Heated Debate On Systemic Racism w/ Roland Martin | PBD Podcast | Ep. 233
PBD Podcast Episode 233. In this episode, Patrick Bet-David is joined by Roland Martin and Vincent Oshana. Roland Sebastian Martin is an American journalist. He was a commentator for TV One, the host of News One Now, and Washington on Watch With Roland S. Martin.
0:00 - Start
4:43 - Roland Martin calls out cable news anchors
18:35 - Roland Martin's view on republicans
32:31 - Heated CRT Debate
55:34 - Are democrats or republicans for defunding the police?
1:29:46 - Which state handled covid the best?
1:48:37 - Rection to Tyre Nichols being killed by 5 cops
2:12:23 - Roland Martin on the 2024 election
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Patrick Bet-David is the founder and CEO of Valuetainment Media. He is the author of the #1 Wall Street Journal bestseller Your Next Five Moves (Simon & Schuster) and a father of 2 boys and 2 girls. He currently resides in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida.
This world of entrepreneurs, we can't no value to hate it.
I be running, homie, look what I become.
I'm the one.
Our guest today, Roland Martin, American journalist, and he's got a show called Roland Martin Unfiltered.
And he's known to be the sweetest guy you'll ever meet.
Specifically on YouTube, interviews, just very gentle, kind.
My mom says that.
Have you always been this sweet?
Of course.
Always.
My mom says that.
My dad says it.
Is it just too many more?
Until I get pissed off.
Until I get pissed off.
Until folks lie to me on the air, and the other side comes out.
So let me ask you: how long have you been like this?
Like at what point were you the kid that argued every point?
Were you like, Linda, Linda, Linda, you don't understand.
Like, were you that person from day one?
Because it was always the pursuit of truth.
And so, I mean, I remember being in the well, it was a couple of things.
I was probably in the third grade.
Yeah.
Third or fourth grade.
I remember at an elementary school, it was a kindergarten teacher who these girls said, I said something to them that I never said.
So they go to him, they complain.
And so we had this huge, it was a Vanguard magnet program with this huge basketball game.
So it was like the Vanguard program versus the regular school.
It was like the biggest game of the year.
And the guy was like, oh, he said, well, I'm believing them.
So you have to apologize or you're not going to play in the game.
I guess I ain't playing the game.
So I literally sat there.
And mind you, this is like the biggest game of the year.
It's like a major deal.
So my brother's, he's in the Vanguard program and I'm dressed and everything.
So I sat there for three periods.
I didn't move.
I'm like, dude, I just said.
How old are you?
How old are you at this time?
I was in the, that was either third or fourth grade.
Probably was, it was probably, it was fourth grade.
And I was like, I'm about nine years old.
I was like, I'm not moving.
I didn't say it.
So my whole deal is, you know, some people be like, dude, just say I'm sorry.
So you can play in the game.
No, I didn't say it.
So therefore, I'm not going to sit here and apologize.
Now, when I was in 12th grade government class, it was a trip with Miss Joseph.
She's teaching and she says, a president can't serve more than eight years.
I said, it's not true.
And she's like, what do you mean?
That's simply not true.
I said, we have empirical data that shows that.
I said, Lyndon Baines Johnson took over as president on November 22nd, 1963.
He announced he, of course, ran in 64.
He chose not to run in 68.
I said, it's very clear.
You could serve more than eight years.
And so we argue back.
I said, I'm sorry.
I said, I know you think that you are right.
I said, but it's right here.
Like, what are you talking about?
And so we had a test and I wouldn't.
And so I wrote on the test and then she marked it wrong.
I'm like, look, you're wrong.
And so then we had this follow-up exam.
We had a follow-up quiz.
And I think I probably had like an average of like 102 in this class for extra credit and stuff.
And I was like, you know what?
I said, I'm just going to mark zero on my quiz.
I said, in protest, and what?
It's going to drop my grade down to 101.5?
And man, she was like, she was livid.
And I said, look, I get it.
You don't want to be wrong, but the facts are clear.
JFK assassinated November 22nd.
LBJ becomes president.
He runs in 64.
He declines in 68.
I said, do the math.
That's more than eight years.
And so she was like upset.
And so that's the thing for me.
My whole deal is, that's why I hate when I, even when I was on the CNN, I hate him.
Would say, people, someone would say something, and I'm like, they lying.
And they would stand there and they would just, you know.
Roland, when's the last time?
What was the last year you were wrong?
Was it 80s?
Was it 90s?
If it's happened, no, no, I'm just curious.
Man, it's been a long, long time.
Come on, man.
No, because I mean, I mean, rolling.
No, no, I'm seriously.
I'm talking about I am.
And if I, if I say something, I said something that was incorrect on the air the other day, we came in from the break.
I said, live it correct information I gave you.
It's like, boom, because here's the philosophy.
Here's the philosophy.
If you're driving down the street or if you're watching and somebody says something and no one says anything, you go, that must be correct.
No one says anything.
So what happens is, especially in cable news or even on broadcast news, they will sit there and they will just let people say stuff and just slide.
And I'm sitting there going, so we just going to sit here and just let that lie just stand.
And then it's kind of like, okay, now we have time.
No, that was a lie.
And then what they'll do is, then I hate this.
Well, we'll come back and fact check the next day.
No, no, no.
You fact check in the moment.
But the problem is, most of these people who are television anchors, they are not smart.
They're not well read.
And they rely on a producer to have to fact check them, provide them facts.
Whereas for me, no, we're going to fact check in real time.
Like right now.
You say something.
And my whole deal is you're talking.
I'm sitting there on my iPad.
I remember Shermichael Singleton was working with the Big Carson campaign.
He goes, No, Roland, Ben Carson has an HBCU plan.
I'm like, no, he doesn't.
He's like, I guarantee you.
I'm like, you know what, Shermicha?
I said, why don't you make your point?
And I'm going to sit over here and go to his website.
So go ahead and finish your point.
So he's talking.
I'm sitting there.
I'm like, are you done?
And I had this phrase.
Shelly was my director.
I would go.
And so anytime my audience knew when I say, Shelly, go to my iPad, somebody's about, I'm about to get in somebody's ass.
It's about to happen right now.
And I went, Shelly, go to my iPad.
Sure, Michael, this is his website.
This is the search box, HBCU.
Click.
Do you see any like it's on the screen?
He's sitting there.
It's like, oh, God.
And I'm just, and I'm killing them.
And I'm like, dude, you, I said, and we went to the break.
I said, Shermichael, never ever go on the air and be emphatic with something if you had not checked before you said it.
And to this day, he's gotten other television.
He thanks me because I put him on TV first.
He said, you taught me a valuable lesson.
He said, you handed my ass to him.
I said, because you didn't fact check before it came out of your mouth.
Yeah.
I mean, listen, you see that happen on a lot.
And, you know, I'd love to see a system where during elections.
So we did this one debate one time where we had this guy who was pro, she was from Normal.
She was the director of Normal to legalize marijuana.
And the other guy was a Navy intelligence guy, captain.
And they came and we were doing this sit-down five, six years ago.
And the way we did it, which was fascinating, is every time a person gave a fact or a statement with data, the bottom would say, eh, and then it would show red or it would say green.
Yes, this is exactly what there you go.
I would love a format that both candidates, Republican, Democrat, every time they say something, a fact check.
We should have the technology for people to be able to do that today.
Here's the deal, though, but you don't have to actually wait for them to say yes or no to that because you got these debates.
You just do it.
No, you just do it.
Yeah.
And so why do you think CNN, NBC, Fox?
Why do you think these guys don't do it?
Well, because it's an inside game.
It's an inside game.
What do you mean?
Well, the game is you like the invitation.
You want to invite them back.
So you want to make them happy.
And so you don't want to tick them off.
And so the show is like, oh, no.
So we're going to go soft, if you will, as opposed to, you know, both sides do that.
Go hard.
Right.
So you take, so September, this is 20, September 21.
I'm on ABC News this week, and Chris Christie gave his big speech at the Reagan Library.
You know, we need to move on from Trump, whatever.
So we're sitting there.
And again, I'm just a guest.
I'm not a contributor.
The other three people are contributors.
George Stephanopoulos is sitting right there.
And so I'm like, during the break, they said, oh, we're going to talk about Chris Christie's speech.
And I forgot the sister.
She said, you sure we're going to talk about that to George?
And he goes, yeah.
No, I'm not saying anything.
Inside, I'm like, oh, hell yes.
Bring this speech up.
Please bring this speech up.
So it comes up.
And so George talks and Chris is talking.
And he's, you know, taking his very high and mighty stance.
And I'm sitting there.
And if you're like, you go back and watch it, I'm waiting.
Because see, this is what I teach people.
You can't be too eager to jump in.
So you have to let it come to you.
So he talks and they talk back and forth.
And then she talks and then she talks.
And then George gets to me and I make my and I turn to Chris Christie and I say, you have to accept the responsibility you played in creating that man.
And I, and I just went right at him.
And he's like, you know, I ran against him in 2016, but you debate prepped him in 2020 and you support.
He was, I'm talking about he turns red.
Rolling mad.
To be fair, I mean, to be fair, like this is like the one thing about politics.
You saw Kamala calling out Biden immediately.
And then boom, she's the VP.
Yes.
George H.W. Bush called Reagan's economic policies voodoo economic.
And then boom.
Right.
Yes.
But again, though, but you accept the fact that you did it.
So if you remember, remember, she's totally fine.
Right.
She called him out.
She called him out and later became VP.
My problem with Christie was you're giving this huge speech like he was this problem.
And I'm sitting there going, yes, but you created the monster.
So it's sort of like you can't complain about the monster when you create, when you help create the monster, when there was an option to say, I have convictions, morals, principles, and values.
I simply cannot stand with a known liar.
And what I said is, you chose politics and power over principles and patriotism.
Happens on both sides.
Right.
I never said it doesn't.
The point is, you have to be willing to actually say it.
So when somebody, so if you say, okay, I was very much against this here, now I'm for it.
Okay, but and then if it blows up, don't try, then don't try to come back and go, well, I mean, I knew this thing was going to blow up.
No, You didn't stand on principle.
And I think that's a huge problem today when we look at not just politics, but also business.
When we have people, and I'm going back to the whole point about when I was in the kindergarten, if you have to be willing to stand on truth, knowing it's going to cost you.
And when you can accept that, to me, this is just me.
Yeah.
I'm going to sleep a lot better because I'm simply not going to just go along to get along.
If I actually have conviction that this person is not it, I don't care what they do and what they promise.
I can't stand with you.
Right.
Not going to happen.
So, okay, so that's good that you're saying that because I like stats.
I like data, okay, to go through some data.
And we'll cover some of that because I truly want to get your opinion.
My ideal situation would be to have a panel of folks from both sides to debate and have a conversation together civilly.
I think that's the way where the audience wins, where you're able to say, here's what I believe.
The other person says what I believe.
And then there is the facts.
I got new twist for you.
Here's a not both sides.
What do you mean both?
How about you have a debate?
See, again, though, see, this is where the this is because again, I lived it.
See, when it's both sides, because when I say I lived it, they would speak the truth in the green room.
But when they go on the air, what happens is their side, the tribes are watching.
So they defend the tribe versus the issue.
So here's why I told CNN, why don't we have some debates where you actually have two Republicans who disagree on the issue?
That way you take party out.
Now becomes the issue.
The problem today, in most debates, we're not debating the issue.
We're debating the sides.
When you debate the issue, it's not you're Democrat, you're Republican, you're left, you're right, you're blue, you're red.
No, no, no.
What's the issue?
And so when people have said to me, they're like, I've never self-identified as a Democrat or Republican.
I refuse.
Have I voted for Republicans than Democrats?
Yes.
Because I look at, what's this issue?
I'm a huge school choice person.
Oh, I've had some Democrats who have, who, and I'm like, y'all want to swing?
Let's swing.
And the Republicans are going, well, man, you stand with us on this issue.
I'm like, no, I don't stand with you in terms of the party on the issue.
I stand with the issue.
But generally, that's the problem we have today, but we don't discuss the issue.
Well, who do you think is more united?
You think Democrats are more united with each other?
They may disagree behind closed doors, but they're united with each other.
You think Republicans are more united with each other?
Because Republicans, here's why.
The Democratic tent is actually a big tent.
Like you literally have conservative Democrats, moderate Democrats.
You got progressive, then you got far-left Democrats.
You look at ain't that many moderate Republicans, to be truth.
I'm talking about, they're basically non-existent in Congress.
So you're either right or far right.
So the Republicans, it's a lot easier when they're debating issues because you cannot be a liberal Republican.
Senator Edward Brooke, the first African-American elector since Reconstruction to the United States Senate, was a liberal Republican from Massachusetts.
There is no way today he could ever be elected.
Not going to happen.
In fact, if you actually look at, hell, Ronald Reagan on a lot of stuff on Amnesty and a separate, it'll be a little hard for Reagan.
So Republicans are a lot easier because from an ideological standpoint, it's pretty much right, far, right?
That's why in the Democratic caucus, when you look at when these issues come up, it's a lot harder to bring them together to get the 218 because you got these different, you got 20 over here, you got 10 over here, you got, and so it's a lot harder.
So absolutely it's Republicans.
Okay, so let's do issues.
How about let's just go on issues with today.
What issues do you see Republicans presenting that you agree with to specific, specific issue is to African Americans?
That's the main topic I want to hear.
What issues do you see where Republicans come up with to say, you know what, I actually like that idea.
And what do you see the left coming up, Democrats coming up with that you like?
More Republicans are willing to support the idea of school choice than Democrats because your teachers unions are largely opposed to the expansion of school choice.
And they are a significant donor to the Democratic Party.
The problem I have when I'm standing with Republicans, I then go, but what's your motivation?
In many cases, it's to destroy the unions.
It ain't about the kids.
So I've stood in front of folks and I said, okay, same thing with the expansion of the voucher programs.
I go, okay, who do y'all care about?
Do you care about the expansion of voucher programs to truly help the kids who need it, who are in the worst schools?
Or are you actually trying to help largely white suburban parents get extra money to afford to go to private schools?
And I've stood at conferences and said that, and the people in the room are like, damn, this is the keynote.
I'm like, yes.
Because for me, it's for those kids who are actually in the worst schools.
So even though we will agree on that policy, like I had a woman who called me from Texas, she calls Dr. Steve Perry.
So he's like, I'm not from Texas, but my boy Roland is, born and raised in Texas.
And so we get on the phone.
And so she's like, we're trying to mobilize black and Hispanic parents, you know, around the expansion of the vouchers program.
And so she's talking, and Steve are to give me her name.
And so she's just talking, talking, talking.
And I'm like, you're going to lose.
She's like, what do you mean?
I said, let me ask you a question.
You care about black and Hispanic kids on the issue.
