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July 6, 2023 - On Brand

01:27:34

OB #7 - Don't Vote?

Al and Lauren examine Brand's somewhat historic 'don't vote' interview with Jeremy Paxman. Support us on Patreon! - patreon.com/OnBrand

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	This is On Brand, a podcast where we discuss the ideas and antics of one Russell Brand.
	I'm Al Worth, and each week I go through an episode of Brand's Show with my co-host Lauren B. Hi, I'm Lauren B., and I have no idea what is about to hit me in the face.
	Woo!
	And that's how we do things here.
	Lauren, what's your bright spot this week?
	Oh my bright spot is actually cloudy in a very good way.
	Cloudy spot?
	Okay.
	Yeah, my cloudy bright spot has been that it's been boiling hot and feeling kind of inescapable and then the last like it started raining yesterday and today it has rained a ton.
	And it is great for, because I have a little, our landlord let us put in a little garden a couple of years ago that- So it's a literal cloudy spot in that case.
	Yes!
	Literal cloudy spot.
	Literal cloudy bright spot that we've just been getting dumped with rain that like, just the way that the sun hits it, it's a little difficult to actually keep plants happy back there.
	And I found out the hard way that our backyard is a rat superhighway.
	Oh nice!
	It's truly uh disturbing so whenever the plants show weakness is whenever they're it's very spartan back there so so this this uh the a big rain like it's like 20 degrees cooler outside and I'm gonna have to go pull weeds the size of small trees and that's fine I'll figure it out but having knowing that The garden is always happier when I leave it alone and nature takes care of it.
	So knowing that is such a relief.
	So that's my cloudy bright spot.
	What's your bright spot today?
	I also don't have green fingers, by the way.
	I suck with anything living and green.
	Well, having monster rats.
	They should be cast in an 80s movie about... The Princess Bride, right?
	The rodents of unusual size.
	Not trauma.
	They're trauma rats.
	They're toxic avengers.
	They're terrifying.
	And they're huge.
	And they will fight you.
	They're gross.
	I feel like I'd be better at it if I didn't have a monster population that we're trying to injure us.
	Just keep your eye out for some ninja turtles eating pizza hanging around.
	Bury that vibe.
	Bury that vibe.
	They're gonna be training an army soon enough.
	Yeah, right.
	Yeah, so your bright spot.
	Sorry.
	Yeah, no.
	So my bright spot is today I rediscovered an album that I really enjoyed by a band called Pussifer.
	Yeah, you know Pussifer, right?
	One of Maynard's bands and Carina Round.
	God, she's incredible.
	Yeah, Existential Reckoning, the most recent one, the 2021.
	It fell off my radar for a while and a buddy of mine went to see them because they've been touring the UK and he sent me a clip of them playing Bedlamite, which I fucking love that song.
	And I was like, okay, I'm gonna vibe on this while I do some washing up today.
	And it's so good.
	It's just really nice to kind of rediscover these little parts of yourself because I listened to that thing like religiously for a long time.
	You know, there are just those certain albums, right?
	So yeah.
	And it's a fun word to say.
	I felt like... Pussyfoot, yes.
	I like unlocked a level when I saw that word and then learned how to say it.
	Yeah, yeah, that's the journey of that band.
	You're like, what's that?
	How do I?
	Puss?
	Poo?
	Poo Yeah, great band.
	Great band.
	Right, so I have a couple of announcements to make right up top.
	Firstly, we have an exciting new patron-only segment coming that's going to be called Off-Brand.
	This will consist of Lauren and I chatting about anything and everything.
	So usually, post-recording, we tend to chat for at least an hour about Queerness or music or politics or whatever's happening in the world.
	Hating stuff.
	Hating stuff.
	Liking stuff.
	Lots of liking stuff, yeah, we do that too.
	Yeah, because since we're apart, like you're in the UK and I'm in America, we can't like go get a beer or like grab a bite to eat.
	So that's like our version of it.
	So we still have like, you know, we're We're becoming friends through this process and that's kind of when it happens is like on the post-show comedown.
	Yeah, the record sandwiches.
	That's like the hangout.
	Absolutely.
	So we're basically inviting patrons to join us in that little escapade.
	I know a lot of you Love listening to us just kind of shoot the breeze, so there we go.
	That'll be starting from I think next week, all going well.
	The other announcement is that I want to tell our audience about some Patreon stretch goals that we'll be putting in place.
	Patreon have gotten rid of the official stretch goal system, but I like the idea.
	I like having something to work towards in general, so we're going to be doing them anyway.
	Specifically, I wanted to talk about the first one, which is when we get to $150 per month, I'm going to set about putting together a Russell Brand primer, slash primer, depending on how you pronounce it.
	It's both.
	I looked it up.
	It's both.
	Yeah!
	I don't want this to just be an overview of the history of the man and where he's come from.
	So a number of you have told us that you have family members getting into Brand and with him becoming all the more popular there's an ever-increasing chance you'll encounter one of Brand's followers in the wild.
	So, as well as covering Brand's history, I also want this primer to cover Brand's narratives.
	I want it to be a resource where, for instance, I can say, right, Brand is pro-Russia, here are examples of him saying pro-Russia things, and here's what you can say to combat anyone saying he isn't pro-Russia.
	And once we've got a website sorted out, which we'll get to at some point, a text version of this can also be transcribed as well.
	And then because I can update the podcast audio files, so I can add things when necessary to it.
	And so it'll expand any time he brings a new narrative on board.
	We do have other stretch goals in mind as well, but we'll discuss those another time and we'll add those to the Patreon.
	Yeah, and not to say that we won't do backgroundy stuff and cover background things here and there and have more opportunities to answer questions.
	Also, asking questions on any of our socials where you can post them, we're happy to do that, but this sounds like the first big undertaking that we'll be able to do.
