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April 24, 2025 - On Brand
02:14:29
Jordan Peterson, Again w/Will Weldon

Will Weldon joins me to tackle the latest instalment of Russell's never-ending conversation with Jordan Peterson in which we learn, well, very little.Listen to Will's show I Hate Bill Maher! - https://pod.link/1746469734Buy Tickets for Will's IHBM show in LA! - https://www.eventbrite.com/e/i-hate-bill-maher-live-tickets-1312155635829Support On Brand on Patreon! - https://patreon.com/OnBrand

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Time Text
This is propaganda live.
I only suggest how to think and how to vote.
Extraordinary cultural moment.
Already iconic.
Already iconic.
We love you.
You're welcome here.
I almost sound like a conspiracy theorist, but it's a bit lame now.
They don't want to have a conversation debate, but they're lying.
And this is a matter now of fact and record.
Trump is like Hitler.
Let me count the ways.
I'm a Nazi, actually.
I'm a Nazi actually and I've kept it now until now but this is my chance.
God is propaganda.
Did you get it?
Did you get it?
I feel that Christ may have had a better vision.
One.
Bastards, aren't they?
I mean, you can't watch too much of this without realising they're absolute bastards.
Let's go full screen on Russell.
This is On Brand, a podcast where we discuss the ideas and antics of one, Russell Brand.
I'm Al Worth, and each week I go through an episode of Stay Free with Russell Brand in order to dissect and debunk it.
And this week I am joined once again by comedian, actor, and host of the I Hate Bill Maher podcast, Will Weldon.
I don't usually plug guest stuff up top, but Will is doing a live show of I Hate Bill Maher in Los Angeles on April 29th with fellow guest of this show, John Hastings, as well as Vera Drew, Diego McAfee, and none other than Francesca Fiorentini as well.
I also know some of what Will has planned for the evening, and I have to say it sounds nuts, in a very, very fun way.
Were it not a literal ocean away, I would absolutely be attending.
So, if some of you Awakening Wonders can make it in my stead, please do so.
I can promise you will have a great time.
In any case, in today's show, Will and I will be covering none other than Russell's latest conversation with Jordan Peterson over on Jordy Pete's channel.
But before we get into that, we have a new member of the Invisible Hand here, and I have an updated Invisible Hand drop for such an occasion.
So, Fasian Gallus, you are now...
The invisible hand.
Let me tell you that we love you.
And we are here because of you.
You are fundamentally beautiful.
Not others.
You. I believe you are fundamentally beautiful.
Wow, look at that shiny purple.
If talking for ages and ages without making a point is going to be applauded, someone's going to have to start paying me money.
There is a sort of an invisible hand guiding these events.
What? What are you talking about?
I don't want to be reductive.
But I am.
So that's how it comes out.
What are you talking about?
And careful what propaganda you listen to.
Sage advice.
Fajan Gallas, thank you so much.
And if anyone wants to support the show financially by becoming an awakening wonder, joining the invisible hand, or donating on an elevated tier, head to patreon.com slash onbrand and sign up and you will have my eternal gratitude and you will be able to access additional content as well as a completely ad-free version of the show.
This Sunday we'll see the return of music is nice exclusively for patrons.
But for now, let's get to a fun and mildly harrowing conversation with Will Weldon.
Will Weldon, thank you so much for coming back on the show.
Welcome back to the Fun Zone.
So happy to have you here.
Have you ever called it the Fun Zone before?
No, but I am starting to realize that that's basically, you know, this is essentially a show where I torture guests with...
The worst things I can find on the internet is just most of them happen to be Russell Brand.
You know?
That's basically what's happening.
You know, for so long, you know, my favorite part of my podcast is becoming just showing people, just showing my guest, or, like, just showing them the monologue jokes from an episode of Real Time with Bill Maher.
And instead of, like...
Immediately sort of jumping in to make sure they know, hey, you can jump in and make jokes and sort of establish comfort with them.
I like to say the joke to them and then just sit in silence and watch.
Just watch the pain.
Yes, watch them be like, God, I really did sit through that dog shit, didn't I?
Yeah, it's amazing how you can become psychically numb to it, really.
For me, in doing this show, the first six to eight months was kind of rough in just the amount of Russell I was intaking every week.
But then you just become slowly numb.
Oh, dear.
And I imagine the same has happened for you with Bill Maher.
Sort of.
I mean, the issue is I get...
It bothers me when I feel numb to it.
Because at this point, I'm chasing the dragon.
So at this point, I'm like, I want something good.
And the things I would refer to as good, other people would be like, put that man in jail.
But when he says that kind of thing...
Monstrous! That's good.
Yeah, it's like I'm taking the rolled-up dollar bill away from my nose, and I'm like, oh yeah, let's write a play, guys.
That's the shit that energizes me.
Your show is, I hate Bill Ma.
You need something that...
That inspires the hate.
That's what you're looking for, you know?
Oh, yeah.
Yeah. And I just watched the episode of Real Time where he talked about going to the White House to have dinner with Donald Trump, Kid Rock, and Dana White.
I was going to ask you about this, right?
Because last time you and I spoke was when I came back to I Hate Bill Maher to cover his club random conversation with Kid Rock, during which Kid Rock said he'd fly Bill to the White House for dinner with Trump, which was nuts.
And that dinner has since...
And I've not had the time or capacity to actually follow it fully.
So fill me on the situation.
What's been going on?
So it's...
And I'll say, when that was broached, I feel like our general reaction to this was like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Like, sure.
Like, you know, this is just like two guys bullshitting with each other.
It happened so soon afterwards.
Like a week!
Yeah, within a week.
And he did a...
So it happened...
Then his show was on a one-week hiatus, and he came back.
And my big thing with it was I was afraid.
Obviously, I was obsessed with it and just wanted to know what happened because I've had a sick obsession with this guy for a really long time.
I was worried.
It would drive real interest to his show.
I was afraid people would care because the last thing I want is for this guy to become relevant again.
Despite the fact it might be good for like my Patreon numbers, I just want him to fade away and I want the show to go away because it's so bad.
And nobody cared.
He did a 13-minute monologue on his show about it and he kept talking about Donald Trump.
He was sane.
He listened to me.
I know.
I'm surprised too.
Hate me if you want.
He kept saying, hate me if you want.
I'm just reporting what happened.
And he just couldn't get in his head.
The thing is, people don't care what happened.
People aren't mad at you for being like, oh, the president was charming one-on-one.
Yeah, he's the president.
Every president, that's...
If Bernie Sanders had become president, he would have been two firsts.
One, the first Jewish president, and two, the first president who is not charming in a personal capacity one-on-one.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
There's a reason specific people get that gig, you know?
And it's like, the issue people had with it is you went and sort of joked around with a guy who is kidnapping green card holders and...
Sending them to a slave labor prison in El Salvador.
Like, the most fascist stuff.
And, you know, they're talking about doing it to American citizens.
Like, I just have to pray that nothing happens to my family for whatever amount of time.
Because I can't leave the country.
Because I'm not...
There's literally now a warning of, like, Visa and green card holders.
They say, don't leave the country.
Because we can't guarantee you'll be let back in.
One guy, he had...
Protected status.
He had a green card.
He went in for his citizenship meeting.
They arrested him and they are trying to deport him right now.
Fuck. Jesus Christ.
It's so nuts.
And Bill Maher cannot...
He's like, look, I have a problem with that too.
I'm just saying what happened at the dinner.
And he can't wrap his head around the fact that nobody cares what happened at this dinner.
Nobody cares what you guys talked about.
Oh, that's incredible.
And clearly the reaction was so bad because on Thursday he went on...
The joint production by TMZ and Los Angeles Magazine.
This podcast Two Angry Men which is hosted by Harvey Levin.
Who is the founder of TMZ and I think like the executive editor of Los Angeles Magazine, which is a rag now.
It's like a publicity rag for the rich.
It got bought by an Orange County rich guy and turned into just a rag.
They gutted it, cleaned out all the staff and now you can essentially pay your way in there.
They ran a puff piece about a rich socialite woman who killed two children in a hit and run accident.
And she was driving drunk.
And they ran a puff piece on her.
Like, while she was awaiting the verdict in her trial.
Like, really crazy stuff in this magazine.
He went on their podcast and was clearly so pissed about the reaction.
Almost universally negative reaction to that episode.
He went on their podcast and like, whined and sulked and threw a hissy fit.
Twice he said the phrase, I should be a hero for this.
I should be a hero for having dinner with, like, chief fascist.
Because he's like, I spoke truth to power.
And Harvey Levin, who is a bad guy and was originally one of, it was like TMZ and the Inquirer were Trump's, like, media shields, were running, like, you know, running defense for him.
At some point, Harvey Levin and Trump had a falling out.
And Harvey Levin, the founder of TMZ, an evil publication, an evil, evil business, he is the one who was like, I get what you're saying.
And they're friends.
He's like, I get what you're saying, but I've known this guy for decades.
And this is just what he does.
He makes you think.
He's listening to you.
His example, he's like, I...
He called me.
He's like, what's your problem with me?
And I told him, I'm seeing this stuff you're saying about, you know, you're calling Colin Kaepernick and these other players who are kneeling.
You're calling them bums.
You're saying they should be fired.
That is, this country was built on free speech.
You know what ended the Vietnam War was people burning American flags and protesting.
What, your problem with this is bad.
And Trump said to me, nobody ever talks to me this way.
Nobody ever says no to me.
I want to talk to you at least once a month to get your feedback on this stuff, because I think it's so valuable.
Harvey Levin was like, oh my god, I got through to him.
I hung up the phone.
Ten minutes later, he once again tweeted, fire all these bums.
So, like, you think he's taking it in, but then literally immediately you realize, oh, it meant nothing to him.
And Bill Maher is like, no, I don't think you're right.
I think you're reading the situation wrong.
And it's like, this old guy is so brittle and defensive.
He's like, he's telling this man, no, you don't know.
You don't know what happened to you in this very easy to figure out anecdote you just laid out for me.
I think you're wrong.
I think you're just over one.
He's such an arrogant motherfucker that, like, he truly believes that, like, he's the one moving the needle in that situation, you know?
Like, yeah, the belief.
At one point he's like, you know, Obama said that politics is like playing football.
You know, it's a game of, you're bumping heads and bumping heads and you're making no progress and then for a split second a hole opens up and you have to...
He keeps saying, you have to find the hole.
I'm looking for that hole.
I'm dying laughing, of course.
Bill needs to stop saying that.
It really reminds me of, like, on Arrested Development, almost every single line of dialogue David Cross had on this show, where he's like, I really blew myself today.
And he's, like, trying out for the Blue Man Group.
He equates himself to...
Like, Congress trying to pass bills.
And he's like, that's what I'm doing.
I'm just looking for the hole.
I'm the same.
It's like, you don't do that.
You're not a politician.
This is crazy.
This is the most arrogant shit I've ever heard.
That's incredible.
I apologize for talking like someone who is under 30 and on Twitch all the time, but he crashes out over the course of this interview.
He really, at one point...
One of the hosts tries to agree with him while he's talking, and he yells at him for interrupting him.
These guys are supposed to be his friends!
That tracks.
I completely believe that.
I will say one of the very obvious similarities between our respective subjects is they're both sniveling little shits who are willing to cozy up to fascists, basically.
That's both what we're dealing with.
Yeah, but it's like, one of them...
Bill Maher doesn't need to.
Bill Maher doesn't need the money.
Bill Maher is set for life.
Bill Maher is essentially set at HBO for life.
The only Emmy he's ever won was because he was an EP on Vice.
He's active in...
He's been an EP on stuff, which is one of those jobs where it's like...
You know, you go into the meeting or your production company produces it.
You don't really have anything to do with it.
You just put your name on it and that establishes credibility.
That's like all these NBA stars who start production companies.
It's like, oh yeah, I'm sure Steph Curry is going to be real active in the development of this drama on stars.
But he said, Russell Brand now, like, Russell Brand very much reminds me of, it's like, oh, this is like...
This is like one of the many animals that live in my backyard when one of the coyotes comes down from the hills looking for a meal.
Like, this is a man...
Bill Maher does it because he thinks he should have everything and he thinks he's the greatest at everything.
And Russell Brand, it's like, this is an animal desperate for survival at this point.
He is, like, just trying to find any angle to keep going here and, like, continue to be rich and famous.
And at this point, I imagine he's now shifted over to staying out of prison in the UK.
Yes, pretty much.
That's become an immediate priority, yes.
Yeah, yeah, he's trying to avoid extradition, potentially.
He's claimed he's going to comply with, like, he's supposed to be in court in a couple of weeks, but yeah, I'll believe it when I see it.
I'll put it that way.
I'm still very 50-50 on whether he's actually going to go with it.
Well, when has he been dishonest in the past?
Exactly. He just doesn't seem like a liar to me.
