On Brand - What's The Matter With Candace? w/Annie Kelly
Aired: 2026-04-15
Duration: 01:57:36


=== Russell Brand Propaganda Live (01:45) ===

[00:00:00]  This is propaganda live.
[00:00:01]  I only suggest how she thinks and how to vote.
[00:00:05]  What a fantastic and special show it is.
[00:00:08]  Russell Brand is a famous rapist.
[00:00:11]  This is just from memory.
[00:00:12]  You can just go, hold on, but they said that, they said that.
[00:00:15]  I became a Christian preempting that charges would appear from deep history.
[00:00:21]  I went to one white party.
[00:00:23]  What?
[00:00:24]  What are you talking about?
[00:00:25]  I'm a migrant right now in the United States.
[00:00:30]  In fact, I would call myself an exile, a political exile.
[00:00:34]  Lying, probably true.
[00:00:36]  Inevitably, I lie sometimes.
[00:00:38]  I feel that Christ may have had a better vision.
[00:00:45]  I'm the main problem.
[00:00:46]  I'm the main problem.
[00:00:48]  Let's go full screen on Russell.
[00:00:50]  This is On Brand, a podcast where we discuss the ideas and antics of one, Russell Brand.
[00:00:55]  I'm Al Worth, and every show I go through an episode of Stay Free with Russell Brand in order to dissect and debunk it.
[00:01:02]  This week, I am thrilled to be joined once more by a researcher, academic, and UK correspondent for the QAA podcast.
[00:01:09]  Annie Kelly.
[00:01:10]  We will be going through Russell's last conversation with Candace Owens and all of the many horrors that entails.
[00:01:18]  But before we get there, if anyone wants to support the show financially by becoming an awakening one day, head to patreon.comslash onbrand and sign up, and you will have my eternal gratitude, as well as being able to access additional content and a completely ad free version of this show.
[00:01:34]  Now then, let's get into it.
[00:01:36]  Annie Kelly, thank you so much for joining me in the abyss once more.
[00:01:41]  To start, my pronouns continue to be they, them, and have yours remained she, her?

=== Annie Kelly Tradwife Backlash (07:58) ===

[00:01:45]  That's right, yes.
[00:01:47]  Excellent.
[00:01:48]  So, how have you been?
[00:01:50]  How's everything been since the last time you were on?
[00:01:52]  How's life, existence, and all of that stuff?
[00:01:55]  Yeah, it's all pretty good.
[00:01:57]  I've actually just come back from a quite Russell approved activity.
[00:02:01]  I was doing a yoga class at my lunchtime.
[00:02:04]  Oh, okay.
[00:02:06]  He'd be more on board if it was Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, but I think he's kind of waned away from the yoga lately.
[00:02:14]  I was wondering if he was becoming a bit too Christian for that.
[00:02:18]  Yes, exactly.
[00:02:19]  Like he's really kind of steered away from that and the meditation kind of side of things.
[00:02:25]  He goes to gun ranges now, you know?
[00:02:28]  So I don't know.
[00:02:29]  Florida's having an effect on him, clearly.
[00:02:32]  And it's my understanding that, what was it, late last year, as part of the QAA catalog of works, you did a six part series looking into trad wives.
[00:02:42]  Is that right?
[00:02:43]  That's right, yes.
[00:02:45]  That sounds like a lot of fun.
[00:02:46]  Please tell me more.
[00:02:48]  Yeah.
[00:02:49]  So, me and my colleague, Megan Kelly, who's no relation, but we just decided that you have to have a last name called Kelly to adequately report on this topic.
[00:03:06]  We both decided to investigate the world of trad wives.
[00:03:10]  And we did that by sort of doing deep dives into these accounts on Instagram and TikTok.
[00:03:19]  Which I think are kind of underexplored platforms actually for the right wing digital conspiracy nexus.
[00:03:29]  There's a feature where I think a lot of journalists are on Twitter, and I think YouTube has also been a bit of a beat for a while.
[00:03:40]  But often, Instagram and definitely TikTok, I think, can be quite underexplored.
[00:03:47]  What we discovered, I think, was you know, there is this world of tradwives, which is quite explicitly part of this reactionary backlash to feminism and the, well, I think what is the dominant obsession of the contemporary right now, which is reproduction.
[00:04:07]  And tradwives, yes, birth rates.
[00:04:10]  Tradwives are very clearly designed to be a female friendly face to address that.
[00:04:20]  I think.
[00:04:21]  But also, I think I must admit, I don't really use Instagram and TikTok personally.
[00:04:30]  And I must admit, I was surprised by how much this stuff had broken containment to what we ended up just calling the girl internet.
[00:04:39]  Right.
[00:04:41]  Which I guess is a much more innocuous space.
[00:04:44]  Do you know?
[00:04:44]  It's not explicitly political.
[00:04:47]  Quite a lot of the time, it actually sounds quite feminist.
[00:04:50]  And yet, a lot of the principles which are actually being articulated here are anything but.
[00:04:56]  So, for example, we found that there was an extreme.
[00:05:02]  Backlash to hormonal birth control and lots of the girl internet, often being explicitly argued in pseudo feminist terms.
[00:05:12]  It would kind of argue, you know, things that, you know, calling things like saying that, you know, the pill is propaganda that I'm not falling for.
[00:05:21]  And, you know, men just, you know, make us take the pill despite all of this, like, long term, irrevocable damage it does to our bodies and our psyches.
[00:05:31]  Things like this, things that kind of sound You know, a bit sort of a bit girl power.
[00:05:37]  There's a reasonable argument there.
[00:05:39]  Yeah, there's a reasonable argument.
[00:05:40]  And don't get me wrong, like, obviously, it's true that the pill has lots of nasty side effects, and it depends on, you know, who you are as a person.
[00:05:47]  And there's lots of different ones.
[00:05:48]  And I'm not kind of saying that these women are lying per se, but overall, the overwhelming consensus seemed to be, and therefore, we need to get off birth control and just go back to embracing, you know, our natural bodily cycles, our harmony with nature.
[00:06:08]  All of this stuff, which to me sounded a little bit crypto trapped, do you know?
[00:06:20]  And it's also just like, on more blunt terms, it's simply not as effective.
[00:06:25]  Do you know?
[00:06:26]  It's simply not as effective as a contraceptive, embracing your Earth Mother natural, do you know?
[00:06:33]  And worryingly, once I started digging into the data, I want to be careful how I word this here because the data.
[00:06:43]  The data was pretty, the way that the researchers framed it was pretty non committal.
[00:06:52]  But it does seem that in people who are presenting for an abortion in this country, when they were asked their best control methods over the last few years, what is called natural family planning had been taken a huge increase.
[00:07:12]  So, we can't necessarily say that that links to this stuff that's on Instagram, which then links to people accidentally getting pregnant when they don't want to be and then seeking an abortion.
[00:07:22]  Like, it's probably a bit more of a complicated story than that.
[00:07:27]  Yeah.
[00:07:27]  But there's correlation, right?
[00:07:29]  Right.
[00:07:31]  It also doesn't.
[00:07:34]  It doesn't, I guess, contradict that idea.
[00:07:37]  Right.
[00:07:39]  And I just think it's pretty interesting.
[00:07:42]  I think, again, at a time, as I said before, when the right is absolutely obsessed with reproduction, there is a constant drumming panic on the right that women, and particularly, I think we can be honest, white women, are not having enough babies.
[00:07:58]  I find it very, very interesting that this has become a dominant.
[00:08:05]  Theme in non political, for want of a better word, feminine spaces.
[00:08:12]  And I've even noticed it actually creep into discussions with some of my friends and things like that.
[00:08:17]  The way that kind of people will sort of, again, kind of talk about birth control as if it's a sort of patriarchal scam in some sense.
[00:08:26]  Right.
[00:08:27]  Do you know?
[00:08:28]  When, yeah, I'm something of a technological materialist.
[00:08:34]  I kind of think that women's liberation is not really possible over the last 50 years.
[00:08:39]  Without the pill.
[00:08:41]  And that's not to say that it's a perfect technology and no one can ever criticize it and no one can ever.
[00:08:49]  I think it's been great the way that the internet has facilitated women's discussions on these sorts of things, which are still considered taboo in a lot of communities.
[00:09:00]  But I don't think it's coincidental that this backlash seems to be rising at the same time as an international anti feminist backlash.
[00:09:11]  Interesting.
[00:09:12]  Very interesting and somewhat disconcerting, as ever.
[00:09:17]  In terms of my guests, I will say you are probably one of the best equipped to have a deeper understanding of what it is we're going to look at today.
[00:09:25]  Oh, good.
[00:09:26]  And funnily enough, we will be looking at a proponent of the Tradwife existence, though that subject specifically won't be coming up too much because this person has gone fully off the deep end.
[00:09:37]  Today, we're going to be examining the interview that Russell had with Candace Owens back in December 2025.

=== Candace Owens Fired Galvanized (05:41) ===

[00:09:44]  Yes, I do apologize.
[00:09:48]  Have you kept up with the increasingly insane claims of Candace Owens over the last year?
[00:09:54]  As much as I've been able to, as much as any one person is able to keep up, I've been tuning in.
[00:10:03]  I mean, maybe we'll go into this a little bit more, but I do have to say I feel a weird admiration for Candace.
[00:10:10]  Okay.
[00:10:12]  I. Taking us back to September last year, was that when Charlie Kirk was shot?
[00:10:19]  I'm not like, yeah, yeah.
[00:10:20]  I thought for a terrible moment there, I thought you were going to be like, Annie, that was three years ago.
[00:10:25]  The way they're telling, the way that time can just collapse on you sometimes.
[00:10:28]  Yeah.
[00:10:30]  It was both yesterday and six years ago.
[00:10:33]  That's just where we're at now.
[00:10:35]  Anyway, and I can't, I remember, you know, for one thing, I, what a terrible way to die and what a terrible kind of public.
[00:10:46]  Spectacle it became.
[00:10:48]  You know, maybe when I was a bit younger, I could have joined in on all of the laughing and the trolling and everything like that, but I'm just a bit too soft hearted these days.
[00:10:59]  It was horrible.
[00:11:01]  But then there was, of course, the even more terrifying mobilization that seemed to be occurring in front of our eyes, where, you know, the right were clearly hugely galvanized by this.
[00:11:17]  And you Speaking in incredibly bloodthirsty terms before it was even clear who the killer was, what their motivation was.
[00:11:29]  And it was clear that they were looking for an opportunity to pass, to kind of, for punishment essentially, for any kind of revenge that they could get on leftists, on trans people, on liberals, on anything.
[00:11:49]  And there was a horrible kind of doxing site I remember that started, which was getting the names of people and finding their jobs and stuff like that who.
[00:12:00]  Hadn't posted something sufficiently reverent about Charlie Kirk and some of this stuff as well.
[00:12:05]  I remember thinking.
[00:12:06]  Some people fired, yeah, yeah.
[00:12:07]  Yeah, and some people were fired.
[00:12:08]  And some of it, I remember thinking, was so mild.
[00:12:11]  It was so, you know, he shouldn't have died, but I don't think he was a good person.
[00:12:15]  I mean, I'm sorry, if you're a public figure, then that is the price that you pay when you die.
[00:12:23]  Do you know?
[00:12:24]  People don't necessarily have to talk.
[00:12:27]  It's, you know, it's not nice to say that about somebody's grandma who's just died.
[00:12:32]  But if you are a public figure in the political sphere, you can expect some criticism in your ability to be a public figure.
[00:12:38]  Even when someone's grandma dies, you can be like, oh, that's sad.
[00:12:41]  She was a racist, though.
[00:12:44]  You can kind of accept the whole of a person.
[00:12:48]  You'll be like, okay, didn't necessarily deserve to go in that way.
[00:12:51]  But also, there were some problems, right?
[00:12:53]  Yeah, I guess what I'm saying is maybe there's a different etiquette, I think, for the way you would speak to somebody's grieving relative and the way that you might.
[00:13:02]  Speak about a public figure.
[00:13:04]  Sure, sure.
[00:13:08]  But yeah, and even they were getting their jobs posted, and there was just like a real moment of quite terrifying overreach.
[00:13:20]  And I have to say, I think Candace Owens single handedly torpedoed it all.
[00:13:26]  Yeah, I was just thinking, I was like, yeah, they were galvanized for like a couple of weeks.
[00:13:31]  And then, yeah.
[00:13:33]  And then kind of Candace Owens has kind of like shot a sort of battering ram through it.
[00:13:39]  With actually, Erica Kirk works for Israel and she probably had something to do with it.
[00:13:46]  And maybe she was, yeah, maybe she's transgender as well because Candace Owens loves saying that about people.
[00:13:51]  Loves transvestigating, yeah.
[00:13:53]  Yeah, yeah, probably.
[00:13:54]  Yeah, probably.
[00:13:55]  Our most famous transvestigator.
[00:13:58]  And so I guess, in a weird way, you know, I kind of think she's a bit of a comrade, actually, because they really were gearing up.
[00:14:07]  They really were gearing up to do something, you know, to kind of.
[00:14:11]  And she just spoiled all of their momentum.
[00:14:14]  There's no doubt about it.
[00:14:16]  Do you know?
[00:14:16]  Yeah.
[00:14:17]  In a way that I don't think any of us could have done.
[00:14:20]  For sure, for sure.
[00:14:22]  Like the worst version of events is if her and Erica Kirk.
[00:14:26]  We were like best buds because then we'd all be in trouble.
[00:14:29]  We would all be in severe trouble.
[00:14:31]  Whereas.
[00:14:31]  Yeah, the grieving wife and the grieving work wife.
[00:14:34]  Wow.
[00:14:35]  Yeah, whereas instead we got a power struggle and then it's all just imploded from there on out.
[00:14:44]  So yeah, the admiration I do understand, to be fair.
[00:14:48]  Yeah, and we've had various things from Candace over the last.
[00:14:51]  You know, obviously there was the Brigitte Macron transvestigating, which she's still doing despite.
[00:14:56]  Being sued by the Macrons.
[00:14:59]  She's still carrying on down that road.
[00:15:02]  She's asserted that the French government tried to have her killed, that Charlie Kirk was killed by the French government, by Brigitte Macron, potentially by Israel and by Turning Point USA.
[00:15:15]  All of those things.
[00:15:17]  And also, she dreamed that Charlie told her that he'd been betrayed by someone close to him.
[00:15:22]  And because she dreamed that, she believes it fully.

