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Oct. 5, 2023 - On Brand

03:06:30

OB #23 - Candace Owens

Candace Owens was on Brand's show recently, and had some truly awful things to say. CW: aggressive bigotry from start to finish, discussion of suicide. Support us on Patreon! - patreon.com/OnBrand

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	This is On Brand, a podcast where we discuss the ideas and antics of one Russell Brand.
	I'm Al Worth, and each week I go through an episode of Brand's Show with my co-host Lauren B. Hi, that's me!
	I have no idea what today's topic is going to be about, other than I know it's probably going to be a bummer.
	So here we go.
	Yep, you're going to hate it, and that's why we bolster ourselves with the good thing before the bad thing.
	So what is your good thing before the bad thing this week, Lauren?
	I have so much shit.
	Yeah, look at this bullshit right here.
	I'm banners that Mike has made these insane.
	There are banners listeners.
	They're wonderful, incredible glory, but it's all Halloween stuff.
	And I make everything out of, um, I gotta say my troubleshooting skills are next fucking level.
	The amount of like silly, oh no, that's going to add an hour to preparing all the materials and getting everything made.
	I'm... I'm a ninja.
	I mean, I'm a samurai.
	Bright spot.
	Lauren is a ninja samurai.
	I am.
	And a dinosaur.
	I am.
	Yeah, that's a real... I feel like that's a solid combo.
	Yeah.
	And Beetlejuice?
	All those things.
	I, uh, and yeah, so I'm like... See Lauren do three times in a row.
	She shows up.
	You hear that?
	Um, yeah, no, I, uh, I'm really fucking proud of myself.
	Like, I was just telling you briefly, you know, before we started, like, I don't get to feel like I'm this, like, force of nature that I can make up much of stuff anymore.
	I used to do it a lot more.
	Maybe why I can't do it so much these days, because I overdid it a lot.
	Yeah, I feel really good.
	I mean, I've made all this stuff and then more since Thursday.
	So remember when I was freaking out last time?
	The last couple of weeks at least.
	Yeah.
	Well, I feel like when it was like, okay, my minutes are planned.
	It was crunch time.
	Yeah.
	It was like crunch, crunch time.
	Yeah.
	And I made a bunch of stuff.
	So I feel really proud of myself and like super confident, which means no one will like anything.
	So yeah, that's like literally always how it goes.
	I like it.
	I can see from here that it's really cool, so I'm also confident in you.
	And also, like, I'm... I have forgotten how much fun it is to sew.
	That's so pedestrian.
	No, that's nice.
	That's great.
	Prairie of me.
	Oh, that's great.
	That's great.
	You know, kind of.
	But like, it's so fun.
	And I think it's fun because I'm better at it.
	I think the proportion of fun and skill have gone up.
	That does help.
	I suck at sewing and I hate it.
	So there we go.
	Cause it's really hard.
	It's like carpentry, but All your pieces also, like, slide around and they're completely, like, amorphous.
	A friend of mine who's a really great, like, just can make anything and is super talented, I made him, like, a tiny curtain for his back door once.
	And he just looked at me the entire time in horror, like, this is so hard.
	He's like, oh no, keep it simple, keep it simple.
	I'm like, no, this is what you have to do to make it even remotely.
	Like, passable.
	I'm not gonna, I mean, if you want bullshit, you can get iron-on hem tape and have it fall apart in six months by yourself.
	Yeah.
	And it was like, this is simple?
	Oh god.
	And I'm like, yeah!
	It's terrible!
	Welcome to sewing!
	That's what we do!
	Yeah.
	So I think for most people it's like, it's supposed to be hard.
	And I've been doing it for such a long time.
	Frankly, I should have been better by now.
	So yeah, what's your good thing?
	My good thing this week is, do you know what?
	I have finally caught up with One Piece.
	So I mentioned this many, many good things before the bad things ago.
	And I have finally caught up.
	I started many months ago around the kind of like, I don't know, it was late 500s kind of mark.
	And I have worked my way, I've worked my way up to present day, which I think is like 1087 or something like that.
	Oh my god!
	Yeah, I'm on a mission.
	There's a One Piece situation on Netflix.
	There is!
	There's a live action version.
	Yeah, it's supposed to be really good.
	It's been really well received.
	If it's popping up in my feed that means that folks are watching it.
	I mean it's been like the top.
	I'm excited.
	I'm excited.
	I've heard it's it's very good well done and it's getting getting more people into the show because you know obviously you can't you kind of need a hook but when something's like a thousand episodes you need something to pull people in a little bit you know and yeah.
	That's insurmountable to me.
	Do you know, I've gotten through it quicker than I thought I would, to be honest, you know, with just a minor amount of dedication, you know, going through a couple of episodes a day, you know, roughly, you know, and they're kind of 20, 20 something minutes.
	And then the first like five or six minutes will be, you know, recaps of last week and whatever else anyway, so you can skip that.
	You can pretty much cut it down to 15 if you're on a mission.
	I was trying to catch up with 90 Day Fiancé, it was like that.
	They've cut some of the fat in more recent seasons.
	And by the way, that was a mission I lost.
	Because they play the same clip 18 times before and after a commercial.
	Right.
	One Piece does have a little bit of that.
	It's not too unbearable, but there is also a fan-cut version out there called One Pace that I've not... so it gets rid of all of the kind of repeats of stuff, you know, where it's unnecessary, which is supposed to cut it down quite a bit.
	And I get all the weird drama that I want.
	Yeah, exactly.
	But no, I'm up to date with One Piece now and holy shit, there's some cool stuff going on in that show.
	It's very good.
	I'm annoyed that I can't progress any further with it.
	It's at that point now and I'm like, fuck, again!
	That's the bad part!
	Yeah, so that's frustrating, but very good, very cool, very happy, and I'm now sort of at a bit of a loss.
	I'm kind of, I'm scratching the surface with Naruto again, because I watched that like years and years and years and years ago.
	Judged.
	I judged harshly, friend.
	And when I judged harshly, I just, like, kind of didn't give a shit.
	Yeah, that's fair.
	And I'm like, this child's show.
	I don't understand.
	I'm like, just old enough to, like, I didn't really get into Pokemon.
	I didn't really get into Power Rangers.
	Like, I'm at that very weird, like, the age cusp.
	I'm like, Right on the precipice where I, like, didn't get into that stuff.
	Hamtaro?
	Different story.
	But everything else... And that... Those are interchangeable.
	That's basically just, like, the visual version... That's, like, the visual equivalent of just, like, holding a puppy.
	That's not... That doesn't count.
	But, like, I...
	I ended up sitting and watching like a couple- I was staying with a friend and like watched a couple episodes and it was like maybe 4am and I was like why am I crying?
	Why am I crying?
	I'm so emotionally invested.
	Yeah.
	How in the shit did y'all- like I feel like I got tricked but I was also here for it and I don't have time to like- I don't know.
	I don't have time to watch stuff.
	Honestly it's been kind of a problem.
	Like I've been thinking about it lately.
	I'm trying to Consume a little bit less news.
	Mm-hmm.
	Although I will say the kind of like dump that we did, or that I kind of put a bunch of information in one place in the last off-brand.
	Yeah.
	I felt a lightness come off of me having been able to like put some stuff there.
	So, but at the same time, I'm like, well, now I'm gonna, I mean, it took a break.
	My version of a break is like, oh, let's listen to this podcast about the Bay of Pigs.
	Like it's not.
	Yeah, breaky.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	Not so good with the mental breaks, necessarily.
	Yeah, let's dive into the Cold War.
	No, but that felt good.
	It felt good to be informed as well.
	It was nice to just accept all the information you were giving me, no matter how horrifying most of it was.
	So a bit of role reversal there, I suppose.
	Get through the fast.
	Well, yeah, get through the fast and try not to dwell on that and try to take away some good Lessons, and I think action items.
	That's the point to me.
	What are we doing if we're not doing that?
	For anyone who is not a patron, I highly recommend checking out The Last Off-Brand.
	You can join us for a buck.
	It's a very interesting conversation about... How would you describe it?
	Well, we've been in a state of rape news fatigue, so I try to just round up all the general exploitative men news and try to power through the ugly parts.
	Yeah, who are all religious extremists.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	Oh, they're all this.
	Okay.
	Religious extremism and how the kind of behind-the-scenes financial aspects that honestly are really scary.
	Those are the things that have implications for literally every citizen that is living in the country that this stuff is happening.
	Pretty much.
	Because it's also a tax dodge, all that kind of stuff.
	So obviously content warning.
	I feel like I, I feel like I was repulsed enough before I said anything to kind of imply a content warning.
	Yeah, I did.
	I did.
	I did.
	I think right in the description, you know, that, um, yeah, Christian, uh, no, no, well, not just Christian, just religious extremist men.
	Um, all of them are sexual assaulters.
	It's just like, oh, that's all of them.
	Okay.
	Okay.
	Yeah, I'm hoping that I, you know, I'd love to have more presence of mind to mention it in past, but I do feel like the, and then you can just fast forward a minute if you don't want to hear the gnarly stuff, or even better, you just mute it and watch the video and then you watch us Yeah, you pretty much just get to watch my face turn to abject horror at the various laws in the United States.
	So there we go.
	So we have a show to deal with, but first we should thank some new patrons.
	So first up, Gorlitza, you are now an awakening wonder.
	You are indeed an awakening wonder.
	Thank you, Gorlitza.
	Thank you.
	Very much appreciated.
	Sleep when the baby sleeps, clean when baby cleans.
	You are now an awakening wonder.
	You are indeed an awakening wonder.
	Presumably with a messy house, but thank you.
	Yeah, I was like, your baby cleans?
	Yeah, right.
	As I said, that's good.
	Thank you.
	Thank you.
	Kieran Dackler.
	Hey, I know you, Kieran Dackler.
	I think I know you.
	I think we were chatting a bunch at QED.
	If that is you, I hope you are well, friend.
	Either way, you are now an awakening wonder.
	You are indeed an awakening wonder.
	Thank you, Kieran.
	Thanks, Kieran.
	And David Smales, you are now an awakening wonder.
	You are indeed an awakening wonder.
	Thank you, David.
	Thank you, David.
	I do also have a minor correction from last week for the patron who I called Dr. Asham.
	It turns out the name was actually Dr. Assham.
	I wanted...
	I wanted to of course get that right, and might I suggest, Doctor capitalizing the H or maybe a hyphen in the middle?
	Because I did consider saying it that way but ultimately had it not been a joke name I'd have come off like a real dick.
	Either way, Doctor Assham, you are now correctly an Awakening wonder.
	You are indeed an awakening wonder.
	Thank you, Doctor.
	Thank you, Doctor Assham.
	Also not a doctor, but I kind of appreciate that.
	If anyone wants to support us in what we do, become an awakening wonder, join the Invisible Hand or donate on an elevated tier, head to patreon.com on brand and you will have our eternal gratitude.
	It's this which allows us to be editorial independent and dad free.
	Something along those lines.
	As a patron you will also get a shout out on the show and access to our patron-only show Offbrand where we talk about pretty much anything but Russell Brand.
	And please note that while you can easily listen to our audio version anywhere you can find podcasts you can also watch us on YouTube or if you listen in the Spotify app the video should come up there too.
	Most people who do it say that it is worth it so hey that's that's always good.
	Oh, right, right.
	Yeah.
	I'm still not tired.
	I feel fine.
	That's great.
	You're not tired.
	I'm working myself to death.
	I'd rather not lean too close to them.
	I'm like, all right.
	If I slouch, I've got to lean back too.
	We just need, like, a frame to prop you up somehow, you know?
	Oh yeah, like a doll.
	I just need, like, a wire under me.
	Yeah, marionette.
	Play Eclipse, I'll be alright.
	Got no strings on me.
	Right.
	Another quick update right up top.
	Brand is being investigated by a second police force in the UK, Thames Valley Police, as a woman contacted them two weeks ago with new information in relation to reports of harassment and stalking.
	According to the BBC, the woman reported her allegations multiple times to Thames Valley Police between 2018 and 2022, but no further actions were taken.
	Brand has also accused said woman of harassment against him in 2017 So who knows what the hell is going on there, but I hope the truth is out at some point in the near future Either way, it's interesting that these are much more recent.
	So curious curious curious and also I feel like if those charges... it's really hard, at least in America, to get law enforcement to take any kind of stalking seriously.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	It's hard to prove as well.
	Yeah, well, I feel like if you just look at somebody's text messages and call logs, it's not as hard.
	Yeah, I guess it depends how they're doing the thing.
	But yeah, yeah, yeah.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	And I mean, if you've got documentation, I think...
	You're in better shape but it's still just like it's it's it is a it's a sticky wicket to get involved because like it's you know I think that legitimately it can seem like somebody's personal life but um that would open up I think accusations, like if that sticks, then more people might be
	comfortable coming forward saying like, "Well, I did this and I signed an NDA, but NDAs aren't
	supposed to cover criminal activity."
	So maybe people will be comfortable coming forward.
	Fingers crossed.
	It'll be interesting to see how it shakes out, that's for sure.
	So, Brand is chugging away and back to his normal schedule of one show a day on weekdays, but he's still doing them from his house.
	The quality is markedly worse, as is the lack of Gareth Roy to bounce things off, so it's really too much Russell even for Stay Free with Russell Brand.
	It's a lot at the moment.
	Accordingly, I didn't want to have to deal with him while he's pontificating without interruption.
	And I had to put off that interview I wanted to cover twice now.
	So that is what we'll finally be covering.
	This was filmed in the before times prior to Russell being outed as a rapist and sexual assaulter.
	Those heady days of two weeks ago.
	And so tonally might feel a little bit different.
	What's the date of the of his of the interview like the actual?
	Of this one, it was a week or two prior to the allegations coming out.
	So, you know, we're talking like a month ago.
	I will find that out the specific date.
	So I'm going to preface this show by saying that the guest that Brad is interviewing is a real piece of work.
	We've had quite a number of idiots and culpable murderers, but there are a few people that managed to be quite so hateful with quite so much vigor.
	As ever, I'm going to let Brand introduce the guest.
	Hello there, you awakening wonders.
	Thanks for joining me for Stay Free with Russell Brand for a fantastic show.
	It's going to be beautiful and fascinating because we have a guest who can be described with both of those words.
	It's Candice Owens.
	We're also, when we're exclusively on Rumble, going to be discussing the nature of modern censorship with Candice and the obvious need for the protection of free speech and how we bring our personal morality to the complex subject of free speech.
	That's right, Candace Owens, bigot extraordinaire, best known for hating- Ready, hammer?
	Okay!
	We're gonna need the hammer this time.
	She is best known for hating black people, women, and trans people, which is impressive considering she is two out of three of those things.
	She's aggressively pro-Trump, like most of Bran's audience, and has a following of 4.2 million on Twitter, 4.2 million on Instagram, and 2 million on YouTube.
	Pardon me, sorry, YouTube.
	She has a podcast called Candace, whose prominent guests have included Donald Trump, UFC President Dana White, Representative Jim Jordan, and Andrew Tate.
	Oh, and prior to... Pol Pot, and... Yeah, right, the ghost of Hitler.
	Like, come on.
	She's so... Ugh.
	Prior to moving over to the Daily Wire, her content was with PragerU, which is somewhat telling, and back before hitting the big time, she was in fact a guest on InfoWars.
	Candace Owens is another one of those commentators I've always done my best to avoid having to actually listen to, so it's fair to say this episode was a pretty brutal induction into her worldview.
	I know what everyone might be thinking, and it was certainly the first question I had that will now be applied to every guest from the past.
	How did she react to Russell being outed?
	Do you have any predictions, Lauren?
	I know how she has handled similar instances in the past, so prospects are low.
	Okay.
	Surprisingly.
	I'm sure she's going to be fucking evil.
	Like, she's... I don't want to say everything.
	I'm sure she accidentally says stuff that's not evil sometimes.
	If she has, I haven't found it.
	Yeah, I'm sure it's going to be venom.
	I'm sure.
	Well, so surprisingly Candice offers at least something of a nuanced view compared to some of her peers.
	She wrote an article on the subject for the Daily Y which she then used as a script for her podcast.
	I'm gonna read a few choice excerpts from the article.
	So right out the gate she comes out with, quote, when people are in their addictions they do things that are incomprehensible and unimaginable.
	I've seen it with my own eyes and it is utterly confounding, unquote.
	So, right away, her first instinct is to provide cover for Brand on the basis of him being an addict.
	Firstly, not an excuse.
	It's an explanation, but not an excuse.
	Secondly, Brand has been sober since 2002 and rehabbed for sex addiction in 2005.
	And all of the allegations thus far happened after that point.
	Yeah.
	Here's another quote.
	Anytime an onslaught of Me Too victims start shouting, they never have any proof.
	They say something happened a long time ago, but they didn't tell anyone or go to the police or confront the person.
	Then suddenly, where there is a political opportunity to take someone down, they say, oh, Me Too, Me Too, Me Too.
	And I find that to be crap.
	Unquote.
	Yeah, okay.
	When I go in a good direction.
	I don't, like... The thing is... I do, to some degree, having to be her every day is punishment.
	And I get that.
	I think she likes being her, though.
	That's the worst part.
	No, I think that she keeps moving forward like a shark.
	I don't think that she enjoys...
	There are a few people I've witnessed that are so joyless as Candace Owens and Ben Shapiro.
