Charlamagne Tha God Reveals His Battle With Anxiety
He’s known for his “tell it like it is” attitude and he can cut through the noise like no one else can. The Breakfast Club’s Charlamagne Tha God has an unfiltered candor that put him on the map as one of the most powerful forces in the media. But in this interview, he’s using his voice to sound off in a very different way as he sits down with Dr. Oz to reveal his personal struggle with anxiety, which almost took over his life. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
You know, that weakness is just going to get me hurt out there in these streets.
So that weakness is just going to keep me back.
Because it's like, yo, you know, I'm a true believer that your thoughts become things.
So I don't want to hold on to no negative thoughts.
But you don't realize those negative thoughts are in there anyway.
And they pop up at the most inopportune times and hold you back.
so you might as well just unpack them.
Hey everyone, I'm Dr. Oz and this is the Dr. Oz Podcast.
We'll see you next time.
He's known for his tell-it-like-it-is attitude.
He can cut through the noise like no one else can.
The Breakfast Club, Charlamagne, the gods, unfiltered candor, put him on the map.
He's one of the most powerful forces in media.
But today he's using his voice to sound off in a very different way, in a way I've never heard it described.
Charlamagne is here, revealing his own personal struggle with anxiety, that it was so debilitating, so hurtful, that it almost took over his life.
Thank you for being here.
I want to commend you for being brave.
Listen, you always say what you think, which is unique.
It's hard to tell the truth all the time, at least your truth.
And it gets you in trouble sometimes, but that's why you're popular.
And I love having you on the show because you've come on and discussed some topics that are sometimes difficult for the audience and me to get my heads around.
But today I'm going to outnumber you with my wife.
I see.
She's got the big questions for you.
Your better half is here.
Thank you for having me, by the way.
I'm happy to have you.
So before we get into the issues around anxiety, what's the number one complaint my audience has?
Really?
Number one.
I mean, of all the things you'd think they'd be, listen, they're worried about Alzheimer's too, and they're worried about heart issues, but they're also worried about losing weight, all the things that you'd expect.
But the anxiety thing threw me off.
That's why having you here talking about your own experience can be so valuable.
But Lisa has the first question.
Oh, I was just curious how you came up with the name Charlemagne.
Charlemagne.
You know, Charlemagne is French for Charles the Great.
And when I used to sell crack in Monks Corner, South Carolina, like I'm from a real small town, so the population was only like 7,000.
So if, you know, the fiends would roll up, the crackheads, they would see me and they'd be like, oh, that's Larry's son or Julia's son.
So I didn't want them to, you know, recognize me.
So I'd wear like a hoodie and I would always say my name was Charles or Charlie.
And then one day I was just...
reading in a history book in night school and I saw Charlemagne was French for Charles the Great and I literally was like, oh, that sounds cool.
I'm going to start calling myself Charlemagne.
And, you know, the God comes from the 5% teachings of Islam because I used to study the 5% teachings of Islam, so technically the name doesn't make any sense because it's Charlemagne the Great, the God.
But, you know, that's what happens when you pick a nickname when you're 17 years old.
You know?
That's what happens.
So let's go back to what it was like.
Leonard Larry McKelvey.
Yes, sir.
So, his other name, besides Charlie May the God.
So you're growing up in a little town in South Carolina.
My roommate from college was from South Carolina.
Of what?
Greenville.
Oh, upstate.
864. 864, exactly.
But he had a place down in Myrtle Beach, so we'd go across the state, go from his home down to the beach and back.
You know, it's summertime usually because we're in school.
We went to college in Boston.
No one could understand him ever.
He had a thick Southern accent.
Oh, gotcha.
Was he Geechee or just Southern?
Just Southern.
Okay, Geechee is Charleston.
He talked like this, you know what I'm saying?
He'd be like, boy, look here, I box you in your mouth, boy.
That's how they talk in Charleston.
I think he can do that.
He could do it.
He just didn't do it.
But it's a place where I always felt people were supportive of each other.
I used to know if you could really talk about the problems you're facing in your own home.
And so I'm curious what it was like for you going through anxiety as a young black man in South Carolina.