He's a truth teller.
That's what he is.
So we're going to go from the terrible to the terrible here because, as you know, we are here to cover Russell's most recent conversation with Jordan Peterson from around a month ago.
And this time you have very much not seen any of the clips, which...
Is smart, because, like, you're limiting the amount of psychic damage that can be caused, but at the same time, you're about to be viscerally confronted by a conversation between two of the most profoundly insipid pseudo-intellectuals in the Western world.
So, um, it's gonna be fun for me, is what I'm saying.
Imagine if you're a professor, imagine you graduate from the University of Toronto with a degree in psychology, and then ten years later, you're like, that was my professor.
Is it unethical for me to practice?
Do I know how to do psychology?
Yeah, do I need to go back again?
Do I need to go to a different university?
What did I learn here from this man?
Supposedly his lectures were very, like...
Controversial and information-lite is what I've heard.
And I'm like, yeah, that tracks.
That completely makes sense.
Also, it is appropriate that, by the way, that a Canadian and a British person will be covering a Canadian and a British person in conversation.
We're very similar in our own ways.
We've got a lot in common with these two, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, and we will be somewhat focused on American politics.
So, like, all four of us are outsiders to a degree.
But you at least live there, so that's something.
Now, I should clarify here, Russell and Jordan Peterson have been in something of a conversation since 2018.
That's the first time they properly sat down and had a conversation, and that was back when Russell was still, you know, quote-unquote, of the left.
And we're up to part, what, seven or eight of their chat, I think?
What? Yeah, they've been going a while back and forth, and they're trying to continue the same conversation as well.
Which is incredible.
This is my fourth time covering them, so I'm trying to track the threads that are available.
For anyone who missed the first few installments, let me give you the CliffsNotes.
From my experience, we've got misogyny, Christian zealotry, random pop culture references, some nonsense about archetypes, Jordan Peterson being obsessed with the movie Cabaret, casual racism, and the fact that Jordan Peterson seems to barely know anything.
Even about the things he's supposed to know things about.
Like, I'm a complete layperson, and I have had to correct him on what a postmodernist is and what a Marxist is, for instance.
Considering that's all this guy talks about, I'm like, dude, we need to work on some basic definitions here and then move forward.
Yeah, I'm assuming all those things you listed, I'm assuming they're in favor of all of them.
That was their general states on all those topics.
Yes, yeah, well, loves misogyny, loves casual racism, so, I mean, loves cabaret.
Sure, of all the things you listed, that one, I think, is obviously the most fair.
Yeah, I think he particularly likes the Nazis in that one.
I think that's the actual situation.
Yeah, yeah.
No, he spent a full, like, 10-15 minutes trying to dissect that with Russell in the last chat.
I'm like, what is happening?
Now, Will, in this conversation, you do get a small amount of mercy, which is that they're having this conversation in person, because if it's ever a digital conversation they're having, on Zoom or whatever, they do the Zoom equivalent of sending 10-minute voice notes back and forth,
and then expect people to watch it.
So, like, they will just monologue and take turns monologuing.
Does Jordan Peterson also have his camera set up in a way where it's...
He's like...
He's up, like, way, way too high and it's shooting up at him and he looks, like, insane.
I go up higher, but I have a roof in front of me because I'm actually in a closet.
What I call my office is a closet.
Like, that's the angle I imagine.
I imagine it looking like this, where his laptop is just tilted way back and he's, like, looking down at it.
He's done one of those, and then he had one that was much more professionally shot, where it was just like him.
Imagine the void in The Matrix, where it's all just blanket white.
Just him on a chair in one of his crazy suits, just sat there in the void, like, hmm.
What is happening?
I forgot he dresses like...
I can't remember his name.
There's this guy here, he did infomercials during the 90s, where he'd be like...
Order my book, which shows you how to get free money from the government!
Oh, Matthew Lesko, and he wore a suit covered in either dollar signs or...
Like, he dressed like the Riddler.
And now Jordan Peterson dresses like Matthew Lesko.
It's like, the Riddler's here, Jordan Peterson's here, and Lesko is the one in between them connecting their sense of style.
I can't get over his outfits now.
He's got the Riddler look, and he's also got the Two-Face thing going on, you know, where he's almost like the Harlequin, you know, that situation.
And I'm like, what is happening?
I will say, I'll reveal the look of the day.
It is fairly standard, to be fair.
He's just, you know, kind of brown suit.
He's got incredibly long brown socks on.
I've never seen socks this long in my life.
Because he has to have one leg over the other at all times, and he frequently will switch.
And he's just got the longest socks that I've ever seen in my life.
But yeah, fairly standard suit for the day.
And Russell is looking pretty normal.
You know, shirt buttons.
We're down to like five that are open.
What the hell?
And also, why is it lit?
It looks like it's only backlit.
Like they're only using the natural light from the windows behind them.
Yeah, it does look like that.
It's a weird little kind of office space.
I don't know if this is his usual kind of thing.
And this is for the Daily Wire, obviously.
Well, they're doing great right now.
They're financially doing really, really, really well.
No concerns whatsoever.
Yeah, yeah.
Always great when you fire your chief content officer because he destroyed your budget making his dream project of adapting a series of Arthurian novels for your boutique conservative TV network that normally just runs movies that cost like $25 to make.
Yeah, yeah, and inevitably stars Gina Carano.
It's a remarkable place.
And yeah, I mean, I can see why Jordan Peterson feels at home there, that's for sure.
In any case, let's get into the first clip here.
And I've cut out Jordan Peterson's rambling solo introduction of the thing, because he spends five minutes trying to describe what this conversation is.
And honestly, I understand why he struggled.
It's... This is not going to be easy.
And we get to what is the very opening of the actual interview.
And I promise I haven't edited it.
This is just how the interview begins.
How's this Christianity thing working out for you?
It's a powerful transforming agent.
It's beautiful to moment to moment know that if he is the creator of all things, then his DNA is present in every moment.
In every moment.
The continual renewal of the mind that it talks of in Romans seems comparable at least to ideologies that I'm somewhat more familiar with.
Corral together loosely under the term New Age.
Stay continually present in the moment.
Die unto yourself.
Allow yourself to die, as it says in Galatians.
Be born again, moment to moment.
Now as we enter this period of...
Wild and giddying flux, Jordan.
It seems that a route to eternity is a valuable escape hatch to have identified.
So how it feels...
I'm reading Genesis right now.
Have you read it?
Have you done a course on it?
He's still at the start.
Even when you're reading about Sodom and Lot...
And reading about like a culture of gang rape that precedes the storm of fire.
It feels like, yeah, I'm reading that, then I'm like, you know, sort of scrolling on X and looking at the world and the hills are an inferno and Britain is beset with a rape.
Gang crisis that appears to be being handled in an unusual way bureaucratically.
The pillars and institutions are quaking and shaking.
Too much intersection, inappropriateness section between the judiciary, the media and the government.
Not enough proper coordination and interconnection and communication between those same institutions.
Because I suppose you want...
Coordination, but what you don't want is conspiracy.
You want agreement in principle, which is very different than conscious and, what would you say, incentivized coordination.
Okay. So, firstly, that's a taste of how this conversation's gonna go.
He's so bad at being a Christian.
That is just not how...
I don't care what...
Christians don't talk like that.
I've been around them my whole life.
I grew up Catholic.
I'm now in a country where there are so many weird strains of Protestantism in America.
You can tell it's not real because he still just talks like a New Age guy.
That is just New Age shit, the way he talks.
Also, we all know Christ didn't create anything.
Christ is the Son of God.
And if you want to try to get into semantics, oh, well, he's still the Son of God, but he's still a form of God.
Right. But there's still God, the form of God, the Father.
People don't think of Christ.
Christ is not the creator here.
He is, like all of us, a creation of the creator.
So, like, fundamentally...
I don't think he fully wraps his head around what he's supposed to be saying.
He's got to lose those bracelets.
The dual chunky wooden bead bracelets, it's impossible to wear those and come off like a Christian.
It's impossible to wear those and come off like a Christian.
That is not Christian paraphernalia.
He could do the big chunky leather ones if he wants.
Some young Christian guys will wear those.
The big wooden beads?
Nope. That is not Christian stuff.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
He'll wear a crucifix.
A lot of his audience have suggested that he might want to try cutting his hair and shaving his beard as well, which is really funny to me.
I'm like, that's his whole look!
I don't want to know.
I don't want to know.
I don't want to know what's going on under there.
Please don't do that, Russell.
The only pictures available of him without those things are from when he was like 15, you know?
None of us want to experience him without them.
Yeah, so I should apologize because we're going to have a few longer clips because it takes these guys fucking ages to say anything, as you have experienced.
It just, like, we're gonna be dealing with less than a third of the thing in total, but, like, I can promise it will be arduous enough, because Russell and Jordan are two of the most pretentious people on the planet who will at any opportunity use 15 words where they could have used one.
So that's just what we're dealing with.
And I will say, like, because it's all so fucking long and verbose, if you're not paying close attention, it does a terrific job of covering up just how profoundly dumb their conversation is.
Because they use so many words, you know, if you just get lost in that, you can be like, oh, this sounds intelligent.
No, no, it's preposterous.
That might be you being charitable, because I have to say, I think it sounds stupid to anybody who is even having my attention.
Unless they're the classic dumb guy who thinks they're smart.
I'm trying to see what it is that the people in the comment sections are trying to see, where they're like, oh my god, these two are geniuses.
I love their energy when they get together.
And I'm like, what?
I'm trying to figure that out.
I want to see the world through their eyes.
It sounds much more pleasant to me.
I'm like, yeah, give me that shit.
I'd love to see life like you do.
That sounds fantastic.
Because this is abysmal.
So, what I should mention is that this conversation was recorded before the criminal charges against Russell were pressed, but he is still to this very day claiming that there's too much inappropriate intersection between the judiciary media and government in the UK, and still implying that it's a conspiracy theory to take him down because he speaks so much truth to power.
Since the charges, he's been on a bit of a mission to undermine the UK government, funnily enough.
He's like, I'm going to comply with everything.
Also, the judicial system in the UK is corrupt.
So, you're like, well, which is it?
It's like this classic thing, like what I was talking about with Bill Maher.
It's like fundamentally at the end of the day, nobody cares, man.
Nobody's trying to take you down because nobody cares.
You're not a threat to like, you're a part of this ecosystem.
But the second you go away, it's like the...
2014 San Antonio Spurs.
It's just like next man up.
One guy gets injured, next guy off the bench is going to get slotted right into that slot.
Yeah, it's whack-a-mole.
It's terrorist cells, you know?
It's the same thing.
Like, yeah, you're just going to get a different shithead showing up.
You know?
I will say, I have a loose interest and quiet fascination with Dan Bongino because I fundamentally don't understand the appeal in...
And I will say, the guy that has tried to replace Dan Bongino on Rumble, failing dramatically, and it is very fun to watch.
It's this random guy called Vince, and I'm like, oh, this is going terribly.
Imagine being unable...
You can't fill the shoes of Dan Bongino.
Those are like a child size 4 shoes, and you're like, these are massive on my feet.
I can't do this.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
The guy just isn't hitting any of the same, like, archetype as Dan Bongio.
Like, this guy, Vince, just doesn't have the same, like, masculine energy.
He's just mostly kind of whining.
You're like, nah, this isn't gonna go well.
Yeah. That's a line they pretty much all struggle with, that line.
And some of them handle it better than others.
Because fundamentally, at the end of the day, they're just fucking whining.
Like, that is all they're doing, is just sitting there whining.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly.
Their whole thing is oppositional.
Without that opposition, they're fucked.
So, to address what they said at the end, they're like, Russell has curiously never delineated what the difference is supposed to be between coordination and conspiracy when it comes to all of these things interacting, and how what's happening to him is a conspiracy.
Like, the best he's done is like, well, I started saying these things about the government and Big Pharma, and suddenly these allegations came out!
It's like, nah, dude, the allegations came out because of the evidence.
The lots of evidence against you.
That's why that happened.
Yeah, just...
Well, you're the first, like, jumping on that bandwagon so late of, like, Big Pharma and other these, like, sort of jumping onto his grift, like, as late as he did, and then being like, they're trying to take me down because I speak truth to power.
It's like, buddy, this is not me.
No, no, not at all.
Not at all.
And he also said that basically that Christianity is apparently an escape hatch to eternity for him.
And I'm like...
Yeah, that tracks for you.
If anyone needs an escape hatch from something, it's Russell Brand.
Yeah, the escape hatch stuff is a bizarre analogy as to referring to what is supposed to be like an eternal paradise as an escape hatch from...
It sounds like something who is having a mental health episode and is on the verge of hurting themselves.
It sounds like something they'd say.
Not a guy who is like, I love Christianity.
It's an escape hatch into the eternal.