=== Carlson Books AI Tells (07:15) ===

[00:15:25]  So that's.
[00:15:26]  That's who we're dealing with, which is going to be fun.
[00:15:30]  And we're going to get to Candace in just a second.
[00:15:32]  But first, I do need to share a bit of Russell news with you because I know it's something you'll be as fascinated by as I am.
[00:15:40]  And I'll bring it up big here so we can have a look here.
[00:15:44]  Russell has a new book coming out next week called How to Become a Christian in Seven Days.
[00:15:50]  Asterisk may take 50 years of sin and serious fuck ups to get started.
[00:15:57]  Like, I know you're already down that path, Annie, but for me, I'm excited to finally get some decent instruction on becoming a Christian.
[00:16:04]  You know, Russell Brand, he's the one we need to listen to for that.
[00:16:11]  And interestingly, this is being sold at the moment exclusively on Tucker Carlson's website.
[00:16:17]  Wow.
[00:16:18]  Yeah.
[00:16:20]  It's interesting to me.
[00:16:21]  I publish Tucker Carlson books.
[00:16:23]  Tucker Carlson books, only available on TCN, right?
[00:16:27]  It's interesting to me because Russell does have his own website.
[00:16:30]  He's got his own line of supplements these days, his own means of selling things.
[00:16:34]  But yeah, clearly some deal with Tucker's been done, which also probably means that Russell will be on Tucker's show within the next week or two, which that'll be thrilling for me.
[00:16:46]  I imagine Tucker's got a bigger audience, probably.
[00:16:50]  It probably just makes sense.
[00:16:51]  Oh, significantly.
[00:16:52]  Significantly.
[00:16:53]  Yeah.
[00:16:53]  Yeah.
[00:16:54]  So it does track.
[00:16:57]  I'm hoping it will end up somewhere in the pirate sphere so I don't have to fork out money to give to both Russell and Tucker Carlson, but I might have to, unfortunately.
[00:17:09]  I would also like to read you the blurb from this book because I am excited.
[00:17:15]  So, quote, How to become a Christian in seven days is the story of how Russell Brand found Christ, and you can too.
[00:17:23]  This is the New York Times bestselling author Russell Brand's testimony and a guide to a timeless yet zeitgeist capturing, grounded yet psychedelic encounter with Christ.
[00:17:34]  As much as the world is in cultural and political collapse, unless you've been living in a billionaire bunker on Epstein Island, you know we are in an extraordinary revival.
[00:17:44]  With his customary, almost shocking frankness, Brand describes his apostasy from demonic Hollywood and radical conversion to Christianity against a backdrop of false allegations.
[00:17:57]  I don't think he's allowed to say that.
[00:17:58]  His son's heart surgery and truly jaw dropping spiritual warfare.
[00:18:03]  If you are beginning to awaken to the profound changes that are sweeping our planet and want an eyewitness account from the front line described in gentle yet visceral prose, read this book now.
[00:18:16]  I mean, I'm sold.
[00:18:19]  I don't know about you.
[00:18:21]  I'm into it.
[00:18:22]  Yeah.
[00:18:23]  I mean, in a weird way, it makes complete sense to me that this is the book he's writing.
[00:18:29]  I can't remember if I brought this observation up on the last episode I did with you.
[00:18:32]  So I apologize if I did.
[00:18:35]  And I'm just repeating myself to your listeners.
[00:18:38]  But when I did the two part episodes on him for QAA, I actually read some of his old books, which I'd never bothered to read before.
[00:18:49]  And I think the thing that really struck me, because I remember he published one called Revolution.
[00:18:56]  And it's got the kind of classic sort of like almost sort of Maoist pastiche sort of design on it.
[00:19:04]  He's made up to look a bit like Che Guevara.
[00:19:06]  And it was off the back, I think, of that Paxman interview where he was, you know, advocating voting.
[00:19:12]  And so I remember everybody at the time treating it like a political text from a, we'll call him a kind of left wing pop intellectual at the time.
[00:19:24]  And I remember reading it and being struck by how deeply religious it was.
[00:19:31]  So, yeah, it's unsurprising.
[00:19:36]  In terms of his previous literature, let me read the About the Author section as well, because I enjoyed this.
[00:19:42]  Russell Brand is a stand up comedian, author, actor, blah, blah, blah, because the culture demands a monetizable moniker for participation in its sick, dead hollow festival.
[00:19:54]  He was in Forgetting Sarah Marshall.
[00:19:56]  He was married to Katy Perry.
[00:19:58]  He wrote some good books, My Bookie Wook and Recovery.
[00:20:00]  And now Christ has chosen him out of the world and he is saved.
[00:20:08]  I found that interesting because he doesn't mention revolution for a start.
[00:20:13]  And Bookie Wook is objectively, obnoxiously terrible.
[00:20:17]  And, you know, his first autobiography.
[00:20:20]  And it has him saying the absolute worst things about his life as well as some definitely very shitty ways he's treated women.
[00:20:28]  And then Recovery is just a repackaging of the 12 Steps program, but ironically, with all the God bits taken out and some swearing thrown in to replace it, basically.
[00:20:39]  So he cited what are arguably two of his worst books, you know, but I don't think he can cite Revolution in there because, at least at the time, it definitely gave the appearance of being vaguely left wing and of the left, and that wouldn't appeal to his current audience or to Tucker Carlson's.
[00:20:58]  So, like, nah, we'll mention these two, I guess.
[00:21:01]  There was also his children's book, but that faced honestly some of the most brutal book reviews I've ever read.
[00:21:08]  So, I guess he's down to slim pickings.
[00:21:12]  I wonder how much of this is.
[00:21:13]  You know how all of these books are getting exposed as being written by ChatGPT?
[00:21:19]  It happened, well, I guess your audience may not know.
[00:21:22]  It happened recently with another micro celebrity on the British right, Matthew Goodwin, former academic.
[00:21:31]  Current GB News pundit, I think, failed, failed reform UK candidate, current shithead.
[00:21:38]  Yes, yeah, and he published a book which, yeah, just kind of had reams of obvious AI, including the classic AI tell, which is hallucinating references, it's referencing studies that don't exist and stuff like that stuff that you know anyone really could have fact checked had they fact checked, yeah.
[00:21:59]  Um, yeah, and yeah, I think there, I think, yeah, there's been another.
[00:22:06]  Another one which is a bit more subtle but has some tells of AI.
[00:22:12]  So I wonder if this will be another one of those.
[00:22:15]  Yeah, I'm curious as well, or whether he'll do it the smart way and at least use a ghostwriter kind of thing.
[00:22:24]  I'm curious because I'll be able to tell if he's written it, is the thing.
[00:22:29]  I'm all too familiar with the way he writes at this point because it's gross.
[00:22:35]  I will say, though, it is only 192 pages.
[00:22:38]  So maybe he has managed that himself.

=== Spinning Confidence Day Everyone (15:10) ===

[00:22:41]  But also, he's profoundly lazy.
[00:22:43]  So, yeah, we'll find out.
[00:22:44]  We'll find out.
[00:22:45]  I'll keep you posted.
[00:22:47]  All right, let's get into the episode proper.
[00:22:50]  And we'll start with the opening of the interview where Russell recounts the first time he and Candace met.
[00:22:58]  When I first met you, obviously, you remember because we've discussed it before in my podcast studio, such as it was in the garden.
[00:23:06]  This is what I remember thinking there was a lovely moment where you had argued very sort of Republican, conservative positions.
[00:23:13]  And I guess what I'd said had been extraordinarily socialist, because certainly that's how you judged me.
[00:23:19]  But I felt like I was trying to speak about spirituality, but from a somewhat new age perspective.
[00:23:26]  But then there's this really beautiful moment where you went, And what do you think about migration, Russell?
[00:23:32]  Oh, we should just let everybody in.
[00:23:33]  And you skipped around the room.
[00:23:35]  You sort of like did this bit, you did a sort of a prance.
[00:23:38]  And my thought is not felt, is like she's so beautiful.
[00:23:42]  Oh.
[00:23:43]  But I don't.
[00:23:44]  Actually, it made me feel that everything that gets discussed on a political level is superficial and empty because it's spirit that actually matters.
[00:23:54]  And even then, I wasn't Christian yet.
[00:23:56]  You weren't Christian yet.
[00:23:58]  And I was already married, of course.
[00:24:00]  So I confined my perspectives of your beauty to an appropriate strata.
[00:24:06]  But what affected me was oh, actually, in spite of all this stuff we've been talking about, how we disagree with stuff, on a spiritual level, I really like this person.
[00:24:16]  I. Love this person.
[00:24:18]  I find this person attractive.
[00:24:21]  Yeah, Candace should have just gotten the fuck out of there immediately.
[00:24:26]  They're recording in Candace's studio, but hot damn.
[00:24:29]  If Russell Brand says he finds you attractive, best advice is to leave, even if that means walking out of your own home.
[00:24:36]  So that's Candace's studio.
[00:24:38]  Wow, it's so Catholic.
[00:24:41]  Is she Catholic or is she Eastern Orthodox?
[00:24:43]  Oh, yeah, yeah.
[00:24:44]  She's been staunchly on the Catholic train for at least a year more than that, I think.
[00:24:51]  Yeah, I wasn't sure if she was one of those who then is like, oh, actually, the Pope's too woke.
[00:24:55]  I'm Eastern Orthodox.
[00:24:56]  Now, which is a kind of path that some take.
[00:25:03]  Yes, yeah.
[00:25:04]  No, no, she's sticking to it, though I'm sure she has her disagreements with this pope and the last one.
[00:25:11]  But no, she's been on that tip for a while.
[00:25:13]  And last time her and Russell spoke, she was trying to convince him to become Catholic as well, funnily enough.
[00:25:19]  Yeah, he sounds, from the sound of that book, thoroughly American Protestant to me, talking about testimony and being saved.
[00:25:32]  That's not how Catholics talk.
[00:25:34]  Yeah, no, he's still non denominational, is how he puts it.
[00:25:40]  I maintain that there is a 99% certainty that he was baptized by an Anglican priest, because Bear Grylls is also Anglican and was there with him and everything.
[00:25:50]  But I don't think, and I feel like that matters, but I guess to him it doesn't, you know, and fine, I suppose.
[00:26:00]  You know, I think he doesn't want to have to pick a lane because he knows it's going to divide his audience, you know, and he just wants to stick to as much of the esoteric realm as he can.
[00:26:13]  Also, from that clip, I must say it is particularly demonstrative of Russell's worldview where he'll just happily throw all of his supposed values to the side because he thinks someone's hot.
[00:26:22]  You know, like, oh, politics is superficial and empty to me now because you are fuckable.
[00:26:28]  You know, you're like, okay.
[00:26:30]  Yeah, I mean.
[00:26:32]  It's funny because I think it would actually be a point that he would.
[00:26:37]  Probably back when he was being a left wing radical, or posturing as one, that he, I think, might have articulated himself the sense that the left and right all feels like one big parlor game between the same class.
[00:26:56]  For sure.
[00:26:57]  At the end of the day, after everyone's kind of been busting each other up on the TV, they all shake hands and go to the same cocktail parties.
[00:27:05]  Do you know?
[00:27:05]  So it kind of reminded me of that.
[00:27:07]  What he was saying there, do you know?
[00:27:09]  And you sort of a bit like, oh, yeah, because it's actually just the same for the YouTube class as well now, do you know?
[00:27:16]  You guys are making so much money.
[00:27:18]  And yeah, you know, once again, you kind of have your, I don't know, I'm going to embarrass myself by not really knowing any names of political streamers.
[00:27:26]  You've got your like Destiny versus Nick Fuentes, you know, what they call them, internet blood sports debates.
[00:27:33]  Sure.
[00:27:33]  But they're all friends.
[00:27:35]  Yeah, right.
[00:27:35]  You know, but at the end of the day, everyone just like it.
[00:27:38]  It's, We all make a bunch of money and then we go and carry on with our lives and get a drink.
[00:27:46]  And this kind of feels actually kind of like he's articulating the same dynamic here.
[00:27:52]  Yeah, he's kind of made the claim that both sides are the same for a long time at this point.
[00:27:58]  And it's become increasingly unconvincing in recent years, particularly coming from him.
[00:28:04]  But yeah, their first conversation, I think, was back in 2018.
[00:28:09]  And he was still fully like crunchy hippie guy at that point.
[00:28:13]  Point, so yeah, absolutely, that would be the position he was coming from at the time for sure.
[00:28:18]  Um, yeah, I think I remember their first debate.
[00:28:21]  I didn't watch all of it, I think I skipped around, but I remember when they did it.
[00:28:26]  I remember there was a lot of uh people being like, Why is Russell Brand platforming her and things of that nature?
[00:28:32]  Yeah, yeah, and and then eventually it became clear why he was doing that.
[00:28:39]  Um, you know, same with uh, same with Jordan Peterson and the other kinds of people that he would speak to back then as well.
[00:28:45]  You know, it's like, Okay, you, yeah.
[00:28:47]  Testing waters, and here we go.
[00:28:50]  Anyway, so from here, Russell goes on a ramble for a good like five minutes, which culminates in finally asking Candace eventually how she arrives at her batshit conclusions with such confidence.
[00:29:05]  I know that what you're saying is essentially that people from Turning Point either knew about or are otherwise involved in the murder of Charlie Kirk.
[00:29:17]  Tell me.
[00:29:18]  What is coming to you that makes you confident enough to say things that are going to cause so much consternation?
[00:29:26]  Good question.
[00:29:29]  It's interesting.
[00:29:30]  You've asked a lot there.
[00:29:31]  Yeah.
[00:29:31]  I won't talk for 20 minutes.
[00:29:33]  No, but I'm glad you did because there's a lot there that is important.
[00:29:38]  First and foremost, just the idea of what is controversy.
[00:29:42]  I think that in and of itself, we can spend three hours on, right?
[00:29:45]  What is actually deemed controversial today?
[00:29:47]  Okay.
[00:29:48]  Anything that exists outside of the system is deemed controversial.
[00:29:53]  So what you're getting at is you're in the middle of fame and controversy.
[00:30:00]  Well, it's.
[00:30:01]  The problem is that people are listening to me and I don't belong to the traditional satellite, right?
[00:30:07]  If I was within Hollywood and I had an agent and I had a manager and I had people who were sort of able to control me, I would be on the cover of every magazine.
[00:30:21]  I'd probably be a billionaire.
[00:30:22]  I probably would be Oprah.
[00:30:24]  I will say Candace is not lacking in confidence.
[00:30:27]  I would be Oprah.
[00:30:29]  Yeah, I mean, I was actually really curious to hear her answer because, yeah, I mean, who.
[00:30:35]  Who among us wouldn't like a little bottle of Candace Owens' confidence?
[00:30:39]  Yeah, you don't want to take the whole thing at once.
[00:30:42]  You want maybe want to like put like a drip in your tea every morning or something like that.
[00:30:47]  Yeah, micro dose.
[00:30:49]  Yeah.
[00:30:52]  But yeah, no, I mean, great question because you can't deny she's got a lot of it.
[00:30:58]  And yeah, I definitely feel like Russell is asking for himself.
[00:31:04]  I think, yeah, he wants a bit of it.
[00:31:07]  I want a bit of it.
[00:31:08]  Yeah, fair enough.
[00:31:09]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:31:12]  How do you get to this point?
[00:31:14]  And yeah, I'd be surprised.
[00:31:16]  I'm literally getting sued by the French government and are still carrying on.
[00:31:19]  I mean, yeah.
[00:31:20]  She's so confident in this.
[00:31:22]  Amazing self belief.
[00:31:24]  In the face of all facts and evidence.
[00:31:27]  I need to know what mantras she's doing in the morning.
[00:31:29]  I do.
[00:31:29]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:31:31]  But as you say, microdose, because that can get risky real fast, I think.
[00:31:35]  Exactly.
[00:31:37]  Also, she may not be a billionaire, but the estimated ad revenue from Candace's.
[00:31:41]  Podcast currently is supposedly bringing in about $10 million a year for her.
[00:31:46]  So I think she's doing all right.
[00:31:48]  And yep, she's married to George Farmer, whose dad is Metals Baron and former Tory Treasurer, Lord Farmer, and he has an estimated net worth of 150 million pounds.
[00:31:58]  So there is also some inherited wealth probably coming her way anyway.
[00:32:02]  So that's fun.
[00:32:04]  Who needs Oprah Muddy anyway?
[00:32:05]  You know, you can just carry on down that road.
[00:32:09]  Now, from here, we have a couple of examples of the sort of mindset we're working.
[00:32:13]  With that, I know will be all too familiar to you, Annie.
[00:32:17]  And in this clip, Russell is asking for help understanding the conspiracy theories surrounding Charlie Kirk's death.
[00:32:23]  But my simple reaction was I don't know who would want Charlie Kirk dead.
[00:32:27]  What difference is it going to be?
[00:32:28]  Who benefits from Charlie Kirk being killed?
[00:32:31]  Who benefits?
[00:32:32]  Like, as they say, cui bono.
[00:32:34]  That's the question to always ask.
[00:32:36]  And I actually didn't understand how Israel benefits from Charlie Kirk being murdered.
[00:32:41]  I certainly can't see yet how, like, sort of French.
[00:32:44]  Special forces could, you know, so tell can you explain that to me?
[00:32:50]  Because I don't understand who benefits from it, but I also know that whenever I've seen it my whole life, a long gunman killed RFK, Martin Luther King, Malcolm X.
[00:33:00]  I know that's a lie, so I'm open.
[00:33:03]  Okay, there we go.
[00:33:04]  So already you can see, like, Russell, he's not asking for evidence so much as he is, like, give me a compelling story.
[00:33:10]  Yeah, you know, persuade me.
[00:33:12]  Yeah.
[00:33:12]  Yes.
[00:33:12]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:33:14]  Just provide me a good enough story so I can either jump on board or at least not actively argue against you, you know?
[00:33:20]  Yeah.
[00:33:21]  You know, and it's already a worrying position to begin from, really.
[00:33:26]  And I do need to offer an apology, by the way, to both you and the audience because Candace Owens is, if nothing else, a world champion Gish Gallop.
[00:33:37]  She will continue just trotting out a million threads of information without so much as taking a breath if no one stops her, which does mean a number of these clips are a little bit longer than I would like them to be.
[00:33:48]  So, yeah, we've got more time with Candace than I would like.
[00:33:52]  But she does tend to make it a necessity.
[00:33:57]  And this next one is an example of that.
[00:34:00]  And this time we get a look at part of Candace's worldview as to what constitutes indicators of a conspiracy theory.
[00:34:07]  So, what is it?
[00:34:09]  So, look, I can tell you that from the moment that Charlie got shot, and I can't explain it.
[00:34:13]  And maybe it's because Charlie would tell me all the time that he was going to die young, and I showed those messages.
[00:34:18]  And I just knew that this was big.
[00:34:20]  I knew it was big.
[00:34:21]  I didn't have the players.
[00:34:23]  I certainly didn't suspect Turning Point USA would be, as I believe, involved in a cover up.
[00:34:28]  And we can talk about what the motives are of that.
[00:34:30]  They could be financial motives.
[00:34:31]  It doesn't necessarily mean they weren't involved in plotting to kill him.
[00:34:34]  And I've never said that.
[00:34:36]  But I do believe that they have betrayed him since.
[00:34:38]  And I am comfortable saying that today.
[00:34:41]  Because I know that they have told lies and that they have withheld information that if truly you were motivated by goodness and truth, you would come out and you would say it.
[00:34:47]  Like there are people at Turning Point who Charlie texted the night before and said, they're going to kill me.
[00:34:51]  Well, if you're trying to figure out who killed Charlie Kirk, wouldn't that be a good thing to come forward with to the public and say, Charlie thought that he was going to be murdered the night before?
[00:34:59]  And they're not doing that.
[00:35:01]  So to me, to not assist that investigation is not something that I'm going to ignore.
[00:35:07]  Also, to not answer basic questions that if I said to you, Russell, where were you when Charlie got shot?
[00:35:13]  You're not going to get defensive and weird.
[00:35:15]  You're just going to.
[00:35:16]  I can tell you where I was.
[00:35:16]  I was sitting, plotting, planning my next show at the kitchen counter, and they are being very strange about details on that day.
[00:35:24]  It makes me uncomfortable.
[00:35:25]  If someone, the easier task, if somebody, if the internet thinks that Mikey McCoy, who was the person who instantly picked up the phone and walked away when Charlie got shot, who was the chief of staff, if people find that behavior to be suspicious, and I do find it to be not what I would do if a shot went off, obviously everybody else ran or ducked.
[00:35:46]  And he instantly picked up a phone.
[00:35:48]  I would just show my call log and I would be like, guys, this is crazy.
[00:35:52]  Like, I called my mom, and here's the.
[00:35:54]  And so it's the absence of answering and the blaming and the yelling that feels off to people.
[00:36:00]  And I think that's fair.
[00:36:03]  I mean, he could have been calling 911, you know, which would be a rational response, I would say.
[00:36:08]  But also, like, you can't pick apart people's response when they're literally in the middle of a crisis.
[00:36:13]  Like, people act all sorts of weird ways when faced with violent situations.
[00:36:18]  Famously, that's what Alex Jones did with the footage from Sandy Hook, claiming either the parents or the children weren't upset enough for his liking.
[00:36:26]  You know, you can't just be like, well, that's not what I would have done.
[00:36:29]  I'm like, I don't think you know what you would have done.
[00:36:32]  Yeah, she also uses a tactic which I've seen used by a lot of conspiracy entrepreneurs.
[00:36:39]  Where they say that your refusal to give me more content is evidence of your guilt.
[00:36:46]  Essentially, you know, because she's not talking about the investigation.
[00:36:50]  She's not talking about the police, is she?
[00:36:51]  She's talking about her own investigation.
[00:36:54]  She's saying it's suspicious that, yeah, these figures who work for Turning Point weren't handing over their texts, their call logs to her, weren't agreeing to be interviewed by her, and then saying, which all of which she would have used because that's what content creators do, they use to propagate more content.
[00:37:13]  They would have said, oh, this looks strange, you know.
[00:37:17]  Who calls their mother twice in one day?
[00:37:19]  That's probably not who it actually was.
[00:37:21]  And all sorts of, they kind of just keep on spinning and spinning and spinning because that's their job.
[00:37:27]  That's what they do.
[00:37:28]  So, the absolutely sensible thing to do when you're confronted by someone saying, give me all of this detail, is to make more content out of a tragedy that affected somebody that you know, is to shut down and say no.
[00:37:40]  Yeah, it's just like, nah, I'm not doing that.
[00:37:43]  That's a terrible idea.
[00:37:46]  Even if they're promising it will prove your innocence.
[00:37:49]  Right, exactly.

