Teamsters Union President Targets Amazon - Sean O’Brien | PBD Podcast | 665
Patrick Bet-David sits down with Teamsters President Sean O’Brien in a fiery conversation about unions, capitalism, and the future of American workers. They debate corporate greed, 1099 jobs, small business realities, and Sean’s shocking take on Amazon, Uber, and Karl Marx. Plus, the viral Senate fight, Trump call, and RNC speech that made headlines.
------
👕 GET THE LATEST VT MERCH: https://bit.ly/3BZbD6l
Ⓜ️ PBD PODCAST CIRCLES: https://bit.ly/4mAWQAP
🥃 BOARDROOM CIGAR LOUNGE: https://bit.ly/4pzLEXj
🍋 ZEST IT FORWARD: https://bit.ly/4kJ71lc
📕 PBD'S BOOK "THE ACADEMY": https://bit.ly/41rtEV4
🎙️ FOLLOW THE PODCAST ON SPOTIFY: https://bit.ly/4g57zR2
🎙️ FOLLOW THE PODCAST ON ITUNES: https://bit.ly/4g1bXAh
🎙️ FOLLOW THE PODCAST ON ALL PLATFORMS: https://bit.ly/4eXQl6A
Ⓜ️ CONNECT ON MINNECT: https://bit.ly/4kSVkso
👔 BET-DAVID CONSULTING: https://bit.ly/4lzQph2
📰 VTNEWS.AI: https://bit.ly/3OExClZ
🎓 VALUETAINMENT UNIVERSITY: https://bit.ly/3TEWlZQ
📺 JOIN THE CHANNEL: https://bit.ly/4g5C6Or
💬 TEXT US: Text “PODCAST” to 310-340-1132 to get the latest updates in real-time!
SUBSCRIBE TO:
@VALUETAINMENT
@ValuetainmentComedy
@theunusualsuspectspodcast
@HerTakePod
@bizdocpodcast
ABOUT US:
Patrick Bet-David is the founder and CEO of Valuetainment Media. He is the author of the #1 Wall Street Journal Bestseller “Your Next Five Moves” (Simon & Schuster) and a father of 2 boys and 2 girls. He currently resides in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida.
They're sick of being victim to the bottom line of a balance sheet.
They are despicable on what they do to working people.
That's a little crazy.
No, it's not crazy at all.
Tell me more.
It's not crazy at all.
Because look, think about it.
Unions built this country.
And more importantly, union jobs have better productivity than non-union.
You know, Sean, you're pushing me so much where you're not thinking about.
No, no, no.
I don't agree with that.
I don't.
I know you don't agree with that.
What I'm saying to you is: if we go to a hotel that's union, it is a pain in the ass to work with them.
Well, I got to control the narrative to make sure it's not.
Oh, I get it, but you're also control guys.
You are, we are.
No, no, no.
We are.
Of course.
I'm not denying it.
I'm just.
That's why they're all signing union conducts.
My mother calls me up and she says, oh my God, I saw you on TV today.
You were fighting with that senator.
You stand your bun up.
Oh, hold up.
Oh, stop it.
Say your solution, every pause.
Oh, no, sit down.
I don't like you because you describe yourself.
Hold it.
And she goes, oh, it's real, real nice.
Real nice, Sean.
I go, why?
What do you mean?
She goes, you just got us all audited.
Like, seriously, can you behave?
I feel on something that could take sweetie victory.
I know this life meant for me.
Adam, what's your point?
The future looks bright.
Handshake is better than anything I ever saw.
It's right here.
You are a one-on-one?
I don't think I've ever said this before.
Sean O'Brien, how are you?
I'm doing well, sir.
How are you?
Fantastic.
So youngest Teamster boss.
We like to not use the term boss.
I'm a union leader.
You speak like a boss.
I was trying to be a boss.
I was brought up by a boss, my mala.
Oh, your mother?
She's a boss, you know, straight up boss.
Well, I want to hear all about it.
For me, the most interesting thing about this is normally when you hear union, you hear, you know, they're the enemy of the capitalist, right?
They're the enemy of the business owner.
However, this time around, in 121 years, first time the president of Teamsters speaks at the RNC, and you guys offered to speak at the DNC, but they didn't give back to you.
They didn't give you the invite.
How do you go first time in 121 years that the president of the Teamster speaks at the RNC?
How does that happen?
Well, I mean, think about it this way.
You made a good point.
You know, times have changed.
Our membership is very diverse.
Political positions historically were Democrats.
I'm a Democrat, but I'm not a far-left Democrat.
And our members have been changing political affiliations.
So our goal was always to work bipartisan across the aisle to get some things done in this country.
And that's why we spoke at the RNC.
They invited us.
I would have gave that same exact speech at the DNC if we were invited.
It wasn't a partisan speech at all.
It was about American workers and how valuable we are.
But you made a good comment earlier about, you know, capitalists always, you know, kind of shied away from us.
And, you know, we were an impediment to what their agenda was.
I don't look at it that way now.
I look at it as where they're conscience moving forward.
You know, they're making a lot of money.
They don't reward the people that make them the success they are.
So I look at us with their conscience now, not an impediment.
Well, let me ask you this.
Do you believe a capitalist can do anything to never need a union?
No, there's always a need for a union, there's no doubt.
It's just a matter of, you know, the capitalist society looks as unions as, you know, We're their checks and balances, right?
So, if we're in the middle and we're negotiating a contract, we're representing their workers.
They're control freaks for the most part.
And they don't want to have to answer to anybody but themselves and their stars.
This is capitalists.
100%.
And, you know, they're going to fight and kick and scream to keep us out.
But, you know, we've proven we've organized 90,000 new members in three years, my union alone.
And it's because of, you know, people are sick of the corporate greed.
They're sick of being, you know, a victim to the bottom line of a balance sheet.
And, you know, I tell you, during COVID, you always look for a positive situation that comes out of a bad situation, right?
And COVID, especially in the Teamsters Union, my union, we're 1.3 million members.
We represent everybody from airline pilots to zookeepers.
And through the pandemic, we provided goods and services through this country, whether it was delivering packages, medical supplies, whether it was flying medical supplies all over the country, whatever the case was, Teamsters were in there picking your trash up.
So we were deemed essential workers and we were deemed as heroes during that time.
You know, we love the Teamsters Union.
We love our UPS driver.
We love our trash people.
We love the people that are stocking the shelves.
As soon as COVID was over and these corporations made record profits, they forgot about how they made those record profits.
They forgot about the people that provided the goods and services that risked their health and the well-being of themselves to provide those services.
And we've done a great job of reminding corporations and America on how valuable the American worker is, how valuable the unionized workforce is.
And I'm excited.
I'm proud.
And, you know, we have done a lot of good work in this country.
We're going to continue to do a lot of good work.
And you're always going to get people that disagree with you, that don't like what you're doing.
But that's an insecurity on their part.
You know, they should embrace the reality.
We're not going away and we're going to be around forever.
And it's interesting when you're saying security because for you, the story I hear, and I'd love for you to validate the story, is when you guys first gave the story to the RNC, what speech you were going to give, they came back and they said, hey, these couple things are not going to work.
You can say, I'm not going to do it.
Yeah.
So what happened was, you know, preparation for RNC.
And I'm going to tell you, like, it was all new to me.
Right.
So my team, myself, we worked on the speech for about six weeks prior to the actual week before the RNC when you had to submit your speech.
And, you know, we were working on it four or five hours a day.
And I'm a control freak.
You know, I need to know exactly what's going on.
I'm like, that does not sound like me.
We're taking that out.
So when we get the final draft done, we send it over to the RNC and they come back with all these edits.
And I'm like, we're reading it.
My team and I were going through it.
And I'm like, I'm not giving that speech.
And they were making suggestions too on like what we should be saying and not saying.
So I reached out to Susie Wiles at the time and I said, look, I'll be honest with you.
I appreciate the invite, but I am not going to say something I don't mean.
And she's like, what are you talking about?
I said, they want me to change my speech all around.
She goes, Sean, you know what?
Just call Trump and tell him what's going on.
So I called Trump and I said, look, all due respect, I'm not changing my speech.
He's like, this is exact words, Sean.
I don't give a fuck what you say.
Say what you want.
And I'm like, all right.
And that's a true story.
And I went there and I delivered the speech.
And it was funny when delivering the speech, you know, you're talking to a crowd that really hasn't embraced us.
And, you know, I went up there originally and it was like two days prior to that.
He got shot.
And so my initials are SOB, Sean O'Brien, S-O-B.
Wow.
Well, son of a bitch.
Well, son of a bitch or however you want to say it.
And so I'm walking up to give the speech and I'm like, I got to start this off right.
And I said, whether you like him or you don't like him, there's no denying the fact of what he went through the past 48 hours.
He's one tough SOB.
Stand in ovation.
Everything's good.
And then I start whacking capitalism.
I start whacking corporate Americans.
You're funny, right?
So then you win them over first.
Yeah, win them over, bring him in, give him a hug, and then slap him, right?
And so I'm watching the dynamics and, you know, the opening statement that I'm getting all these claps and accolades.
And then after I start whacking, you know, some of these corporations and all this stuff, like they were looking around, they were confused whether they should be clapping or not clapping.
It was actually pretty comical.
But all in all, I mean, I had a blast.
I had a blast.
Who'd you run into there?
Like, who came to you and said, great speech, Sean?
Actually, like capitalists.
