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June 20, 2012 - Project Camelot
42:09
PROJECT CAMELOT : JIM TRAFICANT - FRAMED
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Transcription by CastingWords
Transcription by CastingWords There's one hell of a guy.
It's pretty easy going.
Alright.
And, you know, I'm going to be very sort of relaxed with you.
Oh, you are?
I don't have...
You mean at times you're caustic and threatening?
Well, you know, it's a little more formal sometimes.
This is going to be pretty relaxed.
I want you to know that I have devoured some of the greatest interview people in the country.
Okay.
I wouldn't be a bit surprised after hearing you speak.
Okay, why don't you introduce yourself and tell me who you are.
I'm Regis Philbin.
Thank you for having me.
No, because, you know, actually...
I have to figure out why I'm interviewing you.
Yeah, I don't fit into that.
You don't fit in a whole lot.
But in a way, I think you're going to find out eventually you do.
But because you don't know you do, I'm not sure where you fit in.
Is it the old you don't know you figure it out, Floyd?
Okay, Carrie.
How are you?
Real good.
One of the rules of doing an interview is you can't stop and say hello to people when they walk by.
I know that, but then the people walk by and they say hello.
I know, but you can't do that.
Well, when I am doing it, you have to explain that this is a different interview that you're doing.
Yeah, all right.
Well, we'll tell the people.
This is more or less predicated on the stop the interview and say hello, Ploy.
Okay, good.
You want to hear something really interesting?
Yes.
My little grandson, he's seven years old now, he was playing basketball and he had the ball, you know, and they're trying to coach these little young kids.
And they said, you know, when you have the ball, you know, young Johnny, you either shoot it or you pass it.
And he looked at him, he says, you mean the old shoot or pass, Ploy?
Well, anyway, I know that's off subject, but go ahead and ask me your inquiring questions from your inquiring mind.
And if you get abrasive with me, I'll embarrass you so bad.
You'll be able to walk out under a closed door with a top hat on.
Alright, alright.
Okay, go ahead.
First of all, I want you to tell us your name.
I'm Jim Travigan, former congressman from the state of Ohio.
The number one target of American Israeli Public Affairs Committee years ago.
They put me in prison because they couldn't beat me with a gun and basically destroyed my life over it.
And if I have to look back, I'd have to say that they were pretty successful.
I'm the congressman that brought John Demiuk home from Israel who was convicted of being Ivan the Terrible and exonerated him from that crime.
And once I was put back in prison, put in prison, put away with no one to give the man a hand, they just railroaded them through some other ordeal in Germany so they could clean up their historical record of the crimes they committed against an American citizen.
So that's me.
And how many years were you in prison?
Seven and a half years.
That's really incredible.
And your prison story is also a really incredible story.
So you were a renegade congressman, correct?
I don't know about the renegade congressman.
I was a congressman that didn't buy into that malarkey down there, those two parties, and go along to get along.
I questioned the system.
I did what I had to do to help my area that had almost 25 percent unemployment.
When I had gone into Congress and I left, it was about 7%.
I did what I had to do.
I changed quite a few laws, made some impact in the Internal Revenue Reform Bill of 98 by changing the burden of proof in a civil tax case.
That was a landmark thing that Robert Novak, the old conservative TV man, said to me, Travigan, if you get this done, you will have made a monumental achievement in the Congress.
He predicted it would be hard because the IRS Threatened that if the trafficking burden of proof change was in the bill, they'd recommend a veto to President Clinton.
I finally got it in the bill, and the rest is history, and we've had great success from it.
Now, I haven't been there for some 10 years.
Who knows what they've done with that?
They may have watered it down already.
Okay.
All right.
I want to back up a little bit and talk about Ivan the Terrible, because that little story about how you were sitting in your office and they came in and so on and so forth, I think that's a good story, and I think it's one that people should hear, because I don't think very many people know about that.
And in a certain sense, your story about, in essence, the Israeli lobby...
And what's coming down in the United States because of the influence of that lobby.
It's something people don't talk a whole lot about and I'm happy to do a video about that.
What I'd like to do is have you talk about your Ivan the Terrible story.
Let's start off with that one.
Well, when I first became aware of the demoniac, that is the Ivan the Terrible, I had an issue from Treblinka concentration camp in Poland.
I was in my office, and at the time, in my office, there was a three-room suite, and you had the reception area in the middle, and my office was in the right, and the staff office to the left.
