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Sept. 26, 2023 - Dr. Oz Podcast
42:42
The Story Behind the Adoption Gone Wrong of Girl with Dwarfism | Dr. Oz | S11 | Ep 42 | Full Episode
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The Ukrainian adoption story that shocked the nation.
How old do you think she is?
In an exclusive, the people around her break their silence.
I just wonder if she's really an adult playing this game the whole time.
Plus, George and Cindy Anthony on the rumors.
How do you feel about Casey having more children?
And a potential reunion.
What would it take for her to come back?
Coming up next.
Season 11 starts now.
I became a doctor to help people heal.
Now I'm using the same science and medicine to take on true crime.
On today's True Crime, we have exclusive updates on the shocking case of Natalia Barnett.
Is the girl with dwarfism a 16-year-old who was abandoned by her adoptive parents?
Or is she actually a 30-year-old sociopath who pretended to be a child and tried to kill her family?
Today, I'm sitting down exclusively with two very different people who say they got to know Natalia well after her adoptive family moved to Canada and left her behind in Indiana.
What they have to say will definitely surprise you.
But first, take a look at the case that's making headlines around the world.
The Barnetts looked to be the picture-perfect family when they agreed to adopt a Ukrainian orphan named Natalia in 2010. Nine years later, their case has the nation gasping.
She was writing down on her notepad, not only am I trying to kill Christine, but I'm gonna kill the brothers too.
Here's how I'm gonna do it.
Here's what I'm going to do with their bodies.
In September, Michael and Christine Barnett, now divorced, were arrested and charged with felony neglect of a dependent.
They claimed they were the victims of an adoption scam.
And Natalia, who is a type of dwarfism and stands three feet tall, was really an adult pretending to be a child.
Christine turns her back to go to another room and get something.
By the time she returns, Natalia's already poured a whole bunch of pine salt into the coffee.
When confronted about it, it was a plain and simple matter-of-fact answer.
I'm trying to kill you.
In 2012, the Barnetts changed Natalia's birth record to say she was born in 1989, not 2003, as her Ukrainian records indicated.
This moved her legal age from 8 to 22. Then, in 2013, the family moved to Canada, leaving Natalia, legally an adult, in an apartment in Lafayette, Indiana.
With so many unanswered questions in this case, we sent investigative reporter Mara Schiavacampo to Indiana to try to uncover the truth about Natalia.
Is she an adult masquerading as a child, or a child victim of negligent adults?
Joining me now is Dr. Oshol investigative reporter, Marski Avocampo.
So many people around Lafayette, Indiana have a connection to this young woman, including folks who were on the crew with you shooting yesterday.
Yeah, we learned that during our shoot.
We found out that someone we were working with actually had a connection to this family.
Many years ago, this man's family went to church with the Barnetts, including Natalia, and his son, who was a child at the time, was in Sunday school with Natalia.
And here's what's really interesting.
All those years ago, well before this was a news story, his son told him she seems much older than the other kids at Sunday school.
She doesn't seem like a kid.
And this was years ago.
It's interesting they would have picked up on it because the kids will notice this kind of stuff.
Kids pick up on those things.
What stood out to you the most as you did your research into what happened to Natalia after she was left by the Barnetts?
Yeah, so we went to the apartment that was rented for her.
So the Barnetts rented her an apartment about 45 minutes away from where they had been living.
So first of all, you have to think that she was isolated there.
She was away from everything and everyone that she knew.
Secondly, and I'll be frank about this, this apartment was in a rough part of town.
I mean, we saw very compelling evidence of drug use just next door from the apartment that she would have been living in.
So you would think she's in a new place, a new environment alone, and a difficult environment, child or adult, that had to have been a difficult transition.
So in addition to Natalia's old neighborhood, Mara also went to where Natalia currently lives with a couple named Antoine and Cynthia Mance.
Take a look at what she uncovered.
Natalia reportedly lives here now with a local pastor, his wife, and their five children.
And the family clearly wants a lot of privacy.
We see no trespassing signs posted everywhere.
We spoke with a neighbor who says while she can't tell if Natalia is an adult or a child, the rumor in the neighborhood is that Natalia is actually an adult.
