Dr. Oz Podcast - Dr. Oz Investigates the Opioid Crisis & the Casey Anthony Case | Dr. Oz | S8 | Ep 129 | Full Episode
Aired: 2026-04-22
Duration: 42:39


=== Walking Into Hell (13:00) ===

[00:00:00]  You could think of what hell might look like.
[00:00:02]  This is it.
[00:00:03]  I just walked into hell.
[00:00:09]  Who would want to do this?
[00:00:10]  Who would want to shoot up on a table with a beaten up chair looking in the mirror to find the last vein in their neck?
[00:00:17]  So, do you ever find cadavers here?
[00:00:19]  People passed?
[00:00:20]  What I encountered in one city.
[00:00:22]  I've never imagined anything like this.
[00:00:24]  Changed me forever.
[00:00:26]  Coming up next.
[00:00:29]  What you're about to see is going to shock you.
[00:00:33]  I saw this article online.
[00:00:35]  The headline, A Hidden Hellscape.
[00:00:38]  And the quote, I question whether I was still in the U.S.
[00:00:43]  It's about the heroin crisis in a city that is my second home, Philadelphia.
[00:00:47]  It's where I went to medical school.
[00:00:49]  It's where my wife's family is from.
[00:00:50]  And I knew I had to go there myself.
[00:00:53]  Today, an inside look at ground zero of the heroin epidemic on the East Coast, where 900 overdoses occurred last year, 35 in a five-day span.
[00:01:05]  It's a side of heroin none of you have seen until now.
[00:01:21]  This is a place where few people venture.
[00:01:24]  Heroin users call it the tracks.
[00:01:28]  It's a half mile corridor of train tracks, less than four miles from the Liberty Bell in Philadelphia.
[00:01:34]  But over the years, it's become one of the largest open air drug markets in the eastern United States.
[00:01:40]  A place where people struggling with addiction score, use, live, and die.
[00:01:53]  My guide, DEA Special Agent Gary Tuggle.
[00:01:58]  What does this place mean to you?
[00:02:01]  This, to me, Dr. Oz represents a microcosm of a much bigger problem in this country.
[00:02:07]  And that's the insatiable appetite that we as Americans have for drugs.
[00:02:12]  Let me show you this over here.
[00:02:15]  Open needles here is terrible.
[00:02:18]  So, Dr. Oz, this is what is sort of typical of a shoot house.
[00:02:24]  If you can come in, you'll see when they're Empty glassing bags of heroin.
[00:02:29]  So they actually built a house here to do drugs.
[00:02:32]  Right.
[00:02:33]  Who sort of set this place up?
[00:02:34]  Well, Dr. Oz.
[00:02:36]  Some folks consider themselves to be resident doctors with respect to administering drugs, right?
[00:02:44]  Service must be paid before any is given.
[00:02:55]  Needle than an ER.
[00:03:00]  So they actually, these are bags of heroin.
[00:03:02]  Yeah.
[00:03:04]  Absolutely.
[00:03:04]  This is a squeeze so they get the veins?
[00:03:06]  Yeah.
[00:03:06]  Exactly.
[00:03:07]  And they put it in this little cap?
[00:03:08]  Yes.
[00:03:10]  And look at the syringes.
[00:03:11]  Oh my gosh.
[00:03:11]  Syringes right there.
[00:03:12]  And what's the mirror for?
[00:03:13]  The mirror is used to ensure that they're hitting the right vein.
[00:03:17]  So they'll come here, they'll look for the artery, they'll shoot it, right?
[00:03:24]  And then they'll go over here.
[00:03:27]  And all this is, refuse is just left.
[00:03:29]  over from people using this stuff?
[00:03:31]  Yes.
[00:03:32]  Some folks live down here.
[00:03:33]  Things that you would see in a common household you'll find here.
[00:03:35]  There's a mattress right there, chairs, table.
[00:03:41]  Who comes here?
[00:03:42]  We've had folks come here from Florida, from Maine, New York, Baltimore, Washington.
[00:03:50]  One of the sad things about it is that folks will come here and never leave.
[00:03:54]  So the word travels that fast.
[00:03:55]  And why do they come here?
[00:03:58]  Highest purity levels and lowest prices.
[00:04:00]  Of heroin.
[00:04:01]  Of heroin.
[00:04:01]  And that's what drives demand.
[00:04:03]  You can think of what hell might look like.
[00:04:05]  This is it.
[00:04:05]  I just walked into hell.
[00:04:09]  DEA Special Agent Gary Tuggle is here.
[00:04:13]  Walking through this community, this place, was like going through a third world country.
[00:04:18]  When you first saw it, what did you feel about this hellscape?
[00:04:22]  Well, it was hard to reconcile because we're in what's considered to be the greatest country in the world.
[00:04:31]  But to see the plight of despair, it was tough looking at.
[00:04:35]  And we were walking through this area, pointing out that we lose more people from drugs here than we lost in wars.
[00:04:40]  These are gargantuan numbers of lives that are taken.
[00:04:44]  And that ignores the suffering that goes along with it.
[00:04:47]  Absolutely.
[00:04:48]  I mean, it's absolutely horrible.
[00:04:50]  If you think about it, consider the fact that the Vietnam War lasted for 25 years, from 1955 to 1975.
[00:04:59]  And in that war, very tragic, we lost about 58,000 Americans, men and women who went to fight for our country.
[00:05:09]  But in 2015 alone, we lost almost 53,000 in one year, in one year, to fatal overdoses.
[00:05:18]  We've talked on the show in the past about the reality that prescription opioid drugs are a gateway to heroin.
[00:05:22]  One of the biggest problems with this epidemic is how much cheaper heroin is than prescribed opioids.
[00:05:28]  So I've never done this before, but since I've got a world expert here, come on over.
[00:05:32]  Let's talk about what really happens in the real world.