=== Guided Theology Campaign Responding (04:43) ===

[00:37:51]  Exactly.
[00:37:51]  And yeah, you've hit the nail on the head because it's Candace claiming that an absence of information indicates a conspiracy.
[00:37:59]  You know, they're not answering my questions, therefore something must be happening.
[00:38:04]  But here's the rub Last year, Ben Shapiro took the stage at a Turning Point USA event and responded directly to Candace's conspiracy theories about Charlie Kirk's death.
[00:38:13]  And he defended Erica Kirk and the staff at Turning Point.
[00:38:16]  And Candace's response to that was well, he responded to it, and therefore there must be something he's hiding.
[00:38:24]  And she did the exact same thing.
[00:38:26]  You cannot win with these people.
[00:38:27]  Right, right.
[00:38:27]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:38:28]  She did the same with Brigitte Macron, right?
[00:38:30]  A statement was issued making it very clear that Brigitte Macron is a biological female and there's no evidence to indicate otherwise.
[00:38:36]  And Candace takes that as evidence of a cover up because they said something.
[00:38:41]  So if there's an absence of information, it's a conspiracy.
[00:38:44]  And when there's information presented, it's also a conspiracy.
[00:38:47]  You know, there's no winning when someone has already decided what they believe.
[00:38:51]  And Candace seems to believe what.
[00:38:53]  Ever will fit her narratives and drive clicks on her content in the moment, you know?
[00:38:58]  So it's, yeah, it's an impossible situation.
[00:39:02]  You know, because like, what else are those poor people supposed to do?
[00:39:06]  I mean, you know, like, being on the receiving end of a Candace Owens investigation can't be much fun, I would think.
[00:39:15]  I know.
[00:39:16]  She's basically the only person who could make us feel sorry for Turning Point USA employees.
[00:39:20]  Yes, literally.
[00:39:24]  So from here, I think we really get a sense of kind of the heart of Candace's increasingly wild conspiracy theories.
[00:39:32]  Do you think the nationhood of Israel is fundamental in even issues as seemingly diffuse and only really connected through you, you know, and you being the person that's reported on them, as Brigitte Macron's true identity and Charlie Kirk's murder?
[00:39:48]  Do you think these things are connected?
[00:39:49]  Yes, I think it's all connected.
[00:39:51]  And I think in many ways we already live in this sort of one world government system.
[00:39:54]  Maybe it's two world.
[00:39:56]  But in terms of the West, I don't think there's any difference in the governments.
[00:39:59]  And that's kind of the point that we're making and maybe why the Charlie Kirk case is so crucial because it's showing us that, wait, what is the divide here?
[00:40:06]  Between America and Israel and France, right?
[00:40:09]  I just told people that somebody in the French government alerted me to an assassination attempt.
[00:40:16]  Shouldn't that require a comment from the President of the United States?
[00:40:20]  Shouldn't the President of the United States be forced to make a statement about that?
[00:40:23]  He received that information.
[00:40:25]  Wouldn't you think it's the most viral?
[00:40:27]  It was the most viral global story for three days, and the White House has chosen not to comment.
[00:40:32]  What does that signal to the population?
[00:40:34]  That it's okay for France to be involved in assassination attempts?
[00:40:38]  That they're, at least if he thought that.
[00:40:40]  I was completely making it up, and I gave him the evidence and it was made up.
[00:40:43]  He would be required to come out and say, We are looking at that situation, and that there's nothing here.
[00:40:47]  There's no evidence of that.
[00:40:49]  They're doing none of that.
[00:40:50]  And that should alarm people.
[00:40:52]  That should very, very much alarm people.
[00:40:55]  I believe that there is some truth to what David Icke has said and what Alex Jones has said, people before them have said that there has been these dark, demonic, satanic cults.
[00:41:09]  It's the reason why I started my book club, because I needed to understand.
[00:41:13]  Where this was coming from in the only way that it can make sense, which is that these people are being guided by a theology, right?
[00:41:21]  This goes back to one of the more brilliant things that my husband said, right?
[00:41:25]  When we, I guess you could say we dated for 18 days, but I was like, why did you, why did you read theology at Oxford?
[00:41:31]  Like, what a boring subject.
[00:41:33]  And he said, everything is theology.
[00:41:36]  And I've now realized he's right.
[00:41:38]  They are guided by a theology.
[00:41:41]  Yeah, we'll get to which specific theology she's referencing in just a minute.
[00:41:47]  A hint for everyone it's not so much Satanism and it rhymes with schmoodaism.
[00:41:53]  But again, what I want to highlight here is Candace saying that, like, hey, I claimed the French government were trying to kill me and that they may be involved in Charlie's murder.
[00:42:02]  Why is no one responding to this?
[00:42:04]  Them not responding is clearly evidence of something.
[00:42:06]  And we all know, had they responded to it, it would have just given the same end result of her claiming a conspiracy, only it would have given her more attention and clicks.
[00:42:14]  And honestly, like the vibe I get most from that clip is, why is no one paying attention to me?
[00:42:19]  It must be a cover up, which, at its core, is really quite sad.
[00:42:25]  I mean, I will, in Candace's defense, I will say it's not quite as ridiculous as if just some random YouTuber was making that claim.

=== Manosphere Media Class Platformed (03:39) ===

[00:42:35]  Because the truth is, she was kind of embedded along with lots of other right wing content creators with the Trump campaign for a while.
[00:42:47]  And I'm pretty sure that she has had phone conversations with Trump and things like that.
[00:42:54]  I think she referenced at one point.
[00:42:56]  Apparently, Trump said to her, Oh, I don't know.
[00:43:00]  I met Bridget Macron a few times and she looks like a woman to me.
[00:43:04]  So, and it sounds, it would have sounded insane 10 years ago.
[00:43:16]  It is actually true that people like Russell Brand and Candace Owens, and I'm trying to think of any more of these kind of right wing content creators, lots of Manosphere, Manosphere types, are actually pretty tight with the current political administration in a way that does feel very new, does feel quite.
[00:43:44]  Yeah, it's a brave new world, basically.
[00:43:47]  But they are, you know, just YouTube's appeal was always its authenticity, its removal from a certain media class, essentially.
[00:43:58]  But that's actually just not increasingly not really true anymore.
[00:44:02]  You know, this is just the new media class, but it's kind of the same as the old media class.
[00:44:09]  Increasingly, they're rubbing shoulders with people with real political power.
[00:44:13]  And I think you can really see that in this admin.
[00:44:16]  It's why I. Sometimes I think conversations that people can have about these people where.
[00:44:26]  Feel a bit stuck in the past where people are saying things like, you mustn't platform them.
[00:44:30]  And I sort of want to be like, that horse has bolted.
[00:44:35]  They are pretty well platformed when there's photos of them meeting and discussing things with the literal president of the United States.
[00:44:43]  Yeah.
[00:44:46]  I could not imagine anyone being more platformed at that point.
[00:44:49]  Yes, yeah, yeah.
[00:44:50]  Russell's received an award from Donald Trump.
[00:44:54]  Yeah.
[00:44:55]  So I do occasionally get comments on my stuff being like, hey, why are you platforming?
[00:45:00]  Forming, right?
[00:45:00]  I'm like, I don't think he needs me.
[00:45:03]  Right, right, right, right.
[00:45:05]  It's just like, it's people, yeah.
[00:45:07]  I mean, it feels a bit like I occasionally used to get, you know, why are you talking about all of this manosphere stuff?
[00:45:15]  Like it's just silly internet stuff, you know, like just, it's not real.
[00:45:22]  And you hear a lot of that 10, 15 years ago when I first started researching this world.
[00:45:28]  Occasionally, I still get people saying it, being like, oh, this is just internet stuff.
[00:45:32]  This isn't real life.
[00:45:33]  And I want to be a bit like, I mean, increasing the internet is actually just real life now for everyone.
[00:45:39]  We're all stuck on our phones six hours a day and things like that.
[00:45:42]  But also, again, this is kind of the manosphere is not just a couple of weirdos with blogs anymore.
[00:45:49]  These are people who are genuinely influencing political movers and shakers.
[00:45:58]  Sometimes people just hear an argument that sounds compelling when they're first becoming politically aware, so in their early 20s.
[00:46:08]  They just keep repeating it 15 years later, even when the political and media landscape has completely changed.