She's like, absolutely.
I said, why is your board all white?
I said, in fact, let me ask you this question.
Can you tell me the top 10 highest performing black and Hispanic-led charter schools in San Antonio, Houston, Dallas?
Take your pick.
She got quiet.
I said, but you're calling me because you want to mobilize Hispanic and black parents on this issue to get this voucher program passed.
And you don't even know who the black and Latino top charter schools are.
So how can you, I said, so you want their voices, but you don't even know them.
And she just froze.
And again, I froze her because, again, you're proving to me that you're not legit on this.
Now, if you go on the Democratic side, where do I stand with Democrats?
Absolutely, when it comes to the issue of voter protection and voting in this country.
It is the Republican playbook.
Voter suppression is no doubt.
The closing of polling locations, making it difficult.
I mean, they've literally said it publicly that, I mean, the Speaker of the House in Georgia said, if we expand ballot drop boxes and allow folks to vote absentee without an excuse, we will lose.
Now, my whole deal is, how can you walk around with troops and go, oh, democracy, and they're fighting for our values and it's the right to vote?
No, every politician should want everybody to vote.
And you don't create obstacles.
That is the biggest one where I stand against Republicans.
I don't know about that, but you know what I would say.
You can break it down to issues.
No, but what I would say with that to you is somebody can come back and say, well, Roland, how about the fact that Democrats don't care about the border?
Because the more people come from the border, they tend to vote more for Democrats.
So it's better for them to not talk about the border.
First of all, that assumes that somebody who's crossing the border is a registered voter when they're not.
Because here's the deal.
But the Democrats want them to be able to vote and to say they also have a voice.
Should they be able to vote?
But the reality is, see, now what you've done is you've now flipped it to another issue, which is the border.
What I'm talking about is what is undeniable when it comes to the.
No, I didn't flip it.
No, I didn't flip it.
No, no, no.
Because that didn't do the vote.
The border.
I didn't flip it.
I didn't flip it.
I asked the question from you, what policies on the right do you agree with?
What policies on the left?
Right.
And you brought up voting to say that the Republicans in Georgia want to do this.
Then I brought up the fact that I didn't bring up border.
I'm bringing border to say that those people who come across the border, many times they're going to vote left and they're going to vote right.
But see, but that's actually a wrong assumption because I'm from Texas and we see what actually happens is what you have is if you're talking about companies.
You're saying people that come across the border vote Republican?
What I'm telling you is when you look at who is coming across the border, that's fine.
I run an insurance company with 40,000 agents, 54% Hispanic.
I lived in L.A. 24 years.
And here's the question.
No, no, no.
But you said, but you said you live in L.A. Here's the fundamental problem that people refuse to recognize when you talk about Hispanic slash Latinos in America.
What percentage of Hispanic vote Republicans?
No, no, no.
First of all, follow me here.
Follow me here.
I know exactly what you're going to go on the Texas side.
No, no, no.
It's not just the Texas side.
The problem that we have in the country when we break down Hispanic slash Latinos, and the reason I'm saying Hispanic slash Latinos, is because around the country, you can't group everybody in the same category.
What you have is you might have a different philosophy if you're talking about Vince William Cuba in Florida compared to somebody who is Chicano.
Florida's true.
Yes, no, no, compared to Mexican Americans in Texas compared to Los Angeles.
And so what you also have is a much different focus.
All you have to do is just look up and see what percentage of Hispanic vote that's right.
No, no, can you pull it out?
No, no, no.
And what I'm saying, it's about 65, 35, 64 to 60.
Or someplace is 64.
So there you go.
But here's the deal, though.
If you're Republicans, you like that 35.
What you don't have for African Americans in the case, like black women who hates the Republican Party, the top two constituencies for African Americans, Democratic Party, are black women and black men.
So if you're running, 35, 40% is a damn good number.
Oh, stop it, Roland.
This is this, this.
It's not?
You're getting 65% or vote 64% right there.
Yes.
And what are you talking about?
And if you are a Republican or the Republican Party, you also have to ask yourself, what have you done to reach a community to get them to vote for you?
Hispanics?
Yes.
They're increasing on the Republican people.
Hold on.
Hold on.
You're saying increasing.
Of course.
Yes.
Why is it increasing?
Why is it increasing?
I'm asking you.
Because the policies are helping them out.
No, it's increasing also because you have a party that actually is not taking a more proactive focus in targeting that group.
If you never communicate with me or never reach out to me, guess what?
I'm going to go with who normally does.
And so that's the smart strategy, which is what I've actually said to Republicans for the longest.
If you never talk to black people and they never see you, guess what?
They ain't going to never vote for you.
By the way, I don't disagree with that.
I think if you want someone's vote, you got to go talk to them.
You got to see it.
And what they've done is in the last 10 years, especially in the last eight years, they've actually made a much, much more concerted effort to target Hispanics in the United States.
Do you think Democrats care about blacks more than Republicans do?
Oh, absolutely.
Really?
I can't.
Let me tell you.
Define care.
Here's the first thing.
Define care.
I have to first be willing to even talk to you.
Republicans, by and large, they want to avoid black people.
A group of black Republicans in Illinois had a meeting with the state Republican Party.
And they laid out: hey, there are ways that we as a party can reach out to African Americans in Illinois, in Chicago.
They finished their presentation.
This is the first statement that's made.
Guys, look, we're not going to support welfare.
Black Republicans went.
Who the hell brought up welfare?
It wasn't even our proposal.
The black Republicans were insulted at this group of white Republicans, automatically went to welfare and they said, we didn't bring up welfare.
Why is that the one thing you brought up?
What is the problem?
Which community are you talking about?
Where was this at?
Illinois.
Okay.
And so what I'm saying is.
And you're saying Illinois Democrats have done good for blacks in Illinois?
No, no, that's not what your question was.
The question was: this here, in terms of who is reaching out to him.
I want it when Mitch McConnell's book came out.
I'm on the Tom Jonah Morning Show.
This is the largest black morning show in the country before he retired.
And we're sitting here, and so I get to call one of Book of Monkey, no problem.
Then all of a sudden, yeah, Mitch is not going to come on the show.
Okay, he's discussing this book.
Why not?
This is the largest show targeting African Americans.
I can tell you, I've had open invitations to Republicans come on the show.
When Alan West was in Congress, I told him about it.
Alan was like, Are you serious?
Alan tells his press secretary.
Alan would show up.
No, no, he was on the show.
How long did he come to show?
Well, not always.
Because I called him live on the air one day.
But I don't know if you're respectful to him or not.
No, Alan will show up anywhere.
No, no, no.
Alan, well, right.
Well, not always.
But no, it was respectful.
He's a gamer, but not afraid.
Right.
But not always.
I'm trying to tell you.
Not always.
Yeah, he may have a schedule.
You're right.
Not always.
No, no.
Well, I caught him live on the air.
So Alan's on, and I tell him that Alan goes, Are you serious?
I said, Yes.
I said, We have an open invitation.
I said, to the entire Republican caucus.
He goes, tells his press secretary, send a note out to the whole caucus.
Hey, look, you should come on this show.
It's important, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Two.
And the reason, other than Alan, the reason it was two, one was a Republican from Texas, a Texas A ⁇ M graduate.
That's why he came on.
The other one was Pete Olson from Texas, who came on as well, out of Houston.
And so what happens is they avoid, in many ways, talking to African Americans.
I'm never going to be able even to listen to you if you don't even talk to me.
And if you ever talk to me, and I'm talking, and I've had long conversations.
I've known black Republicans my entire life.
The frustration they have, you go back to Jackie Robinson and Nixon in 1960.
The frustration that they have is here they are talking about black conservative and being Republican and the pushback and the hell they get from their own.
I'm talking about we've had like serious conversations and we're talking about individuals who have been cabinet secretaries, who have been in many layers, who are millionaires, who are donors, and they express how it drives them crazy when they do it.
That was Michael Williams, who worked in the Reagan Bush administration, very good friend of mine.
He was going to have a fundraiser at his house.
And there was a guy running for Congress against Martin Frost in Texas, and he was campaigning.
He brought J.C. Watts in and everything.
And at the time, these black church burnings.
And so Michael calls him up, and Michael says, Hey, I think the candidates should release a statement with regards to these churches, these burning black churches.
And they go, no, no, we're not going to do that.
That's pandering.
Michael said, I'm sorry, wait a minute.
But y'all brought Congressman J.C. Watts in to tour with you to black churches on Sunday.
He's like, what the hell do you call that?
So Michael's wife, Donna, Donna said, because they wait, but a fundraiser at Michael and Donna's house.
Donna said, ain't no man who's unwilling to speak against the burning of black churches.
Welcome in my house.
You let them know.
No statement.
He will not step foot in this house for a fundraiser.
You still haven't answered my question for you.
No, no, I'm laying out to you examples.
Republicans won't even talk.
So therefore, the only place, the only place who wasn't talked to you is Democrats.
And that's one reason why Republicans have largely lost.
So that is your, okay, so let's say that's true.
Let's say that.
No, no, no, it's not.
For you, it is.
I've been black.
Hold up.
I've been black for 54 years, and I have spent, I have run black-owned media outlets getting Republicans to even talk to black people, show up at forums.
My parents were founders of a city club.
I'm telling you, not my opinion, what I've literally experienced and what black Republicans and even what I had conversations about has been white Republicans.
But I got a follow-up for you.
So in other words, in other words, Democrats are only ones that had the votes of blacks since 1964, okay?
88% was 94% in 64.
And it's now 88%, 86%, 90%, right?
Yep.
So if blacks have had, if Democrats have had that vote since 64, that's 60 years, 59 years to be exact.
How come blacks haven't made major progress if Democrats care about blacks as much as well?
First of all, that's actually a flawed question because when you say haven't made major progress.
What kind of progress have they been made?
No, no, let me out of unpacking.
I would love to unpack that.
So when you look at what you're coming out of 1960s, then you go in 1970s, when you begin to see your first wave of black mayors across the country, Mayor and Berry in D.C., Maynard Jackson in Atlanta, Coleman Young in Detroit.
Of course, previously you had Gary Hatcher in Gary, Indiana.
What you saw for the first time was African Americans being able to access economic capital in this country.
Maynard Jackson gets elected in 73.
African Americans were receiving 0.0012% of all city contracts in Atlanta.
I didn't say 1%.
I didn't say 0.5%.
I didn't say 0.12%, 0.0012% of all city contracts.
Maynard Jackson comes in.
He says ain't going to happen.
Not when you have a city that the significant number of African Americans.
The reason Atlanta is called the black Mecca today, because economically, you're part of that particular process.
When you talk about Prince George's County being called today the richest black county in the country based upon home values, a lot of that is because of, again, contracting opportunities that came with Mayor and Berry was mayor and then coming out of that.
Now, what you have, when you're talking about the black community, when you're looking at overall, you have to look at the fact of the matter is this here.
African Americans have been technically fully free Americans for only 53 years.
53.
64 Civil Rights Act, 65 Voting Rights Act, 68 Fair Housing Act, and you still were dealing with being locked out.
When you look at, look, it comes to money.
If you're not having a money conversation in America, you ain't having a real conversation.
And so when you talk about 400 plus years and you're only being technically free 53 years and you have been locked out consistently out of corporate America, I have actually met, which is sad, individuals who were the first African Americans to ever work at major companies and they got there in 72, 73, 75, 78.
You're like, what the heck?
So when you've been locked out economically, which has an impact on every single factor, place in America, housing, health, education, then you see why where we are today.
But has there been progress?
Yes.
Has there been enough progress?
No.
Roland, so if I can finish my question.
Yep.
Okay.
I'll give you, I'll let you go, but you got to let me finish my question.
Go ahead.
Okay.
So if we have a leadership team running an insurance company for five years and the company isn't growing, you're going to sit there and say, okay, cool.
Hey, you know what?
You guys don't go talk to the employees.
We do.
Great.
That doesn't mean you're good to the employees.
That just means you're going out there to talk to the employees and brag about the fact that you're talking to the employees.
Let's give them five more years.
Let's give them 10 more years.
Let's give them 20 more years.
Let's give them 53 years.
Fast forward today, if you can pull up this article, you're a data guy.
27 of the top 30 crime-ridden cities in America ran by Democrats.
If they are all about blacks, why are their policies ruining great communities?
Question for you.
Pull it back up.
Yeah.
What's the root cause of it?
What is it?
I'm asking you.
No, no, no.
You raise it up.
No, no, no.
You said 27 of the top 30 crime risk issues.
You're the ex-run.
No, Here's the deal, though.
No, no, no.
If you're going to ask a question, what I need you to do is I need you to then go, okay, what actually, looking at those communities, what created, what actually happened in those areas?
You brought up Chicago, lived there six years.
What is it?
You tell us.
No, no, no, no.
See, here's the deal, though.
I'm not statistics.
No, no, no, you're giving me a step.
No, you're giving stats.
This is 27 out of 30.
No, no, no.
What you like.
You like stats and facts.
I'm giving you stats, but here's the thing.
Nothing about what I said is not a fact.
No, no, no.
I'll read it.
But here's the failure.
As of June 22nd, John.
Okay, go to the top.
I'll read the entire article for you.
No, you don't have to.
That's what you're asking me.
No, that's not what I'm asking.
A new report shows that Democrat policies and cities and counties are responsible for rising crime rates in their otherwise red states.
What are the policies?
The Heritage Foundation today.
Whatever the policies are, is Democratic policies.
No, what are the policies?
Whatever the policies are, whatever, I don't need to know the policies.
Actually, you do.
No, I do not.
I don't need to know the policies.
All I need to know is, if you have.
Sir, say Democratic policies, but what other policies?
But wait a minute.
If I give you and I vote for you and you're supposed to take care of me, why are 27 out of top 30 cities in American crime ran by Democrats?
Why?
I will tell you.
First of all, it's where African Americans are living.
So let's bring up Chicago in particular.
What you have had in Chicago is you've had some of the most, the greatest racial segregation, not in 20 years, not in 30 years, but literally in 100 plus years.
Led by Democrats.
No, no, hold on.
Here's the deal, though.
Okay?
I will show you how Mississippi has the largest percentage of black people in America run by Republicans, broke as hell.
Explain that.
Explain me the highest, the highest, tell me when you have, no, hold on, wait, wait, wait, wait.
Don't spin it.
No, no, I'm not spinning.
No, no, don't spinning.
No, no, no.
Stay on topic.
Hold up, wait, wait, wait, wait.
Hold up.
Let's stay on topic.
We on topic is crime 27 out of 30.
Not economic.
Economic is a different story.
No, it's not.
But I agree with you that we need to get the financial situation.
No, no, no, no.
And you're making the mistake.
You went to Mississippi.
No, you're making the mistake you're making.
27 out of 30.
Here's the mistake you're making.