And it's like, uh-oh.
What do you mean?
Yeah, no one who needs an escape hatch is in a happy situation, I think that's fair to say.
Yeah, you'd refer to it as like a, you know, an elevator.
You'd use some sort of other reference as opposed to, you know, it's the gun you pull out at the last minute and kill a guy with into eternity.
I don't think you're in a great place, man.
Yeah, yeah.
And I should also say that this whole rape gang crisis in the UK thing is something that Russell won't shut up about at the moment.
Again, as part of the project to undermine the UK government and judiciary.
He keeps claiming that there's been no inquiry into rape gangs in the UK, whereas actually one finished in 2022, albeit with an even broader scope than just that.
And the findings of it are still in the process of being implemented.
So he's full of nonsense there.
But crucially, Russell knows what he's doing.
By bringing that subject to Jordan Peterson's channel.
Because, like, the whole rape gang narrative is one heavily leaned into by the likes of Tommy Robinson, along with the claim that it's all Muslim migrants that are doing it.
And I can assure you there are plenty of white Christian men engaging in that behavior.
Nonetheless, it fits into the racist narrative, so Tommy Robinson is going to spout it.
And where does he go to do that?
Well, last year, about a couple of weeks before he helped spark literal race riots in the UK, Tommy Robinson spent an hour and a half in conversation with Jordan Peterson and his wife Tammy, making all sorts of grand claims about what life is like in the UK and telling a lot of lies about migrants.
Jordan Peterson is firmly on the side of Tommy Robinson and believes he's been wrongly imprisoned, and so Russell knows he's preaching to the choir when he's bringing up that particular subject, right?
Wrongly imprisoned?
Like, you know, at least like classical fascists.
We're like, yes, I broke the law because the laws are unjust.
Whereas these guys are like, I didn't do anything wrong.
It's like, man, it's on tape.
You started and participated in a race riot.
This is like his third time in prison as well.
I'm like, nah, sorry, dude.
You can't use this argument anymore.
You're a repeat offender.
Also, he keeps trying to record podcasts from his prison cell, which is funny.
He has succeeded a couple of times.
That's the fucked up thing.
Like, you'd be like, interview with Tommy Robinson?
I'm like, he's fucking in prison.
How is this happening?
Yeah, it's got the prison a bit perplexed.
And yeah, I also hope that I don't need to say this to any listener of this specific show, but if you're looking at the world through the lens of what's being shown to you on X...
Stop doing that.
You're going to feel the way Russell Brand does about the world.
You're going to feel like you need an escape hatch.
Yeah, exactly.
Like, delete the neo-Nazi hellscape from your phone.
Go outside and touch some grass.
Because otherwise you will look at the world thinking it's the end times.
The number of times I've seen somebody post something like...
As a white supremacist, I'm offended by this.
It is just like a racist hangout now.
It's truly remarkable.
It's incredible.
I sign in every now and then to check up on Russell's shit and his beef with David Icke and whatever else.
Wow, okay.
David Icke is coming on the show soon.
David Icke is coming on Russell's show soon, apparently.
And I'm like, oh, he's going to eat him alive.
He's terrible, but I'm going to enjoy that.
It's nice when men can work out their differences, you know?
Yeah, no, Red Dead fucking hates Russell.
But yeah, I sign in every now and then.
And every single time, right?
The only people that I'm following on there are like, you know, left-wing kind of commentator people and whatever.
And yet every single time I will be...
The first thing I see will either be a tweet from Elon Musk, or it'll be some kind of racist meme, or it'll be porn, or it'll be like something fucking gore related.
Like, that's what I get, no matter what.
Because that's just what's forced upon you.
And I'm just like, this is hell.
Why does anyone come here?
This is terrible.
This is objectively terrible.
Yeah, it has no value.
It's worth nothing.
No, I really don't understand it.
And I'm like, yeah, no wonder you're all going fucking nuts.
Like, I'm literally seeing, like, Nazi memes and shit on there.
I'm like, yeah, if you're spending all day just drinking that in, like, yeah, that's gonna get to you eventually.
That's gonna come for you.
Yeah, it's bad.
Quite bad.
Yeah, it's not great.
That is the assessment of this show.
It's not great.
Now... I've been calling Russell out for a little while because he's long claimed to be anti-globalist, right?
And yet, he is vocally supportive of Elon Musk and of Donald Trump's plans to take over various portions of the planet.
And in this next clip, he has a handy explanation for that.
Seek thee first the kingdom of God.
Seek thee first the kingdom of God.
And I'm thinking, I'm in a conversation right now with Jordan Peterson.
How do I...
Orient myself in this moment, in this situation.
Now, it feels like amidst the flux that we've earlier addressed, or at least alluded to, it appears...
That much of what you came to represent as you emerged in public life has proven to be true.
It's not like the culture has just shifted.
We aren't going to see so many pronouns in the bios.
We're not going to see an escalation in gender-approving surgery.
Hopefully that won't be concomitant with a lack of compassion for people, some people that are different and do identify differently.
Indeed, one of the things I most...
What I'm most hopeful about Jordan is that with the transitions of power that are taking place and the way that it appears to be...
Bleeding or at least influencing outside of its political jurisdiction.
We're seeing how American power, and in particular the influence of Elon Musk, which is a truly global power.
And now, when I said globalism 18 months ago, I meant something different to what I might mean when I say globalism now.
Oh, I see.
It appears that Elon Musk in a matter of posts can disrupt, elevate new potential kings, desiccate them and remove them in a matter of moments.
And it's interesting to see how the old world will reorder itself on the basis
Okay, so he's a globalist, but he's a different type of globalist, and that makes it different.
When Elon Musk can disrupt, elevate new potential kings and desiccate and remove them in a matter of moments, that's all right, is it?
Elon Musk is global power, apparently, and that's just fine and dandy.
I'm gonna say, if you had a problem with globalists previously, but now you're like, but I'm okay with white South African globalists.
That, to me, is a little alarming.
I'm okay with apartheid globalists.
Now, that's a different situation.
I'm a little troubled by which globalists you were referring to the first time.
What maybe you meant by globalists that first time.
The ones you approved of are in the vein of Elon Musk.
Yeah, he takes issue with, like, Klaus Schwab and George Soros and Bill Gates, but Elon Musk, he's like, yeah, that's my guy.
You know, like, wait, what?
I'm going to keep track of how many times he says flux.
I'm curious if he's going to keep hammering flux.
Yeah, it comes back.
It does come back.
I'm not going to lie to you.
Yeah, yeah.
Also, this notion that what Jordan Peterson came to represent has proven true.
Like, the guy is part of a years-long project of bigotry and eroding human rights while promoting aggressive free market capitalism, and him and the alt-right are in general the loudest voices in media.
Like, that wasn't prescience, that was...
Yeah, like, he, yeah, it's like, it was a part of a trend that was already ongoing.
Like, I guess, I suppose congratulations for, like, hopping on that train.
I am always irritated by the, like, of course we must have compassion.
It's like...
Listen, it is not the 2000s.
It is not the 2010s.
You don't have to do this anymore.
You can just say the bigotry.
In fact, your fans would prefer it if you just said the bigotry.
Like, nobody's fooled.
Nobody likes it.
Nobody's soothed.
Nobody believes you.
Like, enough with this.
Genuinely, I have just done an episode on how hard Russell is leaning into anti-trans bigotry, so you can pretty much ignore literally anything he says about being compassionate towards those who are different.
He just recently claimed that trans people are basically part of a secular, satanic, globalist agenda designed to confuse and distract everyone, whilst also arguing that sex is binary as well, and supporting the Supreme Court ruling in the UK.
And you're like, ah, fuck you.
Just fuck you.
Like, I guess, I don't know.
Maybe it's an attempt at, like, you know, planning for the future of being like, well, maybe I can hop back on.
I can get a few of, you know, I can get a few, like, normal people to be my fans again somewhere down the road.
But it just is, like, it's so unnecessary, you know?
We just, we don't, nobody, nobody falls for it.
Your fans don't like it.
Like, regular compassionate people aren't fooled by it.
Like, come on.
It's, you know, the most obnoxious part.
It's not the most immoral part, but it is the part that I find just generally the most immediately annoying, where it's like, stop, don't lie to me.
Come on.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, and I will say from, like, someone who's, you know, I keep an eye on, like, the live chats and everything when I'm watching this bullshit, if I manage to catch it at the right time, and, like, the moments I've seen his audience the happiest are when he's, like, outwardly saying, like,
oh, well, the Bible says gay people are bad, or, like, making fun of the Jews, or if he's saying anything negative about trans people, his audience are like, yeah, this is the shit!
I'm like, okay, yeah.
That's where we're at.
You know, why are you trying to fight it, Russell?
You've come this far, you know?
The middle is gone.
Like, the cultural middle has really been eradicated.
What these people would consider the cultural middle is so, like, you can just take the mask off.
The mask is up on top of your head anyway.
Everybody can just see your face.
Like, the mask is functionally off anyway.
It's all these, you know, listen, I'm not transphobic.
It's a thing I used to joke about where people would be like, when they'd be like, I'm not homophobic, I just think marriage should stay between a man and a woman.
And it always, to me, was like saying, listen, just because I own a house doesn't make me some kind of homeowner, okay?
And I resent you accusing me of that.
It's like, you can't be the thing.
Hey, just because I believe in the divinity of Christ doesn't make me some sort of Christian.
That's the most important thing, man.
That's the key thing there.
I don't know why you're doing this.
Yep, yep.
It's a fucking waste of everybody's time and very annoying for literally everyone involved.
Although we know they love talking, so maybe that's why he does it.
He's like, ooh, a chance at more words.
If he thinks of words, he must immediately verbalize them.
That's the rule.
So now from here, we eventually come to Jordan Peterson's assessment of what government should be.
And do bear in mind, both of these individuals are ardent supporters of Donald Trump.
And the reason that I feel that Christianity is so significant is because it's significant with regards to every single issue.
But now that we don't have, as we did with the previous project, We're not going to be altering language wildly and radically.
We're not at war with nature and old taxonomies.
We're not seeking to annihilate the principle of God that we may lay claim to his kingdom.
I wonder how these new forms of government may evolve and unfold, and I wonder how these new forms of nationalism might develop.
But for this ARC enterprise, we've been trying to wrestle exactly with that issue.
And I think your comments about Elon, let's say, as a globalist force that isn't exactly akin to the previous globalist force is like, well, maybe we've tried to distinguish this technically in our discussions at ARC.
So here's some principles.
Tell me what you think about them.
Policy that requires force and fear.
Is indicative of it's at least suboptimal and it's probably tyrannical.
So that one of the ways you determine whether a policy is acceptable is whether or not it's invitational.
Right? And so it'd be like I make you an offer and hopefully you're on board voluntarily, which would make you a much more efficient participant as well.
And even if you're not fully enthusiastic about it, you can't think of a better alternative that you would lay claim to.
Right? So it's like you can imagine if we're going to negotiate reasonably, we might say, well, We're going to be duty-bound to accept the best offer we can conceive of, right?
I mean, hopefully it'll be one that also fills you with enthusiasm, but in the absence of that, at least you won't be able to think of a better alternative.
So, no power, no force, no fear, right?
And then, the other thing that we've toyed with, let's say, or played with, is the idea that not only does the vision of the future have to be invitational, there has to be an element of play about it, because I studied play fairly deeply neurophysiologically,
and play is a really interesting motivational state because it's very fragile.
It can be disrupted by almost any other motivational state.
So the sense of play, which is like direction with variability, right?
Because that's play, is direction with variability.
That only emerges when the situation, say, of communication and cooperation is being optimized.
So then you might say another way that you can tell if the adventure is proceeding well is that if everybody engaged in it can engage in a sense of play.
And I like the play idea, partly because it's voluntary, obviously, but also because play implies a fair bit of tolerance for, you know, for deviation along the path.
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
The vicissitude.
These men must take their pills.
They have to start taking their pills in the morning.
They must take medication so that they can stay focused.
Sincerely, are people entertained by this?
Or do they just watch it as essentially a form of virtue signaling to be like, I'm on the same side as these guys, so I will support them.
Who can sit through that and be like, great.
I genuinely don't.
Like, there's a full hour and fifteen of this conversation, right?
That's... And you're just like, how?
Why? Like, I had to...
Obviously, I had to sit through it, but, you know, not out of enjoyment.
That's not why I'm here.
An hour and fourteen?
They don't say anything.
Like, they're not...
This, like...
Philosophical psychology shit he does.
Like, you know, the state of play, and we think of it as negotiating, and we're sort of duty-bound to take the best possible offer.
It's like, you're not talking about anything real.
You're creating all of these things.
It's a negotiation, and let's say we're duty-bound to take the best possible offer.
What do you mean?
What do you mean you're duty-bound?
