Patrick Bet-David, Adam Sosnick, Tom Ellsworth, and Vincent Oshana are joined by Chris Cuomo as they discuss why Trump may have Chris' vote in the 2024 Presidential Election, if Chris has been a target of the Deep State, and the revolution in Argentina following the election of Javier Milei!
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author of the #1 Wall Street Journal Bestseller “Your Next Five Moves” (Simon & Schuster) and a father of 2 boys and 2 girls. He currently resides in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida.
Guys, you know, years ago, I don't know what it was, years, years ago.
This guy, what's his name?
Justin Timberlake did a song dedicated to a guy that happens to be the guest today.
It's called Bring Sexy Back.
So he just brought this room.
Wow, I did not bring it on the podcast.
You got to have it to bring it back.
There we go.
Bring it back.
It's good to see.
So you have not been in this room, though.
We did a last time in the other place.
I just got a tour of the emerging empire here.
And let me tell you, this is an impressive situation you have going.
I don't think people really appreciate how much you guys have going in the kitchen.
Oh, there's a situation in there.
There's a situation.
I mean, there is a lot going on with Value Attainment.
Very, very impressive.
I appreciate that.
And you are one of my favorite content creators.
I appreciate it.
And not just because you smell like I want to eat you right now.
I appreciate it.
You just saw one that's going to come out today, but you saw the trans, I am trans everything.
Yes.
I appreciate that.
Thank you.
That's your favorite one?
And the gift is, obviously, I mean, you know this, you know, you're in the comic.
Timing.
The timing is so 100%.
Good for you.
Thank you, bro.
I appreciate it.
Chris, what do you got?
Come on.
I want all this is not the only thing.
I want all you guys.
I want all the smoke.
Lots of stuff to go through.
I think the first thing I probably want to get into, let me just give you the stories so the audience knows, and then maybe we'll go into the sponsors, and then we'll do some of the stories.
Charlie Munger, may he rest in peace, 99, legend.
You know, he's, if you've never read the book, The Charlie Munger's Almanac Poor, Charlie's Almanac, it's a must-read on any library office.
You have to read it.
The wisdom he shares, then they interview his kids.
Phenomenal guy.
May he rest in peace.
A few stories here.
So one, Adams, Eric Adams, plays down talk of a Cuomo mayoral run.
There's this guy named Andrew, Cuomo, that may run, and he's kind of talking shit a little bit.
So we'll talk about him here in a minute.
President Biden, New York City mayor.
You just say my brother's talking shit.
Your brother has a way of talking about that.
I just say that.
Yeah, I did what you said.
I like the shit.
I like the way you're doing.
I just wanted to make sure my money.
I did say that.
I'm glad you qualified it.
I want to remember why.
Remember why.
New York City, Eric Adams, hasn't spoken to the president in a year as New Year migrant crisis worsens.
I think those two should probably talk.
Over 2,500 cops have quit the job in the Blue City just this year.
We'll talk about that.
Rona McDaniel, Ronna McDaniel brushes off donor concerns.
There's nothing unusual about this.
Koch Network endorses Nikki Haley for president as it looks to stop Trump.
Romney says most Democrats would be an upgrade from Trump.
I definitely want to talk about that guy.
Justin Trudeau, sweetheart of a guy, blames MAGA for turning Canadians against Ukraine.
Okay, Justin.
Trump hints at expanded role for the military within the U.S.
A legacy law gives him few guardrails.
De Niro says Apple Gotham Awards cut his anti-Trump speech.
How dare they do that?
Okay, this is a USA Today story.
And then China plans to mass produce humanoid robots in two years.
Here's how experts think the tech will change the world by 2035.
China athletes, as young as seven years old in the military, training to create an iron army, seven years old.
Diddy temporarily steps down as chairman of Revolt after being sued.
Americans under 30 don't trust religion or anything else.
Voters see American Dream Fading, a new poll says.
Maverick owner Mark Cuban sells majority stake to billionaire Miriam Adelson will retain control of team.
Now, here's one of the clips I do want to show before we get into it.
Rob, can you pull up this clip by his brother, your brother?
I love what he says here.
This was a couple weeks ago.
And a couple weeks, was it three weeks ago?
And it's such common sense when this was happening.
And I don't know if blue states understand this concept.
I don't know if Newsom understands this concept.
I don't know if Illinois understands this concept.
I don't know if New York understands this concept.
But I want to get your insight and feedback on what your brother said here three weeks ago.
Go ahead and play this.
People are more mobile.
They will leave.
How do we know that?
Because they are leaving.
They have left.
The people who are the most mobile are the people with wealth.
And we have seen wealthy New Yorkers leave.
The problem is the wealthy New Yorkers are the New Yorkers who pay the taxes.
Overwhelmingly, when you look at where the revenue comes from in New York, it is paid by wealthy New Yorkers.
Over 90% of the revenue comes from wealthy New Yorkers.
So when the wealth leaves, it has a dramatic economic impact.
And this is how cities historically have gotten into trouble.
You lose the wealth, you lose the revenue, you have less revenue to provide services.
Quality of life deteriorates because there are fewer services, more people leave, right?
That's the down spiral.
100%.
Okay, so when you hear this, and then, you know, I'm from California, okay?
So a lot of people left California.
They went to Texas.
Some of them leave to Nevada.
They don't necessarily come to Florida.
I went to Texas, then came here.
New York comes to Florida or they go to Nashville.
Why do you think blue states don't understand this basic logical argument that your brother just made?
Why do you think blue states don't understand it?
Why do you think?
No, I'm asking, why do you think?
I don't know that they don't understand it.
You think they understand it.
Well, I don't know how to apportion understanding.
Like, do you mean like the governors in blue states don't seem to talk the way Andrew is?
No, no, no.
Why do blue states not understand that you pushing your business owners out hurts the economy, costs you jobs, and they're going to go somewhere else?
It's kind of like this.
If you got somebody that's a hard worker working for a company, right?
They show up early, they leave late, they go above and beyond.
If they give you a deadline, they hit it.
They hit their bonuses.
They hit everything.
They got great attitudes, team players working in every possible way.
They're great.
You don't think there's 100 other people that would love to hire this guy to this girl to go to their company?
Why would you not want to keep that person in your state?
Blue states, the last three years, have lost a lot of these types of people.
Do they know it when they're doing this?
Is it knowingly?
You know, what's their process when they're because your brother, again, your brother's a Democrat, right?
And he's saying this as a guy that's a two-term governor himself.
Well, two things.
One, it shows you why labels are very limiting, right?
Andrew's a Democrat.
Well, what does that mean?
It only means what you hear coming out of him and what he does, right?
Andrew is different than most people in politics in one way that should really matter to you, okay?
He is all about doing, okay?
What politicians are known for?
Andrew can do, but it is not his passion.
Patrick Bet David, nice to meet you.
Whatever you need.
I'll take care of that.
And what is your concern?
Yes, I share it.
And here's why.
And the yep, yep, yep.
Where in your head, you're saying, all right, the discount effect of what this guy is saying to what he's going to do is probably somewhere around 70, 80%.
Andrew is the opposite of that.
Andrew is, yeah, yeah, yeah, I get it.
I can fix it.
I can fix.
I'll be straight about it.
Here's why.
I'm going to break a lot of furniture.
I'm going to make a lot of enemies because we're not in the business of doing.
That's the way to look at it.
You would never let those people, these types of entities, this type of revenue base leave.
Why?
Because you're an entrepreneur, because you see the value.
But you're also not in the game.
What I would see is not, wow, what incredible ignorance this is, that these states, blue states, red states, whatever you want to look at, act this way.
I think the lens has to be, you got to think the way they think, which is not my bottom line, which is not my results.
It's advantage.
And what gives the people in power the best ability to say whoever you want to replace them with is worse.
It's the opposite of your life model.
You don't build value attainment by saying, well, you should come and do business with us because you know the other guys, PWC, they're worse.
Nobody does that.
Politics, they do.
You want to run against Andrew.
You don't say, I have better ideas.
You say his are worse.
He's dangerous.
He's bad.
That's what politics is.
And that's how you get these dynamics that don't make sense to a businessman.
Fair.
So I'm not.
You're one of the things that you're not in the game.
You're strong, right?
Because you don't even know half of what I said.
You're just smell.
Amazing.
Thank you.
I want you to know.
So I like Andrew, okay?
I like Andrew.
I like Andrew.
But that's good.
I think you love Andrew.
I don't yet know Andrew.
I just like Andrew.
But for me, when I see that, I'm like, okay, so why did they have to get rid of him?
Why did they pick on him?
Because the feeling I get with an Andrew is Andrew's not the type of guy the Democratic Party to me is a bit more unified and darker than the Republican Party.
My understanding, push back as much as you want.
I enjoy this.
So my understanding is a guy like Andrew behind closed doors, if a Schumer or a Pelosi or even an Obama comes in and says, hey, you got to step aside.
You got to do this.
You got to have your messaging this.
You got to do that.
You got to be a part of the team.
You got to take one for the team.
I don't know if he's that guy.
Okay.
I just don't know if he's that guy.
I think to him, he goes down to whatever your father taught you guys, those values.
Like, dude, it's my father over you, bro.
Who are you to tell me to do this shit?
My old loyalty is to my last day, my family, my lineage, my heritage, it's not to you, right?
That's my understanding of how his wiring is.
So that means a guy like your brother, the establishment Democrat's going to hate.
They're not going to like him.
They're not going to sit there and say, let's work with this guy.
And by the way, even Mayor Adams, when he won, and, oh, he's going to be this, a former cop, da-da-da-da.
And then all of a sudden he's making a couple of good arguments.
Hey, sexual assault from 1993 and da-da-da-da.
Oh, right after he disagreed with, you want to drop this?
How come you didn't drop it all?
You mean to tell me you didn't know about this?
Well, no, it's because the New York laws changed.
All I'm saying is there's two arguments you made.
I'll bring one of them back afterwards.
But the one area is, is there a pattern of the establishment Democrat not liking guys like your brother or Mayor Adams?
I think in the party system, you know, you can debate.
You talk to a bunch of Democrats, they'll say the GOP is cohesive.
They're a pack animal.
Trump has cemented that ideology, that mentality, whereas the Democrats are like herding a bunch of cats and they don't galvanize.
That's why you don't see media outlets that are as left-dedicated as you see on the right in these cottage industries because they're not as cohesive a group.
But that's neither here nor there.
In the party politics game, okay?
There is a weird, there's a paradox at play, okay?
Which is the idea of stronger Robert Downey Jr. probably wants to say hello to you.
Hold on.
Let's get him on.
He's the best.
I got to tell him a tradition he needs to know.
I'm in a bank vault right now.
But look, we're shooting the podcast.
Look who it is.
Robert, can I tell you something I didn't tell you last time?
It actually is Robert Downey Jr. on the phone.
Robert, how you doing?
Hang on.
Let me take you off the bottom.
Just give him the volume.
Never had a better day?
Come on.
Sun's barely up, and I'm on the Morgan Gaming.
You're freaking amazing.
Robert, I got to tell you, do you know what our tradition is?
Every Christmas when we're with the family, you know what movie we watch every Christmas?
Watch out, I'll kill you.
The only movie in my life that I watched back to back on a flight back from Europe was The Judge.
It's the only movie I've ever watched back to back in my life only.
And every Christmas with the family, I swear to God, every Christmas with the family, we sit there and we watch the judge.
Tom, you were there.
We watched the judge together.
Every Christmas, we sit down and we watch that.
What a freaking amazing movie, man.
You're one of a kind.
We love you.
Big fans of your work, brother.
Thank you.
Happy holidays to everyone.
And I love the synergy that happens when your guys' different viewpoints come together.
I feel like I get the whole picture.
So God bless you for taking the lead in doing that.
God bless you, Mr. Cuomo.
You know, we're brothers.
I love you, brother.
I'll call you right after this.
Please.
All right.
Thanks, Robert.
Take care.
Did the Iron Man just call?
Yeah.
This is what happens when Chris Cromo shows up.
Robert Downey Jr. just pops off.
Let me tell you something.
That guy is not only, the easy part is he is a defining actor of the generation, right?
I mean, his ability to do different things.
His personal story, his commitment to change, the friend that he has been to me has never asked me for a thing.
He is one of the most special people you could be lucky enough to have in your life.
And he's one of those people where you'll never know it.
He's never going to celebrate himself.
He's not one of those celebrities where, you know, he has like these, you know, these kind of carnivals around him.
So you know how great he is.
I talk to him every chance I get.
He's a straight up guy.
How did you guys become so close?
COVID.
During during COVID, he like didn't believe that I could be in this cycle of being this sick and doing TV and then like flop sweating for the next 11 hours.
So he gets my number.
He's Robert Downey Jr.
He's going to get your number if you want your number, right?
So we text.
I said, oh, you know, big fan.
I had met him a couple of times years earlier.
And he said, you know, how's it going, brother?
I said, well, right now, pretty shitty, you know, because I got a hundred and something fever.
And he's like, can we FaceTime?
I said, sure.
So he FaceTimes me and I'm like sitting in the sauna trying to sweat because I would try to sweat as much as I could, take a really cold shower, you know, you know, the whole cycle of trying to stop the fever.
And we started talking about what matters in life.
And he's an extraordinary guy.
I have never met.
I haven't met a lot of people like him full stop in that business.
I've never met anyone like him.
The guy's depth is phenomenal.
He gives me the vibes of a guy that I'd love to have dinner with.
Just have conversations with him.
If you don't like him, there's something wrong with you.
I agree.
He's one of those.
He gives me that feeling.
If you don't like me, there's good reasons.
Him, there's something wrong with you.
You're very likable behind the scenes.
I've been talking about what.
You've been talking about Robert Downey Jr. for years.
Prior to even Cuomo bringing him up, you made us all watch the movie The Judge, but even prior to that.
Oh, I made you guys watch it to explain how emotional that movie was.
There's so many different scenes of it.
But let me go back to your brother, okay?
Let's not digress.
Let me go back to your brother.
So to me, the feeling I get from the Democratic establishment, they cannot stand people like your brother.
See, I think it's a party thing.
Now, look.
I'm not telling you anything you guys haven't known and read for a long time.
Andrew's not in the business of making friends when it comes to politics.
Why?
A little bit of it is what he saw in our father, who was all about the people who put him there, because he had only been rejected by the institution.
You know, Pop was not considered what I am, a privileged white male.
He was seen as an ethnic, and he was kept down.
He was an other.
He was poor.
He was new.
He was gap-toothed, Mercurial Mario, all these like little code words for being an Italian slash mafiosi type.
So that's Andrew's DNA, right?
But then within the system, they're never going to take care of an Andrew.
He's too powerful.
He's too dynamic.
He's too much of a threat.
That's the nature of party politics.
It's not unique to Democrats.
And you have to know how to play the game.
And the higher you get, obviously the more risk there is.