When you say crime, I just obliterated a black conservative my show on this whole issue.
When you say crime, you have to then say, okay, what is the what creates crime?
No, what creates crime?
What creates crime?
When people are not doing well financially.
What else?
You're surrounding an environment who you're around.
What else?
Pick up habits.
What else?
Bad policies.
No, no, no, no.
What else?
See, you know, see, you're jumping to policies.
But it is bad policies.
Wait a minute.
No, no, no.
You need a company.
No, no, no.
Hold on.
If I run a company and I'm the CEO of the company, if the company improves or doesn't improve, it's based on my policies.
I'm the head running the company, the department.
If it doesn't improve, it's because of me.
So what else would it be?
So let me lay it out to you again.
Go for it.
When you talk about what is the underpinning, the underpinning of crime.
Jonathan Bryan, founder of Operation Hope, this is what he said.
He said, show me a community where you've seen a riot with a credit score of 700 or higher.
The reality is when you talk about crime in this country, you're talking about economics, you're talking about education, you're talking about housing, you're talking about health.
Show me areas where you do not have high crime.
I'm going to show you areas that don't have the same, aren't as compacted.
That's first.
What you have is when you talk about crime in places, you then look at what are the numbers of people there, what are the pockets there, what are those communities, and how did those communities, how were they created literally, not over 20, 30 years, but literally over 50, 75, 100 years.
Now, that was Jim Crow.
How many years does it take to change?
What are you talking about?
How many years does it take to change when you have to create change?
First of all, you're talking about a black in America.
How long does it change?
When you have had, when you have had, okay, walk through 243 years of slavery, 92 years of Jim Crow, and then you get to 1970 when you are technically fully free, you can't act like all of that before did not impact.
The issues that you're having now have to do with not Democratic or Republican policies.
It has to do with literally white supremacy and Jim Crow in America.
We are still to act as if we are still not dealing with that.
How did housing discrimination take place in this country?
You know who created it?
The realtors.
They apologize for it.
Why are you going away from the question?
No, no, because here's the deal, though.
You don't want to deal with what creates crime areas.
You got to realize this.
Listen, I'm dealing with the real truth.
How they create it.
What you're dealing with is, oh, there are democratic areas.
What I'm dealing with is how do you deal with the historical reality of neighborhoods that simply can't be just, oh, we elected one person and then it's going to change, Roland.
It doesn't work that way.
Roland, I'm Middle Eastern, okay?
I was born in Iran 10 times.
My mother's a communist.
My dad's an imperialist.
We escape.
We go to Germany.
I lived at a refugee camp for two years, okay, with people who are Yugoslavian, Czech, Albanian at the time, and they're all leaving for a reason.
I come to the States, okay?
I'm a welfare baby.
I'm a food stamp baby.
Just letting you know my parents are divorced twice in 20 years.
I'm going to Glendale High School.
I have a lunch ticket.
I would sell because I don't have any money.
I'm 6'1 ⁇ , 130 pounds.
I should tell you the fact that we don't come from a lot of money.
One day, I'm in the school and my teacher starts talking about politics.
Up until that point, when I think about politics, all I think about is divorce because I think about my mom and dad arguing all the time.
I don't have a lot of pain linked to politics at the time.
And the teachers to obviously the teacher is going to be a Democrat because she's presenting how rich people are dispersed.
I'm like, okay, great.
Rich people are bad.
So I come to you.
I love it.
Obviously.
13 to 1.
That's the number.
That's the first time.
Dude, I had a whole lot of damn Republican teachers in my life.
Why like stats?
And the stats are 13 to 1 is Democrats to Republican.
You know the stats.
I come home and I say, mom, are we Republicans or Democrats?
And she said, we're Democrats.
I said, tell me why.
She says, because the Democrats are for the poor, Republicans are for the rich.
So my mom says.
You know what I told her?
I said, when I grow up, I want to be a Republican.
Not because I want to be a Republican.
I don't know what the policies are.
So first of all, who's actually for the rich and the poor?
Who?
Who is for the rich and the poor?
She said it.
She said, Republicans are for the rich.
Democrats are for the poor.
You say you love.
Was it true or not?
First of all, was it true or not?
Whether that's true.
Statistically, more rich people are on the Democratic side today than the people.
No, You say who are for, not who's rich, but who are they for the policy?
But, Roland, this is you.
You're smart.
No, your mom.
Your mom said.
Understand, but you're a smart guy, bro.
Listen, when I watch you, you're not a dummy.
You're very smart, okay?
So sometimes John Maxwell says something very important, very important that I completely held to myself.
And every time I break this, I don't like it.
He said, the moment you learn sales and you learn persuasion, okay?
The moment you learn the ability how to persuade you, me, we learn how to persuade.
He says, be very careful to not go one step above that, which is to manipulate just to win all arguments because you can.
You can win any argument if you want to.
You can play devil's advocate and flip the argument, play the Republican side, and you make one hell of an argument to be the Democrat because you can do that.
You have the ability, I have the ability as well.
I don't want to do that.
What I'm asking you right now is the following.
Results today.
Yes.
27 out of 30 cities that are ran by Democrats are the highest crime in America.
That's status.
What states are they in?
What are those states?
The states are different than the community.
New York, Chicago.
But that's not the thing.
The state is the community.
The city is where.
What are you talking about?
The city you're in is what you can touch.
Every year you come up and you say, reelect me.
I can tell.
State.
Listen, I am born and raised in Texas.
texas houston clinton park to act as if what no Oh, so.
No, no, no, wait, wait, Stop voting for mayor.
They're wasting time.
Because they can't do anything.
First of all, I didn't say that.
Let me finish my thought.
I am born and raised in Houston, Texas.
Grew up in Clinton Park neighborhood.
To act as if what happens in Austin does not have an impact on Houston is crazy.
You're making excuses now.
No, I'm not.
I'm making an excuses.
Okay, here's the deal though.
Here's the deal, though.
it's real easy to say it's excuses when I'm stating facts and the point I'm stating is that's not a fact That's just an opinion.
No, it's a fact.
The state of Texas significantly has an impact economically, educationally, on what happens in Houston.
That's a fact.
As somebody, as somebody who, as a kid, traveled with my mom to rallies and events with the Metropolitan Organization at the state capitol.
I understand.
Did you grow up rich?
Who?
Did you grow up rich?
No, my parents didn't go to college.
How are you rich then?
What do you mean, how?
How are you rich?
Here's how.
How's she going?
Here's how.
Because first and foremost, the neighborhood that I grew up in had, it was one of the first master plan communities by a hood.
What you had in my neighborhood was you had folks, first of all, I had mom and dad, one, who also, hell yeah, they're still married 56 years, who absolutely believed in education.
Now, what I recognize is, so for me, in my household, what my parents emphasized, never went to college.
Then my brother went to Texas A ⁇ M.
I went to Texas A ⁇ M. My sister went to Texas A ⁇ M.
And so that was our house.
What I recognize is that somebody who is next door or across the street or around the corner did not have the situation that I had.
Now, I totally get that.
What I don't do is be arrogant enough to say, well, I did this.
Why can't you?
Because I understand that not everyone has the exact same setup, the same situation.
What I'm talking about, and this is the, again, but why not give that story of inspiration to say you can get out of it?
First of all, you say, why not?
I'm sorry.
You clearly have never watched my show when what I talk about consistently are these very issues.
I don't sit here and go do doom and gloom.
Every single, first of all, every single Tuesday on my show, I feature actual black-owned businesses.
Every single Wednesday, I feature African-Americans who have tech companies.
I love that.
Friday, I actually feature something called Education Matters, folks who are in the education space, school choice.
I got HBCU Connect.
So I do all of that.
So, first, so, so, but, one second, one second.
But, you know why I said that?
Let me tell you why I said that.
Because you said, because you said, I'm not the one that says, look at me, I got out, so can you?
That's what you said.
No, Here's why I say that.
Because it is arrogant when, as an individual, I'm one, assuming everyone else's situation is the same.
That's first.
Two, it's also arrogant to then not actually study and look at how from a macro level.
See, you're describing a micro level.
There's always, you can always have that single individual or this person or that person or this family that's micro.
What I'm talking about is macro issues.
And what I'm saying is, when I look at communities, that's not micro, that's macro.
Even within the African American community, when you dealt with Jim Crow, you couldn't live anywhere else.
You literally could not live anywhere else.
Bottom line is that you were black and had money, and then you were black and broke.
You were literally living in the same neighborhood.
After Jim, after Jim Crow ends with integration, what then happened?
Those African Americans who were middle class, upper middle class, began to move away.
What then began to happen was you had areas where poverty increased even more so.
Why move away, though?
Why move away?
Because if you care about the community, why not stay there and change it?
Well, first of all, does anybody else move?
What do you mean?
Who the hell else don't move?
How do you think suburbs were created?
Oh, wait a minute.
What do you mean?
How do you think white flight was created?
So everybody else gets to move, but we can't move.
But if you act like you care about the community, guess what?
Hold on.
No, but I'll answer your question.
Do you know why?
Because when African Americans were living in black neighborhoods, they also had economically depressed housing values.
And the reality is they were not able to change it.
Help change it.
Are you serious?
Yeah, I am.
I am.
Okay, I'll give you an idea.
Here's the idea.
Are you familiar with Palmdale?
I'm going to need you to be drug tested.
Seriously.
Do you even know today, we've done the stories in Florida when somebody's black selling their house, the appraisers will come in and literally give them a value $100,000 to $300,000 less because they're black?
You know that that's actually happened, right?
You'll take one story and say that.
Oh, my God.
On how many occasions has that happened?
Are you serious?
Do you think a message like that?
Okay, why don't you go ahead and Google?
Why don't you go ahead and Google?
How many times has that happened?
No, no, no, the New York Times literally just did a story talking about the systemic racism that exists within housing appraisals.
This is a fundamental problem.
I'm trying, see, you're living in a different reality.
What progress are you making by saying that?
So progress.
So what you're doing.
I'm trying to end that.
Do you know how inherently, okay, hold on.
You say you're Middle Eastern, right?
You're trying to.
Hold on.
You said you're Middle Eastern.
I am.
Yes.
How would you feel?
How would you feel?
Yes.
If you're selling your home, you've got a home that you know.
Right.
You put upgrades in it and you know your home is worth $500,000.
And somebody comes into your home and they see your photos and they see your family.
And then they go back and they go $350,000.
You go, what the hell?
But wait, wait, one second.
One second, one second.
You can get people to convince it happening.
It's actually a problem.
Out of a thousand appraisals.
How many times has that happened?
You want to pull that up?
Do you want him to pull that up?
That's your world, though.
Out of a thousand appraisals, how many times has that happened?
Let's just say it happens.
It is a significant issue in America.
Oh my God.
And wait, wait, wait, one second, one second.
When the woman, a black person should not have to remove their photos from the wall and remove black art and remove black books to have a white appraiser then come in and go, oh, it's actually 550,000.
So one second, one second, because I'm going to show you how it impacts generationally.
Here we go.
So when you follow me here, because this is housing sports America, when you then get that lower appraisal, you then cannot sell your house for the higher value, which then means you are not then taking those proceeds and being able to invest, being able to send your kids to school.
And what I'm trying to explain to you is there is a world out here that for some reason, you're like living in unity world that ain't the real America.
Brother, you are.
And I'm trying to get rid of that stuff.
You have the wrong guy here.
You have to.
I'm trying to get rid of it.
Okay, good for you.
Me and I am as well.
But you have the wrong guy here.
And here's what I mean by that.
So when you ask the question, what do you do if they appraise your house $350,000 less, right?
That's your question.
Okay.
I don't see myself as a victim.
I stopped looking at myself as a victim a long time ago.
And by the way, being Armenian and Assyrian, you know what a lot of people in the Armenian community do?
You know what a lot of people in the Armenian community do?
They sell victimhood mentality.
I'm raised with that, which is the statement of mecha.
I know you don't know what the word mecha means.
Mechka means, oh, poor Roland, oh, poor PBD.
I don't see myself as a victim.
And the other part is when you use one story as an example to divide and get people even angrier because out of a thousand appraisals, this happened one time.
I don't think you're unifying when you say a statement like that to say, hey, this is what's taking place all the time.
But going back to it, so you left because you wanted better economic situation for yourself.
This is listening to what you just said again.
I'm having a hard time listening to what you just said when you're saying it's so fundamentally flawed because when you say, oh my God, you see yourself as a victim.
You do.
No, no.
You're selling it as a victim.
No, I'm not.
What I'm selling is a reality.
What I'm selling is when the, this is again, since you didn't, I guess you couldn't pull it up.
Okay.
Oh, he did put it.
Okay, the Biden administration, the Federal Housing and Finance Agency released 47 million appraisal reports to the public for the first time.
The appraisals, which were compiled between 2013 and 2021, present evidence of a persistent, widespread practice in the home appraisal industry to give higher values to homes when the occupants are white and devalue them if the owners are people of color.
That's such bullshit.
That's such bullshit.
You know why?
Hold up.
Let me tell you why that's such bullshit.
They actually took the reports and showed the data, and now you call it bullshit.
Of course I call it.
So you asked for the data and the facts.
No, no, no.
And now you give your opinion because you don't like that, bro.
Come on, man.
Do you run a company?
Yes, I do.
Okay, so when you run a company, how much shit can I find in the OpEx?
How many with OpEx?
When I go into my balance sheet and I look at my expenses, my monthly expenses, what I'm paying for, rent, employees, benefits, workers' comp, I can give a number and say, we lost $280,000 this year.
And it's like, oh, my God, we lost $280,000.
And then I open up the balance sheet and then boom, I'll see you moving your face like, you know what I'm talking about.
First of all, Don't say that.
When I see data like this, tell me the whole story.
To jump to conclusion with something like this without seeing the entire story is ludicrous to make a comment like that.
But analyzing the millions of appraisals by using census as a proxy for neighborhoods and comparing communities with nearly identical housing stock.
Two researchers found that the results showed a clear correlation.
The higher the proportion of white residents in each community, the higher the appraised value of individual homes.
They compared similar data.
See, again, you want to reject the facts.
And what I'm trying to explain to you is this is.
I am refusing to constantly have people give data without me having access to the entire thing just for their own benefit to dividends.
So what you're saying is, in order for you, you need access to the 47 million home appraisals for yourself.
I would love to see it.
Okay, guess what?
It's a federal agency.
Follow a FOIA.
I would love to see it.
Follow a FOIA.
But follow what?
A FOIA.
Okay, so I'd love to see it.
You know why?
Here's the part.
How often do you see data being used and we don't know the whole story?
Both sides.
How often?
Well, first of all, we see data out there, but what I'm saying, I'm looking at data, actual data, and I'm also looking at a reality.
And here's what I'm saying to you.
