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Nov. 16, 2015 - Project Camelot

02:04:48

JOHN EDMONDS INTERVIEW TWO - STARDUST RANCH

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	Thank you.
	Thank you.
	We're just going to be getting as much information here as we can.
	Obviously, I did a first interview with him, as everyone or most people will know, and if you're watching this and you don't know that, that will be, it is on my YouTube channel.
	Here we are and we want to thank Tommy Hawksblood as being the facilitator of the person who made this all possible.
	We are here in a room where there is a vortex.
	I'm a sensitive.
	I can feel vortexes.
	I can tell you exactly where it is in the room.
	And it starts affecting my third eye, my crown chakra, and the rest of the chakras, obviously.
	And you're very aware of it.
	Yeah.
	I mean, I've actually been doing a radio show with my brother.
	And we were on Skype video, and literally it was in this room here, but he could see with a camera into this area.
	And he said, John, two grays just came through behind you.
	Turn around.
	And I'm like, no way.
	And I turned around, and for just the briefest couple of seconds, you could see two of them literally come through.
	And then they just disappeared someplace.
	So I had no idea where they went, but definitely the gate is...
	Here, our vortex or whatever you want to call it.
	That's right.
	So bear with us as we're going to be shooting a lot.
	We're going to be talking a lot and we've got some evidence and we want to hear about that and then we want to shoot the evidence as much as we can and at the same time I understand there's some new footage so maybe we can address that right from the beginning here that you've told us about that came from I guess last night Night before.
	Night before last.
	We've been doing this for the last few days.
	I'm starting to lose track of time.
	I can hear you.
	Yeah, I mean, that's the nature of what goes on here.
	Yeah, I mean, this whole sector is just rife with time travel, missing time, weird anomalies.
	We were on the way here.
	Let me just say that we drove right by the place.
	Our GPS told us we weren't here yet, so we thought it was down the road about another three miles.
	And ended up really in the middle of nowhere and had to call John and say, we're here, we're on your road, but we can't find your place.
	And so we were directed back here.
	He's a caretaker for many wounded animals, horses specifically, but also dogs and possibly other animals.
	It's on a case-by-case basis.
	I have a scarlet macaw that literally a lady called me and said, I have a bird for you.
	And she was up north near Sedona.
	And I said, well, what kind of bird is it?
	And she says, it's the bird you're supposed to have.
	And I said, well, I'm not going to drive all the way up there unless you tell me what it is.
	And she said, well, it's a scarlet macaw.
	And I said, and you're just going to give me this egg?
	And she said, yeah, you're supposed to have it.
	So my wife and I, we drove up there, we got the egg, and we incubated it and hatched it.
	Sure enough, it was a scarlet macaw.
	And I've had her ever since.
	Wow, since birth.
	That was 27 years later.
	That's incredible.
	Yeah, she's a beautiful bird.
	She's got an awful vocabulary.
	She has lots of nasty things.
	And I didn't teach her.
	I'm very careful not to swear around her because I don't want it coming back on me.
	But she does it anyway.
	She sounds like a biker.
	Well, if we can get a shot of her, we'll do that.
	Okay, so at this moment, you had a couple nights ago with Tommy Hawksblood, who's visiting, and we're very happy.
	I want to thank the supporters of Who made it possible for Tommy to fly over here from Hawaii.
	He's been trying to get here, from what I understand, for quite a while.
	Three years.
	And so it's a blessing because he is a dedicated UFO researcher and contactee himself.
	Lives in Hawaii and they have formed a friendship.
	And it was only right that he be here and that he was able to fulfill his...
	Well, something I'd like to say on behalf of that, and that is that literally Tommy contacted me, he kind of cold called me three years ago, and befriended us.
	And I don't think there's been too many days since then that he hasn't called me once or twice a day.
	And help me to decide to literally come out and tell this story.
	Because I had just gotten to the point where I thought this was a lost cause.
	I thought it was just something that was so evil and so dark and so miserable that I was ashamed of it and I didn't really want to talk about it.
	And Tommy, over all this time, has kind of kept prodding me gently saying, John, the world needs to know what you know.
	And this is important.
	And, you know, you make a big deal about, you know, helping animals and, you know, you went to school to become a counselor and a therapist and, you know, you hold a master's degree and 25 years of experience doing this.
	Why aren't you following what you preach?
	And I kept saying to myself, you know, I hate to say it, but he's right.
	And gradually, it was Tommy that changed my mind.
	So, if anybody needs to be thanked, it's Tommy.
	Okay, and we're all here listening to that.
	So, to get back to this thing, the other night, like two nights ago, you and Tommy Hawksblood were here on the premises, and tell me where you were and what happened.
	Let's go through that scenario, just because you got some amazing footage.
	Okay, so at this point...
	You had an experience two nights ago.
	It was filmed, but you saw the film after it was done.
	I saw photographs on a device.
	And the interesting thing about it, one, it's daylight.
	It's full daylight.
	So we're not talking about just some spooky photograph in dingy light.
	We're talking clearly visible, full frame, the face of a gray.
	And it wasn't a little gray.
	It was a full-size one.
	Okay.
	In several frames.
	Mm-hmm.
	So, I mean, you know...
	And did Tommy Hawksblood, who was with you at the time, did he see this as well?
	I didn't...
	Okay, first of all, I've got to qualify something.
	I did not see it.
	I saw the person who filmed it.
	And then she told me about it and showed me the photos afterwards.
	Right.
	Okay, but I didn't actually see the gray myself.
	You didn't see the gray.
	But it was exactly the same kind of gray that we've had here so many times before.
	Okay.
	So, but did both of you see the photos?
	Tommy has not seen them.
	Oh, he didn't.
	I saw them and my wife saw them.
	All right, so at this moment, how did the situation happen, though, two nights ago?
	Well, I mean...
	They arrived at the property in a truck and they said they had lots of gear and they introduced themselves and Tommy introduced them and we started just standing around sharing stories and they're telling me what they wanted to do and then after that we began walking around the property.
	They took pictures of the horses.
	Brought out a laser, a military-grade laser, and they had equipment that I'm not even aware of.
	I don't even know what kind of equipment it was.
	It was like Ghostbusters or something.
	That's really funny, because on the way here, we made a joke about that.
	Really?
	Yeah, and I never make a joke about that, because it's just not in my normal way.
	They had some very, very expensive-looking, very sophisticated-looking gear.
	Okay, so...
	It's possible that this group has military connections of some kind?
	I don't think so.
	I just...
	That caliber of gear.
	Just good equipment.
	Just really good stuff.
	Interesting.
	Okay.
	And so they were the ones who shot the footage.
	Right.
	Alright.
	And what time of day was this?
	Probably about 5.30 in the afternoon.
	Okay.
	And what can you...
	Just before it started getting dark.
	Can you paint the picture for us?
	In other words...
	Were you taking a walk?
	Were you in the house?
	Actually, I was feeding horses, and I was all the way on the back of the property.
	And, Tommy, I think, Tommy, you were up front, right?
	Did you actually see?
	I was dealing with things I was looking at.
	She was seeing different things.
	Okay.
	They just had gear out, and I thought they were just setting up their gear and kind of prepping for what they wanted to do.
	And then I didn't even hear about any of it right away.
	I mean, it wasn't until we were back in the house and we were kind of done for the night.
	And the next thing I know, she's like, I want you to see these pictures.
	And I'm like, okay.
	And I wasn't expecting anything.
	I had no idea what she was going to show me.
	I was flabbergasted.
	She asked everybody to leave except for my wife and for myself, and then she brought it up on the device, an electronic device, like an iPad, and she showed it to me, and I was just dumbfounded.
	Here was this gray looking, I mean, almost full frame in the picture, and you could see the big black eyes, and you could see they were compound black eyes, and to me that's a huge telltale thing.
	Because if you look at one of these grays up close, they look like they have fly eyes.
	I mean, they're compound eyes.
	They're not typically, you know, a lot of times you see pictures on the internet and things like that, and they never show that they're compound eyes.
	Right.
	To me, that's a telltale sign.
	That's the difference between somebody making something up and somebody actually showing somebody the real thing.
	Okay.
	So you came back in the house.
	So the gray was filmed outside?
	Yes, out front.
	Okay.
	I mean...
	Probably 80 feet from the street.
	And at the time when it was filmed, were you guys near the people filming?
	I was all the way on the back of the property.
	They were on their own.
	So they were on their own when they filmed this.
	I was out feeding the horses in the back.
	Very interesting.
	And did they never shout and say, come on out, you guys, have we got something going on?
	Nothing like that?
	Didn't act like anything big was happening.
	Now, you've had a lot of filmmakers here.
	A few.
	Yeah, and you've had a lot of UFO researchers, certainly.
	Absolutely.
	Can I ask you, have other people here filmed greys that you know of?
	No.
	No?
	Not that I'm aware of.
	All right.
	I mean...
	Have you ever filmed a grey?
	No.
	No.
	Why is that?
	Is it because you've tried and failed, or did you just never try?
	No, I've always...
	The only time that I have ever...
	I've seen the Greys was when they were trying to do something bad.
	And so I was in the process of fighting with them.
	I mean, other than hand-to-hand combat with them over 18, 19 years here, that's all I've ever had contact with them.
	They don't speak to me.
	They don't use telepathy.
	They don't do anything.
	They just do bad things to animals.
	They do bad things to people.
	And, you know, I mean, they're like, they're just little assholes.
	Okay, now, the people that were here two nights ago, is there anything else, just so we wrap that event up, was there anything else that went on here that you or Tommy experienced during that day and then into the night that would have been kind of part and parcel of that experience?
	Well, later on, after the sun went down and we were continuing to walk with these people through the property, We got out to the back five acres where there's horses out there and again they brought out this laser device and they were kind of scanning across the property with it and all of a sudden it looked like there was Oh,
	that laser hit it, it literally dropped something and disappeared.
	And we went over to see what it was and this artifact. - Oh my God, you're kidding.
	No, it was just sitting there on the ground.
	Wow.
	And the person who did this picked it up and brought it over to me and said, look at what I found.
	And indeed, this is it.
	And there's a lot of weird things about this because, number one, it's like probably half a pound of river rock.
	And river rock isn't common here because we don't have a river.
	Okay.
	So, you know, that in its own right is kind of weird.
	It's got all the smooth edges.
	And then on top of that it has this intricate design cut in it.
	Yeah.
	And it's not even the same on both sides.
	It's one size larger than the design on the other.
	And I started looking at it, and I'm like, what is this?
	It looks almost like it was cut with a laser or some kind of, you know, very...
	It's almost like a craftsman type of thing.
	I mean, it's intricate, and yet it's very well done.
	Can I try to hold it?
	Sure, sure.
	Yeah, it's bizarre.
	You can actually see through it.
	So it's...
	I don't...
	I'm trying to see.
	They didn't actually make it hollow.
	They just...
	It's almost like this thing went all the way through.
	Right.
	It's completely...
	I don't even know if we have a tool.
	If people have a tool.
	You know, the humans, the mainstream.
	Right.
	Has a tool that can do something like that.
