Patrick Bet-David, Adam Sosnick, and Vincent Oshana are joined by Stephen A. Smith as they discuss Stephen A.'s love of Presidential Debates, whether Stephen A. will vote for Donald Trump in 2024, and what caused the rift between Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen.
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00:06 - Show Intro
3:37 - Stephen A Smith discusses when he started speaking out about politics.
11:01 - Stephen A. explains what media outlets he watches to get his political news.
15:08 - The mistakes Don Lemon made during his contract negotiations with Elon Musk and X.
20:24 - The influence Stephen A.'s mother had on his career and political opinion.
35:07 - Stephen A. explains if Democrats are losing to Trump in the run-up to the 2024 Presidential election.
48:38 - What would happen if Stephen A. voted for Trump in 2024?
1:03:26 - Did the Civil Rights Act of 1964 win Democrats the black vote for the next 200 years?
1:41:26 - Stephen A. on the rift between Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen.
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Patrick Bet-David is the founder and CEO of Valuetainment Media. He is the author of the #1 Wall Street Journal Bestseller “Your Next Five Moves” (Simon & Schuster) and a father of 2 boys and 2 girls. He currently resides in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida.
Why would you pat on Goliath when we got pet dated?
Value payment, giving values contagious.
This world of entrepreneurs, we get no value to hate it.
I be running, homie, look what I become.
I'm the only one.
Okay, so we have a special guest in the house today.
Episode Rob, what number are we on?
385.
This is not the first time we're doing a show together.
We did one together in New York, in Connecticut.
I think it was New York, right after I had a meeting with Ray Dalio.
There's a few things you need to know about him.
Let me first brag about some of the accomplishments.
New York Time best-selling author, straight shooter, a memoir of second chances and first takes.
He's got a YouTube channel, show podcast, that's absolutely blowing up the Stephen A. Smith show, which you can follow.
If there's a guy that I will gladly and happily, I've probably, I want to say, I've probably consumed, I can say a hundred plus hours of his content over the years.
It's probably hundreds because my mornings would start off with having to hear what he had to say because I don't watch games.
I watch takes.
I like takes.
So I always like to see how somebody processes issues, debates.
I'm always interested in that.
And in my opinion, he's the GOAT in his space.
I don't think there's anybody that's better than him in his space.
And I've watched many.
And I'm 45.
So you can go back.
You know, Chris Berman, I think he's the best in the space.
In my opinion, you guys can fight it out all you want.
And that's just my opinion where I stand.
Now, a couple of things that's a little bit deeply concerning with him is why he's such a diehard Cowboys fan.
I don't know.
You can't believe that.
I've tried to figure this thing out.
I believe that.
Yeah, he's not from tech.
Like, I'm trying to see why would he love the Cowboys as much as he does.
I've asked around, folks.
I've ran polls.
I've hired investigators.
I don't know.
I'm trying to figure that part out.
He is a big fan of Miami.
He's not a fan of weed.
So if you're smoking weed and listening to this, get off the podcast, right?
Because he just doesn't like it.
With that being said, we got the great Stephen A. Smith in the house.
What's going on, my man?
How y'all doing?
How you doing?
Good to see all of y'all, man.
I'm a huge fan of the show.
How y'all doing?
Very good.
It's good to be here.
Great setup.
I like it.
I like it.
We got a lot of stories.
We're going to be going with you here.
A lot of stories.
Obviously, we have to cover your inner desire to debate this man named Donald Trump.
We're going to talk a little bit of politics.
We're going to talk the black vote.
We're going to talk weed.
We're going to talk what happened on LeVar Ball.
I'm curious.
We're going to talk New York.
What's going on with New York?
Fatherhood, very interesting part in your story with your pops.
I think, you know, fathers play a very big role.
We'll talk about that with you.
Biggie Tupac, I'm curious to know where you stand amongst those two.
And I got a bunch of other stories that we'll go through.
I'm here for it.
And one of them, you know, it's very important because I've seen you speak and you're probably one of the best communicators, right?
They say certain people are man of few words.
Certain people are man of many words.
And I like to study styles of communication on what's going on with, you know, different kind of things.
I'll ask you about this one guy later on in the topic.
I got questions for you about LBJ and your thoughts on that.
A little bit of Pippin and a couple other stories.
One personal story I want to ask you about Zion Williams and I'll tell you why because I'm just curious to know what's going to happen with his career.
But let's start off with the first thing.
So Stephen A. I watched you, you know, when the average person thinks of you, they think of the guy that gives the best takes when it comes down to sports.
That's you, right?
But every time I watched you, I would watch your interest in almost like adding a little bit of politics in it, but you wouldn't fully go there.
And you didn't for many years, right?
It was a little bit more subtle.
You did say certain things.
You said, I think the black needs to vote for GOP.
I think 10 or 11 years ago you were on CNN kind of giving your positioning on what that is, but you would always go back to sports.
Recently, I've seen you, you started your podcast, you've had Hannity on, and you guys are friends.
You've had Coma on and you're friends.
Me, you and Cuomo talk, you know, and we have interesting conversations.
Is it the fact that you've always been interested in politics, or is it the fact that you're at a certain age in your life where you feel like I have more to say than just sports, and I want to give my opinion to it?
What's the reasoning for that?
It's both.
I've always been interested in politics.
I mean, to me, shockingly as it may sound to a lot of people, the Super Bowl is the big deal, okay?
The big deal, the big sporting event.
Obviously, I'm a basketball guy, so I love the NBA and I love the NBA Finals, but the Super Bowl, I mean, is it right now?
Everybody, I mean, it's an event, and the NFL is an event every week, what have you, but the Super Bowl is it.
The next biggest event to me, me personally, has always been presidential debates.
Get out of here.
I mean, I'm talking about Clinton against HW.
I'm talking about, you know, I'm looking at Barack Obama going up, obviously, you know, against John McCain.
I'm thinking about Al Gore and W. Bush.
I'm thinking about Walter Mondale and Reagan.
You know, I mean, all of this stuff, I just watched.
I remember when, you know, HW was going up against Michael Dukakis, you know, out of Massachusetts.
I mean, I've been watching politics all my life.
I would grow up and I would not miss Peter Jennings.
I would not miss Ted Coppel, Nightline.
I'd watch all of this stuff and I would, you know, knowing their brilliance, their intellect, what they brought to the table, I respected the hell out of it.
But what I lamented about it was this need to come across as completely neutral because I believe that part was not true.
I don't believe as human beings, we don't feel anything.
You feel something.
You believe something.
You're siding with something.
But they would go out of their way to make sure you didn't know what it was.
I understood the importance of it because they were hosts.
But in the same breath, because I had such profound respect for them and their professionalism, it had me craving to know what they believed.
And I would never find it out.
And I would say, if I ever get in television, you're going to know where I stay.
You're not going to wonder about where I'm at.
Very interesting.
And how I would protect myself from it is that I would always leave myself open to being corrected.
It wasn't finite.
This is what I believe.
Here's why.
Show me I'm wrong.
And if I gave you the opportunity to show me that I'm wrong, then the resentment you assumed one would have once they showed their subjectivity as opposed to their objectivity, which is what I said I was lamenting earlier about those guys in those positions, all of a sudden that would evaporate because I'm being honest with you about where I stand and I'm leaving myself to be incorrect.
So you know what's funny when you say that because some people will say, I don't know if you've read Ted Turner's book.
What is Ted Turner's book called?
It's called Ted.
They call me Ted By Ted.
By the way, if you haven't read it, highly recommend you read it.
It's an easy read and you'll actually be very interested in it because you'll see how this guy almost ran for office who he wanted to marry.
He ended up marrying sports teams he bought what he did with the Atlanta Falcons and the Harvards and all this stuff.
It's just a lot of good stories, right?
No, Everybody was a braves fan because of David Justice, Kenny Lofton.
How do we know all these players?
Because of this guy.
Right.
And one thing that he talks about at the end of the book, he talks about how disappointed he was on what happened to CNN.
And it was more where before news was the star.
Today, the talent is the star.
Like, we didn't hire you for you to be the star.
Just tell the news.
Let the news be the star.
But today, it's more the talent is becoming a star.
So, you know, some will say, well, this is why I don't get, you know, I missed the Walter Cronkite days.
I don't want to hear your opinion.
Just tell me the news, right?
Do you think it's a good thing that we're going this direction?
Do you think it's just an evolution?
There's nothing we can do about it.
I think it's a good thing.
And I think it's a good thing so long as you're responsible enough to articulate your position cogently and to back it up with facts.
If you're willing to do that and you're willing to put yourself on the line because you're saying this is the intel.
These are the facts.
This is where I stand on it.
I have no problem with it.
When you bring up Ted Turner, respect to him, profound respect for him and what he's meant to this industry.
However, it would be easy for him to take that position because if the news is the attraction as opposed to the personalities, then you don't have to pay.
Because last time I checked, the news ain't charging you.
The personalities are.
And so it amazes me how you have individuals who are filthy rich, who are wealthy that say things like that when that's not the code they lived by in order to build their fortunes.
Whatever element.
Interesting.
Whatever nugget they had, whatever the qualities that they had, they were able to manufacture in a capitalistic society.
They were able to manufacture that into something greater for themselves.
But then they create these industries.
They create these opportunities and people figure out different ways to capitalize off of it monetarily.
And all of a sudden, you're lamenting the state of affairs because suddenly you got to pay stuff that you didn't have to pay before.
So I look at it from that perspective.
And I think that I think that you have people that think like Ted Turner articulated in the book.
And I would tell you right now, not to cast any aspersions on any network or whatever.
But when you look at CNN, one could easily argue that their problem has been you're trying to be neutral and you're trying to come across as above the fray per se.
Once upon a time, that worked when there was no Fox News, when there was no NMSNBC.
But now you got competition.
And when you have competition, there's an audience.
And an audience gets to make a choice.
And once again, what are we talking about?
Going beyond CNN.
Something that I preach to people all the time that I believe has been one of the components that has contributed to my success.
I don't give a damn what I want compared to what the audience wants.
I know there are things that I want, but the priority is them.
If I'm asking them to watch me, I have to broach subject matters and talk about things that I believe they've conveyed to me that they want to hear.
If you're not about the audience, then you're about you.
And if you're about you and a paying audience can see that and they have options, chances are they're going to pick the option, not you.
So, okay, so who do you watch the most?
Like if you were to say, I like watching this guy for this, I like watching that guy for this, like CNN, MSNBC, Fox.
I have a multitude of people I watch.
It's not just one person.
Yes, I'm friends with Chris Cuomo now.
I didn't know him up until like a year ago, okay?
But I watched him on TV.
I think that he's a sensational mind.
I think that he knows the business backwards and forwards.
And his willingness to articulate his positions, I would say fearlessly, particularly when he was on CNN, is something that I absolutely positively applaud.
And then when he lost his job at CNN, I was pretty pissed off.
I'm not going to lie to you.
Because when I interviewed him for my podcast, I had said to him, I said, Chris, why didn't you just sit up there and say, look, I'm going to take a leave of absence.
This is my brother, my big brother.
He says he's innocent.
There's the governor of New York, Andrew Comey, says he's innocent of what they're accusing him of.
I'm rolling with my brother.
I believe in him and I'll be back once the situation is settled.
And he was like, you're assuming that I knew my job would be waiting for me.
I said, okay, fine, right?
So we can debate that all day until the cows come home.
But at the end of the day, there was his brother.
And I'm looking at the industry and I'm like, you want to get rid of this man?
If I was CNN, and this is a bold segment, but I've said it publicly before, so I ain't going to deny it now.
I'd get on my knees and I'd beg that man to come back.
Beg him.
Because let me tell you something right now.
When you pride yourself the way they are right now as somewhat leaning towards the center, not being extreme left, not being extreme right, who does that better than Chris Cuomo?
That's how I feel.
But then I turn around and I go over to the right.
I'll watch Chris Cuomo at eight and I'll turn around and I'll watch Sean Hannity at night.
We are very friendly with each other.
We're friends.
We've known each other for over 20 years.
A lot of people despise Sean.
Some go as far as hate.
And then there are others who think that he is not as real and as authentic as he comes across.
I'm here to tell you, he believes what he says.
I'm here to tell you, I do believe he's authentic.
And I don't agree with at least half of what he says.
He knows I think he's nuts half the time.
But this is what I marvel about at him.
I have never in my life encountered anyone in this business more consistent than him.
He doesn't stop ever.
On camera, off camera, he's on message.
Hannity is who you're talking about.
Hannity.
It's like, I'm just looking at him.
I'm like, how do you do it?
And that's not easy to do.
And that's not easy to do.
And he does, I mean, every day, every night, he's on message.
