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Jan. 14, 2026 - Owen Shroyer Live
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dr peter mccullough
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owen shroyer
winn 20:34
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owen shroyer
Are here today on the Ask the Doctor show with the great Dr. Peter McCullough.
We've caught him between marathons.
He already ran a marathon this morning.
He's going to do this interview real quick.
He's going to go run another marathon.
I've outed you here, Doctor.
I've outed you for what your plans for the day is.
But it's good to be joined by you.
dr peter mccullough
Well, great.
I think my marathon running days are over with.
But you know, Owen, I turned out I ran a marathon in every state in the United States.
Have you ever had a guest who've done that?
owen shroyer
No, I can't say I've met anybody that does that.
Is that a normal milestone or is that something that you kind of came up with?
dr peter mccullough
I was a personal milestone.
You know, you register to do this and it's got to be certified.
And there's a celebratory award ceremony at the end.
It took me about eight.
It took me actually eight years.
owen shroyer
So I'd say that's a pretty good rate right there.
I'd say 50 states.
Well, there might have to be a 51st state soon.
I don't know if you want to go on there.
There we go.
dr peter mccullough
Well, Greenland's going to be tough.
You know, I thought about doing seven continents because I had picked up Europe, had North America, obviously.
But you know what stopped me was Antarctica.
Very, very difficult just to actually the time involved and how to orchestrate it.
So I gave up, but I'll stick at 50 states.
owen shroyer
Yeah, you have to get special permission to go down there.
Just curious, is it easier to run in a high altitude, low altitude, high heat, low heat?
Do you have a preference or what?
dr peter mccullough
I think lower altitude, lower heat, dry.
I got to tell you, I ran Kona.
It's the same course that they do for the Kona Triathlon.
Getting out in the lava fields out in Kona was absolutely brutal.
And, you know, I can tell you some other ones, Knoxville, we had University of Tennessee when we finished in the volunteer stadium.
Those hills, anybody who's a Tennessee volunteer will know those hills going into the stadium were crushing.
It was fun to carry the football, though, across the goal line.
owen shroyer
Yeah, the 120,000 seat stadium there in Tennessee.
That's cool.
All right, Dr. McCullough, let's get down to some business.
I want to start with something that happened yesterday that we've kind of known about.
And then every once in a while, we get reminded of these things.
You know, the news cycle is crazy.
And it's hard to even believe, but it's been seven years since COVID.
And we went through all of that nonsense.
But here we are today.
So Rand Paul was on Joe Rogan and said that criminal referrals were sent to the DOJ, sent to Pambondi's desk for Anthony Fauci.
And I think I can only think of one recent public appearance by Fauci.
It was at some event in D.C.
But the point is, nobody's following through here, Doctor.
Now, is this something in your mind, in your eyes, is this something that you can just kind of forget, forgive, and walk away from?
Or do we need to turn the heat back up?
Do we need to dial the focus back up here?
dr peter mccullough
No, I agree with Ram Paul and what he's doing.
You know, his book, Deception, is really a wonderfully written book.
By the way, Rand Paul and I went to Baylor together in Waco at the same time, believe it or not.
And so I had a chance to catch up with him in his office in his Senate office in the last few months.
And, you know, he had told me that, in fact, he was going to pursue this, either through DOJ or find some other special counsel or some other mechanism.
I think what Pam Bondi and DOJ are doing, though, is they're weighing out what is the validity of this 10 years of clemency that was awarded to Fauci for his crimes committed by the Biden administration, whether that was a Biden autopen or not.
But no, we should not forgive and forget.
Fauci committed two major crimes.
One is fraudulent concealment of the origins of SARS-CoV-2, and the other is mass negligent homicide.
This is very important.
He participated in the mass negligent homicide by the dismissal and the continued undermining of our early treatment approaches, myself and others in the community, and then by pushing unsafe, ineffective, and in fact, fatal for some COVID-19 genetic vaccines.
owen shroyer
Yeah, and I guess maybe part of it is the public doesn't have that general understanding, right?
And that's kind of what we were up against in the beginning.
It's the gain of function research.
It was the bad health protocols.
Quite frankly, I think, you know, from my point of view, a lot of influence that resulted in unconstitutional policy from Trump's first administration.
He doesn't seem to be sweating it, though.
He doesn't seem to be too nervous.
Neither do the Clintons.
So it seems to be a pattern here.
Is it public pressure?
Is it public awareness?
I mean, certainly we're talking about it now.
Certainly Rand Paul mentioning that and now his new book coming out.
This is going to probably maybe raise focus up a little bit, but I don't know.
I don't know if the DOJ is interested in our concerns right now.
dr peter mccullough
I think you hit it, Owen.
It's public pressure.
Our DOJ seems to respond to public pressure.
Remember when Pam Bondi and the DOJ dropped all the charges against the anesthesiologist who had, you know, with the patient's consent, not given the COVID vaccine?
So I think it's public pressure.
The DOJ is lacking inertia on many of these civil liberties issues.
And so we need to push them.
owen shroyer
Now, when you think about the different angles, because they want to go after, you know, perjury, that's kind of the politician's angle when they're sitting there and looking at it.
But what about from a medical angle?
What about from the angle of this is a doctor, you know, the Remdesivir push or the protocols with the masks, the vaccines, and experimental injection.
Is there another avenue?
Is there another angle that you as a doctor look at this phenomenon and think, no, this is the approach to expose Anthony Fauci?
This is the approach that whether it's another hearing or the DOJ, this is the avenue that they can go down?
dr peter mccullough
It has to do with this idea of a willful intent.