The idea, though, that I would push back on a little bit is they came at him.
Look, the game has rules, okay?
And on the Democratic side, an allegation is enough.
one okay you get chris stop it let's Listen, I'm telling you, they have rules.
That's their rule.
That's their rule.
Look at Al Franken.
You get, look, and they- Minnesota, you're saying?
Yeah, they can have their rules.
He's guilty until proven innocent.
That's how it works in the Democratic Party.
It seems about values.
It's about believing the people who make the accusation.
It's about having the right goal, which is equity, fairness.
But what happens if you go too far with it and you make it political?
We're watching it in real time.
But Andrew put himself in a position where he was vulnerable and they came after him.
Now, was there something about that that was partisan in nature?
Of course.
It's politics.
And is it painful for me?
100%.
You know, I don't like anything about what happened, but I understand it.
And, you know, the risk for Andrew is, because look, he's got public service in his bones.
Like, I would like for him so much to get into business with Pat.
And he's so smart.
He's so entrepreneurial.
He understands so many different things.
He has so much reach and contacts.
I would love him to live a good, easier life where he's making money.
He's creating value for people.
Enough of having people try to find ways to bring you down 24-7, 365.
He disagrees.
He doesn't believe that that is a purpose-driven life for him personally.
Now, what that means, he's friends with Mayor Adams.
Mayor Adams reached out to him when a lot of other guys didn't.
Andrew is not going around trying to become mayor of New York City.
If something happens to the mayor, well, then things change.
But that's not a fair analysis.
You know what I mean?
The New York Post says Andrew Cuomo wants to run for, you know, they might as well say he's got three heads.
They got as good a chance of being right.
Chris, do you believe in the, this is random, but you believe in the deep state?
Not the way you guys do.
I believe that bureaucracies are dangerous and entrenched power without accountability gets dangerous.
I don't see the dynamics the way other people do.
Like, I don't believe the DOJ is operating on a set of political guidelines that are given by anybody in any current moment.
And look, Eric Adams is proof of that.
They come up to the guy at a public event and ask for his phones.
You better have something on that guy if you're going to do that to him.
And I know the probable cause standard for a warrant, but there's a way to do the job.
You come up to a guy who's a mayor of New York City at a public event and say, we want your devices.
You don't think that everybody's going to see it?
You're doing it because everybody's going to see it.
So they better have something and they better have something soon, especially where we are in our culture right now, where everybody is dubious about whether or not the administration of justice is on the level.
And I think they, but it does show you that it's not just right-left.
So he's a Democrat.
Here's the thing on what you're saying with the left.
Just the first 30 seconds.
You know what?
This one's two minutes.
It's the part when he says you give them an inch.
It's the one-minute video.
Because this is, you can press play and we'll find it with this one.
This is the new leader of Argentina.
Yeah.
Amazing hair, by the way.
Ocean mesidas.
No.
But it is a little bit of a thing.
That is the point.
Porque le das un milímetro y lo tomas para destrozarte.
Es decir, usa...
O sea, vos no podés negociar con el zurdo.
No se negocia.
No se negocia.
Con esa mierda no se negocia porque te van a llevar...
Puesto.
Si tier de núngo el piador que quara prom para salad y avo sí es de esos.
Mende se pone el el pañolito verde y grita todo de tipo contrad neoliberalismo.
Cultan.
Mendeneso sé ha cida repente aya yen que a co so other a periodista con loso reperíta.
E si da todos los esos.
Los culta, two sebaración de la cultad.
Ahora, si vo se está de lotrolado, avos te van estropía.
There you go.
Tevan navatar, teban ador con lo que sea.
No les importantarinar te la vía porque porque no pensá como eso.
Y sabe que lo bueno de todo esto.
Hay algo bueno two esto.
Porque como eró de sumano, como todo nos podemos sequi vocar, seque no sobía, no solíana cer mejores.
Y como estobos sindo tam mejores coe zos, como lo estamos a platando la vataza cultural.
Los estamos pasando de arriba, porque no no solo leganamos se lo prodúbo.
At this point, so I, by the way, this isn't just America.
The left is like that worldwide.
It's not anything new.
And by the way, my mic got lost.
I don't know if you guys can hear me or not.
Okay, as long as you can.
I can't hear myself.
Words are echoing in my head.
Okay, good.
So, and by the way, you know, when I read that and I hear that, I visualize a meeting behind closed doors.
You know, I'm not asking you to tell you there was a meeting.
I visualize there being a meeting behind closed door where your brother said F off.
And then they said, oh, really?
Okay, mother, you know, we're going to show you who you're dealing with here and we're going to come after you.
And they went from one minute wanting him to be president.
Six months later, they're destroying him, tarnishing him.
I'm sorry.
I don't know.
You have to be careful about who the they is.
The left establishment.
Andrew, I see, I don't believe in the monolithic nature of it.
Within New York, which is where Andrew is operating, which has its own political machinery, especially on the Democrat side, right?
It's prohibitively Democrat.
It depends where you are.
You know, very interestingly, even Andrew, who set all these records for winning elections, 62 counties in New York, he doesn't win all the counties.
He wins the population centers.
Like most of the states, even blue states, there is a lot of red within the blue.
It's just within the population centers, it's all blue.
But by county, by county, and that's what we see in the country, place by place, you have a lot of people who are on the right.
It's just not in the big population centers.
Within New York, Andrew was the big dog, okay?
And he was there for a target.
But I don't think it's as simple.
And look, I'm his brother.
I'd love it to be exactly what you're saying, but I don't think it is.
He put himself into a position where he was vulnerable.
Was that position orchestrated?
Was it amplified?
Was it used to hurt him?
Yes, yes, and yes.
But the situation still existed.
And if he decides to run again, he's going to have to figure out where he fits in that game because you've got to have a team.
You cannot run.
Who's going to back him up?
I don't know.
But you can't run as somebody outside.
Like this Bobby Kennedy stuff, I believe Bobby Kennedy Jr., you know, people are selling an idea of what's possible in the American electorate that I've never seen manifested.
It'd be nice if somebody could just come in with populist sentiment and break through the machinery.
I don't even know how he's going to get in a ballot on all the states because of this, the party machinery.
You got to look at the parties, Patrick, and you got to be careful about wanting to see them as being so different.
I could make the same argument as the head of Argentina about the far right.
And I think one of our problems is you look at what's happening with this pro-Palestine movement on the far left.
And then you have reaction formation on the far right where they come up with a bill to kick Palestinians out of the country.
Why?
How did that happen?
Because everything has to be binary.
And once the left goes too far in a direction, you know the right is going to do something.
Why?
Because it's all about competitive advantage between the two of them.
And as long as we have that system, we'll never get the way you live your life.
We'll never get to the models of efficiencies, output, values, expect, you'll never get to it.
Because as long as it's either me or him, the guy who wins this is the one who makes the other one look worse.
If he and I are in a competition that's not quantitative, right?
It's a running race, it's a push-up, whatever it is.
What is my better chance of getting your preference?
Here's why you should like me.
I want to do this, this, and this.
What do you think is easier?
Me saying that or me saying, did you hear what he did to that puppy?
Did you hear what he did to that puppy?
Did you see when his mother was trying to enter traffic and he like walked behind her?
She could have gotten hit by a car.
All of a sudden, you're like, yeah, the hell's wrong with this guy?
That's what decides our elections.
And this guy, as a leader, is doing something that's very effective.
He's giving you someone to fear.
He's giving you someone to blame for what you don't like.
And he's making it us and them.
This is the classic model of democracy.
But he's right.
To you, he's right.
No, no, but he is right, though.
To you, he's right.
They can say the same thing about the far right.
Brother, if you say to me, it's right.
No, it's called data.
150% inflation, 80% inflation.
It's not to me it's right.
You know, like that concept where the left and the right do, and they say, to you, it's right.
To you, it's right.
I want to know what is right.
I go based on results.
So when.
But you want to do inflation, then do it.
You understand the economics very well.
You dumped a bunch of money into the system.
Yeah.
Right.
Not just the quantitative easing, one, two, and three, but then everything during the pandemic, inflation was on its way and you turbocharged it and it was going to happen.
Now, to blame it on Biden and this word Bidenomics, I don't even know what it means, or to even just blame it on Trump.
It was coming and you fed it.
That's not a right-left problem.
That's a plus-minus problem.
But inflation in Argentina is skyrocketed.
It's not even comparable.
The problem in Argentina is a kleptocracy.
It's about corruption.
All right.
Now, if he wants to come in and say, I'm not going to, we're not going to have corruption anymore.
And let's look at the people he puts around him.
Let's look at the deals that the government does.
And if he lives to that, then great.
And hopefully the people reward him for that.
But that's what it is.
It's not just that the left loves inflation and the right loves fiscal conservatism.
Look what happened during the Trump administration.
They spent like crazy.
They had tax cuts that didn't pay for themselves.
Why?
Because you spend the money when you're in power.
Why?
Because that's how you stay in power.
And then when you're the out party, you say the other side spends too much because it's always about showing the other side is worse.
It's the problem with binary.
And I get it that it seems like it's a defense of the left.
Why would I be defending the left after what I've seen in my own family?
Why?
If I'm saying it, it's because I mean it.
And I'll tell you what, I say all the time, all I want from people in elections, leave the parties.
I know it's going to screw you in primaries.
I know, I know.
That has to change, but that won't change until this changes.
You have to leave the parties.
Now, people will crush me, especially the Democrats.
How can you draw this false equivalency?
This is so dangerous.
It's always been dangerous.
Somebody is always dangerous.
I've grown up in this business.
My father was a danger.
Can't have an angry ethnic in there who knows what kind of retribution he wants.
You know, what is this?
It's always been that the other side's dangerous.
Why?
It's a cheap way of saying, I can't make the case that I'm better.
That's where danger comes from.
That's where beware comes from.
And it is the fruit of the poisonous tree of a two-party system.
Leave the parties the way George Washington told us to, the way James Monroe, the way Teddy Roosevelt, FDR, leave the parties.
Get rid of them.
Be a nation.
Fight it out.
Let the best ideas win.
Get away from the factions.
That is the only salvation for us, Pat.
You'll never get there with two teams.
I want to sit there and believe you and agree with you, but it's very hard because when you're like, you were believing because, but, By the way, before we get into that, Rob, why don't we go to our sponsor real quick?
We'll come back to this.
Go for it.
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Okay, so I want to believe you.
I want to sit there and say, okay.
Well, look at it this way.
Let's say I'm wrong.
That's fine.
Why would I be lying?
Let's play on that.
I don't think it's lying.
I don't say lying.
Is it delusion?
No, no.
I think it's loyalty.
I think it's...
I have no loyalty to a political party.
Zero.
But to me, like you almost have to because of your father, because your father was a great man and he was a great father.
No, no, no, they were mad at him when he left because of what he did with the campaign money and that he didn't want to just dump it back into the state party, that he wanted to make choices about where that campaign fund could go.
He was an outsider.
He was an insurgent.
He was rejected.
He lost election after election after election.
We are not a party family.
That is not, this is not that case.
You have a bit of a naivete in you or you're like a little naivety.
Like, are you a little naive or I have lived this the way you have lived hairstyling.
Do you understand?
I have been living in this my whole life.
There's no, I mean, you got a nice quaff.
Let's be honest.
But there is no chance that I am not seeing it for what it is.
I just think it's actually a step beyond that, which is people are not allowed to process it this way.
You have to see one side as worse and you have to pick a side.
And that is the game.
And we're just caught in it.
I work in it, but I see it.
I see it.
You want to talk about what happens on the right, what happens on the left?
I see it as the code in the matrix about who's playing to advantage right now.
You don't think this guy's singing from the Trump songbook for a reason?
Now, I think he does it in a more extreme and outrageous fashion.
Maybe it's going to work for me.
Me lay.
I don't know.
But we know the populist outrage handbook.
You know, before Trump, it was Tom Tan Crato and all those guys on the GOP's right culture fringe.
We know the book.
You're going to see it on the left.
Why?
It works.
The only thing that hasn't changed yet, look, here, proof of premise.
The population that loves Trump right now were Democrats a generation ago.
A Republican, when I was growing up, always looked like that.
Always dressed like that.
Suit and tie.
Now, they're all Democrats.
The wealthiest people are all Democrats.
The wealthiest people used to be the Republicans.
And the workers, the unions, the emerging class, the ugly masses, they were the Democrats.
Now it's flipped.
Why?
Outrage.
The outrage pendulum swung.
And now you have it the other way, where you have white people, not just white, but a lot of white in a country that's over half white, feeling that culturally they're being marginalized and for bad reason, not for the reasons of diversity and shared strength, but to marginalize them.
I get messages all the time.
You notice how there are fewer white people in commercials now?
Now, the answer is no.
I don't measure that kind of thing, but this person is.
And why?
Because they see it as proof of this.
People saying, I don't think my kid can get into school anymore.
And someone can argue it, oh, but by percentage, they're wrong.
Perception is reality in politics.
People are afraid.
They feel that things can't be trusted, can't be managed, and are not in their favor, and it's on purpose.
That's what swung.
And I don't know how the Democrats get it back, especially with President Biden not being able to muscularly make a case that's any better than what I'm saying right now.
But that's the difference.
The reason former President Trump has a shot, the reason Nikki Haley has a shot, is that if you tap into grievance in a culture that is addicted to a grievance cycle, I mean, even the Middle East, you know, these people are just jumping into this issue now with none of the cultural understanding that you have or the research or the history of the dynamic.
They're just jumping in.
And you got all these people on the far left who have this affinity with oppression that they don't even own.
They don't even live.
They haven't even visited.
But it's so real for them.
I don't know what the left is going to do with that.
I don't know how Biden or anybody who runs can deal with that.
You know, they thought BLM was a problem.
BLM had a contextual relevance in a social dynamic that's going on here right now.
You now have an aspect of your party and a significant aspect saying, terrorism, terrorism, Hamas, terrorists.
Really?
We've never heard that in America before.
Never.
Never.
The only minority that's allowed to be discriminated against in America is Jewish people.
Where did this come from?
Why is it manifesting on the left?
So many Democrats are left.
Grievance.
It's about the pendulum of grievance.
And that is the beginning of the swing back of the grievance pendulum.
Why?
Why would it be swinging back?
The problems still exist.
Maybe they're even worse.
Maybe they're more entrenched.
Because the right has been increasing its power.
So what happens?
When you increase the power, you lose the outrage because you're now, you had a term with Trump.
You have Republicans in power now.
Now you have the Speaker of the House.
The pendulum starts to swing because you can't really be pissed off about what they are doing to you when you are the they.
And now the pendulum starts to swing.
We see it with this issue.
We'll see it with whatever happens next, Patrick.
Whatever happens next, you're going to see this extreme split where we will be taken hostage by the fringes again.
And your audience, which is why I love coming and being with you guys, your audience are looking at it like, who are these people?