[00:05:34]  I'll speak about the medical side of it, then educate me on what's happening in the street.
[00:05:38]  So when I prescribe a narcotic to someone who has back pain, right?
[00:05:41]  Oxycontin.
[00:05:42]  This is 30 milligrams of OxyContin.
[00:05:46]  And the equivalent heroin hits is over here.
[00:05:49]  So, if we sort of parallel this out, just walk me through this.
[00:05:52]  I prescribe this, and what's the street value of 30 milligrams of OxyContin?
[00:05:57]  $30.
[00:05:58]  That would be $1 per milligram.
[00:06:00]  $30.
[00:06:00]  That's correct.
[00:06:01]  And if the equivalent feel is about this bag of heroin, what does this cost me?
[00:06:06]  That could cost you between $5 and $15.
[00:06:10]  That's it.
[00:06:10]  That's it.
[00:06:11]  So, it's a third to a half the price.
[00:06:13]  Exactly.
[00:06:14]  So, we're discounting heroin in America.
[00:06:16]  Well, we're discounting heroin, but Dr. Oz is based on principally the level of demand for it.
[00:06:22]  And that demand has been fed for years by the misuse and abuse of prescription opioids.
[00:06:27]  I was surprised to learn that you exchanged a lot of ideas when you're, you know, by the way, you guys escorted me, thank goodness, I had an army with me just because of security issues, and I thank you for that.
[00:06:37]  No problem.
[00:06:38]  But I was surprised to learn that you actually keep three poppy plants in your office.
[00:06:42]  I have a picture of them, if I can show that to everybody.
[00:06:44]  Yeah, absolutely.
[00:06:45]  Why?
[00:06:45]  Why would a DEA.
[00:06:47]  Leader, one poppy plants in their office.
[00:06:49]  This reminds me every day of the challenge that we face in this country and the challenge that we ask our personnel to go out and execute with respect to the mission that we have.
[00:07:00]  Again, we are in the worst drug epidemic of this country's history.
[00:07:05]  And my folks view it that way.
[00:07:07]  You have a number of men and women who are out there every day trying to address this stuff.
[00:07:12]  All right, when we come back, what the DEA says communities must do to fight the heroin epidemic, that means you and me.
[00:07:18]  But first, Here's what Philadelphia city officials have to say about this huge issue.
[00:07:23]  If it was up to you as a city health commissioner, would you shut this down?
[00:07:25]  Just put two big walls up here and not let anyone come back?
[00:07:27]  We absolutely think, yeah, the site needs to be cleaned up, need to be put big barriers here so people can't go down here and hide to use illegal drugs.
[00:07:34]  That'll bring them out on the street, which gives us a greater opportunity to engage them and get them into treatment.
[00:07:39]  Next, why the heroin epidemic is getting worse despite current efforts and what needs to be done to prevent future deaths by overdose.
[00:07:48]  And later, it was one of the country's biggest murder trials.
[00:07:51]  Today, nearly six years since being acquitted of killing her two-year-old daughter, Casey Anthony speaks out.
[00:07:59]  Big box stores are a shopper's dream.
[00:08:01]  But with thousands of money-saving items, how do you know what to really buy?
[00:08:06]  We have insider tips to get the biggest bang for your buck.
[00:08:10]  It ends up being 40% less than what you would pay at a grocery store.
[00:08:13]  Big buys that are actually worth your money.
[00:08:15]  Then, I'm going to show you how to double your groceries at no extra cost.
[00:08:19]  I love this because people don't think about this, and nobody knows about this until I tell them.
[00:08:23]  All nuanced.
[00:08:25]  That's coming up tomorrow.
[00:08:38]  Folks come to this place and places like it because of just the mere secluded nature of it.
[00:08:45]  It was scary.
[00:08:46]  I would not normally go under a bridge like that.
[00:08:49]  But folks in the throes of substance abuse and addiction, to them, they don't see those same hazards that you and I would see.
[00:08:57]  And if they do, they sort of look past it because that addiction is so strong.
[00:09:04]  I couldn't believe what I was seeing, what I was hearing, what I was smelling.
[00:09:08]  And it's all happening right here in the US, in Philadelphia.
[00:09:11]  Now, the Centers for Disease Control is reporting overdose deaths from prescription opioids, heroin, and synthetic drug fentanyl are all at highs, all time highs.
[00:09:21]  So take a look at this.
[00:09:23]  Prescription opioids, what doctors write to you, right?
[00:09:25]  Gradual increase, and then here it begins to taper off here around 2015.
[00:09:30]  And why?
[00:09:31]  Because there's a lot of pressure now for doctors and dentists to stop prescribing lots of narcotics for simple things that don't require it.
[00:09:38]  Heroin.
[00:09:38]  Right?
[00:09:39]  Not that much of a problem until 2010.
[00:09:41]  Then, boom!
[00:09:42]  And why?
[00:09:43]  It fills the gap.
[00:09:44]  When we crack down on doctors overprescribing illegal drugs like heroin, it fills the gap.
[00:09:49]  But now, fentanyl.
[00:09:51]  Nothing, boom!
[00:09:55]  Huge spike in overdose deaths in the last two years.
[00:09:59]  We're back with DE agent Gary Tuggle.
[00:10:02]  Gary, why fentanyl?
[00:10:03]  Why the spike?
[00:10:04]  And why is it causing so many deaths?
[00:10:06]  Well, Dr. Oz, fentanyl is often used by drug trafficking organizations as sort of a marketing tool.
[00:10:13]  Think about this.
[00:10:13]  As a marketing tool?
[00:10:14]  As a marketing tool.
[00:10:16]  They're running a business, right?
[00:10:18]  And they're in competition with other drug trafficking organizations for profit.
[00:10:22]  In order to do that, they have to have the best product on the street.
[00:10:26]  Oftentimes, they adulterate heroin, it may not be so pure, with fentanyl.
[00:10:32]  That's extremely potent.