Oh, there was corporations there that we deal with that, you know, we have good relationships with, like, United Apostle Service was there.
McDonald's, for instance, they're big, big supporters of Republican Party.
But we have a huge presence of delivering and supplying McDonald's.
So they came like, hey, that was a great speech.
And there's a lot of responsible people that were there.
But, you know, there's some people that were giving me the stink eye the next day, you know, walking around in Wisconsin.
So I want to go a completely different direction with this interview.
And of course, I want to know all the other stuff.
Because I know the story.
It's an incredible story, remarkable story.
But, you know, I've had a lot of mobsters on the podcast.
I've had Sammy DeBoe, Frank Colada, Michael Francis, Phil Lianetti, Rafanetal, John Alit.
I've had all these guys.
I've had John Gotti Jr. on.
We just had dinner a couple months ago, a couple of weeks ago in Boca.
I've had those guys.
I've had the business guys.
I've had the politicians, right?
And I kind of watch everybody.
And I watch you, and I asked the question, I'm like, this guy's a president of the Teamsters, okay, youngest.
Your father was a member of Local 25.
Your fourth generation found that mistake.
Yes, sir.
Right.
And so, and you have a very high level of admiration for your father.
You wanted to be your father, do what he did.
You said there was a best friend relationship between the two of you.
And so how much of you doing this was because your family was a part of it?
Well, it was so prevalent in my life.
I mean, where we grew up, you know, four generations, three generations of Teamsters while we were kids, everything in our life, every situation involved the Teamsters union somehow, some way.
If you went to a birthday party, chances are you're going, you're friends with my father's friends, their kids.
You're at a birthday party.
You're talking about the Teamsters Union.
You go to a wedding, talking about the Teamsters Union.
You go to wakes and funerals.
You're talking about the Teamsters.
And I got to be honest with you.
My father was a die-hard, die-hard union man, which I am as well.
He never held off as he worked a rank and file job every single day, but he was so passionate and committed to the organization, taught us about loyalty.
I have two brothers, and my mother is probably the rock of the family.
And where we grew up, you're either going to be Teamsters, cops, firemen, or longshoremen.
And so, you know, it was just so prevalent in our neighborhoods, in our communities.
And that's all I ever wanted to do in my life.
I loved it.
I loved the organization.
I loved the camaraderie.
And I love the fact that through the good times and the bad times growing up, that organization never wave it.
The Teamsters Union never wave it on us, my family, or the community.
So I'm like, this is what I want to do.
This is who I want to be.
Who was the enemy?
Who is the enemy or was the enemy?
Well, there's a lot of enemies out there.
I mean, I'm talking specific to a Teamster president or member.
Who's the enemy?
So when I was growing up, the enemy in 1980 was the legislatures who introduced and passed bipartisan deregulation of the trucking industry.
That's the 400,000 jobs.
400,000 jobs, yeah.
So that was the enemy back then.
And it was funny.
People weren't calling out politicians back then.
You know, they weren't calling anybody out.
It was like, these are the most powerful people.
They get to do what they want.
My thought process is: we're the most powerful people.
We provide the goods and services.
We keep America moving.
And if I was able to roll this, I don't want to wish my life away, but had I been in a position I was now in 1980 when that happened, I would have been fighting and kicking and screaming in the streets about how bad this is for working people, how bad it was for the team at Congress, at the Senate.
I mean, they introduced this legislation.
I mean, the Kennedy is so prevalent in Massachusetts.
Ted Kennedy introduced a bill, bipartisan bill.
Joe Biden, who was the senator, signed off on it.
And so that was, my opinion back then, that was the enemy.
The enemy now is corporate America and not all of them, but the corporations like Amazon.
Amazon, for instance, I mean, they are despicable on what they do to working people.
They're despicable how they treat their people.
And that's probably the biggest enemy we have right now.
So today, your number one enemy would be Amazon.
100%.
And what would you like to see with Amazon?
Because I know Amazon was trying to go to New York.
They were going to bring 25,000 jobs at an average salary of $150,000.
AOC wasn't for it.
De Blasio wasn't for it.
Andrew Cuomo was like, listen, guys, let them come here.
Eventually, Bezos backed out and took those 25,000 jobs to a different place.
Yeah, but those 25,000 jobs aren't real jobs.
They're not careers.
Like you look at a company like UPS, which we fight with constantly, but we have a collective bargaining relationship.
But there's 340,000 people that work at UPS that do the same job as all these people in Amazon.
You start out part-time, then there's an opportunity to go to full-time.
You're getting free health care because we negotiated pensions.
You're getting the opportunity to a career path.
At Amazon, there's 150% turnover ratio.
So those 25,000 jobs aren't career jobs.
Are these W-2 jobs with Amazon or 1099?
Well, if you're part-time working inside the facility, you're a W-2.
But if you're outside delivering packages, you're a 1099 independent contractor.
That's how they're hiding behind us going into organizing.
But we've had some success organizing the third-party leasing arrangements, which are the independent contractor model where Amazon will say, hey, we have nothing to do with the drivers, but they'll mandate that the contractors who hire these drivers wear the uniforms, buy the vehicles, follow the policies and procedures.
So we got a very favorable decision recently in California that recognized that there is a direct relationship with.
So let me unpack this.
So Facebook hired a company that moderated, that watched what people were posting online.
And anytime something would come out and they would say, that wasn't really us.
It's the company that we hired to moderate, right?
And they're the ones that are watching the conversations.
You're saying Amazon hired another company that they gave them the drivers, almost like a Walmart hiring a transportation company that does the loads.
So it's not their own.
I'm just speculating if they did that.
You're saying those guys should be treated on W-2 standards, even though they're 1099.
Yeah, absolutely.
Why did you say that?
That's a little crazy.
No, it's not crazy.
Tell me more.
It's not crazy at all because, look, think about it.
You know, you have these Amazon.
They make you buy the vehicle from them.
They make the contract, they make the drivers wear their uniforms.
They make you buy the vehicle from Amazon.
Absolutely.
You have to lease the vehicle from Amazon.
You have to follow the policies and procedures that Amazon puts forward.
You have to wear the uniform.
You have to basically do everything they tell you, but you're not getting a W-2 from Amazon.
You're getting the 1099 from wherever it's coming from.
XYZ.
XYZ.
Yeah, whatever that LLC is at that time.
And it's just a scam to keep the union out.
And protect against liability as well.
Okay, so are you saying the 25,000 jobs in New York were those jobs?
Or you're not sure?
No, but we weren't sure what they were.
I mean, they probably could have been corporate jobs, which doesn't help us at all.
Why is that?
Well, because, I mean, you're going to put 25,000 management people there.
they're not going to be unionized.
I mean, I think what they were trying to do at that time to make Amazon a major hub, and that's where they would develop all their strategies and technologies and everything else.
So, you know, I think that's why there was a push by the AOCs of the world and saying, we don't want them in here because they're really not real jobs for the constituents we represent.
Got it.
So then let's go to the conversation with Uber and Lyft.
I don't know if you remember, I don't know how long ago this was.
This could have been six years ago, five years ago, four years ago, where there was talks about trying to get Uber drivers and Lyft drivers to get benefits and get paid by the hour.
And then, you know, they went all the way out.
I don't know how far along, Rob, if you want to zoom in, I don't remember the exact details.
Sean, I'm sure you got more of it.
Yeah, Sean, Uber and Lyft had recently agreed a landmark California did that allows their drivers to unionize, a significant departure from their previous stance to fight unionization.
So in this part, what did you guys want to see happen with Uber and Lyft?
Because I know you had an opinion about this as well.
Yeah, we weren't in favor of this because it's a masquerade.
I mean, it's really not a union.
They don't have a collective bargaining agreement.
And these people are independent contractors.
Now, Uber and Lyft, when they came into the world, was it, you know, they eliminated basically cab drivers, right?
When they came in, their biggest play has been all along, they want autonomous vehicles.
So at some point in time, you know, with all these Gavin Newsoms of the world and all these people that are supposed to be helping working people vetoing human operators and vehicles, you're going to see at some point those jobs are going to go away if they're allowed to, you know, use the Waymos of the world.
And I think Waymo just recently partnered up with Uber or Lyft or one of them.
I just saw Waymo the other day.
It's very weird seeing Waymo.
I think there was some sort of collaboration, right, with the apps or whatever it is.
Yeah, there you go.
So it's a collaboration partnership in Phoenix, Austin, and Atlanta.
Right.
So you see Waymo, you see it in San Francisco, no drivers.
I mean, if they're allowed to do this, they can say they're unionized.
They can say they provide an insurance, but there's no real collective bargaining agreement.
And who are you negotiating with?
Like when I negotiate a contract, I negotiate with UPS or Cisco or anybody.
I'm sitting across from the table with the employer.
These people are still 1099 independent contractors.
Who am I sitting across the table from negotiating these contracts?
Who's going to be paying for these benefits?
And if you talk to any of these Uber or Lyft drivers, which I do all the time, they'll tell you how bad it is as far as the split.
You know, as far as they used to get 75% of the trip.
Now they're like 60, 40 in some cases or 50, 50.
So each year, they just keep chipping away at the profits that these independent contractors are making.
And, you know, it's a race to the bottom.
And I don't see how we negotiate or who we negotiate with.
Got it.
So what do you think should happen to a 1099 Uber or Lyft driver?
Well, I think Uber and Lyft should make them direct employees, right?
That would be tough.
No, they got plenty of money.