I didn't know I had it.
I didn't realize I had anxiety until 2008. I remember it like it was yesterday.
I was fired for the fourth time from radio.
I was like 31, 32 years old.
I think my daughter was like two or three.
So I was back home.
I'm in South Carolina living with my mom after being Wendy Williams co-hosting New York, after doing my own morning show in Philly.
And I'm living back home with my mom, and I remember I just got all of this stress going on.
I don't really know what's next, you know.
I'm living back home with my mom.
My now wife and my daughter are living back home with her parents, and we're all in Monk's Corner.
And I remember driving down I-26 in South Carolina on the way to Columbia because I was going to see a friend do a comedy show, my man Lil Duval.
And I just had like this...
Tightening in my chest.
As I'm sitting there talking to my cousin, he's driving, I'm talking to him, I just get this, like, tightening in my chest, and I'm like, I'm about to have a heart attack.
I even psyched myself out to think that my left arm was going numb, because you know they always say your left arm goes numb.
You're so smart.
Yeah, I was psyching myself out, so I told him, pull over, and I took a drink of water, and I took a deep breath, and I was like, I'm just gonna go to the doctor tomorrow, see what's wrong with my heart.
And I went to the doctor, and I was telling the doctor, you know, what happened, and he was like, your heart is fine, you got an athlete's heart.
He was like, telling me like you had a panic attack, and I was like, Panic attack.
He was like, yeah, it was an anxiety attack.
He suffered from anxiety?
I was like, not that I know of.
And he didn't put me on anything or any medication or nothing that day.
He just made me aware of it.
And I remember leaving there thinking like, well, I've had this feeling before.
Several times throughout my life prior, but you know, You chalk it up to the streets prior.
Prior, like, you're in the streets.
You're doing things you don't got no business doing.
You're selling crack.
You're running around living the street life.
You're in and out of jail.
So you think that that paranoia and everything comes with that lifestyle.
You don't realize that you're actually suffering from anxiety.
Like, I've had anxiety to the point where I've smoked marijuana while I was on the block selling dope.
Smoked marijuana, got so paranoid that I buried my dope, told everybody, yo, the police are coming, the police are coming, the police are coming.
I'm bugging out, tripping, and they used to always laugh at me when I would have these panic attacks.
They used to be like, this dude is the most paranoid dude I know.
But weed does that anyway.
It makes you paranoid.
Yeah, but imagine smoking the weed and already having anxiety issues, not knowing you have anxiety issues.
So this weed is heightening all of that.
But actually, the police did come that day, by the way.
So my anxiety did help me that day because I was already outside.
And by the time the police came, I had everybody so worked up that like four of us got away just running through the woods because I had worked everybody up and scared everybody so bad.
So I had been dealing with the panic attacks and the anxiety attacks.
I just didn't know what they were.
I didn't have a proper diagnosis for it until 10 years ago.
So you walk out of the doctor's office.
The good news is you're not having a heart attack.
The bad news is you've got this problem that can afflict you for the rest of your life.
I mean, how'd you get past that?
Who'd you tell first?
I didn't tell anybody.
I think I told my wife that she said I had a panic attack.
And then at first, I didn't even really want to say anything because to me, panic attacks have such a bad stigma.
It's almost like...
That's why I named the book Shook When It's almost like, yo, you're so shook.
In the streets, we say you're so scared that something's terrifying you that bad.
It's like, yo, man up.
Like, you'll get another job.
Like, you won't live in your mom's house forever.
Like, you just...
You chalk it up to all of that.
Like, all I got to do is get back on my feet and I'll be fine.
And that's what actually scared me the most is when, you know...
Two, three years ago, all of those same feelings start to come back, and I'm like, why?
I'm doing great in life.
I'm successful, you know what I'm saying?
I got a beautiful family.
I don't have any money issues.
Why do I still feel these feelings?
Feelings of paranoia, these feelings of insecurity, this anxiety, like why do I still feel anxious all the time?
And that's what made me actually start going to therapy and just like unpacking a lot of this stuff.
So walk us through that process.
So therapy is something that is also a feared intervention.