[00:10:34]  In some cases, it could be 80 to 100 times more powerful than morphine.
[00:10:40]  You mentioned business.
[00:10:41]  I just got to say, this is an epidemic in every state because it's been reported in every state.
[00:10:47]  The business part of this, I was completely ignorant of.
[00:10:50]  Walk everyone through the numbers.
[00:10:52]  Well, the average person in that area is probably shooting about $100 a day.
[00:10:57]  They probably have on average about $100 a day habit.
[00:11:01]  That means that they have to get that money somewhere.
[00:11:05]  The money that's generated there on a daily basis alone is astronomical.
[00:11:11]  So, the way that I heard they get the money is from panhandling, petty crimes.
[00:11:17]  Petty crimes, selling their bodies.
[00:11:19]  That's right.
[00:11:19]  Bad stuff.
[00:11:20]  But $100 a day gets transacted.
[00:11:22]  I saw maybe, I don't know, 30 people living under there, right?
[00:11:24]  That's $3,000 a day.
[00:11:26]  Do the math, folks.
[00:11:27]  It's a million dollar business under that little bridge.
[00:11:30]  And there are lots of bridges that I saw.
[00:11:32]  So it's really big business.
[00:11:35]  If a company was making a million bucks and wasn't reporting taxes and operating out of a shoebox, I think people would get interested in the money part alone.
[00:11:45]  So, how does the DEA plan to deal with this?
[00:11:48]  Give me the inside scoop here.
[00:11:50]  Okay, so DEA, as you know, is a law enforcement agency as well as a regulatory agency, and we're a very good one.
[00:11:56]  We do a superb job with respect to going after those big trafficking groups internationally that try to traffic or do traffic into the U.S. One of the things that we've realized, though, is that we need to put an increased emphasis on demand reduction, right?
[00:12:11]  So how do we move folks either from using drugs to not using drugs, And how do we just prevent folks, particularly our young people, from using drugs in the very beginning?
[00:12:24]  That goes right toward, and it's a force multiplier for the enforcement side, but it's not a law enforcement issue alone.
[00:12:31]  We cannot arrest our way out of this thing.
[00:12:34]  Did you all hear that when one of the leaders of our nation's fight on war, battling the war of drugs, says we cannot arrest our way out of it?
[00:12:42]  That means it's up to us a lot.
[00:12:45]  So creating that heightened sense of awareness with respect to the problem.
[00:12:52]  We've done a number of things, including what we call our 360 strategy, which still has a high emphasis on enforcement.

=== Beyond Arrests and Drugs (06:10) ===

[00:13:00]  And then we look at the regulatory side.
[00:13:02]  Okay, so how are we making aware those 1.65 million DEA registrants that we regulate?
[00:13:10]  Doctors, dentists.
[00:13:11]  Doctors, dentists.
[00:13:13]  So how are we making them aware that they can be a part of the solution rather than a part of the problem?
[00:13:19]  And then there's 1% of those that we consider rogue, right?
[00:13:23]  And I call them white coat drug dealers.
[00:13:25]  Because it makes them know better than the heroin sellers out there.
[00:13:28]  Thanks for being a warrior in this.
[00:13:29]  Now, together, we met quite a few people.
[00:13:32]  We did.
[00:13:32]  But while on the tracks, I met one user who wanted to share with us what his life was like now.
[00:13:39]  Fascinating, highly intelligent man named Steve, who was at one time a highly paid construction executive.
[00:13:45]  Now he says his only reason to live is to get his next fix.
[00:13:49]  When we come back, you're going to meet Steve and be a witness to his life on the tracks.
[00:13:52]  And I promise you, you do not want to miss this.
[00:14:01]  Next.
[00:14:02]  I've been watching many people die right there.
[00:14:04]  I can't afford to buy a hot dog right now.
[00:14:06]  The last year that I ever claimed taxes on the books was $575,000.
[00:14:10]  You made more than a half a million dollars a year?
[00:14:12]  Yep.
[00:14:13]  I guarantee in six months I won't be here.
[00:14:15]  You know, heroin will take my life.
[00:14:22]  I want you to meet Steve, a former business executive who once made a half a million dollars a year.
[00:14:29]  Went from that, from building homes, to becoming homeless, a heroin user.
[00:14:34]  While filming on the tracks, Steve approached me and he offered to show us what his life is now like.
[00:14:40]  And I said, listen, I want to see everything, but I want to warn you all out there.
[00:14:43]  I'm going to show it to you as I saw it, as we witnessed it.
[00:14:46]  What you're about to see is disturbing and it may not be appropriate for small children.
[00:14:56]  Horrible way that we live heroin.
[00:15:00]  Once you start, you're heroin addict for life and there's only two things that come out of it, prison and death.
[00:15:06]  Um, i've been down here personally and watched many people die right there.
[00:15:11]  Right there, die what?
[00:15:12]  Here, right there.
[00:15:17]  I watched them pick up the body and carry them over there and set them in the field so they're found like a day or two later, so they don't stop what's going on that day and like you, look at them people and you're like you know that's somebody's son or somebody's husband i'm sure they had kids and how meaningless our life is like when we do OD and die.
[00:15:37]  For someone like me, you know, I can't afford to buy a hot dog right now.
[00:15:41]  The last year that I ever claimed taxes on the books was $575,000.
[00:15:44]  So, you know, more than a half a million dollars a year.
[00:15:48]  Yep.
[00:15:50]  For me, some stuff happened to my kids.
[00:15:53]  I got very depressed.
[00:15:54]  Started running around the wrong people and got introduced to this drug life.
[00:15:58]  And, you know, you start out with a house.
[00:16:00]  And then, you know, just take little by little, you know, you go to an apartment, to renting a room, to being homeless.
[00:16:09]  But I guarantee in six months I won't be here.
[00:16:11]  You know, heroin will take my life.
[00:16:14]  That's where it's at.