Where is this coming from?
What is this country?
These people are crazy.
This is all crazy.
And they're the majority.
And that is the hope.
That is the salvation.
That's why I'm such a big fan of yours, is that I believe that you are speaking to and for and with the regular people.
They got different opinions.
They don't agree with everything that you say or what each other says.
That's okay.
That's good.
We don't want groupthink.
But they're looking at what's happening at the people in power and they don't recognize them.
They don't recognize the dialogue.
They don't recognize the game.
They just don't know how to get out of it.
So it makes me think about three things.
One, it makes me think about, you know, the psychological marketing, storytelling, connecting, campaign, better story, better.
Okay, fine.
It used to be.
Now it's making the other guy seem dangerous.
James Carville said on my show yesterday something I let him get away with.
It's been bothering me for about 24 hours.
That and my right knee.
He's talking about Bobby Kennedy Jr. and why Bobby Kennedy Jr. popped in the polls, these recent Harvard Curry polls.
And he says, well, people don't even know him yet.
They don't know anything about him.
They just like him because of his name.
We haven't seen his health records, his mental health records.
And I just kind of let it go.
And I was thinking to myself, the fuck was that that he just said?
And then it registered, but he had moved on.
I had to catch up with the conversation.
Oh, he's taking Bobby Dennis.
This is his way of undercutting Bobby Kennedy.
Why would you look at a guy who takes his shirt off?
He looks like you.
What do I need to see his health records for?
You know what I mean?
Clearly, the dude's healthy.
Wait, mental health record.
Oh, you're talking about his history of addiction.
And you are putting that out there for people.
That's the game.
But that's what I say to you.
I think the gamesmanship, the marketing, that, whoever's got the better on that side, power to them.
But the other thing, then there is the actual policies, okay?
Actual policies that produce results that makes a nation a great nation.
Who has the better policies?
That's the second one.
And then the third one.
The sound you're going to hear is me popping.
Let's do it.
Go for it.
And the third one.
I don't want any caffeine.
Is there caffeine in?
No, zero caffeine.
I don't want any sugar.
Is there any sugar in here?
No, no sugar.
Nope.
No sugars.
Now, I saw someone drink this and they dropped dead.
No, no.
Is that something that holds me?
There's an interview coming up that Vinny did with Hillary.
We'll drop it.
And then the third one to me is more about who has more control of bigger institutions to brainwash and inject their beliefs on people.
There is no way the left has a monopoly.
I wouldn't say brainwash.
I would say influence.
And it's not semantics.
What's the difference?
Here's the difference.
One is that this is A toxic dynamic that you are an unwilling participant in, that you don't even know that you've been duped.
The other one is who's in power and what they want, and how that is reflected in the composition and the execution of the agencies, right?
And that's real, okay?
You will never convince me that the FBI is a lefty organization.
You don't?
You really don't think that?
I've been working with them.
You know, until Trump, the media was in the business of attacking the FBI with the we can neither confirm nor deny and everything takes forever and they never close a case and they never tell you anything.
And we would work against them.
Why?
Because that's the job of the media is to test power.
Now, because of Trump attacking institutions, he like put us in a position where we had to like defend these institutions, which was perverse and uncomfortable, but clever.
Good move by him, as was personalizing his critic base.
Very smart for him to personalize the media because nobody in the media wants to take on a president of the United States, you know, maybe for a moment, just to get some shine and pretend that you're something.
Jim Acosta.
Jim Acosta started it.
He was a fake news.
But I mean, look, you can see him, Megan Kelly.
I mean, you know, you get a moment there.
Dan Rather got it way back in the day.
But let me tell you, long-term, bad thing, because Trump's going to have a lot more supporters than you ever will in the media.
Anyway, you see that that is a very smart thing to do.
The institution itself, the FBI, you're never going to convince me.
Guy for guy, they tend to break center right, but I don't care.
I don't think it influences their job.
What I'm saying is not brainwash, but that when you're in power, you get the poll, especially on the congressional side.
We spent years of people on the right not being wrong when they said, God damn, you go after Trump for everything, every single thing these guys can get on and they're doing.
It's like, wow.
And now you do the same thing when you get in.
Why?
Because it works.
And that's the dynamic of the game.
So, Chris, and let's just say looking from the outside, if you weren't even from here and you saw just from the history of the FBI from way back when to just Russia collusion, okay, we were all duped.
Hillary went, you know, pay for the dossier, Comey, all these people.
And now with Christopher Wray, it's like they have a history of just lying.
And then when you ask, like, for instance, the January 6th, I forgot which senator congressman just questioned Christopher Wray again.
And he goes, can you please tell us how many confidential human sources were dressed as Trump supporters that were inside the Capitol, inside the Capitol, before the doors were open?
Can you please tell us?
And he goes, I have to be careful with what I say.
The answer should have been no.
But they keep playing this game of we can't say because there's an investigation.
We can't say this.
For me, Chris, I don't see how you can say that you don't see that especially the FBI is corrupted and they're leaning a certain way.
Look at what they're doing, going after all the January 6th people at their houses.
They're going after mothers.
They're going after, to the degree that they go after, okay?
That's where we get into your territory, but where you can be pissed off about it or see it as overreach.
You break into the U.S. Capitol.
There is absolutely no proof that it was an orchestrated event by confidential informants.
This happened.
Do I think it was an insurrection?
No.
By definition, it was not an insurrection and it was not an act of terror, but it was a really ugly reflection of where we are.
And I can get that people are going to be prosecuted for it.
The degree of that prosecution and the punishment, you can argue that part.
But your main point, Christopher Wray is a lifelong Republican, as is Bob Mueller.
When Trump put Ray in, he loved his ass.
The idea that he then all of a sudden transformed into this Manchurian candidate who is there to undercut the right is nonsense.
Now, does he give double speak and deal with things that he should answer straight and doesn't?
And does that fuel your misgivings?
Yes, yes, and yes.
So I'm with you.
I'm with you.
Do I believe January 6th was a setup?
Fuck no, I don't believe it was a setup.
I also don't believe it was an insurrection.
I believe it was exaggerated in terms of why it happened and what actually happened because people were scared and they could play to advantage.
The same way happened with the BLM riots, right?
I'm one of the tools of this.
Chris Cuomo said, where in the Constitution does it say that protests are supposed to be peaceful?
Right in the first line of the First Amendment.
Obviously, I know that.
What was I saying?
It's that when people were saying, who are all these black people and their allies shouting at the cops?
Go home.
I was making the point, hey, look, this is protest.
Protest isn't going to be nice.
People are going to be saying things that are angry and hostile.
They're outraged.
We need this in a democracy.
It's upsetting, but we need it.
I wasn't saying that you're not allowed to peacefully assemble.
Maybe I'm a shitty lawyer, but I know what the First Amendment says.
But why would people twist my point?
That's the game.
Why would people twist what Ray says or doesn't say?
That's the game.
And I just don't know where it gets us.
And I don't want to sit on it just really fast.
With January 6th, I don't want to be the dead horse.
But then what do you say, Chris, when the ex-chief of police, Stephen Son, said, by the way, this guy is the most trusted guy.
You can't just all of a sudden pelosi on them, try to make him look like he was full of shit.
That guy has top secret clerics.
He take him at his word.
He's a G, right, Chris?
He said they had warnings that people were going to be violent.
There was threats to life.
So to not give him the resources that he wants.
It's a mistake.
Hold on, a mistake.
Why, though?
I want to go deeper to go why.
Why would you turn down his call for the National Guard?
Why did he have to wait?
It took 71 minutes for the National Guard to show up.
The New Jersey State Police showed up before the National Guard, which was four hours.
So that to me, with the FBI having people in there agitating like Ray Epps, because listen, Chris, say what you want.
Inciting a riot was Ray Epps 100%.
He was telling people to go in.
He started it.
He was there at the breach.
He got a misdemeanor.
Chris, meanwhile, the guy from the Proud Boys who was home got 20 years.
That's where people, that's the questioning that we don't get no answers.
You knew it was going to happen.
It looked like they turned their back.
They let it happen.
They went, hey, insurrection.
Insurrection.
This is a threat to democracy.
It's all bullshit and it's playing out, but there's people doing 20 years for not even being there.
That's where I draw that line of they knew what was going to happen and let it happen to make it look like it was bad.
Look, that's the truth.
How you feel about the sentence of the Proud Boy guy, you're free to feel that way.
It's certainly a very harsh sentence.
And him being there, not being there, obviously what he was convicted of is a planning role.
But when you fuck up, you create opportunity for people to decide why you fucked up and what the fuck up means.
Let's not forget that even in this point of transition, Trump was still the person who had populated all of the different agencies and places of power.
So it's not like everybody in there was set up to be against him.
There hadn't even been a transition yet.
But when you screw up and they did screw up, you create avenues of opportunity to define what it means.
And that's why it becomes fuel for your suspicion.
And I'm not saying you're wrong to be suspicious.
I don't agree that January 6th was anything than what we saw it as.
I also don't exaggerate its significance.
It was embarrassing.
But it's not an insurrection.
I don't want to see everybody go to jail for the rest of their lives.
I've never said anything different than that.
But the FBI being a tool of the left, I'm just, I'm not feeling it.
And that's where we disagree because I think that they're just from that.
That's fine, Chris.
I'm saying just the proof is in the pudding of what we're seeing when they were when they when they like for instance with uh Comey with um Hillary's exoneration when he was when they changed when she was getting in trouble for the email.
The way I see it and it's not a left-right thing.
Okay, Comey, not a fan.
Me neither.
That guy should have never involved himself in that.
Oh, as a thing of conscience, I had to release this letter.
You're talking about the Hillary letter nine days before the election.
Screwed Hillary Clinton with that letter.
No doubt you can say, hey, truth hurts.
Okay, I'm all right with that.
But the mechanism, he ain't no lefty tool.
Okay.
So same head of the same agency.
What I'm saying is I don't see it that way, but I certainly can judge the actions of the people in there.
And you can judge Ray, but it's not because he's a Biden plant.
I mean, he's Trump's guy.
And Jim Comey thinks he was doing the right thing only by himself, evidently, because he screwed up the whole process.
And the investigation wound up not even yielding anything satisfying.
Back to the Russia probe.
What was the problem with the Russia probe?
Here's the problem with all of these things.
And I feel the same way about the Bidens.
And I feel the same way about the Trumps, okay?
And I take a lot of heat for this, that I'm disagreeing with the idea that nobody's above the law and all this.
First of all, I believe that nobody's above the law is true with a comma.
Why?
Prosecutorial discretion.
What we're talking about.
Why does this guy get 20 years and they bring this kind of case and the other guy doesn't?
Prosecutorial discretion.
The law is the law.
You apply it to the facts, but you make choices about who you go after and to what extent.
Prosecutorial discretion.
Trump, I don't believe it benefits.
What's the ultimate thing here?
Why do we have justice?
Fairness under law.
Why?
Social order, order.
That's why.
I don't think it helps the order.
I think it fuels chaos.
I think it fuels division.
Here's my point.
When you let politicians run prosecutions of opponents, you've got a problem.
Congressional oversight has been perverted into nothing but advantage.
They won't even look into their own programs about what's flying in the air and how they find it, collect it, research it.
They won't tell us that.
But they'll spend all this time looking into Trump's business records or Biden's business record or whatever they're looking at with Hunter Biden.
I think all of it's a mistake and all of it is a distraction of them doing the job they're supposed to do.
You do not put people into power to investigate their opposition.
You put them in there to make your life better, not to make somebody else's life miserable.
But they don't do that anymore because they don't need to because you'll vote for them on this more simple basis that's easier for them to achieve.
And that's my kind of wake-up call.
That's my frustration of what I'm trying to break through.
And I keep getting beat down because it's hard to go against the game.
Can I ask you a follow-up on this?
Because it's sort of emblematic what Vinny's asking you about.
Essentially what your premise is, is that this two-party system is killing us, this binary approach to everything that Christopher Ray is either a righty or a lefty.
That's it.
It's actually very nuanced.
Trump put him into place, but there's been a weaponization of the FBI, allegedly.
It's very nuanced.
Trump took Chris Christie's recommendation for Ray.
So when you say Trump put him in place, here's a guy that's coming in trusting Chris Christie.
Chris Christie recommends Ray.
And you can say two-party system.
This isn't a two-party system issue.
This is establishment, anti-establishment, period.
Done deal.
Kennedys were anti-establishment.
They killed him.
Trump is anti-establishment.
They've done everything but kill him.
Okay.
If you're part of the establishment, you're part of the yes crowd.
You're part of the crowd that desperately needs them.
You're protected.
If you're not, they will destroy your life, period.
And by the way, we can sit here and talk all this rhetoric all we want.
You notice the greatest thing about numbers is results.
So meaning bad policies have consequences.
Why are 2,500 cops quitting their jobs in Blue City just this year?
I know why.
Okay, let me read it.
New York, NYPD has a significant exodus of officers in 2023.
2,516 officers leaving, marking the fourth highest number in the past decade.
More than 1,000 officers left before eligible for their pensions.
1,000 officers left before they're eligible for their 20th year of service.
The workload is a leading factor for driving people away from the job, said President Patrick Henry.
If the NYPD is going to survive these staffing reductions, it cannot just keep squeezing cops for more hours.
So why did they leave these, quit these jobs?
Part of it is the workforce issue, sure, but there's more than that.
Like what?
The job is dangerous.
And these guys have been weaponized and made into the bad guys.
By who, though?
Well, largely the left.
Yeah.
Okay.
Exactly.
And they feel it.
These are men and women.
By the way, you say largely, it's not largely.
It's solely the word is not.
Well, the right is not on the culture side, yes.
But on the how much do you pay them?
On the what kind of protection do they get in the workforce?
On the what are they up against in the people that you're having them police, the right gets into play with its policies and what it is against in terms of policies.
But to be a cop, I mean, I have a lot of my friends are on the job.
And it used to be a generational thing.
You know what I mean?
But now it's they're afraid they're not going to come home.
They don't get their respect.
They're doing something that if you don't see it as service, you don't understand what service is.
Okay.
You're dealing with the worst that society has to offer on a daily basis.
And God forbid you make a move to save your own life or that you think is right and under the color of authority that people disagree with, you're going to get blown up and your whole life is going to, and you may die.
You may die.
If not then, down the road.
Who wants that job?
It doesn't pay that much.
Many people do.
Many people do.
Many people want to be, meaning when you become a cop.
I'm saying that's why they're leaving.
I don't think so.
They get fed up.
I think cops do it for pride.
I think cops do it for protection.
You know how certain people you had friends, they weren't fighters, but they were protectors.
Meaning if somebody said something to your smaller friend, they would fight, but they wouldn't start a fight.
They were the protectors, right?
That's the wiring of a cop.
They want to protect.
That's a hard job.
It should be anyway.
Their divorce rates are super high.
It's been for a decade.
It's not like it's a new thing.
