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Patrick Bet-David Podcast Episode 42 with guests Senada Adzem and Adam Sosnick. Download the podcasts on all your favorite platforms https://bit.ly/3sFAW4N
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Paul, the way you did it, you sounded very confident, by the way.
Yeah.
Did you hear that?
Like it's.
Paul has what is known as irrational conversation.
Are we officially live?
I wish you would have seen the way Paul set us up to go live, but we're officially live now on the podcast.
This is episode number 42 or 41.
Is there 42 episode number 42?
Jackie Robinson.
We have Adam here with us.
We have a friend of ours, Sonata Ajem, right here, a top luxury realtor.
You've been doing real estate for how long now?
The top.
The top.
In all of Boca, she's number one.
And maybe in all the world.
Yes.
No, no, no, but here she's, here's all I can say to you.
I went to.
I went to what is that, Waldorf, Astoria?
Yeah, of course.
I'm having lunch over there after we had a visit together.
It was yourself, Marcus, me, my wife, and we looked at the house in Del Rey.
Yes.
Where, you know, the one on the other side.
I don't know which one if you know which one I'm talking about.
No, we went to see a house in Royal Palm Yad and Country Club.
I think that was the one.
We did, but we also looked at the one with the Rocky Brook one, yes.
So I came back.
We're having lunch at this restaurant.
The girl comes back.
I have the flyer sitting right there.
She says, so you work with her?
I said, I work with who?
It's me, Jen, you know, kids.
You work with her.
I said, I'm sorry.
I'm confused.
Sonata.
I said, no, but we just met her real nice.
You know, we met her, her husband.
She says, well, I hate to say this, but I have to say it anyways.
I said, what is it?
She says, she's a competitor of ours, but she's the best here.
If you work with her, you're in very good hands.
I'm just telling you, everybody's competitors are giving a shout out.
Free body salutes.
Sonata.
Sonata sells 10, 20, 30, 40 million dollar homes.
So it's not, you know, it's a different market you're in, but it's good to have you on here with us.
For some that don't know, we'll get into your story here in a minute.
I think you used to be a top VP with the Trump organization years ago.
You came out here.
You've done incredible here yourself in real estate.
And with the current state of things, I think it's probably a good idea.
We talk a little bit of real estate.
You educate us on that.
And then since you're from Bosnia, you also have some thoughts about what Zlatnan said about LeBron James.
I can't wait to hear your commentary about that.
But let's get into some of the talk.
Before we get into it, can we also welcome a special guest back to the podcast?
Who's that?
Kai?
You, baby.
Where are you?
It's good to be back.
You've been in Hawaii.
You've been driving.
What's going on?
I watched what you guys did, what you did with Kai and Tom.
It was fun watching you guys.
You hosting, sitting on this side.
It was exciting to see that.
I kept your chair warm, but we're glad to have you back.
But it's good to be back.
I mean, obviously, Hawaii was a great experience.
It's a 12-hour flight.
And when I lived in LA, it was a five-hour flight.
When you're living here, you got the flight, the stops, all that stuff.
We were the biggest event Hawaii had, an elite incentive trip.
We had about 450 people there.
We were the biggest event since COVID.
Everywhere you went, it was on the news.
They were all talking about it.
They were so excited to see tourism coming back.
That's really cool.
Because that's how they make their money.
And Hawaii took a very big kid during COVID, but it was a great experience.
You know, good times.
I got some thoughts I'll give at the end of the podcast.
We had a phenomenal time in Hawaii.
So now that you're in Florida, Floridians don't go to Hawaii for vacation.
They go to the Bahamas.
They go to Jamaica.
They go to St. Bart's.
Whatever.
We like to challenge ourselves.
We move here.
Hey, I'm going to Florida and I'm flying the exact opposite direction.
That's double dose.
But you had an awesome trip.
We had a great time.
And the tan is on point.
Yes, we had a great time.
The kids swam nonstop.
We ran into Armon from Rafi's place.
The best spot here.
You're kidding me.
He came out.
You didn't know Armon was going to be there.
They had no idea.
He messages me saying, don't tell me in Maui.
I said, I'm in Maui.
He says, you got to be 10 minutes away.
Kids hung out.
We had a great company.
Now we're trying to get him to open up a Rafi's place in Florida, but we'll see if that's going to happen.
I think Florida needs a Rafi's place.
Oh, yeah.
I think South Florida needs a place to be a place.
You can eat outdoors and you can't do that.
Exactly.
Exactly.
Sonata, let's get some real estate on there.
Let's make it happen.
Let me give the stories on what we got.
Let's go.
Then we're going to focus on Sonata, and then we'll go into the story.
I think that's the formatting.
So here's the issues we got going on today.
Walmart is thinking about coming out with the Bank of Walmart, and they just recruited two top Goldman Sachs folks away, which they're not just anybody.
We'll cover that here in a minute.
New York, Wall Street Journal did an article saying the old New York will not be coming back.
Obviously, a lot of people are thinking the old New York will be coming back.
They're saying it's not going to happen.
We'll see what's going to happen.
There, Dow Jones surges 600 points as Johnson Johnson announces their new coronavirus vaccine debut.
Texas top electric company files for bankruptcy.
I think it's a $2.1 billion bankruptcy after what took place.
And you would have never thought for this to be taking place.
Everybody was surprised by it.
We may cover that.
Mail fraud, United Airlines paying $49 million for scamming the USPS.
For years, this was happening, and now they got to cut the check.
Buffett, in his annual meeting that he had, he made a lot of different statements.
Number one, he bet on America, he says, always bet on America.
Then he talked about fixed-income investors may face bleak futures.
Bonds will cover that.
And some other announcements about him buying back $25 billion repurchase.
I mean, when you're buying back shares like that, what are you saying about your company?
Confidence.
I feel we're going places.
You buy $25 billion back?
That's respectful of what they do.
We'll cover that.
Chinese businessman charged with stealing G trade secrets.
The CPAC speech.
I don't know if you guys watch it or not.
I watched the whole thing.
You know, he made a lot of comments.
We'll make cover some of the stuff that he said.
Hyatt had some issues with that.
And then we have, let me see what else we got here.
Minimum wage, Iran nuclear deal, Syria strike, Biden administration urges, urge to penalize Saudi crown prince over the Khashoggi killing.
We may cover that.
And then Twitter had some stuff.
And obviously, we cannot do all of this without the Zlatan commentary of what he said with LeBron James, which, just so you know, I'm a die-hard Zlatan fan.
Same.
I am a die-hard slottin fan, but this may be a different thing.
Same.
Yeah.
I'm a die-hard's Latin fan, but we'll go to that here in a minute.
So, real estate.
Tell us a little bit about your experience with real estate.
How long you've been around and what's going on today for the buyer, for the seller, for the investor.
What are your thoughts on the real estate market today?
Real estate is on fire.
I have never seen anything like this ever before.
I mean, I've been doing it for 20 years now, and I've lived through the recession and the irrational exuberance of 2005 and 2006.
But what's happening now is so extraordinary in that the luxury sector is facing such low supply and such high demand that we're all in awe and just observing what's going to happen next.
So I'm really fascinated by this huge exodus from New York.
I was just talking with Adam earlier.
All of the New Yorkers we know are now living in Florida.
So it was all about tax situations.
A lot of tax refugees coming down.
Tax refugees.
Yes.
Wow.
And a lot of families who are coming for lifestyle.
And it's a whole different ballgame now, particularly when you were talking about corporate relocations.
You have Goldman Sachs, FKKR, they're all coming down here.
And do you think this is going to stop with New York?
Or do you think this is going to continue?
I think this is going to continue, not just because of tax benefits of being here, but also because people post-COVID or hopefully we're in the post-COVID world have realized that they want a little more space.
They want a little more air to breathe and less density.
So I think it's going to continue like this.
It's interesting you say low supply, high demand.
So you put a house on a market, and we're not talking about $500,000 homes, million, two million dollar homes.
You put a house on a market, $27 million house, boom, like this.
It's gone.
Two, three offers, closed, done.
30 days, 60 days.
And you know, Tim, we're good friends with Tim.
You know, Tim, shout out to Tim Elms, who is a genius realtor.
He thinks like a Tom Ellsworth.
He's just, his brain doesn't stop.
He just constantly.
Super smart.
One time we went and looked at a house.
It was the greatest experience.
It was pure showman.
We had such a great time.
So we go in, we're looking at this one house, and it's me and Jennifer.
Tim walks in, he looks at this realtor and says right off the bat, why the hell would they put this right here?
Why would the builder put this right?
This is 1980 stuff.
And him and the realtor get into an argument right in front of us.
I'm like, Tim, just, it's okay, buddy.
And then he walks and says, where's the pantry?
How do you not put a pantry into a $4 million house?
You go, where's the pantry?
Do you expect them to put it in the garage?
So I'm like, is there an issue going on here with these two guys?
So then they go outside.
He says, let me see the backyard.
There's a pool and there's no fence.
There's a little bit of a creek back there.
He says, nope, you got to put a fence here.
There's going to be alligators there.
He says, sir, I've been selling homes here for 30 years.
There's not a single alligator.
I guarantee you, alligators are going to be found in your swimming pool.
So at this point, Jennifer just steps away and we're just sitting there.
They're going for 15 minutes fighting.
We're just cracking up.
That's Tim Elms.
He represents you very well.
He's a good friend of my friends.
He's a good friend.
He's a good guy.
So he said to me, he says, Patrick, I just want you to know people who are moving here are billionaires.
So if you're going to make an offer, just know who you're going up against.
There are people that have money that don't care about 28 million, 32 million.
Get what you want, but don't overnegotiate right now because of what's going on.
Obviously, we've gone through a few different homes and we've seen them go like this, just our own experience.
Absolutely.
So how long do you think it's going to stay buyer's market?
Because my concern is with rates, right?
We saw last week the rates went up slightly and you saw the market respond to it.
What's going to happen when Powell or whoever is going to be running the Federal Reserve eventually raises the rates back to what there used to be, 5%, 6%?
What's going to happen there?
Or do you think this number is still going to be going up?
The market's still going to be going up.
I think so.
I think the strength of the luxury real estate market is directly correlated with the strength of the stock market.
So it's psychology, right?
If you feel really good about your portfolio and you're like, no, I'm staying here.
I'm going to buy, upgrade, I'm going to buy something bigger.
But the rates are impacting more lower, up to $3 million segments.
So people who need to finance, right?
And however rates are going to impact the stock market, I think then it's going to impact the ultra-luxury.
So not the ultra, so the ultra-luxury, because it's a niche, they're not going to be affected by it.
But other folks who are maybe in the $500,000, $1 million, $2 million, they will be affected by the rates.
Absolutely.
Okay.
Interesting.
Because is that because the ultra-rich keep getting richer and to them, it's not a big deal to move into a place and even overpay for a property?
Pretty much.
I mean, it's emotional and it's a completely different ballgame when you're dealing with super rich versus when you're dealing with people with families who have to buy at a particular price.
They have very strict budgets.
So it's much more emotional driven.
And what I've noticed, it's all about psychology, right?
So when things are going really well, and particularly during the pandemic when people were scared, times of uncertainty bring out the best in people or the worst in people.
So fear is a very unique motivator even with the super rich clients.
So just this is a trick question for you.
What is the cheapest home you ever sold?
I don't know, $700,000.
$700,000.
Okay, so $700,000 all the way up to?
At $25,000, $27,000.
Okay, so $700,000 to $25,000, $27,000.
What is the, when you're dealing with approach, approach with a $700,000 client versus a $25,000, $26 million client?
The reason why I asked that is because, you know, I worked in finance last 20 years, so I'm dealing with a client that wants to put $20 a month into a term policy and they just want to protect themselves for $100,000 or a quarter million.
That's all they can afford, right?
I'm just going to put, I'm going to set aside $100 in a mutual fund versus you're dealing with a client that's talking about, you know, $100 million, a bigger number.
It's a completely different approach with them.
Is it for you as well?
It is a different approach, but it boils down to a common denominator, and that's the needs, right?
What do those people need?
So if a family is really driven by, you know, relocation, job is here.
So he, let's say, a husband doesn't want to commute too far, then we're just really strictly focused on that.
With the ultra high net worth clients, it's a completely different approach in that their needs are, let's say, you know, where my kids are going to go to school.
Am I going to have space for the staff?
Am I going to have the ability to work from home?
Because most of these clients are big CEOs and they want to have the ability to have huge offices at their home.
And the pandemic, by the way, has had a huge impact on how people think and what these needs are.
You know, before it was just, I need a house.
Now it's more like I need a home because I get to be stuck in my home for so long.
So my perception of the space has transformed.
That's a good point because many people are working from home for the last 12 months.
Sonata, how easy is it for you to sell people from all other states to move to Florida?
If you were the governor of Florida, recruiting, recruitment.
Governor Sonata.
Governor Sonata.
Governor Sonada Ajem is kind of like Governor Perry would go to California and he would recruit everybody and he would do all these radio.
If you're a small business owner, you're going through high regulation and you don't like the taxes, why don't you come down to Texas?
Is that your Rick Perry?
That's kind of what happened.
We met with Rick Perry and he brought in Nolan Ryan, Don Nelson.
He says, let me tell you about Texas.
And then he recruited an incredible recruiting approach that they had.
But if you were the governor of Florida, how would you recruit people to the state of Florida?
Oh my God.
I almost want to tell them to slow down.
Wow.
Governor DeSantis, take it easy, buddy.
No, it's almost like so many people.
Too many are coming.
Is that what it is?
It's like 1,000 a day coming to Florida.
So we need to be able to keep up with the infrastructure.
But it's so easy to recruit because it's like, look at this lifestyle, you know, and also the pandemic was horrific for so many people and so many families.
And they look at Florida, not just in terms of lifestyle.
We go out to restaurants and it's not as strict as most other states.