Did Fauci truly intend to hurt people through these actions?
And can public policy ultimately translate into patient care?
When it comes to Rem Desivir, for instance, his support of Rem Desivir, but also involved in there is Alex Azar and Xavier Bechera, the HHS secretaries, former cabinet members, who in a sense frontlined Rem Desivir against the guidance of the World Health Organization.
So World Health Organization has examined this.
It's been published.
The WHO Solidarity Group has followed up on this.
Remdesivir provided no benefit to people in the hospital and provided only an opportunity for toxicity, both kidney and liver toxicity.
But those are going to be a difficult set of arguments.
I know what they want to do is perjury.
You know, you lied under sworn testimony.
And, you know, I've testified five times in the U.S. Senate and once in the House of Representatives.
I'm going back again this spring.
And so, you know, I've done it myself and we have to be careful.
But perjury is not nearly as severe of a crime as fraudulent concealment and mass negligent homicide.
owen shroyer
Would you like to see gain of function research stopped worldwide?
Yes.
Now, I look at it from that angle and I'm just thinking the whole thing could have been stopped if they weren't cooking up these viruses in the lab.
Now, I guess people could debate whether it was released intentionally or not, but there's no debate anymore that it did come from a lab.
What about this, what we witnessed seven years ago, the practice of centralized power, which this is why the wellness company and the team of doctors that you guys have, really, you guys were heroes for many Americans, but you guys, you kind of raised the bar in this regard.
This idea of a centralized health protocol system, they wanted to take away that doctor relationship.
They wanted to take away the doctor relationship with their patient and say, no, we're making the decisions now.
And they wanted to take that away from you.
You know, you guys stood up for that in the time.
And honestly, we might not even be able to measure how important that work was.
But here we are.
We're not in a centralized healthcare tyranny.
You know, they're still kind of pushing for it.
But what about that?
How do we make sure that people understand that we need to maintain the doctor-patient relationship and keep some entity, some powerful entity, you know, thousands of miles away from making these decisions locally?
dr peter mccullough
Oh, there's actually a great series of points you just made.
Remember, medicine is like law and like a lot of other areas of professional activity.
Different opinions matter.
No two doctors agree on anything.
No two lawyers agree on anything.
Can you imagine if there was a central legal authority where every lawyer was identical to every other lawyer?
I mean, Owen, think about this.
Now, there was a huge threat, which was the World Health Organization, the international harmonization and the rules.
Fortunately, Trump pulled us out of the WHO, but the WHO is going to be able to actually call all the shots on the next pandemic.
And all the experts agree it's coming out of another lab because of gain of function research and the development of biological threats, the development of new pathogens that can get the whole world sick, and then antidotes like vaccines or therapeutics.
This is the new era.
It's replacing nuclear armaments and nuclear defenses.
This is the new era of warfare.
Whoever holds the biological threat and who holds an answer like a vaccine, they hold power.
And that's what Fauci was involved with, Ralph Barrick at UNC Chapel Hill, who seems to be untouchable.
Peter Desick at the EcoHealth Alliance, the Chinese Communist Party in Wuhan, China.
There are biolabs across Ukraine at risk.
So, Owen, this is big business.
It's a trillion-dollar business.
It's funded by big players like the Gates Foundation, the Rockefeller Foundation, the Wellcome Trust.
All the governments are involved.
So just dropping government funding is not enough.
The Biden administration wrote rules on this in the summer of 2024, which are incredibly permissive.
They said, listen, you can do this in your lab.
You just need to kind of voluntarily report what you're doing.
This is nuts.
This is like having your university lab developing nuclear bombs and there's no oversight.
owen shroyer
Well, and also what we witnessed, and you kind of just touched on it too, it's like, you know, big pharma is over here drooling at the mouth and they're thinking, oh, if another virus gets out, well, I'm set to make billions of dollars on the vaccine rollout and, you know, any other things that may come along and be conveniently profitable for us.
You know, this is another element that was very important that we realized and exposed during the whole COVID scandemic.
And again, this is what led to the wellness company being created.
This is what led to the doctors forming the wellness company.
You are listening to Ask the Doctor, our guest today, Dr. Peter McCullough.
Brought to you by the wellness company.
Visit twc.health slash owen for all your personal medical needs.
And we'll talk about that here because I want to transition into the flu season we're in now.
And I'd like to know what your perspective on this is because I've noticed, I don't know if I could say it's worse than COVID, but I don't know, maybe it is.
It's hard because we had so much propaganda there.
I've got people falling over sick left and right all around me.
And I'm sitting here and I'm like, boy, this, it seems like it was maybe like COVID or worse.
I've got more friends getting sick.
Now, we don't have the propaganda on TV and the death numbers and everything driving the hysteria and the fear, but yet I look around and almost all my friends have come down with this.
Some of them have been sick for a week or two, really, really sick, not just like a normal flu, but like really, really sick.
And I'm just scratching my head.
I'm saying, there's nothing really about this in the news.
There's no big news cycle talking about this, which is fine.
People get sick.
Illnesses come and go.
The flu comes and go.
But it's just like this reminder that there was so much fear and hype and hysteria and propaganda over COVID.
Here we are going through a pretty significant flu season, I'd say, with a lot of people getting sick and virtually nobody's talking about it.
You know, I think that that's a kind of, to me, it's a big indicator that, yeah, the propaganda was driving the pandemic, I think, more than the virus.
dr peter mccullough
Oh, so true.