And more people feel that they're, you know, they're weak.
I have to go to therapy.
And you know, it takes a lot to man up to the fact that you need therapy.
So was there a moment where you finally said, I gotta go see someone professionally?
And then they said something that sort of got you thinking, you know what?
This could actually help me.
Yeah, I had been just asking friends, you know, because I had friends who would go to therapy.
So I would just ask them about the therapy process and, you know, what is it like?
So it was kind of like I was just peeking around.
And then eventually, man, and I'm sure both of y'all know this because you're probably the go-to's in your family or you're probably the go-to's for your friends.
It's like, who does the go-to guy or go-to gal go to when you need somebody to talk to?
Who'd you ask?
Neil Brennan was somebody that I used to talk to about it.
My man Pete Davidson was somebody that I would talk to about it.
These are people that would openly have these discussions with me about therapy anyway.
After a while, I was just like, I'm going to go find me a therapist.
I told my assistant one day, just like...
Find me somebody.
And I actually wanted somebody who was like the complete opposite of me.
I didn't want a black person.
I wanted a woman, you know, preferably an Asian woman.
I didn't even want a white woman.
I wanted somebody that's not from, that probably didn't have any, just a blank slate.
You know, they didn't have any preconceived notions about nothing.
But I did end up, you know, sitting down with a white woman therapist and she's been...
Absolutely amazing, because she knows nothing about my world at all.
Like, none.
Like, I can look in her face sometime and see that she needs a break from me.
I'm like, who is she going to talk to after this is over?
So let's go through this.
So you have a woman who knows nothing about CU, South Carolina, Monk's Corner...
They couldn't understand what shook one meant.
Yes.
If you try to walk her down the street to explain it to her.
So what kinds of questions did she ask you?
I'm partly trying to tease into this because there are a lot of folks watching or listening right now who would never think of going to therapy.
Yeah.
But because you're doing it, maybe I'll give it a shot.
I think for me, man, it's not even about what she tells me.
It's about what she allows me to tell her.
You know, because it's just like, I just turned 40. I didn't realize I had so much baggage.
I didn't realize I had so many things to unpack.
I didn't realize I was so damaged.
Like, it's things that affected me when I was young that I didn't even think about.
You know what I mean?
I talk about being molested when I was eight years old.
I used to always tell that story about my cousin's ex-wife touching on me, but at eight, I thought I was the man.
Because, you know, men, we're taught that the earlier the better.
So I'm thinking like, yo, I'm touching on breasts and, you know, she's doing things to me at eight.
I'm bragging to my friends about it.
I remember watching Tyler Perry on Oprah and Tyler was crying about a woman in his family that was touching on him.
And I was like...
What's wrong with him?
I remember tweeting that out.
Like, what the hell is wrong with Tyler Perry?
But then after a while, I had to question myself.
Like, what's wrong with me?
That I thought that this was okay.
So it's like things like that that had an effect on me that I didn't even know had an effect on me.
Or like issues with my father.
You know, like that's what therapy does.
Therapy makes you vulnerable.
So it's like my father asked me to do something this year.
He asked me to help him, you know, build the house.
Of course, I would love to do that.
That's my pops.
But then I realized that I had...
Issues with my father that I hadn't addressed yet.
Meaning that he left my mom 18, 19 years ago for another woman.
That never sat well with me.
Especially being that I haven't seen my mom with anybody else.
you know but you know my father's out there with his new wife and his hit her grandkids and treating her grandkids like they're his grandkids and he doesn't even acknowledge his real grandkids my daughters are my my sister's daughters are my brother's kids so it's just like i didn't even realize i had those issues with him until he asked me that and i remember i remember the words he used he was like yeah i gotta get them out of this house meaning his new family and i'm And I'm like...
In my mind, I'm like, if you're a new family, you don't even talk to your grandkids.
But as a son, I'm scared still of my father to even have that conversation.
So I had to have like two, three weeks of therapy just unpacking all of that and, you know, telling my wife about it and telling my therapist about it to finally get the strength to even talk to him about it.
And then when I finally talked to him about it, it was the easiest conversation in the world.