	Exactly.
	Never seen anything like that.
	It's like an art object.
	Really.
	Like it was a gift.
	Well, the thing that's interesting is that we know that there is a gate on the back of the property.
	We know where it is.
	And about every 72 days, it seems to open.
	And at that point, there's massive sightings out there.
	Now, we're not exactly sure how the calendar works or why it works that way.
	But...
	It gets a lot of action.
	And the thing that's interesting is that if you were to just stand there and look at it when it's open, it looks like that.
	Really?
	So in a sense, it was as if they were saying, you know, this is a marker on this property to show that that's what it's for.
	Right.
	You know, it's an indicator.
	Have you ever tried to film, again, the gate itself?
	No.
	No, and I'll tell you, there's been a lot of weird emotional stuff for me associated with this property because I didn't buy it because of the fact that I wanted a freak show.
	I bought it because I wanted to, you know, raise horses.
	And I wanted to be out in the country, away from Phoenix, away from all the hustle and the bustle.
	I wanted to enjoy the old Arizona.
	You know, and I couldn't afford to buy something that was over on the east side.
	And so I thought, well, you know, we got mountains right across the street.
	We're surrounded by mountains.
	This is just as good as anything on the east side, you know, and it's very inexpensive.
	So I thought this is a great compromise.
	I'll buy this place.
	And from the very first day that we moved in, all the weirdness started.
	And it's never stopped.
	And it's just one example after another, on top of another, on top of another.
	You know, it doesn't matter how often you say stop or, you know, no more.
	It just keeps happening.
	It's kind of like a runaway horror show.
	Okay, but...
	This thing about filming, is it because you're, I mean, you know, everyone wants you to take pictures, I'm sure.
	It's more than that.
	I just, you know, I saved from the time I was eight years old on to buy a horse ranch.
	And then when I'd buy a horse ranch, I'd buy the alien hellhole.
	All right.
	Disappointment is just not a good word to describe how I felt.
	Right.
	I just felt like I had absolutely...
	I might as well have gone to the track and lost the money or something.
	Sure.
	That's how disappointing it was.
	And when you have horses and you have all your money invested in one property...
	You're not a rich man.
	It's not like you can just say, well, I screwed up.
	I'll just dump it and go get another one.
	And I felt like I had a moral conviction.
	I felt like I had an absolute commitment to the horses.
	They'd already gone through.
	A lot of these horses had been abandoned in the desert.
	And that's how I found them.
	So they'd already been absolutely treated like garbage, and I didn't want to just do that to them again.
	Okay, but how does that relate to whether you film these...
	Because the more angry I got about the whole thing, the more I just felt ashamed that I'd made such a dumb mistake by buying this place.
	And the more I felt that way, the more I didn't want anybody else to know.
	All right, but once people...
	I mean, how long have people been coming out here, can you say?
	Probably since 97 or 98.
	Alright, so that's a while.
	I don't know how often.
	Well, I mean, I've filmed a lot of stuff myself.
	Did you?
	But, I mean, the stuff I've filmed is all the ships.
	You know, all the orbs and all the things we see in the south side of the sky over there.
	But you never caught anything.
	I mean, I don't know.
	You said you had a craft land outside here.
	Right?
	Well, it didn't land.
	Across the street.
	Yeah.
	Well, yeah, but it didn't land.
	Hovering.
	It was hovering.
	Yeah.
	And did you film that?
	No.
	I mean, it's not like I know they're going to happen.
	Sure.
	And I don't want to just walk around with a camera around my neck.
	All right.
	All right.
	Fair enough.
	I just...
	It's interesting.
	There's a lot of reasons why somebody picks up a camera and someone else doesn't.
	I'm fine with taking pictures, but I never wanted to be part of this phenomena.
	I feel like I've been captive.
	I feel like I've been kidnapped against my will.
	I feel like this whole thing has been done to me, not shared with me.
	I feel like they're invading my space.
	They have no business being here.
	But in a sense, if you want...
	Payback might be the wrong way of putting it, but if you want payback, if you want to get your own validation, then capturing them...
	That's why I changed my mind.
	But that's happened since Tommy.
	Tommy was the one that just kept saying, John, if you want to get the hell off this place, you're going to have to prove to people that what you're saying is true.
	And I'm like, okay, I guess that makes sense.
	But at the same time, I hate the fact that my name is associated with all this.
	I'm ashamed of it.
	Well, let me just say, though, I appreciate that, and I know you're saying this.
	I mean, I'm a psychiatric counselor.
	I'm a therapist.
	The worst thing you could possibly be and have to talk about aliens being at your house.
	I mean, that's the best way I can think of to lose any kind of credibility professionally.
	Well, maybe right now.
	This is going to change, let me say, in the future.
	And John Mack was certainly...
	A precursor of all that's to come in this regard.
	But I have to say that this sector, what we're all about, is the name of the game for the future because humanity has been messed with the way you're being messed with as an individual back through history.
	And because of that, we have a lineage that involves this sort of thing.
	And look, You and I kind of connected in the sense of the Native American background, the Irish background.
	And so what you're talking about is you came in with a mission.
	You may not have remembered your mission, but whether you like it or you don't like it, you're higher self.
	You're stuck with it.
	Your higher self is saying, you want to do this, you know, whether you remember or not.
	Remembering is what it's really all about for all of us.
	And so nobody's really so much teaching anyone else.
	What you're doing is you're sending out this information to wake up people so that they can remember their own missions.
	And so that humanity as a whole can rescue itself From a situation that's gotten very bad.
	It's like, if you have an infestation, just an analogy, of rodents or whatever you want to call it in your house, and you're in denial, and you keep stumbling on them and all this kind of thing, and they're hurting your animals.
	I mean, look, we have an infestation on the planet.
	I agree.
	We have a lot of negative races here.
	Now, we have a lot of positive that are on our side as well.
	So I want to keep that balance in people's minds.
	But that doesn't lessen the importance of us waking up to know what is wrong with this place.
	What has happened to this place?
	So you're wondering what that sound was, right?
	Interesting.
	Well, I mean, after you've lived here a while, things that don't make sense tend to be predatory.
	Yeah, I hear you.
	I didn't hear anything.
	Well, I did.
	It came, actually, it seemed to come from over there, I thought.
	But, whatever.
	So, I mean, look, there are going to be negative ETs listening to this.
	There are going to be positive ETs orchestrating it.
	Because we're about getting the work.
	And I have nothing against...
	You're doing something that is a service to humanity that is so valuable.
	And I can't stress it enough because I know firsthand with my own situation how I've been attacked.
	But prior to that and even besides that, I know that there are little children being abducted every day.
	And some very dire things happening to them and unsuspecting.
	You know about the people disappearing in national parks.
	400,000 a year.
	There you go.
	And the children, of course.
	There's a recent story that Jimmy Church just covered the Mojave incident.
	A couple who went through this kind of situation.
	And they didn't know from anything, basically.
	And they were thrown into this situation here in the desert.
	Right.
	These Southern California and Southwestern, I guess you'd call it, of the United States.
	It's a hot zone.
	It is such, you know, I mean, there are underground bases everywhere.
	We call this UFO Central.
	I mean, it's just, you know, we've seen so many different types of things out here.
	It's vital, what you're doing here.
	And you maybe haven't gotten the credit, but also hiding, it's hard to, you know, people aren't going to know.
	They're going to know now.
	Carrie, I never wanted credit for it, okay?
	I get it.
	Realize something, and that is, I've always prayed to God, and I said, Lord, let me do whatever you need me to do in this world.
	I'm here.
	I'll do whatever you need, and I'll put up with whatever I have to, and I'll give whatever is necessary in order to be a good man and to make a difference.
	I had no idea that it was going to involve something like this.
	I thought after I got my master's degree and I went into practice and everything that I was just going to see people either in their homes or in their office.
	I had no idea that they were going to come from literally other planets.
	There you go.
	But humanity is stepping up.
	I mean, as a huge race of beings, our awareness on this planet is just going sky high right now.
	And you're part of that.
	You're going to be part of the reason.
	Why we take back our own sovereignty, you see.
	And why people start learning self-defense skills, start learning how to, you know, protect themselves and their children against the negative side.
	Because denying that the negative side exists does not make it go away.
	You can't stick your head in the sand and expect that all the monsters are going to respect that.
	Right.
	They don't.
	And so, this is very, very crucial to me.
	And...
	You're the unsung heroes.
	And I know you didn't sign up to be a hero, per se.
	But that's what it's all about.
	And let me say that...
	We've got a dog here, so...
	She's just...
	Kind of talky.
	Stretching.
	And maybe she just agreed with what I have to say.
	She probably knows you're a hero.
	And I can say that, you know, what's going to happen as a result of this, we don't even know.
	You know what I mean?
	And now she's licking me.
	Yeah, you agree.
	That's right.
	He's a hero.
	Because, you know, obviously you're doing good.
	And that's really what it's all about.
	You know, I say this.
	Do not hide your light, okay, under a bushel, as they say in the Bible, whatever.
	Don't hide your light.
	We are brighter because each of us is bright.
	And we shine like a sun when we connect.
	And we let our light shine.
	So you need to not hide your knowledge, your understanding, the deep experience you bring to the story.
	And see, that's what's happened with so many people that are experiencers and abductees, because I do counseling.
	Yes.
	I mean, you know, if I hung out a shingle doing counseling for abductees, it would be, you know...
	There'd be no standing room.
	I can tell you, you know, off camera, we already shared one person who had their own experiences that was so struck by your story.
	That person is in hiding right now.
	They've been threatened.
	By the government and so on.
	We need stories like you and yours to keep up the good fight.
	Those of us that are out there that are fighting the battle, whether we're seen on a camera or not, you're still fighting a battle, you know.
	And it's unfortunate, but it's ongoing nearly, I would say, two or three times a week we have incidents.
	Okay.
	You know, and I mean...
	They attack my wife, and that's the part that angers me the most.
	I despise the fact that they go after the animals, but they go after my wife.
	Incredible.
	It breaks my heart.
	Because...
	She's never done anything.
	That woman doesn't have a bad bone or a mean bone in her body.
	She's the sweetest woman I've ever met, and I love her dearly.
	It just chokes me practically to death to see what's happened to her.
	Because of contact, she's come down with a fatal disease.
	And I pray every night and I just say, Lord, please, I don't care what else you do, please heal this woman.
	Right.
	I'm okay with having it come at me, but don't go after my wife.
	This is going down for posterity to record what has gone on, your grasp of what has gone on and why.
	I would never have thought in a million years that it would have anything to do with me.
	I mean, I just...
	I always thought I was in the wrong place at the wrong time.
	But I mean, across my life, I've had weird stuff happen.
	I had a guy walk up to me on a field trip when I was just a little kid at Lincoln Park Zoo in Chicago, you know, where I grew up.
	It was a spring morning, late spring, because in Chicago, spring's still cold.
	He walked up to me and asked me who I was, and I told him my name.
	I was kind of worried because he was a big guy and I was a little guy.
	I was like, you know, I've been told all about stranger danger and all that stuff when you're little.