	I don't know.
	I don't know!
	They're so profoundly joyless.
	I don't know.
	We'll see if you feel the same by the end of the interview.
	Either way, Candace Owens pretty vocally against the Me Too movement, but she does later go on to describe the allegations against Brand as credible on the basis of the information provided and the text messages sent.
	So that's interesting, which is very much unlike most of her peers who are saying it's made up, right?
	Did she say that in the same article?
	Yeah, she said, oh, no, no, I find these allegations to be credible.
	The text messages and everything.
	The woman went to a rape crisis center the next day.
	OK, OK.
	And I thought, oh, interesting.
	All right.
	Horrible.
	Yeah, right.
	So it's like horrible views, but OK, you're kind of falling down on the right side of it, I guess.
	And then, well, another quote.
	Despite the fact that we may all love who Russell Brand is today, and I do love who Russell Brand is today, he used to be a leftist commie in the media, the same media who applauded him everywhere.
	He was celebrated by the same media who are now attempting to take him down.
	That is the part that is suspicious.
	Why did the media wait until Brand was clean, sober, married, and on the brink of having his third child to speak out about this?
	Why wait 11 years to bring these allegations out?
	Obviously this is a plot to take him down now that he is standing up and speaking out about big government, Covid and wokeness.
	The media kept his secret when he was their friend, when he was a horrible rotten person, when he was living like Hunter Biden.
	Sorry, I can't keep a straight face through that.
	They were willing to keep and bury everything, but now that he's sober and speaking more conservatively, they choose to take him down.
	That should bother us all.
	Okay.
	Unquote.
	That should bother all of us potential rapists and enablers.
	Well... Yes!
	All rapists and enablers, be afraid!
	Good!
	I hope so.
	Also, stop what you're doing!
	Stop!
	Please?
	So this is obvious bullshit and I'm not going to spend any more effort debunking it than I already have.
	Candace then goes on a jag against YouTube because she hates YouTube but also keeps posting there because it's where her audience are and I am forced to silently remind her for the thousandth time in my head today that they're a private company and can do what they want and I thought that was something you conservatives value.
	Anyway, here's how she ends the article.
	Quote, this is what it means to be a celebrity in Hollywood.
	If you're on the left, they own you, but they will protect you.
	But as soon as you step out of the leftist talking point, they will collect enough evidence to take you down.
	It's as if they are waiting for you to step out of line so they can ruin your life.
	And that's exactly what's happening to Russell Brand, unquote.
	OK, we've pivoted back to bat shittery.
	I'm going to say the same thing to Candace as I did to Jimmy Dore.
	The trick is not to have anything for anyone to find.
	If you don't want to be called a rapist at some point in your life, don't rape people.
	It really is the easiest way.
	Though, of course, Candace thinks that, you know, there's something to these allegations and is defending him anyway and using it to fling shit at the left.
	Well, she is coming at it from a pretty, like, if you're going to be slick, which to be fair, she's slick, is to focus on the man he is now and not who he used to be.
	That honestly to me is like, that's going to be the argument that I mean, now that Kevin Spacey, you know, got out of the charges that he was facing, I'm sure that's going to be the argument that he was trying to support.
	I was predicting more of that narrative, to be honest, in defense of Bran, but it's not come up too much, which surprised me.
	Maybe they know that current him is also indefensible.
	Is also terrible.
	Just, yeah.
	In a possibly different way, in possibly the exact same way.
	Um.
	[laughter]
	We will!
	One way or another, whether we like it or not!
	I did mention previously that talk of Brand's kids came up during this show, which it did with surprising regularity, but I did actually cut all the clips out.
	The long and short of it is that Candice was surprised upon meeting his kids that they were, in her words, unnaturally beautiful.
	Brand took offence and said of course they would be because he's their dad, blah blah blah, not unnaturally beautiful, just beautiful, blah blah blah.
	I still don't think he should be allowed around his kids, and if anyone wants to argue that point with me, please circle back to episode 20.
	Anyway, let's get into Candace's entrance onto the show.
	Now I'm excited and you will be too if you saw our previous conversation because I'm going to be talking to political commentator, host of the Candice podcast, producer and narrator of the new docuseries, Convicting a Murderer on the Daily Wire, the very great, always intriguing, limitlessly confrontational Candice Owens.
	Candice, how lovely to see you again.
	It's so wonderful to be back.
	I really just was very excited about doing this podcast because I had such a fun time with you because at the time we were on such opposite sides of the totem pole, but you were just so kind, such great energy, and I just said to myself, he's going to drift a little away from being a hammer and sickle communist because he's just too happy.
	He's just too substantially happy.
	Okay, first order of business here is that, yes, Candace has been interviewed by Russell before, but not on Stay Free with Russell Brand.
	She was on his old podcast, Under the Skin, back in 2018, in the context of Russell Brand versus Candace Owens, debating the populist movement and whether it will go left or right.
	It was a long while ago before Russell's hard pivot to being a right-wing conspiracy theorist, and so the pair are reunited after five years, which brings me to this second point.
	Russell always says he's not right-wing, and that his ideas aren't about left or right, but Candace Owens recognises one of her own, saying he's just too substantially happy to stay a hammer-and-sickle communist, as she puts it.
	Another way of reading that is that he's too rich, white, and male to stay mad at the system that allows him substantial privilege and platform, especially if it's gonna make him a lot of money.
	And give him access to as many victims as possible.
	Hell yeah!
	It's a fuckin' feast for the guy.
	Why?
	Why did I spend the last several days listening about the Bay of Pigs, and now I have to hear people saying communism in a fake way?
	Like, just an idiot's guide to communism and socialism.
	Really?
	Communism does actually come up in a little bit, but not in the way you expect.
	No, because they don't understand it enough to use the word properly.
	You'll see.
	So the third point is that Candace is on the show to promote her new show, Convicting a Murderer, which seeks to disprove and act as counterpoint to the entire of Making a Murderer.
	I've not looked into it, and I really don't care, but it does seem like the exact kind of intentionally contrarian thing that she would do.
	They are so profoundly uncreative.
	It's like every cell in the marrow of their bones is a black hole.
	It's incredible.
	They just suck any idea out of the world and just pound it with a hammer.
	Yeah, but hey, you know, I wondered if it was something you wanted to check out at some point.
	I know you like your true crime.
	It's funny, like, making a murderer Came out and kind of got a whole section of my friends into true crime, more like, you know, like a wrongful conviction and, you know, like coerced, coerced testimony, coerced confessions, that kind of thing.
	Specific kind of true crime, I guess.
	Yeah.
	And like I and very specifically, a really good friend of mine.
	we were our dogs like to play together and we both made art shit so we would hang out a lot and uh put on you know making a murderer and she was like yeah isn't this shocking no i've been watching front lines since i was in grade school the innocence project you want to hear about angola you want to hear about like what Like, you want to hear about what happens to black people?
	Oh, this white guy's got nothing on them.
	It's like, and it's, I honestly, I am like, I don't think it is a mystery why I'm so fascinated with the criminal justice system, which honestly to me is a more interesting part of true crime anyway.
	Yeah.
	And I don't, I don't even know how you'd be contrary.
	And just like, yeah, all convictions are right all the time, and everyone deserves to go to jail.
	From what I could see, it was more like, oh, Stephen Avery's a piece of shit and deserves to be in prison.
	That seemed to be the direction she was coming from, but again, I didn't really- She only showed two podcasts.
	There are at least, like, big ones that are already counterpointed.
	I dunno.
	I dunno.
	Tell it to Candace.
	Maybe, maybe.
	Definitely possible.
	Honestly, that might be fun to just figure out, like, well, what did you steal?
	Where do you think this came from?
	Well, you know, if you if you need a project because you're not busy enough.
	I'm trying to not yawn.
	It's hard.
	We're almost there.
	We're almost there!
	Caffeine away, Montfrey.
	Caffeine away.
	The two-week press tour that she was doing for this show had auspicious timing for Candace as she'd been suspended from YouTube for two weeks yet again.
	This time for refusing to take down her slew of videos intentionally misgendering and deadnaming trans people while promoting hatred against the trans community.
	Fucking shock.
	What can I say?
	Sure.
	Hell yeah that people are getting suspended for that.
	Yeah yeah that's great.
	It was not that long ago.
	Yeah.
	You could say whatever the fuck you wanted.
	Pretty much.
	And people were like, "Well, difference of opinion, blah blah blah."
	"First Amendment, bleh."
	The fact that action is, like...
	Obviously shit sucks.
	Especially for trans people.
	And for, like, you know, civil rights in general.
	Um, maybe.
	But man, I am, you know, also listening to old news clips and stuff.
	Boy, things are better.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're not wrong.
	You are not wrong.
	It's nice to remember.
	It's true.
	It's true.
	So I'm gonna have to be grasping at straws as far as, like, a silver lining.
	I can feel it.
	I'm trying to shore up right now.
	Yeah.
	We may... this may get dark.
	So, anyway.
	And also, another pithy thing.
	She looks terrible.
	Yeah, the lighting's bad.
	I don't know what's going on with the poofy arms.
	The shoulders are too broad on that as well, because that's definitely the top, it's not her shoulders.
	She looks weird.
	It looks like a stylist fail.
	That's a little fun.
	She usually looks great, and I hate it that she always looks great.
	Not today.
	Yeah, a little bit rough.
	So next we hear a story from Candice that I suspect she'll be telling less in the future.
	It's been really great.
	And also, Russell, I will never forget you.
	You will always be a part of my love story because I met my husband right after I left your podcast that night.
	So whenever people ask how we met, I'm like, I was three hours late to dinner with my husband because I was doing Russell Brand's podcast.
	So I'll never forget you.
	You're my good luck charm.
	Some great things could happen for me after this.
	I am glad that I have this apotropaic quality in your life, that I bring you love and good fortune, Candice.
	There's a word I don't get to say too frequently.
	And yet I find that we are already at a point of conflict because I noticed that you threaded your first announcement, for that's what it was, with the idea that I've somehow been seduced into a political and cultural space that you long knew that I would inertly wander into.
	And I tell you now, I always believed in freedom.
	I've always been anti-establishment.
	I've always been pro the rights of the individuals and the rights of the community.
	I've always been opposed to corporate power and to the combination of states and corporations against the people.
	And I've always believed that when it comes to cultural issues, we must be allowed to form our own opinions and identities.
	And I don't think I was ever a hammer and sickle communist.
	On that point, we're agreed.
	Yeah, okay, I'm with you.
	The problem with Russell Brand is that he can say all these things about always being anti-establishment, anti-corporate interests, and pro-individual rights, and because he very much still dresses up his content as being those things, people believe he's still on the same tip as he was a decade ago when he was telling everyone not to vote because the system's broken.
	In reality, and Candace knows this, Russell is taking right-wing talking points like being anti-vax or pro-Russia or anti-democratic party, wrapping them in a thin veil of humanitarianism intertwined with conspiracy theories, and magically presenting himself as being left-wing while exclusively saying things that right-wing people agree with.
	This is just the game he's playing for profit, and huge swaths of people believe him.
	Post-allegations against him, however, it does appear a little more transparent and, well, desperate to a degree.
	And that's precisely why Candace Owens might be telling the story of how she met her husband a little bit differently in future, I think.
	Yeah, I mean, I...
	I wouldn't tell people that.
	Also, I don't know how she was three hours late to this date, because the podcast was only two hours long, so I'm like, that's just bad planning.
	Also, I don't know how she was three hours late to this date, because the podcast was
	only two hours long.
	So I'm like, that's just bad planning.
	Well, I don't know about that.
	Having actually recorded some podcasts, we know how long it can take.
	True, but yeah, okay, okay.
	Nonetheless, even if the podcast was three hours long, or she spent three hours doing it, I don't see how you can then be three hours late for this dinner date.
	That I just don't get.
	That sounds like a lack of respect for other people's time.
	I just hope she sent a text.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah, you'd hope.
	I will quickly explain who she's married to, because it has some relevance here in a minute.
	Sure does!
	Her full title is actually the Honourable Mrs George Farmer.
	The husband, of course, being the Honourable George Farmer, son of former Conservative Party Treasurer, the Right Honourable Lord Michael Farmer, Baron of Bishopsgate in the City of London.
	That's a fucking mouthful.
	George Farmer, the son, is the CEO of Parler, and mostly tries to avoid the limelight.
	He did, however, once describe the EU as a toxic socialist genocidal super-state, leading me to suspect his beliefs are about as grounded in reality as Candace's are.
	He is also a member of Reform UK, formerly known as the Brexit Party, which was formed by Nigel Farage.
	After a brief engagement, the two got married at the Trump Winery in Charlottesville, Virginia, and the wedding had a MAGA theme.
	It included a MAGA cringe dance party and a cake that featured a Make Weddings Great Again hat.
	What year?
	This was a couple of years ago.
	This was, what, 2020?
	I don't know.
	No, 19?
	19, I think.
	2019, I think this was.
	I thought they'd been married longer than that.
	No, I think it was 2019, I think.
	Also, for folks who don't know, Parler is like Telegram, or it's basically like Gab, it's like a social media site that is unregulated and therefore... Yeah, it's the social media equivalent of Rumble, right?
	You know, just, just, all right shitheads!
	Come here and say horrible things!
	Yeah, but also shitty.
	Yeah, it's also just bad.
	But because people can say... Rumble's pretty bad too.
	His navigating is terrible.
	Awful.
	But because people can say pretty much anything they want, then they'll go there to say horrible racist things, among other things.
	Candice and her bridesmaids and guests all wore red MAGA hats as well.
	Notable guests to said wedding included Larry Elder, Nigel Farage, and Ye West, who has long said he loves the way Candice Owens thinks.
	So that should probably tell you something.
	Well, wasn't she trying to get Kanu as to buy Parler?
	That's what it sounded like behind the scenes.
	There was, that fell apart, I think at the end of 2022.
	'Cause he's a decent businessman, among nothing else.
	Like, he knows not to buy Parler.
	Do you know what, I don't know.
	I... I... I... I...
	I have a question mark about any of the mythology of Ye West at this point, I'm going to be honest.
	I really, I really, any, anything, even musically, even, even any of that, I'm like,
	was it really?
	His actions over the last year or so have really kind of, you know, it's been a sliding scale, but the last year, holy shit.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	I mean, there's been a lot of indicators.
	It's not really out of the blue.
	Not what I know, but I don't think anyone kind of expected a year and a half or a year ago or whatever that he would be showing up on Infowars, for instance, and saying that Hitler is great.
	It was a lot.
	that there are yeah it was just it was it was it was a lot um yeah yeah
	Well, honestly, I don't think that, like, I mean, I feel like there's a lot of terrible decision making for like social, spiritual, kindness, general humanity reasons.
	But the guy can make money and he does.
	Oh, yeah.
	He knows how to make money.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	I think there was some some some wheeling and dealing to get him to buy a stinker of a of a company.
	And he didn't.
	Yeah, maybe.
	I'm dubious of anything nice she says about him in public, because it turned out behind the scenes, they were trying to offload this shitty app.
	Interesting.
	Their personal history goes back a ways so I'm not sure what their personal relationship is at this point.
	I don't care that much either to be fair.
	I didn't know I had to pay attention to that.
	I didn't want to.
	In the next clip, Brand brings back his idea of infusing religion into government.
	Now, when I talk about aspects of socialism, I think it's important to understand that what I'm interested in is compassion and kindness in politics.
	Actually, beyond that, love, And how do we have systems that are able to convey quite basic spiritual principles, I would say, that are common in Christianity and Islam and all great and minor faiths when we look beyond the kind of cultural divisions that can easily arise from religion?
	Well, what it offers us, I think, is the opportunity to infuse our systems of government and control with an emotional and spiritual quality.
	I feel that what we're living in now, it's not right to say nihilistic, because there is so much charge when it comes to meaning in our political space.
	But what there is a lack of, I believe, is spirit and kindness That everywhere we look, there is kind of deception, there is hatred, there is a lack of real vision.
	And I would say that that's prevalent throughout the mainstream, whether it's on the purported left or right.
	What kind of advances have you noticed?
	What kind of changes have you noticed?
	Where do you look optimistically on the intervening years since our conversation?
	Where can you say, well, this has improved, this has gotten better?
	Whatever he says, lack of vision, he's just coding, basically, that there's a lack of religion.
	He's coding that there is a lack of spirituality and all of the other things that he wants in a government, which to me is fucking insane.
	Also, I have no idea what any of that has to do with socialism.
	He mentioned that at the start and then it just kind of fell away.
	That was a word salad.
	Right.
	That was some whoosie-whatsie-whatever.
	Yeah.
	I have stopped the clip here mostly just to point out that this here is the exact same belief the brand's been touting while we've been doing this podcast, that we should all live in a theocracy of some kind, most likely Christian because that's his religion these days, but this time he's couching it in the idea of love and compassion.
	Gotta say, Russell, I know you think secularism is responsible for the downfall of society, as demonstrated in our Dawkins episode, but from my experience I've witnessed a hell of a lot more compassion from those in the secular community than those in religious communities.
	Just my personal experience there.
	Refer to our last off-brand.
	Maybe that too.
	I can enlighten that as well.
	So lack of vision, what I heard as a lack of vision, and I don't necessarily disagree entirely because that is my complaint with the left.
	Not ambitious enough, maybe.
