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Sept. 5, 2023 - Dr. Oz Podcast
42:55
The Disappearance of Jennifer Dulos and a Mother's Sacrifice | Dr. Oz | S11 | Ep 2 | Full Episode
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Time Text
What do you think happened to Jennifer?
Something awful has happened to her.
She ever expressed fear to you for her life?
Yes.
What would you ask her husband?
Where is she?
You think he knows?
Yes, I do.
Missing Connecticut mom Jennifer Dulos' friend speaks out.
Plus, she sacrificed her son's life to prevent a mass shooting.
I couldn't take any chance of anybody getting hurt.
are coming up next.
Season 11 starts now.
Season 11 starts now.
I became a doctor to help people heal.
Now I'm using the same science and medicine to take on true crime.
Today's true crime.
Where is missing mother Jennifer Dulos?
The devoted mom vanished in the thin air after dropping her five kids off at school on the morning of May 24th amidst a brutal custody battle with her estranged husband Fotos Dulos.
Rumors of foul play soon emerged, rocking the once tranquil town of New Canaan, Connecticut to its core.
Take a look.
She would not be reported missing by friends and family until 7 p.m.
Her SUV would be found near her home only an hour later, sending the Connecticut town of Duquesne reeling.
First, the search for the missing mother of five, Jennifer Doulos, which is now entering day 12. As police began digging into Jennifer's movements on that fateful day, they say they began to uncover evidence that Jennifer's estranged husband, Fotis, was lying in wait at Jennifer's home the day she disappeared.
Authorities reported a surveillance camera in the neighborhood capturing someone matching the description of Fotis, driving a truck, and putting garbage bags into multiple trash bins.
Detectives later found clothing in the trash with Jennifer Dulos' blood on them.
Fotis Dulos and his girlfriend, Michelle Traconis, were arrested in June and charged with tampering or fabricating physical evidence and hindering prosecution.
Arrest warrants stated that officers found multiple areas of suspected blood in Jennifer Dulos' home.
Both were released on bonds.
After her release, Michelle Traconis began to cooperate with police.
She made damning statements and admitted to lying in previous police interviews.
The investigation's focus turned to the red Toyota pickup truck that Dulos was allegedly driving when Jennifer disappeared.
It was reported that Dulos and Draconis had the truck thoroughly detailed, and Dulos repeatedly badgered the truck's owner, who was one of Dulos' employees, to replace the back seats.
The employee did replace the seats, but saved the originals, which he gave to police.
Dulos and Draconis were rearrested the week of September 1st on charges of evidence tampering.
They were again released on bond.
Joining me now is Nancy Grace, former prosecutor and host of Oxygen's Injustice with Nancy Grace.
So here's the deal.
Fotis and Michelle Traconis have been charged again.
Why do you think it is taking police so long to make their case?
Okay, Dr. Ross, I'm just like you.
I'm about to jump out of my skin.
For some charge regarding murder to go down.
Both times, Fotis Dulos and his girlfriend, his lover, Michelle Traconis, have been arrested.
It's not for kidnap.
It's not for murder.
It's for tampering with evidence.
Refresher, Jennifer Dulos, Connecticut mom of five, goes missing.
She drops her children off like I do, except she's in a fancy suburban.
I'm in a beat-up minivan.
That's okay with me.
That's about 8.05.
She then misses several Many appointments and her friend girls start calling.
Where are you?
They report her missing.
Okay?
Her car, her Suburban, is found parked near a big park.
Cops go into her garage.
They immediately, with the naked eye, see blood.
There's a lot of blood involved in this.
The first tampering with evidence husband and girlfriend are charged with, they're caught on video surveillance.
Listen to this.
Caught on video surveillance and she later admits it's them.
So I don't need NASA to clarify this video for me because she, the girlfriend, the lover, has told cops, according to this arrest warrant, that it was them going to 30 trash receptacles.
30!
Getting rid of evidence.
And all those trash cans, they find a bloody t-shirt, a vineyard vine that we think Jennifer was wearing, bloody sponges, bloody mop.
The blood matches Jennifer, Farber, Dulos.
There's no way around it.
I believe their working theory is she drops the children, comes home, Dulos, their theory, Is waiting, lying in wait.
Fotis, the husband's waiting.
Fotis Dulos.
That there is a brutal confrontation in the garage because of the quantity of blood.
And he has his, wait for it, his employee's Toyota Tacoma that he took without consent.
