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Sept. 19, 2024 - On Brand

02:40:20

OB #76 - Yes, Matt Walsh Is In Fact Racist. w/Where There's Woke

Thomas and Lydia Smith of Where There's Woke joined us to tackle multifaceted bigot Matt Walsh and his new movie 'Am I Racist?' as he's interviewed by Russell. Check out Where There's Woke! Support us on Patreon! Buy a magnet!

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	This is propaganda live.
	I only suggest how to take him out of the boat.
	Extraordinary cultural moment.
	Already iconic.
	Already iconic.
	We love you.
	You're welcome here.
	Where did this guy come from?
	It looks like he's been doing it for ages.
	He's very confident.
	Plainly, and this is a matter now of fact and record, I'm right wing.
	I feel that Christ may have had a better vision.
	Is this misinformation or is Vivek Ramaswamy in the lavatory?
	That's sort of like a poem.
	Is this Eminem?
	Man, if we didn't come together in that stream.
	I'm assuming it was just the Pete.
	Now, these are the kind of conversations I think that the legacy media can no longer compete with.
	Win, win, win, win, win, win, win.
	This is On Brand, a podcast where we discuss the ideas and antics of one Russell Brand.
	I'm Al Worth and each week I go through an episode of Brand's show with my co-host Lauren B. That's me, I'm Lauren B. And I'm the co-host that has no idea what we will be talking about today, but it's usually kind of bad.
	It's almost invariably bad, which is why we do the good thing before the bad thing.
	And Lauren, what is your good thing before the bad thing this week?
	Can you go first?
	Can you go first this week?
	I can.
	I absolutely, I absolutely can.
	Um, it's, uh, I, I, I can have two if you want, but one of them is, if you look in my old ear hole there, I have holes in my ears now.
	Um, I did not have holes in my ears before.
	I have sparkly things in my ears because I have gotten them pierced.
	Um, which, uh, yeah, is, is something that has brought me no small amount.
	Thank you, thank you.
	Yeah, it's a small amount of pain, but also a lot of joy, which is good.
	I have very sparkly, shiny things in there now, which is good.
	It's one of those things that shouldn't necessarily feel kind of affirming of genderqueerness, but also for me it is.
	Sure.
	Specifically having both of them done.
	Do Americans have the gay ear?
	The gay ear?
	Yes, that's a thing.
	I mean, a long time ago, we grew up with that.
	Yeah, I grew up with that as well.
	Which was the gay ear for you?
	For us, it was the right one.
	Oh, I don't even know that that was ever, it was just, well, that was a mechanism used to just taunt whoever had the one pierced ear.
	So I think it was left, but I don't think it mattered because it was just like a bullying vehicle.
	Yeah, that's pretty much the purpose of it.
	Because if you don't decide, then it doesn't really matter.
	See, for us, if it was in the left, then you were straight.
	If it was in the right, then you were gay.
	And that was it.
	And if you had both, then you were a girl.
	And that's, yep.
	You never know about hemispheres.
	And maybe it's like Australia, where the toilet water goes the other direction.
	It wouldn't even matter what the United States I mean, it was just, it was a way to be mean, really.
	Yeah, pretty much.
	Pretty much.
	It's a way to be an asshole about it.
	Right, right, right.
	God love the 90s.
	That's so funny.
	Yeah, yeah.
	But hey, I finally got them pierced, so I'm happy with that.
	Yeah, I forgot about that kind of feeling for such a... because, like, I mean, you work in tattoo shops and you work with piercers and, like, It is a race to the top for oh well yeah I mean when you work around like adornment like body adornment things like it's so normal to just have as many holes in your face depending on like depending on your expression but definitely piercers like I don't know, jewelry shopping with male, female and otherwise is like super normal.
	And so, yeah, I guess it's a bit of a throwback for me as far as like that feeling of like, oh, just every person I know had their ears pierced or didn't and gender didn't really factor into it that much, except for like my grandma didn't have pierced ears.
	So we always got her clips.
	Cause yeah, it's just, it's like, so right.
	And I mean, also then like stretching and wearing these gigantic, like beautiful, like rutilated courts like that.
	It was a whole other like, uh, like, like car rims sort of like competition.
	I mean, one of my, yeah, like one of my very close friends is like, was like the jewelry rep that I got my, like, Yeah, I got like my fancy... they're too heavy for me to wear anymore and I can't deal with it these days.
	But yeah, like all the crazy stuff we would buy with our, I mean, with our, you know, from very cool, like, giant...
	Aggressively brass, you know?
	I'd strap a trash can lid to my head if it had a little sparkle on it.
	So yeah, I can't do that because of the show because they cling together and it doesn't work.
	I've run into that actual problem before.
	Trying to record and be like, oh right, I can't look like myself entirely because it makes it look like a wind chime.
	Whereas for me, for the longest time, I have had more tattoos than I have done piercings, and now I'm trying to kind of balance that out.
	And yeah, always kind of nice to have a little bit of gender affirmation in there as well, which is cool.
	Yeah, so what's your good thing?
	My good thing is, all right, it's going to be a typical Lauren.
	Good thing.
	Everybody bear with me.
	It's going to be a bad thing.
	OK, cool.
	What are we getting?
	Oh, pause.
	I'm not going to do that.
	No, no, no.
	I'm just going to keep it nice.
	I'm going to keep it nice.
	Fuck it.
	Whatever.
	Yeah, my good thing is it was really stupid.
	Oh boy, it's really dumb.
	There's this little art space event venue that's down the street from our house called the Color Club, and they have this really adorable little thing they just did for this summer, and I think they're wrapping it up.
	But it's been so delightful, and I want everyone to steal this idea.
	If you can hear my voice, tell someone to steal this idea.
	I'm sure they're cool with it, and it's so brilliant.
	And it's just like kind of a fundraiser thing that they thought of to do during the summer.
	And they call it, it's this little like, oh, it's, how do you even describe it?
	So they're selling ice cream, right?
	Out of like the side of this building.
	And they call it the sugar hole.
	And it's literally like a hole cut out of a drawer.
	And they have puppets that are taking the money and taking your order.
	So then somebody comes out with your like ice, it's very simple.
	And we've had a different puppet.
	There was a cow.
	There's like a weird yellow blob.
	The guy that the last time I think they're going to wrap it up for the season.
	Yes, go ahead.
	Conceptually, this is this is a glory hole with puppets and ice cream.
	Is that is that what I'm getting at?
	Yeah, it's pretty much bigger and higher on the door.
	Okay.
	Yeah, you know, more like a that's all folks kind of porky pig sort of like there's it's just a hole in a door, but it's like, you know, like a like a dust doors like the, you know, the top door top of the door just has like a Oh, yeah, yeah.
	Farmhouse style.
	Like, you know, like, black fabric, right?
	Yes, farmhouse.
	Yeah, it's like, there's, like, black fabric, and then somebody behind the fabric is being the puppet who... I see, okay.
	...takes your order, and... That changes my mental picture, thank you.
	Cool, yeah.
	Right.
	And, well, it's not the easiest thing.
	I'm realizing that, like, I understood it because they put pictures and video on Instagram, and just using my words... I'm like, Puppet Glory Hall!
	That's what I'm getting, but yeah, yeah, no, different.
	Way harder to talk about.
	Well... Okay, cool, cool, cool.
	I mean, definitely all puppets are, like, you know, there's, like, there's a hot...
	No, that's not what I meant.
	Oh my god.
	Ow, Jesus.
	Okay.
	You have to hide as the puppeteer and then put the puppet somewhere to make it look alive, like, right.
	Yeah, so it's a lot harder to explain than just because, again, like I said, like, oh, I saw a picture and it made perfect sense and I just have to use words and I have not thought about using words to explain it till right now.
	Anyway, it's so delightful, and I get that it's for kids, but I loved it.
	I've built a number of puppets in my weird career of making art stuff, and so I also very much appreciate it, the craftsmanship that goes into it and the effort.
	And the little guy this this time was a butler and had like a whole shtick and oh my god it was so cute and fun um and I think it's I just love how like what a great idea it was and also how they managed it it's like you you talk to the puppet you make your order you give them the money but they don't have to actually like interact with the ice cream so it doesn't get gross or Sticky or anything someone else comes out with your order, right?
	So it's just it's like brilliant and it's like so the simplicity is really what's brilliant to me It's like nice and it's just the most delightful fucking thing in the world Like it's the it's not a good thing.
	It's the fucking best thing That's the best thing, okay.
	And I will miss it, you know, like, obviously, like, you know, Ice Cream has seasons, and so since summer's winding down, um, you know, it's not gonna be there anymore, but I'm very excited for it.
	Next year, it's the coolest.
	It's just the coolest.
	So... Very, very cool.
	That's, uh, yeah.
	It's, it's like... Very, very cool.
	The best thing.
	Everyone take that idea.
	The best thing.
	It's so cool.
	The best thing.
	Everyone should do it.
	Yeah!
	It's very cool.
	Very fun.
	Alright, we've got a show to do, but first we should thank a new patron.
	So, Trish R, you are now an awakening wonder.
	You are indeed an awakening wonder.
	Thank you very much, Trish R. Was that Trish R?
	Trish R. R, not Trisha.
	Not Trisha, yeah, Trish R. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
	Deeply appreciated, thank you.
	And if you do enjoy the show, please leave us a five-star review wherever you're listening, and please do share us with your friends, loved ones, or anyone you think might enjoy this project of ours.
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	And as a patron, you will also get a shout out on the show and access to our patron only after show off brand.
	And this week we had our monthly live stream and it was so much fun.
	Um, we discussed everything from edgy comedy to self-employment to biscuits and biscuits and accents.
	And it was, it was a, it was a whole lot of fun.
	It was great.
	Great, great time.
	Thank you so much.
	Everybody that came by.
	It was really fun.
	I like talking to you guys so much.
	So much.
	And if you go to patreon.com on brand, then you can watch the recording that's up there as well.
	And super duper fun.
	And also check out the many, many hours of other content that we put up there.
	And please note that while you can easily listen to our audio version anywhere, you can find podcasts.
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	So this week we are back to tackling Stay Free with Russell Brand, thankfully.
	No more Tucker.
	And Russell has a guest for us to deal with.
	This guest, however, is terrible enough for me to need to call in some backup.
	And so it is my great pleasure to introduce to the show, Thomas and Lydia Smith of Where There's Woke.
	Hi friends!
	Happy to have you here.
	Hi, I'm pre-sorry.
	Yeah, can I just say, are you guys okay?
	Like, have you been really having to do this this much?
	Oh my god, yeah.
	I'm hoping this is some resume pattern.
	We watched one and we were like, no, no.
	You've done like three episodes and you just pretended you did a bunch of others?
	Because there's no way.
	Like, fuck this guy.
	This is impossible.
	It's like almost to the point where I don't want to watch Forgetting Sarah Marshall ever again.
	It's like one of my favorite movies and it sucks!
	It's a shame.
	It's a shame because that movie is, I think, still good.
	I think I watched it a few years ago and it was still decent.
	And he's good in it.
	Like, he's really good in that movie.
	It's like, Between him and Jonah Hill, right?
	It's worse to see him do great.
	You could have just kept doing well.
	You could have just been doing those weird sumo squats through life and being a weird rock star showing up here.
	His entire brain is the high schooler trying to pad out their essay at all times.
	How do you deal with that?
	I really wanted to diagram some sentences.
	Do you ever do that?
	You should.
	You should.
	It's not possible.
	Like, when he gets on a bramble, you know, the five minute questions and everything just nudge.
	Oh my God.
	Yeah.
	I thought I was bad at that.
	No, no.
	He's not good at this.
	Everything was a monologue.
	Everything was a monologue.
	Oh, none of us matter.
	We know exactly who it's for, and it's for Russell.
	Russell likes $5 words, so Russell's gonna play in the $5 word playpen until he's good and done.
	Which he did do to Tucker, which was kind of funny.
	Yeah, that was fun when I watched that.
	Was Tucker itching to get in there or anything, or just had that dumbfounded look on his face?
	Well, that's the thing.
	I can't wait to talk about it.
	I can't wait to talk about today's thing because I would be very curious what happened with Tucker because like, it would not be easy to be interviewed by this guy.
	Like I gotta say, I'm a little, I don't wanna use a word, this is, I don't wanna, this is gonna sound crazy.
	I'm slightly impressed by how this guy dealt with being interviewed by this insane person.
	Like, that's not an easy thing to do.
	You're impressed with Matt Walsh.
	Clip it.
	Just kidding.
	Clip it.
	I'm impressed he can put his pants on because he seems completely useless.
	I think it's all adjusted.
	This is all relative.
	Truly.
	But I get it though.
	Did I not understand the gimmick?
	I thought we were supposed to not say who.
	I'm the only one that didn't know!
	I was being all good about it, and then usually you're the one who knows what's happening, so I was like, if you did that, do I not know what's happening?
	No!
	That's why you looked at me like that.
	I've been so desensitized to disappointment.
	Dang it!
	I'm out of here!
	They like it when I'm upset.
	We've embarrassed ourselves in front of...
	We're going to have a quick break for Mr. Pike.
	We're going Oh, my God.
	Oh, boy.
	So, Thomas and Lily, like, the essence and origins of Where There's Woke, of your show, is to, like, look into the points of wokeness the alt-right might be complaining about in a given week, right?
	So, like, if a professor is fired for free speech or something like that, you guys drill down into the truth of the matter and see what's happening.
	No, no, no.
	If a nothing happens to a professor who then makes up an entire controversy, that's what we look at.
	We don't actually look at if Because that doesn't ever happen.
	That sounds more accurate, yeah.
	The luxury of the upset-edness.
	Yeah, if a professor wants to say the n-word or something and then thinks they should be able to do it and then gets really mad that they can't and then makes up a whole fake thing, that's what we cover.
	Yeah, that sounds about right.
	Set the record straight.
	So yeah, it's a fun show, really interesting.
	And through that, you've dealt with some characters familiar to this show, like Jordan Peterson, Gina Carano, Ron DeSantis, etc, etc.
	And today we'll be tackling one that neither of us have dealt with yet, but is someone firmly in both of our crosshairs.
	And as ever, I will let Russell introduce the guest.
	And in the interest of Time, I'll let them both leap right into the first little chunk of the interview.
	And you know what?
	It feels weird not having Lauren on the bottom, so one sec.
	Wait, hang on.
	Is that going to work?
	I have a whisper fight.
	Oh, no.
	Why is it still not doing it?
	All right, I'm just going to leave it.
	That's fine.
	Well, right now we're just figuring it out.
	Why is that not doing what I'm supposed to do?
	We are such bottoms, apparently, that we have The software's like, no, they're just.
	They belong here.
	What's crazy is I just accept that as a reality.
	I've met you and I've met with you both.
	Lauren, you're a switch.
	I like it, I like it.
	Am I now?
	Is that news to anybody?
	Just according to StreamYard.
	StreamYard was right about my hard drive.
	And now StreamYard might be right about sexual positions.
	Subservience.
	Yeah, yeah, okay, okay, cool.
	We're gonna roll with it.
	Y'all have seen my Grindr profile.
	First up over here, apparently.
	All right, let's leap into it anyway.
	Matt Walsh, thank you so much for joining us today for Stay Free with Russell Brand.
	All right, I've had enough.
	Russell, thanks for having me around.
	I watch a lot of your content and I wonder, I suppose that your films have been uniquely successful in this space.
	Can you pause it?
	Sorry, can you pause it?
	Is that possible?
	Not really.
	Yes.
	Because the first question is so... God, this is the best question.
	How do I get?
	Question.
	It's nothing.
	It's like someone surprised him, Russell Brand, with a show that he's doing.
	They're like, hey, we plopped you into this entire set.
	You have to figure out who the guest is.
	It's like Lauren, you have to figure out who the guest is.
	And then you got to try to fashion a question.
	And like some of the questions later on are like kind of something, but this one, just, just, if you just, just nudge back, just go through the language of this one.
	I won't do this every time, just for this first question.
	Well, I did want to say, and I wanted to warn, because we talked about Tucker and anyone interviewing anybody else with Russell in the room, or whoever, because I think this is the case with a lot of these types of people.
	They aren't interviewing anyone.
	They're taking turns talking.
	And Tucker loves not working, so he was just sitting and just basking and having a grand old time watching Russell make him money at his event.
	That was it.
	It was letting her cook.
	I can hardcore.
	I don't do it so much anymore, but I used to, like, if I ever got asked to do a podcast I didn't want to do, and the person is just one of those people who talks and talks and doesn't have any concept of what's going on, I just was like, yeah, no, sure, go.