I mean, Kamala Harris's brother-in-law, what's he like, the general counsel there?
Yeah.
I mean, he's a big union guy, supposedly.
He's a big for workers.
Mandate that these people are direct employees.
And then, you know, you look at it, you're going to have a continuity of the workforce if you make them direct employees.
How do you do that, though?
Walk me through how you do that.
All they do is have to purchase the vehicles off the people that are on the Uber app right now, make them direct employees, sit down and bargain.
Right.
But let's just say if I'm somebody that wants to Uber for one hour a month.
Well, you can always negotiate the terms and conditions and the schedules and everything else.
You're talking about the flexibility?
Yeah, no, what if I, I don't want to be under a union?
What if I'm a driver and I don't want to be controlled by a union?
I don't want, I want to be able to do whatever I want to do.
I don't want a W-2 salary.
I want it to be 1099.
Because a lot of people also don't want to be part of it, right?
The counter argument to it is, because I think in certain places, it's very effective, union.
But I think in certain places, it can be a disruptor as well, where it causes the business to say, you know, Sean, you're pushing me so much where you're not thinking about.
I don't agree with that.
I don't.
I know you don't agree with that.
What I'm saying to you is make the, so do you think 1099 should exist at all?
There shouldn't.
No, there should be no 1099.
There should be no 1099.
No, I mean, kidding.
Well, let me ask you something.
You're 1099.
You're 1099.
So how does that work in real estate?
Well, you got all these, look at real estate, perfect example.
Look at by the time a real estate agent gets paid after you're paying up or everybody's taking their fee, what are they actually doing?
What are they getting?
I mean, your average person that works for a century 21 or whatever, you don't think they would benefit from having continuity, having known exactly what they were going to make.
I mean, I get the 1099 argument.
And this is just my opinion.
I think if I'm working, providing a service, I should be getting paid by an employer.
Yeah, then what if a business owner?
So, okay, so then put the argument into a small business owner.
I open up a small market, liquor store.
Okay.
Should I be guaranteed a salary by the government as well?
I don't understand what you mean.
Okay, so exactly.
So what I'm saying is like, if you're saying a 1099 realtor puts 60 hours a week for a year, he sells three properties.
And let's just say he makes $38,000 first year.
Second year he goes, he puts 80 hours a week, works nonstop for the year, makes $220,000 second year.
Third year he goes, does the same thing, makes a half a million dollars, 1099, not W-2.
So he's making whatever he's making.
Another guy that's there is kind of lolla gagging, doesn't make the calls, doesn't drive as much as he wants, you know, and he doesn't make it in real estate.
He's filtered out, goes to a different business, and ends up becoming an employee, not a 1099.
I don't think 1099 is for everybody.
Business owner.
So what is the risk to a business owner?
Who has more risk?
The business owner or the W-2?
The business owner or the 1099?
What is the guarantee for the business owner?
It doesn't exist.
Well, he can negotiate.
Everything's negotiable.
I mean, the business owner.
Well, the business owner, I mean, if I'll tell you this, it's funny.
A lot of these business owners and small businesses, we deal with a lot of small businesses all over the country.
And we recognize, you know, I think there's a misconception in society that we come in there and we want to hurt businesses.
That's furthest from the truth.
We actually want to help grow things.
And that exists, though.
No, not really.
You got a lot of greedy employers that say when you're chipping into their profits, they take it so personal.
Like, why are you coming after me?
And nine out of 10 times, and this is the truth, we don't solicit people to join the union.
We wait for people to come to us saying, I'm having a problem with my employer.
They're making all this money.
They're treating us horrible.
That's when we'll go and get involved.
So, you know, people can say whatever they want.
They can have their narrative.
But unions built this country.
Unions are responsible for the bridges, the roads, all the infrastructure.
And, you know, it's proven and there's statistics out there that union jobs are more productive than non-union.
Union jobs are more safe than non-union.
And more importantly, union jobs have better productivity than non-union.
So there's a lot of value there when people push back so hard, like the Amazons of the world.
I'm not talking about Amazon.
No, but I'm saying, I'm using that as an example.
There's a reason why they're pushing back.
They do not want to lose control.
They do not want to have their workers.
They don't want their workers to have a voice.
They want to be able to dictate how people act.
They want to control them.
And they employ by fair.
They employ by fair.
If you don't do this, you're fired.
If you don't do this, you're suspended.
You know, when you have a union contract, you have just cause language.
You have grievance and arbitration, dispute resolution.
What do you think the employee takes the job, though?
If it's so bad, why did they so many people?
People have no choice.
Amazon, they focus on distressed communities.
Can't they go work for UPS instead?
Because you guys understand the argument.
You guys took the salary from 145 to 170, right?
And then you also challenge UPS to hire an additional 22,000, right?
I think that's the number, if I'm mistaken.
Yeah, so the 22,000 is jobs that will, you know, people that retire or leave, they have a commitment to fill 22,000 of those jobs.
But we also negotiate is to refill.
Refill, so you maintain, but we also created 7,500 new jobs in the last year of the contract by combining two part-time jobs into one full-time job.
So, you know, anybody that's a part-time will have the ability to secure one of those jobs.
So you count, if I have 10 part-timers, you count that as five employees, five full-time.
Would that count it that way?
Right.
So go back to where I'm going with this because you sound like a, you're, the part that makes you interesting is my, I'll tell you, well, my biggest concern is, and we can come back to this, and I really want to hear your thoughts on this because I think I want to know what leaks business owners have that they should be thinking about.
And that is, you're seeing the price of home going like this, right?
But the income is not increasing at the pace.
And there is a disparity on what's causing this.
Is it the fact that we went off the gold standard and the wealthy was able to print money the way they were?
And it's easy to make money because you have access to a lot of debt.
Is it that fact that we became a debt society so the rich knows how to, the rich kept getting richer and richer and richer and they're able to buy up a bunch of properties and maybe it makes it tougher for a middle America guy?
I'm a guy that my dad was a 99 cent store cashier.
So you see that I joined the Army.
I was going to do 20 years in the Army and then I got out.
I was going to be a bodybuilder.
Then I got introduced to a girl who worked at Morgan Stanley Dean with her.
I went into the finance business.
Then I went into the business.
Then I made money.
Then I made real money.
Then I made real money, right, in the business.
But for me, a part of this, when we're going back to the union side, the small business owner, stay on that one for me.
If you're saying W-2 should be protected by union, fine, because I know 10% of the workforce in America's union, if I'm not mistaken, some number like that.
1099, okay, you have an argument.
I have my own argument why I think 1099 needs to kind of be left alone.
Some places there's abuse with 1099.
I don't think everywhere.
But if you want to protect the 1099 and the W-2, but the business owner that takes money off their mortgage to start a business or takes all their money out of their 401k and they pay the additional early distribution fees and all that other stuff, they risk it all.
They work seven days a week for five years to make that business work for no guarantee.
What protection do they have?
Isn't that the hardest thing to do in America?
Look, I think there's risks versus reward with everything we do.
And that small business that takes a risk, kudos to them.
And it's great.
The last thing you want to do is hurt a small business.
And I understand that.
But, you know, the reality of it is the 1099 has a lot of flaws in that because there's a lot of wage and hour violations.
There's a lot of taxes that aren't being paid back to the states and the federal government.
So although it might sound great because, you know, hey, I remortgaged my house, started this small business.
I'm 1099 and people, I'm avoiding taxes.
There's a lot of, there's a lot of accounting problems with that as well.
And I'm not saying that, you know, people, you know, that start a small business, you know, we don't want to see them lose it.
I mean, we represent a lot of small businesses.
We partner up with a lot of small businesses.
We know what they can afford.
We know what they can't afford.
And that's all negotiations.
But some people just, you know, want to bastardize the system, and the system's broken right now.
I mean, look at all these corporations that file bankruptcy, right?
They'll file bankruptcy.
And bankruptcy reform hasn't been touched in 30 years.
Like for us, you have companies that borrow a lot of money, right?
And all of a sudden, like Yellow Freight, for instance, 22,000 Teamsters.
We gave back $5 billion in concessions from 2009 all the way up till they shut the doors.
They were into Apollo for $600 million, right?
The private equity firm.
The government gave them a $700 million loan under the first Trump administration as a defense contractor.
And prior to them shutting the doors, they gouged all the big wigs, gouged all their money.
They took their bonuses and then filed bankruptcy.
And those workers, my members, that worked there, because of bankruptcy is so convoluted and pro-employer that we're still fighting today to get pension contributions, to get paid time that's owed to our members.
The laws are so antiquated and corporate friendly that we're the last line in creditors.
So when we talk about small businesses, we talk about 1099, we've got to talk about corporate America as well as being deceitful and taking advantage of antiquated systems.
I fully agree on the part that we used to have pension plans.
We used to have a lot of retirement plans for companies.
And Fortune did a story about 22 years ago, 23 years ago, about the fact that we went from having God knows how many.
Rob, can you pull up the number of pension plans by year?
The amount that declined is massive.
And there was a story in 2003, 2004 about what United Airlines did with their pension plan, catastrophic to the people that were working there.
So part of me, and by the way, we represent 10,000 of those mechanics at United.
Oh, okay.
And again, I believe there is abuse in certain areas.
Go up a little bit, Rob.
Could you go a little bit up to see what it says right there?
Show going 2022.
Yeah, I want to know the date of where was that.
So I think a part of what you're saying is true, where some guys are abused.