[00:16:19]  Towards the end of the day, in a very emotional moment, Steve asked me for help.
[00:16:23]  I couldn't say no.
[00:16:24]  So I called the people at Integrity House in Newark, New Jersey, and they thankfully have accepted him into care.
[00:16:31]  Emery Sally is here.
[00:16:32]  She's a senior clinical director of Integrity House.
[00:16:35]  I've got to say, Emery, as smart as Steve is, and he really is, he was building homes for professional athletes and he acknowledged he'd become homeless in part because he self sabotages.
[00:16:46]  So, what do you do for someone like Steve?
[00:16:49]  Well, we've referred Steve to a detox.
[00:16:52]  He'll remain there for about three to four days and he will be transferred immediately to our Meadows program in Secaucus where he'll receive short term residential care where they will stabilize.
[00:17:03]  Not only his substance abuse issues, but also his chronic mental health issues as well.
[00:17:08]  And at that point, we may feel and reassess him and feel that he may need additional treatment at Integrity House, and we're willing and able to do that.
[00:17:18]  So, I gotta say, I'm stunned at how big a problem this is, in part because the people who are suffering are not trying to help themselves.
[00:17:26]  You think you can get it to stick with Steve and many others like him?
[00:17:31]  It's gonna be hard.
[00:17:32]  It's gonna be really hard, Dr. Oz.
[00:17:34]  It's no guarantee.
[00:17:35]  It's gonna be a struggle for him and for many who continue to struggle.
[00:17:40]  We're gonna be walking with him every step of the way.
[00:17:43]  We're gonna meet him where he is, and we're gonna hope that it does stick.
[00:17:49]  What I've been impressed by. is thanks to services like yours.
[00:17:52]  We've got over 20 million people in America who are in recovery.
[00:17:55]  Recovery is real.
[00:17:56]  It works.
[00:17:57]  It may take a dozen times to get there.
[00:18:00]  But I know, Steve, if you're listening to me right now, you can make it, and we'll get your family on board.
[00:18:04]  So we're going to follow Steve's story.
[00:18:06]  We're going to give him the support that I promised him, thanks to you, Emory, and Integrity House, and get you on your road to recovery.
[00:18:11]  So the kinds of things I witnessed hopefully won't happen anymore.
[00:18:15]  Let me offer some final thoughts, folks, because I spent a lot of time in this.
[00:18:18]  The DEA, God bless them, warriors trying to protect us, can't do it alone.
[00:18:22]  And frankly, we can't do it by ourselves either, those of you out there just trying to make ends meet in life.
[00:18:27]  But we can help each other and succeed that way.
[00:18:30]  We can't arrest our way out of this.
[00:18:32]  It's a medical problem, but we've got to medically show up for our care.
[00:18:35]  So you can look at what we just showed you on the tracks, and you can see garbage, disease, and chaos, and death.
[00:18:43]  A lot of you probably saw that.
[00:18:45]  Or you can see people, people who, for one reason or another, have lost their way.
[00:18:50]  And although we are each responsible for our own fate, that's up to us.
[00:18:54]  What drives people to addiction isn't so simple.
[00:18:56]  And as a poet once wrote, there, but for fortune, may go you or I.
[00:19:01]  So with compassion and some tough love, I think we can get there.
[00:19:04]  Something to think about.
[00:19:05]  Be right back.

=== The Casey Anthony Case (03:58) ===

[00:19:11]  Next, accused of murdering her two-year-old daughter, Kaylee.
[00:19:14]  Now, for the first time since being acquitted, Casey Anthony has spoken out.
[00:19:18]  This is the part of it that I don't understand.
[00:19:20]  And though the trial may be over, this case remains far from closed.
[00:19:24]  Yeah, there's a couple things that stand out to me here.
[00:19:27]  Big box stores are a shopper's dream.
[00:19:29]  But with thousands of money-saving items, how do you know what to really buy?
[00:19:34]  We have insider tips to get the biggest bang for your buck.
[00:19:37]  It ends up being 40% less than what you would pay at a grocery store.
[00:19:41]  Big buys that are actually worth your money.
[00:19:43]  Then, I'm going to show you how to double your groceries at no extra cost.
[00:19:47]  I love this because people don't think about this, and nobody knows about this until I tell them.
[00:19:51]  All nuisance.
[00:19:53]  That's coming up tomorrow.
[00:20:01]  Casey Anthony, a name and face no one will ever forget.
[00:20:06]  She was once described as the most hated mom in America.
[00:20:09]  And now, for the first time since being acquitted for killing her daughter, Casey Anthony is speaking out.
[00:20:15]  And that's not all.
[00:20:16]  Today, crime reporter Nancy Grace, who has been fighting for victims' rights her entire career, gives her take on this interview and the answers that we need to have to the big question why now?
[00:20:27]  But first, six years after one of the country's biggest murder trials, Casey Anthony sat down exclusively.
[00:20:33]  With a reporter from the Associated Press and reveals what she remembers about the day her daughter disappeared.
[00:20:39]  I'm still not even certain as I stand here today about what happened.
[00:20:44]  Those are the words of Casey Anthony, accused and acquitted of killing her two year old daughter, Kaylee, in 2000.
[00:20:51]  The country could not look away from this case.
[00:20:54]  The Casey Anthony trial.
[00:20:55]  Casey Anthony faces a maximum of four years behind bars.
[00:20:59]  Casey Anthony will be released from jail.
[00:21:01]  And nearly 10 years later, still can't.
[00:21:04]  Casey Anthony maintains her innocence.
[00:21:07]  Recently, an explosive interview Casey Anthony gave to the Associated Press has reignited interest in this case.
[00:21:14]  To your understanding, how did she die?
[00:21:16]  I don't know.
[00:21:17]  You don't know?
[00:21:18]  Something about drowning, possibly.
[00:21:20]  Everyone else has their theories.
