PBD Podcast | EP 124 | The Rational Male: Rollo Tomassi
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PBD Podcast Episode 124. In this episode Patrick Bet-David is joined by author of the #1 Best Selling book series, "The Rational Male" Rollo Tomassi and Adam Sosnick
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About Guests:
Sometimes called the "Godfather of the Red Pill", Rollo Tomassi has been a permanent fixture in the 'Manosphere' for 20 years. With a focus on evolutionary psychology and objectivism, Rollo brings a pragmatic, nuts & bolts, approach to intersexual dynamics, men and women's innate natures and their effects on today's society. Connect with him on instagram here: https://bit.ly/3HzLNU8
Adam “Sos” Sosnick has lived a true rags to riches story. He hasn’t always been an authority on money. Follow Adam on Instagram: https://bit.ly/2PqllTj. You can also check out his weekly SOSCAST here: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLw4s_zB_R7I0VW88nOW4PJkyREjT7rJic
Connect with Patrick on social media: https://linktr.ee/patrickbetdavid
About the host:
Patrick Bet-David is the founder and CEO of Valuetainment Media, the #1 YouTube channel for entrepreneurship with more than 3 million subscribers. He is the author of the #1 Wall Street Journal bestseller Your Next Five Moves (Simon & Schuster) and a father of 2 boys and 2 girls. He currently resides in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida.
Bet-David is passionate about shaping the next generation of leaders by teaching the fundamentals of entrepreneurship and personal development while inspiring people to break free from limiting beliefs to achieve their dreams.
Follow the guests in this episode:
Rollo Tomassi: https://bit.ly/3HzLNU8
Adam Sosnick: https://bit.ly/2PqllTj
To reach the Valuetainment team you can email: info@valuetainment.com
Check out PBD's official website here: https://bit.ly/32tvEjH
0:00 - Start
0:59 - How Rollo Tomassi Became "The Rational Male"
7:14 - Who agrees with the book and who disagrees
9:21 - The difference between 'Red pilled' and 'Blue pilled'
12:40 - The different phases of men and women
21:58 - How we know when men find women the most attractive
25:35 - How Rollo Tomassi lives as a married man in his profession
28:41 - What can one person do to improve their sexual market value?
38:38 - How does money factor into relationships?
46:04 - How do you determine what will work for your life?
57:56 - Is Rollo Tomassi simply threatened by powerful women?
1:01:31 - What does Rollo Tomassi tell his daughter?
1:06:01 - Attraction floors for men vs. women
1:09:04 - Why are open relationships so popular?
1:17:24 - Transitioning from single life to married life
1:49:03 - Should divorce ever be an option?
Okay, folks, today's episode 124 is with Rola Tomasi, the rational male.
We're going to talk about what it is to be alpha, what it is to be beta.
I think the question of the day, to be honest with you, everybody wants to know what is a soy boy.
Especially for our time, for our podcast, it's a critical guess or no.
Everybody's going to be a little bit more.
We're talking about this.
We're still talking about it.
Soyboy mafia.
We're going to talk about the black pill.
We're going to talk about a lot of pills that apparently people are taking, the blue, the red, the black.
Apparently, there's a white pill.
I wanted to get your thoughts on that.
I know we got some current events that we're going to get into.
So having said that, the book, The Rational Male, okay, I think it's nine different things that you talk about in there.
There's a lot of things that you talk about in the middle.
There's a lot.
So how did you go?
How's a guy that's been married nearly for 30 years write a book about how to be an alpha male and rational male?
Well, first off, I think you need to define what is an alpha male, what is a beta male.
When I talk about alpha or beta, I'm talking about it in abstract terms.
So it's not like the comparison isn't we're like silverback gorillas or wolves on the Arctic tundra or something like that.
It's a placeholder term.
It's an abstraction.
To say there are guys who are of a higher class or of a higher value than there are of guys who are just sort of around the mill guys, average men right now.
So when you say something like alpha or beta, people want to turn it into sort of like scientific terms, like etymological terms, right?
They want to say, well, you guys are just comparing yourselves to gorillas or something like that.
It has nothing to do with it whatsoever.
So defining what that is, the book is not necessarily meant to say, okay, here's how you be an alpha male kind of thing.
What my work has done over the course of the last 20 years now has been to explore intersexual dynamics as a part of that.
Yes, male nature is a part of that.
Female nature is a part of that.
And how do those two natures play on each other?
And how do they do that from a macro, or excuse me, a micro level to a macro level?
So all the way down to what is it that makes a guy attractive?
What is it that makes a woman attractive?
And then from that point forward, it's how do they come together?
How do they have sex?
How do they form families?
And from those families, how do they form tribes?
From those tribes, how do they form nations?
And on and on and on.
But you have to go all the way back and sort of distill it down to the intersexual dynamics between men and women.
And that's what I attempted to do in the first book.
And then I've got, well, three other books since then that are supplements to the first book.
Rolo, before you became this rational male, like you guys were kind of doing a community college competition over here, who had a better community college upbringing and passing this.
Passing this on the PCC, right?
We came to blows.
But was this, did you go to school for this?
Did you learn on the go?
Were you out with your party guy?
Well, like, as Pat always asked, like, who were you in high school?
Like, did you have a situation that happened?
You're like, a girl broke your heart.
Like, that's never going to happen again.
Everyone.
How did this happen?
Okay, so this is standard.
Was this a standard question 101?
Okay, so first thing is, I've been married for 25 years as of July of last year.
Awesome.
So thank you.
And so people always ask me that, how did you come into this, you know, this situation?
Did somebody break your heart?
Was there some point like, well, how did you get red-pilled kind of thing?
And it was more like a slow process, not necessarily some sort of breakup or anything.
There's no catalyst to, you know, oh, well, I'm going to, this is going to make this my life's mission.
It wasn't about that.
It was just curiosity for a very long time.
I grew up, as I said, in Southern California.
I was part of like, say, the late 80s, early 90s, you know, metal scene that was going on in Hollywood at the time.
Thanks.
And so from there, you know, I kind of got my act together after a while.
I mean, I've been through bad breakups just like anybody else has, but that was not necessarily the catalyst for me to say, okay, this is what I'm going to do.
I have had a very, I say, unique set of circumstances over the course of my life.
So going from that situation from Southern California, just sort of being a kid, really in my 20s, wanting to have a good time, wanting to party, wanted to get, you know, it certainly wasn't about the money back then.
It was more about getting laid.
So that was my impetus at that point.
And then, of course, you mature, you get a little bit older.
You know, I met my wife in Lake Tahoe area.
And so from that point, you know, you have kids and you sort of reassess where it is and what you want to do and set goals for yourself and sort of mature.
I'm Generation X, so maybe that had something to do with it as well.
But it's a very good question.
We have a lot of listeners.
They're what, 18 to 40, give or take for the most part.
Some are single, some are getting out of college, some are in relationships, some are married.
What's the outcome of this conversation, just so we're all on the same page?
Is it to expose what's really going on out there?
Are you going to drop some knowledge?
Hey, this is what you guys got to do to improve your life.
Where are we going?
Just so we can set the tone of this.
This entire conversation.
So if there is a purpose or a point to my writing, it is to educate.
It is to educate guys, to give them the tools so that they can make informed decisions when it comes to their personal life, first and foremost.
And second of all, from that point, where do you go from there?
How do you change your life?
I am not in the business of making men better men.
I am in the business of giving men the tools so that they can make themselves better men.
I'm in the business of not prescriptions, but descriptions.
And so what happens is then people will take those, guys will take those and better their lives, save their own lives in many instances as well.
And then it's not just about getting laid.
A lot of people want to mischaracterize what it is that I do and say, well, it's just those pickup artists.
It's just those, we're talking about pickup artists in 2022, about pickup artists that were in the scene back in 2002.
So we're talking about 20 years.
The game, by the way, was published in 2005.
All the events in there took place between like, say, 20 or 2002 and 2005.
So fair to say the game has changed.
Very much so.
And that's, I think we want to run back to that when we want to mischaracterize, when we want to just dismiss and ridicule all of that.
But it has matured to the point where it used to be just about PUA and like, how do I get laid?
Guys come together on forums.
They start comparing notes.
It's sort of this aggregate of information between guys all over the world.
Well, it's the first time in history where we had the internet where guys could get together and sort of compare notes all over the world.
And from that point, it snowballed from there into how do I live a better life?
How do I find, if that's what they wanted to do, how do I find a girlfriend?
It's not all about notch count.
A lot of guys use the red pill just so they can get a girlfriend in the first place or go from being a quote-unquote perma virgin to getting a girlfriend or getting into a situation where they're in a relationship at that point.
So it's all about what you do with it rather than, okay, well, this is the point.
This is the importance of it.
It doesn't have any particular point to it.
It's a praxology, not an ideology.
Got it.
So question for you.
This book, Rational Male.
Who agreed with you?
Who disagreed with you?
Who said that you agree with what he has to say?
Dude, the guy's full of shit.
He has no clue what he's talking about.
You write books.
You're going to have people from both sides.
Absolutely.
Who liked it who hates it?
Still do.
Still do.
It's mostly guys that hate it.
Really?
Yes.
Interesting.
Yeah.
I'll tell you a really quick, funny story here.
When I was writing the second book, which is Preventive Medicine, it's a timeline and everything that what to expect from women at certain phases of maturity.
I started that book with an introduction because I had a guy relate this story to me that he was reading the first book, Rational Male, and he was there checking it out on his couch or something.
His girlfriend, his wife, whoever came in and said, you know, the rational male, there's no rational male, you know, laughing at it.
She's like, give me that.
I'll decide what this is all about.
The girl read it.
Yeah, the girl read it.
She grabbed it from him.
It took her like maybe three or four days to read it.
She just ate it up.
She comes back to the guy at the end of the week and she tosses it back to him.
She says, everything in that book is correct and you shouldn't know any of it.
And that was because it gives away the game.
It gives away the mechanics, the underpinnings of what's going on, sort of the dance between men and women.
And that's when I get hate from guys, it's usually because they don't know how to apply this or it conflicts with a very deeply held ideology.
Like they're ego invested in this, what we call the blue pill ideas, where it's like, this is what you've been taught from a societal perspective, from a Western societal perspective.
This is how men are.
This is how women are.
And this is what you can expect from them.
And then they'll get into that point where they have that bad breakup or they have that bad divorce or they're going through some kind of trauma.
And it's only at that point where they start questioning about, you know, was what I taught, you know, for real or not.
And so this, you know, the work that I do kind of steps in and fills in those blanks.
So I'm sure that a lot of our conversation is going to be based around the red pill and being red pilled and blue pill.
Apparently it's a black pill.
I don't know if it's a white pill, but would you break down what each of these pills are and exactly?
I wish we could get past the stupid pill thing.
Okay.
I really wish we could.
Okay, so first and foremost, the red pill in the way that I talk about it, I only refer to it in terms of intersexual dynamics.
Ever since we started using that terminology, and I can go back to my old forum posts from 2004 and show you the posts where we were talking about the matrix and unplugging it, because that was the closest analogy, workable analogy.
And so over the years, since I pegged at about 2004, over the years, it has morphed into like MRAs, MGTOWs, the black pill, which is a more like despondent, nihilistic doomers, the doom pill kind of thing, like a hopelessness.
And then there's the guys who are simply red pill where they take this information and they use it to their own benefit.
As far as a blue pill is concerned, we tend to refer to that as like your sort of upbringing, your understanding that society would like you to believe how things work.
A white pill is just something that's sort of, it's more like the purple pill at this point, where you got the red pill and the blue pill, and guys become red pill and they read the book and they become aware of intersexual dynamics, but it conflicts with their ideologies or their religions or their philosophies.
And so what they'll do is they'll pick and pull parts out of my book or whoever's podcast they happen to be watching and then use that and jump on top of that and then just reject whatever parts that don't fit in with their ideologies.
So really the white pill is just sort of this, it's meant to be sort of this positivity movement, but again, it just picks and pulls from red pill awareness, let's just say.
Again, I really wish we could get past the red pill because I remember back in like 2015, 2016, when Trump was running for office, everybody suddenly was red-pilled about politics or red-pilled about whatever, whatever your pet ideology happened to be.
And that was, you know, the blue pill was false and the red pill was true, then therefore, you know, the red pill became a verb.
You're saying that's a good idea.
You've got to hijack your phrases you've been using for a decade plus.
For instance, Candace Owens, when she was on Twitter, she used to call herself red pill black.
That was her handle on Twitter before she became Candace, right?
And so it was this appropriation of what seemed like a good tag or a hashtag or a buzzword that worked at that time.
Now, I would say that a lot of people will say, oh, I got red-pilled about politics.
I got red-pilled about this.
But it's not as, I guess, appropriating from what had come before it as it is right now.
So let's go back.
By the way, the purple thing, you know, the first thing I thought about when you said purple pill is being at the Mushroom Mountain a couple of times, once or twice, but nothing comes close to the yellow and purple pills, right?
You know who's going to be a little bit more.
Is this D12?
Is this Eminem?
That's where I went all the time.
That's where you stopped listening to that.
I went straight to yellow and purple pills.
Pat just busted it in the 2001 Eminem track.
Anyways, but going back to it.
So look, the one part I like how you explained the fact that women go through different phases.
So do men.
So, you know, for myself, I say, okay, I can see some of that stuff making sense to some people, and I totally can see that, meaning how men change once they get married, how women change once they get married.
And then, you know, some women are like, well, my man is no longer interested in me like he used to be.
And some men are like, well, you know, my girl's no longer, my woman's no longer interested in me like she used to be, right?
So if you don't mind going through the phases we go through.
So when I'm 18 years old, I'm in the Army.
You know, what do you have on, you know, there's only one thing on your mind, right?
That's reading a lot of business books.
I mean, obviously the only thing on my mind is really, I want to read business books, math analysis, trigonometry.
That was a main outcome of my life at that time.
I'm lifting weights.
I'm fired up.
I got a lot of testosterone running a bunch of miles every day.
And somehow, some way you got to release it.
So 18 to whatever age, then you get to a point, you look at the market and you say, okay, that girl chose that guy over me.
What the hell are we talking about here?
That guy is a schmuck, but he's making money and he's going to get over me.
This doesn't make any sense.
And I don't even like his attitude.
He's like, so, you know, okay, let me go try to see compete in a different way.