I heard some conversation outside, and what caught my attention was that I heard someone say, well, he's not in, the congressman's not in, he's over on the House floor, and we don't know when he's going to be back.
I never had that happen because I was always in for anybody to come into my office.
So I called out on the phone.
I said, you know, what's going on out there?
And he said, you know, be cool, sir.
We'll get in touch with you.
Real, you know, quiet, sort of like cloak and dagger stuff.
And one of my staff came in and says, don't let anybody know you're here.
We told you're on the house floor.
It's the Demonyuk family from Cleveland, Ohio.
It's the son and the son-in-law.
The father's been convicted of being Ivan the Terrible of Treblinka, murdering over a million Jews at the Treblinka concentration camp.
And he said, so you don't want to get involved with that.
I said to them, I said, why are they here?
And he said, well, they said they've been to all of their Congressmen, and they've been to every Congress office in the United States of America, and every Senator's office.
So they went to their own Congressmen from the Cleveland area, they went to the two Ohio Senators, but in addition, they went to every office.
And when they went to every office, they wouldn't even get past the door.
And they said, and then I could hear them saying this, you know, we didn't want to come in here and talk to Jim, we know the government hates Jim.
Because I had defeated the Justice Department in the RICO trial in 1983.
And had a bullseye on my back from day one.
So the bottom line is they said, we have nowhere to turn.
We know that Jim's a stand-up guy.
We want at least somebody to listen to us.
Say, we never had a parking ticket.
We can't talk to our elected representatives.
So I called in my chief of staff at the time and I said, send them in.
And he said this almost word for word.
He said, if you meet with these two people, He said, when the press is done with you, you'll never be a congressman again.
You'll lose your seat over this.
And I was one of the most popular congressmen in the country, and one year led the entire congress, 435 in total votes, with an opponent.
I received more votes than five U.S. senators that run statewide.
He said, you'll lose your seat over this.
I said, send them in.
When they come in, one thing the press didn't say was the first thing I said to them.
They introduced themselves, John Dominick Jr.
and Ed Nishnick, the son-in-law.
I said, you know, my pleasure to meet you.
I believe your congressman should have received you, and I believe that every American should be able to talk to their elected leaders when they have a problem.
However, I want you to know from the start here, your father, your father-in-law, has been convicted of most heinous crimes.
If he's guilty, I can go over there and pull the switch myself.
So, tell me your situation.
It basically brought forward the fact that they believed their father was innocent, strongly innocent, and they had some information there that could support that to those ends.
I decided to go ahead and look into the demonic manner, on the strength of this family, whom everybody had just thrown aside.
Hoping that, you know, either validate the fact that what occurred in the courtroom or pursue the matter to at least satisfy that his family received some access and justice from their own government.
At that point, the newspaper article said, Trafficking supports Nazi mass murder.
A powerful attorney out of New York on national TV said, Trafficking is an anti-Semite, the number one anti-Semite in the world, for even looking at this matter.
I was then labeled by all of the different Israeli organizations, Jewish organizations, as an anti-Semite placed on target lists.
And wasn't it Alan Dershowitz?
Wasn't that the name?
It was Dershowitz.
Dershowitz that made that statement.
Now, at this particular point, Even maybe those articles started to help because before long the family and I came up with two documents.
These documents were interviews that our government agents from the Office of Special Investigation made over in Berlin, Germany, with one SS, former SS Nazi guard Otto Horn.
The documents were three pages, typewritten.
They were signed.
They were not copies.
They were originals.
And they were sent to Washington.
They were stamped, received in Washington by the agency chief.
They weren't copies.
And what they said was that these two agents and the Prosecutor Moskovitz in America went over.
Rand, Dougherty, and Prosecutor Moskovitz.
And they showed Otto Horn these eight photographs of Caucasian males in their early 20s in uniform, of which Dominic's picture was one of them.
It says that he looked at the photographs at length, both of these independent reports, and said in brackets, one person looked familiar, but it wasn't Dominic.
And he failed to identify anyone in the first eight photographs.
They then said that they had taken the eight photographs and put them in a stack with Deminguk's picture on top, highly suggestive, and placed it on the table in front of them, and then showed them eight photographs of Caucasian males older in uniform, photographs, of which he wouldn't have known them, but to see if there were any similarities of later age he could identify.
And it even says he was looking back and forth at the suggestive picture of Demonyuk on top of the pile and was unable to identify anyone.