	Yeah, this is definitely it'll take a little bit of extra work, especially rolling kind of his narratives up as well in there.
	But I think hopefully that could be an important resource for people going forward.
	And you know, it's, Don't get me wrong, the people that you're talking to, most of the time, when they start going down that rabbit hole, trying to talk about reality and facts, it doesn't tend to work, but you can try, you know?
	And it's nice to be able to at least know, to at least know where you stand on an issue.
	Yeah, and to know that somebody's got your back.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	We're in your corner and we're trying.
	We are always in your corner, eternally.
	Now, normally here we would thank some patrons individually for supporting the show, but this is being recorded a little bit in advance, as right now I'm theoretically somewhere near a beach trying to remember what it's like to read fiction.
	Trying.
	I've let that go completely at this point.
	I'm not happy about it, but it's just a fag.
	It's why I watch dumb TV.
	It's the only thing, it's the only fiction really left that I have time for.
	I'm gonna try, anyway.
	But despite that, we will get to all the patron shoutouts next week.
	But in the meantime, if anyone does want to support us and what we do, become an Awakening wonder, or even donate on a higher tier, head to patreon.com slash onbrand, and you will have our eternal gratitude.
	We like being able to afford to eat.
	And it will now we have a goal.
	We're having goals.
	We have many goals.
	We have many goals.
	But yeah, the primary is the first one.
	And that'd be great.
	And also, you know, it keeps us like ad free and all this other stuff.
	We don't have Russian oligarchs paying us like Russell Might.
	I'm not entirely sure.
	Yeah.
	Yep.
	Yeah.
	Editorial independent as best we possibly can.
	Hell yeah.
	And please note that while you can listen to our audio version anywhere you can find podcasts, you can also watch us on YouTube or if you listen in the Spotify app, the video should come up there too.
	So let's get into this.
	This episode is going to be something a little bit different this week and I think I'm just going to play the first clip because I kind of want it to be a little bit of a surprise.
	Russell Brand, who are you to edit a political magazine?
	Well, I suppose like a person who's been politely asked by an attractive woman.
	I don't know what the typical criteria is.
	I don't know many people that edit political magazines.
	Boris, he used to do one, didn't he?
	So I'm a person with crazy hair, quite a good sense of humour, don't know much about politics, I'm ideal.
	So, it's a little bit surreal, but today we are getting into Russell Brand's interview with Jeremy Paxman from October 2013, in which Russell makes his case for not voting.
	It's a pivotal moment in his history, and it really brought his vague notions of revolution to the fore.
	I am gonna say up top, the Russell of 2013 is someone I could get along with.
	I disagree with a lot of his points, but I could have a drink with this Russell, I could have a conversation with him, and probably get somewhere interesting.
	Same.
	Same, same, same!
	Contrast that with the Russell of today, whose overbearing cynicism, cash grabbing, and outright lying makes it impossible to have a conversation with in good faith.
	Not just that, but the Russell of 2013, like it or not, is genuinely quite charming.
	As you can tell just from that opening.
	You know, just a nice little, yeah, you know, Boris Johnson doesn't know fucking anything either.
	At this stage he'd been a guest editor for an issue of the New Statesman, which is a left-wing publication, at least for the most part anyway.
	Jeremy Paxman, for those who don't know him, is a famous political interviewer in this country, known for asking brutal questions and not letting politicians worm their way out of things, basically.
	I would recommend some of his highlights.
	There are some pretty good ones.
	Tony Blair springs to mind.
	Agreed.
	Yeah, I'm realizing, oh yeah, I know who this guy is.
	You know this guy, yeah.
	Generally speaking, if you're going to watch a Paxo interview, it'll be something of a justifiable evisceration of whoever's in front of him.
	This interview, however, is a bit more cordial than his usual demeanor, likely because Brand isn't a politician and wasn't a propagandist back then.
	I dare say Paxmo would probably absolutely destroy him these days, but one can only hope for that little interview.
	Also, Russell's not putting himself in that position anymore either, I would say.
	No.
	Well, I don't know.
	I would guess.
	I think he would go on Newsnight, I think, because big audience.
	You know, this BBC main kind of show, 9 o'clock news, that kind of vibe.
	I can't remember what time Newsnight's on, actually.
	Um, but, uh, I think he'd go on, but I don't know.
	I don't, I don't know whether he'd go on to be pressed about his current, current stuff.
	Do you know what?
	He probably would.
	He would.
	He absolutely fucking would.
	And he would just say, Oh no, no, it's all lies.
	I'm not right or left.
	I'm not blah, blah, blah.
	But like, at what point is he just going to start yelling, stay free, media, LLC, dot com, over and over?
	Yes.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Like a certain Alex Jones got on the BBC and basically started screaming Infowars.com to round up his interview.
	That was to Andrew Neill, wasn't it?
	That was Andrew Neill, the Scottish, yeah, the big, big Scottish chap, Andrew Neill, who got roundly pissed off at him.
	Yes.
	Fair.
	Fair.
	Incredibly fair.
	I feel like Russell has probably been interviewed by Andrew Neil at some point because he's similar to Paxman but more right-wing.
	Decent interviewer, shitty politics.
	Anyway, let's get into the first clip covering the whole not voting issue.
	But is it true you don't even vote?
	Yeah, no, I don't vote.
	Well, how do you have any authority to talk about politics then?
	Well, I don't get my authority from this pre-existing paradigm which is quite narrow and only serves a few people.
	I look elsewhere for alternatives that might be of service to humanity.
	Out of interest, Lauren, what are your thoughts on people not voting?
	I can understand the disenfranchised, again, the disenfranchised feeling.
	And as a person who's lived in major metropolitan areas in America, I know that my vote has counted at the most for like one-sixth of one vote in a national contest.
	Right now I think it's like one-thirty-fifth of a vote because I live in a major metropolitan area, it's very population dense.