	Why am I here?
	Who is this for?
	You carry on.
	Who is this for?
	The worst one so far is definitely Russell and Jordan Peterson.
	They've never met!
	They've been on camera together so many times!
	I have a secret hidden theory that Russell Brand is Jordan Peterson's long lost son.
	They look alike.
	If you look at this area right here, they look a lot alike.
	It's the shape of the head.
	And they both are full of nonsense language forever all the time.
	And now they both dress crazy.
	They both dress completely crazy.
	That's true.
	I like them not... That's true.
	This is like 30%.
	I'm not really joking.
	I kind of think...
	Maybe in Jordan Peterson's wild younger days, he did something.
	Jordan Peterson is 13 years older than Russell.
	That's it?
	I mean, it's possible still.
	Hard 13.
	- That's it?
	- Oh, I would've, really?
	- That's, yeah, yeah, Jordan's 62. - I mean, it's possible still.
	- Hard 13. - How old is Russell Brand?
	- He's, he's what, 49 now, I think?
	Sometimes he looks 15, sometimes he looks 70.
	I think I thought he was younger than that.
	I stand corrected, it must be a more distant relation.
	Second cousins.
	Russell is a year and a half younger than Alex Jones, believe it or not.
	He was so palpable!
	Okay, well then Russell needs to start selling supplements, because like, that should just be your advertisement.
	Hey, we're the same age and yet look at how I look.
	Look at me.
	That's a good point.
	Buy my krill oil, not Alex's.
	My micro oil is the good shit.
	Oh dear.
	Okay, but this question.
	Nudge it back a few seconds, please, if that's okay.
	Is that how this works?
	Do I get to pause things?
	Yeah, yeah, I can move it back.
	It's nothing.
	This question is nothing.
	It's fucking... He abandoned ship four times.
	I love it.
	It's okay.
	Matt Walsh, thank you so much for joining us today for Stay Free with Russell Brand.
	Hey Russell, thanks for having me.
	I really appreciate it.
	I watch a lot of your content and I wonder, I suppose that your films have been uniquely successful in this space.
	First, What Is A Woman really sort of broke out Imagine of the presumed demographic of, say, even Daily Wire, which is a sort of a growing demographic, let's face it, and perhaps did something successfully that had not been achieved up till then, presented arguments that had become taboo in a way that might be appealing to
	I understand is doing the same thing with regard to arguments around race.
	The dynamics around all of these subjects seem to be shifting radically at the moment.
	Do you consider your role Matt to pose questions, to offer conclusions, and yeah, let's just start there.
	What do you consider to be the function of the films?
	What's the function of the films?
	What's the point?
	The question eventually, she started with, I wonder, I'm curious, and then said nothing for five minutes, and then was like, God, okay, I have to give the question part.
	What's, what's, what, What's the function of these films?
	And how racist are they?
	Zero to a hundred.
	That was amazing.
	I should watch it more to feel better about my ADHD-ass self.
	Because he does have ADHD, and believe me, I sympathize.
	Unmedicated?
	Oh, completely.
	No, probably very medicated.
	He just says ice baths.
	Oh, that's right.
	He doesn't believe in that.
	But the point I want to make is, it's one thing to, and maybe this might be being defensive, and that's fine.
	I will acknowledge that I'm being defensive.
	It's one thing to make points in an interview That maybe your guests could also talk about.
	It's another thing to act like your question has a five-page minimum that you have to hit, and you've made the font really big, and you're going to say a bunch of words that are nothing, just to hear yourself say them, and then the question is...
	Like, four words that you could have just asked.
	And detached from everything else that, like, you used to lead up into it.
	Pretty much.
	Yeah.
	He does that surprisingly often.
	Like, for the sake of brevity with our show, I often have to, like, there'll be five minutes of him speaking and I have to edit out the first four.
	And I'm just like, just to save our audience the trouble of having to listen to the nothing that he says for four minutes before getting to the question.
	Should I make a TikTok that's shorter Russell Brand and is just like, You just cut to the actual question part and then I compare it to the, yeah, that'd be funny.
	There's plenty of content.
	Even in the volume of word.
	Yeah.
	The word count to question is, cause he's also a, like, he's a, um, he's a guider.
	Like he wants you to say a very specific thing and that's what all the load is.
	It is first and foremost, selfish baby behavior.
	And then second, Like, I want to sound smart, and then maybe a question that you need to answer very specifically for our shared purpose, as I understand it, is how he usually approaches these things.
	Interesting.
	Absolutely.
	It's not frustrating at all.
	It's fine.
	Let's hear what Matt Walsh thinks the films are for, what the actual function of them is.
	That's a big part of it is the post-question, especially the first film we did, What is a Woman, as you mentioned.
	And I mean, the question's right there in the title.
	The whole premise of the film is that in the world of gender ideology, there's, well, they really can't answer any questions at all about their ideology because it's all really quite fundamentally nonsensical.
	Dead eyes.
	But they can't answer this one basic foundational question, which is, what is a woman?
	What is a man?
	So if somebody says, identify as a woman, what do they mean by that?
	What are they identifying as?
	He's a cod who learned English with a beard.
	There's nothing there.
	Yeah!
	Nothing behind the eyes.
	Let me share a couple things just about these movies, because when we cover any movie-related things on Where There's Woke, or we did a guest spot on GAM.
	I did What Is A Woman somewhere.
	Yeah, but not with me.
	Oh, it was on SAO.
	And we did Lady Ballers with God Awful Movies.
	Oh yeah!
	So I usually go to worthitorwoke.com to hear, you know, like see what the right is thinking about each of the movies.
	That's how we make all our decisions about what our children want.
	Yeah, I wanted to see their take on this nonsense.
	And they loved Am I Racist?
	94 out of 100 is what they gave it.
	0% woke, 100% based, 100% based.
	And in the review, someone, this person who wrote it said... That always makes me think of like a Thanksgiving turkey.
	Don't you base, or based, based?
	Like, I'm like, oh, it's based.
	Yeah.
	It's not like squirting with my own juice.
	Lots of liquid.
	Yeah, it's not going to be dry.
	Yeah.
	It's good because it's, you know, surrounded by butter, right?
	That means it's good.
	Yeah.
	But in the review for Am I Racist, it says, That said, some viewers may find that Am I Racist isn't quite as impactful as its gender-affirming predecessor.
	In that film, three little words scorched the earth surrounding every radical crazy at which it was leveled.
	What is a woman?
	What is a woman?
	Four. - Three little words?
	Four.
	Oh boy.
	Oh my god.
	Am I racist?
	Yeah.
	I wish I was surprised.
	I wish I was surprised by that.
	I just had to share that.
	I was like, are you kidding me?
	Oh no, that's a jam.
	Delightful.
	Thank you.
	I like that he's having his sophomore album slump, the poor guy, you know?
	They're like, boy, he made the Sgt.
	Pepper of Racist, anti-woke bullshit in his first film, but can he keep it up?
	Even the people, you're paying to lie about it being good.
	Dylan has gone electric.
	Is it going to be as good?
	They're talking about it like it's like that.
	It's so funny.
	They can't even juice the numbers as much as they've juiced the numbers.
	The amount of free press and churches buying tickets or whatever the streaming version is.
	And it's still, like, sophomores, there's no excuse for this slump business, like... Yeah, it's, you know, can he pull off, like, you know, this specific kind of bigotry as well as this other one?
	I don't know!
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	I'm a multifaceted piece of shit, don't just...
	Pigeonhole me into transphobe.
	It's like George Costanza.
	You do your first movie as a transphobe and everybody wants your transphobe stuff.
	But I'm a racist!
	I went to Juilliard!
	- Guys, I'm a racist, I can do it.
	I went to Juilliard.
	I can be a racist. - Oh, don't even get him started talking about college.
	God damn.
	Oh dear.
	So, we're fairly familiar with Matt Walsh, but for anyone who doesn't know who Matt Walsh is, I recommend staying in that universe, but in case you want to stick with us.
	So, Matt Walsh, former talk radio guy who was part of Blaze Media and then joined the Daily Wire in 2017, you know, Ben Shapiro's outlet that seems to exist solely to put Gina Carano in things these days.
	Matt Walsh is known particularly for his anti-trans views.
	I know why.
	Even releasing an anti-trans children's book comparing trans kids to children pretending they're a walrus.
	And he's made frequent assertions that various forms of transgender healthcare are tantamount to child sexual abuse, child genital mutilation, and rape.
	Cool guy.
	He is also self-identified as a theocratic fascist.
	Okay.
	I believe you, Matt.
	At this point, refreshing.
	Thank you.
	Yep.
	Yeah.
	Well, he said he was doing it ironically because an opponent called him that, but now he wears it as a badge of honor.
	And I'm like, well, you're just being straight with us.
	And you know what?
	Okay.
	So yeah, this guy's been a guest on Tucker Carlson's show, Fox & Friends, Dr. Phil, that was harrowing, and a repeated guest on Joe Rogan.
	He's very vocally supported also by the likes of J.K.
	Rowling and Elon Musk, because of course.
	And quick rundown of some of his other views.
	He believed the trial of Kyle Rittenhouse was malicious prosecution.
	Yep.
	He's against reproductive rights, which is unsurprising as he's a devout Catholic.
	I'm like, that tracks.
	Okay.
	He's argued for banning pornography.
	Also tick in the Catholic box.
	Fair enough.
	Okay.
	He believes cannabis should not be legal and that it's in fact more dangerous than alcohol and tobacco and causes violence.
	Alright, I'd like to see some sources on that one please.
	He believes ozone depletion and acid rain are not and have never been serious problems.
	- Oh, we got reefer madness from that one here.
	He believes ozone depletion and acid rain are not and have never been serious problems.
	Okay.
	And, oh, here's a good one.
	So before the Club Q mass shooting in 2022, which was explicitly anti-LGBTQ+, in Motive and Target, Matt Walsh had said that opposing all age drag events was like a cancer, and that just like cancer, stopping it is not a gentle or painless process.
	And then, after the shooting, described critics of his rhetoric as soulless demons, evil to the core, and accused them of using the shooting to blackmail us into accepting the castration and sexualization of children, before then saying, if those on the left knew that the drag queen-child combination would lead to violent backlash, if it's causing this much chaos and violence, why do you insist on continuing to do it?
	So, capping it off with some victim blaming.
	Wow.
	Cool dude.
	Real, real cool guy.
	I have his opinions about mermaids.
	Would you like to hear what his opinion about mermaids is?
	Yes, please!
	Yes, give me the mermaids.
	So, when Halle Bailey was cast in the live-action version of The Little Mermaid, he said, from a scientific perspective... That's the best!
	It doesn't make a lot of sense to have someone with darker skin who lives deep in the ocean.
	She should be translucent instead.
	And she should be a blobfish when she comes out.
	She should be a Cronenbergian monster if you really want to be serious about science.
	The whole thing about the blobfish is the blobfish is actually really hot down there.
	In the right pressure, the blobfish is a handsome... People want to fuck that fish.
	When it comes out, no, the water pressure.
	So like the water pressure is so high, but down there, it's like, it's just, it's give me a name of a current model.
	And none of my references are timely.
	Who's hot?
	Who's a man who's hot?
	Quick.
	Joe.
	I don't know.
	I'm too old.
	I was going to say Sydney Sweeney.
	Is it Channing Tatum?
	Y'all Chang Tatum?
	Yeah, is he alive?
	Yeah, sure.
	He's still alive.
	He's still attractive.
	Yeah, he's still alive.
	Is this out of Aerospace Company?
	It's a regular Glenn what's-his-name in that movie.
	It's in every movie now.
	Glenn something.
	Oh, Glenn Powell.
	Glenn Powell.
	He's Glenn.
	Blobfish, Glenn Powell.
	Yes, he's popular now.
	Pops up.
	He's a blobfish.
	So I think that's how the Little Mermaid, scientifically accurate, that's how it should be.
	She should just explode when she reaches the top.
	- Gross.
	- She gets legs and also explodes.
	- I'm just thinking like the thing monster, but clear.
	- From a scientific perspective, it doesn't make much sense, the little mermaid.
	I'm glad scientist Matt Walsh is weighing in.
	When no one else does!
	Linguistically!
	Where are we?
	I gotta say- That one is a choice, I will say.
	Just getting into this.
	Matt Walsh is my- because we just went through all the stuff that he has famously and notoriously said.
	Not all.
	A smattering, right?
	A chunk of, yeah.
	Yeah, a bouquet.
	Because he's the meanest and that's part of his brand and I didn't know he was on Dr. Phil because then it could just be like a mean old white guy fight.
	That kind of sounds awesome to watch.
	Even James Lindsay was on Dr. Phil.
	He was on there to bag on trans people.
	That was his whole purpose of being on Dr. Phil, which is great.
	I mean, it feels like Matt Walsh is like the new Supreme trying to take over the reigning Supreme and was like stealing the essence of Dr. Phil.
	I haven't seen it, so I can't speak to the dynamic.
	But I mean, suffice to say, Matt Walsh is my least favorite of all these things because he's just so, like the venom is like, it's reliable.
	Yes.
	You just know what he's going to say is the most reprehensible garbage.
	He's very reminiscent of Candace Owens to me.
	They sit in a very similar place in my head.
	- Candace possibly with slightly more glee with the hate, but yeah, definitely some good old-fashioned danger.
	- Matt Walsh has the dead eyes still.
	He can't show glee because of- - He's not living much.
	- Yeah, yeah.
	- A soulless husk of a hateful demon.
	- Also he has six kids, so maybe he's just tired too.
	- He has six kids.
	He has six kids.
	He lives in Tennessee with his wife, Alyssa.
	They have six kids.
	And Alyssa has also written elsewhere that she has had seven miscarriages so far, seemingly with no plans to stop going through that or get on any form of contraception.
	Well, no, because he's Catholic.
	Exactly!
	I've had seven miscarriages.
	We mourned each child, remember them on their conception and due dates.
	Interesting.
	And have named each child, they are our children, not fetuses.
	Unquote.
	I'm like oh!
	Oh, okay.
	Don't you eat, bark, and wear a hair shirt, too?
	There are some choices going on in the Walsh household.
	That just seems like so much punishment to put yourself through, especially making sure you cannot get the adequate health care that you need as a pregnant person.
	That's so dangerous.
	I'm not going to make fun of any miscarriages, but it does suck if you're using them to try to make anti-abortion points.
	Our miscarriages have a social security number, a retirement account, Look at how much of a person it is.
	It's like, yeah, I mean, it's sad.
	It is sad, you know.
	It's incredibly sad.
	If you use it to like do bad things, then fuck you.
	It's difficult because you want to feel bad for the lady, you know, for going through that and being so indoctrinated into that to think that that's a good idea and that's the right thing to be doing, you know.
	But also, yeah, there's also being a hateful piece of shit off the back of it.
	So, you know, it's tough.
	It's tough.
	And to be clear as well, Matt Walsh is so bigoted and hateful that even the Catholic Church don't want to be associated with him.
	St.
	Francis Xavier College Church at St.
	Louis University cancelled a speech by him and they decided that Walsh's provocative positions on immigration, on communities of color, on Muslims, and on members of the LGBTQ community were in contradiction to Jesus' great commandment to love God and love our neighbor.
	And then in 2023, the University of San Diego, a private Catholic university, refused Walsh's permission to speak on campus for the reason that they regarded his opinions as grossly offensive.
	I'm like, you know what?
	If the Catholic church is coming in with you being grossly offensive, it might be time to reassess, you know?
	Yeah, for sure.
	Oh dear.
	Okay.
	So, To his first movie that they've brought up here, What is a Woman?
	So both of you have had to deal with this, both of you have looked into this before, and you've had to deal with this on SIO, is that right, Thomas?
	Yeah, back in the day I did that movie, and It's amazing how much they keep going and going and going with a question that is easily answerable, and they still, to this day, pretend no one's answered.
	It's like if I went around being like, hey, idiots, what's 5 plus 5?
	And someone's like, 10.
	You don't know?
	Is it 9?
	Is it 11?
	No, it's 10.
	It's 10.
	If they don't know, no one knows what it is.
	I'm making a whole movie.
	What's 5 plus 5?
	You don't know.
	What's 5?
	And then you're like, dude, they answered it pretty quickly.
	We keep telling you to tell us.
	Like he refuses to just... Yeah.
	It's a gaslighting perpetual motion machine.
	It is just, it's being able to just make something out of absolute, less than nothing.
	My favorite part of that is like, he will, he will ask, so he will kind of lure these experts into interviews under false pretenses and then ask them that question.
	And when they start to get like fishy where they're like, Hang on a second, why are you asking me that?