	And so I was kind of nervous about this guy just walking up to me, but he was well-dressed, and he was probably in his early 50s.
	And he asked me who I was, and I told him my name, and he said, May I shake your hand?
	And I said, I guess so.
	And I put out my little hand, and I shook his hand.
	And the guy had literally tears running down his cheeks.
	And he said, It is just such a thrill to meet you.
	And I looked at him and I said, okay, why?
	And he said, you're going to do great things in the future.
	You're very important.
	Wow.
	I was like, okay.
	You know, it didn't mean anything to me.
	And he turned around and he just literally just disappeared.
	He didn't walk away.
	He just disappeared.
	And I thought, that's strange.
	I've never seen anybody do that before.
	And that no sooner happened than the teacher came over.
	And she looked at me and she said, who is that man?
	And I said, I don't know.
	He just said that he wanted to meet me and shake my hand.
	And she said, you're not supposed to talk to strangers on field trips.
	I'm responsible for you.
	Get back on the bus.
	Get back on the bus.
	That was my field trip.
	That was amazing.
	In retrospect, years later, I thought to myself, that sure didn't happen for no good reason.
	There you go.
	It's kind of always stuck with me.
	Right.
	And he could have been a time traveler.
	Well, I guess that's kind of where I arrived at it, too.
	Really?
	Yeah.
	When I talked to you last time, I got the definite feeling that we were only grazing the tip of the iceberg, as they say.
	So, again, this is your platform.
	I'm now here.
	I've driven all these miles.
	We had an anomalous thing go on last night with us that was a little...
	Let's just say semi-threatening in a weird way, a very weird way.
	And we had a car, a white van with something on the back of it that came in front of our car three times in a row as we were driving in the I-10 over here in the middle of the night, late at night.
	And cut us off three times, and he was flashing his hazards, and then would pull over to the side of the road.
	Like he wanted you to pull over with him?
	I don't know, but then we would continue, and...
	And then about, you know, 15 minutes later, the same thing happened.
	And about 15 more minutes later, the exact same thing happened.
	And it was the same vehicle each time.
	Exact same car, exact same maneuver.
	Strange.
	And then the fourth time, they drove by us.
	And there was another car, and at one point even a A big truck, one of those semis.
	And the car in the semi seemed to be doing something completely weird.
	And then they seemed to box us in.
	And this one car kept doing the same thing this white car had been doing, the white van.
	And they kept coming alongside of us and pulling over and sort of cutting us off.
	They would be going really fast and then all of a sudden come Cut us off and slow down.
	So we had to, like, move out of that lane and try to pass them.
	You know, being who I am and on the way to do something like this.
	And, I mean, I drive, I've driven this road a hundred times, you know, Bill and I in the early days, because a lot of the witnesses are ex-military and they're all in the Southwest.
	Almost all of them.
	Which is a bit odd in its own right.
	Right.
	And, well, there's lots of military bases here, as you know, lots of underground bases, the whole nine yards.
	So, what I'm saying is we never had that happen.
	What was happening last night, it was one of those kinds of things that they do to tell me that they're watching us.
	You know, it's that kind of thing where...
	Am I really going crazy or is this really happening?
	But of course, I wasn't alone, thank God.
	And the two of us observed the exact same thing.
	And both of us saw, well, you can't say, you can't pick up the phone and call the police.
	Yeah, what are you going to tell them?
	Yeah, are you crazy?
	We used to find things moved around in the house.
	You know, furniture and stuff moved around in the house.
	And I'd look at my wife and I'd say, why did you move the furniture?
	And she's like, no, I didn't move the furniture.
	And I'd be like, well, do you notice that it's not in the same place it was when we left?
	And she'd be like, yeah, I see that.
	And I'm like, well, somebody wants us to notice that something's going on and apparently we're not getting it or something.
	They're trying to make a statement.
	Right.
	So with, okay, with this sort of painting this picture now, tell us what is it you need us to know and what has happened to you in a sort of chronological order so that people will understand who watched this, and I can guarantee you people will be watching.
	Can you tell us your story?
	And I want to also, you know, I mean, please do include the dog, which we will Yes, we have, unfortunately.
	Over the years, we've lost horses that were the equivalent of a cattle mutilation.
	We have photographs of it.
	We made Livestock Bureau reports back when Arizona still had a Livestock Bureau to report things to, which they don't anymore, apparently.
	It used to be here in Arizona, if you had a horse, it was recommended, although it wasn't required by law, that you register the horse with the state.
	And so they'd give you a yellow card that had all of the horse's information on it.
	And so if the horse was ever stolen, you could prove, you'd say, look, here's my yellow card, here's the photographs.
	Here's a description on the back of it.
	That's my horse.
	You could actually do something about it.
	Which was nice back in the day.
	We would have literally...
	We'd see the lights in the south sky, the orbs.
	We would see triangles.
	We would see all sorts of different types of ships.
	And when we first moved here and we saw this stuff, it was like, wow, that's kind of an extra bonus.
	Hey, that's cool.
	Look at that.
	Who would think that we'd move to a ranch in the middle of nowhere and all of a sudden we'd start seeing all this stuff?
	It really didn't bother us at first.
	We just thought it was weird but kind of neat.
	Then things started happening on the property.
	The very first day that we got here, the people that we bought the ranch from, they didn't move out.
	And we literally showed up with all our stuff in a rental truck from Glendale.
	And we were, okay, here's our new house.
	Let's move in.
	Their stuff hadn't moved and they weren't gone.
	And I called the realtor and I said, excuse me, we just moved out of our rental in Glendale.
	We bought this place.
	What's the deal?
	And so he called the family and apparently they just didn't get the idea that they had to move out.
	Which makes no sense, but we couldn't talk to them.
	He said he didn't want us having contact with them.
	He wouldn't handle it all.
	So he said, can you go to town and have breakfast or lunch or something, and hopefully when you get back, they'll be moved.
	You know, you can see it's a pretty big house.
	It's not easy for somebody just, you know, three hours to load up their stuff and go.
	Right.
	Well, we came back and the place was empty.
	And we thought, wow, that's pretty cool.
	They got out in a hurry.
	And then we went out to the pool area.
	We have a big diving pool.
	Every bit of their stuff was in the pool.
	Oh, no.
	Big furniture, little furniture, paper products, you name it.
	It was all stacked up in the pool.
	And I was horrified.
	And I'm like, they didn't move.
	They just threw it in the pool.
	And I was furious.
	So I called the realtor, and he came out, and he said, I have no idea.
	Well, he got hold of the people that we bought the place from, and they said they thought that we threw all their stuff in the pool.
	And I was like, why would I do that?
	I'm still going to have to drag it all out again.
	So I said, would you please tell them to come over and get all their crap?
	And they never came back.
	They never move their stuff.
	Wow.
	I ended up loading it all with a dolly and dragging it out to the curb and just setting it out there for them.
	And gradually, I guess people just came by and took it.
	I don't know if they took it, but people took it.
	Wow.
	So that was the very first day.
	That's really bizarre.
	That was over a weekend, and then on Monday, we didn't have gates at first up front, and that's in fact why we got gates.
	This man came walking up the driveway, and he had a machete.
	And he didn't have a shirt on, and he looked sort of disheveled and much the way you might think that maybe some old vet or something like that who'd been left out in the sun too long or something.
	That's what he appeared to me, and I'm not putting vets down because I'm very much a fan of all vets.
	Thank you for your service.
	But in this particular case, that's what he reminded me of in practice.
	You see people sometimes like that.
	Sure.
	And he wandered up the path, and I figured long ago when I moved out here I might need a gun, so I had gone out and purchased a.357 revolver, and I kind of stuck it down the back of my pants and I walked outside, you know, because the guy had a weapon.
	And I didn't know if it was going to evolve into some kind of, you know, incident.
	I greeted him as cordially as I could, with caution.
	And I said, you know, good afternoon.
	Could I help you with something?
	And he looked at me and he said, what are you doing here?
	And I said, well, I just bought this property.
	And he said, you don't live here.
	And he mentioned the name of the people that we bought it from.
	He said, they live here, and they told me to make sure that nobody comes around here and messes with their stuff.
	And I said, well, sir, I'm sorry to tell you this, but they're gone.
	They don't live here anymore.
	And he said, well, you see that building back there on the back of the property?
	And I said, yes.
	And he says, that's where I live.
	And that's what we call our tack room, okay?
	It's just a place where you store feed and saddles and things like that for the horses.
	And he said, that's my place back there.
	And I said, well, it's not your place anymore.
	That's part of my place.
	And I don't know you, and quite frankly, I don't need your services.
	And I'd appreciate it if you'd just kind of turn yourself around and head back out the gate.
	And he looked at me and he said, you know, you're going to wish I was here.
	And I looked at him and he had a firm grip on that machete.
	And I was thinking to myself, man, I don't want to have to shoot this guy.
	You know, I just moved here.
	You know, it's not a good way to start off.
	And he said, you are really going to be sorry.
	And I said, well, what am I going to be sorry about?
	Because I thought he was kind of trying to intimidate me and threaten me a little bit.
	And what he said was, there's monsters on this property.
	Incredible.
	Incredible.
	And I looked at him and I said, well, what kind of monsters?
	And he said, well, there's aliens here.
	And I said, oh, come on.
	And I looked at him and I was just like, well, now I know the guy's in that case.
	And believe me, that has rung in my ears for 19 years that I was sorry that I said that.
	And he said, no, there's really aliens here.
	They're monsters.
	And I said, so what do you do that's important to, you know, that you should be here?
	And he goes, well, I killed them.
	And I said, you killed him.
	He goes, yeah, that's what this machete's for.
	And I never put it down.
	I always have it with me, just in case.
	And he says, at night, you'll see them.
	They come in the sky, and then the next thing you know, they show up here.
	And I just thought he was a lunatic.
	I literally thought, this guy's gone off his rocker.
	He's probably, you know...
	Who knows?
	Too much acid or something.
	And I didn't think twice about throwing him off the property.
	And he just kind of kept laughing to himself and saying, you're going to be sorry.
	You're going to be sorry.
	And that was my first inclination that this place wasn't right.
	Incredible.
	It was kind of like foreshadowing.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	So he left?
	He left.
	I never saw him again.
	You never saw him again?
	Never saw him again.
	Believe me, in all these years, I would have apologized to him, taken him out for a meal, and thanked him for trying to be honest with me.
	Well, it sounds like maybe he lived near the vortex.
	You said the cave back there?
	Yeah, the tack room is less than 100 feet from the vortex.
	Yeah.
	I got that.
	And I want to go out and film that.
	Sure.
	Feel the energy and all that.
	So we'll definitely do that.
	So, okay, let's fast forward and, you know, trying to remember what you've told me, what you haven't told me, that sort of thing, so that we don't necessarily repeat ourselves here.
	Can you talk about some of the major incidents that happened?
	And maybe, I assume, let me say this, you must have started researching at some point to educate yourself.
	Or do you feel that you were educated in another way?
	Well, the first thing that I realized when I started seeing things here...
	Was that I was woefully unprepared.