	Well, there is no specific goal we are driving towards as a whole that we can all agree to.
	Now, who does have vision?
	Fascists.
	And they have a very specific, narrow view that they are going to make, whether it's real or not, whether it's grounded in reality or not.
	So, like, the difficulty of uniting the many can be reflected in a lack of vision.
	But the alternative to a lack of vision, I'm not cool with that.
	Yeah, so, well...
	I also agree with you, by and large, especially in the United States, because reality comes along again, like that slap to the face with a wet fish.
	And to be fair, to a degree, even in the UK, and we can get a lot more done over here than you can in terms of what an individual government can do.
	Our government can literally barely keep itself Functioning, but they can rally to ban hoodies in five days.
	Got another shutdown going on.
	So, yeah, no, it, yeah.
	Lack of vision, I think, is a succinct, like, obviously not how he means it.
	Lack of vision, lack of priorities, lack of anything.
	But yeah, the problem is the way he means it every single time that he brings that up is there's not enough religion in government.
	That's how he means that.
	It's just cover and code.
	I don't think that my point here about secular communities being more pleasant than religious communities or more charitable or compassionate is especially ungrounded, especially when you consider what Candace is about to say.
	Well, so I think one of our differences, which we had early on, and I think we still hold, is I actually don't look for compassion and emotion in politics.
	I think that it actually needs to be extracted from politics.
	And I think that part of the reason is that we've moved away from logic and reason and objectiveness and more towards Emotion and compassion, which is subjective and that's why it's problematic.
	And emotion can yield to some really bad things.
	We've seen this over the years when people are being so invested in their emotions that they're not thinking clearly and actually the people that tend to seize control when people are emotional is the government.
	So I am very much like how I feel doesn't actually matter.
	We have to remain objective about these things.
	So the people who capitalise on fear are the government, not possibly right-wing propagandists.
	She's, of course, making a thinly veiled reference to the pandemic there, but we will get to that a little bit later.
	So compassion needs to be extracted from politics, apparently.
	There's too much caring going on, especially in the United States, that country which famously cares so much for its poorest and most disadvantaged citizens.
	Yeah, Candace can talk all she wants about remaining objective and logical and rational, but ask her any questions about the LGBTQ plus community or whether black people or women are at a disadvantage compared to a white man, and she'll get emotional pretty fucking quickly in defense of the white guy.
	Yeah, I'd say the emotion that's out of control the most is anger.
	We're gonna get to that.
	Anger is a massive problem as far as, I just, it's amazing to hear that from a, okay.
	Yeah, no, no, no, I completely, from someone so vitriolic, and we are gonna get to that.
	Um, because it seems to be something.
	Sorry, playing the clip a little early there.
	It seems to be something of a blind spot for her.
	I think it's intentional.
	She seems like an oper- like she seems more like a fucking operator than anybody else
	that I know of in the sphere. There is a question there as well and that will also come up later.
	The next clip is why I mentioned who Candace is married to and I think this is going to upset you.
	And I was just having a conversation this morning with my in-laws about that.
	They're overseas at the moment, and talking about women and women in politics and why I don't know that it necessarily works all the time.
	And I was talking about this.
	I've been talking about this on my show for years.
	You know, women, we are naturally more emotional than men.
	Pretend that there are biological differences between men and women, but there are.
	And that emotion is a wonderful thing when it comes to caretaking and nurturing and raising children.
	But I think in the political realm, we often have our emotions hijacked.
	And when they are hijacked, it can lead, yield great evil.
	And I think we're in a circumstance where there's a lot of emotion being hijacked and yielding great evil.
	Oh, a lot of emotions being hijacked and yielding great evil, huh?
	I wonder who's doing that.
	So Candace Owens thinks that women shouldn't be in politics.
	That's a take.
	Okay, bye!
	Bye, we're here, bye!
	How you feeling, Lauren?
	I know that top shouldn't be in politics.
	How about you, Candace?
	Go away!
	Bye!
	I just, that's, man, oh man.
	She's the ultimate, ultimate pick-me-girl.
	Ultimate pick-me-girl, pull my ladder up after me, like, not feminism, like, female supremacy.
	That's what her, like, her personal, just like Phyllis Schlafly, her personal beliefs are that she wins and everybody else loses.
	But applying it to anybody else, it just... Yeah, she is aggressively self-centered.
	Yeah, me and not for thee.
	Yeah, it is pretty stunning to track, actually.
	Obviously, Candace having had this conversation with the Tory royalty that is her in-laws, I think I can guess how that went.
	To me, the thing that's strikingly obvious is she says women are too emotional to be in politics, and yet is one of the most vocal supporters of probably the most emotional president in history, the guy who openly mused about raining fire and fury upon North Korea, who absolutely must send out his 2am toilet tweets so we can all know his feelings.
	It's a bullshit take backed by nothing but misogyny, And it's also interesting with the background that in 2020 Candace Owens announced her intention to run for office, either in the Senate or as Governor, but that she'd only run against an incumbent Democrat, not a Republican.
	She didn't mention where or when she'd be doing so.
	In 2021, she also tweeted about a potential 2024 presidential run, though she's currently 34, so she'd literally just about make the minimum age requirements by November next year.
	Yeah, that seems to be on hold.
	Seems to be on hold for now.
	You wanna see how much this country still hates a black woman?
	You wanna play that game?
	Again?
	Good luck.
	Her god king is running, so... I mean, like, straight up.
	Emotions are fine.
	We all have feelings.
	And if you pretend that you have more or less feelings, like, all of us have feelings all day, every day.
	We're supposed to.
	Yeah, that's literally how our brains work.
	No one is special or different or unique because they are hiding their feelings or that they are out of control of their feelings and then weaponizing other people.
	Your feelings are fine, feel your feelings.
	Obviously, decision making needs to be reasoned and considered and make those decisions with compassion.
	Yeah, that's a good idea.
	But acting like you don't have more or less feelings than another person is baby brain.
	You're a child if you think that you have less feelings and that makes you better.
	That's an insane thing.
	Honestly, I think that that's way too common as a discourse in general.
	To say someone is dumb or incapable because they feel things strongly, obviously I'm biased.
	But guess what?
	Literally every single one of us is biased.
	That's what a human brain does.
	So pretending that those things aren't true is just a fool's errand.
	Yeah, no, it completely, completely is.
	And there's an irony here because I do think she's dumb, but I will get to why that is later.
	And she thinks she's all unemotional and cold and unfeeling.
	Okay.
	She wishes.
	She wishes.
	Yeah, right, what fucking ever.
	Thus far, Russell has been pretty intent on the whole love and compassion thing, possibly a hangover from their last interview, but next we hear a little bit more present-day brand start to leak through.
	I agree with you that logic and rationalism are necessary for logistics, operations and organisation.
	You can't organise a society based on, I feel very jealous, or I feel very joyful, or I feel very sad.
	But when creating a vision, there has to be an emotional component.
	There has to be an acknowledgement that That humanity has some value, that we are not just material blobs fighting for individual survival and making necessary pacts with one another, whether that's on a global scale or a communal scale, or just the interrelationship between two people for our shared and mutual survival.
	I don't think that emotion is a basis for government, but it is the place from where
	we need to derive our vision. I don't think that it's in any way ridiculous to suggest that kindness
	ought to be a part of politics. Also, I recognise what you're disputing and contesting there.
	I think many of the people that purport to be advocating for kindness and compassion and,
	for example, rights of previously or currently maligned groups are actually not doing that at
	rights of previously or currently maligned groups are actually not doing that at all. They're
	all. They're using those ideas to mask the same kind of be advocating for kindness and compassion and for example,
	using those ideas to mask the same kind of corporatism, authoritarianism, ability to censor,
	ability to surveil, ability to shut down that has always characterised authoritarianism - whether it's
	from the right or the left - or these new emergent terms like centralist and peripheral.
	There's no question that call them a leftist government if you will, although it
	doesn't fit with my terminology.
	The current American administration are an authoritarian administration.
	They're about the imposition of power and control, even the way that the war is discussed, the conversation around the pandemic, the shaming of people that won't align with their perspective on cultural issues.
	For me, I don't see that as emotion.
	I see that as manipulation.
	bit of a bit of a bramble there um so let's nail it at the end but turn that back around towards thyself so let's let's filter out let's filter out some of the covid bullshit and what Russell just said is that Many of the people who purport to be advocating for previously or currently maligned groups are actually not promoting kindness and compassion at all, but are masking some corporatist, authoritarian, censor-happy agenda.
	And the US government has a problem with shaming people who won't align with their perspective on cultural issues.
	That's a weird one.
	I have a problem.
	previous and who's current? Which of those groups is previous? Irish Americans? Italian
	Americans? Who do you think is... I know who he does, but that's a silly fucking thing
	to say. That's crazy.
	Yeah, I do have a problem with what he's saying, as Candace Owens vigorously nods along, because
	it's vague enough to be taken in a number of ways, but when you're talking to one of
	the most vocally bigoted people in the United States, these words have a specific meaning.
	Candace Owens is loudly anti-BLM, anti-MeToo, anti-women in general, one might argue, and
	viciously anti-LGBTQ+, and...
	And any time she gets a strike on YouTube for any of these things, which blatantly violate YouTube's terms of service, she cries foul about her freedom of speech and how the world is a great big censor state out to get her.
	What Russell is doing is agreeing.
	Much more carefully, albeit, but he's at least partially agreeing with her that these groups Candace hates aren't actually promoting kindness or compassion for their maligned groups, as he puts it, but are instead out to censor and silence people.
	Um, this is from the before times yet again, so I'm curious to see whether Russell starts hedging now a lot less.
	After all, he's been demonetized from YouTube and Rumble will let him say whatever he wants without consequence, so why hide at this point?
	Um, we shall see.
	I was picking up on that too, as far as like, people can claim that this is like a debate between contrasting points of view, which it's fucking not.
	No!
	It's grifter synthesis.
	But like, I'm like, oh, y'all want to make this sound like a spirited back and forth, but you're saying nothing.
	You're saying the same thing.
	Yeah, you're saying the same thing, and it's nothing of consequence, and you're not debating it.
	There's no, like, counter positions.
	There's no clear positions at all.
	No, pretty much.
	I mean, yeah, there's barely a point that they possibly disagree on, surely.
	I do wonder, because we've seen a little bit of Russell's fans and what they have to think and say, which is always fascinating.
	That's true.
	I know that there have been previous or I mean like even Dawkins like having um opposing views and he's being like lauded for having opposing views like at what point is he no longer gonna get points for having like oh Jordan a debate with Jordan Peterson or Candace Owens is so controversial and so counter to his narratives it's such a boon to like They can come together and find common ground and they should do that and everyone should and just maintain the status quo and never ever think about anything.
	I mean like I'm wondering when he's just gonna be considered another right-wing pundit.
	I wonder when that's gonna be a thing.
	Yeah, I'm curious as well.
	For me, I am much more fascinated when someone who purports to be left-wing comes on.
	I'm like, oh, that's a rarity.
	And that should say something.
	I mean, Marianne Williamson, I guess?
	I mean, I mean if Marianne Williamson like it.
	No, no.
	No.
	No.
	You see what I mean?
	You see what I mean?
	So when these crystal ball kind of like, but again, she panders to the right.
	Her audience with breaking points is predominantly right wing.
	So it's like, you're not selling me.
	No, this is the thing.
	Even among the left-wing guests that come on, who say that they're left-wing, usually fucking aren't.
	You know, it's not- I think Rainn Wilson is probably the closest.
	I think so, probably.
	Because he just seems like a squishy nice guy.
	Yeah, mostly.
	Perhaps a bit misguided, but you know.
	Right, right.
	But yeah, most of them who say that it's not kind of as egregious as RFK Jr.
	saying he's a Democrat.
	It's not usually that ridiculous.
	But yeah, there is usually a problem.
	And any time one of these fucking chuckleheads comes on, I'm like, oh, Your left wing, interesting.
	Oh, no, that fell off.
	Okay.
	You know, but we'll see.
	We'll see what comes up with his.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	I mean, you're right.
	If it ever happens, I'll be interested.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, me too.
	So Candace gets a little bit philosophical in this next clip.
	Right, exactly.
	So it's the manipulation of emotions, and I think, yeah, I definitely agree with you.
	I just think that I can arrive at the conclusion of our humanity logically.
	I don't need emotions to do that.
	I can logically deduce that we are human beings and that, of course, we shouldn't be doing things, we shouldn't be imparting evil on individuals.
	It's not because of an emotional aspect, but I don't think that we should be imparting evil.
	This is incredibly dumb, not least of all because the very concept of what is good and bad stems at least in part from an emotional response.
	Most humans from a young age, no matter how or where they're raised, will feel bad if they harm another human being.
	Yeah, yeah, or anything.
	Yeah, yeah, an animal especially sometimes.
	There is a core set of moralities coded into us that can in various ways be manipulated or altered as we age, particularly when people like Candace spend a good chunk of their time dehumanizing segments of the population to the point where it becomes okay to harm them because they're no longer human.
	But deep down, most humans know the difference between right and wrong because it makes us feel bad.
	Candice, however, doesn't seem to have much of that feeling left, which I think is proven by her saying we shouldn't impart evil upon others and then spending almost all of her time trying to win the gold medal at the Hate Olympics.
	And making money off of it.
	Shitload of money off it, that's for sure.
	Making lots and lots of money.
	Absolute shit ton of money.
	Next we learn why Candice is the way she is.
	But yes, you're exactly right.
	What we're seeing right now is this authoritarian government across the world that are pretending to care about people, compassion, you know, wear a mask, save lives.
	Well, how could you not want to save lives?
	If you don't want to wear a mask, then you're a horrible person and you're trying to kill everybody.
	And that's why I really think it's important to steel yourself against that sort of a manipulation.
	And when you speak about that, though, They kind of frame you as a harsher person, which is something that I've definitely suffered in the media, is this hardening of Candace Owens.
	She doesn't have a heart.
	It's not that I don't have a heart.
	I just also have a brain.
	And I'm very fearful of government encroaching into our personal lives.
	And I had done everything to insulate my family from that.
	And the best way to do that is to tether people to their brains and, you know, not saying more than their hearts, but just to remember that you do have a brain and you should use it.
	That doesn't even make any sense by the time she got to the end.
	She has a brain!
	That explains it.
	God, I knew there was something I keep forgetting to use.
	So Candace is very fearful of government encroaching into our lives, which is interesting.
	Did I also mention that somewhat predictably she's against reproductive rights for women and actively advertises anti-abortion awareness charities on her show?
	Just sick of the government encroaching into our lives, she is.
	Except your ovaries, of course, because that's just naturally where government belongs.
	Little bit of a hypocrite, one might think.
	Oh yeah, of course.
	I mean, in the same sentence, usually.
	I feel like she's a throwback, almost.
	I didn't willingly listen to any Rush Limbaugh when I was growing up, and I'm still thrilled that he's dead.
	Oh, what a good day!
	I still just remind myself, Rush Limbaugh's still dead.
	When I'm really not, I'm feeling down, feeling blue, like, yeah, but Rush Limbaugh's still dead.
	Because she has, like, that turn of phrase, double speak, down.
	In a way that only, like, Rush Limbaugh There is a psychotic right wing legacy she's tapping into and I mean she's a black woman so the right is going to roll the motherfucking red carpet out for this one
	Oh yeah, and she's been compared to Trump in her kind of unfiltered sort of way.
	She's never been funny.
	There is that.
	And way less charismatic, I think.
	Yeah, also no charisma whatsoever.
	But she's got a motor mouth.
	She can keep talking and say things.
	She can put buzzwords together.
	But the ability to confidently contradict yourself sentence by sentence.
	The confidence is something else.
	That is very Trumpian.
	I think it's Limbaugh.
	I think it's a Rush Limbaugh thing because even Alex Jones's Rush Limbaugh impression isn't as good as the Rush commentator.
	I can keep talking about nothing for five hours every day.
	The confidence, I mean, it's unfounded.
	It shouldn't be there.
	I can tell you that.
	But I am, I don't know, I'm almost jealous of it in a way.
	I'm like, you're 34.
	How can you be that certain of anything?
	Genuinely.
	I don't get it.
	And she's been on this tip for quite a while as well and she has always been this confident and this certain.
	It's like, what the fuck is wrong with you?
	I'm just trying to figure out what her deal is and maybe even try to gain some insight as to what her trajectory will be because if Rush was around today, he'd be just as big.
	He'd be just as huge.
	Um, like, uh, famous and a big fat slob of a pill head asshole, all of those things.
	Philanderer, liar, pathetic, moron, miserable, monster, nightmare.
	Because a lot of the conservative discourse is kind of patterned.
	It's like Ron DeSantis or other politicians trying to be a version of Trump, and they just can't do it.
	But there's some folks are getting close or making their own version, and I feel like I'm hearing and also I'm thrilled.
	I bet you didn't have to be exposed to any Rush Limbaugh at all when you were growing up.
	No, not a single, not an iota, not a single.
	I think I think my first exposure to Rush Limbaugh was probably in a Family Guy episode because he was in one of those.
	I remember that.
	I mean, certainly a cartoonish person, but like it's that kind of like The confidence, the consistency, and then the just, there's nothing in there but appealing to these like base instincts, emotions, if you will.
	Because I don't hear, there's a reason that her star has been rising in this sphere for a long time.
	And I wonder, I mean, it's not, you know, it's never just one thing.