But let me ask you this.
Sean, what do you think about Karl Marx?
When you think about Karl Marx's Communist Manifesto, what does the union think about Karl Marx?
I mean, we don't focus on that.
We don't focus on that subject matter.
We're focusing on organizing new members, negotiating the strongest contracts and also negotiating pensions into those.
The Teamsters pension plans are solvent throughout the whole country.
We've got majority of our members are in defined benefit plans.
And the reason why employers were able to, again, get out of their obligations is because of the weak bankruptcy laws.
Like you brought up United.
Those folks lost their pension.
I know they did.
And they're not the only ones.
There's a lot of companies out there that did the same thing.
But my point to all this is when there's no consequences in the bankruptcy laws, that's what people lose.
And pension funds are guaranteed, whether the economy is strong, whether the economy is weak.
401k, no one has ever successfully retired off of 401k.
No one.
I mean, I know people in 2009 when the crash happened, they retired from Polaroid.
They had $500,000 in their 401k or a million dollars in 401k.
Within a day, their net worth wiped out, 33% in the net worth.
Guess what?
People that retired thinking they were going to be able to live off that million bucks had to go back to work.
But what 401k is an added benefit.
Well, it's a supplemental benefit.
Yeah, if companies, some companies do it, right?
Some don't match at all.
Some do match.
If a company's matching you, you know, you put 400 bucks a month, they match you, you know, 4%, 100% of it.
That's free money.
Take it because you're not going to get it on a different place, right?
There's some benefits to it, but that alone is not enough.
I do believe there needs to be additional added stuff for people.
I got a better bad idea, right?
That's my podcast.
I know that.
So what we do is we negotiate the pension in most of our major contracts.
And we also have a 401k that's voluntary.
But our goal is to not have our members take any money out of their pockets to invest in their retirement.
Our goal is to work with the employer, negotiate a contract, and have the employer pay into that pension fund on behalf of the people that are making their company a success.
And I'm a prime example.
So I went to work as an apprentice, Teamsters Local 25 for a crane and rigging company.
We had a pension and we had an annuity.
And I never ever had to worry about taking 5%, 6%, 7% of my money out of my pocket to invest because I knew that the union negotiated a pension and an annuity in that contract.
Why do you think 90% of people don't want union?
For example, I don't know if 90% don't want union.
Well, it's a big percentage that are not union.
But I'll give you an example.
Look, there are some employers out there that treat their people right.
And that's where I'm going with this.
I guess where I wanted to go with this, because, you know, I do events.
We've been doing events the last 20 years.
Sean, we probably spend somewhere between $50 to $80 million on events, just events, every year.
Okay.
So audiovisual, $2 million.
You know, staging, you know, seats and lighting and all this stuff.
You spend a lot of money.
Hotel, rooms.
I got to tell you, if we go to a hotel that's union, it is a pain in the ass to work with them.
It is super difficult to work with them.
And the hotel will say, by the way, wink, wink, we're non-union.
We're easy to work with.
And they'll say, like, let's just say your XYZ hotel, he's ABC hotel, and you're non-union, he's union.
They'll use that as a way to say, look, we're non-union.
If you want to work with us, we're easy to work with.
Those three hotels you're looking at, we know how they are.
They're union.
Here's what they're going to do to you.
Here's what they're going to do with this.
Here's what they're going to do with this.
And then you'll say, okay, well, I'm going to go here because this guy's got more space and he's got a bigger name.
Then you go to them and you're like, man, this guy was right.
I should come back here.
Don't get me wrong.
Not all hotels who are union areas.
I can't wait to do another event at a union hotel after this.
They're going to be looking at you.
I know they are.
But what I'm trying to tell you is, and the union have relationships with me.
I openly talk about this all the time.
It's not something I'm going to do.
Yeah, but I mean, you think about this.
There's some areas that are densely unionized and it's embraced and it's part of the culture, right?
You go other parts of the country where they don't have unions.
It's cheaper.
I mean, I get that argument, but to say like, hey, wink, wink, no, no, they're non-union.
We're going to get better service.
I disagree with that.
We're in the trade show business.
We work with Freeman Decorating, GES, some of the biggest and best in the business.
And the opinion on most people when they come to these trade shows or go to these trade shows is, again, my point, our work is a train better.
Our productivity is much better.
And there's less stress put on the event because you got professionals doing it.
You know, I don't buy into like oh, you think all the union workers work as hard as you do or your personality?
Yeah, the majority of them do.
You know, you've always got in any industry, right?
You've always got that 5% that have the same 5% of the problems, not showing up for work, being late.
I think it's just going to be that.
Yeah, I think 95% of our members go in there every single day and they give it 100%.
Man, listen.
And look, if there's a me, I'm a perfect example.
I was the biggest advocate, and I'm always going to be an advocate for working people, and I was a shop steward.
But you're a worker.
I never went to work late.
I never called in sick because you got to set the example.
Let me put it to you.
And I would tell members that we're going down a bad path.
Listen, we retain the business.
The employer is just, you know, the broker that when we go out there to provide a service, the people are going to rehire us because of us, not because of anybody.
But you're an honorable man, though.
So, to me, you 95% of the people are honorable.
No, what I'm saying, I'm not saying they're not.
Listen, I'm a guy that came up with the working.
I'm not a guy that's not connected.
This business has been around, this entire business you see here from day one we started 2013 till today.
You know how much money I've taken off the table?
This whole thing, this much.
I don't pay myself a penny per year.
I've never paid myself anything from this.
If I go to a speaking gig, they pay me $350 for an hour.
Nothing comes to me.
It goes all into the business.
I don't take anything out.
I pay our guys well.
I know.
They're all telling me, you know what we're doing right now?
What are they doing?
The whole staff were signing recognition cards to the team system.
They're going to join.
They're going to join right now.
He's laughing.
He's signing.
He's signed one.
Yeah, yeah.
But let me tell you: one of my guys is like, so what if over here people team up and they want to do this and they want to do that?
I said, listen, the way I see it is a completely different way.
If I take care of you and we talk business openly with numbers and you see how it works and you're involved in the equity, you're involved in the upside of the business.
You're involved in the L-tip.
You're involved with 40-1Q.
You're involved with profit sharing.
You're getting paid as if you're a business owner.
Why would you not be happy about it?
So our philosophy has always been the other way around.
But I want to put it on you a little bit.
Let me see that paper for a minute.
I'm not going to read your writing.
All right.
I do this all the time.
When we're talking to people that want to join a union and they'll have questions.
Yeah.
And people want information.
They have questions.
And they'll say, why should I join a union?
I said, Are you getting a guaranteed raise every year?
No.
Does your health care costs go up every year?
Yes.
Do you have a pension?
No.
Does your job ever get threatened?
Yes.
Okay.
My employee is telling me I don't need a union because we're all a family and we don't need an intermediary to talk about our disputes.
I said, that's all well and good.
Do yourself a favor.
Mark down five things on a piece of paper: guarantee wage increase per year, affordable health care with no rising costs, right?
A pension that I can retire on.
And four, job security.
And put a signature page, an agreement between you and the employer, and give this to your employer.
See if he signs it.
If he signs it, you don't need us.
If he refuses to sign it, you need us because he's not going to live up to those four.
So let me flip it on you.
Mr. Putting stuff on the paper.
Let me put it on you, Mr. Sean O'Brien, Mr. Tough Guy Teamster.
My kind of guy.
Here's a question for you.
This is not a birth defect.
I earned it.
I earned it.
By the way, it's so funny because you, Dana, and another guy named Sean Mike that did the swag.
And of course, Dana's, you guys are similar age.
Yeah, I know Dana.
Dana's a tough guy himself from the Dana's the right guy for the job that he has.
That's a whole different conversation.
I'm not going to go there, but let's stay over here because UFC definitely doesn't want the union to go after, you know, do what they're doing there.
Well, I mean, they've been clear.
I think they, it's like boxing and everybody else.
These boxers, these UFC fighters, they're all considered independent contractors.
That's right.
Okay, but again, let's take boxing, for instance.
You know, boxing, you had the promoters making all the money.
He looks like your cousin.
You guys look like you're from Boston.
I know he is.
That's what I'm saying.
Yeah, we're about, I think we're the same age, too.
I know Dana pretty well.
Dana's a good guy.
Good, you were making your point.
Boxing, you see, you were going to make a point.
All right, you look at pro sports, you look at the NFL, you look at NHL, you look at Major League Baseball, they're all under a collective bargaining agreement.
They all have, you know, checks and balances, health insurance.
They've got pensions if you trigger a certain amount of games and or years.
Those folks retire young, 33, and they've got to work.
And some of them have debilitating medical conditions as a result of their sports that they played.
I mean, you know, the same as in boxing and UFC, but, you know, they've been considered independent contractors.
Is that right or wrong?
I mean, I don't know.
I don't know much about the sport, but I know when you're talking about pro teams like NFL, NHL, Major League Baseball, there have been unions in there since the inception for most parts.
And the reason is because, you know, there's terms and conditions and negotiations.
There's retiree medical.
Collective bargaining, all this other stuff.
But then they have their side deals.
Right, right.
You got the collective bargaining agreement that basically has to be followed.
And then can I follow up on this with you?
Sure.
Nowadays, more than ever, the brand you wear reflects and represents who you are.
So for us, if you wear a future looks bright hat or a value tame gear, you're telling the world, I'm optimistic.
I'm excited about what's going to be happening, but you're a free thinker.