=== Modern Psychology Gaslighting Freud (15:45) ===

[00:46:14]  Do you know?
[00:46:15]  And I think, yeah, I think that is one of them.
[00:46:20]  Well, I feel like these days, if anyone tries to level that complaint at you, just be like, hey, go tell it to Louis Theroux, right?
[00:46:27]  Go make the same complaint to him and then get back to me.
[00:46:31]  I mean, I did actually hear some people saying about Louis Theroux as well, which again was absurd.
[00:46:37]  Okay, we should just stop.
[00:46:39]  Doing documentaries, everybody.
[00:46:40]  Let's just let's stop drawing attention to anything.
[00:46:43]  So, so back to Candace in the I Could Be Oprah stakes.
[00:46:47]  Yes, Candace Owens does have a book club.
[00:46:50]  And from one of those books, we learn a little something about modern psychology.
[00:46:55]  And I had to then go back and try to understand Sebastianism and Frankism.
[00:47:04]  Do you know a bit about this?
[00:47:06]  No, explain them.
[00:47:06]  Yeah.
[00:47:07]  So, I at the same time that I'm sort of questioning what's going on, I For whatever reason fell into a hole regarding modern psychology, Sigmund Freud.
[00:47:17]  Sigmund Freud, factually, okay, there's no disputing this because the Jewish Ashkenazi Jewish director of the Sigmund Freud archives, who was working under Anna Freud and he was about to become the next director.
[00:47:30]  So he was the assistant director, decided, I'm going to actually learn German so I can read all of his notes that have not been published to the public.
[00:47:37]  He was studying to be a psychoanalyst and was like, This is amazing.
[00:47:41]  I have access to all of this stuff.
[00:47:42]  So this guy's name is Jeffrey Masson, very brave man.
[00:47:45]  He's now like 84.
[00:47:47]  And I'm so glad that his book is flying off the shelves in his old age.
[00:47:51]  So he reads Sigmund Freud's notes and he goes, Wait a second.
[00:47:54]  Sigmund Freud famously came up with this theory that children were attracted to their parents and that they were having these dreams and these things never happened to them.
[00:48:05]  And then he says, No, he actually knew that these women were being, these children were being raped.
[00:48:09]  He knew.
[00:48:10]  And he knew some of them were being raped to death.
[00:48:13]  He had gone down, he had seen the evidence at the morgue.
[00:48:16]  And so he goes, Oh, this is crazy.
[00:48:18]  He runs to Anna and he says, Hey, your dad, we've made this big error.
[00:48:22]  Your dad actually.
[00:48:23]  Was gaslighting these kids and gaslighting these people who were being raped, incestuously raped.
[00:48:29]  And so he thinks he's going to run to the psychoanalytic people and say, Ta da, we can now correct history.
[00:48:37]  And what happens is he gets kicked out.
[00:48:39]  He gets kicked out and he publishes the book anyways with the proof that Sigmund Freud knew this.
[00:48:45]  And Anna Freud did not stop him from publishing the book, which is very interesting.
[00:48:48]  She had the power to, and they were pressuring her to stop the publication of the book, but she let it fly.
[00:48:54]  And that book, The Assault on Truth, is a very difficult read.
[00:48:57]  It is the number one thing people should read because he is the father of modern psychology.
[00:49:03]  Okay.
[00:49:03]  Modern psychology is gaslighting.
[00:49:05]  Gaslighting.
[00:49:07]  Okay.
[00:49:08]  So modern psychology is gaslighting.
[00:49:10]  That's the position we're coming from here.
[00:49:13]  I will say this episode had me taking much more of a deep dive on Sigmund Freud than I would have liked.
[00:49:20]  And we'll get to Sabbatianism and Frankism and all of that in a moment.
[00:49:24]  But first, Annie, are you familiar with any of the controversy surrounding Freud's seduction theories?
[00:49:30]  Is what she's talking about here.
[00:49:32]  Yes, yes, I am.
[00:49:33]  And I think she is essentially correct in the baseline claim that Freud did largely discredit claims of abuse that he had heard because he thought it fitted into a theory he had where the.
[00:49:55]  Mother and father were the primary attraction object, essentially, of a child's kind of development.
[00:50:04]  So, I think from what I understand is that, yes, he did assume that some of the encounters that he was hearing about were fantasy rather than truth.
[00:50:19]  Yeah, so I'll kind of start at the beginning for the sake of the audience.
[00:50:26]  So, first, I should say that the seduction theory is one that Freud abandoned.
[00:50:31]  In its most basic terms, it was the theory that obsessional neuroses and hysteria.
[00:50:37]  were singularly caused by unconscious memories of sexual abuse in childhood, often under the age of four.
[00:50:44]  Essentially, because a number of his patients suffering from hysteria or neuroses had also reported sexual abuse in childhood, Freud made a causal link between the two and then set about trying to prove it.
[00:50:56]  Like, he was like, okay, there's a correlation.
[00:50:58]  I think these are the things here.
[00:51:00]  And one of the ways he set about trying to prove it was by interpreting his patients' symptoms and associations to indicate that there were Unconscious memories of sexual abuse prior to the age of four.
[00:51:12]  He would then exert verbal pressure on his patients and then lead them to a degree with an aim of reproducing the deeply repressed memories he insisted were there.
[00:51:22]  Even his patients who went through this remained largely unconvinced that they were abused as children, and within a few years, Freud abandoned his theory after multiple revisions.
[00:51:32]  He also conceded that while sexual abuse in childhood could be a factor in neuroses and hysteria, there was nothing to suggest it was the sole cause.
[00:51:41]  Essentially, he was wrong about a thing and then abandoned that thing in favor of his.
[00:51:45]  Well, he then moved on eventually to Oedipus theory, which states that all sons subconsciously want to kill their fathers and fuck their mothers.
[00:51:54]  And that also then thankfully turned out to be wrong.
[00:51:58]  Freud, listen, Freud did a lot of cocaine.
[00:52:03]  It's noted that that was considered, and I think he described it as an invigorating medicine at the time.
[00:52:10]  And so he got some stuff pretty wrong.
[00:52:13]  My favorite of the things.
[00:52:14]  Freud was wrong about is probably penis envy.
[00:52:18]  I quite like that one, you know, because he noted that, hey, women seem to want a number of things that men had.
[00:52:23]  And he concluded that, no, no, can't be the stuff like right to vote or have a bank account or equal treatment.
[00:52:28]  No, no, no.
[00:52:29]  Every woman actually just wants a massive throbbing cock.
[00:52:33]  That's what the solution is.
[00:52:35]  Yeah, like it's such an extreme example of clinical misogyny, which is part of why Freud, quite rightly, then became a massive target for feminists in the 20th century.
[00:52:46]  And that then led to the first book suggesting that Freud abandoning seduction theory was actually just a man ignoring instances of women reporting sexual abuse.
[00:52:55]  And that was written by social worker and feminist Florence Rush in 1971.
[00:53:00]  But there were problems with the book.
[00:53:02]  First off, she makes a pretty grand assumption that Freud was intentionally covering up sexual abuse.
[00:53:08]  Which was a claim she couldn't back up with definitive proof.
[00:53:11]  And it's also widely known that Freud did still believe many of his patients suffered from sexual abuse as children, but he found it very difficult to discern any sense of absolute truth and felt he would have needed that in order to move forward with academic theories.
[00:53:26]  I would argue differently, but it was the 1800s.
[00:53:29]  Plus, you know, his theory was kind of falling apart anyway, you know, so it did kind of make sense for him to move on.
[00:53:34]  No, that's interesting.
[00:53:35]  I think the Florence Rush account was what I was referencing.
[00:53:38]  So it's interesting to know that it's been.
[00:53:39]  It's been criticized.
[00:53:41]  Well, there's another aspect as well where it was the claims that Florence Rush was making were based on retrospective letters and reports that Freud wrote that detailed his accounts of his early patients.
[00:53:54]  So, this is him years later writing kind of reports on his stuff.
[00:53:58]  And his memory clearly wasn't great because, according to scholars of Freud, the actual patient data from that time differs wildly from Freud's memory of it.
[00:54:07]  And there is also the fact that, supposedly within that data, very few of his patients actually reported.
[00:54:12]  Reported being sexually abused.
[00:54:14]  And that makes sense with his seduction theory because Freud was insistent that all of the memories of sexual abuse were latent in the subconscious and he had to draw it out of his patients.
[00:54:23]  So, therefore, if they already knew about it and were coming forward about it, it couldn't have been subconscious and therefore would have worked against his theory.
[00:54:30]  Yeah, it's a whole thing.
[00:54:32]  It's a whole thing.
[00:54:33]  Yeah, I mean, and she's doing something here.
[00:54:37]  I mean, she says, you know, what she says, he's the father of modern psychology, therefore all modern psychology is gaslighting.
[00:54:46]  It's so interesting to me because it so misapprehends how academic fields work, which is that, yeah, there'll be very few people who wouldn't, wouldn't, who would in the field of psychology who would deny Freud's influence.
[00:55:02]  Sure.
[00:55:03]  On the other hand, you will get very few psychologists or academics working in this field today who don't kind of aren't familiar with all of the ways in which various works of his have been critiqued and built upon and.
[00:55:18]  Redeveloped and debunked.
[00:55:21]  In fact, this is actually something that.
[00:55:23]  Struggled with a bit when I was teaching at university was that it becomes such common knowledge with my students that Freud has been debunked that they would struggle to know why we were reading Freud for a kind of cultural history course.
[00:55:42]  And you sort of say, well, it's not just that we're making you read a bunch of rubbish, it doesn't really matter.
[00:55:49]  The point is, he's been enormously influential on this field.
[00:55:51]  But yes, you won't get many kind of psychologists today just.
[00:55:55]  Straight up doing the exact work of Sigmund Freud with no adjustments or alterations because that's not how fields work.
[00:56:02]  Yeah, it was like foundational stuff, like a lot of it, right?
[00:56:06]  Right, exactly.
[00:56:07]  And it reminds me a bit of Graham Hancock, who kind of is a pseudo archaeologist.
[00:56:14]  And he kind of will do a similar thing with the field of archaeology, where he will point to the field of archaeology revising its own homework, essentially, looking at a site, originally saying, We think this was, you know, belonged to.
[00:56:29]  This century, then coming back and saying, actually, we found this really fascinating thing, which means it can't have belonged to that century, it belonged to this century.
[00:56:36]  And, you know, the thing that we thought meant that it was later was, in fact, just debris from people who'd walked past and things like that, you know, which is how these fields are meant to work.
[00:56:49]  Do you know, it's a sign of the field working when it updates its own information, when it says, this theory doesn't actually work, we need to kind of readjust and reassess.
[00:56:59]  But it's really interesting that she's doing the same tactic as Graham Hancock.
[00:57:03]  Which is sort of using that, you know, using essentially the kind of field working as intended, academia working as intended to further knowledge as a way to discredit that field.
[00:57:18]  Yes.
[00:57:18]  Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
[00:57:21]  Yeah.
[00:57:23]  Working to different ends, I'll say.
[00:57:25]  Graham Hancock seems to, you know, be all about the lost civilization stuff, and who always overwhelmingly seem to be made up of white people, interestingly.
[00:57:35]  Whereas, yeah, Candace is working towards slightly different ends that will become clear shortly.
[00:57:42]  How much do you know about Jeffrey Masson, this guy whose book she's referenced?
[00:57:47]  Anything at all?
[00:57:47]  I've never heard of him.
[00:57:49]  That's for the best.
[00:57:50]  So, Jeff was indeed projects director at the Freud Archives.
[00:57:55]  Jeff found some letters to Wilhelm Fleece that hadn't been published before, and Jeff leapt to some conclusions.
[00:58:02]  He made largely a number of the same claims that Florence Rush did only 14 years later.
[00:58:07]  While also claiming that Freud intentionally suppressed seduction theory because he couldn't accept the idea that children could be sexually assaulted by their own family members.
[00:58:16]  He also claims that Freud gave up on the theory out of cowardice because his peers in Vienna wouldn't have accepted such a thing.
[00:58:23]  And this is where the letters between Freud and Wilhelm Fleece come in.
[00:58:26]  Freud is at best disparaging towards his colleagues in Vienna.
[00:58:31]  The book, The Assault on Truth, as it's called, has been widely discredited and debunked.
[00:58:37]  It's considered melodramatic, dubious, and reliant on fallacies, as well as making numerous errors both historically and psychoanalytically.
[00:58:45]  And to cap it off, Jeff Masson is Quoted as saying, I think that as a result of my findings, we should give up on psychoanalysis as a means of helping people.
[00:58:54]  Which, you know, the only people saying that are the best people, obviously.
[00:58:59]  Whereas, like Candace Owens, well, she hears a salacious story like this and she is all in, baby.
[00:59:05]  No questions asked.
[00:59:06]  It's all indisputable in her words because Jeffrey Masson is Jewish.
[00:59:11]  Therefore, hey, you can't call me anti Semitic.
[00:59:14]  And it is also true.
[00:59:17]  And yeah.
[00:59:18]  She has a few more claims to make about Freud shortly.
[00:59:21]  And it will make sense as to why she's spouting all of this nonsense as empirical fact.
[00:59:26]  So now we get to the other thing that I had to spend way too much time researching.
[00:59:30]  And it again stems from another book from Candace's book club.
[00:59:35]  The second book that people should read is Sigmund Freud and the Jewish Mystical Tradition.
[00:59:39]  Sigmund Freud came from a Sabbatian family.
[00:59:42]  This is Jewish mysticism.
[00:59:44]  It actually has nothing to do with the Torah, it has absolutely nothing to do with the old law.
[00:59:48]  In fact, they said the old law was fulfilled and they believed that this man.
[00:59:52]  Sabbatai Zevi was their Messiah.
[00:59:55]  They have wiped, virtually wiped this man from history, even though half of the world Jewry followed him, believed he was the Messiah.
[01:00:03]  He was a homosexual psychopath who believed in practicing incest as a sacrament.
[01:00:10]  This is how they were going to move forward in the world.
[01:00:12]  And this was a, they worshipped the Kabbalah.
[01:00:17]  Their high book is the, it's, what is it?
[01:00:22]  The Zorah.
[01:00:24]  The Zohar, thank you.
[01:00:26]  It was like the Zohar.
[01:00:28]  And they believe that you rape your kids when they're seven, but you don't tell them why they're raped until they're 35.
[01:00:36]  Now, this is an inversion of some people tell me of the mystic tradition.
[01:00:39]  They've, you know, they've kind of, it's kind of from the Book of the Dead in Egypt, really.
[01:00:43]  But they rape their kids.
[01:00:45]  And Sigmund Freud discovered that the reason that they do this, this is Sigmund Freud's work, is because it conditions the child to grow up to be a psychopath because of what they have to go through trying to understand why their parents did this.
[01:00:54]  This is all real.
[01:00:55]  This is not all of these authors are Jewish.
[01:00:57]  They're not, they support the Jewish movement.
[01:01:00]  The second author, David Bacon, I think actually regrets writing his book because he thought it was going to be this like expose of, you know, why the Jews in Europe should be sympathized for.
[01:01:10]  And then people went, wait, what are you, what's going on here?
[01:01:13]  Like, there's this, all this incestuous rape happening.
[01:01:16]  And I think this is actually the reason, and I encourage Jewish people to read this book as well.
[01:01:22]  I don't think they know their own history because at this time there was a great schism.
[01:01:26]  There were, Actual Jews who were following the Torah, it's a letter of the law, who were getting kicked out of countries because of these Sabbatian Frankists who were actually raping kids.
[01:01:37]  And there's nothing new under the sun, right?
[01:01:40]  So their instinct is to go, why am I being kicked out of a country?
[01:01:43]  What did I do, right?
[01:01:45]  I had nothing to do with this.
[01:01:46]  These are anti Semitic tropes.
[01:01:50]  Boy, howdy.
[01:01:51]  Listen, Jews, you don't know your own history, so go read about it in this book.
[01:01:56]  Yeah, it's like go read about it, but it's also been wiped from the history books.