	I'm just wondering how to deal with it and what to expect out of this person, you know?
	And where she's coming from.
	Yeah, I think it can be hard to predict with her especially.
	We'll get into why in a little bit, but yeah, we might have a tough time telling where she's going to go next.
	Well, I guess I'm just listening for it then.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	We'll keep an ear out.
	So we're going to skip ahead a little bit in the interview because she mostly just carries on down the same line of nonsense.
	And then Russell gets into asking an intentionally stupid question.
	empty, hollow political rhetoric isn't leading anywhere.
	Another thing, because you sort of, I guess it's fair to say that your position is
	generally a conservative, how do you feel when issues such as free speech and a broad
	and general anti-war stance appear to now have become conservative issues?
	There's been this extraordinary flip where the liberal, peacenik, cultural revolution, let it all hang out, let's smoke a doobie man party has become the party of have a war, don't question a war, don't talk about potential peaceful or diplomatic solutions.
	And obviously when it comes to censorship, The liberal democratic left, it appears more censorial based on the relationships that have been demonstrated between them and the social media sites, for example, and their use of various deep state agencies to control narratives.
	And in fact, excuse me, just the continuum of censorship across successive administrations, Snowden onwards, you know.
	So, when values like free speech and anti-war can become untethered from one side of the political aisle, what does that do to your position?
	And do you think it's a fair assessment to just acknowledge that these changes have taken place?
	Russell really needs to stop drinking gassy kombucha drinks during his shows.
	Like, the level of flatulence that we alone have documented is bordering on absurd.
	The first thing I want to mention is an obvious slip from Brand highlighting another instance where he's most probably way less fucking knowledgeable than he pretends to be.
	I'm just going to bring the clip back a ways here.
	Conservative issues.
	There's been this extraordinary flip where the liberal, peacenik, cultural revolution let it all hang out.
	The Cultural Revolution was the second reign of Chinese dictator Chairman Mao Zedong, during which millions of people died either through being massacred or starved to death.
	China faced untold damages in almost every way imaginable from this decade-long campaign to purge the country, and this period is often compared to Hitler's Holocaust and Stalin's Great Terror.
	Russell, being seemingly oblivious, has clearly heard the phrase cultural revolution and for some reason lumped it in with the idea of being a peacenik in the 60s.
	Okay, girl.
	Well, yeah, and like what he's identified.
	I mean, the superficial comparison that he's making is like, why are all these liberals not so liberal at all?
	like well I mean it's neoliberalism and also like you've identified the problem which is capitalism
	again. Call me. What happened to the hippies? F**king Reagan. Yeah right. The other thing
	annoying me about this clip is that he's making some Q adjacent swings here without specifics so
	he's saying the liberal democratic left are working with social media companies and deep
	state agencies to control narratives and censor people which...
	I'd love for him to be clearer about because that sounds fascinating.
	The deep state thing also I've noticed and it has kind of like occurred to me since we started this podcast is like just because it's too deep for you to reach with your understanding does not mean it's the deep state.
	Just because it's too deep for you doesn't mean that it's actually a deep state.
	No.
	Usually it's just a couple, like, follow the guy on Twitter if he's still allowed and is allowed to operate on Elon's Twitter, the FOIA request guy.
	There's like two FOIA request guys.
	You want to find out pretty much anything that's going on in the government that seemed clandestine but is now in the public record?
	It's not hard.
	Yeah, no, absolutely.
	Absolutely.
	Way less sexy.
	Way more boring.
	Sorry.
	Pretty much.
	Sorry about reality.
	Yeah, I'm afraid the state is actually pretty fucking shallow and it's just dull.
	Capitalism.
	You've identified capitalism.
	Huh?
	The larger point the brand is trying to make here is, of course, that why is it suddenly bad to be anti-war?
	And I'm struck by this thought fairly often these days, but Russell is exactly the kind of person that would have been completely fine with Hitler invading Poland.
	Based on his stance with Ukraine, he would have said, hey, there's a peaceful diplomatic solution on the table.
	Just let Germany take over Poland.
	It's fine.
	Yeah.
	Fucking great.
	Okay, Russell.
	Yeah, I mean, he's not anti-war.
	He's not anti-war.
	He's pro-Russia.
	Pro-Russia.
	He's anti-Ukraine.
	Pro-Russia.
	Yes.
	Yes.
	Yep, that's it.
	So that was all a bit of a ramble in which Russell just throws a bunch of shit against the wall and lets the guests decide what's gonna stick to the conversation.
	So let's see what- Do they ever actually talk to each other at all?
	There's maybe one moment later on that we catch, but that's about it.
	Am I crazy?
	I just felt talking to the corner of the room.
	Kind of.
	And part of it is the way that these interviews are set up, because I don't know if you've noticed in some of them, the ones done digitally anyway, the guest will be speaking, but their mic won't be switched on for whatever reason.
	So you'll see their mouth moving and you'll catch it later on in this same interview.
	Okay, because I haven't noticed that but also I'm not watching the whole, like you're much more, you're in a position to call that out because I haven't seen a lot of it.
	Like, the stuff that we actually cover is very small portions, but I absolutely believe you if that's the case.
	It's also interesting.
	It happens quite often and, you know, it does kind of take away from any of the natural conversation kind of side of it that could be there.
	It even happened with Ron DeSantis, if I remember rightly, which is kind of crazy.
	You know, just muting their mic whenever Russell is speaking, you know, that kind of thing.
	It's bizarre.
	It's a really, really strange tactic.
	I personally would rather have a little bit of crosstalk, a little bit of, you know, but apparently that's not allowed at Stay Free with Russell Brand.
	It's surprisingly comprehensible.
	Maybe it's just me, but like, I mean, even, you know, Recording, you know, across time zones and through basically a glorified Zoom, obviously it's a challenge.
	You know, we we go through it.
	We have to deal with that, like the challenges of it.
	And I'm using this as an example way beyond that.
	Like, you know what I mean?
	Like, we can still listen to each other and then respond.
	Oh no, it's true.
	It does seem like they're talking at cross purposes.
	But I do also think that another element of that is Russell's style of questioning coming into play again.
	Much like he's just done here, he will throw a bunch of shit out there and then the guest decides what they want to pick up on and will just riff on that.
	And it might just be a phrase of the two minute question that he's asked.
	How do you even answer that?
	Exactly, exactly.
	So they just pick their favorites and go from there.
	So let's see which bit Candace decided to keep.
	Yeah, the shootings are taking place.
	What I would say is the right is still very much pro-war as well.
	I mean, I think we saw this in the Republican debate stage where how many people were saying you had Pence, you had Nikki Haley.
	And this is why we talk about the military-industrial complex, because it encompasses the left and the right.
	But speaking outside of the political players and just to the individuals, yeah.
	I think what's happened, because I've tried to actually assess it, is people that are left-leaning have actually always been emotional.
	And so what's happened, though, is the emotional arguments are now being transpired to make them support things that they've never supported in the past, right?
	So it still works, you know, if you're saying, you know, end the war in Vietnam.
	You know, there's emotions.
	Let's end the war.
	Hippies, okay, we want this to be over.
	And now you're saying, well, no, no, no, go to war.
	Because think about the Ukrainian children.
	Think about how awful Putin is.
	It's still a hijacking of emotions, but the end result, I think, is actually different.
	So they haven't necessarily changed.
	They've perhaps grown more emotional.
	Or I would say the media has grown just increasingly so focused on emotions all the time that they're not even thinking.
	It's just, how could you not feel bad for the Ukrainian children?
	How could you be so awful that you don't want to send billions?
	Who cares if there's no accounting, it's kind of going into a black hole and we're giving
	less to the people that are in Maui.
	You know, it's your job to constantly care about something.
	Here is the current thing that you need to care about.
	That sounds familiar.
	Now that it's been a while, has anyone shot any cans of Bud Light lately?
	Or protested a drag queen story time?
	The left has always been too emotional.
	Yeah, right.
	Yeah, that's sexy Eminem.
	Yeah, perving over a cartoon is also emotional, sorry.
	It's horny emotions.
	That's really... The left is just too emotional, dammit!
	Saying that you shouldn't be emotional about, like, and the Vietnam War, yeah.
	People were pretty emotional watching their friends and colleagues and classmates getting blown to smithereens and having to also blow other people to smithereens.
	You're allowed to be as upset as you feel.
	People were emotional about Iraq.
	That was fucked up as well.
	I was extremely emotional about it, and I was also right.
	You were right and you were emotional.
	You can be emotional and right.
	That shit, ooh, I am so over this particular thing.
	I know, shocker.
	I'm going to be defensive about being emotional, but there is a degree to where Accessing your feelings about a topic, but still being able to understand it and articulate how you feel.
	There's a superpower in that.
	Yeah, no, it's true.
	It's true.
	You, I think, have witnessed enough of my articulate outbursts, which I was absolutely taught about from the young ones.
	I was conditioned from a young age to have articulate outbursts as best I possibly could, or at least really entertainingly insulting ones.
	I mean, it just, it's, It's fucking fine to feel your feelings.
	In fact, it's actually really good.
	A lot of emotional, quote unquote, emotional decision making is compassionate and does make sense and makes you- Especially the kind that she's talking about.
	Yeah, like you identify with humanity, like it reminds you of your humanity.
	And even if you have to make tough decisions, it should hurt.
	It should feel difficult.
	And then you can make those tough decisions.
	Well, even if you're in your feelings, if you practice, because if you don't ever acknowledge your feelings, then you can't control them.
	How could you control them if you don't even acknowledge that they're there?
	Well, I think I'm getting to the bottom of her conception of what emotions are and it does seem to be... Disagree with her?
	That sounds like... To Candace Owens, anger is not an emotion.
	So she can spend all day whipping up as much anger and hatred as she wants because that doesn't count.
	And that also fits with her conception of women being more emotional than men, whereas in reality the patriarchy has ensured that the only emotions men are allowed to express safely in a public forum are aggressive ones.
	But if those aggressive emotions don't count as emotions, then sure, men are less emotional than women.
	I'm sure that's why suicide amongst men is orders of magnitude more likely than women.
	It's the lack of emotion.
	Anyway, all that said, she's quite happy for Putin to invade a sovereign country and do whatever the hell he wants, just like Russell's.
	So, good for her for being a Russian asset, I guess?
	Are they doing it for free?
	Well, this is the question.
	This is the question.
	If they are, then they're fucking idiots.
	I mean, they will be making money off the- Your Soros checks show up, by the way.
	Mine's late.
	Yeah, not yet.
	Okay, can I say, as far as where the money comes from, we've been accused I think a handful of
	times, only because this is really funny to me, that with a couple, like 200-ish dollars a month
	on our Patreon, someone or a couple of people have accused us of money laundering.
	They have to be money laundering.
	Yeah, I think we're money laundering and that we're grifters.
	We're money laundering with $200 a month.
	Money laundering, that's a fascinating one.
	I would make more money.
	I would make way more than $200-ish if I spent a month Picking money up off the ground and physically washing it.
	I would make more than we do a month on Patreon.
	Isn't that adorable?
	Isn't that adorable? I have to assume it's a child. I don't know, like, it's like the reverse of Lucille Bluth.
	People who just don't understand words.
	How much could a banana cost?
	Half a penny?
	How much do you think it costs to live as an adult?
	People who don't understand words, and apparently we're the bourgeoisie to these people, so how the fuck are we supposed to be so bourgeois?
	Yeah, I'm not poor, psychotic, white trash.
	Sure, sure, sure, sure.
	Again, I'm 99% sure that both you and I have lived below the poverty line for most of our lives.
	And I mean, it doesn't even need to be a competition.
	No, no, no.
	We're trying to be competitive about it.
	It's not a competition.
	Race to the bottom.
	It'd be a shitty fucking competition.
	Yeah, but like, man.
	They talk, I think what is amazing to me is how much they talk about Ukraine, the war in Ukraine, and say fucking nothing.
	I'm feeling very Hunter Biden's laptop about it at this point, which honestly, like, that is still, our government is still talking about it.
	I haven't, show me, I don't even care, like, show me a laptop.
	Show me one.
	Show me the physical item.
	Well, I mean, I'm not sure they can do that, but they can show you Hunter Biden's junk.
	Would that do?
	No.
	Damn.
	Okay.
	Quick everybody, next line of proof.
	Really terrible.
	And you shouldn't put that, you shouldn't blow that up and bring it into Congress.
	That's an impropriety on the part of the person that did that.
	But you know what?
	Does anyone know whether he's got a particularly nice one?
	Is it something where he can at least be, well, I've got a good dick.
	I mean, I'm sure they're mad if he does.
	And I guess the point that I'm trying to make is the Ukraine cudgel.
	is so like it is making my brain turn off at this point when they talk it's it's it's it's to the level of like the hunter biden left like y'all have said literally nothing even like the you know our last episode where he was like citing actual reporting like Just say a real thing about- Well, I mean, at that point it was- I know, I know, that's way too much to ask.
	But I'm just like, why do you have to keep saying the same thing over and over?
	It's just like- Yeah.
	No, it is.
	It is.
	It is incredibly stupid.
	It's incredibly stupid.
	Yep.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	OK.
	All right.
	What else you got?
	Well, well, well, next, Russell is mad that his free speech isn't important.
	When it comes to the subject of free speech, when we were talking in the 1960s or whatever about civil rights movement, pro-women, gay, different ethnic minorities or cultural groups, when it was them spearheading that cultural movement, their free speech was important.
	And now I think free speech is... I mean, what the point of principles is, is they transcend an immediate agenda, isn't it?
	It's like your principle doesn't just sort of shift depending on what your objective is.
	Oh, I don't like war.
	Actually, I do like war.
	Okay, so in the 60s, the civil rights movement, gay people and women's free speech was important.
	When it was them spearheading that cultural movement, their speech was important.
	So why is his freedom of speech not equally important?
	And of course, how is it possible that people can believe fighting one war is bad and a different one is good?
	I don't think I really need to explain the difference between an offensive war and a defensive war to Russell.
	He knows.
	He knows the difference.
	He knows that Putin is an autocratic dictator.
	He's come close to saying it on his show.
	He just doesn't care because this lion earns him way more money from his alt-right audience and has the side benefit of cosying him up to Russia where he might get some of that sweet, sweet propaganda money if he isn't already.
	I'm annoyed that I'm hoping they're getting a paycheck.
	Because I'm so bored with what they're saying.
	Yeah, right.
	Because they might not be.
	They might not be.
	It might just all just be just parroting the narrative.
	Well, just benefiting, yeah.
	Contributing to the milieu that is beneficial to them specifically, obviously.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	It absolutely could just be that.
	At which point, that's just sad.
	I mean, come on.
	Especially to go at it this hard and this often.
	Fuck me.
	Like, if you're not getting paid, you know, who gives a shit?
	Plus, you know, Russell- Yeah, if you weren't getting the occasional five grand transfer from Moscow, at least.
	Yeah, from the Kremlin.
	Come on.
	Russell probably should be cozying up to Russia at this point because he might need to escape at some point soon.
	So, you know, I would, maybe that's why.
	Maybe that's why.
	I feel like he'll do it here.
	I feel like he'll be here.
	He'll be fine.
	Which sucks.
	It's definitely possible.
	Next, we get some mental gymnastics going on.
	And it seems that what's happened is that war has become packaged in quite unique ways.
	And I agree with your analysis that it's emotionally packaged, but what it appears, the genuine power behind it appears to be an ulterior or transcendent power, depending on your perspective, in specifically the military-industrial complex, are able to make sure that the American project Remains a military one for economic rather than ideological reasons.
	And I reckon I suppose that that's a rational discourse and a rational analysis.
	But for me, it comes from an emotional place because I think it isn't right to kill people and use violence as a way to resolve disputes.
	So it's sort of a fusion of both emotion And rationale, because if, you know, because rationale can lead to genocide, brutality, and so can emotion.
	So, yeah, I wonder what you thought about that little moral snake's nest I flung your way.
	He thinks he's doing so well.
	The cognitive dissonance here is outrageous.
	So it's wrong to kill people and... It's hard to follow, legitimately.
	Yes, no, it is.
	It's wrong to kill people and commit violence to resolve conflicts.
	Tell me that again when you're not pinning a screaming woman down, Russell.
	It's wrong, it's wrong to kill people and yet Putin's invasion of Ukraine and murder of thousands of Ukrainians including bombing hospitals is completely fine and justified.
	If pressed on the subject I've little doubt he would weave conspiracy after conspiracy about how it wasn't really hospitals and how NATO somehow set Putin up or whatever but if he truly believes any of what he said then I sincerely hope he's deeply Deeply depressed at having to spend so much of his time defending a murderer and genocide attempter.
	Yeah.
	Or even just gay people in Russia.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	What's happening to gay people in Russia?
	Nothing good.
	Nothing good.
	Nothing good at all.
	So come on.
	So where do we think that Candace Owens is going to land on what Russell has just said?
	I hope she gets a little mad.
	Interesting.
	Interesting.
	All right.
	Let's find out.
	She's just been a snooze so far.
	Let's find out.
	No, I actually, I totally agree with you.
	No, I'm shocked.
	I'm shocked.
	Even from the very beginning, day one, it's like we just pull out of Afghanistan.
	Now you're telling us that we need to all focus on Ukraine and the American mindset is Kind of being set to believe that we constantly have to be worrying about everybody else's problems, right?