Have you seen Natalia?
Yes, I have.
I've seen her the other day.
She was walking up to her apartment, her house, and she had her little Hello Kitty backpack on, just walking happily.
Have you seen evidence of a disability beyond just her size?
She came out once and they had a walker.
Maybe she was having a bad day.
It was a walker or a wheelchair, but it looked more like a walker with a seat on it.
And she walked a little bit and then got on her walker.
And you mentioned the Hello Kitty backpack.
Does she dress like a child?
Yes.
It was children's outfits.
Does she seem happy?
Yeah, they seem like a happy family.
Mara, how surprised were you by what Natalia's neighbors told you?
You know, it's very surprising, this description that she's living as a child, she's wearing, you know, Hello Kitty clothes, but that a lot of people seem to believe what the Barnetts have been saying for years, that this is, in fact, an adult.
The other thing that I found interesting is this evidence of some kind of disability, that sometimes she has a walker, sometimes she has a wheelchair, so it suggests there are some physical limitations that maybe we haven't been aware of.
It would not make sense to me, and we've called around a libert orthopedic specialist, that if you had dwarfism, you'd be able to walk without assistance some days and need it as much as a walker on other days.
That part doesn't jive, but who knows what else might be going on with this woman or young girl.
Right.
Michael and Christine Barnett are set to go on trial January 28, 2020, but Mara was just inside the courtroom for a pretty important court hearing, and she sat down for an exclusive interview with Mike Barnett as soon as it ended.
Take a look.
Here at the Tippecanoe County Courthouse in Lafayette, Indiana, the judge heard arguments for and against the motion to dismiss charges of neglect of a dependent.
We sat down with Michael Barnett and his lawyer, Terrence Kennard, after the hearing.
From what happened today, I feel fantastic.
So what was the point of today's hearing?
We were asking the court to dismiss the charges against Michael Barnett.
We were alleging that the charges should not stand.
On the topic of age, I don't think I could feel stronger about our position legally.
From the position of, is she a disabled person requiring dependent care?
Right now, today, October 23rd, 2019, Natalia has never been ruled by a court to be so physically or mentally disabled that she's considered a permanent dependent of somebody.
And we feel very confident.
That these charges are going to be dismissed based upon that.
It's a very simple thing.
So you want them wiped out altogether?
I don't think they should have been brought in the first place.
Do you ever wonder about her, think about her?
Is there any of that kind of paternal affection still there for her?
Of course I do.
I type in her Facebook page.
I type in her YouTube.
I take a look at what she looks like, what she's doing.
Is she smiling?
Is she happy?
I've done that every couple of months or so, going back years.
So I look at some of those sites, and you know, her social media platform is there.
We're not going to show the images without her permission, because we have no idea how old she really is.
But I've seen the videos, and she does things that a kid would do.
Yeah, it's lighthearted, it's fun, it's silly, it's goofy, and it's kind of interesting that in the midst of all of this media attention, she seems to be trying to move forward.
Since being evicted from her last apartment, Natalia has been living with a new family, Antoine and Cynthia Manns.
Cynthia Manns' brother will be here today.
His reasons for breaking his silence will surprise you.
But coming up first, I'm sitting down with Natalia's recent pastor for an exclusive interview.
He's also well-known to his community, and he knows Natalia very well.
He's going to reveal how old he thinks she really is.
Lots more to come.
Stay with us.
This November on Oz. - November on Oz.
George Anthony, will he reunite with Casey?
Natalie Wood's death, what does her boat captain know?
Robert Wagner was in that jealous rage.
Dog the Bounty Hunter, a medical intervention to save his life.
This is my warning.
The health crisis that hit the Ozmans.
Why me?
Plus, could your microwave be causing you cancer?
All November on Oz.
While at the stress center, she was documenting, she was telling doctors, she was telling therapists, she was writing down on her notepad, not only am I trying to kill Christine, but I'm going to kill the brothers too.
Here's how I'm going to do it.
Here's what I'm going to do with their bodies.
That was Michael Barnett describing the homicidal behavior he says his adopted daughter Natalia exhibited when she was still in his care.