	So I understand why people feel disenfranchised, but I think that it is our job to participate, because it's happening anyway.
	You might as well participate.
	Yeah, exactly.
	It's going to happen with or without you.
	I have strong feelings personally, but I'm not, you know.
	Yeah, I mean, my personal feeling is that especially, well, basically, if you abstain, then that's a vote for the opposition, generally speaking.
	Usually.
	And it's a sticky territory.
	Like, I'm reminded of that Douglas Adams quote, you know, they go to the planet where there's all the lizard people.
	As leaders, and everyone hates it.
	Everyone hates having the lizard people as leaders.
	But every single election, they'll vote for which lizard they want to win.
	And the chap asked them like, well, why do you keep voting?
	Why bother?
	It's like, well, then the wrong lizard might get in.
	You know, it's like, okay, yeah.
	You know, there is a kernel of a point there.
	There is.
	But... But that's not the solution.
	And I will say... Exactly.
	Nothing has convinced me that that's the way to go.
	Yeah.
	Oh, right.
	Dear listener...
	Here, I need you to know that Al is committed to the bit because I absolutely was texting about this this week and I got no indication that this was going to be the subject.
	You mentioned the no voting thing, I was like, fuck!
	I was like, oh, I remember this thing!
	And I was like, huh!
	And you... as though planning a surprise party.
	I have not a clue.
	So, that's... I want people to peek behind the curtain and get props where props are due.
	I'm impressed.
	If anything, I was like, god damn it!
	I was hoping this would be just completely out of left field, but not quite.
	Not quite.
	Um, but there we go.
	That's okay.
	Well, it was the thing that I had remembered, you know, I was like, I had remembered, and yeah, right, from like a documentary in like 2015 or something, I was like, I think I remembered this, and then I may have peeked at a Wikipedia page and confirmed it, and you just slid right past it.
	Slippery.
	Yeah, let's shoot past that.
	Yeah, well I can't give it away.
	I can't give it away.
	Because I will look back on that look of confusion on your face within the opening seconds of that clip for the rest of my life.
	What?
	No, completely justified.
	So next up, I have said already, this is a very different Russell Brand that we're dealing with, but he says a number of things I completely agree with.
	Alternate means alternate political systems.
	They being?
	Well I've not invented it yet Jeremy.
	I had to do a magazine last week.
	I've had a lot on me plate.
	But I say, here's the thing it shouldn't do.
	Shouldn't destroy the planet.
	Shouldn't create massive economic disparity.
	Shouldn't ignore the needs of the people.
	The burden of proof is on the people with the power.
	Not people like doing a magazine for novelty.
	How do you imagine the people get power?
	Well, I imagine there are some hierarchical systems that have been preserved through generations.
	They get power by being voted in.
	That's how they do it.
	You can't even be asked to vote.
	It's quite a narrow, quite a narrow prescriptive parameter that changes within the... In a democracy, that's how it works.
	Well, I don't think it's working very well, Jeremy.
	I mean, it's not working very well, he's right about that.
	100% correct about historic hierarchical systems of power, about the planet being destroyed, and about enormous economic disparity.
	Like, you can see how this is a Russell I would get along with, right?
	Yeah!
	Yeah!
	Have I said that exact thing?
	Maybe.
	The difference between Russell a decade ago and brand now is stuck, to say the least.
	Well, it's not as stark though, because he's still saying some of the same things.
	He's still saying those things, but then he packages it into something pro-Russia, something fucking pro-Trump, whatever he's feeling like doing at the moment.
	Pro-subscribe to him.
	Yeah, pro-give me money.
	But back here I can absolutely see why people would be drawn in by this charming, doe-eyed optimist who wants to change the world.
	Even if I completely disagree with his means of doing so.
	He at least seems genuine here.
	You can see it on his face, whereas nowadays it's almost comparatively dead behind the eyes.
	Just there for the grift.
	Yeah, I'm identifying way more with this person I'm looking at right now.
	A hundred percent.
	I would have had a beer with this man.
	No problems.
	No problem.
	I mean, we all would have been getting off of our catering shift judging from his outfit.
	We would have put a couple back and had a great time.
	Yeah, yeah.
	This was, you know, 2013 when he was waiting tables.
	I was!
	I get it!
	Yeah, yeah.
	This was post Get Him to the Greek, so definitely doing fine at this stage of his life.
	So next up we learn something about Russell in 2013.
	Given that the planet is being destroyed, given that there is economic disparity of a huge degree, what are you saying?
	There's no alternative?
	No, I'm not saying that.
	I'm saying if you can't be asked to vote, why should we be asked to listen to your political point of view?
	You don't have to listen to my political point of view, but it's not that I'm not voting out of apathy.
	I'm not voting out of absolute indifference and weariness and exhaustion from the lies, treachery, deceit of the political class that has been going on for generations now.
	And which has now reached fever pitch where we have a disenfranchised, disillusioned, despondent underclass that are not being represented by that political system.
	So voting for it is tacit complicite with that system and that's not something I'm offering up.
	Well why don't you change it then?
	I'm trying to!
	Well why don't you start by voting?
	I don't think it works!
	People have voted already and that's what's created the current paradigm.
	When did you last vote?
	Never.
	You've never ever voted.
	What?
	Do you think that's really bad?
	Do you think that's really bad?
	Is he my mom?
	That's crazy.
	I don't think it's good.
	I don't think it's good.
	So he's literally never voted.
	He's asserting here that his not voting is essentially a form of protest and to vote and participate in the system he disagrees with means also endorsing and accepting that system and I inherently disagree with that premise.
	And the reality of not voting or protest voting is votes get taken away from the candidates who are closer to your beliefs.
	So if this happens en masse, the opposing party wins, meaning there's not even the slightest chance you might feel represented by your government.
	And it becomes a self-perpetuating cycle, right?
	So yeah, there's a good chance.