So they look at Florida like, wow, you guys are having fun.
Like, what's going on?
It's so crazy you say that.
You know, you post Instagram stories and people will say, well, lucky you, you can go to a restaurant.
I'm like, lucky.
I mean, because I lived in Texas.
And even in Texas, we'd go to restaurants and we go to Toulouse.
But Martin, which I miss Martin, you know, our friend from France.
So we go to Toulouse and you're sitting there, you're having a good time.
Great.
Everybody would send messages.
How are you able to do that?
Why are you able to do that in your state?
You come to Florida, same exact thing here.
But that's not normal for everybody else.
That's not normal.
I think this is such a bubble.
It's almost la-la-land in Florida due to regulations during and post-COVID, due to the weather, right?
And due to low density areas.
So it's a whole different ballgame, what's going on here.
So easy time recruiting people to Florida.
I don't need to recruit them.
How often do you hear a luxury real estate agent saying, relax, we don't need you here right now, buddy?
I've sold enough.
Stay in the house.
$20 million homes.
Let me take it easy.
Well, let me ask you an opposite question.
Can you sell people on staying in Florida?
Staying in New York?
New York, oh, that's a million-dollar question.
I think a lot of them are thinking of coming down, relocating the companies, families, everyone.
So I think once the weather gets better in New York and once post-COVID time has improved, right, I think a lot of people will want to stay in New York.
But New York, there's something so special and magical about New York and it's so resilient.
I think it's going to transform.
But for now, Florida is a place to be.
Not just for business reasons and what you were talking about, taxes, right?
It's the place to be.
So what's going on in New York right now?
Like, obviously, supply and demand, you talked about demand is ridiculously high here in Florida.
Supply is low.
Flip it.
I mean, we're talking New York and New Jersey, Connecticut, just that whole area.
What's happening with the real estate market there?
Are prices down 20%?
Like, can you get a good deal on it?
Like, if you believe in New York and New Jersey and you're like, look, things are weird now, but by 2022, things are going to be back to normal.
Maybe we're good.
What's happening in that market from what you've seen?
From what we've seen, New York is definitely down in terms of real estate.
Prices are down anywhere from 25% to in some instances 35%.
Yeah.
So if you bought a place for a million bucks in New York, which is a shoebox in New York, your condo, whatever it is, because I have a buddy that just bought something like right before the pandemic, his place is maybe worth $7.50 now.
That's correct.
So real estate doesn't always go up, like Newsflash.
Well, I mean, correct.
And in New York, you're dealing with a black swan.
Of course, New York is crushed.
We're dealing with New York got really, really crushed.
And ideally, now you want to sell in Florida at the high and buy in New York.
Of course.
At the low, because the problem we're having in Florida, a lot of people with such low inventory here is like you tell them, hey, I can get you insane number for your house.
And they're like, where do I go?
I have no place to go.
If you sell, what am I going to do?
What am I going to do?
Do you ever recommend that somebody?
This is, I don't know if we want to open up this can of worms on real estate, but sell your house, okay?
Get 10 million bucks, put it in your pocket, sick, go rent the place for a year or two.
Do you ever recommend that?
I do.
I do.
Like, cash out.
Cash out, relax, travel.
They don't like the rentals.
They just don't.
Like, if you're that wealthy, you're like, no, I need to buy a place.
No, they don't.
Most of my ultra-wealthy clients, like, if it's a few months here and there, they'll rent.
And if it's a beautiful home, of course, they're fine with that.
But in their mind, like, they are not renting.
They're not renting.
But New York, to go back to your question, which is a really important subject.
New York real estate is down because it's a black swan event and because people were afraid during the pandemic to be in these high rises and being around so many people and COVID restrictions were so extreme, rightfully so at that time, because New York was just a unique place.
So I think it's going to take a few years to recover because it's affected people on all different levels, right?
And it's affected how people think about New York real estate.
But knowing what New York is about, which is its extreme diversity and amazing people, culture, restaurants, hustle, everything.
Yeah, it's going to come back.
And now I have clients who will call me and say, hey, do you have something in New York that's a steal?
So a lot of them are wanting steals in New York as an investment because they're counting.
It's going to take two, three years for it to be in the middle of the year.
And you can get steals right now.
Are there steals?
Yeah.
So there are many steals in New York right now.
Okay, that's good to know.
So I just pulled up bank rate and I looked up to see housing heat index, which state real estate markets are doing the best and worst during coronavirus.
They rank all top five.
So top five.
Number one, you'd never guess it, Utah.
Okay?
Utah.
Wow.
Number one is Utah, believe it or not.
What's up with that?
It jumped up 10.7% in 12 months.
Then it's Montana.
Maybe you ought to consider Montana to be a good place for you.
Then it's Missouri.
Then it's Arizona.
Then it's Idaho.
Florida's not in the top five.
It's maybe number six, but it's not in the top five, is what we're looking at.
Then if you put bottom five, bottom five, check this out: 51, Hawaii.
Okay.
50, New York, then it's Louisiana, Illinois, Nevada.
Even Illinois got hit.
But New York 50th.
By the way, Hawaii homelessness was berserk.
Like, you couldn't even believe it.
Well, it's like the most expensive place to live.
It's not only the most expensive, it relies on tourism.
Exactly.
So New York doesn't necessarily rely on tourism.
New York is a business capital of the world, but you've got to keep the business there.
Absolutely.
You know, you got to keep the business there.
Sonata, you came, your story is you came from Bosnia.
Why don't you share with us briefly your story?
Well, we actually have a lot in common in that regard.
I lived through the war in Bosnia in 91, 92.
I was a teenager.
I was 13 years of age and saw more atrocities and horrific things than most people will see in their lifetime.
And I worked for the United Nations at the time and got a chance once in a lifetime, a chance to come to the United States to study.
And, you know, we were refugees during the war in Bosnia.
We lost absolutely everything.
I also lost my father.
And it was, you know, a pretty big deal for me to come to the United States because it paved the way to help all my family to come here.
Were you the first in your family to come to the United States?
Wow.
Yes, I was the first one.
I came with $200 in my pocket and a scholarship, which was pretty cool.
And worked really hard.
Ended up getting my undergrad degree, moved to New York, worked in healthcare venture capital, and then got an opportunity to work for Donald Trump.
So it was the most unusual experience in that, you know, I'm an immigrant.
I'm a woman, right?
Used to be a refugee, and coming to work in the big city was pretty awesome.
That's why I have such a soft spot for New York.
I love New York so much.
In that place, people welcome you with your differences, with what you have to contribute, right?
And after being there for about five years, six years, I decided they're meeting with Trump organizations.
Yes, yes.
So after being in New York with the Trump organization, with Trump International in particular, I decided it was time for me to have a little bit of an easier life because working, let's say, 80 hours a week is good for a few years when you're young.
That's the expectation.
That's the expectation.
80 hours a week.
Easy.
And after doing that for five years, you come to a point where you're like, okay, I need to relax a little.
So I moved with Blackstone when they bought the Boca Resort and moved here to Boca Raton.
And I love this little place.
And I used to get teased a lot by my New York friends, like Boca Raton, like seriously, it's such a sleepy town.
It's a sleepy town.
It was known at the time 13 years ago as the retirement community.
And it's so not that.
So if you move to Boca Raton, you're going to have to deal with that as well.
Yeah, no, I mean, that's what they told me when we were coming on here.
But honestly, we came here the way they described it was the best.
Say Miami, you got Palm Beach.
You can even go Jupiter if you want to.
Pace and speed of lifestyle.
More south, faster.
More up, you know, slower.
I like a little bit of pace, but not too much.
Boca is a good place to be in the middle.
Exactly.
Pacing.
So you're saying, so you work with Trump, obviously, directly.
You guys work very closely together.
Was he a pretty intense, high-standard guy himself?
He was.
And was he like one of those guys that's always on where he'd come in to work?
He was also working hard himself.
He wasn't just expecting you to work hard.
Was he also always working hard himself?
He was always working hard himself.
So, you know, we would start at like 7:30 or so, and I'd be there until 10:30, 11.
And we call him Mr. T.
So he would come in in the morning to see who's there, who's the first one in the office.
What time would he get in the office?
I don't know, 8 o'clock or something.
8 o'clock.
Step it up, Donald.
I've already been in the office for three hours, buddy.
Not you, Adam.
Not you.
Step it up, Don.
Stop it.
Not you.
Adam's a 9.30 guy.
After you do your yoga, Belton Yoga.
Yeah, you relax.
Well, what time did we start today?
At 7.30.
So how am I a 9.30 guy?
We started at 7.30.
Once a week, you're here at 7.30.
Twice a week.
What's it twice a week?
The podcast.
I got to give it to you.
Respect.
Every single day.
Which is just basic math.
So ever since you started working here, we got you coming here at 7.30.
And that's a big deal for Florida, Pat.
You know, that's a huge deal.
You know, I tell people from New York all the time, if you come down to Florida and you keep that New York mentality, that hustle, that you're going to kill the world.
Because everyone in Florida, I'm sleeping in.
I might go to the beach today.
I'm hungover.
I was on a yacht yesterday.
Well, you actually were on a yeah.
Yeah, that's why I was hungover yesterday.
That's what I'm saying.
Like yesterday was rough.
Now I'm back in it.
But you understand.
I totally get it.
Am I wrong on that or am I?
You are.
So let's go back to it.
So Trump was a hardworking guy who expected his people to also work hard.
Yes.
What did you learn from working?
Because when you work with somebody like that for five to six years, you're going to walk away picking up a lot of stuff.
What were some of the things you took away from working with them?
A few things.
But number one was I remember when I first got there in the office, there was a plaque that says start from the end.
And it took me a few seconds to understand what that truly means.
But he is always like, get to the point.
And he never had the time to listen how you got to a certain point.
It was just like, start from the end.
You know what disappointment?
So this is a recording they made because Adam will go and say some stuff and I'll say, what's your point?
And now we got a button.
Yeah, now we got a button for it.
So he would say, get to the point.
Get to the point.
And it trains you how to think differently.
And that's what happened to me.
I immediately get to the point.
And then it would be like, what's your suggestion?
Because coming with problems to him was not optimal.
Come with what's your point?
And what do you suggest?
Another thing that I learned is like, figure it out, which is if you're tasked with discerning, for me, it was Trump International.
I worked with a company called Bayrock.
If you were tasked with figuring out who's going to be your target market for Trump, so how do you get highest price per square foot?
And everything had to be the highest, the best, you know, the most glamorous and everything.
So you would go into this process of what's it going to take.
And the standards were so high that you knew if you just come up with a little report and he hated reports, you would have to tell him, you know, it's the Russians who will want to pay the highest price per square foot.
Why?
Not because of the location, but because of the brand.
This is what you need to do with the brand.
So it was really interesting for me at least, coming from venture capital to real estate development and real estate marketing in particular, how to understand to maximize the value of a brand to achieve maximum price per square foot.
Interesting.
And the other thing was, which I think translated subsequently to his political arena, was know your people, know your audience.
And if you tried to target very specific audience who already loved the brand, you just needed to focus on them.
You didn't have to worry about trying to sell to someone else.
So specific niche, work on a niche that you had.
Very specific.
Riches and the niches, you know, the whole.
Okay.
Yeah.
So those were like some of the big, big lessons.
And the other one was always be on.
You know, I used to work from whenever I woke up, didn't even have time to train.
You get ready, you get to the office, you work.
You go to grab a bite to eat at like six o'clock.
And oftentimes he would pop in at like 10.30 to the office to see who's still there at night.
And I remember, I remember one night in particular, I was really tired.
I was working on a project in Phoenix.
So I had taken the red eye and I was at the office.
It was like 10 o'clock.
I was exhausted and, you know, just kind of, okay, let me just finish this.
And he came by the office and we're all like, okay.
He's like, you don't have makeup.
Like, why do you look so tired?
And I'm like, well, I've been, you know, working hard.
He's like, get it together, finish, and go home.
Wow.
So like disrespectfully or?
No, it wasn't even disrespectful.
It was like just an observation.
I didn't take it disrespectfully, but it was like, you always had to be on.
Well, think about it.
Think about it.
So just so you know, he got his work ethic and his hustle from his dad, but he got his swag from his mom.
His mom was always on, and his mom always had the expectation that you got it, like the suave, you know, the swagger was a mom thing.
I don't know if you've seen his mom's hair, you know, hairdo, what it looked like.
She had like a buffant.
Yeah, like pretty much.
So if you look at it, well, think about it.
Have you ever seen him not look put together?
Yes.
When?
There's a lot of photos of him looking sloppy.
When?
When have you seen him?
Sloppy?
Sloppy dog?
When have you seen him being sloppy?
You don't see it.
If there is photos, it's because there's billions of photos.
But the guy is pretty much suited and voted.
You got a tan and did you ever see him negotiate or no?
Did you ever actually witness him negotiating?
Yes.
What was his style?
The same what you've seen in the White House.
I mean, he's really like, just get it done.
He doesn't care how you get it done.
Very intimidating.
Like, I honestly, I've never seen him smile during those five years.
So that's, you know, he's very, very serious, very intimidating.
And he would listen, but he would only listen to people he trusts.
So people who are in his inner circle, including his children.
Got it.
And did the people that were in his inner circle, did they stay there for a long time or would they churn and burn kind of like politics?
No, not just.
Because on the business side, they would stay with him for a long time.
On the business side, from his assistants to people who worked for him were there for decades.
Got it.
Last question for you about him, driving.
How did he drive people?
Like, you know, there's different ways people drive their teammates, their staff, their salespeople.
What was his style?
I would say fear-based in a way.
Yes, because he would have really high expectations.
So if you fall benefit whatever that high standard is, it's like you don't belong there.
So not as many carrots in that, you know, he thought that people should pay him to work for him in a way.