And what we're talking about is what's called super flu.
There were reports across Europe and the UK, then it hit the United States.
It's H3N2 influenza.
It is more serious.
It's not covered by the vaccines at all.
And, you know, three quarters of at-risk people for this take the vaccine.
So the flu shot obviously doesn't work.
Masks don't work.
I haven't had it yet, Owen.
I use a nasal spray and throat spray or gargle twice a day religiously.
And that's your best defense against doing that.
A wellness company has immune defense.
So if you go to twc.health forward slash Owen, you get immune defense.
It comes as a pair of a nasal spray and throat spray.
Do it twice a day.
Have a gargle ready to go.
You know, scope, Listerine, SPRY, all of those are fine.
Do that twice a day.
And then have a black emergency kit.
This is very important.
It's a contagion kit.
It has in it ulcer temivir, which actually knocks out the flu, but it must be started on day one.
You can't wait three days and go to urgent care.
So if there's a fever, body aches, you know, rapid development of nasal congestion, it probably is super flu.
Get on it right away.
twc.health forward slash Owen.
owen shroyer
So are you seeing that too, though?
Do you have a lot of people that speak to you patients that are getting sick with this?
Again, I don't know.
It's hard because COVID, there was so much propaganda.
But since this is really kind of a natural organic thing, we're not hearing about it.
I'm just, I'm noticing, wow, a lot of my friends are getting sick here.
It does seem like there's a lot of sickness going around, but no fear, no pushing of a vaccine, a lockdown.
I'm not, I guess some people are wearing masks, but it really just heightened it for me.
Like, yeah, the media picks and chooses when they're going to make a flu season, a flu season.
dr peter mccullough
Right.
And you know, we think investigative reporting by Lisa Myron, maybe somebody you want on the show from Toronto, has reported on what's called WHO National Focal Points, NFPs.
There's 140 of these worldwide.
Ours is PAHO, the Pan American Health Organization in Washington, D.C.
It actually turns out the WHO controls all this messaging.
So when there's something that came out on COVID, Owen, it hit every news bureau all at the same time.
That's the reason why there's this uniformity in terms of driving the pandemic narrative.
It came through WHO.
owen shroyer
So one result of going through that pandemic scandemic was people started questioning vaccines again.
I think, you know, probably that was the heaviest national push for vaccines.
I mean, obviously, when you go into a hospital with your kid or the doctor's office, a lot of them are going to be pushing vaccines, obviously, to get into some public schools and such.
There's public pressure, but nothing like what we saw for COVID.
And so it kind of caused a lot of people to become vaccine skeptical, maybe even anti-vaccine.
These were some of the side effects.
And so now the Trump administration, I think, has had a pretty healthy response.
We might want it to go further, but I'd say it's been a healthy response.
They come out, they announced that there's a new childhood vaccine schedule.
What were your initial thoughts on that, your initial reactions on that?
Do you think the work is done there?
Do you think we need to go further?
But yet, here we are.
I'd say it's good news for Make America Healthy Again and the people that support it.
dr peter mccullough
Sure.
The health freedom community cheered for this, Owen.
You know, and the McCullough Foundation played a big role.
So McCullough Foundation here in Dallas published a report, the determinants of autism spectrum disorder on October 27th, 2025.
We sent it to HHS, Robert F. Kennedy, everybody involved at the White House.
And then within three weeks, the CDC changes its language on the website and says, you know, vaccines, you know, they haven't been ruled out in causing autism and given in these big bundles.
And then sure enough, within 90 days, Trump just forgets Robert F. Kennedy, forgets the Advisory Committee for Immunization Practices, the ACIP panel.
And Trump just works with Jim O'Neill, who's not a medical person, and says, trim the schedule.
And so O'Neill trimmed it to make it look similar to Denmark.
And that's a good reference point.
Denmark's a small country, but it has better control over communicable diseases than the United States anyway.
And it trimmed it from 17 vaccine-preventable diseases to 11, and then it reduced the number of doses by 55 doses.
So, you know, that's a big start.
That reduces the burden of vaccines on children.
But I think the two big ones that people are most concerned about are older vaccines that are given in combination.
The first one is diphtheria, tetanus, and pertussis.
Reason why people are concerned is that's been linked to these acute reactions where the kids get sick and then develop autism.
And number two, the bugs here, the bacteria, are getting resistant to DPT.
So we're having pertussis outbreaks.
It's obvious that the bacteria are becoming resistant to the vaccine.
So it's kind of becoming relatively useless.
And the other one is MMR, measles, mumps, rubella.
That was the first one linked to autism in the Lancet report by Andrew Wakefield in 1998, the seminal report.
So, you know, I think where we're heading is just complete freedom of choice.
And Florida's leading the way.
There's going to be no vaccine requirements or mandates whatsoever.
So it's going to be free choice whether or not kids take vaccines and it's going to be a decision between the doctor and the parents.
owen shroyer
Well, you love to hear that.
And I think that that ultimately is where it needs to go.
And, you know, the logic to me lands on if you want to get the vaccine and you think it's going to protect you or in this case, your child, then you should feel confident in that regard and you shouldn't worry about the other students or the other parents or people not being vaccinated.
But I do think that that kind of reveals the fear.
I think that it reveals the nature of fear kind of behind this.
You know, I'm in my mid-30s.
A lot of my friends are having kids right now.
A lot of them are having kids at the same time.
And, you know, I've got a diverse group of friends politically.
And I've got two specifically that had kids virtually the exact same time.