Like, he was like...
You're absolutely right.
He was like, you're absolutely right.
You're right.
I have not acknowledged my grandkids.
And I had to tell him, I would love to do this for you, but that's what's bothering me.
It's bothering me that you want me to build this new house for you and your new family, but you don't even acknowledge your real family.
First of all, was he surprised that you raised it?
I don't know if he was surprised.
I don't know.
So what did he do?
He literally just listened.
He didn't push back.
He absolutely said, you're right.
And immediately his actions started to reflect that I was right because he immediately, you know, started calling and just checking on the grandkids, you know, dropping things off to the house when they're in town, things like that.
And that made me honestly feel good.
Like from that moment on, it felt like a weight was lifted off me.
And it was like, you know what?
Now I can do this for you and your new family and not feel any guilt about it.
My loyalty is still with my mom at the end of the day.
I'm like, you left my mom 18, 19 years ago.
That's one of the reasons that made me become a proud member of the Faithful Black Male Association because I don't want to do to my wife what I feel like my father did to my mom.
I want to keep our family together.
I don't want to break my wife's heart.
Those are the issues that you unpack in therapy because I don't talk about these things.
I suppress them.
Like, that's just the way I've been taught.
Like, something bothers you, I don't got time for that.
That's weakness.
You know, that weakness is just going to get me hurt out there in these streets.
So that weakness is just going to keep me back.
Because it's like, yo, you know, I'm a true believer that your thoughts become things.
So I don't want to hold on to no negative thoughts.
But you don't realize those negative thoughts are in there anyway.
And they pop up at the most inopportune times and hold you back.
So you might as well just unpack them.
There's lots for where that came from.
from but first a quick break for listeners out there who may be your fans who are young who are where you were you know 20 years ago the young charlie on the street who can't necessarily afford therapy or might be embarrassed to go to therapy.
What are you learning in therapy that could help you when you were dealing?
What could you have heard then that could have made your life better?
Um, that life really isn't as complicated as we make it.
Like, I'll be complaining to my therapist about stuff like social media.
And she always makes me angry because she'll say something so simple like, because she don't have it.
So she's like, so why don't you just put your phone down?
I'm like, I'm paying you $150 an hour to tell me the most obvious thing in the world.
But guess what?
It really is that simple.
Like, we choose to be addicted to our smartphones.
I mean, we know that they're naturally addictive, but just like any other addiction that's not good for you, you gotta cut the habit cold turkey.
So I would tell my younger self, like, life really isn't as simple.
Like, it's really complicated.
I have an idea for a book that I want to write one day, and somebody will probably steal it because I'm saying it now, but I want to write a book called, you know, Everything You Need to Know in Life You Learned in Kindergarten.
And it's really like the golden rule.
That book was written there, actually.
Oh, it's already out there?
Oh, I didn't even know.
It's a great book.
It's a great book.
It's like, clean up your own mess.
That's like one of the rules.
Remember, you have to put away your toys?
Yeah, New York Times never won bestseller.
If you'd written it, it's going to get a job.
You have to get up for it in the morning every day.
Right.
I mean, it's simple.
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
Treat people the way you want to be treated.
So I've been reading a lot over the summer because I have time to think a little bit.
So do unto others as you have them do unto you.
The word nice isn't in that.
It doesn't mean you have to be nice.
It means you got to treat them the way you treat yourself, which works both ways.
It means you can't be too harsh on yourself, but you also shouldn't let people get away with stuff they shouldn't be getting away with because they need you.
You called your dad out.
Yeah, hold people accountable and hold yourself accountable.
Yeah, and you would want one of your daughters, Thurwin's on the way, congratulations.
Thank you.
You want one of your daughters to tell you if you're messing up 20 years from now.
Yeah, you know what?
That's the other thing I would probably tell my younger self, too.
Hold yourself accountable.
I don't think we do enough of that.
Like, I know personally, I haven't held myself accountable enough.
You know, a lot of times, you'll read things about yourself.
Like, you'll read things about yourself in, like, magazines, or you'll see things people say about you on social media, and, like, you can't step outside of yourself to see what they see because you're so into your own situation.