You question things.
You like debate.
And by the way, last year, 120,000 people got a piece of future looks bright gear with value tamement.
We have so many new things.
The cufflinks are here.
New future looks bright.
This is my favorite, the green one.
Just yesterday, somebody placed an order for 100 of these.
If you watch the PBD podcast, you got a bunch to choose from.
White ones, black ones.
If you smoke cigars and you come to our cigar lounge, we have this high-quality lighter cutter and a hold of four to cigars.
We got sweaters with the value tame logo on it.
We got mugs.
We got a bunch of different things.
But if you believe the future looks bright, if you follow our content and what we represent with value tame, with PBD podcasts, go to vtmerch.com.
And by the way, if you order right now, there's going to be a special VT gift insight just for you.
So again, go to vtmerch.com, place your order, tell the world that you believe the future looks bright.
So, Sean, let's flip it on you.
Okay.
You're running a business.
Okay.
I think you'd be one hell of a business owner if you ran a business.
And you said something.
You said those capitalists are all about control.
They are.
They are.
And then three minutes later, you said, when I'm speaking on stage at the RNC, I'm all about control.
I got it.
Well, I got to control the narrative to make sure it's not.
I get it, but you're also control guys.
So both sides, you know, we're all controlled.
Not everybody, but you are.
We are.
No, no, no.
We are.
Of course.
I'm not denying it.
That's why they're all signing union cards out here.
It's so funny.
But going back to it here with you, you're running a business.
Okay.
You have the knowledge that you have of being on the opposite side as a team super president.
Okay.
Representing a lot of your members, 1.3 million members, one of the biggest unions in America.
And they love you, right?
And they love you.
And we love the fact that somebody doesn't.
Some of them do.
Most of them do.
There's a couple that don't, you know.
But going back to this year, if you ran a business, you're running a business.
I do right now.
I know.
But what's your margins?
What is the priority of margins to stay in business?
So we don't look at the margins.
Like, so we run a big organization, 1.3 million members.
Since we took over three and a half years ago, we just surpassed $1 billion in assets, okay, which is pretty big.
We have a $370 million strike and defense fund, right?
I want you to think about it in a different way.
I mean, but I want you to hear it my way.
I know exactly where you're going.
We have a completely unionized workforce that works in Washington, D.C. How are we going, Dale?
I'm going to tell you how we do it.
I just want to hear it, Sean.
All right, go ahead.
All right, go ahead.
Go ahead.
No, no, no, go ahead.
I want to hear it.
We go into negotiations with the union that represents our employees.
And so, like, to your point, now I got to put on my employer hat.
No, not employee.
I want you to put a founder hat on.
Okay, founder hat.
So, put a founder hat on.
Found a hat.
So, you right now take $100,000 out.
Let's just say you and your wife have had a job for 20 years.
Right.
Okay.
And you got 220 in your 401k and you got $300,000 of equity in your home.
And you say, babe, I want to start a business.
You take $200,000 out of your home, line of credit, and you start a business with it.
Choose whatever business you want to be in.
Construction, transportation, finance, real estate, whatever it is they want to get into.
How do you structure your business at the beginning to be able to manage the fact that you only have $200,000 to start a business to make it grow and attract people and keep them knowing another big company can afford to take 100% of your guys away from you because it can pay better than you?
Well, you don't bite off more than you can chew.
I mean, it depends what business you're going to be in.
Okay.
So if I know I got $200,000 and I want to be a construction business, I'm not going to go try and build a skyscraper in Boston, right?
With $200,000.
I'm going to start out small like a lot of my friends have done.
Start out small, like remodeling bathrooms, remodeling kitchens, and build the business and stay within my means and stay within my cost structure.
As you grow that business, you're going to need more employees.
As you need more employees, your projects are going to get bigger.
Your profit margins will get bigger.
It will expose you to the ability to borrow more and more money.
Some of these people that remortgage their house to start a business, they start a business.
They don't realize that you're going to have to work that business 24-7.
You're going to have to sacrifice, to your point, your own wealth, your own paychecks to make sure the people that are helping you build this business, the employees.
Some people make the mistake of, you know, watching TV at 2 in the morning, have a better bad idea.
Let's take an equity loan on my house at 12%.
I'm going to start this major business.
And they're out of business in six months.
I think, like anything else, people need to be reasonable.
People need to have reasonable expectations and have patience and the will to work to build this business up.
And as you get bigger, it's very hard because I have a friend of mine, and I'll tell you, his name's Salopoli.
Went to Northeastern University, played football, came from no means at all.
His parents took a $30,000 equity line of credit on his house for him to buy a pizza shop in Boston, sells pizza.
And this guy bought one pizza shop, got it set up, running, paid his parents off, then started parlaying this into more and more pizza shops.
And he had direct employees.
And then he started getting into real estate and he started developing real estate.
And this guy has built an empire, a unionized workforce as well.
And that all parlayed off a small business.
Is it 100% union or is it a percentage union percentage?
No, no, all his projects he does construction-wise.
He's a second-leading developer in the city of Boston.
But he didn't just open one pizza shop and say, I need a $500 million loan because I'm going to do all these projects.
He systematically and methodically built his businesses and parlayed it into another venture.
My point to all this is, you know, it can be done the right way.
But some people think, you know, hey, I want to own my own business.
I'm going to get rich.
It doesn't work like that for 90% of the people.
You know why I'm asking the question for me?
I'm not trying to get you caught off guard.
I'm asking the question because I think you know how hard it is to run a business on the opposite side.
To me, the problem here becomes the following.
I think it's great for people to, like when you're talking to talents, like, look, here's the offer.
Go talk to your lawyer, come back to us, and let our lawyers speak to each other.
And then I'll never forget when I'm trying to sell my business, the guy that was buying my business, the insurance company, completely different business that I've been, we grew it from zero to 60,000 agents and we sold it for 250 three years ago.
The buyer came up to me and he says, Pat, this process is going to take three to four months.
We're going to experience a moment where the lawyers are going to cause this deal to fall through.
Let's make sure when that happens, we get on a call together.
I said, no problem.
Two weeks before the deal closes, there's a massive war going on.
We have a lawyer on our end.
His name is Chris.
I don't even know how to talk to this guy.
Explain how this guy was.
He is, we paid this guy half a million dollars for three, four months.
He's one of the biggest pit bull MF, just think about whatever lawyer you're thinking about.
Times 10.
On every call, it's a fight with this guy.
Then they had a guy on their side.
My guys are calling me saying, hey, your lawyer is about to screw it up.
And they said, their lawyer is going to screw it up.
So he and I get on a call together.
And then we talk.
He says, what's going on?
I said, great.
Do you have a problem with this?
No.
Similar to how you, no, you call Trump and Trump's like, I don't care what you say.
I don't give a fuck.
You know, go say whatever you don't.
And then we were able to get the deal going.
The part that I have with the concern here is the following.
Like when you're going through this, give a raise every year.
We don't just give a raise every year.
We give a raise above and beyond because our terms, the way we have it structured, I can clearly explain to you how it is.
Oh, we'll do that when we negotiate.
No, when you and I sit down and when you see it, but I'll show it to you.
I want you to actually see it.
No, no, when we'll take them all.
But I want you to go through this year.
Go with the first one.
Go to the second one.
The second one is what?
Affordable health for healthcare.
Okay.
So what do you do with a small business owner in 2012, 2011 when Obamacare comes out?
And then all of a sudden the premium for the small business owner spiked up 40%.
So do you know that, and that's a great point.
Do you know that we run the majority of our own health and welfare funds nationwide and we have tremendous buying power where a small business like you are going to get hit with double-digit premiums every year, right?
Increases.
We control the cost because of the amount of lives that we have and we provide the benefits.
So when you're talking small business, we've had situations where small businesses have come to us.
When I was running local 25 in Boston and say, hey, I really want to unionize, you know, the healthcare is killing me to your point.
What are your rates and what can you charge and how long are they projected out?
And we get the best care.
So that's an example of an employer coming to us saying, hey, I can't afford the sustainability of this health insurance.
And, you know, we've had a lot of success on that.
For sure.
For every one story, there's also horror stories because what it also does is the business model sometimes of the union is pinning the employee against the employer and then you come in as the hero.
And then afterwards, everyone walks on eggshells of driving the company.
There is that part where some people are like, when I talk to some guys, I'm like, hey, you're part of union.
How does it work?
We like it.
What do you do?
I don't like this about it.
Okay.
How about you guys?
We can't stand it.
Why?
I wish it would have never done it.
Boom.
So there's the good stories, there's the bad stories.
The good stories, there's a partnership, right?
And it works out.
The bad stories are sometimes it drives a wedge between the two.
Like the feeling I get of what's happened with America since 2020.
You brought up COVID, right?
Since 2020 till today.
From 2020 till today, you know, it was almost like, you know, a number came out today.
Rob, you saw the chart I sent you today?
Sean, they came out with a study.
Rob, what time did he send you this chart?
This morning.
What time?
9.01 a.m.
Were you on the clock?
I'm always on the clock.
Oh, you are something else.
I love what I do.
But let me tell you what happened here.
So this guy, they do an article on CNBC, okay?
On the CNBC article, it states, what are Gen Z, men, Gen Z men?
What are their top 10 priorities?
Okay.
You know what men had as number one?
No.
What do you think it is?
I have no idea.
Having children.
Okay.
Do you know what, this is Gen Z. Gen Z is 13 to 28.