In 2012, Natalia's birth year was legally altered from 2003 to 1989, which changed her age from 8 to 22 years old.
And then in 2013, the Barnetts moved to Canada so their 15-year-old son could attend the university there, leaving Natalia behind in an apartment.
Michael Barnett and his ex-wife Christine were arrested in September and now face charges of felony neglect of a dependent.
But since being evicted from her apartment, Natalia has been living with a new family, Antoine and Cynthia Mance, and has attended the church of Pastor Stephen Thomas Lee, who joins us exclusively now.
Pastor Stephen, thank you for joining us.
It's an honor to be here.
So when the Mance first brought Natalia to your congregation, what did you think of her?
You know, I immediately observed a very kind-hearted individual, soft-spoken.
I could tell that she was very appreciative to be involved in a community of people that believed.
Did you have an idea of how old you thought she was without anyone saying anything, just eyeballing her?
I would say mid to later 20s.
If I was to guess.
And she was involved with your church in many ways for several years.
She's part of the youth group, for example.
Did her age come up with any of the other members of the congregation?
You know, no one openly spoke of any questioning about her age because she was so involved, very engaging, just a sweet spirit.
You know, if anyone had any questions, they really kept it private.
Why do you think there was confusion about her age?
I know just from the interviews that we've done, people look at different parts of Natalia and come up with different conclusions.
You say it's mid to late 20s.
What makes you think that versus older versus younger?
Just her intellectual conversation.
But at the same time, she was very comfortable with the youth department as well.
So I think that there's a variety of reasons why she could be looked at from different perspectives.
Since you had an opportunity to watch or interact with young people in the congregation, older folks yourself, did you ever see any evidence of bizarre behavior, any evidence of violence from Natalia?
None whatsoever.
She always exhibited herself in a very positive light, very kind-hearted, hospitable, very courteous.
She showed absolutely no vibes at all of any type of anger or aggression.
Do you know much about her time alone, what she was doing when she, from what I could tell from Morris Cabocampo, was she was living in a fairly rough part of town?
You know, I think that the months that she was alone, she did extraordinarily well compared to what anyone may have thought.
But even that being said, with the challenges of dwarfism, she certainly needed some assistance.
And so I think that she deserves an applause for just the fact that she was able to have a sustainment of living.
So if I understand correctly, the Mons family has moved into your parsonage, right, to the house adjacent to the church?
Yes.
Is that correct?
And he's now an ordained minister?
Yes.
The father, Antoine, so he's going to be leading his congregation.
Yeah, yes sir.
When was the last time you saw Natalia?
I gather she's still pretty close physically.
Yeah, about a month ago, even though they have started their own ministry.
They came to our youth lock-in we had, where the youth gathered and just had a great time, a fellowship, a recreation, and she was there and had a wonderful time.
She was in good spirits.
Yes.
It's remarkable that you can weather all this.
Yeah.
So, Natalia's experiences in your congregation, I am told are reflective of the kind of experience that you believe you can offer, especially young people.
As a man of the cloth, your thoughts on faith and our lives?
Yeah, the Bible says, whosoever will, let him come and drink from the water of life freely.
We believe that regardless of one's someone's past, their background, ethnicity, gender, it doesn't matter what they've went through in their life.
The very moment they exercise their faith in Jesus Christ, they are welcome to develop a relationship with Him.
We believe in the salvation message, Acts 2.38, repenting, being baptized in Jesus' name, being filled with the gift of the Holy Ghost, and living a holy and upright life before the Lord.
Bless you for all you do and the leadership you've given to your community.
Thank you, sir.
We're going to have more information on Pastor Stephen's church on dros.com, so you can check it out.
We'll be right back.
Coming up, Cynthia Mann's brother is here to break his silence about Natalia.
He'll reveal why he feels it's so important to speak out and how Natalia is doing today.
Is Natalia even Ukrainian?
Natalia, the time we got her, was in this country for 18 months.
Not a hint of an accent.
She didn't speak a word of Ukrainian.
She can't describe the place she lived in the Ukraine.
I would say no.