So many people stay there for quite a long time because once you're in that inner circle, there is the, you know, material and financial benefit.
Do people make money working with them?
Like, if you stay with them long term, you're going to make money?
Yes.
So you have to get through a certain threshold and a certain point in order to make money.
So I don't think it's just that the environment was really stressful.
It was very competitive.
But I think I learned a lot from it.
And for me, like, I'm not afraid.
I lived through a war.
So unless someone has a gun to my head, I'm not afraid of you.
Do you kind of need to have that thick skin to even be in that organization?
Absolutely.
Like, if you're not ready for criticism or to work hard, like that's not the place you should be.
Correct.
Got it.
Correct.
Question.
Seems like you had a beneficial experience.
There were some pros and cons, and you worked hard, but overall it was a net positive, right?
And you've worked pretty closely with him.
I mean, you're saying you'd be in the office working at 10 p.m. and he'd show up and you interacted with him.
But you're also an immigrant.
You know, you live in New York City.
Like, you have clearly a love for diversity and inclusion and all that stuff.
How much, how shocking was it when you saw the switch from businessman Donald Trump to politician Donald Trump?
You're like, oh, I can see that.
Or you're like, whoa, I don't even recognize this guy.
Where'd you go with that?
That's a really great question because as someone who's seen the business persona for all that time, when I saw the political persona, I was not shocked at all.
And I actually knew how he is and that he would polarize the country.
That was very obvious because he has a very strong, very clear set of values, what's important to him and how he is and how he thinks.
So if you know how he thinks, you know how he's going to act in whatever arena he's in.
So it was really difficult for me in that, yes, my experience working there was a net positive.
But as an immigrant, as a woman, it was really tough for me to see some of the statements, not some, many statements that he's made and even what's happened in the capital.
But it's not shocking to me.
Because he steers the pot.
He likes that.
He enjoys that.
I'm not surprised either.
I mean, you just watch him at Apprentice.
He steers the pot.
His entire career is about steering the pot.
Like, what do you expect him to do?
He's going to continue steering the pod.
But, you know, kudos to you for your story to go from Bosnia to come to New York to work for Trump organization five to six years to come over here after your father passed, you've experienced all this different mess and you come and you see what's going on with America right now.
Sonara, how much do you love America?
I'm curious.
I can answer that from mine, but I want to hear from you.
How much do you love America from your perspective?
I love it.
What do you love about it?
What do you love about it?
I love the freedom.
I love the freedom of speech.
I love the fact that you can be an immigrant.
You can be a woman.
You can speak with an accent but not think with one and make it in this country.
You can be an entrepreneur.
I love that.
What does that mean?
Speak with an accent but not think with one.
I say that because I've never heard that before.
You know, you get underestimated when you speak with an accent.
That's at least what I've experienced.
And I joke about it, and I heard that from a good friend of mine who's Cuban.
And I really took that on.
It means that don't underestimate me.
I like it.
There's people here with an accent.
And a third one that can do any accent.
Her and I have an accent.
We give you an accent.
Do a German accent for us.
You guys are crazy, I tell you.
Do you want me to do accents?
But don't forget we also have other accent boy here.
That's a Bruno accent.
Yeah, that's what my gay German Bruno thing going on.
Kai actually speaks with a thick Norwegian accent, but he fakes it because he wants to.
Kai, let me hear some Norwegian.
Oh, my gosh.
Some Norwegian or a Norwegian accent?
All the above.
Give the accent.
Give the accent.
I is from Norway.
I moved to Florida and now I live here.
Well, you can do it.
Good for you.
Not bad.
No, that's how they speak.
No, no, that's.
I think that's if Bruno were from Norway.
Yes, she just called you out, bro.
By the way, Kai.
Kai, shout out to Kai.
He's talent.
He's behind the scenes.
So since we're on the topic, let's just wrap this up since we're on the topic because I'm curious.
By the way, somebody's asking a question here.
Danielle Astasio, I'm going to get to your question here.
Matter of fact, I'll just ask her right now.
Her advice to a Florida realtor and her favorite books for realtors.
Wow.
Advice to Florida realtors is give it your all.
It's a crazy time.
And I think just work really, really hard right now and be prepared.
Save all your money because we don't know how long this is going to last.
Let me hear you say save that money.
Save that money.
No, seriously.
So work because you don't know how long this is going to last.
Yeah, you know, I think that's very good counsel.
This may not last forever.
This is very good counsel.
So save like you've never saved before in today's economy.
Absolutely.
Some people love to spend when the money is there, but I just say save all your money.
Be very, very careful how you plan for your future because nothing lasts forever.
It's crazy.
I'm buying a house right now and I know I'm not buying at the best market.
And I know that.
What does that feel like knowing that you're buying at the top of the market?
But I know, like we just had a conversation right off camera about whether you buy structure, you buy land, all this other stuff.
And we have a good team.
I think we're pretty clear on what we're looking for.
I think everybody's managing expectations well.
And we will see what's going to be taken.
Let me ask Sonata one last question just before we're going to move on.
No, no, no, and just on real estate in general.
So take off your $25 million hat and put back on your $700,000 hat, right?
You said that's okay.
Absolutely.
So what advice do you have for our audience who are, you know, maybe they're buying a first-time home and maybe they're not in Miami.
Maybe they're anywhere.
Just, you know, we talked about the list.
Who should be buying a place right now?
And who should be like, look, maybe you're renting.
Like, give advice to the half a million dollar buyer, million dollar buyer, real quick, not the $25 million buyer.
Absolutely.
That's a really good question in that, you know, most people feel that real estate is their highest asset, right?
Like the highest-valued asset.
So when you're making that big decision, it's a very emotional decision, not just financial.
I would say be logical, not as emotional about your purchase.
Look for off-market opportunities.
That's a big one because most people just look what's on the market right now.
Use your resources, your connections, your people you know to look for things that are not even on the market because there are, you know, things change.
Unfortunately, in our business, you know, divorce is one of the major reasons for people to want to change their home situation.
So I would say, regardless of the price range, but $700,000, definitely finance because the rates are so low.
Look for good opportunities knowing that it's about the value.
So if you decide to sell in three, five, seven, or ten years, that you're going to be able to sell your property and not regret your decision.
When you say three, five, seven years, is there a certain amount of time that if you buy a house, you're not selling for the next X amount of years?
Is there a sort of a rule of thumb?
Most people, believe it or not, keep it for about seven years.
That's the average.
But a lot of people come and tell me, oh, this is my forever home.
I'm going to put a fortune into it.
And I'm like, don't do that because most forever homes are not forever.
Don't get too emotional about that.
Stay logical.
I couldn't.
So nine homes in 11 years.
Like, if you think about how many years ago.
That's how many homes you've lived in.
First of all, it's crazy.
Like, whatever we buy next, I already know.
It's not like, she's listening right now.
Babe, I just want you to spot another for a month.
Be braced for impact because something's going to happen next five, 10 years that we're going to say, let's go look at XYZ.
But let's talk about CPAC, Trump's speech.
And I'm not talking about Cruz or any of the other guys.
Matt Gates, I'm specifically focusing on Trump's speech.
What was your biggest takeaway from what he said at the CPAC?
Curious.
This is the first time he came out.
So why don't you take the lead?
So obviously, he did his greatest hits.
You know, Joe Biden's the worst president we've ever seen in the first month.
And the radical left.
And by the way, the country seems to be doing okay for the last month or two since Biden's like the whole, like, the country's going to fall apart and the communists are taking over.
I've pretty much enjoyed life for the last 30, 60 days.
Sort of stress-free.
There was a little insurrection at the Capitol, but who's paying attention to that?
But the thing that stuck out to me the most wasn't so much the greatest hits, wasn't the talking about how horrible Sleepy Joe is.
It's the specific singling out of any Republican who dared to cross him.
Like if you didn't pray to the golden calf of Donald Trump, he came after you.
Liz Cheney, the guy in, he's very outspoken.
Adam, someone helped me out here.
Adam, he's in Chicago.
Congressman, Adam Kenowitz, I forget his last name.
Kyle, you got a name for me?
Adam Sumpton.
Chicago Congressman, Illinois Congressman, awesome guy.
All those guys, he's specifically saying, if you voted not lock and step with Trump and you voted to impeach him or did anything, he is coming after you.
Yeah, Adam Kinzinger.
Sorry, I knew it was Adam Kaye.
Who doesn't do that, though?
I'm curious.
Like, you tell me what politician or president doesn't come after the person.
But doesn't call them out by name and singles them out.
And, you know.
So this guy at least is being truthful about who.
So the mistake on his is he publicly shares his strategy.
I don't, I don't, but I just want you to know in the world, and this is not an, I'll take shots at the areas that he doesn't, but you name me one politician that's not going to remember that.
You tell me Obama wouldn't want to come back after Trump to make sure he didn't get reelected?
You mean to tell me a Bush didn't go come back after you?
You mean to tell me none of those guys?
I see your point.
I think you're right.
Clearly, that's in their mind.
But what we are witnessing is the oral vindictiveness of this man.
Like, I'm not saying behind closed doors.
Buddy, that's positive.
Well, I agree.
The James Baker book, the James Baker book.
I don't know if you know who James Baker is, James Baker.
He's a long time Republican strategist.
He's the genius behind the genius.
He was so logical, right?
He was not the emotional guy.
He was a logical guy.
Let me tell you everything when you go into politics.
If you don't know how to play dirty, you ever watch these guys, you're like, you know, what a sweet man Mike Huckabee is.
Like, you know, it's a sweet man.
You know, look, his daughter could.
Has anyone ever said that?
Yeah, he's a sweet man.
How come he can't, how come he didn't run for?
How come he couldn't win it?
You look at some of these other, Ben Carson, what a sweetheart of a man.
Okay.
How come he didn't win?
George W. Bush, sweetheart.
No, George Oberjer's not a sweetheart.
He's trained by Prescott, grandfather, who was a senator, and he was trained by father CIA.
Listen, there's training when you have those kinds of people.
There's low-key.
What I'm trying to tell you is there's levels to the game.
The lower level you are, the more peaceful sweet it is.
The higher you go, you realize how dirty of a game it is.
And if you show any kind of weakness, look, flip it.
If Trump doesn't come out strong, what do you think they're going to do to him for the rest of his life?
If Trump comes out and is quiet like a Nixon, what do they do for the rest of his life?
I mean, they're going to come after him regardless for everything he's done.
So I mean, Trump is who he is.
It's baked in the cake.
He ain't changing.
Here's my prediction: my prediction.
The Donald Trump of 2015, 2016 is officially gone.
He is no, like his highest approval ratings ever never reached 50%.
He is now baked in the cake, the 30% of the country or, you know, the GOP is fractured.
We talked about the Democrats having issues with the socialists on the left, the moderates.
It is a clear fracture in the Republican Party.
You're either with Trump or against him.
If you're just a normal conservative, you know, George Will, Mitt Romney, George Bush-type Republican, and there's tens of millions of people like that, you're on one side of the aisle.
If you're a MAGA Trump, you know, that whole vibe, you're with Trump.
Like you, if Trump said, I'm starting my own party, which by the way, he said he wouldn't do.
But if he said, I'm starting my own party, they're going with it.
But he didn't say I'm starting my own party.
So I would never do that.
So there's a major fracture in the GOP.
And what we've learned in 2020, in this election, unless you coalesce and come together as a party, as a unit, as a full-on, just cohesive unit, you're not winning a general election.
Sorry, you could play to your base all you want, buddy.
You ain't winning the general election.
So keep doing that.
Keep fracturalizing the Adam Kinzingers and the Liz Cheneys of the world and the Lisa Murkowski's and the Susan Collins.
Keep going after them.
Clear division in the GOP, and I don't think he has any shot of winning the actual presidency if he does run again in 2024.
But he'll clearly be the nominee if he wants that.
He'll clearly be the nominee.
Clearly be the nominee.
Nobody gets his ass kicked even by a dementia sleepy Joe.
That's my prediction.
What are your thoughts on CPAC?
On to you, though.
I know.
But yeah, he's lost all momentum from bringing the country together.
You gotta think about it.
I thought it was expected.
So knowing his personality, he's very vindictive and he is very firm in how he thinks things should be.
And in this, you're either for him or you're against him.
I know that.
And I think there is a huge majority of the Republican base that is exactly what you're talking about.
It's much more mainstream, if you will, and more liberal in certain ways that I think is going to be left out.
But if he's still interested in running, which I think he will be in four years, I do believe he's going to run again.
And a lot of people who were upset about what happened during the Capitol insurrection will have to decide which way they want to go.
Because there are so many Republicans who voted for Donald Trump, not because they love or support what he stands for, but because they want to vote Republican for lower taxes and, you know, different lifestyle, right?
Less regulation.
I think he's going to run.
I think he's going to continue to do exactly what you talked about.
And, you know, you asked me what I love about this country.
It's freedom of speech.
He's shown some authoritarian traits that make it more uncomfortable for people like Liz Cheney to say exactly what she wants to say.
So that's the part that I don't like because I grew up in a socialist country where you can't speak your mind.
I think in this country, we all came seeking freedom of speech.
So with him, it's going to be much more difficult and I think polarized as we go forward.
But I do believe he's going to run.
I think I agree with you.
I clearly think he's the favorite.
And if you chose to be the run in 2024, I think what he's going to do is he's going to just keep doing what Donald does and just wait until the midterms.
And what he'll do is sort of dangle the Trump card, for lack of a better term, over anyone running in the midterms.
And if you were with him, he will go all in with you.
And if you were against him, he will, like a bat out of hell, come at you.
For the Liz Cheneys of the world and the Susan Collins of the Murkowskis and anyone who voted against him, he will do his damnedest to make sure they are not elected.
And the guy Kinzinger actually was on the news.
I apologize, I forgot his name, Adam Kinzinger.
He said, listen, in my district, I won 65% of the vote.