And one of the parents are all the vaccines, like any vaccine, like whatever, we're going to give it to them.
And then the other parents are no vaccines, not going to give them any vaccine.
And so it's literally the total polar opposites.
Now, I can only imagine what it's going to be like watching these two kids grow up.
I think that we all kind of have seen it maybe in our personal lives with other families.
You know, Katie Miller just went on her podcast and talked about how her oldest kids got the vaccines, her youngest kids didn't.
And she's noticing.
She's noticing her younger kids are growing healthier and stronger and bigger.
They don't have any allergies while her older kids are, you know, runny nose all the time, allergic to peanuts, all this other stuff.
So it's like, you want people to be made, you want people to be able to make a rational decision, not a fear-based decision.
And I feel like that so much of these decisions are made out of fear.
How do we get people to get confidence back in their own immune system?
dr peter mccullough
Well, Owen, they're made out of fear, but they're also made because of these requirements.
You know, in a lot of states in California, your kids can't go to school unless they take these shots.
You know, in Dallas, if the kids want to go to parochial schools, they can't go to school unless they take the shots.
So the requirements and the mandates need to go.
It needs to be returned to risk benefit.
And you're right, individual protection should be the key strategy here.
And as a doctor, you know, I can tell you, I know who needs to get vaccines and who doesn't.
And in the McCullough Foundation report, healthy children, 12 studies show healthy children, as you indicated, are healthier if they're completely unvaccinated.
And remember, the Amish, the Mennonites, other sex, they don't take vaccines and they've been fine for all these years.
Now we're probably at about 10% of children are not taking vaccines.
That comes from a recent paper from Mawson and colleagues from Florida: 10%.
Texas, we have medical, religious, and philosophical exemptions.
You go to the website, download the form, fill it out, get it notarized, and take it to school.
And kids can go to public school, no vaccines.
You're going to see a lot more of that.
However, I would tell you that if I had a child who their spleen was removed because of treatment for Hodgkin's disease, as an example, I feel very strongly that they need the pneumococcal haemophilus influenza meningococcal vaccines, very strongly.
And that happened in my brother-in-law.
I told him, listen, you need to get these shots.
So, you know, at-risk children, children with cystic fibrosis and lung disease, they should get the respiratory panel of vaccines.
There has to be a sufficient risk for the benefits to really be manifested in a vaccine.
No vaccine provides perfect coverage, Owen.
You know, people are most terrified about polio.
We haven't had polio in the Western hemisphere now for 20 years, the natural polio strain.
But you know what?
Even in the Salk field trials, and this is all in our book, Vaccines, Mythology, Ideology, and Reality.
We actually have the U.S. vital statistics on this.
In the Salk field trials, mid-1950s, 1.8 million children were tested with the new vaccine.
There were only 1.2 million.
There were only a couple hundred cases of polio occurred in 1.8 million.
And the vaccine was only 60 to 70% protective.
So even the polio vaccine is not perfect.
owen shroyer
Well, and you have to look back on all of this now and wonder what was the propaganda like when they were rolling that out, right?
Everything we witnessed in COVID, it's like now you kind of have to re-question everything.
You kind of have to go back and say, well, did they, did they do a similar thing to push these polio vaccines?
And I'm listening, and I'm listening to you talking.
I'm thinking of an analogy.
It's like, it'd be like if I went to the doctor, it's like, okay, here's my arm right here.
And I went to the doctor and I said, doctor, can you give me stitches right here?
And he said, why?
You don't have a cut.
Your skin is fine.
I say, no, I need stitches.
I need stitches right here.
That's what it is.
They're going out and they're getting these vaccines and it's totally unnecessary.
It'd be like, I haven't got stitches on my perfectly healthy skin here.
dr peter mccullough
Okay, so you raised an important point.
We use stitches when there's a laceration, right?
Or we prescribe a medication when there's a medical problem.
Vaccines are given to people with no medical problems.
They're perfectly healthy.
Okay.
So vaccines are at a totally different safety standard, totally different.
A vaccine better be perfectly safe because we're giving it to a perfectly healthy person.
Can you imagine a perfectly healthy person takes a vaccine, let's say a flu vaccine, and they're paralyzed forever the rest of their life with Guillain-Bray syndrome.
It's in the package insert, Owen.
Or how about taking a COVID shot, having myocarditis and a cardiac arrest?
That's in the peer-reviewed literature.
So my view as a clinician is unless a vaccine is perfectly safe, it has no role to be given in a perfectly healthy person because it can, you know, it can knock somebody down and have the harms far outweigh any theoretical benefits.
We can treat everything.
We don't need vaccines.
owen shroyer
And I go back to the fear-based decision-making process that I think a lot of people engage in, maybe when they're making a lot of medical decisions, including with vaccines.
And I go back to even when COVID was going around, because when I got hit with it, I assume I had COVID.
I don't know.
I never got tested, but it was January 2020, and I never get sick.
And that basically had me, had me out on my back for about a week.
So I'm assuming I had it.
And I could imagine if I didn't have confidence in my own immune system or I didn't have confidence in my own health, I could imagine, you know, I'm seeing all the fear, I'm seeing the death numbers.
You know, I could imagine being scared and maybe wanting to go to a hospital or get connected to a ventilator or all the other stuff that went down.
How do we get people, how do we get people to be confident in their immune system?
You know, I take a bunch of supplements, I exercise.
Are there products that the wellness company has that can help people build their immune system?
How do we get people to regain that confidence in their immune system?
dr peter mccullough
Well, first thing is people need to be good looking and fit like Owen Schroer.