That was Michael Barnett claiming his adopted daughter with dwarfism may not even be Ukrainian.
When he and his then-wife Christine Barnett adopted Natalia in 2010, they were told she was a six-year-old from the Ukraine.
But they now insist she's an adult.
In 2012, Natalia's age was officially changed from 8 to 22, so she is now legally 30. In 2013, the Barnett's moved to Canada, leaving Natalia behind in Indiana.
They now face charges of neglect of a dependent.
After living on her own for a period of time, Natalia moved in with Antoine and Cynthia Mance, who unsuccessfully tried to get her birth year changed from 1989 back to 2003. We're joined now exclusively by Cynthia's brother, Will.
And I thank you for coming to the show today.
No problem.
Nice to meet you.
Let's just comment on Michael Barnett's statement that he didn't think Natalia had an accent.
Is that your thoughts about your sister's daughter?
Yeah, she doesn't have an accent.
Not a Ukrainian accent, no.
Does she sound American when you hear her?
American as we do, yeah.
And you've had a chance to spend some time with Natalia?
Yeah, sometimes.
During those interactions, have you ever questioned whether her age at the time being 12, 13, 14, 15 was accurate?
No, not because we were introduced to her as a child, so...
We didn't question it.
I mean, there was questions earlier on just, you know, because of her handicap, things like that, but not, I mean, we were introduced to her as a kid, and that's what we looked at her as.
If you looked at her vocabulary, for example, Pastor Stevens was out here earlier and thought she had the vocabulary of someone who was in their mid to late 20s.
Would you agree with that?
She's got a good vocabulary.
Yeah, definitely.
I mean, a little intriguing.
How old do you think she is?
That's hard to say.
I would say probably 16 to 20 somewhere.
I mean, just because I can't pinpoint it and, you know, with everything else going on kind of changes your mind, you know, or plays with your mind.
When you heard the accusations that she had shown signs of potential violence with her prior adopted family, did that concern you?
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Just, you know, for the safety of my sister and husband and other kids, for sure.
I mean, definitely scary and something that we talked about.
So your sister, in addition to adopting Natalia, has a biologic child of her own.
Is that four other adopted kids?
Is that right?
Yes.
So since this story has broken, there's been speculation that money plays a role in these adoptions.
Okay.
And I know that came up when you talked with my producers as well.
What are your thoughts around that?
I don't want to speculate.
I mean, I hope that she's got the right bone in her body to give these kids the best possible life that they deserve coming from their circumstances and with their circumstances that were given to them, dealt to them.
I hope that it's all for the right reason, every bit of it.
Only time will tell that.
Is it possible the speculation is accurate and the money does play a role?
Well, I mean, anything's possible, but I can't.
I can't speculate, me personally.
Does she have a job?
I don't think she's working currently.
I don't think so.
How many kids do you have?
Four.
Four.
Do you have a job?
Yes, sir.
Is it hard to make ends meet?
Yes, sir.
You think it's a problem that your sister has four kids and she didn't have a job?
Yeah, I would say.
If she wanted to adopt another child, what would you tell her?
Probably wouldn't be a good idea.
So what has your sister said to you to explain what's going down?
She says that she's a kid, that she's a kid, and that she's had medical tests done to prove that, and that everything will play itself out when the time's right.
And that's kind of where everyone's at with it, just waiting to hear.
Do you think it's been an increased hardship on the other kids in the family?
I would imagine.
I would imagine.
You know, going from a quiet family, no one knows anything about you, to, I mean, it's like worldwide, you know, from what you see on the internet.
A lot of people are intrigued by it, to say the least.
Why do you think your sister invited that into her life?
Her heart.
I mean, her heart, she's got a great heart, big heart, and I think, you know, she wants the best.
Her intentions are definitely that.
I mean, where it ends up, you know, time will only tell, but her intentions are definitely in the right place.
Her heart is.
Do you know if she gets any financial support for having the kids?
I don't know.
I personally don't know.
So there's also discussion about Natalia's age being changed back.
And your sister took the time to try to do that.
Yes.
Have you asked your sister about why they were unsuccessful?
She didn't really say.
Just said that it would all come out when the time was right.
