PBD - Patrick Bet-David - “Gallon of Vodka a Day” - Hunter Biden’s Baby Mother TELLS ALL | Lunden Roberts

June 21, 2024 - PBD - Patrick Bet-David

01:29:42

“Gallon of Vodka a Day” - Hunter Biden’s Baby Mother TELLS ALL | Lunden Roberts | PBD Podcast

Patrick Bet-David sits down one-on-one with Lunden Roberts, the mother of Hunter Biden's daughter. Lunden Roberts, a native of Batesville, Arkansas, gained public attention for her role as the mother of Hunter Biden's daughter, Navy Joan Roberts. Lunden, a former basketball player and student of forensic investigation, is now engaged to MMA fighter Princeton Foster and has written a tell-all book about her experiences with Hunter Biden. ---- Pre-order Lunden's book "Out of the Shadows: My Life Inside the Wild World of Hunter Biden": https://bit.ly/3XzWIrI Purchase the limited edition Stars & Stripes 4th of July VT Collection: https://bit.ly/3z6VaLM Purchase the new "Angry Patriot" t-shirt for $34.99 at VTMerch.com: https://bit.ly/4c3WsW2 Purchase tickets to The Vault Conference 2024 featuring Patrick Bet-David & Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson: https://bit.ly/3X1JBzm0h Timestamps: 00:00 - Lunden Roberts Intro 03:50 - Show Intro 04:20 - Patrick welcomes Lunden Roberts - the mother of Hunter Biden's 5-year-old daughter 05:48 - Lunden discusses how she met Hunter Biden 10:14 - First Impression of Hunter Biden 17:14 - Hunter High vs Hunter Sober 19:45 - When the relationship became physical 22:59 - Hunter's relationship with Joe 26:26 - Was she Hunter's girlfriend? 30:55 - How she told Hunter she was pregnant 40:06 - The relationship changing after she told Hunter she was pregnant 55:53 - Child Support 59:04 - Did she give Hunter a Heads up About the Book 1:04:20 - Has Joe Biden reached out? 1:06:26 - Her impression of Joe Biden 1:16:35 - Did Hunter Have Anyone To Trust? 1:25:50 - Ashley Biden's diary Connect one-on-one with the right expert for you on Minnect: https://bit.ly/3MC9IXE Connect with Patrick Bet-David on Minnect: https://bit.ly/3OoiGIC Connect with Rob Garguilo on Minnect: https://bit.ly/426IG0R Purchase Patrick's new book "Choose Your Enemies Wisely": https://bit.ly/41bTtGD Register to win a Valuetainment Boss Set (valued at over $350): https://bit.ly/41PrSLW Get best-in-class business advice with Bet-David Consulting: https://bit.ly/40oUafz Visit VT.com for the latest news and insights from the world of politics, business and entertainment: https://bit.ly/472R3Mz Visit Valuetainment University for the best courses online for entrepreneurs: https://bit.ly/47gKVA0 Text “PODCAST” to 310-340-1132 to get the latest updates in real-time! Get PBD's Intro Song "Sweet Victory" by R-Mean: https://bit.ly/3T6HPdY SUBSCRIBE TO: @VALUETAINMENT @vtsoscast @ValuetainmentComedy @bizdocpodcast @theunusualsuspectspodcast Want to be clear on your next 5 business moves? https://bit.ly/3Qzrj3m Join the channel to get exclusive access to perks: https://bit.ly/3Q9rSQL Download the podcasts on all your favorite platforms https://bit.ly/3sFAW4N Patrick Bet-David is the founder and CEO of Valuetainment Media. He is the author of the #1 Wall Street Journal Bestseller “Your Next Five Moves” (Simon & Schuster) and a father of 2 boys and 2 girls. He currently resides in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida.

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	You know, he's there at this little after party and I find him in the back room and people will never understand.
	I can sit here and tell you like what the paraphernalia that's in front of him and what he's doing and how it just, you know, intrigues me.
	And he'll go to the bathroom, you know, every 10, 15 minutes, like in public or if we're on the train or going somewhere.
	I don't think it was his bladder that took him to the bathroom.
	That consumption?
	Right.
	It just seems like, how?
	How are you still alive?
	Have you at all gotten a call from the president?
	Jill and I only want what is best for all of our grandchildren, including Navy.
	I have not.
	I have not gotten anything.
	I don't feel like Hunter ever felt like he got the love he deserved from anyone.
	And I feel like he was constantly looking for that in everyone.
	You're just thinking I'm crazy.
	I know.
	I see the look on your face.
	So when I was first approached with the idea of interviewing London Roberts and having her on the podcast, I was a little bit skeptical.
	She is the mother of Hunter Biden's daughter.
	They had a child together.
	They had a full-on one year plus year relationship.
	And when the story became public and then eventually DNA supported that this is actually Hunter Biden's daughter, I didn't know whether this was going to be a good idea or not.
	I watched a couple of her interviews.
	She seemed very reserved.
	I watched her interview with Megan Kelly.
	And then eventually, I said, you know what?
	Let's give it a shot.
	Brought her down, sat down, spoke to her, and she started telling stories.
	She told a story of one time when they were hanging out together.
	There's a knock on the door.
	Door opens.
	Hunter's actually on drugs, totally messed up, opens a door.
	At the front of the door is President Joe Biden.
	And she explained the experience, what it was like when he came back into the room.
	You have to see what she said about it.
	She broke down exactly how they met, how long they were together, intimate moments they had together, drugs, what the moment was like on how long they didn't speak.
	And the first time around, when she showed up surprising him at the deposition with a box that you're going to have to see what's in the box, there's going to be a moment where you're going to feel the pain of a mother wanting the daughter asking a question, when am I going to meet my father?
	And she's explaining a video where Hunter is reading a eulogy.
	And you're going to see this moment where, you know, the daughter is watching this video.
	And I'm not even going to spoil it for you.
	You have to watch it.
	This is not going to be what you expect this interview to be.
	This is not her trashing Hunter Biden, throwing the entire family under the bus.
	That is not what she did.
	She did not hold anything back.
	But your impression of why she thinks he is going through what she's going, he went through will be different.
	And there was a picture that was brought up when she said, I always wondered about this picture that's been public about the day President Biden was sworn in with the timing of it.
	Seems a little bit odd for me.
	Why would anybody do it at the time that he did it?
	You're going to have to watch it for yourself.
	And I hope this somehow, some way causes President Biden to invite his seventh grandchild to the White House or Delaware to actually meet because she does not deserve to live a life without ever meeting her grandfather.
	Whatever the son did, whatever the addictions he has, in this situation, London didn't do anything wrong.
	And President Biden's granddaughter, Navy, didn't do anything wrong.
	But we'll see what happened with it.
	If you haven't ordered a book, click on a link below to support it.
	However, having said that, enjoy this sit-down with London Roberts.
	30 seconds.
	So we have an interesting guest.
	I think that's qualified, right?
	To say an interesting guest.
	There is with an interesting story.
	She just released a book.
	Let me pull up this book here.
	Rob, can you go back up to it?
	So Out of the Shadows, okay, this is coming out in two months.
	My life inside the wild world of Hunter Biden.
	Okay.
	And that's London Roberts.
	London, it's great to have you on the podcast.
	Thank you for having me.
	Yes.
	It's great to be here.
	Yes, it's great to have you.
	So obviously, you know, we've read about you.
	We followed the story.
	You know, we've kind of gone through, hey, are you going to claim, are the DNA results going to come back?
	Is this real?
	Is this just the speculation?
	And then eventually DNA results come out.
	No, this is Hunter Biden's child, Navy.
	And then it even got to a point that I believe that the president had to respond on it, respond to it last year, July 28th.
	President Joe Biden made a statement acknowledging Navy, your daughter, his granddaughter, Hunter's daughter.
	Biden told people our son, Hunter, and Navy's mother, London, are working together to foster a relationship that is the best interest of their daughter, preserving her privacy as much as possible going forward.
	This is not a political issue.
	It's a family matter.
	Jill and I only want what is best for our grandchildren, including Navy, right?
	Right.
	So now everyone knows.
	It's no longer, it's a conspiracy.
	It's a hit job.
	It's all this other stuff.
	Okay.
	So let's back up on how you and Hunter first met.
	Well, you know, I talk in the book about being invited to an after-party with a friend who was invited to an after-party by someone, you know, she had met.
	And, you know, you hear this name, Hunter Biden, but I talk about that time.
	You know, I was out, I think.
	I talk about the like vodka tonic breath.
	You know, I wasn't in the best state.
	And I go.
	I've been there before, both of them.
	Yeah, many a time.
	And I go, not knowing who he is.
	And, you know, he's there at this little after party.
	And I find him in the back room.
	And people will never understand.
	I can sit here and tell you like what the paraphernalia that's in front of him and what he's doing and how it just, you know, intrigues me.
	And he's in these parrot boxer briefs that are brightly colored and you're just thinking I'm crazy.
	I know.
	I see the look on your face.
	In briefs.
	At a party.
	Well, you say party, but it's only like there's a few people there just kind of hanging out, having casual drinks.
	It's beautiful scenery.
	Did it look like something like that?
	No.
	It's not that much.
	The scarfing.
	It's too much.
	The scarf in that one is too much.
	The scarf.
	I'm just showing it.
	But it's more brief.
	He looks like he's one of the things that I'm talking about.
	Yeah, I got you.
	They're short.
	He's a little got some manners, at least first impression.
	Well, he didn't.
	I kind of barged in on him.
	You know, he was in the back room by himself.
	And I kind of barged in on him.
	I heard something and heard him say something, a bad word.
	And then I walk in.
	Yeah.
	And this is a house.
	No, it was at Rosemont Seneca.
	So it was the penthouse of the House of Sweden.
	So it was the.
	So what does this place look like, Rob?
	That was beautiful.
	Is it nice?
	Yeah.