	That's supposed to be some gotcha moment, you know, rather than like, oh no, we're onto your bullshit.
	Well, the big, and not to give it away, although it's, you know, I don't want to, it's like the ending of The Sixth Sense.
	I don't want to give it away.
	The big ending of that movie is that even though he was pretending to be a dumb piece of shit the whole time, he actually knew all along what a woman is.
	And he goes and asks his wife at the end, who's, guess where she is when he asks her?
	Kitchen.
	Oh, good.
	I was going to let them guess because I thought you already knew.
	Sorry.
	I didn't know.
	I've never seen it.
	Oh, yeah.
	She's in the kitchen.
	I've never seen it.
	I was going to go laundry room if it wasn't the kitchen.
	Good guess.
	It was going to be kitchen, laundry room, or giving birth.
	Yeah.
	And she's like, in the worst fucking acting thing, she goes, it's an adult human female.
	Go get her ready for dinner or something like that.
	And then I just want to be like, okay, well then what is a female?
	You just did a different word.
	So how do you define a female then?
	They think that answers it.
	And they know that if they say, well, it's because of the chromosome, whatever, you can come up with a bunch of exceptions for that.
	So they don't want to do that because scientifically that's wrong.
	But they just think that adult human female is like the dead to rights answer to that.
	We have no response to that.
	It's so incredible because a good chunk of the film and the portion of the book is just him going up to people on the street and going, what is a woman?
	How would you answer that?
	What the fuck are you talking about?
	It'd be like if I came up to you and were like, what is cheese?
	What is a penguin?
	Ah, give me a second and maybe I'll come up with a definition.
	Like if it were me walking down the street and I was accosted like that, I would just be like, no thanks.
	I'm like, keep walking.
	Like Lydia and I are just like, that's not a conversation I'm having.
	Someone who wouldn't talk to you.
	Bye.
	Right.
	But like, this just reminded me of one of the best Joe Biden moments in the entire world that I can't, I'm so, it's just so perfect Joe Biden when that person tried to ask him at the press conference, how many genders are there?
	How many genders are there?
	And he goes, there's at least three.
	Like, totally straight up.
	He's like, there's at least two that gets out of it.
	Next question.
	Yeah.
	I love it.
	Like, he doesn't understand it.
	Like, clearly he doesn't understand it.
	But he's supportive and is like, yes, at least three.
	I'm on board, though.
	Yeah, I'm on board.
	Sure, man.
	What is a woman?
	I don't know.
	Whatever.
	If someone says they're a woman, they're a woman.
	Who cares?
	If we're talking about opinions, let's be real about talking about personal anecdotal opinions, right?
	Like, that's not, do you want to be science?
	Do you need science?
	Do you need your blobfishification to make this work?
	Are we talking about people's lived experience?
	Oh, and like history and like cultural anthropology?
	No, we don't need to do that.
	Because also when they get in any of these conversations with someone with any amount of information, they just have to start, I don't know, yelling 1776 or whatever gets them out of it, you know?
	Yeah, pretty much.
	And then selectively edit around any good points that anyone ever makes, which is the entire deal of Matt Walsh's filmmaking credentials.
	It's very much, very much.
	So let's get to him telling us about his new movie, Am I Racist?
	And they can't answer that question.
	And so really the whole movie is just me.
	I ask a lot of other questions, but every interview comes down to that one question with the people that are... And talking to people that are, you know, not just... We talked to some people that are just walking in the street, but we're also talking to the supposed experts in this field and kind of letting the house of cards fall apart.
	In the new film, Am I Racist?, there's a question in the title, but it's not the same kind of question.
	What is a woman is a question that the gender ideologues don't want to answer, they're afraid of.
	Am I racist is a question that the racial ideologues, the race baiters and the DEI grifters, they love to answer that question.
	They're not afraid of telling me that I'm racist.
	So it's a bit different in that that's kind of the question that starts me on this journey of self-discovery, shall we say, in the film, where I get into the world of anti-racism, race grifting, DEI.
	And one of the real differences between the two movies is that in What Is A Woman, I kind of maintain a skeptical attitude Sort of a blank slate through the whole movie.
	I don't really have an opinion myself until the very end.
	Really?
	In this one, we decided, we flipped it on its head a little bit, in that rather than being skeptical, I'm going to go into this and I'll just believe whatever they tell me.
	And at least sort of, I'll play as though I'm believing everything they tell me.
	And we'll go down the rabbit hole.
	We'll kind of let them guide me.
	So we talk to the first person.
	I ask them all the questions.
	She gives us the answers.
	I say, well, where do I go next?
	If I believe it, I'm into it.
	What do I do next?
	And she tells me.
	And then we kind of just follow.
	We let them drag us on this journey so that we can reveal by the end of it where it leads you if you take these ideas seriously.
	Where it leads you, go about your day, dude.
	It doesn't lead you anywhere.
	Also lies!
	It's so hard for me to listen to them when these guys lie!
	Yeah, yeah.
	It's a lot.
	It's a lot.
	Be better at lying!
	Him being bad at lying is actually one of the central problems with the film, in that with his terrible disguise and everything, people just keep recognizing him.
	They're like, oh, you're Matt Walsh.
	You're bad at this.
	There was actually a police report filed by some of the people that were asked to come on the film.
	Really?
	Yeah, they were like, we don't feel safe.
	I wouldn't say feel safe with that guy around my children.
	So what happened there, right?
	It's like, this film is especially guilty of it, but what is a woman also did this?
	So essentially near the beginning of the movie, it features Matt and a support group focusing on white guilt, right?
	And you might be thinking like, huh, That sounds like a weird support group.
	I've never heard of one of those.
	Yeah, I've never heard of that.
	You'd be right in thinking that that's a little strange because the support group itself was put together and orchestrated by Matt Walsh and his crew.
	Yeah, I was going to say, I tried to find this when I was reading about him joining the support group.
	I was like, okay, let me find one.
	Look at how dumb this thing I made up is!
	Yeah, I was trying to find it.
	I was like, okay, I was trying all these different words.
	I was like, um, yeah, white guilt, like, um, hate that I'm white, support group, like just a bunch of different things.
	Couldn't find anything.
	Yeah, no, it's, it's the entire thing was put together and orchestrated by Matt Walsh and it's presented as this undercover situation.
	I went undercover on my own film set.
	Discover what was going on there.
	They put the whole thing together, lied to get everyone there to participate, had everyone sign NDAs and hand over their phones prior to being filmed.
	And after a little bit, everyone caught on that it was Matt Walsh.
	And yeah, one lady feared enough for her safety to call the police after getting her phone back.
	And then there's a specific line during the discourse where Matt's trying to say, Hey, I'm just trying to, Just trying to be honest and undergo a journey here and the lady... Yeah, that's a good faith thing to do.
	Sure, right?
	Orchestrate a kidnapping of people.
	Bully.
	Exactly.
	False pretenses to make a stupid point.
	Well, this is what the lady who was supposed to be running it says, right?
	She says, you know, if that was the case, you wouldn't have lied to us about your name.
	He was going by Stephen at this point.
	And you wouldn't have lied to get us here.
	And What he takes from that is, ah, so you're saying I need a better disguise.
	I'm like, no, Matt, that's not what we're saying, not at all.
	Not critiquing your ability to kidnap effectively and giving you notes.
	No, that's not the issue.
	And so what then happens is a scene of Matt Walsh in a bathroom putting on a grandma ponytail wig, slightly more beard than usual and a tweed jacket.
	You know, this guy really loves doing dress up.
	Have you noticed that?
	Yeah.
	Lady ballers, awesome.
	Hey, come over to our side.
	I'm not going to shame you for that, Matt.
	But you really seem to like dressing up as different things.
	We have gay people over here.
	You will look so much better.
	Oh my God, your wig will actually fit.
	Yeah.
	He really got into his character of lady ballers.
	He has a wig, he has a thing.
	Actually, lady ballers is terrible.
	Don't get this wrong.
	It's terrible.
	He's, like, one of the better parts of it.
	And I think it's because he really likes dressing up and getting into character.
	Matt, I think maybe examine this about yourself.
	Look how dead his eyes are here.
	He's in his normal, like, he's in his regular Matt Walsh man suit.
	Maybe that's not what he wants to be wearing right now.
	I can say, like, in Lady Boss, he's, like, alive in that movie.
	He's alive.
	His skin looks good.
	He's bright.
	And what's he need?
	Yes, he needs, like, he needs a lace front dusty sunset.
	Styled, Wigs and Grace.
	I think there's something there.
	A little bit of lipstick, some eyeshadow.
	I'm not gonna lie, I think there's something there.
	Russell knows.
	He looks miserable right now.
	He's like, ugh, gotta wear this stupid conservative getup.
	Flannel.
	Ugh, flannel.
	Yeah, I wanna be fabulous.
	Yeah, we've got it.
	Like 90% of the time, he's cosplaying as a repressed Catholic, and that's why he's so fucking miserable.
	Or a woman, or a, like, he likes?
	Okay, I got a new theory about that.
	Yeah, embrace it, Matt.
	Yeah, yeah.
	You're a Bugs Bunny type.
	And that's when you're most effective.
	Yeah, fully embrace it!
	So he gets all dressed up anyway and then wanders around telling people that he's DEI certified now.
	What's that?
	You think I should dress like a woman for this next one?
	Yeah, definitely.
	The most effective disguise would be bottoming as a woman and not saying anything about it.
	We're gonna do an in-depth investigation into Grindelwald.
	It's like the improv troupe that gets nothing but awful suggestions like, oh, dress like a lady, again.
	Well, fortunately, I have all this costume.
	It's a big wardrobe that he brings with him.
	Thank you.
	A rack that just flings behind him.
	Yeah, 100%.
	Glitter shooting out of everywhere.
	Yes.
	Hey boys, I'm ready to go.
	Yeah, he then spends the rest of the film introducing himself to people as DEI certified, which, fascinating choice.
	As though that's supposed to mean something.
	He did an online course.
	He did an online diversity, equity and inclusion course and now considers himself DEI certified.
	At least it's also stupid.
	Certifications for people to be DEI certified?
	It's just gonna be like a friggin' Corsair.
	It's gonna be like an online, a MOOC thing.
	It's just, that's all it's gonna be, you know?
	But like, is there a real thing that he's, like, making fun of?
	No, he made it up!
	Of course he made it up!
	Again, look at how dumb this thing I made up is, isn't a good argument.
	Like, yeah, yeah, pretty much.
	Then how do they make so much money doing it over and over?
	That's cause they really do!
	Yeah, maybe a little bit of that.
	He interviews discredited anti-racism academic Robin D'Angelo, who is currently under investigation for plagiarizing work from academics of color.
	I've never been a fan.
	I've always thought that book was a little... but I didn't know.
	I missed this.
	This is huge.
	It's the JD Vantification.
	There were people that were like, I'm gonna sit that one out.
	That is really fascinating.
	And Robyn D'Angelo is going through the same kind of like... Yeah, yeah.
	So he interviewed her anyway and tricked her into paying reparations of $30 to his producer, who is a black man.
	So it's not a good time to be Robyn D'Angelo.
	He also has a conversation with another expert, Kate Slater.
	They stole that bit, by the way.
	That's a bit from Channel 5, they already do that.
	Sincerely.
	In her statement after it, though, she said that she was so unsettled by the way that he manipulated that scene that she had emailed the contact person.
	I think that is part of it, that she wanted to get out of that.
	They paid her $15,000.
	They paid $15,000 for her to pay $30,000?
	They paid $15,000 for her to pay $30,000?
	Yeah.
	Is that what just happened?
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	And so she emailed the contact person and she was like, "I think people are going to get the wrong idea about what reparations are because of that scene and I'm really not comfortable with it." And the contact person was like, "Don't worry, we'll take care of it.
	We're still going to edit things, et cetera, et cetera." And then stopped responding to emails ever since.
	Of course.
	Just trashy garbage people all around.
	Fantastic.
	Oh dear.
	He has another conversation with Kate Slater who wrote The Anti-Racist Roadmap.
	Another white lady.
	And she spends time complaining about how her daughter keeps gravitating towards the white Disney princesses and not the princesses of color.
	And Matt Walsh says, well, you should teach her about it.
	And Kate Slater is like, well, I frequently lecture my daughter that she should choose the princesses of color.
	And there's a theme.
	There's a theme here.
	You know, Matt, if you want to team up and criticize white ladies doing anti-racism badly, that's fine.
	That doesn't sound good with that.
	These people deserve to be made fun of.
	That's fine.
	Yeah.
	Hey, I'm not a scholar, but don't lecture your kids to choose the black princess.
	That's nothing.
	I'm sorry.
	Yeah, that's the wrong lesson.
	What we need to do is make sure there are plenty of princesses of all races, because representation is really important.
	But you don't need to, on an individual level, try to force your kids to choose what's stupid.
	Yeah, yeah, and the kicker is, like, these people might very well have made some terrific points to Matt Walsh in the actual interviews.
	That's the thing, like, yeah, I shouldn't be too critical because you don't know.
	Right.
	What's left on the cutting room floor, right?
	I'm sure you know.
	You could edit anything into the stupidest thing in the world very easily.
	Like, it's not hard at all.
	Exactly, exactly.
	There is now a dick butt floating across your screen for this exact reason, right?
	Anything could happen, anything.
	Yeah, and also you can do bad things, too.
	Yeah, exactly.
	Now there's dickpots everywhere.
	How did this happen?
	But like, yeah, they might have done a really great job of outlining that the United States is racist by design and that the systems and institutions within are set up specifically to benefit the white man and fuck everyone else.
	It's possible that Kate Slater did that in her interview, but if she did, we'll never get to see it.
	And instead, I'm forced to watch her tie herself in knots over how she wants her daughter to love Moana, but also not dress up as Moana, because that would be appropriation.
	You know, and it's this whole thing.
	And the film itself is an exercise in very intentionally missing the forest for the trees, with the aim of pretending that systemic racism isn't a problem in the United States.
	Not for nothing, let your white child dress up as Moana.
	It's fine.
	I don't go for that.
	Like, there's a lot of, you know, we have small children.
	There's a lot of problematic things that come out of their mouths just because they know nothing.
	And they're just like, look at that person who's a color.
	And you're like, that's, don't do that.
	They don't know anything.
	But one thing that I'm not going to do is tell them they can't dress up like their favorite fucking Disney character because of some racial thing that doesn't, that's not it.
	Whatever activism is, whatever anti-racism is, it's not that.
	We're also not busting out the makeup to like change the color of their skin.
	Don't do that!
	You can be sensible about this, like it's not that hard.
	One of the examples of the problematic kind of behavior is the white lady that wants to dress up as Jasmine and then force all of her family to also dress up with her and then bust out the makeup, maybe pay somebody from Glam Squad to really throw down.
	You have invested too much in the wrong thing.
	The examples that I think that we, on the sincere side, would be like, no, see, that's not cool.
	Forcing it.
	That's bad.
	But yeah, your kid just likes Moana.
	I would also say I wouldn't be comfortable dressing up as Moana as an adult.
	But for a kid, who cares?
	They can pretend to be whatever they want.
	Yeah, the rules are absolutely different.
	And that's the thing about being on the woke left.
	The minute any adult ever yelled at my seven-year-old for dressing like something she likes, I will sell them the fuck off.
	Like, fuck you.
	That's not the right thing to do.
	If you think that my seven-year-old who knows nothing can't do that, then you're wrong.
	Like, you just are.
	But obviously there are better and worse ways.
	If we're doing fucking blackface to dress up as Disney characters, as adults, we're not doing that.
	Very sensible.
	Like it's like not that hard to just be reasonable about these things.
	Right.
	And then all these people want to do is find someone who yelled at them in a tweet and take that as like the whole left.
	And it's like, people are wrong.
	People are wrong on every side of everything.
	All the signs.
	This is it.
	Well, we should all quit.
	That's it.
	No, no.
	You can find examples of people who are wrong on any side.
	Of course!
	And Matt Walsh is very specifically cherry picking these people and forcing them into these extraordinary situations to try and paint that as the picture of the entire of diversity, equity and inclusion as a whole thing.
	And that's all it is.
	It's this crazy, silly stuff.
	It's not real.
	I just want to hear one more nonsense rambling question.
	Oh God.
	It is important to note as well that the film also features Matt Walsh leading a campaign to rename the George Washington Monument the George Floyd Monument and to also paint it black and make it 30% bigger.
	It's a dick joke, you see.
	Hilarious.
	Hilarious dick joke.
	So gross.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	Perfect.
	Right, so the next clip I've got is actually just Matt Walsh.