If her age is actually what the law says it is.
How is your sister going to deal with that?
Wow.
I would imagine it to be a heartbreaker, to say the least.
And yeah, I wonder myself how she's going to take that if it does come out.
You know, is it...
You know, what happens from there?
You know, does she feel like she's been, you know, deceived?
What, you know, where would you go from there?
I mean, I ask myself that.
Like, you know, what happens next?
Do you just cut her off?
Is there a conversation to be had?
Like, do you feel, you know, like I said, you were deceived?
And then the closeness with the other, like, this is a huge thing.
You know, there's four other kids involved.
So I just wonder myself what the outcome would be if it comes out that she's really an adult and that she's been, you know, playing this game the whole time.
Could you make sense of her age being 30?
Is that possible in your mind?
After hearing everything, my judgment's definitely been affected.
I couldn't say that I would be 1000% surprised if it came out that she was.
I mean, but, yeah, it would be crazy.
It would be crazy if she is.
I understand Natalia's had some difficulty with all the international exposure.
Yeah, absolutely.
What has that been like for her?
I could imagine it being hard.
I mean, you know, from what I hear, it's been a lot on the whole family.
I mean, you know, they went from just a nice, quiet family that no one knew to a total circus, you know, with the media and everyone just gravitating towards it.
I mean, it's not a normal life at this point, that's for sure.
I suspect it dominates your family reunions.
Oh yeah, I can imagine.
Yeah, for sure, as you can imagine.
Thank you for coming on the show.
No, not a problem.
We'll be right back.
Up next, Casey Anthony was labeled the most hated mom in America after she was acquitted in the 2008 murder trial of her two-year-old daughter, Kaylee.
We have an all-new exclusive with her parents, George and Cindy, one year after George's near-fatal accident.
and after learning Casey might be thinking about having another baby.
George and Cindy Anthony are arguably the most tormented couple in modern America.
In 2011, the public labeled their daughter, Casey Anthony, the most hated mom in America, after she was acquitted in the 2008 murder trial of her two-year-old daughter, Kaylee.
Last year, when I heard George had suffered a near-fatal car accident, I flew to their home in Florida to check in on them.
Now, months later, the Anthony's are back with us in a new daytime exclusive interview, opening up about Georgia's long road to recovery and where they now stand with Casey Anthony.
Take a look.
Casey Anthony.
Some consider her the most notorious and hated mother in modern memory, accused of murdering her two-year-old daughter, Kaylee.
On July 15, 2008, Casey's own mother called police to report her granddaughter had been missing for 31 days.
There's something wrong.
I found my daughter's car today, and it smells like there's been a dead body in a damn car.
Okay, what is the three-year-old's name?
Kaylee.
C-A-Y-L-E-E. Answer me.
Casey Anthony was arrested for suspected child abuse the next day.
She later revealed that Kaylee had drowned in her grandparents' pool.
Five months later, authorities announced that remains identified as Kaylee Anthony had been found in a wooded area near the family home.
Casey Anthony was charged and tried for murder, but after just 33 days in court, the jury returned a stunning verdict.
Did the jury find the defendant not guilty?
Being sentenced to just four years in prison for lying to authorities, many believe she may have gotten away with murder.
Casey's parents, George and Cindy Anthony, still grieving the loss of their beloved granddaughter, came on our show to talk through their complicated feelings about their daughter's freedom.
She needs to just not be here anymore.
She doesn't need to exist anymore, as far as I'm concerned.
George also spoke about his immense personal guilt over Kaylee's disappearance.
Till this day, I still hold myself responsible for not finding Kaylee.
I took almost a complete bottle of these 60 pills of Paxil.
I took some other muscle relaxers and stuff.
I just don't want to be around anymore.
I wanted to be with her.
She meant the world to me.
And just weeks after George revealed on our show that he attempted suicide, the unthinkable happened.
George Anthony was in a car accident that nearly took his life.
Anthony hurt in a crash on I-4.
Well, I just saw Cindy Anthony outside her home.
She did not want to talk about the accident.
But George and Cindy Anthony did invite us into their home to share what they were going through.
How are you?