And he's a Republican.
Donald won 52%.
So the math's on my side.
And that's something that...
Stop.
What do you mean?
Oh, my gosh.
District against nation.
I mean, stop.
So that's who these are.
He's a congressman.
He has to win his district.
I fully get that.
Okay, this is bigger than what everything that's okay.
So let me ask you this question here.
What feeling do you get when you hear Nancy Pelosi speaking?
An annoying grandma.
Okay, fair enough.
Okay, would you agree with that, Paul?
I don't want to offend Paul because I know he's a diehard.
He's a big Pelosi fan.
He's from California.
Yeah, so what feeling do you get when you hear Hillary Clinton speaking?
Smart robot.
Smart robot.
Like she just repeats.
She's just kind of doing, you know, what feeling do you get when Barack Obama speaks?
Swaggy.
100%.
Swaggy.
Swaggy.
I love watching his energy.
Oh, my gosh.
When I watch his interview with Leno or Letterman or you just are like, man, cool, baby.
Cool, right?
Okay.
What do you think about when you hear Reagan speaking?
American icon.
American icon.
But, you know, you look at him, you're like, you know, I like this guy.
Comedy, fun, all that.
Okay.
What feeling do you get when you get Joe Biden speaking?
Dementia slash empathy.
Really?
He's a little slow, but he cares.
You can tell he cares.
He's got a big heart.
Cool.
Slow brain.
That's how you feel when you hear Joe Biden.
Okay.
What feeling do you get when you get Trump speaking?
Nails on a chalkboard.
Okay.
Now watch this.
That's for you.
Yeah.
And about 60% of the country.
No, no, but wait, wait where I'm going with this.
I'm with you.
I'm with you.
It's 75 million people vote.
If you underestimate this guy, you're going to experience exactly what you experienced in 2015, 2016, okay?
So now flip this.
What do Hillary Clinton lovers feel when they hear Hillary Clinton speak?
Are there really actual Hillary Clinton lovers?
100%.
Just go to Connecticut.
Just go there and you'd see she's such a sweetheart.
You don't remember when she lost how bad people were crying when she lost it?
It wasn't so much that she lost.
It was that Donald Trump became the mission.
No, that was their hero.
Go talk to somebody who loves, you know, or who hates Barack Obama.
When Barack Obama speaks, what do they say?
He's a terrorist.
He's not even an American.
But they'll say he's paralyzed.
I want to see his birthday.
He's pompous.
He's arrogant.
He's this, he's that, right?
But the part you have to think about is you cannot, because I think this is going to get to one area.
This is the one area it's going to, it's only one question we have to ask.
It's only one question we have to ask.
Okay, so it's not about whether you agree with this guy's policies or not.
Everything he said was the same thing, except for one thing.
Except for one thing.
One of the things he said, he's never talked about before.
He said, are you noticing what Joe Biden is trying to do to women?
Did you notice the recent thing he signed where transvestites can compete now in any kind of what's going to happen to women's sports?
Why are you going to play tennis?
Why are you going to play basketball?
Why are you going to do this?
So that was a new thing he threw in.
By the way, it's so controversial that's similar to what he did five years ago when he said, what?
Get him out of here.
All they're saying is.
So now people, oh my gosh, we can't even talk about this.
No, no, he's brilliant in his marketing and his strategy.
So why would he say something like that?
That is a part and a base on the other side.
I can say, well, he's right.
Okay, he's right.
And that's the Democrats always been what?
Protecting all, you know, we're party for the women.
So that's kind of going to backfire there because, you know, he knows how to play the divisive game just as good as these guys.
He knows who knows how to play the divisive.
Well, first of all, there's no doubt in that.
Just so you know, his enemies are dirtier than he is.
Just so you know, his opponents are 10 times dirtier than he is, but they're private.
He's public.
Anytime a person publicly shares their strategies, it doesn't mean they're the dirtier one.
The private one is the one that doesn't say anything, but behind closed doors is like, let me see how bad I'm going to make your life a living kill.
So he's not the dirty person.
Do you agree with his public strategy of airing the green?
He didn't say I agree.
You just heard a woman that worked with her for a high-ranking VP work with them for six years, explain to you how he is.
Nothing has changed for this guy to run the way he runs things.
I mean, I can already see how he runs the sales meetings.
I can already visualize how he would drive his salespeople.
This is the point I'm trying to get to you.
The only question we have to answer is the following.
The only question we have to answer is the following.
Can he win without Twitter, Facebook, and YouTube?
That's it.
If he can, he's going to win.
If he cannot, he ain't going to win.
It's that simple.
By the way, is he permanently banned?
He's permanently banned from Twitter.
YouTube, he's safe, but when you do a YouTube interview with him, and if he even comments on saying, you know, you guys know this was a rigged election.
You guys know I won the election.
Fraud.
YouTube is able to take that video down because not just that.
They're able to take the video down.
All the way.
Well, YouTube said anybody that talks about election fraud, they're taking those videos down.
YouTube made that announcement.
So he can't go and say, you know, well, let me tell you something.
You know, they really stole this from us, et cetera, et cetera.
Look how much hours, $75 million.
So the question we all have to answer is not even a political question.
I don't care how you feel about his, you know, the wall 500 miles.
The only question we all have to answer is: can this guy win without Twitter, social media?
So if you're watching this, I'm curious.
If you're watching this, right now we have 441 thumbs up.
We have five thumbs down.
Okay.
So 441 to five thumbs down.
Press thumbs up if you think he can win without Twitter, Facebook, and YouTube.
Press thumbs down if you don't think he can win without Twitter, Facebook, YouTube.
I'm curious to know what people are going to say.
But what do you think?
You hit the nail on the head.
I got to give you kudos for injecting the actual logical, non-emotional question here at hand.
Because that's exactly the scenario that we should be asking: is can he win without having big tech by his side or at least allowing him to vocalize his thoughts?
Without Twitter, there is no Donald Trump presidency.
Who was it that you interviewed the other day, Oliver North?
He said, I wish that Trump would put down the damn phone, something to that effect.
Without Twitter, he's gonna, and without, you know, a certain other extent, I don't know if Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, if they're all banning him from the platform, he has two options, that he's gonna either need to go with the mainstream media, which clearly they're not a fan, or he'll need to speak into the echo chamber, that is Newsmax, Parlor, OAN, and he's just gonna be playing to his base.
And one thing we've known about the sales game or politics is you need to be able to what?
Convert.
And if you're just playing to your 30% or 40%, good luck out there, Haas.
You need to get to at least 51%.
So to answer your question specifically, what's your point?
No chance without big tech eyes.
Okay.
Do you guys agree?
No chance he wins without big tech.
Paul, do you agree?
Without big tech, yeah, he needs to convert people.
Eric, can he win without Twitter, Facebook, YouTube?
Definitely not.
And I think even with it, it's going to be hard for him to win.
Okay, so that's interesting.
And that's a Trump guy right there.
Yeah, and that's a Marine guy saying what he said.
Okay, Kai, can he win without Twitter, Facebook, YouTube?
I think it'd be challenging, especially considering his track record.
He's not an unknown.
There's a lot of people that were initially thought, hey, let's give him the benefit of the doubt in the first time around.
But now, without that and also without tech, I see it as very hard for him to come out, Melinda.
I'm with the Marine.
Okay.
With or without.
It's with or without because he just lost the support of so many mainstream Republicans, so many women, that this hardcore rhetoric, I don't think it's going to get him far because I feel talking to so many clients and friends, you know, as Republicans, a lot of them don't want to be associated with proud boys, with such extremist groups.
And that's sort of the main support group now for Trump.
Yeah, so here's where I'm going with this.
If you look at the Republican Party like a sports team right now, and they have to draft somebody, right?
Because that's what you're looking at right now.
Essentially, you're looking for a top draft pick to build your team around.
And you've got to have one person.
You're looking for LeBron James.
You're looking for a person to build a team around, not a talent.
Like you can't build around Carmel and win a championship.
You can't build around certain people, but you can build around LeBron.
You can build around Kobe.
You can build around certain players, right?
If I'm in that room and it's the 20 big decision makers of the RNC Republican Party, if you don't have a solution for Twitter, Facebook, YouTube, you better start putting it on somebody else.
And by the way, that includes CPAC.
That includes a lot of, if you don't have another platform where this guy can coach, because we're, so imagine he wants to say something.
Who does he call?
Like, you know, when you want to make an announcement, what do you say?
Hey, I'm doing a, you know, get all the media out here.
Okay, cool.
Everybody's in front of you.
40 cameras.
So here's what we're going to do.
I noticed earlier today what happened in New York.
I think it's a travesty with Cuomo, the governor.
It's time to impeach.
Okay, you need that.
Who's he going to call?
AON?
Is he going to call news?
Who's he going to call?
Fox.
There is no right.
Who's he going to?
No, you can't even call Fox.
Fox is not even going that direction.
Fox is also kind of going more center right.
Fox is now going far right.
I mean, Tucker's staying there, Hannah.
But not everybody's staying there.
The opinion people will, but not the news people and Fox.
But it's not an audience to convert.
He converted people on Twitter, Facebook, YouTube.
So if the RNC gets emotionally closed behind closed doors by Trump, but they don't have a solution for another platform for him to speak, you just have to be thinking about it.
Is it somebody for us to build around or not?
So I don't know.
I think when he gives a speech and you're listening to him, you're like, this is exactly the speech that converted a lot of people, inspired a lot of people that wanted to do something with you good.
Now, right after you gave that speech, what would you do?
40 tweets on Twitter.
He can't do that right now.
I think the Republicans have clearly two strategies.
They can embrace Donald Trump and play to their base.
And the people that love Trump and love everything you're about, they are gung-ho.
They love him, love him, love him.
His approval ratings are ridiculous.
Or they can try to convert people and put their money behind someone like a Nikki Haley who a Democrat would vote for.
Let me say that again.
A Democrat would vote for a Nikki Haley.
Would you vote for Pence?
I would not vote for Pence.
You wouldn't vote for Pence?
No, I like the, you know, he's just, he's just vanilla, the most vanilla, vanilla of the vanilla vanilla I've ever vanilla.
If he's vanilla, what is Biden?
I mean, what do you think?
Vanilla, he's got to leave some rocky road in there a little bit, like some loose tracks.
No, no, no.
No, there's just too.
You're talking about converting.
Yeah.
As someone who votes typically Democrat, I'd vote for a Nikki Haley.
Nikki Haley concerns.
I'm coming out and saying a Democrat would consider doing that.
If you want to win 50% and not just play to your 30% base, you've got to have someone like that.
I think they have to.
If you want to have the MAGA crowd, good luck with Trump, y'all.
It's not even the MAGA crowd.
I'm not even worried about the MAGA crowd.
I'm worried about you having a platform.
I'm not worried about the MAGA crowd.
I'm worried about, are you going to be able to get in front of the big screen in front of these things that you need?
Can you get in front of these things and have tens of millions of people here?
If you don't, how are you going to influence people?
You're not going to be able to.
So, you know, the whole challenge with libertarian, well, how come nobody's paying attention to the libertarian community?
Libertarians have a great argument.
Libertarians...
Who was that, by the way?
Well, libertarians have a great argument.
They have a great point.
They have a great case.
How come nobody converts but 2-3% because they can't get here?
Yeah.
But he was that accent.
He did a good accent.
He wasn't.
Is that like a great, great storyline?
Great storyline.
Terrible storytellers.
Right.
Joe Jorgensen.
Horrible is that.
Oh, my gosh.
Terrible market.
You know who Joe Jorgensen is?
No.
There's a reason.
He'd vote for Joe Jorgensen.
That's not the point.
The point is, that's the point.
Yeah, exactly.
That is the point.
She was the leading candidate in the last presidential election for libertarians.
And you, as a woman, you probably think Joe's a man.
I did.
That's the point.
It's a woman.
It's Joe.
Joe is a woman.
And she would probably identify with a lot of her principles.
Philosophy's wife, for sure.
You never heard of freedom.
But the point is, if you don't get that, forget about it.
I don't care how amazing.
Power up the media.
You need it.
And he knows how to get it, but if he doesn't get it now with social, it's a different ballgame today.
You got to be able to get me to hear you out here.
If you don't have this, it's going to be a challenge.
Okay, let's talk about Bank of Walmart.
You guys okay with that?
Let's talk about Bank of Walmart.
So why Walmart could become a serious player in banking?
As Walmart looks to launch a fintech startup, the retailer is turning to Wall Street veterans to help into moving into the banking world.
They picked up two senior bankers from Goldman Sachs, Omer Ismail, the head of Goldman Sachs Consumer Bank, and David Stark, one of his top lieutenants, to help lead the retailer's new fintech startup.
I don't think in here it talks about markets, but we'll get into that here in a minute.
Walmart announced earlier this year that it was partnering with Rivet Capital, the firm backing fintech startups such as Robinhood to offer financial products for customers and employees.
Customers have made it very clear they want to move more from us in the financial services arena.
President and CEO of Walmart U.S. John Fierner said in a statement, Walmart's current financial service offering include the Walmart Capital One credit card, the prepaid Walmart money card, and the ability for people to cash checks in stores.
They're saying if Walmart goes into the banking business, they immediately become one of the biggest if they go into that world.
Thoughts?
I think it's a very smart strategy on their behalf.
They are, they've managed to become such an important global player as it relates to not just retail, pharmacy, you name it.
Walmart just has figured it out.
And I think it's very wise for them because if people are going there anyway, most of America shops at Walmart, right?
I mean, that's how it is.
I think it's a really important place for them.
And I know the company Ribbit Capital, the venture capital firm, they invest a lot in cryptocurrency and like really alternative fintech startups.
And for them to partner up with Walmart, I think it's baller.
Baller.
I like that term.
I think so's well.
Here's the question, Sonata.
When's the last time you, the luxury real estate guru, shopped at Walmart?