	I mean, a professional education in social work and counseling is absolutely the wrong background in a platform of study for dealing with this kind of thing.
	So, I realized that I'd better bone up in a hurry and try to, you know, read as much as I could.
	When I started looking things up, I had no clue what to look up.
	I didn't know anybody.
	I literally, I just was completely...
	I was scared.
	And I don't get scared.
	And I thought to myself, what am I going to do?
	And my wife never wanted to move out here.
	That was the whole thing.
	My wife's from Wisconsin.
	And she moved to Arizona to take a job with the FBI. And when we got together, one of the first things she asked me was, you're not a farmer, are you?
	You don't want cows, do you?
	And I said, no.
	And she said, well, okay, then I think I'm okay.
	Well, we got married, and she never asked me what I really wanted, which was a ranch with horses.
	Sure.
	And so when I finally told her what I really wanted, she was horrified.
	It was like, you know, God played a cruel joke on me.
	You know, I moved from dairy land and, you know...
	I met a guy here and ended up...he wants a horse farm.
	So she really never wanted to move out here.
	And for her, it's about a 48-mile hike each way every day to go to work.
	And so, you know, it's been...
	It was a real act of love for her to allow me to have my dream and to pursue what I wanted to do.
	And she supported it financially with hard work and with her heart and with all her sacrifices all these years.
	So is she still in the FBI? No.
	She left the FBI about three, four years after we got married.
	She decided that she wanted to go back into working in mental health and working with various different populations in mental health doing rehab work.
	And so that's what she's been doing.
	I see.
	And at the time, I was...
	Working in places like the Arizona State Hospital and working in private practice a little bit, working for one of the largest behavioral health companies here in Arizona and contracting out services to different agencies like the Superior Court of Arizona, the Supreme Court of Arizona, the City of Phoenix, police departments, all sorts of things like that.
	And so, you know, I had a pretty good background for doing Therapy and counseling.
	And we had that in common, and so that made it a pretty good match for us together.
	We had a lot of things that we shared professionally, and it worked.
	Until we bought this place.
	And then it became a huge obstacle in our relationship for a while.
	So how many years into having this place, I mean, did the stuff happen aside from the one man with his machete?
	Did other things start happening immediately or was there sort of a gradual...
	I didn't make a lot of connection for some of the things that was happening here until the night of the Phoenix Lights.
	Oh, really?
	Because I had seen the objects in the sky, in the south sky, but the night of the Phoenix Lights, my wife and I were in my convertible Mustang, and we were coming back from a movie, and we saw everything that everybody saw with the Phoenix Lights.
	And I was astounded because I said...
	That's those guys.
	That's the ones in the South Sky.
	And I thought to myself, man, you know, now we've got a connection.
	Now I realize what this is really all about.
	Before that, it was just kind of guesswork and, you know, we would...
	You know, say, well, it's probably aliens or maybe UFO stuff that's, you know, weird.
	But we didn't really connect it all together.
	You know, the dots, we were starting to see the dots, but we weren't really connecting them.
	There's lots of weird stuff around here.
	That sounds like your bird.
	No, my bird's on the way out there.
	I know, but I was just wondering, that wasn't your bird making that noise?
	No, that wasn't my bird making that noise.
	Okay.
	We didn't really want to believe.
	I mean, there was a lot of denial because there was no way back from our commitment to this place financially, and we just didn't want to believe the things that we were saying were true.
	Okay, but the Night of the Phoenix Lights, I want to go back to that.
	You saw them, you saw this validation.
	Did you go online to see, did you hear the whole hullabaloo and everyone talking?
	There used to be a website out there called the Cause website that Peter Gersten, the UFO attorney, had.
	And I used to put all the stuff that I saw out here, every time I saw it, on his website.
	Oh, really?
	Yeah.
	And I don't know if it's still around, but...
	Did you ever meet him?
	Oh, yeah.
	Peter became my attorney.
	Oh, you're kidding.
	Okay.
	Peter became a great friend.
	He's a wonderful man.
	So I've heard.
	Yeah, he's a great guy.
	And he lived in Sedona, I thought.
	Yes.
	And he was our attorney.
	Okay.
	I don't know.
	So we had a chance to, you know, we had a chance to share a lot of stories.
	Okay.
	And Jim Delatoso, who owns Village Labs, actually tested the videos that we took out here of the lights in the south sky, and he's the one that said, you know what, they match perfectly to the Phoenix lights.
	The same color spectrographic temperature and color.
	He said they're identical.
	And so...
	So those craft, can you describe what you saw?
	Because you saw them, right?
	Yes.
	So describe those craft and also the fact that, I know that Courtney Brown and his remote viewers have said that there were cat beings driving those craft.
	And very tall cat beings.
	They weren't the only ones on the craft, apparently, but they were the main ETs that were whatever you want to call them.
	We just kept seeing ships, and then we saw lights that looked like orbs, and they would literally dock with the larger, for lack of another expression, a mothership.
	And they would undock, and then they would go off and move around.
	And this is the Phoenix Lights?
	Yes.
	Okay, now was the mothership, can you describe it?
	Looked like a big triangle.
	A triangle.
	Okay.
	And I kind of know that also because I've been about 60 feet away from one of those triangles.
	Literally, one day I had a dog that disappeared out of our kennel, and I went looking for the dog, and I started driving south in my Jeep.
	And I parked the jeep on the side of the road, and I walked down this little embankment, and then I walked up a little rise on the other side, and just as I got to the top of that rise, all of a sudden, a black triangle rose up right out of, it was practically parked on the ground.
	And I mean, it was huge.
	Wow.
	No sound at all.
	And it literally made all the hair on my body just stick out.
	Like static electricity.
	And I thought to myself, wow, I wish I had a camera.
	Did you find your dog?
	Not right away.
	Actually, the dog got home before I did.
	And I turned around to go back and get the camera.
	Two hours later, I found myself standing in exactly the same position with my video camera hanging from my shoulder and it was turned on and it was just making, it was just white noise.
	There was nothing on the camera.
	The ship was gone and I was...
	Very sunburnt and very overheated.
	And I got back in the Jeep and I drove home.
	And for about the next three or four days, I was sick as a dog.
	I had high temperature.
	I had an extreme gastrointestinal distress.
	And eventually it went away.
	But it was a spooky event.
	So you had missing time?
	Yes.
	Did you ever see any beings come out of one of those black triangles?
	No.
	No?
	That's the whole thing.
	I've seen all sorts of different ships, but I can't honestly say that I've ever seen them leave the ship and then come to the house and start doing stuff.
	Okay.
	Now, Tommy Hawksblood says you have blocks, right?
	Right.
	And that you are...
	Trying to retrieve those memories.
	Have you ever tried to go to a regression therapy kind of thing?
	And how has that worked out?
	Well, I mean...
	Things got so bad here for a while where things were happening and I was afraid to tell anybody and so I just kept getting more and more anxious about everything and I got to the point where I was very depressed about it and my wife was worried about me and she kept saying, you need to go see somebody and I said, great, I'm Doing this job.
	I'm going to go to company-sponsored counseling and tell them that I see aliens.
	You know, I might as well have just said I see dead people.
	You know?
	And I didn't know what to do.
	And so...
	A friend of ours, who is a very well-known therapist in terms of being a hypnotherapist, who was president of the Arizona Hypnotherapy Association for years and years here, he said, John, I'll be happy to have you come in and do a session and let's see what happens.
	And so Joyce and I went in and did a session, and the next thing I knew, it was kind of like, you know, pulling on a string, and it just, one string led to another, and eventually we got to the point where we had this big pile of strings.
	Right.
	Well, that's kind of what happened.
	And for a period of over a year, I went in and did these sessions.
	Oh, wow.
	And some of these sessions would last four and five hours.
	Right.
	So do you have recordings of these sessions?
	I do.
	And have you listened to them?
	Oh, yeah.
	And what do they tell you?
	This is something that I'm not really ready to get into.
	Really?
	Yeah.
	I have not gotten to the point yet where I can reconcile everything.
	Well, just out of curiosity, you went through this year...
	Did your wife also start doing the therapy or no?
	She tried.
	But it really didn't seem to work with her.
	I mean, she'd just all of a sudden wake up before she'd get into it and they'd kind of do the guided imagery thing and it'd get to the point where he would say, okay, I want you to look at this on a video screen and detach from it so it's not you reliving the experience.
	And she just shut down.
	Oh.
	And wake up.
	And it just didn't really work.
	But I will suffice to say this, that some very strange things happened during the sessions.
	Literally everything in the office literally rose up and started spinning around in the room, coming off the walls, that kind of thing.
	Really?
	Yes.
	Yeah.
	And did you freak out the therapist?
	Actually, he was really cool about it.
	I think he was probably as surprised as anybody else, but he just went with it.
	He was a real pro.
	Okay, so you're going there, you've got a bunch of stuff there, and you're hearing about what it is that's going on with you.
	Yes.
	So, I mean, and what year was this that you did this?
	This would have been like 97 or 98 through about 2000.
	Okay.
	And then as things continued to get worse, he offered for me to come back, and so I'd go back and do a couple more sessions here and there.
	But his office moved to the far east, southeast valley, and it was a real hassle to drive all the way over there and try to make arrangements.
	So the sessions became less and less.
	How would you feel after the sessions?
	Immediately afterwards, I felt pretty good.
	I felt like there was a release.
	I felt like it was an epiphany.
	I mean, it was just sort of like, well, that makes sense, I guess, considering...
	But I also unfortunately felt, quite frankly, that the situation was kind of ganging up on me in the fact that I was being told that what I should be deriving from the situation and from the sessions was that I needed to do whatever was necessary to get rid of the ranch and that I was being unfair to my wife and that I was putting her in harm's way And
	that I needed to make a choice between the ranch and the horses and the animals and my wife.
	And that caused a bit of derision between us.
	It was a hard thing because she heard that and she was like, yeah, he's right.
	And I'm like, well, maybe, but I'm sorry, do you have a million bucks that you can go ahead and buy another ranch?
	No.
	Okay.
	There's logic.
	There's reality.
	And there's what you want.
	And sometimes you just have to forego what you want, and you have to try to do what's right.
	And in my case, what was right was, I'm not going to throw the ranch away, I'm not going to sacrifice the animals, and you're a woman, you're an adult, and if you need to make a different choice, make it.
	And I told her straight up, I love you, but if you need to go live someplace else until I can figure out a solution for us, go ahead and do it.
	She didn't do it.
	She was angry with me, but she didn't do it.
	So, okay, but you've got stuff within these regressions that would have explained some of...
	It would have explained a lot of things.
	Yeah.
	And assuming that you...
	Did you feel that, you know, because you're in this profession in a certain way...
	Right.
	Do you do regressions as part of your therapy?
	Well, this is the interesting thing, and that was that I was so profoundly moved by the quality of the information that I received, because parts of it were really helpful, and parts of it I just did not want to accept.
	I mean, I was horrified.
	But I thought the stuff that worked was amazing, and he offered to train me.
	And so I literally went to school to become a hypnotherapist.
	Oh, you did?