Hi, Dr. Oz.
You look better than I expected.
Thank you.
Examining George, it wasn't just his physical health that worried me.
I was also extremely concerned about his emotional state.
You know, I just disrupted our lives.
I can't.
The last time I saw George Anthony, I reviewed all of his x-rays, and what I saw startled me.
The injuries he had, they were absolutely devastating.
And I'll just show you an example.
This is the neck.
George's neck.
Everyone feel that big bone in the back of your neck?
That's this bone right here.
That's the level where these injuries are.
And these are two screws that are holding a plate in place, because all these vertebrae were crushed.
This part of his spine up in his neck was crushed, which is a catastrophic problem.
It compressed the cord, which means that you won't be able to move anything, and that can sometimes be completely irreversible.
Now going into surgery, George was told, It could lead to paralysis, because when you put these plates and screws in there, you can muck up that area, that cord, and it creates a vegetative state, even death.
The surgeon said very clearly, there were no guarantees.
But George and Cindy are here today, and I'm happy to report that George has made a significant recovery.
I thank you both for joining me.
Thank you so much for inviting us.
Thank you.
When we were down at your home, I didn't even know what to tell you about prognosis.
How has the recovery been for you?
Recovery has been very...
I've managed a lot of things very quickly that I didn't think I'd have a chance to be able to do.
I'm having a really shaky day today, not because I'm nervous to be here to see you or anyone else, but I have a lot of emotional days because I'm trying to get back to what I was at one time.
Well, if I can just show this to everybody.
Let's put both your hands here.
You'll notice this muscle is nice and big on you.
And everyone can do this.
Everyone open their hands up.
You'll see there's a little bit of muscle between your thumb and your index finger.
There's nothing here.
It's empty.
And that muscle wasting is because the nerve going there isn't firing the muscle so the muscle can't move.
True.
Because if your leg is in a cast for a long time, the muscle melts away.
And this is again reflective and I think why you're trembling right now just holding that because The incomplete connection between the muscles and your brain are causing a little bit of that misfiring, that short-circuiting.
Absolutely.
Cindy, you've become a caregiver.
Yes.
How has that been?
That's an additional burden on you.
You know, it's something that we have to work on together every day.
And this is a lot of hard work, a lot of therapy.
So we're hoping that we still have another year and a month that we'll see some improvement.
We may not, but we're hoping that we will.
When you were on the show last time, you were very open.
I appreciate your honesty about the fact that you had thought about it and then attempted suicide.
After learning of Kaylee's death, how has your recovery been changed?
How has your mental health been affected by that additional injury on top of everything else?
An injury that doesn't get better that quickly, if at all.
Geez.
Mentally, it's a struggle every single day because I'm not remembering just some of the simplest things there are for me to remember.
And how does it affect your depression, your anxiety, the emotional nobility, ups and downs that you had anyway?
Cindy will tell you, I get very frustrated very quickly.
Well, early on, I noticed that he was getting more and more depressed.
And there were days that he threatened to end his life, and there were days that I was terrified to leave him alone.
I mean, in the beginning, I didn't leave him alone.
So the hardest thing for me is when he talks about, you'd be better off without me.
And that's the thing that's hard to deal with.
Did you feel that Cindy would be better off without you?
Oh, most definitely.
I don't feel that way now.
These last few months has curtailed back my feelings about ending my life.
Because I know that I have more to give to her and hopefully to somebody else someday.
I don't have those feelings about walking out in front of a car or jumping off a building or anything like that.
Because there's more to me than just What we've been through and there's going to be a lot more hopefully to give somewhere down the road somehow to make somebody else happy or to realize depression and or suicide you're running away from your life you're going to be hurting people that are in your life and I think with marriage you need to let your partner in all the way and how you feel be honest with them and I've had a hard time being honest with her Up next we're going to hear details on
where their relationship stands with Casey and what they think about the idea of her having another baby because it's come up.
Stay with us. - Natalie Wood's death.
An Oz exclusive.
Her boat captain reveals never before her details.
Robert Wagner was in that jealous rage.
All new Oz.
That's coming up on Tuesday.