	Do you want me to skip to a Russell question?
	Yeah, and the joke is racism.
	The joke isn't like, oh, there's a funny joke that involves race.
	It's like, no, it's just like racial tropes.
	Like, your punchline can't be, racial trope!
	Haha!
	That's just racism.
	Sorry.
	On race, I think that, I don't know if the DEI stuff has peaked.
	I think it will peak.
	I think it's reaching a peak.
	I think one of the things that indicates that it's getting to a peak is the fact that... I gotta buy stock in DEI.
	Okay.
	Everybody knows the term DEI.
	No, you gotta sell it.
	Well, he's saying there's another peak though, so I think I can... I should diversify though.
	I should buy like some of the next thing that they hate.
	I don't have a study showing this.
	Maybe they've been done, but I think that if you get a hundred people in the room and you say the phrase DEI to them, like 98 of them will have heard of it and almost all of that 98 will kind of Roll their eyes.
	They'll have heard of it.
	It has a negative connotation for them.
	Kind of similar to what happened with CRT a couple of years before that, where nobody had heard of critical race theory, and then all of a sudden everyone had heard of it, and most people recognized it as a bad thing.
	And I think a similar thing is happening with DEI.
	Now, the only problem, of course, is that when we get to the point where DEI is roundly condemned by almost everybody, Does it just go away?
	Does the ideology go away?
	No, any more than CRT did go away.
	Now they look for a way to rebrand it.
	They take these same ideas and they look for new packaging.
	So you always have to be able to look at what's the new packaging for these same ideas that these race grifters have really been pushing for decades.
	Race grifters have been pushing it for decades.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Everybody thinks DEI is bad.
	I'm not supposed to mean something.
	All right.
	He's right that him and the alt-right have done a terrific job of poisoning the acronym.
	Christopher Rufo is very effectively evil.
	I'm not going to take that away from him.
	He's very good at being evil and doing evil things.
	And he's good at finding things that people are going to naturally be receptive to and hate, and then blowing them up.
	He's good at that.
	He is singularly skilled.
	It has been for a long time.
	If you took those same 100 people and instead asked them how they feel about the concept of diversity, equity and inclusion.
	Yeah, and don't use scary words and just say, hey, I think that if candidates are kind of equal, but one is of a diverse background that's not represented at all in your company and the other is not, like as a tiebreaker, should you maybe consider that?
	Yeah, sure.
	Probably.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	I don't think they would really have a problem with that.
	I don't know.
	The calling it D.E.I.
	is very similar to like, okay, when you say the words, boy, it sure means something different.
	The same thing with like, oh, like demonizing Antifa.
	Yeah.
	What's the whole word?
	What's the whole word?
	Another perfect example is, and then people make too big of a deal about this, and I'm glad it's not relevant right now, but everyone, when they were mad about Hillary and they're mad about Joe Biden, they're always like, look, a generic Democrat pulls so much better.
	And you're like, yeah.
	That's like saying generically these ideas pull better, and then when you use the words that the right and Rufo have made scary, then all of a sudden it pulls worse.
	That's the same thing.
	When they have a person like Joe Biden or Hillary, whoever, to make a whole deal about and do fake things about and scare you about, they're going to respond worse to that than just generic Democrats.
	The same thing with this.
	If you just give them the ideas, they're like, well, that seems reasonable.
	Yeah.
	But what about if it's D-E-I?
	Oh, that's evil.
	I heard that was evil.
	Or as Elon says, D-I-E.
	Yeah, well, even on the poster for the movie, it's a comedy to DEI for, right?
	That's the tagline for it.
	Oh, boy.
	Oh, boy.
	I actually like that.
	We'll have one more clip so he's got a little bit of Russell.
	I actually miss him now.
	After we're talking about this evil piece of shit, I'm like, can you just go back to totally undecipherable?
	I like that better.
	Yeah, I want incompetent rather than evil.
	Yeah, give me that please.
	Yeah, so he asked in a brambly fashion whether the DEI ideology has any legitimacy to it, right, whether there are any arguments of substance underneath any of it, and Matt Walsh has something of a predictable answer.
	So, I wonder... I wonder where the legitimacy... I wonder from where the legitimacy of these initiatives... I wonder something that's going to come out of my mouth about five minutes from now.
	I wonder that.
	To give you a very short sketch or a set of ideas I'd love to hear your thoughts on.
	When you pass through some normal country town in Britain and see it adorned with rainbow flags and I bet similar things happen in your country too, you wonder who is this for?
	Who is this serving?
	Would you say that it's comparable even to seeing the stars and stripes in your nation or Union Jack in mine?
	Do you think that what's being offered is that if you live under what would be commonly termed the patriarchy, And under a sort of presumed nationalist rubric, you are having imposed upon you a set of ideas that are somehow marginalising, are somehow repressive, and that there is some requirement for a pushback.
	I suppose now I'm starting to understand my question is, is there legitimacy at all to DEI arguments or conversations around gender or is there some legitimacy and if so what is it and how could it be bought into the culture in a way that didn't feel so propagandist and exploitative and untrustworthy?
	No, I don't think, yeah, it's an interesting thought.
	So, a few things.
	Well, to answer your question most directly, I don't think the kind of DEI ideology, DEI policies that are pushed through, you know, in corporate America and in government and in academia, I don't think there's any legitimacy to those at all.
	I think they're just like, they're fundamentally poisonous and toxic.
	Cool.
	Thanks.
	Yeah.
	Name one.
	Name one and what it is.
	Yeah.
	I like, I honestly, I give Russell Brand credit there a little bit.
	Like he has these thoughts that are like from when he used to not suck a little bit.
	And then he's like, oh, but then I am doing this whole thing now.
	So yeah.
	That's why it takes so long to get to the question.
	That's right.
	Yeah.
	It goes through the like, I used to have thoughts that aren't horrible, and like, but like... But I need to frame it this way, so I have to get there somehow.
	Yeah, but horrible, I guess, right?
	Well, we've been tracking, that's exactly what we've been tracking on the show, is like, he is trying to fit his much more like palatable, woo-woo kind of like, you know, recovery groove.
	And it's very awkward.
	So he's had to, that's the one piece of hard work that we are seeing happen consistently in his show, is he is trying to shoehorn, not having a great time, by the way.
	It's not going well.
	No.
	Terrible time.
	But he's trying to shoehorn these values into the kind of person he wanted to see himself as.
	Through his entire career and who he wants to represent himself as, because yeah, it's all like, it's all marketing, just like with the generic, you know, the generic polling better than specific.
	It's all marketing.
	So he's trying to like adjust his marketing to make himself be this American appealing thing, which is like, I'd say it's a mixed bag as to how it's going, but we're watching him do that in real time.
	It's interesting to watch him try and thread the needle, you know, because Sometimes he's successful and sometimes he's not.
	He was pretty solid in the Tucker interview.
	Yeah, but beneath all that extra language, superfluous language, and sometimes incorrectly used language, is actually a decent point that Matt Walsh has to ignore, which is, hey, everybody has to have the fucking American flag around them all the time, and they might argue that that's kind of an indoctrination.
	That's indoctrination to that system and imperialism and all that.
	Is some pushback in the form of, like, pride flags, is that the same?
	You know, like, that's kind of the morsels of a point, and then he realizes, like, oh, this, I can't.
	And then he's like, but, like, but they need to do it less shitty, you know?
	He's like, yeah, there's some form that isn't as horrible as the form we're seeing now of this DEI and the gay rights and all that.
	And it's like, yeah, he starts there and then he gets there, yeah.
	You still blame the victim while seeming sensitive.
	Yeah, it's it's pretty remarkable like the difference in in here.
	It's very much a hangover of who he was 10 years ago You know and we we covered the interview he did with Jeremy Paxman back in like 2013 and just the difference in human being You know and it's it's absolutely insane You know some Someone passionate who cared about all these things and injustice and all of this other stuff.
	But now, hey, he's making some money.
	So, so different story.
	Well, yeah.
	It was marketable, right?
	Yeah.
	I'm curious what your theory is.
	Well, maybe.
	Yeah.
	Maybe we should we should have you guys on to discuss your grand theory of brands that you probably have already done at length.
	Because I want to know, is it the accusations against him?
	Because that's obviously, for many men, the reason that they do this.
	I don't know the timeline.
	But that's really late in his term.
	That's the thing.
	But think about Dershowitz.
	- And we could talk about this at length another time. - I'd rather not.
	- Yeah, yeah. - Dershowitz started going shitty pretty, like I think they see it in the distance.
	You know, they see me too.
	- Well, they did it.
	So they know what's coming.
	- They see me too.
	Well, yeah, no, they know that, but they know that for a while it didn't matter.
	They're like, oh, there's no consequences for anything.
	There's no accountability, yeah.
	And then Me Too comes in, and they're like... Even before all these details came out, they start to realize, like, ugh, I better go to the side that doesn't care if I do.
	So if it does come out, I'm insulated now.
	But I haven't delved that deep into Russell Brand, so I will be curious at some point to hear more about this transformation that he's made.
	Yeah, we'd love to.
	We'd love to come on.
	I love the... And it is interesting, as far as just the timing of it is.
	Yeah, it's... I mean, and the timing of it, I think, it's... I feel like it's an evil... Like, it's a money versus, like, ego...
	The thing is, is we can't, we don't have a window into these men's minds at the end of the day.
	So it is a little tricky to speculate as much as we kind of have to, but I feel like there are nuggets that we can kind of like thread together and make into a cohesive.
	Yeah.
	Right.
	Well, but we still can't make those assumptions for the same time.
	Like we can see the results of their behavior.
	And that's, I think the most important thing is like, well, this is how, this is still the harm that you're causing now.
	So...
	Yeah.
	At what point does it matter how you feel if this is the result of what you're doing?
	Oh yeah, we do that.
	We have that discussion all the time on Dub to Dub.
	It's like, does it matter?
	I still care.
	I am curious if people really believe these things, but ultimately it doesn't really matter.
	It's about what you say and do.
	But just personally, I get curious about that.
	And often I run into like, I can't put myself in the mindset sometimes of a piece of shit.
	I try.
	Because I would look at Russell Brand and be like, you have enough money.
	What do you need money for?
	But it's like, I guess some people are just like, no, I bet more money would be awesome.
	Well, it feels a little validating that you're identifying this thing.
	When you're like, well, but he sounds better.
	And that's like, we know.
	Yeah, that's like why we're here is because you kind of have to dig into the timeline and how he presents because I think that he is singularly very dangerous on the whole as to how well he can adapt these like, like Matt Walsh is not winning people over that don't already feel the way that he feels.
	But Russell absolutely- Not unless he gets in costume, baby!
	I'm so sad that's not what he's really doing.
	I'm really hoping the next- We're overdue.
	Yes.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	You guys have to leave us.
	Thank you so much for coming on.
	Thank you for having us.
	Everyone needs to go check out Where There's Woke and Opening Arguments.
	Congratulations again on having that back, by the way.
	Thank you.
	And serious inquiries only, and dear old dads, am I missing any?
	That's it.
	Yeah, I mean, we have gavel gavel still behind the page.
	Don't worry about that.
	But no, Where There's Woke is where we do a lot of stuff that's very relevant and similar to what you guys are doing, or at least in that world, you know.
	So I can't wait to compare notes again sometime.
	Absolutely, and Dear Old Dads has Eli as well, who has been on this show, too.
	It's my favorite show.
	Yeah, I love Dear Old Dads.
	It's so fun.
	I'm an Eli fan.
	It's like a make-a-wish thing for me, to get to be on a podcast with him.
	It really is.
	I'm the co-host on WTW, but those are your favorite co-hosts.
	Oh, for sure, yeah.
	I get it, it's fine.
	We don't need to rank anything.
	We can like everyone for different reasons.
	We do need to rank, I think, and Eli has me beat, and it's fine, and I understand, and I take what time I can get from their relationship.
	However you need to process that.
	Who would be on the bottom if Eli was here?
	This is my question, but I'm gonna leave it.
	I think he would just drop a ton of bricks.
	That's not a question to me.
	With all due respect and love, I think it's very clear.
	Like, I'm here for it.
	Yes, yes.
	I'm here for it, yes ma'am.
	Thank you so much.
	Thank you so much, this was a real pleasure.
	Thank you guys.
	Okay, so we're going to carry this ball home.
	And where we left off was that diversity, equity and inclusion is fundamentally poisonous and toxic and has no legitimacy whatsoever.
	Thanks very much, Matt Walsh.
	And in the interest of hearing him out, let's hear why he thinks DEI is fundamentally poisonous and toxic.
	Because they're all based in an idea of Racism, the way that they would define racism, if they were to define it honestly, what they actually think, they would say that white people are inherently racist and that only white people can be racist because racism is a white construct.
	This is what they believe.
	This is what DEI is grounded in.
	And everything kind of revolves around that idea.
	And so I say that there's no legitimacy to it.
	Now, Could there be legitimacy and could it be worthwhile to talk about race broadly and the experiences of people of different races?
	Sure.
	I mean, but as you point out, I think if you go to a lot of these communities that would be condemned as being bastions of bigotry, You'll find there that they talk about race.
	They have no problem with it.
	They just don't have the hangups about it.
	In fact, in the movie, I don't want to give any spoilers away, but one of the places that I go in the film is in the south to a biker bar that has Confederate flags hanging on the walls.
	And it's just nothing but a bunch of, you know, blue collar, white bikers with Confederate flag, you know, on the wall and tattoos, some of them.
	And of course, we're playing it for laughs a little bit, because I'm throwing all these far-left ideas at them just to see how they react to it.
	But then when we get down to actually talking about race issues, they have really normal things to say.
	They say, hey, look, we all believe the same, and I don't care if you're black or white.
	It doesn't matter.
	It's fine.
	That's basically their idea.
	You have to go into these kind of White, liberal, urban areas to find the places where, when you bring up race, there's this silence that falls over the room and everybody gets really tense and awkward about it.
	I mean, they get tense and awkward around Matt Walsh.
	But I feel like that's a YP that's happening there.
	Does he only talk to white people in the whole thing?
	Um, I would say maybe about 10-15 minutes of it is dedicated to hearing from people of colour.
	And that's it.
	And the other, you know, hour and a half or whatever is yell white people.
	Does he ask him the same questions that he asks white people?
	To people of colour?
	Does he ask the same questions?
	Or are they different?
	Yeah, differently from what I could see.
	I haven't seen the whole thing, obviously.
	I knew the answer to that question.
	Yeah, that was just instructive.
	Because that's the thing, he made a movie called Am I Racist?
	And the answer is, oh no, honey, you're perfect.
	When really, what he's saying is like, am I racist?
	Yeah, our whole society has been made that way.
	And it looks different for everyone.
	That's just, it's very simple.
	And he's making it, this is gross.
	This is gross.
	It is.
	The biker bar that he mentioned, like he keeps going up to people and asking them things like, well, how do you decenter your whiteness?
	You know, while in his costume of the granny wig and all of this other stuff.
	Right.
	And they're all visibly confused because he's being an obtuse little shit.
	And when he goes to this biker bar, like from all accounts, it does seem like the bike is in question.
	don't appear to have any particular ill will towards the non-whites, or at least not from any presentation given in the movie.
	A bunch of them are also wearing the Confederate flag, and it's draped about the place in the bar.
	And Matt Walsh wants the conclusion of this to be that all racism doesn't exist, and really it never did, really, whereas the more sane and rational conclusion is These people have, for whatever reason, decoupled the concept of the Confederate flag and slavery.
	And I've no interest in trying to prove that these bikers are racist.
	I don't have evidence for that at present.
	They might be perfectly fine.
	They might also be completely bigoted.
	Who the fuck knows?
	But the symbol they're wearing, whether they're acutely aware of it or not, is a symbol of racism and slavery and is a symbolic threat to people of color.
	Um, regardless of their own personal views.
	I'm like, yeah, doesn't, doesn't really matter whether they're particularly like they're wearing a symbol of fucking hang black people.
	That's, you know, maybe let's not.
	Explicitly.
	Exactly.
	Maybe let's not think that that's okay.
	Um, I also, yeah.
	And so what they say, who get like, they're going to say the thing that they're comfortable with.
	That's not the problem, especially when DEI is supposed to, hopefully, maybe address systemic racism.
	But if he tried to understand the concept, then his argument would fall apart.
	Yeah, exactly.
	It's intentionally obtuse.
	And also, you know, you've got all these people who know they all know they're being filmed.
	They've all signed waivers and whatever else.
	So they're not going to be like, yeah, I hate the n-words.
	They're not just going to suddenly do that.
	The BBC interviewing old ladies, as I have come to see.