	And I completed and graduated and added it to my practice.
	I see.
	And been, sort of been that way ever since.
	Okay, so, but okay, again, you got information.
	Right.
	If I were to sit here with you, you could explain quite a bit of what's going on.
	It's not so much explaining about the ranch.
	Right.
	It's more information that was passed to me through not even the experiences with the Greys, but with other entities.
	Okay.
	And information about why, sort of an overview of what What's happening here on the planet.
	Life on Earth.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	And why and how.
	But you're still in denial even after that because you're saying this happened in what?
	1987, 98, 99.
	So your sort of emotional, I'm just a loose way of addressing this, but your emotional body hadn't caught up with the intellectual.
	I just didn't want to believe it was me.
	I just did not want...
	This wasn't the life that I chose.
	I really worked hard to order my life.
	I'm going to be a counselor.
	I'm going to get degrees.
	I'm going to get straight A's.
	I'm going to do all these things.
	Sounds like you did all those things.
	I did everything.
	I thought, man, I get this thing knocked.
	Okay, but there's a you here that is your physical body and your consciousness here.
	But obviously, if you went through experiences like that, and probably even before that, you're aware that there's a lot more to us, to each human, than that.
	Yeah?
	Than the here and now in this reality.
	It's not that I don't acknowledge it.
	I just didn't want to accept it.
	I still don't want to accept it.
	This isn't the life that I've wanted.
	It's a control issue.
	It's my life.
	I should get to order my life.
	I made up my mind, okay, if you're going to hijack my life, you're going to give me something for it.
	And that means you're going to tell me cool stuff.
	Stuff that I could use.
	And I thought that was only fair.
	So you got that?
	Yeah.
	They started giving me technology.
	They started giving me insights into all sorts of really high tech, high science, cool stuff.
	Cool stuff that I couldn't even understand, really, until I started studying it.
	And I thought, okay, that's kind of fair.
	If you're going to make a total nightmare for me, at least I can kind of bargain with you a little bit.
	And so people started coming into my life that weren't from this planet and started sharing and started explaining things.
	And I thought, okay, that's not so bad.
	I mean, that's better.
	And a lot of my life goals started changing.
	I started thinking to myself, well...
	Okay, you get this information.
	What do you want to do with it?
	And I said, well, you know what?
	I want to start some other projects.
	Like, I want to be able to try to do something that's going to elevate the planet from a point of view of kind of being practical.
	Like, everybody in my mind needs to have clean water.
	Everybody should have clean water.
	You know, not just people that have money.
	Everybody.
	Everybody should have access to good food.
	Everybody should have access to housing.
	Everybody should have access to being able to be healthy.
	And we should all be able to meet in a neutral space from our cultures and our belief systems so that we can grow together and we can help each other.
	And I started thinking about that and that became the new paradigm for John Edmonds.
	I started asking them to give me that information on how to do those things.
	Well, that started all coming.
	And so I learned about how to create inexpensive, really good housing in terms of dome technology.
	And I learned how to create an emulsion system that you could put on any surface that's photovoltaic so that you could literally paint the surface with it and it will track with the sun in a heliotropic manner like a plant and it will collect the energy so that truly you could live any place on this planet and have electricity you could have clean water You could have food using the systems that they taught me.
	And there's no reason for us to live in this antiquated, violent world ruled over by tyrants that are raping everything about this planet and destroying it.
	Absolutely.
	And so I thought, that's what I really want to do, is I want to meet people like me that want to do those things together And let's form some kind of an institute or let's form some kind of a project together and let's make it happen.
	And gradually as the stories begin to sort of leak out and I've embraced enough courage to stand up and tell the truth and put it out there, people are starting to come forward.
	And it feels good.
	For the first time I feel some validation.
	I feel like I'm not a victim.
	I'm not somebody who has to take this.
	And this ranch isn't the end of my road.
	It isn't my destination.
	It isn't my final place, hopefully.
	And there's a way out of this.
	And by reaching out and sharing my heart and sharing what's in my head and maybe being in a place where I can meet some really good, meaningful people that are significant and want to bring this world to a better place, Maybe that's the payback.
	Absolutely.
	So that's kind of where I'm at.
	Well, you know, and that's a beautiful place to be.
	I can say that...
	It's clear that there is more than one thing going on here, okay?
	So we see the darker side, you know, and that's crucial, but it's also, you know, there's also the upside.
	Yeah, it took a lot of lemons and made lemonade.
	Absolutely.
	So at this time, you know, we're beginning to help you to disclose, okay?
	Right.
	And...
	Let me ask you this.
	Have you been threatened?
	I have.
	To your face or overtly or covertly?
	Can you describe some of that?
	I've been shot at.
	My wife and I literally walked out of the house one day to go to church.
	And we were met with a hail of gunfire.
	And we ended up having to pull a large metal container that we use for horse water.
	To water the horses out front, we ended up, fortunately it was empty that day, and we tipped it over and hid under it and called 911, and the sheriff came out here and chased off the bad guys.
	Who were they?
	Do you know?
	We don't know.
	How were they equipped?
	They were standing up on the mountain across the street and just raining down like sniper fire on us.
	I see.
	Were they military?
	I have no idea.
	I never saw them.
	Oh, you didn't see them?
	No.
	I mean, when you're getting shot at, the last thing you're worried about is getting a clear picture of who's doing it.
	You just don't want to get hit.
	And I hit my wife, and so I laid on top of her, and I just hoped for the best.
	Okay, but what happened after that?
	I mean, that's it?
	No.
	I mean, there's, again, I've been...
	I mean, the authorities, did they come back and say, you know, anything about it?
	No.
	No.
	I mean, we never hear anything.
	That's the thing.
	I mean, we're out here, and see, until recently, there were no other homes out here around us.
	And so we were literally out here in the wilderness.
	And when things would happen, it was like, deal with it.
	You know, just do the best you can.
	Okay.
	Okay.
	And since what happened to my brother happened after I did a coast-to-coast appearance a few years ago, you know, we've become, I wouldn't say hyper-vigilant, but we've certainly become more vigilant.
	So he knows that you're coming forward, I assume, at this time?
	No.
	He doesn't know?
	No.
	Are you not in touch?
	No, we're in touch, but I just haven't told him, basically because of the fact that he's in the hospital right now, and I didn't think he needed the stress.
	I see.
	Okay, and I think, I don't know if we had the cameras on, but you did say that, I don't know when this was, but you had a large number of your family died?
	Yes.
	In a six-month period.
	My mother, well my dad died on December 5th of 1993 and 21 days later my mother died on Christmas morning and then after that it was just unfortunately a parade of misery and both my grandmothers died.
	I ended up having a triple funeral for my parents and my grandmother all at the same time.
	And they died of different things?
	They all died of different things.
	Okay.
	So, at this point, in terms of the ET interactions, you're not going to tell me what happened in your sessions.
	And certainly that's your prerogative.
	I might tell you sometime.
	I just wasn't prepared to do it today.
	No problem.
	But what I was getting at is, is there some other incidents that you can say?
	I know that you and your wife had that very clear abduction when you went to your truck.
	One day, and you open the door of the truck, and that was all you remember?
	Right.
	Do you know what happened then?
	I mean, did you get an aggression that told you what happened during that time?
	Or have you never found that?
	No, I... See, part of the problem is this, and that is that...
	I listened to the tapes, and I know I said those things.
	Yeah.
	And I know I lived those experiences...
	But they just seem so unreal to me that it's as if I don't want to believe them.
	I mean, it's like it happened to somebody else, but it was me.
	And I just have a real hard time reconciling some of that.
	Well, are they things that happened to you that you didn't like?
	Or are they things that happened to you that you did that you didn't like?
	In other words, was it you that you don't like about them?
	No.
	I just don't like the whole thing.
	I don't like that feeling of loss of control.
	I see.
	I don't like the fact that somebody could literally just pick you up and take you.
	I hate that feeling.
	I hate the fact that I can't do anything about it.
	But did this ever happen willingly?
	No, absolutely not.
	With any positive, even positive beings?
	Never?
	No.
	Not in your memory?
	Not in my memory.
	I mean...
	It's not like somebody showed up on a Harley and said, hey man, get on the back and let's go to Costa Rica or something.
	But you did have some positive beings.
	You said they came in your living room.
	Yeah, well those were awesome.
	I mean, those guys were very cool.
	I mean, that was a good experience.
	They didn't take you anywhere.
	No, no.
	They came here and they were cooperative and they were nice.
	They answered questions.
	And even then, when they came...
	I was very skeptical.
	I mean, I thought to myself, okay, this is like, let's fool John Edmonds again, you know, so let's see.
	I just, I got to the point where I was just like, I don't know.
	They could be doing this.
	This is explainable this way.
	I kept rationalizing everything.
	Were you looking at it as the military?
	If you've researched the area, you know about men in black.
	I've had the men in black.
	You know about military abductions, perhaps.
	You understand that they've been working in cahoots with some of these beings.
	Was it your feeling that some of that was going on with you?
	I saw, during some of these experiences, I definitely saw uniforms.
	I definitely saw different races.
	I definitely had a chance to be off the planet.
	It's just so preposterous.
	I know, but let's fool John.
	I'm kind of going from there.
	Are you saying that the military wanted to fool you?
	I don't know who wanted to fool me.
	I'm just saying that when these individuals were sitting in my living room and they're showing me technology and they're showing me all these exotic minerals, I'm just saying to myself...
	This could be explained.
	That was always what I would say to myself.
	This could be explained.
	In mental health, you always try to look for the rational.
	You always try to cling to the factual.
	You're always looking for something that is a failure in the system of the human being that's involved and trying to account for it somehow.
	That's actually key.
	You know, I have studied a bit of this, and I can tell you that one of the things that I had a wonderful professor that talked about this, but he said the trouble with all of the mental health field is that they're always looking to blame what's happening on the human.
	You know, there's something wrong with us.
	Right.
	That's what they want you to think.
	Now, this is a program.
	That in itself is programming.
	And see, that's the thing.
	This is a program that the powers that be have wanted everyone to think.
	You're right.
	And let's feel, I mean, let me just say, let's fool John, thinking something, you know, that you haven't chosen this, all of these kinds of decisions, you know, like this decision tree of sorts.
	Right.
	In the end, it comes back to the thing of that you've done something wrong to deserve this.
	That you are in the wrong somehow, someway.
	And being in that position, it's simply not the case, first of all.
	And second of all, that is a programming to get you to shut up.
	Well, it's a shame-based thing.
	It's like a rape victim.
	Exactly, precisely.
	What I did was I tried to relate this in my experiences in the context of traditional psychotherapy.
	And so what I said to myself was, well, okay, in a sense, you are a victim.
	You are somebody who's being abused.
	So what do you know about people that get abused?
	Well, They don't blame the people that abuse them very often.
	They have a tendency to say, what's wrong with me?
	And they have a tendency to feel shame and to become very insecure about things and to become very full of doubt.
	And so part of the process of providing those individuals with therapy that works is to help them to use concrete examples to reaffirm a value system That they've identified is important to them.