There's blood, Jennifer's blood, in the back seat.
He orders the employee to change out, rip out the back seat.
And replace it with his Porsche seats.
The employee keeps the seats.
They test positive for Jennifer's blood.
But no murder charge.
They gotta wait.
They're looking for the body.
That's what they're waiting on.
Oh, that's what's holding it up.
Well, they've done a lot of things between when she was allegedly hurt and...
You should say this arrest warrant.
It's very detailed.
Well, let's go through the defense's arguments here.
They're saying, it's some wild theories.
One is that Jennifer's real life is that she's a gone girl.
That she ran away, right?
A real life gone girl, referring to the book and the movie where a woman fakes her death to frame her husband.
I just hope they keep talking and I pray to God that when this ever does go to trial that Fotis Dula says that on the stand.
Just nothing would make me happier.
First they say that she, Jennifer, is still alive.
Number one.
Then they say that she, Jennifer, wrote a gone girl type novel and that now she's living it out.
Third, they're saying, okay, forget about all that.
Now we think it was...
Revenge.
Suicide.
Their theory is that Jennifer killed herself to spite Fotis Dulos.
Just know this.
You know it nearly killed me as much as I love you and your staff, Dr. Oz, when I flew up here because I miss John Davies' very first soccer game with his school.
You know what?
Five children, many of them so young, they will have no memory of their mother.
No memory at all.
Because of this.
But what happens to those poor little kids now?
That's a whole other can of worms, Dr. Oz.
They're with the maternal grandmother, okay?
She wisely has them in a different jurisdiction, so photos doulas can't get out of the state.
She's in Manhattan, he is back in Connecticut.
And just to spite Granny, just to get at Granny, he makes a legal motion for Granny to be legally, mentally evaluated.
Just to irritate her.
I mean, it never ends.
But I hope they come up with all these theories at trial.
Gone girl, still alive, revenge suicide.
And it's all blaming the victim.
But long story short, why not just divorce?
Why go through all of this over money?
Oh yeah, he owes her parents 1.2 million dollars.
Yeah.
He does?
Yes, he does.
His construction company wasn't all that, apparently.
So you put in the money, the divorce, the children.
And it's part of a controlling behavior, Dr. Oz.
You're better at understanding that than me.
He could have the affairs and the flings, but then when she filed for divorce, and you know what?
She told the judge at the time of the divorce, I'm afraid he'll kill me.
She told the judge that?
She sure did.
At the time when everything was happening regarding the divorce, she said to a judge, I'm afraid he'll kill me.
And now she's gone.
Coming up, what Jennifer's life with Fotis was really like.
Stay with us.
I think my hope was that she ran and that she just got someplace safe.
The mother part of me said she wouldn't go anywhere without those children.
See, he's not behaving as I would behave.
If the mother of my kids was missing, I would be doing everything I could to find her.
We're back with the heartbreaking story that has the nation riveted.
Beloved Connecticut mother of five, Jennifer Doulos, has been missing since she dropped her kids off at school on May 24th.
Jennifer's estranged husband, Fotos Doulos, and his girlfriend, Michelle Traconis, were arrested for evidence tampering for the second time.
And are both out on bail again.
Joining me now is correspondent Morris Gabacompo.
We've been following this so carefully for us.
So Fotis' defense team has requested the release of Jennifer's medical records for the second time.
What is going on?
What are they trying to prove?
Yeah, so what's interesting here is that Fotis has gotten his hands on a copy of Jennifer's medical bills.
So it's a bill for $14,000, and they're requesting the medical records associated with those bills.
They say that the billing code that was used is for testing that could have been for pregnancy or for a terminal illness.
So they're basically suggesting that Jennifer was terminally ill, she didn't want Fotis to get custody of the children when she died, and so she ran away to frame him.
That's the implication here.
Alright, so New Canaan and the surrounding towns are still reeling from Jennifer's disappearance.
We sent Mara to Connecticut to talk to some people who got to know Jennifer during a very vulnerable time in her life.
Take a look.
So tell me about how you came to know Jennifer.
I got my estimate request that she was looking to move.
She was nervous, you know.
During our walk-through, she said, you know, if my husband does come here while you're here, you know, you'll have to, you know, sneak out or leave or something like that.
Did she seem afraid of him?
Yeah, she was worried that if he came home and saw me there that there would be problems.
What did she tell you about the circumstances of the move?
It was more of an escape than it was a move.
Yeah.