So if, like, somebody's saying something about, oh, Charlemagne can be misogynistic, he can be sovinistic, I got plenty of women friends.
I love my wife.
What are you talking about?
But no, if I go back and I listen to some things I said four or five years ago, yes, it was misogynistic.
Yes, it was chauvinistic.
And it makes me feel uncomfortable.
But I'm glad that it makes me feel uncomfortable because that lets me know that I've grown.
Yeah.
You understand what I'm saying?
So yes, I would tell my younger self to hold yourself more accountable.
That's one thing I talk about in my book.
I have this whole chapter based off this T.I. record.
You know, T.I.'s one of my favorite rappers of all time.
And he has a song called Still Ain't Forgave Myself.
And he talks about on this road to wealth, you know, he still hasn't forgiven himself for a lot of the dirt that he did.
And I think a lot of times, you know, when we get out of the hood...
We're great.
We got out of the hood.
But what about all the people that we hurt in the hood?
Directly are indirectly.
You know, I think about, you know, a woman that we used to sell dope to who had a daughter whose daughter was like really smart, like super smart, 1600 on the SAT smart.
And she could have went to any college she wanted to, but she decided to stay in school in South Carolina.
But she would come home every weekend to watch her mom, you know, make sure her mom was good.
Eventually, coming home every weekend led to her just staying home and not even finishing school.
And I I think about stuff like that now.
Like, yo, we indirectly caused that young lady not to reach her full potential because she was so concerned about her mom selling dope.
Now, her mom, I mean, buying dope.
Her mom would have got dope from anywhere, but I feel like we played a part in that.
You know what I'm saying?
I think about the first time I went to jail, you know, instigating a situation with my big mouth and my homeboy ended up shooting at somebody.
We all went to jail for it.
Like, I think about those people we shot at.
Like, yo, I want to do, they suffer from some type of PSD, some type of trauma based off of that day.
So have you been able to forgive yourself for some of the things you're talking about right now?
Working on it.
Working on it.
Not wholeheartedly.
You know, I think that that's one reason I try to pay it forward so much.
You know, that's one reason I try to do so much for the community.
That's why I'm always doing book bag giveaways, turkey drives, or just being a mentor to kids, paying tuition.
It's like anything.
Like anything positive.
Like I just try to do...
Way more positive in my life.
And I'm pretty sure if I looked at my life for the past 40 years, I had a way more positive life than I did a negative life.
My negative stretch was only a span of maybe five years, six years at the most.
So I've done way more positive than negative.
But sometimes it's just very hard not to think about...
All that negative that you have done.
So how do you get to the many, it's often men, young men, who have that five-year stretch of bad.
They end up tattooing themselves with some of that baggage for the rest of their life.
How do I help?
How do you help them either not do it in the first place or get past it?
Yeah, I mean, that's the best advice I can give you, but I mean, that never works, right?
Like, smart people learn from their own mistakes.
Wise people learn from the mistakes of others.
But when you're young, you're not wise.
You know what I mean?
You're not wise.
So you got to put your hand on the stove to realize it is hot and burn yourself.
Like, yeah, you can go out there and tell these kids all day all the mistakes you made, the things to avoid, the things not to do, and they will still go out there and make those mistakes.
The only thing we can do...
It's tried.
Like, you know what I'm saying?
That's the only thing we can do.
The only thing we can do is tell people.
Like, I always say, I'm not an expert at nothing.
You're an expert.
You're an actual doctor.
I'm not an expert at nothing.
I just have some experiences, and I share my experiences, and I hope that you learn from them.
That's it.
So that's the only thing I can do is tell people, like, look, don't go down that road.
I'm telling you everything that's down that road.
That's what my father did to me.
Luckily, I was one of those kids that started to register a little early, 17, 18, like when I actually started going to jail or seeing people around me actually go do long prison sentences or seeing people actually around me get killed.
My father's favorite saying was, if you don't change your lifestyle, you're going to end up in jail, dead, or broke sitting under the tree.
When I started seeing my older cousins and people that I thought was really cool in the hood actually under the tree.