	And it's like, it's like this glass, like cubicle building, and like the glass and everything had been like imported from Sweden.
	And where is this at?
	This is in D.C.
	It's on the waterfront.
	Oh, wow.
	Okay.
	In D.C.
	I don't know if it's considered Georgetown area.
	But it's definitely on the waterfront.
	Beautiful place.
	How long ago was this?
	When I met him?
	Yeah.
	End of 2016.
	Okay.
	Okay, we're talking about eight years ago.
	Yeah.
	And my daughter's, she'll be six in August.
	Oh, so the relationship went on for a while.
	It wasn't like it was just a, you know, week or two weeks.
	Oh, no.
	Yeah.
	But I talk about, you know, Hunter and his addiction and how he comes and he goes.
	That was part of, you know, and it's a quality and a trait that a lot of addicts have.
	You know, they show up randomly.
	And, you know, there'd be times he might be gone for two, three weeks and then pop back up.
	And I talk a funny story in the book, for example, is like he pops back up and he knew that like one of my favorite quotes is not all who wonder are lost.
	And he like comes in, he's like, look at my socks.
	And he pulls his pants up and he has socks on that say, not all who wonder are lost.
	And I said, could have fooled me.
	Where the hell you been?
	I thought you were lost for the last few weeks.
	You know, I hadn't seen you.
	But yeah, that's how.
	Is that the property?
	It is.
	Okay.
	And the top floor up there is where his office was.
	Okay.
	So now you go into the room.
	You're hearing say some curse words.
	And then what happens there?
	Is everybody that's at the party five, 10, 15, 20 people?
	What's the size of the?
	Five to ten.
	Okay, so smaller groups.
	Yeah, and there was like the front, like there's like when you walk in, like the hallway, and then there's like a conference room that goes out onto the balcony up there.
	And at nighttime, it's lit up beautifully.
	It's like got this like gold.
	You see, yeah, like the amber lighting.
	It's beautiful.
	And it overlooks the Potomac.
	And you can see like the Kennedy Center and the Watergate and all that.
	Now, why are you there?
	Are you there because you're there to hang out?
	You're there to party.
	My friend had met a guy that night and he was going there.
	And so she wanted to go, but didn't want to go by herself.
	And so she just called me up and I'm going there to what?
	Going there to just chill, just hang out, have a good time.
	Yeah.
	No more having drinks and like just a place to chill.
	What time is this?
	Is this like 10 o'clock, 9 o'clock, midnight?
	It's like midnight at one.
	I mean, typically at midnight, if I'm going to a house, penthouse, you know, we're not going there to read books.
	You know what I'm saying?
	We're probably going to.
	No, everybody was drinking, just having a good time.
	But it wasn't like no loud college party or nothing.
	What was the first impression he gave you?
	Was he charming, likable, flirtatious?
	What was he like?
	The first thing that caught my eye was his eyes.
	He had the most beautiful eyes.
	But you know how they say, Shakespeare, is it that says the eyes are the window to the soul?
	And you can tell by looking at him, he's somebody who is, there's so much back there, complex, I guess you would say.
	And you can tell that.
	Is it pain?
	Is it childlike?
	Help me.
	It was almost like pain.
	And I talk about, you know, throughout the book, like I have this great empathy.
	It's probably a bad trait, but I felt it immediately looking into his eyes.
	And, you know, it was like, hey, you know, how are you?
	And he's like, instantly just starts talking like he's known me forever.
	And we sit down and engage in conversation.
	He's really easy to talk to.
	And so that was it.
	That was the first time.
	Nothing happened first night.
	No.
	Okay.
	And conversation is about what?
	At this point, do you know who he is?
	Do you have an idea how important he is?
	Well, we're sitting there talking.
	He introduces himself and he tells me his name.
	And, you know, he's, I talk throughout the book about how, you know, you assume people that use that amount of drugs and you see the pictures on the laptop and stuff.
	But he was like almost like a banker as like organized as he had it set up.
	Like it wasn't like he had OCD with everything was like compartmentalized and everything.
	Like it's not like he's an organized drug.
	Yeah.
	Very structure systematic.
	He doesn't want the meth touching the Coke.
	Like don't go near.
	You know what I mean?
	Like they can't touch each other.
	So, but the conversation, did you know this is the former?
	Because at the time, 2016, President Biden is a former vice president, right?
	So it's not like he is in the limelight as much as he's been the last few years because at his father's out of the limelight, et cetera, et cetera.
	Is he telling you, you know, who my father is?
	Like, does that?
	No, it actually happened like midway through conversation.
	We had been talking.
	He's asking, he asked my accent and then, you know, mocks it and he's laughing at it and stuff.
	And I'm mocking his because I always say that he has like this high-pitched like twang that I guess it's a Delaware accent.
	I don't know.
	But me and my friends used to joke with him all the time about his accent.
	But as we're sitting there talking, I'm in this chair and it has like a wooden type chair and it has the arms kind of like this, but wooden.
	And there's a label on the side of it.
	And it's like a gold label.
	And it said Senator Barack Obama and it had like the years that he served in the Senate.
	And I was like, is this Senator Barack Obama's?
	Is this the president's chair?
	And like, I stand up and I'm looking at it.
	And then it resonates, you know, who his father.
	I was like, how do you have this chair?
	You know, what's what?
	How did you get this?
	He's like, oh, it was a gift.
	And he's kind of laughing it off, like, no big deal.
	And then when it resonates, and I say, oh my God, is that your dad?
	Like, do you know him?
	And he's like, yeah, you know, that's my dad.
	And it was just as humble.
	And I googled it, of course.
	I'm like, no, no way.
	And, you know, it was.
	So your friend isn't like, hey, we're going to go to this place and you're going to meet Joe Biden's son.
	That's not what she said when you got no.
	We knew that there was somebody there of some form who were also at the House of Sweden.
	So I didn't know if it was some.
	I got it.
	And the front.
	And the friend, your female friend that came with the guy, was the guy in politics or in that world, or he was just a successful guy or who was that?
	I can't tell you much about that person.
	I don't know.
	I don't know anything.
	I think, I don't even know how he was invited because I didn't see anybody really interact with Hunter other than me and my friend.
	So now when you guys leave, what's the next time you guys connect?
	Well, he gets my number from Kindle.
	Well, I think I changed names in the book.
	It's all good.
	Okay.
	So he gets my number and we actually have car trouble that next morning.
	And she calls the number to the party and it's him.
	And he sends someone down like from this little, there was a small mechanic shop not far.
	And they came and fixed, she had something with her battery.
	They fixed it.
	And then, you know, take off.
	He comes down there.
	And that's how, you know, he ended up getting my number from her as we were talking.
	But we talk on and off for, you know, like a week or two.
	And then I see him again.
	He comes, I think he was out of town.
	And then he comes back and we met up.
	Go ahead.
	He asked, you know, if he could see me.
	And so we met at, well, the house of Sweden outside.
	I didn't go in.
	He met me outside and we went to just like a little Georgetown bar.
	How was that?
	It was just like it was the first night.
	Like he, the waitress comes over, you know, she talks and he's talking and he's engaging in conversation with her.
	He talks something about her bracelet.
	And then I notice, you know, he wears a like a silver bracelet.
	It's like a band, kind of like this, except it's wider.
	And I used to always think it looked like the what would Jesus do fish emblem all the way around it.
	And so he tells her some story about it, but I got lost in the moment because I'm sitting here like she has no clue who he is.
	Like he doesn't come off as somebody of any importance or like my dad's the vice president or my dad, well, now the president.
	You know, he didn't come off that way.
	And he's sitting there talking to this girl.
	She has no clue who he is, you know, and he just seems so humble.
	He seemed humble.
	Yeah, you know, you would think he would seem like entitled, kind of arrogant.
	And I guess that's what a lot of people claim that they see through the media and stuff.
	And he did not come off that way.
	Maybe the wristband he had on that says WWJD, maybe it is.
	What would Joe do?
	Yeah.
	Well, it doesn't say it looked like a skimbling.
	What would Joe do?
	But going back to it, so the humble side.
	So you've seen a side that we've not seen.
	So, and just listening to, even in the first eight minutes, just listen to you.
	Sounds like you like him.
	This is a guy you like.
	Sounds like he's a likable guy and you enjoyed your times with him.
	So you're actually attracted to him physically as well as personality-wise at this point.
	Okay.
	I was.
	He seemed larger than life.
	You know, when you're young, dumb, and naive.
	And I would never say that he took advantage of that.
	But he seemed larger than life, you know?
	So of course, you're intrigued by that.
	Or I was anyways.
	Can I ask you guys a question about?
	So is he, because I'm pretty sure you, because at the first time you saw him, he was doing drugs and there was drugs around him, paraphernalia.
	Do you think that personality, that talking that, hey, look at that?
	Is that him being acting high, number one?
	And then number two, is there any security with him while he's going out at this time?
	This is 2016.
	He's just riding solo.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	You think he's, is he, is he partying at all?
	Do you know if he's high when he's hanging out with you?
	Because I mean, he was at the house.
	Well, see, I talked throughout the book about how he'll go to the bathroom, you know, every 10, 15 minutes, like in public or if we're on the train or going somewhere, you know, whether it's Union Station or wherever we're at, you know, he'll go to the bathroom and then come back.
	And, you know, I don't think it was his bladder that took him to the bathroom.
	That often.
	I think even one time you said, I want to say you said this in the book, where it's, you know, he at one point, he used to go and, you know, drink a gallon of vodka a day, smoking crack cocaine frequently.
	There was days that he was doing it 15 to 20 minutes at a time.
	Wow.
	Gallon of vodka.
	Yeah.
	And that's crazy, right?
	That consumption.
	Right.
	It just seems like, how?
	How are you still alive?
	And there were times we would talk about it and he would tell me, you know, I'll outlive you.
	I'll outlive you.
	Yeah.
	He's telling you.