	So there is a different culture of what you say to the news.
	Indeed.
	Yes, indeed.
	Indeed.
	Yes.
	Over here, we're a little bit more free.
	Yeah, I do want to address what he said there about DEI defining racism as all white people being inherently racist.
	And I know we all know this, but that's not the case.
	The conversation around white guilt is much better framed as white privilege because the systems in the US and the UK, from economics to law to politics, are all designed to prop up and benefit the whites, particularly the white men.
	And even more so the rich white men.
	And Matt Walsh seems to earn at least $100,000 a month for being a mediocre white man.
	And so it's not terribly surprising he doesn't want anyone examining these systems too closely.
	But the reality is we do need to check and examine our own privileges if we're to even start to reform some of these systems, let alone begin down the path of pursuing restorative justice.
	Right?
	That's exactly what I'm saying.
	Yeah.
	Am I racist?
	Were you born now?
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	We all are.
	We all are.
	That's like the society that we were born into that we live in.
	There are biases that we grow up with that we don't even have any control over.
	We are in the society.
	So it shouldn't even be a question.
	Yeah.
	We are.
	Now deal with it.
	Every single one of us has stuff that is going to be in there unchecked, and it is on us to look at that and try and check it as best we can.
	That's why the name of the movie is even like, okay, well, you've already defeated your point that you think you're making.
	Am I a racist?
	Yeah, no.
	Don't ask that.
	It's useless.
	Yes, and also him more so than a lot of people as well.
	It's like, yes, oh no, you're definitely racist.
	The answer to that question is definitely yes for so many reasons, but for you specifically, double yes, triple yes, Matt Walsh.
	Well, publicly and for money, which is why you are not the person to ask the question also.
	Come on.
	Oh yeah, that's crazy.
	- Obviously, non-whites can also be racist.
	He tried to assert that only white people can be racist.
	No, non-whites can also be racist.
	Like, ask white Western people living in Japan and it's a common complaint over there, for instance, that they experience various forms of it on a regular basis.
	Really interesting.
	Of course, where it gets more complicated is where colonialism comes into it.
	If, say, a native brown populace of a country have been given a reason not to trust or particularly like the white man, and maybe treat white folks with a bit of skepticism because of it, which, you know, most of history seems to go downhill with the phrase, and then the white man came, you know?
	So I'm like, Eh, maybe it's nuanced in some areas, you know?
	Maybe, yeah, maybe that's... Well, yeah, then it's not racist.
	That's the thing, it's like... Well, yeah, exactly, right?
	It's a different thing going on.
	That's why this is such a useless question.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, yeah.
	What is a woman?
	Hmm, hmm, hmm, hmm.
	He's full of great questions, this dude.
	Anyway, speaking of white guilt and all this good stuff, Matt Walsh has an explanation as to what white guilt actually is.
	I can't believe that you're walking around every day actually feeling this burden of guilt just because of the color of your skin.
	And I've thought a lot about that, this kind of white guilt that these people seem to actually feel.
	Might be some virtue signaling involved, but I think that there's something real underneath it.
	I think they do feel the guilt, and I think that there's kind of a spiritual explanation.
	If I was to look at it through a Christian lens as a Christian, You know, everybody has guilt.
	We all feel guilt because we are all sinners and we all are members of a fallen species, the human race.
	And so we all have guilt.
	But if you're a member of, let's say, a traditional religion, the religion comes to you and gives you a way to understand that guilt, gives you a framework for understanding it and also something to do with it and about it.
	But if you don't have religion, you still experience the guilt because you're still a person.
	You're still a fallen human being.
	But you don't know what to do with it.
	You don't know what it means.
	You don't know where it's coming from.
	And then you have these race grifters who come along and they say, OK, well, I'll tell you, whitey, why you're feeling all that guilt.
	It's because you're white.
	And here's what you can do about it.
	But by the way, even after you do those things, you'll still be white.
	So you'll still be just as guilty.
	And so you will never actually be free of the guilt.
	Atonement, there's none of that in the end for these people.
	That's the great tragedy of it, I think.
	I think that's an excellent framing, looking at it from a spiritual perspective, where the function of spirituality becomes prevalent.
	And it is, of course, Easy to dismiss a spiritual purview as being somehow impractical and not connected to reality, but in your example you demonstrate that it's precisely its pragmatism that makes it valuable.
	The acknowledgement that there is indeed an inhered feeling of sin, but the possibility of redemption not through moral action, but through the salvation offered through Jesus Christ.
	Uh-huh.
	Um, so it's actually, it's all just original sin from, you know, the fall and whatever, and white privilege isn't a thing.
	We just feel bad because of Jesus, and all these race grifters are leading us astray.
	There we go, we solved it.
	We did it.
	We did it.
	What's crazy is, for a while there, he was just, he's like, white guilt, and then virtue signaling, and then, okay, so religion says that we already should feel, like, we do feel guilty, so then white guilt is folded into this, like, religious idea.
	For a while, I was like, yeah, yeah, oh, oh, you're getting there.
	And there was actually Religious movements throughout history, not the prevailing ones necessarily, but a lot of religious people got to that point to join the civil rights movement or whatever kind of other revolutionary theology, like, yeah, original sin.
	Teaching you what to do with the guilt and then what to do about it.
	That's a path a lot of people took to do something better with their lives.
	And then he has to keep changing, he has to keep moving the goalposts to make himself right.
	He gets very close to, like, yeah, that's a real idea!
	That's a real thing that happened.
	People decided that their religion Um, taught them how to handle and act on and atone for bad shit that happened.
	And they did that.
	And took anti-racist stances because of that.
	You know what?
	Oh, wait, nobody changed it.
	Oh, it's confusing.
	Oh, JK, it's confusing again.
	It's so stupid!
	I will say that sounds like a much better option than making a shitty movie for four million dollar budget.
	Um, you know, that's, that's.
	And saying nothing.
	Yeah.
	And then another part of like, what he was, what he was describing was performative allyship.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	There's plenty of shit.
	That's like, as he's describing at least like the white guilt, like the, cause he just kept made a bunch of little straw man over and over and over and then move the golden posts around and yeah.
	Performative allyship.
	If that's what you think that white, if you think all white guilt is performative allyship, Um, I mean, and also then kind of like, this is why that's so insidious is because, yeah, it's not sincere.
	Because when you're, when it's about you, when it's about like the individual you, the person, the editorial you, and how you seem to the rest of the world, yeah, that's hollow.
	Don't do that.
	Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly.
	It's why it, you know, one of the things that bothers me about this movie is the only experts that he calls on are middle-aged white academic ladies.
	Yeah, yeah, exactly.
	Hey, maybe these aren't the people we should be asking about issues of race in the country.
	I think there are some people better qualified to speak about this.
	But they're also probably the only people who are willing to talk to him because...
	Yeah, for 15 grand.
	Black people of color, you know, like the activists doing the work, they can smell him coming a mile away.
	And they're like, no, no, no, you aren't going to get me.
	Yeah, exactly.
	Exactly.
	Dear, oh, dear.
	So now we've got a real hot take from Russell.
	Racism isn't really that much of a thing, because when he was younger, he thought black people were cool.
	More so personally, I was thinking about my own feelings around racial identity growing up in a blue-collar community, and when I'm growing up, like, it's the beginning of gangster rap and that, and my feelings about racial difference and forms of cultural identity that come out of black, say, black forms of identity was that it was really cool.
	Like, I loved N.W.A.
	and, of course, the character of Ali G., a precursor to Borat, To whom perhaps your films owe at least a technical debt in terms of the idea of this savant entering into sort of territories where they might create, you know, the sort of provocateur dynamic.
	I feel like that...
	But that idea that there are cultural differences, there are racial differences, but they might align rather nicely if there aren't external agents used to motivate it.
	And I think those agents can come from the right or left.
	You can have nationalist movements, That galvanized disdain.
	I'm talking more about the 70s and 80s here rather than what's happening currently that seems perhaps more complex.
	That galvanized disdain or dislike or agitation against migrant communities and indeed you can have from inverted commas the left movements of provocation entering into the community.
	Ah yes, the famous leftist racist anti-migrant groups.
	History is rife with them.
	I'd love for Russell to name one.
	Just one.
	I would accept one from Russell.
	For the absolute record, leftist anti-migrant groups do exist, but they're in a minority because anti-migrant views tend to run counter to the rest of leftist ideologies.
	I would also love for him to explain how the nationalist right-wing movements in the 70s and 80s were somehow worse and less complicated than the current alt-right version.
	You know, how that's different to now.
	He's saying that that's a different situation.
	Like, I suppose the modern-day ones don't usually have signs saying no blacks, no dogs, no Irish, but I don't think we're that far from that, to be honest.
	So I'd love for him to try and explain away how the current The racist learned how to say, well, I don't care what color, I'm colorblind.
	I don't care what color you are.
	And magically that confused Russell, like throwing a blanket over a parakeet cage.
	Yeah, does his best Tucker Carlson confused dog face, you know, and, and, and there we go.
	That's the whole thing.
	Um, that's the whole game.
	Um, and yeah, Russell thought NWA were really cool.
	Um, great.
	And, uh, Oh, they're the special ones.
	Yes.
	So that means I like them.
	They're the special ones.
	They've got the n-word in the name.
	And Ali G, apparently, who was not black and is the earliest Sacha Baron Cohen character to rise to prominence.
	And I think Russell thinks Ali G is black because of the famous, well, one of his taglines was like, oh, it's because he's black in it, was one of the things he used to say.
	I think Russell actually thinks that Ali G- Do you genuinely think that Russell thinks that Sacha Baron Cohen is a black person?
	No, I think he thought perhaps that Ali G is blackface or an iteration of that kind of situation.
	I'm wondering if that's kind of the territory he's thinking of.
	Because to bring Ali G up in context of like, yeah, I thought black people were really cool, like NWA and Ali G. I'm like, what?
	Well, even if it's like you're trying to take, I mean, I don't think that he thinks that Snatch Baron Cohen is, like, because those are two different points, right?
	Maybe Russell doesn't realize he's big, but those are two different points.
	Two different things that aren't really related.
	Maybe he didn't mean to connect the two things.
	Yeah, maybe that's possible.
	That's possible.
	And saying that, like, oh, well, it was OK for Sacha Baron Cohen to do that character, so it should still be OK, because I thought it was funny, which we know better than that.
	That's the thing, is, like, we've progressed socially, right?
	Like, what we're trying to have a conversation that is, like, practical and applicable to our daily lives to make our society better.
	And so holding on to old comedy Is it useful for that?
	It just isn't like it's not.
	Yep.
	You're not making the same point.
	That's that doesn't make any right.
	But like, yeah, I mean, I would imagine that was like, you know, essentially like one of Russell's like comedy contemporaries.
	So I don't understand.
	That's weird.
	It's a weird thing to bring up.
	Yeah, kind of came up around the same time, I guess.
	Yeah, it is strange.
	Anyway, the thought we're supposed to take away from the overall point is that without some kind of interfering force, without some kind of intervention of some kind, there wouldn't be any racist tensions whatsoever, right?
	So, you know, in Russell's example, you know, when When N.W.A.
	was around and he thought they were really cool, if there wasn't this interfering force, you know, promoting anti-migrant stuff in the 70s and 80s, then there wouldn't have been any racial tensions at all, and everyone would have thought N.W.A.
	were really cool.
	And within the context of these two men, this is specifically conjuring up some great replacement-y type images for me, of the Jews bringing in the brown people to replace the whites for nefarious reasons, right?
	Because both of them have spoken about it at length.
	What's annoying is that, in isolation, if you take what he said, it's not that bad an idea.
	Like, hey, if we got rid of all these systems enforcing and entrenching racism, as well as removing the palpable and obvious benefits of racism, maybe racism would kind of go away a lot.
	You know, for the most part, anyway.
	But that's not what they're getting at.
	I mean, yeah, sure!
	Yeah, in a vacuum!
	Right, I mean we run into that point all the time, right?
	Like in the show, that's constant.
	On its own it sounds, but that's not where they're taking it.
	And in fact, right, here's what Matt Walsh wants to happen, and he brings up an example that particularly pisses me off every time I hear it.
	You must have a sense of who the audience for your films will be, because I know Daily Wire is excellent at understanding those things.
	And I wonder, indeed, given the spiritual aspect of the answer to the last question, what you consider might be a point of reconciliation and reunion that might come from the areas that your films are examining and highlighting.
	I think, well, I was listening to what you said about the external agents that come in and create a lot of this interracial strife and all that, and I firmly believe that that is what's happening.
	And without that, well, we certainly wouldn't live in a utopia.
	That's not going to happen in this life anyway.
	And you're always going to have an element of tribalism with human beings.
	That's natural for humans.
	But I do think that at least in the West, racially speaking, things could be OK.
	Things could be basically fine.
	If you didn't have these people that were invested in making sure that it's not fine.
	I mean, I think back even, I can't speak to the UK, but at least in the US, in the 90s, now the 90s, we know we had, you know, we had some race riots, we had OJ, we had, you know, racial strife in the 90s, by no means was it perfect, but At least I can talk about being a kid going to public school in a liberal area in the 90s.
	Very racially diverse, we would say now.
	How much?
	A lot of diversity and inclusion.
	We didn't use those terms, but there was a lot of it.
	I had a black friend.
	It was basically fine.
	We didn't spend a lot of time talking about the fact that we were different.
	We didn't spend a lot of time talking about racism anyway.
	Now, you acknowledge race, but we don't need to focus on and talk about racism incessantly.
	I think about, it's a famous clip, I believe it was Morgan Freeman, a pretty famous clip from a 60 Minutes interview he did maybe 25 years ago.
	Where he was asked about Black History Month and he said that he doesn't like it because let's just talk about American history and black history is American history, white history is American history.
	And then he was asked, well, what do we do about racism?
	He said, stop talking about it.
	And now, I don't know.
	If you ask Morgan Freeman that same question today, would he give the same answer?
	I hope so.
	I'm not sure.
	But I think that is sort of the answer.
	If you don't focus on it incessantly and talk about racism and tell everybody all the time to look back.
	That's so much of these diversity, equity and inclusion grifters.
	This is all of their game.
	It's like they're always telling you, well, look back within yourself.
	What are you thinking about race?
	What do you really feel?
	Oh, you think you're not feeling any racism.
	You only think that, but look deeper because it's really in there.
	It's always there.
	And it's like they have to constantly convince you that you're actually racist and you're insisting to them, but I'm not.
	That's why.
	I don't know people of other races, but no, but you are.
	That's why we have to save it.
	You really are.
	You fool.
	They're very blatantly and I think plainly invested in making sure that people either are racist and if they're not racist, at least perceive themselves to be racist so that they can keep the grift going.
	As opposed to your investment, sir.
	Yeah, that racism doesn't exist.
	Okay, so a couple of things going on here.
	One being that Matt Walsh is taking Morgan Freeman's words and twisting them to his own ends, and the other being that- Yeah, I thought so.
	I thought so.
	I was like, I'm waiting for the real quote.
	There's a part of that.
	And also Morgan Freeman, I would say, was flat out wrong about something.
	That occurs as well.
	So what Morgan Freeman said in 2005 was basically that the reason racism won't go away is that everyone keeps talking about it.
	He did say that in an interview.
	And I think it's very easy for one of the most famous and wealthy men in the world to make that claim.
	The literal black slaves in US prisons right now might feel somewhat differently on the issue.
	However, his broader points are a bit more nuanced.
	Like, for instance, he doesn't like being referred to as African American, and thinks that black is a much better term.
	Fair enough.
	He also objects to Black History Month because of the idea that it relegates the entire of black history to the month of February, with the implication that black history can't or won't then be studied the rest of the year, when black history in the US is just American history.
	Now, I suspect Black History would be studied less if you got rid of Black History Month rather than it being studied more throughout the year and it balancing out, but what do I know?
	Asked by the Times whether he agreed with Denzel Washington's statement that he was very proud to be black, but black is not all I am, Morgan Freeman said, yes, exactly, I'm in total agreement, you can't define me that way.
	Okay, so we're...
	Kind of understanding a bit more of the broader picture here.
	And speaking of injustice, kind of on screen, he said, quote, all people are involved now.
	Everyone, LGBTQ, Asians, black, white, interracial marriages, interracial relationships, all represented.
	You see them all on screen now, and that is a huge jump, unquote, right?
	His position being supportive of this, right?
	Of representation broadly.
	But, because he said, well, you should stop talking about racism, and he said that- Is that the actual, like, verbatim what he said?
	Yeah, you should stop talking about it.
	The actual quote.
	You should stop talking about it, yes.