What does this have to do with, like, you started off talking about Elon Musk, and then you've created some sort of idea of negotiation where it's like, well, both participants are duty-bound to take the best possible offer.
Speaking of...
People in a way that they don't exist, as if people do not have individual motivations, multiple motives, as if, you know, we're all robots haggling over nine apples.
And it's like, of course the solution is we each get four apples and you split the fifth one in half.
Like, it's so divorced from reality, where we are, what we are, where we live.
Like, I'm...
I have been put into some sort of bizarre probe and I have been launched interdimensionally and now I am floating through goo where two guys are talking literally like using words in a way that technically makes sense as sentences but don't are incomprehensible I have to assume even to themselves like What do they think they're talking about?
You do have to wonder what degree of comprehension there is in this conversation between the two of them.
How much of the other one is being understood?
I would be fascinated to know.
Because there is a little bit of talking past each other.
That has been a consistent theme of these little chats that they like to have.
And to address their points, I have to ask, as I'm not over there, do things feel particularly playful?
That doesn't sound playful.
for me what struck me is the idea of course the best systems are voluntary it's not you're not being done at force what is a less
What government in the history of the United States has been more forceful?
Maybe the Lincoln government during the Civil War?
Then you're kind of forcing people back into the Republic.
Literally raised an army.
Yeah, yeah.
Like, yeah, he said, like, policy requiring force and fear is tyrannical, and so there should be no power, no force, no fear, and everything should be invitational.
And again, like, these guys are big fucking Trump supporters, you know, and so I'm like...
What about this has been invitational to anyone?
Masked ICE agents are kidnapping 20-year-olds off the street and throwing them into unmarked vans and driving away with them and then deporting them to Louisiana on the other side of the country to go through because they have a friendlier judge there.
It's like there is almost nothing.
There is almost nothing you participate in American society.
You are forced to do almost everything you do in this country, you do because you have to.
even down to like, you have to have a job.
Like, you have to pay for health insurance.
You have to at this point, like, almost the entire country, you essentially have to have a car.
Yes. Nothing is participatory.
You can't even get a job if you don't go to college.
You almost assuredly can't get a good job if you don't go to college at this point.
You have to participate in secondary education.
This is one of the least...
You know, you could go to like China or, you know, there are like, you know, certainly huge swaths of classes in, you know, the lower class in particularly like East Asian countries where they are essentially, you know, forced to do like work in sweatshops and do essentially slave labor because like there's no other opportunities for them.
And it's like.
These guys are like, I love the way American society is voluntarily heading in that direction.
It's... Like, I hate pointing out hypocrisy.
I hate doing the hypocrisy thing still.
This isn't even hypocrisy.
It is so fundamentally wrong at its very core premise.
I cannot believe I am...
These guys live in a room...
On the moon.
Not even our moon.
They live on Titan in this room, and they are just imagining a world that takes place.
They live in the white void of the Matrix.
That's where they live.
And as for Russell, like at the top there he said Christianity, and he's meaning within the Trump administration, through Christianity there won't be an attempt to control ideological life through politics, there won't be an altering of language, and we won't be at war with nature.
And, like, in case I need to state the obvious for anyone, MAGA and Baja are inherently ideological in their nature and aims.
And within all of this, like, yeah, I do have to ask myself whether these two men are engaging with reality in literally any way, or if they're just playing around with what they like to think is happening in the United States.
Like, both of these perspectives are so fundamentally divorced from any concept of what the Trump administration is and is doing.
It is outstanding.
But then you've got to think, like, These are two incredibly wealthy white men who don't have to engage with any version of what the rest of us do.
And not at war with nature.
Like... They're talking about now getting rid of the Endangered Species Act in this country.
And again, as a proud Southern Californian, there is nothing I am more thrilled about than the rebirth and reintroduction of the California condor back into...
It's in nature, like in the wild.
I think there were seven left.
They caught them.
They very carefully bred them.
And it's at a point now where there are...
They just reintroduced the very first California condor into the Oregon coast.
Like, it is this incredible success story of saving from literally the brink of destruction this incredible, unique animal in America, like an incredibly American animal.
It's the largest North American bird.
It's this incredible, hideous, enormous vulture.
It's this wild success.
And they're like, we gotta get rid of that.
We have to drill for oil everywhere.
No lands can be...
We have to sell off every bit of protected land.
Like, this administration is fundamentally at war with the very idea of nature.
They're at war with the very idea of being like a human being.
Like, they are not of this planet.
They act the way aliens would act.
They're like a bunch of galactuses just coming here to drain the world of its life, and then it will explode and die.
Yeah, yeah.
Feels real invitational.
That's how I'm feeling.
I love to take part in the voluntary heat death of the world I live in.
Yeah, I get a real sense of play from that.
And then, to make things worse, like, they're having this conversation as though they know things and that other people should listen to it.
I'm like, what?
How the fuck did we end up here?
And why are their chairs so little?
Why do they have such little chairs?
What the fuck, man?
Little chairs and long socks.
What is this show?
This is designed to break your brain so that you will just accept whatever.
This is the most 1984 shit ever, where they're saying things that are the exact opposite of reality.
In addition to that, you look and you're like, I guess chairs are supposed to be that small?
Everything about this is attacking my core notions of what is real, and I refuse to let them in.
There's supposed to be a large sculpture on the mantelpiece of what looks like an ear, I think.
I'm not sure.
What? What the fuck?
Yeah. Look, it's fine to have abstract art normally, but when everything else is happening, I'm like, that's another weapon.
That's another knife in their belt that they are attempting to kill my idea of what is real with.
Yeah, the outline of an ear is a sculpture on the mantle and it is like, everything's white and it is off-white.
Like, that's...
It's the only thing on the mantle that is off-white like that.
It is...
Al, you have been sent from the UK to kill me.
Oh, see, see, it had to be you, Will, because, like, I know you're the only one who can tolerate this shit.
Like, you built up such a tolerance with Bill.
I'm like, all right.
You couldn't get in contact with the guys from Knowledge Fight or something?
You couldn't find a way to contact them?
Have them do this?
They're really fucked up.
Well, I think they suffer enough, let's be honest.
I'm sure we could get a hold of somebody from QAnon Anonymous.
Yeah, I could call Annie.
Annie, come back.
Come back and deal with Geordie Peterson.
She researches incels.
Yeah, I'm sure she's a big fan of Geordie Peterson.
Oh, God.
Right, so...
I'm so hot all of a sudden.
I know.
So from here, Russell makes an interesting comparison, one that I largely agree with.
But he then proceeds to explain how actually the comparison doesn't apply.
Now, isn't it interesting to see that tool of play wielded now by the truly powerful, by Trump and Musk?
It'll be interesting because, you know...
Their detractors continue.
Like, you know, you might see a late night talk show host saying, see, I told you, I told you, they're going to take over Canada.
What's Elon Musk doing meddling in British politics?
But regardless of the, again, as a Christian, regardless of the interview, you know, Trump's not God.
Musk's not God.
They're all human beings.
They're going to come and go.
And perhaps I've been thinking this about Elon Musk somewhat lately.
Is there a point?
Where order of magnitude alters essence, i.e., is not Musk just a reiteration of Murdoch?
Because, you know, Tony Blair used to kowtow, bend the knee, go on holiday to ensure that Murdoch would support his new Labour movement.
It was understood that Thatcher required Murdoch.
It was understood that if Murdoch unleashed an ocean of ink...
Against an opposition party, the government would remain in power.
Now, Murdoch, he still has some power across the anglophonic world, and I don't know what Murdoch's power is like now, but what I know is that Elon Musk is like a version of a media magnate, at least when it comes to the social media aspect of his vast enterprises.
But when it becomes not a 20-minute perusal of some rag, but an ever-present mirror reflecting back and...
Ongoing conversation.
The ability to manoeuvre and censor that, as well as the manner in which he's conducting that conversation, again, not the sort of what would appear to be, and perhaps I'm being naive, the economically led kind of, I imagine, Dow Jones-watching sort of traditional entrenched mentality of Digger,
for that was the nickname, wasn't it, of Murdoch.
You now see this sort of...
Perhaps, again, it's the technology that leads, because the technology now, diffuse...
Instant. Instantaneous systems taking place in the present.
Because our systems for understanding God were mechanical in the industrial age.
They were agricultural at the advent of that significant seismic shift in our kind's Weltanschauung.
So now, now that we have this instantaneous omnipresent potentiality...
Maybe everything's changing.
So in short, what I'm saying is, is what's happening now entirely unique because it is temporal, because of the temporal component, because of this instantaneous immersive ability to alter conversation?
Maybe it no longer is even paradigmatically the same, Jordan.
Well, that was the short version.
You know what he sounds like?
He sounds like...
David Brent, in the first episode of The Office, when he's doing the job interview with the guy, and it's just this single on him, and he's like, you, me, vis-a-vis, RE, warehouse manager, personal friend of mine, I'll get you a job.
Like, he, he...
He's talking like he is trying to write advertising slogans for a product nobody's seen and nobody knows anything about.
Yeah, he lost me at Veltenschong, I'm not going to lie.
I was like, nope, that's across the Rubicon.
That's a bridge too far, buddy.
In short, in short, I, you know.
I can accept a lot, but when this guy goes in short, Amin is not short.
Amin just continues on.
It's nowhere near short.
So basically, Elon Musk is like Rupert Murdoch, except it's different because it's social media and it's not traditional media and therefore much pervasive and constant.
And I'm like...
Whether it's paradigmatically the same or not, it's definitely worse.
Like, the radicalization of people through social media can happen so much quicker and in a much more subtle way compared to traditional media.
Plus, it's free!
There's not even a paywall to indoctrination.
You just need to create an X account and Elon Musk's tweets are pushed to your feed no matter what.
It's demonstrably worse and almost completely unregulated compared to traditional media.
And you have immediate access through your phone.
It's posted immediately, and you can see it immediately no matter where you are, other than a few dark spots for mobile.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Like, the thing that we are blessed with, in reality, is that Elon Musk is both an absolute fucking moron and a pathetic loser.
So he routinely shoots himself in the foot, usually out of his own insecurity.
Whereas, like, imagine a world where someone competent and evil like Rupert Murdoch owned X. We would be orders of magnitude more fucked as a society, most likely in ways we wouldn't even be able to notice because of that competence.
What does he mean we used to understand God through a concept of, like, what, mechanical or industrial?
Yeah, yeah, I guess that's to do with, like, I don't know, the fucking printing press?
In the old days we had robot God, and now we have cybernetic God.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Like, I think it's, you know, the evolution of, like, how...
How religiosity is consumed, I guess, through, like, you know, compared to, like, a traditional agricultural, you know, where you'd have a priest or whatever, and then, like, you know, the printing press and the Bible.
And so, like, yes, that was his very long-winded way of fucking saying, like, hey, technology's moved on, hasn't it?
Like, that was...
You know, we used to, you know, with analog God, you had to fucking turn the crank yourself, and you could...
Your wrist will get sore?
No, you just press the button.
The issue is now when your god breaks, it's way more expensive to fix because of all the electronics, but it's a lot easier to do.
What do you mean?
I don't even understand.
What do they want?
I mean, I suppose this is just sort of a victory lap.
This conversation is just like a victory lap.
I don't even know what they are seeking out of this conversation.
You said that as though you're in like a hostage situation.
You're like, what do they want?
It's like the guy taking the hostage calls you up.
And it's like, first of all, the religiosity of modern day means we can, you know, thought patterns can divide the information sphere with but a blink of the eye.
And the hostage negotiators covering it like, what's he talking about?
How do I deal with this?
Get the snipers!
Just, why don't we just gas the whole, just kill the hostages!
I can't listen to this anymore!
The hostages are just an acceptable loss at this point.
Just fill it with sarin gas.
I don't...
I can't do it.
I have to get home for dinner.
I can't keep listening to this.
This is too much.
This is too much.
Oh, dear.
Now, I am happy that you're here, Will, because it's at this moment that Jordan Peterson decides to bring up Canadian politics.
Well, you know, I just did an interview with Pierre Poliev, who's going to be the next Prime Minister of Canada in all likelihood, and he chose to...
Speak with me in depth instead of talking to the legacy media, let's say.
And it was actually rather comical from my perspective because all the legacy media outlets in Canada had to play catch-up, which I contemplated with some degree of, you know, inappropriate satisfaction.
But there's something...
So we had to talk about that.
Why would it be inappropriate?
Polyev had expressed some doubts about his performance in the discussion.
He said there were many topics he didn't get to.
And so we talked about that, and I said, well, you know, the long-form podcast format can't be manipulated a priori successfully, because if you come to the podcast with a set of talking points and you stick to your script,
you're going to get...
First of all, no one will watch you, and I've seen this with political figures.
This isn't a guess.
I know this is the case.
No one will watch you, and all the comments will be negative.