=== Sabbatian Frankist Anti-Semitic Tropes (12:06) ===

[01:02:00]  Yes, yes.
[01:02:01]  There's this one guy talking about it.
[01:02:03]  So, oh, God, there's a few things to untangle here.
[01:02:07]  Firstly, Annie, do you know much about Sabbationism or Frankism?
[01:02:11]  No, I haven't heard of Sabbationism at all.
[01:02:15]  I think Frankism might have come across before.
[01:02:18]  And I am somebody who works a lot in the field of conspiracy theories.
[01:02:24]  I'm not totally alien to every kind of anti Semitic theory or blood libel that is out there.
[01:02:32]  So, yeah, no, this is a new one to me.
[01:02:35]  There are so many.
[01:02:37]  So, Sabbatianism was a sect of Judaism that arose in the 1600s with a guy called Sabbatai Zevi claiming himself to be the Messiah, basically.
[01:02:46]  And he was backed up by another guy, Antri of something.
[01:02:52]  And yeah, he was very popular.
[01:02:55]  It's difficult to get access.
[01:02:56]  Actual numbers on him, but supposedly he had followers in the tens of thousands, which, you know, in a world with certainly fewer than a million Jewish people in it at the time, that was quite a lot.
[01:03:07]  And then he was forced to convert to Islam when he went to Constantinople in 1666.
[01:03:13]  It was either that or death, so he picked Islam.
[01:03:17]  And a few families converted with him, but otherwise the shine was very much off the apple, largely speaking.
[01:03:24]  And Sabbatianism took a big hit in its popularity.
[01:03:27]  And there was also a strong anti-Sebatian movement as well from various rabbis.
[01:03:34]  Now, do bear in mind, I'm no scholar and I'm very much having to gloss over what was a long and complicated history here.
[01:03:41]  But Sabbatai Zivai eventually died.
[01:03:44]  So far as I could tell, none of the actual kind of Sebatian beliefs themselves were that offensive.
[01:03:50]  Certainly not like what Candace was describing.
[01:03:53]  And then in the mid-1700s, a guy called Jacob Frank came along and was like, hey, everybody, I'm that guy's direct successor.
[01:04:02]  Never mind the 50 years between his death and my birth.
[01:04:06]  Nonetheless, Frank did gain a following, but it was a fraction of the support that Sabbatize Evi had.
[01:04:13]  We're talking around a tenth.
[01:04:16]  And part of that is down to the fact that Jacob Frank was into some real weird shit, including incest, orgies, sex rituals, the lot.
[01:04:24]  He was very big on transgressing Jewish commandments.
[01:04:28]  So, what we actually have here is an offshoot of Sabbatianism that was a cult, no two ways about it.
[01:04:35]  As for Frank, he caused a bunch of trouble throughout Europe and then eventually converted to Catholicism along with most of his followers to essentially stop him from being such a pain in the ass.
[01:04:46]  It was pretty much it.
[01:04:47]  It was like, hey, come over here and we'll stop hunting you to the ends of the earth.
[01:04:52]  And so these two religious sects are connected, but very much not the same.
[01:04:57]  But Candace likes to conflate the two and describe it as Sabbatian Frankism because it makes it seem like actually Frankism was this huge movement occupying half of the Jewish populace.
[01:05:08]  But that was never the case.
[01:05:10]  Even with Sabbatianism, it wasn't the case, let alone with Frankism, which was much, much smaller.
[01:05:16]  So, back to Sigmund Freud, because she made some claims about him.
[01:05:20]  He was neither Sabbatian nor Frankist, like Candace is trying to claim.
[01:05:26]  His dad was famous for just spending all day reading the Torah, as a matter of fact.
[01:05:31]  That was one of the notable things about Sigmund Freud's dad.
[01:05:34]  And what's worse, the book that she's referencing by a guy called David Bacan, which is called Sigmund Freud and the Jewish Mystical Tradition, it doesn't actually make that claim either.
[01:05:44]  In fact, it doesn't say a bunch of the things that she says.
[01:05:47]  Does the main thrust of the book is actually pointing at some of Freud's theories, like the id and superego and whatnot, and saying, like, hey, this has a bunch of similarities to the mystic stuff written in the Zohar, which is a 14th century Jewish text about mystical and esoteric aspects of the Torah?
[01:06:03]  Like, the Zohar did have an impact on Sabbatianism and then to a lesser extent, Frankism also.
[01:06:09]  But Bacan's theory is basically like Freud seems to have based some of his ideas on some of these more kind of ancient concepts and probably had a copy of the Zohar, and that's.
[01:06:19]  Roughly as far as Bacon goes.
[01:06:21]  And it's kind of interesting as a subject to see a basis of influence from theology on modern psychology.
[01:06:27]  I'm like, that's interesting.
[01:06:29]  Unfortunately, he died in 2004, so he's not around to rebut any of Candace's bullshit about this book.
[01:06:36]  Because, yeah, he was never like, oh, Freud was all in on the incest stuff.
[01:06:41]  Not in the slightest.
[01:06:43]  So that's kind of.
[01:06:44]  I also find it kind of just like it's funny that she says her husband says that everything is theology.
[01:06:50]  Because it strikes me as a really theologically illiterate thing to say, where she says mysticism has nothing to do with the Torah.
[01:07:03]  Jewish mysticism has nothing to do with the Torah.
[01:07:05]  Because, I mean, you could say, I mean, it's just like a funny thing to say.
[01:07:11]  Do you know?
[01:07:11]  It feels a bit like if you would say Christian mysticism has nothing to do with the Bible.
[01:07:15]  I mean, well, of course it does.
[01:07:17]  It's coming from this, you know, that's the text of the same religion.
[01:07:21]  Do you know?
[01:07:21]  Like, it's true that kind of like, yeah, mysticism from any religion will kind of generate its own texts, its own kind of experiences.
[01:07:29]  But it's a, yeah, as I say, it's just a kind of, it's a really, Strikingly theologically, yeah, unsound idea.
[01:07:37]  It's kind of inherent, isn't it?
[01:07:39]  You know, like in terms of, you know, you're talking miracles and stuff like that.
[01:07:43]  I'm like, well, yeah, but what else are we going to describe it as?
[01:07:46]  You know, yeah, I mean, you know, there are Christian mystics.
[01:07:48]  I don't know much about Jewish mystics.
[01:07:50]  I'm only kind of extrapolating here, but I imagine it's much the same for Jewish mystics.
[01:07:53]  But there are Christian mystics who kind of, you know, have these out of body experiences and literally transported to scenes in the Bible.
[01:08:00]  Do you know, like, um, and I kind of, I doubt that, you know, obviously I know that Jewish mysticism will be its own tradition.
[01:08:07]  But it sort of just strikes me again as just like a very strange way of putting it, as being like, you know, there's the good side, which is the people of the book, and the bad side, which is, you know, whatever kind of esoteric thing is going on here.
[01:08:21]  Do you know, it's kind of quite a like, yeah, it's kind of an odd way, I guess, to kind of delineate what she's really doing, which is, let's be real, good Jews and bad Jews.
[01:08:33]  A hundred percent.
[01:08:34]  Yeah, I was going to say you picked up on that early.
[01:08:36]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:08:38]  It's categorizing.
[01:08:39]  Which, who we can call the bad Jews and who are the good ones, for sure.
[01:08:45]  So, from here, Candace wants to explain part of how Frankism exists in the modern sense.
[01:08:50]  There was a lie, and this is really important to share that when you start talking about Sabbatianism and Frankism, this was an old fringe movement.
[01:08:57]  This is absolutely untrue.
[01:08:59]  You can read Israeli historian Gershom Sholem's work.
[01:09:02]  Not only is it not true, the very first Jewish Supreme Court justice in America was a Frankist.
[01:09:09]  He kept a picture of Ava Frank on his Supreme Court desk.
[01:09:12]  That's Louis Brandes, okay?
[01:09:14]  It's right in your face what's going on.
[01:09:16]  Okay.
[01:09:16]  They have a tremendous amount of power.
[01:09:18]  They've always had power.
[01:09:19]  And it is because what they believe in is evil is okay.
[01:09:23]  They believe in the doctrine of evil that you must lower yourselves and commit the most depraved acts of evil to prove that evil doesn't actually exist.
[01:09:32]  And then you can ascend in society.
[01:09:35]  That to me seems to be the guiding philosophy of people in Israel, I would say.
[01:09:41]  Like this idea that this is a Sabbatian concept that you can commit.
[01:09:47]  Acts of evil to get ahead in society is when I see what's happening in Gaza.
[01:09:51]  I'm like, how can you, as a human, be okay?
[01:09:53]  I don't care about your religion.
[01:09:55]  I don't care about your philosophy.
[01:09:56]  It's like, how do you look at this and not understand this is evil?
[01:09:59]  Well, you can speak to Christian Zionists, I think in America, they are trickling into the Sabbatian concept of, well, there's a bigger goodness that's going to happen if we allow this evil to take place.
[01:10:11]  You need to understand where this ideology stems from.
[01:10:14]  And that's what I'm committed to helping people to understand.
[01:10:18]  Hmm.
[01:10:19]  Interesting.
[01:10:20]  I do find it interesting that she's connecting Frankism to Christian Zionism.
[01:10:25]  Like, the connection there being that transgression, I suppose, with Christian Zionists being like, hey, we need to make sure all the Jewish folks are in Israel so they can be slaughtered and trigger the end times.
[01:10:35]  Like, I do think it's probably a tenuous connection between the two at best.
[01:10:41]  But yeah, as we'll see, Candace is quite determined that Frankism is the great bogeyman orchestrating all of the world's evils.
[01:10:48]  Yeah.
[01:10:48]  I mean, I just think it's just fascinating the.
[01:10:53]  Lanes that people will walk themselves down when they fundamentally declare that colonialism or racism or apartheid or white supremacy are all illegitimate concepts, essentially.
[01:11:10]  Do you know?
[01:11:13]  Because I think all of those are really good frameworks for understanding the logic of violence.
[01:11:27]  The logic of how you see a government commit the sorts of crimes that we've seen in Gaza.
[01:11:40]  And for the world seemingly to just stand by.
[01:11:45]  I understand that it's a really difficult quandary that people face when they see these scenes of incredible violence, which, let's be real, which I want to be clear, have always come.
[01:12:01]  When a kind of, yeah, when an occupying power commits violence against its subjects, essentially.
[01:12:12]  Do you know, like you can kind of see, yeah, very similar scenes all across the world, persecuted by all sorts of people.
[01:12:22]  So it's funny, but obviously we are kind of seeing so much of it now because of social media and phones and things like that, and the way that.
[01:12:31]  This stuff is not necessarily controlled by a single kind of government body now.
[01:12:41]  So I think it's understandable why people would look at that and say, how can people justify such evil?
[01:12:51]  Luckily, I think there is an immense body of work which actually does explain that pretty well, does explain the kind of like logic of.
[01:13:02]  Yeah, the logic of colonialism, the logic of apartheid, the kind of logic of we have to destroy this kind of subject population because they represent such an overwhelming threat to our own existence.
[01:13:15]  There is countless and countless kind of like interesting and well thought through and crucially non racist ways of theorizing this stuff.
[01:13:27]  But of course, if you've decided that all of that stuff is woke nonsense, which is written by your enemies to confuse, Matters and weaken your nation, then you don't have any of that when you're looking at the images of Gaza.
[01:13:39]  And so, kind of what Candace has had to kind of come up with is kind of construct, well, I have to think of a way that what I have to understand what makes these people uniquely evil.
[01:13:50]  Yes.
[01:13:51]  Do you know, which is actually not really the kind of Yeah, which is not really a sound way to interpret that at all.
[01:14:05]  I wouldn't say so, no.