So how did you hear the news that she was missing?
She goes, did you hear about Jennifer Dulos?
I said, no, what's up?
She's moving again?
And she goes...
It's okay here.
I think my hope was that she ran and that she just got someplace safe.
A mother part of me said she wouldn't go anywhere without those children.
Even the Dulos' real estate agent and one of Fotis' business associates expressed concern I know Fotis from a professional relationship of listing his home in Farmington and we've done other work for him trying to find buyers that want to build his houses.
But our job is to sell a home and we represent Jennifer and we represent Fotis still.
How would you describe her temperament?
Beautiful lady.
Absolutely very soft.
She was very inwardly focused towards taking care of the kids.
Where I think Fotis was more outside of the home.
And you've been in touch with him since all of this began.
I spoke with him I think within an hour after he bailed out of jail.
He was ready to go back to business.
So he was asking you about work immediately after getting out of jail.
Exactly right.
And see, he's not behaving as I would behave.
If the mother of my kids was missing, I would be doing everything I could to find her.
You just saw on that tape, there's a lot of emotions surrounding Jennifer's disappearance.
Let's go back to those movers.
So they've relocated her twice now, and they got to know her.
Yeah.
This is all happening since she separated from him.
What do they say about her demeanor?
In terms of her demeanor, they say she was extremely fearful.
She was scared of her husband, and in fact, she called them several times to reschedule her move, crying, because she just couldn't have her husband there.
Up next, Jennifer's dear friend and the family spokesperson talks about the anguish the family is going through.
The one thing she would say to Fotis Doulos if he were here.
Stay with us.
I worked in fast food for many years now.
It was just disgusting.
He just spit in it.
Is he peeing?
That is definitely a wrap.
What really goes on behind the counter?
That was nasty!
Plus, all rise for health court.
Dirty Keto is coming between two friends.
I lost almost 75 pounds in like two months.
I don't even believe her entire story.
All new Oz.
That's coming up tomorrow.
We're back with the latest on Missing Mom, Jennifer Dulos.
Connecticut authorities believe Jennifer's estranged husband, Fotos Dulos, was lying in wait at her home the day she disappeared.
But they still haven't located the mother of five who was last seen on May 24th.
Carrie Luft, Jennifer's close friend, is serving as Jennifer's family spokesperson.
She joins us now.
Thank you for being here.
Thank you for having me.
How hard have these last few months been?
Well, I appreciate your asking.
They've been terrible.
These past more than 100 days now have definitely been everyone's worst nightmare.
You've got the difficult task of helping with the kids.
The kids are just five children, age 8 to 13. We're not going to show their pictures.
I don't think it's appropriate to traumatize these kids any further.
But they just started school.
How do they cope?
How do they get through it?
Well, I'd have to say that the kids inspire me every day.
They are incredibly resilient.
I think they're helping one another through this in an incredible way.
So it's been our priority to provide them with some semblance of a normal life within what is...
This is so terribly not a normal situation.
I mean, no one could predict this could have happened or how to cope with an event like this.
What do you want America to know about your friend Jennifer?
I want them to know that she's absolutely devoted to her children.
Their health and happiness and growth as individuals has always been her number one priority.
Her life is about creating security and stability and opportunity for them.
In addition to that, I want them to know that she is brilliant and funny and lovely and gracious and the best friend anybody could ever hope for.
Wish I'd had a chance to meet her.
Fotis' legal team is throwing out a bunch of theories.
And you've heard all these.
But I'd love to hear your thoughts around them.
One claim is that she's like the book and movie Gone Girl, right?
That she's just disappeared and framed him.
Thoughts?
My thoughts are that it's completely absurd.
On many levels.
First and foremost, given Jennifer's character and her behavior in her life, She's an amazingly conscientious person.
She checks in.
She lets you know where she's headed, when to expect her back.
She would never ever miss an appointment without calling in advance.
So the notion that she could have disappeared voluntarily and Left her children is completely unfathomable.
And I know that her children know she would never have done that.
But to put that out into the media repeatedly is, I think, incredibly cruel and irresponsible.
Fotis' legal team is now trying to get access to Jennifer's medical records.
And they argue...
They have billing reports.
They argue that she had a series of ultrasounds, which you can tell from the bill, before she disappeared.
Thoughts?
Well, I guess my first thought is that we...
Have laws that protect the privacy of people's medical records first and foremost.
Beyond that, Jennifer has always taken excellent care of her health.