	In 2005.
	Yes, yeah, exactly.
	It's a fucking old quote.
	I'm not sure whether he would say the exact same thing now, necessarily.
	I don't think he would.
	i don't um but because he said that racist like matt walsh can glom onto what he's saying and twist it to mean well i mean who needs things like representation on screen anyway because anyone wanting diversity equity and inclusion or representation is just a race grifter according to matt walsh right these are all these are all cogs of the same thing um yeah okay so So I'm not going to tell Morgan Freeman he can't say what he needs to say ever really.
	I don't think that's right.
	Um, and he's absolutely correct that I feel like, and I mean, yeah, African American is what was kind of a, I mean, we have to look at where these kinds of terms come from, um, and kind of who they serve.
	And I think that if you want to make the point that like, You know, you take that out of context and I can come from that, that same quote from a very different angle of like, um, we need to quit talking about it because just talking isn't doing anything.
	We need to be proactive and that's where it could just as easily, I'm not saying that's what he said, but that could just as easily be like, listen, I can, I can take these words and make a point just as easily as Matt fucking Walsh can.
	This is not, He isn't the only one that gets to do that, because genuinely, it is a lot of it, even DEI, even CRT, these things are a lot of just fucking talk for white people to feel better about their choices, and that's not nearly enough.
	And it's not right, and it's not really doing anything if That's the intent is to make what it's if it ends up like boiling down to performative allyship.
	And I mean, definitely because of grifters like Matt Walsh that are making these points, then yeah, it's it's not doing enough to fix and it's not fixing the problem you're papering over.
	You're papering over a systemic issue, and genuinely, even in America, we're not doing the things that we need to do to actually fix the issues and understand the interconnected nature of poverty and redlining and job disenfranchisement and voter disenfranchisement and gerrymandering.
	There are so many things that work together to not just affect Black people, Or not just affect people of color, but they are the majority of who is affected.
	So we should all care because at the end of the day, we are all affected by these issues.
	And so picking out one thing or another and like one hire at a time at a company, a company that is ultimately, what are they making money on?
	Are they exploiting an entire country or an entire region of the global South to be able to pay the money to pay their employees in the first place?
	Some of whom may be diverse and have equity and be included?
	Yeah, it's a much bigger problem that needs to be addressed as the big problem, or none of this is going to change.
	I would argue even just from the roles that Morgan Freeman has participated in and put his name on, I mean, I think that's what's so disingenuous about, like, Quoting a guy that's still alive.
	You might as well say Bill Shakespeare or Thomas Jefferson, because then it's easier for Matt Walsh to take out of context when there's plenty of other interviews with Morgan Freeman, and there's plenty of roles that he's taken that would contest that statement.
	And yeah, it's a rich guy thing to say, but he's also talking about his experience and what's bothering him.
	That's, I mean, I don't want to hear about it from fucking Matt Walsh, that's for goddamn sure.
	I mean like the Black is Beautiful campaign was like, that was a campaign, like saying black and making black good and okay was like from the 70s.
	That's like a very intentional effort that I think It gets misunderstood and twisted by these kinds of distractions, like what Matt Walsh fucking makes money doing, which is... I have a really hard time listening to that shit.
	This specifically, this dude, just really gets under my skin.
	Yeah, that response is absolutely correct.
	Well, one thing I will say with the issue of performative allyship, I think where you run up against a problem is, I'm not sure you can get to the action part without the talking part first, you know, so you do need to talk about the thing, but then you need to make sure it follows through, yeah, which is why like any of what he's saying of like, oh yeah, just stop talking about racism, No, no, no, no.
	There are things that need discussing here.
	Well, conversely, that's the thing.
	If you're talking, that is you then committing to following through.
	Right.
	So if Matt Walsh is insisting, oh, well, talking isn't going to cut it.
	We should stop talking about it.
	Oh, okay.
	Well, then what are the efforts that you are replacing that talking with?
	Oh, I see.
	Or are you very active But you don't feel the need to talk about it, but you're gonna be about it instead?
	Oh, you're doing neither?
	Oh, okay, well then go fuck yourself.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Different conversation entirely.
	Yeah!
	Now, Russell has a couple of thoughts about Martin Luther King Jr.
	and Malcolm X. Oh, great.
	Culturally, I'm a person that sort of, my background, you would be of the left, sort of, because of the axis that might exist between the trade union movement, where you'd think like that men that had working class jobs in sort of manufacturing industries, say, and although those jobs have largely disappeared from countries like yours and mine,
	And then what the culture would have regarded as maybe champagne socialism, but the kind of socialism that comes out of civil rights of like great figures like Maloofah King and Malcolm X, etc.
	But with my more recent analysis, such as it is of those times, I point out that those are generally religious figures as much as they are social or political figures, and indeed owe their debt and legacy to religious figures, e.g.
	Gandhi.
	Okay, so Martin Luther King and Malcolm X were champagne socialists.
	That's interesting.
	Well, he said that it was religious, right?
	I thought those were two different ideas that he was presenting.
	But they owe Gandhi?
	Yes, they owe the power and the change that they were able to inspire to religiosity and religious figures like Mahatma Gandhi.
	Alright, Russell.
	You are out of your depth.
	Yeah!
	This is getting to be a very specific type of insulting.
	Take a nap.
	Y'all are both out.
	I do think that's part of what Russell is wrestling with in this interview, to be honest, is that he does not seem comfortable throughout the whole thing.
	And I think that's because he is talking to Matt Walsh, a fucking bigot, about things where Russell does not agree with him on.
	And so he's like, how am I gonna- - I'm surprised this is happening.
	- Yes, yeah.
	- That's what I'm saying. - As soon as like Matt Walls came out of his mouth, I'm like, really?
	- Yeah.
	- It just seems like oil and water, even as like their marketing, their branding, right?
	Like, it seems like oil and water to me.
	But it also makes perfect sense, because, you know, like, Russell's making the rounds.
	It's almost like he's forced to, and in that way, it's punishment, and you both deserve it.
	Neither of you were happy about this.
	Good.
	I hope you both hated it.
	You both deserve to be miserable.
	Yeah, because that's him in the whole of this thing, because Like, there's a different tone.
	When Russell is speaking just to hear himself talk, which is the usual version, like, there is a different tone to this, whereas now he's wrestling with it.
	He's like, how do I say the thing I want to say?
	He's wrestling with it.
	You're right.
	A, he's rustling with it.
	Ha!
	Rustling with a bramble, that's what he's doing.
	All right.
	So now we get to the subject of racism and homosexuality in the Bible.
	I wonder, like, it's clear in Christianity that race is irrelevant.
	Everything is irrelevant.
	Christ died for you.
	Christ don't care about any of that.
	I've asked people, you know, Christians specifically about, what do you reckon Christ would think about homosexuality?
	What would Christ think about trans issues?
	And I've had some great answers, including like, there ain't no separate compartment in hell.
	All of us are sinners.
	It doesn't matter what the type of your sin is.
	If you're a sinner, you're a sinner.
	Non-judgment is a sort of an important facet.
	It's for all of us to individually find our relationship with Christ and to invite him into our life through personal relationship.
	I wonder how much your Christianity affects your perspective when it comes to filmmaking, and whether or not, like me, you find it hard not to get sucked into the polemicism that defines the political space that you work in as a journalist and as a presenter when it comes to having a Christian perspective also.
	Are there odds?
	Because we sort of know that Christianity would always demand non-judgment, forgiveness, open-heartedness, love, etc.
	What are you facing in that area?
	Confusing!
	In terms of being difficult as a kind of polemicist, normally a pundit, and then even doing films like this where it's not as simple as just looking at the camera and giving my opinion, that can be a challenge.
	I mean, that's one of the, in making both of the films.
	I'm a hateful piece of shit.
	People often ask me, well, how do you, when you're in these rooms making films like this with these kinds of people, how do you stop yourself from laughing?
	And for me, it's not really a problem of stopping myself from laughing.
	It's actually more stopping myself from screaming at them.
	And telling them that they're wrong and that they're full of it, and then just turning to the camera and saying, here's the real lesson, folks.
	Because that's what I do every day on a podcast.
	That's the business that we're in.
	We look at a camera, we give our opinion.
	And there's a place for that.
	I certainly hope there's a value in that, because that's what I do every day.
	I feel like the world could live without the Matt Walsh show, but okay.
	So Matt Walsh wants to scream at everyone, that much I believe.
	He does seem like a man with a fountain of rage bubbling continuously below the surface at all times, you know?
	If you are fighting the constant urge to steamroll everyone and just say what you think and not learn or grow, no, you shouldn't have a fucking podcast.
	No, you shouldn't be talking to anybody.
	Or, you know what?
	Don't call it a fucking podcast.
	Do your own thing.
	You just want to scream about what you think and not learn?
	And then adjust your position?
	At least Russell's doing that.
	I mean, I would say lean into it and go get a job at InfoWars, you know?
	That's the place for that.
	If that's what you want to do.
	The thing you're describing is just the wrong medium.
	Yeah.
	Maybe you're a poet.
	Maybe you're a lecturer.
	But a conversation is not what you're interested in, so then don't...
	No, no.
	That's the case with both of his documentaries.
	Neither of them are actually looking to have a conversation.
	Documentaries?
	Yeah, exactly.
	I'm specifically trying to prove a specific point, and we'll go through any means necessary to get there.
	Before we get to Matt's feelings on all the religious stuff, I do want to highlight what Russell appears to be getting taught, religiously speaking.
	Firstly, the notion that race is irrelevant in the Bible.
	I mean, I'm glad that's the version of it he's picking up, because racists have long used the curse on Ham or Canaan to justify racism and also slavery for a long, long time.
	Well, he's talking to a Mormon, so... Right!
	Again, Americans know to not say it into a microphone!
	Yeah, but it's good that Russell is kind of picking up the love thy neighbor side of it instead.
	Good, that's positive.
	Of course, the book gets a little more complicated when it comes to the deposing and destroying any governments who are not Christian.
	And oh look, all those non-Christian people tend to be brown, don't they?
	Well, I guess that's just a coincidence, whatever it is.
	Yeah, not their fault.
	Coincidence.
	Yeah, exactly.
	Russell is still siding with the love thy neighbor bit on the surface for now.
	Fine, okay, good.
	Except for when it comes to being gay or trans, apparently, where what he's being taught is, yeah, they're all sinners, but hey, all sins are equal.
	You know, a sort of hate the sin, love the sinner kind of mentality that always grosses me out.
	Oh, it also doesn't make any sense.
	It's like, not the rules.
	That's just what they've made up.
	You're not supposed to make any graven images of God.
	Gestures to Sistine Chapel.
	They throw out the rules they don't like.
	It's just part of it.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, that's fair.
	What that looked like to me was Russell being like, I can't square this circle.
	He seems appropriately confused.
	Square peg, round hole, what am I doing?
	I am thinking about this.
	It's that kind of like, before you get the talking point, right?
	I don't see how y'all are, like, I don't see how I can represent my own brand and myself and my groovy guru-ness with all this hatred and vitriol.
	Y'all are not doing it my way.
	How can I do this my way?
	I want to do it my way.
	How can I make it sound nicer?
	Which, like, there are ways.
	How do I get this square peg in the round hole?
	There's got to be a way!
	Right!
	He sounded like a confused Christian who was like, but the book!
	And it's like, no, the rules aren't in there.
	They make it very complicated.
	Of course, as I've mentioned before, Russell is very big into the notion of all sins being equal because, you know, he's committed some pretty grave sins, biblically speaking.
	But Matt Walsh has a different opinion.
	In terms of the faith aspect of it, I think, you know, well as you kind of pointed out, as Christians we have a really elegant and beautiful answer to all the racial strife, which is that we're all human beings, and we're all descended from Adam and Eve, and we are all part of that same fallen human condition.
	We all need Christ In exactly the same degree.
	Now, I think that, you know, you pointed out that there are some Christians who will say that, hey, all sin is the same.
	I don't actually believe that.
	I think that all sin is sin, but there are degrees of sin and there are some sin, there's some sin that is worse than others.
	There's some sin that separates you from the light of God more than other sin does.
	You know, for example, telling a white lie, you know, child saying, I didn't take a cookie from the cookie jar is not as severe a sin as First-degree murder, but to use extreme examples, but even so we are all still sinners And if we're all committing sin that takes us farther and farther away from God the answer for all of us is exactly the same and it does not matter what your race is and And there's a real true unity in that it's like it's a real.
	It's a real unity too.
	It's not Because when you start talking about this I always feel there's always the risk of lapsing in the cliche where you say hey we're all it's all one race where the human race and Race is just a social construct that doesn't matter.
	I wouldn't go that far.
	Race is a real thing.
	It's part of your identity.
	It matters.
	It's like I'm a man.
	It doesn't not matter that I'm a man.
	But from a spiritual perspective, Whether you, whatever your race is, whatever your sex is, we're all children of God.
	And whatever guilt we're feeling, the answer for all of us is the same.
	And I think that's quite a, quite a beautiful thought.
	And that, that, that really is the answer.
	Maybe it's why I feel, I'm not going to say impervious, but I've, I've never felt even tempted to fall into this I bet you haven't.
	I bet you haven't.
	Oh, I don't know.
	- I bet you haven't. - Seem to fall into in the West.
	- I bet you haven't. - I look at it and like I said, I can't even, it's hard for me to even relate to it.
	I don't understand how you could fall into this.
	And maybe it's because I have a spiritual grounding and I kind of, I know where to put that guilt.
	I know where it's coming from.
	- Oh, I don't know.
	That's why.
	- And they're more confused on it. - I think 'cause you're a fucking sociopath is why.
	Not us, the spiritual grounding.
	This prevented Matt Walsh from acknowledging his own life.
	Those were just a bunch of like separate statements that contradicted each other.
	Like how is this even a conversation?
	It's like he put all his thoughts into a bag and he's just pulling them out one at a time.
	It's truly, that's why it's so hard for me to engage in this stuff.
	It's like you don't relate one thought to the next.
	Yeah, yeah.
	And like, I'm not surprised that he doesn't understand white guilt or any of that or white privilege or anything of that.
	Like, yeah, that completely fucking tracks.
	But it's not because of spiritual grounding, Matt Walsh.
	It's because of layers and layers of bigotry.
	Layers and layers and layers.
	You're like a never-ending onion.
	He's also lying!
	Well, yeah, that as well.
	Right?
	It's both!
	I hope he's lying.
	I hope he has some fucking concept of it.
	But who knows with these people?
	Truly.
	Well, the thing is, if he totally didn't understand it, then he wouldn't even talk about it.
	If he truly, genuinely, the way that he's describing it, if he just didn't understand it, that would be the long and short of his conversation about it.
	But he actually talks about this all the time.
	If he didn't understand it, he would at least have a modicum of curiosity about trying to actually hear other people out.
	Exactly.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	That's the thing.
	It's like, oh, if I don't understand it, then he's not going to say anything else because he's starting from nothing.
	If you have no information whatsoever and no bias, then, yeah, you're going to ask questions and then genuinely pay attention to and learn from the answers.
	And he doesn't do that.
	So that's why we also know he's a lying liar whose pants are on fire.
	That's what that's this.
	Like, even just in those sentences, Are y'all feeling this?
	Like, it's so crazy to hear how disparate those thoughts were, but still in succession.
	I just... It doesn't make any... Okay.
	I'm trying to make sense where I shouldn't.
	That's me.
	That's my problem.
	Okay.
	Let's go.
	Anyway, so we're all fallen and all the same, but all sins are not equal, and that's a nice point of tension with Russell there that I like.
	I'm at least seeing Matt Walsh's version of things as being more consistent, because yeah, stealing a cookie and lying about it is in fact not the same as murder, but Russell would like to believe that.
	But he walked it back three separate times!
	That's what I'm saying is these thoughts aren't cohesive!
	He's not...
	Remembering what he has said from sentence to sentence.
	It's either, come on, like, and also that's Catholic.
	Like, yeah, Catholics have, like, they're very into lists.
	Yeah, exactly.
	They have the hierarchical stuff.
	That checks out.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	Right.
	It's at least, it's at least somewhat, there is a degree of consistency compared to, compared to Russell's perspective.
	Anyway, so from here, Russell brings up the little example he likes to bring up of footballers taking the knee in front of the royal family again, right?
	Though this time with an addendum.
	In our country, for example, Matt, after the George Floyd murder and the subsequent BLM movement, took on ceremonial demonstrations, say, at sporting events, which continues, you know, as footballers in my country take the knee still before football matches.
	But say a final, like an FA Cup final or a European final, a major final, you may have the event of young footballers taking the knee.