Let me tell you.
owen shroyer
That takes a lot of work, though.
dr peter mccullough
But listen, if I could grow my hair and grow a beard and look as cool as you, man, I'd be soaring.
No, the issue is that we do have to be thin and in shape.
And in 2020, by the way, I got COVID shortly after you, both my wife and I did.
You know, to be thin and in shape, you're more likely to be able to survive anything when you're fit and in shape, number one.
Number two, there are strategies to boost the immune system.
So the nasal sprays and gargles kind of knock down the virus so your own nasal mucosal system can actually work.
So the nasal sprays and gargles are a great strategy.
We have immune defense from wellness company.
Now, on top of that, I think everybody should take a broad-based multivitamin, vitamin D, at least 10,000 units a day with at least 200 micrograms of vitamin K2.
Again, broad-based multivitamins include the fat, soluble, and water cellular vitamins.
And then there's specific immune boosters.
Natural Immunity from the Wellness Company love that product.
It has in it Bilberry and oregano.
Those are immune boosters.
Other immune boosters are Echinacea, Elderberry.
And there is a strategy to boost the immune system with supplements.
And I'm like you, Owen, I take a lot more supplements now than I did before the pandemic.
And I'm doing the twice daily nasal sprays and gargles.
I'm way healthier now than I was in 2020.
I was a frequent contributor on Fox and still am 2020 and 2021.
I was sick virtually every time I went to the Fox studio here in Dallas.
It was ridiculous.
Now I'm healthy.
I feel great, but it is using the strategy that the wellness company puts forward.
owen shroyer
And we're looking at some of these products now, folks.
Remember, twc.help/slash owen.
There's the natural immunity product.
Well, and you know what's so great about when you get into supplements and you do the kind of research, you can cater, you can cater what the supplements and the results that you're looking for.
When you guys were thinking about a natural immunity supplement, what were the ingredients that you were looking at?
You were saying this is going to have the best effect on people to make their immune system as strong as possible.
So if they do get a flu bug or something, their body is ready to fight it and you can get out of that in a couple of days.
dr peter mccullough
Yeah, good point.
Well, don't forget, natural immunity, we recommend every day.
Now, when you get sick, you certainly can boost the dose, but zinc is on there because it inhibits the viral replication.
Vitamin C is on there.
It has antiviral effects for sure.
Bilberry, oregano, you know, these are important ingredients.
And so I take it every day.
In fact, I'm going to go check on my mom who's in a senior home here in Dallas after this.
And, you know, mom's on this.
And let me tell you, these nursing homes are really high risk for passing colds and flu.
My mom has been really healthy now for years on natural immunity.
owen shroyer
She doesn't take the flu vaccine?
dr peter mccullough
No, we've steered her away from that.
She did not take the COVID vaccine and nor did she take the flu vaccine.
Owen, you can't imagine the pressure they put on people in these senior homes.
They essentially locked them in their room and said, you can't have freedom unless you take one of these shots.
But my mom held strong and she didn't get it.
owen shroyer
Unfortunately, I do know a little bit about that.
I have a grandmother.
I don't know about, I don't know as much about the pressure, but I do know it's there.
And, you know, you do marketing is targeted for good reason, but a lot of the propaganda when it comes to this stuff, I think is aimed at elderly people.
And you can understand you're older, you're more concerned about your health.
You're a little, you know, maybe you're more susceptible to certain things when you get older.
So you can kind of respect that mindset from our elders.
But at the same time, they need to know that, hey, you can still boost and have a strong immune system just like anybody else.
But it does feel like they really try to target whether it's whether it's elderly care homes or just the elderly in general, they really seem to target them with the seasonal flu vaccines the most.
unidentified
Right.
owen shroyer
And it all comes with informed consent.
dr peter mccullough
Right.
And the messaging is there's nothing you can do except take a vaccine.
And, you know, there's nothing further from the truth.
We talked about immune boosting, you know, diet and fitness, having an emergency medical kit.
My mom, an independent living, has a wellness company emergency medical kit.
And we've had a couple of times where she's had to break it up.
But when you start treatment on day one, it's night and day, Owen, compared to wading deep into things.
You get five days into a viral illness, virtually nothing works.
owen shroyer
Yeah.
I want to talk about diet now.
And this is another big piece of news that has developed recently.
The food pyramid has, I guess, essentially been flipped.
I don't know.
Nobody's really talked about the food pyramid since the 90s.
But we're talking about it again because it seems like the Trump administration, RFK Jr., is trying to correct whatever these diet protocols were.
Do you like the new food pyramid?
Do you think it communicates well what the average human's diet needs to be?
dr peter mccullough
You know, it's so fun.
I was on with Dr. Drew, also on the medical board of the wellness company, and we called our show Food Fight.
But you know, most people haven't thought about a food pyramid since elementary school.
And I don't know about you, but I don't go into a restaurant and say, you know, show us the food pyramid here.
So I'm shocked by that.
owen shroyer
I can't believe that.
dr peter mccullough
But you know, it's something to talk about.
And I think the main points is we've all gotten away from sugar and starch.
And Owen, you know, I know how buff you are.
You're not eating cinnabons and donuts and any of this stuff.
People have pretty much gotten rid of sugar and starch.
And we're trying to prioritize higher quality sources of protein.
So I think in fresh fruits and vegetables, I think the only debate really is on protein.
And the way I factor it in, I think the highest quality is seafood because it's packaged with essential, beneficial omega-3 fatty acids.