Oh, gosh.
Broke looking, washed up.
When you start seeing things actually happen and a little bit, enough of it is happening to you for you to realize, you know what, my pops is right.
So I was one of those people that got wise real early and had just enough experiences and saw just enough to be like, he's right, let me get on the right path.
So you've been in jail.
Yep.
In America, you're a young African-American male and you have a record.
You were lucky.
You got a great job.
It's hard once you have a record to get hired.
Oh, who are you telling?
I never believed in lying about it.
And I was willing to work anywhere.
I was willing to work jobs before I got to my career.
I worked at Taco Bell.
I worked at Demo in the Mall.
I worked at a telemarketing place called Paragon Solutions where I was the guy that used to call your house and try to sell you 10 CDs for a penny.
You know, so I would work regular jobs, and then, you know, I met this dude named Willie Wilson, and I just asked him, how did he get in the radio?
And he was like, I just went down there and got an internship.
Now, this is 1998 in Charleston, South Carolina, so times were totally different.
Didn't have to be in school, none of that stuff like that, and I got an internship.
So, people gave me an opportunity, and I think that's the one thing that's kind of lacking in this era, like, Kids aren't really getting just opportunities.
Like, don't get me wrong, if you go to school and stuff like that, you can get an internship.
But what about the kid who didn't go to school?
What about the kid who just got a raw talent, a raw gift of gab, but it's not in school?
How are they going to get a shot?
Luckily, I, for whatever reason, got a shot.
I don't know if I necessarily believe in luck, but for whatever reason, the universe gave me an opportunity.
Well, luck favors the prepared mind.
You were hustling the whole time.
You were always working, as you said.
You weren't sitting under the tree.
Yes.
No, what your wife said is real, because I believe in this acronym called Positive Energy Activates Constant Elevation.
My mindset was, I'm not going back to the street because all that does is create negative energy, so it creates stagnation.
But if I work at telemarketing, if I do telemarketing, if I work at the mall, if I got this internship at the radio station, I'm doing something.
All of that positive energy activates some type of elevation in your life.
So that's real.
Like, just go do something.
I tell these kids, go do something.
Find something to do.
Go cut grass.
I used to cut grass.
I used to go pick up cans out of the ditch and put them in bags and take them to the recycling center.
Like, go find something to do.
We got a lot more to discuss, so stay with us right after the break.
Anxiety.
Mm-hmm.
Which probably drove you to a lot of that.
Was that your superpower?
Yeah.
All right.
Okay.
Yes.
I'm conflicted about that now, too.
And it's funny because I just wrote the book.
I say anxiety.
Anxiety is fear.
And I feel like you have to learn how to use...
Learn how to turn that fear into fuel.
Because that's what it is.
I think a lot of times, you know, I thought I did a lot of things because I was fearless.
But I realized, no, I did a lot of things because I was actually scared.
You know, like when my father would say to me, you're going to end up in jail, dead, or broke under the tree, that...
It scared me.
It scared me to do the right thing.
It's the reason they have a TV show called Scared Straight.
You understand what I'm saying?
So sometimes you can access that fear and that fear can lead you to positive things, but then also that fear can do the opposite.
It can cripple you.
It can make you not want to move.
It can make you just stick around and sit there.
You know, I have an acronym that I write in the book.
My homegirl Kay Fox, she sent it to me one time, is FEAR. And FEAR can either stand for face everything and rise, or fear everything and run.
So I chose to face everything and rise.
Some people choose to fear everything and run.
Those are the people who don't get what they should out of life.
I think a lot of people in fear will build little barricades to protect themselves, not realizing that when you put enough of those barricades up, you're actually putting yourself in a cage.
Yes.
And you're blocked in, you can't go anywhere with that, which is why...
Going through failure early in life is actually a blessing in some ways, as long as you can cope with it.
But we're all going to fail, and men in particular, because men spend their whole lives building big statues to themselves, right?
Ozymandias was a great classic poem about this huge structure that now, of course, has melted away, because it always does.
All men fall at some point.