So think like when you're that age.
Young men today, between 13 to 28, their number one was having children.
You know what it was for women?
What was it?
Number 10.
Really?
Number 10 is for women and number one is for men.
So boys, young men, and Rob, I'm sure you, yeah, I think it's going to be somewhere on the chart as you go through it.
Is that the one?
No, it's a go a little bit lower.
You'll see it.
So to me, a part of it is, yeah, look at that right there.
Male voted for Trump.
Number one, having children.
Female voted for Harris.
Okay, go a little lower.
Go a little lower.
Look at number 10.
Keep going.
Maybe not even number 10.
11 being married.
Oh, 12 is children.
So not even 10.
So to me, I think what happened the last five years, it was pinning everybody against everybody.
It's kind of like the story you told when Kamala Harris came to your team and they pointed a finger at you and what did they say?
They said, hey, Sean, you know, you better support us or else.
You know, so there's two occasions.
She went up to one of my vice presidents who was at an Emily's list event.
And Joan Corey, she's one of our vice presidents, very classy woman, said, oh, I'd love to get a picture with you.
I'm Joan Corey.
I'm vice president for the Teamsters Union.
She turns, gets stern, and you better get on board.
Your organization better get on board.
How can she say that?
It's truth.
So this lady, Joan Corey, is probably one of the most honorable people in the world.
She comes back and tells us this whole story.
So I call, and we were still going through our polling.
This was early on.
I call Motti Walsh, who's a good friend of mine, who was the labor secretary and then took a job with the NHL Players Association.
He wasn't the labor secretary.
I go, you think this is a problem or no?
He's like, oh, you know, I'll find out.
I'll see what it is.
Nothing gets done with it.
Then she comes to our roundtable, which every single candidate came to.
And long story short, you know, that was a nightmare dealing with her, that administration, as far as getting her to the table in front of our rank and file members.
And what she did was at the end, because she really didn't answer any of the questions, and they weren't negotiating with us, she's only going to answer three questions.
And these are the questions she's going to answer.
And I'm like, no, absolutely not.
All the other candidates answered these questions.
They didn't give us the answers we wanted consistently, but everybody else did.
No one's getting any special.
Out of the 16, she didn't answer three of them, or she only wanted to answer three.
Only wanted to answer three of them.
Why is that?
Did they give you the explanation?
No, it's just, they were very difficult.
I'll tell you, it was her campaign.
Like all the other candidates were easy.
Biden was difficult.
We had him in before he dropped out.
But at the end of her, and matter of fact, I'm asking her questions and my chief of staff slides over a piece of paper and it says, this will be the last question.
Right?
I'm like, you gotta be kidding me.
So, all right, whatever.
And it was like 25 minutes left of the timeframe.
So then she gives summing up.
And she, at the end, she looked right at me and my board, and she says, listen, we're going to win with you or without you.
Like, who says that when you're asking for their endorsement?
You think?
So you spent one-on-one time with her?
You had time with her?
I had time with every single candidate.
How different were some of the candidates privately than publicly?
I mean, privately, most people were, you know, they were fine.
They were.
you know, respectful.
Who did you like?
That didn't win, obviously, but who was?
You know, who we had a philosophical difference of opinion with was, I think it was Asa Hutchinson.
He matter-of-factly, you know, stated why he was running for president.
He was a Republican, right?
And he was a perfect gentleman.
He said, look, I don't agree with a lot of things that, you know, your platform is.
However, I do value American workers.
I do value unionized workers.
There's some difference of opinions.
He was great.
He did a great job.
I mean, Joe Biden came in right then and there.
You could tell he lost his fastball.
One-on-one, nice man, nice elderly man.
But, you know, it was a shame on what his party put him through.
I mean, I looked at that and I'm like, you know, here's a nice man, public service his whole life.
Like, why are they allowing him to go out this way?
And, you know, to your point, one-on-one, great guy.
When we were asking him questions, you know, he was saying a lot of the right things and then, you know, he'd get confused a little bit.
But all in all, everybody was respectful through the process.
What did you like most about Trump?
Look, he's crazy.
I mean, you know, you never know what's going to come out of his mouth.
What I liked most was the process.
When we made the invite, I think it was 2024 to all the candidates.
He was the first one to respond.
Absolutely love to do it.
Love to do it at the building.
We never had any presidential candidate at our building in D.C. meeting with our executive board and rank and file members from across the country.
He was one of the first ones to commit and schedule.
I mean, his campaign team was on point.
Mostly all of the candidates were on point, but Trump, and when he came in, look, we gave him 16 questions a couple weeks in advance.
None of them answered the questions how we wanted them.
Some of them were stronger on certain issues, some of the weaker.
I mean, Trump's whole focus with us was on immigrant workers taking American jobs and working for less money.
The 1099 issue came up.
They're not getting benefits.
They're not getting wages.
You know, they're taking your job.
So he focused a lot on that.
And he focused a lot on just talking about him, himself.
And, you know, I think at the time, the Democrats were so focused on the social justice platform that that's where they lost a lot of our members because a lot of our members were focused on inflation, focused on more money and their paychecks, focused on, you know, the issues that we weren't aligned with the social justice platforms that were out there.
I mean, look, the reality of his teams has been around since 1903.
We have negotiated the strongest contracts representing workers.
We satisfy a lot of those social issues by having strong contracts, high middle-class wages, and the ability to retire.
So our members weren't like buying into that rhetoric.
And, you know, I think people were sick of the, and Trump was saying a lot of the things that were resonating with our members.
And that's why, you know, a lot of our members, when we polled them, 65% of them were liking what they were hearing.
65% were for Trump.
Right.
And what percentage of your members are Republicans versus Democrats?
Do you have that?
Have that figure offhand, but I would say it's still the majority of our members are probably still slightly blue.
And it depends where you live, right?
You know, it depends.
You know, you got the gun issue, you've got a lot of those issues that our members identify with.
What are your biggest states, biggest states and members?
Oh, we have California is probably our biggest state.
Number one.
Yeah, we have about 150,000 members there.
New York, we have a high density.
Chicago, all the big major cities.
But we do have a presence in every single state.
We represent Canada, Guam, Puerto Rico, as well as the United States.
So we have members in all 50 states.
We have members in Puerto Rico, Guam, and we have about 130,000 in Canada.
Sean, what is the profile of a Teamster boss?
Leader.
Teamster leader.
Teamster leader.
Teamster president.
Leader.
What is the profile of somebody that becomes a Teamster leader?
Is there a pattern?
Because the Local 25 is a very well-known one.
It's not like it's just a regular one, right?
You've had, I think you replaced Hoffa's Jimmy Hoffa's son or grandson?
No, internationally, I replaced Hoffa's son, the original.
Internationally, you replaced his son.
His son, yeah.
Local 25.
I was the youngest president of elected.
We had 12,500 members in that local.
So I was the youngest.
I think I was elected at 33 years old.
So what gets the crew to say, that's our guy?
What do they look for?
Is there an element of toughness, willing to fight for me?
Is it because there has to be a pattern, right?
When you look at somebody that becomes a point guard or a quarterback, or there's certain profiles that you look at.
What is it for this position?
Well, the position is, it's simple.
I mean, I held every single position in the union at Local 25.
I started out as a shop steward, representing workers on the shop floor, making sure that the employer followed the contract, making sure our members followed the contract as well.
And then I just rose up through the ranks.
But what qualified me or what the attraction was from our members for me to lead them was my passion to make sure that members were taken care of, my passion to make sure that they were represented in the workplace.
And it's just, it was a progression.
It's not something I just woke up one day and said, oh, I don't want to drive a tractor trailer anymore hauling heavy equipment.
I want to be the Teamster president.
It doesn't work that way.
And some small locals, you may get a shot at that.
But, you know, where I came from, it was just a progression.
I held every single job in that union, demonstrated to the membership that I was going to give it 110%.
I was going to work 24 hours a day, seven days a week.
Did you want that job?
I wanted that job since I was eight years old.
Get out of here.
Absolutely did.
Get at it.
Absolutely.
I used to go to union meetings with my father, and I would look up on the stage.
I would look up on the stage and I'd see Billy McCarthy, who later became the general president out of my local.
And he signed my union card when I first got in the union.
But I would look at these men, because it's predominantly men back then, and it was like looking at the president of the United States and just seeing the camaraderie and seeing, again, we're very, very strong in Boston.
And Billy McCarthy was like Barbie Orr and Larry Bird in the city of Boston.
Everybody knew who he was.
Everybody knew who the Teamsters were.
And it was just something I was attracted to.
I loved the discipline.
I loved the ability to help people that weren't as fortunate as you are.
It was something I, I mean, I tell the story all the time.
I went to a Catholic school and there was some rich kids from, when I say rich kids, they lived in a better neighborhood.
They lived in the Lawrence Estates.
And I lived over near Boston Ave near the railroad tracks and the Mystic River.
And there was a divide.
And they'd be like, Johnny would be like, I want to be a lawyer like my dad.
Mary would be like, I want to be a nurse like my mother.
And I'd be like, I want to drive a truck for the Teamsters, Local 25.
Like, I knew right then and there, that's what I wanted to do.
Mystic River.
What a movie, by the way.
Oh, by the way, oh, yeah, yeah.
I fell in that river.
It was like falling in maple syrup, so polluted.
How old were you when you fell?
I'm probably like seven or eight.
It was right down the end of my street.