And again, this is what you, for some reason, you're not fully accepting.
When, what is the most consistent way Americans have been able to actually build wealth?
It has been through housing.
That's been historical.
And when you are black in America, this is not an opinion.
This is not a perspective.
It's a fact.
What we have seen is when you have been unable to enter the housing industry, meaning covenants saying you can't sell to black people.
Then when you actually buy a home and they've been grossly undervalued, that then limits you from being able to sell your home at a higher value and now take the profits and then create a business and then be able to send your kids to college.
And what I'm saying to you is when that has been persisted, when you look at the appraisals, one, when you look at inability where you're buying a house, two, all of a sudden now you see a clear way how African Americans have been impacted, not historically, but still in present day.
And what I'm saying to you is, whether you are Democrat or Republican, I want that to change because what I want you've had 53 years.
The Democrats when Republicans were president and it charged this.
Wait a minute.
Democrats have been Democrats have had to black vote for 53 years.
What have you done?
You're not even answering the question.
What's that?
On this issue right here, this issue right here, Democrat, Republican, Independent, it is a systemic American problem.
You still have an answer.
My best question about 27 out of 30 cities.
You blame the state.
No, no, no.
No, I answer the question.
What did you say?
I said to you, you show me high crime areas.
I am explaining to you how they are high crime areas.
And what I'm saying.
None of it has to do with their policies.
What?
High crime cities in America.
None of it has to do with Democrats right now.
And you can't even name the policy.
What policy?
Give me three Democratic policies.
The point is you can't name the policy.
This is your world.
If I'm in the business world and you ask me questions.
Ending cash bail, defunding the police, which is in our faces, refusing to prosecute categories of crimes, letting thousands of convicted felons out on prison release.
So the prison population.
So that right there, that's the reason for high crime in the last 20 years?
No, I'm just saying that's the article from what was that from New York Times that.
I just haven't answered it.
No, I'm actually answering.
And here's the whole deal.
First of all, when you talk about the issue of ending cash bail, that's actually only been very recent.
Two, ain't no defund the police.
The reality is you have seen a major increase in funding of police.
No, 10 years ago for entire Europe.
That's a flat out lie.
There were individuals.
I'm going to see that with a straight look on your face.
I'm going to tell you right now, I have actually talked directly to.
So who came up with defund the police?
Who came up with it?
Activists did.
Activists.
Activists were Republicans or Democrats.
They were activists.
First of all, they hate both parties.
You wouldn't even talk to them.
But the Democrats in Congress were repeating it.
No, no, no, no.
ALC.
No, sorry, stop, stop, stop.
AOC, who else?
You said the Democrats in Congress.
How many Democrats in Congress opposed defund the police?
A lot.
But I'm saying there were so some in Congress.
You just said some.
Hell, I could quote Louis Goldmert and some crazy stuff that he says and go, well, you know what?
That's Republicans.
The reality is this here.
Democrats, Democratic mayors, Democratic governors, and yes, Democratic president have greatly increased funding of police in this country.
Ain't even a question.
So you can holler, but Democrats defund the police when it shows.
They've actually increased the funding.
Show the video.
They've increased the funding.
You asked for it.
You asked for it.
Show the video.
Which video now?
Show the video I just emailed you.
I just texted to you.
Who we got?
Dead Hawes Barkley?
Democrats.
Democrats haven't said defund the police at all because they wouldn't.
I don't say that.
No, no, you said Democrats haven't said that.
Activists said that.
Your word.
No, no.
You said who created the phrase.
I said it was activists.
Who supported that created support?
Who came up with the concept of defunding the police?
Activists did.
And then which credible Democrats are defunding?
There were some Democrats.
No, not some.
These are some heavy-duty policies.
No, no, no, no.
Make it bigger.
No, no, no.
Make it bigger.
When Democrats control Congress, how many votes they had?
Here you go.
When Democrats control Congress, how many votes?
You like Stacey Pelosi?
When Democrats control Congress, how many votes did they have?
How many votes did they have?
What's your point?
The point is here.
Did 223 Democrats vote to defund the police?
President?
No, Answer the question.
Yes or no?
You're asking, I'm showing you data because you asked for this.
No, you're not going to be asking me.
You're showing me some Democrats who spoke on the most credible ones.
Mental health issues or policing in schools and all the rest, that perhaps we can shuffle some of that money around.
Suck it up.
Defunding the police has to happen.
We need to defund the police.
Eric Arceti saying, take some of the money from policing, about $150 million.
I applaud Eric Arceti for doing what he's done.
Not only do we need to defund the police.
No, no, no, no.
That's two.
No, no, that's two.
So you're going to dismantle them in the allocation.
That's only two.
That's just me.
Defund your police.
Yes, I support the reallocation of resources.
Three.
No, no, that's not defund.
Reallocating.
No, these don't fund it.
No, because I'm about to change it.
It's two.
They are talking about reducing the allocation of resources to that.
You're defunding us.
You're wrong.
How's that wrong?
Yes, I support the defunding.
That's three.
That's the three.
Now, let me explain to you.
How many more you want to do?
No, no, no.
So let me explain to you.
That's fine.
No, it's three.
No, that's fine.
So it's only three.
By the way, would you reallocate mean?
Would you like me to continue this?
No, it's no.
No, you're wrong.
You're wrong.
Do you understand?
Do you understand that in a significant number of cities in this country where you have policing who do everything?
Okay?
You have in some cities where the police are handing out parking tickets, where the police are doing duties that had nothing to do with the streets.
When you say reallocate, what that says is, okay, why should we have police handing out parking tickets?
Why don't we have them doing the major function of fighting crime?
Why don't we actually have this unit that handles that?
That's called reallocation.
When you talk about the issue of mental illness, no, I'm not.
I'm standing facts.
First of all, it makes both of you a question.
Have either one of you actually covered City Hall before?
No, don't.
No, no, I'm giving you facts.
Here's the deal.
I actually have been a city hall reporter.
I have actually been in the city meetings.
When you talk about.
Why don't you just say you were wrong?
Why?
Because I'm not wrong.
Democrats were wrong.
Because I'm not wrong.
Because you're wrong.
No, but hold up, roll it.
Wait a minute.
Hang on.
Explain to me reallocation.
Hold up, Mr. CEO.
Yeah.
When you in a company and when you reallocate funds from one unit to the other, are you cutting funding or are you simply adjusting?
Why do you have a hard time just saying they said it?
Why do you have a hard time?
By the way, I can actually count three people who say defunding.
If you allowed it, you would have heard them saying defund the police.
Wait a minute.
I literally heard Nats Pullers say shuffle.
I heard Kamala Harris say reallocate.
You go, oh, that's defund.
You actually have a reallocation of resources that exist in city government, county government, state government, federal government every single day.
But for some reason, you don't want to deal with that.
Was it spinning when I told you that Democratic mayors and governors and the president, they've greatly increased police funding?
Hold up.
Can you acknowledge that as a fact?
Hold up.
Can you acknowledge it as a fact?
If I sit with you and you can acknowledge.
Can you acknowledge it's a fact?
And you can acknowledge that your side of the party.
Support it.
See, that's right there.
See, you're yelling your side.
I'm not yelling my side.
You're a registered independent.
Here's the whole deal, though.
First of all, again, first of all, in Texas, I don't have to register as anybody.
You still are not going to acknowledge the fact that the defund the police concept was brought up and constantly reaffirmed by some of the most powerful Democrats in America.
The Speaker of the House said that the shuffling of funds.
That is not defunded.
If you, if you would have vice, Kamala Harris said reallocation.
That is not.
But Ilhan Omar said not only defund, she said dismantle.
She's a member of Congress.
How many people listen to me?
Hold on, stop, stop.
That's one member of Congress, right?
You want to let you let it.
That's a seven-minute video.
You want to let the whole thing play?
First of all, show me, here's the deal.
Show me 218 who defended that and actually voted for it to happen.
Mayor Lori Lightfoot of Chicago took actual COVID funds and shifted $20 million to the police department to deal with the mental issues that they were having.
Oh, I'm sorry.
Is that reallocation?
Maybe one of the worst mayors in America.
You took COVID money.
Yeah.
Hold up.
COVID money and reallocated for that.
Oh, but reallocation works when you agree with it.
What I'm trying to explain to you is when you say defund, that means cut.
You can defund means cut.
Do you remember earlier when I said there's a difference between persuasion and manipulation?
You can spin any argument.
I'm not spinning.
You're very good at debating.
You're very good at raising your voice, interrupting all that stuff.
I've watched it.
I just think it's hilarious.
But what's that?
Both of you will say that the Democratic Party has supported defund the police when the fact they supported it.
When the fact of the matter is the Democratic Party came up with the idea of defunding the police and they supported it.
You're actually wrong.
You've not heard Republicans say defund the police.
You've not heard.
Actually, you're actually wrong.
In Senator Tim Scott's policing bill that he released in 2021 in the bill, I will happily send it to you.
What did he say?
He actually said.
What did he say?
You want me to read it?
I want to hear it.
No, I'm going to read it.
Hold up.
Let me guess.
He said reallocate.
No, That's not what he said.
Because see, what you don't understand is.
But here's what we're saying.
No, no, no, no.
Hold on.
When the George Floyd Justice Act.
Played the entire justice action.
Played the entire class.
I literally sent this.
I sent this to Senator Tim Scott and he didn't answer my question.
We were running for office, and I answered yes to that question.
We are going to reduce funding in the police department and redirect that money.
Smart movement, growing and growing.
What did they do?
We propose that police cuts is a good thing.
He's a separate.
You didn't even know what London Breen did.
You didn't know what she did in San Francisco.
No, that wasn't a she, that was a guy.
$10 million.
London Green in cuts where she did to leave town.
Are cuts a good thing?
No more policing.
Incarcerated military.
Police cuts are a good thing.
In these communities.
If they're not doing their job.
What do they say?
Oh, my God.
So you're saying that's the thing.
We want fundamental.
Right here.
No, no, no, no.
You said to me, you said, oh, show me, Republican.
When Senator Tim Scott introduced his bill, okay, on police reform, this is one of the things that he did.
When it failed last year, he went on Margaret Brennan's show, CBS Face the Nation.
He said the Democrats wanted to defund the police, and that was a bridge too far.
In Senator Tim Scott's own bill, they actually said, in order for police to qualify for these funds, laws will have to be passed on the city of the state level.
Excuse me, excuse me, excuse me, excuse me.
Oh, my God.
So you buy that into defund the police, but we need to reduce it.
See right there.
You won't even listen.
Buddy, if there's anybody who doesn't listen to this.
No, you listen.
Senator Tim Scott said that they won't get the funds if laws don't get passed.
When the George Fox, you're a master spinner.
First of all, if you listen, I'm telling you what he did.
He did a year later, cause that same thing, respect, defund the police.
And I literally, and if you want to see it, those are the text messages.
You're so funny.
I sent to Senator Tim Scott and I said, Senator Tim Scott, please explain to me the difference between what you said the Democrats are doing, what you did.
You just hurt your argument even more.
What are you talking about?
Because what you just did has validated everybody else what they just said.
No, because what Kamala said, what Nancy Pelosi said, they're all saying the same thing.
Defund the police.
And now they realize it was a bad idea.
He did not say defund the police.
Of course, he did not either.
Oh, oh, wait a minute.
So you say what Kamala said was defund the police.
Your argument, you just threw yourself up.
No, I didn't.
You did.
No, I did.
Of course you did.
No, I was specifically calling out Senator Tim Scott by trying to call something defund the police when they were simply proposing exactly what they were doing.
You know what he did?
You know what's the problem?
Here's the problem, Roland.
The problem is when I sat down, when I sit down with somebody with whatever thing they believe in, okay?
It's specifically a lot on the Democratic side.
It's specifically being a Democrat before their country.
It is how they vote before America.
It is, nope, I'm going to defend this because there's no way these guys are going to say anything wrong with defund the police.
And that's where you lose credibility.
All you have to say is you have no credibility on this when you can't even acknowledge what reallocation means.
You have no credibility when you can't even define that.
When I have actually talked to mayors and city council members and they have walked through how, when London breathed policies have destroyed the city.
Here you go.
Here you go.
Destroy the city.
Destroying the city.
53 Democrats have had to vote.
When the mayor, when the mayor of San Francisco talked about the mental illness crisis in their particular city, and they said we need to be sending mental health folks out on calls and not always the cops.
Now, we've seen numerous examples where that happens.
What has actually happened in the last 30 or 40 years in Democrat and Republican cities and states in the country?
We've seen a massive cut with mental illness.
What is the greatest increase of incidents?
No, I'm not.
I'm stating fact.
You don't like what you refuse to acknowledge or accept because you're stuck on Democrats have had it for 53 years.
You act as if I ask you.
No, no, no, wait, wait, hold up.
You act as if in those 53 years, Republicans have never had power.
You act as if Republicans have never had the House or the Senate or the White House.
Here's what I'm saying.
So here's the question.
Show me how the Republicans.
There's no way to talk with you, bro.
I got to tell you.
Show me how Republicans changed.
So here's what I do.
Give me examples.
Are you going to let anybody speak?
I'm waiting for your example.
If you have 92% of an entire community's vote.
Like the evangelicals?
For 60 years.
Like the evangelicals?
Evangelicals are also part of that black vote.
If you have 90%.
I actually don't understand evangelicals and black evangelicals.
If you have 92% of the black vote for 59 years, 59 years later, 27 out of 30 cities for crime are ran by Democrats, your policies don't work.
And let me ask you this question.
People have to revisit.
I'm going to.
I started.
Let me finish and I'll let you talk.
You either have to consider new policies or the voters have to consider a new party.
And let me ask you this question.
When Republicans have been in charge of the House, the Senate, the White House, or the governor's mansion, or state senators, or the legislature, because 31 states right now, they control both chambers, a significant number of them in the South, where the majority of black people are.
Please show me, show me empirical data how the lives of black people have fundamentally changed under Republican rule.
I'll wait.
Do you know who started getting more votes from the black community?
Do you know who?
Your favorite guy.
Do you know who?
Who?
Your best friend.
I'm going to go ahead and say it.
Donald Trump.
Got it.
Yeah.
Do you know who said that?
No, no, no, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on.
Oh, you don't like that?
No, no, no.
First of all, I discussed it on my show.
Nice try.
But I want you to answer my question.
I want you to answer my question.
Republicans control all three branches in South Carolina.
They control Georgia.
They control Mississippi.
They control Arkansas.
They control Tennessee.
So they control the legislature in North Carolina.
So since you, I'm going to use your argument.
Please show me, please.
Please show me how the lives of African Americans are drastically improved in those places where Republicans completely control then other places.
Show me.
Give me an example.
Roland, if you would have answered any of my questions.
Oh, my God.
If you would have answered any of my questions, I answered your question.