	Yeah.
	Like he's like, nothing can bring me down.
	So he feels he's untouchable.
	Well, at that time, you know, with all everything that he was consuming, he didn't feel like it was like, but that was his deflection.
	He deflected a lot.
	You know, like when you, if you try to tell someone that they have an issue or they have a problem, he would deflect.
	Avoid or deflect.
	Participate with them with the drugs or no?
	Was it mainly him?
	Well, now I talk about, you know, in the book, how I'm no saint.
	I was young.
	And, you know, I partied a lot and drank a lot and tried a whole lot of things, but I never had an addictive personality.
	And so far, like, I think the only thing I've ever been addicted to is red flags.
	Red flags.
	Yeah.
	Red flagged guys.
	Red flagged men.
	Very, very interesting.
	So this time around, this is two weeks.
	He comes, he helps out, sends somebody to come help out your friend's battery in the car, get the number, and then you guys go out to a bar.
	You're having a good conversation.
	He's talking to the waitress or the bartender, just having small talk.
	He's wearing this bracelet.
	What would Joe Biden do?
	And then we're going through this whole thing.
	And at what point does it get intimate where it's actually a relationship, physical relationship?
	Just that day at the bar.
	Yes.
	Okay.
	We go to, I believe it was the Ritz Carlton in the Georgetown area.
	And we go there and I stay with him.
	He's got like this little open bar, you know, that comes with his room.
	And we're just there talking.
	And I talk about how that was, you know, my first hit of Hunter.
	Your first hit of Hunter.
	You say that in the book.
	That's the chapter.
	Okay.
	How was the first hit of Hunter?
	Wait, what are we talking about?
	What are we talking about?
	Are we talking about the date?
	Both.
	How was the first hit with Hunter?
	Was it something where, because at this point, you know, is this guy a guy that's partied so hardcore?
	Because, you know, there's certain people that go through phases of partying.
	Some people don't graduate it.
	Some people do for the rest of their lives and they can't stop partying, right?
	But, you know, just like anything else, you party a lot.
	You become better at it.
	Was he fun?
	Did you have a good time with him?
	Oh, yeah, very fun.
	Okay.
	Very, very fun.
	But there was, you know, I don't feel like Hunter did it to party and to, you know, like not, didn't outgrow his partiers or at Georgetown or whatever.
	He did it, I think, to try to numb this hurt that he had and that he, you know, he'd lost Bo.
	He's been through tragedies in his life.
	And I think that he just had so much.
	I've read, and I know this is probably something you shouldn't do is ever read somebody's journal.
	But I read one time in his journal, you know, where he was talking about, it was in his office and it was one of the days I had to clean.
	I was cleaning out his office at Rosemont Seneca.
	And, you know, you have to pick what do I think he'll want to keep?
	What I think he'll not want to keep.
	And he like, you know, it journaled and kept so much.
	And I flipped one open to see what it is.
	And of course, he's talking about like the mind and how it's, you know, an idle mind is the devil's workshop.
	And he goes on talking about that.
	And it made me think that, you know, a lot of times he did those things because there was just that idle mind in the devil's workshop.
	Did he ever talk about his father with you?
	Would that come up or not at all?
	Like, you know, would he say, you know, did you ever ask the question, what's your relationship with your dad?
	Was there any talks about him?
	Well, I mean, yes and no.
	Like there were times, you know, I don't know if y'all remember the memes that came out.
	You know, there was a bunch of memes when Joe and Obama were in office.
	They had all like the, like, their bromance memes and stuff, which we thought were funny.
	And me and mine and Hunter's mutual friends would like bring them up.
	Like we'd be on his laptop looking them up and laughing.
	And he, you know, he didn't think any of those were really funny.
	Sometimes he'd mock us and laugh, but But he's like, he doesn't like to feel like his family's being made a mockery of.
	Was he protective of his father?
	I would say so.
	I would say, you know, I think that I think that Hunter felt like a disappointment in a lot of ways to his family.
	And I think that bothered him really bad because he wanted to make his dad proud.
	And at one time he talked, he told me a story about like growing up how, you know, like he was the kid that would get in trouble and Bo was like the saint and they like called him like general or chief or something like that or sheriff or it was some, they gave him some name like that that he talked about.
	And he said that, you know, parents knew like if their kids were with Bo, they would be doing the right thing.
	And he's like, and if they were me, they'd probably get in trouble.
	Like he would make, you know, little things like that that I think, I think bothered him because I think that he did want to do good, but I think he just had so many demons.
	Normally when you're in a situation like this, you know, half the time you're not looking for money.
	You're not looking for fame.
	You're not looking for any of that stuff.
	You're looking to be left alone and you want somebody to have a conversation with where you feel safe, right?
	You want me to talk to somebody?
	Did he ever feel that level of comfort with you where he spoke to you and opened up?
	Yes, but you know, Hunter, Hunter, like I talk about, I talk about our first kiss in the book and how, you know, his lips, they were so hard.
	And it was like the shell, you know, like he, he had walls put up.
	I'm sure from everything that he's gone through and you know who his family is, you probably have to do that.
	But like, for example, Hallie had told me one time that Haley.
	Hallie?
	This is Bo's wife.
	Bo's widow.
	Yeah.
	She had told me one time that she's like, Hunter trusts you.
	Like whatever it is, like I don't know why, but like he'll talk to you and he'll he'll trust you.
	Like if you talk to him, if you can.
	And when she confided me and told me that, she told me that that doesn't come easy.
	Like that's something that like Hunter doesn't do.
	I bet.
	And so, you know, that was another reason when I got pregnant, I felt like I'd let him down because, you know, it was this burden.
	I became a problem to him.
	And I was somebody that I felt and other people felt like, you know, he could trust.
	Very interesting.
	So from the first day you meet him upstairs in a penthouse to you getting pregnant, what's the timeline there?
	Over a year.
	Over a year.
	Got it.
	So over the year, how many encounters or how many times did you spend time with him?
	Oh, multiple.
	10, 20, 50?
	I don't even know if I, I don't know if I could put a number on it.
	Lots.
	I mean, he would show up and he'd be there for, you know, three, four, five days.
	And then he might go ghost for three weeks.
	Maybe hours.
	Then he might be there for three weeks.
	How many days would you say you spend with him?
	Days, if you were to say, in that one year, 50 days, 100 days?
	Yeah, somewhere between there, probably.
	Okay, that's a lot.
	That's a lot of days.
	So if he's traveling, he's coming back.
	He's coming back to you and you guys are together.
	And at this time, when you got, so a year later, you get pregnant.
	When you get pregnant at this point with the relationship, has he ever, you know, are you guys talking like you're his girlfriend?
	What's the conversation like?
	How does he view you?
	How do you view him?
	Who are you to him?
	You know, that's difficult to explain.
	And that's something that, you know, I think reading the book is probably difficult to explain because Hunter and I had been seeing each other.
	And then a couple months later, you know, it comes out that he's dating his sister-in-law.
	And I was shocked and it kind of hurt.
	I didn't know, you know, but I knew, also knew that I probably wasn't the only, it's not like we were, you know, this official relationship or anything like that.
	We were just, I talk about being like detached from my feelings.
	And, you know, that I had commitment phobia anyways, always have.
	And so it's difficult to explain, but like, like get off the phone, you know, I love you.
	I love you too.
	You know, like it was never, it was, it was that connection was there, but there was never no like boyfriend, girlfriend.
	I kind of always knew after it came out in the tabloids, you know, that him and Hallie were in a relationship.
	But it's, it, it seemed more of like an open type relationship and it seemed more toxic.
	Like they were more on and off too.
	Now, does the media at this point know who you are or they still don't know who you are?
	Like, is anybody following you?
	They're going.
	So how did he, as the son of a former vice president, how does he get around without people paparazzi coming or like were you guys, did you ever have a paparazzi moment with him or no?
	No, there was one time that we were on our way to a bar in Georgetown.
	We were walking and I remember a guy like got his phone up and I didn't, I wasn't used to that.
	And so I didn't know that he was possibly taking a picture of Hunter.
	And I could tell that it bothered him, but that was nothing that I'd ever been aware of or, because I'm telling you, like he would blend so well.
	Like the time we'd go out to bars and he would just talk to people and people wouldn't know who he is.
	All they'd say, you know, is he's Hunter.
	Sometimes you'd tell him he's Robert.
	Yeah.
	You know, like, so no, like there are people, he just blended.
	It's interesting.
	When the part where you say, you know, one day he told me, he said, hey, I think you and Hallie will get along.
	You'll like her a lot.
	You'll really like her.
	Was he kind of like insinuating that, hey, maybe the three of us can, you know, have some fun together?
	Was he suggesting that at all or no?
	You know, I don't know.
	That never happened.
	Okay.
	But what do you mean that never, that he never said you would like Hallie or the fact that the three of you guys?
	That the three of us something together, like a thruple.
	Some call it three, some thruple, whatever you want to call it.
	Yeah, totally.
	It happens every once in a while.
	So that never happened with the three of you.
	Okay.
	No, I've met her.
	But no, and I talk about through the book, you know, like from the outside looking in, like I even tried to, you know, be a mediator in one of their arguments.
	And it seemed, you know, it just seemed more toxic.
	It seemed like two people that had relied on each other during a really dark time and then just kind of had to ride that wave.
	Did you think at all it was weird that he is dating his, you know, dead brother's widow wife?
	When you say that, that's weird, right?
	For sure.
	I mean, for sure.
	But in, but young, dumb, naive.
	And I think that it was part of like the Hunter package.
	Like it just seemed, seemed normal.
	But yeah, you say that.
	I know it sounds crazy.
	Did you meet her?
	So here's my question.
	When you met her, did you know that that was his, like, were they already hooking up when you met her?
	Was it like, hey, this is my, this is Bo, my dead brother's widow.
	And they were already hooking up.