You know, we used to, it was awful, but it was fun.
Best place to grow up.
So, so you're seeing at eight years old, you want to be this 25 years later.
Now, have you told anybody at eight years old?
Like, did you tell your parents?
I used to tell everybody.
I used to tell everybody, I want to drive a truck.
I want to be a Teamster.
And I didn't even understand the structure of it.
But I just knew that everything we had, because my father would say, everything we have is because of the Teamsters Union.
And that just resonated with me, and it stuck with me for life.
And look, I'm a loyal guy, whether we're going to win or lose.
I'm with you.
I'm not leaving your side.
Unless you're a rat or a pedophile or a rapist, I'm done with you.
But, you know, I'm loyal to the organization.
I'm going to give this organization everything I have because it's giving me everything I have.
How much of the mindset?
Because you know how you always, when you hear the stories, I've had friends these Sammy, hey, who killed Jimmy Hoffa?
Well, the mob was involved with this.
I've had plenty of guys have asked Jimmy Hoff a question.
I'm sure you've been asked this question all the time.
So I'm not even going to go there.
But how much of back in the days?
Of course not today.
And I'm not even talking about, because the last time would have been one, 80s, right?
70s, where the mob was still around.
Why was there such a connection between the two?
Why do you think the two had relations together, the mob and the unions?
Well, I think it was, you know, big projects, big money.
You know, the unions had pension funds that funded a lot of projects around the country.
I mean, the Teamsters Pension Fund built Vegas back in the day.
So I think there was always that relationship.
But, you know, organized crime nowadays, you know, that has no presence in our union.
You know, those two guys you reference, like I said, I don't, if I do something wrong, it's because of a decision I made and I got to face those consequences.
I don't glorify people that, you know, prayed on the weak and then when they got caught, they told everybody, told on everybody.
I don't like that.
But getting back to why there was a relationship, it was big money.
It was power.
And, you know, a lot of these pension funds, not just the Teamsters Pension Fund, you know, they funded a lot of these major buildings and major cities where there was a stronghold in a lot of these major cities.
And that's how the relationship was.
But, you know, thankfully, it's not like that anymore.
Are you a movie guy?
I watch movies.
Yeah, I do.
What's your favorite movie of all time?
My favorite movie of all time.
I'm trying to guess if I can get at least one of them.
All right.
So I've got probably a top three or four.
My favorite movie of all times was All the Right Moves with Tom Cruise.
All the right out of all the Tom Cruise movies.
Yeah, I mean, it was football.
I love football.
It was filmed in Pennsylvania, Grimytown.
Yeah, it was a great, great movie.
I liked Uncommon Valor with Gene Hackman.
Okay.
Did you ever see that movie?
No, not that one.
Great movie.
Can you pull that up?
Because I know Uncommon.
Uncommon Valor.
Gene Hackman's one-of-a-kind actor.
It was phenomenal.
Of course, you know, Platoon was great.
Phenomenal.
Full metal jacket.
Full metal jacket.
Wow.
Yeah.
I mean, those are all great movies, you know.
I mean, everybody loves Goodfellas, Casino.
Godfather on the ball.
You know what's funny?
And I have people out there that'll attest to this.
I never watched The Godfather until about four months ago.
Stop it.
Swear to God.
Why is that?
I just never really never convinced you it's a good movie.
No, everybody would say you're going to watch it, you're going to watch it.
But I watched it on a plane.
I was going from filming my podcast on the West Coast to coming back, and I'm like, all right.
And you know yourself when you're on planes, you're doing most of your research, right, for your show or I'm doing research for work or whatever.
But I'm like, you know what?
I want to watch a movie.
So I had three hours or more on the plane.
So I'm like, I don't have three hours when I'm home.
Let me watch this.
And I finally watched it like four months ago.
Did you finish all three or just one?
I just watched the first one.
But I'll tell you, I was, what a cast of characters in there.
And you know what amazed me?
Like, not like today when you watch TV or movies, even regular TV.
I didn't hear, and maybe I missed it.
I didn't hear any swearing at all.
Yeah.
And it was, it was, I'm glad I watched it.
That's cool.
You know, I asked Dana, what's your favorite movie of all time?
You know what he said?
Do you know his favorite movie?
No.
Vision Quest.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Have you seen Vision Quest?
Oh, yeah.
I knew.
I've never seen Vision Quest.
So I come home and he says, Pat, whatever you do, watch it tonight.
I watch Vision Quest.
I'm like, and I watch it with my oldest son.
So what a great movie.
So what's her name in the movie?
Yeah, she was, she was, you know who she ended up marrying, right?
You know the story of her?
Listen, I know her personally.
Okay.
So funny story, right?
This is a funny Linda Fiorentino, right?
Funny story.
I'm at Elaine's in New York in like 2000, I don't know, seven or eight.
And, you know, we're in the motion picture business as well, the Teamsters, because we provide all the transportation, all the movie sets.
So she's there, and I met her through a bunch of guys from Chicago that she did a movie with.
And, you know, she's talking to us, regular person.
And then I hired her stepson, Carson, to work for me as an intern when I was running Local 25.
And this kid was hilarious.
He was great.
So she was, she, she actually had like a little bit of a relationship with us where I do this huge fundraise every year for autism.
So she would show up.
She was a great person.
But we're at Elaine's when we first meet her.
And there's this guy sitting over in the corner.
And myself and one of the guys that worked me said, well, we got to get back to the hotel.
He gives us a ride.
And I don't even know who he is.
And he's chirping lights going through, like putting lights on.
He was an FBI agent.
That's right.
And I'm like, wait, you're a cop.
He's like, oh, FBI agent.
I'm like, stop the car.
I do not want to be seen with an FBI agent, right?
Long story short, he gets in trouble.
Yeah.
Right?
That whole thing.
But it was just amazing.
You look back.
But yeah, she was, that was a good movie.
Another funny story.
She's at one of our events for the autism event.
I used to raise a million dollars a year for autism, and it's still carrying on right now with the new leadership of Local 25.
But she's in the room, and my buddy, he was crazy.
He died.
Kid from Charlestown, Shane Noon.
He goes, I loved your movie.
She goes, which one?
Vision Quest.
And she goes, well, what was your favorite scene in the movie?
He goes, well, the laundry basket.
She goes, you know, I wasn't even in that scene.
Oh, wow.
But it was just funny.
She's a good personality, you know?
Yeah.
Well, I mean, listen, it's the movie that young boys would watch and fantasize about.
And I think she played it very well.
Sure.
She played it very well.
Yeah.
She played it very well.
You said autism.
Why autism?
Well, because, you know, again, we talked about healthcare, right?
Health and welfare.
When I first took over Local 25, you know, my responsibility also was managing a health and welfare fund.
And we were looking at the cost, what's costing the most amount of money and why.
And there was such a spike in the mid-2000s of diagnosis of autism through our membership.
And also a lot of retirees were reaching out saying, hey, my grandchild was born.
They have autism.
And it was like a pandemic, but no one talked about it back then.
And so I'm like, our charity of choice at the time was diabetes, right?
And I, being ignorant, I'm like, diabetes, all people have to do is stop eating donuts, lose 100 pounds, and, you know, they're controlling it.
Well, I didn't know there was a type one and a type two.
So this is ironic.
I flip the charity.
We jump in with both feet.
We start raising.
We became the second largest fundraiser in the country for autism in 2007.
I partner up with Barb Wright, who used to be the CEO of NBC, and we are crushing it, like just crushing it, raising money awareness.
So lo and behold, three years after the charity's up and running, my nine-year-old son gets diagnosed with type 1 diabetes.
Stop it.
Swear to God, you can't make that out.
Nine years old?
Nine years old.
And I didn't know there was a type one.
I knew there was type two and type one, but you know, it was ironic where I took the position, you know, being ignorant, I'll just stop eating, lose 100 pounds and get some exercise and you can control it.
And then we want to focus on autism because there's no cure.
There's no services provided to these families.
And lo and behold, three years later, my oldest son, he's 24 now and he's doing great, was diagnosed with type 1.
Wow.
And what does he do right now?
He's a union plumber.
He went to trade school.
He's a union plumber.
He's laid off, but he's an aspiring comedian.
So he is doing stand-up comedy.
Yeah, it's funny.
I mean, I'm the blunt of all his frigging jokes, you know?
How good is he?
Like, is he telling dad jokes all the time?
All the time.
I tell you, my dad.
You know, it's funny.
Like, what's his name?
Sean O'Brien Jr.
He's a he's an old soul.
He's a great kid.
And yeah, that's his.
Go down a little bit, Rob.
Go down to see what it is.
Yeah, there he is right there in the middle.
That's him.
And he's a comedian.
He's a comedian, yeah.
And he's got a great way about him.
He's in with a lot of that whole comedy circle is very tight.
Yeah, he's crazy.
Is that him with Theo Vaughn?
Yeah, yeah.
I love it.
Yeah, so we did, I did Theo Vaughan last summer.
Yeah.
And he came down to, Sean loved him, came down to the studio when we filmed it.
And Theo Vaughn, let me tell you something about Theo Vaughn.
He's phenomenal.
He says to he says to my son, you know, I understand your comedy.
Here's my cell phone number, right?
Gives it to my 23-year-old son at the time.
And I'm saying, don't be fucking calling him when you're drunk and shit in front of your friends, right?
And so ironically, last summer, he's going to Nashville and he's like, hey, dad, I'm going to go down to Nashville.