[00:21:23]  I don't know.
[00:21:24]  Casey's daughter, Kaylee Marie, was last seen June 16, 2008.
[00:21:29]  But she wasn't reported missing until July 15, when Kaylee's grandmother called police.
[00:21:37]  I have a three-year-old that's been missing for a month.
[00:21:40]  A three-year-old?
[00:21:41]  Yes.
[00:21:42]  Three months later, Casey Anthony was charged with first-degree murder, aggravated child abuse, aggravated manslaughter of a child, and providing false information to police.
[00:21:53]  Then, a bombshell.
[00:21:56]  Two months after she was charged, little Kaylee's skeletal remains were discovered in a nearby wooded lot.
[00:22:03]  Prosecutors alleged Casey used chloroform to render her daughter unconscious and then duct taped her mouth and nose to suffocate her.
[00:22:12]  Three pieces of duct tape covering her nose and mouth.
[00:22:18]  The trial stretched to more than six weeks and featured allegations of sexual abuse, questions regarding Casey Anthony's competence, and various theories on what happened.
[00:22:28]  But the prosecutors had one bottom line Kaylee Anthony was murdered by her mother, Casey Anthony.
[00:22:40]  Then, in 2011, With just 10 hours of deliberation, a shocking and controversial verdict.
[00:22:47]  We, the jury, find the defendant not guilty.
[00:22:50]  The jury acquitted Casey Anthony in the murder of her daughter.
[00:22:54]  The trial was over, but the case remains far from closed.
[00:23:00]  Nancy Grace is here.
[00:23:01]  She's reported on the Casey Anthony case since day one.
[00:23:05]  For three years, you focused your life on this show, on this case.

=== Evidence Remains Far From Closed (08:51) ===

[00:23:10]  Why?
[00:23:10]  What drew you to it?
[00:23:11]  You know, Dr. Oz, even now, when I look at a picture of Kelly and those big brown eyes and that soft brown caramel colored hair, it just looks like she's saying, Help me.
[00:23:26]  That's just what it said to me.
[00:23:28]  And, you know, I had children late in life, a boy and a girl, and At two years old, Kelly's age, they are so helpless and it's so easy to take advantage of them and to think.
[00:23:44]  I mean, I remember I had John David and Lucy in Babies Are Us.
[00:23:48]  It was a big, like a superstore.
[00:23:50]  And some mom had come up to me and told me I needed to be using organic sunscreen.
[00:23:56]  I'm like, okay, so I go and I'm all the way down on the bottom shelf looking for this.
[00:24:02]  And I turn around and John David was gone.
[00:24:05]  Just like that.
[00:24:05]  And you know, I immediately thought of Adam Walsh because he got away in the store.
[00:24:10]  Okay, so I immediately grabbed Lucy and screamed, My baby's gone!
[00:24:16]  Lockdown!
[00:24:17]  And they locked it down.
[00:24:19]  They did.
[00:24:19]  And sure enough, he was two aisles away playing with the ball.
[00:24:23]  Okay, but what did she do?
[00:24:25]  Nothing!
[00:24:26]  She went out and basically moved in with her lover.
[00:24:31]  She partied every single night.
[00:24:33]  She used forged checks to buy push up bras and booze at Target.
[00:24:38]  Walmart caught on video, but most importantly, did not tell a single soul her baby was missing.
[00:24:45]  I mean, and that to me bespoke of she killed the baby.
[00:24:52]  And then to find out that the baby's body has been thrown away in a trash bag, like she's trash, double bagged, about nine houses from the Anthony home, and every day she would ride by that in her car.
[00:25:09]  And did she ever think that animals were out there tearing her baby's flesh apart?
[00:25:15]  Neighborhood dogs, foxes, possums?
[00:25:17]  I mean, how do you live like that?
[00:25:20]  And it was just recently she had her lawyers tell a jury that the baby died in a pool, and her father, an ex cop, instead of calling 911 or trying to save the baby, went, oh, let's put the baby in a trash bag and throw her away for the animals to tear apart.
[00:25:35]  She just told a jury that.
[00:25:37]  But now she forgot.
[00:25:39]  How could she forget how her baby died?
[00:25:42]  Well, as you were watching that tape package, you said they still hit you like a ton of bricks when you realized she was acquitted.
[00:25:47]  So, for whatever reason, people, average people on that jury somehow didn't get it.
[00:25:53]  I think I know why.
[00:25:53]  I think I know why people are so affected because it's so hard to take in that a mother would do that to their little baby.
[00:26:00]  And you know, Cindy and George Anthony, they wanted to take care of the baby, but oh no, Totmom would not let her mother have the baby.
[00:26:10]  Oh no, nothing would do.
[00:26:13]  So the baby ended up dead instead of Cindy getting to raise the baby.
[00:26:17]  Let me share a little bit more here.
[00:26:19]  Casey Anthony's defense attorneys maintain that Kaylee was not murdered at all.
[00:26:23]  During the trial's opening statements, Casey's attorney suggested that her father, George Anthony, you just mentioned him, the grandfather, had something to do with it.
[00:26:31]  Take a look.
[00:26:33]  Kaylee Anthony died on June 16, 2008, when she drowned in her family's swimming pool.
[00:26:39]  She saw George Anthony holding Kaylee in his arms.
[00:26:44]  She immediately grabbed Kaylee and began to cry.
[00:26:50]  You don't buy it, do you?
[00:26:51]  Not for one minute, because I met with George and Cindy during all this, and I know they must have just hated me because I was publicly saying, She did it.
[00:27:03]  Casey Anthony, Tottenham, did it, and that's their daughter.
[00:27:06]  They could not have been more kind and more gracious to me and more polite.
[00:27:12]  And the TV cameras always showed this clip of George Anthony screaming at the media that were getting in his front yard.
[00:27:18]  I mean, think about it.
[00:27:19]  Kaylee was gone.