	Yeah, I met her after it had already come out in the media that they were seeing each other.
	Wow.
	Okay.
	And, you know, he made it seem to me like it was sort of an open relationship.
	And, you know, he also made me aware that like the media might have the wrong impression of what went down.
	And so he kind of, he kind of downplayed it.
	Yeah.
	I mean, there's no, there's, I don't think the media could, I mean, it is what it is.
	You're sleeping with your dead brother's wife.
	That's, I don't think there's any way to spin it anyway than what it is.
	It's a little weird.
	So, okay, so let's let's continue.
	So you're, you find out you're pregnant.
	What do you do?
	You call him, you tell him we have to meet up, you text him.
	How did you tell him the news?
	Well, so first, I don't tell him for a while because I'm so scared.
	I'm nervous.
	Well, I say a while, but I mean, it's just like a couple weeks.
	But I'm so nervous.
	And because you hear all these conspiracy theorists about how they feel about politics and how, you know, they'll make these scandals just disappear or something like that.
	And then I felt like I had become a scandal.
	And so I was so scared to tell him because I knew him as Hunt.
	So we all called him.
	You know, it was, but I talk in the book.
	I wasn't scared of Hunt.
	I was scared of Hunter Biden and his reaction, you know, as who his dad is and taking all that into consideration because now I'm a scandal.
	So it was tough.
	I didn't tell him at first.
	And then I talked, I have complications, you know, and I think it was just stress-induced complications early in the pregnancy.
	And I actually invite someone to my house to have a conversation.
	And he is someone that I had met through mutual friends.
	And he's actually, you know, a friend of Obama.
	And well-known person or no?
	Well-known in that area, maybe.
	Locally, probably not nationally.
	And, you know, I tell him I need, I need to talk to him about something.
	I need some advice.
	And he's like, okay, because I trusted, I trusted him.
	And he said, okay, yeah, just come to the office.
	I was like, no, I need, like, can't be at the office.
	I don't want anything reported.
	I didn't want to take that chance because you become paranoid.
	And so he came over to my house and was like, what, what's wrong?
	And I said, it was on his lunch break because he realized then that it was an emergency.
	And he's like, okay, like, send me your address.
	I'll be right there.
	And so he comes in.
	He's like, okay, what's wrong?
	And I said, and now, mind you, you know, he's an attorney.
	He actually went and studied at Harvard with Obama, knew the family, knew politics well.
	And so I said, I'm pregnant.
	And he just looked at me and he said, well, I assume I know who the father is.
	I said, yes.
	And he's like, well, at least it's not a Clinton.
	Wow, really?
	That's really the first thing.
	That's what he said.
	He said, well, at least it's not a Clinton.
	And he said, the Bidens are known to, you know, embrace their family, love their family.
	They're very family oriented.
	And he said, it could be a good thing, you know, and people at that time that knew Hunter, knew his addictions, like, maybe it could bring him out of this dark place.
	But it didn't.
	So meaning, if it is a Clinton, your life may be on the line type of a deal.
	Yeah, he said it jokingly, but I mean.
	Well, I mean, there's only one Clinton you can get pregnant with.
	Like, really can't get it done, right?
	So, okay.
	So, he's telling you this.
	Is he at all getting to a point where asking you whether you want to keep the baby, whether you want to abort the baby?
	That conversation is not at all being had.
	No, I had not had that conversation yet.
	So, I talked to him, this guy, this attorney, and then I also talked to I call it the Amoeba or Amoeba Pack.
	And it was me and we had two other friends that we'd hang out with all the time with Hunter.
	I brought them around him a lot because I trusted them.
	And I talk about the friends that I would bring around him had to be people that I trusted because I didn't want them to go off and tell everyone about what he's suffering from and this demon on his back.
	And so I tell my closest one.
	And of course, she's just like, oh, oh, my God.
	Like, you know, it's just, how did this, how did this, well, we all know how it happened, but at the same time, it's just like.
	Science.
	Right.
	You got to trust the science.
	Is that what she says?
	But why?
	Yeah.
	And so it was a very confusing time.
	She tells me, she says, I'll, I'll go with you.
	And I avoid him.
	I talk throughout the book.
	Like I even, I avoid him.
	And he even contacts her and my other friends.
	Like, what is going on?
	And so finally, I go see him.
	And I'm like, okay, I'm going to tell him.
	And I take my friend with me as backup.
	She's like, okay, she's like, I'll make the move to go to the bathroom.
	And when I make that move, like you.
	She's hung out with him.
	So is this the same girl from day one or is it the same girl that you guys went?
	Okay.
	Yes.
	So she's safe.
	He feels safer on that.
	Yes.
	Okay.
	Got it.
	And so we're all in there just talking and stuff.
	And he mentions like, what's been going on?
	Like, what's this big thing?
	And she finds her cue, like, to go to the bathroom.
	She just like kind of looks at me.
	And I don't know if you, are you fans of like the friends TV show at all?
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	So big.
	We're all 40s.
	So, you know, we, we, we follow.
	I mean, he watched every episode.
	So me too, multiple times.
	Okay.
	Okay.
	I always say that when I tell him, it was a lot like when Rachel tells Ross that she's pregnant.
	Okay.
	And it's like that just look.
	Yeah, he's gone.
	Yeah, the what.
	And he doesn't say anything.
	And I'm just like, and it's yours, by the way, like if there's any question, but I'm just like going to let you process that.
	And he's like, honey, I know it's mine.
	Like, and goes into this.
	I know it's mine.
	I want you to know, you know, I respect whatever decision it is you make.
	And I'll be there spiritually, financially, mentally, whatever it is.
	He's like, have you thought about this?
	Have you, you know, what do you want?
	And I told him, I was like, abortion would be something that would be off the table.
	And I said, the only reason I would ever consider it would be because of who you are.
	And that's not, I wouldn't be able to live with myself for that.
	And he was totally okay with it.
	What do I need to do?
	What can I do?
	He's saying this to you.
	Yeah.
	And so, you know, it seemed that night was great.
	And then, you know, there were a few nights after, but it was, I start going and having these crazy amounts of ultrasounds done at Sneaky Peak because I'm like, this, it can't be real.
	Like, even though.
	You don't believe that this is really happening?
	No.
	Like the night that I took the tests, like the next day or that next week, whenever it opened, I'd go to have an ultrasound done.
	So I'm like, this can't be right.
	Like there's no way God would put me in this situation.
	And I take my friend with me, my trusted friend, and she laughs to this day because, you know, the woman does the ultrasound and she tells me, you know, here's, you know, shows me what's what and everything.
	And I'm like, are you sure?
	But are you sure?
	And she finally, like, she's offended.
	She's like, I've been doing this for 25 years.
	It is.
	You're pregnant.
	Get out.
	Yeah.
	Like, but it just, it didn't seem real.
	And it was really hard for me to accept, I felt like.
	And I did a lot of that before I even met with him.
	So at this time, no weird friends being sent to have a conversation with you.
	You sure you want to do this?
	Life's going to be very difficult.
	Do you want the scrutiny?
	Do you want the pressure?
	Is anybody, not Hunter, is anybody else trying to influence you to make a different decision?
	No.
	Nobody.
	No.
	You thought about it.
	Where did you go?
	You just thought about it.
	No, like I think about, you know, me and my friend having that discussion.
	We have a discussion one night in the car.
	Your friend.
	Well, and his friend, the same one.
	Okay.
	The Barack Obama guy.
	No, the mutual friend, the girl.
	There was no...
	The one from the first night.
	The two of you.
	Yeah, just the two of her.
	Okay.
	The two of her.
	Two of us.
	And, you know, we talk about it.
	And I kind of say the same thing that I said to him.
	Abortion would be off the table for me, and like the only way that that even comes to mind is because of who you are and that I can't.
	I I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I did that.
	I couldn't do that.
	Now, when you've made this decision and he knows um, from the first moment you meet him to getting pregnant that's one year, from the moment you getting pregnant you find out to telling him is two weeks you meet with the uh, Barack Obama friend from Harvard.
	He tells you the Bidens are better than the Clintons, which is what a weird thing to say, but great.
	So he seems like a gentle guy that he's not trying to persuade you to do otherwise.
	Then you and your friend have a meeting.
	Then you and your friend go and tell him.
	Then he says i'll support you spiritually financially morally, in every way.
	Then you go do the ultrasound.
	You piss off the nurse.
	She kicks you out.
	Well, I actually did the ultrasound like before I met with him.
	Okay, I did it like as soon as I found out, because i'm like this can't be and i've got all these tests laid out on the table that say positive, and i'm like no, did anything with the relationship change gradually.
	From you saying you're going to keep the baby, was there still physical encounters or did it kind of like he's no longer available, he no longer sees you as much or nothing's changed.
	No, we were still seeing each other.
	Okay, got it.
	You know how it the couple days, and then I might not see him for a few and i'm texting him and um, you know, one of the times I saw him, I think when the relationship changed, is when um, you know, I told him he was staying in Annapolis at the time and I had told him that I would do a sneak, a peek to hear the baby.
	It was like the first time to hear the baby's heartbeat and he should be there.
	You know you, you said you wanted to support me right, and so I tell him.
	And then my friend also, you know hey, don't forget, because she had seen him, she had to go pick something up or something seems like.
	Hey, don't forget.
	It's like tomorrow, or it was the next day, or might have been that morning, I can't remember.
	And I showed up and I listened to my baby's heartbeat and he never showed, never got a call, nothing.
	And then it was like just days later.
	You know it was an apology and I know I was wrong and i'm just, you know, in a bad place and i'm so sorry.
	You know excuses.
	And then did you, did he continue seeing?
	Or was a steady decline, or was it a sudden decline?
	It was.
	It was a steady decline at that moment, probably for just a little bit, and then it was nothing done.
	So when is the last time you and him had a text exchange?
	Oh, what would be the date?
	Probably march, I believe it would be.