Do you think I should reach out to Theo?
I said, dad, he gave you his number, reach out to him.
I said, he probably won't get back to you.
They're busy.
And I saw Theo not too long ago before that.
He texted Theo and Theo hooked him up with three non-paying comedy jobs.
But he said to Sean, hey, your comedy might be doing well in Boston, but you've got to try it out in other areas.
He didn't have to do that.
Good for him.
What a solid guy.
Good for him.
So I text him every once in a while.
Good for him.
Theo Vaughn's a good guy.
I think Theo has got such a unique way of interviewing people that I think every presidential candidate has to go through Theo.
He is that unique of a guy the way he does it.
When he got JT Vance, when he told the cocaine thing, he said, you know, I just, I feel like, you know, things have changed with cocaine.
JT couldn't.
Have you seen it?
And then he also, he also said, he said, someone asked him, what was your drink of choice?
He said, cocaine.
Yeah.
Yeah.
He is at any point, he could say any.
Is this it, Ryan?
Yes, sir.
Let me see this one.
I don't know if I'd be sober if this stuff weren't killing people, to be honest with you.
I know that's sad to say, but that keeps me out of the risk of it.
You know, it just makes it too.
It makes it a little scarier.
Yeah, that's the thing.
It makes it scarier.
But it's also sad that somebody, I mean, this is ridiculous to say, probably, that somebody can't, you know, you can't even do cocaine in this country anymore, you know?
And that seems like a crazy thing to say.
And don't say it.
Don't say that.
I said it.
But yeah, but don't say that anymore.
I'm going to steal that long.
He didn't like cocaine.
He just liked the smell of it.
Yeah, that's right.
He just liked the smell of it.
That's funny.
So, last thing here before we wrap up.
I feel like I have to react to this with you.
It's too funny for me.
So, what hearing is this?
I don't know where it's at.
Rob, go on this clip with because you tweeted something calling somebody out, right?
And then they're sitting right in front of you.
I think I just saw my chart at Kirk's Memorial, by the way, the other day.
If I'm not mistaken, Mark Wayne.
You know which one I'm talking about, Mark Wayne Mullen?
Yes.
Batfrex, he's going to be on my podcast on Monday.
Stop it.
Better bad idea.
Stop it.
So we have to play this clip.
Go ahead, Rob.
I kind of had a back and forth.
I appreciate your demeanor today.
It's quite different.
But after you left here, you got pretty excited about the keyboard.
In fact, you tweeted at me one, two, three, four, five times.
And let me read what the last one said.
It said, greedy CEO who pretends like he's self-made.
Sir, I wish he was in the truck with me when I was building my plumbing company myself.
And my wife was running the office because I sure remember working pretty hard in long hours.
Pretends like he's self-made.
What a clown.
Fraud.
Always has been, always will be.
Quick the tough guy act and these Senate hearings.
You know where to find me anyplace, anytime, cowboy.
Sir, this is a time.
This is a place.
If you want to run your mouth, we can be two consenting adults.
We can finish it here.
Okay, that's fine.
Perfect.
You want to do it now?
I'd love to do it right now.
Well, stand your butt up then.
You stand your butt up.
Oh, hold up.
No, stop it.
Say your solution, every public.
No, no, sit down.
You know, you're a United States Senate sector.
Okay, sit down.
Yeah, he was fired up.
Can I respond?
Hold it.
Hold it.
If we can't.
No, I have to go.
Look at the other people on the panel.
They were horrified.
Can I respond?
No, you can't.
This is a hearing.
And God knows the American people have enough contempt for Congress.
Let's talk about it.
I don't like works and jewels.
And that's who I am.
I don't like you because you describe yourself.
Hold it.
You have the mic.
You have time.
All right, just statement.
What happened afterwards?
Well, that was the second round.
There was round one where it was my first ever hearing testifying, and he attacked me with some.
You know, you do opposition research, and he starts hitting me with all this shit that wasn't true.
And I'm like, the only one I didn't have any opposition research on was this guy.
I never heard of him.
And so, like, he starts attacking me.
So I start attacking him back.
And then it popped off, and we were screaming and yelling at each other.
Then we leave there.
And, you know, media, I didn't think it was a big deal.
And then the media, you know, starts jumping on all this stuff.
I mean, they were doing clips all over the world.
And then, so we start going back and forth on social media, him and I.
And, you know, it was pretty funny.
And then, ironically, I have to do another hearing.
But after the first one, my mother calls me up and she says, oh my God, I saw you on TV today.
And I'm like, what are you talking about?
And she said, yeah, you were fighting with that senator.
And I'm like, oh, yeah, that guy, whatever.
And she goes, oh, it's real, real nice, real nice, Sean.
I go, why?
What do you mean?
She goes, you just got us all fucking audited.
Like, seriously, can't you behave?
And so, ironically, we have round two.
And then, you know what?
His chief of staff got with mine.
They're like, look, this isn't, this is getting out of hand.
And I actually met with him.
And we had a lot of conference, good conversation.
And we agreed to disagree on some things.
But I'll tell you what, he's a good guy, by the way.
He's not a bad guy.
Like, honestly, I've become friends with him.
You know, we work together.
And look, we're working together on this bipartisan legislation that's going to be called the Faster Labor Contracts Act, bipartisan support.
And I believe he's going to support it.
We've had some conversation, and it's going to be good for the American worker.
So, again, like we talked about earlier, something good came out of something that was bad at first.
So, now we have a friendship, we have a working relationship, and we just got to build upon them.
And you know what?
I even said to him, we've got to be better than this.
We've got to be better than this.
You're a U.S. Senator.
I run one of the strongest, most powerful labor organizations in the world.
Although people like the show, what did we really accomplish then?
What do you say?
He's not, he laughed, but I did say to him, You still think you can beat me?
He's not laughing.
He's an MMA guy.
He's got cauliflower is.
It would actually be a good fight.
I might have to bring a weapon, you know.
Yeah, I think he knows how to fight.
I think he knows how to fight.
Yeah, but you're a Boston guy.
Yeah, we all.
We all.
I always tell people, for me, like they were saying, he's got cauliflower is.
He's an MMA fighter.
I'm like, yeah, I know Irish karate.
Just put your head down and keep going until you can't go anymore, right?
So Monday, he's going to be on your podcast.
Monday, he's going to be on.
Better bad ideas, yes.
So we are going to put your, this is the podcast here.
Yes, it is.
This is Better Bad Ideas with Sean O'Brien.
Rob, let's put the link below as well.
Mr. Leader President of Teamsters, I want to say that correctly.
It's been a pleasure having you on.
Thank you so much, sir.
Really looking forward to the follow-up.
And I respect the way you lead.
I respect the way you lead.
I respect the fact that this is a very monumental moment for, I believe, for the Republican Party and what the president has done to bring this relationship of employer-employee that's like this to more here to have the president of Teamsters at RNC.
I think that's a massive statement to Americans that we can find ways to work together.
I think it's very, very important.
There's two things I just want to cover when you just prompted a thought.
So Republicans through the whole election were saying how they want to represent working people and they want to be the party for working people.
They've got to stand up and support some of our agenda, like the Faster Labor Contracts Act.
Democrats have some penance that they need to pay to American workers who feel they've been abandoned by them.
So I think it's a good time, especially in light of what's been going on.
But it's not just on the president of the United States.
It's not just on working people.
To actually be the representative of working people, we've got to focus and echo our thoughts to the leadership that's in charge now in the House, the Senate.
The Senate is important.
Congress is important.
And I always tell people, the Congress, Senate, and president, I look at it as three stops on the MBTA in Boston.
Congress, you get something passed there.
You work bipartisan, get it done.
The last stop, if you've got collaboration and a good sense of something that's going to help people, then the last stop should be signing off on all this stuff.
And we're going to be looking at the leadership in both those House and Senate to actually deliver on what they said on behalf of the party.
They want to represent working people.
Well, now's the time.
Support this legislation, demonstrate.
Fantastic.
Fantastic.
I think it's going in the direction where you're probably closer, especially the people that you have that are working on this with you.
I think Holly's a part of it, right?
Yeah, Holly's a part of it.
And Corey Booker is the Democratic sponsor as well.
But we've got.
It doesn't get better than Holly, by the way.
Oh, he's a quality guy.
That guy's never met him.
I just like to style.
Yeah, he's non-corruptible and he's got an unbelievable moral compass and he does the right thing.
I feel that way about him.
Thank you, sir.
Appreciate you.
Thank you, take care, buddy.
Nowadays, more than ever, the brand you wear reflects and represents who you are.
So, for us, if you wear a future looks bright hat or a value tame gear, you're telling the world, I'm optimistic, I'm excited about what's going to be happening, but you're a free thinker, you question things, you like debate.
And by the way, last year, 120,000 people got a piece of future looks bright gear with value tame.
We have so many new things.
The cufflinks are here.
New future looks bright.
This is my favorite, the green one.
Just yesterday, somebody placed an order for a hundred of these.
If you watch the PBD podcast, you got a bunch to choose from: white ones, black ones.
If you smoke cigars and you come to our cigar lounge, we have this high-quality lighter cutter and a holder for the cigars.
We got sweaters with the value tame logo on it.
We got mugs.
We got a bunch of different things.
But if you believe the future looks bright, if you follow our content and what we represent with value tamement, with PBD podcasts, go to vtmerch.com.
And by the way, if you order right now, there's going to be a special VT gift insight just for you.