Now, I look at the court transcript at the denaturalization trial in Cleveland where Otto Horn offered testimony via video Into that process, where the citizenship of Dominique was stripped.
Here's what Otto Horn testified to, now in court, that when they showed him the eight photographs, he immediately recognized Ivan, Dominique.
And when they showed him the other eight photographs, he said, even at an older age, how could you not know Ivan?
That basically sealed his fate.
He was sent over to Israel to supposedly get a fair trial, although very few people know this.
There were so many people interested in it.
They moved his trial to a theater so more people could come in and see what a Nazi killer looked like.
He was convicted of war crimes, having gassed a million Jews at Treblinka, and he was sentenced to death and was in a prison cell.
Well, when I got those two documents, it was evident to me that our government had suborned perjury, violated the civil rights and human rights of an individual beyond reason, and had basically committed murder, attempted murder.
This man was going to be put to death for an act of which he was innocent.
So I immediately initiated an investigation through Freedom of Information Act requests, FOIAs.
And whenever anybody got them in the government, they'd throw them in a wastebasket.
And everything come back, classified, classified, classified, classified.
The old shield the government uses to cover their lives, in many cases.
Well, we finally got together the fairment and everything.
We did some brainstorming and decided.
Was there ever a court process involving anybody who had been at Treblinka concentration camp in Poland?
And bingo!
We find a Ukrainian like Demonyuk who came to America in Chicago by the name of Fyodor Fedorenko.
Now Fedorenko was tried for war crimes in America, was acquitted.
Fedorenko was finally so relieved he went back to visit his family in the Ukraine.
He was picked up by the KGB, tried in the Soviet Union, and executed.
I'm sure our government had its fingerprints all over the demise of Fedorenko.
But the bottom line was it opened up a window for some process to look into the activities of the Cherblinka concentration camp.
So I send a Freedom of Information Act request, a FOIA, on Fedorenko.
I submit this FOIA request on Fedorenko, and everybody throws a trafficking request in the chapter file 13, wastebasket.
But the State Department is so big, the right hand don't know what the left hand is doing, they send me back a little packet.
And then it was two telegrams.
From years ago, during the 40s.
Back in those days, we didn't have internet like we have now, instant communication.
So we had one of our agents over there who was requesting information about Fedorenko and Treblinka, and he sent it to the State Department.
And the State Department, they send the telegram back saying, you know, look at the Russian archives for the name of these four people who offer testimony at Treblinka.
And then it says at the bottom, be advised we have another 100 pages in file.
Stop.
Well, I immediately got on the phone.
And I got a woman over there, and I don't want to mention her name, but I do remember her name.
And she seemed to be a woman that liked me, or thought highly of me.
And I said, look, this man's been dead a number of years.
This isn't classified.
I want those 100 pages.
And she said, very calmly, she says, I'll get them for you.
They were sent in the mail to me.
Now, when he got them in the mail, there were 17 people that testified in this process about Treblinka.
The four who were on the telegrams were four of those 17 names.
All of them testified that Ivan the Terrible was completely different than John Demonych.
Demonych was about six feet, blond hair, young, The true Ivan had black hair, much taller, long scar on neck, and he was nine years older.
And they all knew his name.
He was identified as Ivan Marchenko.
So now, in addition to that, one of these witnesses identified and Stated that when shown a photograph of two Nazi guards, he was able to identify their names.
And in looking at that photograph, he said the tall guard on the right, the small guard on the right with the gun is Takchuk.
And the tall guard on the left is the man the prisoners feared the most, Ivan Grozny, Ivan Marchenko.
And it's not a picture of them in here.
Now I am armed with this information.
Congress wouldn't hold a hearing.
Sixth Circuit Court in Cincinnati wouldn't accept the evidence.
I went on the House floor and I says, Ivan the Terrible is not John Demonday.
There's a man named Ivan Marchenko.
He's older, nine years older.
Maybe he's still alive somewhere over in Europe.
He said, but you have the wrong man over there.
That night the Justice Department came out with a statement and said, there were two Ivans.
I mean, these lying bastards.
This man's rights were shredded.
The Bill of Rights should stand like a monument, a mountain next to an American citizen.
It shouldn't be set aside and scrapped.
And God, here we have a government agency to destroy the family's life, and everybody said, well, trafficking, why did they do it?
It was very simple.
They weren't making any arrests.
Now they have this big arrest.
And their funds are going to keep coming.