=== Brandeis Frankist Sect Elitism (02:15) ===

[01:14:07]  And then being like, you know what?
[01:14:08]  I'm going to go back 400 years and then I can figure it out.
[01:14:12]  You know, it's, yeah, yeah.
[01:14:15]  I'd say it hasn't led her anywhere good, put it that way.
[01:14:21]  As for, she mentioned Supreme Court Justice Brandeis there.
[01:14:25]  He did indeed have a portrait of Ava Frank given to him by his mother, though there is no evidence to suggest he kept it on his desk.
[01:14:35]  I found this about Brandeis from a surprisingly well referenced blog.
[01:14:39]  Quote Louis Brandeis was a descendant of one of the prominent Sabbatian Frankist families of Prague.
[01:14:46]  They did not follow Frank's example of conversion to Islam or Catholicism, but maintained a Jewish identity, though very detached from Jewish ritual and practice.
[01:14:55]  His mother, Frederica Brandeis, disdained formal religious ceremonies and encouraged her children to value ethical teachings of religion, including Judaism, while eschewing age old rituals.
[01:15:06]  Brandeis grew up in the family environment where, though born a Jew, he was not raised as a Jew.
[01:15:10]  In fact, he celebrated Christmas, but not the Jewish holidays.
[01:15:14]  Neither did he keep to the kosher laws or the Sabbath.
[01:15:17]  He was very disengaged from Jewish practice.
[01:15:20]  Brandeis' mother gave him a copy of a picture of Eva Frank, who was Jacob Frank's daughter and his spiritual successor upon his death, which was handed down and reserved for those who were privileged descendants of Frankists.
[01:15:32]  This generation of Frankists had thrown off andor forgotten the deviant ways of the founder.
[01:15:36]  Previous generations had actually destroyed the written remnants of their affiliation with the sect, even going door to door to collect any memoirs or written traces of the sect so that they could discard the embarrassing evidence.
[01:15:48]  They continued, however, to maintain a certain elitist pride about being connected to the sect's past.
[01:15:55]  So basically, Brandeis wasn't himself a Frankist and was barely a particularly religious man at all, though he was descended from Frankists.
[01:16:06]  That said, he did become an extremely prominent and important Zionist.
[01:16:11]  And was instrumental in American support of the formation of the State of Israel.
[01:16:15]  And there you can perhaps see why Candace wants to make this connection so strongly between Frankism and Brandeis, right?

=== Mr Beast Military Sights Disturbing (03:35) ===

[01:16:23]  So, from here, somewhat unexpectedly, Candace briefly sets her sights on a very successful YouTuber.
[01:16:31]  It was a different time.
[01:16:32]  Like the icons 50 years ago would cut their only route through music or through sport.
[01:16:37]  Or, you know, you're not if you're not coming through the right schools.
[01:16:39]  I'm not saying that everyone that goes through those schools is bad because I know your husband, who I already love, went to Oxford and stuff.
[01:16:46]  Like that, you know, people making it outside of those channels and outside of those systems was rare and anomalous.
[01:16:52]  Now it can just happen to anyone.
[01:16:53]  You might be Mr. Beast.
[01:16:55]  Just, you know, Mr. Beast is the Howard Stern of these days.
[01:16:58]  Joan Rock.
[01:16:58]  Organic.
[01:16:59]  He's a high military family.
[01:17:01]  Oh, no.
[01:17:01]  Yeah, he was literally.
[01:17:02]  Created.
[01:17:03]  He's not doing Satanism, is he?
[01:17:04]  You can see it in his eyes.
[01:17:05]  Something's not right with him.
[01:17:08]  Look out, Mr. Beast.
[01:17:09]  Candace is coming for you.
[01:17:11]  I kind of like that, yeah.
[01:17:13]  It seems to me like Brand is slightly taking the mick out of her there.
[01:17:17]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:17:18]  He's not doing Satanism really.
[01:17:20]  Like, oh no, not another one.
[01:17:21]  Do you know?
[01:17:22]  Yeah.
[01:17:23]  It feels very much to me like he's kind of indulging her claims, but I don't particularly buy that he seems to be like super like, yeah, this is all I'm going to talk about now.
[01:17:34]  Do you know?
[01:17:34]  Yeah, yeah.
[01:17:36]  It is interesting when he sits down with Candace because he's always, he's much more eager to kind of glom onto whatever Jordan Peterson or Tucker Carlson or even lately Tommy Robinson are talking about.
[01:17:47]  Whereas with Candace, he always seems to, he does seem to come at it with more of a grain of salt, you know, which I appreciate.
[01:17:55]  Yeah.
[01:17:56]  In terms of Mr. Beast, I'm no endorsee of him.
[01:18:01]  I think a number of the videos he does are a distilled version of what is so deeply wrong with social media on the whole, in an outrage farming and emotionally manipulative sense, that is.
[01:18:10]  But, you know, I wouldn't be thinking too much of the fact his parents were in the military.
[01:18:15]  Reality is, he'd been posting videos since he was 13 and then supposedly dropped out of college and spent a solid five years just analyzing YouTube's algorithm and studying the concept of virality.
[01:18:27]  With his friends.
[01:18:28]  Like, there are various portions of his existence that make me physically nauseous to think about, but it is really no surprise that he's ended up at the top of the YouTuber pile.
[01:18:37]  Like, nobody needed to create or manufacture this guy, you know?
[01:18:41]  Yeah.
[01:18:42]  Yeah, no, he's a fully kind of disturbing product of the platform itself rather than anything else, any higher power.
[01:18:50]  Yes, yes, exactly.
[01:18:52]  It's a product of internet poison.
[01:18:54]  That's what's appeared.
[01:18:56]  Yeah, yeah.
[01:18:57]  It's also just like, I don't know, a military family.
[01:18:59]  I mean, You know, there's lots of military families, do you know?
[01:19:03]  I don't necessarily.
[01:19:05]  Yeah, yeah, especially in America.
[01:19:07]  It's one of the biggest militaries in the world.
[01:19:09]  Like, I don't necessarily think that every single one of those people is, like, yeah, hugely politically influential.
[01:19:16]  No, no, no.
[01:19:18]  Certainly, certainly nothing that I could find anyway.
[01:19:21]  But I don't know.
[01:19:22]  Candace is just throwing things out there.
[01:19:24]  I mean, the end of the day, you know, she might start a beef with Mr. Beast and drive some clicks that way, you know, in the conference.
[01:19:31]  That's kind of funny, isn't it, to almost like think about yourself and what.
[01:19:35]  If Candace Owen set her sights on you, what she would say was proof that you were implanted by the government and Mossad and the French all at the same time.
[01:19:49]  I mean, I think she'd struggle to find any connections in that sense.
[01:19:54]  Honestly, I think she'd just make fun of my lipstick and probably end it there.

=== Hierarchy Punitive Right Wing Concept (15:44) ===

[01:19:59]  But yeah, it really doesn't bear thinking about as to where these people would go.
[01:20:04]  You know, it's something I've not tried to consider too deeply, just in case the reality ever does occur.
[01:20:14]  But, you know, I don't think Russell would ever come for me because he's far better off not drawing attention.
[01:20:21]  To his critics in that way.
[01:20:25]  I think it would very much be the Streisand effect.
[01:20:32]  But yeah, fingers crossed, none of that ever happens.
[01:20:37]  So now Russell has some more musing to do, and then Candace shares a theory of hers.
[01:20:43]  I suppose the reason that what's happening with you right now and what's happening with the Epstein thing is so interesting is because it's starting, I suppose, to move into a space.
[01:20:53]  People's focus, people's lens, people's gaze, people's attention is starting to fall on a pace where it's not just, oh, well, these rich families are just creating revenue and creating money.
[01:21:03]  It's starting to arrive at the point where we are identifying that the people that we think are in positions of power, kings, presidents, prime ministers, are only permitted to be in that position if they've been pre compromised and are therefore malleable, so that they can't get in and become president of the United States.
[01:21:23]  Prime Minister of France or England, then go, right, I'm going to do it for you guys because God's real and we're all the same and I love you and we're all one under Christ and this is only temporary and we're in exile.
[01:21:32]  Let's love one another and be willing to die for what we believe in.
[01:21:35]  They've got to stop that happening.
[01:21:37]  Now there are these weird ancillary channels where people like you, who I'm guessing what you're saying is you're willing to die for this.
[01:21:43]  Yeah, I mean, everyone should be, I don't think of it as being like willing to die.
[01:21:47]  It's like, are you willing to go to heaven?
[01:21:48]  You know?
[01:21:49]  And that's the way it's focusing on this world and death all the time is actually one of their strategies.
[01:21:57]  They want you to be fearful.
[01:21:58]  And this is the reason why so many people subject themselves to what they know is evil.
[01:22:02]  This is why they stay silent.
[01:22:04]  And your silence is just complicity.
[01:22:07]  Okay, so people subject themselves to evil out of fear of death, I guess?
[01:22:12]  I don't know.
[01:22:13]  To me, that's a reasonable fear.
[01:22:17]  I don't know.
[01:22:18]  But then again, I was raised atheist.
[01:22:21]  I don't have the same perspective on heaven as Candace does.
[01:22:24]  So I don't know.
[01:22:26]  Do you fear death, Annie?
[01:22:32]  It seems not great to me, you know?
[01:22:34]  Yeah, I mean, I think, well, I think everyone fears death, really.
[01:22:37]  But I think she's also kind of sidestepping the question.
[01:22:40]  Well, because he's sort of saying, Are you willing to die for this?
[01:22:42]  and she's like, No, you don't have to be willing to die for this.
[01:22:45]  Do you know?
[01:22:46]  She's sort of kind of saying, No, you shouldn't even think in those terms, you should just think about being a good person instead.
[01:22:51]  When I don't know, I sort of think that's actually a bit of a sort of sneaky sidestepping of it.
[01:22:59]  I said, You know, right wing Christians can do this, they can kind of, Oh, actually, when Jesus said give your money to the poor, he meant this way.
[01:23:09]  Do you know, like, yeah, um.
[01:23:12]  So, next, we have a clip of Candace that, in isolation, makes her sound almost reasonable.
[01:23:19]  In fact, I occasionally see people who are otherwise left wing sharing some sensible sounding thing that Candace has said at one time or another, often about Gaza, but also it often sounds a bit like this.
[01:23:31]  On a subject of children for me, and that is when I just completely got off of any support for Donald Trump, is when he gaslit us over the Epstein files.
[01:23:40]  And it was a major letdown.
[01:23:42]  I had already kind of been.
[01:23:43]  Distancing myself from politics.
[01:23:45]  It wasn't my strong suit.
[01:23:47]  That was always a difference between me and Charlie.
[01:23:50]  I loved the culture.
[01:23:50]  Charlie loved the politics.
[01:23:52]  He was a natural politician and very diplomatic and would just want to make it work with everybody.
[01:23:58]  I'm not that way.
[01:23:59]  No, you don't.
[01:24:00]  When people censor people, I have nothing to do with them.
[01:24:01]  I don't care how much money they have.
[01:24:03]  I just want to go away.
[01:24:04]  And for me, if we are a society that allows children to be harmed, right?
[01:24:12]  But we're not a society.
[01:24:14]  If we know that's going on and we turn the other way, What's the point of anything that we're doing if we can't keep children safe?
[01:24:23]  And becoming a mother obviously is a major reason why I am so committed to this.
[01:24:31]  See, on its own, borderline reasonable.
[01:24:34]  Aside from the notion of Charlie Kirk being a diplomatic figure, of course, because that's insane.
[01:24:40]  But the rest of it, like, sure, like, wow, we're a society that's harming kids.
[01:24:44]  That does sound bad.
[01:24:45]  And Donald Trump does seem very implicated in all of it in a very big way, doesn't he?
[01:24:49]  That's, yes.
[01:24:50]  It's all like pretty palatable stuff, what she's saying.
[01:24:54]  Now, what I could do here is focus on, you know, all of the right wing power structures that Candace has supported her entire career and how they are all.
[01:25:02]  Uniformly demonstrably bad for children.
[01:25:05]  But what I'd rather pay attention to is her saying, Becoming a mother is a major reason why I am so committed to this, because the this in that sentence is unclear.
[01:25:16]  What is it exactly she's committed to?
[01:25:19]  So let's see if the next clip shines a bit of light on that.
[01:25:22]  The fashion world, as we've learned with Brigitte, my goodness, when you read Becoming Brigitte, I can't, I cannot, like I used to love like Yves Saint Laurent.
[01:25:31]  I am powerful.
[01:25:33]  I mean, like you cannot with these.
[01:25:34]  Brands.
[01:25:34]  What?
[01:25:35]  Yes.
[01:25:36]  I love their trousers.
[01:25:36]  No, you cannot.
[01:25:37]  Are you wearing Yves Saint Laurent?
[01:25:39]  No, but is it pedo gear?
[01:25:41]  It is literally, you can never wear it.
[01:25:43]  It is like, it is so demonic and so disgusting.
[01:25:47]  These were the people, and then they were like, we're going to make this in vogue, right?
[01:25:50]  We're just going to make this all in vogue, and you're going to aspire.
[01:25:53]  So, this in that instance.
[01:25:54]  Well, so, for example, the Balenciaga thing, right?
[01:25:59]  Oh, yeah, where the teddy is still tied up and sort of a bit adjacent.
[01:26:02]  Also, do you realize these are all French brands?
[01:26:04]  It's quite interesting, right?
[01:26:06]  Never trusted him.
[01:26:06]  Yeah, exactly.
[01:26:07]  So, this is coming out of Paris because the Frankists were the ones that caused the French Revolution.
[01:26:12]  Jacob Frank.
[01:26:13]  So, they believed in changing your name, using different identity.
[01:26:16]  And then they flooded into and they overthrew France.
[01:26:19]  Okay.
[01:26:20]  It was always an attack on the Christian empire.
[01:26:23]  Sigmund Freud wrote this explicitly.
[01:26:25]  This is our religion.
[01:26:26]  When people learn that it's our religion, it's problematic.
[01:26:28]  So, we need to practice dissimulation in writing.
[01:26:31]  We need to be not honest about what we're doing because every time people find out what we're doing, like, Suddenly, we're being kicked out of countries.
[01:26:38]  So, Sigmund Freud set about introducing their theology in a cultural way.
[01:26:44]  Okay.
[01:26:44]  This is the beginning of Hollywood.
[01:26:46]  We are going.
[01:26:47]  So, you, if you're following Hollywood, you are asleep and you have already been indoctrinated into a Sabbatian Frankist cult.
[01:26:56]  The evidence for that is right there in books.
[01:26:58]  Like, there's no arguing about who Sigmund Freud was and what his intent was.
[01:27:04]  He's like, we need to modernize, we need to update, we need to make it cool.
[01:27:08]  And then all of these.
[01:27:09]  Cultural movements were born, and they, this is like, you know, this is going to be cool and fashion and vogue and young people, and we're going to be super skinny and we're going to make people care about products and designers and labels.
[01:27:20]  And we have been following pedophiles, gay pedophiles.
[01:27:24]  It's a gay triarchy.
[01:27:26]  Nice.
[01:27:28]  I don't think you've been in pornography yet, but gay triarchy is good.
[01:27:31]  Yeah, I got that from Milo Yiannopoulos, actually.
[01:27:34]  I did.
[01:27:35]  He said that when he was speaking.
[01:27:36]  Oh, no, actually, it was Mark.
[01:27:37]  It was not Milo.
[01:27:38]  It was you.
[01:27:38]  Well done, Mark.
[01:27:39]  It was Mark.
[01:27:40]  Mark said it.
[01:27:41]  He's like, I was like, we don't live in a patriarch.
[01:27:43]  We live in a gay triarch.
[01:27:44]  You're inventing good new slurs.
[01:27:46]  Yes.
[01:27:47]  But it is.
[01:27:48]  It's good.
[01:27:50]  Yep.
[01:27:50]  Good slurs.
[01:27:51]  Well done, everybody.
[01:27:53]  I should be very proud.
[01:27:56]  Oh boy, all right.
[01:27:58]  So, Candace is telling a good chunk of lies here in case it wasn't too obvious.
[01:28:04]  Freud never wrote about Sebatianism or Frankism and was never like, hey, our religion is real weird, so we need to trick everyone into accepting us and make Frankism cool.
[01:28:15]  Because he wasn't Sebatian or Frankist, so why would he need to?
[01:28:18]  Also, when you think cool, you naturally think Sigmund Freud.
[01:28:23]  Immediately springs to mind.
[01:28:25]  Otherwise, Frankists caused the French Revolution, apparently, and were leading an attack on the Christian Empire, and then Freud made everything cool, and so the Frankists also created Hollywood and high fashion, and then consumerism.
[01:28:37]  And us gays are also a product of Frankism, supposedly, and all gays are pedophiles, you know, because Candace is just great.
[01:28:45]  So we've already had a categorization of Jewish people from good Jews to the bad Jews, right?
[01:28:50]  And now Candace is saying, well, these bad Jews, they infiltrated everything and have been leading an attack on Christianity for centuries.
[01:28:59]  I wonder where she could possibly be going with all of this.
[01:29:04]  Yeah, I mean, she's basically doing cultural Marxism theory with extra steps, essentially.
[01:29:10]  This is all just, this is all kind of rehashed cultural Marxism theory.
[01:29:14]  The idea that, yeah, kind of Marxist philosophers, mostly Jewish, infiltrated Hollywood and other kind of cultural institutions in order to subvert hierarchy, in order to destabilize the Christian West.
[01:29:31]  This is, she's just kind of added an extra sort of theological element by.
[01:29:36]  Saying it belongs to this kind of obscure sect from earlier.
[01:29:41]  Yeah, I mean, this is basically a kind of quite classic, when you drill down to it, it's a classic, I don't really want to say right wing argument as so much as I think it's maybe just a right wing concept in general, which is that hierarchy and a kind of quite punitively enforced.
[01:30:07]  Quite strictly delineated hierarchy offered a form of protection.
[01:30:13]  And that, you know, the king protected the lords, protected the peasants, protected the clergy, you know, kind of going on and on and on.
[01:30:24]  And you see this in patriarchy as well, kind of pro patriarchy will often argue this same argument as well.
[01:30:32]  You know, oh, you want to destabilize patriarchy, but all you've done is make women and children vulnerable.
[01:30:38]  Because you've destabilized that central hierarchy, which was keeping everybody safe.
[01:30:42]  Right, right, right.
[01:30:43]  And so that's why she references the French Revolution.
[01:30:46]  Because this is, if you read Corey Robbins, The Reactionary Mind, this is the kind of response, the international response to the French Revolution is actually where a lot of these concepts first kind of become articulated to what we understand now as, I guess, the modern conservative ideology.
[01:31:08]  Essentially.
[01:31:10]  But this is like quite a core concept, essentially, that if I were to argue it from their point of view, that yes, you leftists, you hippies, et cetera, kind of argue that hierarchy is there just because people are mean and want to control you and want to dominate you.
[01:31:28]  But actually, it's there for a reason.
[01:31:30]  It's keeping everybody safe.
[01:31:31]  And by tearing it down, you have created a kind of violent anarchy, essentially, in which women and children, especially, are fair game.
[01:31:44]  Thank you.
[01:31:46]  Yeah, that's, I think, in her kind of Candace Owens style, where she's referencing various sort of historical moments and historical movements in Hollywood and everything, that is what she's essentially saying.
[01:31:58]  Yeah, yeah.
[01:31:59]  The cultural Marxism is definitely pretty rife.
[01:32:02]  And it's funny, like, because I've, like, Russell has repeatedly made kind of a lot of the same kind of talking points from the cultural Marxism side of things.
[01:32:12]  And it's something that he's very much kind of picked up on from Jordan Peterson, especially, because Jordan Peterson is a.
[01:32:20]  Big fan of it to the degree of he tried having a debate with Slavoj Žižek about Marxists once, and they ended up basically talking past each other for the entire thing because Jordan Peterson was trying to argue against cultural Marxism and Žižek was trying to argue about actual Marxism, which are two different things.
[01:32:42]  Yeah, I think there was quite an obvious part where it became clear that Peterson had only read the Communist Manifesto and not Capital.
[01:32:48]  Right.
[01:32:49]  Which, if you're going to argue against Marxism, like.
[01:32:53]  You need to read Capital.
[01:32:55]  Yeah, at that level, especially.
[01:32:57]  I mean, God damn, he just set himself up right there in that moment.
[01:33:02]  So, Candace has thus far done mostly a pretty good job of keeping her mask up, but it does seem to slip here.
[01:33:11]  Possibly because Russell is on board with slurs now.
[01:33:14]  I don't know.
[01:33:15]  But it is important to recognize that if they were that, it was that easy for them to just wipe history.
[01:33:23]  Nobody knows this, right?
[01:33:23]  Not only to wipe history, but then to assert that Sigmund Freud was a hero.
[01:33:28]  Then you can understand what's happening today.
[01:33:29]  They can't even tell us the truth about what happened five minutes ago.
[01:33:32]  Do you think they could tell us the truth about the reasons for war?
[01:33:35]  No, it was what happened.
[01:33:37]  It was all of these revolutions were not natural, they were planned all across Europe.
[01:33:41]  They failed the failed revolutions of, I would say, what was it, 1880, 1845.
[01:33:48]  And then they all came to America.
[01:33:49]  Oh, my.
[01:33:50]  These people who assassinated the Tsar in 1880 then came to America and they were like, pogroms.
[01:33:55]  You mean like you killed the Tsar and people don't want you living with them?
[01:33:57]  Like, I mean, I think that's pretty.
[01:33:59]  You assassinated a Christian king.
[01:34:02]  But they are obsessed with publications.
[01:34:03]  They are obsessed with publishing because they can rewrite history.
[01:34:07]  That is why you cannot trust the mainstream media because that is one of their tools we're going to rewrite history.
[01:34:12]  Not even history.
[01:34:12]  They're rewriting present.
[01:34:13]  They are rewriting present.
[01:34:15]  I say something and they completely lie about what I've said.
[01:34:17]  And they're like, Candace said this.
[01:34:19]  And I'm like, okay, well, I definitely don't believe you about anything in terms of World War I, World War II, what happened in Syria yesterday, what's happening in Syria tomorrow.
[01:34:29]  Because if you can't even tell, The basic truth about what we are observing with our own eyes today about what's happening in Gaza, why should I believe you about anything else?
[01:34:39]  Yeah, none of that was good.
[01:34:44]  So the bad Jews infiltrated a bunch of countries, manufactured a bunch of revolutions, took over publishing and the media, and are constantly rewriting history.
[01:34:54]  So you can't believe anything about World War I or World War II.
[01:34:57]  Incidentally, Candace has some pretty wild things to say about the Holocaust when prompted.
[01:35:02]  If you take away the categorizing of Jews into good and bad, all of this sounds very familiar territory, doesn't it?
[01:35:09]  Every anti Semite in the last century is.
[01:35:11]  Tried to claim that the Jews control the media or the Jews control Hollywood, always with a very hard J, I will point out.
[01:35:19]  And yeah, when it comes to the killing a Christian king that she's talking about, she's on about the assassination of Tsar Alexander II in 1881, and it is a classic anti Semitic canard that the Jews killed him or were responsible.
[01:35:33]  This line was then used by the next Tsar to brutally attack Jewish people in Russia, which Candace seems to quite enjoy trivializing a lot of the time.

