry Truman might have gone there.
But we know that he didn't.
He did send a representative though.
We even have his name somewhere from a witness who saw him.
It was related to him.
But Truman didn't get there.
What's interesting is President Reagan, when he was running for re-election, he stopped in Roswell to give a speech.
And he gave it, not in town, but on the base in front of the hangar where all this wreckage and bodies were taken.
Right in front of the hangar, that's where he gave his speech.
And we suspect that Reagan knew about it.
Because he gave that speech at the UN. Yes.
What if we were all confronted by an alien power off the planet?
So I'm thinking this guy knows.
This guy knows.
Well, we have several anecdotes about Reagan in that regard.
And it is said that Nancy Reagan as well was...
Well aware of the ETs, in fact, that they were contacted.
I have a story from Jordan Maxwell, in fact, in that regard.
So I think I'm going to just take another look over here in case there's anything else.
Some people, someone here is asking for what it's worth.
Saying that you're something of a debunker.
Do you feel that you are?
A debunker?
Of what?
I don't know.
That's how they're referring to you.
I'm not sure what they have in mind.
It's not clear to me what...
They probably...
They might be referring to the What we consider as false stories regarding Roswell.
I mean, we feel we're pretty solid in our knowledge of the case.
Right.
And when we know someone was a hoaxer or a fabricator, well, what are we supposed to do?
Say that they weren't?
So when someone falls outside the lines of what really happened, They're either mistaken or they're cooking something up.
And so, like for instance, Chuck Wade and Art Campbell, we don't believe in that site that they're working had anything to do with Roswell.
Anything.
Okay.
I do think that there was, now I'm remembering that Corona was one of the sites.
Well, Corona is actually involved in the Roswell case.
The first explosion where we think it was a lightning strike that blew up the craft happened closer to Corona than to Roswell.
The rancher who found all the wreckage was from Corona.
He went to Corona to find out from locals there what he should do.
And the reason it's called the Roswell incident and not the Corona incident is because the The outfit that did all the recovery, the 509th Bomb Group, was stationed at Roswell.
And the headline that went around the world in the newspaper story came from the Roswell Daily Record.
And it said, Roswell Army Airfield captures flying saucer, and that's a term they used in Roswell region.
And that's why it's referred to as the Roswell Army.
Okay.
It gets complicated.
Well, absolutely.
It always does in these kinds of stories.
I am curious, though, you know, you're saying you're investigating a new subject now, but you went into Wright-Patterson, but you got involved in investigating that story because it was related, I take it, to the material from Roswell that went there.
MS.
But you don't seem to have branched out, I meant, in terms of other UFO stories, other UFO investigations.
Is there a reason for that?
You know why?
It's because this story is so complicated and multifaceted.
You can't see the rest of my office here.
It's piled high with everything is Roswell.
Everything is Roswell or the other subject I'm working on.
But it's so multifaceted and complicated and labor intensive.
It really required to get to the bottom of it what Don Schmidt and I have done is just to devote our primary focus on this case.
Okay.
I mean, there are others.
The Ramseys have devoted to Aztec.
They've researched.
We just don't have time to do that.
Well, that's great that you've dedicated yourselves to really drawing out this case and looking into everything.
So, I'm trying to see if there's any last-minute questions here that anyone might have.
It doesn't appear that...
I don't see anything here.
I think I've got them all.
Hold on one second.
It's not that easy to scroll down, so I'm trying to get this to...
I don't want to miss anything.
Uh, okay.
I really don't see anything else here.
So, okay.
Well then, I want to thank you very much for coming on the show.
Great job and really fascinating subject, I have to say.
I think there's, you know, endless questions that can be asked and obviously we've got to read your books to really delve in deep here.
But thank you for your dedication to this subject and all the work you've done over the years and also to your partner, Don Schmidt, obviously.
And...
And, you know, it'd be great to have you back sometime if you would like to come back and talk about any of the other books, because I know we kind of concentrated in a certain area.
If there's a reason to come forward, let me know.
Yes, and if you come up with any names that you remember that have anything to do with Roswell, certainly give me a shout.
I certainly will.
I will look over the old history and see if I can find anything.
Yeah, and Don Schmidt's father just died, so that's why he's not with us today.
So you might consider having him on.
Excellent, yes.
Well, please do extend my invitation to him and our condolences to his father as well.
I will.
I will.
All right.
My pleasure in being on your show.
Thank you.
We're still on it.
Excellent.
All right.
Well, thanks very much again.
And I'm going to close down with you and just make a few announcements and run the credits here.
So thanks again.
Okay.
My pleasure.
All right.
Take care.
Bye-bye.
Bye.
Okay, everyone.
Thanks for listening.
And it's very interesting to...
To go over all of this material from this kind of long distance away, having not been part of this investigation per se.
Now I'm going to put something here on the, just as a wrap up here.