You have to come there knowing where you stand, but...
Ready to follow the thread of the conversation wherever it goes.
And to do that, you have to sacrifice the pre-planning.
Okay, so then we might look into that more deeply and we might say, well, now that video is predominating, let's say, over the written word, that might mean the re-emergence of something like spontaneity over propaganda.
Like, that could be the case because...
The new media forms do prioritize spontaneity instead of preparation.
Now, you can see that as a technological shift.
You know, back when bandwidth was staggeringly expensive and every second on broadcast media cost a fortune, you could imagine that risk minimization was the name of the game and that every second had to be controlled.
But that restriction is no longer present.
At all.
And so what that should mean, what that might mean, and that's what you're referring to, is that an entirely new form of political discourse might emerge and that people who are capable of generating a certain degree of perspicacity and wisdom spontaneously are going to be prioritized over those who...
Have a bent towards incentivized or instrumental manipulation.
I mean, Pauliev could do that, right?
He had a conversation with me.
He got no questions ahead of time, none.
And so, and he was willing to go along with that.
But it is really a completely different way of...
Now, we've been talking to Democrats, too, trying to get them on the podcast circuit.
And the resistance so far has been the utter inability and unwillingness of people on the Democrat side.
To forego their pre-planned agenda with regards to a conversation.
I will say this.
If he had just stopped after the first 20 seconds, I would have been like, oh, he's right.
You know, it's like we are entering into a media world where, you know, younger voters prioritize things like podcasts.
And if you go on a podcast, if you do an AMA on Reddit and you are trying to come in and just work in your script, people will get mad.
Like, it'll be very negatively received.
Yeah, look up Woody Harrelson Rampart, everybody.
Yeah, just all the questions like, so your dad, you know your dad killed that judge, right?
Like, your dad definitely killed that judge.
Really trying to keep this to the subject of Rampart?
Okay, do you think the corrupt officers at Rampart would have prosecuted your dad for killing that judge?
I don't got any questions about the movie.
Yeah, that's the thing.
Most of that was Jordan Peterson's long-winded, drawn-out way of saying, hey, look, media has changed because we no longer need broadcast television and people can talk to their audience directly.
Firstly, thank you for stating the obvious in the most overblown way possible.
Jesus fucking Christ.
But the bit at the end there was like, oh...
Okay, so Democrats are wrong to perhaps want to know in advance what a bad faith asshole like Jordan Peterson might ask them were they to have a conversation on camera.
You know, I'm like, yeah, if I was heading into that situation, I might want to know in dealing with this particular individual, you know?
Yeah, it's like, why would a Democrat ever give any of these guys, you know, edit control?
Like, control?
Yes. You know why?
They won't do it because they don't trust you.
Yeah. It's like Kamala Harris went on Breakfast Club, which is a really popular morning radio show.
I think it's in Los Angeles.
But it's on a hip-hop network, I'm pretty sure.
And it's young people, and especially young black people, they like...
Breakfast Club, and she went on that, and they just had a conversation.
I don't think she got the questions in advance.
I don't think they...
Because the conversation was the kind where you're like, well, this is not...
And it also is like, well, you have a Democrat on.
You're going to talk like a lunatic.
You're going to be the most hostile lunatic you possibly can to them.
You have a Republican on, and you're just going to be like, so we both agree that the neurons of the greater universe are colliding in truly transcendent ways and illuminating the path Trump took to the presidency, and they're going to go...
Oh, yes.
Like... Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, 100%.
So on a separate note, fuck Pierre Polliver, right?
That should just be the general fucking word.
Like, he made a number of claims in his chat with Jordan, including that socialist policies redistribute to the wealthy, and he can prove it.
He didn't bother to, you know, actually prove it in the moment, and Jordan Peterson never pressed him on it.
And he was like, yeah, okay.
And he also said that a rise in race-related hate crimes in Canada is actually because of wokeism.
I'm like, yeah, that's a different conversation to if you'd had a Democrat on there, I'm afraid.
That just is.
Double fuck that guy.
Yeah, I mean, he...
He's truly, truly reconciling with the bed he attempted to make for himself.
And now it's, you know, you portray yourself as the ultimate outsider, but then the guy you kind of broadly, vaguely aligned yourself with his principles.
He's become the number one enemy in the country you're trying to govern.
And now, I mean, the idea of a central banker being the outsider candidate is so insane.
And yet here we are with Mark Carney as the outsider.
A truly remarkable turn of events.
Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I will say, he picked his moment.
Like, that was the time to call a snap election.
That was like, yep, this is it.
Yeah, I mean, and it is a thing, too, where guys like that, they...
Even if it had been – you essentially have to get an election going as quickly as possible because he has to – he can't not represent a riding in parliament for long before people will start to get, like, annoyed that he is the leader of – but, yes, also, like you said,
it's like, oh, I'm going to – I'm going to do this.
And it's like Trump has been smart enough to stop talking about – I feel like they probably called him and they were like, you've got to stop talking about Canada because every single time you do it helps Mark Carney.
And now there are some polls showing a bit of a dip for the liberals, but like, I don't know, man.
It just, it feels kind of, it feels pretty likely that he's going to end up, they're going to end up with like at least a minority government, you know, governing things.
They can get probably what's left of the NDP on their side.
Yeah, Trump really fucked it for the alt-right in Canada, which has been deeply funny to watch.
It's so good.
It is...
So, so.
And also, I hate Chrystia Freeland, too.
I also hate her.
And she previously was like the chosen one to follow Justin Trudeau as the leader of that party.
And this whole turn of events, you know, just sort of ignoring what Mark Carney is already saying his plans for the country are.
I'm just like, I'm just going to enjoy the moment, you know?
I'm going to enjoy that this disgusting guy from where I grew up that I hate is going to lose after seeming like he had a...
They were going to win like...
Tony Blair labor style is what they were originally projected to do.
And then the Ukrainian nationalist in Canada, she also had her dreams scuttled.
It's just personally, not necessarily politically, but personally, it's just...
And on top of that, it came out that Mark Carney's dad was a central figure in residential schools in Canada, and he immediately came out and was like...
He immediately came out and distanced himself from that and stated unequivocally how he felt about residential schools.
And on top of everything else, he also rubs it in Christia Freeland's face by being like, hey, this lady who can't admit that her dad was a Nazi collaborator, I'm immediately going to just state who my father was, what he did, and how profoundly I disagree with it.
Oh, it was beyond satisfying.
Oh my God, it felt great.
Might have been his grandfather.
Drink it in.
We don't get many of those moments, you know, in this day and age.
Just savor it.
Savor it.
Now, I should ask, do you know many philosophy graduates or people who've studied philosophy?
So, my wife was not...
Earlier, I also want to...
I also want to state my wife does not object to me going and getting Wendy's.
She would be fine with that.
It's just sometimes she can tell I'm depressed because I'm eating that kind of shit too much.
I don't want to make her act to be some sort of controlling fool.
She has a strong interest in philosophy and has dabbled in philosophy.
She took classes in college, but it wasn't her primary study.
But she is very interested in philosophy.
We can talk about it for like five to ten minutes before she starts to lose me.
So yes, that's...
Right, okay.
I think my brother...
Oh no, my brother's a psychology major.
So yes, I have at least one person who does like to at least talk about philosophy.
Okay, okay.
So I've spent a reasonable amount of time getting high with people who've studied philosophy.
And this next clip really started to feel familiar to me by the end.
Some time ago, you said we were entering this era of New Kings.
I don't know when you started saying it, but you said it to me about a year ago.
New Kings, you said.
And I clocked it and thought it was interesting.
And now we're seeing how that's playing out.
The boundaries are shifting.
It's kind of a cybernetic gerrymandering as the space moves.
Beyond geography and into something more conceptual yet actual in so much as it can be administrated and it can be controlled.
Now, to your point about spontaneity, I wonder if it's in any way ultimately distinct from the sort of Socratic idea that the spoken word had a distinct authenticity.
From the written?
Yeah, I agree.
Well, and it was Socrates who decried that, if I remember correctly, right?
He was afraid that if the written took primacy, The concretization of thought would eliminate...
I mean, I think Foucault wrote about that, as a matter of fact, in favor of Socrates' proposition that the spoken should take priority over the written.
But it does have something to do with this paradoxical relationship between propagandizing and pre-preparation.
See, it isn't obvious to me that you can lie effectively, spontaneously in a conversation.
No, not necessarily continually.
Now, you remember about 500,000 words ago, 10 minutes ago, at the beginning of our conversation, we both speak relatively quickly.
I mentioned that an ever-present, omnipresent God, if God is the absolute creator, a-temporal, a-spatial, outside of the limitations of space and time, it struck me the other day as I was having one of these kind of transcendent experiences I've been having since becoming Christian.
That God would be present in every moment and discernible in every interaction.
That there would indeed be narrativizable lessons.
Discernment is the right word there because that's what discernment is for.
Discernment is to find the path where the sacred manifests itself in each moment.
Yeah, to detect or divine.
To divine.
Where is it?
Where is God?
Divine is a transitive verb rather than as a description of the sublime.
To detect or to divide.
Where is it?
Where is the divide?
Like, fuck me.
A friend of mine in school, one time he asked one of our, we walked into class and our professor looked really beat up that day, like really haggard.
And my friend just asked him, it was just like, hey Trick, his last name was Trick.
He's like, hey Trick, did you sleep in a bed last night?
And that's always like stuck with me, that particular insult.
Jordan Peterson never looks like he slept in a bed last night.
He always looks like he woke up on a floor, a couch, on the road.
He always looks so fucking busted.
Like, his face.
He always looks like he doesn't sleep well.
I just had the thought, just the moment when he was like, discernment.
It's like...
It was like a weird thing where this light kind of like broke through his eyes and the cloud lifted for a moment.
I was like, oh my God, he actually heard something someone else said and responded to it.
It's like he had one second where he was cognitive of the world around him and then it immediately went away.
But it was a very...
The light died.
It was in some ways encouraging because I was like...
Well, if Jordan Peterson can hear another person speaking for one second, who knows what you can break through with other people.
Yeah, yeah, that's true.
I also love the...
Socrates was afraid if writing was the primacy.
Oh shit, Foucault wrote about that too.
Oh my god, can you pass the Funyuns?
It's just like...
This is such a fucking bullshit.
I've had this conversation.
I've had this conversation, I swear to Christ.
Two 25-year-olds saying that, and then there's a pause.
And then one of them is like, dude, Jill's tits are so big.
Yeah, yeah.
Also, Jordan Peterson does not speak quickly.
That's a part of what's so frustrating about this.
If it was two guys who were like...
Okay, I could take that a little better.
But one guy is just like talking so much so quickly.
And then the other guy is like, yes, I agree.
And that is where the concepts...
Come from, and it feels like going from listening to a podcast on 1.5 speed to.75 speed.
You're getting in the hot tub and then jumping in the Atlantic Ocean in the middle of winter.
It is a bombardment of the senses.
And, like, regardless of that, it takes both of them just an absolute age to arrive at a point.
Like, I wouldn't mind if it was lots of words and they both, you know, actually were making, like, quick-fire, rapid-fire points, but, like, man!
I sat there and I was like, oh, these clips are a little long, but, like, it just takes them that long to make the fucking point!
Goddamn! And if I'm sitting there talking to somebody and they go, you know, the Socratic method, I'm going to be like, get away from me.
I'm not having this conversation.
Like, if you're going to be referencing the Socratic method by name, I know I'm not going to be getting much out of this.
Yeah, we're off to a bad start.
I don't know if you're still in your refractory period or you're practicing abstinence, but for whatever reason, you can't...
Do a practical jerk-off session, so you're going to sit here and do it verbally in front of me, and I refuse to consent to that.
Yeah, yeah.
That's all they're doing.
That's all they're up to.
Yeah, yeah.
Unfortunately, I am also pretty sure that both of these men are stone-cold sober, because I would be far more interested in this conversation otherwise.
And just to address a couple of points, if anyone wants to see someone who is able to lie spontaneously and continuously, you need only look at the current President of the United States.
There you go.
If he opens his mouth...
It's lying.
That's what's coming out.
You can look at Russell Brand.
It's not convincing, but we've all told lies convincingly spontaneously.
Even if it's like, what are you doing Friday?
And you're like, oh, I don't know if this person knows that we're throwing a party.
I'm going to their birthday party, but I don't know if they know.
I can't be sure.
So you just go, I'm just going to a movie.
Congratulations, you have successfully spontaneously lied.
Unless I missed some context around what they were saying.
What do they mean?
What does that matter?
What? Well, it's part of the idea, basically, that spontaneity...
Supposedly, Socrates had this big thing where, like...
The written, according to fucking Jordan Peterson, where, like, the written word, you know, could be full of liars and was manipulatable, whereas if you were saying things out loud, you know, at the forum or whatever, then that would be more honest, was the idea.