	People were pissed off about this interview and Brand's messaging at this time.
	With, I would say, justifiable reason.
	This was around the rise of UKIP and that kind of thing over here.
	Yeah, bit fucking worrying.
	And then you have someone who is ostensibly, I mean at this stage I would say left-wing, telling young left-wing people don't vote.
	And it's like, well hang on!
	At that stage we are giving ourselves over to the opposition who are destroying this country every single year.
	And make no mistake, the Tories have been doing that in various different ways for a long time.
	Also, in this country we use paper and pencil to cast our votes rather than a machine.
	Very quaint, I know.
	And every year there are thousands of spoiled ballots where people intentionally write a message of protest on them, or in some cases draw a massive cock.
	Both of which get the point across far better than simply not showing up and being counted.
	Because there is a count of spoiled ballots every year.
	Some of them will be accidental, but a good number of them will be people saying, fuck you, I don't like it.
	Which, eh, fair enough.
	Well, so I actually worked the polls last November here, and while every state is different, as we've had to find out through various means, and I actually was curious about, like, as far as direct elections versus, like, electoral college stuff from the U.S.
	versus the U.K., but I mean, so we also still use... Yeah, we don't have one of those.
	Yeah, it's not great, I can tell you that.
	That's my understanding, yeah.
	Electoral College, not fun.
	Yeah, it hasn't been one of the waking nightmares I've had to endure as an adult, but whatever.
	Yeah, so in our process, it's funny, there's a bunch of people that We're at my polling station that also volunteered for the first time, and to a person, we were all so shocked at how strict and thorough the process was.
	I had an idea, but seeing it in progress, like seeing it happen in front of me, how difficult it is to... there's no wiggle room.
	There is no, like you are not voting twice.
	There's like, you know, like this.
	No, no.
	The whole thing of fraud is complete fucking nonsense.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	And so I knew that, but watching a bunch of like, mostly like retired ladies around me realizing that in real time was like, was, uh, delightful, but also like at the end of the day, you know, all these gals are like, you know, like what?
	Why is this on the news?
	Why is the news saying, like, I've now seen it for a whole day, and it's the most rigorous, like, quadruple-checked, there's a rule for every, and I mean every single thing.
	There's a rule.
	And why is this an issue?
	And we also, we also vote on paper ballots.
	They're just counted electronically in addition to, like, and then you can hand count.
	So we still have paper ballots as well.
	Yeah.
	So the automation is, the only automated ones are for, and this is what makes me especially angry, is that automated, like filling out the ballot, like in an automated system is for people with mobility, whatever kind of, um, That was so midwestern.
	that would prevent them from filling out a ballot, like filling in a circle on a ballot.
	So they have a machine fill out the answers they want.
	And then that poops out your, so Midwestern, homeboy, it poops out your ballot.
	(laughing)
	And then you put the ballot in the box and I can't touch it.
	No one can touch it.
	You have to touch it to put it in the box.
	I mean, even just people not voting at a polling place is what makes the room.
	In the conversation to insert lies.
	Which are bananas.
	And then you've got orange fuckheads saying that there are three million people who voted illegally, or like, you know, three million extra votes.
	I can't remember what the fuck they said.
	Oh, find me.
	Find me three million votes.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, find me three and a half million or something like that.
	I mean, you see like five old guys scream at strangers because they're, you know, they have the wrong paper or something.
	And it's like, yeah, I know it's really difficult to even to vote, which that's the thing that like my takeaways always are.
	Because there are days when, you know, it feels really shitty to realize how little my vote counts because of just where I live.
	Seems discriminatory to me, but hey!
	Whatever.
	So, but like that moment.
	Yeah, it's not like that's based on inherent systems of racism and iniquity.
	Dimension!
	Exactly!
	I've lived in very diverse urban areas.
	Code words all around.
	Like it's so, yeah.
	If voting did not matter, The minority opposition, the minority party, would not be working so hard to keep us from voting if it didn't matter.
	If you vote out, if spite is the only reason you vote, do it.
	Yeah, this is it.
	I mean, it's the same over here.
	The Tories have been trying to prevent various voting rights and kind of force ID laws and things over here because it would be beneficial to them.
	We could spend a lot of time on that.
	Anyway.
	If it didn't matter, they wouldn't be fighting it so hard.
	Yeah, right.
	That's all.
	That's my long story short in this instance.
	In this next clip, Russell makes a few more points that I agree with.
	So you struck an attitude, what, before the age of 18?
	Well, I was busy being a drug addict at that point because I come from the kind of social conditions that are exacerbated by an indifferent system that really just administrates for large corporations and ignores the population that it was voted in to serve.
	You're blaming the political class for the fact that you had a drug problem?
	No, no, no.
	I'm saying I was part of the social and economic class that is underserved by the current political system.
	And drug addiction is one of the problems it creates when you have huge, underserved, impoverished populations.
	People get drug problems and also don't feel like they want to engage with the current political system because they see that it doesn't work for them.
	They see that it makes no difference.
	They see that they're not served.
	Of course it doesn't work for them if they don't bother to vote.
	Jeremy, my darling.
	I'm not saying that the apathy doesn't come from us, the people.
	The apathy comes from the politicians.
	They are apathetic to our needs.
	They're only interested in servicing the needs of corporations.
	Look at what... Ain't the Tories going to court and taking the EU to court because they're trying to curtail bank bonuses?
	Is that what's happening at the moment in our country?
	It is, isn't it?
	So why am I going to tune in for that?
	All pretty much points I agree with.
	There's not that much to disagree with there from my perspective.
	Again a lot of it's fairly non-specific but generally I'm on side.
	What he's referring to at the end there is then Prime Minister David Cameron and his Chancellor of the Exchequer George Osborne fighting the EU's plan to set a cap on bankers bonuses.
	Alongside, of course, Boris Johnson.