Then you go maybe a little bit more into career, you get focused.
And if you do it early on, you have the ability to win.
But what phases do men go through?
And if you can kind of go all the way through to maybe 50.
Sure.
And what phases do women go through?
I'd be really curious.
Okay, well, it's actually easier for me to start with women because the second book is exactly about that.
I pegged it as at a timeline.
Now, there is a very famous graph that I published way back in like 2013 or 2014.
It's two bell curves.
It's when women are at their peak of their sexual market value versus when men are at the peak of their sexual market value.
And in many different ways, men and women do not mature at the same rate.
Okay.
Even when it comes to like puberty, when it comes to, you know, like girls mature a lot faster than boys do and they get to a point where they're they're what you're what you're talking about yeah that's the one I'm talking about right David so they can see it go ahead keep going we're listening so I and I you know I tell you it's funny is when I was writing the essay where I put that out there I was like this is like in kind of instinctive to me and then a lot of people rammed me up the flagpole For putting this one out there.
And then, over the course of the last, say, like almost 10 years now, there's been so many data sets and so much research that backs this up.
And I almost get chills thinking how accurate it was when I was writing it.
But where I peg women as far as their peak sexual market value is right around 22 or 23 years old.
That's when men find women the most attractive across the board.
23, 24.
23, 24, right around there.
So 15 all the way up to 95.
That's the age at which men find women the most attractive.
For women finding men attractive, it staggers.
So statistically speaking, women find men three to seven years older than they are as more attractive.
Now, there's a difference between arousal and attraction.
And a lot of people sort of mistake this.
If you ask a woman, what do you find attractive in a man?
She's going to tell you all these long-term security traits that a guy has to have.
You say, what do you find around?
What gets you hot about a guy?
Let's see, he's got to have a V-taper.
He's got to have 26-inch guns.
He's got to have six-pack abs.
He's got to have a chiseled jawline.
That's a difference.
So when men get to be about 36 years old is when I peg them at being their sexual market value peak because that is assuming the man makes the most of his potential, developing himself, becoming something, lives up to his burden of performance, let's just say, at 36 to 37, somewhere in there, that's when he starts hitting his stride.
That's the point at which he has the potential to have the most of what makes him the most attractive to women overall.
So if you stay on your game, you're working out and you're on top of your business and you are on, you know, you have ambition, you have confidence, a lot of that takes a lot longer for men to develop than it does for women to get to their point of sexual marketability.
And so one of the things we always talk about in sort of the manosphere or the red pill communities is that men must become and women just are.
So when women get to the point where it's like they're at 23, that's when men want them the most.
So that's number one.
Men must become women just are.
So does that mean, just to stay on that, and I want you to continue.
So does that mean for a man to increase the market value, wait till a 36, 37?
I don't think that's what you're saying either.
No, no, no, but I'm saying that that's going to be the point at which you will have the potential to have the most of what will make you the most attractive.
That's based on what?
That's based on what?
Well, based on physicality, also the fact that women want a man who's older.
I think on an instinctive level, women want a guy who has more maturity, has more of a capability or proven capability to be the winner that they want to get with.
Well, those guys don't tend to be part of their own peer group.
They tend to be the guys who are more mature because they have had longer to, I don't know, become partner at the law firm or become a surgeon or whatever it is that they find is sort of status-wise as high value, but also to stay on top of their game, build themselves up and have a better judge of character.
There's a lot of things.
If you look at the prerequisites that women have on the most common dating sites, it is this laundry list of he's got to be funny.
He's got to be hot.
He's got to love his mom.
He's got to like puppies.
He's got to want kids.
He's got to have ambition.
He's got to be confident.
And just on and on and on and on.
For men, it's, she's got to be hot.
She's got to be available.
That's pretty much it.
And so when you go and you look at this, it's almost like filling out a job application when you're going on, say, like, you know, Tinder, well, not Tinder so much, but like, you know, an online dating, which is the number one way that men and women find each other today and start, you know, start dating.
So when you have that as sort of the prerequisite, well, women understand that it takes longer for men to develop into what's going to make them the most attractive and to mature into that.
And as a result, that has to coincide with what they're going through.
So when a woman is between, say, 18 and 28 years old, that's her peak window to find the guy that has the most of what she's going to need in the future.
So if you look at it this way, a woman between 18 and 28 years old, she's got about a 10-year window there to secure what she's going to need as long-term security for the rest of her life.
So that's a lot of, especially today, that's a lot of stress on women right now to find that guy.
So would it not stand to reason that they're going to look for a guy who is already a winner, a turnkey relationship where she can go and say, oh, you make a lot of money.
You've done a lot with yourself.
Yeah, I'm ready to ride or die with you.
Or she's going to have to look for a guy who has the potential to become that guy when he's 36, 37 years old at his peak.
So women will go through the phase of what I call it, I call it the party years.
I was just saying that it was if the point at which women are sort of like they have the most sexual selectivity during those years.
Other people will call it the hoe phase.
Not my words, their words.
And then they'll get to a point where it's 29 to about 31 years old, which is what I call the epiphany phase.
And that's when women go, I'm done with the jerks.
I don't want to have that anymore.
I want to do things right.
I want to get right with God.
I want to have a right relationship.
And unfortunately, in our Western society right now, that's often too late for women.
At 30, 31, 29, 30.
Well, I'm not saying necessarily it's the wall, like they don't look good anymore.
They do.
The wall, when we talk about the wall, the wall doesn't begin here.
It begins up here.
It's acknowledging that they are not as sexually competitive in the sexual marketplace at 33 as they were when they were 23.
You think that applies to today?
Absolutely.
With all the, what do you call it?
You know, plastic surgery or something?
Oh, yeah, there's ways to forestall that for sure.
Right.
But you're saying at 33, that's 30, 29 or 31, that's the age.
Well, for most women, their 33-year-old self could not compete on the same level in the sexual marketplace as her 23-year-old self.
Well, also, kids play a major factor in this.
Absolutely.
That decisions make it.
Not even so much what it does on your body.
Like, if I, like, I'm single, 41 now, 42, 43.
And at least according to certain online dating profiles, for three years in a row.
I'm 40 again, guys.
Congratulations.
By the way, we didn't even do a happy birthday here.
We took out a dinner.
Adam just had a birthday turned 40 years old for the first time in the last couple of years, whatever.
Anyway, it's Adam's birthday.
Do you lie on your dating profiles?
By one year, maybe.
Brother, this is about asking you a question.
It's always like, you know, but you know, if you want to keep going.
I'm actually curious because you said 30, you know, you're now at 29 to 31 years old.
You went to 36.
Well, male, you know, peak market value is 36 to 37 years old.
Female market value based on your rationale is 23 to 24.
Continue.
What happens after that?
Well, not necessarily my rationale.
This is backed up by research and data.
There's a great book called Data Clism, and it was written by the guy who was the founder, I believe, of OKCupid.
And today in the internet age, we now have data that we never had in the history of humanity right now, especially.
I don't know if you guys have, I brought this up when I was on You Are Here with Elijah Schaefer.
If you go and you look at the Porn Hub blog site, not the Porn Hub site, but all I do is watch the blog site.
Yeah, just read the blog.
They just produced the stats for 2021 of basically what were the search terms, what were the most misspelled search terms.
And by state, who looks for what.
And we have such accurate data of the market.
That tells you the peak market value is 29.
We've never had that.
We have never had that.
I can actually see that.
Well, I can actually see data upside down.
What were some of the biggest findings?
So, anyways, and I don't mean so much on the porn hub thing, but like in data clism, that's where I get that.
That's where the basis of the idea that men find that age of woman the most attractive because it's from their data sets.
For women, it's if the woman is like, say, 25, she's looking for a guy, the guy's more attractive, is about 27, maybe 28.
And then it staggers up at the older that woman gets, the older the men get.
So it's sort of this, you know, staggering.
For men, it's only 22, 23, 20, across the board from all the way from like 15-year-old guys in high school all the way up to 95-year-old guys in assisted living.
So that's everything I'm getting at here is not opinion pieces.
All of this is backed up by hard data that anybody can find, by the way.
We have Google right now.
I quote data sets from evolutionary psychologists, anthropologists, neuropsychologists, sociologists.
There's all kinds of data sets that we've never had before.
So it's not just me sort of pulling this out of my ass.
It is based on research that has been going on really in some cases since like the 70s, but all the way up to where we are right now.
So when we get to sort of what I call the epiphany phase, 29 to 31 years old, that's when women decide that that's, you know, I'm going to have to check out of the sexual marketplace.
I got to find a guy to go forward from here.
And that's when women will express the most frustration with men.
They will say, where are the nice guys?
Where are the guys that, how come these guys don't have their shit together?
How come they haven't gone to college?
How come I can't find the guy that I want to go forward into life with right now?
And that's a whole nother topic to get into when we talk about the crisis of masculinity.
But when they get to that point at 29 to 30, you know, three years old, somewhere around there, that is when the that's when that sort of angst comes in.
If you look at another data set, if you look at the average age of first marriage, it occurs right around 29.8, I think, or almost about 30 for men and about 28 to 29 years old for women today.
And that is in the United States.
It's even older in the UK.
So it's only a one-year difference is what you're saying.
That is exactly where I pegged it on that chart.
Exactly.
Now, you said you're Gen X, so you're give or take 50?
I'm 53.
53, looking good, bro.
And how much of an age difference between you and your wife?
Let's just say there's a three-year difference.
So let's just say there's a three-year difference.
So when she hears you use this terminology, 23, 25, is she like, Rolo, step into my office, mothersucker.
We have a problem here.
How do you grapple with that?
Being married.
Now do you have kids?
I have kids.
I have a daughter.
Okay, so how do you grapple with that, saying what you say versus living what you live?
Well, I have an obligation to objective truth.
And I, of course, picked that up from Dr. Godsod.
Thank you.
But it is incumbent upon me to tell things like it is.
And sometimes that can come off as sounding like it's angry or it's cynical or it's pessimistic.
Some may call it rational.
Some would call it rational.
Really, that's a sort of a conflict I have written about quite a bit about the war between rationality and reason versus emotionalism right now.
My wife is on board, let's just say, with about 98% of what I've ever written.
And it just sort of depends on mood for the last time.
So 2% question.
Exactly.
What's the 2%?
Exactly.
And that's the first thing anybody says.
Well, I think it's more about what is most expedient when it comes to women's mating strategy versus men's mating strategy.
Which one should be the predominant one that decides how we're going to live in a post-21st century world right now?
Which mating strategy defines our social policy?
Which mating strategy, whether it's men or it's women.
We used to call it patriarchy, right?
Now, patriarchy, by the way, died right around 1965.
It died the year after hormonal birth control was introduced.
Very, very slowly, but it died right at that point.
And when I talk about when I get into like emotionalism versus rationalism, I get this question all the time.
It's like, well, what does your wife disagree with you about?
Like, that's the one little, like, yeah, but there's 98% that she does agree with.
So usually it's just, it's more or less it's logistics, not necessarily like a particular point in the book per se.
But do you say things to your wife like, you better stay hot for me, baby?
You're getting a little bit older.
Not in those words.
But in your innuendos.
My wife looks very, my wife, both of us have a commitment to staying in shape, right?
Okay.
And, you know, it's innuendos.
Yeah, there's a certain game that goes along with that.
It's not like it's something that I'm conscious at this point.
I say this on my own podcast.
It's like, I am the game right now because I've been doing this so long.
I've been studying this for so long that it becomes second nature.
It's internalized.
So am I going to, it's not an ultimatum if that's what you're asking.
It's not, hey, you better do this because, or it's not like she goes through my book and she goes, well, it looks like you're using this point right here on me.
Like it doesn't work.
It's playing the game.
Play with her and play with her.
So you're the market of dating and alpha male, you know, there's a bunch of them right now, right, on YouTube that are doing this.
And there's some younger guys that are doing it.
There's some married guys that are doing it.
There's some girls that are doing it.
You know, women are doing it.
A bunch of folks are testing this out because I think there's a need for it.
People want to know how to increase their market value, right?
So now, if somebody listens to this, they're like, shit, what if I've passed that age?
I'm kind of discouraged.
What do I do, right?
I'm not at that prime age or I'm not at this age.
So what is the non-natural?
Because I know when you use the word natural, what can the non-natural do to increase their market value, both men and women?
As far as sexual market value is concerned.
Say you're available, you're single, okay?
And you're in a marketplace right now and you're like, listen, maybe you're not at the best place career-wise.
You're kind of trying to get it together.
Maybe you're trying to make a comeback.
And maybe you're somebody, you're a woman who's 34 years old and you're single and your last relationship didn't work out.
Maybe you're a single mother right now and you left your husband or vice versa, right?
You're by yourself.
What can that person do to increase their market value to be attractive to the opposite person?
Okay.
Very easy for men.
There's three core aspects and really four if you think about it.
There's make muscles, make money, and learn game.
And in terms of game, I mean like social skills that a lot of guys, by the way, are very lacking these days.
And then as the fourth part of that is hold frame.
So once you have built that world with make money, make muscles, learn game, then you have frame as a part of that.
And again, this is a psychological, sociological term.
Like what's the frame right now?
And it doesn't necessarily have to do with just interpersonal relationships.
It can be your boss.
It can be your mom or your dad and your family.
The like frame is like whoever's frame, psychological frame you're entering into or they're into entering into yours.
So when, when we're looking at uh guys sort of coming back from from being like okay, i'm deficient in these areas, most men when they, when they find what works for them, they gross out in one of those areas.
So I, I don't make a lot of money, i'm kind of poor but man, I can go bench four, you know 400 pounds right, i'm in the 300 club right, I can.
Whatever it is I can, I can maximize my looks and everything at the cost of my deficiency in say, money or even in game.
We see a lot of this in the black pill communities right now, where they think it's nothing but looks.
It's, you know to the point where they're.
You're doing jaws your size so they can get a better, you know jawline or doing, you know, cosmetic surgery.
As a result of this really kind of obsessive, um misunderstanding that it's all about, it's only about looks.
Okay, so what?
You would think that these guys would be like, you know uh, gym bros or they would be like personal trainers or something.
But that's one area, that is, if you're deficient in one of those areas, you tend to gross out another.
So what I would suggest is look at which areas you tend to be really strong at and then look at where you you tend to be weak at.
Most guys, if they're weak in money, they they.
They tend to gross out in looks.