I'm telling you, I speak to him on the phone quite often.
Text messages.
It doesn't matter who's around.
A crowd's around the live television audience on the phone.
He's the same.
He doesn't stop.
And I marvel at that.
And so I look at guys like him.
I look at guys like Chris Cuomo.
I looked at Bill O'Reilly.
Why did I look at Bill O'Reilly?
Ladies and gentlemen, winner, nearly 20 years on Fox News.
Number one every week.
That's interesting.
Every month?
Every year?
Yep.
For nearly 20 years.
And when I'm talking about first take on ESPN, that's where I get it from when you hear me say, I'm number one every week.
Every month?
Every year.
I got that from watching Bill O'Reilly because that's the respect that I have for him igniting and basically defining the space that we're now all living in.
See, where no matter what you feel, I don't know him personally, but I know it's work.
And at the end of the day, when people do good work, you got to give props.
You can't sit around and hate because you're just embarrassing yourself and you got your head in the wind, in the sand, you know, in the sky rather, when you are not acknowledging the things that people do on a very, very successful level.
Now, Stephen A, you've been in the space for a while.
Yeah.
And you know, somebody will make a position, somebody will do something, and you may not comment on it.
And sometimes you will comment on it because you understand the professionalism and certain things beyond closed doors.
But, you know, the way Don Lemon handled the situation with Musk and what he did, from your perspective, he's not with somebody.
He's independent today himself.
And, you know, him and Chris were, you know, back-to-back and they did their show together for not together, but they had a back-to-back show for many years.
Yes.
How do you think Don handled the situation with Elon Musk going asking for $8 million, $5 million, a car, shares, private jet, massage, all this stuff?
How do you think, what was wrong with his ask towards Musk?
Well, let me say this to you.
We live in a capitalistic society.
You are what the market says you are.
I'm certainly not going to knock him for asking.
I mean, there's certain things that I wouldn't ask for.
You know, give me, I'm the kind of person.
I'm not going to you for all of those things.
Just give me the money so I can get all of those things on my own.
I don't need to ask you for it.
If I'm the type of person that, okay, I might want a massage and I might want a therapist.
I might want this car.
I might want this and that.
Well, damn it, that adds up to about an extra four or five million dollars.
That's right.
You know, than what I originally thought.
So I'll ask for the extra four to five million dollars because I think that it comes as excessively extra when you're asking for specific things as opposed to the money where you can go out and get it yourself.
That's number one.
Number two, when you saw the interview with Don Lemon, who I respect, by the way, I respect him.
I don't always agree with him, but I respect him.
And I respect some of the positions he's taken, not all over the years.
I would tell you, I thought that he was the one who messed up the Elon Musk interview.
I'm like, you can go on CNN all you want to.
You can talk about it until the cows come on.
That was on you.
And it's this simple.
So I want to come and work for Patrick Bett David.
And he's got this platform, Value Taint, okay?
And I want to work on this platform.
And you hire me.
And my first interview is you.
I am not going to treat you like you're somebody that just showed up on my show like I had on CNN.
I know who I'm sitting in front of.
And I understand you have an obligation to the audience, but you also have an obligation to be practical and to understand business as it's conducted.
There's a way to do things.
It's not that you can't ask questions.
It's not that you can't probe.
It's not that you can't let them know what the people want to know.
But the manner in which you do it, you don't treat somebody like they're just anybody.
Elon Musk purchased X for $44 billion last time.
I checked.
I think that's the number.
Okay.
And I'm on his platform.
Damn it, he ain't just anybody.
And one of the things that I have a problem with when I look at things that are transpiring in this country, you can't in the same breath talk about capitalism.
Talk about how it's equal opportunity that we want, but everybody doesn't deserve the same.
It's about your level of production.
Some people are high-end earners.
Some people are high-level producers and stuff.
And, you know, they're getting treated, they might earn more than somebody that just don't have that skill set.
That's the world we're living in.
And I think that you have a lot of people here that want to act as if, you know what, we're after a different culture.
We want everything the same for everybody.
You're lying.
You are lying.
I grew up in the streets of Hollis Queens, New York City.
My mother was on welfare for a little while and it killed her, killed her.
Wow.
That she was sick to her stomach that we had to get government cheese and bread and all of this other stuff.
And she got the hell off of it as soon as she possibly could.
And I know that when she sent me out there to work, she didn't send me out there to be like just anybody.
She sent me out there to be the best that I can be.
Why?
So I can earn more for myself than the average typical person.
And most people in a capitalistic society believe in that.
And so when you have folks walking around like everybody is supposed to be the same, that's nonsense.
You're lying to the American public.
You're lying to yourself.
It's not true.
And in the end, people who produce more ultimately end up more successful than those who don't.
And Jimmy Johnson, the former coach of the Dallas Cowboys, said it best.
I will be very consistent in my inconsistencies.
Those who produce will be treated better than those who don't.
And I appreciated his candor, whether you like it or not.
That's the reality.
And I think that the sooner that we accept that, the better off it is.
We just have too many people in this world, especially on Capitol Hill as well, that want to give this impression or want to literally go about the business of changing that and making things equal.
The only thing that should be equal is opportunities.
But what you receive from your level of production is on you.
God bless your mom for raising a man like you.
I know the tribute you did six years ago.
Was it 2017?
What year was that?
She passed away in 2017.
2017.
I remember that was very heartfelt.
And we're having dinner the other night.
You and I. We're in, I think Tom was with us and a couple other guys were with us.
We're in LA.
We're in Maestros, right?
And you had your Toyota Crawler parked outside.
What?
Toyota.
A.K.A.K.A., it's a bull.
Okay, if you know the brand bull, you know, it's like an Italian bull.
They made a great movie about wanting to go after Ferrari.
A.K.A. Lamborghini.
But anyways, we're having dinner and I'm watching certain things you do when I'm out with you, man.
You're like, would you guys be okay if I break the bread and I grab the bread?
And you're like.
Versus, you're out there with Middle Easterns.
We're going to be like, all right, bro, here, let me give you a little bit of a break.
You're showing off your plate, Steven.
And then the way he does everything, the way you speak to, you know, I think to myself always, mannerisms, mom, how she raised you.
Was your mom a Republican or a Democrat?
My mother was a Republican.
I'm sorry.
She was a Democrat at the polls.
She was a Republican at home.
Oh, wow.
Oh.
And that's one of the misnomers, to be quite honest with you, about a lot of folks.
I certainly don't speak for all anybody, all black people, all anybody.
But when it comes to black folks, this is what I've known.
Most of us have conservative values.
And we might go to the polls and vote Democrat because we're sensitive to our communities.
We're sensitive to the plights of the desolate and the disenfranchised.
We want to have a level of sensitivity to that.
We certainly want folks to get equal opportunities.
We're monitoring race because as I told John McCain, who I interviewed years ago, God rest the soul, and I had the show quite frankly on ESPN too, John McCain was a guest of mine.
So was Donald Trump, by the way.
But John McCain was a guest of mine and kept in touch with me up until the day that he died because he told me that he appreciated the fact that I was reasonable.
I wasn't somebody.
I'm not a person that looks at you and thinks because you're white, you're racist.
You're a Republican, you're racist.
No, I don't play that.
It's like I can look at things systemically, which is what I try to preach to white America all the time.
When I'm talking about racism, I'm talking about systemic.
I'm talking about a system that is designed to do things that assist in elevating one group while marginalizing the next.
I don't look at individuals that way.
I never have.
You as an individual in the system, just like I am, and you could be the most decent person in the world and you're a white person.
That does not mean that you're a bad person just because you're white.
I don't get caught up in that nonsense.
I don't allow people to do that with me.
But I bring all of that up to say that in my home, when you, my mother and father was like, there's one rule of law.
It's ours.
It's not a democracy.
We ain't negotiating.
We're the boss.
You do what the hell we tell you to do.
And when you get old enough, you can go out on your own and do what you want to do and live by your own rules.
But until then, I mean, that's just the way it was when you talked about, you know, gay rights, they didn't mind that.
But if you came and you talked about transgender and you talked about, well, you know what?
I believe that I'm a member of the opposite sex that I happen to be, that my body happens to be right now.
No, maybe it was a different time.
You couldn't come, you couldn't come to my parents like that.
You know, you couldn't come to my parents and be like, you know what, I don't like the way you treat me.
I'm going to have you arrested.
They'd be like, really?
Let me whip your ass now.
You understand?
And by the way, let them come get you.
You think foster care is going to be better than this house?
Good luck with that.
This is not a democracy.
You do what you're told.
And so, you know, strong national security, monitoring borders and stuff like that.
My family, we from the West Indies.
My mother and father were born in the islands, St. Thomas and Antigua.
You understand?
I mean, and so, so, like, they're looking at stuff and you could see the issues that we have with immigration right now.
Oh, my mother and father be like, get your behind the back of the line.
Like, we had to.
Who do you think you are?
I mean, that's how folks act.
Law enforcement during the whole social justice movement and you saw riots in the streets and stuff like that, throwing up your hands to a police officer.
My mother, my father would have looked at me and said, I hope they whipped your ass.
My mother would have been like, if they throw you in jail, I won't even come visit you.
She's like, the law is the law.
You obey the law.
When I got a speeding ticket, my mother said, well, how fast were you going?
She didn't sit up there and say the cops were profiling me.
How fast were you going?
What did you do?
Let's deal with you first.
It's real easy to point the finger blame.
Let's deal with you.
And that's what my mother taught me to be.
And so because of that, I would tell you, Democrat at the polls, but conservative at home.
I don't say Republican, conservative, my mom, yes.
You think today, today, that's different then versus today.
A lot of weird things have happened the last, you know, four decades.
You think your mom today would vote conservative or you think she would vote conservative?
Wouldn't think about voting Democrat today.
Wouldn't think about it because she would believe that the left is, you know, being held hostage by the progressive left, that the centrist that's in them that long was believed to have existed from the 60s to the 90s, et cetera, has evaporated.
And there is no way that my mom would have supported today's Democrat based on what she is seeing out there in the streets of America.
She wouldn't do it.
Now, that's not to say that only left-leaning cities, you know, a mayor, a governor, et cetera, that it only happens where Democrats are in charge.
But the fact of the matter is that's how it looks more often than not.
And she would see that particularly in New York City.
The second my mother saw the National Guards in the subways of New York cities, of New York City, the Democrats would be dead to her.
Dead to her, because my mother was really, really big on law and order.
Now, so am I, but in a different way.
What I mean by that is I'm in New York.
I'm in L.A. rather, down the block from Ice Cross.
At one time last year, they weren't letting in more than three or four people in the store at the time because folks was getting robbed.
And so when you hear a Trump or somebody else talking about law and order, I'm like, you lucky as him.
You lucky it ain't me.
Because if you're talking about interfering with business, okay, I'm not allowing that to happen.
You better thank your heavenly stars it ain't me in office because I wouldn't play that.
We gonna hunker down.
We gonna clean up these streets.
Because when you allow things to get in the way of business, collectively we all fall.
The opportunities that are available to you in this world come because business is thriving.
When business isn't thriving, everything will crumble.
And I believe that, and most people I know believe it.
It's just that some are more hesitant to acknowledge that than most.
I don't have a problem with acknowledging it.
I understand.
So let's stay on that.
Very, very interesting.
And how much in your mind, you know, the Christian church came up with those wristbands, WWJD, and what would Jesus do?
Do you ever have a, you know, a, you know, what do you call it?
A imaginary WWMD?
Like, do you sit there and say, what would my mom do?
Like, do you process it that way?
I tell you this.
I say, what would my mom think?
Because there's a lot of things that she would not have done that I've done.
When I got let go by ESPN in 2009, my mother was a person that put her head down, worked tirelessly, punched that clock, put in those hours, went home, got some rest, woke up again, punched that clock, and was committed to doing that.
Me, I was a person that, and I am a person, I believe in hard work.
I don't believe in being outworked.
I believe in putting my head down and being on my grind.
But I do believe that it earns me the right if I'm a productive person.
If I'm productive, because that's the first order of business.
You ain't got no reason to say nothing when you ain't productive.
But when you're productive, you've earned certain privileges.
And I believe one of those privileges is to speak your mind.
And so for me, whether it's Disney, whether it's anybody else that I've worked for, you know, I've been very, very big throughout my career on making sure that I have the air of people who matter, the decision makers and what have you.
So they always knew where I stood.
Now, when we go outside and we go out into the public, we warriors together.
I'm not going to betray my teammates.
But inside those walls, oh, you're going to know where I stand.
You're going to know why I stand the way that I, where I stand.
And we're going to deal with it from that reality.