When we fall, we've got to deal with the realities of it, which is why the fact that we don't have a way of helping people who are messing up in their teens, which is a classic, because the male brain, female, neither gender brain, Is ready in the late teens to deal with the modern world.
That's why we send young people off to war.
Because they'll do it.
If I say, hey, Charlemagne, come on down.
We're going to draft you for the war.
We're sending you off to Iraq.
You're not going to go.
That's real.
What are you talking about?
But at 17, I'll go.
You don't know any better.
Better than Monk's Corner.
I'll run over there.
Maybe I'll save the country.
That's what I tell kids about college.
Even if you don't want to go to school, when you're 17, 18, just go.
At least spend the next four years...
Getting a degree.
You know what I'm saying?
It's better than sitting around doing nothing at all.
Well, I think part of the nothing at all is, you know, it's avoidance of what makes you uncomfortable.
And I think that's why you slip into addiction, too.
Because you just don't want to deal with that anxiety, that fear, that feeling of not knowing where you're going or what's going on in your life.
So you avoid it.
You check out.
You tune out.
You're absolutely right.
And, you know, like, that's why when you asked me the question, I said I was a little conflicted because, like, I grew up a very religious person, you know, and I'm still a very—well, I grew up a very religious person, but now I'm more of a spiritual person.
I know that's the trendy thing to say now.
I'm not religious.
I'm spiritual.
But, you know, my mother was a Jehovah Witness.
My grandmother was a Baptist.
My father was a witness, but then he started studying Islam.
So I always had this spiritual foundation underneath me, and they always tell you that you have to walk in faith, not fear, right?
That's almost like not even giving you a license to be afraid.
It feels like when you're afraid, you're doing something wrong, you know?
So it's just like, even now, when I have those feelings of anxiety at 40 years old, and I know I'm a God-fearing man, and I know I pray all the time, and I know I'm just always trying to do what God wants me to do, you feel like you're kind of like...
Not in tune with God the way you need to be?
You're not as close to God as you need to be?
Because maybe if I was closer to God, I wouldn't have these feelings of fear?
So that's where the confliction comes into play.
It's not going to make you not have those feelings.
You're still going to be fearful.
You're just going to turn them over to something higher than to God, right?
To something higher than you are.
So it's not like they're going to go away.
You're going to say, okay, I've got faith now.
I'm never going to feel anything fearful.
I think courage comes from having fear and doing it anyway, acting anyway.
And having faith means you're going to have those fears, but you're going to live with God in spite of those fears because you know that ultimately God's got your back.
Yes.
That's why, you know, I love the breathing exercises my therapist gives me.
You know, you just put your hands flat on the surface and you just...
Take a deep breath.
And when I take that deep breath, I say, God, I may not understand what I'm going through right now, but I know that you're walking me through it.
And that makes you feel better.
It does.
You talk a little bit about people that you've experienced in life.
People getting shot at, people getting killed even, people left behind under the tree without a job.
Do you have survivor's guilt at all?
A million, billion, trillion percent.
Yes.
I got a whole chapter in the book.
Shook going, A call about survivor's guilt and survivor's remorse because that's how I feel.
I feel like that every day.
Sitting here with y'all right now, I don't feel like I'm worthy to even have this conversation.
I was at this radio conference like last week and, you know, it's me and my man Bobby Bones.
You know, Bobby Bones is like the big nationally syndicated country personality.
That's my guy.
That's like one of my best friends.
And it's like, I'm sitting there and we're talking to like 400 people and, you know, all of these people are holding on to every word and they're looking at us like, yo, this is what I want to do.
And I'm like, I had to tell him like, I don't even feel like I'm supposed to be here talking to y'all right now.
Like, that's honestly how I constantly feel.
Like, yo, what did I do to get put in this position?
I tell my wife that all the time.
Like, what did I do to be here?
You know what I mean?
I mean, don't get me wrong.
I had big dreams, big goals, big aspirations, but I literally did nothing other than say I don't want to do what I was doing anymore.
Like, it was really just that simple.
Monk's Corner, South Carolina, All my friends are going left.
I'm going right.
Simple as that.
Yeah, but you did something that's really, really hard, which is you told yourself the truth.