I'm going to put the credits on in a minute, but I just want to use this opportunity if I can possibly switch this camera.
Yeah, so we are just announcing that we're going to have an Awake and Aware conference in the UK, and it's going to be on July 9th and 10th, and I just want to let you know all the different speakers that we're going to have.
I will say that a couple of the speakers are still tentative, but right now we've got Peter Padgett, who's the author of UFO Triangle, among other books, and he is a He spoke at a small venue here in the UK and he was filmed by Miles Johnston.
We've also got Richard Alan Miller, who's a very well-known person.
He's a physicist and really a magician by trade, you might call it, and very knowledgeable.
He was training what are, in essence, Navy SEALs on sci-tech abilities and He is someone who does write books about the subject and he's training people in the seminars.
So he'll be speaking.
And Miles Johnston, of course, is a very well-known UFO investigator and personality.
He's been on the BBC as well as other major broadcasts in Britain and is a well-known investigator of what's called Black Goo and...
And many other subjects.
He's a very dedicated researcher and fascinating guy with a lot of information and has been investigating all of this for years.
David Griffin, fascinating guy, very, very smart researcher, a member of the ExoPolitics, I believe, group in UK. And he has done a lot of investigation as well into the black goo.
And artificial intelligence and the link-ups there.
And we've got Andy Lloyd, who is, again, an amazing guy.
And he has written a book called Dark Star.
His concentration is all about Planet X or an incoming body, even a mini solar system, as some call it, with a brown dwarf and planets circulating it that may be coming into our system at this time.
He's going to be talking about all of that.
And we've got Harold Kotz-Vella, who specializes, again, in artificial intelligence, black goo, and other subjects related to that.
So he is a tentative, and we're hoping that he will be confirmed shortly.
We have at least one other possible speaker.
Obviously, myself, I'll be speaking today.
There about Camelot Matters and all the witness testimony and putting the big picture together as usual, as well as Kundalini activation and enlightenment.
So I'll be talking about that.
It's a two-day conference.
Again, it's in Watford, England, and it's on July 9th and 10th.
I also want to say that we're going to be doing a conference The following weekend, a smaller conference at what appears to be Passing Clouds in London.
It's a venue that is dedicated to music, and it's on the east end of London.
I've spoken there before.
Sean David Morton and myself spoke there a couple years ago to a sellout crowd, so it's a lot of fun.
And I'm hoping that Richard Allen Miller is going to be able to join me there.
We are still looking for basically money...
To make it possible for Richard Allen Miller to make this trip.
We don't do these speaking engagements to make money.
We actually do them to make enough money to go to pay our hotels and then flights.
And that's pretty much all that comes in.
But if you are able to offer a place for Richard Allen Miller to stay in the UK for a couple of weeks during these events that we want to put on, In the UK, please do contact me.
The tickets are going to go on sale very shortly for the Watford Awaken Aware UK event.
So I just wanted to advertise that here and let everyone know.
On top of it, we are going to be speaking in, it looks like we're setting up another venue that someone has come forward in.
Malta and we're also going to do a tour of Malta and the ancient sites.
There are fabulous sites in Malta and I've made a video, in case you don't know that, along quite a while ago.
It's on Project Camelot, my Jag Bodhi, which is my main YouTube channel and you can watch the video there and learn about what a fabulous place Malta is and a lot about the Ancient sites that Mark Richards says are built by the ET races.
So we will do a small tour there.
And if you're interested, you should write to me at Carrie at Project Camelot dot TV. And I'll be doing a short video talking about this and promoting this event in again in Malta that's going to come up on July 2nd.
So this is prior to this Awaken Aware UK. Again, we're trying to get Richard Alan Miller to join me there.
He has difficulty because he doesn't have any money to work with up front.
He doesn't have credit cards that he can really charge at this time.
And so we're really looking for someone to help sponsor him.
That's really what we need.
But if you're interested, do let us know.
And we are also planning an event in Prague.
That should be happening between July 21st and 24th.
So Prague, Czechoslovakia, if you're in that area and you're able to get involved in helping with the venue, helping with set up places for us to stay or any of that sort of thing and help publicize, that is again going to be at the end of July.
So we're trying to do a number of events during the month of July And your help would be very much appreciated.
So that's what's happening and stay tuned to projectcamelotportal.com.
Tomorrow night I'm going to be interviewing a very interesting woman.
Her name is Kathy Morgan and she has a family I guess that has been sort of targeted by MKUltra I believe and certainly herself.
She's going to be talking about that.
She became a researcher Because of her own exposure and that should be a fascinating discussion.
That's going to be tomorrow and that's 12 noon Pacific time and in the UK that will be 8pm at night and so you can figure out the rest of the times from there.
All of this information is on my website at projectcamelotportal.com So thanks for listening and have a great night.
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