And the reason that I've always been able to cultivate those relationships throughout my career is because I've always been big on not defining success for myself before I asked them what their definition of success is for the company that I'm working for.
I don't believe that when you go and work for somebody else, you get to sit back and say, I'm successful.
Well, do they believe you're successful?
Because if they don't believe you're successful, what does it matter?
And that was one of the reasons that I ended up really, really falling flat on my face in 2009 when I lost my job.
I saw people screaming my name at arenas, in the streets, everywhere I went, they knew who Stephen A was.
And I saw me and myself in commercials and stuff like that.
And I'm like, I'm the man.
I thought I made it.
And when it came time to negotiate, I had those emotions.
They had their data.
And their data told them something different than what I thought I deserved.
And so when they ended up saying this is where it is, take it or leave it.
And I left it, you know, my career nearly collapsed because I put myself in a very, very dire situation because I wasn't aware of my value.
I didn't study the business.
I didn't have the data.
And I went into negotiations operating based on emotion as opposed to what they defined as success, which was their data.
And it was the greatest lesson that I ever learned in my life.
And what it's done for me on a personal level, I can't say enough about.
I don't think I'm exaggerating when I say what I'm about to say.
I think it truly made me a man.
Because what happened is, is that at that moment when I was forced to look at myself, as I wrote in my book, Straight Shooter, when my mother forced me to look at myself and to contemplate all the decisions that I had made and the detriment that I had done to myself, it primarily came from arrogance, yes.
Immaturity, yes, but all bred from me being ill-informed about my own business.
I thought I was getting to define my value.
And when I learned that that doesn't work, I've been about the business of studying the business well enough to understand what true value is, what it equates and quantifies into, and where you measure up in that stratosphere.
And from that point forward, the reason I say it's made me a better man is because it's allowed me to depersonalize practically everything and to see things from the lens of a business and a business person.
And as a result, when you talk to me, I know where you're coming from.
So I'm not offended by whatever you bring to the table for me.
I understand you're just conducting business.
I embrace it that way.
I either agree or disagree, but I don't harbor the emotions.
And because I'm not harboring the emotions, you don't have to worry about me overreacting or reacting in a very negative way or being a bit truculent or anything like that.
I get it.
I understand it.
And it's made me a big boy.
By the way, at that time when you were going through this, you were 41, 42 years old.
Did you see today's Sports Center posted that video by Andre Drummond?
I did not see it today.
Oh, it was such a great video.
Drummond is sitting there.
He's coaching a bunch of young kids.
He's telling the story about the fact that he got a $100 million contract.
And it was on Instagram.
Rob, you just had it up.
Just go to where you were at.
You had it just a minute ago when you were on Instagram.
It reminded me of what you're saying.
But let me go back to where— What you brought about was 41.
Let me say this real quick, please.
Age doesn't matter.
It's what you're exposed to.
I wasn't exposed to the lessons that I had to learn in 2009 until 2009.
I didn't know.
I really didn't know.
I had never been placed in a position where I had to negotiate.
And I thought I was negotiating from a position of strength and all this.
Remember, I'm a newspaper guy.
So you ain't have an agent when you're in the newspaper industry.
You go in there, you get an interview, they offer you a salary, you take it, or leave it, and you move on.
It wasn't until later on in my career, I had a couple of, you know, I mean, I had one contract prior to that in 2003.
And then they paid me $225,000 for X number of appearances.
And then a few years later, they came to me with my own show.
And that was a negotiation with Mark Shapiro, who's now the president of the WME, who represents me.
That's my guy.
You know, you had that going on.
And then that.
But he was gone by then.
So I didn't have his guidance.
He had gone over.
He had departed to take over Six Flags.
Okay, Dick Clark Productions, all of that stuff for Daniel Snyder, who owned a former Washington Redskins that's now the Washington Commanders.
So he was gone.
And that was my guy.
I didn't have the guidance.
I didn't know better.
I just didn't know.
By the way, good for him for, you know, later on getting there.
And that's the part of relationships as well, right?
Later on, you know, when he is now representing you, working with you, you can do some of the things.
No, I just saw Drummond said something.
It was very interesting.
I think you would enjoy watching it.
Going back to your mom, when you're talking about on the conservative side, your recent positioning with Trump has been, has gotten a lot of people a little bit asking questions.
Sure.
Okay.
So, hey, you know, the Democrats, what you're doing, you know, trying to undermine everything this man's doing, it's not working.
You know, you're kind of going through the whole process and you kind of Biden, all this stuff.
What do you think, you know, the strategy that they're doing right now?
Do you think they don't know that it's not working or do you think they're convinced it's going to end up working come November 5th, the day we vote?
I think they're convinced it's going to work.
And I think that they're leaning on the 2022 midterms to buffer their point.
You had certain Democrats who were supporting Trump surrogates.
I'm sorry, they were supporting these folks and favoring, yeah, Trump surrogates during the 2022 midterms.
And people were anticipating a red wave that never arrived.
You see what I'm saying?
And so that's what they're thinking about.
The more we put Trump out there, the more we put Trump out there, the more we buffer support and augment support for these folks who support him, ultimately it will lead to our victory.
That's how they're thinking.
And I'm saying, no, not what I'm seeing.
I think that he has damn near a cult following.
I'm not calling folks cultists or anything like that.
I'm just speaking metaphorically about how these folks are in terms of their love, their devotion, their belief in him.
And they're not going anywhere.
And then you got Hispanics who are supporting him now, according to the polls.
You've got more black folks who are supporting him now, according to the polls.
And even though they're swearing that the overturning of Roe v. Wade, along with some of the charges that have been executed against him, that that's going to turn off white women, well, we ain't seeing that evidence.
And so I'm looking at it from that standpoint.
And I'm like, well, wait a minute now.
Are y'all not paying attention?
Because let me tell you something.
Charlemagne of God said it best when he said Joe Biden is not inspiring at all.
You almost get the impression that the Democrats who are pushing for Joe Biden to get four more years, because that's what they were chanting at the State of the Union address, four more years, four more years.
The man's going to be 82 in November and you chant for four more years.
But you've got progressive leftists on this side chanting for four more years.
I don't know if they know how embarrassing that is, okay?
Okay, but that's neither here nor there.
The point is, is that when you're doing that, I'm looking at them and I'm saying to myself, come on now, this is utterly ridiculous.
You think this is going to get it done.
But I tell you what I'm starting to suspect.
They don't know if Joe's going to last four more years.
And all they care about is that he gets through Election Day and the inauguration.
And then after that, who's the next line in line?
Scammer Harris.
And I think that's how folks are thinking.
But my problem with it is, again, we're capitalist.
We like competition.
What happened to competing with him and winning?
What's all the lawfare about?
One charge after another.
You got Letitia James and a New York Attorney General in New York.
You've got the folks in Georgia with Fannie Willis and others.
You've got, you know, Mar-a-Lago situation.
You got a point.
I mean, we're really, really, really going to have a trial about hush money to a former porn star.
That's what we're doing.
That's what we're doing now.
I'm like, are you kidding me?
Now, don't get me wrong.
I'm not advocating that anybody should be above the law at any time.
What I am saying is he's the president of the United States, the former president of the United States.
You talk to us about Russian collusion.
You talk to us about a bevy of things over the years.
Man's still running.
Four indictments, 91 counts, and the man gets more campaign dollars.
Climbing in the polls, okay?
And last time I checked, he still ain't been in cuffs.
He still ain't been put behind bars.
And he's the presumptive GOP nominee.
You can't stop him.
You cannot stop him.
And so for me, I find myself ashamed of the Democratic Party for their lack of a competitive fervor.
You had since 2016 to come up with somebody else.
And you still can't do it.
That is pathetic.
It is pathetic.
And it is no excuse for it whatsoever.
It is 2024.
In eight years, you should have been able to find somebody that can compete with this man other than a soon-to-be 82-year-old incumbent.
Well, let me ask you this, though.
Yes.
Do you want Democrats to win?
That's a tough question.
That's the question.
But it's totally fair, bro.
I'm not going to write that question.
It's totally fair.
I have to confess what most folks who sit before guys like yourself don't.
It's hard to figure out.
Like, for example, supposedly we've got a good economy.
Unemployment is relatively decent, around 4%.
You know, black unemployment, a little under 6%, about 5.6%, if I remember correctly.
But then you listen to the right and it's like, what about inflation?
And then you're driving in California and you're paying an arm and a leg for gas.
You're going to the supermarket, you're buying some milk, you're buying some bread, whatever.
Because see, contrary to what folks believe, I actually do go to the supermarket.
Okay.
I do buy my own stuff.
You know, all of this other stuff.
I'm like, you're watching and you're seeing all of this stuff.
And it's like, who's telling the truth?
Do we have a good economy or not?
Is it really a crisis at the border or not?
I believe it is.
Do you, you know, is inflation a real thing?
Is it imaginary?
You're looking at all of these different things.
You're talking about national security, the war in Ukraine.
Should we support them?
Should we give them more money than we've already given them?
You're looking at the, you know, Israeli, you know, Hamas conflict.
I call it the Israeli Hamas conflict as opposed to the Israeli Palestinian conflict.
You know, but I don't touch that because I don't know enough and that's not my lane.
But I also find myself, okay, well, we got folks here saying, stop this, stop this, stop the bombing, stop all of this.
And then you have other folks like, hell with that.
Hamas has to be eliminated because look at what they've done, October 7th and the kidnapping and 130.
You're hearing all of this.
And you read the different publications.
I'll read the Washington Post one minute.
I'll read the New York Times the next.
I read Wall Street Journal the next.
I'm watching the channels, Fox News, MSNBC, CNN.
I'm going back and forth.
And literally, we've changed as a society.
We can take the same information and put a completely different twist on it to make it look like who's right, who's wrong.
Somebody as knowledgeable as you guys have proven to be with no more than me at this moment in time.
I'm studying more and more and more of it every day because I'm fixated on it just like I am with sports.
But I'm saying, if you tell me what is definitively true, that's undeniable.
I can tell you how I feel.
My problem is, is that I literally could be sitting in front of one person on the left with the same exact information that I'm sitting in front of somebody 15 minutes later with on the right.
And they have two completely different versions.
And I think that's why America is so lost.
Because folks are confused.
They don't have time when you're out there hustling and bustling and trying to take care of your family, pay mortgages, maintain or elevate your quality of life.
You don't have time to study everything that needs to be studied.
You've got congressional and senate figures telling you they signed bills they didn't even read.
Literally.
I've seen them on tape doing this.
And so, when you have that going on, it's really, really difficult to say, oh, I know this.
But if you tell me these are the facts, Stephen, beyond a shadow of a doubt, I don't give a damn what it is.
I can tell you how I feel about it.
I can do that.
Yeah, you know, it's interesting you say that.
And thank you for being, you know, straight up with it.
That's the one thing about you that why I relate and I like watching you because you're straight up.
I'll watch and you'll say, Yeah, I'll see you.
You're defending Magic Johnson one time.
This guy's my friend.
I'm like, okay, he's sometimes easier to Magic than he is to somebody else to all this stuff.
But I love the fact that you're wrong.
You come out and give your feedback.
Here's what it makes me think about.
When asking about who you want to vote and who do I believe, do I go with the guy on the left or the guy on the right?
You ever had a guy in the NBA or sports that we all criticized and the media went after him.
So everybody's, what a freaking guy, you know, piece of this and seven years later, like, dude, that guy was mistreated by everybody.
Right.
What was that all about?
Right?
And you're like, dude, no, no, no.
No, I'm not with you, man.
I'm over here.
I'm on this guy's side.
I don't like what you did.
You know, the truth is this.
Right.
So we can look at a couple things with 2024 in a few different ways.
What we have right now, Stephen A, that I think is easy to do is two things.
You actually have four once.
We haven't had this.
You got two people we get to vote for that we got four years to choose from each.
It's not a what if.
Right.
It's not a, well, if he, do you want somebody like Hillary Clinton, do you want a man like this to have access to the nuclear button?
I don't know if I do.
Well, guess what?
You know, he had it for four years.
Right.
What happened?
And you know, this guy had it for four years.
What happened?
So it's actually very easy systematically to sit there with data and say they went after this guy.
I was convinced he was tied to Russia.
Right.
$35 million Hillary Clinton.
That was a lie.
And everybody in the mainstream media was behind it.
Everybody, CNN of SNBC.
Guys, that's kind of shitty.
And then you try to defame character.
Then you went after the girls.
Then Eugene Carroll, $83 million.
Anderson Cooper asks, Was he, did he rape you?
Well, I think rape is more of a fantasy.
What are you talking about?
We got to go to break, right?
Answer the question: 91 different counts.
Mar-a-Lago's only worth $18 million.
This is not that good.