And the people we tell the worst lies, the most damaging lies to ourselves, right?
And then people, you know, they say they're thinking, actually, it's just really just self-criticism in the brain.
It's all just, you know, you're on that hamster wheel telling yourself how incompetent and unworthy you are.
And you're...
You've been able to get past that, which takes a lot of effort and it's very brave.
And survivor's guilt sucks too, especially when you come from a small town like mine.
When you come from a small town and that small town has been so much of your existence, but then you feel disconnected from that small town because you really don't have anything in common with the people there anymore.
And you go there and you have to play one of two roles.
You have to go there and try to keep it super real.
Which means going places that could hinder everything you got going on now.
You know what I'm saying?
You're in the hood.
The dudes are dead.
They still got their guns.
They're still selling their drugs.
And you're out there kicking it with them just to prove that you're real.
Or you got to do the exact opposite and not be around.
And then they say, oh, you're fake.
You done went Hollywood, blah, blah, blah.
And then when you're in the hood, everybody's trying to overcompensate the fact that you may make them feel...
Just a little bit inferior.
So they trying to...
Ah, man, whatever.
Like, they talking to you crazy.
Like, oh, you can't buy me a beer?
I know you got it.
Like, stupid stuff like that.
So it's like you damned if you do, you damned if you don't.
So me, I'd rather just create my own little ecosystem and do what's gonna make...
Me happy.
Even if it means having to disconnect myself from my hood.
When was the last time you were back in Monk's Corner?
I was actually there last...
I had my book bag drive last weekend and then I was there the weekend before last.
Oh, so you go back.
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
I mean, that's still my...
It's my core, because I love to go to my grandmother's house and just pray.
My grandmother's dead, but I like that plot of land that her house is still on, and it's this porch that we grew up on, and I just like to go on that porch and pray.
It's so funny, because I have been going through a lot, and I went home, and it was raining, and I was in my grandmother's yard praying.
I was in the same field that I always used to play in when I was a kid, and I was praying.
I love it there, because it's like...
God silences my brain when I'm there.
So it's like I don't hear nothing but Him.
So as I'm praying, I literally hear Him like, I got this.
Relax.
And then I look up and I see a rainbow.
So it's just like stuff like that.
I still believe in, like I said, I'm one of those weird people who believe in God.
I still believe in God.
So it's just like I saw the rainbow and I was like, wow, okay, cool.
If you could say one thing to the young man you were at your lowest, what would it be?
What's the advice that you think might resonate for people listening right now who just don't think they're ever going to get out?
I would tell them that this too shall pass.
And everything's going to be alright.
But you have to want it to be alright.
Like, you know, I always say destiny's not a matter of chance.
It's a matter of choice.
So you have to make good choices.
And I've always been that way.
When I say hold myself accountable, it's like, you know, I don't blame other people for my problems.
You know, I always ask myself, what did I do to get here?
Because nine times out of ten, you did something to put yourself in this position.
You made a poor choice or, you know, you made a wrong decision.
And sometimes, you know, the poor choice may lead you over here for a second, but really you're supposed to be over there because it's a quicker way to get to where you actually were supposed to go.
So I would just tell them that, yo, this too shall pass and just make sure you're making good choices.
I didn't make a lot of good choices when I was young.
I made a lot of, you know, poor choices.
But they got better.
They definitely got better.
They got better because I started making better choices.
So just every day, you're out there making a better choice than you made yesterday.
That's it.
That's all I can tell myself.
That's why I hate when people try to hold you accountable for things you did or said years ago.
It's like I'm not even that person anymore.
You know what I mean?
That's why social media is so dangerous because you see these people, they get all these old tweets and old Facebook posts and old blogs pulled up.
And I'm like...
Yo, you really gonna hold them accountable for that?
That was 15 years ago.
Now, if their narrative hasn't changed 15 years later, yes, we can use that to reinforce, like, this guy has been a piece of feces for a long time, and this woman has been a piece of feces for a long time.
Yes, hold them to this.
But, yo, if you've clearly seen their narrative change, allow the growth, allow the evolution.