	And to kind of like replug in all the assets so that they feel secure and they feel like they can manage their lives again.
	And so I thought, okay, well, hey, you know what?
	You've done that with hundreds of people.
	Why can't you do that with yourself?
	And so I did, sort of.
	And that's gradually kind of how I've managed to not resolve the issue, because I don't think I've resolved it.
	But what I have done is I have developed coping skills.
	And those coping skills have gotten me to the point where I can openly communicate about it, I can acknowledge the experiences happen, and I can try to use those experiences to give myself new insights about a way that I can be productive and positive as a member of society and as a human being.
	Okay, but let's take it outside of you for a minute and look at the situation.
	You're here in Arizona.
	You acknowledge that there are a lot of underground bases here, I assume.
	Yes.
	Both military and E.T. Well, I can tell you this, and again, this is concrete examples.
	I have seen ships literally fly through mountains, okay?
	Right.
	They come in one side, they go through the other, and they come right out.
	There doesn't seem to be any damage to them.
	Sure.
	Okay, and I've seen that dozens of times.
	Right.
	And everything that we see seems to be associated with the Australia Mountains around here.
	Okay, so...
	Okay, what about the tall whites?
	Have you seen the tall whites?
	Yes.
	Okay, and you know they live in some of these mountains, yeah?
	Okay.
	Oh, you don't know that.
	Well, I mean...
	Let's put it this way.
	It's not like trick-or-treating where I go knocking on mountains and, oh, hey!
	No, but, you know, depending on how many interactions you've had and in what type...
	I haven't had a tremendous number of interactions with the tall whites.
	I've had lots, dozens, if not hundreds of interactions with the small ones and the middle-sized ones.
	Whites.
	Well, I don't know if they're greys.
	I mean, I've met a few white ones.
	Okay.
	When I say tall whites, I'm talking about what are typically known as the Charles Hall story.
	Are you familiar with him?
	No.
	Well, I have to really encourage you to read his books.
	There are like three or four of them, Millennium Hospitality.
	I'm ignorant of all this because I tried to choose.
	Everybody wanted to fill my head, you know, and they're like, here's books, read, read, read, read, read.
	And I said to myself, if I do that, how do I make sure that my story is my story and not a mixture of things from other people's stories?
	But 19 years in, you know, it might be time to take down the wall.
	Right.
	The reason I'm saying this is because part of the way of knowing that it's not just you is understanding it's happening to others.
	Well, and I've gotten that directly reported to me by others.
	Yeah, okay, fair enough.
	But look it, Charles Hall was an airman that spent his time in the desert not far from here in Indian Wells.
	Okay.
	And ended up meeting these beings that are living in some of these mountains here and that have been living here for eons.
	And see, that was the kind of feeling I started getting was that this was not like a new story.
	I mean, this was like a real old story that just continues to evolve.
	Right.
	But you're being given a big window in on that story, you know what I mean?
	And there are a few other people out there like Charles Hall.
	And he's heavily handled.
	They wouldn't even let me interview him.
	That's how handled he is.
	And there are quite a few of those kind of people that they don't want me to get near.
	Because I have a way of getting people to tell the truth.
	Because I tell the truth, and they want to tell the truth, and we're all telling the truth, and why not?
	Well, yeah.
	But, you know, the military has their hands in all sorts of areas.
	And the good military and the bad military, and they're both going on.
	Right?
	Okay.
	So, to take this thing out of the sort of victim me scenario, and yes, you've got coping skills, par excellence, I would say.
	Thank you.
	You've even had, you know, you've even had your, you know, and I want to see the sword that you, you know, tried to kill them with and all this kind of thing.
	Did kill them with.
	All right, fair enough.
	Um...
	But what I'm saying is, you know, so you have sort of surmounted that victimhood kind of label for yourself.
	But at the same time, the picture is bigger, you know, than you, as you know.
	And to bring it into context of where you are, where your ranch is, you are right in the thick of it.
	I mean, there are major, major bases here.
	Okay, major ones underground.
	Major ones.
	Various ETs.
	Not just one group.
	Okay.
	And having a vortex here.
	Actually, having more than one vortex.
	Well, that's it.
	Got one here.
	Apparently one at the back of the ranch.
	Right.
	I call it a Stargate.
	I mean...
	Yes.
	It's tantamount to the same thing.
	Well, I mean, the thing that was interesting about ours that I've been told, and that is, is that...
	Apparently these gates go all over.
	I mean literally all over.
	Like all over the universe.
	And some of them...
	Only go to destinations, and then other ones not only go to destinations, but they can go forward and backward in time as well.
	And the reason this one apparently is so important is because that's what it does.
	And that's why we have seen, we've seen like Roman centurion soldiers come through.
	Oh yeah.
	Okay.
	And I mean, walk right past us like we weren't even there.
	You know, my wife just sat there with me and we literally watched them with spears And they had the Roman sword and they had the helmets and the whole regalia.
	And they just literally just walked through.
	And that's a historical thing.
	So we know apparently that this is not just a, you know, here let's walk through this gate and go to this planet.
	You can literally travel apparently any place, any time.
	We've seen weird things like animals come through that aren't familiar with this part of the world, like kangaroos.
	I literally had a kangaroo race me down the road one day, and I thought to myself, I don't think they have kangaroos in Arizona.
	You say you've had some beings come into your life that were sharing knowledge, yeah?
	Yes.
	I had one of them actually heal me.
	I had a debilitating illness.
	I was diagnosed in 2001 with MS. Rapid onset MS. And MRIs were taken and it showed a place in almost the center of the brain that was something that they couldn't operate on.
	Apparently there was an object.
	The doctor told me, he said, I wouldn't even try to do anything about this because chances are you wouldn't survive.
	And so he said the best you can hope for is to be medicated and you're going to have to make some hard choices about what the rest of your future is going to be.
	And I was very angry because at the moment that I had this appointment with him, he asked me if he could see my driver's license.
	And I thought, that's strange, but I handed it over to him and he put it in his desk drawer.
	And I said, what are you doing?
	And he says, you cannot drive under the circumstances.
	You're not fit to drive anymore.
	And I was like, well, you don't have the right to make that choice.
	And he said, I'm a doctor.
	And he said, if you don't want to accept this, then I will just report it to the Department of Motor Vehicles and that'll be the end of it.
	And I thought, well, you son of a bitch.
	Wow.
	So I said, okay, well, let me ask you a question.
	What's it going to take for me to get my driver's license back?
	And he looked at me and he said, a miracle.
	And I said, what do you mean a miracle?
	And he said, you're going to have to get this fixed.
	And as far as I know, there's no way to cure you.
	And I thought, well, okay, there's something for me to fix right there.
	And so I contacted again this guy that had done the hypnotherapy with me, and I told him what had happened.
	And he said, let me make a phone call and see if I can get you some help.
	And I said to myself, well, that's the place to start.
	Let's go with that.
	And so he phoned me back and he said, okay, can you be at my office so-and-so time?
	And I said, sure.
	And so he introduced me to a man who heals people.
	And I explained the events that led up to my situation and what was going on, and he kind of did some scanning with me, and he said, okay, I know what's wrong.
	And I said, can you fix it?
	And he said, I want you to come to my office next Monday, or actually it was a Friday, excuse me, and let's see what we can do.
	And so I showed up with my wife at his place and we went in.
	He had me sit down in a comfortable chair and he explained to me that MS is something where the mylar sheath that is over the nerve endings, when that becomes injured or frayed or damaged, the electrical conductivity begins to leak out.
	And so the required strategy for repairing it is you have to reseal it.
	And I said, well, that sounds like something that we're not prepared to do here.
	You don't have an operating room.
	How are you going to do this?
	And he said, well, let's see if we can do something about it.
	I have an idea.
	And he handed me this, what looked like a globe.
	Indeed, it was about the size of that globe sitting over there, that world globe.
	And he said, I just want you to hold it in your lap, and I want you to embrace it.
	It was clear and it had this gold pattern all over it.
	And it had like a pile of these little gold flecks in it.
	It kind of looked like confetti.
	And I said okay.
	And I just held it and it started to get warm.
	And it got warmer and warmer.
	It didn't get hot.
	It just got like warm.
	And all of a sudden my whole perspective changed and it wasn't like I was looking into it.
	It was like I was inside of it looking out.
	And I was alarmed by this, and he saw that, and he said, don't worry.
	You're fine.
	There's nothing that's going to hurt you here.
	And he said, just relax.
	And he had some music on in the background, and I relaxed.
	The next thing I felt, it was like I felt every nerve ending in my body.
	Suddenly I could feel every single one of them all at once.
	And I could feel how they all related to each other.
	And it was as if somebody was kind of like traveling up and down the paths of these nerves.
	And it was as if I could feel like somebody putting warm syrup or something over them.
	And I could feel it kind of oozing Over these nerve bundles.
	And it almost felt like warm water, like in a shower, just kind of soothing me and healing me.
	And this went on for about 15 or 20 minutes.
	And then he said, open your eyes.
	And I opened my eyes.
	And again, the globe was there, but it was empty.
	And he took the globe away and he said, how do you feel?
	I said, I feel great.
	It was kind of a strange experience, but I feel fine.
	And he said, well, I think we might have taken care of it for you.
	And he said, I want you to come back again after the weekend and just have a short session with me.
	And he recommended various different...
	Nutrients and vitamins and things like that for me to take, supplements.
	And we left and that was it.
	And I had been having these horrible, what I call electric shocks, 7, 8, 10, 15 times a day, to the point where they were so bad that when it hit, it would throw me on the floor.
	I mean, I was just miserable.
	I mean, I was just...
	Literally, I thought, I can't live the rest of my life like this.
	I can't live another few days even like this.
	And my wife was just distraught over it because clearly I wasn't going to be able to continue my job.
	I wasn't going to be able to do anything.
	And I never had another shock again.
	It completely healed me.
	And when I went back to see him, he scanned me again and he says, well, I think we got them all.
	And I just...
	It was the most humble I ever felt in my life.
	I was so thankful.
	I was just, you have healed me of the worst possible thing that I have ever felt.
	And that was the first really good experience I had with somebody who wasn't from here.
	So you're convinced that he wasn't from here?
	I know he wasn't.
	Okay.
	I positively know.
	Do you know because you talked to him about it or for some other reason?
	We sort of became friends.
	Okay.
	And we've been friends for the last, I don't know, 15, 16 years.
	So the globe, when you said the globe was empty, what did you mean by that?
	All the gold flecks were gone.
	They just disappeared.
	I assumed that they went into me and recoded all the areas that had been damaged.
	Now, the really interesting thing was that I still had that neurologist that I wanted to have a piece of.
	So I went back and made an appointment with him about a week later, and I said, I want you to do another MRI. And he looked at me and he said, wow, you've got MS, you're going to die.
	And, you know, it's not going to be pretty.
	And I was like, I don't think so.
	And he said, why?
	And I said, because I'm not having any symptoms anymore.
	And he says, well, you know, that's impossible.
	And I said, well, that's why I want you to do another MRI. Because you need to realize that I'm cured.
	And I told you I'd be cured.