So that's where he's coming from, from that, because, like, oh, it's harder to lie when you're in the moment spontaneously and continuously or whatever, and I'm like, well, maybe at first it is.
I get the feeling that's something you can get better at, you know?
I've seen politics.
Has this guy not heard of a trial?
Yes. You're being cross-examined by the prosecution.
People go up there and lie all the time successfully.
What do they think?
Go watch an American cop in court if you want to see someone lie over and over and over again.
Fundamentally, the entire industry of law, particularly in America, and it's lawyers who built the country, who designed the country, you know, you're like, yeah, no, they're all fucking...
Not every lawyer is a liar, but every lawyer is good at lying, in my experience.
I'm like, they're all...
We're all fucking good at it.
The entire idea of prep is getting these people prepared to be able to spontaneously react in a way that helps whatever side they are on during cross-examination.
That's the entire reason you prep.
A witness or the defense, like, that's why you do that, so that they can successfully...
And I mean, a lie can be anything from leaving something out to twisting.
There's so many different ways you can lie.
And the idea of...
Yes. I also, I don't believe Socrates said this either.
I'm going to be honest.
I have a sneaking suspicion there may be getting Socrates wrong.
Yeah, I didn't bother to look it up because I was like, who gives a fuck what these yahoos are coming out with?
But I was just like, yeah, okay, sure, sure, sure.
That's an idea that someone has...
Oh, and also, yeah, Russell is falling down the religious rabbit hole that, like, in every moment there is a narrativizable lesson, therefore every single thing in life is a part of God's plan, which to me would open up a door of, like...
Man, I wish there wasn't quite so much genocide in God's plan, huh?
But Russell seems to be viewing this with much more to do with his life personally rather than about the world generally, which is very consistent with his narcissism.
This is, especially growing up Catholic, it is the most frustrating thing where they're like, the entire idea of like, well, we just can't understand God's plan.
His, you know, he is everything.
It's impossible to know.
I do prefer the sort of way that, like, you know, the way it's kind of discussed in, like, A Serious Man, and I've heard other people talk about how, like, Reform Judaism tackles these kinds of subjects, where it's just sort of like, who knows?
Like, it's just like, well, why would this happen?
I don't know.
I don't know.
Got me.
I appreciate that.
I appreciate anyone with a religious doctrine to just be like, I'm like, yeah, you know what?
I like your honesty.
Yeah, I remember Mark Maron describing, really relating, really understanding the moment in A Serious Man where it's like the rabbi tells this incredibly long story about a man going into the dentist and he kept having Hebrew letters on the back of his teeth and the dentist kept seeing them and he tells the story and then the story ends and Michael Stolberg is like...
Well, what does it mean?
And the rabbi literally is just like, what does it mean?
Who knows?
It's like, you know, I prefer that.
So you're just kind of walking around with something to chew on as opposed to like, you idiot, you worm.
How dare you question God?
You're so pathetic.
There's no universe you could understand.
Like, I don't need to be lectured to about how stupid I am.
I feel stupid every day of my life already.
I don't need God making me feel stupid too.
Yeah, yeah.
Also, don't think I missed that one there.
Something to chew on?
That was good.
I like that.
Oh, right.
I didn't even think of it.
See? I'm stupid.
I don't need God to remind me.
I'm that stupid.
I don't give my own jokes.
Oh, God.
Right. On the subject of Russell's narcissism, in this next clip, he discusses his apparent former worship of the self.
The thing is, before, with the narcissism, me being a devotee of the other culture, a devotee of the false idolatry, I worshipped self.
Now, at first it felt like the pilgrimage was very meekly undertaken, for I was not a robust child athlete, nor was I a high school heartthrob.
I was a broken and wounded little trickster in the world.
And when I became empowered at puberty and attractive and potent and then famous, and it all was, I felt, evolving or growing, but one of my teachers would say inflating.
It was inflating.
Like, you know, it's difficult.
If you've felt pretty worthless your whole life, and all of a sudden there's a culture queuing up to give you sort of accolades and pat you on the back, and there's a sort of an endless cortege of fellatio suddenly available, it's difficult not to think that you might not be rather magnificent.
Now, the reason I like, as a sort of a counterweight to the feelings of inferiority, I would have been resisting.
I always knew something about Jesus.
I knew something about Jesus, but my odd...
The contemporary translation of that was, I want to be him.
I want to be the saviour.
I want to be in direct commune with God.
I want to lead.
I want to be empowered.
And then when...
When the desolation came, the desolation and despair, when the grail came again, not like the adolescent despair, when you know you've got a whole life and a bunch of hormones about to hit you and elevate you, middle-aged desolation and decimation, desecration,
despair, despondency.
When that incursion came, when those arrows landed...
There was a clarification took place amidst the catastrophic white noise and haze was not just the cross, but the solitary figure, fully man, fully God, to whom we must bow down.
So, to sum up, Russell had a midlife crisis and became a Christian.
When he goes, huh?
As if he's like, oh, what a good point I just made.
Huh? Also to be like, I abandoned the worship of self.
When he has prior to that started every single sentence with I, me, he's worked myself in there somewhere.
He is exclusively talking about all of this through his own lens.
Yep, yep.
There's something telling coming up to that regard as well.
I should also be clear, for anyone unaware, there are articles with Russell discussing how much he loves Christianity as far back as 2017.
So, like, the conversion and midlife crisis isn't necessarily new, though it could be argued that the baptism in a river with Bear Grylls was very intentional after the allegations against him.
Bear Grylls?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Do you not know that?
Yeah, Bear Grylls was, he was the one who arranged Russell's baptism, funnily enough.
Bear Grylls is an Anglican.
This is like the worst country in the world, man.
This, the stuff that goes on here is not right.
This was in the UK.
This was in the Thames.
He got baptized in the Thames and then his friend Joe, who was there, cut his foot open on a piece of broken glass that was also in the Thames.
They had to rush him off to hospital.
Like, yeah, I imagine so.
Like, the Thames is literally full of shit.
We have problems.
Yeah, famously, here's a bipartisan issue in the UK.
Both major parties refuse to crack down on the foreign company that owns...
That's it, right?
There's like a UAE company owns essentially the British water system and refuses to make the necessary improvements, but like...
Essentially, all those guys went to school together, so none of them are actually going to punish this company in an adequate way to make them deal with these improvements.
It doesn't fucking matter.
It is incredibly worrying just how many foreign interests seem to own all of our national infrastructure.
It is genuine.
Our public transport is owned by a fucking Dutch company and stuff.
And I'm just like, why?
Why are we in this situation?
That doesn't seem good.
What do you mean public transportation is owned by a private company?
Yeah, yeah.
Margaret Thatcher is the answer to that question.
And it's not gone well, is my assessment.
Oh, I should also say, we're currently reading through Russell's autobiography, My Booky Wook, for the On Brand Book Club at the moment.
And I will say, his childhood was an absolute...
Trainwreck. It is genuinely disturbing in many.
Like, I would not be surprised if lawyers end up, like, citing his book against him in his criminal case.
Like, you know, it's very telling in places.
So, so.
I made a point of Russell describing his worship of the self as being in the past, because in the next clip he just kind of goes against that in every single way.
Oh, and for those listening, he will knock over a glass in excitement somewhere in the middle of this clip.
Now, I don't know that I might.
You know, it'll be, for someone who's, as you say, open, peripatetic, intellectually, and capricious as I've sometimes been, perhaps it would seem audacious to claim that I belong to him, but I surrender to you as my Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ, I serve you.
Yeah, well, it's something you want to do with care, that's for sure.
So surely, surely.
But to let you know that the ego's still in here, I may have given up wanting to be Jesus Christ, but I'm going to give as best a shot as I can give at being Paul.
I'll come down from Jesus.
But only so far.
Oh no, sorry Lord!
Sorry Lord!
Paul's just a man like us.
Paul's just a man like us.
Acts is full of men like us.
Ephesians, written by a man like us.
Galatians, a man like us.
And now, amidst these tectonic shifts and new and emerging kings and new paradigms and new language, here he is, Christ.
That's great evidence of how much he's lost his comedy fastball in that when he first goes, but I can be Paul.
And I'm like, you know what?
That's kind of a funny thing to say.
But then he gets so worked up, he smashes the glass with his hand and then he starts going, sorry, Lord.
And I'm like, no, he doesn't.
He overdid it.
And now it's just annoying.
He had like three seconds where it was like, maybe this will actually be kind of a funny joke.
And then he does too much.
He does too much because he doesn't know how to do it anymore.
Yeah, he's completely lost it.
And he does mean the Paul thing sincerely.
Oh, yes.
He brings that up semi-regularly.
And I'm like, yeah, the idea that he wants to be Paul, right?
The rock, the church, Paul is referred to.
I remember this because it was driven into so much.
Paul really is the number two.
He is the rock that the church is built on.
That's what he's referred to.
This is what I'm thinking, because I'm like, okay, the idea that, like, the apostles were men like us is a perspective, but I would say most of them are a bit different in that they were supposedly the literal disciples of the literal Jesus Christ in the flesh, who then supposedly went on to write the New Testament.
I mean, Paul was converted after Jesus died and came back and then ascended.
He was a Christian hunter.
He was a Christian hunter.
Right. Yes, right, right.
The popular browser series Christian Hunter.
But, like, if that is your belief system...
Is Milfunder so funny?
I don't know.
If that is your belief system, how can you be like, look, I may not be Jesus, but I can be one of the most important and influential apostles in biblical history.
It feels a little bit blasphemous and definitely narcissistic to me.
You can't pick, Paul.
You can call yourself an apostle, a disciple.
You can be like, I want to be the 15th.
I want to be the 15th one.
Even if you wanted to be like, I want to be like Matthew or John.
Pick one of the guys.
Just one of the standards.
But Paul particularly is so important.
He was a Christian hunter and God was like, this guy is the only guy who can do this, so I'm going to convert him in a vision.
Yeah. I thought it was just a fun one-off joke.
I didn't know.
I didn't know he was running around always being like, I like to think of myself as a bit of a Paul.
Oh, like John Ringo and George?
No, no, my friend.
The comparison has been made that like, oh yeah, he's having his like, soul to Paul kind of moment.
With his conversion, and you're like, oh!
Definitely not.
Definitely not.
I am excited for him to have his road to Damascus moment whenever that happens.
And he can start seeing the literal ghost of Jesus in a concentrated beam of light that turns him blind for a few days.
That'll be fun.
That'll be a fun episode for me to cover.
Hey, God, if you want to do it as, I don't know, the concentrated wave of, I don't know, sound or just whatever it'll take to get him to be like mute for a few days instead of blind.
That would be ideal.
A concentrated wave of nausea?
I don't know.
Norovirus? That's pretty unpleasant.
A concentrated wave of norovirus.
That should do the trick.
Paul going from Saul to Paul is one of those things where it's like, hey, you can do more than one letter if you want.
You don't have to do this for everyone else's convenience.
Go as wild as you want, you know?
And if people care about you, they'll make the effort to learn the new name.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I do understand the desire for convenience, but I'm also very, very lazy in that regard.
Yeah, I understand that part.
I know people who've transitioned, who've had unisex names and just kept the name because they were like, what am I going to make a new website?
No, I'm not going to get a new URL.
Absolutely not.
It's a lot of effort.
It's a lot of effort.
I'm fundamentally lazy.
*laughs * So, from here, Jordan Peterson starts chatting about other Bible stories before Russell brings up the subject of the whole Isaac willingly sacrifice his son to God thing.
You know, because God told him to.
And throughout this bit, I was pretty much...
Cool guy who did a cool thing.
Cool guy who did a cool thing.
And, like, throughout this, I was pretty much just further convinced that neither of these men should be parents.
And, obviously, is partnered by the abortive...
Sacrifice of Isaac in Genesis, which precedes, preempts and acts as a prologue to the ultimate sacrifice.
And I tried to take that apart because that's a story, for example, that the atheists like Dawkins point to as indicative of the sadism of God.
But I think what it means is that, of course, you offer your children to God because you can't protect them and you don't want them to be nihilistic.
And so what you do is you say they're...
Their service as tools in the hands of the divine takes priority over everything.
They're not yours.
That's right.
Well, and remember, Abraham gets him back, right?
And there's a lesson there.
It's like, if you're willing to devote your children to what's highest, they return to you.
Also, faith demands of us that even though materially and actually you're in a moment where there's a knife above your child, you are...
Okay, thank God.
I mean, this doesn't look good from where I am, but I know that my perspective is just a set of interlocutors, of fragmented desires, that transubstantiation is being taken anyway.
You are taking the body, and the word you used was possessed by the false idols, by the desires continually.
The transubstantiation of desire is continually taken away.
I am occupied by desire.
I locate myself here in this desire.