They have very high divorce rates.
It's not easy, but you have to sign up for that job.
To me, when you sit there and you go through numbers and you show what's going on with numbers, numbers don't like.
For example, we're talking about zombie companies yesterday.
I don't know what we're talking about.
It was with Beck yesterday in Dallas.
We're talking about zombie companies, zombie companies in America.
I don't know how familiar you are with zombie companies.
We just talked this on the last podcast.
So companies who were 1% of companies and 97 were zombie companies.
Zombie companies are those that can only live off of raising debt.
If they don't get debt, guess what?
They cannot survive, right?
Today's 25% of companies are zombie companies.
Did you hear that number?
From 1% to 25%.
That's the number right there.
Okay.
Just whatsoever.
Over 25% of U.S. companies are zombie companies.
This means the only reason they can make it is because of low interest rates.
So what's going on with interest rates today?
They're getting crushed.
We had a meeting yesterday.
Half the conversation time yesterday was about interest rates.
Yes or no?
You know what I'm talking about.
Absolutely.
Going into the impact on corporate America that used to raise a little bit of debt to build a factory that they could afford.
They could afford the payments.
But now it's mountains of debt to pay regular cash flow issues on regular expenses.
So you know when's the first time rates went up?
2017, 2018, 2019.
Rates started going back up after the whole years of us having low interest rates.
Well, artificially low.
Of course, artificially low.
And I got to tell you, Zero.
You know, I'm not disagreeing with what you're saying.
You're right.
You're right.
But, you know, data is very powerful, especially as a function of the why analysis of why the number is what it is, right?
The number is only as good as its explanation.
Let me tell you, it is frustrating for companies to not be able to take on debt.
It's much more frustrating for households to not be able to take on debt and to pay rates that would put any business rate ever on credit cards.
So what does this have to do with the cops, though?
Well, let me make my point.
Fair enough.
So what I'm trying to say is the fact that we can sit there and, based on data, saying the fact that this is the reason why companies should be out and it's not working.
Low interest rates for a long time causes a lot of fake success.
We don't need it.
We don't need fake success.
There's way too much fake success over that 128-month economic expansion.
2,500 cops quitting in New York.
Why are you doing that?
There's data.
This data validates.
The top two states in the country for net positive migration this year, not 2021, not 2020, not 2022.
This year is Florida number one, Texas number two.
What is a bottom net negative?
It's California and New York.
You can spin anything you want to spin, brother.
Any one of us can spin it.
I can see, you know, when people say, when you ask him, like, hey, man, can I talk to you, bro?
No, no, there's a word for it, like when fat people use it as an out to say big boned.
I don't know.
There's another one.
Anyways, but here's the thing.
Watch this.
The reality of it is this.
Chris, if somebody had your routine on a daily basis, what you eat, how you train, what you do.
You're in my house, 15 minutes, you're on the floor wrestling with Dylan, and Dylan's doing jiu-jitsu.
If somebody trained like you, you think their life's going to get better physically, they're going to get healthier?
Yeah, if they don't get injured.
But they're going to get healthier, right?
So good practices, good results.
So guess what?
You can spin all you want about why you're fat.
Results show what the hell you eat and how often you train and what you do.
So everybody on the left can go up there and spin up all the stuff that they want about the right, even like what the gentleman did yesterday with RFK.
Well, we don't know the stuff with his mental and all the shit.
That's spinning.
That's the beautiful thing on spinning, right?
But at the end of the day, a guy pulls up and finishes a conversation and says, here's the data.
If that's the opening question I asked is, your brother said wealth is leaving.
Majority of taxes come from wealth.
Why are they leaving states like New York?
Because maybe these policies effing suck.
And we have to look at it and say, we can spin and blame Trump and blame Republicans and blame capitalists and blame entrepreneurs and blame everybody.
Maybe you should blame your policies.
It'd be great if that would be the basis of the vote.
Because one, the nice comfort you have is you happen to be right, okay?
They're not leaving because of the politics.
They're leaving because of the reality of what's best for them.
A little bit of that may be a value play, but most of it's going to be an economic play, right?
Especially as you get into more sophisticated class of people that, you know, hey, this tax difference is no state tax in Florida.
Even if I offset it with the property tax and the sales tax, I'm going to come out 8, 10, 12% ahead.
It makes sense.
But my point, you're right, but that is not the basis of play.
Spin, that's the least of all.
Who cares, though?
Who cares?
The voters.
No, no, no.
The voters.
But then it's our job.
No, bro.
What you just said right there is you just said you're right about the policies.
Yeah.
But we, okay.
So then what I'm interpreting from you is.
When's the last time people voted for policy?
What's the policy?
I think it's 12%.
I think it's 12%.
By the way, if we talk on abortion, stuff, it's been policy.
But that's something that's forced on them as well.
I get that.
But what I'm saying is I do think it's policies.
I also think on the other side, I think one side knows how to sell the nightmare very well.
One side knows how to sell the dream.
The one side that's selling the dream has sucked at selling the dream.
I had Governor Ron DeSantis here.
I'm in the state of Florida because of him.
I said, sell me the dream.
Just sell me the dream.
Sell me the dream why America is the greatest country in the world.
Just like, bam, bam, bam.
That's not selling me the dream.
So I agree with you that.
And half of his sell is how bad the left is.
See, that's the problem.
That's how he wins.
I don't disagree.
But that's how he'll win.
But I don't think he will, though.
I don't think he will.
But I'm saying, if you win, like everyone's saying to Nikki Haley, right?
So there's different layers of what she has as an obstacle.
Chris Christie is pushing her on the, hey, you have to deny Trump.
No, she doesn't have to deny Trump.
To win, what she's going to have to do is one, kill off everybody else or hopefully let them die, right?
I mean, like something that has to happen in the primary.
And then she has to point out that the opponent, if it's, let's say, President Biden, is too old.
That's a danger.
He's taking us down the way.
Bad things are going to happen.
Look at the bad things.
Look at the far left.
Look at what's happening.
There will be no, if I am president, I will do this and this, unless the this and this is undoing something that he did.
That's the game.
And she's not wrong to play it that way because that's how you win.
But if someone wants to sell you the dream, there are two things that change a grievance culture cycle.
One is amazing catastrophe, huge crisis that galvanizes because you don't have any time for bullshit.
9-11, okay?
Now, you can argue whether or not we were focused on the right things after 9-11, right?
There are all these people who are getting brutalized and Islamophobia, and I didn't like it, and I was against it.
But everybody shut up with the right and left.
President Bush was walking around in a city that he wasn't welcome in.
Mayor Giuliani was dead man walking in New York politically before.
But everybody put away all those fights.
Many of them were artificial and really just to suit the game, not real policy.
And they were only focused on policy.
And what's the number one policy?
Self-protection.
Keep us safe.
So that's the one thing that can do it.
Pandemic was not a big enough crisis to do it.
Got weaponized.
Used one way, used another way, did not galvanize.
So crisis, the bar is going up for what it takes us for.
I don't even want to think about what kind of crisis we would have.
What's the other one?
Guys like you who are transcendent figures with a message that can overpower the status quo.
Very rare bird.
And usually they wind up metaphorically symbolizing a cause that is the tantamount to crisis.
Like what?
Obama.
Obama was the manifestation of America can be better than its history of inequality.
He is the proof of this.
He meant that to people.
People cried about why his significance was so profound in America, given how we had gotten to where we were if you decided to see it a certain way.
Transcendent.
Now, did he live up to it?
Of course not.
Very hard to.
Very hard to.
So there are two things that pull you out of this grievance cycle.
Because if you don't have one of those two things, I'm going to beat you.
I'm going to beat you with grievance.
You can sell your dream.
You can do your data.
I'm going to dig into you a little bit.
I'm going to find something.
And I'm going to harp on that one thing and how all your buddies are a problem.
And what you want is dangerous, scary.
And you personally are probably scary.
And I'm going to win.
Why?
Look at the results.
You want to look at the data.
You do an ad buy.
You sit down with a consultant.
The ratio of PBD sucks to, you know, Chris or Vinny is good is like six to one.
Why?
Because the negative sells.
Why?
Psychologically, it's easy.
We work to self-protection.
And you have a built-in cynicism that these people are lying and you have to be protected from their deception, right?
So you have that going for you.
Then negativity is a very powerful proxy for insight.
When you're reading articles, if I do a story on PBD and it's, I love this, I love this, I love this, I love this.
This guy's great.
I see him with his family.
The guys around him, they love him.
It's great.
I love the brand.
I love it.
I love everything about him.
What a fucking puff piece.
Holy cow.
Boy, did Cuomo fall for Patrick Ben David.
I do a piece where half this stuff is demonstrably false, negative.
Oh, you know, he didn't pay for any of this stuff.
And all this.
And there's really another guy.
And none of it's true.
And you could just put it out and be like, there's no other guy.
This guy doesn't exist.
People see it.
That's hard-hitting journalism right there, boy.
That was a real piece.
That was strong.
Why?
Negativity.
Yeah, I come from a place of the right guy is.
Can you move your phone away from the mic and just put mine away as well?
Maybe it's mine.
One phone's being picked up.
Just put mine away.
So I don't think you're wrong because, you know, mainstream media, every day they shit on Trump.
Every single day they turn him into a monster.
And then now you got BLM leaders saying they're endorsing Trump.
What?
You got now weird people coming out saying, listen, I don't like the fact of what they're doing to him.
I relate to him and all this stuff.
Now they're backing him up.
How about Michael Rappaport?
Yeah, exactly.
That's a weird one.
And the way he did it.
The way he did it.
While still talking shit.
And Rose.
And Musk.
And all those other guys.
Michael Rappaport.
And then there was one more.
Oh, there was one.
Huh?
Cardi B. Cardi B being.
Can't speak English.
But the point I'm trying to make is I think the part about being that person and you're right about trashing them.
They say bad news people tell to 11 people.
Good news, they tell to three people.
And that number makes sense.
Like you get a bad review for a company, they're going to tell 11.
You get a good review, they tell three.
I understand that part.
Doesn't necessarily mean it's what's best for the country.
So eventually, if a person's able to evangelize a message and sell it and is a true believer, like it's not a phony actor that knows how to put the words together, they're going to create momentum and they're going to create a lot of enemies.
I want to transition to a different story.
Let's go to a different story.
So Americans under 30 don't trust religion or anything else.
Okay.
Different story.
And let's see what this goes into.
Tom, I'm going to come to you first with this one here.
Young Americans, particularly Gen Z and the youngest millennials, are increasingly disaffiliating from organized religion with up to 40% categorizing themselves as nuns, a term encompassing atheists, agnostic, and those with no specific religious affiliation.
Many of the young adults prefer to identity as nothing in particular, reflecting their reluctance to align with the defined religious world.
This formative distrust is attributed to the experiences of growing up during periods of political turmoil where institutions and processes were increasingly criticized and questioned.
Factors contributing to the dissatisfaction of organized religion among young adults include evolving views on issues like abortion, LGBTQ acceptance, and the role of women in churches.
Tom.
Well, I can tell you where this is going from.
And you go to that statement there.
Formative distrust is attributed to experiences of growing up during periods of political turmoil.
And I'm going to call BS on that.
It's not about the political turmoil.
Political turmoil is something that's in the background.
And that's what the schools are playing off.
This is directly related to basically the counter arguments that they get hit in the indoctrinations that they get hit with in the classroom.
You take a look at these kids.
My wife's a teacher.
You see what happens.
Ninth and 10th grade.
You're starting to have your own opinion.
You're going through puberty.
You want to be confident.
You're starting to discover the opposite sex and things like this.
There's a lot of things that are happening psychologically at that point.
And you have just spent all this time being told a whole ration of things that we all know the list of.
They fall under the umbrella of indoctrination, which is subtle re-spin of history or complete, you know, skipping and not even teaching things at history.
And these folks, these young kids, all of a sudden rise up and they don't know what they believe.
That's the issue.
They don't know what they believe.
They see difference between their one parent.
They see the difference between their indoctrination.
And then you ask them, what do you trust?
What do you trust at age 30 after they've gone to the military or they've gone to college or they've gone to trade school?
And now they've grown up in this and then they walk out into the society that is actually split binary with all this stuff coming at them.
What do we expect?
We haven't taught them to trust the platform.
We haven't taught them that real truth exists.
We haven't taught them about, you know, the dignity of a strong, you know, self and a strong sense of right and wrong.
Instead, we got this culture of doubt and moral relativism that what's good for you is good for you and this is good for me.
Well, then where's the real truth and where's what I really believe?
And then you ask them these questions about religion when they're 30 years old and that's the headline you want to spin on it.
But really, you've built these people that have no foundations, haven't been taught any core structure.
And this isn't all of them.
This is a percent of them, 40% of them.
The rest of them are out there with parents like you, me, others.
I assume you, Chris, we're trying desperately to put a platform under our kids to understand that personal integrity means something.
And personal integrity means that you have to make a choice and you have to say, this is what's right.
And this is what I'm going to cling to, no matter how many arrows are thrown at me personally, or I'm sitting here scratching my head, listening to my teacher or my college professor or others in my life tell me that red is blue and blue is red.
These kids have been confused.
And is it a surprise that 40% of them feel this way when they get to be 30 years old?
It's not a surprise.
I think it's a good point.
I'm really worried about Gen Z because we see what's going on, this narrative that's going on.
They're the most educated generation ever.
They're the most diverse generation ever.
Yet they're the most lost generation ever.
Okay.
And social media has a major part to blame in that.
But you always see that generate that Gen Z is so fixated on mental health and anxiety and depression, yet they have more anxiety and depression than any other generation.
There used to be something called a midlife crisis.
It used to come in at age 50 or age 60 when, you know, the guy used to get a Corvette.
Now your midlife crisis has now basically been turned on its head.
They're now having what's called quarter life crisis, where you have 20 year olds or 25 year olds or 30 year olds even basically reevaluating everything.
And it's okay to question everything in society.
That's okay.
But why are you questioning?
Because are you trying to arrive at an answer?
You're just trying to be basically sort of a pest to everything.
And there's sort of these pestilent teenagers and petulant Gen Zs who are just basically looking to upend the institutions that have basically got us to this point.
And that's fine, but because political institutions are okay to be questioned.
We just talked about the divergence of what's going on in America and the political parties.
And it's okay to question organized religion.
That's fine.
But to question God, like we see Megan Rapino, who's sort of a face of the LGBT movement, when she misses a goal, questions God, right?
She tears her Achilles.
I guess it was God's fault.
But what happens when you want?
But there's sort of this mistrust that's going on in society.
And some of it has to do with social media.
Some of it has to do with deep fakes.
Some of it has to do with AI, but at some point there needs to be some sort of universal truth.
What I always find so humorous are these like my truthers.
Well, I'm just living my truth.
Hey, just my truth.
No, listen.
Listen, motherfucker, there's something called the truth.