	Oh i'm, I thought you were talking about during that time.
	Well yeah, I mean when it was a sudden done.
	Like, is he at all not responding back to nothing?
	Oh, that was while i'm pregnant.
	Yeah, That timeline, right?
	So find out I'm pregnant.
	It's like first week of January.
	It's the steady decline.
	It would be March or April, last I heard from him.
	Till today.
	No, not till today, just during that time.
	So from March, April, the last time you hear from him to you having the baby and actually delivering the baby, do you hear from him at all during that time?
	No, that's what I'm saying.
	From the March, April time that I spoke with him and talked with him to having the baby, no communication.
	So nothing.
	Yeah, so it's like six months, right?
	Give or take seven, eight months.
	Okay.
	So then the baby is born.
	Does he at all come to want to see the baby or not at all?
	No, there's no conversation with him.
	So from the from that March, April till today, you guys have never spoken, never text, no phone calls.
	No, not till today.
	But at that point, like, you know, the baby's born.
	He is not, he has to be.
	I run at all.
	So when is the first time after the baby is born that he calls, reaches out, or wants to see the baby?
	He doesn't until the child support dispute last year.
	That was the first time I went, I surprised him at his deposition.
	You know, you have these, you have depositions, and I had done mine that week, and his was like on that Thursday or Friday.
	Well, it just happened to be Father's Day that weekend.
	So I set my child down.
	And at this point, you know, she's what, four, going on five, and she knows who her dad is.
	She doesn't quite understand why he's not there, but she sees other children with a mom and a dad.
	And so, you know, I thought in the book, I put all these stories about the moment I had to tell her about her dad, how she reacted, you know, the questions that the hard questions that I had to answer to her.
	And the deposition, back to the deposition, I go, but a couple nights before I tell her, I say, and I don't tell her that he's coming to Arkansas because how do you tell her?
	I've been making these excuses that, well, he just lives so far away and he's so busy.
	How do I tell her he's coming to Arkansas and I'm going to see him?
	And you still never met him.
	And so, and you know, at this, I'm also telling her, you know, but he loves you from a distance.
	I do, I tell her that all the time, I instilled that in her.
	And I had told her, you know, how great he was.
	And because I don't want, if, if she hates him someday or if she has any ill feelings towards him someday, it will be because of him and not because of me.
	I won't do that to her.
	You don't give me those vibes at all.
	Like there is, I don't sense any vindictiveness or animosity towards him from the second you came to now, even off camera.
	You've been very straight up and sincere about how you feel about him.
	So now, at this point, when you guys are negotiating, when you guys are talking about the, what do you call it, the child support, this is when you agree to go from $20,000 a month to $5,000 a month.
	Yeah, so it was that deposition.
	It all changed that deposition when I showed up because I told Navy that, you know, I said, it's Father's Day weekend.
	If you want to make your dad something, I will send it to him.
	I didn't tell her I was going to personally.
	You didn't take Navy, though.
	You didn't take Navy with me.
	I couldn't take her to.
	That would have been traumatic for her.
	Thank you.
	Probably all of us at that moment.
	No question.
	But more importantly, the child is, you know, it's going to be a bigger effect on her.
	Of course, on everybody, but on her, it'd be different because it's younger.
	It's going to have an impression on her.
	So you see him.
	He doesn't know you're coming.
	Deposition.
	What's his reaction when he sees you?
	Well, so I get there and I've got this box.
	I let Navy make him something.
	And she made him like, she drew him a picture of him and her and they were as potato heads.
	And I had to write as potato heads because they were both orange.
	And I thought, this looks real similar to like Donald Trump.
	And I don't want him to get the wrong impression.
	So I want to let him know that these are potato heads and that's the color she chose.
	She has good sense.
	And so I have to ride it, you know, in the corner, me and my dad as potato heads and quotation rights.
	And I gathered pictures of her from the first years, first five years of her life, almost five at the point.
	And I put it all in this big white box and I walked into depositions.
	My attorney walks up to me before and, you know, Hunter's in the back with his attorneys.
	And he says, Hunter had no clue you were coming.
	Like, they're flustered.
	They don't know why you're here.
	And I was like, well, what he doesn't know, I guess he thought that I was there to listen to the deposition.
	But what he doesn't know was I was there just to give him that box.
	I told my daughter that she could make him something for Father's Day.
	And that was the first engagement that she could ever have with her father.
	And it meant the world to her to sit there and watch her.
	She made him a bracelet.
	You know, and that itself, I was going to get that box to him one way or another.
	She was fixing to be five.
	She was fixing.
	Oh, she remembered.
	You were, you know, it's an age where it's an impression.
	You know, you can communicate at this point.
	You can make stuff.
	You can do, I mean, my kid's doing that at two and a half, let alone five years old.
	Okay.
	So what's his reaction when you give him the box?
	Well, he comes in the room and like I'm sitting there with my attorneys and they're telling me like they don't understand why you're there.
	Well, there was a couple, couple of reasons I was there.
	The box.
	And then there were, there was some things like, you know, no, it was made public that, you know, he had no recollection of me and things like that.
	And so there was some questions I wanted answered.
	And I wanted my attorney to ask some of those questions.
	And I wanted to be there and have him sit across the table from me and say it to my face.
	And so I wanted to first, you know, give the box.
	So he comes in.
	He's like, hey, how are you doing?
	Good.
	Fine.
	And he sits down.
	And, you know, my attorney says, off the record, there's something my client wants to give, you know, Hunter.
	And I stand up and I remember, you know, this, I haven't talked to this man.
	I've seen him in court one time.
	And I remember thinking that he didn't look like the man that I once knew.
	And I said, you know, call me Trump.
	Where's Hunter?
	That does not look like Hunter, that man that I saw in court that day.
	And I, of course, avoided him, but I remember standing up with the box and my hands were shaking and my voice was shaking.
	And I told him, I said, this might not mean anything to you, but it means the world to our daughter.
	And that's why I'm here today to make sure that you get this.
	And I told him, I said, she's made you some things.
	I've also got pictures in there of her of the first five years of her life.
	And I also have a bunch of videos.
	I have a folder completely in my phone that's for HB, you know, to send anytime if he wants videos, anything.
	He's missed out on so much.
	And she's absolutely spectacular.
	You have children, you know, it's, it's, it's, you can't get that time back.
	And so I wanted to do that for her.
	And I handed him the box and you can tell this look on his face.
	He's like confused.
	Like, is this a trap?
	You know, like she's do, she's being nice.
	And he just gets it and he says, thank you.
	And then he sets it on the shelf behind him.
	And I'm like, you're not even going to open the damn box.
	So I got offended.
	I was mad.
	And then my attorney starts the deposition asking, you know, some tough questions.
	And finally, like Hunter, you know, he just looks at me and he's like, can we talk?
	And I said, yes, I would be open to that.
	And I was actually texting my attorney beside me, like, I'm ready to go.
	Like, I'm really uncomfortable at this point.
	Like, I'm ready to go.
	She's like, you can walk out whenever, but stay right now.
	Because she felt like, you know, I guess as an attorney, she sees that he might be getting flustered in his questions or whatever it was.
	So then he asked to talk.
	And so we go to a room, just the two of us.
	And there was crying.
	There was laughing.
	There was, you know, we.
	He's crying.
	Both of you guys are crying.
	Both.
	And as soon as I walk in, I talk about like he just embraced me in a hug.
	And yeah, I just immediately started crying.
	I said, I've hated you.
	And that's something that's so hard because, you know, you see everything that your child deserves and she's not getting that.
	And it causes you to hate that other person.
	And at that time, like I said, Hunter, I've hated you.
	I've hated you for years.
	This little girl, she prays for you every night.
	Do you know that?
	You know, this little girl asks about you every day.
	She'll come to me, mommy, what's my daddy's voice sound like?
	And you know what I do?
	I find your eulogy that you give at your brother's funeral where she can see, she can see love in her father.
	And that's what I showed her.
	And what's, no, what's the tough part is she watches it.
	And in the eulogy, you know, he says, I love you.
	I love you.
	I love you.
	And that was what he heard after the tragedy, after the car accident, those words to him.
	I love you.
	I love you.
	And I'm watching my daughter watch this on an iPhone screen.
	And she says, I love you.
	I love you.
	And kisses the iPhone screen.
	And I'm going to have to sit there, you know, and try with this huge lump in my throat trying to be strong for her and let her know, see, he's a man full of love.
	You know, and it, it, I want her to see the good in him.
	I do.
	I want her to know she comes from a good place and the possibilities that she has.
	And that was very tough for me because at the time, I hated him.
	I hated him for what he'd done to me.
	And I hated him for what he had done to our daughter.
	And that's the whole point of the book because forgiveness is a burden that, you know, you hang on to.
	And if you don't forgive, whether they apologize or not, that burden's on you.
	And I had to, I had to forgive.
	And that day, that day when we sat in that room and another thing I brought up, I told him, I said, my daughter spent a lot of time making you a Father's Day gift and you set it on the shelf behind you.
	And he says, I was not about to open that box in front of your attorneys and be vulnerable in front of them.
	But again, this is about our child.
	And so he goes, he has him go get the box and they bring it through there.
	And we go through pictures.
	And, you know, we're laughing at like certain pictures of her and everything.
	Of course, he's seeing himself.
	She looks so much like him.
	Eyes are the same.
	Oh, same eyes.
	Absolutely.
	And mannerisms.
	My friend that comes in, the mutual friend between the two of us, she'll come in twice a year.
	And she says, every time I come, I get PTSD.
	It's like you and Hunter going back and forth 24-7.
	But there was forgiveness given that day.
	And I remember we stayed in there for a long time.
	We went through that box.
	We talked about Navy.
	And, you know, I can remember him telling me as he was crying, you don't know the remorse and the guilt that I've lived with every day that she's been born.
	And I told him, you know, I know that you were in a bad place during that time.
	I get that.