I don't know, six years ago.
You're not going to find Solana at Walmart.
I'll go to Target.
Oh, Fancé.
You're more target than your Walmart.
Yeah.
Okay.
So you will not go to Walmart.
That is the fancier term.
Well, let me tell you my little experience with Walmart.
Where was I this past Sunday now that I'm back here in South Florida?
Where was I?
Is anyone who saw my Instagram Isle 7?
No, I was not.
I was on a boat.
I was on a yacht.
Shout out to my best friend, Keith Mannon, his wife, Evelyn Mannon.
It was her birthday.
We had a great time.
That was my Sunday in Miami.
Kai, where did I go every Sunday when I was in Addison, Texas?
You went to Walmart off of Beltline.
Walmart Sundays.
There was nothing else to do.
I mean, I was just, I had my Walmart Sundays.
So, and part of it was a two-prong approach here.
If you live in Miami Beach or downtown Miami, there's not a Walmart for miles nowhere.
So when I moved into, thank you for your, by the way, this guy got me my apartment and he said, go check out the VV ⁇ M over there.
And you make that recommendation right next to the yard house.
Thank you.
I don't know if you guys were there to witness this.
The day we announced we're moving to Florida, you were devastated.
You were devastating.
No, not back to Miami.
Let me say the Walmart and Beltline.
It's a very tough conversation.
Tough, tough.
But I'd go to this Walmart and I was shocked by how cheap, yeah, inexpensive things were.
Shocked.
I mean, you're talking about in Florida, you know, you shop at Publix.
It's, you know, pretty standard.
Go to Whole Foods or Trader Joe's.
Things are a little pricier there.
Like, I felt like they were giving things away at Walmart.
Okay.
And slowly but surely, I started getting indoctrinated to this Walmart lifestyle.
And damn, you know, things are very cheap.
So then I started seeing the types of people that are shopping at Walmart.
So it's very interesting to back to this story.
Walmart's current financial service offerings include the Walmart Capital One credit card, a prepaid Walmart money card, and the ability for people to do cash checks in stores.
These are not types of people who are buying $25 million houses.
These are types of people that maybe make $25,000 a year.
So, you know, you're playing like Trump plays to his base.
They are going after low-income or even middle-income Americans.
And what we realized, certainly since the pandemic, is the K-shaped economy.
The rich are getting richer.
They're gobbling up $20 million houses like it's gumballs.
But the rest of America, you know, the rest of America has suffered tremendously.
Has suffered tremendously on the bottom half of the K-shaped economy.
So where are they getting their financial services from?
A lot of them are already going to Walmart.
They're cashing their checks.
They're doing, you know, their prepaid cards.
So if Walmart wants to play to their base, you know, the 25% of Americans who have no financial education, they have no savings, they have zero credit, they've got just financially a mess, you know, and a part of my brand is helping people like this get smarter.
I think that they can be a player in the low-income, middle-income American campaign.
Well, what does financial player service do?
Does player mean top five, top three?
Can they compete at the top?
What does player mean to you?
Yeah, I mean, look, you know, FTM, follow the money.
So they're going to need the law of large numbers to compete.
They're going to need millions and millions and millions of low-income Americans to say, all right, I'm done with Bank of America.
I'm done with Chase.
You know, Wells Fargo screwed me over one too many times.
I'm a Walmart guy now.
I'm a Walmart gal.
And, you know, they're going to need.
Would you consider yourself a Walmart?
No.
But wait a minute.
Actually, a serious question.
Your whole spiel about you go to Walmart a lot kind of hurt your game a little bit.
Never bring that up.
No, no, no.
I'm very hopeful you don't go on a date and you say, hey, Mary, good to meet you.
First time.
By the way, I was at Walmart the other day.
At least he'll know that they like him.
I will take them to Walmart and see how their selective process is.
I will take them on a date to Walmart.
High-end.
Take any cereal you want.
Anything you want, baby.
I got you.
We're going to Walmart.
Al7 is beautiful this time of year.
That's true.
Hi, Roller.
So Paul's going to say something about Walmart.
But before you do, I'm going to ask you to ask you to ask you.
You were going to make a point.
You're going to make a point.
The question I was going to ask you is this.
Walmart opens up the banking set.
Would you open up an account with them?
0% chance.
0%?
Less than 0%.
Yeah, I'm not banking at Walmart.
Like, no.
Fine.
Not a good look.
By the way, keep this piece and record it.
Shopping?
Watching your series with avocados.
I got my Walmart black card, y'all.
Go ahead.
Go ahead, Paul.
I think a big part of where they can succeed in this arena is the bank culture and the bank industry themselves.
They have a culture, right?
It's at 8 to 5, and they're not open past 5 o'clock.
If Walmart offers, because one of their big benefits is doing time, because even when I was driving from here to Texas, I needed a couple things, and I'm like, where's a Walmart at?
And I know I can count on them.
That's a good point.
So if they can do that same thing in the banking industry and be like, hey, I need to go to the bank at 9 o'clock at night.
I'll be.
Let me ask you.
Let me ask you.
Paul E.
Yeah.
Would you change?
Who's your bank right now?
It's a Southern Commissioner.
Don't say it.
People may go try to get it.
When you start banking at Walmart, you.
If they offer what I just said, if there are more convenient, because I don't go to the bank anymore, but if I need an app, I need an app.
You would bank at Walmart.
I would bank at Walmart.
Boom.
You don't go to the bank anymore.
No.
What do you mean?
Because everything you do is online.
Everything's online.
My bank's in California.
Okay, fair enough.
So here's the follow-up question for you.
A couple things to be thinking about.
Do you know 97% of America lives within 10 miles of a Walmart?
Let me say this one more time.
97% of America lives within 10 miles of a Walmart.
Goes back to your point.
Okay.
Do you know how many people per year walk through Walmart?
If you walked in 19 times, you don't count as 19 times.
How many individual?
Yeah.
200 million.
I was going to say somewhere around a couple hundred.
200 million walk.
But not Sonata.
She hasn't been there in seven years.
Well, maybe they're going to get her business now.
But watch.
Sonata, would you consider banking?
If she hears about here, hear me out for a second.
Hear me out for a second.
So, first of all, what is Robinhood?
Robinhood is for what?
Low-income and middle America.
That's what they're targeting.
Great.
Who's Goldman Sachs?
When you think about Goldman Sachs, what do you think about high-end, high-income crop?
You need 10 million to get in.
If you don't have 10 million, by the way, they only have 400 advisors.
Morgan Merrill have 13,000.
They only have 400.
And they have 400 to say, we don't need 13,000.
We only have 400 because we get the cream of the crop.
Cornell University, Penn, you know, Wharton.
Those are the kind of guys that we get that come to us, okay?
Great.
But the two guys they recruited, I don't know if you've looked into who these two guys are.
The two guys that were recruited, Omar Ishmael, was the head of Goldman Consumer Bank.
That's what you just read, that they say, go, and here, David Stark, partner at Goldman.
David is the right-hand guy to Omar at Goldman Sachs.
Omar led the way because Goldman saw what was happening with Robinhood and others and Acorn.
So they started a branch called Marcus Invest.
Marcus, to get in, you only need $1,000 to go into having an account.
So Goldman Sachs, who has been the cream of the crop, you need 10 million to come in.
If you don't have 10 million, we're not even doing anything with you, unless if you're part of the family, they saw the trend and they said, let's go open up Marcus to allow people to come in.
You answer the questionnaire.
Minimum investment you need to make is what?
$1,000?
Now you got an account.
That's my idea.
Phenomenal idea, right?
Okay.
Great name, by the way.
Marcus.
By the way, last year, just the Marcus business model generated $1.2 billion in revenues, $97 billion deposited into Marcus.
Let me say this one more time.
Just last year, $1.2 billion in revenues, $97 billion invested into Marcus.
Last year around 2020, during the pandemic.
And this is who Walmart recruited.
These are the two guys they recruited.
Smart.
So they recruited away the guys who led Marcus to go to Walmart.
So now they're going to go to Walmart.
Bring that experience from Goldman Sachs.
They recruited the main guys you want to recruit.
They're going to Walmart now.
97% of America lives within 10 miles, 200 million people that are visiting Walmart.
You got all this business.
Now you've got a banking, all the locations, traffic's already coming in.
Then the question becomes, who's an ally, who's an enemy?
Meaning who wants to see this become a reality?
Who doesn't want to see this become a reality?
Does B of A want to see this become a reality?
Does Chase want to see this become a reality?
Do they want to see this become a reality?
Who does want to see them become a reality?
Does a Robinhood?
Does a Goldman?
Who is it?
So I think that's going to be the battle.
But Walmart, you know, the number one enemy of Walmart is who?
Who's the number one enemy?
Amazon.
Amazon's the number one enemy.
Is this also going to be the first mover where Amazon next is going to want to come up with bank?
Is this when all these other guys are going to, shoot, you know, we get all this money that's coming and maybe we got to play ball.
And can Amazon compete at the level Walmart can?
This is an area where Amazon cannot compete with Walmart.
This is one area.
Is it because they have actual stores?
97%.
Yeah.
10 miles.
Got it.
So I can say to you, 97% of Americans are within 10 miles of my bank called the Bank of Walmart.
That's very, very interesting, the angle they took, if you think about it, because it's what Amazon cannot directly compete with them in.
A couple of thoughts.
We were joking about the Walmart thing, and we talked about Goldman Sachs and Marcus.
If from an optics standpoint and a branding standpoint and PR standpoint, you can't be Bank of Walmart.
You got to come up with a fancier name or a Marcus type of a thing for it to be a little more palatable if you're going to convert people.
If you're already banking at Walmart and you're cashing your checks there, you're going to freaking Walmart, whatever.
But if they come up with an attractive name and it's whatever, fair enough.
You know, people will be a little more opt to go there.
That's number one.
Number two, you brought up Amazon.
You know, if we learned anything from Jack Ma's Ant Group, what's their whole company that they're doing over there?
The Ant Group and Alibaba, the whole FinTech, like you're banking, you're shopping, you got your ID, you got your driver's license, you got your credit card, you've got every financial service tool, boom, on your phone.
Okay, so there's a model out there for Amazon to potentially emulate.
And obviously, Walmart is kind of playing in that thing.
But to Paul's point, does it really matter that you live near your bank?
Because banking is online anyways.
How often do you go into your bank anyway?
So I get it that it's cool to live near a bank, maybe near where you're shopping.
But don't forget.
How often do you need to do that?
You are rich to Middle America, Adam.
Don't forget who you are.
You may not be selling $25 million homes, but you still made your money.
It's not like you're making $50,000 a year.
You don't know what it is to be $50K right now.
You don't know the level of trust.
Like, you know how, I don't know if you guys got family where they say, oh, I don't trust online.
I like to go to a physical place.
There's still people like that that want to go to a place.
And it's typically folks that make $25,000, $35,000, $45,000, $55,000.
That's their market.
So they're targeting their own.
They're not targeting you.
They're not targeting you.
They're not targeting.
But they are targeting that.
So I think there's one interesting thing as well that you're not necessarily that you guys haven't brought up at least.
Walmart has 4,700 locations in America.
I mean, overnight, they can have 4,700 locations with the bank.
Imagine, you know how Apple also did their card where you get certain cash back, you get certain discounts and stuff like that?
Imagine if Walmart does that where you get 2% cash back on groceries.
Imagine the 200 million people that go shopping there automatically.
10, 20, 30, 40, 50% overnight can switch over and just have an extra car.
Look at the way they did.
Good for them, man.
Good.
I'd love to see Walmart and Amazon get.
You want to see that?
I just want to see that.
I want to see a heavyweight matchup because think about when Amazon bought Whole Foods.
You're like, what?
What the hell are you thinking?
And people are like, wow, you know, it's just not really a good move.
And it's like, yeah, okay.
Okay, buddy.
So then, if you're an Amazon, are you an Amazon Prime member?
Yes.
Can you please put in your number?
Matter of fact, just go to your app and show the thing, QR code, boom.
You just got a $9 discount.
I pay $99 for Prime.
And wow.
Okay.
So now you're going back to Whole Foods.
They charge 20% more than a regular place, but you feel healthier when you buy it Whole Foods.
So funny, same thing.
You feel healthy when you're a paycheck.
Guy's a genius, the guy who set it up, by the way.
So I don't know.
I kind of think this could be very interesting.
And I don't think Amazon could compete directly with these guys.
Not in this area.
May I make one more point, which is in the past, the American dream was owning a home, right?
Now the American dream is being an investor.
So even if you look at what happened a few weeks ago at GameStop, a lot of these investors and people who are part of Robinhood, they're all, they're students.
They're, you know, people who make whatever they make and they want to feel like they're part of that American dream.
So I think there is this huge transformation and evolution of what it means to be successful in this country.
And if you feel like you're part of the, whatever it looks like, be it, you know, investment in stock market.
And now Walmart, I think this is incredible because, like you said, they have a captive audience.
They have millions.
They probably have details of every single American citizen.
Think about the data they got.
So the data is, that's where the power is.
You have captive audience.
So how do you just smartly and strategically incorporate a whole new segment of business?
Wonder if they sat there and they said, What can we do that Amazon can't do?
I wonder if that was the board meeting.
Of course it was.
What can we do?
Like, you know, the whole blue ocean strategy concept is you're going to compete with somebody not directly in an area that they're weakened.
I wonder if they sat there and the brains in that board was, what's the one thing they cannot do?
Banking.
Let's go into it.
So, if Walmart, now you're buying your loan from Walmart, you buy a house, you get your loan, $300,000 loan from Walmart times millions.
I mean, that can really scale.
That can really scale.
And, you know, as far as the name goes, I mean, Walmart's used to have a new name, Sam's Club.
You know, they have, you know, they don't, Sam's Club is owned by Walmart.
Sam Walton.