If they're, if they're fat and they don't look very good or they're not naturally good looking, they tend to gross out in money and say well, it's all about the money and all I have to do is just pay for everything and girls will want to come to me, and then it's like there's the game aspect of it.
Well, I don't have either of those, but i'm very charming and so therefore I can.
You know, I know people's psychology and you tend to gross out in that area as well.
My suggestion to guys is, if you want to have a, if you really want to build yourself up, look where you're weak in those three core three things, because the fourth is to have frame as a result of all of those three things.
So if you are not in good shape, which?
What is it?
75 of the United States population is like overweight and like 40 is like morbidly obese.
That's usually the best place to start.
Get your fat ass in the gym.
That will help you out with with your uh just not necessarily the just the look side of things, but it'll help you feel better because you're, you know, releasing stress and there's a chemical, biochemical aspect that goes along with that.
If you're deficient in money, people will say well, how do I get on my game with money?
Uh crypto, how do I do?
How do I become an entrepreneur?
How do I?
Um learn a trade?
How do I, like i'm better at these things?
Find out what your core strengths are um primarily, if i'm, when i'm telling guys like they, they ask me this question, uh, first and foremost, I say, what is sedating you?
Is it pornography?
Is it booze?
Is it uh, prescription drugs?
Is it your uh and your addiction to World Of Warcraft?
Whatever it is, whatever that is sort of your escape, video games it's a life that is.
It's better to live in your escape than it is in your shitty real life that's.
I think that's the first and foremost is, find out what's sedating you, because you can't address any of those core three until you decide, until you figure out what's keeping you in bed all day long and you're not.
You don't want.
Do you think this metaverse concept is going to help us find?
We've just talked about this?
Um yeah, I think it's gonna.
I think it's gonna hurt because it's gonna be more like, I think, a more immersive experience.
Right, if you're not happy with your life, just go check into the metaverse.
Good luck out.
Well, remember when World Of Warcraft and those uh, online role-playing Games came out and everybody was neglecting their children because they were too busy trying to level up.
If that's human nature, imagine what it's going to be like when we get into the metaverse.
And we're already talking about women are filing suit against meta for like being sexually assaulted in the metaverse right now.
And you're already seeing like real world problems sort of being transferred over into the metaverse.
Like we're already, it's a natural shift over.
But yeah, I think that that will be an escape.
That will be a sedation to keep you locked in place, to keep you in neutral.
For women, my biggest concern with women, and it's funny you brought up, you know, what if you're a divorced mom of five or whatever, and you want to get back into the game?
Well, first and foremost, you have to remember what it is that men are looking for and at what particular age.
I'm 53 years old.
If I were to find myself single, I'm not going to be looking for a woman who is, say, like 25 years old because I've already gone through that phase of life.
I'm mature enough and I can think critically enough to go, you know what?
It might be fun to have a fling with that person, but you're not going to build a life with that person going.
Yeah, a lot of people in Palm Beach would disagree with you.
Yeah, well, yeah, I know.
Yeah, that's how you get sugary cycles.
18 people in Palm Beach that got offended.
It's going to be all right.
Go ahead and say that.
So as far as women are concerned, I think women need to look, see the force for the trees right now.
I don't think a lot of women look ahead long term.
I work with these guys, Fresh and Fit, which are in Miami here.
And you're probably familiar with them.
They have one of the number one podcasts and certainly in Southern Florida, if not, you know, dating podcasts over the world.
They bring in women regularly and they'll say, well, they're all ratchet hoes from the clubs or whatever like that.
No disagreement here, but so you can, but when you listen to these girls, they all have the same stories.
I'm looking for a guy who is, you know, the guy who's going to take me on yacht parties.
I'm looking for this.
I'm looking for a guy who's got money.
I'm looking for it seems like they're looking at sort of towards the future.
But what they're not understanding is that at their point of life, say like, as I said, 18 to 28 years old, they don't realize that their sexual selectivity, like the party's going to be over at some point because they're going to be replaced by the next cycle of 18 to 28 year olds that come in.
So, you know, the joke is this: they called the store forever 21, not forever 41.
Because you're looking, women are always looking back at that peak, those peak years, because that's when they had their, they're the top of their agency.
They're at the top of their power, the power curve that I was saying before.
And they constantly look back to that.
And as women go forward, I think there's almost a blue pill for women as well, which is we sell women on this idea of what I call fempowerment.
And we've been doing this really since 1970, since the sexual revolution.
We want to put women into the workplace.
We want to have special dispensation for them in colleges.
We want to get them into STEM fields.
We want to give them access to Pell Grants and all kinds of ways to sort of build them up, put them into the workforce, put them into politics, put them into the economy as much as possible.
And the problem is that what happens is women end up becoming the men they want to marry.
They end up becoming the quote-unquote alpha female or the boss babe or whatever it is now.
And they can't understand why they can't find a guy who is their quote-unquote equal who doesn't want to have anything to do with them.
Because anybody who is better than they are status-wise is not looking for a quote-unquote alpha female.
They're looking for the girl who's 23 years old, who's feminine and wants to go forward and have kids and has, you know, say, well, she's submissive, whatever.
I counsel women today who tell me I can't find a guy.
I can't find a guy who is my equal, but he's got to, you know, they're not going to college.
Men are enrolling at like 40% versus 60% for women right now.
You've probably seen those stats.
And so there's this socioeconomic disparity between men and women right now that's causing this divide, but it's also this expectation.
And we expect women to sort of dumb themselves down so that they can get with a guy who, you know, up to that point, they've been raised on these ideals that they should never settle, that they should never settle for anything less than the best.
And, you know, statistically speaking, the best is making 58% more than that woman does to forestall divorce.
When a woman gets a rise in pay or she gets a promotion at work, that is what precipitates divorce in couples where they were making the same or she was making less and now she's making more.
Those are simple biological evolutionary realities.
You know, here's what I would want to know because he's right.
Not what he just said is right.
He's right with the data set.
Everything's out there with data, right?
I would love to.
Tyler, see if you can search this while we're talking.
They would leave the camera on us.
I'm seeing if Tyler can find this.
I would want to know.
I probably have.
Well, if you have the data, tell us.
We'd pull it up to show it.
I would want to know what is the average rate of a woman that divorces a man, her income to her, versus man to a woman.
I don't know if that makes sense or not.
So woman files a divorce to the man.
Man files a divorce to the woman.
What's the income?
Okay, I'd be just curious to know.
It would be income differential.
Yeah, it would be income difference.
I have a friend of mine that he's been married to his wife, Rolo, for 15 years.
Okay.
She's a lawyer.
She makes a couple hundred grand a year.
He's a stay-home dad.
And she's crazy about him.
She would never leave him.
And he has no desire to go be a career guy.
He drops off the kids in the morning, makes them breakfast, packs their lunch.
And he's not a softie.
Like, if you looked at him, you wouldn't be like, oh, this guy's a little pansy.
He's not.
And then they're happily married.
He's not courier-driven.
He wants to be the soccer dad is who he is.
He's exactly what a soccer mom is, except he's a soccer dad.
She's not a cook.
He is.
And they're happily married.
And that's working out for them, right?
But I also have friends who will call me and they'll say, I say, what's going on?
I say, you sound like you're upset.
What's pissing you off?
Something's bothering you.
Well, yeah, listen, man.
I mean, I don't know.
I'm like, funny.
So let's just say we're having a conversation.
They'll open up and they'll say, you know, would it bother you if your wife made more money than you?
He asked me this question, open-ended question.
You know, we're like three, four guys.
We're talking, shooting the shit.
Would it bother you if your wife made more money than I said, why do you ask?
He said, that's what happened with me and my wife just got a raise right now, and we got some fights at the house.
I said, why does that bother you?
Well, I feel like I have to be the one making more money.
So psychologically, he couldn't accept it.
So does that concept vary based on men and women?
Because sometimes I see women who are stronger personalities marry a guy who is not necessarily an alpha.
He's a little bit more of a chill.
It's okay.
Nothing pisses him off.
And that works out because I think the one thing about these philosophies is, from my experience, I don't think there's anything that's an absolute truth, right?
I think there's generalities and there's majority.
And then you got the exception to the rule.
What would you say to that?
Okay.
Well, first and foremost, the idea that men and women are equal is a misnomer because I think what we do is when we talk, people throw me under the bus for this one, but I don't believe in equality.
And I don't mean that in the terms of like, oh, we shouldn't all like strive to be equal.
I just think that our understanding of what is equal is sort of out, it's subjective and it's obscure and it's relative to whatever the challenges are that men and women face in life.
So if I wanted to get pregnant, I'm a man.
I can't do that because I'm a man.
So that seems very unfair and unequal between the two of us.
It just depends.
Yeah, well, yeah, apparently so.
Apple thinks you can.
Can you pull up the new emoji by Apple?
Apple thinks you can.
I don't know how.
Exactly.
I haven't figured it out yet.
It's a painful experience.
But biologically speaking, reality, objectively speaking, there are always going to be differences between men and women.
And how we define what's equality and what's justice and what's fair and what's not fair is really just dependent on what the challenge is.
So if I'm flying out here on the plane and some lady says, can you please put my bag in the overhead?
Because you're taller than I am and you're stronger than I am and you can put it up in the overhead.
Well, that seems very, no, go, we're all equal.
Go ahead.
You do it, right?
I'm not going to defend you.
I don't, you know, we're all equal today, right?
No, I'm going to go, of course, pick it up and put it in there for her.
But that's what I'm talking about.
What's the challenge?
And the challenge in this case is just simply taking your luggage and putting it in the overhead bin, right?
So when we talk about equality, we need to say, what's the challenge?
Under what parameters?
What's the context that we're talking about here?
So when you're talking about your friends who are, you know, the man is sort of like the Mr. Mom, right?
He's the stay-at-home dad.
He wants to be the soccer dad or whatever else.
Odds are that what does she do for a living?
A lawyer.
A lawyer.
Okay.
And what did he do before he became this?
Or how do they meet him?
I don't think he's ever had a full-time.
Okay.
Is he a good-looking dude?
There's probably something that offsets.
There's probably something that offsets.
What do you mean he was very handsome?
Right now, he's got a massive belly and just he's got the dad bot and he's just some women find dad bots hobby.
Yeah, that's what I'm saying to you.
But here's the thing, though.
What are you going to change about that's working?
They're good with it and they've been together 15 years.
Are they doing something wrong?
So, you know, that's the exception.
That's what I'm saying.
That is the exception to the rule.
I agree with that.
So all I'm trying to say is the one part that Adam I will see is like, you know, in the company, we have a lot of couples in the sales company.
So I'll see sometimes the wife is a bigger alpha than the husband is, and he's okay with that.
Like, he doesn't have the insecurity of saying, I want to be the alpha.
The fact that he doesn't have that insecurity makes him an alpha.
I don't know if that makes sense.
The fact that he's not trying to impose is like, dude, I'm so happy.
And they're killing it.
Okay.
And then you got some guys that are the alpha and the wife is supporting him, some that run together.
But that's very much an exception to the rule because especially in blue-collar couples, I mean, you're talking about somebody who makes a lot of money in a completely different socioeconomic class.
You're looking at a larger whole.
Women file for divorce 70% of the time.
And that's the lowest estimate I have.
Actually, I have higher estimates as well.
And three out of four times the woman is a lot of people.
So what precipitates that is usually that woman has gone, their blue-collar workers, the woman has gone up in status as a result of a promotion or whatever.
And now the guy is making less money.
Or in the case of your friend here, he was never making that much money in the first place.
Now, your lawyer friend goes to the practice and she's having to defer to men who are her authorities, who are her superiors, guys who are very powerful, high-status guys that she has to interact with every day.
Is she going to come home from that situation and go back to her soccer dad husband and say, yeah, I'm going to submit to my husband.
I'm going to, you know, are we going to suddenly come back into that traditional, conventional gender role after working 40 hours a week with guys who are much higher status than the guy that she has to come home to every day who's changing diapers and cooking mac and cheese.
So that is the power dynamic that goes along in there because women are looking for a man that they can look up to.
Women cannot look up to a man who is her equal.
She's looking for a guy who makes more money than she does.
She's looking for a guy who is more on top of his game as a quote-unquote dominant alpha male.
She's looking for the guy who is in status-wise above herself.
If there is some sort of anomaly that's going on there where she's like, oh, I'm good with it because he's a good-looking guy, I would have to say, well, what's her situation as well?
So it's not just about like, okay, was he a good-looking dude, as you said, he was.
What is her situation?
Again, money, muscles, game, and frame.
So where does he fit in on those core four right there?
You'd probably say she's more attractive than him.
You would say so?
You would say so.
Okay.
So in that case.
And he's not a porn star.
So he's not packing.
I know what you mean.
You know what I'm saying?
No, no, yeah.
Well, I mean, you have to take that into consideration.
You have to say, okay, well, she wants to get with this guy.
I mean, I know dozens and dozens of women who are actually at least two of them are my clients right now who complain that they can't find the guy who is that higher status guy.
And so they have to sort of dumb themselves down.
I'm not saying you should.
I'm saying they feel like they have to dumb themselves down just so they can get with a guy because more men are simply not average women don't want to get with average men.
They want the guy who they can look up to and admire.
And from a, you know, an average American perspective, like blue-collar workers, when that woman is elevated to a different position, that's what precipitates divorce.
So you're familiar with Gloria Alright.
You know who Gloria Alright is.
So, you know, sometimes, you know, we are sold a philosophy by somebody who has had dramatic life experiences that we haven't had, but they impose their philosophies onto you, and you kind of sit there and say, I'm going to buy that, but you shouldn't buy that because it may not work for your life.
But because the other person is such a better salesperson, it's so much emotion into it, you buy into it, right?
You got to be very careful which philosophies of people you buy.
So I remember when I interviewed her, Gloria Alright, we're in her office.
I walk in, and you know, she's a perfect, like she's the for people that don't know Gloria Alright is, how do you define who she is?
She's a Michael Jordan of sexual harassment lawsuits, right?
Can we say that?
Yeah, attractive older woman, accomplished.
By the way, I had the most incredible time sitting down with her when the interview was done because things got heated.
When the interview was done, I said, Can I hug you?
She says, You know what, Patrick?
All you have to do is ask.
That's the key.
I'm like, okay.
So she gave me the biggest hug.
We laughed it out.
But I pushed her.