You don't like the answer.
No, it's not.
I don't like the answer.
You don't like the answer.
You say, tell me the policies.
I'm asking you the policies.
Oh, so you so I can't ask you a question.
You can't get an answer.
You can, but I would like you.
I brought you here.
Invite me on your show and I'll give you the answer.
No, because I'm the guest.
Wait, wait, wait.
I brought you on the show.
First of all, even on my show, if somebody asked me a question, hell, I answered the question.
I've answered your questions.
You still can't answer it.
And the reason why you can't answer.
It's been an hour and 20 minutes now, you still have an answer to the question.
Actually, I have.
You have not.
Actually, I have.
What policy?
Here's why you haven't answered.
You blame the state.
No, no.
You blame surrounding cities.
No.
You blame Republicans.
That's what you blame.
No, no.
And I tell you.
For 59 years.
And first of all, systemic racism is a policy because it's actually ingrained in our system.
That's first.
What I'm also saying to you is what I recognize is how do we fix these, again, institutionally?
Long-range institutions.
How do we fix them?
First and foremost, first and foremost, we got to stop denying that actually it's a problem, which you have done.
Oh, no.
I just showed you it is a problem.
27 out of 30.
No, no, no.
It is a problem.
We've got to stop.
Stop denying the problem.
For 59 years, Democrats have had the votes.
Sat here and denied the systemic reality of racism in the housing appraiser industry by going, I need to see the 47 million.
You just denied it.
1 million percent I need to see the data.
And I want to see.
1 million percent I need to see.
I need to see the data.
Here's the deal.
And by the way, you're giving a little too much credibility to New York Times.
Here's the deal.
Oh, okay, fine.
Do you want to pull up what?
First of all, you gave it a heritage report.
You read a New York Times report citing the Heritage Foundation.
Dude, really?
Wait, you're telling me New York Times got a lot of credibility.
That's what you're saying.
No, I just told you you referenced the Heritage Foundation.
Dude, come on.
That's the Daily Signal.
That's the Daily Signal.
And who owns them?
I don't even know who owns Daily Signal.
Heritage Foundation.
Okay, great.
I've done their show, so that's an in-house organization.
Here's what I'm telling you.
Oh, by the way, go to a good site who give 27 out of 30.
I'm going back.
I'm going back, but you still won't even answer.
And this is what I'm telling you.
You can't even show me.
Now, I'm going to use Mississippi.
Since Mississippi has the highest concentration of black people of any state in America, the Republicans have ruled that state since the Mississippi Constitutional Convention in 1891.
Not a single African American has been elected statewide in Mississippi.
So if Republicans control the governor's mansion, the legislature in Mississippi, how then, since you talk about the policies, how is it the lives of African Americans have not improved in Mississippi?
If you say it's the Democrats, it's their policies.
Show me, tell me how it hasn't improved in Mississippi.
Roland, until you give me your answers on the questions I've asked, I gave you the answer.
You're going to go to the specific example.
No, Mississippi.
Here's what I will tell you.
Arkansas, Tennessee, South Carolina, North Carolina, Georgia.
I've given you multiple states.
You still haven't answered my question.
I answered your question.
No, you have not.
You don't like the answer.
No, you have not answered the question.
I have.
You blamed and deflected.
You don't like the answer.
What is the answer?
You don't like the answer.
What's the answer?
I get you multiplied.
Your answer is tell me about Memphis.
It's deflect.
That's right.
I never even brought up Memphis.
Not Memphis, Mississippi.
Mississippi.
You deflect.
No, I'm giving you an example of what?
No, because since you said that.
You haven't explained.
I'm saying 27 out of 30.
Let me say that.
You haven't explained it.
Let me say it again.
59 years you've had the vote.
And I'm telling you.
What have you done about it?
You said, since you said, since you said, oh, my God, you Democratic votes, show me in Republican red as reddish states how they have improved the lives of African Americans.
Show me.
Roland.
Roland, I don't think you understand what I'm saying to you right now.
I understand what you're saying.
Let me ask a question for you.
What is your method of helping African Americans?
Go ahead, tell us.
First and foremost, when we talk about helping African Americans, I'm going to acknowledge what is systemic and what is systemic.
Systemic?
Defining it.
Systemic is when you have the housing appraisal.
That's systemic.
Okay.
Okay.
Systemic is when you have a higher proportion, four to five times of black children who are being expelled or arrested in school compared to white kids.
That's systemic.
Now, no, You asked how.
First and foremost, we have what's community.
We have what's systemic, what's community-based, which means the village, or also what is individual.
When you start talking about how do you make transformations in this country, first and foremost, you have to deal with the two most important things, health, and you deal with the issue of education.
When Republicans and conservatives were talking about getting rid of Roe v. Wade, I literally said, okay, gotcha.
And I had Ben Watson, the former NFL player, come on.
He did a documentary on the issue of abortion.
And I said, Ben, here's the fundamental problem when I hear pro-life.
I said, they're not pro-life.
They're anti-abortion.
I said, because the people who are so-called pro-life, I said, show me the policies when they confront the infant mortality rate among African Americans.
Show me when they confront the higher number of black women who are dying in childbirth, the people who are having children.
He said, you can't.
They literally can't.
And so that's an example.
We talk about, again, health, we're talking about prenatal care, we talk about those issues.
That means that if you're a black child and you have a higher incident of black women who are dying in childbirth, Serena Williams, see, it ain't just money thing.
Serena Williams talked about with all her money, how she almost died in childbirth because white doctors were not listening to her.
Do you know the opioid crisis, why it initially was killing more white people?
You know why?
Tell us.
Because doctors in America, the study showed it.
Doctors were saying, we're not going to prescribe the opioids to African Americans because we think they're coming to us for drugs.
So y'all got to take Tylenol.
So they were over-prescribing OxyContin and all these powerful meds.
And I said, well, my goodness, thank God the one time racism benefited black people.
We would not overprescribe OxyContin and other bills, other pills.
The white death rate has, the average length of whites living in America has dropped largely because of the opioid crisis.
So that's systemic.
That is systemic in your system.
How do we fix the sex?
So first of all, the way you first of all fix anything systemic, you even acknowledge that it's systemic.
That's first.
Two, then you have to have your data and then go in and say, okay, now, let's now confront the reality of what we're facing.
You cannot have in schools where you have largely white teachers who don't know how to handle black kids, whose automatic call is call the cops, where you now have kids who are in kindergarten and first grade who now are being handcuffed and now taken down to jail.
What you have to deal with is in a school system, how do you deal with those children, but also where they're coming from?
What's one of the issues?
I talked to numerous superintendents and teachers.
One of the biggest things that kids are coming to school hungry.
When Republicans, when you're talking about foods, we talk about food and talk about poor.
When they wanted to cut SNAP benefits, I was sitting here going, now explain that to me.
How we got the richest, prosperous country in the world and we want to cut food benefits to folk who are hungry.
Kids, teachers, principals, superintendents have said one of the biggest things that we're facing are kids who literally are coming to school who are hungry.
That's why they can't study.
Probably got discipline problems.
So now, okay, how do we deal with that?
We have to acknowledge that even exists.
What we can't do is from a macro political level is go, oh, oh, these folks, y'all just don't want to work.
It's called the working poor for a reason.
They are working.
I'm not going to just throw people under the bus and go, oh, you're just ignorant.
You don't want to work.
I'm acknowledging the fact of the matter is, when the Republican governor of Alabama, about 10 years ago, he wanted to change the tax code and he used Jesus as the model.
He said, folks, in Alabama, they were taxing the poor.
They were taxing people beginning at $4,600.
I think it was $4,600.
It was $9,600.
He said, these are poor people.
He used evangelicals, white conservative evangelicals.
He used, he's campaigning.
Jesus talked about how we have the poor, blah, blah, blah, blah.
He was at this whole deal.
When it came time to vote, what you think happened?
Lost 65 to 35.
So the same folk who love Jesus, the same folk who holler, oh, I'm pro-life and I love me some Jesus and I'm an evangelical.
No, when it came to that, no, they voted with a pocketbook because they were saying, oh, those broke poor people.
A Republican governor, a conservative evangelical, they said, no, no, no.
It's our pocketbook.
The problem we have in this country is we are frauds when we talk about we care about the poor.
We are fraudulent.
I agree with that.
Both sides.
And what happens?
I said America.
I said America.
That includes everybody.
And so what then happens is our economic policies screw them.
And then we go, why?
You should pull yourself up by your own bootstraps when the reality is think some politicians don't want to get blacks out of their financials.
Some of these bad communities.
You don't think they want them to become independent making money?
You think some people would like to keep them where they're at?
Let me be clear.
In America, yes.
In America, yes.
Because it's reflected in our policies.
have Reverend William borrow from the Poor People's Campaign.
And this is not just and it's not just race.
Rolling.
It's not just race.
Roland.
Look.
Because there's more broke white folks in America than black.
When you run a business and you have 40,000 agents nationwide and they're Hispanic, 54% Hispanic, 24% African American.
This is our business.
I have offices in Memphis.
I have offices in Mississippi.
I have offices in Chicago.
I have offices in Southside.
I can go offices in.
I was just in Calverton.
Whereas Calverton is in, where is Calverton?
Calverton's in Baltimore or D.C.
I have offices in.
I go to all the, I have offices in Tallahassee.
I have offices everywhere.
And I go visit these places.
Okay.
Because it's what I need to do to go check on these folks.
You have to realize 60% of our company, they're Democrats.
Okay.
Point I'm trying to make it.
That ain't got nothing to do with what I'm talking about.
But it does to me because I. Of course it does.
Well, yeah, you're saying it in a sarcastic way.
I'll tell you in my way because I want to find out what we can do to improve.
And if the data improves, Republican policies are doing better, which they haven't had a chance to do because they haven't had to vote for it.
That's a lie.
They have 92% has been voting.
Democrats.
Stop.
Stop it.
Pull up.
90%.
See, right here.
You act as if Republicans haven't won.
I don't think you understand.
Let me ask you.
If you're a Republican and you win, are African Americans still your constituents?
No, no.
Trump made a lot of progress in your community for 50%.
Hold on, hold on, stop, stop, stop.
For where?
For where?
Income.
You're going to pull up the stats for you.
Pull it up.
With a net loss of jobs.
Net loss of jobs.
You counted COVID.
Don't do that when you count COVID.
Don't bring up COVID and say network stops.
Wait a minute.
Wait a minute.
So you don't bring up COVID.
Oh, my God.
I'm going to say, by the way, wait, what you just did?
No, no, no.
What you just did.
Do we not bring up what you just did?
That's a validate for three years.
What you just did validates why that article about the appraisals being this, that's exactly what you just did.
No, it's not.
It doesn't tell the whole story.
Here's the deal right here.
Here's the deal.
I love this here.
This is what I love about this.
I love about when people, again, go, oh, let's take out what happened.
I know he was president, not just him.
Same thing, Obama.
If we take out 2009, 2010, okay, oh my God, this is what it looks like.
I can't ignore 09 and 010 and 10.
We can't go, well, my goodness, I know we had a war when FDR was president.
Look, when you the president, you get the good and you get the bad.
The assessment is overall.
So pre-global pandemic.
But hold up.
He wasn't helping African Americans.
He didn't?
Unemployment, everything wasn't going up during Trump in the first three years.
So once the pandemic hit, hold on, hold on.
Hold on.
Are we now saying that the president is responsible and gets credit for unemployment and being low?
Are we saying that?
I'm saying every policy that he was doing to help African Americans.
No, what you said.
So you said every policy.
Once the politician.
I said name the policy.
Once the police.
I said name the policy.
I said name the policy.
You said unemployment rate.
That's not a policy.
Because the reality right now is unemployment rate right now at the lowest of 54 years, including Trump.
The black unemployment rate, lowest in 54 years, including Trump.
I'm asking, you said Trump helping policies.
I'm asking you what policies.
I didn't say policies.
I said helping African Americans all the time.
No, no, he said policies.
Can you name them?
Can you name them?
I'm waiting.
What I said to you is the following.
Can you name the policy?
What I said to you is the following.
I said 59 years.
Got it.
You've had this vote.
How come you haven't made bigger progress?
So in the same 59 years.
You're going to say Republicans have had the House of Representatives.
No, Wait, a minute.
Let me ask you a question.
If a Republican wins, are black folks still constituents?
Of course.
Okay.
Sure.
So when Republicans have won, show me, again, Republicans, whether we're talking about state, city, county, state, governor, or legislature, and Congress, show me how lives of black people have improved.
I've asked you, there are 10 or more southern states.
When you turn on every single news and every single personality that says Republican doesn't want the good for you, it's the Democrats that are here to help you.
Here's the deal.
Yeah, you've had 59 years.
And Republicans in the same 59 years have been elected.
And what did they do?
22% of the vote you've had for 59 years.
And in the same 59 years, they won.
But you can't, but you simply are ignoring that.
But how much has improved?
27 out of 19.
And I'm asking you, in those same cities, in those same states, who are still constituents?
Here's the thing that, again, and this is what was you, for some reason, I don't know, like there's a block in your brain.
If you are Republican, and I've said this to African Americans, you vote for somebody and your person don't win, you are still a constituent.
And the reality is you are.
You're still a constituent.
It's so funny.
Ted Cruz gave an interview yesterday when he was jammed up by Margaret Brennan about, Ted, how are you supporting a two-term limit in the United States Senate to run for your third term?
He goes, well, because the 30 million Texans want me there.
No, it's a lot of Texans who didn't want you there, but we're still constituents.
So the question still comes is, Senator Ted Cruz, what are you doing for African Americans?
I can't act as if you're acting as if Republicans have no responsibility, don't have to do any policy that even when they win.
Even when they win, even when they win, oh, it's all on Democrats.
And what I'm telling you is what we're dealing with in this country, dealing with is you have one party that historically, over the last 50 plus years, has just completely, like, I ain't talking to you.
Yeah.
I ain't talking to you.
That's what you've had.
Over here, you've had Democrats who have had some policies, have had talk.
Let me real clear, because I've jammed them up on many things.
Absolutely should be doing more when we talk about rate of return.
I jammed up President Obama directly saying, I'm not as excited because you're the first black president.
You're still the 44th president.
And what I'm telling you is, because you want to answer that question, even in the places where Republicans have complete control, what are their policies?
What do you want from them, though?
You want them to be what?
You want CRT is what you want?
What would you like for them?
What would you like for them?
I love how you just want to throw that up.
Here's what I want.
I want them to treat black folks and Latinos or anybody who did not vote for them as constituents.
They are.
No, they're not.
You think Democrats are treating Republicans as constituents?
Wait, wait, wait.
No, no, no, excuse me.
Democrats are treating Republicans deflection.
What la-la-la-la-do-do-do-lo-Go?