	That kind of blatant cronyism is exactly what the Tories have been up to since 2010.
	And incredibly, we haven't ousted the bastards yet.
	Here's the thing, though.
	We can only get rid of them by voting.
	So, hmm.
	You can see why I find this a little bit frustrating.
	It's frustrating, but I also hear Some apathy being called something else.
	Because apathy isn't necessarily, like, I think that maybe Russell's taking offense to being accused of being apathetic.
	People called him that a lot at this time, and he did not enjoy it.
	Yeah, maybe also take a look in the mirror and be like, well, maybe I'm kind of apathetic sometimes.
	Because we're all allowed to feel that as human beings.
	And you have to face it, acknowledge it, Move forward rather than like, I'm going to make all these excuses as to how not apathetic I am.
	But like a lot of those descriptions were kind of also under the apathy umbrella.
	So like, yeah, I don't think he could honestly stand in front of me and say that one of the many times that he had never voted at this stage where he had never looked in the mirror and gone, yeah, I just can't be arsed.
	They're all the fucking same.
	Fuck them.
	You know, because that that is that is apathy.
	It is.
	Which, fine, fine.
	If that's your position, fine.
	But, you know, defend it.
	Yeah!
	Did my first voting experience, I was bounding in there, bright-eyed and bushy-tailed?
	Oh, me too.
	Of course I was!
	And now?
	Is it shitty?
	Yes!
	It feels bad!
	But it also, like, you gotta do it!
	I have never Ever had a single election or fucking local election or anything go my way.
	Not once.
	Has never stopped me from voting.
	Not a chance.
	Because it'll come.
	It'll fucking come.
	We've had some that have been better.
	Better?
	Like good?
	Good?
	I don't... Well there's a lot of local stuff over here and I do live in a blue state so sometimes I mean, you went from Trump to Biden.
	That's a marked improvement by anyone's standards.
	I'm not going to stand here and say that Biden's great, but compared to Trump?
	Fuck!
	Fuck!
	And that was pretty much the reaction of the entire country, which I think... Well, even our most recent local election in Chicago, which went to a runoff, Brandon Johnson is very, very far to the left.
	And I feel represents my values when our previous mayor's Lori Lightfoot,
	who I feel there are some demographic, She was a bad mayor.
	And I mean, like, the memes are funny and she was a bad mayor.
	And so, like, that's the thing is you can see change in your own backyard.
	And even it's like St.
	Louis, where, you know, where I live or grew up, where I lived and grew up.
	Yeah, there's a lot of elections that maybe the rest of the state of Missouri was a cesspit, making people like Josh Hawley You know, like, rocketing them into the spotlight.
	Yeah, terrible.
	But local politicians that could actually get something done.
	Like, giving a shit about who your alderman is is cool.
	It doesn't work great for me personally.
	I cannot believe that Jim Gardner, and if anyone knows this story, I can't get into it, but my ward has one of the worst aldermen in the city, which is crazy!
	So it's- I don't know which, or if all state, local, federal investigations are happening of him.
	I can't keep track of which ones are happening at what time.
	The list is so vast.
	Okay!
	That sounds exciting.
	Yeah!
	It's something!
	But, like, you know, you can make a difference locally, and that's kind of the important part, and you might as well throw in for the national while you're at it.
	Yeah, and, you know, one affects the other.
	You know, if enough kind of local elections and stuff get affected, it starts to move up the chain.
	It does.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Next up, Paxman makes an observation that is probably more accurate than he ever suspected.
	You don't believe in democracy.
	You want a revolution, don't you?
	The planet is being destroyed.
	We are creating an underclass.
	We are exploiting poor people all over the world.
	And the genuine, legitimate problems of the people are not being addressed by our political class.
	All of those things may be true.
	They are true.
	But you took... I wouldn't argue with you about many of them.
	Well, how come I feel so cross with you?
	It can't just be because of that beard.
	It's gorgeous.
	It's possibly just... If the Daily Mail don't want it, I do.
	I'm against them.
	Grow it longer.
	Tangle it into your armpit hair.
	You are a very trivial man.
	A very trivial man.
	I think this is an accurate description of someone whose political ideology sways the same direction as their bank account.
	And that is who Russell Brand turned out to be.
	So I think very trivial man is appropriate.
	Yeah, at this stage, for anyone wondering, Paxman grew a beard.
	He hadn't previously had a beard.
	I think, I don't know if he grew it for charity or something like that, or whether he just fancied it.
	Don't know, don't really care.
	Right-wing papers didn't like it for some reason, I think because they associate beards with communism, which is a thing that they would kind of, they would throw that around about...
	I shit you not.
	They would throw that around about Jeremy Corbyn as well.
	But it's a common thing.
	I mean, look at how many of your representatives in the U.S.
	actually have beards.
	And they won't fucking risk it most of the time because they then get associated with communism, which is hilarious.
	Well, toxic masculinity has since taken care of that, though.
	I say.
	That's true.
	There has been a resurgence of beards, I would say among younger people.
	I see it more with our politicians.
	I feel like there's a direct correlation between the amount of axe throwing bars that have popped up and Politicians thinking it's okay to have a beard because it's I mean that's like I suppose Ted Cruz did when he attempted something, didn't he?
	Whatever the fuck that was.
	Well, I mean, you know, that's like they play act as cowboys and it works.
	You know, I would love to see Trump with a beard.
	Can you imagine?
	What color would it be?
	What color would it be?
	Look at shit that just happened in my mind!
	Is it a comb over?
	So it's just out of the side of his face, he has long... His hair, but on the bottom.
	Yeah, it's like long, just like a patch of like the cruel tutelage of Pai Mei, like that one long...
	What would that look like?
	I really want to see an attempt from him to grow a beard.
	I would love to see that.
	I bet he can't grow a good one.
	I bet he can't grow a good one.
	No, of course not.
	It happens!