	That if you say, okay, we have plenty of problems here on our own.
	Why don't we focus on those?
	That you're somehow rotten and you're somehow backwards.
	And again, there's no accounting for it.
	You think about you've got IRS agents that can, God forbid you send $200 on PayPal.
	That's right.
	You can be fined by the IRS.
	I can log into my bank account and I can see every single charge.
	But we have no idea where billions of dollars are going into a black hole.
	And it's very obvious that there are kickbacks and this is why the politicians want to keep
	these wars going.
	I mean, that to me is just a rational, logical conclusion that most people don't see when
	the current thing arrives.
	Okay, so that's a logical, rational conclusion that's not based on any emotion at all.
	Ah, bullshit.
	The emotion specific to what she's saying is betrayal.
	The feeling of having been betrayed by politicians lying and or cozying up to various industries for profit.
	That betrayal is a feeling or an emotion.
	It's it's a pretty potent one and it's the only thing backing up her claims here because she has no evidence for the things she's saying.
	It just feels true based on how she feels.
	Logical and rational my lily-white arse.
	Also, there is some pretty detailed accounting available for how and where the money towards you could The Ukraine war is going.
	If I wanted to prove a point, I could regale you at length about the number of various types of tanks, missiles, mortars and anti-aircraft systems being sent over by the US government, or how many billions are going to what specific portions of military assistance, what's going towards economic support and what kind, and what's going to humanitarian aid, but I suspect that might beleaguer the point somewhat.
	It's fair to say that the information is all out there within fairly easy reach after a simple Google search, but doing so wouldn't serve Candace's narrative, so she'll just throw that by the wayside, I guess.
	Well, and if you really want the Pentagon to be audited and to have a full accounting of their budget, which they don't, then you should go after the conservative war hawk politicians that have blocked any legislation or any investigation of the Pentagon's budget.
	If that's her real complaint, Which I doubt it is.
	Then I know where you can direct your attention, but I don't think that's what she means.
	It is interesting that she could just say, like, it's just a black hole of money, even though, like, I've seen breakdowns of the money that's, like, readily in my social media feed.
	It's not hard to find.
	Yeah, no, no, it's very clear.
	There are links from various news sites, from fucking foreign policy, from all over the place you can find these breakdowns.
	It's really not hard to find.
	So now I'm gonna need to preface this next clip by saying that Candace Owens has a habit of, whenever she is discussing the trans community, she instead refers to us as paedophiles.
	It makes her talking about getting censored quite confusing.
	Oh, really?
	YouTube would suspend you for talking about pedophiles?
	No, of course they wouldn't.
	It's the repeated vitriol and hate being directed towards the trans community she keeps getting strikes for and it does become somewhat obvious why.
	So wait, what do you think about YouTube censorship then, Candice?
	I absolutely hate it.
	I'm on a ban right now.
	I'm always in trouble with YouTube.
	And what's really surprising in your earlier question about whether or not they're pushing mainstream talking points, I think it's much more nefarious than that.
	It's really scary.
	The groups that they allege are protected.
	I think all of my strikes I've ever gotten on YouTube are all pertaining to the topic of pedophilia.
	and they try to say, "Well, you can't talk about pedophiles if they're gay or if they're
	trans," even though we're reporting on actual news stories and talking about what's actually
	happening.
	And for me, it's not a battle that I'm willing to give up.
	So I continue to talk about it and I endure these strikes and these periods because I'm
	a parent now.
	So this is one category that I'm not going to say, "Well, just find me on a different
	platform and we'll talk about it."
	It is something that needs to be talked about.
	There's obviously been an explosion of pedophilia light, as I like to call it.
	school systems in America. I'm not sure if it's as prominent in the UK school
	systems and you can let me know but this this agenda operating under the guise of
	LGBTQIA by the way, tacking on extra letters and this is what happens. These
	social justice movements never end right? It's the NAACP, okay now you have the
	same rights as white Americans.
	Oh, but now we have another battle to endure.
	It's against the police officers.
	Glad.
	All we want is gay marriage.
	Love is love.
	Second you get gay marriage, suddenly you're like, well, what about trans bathroom signs?
	Oh, okay, now we've got the trans bathroom signs.
	Well, we need to make sure that children are allowed to pick their gender in the classroom.
	It's never ending.
	And I don't understand what two gay men wanting to be in a relationship has anything to do with my children being enrolled in a school and needing to learn about 26,000 genders that don't exist.
	And as a parent, this is my hill to die on, so the YouTube censorship surrounding that topic makes me very uncomfortable.
	Good.
	So she doesn't understand what two gay men wanting to be in a relationship has to do with her children in a classroom.
	I will happily clear that up for you, Candice.
	This may shock you, but once, those two gay men were children.
	They were children who didn't understand why they felt different or weird.
	They most likely were unaware that loving someone of the same gender was even an option, or if they were aware of it, it was because the very concept of being gay was used in a casually derogatory way.
	Children were taught very early on that it was a bad thing to be gay, and it doesn't even have to have been someone saying it explicitly.
	I personally have plenty of vivid memories from my own childhood of adults and other kids responding with disgust to the very idea of two men kissing.
	The effect that this can have on a person's self-perception is damaging to the extreme, to the point where LGBTQ plus youth are four times as likely to attempt suicide than their heteronormative peers.
	The Trevor Project estimates that more than 1.8 million LGBTQ plus youth ages 13 to 24 Seriously consider suicide each year in the US.
	That's 45% of the total.
	Consider suicide each year, including more than half of transgender and non-binary youth.
	And at least one attempt suicide every 45 seconds.
	The black transgender and non-conforming community has been found to face discrimination to a higher degree than the rest of the trans community, which is due to the intersection of racism and transphobia.
	A survey by the National LGBTQ Task Force found that among the black respondents, 49% reported having attempted suicide. 49%.
	41% of respondents reported homelessness at some point in their lives, which is more than five times the rate of the general US population.
	And because of people like Candace Owens, LGBTQ youth are much, much more likely to face rejection from their parents and families.
	In a survey conducted by The Trevor Project of nearly 34,000 LGBT youth, those with supportive families reported a suicide attempt rate that was less than half of those without supportive families.
	In a sample of 84 transgender youth, those that reported being strongly supported by their parents had a 93% lower suicide attempt rate.
	That's a 14-fold difference.
	Small sample size, but still.
	They know all that stuff.
	And black trans women, in some areas of the country, have like a life expectancy of like 35 or 40 years old.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Like on average.
	It's crushing.
	It's absolutely nightmarish.
	It's absolutely nightmarish.
	It's funny, I'm noticing it more with Candace Owens than, like, with Russell.
	It's like, she's listing all these things that, like, clearly they're, like, conservative dog whistles.
	But she's, like, listing all these things without, like, she's kind of letting the, like, allowing the audience to fill in the anger because she doesn't want to seem angry.
	Because if she's not angry, she wins, I guess.
	Say whatever you want, but if you're calm, then you're right.
	Cause you are stupid.
	Um, the dog whistles, I was, I'm like, I'm not responding to them.
	So I'm just like, yeah, no gay marriage.
	Cool.
	Like I'm just like, I'm, I'm, I'm hearing such a different, statement that I'm just like I I mean beyond like the pedophiles thing because I'm like oh you're talking about youth pastors is that did you did you get videos taken down about youth pastors or well well so one of one of her audience in one of her podcasts asked her um like oh isn't there a problem in in the catholic church you know and and and I don't know maybe less so in the protestant church but definitely in the catholic church you know of of of the of this happening and
	And what she said was, oh, well, I think that's a problem of gay men entering the priesthood.
	That's what the problem is.
	So, yeah.
	So just not basing, yeah.
	Not basing it in reality at all.
	If you never learn the reality and if you never learn the statistics of what is actually happening out in the world, you never have to confront the reality.
	Again, our last Off-Brand episode, I can, I outlined pretty clearly where the actual pedophile and sexual assault epidemic is happening.
	Yeah, and it's not within circular communities.
	Not where she says.
	But where do schools come in, right?
	Because that's where Candace is apparently taking the most issue.
	She's a parent now, so now she cares.
	So, for a start, having at least one accepting adult can reduce the risk of a suicide attempt among LGBTQ young people by 40%.
	That's one adult.
	40%.
	And if you're not finding that person at home, there's a chance that you might find them at your school.
	Studies show that LGBTQ youth who report the presence of trusted adults in their school have higher levels of self-esteem, and access to supportive peers is protective against anxiety and depression, including among those who lack support from their family.
	And there's literally nothing surprising about any of this, but according to a study from 2003, normalizing education about sexualities and genders can help prevent adolescents from resorting to suicide and suffering with drug abuse, homelessness, and many psychological problems.
	Like, because of course!
	Fucking duh!
	I don't know whether Candace Owens knows these facts.
	I don't.
	The bigger question is if she did know them, whether she would give a fuck.
	It doesn't seem that way.
	There's a part of me that hopes that one of her kids ends up somewhere on the LGBTQ plus spectrum because perhaps It would force her to confront the reality of what queer youth has to go through, but I'm not sure I can hope for that wholeheartedly because no queer youth deserves being raised in an environment with such abject hatred for who they are.
	The last thing I want to address is Candace's claims that any social justice movement is never-ending.
	So women, you can get the vote, you know, what more do you want?
	You know, you can vote now.
	Black people, ah, so you get murdered by cops at disproportionate rates, but you can use the same water fountains as us now, so what's the big deal?
	Candace either has a complete lack of understanding of what equality or equity is, or more likely, a deliberate and intentional presentation of ignorance to these facts.
	Taking one step down the path of equality does not mean you've magically come to the end of the path and everything's now equal.
	It doesn't work like that, and Candace knows that, I think.
	Because one interesting tidbit about her career is that back in 2015 she was the CEO of Degree 180, a marketing agency that included a blog written by Candace and some other commentators.
	That year she wrote a column describing the quote batshit crazy antics of the Republican Tea Party and finished with quote The good news is they will eventually die off peacefully in their sleep, we hope, and then we can get right on with the obvious social change that needs to happen immediately."
	In 2016, the same blog featured a piece mocking Donald Trump's penis size.
	So, what happened?
	Where was the pivot?
	Well, you don't have to look very hard.
	In 2016, Canada's launched a website called socialautopsy.com, where she said she'd expose internet bullies by tracking their digital footprint and encouraging users to take screenshots of offensive posts and send them to the website where they'd be categorized by name.
	According to the Daily Dot, quote, people from all sides of the anti-harassment debate were quick to criticise the database, calling it a public shaming list that would encourage doxing and retaliatory harassment.
	Unquote.
	People on both sides of the aisle thought it was dumb and bad.
	In a response, some people began posting Candace's private details online, doxing her.
	On top of that, Candace began to receive abusive and racist messages through the email associated with the Kickstarter account she had set up to fund Social Autopsy.
	And it was here that the pivot came, because with zero evidence, she laid the abuse squarely at the feet of Zoe Quinn, the original victim of Gamergate.
	Quinn had gotten in touch with Candace to voice concerns about social autopsy and also to warn Candace of the dangers she herself faced from the Gamergate community.
	They spoke on the phone, it didn't go well, and within a short time frame Candace was on the receiving end of a torrent of abuse.
	By the next morning, Candace had convinced herself it was all Zoe Quinn's doing,
	and she was a liberal, so by all accounts, really, it was liberals that were the problem.
	She said at the time, "Everything happened all at once.
	Things don't go viral like that, okay? It wasn't viral, it was contained. It was contained
	within one community, the gaming community. That's not how viral works. Viral's
	viral." To which I say, Candace, you're dumb. She showed a clear misunderstanding of how trolls
	work, especially as the Kickstarter was posted by someone to 4chan, and is anyone particularly
	surprised at what came after?
	No.
	Just Candace.
	Well, well, almost just Candace.
	You see, a bunch of journalists picked up on the story and mostly spent their time mocking Candace's idea for being dumb and bad, and Candace herself for being dumb and not understanding the internet.
	However, the only publication that wrote the story from her point of view was Breitbart.
	She's quoted as saying, "...it changed everything for me."
	Before that, she believed that Breitbart, which has a history of peddling alt-right bullshit views, was a white nationalist, white supremacist, racist publication.
	That's what Candace had previously thought.
	Fucking bang on the money.
	But from there, after they defended her, she started reading it every day.
	She devoured works by conservative economist Thomas Sowell, listens to interviews with libertarian radio host Larry Elder, watched speeches from free market theorist Milton Friedman.
	She turned on Fox News for the first time.
	Meanwhile, Trump's anti-media rhetoric and broad allegations of fake news were doing pretty fucking well, and Owens found herself nodding along.
	In 2017, she said, quote, I became a conservative overnight.
	I realized that liberals, liberals were actually the racists.
	Liberals were actually the trolls.
	Social autopsy is why I'm conservative, unquote.
	Fucking hell.
	No, you didn't.
	No, you didn't, girl.
	No, that was you the whole time.
	You have nothing inside of you except for greed.
	That's what you want.
	That's what you are.
	You're a gaping maw that needs to constantly devour.
	Yeah.
	That's all you are.
	Human representation of the id.
	I mean, that's just...
	How obvious is this?
	Like, it's just so plain.
	I mean, yo.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Man, I wish hypocrisy mattered.
	I really do.
	Mm-hmm.
	Ever one time.
	It doesn't.
	I can tell you no amount of fawning from conservatives, white supremacists, racists, is gonna win me over.
	You know what?
	No.
	I can tell you in my 20s, I wouldn't have either.
	It's not just because I'm old.
	No.
	They could give me a shitload of money and I'd still be like, HA!
	You're a bunch of cunts.
	I mean, I've actively had to leave successful aspects of my life.
	To avoid that, yeah.
	For my own principles and not, like, girl, that's not the right way to live.
	Don't do it.
	You flip-flopping little shit.
	Now, in the next clip, we get back to the awful trans-hating nonsense, which Russell asks a question about.
	That said, I want you to keep in your mind that Russell Brand groomed and sexually assaulted a 16-year-old girl when he was 30 years old.
	What do you imagine is the agenda of those you oppose?
	What do you genuinely think is the reason?
	Because, you know, I know the kind of stories you cover.
	I know how it would be reported in some portions of the media.
	People would say, like, misgendering and things like that.
	And you know me, right?
	That's not the sort of thing that I would ever do.
	If someone wants me to say something, you know, the same way as I call someone mister or doctor or whatever, if they ask me to, someone says, call me like whatever.
	I'm like, it's for me.
	Just because of that principle of kindness that I've previously mentioned.
	With regard to this issue, are you saying that you believe that paedophilia, obviously I think we've both agreed that paedophilia is distinct and separate from other forms of, it's a matter of abuse because it's a matter of consent and children can't offer consent, they're too young, it's just plain and simple abuse.
	So What do you think is culturally happening?
	Do you think paedophilia is being normalised?
	And to what end?
	To your end, Russ.
	If paedophilia is abuse and children can't offer consent, why do you do it?
	To my ear, in that question, it sounds as though Russell is aware that Candice is talking about trans people when she says paedophiles, and is trying to make it clear that paedophile is a separate and distinct thing.
	But he's doing so without actually naming the issue, which is nothing short of fucking cowardice.
	He can present himself as being free and loving and kind as much as he likes, and that may very well be the way he personally interacts with members of the LGBTQ community.
	But the bitter reality is that he then spends all of his time platforming and promoting the most vicious opponents to LGBTQ rights, like Candace Owens, Tucker Carlson, and Ron DeSantis, all of which have blood on their hands, either for their hateful rhetoric, or in DeSantis' case, the laws he's brought in as Governor of Florida.
	In each case, there is little or no pushback to Russell's guests, and so this man is no more of a fucking ally than they are.
	I honestly, like, I do wonder what, like, 2013 Russell would say to her right now.
	Obviously they wouldn't have never, they've never been in the same room, but I am curious because I do feel like they're, like, the self-righteousness has always been with him.
	Yeah, that's true.
	And so, like, how would you react?
	Because, yeah, this is, like, you, Your character and your integrity shows when the rubber hits the road.
	You're not getting your medal tested when it's easy and when you're getting paid and when you're in this comfortable, easy-breezy conversation.
	Say something, Russell.
	Honestly, I feel like that was genuine, like, discomfort.
	And he could have said something.
	This is when you speak up.
	When you know someone is being hateful.
	Had he literally just said the words trans people, when he was saying pedophilia is separate and distinct from... From trans people.
	He trailed off.
	Had he just said fucking from trans people, I would have gone, yes, thank you, good job.
	Are you calling all gay people and trans people pedophiles?
	Is that what you're saying?
	Yes or no?
	And then make her answer yes or no, and then disagree or agree, depending on where the conversation goes.
	That's like what an interview is.
	I mean, she would answer yes, but yeah.
	Well, but I'm saying, like, how?
	Yeah, that's what this should be.
	It's what this should be.
	Instead, I'm going to weasel my way out of it instead.
	And I'm glad that you brought up DeSantis because, and his policies, because we cannot forget that eroding the school system, citing the statistics that you just read off, If you are eroding the school system and the protections that are provided sometimes from parents of children, from a kid's parents, then yeah, there is blood on his hands.
	There is so much pain and anguish that these kids do not have to go through, and we're past this, and we're sliding backwards.
	Keep an eye on the attack on the education system because that's where they're gaining ground and it's scary and these kids don't need to be fed to the wolves.