He thinks it's someone.
And then all of a sudden, CNN shows this week.
Well, Mar-a-Lago, if he was to do a fire cell, he could sell it for $240 million.
What happened to the $18 million?
Listen, all of these things are unfair, unfair, unfair.
And then this guy would go sit with anybody in any interview, to any platform, to anybody, CNN, Fox, CBS, ABC, 60 Minutes.
It didn't matter.
This guy is a gamer.
We'll go anywhere.
And you go on the other side.
No, no, no way.
How many times did Obama go sit with Bill O'Reilly?
One time.
One time.
How many times did Hillary Clinton?
How many times?
How many times do they?
How many times has Biden been on Fox?
How many times?
How many times has Biden, how many times have you interviewed Hillary, Bill Clinton, Obama, or Joe Biden yourself?
No, never.
How's that possible?
But you've interviewed McCain.
So to me, when I watch some of this stuff, and you're on their side, like for the most part during that time.
At that time.
Not now.
But then when you bring it today and you see what's going on, and the confusing part for me is like, I'm a, I, you know, my mom's side, all Democrats, they were communists.
My dad said they were imperialists.
So there was a debate between the two where he said rich people are greedy and poor people are lazy.
So I have to kind of figure it out on my own to see where the reality was.
Today, four years versus four years, we got three Afghanistan screw up.
You know, Ukraine and, you know, Russia looks like we're going to have to give these guys another Afghanistan of a couple trillion dollars of taxpayers' money that we keep sending money out.
Great.
Israel, Hamas.
Okay.
All right.
Whether we know everything about the history of it or not, how come this didn't happen four years ago?
How come there was nothing going on four years ago?
So when you look at it that way, what is happening a lot that I talk to guys who are celebrities, influencers, Hollywood, TV, somebody that you watch, there's a couple different camps.
There's the one camp that is like, look, man, I'm still going to vote left.
There's the other camp that says, dude, I'm not going to tell you who I'm voting for, which is kind of like the middle.
Like if you had that one interview with Denzel, who did you vote for?
It's none of your business.
I don't know if you remember that interview.
I totally remember.
I don't blame him for that either because Hollywood's different.
Exactly.
Hollywood's different and they would hold him accountable in ways most others can't nor would.
But here's the feeling I'm getting with you, bro.
The feeling I'm getting with you, which is why I'm kind of like enamored with like the journey you're going through.
I'm just kind of following it.
Right.
I think you got to fight.
And I think, you know, moms left certain values of pride and dad.
And it's like, hey, dude, you got a job to protect this country that gave you this life.
And I feel like there is something going on with you that's kind of like, you know, you want to talk, but, you know, it's kind of like, am I really going to say this?
Can I really say this?
It's not that.
It's just that I want to be as sure as you are.
That's what I'm saying.
I owe it to the audience.
I owe it to the people to make sure that if I'm going to come out with fire and brimstone, I know what the hell I'm talking about.
And sometimes when it comes to these issues, I don't.
So I'm just being honest.
Bro, what would happen if you came out and you said, let's just say in the month of October, Stephen A came out.
Let's be real.
Sure.
You came out on your podcast, obviously not at the network you would put on your podcast.
You said, guys, I'm going to say something right now.
You guys are going to be very upset.
I'm okay.
What happened if you in the month of October said, I'm voting for Trump?
I'd be called a sellout and a coon by my own community.
That would be automatic.
That's exactly what they would say.
But what I would tell you is to know something about me, I wouldn't give a damn.
I'm not scared.
I'll say what I feel.
Let me tell you, let me address the point that you made earlier.
My belief is I'm going to vote for Biden.
Now, you have to remember it's how you're looking at the presidential election might be a little bit different than me.
For example, I'm the kind of person that might vote for the president being a Democrat.
And every other position, Republican.
Every senator, every congressional figure, every local.
In other words, because I view the presidency.
I understand it's the commander in chief.
I get it.
But I view, and listen, I will preface it by saying I'm open to correction.
I truly am.
I view the presidency as more of a statesmanship position.
If I interviewed Trump, I would look him in his face and tell him why.
I would never, I'm not calling you a racist.
I'm not saying that all your policies were wrong.
Hell, the economy was thriving before COVID.
I remember.
But you don't know how to act.
You just, I said, you don't care what you say.
You don't care about how divisive you come across.
You don't have any sensitivity whatsoever to how you scare the living hell out of people with your rhetoric and with your aloof.
I don't know if the word is aloofness or just a disregard for the importance of unity.
I believe you believe in America.
I believe in America.
Let me tell you what I believe in about America.
I believe that when we're together, nothing can stop us.
Nothing.
I don't care if it's a bad president.
I don't care if it's bad people on Capitol Hill.
I don't care if corporate America is garbage.
I don't care if Wall Street's messing up.
We will overcome anything when we're together.
And I remember how I felt this way.
And this is the only time I'm 56 years old.
And it's the only time in my life I ever felt this way.
9-11 happens.
And that first plane goes into the first tower.
And I'm laying in my bed.
I'm in an apartment in South Jersey at the time of Ways, New Jersey.
I'm laying in my bed and I'm on the phone with one of my friends.
And I'm like, see, this damn problem is probably drunk.
This is what we're talking about, right?
I mean, who the hell knows?
This is why I worry about flying.
And that's what I literally was reacting that way.
And then the channel was on CNN.
And I saw that second plane coming around.
And I said, whoa, wait a minute.
And we saw that plane come around and it hit that second tower.
And the first words out of my mouth, excuse my language, is, holy shit, we are under attack.
And at that moment, it wasn't black.
It wasn't white.
It wasn't Latin.
The United States of America is under attack.
You are after us.
I didn't see anybody that was an American citizen and thought about, I didn't think about race.
I didn't think about divisiveness.
I didn't think about hostility.
I didn't think about anything.
We are under attack.
I'm 56 years old.
It's the only time I've ever felt like that in my life in this country.
Isn't that sad though, Stephen, that it has to take terrorists flying airplanes into buildings, killing thousands of Americans, ready for us to go, I don't care that you're black.
I don't care.
That is the saddest thing to hear.
And then, Steve, going back, if you don't mind, Patrick, I'm going to the fact that Trump's divisiveness.
Let me ask you, Stephen.
You're going for president.
You're going to go run for president.
As you come in, you don't even think you're going to win.
You find out, Stephen, that the president before you was spying on you in your campaign.
Think about this.
Think about this.
Spying on your campaign.
Then the chick that you're running against paid all these millions to have this fake Russian thing.
So by the way, your anger's building.
I'm getting there.
Then the two impeachments.
Then this 2020 FBI is at Twitter blocking all the stories from Hunter and everything.
How was your, you, Stephen A. Smith, how is your attitude going to be?
Are you going to be like this guy?
My attitude is going to be probably stink.
I'm going to be furious.
I'm going to be all of those things.
Yes.
But I also know what I signed up for.
And I signed up to be a president to all the people, not to come across as somebody who's only loyal to my constituency who put me in that office.
Because you do have that with some politicians.
They think about who got them there.
And I understand when you campaign.
Please don't get me wrong.
I'm trying to get off trying to maintain power.
I get that part.
But what I'm saying is, once you're there, you got an obligation to be bigger than that.
And when you find yourself, I remember I saw Cat Williams, the comedian, joking about this when he was doing a concert in Jacksonville.
And he was like, Trump is coming.
You know, he ain't playing games.
And who do he go out?
Kathy Griffin.
He's talking about Kathy Griffin.
Kathy Griffin.
You know, and I'm like, you just find yourself.
It's like, there comes a point in time where you elevate to a certain level in life where the pettiness has to go out the window because you got to remember it's not just about what you do.
It's about what you're convincing the American citizen you're doing.
You can't scare the living hell out of people because that causes chaos too.
And what it does is it distracts us from the very good that you might be doing because we're caught up in all the noise you've created.
And then listen, I firmly believe, and I've said this publicly, they say 81 million plus people voted for Joe Biden.
I don't believe that for one second.
I believe 81 plus million people voted against Donald Trump.
They didn't want him there.
They couldn't take it anymore because he was so unsettling.
And that's the difference.
Big boy, big rules.
A lot of people might feel differently.
That's where I'm at with it.
Now, I respect that.
And I think a part of why would 81 million people feel that way?
Let's go through what is the easiest emotion to manipulate people with.
What is the easiest emotion?
It's very simple.
Fear sharpens listening.
If you can sell an entire congregation, you ever gone to a pastor, he gets up and he says, If you don't get baptized today, you're going to hell.
And here's what hell looks like.
Oh, my God.
I'm getting baptized right now, right?
So they sold Trump as the second coming of the guy from Germany.
And many Americans who don't read, who don't follow politics, who live a simple life, who these guys are trying to pay their bills.
They're trying to watch a game on Sunday, you know, maybe having a barbecue.
You're trying to do basic things.
They don't have time to go read all the stuff that's going on.
And they're like, you know what?
I don't want to deal with any of this stuff.
The part that I give the left a lot of credit to is the following.
When COVID happened and everybody knew it came from China, U.S. could have done what they did during 9-11 and been united against China, but U.S., the Democrats became united against Trump.
And they did such a phenomenal job putting all the blame on him.
Everything.
And by the way, check this out.
Okay.
You said vaccine played a big role in your life, right?
I think in 2022 or 2021, you said, if it wasn't for vaccine, I wouldn't have been here in all of this.
That's what they told me.
I said, that's what the doctors told me.
Fantastic.
And so do you know when the vaccine was ready?
Do you know when the vaccine was announced?
It was while Trump was there.
No, it was two days after election.
Yeah, weird.
Exactly.
But guess who got it done?
He did.
Trump got it done.
But they announced it only two days after election.
Because imagine if they would have announced it two days pre-election.
Right.
Fastest.
He would have gone crazy.
Imagine if the New York Post story would have stayed.
50 intelligence officers came out signing, saying there's nothing in the laptop.
And then later on, we found out there was plenty of things on the laptop.
That's fair.
But you're bringing up what you're talking about.
When you're talking about COVID, for example, that wasn't what was scaring a bunch of people.
It was the riots in the streets.
It was the mayhem.
It was the fact that they went, the left, as you pointed out, went about the business.
Great strategy.
Demonizing.
Demonizing Trump.
And to get to your point, you have a responsibility to be big enough to see that coming and to be more adroit in your approach towards resolving issues and making sure you highlight who you are.
CNN was one of the ringleaders one would say when it came to their positions against Trump.
Last time I checked, they weren't number one.
That's Fox.
Yeah, but that's the Fox.
No, no.
To give you an example of basketball.
Sure.
Okay.
So I don't know how many points did Dominic Wilkins average in a season when he was killing it.
35 points a game.
I think he had a 37-point season.
Ridiculous.
What did they do?
They lost.
They lost.
And then when the Pistons.
But they didn't have a team.
When the Pistons won, who was averaging the most points on that team?
19 points a game?
Prince, or was it who?
Maybe Sean C. Phillips?
21 points.
Rip Hamilton.
Yeah, but they didn't have Rip Hamilton's post, but it was like a 1918, 20, 21-point game.
They didn't have a 32.
They didn't have a 28.
They didn't have a 20.
The point is this.
Take a 21 CNN.
Take a 17 MSNBC.
Take a 16 CBS.
Take any of that.
All of that beats 40 points a game.
That's Fox News.
So the collective effort of everybody combined, Fox is nothing.
Okay, you confirm that.
Say that, but here's what I can do.
Here's what my retort would be.
You have any idea the size of Mark Levin's audience?
You have any idea about the size of Sean Hannity's office?
Not close.
Of an audience?
I mean, I'm just saying you turn around, you look, and I understand.
We talk about the quote-unquote liberal society that we live in.
I can't tell you how many people in my business I know for a fact ain't liberal.
They can talk that nonsense all they want to.
But when you see how they conduct themselves, when you see them in the audience, when you go up there, oh, they don't have those views.
They don't have those views.
I think that Trump lost the election more than the conservatives did.
I think he, he alienated people because of his.
I know, I know, first of all, I know a lot of Republicans, okay?
And I know of Republicans who were flat out exhausted because he didn't know how to act.
Now, listen, listen, you're a very successful businessman.
And I'm saying to you, it's perfectly understandable why you would feel different.
Because again, the world that you live in, you have to know more than most.
And because you know more than most, the actual substance of his policies, how it works for our society compared to the left and stuff like that, you'll choose that.
It's perfectly understandable.
But I'm saying to you, here's what you would know.
And this is what you're not.
That's fair.
This is what I think you need to give yourself credit for.
You know, there's nowhere on earth you're this successful if you don't have an idea of what your audience wants and what to give them.