No, you're in the La La Land.
When Governor Tate Reeves, when Governor Tate Reeves of Mississippi said and proudly said, when I was a treasurer of Mississippi, I purposely didn't send funds to Jackson, Mississippi.
But now he wants to complain about the water crisis.
Well, dude, you were the treasurer.
You neglected resources.
What city supplies more of the state's revenue in Mississippi?
Jackson.
What supplies more of the sales tax revenue?
Jackson.
But you wanted to deny the resources to the very same city.
That's Republican.
And what I'm telling you is, and again, I don't know why you just somehow like rose colored.
The issue I'm saying is this here.
If Republicans want to be like Missouri, show me.
Fine, show me.
But I'm telling you, I don't know how many black Republicans you sat with, but I've sat with a hell of a whole lot.
And their great frustration is their own party won't even listen to them.
Have you ever talked to Michael Steele?
Roland.
Ever talked to Michael Steele?
I have not.
I did not have a problem having him on.
Okay, here was a brother who actually ran the Republican National Committee.
And he will openly tell you of the absolute frustration he had with Republican leaders on the very same thing that we're talking about.
So let me ask you a different question.
So you can yell Democrats all day.
I'm telling you, black Republicans.
I got you.
You've had 59 years and 27 out of 30.
And Republicans have been elected in the same city.
27 out of 30 cities.
Here we go.
Here's a question for you.
During COVID, what state do you think handled COVID the best?
Well, we say handle COVID the best.
Yeah, which one's policies handled COVID?
When you say handle COVID the best, you had, first of all, you got to break that thing.
You had testing, you had your vaccine, then you had your mask, then you had your businesses.
I think different states did things well.
The greatest problem was that they were left to their own devices because of gross ignorance coming out of the White House.
Be specific with the states.
Which one?
First of all, I'm unpacking it.
First of all, I'm all leaders.
First of all, when you had states that were forced to compete for equipment, that was just stupid.
Again, you had failure of leadership.
So when I look at, I look at the various states, when I look at what California did, some things good.
When I look at, excuse me, oh, I want to talk about what I said.
I'm walking through it.
Okay.
Some of the lockdowns they had were good.
When I look at some of the mask mandates that took place in places like Georgia were good.
When I look at some of the places in Florida, good.
When I look at some of the policies that took place in New York State were good because it was based upon nursing homes.
It was based upon hospitals.
That was such a, again, the problem that we had statewide was that you had such gross neglect federally that it was disjointed all around the country.
When you had Maryland like flying private planes and trying to find equipment and doing stuff along those lines, they were able to get some of that sort of stuff.
So you had Republican governors, Democratic governors in different states who were doing things well.
Who still had told me?
Wait a minute.
Wait, I interrupted you, hoping you would say it.
You said what California did good with the lockdown.
You said Georgia masked.
You didn't say anything about New York, what they did right, and what Florida did.
No, no, no.
What I said, I said.
You didn't say what Florida did.
I did.
I said, I actually did.
And also, I said in New York in terms of what they were doing with their nursing homes, hospitals, and restaurants.
How about Florida?
Florida.
Florida, same thing.
Some of the mask mandates.
And also, and again, also when it came to testing.
What the problems that we saw again was that this thing was so fast moving.
And again, no real federal leadership.
So these states were left to like fend for themselves.
And I think one of the greatest, one of the greatest, you know, most shameful thing is when you had states, they were overpaying for goods and services when it should have been run through the federal government and actually streamlined states should not have been competing against one another and fighting for equipment.
What Republican Governor Hogan was doing in Maryland, trying to compete against Democratic governor in Virginia, competing against a Democratic governor in New York, competing against a Republican governor in Florida.
That was absolutely crazy.
But again, there were some very good things.
Thank God we had folks who ramped up testing facilities, who ramped up, who were using stadiums and things along those lines.
And so those things were good.
But there were a lot of things that were bad.
So again, it was some good, a lot of bad.
Roland, how do you judge data specific to data?
How do you judge the best country to live in with the best opportunities?
Well, here's the deal.
When you say that, there are numerous factors there.
So you go economic, you go health, you go education, you go quality of living, you go environment, you go all of that.
And so there are reports or studies done that America's not at the top.
There are other countries.
Now, here's the deal.
We go, oh, my God, that's not us.
Are there other countries better educationally than the United States?
Yes.
When it comes to our healthcare system, some parts of our system, great.
I'm from Houston.
Texas Medical Center, MD Anderson, Cancer Institute, tops in the country.
The other aspect, awful.
What I recognize is that we ain't perfect.
We're good, we're great areas, but we aren't great in other areas.
When we complain about human rights abuses in China, we act like police violence don't happen here.
The fact of the matter is.
That's a big difference.
Okay.
Tell it to the person who got beat.
Yeah, it's a big difference.
Yeah, tell us the person who got beat.
Tell it to the person.
Tell the person who had buried a family member to do the police violence, but go ahead.
Don't pin the position as a person not being sympathetic to the laws.
I didn't say not being sympathetic.
I'm saying when your child or your son, your daughter's been beaten and killed.
I lived in a country called Iran at a time where you couldn't tell people you were Christian.
And trust me, it's not a place to be.
Well, very big difference between China and the U.S. I've interviewed enough mothers and fathers who've had children who've been the victims of police violence who will say, guess what?
They didn't live in Iran, but their child is still dead.
Right.
I agree.
That's catastrophic on what happened.
I saw the video on Tyree Nichols, what happened.
I had a hard time watching it.
You know what I haven't heard?
And I keep asking my Republican friends this year.
The billions that we spend every year on police settlements, do you know who I rarely hear saying anything?
Fiscal conservatives.
Let me come back.
I wonder why.
We'll finish.
How about we finish off with that?
That's fine.
Let's stay on this topic here.
You said judging a great country.
Right.
Right.
And you said all those different things.
Okay, great.
How do you judge a great restaurant?
Well, customer service.
Okay.
Cleanliness.
Yeah.
Quality of food.
Yeah.
Ambiance.
Some places, it's the music.
Yeah.
All depends on what you all depends on what you like.
What's your favorite food?
What do you like?
Oh, first of all, my grandparents from Louisiana is gumbo.
Okay.
Cool.
I'm good with that.
Okay.
It's gumbo.
So when you see, what is the most packed restaurant where you're at right now?
Packed restaurant.
Like Friday night is jam-packed.
It could be the hole in the wall with great food.
It could be STK.
It could be Prime 112.
There you go.
Hell, I'm from Texas, and it's 2 o'clock in the morning.
Damn it, it's Whataburger.
There you go.
So it don't even matter.
So it ain't no Michelin.
It's just time and place.
Time and place.
I'm totally with you.
And who the hell is open?
I'm with you.
But a part of it comes down to.
And not In-N-Out, Waterburger.
So, well, listen, this is Team In-N-Out here.
I just won't let you know.
The hell.
We're willing to go.
I don't want to damn five guys.
I don't want seller dressing on my dad.
Have you tried five guys or no?
Dude, I tried five guys, but it ain't Whataburger.
I don't want salad dressing on my burger day.
Damn it, bro.
It's either mustard.
I can't do it.
It's ketchup.
I lived in Texas five years.
I can't do it.
See, that's right.
Here's the part.
I'm glad you left.
I'm glad you left.
On Team Waterburger day, man.
You left as well.
No, I didn't.
Where are you living at?
I'm a registered voter in Texas.
But where are you living?
I'm going to own my house.
Where are you in most places?
Nah, come on.
Now, now you.
I ask you.
I'm trying to tell you.
Stop it.
I'm trying to tell you.
So let me go back to this.
The way to judge.
I'm still paying them damn property taxes.
You can't tell me where I live.
The way to judge.
You're also paying state taxes in Texas, which I'm sure you appreciate.
You don't pay state taxes in Texas.
That's the point.
So you like the state taxes you're paying for.
I'm just stating you don't pay state income taxes.
Of course I know.
I'm just stating the policy.
I get that.
And I would much rather pay Texas a state income tax than Virginia.
Yeah, but you still have a lot of property taxes.
So nowhere.
Hospital district taxes and school taxes.
Would you flip it?
Would you rather pay the property or the state taxes?
Actually, I looked at both, and it's really based upon.
No, I'm trying to tell you, it's based upon where you actually live.
I'm trying to tell you.
So you would take 13% state taxes of California.
I just pay lower really.
Nice trick trying to go to California.
You mentioned Virginia and Texas.
What I'm saying is, when I look at both of them, I'm looking at priorities in those places and what you're actually paying.
Let me stay on this here.
Okay.
So the way to judge a great country to me, one of the best factors is immigration.
Okay.
America leads it with 41 million.
Okay.
China's losing.
They're net.
People are leaving.
Russia's losing.
People are leaving.
Actually, first of all, China's, first of all, they're not leaving.
China's one-child policy 30 years ago screwed them.
No, but they're also leaving.
It's both.
But it's their birth.
You're right, but they're also leaving.
Yeah, but the deal is, if you were still having kids, you're not worried about who's leaving.
But people are leaving.
They had kids.
You're right.
But people are leaving.
I don't know who the hell thought that was a good idea.
But guess what?
The fact that they can stop catch up.
Yeah.
So here's the other part.
So the other part is when you look at policies during COVID, who did it best, what's the best way to gauge it?
You said those things, those items, right?
Again, there's no best way to gauge it because that is going to be subjective.
It's what do you think was most important?
Do you think vaccines?
Do you think keeping businesses open?
Do you think testing?
What was most important?
Do you think mask updates?
It's all about the world.
There's no way to reason with you.
There's no way to reason with you.
I just don't.
I'm just simply not agreeing with you.
There are different ways to assess what you think is best based upon priority.
So let me ask you.
So you watch sports?
Yes.
What do you like?
What do you mean what I like?
Are you going Eagles or Chiefs?
I don't give a damn about either one.
I'm from Houston.
So you're Houston.
I'm born and raised in Houston.
I don't care who wins.
Astros.
He's an Astros family.
I just said Houston.
Okay.
What does Houston mean?
So I got you.
Anybody in Houston.
Right.
So I don't give a damn who wins.
So does the score at the end, is it subjective?
No.
There's a score.
There's a score.
Okay.
So is there a way to have a score on what state handled this is?
No, it's not.
Really?
No, no, no.
No, there is.
But it is still subjective because that will be weighing whatever, however, you want to apportion.
In football, it's simple.
Six points for a touchdown, one point for a PAT, three points for a field goal, two for a safety.
Okay, that's the deal.
Over here, it's subjective.
It's whoever is deciding.
I'm just curious.
What are you going to say with this?
So the fact that California had its first net loss to population since 1851 and that New York lost 330, is there any of that that's subjective to you?
Why people leave?
People leave for various reasons.
First time since 1851, California had a net loss.
Okay.
And right now we have, here's the whole deal.
I look at what happens.
So for instance, when we were talking, we were talking about, which is the basis of my book, White Fear, we're talking about nation becoming a majority, minority country by 2043.
Why is that?
White folks stopped having kids.
Okay, why is that?
Why is the average death rate among white Americans higher in 12 states than the average birth rate?
When something happens, I'm going back to you and your housing appraisal.
I didn't see the data.
You have to ask the question, why?
Why is this happening?
Why is the Rust Belt losing population?
One of the reasons the Rust Belt is losing population, because when you get the great migration of African Americans from the South to the North, where were they going?
Chicago.
They were going to Gary, Indiana.
They were going to Detroit.
They were going to St. Louis and those places.
What has been happening?
There have been people who are like, you know what?
We can move back home, land issues.
And so if somebody, when I'm looking at something, I'm then go, okay, why are they leaving?
Not just, oh, they're leaving.
I can't assign it to COVID.
I can't assign it to just this.
I need to know why people are leaving.
Have they been surveyed?
Can you pull up Power versus Force?
Just pull up Power versus Force.
I just want to show something to you.
This book changed my life.
I would recommend go to images.
Go to images if you can.
I just want to this.
This book is a life-changing book.
Oprah Winfrey talked about this a long time ago.
Go to the one that says the color, the color, the color bottom left.
Yeah, that one right there.
So it explains different levels that we go through.
Shame at the bottom, which is a lowest level of consciousness.
And it's mathematically impossible to have a conversation to say, I think this is where we got it wrong.
Here's where we could do this.
Here we can do that.
I don't see a, I don't know if there's an ability to say, I can see how we can improve in this area.
I can see how we can improve in that area based on the conversation I'm having with you.
But you run a company.
We do this exact same thing in companies.
The reality is this here.
When I'm looking at a show, folks go like, was that a great show?
Oh, I think they'll say this is a great show.
No, follow me.
No, what I'm saying.
Right.
Because I own a company.
Right.
If somebody goes, Roll, that was a great show.
To them, that was a great show.
To me, I'm looking at the show a different way.
I'm looking at graphics, speed of playing clips.
I'm looking at that.
So I may not say it's a great show.
That's why I'm saying it is subjective based upon who is answering that particular question.
So you may have numerous studies or surveys, just like I love these surveys when they say the greatest, the cities with the best food.
You go, huh?
How the hell is that city number three?
I've been there.
Again, it's subjective.
And so that's all I'm saying.
When I'm looking at something like your question about COVID, it varies depending upon what you think was the most important thing.
That's all I'm saying.
So I'm not saying that city was all for it.
That state was bad.
It's the first time California has lost its population since 1851.
You said because whites are not having babies.
No, That's not what I said.
No, that's not what I said.
Say again, no.
What did you say?
No.
What did you say?
Are you actually actively listening?
This is what I'm saying.
What I'm saying is when something happened, like losing this extreme people since this, my first thing is, hmm, why?
You haven't said that.
You haven't said it.
Why?
It's the second question.
You got to be deeper than mustard on a hot dog.
Okay?
Again, for me, when I see something, I go, why?
When I saw, I remember watching 60 Minutes and China's one-child deal.
I was kind of like, hey, it might look good right now, but trust me, it's going to catch up.
So a couple months ago, when I saw they were complaining about the lack of folks working in manufacturing facilities, and I was like, you can trace what's happening with China's population right now to that one-child policy because that's 30 years of kids never being born.
So what I'm saying is we got to be deeper than just throw it out there.
We tried to.
We got to ask the question, why?
I've been asking you.
It's not true.
Why question?
When you threw out crime, I walked through what is happening.
When you said, I specifically said, here are the reasons why.
Why?
Why?
It's Austin's fault.
It's Republicans' fault.
It's not the state's fault.
It's this.
There was no answer.
So you just didn't like the answer.
I don't like the answers.
I'm genuinely trying to find out what policies are going to make this better or step out of the way.
And I said, I told you, you asked the question and I say it point blank.
If you're talking about how do you impact African Americans and how do you change, I walk you through four of them.
I was very specific.
Economics, education.
Systemic was your first.