Because their funds are going to be cut from this Office of Special Investigation.
This Nazi hunting group.
All this evidence was sent over to Israel.
So the family asked me to go over to Israel with him.
And I went to Israel at my own expense.
When I got there, I was sort of like a rock star.
Everybody knew who I was.
All the newspaper and everything.
Here comes this congressman.
Who made this hullabaloo, who causes great controversy.
I even had a bodyguard.
He was a Jewish fellow over there, an Israeli, and he was a great guy, a great friend of mine.
And he even said to me, I followed this thing, he says, I don't think he's Ivan either.
I said, I know he's not Ivan.
So to make a long story short, while I'm there, I get a call that Brian Gumbel would like to interview me on a Today show.
And I had a t-shirt on like I have now.
And I just got up.
And I go outside, and they do this interview, and I'm outside, and I basically say to him, you know, if Israel puts this man to death on the strength of the evidence I submitted to their Supreme Court, they're going to lose $25 billion a year from the American taxpayers.
He said, what do you mean?
They only get 3 billion dollars.
I said, Brian, only 3 billion dollars.
That's 5,000 dollars for every man, woman and child in Israel.
And that's only one of the 13 appropriation spending bills.
I said, when you look at loans, loans converted to grants, grants, economic assistance, military assistance, trade compacts, I say they get in excess of 20 billion dollars every year.
Thank you Congressman, thank you Congressman.
That night, in my room in Jerusalem, my hotel room, I got a call from the Israeli Supreme Court.
It said John Demonych would be released and delivered to me at the Tel Aviv airport the following day.
He came to that airport amidst a lot of opposition, people chanting and demanding that he stay.
And there's only two times I can recall saying I'm a congressman.
I told the captain of that plane, the U.S. congressman, I'm here to take Irish citizen home.
And they have put me in the first row, first class with him.
He wouldn't leave my side.
And we have five trained karate experts, lethal experts, with us as bodyguards.
And I brought them home.
When we got into New York, I called a press conference.
Everybody went to the press conference and I ducked out with them in a small plane and got them home safely.
The thing is, here's the amazing thing about it.
When we landed in New York, almost at that time, the Sixth Circuit Court of Cincinnati issued a press release and said, a tragic but honest mistake by our government.
None of those criminals in the Justice Department were ever even investigated.
They wouldn't let an innocent man die.
Suborn perjury.
Violated civil rights at the maximum level.
But it was an honest mistake.
And the evidence we got came from the Justice Department.
They had that evidence.
Right.
The bottom line is, and it taught everybody a lesson.
Now, as soon as I was convicted of a crime in 2002, they took Demonych back on another charge.
Israel wouldn't even charge him.
They didn't want any controversy, so they arranged for it to go to Germany.
They convicted him of some charge, and he now died over their natural death.
Because they're trying to clean up the historical aspects of what they did, how they suborned perjury, how they destroyed an American and just threw him aside like a piece of meat.
Who's he?
He's just an auto worker from Cleveland.
He's just some hunky from Cleveland.
What has happened to us?
I said on the House floor, I said, now, when does sensitivity be a reason for waiting to Bill of Rights?
When has a case become so sensitive that an American's rights are abrogated?
That certainly, like my staff had told me, you meet with this family and you're gone.
Because I already was very much a targeted individual.
I was targeted from day one by Israel because I didn't accept their money.
I told them, you keep your money, I'll keep my vote.
Oh right, they tried to bribe you, right?
When I was a candidate, yes.
So, what happened?
How did you get framed at that point?
You got thrown in jail and framed.
Well, there were seven people that testified that they bribed me.
All seven of them were guilty of big crimes and all of their crimes were exonerated by saying they bribed me.
Four of them have since recanted.
However, the two big national TV charges against me, both were dropped and never brought to trial because both of the individuals involved admitted that they were pressured to lie.
So their cases were dropped from the trial.
That makes it a real interview.
Ah, yeah.
Makes it a real life interview, isn't it?
Yeah, it is.
People here in the background.
So, the bottom line is, look, they, I thought about it, they moved real fast.
And what were the real factors involved?
Because now even the legal experts are saying, how could a man be convicted of crimes with not one piece of physical evidence?
In other words, everything anybody said, they couldn't prove that they did anything with me.
The government said they made no tapes.
Imagine this, no tape recordings.
People said that they bribed me.
They couldn't even show a phone record where I talked to them.
Hear me!