Trump knew it and did it in 2016.
He played the game.
Hillary should have gone to Wisconsin.
She should have gone to Pennsylvania.
She should have gone a couple of places to campaign in the last few days.
I don't want to hear about the FBI director ruining it for her.
I'm quite sure it had something to do with it.
But the point is, you got to go out there and campaign.
Trump was everywhere.
He was everywhere.
He knew.
And then in 2020, he thought, hey, I'm the man.
Yeah, I'm going to go out there and campaign and stuff like that.
But I do what the hell I want to do because these damn people are getting on my nerves.
And it cost him because he lost his way and he forgot about governing the whole as opposed to just the people who are.
But guess what, Mr. Stephen A. Smith?
Yes, sir.
So remember when I said earlier, I said at 41, 42 years old, you're going through that.
And what was your answer?
Yeah, I didn't know anybody.
Because it was the first time ever you're going through that.
Age doesn't matter.
So to him, this is the first time he's been a president.
He's delivered an incredible economy to the country.
Why are they turning against me?
Well, it's the first time he was president, but it wasn't the first time he campaigned.
He campaigned in 2016.
So winning in 2016, this is four years later.
I know, but from the perspective, I wrote a couple of things down here.
So in running an insurance company, I've been in it for 20-some years.
You know what it taught me a lot?
It taught me a lot about human nature.
And you're like, I've never ran a big company this size.
Every year, I didn't run a company that size.
So every year, I'm like, I've never run a company this size.
I've never run a shit.
I'm dealing with all these different states, 49 states, a few hundred offices, 30,000 agents.
I'm comfortable with 20 agents, 50 agents, 100 agents.
So every time you go into a new place, it's a new level, right?
How do you handle it?
Okay.
And I learned one thing very quickly.
The guys that were complaining and bitching and were the loudest were able to convert more people into their way of thinking than the quiet guys that went and just got the job done.
Okay.
So if we have to choose between the left and the right, which ones are more professional complainers, it's the left, complainers.
I don't think the right has anybody that is as good as complaining as AOC is.
I don't think the right has anybody that's as good as complaining as, you know, Bernie Sanders is.
I don't, Elizabeth Warren, professional.
I can go on and on and on to be like, oh, these rich people and these capitalists and all that look up and say, should anybody be worth this kind of money?
Or look at this guy.
You should guys, Walmart, Amazon, you guys should be paying $15 an hour minimum wage.
How should these billionaires not pay $15 an hour?
Hey, bro, you, Bernie Sanders, you don't pay your employees $15 an hour.
Oh, well, you know, we're going to make that adjustment.
Oh, so you're a hypocrite.
Okay, I got you.
No problem.
Billionaires and billionaires and millionaires and billionaires.
Then you become a millionaire.
Now it's billionaires, right?
So I'm sorry, you're a millionaire now.
So when you watch all of that and you're going through it himself, credit to the left for making him and painting him out to be the enemy that he became.
But by the way, I think things are so different today because you watch.
Okay, let's go back to, you've talked about this before, and I'll just kind of ask you, I think it's good for the audience if you want to go through it.
1960, 64% of African Americans will vote Democrats.
Yes, sir.
The rest was conservative.
Yes, sir.
Let's put liberal and conservative.
That's a better way of saying it, right?
64 liberal, 36 conservative.
1964, four years later, 92% blacks are voting Democrats.
Yeah.
Linda B. Johnson's civil rights legislation.
So what happened there?
Maybe give a little bit of the history of Goldwater, you know, Lyndon Johnson, what he did.
JFK is assassinated.
Linda B. Johnson's in office.
Republicans and Democrats, back in the day, Dixiecrats, bipartisanly bring a bill to the desk of Linda B. Johnson.
He signed civil rights legislation in the law.
According to whatever reports you believe, Linda B. Johnson says we bring this legislation, we sign this legislation in the law, we'll have the Negroes voting for us for the next 50 years.
Sure enough, that's what it was.
And I think me personally, as I've edified myself over the years to see what's been transpiring in our community, on one hand, when I look at legislation and I think about affirmative action and other things, and I see how I've benefited because opportunities were given to me at a particular moment in time in the 80s, for example, when, you know,
that some would say may not have been given to me if I were not an African-American or you didn't have affirmative action in a place and what have you.
When you hear those things, you're trying to lean left because you're saying they're thinking about us, they're thinking about us.
And like you said, those messengers from the Democratic Party are very profound.
You've got Jimmy Carter in office, but the economy was so bad, so Reagan had to get him out of there.
But you got Reagan in office from 80 to 88.
You're looking at what transpired in his administration, good or bad, depending on how you think about it.
But if you're not educated, what are you thinking?
Did he care about black people?
You're actually asking those questions if you're coming from the black community and you're not reading all the time.
You're not educating yourself because you're literally trying to survive.
And when that happens, ultimately it becomes habit.
Your mama voted Democrat, your dad voted Democrat, your big sister, big brother voted Democrat.
How could you think about voting any other way?
And all of a sudden, those habits kick in, and then you get older and older, and you start seeing how it profoundly affects your life as an individual.
And you're like, wait a minute.
Like, for example, for me, when we go back to 2016, 2020, yeah, Hillary was somebody that I would not have minded seeing in office.
In 2020, I can tell you right now, I would have voted for Kasich.
In 26, I'm sorry, I would have voted for Kasich.
I would have voted for Chris Christie.
I would have voted definitely for those guys.
And there's a plethora.
I would have voted for Nikki Hilly.
If Nikki Hilly was running right now, instead of Donald Trump, she would be getting my vote over the Democrats.
I wouldn't hesitate.
I wouldn't hesitate because no matter what you think about those folks, they show you they know how to be an adult in the room.
That's a far cry from where I was 15, 20 years ago.
It would have been Democrat all day, every day.
I don't think like that now.
I don't think like that now.
And I don't, and honestly speaking, I don't think anybody should.
I don't think it's right to have any party affiliation with today's politics because I don't think you can trust either side.
I think you got to watch what they do, see what they do, and see what policies work best for you.
And Mark Levin once said this to me, along with Dr. Michael Eric Dyson.
He said, hey, man, most people vote their issues.
They're not looking at immigration in the economy.
Whatever issue is most near and dear to them, that's what they focus on.
So you got a black community right now that'll look at Joe Biden.
You know what they'll say right now?
Well, you know, Barack Obama gave about $328, $330 million to HBCUs, historically by colleges and universities.
Trump comes in there, he gives about $360 eight years later.
Barack Obama did that in 2010.
Trump did that in 2018, about $360 million.
But now look what Biden and the Biden administration has done.
They've dedicated over $7 billion.
For some folks, that's enough.
Not for me, not for others, but for some folks, that's enough.
And it's about finding that one issue because why?
How did they learn?
Then this is why can't I can fault the politicians just as much as I can fault the voter?
Because folks got that way because the politicians got them that way.
Because you go into the community, you go into their respective communities and you give that song and dance and that lip service about that one issue they cared most about.
That's what you wanted.
That's what you trained the voter to be like.
And in most instances now, it's come back to bite you.
May I?
I want to say, because you said a lot and I want to write it down and I want to go through each of these to the best of my ability.
So 1964, Rob, you pulled it up and I'm glad you said it because I went and I actually looked at Snopes.
Go to Snopes because I wanted to know, did he actually say that, right?
Because this is what we found.
I won't read it, but the audience can read it.
Can you go a little lower where it shows the whole thing?
Okay, we can just show that at the top and then we'll read the whole thing.
Okay, right here.
You can do that right there.
These boom, that's right.
They're getting pretty uppity these days and that's a problem for us.
They've got something now they've never had before.
The political pull to back up their uppity.
Now we've got to do something about this and we've got to give them a little something, just enough to quiet them down, not enough to make a difference.
And then boom, you know that line, you brought it up.
I'll have him voting this way Democratic for the next 200 years.
You know what Snopes said?
Snopes didn't say that's not right.
Go a little bit more unproven.
And Snopes is one that would typically be quick to say they never said this.
Then CNBC writes an article, if you can pull this one up.
CNBC writes an article saying Lyndon Johnson was a civil rights hero, but also a racist.
And if you look at the stuff about him, how many times he dropped the N-word and all this other stuff, this guy was not wanting to do what he did with civil rights.
Credit goes to one man and the community that pushed it.
There's a reason why we all have a poster or painting of him in our offices and our walls, and he's admired by everybody.
It doesn't matter left, right, center, white, black, Asian, Hispanic, everybody loves and admires what this man did.
One of the greatest movements of all time.
He accomplished it in a peaceful way, different than X.
He was able to get it done, right?
Okay.
At that time, you know, can you type in Civil Rights March?
Just type in Civil Rights March if you don't mind doing that.
Just type in Civil Rights March and go to images if you could do that.
You know, when you type in civil rights, click on that first picture.
What do you see a lot of?
Look at the way they're dressed.
Just look at the way, go to the bottom left picture, maybe that's got more people in suits, bottom left.
Bottom left?
Look at the ties.
Look at the suits.
Look at the tuxedos.
Look at the bow ties.
Wow.
Pure class on the way it's being dressed.
So Lyndon Johnson, War on Poverty, 1964.
Do you know at the time him, can you look up when Planned Parenthood came out?
Maybe you look and look at, I don't know the exact year.
When did Plant turn to come out?
I think it was 71, 76.
70.
What year is it?
Go a little bit singer, whatever her name is, where he started the movement.
Anyways, so you look at some of this data and you see that we went at the time when kids are being born.
Only 4% of kids in America, if you can pull up the stat rock, 4% of kids in America were born, okay, in single-family households.
96%, mom and dad.
Fast forward, we went from 4% to 41%.
And by the way, it's even higher for African Americans.
This is America.
This is not African Americans, percentage of children born out of wedlock, but African American is to the roof.
That wasn't the case.
You guys were always united, conservative.
It's a good community, respectful, Bible bell.
When I was in the Army and my friends in the Army, I was hanging out when I would go see their families.
I was afraid of their mothers.
No, no, seriously, your mother would have talked to me like I'm her son.
And she would put me in my place.
It was a different kind of a culture that was what I was accustomed to, right?
So to me, when they say systemic racism, if you want to give anybody credit, it's Lyndon Johnson.
And he succeeded in actually trying to create that kind of an environment.
And the reason why he was very creative on the way he did it is he blamed the other side for it and got them, the blacks, to vote Democratic for God knows how many decades until now where things are slightly changing.
And I'll wrap up the thoughts here, and I want to get your— Can I respond to what you're saying?
Of course.
Yeah, absolutely.
I think that when you mention all of those things, first of all, you've said nothing that I can dispute.
Nothing.
Because that's just factually correct, what you pointed out.
And I think that the important thing to bring up when we bring that stuff up is that is exactly the reason why black folks in America have historically over the last 50 plus years had that divide with the Republican Party.
Stay with me.
What happened is, Patrick, you invite me onto the show and you talk to me.
We're having this conversation.
You show me facts.
I leave this office.
I give you no resistance.
And then you turn on a TV and I'm like, Patrick Ben Davis, full of it.
Look what he brought up.
This is racist BS, blah, You'd never want to talk to me again.
It's disingenuous.
It's not educated.
It's not fair.
One of the things that we have to pay attention to is that there is a Republican Party that can't disguise its resentment towards black America because of what you just pointed out.
It's just that we're looking at it differently.
As this black person, when I got to know Republicans and I heard my parents speaking about conservatism and stuff like that, I remember asking my mother one day, I said, you know that fact.
How would you feel if you know that you contributed to bringing civil rights legislation to the desk of the presidency to sign in the law?
And that was ignored because the party that he represented, he made sure they got all the credit for what you played a role in bringing to the table that helped the African American community, supposedly.
And it was completely ignored.
You'd lose all respect because you'd believe you're not educated enough.
You're not doing, you're putting forth your due diligence to know it wasn't just him.
It was us.
And his intent wasn't honorable.
Ours was.
I think that you have a lot of Republicans who are knowledgeable about that history that you just pointed out and the distaste that they have had for African Americans for a period of time at the very least emanates from that, from folks not knowing what role they play.
When I listen to a Sean Hannity or Mark Levin and Andrew Wilkow and others talk about black America's history and racism, they never fail to point out the Democrats played a huge, huge role in this, y'all.
And the black community lets them off the hook.
They look at us.
And there's a level of absolute frustration, palpable frustration that comes from that.
I don't always agree with it, but I understand it, which made it easy for me to communicate with members of the Republican Party when they come to me and they want to talk about different issues.
Because I'm like, I want to learn more.
I want to hear this because you're not going to come to me and engage in demonization talking about the other side, in this case, the right.
You're not doing that.
What are your policies?