[00:27:21]  His daughter was under suspicion.
[00:27:23]  His whole life is falling apart.
[00:27:26]  Yeah, he screamed at the media.
[00:27:28]  I would scream at them too.
[00:27:30]  Just so full of rage and anger about what had happened.
[00:27:34]  I don't blame him for a minute and not for one second do I believe that George Anthony molested his daughter.
[00:27:41]  I don't believe that for one minute.
[00:27:43]  All right, so let's get into what may have happened.
[00:27:46]  So the prosecution's case was that Casey Anthony used chloroform.
[00:27:51]  Now, chloroform looks like this, everybody.
[00:27:52]  Don't open it, Dr. Oz.
[00:27:54]  I'm not going to open it, I promise you.
[00:27:55]  No one should be exposed to it.
[00:27:57]  They argued that Kaylee Anthony was.
[00:28:00]  This stuff is pretty toxic.
[00:28:01]  It rendered Kaylee unconscious, they allege.
[00:28:06]  Then they put duct tape, or Casey put duct tape over her daughter's face and suffocated her.
[00:28:11]  And this stuff is colorless.
[00:28:12]  It's very sweet smelling, highly dangerous because in low doses you get a little lethargic, a little disoriented, feel tired.
[00:28:18]  In large doses, it quickly makes you unconscious.
[00:28:21]  You feel no pain, but you also don't breathe because it's the discomfort of suffocating that makes you breathe.
[00:28:27]  Eventually, when you're paralyzed, you can't move.
[00:28:29]  How about your Oz?
[00:28:30]  Have you ever gone on your personal computer and looked up, how do I make homemade chloroform?
[00:28:37]  What?
[00:28:38]  Neck breaking, home access.
[00:28:40]  That's what they found on the home computer.
[00:28:43]  Homemade chloroform.
[00:28:44]  Homemade.
[00:28:44]  How do you make chloroform?
[00:28:46]  And then in Tot Mom's trunk, there were traces of chloroform in the trunk.
[00:28:51]  I mean, what more do you want?
[00:28:52]  So let's get to these bits of evidence.
[00:28:54]  This is the part of it that I don't understand, because as a doctor, scientist, I would think some of these are pretty complaining.
[00:28:58]  Come on over here.
[00:28:59]  We're joined by Detective Derek Levasser, who's an expert in this area.
[00:29:04]  He's worked on cases of this nature, challenging cases, for the last 13 years.
[00:29:09]  You've got some evidence that you want to share with us.
[00:29:12]  This is evidence in theory the jury saw as well.
[00:29:14]  So, first, let's describe the scene where the body was found.
[00:29:18]  Yeah, there's a couple things that stand out to me here.
[00:29:20]  First off, let's point out the fact that Kaylee was found less than a half a mile away from where Casey Anthony resided at the time.
[00:29:26]  So, the mystery killer went and dumped the baby right by Top Mom's house.
[00:29:29]  Exactly.
[00:29:30]  So, this is where the body's found?
[00:29:32]  Correct.
[00:29:33]  And the residence would be right away.
[00:29:34]  So, just down the street.
[00:29:35]  So, I had counted it out.
[00:29:36]  At one point, I counted out, I think, nine or 10 houses.
[00:29:40]  From the Anthony home.
[00:29:41]  Exactly.
[00:29:41]  So, the other interesting thing about the location is Kaylee was found only steps away from the roadway.
[00:29:46]  So, what it indicates to me is that whoever dropped her body there was extremely concerned about being seen by a passerby, either their vehicle or themselves, which caused them not to take the body deeper into the woods, which ideally, if you didn't want it to be discovered, that's where you would go.
[00:29:59]  They were in a rush.
[00:30:00]  That's why they were right along the roadway.
[00:30:01]  Now, the body, if I understand correctly, was pretty decomposed.
[00:30:05]  That's just for everybody.
[00:30:06]  It usually takes about two years for a body to decompose down to bones.
[00:30:09]  Right.
[00:30:09]  Things can accelerate that bad weather, animals.
[00:30:12]  You're mentioning there may have been.
[00:30:13]  Wait, wait, wait.
[00:30:13]  Let's not put perfume on the pig.
[00:30:16]  When you say animals, that means animals tore that child's body apart.
[00:30:22]  Neighborhood dogs, foxes, possums, whatever, tore the baby's body apart.
[00:30:29]  200 plus bones had to be put back together that was scattered all in those woods.
[00:30:35]  Is that how decomposed it was?
[00:30:36]  Yeah, the body was badly decomposed.
[00:30:37]  It was mostly skeletal remains.
[00:30:39]  But one interesting thing about Kaylee's body, when the forensic entomologist actually testified at court, He stated that the insects associated with decomposition, also referred to as coffin flies, were actually found in the trunk of Casey Anthony's vehicle.
[00:30:52]  Is this the trunk here?
[00:30:53]  Yes, this is the trunk right here.
[00:30:54]  Exactly.
[00:30:55]  So essentially, what he said was whatever attracted these flies to this trunk had to have been there for at least three to five days, and that would be indicative of the vehicle conditions.
[00:31:04]  They also had a cadaver dog come in, and he also picked up on a scent of human decomposition as well.
[00:31:10]  So there was a lot of incriminating evidence against Casey.
[00:31:13]  Did they find chloroform scents here at all?
[00:31:15]  They did.
[00:31:15]  They actually did an air sample test.
[00:31:18]  And they hit on that.
[00:31:19]  Chloroform, basically maggot flies.
[00:31:23]  That's the coffin flies.
[00:31:24]  Coffin flies.
[00:31:24]  Correct.
[00:31:25]  In the car.
[00:31:25]  So let me ask you I'm the doc, but you're the lawyer, right?
[00:31:29]  How is this possible?
[00:31:29]  We have evidence that's pretty compelling just geographically.