And there's just so much going on in the world where everyone's just kind of living their own reality and their own truth.
But it's like, no, let's have some sort of agreement of what is actually right or wrong.
And the collectivism and the socialism and the Marxism that our friend Malay was talking about is sort of taking over.
It's like, if you want a good idea of that, it's somehow the smartest people, the people in the Ivy League schools, the Harvards of the world and the Yales of the world or the Columbias of the world are actually having some of the most backward thinking, this intersectionality or the gays for Gaza, where you're protesting for Gaza.
Yet if you did that in Gaza, you'd be killed.
Okay.
Or the decolonialization or the oppressor and the oppressed mindset.
There's all this stuff happening amongst Gen Z.
And I think it's incumbent upon older folks to be like, listen, little buddy, let me tell you a little something back in my day.
We used to laugh at that.
Like when our grandparents would be like, back in my day, I used to walk the school backwards and no shoes uphill.
It's like, I think it's incumbent on sort of 40-year-olds and 50-year-olds who aren't even that old to be like, listen, you know, my little 20-year-old friend, let me explain how the world kind of works here.
It's why you see Osama bin Laden being the good guy these days in some of these Gen Z TikTok stories, where it's like, what the fuck just happened?
Whereas 20 years ago, he was the enemy.
Now he's the hero.
Things have been so perverted and so perverse that it sort of takes sort of a rebalancing or an equilibrium to be like, this overcorrection really needs to kind of come back to reality.
That's where I'm at with this.
And what about the, I don't know if you saw this, Chris?
Are you Catholic?
Yeah.
Are you Catholic?
Have you been seeing so the Pope has gone woke?
You've been seeing this guy.
Like he's been generally going woke.
And Pat, I don't know if you know this.
We talked about him yesterday, Chris.
I mean, and bro, I can care less who he invites, but this whole, you know, going towards the transgender and inviting them to have dinners or lunches or whatever they're doing.
There's actually, Bob, I sent you the link.
He just punished the other day, the Pope punished a conservative cardinal.
I forgot his name, Bob.
I think I sent it to you.
I'll send it to you right now.
Cardinal Burke, he took away his money, took away where his apartment is up because he has conservative views and he's going against what the Pope is doing.
So they're punishing people.
So you can see how Christianity just in general, it's starting to turn the other way.
Do you know what I mean?
So I can see how people don't.
I mean, Chris, what are your thoughts on this?
This is a very deep story and situation.
I mean, it really goes to everything.
Good choice by you.
Some of it you can just peel away easily.
The Pope's the boss.
You should talk the boss.
You're going to have trouble.
All right.
That's Burke's situation.
Him going woke.
Bergoglio, Pope Francis' real name, has always been radically inclusive, poverty, obsessed.
He made deals with drug dealers in the equivalent of the favelas in Argentina because he just wanted to help people.
He's always been very expansive.
If anything, he has been pushed way to the right by the institution of Catholics who are against him for being to what he sees is walk in the walk of Jesus.
That's the Catholics.
So now that takes us to the overarching thing of where are we with religion?
You ask me, am I Catholic?
I immediately say yes.
Oh, do I go to church every Sunday?
No.
Do you do what you're supposed to do?
But you're a Catholic?
Why?
I was raised Catholic.
Okay.
The big data point with this new generation is they were not raised that way.
Goes to Tom's point.
Well, then how were they raised or not raised?
Now you're looking at the schools to do what was never a school's concern before.
When I went to school, my teacher wasn't telling me how to be, how not to be.
If they didn't like my behavior, they called home and they said, your son did this or did that, deal with it.
That structure has been taken away.
Why?
We've got a lot of broken families.
So the kids aren't raised in a faith the way they were a generation ago.
They have been introduced to a media culture.
Social media amplifies, okay, but it can't amplify what doesn't exist.
Where religion is constantly under attack and the values under which the religions used to operate are under attack.
So why would the kids be into something that they weren't raised in, that they've only seen the ugly underbelly of, and they exist in a secular society, meaning you can believe whatever the hell you want to believe as long as you don't put it anybody else in a negative way.
So I am not concerned by their lack of embrace of that.
The problem becomes, well, then what do you embrace?
Okay, you don't have to be Catholic.
You don't have to be Christian.
You don't have to be Muslim.
You don't have to be anything.
But what are you?
Now we start to get into what the real concern is.
What are you really about?
Every generation fears that the next one is soft and broken and different in this country, right?
Our parents lived in fear of the boob tube.
That thing's going to suck out your brain.
And now it's us with the phones.
I think we're more right than they were, but it doesn't matter.
So having concerns about the next generation, not unusual.
But to Patrick's point, policies, ways, mechanisms, what are you about?
That's where we have the problem.
What are you encouraging?
One of the things I would love to see from our government is a mandated year of service after high school.
Totally agree.
I say it all the time.
And it doesn't have to be military.
It doesn't have to be military.
But it has to be for everybody.
My kids, the garbage man kids, the postman's kids, the general's kids, the senator's kids.
Why?
Because you will be inculcating a value system that this is what we do.
We surrender the me to the we.
We don't do that in any collective way.
And even when we kind of do it, like we were talking about the first responders, the cops, we don't really see them as what they are and what they're supposed to mean to us.
Oh, because they don't live up to it.
But the standard should still exist.
And when they don't live up to it, what are they not living up to?
It just reinforces that you need to have the standard.
And when the overwhelming majority lives up to a standard, why do you have a culture that is all about the negative and showing the aberrant cases and the minority of the reality, which is where it goes wrong?
Why do we harp only on that?
The misplaced virtue is to say, well, that's how we ensure it gets better.
No, it isn't.
Here's something I know as a matter of fact, okay?
And by the way, I suck at this.
You want to change behavior.
You're fat, okay?
You're not doing well at work.
Your kid's doing lousy in school.
Your kid is just a bastard.
You know, whatever it is, bad behavior.
My generation is, you're going to get a beating for this.
This is going to be bad.
Okay.
Does that work?
Yes, despite the mechanism.
The best way, this guy, Alan Kasden, you can look it up, K-A-Z-D-I-N.
This kid, this guy spent decades studying results of how to fix bad kids.
And there are bad kids, you know, this idea that there's no such thing as bad kids, just bad parents.
No, there's bad kids because they're bad behaviors.
And you got to look at the course for the behavior, and then you go to the parent and go to a million other things.
Here's how you change anything, okay?
And even the word discipline, okay?
Discipline does not mean punishment.
It means to follow.
And what you follow is going to lead you to a destination.
You follow something bad, you're going to wind up bad.
You follow good, you're going to go good.
Positive reinforcement of doing it the right way yields the best results.
Here's how we see it manifesting itself from the simple to the obscure.
When you screw up your diet, okay, the temptation, the overwhelming temptation is to fuck up the next meal.
Am I right?
You know, you eat that breakfast you were supposed to not have.
This guy said, I wanted to get the job.
He's offering me sausage.
I ate the sausage.
The chance that you have a cheeseburger at your next meal goes up.
Why?
Because you've abandoned the standard.
And when you reinforce it by, I'm actually going to go to the gym right after this breakfast.
And I'm not supposed to even work out today, but I'm going to go.
The positive reinforcement puts you back on track.
You catch your kid doing homework instead of being on their phone and say, look at this.
Where do you want to go to eat tonight?
I'm taking you out.
Better chance they do homework without you telling them the next time.
Better than me walking in being like, you were on your phone.
I told you not.
It works.
He almost got slapped.
I was back down.
Exponentially better.
Why?
Positive reinforcement.
We live in a society that is consumed by the negative.
We don't reward anybody for anything unless they don't deserve it.
You know, to your point, of intersectionality, of the model who doesn't look like a model anymore.
Why?
We want to celebrate this.
Yeah, the fat girl on the cover of Victoria's Secret.
Now, there's a difference between, hey, everybody's got to belong.
That's a serious issue, though.
Everybody's got to belong.
But the idea of the archetype, the standard has to remain as well.
And what we are in a phase of doing now is rationalizing anybody's lack of success as a function of being a victim.
And here's the problem with that.
Sounds good, can be rationalized.
It's not how life works.
The mechanisms of existence do not care about the individual actor.
It doesn't matter that he had to overcome so much.
I'm either going to give him the loan or I'm not going to give him the loan.
I'm either going to invest or I'm not going to invest.
And his story is either impressive to me or it isn't on the basis of where he is in that moment.
We as a society, because we're not based on a lot of firm backstops of what you guys are talking about, right, wrong, good, bad, success, failure.
We don't even like tests anymore, right?
The more you do that, the more you get into this nebulous existence where Vinny looks like this, I'm plus 30, but we're the same and we're okay in our own ways.
No, Vinny's leaner.
Vinny looks better.
That's the way it is.
You want to look like Vinny, eat different, live different, but his genetics.
Listen, at the end of the day, there are outcomes.
There is data.
We do not respect that in our culture anymore.
Your story hits on all of that.
These kids don't know what to believe in.
Why would they?
They're not held to any standards.
They don't have to win to get a trophy.
They say to you at work, I feel like you're not giving me enough positive reinforcement for what I've been doing.
You're doing what I told you to do.
Yeah, but I feel like I'm not getting the reward system that I need.
Oh, welcome to life, where you get what I give, because that's the dynamic here.
We've moved away from all those things.
The question is: how do you get them back?
Which goes to your other point.
Policies get it back.
Policies get it back.
Practices get it back.
These universities that are allowing behavior they would never allow targeting any other group except Jewish people, their funders should come after them.
Their management should come after them, or it should be changed.
You want to be the bastion of the humanities and inculcating this wide breadth of what people should take in and understand, then be that.
You want to be lefties who are totally liberal in your ideology and you don't want conservative voices around?
Then be that.
But now the places who say they're all about tolerance are allowing grotesque intolerance.
Why?
There's no standard.
So how do we get back to a standard?
PBD doesn't give them money.
That's why.
Because he gives money to the university where the man or the woman stood up and said, you can protest here, but I don't want to see any signs about from the river to the city.
Why?
Because it's a coded message.
It's like creating a coded black effigy.
Oh, no, it isn't.
Because blacks are oppressed and the Jews are in power.
They are the oppressor.
Oh, really?
Okay.
Because tell the families of the six million plus that were burned.
Tell them that they are that.
Oh, yeah, but that was then.
It's different now.
Oh, really?
Because all Jews are what?
White?
Go to Israel.
See how many Jews are not white.
And well, so now what do you have?
The rationales break down.
Why?
Because the premise is weak.
It's just outrageous.
It's just grievance without any standard.
The practices and the policies will bring back the standards.
Now, here's the overwhelming problem.
And it's so interesting that, you know, you guys, most of you watching right now don't understand what's happening outside this bank vault that we're in right now.
You guys are practicing exactly the opposite of what is happening in larger society.
You are growing a brand and an ethos that is built on principles of positivity, performance, okay?
And that is not what wins in the game.
It will for you guys.
You're going to be tremendously successful.
But in politics, which is so powerful in our culture, okay, used to be secondary.
It's now primary.
The way to win is the opposite of the practices and policies that'll get us better.
And that is the frightening thought to me.
It's not Islamic terror.
It's not left-wing this or right-wing that.
It's that in the main, we are a culture that is not obsessed with improvement, with virtue, with community, with cause.
And that is a dangerous road.
And that's why we're so perceived as weak right now.
I can't believe we haven't been hit.
Thank God.
If we got hit right now, you know what happened?
Not what happened on 9-11.
Of course not.
Where it was, like Bush, don't like Bush.
I don't care.
He's in control and he says he's going to protect us.
Let's go.
It would be, look what happened.
It would be the blame game.
Yeah, look at Biden.
Yeah, of course Biden did this.
He's got to go with the open book.
He's got to leave tomorrow.
Yeah, of course.
He's got to leave tomorrow.
And well, what about the guys who did this?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll figure that out.
That would be our first fight.
That's the scary proposition.
You know, you said a couple things in there.
One of them is virtue, and you can see how the waterfall goes, and it's so quick and it's so easy.
We were, you know, a culture where all people are valuable and standards determine your outcome and your rank, right?
It doesn't matter if you feel that you've been body shamed.
If you're not fast enough or good enough to play baseball, you didn't play baseball.
You didn't make the team.
You know, you didn't.
you know, you couldn't do those things.
Or if you didn't score on the test, you didn't do it.
So all people are valuable and need to be encouraged to achieve.
But there are standards there and there's going to be a rank.
Used to be.
And now that you have no cut policies.
Everybody's on the team.
Right.
So they got like 30 kids on the team.
Or participation.
Two-thirds of them suck.
Exactly.
So that was point A.
Now we go to point B.
We move from standards to feelings.
I feel this.
I feel that.
And now it's all feelings are valuable rather than all people and individuals are valuable.
And then it's virtuous for what we do at the Special Olympics.
So isn't even more virtuous to apply that to all the people with the feelings.
That's the simple waterfall.
And we have to turn it around.
You know, it's crazy when we're talking about religion.
We all have, I was an atheist 25 years.
We all have the friend that doesn't trust religion.
I had a guy the other day that said, hey, why don't you put your kids in a private school that's Christian?
Oh, I will never do that.
Yeah, I can't tell you the stories.
But I remember as a kid when I went to Catholic school, what happened to me?
And I will never, I will never put my son through this.
And this guy was talking to is a very, very successful guy.
He said, I would never do that.
Okay.
So some of this stuff that we have is from our upbringing, what we saw, what happened to us.
Totally valid.
You can't take that away from the individual.
It's a one-on-one.
It's them.
Respect.
But go to, give you a couple different instances.
You're at the house.
Your daughter brings over a guy to the house.
What do you want to know about the guy?
If he tells you, you know, yeah, what's up?
What's up, Chris?
Yeah, I love your stuff.
I love your shit, dog.
You know, fucked up.
Hey, what's up, PBD?
Listen.
Pump the bricks, bro.
Okay.
Tell me about yourself.
Well, Mr. Bed David, you know, my father's this.
My dad is this.
Okay, so tell me about your upbringing.
So mom, dad, family, family of four.
You know, I have an older sister and, you know, what's your older sister doing at XYZ?
How about your parents?
Yeah, you know, Christian, no, we're Catholic.
Did you practice?
Yeah, we practice and here's what we do and da-da-da-da, rituals.
Okay, what role did that play?
Well, I grew up in a private, you know, Catholic squad went there.
Okay.
And then tell me what your day-to-day looks like, schedule and what things are.
You like the organized?
Well, I have this and I do this and I don't.
Okay, great.
Routine, all this stuff.
We can debate the validity of any faith.
Guess what?
You're not going to know if you're right or wrong.
The only time we're going to know we're right or wrong is when we die.
Okay.
So we got to kind of wait till that happens.
Hopefully it takes a long time to know if you're right or wrong because that just means you're living a longer life.
But we can have that friendly battle and debate it.
Cool.