	Either that, yeah, but he would care about it, which I would find very entertaining.
	Either that, or he would grow the most magnificent beard the world has ever seen, inexplicably, out of nowhere.
	That'd be a stunt.
	That'd be the Putin on a horse photo of, like, beards.
	That'd be a massive stunt.
	That's the one thing that Trump can't really, he hasn't even tried, and like, he can't play being a cowboy.
	RFK has been doing that, though.
	I don't know if you saw that.
	RFK Jr.
	Oh, I did!
	With shirt off, fucking guns, you know, blah blah blah.
	It's shocking!
	Yeah, I'm very upset.
	I'm very upset about RFK.
	And I'm keeping it under wraps how much I want to bother you about it.
	Because it's a problem!
	I know, it's coming, it's coming.
	It'll be coming up.
	He keeps coming on Bran's show and I'm like, ugh, I don't want to deal with you, but I'm going to have to fucking deal with you, man.
	Yep.
	Yep.
	I don't like it!
	I don't like it, but because I don't like it is why I know we gotta do it.
	And it's alarming.
	I don't like having to deal with Marianne Williamson, let alone that fucking guy.
	Anyway, in this next clip, Paxman pushes for details on Brand's idea of revolution, and quite amazingly, he eventually gets an answer.
	What, do you think I am trivial?
	Yes.
	A minute ago you were having a go at me because I wanted a revolution, now I'm trivial.
	I'm bouncing about a lot.
	I'm not having a go at you because you want a revolution.
	Many people want a revolution, but I'm asking you what it would be like.
	Well, I think what it won't be like is a huge disparity between rich and poor, where 300 Americans have the same amount of wealth as the 85 million poorest Americans, where there is an exploitative underclass that are being continually ignored, where welfare is slashed, while Cameron and Osborne go to court to defend the rights of bankers to continue receiving their bonuses.
	That's all I'm saying.
	What's the scheme?
	That's all I'm asking.
	What's the scheme?
	You talk vaguely about revolution.
	What is it?
	I think a socialist egalitarian system based on the massive redistribution of wealth, heavy taxation of corporations and massive responsibility for energy companies and any companies exploiting the environment.
	I think the very concept of profit should be hugely reduced.
	David Cameron says profit isn't a dirty word.
	I say profit is a filthy word because wherever there is profit there is also deficit.
	And this system currently doesn't address these ideas.
	So why would anyone vote for it?
	Why would anyone be interested?
	You volunteered to say that!
	I wanna show him this interview now.
	I wanna put it on for him and just be like, "Fucking watch it. Watch the things you said, Brand."
	You said it.
	You volunteered to say that!
	You said that all by yourself!
	It's amazing what can happen in ten years.
	So a socialist egalitarian system.
	Okay, got me there.
	I'm on board.
	Profit being a dirty word, I would say actually speaks more to a system of communism, but I'm fine with that as well.
	In any case, speaking of profit being a dirty word, how much money are you making these days, Brand?
	George Monbiot, British journalist who has apparently recently seen your finances, says it's many millions per
	year which you now make off the back of abusing and misleading
	your audience.
	Even back in 2013, he had already made millions from his acting and stand-up careers.
	It's curious that the man has literally never been able to put his money where his mouth is.
	I also seriously doubt that if pressed today, he would give the same answer to that question, if he would answer it at
	all.
	As previously discussed, socialism is a dirty word to his mostly American audience.
	I feel like there'd be two extra minutes of rambling at the end, a bramble at the end, because he obviously doesn't feel this way, obviously.
	And at the start, and in the middle.
	That's how you separate the bullshit.
	Boy, oh boy.
	I gotta say...
	I have to remind myself, again, new to podcasting, I have to remind myself, okay, you're shaking your head and no one can hear that.
	And I'm like, I don't have an immediate verbal answer like, right, nope, yep, I can't just put a bell on, even though sometimes I feel like I might have to.
	Man, oh man, it's a lot of head shaking.
	Would you like one of the little cat's bells on a collar, or like a cow bell?
	Which would you go?
	I think everyone would be so mad.
	Cathedral bell hung around your neck.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	I can picture like a cat bell.
	Yeah, that'd be cute.
	Like from ear to ear just so y'all can hear.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, yeah.
	I'm on board.
	We might have to look into it.
	Oh man, too much.
	It's so funny.
	But yeah, like, well, that's the thing is what he's saying is there is to the revolution that he's saying that he wants.
	He needs so much more participation, which he is still kind of asking for in the present day, but he's asking for it to comment on his YouTube video or in the votes chat.
	Do you think that's better?
	That's not asking him to participate in a democratic system, that's asking him to just give him money.
	It's asking them to participate in the grift.
	But it's funny that you bring that point up, because next up, Paxman has a hilarious point about Brand's proposed system.
	Who would levy these taxes?
	I think there needs to be a centralised administrative system.
	A government.
	There needs to be a government.
	Well, maybe call it something else.
	Call them the admin bods, so they don't get ahead of themselves.
	And how would they be chosen?
	Jeremy, don't ask me to sit here in an interview with you in a bloody hotel room and devise a global utopian system.
	Distraction, distraction, distraction.
	You're calling for revolution.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	I'm calling for change.
	I'm calling for genuine alternatives.
	How would they be chosen?
	Fucking great question.
	So what Paxman is trying to illustrate to Russell here is, you do need a system of government, even in your idea of utopia, even if you call it something else.
	How exactly would these people be chosen?
	By being voted for, of course.
	Yeah.
	I do slightly wish Jeremy had pushed harder to get Brandt to say it rather than letting him slide out of it and change the subject.
	But yeah, c'est la vie.
	Well, but that's such a stark pattern, and I think that you do get an advantage from watching the video versus just listening, because if anyone's ever been in an argument with someone who is dodging the point, you know how frustrating it is, and you can see it.
	What's specifically, like, especially comical, that, like, He didn't want to answer.