We know that she was in excellent health as of May 24th, so there seems to be absolutely no factual basis for this at all.
They're claiming that she lost a lot of weight.
You're close to her.
You spent a lot of time with her.
Had she lost a lot of weight from her, the police report says she's 120 pounds.
The missing person report.
Correct.
You think that was an accurate number?
Had she lost, I guess, I saw all kinds of numbers being thrown out by their team.
Well, you know, again, I think putting numbers out there without anything to back them up is irresponsible.
But beyond that, certainly she's been under incredible stress.
As a physician, you know that sometimes a common response to stress is loss of appetite.
So had she lost some weight?
Sure.
But I think the bigger issue is that none of this has anything to do with the evidence behind her disappearance.
You mentioned that Jennifer had some fears.
Did she ever express fear to you for her life?
Yes.
She did?
Yes.
Oh my goodness.
Who was she afraid of?
I'd prefer not to elaborate.
That's okay.
Thank you.
Carrie, what do you think happened to Jennifer?
Well, the evidence that the police investigators have made public indicates that she was the victim of a violent attack.
We know something awful has happened to her.
Does the family acknowledge that, do you think?
Well, we all acknowledge that something terrible has happened to her and that she's been missing for more than three months.
If I could put Fotis in this chair where I'm sitting, what would you ask him?
What would you ask Fotis, her husband?
The only thing I would have to say to him is, where is she?
Where is Jennifer?
Where is she?
You think he knows?
Yes, I do.
What do you miss the most about your friend Jennifer?
I miss her voice.
I miss the sound of her voice.
I miss the lilt of her voice.
I miss her laugh.
I miss her sighs.
I'm sure Jennifer's very proud to have you as a friend.
Well, thank you.
I'm proud to have her as a friend.
Thanks for being here.
Well, thank you for having me.
We reached out to Fotos Doulos' defense team for a comment we did not hear back.
He has previously denied any involvement in the disappearance of Jennifer Doulos.
If you have any information that you think could be helpful in any way, please go to dros.com slash crimehunters and we'll have the contact information for the proper authorities there so you can speak to them directly.
directly.
We'll be right back.
This school in Indiana could have been the site of another school shooting, another tragedy of lost lives that would have stained our nation.
A 14-year-old boy was headed there with two loaded guns.
Like many other shooters, he had written a note and had a plan to hurt many people that day.
I heard gunshots.
He was yelling and the cops were yelling at him to get down and stay down.
I heard tell him to get under our computer desks and stay under there until it was over.
That is the sound of kids from inside the Dennis Intermediate School in Richmond, Indiana, recounting the horrifying moments.
Some sent anxious texts to their parents.
Police had been notified that a potential shooter was on his way to the school, which went into lockdown mode.
There was gunfire.
And then police say the teen, who was armed with the gun, took his own life.
No one else was hurt.
Today went off.
As well as I think we could expect it to go.
Responding police arrived before the armed teenager and knew who they were looking for, while authorities aren't saying who tipped them off.
Well, we know who tipped them off.
The person who tipped them off was Mary.
And the shooter was Mary's son.
Today, in Oz exclusive, she's speaking out about the call to police that she made that day.
It helped save many lives, but also sacrificed her son.
Thank you for being here.
Thank you for having me.
Thank you for taking action that could have gone in many different directions.
It was a hard decision to make and you made, I think, the right one.
And I want to understand a bit more about your son and about how you were able to do this.
Brandon is a child.
Describe him to us.
He was very funny.
I mean, he loved swimming, go-karting.
He was just like any other child.
When did you start to notice that he wasn't like every other child, that he was changing?
When he would stay, like, you know, he went socialized a lot and You know, he just wouldn't talk a lot.
He wouldn't tell me a lot of things, how he was feeling.
And...
What age was that when he began to change so your son stopped communicating?
He was like...
Thirteen.
Did he ever do anything at that time that made you worry that he would hurt himself or others?
No.
Nothing at all.
I mean, he was very bullied from sixth grade until I pulled him out of school.
He was scarred?
Yeah, he was scarred.
Did he have exposure to guns, to other experiences that...
Would it have made him comfortable around using ammunition?
Yes.
My fiancé had guns.
They were his guns.
He had them.
They were locked up.
And he took Brandon and taught him to shoot one time.
So if you can, take me back to that fateful day.
The day when you realized...
That Brandon was a risk to himself and to others.
I had gotten off work and my fiance calls me and says we have a problem.