What I will say is when you meet somebody that you recruit to a company or a sports team or when NFL teams or MLB teams are recruiting a talent, what do they want to know?
They want an upbringing?
Like a 5-2 player?
What do you want to know?
I want to meet his mom and dad.
What was the discipline like?
What did you guys do?
Oh, that's a strong Christian family.
That's a strong, you know, such and such.
Okay, great.
So faith played a role?
Yes.
Then what do you get with faith?
You get structure.
You get fear, which you need fear, because you need a little bit of that to not do the dumbest things that you're going to do in life.
You're going to be taught certain values and principles on what you're doing.
There's a certain level of expectations on the type of a character you're going to have if you have that.
But one could say, but who cares about that?
You know, religion is the reason why we have all these wars.
No, religion is not the reason for the wars.
It's how people used religion.
The same thing that gun is not the reason why all this stuff happens is because people use gun.
Cars are a lot easier to kill a lot of people.
You can drive a car into an audience of 50 people, boom, kill them, no problem.
And you do it like this.
How come it doesn't happen every single day that it happens?
Because we have to have some kind of control over the weapon that we have, right?
So I think it's a very big mistake that's being made today with faith.
I think the quality of hires are going to get lower because the values and principles are going to be lower.
I think culturally, long-term, you know, this recklessness where you don't have a certain level of pride in what you're doing.
I would much rather hire somebody that's got a certain level of discipline, upbringing, and a faith-based family than somebody that was reckless.
I don't believe in anything.
I don't fear anything.
Yeah, I'm going to be okay.
It hurts the possibility of having a stable person there.
So they're going to continue doing this and selling it.
It is what it is.
But my concern goes in a completely different way than from this.
And by the way, we're having this conversation with somebody.
I asked him a question.
I said, so you got five communities to live in.
This guy's like, but you don't understand what they're doing with Hamas.
And ta-da-da-da-da.
I said, really?
Yeah.
I said, cool.
So you think it's what?
But you got to know the Jews are this.
I said, oh, okay.
No problem.
I said, let me simplify the question for you.
By the way, some people are going to hate this question, but your answer is the answer.
And what's the question?
Here's the question.
You have a choice.
You have five communities you can raise your family in.
I'm asking this guy the question.
By the way, some of you are going to be very offended by this question.
Oh, well.
You answer the question.
I didn't answer the question.
You answer the question.
I said, you got five communities.
One community is filled with white Mormons.
Okay, cool.
Another community is filled with black Christians.
Okay.
Another community to raise your kids is filled with Jews.
It's 85% Jewish.
Another community is 85% Muslim.
Which community do you want to raise your family in?
This guy is black.
Without hesitation, guess what he said?
Guess what he said?
Jewish.
He said, the Mormons, black Christians, then one Jewish, then went Muslim.
I said, wait, what did you just say?
And he's like, well, you know, I said, well, why?
Why are you feeling this way?
Well, you know, I'm like, I didn't tell you any answer.
You just answered a question.
By the way, for me, for 10 years, I lived around 95% Muslims.
I lived there and I met a lot of great.
But why is it that Muslims feel safer coming to America?
Why are they leaving?
Why do they come here?
Why do they feel safer coming to places like this?
How come Americans don't go to move to Palestine?
How come Americans are not moving to some of these countries?
These are valid questions to be asking.
Are these questions that could offend the community?
Of course.
Are people going to make reaction videos to this?
Here you go again.
Pat shows his true colors.
Go to make it.
Totally fine with it.
I'm comfortable in my skin.
But to me, we have to ask: if a community is teaching certain values and principles that you feel safer with, guess what?
We ought to go back to teaching some level of faith, praying to a God that we don't believe in because it encourages a level of faith.
If you want to win in life, you need faith.
If you want to build a business, you need faith.
If you want to have your marriage work out, you need faith.
You need faith for anything big you want to do in your life.
Okay.
And Charlie Munger, one of the interviews I was watching this morning, early this morning, this lady is asking the question and says, Hey, so, you know, what do you think about the obituary and all this other stuff and your life and how you've lived and what you do with this and your kids?
And he's breaking down all these different stories.
He's saying, you know, me and Buffett, we've both lived in the same house for decades, same house, for decades.
You know where we are right now.
And at the end of the day, you know, the way I live my life is going to tell my kids how to live their lives and, you know, what kind of people they're going to be.
And our family was a lot about values and principles and all this other stuff.
I think we need more of that today.
I think we need a lot of faith today.
Anyone with a big vision or dream needs to have faith.
It's hard to do it without it.
Anyways, that's my thoughts.
We can get to the next story here on what we got.
Okay, which one do we want to go to?
Let's pick and choose.
Do we want to talk China?
Do we want to talk the De Niro?
Do we want to talk Trump, Trudeau, or Maverick's Mark Cuban?
Pick the story.
What about Musk?
Which story do you want to go to?
I'm open.
Which story do you want?
Which Musk?
Musk went to Israel.
You want to do that story?
Okay.
What page is that on?
What page is a Musk story on?
I think it's Musk.
I don't know.
I don't have these little prep packs that you guys have.
Prep pack?
Rob, what page?
Oh, there you go.
Okay, here we go.
Page eight, Elon Musk, except for Mr. Cuomo, who doesn't have the notes.
Okay, Elon Musk on visit to Israel says those intent on murder must be neutralized.
Wall Street Journal story.
After visiting an Israeli community attacked by Hamas stated those intent on murder must be neutralized.
He expressed concerns about the propaganda promoting violence, saying the propaganda must stop, that is training people to be murderers in the future.
During his visit to Israel, Musk remarked, it was jarring to see the scene of the massacre while discussing the attacks on Israel civilians.
He emphasized the need to make Gaza more prosperous for lasting peace, saying, I would love to help Israel's communication minister, Shlomo Kari, announced an agreement in principle had been reached with Musk regarding the use of Starlink satellite units, highlighting the importance of controlling technology in the conflict with Hamas.
Adam.
Well, it's interesting because Musk, after basically taking a lot of heat over some certain anti-Semitic rhetoric, which I think was overblown anyway, went to go see the atrocities after what happened in October 7th.
And he actually met with Bibi Netanyahu and Isaac Herzog, the president of Israel.
And he basically gave a three-pronged approach.
This is not any situation that can be oversimplified.
But here was Elon Musk's approach, what could be done with Gaza.
And I actually fully agree with it.
It's number one, you need to destroy Hamas.
So anyone that doesn't understand that this is ISIS, this is Al-Qaeda, this is El Nusra, this is Boko Haram.
We talked about having a belief in a higher power, but there's extremists that basically believe that they are divine from God jihadists, that basically it's their way or the highway.
And there's no negotiating with these people.
They believe in this.
There's no way of getting away from that.
Now there's a whole separate conversation of how you get these people and how you get them out of the tunnels.
And they're hiding literally in hospitals and using civilians as human shields.
That's a whole nother conversation, but you need to eradicate these people.
By the way, when we went to Afghanistan and Iraq, we killed a half a million civilians.
Zero apologies.
Okay.
Horrible.
Which is bullshit because they deserve to be in jail.
Bush Jr. and Rumsfeld.
Oh, he's dead.
Totally.
That's fucking, that's crazy.
War criminals.
Totally a conversation that could be on the table, but nothing will be held accountable for that.
The point is that, number one, Hamas will need to be destroyed.
But number two, how do you rebuild Gaza after this?
Okay.
What has clearly happened since 2006, after Israel has basically disengaged from Gaza and Hamas basically was elected and they haven't had an election since.
It's not a democracy.
It's an authoritarian regime, basically where a terrorist organization runs the country.
And they basically took out FATA or the PLA, the Palestinian Liberation Organization Authority.
And the gentleman who apparently runs the PLA, give me his name again.
Who runs the top guy?
He's 88 years old.
Runs the PLA?
Yeah, he's the main guy.
Anyway, he hasn't even been to Gaza since 2006 because he fears for his life.
What's his name?
Who runs FATA?
You know his name.
You've seen his face.
He's 88 years old.
Okay, the point is this.
They need to rebuild.
So billions of dollars.
You can find it, Rob.
Billions of dollars have been funneled into Gaza from all around the world.
And what have they done with it?
They haven't built schools.
They haven't built hospitals.
They haven't built parks.
They haven't built basically civilizations that teach kids the right things to do.
They've built tunnels.
They built their war chests.
They built basically a military apparatus to basically destroy Israel from the river to the sea.
They must be free.
So they need to re-educate these people, learn how to not hate and learn how to just live their life.
But the most important thing by far is that they need economic prosperity.
So, you know, there's no reason that Gaza, which is essentially 50 miles south of Tel Aviv, which is an amazing city, a world-class city.
There's no reason that Gaza, the beaches, the beautiful area on the Mediterranean Sea, if they actually did this the right way and they focused on GDP, not war, that they can't be the Dubai or the Abu Dhabi of the Mediterranean.
We've seen the case examples of what's going on in the Gulf states, whether it's Qatar, whether it's in the UAE.
Like there's a precedent for this.
And we're seeing the president even more overblown what's going on with MBS and Muhammad Bel Salman basically trying to modernize, modernize the Middle East and basically saying we can't live in the dark ages anymore.
But the countries that still live in the dark ages, the Syrias of the world, the Yemens of the world, the Irans of the world that are ruled by mullahs, you see what their GDP is.
It's next to nothing.
And the West Bank in Gaza has the same GDP as Jordan, as Egypt, as Syria, as Lebanon.
The race to the bottom in these countries is a race to nowhere.
But if you actually want to educate your citizenry and educate the youth and have a life that every person in this world wants, a safe family, economic ability, the mobility to go where you want to go, to live the life you want to be, to have a job, to earn, that's something that I think is requirement for Gaza.
So you interviewed the son of Hamas's founder, right?
The Green Prince.
Yes, the Green Prince.
What was that like?
Talking to him.
What perspective did he give you?
Never met anybody.
Great interview.
Never met anybody like him before.
It was so interesting to me to see people discount his perspective as someone who doesn't know what he's talking about.
The son of the founder.
Yeah.
Who was a killer for Hamas, then goes to prison, sees Hamas brutalizing its own members, says, wait, what is this about?
Goes to his father.
He's in prison.
Goes to his father.
He's like, what's going on?
Realizes that the mission has been lost and goes to the Israelis and says, Hamas is actually the problem for my people.
And stays in the position as his father's guy and giving information to Israel to stop suicide bombings.
Spends 10 years, never gets detected.
He thinks people were suspicious, but it was kind of too far-fetched to believe it.
And his father's the big guy, so how could it be?
He then leaves, comes here, starts talking about how bad this Hamas situation is and how wrong it's being construed.
Then he decides he needs to get his head straight and he goes lives in Southeast Asia in some little island for 10 years doing yoga and losing all this weight.
Literally.
Yeah.
And then October 7th happens and he's like, I got to make my witness.
The first impressive thing is, of course, the story.
How can you check more boxes than this guy?
Who would you rather talk to about this?
Oh, well, he's brainwashed by the IDF.
How?
Why would he's not even in Israel?
You know, he's an American citizen, by the way.
And when he came here, they thought he was a jihadi and they wanted to kick him out.
And, you know, because his father's the head of Hamas, you know, that's all America needs to hear.
So he's had his troubles.
So the reaction was very, the second thing is the reaction that the people here who don't like what he's saying, well, this guy just hates Palestinians.
He is Palestinian.
Yeah, but he doesn't believe in a two-state solution.
He believes you can't have one when you have a terror organization running one of the two states.
Then you can't have it.
Then he makes another point that to me is a blowaway point, and I don't understand why we've ever allowed this to be.
Elon Musk, good for him for going to learn about a situation that he clearly didn't understand in context.
Good for him.
That should be the end of the analysis until we see what he does with his reach going forward.
But it won't be.
Why?
Because we're addicted with the negative.
And I shouldn't even have started with the positive.
I should have like said, oh, after he did all these bad things, because that's what we're about.
That is not what I'm about.
Let's see what he does.
He did something almost nobody in American society will do, which is be open to the fact that maybe they got it wrong when they were criticized for something other than doubling down.
Let's see what he does next.
However, why is it on Israel to rebuild Gaza or to make Gaza or the West Bank into anything?
Why isn't the only condition for any chance of a two-state solution is to relieve Israel of the burden of artificially supporting these other areas?
If you want to be a state, make Israel pull out.
You can have any kind of intercourse you want, you know, work, whatever, figure out what rules work for both sides.
There's a big spectrum of that everywhere in the world, right?
Some people like people from places.
Some people don't like them as much.
They preference, they disadvantage.
And then let the Arab Brotherhood and the Palestinians make their own way forward.
Why is it on Israel?
If you don't want, well, they're in control.
Because it's the only way for them to stay safe.
Let them do what we do.
We don't make Mexico, right?
You want the border put in place.
We get to control who comes across.
If you fuck with us, then we fight.
That's the rule.
Just like with Canada, just like between France and Germany, anywhere else.
That idea that Israel's got to make Gaza that is populated with people who are under the influence of a groupthink that Jews should not exist, that's never going to work and it never has.
Some people are new to this situation.
I've been covering it for 25 years and it's been going on long before I was born.
My father was obsessed with it and how nonsensical it was.
Musk did the right thing.
Let's see what he does next.
The idea of how do you get to a better place in the Middle East, first of all, if it were simple, we wouldn't be dealing with this kind of turmoil.
It's the only situation like it.
I wish that we were paying more attention to two other situations other than what's happening in Israel.
Look, it matters.
They're killing a lot of young people.
They're killing a lot of women.
It's horrible.
And everybody should want it to stop.
But we also know the nature of war and what we did after 9-11, and we didn't have any of the existential threat that Israel does, right?
We kept going until we didn't want to anymore.
Oh, yeah, but that was wrong.
Okay, maybe, maybe not.
But don't think that there's a new set of rules for them now.
But if you really care about this, just to the American mindset, obviously it matters and it has to be reconciled.
But to our obsession with it, why don't you feel like that about what the Saudis are doing in Yemen?
There's hundreds of thousands of people being slaughtered there.
Why?
Because they're not Saudi Arabia's kind of Muslim.
That's why.
Why doesn't that bother you?
There are a million Muslim Uyghurs in a camp being reprogrammed by the Chinese.
A million.
We don't know anything about the conditions.
And whenever we do find anything out, it's horrible.
Crickets.
Why?
The selectivity of the outrage betrays the agenda.
And there is an agenda at play.
You may not know that you're being worked by an agenda.
You may think you're acting in good faith, but it's happening.
And the way you know that it's happening is that your position doesn't make sense.
No, I'm pro-Palestine.
They shouldn't be like this.
But you don't know Palestine.
You don't know the history.
You don't know the dynamic.
You're completely discounting one side of the equation out of convenience and advantage.
So we just have to look, but you don't care about any of these other places.
You can't tell me that Israel is more of a threat to Palestine or Gaza or the West Bank than China is to a group of a million people that it has in a zoo.