Sam's the founder.
Sam's Club.
Sam Walton.
Sam's Club.
Yeah.
Okay.
So they could come out with a new name.
It's not a big deal.
You're going to say that.
So if you look at it the way Apple has their ecosystem of the apps, the App Store, kind of how everything is kept within it.
Imagine how Walmart can do that with banking as well.
I mean, then you're just controlling it.
I am looking forward to this heavyweight.
Ooh, this could get so interesting.
So interesting.
One thing I've definitely realized/slash learned about you: you light up when you think about competition.
Oh, yeah.
When you think of Walmart versus Amazon, you like genuinely like, ooh, yeah, baby, let's get that competition.
Are you kidding me?
You love it.
Of course I love it.
You want to compete?
The night Connor lost to Poitier.
I'm like, what, you know, because we wanted to see a Khabib fight?
Of course you want to see a fight like that.
But this, you realize this is the ultimate heavyweight.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
This is trillion-dollar companies going up against each other.
Well, it's like Facebook and Apple kind of talking smack, getting into it.
That's the heavyweight stuff.
I don't think so.
Because Facebook and Apple?
No.
Okay.
Okay.
Let me.
Oh, my gosh, Adam.
I can't believe you went over this.
So, so watch this here.
Watch this year.
Okay.
What percentage of Facebook's revenue comes from ads?
Don't say it.
Do you know it already?
Well, we talked about it.
Okay, so what is it?
It's like 98%.
98%.
Yeah.
Okay.
Crazy.
Apple's revenue, 98%, doesn't come from one product.
So what Amazon and Walmart are playing, they're trying to go dominate other.
Facebook is not playing that game.
Facebook's playing the ad game.
Facebook's competition is NBC, CNN, Fox.
Data, data.
No, what I'm trying to say.
Oh, the game they're playing is: you're going to come advertise and put your commercials with me.
You're going to come spend your ads with me, not with these other schmucks, because people are on this year.
They're no longer watching.
So Facebook's a complete different animal.
And by the way, to their strength, they're in a position that they're probably the hardest to directly compete with.
Facebook's not easy to directly compete with.
Who's going to directly compete?
Google Plus try to come out with a social media side.
How many guys actually posted more than five things on Google Plus?
Never even heard of it.
Google Plus came out.
It was their Facebook.
They got 50 million subscribers month one.
They said they're going to blow up.
They're going to beat Facebook.
I never once posted on anything.
When was your point?
That's the point.
I never heard of it.
When me and Facebook played Walmart.
Exactly.
Exactly.
I know Google Plus, like Sonata, knows Joe Jorgensen.
I just, I don't.
Okay.
Who?
What?
So here's a question for everybody that's watching.
If you think, if you think Bank of Walmart will compete, thumbs up.
If you think I don't think they're going to compete with Bank of America and all the other guys, thumbs down.
I'm curious.
We got 636 to 34.
By the way, the last time when I asked the question, can Trump win without?
Yeah.
It was three to one, which means three people said he still can.
One said he cannot.
So it's interesting to see what the status is.
Well, we know some of the people in our audience.
Well, we'll see what's going on.
I agree.
So regardless.
Okay.
So are you, bottom line is, are you rooting for Walmart to beat Amazon?
I'd say compete.
Beat.
I am rooting for Walmart to make the banking industry uncomfortable.
I am rooting for Walmart to make Amazon uncomfortable because you know who wins here?
The consumer, baby.
You and I. That's why you love capitalism.
That's why you love capitalism because it works.
It's not about you.
It's about the consumer.
You win at the end of the day.
You win at the end of the day.
It's interesting how you light up when you talk about these kind of things.
There's something in your bones that this is in your DNA.
Capitalism, competition.
Well, you know, taking over the.
Here you have a top realtor who worked for a capitalist, left socialistic/slash communistic nation to come to the U.S. You got a guy like me who lived in Iran.
What do you want to call that?
It's not socialistic.
Dictate out of totality.
Fascist.
Fascist.
What do you want to call it?
Women don't have any freedom.
You can't vote.
Girls get married at 13 years old.
I mean, that's Iran's laws, is what you're talking about.
And then we leave.
We go to Germany.
We come here.
And then you can build the kind of life that you got here.
Yeah, capitalism works.
You work for a capitalist.
You work for a capitalist.
I work for a capitalist.
We're all capitalists.
My commission that comes from insurance companies comes from because somebody started a business that's a capitalist.
Capitalism, the only way the socialism argument exists is because of a capitalist.
Only way.
If there is no capitalism, there is no other arguments.
No other isms if it wasn't because of capitalism.
No isms come first.
The first ism that comes is what?
Capitalism.
No other ism.
You need money to be able to spend the money.
And the capitalists know how to make the money so others can come out with their own individual isms, whatever those isms may be, right?
So, yes, I'm a die-hard capitalist, and I will keep saying that for the rest of my life.
And I know if it offends you, I know you get very frustrated when I'm soyboy community.
We're going to be all right.
Yeah, so you get emotional.
I love capitalism.
I just don't like authoritarianism.
No, authoritarianism.
Well, I don't like crony capitalism.
That's what I don't like.
I'm not a fan of that part because that's not a great equalizer.
Okay.
So let's talk about Buffett.
Is it okay if we talk about another capitalist?
Is it fair to say that Warren Buffett is one of the greatest capitalists of our era?
A Democrat.
A independent.
Independent.
Read his book.
I don't know if you've ever read his book.
You ever read his, what is that one book, Snowball Effects?
Huh?
Snowball Effect?
You ever read it?
It's a few thousand pages.
Every week, I read it.
Remember, that's his new Sunday.
Forget about the Yachts and South Beast.
I'm reading.
Warren Buffett, I'm reading his annual letters every week.
I'm reading the book.
By the way, it's actually, if you don't read it, listen to the audiobook.
And I'm recommending this to everybody.
You will learn so much about how he became who he is today.
Personal life, marriage, how he managed it, what happened to his wife at the end, you know, his parents, the influence of his parents, Republican Party, Democratic Party, how he got involved, all of it.
Fascinating anybody.
Could you sell that guy a $25 million house?
He still lives in his house in Omaha that he's lived in for like 50 years.
No, he's a different type of a capitalist where you have to save your money and be smart what you do with it.
I like that guy.
He's kind of like you.
I like that guy.
He's kind of like you.
That's more like that.
You know that he eats McDonald's every day for breakfast.
The capital foods would have been better for him, but his 90s, 90, and he's doing great.
90, and he says what?
He drinks eight to eight Coca-Cola's a day is what he drinks.
I think he's trying to get everybody else to drink eight because he's a big shareholder of Coca-Cola.
So let's talk about Buffett.
It's got a few different things that we got to cover, so let's try to get all of this.
First one is Warren Buffett says fixed income investors face bleak future.
Despite the recent sell-off that sent treasury yields to their highest point in a year as high as 1.6, bonds remain unappealing and should be avoided.
Legendary investor Warren Buffett says in his annual letter in Berkshire Hathaway shareholders on Saturday, bonds are not the place to be in these days.
He added, and certain large and important countries, such as Germany and Japan, investors earn a negative return on trillions of dollars of sovereign debt.
Let me read that one more time.
He said in certain large and important countries, such as Germany and Japan, investors earn a negative return on trillions of dollars of debt.
Fixed-income investors worldwide, whether pension funds, insurance companies, or retirees, face a bleak future.
Buffett noted that the income available from a 10-year U.S. Treasury bond at the end of 2020 was 0.93%, which has fallen 94% from 15.8% in 1981.
It's a bad example to use because 1981 is Jimmy Carter, but typically 3 to 5% is what you had.
It's still a big drop-off that we've had.
So, thoughts on what he said about fixed income?
I actually agree with him.
He's looking for the highest growth, and that's why he bought back all these Berkshire Hathaway shares, right?
I think with fixed income, it's really good when the returns are great and you feel comfortable and safe when the economy goes down.
But in a time of such extraordinary growth, why would you want to do that?
I would agree with that, but I think there's an area that's the concern.
I'm curious to know what are your thoughts about a lot of millennials about investing, especially in the stock market.
I'm a big fan of investing in the stock market, you know, and diversify and having some crypto in your portfolio.
And the conventional wisdom is to have your age in stocks or bonds and kind of have, like, if you're 30 years old, have 70% stocks, 30% bonds.
If you're 80 years old, 80% bonds, 20% stocks.
That's sort of the conventional wisdom.
But at this point, you know, unless you're 80 and you're not taking on any risk, why would you be in any bonds at this point?
I know.
Like anything.
So when you have someone like Warren Buffett even saying, what the hell are you doing in bonds?
You know, I try to put the people first and make recommendations to them.
You need to be in the stock market.
I mean, obviously, if you're looking for a house and you want to invest, awesome.
But you need to be in the equities stock world.
He's talking, but what is his concern about not being in fixed income?
Because fixed income is not going away.
It's not like it's going to be going away.
But here's what you're looking at: two-year note right now.
If you've got a two-year treasury, what is it?
0.135.
Yeah, I mean, you're not going to be able to get a five-year is 0.728.
If you got a 10-year note, it's 1.44.
It's going to take 50 years for your money to double.
So I put $100,000 in there.
50 years from now, 92.
It's going to be $200,000.
Why not just keep it in cash at that point?
What's the point?
Well, no, it's not even cash if you don't know what you're doing.
This is still better than if you stay in cash.
Better, but not liquid.
And what's the point?
If you don't know what you're doing, it's still better.
But watch the 30-year.
A 30-year treasury note.
30-year?
Yeah.
2.2%.
Why?
So the challenge isn't that, you know, whether you believe it or not, I actually think these things are going to go up in the next few years.
I think these numbers are going to go up.
Well, they can't go down.
No, they could go down.
I think they're going to go up the next 30 to 5 years because the market is going to take a hit when it does.
Bonds are going to come back up.
But the concern is the following.
Okay.
So if I put a 30-year note at 2.2%, you know, rule of 72, 30, 76, 72 divided by 2 is what?
36.
It's 2.2, so it's 32 years.
Gold right now is $1,700.
Do you think gold is going to double in the next 30 years?
Double?
Double in price.
30 years.
Yes.
Do you think it's going to be $3,500 an ounce 30 years from now?
Possibly, yeah.
Possibly.
Do you think it could go, maybe not double, go to $7,000 an ounce 30 years from now?
30 years from now, gold.
We don't create more gold.
Gold is gold.
Do you think the price, an ounce of gold will be $7,000 30 years from now?
I mean, with a limited supply and high demand, then possibly yes.
I mean, this is the point I'm trying to make to you is like 2% on a 30-year?
Who the hell in their right minds would lock in their money for 30 years right now at 2.2%?
Who's doing that?
Institutional investors?
Institutional investors.
Yeah, pension funds, yeah.
They take a little risk.
I mean, what do you think?
But 20% over 30%.
But I tell you, depending on the age bracket and where you're at with your risk tolerance, say you're dealing with somebody that's 60 years old.
I don't even know if it's 60%.
Yeah, I would probably be more focused on having a fixed income fund to put money into because I actually think it's going to go up in the next few years.
I don't think these numbers are going to stay.
I don't think Buffett is saying it.
Hey, it's a bad time to be in.
Of course it's a bad time to be in.
But I think he's going to be in three years from now.
It depends.
Like, I'm not thinking of institutional investors.
I'm just thinking of, you know, I'm a person and I'm looking to invest.
Like, that's what I'm, you know.
So if you're looking for growth and you're 30 years old, there's 0% reason you should be in bonds at this point.
Like, I can't think of a reason.
I mean, maybe there's some out there.
If you're conservative, what have you?
But if you've made your money, like Susie Orman, who's a pretty famous financial, she's saying that she's all in bonds.
And they're like, well, why the hell would you be in bonds?
She's like, look, I've made my millions.
Why do I want to have any risk whatsoever?
I'm 70 years old.
It becomes about wealth preservation.
Yeah, just keeping my money.
I'm good.
But if you're looking to, like, for me, I'm in, you know, growth strategy.
I want, you know, returns and I want my million to go to 5 million and yada, yada, yada.
Equities, stocks, risk, Bitcoin, commodities, but not bonds.
So depends where you're at.
So the older and more conservative you are, sure, stick to bonds.
But if you're looking for growth, no, this is not what you're doing.
Well, so let's talk about the buyback.
So he's buying back his shares, okay?
And he's talking about America is the greatest country in the world and there's never been a better time to be in America, you know, et cetera, et cetera.
What are your thoughts when he is buying back his own shares?
And we're not talking about like a little bit, $25 billion of his own shares they're buying back.
Well, you talked about where his mindset was this.
He's clearly bullish on his own company and he thinks that the stock is low.
How do you as an investor process when Buffett says, don't worry about buying my share?
I'm going to buy 25 billion of it.
How do you process him doing that?
He believes in his company and he believes in America.
I mean, anytime, here's something I'll say about Buffett.
Anytime, not that I'm doubting America.
Anytime I'm just like feeling a little uneasy with what's going on in the world, there is something really cool about being reassured by Warren Buffett, bet on America.
Don't bet against America.
Like, there is something, just that reminder is pretty cool.
You know, you being from Bosnia, hearing things like that, like, how does that make you feel when you hear Buffett just being like, America, baby?
He's the preeminent thought leader as it relates to investments and finances and knowing, yes, he made his money here, right?
But he is just so wise and, you know, at 90 years of age, he's seen it all pretty much.
I'm the same way.
Like, I want to know what his thoughts are and what he's doing to gauge and look at the crystal ball, because we don't have one, where this market is going to lead us to.
Because even though it's so good and so hot right now, it's like you wonder what's going to happen in five years.
So looking at what he's doing, I'm also a big believer in sort of, if you believe in your company, buy back your shares, you know where your money is going.
You're not going to just put it into treasury bonds.