So in my view, it goes fish, beans, nuts, egg whites, non-fat dairy, and then chicken and beef, but way lower.
In the RFK pyramid, beef, and there's, I think, a whole turkey at the top and butter and whole milk.
It's just, you know, it's unnecessary saturated fat.
And the saturated fat is linked directly to coronary heart disease and it makes you fat too.
So for those reasons, I think the food pyramid could be trimmed a little bit.
And so that's where the debate is.
But it's fun to talk about nutrition.
It's fun that they've done this.
And I think the main shortcoming with RFK, he's still afraid to bring in the academic medical centers and the societies and have debates in Washington.
And he has the power to do that because they all have NIH funding.
They all have CMS funding.
He can say, listen, I want to have a one-day symposium on the food pyramid and have it filmed and have presenters.
And he's just not showing the courage to do that.
If I had his role, boy, I'd be having so much fun.
I'd be having so many big medical meetings in Bethesda and Washington.
And that way you identify issues, stakeholders, get a consensus, drive policy.
It's far more effective than trying to do it on your own.
owen shroyer
I love that idea of like a food, you know, diet symposium.
I think that that's brilliant because I do think there's fair debate.
And at the end of it, I think the realization is everybody's biology is a little different.
I mean, humans genuinely, you know, generally our biologies are the same, but there are little distinct differences.
And I hear, you know, I hear your take on the food pyramid.
I'm like, okay, well, why do I prefer, why do I prefer some of these more rich foods, some of these more dense foods, maybe fatty foods, like a raw milk, raw butter, beef?
I just drink raw eggs.
So, I mean, that's kind of Owen, you're like Rocky.
dr peter mccullough
No wonder that beard is just growing just, you know, like a mane on you.
owen shroyer
But what I'm saying is, but it works for me, right?
I exercise like an hour or two a day at least.
So I'm constantly moving.
And it's like maybe, you know, if you're not moving as much, you know, maybe fish is a better alternative than beef.
You know, maybe it depends on your activity levels.
dr peter mccullough
Well, for sure.
I mean, I try to exercise too.
I'm not a couple hours a day, but I bet I'll get an hour and a half today in in combination of aerobic and strength.
Remember, diet is always choices of what you choose to eat and portion control.
You probably have pretty good portions.
And, you know, and we try to weed through the dietary epidemiology, and the studies are always kind of messy.
So you've always seen these reports: chocolate is good for you, chocolate is bad for you.
It kind of goes.
owen shroyer
You do the same thing with coffee.
You know, one day coffee is a miracle.
The next day, you're dead.
dr peter mccullough
Right.
So, because that's because nutritional epidemiology is sloppy.
So, what I point to is compliance.
So, you can find groups of people who lifelong are on a specific diet.
They're rare, but you can find them.
And one great example are the Seventh-day Adventists.
Now, they are lifelong vegans.
They don't eat a single morsel of red meat or turkey or no dairy whatsoever.
None their whole lives.
And in fact, our National Nutrition Advisor, Ben Carson, he's a seven-day appetist.
And you know what?
Oh.
Yeah.
They're some of the longest-lived, healthy people without kidney disease or dementia or anything else that you're going to find on earth.
So, you know, all the people saying, well, we got to eat red meat and it's suddenly healthy.
And, you know, wait a minute.
I mean, there are groups that don't ever have that in and they're perfectly fine.
In fact, they're exemplary.
owen shroyer
Yeah.
I could never do it.
I don't know if I could ever do a red meatless diet or even, you know, chicken or anything like that.
But I have to recognize the reality of the situation.
I forget the lady's name.
You may even have familiarity with this story.
It was like Annette Simmons or something.
I could probably look it up.
But she's like, she's probably got to be up in her 90s now.
But she did a local news piece at the time.
She only ate out of her own garden.
That was it.
She only ate out of her own garden.
And she was in her upper 70s when they shot this local news report.
I can probably find it out.
I can pull it up on my screen here.
But anyway, she would go out.
She looked like she was maybe in her 30s or 40s.
And she would go out with her husband and they'd be like, oh, this is your dad.
This is your granddad.
That's how good she looked.
And she credited it to her raw vegan diet.
She only ate out of her garden.
So again, you know, that would never work for me.
I got to eat my steak.
dr peter mccullough
I got to get it.
I can't be a vegan either.
You know, I have some dairy in my diet.
And, you know, I had some yogurt this morning.
I had, you know, some half and half of my coffee.
And, but, you know, I have probably 80% of my days, I don't consume any meat of any type.
So, you know, I fall in that category.
I don't think I could be completely vegan, but my father-in-law lived to 98.
He's mentally, you know, very sharp.
He ate only out of his garden.
And, oh, and I have to tell you, I've had two patients.
This is remarkable.
Both women, one African-American and one white.
They were, you know, well towards 90 or above 90.
Each one of them looked easily 50 years younger.
I mean, skin, body type, everything, 50 years younger.
They acted 50 years younger.
And each one of them had never had a viral infection and they've never had a dental cavity.
owen shroyer
Really?
dr peter mccullough
Only two in my career.
And it's astonishing.
And I asked them, I said, you know, what did you do differently?
And, you know, they did have a reasonable diet.
They didn't smoke.
And interestingly, neither one ever had a drop of alcohol their whole life.
And they went to church on Sunday.
owen shroyer
Well, that's definitely a recipe for a healthy lifestyle.
And I've, you know, the one thing that I'm starting to look at now, I hate to admit it, but it's true as I'm on the wrong side of 35 and only going north.