She pushed me.
I said, Look, Gloria, you talk about feminism and women's rights and all this stuff.
How many people you got working here?
A lot.
Why is it that the front desk clerk was a woman, but all your partners' pictures on the wall, they're all men?
Well, are you?
How about you, Patrick?
Are you not a bigot?
It was like such an interesting dynamic.
But then I said, I want to find out about this later.
Lady, when I looked at her documentary, looked at studies on her.
When she was in Cancun, do you know the story about what happened to her in Cancun, in Mexico?
So when she was young in her early mid-20s, very attractive girl, she goes to a doctor, she meets a doctor, doctor Taylor says, let's go back to my practice.
I want to show you my office.
In the office, he rapes her, okay?
And she keeps it to herself for a while, but she creates this level of anger towards men, right?
So later on, she gets married to this man, then they get a divorce.
I think after she gets a divorce, you know, he ends up committing suicide.
The guy kills himself, her first husband.
And a second husband, she gets married.
They get a divorce.
She keeps the last name, but sues the hell out of him.
And you saw what happened to her daughter.
Her daughter is now kind of similar, doing what she's doing.
I don't know if you're following the foot.
She's following her footsteps.
Similar personality, strong personality.
And she's out there saying, independent woman, independent woman, independent woman, independent woman.
And women are like, she's right.
She's right.
She's right.
And it may work for some, but some actually do want to have a family, do want to have, you know, do want to have a husband, do want to stay, you know, build something together with them.
How do you differentiate between, you know, somebody who is selling a bag of goods that maybe worked for her because she had a painful experience?
How do you process that?
How do you get somebody who's listening to this saying, well, she's right, versus saying, I don't know if that philosophy is going to work for me longer.
It's very difficult to make a rational argument with people who are like seated and steeped in emotionalism.
And anger is definitely an emotion and resentment and regret, revulsion.
There's all kinds of different emotions that go along with that.
I can be the most rational guy in the world and say, here's the statistics, here's the dynamics, here's just the dots that I'm connecting.
I'm not going to change that person's mind if she's having an emotional argument and I'm having a rational argument because we're talking past each other.
Most people, when they have a conflict of interests or they have like, oh, you believe in a philosophy?
And I'm like, no, I don't believe in a philosophy.
I believe in empirical data.
Here it is.
The only way they can win that rational argument is by converting it into an emotional argument.
And that's, in a nutshell, kind of what happens when you're trying to relate red pill awareness, when you're trying to relate the kind of material that I do to people who are very ego-invested into like their personalities are dependent on that belief set.
So unless they get to a point of crisis, unless they get to a point of really kind of desperation, or they have, you know, through some miracle, they have some sort of insight about things, you're really probably not going to change their minds about it.
The best you can do is to present, you know, pick your battles, ask, lead the witness, right?
Ask pertinent questions at the time when those topics arise.
But as far as like when we're talking about like this cultural narrative of the power in strong, independent woman right now, it's practically a brand.
We've been talking about the strong, independent woman since 1970, since Gloria Steinem.
Okay.
And why is that a broken philosophy?
Well, it's a broken philosophy for several reasons.
Some people swear by it.
Independent of what?
What are women independent of?
Men.
They're independent of men's provisioning.
So when we go back, remember I told you how everything goes back to the micro, the micro level is this.
For women, women's mating strategy is hypergamy.
Okay.
And I mean that on two fronts.
It's dual.
It's not just one.
Like a lot of people mistake hypergamy as, oh, well, women marry up.
It's not just about that.
Women also are looking for short-term sexual genetic benefits.
They want the hot guy in the foam cannon party and cancun on spring break.
You know, they want the hot fireman that arouses them and gets their blood boiling.
And then they want the guy who's also, like I said, attraction, who is the guy who's a good long-term security prospect.
So it's CADS versus dads.
That's kind of like the dynamic that women have to choose.
They have to find the best fit between those two things.
In today's society, really since 1970, we have developed a social order that has sold women you don't need to worry about long-term security.
We've got no-fault divorce.
We've got child support laws.
We've got the Duluth model of feminism.
We've got more women in the workplace.
Just go on down the line of all the benefits that women have accrued since the time of the sexual revolution.
All of those point to one thing, which is long-term security for women.
So when we're talking about like abortion on demand, that's a fail-safe for bad reproductive choices.
That is the function of abortion, is to say, you know what?
Well, he's not a good prospect for the future, but this guy is.
And so therefore we have that option, just having that option, and that is exactly why women will fight tooth and nail to keep abortion legal.
That's number one.
Do you think that's the reason?
Absolutely.
That is the function of it.
So women will say, well, it's because of bad decision.
Really, what else is it?
I mean, is it bad philosophy?
Is it bad religion?
Is it bad whatever?
So let's process it.
What is the purpose?
What is the latency?
So what you're saying is, what you're saying is, if a girl hooks up with an NFL player, she'll keep the baby.
But if she hooks up with a neighbor because one night she was alone and he came, he was a school teacher, regular guy, she may abort that baby, but keep the NFL.
And that's what you're saying.
And that's exactly why you have no seat at the table when we start talking about abortion laws.
You don't have a uterus and therefore you don't have a say.
You know what NFL trained on that?
By the way, just a side note, NFL trained that every time you have sex with a condom, flushed the flush the combat.
It was NBA, NBA that did that.
I mean, now it's everybody.
Have you seen what happened recently in the news in the table with Drake in the hot sauce in the condom situation?
You know where he got that from was Tom Likas from back in the 90s.
I did a segment on that.
Everyone's like, Tom Likas, Tom Lika, who the hell is that?
Tom Likas, yes.
My question is, like, Drake, why are you putting cholula sauce in a freaking condom?
Just flush it down the toilet.
I don't know if it's an on fire or medical.
I believe it was 2001, the NBA released a press release to all their players who are on road trips because they had such a high incidence of women that they were sleeping with while they were on road games.
Essentially, they would use a condom and the women would, let's say, inseminate themselves with the leftovers in the condom so that they could have a kid with an NBA player.
That is a goal of many.
It was so common that they had to make a press release for that.
And of course, Tom Likas being the extreme guy.
Well, you should put Tabasco sauce in there.
So when she does that, but continue.
You were saying, continue.
You were going to a point there.
What's feminism movement and why it's not an official strategy?
And that's just one factor that goes along.
And so what we have done is we've established a social order where men are unnecessary.
And women today will say this.
We don't need men.
We're strong.
I don't need no man.
I don't need no man, but I want a man.
Okay.
What man do you want to get with?
What man is that?
It's usually the guy who's the quote-unquote stereotypical alpha chad guy, hot guy in the foam cannon party.
She wants the alpha seed side of hypergamy, not the beta need side, because at least there's this idea that that side of security, that side of her mating strategy is going to be settled.
And when they get to the point where they're 33, 34, 35 years old, and they're asking me, Rola, where are all the good guys?
How come I can't find a guy who makes more money than me or is ready to go forward?
They're all so irresponsible.
They're all threatened by powerful, strong, powerful women.
And the only answer I have for them is you have created yourself into the man that you wanted to marry.
And so when women hit me up and they ask me about this and they say, okay, well, what can I do?
What can I do to be to find a long-term guy?
And they're 34, 35 years old, and they get very, very frustrated.
They're like, I guess I'm going to die alone.
I guess they've resigned themselves to being a spinster.
An old spinster, exactly.
And so what I say is, well, what are the men that you're looking for?
What are they looking for in a woman?
Well, they're looking for femininity.
They're looking for a woman who's hot.
They're looking for sexual availability.
They're looking for a woman who can nurture, who might be a good mother in the future.
I mean, there's all of these sort of conventional feminine qualities that they don't embody anymore.
And so when they say, well, what do I got to do?
I got to play dumb.
I got to play the Ditzy Blonde.
I've been told my whole life that I needed to be in charge and powerful and everything else.
And as Patrick was saying just a minute ago, is women want to be, or they believe that they need to be in those positions of power because they can't depend on a man.
Men are irresponsible.
Men are untrustworthy.
Men, like Gloria Allred, for example, I don't need no man, or they have a very misandrous attitude towards guys as a result of life experience or whatever.
But it doesn't even have to be something as dramatic as that.
It can be simply like watching Disney Pixar movies that do nothing but say you can do anything.
You could be an astronaut and have babies at the same time.
And you can be in the military and fight wars and you can go and be a computer, whatever it is.
The sky's the limit, girl.
And you have three, four generations of women who are raised on that.
They believe that they have to be the one who provides that security for themselves.
So as a result, you have careerist women who are getting more degrees than men.
We constantly, we point at men when we talk about this, but let's look at the stats here.
There are more women who are enrolled in college.
There are more women in doctorate programs.
There are more women who get master's degrees.
I mean, just educationally speaking, we can parse that out.
Women are making more money than men are these days, or increasingly more, anyways.
And then women spend more money that is part of the family unit.
Right now, 90% of American homes, the woman is the one who makes all of the big economic decisions for those homes.
So it's not necessarily earning capacity or this wage gap kind of thing.
It's who is making the spending?
Who holds the purse strings?
And we can see that on the family level.
And you can also see that on the societal level as well.
So if you go look at the who's in charge of the IMF right now, who's in charge of the Fed?
Who's in charge of the EMF right now?
Well, yeah, you look at, I think it was on Zero Hedge, had a really great story about this.
It's like the world's economies are now controlled by women, or those are the heads, the figureheads of those organizations.
Now, some may say, a feminist may say to you, Rolo, you're just insecure.
You're afraid that we as women are starting to take your jobs away and we're making a market more competitive.
Why are you so insecure and afraid of us?
Okay, what I would say is that's an emotional argument, and I'm making a rational argument.
It's the same thing.
It's a conversation killer.
Who hurt you?
That kills the conversation right there.
If I go and I make all of these very cogent, very rational, valid arguments, or I show you the statistics and say, these are just the steps, these are the stats, these are the dots that I'm connecting.
And if your response is, who hurt you?
or you must be very bitter.
What was her name?
Or mommy didn't love you?
That's an emotional response.
So it's the same thing.
It's like, well, you're just an insecure man because you're bringing this up.
No, I am giving you objective reality and you have no counter argument for it.
These women that you're saying you're speaking to that approach you and have these conversations that are doing well in life successful, they're literally saying, what do I have to do?
Dumb it down.
You've used that play stupid.
You've used that terminology a few times.
What does that actually look like?
They're not going to just start being a dick.
What does that actually look like dumbing up?
We're going to find out is what we're going to do.
Right now, if you look at marriage rates, they're at the lowest they have ever been since in the United States anyways, than when they started recording this.
It's like, I believe it's up to 6.1% per thousand right now.
I believe it's 6.1.
But it's at the lowest rate.
What do you mean, 6.1%?
What was 6.1 per 1,000, I believe, of the population?
What does that mean?
Statistically speaking, the marriage rate in the United States is lower than 100%.
Yeah, but what's 6.1 per 1,000?
I got it off of the marriage.
Women's marriage per 1,000 unmarried women.
So can you pull this up?
Because I'm actually really curious on what that means.
I do know fewer people are getting married.
That's the lowest rate.
Absolutely.
I mean, I got one chart here that says marriage more than a century of change.
If you go back to the 50s, 90.2% of folks were getting married.
Today it's 31.1%.
Yes.
The U.S. marriage rate, the number of women's marriages per 1,000 unmarried women, 15 years and older, is the lowest it's been in over a century at 31.1.
That is roughly 31 marriages per 1,000 unmarried women.
The marriage rate was the highest in 1920 at 92.3%.
Since 1970, the marriage rate has declined almost 60%.
Why is that happening?
I would say it's because we have a different understanding of how men and women should interact with each other.
We have taken away anything that men might provide to women because they're strong and independent women, right?
That side of hypergamy, where it's the three P's: parental investment, protection, and provisioning.
Women can do that themselves.
And when we have a social order that makes men like Homer Simpson, or we turn them into incompetent men, or we say we can just simply look at the stats, like 40% of guys are going to college right now.
There's this new, I forget what the guy's named John Berger, I think was, he coined this phrase called the golden penis syndrome, right?
It's like these guys who are on top of their game.
They're the alpha, the quote-unquote alpha males that all women want to get with.
Well, they don't need a man to provide security for themselves anymore, and they don't trust a man to provide that security in the first place because their whole concept of masculinity is ridiculous or it's abusive.
Those are really the two or incompetent.
Those are the three choices that women have.
You have two kids?
I have one.
One daughter.
One daughter, 23.
Okay, boom.
This is perfect.
So your advice to women.
Yeah, exactly.
I mean, no, no, this is just over.
I've answered this before.
You have a 23-year-old daughter.
She's at the quote-unquote prime of her life right now.
People, I'm sure, you know, if you're her dad and a hot mom, I'm sure she's looking all right.
What are you telling her?
Are you saying, hey, listen, babe, you've got a few years to capitalize on this.
I want you to go to school.
I want you to be successful, but not too successful.
And here's what I want you to do.
What are you telling your daughter?
Well, my daughter's already a girly girl to begin with.
Okay.
She's a pageant girl.
By the way, she knew, what's the black girl who just committed suicide?
The pageant winner girl who I forget, Chris, I forget her name, Chelsea Christ, I think is what her name is.
Sorry.
Which is very tragic.
It's tragic.
This just happened.
Yeah, just wow.
Yeah.
And so, but she's very feminine.
She's naturally feminine.
She's got a good head on her shoulders.
She's doing postgraduate work.
I won't tell you what college is on publicly, but she's just finishing up her post-grad.
She has a boyfriend who is very much alpha guy, a hockey player.
And so older.
Yes, yes.
Yes.
And she naturally, I think, gravitates towards guys who are, I would say, follow a certain template or a certain model.
And yes, to be honest with you, I've said the same thing.
I said, you know, you are at the prime of your life.
You're at the peak where your selection, your peak agency is that.
Well, see, that's the problem.
This is my daughter.
This is Rolo Tomasi's daughter.
Okay.
So this is kind of like I'm biased here.
She's going to be biased because she's getting this from me.
But of course, like the problem that most women have with what I have to say when they have a problem with it is they tend to conflate sexual market value with their personal worth.
And that's, I think, remember you were asking me what advice would you give to women?
I would say, look, there's a difference between your sexual market value and your personal value.
So when women say, well, look, I've got a career.
I have my own business.