=== Ethnic Group Background Frequency (13:01) ===

[01:35:43]  So, her perspective is very much, well, you did it, therefore it's your fault, you know.
[01:35:49]  She does also claim that Frankists infiltrated the Catholic Church, and that they're the only reason the Catholic Church has a bad reputation for diddling kids, and that it's the Frankists who are in charge of the Israeli government.
[01:36:02]  So, here's what I think happened Candace Owens has spent several years being labeled as a vicious anti Semite, because she is one, but she got sick of being called that.
[01:36:12]  So, when she discovered Sabbatianism and Frankism, as well as the multiple Conspiracy theories surrounding both of those things, she thought, oh, hell yeah.
[01:36:19]  Now I can shit on the Jews as much as I want, and no one can call me anti Semitic because I'm calling them Frankists instead.
[01:36:26]  Like you say, you know, cultural Marxism, anti Semitism with extra steps.
[01:36:30]  It's Candace's version of globalists.
[01:36:32]  You know, it's a dog whistle just laced with historical inaccuracies and outright lies going back 400 years.
[01:36:40]  Yeah.
[01:36:41]  It's a lot of effort.
[01:36:43]  Yeah.
[01:36:43]  And she kind of uses it to justify.
[01:36:48]  To justify historical anti Semitic violence as well.
[01:36:50]  Kind of, oh, we're getting kicked out of countries, or, you know, oh, well, what do you mean?
[01:36:56]  These people, of course, these people pogromed you if you killed their czar.
[01:36:59]  Do you know, like, even if I were to accept her argument on her terms, she is essentially arguing that these acts were justified even if they scooped up a few good Jews.
[01:37:14]  Yes, yeah.
[01:37:16]  And she accepts that in her argument.
[01:37:17]  She accepts that good Jews are being targeted.
[01:37:22]  In these waves of anti Semitic violence.
[01:37:25]  But she's just essentially kind of saying, but it was justified because there were some bad Jews who were doing genuinely subversive things.
[01:37:33]  Yeah, and that's just inherently so insidious.
[01:37:38]  Yeah.
[01:37:40]  I mean, yeah, it's one of those things where I am.
[01:37:45]  It's a funny canard of right wing anti anti racism, I guess, where they will often try and back their kind of opponent into a corner into saying that they, you know, by saying, you know, well, making them sort of, you know, try and argue that every single person in any given ethnic group is perfect.
[01:38:09]  Do you know?
[01:38:10]  Almost as, and it's always such a flawed conceit because it's like, even if they weren't, even if 50% of them weren't perfect, Even, do you know, like it wouldn't be justification for racist violence.
[01:38:20]  Yeah.
[01:38:21]  Yeah.
[01:38:22]  And it's kind of interesting the way that this argument just plays out among, I've seen among different racial hierarchies, different racial groups, always backing back again.
[01:38:32]  Well, what do you have to say about this person from this ethnic group who did this terrible thing?
[01:38:35]  What do you have to say about this person from this ethnic group who did terrible things?
[01:38:39]  Do you know, like it always kind of comes back to this as if, you know, surely if I could find enough of them, I can make you accept.
[01:38:47]  Essentially, that it's just okay to use kind of the full oppressive force of the state against certain ethnic groups and not others.
[01:38:57]  Which is, when you think about it, very ironic because she's the one saying, like, hey, Israel are justifying all of this violence, you know, saying, you know, it's a means to an end kind of thing.
[01:39:07]  And she's doing the same thing just historically, you know, or in the present day, in some cases.
[01:39:14]  But yeah, yeah, it's, yeah, you would hope there's some cognitive dissonance.
[01:39:19]  Well, it's why I think this kind of Right wing anti Israel turn is such a dead end.
[01:39:23]  Do you know when you see people like Candace Owens or you see people like Tucker saying something that kind of makes sense on Gaza, you know, where they're saying it's an atrocity, it's terrible what's being happened, why isn't anyone doing something about it?
[01:39:34]  And I've also seen what you've seen with left wing people being, you know, sharing it, you know, and admiration.
[01:39:41]  You need to understand it's a dead end because actually, even if they happen to be right on this one issue, their entire moral kind of framework.
[01:39:50]  It's just simply that this particular ethnic group doesn't deserve this treatment.
[01:39:55]  Not, do you know that no ethnic group deserves it?
[01:39:58]  Yes, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
[01:40:00]  And I will say, like, Candace is one of those people who actively benefits from the conflation of anti Semitism and anti Zionism.
[01:40:08]  Because she is an anti Semite and her support for Palestine does seem to largely come from a place of not liking the Jews, that seems to come first.
[01:40:17]  But for the last few years, she's been able to be like, oh no, I just.
[01:40:20]  Don't like Israel or I don't like genocide because the thing is, she hates brown people and Muslims too, but she hates Jewish people just that little bit more, you know.
[01:40:29]  And yeah, again, means to an end for now.
[01:40:33]  So, in terms of what qualifies as a conspiracy for Candace, we've already heard that it can be both an absence of information or information being presented.
[01:40:42]  But what qualifies as truth to Candace?
[01:40:44]  You know, how does she know something is true?
[01:40:47]  And well, her answer to that is genuinely quite troubling.
[01:40:51]  And that's what's happening today when you kind of refer to how power is transferring away from the mainstream is that people know truth when they hear it.
[01:41:03]  Because I believe, and this is not, I'm not trying to assert myself as someone that you should believe in, but I'm saying I have always felt that truth carries a more powerful frequency.
[01:41:16]  That's why they require our silence.
[01:41:18]  And the lie, and Ian Carroll said this, a lie has to be repeated over and over and over again because it's a weaker frequency.
[01:41:23]  I have to keep saying Candace is an anti Semite.
[01:41:26]  Candace is a self hating black person.
[01:41:28]  Russell, Russell is a rapist.
[01:41:29]  Rapist, they have to say it over and over again.
[01:41:31]  Because then when someone comes in with the truth and they just have to say that once, and people go, that sounds right.
[01:41:37]  I know that that is, I can, it's easy.
[01:41:40]  It hits differently when someone's telling you the truth.
[01:41:43]  And no matter how many times they tell you Candace is crazy, when I say on my podcast, this event, this turning point event came together too fast.
[01:41:51]  Okay.
[01:41:51]  I've been on the road with Charlie for four, longer than four years.
[01:41:56]  From 2018 to 2024, I did every college campus tour with Charlie.
[01:42:02]  Okay.
[01:42:03]  It has never come together starting in August.
[01:42:06]  It's planned at least a semester in advance.
[01:42:08]  Why did this event come together so quickly?
[01:42:11]  People go, that's interesting.
[01:42:13]  A thousand Christian Judeo influencers can come out and say, that's not true, as they did.
[01:42:19]  I booked an event just last week.
[01:42:20]  They're lying.
[01:42:21]  And I don't know why they're lying, but now I'm focused on figuring out why they're lying.
[01:42:26]  Okay.
[01:42:27]  Because these are weird lies, these are unnecessary lies.
[01:42:29]  Like, you don't have to lie about this stuff.
[01:42:31]  And that's what I think people are.
[01:42:35]  This is kind of the moment that we're at right now the frequency of truth is hitting, and more people are being encouraged to say the truth.
[01:42:41]  And so the truth is growing louder, and that is a threat to the liars.
[01:42:46]  So, I'm gonna ignore her beef with the other Christian influences there.
[01:42:51]  Because that lady just.
[01:42:53]  Judeo Christian influences.
[01:42:54]  Yes, Judeo Christian influences.
[01:42:56]  It's kind of the first time I've actually seen that used as a slur.
[01:43:01]  Yes, right.
[01:43:04]  This lady just said that truth literally carries a different and more powerful frequency than lies.
[01:43:10]  And so people will instinctively recognize truth when they hear it.
[01:43:14]  And that's the standard of proof that we're working with.
[01:43:17]  It's literally.
[01:43:18]  Does this feel right to me?
[01:43:20]  And there are so very many reasons not to take Candace Owens seriously as a human being, regardless of how much money she makes and how many people listen to her.
[01:43:29]  And for me, this is probably near the top.
[01:43:32]  Because if your whole brand is like, I tell dangerous truths that no one else is willing to say, and then you tell me your way of knowing something is true is by literally sensing the frequency of it, like how the fuck am I supposed to take that seriously at any point, you know?
[01:43:47]  Yeah, but this is an increasingly popular refrain.
[01:43:51]  Again, I brought up Crane Cancock earlier.
[01:43:53]  But he uses a very similar thing, which is that he, it's, and it's a reason why, even though he's not particularly in this same milieu of kind of right wing culture warriors, they all really love him.
[01:44:05]  Yeah.
[01:44:06]  Yeah, Russell loves him.
[01:44:07]  Yeah, because he speaks to that same quite intense anti materialist fervor that's happening on the right right now.
[01:44:18]  This is a kind of really deep sort of trend of kind of anti materialism.
[01:44:24]  And yeah, he does a lot of, You know, you can feel the truth in the kind of history I'm giving you.
[01:44:34]  You don't need to read all of these books.
[01:44:35]  You don't need a university education.
[01:44:37]  You can feel it.
[01:44:38]  You can kind of communicate with it if you kind of, well, if you take ayahuasca like him, but crucially, if you just kind of ruminate on it hard enough.
[01:44:49]  And it's a very, yeah, this kind of focus on this kind of enshrining of intuition, of vibes, is really strong on the right right now.
[01:45:07]  Yeah, this kind of, and I think it's connected to quite intimately the conspiratorial turn, where every institution is corrupt, every kind of knowledge sort of, anywhere that you might sort of seek to kind of gain.
[01:45:21]  That you might look at to gain knowledge that has been kind of legitimized through the institutions is essentially toxic.
[01:45:29]  Yes, it's the inherent kind of anti intellectualization.
[01:45:37]  There's a word there somewhere.
[01:45:39]  Yeah, it is anti intellectualization.
[01:45:44]  There's a word.
[01:45:48]  And I think it's easy to call it that from.
[01:45:54]  From our perspective.
[01:45:56]  But I think.
[01:45:59]  I think we shouldn't underestimate how romantic it is as a notion to people.
[01:46:02]  Yeah.
[01:46:05]  That they kind of just have this sort of ability within themselves, which doesn't require lots and lots of kind of reading and research and hard work, but that they kind of have this ability kind of just to sort of scope out the truth.
[01:46:27]  Just, I think.
[01:46:30]  We can, and you know, I'm particularly conscious of this from someone coming from an academic background.
[01:46:35]  We can't, it's easy to sneer at.
[01:46:38]  And I think academics do that because it is kind of threatening to their field, to their work, do you know?
[01:46:45]  So I understand it.
[01:46:46]  But I do think we should maybe, I think it's worth focusing on why people are so attracted to that idea as well.
[01:46:55]  Because I do think this kind of, these ways of knowing, this kind of sense of, Sense of kind of deep, it's often linked in terms of kind of ancestral knowledge that we have this kind of fine tuning to kind of spiritual truth, to moral truth, is something that people feel very, very attracted to.
[01:47:19]  And it's probably something that we, if we want to persuade people, that we do need to work with.
[01:47:28]  Yeah, yeah.
[01:47:30]  I think obviously the problem is you then have.
[01:47:33]  Russell and people like him on the other side being like, oh, they're just all elites.
[01:47:37]  They're all working against you.
[01:47:39]  And not kind of realizing that, I mean, I did a music degree.
[01:47:43]  I'm no academic comparatively.
[01:47:45]  But like my brother, for instance, he's got papers published in like nuclear engineering, that kind of side of things.
[01:47:51]  Not realizing that he came from the same working class background that I did, that everyone in my area did.
[01:48:00]  From this, much more than the likes of Candace Owens are, that's for sure.
[01:48:05]  And the other tricky thing is like, The kind of existential threat to academia is real when it eventually escalates to the point of people in power, like what Donald Trump has done, you know, with the amount of PhDs that got cut short and, you know, the amount of research that's just been obliterated within days of the man taking office.
[01:48:28]  You know, it's, yeah, it's a difficult thing to navigate.
[01:48:32]  But yeah, kind of, I don't know what the answer is to kind of dissuade people from the idea that, you know, I instinctively know, you know, it's worrying.
[01:48:43]  It is worrying.