	Question asked.
	Didn't have an answer.
	Didn't want an answer.
	Like, didn't want to answer.
	And literally looked around the room, Kaiser Soze style.
	Naming, like, I'm in a hotel room.
	Blah, blah, blah.
	Like, all that.
	How will they be chosen?
	Curtains!
	Fuck.
	Yeah, exactly.
	Hats!
	Like, yeah, it's that.
	That's absolute.
	I watched his eyeballs do that.
	Pick a name out of a hat.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Like, oh, cameras!
	Cameras!
	I'm on camera in a hotel room!
	Like, that is not sophisticated.
	We'll have a game show, that's how we'll choose them, cameras.
	There we go.
	Yeah, yeah, definitely.
	Lamp, suit.
	It was barely not, that answer was barely not.
	Yeah, like naming chair, lamp, suit.
	So obviously dodging and it does surprise me that the Paxman kind of let him get away with it because had that been a politician or someone else there's no way he wouldn't have hammered on that point for the next 10 minutes until eventually they said it.
	So, next, you know how Brand has weird ideas about how things work and how things should work, like charity, and explaining something means you created the thing you're explaining, etc.
	Well, here's another slightly weird take.
	There are many people who would agree with you.
	Good!
	The current system is not engaging with all sorts of problems.
	Yes.
	And they feel apathetic.
	Really apathetic.
	But if they were to take you seriously, And not to vote.
	Yeah, they shouldn't vote.
	That's one thing they should do.
	Don't bother voting.
	Because then when it reaches... There's a point.
	So these little valves, these sort of like little cosy little valves of recycling and Prius and like, you know, turn up somewhere.
	It stops us reaching the point where we think, oh this is enough now.
	Stop voting.
	Stop pretending.
	Wake up.
	Be in reality now.
	Time to be in reality now.
	Why vote?
	We know it's not going to make any difference.
	We know that already.
	I have more impact at West Ham United cheering them on and they lost the city unnecessarily, sadly.
	Okay, well now you're being facetious.
	Well, facetiousness has as much value as seriousness.
	I think you're making a mistake of mistaking seriousness for solidity.
	We're not going to solve world problems by facetiousness.
	We're not going to solve them with the current system.
	At least facetiousness is funny.
	Sometimes.
	Yeah, sometimes Jeremy.
	Paxman enjoying himself there, he's like, okay, you got me, you got me!
	So, what he's advocating here is for people to stop voting so that things get worse and we the people will finally have had enough and will then spark a revolution.
	Like, what an incredibly stupid and dangerous thing to want.
	Accelerationism is where we're going now!
	Fucking brilliant.
	I honestly dread to think the position the people of the UK would be in had the Tories won any more a considerable majority in the Houses of Parliament than they already have.
	Democracy as it stands, according to Russell in 2013, exists as a pressure valve to allow people to blow off steam while actually the system maintains the status quo.
	Okay, let's pretend that's true for a second, and I think there is a point wrapped up in there somewhere, but explain to me how the answer to this problem is not voting and therefore not being represented.
	It's just not.
	That's not how you deal with the problem.
	Right.
	And I will say that the days that I don't feel great about voting and the way that voting works in this country, those days can be a bummer and it doesn't feel good.
	But those are my feelings.
	When someone else looks down the barrel of a camera and says, don't vote, that's a very, like, I immediately, I'm like, it's, it's, I'm like, oh, well, that's sus.
	Something else is going on with you.
	Yeah.
	Because you don't get to tell me Yeah.
	that like you don't tell me to not vote.
	There's enough people in this country already saying don't vote in their own way and disenfranchising voters
	and keeping us out of the political system.
	You're just as bad if you're the one telling other people Don't vote.
	What's weird is that in the years after this, he would keep saying, and I don't know whether he'd say it today, but he would keep saying, oh, I never said not to vote.
	I never said don't vote.
	Yeah, you did.
	We just saw you do it.
	Looked down the barrel of the camera.
	We just saw you do it.
	No, people shouldn't vote.
	They shouldn't do that, no.
	Yeah, like a dog in a low-budget movie that doesn't know better, looking down the barrel of a camera.
	That's really cute.
	That paints Russell in a far more sympathetic light than I would hold him in.
	You're being very generous.
	I'll allow it for the Russell of ten years ago to be nicer about it.
	That's fine.
	Terrified extra?
	Those are fun too.
	We're dealing with a very different person.
	Next, yet again, Paxman makes a far more accurate point than he could have imagined.
	So listen, so let's approach this optimistically.
	You've spent your whole career berating and haranguing politicians, and then when someone like me, a comedian, goes, yeah, they're all worthless, what's the point in engaging with any of them, you sort of have a go at me because I'm not poor anymore.
	No, I'm not having a go at you about that.
	I'm just asking you why we should take you seriously when you're so unspecific.
	Firstly, I don't mind if you take me seriously.
	I'm here just to draw attention to a few ideas.
	I just want to have a little bit of a laugh.
	I'm saying there are people with alternative ideas that are far better qualified than I am and far better qualified, more importantly, than the people that are currently doing that job because they're not attempting to solve these problems.
	They're not.
	They're attempting to placate the population.
	The measures that are currently being taken around climate change are indifferent, will not solve the problem.
	It's possible, as human beings, they're simply overwhelmed by the scale of the problem.
	Not really.
	Well, possibly.
	It might be that.
	But that's just semantics, really.
	Whether they're overwhelmed by it or tacitly maintaining it because of habitual...
	I disagree with that point.
	He's saying here that intent doesn't matter, that it's the same whether people are honestly trying to deal with something but are overwhelmed, or if they're intentionally complicit in not doing much about climate change.
	And I very much beg to differ.
	One person is at least trying to solve the problem, even if they're a little bit inept.
	The other is intentionally making it worse for the sake of profit.