[00:31:33]  We have in the trunk of the car evidence that there was perhaps a dead child in there with enough clues that there may have been chloroform involved.
[00:31:41]  So how come people can't put these pieces together?
[00:31:43]  I don't know.
[00:31:44]  I think that the case got so bogged down in the science.
[00:31:48]  Of the medical examiner and the coffin flies, that everybody lost sight of the fact.
[00:31:54]  It's really simple.
[00:31:55]  She had a baby.
[00:31:56]  Her baby's gone 31 days.
[00:31:58]  The grandma finds out and calls 911.

=== Truth About Chloroform Flies (08:55) ===

[00:32:01]  And the whole time she's been lying one lie after the next, after the next, after the next.
[00:32:06]  From a fake job at Universal.
[00:32:08]  She was sitting at home on the sofa eating chips, telling her parents she was working at Universal every day.
[00:32:14]  Her whole life was a lie.
[00:32:15]  Why would she not lie about Kelly?
[00:32:18]  So, what was she convicted of finally?
[00:32:21]  It's laughable.
[00:32:22]  The jury convicted her of lying to police because she lied through her teeth about her job at Universal, where she was, everything.
[00:32:31]  She lied about everything.
[00:32:33]  I mean, wouldn't you expect a mom to be screaming to the neighborhood, running from door to door?
[00:32:39]  That's what George and Cindy Anthony did.
[00:32:42]  As a father of two kids, I can't agree with you more.
[00:32:44]  Yeah.
[00:32:44]  All right, they're being called the Casey Anthony takes.
[00:32:47]  Now she's speaking out.
[00:32:48]  How does Nancy Grace respond to the woman who's been called the most hated mom in America?
[00:32:53]  Find out next.
[00:32:58]  Next, we listen in on the baffling interview between Casey and the Associated Press.
[00:33:03]  Her story is so full of holes, still lying.
[00:33:07]  What did she say when asked about?
[00:33:08]  Kaylee's disappearance.
[00:33:09]  Plus, a startling look into Casey Anthony's life today.
[00:33:18]  It's been nearly six years since a jury acquitted Casey Anthony of murdering her daughter.
[00:33:23]  And in a series of interviews Casey recently did with the Associated Press, she continues to maintain her innocence.
[00:33:30]  It's just a blank spot.
[00:33:32]  What the hell happened?
[00:33:33]  It's not even that.
[00:33:34]  It's something that's outside of me that if I knew at this point.
[00:33:41]  If I knew what actually happened, I'd be able to fill in those blanks.
[00:33:46]  We are back with Nancy Grace.
[00:33:48]  So, you heard that Casey had spoken out in these interviews.
[00:33:51]  Well, let me tell you something, Dr. Oz.
[00:33:54]  Her story is so full of holes, still lying after all these years.
[00:33:59]  So, the Associated Press reporter who conducted the interview asked Casey, it's important, when she first realized something was wrong.
[00:34:08]  Please listen to her answer.
[00:34:10]  Give me the situation when things went wrong, when did things go wrong?
[00:34:14]  All of a sudden, it's like, where's Kaylee?
[00:34:16]  Like, is that how it went?
[00:34:18]  No.
[00:34:18]  What I remember is being in bed, my mom coming in before she left her work and saying goodbye to us, and then waking up several hours later.
[00:34:35]  Later in the morning.
[00:34:36]  Later in the morning.
[00:34:38]  Hour, two hours later, and not knowing where she was.
[00:34:41]  Don't you wish you knew what happened?
[00:34:43]  Absolutely.
[00:34:45]  What strikes you the most?
[00:34:46]  Really?
[00:34:47]  About what you just heard.
[00:34:48]  Number one, when your children are running around, you don't go to sleep.
[00:34:51]  Okay?
[00:34:52]  That's how they end up dead in a pond or out in the traffic, number one.
[00:34:55]  But number two, you wake up from a nap and you can't find your children?
[00:35:00]  Then why do you go snug up and sling up with your boyfriend for 31 days without calling police?
[00:35:05]  Why aren't you out in the neighborhood running from door to door going, Where's my baby?
[00:35:11]  Where is my baby?
[00:35:14]  She doesn't seem to care what people think about her.
[00:35:16]  She said that very explicitly.
[00:35:18]  In fact, she said her sleep at night is pretty good.
[00:35:22]  I'm quoting her pretty good at night.
[00:35:25]  That's how she said she sleeps.
[00:35:26]  I sleep pretty good at night, are her words.
[00:35:28]  I got to tell you something.
[00:35:30]  With all the mothers and the fathers that I have ever dealt with, thousands at this point in my life from prosecuting and covering, nobody loses a child.
[00:35:45]  I have people still calling me right now.
[00:35:47]  Their child disappeared in 1979 and was shot in 1976 with no resolution.
[00:35:53]  They still don't sleep.
[00:35:54]  They still dream about them.
[00:35:56]  I mean, my fiance was shot back in 79.
[00:35:59]  I don't think I've had one week of sleep.
[00:36:01]  One week goes by that I don't wake up thinking, what happened?
[00:36:06]  To say I slept pretty good at night.
[00:36:09]  You know, the other day, my son, John David, I've got twins, and he took the little lining out of his tennis shoe.
[00:36:16]  And he kept saying, Mom, my foot.
[00:36:17]  I'm like, You're fine.
[00:36:19]  Well, the other night I saw a little bruise on the bottom of his foot.
[00:36:23]  I said, What happened?
[00:36:24]  And he said, My tennis shoe did it.
[00:36:27]  That has bothered me ever since.
[00:36:29]  But for her, she sleeps pretty good at night.
[00:36:33]  Well, why isn't she looking for the real killer?
[00:36:35]  Why isn't she?
[00:36:37]  You think there'd be one moment's rest if someone took my child and I didn't know what happened?
[00:36:42]  It'd be all over.
[00:36:43]  All right, when we come back, what Casey hoped for her daughter if she were still alive, and what's life like now for Casey?