	It's not right.
	Oh boy.
	In the next clip we get something that was debunked quite some time ago.
	Yeah, it absolutely is being normalized.
	I mean, they've already come up with another term for it.
	You're seeing college professors say that it's this push that it should be called minor attracted people, that the word pedophilia is not something that should be used.
	That's scary.
	You're softening pedophilia.
	And when you see things of this nature and then you take a look at the books and why they're trying to introduce this to kids that are quite literally in kindergarten, first grade.
	I mean, you're talking about kids for five, six and seven years old.
	Why else would you want to talk to them about their private parts and their gender?
	It doesn't make sense.
	Teach my children arithmetic.
	Teach them hard academics.
	And it's not about being accepting because you have children.
	Could you imagine if every single thing that they said you wanted to affirm?
	I literally yesterday woke up and my son said he wanted to drive the big car.
	It's important to tell my child, no, he can't drive a car.
	And so by trying to assign, to say to kids, you actually are smart enough and you do have the autonomy separate from your parents to make decisions.
	What are we setting them up for?
	You know, we're setting up the idea that you can, you're an adult, you're, you're a little adult and don't listen to your parents and your parents are backwards, which of course is the pedophilia thing is just going to be right behind it.
	And I've got my eyes on that.
	I really do believe that that's what's happening right now.
	Oh, your son wants to drive the big car.
	Does he stay up at night crying because every fibre of his being feels like he should be driving the big car and because nobody recognises that he's driven to suicidal ideation?
	Does he hate himself, his body and his own name because he's not allowed to drive the big car?
	Fuck off with this moronic comparison!
	Anyway, Candace is connecting two things that have zero connection because she's a malicious idiot.
	There's not a push to call pedophiles minor attracted people.
	It's true that in 2021, Dr. Alan Walker, an assistant professor in sociology and criminal justice at Virginia's Old Dominion University, said the phrase minor attracted person or MAP carried less stigma than the term pedophile, adding that having an attraction to minors doesn't mean the person is doing something wrong, As long as it isn't acted on.
	Quote, from my perspective there is no morality or immorality attached to attraction to anyone because no one can control who they're attracted to at all.
	Unquote.
	He was talking in response to the book A Long Dark Shadow, Minor Attracted People and Their Pursuit of Dignity.
	Primarily, he was researching paedophiles.
	In his words, in hopes of gaining understanding of a group that previously has not been studied in order to identify ways to protect children.
	He was then put on administrative leave and ultimately had to resign.
	Now, yeah, because of this, when this came out, there were protests, there was fears for his safety, there were all kinds of things.
	Now, there is probably a conversation that should be had somewhere about the distinction between someone who is attracted to children and someone who sexually assaults children.
	But the key point is that no one is saying that the first thing isn't a problem.
	Like, societally, having adults who are sexually attracted to children is a problem.
	The issue is, if there's a lack of a safe space for these people to come forward and seek treatment and help of any kind, they're going to deal with this on their own.
	And that is almost certainly going to either lead to many more cases of children getting sexually assaulted when this person finally snaps, or it's going to lead to their death, probably by suicide.
	There's also another important distinction in that many people who have sexually assaulted children aren't attracted to children.
	Studies have shown that the main driving force behind sexual assault, particularly with children, is actually the power imbalance, not necessarily the physical attraction.
	This might ring some bells with Russell's behaviour.
	In any case, Candace uses this whole conversation to instead link it to whether children should be taught the absolute basics of sexuality and gender when they're young.
	Oh, that's a lot.
	Well, they should be taught consent.
	Well, Russell says they should.
	And that's what they have a problem with, which is fucking outrageous.
	And especially like this.
	So, yeah, there's, I think, I don't remember if it's Denmark?
	But I mean one of the Scandinavian countries is like trying to start a program where they can help people who have pedophilic tendencies that are alarmed by them.
	Yeah, I think I saw something like that.
	I think, honestly, I think we have a similar thing here.
	I think there is a number you can call.
	I think that is a thing that we have.
	Every- because in America- It should be everywhere!
	Like, there is no- there's no real option because if you, like, if you- especially if something has happened as a result of the feelings, then that's illegal and you're gonna go to jail and you're gonna be- like, I mean, it's that- there's no, like- I think it might have been at the end of this podcast, Hunting Warhead, which was difficult to listen to, but it was also really interesting.
	I mean, it's also really important.
	But yeah, the way that you deal with this is not hiding it.
	The way that you address pedophilia in society is not by ignoring it and just saying like, ew, yuck, and just like turning away from it.
	Just like your feelings, if you just ignore them, you can't address any of it.
	They get worse.
	It just gets worse.
	It gets worse.
	It doesn't get addressed.
	It gets worse.
	People also like misunderstanding the concept allows misinformation to proliferate.
	Yep.
	Yep.
	It's a cycle that needs to be stopped.
	Yes.
	And the only way to do it is say, look, please come forward and we will help you.
	And we will help you and make sure that bad things don't happen.
	And that is the only way we can deal with this.
	Otherwise, it's just going to get fucking worse.
	As to her points with schools, I had to look at, you know, what is actually being taught at what ages and in what states, right?
	So I've had some help here from the Guttmacher Institute, who are a reproductive health charity, And I've got a breakdown of what state allows what and when.
	Firstly, let's deal with the age issue.
	Sex education doesn't seem to be happening in any states prior to fifth grade, so when kids are like 10, 11.
	And even then, the aim is to understand that different sexualities exist and to help prepare kids for puberty.
	Not really going into details about sex or any of that yet.
	Just, just, hey, you've got this big thing coming and it might feel weird.
	I'm not overly clear what Candace is referring to when she says five and six year olds are being taught sexuality or are being asked about their genitals because I've not found anything.
	Is she lying?
	Yeah, no absolutely.
	That or it could very well simply be the fact that gay men and women exist and having to explain to a kid that sometimes love is between a daddy and a daddy.
	But who knows with this woman.
	Fun thing to kick off.
	Did you know that only 28 states in the U.S.
	mandate sex education?
	And of those 28, only 21 of them mandate discussion of contraception?
	I am honestly quite surprised that the U.S.
	hasn't just become a giant fucking petri dish at this stage.
	21 states!
	That is playing it fast and loose.
	And eliminating Planned Parenthood exacerbates the problem.
	Yeah, because conservatives think that Planned Parenthood is just a fucking abortion factory, when no, that's where you get any, like especially like anybody under 30, anyone that is uninsured or underinsured, guess what?
	If you have an STI, if you have Any reproductive health issues, man or a woman or a who's he, what's he, anybody in between, that's where you go.
	Yep.
	That was the only health care that I had access to for a vast amount of my adult life is Planned Parenthood because they usually like have a sliding scale like and you can and I mean women need to like women have Reproductive health needs just by existing.
	And that's the only place that we can get it.
	Only place that we can get it.
	Yeah, exactly.
	Very often.
	And they're closing left, right, and center with, oh my god.
	In the US, only 15 states require discussion of sexual orientation in sex education.
	So that's 15 out of 50.
	Of those 15 states, 11 of them are inclusive in their teachings, but discussion of sexual orientation in the classroom is banned in Kentucky.
	And in Florida, Iowa, Mississippi, and Louisiana, they're allowed to discuss other sexualities, but only negative information is allowed to be shared about them.
	That's insane.
	Which is fucking insane, and so much worse than just banning it.
	At that point I'd go the way of Kentucky, just don't fucking talk about it.
	Like, Jesus.
	How is that even in legislation?
	Honestly, that's unbelievable to me.
	It is insane.
	It can only be negative.
	Yes, yes.
	How the fuck is that legal?
	Wow, okay.
	But here's the thing.
	I know state's rights and all that bullshit, but come on!
	No, no, no, I know.
	Well, you're, yeah.
	Oh, man.
	Yeah.
	No, there's, this is a deep well, because with, I know in Missouri, if you go and you get an abortion at the two clinics that are still open in the state, if they even still are, they are required to tell you, by law, a whole set of things That are lies!
	It's like, government-mandated lies about your pregnancy and about abortion, and like, they just have to lie, so I'm sure it's the same kind of just, like, backwards-ass harebrained bullshit that's handed down from some yokel in a statehouse- I mean, in the Missouri Statehouse, let me tell you.
	A real cast of characters.
	You would think because, you know, LGBTQ+, etc.
	are supposedly a protected class, that there should be, I don't know, maybe some federal oversight on that specific subject, but no!
	States' rights may be... Well, that's also, like, that's the, that's like the Heritage Foundation, that's like, you know, Federalist Society, they are constantly, I mean, even if someone wants to fix that in a, like, it would have to go through the legal system, and they would have to probably go to, like, there's so many trigger, like, Lawsuits and laws that even making it okay would be impossible.
	So, I mean, the type of brain trusts that are making these particular kinds of laws, and they're passing this kind of legislation, like Todd Akin from Missouri, who's a Missouri legislator who said, I'm paraphrasing, but, That if it's a legitimate rape, then a woman's body has a way of just shutting that down.
	That was incredible.
	It was incredible.
	And that man wanted to be president!
	He wanted to be president!
	He was in charge of me at that time.
	That was a conversation when he wanted to be president!
	It was a horror.
	Oh, that was good.
	I gotta say, for comedy from across the pond, that was gold.
	That was fucking gold.
	I mean, I've also like gas outside of the metropolitan area that I lived in.
	Yeah, in Missouri.
	Yeah, so those apples don't fall very far from the trees, but the other Oh, the other.
	I mean, The other, like, profoundly Missouri state house dude said something about, like, recently, that he knows personally people that were married when they were 12 and they're still very- or, like, someone that got married when they were 12 and they're still very happy, which is why laws about minors getting married are still on the books.
	Oh my god.
	And those kind of- yeah!
	Yeah!
	She was groomed, what do you expect?
	And he was so fucking indignant whenever he said it to you.
	Fucking Stockholm Syndrome, Jesus Christ.
	That's absurd.
	Well, what have I been warned?
	I mean, listen, we talked about an off-brand last week.
	Yeah, go to our last off-brand everyone, Jesus Christ.
	I'm telling you, this shit is everywhere.
	These people.
	are everywhere.
	Yeah.
	And they're in just the right place to make gigantic problems for the rest of us.
	It's crazy.
	Speaking of which, I wanted to mention as well of course that Florida is its own special next level of hell which we covered in our Ron DeSantis episode.
	If anyone hasn't heard that one yet, it's abysmal.
	Have fun.
	Studies have shown that in the United States, in public school programs where LGBT sex education is not a part of the sex education curriculum, LGBT students are more likely to engage in riskier sex, ultimately leading to higher rates of HIV and AIDS and other sexually transmitted infections such as gonorrhea and chlamydia, as well as more reported cases of teenage pregnancy.
	This problem does not occur as frequently for LGBT students who are enrolled in public schools with programmes that cover LGBT sexual issues in their sex education courses.
	Additionally, LGBT students who do not receive specialised sex education are more likely to search online in order to seek additional resources in order to learn more about their sexuality or identity, which may not be safe or factual.
	And often, young LGBT students will learn about their sexualities from finding pornographic films on the internet, which is less than ideal.
	The inclusion of LGBT curriculum in sex education courses has also been shown to decrease bullying of students who identify as LGBT in United States public schools.
	Who fucking knew?
	Of course.
	Like, we're just trying to fucking save lives.
	That's it.
	That's all we're trying to do, you massive cunts.
	That's true.
	"Andus, let some gay people around ya and you won't show up looking like that on video."
	That's true.
	That is true.
	"Such a clear, I've never met, seen a woman."
	One of us queers would have said something.
	I mean, come on.
	It might not have been me because I'm British and very polite, but one of us would have.
	Jesus.
	Throw that top away.
	Volume!
	Your hair needs volume!
	Listen!
	Yeah, yeah.
	So, where does Russell stand on all of this?
	Well, we've got a bit of a bramble coming up, so let's find out.
	What I feel is reasonable when educating, firstly I would say this, the parents of children should be in charge of the way that those children are educated and whether that's traditional or progressive should be a matter for the parent to determine.
	Again, that's a principle.
	So the principle isn't I've got a preference and I'm going to use this argument to leverage my preference.
	I don't care, not care, but mind how other people raise their
	children. I wouldn't want other people telling me how to raise my children. So like, you know, and,
	but what I would say possibly, aside from paedophilia, which is sort of, it seems to me
	pretty plainly wrong, that, uh, Does it?
	it comes to offering different ways that a human being might express themselves or be, isn't the
	assumption that we live in a culture that doesn't allow room for debate or conversation, or at least
	hasn't historically. A lot of assumptions around identity, around gender have been made. That
	began with something you touched on earlier that women ought to be able to work in all roles and
	have jobs in whatever sector. Even when you said a bit earlier, women are more emotional, I thought,
	"God, I bet I'm more emotional than you. I'm a man, you're a woman. I bet you're more logical
	and rational than me."
	I'm emotional.
	That's how I run, you know what I mean?
	Anyway, so I guess, look, a conversation about norms and the various ways that people might express themselves, I think, is healthy.
	But having said that, I don't think that anyone else should take precedence over the parents when it comes to imposing ideals or ideas.
	So after much beating around the bush, he finally settles on, do what you want.
	Again, this would possibly be fine if we were living in tiny ethnostates with no outside influence coming in to try and change our views, but the reality is that while Candace is nodding along and agreeing, yes, the parents should decide, she's an activist for trying to ensure sex education in all forms is completely taken out of schools, and she's doing that nationwide.
	Also, Russell, parents can be fucking wrong.
	Candace Owens is a prime example of that, but it applies to all other forms of bigotry like, perhaps, racism.
	Should that be left up to the parents?
	Should issues of race not be spoken about in schools?
	Ah, who the fuck am I kidding?
	These are the same people who've been up in arms about critical race theory being taught, so what even is the fucking point?
	They just, they just...
	They want the worst things to be able to say.
	I will say I was like put on my back foot almost refreshed that like.
	Russell was saying, like, well, I'm a man and I'm probably more emotional than you.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Which, like, yeah.
	Yeah.
	In fact, for most of recorded history, men have been the emotional element that, like... Yeah.
	Bad at regulating emotions.
	Poets and playwrights.
	I mean, the fact that human beings in general and our society does not have a memory past like Victorian era, like very like imperial, you know, imperial like Stiff upper lipidness.
	I blame you.
	I know where it came from.
	Like that kind of like weird, like moral conservatism, I guess.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Like right before that, the dandy fop was the most outrageous like creature.
	That's true.
	That is very, very true.
	And kings throughout history, many of them have been... Notoriously effeminate.
	Notoriously flamboyant.
	Incredibly, like, whole architecture, like, schools were built around how emotional they were.
	Like, the 1700s, very bad for people that so much wealth was consolidated, but the art traditions are incredible.
	As far as just like how opposite, I mean even like culturally, like how different How different the, like, roles of gender have been perceived over time.
	We have such this, like, minute little, like, historical understanding that is so disappointing.
	It's so disappointing to me because human experience is so rich, you know?
	If you whitewash Anger as not being an emotion, then even then you can try and pretend.
	But in reality, it's men that have spent millennia going to war and fighting and blah, blah, blah, you know, and just being generally fucking aggressive, you know, conquering nations and whatever else.
	But being loving and romantic and Cyrano de Bergerac and blah, blah, blah.
	That too.
	Men want women that smell like a flower patch.
	Like, come on.
	If we're talking about what's effeminate, men's preferences seem quite feminine.
	It's so silly!
	Yeah, go back to Greece.
	There's so much history of just...
	Of every possible gender expression, gender understanding.
	I feel like what we've settled on is that Candace Owens is ignorant.
	I think that might be the running theme of this episode.
	Candace Owens is ignorant and a moron and also maliciously intentionally ignorant at times.
	Well, I think it's all, I don't think that she's stupid.
	I think it's all malicious.
	She's got a motivation to be ignorant, to stay ignorant.
	Yeah, to present in a specific way regardless of what she does and does not know.
	And I think that it's because she can speak very well.
	about these, like, I just, I can hear the gears turning in her head behind everything that she's saying.
	And yeah, it can be different sentence to sentence because she's just saying what needs to be said
	in the moment.
	She's like going through her Rolodex of like her talking points and then fashioning them.
	And you know, she's just like using these same elements to arrange in a way that fits into a conversation.
	I mean, if this were a gen, if also, if she cared about any of it,
	this conversation would be different.
	Because, like, even on the surface level, like, Russell has disagreed with her a couple of times.
	And just, she breezes right past it.
	And if she is this firebrand who actually gives a shit, then, like, she would take Russell to task on some stuff that they clearly disagree on.
	Because Russell's at least, like, nudging up to the line a little bit.
	Even the most, like... Because that's more pushback than most of these people ever get.
	That's more pushback than I've seen Russell give other guests.
	Yeah, so it's certainly more than Tucker, more than DeSantis.
	That's what I'm saying.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Yeah.
	Other than poor, poor Dawkins.
	Poor piece of shit Dawkins.
	Sweaty, sweaty, sweaty.
	Sweaty fucking bigot Dawkins.
	Yeah.
	Coca-Cola person.
	So cruel.
	Yeah, yeah.
	I feel very conflicted about that now, you know, because obviously, because Russell just talked all over him, he didn't really have much of a chance to say all the horrible things he wanted to say.
	He still managed.