What are you bringing to the table?
Don't talk to me about them being racist because you know what else?
You're asking me to assume you're not.
How do I know you're not?
I know there were KKK members that were in members of the Democratic Party that won Capitol Hill.
Robert Bird of West Virginia, to name one of them.
I know that for a fact.
And so why are we to assume that just because you're a Democrat, you're on our side?
So I do get where you're coming from, and I understand.
Yeah.
So to me, that part to me is, you know, you check policies to see how it's benefited a community and you say yes or no.
You have no idea how much I, my favorite part of this podcast is when you said your mother, when she went on welfare, she was despised of it and she couldn't wait to get off of it.
I can't tell you what that means to me to salute and respect that.
And then let's go to a couple other things you said on who you would vote for and who you wouldn't vote for.
You said John Kasich.
He was a centrist.
I think he was an independent.
I don't think he was a Republican, but I think he was a centrist.
Yeah, I think he was a nice guy.
I think John Kasich was a nice guy.
He was a Republican governor.
He was.
Yeah, he was.
Yeah, he was a nice guy.
I think Christie, yeah, he's a fighter.
I actually enjoy listening to Christy.
I think he's a little bit, you know, I'm aware.
Yeah.
And I was a little bit like, you know, I think, you know, I have some friends that were, you know, part of Trump's camp.
He fired them.
And then there's a bitterness.
And, you know, that's between them.
I just watch it and say, you're not going to win being a bitter candidate.
It's just not going to happen.
You're not going to win that way.
And, you know, maybe that was it.
It wasn't.
It is what it is.
Nikki Haley.
So, you know, for me, when I wasn't into politics and I was purely business guy, like, I don't have time for this stuff, man.
Yeah, I'm just going to go to business, make my money.
My dad's going to retire in 99 cents.
That's a lot of people in this world.
Yeah, I'm like, I have zero desire for politics, right?
And then the bigger I got, I'm like, oh, you kind of got to study a little bit of politics on what's going on, right?
Because why would I want to study politics?
The taxes you pay is politics.
The policies in your community is politics.
Homelessness is politics.
The war that happened that wasn't safe is politics.
All that stuff is, okay, I got to pay attention to it.
So a Nikki Haley, very eloquent, incredible speaker, tough, strong, good background, you know, all of that.
So now we're dealing with left, right, and then you have the anti-establishment, the anti-establishment, and the establishment.
The anti-establishment is not Republican, like Kennedys were anti-establishment.
Okay.
Reagan was semi-anti-establishment.
Trump, definitely anti-establishment, right?
Lincoln was anti-establishment.
These are anti-establishment guys.
Establishment is the big families.
You know, you see some of the guys that have been president multiple times.
That's establishment.
When somebody's part of the establishment, they're part of the same party.
Okay.
It's no longer like a left or right.
Nikki Haley to me is part of the establishment.
She's an establishment right.
She's going to do what the establishment right's going to do.
And in many of the states, she got all the Democratic votes.
They were willing to vote for her.
Some of the big money guys that are in New York establishment guys are willing to give her the money.
Let me go back to what you said about Trump on how he handles himself.
And then we can, you know, have some final thoughts and we can transition to a different story.
Sure.
I read this story, this book called by Donald T. Phillips, Lincoln on Leadership.
And I don't know what chapter it is, 11 or 13.
You know, he says, search until you find your grant.
Okay.
Search until you find your grant.
And he has all these guys that are his generals.
Lincoln does.
McClellan.
Keeps wanting to train his people.
Very proper, very nice, you know, respectful, everything.
But he just, are we going to war yet?
North.
No, no, no.
We're just training.
We're still preparing.
Are we going to war yet?
No, no, we're just, are we there?
No, man, I'm firing this guy.
Bring another guy and bring another guy.
And bring in this chapter called Search Until You Find Your Grant.
If you do anything, buy this book and just read that chapter, whatever the chapter is.
Search until you find your grant.
It was written 31 years ago on Tico's birthday, by the way.
It's pretty cool.
So, anyways, and then eventually he gets a hold of a guy named Ulysses S. Grant, who's a drunk, who is getting into bar fights, okay, who he can't get a hold of, who doesn't call Lincoln back.
And Lincoln is like, what the hell is the matter with this guy, right?
So if we were to judge Grant on the basis of, well, he should be more proper, more eloquent.
He should do this.
He should do that.
Guess what?
He called him back, whatever the timeline was, 90 days later, hey, the war is done.
We won.
You're kidding me?
No, it's over with.
You won.
Are you serious?
Yeah, yeah, we just went.
So you weren't spending all these months getting trained?
No, no, everybody's ready.
We just went to war we won.
Right.
Are you serious?
Yes.
So then what happens is you sit there.
It's like bringing it back to the world that, you know, sports, the last dance.
Yeah.
Where it's like, one day, I'm in my, you know, Rod Dennis is going through one of his things.
Jordan's telling the story.
You know the story.
I know the story.
And all of a sudden, we're like, he's missing.
He's in Vegas.
And I go and walk into a room.
There's a bunch of naked.
And then, you know, she's telling the story.
She says, I'm in there naked.
I'm like, Michael's in the place.
He's like, what the hell is going on?
We got you.
Get your back, you know, got back to the game.
And he says, I just walk out.
And then all of a sudden, middle of the night, I'm like, who the hell is knocking on my door at midnight?
Opens the door.
It's Dennis.
He comes and he says, Hey, Mike, you got a cigar?
He says, Yeah.
He said, We sit there.
We have the cigar.
Doesn't say anything.
Doesn't say I'm sorry.
But from there on, he was locked in because Pippin was playing hurt to get the contracts back.
What did Rodman do?
He says, I've never seen Dennis play the way he did, right?
Sometimes the guys to go up against the enemies that are crazy enemies, they're not going to be the types of people that you want them to be.
I know you want them to be the types of person that we want.
So for us to go up and be able to have the audacity to go to North Korea to go sit down with G, to go sit down with Putin, to go sit down with all these guys to go up against the establishment, to go up against the people that are using the American government as a way to make their money, how these guys came into politics before they were poor.
Afterwards, they end up being richer while this guy went into politics, was rich.
After being president, he lost half his wealth.
And all this, so you're not going to find someone that's going to look that good.
I used to think an insurance agent's got to be somebody that's going to look like, first of all, I don't look like an insurance agent.
If you were to see me day one, I had orange highlights because I would put peroxide in my head and I would go to the beach and people are like, why does this guy look like this?
And I'm coming in with a tank top.
Middle East Conservative.
And then all of a sudden they're like, but this freaking guy is going to go find an agency and sell more policies than anybody else.
That's what the market needed.
So I can understand the point you were saying to be more presidential, but when you got a fighter, they're not going to look the way we want all the time.
Well, that is a beautiful, eloquent soliloquy you just threw out there.
Allow me to retort.
You know, that was a different time.
And it wasn't as chaotic as these times are.
You didn't have hundreds of millions of people with their own voice and their own outlets to say what they say and contribute to influencing lives the way that you do today.
And when you have somebody that is desensitized to that and they don't mind the chaos that's going on, I would say around them as opposed to beneath them.
That's something to take into consideration.
I'll sit here today and tell you right now, you give a lot of food for thought.
And I think that anybody that was gung-ho about, oh, Biden, Biden, Biden over Trump listens to what you're saying, I think they should really, really think long and hard about every word that came out of your mouth.
Because I don't disagree and I'm not dismissing your point.
I'm just simply trying to attach a level of tangible significance to the fear factor that somebody in that position acting that way has.
I don't know if Trump will govern the country or be on a vengeance tour.
I don't know whether or not he'll create civil war in this country and not give two damns about it.
Because when you are that pissed off, as you said, because he has been such a target for so long, warranted or not, because of his petulance that is flagrant and clear and undeniable, you do have cause to pause for him being in that position.
And to somebody, get what you want.
Listen, John Lewis is an iconic figure, God rest his soul, to a lot of African Americans in this country.
We saw a Trump that didn't even want to pay tribute or homage to him.
And Trump's words, he didn't do nothing for me.
He wasn't a supporter of mine.
You watch stuff like that and then you imagine folks on Capitol Hill, real, real stuff trying to get done, and the personal gets in the way because he didn't like what you said about him or what you did about him or whatever the case may be.
When you have that emanating from your leadership, there's a level of disbelief that comes attached to that that you can't ignore.
Because the Americans, listen, I'm not one of those guys that's a nationalist per se, but I had no problem with Trump, America first, America first.
Man, we got enough, we got billions to throw at Ukraine, but you telling me you're going to give $53 million prepaid credit cards in New York City.
You know, I mean, black people could have used that.
Won't hear that?
You know, when you look at Eric Adams and you look at Governor Hochul in New York, I don't want to hear that.
I don't want to hear that.
So when I think about Trump and America first, I'm like, it is the type of person that been like, wait a minute, Ukraine, what about this right here in our own country?
I don't mind that.
I appreciate that.
But how it will be received a lot of times depends on the individual who's disseminating that message.
And if you're a guy that isn't big enough to be above the fray because your responsibility is so much greater, then you're just a petulant individual in a position of power.
And do we really, really want a kid in that seat?
Now, we have to consider the alternative.
Well, who's going to be there if he's not?
And all of those things you pointed out are legit.
Inflation, legit.
War in Ukraine, legit.
When you see some of the things that have been transpiring in our country, the borders, and over 7.2 million illegal immigrants probably more, have stormed into this country.
That's a problem.
Listen, I don't want anybody starving.
I don't want anybody in danger.
I wish we could take everybody.
Make no mistake about it.
But in the end, there are a plethora of other countries throughout this world.
You can't invade their borders like that.
Can't do it.
So Americans would rather be flattered and lied to and deceived, but be respectful than have a guy that's going to tell you.
I think that's an extreme position.
But let me give it to you.
Okay.
Did you watch the DeSantis-Newsom debate?
Yes, I did.
Okay.
So on one end, if we rank DeSantis' ability to debate versus Newsom.
DeSantis.
The ability to debate.
Not the ability to debate.
I thought he was more successful substantively, but I thought that Newsom was ability to debate.
Purely ability to debate.
Is it even close?
Not even close.
They're not in the same lead.
Is that fair to state?
I think it's 10 to 1.
9 to 3.
Okay, let's not put him in thin.
No, I think that you got to get – DeSantis did have a lot of strong moments, more than people are willing to get.
No, I don't think you're getting where I'm coming from.
For example, so in the sports world, there may be guys that know sports better than you because they've been around for 30 years and you're 35 years old.
Let's just say not today.
I'm saying you're 35, you're coming up, right?
Sure.
But they're 55.
But you're a better debater.
Listen, there's a lot of strength in being a better debater than who's got the facts.
Right?
So there's that.
So I think Newsom has that, right?
Totally fair.
Here's a guy that got up.
All the data is against him.
Everything.
Homelessness.
How nasty San Francisco is.
How he cleaned it up for China, right?
What's going on there with the number one?
They are the number one highest unemployment state in America.
It's California.
Number one, right?
You go through all this stuff, but how does he speak?
Presidential, smooth, everything.
And you look at him and you say, man, this guy, can you imagine if he was in the White House?
That's exactly how you handle all this stuff.
So I think again, why I listen to you versus I listen to some of the guys over the years, because you straight up give it, right?
I'm like, damn, that was freaking tough.
But the way he delivered it, right?
Okay, good for you.
I think sometimes what we want and the results that's being given, we have to ask ourselves, do you value this more than actual results?
Then if that's where you are, you want somebody to say nice things to John, but get bad results and hurt you.
Well, then you're going to get exactly what you deserve.
You deserve that.
But if you sit there and say, okay, at least he's telling the truth, at least he's straight up.
Okay, cool.
You know what?
I don't like what he just said because I'm a fan of his, but I'm moving on.
There's a part of that that I would look at when it comes down to this.
And I would say to you, like, I told you earlier, you got to take into consideration who else is on Capitol Hill with him and what you got to go through to get things done.
Sure.
And when you have folks on, when you have folks on capital, I love checks and balances, me personally.
I don't want one party to have dominion.
Anytime, if you tell me Congress has got the Democratic majority, I want the Senate to have the Republican majority or vice versa.
That's the way that I am.
I love it.
I love the checks and balances because it makes me feel comfortable that this country will be on the right track because I know one individual or one party just can't get away with everything.
Even when all the Democrats were in power when Obama first took office, I wasn't happy with that.
Are you an Obama guy?
I voted for him.
I voted for him twice.
Now, like today in 2024, are you like a fan of his?
I respect the hell out of him.
I love him as a person and how he represented himself as a statesman, him, along with the great first lady that was Michelle Obama and their wonderful children.