[00:36:50]  I'll find out what Nancy thinks, but she's going to reveal a shocking truth.
[00:36:53]  That's next.
[00:36:59]  Next, Casey Anthony's unusual response to what Kaylee would have been like today.
[00:37:04]  That's not exactly how I would describe my child.
[00:37:07]  It's so callous.
[00:37:08]  What's her relationship like now with her family since the accusations?
[00:37:12]  Plus, do you think we'll ever get the truth?
[00:37:15]  Big box doors are a shocker's dream.
[00:37:18]  How do you know what to really?
[00:37:20]  Bye.
[00:37:21]  We have insider tips to get the biggest bang for your buck.
[00:37:24]  It ends up being 40% less.
[00:37:26]  All nuance.
[00:37:27]  That's coming up tomorrow.
[00:37:30]  Haley would be 12 this year.
[00:37:33]  What would she be like right now?
[00:37:35]  A total bath.
[00:37:38]  I would like to think she'd be listening to classic rock and playing sports and not taking from anybody.
[00:37:46]  That's Casey Anthony speculating to an Associated Press reporter about what her daughter would be like today.
[00:37:52]  If she was still alive, I mean, I can watch you grimace as we listen to those comments.
[00:37:58]  What's going through your mind?
[00:38:02]  You know, when people ask me, what are the twins going to be?
[00:38:06]  A concert pianist or a teacher.
[00:38:09]  But to refer to my little girl as a badass, yeah, that's not exactly how I would describe my child.
[00:38:18]  Okay?
[00:38:19]  I just, it's so callous.
[00:38:21]  So you've been following Casey since she was discharged from prison.
[00:38:25]  What's going on in her life now?
[00:38:26]  Well, I know that she is reportedly slung up with an OJ defense investigator.
[00:38:34]  And she's not out looking for the real killer or trying to solve her daughter's death.
[00:38:40]  So, I mean, at this point, I don't know what I could say.
[00:38:45]  I don't want to judge her morally.
[00:38:47]  I'm coming from this strictly from a criminal law angle.
[00:38:52]  And she killed that child.
[00:38:55]  George and Cindy, her parents, what's her relationship like with them?
[00:38:59]  What do they think about her?
[00:39:00]  Well, she accused her father of molesting her at trial as somehow connected to the baby's disappearance, which nobody believed for one.
[00:39:09]  She had never told that to another person until suddenly her daughter goes missing, and bam, she accuses her father of molesting her and her brother of fondling her.
[00:39:19]  She had never said that in her life and then didn't take the stand to back it up.
[00:39:25]  That was just put out there in statements, argument to the jury.
[00:39:29]  And when I think of George Anthony, I remember him desperately looking for the baby.
[00:39:37]  Considering suicide, he was so bereft over the baby's disappearance.
[00:39:43]  And to say something like that about him, I mean, she just is dragging her own parents through the mud after they supported her all those years.
[00:39:51]  So they gave us a statement.
[00:39:52]  I want to read this to everybody.
[00:39:53]  This is from the attorney of George and Cindy Anthony.
[00:39:55]  They said their daughter forced them to return to a tragic time in their lives from which they had tried to move forward.
[00:40:01]  The statement also read in part that George, who was vindicated on multiple occasions, is once again forced to relive the hints, rumors, lies, and allegations that are being made by Casey Anthony.
[00:40:11]  So let's leave everyone with the big answer.
[00:40:14]  That they and I are looking for.
[00:40:16]  Do you think we'll ever get the truth about the death of that poor little girl, Kaylee Ann?
[00:40:21]  Well, I think I have the truth, and so do the prosecution.
[00:40:25]  They believe that Top Mom in some way killed her child, whether she was trying to make her sleep with chloroform and put her in the trunk so she could go out and party, whatever she did resulted in the death of that child.
[00:40:39]  But if you're expecting Top Mom Casey Anthony to tell you that, that's never going to happen, Oz.
[00:40:45]  God bless you.
[00:40:46]  Nancy Grace, always wonderful to have you here.
[00:40:48]  Be sure to check out Nancy's new website, crimeonline.com.
[00:40:52]  I'll be right back.

=== Seeking Kaylee Ann's Truth (01:42) ===

[00:40:57]  Big box stores are a shocker's dream.
[00:40:59]  But with thousands of money saving items, how do you know what to really buy?
[00:41:04]  We have insider tips to get the biggest bang for your buck.
[00:41:08]  It ends up being 40% less than what you would pay at a grocery store.
[00:41:11]  Big buys that are actually worth your money.
[00:41:14]  Then I'm going to show you how to double your groceries at no extra cost.
[00:41:18]  I love this because people don't think about this and nobody knows about this until I tell them.
[00:41:22]  All nuage.
[00:41:23]  That's coming up tomorrow.
[00:41:32]  On the next True Crime Tuesday, we reveal a hidden public health crisis that's going to make you angry.
[00:41:37]  We go inside the dark underground world of child sex trafficking.
[00:41:42]  One victim you're about to meet survived being abducted into sex slavery at just 15 years old.
[00:41:50]  I dropped her off at school that morning, like I always do, and expected to pick her up about 5 30 from trek practice.
[00:41:59]  Nicole's daughter, J.S., who is 15.
[00:42:02]  Are now among the 1.6 million homeless and runaway children in America.
[00:42:09]  Within hours of dropping off the radar, thousands of them will be sex trafficked, a polite term for being repeatedly raped.
[00:42:18]  These children, who were once visible on street corners, are now quickly, efficiently, and anonymously sold online.
[00:42:27]  Next week on True Crime Tuesday, you'll meet the young woman in that video in her first television interview.
[00:42:32]  Find out why she's speaking out and what she's doing so this doesn't happen to someone you love.
[00:42:37]  That's our show for today.
[00:42:38]  We'll see you next time.