	And one of my friends said, yeah, but think of like young black footballers.
	It's obviously going to be meaningful to them and to their white teammates.
	It's going to be important to show solidarity.
	And I can understand that.
	But when they're doing it in front of the royal family, then you have to acknowledge that Colonialism and imperialism has it as its ultimate zenith, the aristocratic and exploitative oligarchical class that has as its living symbol royalty.
	And I felt at the beginning of the statue pulling down time, oh how are you gonna pursue this?
	Because in the end you'll have to pull down everything.
	In the end you won't be able to have a nation.
	Now I'm not for, as a Yes, particularly now as a committed Christian, I don't have a view on that, whether or not there has to always be a United Kingdom, there has to always be an America.
	Perhaps as there was something that preceded the UK and preceded America, perhaps there was something that There will be something that follows it.
	Certainly if Christ returns and there is a rapture, there certainly will be.
	But maybe even socially it's possible to evolve beyond these states.
	I wonder if you see the complexity of choosing to pursue some of the narrative assumptions that emerge from exploitation and the presumption of white supremacy and not All of them, and where it leaves the idea of a nation full stop, if you start to pull those threads too hard.
	Yeah, I think you're right.
	Well, once you start pulling it, then you might as well pull it all down.
	And some of us pulled it out even before George Floyd.
	In the U.S., a few years before that, there was kind of a mini movement that cropped up to start pulling down, particularly in the South, the monuments to Confederate generals or mentions of Confederate generals.
	Confederate flags and that sort of thing.
	Losers.
	And the reason that was given is that these were white racist slave owners or at least people who supported slavery.
	And some of us pointed out back then this is back in I don't know 2016-17 That, uh, and even Trump made this point about the time that, well, okay, but you do realize that our founding fathers were white and racist by our standards today and they own slaves.
	So, uh, so if, if that's the reason for tearing down a monument, then I guess there's going to come down soon too.
	And at the time we were told, oh, that's ridiculous.
	We're not going to do that.
	And then what do you know, fast forward a few years and they're tearing down, uh, the founding fathers too.
	Where?
	Where?
	Who?
	No examples?
	Oh, no examples.
	Cool.
	Huh.
	Interesting.
	But also, the Founding Fathers were almost uniformly slave-owning wealthy whites, so yet maybe we shouldn't lionize and worship them just because they had a couple of ideas that weren't terrible.
	You know?
	They also did a lot of bad shit.
	We weren't saying that's ridiculous.
	No.
	We were saying, good point.
	Yeah.
	Who's next?
	Yes.
	Like, hey, yeah, you know what?
	Maybe we shouldn't put these people on a fucking pedestal is the issue.
	You know, it's not that we should erase them from history.
	It's not that nobody should ever be taught about them.
	It's that we shouldn't worship them because they had some bad stuff.
	Yeah.
	Addressing the reality of their positions and the hypocrisy they're in is instructive.
	That helps you learn about why the systems are still rigged and broken to this day.
	And in fact, the system is not broken, but it is doing the thing that it was intended to do, which is to divide and conquer.
	That's exactly what's happening.
	And so no, we shouldn't be lionized.
	And listen, a lot of countries don't.
	A lot of countries will make a new constitution or six because you need a new one because cars were invented come the fuck on it's it's so baby brained like.
	Pretty much.
	I can't engage in good faith with any of the aspects of these conversations because I know how fucking absurd they are.
	I can listen to it and I can hear it, but what do you even fucking say to somebody like Matt Walsh?
	He's constructed his whole life and his whole mind palace to be unassailable.
	To be completely, like, it really, it's so, like, ironclad in, like, this, like, very narrow, specific, one little, little sphere of thinking that works for him and anything else he can't deal with.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
	The lionization of the Founding Fathers is especially strange for a country that doesn't have a monarchy, you know?
	Like, with us over here, we are terrible at letting go of any historical figure whatsoever.
	It's remarkable that any statues got torn down over here.
	A couple did, and it was great.
	But, you know, we have statues to fucking everyone, all of the terrible people, because that's just the way our system is.
	It's monarchical and entrenched that kind of way.
	Whereas you guys are supposed to not have that, but there it fucking is anyway.
	Where do they come from?
	Where do they get all their ideas?
	Exactly, it's this hangover of fucking British monarchism.
	Yeah, I don't think it's that different.
	No, it's absolutely not, but these people should be uniformly against it, you know?
	They hate monarchy, supposedly.
	Shouldn't they?
	Shouldn't they?
	Dear, dear.
	What do you know?
	And either way, once again here we have the idea from Russell that any incremental change is bullshit and is impossible.
	It's either tear down the entire system or nothing.
	And oh, that tearing down the whole system thing seems a bit difficult, so I guess we'll do nothing then.
	But doesn't he also want to do that?
	Like, he said he's ambivalent either way, basically, which I don't believe.
	No!
	But there we go.
	Well, that's honestly, I think that's more honest than, like, what he says in other, like, as far as his, you know, like, his theocratic ethnostates.
	He doesn't want that.
	That's too hard.
	Yeah.
	He doesn't want to, yeah, he doesn't want that.
	He doesn't want to have to do any of it.
	He just wants to keep having his nice fancy life and doing whatever he wants.
	And he says that, To make himself feel self-righteous and to make people feel better so he can make money.
	He doesn't actually want that either and I think that his saying he's ambivalent is telling.
	Yeah!
	Very telling.
	I think so.
	Okay, so now we get a little trip through history that I think might upset you a little bit.
	But it goes beyond that, because the truth is, I mean, you brought up slavery.
	One of my many problems with this idea that I, as a white person, carry guilt for slavery, or that there should be reparations for it, you touched on one of the reasons, which is like, that doesn't mean that I have individual culpability for things that I, that the mistakes that were made, or I won't say mistakes, that's, The evil that was committed by people who were not me generations ago, the fact that I have individual culpability for that, is absurd.
	But one of the reasons why it's absurd is that slavery in particular, if we're going back in time and we're assessing the terrible things that were done by our ancestors, Well, slavery is a great example of the kind of thing that, actually, if anyone carries guilt for that, we all carry guilt for it.
	If you can inherit guilt for slavery, we all have that inherited guilt, because slavery was a universal, global institution for literally thousands and thousands of years.
	I think it's a shame that the discussion about slavery has turned into this ridiculous, like, white versus black thing, because if we could be more intelligent about it, there's an actually interesting question here, which is, I think about often.
	Which is, how could it be that for thousands of years, everyone in the world either practiced slavery or was okay with it, and it never occurred to anyone, even the greatest minds of history, it seemed to never even occur to them that there might be something just inherently wrong with owning a person?
	And I think that the history of the world shows us that, again, for thousands of years, that really didn't occur to anyone.
	Now, there were some people that were a little bit more progressive for their time, and so they said things like, well, treat your slaves well, or, you know, there should be rules for when you're allowed to take slaves and that sort of thing.
	There really wasn't anyone who said that, hey, look, All humans have inherent human rights and dignity because they're human beings and you cannot own anyone ever under any circumstance.
	Nobody said that for thousands of years anywhere in the world.
	No one has ever.
	And certainly nobody said it in Africa.
	Which was a willing and eager participant in the slave trade and held on to it.
	In Africa, they held on to the slave trade for longer than the white Western European powers did.
	And then in what is now the United States, in the Americas, in this entire hemisphere, Um, slavery was an institution for hundreds of years before any white man stepped foot on its shores.
	You had the, you know, you had the Mesoamerican tribes, the Aztecs and the Incans and the Mayans that were ransacking the tribes all around them, taking slaves both for labor and also to rip their hearts out of their chests as human sacrifices.
	Sorry, you're dumb, Walsh.
	You also need a nap.
	Yeah.
	Also, Africa is a continent, not a country.
	There's a lot going on there.
	Yeah.
	Oh dear.
	Hey guys, everything you just heard was completely fucking wrong.
	Pretty much.
	Throw it away.
	Pretty much.
	There's nothing...
	Yeah, Ethiopian slavery, for instance, did run into the 1900s, but it's a very specific and complex situation.
	No, slavery also took a million different forms all throughout a ton of different iterations.
	We are talking specifically about chattel slavery in America.
	And it is not complex and it's not nuanced or diverse.
	It's very fucking specific.
	The 1619 Project is called the 1619 Project.
	Come on.
	And to tackle the kind of broader point, nobody is saying that you have responsibility and culpability for the crimes of your ancestors or potential crimes of your ancestors, right?
	The sins of the father are not the sins of the son, right?
	However, If that father set up a system to disproportionately benefit the son, and sons there are in perpetuity, so the son is still profiting off the sins of the father decades or centuries later, well maybe that's a little bit different, isn't it?
	Especially if that system is causing harm today.
	That is one of those arguments that you hear all the time, especially like school board meetings.
	There's a lot of video footage out there of white guys standing up and saying this exact thing, and I'm not gonna make my kid feel bad.
	I didn't know those ladies!
	Blah blah blah blah.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	It doesn't matter.
	Yeah, you're right.
	You're making a straw man argument.
	You are making an argument that we are not.
	You are repeating something that the argument is not being made.
	What you are on the hook for is how you act today in this world.
	No, you are not responsible or culpable for whatever your ancestors did.
	What you are responsible for is today and how you behave today.
	So, take that seriously as to how you move in the world.
	That's your responsibility.
	And obviously, Matt's notion of what slavery throughout history was is incredibly reductive, and even still misses the larger point.
	Intentionally, one might say, there were various forms of very commonplace slavery throughout the entire world for centuries, some of which were less brutal than others.
	It's a whole thing, very complicated.
	Sometimes that was a way to describe a job.
	That's the thing.
	The definitions are so varied so as to really not mean anything other than...
	You have to be specific about the context that you are using that word.
	Yeah, and where American slavery differs, I would say, was in its brutality, grotesqueness, and efficiency.
	Much like racism in general, Americans aren't the only ones to do it, but America did perfect the art form with bizarre specificity.
	You know, I think...
	Definitely up the top of the pile.
	Colonizers.
	Yes, yes, right.
	The Imperial Project is what made chattel slavery and that type of chattel slavery possible, and I'm sorry we weren't the only ones that were about it.
	Y'all were really good at distancing yourselves from it, but still benefiting directly.
	We dropped it earlier.
	That's what we did.
	We got rid of it earlier.
	We were like, no, no, it's the Americans doing it.
	Aren't they disgraceful?
	You know?
	Oh dear.
	And from here, Matt Walsh takes his arguments a little step further.
	And the same thing was happening in tribes to the north, less advanced tribes, but still the same thing of sending war parties in, killing almost everybody, taking slaves, taking children and women as sex slaves, taking men as slaves.
	So the point is that this is just everybody was doing it.
	That doesn't make it okay.
	But that does mean that it's absurd to point to one particular group who engaged in slavery and put all the guilt on them, and then act as though everybody else in the world was more enlightened than that, when they clearly weren't.
	And it also means, finally, and I'll stop babbling, but it means that really we can't... It's incoherent.
	So to hold our ancestors to these modern standards and to condemn, at a certain point it's sort of incoherent to condemn them for owning slaves because apparently it just never occurred to anyone in the world for thousands of years.
	And so we can sit here now in the year 2024 and say, well, they were ignorant and stupid and foolish.
	You know, all of humanity was ignorant, stupid and foolish for thousands of years.
	We can say that.
	That strikes me as really arrogant.
	And at the least, it's not a productive use of our time.
	Really?
	So it's incoherent and arrogant and not a productive use of our time to condemn people in the past for owning slaves, huh?
	I mean, it's a take!
	Everyone was doing it, so it's fine!
	You can't condemn slave owners!
	It was a while ago, you know?
	No, you definitely shouldn't learn anything from history.
	What a fool's errand.
	Exactly.
	That's the take.
	That's the take.
	Oh dear.
	That's so fucking crazy.
	Yeah, he just described why it's really useful to study history.
	Yeah!
	It's like, yeah, it happened a lot of different ways before, and it also ended over and over in many different ways before, and we should learn how to build a better world.
	Yeah, and we can be like, hey, that was fucked up.
	That was real fucked up.
	Because it turns out we're fucking regressing specifically about that Morgan Freeman comment about how Morgan Freeman was like, interracial relationships are fine now.
	Yeah, it's not a switch that just gets flipped.
	Maybe you're more concerned now that there are laws that had to be fought very hard to be able to put interracial, for an interracial couple in real life to be safe or to be able to be on screen in the first place in a movie.
	So maybe it didn't occur to him that we would regress so far because of how hard fought that, like in his lifetime especially, that those, that Ground was gained.
	So it feels impossible, I think, to a degree, until it's truly threatened.
	All these civil rights, all this progressive kind of work that's been done, maybe you don't care about maintaining it until you see that it might be gone.
	And that's a problem.
	So that's why we talk about it.
	It's getting so sensitive about just talking about it.
	Sorry, Snowflake.
	Oh, I didn't know you were so fucking fragile, Matt Walsh, that even talking about these notions is so painful for you, you baby.
	God.
	Yeah.
	Snowflakiest of virtue-signaling snowflakes.
	All right, so now we move from racism to the subject of class warfare, and Matt Walsh has a perfect recent example of class warfare.
	It's a kind of odd elitist oligarchal state that's already in your country and mine and does afford certain sets and groups incredible power.
	And a professional class carries the water for them and carries the propaganda for them saying we have to help this maligned or vulnerable group or this maligned or vulnerable group in order that X, Y, Z.
	And it normally has the result of making the majority population, regardless of race, I would say, because it's more of an economic class or economic taxonomy that I would refer to here, feel bewildered and lost and uncertain.
	And whether it's sort of gender ideology or racial dynamics, it has the odd effect of offering instead of a all powerful deity, an all loving trinity at the center of all power prescribing all knowledge.
	This state, this centralised, globalist set of institutes.
	Do you see that?
	And if you do, what do you imagine might be part of the solution?
	Although I recognise that's a very big question.
	I do see that.
	I think you're right to point to the kind of, well, I guess we call it class warfare, but it's not really warfare because it's a rather one-sided war being waged by the elites on all the classes below them.
	And I would think, I don't know if there's a solution to it or what it would be, but it does begin with kind of an awakening of people realizing what's actually happening.
	And the thing that I guess the black pill here for me is that you pointed out the pandemic, and that was a perfect example of how this dynamic plays out, where they locked us all in our homes.
	They took, for many people, their livelihood away.
	And even while there's so many examples of the people that are imposing these restrictions on us, they would go out and they'd have their parties and they'd still be out living their lives and doing quite well, while we had to stay home, muzzled in our masks and so on.
	And you would hope that that experience would be an awakening moment for the public, that they would see this and see what's actually happening.
	And I think for a while... We did over here.
	Even worse than that, I mean, think about the fact that everyone locked in the home, you can't leave.
	And then, of course, infamously, the BLM riots happened.
	Get your talking point.
	There you go.
	And the elites say, well, that's OK.
	Somehow the virus doesn't spread if you're rioting for racial justice.
	And they were OK with that.
	And why were they OK with it?
	Well, because these rioters were tearing down poor, lower class neighborhoods and destroying the businesses, small businesses and destroying businesses where Oh, so it is a riot then.
	Huh, that's interesting.
	And then you had a riot at the Capitol, and this is where the elites work, and all of a sudden now this is not okay, we can't allow it.
	So again, it's that same dynamic. - Oh, so it is a riot then.
	Huh, that's interesting.
	Wasn't just a tour.
	It's fascinating to me how I would use this same example in the complete opposite direction.
	Particularly by paying attention to the police response to the Black Lives Matter protests and the police response to Jan 6th.
	For instance, when BLM had been present there were riot police on the steps of the Capitol building.
	Curiously, not a single riot cop when it came to Jan 6th and thousands of white men surrounding the place.
	How strange.
	How bizarre.
	Also, in terms of the elites having parties and whatever during COVID, over here, that actually did have an effect.
	Partygate is what lost Boris Johnson his job as Prime Minister, amazingly enough.
	That's what finally did it.
	I was going to say, incredibly.
	Incredibly.
	Of all the things.
	I know!
	There were so many better reasons to get rid of the guy, but fine.
	Any port in a storm, I'll take it, but God damn.
	Also Matt Walsh painting himself as like, we were all just sitting in our houses and just suffering and alone and we were being good little boys and girls.
	Not for one day.
	Nah.
	You were making hay while the sun shines the whole fucking time.
	Do not pretend to me like you wanted to obey a single solitary rule.
	Nah.
	Get out of here.
	here.
	Wild West.
	And also Russell is still on his tip there about DEI and wokeness being something inflicted by government and that making the state God.