But some of the things that he was doing, I didn't entirely agree with, no doubt about that.
And, you know, I remember when they talked about Biden and how he wouldn't support Biden running for the presidency in 2016.
I think I recently read something about that.
I think it was yesterday.
And they were talking about how Biden didn't really, he didn't really support Biden in 2016.
And, you know, Biden was against him sending those troops into Afghanistan.
And so it was no surprise that once Biden became the president, you know, he pulled folks out of there.
To me, I looked at something different.
And I think that Obama bothered me just like everybody else with this.
Everybody was of the mindset it was Hillary's turn.
Damn that.
Who are the people most interested in?
Because when you said it was, when the attitude was it was her turn, what that said to me was, well, we can manipulate the American people any way we want to.
We'll get them to support our choice.
You're not listening to what the people want.
And I'm always, always against that.
Final question until we transition.
I want to ask you about Scotty.
Scotty.
When we transition from here.
Can Trump do anything between now and November 5th to get your vote?
I would say it's more about what Biden, what Biden does, because he could get worse in certain respects.
You understand?
I don't rule out anything.
I would tell you that if you ask me today, as I've said repeatedly, Biden, Biden, Biden.
But I have to tell you, when I see some of the things that are transpiring, I'm not happy about it.
And if it were anyone, and I've said this publicly.
Yeah.
And I'll tell you, listen, one day I'll see Trump because Trump and I knew each other a little bit before he ran for the presidency.
And I never, the things that I've seen from him, the things that have been said about him, I never heard nor saw it before.
So a lot of what he does sometimes, I think he's just catering to his constituency as opposed to him being that way.
But having said that, I would tell him to his face, you know, I would vote in a heartbeat any Republican candidate that was up there.
Maybe not DeSantis.
I don't like some of the things happening in Florida for obvious reasons.
But outside of him, I would have voted for Christie.
I would have voted for Haley.
Hell, I might have thought about Ramaswamy.
I think he's crazy.
I think he's crazy in his own way, but smart.
You would have to love him.
Smart, smart.
But again, I'm just, listen, I don't want, I want people to know.
Oh, I'm not one of those dudes.
I'm not some leftist.
And I don't want, I wish the black community wasn't quote unquote leftist.
And I've said this when I've given speeches across this country.
And when people have seen me and they would misquote me and stuff, because I would be like, we're not in a racist country.
And they were like, what?
And I'd be like, obvious, obviously, to some degree, there was no race.
I said, not racist country.
I said, racism doesn't exist.
And then I'd pause and I'd say, obviously, I'm lying.
Of course it exists.
But damn it, that ain't no excuse to use that as a crutch to hold you back.
What happens is people would say, Stephen A said racism doesn't exist.
And stop there and don't tell the audience what I said and misrepresent my position.
And the other thing that I would say is, I wish for one election, every African and American in this country voted Republican.
Are you ready to make it this election?
You know what I'm saying?
I'm not ready to make it this election, but I'm going to.
But you're so funny.
But not funny, but only voting for Gargo.
Let me finish that though.
I said it for this one reason and one reason only.
Flatter me.
If you go to buy a house, you want to see the house.
If you go to buy a car, you want to test drive.
Stop just transparently supporting one party.
Make them work for you.
I think the one thing that's good for the Latino community in America is the whole immigration issue.
Because any immigration issues that we've had in recent memory forces you to focus on their community.
As a result, you're trying to figure out how to cater to their community and do things that they would support so you could get their vote.
We, as African Americans in this country, I think need to do a better job of that.
Two questions.
So can Joe Biden do to you in 2024 what you claim Trump did to 81 million people?
Yes.
Okay, that's all I want to know.
And the other thing I would tell you with which party can do more for me, I think I think about that, I'm like, so what do I want that party to do for me?
You know, sometimes what I want that party to do, the more entitlement they do, they're more they're destroying that community.
Think about that.
The more entitlement they give to a community, they're more, they're going to own that vote for longer.
You almost want that person to get off.
Anyways, Adam, I'm going to give you any questions here because I want to transition to a different topic.
But go ahead if you want to say something here.
That's a good thing for Stephen A.
I know your voice is amazing.
It's inflamed vocal cords.
But we're going to do this.
I think you and I are very similar because everything you said about family and the way we voted, right there with you.
2016, 0% chance I was voting for Donald Trump.
Zero.
2020, less than zero.
I think most Americans were so done with Trump.
Trump derangement syndrome, right?
I'm going to use your words against you.
Okay.
You said your definition of success, that meeting you had in 2009.
Yes, sir.
You said you weren't fully a man yet.
You said it was a data thing.
You were using emotion.
Yes, sir.
And they were using data.
PBD pointed out the data.
You know, people will say, well, you know, there's two wars in Ukraine and as Israel's going on and inflation.
I was like, oh, how about the mean tweets?
You missed the mean tweet by the orange dude yet?
It's like, you know what?
Kind of okay with those mean tweets.
So it's policy versus personality.
Believe me, sitting next to PBD for four years, we'll drip, will drip, will drip.
And for the first time in my life, I'm planning on voting Republican.
And I'm totally understanding where you're at with Trump.
What's it going to take for you to use the data and not the emotion?
Well, I don't believe I'm completely using the emotion.
If you remember what I said a while ago to all of you is that I talked about the information, what's accurate and what's not, because you find yourself confused because here you are thinking, okay, this is what the numbers show and this is what it says.
And then all of a sudden, it doesn't say that.
It talks about Biden.
It talks about unemployment and it talks about the economy.
And they say it's flourishing.
And you literally listen to the right and they say our economy is in shambles.
And oh, by the way, look at inflation.
And it drives you nuts.
I said to you that I wasn't sure about the data, what to definitively believe about it.
And that also played a role in how I feel.
So again, if I'm sitting up there and I'm looking at it and the data shows that exponentially Donald Trump is better for America than Joe Biden, then damn it, I got to come back on the show and go like this.
I didn't change my mind.
But the data is not that.
But that's not where I'm at.
Okay, but the data, you're talking economic data.
Just look at the border.
You don't need any data for that, Stephen A.
I don't.
Look at the wars that are going on in the world.
You don't need any data for that.
I don't support you.
Just look at your eyes.
I don't support Trump's rhetoric about the border.
I do support his position about the border.
But that's my point.
Right, right, right.
But I'm telling you, again, I'm not going to, I don't disagree with everything Donald Trump did.
The economy was flourishing before COVID.
That's a fact.
The border is an issue.
That is a fact.
It is a fact that I think Pierce Morgan pointed this out when he did an interview on a breakfast club, if I remember correctly, where he pointed out how Obama sent more illegal immigrants back than Trump did.
He just didn't advertise it.
So I get it.
I understand where you're coming from.
And I can't sit here in good conscience and act like, oh my goodness, because I hate the fact that he's classless or acts class.
I'm not calling the former president classless.
I'm talking about how he conducts himself.
No, you're right.
Sometimes he don't know how to act.
He doesn't know how to act.
He doesn't know how to act.
I totally get that.
And that is something that I would have to consider.
But I'm not there yet.
But you are absolutely right.
It would be immature for me to say that.
But you're getting close, is what you're saying.
I'm not going to even say that, but I'm not saying I can't.
Is this the closest you've ever been in your life to voting Republican?
Ever?
Like I said, you probably, you know, I was pretty close to voting for W for W. Bush.
First time or second time?
Against Al Gore.
Oh, 2020.
That's right.
No, 2020.
No, no, no, no.
I'm sorry, 2000, 2000.
Yeah, I was pretty close to that.
And like I said before, I would have voted for anybody.
I would, if it weren't, if the Republicans had anybody but Trump, it would be a foregone conclusion right now.
I would go to it.
So it's just a Trump thing.
It's a Trump thing.
Okay, God.
By the way, you remember what he said.
Again, I want to move on to the next topic.
We got 15 minutes and then we got to go grub.
He did say Biden, he said it 50 times.
He said, Biden, I said, can Biden do to you what Trump did to 81 million people?
He said yes.
The conversation stops right there.
I mean, that answer has already been given.
I want to go to a couple of things selfishly.
Sure, for me.
Please.
Last stance.
Yes, sir.
Do you think, you know, this whole No Bull tour, Scotty, Horace Grant, and, you know, is it Wellington?
I don't know who the other guys.
I think it's one of the centers that they're going around talking about what happened and how upset they were.
And Scotty comes out with the book, and I don't know who he did his interview with.
And he said, how do you want to be remembered as Scotty?
And he says, I want to be remembered as the greatest of all time, right?
I watched Scotty doing analysis on TV.
He's actually really good giving his analysis.
I actually enjoy watching his analysis when he gives, you had an interview with him one time when he says LeBron versus this.
And he says, you said, but statistically, LeBron, but Michael's the greatest of all time.
So how could you say that?
Michael at any point could average triple-double.
And he says, no, no.
He says he couldn't?
No, because it's not in his demeanor.
I'll say the same thing about Kobe.
And he's kind of giving that conversation.
What do you think happened to Scotty to all of a sudden come out thinking he's, you know, I want to be remembered as the greatest of all time?
What happened after the last stance to Scotty?
he wants the world to see him in a different light than he believes Michael Jordan has betrayed him as, particularly in the last dance.
I would tell you, Scotty Pippen is not accepting enough culpability for how Scotty Pippen ultimately influenced people to look at him.
It was you that signed the contract that Jerry Reinstorf advised you not to sign because he said you're not going to be able to come back and renegotiate.
I'm telling you this right now.
Don't do it.
And Michael Jordan and others told him that he wouldn't listen.
The same Scotty Pippen that is complaining about Jordan when Jordan was retired and was playing baseball.
It was Scotty Pippen kicking his sneakers up in the ears for the camera, showing that he was wearing Jordan and asking him to come back.
And when Scotty Pippen wanted his new contract, it was him that was vacillating back and forth, playing hard, not playing hard, playing, not playing and whatever because he was pouting over his contract, et cetera, et cetera.
And so you harbor responsibility.
It was you that refused to enter the game when Phil Jackson called Tony Kukoach's number.
That wasn't Michael Jordan.
And so those things played a role in Scotty Pippen being viewed the way that he was viewed.
But let's talk about how he's been viewed.
He's a six-time champion, one of the elite defensive players that ever played this game of basketball, and a person that Michael Jordan himself, who I know well, has said on countless occasions, is the greatest team.
I would have never won a championship without Scotty Pippen.
He's the greatest teammate I've ever had.
And I owe my six titles to him.
So for Scotty, it's about the money that you don't have compared to what Jordan has.
And it's about the lack of recognition.
But my response is you on the basketball court with and without Jordan for a decade plus.
You had ample opportunity to be seen as superior to Michael Jordan.
You know better.
You know better.
You were phenomenal.
You were a great, you're a hall of famer.
You're an Olympic gold medalist.
You're a member of the original dreams.
All of that's true.
You know good and damn well you were no Michael Jordan.
Stop it.
That's just how you feel because your frustration is coming out and you know that's going to go on the headlines.
But when you go that route, anybody that knows the game of basketball knows better.
You think Michael and Barkley will ever unite and we'll see a long-form conversation between the two of them in the next five, 10 years?
I don't think so.
I think that they'll have conversations.
I don't think they hate each other.
I know Barkley doesn't hate Michael Jordan because Barkley doesn't have that in him.
I mean, Barkley's a really lovable guy.
He's a really good guy, just very candid.
But in the case of Michael Jordan, you know, Michael Jordan, this is what I would tell you about Michael Jordan.
It's a lie.
It's a misnomer to think that you can't criticize him, that you can't tell him where you stand.
Just don't betray him.
Don't be somebody that says something in his face and then he's shocked by what you're saying when he sees you on television.
Don't be somebody that says something to him and that says something else later.
I've gotten calls.
I should be telling this.
He'd probably be upset for me telling this, but I'll do it anyway.
I've gotten calls over the years from Michael Jordan.
I know your ass didn't say what the hell I just heard you say, blah, blah, blah.
Kobe used to give him to me all the time.
I mean, Kobe was much worse than MJ.
But MJ is challenging me.
And I'm challenging him back.
If he's right, I have to concede he's right, which most of the time he is, by the way.
There were times when I disagreed, and I said so.
And I didn't give a damn how he felt.
And I said it on the air.
He had no problem with it because I said it.
And he wasn't surprised.
Knew exactly where I stood and he knew I was going to say it on the air.
Now, there's many, many conversations that we've had off the air that will never ever be repeated because I don't violate trust like that.
But that's what it comes down to.
And I think that Michael Jordan is one of those guys.
You know, Kobe was like that too.
You can do a lot of things.
Don't ever let them feel like they can attach the word betrayal to you.