Brandon has a gun pointed at me and is telling me to take him to Dennis Middle School.
So when you got that phone call from your fiance, what were you feeling?
At first I didn't know why he would be calling me that early in the morning.
But when he said we have an issue, when he told me, I just broke down.
I was just...
It's okay.
I just knew how to try to do something.
I mean, I talked to my son.
I told him that...
I tried talking about everything that I could for him not to do this.
You told him you loved him?
How I loved him, I told him I couldn't live without him.
What did Brandon, your son, say?
He said, last words my son said was, um...
Um...
He said, it's too late, I'm the problem.
It's too late, I'm the problem.
And what did you say when he said that to you?
I didn't say anything because I lost the connection.
You lost the cell phone connection?
Yeah, I lost the cell phone connection.
So then what did you do?
Your son's driving to a middle school where you know he had been bullied.
He's got guns.
He's got your fiancé.
He's forcing to take to him.
So what did you do?
I immediately got and called 911. What did you tell them?
I told my son.
My fiancé had a gun, pointed at him, telling him to take him to Dennis Middle School.
And that, um, they didn't hurry up and get there.
What was it like making that call?
That was the worst day of my life because I knew that I'd never see my son again.
I couldn't take any chance of anybody getting hurt.
Do you realize how brave that is to risk your own son's life to save other children?
I don't.
To me, I don't.
I'm going to feel like, you know, brave.
I've been called a hero.
I just want to feel like I did something that anybody would do.
I don't know if all the moms in America would do that.
That's a really tough decision.
That's about as tense as it could ever get in your soul.
There was a standoff between Brandon and the police.
I know this is difficult, this whole conversation, this whole episode is tough to recount.
What happened when the police...
Encountered your son at the school.
They had gotten there earlier because you had warned them.
So the police were at the school.
Your son drives up with your fiancé.
He goes to the doors.
They've locked the school down because you bravely called ahead and warned the teachers and these kids.
So the police were there.
School's locked down.
He checks a bunch of doors.
He knows the school.
He went there.
That's where he'd been bullied.
Shoots his way into a door in the back of the school.
And then what happened?
He was trying to shoot to get this door open and he ran out of bullets and threw the pistol he had and then he had a rifle and then he takes his life.
He shot himself.
Yeah.
I'm sorry.
Thank you.
Do you think you did the right thing by calling 911?
Yes.
I would not change that day for nothing, no matter how much I miss and love my son.
It's been about a year since this has happened.
Is there any healing going on?
How are you doing?
There's good days and bad days.
You know, this whole season on the show, I'm talking about the power we all have as individuals.
Power of one.
And decisions aren't always easy.
If they were easy, everyone would make them.
But you saved a lot of lives that day.
You lost the one you cared about the most.
You changed a lot of people's destiny.
And I applaud you for that.
Thank you.
Up next, we're going to be talking about something called red flag laws.
Could they prevent someone that you know and love from hurting others?
Stay with us.
We're back with Mary, whose son could have been the next school shooter.
Brandon was headed to this middle school with two loaded guns.
And mom made the call that changed everything.
It tipped off police that he was coming.
And at the end of the shootout, Brandon took his own life.
Hard to revisit that day.
But can you go back even before that day?
In hindsight, are there any clues that Brandon might have been a danger to himself or others?
Anything that moms around the country thinking about their own kids might benefit from hearing?
Yes, I think that when your child shuts himself out and don't talk, and even I think electronics are a big thing.
For kids.
Escaping from the challenges of life.
Yes.
It can be good, it can be bad.
There are moms like Mary, we're listening right now.
I want you to just put down what you're doing and just listen for a second.
So I've been researching these red flag laws.
And here's the big question.
Can they keep guns out of the wrong person's hands?
Take a look.
There were threats.
There were weapons stockpiles.
Around the country, there have been reports of police uncovering one potential mass shooter after another.
In Ohio, a 20-year-old, after he allegedly threatened to shoot up a Jewish community center.
In Connecticut, a man authorities say was collecting weapons to commit a mass shooting.
And in Florida, a 25-year-old who is claimed to have sent a text message boasting his desire to, quote, break a world record for the longest confirmed kill ever.
But how many other potential shooters are out there just waiting and looking for an opportunity to slip through the cracks?
New research suggests urgent and individualized intervention can play a role in efforts to prevent mass shootings.
According to the 2019 study, there were 21 cases in California in which the state's red flag laws were used to help thwart violence.