I have all of this stuff.
I did everything that I was told to do by the books.
I'm a powerful alpha female and I still can't find a man, but this is where I'm at.
How dare you tell me that I'm not hot or I'm not attractive?
And the problem that I have is that when you conflate sexual market value with your personal worth, your personal worth becomes what you think should be attractive or what men should find attractive in you.
Men are not necessarily looking for a woman who is a high-powered CEO or an attorney or whatever.
They're looking for a girl who's like good-looking, feminine, and sexually available, and they want to get with that.
And anything beyond that point, once you've established that relationship, that's all gravy after that point.
But they're not looking for a guy.
Men are generally heterosexual men are not looking for another guy to marry.
They're looking for a woman to marry because that's the complementary nature between men and women.
You're not even talking about homosexuality.
You're talking about another woman.
Oh, we can talk about homosexuality.
No, no, but in this context, you're talking about they don't want to marry a woman who is trying to be a man.
Like, that's what you're saying.
Exactly.
We're looking for the yin and the yang, right?
I mean, I've said this before.
Like, people will throw rocks at me.
So let me be clear right now.
From my perspective, men and women are innate, natural, evolved complements to one another.
My strengths as a man complement my wife's weaknesses as a woman and vice versa.
We are better together than we are apart.
And the problem is, as you were saying before, is that we have this separation.
Why aren't people getting married?
Why aren't we forming these monogamous families?
You talked to Jordan Peterson a little while ago was a socially enforced monogamy.
Why is that a thing of the past all of a sudden?
It's because men or women literally have no use for men, except for a few top-tier guys that whether by force or by choice, are being forced or choice to choose that one guy and share that one guy.
So when we talk about high-powered guys and having, why would that guy who has at the peak of his sexual selectivity, maybe he's 37 years old, 36 or 7 years old, he's on top of his game.
He's hitting his stride.
He's made his first millions.
He's got his own business.
He's got, he's the success story of manhood.
Why is he going to want to get with a woman who is like his equal, or that he would perceive as his equal, and not get with a lot of hot girls like Dan Bilzerian or something like that, or get with a lot of women at one time, you know have that sexual selectivity and then choose from among them who he wants to have children with and who he wants to have.
You quoted Jordan Peterson, who was just here Friday, sitting in your seat right there.
And basically, I've seen him say, saying women want to date horizontally or vertically, meaningly like your same status or above, where men is just like, I'll take it from a 10-year-old.
I'll take a three to a 10.
I don't give a shit.
Women have attraction floors.
Men do not have attraction floors.
And what I mean.
Break that down.
Yeah, exactly.
Well, let's just, I mean, let's put it in nuts and bolts here is if you've got a guy who is like a six, he'll date a woman who he would love to get with a woman who's a nine, but no one's ugly after 2 a.m.
Right.
So we have a much broader, much broader scope when it comes to, you know, the women that we're willing to get with either as mating opportunities or as like, say, a relationship.
Like men today are simply not even allowed to have standards.
So when we talk about like, well, what do you look for in a woman?
Most guys, it's like, well, you know, she, she was there and it just seemed like it was the right thing to do.
For women, if a woman is a six, she's looking for a guy who's a six or above.
And if that guy is a six, she's looking for that guy.
The guy who's at the seven might be somebody that she wants to get with.
It's not necessarily a sort of mating, but it is looking for the bigger and the better deal.
And does that mean now, because people are going to give me this, does that mean that, you know, well, if I get with a woman, she's always going to be looking for the next big, bigger, better thing?
No, because hypergamy is not a straitjacket.
And what I mean by that is as women mature, their ability to discern what's my sexual market village, sexual market value versus his, if that woman is, say, a seven and he's a six at 28 years old when they get married, and now they get to be in their 30s, their mid-30s, and suddenly he's made partner in the law firm.
He's maximized his potential.
He goes up in sexual market value while she goes down a notch.
That's what I'm talking about.
Maybe that's what solidifies that relationship and it makes it a healthy relationship.
It's not necessarily like, well, oh, I'm doomed because women, why would I bother getting with a woman who's just going to go look for the next best thing?
It's not just about that.
There's a lot of variables that go along.
You know, we were doing a show that we're testing.
And, you know, yesterday we're talking to, you were not in the room.
So Zach's on this blind date with the scroll.
Okay.
And we're testing this show.
And this therapist from behind in the back, what a walkie-talkie is talking to each person that they're dating, right?
So meaning the girl's got a headset that she's speaking into.
Okay.
And you, the guy on the blind dates, got a headset that she's speaking to.
Same person, two walkie-talkies.
One is yours, one is hers, right?
And she says to him, ask her this question.
Are you okay with open relationships?
If we date, are you okay with open relationships?
And she says, yeah, I would be open to open relationships.
And then she said to follow up with the question of, why would you be open to open relationships, right?
Obviously, there's a place that she's going to.
You know, there's a lot of talks about open relationships right now.
Poly.
Yeah, what is this story with open relationships?
I think that that is sort of the adaptation that's going on right now because a lot of, like, as you were just looking at the traditional marriage, like where it's one man, one woman, they get together, they have two kids and a golden retriever in the front yard, right?
That is a dying model.
That is an old order model.
It's a 20th century model.
Today, in the 21st century in the social media era, women are exposed to what is it, the paradox of choice, right?
All you have to do is go on your cell phone and go on Tinder, and there's far more guys on Tinder than there are women on Tinder.
So this sort of gives this idea that women have a higher threshold when it comes to attention or when from other guys.
So there is the idea, anyways, this is in theory anyhow, is that poly is an adaptation for the situation that's going on between like what used to be just sort of the nuclear family right now.
So when a woman, for instance, when a woman, when we're talking about poly, poly works differently for both guys, for men and for women.
So when we think of poly, we think of one guy who's like, yeah, man, I got three girls here.
You know, this is great.
You know, they, but guys want to have that variety, you know, they want to have like the three ways or whatever it is.
The common fantasy.
So we think of poly in those terms.
But when we look at it in a modern sense, poly really kind of comes down to who's the most attractive and who can leverage it the most.
In today's society, it's women that can leverage it the most because they're the ones that get the most attention online in a social media perspective.
Again, going back to those stats, I had them here just a second ago, but it was if you look at how couples met over the, from like 1950 all the way to 2020, and you look at like friends and family, school, church, whatever else it is, and you look at just like how low those numbers are right now, and there's one huge spike right now.
And maybe he'll pick it up.
That huge spike right there, that's online dating.
And that is like not, and that's only in like the last like 15 to 10, 15 years right there.
That is what I'm, you want to know why poly is so popular?
That's why poly is so let's look at that.
Let's look at that.
Because of online dating, you're saying well, because of choice, because even just the presumption of choice is even higher because that's 2017.
Yeah, so through friends, 33% to 20%.
Bar restaurant went from 19% to 27%.
So that went higher.
I'm sure it's lower for COVID because ain't nobody going to bars during COVID.
At work, it went from 19 to 11%.
Does that mean people are no longer working?
School, college, from 19 to 9%.
Through family, 15 to 70%.
Wow, so they're no longer going to Thanksgiving.
You know, so going back to what we're talking about with this whole thing about availability, right?
We looked at a stat a couple months ago, if you remember the stat, where the percentage of folks who were getting married online versus through family, it was seven times higher.
Do you remember that stat?
Do you remember that stat where we talked about it?
There's an article we covered.
People that meet online are more likely to get divorced, and people who meet through friends or family are the most likely to stay married.
Yeah.
So people who meet online are more likely to get a divorce than people who meet through friends and family.
And I think friends and family was the highest, if I'm not mistaken, right?
Friends and family, and it was work.
Why do you think that is?
Why do you think a divorce is higher for online than friends and family?
Okay.
Well, again, you're spoiled for choice.
That's first and foremost.
You have to look at the people, well, that's the one.
That's actually what I was looking at right there.
If you look at that spike, that really dramatic spike right there, that's, and when did that start?
Right around 2000, can't see it from here.
1999.
Yeah, 1999 all the way up to where we're at right now.
AOL chat is what I'm saying.
I see a lot of it.
I see a lot of people.
Yeah, but is that groundbreaking?
That's like saying social media is where people are doing with their time.
But what he is saying is what he's saying is availability.
Access.
Our understanding, our expectations of marriage, our expectations of forming a relationship are based on pre-2000 standards.
I'm Gen X, you're Gen X, I believe.
But even if you're millennial right now, you still remember an age in the 90s.
If you watched an episode of Friends, that's the old order way we used to do.
We used to do relationships.
We still have this expectation, this ideal of this 20th century model for relationships in an age where we look at a dramatic spike like that in how people meet online.
And again, you have to also, you can't just take that one data point and just like say, this is it.
There's all other interrelated data points that go along with that.
You're also looking at men who are falling out of the lost boys generation, the guys who are not getting laid right now because I'm looking at the GSS study right now.
Men are far more sexless today than at any other time in history, any other generation in history.
So the whole incel concept.
Well, it is.
It's the incel concept, but it's also statistically a reality.
Yeah, my friend David's dealing with this.
Right, it's like 28%.
I just read this thing is 28% of men below the age of 30 are sexless.
They're still either virgin.
What was that number again?
28% of men below the age of 30, up to 30, are sexless.
What can those guys do?
Is this some of the big triad, make more money, build more muscle game, yeah?
And I mean, if you want a prescription, that's what I would, that's where I would go to.
However, that data point set against this stuff, you're going to ask me, why is poly a big deal?
Why is it now we're not getting married?
Why is well, of course, divorce rates are lower now as well because nobody's getting married.
And so we're looking for alternatives to that right now.
We're looking for alternative ways of forming families.
And I think we're kind of doing a piss-poor job of it right now because we're still thinking that we can get back to this 20th century model for relationships in an age where 28% of men below 30 aren't getting any.
And we're looking at how are they finding each other.
Okay, also look at how's the demographics and what are the numbers of men versus women on those dating apps to begin with.
It's mostly men and like an ocean of men and like a very few select set of women who are getting those responses.
You know what's unique about you is that in some fashion, you're a traditionalist, meaning you've been married for 30 years.
You're married.
25 years.
Ride the cusp.
Yes.
What does that mean exactly?
Ride the fence, man.
I can remember a pre-internet age and a post-internet age.
And so I'm going to, and by the way, once I'm the last of my kind, because once we're gone, nobody's going to have that preconception anymore.
Certainly not to the degree that people are writing about.
I don't know about that.
Well, people want that.
They want that conventional.
They want that conventional monogamy.
I think there's always going to be.
We sometimes think we're more important than we really are, and there's nothing wrong with being that confident.
That's great.
But I think people like you are always going to be there to challenge conventional thinking.
Oh, there's going to be.
It's no question of, listen, Jewish proverb, three things every man should do is what?
Write a book, plant a tree, have a son, right?
I mean, it's a, the whole purpose behind it doesn't mean go have a son today.
It's just saying like the fact that when you do that, messages go to the next one.
I asked this open relationship thing because of the one show that we're doing, but it's also, it's been coming up and, hey, you think it's this, you think it's that.
What about this?
Because sometimes you got single guys that want to get married who don't want to give up the life of being single.
Okay.
You know how you talk about in your 20s, never fully commit to one.
I don't know what word you use, but you use that.
That's the 48 laws of power, by the way.
Yeah, of course.
Robert Greentop, but you talk about that as well, where, you know, keep your options open when you're young.
Till you're 30.
Don't consider monogamy until you're 30.
Yeah, so that's what you say.
That's what you say.
Okay.
You know, so you're kind of like when you're single, you know, you don't have the, what's the RCA?
Those three things that we fear, that we don't want.
We just, I don't want to be responsible for one.
I don't want to be committed to one.
I don't want to be accountable.
But the reality of it is you ain't going to be married for 25 years if you don't follow the RCA rule and commit to that, right?
How does one who is single and has been single for a while and has been very good at being single for a while, how does that person who is now, especially, and this is going to sound like I'm talking about you, but I'm talking a lot of friends right now that we have that are late 30s, early 40s.
They don't need to get married.
They're doing great.
They're making money.
But they're getting to a point where they're sitting there saying, I wouldn't mind having a kid.
I wouldn't mind having a family.
Honestly, I'm so sick of it.
The number that used to matter when you would brag to your friends, you know, the number like, oh, I've been with this many others.
You're not counting.
No one cares anymore.
Like, who cares about what the number is anymore at this point?
It mattered in the 20s.
It doesn't matter in your 40s.
What challenges is that 40-year-old male going to face to go from being fully free for many, many years to all of a sudden decide to commit to one person and build a family?
What challenge is that guy going to face?
Yeah, I have my friend John from Modern Life Dating is probably a pretty good example of this as well.
Once you get to that point, once you get to like 36, 37 years old, and let's just say you've been on your game, you have maximized your potential as, you know, your value as a guy, there will come a point where you have, let's just say, solved the mystery of women.
You've solved the mystery of money.
You've solved the mystery of whatever it is that sort of has been your obsession for as long as it has been.
And now it seems kind of like old news to you.
And what's the next challenge?
What's the next goal?
And I have said this as well is that I think that, again, that men and women are innate compliments.
We're better together than we are apart.
And I think that at some stage, men are going to say, you know what, I would rather have the quality than the quantity.
But those guys don't get to that stage unless they kind of go through the idea that they either had the quantity or that they could have had the quantity.
Most men, like I said, when the average age of marriage for men is the ones that are getting married is like 29 years old, that also coincides right at that epiphany phase that I was just talking to you guys about.
So when that guy's 29 years old and he's not quite reached his peak potential, when he gets to 36, 37 years old and he's already committed to a woman who was like 20 years, you know, 28 years old back in the day, he might be thinking, well, damn, I didn't know I was going to be this hot.
I didn't know I was going to have this much money.
I didn't know I was going to be at this status.
And that's why you get things like the midlife crisis at that point.
And so it's not so much a midlife crisis as it is, oh, damn, I now realize my own potential.
And now I'm having second thoughts.
Or now I'm like, you know, I'm going to go buy a sports car to sort of relive my youth.
That's really sort of where that comes from.
But when those guys are not committed and they get to 230s, that's one scenario.
The other scenario is the one you just said is when they get to be 36, 37 years old, maybe 38 years old, pushing 40.
And they go, you know what?
I'm done with this.
I really kind of want to log out and I want to have something that's a little more permanent.