	I wasn't going to allow you to take my driver's license away from me and remove that from my life.
	And I want my driver's license back.
	And he says, well, if you're cured, I'll give you your license back.
	And I said, fair enough.
	And so they did the MRI. They got the results.
	And a guy came in and he looks at me and he says, what did you do?
	What kind of joke are you trying to play?
	You were either doing something False in the beginning, or you're doing something false now, but I had no idea how you could have pulled this off.
	And I looked at him and I said, I met a guy who actually did something to help me rather than charge my insurance company a bunch of money and act like a big shot.
	I said, this person actually did something.
	And I said, now, hand me my license.
	And he looked at me, and he went in his drawer, and he got my license, and he handed it back to me.
	That was the end of it.
	And I've never had a problem since.
	That's great.
	That's lovely.
	Okay.
	So...
	We're going to go and film around here, and I'd like to hear the explanation of the sword, and so let's do that.
	And then we're going to wrap this up, because your dogs need to go out, and all that kind of thing.
	And the lights are going down already, so we want to catch whatever filming we can outside as well.
	So if you can demonstrate the sword and tell me, again, how many greys you really think that you battled with and why you chose to battle with a sword.
	If you look around, you see brick walls.
	Bullets and brick walls, not a good thing.
	They really do some serious damage.
	It's not a very creative way to do interior decorating.
	Now, have you ever been in the military?
	Again, it's another story.
	Okay, that's the story that we were kind of grazed on, also when I talked to you last.
	Right.
	So, in some form or fashion, you actually have.
	Yes.
	Okay.
	And are you familiar with past lives as well, that notion?
	Okay.
	And do you feel that you've connected with any of yours?
	Yes.
	Connected out.
	Like, do I know what I was?
	Yeah, have you seen visions of the people coming in and out of the vortex here?
	No, nothing like that.
	Are you conscious that you've ever gone in and out of that vortex?
	Not yet.
	I mean, I've kind of been tempted a little bit, but I'm just afraid that I might get stuck somewhere.
	Okay.
	And I don't want to be sitting on the other side.
	But are you sure that you haven't?
	I mean, in your regressions, have they ever discovered that you went in and out of the vortexes here?
	Not that I'm aware of.
	Okay.
	All right.
	I would suggest that you have.
	Okay.
	Just for what it's worth.
	Now, go ahead and show us this sword and why you...
	Again, you can't use bullets.
	So the grays were here.
	I experimented with lots of different weapons.
	Okay, so they came here and they're in...
	Are you talking about this room or anywhere in the ranch?
	No, no, no.
	There's a master bedroom on the other side over here.
	Okay.
	And they've either pretty much...
	Landed, embarked, I don't know what you want to call it, in there.
	Okay.
	Or they've landed out on the area where the dogs are, where the bird is.
	To the point where the bird has actually developed a vocabulary to describe them.
	Really?
	Yeah.
	I mean, she calls them the little dark ones.
	Oh.
	And she says, bad, bad, bad.
	And usually, I mean, she's kind of like my Flintstones alarm system.
	Yeah.
	Because, I mean, the moment something weird happens, she starts screaming, John!
	She screams my name.
	You can hear her on the back of the property.
	That's how loud she is.
	She freaks out.
	She's really good at telling us something's going to happen or something's happening.
	Anyway, I started with nunchucks because I thought that'll work.
	Actually, they work pretty well.
	What's a nunchuck?
	I don't even know.
	It's a martial arts weapon.
	Okay.
	Two sticks with a chain together.
	Okay.
	Or put together with a leather cord.
	And they're a very effective ancient weapon.
	And they actually work pretty well because they're quiet and they can do some real damage.
	So, do you throw them at the alien?
	No, you just bop them with them.
	You hit them with them?
	Mm-hmm.
	Okay.
	What is the alien doing when you're hitting them or stabbing them?
	They're that close to you that you can do that?
	Well, see, the thing about it is that it's a bit strange, and that is that I had a very severe head injury in 1973, and I had some long-term damage to my skull as a result of it, and apparently the fear...
	You know, you always hear about people going through fear paralysis.
	It doesn't happen to me.
	And they don't know it a lot of times.
	And so I can just kind of pretend like I'm being affected.
	Oh, alright.
	And then when they come to try to lay hands, they get the big surprise.
	Oh, really?
	Yeah.
	So, I've experimented with a lot of things over the years.
	I mean, a can of hairspray with a butane lighter, not ready for that one.
	Okay, so is this at night when this is happening?
	Well, the one, the really severe...
	One that I was actually able to run one through with a sword on the patio out here, the porch, sun porch, whatever you want to call it.
	That actually happened in full daylight.
	It was about 5.45 p.m.
	and it was still sunny.
	So that wasn't at night.
	Okay, and the one you did with the sword when you were propelled to do that...
	Was that in defense of your dog that got injured, or was that...
	No, what happened, this is part of the same episode.
	I literally was walking through those doors to go out there to take the dogs out, and lo and behold, there was a gray right in front of me.
	And so I came back through the doors, grabbed the sword, and ran out there and just stabbed them and got them.
	And he didn't leave?
	Well, that was the thing.
	I think I kind of caught him off guard.
	And I mean, I literally ran the sword directly through the midsection and literally got so close that I was probably six inches, maybe eight inches away from the face.
	And I mean, I literally heard a hiss come out of this thing and I could actually smell it.
	And when I pulled the sword out to go back to try to take the head off, it just disappeared.
	But there was a big piece of tissue on the end of the sword from running him through.
	It was about the size of a grapefruit.
	A ruby red grapefruit.
	And a bunch of fluids came out and they kind of drooled out on the floor and they were on the door.
	And you sent me this documentation that says they've been tested and they basically have said that They don't match anything.
	Right.
	I mean, they don't match anything.
	And you shared this with a number of UFO researchers, right?
	I did.
	I tried to share it with a lot of people and I didn't receive a very good response.
	Why is that, do you think?
	I don't know.
	There's a lot of trolls out there.
	And I think a lot of jealousy.
	I think that, you know, a lot of people have been searching for absolute evidence and proof that extraterrestrials are here.
	Right.
	And probably a good part of that camp didn't like the fact that they're not warm and fuzzy.
	And then, you know...
	Another part of the camp just didn't like it because here's a guy who's a therapist and a social worker who's got a sword and he doesn't want any part of the situation and he's the guy lucky enough to actually have the proof.
	And so I don't know if you want to call that professional jealousy or something.
	I have no idea.
	But nobody wanted to believe it.
	And I think other people thought it was just too ridiculous a story.
	It's absurd.
	I mean, really, if you think about it, if somebody told me this, I'm not sure I'd believe them unless I knew them personally.
	But you had evidence.
	It was a lab, like a known lab, yeah?
	Yeah, it was in Grass Lakes, Michigan.
	Okay.
	And then he took the samples and he divided them up and prepared them professionally, scientifically, and sent them off to a number of universities.
	And he didn't tell them what they were.
	And so the universities took forever To get back to him.
	It probably took eight or nine months before we actually had any kind of word about it.
	And he kept saying, well, send me some more.
	And I'm like, no, you've got plenty.
	You just deal with what you've got.
	You handle your end of it, and I'll handle mine.
	And I told him, I said, if they come back and I happen to have some more, I'll stick it in the fridge and we'll go from there.
	That's why I have two fridges.
	Well, did you get more?
	Yeah, we got some more.
	And did you send it other places at all?
	No.
	It's not like you can look in yellow pages and aliens are us.
	Okay, but you did say you had Daryl Sims out here.
	He's a trustworthy guy.
	Well, Daryl Sims is the alien hunter.
	And he heard through the grapevine.
	And Daryl came out and he interviewed me.
	And...
	At the time, he seemed to be pretty supportive.
	Right.
	And then he actually went on coast to coast twice and introduced me and asked me to go ahead and kind of tell the information that I had some of it.
	And in fact, the very first time I went on there, George Noorie actually fell out of his chair on air.
	I mean, you could hear him go...
	Wow.
	Cool.
	And...
	I don't know.
	I mean, it was just another stop on the crazy train.
	Okay, so you went out there, Daryl saw the material, and I assume he wrote about it, possibly?
	Yeah, and he had told me that he was going to be on shows, and that he would ask me to be a guest, and so on and so forth.
	So I did a few things with him, and that was the end of it.
	I still know him.
	We still communicate.
	Sure.
	Honestly, there's a lot of people that just didn't want to touch this story.
	I mean, it's almost too big.
	It's too...
	It's absurd until you meet me.
	And I think people know, once they meet me, that there's no way somebody could tell this story and not be telling the truth.
	It's just...
	There's nothing in it for me.
	I'm not trying to do anything to get anything out of it.
	No doubt about it.
	Well, let's see.
	The other person that was here was, what's his name?
	Bigelow?
	Well, Bigelow, certainly.
	Well, talk about that a little bit, because he brought a crew out here and they spent days.
	Yeah, he didn't come out personally, but I spoke to him a number of times over the phone.
	Right.
	And what year was that?
	That had to be about 2010.
	Okay, not that long ago.
	And, you know, he said that he'd like to send out some investigators and asked my permission.
	He was very nice about it.
	And I said, okay, that sounds good.
	Anything we can do to get to the bottom of this thing.
	And I guess you're the guy that...
	Really knows a whole lot of bottom of things when it comes to, you know, this particular subject.
	So, cool.
	Set him out.
	So, two vans, or two vehicles, were detached from his Las Vegas location to come out here, and only one of them showed up, and the other one apparently couldn't get here, and it was the one with all the equipment.
	And no matter what they did, it couldn't get here.
	They even sent another vehicle to pick up all the materials and the machines and things that they wanted to use to test, and that one broke down.
	So finally, I guess they just took the vans with all the equipment and stuff back to Las Vegas, had them towed back there, and the one vehicle that had the investigators in it came, and they brought a video camera, and they brought a device to measure truthfulness and things like that.
	And they interviewed me.
	They interviewed Joyce, my wife.
	And they did some video.
	And that went on off and on for a number of days.
	You know, a few hours here, a few hours there.
	And then in between they'd call and ask me question after question after question after question.
	And then they'd ask me the same questions again.
	And we gave them the best information we could that we knew.
	But you don't know what they went off and did with it.
	Well, I mean, that was the thing that really bothered me, was that they had told me that when they got to the point where they had some results, that they would call me or they would send me a copy of the report.
	Well, checks in the mail.
	Never received it.
	And, you know, so we never got anything.
	What about George Knapp?
	He was here?
	No, George Knapp was never here.
	He never came here?
	Not that I'm aware of.
	Okay.
	But he investigated a ranch in, um...
	Skinwalker.
	Yeah.
	Right.
	Right.
	Which sounds a lot like this.
	Well, and we have actually had some communication with the same folks, and they actually made a visit out here.
	The Skinwalker Ranch owners, or you don't want to say who?
	The investigators.
	The investigators.
	And they interviewed us.
	And what happened to that?
	I think they just decided not to do anything with it.
	I don't know why.
	Okay.
	But, you know, nobody's ever said, you know, you guys are full of it and you're obviously making this up or something.