	But when do you make it right?
	At what point?
	You're sober now.
	You're standing in your truth.
	And you have a little girl in Arkansas that loves you, prays for you, talks about you, you know.
	Like, she'll tell you her grandfather is the president.
	Has she ever met him?
	No, is she proud of him?
	She used to walk around.
	And, you know, Arkansas has a lot of conservative people.
	My family has a lot of conservative people in it.
	And she would, I mean, she's always like dad says, she's born to be an attorney because she'll argue with the wall, she'll argue with anybody.
	But, you know, if there was anything about like the election that was going on, the campaign, she was what two?
	And she's walking around saying, no, Trump, let's Joe, baby.
	Like, that's what she would say.
	Let's Joe baby instead of let's go, baby.
	And of course, my family's all like, ha, get her out of here.
	Get her out of the living room.
	But she has supported him and his family from a distance.
	And he's never known that.
	And all, you know, I think that him and his family has seen was this toxic litigation around her.
	But that was that was just me wanting him to take accountability for his child.
	That's it.
	I don't care.
	I, the night that my attorney, I talk about, you know, this story in the book, the night that my attorney called to tell me the child support and like the amount, I was floored.
	I was fine with the temporary child support, which is less than what he's paying now.
	And he had to be at depositions, you know, that next morning during the, this is during the paternity suit, you know, to settle the, and he, he didn't want to come answer my attorney's questions.
	So the night before, his attorney's calling, like, how, how can we settle this right now?
	Of course, my attorney like puts it off.
	Well, I'm actually having dinner with my kids.
	So I don't know if I get done in time.
	I'll call you back.
	But if not, I'll see y'all at eight o'clock in the morning, you know.
	And it was, I mean, I settled that night.
	And I would have never guessed that amount.
	I would have never, I would have never came out and flat out asked for any amount.
	I can't tell you.
	I can remember my attorney asking, like, what amount are you okay with?
	And I'm like, I don't know.
	Like, what's the normal?
	Any motive on the amount of money to ask for?
	That's not even something you're thinking about.
	It was not.
	And I know people think that.
	And they think that that was the main reason.
	The main, the entire reason was for accountability.
	But I talk about, you know, hell hath no fury like a woman scorned, but hell hath no greater fury than a woman or a mother whose baby is being scorned.
	And that itself was their anger in me at that time a lot.
	So I didn't care.
	From that moment on till today, have you guys had communication?
	Has he seen Navy again or no?
	From that moment on, we decided that, you know, he would engage with her in art.
	They could start like, start off doing like a Zoom call once a month.
	She gets to pick out what painting and he'll send it to her and whatnot.
	And he believes the two most important things to him is art that got him out of that tough time.
	He, you know, and family.
	He said, art and family is what got him through that tough time.
	And that's what got him to recover, got him over that addiction.
	And so he said, what better way to get to know my daughter than through art?
	You know, it's helped me in other ways.
	And I'm all for it.
	That's great.
	That's wonderful.
	And so when we settled that day, I go home and it's Father's Day weekend.
	And Father's Day weekend, my daughter doesn't bring it up, but she's always, well, she hadn't, but she's always known Father's Day weekend.
	We celebrate Pappy.
	That's my dad.
	And of course, been a great figure in her life, a male figure.
	She does have that.
	And we're both blessed with that.
	And I get to tell her that Father's Day.
	I said, hey, you know, today's Father's Day and we celebrate Pappy, you know, but I sent your gift to your daddy.
	And guess what?
	You know, you might not get to talk to him right away, but this Father's Day, you got your dad.
	I was like, and you're going to start getting to talk to him.
	Would you like that?
	And she's like, can I call him right now?
	And I'm like, well, whoa, moving a little quick.
	No, I said, well, we'll call when the time is ready.
	You know, we're going to work out some details.
	Let us work that out.
	I said, but this Father's Day, you got your daddy.
	And that was just, I mean, the look on her face, just like the look on her face the first time she saw him on Zoom call.
	It's worth every penny, any amount of child support.
	And but you guys don't see each other, but he does a Zoom with her once a month.
	Yes, it started off once a month, and then it became like every week, and then sometimes a couple times a week.
	And, you know, that's something that like I applauded him on.
	He would, he would be, of course, we all know he had so much going on in Hunter Biden's world always.
	But this time, you know, there's a, there's a lot of things that he's having to take accountability for now.
	And he'll come out of like an attorney, a meeting, you know, with his attorneys or something and just to FaceTime her for a little bit and let her know that he loves her.
	And they've, you know, they've, they've created that bond through Zoom.
	When you were writing this book, did you tell him, hey, Hunter, I'm writing a book?
	Did he know or no?
	He was surprised.
	That was the tough part.
	When we did our, you know, child support dispute last year, there was a question that was brought to me.
	You know, are you writing a book?
	Are you, do you have any?
	Makes sense.
	Lawyers have asked.
	Is he asking or the lawyers are asking it?
	The attorneys were asking like our, you know, like sorted questions that, you know, come back and forth.
	And I said, I've not canceled that out because I feel like I have a right to tell my story as Navy's mother.
	And I made that clear.
	But no, you know, at the time, there was nothing in place.
	And, you know, once I started, I started getting a lot of messages.
	And throughout all of it, there were the hate messages and the people that hated me and disagree with me.
	And that's completely fine.
	But then I started getting messages like women who have gone through similar situations, but it hasn't been in the public eye because it's not a political family or anything.
	And they talk about how, you know, my story inspired them and how now, you know, they fought for their child.
	And now their child has a paternal side and a maternal and like they're good influences in their life.
	And so it inspired me to tell my story because I think that there's a lot of women that find themselves in a situation when they get pregnant that they become a burden more of, you know, celebrating it.
	You know, oh, we're married.
	We've wanted kids.
	And then you also have those women that get pregnant and it's like, oh, shit.
	And, you know, it's a good story for those women to know, you know, there's, there's light at the other end of the tunnel.
	But writing the book, you know, you sign that clause with your publishing agency and all that stuff that you can't tell people about it until a certain date.
	And so I wasn't able to tell Hunter until right before it was released.
	Like a couple months ago.
	Right before.
	Yeah.
	Has it been that long?
	I don't know.
	Whenever it was released to the media, that I was a little bit more.
	That was a few weeks ago.
	Okay.
	Yeah, I think so.
	So then did he ask you, hey, can he send it to me for me to read it or not at all?
	No.
	They don't have the transcript.
	They have an Nope.
	Okay.
	Gotcha.
	Are you at all worried about it when he reads it or no?
	No.
	Not at all.
	No, I resolved you.
	You know, my thing is, you know, I want him to know what I went through.
	And I mean, of course, I want everybody to know what I went through, right?
	You're wanting to share your story.
	You want to help somebody, maybe impact someone's life.
	But I want him to know what I went through.
	And I want him to know the hard conversations that I've had with our daughter and how long it's taken me to forgive and how long it has taken.
	Because everyone says, you know, you give him so much grace.
	Well, it's been a long time coming because, yeah, I've set back and I've not said anything.
	And I've been a mother to our child and a father to our child.
	I've had to play both those roles.
	And there's been some hard times and some dark times that I talk about through the book.
	And I was alone.
	And I understand that sometimes during my dark time, he was in a dark time too, somewhere else.
	But he didn't show up for me.
	And he didn't show up for our child for so long that, no, this is a story.
	I actually write a letter to Hunter.
	You've read the book.
	Did you read the book?
	No.
	Oh, there's actually a letter to Hunter.
	I don't remember anybody sending me a book.
	No, they wanted us to sign a NDA.
	You can't be held off.
	Okay.
	Oh.
	I end the book, you know, coming out of the shadows, and I write a letter to Hunter in there with forgiveness, a forgiveness letter.
	You know, like I said, whether there's an apology or there isn't, and we're just going to move past it like it never happened, that's not my burden to bear anymore.
	There has to be that forgiveness.
	So, okay.
	By the way, I'm willing to bet thousands of men are watching this who have maybe experienced something like this in a much lesser, you know, Hollywood script type of way that Hunter Biden takes it to a level that he's the GOAT on what he's done in this area.
	And they're sitting there saying, man, I'd love for my baby mama to watch this, to learn a few things from you, because my baby mama didn't have this level of grace.
	Meaning, your level of grace you've given to Hunter, let me tell you, it is, I know I'm going to get text messages and calls and manects of people saying, wow, they were not expecting that level of grace from you.
	But let me ask you this.
	So, okay, you know, the love of a grandfather is different than the love of a child.
	Like the way you love your kids will be different than the way you love your friend, will be different than the way you love your wife or husband than sibling.
	That's a different kind of love, right?
	Oh, absolutely.
	The love of a grandchild, I don't know what it is, but I see and I witness through my dad or my mom or, you know, through other grandparents where it's kind of like, that's your world.
	Well, have you at all gotten a call from the president to want to FaceTime with her, with Navy, to speak to her?
	And Jill, anybody?
	Have you gotten any calls?
	No, I have not.
	I have not gotten anything.
	But I'll say this, the love of a grandparent is completely different.
	You know, I tell people all the time, my mother never picked me up from the dinner table and hugged me and kissed me and told me how proud she was because I finished my plate of noodles.
	She's never done that.
	She does it to Navy.
	And I'm just like, hey, how about me?
	Where was that?
	Where were you?
	So, yeah, that love, I think, is completely different.
	And, you know, so many people tell me when they see pictures of Navy or when they're around her, they're like, oh my gosh, she looks so much like her father.
	And it's like, yeah, she does.
	And I embrace that.
	I get that.
	But the love you have for your child.
	And then can you imagine your child having a child out there that looks so much like those years, you know, that you were looking at recently.
	You don't want to call to meet or see or invite or just say, hey, would you mind coming to the White House?
	We just want to see.
	You've never gotten a call from the president to invite anything.
	Well, who knows?