And this is the only chink in the armor that they have.
I tricked one of their young agents, because they didn't give me anybody to cross-examine, but the young agent said he took the documents to Quantico for testing.
And when I cross-examined them, I said, how long were you in the employ of the FBI when you delivered those documents?
He said three weeks.
So in other words, he knew nothing about the case.
They were afraid to put anybody on that witness stand that I could cross-examine.
The judge from the previous trial said, trafficking is crazy, crazy like a fox.
Be careful.
Careful the witnesses you put before him.
He was a born attorney.
Born, even though I wasn't an attorney.
He says, he'll impeach your witnesses in a heartbeat.
I know that's what he said because I had a whistleblower send me a 302.
And you can read between the lines, because 302 is when the FBI meets with somebody.
Well, they went and met with the judge about my style, no less.
They got my first trial transcripts and put them in the office of the new judge, and were studying my style.
Can you believe this?
Then, they passed a new rule in Ohio, and I was tried by a jury from the northern and western part of the state.
No one from my congressional district.
Was eligible to serve on the jury.
Imagine that.
And the Sixth Circuit Court upheld it.
Well, naturally, I embarrassed them in the Dominique case.
But now, having said that, this young FBI agent, I said to him, how many fingerprints, because the newspapers had fingerprints and tapes and all this evidence.
I said, how many fingerprints were on those 1,100 documents?
He said, none.
He's reading a report.
He says, how many partial prints were there?
None.
How many latent prints of any suspicious prints from the forensic experts?
None.
And here's where I tricked them.
I said, did you take the audio tapes or did somebody else take the audio tapes?
He said, what audio tapes?
There were no audio tapes.
Now watch this.
I said, who told you there were no audio tapes made of me in a six-year investigation costing $15 million with over 250 federal agents on and about the time that the World Trade Center and the Pentagon were under attack?
He said, the prosecutor.
I said, is he here in the room?
He said, yes.
I said, point to him and describe what he's wearing.
Now, whistleblowers have told me, and I can't prove it, they burned boxes and tapes.
They had no evidence.
When did you ever hear of a crime like this?
You have a congressman.
They didn't make any tapes on it.
Six-year investigation.
Now, experts around the country are saying this is a great travesty, and because of his politics and the phenomenon of this man, they had to get rid of him for whatever reason, and this was an orchestrated case of mal-justice, second to none.
But, when you have a total press, a unanimity against you, You're out there all by yourself.
It's tough.
It's tough to prevail.
They had a jury there.
There's no way.
Jesus Christ couldn't have won that jury.
Couldn't have won that trial.
Okay, but you went down for how many years?
I was sentenced for eight and a half years.
I did seven and a half years.
And some of that you actually, you chose to be in the hole, as you call it.
Well, in the first place where I was, in the first prison, there was about 50% illegal immigrants.
And I was the congressman who passed on the House floor, although the Senate never approved it.
I passed a bill on the House floor, an amendment.
That would take 10,000 of our soldiers overseas that were going to dinner in Tokyo and theater in Italy and for lunch in France, spending their money overseas, to be brought back home and put on our borders and stop illegal immigration.
And one of the counselors there said to me, he said he will never admit this.
He said, actually, just like this, my mother's your biggest fan.
She watches you all the time.
She just loves you.
He says, I want to give you a heads up.
The reason you're put here, 50% of these people are illegal immigrants.
He said, watch yourself.
They want you to get hurt.
Watch yourself.
Well, I was sleeping with one eye open, so one of the first things I did is orchestrated some situations where they had to put me in the hole, separate me.
I did it in months, six, seven months in the hole.
Incredible.
Yeah.
Then I went to a penitentiary where I stayed for a little while in the hole, then I was shipped to what they call gladiator school in upstate New York, a very dangerous place.
And it was up there where I met the son of John Gotti, and John Gotti asked to meet with me, and John Gotti said, don't take any medication.
This is the son that you're here seeing about on TV. He said, my dad, John Gotti, you know, the Dapper Dan, he said he come to prison, Dapper Don, and he said, 23 months later, Jim, he said his jaw rotted and fell off his face when he died.
He said, now, that was pretty accelerated.
He said, don't take medication.
You know, the amazing thing about it, Kerry, is about a week or two after that, I get a call from the medical department.
I go down and they said, I have a corkscrew aorta.
So twisted, they labeled it corkscrew.
And they said, I could die any minute.
And they wanted to give me medication.