But you don't care the same way.
Why?
That's the question for people to ask.
The problem we have in our society is they don't do what Musk did.
They don't ask themselves why.
They don't hear the criticism and say, hmm.
What they do is they keep swiping until they find somebody saying the guy who just asked me to ask myself why is actually a piece of shit, as it turns out.
He's actually, you know, this shill or that shill or he's, and you get away from it.
You get back to your safe space of your confirmation bias.
But in the Middle East, look, it's going to be like this until we're gone.
Why?
Because the Arab Brotherhood is not a brotherhood.
They don't treat the Palestinians like anything special.
They never have.
And in fact, they say really ugly things about Palestinians and even their virtue is Arabs, okay?
And everybody in the region and everybody who's culturally educated knows this.
So there's a lot of bullshit going on.
But why isn't it on them to build up their brothers?
Why is it on their existential enemy to build up their brothers?
The situation's never made sense.
What a great word.
Selectivity of outrage, right?
I mean, you pick and choose what you lose your mind over, and that's exactly what's happening.
What thoughts are you going to have?
Yeah, because there's one thing, like, and Azerbaijan with the Armenians.
It's like, it's like, whatever is hot, Chris, people go to it.
But then I was going to go to Adam's boy when we said, because right now, Chris, Gaza's flat.
They've bombed the hell out of it.
I have two questions.
One for you, Adam, is, you know, now that they're gone and internal documents leaked from Israel, which they were kind of like, well, it wasn't supposed to hit the public where they're saying where all these Palestinians are, you know, they want the West to take them.
They want Canada to take them.
They want everybody to take Egypt.
They want to take all these Palestinians.
Do you really think they're going to be able to come back to Gaza?
All the misplaced people that are gone now?
Do you really?
Do you genuinely think that?
I have no clue if they're going to come back or not.
They need to rebuild that country and that city.
What are they coming back to?
But nothing there.
But Chris brought up a great question.
The selective outrage.
If Egypt cared, they would take in these people.
If Jordan cared, they would take it.
They all seem we have too many.
Yeah, exactly.
They told already have.
Help out your feather brethren.
Believe me, Israel will take in any Jews that need want to come to Israel.
You can literally go get and make Aliyah if you're Jewish, and literally they will take you in.
So why won't they do that the same for their fellow Muslims?
It's a genocide.
How come there are no Jews with any significant footprint in any of these other countries except the United States?
And they have over 20% of their population is Arab.
If it were a genocidal notion, why would they be having that?
And let me tell you, having watched genocide in action, this is not what it looks like.
Oh, no.
One more thing.
Genocide.
How many Syrians were killed in the Civil War under Bashar al-Arsad?
Millions of Syrians were killed.
Where was your outrage when your fellow Muslims, people were murdering other Muslims?
What about Boko Haram in Northern Africa?
When they took all those kids.
Yes.
And we cared for like a week and a half.
And then they're like, oh, they're not still back?
And when I asked Obama about the red line in Syria, you know, I was like, what kind of line is this?
Keeps moving.
You know what I mean?
It kind of defeats the metaphor.
He was like, oh, slow down, slow down.
Well, Chris, we have a light red line and we have a dark red line.
Well, he's gassing his own people.
And I got to tell you, you know who was pissed at me?
Everybody.
Everybody was like, what do you want us to do?
What do you want us to go in there and get involved?
This isn't a problem.
This is him on the other side.
It's totally okay to kill your own people.
Yeah.
But, you know, if you want to self-defense and kill the bad guys, we have a major problem.
Look at Iran.
Chris's point goes back an hour ago.
We cared about the revolution in Iran about what?
Five minutes?
And let's be honest.
You know, if people want to be honest, why?
Because they had a wave of advocates in this country that were attractive, well-spoken people.
And that works on TV and the media.
And I don't in any way question the authenticity of their cause.
I talk with these women and some men.
It's authentic.
It's real.
They're now involved in what's going on in Israel in the Middle East, and they're being treated horribly for bad reason.
But we cared, and then it's gone.
Can I add one?
That was a uniquely American thing, by the way.
This was the most ironic thing, and I showed it to you, is the same people that were protesting the regime in Iran, the same people, and I interviewed the one lady with the hair.
She's amazing at the Freedom Forum.
Ironically, the Iranians are the loudest protesters against Hamas and in favor of the Jewish because they understand.
They know what it happened to have zealous.
Exactly.
That's right.
And if you got rid of Iran, you know, if you want to beat Biden over the head with something, I do not share a lot of the objections to the deal that was in place.
I am a something's better than nothing person.
The Iran nuclear.
Yeah.
You had something going on there that allowed some kind of foothold.
Under Obama.
Yeah.
That was better than nothing.
Okay.
It was a bad deal.
It was a bad deal.
Again, it's easy to call something a bad deal if you can't make another.
Okay.
So Iran has to be dealt with.
And they don't want to deal with it.
Why?
There's no clear advantage in it.
There's a lot of risk, right?
You got zealots.
You know, you got zealots there who are way too happy with a one-for-one exchange.
You got a war-weary public.
But Iran is kicking our ass all over the place.
They caused the troubles in Syria.
They were fueling all this stuff in Iran, in Iraq, in Afghanistan.
In Yemen.
We see it in Yemen.
We see it in Hezbollah in Africa.
They're beating people to death for not wearing their hijab right.
They, you know, they're getting, and the optics of it is like they're eating our lunch, you know.
And I remember it starting with Ahmadinejad coming to America, and there were all these people who didn't want him to have a forum.
And I was like, no, give them a forum.
Hear what this guy is about.
Look at the smile on his face when he talks about his disrespect for Western values and how we're such hypocrites.
See this guy.
Know what you oppose.
And if you were to come after them and treat them like what they are, which is the root cause of a lot of your problems in that region, because they're perverting the faith of over a billion and a half people.
But we don't do it.
See, that's a policy that I would love to see a Nikki Haley or any, I don't care who it is, to be honest with you, because I'm not obsessed with the personal.
I really believe if somebody really wants the gig and they check basic boxes, now we get to the determination, the consistency, and what their plan is, right?
So I don't like to get all caught up in the who's worse than who because you never get to better.
How big of a deal is it that Koch brothers are not supporting Haley?
Big.
Tell me why.
Money is the blood.
And it gives her an advantage over all these guys who aren't self-funded.
Only Ramaswamy can keep himself in the race.
So it, and it's also a lot of people, you know, Trump hurt some of the Koch cache, but a lot of people on the right respect the Coke's and they're like an offset to Soros to a lot of people on that side.
So I think it's an unqualified positive.
Money is establishment money, though, right?
Because Koch, you owe them favors if you take money from them.
You take money from anyone, you owe them favors.
There is an attraction to the self-funded person, although then what are you saying?
If the idea is, well, we don't want the establishment, well, what's more establishment than an independently wealthy person unless they made their money in some untraditional way.
But the money is not what scares me.
And the idea that you're going to owe people who back you doesn't scare me either.
It's about how you do it and what your guidelines are.
But if you were to own something like this, like here would be my two-point policy plan.
Okay.
This is what I would say if I were advising someone to run.
I don't care who I work with.
I'm going to do several things at the border.
One, whatever the physical thing is that they say they need, I'm going to finish it.
I also know that we're not a wall away from being safe.
I am going to triple all of our processing capacities.
I am going to triple our security capacity so you don't have the men and women who are keeping us safe there burdened by case dispositions.
I'm going to build out these massive places to humanely house probably better than where they're coming from, take care of their kids, keep all the families together.
Oh, no, they're human beings.
And I'm going to process them immediately.
And I'm going to change the laws of what asylum means.
And we're going to have a debate.
And you guys are going to tell me either economic asylum is okay or it isn't.
And if it is, under what guidelines.
But once we get our rules set, right?
And the guys who run it, CBP, have been saying for a generation, the rules don't work on asylum because we don't allow economic asylum except in the special deal we cut Venezuela.
And once we have our rules and I have my processing and I have my places, you come in illegally.
I catch you.
I put you in the center because if you claim asylum, I have new rules so I can fast track you.
You don't check the box.
You'll figure out what the boxes are.
Now you're going to check the box.
I'm going to process you and I'm going to send you back.
It's going to be expensive, but it's going to be less expensive than what we're doing right now.
And I'm going to take the people who are here.
They're all paying taxes.
We'll figure out their citizenship status later.
Sounds like you're going to be voting for Trump.
Everybody's paying up.
If he had gotten more of it done, because to him, the wall was a metaphor.
That's all he needed.
You know, they made that up on the campaign bus.
We were never a wall away from safety.
The numbers were down.
Why?
Because Michelinen, Google that name, M-C-A-L-E-E-N-A-N.
When he ran Homeland Security, CBP before it, he wound up leaving because he couldn't take what was happening with Trump.
But this guy's back to our earlier conversation about the institutions in the deep state.
This is a guy who'd been there forever, was doing the job for the right reasons.
He cut these deals with the home countries and with Mexico.
That was the key.
We cannot have everybody be processed at our border.
You should set up infrastructure and pay in the home countries to have processing done then, unless it's extreme.
So if you do that as your domestic issue, that's my only domestic issue.
Question for you.
Can Trump getting Iran?
Can Trump do anything to get your vote?
Could Trump do something to get anything?
Anything to get your vote?
Or is it that personal and frustrating to not give him the vote?
Well, first of all, and this should be enough.
He has made life hard for my family gratuitously.
Okay.
I used to speak to the president on a regular basis, and I would speak to his guys on an all-the-time basis.
Okay.
And I did not go after him personally.
I interviewed him routinely.
I was one of the people to let him do the phoner interviews.
And we were smart enough at CNN to say, offer it to Hillary, offer it to Hillary.
And her campaign would be like, no, we're not giving you an interview like every third day.
That's on them.
He wanted the opportunity.
We gave it to him.
Oh, but the phone, he should be in front of a camera.
Whatever.
You know, you're either making your case or you're not.
But you make it hard for me.
I'm no different than you.
If he had done something that made it harder for your kids in school, is he going to get your vote?
If Trump did it?
Yeah.
To me, I'm purely based on policy because I don't need to have a relationship with that individual.
Okay.
Meaning, will there be personal stuff that if somebody goes after my brother and that side?
Absolutely.
But that's not Trump's doing.
That's the establishment doing the problem.
Well, no, I'm not blaming him for what happened.
That wasn't Trump.
I'm not blaming him for that.
happened to even you, bro, what happened to you is...
I'm not blaming him for me either.
I know.
Although I know he's self-conscious.
He went after my family, though.
And what he did.
What he did.
By weaponizing the leadership.
The left went after your family.
The establishment went after your family.
There's no question that we have had our travails.
You will never, I mean, we talk on a regular basis.
You will never hear any sense of pity party coming from me.
I'm no victim.
My brother's no victim.
Oh, I totally get that.
That's not why I'm saying it.
But there were things happened that obviously I'm not happy about, that I don't think was fair.
And that's okay, because life is life.
Life is not fair.
Fair is the only four-letter word, my therapist always says.
And I love that line, so I'll steal it.
But I don't go policy only.
I think policy is a panacea in a lot of ways.
You know, it's really a cure-all if you can get to it.
But the people matter.
And if you don't act with integrity and you want to lead me, by the way, I'm not saying it's the standard for me.
I'm flawed.
I don't want to lead.
I'm not asking for your vote.
I don't think I'm the best of us.
I think I'm the rest of us.
If you want to be elevated, well, then there's going to be a standard.
Accountability.
He does not meet that standard.
Now, the best argument for him is, oh, but Biden does.
I didn't say that.
Oh, yeah, but you've said Biden's a nice guy.
He is a nice guy.
I loved his son, Bo.
Bo would have been an amazing leader for our country.
He would have been a generational leader.
Joe was nice when my father died.
He said nice things to us.
That's nice.
Do I think he's the best of us?
No.
Do I think he's the best we can do as president?
Absolutely not.
Do I think he's the best the Democrats can do?
Hell no.
If you got those two, though, are you going to sit it out?
Or are you going to go?
Oh, if it's Biden, Trump, look, for me, again, we survived a Trump administration.
Would we survive another one?
Yes.
Yes.
I don't think there's any greater risk to America with him than with Biden.
And for people who are now going to attack me and say, what are you talking about?
Trump is like this crazy man.
Well, look, you know, as Patrick says, the data is the data.
Nobody was trying to kill us when Trump was president in a way that they're not now.
If anything, there's more hostility.
And you can have reasons for that any way you want.
I'm just saying, existentially, I'm not afraid of a Trump presidency.
Existentially, I'm not afraid of another Biden presidency because unlike many people in America, I believe that the country is much stronger than any individual leader.
We survived the Russia thing.
We survived January 6th.
We survived having Biden as a gaffe machine.
We survived Congress going after each other and doing nothing for the rest of us.
We survive these things.
Are we better for it?
No.
Should we be doing things differently?
Yes.
I think it happens.
I don't know when.
I don't even know why.
But, you know, in terms of who I'm going to vote for, I would really have to see where we are at that moment in time.
So you're open to Trump votes.
I am always open.
And I'll tell you this.
People say, oh, bullshit.
You've never voted for a Republican in your life.
Wrong.
And not only have I, the first vote I ever cast was for a Republican.
Who was that?
1988.
I'm a freshman in college.
Dukakis is running against George H.W. Bush.
Dukakis, honorable man, good man, one of the early victims of media savagery, by the way, with what they did with his wife.
But to me, he was too close to my father's story.
And it bothered me that if it's going to be him, then it should have been Pop.
I voted for Bush.
Was he the guy that they put in the tank and he just looked like a helmet that was like this big?
Yeah, it just was not a good thing.
But so I'm open.
Look, John McCain, okay, may rest in peace.
When he was running against Obama, I believed in him as a leader.
And look, people will talk about him personally and all these things.
He lived through tremendous things.
Of course, there were going to be scars on him.
Of course, he had personal limitations and some eccentricities.
But he defined his own fate.
If it had stayed without the economy going down, he was a strong choice for keeping America safe.
When the economy happened, he had already sold himself out.
But I was very strongly supportive of him.
Chris, for you to even think about the two votes, you have four years of results with Trump, four years of results, three years of results with Biden.
data shows it's not even close and i think that's the part you know with with so i talked to a lot of guys in different places and we have a relationship and And I have a wide range of audience.
I like sports.
So sports liberals are like, dude, I watch your shit, but I don't agree with Japan.
I'm like, dude, I'm just talking about sports.
I'm just going to talk.
I like Hollywood and I'm freaking like I know hip-hop like from 1990 till 2003.
Yeah, that's there.
But I know hip-hop.
And I know some real bit more to get Big Daddy Kane in there.
I didn't come to Big Daddy until 1990.
Big Daddy Kane is strong.
Come get some, you bum.
You'd love it.
Yeah.