	You know, the one thing about life is, you know, sometimes it takes time, you know, because you may get a call.
	This goes out there.
	Somebody sees it.
	They're like, hey, we'd like to see you.
	They invite you to the White House or they come and see Navy.
	That would be interesting.
	To the average person who doesn't know Hunter the way you know Hunter, like to the average person that, you know, politically, whether they're like, oh, you understand, I'm, you know, the president is this and Hunter is a drug addict and he's done this and he's ruined so many people's lives.
	And there's strong opinions and emotions to him.
	What is your impression, not of Hunter?
	What is your impression of Hunter's father?
	Okay.
	Where you're, you know, sometimes you're dating somebody and you meet a girl, you're like, oh my God, this girl's got a lot of problems.
	And then you meet the parents, you're like, oh, no wonder you have a lot of problems.
	I don't blame you.
	These are who raised you, right?
	You meet a guy, you're dating a guy, you're like, wow, this guy's very stable.
	How is he, the other day?
	I watched a 12-year-old kid give a speech.
	You thought this guy was a president at 12 years old.
	And then you meet the parents, you're like, okay, I'm not surprised that this behavior is happening.
	Did you ever ask yourself saying, yeah, how did this guy become this kind of an addict?
	What did his father do?
	What did the family do to influence this behavior?
	And maybe from your end, what is your impression of Hunter's father?
	Well, I'll say this.
	To begin, you know, I always felt like Hunter was who he was because of the things that he had gone through.
	And I didn't ever think it was so much on his father's end.
	I thought it was more of the tragedies that he had gone through with, you know, his mother and losing Bo.
	I feel like those are, those really impacted his life.
	And his father was sworn into the Senate by their hospital bed.
	You know, that I don't, I don't really know how I would feel about that.
	I don't know if, you know, he, he felt like, I don't feel like Hunter ever felt like he got the love he deserved from anyone.
	And I feel like he was constantly looking for that in everyone.
	And I talk about that throughout the book.
	You know, I feel like he yearned for some form of love, just like my daughter yearns for that love from her father.
	And so I always put it off on Hunter was the person that he was because of the tragedies that he had gone through.
	And that's more so of what I thought.
	And you asked what I thought of Joe as well.
	There's a story in the book.
	And I'm actually in, I'm in Wilmington with Hunter.
	And we're at Bo's house together.
	And it's just us.
	And one of my friends had one of my friends there.
	But I talk about there was a knock at the door.
	And Hunter, you know, first he isn't here.
	And I'm like, Hunter, someone just knocked on the door.
	He's like, what?
	Someone's at the door.
	And he's in the middle of his addiction.
	And he goes out there.
	And I talk about how, you know, I go and I'm like peeking through this window trying to see like who's out there, what's going on.
	And I can see, you know, Hunter's back is to me and it's Joe.
	And he's looking at Hunter.
	And I'll never forget the look on his face.
	And it was such a look of helplessness and hurt.
	Joe Biden.
	Yeah, because he's seeing his son in the state.
	And, you know, he had to know, even though he's not like using right there in front of him, he knew what state he was in.
	And, you know, there's, I think Hunter has said several times how, you know, his family tried to step in and help so many times.
	And they had a quick conversation out there.
	And shortly after, you know, Hunter came in.
	You could tell he was affected by it.
	He didn't want to let his dad down.
	But the look of hurt on Joe's face as he watched, and I don't know what Hunter was saying to him.
	And I'm sure making up excuses or something.
	They had some sort of, they had something to do that day, some family thing that he had to be at.
	And I was supposed to take one of his vehicles back to the Annapolis house.
	And I just, it was a short conversation, but I sit there just in awe of the look on his face.
	I wasn't a parent at the time.
	Also, I was pregnant at the time, but didn't know it.
	And, you know, now looking back on that, I can't imagine.
	You know, I see, I've seen that painful look on his face where, you know, he's hurting for his child and there's nothing he can do.
	Because Hunter made that very clear during his addiction.
	This is my addiction.
	There's nothing you can do to make me stop it.
	I'll quit when I want to quit.
	And I saw that look of hurt.
	Now it really resonates because I talk in the book, you know, Navy gets a lot of Hunter's traits and great ones.
	You know, he does have good traits, I promise.
	But one trait that I hope she never gets is that addiction that he battled.
	I never want to have to look at her the way that Joe looked at his son that day with that hurt and just feeling hopeless, helpless.
	You know, you can't save him.
	You know, this is a battle that he might not win.
	What did you mean when you said sword into Senate by bedside?
	What did you mean by that?
	Well, I know that if that tragedy had happened, I don't.
	With his first wife dying, that's what you're saying.
	Yes.
	And then, you know, Hunter and Bo were in the hospital and he was sworn into Senate by their bedside.
	I know that if that tragedy would have happened, I don't know if I'd have been able to be sworn in that day.
	Well, let me get this straight.
	So did Joe, did Hunter tell you about this?
	Did he ever share this with you?
	No, I have seen it.
	It's been, it's been like on the internet or something.
	So he never brought it up to you.
	This is something that you've seen independently yourself.
	Yes.
	So what you're saying is your wife, your bedside, your kids are there, and you're being sworn in instead of saying, give me some time to mourn before I do this.
	Is this the one you're talking about?
	Wow.
	Yeah.
	And this is, who is in this picture right now, Rob?
	That's either Hunter or Bo right there on the bed, I believe.
	And I think, you know, Hunter, I was actually told this as I wrote the book.
	Hunter didn't really talk about that time.
	And now he talked about his mother.
	There was a time, you know, we were on the train and I tell a story about how we're on his laptop and he shows me pictures of his mother.
	And one of them, it was such a candid picture of her.
	And she's like in this bathing suit and she's beautiful.
	And he was just, you know, mesmerized by it.
	And, you know, you could tell that love for his mother.
	And I had heard as I was writing the book, you know, that picture always kind of bothered me because it's like you said, I would have probably taken that time off.
	So, Rob, can you go back and to read the details below?
	You had something.
	I'm curious what it says to us because I'm now curious.
	I've never seen these before.
	Soon after Delaware Senator Joseph Biden was elected November 20, 1972, an automobile accident claimed the lives of his wife and infant daughter and put his two young sons in a hospital to allow him to remain at children's bedsides.
	Secretary of Senate Francis Vallejo traveled to Wilmington to issue the oath of office to the new senatory ceremony.
	Vallejo recalled in his oral history interview.
	Your wife just died.
	Your kids are in the hospital.
	Your wife and your daughter and your infant daughters.
	His little girl just died.
	She was, I believe, nine months old.
	How many days prior to that event is this swearing take it had to be days, right?
	I'm not certain.
	I'm not certain, but they're still there now.
	I have to know now, Rob.
	I have to know this now.
	This is, so let me.
	Yeah.
	He died December 7th.
	Well, 18, 1972.
	Well, that doesn't make any sense because this says was elected.
	Oh, elected November 1972.
	Let me see when he was actually sworn in.
	When was he sworn in?
	Yeah.
	She died.
	What exact date was Joseph Biden sworn into Senate?
	So you got to look.
	What date?
	Look, you see the pictures of them.
	I saw all the photos.
	I saw the ones in the middle of the day.
	Hunter was what that happened in 72.
	Hunter would have been two, and Bo would have been three?
	That's tough.
	Well, January 5th, 1973, December 18th, just two weeks later.
	So 12 days, 13 days, December 31st.
	So 18 days later, they're still at the hospital.
	You're being sworn in.
	You won November.
	And can you go back to the other picture, Rob?
	Can you go back to the other picture?
	Yeah, can you go to that one?
	That's Hunter and Bo?
	Wow.
	Is that his leg broken?
	I think.
	Yeah, there's a leg in the sling.
	Yes, and I think I was told, actually, as I was writing the book, I don't know this for certain, but I was told that Hunter suffered a traumatic brain injury.
	Hunter did.
	Oh, wow.
	They said that was some sort of public knowledge.
	I did not know that until, you know, I was writing this book.
	And one of the women that was kind of helping me organize things and whatnot, she said, it's actually been found that Hunter suffered a traumatic brain injury at that time.
	Wow.
	And, you know, that apparently has some sort of way of leading people to addiction as well.
	He never talked about any of this stuff.
	Never.
	Got it.
	No, he never talked about the accident.
	I mean, you know, honestly, when you're at that level, I don't know if Hunter trusts anybody.
	Right?
	Did you ever see any of his friends where he's like, this is my guy that I trust no matter what?
	Like, was it Haley?
	And maybe I'm saying the name incorrectly.
	Was it another friend?
	Was it a relative?
	Did he have anybody that he 100% trusted?
	No, the only one friend that I'd met a couple times was Devin Archer.
	And, you know, I talk about that throughout the book and going out with them one time.
	And he seemed, I don't know what Devin was going through something at the time.
	Just kind of seemed down.
	Hunter was trying to cheer him up.
	So Devin Archer was the only one that you feel Hunter trusted the most?
	I don't know.
	I don't know if I'd say trusted the most.
	I don't know.
	I know they were friends.
	That's how, you know, it was presented to me from Hunter.
	And when I met him, you know, he seemed to, you know.
	And just for context, Devin is the one from Burisma Holdings.
	From April 2014 to October 2019, Archer and his business partner, Hunter Biden, served, if you go to the Wikipedia, served on the board of Burisma Holdings, one of the largest private natural gas producers in Ukraine.
	And this is the part when Hunter Biden was asked, Rob, you can pull this up, when he was asked, if your father wasn't a vice president, do you believe you would have been sitting on the board?
	And he says, probably not.
	So this is also at a time where he's going through all this controversy when you guys are together.
	Did you ever have interactions with Devin or no?
	Yes.
	Was he seemed like a stand-up guy?
	I met Devin a couple times.
	Yeah.
	I think I don't remember the exact timeline as it to when I met him, but, you know, he was going through something and Hunter was trying to cheer him up.