I said, when did you discover this corkscrew aorta?
Because I was an athlete at the University of Pittsburgh and a ball player and all that.
And I had all the kind of medical records.
No one ever said anything.
He said, well, when you come in, we took an x-ray.
I said, that's six months ago, and you're telling me I have a corkscrew aorta now?
You're not giving me a damn aspirin.
Listen, it blew up so loud, okay?
They had the war, and they had everybody in there, psychiatrists, everybody, right?
You ain't giving me an aspirin.
Three o'clock that morning I got tapped and woken from my sleep and they put me in a plane and sent me to Rochester, Minnesota, where they took an x-ray and said, well, you don't really have a corkscrew in order.
I firmly believe if I was taking medication I wouldn't be sitting here.
I'd be dead now.
I agree with you.
And they never expected me, I think, to survive that prison sentence.
I did more time than people who were murderers.
And in tough places.
I didn't go to country clubs like some of the other politicians.
But the bottom line is this.
I did survive.
And they're still concerned about my voice.
Right.
Because I was getting and developing help and following.
Because people trusted me.
And when I come out for Demonic and brought a man home from death row, my credibility was through the roof.
And I've learned quite a bit.
And I honestly believe that one of the reasons they moved so fast, because I didn't think they wanted to when I looked at the way they were proceeding, they weren't really ready to do it.
They were just loading up to get me, right?
Because I believe I'm starting to get information about 9-1-1.
You see, the speech I made on the House floor infuriated the Congress.
I said, Congress has got to look in the mirror.
Congress is the cause of this terrorist strike.
I said, our one-sided, unobjective handling of the Middle East has made enemies, and they're now sending back to us some of the violence to give us a taste for our involvement over there.
We've been one-sided over in the Middle East.
We haven't been fair, and we've brought this upon ourselves.
Oh, they were furious at my statement.
Next thing you know, bang!
Headlines, traffic and this and this and this.
And my voice basically taken away and I'm busy meeting the challenge again of the United States Justice Department.
But I'm very proud of one thing.
In 1983, There is an American who stood up against the Justice Department.
And the only American in history to ever defeat the Justice Department in a RICO trial, pro se without being an attorney, full jury verdict is Jim Travigan.
I'm damn proud of it.
Because see, it's our country, not these bastards in Washington.
And the last thing I want to say to you, and I said this to a lot of people and they maybe don't believe it.
When I was elected to Congress, I didn't like Congress.
I didn't trust Congress.
I never did.
Didn't trust government.
Okay?
And each day I was in Congress.
It reaffirmed my position.
Those people were scared of their shadow.
They go along, get along.
Their main job is to get reelected.
And no one's going to rock the boat.
No one's going to be a gym traveler.
Because you learn not to be.
And I think that's the main thing about it.
That I was able to stand there.
I mean, my life has been ruined and they go back to my family after and threaten to indict my wife and my daughter so she surrenders most of the little pension that I had.
I mean, they completely destroyed me.
But you know what?
I'm still alive and they can all go to hell and they better be careful.
Lightning can strike.
Okay, tell me one thing.
I'm not telling you anymore.
I'm sick and tired.
Tell me one thing, and that is, what's your next move?
Do you have your next move planned?
I have a book out, America's Last Minute Man, and no bookstore will take it.
Well, I'll take it.
My publisher was here and he only had eight with him.
Alright, I'll put it on our online store.
He's out of New York.
America's Last Minute Man.
I'll make you a bestseller.
Okay.
America's Last Minute Man.
Alright, you send me a link.
You've got to give me your card, yes.
Send me a link and we'll put it on our site.
People will buy it because I can guarantee you after this interview they'll be in.
Okay.
But now I'm doing a book, I'm about halfway through, because that's just a compilation of my little one-minute speeches.
And I gave one in there about Lorena Bobbitt.
But let me give you a little one now that might be in line with something that might concern you.
Because everybody here is talking about the CIA, the dreaded CIA. And I made a small speech, because they didn't like giving me time.
They didn't know what I was going to say.
Believe me.
So it was a debate on the budget for the CIA. And the speech I made became a television ad for CNN and a full page ad for CNN in the Los Angeles Times.
Now you go back in the archives and look it up and you'll see a full page with the big dome and this small little speech made by Jim Trafficking, Democrat Ohio.
Here's what it said.