We're back with George and Cindy Anthony in a new daytime exclusive interview discussing where they stand on forgiveness.
Back in 2008 their daughter Casey Anthony was charged and later acquitted of murdering her two-year-old daughter Kaylee.
The death of their granddaughter Kaylee devastated George and Cindy and since her acquittal in 2011 they have been estranged from Casey.
So Cindy after the accident what type of contact did you have with your daughter?
Well, the day of the accident, I did leave a message on her voicemail.
Didn't get to speak with her.
And I got a phone call while I was trying to get some stuff together, and it was from her.
And she's pretty much saying, you know, thanks a lot, Mom, for not telling me.
And I had to hear it from someone else that Dad...
You know, was in a bad car accident.
I said, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait a minute.
If you had checked your phone, I did call you.
If you blocked me, that's your own damn fault.
And I'm, you know, I don't need this.
And I pretty much cut her off.
I said, your dad's laying up in the hospital trying to recover from being totally paralyzed.
We almost lost your father.
Everybody says it's a miracle that he didn't lose his life in the accident.
And we really hadn't talked after that.
George, we talked about the feelings that all fathers have towards their daughters, no matter what went down.
That's true.
You took the time to craft a letter for her.
Did you send it?
Yes, I did.
I just wanted to let her know how I felt, how this has taken a big toll on her mom, and knowing that I never know what's going to happen from now on with me, with her.
I know of one thing I did say to her.
I would love to see you, and I would love...
For mom to know where you're at, how you're doing.
I said, Casey, no matter what, I'm still your dad, and I love you.
And that was hard for me, but I needed to get that from me, because you can't move on if you keep on holding all these things inside.
You need to express yourself.
Even though what she's done to Kaylee, to her and I, or anyone else, I just wanted her to know that I was ready to forgive her, or at least I wanted to see her and talk to her.
No matter if it was an hour, five minutes, or whatever, I just wanted to just see her.
I miss a hug from her.
And those hugs that I got from her, they mean the most.
I was surprised to hear you use the word forgive.
Why did you change your mind from that?
Well, none of us have a guarantee how long we're going to be alive.
Some of us could walk out today and drop as a heart attack or just not be anymore.
I just wanted to see her because I don't know how much longer I have.
So Casey's now 33 years old.
Her name is back in the headlines once again.
I know you're watching this all happen as it unfolds.
This time rumors are swirling that Casey's apparently planning to have another baby as her biological clock is ticking.
Those are her words.
Allegedly.
How do you feel about becoming grandparents again, about Casey having more children?
Well, number one is I wouldn't ever compare another child To Kayleigh.
That's impossible.
That's a great question, but it's hard for me to answer right now.
Would your daughter Casey be a better mother this time around, in your opinion?
Wow.
I think she was a good mom from the beginning, period, before all this stuff happened with Kayleigh.
I think she was a good mom the first time.
I'm not sure.
I don't think those rumors are true.
She just really didn't feel like she wanted to bring another child into this world because of the things that go on.
I think if she found the right person To settle down with.
I don't think she'd have a child on her own.
So unless she has someone in her life that that's what they want together, God bless them.
And if that's what they want, I'll be happy for her.
You both said you think your daughter was a good mother.
Without getting into a lot of detail, what happened?
You think it was an accident with Kaylee?
Well, I believe it's an accident.
I think she just panicked, and I think it just snowballed into a big mess.
And I don't know what happened that day.
George?
I have to agree with Cindy.
I mean, up until the time that I didn't see Kaylee again, I had my own feelings, my own thoughts, because there were things shown to me differently than what Cindy was told.
And I personally think...
And the Orange County Sheriff's Department told me that she could have been over-medicated, she could have been given something, just go to sleep and not wake up.
Cindy doesn't want to believe that.
Well, they pitted you against me.
There was nothing in the autopsy.
There was nothing shown.
There was no evidence that anybody found pills or chloroform or anything like that.
That was all their theory.
And in the beginning, they knew you were the weakest one that they could turn against Casey.
And they needed someone on their side.
And that's what happened.
But I know what I feel in my heart.
And I know Kaylee never showed signs of any being drugged or anything like that.