The one thing that I am starting to look at is skincare routines.
And, you know, diet does definitely, it definitely plays a role in that.
I think that it's kind of underappreciated the role that diet will play in healthy skin.
I do think that that has maybe more of a biological impact.
I think each person is either prone to have good skin or bad skin.
And then maybe diet can kind of be the determining factor of whether you get the most out of it or the least.
But what can you do?
What do you do or what do you recommend?
What does the wellness company have for people to maintain good, healthy, shiny skin?
Somebody like me that's on camera every day that's maybe thinking about this.
What are some tricks that you recommend?
dr peter mccullough
Well, great question.
Wellness Company is innovated with the combination of ivermectin as well as with metronidazole and some other antimicrobials in a topical lotion.
And the components are FDA approved for treatment of acne, rosacea, pustular acne.
So it's wonderful to kind of clear up.
I noticed some young people developing this acne that becomes pitting.
Have you ever seen that where there's some residual pits forever?
owen shroyer
I always assumed that was scarring from people that, like, you know, kind of no, I mean, people are affected by this.
dr peter mccullough
You know, have you ever noticed Tulsi Gabbert has a little bit?
There's a lot of people who have this.
The young people like this, they need to get on this product right away.
You know, twc.health forward slash Owen, get the topical ivermectin product and get on it twice a day.
This is very, very important.
Diet-wise, diet that's pretty high in fat actually stimulates the glands to produce, you know, more sebum and that creates acne.
So to head more towards a vegan or vegetarian diet, in my view, helps.
And, you know, and then for sure, make sure you get out there and sweat.
We haven't talked about this, but sweat is a natural detoxifier.
My patients with the worst acne, they just get no, you know, they get no physical activity where they sweat.
The pores have to open up and the sweat glands need to produce sweat.
owen shroyer
I do think, you know, even just sitting in a sauna, you know, whatever it takes to kind of have that detox open up those pores.
You know, these are, these are kind of the tricks.
What about, because one thing I do is tallow on my skin.
You guys have the whipped tallow cream.
Is this another one you recommend or is this just more for kind of superficial purposes?
dr peter mccullough
No, I think it can be done, particularly for dry skin.
Now, this is important.
If you have dry skin, the antigens and the allergens on the skin can irritate the skin more.
I had a patient with that yesterday.
So what you want to do is you want to take a shower, a long shower, let your body absorb the water in the shower, then you want to seal it in.
So tallow is a way to do it.
Neutral moisturizing lotion is also another way.
And that reduces this kind of skin dryness and irritation and sometimes even eczema.
So it has an evidence base there.
The other wellness product combination to mention is roots.
Roots is for people losing hair.
Now, Owen, you don't have that problem, but a lot of people.
owen shroyer
I don't think about it, doctor.
We all think about it.
unidentified
Okay.
dr peter mccullough
I know, but I tell you, when you're in the shower and you finish, after you wash your hair, look down at the drain and see if there's a big clump of hair.
If you're losing hair, my advice, Owen, is get on it early.
Don't wait until there's big bald patches.
What roots is, is roots is an oral supplement that stimulates hair growth, all evidence-based, and then a topical lotion that you rub in.
And it includes peptides and also other stimulants.
It's way better than trying to get a hair transplant or wear a toupee or something later on.
Use roots.
And we have a lot of women who use roots.
And men, I tell them, get on it early.
It's all about early intervention here.
owen shroyer
You know, peptides seems to be a major conversation right now.
I just had a buddy last night.
We were playing basketball.
He tore his, I believe it was his ACL.
He opted to not have the surgery.
He was supplementing with peptides for a year.
Yes.
And he was back on the court playing last night, still a little nervous.
It's only been a year, but he was out playing.
What is the new phenomenon with peptides?
I keep hearing about it in the supplement community.
dr peter mccullough
Well, remember the Federal Trade Commission says anything less than 50 amino acids is considered a peptide.
They're benign.
They do have therapeutic effects.
And the Federal Trade Commission allowed this initially with cosmetics, and then it moved into other therapeutic areas.
So at the wellness company, we've had a breakthrough product called Thera Blue.
This is very important.
It contains peptides, other botanicals, methylene blue. as well as some topical analgesics.
And you apply it twice a day to these sore joints or these kind of older, achy joints.
And it is amazing how effective it is.
I use it personally in my knees.
I have a lot of miles on the old odometer.
We talked about marathon running.
And I feel great.
Many of us have torn menisci.
It develops over time.
And when you apply the peptides, they do get penetration through the skin.
It's best to apply them after you get out of the shower so you get good penetration and stick with it twice a day, just not when you have pain.
Peter Galuli, the wellness company CEO, I was on a call with him yesterday.
He was at our new peptide facility at the wellness company.
So we're going to be innovating with all forms of peptides administered through many different routes of administration.
I agree with you.
They're an innovation.
They're far safer than a lot of prescription medicinal pharmaceuticals.
owen shroyer
Well, congratulations to the wellness company on that.
Didn't know about that.
And that's why it's so great what you guys are doing over there because you do provide the alternative.
You provide alternative to the mainstream.
You provide alternative to big pharma.
And these are things that are now pretty well studied and well proven to work.
And so you can back it up.
unidentified
All right.
owen shroyer
Let me ask you a question here before we sign off for the day.
So cold plunges are kind of in.
All right.
They're kind of a fad right now.
We'll see if it sticks or not.
It's been around forever, athletes getting in ice tubs and everything else.
Doctor, I get into the cold plunge and my body just rejects it.