They don't come back from that.
And when it comes to Scotty Pippen, Michael Jordan feels betrayed.
When Scotty revealed in his book his feelings for Michael Jordan and how he didn't even give his condolences in person to Michael Jordan, I was on the phone with Michael Jordan that day talking about something else.
And then we had heard about what Scotty Pippen had said.
And Michael Jordan was under the impression that it was just busy, it was chaotic, and all of this other stuff.
And that's why he never thought anything of it.
But all of these years later, when Scotty Pippet had alluded to his father passing away, his father being murdered, and how he didn't give his condolences on purpose, Michael Jordan's words were, I hope it's worth it.
Wow.
I hope it's worth it for him.
I have nothing.
And he literally said, I have nothing else to say.
And I know Michael Jordan well enough to know what that means.
Jimmy, why do you think Michael doesn't do a lot of media?
I mean, he did a lot of stuff with Ahmad Rashad back in the days.
That's his brother.
That's his brother.
And then I saw him do a couple things with the cigar guys.
And he's done a couple things here and there.
You know, I think he did Letterman when he was coming up with the shoes in the 80s.
But why doesn't he do it?
Because this is just my opinion.
I've never asked him that.
But I would tell you, knowing him the way that I do, he's incredibly guarded because he has to be.
And it's not just because he was such a, I mean, it was Michael Jackson and it was Michael Jordan.
No question.
I mean, they're just on another business.
They were talking about LeBron and his social about it.
They were talking about LeBron.
They were talking about LeBron and his popularity all they want to.
They don't even understand what Michael Jordan had to go through.
Okay.
And so you had that.
That's a big reason.
The other reason is the Jordan brand.
It's similar to Hollywood in this regard.
The wrong syllable can cost you at the box office.
People misconstrue.
You're subjecting yourself to the mercy of others' interpretations of what you say, feel, et cetera, et cetera.
And Michael Jordan is not somebody that ever, ever wants to give himself that headache.
That's just not the way he is.
But I can tell you he has a lot to say because he certainly always has a lot to say to me.
Oh, there is.
And you know, it's funny because when Last Dance came out, we were glued to this.
It was always Sunday night two episodes.
It was five weeks.
It helped that COVID was going on right now.
And there was nothing that went on.
That's right.
That's a good point on what came out.
Well, he saved us because that's what it wasn't supposed to come out.
If I remember correctly, it wasn't supposed to come out until June.
But once COVID halted the NBA season, he granted permission for it to be moved up so content could be provided while the games were not going to be.
You made the entire company watch all 10.
I rented out the Breakers Hotel.
I flew all my executives in.
We watched the whole thing in two days together.
And we decipher and we went through every single issue on every episode.
We took breaks and talked about it for two straight days.
I did an ABC special on it.
After Ed on ESPN, ESPN had me go on ABC and do a last dance special hosting the show because of it.
That's how big it was.
It was sick.
It was fantastic.
By the way, between three names, which one do you think will rekindle a relationship with Michael?
Okay, Scotty, Barkley, Isaiah.
Put you in Barkley.
That's easy.
Because it's love.
That's easy.
You know, one of my favorite interviews between the two of them is when Barkley and him are on Oprah Winfrey, and he's wearing that blue jumpsuit.
If he can pull up, type in Barkley Jordan and Oprah Winfrey.
No, you have to see because what he was wearing.
I mean, I think I'm getting it right.
Just go to images.
Right there.
That's the one, right?
The blue jumpsuit.
Good look.
Yeah.
Kind candy.
Yeah.
And just look at the way Michael's dressed.
Oh, geez.
And Michael was a guy that he was, you know, he's very honest and very forthcoming.
He doesn't give a damn.
And, you know, when I watched The Last Dance, when you try to watch things and peel things for your own fulfillment, your own life and what have you.
And when Michael Jordan was being interviewed at the last dance, before he was getting teary and said, break, right before that moment, he was like, I understand you might interpret this.
He said, but that's because you've never won anything.
That's right.
And he was talking about, he wasn't just talking about his teammates.
He was talking about the world.
The world.
That's right.
People who don't win and aren't committed to winning that don't understand what it is.
And so think about you and you running your business.
I now own, you know, I got my own production company.
I got my podcast and stuff like that.
I'm quite sure there are days, you know, me being a boss for the first time, really.
I mean, I'm the executive producer of First Take, but I'm not the boss.
With Stephen A. Smith's show and Mr. SAS Productions, I'm the boss.
And you sit that there and you see people, and some days they ain't happy with you.
And you're looking at them and you're like, they don't realize how unhappy I am with them on that particular day.
And the reason why is because when it's yours, there's an ownership that comes with it internally, subliminally, not just literally.
And your commitment to winning matters.
And you want to look around and you just want to see it.
One of my great moments is a few years ago, the Steelers, they started off like 0-4.
And Mike Tomlin, they are losing this fourth game.
And it was really bad.
And I've never felt as much as I love Mike Tomlin, much as I love Mike Tomlin, I never loved him more than I love this moment because what he did personified what we were alluding to about Jordan, what I just brought up, et cetera.
Mike Tomlin, people were coming off the field in the fourth quarter, and Mike Tomlin was like, he literally would step in front of each player as they were walking off the field to look into their eyes.
He didn't say a word to them.
He was just looking at them.
He wanted to see who was here, who's still in it, who's still ready to fight, because he knew how easy it would be to quit.
And to me, that's how I look at stuff.
When I'm at ESPN and stuff like that, I didn't ask to be the executive producer.
You know, they made me the executive producer for a reason because I'm looking at them.
I'll leave you alone.
But when I see our ratings, when I look at a show and it's not up to my standard, I'm like, what the hell was that?
What happened?
And all of a sudden, we're going to have a phone call.
We're going to have a meeting.
And suddenly, I'm going to make people uncomfortable.
And I'm not going to give a damn about it because I'm trying to win.
So if you're a boss and you have somebody that's a subordinate, what do you want to see?
You want to see not somebody that mirrors you in terms of your personality or whatever, but you want to see somebody that you can look at and you know is as committed as you are to winning.
And that's what I believe in.
He's a stud.
Tomlin's a stud.
Yes.
To follow up on this, you said Barkley.
Easily.
And there's Isaiah.
No.
Wait a minute.
No woman.
Pippin.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Huge Isaiah guy.
You know this.
That was my guy.
Yes.
Who would be second and third on that list?
I would say, I would say Isaiah.
But if it were before the last dance, easily Pippin.
Yep.
But what's not, that's him saying before the last dance, before Pippin's book.
If it were before Pippin's book, I would say it would be Pippin and then Isaiah.
But since the book, because of what I told you about Pippin, but let me tell you this about Isaiah, who's a friend.
Isaiah, I was a high school reporter.
Isaiah gave me my first interview with a professional athlete.
He was playing for the Detroit Pistons.
I showed up at the garden as a high school reporter for the New York Daily News.
And Isaiah Thomas had a game that January and he saw this kid, you know, the snot-nosed kid from Hollis Queens there.
And, you know, I'm the only reporter there that wasn't covering the NBA.
I was a high school reporter.
And he stopped the interview and walked over to me like, what you need and gave me my first interview with a professional athlete.
What year is this?
This is 1993.
This is like peak.
This is like wow.
They're just tough in the world.
So he's about to retire soon.
But Isaiah, I love Isaiah.
I've known him for all of those years.
He's been an incredible supporter of mine, big brother in a lot of ways.
I love him.
But I remember I had to get on him because he was so furious at Jordan saying what he said about him in the last dance, called him an asshole.
And I said to him, so why do you care?
I said, Jordan is a bull.
You were a piston.
The Jordan rules and the things that y'all did to Jordan to make his life so hard prior to winning that championship, he'll never get over it.
Now, Jordan tells me personally, Isaiah Thomas is the second greatest point guard of all time behind Irving Magic Johnson.
He respects the hell out of him, but they're not fond of each other.
And Isaiah, you know, is a caring person.
He can kill, he's slice you up now.
He's from the speech of Chicago.
Make no mistake about him.
He'll kill you with a smile.
But he's a caring person.
And he really, really cared at the time that Jordan said that about him.
And I'm like, why?
He does not like you.
Don't like him.
And keep it at that.
Because Jordan, when he realized how Isaiah felt, he's like, look, man, Bill Lambert knows I think he was one.
So he don't care.
Neither do the rest of them.
What he cares so much for?
Stop.
But he got left off the dream team.
That's why.
Well, yes, but Jordan doesn't take the blame for that.
Whether he does or he doesn't.
Isaiah should have been on that dream team.
Without question.
100%.
Without question.
Thank you.
But by the way, bro, you don't walk off without shaking hands.
And the guy was the one that walked off the year before shaking your hand.
And then you think a driver like Michael is going to forget that?
I don't think he is.
Last question.
Isaiah and the Pistons made Jordan who he is.
I don't think anybody would argue that.
They toughened him up there.
He went to the gym during that season.
But last thing, Zion Williamson, you think anything's going to happen with him?
You think he's going to be like a superstar or you think he's going to keep getting in his own way?
He gets in his own way because he literally had a food issue.
But from what I'm being told, he's lost about 25 to 30.
He looks stealth.
And we're seeing the benefits of it.
47 points the other day.
So, well, he could do that anytime he wants to.
He's a man child.
But the thing about him is that, like it is for most of us, are you going to be addicted enough to success to allow that to be the emotion or the carrot that usurps all your other proclivities?
Are you going to be that committed?
Because if he's committed, New Orleans could win it all.
I don't disagree.
If he's not, they won't even get to the conference finals.
It's a very interesting team.
It's a very interesting team.
Very interesting.
It really is.
It really is.
By the way, what happens if they win?
Say they win.
I mean, what is the market going to react?
What's the market going to do?
Is it going to be like you got to go through Denver now?
You got to go through these guys.
I think it's similar to Denver.
Like, let's call it what it is.
I mean, parody is important.
It's good.
But winning in the big city matters.
Winning in New York matters.
Winning in L.A. matters.
Winning in Chicago matters.
And New Orleans, in terms of being one of the big cities, is considered a smaller market, obviously.
And so, again, Denver's the champions.
We see them on TV.
We know how great Jokic is.
We know how great Jamal Murray can be.
But do you talk about them the way you talk about L.A.?
I'm not a fan of the beach in Denver.
It's just never, they never did anything.
There we go.
There we go.
Totally.
It's never done anything to me.
How about your Knicks?
What's he over under and when they win a championship?
I don't know, but I'll tell you this.
New York Knicks, had they not suffered their injuries this year, I thought they would be in the conference finals.
I thought they would be the team that Boston would have.
After they trained after R.J. Barrett?
After OG on Nenobi, with Mitchell Robinson, Julius Randle, if he doesn't get hurt, I believe this Knicks team, the way they were defending and playing, I think the Knicks go to the conference finals against Boston.
But because of those injuries and how derailed they've been because of it, even though they're still in the fight at top four seed, I think that Julius Randall, I don't know if he'll ever be healthy.
I think that that's something we've got to take into consideration, and that's what you do.
You think they beat Milwaukee?
To get to the conference finals.
This is a Milwaukee team if the New York Knicks had all their horses totally healthy.
I think this Milwaukee team.
Defensively.
That's what's off.
What about these guys?
By the way, they gave up Drew.
Because Drew Holiday was such a good defender.
We talk about Drew Holiday, right?
What about Grayson Allen?
Do you realize that Phoenix Grayson Allen is the number one three-point shooter in the NBA?
Really?
This brother is doing some big things.
Oh, shit.
That's right.
They give him a game.
That's a Dookie.
Both of them are gone.
Wow.
Both of them are gone.
And by the way, he's an annoying opponent.
That's right.
He's an annoying opponent.
He's one of those guys that gets under your skin.
Like, remember that Delavadeva?
What was the guy who was a little bit of a dude?
Delavido Doba.
He works here, PBD, Deli.
No, no, but Delavadova.
Delavidova.
Very annoying opponent, right?
He would get under your skin.
Was he with the Cleveland kids?
Was he dealing with LeBron when they lost the first time to Steph Curry and those boys?
And J.R. Smith went on social media and said that Delavidova had to be hospitalized.
You know, they had to give him oxygen just because he was chasing Steph Curry.
Love that.
Love that.
That's who Deli is named after here.
I love it.
Gang, this was Stephen A. Appreciate you for coming out.
Thank you.
Rob, can we put the link to his book up, please, so everybody can see it as well with the video?
Just go to the Amazon and put his link so people can see it.
Straight shooter on Amazon.
New York Times, bestseller, ordered a book at the same time.
His channel, his YouTube channel, and podcast, Stephen A. Stephen A. Smith show.