But I believe in America, I believe in American business and innovation, which is something, you know, however much you want to look at investments in Europe and Asia, and there's some amazing companies there.
When you look at American innovation and technology, which is where all of the new growth is coming from, that's why Walmart is looking at fintech.
You know, you're looking at mostly American companies.
You know, the one question I have is the following.
Has Buffett lost his ways?
Okay.
And I know it's a, listen, you know, to say something like that, it's a pretty bold statement to go up against a guy that's worth nearly a billion dollars to say, Kai, do you have an email?
Are you checking or no?
80 billion.
I mean, 80 billion is 80 billion.
But I'm going to show you a data here for you to look at.
So it's comparing how Berkshire Hathaway has done versus SP 500.
I don't know if you guys seen these numbers or not.
Have you seen what he said also regarding kind of how they're growing so big at a certain point that it's harder to pick investments because you got to pick winning stocks essentially?
Yeah, but you got to see how he does against SP.
If there's one person he cannot lose to is SP 500.
That is not good in his world.
Like you can lose to Ray Dalio.
You can lose to anybody else.
You cannot lose to SP 500.
He's such a big proponent of just index investing in the S P. Just look at the link I sent you.
That's right.
That's the one as well.
That's the one.
January.
That's a good one to go to.
So go up right there.
Okay, can you make that a little bit bigger?
Yeah, make that a little bit more bigger.
Okay, so check this out.
2020, okay, so the light blue is SP 500.
The dark blue is Berkshire Hathaway, right?
Kai stop.
Look at 2020, okay?
SP 500 did 20%.
He did 4%.
Look at 2019.
SP 500 did 35%.
He did 10%.
Look at 2018.
SP 500 lost, say, 5%.
He made 3%, fixed income.
2017, even match.
2016, he wins.
Look at 2015.
He lost 15%.
SP 500 made 2%.
Tell you 14%, he wins double.
13, tie game.
12 tie game.
11, he loses.
2010, he wins.
2009, he got crushed, right?
2008, about the same.
2007, if you look at 7, 6, he destroys them, right?
But go to 2000.
Look how he did in 2000.
Crushed SP 500.
Look at 1999.
He lost, right?
Because that's the dot-com era, et cetera.
So, you know, the era of Berkshire Hathaway, the one thing the market is questioning is the following.
Look when he sold his 10, 11% he had in those four airlines.
Remember when he sold, like, he owned 10% in United, 10% in American, 10% and all these guys.
He sold them right at the beginning of the pandemic.
Bad time to sell it because it went 10X.
It went 10X six months later.
So that cost them some money here.
So my biggest concern is the following.
When you think about Elon Musk and Tesla, would you, you think Tesla is going to sell if Elon Musk is no longer with us, if they keep creating their products?
You think it's going to sell?
I think it is.
Because I think it's a good car.
I think it's a very, very good product that they're producing.
Is iPhone selling after Steve Jobs?
Why?
Because it's a good what?
Good product.
Mac, it's a good product.
They produce good product.
Berkshire Hathaway's philosophy and intuition, can you duplicate intuition?
Can you duplicate intuition?
Like, does Trump's kids have the intuition of the father?
You know, can Obama teach intuition to his kids?
Can Elon Musk teach intuition to his four or five kids?
You cannot teach intuition.
So Berkshire Hathaway is an interesting place right now because 90 years old.
Listen, I mean, people are sitting there saying, we love this guy, but you're 90 years old.
Charlie Munger is a little older as well.
They did the shareholder meeting in LA for a reason.
Typically, they do it in Omaha, but they did it in LA because of Charlie Munger.
So they didn't do the meeting in the typical place that they do it for decades, right?
Why?
Because you couldn't travel or why?
Well, I mean, it's just, you know, concerns, COVID, safer, much better if we do it.
25 years old.
Yeah, I mean, you understand it, right?
So, but the bigger question to ask is, are they going to be able to continuously beat SP 500?
It's not been the last few year run.
I mean, he had a good run in 2000s or 1990s or 80s, but there's a difference between 80s, 90s, and 2000s.
And today, by the way, he's the biggest shareholder of Apple.
These are the companies they own today.
American Express, biggest shareholder.
Apple, B of A, Chart of Communication, Coca-Cola, Chevron, GM, Merck, Moody's, U.S. Bank, Corp, Verizon.
You know, you, and he's very careful with technology.
He barely got into Apple.
Like, he was, you know, always negative about what technology is going to do.
Not bullish on Bitcoin.
Yeah, like, for example, I'll give you an idea.
Like, right now, baseball cards.
Okay, I don't know if you guys have been following any of the baseball cards.
If you want to put it up, crazy story on what happened.
You heard when I sold my Gregory for $1.3 million, two of them for $2 million.
They're like, oh, my gosh.
Sold two cards for $2 million.
Okay.
On Luka Donczik's birthday, go to the other one I sent you.
Luka Donczik's, he's 22 years old.
Crazy.
His rookie card just sold for $4.6 million.
That's wild.
It's the second most expensive card ever sold.
He's never won a championship.
He's never won an MVP.
He's 22 years old.
He even said himself in an interview, I'd like to own some of my own cards because millions are being made.
He doesn't make money on these cards.
He just got a concept.
Pay me some of these millions of dollars, right?
Go lower to show the card what it looks like.
Do you have the picture of the card?
If you go up, it's okay.
They don't have it here.
Go to the other one.
Go to no, the other one I sent you.
This guy right here, he bought Mickey Manel's PSA 10 card for $5.2 million.
Look at the top.
$5.2 million.
Guys, hold on the card right there.
Wow.
Who is this guy?
How does he have $5 million?
I mean, he paid $5.2 million for this card.
We need to sell him a luxury house.
So watch what happens here.
Watch what happens here.
Go to NBA Top Shot.
Okay.
I don't know if you guys have been following this or not.
Okay.
So look at the reaction of everybody.
Okay.
People have spent more than $230 million buying and trading digital collectibles on NBA highlights.
A recent highlight.
Okay, go on YouTube to show one of the highlights.
It's a video you buy for $300,000.
Okay, yes, exactly.
Let me just show you.
Just a card?
Type in NBA highlights, NFT, put LeBron.
Just put L-E-B-R-O-N-Y, LeBron.
Let's see if it shows.
One of them just sold for $300,000.
Okay, say the same thing you typed and put it in Google.
Same thing you typed and put it in Google.
Okay, and I'm going to get to my Buffet points here because it has to do $230,000.
No, there's one that just sold for, oh, right there.
Click on the second one.
LeBron James highlight video just sold for $270,000.
Guys, it's a six-second video.
Go down.
It's a six-second video.
Okay, if they have the video to show, go a little lower.
Let's see if they got it.
You guys got to see this here.
Go lower.
Okay, they don't have it.
Anyways, it's a six-second video of him.
Duncan, you buy it.
You own the crypto highlight for $230,000.
$230 million has already been put into this.
This is Branch Bank you know that just got started.
So it's not cryptocurrency.
It's crypto collectible cards and videos.
Okay, so now watch this.
I'm being interviewed.
Guys ask me a question because, you know, it's a collectible genius guy.
And this last week I spoke to guys that run the biggest auction and a new thing called Rally.
Put Rally RD.
I think it's a Rally RD.
You can officially buy stocks of cards.
Go to RallyRD.
I think this is the one.
You buy stocks of cards.
I like this.
They bought my Wayne Gretzky card.
They bought it for $720,000, one of them.
They have it on there right now for $800,000.
You can buy a share for $12.
Love it.
Oh, my God.
Love it.
Genius idea.
Yes.
Okay.
And by the way, they don't just do it with cards.
They do it with paintings.
They do with artwork.
He's going to come in down next month.
We'll have a conversation on something.
Rally.
Great.
Genius idea.
Rally is a platform for buying and selling equity shares in collectibles.
Collectibles.
Assets.
Any kind of collectibles.
Artwork, paintings, genius ideas.
You're like, look, I'm not trying to drop 200 grand on a baseball card.
Sure.
Cool.
Put in 10 grand and I'll get a portion of a Zion Williams.
Exactly.
That's exactly what it is.
So now democratizing things that only the super rich used to have access to.
Exactly.
Artwork.
I own 2% of a Picasso.
What you just said is exactly how they sell it.
What you just said is exactly how they sell it, right?
So now, what does this have to do with Buffett?
Here's what it has to do with Buffett.
The guy asked me a question.
He says, so what do you think is going to go up and what do you think is going to go down?
Do you think the physical cards are going to be bigger?
Or do you think these crypto NFT type of stuff is going to be bigger?
I said, the benefit I have is I'm 42 years old.
Is I'm young enough to remember, I'm old enough to know the value of cards when it was 30 years ago when we collected them, and it's emotional to me.
But I'm young enough to be logical to know this crypto stuff that you're seeing that's ridiculous to Warren Buffett, it's going to take off.
This is going to take off.
So the challenge with Buffett is, is there an age where you hit where some of the philosophies and the risks that you took, you no longer will take to outgrow S ⁇ P 500?
I don't know.
That's the challenge.
Because remember, you're not buying a physical product.
You're buying the man's mind.
And he's 90 and the other one is 95.
So is Berkshire Hathaway going to continue growing after Buffett?
What do you think?
I think they clearly have to have an exit strategy or a succession plan in place.
It's not like, God forbid, Warren Buffett dies this week.
They're like, what do we do now?
Oh, my God.
They're like, our leaders are in their 90s.
They're like the two guys and like the Muffet, the Muppet up in the crowd, like the old guys.
Yeah, like they have a succession plan in place, clearly.
Like we're not, I wouldn't overthink this.
I would assume that they have a plan in place and they understand that they need to.
Do you know my question, though?
My question is, can you teach intuition?
No.
I mean, you give the example of like Tony Robbins' son is trying to go out there and give speeches and you're just like, sorry, buddy.
Like, you know, Michael Jordan's son.
Exactly.
Like, I don't think Don Jr. has what Trump has.
You know, maybe a little bit.
Eric certainly doesn't.
You know, Ivanka, maybe a little bit.
Tiffany, no.
We'll see what Baron's stock is at.
But the point is, you can't teach intuition.
You can't teach what you're talking about.
So Berkshire Hathaway.
What do you think?
I think there's a philosophy, right?
And you either have intuition, charisma, your own set of beliefs and values and experiences, and people follow you for whatever reason.
They want to follow you, right?
With the succession plan, if the philosophy of a company worked out for decades based on Warren Buffett's values and beliefs of investing, then you have to find someone who has a similar philosophy, but also dares to look at new ways for growth opportunities, such as Walmart looking into FinCEN.
And I just, I think it's extraordinary what you just said, in that you have to be old enough to be wise and experienced, but you have to be young enough to know that things are changing.
I mean, just look at the, after the advent of Google, the whole world has changed, right, since 2002 or 3.
This is why they're saying that Chamoth, Palapetia, is sort of the new school Warren Buffett.
Have you heard this analogy?
People are making this analogy a lot.
Do you know who this is?
Chamath?
Pull him up.
Maybe she's recognized as he's a very successful.
He's a part small owner of World Estate Warriors.
He was an early investor in Facebook, I believe, and he's a billionaire.
Remember that face?
We're going to sell him a $25 million house?
I get a 10% reason.
No, I think with him, we can sell him a $40 million.
No, you could, actually.
That's not a problem.
And he would actually do it.
What's his net worth?
Probably a billion and a half.
I think he's a bill or two billion dollar guy.
Who's two?
Is he two?
He's a billionado guy.
What does your net worth need to be, Sonata, to buy a $20 million house?
You need to be worth $100 million?
$200 million?
Like for a $20 million house.
Yeah, in the $10 million.
So if someone's looking at a $20 million house, you know, all right, this person's worth, you know.
Yeah, you have to be worth at least, I would say, $200.
Unless, exactly, 10X.
Unless you decide to have not just mortgage, but like some people use asset-based loans to finance if they feel very strongly the value of the house is going to, if they consider it as an investment rather than just a place to work.
So if you're looking at a million-dollar house, do you have to have a net worth of $100,000?
Is it the same rules?
You need to have less?
A little bit different rules.
Yeah.
So it's because I will say huge majority, I was going to say 99% of people looking at ultra-luxury real estate are all paying cash.
Cash.
$25 million.
Cash is king.
Yeah, but for people who are looking at a million-dollar property, most of them are actually looking to finance.
So that's why it's so different.
You only need 20% to put down rather than being 10X.
Okay.
So are you optimistic long-term Berkshire Hathaway or no?
I'm not betting against Warren Buffett.
No, no, but wait a minute.
I didn't say Warren.
You see how I got diplomatic?
I know you did.
Yes, I am.
Yes, I am.
You're right.
I believe that he has imparted enough wisdom and knowledge and principles on the people that will be taking over because I don't remember the gentleman's name, but we talked about who the next man up was.
But I believe that they are, like you said, old enough to understand the past, but young enough to move with the times.
What do you think, Sonata?
Long-term Berkshire.
Are you long Berkshire Hathaway or short?
I, oh, that's a tough one, particularly knowing what we just discussed.
I'm long-term because of the sheer size and ability to move through whatever the market's going to bring.
And just look at the companies.
If you're the biggest investor in Apple, I'm riding with you.
Straight up.
Coca-Cola.
And the thing is, obviously, I think it's going to take a hit once one or both of them passes away, just emotionally, because people are going to be like, all right, I'm out.
However, he has said multiple times, the companies that have been chosen in the past are such value companies that he said like essentially a ham sandwich can run them because they're so staple companies that don't require a lot.
And if those are the ones they own, then I think those will stay valuable long term.
But however, the question is, will they be able to pick new companies like that?
That's where the issue is going to be.
Well, that's the processor of somebody.
So look, how many things you're seeing right now where the math makes zero sense, like the typical formula of that was used 20, 30 years ago doesn't apply today.