They'll ask me, they'll say, Rolo, I don't want to get with one of these girls on Fresh and Fit who's like 18, 22 years old because they seem kind of really flighty and not somebody you want to start something with.
But also, I don't want to get with a woman who's sort of like used up and is really kind of full of herself, an alpha female at 33 years old who has sort of built herself into that archetype.
How do I solve my problem?
I tell them, he say, you know, you have to look for certain, you have to be a good judge of character.
You've got to be able to, if you're reading my books, if you're a red pillow wear, if you're a good judge of character, if you maximize your potential, I've always said that the sweet spot is kind of somewhere between, like, say, 25 and 27 years old and looking for a woman who understands like what her sexual market value is versus what her personal value is.
And those women do exist.
And I want to point that out.
It's not like, I think a lot of people think that I think all women are the same.
No.
Or all men are the same.
No, I'm not saying that.
There are commonalities. that are that are characteristic of men and women.
We have our sort of innate differences, of course.
But when you're talking to like women in different cultures, in different religions, in different countries, wherever, those cultures are going to be vastly different than they are here in the United States because maybe they haven't sort of been corrupted with like, you know, feminism or whatever to that point.
So you're looking at women in like Muslim, like Muslim-majority countries.
You're looking at Latin countries.
Those women are going to be of a different kind of understanding of like, well, going forward, this is what I'm going to be about.
So there's a lot of variables that get together.
So at that point, this is what I took from Woods, and I'm curious what your follow-up is going to be there.
I'll turn it over to you right after this.
So to me, based on what you just said, this is what I took away from it.
Culture and tradition is something you ought to value at that age.
You ought to look for that.
Is that kind of what you're saying?
You should at least have a good understanding of how that person, whether male or female, came to their, certainly their belief sets, but also what is it that has acculturated them into the personalities that they have.
So definitely, you know, there's environmental influences, there's natural innate influences, and then there's cultural influences as well.
What do you think about that?
You know, split your age plus seven.
Half plus seven, half plus seven.
Yeah.
Well, let me tell you something about like age appropriateness.
It only works in the female sense.
It doesn't work in the male sense because we live in a gynecentric social order that says, well, you know, was it Kiana Reeves?
When he was dating his, I think she was like 46 and he's like my age, like 53 or 54 years old.
And the woman he was dating at the time looks like his mother.
Looks like she's got gray hair and everything.
And women were just like, yay, he's dating somebody that's age appropriate.
You look at Leonardo DiCaprio, none of his girlfriends have been older than 25 years old.
And as soon as they get to 26, he cycles them out and gets another 25 years.
Like it's an expired can of milk.
Exactly.
And so that's, and you can, there are actually online sites that like track his girlfriends' ages across the.
So who's doing it right?
Is Leo doing it right?
Or is Keanu doing it right?
Is Keanu still with the lady?
I don't know, but that was, yeah, that's the gal right there.
I believe Hugh Jackman is.
Yeah, Hugh Jackman is my age.
He's 53, and his wife is 66 years old.
Jason Mamoa.
Jason Momoa just broke up with Lisa Bonet, who is 54, and I believe he's 41 or 42.
Lisa Monet had it going on for a while.
And she was with Lenny Kravitz.
Macron, the PM of France, isn't he president, prime minister, whatever.
His wife is like 20 years older than him.
We only have a problem with age appropriateness when it is a man that is dating too young.
So what's too young?
Half plus seven?
Is it 10 years?
If you look at the difference between, say, like Lisa Bonet and Jason Mamoa, what's that about?
A 10-year difference?
13 years.
Yeah, well, 13 years.
So if you've got a guy who's 33 and he's dating a 20-year-old girl, technically it's illegal.
You could go ahead and do that.
But we go, oh, my gosh, he's robbing the cradle, right?
But if it's the other way around, oh, she's a cougar.
I don't think about it.
I just think, is it going to work?
You may be like, oh, that's cool.
It's like Debbie Moore and Ashton Kutcher.
That was a success story.
Yes.
Yeah, well, he brought up a really good story because almost like the case example he was giving is essentially me.
So the, you know, ultimately, a lot of the questions that you ask are, who do you want to be?
Yeah.
Right.
So who do you want to be?
Who I want to be now at age 41 is a lot different than who I wanted to be at age 31.
So it really, like, I'll give you a story.
Congratulations, you've mixed herd.
All right.
Well, yeah.
But that comes with finding your purpose, making money, having some heartbreak issues, whatever, you know, good relationships, bad relationships.
It happens through life.
But ultimately, you have to be like, okay, do I want to be single at 51?
Hell no.
Who do I want to be?
Like, thank God I have got a lot of good people on my ear like Pat that shows me, all right, cool.
You can be successful.
You can have money.
You can still have fun.
You can be a family man.
You can do it all.
You can have it all if that's what you want.
So I tell the story on a podcast that I do that I believe that you're going to be on on Thursday.
So I met a girl that I haven't seen in years out.
I saw her.
I saw her out.
Well, I didn't know that I knew her, but I was like, oh, she's really attractive, tall, whatever.
We get to talking.
I'm like, oh, yeah, I remember you with Kali.
I'm like, how old are you?
I'm 40.
You're 40?
You look incredible.
She's like, yeah, we should get together sometime.
You know, here's my number.
Call me.
I never called her.
40.
Thinking, I don't think that's going to work out so much because I'm thinking I want to get married.
I want to have kids.
That's just not going to be in my.
And then you're speaking of polyamorous.
So this past weekend, I'm out.
It's my birthday, South Beach, having a fun time.
I see a girl that I hadn't seen in a little while.
She goes, what's up?
How are you?
You have a girlfriend?
No.
Jokingly, I go, do you have a girlfriend?
Ha ha.
She goes, yeah, actually, I do.
I'm like, oh, okay, this is going to get fun.
She's like, you should come out with us.
Whatever, whatever.
So I'm out with her and her girlfriend, but we're kind of got a thing going on.
And we have a thing.
It's my birthday.
She gives me a kiss, whatever.
I'm like, why is your friend having a bad attitude?
She's like, I don't know.
She just kind of feels like a third wheel.
She's like, I think it would be a lot better and make things less awkward if you kiss her.
I'm like, okay.
So boom, make out with a friend now.
So now I'm making out two girls.
It's kind of insane.
And I'm telling my boys this like the next day.
And they're like, so almost like, you know, Adrian or whatever.
But it's like, bro, are you kidding me?
You got to take the two girls.
Oh, my God.
You had like, like, there's that friend, right?
It's like a Steel Panther.
Exactly, exactly.
And then there's the other friend that's like, you know, almost like the angel and devil.
It's like, listen, bro, like, you know, do you really want to mess with these kind of like ratchet, not just she was ratchet, but these more like scandalous type girls?
Is that really what you're looking for?
So there's part of me that's like, and this is for most men, I would assume.
By the way, the fact that you're being that transparent about it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Most men want to like are thinking.
Here's a difference.
Here's a difference though.
Here's a difference though.
Here's a difference.
Adam is in shape.
He's made money, attractive, charming, charismatic.
You would be qualified as a natural.
So for you, you're 6'1, athlete.
You are extremely likable.
People like you.
You don't have enemies.
You're chill.
You're cool to be around, right?
You have that side.
I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, it's harder for you to want to consider to want to build that, you know, that life.
Because for me, when I was, I got out of one relationship, me and this girl were together.
She's a Libra.
I'm a Libra.
You know, we, when we were friends, tight, great, but she was so dominant, personality, super competitive.
And, you know, honestly, like we were about a week away from World War III.
Yeah, I was going to say there's no way there's going to be negative menu.
So, you know, afterwards, I'm kind of like, I was convinced.
I sat down with Leo's wife, Patty, and I said, Patty, you know what?
Listen, I just come to a conclusion.
I actually enjoy my own company.
I actually enjoy my own company.
So what are you talking about?
I'm telling you, I'm the guy that on Sundays, I will wake up in the morning, I'll go to Santa Monica, I'll do the stairs, I'll go to the gym, I'll go to the beach that I go to.
I'll go to the same seat I sit at that PF Chang's in the corner, the same waiter gives me four Arnold Palmers.
I eat the same exact freaking thing.
I call the same person that I go spend some time with, then I go to this place, and then I come and I go to the office, and I work all night, and I start Monday morning.
I said, I'm totally fine.
I said, I'm going to have six and a half days to work against my competitors.
Everybody else is going to work five days a week.
Why would I want to get married, right?
So I'm going through this process.
And I have options.
It's not like I'm.
Logistics and pragmatism.
Exactly.
Exactly.
And it's like, you know what?
If you have a wife, if you have kids, do you really want to have that and all this other stuff?
Now, there's a different side of me as well that, you know, God's played a very important role in my life.
And I'm talking incredible or I would not be where I'm at right now without the man upstairs.
Believe me.
So the fight I had on both sides is like, I want to, you know, I want to be a good example.
I want to lead.
But I got this side that's a like a Tasmanian devil.
Don't control me.
Leave me alone.
All this other stuff, right?
What it did to me is the following.
Here's what it did.
I got to a point where I realized I want to have a family.
I want to have kids.
And I don't know what else am I going to get out of my system.
Like it was like, what else do I need to do to get the check mark?
Like, you know, you get that checklist with 42 things to do before you get married.
I'm at like 44.
So I'm like, okay, so what else you got to experience to say, wow, this is so cool to go out there.
What haven't you, right?
So there comes that moment where you sit there and you say, I ain't going to be this age forever.
One day I'm going to be 50, 60, 70.
Do I want to be the 62-year-old dating a 26-year-old every other day?
Or do I want to be the 60-year-old having been with the same person for 16, 17 years and looking forward because I'm teaching my son or my daughter and I'm living, you know, through them and I'm teaching them certain values and principles that maybe I learned from mistakes.
I made stuff I learned from my mom, my dad, whoever it is, and I'm passing on to somebody.
I think that's the battle for a guy who's a performer who's crushing it, sitting there saying, but for my thoughts, correct me if you disagree with this.
I think for that to happen, and I was kind of seeing what angle you were going to take, what direction you were going to go.
I think for that to happen, certain rituals has to change.
Oh, yeah.
I just think certain things have to change.
Like, for example, you know, everybody that's going after Joe Rogan, it's a cool thing to do, right?
To go after Joe Rogan.
Yeah, that's right.
Let me tell you, I can't believe he said that.
Even Joe Rogan is going after Joe Rogan Roger.
By the way, shout out to Dave Portnoy.
I don't know if you did.
Did you watch that episode or no?
Okay, no.
So you don't need to pull it up because it's on a different podcast.
But Dave Portnoy is doing a podcast with these three guys.
What's their names?
Is it Midas Media?
Oh, you didn't send me that.
Yes, yes, yes.
Midas Touch or Media's Touch, right?
Midas Touch, yes.
The Democratic super PAC.
Yeah, which, by the way, they're great for the Democrats on what they're doing.
They're super true believers.
They support them.
They go after everybody.
And they're who you want on your side, okay?
They're the Patrick Beverly.
They're that guy that you want on your team, right?
Son of a bitch.
Yeah, you want that.
Like, you know, you got three people, the dreamer, the businessman, and the son of a bitch.
You need that, right?
So what happens when you point finger nonstop to everybody?
Jojo's a racist.
Joe's this, Joe's that, Joe's this.
He said this, he said that.
So, you know, Howard Story, let me tell you, we got to do, no problem.
Okay, just yesterday, a video came out by Howard Stern making fun of Whoopi Goldberg and using, did you see how uncomfortable, it's so uncomfortable to even watch this, right?
He said so many things about this guy, okay?
About the blacks, the words he used.
And then this guy that Dave Portnoy's interviewing with them, the three guys on his podcast, look, well, Dave, let me ask you this.
Do you think it's okay for Joe to use the N-word?
So Dave says, listen, I've already answered that question.
I'm not going to answer the question again.
But here's what I will do.
So what if I told you I have a text from one of you three here that use the N-word?
And it's three brothers.
And they're quiet.
You have to see this, okay?
What if, you know, I'm able to find a text that you guys, well, prove it.
The two brothers say prove it.
One brother doesn't say prove it.
So, you know, the one brother that says prove it.
It's like, shut up.
What are you saying?
And he says, were one of you guys engaged to a girl named Lexi?
And you should see this one guy's face.
He's like, it's so classic.
I have a text that you use the N-word in the text.
And it was like, oh, shit, we can't now cancel our brother.
You know, oh, man.
So it kind of catches up to you, right?
It flips on you, turns on you.
Then the rock, well, let me tell you, you know, now that I learned I've gotten educated and rock is on.
And then it's like, hey, video comes back about what he said about the, you know, making fun of Chinese.
And so where is this thing, right?
I think certain things you have to cut away from.
You have to cut away from the idea that people walk on water and perfection.
And that's just not going to exist, right?
So let me bring you back.
I went all over the place and added four other current events, which checklists for you, Tyler.
But here's where I'm going with this.
Okay.
Here's where I'm going with this.
The older I get, the older you get, it's going to be harder to find somebody that's going to meet all the criteria you're looking for because no one walks on water.
That's number one.
So you're always going to be like, no, no, yeah, but no, no, yes.
There's got to be somebody because you don't walk on water.
Oh, shit.
I definitely don't walk on water.
So, hey, what are we going to do with this, right?
And if you're going to do that, certain things have to dramatically change.
Like if we're going to go into this era of media where we're going to be holding everybody accountable for stuff that they say, you have to know.
We have to cut away from everybody has to walk on water.
Nobody does.
The moment you open your mouth, you risk.
You risk criticizing and offending somebody.
So that's why I think I think the older you get, you have to really make a decision there and say, you know what?
I got to remember when I said, yeah, I want to build a family.
I stopped communicating with certain people that I knew I wasn't going to.
I went immediately and made a list.
I read this book and I went and started dating these four girls, not promiscuous.
This was not a sexual relationship.
I'm dating four girls.
Every one of them I did the exercise with.
And the next thing you know, you know, it got to somebody.
And I said, I think this one's going to work out.
And Jennifer and I went through the 100 wrong questions to ask before we get engaged.
18 months later, we're married.
Now we got four kids.
We're married for 12 and a half years.
Do I think that's going to last for the rest of my life?
I have no clue.
From the day I got married, I said, we're going to take this one year at a time.
And we've done it 12 times so far, right?