My polarity is achieved by my desire, and inverted commas my, because who is the my if the false idol has now occupied me?
That makes you a slave to the desire.
I am its parasite, so we have no choice.
The only antidote, the only self, is him.
He is the only salvation.
It's only by dying on the cross with him that I can neutralize it, because otherwise I will be possessed again.
They're doing, like, Buddhist shit now, talking about, like, having desire in the way out of, like, this is so non-denominational, this conversation.
This is such a non-denominational conversation.
It doesn't even feel like they're talking about Christianity until they, like, they toss in a few names.
But, like...
I'm not a theologist.
I'm not an expert.
I don't believe in any of this stuff anymore, but I was around it a lot growing up, and I wasn't bombarded with it.
We were essentially a secular home, except my mom would make us go to church until my dad got mad and wanted his Sundays back.
But the way they talk is so divorced from how I have heard any Christian talk about their faith.
It is so strange to listen to that I sincerely forget.
That's what they're talking about while they're in the middle of it.
It is a notion of this shit that is incomprehensible to me.
I mean, I can wrap my head around Russell Brand because I do think a part of this is from his desire to essentially save himself in his career.
Jordan Peterson, I believe it.
He believes this stuff.
He thinks this shit is real.
Also, you mentioned their kids.
Jordan Peterson's daughter very famously like...
Essentially kidnapped him and put him in, like, a rehab house for, like, four months while she partied with her Russian boyfriend.
So, you know, if Russell Brand's daughters can have that relationship with him, I suppose it's better than nothing.
And Russell, or Jordan Peterson also, kind of makes a point.
I don't agree with and think he's stupid, but I at least understand in this instance of being like, your child belongs to God anyway.
You know, life is so meaningless.
This is a depression window into how they look at the world.
But life is so devoid of meaning that by...
Essentially indoctrinating your child into believing in Christ.
You give them purpose and meaning and joy all through Christ.
And also, they belong to God anyway.
They're his, not yours.
So he can sort of do with them what he wants anyway.
I think that is an insane way to look at the world.
I think that is so fucked up.
And that's a great way to raise a child with severe depression issues and attachment issues.
It is distressing.
I understood what he meant.
And then Russell Peters starts talking and it's like, what do you think you're adding to this right now?
Do you know, there was an interview a while back where Russell mentioned that his wife, Laura, wouldn't trust him alone with his kids for 24 hours.
And I'm like, yeah, this is adding to my understanding of why that might be.
Yeah, if my wife treated me with our kids the way Mia Farrow treated Woody Allen around their kids, I would perhaps have an issue with that.
I would look into the window of my soul and go, oh, it's as dark as night through this window.
It is pitch black and terrifying through this window.
And I must turn on a porch light.
Yeah, yeah.
In terms of, like, the biblical story, for those not familiar, in the biblical narrative, God orders Abraham to sacrifice his son Isaac on a mountain.
As Abraham goes to kill him, having tied Isaac to an altar already, suddenly a ram appears and is slaughtered in Isaac's stead.
So, like, as the knife is coming down, the old switcheroo happens.
And then God commends Abraham's pious obedience, offering his son as a human sacrifice, right?
Talking about that?
And they're like, yeah, that was pretty tight.
That's pretty good.
What the fuck?
These fools like Richard Dawkins would point to this as some notion of God's cruelty for some reason.
How absurd is the notion?
I used to do a bit about that story in the context of relating it to having a partner who was obsessed with proving to themselves that you're...
Like, faithfulness to them, that you wouldn't cheat on them.
And then somebody came up to me, this comic motion catcher came up to me once and was like, just so you know, Laurie Kilmartin has a bit really similar to that, but it's about a drunk guy at a party.
And I was like, oh, fuck, I should watch that bit, and if they're too similar, I'll just stop doing mine, because she's, you know, very successful.
It's just, I'm not, I'm not going to come out like I'm stealing bits from me.
Two weeks later, I'm watching Louis, and Louis C.K. essentially does...
The middle between our two versions of the bit, he does that on his television show and burns it on TV.
And I was like, okay, well, I guess it doesn't matter now because now that bit is neither of ours.
It's Louis C.K.'s.
And that, to me, is the worst thing he ever did to anybody.
You know, I stand by that.
But this story is so famously crazy that, like...
Comedians everywhere are writing bits about it, independently of each other, with this sort of exact same through line, and these two guys are going to sit there and be like, what a beautiful story.
Yes, it was great.
It was great.
Russell takes it further by being like, hey, if you're occupied by anything other than the Lord, you're basically a slave to the devil, so if you don't die on the cross with Jesus, you'll be possessed again.
And even without the criminal charges against him, I'm very...
Maybe I am giving him more credit by insisting he doesn't believe all this stuff.
Because if he really feels this way, that's like a terrifying notion that someone would genuinely feel this way about all this stuff.
That's why Jordan Peterson's so scary and weird and disgusting.
It's because when he talks, you're like, this guy thinks...
This is true and makes sense.
Yes! Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's bone-chilling to think about a man who genuinely filters all his beliefs through modern Disney movies versus old Disney movies.
That's a weird guy who scares me.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
The remake of Pinocchio is terrible, and here's why.
You're like, why is anyone taking you seriously?
These fables are not meant to encourage the chaos dragon of the female form without substantial balance from the order-giving maleness of those figures.
And you're like, buddy, you're 65 years old.
What are you talking about?
I'm embarrassed to talk to my wife about pro wrestling, and this guy is talking to total strangers about The Little Mermaid.
Like, it's deathly serious.
Yes, yeah, that's the real kicker, is just how seriously he takes himself and all of the words he says.
Somehow it has this effect of convincing other people to take it seriously as well.
Ugh, that's the one thing he is good at, I will say that.
So, next, Jordan Peterson chimes back in with a subject he's somewhat obsessed with, and that is the subject of voluntary self-sacrifice.
Yeah, to him that's the answer to all things, despite the very concept conflicting with almost everything he supports.
Through this lens, however, he gives us a lesson on economics from the Bible.
Part of the reason that Christ is the provider of endless loaves and fishes is because...
There is no more stable economic covenant than one that's founded on the principle of voluntary self-sacrifice.
So if you found your whole...
See, we have a very skewed notion in the West of what constitutes natural resource.
Because there's such a thing as the resource curse, right?
So if you look economically at countries that are blessed with natural resources, they're not rich, not by and large.
They're corrupt and poor.
And that's because the idea of natural resource is wrong.
The only natural resource, the only true natural resource is the principle that the covenant of cooperative social productivity is predicated on.
And that's the ethos of voluntary self-sacrifice.
If you have that, everything becomes a resource.
That's why Christ is the miraculous provider of the loaves and the fishes and the water that never runs dry.
Because if you organize your society on the principle of voluntary self-sacrifice, then...
Everything is abundant always.
It's not immediate gratification of whim.
It's something much more sustained and productive and communal and upward-serving.
And would it tell us, Jordan, if our culture is antithetical to that and organised around the exact opposite principle, that the self is the apex, that the family isn't real, that the nation isn't real?
And I understand post-structuralism in a way, and I understand the arbitrarians, and I understand the nature of those arguments.
But in the same way that C.S. Lewis observed that something that is foreclosed against and forbidden continually in scripture, usury and debt-based culture, has become the economic foundation of the West.
That something...
That is scripturally forbidden, becomes essential, is an indication that Paul and John and our Lord, I'm not talking about the Beatles, I'm talking about the New Testament, were all right when they said, this is the dominion of the evil one, that you fight not against flesh and blood.
So, they're talking past each other.
You can't ask me if I have a heart out and then play a clip like that.
How am I?
How am I to deal with him saying, you know, there's no such thing as quote-unquote natural resources?
And they say the only real natural resources are covenant with God.
And he's like, all these countries with abundant natural resources are poor.
It's like, yeah, because the rich nations take them.
Yeah, yeah.
There's a little colonization problem that might have been interacting there.
A little bit of an imperialistic issue that might be related to...
Because foreign capital comes in and seizes control of all these things.
Why do you think they get so poor?
I don't know.
Look at a country like Bolivia, where, when they took control of their natural resources back, suddenly everyone, the standard of living, skyrocketed.
It's incredible what happened in Bolivia.
How strange.
They took control of their own natural resources.
It's not even semantics what he's arguing.
He just goes, this is not a real thing.
He makes up his own definition for something where you're like, well, yeah, if you just ignore what the thing is, you can really say whatever you want.
You've done it.
You've succeeded.
I now believe 2 plus 2 is 5. I believe 2 plus 2 is 5. I think we broke well.
Yeah, this is what's happened.
I can feel...
Yeah, that's the thing.
They are two incredibly exasperating human beings to listen to in every possible aspect.
So, they're talking past each other a little bit here, which happens very frequently in their conversations.
But one could be forgiven for thinking that they both sound like a couple of raging hippies in this clip.
Because, like, Russell is like, yeah, systems of debt are evil.
And Jordan Peterson is like, hey man, human beings are the actual natural resource.
We need cooperative social productivity and to serve our communities.
Despite both of these men being avid proponents of free market capitalism and both of them decrying socialism on the regular.
These are the kind of guys who say things like, why don't people just move where the jobs are?
Like, completely antithetical to the idea of, like, community, families, like, establishing roots, and, like, they talk about how much they like all those things, and then I'm sure they'd be like, well, if you don't have a job where you live, just go to North Dakota and work in the oil fields.
It's like, I'm not from North Dakota.
I don't know anybody there.
I don't have anything there.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Go pick fruit.
We kicked all the immigrants out.
We need people to do that.
Yeah, I hope you guys hate oranges because they're not coming around anymore.
Yup! Yeah, yeah, and...
Yeah, in terms of thinking that countries blessed with natural resources are corrupt and poor, I would like to point Jordan Peterson to the entirety of Western Europe.
And beyond that, yeah, I've little doubt that the countries he's thinking of are the ones that have been colonized and abused for centuries because of the Western Europeans.
And also, like...
Saudi Arabia is poor now, I guess?
You know?
Right. Right, right, right.
There are plenty of examples to prove him wrong.
Anyway, so now we get back to the subject of Russell's past, and in that telling, he has a good acronym to give to us all.
But, like, you know, the reason that I spoke about that, the despair as being the rupture, as being the point of epiphany.
It's because I suppose I've been taken to the very edge of it.
You know, I'm not claiming this is objective or absolute.
I'm claiming precisely the opposite.
It's entirely subjective, of course.
But I went as far as I could go, not only with the hedonism and the epicureanism, but also with the, oh, look, you've got a family now and a dog and a thatched cottage and you live by the river.
I've sort of tried all of it.
And then somehow lurking in the past, those two serpents that I had adored, my own personal Baal and Moloch fame and sex turned.
When I was trying to live, even within the purview of the culture, a somewhat truthful and honest life, hey, this pandemic don't seem right.
They're not telling us the truth about the origins of this.
Well, I don't think you can trust these people.
What's the relationship between the media and these organizations?
And liberalism itself is a kind of godless ideology.
This was when those two serpents...
Now, I already felt that I was kind of an awoken person.
I kind of felt like I was kind of clever, but not long, but held a festival where rather brilliant people like Vandana Shiva and Wim Hof and Kali Means, you know, brilliant people had come, turned up, and I had marched about the grounds holding a staff.
Chant in Ragnarok with a bunch of pagans down there by some river.
The river, in fact, that serves as a border between Wales, the Celtic wilds, and England, the stable centre.
And not long after that, everything fell apart.
I was exposed to so much sin.
And sin, I think, here's a good near acronym.
In. In self.
There stands for self.
Self. The sibilant serpent self.
In self.
No! No!
No! No!
That doesn't...
Sin! How appropriate!
Sin! S-in!
S-in!
Self-in!
In-self!
Insert oneself into oneself!
Like... It's like...
Sin in self, Will!
It's... Wait, that would be sis, surely.
It is like...
Chronic brain injury word association.
That's a lot of Russell's brain these days, I think.
Yeah, and those two serpents that turned on him, by the way, I'm pretty sure that was less fame and sex and far more, you know, the consequences of his own actions.
But yeah, also Russell used to hold his community festival in Hay-On-Y, which is, you know, it's like an hour or so down the road from me.
And one of the big benefits of the allegations and everything is that he is no longer coming into my country.
Though, fun fact, the website for Community Festival does claim that there will be one this year, after last year's was postponed, and all the old tickets from that are still valid.
So it's like, oh, we'll do it next year instead.
It leads me to believe they just kind of don't want to go through the process of refunding everyone's £200 tickets for this straight-edge hippie festival they were supposed to be holding.
Most definitely, yes.
You're definitely correct.
And now they're in Florida, so who the fuck is going to catch them anyway?
Yeah. Now, through this whole everything in life is a lesson from God shtick, Russell seems to include the allegations against him as being some kind of lesson.