	He did, and he has since come out doing and saying much, much worse things.
	Speaking of which, with someone like Candice, I do often ask myself, how bigoted is she?
	On the grand scale of things, just how much of a piece of shit can this person be?
	And I think in the next clip we get a bit of an inkling.
	Yeah, we need to be a society, of course, when you're governing for the whole.
	You need to be a society that governs based on the rule, not the exception, right?
	So, yes, there are exceptions.
	Are there some men that are more emotional than women?
	Absolutely.
	But as a rule, women are more emotional than men.
	And we should be able to say that.
	We should be able to acknowledge that.
	And that's always been the circumstance.
	Women are drawn to certain categories that men are not drawn to.
	The way that men bond is different than the way that women bond.
	These are, again, rules.
	Of course, there are exceptions.
	I'm sure there are some women that They're absolutely crazy about sports and absolutely love sports, but to then say that because we have these exceptions and we're going to now pretend that all of society needs to pretend that everything is anomalous, that's when things get crazy.
	I mean, you think it's an act of compassion to if somebody comes to you and says, you know, I'm this to affirm them or to not to maybe not affirm them, but you're saying out of respect to, you know, play pretend in a certain way.
	And for me, that's offensive to me because what you're saying is I don't mind how you live.
	But when you tell me that how you live now has to influence how I live and I have to pretend that reality doesn't exist, I find that to be very problematic.
	It's sort of like, you know, if you meet a person who's suffering from, I don't know, bipolarism or suffering from grand delusions and they come to you and, you know, they say something that is so...
	Obviously not true, but then they demand that you say that it is true.
	You're demanding that I lie, right?
	So if you want to go out and pretend that you're a woman and say I'm, you know, I don't know what a Russell name would be, whatever it is, that's absolutely fine.
	But I don't have to pretend that you're a woman.
	I get to exist in the realm of reality.
	And so I find that to be weird when we're encroaching on people that are seeing things straight and as they are.
	And pretending that it's not kind if they don't want to play pretend.
	I'll play pretend with toddlers.
	I will, you know, but not with adults.
	She's acting like a fucking toddler.
	She's acting like a spoiled little dumb baby.
	If Candace Owens meets a trans person in the wild, from her telling of things, she will ideally intentionally deadname this person, if she knows their name, and at the very least will intentionally misgender them.
	This is, again, just after she's been suspended from YouTube for that slew of videos intentionally misgendering trans people.
	It's great to know that she's learned her lesson.
	I honestly don't have many more words for this clip other than what a hateful bag of cunts.
	Like, just, oh my god.
	Trash.
	Oh my god.
	Just trash.
	It's just like, it's, but again!
	The hypocrisy is within the sentence.
	Like, well I don't have to say this because you're affecting me.
	Okay, so then why is your existence more important than someone else's?
	Yeah, who made you the arbiter of what reality is?
	Yeah, like why are you the special unique snowflake that gets to be treated special and different and like no one else?
	Why are you different?
	Why are you special?
	Why are you the exception?
	Because we are not supposed to govern by the exception.
	No.
	So then why do you get to be the exception?
	It's a good question, I don't think she'd have a good answer.
	So we have a response from Russell, where he says he's open to Candace's type of analysis but tries to get to the bottom of what troubles her.
	Wow, I suppose I see it as that around language there is an arbitrariness anyway when it comes to some of the terminology that's used, that language is convenience for identification and if language has a different meaning to somebody because of the way that they feel and I can make them Feel better just by saying that.
	Like, for me, that's easy.
	And not that different from if someone had some sort of cultural tag that they would like me to apply, like, senor, monsieur, or like, whatever.
	If someone says, like, for me, that identifies, you know, female or any form of identification, it just doesn't trouble me in that way.
	Now, like, I'm sort of open to your sort of rule, the type of analysis you apply to that, but I don't know what troubles you.
	Because calling me a birthing person, you're basically saying that I have to cease to exist so that men that have mental disorders can exist.
	Right?
	That's very wrong.
	It's very wrong to pretend that I'm not different from you.
	You've been pregnant before, Russell.
	You've been calling me a birthing person.
	You've seen your wife be pregnant.
	You see what women go through.
	So the idea that I'm going to stop existing so that somebody can feel good in their head, it's just not who I am.
	I think it's very important to acknowledge the actual struggles that real biological women go through in the same way, and the hurdles that they have to go through.
	And as we start diminishing language, which obviously is what's happening now, they're starting to say, you're a birthing person.
	Men can breastfeed.
	No, they can't.
	Women breastfeed.
	Women go through that.
	It's a very hectic experience.
	And so I very much draw the line at that and I'm very happy to be considered not compassionate or not emotional enough and I think that the reason that movie has gotten so far and now you actually have men invading into women's spaces is because it started with one person saying, I'm just going to pretend to make you feel good.
	You just, reality has to remain reality and I am very objective when it comes to those things.
	Okay.
	Okay.
	Yeah, you're very fucking objective, I'm sure you are.
	Candice, the only person trying to stop other people from existing is you.
	No one is calling you a birthing person.
	No one on this planet is calling you a birthing person.
	And, you know, use of gender-neutral terms around, you know, fucking medical procedures is not unreasonable, and it doesn't really affect you, does it?
	There is a very real distinction between sex and gender, and what gender a person is assigned at birth may not actually end up being their gender at all.
	Case in point, I was assigned male at birth.
	I am actually non-binary, and after much hand-wringing, feeling like shit, and a suicide attempt, I finally got to grips with the concept.
	Men can breastfeed, because perhaps they were assigned something different at birth.
	Trans men have given birth to perfectly healthy children, and no men are invading your spaces.
	There's an underlying malice to what she's saying that's reliant on the concept of some people wanting to be trans.
	From my own personal lived experience, I have never met a single human being that has ever wanted and chosen to be trans.
	Like, like anyone's gonna say yes to the question, hey, do you want to be a part of possibly the most hated group of people on the planet?
	Like, it's not a fucking choice.
	It is be trans and accept myself in some way or find another way to try and shuffle off this mortal coil yet again.
	It is be trans or die.
	Those are my choices.
	And for now, I choose life.
	The reason Candace thinks that people are wanting to be trans, and specifically people who were assigned male at birth transitioning into being women, is that she thinks they're all just doing it so that they can sexually assault people in bathrooms, or some variation of that hateful bullshit.
	And it is just that.
	Bullshit.
	There is no evidence that letting transgender people use public facilities that align with their gender identity increases safety risks.
	And this is from a comprehensive study from the Williams Institute at UCLA School of Law.
	Not only that, but in fact, transgender and gender non-binary teens face greater risk of sexual assault in schools that prevent them from using bathrooms or locker rooms consistent with their gender identity.
	A different study found that 36% of transgender or gender non-binary students with restricted bathroom or locker room access reported being sexually assaulted in the 12 months prior to the study.
	36%.
	It's the trans people being assaulted, Candace.
	But we've known this all along.
	Also, a separate point, I'd bet a hefty amount of money that the bathrooms in Candace Owens' house are gender neutral.
	I mean that's we've also always known this.
	Yeah.
	We've always understood this and what what I do genuinely love are like it's so for me like on TikTok on Instagram Trans and non-binary people are like, so which bathroom do you want me to use?
	Yeah.
	Cause do you want the person who looks like a boy going in the girl's bathroom?
	Or do you, or vice versa?
	How do you think that's going to go?
	Yeah.
	Come on.
	She's also like just made a whole show about, I don't want to be a liar.
	I'm not going to say something that's a liar.
	Like, are you not a birthing person?
	Why the fuck would you give a shit?
	That argument of calling people cis, calling women cis, it's just an identifier.
	Do you have two legs, or one leg?
	Are you bipedal?
	Right!
	It's so simple.
	It's so obviously like there's no logic or reasoning to what they say in the moment and even for like that to me seems like the most sophisticated of these really stupid like turfy arguments of like don't tell like you didn't have the same experience growing up as a woman because you grew up as you know like you were assigned male at birth and now you're a woman like no trans person I've ever met or known Has insisted that their experience supersedes that of a woman who has lived their life as a woman.
	No.
	Honestly, it's extremely difficult to reconcile for me personally, because I'm like, to me, and also everyone around me, I'm obviously a non-binary creature, but I've lived my life as a woman, and the whole world is gonna treat me like a woman regardless of Of how I feel because, and so it's difficult to reconcile like, well, I'm non-binary person as my experience, but my political identity, if I want to talk about my experience as a woman,
	Well, I'm both, because that's my political identity, technically, as I've experienced life as a woman.
	So I can tell you how the world treats me as a woman-bodied human.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	And so knowing how to talk about that, especially when, gee, so much raping just keeps happening in the news and from these people all the time, and also just misogyny, that's the thing about the TERF argument that is so stupid, and I don't understand it, is you're not...
	It's what, like, trans-exclusionary radical feminism is turf, right?
	That's what it's supposed to be.
	I've never found anything particularly radical about any of them.
	Well, it's a misnomer because feminism, at the end of the day, and what she's trying to say is, like, women have this specific experience and you can't, it's so, like, precious.
	Again, very fucking Phyllis Schlafly of this, like, hallowed woman place.
	When, like, feminism is about equality, what you're telling me is you want, like, TERFs have nothing to do with feminism.
	Feminism is about equality for everyone.
	It's not the best word to express...
	That idea, but that's absolutely the project and the goal of feminism is to achieve equality.
	What TERFs want, again, is actually, I used the term earlier, but this is a much more appropriate place to put it, is like female supremacy is what you want.
	Patriarchy and matriarchy are not just mirror images of the same thing.
	Matriarchy is a completely different social system.
	So you're just saying you want patriarchy, but you want to be in charge also.
	As this weird exception.
	Well, it's a weird thing because I don't think she wants women to be put above men.
	Because as she said, you know, women shouldn't be allowed in politics for a start.
	You know, and she's very, very kind of traditional wife kind of, kind of, you know.
	But she's not.
	She's a talk show host.
	Well, well, there is this.
	She's a very busy talk show host.
	But yeah, but she definitely, definitely wants everyone to be above trans people, that's for sure.
	That's what I'm saying.
	She wants to be, like, Phyllis Schlafly said the same shit, is that she was like, this hallowed role Of the housewife, and she didn't do a housewife-y thing at all!
	That was a career woman who was a motivated, politicking, John Birch Society-ass motherfucker, and she wasn't gonna take no for an answer.
	But somehow... Still sounds familiar.
	She had this whole other idea of what she was lifting up, and this example she was supposed to be, that she did not live at all in practice.
	She was the exception.
	She wanted to be picked, and she got picked, and she pulled that fucking ladder up behind her.
	It's so insidious.
	This kind of shit.
	Fucking Anita, like, mmm.
	There's a... Man, there's a special place in hell.
	And hell is real.
	Special fucking place for them.
	It's just... I completely agree.
	I completely agree.
	And just quickly to your point about kind of...
	Presentation and presenting and how you present when you're non-binary and how the rest of the world is going to look at you.
	I don't owe anyone androgyny.
	I just don't.
	And neither do you.
	And you know, it's one of those things that, yeah, it can be tough to deal with for various reasons, but fuck it.
	What I'm talking about, speaking on my experience, is like, I think it's reasonable to just admit and talk about, this is sticky wicket.
	Anybody who's got ideas or suggestions, boy I'm open to it.
	All those academics that we're all so terrified of.
	Usually have, like, pretty fucking good ideas about how to, like, how to talk about our changing society.
	Yeah, yeah.
	100%.
	It's crazy how humans adapt over time.
	Oh, weird.
	I mean, yeah, there's also good Good amount of evidence that we have always existed.
	Anyway.
	Oh, absolutely.
	Yes, absolutely.
	Yeah.
	Brand has gotten somewhat bored talking about all of this, so he decides to pivot it back to one of his favorite talking points.
	Um, what I feel is like you said earlier about the, um, you know, the norm should rule or the majority should rule.
	And I started to feel that when under scrutiny and analysis, there are so many different taxonomies that are not really acknowledged.
	An obvious emergent one of the sort of subjects around gender identity that we've been discussing, but it appears that there are just so many ways of being American, being a human being, And it appears to me that really what the ulterior force, the burgeoning force beneath this, which is not being addressed, is that there is nothing permanent or necessarily rational or logical about the idea of a nation-state, about having communities of 300 million people or 60 million people under one government, that this in itself
	It's an idea and plainly it's an idea because there is no actual literal thing called France.
	It's conceptual, it's abstract.
	Same for any nation or community and indeed for hundreds of thousands of years we evolved in smaller communities.
	Now I'm not anti-progress or anti-technology or medicine or any of those great advances but what I've started to suspect Is that centralism, centralisation, authoritarianism, gargantuanism, whether that's in the corporate world or in the state, are ways that you can create elite strata and control huge populations.
	What I believe in is maximum democracy that would, in my view, immediately defuse the kind of conversations we're having.
	Like if I was living in a community of a 100 or 1,000 people when we vote.
	Do you agree that if people want to be called a pronoun, we'll do it?
	Yeah, yeah, cool.
	And then you're one, people go, no, no, we're not doing it.
	There you go, democracy.
	And we all accept and marvel and enjoy the many different ways, like you said earlier, that people might, you know, you're happy if you go to Iran or Australia or Finland and find cultural distinctions which I think is glorious and in fact a different kind of diversity.
	What I believe we are on some level protesting against is the homogenization of everything and this homogenization is happening for commerce, for commodity, for authoritarianism.
	It's not benefiting ordinary people.
	advancing elite interests and it's undemocratic and it's destroying the world and people are
	sort of positioning it in extraordinary ways in order to facilitate it. So where do you think that
	democracy and the simple idea of people being able to run their own lives and run their own
	communities, as distinct from a kind of libertarianism that becomes ultimately, you know,
	I don't know, sort of financial and a communal anti-community.
	What do you think about those type of ideas dear Candice? Okay so let's all live in tiny
	ethnostates!
	Woo!
	Again, Russell believes we should all live in communities of roughly 120, because that's how big a group of chimps is, and we should have little democratic theocracies with zero crossing borders or multiculturalism, because that's Homogeneity.
	Because it's worked out so well in human history.
	Yeah, it's just been so bad for us as a species.
	It's an absurd belief that pretty much never fails to amuse me whenever he brings it up, to be honest.
	At this point.
	The more I learn about his conception of how it should go, the funnier it gets to me.
	Yeah, because it's so, like, hollow.
	It's so just impractical, just from any reasonable perspective.
	Russell, you couldn't draw a picture of it.
	No.
	No.
	That's all I want.
	Just draw a picture of what you think it will look like.
	Oh, do you have to like... He would just draw lots and lots of circles inside a country and those would be all the little communities.
	It would be like Frogspawn filling a country.
	That's what it would look like. And there are some black people here and there are some Jews over
	here. You know, that's...
	They all stay separate.
	No one's touching.
	There are hard borders between these things.
	So profoundly impractical.
	It's insane.
	Is it because you people grow up around castles?
	Is that why you think...
	I mean, I've... I'm gonna go with no.
	the rest of the country has also grown up around castles and has not had this same problem. So I'm
	gonna go with no. So we are of course left with the question, what does Candace think of these ideas?
	Yeah, I actually totally agree with you.
	And that's actually what makes America quite unique is that we have state rights.
	And so you can kind of choose your tribe.
	You know, I made, I decided to leave Washington, D.C.
	and leave.
	I was also living in Philadelphia for a while because I realized that I don't identify with these people.
	I don't identify with the way that things are run.
	And I moved south.
	And it feels like I'm in a completely different country, just living here in Nashville, Tennessee, right?
	Completely different values.
	And it's all about finding your tribe.
	And you are correct that I think that we function better on a community level.
	And now my life is totally different, and it doesn't even reflect what you're seeing on the mainstream media, because they have no interest in the way that people are living in the South whatsoever, actually, if we're ever being talked about.
	It's in a negative way.
	States are still too big for Russell's conception of how we should all live, but fine, whatever.
	I don't think anyone is surprised that Candace feels more comfortable in the South, given that she pretty much hates black people, definitely hates the LGBTQ plus community, is a huge proponent of the trad wife lifestyle, so women should stay at home or in the kitchen, and is of course aggressively Christian.
	I am shocked, shocked I tell you that she feels so comfortable in Tennessee.
	Um, yep.
	Yeah, cause also... but still in a major metropolitan area.
	Oh yeah!
	God, yeah.
	Cause in the rural south.
	She lives in a 15 minute city, I'm quite sure.
	Well, it's pretty sprawled.
	It's pretty rough.
	But that is... yeah, we don't have...
	Nothing is walkable in the snow.
	Well I just love the very concept of going to war with convenience is remarkable.
	Oh it's fucking incredible. But that's the thing is like she gets to be around other rich people.
	Oh yeah Nashville plenty of those. Fucking plenty of those that's for sure.
	Enough that she doesn't have to interact with a good portion of Nashville who is not rich.
	And especially the way that black people have been treated and subjugated and terrorized.
	To this very day, I know who she identifies with, and it's not the other black people around her.
	No.
	Period.
	Other critics have described her as an Uncle Tom before.
	I don't feel like I have the right to make that comparison, but I do understand where they're coming from.
	Um, so yeah, there's an aspect to it.
	Yeah, what's the female version of, like, just the feminist version?
	Aunt Cheryl?
	I don't know.
	Aunt Karen?