	Sure.
	I mean, everybody's always told us that they believed us.
	Right.
	And so we're of the opinion that nobody's ever done anything to show or prove or say anything other than just the trolls on the internet to say they didn't believe us.
	Okay, I know we're overdoing our extension here, but I do want to say, so you killed DeGray, stabbed DeGray with the sword.
	Can you pull the sword out of the sheath so that people can see what we're talking about?
	That's it.
	And are you able to get this on camera?
	And were you trained to use such a sword?
	Um, I wouldn't say that I was, you know, like a graduate of the Kung Fu Academy or anything like that, but I've invested some time.
	Okay, and when did you invest that time?
	When this was happening?
	After I learned that all this stuff, that I had to have an accurate weapon.
	I self-educated.
	Alright, and what year was that that you learned you had to have a weapon?
	About 1997.
	Long time.
	Been a while, yeah.
	I mean, I'm not like Bruce Lee or something.
	This isn't Enter the Dragon.
	But you're still to this day using it?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	Absolutely.
	How recently?
	A couple nights ago.
	A few nights ago.
	And did you, like, kill anything with it?
	Just never got...
	We had a gray in the bedroom with my wife, and it literally put...
	She wears a CPAP machine, a CPAP mask, and it literally went up and pinched off the hose to the point where she was turning blue.
	And I woke up because I could hear her gasping.
	Kidding.
	No.
	And so I always keep the sword pretty much around me.
	It's usually within reach.
	Okay.
	And grab the sword and it disappeared before I could do anything about it.
	It's sort of a, I don't know, it's a strange arrangement.
	I mean, sometimes it works and sometimes they get away.
	Right.
	Most of the time they get away.
	And didn't you say your brother also has battles with them?
	He has had, yeah, he's older than I am.
	He's a former Navy SEAL, and he's somebody that, he's had some problems.
	Okay, and has, you said that he actually took off the head of one, is that correct?
	He did, he did.
	And so, what happened in the head when he did that?
	I mean, did he save it?
	Does he have it, or whatever?
	Let's put it this way.
	There's more proof out there.
	There's more...
	Yeah, there's bodies.
	Okay, now have the military come here?
	Well, I mean, we have had representatives from different...
	Federal agencies that have been here.
	Do they tell you who they are?
	Well, I mean, it started out with the men in black literally walking right through my fence.
	The big gate that you came through?
	Yeah.
	Well, they didn't even bother to ask me to open it.
	They just literally walked right through it.
	When you say walked through it, were they tangible?
	Or did they come through it like you would a vortex?
	No, they came through it like They just opened it.
	They literally pulled up in a late model SUV, a GM product, dark color, got out, and they stood at the gate for a couple of seconds, and I happened to be cleaning a bunch of guns on a picnic table that was underneath my carport, and I looked at them and I wasn't so sure I wanted to let them in, and then before I had a chance to really make up my mind, they just walked right through.
	I mean, literally, it was like ghosts walking through a wall.
	They proceeded to walk up the driveway and confront me and tell me that I needed to keep my mouth shut and that I shouldn't be telling stories and that I shouldn't be acknowledging the things that happened on this ranch.
	And they told me that there would be dire consequences if I continued to say what I was saying.
	And were there two of them?
	There were two of them.
	And were they wearing dark glasses?
	And were they wearing black suits?
	Yes.
	Yeah?
	As...
	Stereotype, as that sounds.
	And did they seem...
	You know, because I can tell you that sometimes...
	I don't know if you...
	I get the feeling you never even heard my interviews.
	I haven't.
	I never heard...
	I had heard your name before.
	Okay.
	I've never seen...
	To this day, I've never seen one of your interviews.
	Okay.
	The reason I bring that up is because one of my witnesses, Dan Burish, said that they actually do take on dead bodies and inhabit them.
	That's exactly what they look like.
	Did they?
	They were pale...
	Almost the exact color of a corpse.
	And the thing about them was that their tissue, they look like they've never seen a day in the sun.
	Let's put it that way.
	And, you know, here we are in Arizona.
	So you had your guns at that point.
	Yeah, I had a whole table full of guns.
	Did they threaten you physically?
	No.
	Well, yeah.
	I mean, they didn't, like, say, I'm going to hurt you right this minute.
	But they indicated that if I continued to tell the story and to put the word out there, that, yeah, there was going to be consequences.
	And what year was that?
	1998.
	So like a year after you realized that you had to have physical force to stop these things?
	Yeah.
	I mean, I had already begun to have physical hand-to-hand.
	Had you been on coast-to-coast at that point?
	No.
	But you were on coast-to-coast with Art Bell, yeah?
	No, I was on coast-to-coast with George Norrie.
	Oh, with George Norrie.
	Right.
	So when was that?
	What year was that?
	That was, well, twice.
	That was once in 2010, or 2009, and once in, I think it was 20, I want to say 2011 or 2012.
	Okay, and where did things go from there?
	Did you have a lot of visitors because of that show?
	No.
	I mean, there had been an ongoing flow of people just contacting me and saying, hey, I want to come out there and meet you and see what's going on.
	Right.
	And an awful lot of people just wanted to come out and take a picture.
	You know, sort of like a souvenir, you know, like...
	And you said to me that they couldn't sleep overnight here.
	Well, that was the thing, and that was that we've had people literally run out of here in the middle of the night, scared to death, you know, in their underwear with, like, their clothes, and, you know, like, literally just freak out and sprint.
	Yeah.
	Do you feel that your dogs protect you at all?
	They do, but they do it in a different way than one would think.
	It's not because of the fact that they're menacing.
	Right.
	It's because they love me so much.
	And so they're totally dedicated to supporting me and the fact that they know I love them and that I support them and take care of them.
	And...
	They'd give their lives for me.
	I mean, not even, wouldn't think twice about it.
	Well, you've already had one dog.
	I've had three dogs.
	Three dogs do that.
	Yes.
	With aliens, fighting aliens?
	Yes, each time.
	Same scenario.
	And they killed them.
	And it got to the point, what happens is that once the dogs bite one of these creatures, there is some kind of secretion, either in the blood or in the tissue or something.
	And within about a week...
	They shrivel up and they just die.
	And I mean, it's as if somebody almost freeze-dried them.
	It's horrible.
	And so I'm absolutely dedicated to making sure that they can't do that anymore.
	I don't want them.
	I have no problem fighting them.
	To me, it was almost like an indoor sport.
	So you mean you're not allowing your dogs to fight them?
	Absolutely not.
	Oh, really?
	No.
	No.
	That's very grave of you.
	Well, it's not grave.
	I don't want my dogs to die.
	What about your horses?
	We have had three horses that perished.
	But what I mean is, do they try to defend you?
	Do they warn you?
	Do they do anything?
	No.
	No?
	No.
	The only time that I've had an animal, a horse, that tried to do something had nothing to do with an alien threat.
	It was a weather threat.
	And I had a thoroughbred that I've rescued that I got washed away in a flash flood and the horse literally jumped over a fence and came and dragged me.
	I was unconscious and literally dragged me out of the water in the mud and saved my life.
	That's incredible.
	Okay, you've got someone that wants to write a book.
	Is that right?
	Going to help you write a book?
	Theoretically.
	I mean, you know, your interviewing me the first time over the radio has sort of been a Just a huge thing, because people from all over the world have contacted me, and they have said, what do you need?
	And I've explained, and I've answered all their questions, everybody that contacted me.
	And, you know, I've had new legal representation.
	I have several people that have stepped forward and said that they really want to be part of the story.
	And, you know, if that becomes a screenplay in a movie or something like that, they want to be part of the whole thing.
	And, you know, I'm very grateful.
	I'm very gratified to know that there are such wonderful people out there, and they're so selfless that they would actually come and volunteer their services.
	Sure.
	And, you know, I actually have one coming next week, you know, from all the way from New York.
	Excellent.
	So...
	Well, before I go there, let me just wrap this part of it up.
	So you've killed a number of greys, and this continues to this day.
	Maybe I should say not necessarily killed, but if they were human beings, they'd definitely be dead.
	They're mortally wounded.
	I think that's probably a better way to describe it.
	And I should really put this out there, and that is...
	That was never my intention toward these creatures until they used deadly force against me.
	Sure.
	I mean, they absolutely meet the Arizona state statutes for representing a deadly threat.
	And so for me to respond to them, it is a very legally acceptable response on my part.
	It's both logical and rational.
	Okay.
	Now, the thing is...
	Other representatives of the military or the, what I would call, black projects, secret space program, have they come here in other guises aside from the men in black?
	Yes.
	And have you been told not to talk about it?
	They've told me that they'd prefer I didn't.
	I mean, they haven't absolutely said, if you do this, this is what's going to happen to you.
	But...
	They felt that when the time was right, they said I would know it.
	And that time never seems to arrive.
	And I'm just at the point where...
	In my heart of hearts, I thought it was time.
	I had to just make a decision finally that this story needed to get told and I prayed on it and I sat and talked with my wife about it and then I met you.
	And I trust you.
	Thank you.
	Thank you for that.
	You were the right person.
	Thank you.
	I want to say that, you know, just to wrap this up right here, and then we're going to branch out.
	I want to thank you for your service to humanity.
	Thank you.
	And I mean that.
	Thank you.
	I appreciate that.
	I also want to say that I have a theory that Tommy Hawksblood has been regressing you and working with you.
	Now, I don't want to invade your privacy, and if you don't want me to say this on camera, I won't.
	But...
	Can you say, is this true or not?
	And if you do want to talk about it, is he at liberty to talk about that at all or not?
	He's at liberty to be responsible for whatever he wants to say.
	Okay.
	I'm not trying to hide anything.
	The only reason that I'm holding back at all is because I know for one thing that if we began to unravel this particular thread that we'd be here for days.
	Yes.
	And I just don't think it's necessarily the right time to do that.
	It could happen in the future.
	It's not that I'm trying to be secretive.
	I just don't know that we're quite there yet.
	Okay.
	Okay.
	Fair enough.
	Okay, so at this point, we're going to...
	Actually, it's getting really dark, really fast.
	So let's go get the dogs.
	Let's go outside.
	Let's shoot some footage and do what we can, okay?
	Very good.
	Thank you so much.
	Oh, you're very welcome.
	When you let them out, I don't want to bother them.
	Hi.
	Hi, hi, hi.
	Hi guys, everybody out.
	Cold, come on, cold!
	Doesn't that one get too hot?
	They don't all go out at the same time.
	Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh.
	Okay, okay, okay.
	Hi, hi, hi.
	Hi, hi, hi.
	Hi, hi.
	So the vortex...
	It's back by the barn?
	It's behind the barn.
	Behind the tack rod.
	Oh, and could you film the marks on the dog?
	So this is what we're talking about?
	That's Chandler.
	Chandler?
	The yellow lab?
	He's part lab and part Pyrenees.
	Oh.
	Probably all part of a massive vortex that surrounds the entire process.
	But you're gonna have concentrations within it.
	Stronger than others, yes.
	Did you see that?
	There it goes again.
	Yeah, I see it.

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