Well, obviously systemic because systemic is actually what's driving the macro.
Okay.
So you got to deal with that.
You got to.
So again, economics, you got to deal with health, education, housing.
Those are the fundamental four.
During the first Reconstruction period after slavery, 10 to 12 years, 1865 to 1877, you had probably the greatest growth, if you will, in terms of African American community.
But it didn't last long because the Great Compromise of 1877, which then ushered in Jim Crow for 92 years.
Then you had your second Reconstruction, which was the Black Freedom Movement, some call the Civil Rights Movement, 1955 to 1968.
Those were laws being changed.
In the first one, 13th, 14th, 15th Amendment, and the second, Civil Rights Act, Voting Rights Act, Fair Housing Act.
The problem with those two is that economics wasn't one.
The Freedmen's Bank was created in the Reconstruction period.
Guess what?
What is now estimated based upon hearing Lewis Skipgate's documentary, $3 billion in black S assets were essentially wasted or stolen and was never a bank bailout.
$3 billion.
What would the black community look like that $3 billion wasn't essentially stolen?
What would the black community today look like if Tulsa wasn't burned down, if Rosewood wasn't burned down?
What would black community look like today if African Americans who own land in the South were not run out of cities and towns, leaving land threatened by the Klan with death?
What would that look like?
And what I'm laying out to you is that's history.
You talk about Iran, okay?
We helped overthrow Mosadai in 1953.
They were pissed off with that crap in 1979.
You know what Americans do?
It's a damn shame what happened to our embassy in 1979.
We can't act like what happened in 53 didn't matter because you were 18 and 53.
You were middle-aged when you were in 1979.
What I'm saying is when I'm looking at the condition, I can't be narrow in looking at it.
I have to look at how that was created.
And if I deny how it was created, I can't have a real conversation on how to fix it.
Yeah.
But I gave you four.
Right.
So, Tyree Nichols, first time you saw it, what was your reaction?
First, you heard the story, then when they released the video, what was your reaction?
I actually was not shocked.
In fact, they described it as worse than Rodney King.
And I thought that, but when I saw it, and again, I had his daughter, Rodney King's daughter on my show.
I'm not comparing the two.
It wasn't as worse as Rodney King, but it was still pathetically awful.
Rodney King lived.
Tyree Nichols died three days later, but Rodney King also died early because of the massive trauma he sustained, the head trauma, and had physical ailments from the rest of his life.
So, but the thing I also realized is why that didn't shock me.
Folks like, it were black cops.
I'm like, oh, y'all thought it was a black, white thing?
It's always been a blue thing.
It's always been a blue thing.
Because we have to deal with what happens in police departments.
I've talked to too many chiefs who are grossly greatly frustrated because people think, oh, change the police chief.
You know any company.
You can be the CEO, giving order.
With your middle management, don't force it to happen.
And the next level doesn't happen.
We have to con all this, oh, we got good apples and bad apples.
It's BS.
Because what's the fundamental thing that happens in police departments?
I ain't going to, what do they say?
Let's get rid of stop snitching.
The greatest don't snitch is in police departments.
Cops are scared.
Cops won't come forward to call another cop out because they're going to get ostracized.
That's an issue.
I've long said, if you have body cameras and dash cams, if that cop turns it off or doesn't turn it on, automatic firing.
Why are you turning it off?
Why are you not turning it on?
In Chicago, they were breaking the antennas off of the dash cams so it wouldn't record.
Yeah.
Those cops are doing that.
Why did Anita Alvarez and actually why Lord Life get elected?
Because they held that LaQuan McDonald Tate for a whole damn year, knowing the cops were lying.
Knowing.
Knowing they were lying.
And when that video was released, we actually saw.
So we see too often in this country where cops are lying on police reports.
Look at the Tyree Nichols police report.
Oh, he was sweating profusely.
He was abusive.
Then we see the body cam footage.
So what does that tell you when you see case after case after case after case of cops lying on reports?
The body camera video is showing this here.
You have a systemic problem.
And then the answer isn't just, hey, let's have more training.
No, I believe what retired LAPD Sergeant Cheryl Dorsey said.
There's got to be annual, she says every two year, mental evaluations of police officers.
There are people, they got a badge and a gun.
Man, the power that they have, think about it.
They have the power to literally take your life and go back to work.
I believe you got that kind of power that comes with great responsibility, and I don't play around with that.
And it's just, we've got to deal with this here because last year, the most people killed by cops in history was last year.
Why?
How do we change it?
How do we fix it?
How do we change somebody?
The white guy who's partially blind coming from jury duty and they walk up to him.
I think that was here in Florida, I think.
And like, you got a weapon.
No, I got my blind stick.
And they literally arrest the dude.
He was just coming from jury duty.
They're cops that abuse their power.
We got to deal with that.
And we got to just be honest about it.
Yeah, I was a victim of police brutality when I was, I want to say 16 years old, Halloween, you know, hands on the car.
And I remember seeing hands on the car, mistaken identity.
The rookie comes out of the car, kicks my ankle, and almost breaks my ankle.
I agree with the only thing that sucks when you come to this is they're human beings at the end of the day.
So when we have, I don't know, let's say how many cops are in America.
I'm just throwing, let's say, five million, right, Roland?
In that 5 million, I don't care how much we're going to do and how much we're going to trade.
The human element is still there.
It just sucks unless we're going to have robots at some point.
Here's the you have a human element.
Yes.
But what we have to do is stop acting like, well, I think it was in Connecticut.
That's where I was.
It was a black guy.
This is the video.
He's get on your knees.
He's literally, his hands up.
He's going on his knees.
Cops rare back, kicks him in the head.
Knocks him unconscious.
I saw that.
Goes to trial.
Not guilty.
You're like, well, I'm sorry.
Yeah, those kids.
Chelsea.
And so what happens is, so what happens is, and I can tell you, been in Chicago for six years, when they came in, the Justice Department, cops are like, oh, yeah.
Yeah, we regularly will call, use the N-word.
Yeah, we wrecked.
They admitted, yeah, we would pick up a gang member and we would drop them off in a rival neighborhood just to see what happens.
Okay, I know you think it's a game.
What the hell?
The Holman Street facility where lawyers didn't even know that their clients were being held.
You're like, that's why I'm talking about what I'm talking about.
China.
It's like, what the hell?
When Chicago had to pay out 40 million in reparations because John Bird took Vietnam era tactics and was attaching electrical cords to the testicles of these men to forced confessions.
And they knew it all of these years.
These guys were sitting in prison for 10 and 15, 20 years, and they knew it was forced confession.
There was a judge in Chicago a couple of years ago, maybe it was a year ago.
He got so pissed.
He had eight cops who were flat out lying.
The judge went to the police accountability board and said, these cops are flat out lying on the witness stand.
The judge was so offended.
That's why Kim Fox, that's why Shan Brayboy and Prince George, they literally say, these cops will, we will not, they will never take the stand because they are known lies.
Now, again, somebody will say, well, Roland, you know, look, it's not all cops, but you don't want your kid to be on the receiving end of that lying cop.
That is what has to change in this country.
The problem is, folks are like, well, you know, but, you know, it's just a few, you're like, a few?
Cleveland is under its second consent decree in 10 years.
Dude, what?
What the hell?
And again, that is a power thing.
You know what I like the most?
You know what I like the most?
Power thing.
What I think, by the way, there is the power thing.
I had a friend of mine who was a cop who was a sweetest guy.
When he became a cop, every year, he got more and more and more and more like, you know, let me tell you who I am and all this stuff.
And I'm like, you know what?
I said, one day, Satan got, listen, you're not the same guy.
I said, I don't like the way you're talking to your girl.
You seem like a little too hardcore right now.
This wasn't you.
You were the sweetest guy we had here.
And finally, he got fired.
He literally got fired.
But the reason why he got fired was for a different reason, was for steroids.
But he got fired.
Oh, yeah, that product hell, that product.
Not explaining.
I am not a fan of it.
Not using it.
Not using it.
Oh, distributing it.
Distributing it.
Oh, God.
So, anyway, so it didn't work out.
Kay and he got out.
We'd have the conversation.
I think the best thing that if you think about accountability-wise, the last 10 years, when it comes down to issues like this, no invention has been more to hold everybody accountable than camera phones.
Think about what that's done.
The fact that you are able to record and you see the story and the camera on the cops.
Well, Rialta.
It's getting a lot better.
The first police department was Rialta, California.
And when they went to body cameras, there was a 70%, I think it was like a 77% drop in the number of reports filed against cop for police abuse.
And it was a drop in the number of reports of the cops claiming folks were attacking them.
Yes, because you had the camera.
Great.
I love that.
The problem, the problem that we still, so, so, but here's the deal: but the cameras are not the panacea.
They are a tool.
But what's not, you say the phone, but what's now happening in various states like Arizona?
Oh, we're going to pass laws.
You can't record us.
See, now it's like, now it's, or, or no, no, you're going to be reasoning.
What do they say their reason is?
It's always a BS reason, but we know why.
What happened is you don't want to get recorded.
And so, look, it was, we talked about the power of the phone.
Yeah.
I'm flying in.
I'm flying, I don't know where the hell I'm flying.
I'm going through Chicago.
There's a shoe shine stand, but no person is there.
So this guy is sitting like on the where they shot in the shoe.
I got you.
We're sitting in one of the seats.
So he's on FaceTime, I think, with his wife or daughter or somebody.
So I walk up.
I said, excuse me, I won't take a seat.
Fuck you.
No, you're not sitting down here.
Fuck you.
I go, excuse me.
I go, I'm sorry.
Who are you talking to?
He stands up.
You're not fucking sitting here.
I go, let me get airport police.
I said, I'm not done dealing with you today.
And so then, okay.
And so he goes, I said, let me explain something to you.
You're lucky I have all of the grace of Jesus today.
I said, I could have pulled my phone out and I could have made your ass real popular in 30 seconds.
Do you know how lucky you are today?
But I said, no, no, no, no.
I want you to understand.
Now, mind you, while I'm talking, hey, Roland, love your work.
Hey, Roke, black guy come, white guy walk by.
So now all of a sudden he's like, I said, do you understand?
I got 4 million followers.
You almost lost your job today.
Oh, no, no.
I'm sorry.
You sit down.
I said, no, no, no.
You need to ask yourself, why did you decide just to cuss me out?
I said, you lucky I didn't pull my two phones out.
A lot of these places, they don't want people recording because they don't want the truth.
And that's my problem with the bills.
Now, you want to say, hey, you can't be in three feet.
That's fine.
Because you're saying you're.
No, that's not what a lot of these folks are trying to do.
They don't want.
This is Arizona.
I think it's Arizona.
Is it passed?
Yeah.
Oh, it passed.
And more states are looking at that because they don't want that accountability.
And it's increasing.
And again, I've supported body cameras, but I've also said if you're a cop, the moment you get in that car, click, it's on.
Everything's recorded.
I don't know if y'all saw the story where the cops didn't realize their body cameras were on and they were stealing money.
Oh, yeah, I just saw that.
Yeah.
And they went.
Oh, shit.
Yeah, it's already too.
It's a wrap.
Well, that's how I think it was insane.
The female cop, she was busted using the N-word because the body cameras recorded.
Okay.
And again, I just simply say, if you turn it on, it's eight feet.
It's eight feet of the police.
Yeah.
That's what it is.
Because at that point, you can record.
They just don't want you to close it.
They don't want you close.
And I agree because it's wrong.
No, no, but though, some states were actually talking about blocking people from accidentally.
Which is ridiculous.
That's ridiculous.
It's interfering with their official police duty.
That to me, I'm saying that's wrong.
Yeah.
There has to be accountability.
I think camera is keeping all of us honest.
But the problem is, you might have that video.
Yeah.
But still, now you got to get to, is the DA going to take it to the grand jury?
Because it's a lot of DAs don't want to piss.
Yeah, but you know what's changed.
And then you go, let's say you do go to trial, like the Connecticut story.
There have been examples where you're sitting at home going, look, I don't know how in the hell this guy's going to get off.
But a jury, it's because in this country, we give so much authority to police.
So much authority to police that people, the human part, which is why, and a lot of times the charges will get downgraded by the jury.
Yeah, I'm not, we're not comfortable convicting them on first degree or second degree murder.
So let's take it down to manslaughter.
And so we still have this thing in America here.
Yeah, but it's the cops.
You know why I disagree?
Let me tell you why.
Juries have said it.
No, no, I understand juries said it, but here's the problem.
Here's the progress.
My biggest thing is progress.
I think we're making a lot of progress.
I did think that we're making a lot of progress.
Hold up.
Why?
I'll tell you.
I think we're making a lot of progress because it's preventing both sides to make up any stories.
Okay.
So say the jury says, nah, we're not going to do it.
No problem.
Just post it on Facebook.
Hold up.
Post it on Facebook.
Post it on Twitter.
It gets millions on top of millions of people.
But it doesn't matter, though, if we see the video.
Again, I'm just connecting an example.
We see the video.
It gets posted.
They go to trial.
Found out guilty.
And you're going, how did y'all see?
What were y'all looking at?
And so then it becomes that person was never held accountable.
Then it becomes like Tamir Rice.
That's areas we need to.
That's areas.
No, no, but I asked you, you said it's improving, but why?
Wait, so to ask me the question, why not?
You're saying it's not.
No, I'm not saying that.
Why is it improving?
I'm saying I give you my answer.
Go ahead.
What do you think it is?
Because publicly, you can't deny what we saw.
When the video came out for Tyree Nichols, that day, nobody was a Republican, Democrat, independent.
Because here's the deal: here's the deal.
Examples like that, just flat out.
But, but, like, even the fraternal order police released a statement, which they never do.
Here's actually why it's gotten better.
Because I'm about to drive you crazy.
It's gotten better because Lightfoot.
No.
Because of activists on the ground that have been demanding accountability.
Tifa.
No, no, no, see, no, you said Antifa.
That have been demanding accountability, that have been going to those city council meetings, those state legislatures, and we started throwing out hardcore right-wing prosecutors.
And you begin to have prosecutors.
No, no, no.
So that's why.
No, no, no.
I'm trying to tell you.
Can you please send those activists to those 27 cities?
I'm trying to tell you.
First of all, you clearly don't understand about Chicago because they've been on Lightfoot's ass from day one.
What I'm saying is, what I'm saying is, activists.
She gets re-elected.
Dude, first of all, the polling right now shows in fourth place.
I know, I saw that.
Which is good.
Yeah, but she's good.
She's so.
I know what's happening on the ground in Chicago.
You ain't understand that.
Here's the deal.
Activists have played a role in changing public perception.
A huge, huge role.
And so we cannot, I love people who want to deny the role of activism and Marxism protesting, but that's a huge reason why public perception.
That's all you want.