All over the country, lawmakers are taking a closer look at red flag laws, a kind of protection order that allows police to confiscate weapons from those believed to be an imminent threat.
The request can come from a family member, medical professional, or friend.
Seventeen states and the District of Columbia have some form of red flag laws, but neither state where recent shootings occurred had them at the time.
The Dayton, Ohio shooter reportedly had hit lists and a fascination with shootings and violence.
The Odessa, Texas mass shooter was known to some neighbors as El Loco, the crazy one, and had even been reported to police for threatening a neighbor with a rifle.
And what about the 22 deaths in El Paso, Texas?
According to reports, the shooter's mother called the Allen, Texas Police Department weeks before the shooting because she was concerned about her son owning an AK-type firearm.
Could red flag laws have stopped the bloodshed?
And should red flag laws be adopted nationwide?
Up next, Mary's son Brandon's life could have been saved.
Your son will be alive today if there was a red flag law available to you.
That's the question I'm asking all of us right now.
Could red flag laws help prevent someone you know and love from hurting others?
It is time to take action.
We're back investigating the big question.
How do we keep guns out of the wrong person's hands?
The nation's biggest retailers are starting to take action.
Walmart plans to stop selling types of ammunition for handguns and military style weapons.
And other retailers like CVS are changing their policies for openly carrying guns in their stores.
Another thing that may help protect you and your family are red flag laws, which can stop down more mass shootings according to new research.
Joining us now are experts who've been at the forefront of these red flag laws.
Legal analyst Amy Swerer and analyst and psychologist Stacey Meisner.
So Amy, it can vary from state to state, but generally how do these red flag laws work?
So red flag laws are a way of better identifying individuals who are becoming increasingly dangerous, either to themselves or to the public at large.
And generally what they do is allow individuals who are close to people who are becoming dangerous, such as friends, family members, sometimes co-workers, teachers, to petition courts directly to say, hey, this person is becoming dangerous.
I'm seeing these signs.
Can we intervene specifically with this person To disarm them and then hopefully reroute them toward treatment if that's appropriate and to get them to a better place where they're no longer dangerous before we give them back either firearms or other dangerous objects.
So one of the nice things about having 50 states is we don't have to all go first.
So 19 states have already developed some type of red flag law.
How has it worked?
Is there proof that it's beneficial?
So one of the things that we're seeing is, first of all, they're being used.
So when people are aware that these laws exist, we're seeing even in jurisdictions like Maryland, when they recently implemented that, within the first month, there were over 100 petitions that were filed.
So there's a need for that that people are seeing when they're aware that they exist.
But then the other thing that we're seeing is this segment of the population that's falling under the radar, that's becoming dangerous, but that isn't being reached under current laws.
Alright, so Stacy, as a psychologist, what are the red flag signs?
What are the issues that you should be looking for to determine if someone around you could be a danger?
Right, so first we're going to look at weapons, right?
Does the person have access to weapons?
Do they own a gun?
Do they have family members who have guns in the home?
Behavioral changes, personality changes, super important also.
We're looking at, you know, classic signs of depression, really.
Isolation, decreased sleeping, decreased eating, changes in expressed mood, you know, is the person angry, is the person agitated, or even more calm.
Super important.
Some of these are topics that Mary brought up when she was talking about her son Brandon.
Yes.
Warning signs she wasn't aware of, but now you all are.
Yes.
The red flag issues can be, as you mentioned, not easily accessible to everybody, but you're close to that person so you know about them.
So it could be an issue for a coworker, a relative, an ex-spouse or a spouse, a neighbor, even a friend that you're worried about.
So the purpose is to allow us to identify people who are at risk that no one else has figured out or are at risk.
So let me open it up to the audience and see if you've got any questions about red flag laws.
We'll start with you.
Go ahead.
What's your name?
Jody.
How does the process work?
Can you stay anonymous when you report so that you can stay safe?
Jodi, well, unfortunately, there's not one simple answer because this is going to depend, again, on what state you're in.
So I'd say one of the first things you should do is to look up what some of your options are.
And that, again, can involve going to the police and asking, you know, what are my options?
This is what I'm seeing.
And even calling 911. And, you know, letting them know you have a psychiatric emergency.
Let me push you a little bit, because the issue of being anonymous is, for me, vital.
If someone's already dangerous, a co-worker, you don't want to make yourself a target by telling everybody, hey, I think you're dangerous, right?