We learned about Saddam Hussein's invasion of Kuwait on CNN. We learned about the collapse of the Berlin Wall on CNN. We learned about the implosion of the Soviet Union on CNN. Why do we need the CIA? Let's fire the CIA and hire CNN. Now everybody's making all these fancy speeches, right?
This thing resonated like a shockwave around the country because it got people thinking.
It looked funny, but listen to this.
Here's all this big billion dollar apparatus.
They don't know the Soviet Union is going to fall apart.
They don't know that Saddam Hussein is going to invade Kuwait.
They don't know the Berlin Wall's collapsing.
The turmoil in those countries.
No reports.
Yeah, but that's no reports.
You know that's a facade because half the time they're causing it.
They're planning it.
There's no doubt about it.
Listen, but the CIA is a bunch of bungling damn idiots.
Travagan is the one that brought forward the fact that they were dropping the leaflets in Nicaragua, teaching people how to kill.
They said nonsense, Travagan's not American.
Then Travagan said, you, the CIA, have mined the harbors of Nicaragua down there.
No truth to it, no truth at all.
Then documents were found that said they did.
And Travagan is the one that said, you're lying about Pan Am 103, because I got that confidential report.
And that is what happened to 103.
They know it.
And I, honest to God, think that I was separated at that time, prematurely.
They wanted to get me.
But I don't think they'd have moved on me so fast if it weren't for 911.
They knew, because I'm sure they had my phone tapped all those years, all my phones, that I started to get calls about 911, and I didn't mention what they were, and I didn't mention the names.
Because I can't verify it.
But I was starting to get information on very powerful people who were involved and made millions of dollars on illegal arms sales to terrorist nations such as Al-Qaeda and others.
We armed them.
They got those weapons from America.
And they came from, and there's people that made millions of dollars.
And the amazing thing about it, the only thing I will say is this.
I found it amazing that shortly after I was in prison, not too much long, some of these people end up resigning and leaving the service that they haven't been offered for a long time.
But they have covered up an awful lot of crimes.
Our CIA has got us involved in things and it's ridiculous.
There are a bunch of bungling nincompoops, quite frankly.
And I think that their actions, and my statement on the Mideast was exactly it.
We've taken sides over there so much, the Arab community hates us, and they're starting to, how else can they fight?
They don't have missiles.
They're like the old Indians.
And you know, when I was in art school, I call prison art school, I did a lot of reading.
And one of the great Americans I read about was an American by the name of Geronimo.
Geronimo and his little band of defying Indians, 37 of them, only 15 of them were warriors.
He was on the run from the American cavalry, the American army, the 7th cavalry, 7th army.
And he's up in the mountains out there, somewhere in Arizona, just drinking the leech water and eating the leeches, the little lizards, there was nothing for them to eat.
His little kids all had fevers and his warriors were all wounded and they came to him, the Apache scouts came to him and said, look, if you go to Florida to a reservation, we'll bring you back in a year and you'll have all of this in your own reservation and you'll all be healthy.
And Geronimo said, My warriors are all injured.
My kids and women are fevered and sick.
You take all of them, but I'll stay here and I fight.
And I'm going to tell you something.
I can now understand why, in World War II, when our soldiers were jumping out of planes, why they were shouting Geronimo.
There's one hell of a guy.
Bottom line was they wouldn't accept it.
Because of the problems of this small band, Geronimo went to Florida and Geronimo never left Florida.
They lied to him and he died in Florida.
And that's about the size of this bullshit government.
We've had a lot of incidents like that.
So, in essence, you know, it's been a hell of a situation.
I will say this to you.
They keep calling me out to speak.
And if I speak to greater and greater numbers, I'm going to be as much proud as there was on the House floor with the speech and debate clause.
The only difference is they can come in and revoke my probation and put me back in prison.
If that happens, Carrie, I'm going to put a curse on you.
Oh, please don't.
This is quite an interview I've given.
Thank you.
I want to tell you something.
I'm having you on my radio show, and I'm going to give you a place to speak, okay?
And I'm going to recommend that you get your own radio show.
How's that?
You'll have a hard time doing that.
I can't even get my books into a bookstore.
In the 90s, American Israeli Public Affairs Committee, AIPAC, fired one of their prominent staff, a woman.
She spilled the beans on their hit list on how they operate and get rid of their enemies.
Top of the list was Jim Trafficking from Ohio.
That's okay.
Times have changed.
I think you're going to find that.
Okay, thank you very much.
Thank you, Carrie.
Yes!
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