	And he just, he seemed to himself, he seemed...
	Devin or Hunter?
	Devin.
	Okay.
	And, you know, he seemed down about whatever was going on.
	Do you remember the month?
	I don't.
	Was it 19 or 20?
	The year?
	Yeah.
	Oh, no, it would have been like it would have been 2017.
	Oh, 70.
	So, I mean, this is the thick of things.
	This is when they're kind of a, they're kind of going.
	Is this it, Rob?
	The clip of Hunter being asked if his father wasn't president.
	You played this clip?
	Okay, if you go for it.
	If not more.
	In the list that you gave me of the reasons why you're on that board, you did not list the fact that you were the son of the vice president.
	Of course.
	Yeah, no.
	What role do you think that played?
	I think that it is impossible for me to be on any of the boards that I just mentioned without saying that I'm the son of the vice president of the United States.
	You were paid $50,000 a month for your position?
	Look, I'm a private citizen.
	One thing that I don't have to do is sit here and open my kimono as it relates to how much money I make or make or did or didn't.
	But it's all been reported.
	If your last name wasn't Biden, do you think you would have been asked to be on the board of Burisma?
	I don't know.
	I don't know.
	Probably not.
	I don't think that there's a lot of things that would have happened in my life that my last name wasn't Biden.
	Part of it where he's like, you know.
	He's like, whatever, but he doesn't want to talk about it.
	You know, this is a very, you seem very reasonable.
	You seem very resolved in the way you've made your decisions.
	You seem like you're at peace right now yourself.
	But you seem to have understand Hunter's pain.
	And if I was somebody that's watching this, I would say you're putting a little bit more of the responsibility on the father.
	I may be wrong, but that's the feeling I'm getting.
	Am I off putting more responsibility of his pain on his father?
	No, I think it comes from everything.
	Like the tragedies and everything that he's gone through, losing Bo.
	And then, you know, the picture that I brought up, you know, you asked about how I felt about that, not that situation, but how Joe handled or whatever.
	And I just, that I didn't understand.
	But I know that Hunter always, you know, he talked very highly of, there's a story in the book and about, I think, I think the chapter is like, he meant well.
	And even though he battled addiction, he went out of his way to try to do good things for people.
	And like one night we're on the train to New York City and there's an elderly lady sitting in front of us, like first of all, probably way too old to be traveling alone, especially at nighttime.
	It was like the one of the last trains out that night.
	And she sees us and he's looking up like rental houses and stuff on his laptop and we're looking at him.
	He loved the colonial style houses.
	And so we were looking at them and sharing pictures and just talking and giving advice.
	And she turned around, asked what time it was.
	And kind of a couple times when we would go back and forth, she would turn around and laugh at us.
	And she asked what time it was.
	And so Hunter engages in conversation with her.
	And he's like, you know, what are you doing on a train this late?
	And you don't have a phone?
	You don't.
	She said, no.
	She said, my nephew with whom I've raised is dying of the same form of cancer that Bo had.
	Oh, wow.
	And she said, she didn't say that.
	She called it by name, but it's a, it's a, I don't know the exact name of it.
	And she said, and I'm going, I'm going to see him.
	And the family, so I don't have a phone.
	The family, she had somebody that was going to pick her up at this train stop at the stoplight, outside the train stop, stoplight in like Newark, New Jersey.
	And Hunter instantly, I knew as soon as she said that, he instantly gets up.
	He walks past me.
	He goes and he sits with this lady.
	He hugs her.
	He talks to her.
	He has that empathy for her.
	And he talks about, you know, the things that his brother struggled with during that, going through, you know, that process.
	And he felt her pain.
	And he meant well because he says, you know what?
	I'm going to get your stuff and I'll take you to that stop myself.
	I'll make sure you get to your family and blah, blah, blah.
	And I just sit there and he gets to the stop.
	Hunter gets her.
	He gathers her things.
	He says, I'll be right back.
	I said, okay.
	And he takes her to the stop.
	And then he's, the train takes off.
	I'm thinking, oh, God, he didn't make it back.
	Well, he's running from like the front of the train.
	He makes it.
	He sits down.
	He's out of breath.
	And they come over to the loudspeaker and they say, next stop, Newark, New Jersey.
	And he's like, and he looks at me.
	I lost it.
	I started laughing.
	I said, oh, you just put that old lady out on the wrong stoplight.
	He's like, funny.
	Oh, my God.
	He freaks out.
	Nobody's ever heard from her again.
	No, no, he freaks out.
	She's gone.
	He runs to the front.
	He's like, we've got to stop this train.
	We've got to turn around.
	Like, I have put an old lady at a stoplight.
	I've got to go back and get her.
	And they're like, we can't stop the train.
	Like, we're sorry.
	He gets off on the next stop, goes back and gets this woman.
	And instead of us, like, we were going to go and go out to have a late dinner, maybe go out and do some things and come back.
	Instead, all of that is postponed.
	And I have to go to this loft that we're staying at by myself.
	He goes, takes care of this woman, puts her on the right stop.
	And mind, it's like, it's December.
	It was like snowing in New York.
	And then finally at one, two o'clock in the morning, there's a knock on the door and it's Hunter.
	And he's in his t-shirt.
	He also had given his jacket on the way back.
	He had given his jacket to a homeless man because he was cold.
	His cell phone was in it.
	Bo's dog tags were in it.
	And his wallet was in it.
	And he's just like, can't get it together.
	Well, I'm laughing because I think it's funny.
	And he's like, you need to call my phone.
	I said, well, honey, I've been trying to call your phone for the last three hours.
	And that homeless man hasn't answered me yet.
	So he's not going to answer.
	But he did answer.
	And eventually, like throughout the night.
	And then the next day, you know, we get Bo's dog tags back and the phone, whatnot.
	Hunter even tells him, he says, if you bring it to me, I'll give you, you can keep the phone.
	You can keep the wallet.
	I just, I want my brother's dog tags.
	And he does.
	He gets them back.
	That family forgets stuff all the time.
	No, I mean, they forget stuff at the repair shops.
	So, but Pat, if you don't mind, so you said earlier about reading a little bit of the journal.
	You kind of opened accidentally and you read it.
	And I don't know, you know, I don't want to find out what he wrote in it.
	That's, yeah, that's, that's, that's all on you.
	But it seems to me from a father's point of view, we're talking about the father.
	And I get the trauma that Hunter went through, and I can only imagine.
	You know, I lost my dad, but I was 18, 19 years old.
	But losing a parent that young, losing a sister, going through all that.
	And obviously something with the father.
	He's getting sworn in at the thing.
	Ashley Biden, who was born, obviously later on, I don't know if you're paying attention.
	Her diary was recently come out to be factual.
	She left.
	I was trying to be funny, but it's true.
	They forget stuff everywhere.
	She left a diary at a friend's house, kind of like a renting out Airbnb, whatever.
	It was found and it's been public now.
	And Ashley writes in there a bunch of crazy stuff from her childhood, oversexualized, having this, having that.
	And she wrote in the, this is in her diary, her words, that she showered with her father, probably at inappropriate ages.
	So I kind of seem, I see a trend that's happening, and it kind of is going back to the trauma and also with the father.
	I don't know if you did, did you see any?
	Did you see any of that?
	Because this is a fact.
	I've heard some stuff about that, but no, I don't, because I don't ever know what's factual, what isn't, what's just being thrown out there, what's being said.
	So I've heard something about that, but no, not the details.
	So you're reading the, so when you, his journal, what you were reading, was it current problems that he was going through, or was this like past history old school?
	Like, I don't know where you, what, where you open?
	It was, I'll tell you, it was 97, oh, wow.
	Oh, crap.
	So this is old school.
	Yeah, he was, he just wrote in there like some story, his thoughts on things.
	And, you know, his, at the time, I can't remember exactly where it says that he was working at, like as a lobbyist or something like that.
	And he wasn't happy.
	He wasn't happy in life.
	And so there's a lot of sad stories.
	He just wasn't happy with himself.
	Yeah.
	So I really enjoy this.
	I had no idea.
	I thought this was going to be a 45-minute to an hour interview.
	How long have we been in?
	This is just going to be an hour and a half interview.
	But I've actually really enjoyed listening to your story, your experience.
	And to the average listener, would you say your family, you said earlier, they're more conservative, right?
	Your family.
	Some, I have, yeah.
	We don't discuss politics.
	Your family?
	Yeah, because it's just, you know.
	Yeah, we made it.
	We made it at this company.
	If there's one thing we never discuss is politics.
	Ever.
	The fact that she said Trump, we all were like, we don't like to go there because it makes all of us very uncomfortable.
	But we made an exception today just for you.
	So it's a very special moment.
	Rob, can we make sure to put this book all over the place?
	And I'm going to make the intro and I'm going to make sure we support the book as well to be read because it's a direct experience from someone that is sharing with the world things that we haven't directly had.
	All we do is we read and we see stuff.
	And also at the same time, I'd love to, I would applaud the president for him to reach out to want to meet his beautiful, I mean, she is beautiful granddaughter, which, by the way, looks like the best of you and him, but you see her father in her.
	You know, if you're the grandfather and that's what your granddaughter looks like, all you have to do is we're sending a plane, come to the White House.
	We'd love to spend a couple hours with them or Delaware and then boom, send you back home.
	It's not going to be a big expense.
	And I think it would be very honorable to all grandfathers to see that even though this is a little bit embarrassing to the family, events like this when get somebody to say, you know what, we got to move past this.
	You got to give them credit.
	He reached out.
	That and now, you know, the Navy can forever say, because the president may not have a long time to live, she'll always be able to say, I met my grandfather.
	And I think that's going to mean a lot to her for many, many years to come.
	I applaud you.
	I appreciate you for coming out.
	Well, thank you.
	This was fantastic.
	Thank you so much, gang.
	Please go support her and order the book.
	Take care, everybody.

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