How many of you would be more comfortable if it was anonymous?
So I think part of the hope, I gather, is that we'll make a system so that I can call in and say, there's evidence besides my testimony that this person's dangerous.
Look at their Facebook feed or social media postings or comments they've made to other co-workers besides me.
Do a little investigating.
I'm alerting you, putting a little red flag up there saying this person's a concern.
Then I would hope that all the states would say, well, if there's obvious evidence and you're pointing us to it, you don't have to get involved personally.
Is that what's going to eventually happen, hopefully, in most states?
So that is something that you can do.
And again, it's going to depend on the specifics of the red flag law.
Some red flag laws do have avenues for you to kind of hand it over to the law enforcement officials, if you will.
And I'd say, too, what red flag laws allow you to do a lot of times is if you bring that to law enforcement and nothing is done.
So this is something we've seen, for example, with Parkland.
Where there were all these red flag law signs, but nothing was done.
Red flag laws then allow you directly to go to the court, you know, if nothing else is done, and to say, look, nothing is happening, but I'm still seeing these signs.
Please intervene and do something.
You had a question.
Go ahead.
I'm a middle school teacher, and sometimes with 10-year-olds, it may not be right away that something happens.
How long can it be seen that maybe in the seventh grade, in the eighth grade, maybe in the ninth grade, that this kid really is a danger?
I don't think there's a time limit on what you need in terms of calling.
And actually in New York, they allow teachers to petition the court in terms of these red flag laws.
But I don't think there's a time limit.
I think it's more about your concerns.
It's one of the reasons that I feel so passionately about getting you all empowered.
And all of you realizing how much you can make a difference.
Because you all have the power to stop down another tragedy.
Since the El Paso and Dayton shootings, dozens of arrests have been made in efforts to stop down shootings.
People just like us calling in and saying, you know, this guy's doing weird things.
You know, he's torturing animals.
These tips are important.
They lead to arrests.
This guy in California, let me show you his picture, he alerted the authorities of his co-worker who had made threats of a possible mass shooting.
Well, guess what?
Once the police had the tip, the clue, they found an arsenal of weapons in his house.
That's a lot of lives saved.
Mary saved countless kids by exposing her son.
Albedo was a little too late to help him, but exposing his son.
Now, if she had been able to do that earlier, he'd be alive today, so he'd have been saving the person you're trying to help.
So for those living in the States without red flag logs, but want to report something troubling about someone who has access to guns, especially Give a call to the number on your screen.
800-799-SAFE. Just call that number.
And one more thing I want all you to do.
It's a new thing we're doing this season.
It's called Stop, Snap, and Share.
So get your camera out, your phone, take a photo of the screen right now, and send it to someone.
I just put up the warning signs so that you can actually stop, snap, and share that list.
And then send that list to people that you care about.
Spread the word of what we should all be looking for to help prevent another tragedy.
For more answers to common questions about red flag laws, you can also go to DrOz.com and put a whole bunch of stuff out there so we can end the debate on this very worthy approach.
We'll be right back.
On the next true crime, at first glance, serial killer Ted Bundy appeared to be a young, handsome, and charismatic law student. serial killer Ted Bundy appeared to be a young, handsome, But lurking just beneath that charming facade was a very sinister and sick man.
We go inside one of Ted Bundy's last and most infamous attacks, his vicious assaults at the Florida State University campus, a rampage that literally shook the nation to its core and eventually led to his undoing.
Take a look.
Bundy's sex-killing spree spanned from 1974 to 1978 and would claim the lives of at least 30 young women.
But as authorities slowly began to untangle his ghastly web of murder and deception, he escaped twice.
The second time making his way to Tallahassee, Florida.
Margaret Bowman and Lisa Levy were brutally attacked and murdered in their beds at the Florida State University Chi Omega sorority house.
Immediately after, Bundy attacked and bludgeoned roommates Karen Chandler and Kathy Kleiner.
Bundy then moved down the street, viciously and brazenly attacking Cheryl Ann Thomas and her on-campus duplex.
Cheryl, Karen, and Kathy would be the only victims to survive Bundy's deadly attacks at Florida State University, all suffering horrific injuries.
Bundy would leave behind the necessary evidence police needed to put this ruthless killer behind bars.
Coming up on the next true crime, two of the women who survived Bundy's savage attacks will be with us.
They both escaped death at the hands of the country's most prolific serial killer, and they lived to tell about it.
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