So for me, my range is I'm so interested in so many different topics.
But to me, I think sometimes the creative, the liberal side is like, oh, if there is anybody you can, if they find out where you live in your community, you voted for him, dude, your tires will be slashed every flipping day for a month straight.
And you know what kind of things they would do to you and that fear of losing that community.
I have no fear of losing that community.
They're not for me.
Chris, if you voted for Trump, you know what they would do to you?
They would torture you.
They would torture you.
Listen, I didn't say I would vote for Trump.
I'm saying you have to be open to the circumstances at the time.
And to me, the alternative is Joe.
Donald Trump, to me, has betrayed the trust and the standard of a leader for America.
And he has done it many times over.
And that's part of the result structure for me.
I can't just look at the economy and migration at the southern border.
This is a guy who has reinforced too many things that I think are destructive to human life.
So what's more?
So I would have to see where are we in the state of play at that time and what is he offering?
Has he changed it all?
But I got to be open, but I'm telling you, if he's depending on me to win, he's not in good shape.
If it was like if you're thinking about the risk of crossing the border and that guy, you know, build a wall and we're not going to let him build a wall.
And now Biden wants to build a wall because like almost every policy that they stop, they're bringing it back.
Like it's validated.
But the wall was always a distraction.
What made the difference under Trump was two things.
One, people believed they were going to have bad outcomes if they came to America with Trump.
And that was impactful in keeping them away.
Now, you can make the argument that that's not the message America should be sending out, but it was true.
Two was the deals that they cut with the home countries and with Mexico that Biden got rid of as soon as he came in to do that stupid thing that one administration does when it beats another, to erase the legacy as much as they can.
It was a huge mistake.
And what Trump didn't do, even though he had the political clout and numbers to do it, was do all these other things that CBP has been begging for, to change the rules, to change the processing capabilities, the housing capabilities.
Instead, it devolved into this bullshit sanctuary cities and the wall and the brown menace and the bad ombres.
And that's all cheap demagoguery that didn't fix it.
He could have fixed it and didn't.
The world is a shit show today because nobody fears our president.
And if we had another Biden, all the people that you want to do good for, they would get destroyed under another Biden because nobody fears nor respects Biden.
He could be a sweetheart of a guy.
I don't know.
But how do you think Trump would get things done when you know there's going to be an election right away that is a cantilever, right?
That balances it out.
So now he doesn't have Congress.
How's he going to get anything done?
Nobody's going to work with him.
Well, that's his job, though.
But he didn't do it the last time he was in there.
He couldn't get it.
But there's a reason for it because sometimes on your first term, you don't want to be too aggressive because you were concerned about your second election.
And Trump was suffering from a lack of aggression.
I would say sometimes you, he's a legacy guy.
You know, he's a legacy guy.
So for a guy that's a legacy guy, he doesn't want to be a one-term guy.
And don't forget about that one.
Right before he even got in, the fake Russia collusion that everybody was pushing, Chris CNN was pushing it too.
Like he came in with Russia, Russia.
It was just four years of he's compromised.
He's this.
How are you supposed to do your job when every single day, every freaking news media outlet is saying that you're a Russian asset?
I just have one question.
I have one question on Trump.
And you're talking to somebody who was diametrically opposed to even considering voting for him.
Years ago.
Now I got the Trump stamp on my lower back now.
But yeah, I'm definitely considering voting for Trump this time.
Not even a question.
The question is, though, how much can he really get done in just a one, four-year term this time?
Because it's not like it's a two-term president.
He had his four hiatus.
Now it's going to get done again.
I don't even know how much sense of confidence that that's what he wants.
Patrick says he's a legacy guy.
I would say, okay, maybe his own personal legacy of aggrandizement.
The guy's never been about anything bigger than himself in his entire life.
I agree with that.
He's never built anything that didn't have his name on it.
And he's never run anything well that didn't go straight into the ground.
So the guy's a little bit of a paper tiger for me in that regard.
Now you're saying, yeah, but compare him to the alternative.
Well, that's what the voters are going to do.
You know, am I looking at him as my personal best choice or the country's?
No.
Well, do I think there are better people in that party?
The problem that I think is happening, and it's valid, is there's this sort of like romantification of Trump because look at the alternative.
It's like if you're running against Biden, it's like, well, the good old days.
Yeah, I know, I'm with you, but it's about what your standard is.
You know, Patrick and you and me and Vinny and Tom, we're sitting here talking about we got to get back to values.
We got to get back to standards.
We got to back to Trump's not your guy.
Trump's not your guy.
Trump is the, here's the rule.
I'm going to break it.
I'm going to get away with it because I know the game and everybody does this.
So it's okay.
You know what's the great thing about data?
Again, first three years, pre-COVID, pre, the left did everything they could to get the, you know, instead of making China the enemy, they made him the enemy.
First three years, it was on fire.
No war, peace.
Things were good.
Of course, media destroyed America, dividing them against each other hardcore, left against right, left against right.
You know, Trump's the boogeyman.
Then COVID happened and they said, nope, Trump's the enemy.
Trump's the enemy.
Trump's the enemy.
And the people that took the vaccine, they got the vaccine quickly because of Trump.
But if he got it quick, come out of here and said, I would never take the vaccine that quickly.
Then went the party changed.
Oh, we should take the vaccine now.
It's like, what do you stand for?
You just stand for what the establishment told you.
Well, look, Trump did the same thing, right?
You are right.
Operation Warp Speed.
I live next to a guy who was a fundamental part of it.
It would not have happened had former President Trump not cleared so many of the obstacles and made the funding necessary and did exactly what our leaders should do in situations.
I don't know how this is normally done, but it's not going to be done this way now.
And I don't care what rules I'm breaking.
Let's just get this done.
It was extraordinary.
Then it became weaponized politically, and he had to get quiet about it.
It's the only time I've ever heard him booed is when he would say, I think you should take the vaccine.
And people would boo him.
Why?
It was weaponized by his own people, which doesn't make a lot of sense, but it does show, you know what it always showed to me?
It's not about Trump.
Okay.
The grievance, the animus that he is a symbol of, that he motivates and that he says, I will fight for you.
I'm your guy.
That allows people to say, look, I don't want to be this guy except for the money, but he is for me and he's against what I fear most.
It's the only time you saw that that's truly the dynamic.
It's not Trump.
Trump didn't start the fire.
Trump didn't create this.
Trump recognized it.
He recognized it.
That's right.
Trump recognized it and he used it.
And the only time you saw it was on the vaccine, where when those people, no, I don't trust government.
I don't trust.
Now you're not my guy anymore.
You became an instrument of what I'm worried about.
I boo you.
It's the only time it's ever happened because it's the only time he went against his read on what those people were going to want.
So again, I'm with you on the data.
But I'll tell you where people are.
You've got to believe that somebody can give you the same policies that you want and get more of them done than Trump.
And this is personal with you and Trump clearly.
Obviously, I totally get it.
If anyone did anything to disrespect my family, I'd have a hard time voting for them.
But where Pat is absolutely right, you talked about this two podcasts ago.
Trump is not the enemy.
I think we've all been fed this thing of lies where he's the enemy.
He's against America.
He's anti-American.
He's in bed with Russia.
And it turned out that was actually false.
Yeah, I don't believe, and I never believed he was in bed with Russia.
What I believed, and I still believe, is that investigation was a waste of time.
Ab initio.
Oh, that's not what you were saying when you were at CNN.
Yes, it was.
Go take a look.
But you still covered it.
That's the job.
You've got a president who's under investigation by a special prosecutor.
You're not going to ignore it unless you're Fox and even they had to do some of it.
What I said from the beginning, and what has always been true is his campaign did stupid things that they shouldn't have done, that guys who are in that business know not to do when it comes to who they talk to, who wants to help them, and what kind of meetings they take.
That is considered collusion as a behavior, not a crime.
Collusion is not a crime.
Conspiracy is.
They were nowhere near conspiracy.
Donald Trump was never, in my estimation, anything like compromised by Russia.
Did he stupidly say, WikiLeaks, do more of it, and Russian troll farms, do this and do that?
And when you say shit like that, are you baiting a media that is desperate to come after you?
Yes.
And you're going to get what you ask for with the media when it comes to negativity.
And that was always true.
And those behaviors were wrong.
Should they have been investigated criminally that way and to that degree?
No.
Was the dossier being paid for ultimately by Hillary's team?
Should that have been known sooner?
Yes.
Was all of it about the dossier?
No.
All of it was not about the dossier.
Chris, I know we got to run.
I have one last question for you.
I'll get the pee.
Trump wins.
Let's go to this magical, you know, January 20th, 2025.
Trump wins.
He's the new president.
You know, again, remix vibe.
How ugly will it get with the media, especially the CNNs, MSNBCs of the world, mainstream media, knowing what you know, you know, taking sort of a bird's eye?
Not as bad as you think.
Okay, tell us why.
Look, even all I control is my voice within my show on NewsNation.
Okay.
I don't have any control over NewsNation.
I control what comes out of my face on NewsNation and on my podcast and on your podcast.
I would give him a fair shot.
Why?
Because the country needs him now.
If he's in the position, if the country's put him in that position, then he's got to get it.
Are they going to come after him?
Yeah, if they have an opportunity.
Will people be a little sick of it?
And will that matter?
Yes.
If it doesn't rate and resonate, they won't do it as much.
Will the Democrats, if they have the authority, because we got to see what happens in the election, would they go after him anew?
I don't think so.
So you're saying the third time's the charm for Trump?
I don't know that it's the charm.
I think that he has a very legitimate chance of winning, which to me is a sad commentary about the GOP, because you should be able to beat Biden.
Based on Biden's not making a case for himself and not defending propositions that are being used against him, which is what an election is about, right?
You don't tell me your story, somebody else will, and you won't like the ending.
They should be able to do better than Trump.
The Republicans, based on policy and principle, should be able to do better than Trump.
But people get what they want.
And I think he's very well positioned, even with all the litigation, because people don't believe in the system that's prosecuting him.
But if he gets elected, I give him a fair shot.
I would invite him on the show.
I'd cover his administration, and I would do a case-by-case moving forward, not what we lived through in the past.
It's not my job.
By the way, for those of you watching this, I trust at one point you hated what Chris said.
You love what Chris said.
You probably hated what I said.
You love what I said.
You hated what Vinny said.
You love what Vinny said.
And the list goes on for everybody else here.
I don't care.
I like these conversations.
Period.
I love them.
I love these conversations.
These are my favorite conversations because to me, you're not the, you know, when we talk, yeah, we're not going to agree.
Some of the best podcasts you and I have ever done is not recorded.
It's on a phone call.
I would just talk.
It's the best conversations because it's just you let a rip.
But that, maybe it's being Armenian, maybe it's being Assyrian, maybe it's being Persian.
Like we like a good argument, a good debate, but then we want to go have food together and sit down and talk and do all that stuff.
I think there's some similarities to that with, you know, the Italian side.
But I believe what you're about.
See, we've made it all about the conflict where if you disagree, there's got to be a problem.
Like we're Jets versus Dolphin fans.
You know, that's sports.
Leave it there.
Nothing gets better in business if you can't be open to dissent.
I mean, you've been making so much success, so much in your young life.
It's not because you've been closed off to anybody who doesn't agree with you.
It's the opposite, which is one of your main talents.
We've gotten away from that and it's killing us, especially in a democracy, especially in America.
My father did a debate tour with Newt Gingrich.
And, you know, my father may rest in peace.
You know, he would, you know, look, Newt's had his issues in life and everybody does.
But they did not agree.
But he respected where Newt was coming from on his positions and why he understood the dynamics the way he did.
And they would have arguments and they would argue and it would get hot because they were disagreeing about things that both people believed.
If the outcome goes the way you go, this is a problem for something I care about.
But it wasn't, you're a bad guy.
It's that's a bad idea.
Like it's like a bad idea being a Jets fan these days.
Pretty bad idea.
Always.
Unless you are a self-loather who is addicted to grievance.
And then you're going to be dead.
And that's why they had any Jets fans at all.
But look, that's why I think you're so successful.
One, you are one of the few brand guys who's open to people who are off-brand, which is unusual in the space.
But I also think it's the future of the space.
And you respect the disagreement, which is the ultimate sign of strength.
What do you know in any situation when you're going at somebody about anything?
When they switch from that thing to you, oh, Pat, you know, you're a fucking idiot for saying that.
Okay, the debate's over.
You know, you no longer have anything to say to me.
So I am now your problem.
You know, to your point, is Trump the problem?
No.
No, he is not the problem.
Is he harnessing the problem?
Yes, that's a matter of opinion.
Now you have your argument.
That's great.
We're not a Trump away.
We're not an anti-Trump away from being in a better place.
We got way deeper concerns.
That's true.
But I think that this is the success.
And I am always a call away.
Why?
Because I believe in you.
You're a quality guy.
I know you'd be a call away for me.
Doesn't matter what you like and what you disagree with on this level.
You know, you see something with me and my son and you're like, oh man, I don't know why you're allowing that.
That matters.
Let's talk about it.
I respect you as a father.
I like the way, you know, your son dropped off my wife and one of my kids right at the airport.
And then we went with you and Dylan.
Dylan wanted to be around you.
Yeah.
No, I just, the way you made him wait and the, I pay attention to all of that stuff.
Family stuff is very important to me.
Again, this whole thing, when I message you, I'm like, I got a lot of respect for your father.
I got a lot of respect for your father, and I want to get to know the family a little bit more.
And then it led into the relationship that was a lot of fun.
You would have loved him.
I think I would have.
You would have loved him.
You would have been like, Mario, you can't believe that these policies are going to get you to this place.
And he would say, they are the only policies that can get us to this place.
They are the only policies that ever happened.
And you'd be like, no, this didn't work here.
This didn't work there.
And he would say, yeah, but here's why.
And here's why.
And we should have done it this way.
And it should have been that way.
When is his birthday?
And you would have done it forever.
June, 1932.
June, what month?
What 15th?
Interesting.
Okay.
Well, gang, one thing for you guys to be thinking about, if you're going to be in Art Basil next week, let us know.
We may have something going on at the Soho House rooftop.
It is by invitation only, but do message us to find out who you are, what you're doing, what your background is.
We may do something together.
And Vinny's got something he's about to review.
I interviewed you.
Chris, you saw it before we walked in.
I interviewed none other because we met Bill Clinton in New York.
He got me a sit-down with Hillary Clinton.
It just went live a little while ago.
Rob, could you put the link?
If you guys want to see a seat, like she reveals a lot.
It's a very, very, very good interview.
Just click on the link.
You don't believe that you were conflicted out of that interview because of your relationship with the former secretary?
I mean, I guess people are going to have to watch the interview.
They're going to have to watch.
But I mean, we go back.
There's a lot of pain.
There's a lot of memory and emotional pain that I think you probably should have disclosed before letting people think you were going to be a fair broker sitting across from Hillary.