Because you never know what's going to change with your life or her life or anything, anything else that could happen.
All I'm saying is, if somebody at that age wants to make that dramatic change, certain lifestyle things got to change.
That's just, and I may be wrong, but that's what I'm thinking.
When people ask me, people who hate on me or criticize me, they usually come at it from two different angles.
One of them is, Rolo can't be red pill.
He's married.
So therefore, I have no experience.
I'm not out in the game and I'm not out there hustling and I'm not out there in the clubs and picking up girls and getting my notch count up.
And then there's the guys who will say, well, Rolo can't be married.
He's red pill.
And that's usually the traditional conservative guys who want to say, well, you don't agree with marriage.
Like I have, I've come out very vocally against marriage on several occasions.
And this is from a guy who has been in, you know, for the last 25 years, what I think most men would consider a pretty ideal marriage.
And when people get upset with me about saying that, you know, marriage is an unconscionable contract or men have more maneuverability, they have more flexibility, they have more opportunities outside of marriage today than they do inside marriage.
People just think I am anti-marriage.
I am not.
I would very much, I still 100%, maybe it's the old school in me, but I still 100% believe in the institution of marriage.
And I would love for nothing better than for you and anyone else watching this.
If you're a guy, I would love for you to have what I have had for the last 25 years and really 26 and a half.
But I would love for you to be able to have that, but I can't endorse that.
I can't advocate for that right now because the way we do marriage today is completely all downside risk for most guys at this point.
So when you're talking to me about like, well, you know, I just, I made out with two chicks and I got, you know, I'm on top of my game.
I'm hitting my stride.
I'm, you know, well, you're in your 40s, but let's just say, you know, 36, 38, somewhere around there.
I am at the peak of my sexual selectivity right now and I'm going to finally enjoy it because I had to eat shit from the time I was 20 or 18 in high school all the way up to where I'm at right now because I had to come up.
I had to pay my dues and get to the point where I'm at right now.
And you're telling me I've got to settle on one woman in a state of westernized marriage right now where I, first of all, I can lose half of my stuff.
And then second of all, it's like, why would I want to get into that situation when I'm finally hitting my stride?
And a lot of guys, because it takes longer for them to mature into their peak potential, they don't see any point in saying, you know, the guys who are the highest value men out there who have the money, who have the game, who have the muscles, who have all of those checkpoints off that women want to get with, the women that women are complaining, the men that women are complaining about that they can't find the right guy, you're the guy.
Not the army of beta males that they rejected all throughout their 20s.
They're complaining about a guy who won't settle down.
And now you're infantile or you have a fragile ego.
You're threatened by strong women because you won't commit to her when you're finally at the position in your life at 36 where she was when she was 23 years old.
And nobody gave her any kind of grief for it back then.
So what you're up against and what you're talking about as well is when you get to that point, you have to decide what opportunities and what are the compromises and what are the sacrifices I'm willing to make as a man in my peak potential years.
What compromises am I willing to make for a woman for me to want to say, you know what, I'm going to give up all that opportunity for you.
And is that woman going to appreciate that?
Is she going to be, oh, well, thank you for doing that?
Or is she going to be entitled to the fact that she believes that she belongs with a guy who's a high value guy as it is?
And that's the paradox that's going.
You want to know why the marriage rates are low.
You want to know why, was it?
Morgan Stanley forecast that by 2030, women in prime working demographic age, like was it 25 to 45 of that cohort, 42%, I believe, are going to be single and childless during that time by 2030.
And that's how does that change a society?
How does that change the United States?
How does that change a Western, you know, our Western way of life when we have this high, high demographic of women with population of women who are not marrying, not having kids right now?
There was just another article, I think it was in the UK, how women after 30% of women after the age of 30 don't have kids and they don't have any prospects to have kids.
That doesn't number on women.
Do they want kids, though?
But yeah, they do with you.
They want kids with the guy, well, the guy who's the high value.
They want to with a guy who's like, so they're not going to settle.
Who's of your characteristics?
There's a, and I don't know, I should have called it up, but there's actually a calculator on, it's called like the female delusion calculator.
And you type in, like women say, okay, I want a guy who's six foot tall.
I want a guy to make, you know, $100,000 a year.
He's got to be available.
There's all these little criteria, and it will show you what the percentage chance is or what percentage of the population – that's it right there.
What percentage of the population – Female delivery.
You should type that in.
Go down there and do a quick, it's very easy.
Go do a quick experiment.
Should do one for it.
Do one for him.
Do it for his age.
What's your age again?
41.
41.
So let's get into 41.
You are white.
So we can put that in.
How tall are you?
Six foot.
Six foot.
Oh, man.
And minimum income.
I presume you said you'd make six figures.
No, correct?
Okay, so it maxes out $100,000.
Okay.
Now, find the probability of finding a guy like you is 0.13%.
You can see Adam's ego just to say, you're 100,000 as much as you can.
You always say your ego is not your amigos.
I'm going to roll it.
You just ruined everything.
Chances just went lower of him.
Just watch that fucking spam.
Before you get too big ahead, before people go, oh, I don't believe that.
If you go and you look at how they rate this, these are all statistics that are available by Census Bureau data by probably GSI or something.
Car enthusiasts?
What was that?
Tyler, go back down.
I said cat enthusiasts.
Yeah, the cat gets CSS.
No, no, cat enthusiasts.
How the hell did that?
Not even me.
That's the spinsterhood factor for women.
Because that's metro.
That's for women or for men?
That's for women.
There's another one for men as well.
Looking for cats.
I got you.
So statistically speaking, if women wanted a guy that is just like you, you are a representative of 0.13% of the popul of the U.S. population.
Came over.
This is all we're going to hear all day.
My confidence just went through the roof.
What are you talking about?
All day, all month.
Now do you know why Polly is popular?
Now do you know why guys are holding, like when you get to, you know, you're hitting your stroke.
So what would you tell a guy, like if you're saying you are married, you're happily married, you want to have, like, I'm telling you, I've lived in South Beach my whole life.
You do not want to be the 60-year-old guy in the club.
I know that.
I've seen, like, I remember saying, I'm going to do well.
I'm going to make it.
I can't do that anyways.
I don't, like, there's no chance I'm going to be 50 still out there in the club, a club space in Miami.
It's not happening.
Like, but what would you tell a guy?
Because there's a lot of, there's entrepreneurs here, people who believe in capitalism, people with self-improvement.
A lot of people watch this channel because they want to do better and they get thinking big.
This is kind of what our brand is.
What would you tell the person, whether they're 32, 35, 40, 45, whatever, and they haven't settled down yet?
What advice do you have for them?
I'll tell you, I had this conversation with my friend Rich Cooper, and he asked me on his show one time, how did you vet for Mrs. Tomasi?
And my answer was, I didn't vet her.
I vetted myself first.
I asked myself, the first question I said is like when I was considering actually being married to anyone at that point, was, is this a person that I can be faithful to?
Is this a person that I can, because I know what happens when a couple splits up.
I know what happens to a family, to multiple families, to the children, to everything else that goes along in there.
One of the, I think the unspoken importances of the red pill is that we don't, well, it will at least allow you to see like the ripple effect, the cascade effect.
So what are your actions doing right now that are going to affect other people?
And so when I was vetting my wife, I don't say even vetting, I had to vet myself.
I said, can I be faithful to this woman?
Because I know me.
I've seen me do it, right?
I've been the cheated on and I have been the cheater myself in my past, right?
And so I don't want to open that can of worms if I can't be 100%.
And the answer was yes, I could.
And that was the first question I asked myself.
And really, I think in your instance right now, what opportunities are you willing to sacrifice?
What are you willing to compromise right now?
Are you willing to compromise making out with two girls on the beach?
Are you willing to compromise the opportunities?
It's like opportunity.
There you go.
Right here.
Here's your pros and cons.
Pros and cons.
What are you willing to sacrifice and what's a deal breaker and what's not a deal breaker?
And then what you have to do is once you have decided what that is, you have to set that against the girls that you think are good candidates for a long-term relationship.
That's very difficult for guys to do right now.
Well, what is the biggest fear in somebody in his situation?
Is it just I have to be with one for the rest of my life?
I can't party anymore.
I have to give up some of my freedom.
What else is it?
Why would somebody?
Opportunity cost.
Opportunity cost, for sure.
Like, what are the opportunities that even myself, I'll take myself as an example too.
I've been married for 25 years.
What opportunities have I missed out?
And not just sexual opportunities.
I mean, like business opportunities or job opportunities or relocation opportunities or family or whatever else that maybe I wanted to do that I could not do as a result of having a relationship with being in a marriage, having a kid, having my dogs, whatever else.
All of that stuff, all the responsibilities that we say is, you know, men need to take on responsibilities.
Well, those responsibilities come at a cost.
And that cost is generally scaled out at whatever those opportunities were that you could have invested yourself into had you not been, had you not been single or had you not been married at that time.
You would not be who you are right now at 42 with the money you have and being certainly 0.13% of the population had you made a different decision when you were 28, 30 years old when I got married, right?
I'm a different person as a result of that.
It's life choices, it's lifestyle decisions, but most guys don't make those decisions based on educated assumptions.
So right now, you have a life of learned experiences that you can kind of reflect back on.
You're probably a better judge of character.
What's the joke?
Men don't become men until they're 30 years old.
And so the reason why I say don't consider monogamy until you're 30, or you certainly don't even consider marriage, if you're going to consider marriage, until you get to be about 34, 35 years old, is because you're at that point where you're finally hitting your stride and you're a better judge of character and you're better able to make that estimate, that evaluation between what are the opportunities I'm going to miss and what are the benefits of me settling down with a woman for a very long time and making things work out.
Would you call that earlier frame?
That's definitely your frame.
You have to have the frame, by the way, is the world into which you enter or she enters.
And you right now have a world that a lot of certainly a lot of women would like to enter into.
And so you have to come in.
Well, and then you also have to make sure that you have to keep that in mind when you're making the decision.
Is this someone that I can be faithful to?
You said that was the first question that you asked yourself when you were going to settle down.
Why was that the first question?
I was asking you to ask me.
Well, because, like I said, I know me.
Definitely it is because it is, I think a lot of people underappreciate the effect of genuine desire.
And genuine desire is like unmitigated, like, you know, in a sexual sense, it's unmitigated lust.
Like there's a qualifiable difference between a man where a woman says, I want to have kids.
It's time for me to have kids.
My biological clock is ticking.
And that woman says, I want to have his babies.
I want to have that guy's family.
I basically want to reproduce with that guy.
There's a big difference between those two statements.
And has it been hard for you, being what you talk about and what you stand for, to be faithful?
No, because I was able to answer that question back then.
Can I be faithful to her?
And she was, she was everything I was looking for.
Still is everything I'm looking for.
He's about to get emotional.
No, no, Adam will cross the ball.
That's when you're 28, that's, yeah, okay, I'll be faithful.
Well, I've had a lot of things.
We've seen the video of Urban Meyer, who's married and whatever, and now he's getting a lap dance at the bar from a girl in Jacksonville.
And I'm not sure that he, I don't know what he did that was necessarily too wrong, but he wasn't necessarily faithful.
But what you say when you're 28, what happens when you're 41 in a club?
Yeah, but Jordan Peterson, let me ask you a question.
What did you think when Jordan Peterson said, you know, divorce should be 100% out of the question?
Oh, that's right.
How do you process that?
How do you process that?
Yeah, Jordan Peterson said that no matter how bad your marriage is, you should stay married for the sake of the kids.
Essentially advocating for the what, nuclear family?
Is that 100%?
So even as miserable as you are, you're fighting, you're not having sex with your, you know, you're not meant to be, at what point do you say, you know, we tried enough enough.
What is your marriage?
And at what age of the kids?
Okay, at age of kids.
Ask him.
Do you think no matter what, you should stay married?
I think that if you, again, one of the reasons why I vetted myself before I vetted my wife was because of exactly that.
Can I be faithful to this person?
Because if I can't, then I should not be reproducing and starting a family and building this huge, you know, world or my frame around all of this if that one little point, if that one fundamental point can't be maintained.
So yes, sex is the glue that holds relationships together.
Sex is the glue that holds marriages together.
And if that falls apart, I mean, you go look at the statistics for sexless marriages in the United States right now.
It's like something like at least 20%.
And a sexless marriage, by the way, is like 10 times a year, right?
Like once a month or, you know, and then skip two months.
I think that's what the.
But you're saying you should stay married even if you're in a sexless relationship?
I think that once you're already in that, I think it's very important to, as far as raising the children, if you want to build strong families.
Now, a lot of people will disagree with me on that because they'll say, well, I'm not getting what I need out of the relationship.
And it's usually the woman that is saying that.
It's not so much the man.
Men will put up and tolerate way more than women will when it comes to like a bad marriage because they have more to lose.
Women are more incentivized, financially incentivized to file for divorce.
This is one of the reasons why 70% of divorces are initiated by women.
Then you get like social narratives like what we call divorce porn, which is like eat, pray, love, right?
Or Stella got her groove back or just divorce him, girl.
He's not the one for you.
He was never your soulmate.
You need to go run off to Jamaica and have a good time and find your soulmate there after you divorce.
It's a pretty good movie, but that's about it.
It's divorce porn.
It's a fantasy for women who are like, who get to the point where they settled on a guy who was not the one, was not their soulmate.
The one that got away was the guy in their college days.
And they get to, you want to know why they call it the seven-year itch?
It's because it's usually right around seven years that women have that, you know, they decide, is he the best that I can do?
And more and more, certainly since the 70s, the answer to that is no.
And to the point where we can go build very profitable franchises and romance novels and narratives.
Go look at anything.
Netflix has chock full of those narratives.
50 Shades of Grayson was like the biggest thing I'm going to say.
50 Shades of Gray, by the way, remember, 50 Shades of Gray was self-published.
It was not like he put errors in the book.
Yes, and it sold 65 million copies in the first year that it was a very good thing.
What do you mean, a few errors of the family?
Oh, it was self-published.
The guy had like who's whose lose lose loose loose like spelling garrison.
It was basically fan fiction, but it was just rewritten by EL or EL something or I can't remember last time.
50-some-year-old.
Late 40.
I don't know how old she was, but she was about to.
I hit on a very popular narrative because it's a fantasy.
It's a fantasy of, and it's a fantasy with a lot of commonalities in it as well.