	I don't know.
	Like, yeah, all the betrayal in this person is really distasteful, and that's why they're going to hold onto her to the bitter end.
	Yeah, because she's gross.
	So we know already that Candace is an asshole about pretty much everything involving other people, and next we learn of a subject that is no exception.
	So you're absolutely right.
	And this is why I think that I spend so much time and conservatives in general spend so much time talking about families, right?
	Because that's that's your original tribe.
	Your original tribe is a husband, a wife, the children.
	You get to assess how you want to live, what you want to allow into your household, who you want to allow into your household.
	And that is the number one answer that I get to people when they ask me what they're they're so frantic about the way of the world.
	and I'm talking specifically about Americans, because our government is run different, obviously,
	than yours--
	what can I do, what can I do?
	Rather than focus on the big picture, this idea of what the nation and what our responsibility is as a nation,
	what can you actually do in your own house?
	When COVID happened, for me, I never worried a single day.
	My children were never going to be masked.
	I was never going to mask.
	When we had a baby nurse come one night and she was wearing a mask, I said,
	you don't have to wear that.
	She said, I want to.
	And I said, actually, we don't allow that in this house.
	And we showed her right out, because this is our house.
	We get to decide.
	We're actually the bosses.
	I'm the dictator.
	Me and my husband are the dictators.
	We're the evil rulers of this house.
	Well, so a baby nurse came into her house wearing a mask in 2021, a medical professional, to see her child.
	And Candace told her she had to take off the mask or leave.
	I think the nurse made the correct decision in getting the fuck out of that house because Jesus Christ, I mean, she said she's the evil dictator.
	I believe her.
	I believe her.
	That is, that is remarkable.
	We're not going to argue.
	Remarkable.
	Incredibly, incredibly just, just, she just does not think of anyone who isn't her.
	So what does Russell have to say about it?
	And that returns power back to the individual, which is wonderful.
	Your style, man, you're hilarious.
	Because like me, I'm like, listen, I don't really see that these mask things are working.
	I guess maybe I'm just not strong enough.
	But if someone in my house was wearing a mask, oh man!
	I feel embarrassed asking people to take their shoes off.
	But you'd be like, get that mask off!
	Yeah.
	And what did they say?
	That's what I did the entire time.
	She left.
	It was, you know, it was no hard feelings.
	I just said, we actually don't allow that in our home.
	And I think she was quite surprised by that.
	But the concept of my child waking up in the middle of the night, baby, and you've got a person that looks like Bane from Batman looking over the crib, it's just not allowed in my house.
	You know what I mean?
	So this is a baby.
	If you're afraid of a baby, I don't need you here, right?
	So if a baby terrifies you, you're obviously not a good baby.
	Hello, let me check this baby's doing.
	That's my Bane impression.
	I hope you're pleased that I've done that.
	That's what it would look like.
	I was like, he's going to wake up and my poor little baby is going to see, like, this is very scary.
	And so we just didn't allow it in our households at all.
	It's not scary.
	Didn't require any of our employees to wear it.
	We didn't stop anything.
	We didn't care about, don't see your family for Thanksgiving.
	I hosted a huge Thanksgiving.
	You know, that's the beauty of small communities.
	That's the beauty of family.
	You get to establish your own rules.
	You don't have to pay attention to the nonsense of the mainstream media.
	So you're absolutely correct.
	Right?
	What a dumb baby!
	What a dumb baby!
	I don't think she's stupid at all.
	I think she's smart, but she can act like a dumb baby very effectively.
	What a tantrum.
	Also, it's a real wonder that Russell's acting career didn't take off any further than it did, eh?
	His little Bane impression there.
	So, in this case, the nonsense of the mainstream media, as she puts it, is a deadly plague ravaging the nation and Candace and her extended family, not just her immediate, her extended family decided to just ignore it and have a maskless Thanksgiving in the height of the pandemic.
	She did this in 2020 and 2021, by the way.
	Candice is, of course, an anti-vaxxer and hasn't taken the COVID-19 shot, and I am deeply curious whether the older members of her family got the shot.
	I hope they did for their sakes, but either way, wouldn't surprise me if this little Thanksgiving gathering was the cause of at least some illness here or there, right?
	Yeah, host your own super spreader event.
	Congrats, Candice!
	Good job!
	Yeah, what does that turkey taste like?
	Do you know?
	Death.
	So after this point, they talk a bunch of shit about Candace's new show, Convicting a Murderer, which, again, I don't care about.
	And they were discussing movies in general and anti-heroes, and again, I don't care about.
	So I'm going to skip to the end where we get a few quickfire questions from Bran's Locals channels, and I'm going to play one of them.
	Michael Elros goes, do you ever plan to run for president because him and his family want you to?
	That's very sweet.
	Thank you so much.
	You know, at the moment I'm running behind toddlers.
	Uh, the family stuff is way more important to me.
	Um, and I actually think that I have more influence outside of politics.
	I think the realm of culture is way more influential and I'm just happy with where I am right now.
	You won't do it!
	Culture?
	Is that what you do?
	In one sense, thank fuck for that, because having this woman as a legislator of any kind would be utterly horrifying.
	In another sense, it means that she's going to keep making her podcast and her shows and whatever else, which is a real fucking bummer.
	I know Candace crows about how everyone's trying to silence her, which is blatantly untrue as she has millions of followers, but I personally would love for her to shut the fuck up and go away.
	That would be my ideal Candace situation.
	Like, she's rich as fuck, so is her husband, why can't they just piss off and live the high life and stop injecting hateful bile into the rest of the world?
	But I'd consider that if I was rich.
	Like, I could do work, Or, I could spend my time in my underwear playing Xbox while a private chef makes my food, a private cleaner cleans my house, and my butler buttles about the place.
	Okay, maybe I'd get bored, but there is an appeal to that, right?
	There are definitely... There are just better... Travel!
	Do something!
	There are better ways to spend your time when you are extremely wealthy, especially.
	Good lord.
	Good lord.
	I, you know... Mm.
	I am intrigued by this convicting a murderer.
	I knew you were gonna buy it.
	I knew you would.
	It's one of the reasons I didn't bother to look at it.
	I'm so curious about how dumb it is.
	Laura's gonna watch it.
	But I was like, what is there left to say?
	The thing is, making a murderer has been dissected It's like the Adnan Syed serial season.
	It's been dissected to the nth degree.
	Every which way, yeah.
	To an atomic level at this point.
	Yeah, like, if you don't have any interest in true crime at all, those are the things that you know about.
	Not gonna- I mean, I am curious.
	I'm just curious as to like, what could possibly be left to say?
	Yeah, well, let us know.
	Let us know and report back.
	Is it free?
	It's not like- I have no idea.
	It might be on the Daily Wire, I think.
	I don't know if it's one of their paid things or not.
	If it is, yeah, exactly.
	And if it is, there might be a way to find it somewhere on the seven seas, possibly.
	In the next, in the next, yeah, yeah, I might be able to find it. In the next clip,
	Brand clearly has a bit of cognitive dissonance going on.
	Yeah, it's a weird one that I tell you, it's interesting talking to you, maybe I have changed,
	maybe I have, you know, I still disagree with you with loads of things, but I agree with the,
	I agree with the concept of you, I agree with the essence of you, I agree with the right for you to
	be you.
	Yeah.
	[BLANK_AUDIO]
	Clips like this do truly make me wonder whether Brand actually does realise that he's right wing.
	it's I I think brand is going to see clips like this do truly make me wonder whether brand actually
	does realize that he's right wing like he seems genuinely perplexed at how much he agrees with
	Candace Owens. I don't think you don't think that's talking to each other.
	I genuinely don't.
	I don't know whether they enjoy talking to each other, but there are a lot of things that he agrees with her on that he didn't in their first interview.
	Maybe it's because I've watched the whole thing and, you know, I'm not disagreeing.
	I'm not disagreeing.
	I just I think because the thing is, is you can hate people and you can hate each other and still not want to acknowledge it.
	Yeah.
	Because their motivations are like, I mean, their class consciousness is going to take over in these situations.
	So like, yeah, I can hate you as much as I want, but.
	No solidarity like rich person solidarity, especially like rich famous, you know, like weirdly obscure famous person solidarity.
	Yeah, they're gonna get on side.
	Yeah.
	I would think that in a way that like I don't know, Russell's obviously uncomfortable.
	Like, also, good, fuck you, but like, obviously uncomfortable with the stuff that she's saying
	and does not believe the concessions he's making.
	I genuinely don't think that.
	He's like, doesn't hate gay people.
	Yeah, no, no, no, no, no, that's, that's true.
	That's true.
	And so like, trying to conjure that is like, he's really ineffective at conjuring something that's like, I think of all the problems this man obviously has that we've explored, I think fundamentally, it's not in him to hate gay people, so he's not even good at pretending.
	Yeah, yeah, it's true.
	He is a bad liar in many ways.
	But yeah, I do think there is a part of him that is kind of... because there are definitely other things that they agree on that's not any of the trans or LGBTQ plus stuff.
	But yeah, it's definitely interesting and seeing clips where he's kind of maybe wrestling a little bit with himself is very interesting.
	Maybe it's just seeing someone who agrees with him on a lot of things but is so obviously a massive cunt.
	Maybe it's that.
	I think that's what I'm picking up on.
	Maybe it's just like, you agree with everything but I hate you!
	Yeah, well you see parts of himself reflected and he doesn't like it.
	Yeah, yeah, could be that, could be that.
	So yeah, I don't think that, I honestly, like, I think these people are too, like, narcissistic to even, like, consider each other, which is why it was funny that the little bit of time they spent actually talking to each other, they Disagreed from the outside in a massive way, like a fundamental shift.
	They actually spoke to each other about anything real and then immediately had to back away because he's on the grift.
	I couldn't see these two sat around a dinner table, let's put it that way.
	That's what I'm saying, they don't want to be talking to each other.
	No, whereas I could see Russell sat next to, like, Tucker, for instance.
	I could see that happening.
	It would still be gross, but, you know, I could see them both enjoying that experience.
	Whereas this, no.
	No, I don't think so.
	So, thankfully, Candace fucks off back to her dictatorship in Tennessee.
	But just before ending the show, Brand gives us a little glance into what was meant to be some upcoming guests.
	We've got some amazing people coming up.
	Jimmy Dore, lefty radical.
	Crystal Ball, lefty radical.
	Yanis Varoufakis, lefty radical.
	Eckhart Tolle, spiritual radical.
	All leading up to a radical turn to the right when Ben Shapiro will be coming on our show.
	I don't even know if that's chronological order.
	So how many of these come true is a matter for debate, because last time we did this half of them never materialized.
	I'm still waiting on Roger Waters and Elon Musk to appear on his show, though in either case I'm pretty sure it's in the pipeline somewhere.
	There is yet more news about Roger Waters being an anti-Semite, so that's good.
	Yeah.
	Anyway, he just described Jimmy Dore as a lefty radical, which isn't true at all.
	The guy's a fucking right-wing mouthpiece.
	Crystal Ball I will accept as being mostly left, but she still panders to the right and does whatever she can to fling shit at Biden.
	Yannis Varoufakis, I don't know too much about.
	He's an economist and politician who self presents as an erratic Marxist but other Marxists disagree and the best I'm gonna say is that I'm not sure.
	The jury's out until I have the time to properly look at the guy.
	You're an economist?
	Yeah, he was the economist for Greece for a while during the crisis.
	For like six months.
	Yeah, I'm not sure which bits he was responsible for to be fair.
	He might have done some good things.
	Yeah, he might have done some good things.
	I read something saying he's a genius economist according to some people.
	I don't know.
	Again, have not looked into the guy enough to assess his views and everything else.
	Very true.
	Yeah, I always get concerned when people are described as geniuses, Elon Musk.
	Eckhart Tolle, the spiritually enlightened one, can be said to spout some libertarian and right-wing views.
	And Ben Shapiro is of course a pasty-faced bigoted alt-right incel.
	Also, I don't know how many of these have cancelled or how many of these interviews were already recorded when the allegations against Brand came out.
	I'm really not sure, but it'll be mighty interesting to see how many of them end up happening.
	I don't think Crystal Ball would go ahead, but maybe she would.
	Maybe she fucking would.
	I don't know.
	I don't know.
	We'll see.
	Well, and I do want to say something about, as far as like Eckhart Tolle and, you know, I mentioned Marianne Williamson earlier and I saw some listeners were like, why does Lauren have such a reaction to Marianne Williamson?
	Overall, and I think that looking back, we can see that like this, like the New Age, specifically like the New Age spirituality movement is very susceptible um to conservative ideas conservative exploitation and a lot of of like spiritual practices that seem very groovy on the outside and maybe when they're you know they're
	They're, like, handing out daisies and, you know, playing tambourines on a street corner may seem very groovy, but their actual values, like, the core values and their beliefs are actually extremely conservative.
	So this whole, like, you know, the pastel QAnon and, like, the woo-anon kind of turn that we've seen in recent years.
	It should be less surprising than it actually is.
	People that really know about the origins of the New Age movement and from whence it came and from whence it actually teaches aren't as surprised as those that might be more, you know, like, as far as like, especially what Russell was describing as like, oh, this groovy, everybody's liberal, blah, blah, blah, like, no, not as liberal as you think.
	In fact, potentially very conservative.
	And usually kind of racist.
	Yep.
	The crunchy to alt-right pipeline is a real fucking thing.
	Yeah.
	Right.
	That's our show everyone.
	Bit of a longer one.
	Candice fucking Owen.
	And I've been sitting on this for two, two, three weeks.
	Oh God, this person is the worst.
	Yeah, so glad that we dealt with that.
	But yeah, had to go a little bit.
	A little bit longer just because there's more to say with that.
	She just also had a lot.
	She had a lot of hateful things to say and you should see the number of clips I cut out.
	She's a talker!
	Yeah, she's a talker and there were so many things to refute as to what she was saying.
	You're just fucking wrong!
	You hateful, hateful person!
	Why I bring up the Rush comparison is the staying power situation.
	If your whole personality, if every part of you is built on this Total like contradiction and you don't give a shit ever about being consistent or accurate or having a citation or any research and you can just like barrel through.
	There is a lot of money to be made and there's a lot of Audience to be captured by that kind of personality.
	Many millions.
	Many, many millions.
	That's what she has already.
	Yeah, and she's been able to adapt in her career as we've seen so far.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	It's not good.
	It's not good.
	No.
	That's terrible.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Complete fucking bigot on all sides.
	And I didn't even properly get into her anti-BLM documentary and all of the other horrible shit that she does.
	She's just an atrocious human being.
	Glad to be done with her anyway.
	I'm glad that that is out the fucking way, and hopefully it'll be another five years before she comes back on Russell's Show, because I don't want to have to deal with her again.
	Right, if you want to support us in what we do, please go to patreon.com slash onbrand.
	We would be very, very grateful.
	If you want to get in touch, drop us a line at theonbrandpod at gmail.com, and we will reply at some point.
	Yeah, we are really, really busy.
	Yeah, we have a subreddit that's on it.
	It's onbrand underscore pod.
	And on socials, we are the onbrand pod at most things.
	And we are more active on some than others, but hey, follow us anyway.
	I'm sure we'll say hi.
	And personal socials, I'm at alworthofficial and Lauren is at made.by.lauren.b.
	Come follow us on Instagram or whatever else.
	That'd be cool.
	I think that's probably the platform where we're both the most active, I would say.
	Yeah, I'm a picture person.
	Yeah, yeah.
	I just, yeah, I do find it weirdly the most pleasant of all of them for some inexplicable reason.
	Yeah, I don't know why that is, but it doesn't matter too much.
	We are going to go off-brand, where I have promised that we will have something fun this week, because we had something very serious last week.
	Well, and the last time that I'll be plugging this event is coming this weekend, so if you are in and around Um, that area of Texas.
	We'd love to see you.
	Um, so first Friday's at, um, Charles Adams Projects.
	Uh, it's not by the big body holly glasses, but they're not very far.
	Um, so October 6th, it is That immediately sounds fun.
	5 to 10?
	5 to 9?
	It's in the evening.
	It's Friday evening and that's why I'm so tired and kind of a mess is because I've been making stuff like crazy and still accepting recommendations for Roswell up until this coming weekend!
	Yeah yeah, fire away, fire away, send us an email.
	Yeah, but yeah, come see us at UFOs Over Lubbock.
	It's awesome.
	And you can search UFOs Over Lubbock.
	They're on Instagram.
	Yeah, I would say like Googling isn't even that... You just search on Instagram.
	Yeah, you can find it on Instagram.
	You'll find it.
	You'll find it.
	Yeah.
	Come see us if you really want to.
	That'd be cool.
	That'd be cool.
	I have zero plugs.
	Yes we will.
	Patrons, we will see you enough, Brianna.
	We have something fun, I promise.
	It's gonna be fun.
	And possibly we'll make Lauren mad.
	But we'll see.
	It's definitely gonna be fun.
	Anyway.
	Oh cool.
	Good.
	Great.
	So thank you everyone.
	Russell Brown is still a rapist and we still need to find something else for that.
	Hello, rapist.
	And yeah, we love you all.
	Look after each other.
	Stay safe.
	LGBTQ plus community, especially this week.
	Fucking hell.
	That was not fun.
	We love you.
	We love you.
	See you next week.
	Yeah.
	Yep.
	Bye!

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