But he was the same way during the stock boom.
What do you mean?
No, the dot-com bubble.
Like he's pulled out of the market because he says the market doesn't make sense.
Why don't you go to Berkshire Hathaway stock?
Go to Berkshire Hathaway stock history of it.
Let's take a look at that.
Berkshire Hathaway stock history.
It still looks very good.
I think it's at $350,000, $377,000 right now per share.
Look at that.
It's gone up.
Will it continue going up post-Buffett?
That's the question that if you want to buy one share right now, you're spending $377,000 to buy one share, A share.
B share is like $300.
But if you want to buy an A share right now, $377,000 a share for one share is $377.
You got to love that, though.
Hey, we're not doing splits.
We're not doing anything.
You want a share?
Spend that $377.
And people are going to be able to do that.
Where is that on the most expensive stocks?
It's DA share.
Is that the family at number one?
Yeah, yeah, it's the most expensive stock.
They've never done a split.
They've never done anything.
And they tell you, you want it?
Spend that $377.
And then you'll be invited to the shareholder meeting that they're having.
Can you imagine?
But everybody that goes there owns at least one share.
But back to your point with that rally, if you want to own a percentage of a stock and there's companies out there like Stockpile and things like that where you can have one guy gave Buffett $10,000 back in 1974.
This guy was a small, you know the story we talked about it.
That $10,000, he left it, never touched it.
It's worth $780,000 today.
Wow.
Never touched the money.
You're banking on a guy.
You bet on a guy.
But anyways, let's wrap up with the story of Zlatan.
Okay, let's talk about our favorite guy here, Zlatan.
LeBron James responds to Zlatan.
And he says, there is no, because Zlatan initially told him, do we have here what he says or no?
It's lower.
Let me see what you have.
Okay, so you don't have what he said.
Why don't you pull up on Twitter what Zlatan said, and I'm going to put up exactly what the respond is.
So Kai, just pull up the Twitter Zlatan's tweet about LeBron.
LeBron.
There you go.
I think it was an interview in LA Times, I think.
You're right.
I think.
Yeah, you are right.
Why don't you set the stage for those that don't know who Zlatan is?
Because there might be some people that are not familiar with Latin.
Let's just read this.
So Zlatan, who is a superstar soccer player.
Top 10 in the world right now?
I don't know if he's top 10.
He is probably one of the most, you know, maybe not today, at his prime, because right now he's in his late 30s.
At his prime, this guy was a ridiculous talent coming in.
Everybody's 6'5, powerful, gets in your face.
He's Bosnian Croatian, yeah.
Physical, if you've ever seen his highlights, just type on Google.
Zlatan fights on the Zoom.
Ibrahimovich.
He is a beast of a guy, right?
So he goes out there, and he's a guy that's known for saying what's on his mind.
He says, LeBron James is a phenomenal at what he's doing, but I don't like it when people with some kind of status and they do politics at the same time as what they're doing.
I mean, do what you're good at.
So Zlatan calls out LeBron James.
So now LeBron James has to respond back.
And this is what LeBron James says.
He says, There's no way I will ever just stick to sports.
There's no way I will just stick to sports.
I never shut up about things that's wrong.
I preach about my people and I preach about equality, social justice, racism, systemic voter suppression, things that go in our community because I was part of my community at one point and seen the things that was going on.
And I know what's going on still because I have a group of 300-plus kids at my school that's going through the same thing and they need a voice.
And I'm their voice.
I'm their voice, and I use my platform to continue to shed light on everything that may be going on, not only in my community, but around this country and around the world.
There's no way I will just ever stick to sports because I understand how this platform works, how powerful my voice is.
Thoughts.
Okay, well, I come from the same background that Zlatan does, and I'm a huge fan, as you can imagine.
He's extraordinary as it relates to soccer.
But I'm totally annoyed at him because he has a huge platform and he does use his voice to speak up against racism.
And Zlatan himself has experienced tremendous amounts of hatred because of his ethnic background and has experienced racism playing in Europe.
So I think, as such high-profile global stars in two respective fields, I think it's incredible to use your voice to speak out and speak up about what things that are really, really important to you because you have all these people across the world listening to you.
And I feel he just kind of played into this super conservative, in my mind, racist ploy of, you know, stay in your lane, don't, you know, just shut up and dribble, which I think is awful.
He, I know from what I read, he admires LeBron, loves LeBron, but I don't think he should have phrased it the way he did.
In that, but I also understand, coming from where we come from, particularly in former Yugoslavia, when you talk about politics, you put yourself in a really uncomfortable situation.
You just were taught from early age.
Never talk about politics.
Don't talk about politics.
Keep your mouth shut because you're going to get in trouble one way or another.
It's almost like you have you associate fear with talking about politics.
And so he's experienced so much hatred, Zlatan has, playing in different fields.
Even like recently, he was playing in Belgrade and there was a huge racist rant.
They had to apologize to him.
And he was very stoic.
He just didn't say anything and kind of like sucked it up.
So if he's you think he should respond back?
Absolutely.
So when if you have such a huge platform and if you believe in social equality and justice and people being at least but what should he say?
What should he say?
If he's a player and people scream stuff at him, what should he say?
I don't think he should necessarily respond to a particular person who's being ignorant or hateful or racist or whatever.
But I think he should use Twitter.
You talked about technology.
Use your voice to say that's not cool.
This is what I've experienced.
And did you see what happened to this basketball player, Jeremy Lin, in the G-League last week?
Did you hear about him?
So there's two schools of thought here.
And I think at this point, it's just philosophical.
So Jeremy Lin, he's playing basketball.
One of the opponents calls him coronavirus because he's from China.
It's a hey, coronavirus, hey, coronavirus.
He says, I'm experiencing, you know, racial slur comments.
You know, people are kind of saying coronavirus.
So they said, who said it?
He said, I'm not going to go out there and tell anybody on who said it because I don't want to throw anybody under the bus.
I just want to bring awareness to say it's not appropriate and I hear it, but it needs to stop, but I'm not going to call anybody out.
I thought his approach was actually very restrictive.
I like the way he did it.
I like the way that he took that.
And by the way, earlier this year, something happened with LeBron at a game, at an Atlanta game.
I don't know which game it was, Paul, when one of the fans started shouting at LeBron.
The husband and him went at it, and then they got kicked out.
And then they asked LeBron afterwards.
So, LeBron, what do you think about what happened right now?
He says, well, listen, I'm just glad the fact that fans are back because that's fans.
They scream, we go at it, we go back and forth.
That is normal.
That's going to be taking place.
So, you know, sometimes I wonder if some of these athletes like his lot and he's like, I just don't even want to get into the political world just to get into the world.
Yet he has such a big platform to use it.
Is it right to use it?
Or is it better to take the Michael Jordan approach and say, look, man, I'm just not getting into politics.
That's exactly where I was going with this: that, you know, Michael Jordan set a precedent for himself and athletes that he was going to be apolitical.
Even in North Carolina, when I don't know if it was Jesse Helms or whoever the hell it was in North Carolina, was a blatant racist running against a black politician.
And people, even his mom, people in his corner are like, you got to speak up about this.
Like, these are your people.
Like, what's up?
And he's like, you know what?
Famous quote: Republicans buy sneakers too.
And he just, and he's been for a long time apolitical.
I think even during the BLM and Blue Lives Matter movement, he donated, you know, an equal amount of money to both sides, right?
LeBron James, different character.
LBJ, DGA fee.
LeBron James don't give a F, you know?
So he has a voice.
He's going to use it.
He's not going to just shut up and dribble.
Laura Ingraham, you know, called him out a few years ago, and he's like, no.
But I thought that was also a dumb comment she made.
What do you mean, just shut up and dribble?
I know.
What is disrespectful?
It's so racist.
Yeah, yeah.
It's not about just shut up and dribble.
I just, I think, like, you know, I think it's just a different level of res.
I like Jordan's approach.
I like Jordan's approach of what he took.
And I do think you talk about your own, but I also think there's an element of LeBron also being divisive.
I think you're also dividing America.
You said you've been polarized by LeBron.
You've been vocal that's not a fan.
I don't think he's a uniter.
I mean, all this stuff about Unite, Unite, United, LeBron definitely is not a.
So what's different about what he's doing than what Trump's doing?
He's dividing.
Did I say Trump's a uniter?
No, no, no.
Did you hear me at all categorizing?
Not at all.
I think LeBron and Trump are very similar.
I think LeBron is.
He's playing to their base.
I think LeBron and Trump are very similar.
Very similar.
The only difference is Trump converts.
LeBron doesn't.
LeBron just gets his own audience, but he doesn't convert.
Trump used to convert.
Trump is a converter because he doesn't have a platform.
If he did, he would continue to convert.
He lost his platform.
That's the point.
Yeah.
But what I'm trying to tell you is: LeBron and Trump, believe it or not, are very, very similar.
Very similar.
Jordan is in a league of his own in the way he handled media and the way he did everything.
Jordan, Reagan, those guys you put in a similar league of their own, John F. Kennedy, these are in the league of their own.
Reagan won 49 out of 50 states, and even Democrats like the guy.
John F. Kennedy, even Republicans liked him.
Jordan, even Republicans like him.
You know, even when Jordan and Barkley were once on an Oprah Winfrey show, you know, and they were teasing each other and Barkley, you know, actually, they were at the Olympics and something.
They were playing.
He says, hey, Jordan, Mike, why don't you tell everybody, who'd you vote for for president?
None of your business.
Yeah, I know you voted Republican.
So there is that joke that Barkley would have with him.
But I like the way Jordan did it.
And quite frankly, Zlatin is probably sitting there.
For Zlatan to do this, and you go back to his history, and he made some comments years ago himself that he used his own platform.
He made some comments saying there were some comments made about me, so he has done it before.
So there's a little bit of hypocrisy on Zlatan's position as well because he's Zlatin's like a Trump for you to say, don't use your platform to say anything.
You can say, I disagree with LeBron, but you can't say don't use your platform.
The guy's going to use his platform.
So LeBron can say whatever he wants to say.
If he agrees, disagrees, he's earned the right to say whatever he wants to say.
There's shots that come with it, but he can say whatever he wants to say.
I think Zlatan's one of those guys that he's so witty, he's so smart, he's so good with the media that he would actually make a decent politician later on.
He would be entertaining.
I'm being serious.
And by the way, I think he likes controversy as well.
So he knows that everyone's going to be talking about Zlatan if he goes against Latin.
So do you think there was a little bit more behind this when he said this comment he knew is that it would get picked up, LeBron would exchange.
Now we're talking about it on the screen.
Absolutely.
Now guess who's trending right now?
Stirring the pot.
Stirring the pot.
FYI.
Zlatin played for what team in the soccer?
AC Milan?
Yeah.
And then where did he play in U.S.?
LA and Galaxy.
Okay, who else was in LA at the time?
David Becker.
LeBron James.
So LA, you know, there's some stuff.
You know, these guys are competitive guys.
You know, when Zlatan came to, if you ever watch him play when he went and played for Galaxy, let me tell you, people lost their minds when this guy played.
I want to watch this guy.
I was on the grass watching Zlatan play.
It's ridiculous watching this guy play live.
Make an analogy, would you?
Like, is he the Charles Barkley of soccer?
Who is he?
He's the LeBron James of soccer with his body because soccer players are tiny.
But he's not.
LeBron James is like the greatest of all time.
Stop it.
Like Ronaldo would be a LeBron.
Please get this.
Ronaldo or Ronaldo would be.
He's the man in this building.
Hey, hey, hey, hey.
LeBron James.
He's the greatest of all time.
Jordan's the greatest of all time.
Jordan would be like a Pele.
That's what I mean.
Jordan would be like a Pele.
No, what I'm saying to you is, let me make the analogy.
Ronaldo would be LBJ.
Let me make the analogy that's a little better for you.
Yes, please.
Is LeBron the greatest human specimen ever in the game of basketball outside of Shaq?
Physically.
Physically.
Yeah, yeah.
That's what you're saying physically.
Oh, he's a human.
I'm saying iconically or legendarily.
Game-wise.
He's Shaq.
Okay.
He's the Shaq of soccer.
That's the best way to put it.
He's the Shaq of soccer.
Let me tell you, he pushed people around.
He elbowed you in the face.
He slapped you in the face.
He punched you.
He did everything.
Everything you're not supposed to do.
Better than Zidane?
Oh, League of His Own.
Yeah.
The guy was a Taekwondo black belt who played soccer.
So he's known as a fighter and he's a survivor.
He's aggressive.
He's very, very aggressive.
Go type and Zlatin kicks on YouTube.
See how he does.
He would destroy a person if he kicked them.
I love watching him too, by the way.
It's just, it's a persona.
Have you seen the documentary?
I have not seen anyone.
Okay, so the documentary is a good one because they record him when he's 17 years old and he's going with his manager to go negotiate the big contract.
He's about to get a massive contract.
And his manager is getting nervous.
And Zlatin, 16, 17 years old, says, get your act together.
You're acting like you're scared.
Okay?
Act like you belong here.
Tell us the 50-year-old man.
Absolutely.
He tells his 50-year-old manager, act like you belong here.
Why do you look so nervous?
Act like you've been here.
16, 17-year-old kid telling that thing.
He speaks of himself in third person.
Yes, he does.
Zlatin thinks that's awesome.
You got to love the guy.
Anyway.
So if you enjoyed today's podcast and having Sonata on and Adamon, smash that subscribe button.
Sonata, it's been great having you on.
Thank you so much.
So much for coming and spending time with us.
I believe we are doing it again this Thursday.
We are trying to get on the routine to be doing it on a weekly basis.
So, again, this Thursday, 8 a.m., same time, we'll be back at it again with the podcast.
Who's with us this Thursday?
Do we know Daniel DeMartino Booth?
Daniel DeMartino Booth will be here this week with us on Thursday.