Just don't hurt your cities and go into Louis Vuitton stores and anything like that.
If you don't do that, go for it.
Keep doing it.
You know what I like about what Tyree Nichols' mom said?
Here's what I like about what Tyree Nichols' mom said.
She said, protest, but please don't hurt our cities.
Dude, we understand all that.
What a great thing she said.
Duh, but how about this here?
Don't kill somebody.
So we don't even get to that.
See, I love folk who love, say, oh my God, don't tear anything down, don't burn anything down.
How about you don't kill anybody?
Because here's the one thing here.
You can run this.
Here we go.
Surprise.
I'll surprise you.
I don't think you will.
I know what you.
Do you know what was the precursor to nearly every riot in the 60s?
Tell me.
Police violence.
Okay.
Nearly every single one.
Jimmy Lee Jackson and Selma killed by cops.
When you look at what happened in Detroit, what happened in LA?
What happened to Harlem?
It's 2023.
No, I'm giving you historical.
I'm trying to walk you through what preceded the riots.
In nearly every case, it was police violence.
Even Dr. King, when he went to L.A. after the Watts riots, he thought, oh, I thought Los Angeles was the land of golden opportunity.
He did not realize how deep the racism was in Los Angeles.
What I'm saying is we should be thankful for the people who took to the streets, the activists, the folks who rallied around Black Lives Matter, the people who organized and protested because the system has to change.
And the system only changes when the people put pressure on the system.
If the activists are listening, please go to those 27 cities and demand change.
I'm begging you.
Please go to those 27 out of 30 cities because they also are to go to those cities.
They need help.
So those same activists can get to the future.
Contact for friend Roland for your list of 27 people.
First of all, you didn't realize I've actually talked to them.
They're there.
And they're in Mississippi fighting the worst penitentiaries there as well, where Republicans are running it.
And Tennessee.
Let me tell you what I like.
And Georgia.
Let me tell you what I like.
And Arkansas.
Let me tell you what I like about it.
And Tennessee.
You know what I like about today?
I like the fact that you came.
Period.
But let me tell you why I respect that.
Why?
I didn't.
Well, on Twitter, this is how it started.
The Twitter was, I asked, and I said, hey, who would you like to see on the podcast next?
Okay.
And then your name was tagged.
Roland, Roland, you never want.
And then you said anytime, any place.
And I said, book them.
And then boom.
By the way, we don't even do podcasts on Mondays, but he just booked it.
He says, we got it on Monday.
And you coming out having this conversation.
I was honored by the Trayvon Martin Foundation last night.
I think the audience won today, okay?
For listening to this conversation.
And you know what's going to happen.
They're going to say, damn, Roland was right.
He was killing himself.
I'm letting you know.
I think they're going to say, this man's got the biggest ego in media.
They're going to say, you weren't listening.
He kept answering your question.
Well, I think the people, the people I want to hear from are the people in the middle who both disagreed with me and with you.
The people who agree with everything you say, who agree with you, I'm not.
I'm just letting you know right now.
And the people that are on the other side?
I'm letting you right now.
The mill is going to disagree.
Are they going to agree with me?
I'm just letting you know right now.
The who is?
The middle.
And the right.
I'm just letting you know right now.
The middle's going to agree with you.
I'm trying to let you.
I'm trying to let you down right now because it's going to be rough for you.
You think so?
Like, damn, what?
What more could I have done?
I don't know if I agree with you.
I guarantee you.
But you know what?
The fact that I know you need it more than I do, because my confidence is okay, I'll give it to you.
No, I don't need it.
You're right.
Because here's the deal.
You are right, Roland.
Here's the deal.
You are right.
Here's what you understand.
You're amazing.
You're the greatest.
Here's the thing.
I didn't even pull y'all up.
No, no, no.
Seriously.
When my publicists, she was like, oh, here the topics.
I was like, I don't need the topics.
I'm like, I don't care what.
You understand.
When I was at the CNN, Bill Bennett was supposed to be James Carville and me.
And Bill Bennett goes, I'm not going on.
It's two against one.
I was like, Bill, you're a punk.
I said, Bill, if it's five against one, I said, I feel sorry for y'all five.
I said, why are you scared?
So for me.
I had a rough showing today.
So for me.
This was a rough showing for you today.
Oh, not at all.
Oh, it was a rough.
Oh, not at all.
You've done better than today.
Not at all.
You've done much better than today.
Not at all.
I know you don't want to hear it because you've been like this since you're great, but you had a rough day today.
No, no, I didn't.
I had a great day.
Okay.
Because guess what?
We still world champs.
But they did cheat against the.
Come on.
Let's be honest.
They cheated and they all got in trouble and nothing really happened to any of them.
And did the Yankees have a letter sent to them that they fought not to be released?
In fact, didn't Will Clark say, hell, if you ain't cheating, you ain't playing?
I don't agree with any of that.
But guess what?
Who whooped that ass this year?
I don't want to talk about that.
Hey, once a cheater, always a cheater.
Great, great.
Who got that broken stadium y'all got here in my greatest rocket of all time?
Greatest rocket of all time.
All time.
Oh, easy.
I keep Elijah Wand.
Okay, got it.
I was saying that.
We agree with that.
Second is Moses Malone.
Oh, wow.
Third is Calvin Murphy.
All three in the Hall of Fame.
Interesting.
Fourth.
Fourth is some will say James Harden.
I wouldn't.
I wouldn't count.
I mean, I don't know if you count Drexler at the end.
You probably might put Harden ahead of him.
No, you can't put Drexler.
Drexler played most of his crew in Portland.
Let's play down.
No, I would put a heart in the fourth.
Now, some would put a heart in before Calvin Murphy, but I wouldn't.
So you don't even count Barkley for that one or two seasons offense.
It's got to be majority.
I got you.
How do you count?
Okay.
No.
Rick Berry played for the Rockets.
I wouldn't count Rick Brown.
Greatest defender.
Greatest defender.
Rockets.
Greatest defender for the Rockets.
Oh, it's Elijah Wand.
Elijah Wand is the only center in the top 10 in Steels all time.
Wow.
Top.
Didn't he one time get his quadruple double?
And yes.
And top 10 block shots.
Oh, no.
He is.
Michael Jordan.
Michael Jordan has talked about his defense.
Dude, quadruple double is ridiculous.
No, Elijah Wand, in terms of just pure defense.
Do we have a book?
Roland, if you don't mind sharing with us your book, White Fear.
How the Browning of America is Making White Folks Lose Their Minds, like this conversation.
Losing their minds.
Because I cut right to the chase of unpacking all of this stuff that's going on right now and this fear.
Oh, my God.
You know, again, the utter nonsense of a critical race theory and this silly stuff with the sadness in woke.
No, what it is, is that folks, they don't want to accept that America is changing and you can't do anything about it.
Guess what?
2043 is coming.
You stop having kids.
It ain't my fault.
But the bottom line is we're seeing it play out in policy decisions.
And what we've always, it was always, oh, economic anxiety.
No, no, you have to call it what it is.
And that's not a conservative thing.
I didn't say GOP white fear.
I said white fear.
It's real and it's playing out in our policies.
Because remember, January 6th, why was Trump pissed off?
He kept calling out four cities.
Atlanta, Milwaukee, Philly, Detroit.
What those four cities got in common?
Black people.
Only place in Wisconsin that had a partial recount, Milwaukee.
His official in Michigan said, let's count all of us in Michigan except Detroit.
Oh, it's real.
And when people, folks have been reading, they go, damn, I didn't actually connect those dots.
It's happening.
We have to have a conversation again about understanding power, the power dynamics.
Who thinks he's going to win in 2000?
Who thinks he's going to be the 24 frontrunner?
Who thinks he's going to win?
Like, you literally have no idea.
Remember, 2016, who did everybody say were going to likely be the top two candidates?
Minnesota governor Tim Palinti and Wisconsin governor Scott Walker.
Who are the first two that dropped out?
Both.
Tim Palenti and Scott Walker.
Like literally, that's the one thing that, look, 2020, who hit the two highest rated town halls of MSNBC and CNN?
Kyle Harris.
What happens?
So again, when you run, Elizabeth Warren runs in 2020.
She should have ran in 2016.
I think Elizabeth Warren ran 2016.
She beats Hillary Clinton in the primaries.
Oh, wow.
Flat out.
She missed her moment.
Ted Kennedy told Obama in 2007: there's no guarantee that you're going to be hot later.
You run at your hottest.
And that's what he did.
Kennedy realized it.
He realized how he screwed it.
But that's the whole deal.
So you just can't.
You can't run.
Yeah, DeSantis has to run because he's hot.
But here's the deal, though.
He runs.
You're running against somebody who doesn't care.
He has no bottom.
People say, we've reached the bottom.
Trump has no bottom.
He's literally, I don't think they're full.
If you thought how he treated Christian, the rest of these cats at 16, no, he has no bottom.
He will obliterate the party.
And the problem is, his core supporters, they're rolling with him.
I think he would do a third-party challenge if he doesn't win the nomination.
That ego is that unbelievably crazy because for him, I got to destroy you.
Of course.
He ain't thinking party.
You're not fucked up.
They got to absolutely.
You got a little bit of Trump in you.
You got to get out of your mind.
You got a little bit of Trump in you.
First of all, it's kind of like he wrote.
First of all, if I had, hell no.
First of all, when I sat there in the White House.
Tell me you don't like read Wardo the deal like five, six times a year.
He didn't write it.
He didn't write it.
And now we know he damn sure lied about the value of all his damn properties.
But even in the White House, when he met with T-Van, because I was sitting here going, this is an idiot sitting with a lot of damn power.
And you admire him this much.
You out of your mind.
First, okay, this is a true story.
He walks in.
You know, normally the president walks in, everybody stands up.
Everybody moves this way.
I was like that scene out of The Simpsons.
Like, I went.
So I like, I backed up, but I was sitting there.
I'm like, well, he got to come this way anyway.
I'm like, I'm not walking to him.
So he's shaking hands.
I'm like, I can't call this son of a bitch, Mr. President.
Then I went, hell, I can't call him Mr. So now I'm standing there like, what the hell am I going to call this dude?
No, he's, he was.
That's crazy.
No, he has, the man has, the man has no character.
That's crazy.
No, I don't, I told you point blank, when you show who you are, I don't want evil around me.
And when he walked up to me, I went, hi.
You think he's evil?
Oh, hell yes.
Wow.
That man is absolutely evil.
Interesting.
When you will, the people who you work with, how you will destroy them, how you will treat them, that man is pure trash.
But the people who care about the power, oh, first of all, you look at Christie.
I'm like, dude, you kissed his ass so much, and he still talked about your weight, blew you off.
I mean, just dismissed you, and they kept coming back for more abuse.
Who do you think?
If you had to, if you had to, Roland, right now, pick who would be the number one Democratic person, because I don't believe in the Biden, I don't think, because they're openly trying to just destroy him right now with all these, who's running?
Who would you say would be the number two guy then?
You can't, you can, here's it again.
If you had to guess, I'm going to say what I've said in the previous elections.
The reason you can't even just throw it out there, so many things change.
Who is the most, I would say, the most effective communicator is Buddha Judge.
What's going to happen?
You're a small town mayor, dude.
It's going to be held against you.
Okay?
Like it or not, him being gay, it's going to be held against it by some people.
It's a fact.
All right.
So then you go, well, you got Gretchen Whitmer, who's the governor of Michigan, who Biden was that close to picking as his VP.
All right.
And so you've got other people out there.
But the problem is, and this is the thing about when you run, you can look great on paper.
You can have all the right.
It's like hiring a candidate.
Oh, my God.
Let's hire this person.
And they get in the building and you're like, who the hell is this person?
Like, what happened to the person we interviewed?
So Fred Thompson, remember when he ran?
Oh, my God.
It's Reagan again.
The voice.
He was the worst campaigner ever.
Dudes in Iowa wanted to watch the Tennessee football game.
He didn't want to go shake hands.
It was awful.
Campaigns expose everything about you.
And again, you're great on paper.
So Obama, Obama, everybody forgets.
Everybody forgets Obama was down 20 points to Hillary in October of 2007.
Everybody forgets that.
He was not breaking through until she screwed up the question about the driver's licenses for illegal immigrants at the debate in Iowa.
That's what cracked the door open.
Trump, he's not going to win.
Biden.
Oh, no way in the hell Joe's going to win.
So think about it.
Conventional wisdom means nothing because the voters at a certain period of time see things totally different.
And conventional wisdom simply cannot predict any of that.
So who looks great right now gets grinded in that system.
And so you just got to go through 23.
But I think absolutely, barring anything health-wise, Biden's running.
He's the president.
He controls the apparatus.
And if you try to run against him, you're going to get screwed because bottom line is the apparatus is going to say, what the hell are you doing?
You got to raise money.
You got to have votes.
And that's just not going to happen.
I just think, again, barring anything health-wise, he's going to be the nominee.
And all people talk about, hold up.
Common is not going to be the bid.
Yes, you will.
It's going to be Biden Harris.
Again, barring anything health.
Got you.
It's Biden Harris.
They got to live with it.
Yeah, he's going to be 82, but the bottom line is: hey, that's what happened when you look at somebody who's 78.
You didn't say anything about Newsome.
No, Gavin?
Gavin?
Okay.
Why didn't I say Gavin Newsome?
Gavin Newsome is not going to run.
It will be political suicide.
Suicide.
Why would you say that?
I'm just curious.
Because he can't win.
But assume, assume.
Assume Biden does have a health issue or maybe something.
That is wide open.
That is wide open.
So then Newsom has a shit.
No, no, no.
If Biden has a health issue, right?
That's what I'm asking.
The race is wide open.
Will Vice President Kamala Harris run?
Absolutely.
This is this is if Biden has a health issue and he announces I'm not seeking re-election, the Democratic race is wide open.
There is no, will Newsom jump in?
Yes.
Will Buddha Judge jump in?
Yes.
Will Vice President Harris jump in?
Yes.
Will Whitmer likely jump in?
Yes.
Potentially Shapiro, the governor of Pennsylvania.
Yes.
I think Westmore and Shapiro probably be in.
They'll be too young because they'll be barely into their governorship.
But oh no, folks are going to run.
But he clears the debt right now.
But health-wise, it's wide open.
Got you.
Great having you on, brother.
This was great.
Appreciate you.
If you want to get his book, Robert, let's make sure we put in the chat as well as in our description so people can get it.
White Fear: How the Browning of America is Making White Folks Lose Their Minds.
Lose their minds.
And that photo is from January 26th.
There you go.
Got cut to the chase.
Yes.
We'll put the link below.
Go order it.
Roland, once again, thanks for coming.
Also on Audible.
On Audible as well.
By the way, put the link to his podcast for people that can find his podcast too.
For those who can't read, we have an audible version for you.