But you have to look at the popularity of that.
I mean, I remember in, you talked about church, I remember church women going, have you read 50 Shades of Gray?
I can't wait till the movie comes out.
And it was all good in the hood to be reading this.
The movie sucked, but the soundtrack was.
And you know what pastors of the era did?
You know, religious guys of the era did.
They said, oh, it's a failure of men.
It's a failure of men that we've allowed this to happen with women or we can't measure up to that.
And so we're ready to self-flagellate and blame ourselves for those, for the impulses which are.
So let me ask a question, just from you.
I'm going to ask a question.
Do you think the more intel you get, the more it's kind of like, well, shoot, you got to do this and you got to do, oh my, this guy said this and that guy.
you know, this guy said, oh, but this guy said, but that guy said this, but this guy said this.
Were you kind of like- Data overload?
Yeah.
Yeah, data overload to the point where you can't make a decision.
Do you think that kind of hurts a little bit?
I can see if you're the type of person that gets in your head and second guesses everything why that would hurt.
But I'm the type of person that's going to remember the two or three most powerful things that someone says.
And I say, all right, cool.
This is what I'm taking from this.
Because not everyone's going to remember every single part of this issue.
No, that's not what I'm asking.
No, that's not what I'm asking.
What I'm asking is, I think you understand what I'm asking.
What I'm asking is it's kind of like you almost read, like, if I knew at 21 years old how hard it was going to be to be an entrepreneur and somebody would have told me, I don't know if I would have gone.
If somebody would have told me flat out, here's, I would have been like, if they would have sat there and said, let me tell you, here's what's going to be, Like, it was more, listen, if you do this, here's what your life could look like.
This is the dream.
This is the dream life that could look like.
But guess what?
The chances of you living this dream life is 1%.
If that scares the crap out of you, don't do it.
If you're all in and your dreams matter, go for it.
Go light it up, right?
But the choice and the onus is on who?
On you and I have to do that.
Marriage.
I had to get to this place to get married, just so you know.
I'll tell you where I had to get to.
I had to get to divorce was a challenge because my parents got a divorce.
And as a kid, I always, like as a kid, I think about when my dad would walk up the stairs in Iran and he would come to the fourth floor.
The happiest day of my moment of my day was the five minutes when I would see his head go like this with the steps because our door was glass.
And I would see his head go up like this.
I would run up to him.
Five minutes wrestle.
I'd go to sleep.
I was good.
I was at peace.
Right.
When they got a divorce, that head coming up the steps disappeared in my life.
That's it.
Believe it or not, that's all I remember.
I love that moment with my mom and dad.
They got a divorce, right?
And they got divorced twice in 20 years, by the way, my parents.
So I sat there and I said, well, and both of them, neither one of them were supportive of the other.
It's kind of like, well, you know, marriage is not this.
And let me tell you, woman is a man is all this stuff, right?
I should have done this and I should have done this and I should have done this.
And this was this girl and there was this guy.
And what if this everybody?
You don't understand.
When I was younger, we always say, when I was younger, I was so attracted.
I was so disappointed.
Okay, great.
Fantastic.
So there's some regrets we're all going to have, no matter what the decision we make, right?
Okay.
And then later on, it got to a point where I said, all right, so let's just face it, there's a possibility that I could get a divorce.
But guess what?
Parents did the right thing getting a divorce.
My parents did the right thing getting a divorce and you turned out okay.
And so did your sister turn out okay.
So this whole thing that it's going to ruin the kids, it does.
Absolutely, it does.
Emotionally, fear, all this anxiety, 1 million percent.
Buy yourself, dad's not there.
I can't come.
I can't talk to somebody.
The phases you go through as a kid being bullied, certain you don't have, you can't talk to your mom the same way you talk to your dad, the same we can't talk to your dad the way you talk to your mom about certain things, right?
So when that disappears, it's going to mess with you a little bit.
But there's books, there's therapy, there's church, there's a lot of different ways you can rehash that and heal yourself, just like you have, just like I've had, just like many of us have had to do, right?
Then it got to a point where I said, the one simple question.
All right.
So what's the worst case scenario?
What's going to happen?
Okay, let's look at both ways.
What's the worst thing that's going to happen that if you choose not to get married?
You're 63 years old, sitting there saying, shh.
One of your friend's son is graduating from college and you're there and all you're thinking about is while you're clapping for this kid, you're thinking about when your friend had that kid and he met the girl and you were there and I kids graduated in college and I was a doctor and the emotional moment the father experienced with the son or the daughter, you're saying, I want that.
You know?
Or you're by yourself and you have all these girlfriends that you're with, but there's nobody that you have depth of 30 years to share memories with.
You're like, man, it'd be kind of cool to have that.
Best friendships, when I see you and Keith together, it's freaking awesome.
Well, when we went to dinner the other day, who spoke the less at the dinner the other day?
I didn't speak at all.
For three hours, I just listened to the stories.
It was freaking amazing seeing the connection that you guys have.
That's like a marriage, except it's a friendship, but it's a marriage, right?
Some friends didn't make it.
Some are not with us.
Some are not here with us.
And that's just the reality of it.
But the worst case scenario on the other side is if it doesn't work out, it's a divorce.
If it's a divorce, you can take everything away from me.
Not true.
There's great legal teams out there.
They can set things up upfront to manage expectations up front.
There's something called nuptial agreement.
So the financial side, okay, that's out the window.
Arrangements, what about this?
No, you're going to be fine with that as well because everything can be on paper up front, okay?
Those are the things that takes it out because I'm from the school of thought of where I'm at today.
I don't think, you know, a lot of people are like, listen, I'm at that age, I got to get married because everyone's getting married.
That's not true.
Who cares if everyone's getting married?
Everyone's having kids.
Who cares if everyone gets married?
That's not a reason to get married.
That's not a reason to get married at all.
For either.
Absolutely.
I've met people that are not married and they're very happy.
They're very, very happy and content.
But I've met more people that are not married and they're miserable.
It's just everything becomes, a guy put a comment here and I said, fantastic comment that you just put up.
It's odds.
Everything is about odds.
Everything in life is about odds.
There is no 100% bid in an investment.
It just doesn't exist.
Well, I think a lot of people believe that they're going to just stumble into a perfect turnkey relationship.
And you have to remember that like a relationship, a good marriage, or even a good friendship is something that you develop over time.
It's like building a project together.
It is not just about like, oh, look, I found this, you know, my brand new car and I'm going to go drive my brand new car.
It's something that you have to build upon.
It's almost like an art project.
It's like you collaborate.
I play in a band, right?
We make music together.
All four of us make music together.
And it's not just about one particular guy.
It's about all of us coming together, collaborating, putting something together.
If you look at it in that perspective, then yeah, it becomes something that's, I think, I know Dr. Peterson would say it's like more meaningful, but I would say it's certainly more substantial.
It's more impactful.
And it produces something greater than the sum of the parts.
So I definitely believe that.
One of the reasons why I was saying that, you know, I think that staying together for the sake of the kids, a lot of guys will end up doing that.
Joseph, remember that divorce was that 50% of marriages end in divorce as it is right now.
And again, then we have to look at what's the societal impact of divorce?
What's the societal impact of single mothers?
What is the societal impact of women who electively have kids?
Was it 42% of children are born out of wedlock in the United States today?
That's 42% of children born in the United States are born out of wedlock today.
That's why terrible.
Yes.
Either electively or they were together and then they split up afterwards.
And that's just across the non-demographics.
It's just like across the board.
So what does that do to a society?
What does, you know, should we stay together for the kids?
The other thing comes down to a, and this is a little, I think a little more ephemeral of a thought here is like, what is your, what is more important to you, your commitment or your commitment to the ideal of commitment, meaning like, I keep my commitments.
That's my commitment to an ideal.
So it doesn't matter how bad this situation gets, I stuck it out because when I commit, I commit to something.
Or is your commitment to yourself saying, this isn't working for me?
I'm my own mental point of origin.
I am the primary in this.
And this commitment was a bad deal.
And now I need to get out of it because I can't live like this anymore.
Is your commitment more your is it more important to be committed to something or is it more important to be committed to yourself?
And that's where guys get when they get into that situation, when they thought it was a great deal when they got married and they find out that it's a raw deal afterwards.
And then they also have to take into account the opportunities and the things that they could have participated in had they not make that commitment in the first place.
That's why I said when you're talking about, well, how should I vet my wife?
Understand what the opportunity costs are in there.
Most guys never have even occasion to even think about that.
They can't believe that they're having sex with the girl in the first place.
Oh, wow, she must be the one, right?
And they're willing to go forward from that perspective and never get to the point where they're actually thinking about standards or vetting or anything else that goes along with that because either they're too low value or they're too high value and they're not, they don't, on their way to their high valueness, to being an entrepreneur, making their first million or whatever, they're not thinking about those questions.
And so they get into a similar state of like trouble as a result of that.
So when I say, you know, I think that divorce, you know, women will say this all the time.
Divorce is off the table.
You think you just said it a second ago.
There's this idea that divorce should never be a consideration.
But I'll say in the certainly in the 21st century, divorce is always on the table.
It is always something that is available to women.
It is always something that's going to say, is he not the one?
Is he not the one?
Is he the best I can do?
And if that answer is no, there's always that option for her.
For men, it's cheaper to keep her most of the time.
It's cheaper to keep her because they don't want to go through all of the rigor morale involved with separating and getting out of that.
So those are things that I think every guy, when they're saying, oh, I think I want to get married.
I want to have kids.
I want to go forward.
Those are questions that you have to ask yourself and ask them from an educated perspective.
So listen, for the listener that's listening to this, here's one thing I do want to say before we wrap up is many times I see guys and gals who hear a message and they immediately make an emotional decision.
So meaning they call their husband and say, you know what, we're done.
Call their wife and say, let's get married.
Listen, guys, this is just a conversation that we could have gone five more hours.
This isn't a conversation for you to all of a sudden make a life-changing decision to go get divorced, get married, or get somebody knocked up.
Not at all.
This is some extreme ton of processing going on that we spoke openly and everybody gave different scenarios.
You got a guy here that's been married for 25 years in July whose daughter turned 23 and he's given his perspective.
I'm married for 12 years with four kids and I'm a different story.
And then you got a guy that's a single 0.13% one in a thousand type of guy who's 40, 39 or 40 years old and he's single and is thinking about whether he should get married or not.
Everybody has a different life.
Everybody have a different situation they're dealing with.
No two stories are the same.
You just got to make sure when you're making bigger decisions in life, you don't jump to conclusion emotionally.
Just kind of take your time a little bit more before you get too crazy.
Be rational.
Reason before emotion.
Reason is.
Feels before feels.
No question about it.
This seems to be a common theme, by the way.
But this is a very aligned, what do you call it, a language with me.
I was talking to a guy the other day.
He says, how are things?
Good.
I said, tell me about your family.
How many kids you guys got?
We got one kid.
Are you guys trying for two?
We've been trying for five years.
And you could tell he felt the pain, right?
That's an emotional thing, right there.
And I said, listen, bro, there's certain things I have no control of.
I rely on a man upstairs.
I try to do whatever I can to lead what I can't control.
The stuff I cannot control, I'm not going to do it.
I can't read her mind.
I can't read future.
I can't do any of that stuff.
The more you try to do everything right, you're going to break shit.
So some things got to be left to the man upstairs, some things you got to do, and the rest, see how things turn out.
Would you say that God is the third person in your marriage?
In ours?
Absolutely.
I told this story like 12 podcasts ago.
I'm dating a girl.
Her and I love each other.
We enjoy each other's company.
I get to a point that I want to get married.
I said, listen, I don't know if I know what it is to be married.
I think we need to go find a church.
I'm an atheist at the time.
I'm telling you, Ryan, I'm an atheist at the time.
I don't believe in God.
My life has never given me a single example to believe in God.
It's given me a thousand examples to not believe that there's a God.
So I don't want to go through this mess.
And I told her, I said, I want us to go to church.
She says, what are you talking about?
I'm not going to church.
Are you becoming religious?
I said, I'm the last guy who you would call religious.
But if we want to get married, I do want to get married.
If you want to get married, I want to get married.
I think we've got to figure out a way to follow a manual.
Let's pick a manual.
So are we going to pick the Scientology manual?
Are we going to pick the Christianity manual?
Are we going to pick the Judaism?
Are we going to pick the LBS?
What's the constitution of your relationship?
Let's pick a manual and go find the best manual that we grown.
We went to church one time and I came out.
I said, listen, why don't we try to go one month without sex?
She says, what are you talking about?
Let's go one month without sex.
And it was the most awkward month.
And the reason why I said, let's go one month without sex is just to see what do we talk about outside of sex.
What commonalities do we talk about outside of sex?
I got to tell you, it was confusing for both of us.
Guess what happened a month later?
Relationship ended.
You know what's crazy?
She's happily married, got a couple kids.
I'm happily married.
I got four kids.
But I needed the man upstairs because I, by myself, you know, sometimes you need that person to be in your life.
You know, when we sit there and we pray with our kids in certain situations that we have no concern, daddy, what do I do?
I said, buddy, your daddy doesn't have all the answers.
There's certain things that we got to pray about.
And those things, your mommy and daddy cannot help you out with.
So anyways, I don't want to make this a spiritual.
So let's just end with all holding hands.
Heavenly Father.
So anyways, folks, this week, last week we did four podcasts.
And this week we're only doing one podcast.
I think next week we're back to two or three podcasts again.
Actually, I'm traveling again next week.
But we have John Perkins on Tuesday.
Oh, John Perkins.
Economic man.
Oh, he's hot.
You know who he is, John Perkins.
Yeah, the economic history.
He's the one that goes to countries, negotiates with the prime ministers, and says, if you don't do it, we're either going to take you out or we're going to ruin your economy.
And he did that for a living for like a long time.
We have some surprise guests that's coming up, by the way, that we can't release yet.
We got some guys.
We got some surprises, but we got Jason Miller from Getter on Thursday.
Oh, that's going to be interesting.
That's next Thursday.
Okay.
Very cool.
Okay.
Gang.
Rolo will be here back with us on Thursday on the SASCAS with some ladies.
Absolutely.
We're going to put the link below.
The Rational Mail, 5,000 plus reviews on Amazon.
Go order the book.
Let's put the link both on the chat box as well as the description.
And having said that, Rolo, thanks for coming out, buddy.