It just says, what are you doing to me?
Why are you torturing me like this?
The pain is immense.
I try to do it anyway.
And I can't tell if the feeling afterwards is like such a relief that I'm not freezing myself, that it feels good, or if it's actually like doing something positive.
It's like, you know, you get out of the cold plunge.
You're just like, oh, thank God it's over.
Or is it actually doing something positive?
What are your thoughts on the cold plunge?
Do you like the cold plunge?
dr peter mccullough
Yeah, you know, I can't do it myself, but, you know, my son ran for Baylor and four years.
He's, you know, academic All-American.
He's ranked in the world in the Half Ironman.
And the athletes believe in it and they do it.
You'll see athletes, even pro athletes, get in a huge tub of like ice water with ice.
It goes back a long way.
You've seen people in Finland and stuff, you know, just kind of jump off into the ice, into the cold water.
What it does is when you go in, the body immediately constricts the blood vessels hard.
I mean, hard.
All your skin blood vessels contract really hard, and that's what you feel.
And then after a few minutes, a few seconds or a few minutes, it becomes numb.
So you get a certain numbness to this.
And then when you get out, those blood vessels release the nitric oxide.
And that's kind of the buzz that you get.
Nitric oxide is locally produced in every single endothelial cell in the body.
And that's the benefit of this.
And yes, it almost certainly does have a benefit.
It's kind of a shock to the system.
Now, I'm careful with my patients with critical heart blockages and mechanical heart valves and other things.
But yeah, if you can bear it.
Now, Owen, do you have one of those special tubs that you get in or how do you do it?
owen shroyer
No, my fitness club here locally has a cold plunge.
That's where I do it.
dr peter mccullough
Oh, wow.
Well, some people get it.
I went out to dinner.
One of my friends is also a patient.
He has one on his back patio and it just cools the water down and he does it on a regular basis.
It does, it does create kind of a buzz.
And I encourage anybody who feels like they need just a, you know, kind of a little lift or to kind of get in the game to give it a shot.
owen shroyer
It'll wake you up.
Yeah.
You're not lethargic after getting in the cold plunge.
Some people, though, do you.
Some people like to mix it with the sauna and they'll kind of go back and forth.
And I don't know, you know, there's been some debate on the science of that.
Like you said, if there's cardiovascular issues, that's probably something you want to be careful with and do more research on.
But what are your thoughts on kind of the juxtaposing of the heat and the cold?
Is it more beneficial to go from hot to cold or cold to hot?
Or what do you think?
dr peter mccullough
Well, you're going from intense vasoconstriction to vasodilatation and sweating.
So you're taking the blood vessels through this full range of exercise.
You're putting your blood vessels through a workout in a sense.
So again, I think each person is different, but if it makes them feel better and it's something they can do in addition to their exercise program, go for it.
You know, I don't have a cold plunge, but I do have a hot tub.
And I have to say, my best nights, Owen, if when I've gone through a really, really good aerobic and strength workout, I'm at the end of the day.
If I go in the hot tub 15 or 20 minutes and I go to bed, I am out.
I mean, I am really, I get the deepest, most restful sleep after, you know, going in a hot tub.
owen shroyer
And from my research, and it might just be because it's better researched at this point, but from my research, it does seem that the hot tub has more beneficial effects than the cold plunge.
Now, again, that might just be because there's more research on that.
I'm a little afraid of the hot tub at the club because it's a little crowded for my taste in there, where the cold plunge is usually empty.
I can get in there and be all alone, where the hot tub is usually filled with water.
dr peter mccullough
Well, hang on.
That's a fair comment.
These public hot tubs and cold plunges, the water can actually contain human bacteria.
And the big ones are Staphylococcus and then Pseudomonas.
So remember, about 25% of us carry it in our nose.
That's the reason why sometimes the nose gets red.
So if you're going to do this, do a nasal spray and gargle twice a day.
Get a really good microbiome going here because I've had patients get staph infections and open wounds, pseudomonal infections, and they can occur around the rectal area and open wounds.
And believe me, it happens.
You probably remember Peyton Manning, quarterback.
He got a staph infection somewhere in his body.
I can't remember.
I think it was his neck.
And it was from this source.
It happens.
owen shroyer
Yeah.
And I think that might have even happened to a, it might have been the football team he was on had an issue with that.
unidentified
Yeah.
owen shroyer
If I recall going years back.
Well, I saw recently Stone Cold Steve Austin, who's who's known as one of the toughest SOBs out there.
He did his first cold plunge and he was like, you know, he was knee-knocking and hating it.
He ended up getting through.
He ended up getting through.
I think he did it for two or three minutes after a couple of tries.
So I don't know.
I may have to engage in some self-humiliation, film myself getting in the cold plunge so everybody can have a laugh.
dr peter mccullough
Yeah, you should do it.
I want to see it, Owen.
owen shroyer
Go for it.
I might do that tonight.
I might do that tonight.
And it might add some pressure to me to actually do it too.
If I feel like people are watching to be like, okay, you have to do it now.
Get in the damn cold plunge.
dr peter mccullough
Owen, do it.
Get the clip and my team will kind of merge it with this.
This will be great.
owen shroyer
All right.
We'll do that.
Dr. Peter McCullough from the Wellness Company.
Folks, the products we talked about today, go to twc.health slash owen for more information.
Take care of your health.
That's what this show is all about.
Ask the doctor, today's guest, Dr. Peter McCullough.
Dr. McCullough, thank you for coming on today.
Have a great rest of your week.
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