So I think she drowned in the pool.
That's what I was told a week before the trial started.
In front of three of her attorneys, they pulled me into the office and told me that that's what happened, that she wanted me to know.
And she panicked.
That was my first instinct in the beginning, because the pool ladder was on.
It shouldn't have been on.
The gate was open.
Things weren't in the right spot.
It was all around the pole.
Just to remind our audience, although the nation was shocked when Casey Anthony walked free in 2011, she has been acquitted of Kaylee's murder and is no longer a person of interest in her daughter's death.
Up next, what does the future hold for the Anthonys?
And what will it take for George and Cindy to make peace with their infamous daughter?
That's next.
The Chicken Sandwich Wars.
Which one is the best?
We go bun to bun with insider tasting.
Mmm.
And getting your hands on your fast food fave.
Where have you been all of my life?
Emotional support animals.
Have you gone too far?
All new Oz.
That's coming up tomorrow.
We're back with George and Cindy Anthony continuing our exclusive on George's Road to Recovery after his near-fatal accident last year and the peace they hope to find with their infamous daughter, Casey Anthony, who was acquitted in 2011 of murdering her two-year-old daughter, Kaylee.
Now, since then, George and Cindy have had hardly any contact with their daughter.
So what do you miss most about your relationship with Casey?
The hugs.
I miss communicating with her like we could really talk.
And her and I talk.
The love that a dad has for his daughter is boundless.
There's no way you can put any limits on it.
Nothing can overcome it.
It has been years since you have seen your daughter.
What would it take for her to come back?
I think she's going to want to come back in our lives.
She's not that far away from where we're at.
I mean, I'd be more than glad to meet her halfway, even go where she's staying at, just to be able to see her again.
I don't think that she would have to feel afraid to come back to the house, to our house, because she's been there.
So your message to Casey is, come home?
Come home.
I would love to just get that hug and be able to talk to her just one more time.
I wouldn't force her into saying something.
I would want her just, if there's something she wants to say, just say it to me from your heart.
Just be that young lady or that young woman that I love.
And I still do.
Hopefully Casey and her parents can find a way to meet face to face.
Sort out some of these differences.
I get it.
Life's complicated.
And you both have been through a lot.
We're going to continue to follow the Anthony's journey.
And I wish you guys the best.
God bless you for being here.
Thank you so much again for everything.
Thank you.
We'll be right back.
Thank you.
The Chicken Sandwich Wars.
Which one is the best?
May I have the Popeye's Chicken Sandwich, please?
We go bun to bun with insider tasting.
Mmm.
And getting your hands on your fast food phase.
Where have you been all of my life?
And November is outrageous on Oz.
With outrageous x-rays you have to see to believe.
There's a pair of scissors in there.
Plus, emotional support animals.
Have we gone too far?
All new Oz.
That's coming up tomorrow.
On the next True Crime, today we're keeping up with People Magazine to bring you a daytime exclusive.
When Rose Lenore was just 11 months old, her mother, Bonnie Lee Bakley, was shot.
And her father, Robert Blake, was charged with Bonnie's murder.
Rose is now 19 years old and is here to open up about her traumatic childhood.
But first, take a look at the case that shattered her life before she was even one year old.
Robert Blake began performing at the young age of six in Our Gang, later known as The Little Rastals.
He would go on to appear in dozens of movies and TV shows throughout the next six decades.
He would become a household name while starring in the 70s cop show Beretta.
In 1999, Robert Blake met Bonnie Lee Bakley in an L.A. nightclub.
They had a daughter named Rose in 2000 and quickly when he would become her 10th husband.
After dinner at an L.A. restaurant, Bonnie was killed by a single bullet hole to the head while sitting in the front seat of Blake's car.
Blake claimed to be inside the restaurant.
A year later, Blake was arrested and charged with Bonnie's murder.
He will spend a year in jail awaiting trial.
After a high-profile trial, Blake was found not guilty.
But the lives of Blake and his daughter Rose were forever changed.
On the next True Crime, I'm sitting down with Robert Blake's daughter, Rose Lenore, who's revealing what it was like to hug her father again after 13 years apart.
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