So, with the fight, my identity fell apart.
My identity fell apart.
Because Russell Brand is not a famous womanizer.
Russell Brand is a famous rapist.
What? What?
Look at him standing on stage making these jokes.
What? What are you talking about?
What are you talking about?
Being able to direct people's will is not the same as...
Overcoming their will or ignoring their will or coercing them is precisely the opposite.
Having the ability to direct people's will or charm or seduce or enchant.
These are all sort of shamanic, magical kind of qualities.
But yes, I now see where they lead.
Thank you for the lesson, Lord.
I now see where they lead.
And I also now know absolutely, and look at what's happening in my country right now.
Falling apart with an extraordinary, subterranean, potentially barbarian culture of gang rape.
What's going on?
It is.
It's like Old Testament stuff.
So my despair came when what I had built, what I had made for myself, my force idol.
Over my life, I've carved this thing, this image of Russell.
It can be destroyed.
It can be destroyed in a half hour.
The rape gangs of mole people.
Like, we need to get the Fantastic Four to defeat Mole Man and his gangs of sexual predators.
What the fuck, man?
This is so fucking stupid.
Oh, God.
So, it's fucked up that he's describing the allegations against him as being a lesson from God rather than consequences of his own actions.
But the thing I'm most fascinated by in that clip is him trying to delineate the difference between directing people's will and overcoming or ignoring people's will.
Because that feels like a semantic difference that could have some very serious consequences.
And like supposedly he was directing people's will in a shamanic and magical way as well, which frankly does not help his argument.
Okay. I did not know he was saying shamanic, like it's, you know, that that's the rare word with
I would say yes, yes, absolutely.
If someone uses magic to sexually seduce someone, that is absolutely against their will.
That is absolutely not consensual.
That's not consent.
Oh, God.
Didn't see that one in Harry Potter, did you?
Oh, fucking hell.
Very famously, that's one of the only things the genie can't do in Aladdin, because Disney was like, we don't want to have to deal with people asking questions about this.
Yeah, that's going to open a can of worms, that one.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, we'll see.
We'll see.
It might show up in the Harry Potter reboot.
J.K. Rowling's...
Whew, you know, she's got some interesting perspectives on things.
Wouldn't shock me, honestly.
She's gone a bit mad, hasn't she, mate?
You know, a bit off her rocker there.
Yeah, I mean, if she could just carry on rock into the ocean and stay there, that'd be good.
Now, a while back, Jordan Peterson told Russell to read this book, The Sacred and the Profane, is what it's called, by Mercier Eliard, who was a literal Nazi supporter and vicious anti-Semite.
He was banned from countries for being too much of an anti-Semite.
Nonetheless, this is who these guys are taking their philosophical ideas from.
And that book comes up in this next clip.
What it's like psychologically, what it's like psychologically to experience heavenism is it's a slow burn of knowing that he was always there when you're watching TV as a kid and Christianity is tedious.
When you're singing, the wise man built his house upon the rock.
I've missed the fundamental lesson, the literal foundational lesson of that.
That he's there all the time when you're there in sort of five-star hotel rooms and they're asleep on the bed now and you're looking out the window.
Pondering and lonely and empty.
The sort of hollowness of it.
It's there or he's there all the time.
The thread's always there in every moment, in every moment, because in the end, like it says in your man Eliard there, it's not even just a homogenous, without the saying, if you live entirely in the profane, you will sanctify profanity and the culture will sanctify profanity and a priest class will emerge in order to sanctify the profane and to set up false idols.
But it's not even just a homogenous endless space.
It's worse than that.
It's endless, chaotic fragmentation with order imposed on top of it.
It's diabolical and dark and berserk.
It's havoc and hell.
And in the end, that hell will show itself not only to you as an individual.
Well, that's the pharaoh and the slaves.
And the consequence of that is the plagues.
Like, yes, absolutely, that's what happens.
The more dissolute the society, the more the unconscious longing for top-down...
What? Imposition of structure.
The more the top-down, stubborn imposition of structure, the more likely that response to crisis will be pathologized and that the plagues will emerge.
What are you talking about?
He was just talking about how hollow it is to be rich and get pussy all the time.
Then you're talking about the top-down structure of society.
They are...
Completely unrelated to each other.
Also, the little smile on his face is he's like, you know, you're in a five-star hotel.
She's there next to you on the bed.
You look out through the window naked.
Your fucking beautiful hog just, you know, hanging free as you look over at her juicy ass.
Like, buddy, you're getting horny as you're reminiscing about this supposedly empty experience you had over and over.
I can save it by describing it also as hollow.
So it's fine.
That makes it acceptable.
Sorry, man.
I'm just not as stupid as the people who listen to you are.
Come on.
So Jordan Peterson jumped in there with the idea that the more dissolute society becomes, the more likely we are to receive plagues, apparently.
So we all became too focused on fucking and hedonistic pleasures, so there you go, there's some plagues for you.
And that's what happened in the Bible story with...
The pharaohs and the slaves.
Apparently the whole having a bunch of slaves thing and them being the chosen people doesn't have much to do with it.
It's that the pharaohs were too interested in fucking and God just couldn't be having that.
That's what actually happened there.
The slaves seem totally incidental to the analogy he's making.
Yes, completely.
Or they're just like a convenient thing where God's like, look, I'm going to look like an asshole if I send these plagues just because these guys are having a fun time.
So I'm going to pretend like it's about the slavery of these people.
But actually, it was about the fucking.
That's what I took real issue with.
Actually, I just hate partying.
I want these kids to get off my lawn with their loud partying.
These kids that I invented with their loud partying bastards.
In the final clip we have to deal with, he takes this a step further because Jordan Peterson seems to think that the Jews being slaves was actually kind of basically their own fault.
But not before we finally get a pop culture reference, because there has to be at least one from this guy.
Maybe that's where then post-structuralists and Yafouko and whatnot are right, because in that, the presupposition is that it's not...
Free will and self-sacrifice.
It's the imposition of order under the continual threat of violence that creates society.
Yeah, but absolutely.
There's no doubt that power is a unifying force.
I mean, that's why in The Lord of the Rings, it's the ring of power that unites all the rings.
If you're not united, let's say, by responsibility and by voluntary self-sacrifice, you will be united by power, right?
That's the rule.
And that's why, you know, even the Israelites who are slaves under Pharaoh, like, they're part of a dynamic.
Sure, the Pharaohs are tyrant, but they're slaves.
And they're calling out for the tyrant.
And so if you call out for the tyrant, power will emerge as a uniting force.
And then you might say, well, why not?
And the answer is, well, it's self-defeating.
It's too rigid to be adaptive, and it's fundamentally self-defeating.
And so that's why not.
I mean, there's more to it, as you pointed out, because there's...
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah....is very genuinely how this conversation ends.
As bizarrely as it began, like, they did a little more for Daily Wire Plus after this, apparently, but, like, fuck am I giving Ben Shapiro any money.
But, yeah, that's the end of the conversation there.
That is such a right-wing talking point, the idea of, like, I simply would not allow myself to be a slave.
I would not have slave mindset.
Like, genuinely to them, it's like slavery is a state of mind.
It's not a physical condition you are put under against your will.
Also, as if, like, the Israelites, as if they did not believe in God until they were freed from slavery in Egypt.
Like, what do you mean?
Well, they were seeking out for a king, so they got put under the oppression of one.
Instead of having the one true king, God.
It's like, but they had...
They had God!
They did stuff!
There's stuff in the Bible pre-Egypt!
Yes! Yes, quite a lot, actually.
So, he also said power is self-defeating for some reason.
Yeah, I'll believe there's more to that argument because it could do with some further explanation.
Power is self-defeating.
Then why are you guys all doing everything you can to take and retain power?
Yeah, weird that, huh?
You keep clamoring for it and cozying up to it.
How strange.
But beyond that, if you're following the divine, you don't need a king, which is what God told the Israelites over and over.
It would be nice if these two very vocal supporters of Donald Trump could remind themselves of the fact that they shouldn't have a king, as well as...
All of Trump's supporters who are in their audience, because, yeah, they just spent an hour and 15 essentially discussing the rise and rights of these new ascendant kings in Trump and Musk, and then pointed out that, well, actually they shouldn't be having any kings at all, should they, if they're, you know, following the old Bible.
In their defense, Trump is not a king, he is a god emperor, a la Leto Atreides II.
He is an enormous worm man.
His penis fell off during that transformation.
I've not read the later Dune books, but I do know they specifically stress.
It goes out of its way to mention that Leto's penis fell off when he became a worm god.
Yeah, sounds about right.
I think that's clearly what he's angling towards now that I think about it.
That makes a lot more sense.
Also, not to nitpick too finely here, but the One Ring in Lord of the Rings did not unite the rest of the rings.
It is the One Ring to rule them all.
Like, not unite to rule, because that's what power does.
It's not unifying, it's forcing compliance.
But hey, I'm sure neither of these guys or Donald Trump would know anything about forcing compliance.
My wife may have dabbled in philosophy.
She majored in Lord of the Rings.
She is obsessed with Tolkien.
All the Tolkien.
Her first boyfriend she met online on a Tolkien forum.
And she loves to talk about how Tolkien and C.S. Lewis talk to each other and Tolkien very specifically went out of his way to do everything possible.
Despite being a Christian, did everything in his power to make Sure, Lord of the Rings was not viewed as a Christian parable.
He very explicitly was like, I am not writing.
The way C.S. Lewis did, I am not writing a Christian analogy.
And so, on her behalf, I got annoyed when they used the Lord of the Rings as an analogy for Christian divinity.
Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, 100%.
Oh, fucking hell.
So, I must ask, after coming on this little journey with me, Will, how are you feeling about both Russell Brand and Jordan Peterson?
Are we feeling good?
Are we feeling a sense of play?
As frustrated as I am, I feel the same as I did before.
Especially Jordan Peterson.
Like, honestly, Jordan Peterson I feel a little better about because it's gratifying to see him at this point completely incoherent.
Like, you know, before it was frustrating because people took things from what he said.
I see this and I'm like, no one who is not already all the way...
All the way, you know, has climbed every rung on the ladder.
There's no way anybody but that person could take anything from this.
Like, this is absolute nonsense, what they're saying.
So I actually feel a little better hearing that.
And Russell Brand, again, seems like, you know, a man at the end of the line.
He seems like a man at the end of his rope.
And it's funny him...
Referencing the allegations and, you know, I like to think it's in a way where he's like, it's been so long, I'm probably free of legal trouble.
And it's funny to know what is right around the corner for him.
Very serious legal trouble.
Yeah, yeah, that is good.
And this is only a month in the past.
That is quite fun.
Yeah, yeah.
These two...
Yeah, it is a weird kind of feeling for me, because, like, on the one hand, whenever I look at one of their conversations, I'm like, ugh, these two have such an incredible influence over so many people for some inexplicable reason.
And yet, every time I actually have to kind of dissect one of their conversations, I'm like, oh, they're both fucking idiots who don't know anything!
And I'm like, I feel immediately better about that!
Yeah, like...
You know, Jordan Peterson seems like a real case study of why you should be very careful about going off benzos.
Like, really, truly consult your doctor if you're going to wean yourself off of your antidepressants.
Because, like, it just seems like they can have some pretty serious side effects if you just try to go cold turkey while only eating beef.
Yes, his all-meat diet.
I don't know if that's one of the rules in his new book.
He's written some more rules for everyone to follow.
I don't know if that's one of them.
Subscribe to my daughter's whole thing and just eat meat.
I'm like, okay.
Don't kidnap your father and stick him in a rehab facility for months.
Oh, what an oddly specific rule.
Yes, that's number one in the book, funnily enough.
That's really, really high up on the list.
Oh, dear.
Well, for real, thank you so much for coming back on, Will.
It has been a pleasure to have you back.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Thank you so much for having me.
It's a delight.
I mean, it was fun.
It's fun.
I get to get worked up.
People are right when they're like, you like getting worked up.
Yeah, of course I like getting worked up.
I'm a big sports fan.
It's perverse.
I've got to get this energy out of me somehow.
Everybody in this house is very jumpy, so I need to save my volume outbursts for this kind of thing.
Yeah, this kind of thing, and hating Bill Maher.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Deeply, yeah.
Fantastic. Well, until next time.
And that's the show, everybody!
Please go and check out the podcast, I Hate Bill Maher, and get tickets to see the live show on April 29th at the Lyric Hyperion in L.A. with John Hastings, Francesca Fiorentini, Vera Drew, and Diego McCavity.
Will will also be there.
Of course, I will be putting links in the description, so go ahead and click those.
Otherwise, On Brand will be back next Thursday.
But in the meantime, take care of yourselves and each other.
Thank you very much.
I love you.
Bye! Alright, I'm going to finish now because I'm hungry and I want to eat something.
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