	He's really clung on to that particular thread and I am slightly concerned where that's got potential to go.
	But we'll see.
	Something to track.
	Well if he's, yeah, I think that he's gonna cling on to the things that work.
	Yeah, that works for him.
	Yeah, yeah, no.
	You shouldn't be ambivalent about tearing down the state then.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	Yeah, right.
	Flesh out that thought.
	What does that look like for you, Russell?
	Should be all for it.
	Yeah, he's, again, square pegs, round holes, you know, he's really struggling.
	Well, and that's the question I've asked before is like, okay, so what does it look like to you?
	Like, what is your ideal future and your, you know, like, Homogenous, we'll say.
	You know, like tiny, like, theocratic ethnostates.
	Like, okay, well then how does that work and what does that look?
	Oh, we're not tearing down the system, so how does this system that you hate so much and complain about all the time, how are you gonna just make it also do the thing you say that you want?
	Oh, maybe you don't have a vision at all, nor do you need one, because you're just a fearmonger like the rest of them.
	Oh, okay.
	I'm just going to make a lot of money complaining about stuff and that's where we'll go.
	Cool.
	Nice.
	Thanks.
	Um, next Matt's a little mad that everyone has such a short attention span these days, but it seems like tragically over the, in the, in the years since then, um, many people have forgotten those lessons.
	And, uh, it, it feels like, look, we're in a, in the U S we're in the middle of course of an election and, Our experiences during COVID are apparently not politically relevant at all.
	It never comes up.
	It's not even polled.
	Nobody talks about it.
	I think a lot of us imagined back when we were going through this in 2020 and 2021 that the next election would be a real reckoning for all of this and everybody involved in it, you know, they're going to pay the price politically.
	And that just hasn't happened.
	People have forgotten about it.
	We've moved on.
	And I think that There's a lot of reasons for that.
	The number one reason is just that we live in this age of being bombarded with information.
	You know, a billion bits of information every day just constantly beaming at us.
	And the effect is that we can't focus on anything for very long.
	No matter how significant the event is, it is destined to be forgotten.
	30 seconds after it's over.
	I mean, Donald Trump was shot in the head.
	A presidential candidate was shot.
	We all saw it live on TV.
	He stood up, blood dripping down his face.
	He put his fist up.
	He said, fight, fight, fight.
	It's a historic moment.
	It's one of the most incredible things that's ever happened in the history of American politics.
	Pretty incredible.
	And that was a month ago, and it might as well have never happened anymore.
	It's not even talked about.
	It's not discussed.
	There's no interest in it.
	It's had no political impact at all in the polls.
	Which is amazing in only terrible ways, frankly.
	And I think, again, it just shows that we can't stay focused on one thing for very long.
	And the elites that you're talking about, they take advantage of that.
	They're very happy about that because it means that nothing matters and they can always distract us.
	And it's always the shiny object that you're staring at.
	For what?
	For why?
	It's crazy how much of that is like, yep, that is the exact analysis that I would apply from a completely different perspective.
	Capitalism.
	A completely different perspective.
	Yep!
	Yeah, it's interesting how much they have to like dance around that subject because they're getting paid by advertisers right now.
	Yeah.
	He's really not happy that Trump getting shot in the ear didn't make a single bit of difference in the polls.
	He's really, really upset about that.
	I bet.
	I bet they're all fucking bummed out.
	They're big mad.
	Big mad.
	Because that was my wisdom.
	Again?
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	That was my wisdom at the time, was like, ah, fuck, he's won now, isn't he?
	And turns out, no.
	Cool.
	Okay, cool.
	Never really.
	I was like, oh, that's fucked up.
	But I'm like, well, we'll see.
	I mean, genuinely, like, I feel like collectively we're all like, call me when they don't miss.
	Like, which is fucked up.
	That's a fucked up way to be.
	But like, when something actually happens, then I'll care.
	Why is that, though?
	Come on!
	Yeah, the country is so fucking divided that everyone's pretty sure pretty much which direction they're going to be voting anyway.
	I can see why everyone is already so uniformly on either side.
	I can see why, yeah, that didn't move the needle an inch.
	Well, there's plenty of people that are not uniformly on any side that are just fucking frustrated and like, yeah, we all feel like we're living in fucking Candyland.
	That's the thing is like, what he is saying about how inappropriate and fucked up and not right it is to have just moved on from COVID, like it's not, it didn't happen and it still isn't fucking happening right now in America, because it absolutely is.
	And we have to prepare going into the winter season because it's going to get fucking gnarly.
	I mean, we have family members that are sick right now.
	People have been sick all summer long.
	We've been watching it happen.
	And this shit's still fucking mutating.
	And when that happened in 2020, what, like...
	That's what I'm like, my perspective from whatever Matt Walsh was saying is like, yeah, it's really fucked up that we just moved on without like addressing the, like the fractures in the system were so exposed and so raw and the fact that nothing got fucking fixed even a little bit.
	Yeah, it gives him plenty of fucking ammo and he can just go on a tirade every single day and almost say the right thing with a few little changes.
	And he doesn't have, he has no responsibility towards it or anyone else around him.
	He doesn't have any responsibility to other Americans to be like a good faith, responsible communicator.
	Cause he is just paying his fucking bills for his kids.
	He probably fucking hates like that.
	Cause also I know this guy, like this guy, they're everywhere.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	We can throw them all in a big fucking pit.
	That's ridiculous.
	Yeah, and COVID's getting worse over here as well.
	It's starting to really take off over here too.
	You can thank us!
	Because we've been cooking in a petri dish for four fucking years!
	We keep letting you fucking people in, that's the problem!
	You shouldn't!
	I know!
	I wouldn't!
	What a bad choice!
	Yeah, but anyway.
	Truly!
	We've all forgotten COVID and we've all forgotten 2020 apparently.
	Right, but you know what I mean?
	You're so close.
	You're so close and a million fucking miles away because capitalism, you asshole.
	Capitalism and patriarchal control.
	Every time.
	Come on.
	But you know what?
	We've had some tough conversations today, right?
	Racism, classism, homophobia, general bigotry, and it's about time we get to the answer.
	Because there is an answer to all of this, and Matt Walsh is about to tell us what it is.
	Every year since 2001, the amount of available information has doubled, and therefore we're deluged in continual, perpetual information without absorbing any knowledge.
	And if there is no ability to create narratives with any mythic tenacity or any meaningful influence, don't that suggest we are...
	Existing in a kind of nihilistic fugue where almost any idea might take hold of us.
	And in that kind of environment, what sort of, you know, what sort of things matter?
	And does there need to be a more ardent return to, you know, the kind of, uh, what we've touched upon, but not explored in any great depth throughout this interview, Christianity and the importance of recognising that actually we've just created little things here.
	We're here to serve and follow some very particular instructions.
	And do you sense that that might return to the forefront?
	Traditional values.
	Yeah, I think, well, nihilistic fugue is a great way of putting it.
	And that's what I sense, anyway.
	If I were to summarize culture, maybe I would use that term.
	And... Yeah, that's the problem.
	Campaigning is really...
	A political campaign is really storytelling.
	At least traditionally, that's what it has been.
	Who has the more compelling story?
	Trump won in 2016 in large part because it was such a compelling, fascinating story that was just so remarkable.
	Whether you hated him or loved him, it was a remarkable story.
	And the story was so powerful that it was just, looking back on it now, it's just so obvious.
	But that storytelling requires people to follow it and get invested kind of in the narrative and to care about it for more than 48 hours.
	And if they don't, then it just becomes hard to do that anymore.
	Christianity is that.
	I mean, Christianity, it's easy for me because that's, in my opinion, the answer to all of our cultural problems, ultimately.
	But it's I think obviously the answer here because you have to have a sense of Christianity gives you a sense of You know, there's a sense of the eternal, that actually things do matter for a lot longer than 48 hours.
	In fact, what we're experiencing now and what we're living through, that all of this will matter in some way, even beyond the extent of our own physical lifetimes.
	And it'll matter, you know, into eternity.
	And I think if you take away that sense of the eternal and replace it only with the idea that we are temporal beings, we came out of nothingness, into nothingness we will return, we're here for the blink of an eye.
	And then on top of that, there's this billions of bits of information every second beaming at us.
	You combine those two things and there's no hope, there's no way for you to live a life where anything matters at all.
	And the only antidote to that is, again, a sense of the eternal and also, to the extent that's possible, to quiet some of that noise in your own life.
	You know, give yourself a sense of quiet and solitude in your life to focus on these things.
	Yeah, I'm trying to do that.
	Yeah, I'm sure you are.
	I'm sure you are, Russell.
	So, okay, there we go.
	The answer to all of our problems, culturally and societally, is Christianity.
	Cool stuff!
	We promise heaven to the peasants so they fucking get in line and calm down about how terrible their lives are in this world because it'll be really pretty and great.
	Don't think about physics too hard in the next one.
	Yeah, I never saw it coming that Christianity would be the answer.
	Or, well, I suppose from Matt Walsh it'll be Catholicism, specifically.
	But then the Methodists and the Evangelists and the Baptists won't like that, and then where does Judaism fit in?
	Oh, it doesn't.
	Oh, that's easy.
	No, the Christians have been in charge since, what, roughly 300?
	How much more time do you need to get it right?
	Maybe your system isn't super duper, because it just doesn't keep seeing a measure up.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Like, I don't know.
	I feel like we should at least... That's crazy to me.
	We should at least decide which version of it to run with, and then we can all try it, you know?
	When they're done figuring that out, then we'll try it.
	The fact that they can't figure it out is your answer.
	Yes indeed, oh boy.
	All right, that's enough.
	Remember when I found out that they wanted countries so we could get along better?
	That was a crazy day.
	We're like, we won't have this factionalism, we'll all get to be in a country and we'll all be able to get along because we are so many different diverse people but we're all in a country so we can all be German or American and we'll all get along way better.
	Just like the fucking guy that invented the Gatling gun so that we could, End war.
	Not make it portable and 3D printable.
	The Westphalian system went really well!
	Went great.
	Good lord.
	Good lord.
	Oh dear.
	Anyway, that's Matt Walsh.
	Not much to say.
	Fucking bigot.
	Fucking bigot.
	He described himself as a theocratic fascist or whatever and I'm like, yeah, you know what?
	Completely accurate, Matt Walsh.
	You're telling me exactly who you are.
	Thank you.
	Good.
	Yeah, and the shit that, like, really, you know, as far as, like, the, you know, the Haitians eating everybody's pets and Springfield, Ohio thing that has now since been incredibly, you know, we talked about on the livestream, it's incredibly consequential.
	Whatever you, like, you heard that and you, like, had to, like, put your earphones out.
	I left.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	It was, it was crazy in the moment.
	Yeah, yeah.
	When Mike and I watch that and our stomachs drop to the floor, because living here we understand that like, okay, so now there are white supremacists organizing and marching in the streets in Springfield, Ohio, and hunting down Haitians, which There was a representative from Springfield, Ohio that was like, that town was dying.
	And what I'm very familiar with in St.
	Louis, and there are many other towns that need a... The thing is, is like, immigrants and refugees are a revitalization project, even if you want to be the most fucking cynical about it.
	They brought that city back to life.
	Yep.
	And that's the thanks they get is an American person having a mental health crisis episode and injuring a pet in a really gruesome way in the process gets to be weaponized and then completely misconstrued and taken out of context which I'm at least relieved to see that this narrative While completely fucked, like, and yeah, and you can laugh at it if you see it without malice necessarily.
	I feel like Russell's that a lot.
	It's like, oh, that's crazy.
	Like, no, it's actually a very big deal and a serious problem.
	And it's going to have massive repercussions.
	But what I'm taking, I'm seeing people take the opportunity to explain, hey, guess what club is killing 10,000 dogs a year?
	The cops, the fucking cops shoot dogs that are running away, that are put away, that are not in any kind of like aggressive mode.
	Um, so that's, that's the actual threat to the safety of our pets in this country.
	And at least someone is taking the opportunity to make that point.
	It's nuts.
	This kind of shit, man, it does wear on me.
	Week after week, hearing these fucking rich white guys blithely have conversations that will affect everyone else and just have no fucking concept of the boots-on-the-ground reality of these fucking lies they're peddling.
	It blows my fucking mind.
	Yeah, yeah.
	This is the thing.
	It's easy for me to laugh from over here.
	I am thousands of miles away, you know?
	It is easy for me to see it as an abstract thing in the moment, and then the wheels start to turn.
	You're like, ha, this is going to have some consequences.
	Ah, fuck.
	Okay, this isn't just an insane... They're actually running with it.
	Oh, no.
	Okay.
	And with Russell, He has that same response as me, again, because he's thousands of miles away, right?
	He has the mode, this is crazy, isn't that hilarious?
	But then he contributes directly to the harm while having absolutely nothing to do with it, you know?
	He's as distanced from it as you could possibly be, but he's still able to contribute to the harm in that way.
	It's just, yeah, and talking about it, and I do want to be clear.
	That I don't think you could find a talking point that would make me more angry than saying, oh, if you're talking about racism, like genuinely, like, oh, talking about it is what makes it worse.
	Obviously.
	And I think I let that go as an out.
	It's like it's obviously fucked up.
	And I've been on the record for this show many times over.
	Yeah, that's incredibly fucked up.
	Of course.
	But at the same time, on the other side of that coin, yeah, I think that there's too much talking and not enough doing.
	There's a lot of promises that have been made that are not being kept.
	And so that's the thing.
	If you say, okay, well, Either if you're talking about it, you've gotta put your money where your mouth is and actually act on it and hold yourself accountable.
	And if you're so insistent on not hearing about it, okay, well then what are you doing to counteract the talking?
	What are you doing to, like, are you going above and beyond the talking to actually doing?
	Okay, well then maybe I'll listen.
	And again, like, I'm a white person.
	End of the day.
	I do not get to, like, I have a responsibility that is not a burden.
	Yeah.
	It's not.
	Yeah.
	And it's, guess what?
	Feel guilty sometimes.
	You're not gonna die.
	Yeah.
	Grow up.
	Yeah.
	Grow the fuck up.
	Yeah, that's it.
	And then start doing the work.
	Right.
	Well, that's our show, everybody.
	Go look up Where There's Woke.
	Find Thomas and Lydia and all the cool stuff that they do.
	Really, Really fun and interesting, you know, things that they delve into.
	And yeah, definitely, definitely plenty of stuff that's adjacent to what we have to tackle on here.
	And it's, you know, it's, it's, it's fun for me to have, to hear kind of different sides of it that aren't just wholly through Russell, you know.
	And also to, partly to hear other people have to suffer through Jordan Peterson.
	I'm like, yeah, that's validating for me.
	But yeah, but they do a great job.
	It's a really, it's a really great show.
	And also Thomas' other shows, Opening Arguments, Dear Old Dads, Serious Inquiries Only.
	I think that's all of them.
	And Gavel Gavel is behind the Patreon thing where they're dealing with more court-specific cases.
	And if you want to support us and what we do, head to patreon.com slash onbrand.
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	Okay.
	Yeah, and the shop is going to have a bunch of new stuff.
	Hey!
	Thought I was going to get it done by Saturday and that was not true.
	And that's also why I've got a fucking boogie right now.
	But there should be more stuff.
	I love a healthy dollop of optimism.
	Well, I mean, you know, and it's again, it's always a good problem.
	Yeah.
	And balancing, you know, consignment in real life and online store.
	I would love for it to be less difficult, but that's just not the case.
	And and fuck, I was going to remember.
	I don't remember what else I was going to say.
	It's going to be something very tangible.
	Nope.
	Nope.
	Is that gone?
	Great.
	It's gone.
	Got a leak in the brain pan is what's happening.
	Fuck.
	It was like a whole thing and my brain was that thing.
	You'll remember as soon as we start recording.
	I know I will.
	Anyway, yeah, there's stuff in the shop and that's very cool.
	Oh, that's what I was gonna say.
	That's what I was gonna say.
	Okay, shop.
	If you would like a magnet or anything else that is going to be available, the shipping has been screwy.
	So don't, just click around on the options.
	Don't let that stupid little shop overcharge you.
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	Or flat rate, you know what you're getting.
	We all know what we're getting and it's not, don't, But I will refund it also.
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	And yeah, patrons, we'll see you Sunday for some off-brand goodness, and the rest of you, we'll see you next week.
	Thank you for sticking with us.
	Take care of yourselves and each other.
	Thank you very much.
	We love you.
	Bye!
	Bye!
	Phyllis Schlafly's still dead.
	Bye!
	That's not win-win-win.
	That's lie-lie-lie-lie-lie-lie-lie.

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