=== Great Reset Conspiracy Model Power (07:13) ===

[01:48:45]  Yeah.
[01:48:45]  Yeah.
[01:48:46]  I think one thing that we can do is actually just like model.
[01:48:49]  Model.
[01:48:52]  Essentially, self doubt and self criticism.
[01:48:54]  Do you know?
[01:48:56]  And yeah, essentially, yeah, not be afraid to kind of say, my intuition took me this one way and I was wrong.
[01:49:07]  Do you know?
[01:49:08]  Yeah.
[01:49:09]  I think that's probably like, yeah.
[01:49:10]  I think largely people do actually respect, as much as people love this idea that they have this special fine tuned vibe detector, people also do kind of respect people who will do that.
[01:49:21]  Yeah, yeah.
[01:49:22]  If you can own your shit.
[01:49:23]  You know, proverbially.
[01:49:25]  Yeah, I do think that resonates with people.
[01:49:28]  All right, so we've got one final clip here.
[01:49:31]  And Russell identifies yet another layer of demonic forces in our society.
[01:49:36]  My kids, they play like toka boca.
[01:49:39]  They can't play Minecraft, that's demonic.
[01:49:41]  Can't play Roblox, that's demonic.
[01:49:43]  Yep.
[01:49:43]  Toka boca in there, they like, oh, can we buy this house, Dad?
[01:49:47]  It's like real money.
[01:49:47]  Like it's one night, and I have to go, what?
[01:49:49]  Like I have to give them $2, you know, in a digital format of real money so they can acquire possessions in this world.
[01:49:55]  And I think, oh, yes, that's not the last layer of it.
[01:49:58]  This is a layer of that.
[01:49:59]  We are trading pixelated, illusory matter projected onto a field temporarily that we are the occupant of and potential co creators with Him when we accept Christ, when we become a channel of His peace.
[01:50:11]  As St. Francis says, by sanctifying ourselves, we sanctify society by allowing the sanctification to come, by allowing the pain to come, by doing those prayers for praying for people so that you change.
[01:50:20]  So the part of you that's still wedded and glommed onto that can be released and free because.
[01:50:28]  It's not real anyway.
[01:50:29]  Only he is real.
[01:50:30]  He is the ultimate reality.
[01:50:31]  That which is practiced in time is by its nature entropy falling apart even now.
[01:50:35]  Only his eternal glory is worth worshiping and bowing down for.
[01:50:38]  I wonder why they're so committed to it, Candace.
[01:50:41]  I wonder what they're getting out of it.
[01:50:42]  I wonder what these dark forces that are no doubt real are getting out of whatever they do.
[01:50:48]  It's money, Russell.
[01:50:51]  It's capitalism and it's money.
[01:50:53]  And here's the thing as someone with a five year old daughter, if Russell wants to claim that microtransactions in children's games are the work of Satan, I am entirely and completely on board.
[01:51:06]  That's the most sensible thing he's said in years.
[01:51:10]  It's just what I resent is how long it took him to get to the point.
[01:51:15]  And the tangent afterwards.
[01:51:18]  But yeah, I'm.
[01:51:19]  I'm with him.
[01:51:20]  I'm with him.
[01:51:21]  That's at least a point I can agree with him on.
[01:51:23]  Yeah, it's funny.
[01:51:25]  It's funny the what are they getting out of it line.
[01:51:28]  Yes.
[01:51:30]  Because it's actually something that when I've been at rallies driven by the anti COVID skeptic kind of conspiracy theory that that was, you know, that COVID was somehow a hoax.
[01:51:44]  And then later the Great Reset conspiracy theory.
[01:51:49]  When I went to the kind of 15 mini cities protest in Oxford, all of which I should Say, if anyone's listening and interested, you can listen to one on the QAA podcast.
[01:51:59]  I would ask people this because it was something I really, really wanted to understand.
[01:52:05]  Do you know?
[01:52:06]  I would say, why are they doing this?
[01:52:09]  What is the grand reason?
[01:52:12]  Because they have, you know, the Great Reset, they have all of this.
[01:52:15]  They want to control us.
[01:52:16]  They want to, you know, they want to keep us in our 15 minute zones and we won't be allowed to drive to places and we won't be allowed to, we'll only be allowed to buy certain things at the shops and, You know, they'll get rid of all the jobs and they'll control us via UBI because once they control your income, then you're a slave, blah, blah, blah, blah.
[01:52:35]  Social credit scores.
[01:52:36]  Yeah, And every single time I'd be like, why?
[01:52:41]  What's the age?
[01:52:42]  Why?
[01:52:44]  And I could never really get a satisfying answer.
[01:52:46]  It would always be kind of a bit like Candace's sort of theological kind of thing, you know, oh, well, they just love that.
[01:52:53]  They just want control.
[01:52:55]  I remember one guy actually giving me something that.
[01:52:57]  Vaguely felt satisfying where he said that these people we're talking about are so fabulously wealthy that they can, there's nothing else that can kind of bring them joy other than power.
[01:53:10]  Do you know, other than to kind of consolidate power?
[01:53:12]  And in a weird way, I was like, okay, actually, even though I don't think that's what's going on, that is a logical argument.
[01:53:18]  Yeah, there is a logic there.
[01:53:21]  There is a logic there, but most of the time people could not really answer.
[01:53:27]  And I just found it so funny because, yeah, again, I guess coming from a kind of left wing materialist point of view, your answer is perfect.
[01:53:38]  They want money.
[01:53:45]  But the problem is if this is your logic for why rich and powerful people do the things they do, because they want money, then actually a lot of the things that Are projected to happen in the conspiratorial mindset, fall apart because they're wastes of money.
[01:54:02]  Yeah.
[01:54:04]  And I often thought this about, yeah, the kind of great reset conspiracy at all, the kind of understanding that our elites wanted to control all of our movements and control everything that we did and things like that.
[01:54:16]  And I sort of thought, like, actually, my theory of power is they're increasingly hands off.
[01:54:22]  Do you know?
[01:54:23]  Like, so long as you're spending money, so long as you're kind of consuming things.
[01:54:30]  Actually, this kind of idea that they sort of care about where you go, or do you know the idea that they really want to confine you to your apartment?
[01:54:40]  Well, where's the money in that?
[01:54:42]  Like, they do you know, like, yeah, it's interesting because, and then I thought there were kind of real blind spots to this theory of power where you know they're kind of constantly nervous about surveillance, but they're all just very happily using kind of Facebook and clicking yes on cookies and all of this sort of stuff, which you're thinking.
[01:55:03]  Actually, there's one kind of surveillance which probably is incredibly sinister and is benefiting the powerful.
[01:55:10]  It is digital surveillance.
[01:55:12]  Do you know?
[01:55:14]  Yeah.
[01:55:15]  Anyway, I'm getting a bit off topic, but I guess that question that he is asking of why, what are they getting out of it, I can really relate to.
[01:55:25]  It's just like, I'm sorry, I just don't really believe in this story.
[01:55:29]  It's like, oh, because they all follow this mystical religion that I just found out about, you know.
[01:55:35]  Where they worship evil and they hate good and they want to do evil because it makes them feel so powerful.
[01:55:45]  I just actually don't think that's how people work.
[01:55:48]  Yeah, no, like from what I've seen of the super wealthy, most of them seem so incredibly divorced from reality that they're just, you know, they're so bored that they'll be like, hey, I want to go into space.

=== Digital Surveillance Sinister Sky (01:38) ===

[01:55:58]  Let's try that.
[01:55:59]  You know, they're just like, I've done everything else.
[01:56:02]  I have all the money.
[01:56:03]  You know, like, and yeah, I don't think they spend.
[01:56:08]  Any time at all thinking about the likes of you or I. You know, we are dots on a page.
[01:56:14]  Yeah.
[01:56:16]  Because why would they?
[01:56:18]  Right.
[01:56:19]  They can live the most fantastical, absurd lives that they want.
[01:56:22]  And that's what they do.
[01:56:24]  That is what they do.
[01:56:25]  Oh, dear.
[01:56:26]  Well, Annie, thank you so much for coming on.
[01:56:28]  It's been an absolute pleasure to take this ride with you, as much as it can be, anyway.
[01:56:34]  Thanks so much for having me.
[01:56:37]  Everyone needs to go and listen to QAA, obviously, and follow you on Blue Sky.
[01:56:41]  I will.
[01:56:41]  I'll include links in the description.
[01:56:44]  Anywhere else anyone needs to go?
[01:56:47]  No, that's about it.
[01:56:49]  Sweet.
[01:56:49]  All right.
[01:56:50]  Short and simple.
[01:56:51]  Well, thank you very much.
[01:56:53]  And that's our show, everybody.
[01:56:56]  If you want to check out some of Annie's work, first follow her on Blue Sky and also check out the QAA podcast as well as the QAA Patreon.
[01:57:04]  And there's some additional stuff back there as well.
[01:57:06]  And if you want to support what I do, then please head to patreon.comslash onbrand.
[01:57:11]  I would love to have you.
[01:57:12]  As ever, links in the description, all that stuff.
[01:57:15]  Please click them, rate, review, all the usual stuff that I forget to mention.
[01:57:20]  Yeah, reviews are good.
[01:57:21]  Do that.
[01:57:22]  Anyway, on brand, we'll be back real soon.
[01:57:25]  But in the meantime, take care of yourselves and each other.
[01:57:27]  Thank you very much.
[01:57:27]  I love you.
[01:57:29]  Bye bye.
[01:57:31]  All right.
[01:57:32]  I'm going to finish now because I'm hungry and I want to eat something.
[01:57:36]  All right.
[01:57:36]  Bye.