	A little bit of a fucking difference there.
	And it does kind of make you wonder about his kind of present day positions.
	If he thinks those two things are the same, maybe he thinks what he's doing today is the same as what he was doing in 2013.
	I don't know.
	The part I really liked there was Paxos question Why should we take you seriously when you're so unspecific and good lord does that apply today more than ever?
	My god Yeah, wow.
	I mean, yeah, that's it's just... Jeremy's making some insights.
	He's making some insights.
	I've got to say.
	I don't know that I can add anything to that.
	No, no.
	Well, you kind of nailed it on that one.
	He's got it.
	I would love to hear his thoughts today.
	It's got to be said.
	But yeah, he It's, I suppose, from such an experienced interviewer, it's not a great shock that he can basically see through the person opposite him, you know?
	Yeah.
	I think, you know, when you spend decades doing that, I think... But also Russell's prowess in holding the attention of a room and exercising his charisma, Like, that's expert level, and I'm watching it right now.
	It's something that the conspirituality guys have talked about a lot, that there's a specific kind of like holding someone's gaze that is kind of cult leader type behavior.
	Or even just like, you know, in the conspirituality realm, there's a lot of tricks that look sincere that Russell has already perfected.
	Yeah, yeah.
	No, he's captivating to watch.
	Give him that.
	I would say possibly more so here than modern day.
	To me personally, anyway.
	There are probably people who feel differently.
	Russell speaks a bit more sense in this next clip.
	Mate, this is what I noticed when I was in the Houses of Parliament.
	It's decorated exactly the same as Eton.
	It's decorated exactly the same as Oxford.
	So a certain type of people goes in there and thinks, oh, this makes me nervous.
	And another type of people go in there and go, this is how it should be.
	And I think that's got to change now.
	We can no longer have erroneous, duplicitous systems held in place unless it's for the only systems that serve the planet and serve the population of the planet can be allowed to survive.
	Not ones that serve elites, be they political or corporate elites.
	And this is what's currently happening.
	You don't really believe that.
	I completely believe that.
	It's like you're at a fireside with a pipe in your beard.
	Ed Miliband was an elite.
	Well he went to the same primary school as Boris though, didn't he?
	He did, but he then went to a comprehensive school in North London.
	Well, that's very good.
	That's all well and good.
	But what I'm saying is that within the existing paradigm, the change is not dramatic enough, not radical enough.
	So you can well understand public disturbances and public dissatisfaction when there are not genuine changes and genuine alternatives being offered.
	I say when there is a genuine alternative, a genuine option, then vote for that.
	But until then, don't bother.
	Why pretend?
	Why be complicit in this ridiculous illusion?
	It's a lot.
	I wonder whether Paxman would have the same response today, because that wasn't great.
	Oh, you don't really believe that, do you?
	Yeah, it's a little huffy-puffy.
	Yeah, it's just like, oh no, surely not.
	I mean, it was funny.
	Legit, that was funny.
	It was funny.
	But funny doesn't mean good.
	No, no, exactly.
	For those listening, Paxman, when he's kind of bored of someone, has a specific look of disdain that kind of glazes over his eyes, and that's kind of what happened there for a brief minute.
	And you can't glaze in this situation.
	Yeah, well, no, no, exactly.
	But yeah, so Ed Miliband, who Paxman mentioned, was at this point leader of the opposition, so leader of the Labour Party, and would go on to face off against David Cameron in the 2015 election, ultimately facing a pretty crushing defeat.
	Politics were in a different time back then and he was taken down quite considerably by an image of him badly eating a bacon sandwich just a few days before the election.
	Which The Sun, one of Murdoch's papers, used to say, This is the pig's ear Ed made of a helpless Sarnie.
	In 48 hours he could be doing the same to Britain.
	Yeah.
	That's the dung it hurts.
	It is.
	It was shockingly effective.
	Don't get me wrong, the picture of Ed Miliband eating a bacon sandwich is iconic and hilarious and I would recommend listeners just do a quick Google because it is pretty funny.
	It is funny.
	It's pretty good.
	I agree with Bran's point that systems of government should only serve the people and the planet.
	That's absolutely the way that should be.
	But it's mighty curious that the people he platforms these days seem to want to do neither of those things.
	It's a lot to watch.
	There is this gaping hole in his plan.
	It's very underpants gnomes.
	How do you think we're going to get where you want?
	We need more participation, not less, to affect this type of change.
	Also, I will say, 2013 Watching it even feels like another planet.
	It was.
	Everything pre-2016 was a different planet.
	As soon as Lemmy died, which was on the 27th, I think, of December 2015, everything went to fuck.
	I think Lemmy was the glue holding the fabric of the universe together, and ever since, it's just gotten worse and worse and worse, and everyone's gone.
	Bowie left, Alan Rickman left, Aretha Franklin left, Muhammad Ali, you know, all of these iconic people.
	Well, some of them are very old.
	There's also that.
	I know, I don't disagree.
	I think that's the most convinced I've ever been that there was a possibility of a rapture happening and we all missed it.
	I could see a Lemmy exclusive rapture.
	I'd be fine with that.
	Just Lemmy.
	He's the only one good enough to get in.
	Yeah, like The Good Place.
	The one guy got super high and accidentally figured out heaven.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just up there.
	Just to kick it.
	Lemme is up.
	bottle of jack, you know, in hand. Having a great time.
	Yeah, I think it is valuable, though, because like, yeah, to
	think about just how different because, and maybe it's just because I have a chip on my shoulder, because I haven't
	really, you know, there were there was a time, aka most of my
	life where I was very upset about ignoring bullying and and ignoring all of these very big problems.
	Just like, the narrative that I lived with the vast majority of my life Nope.
	was that if you ignore bullies, they go away.
	And if you've ever been bullied, you know that's fucking not true.
	Nope. - It is profoundly, that is a message that comes from people
	that think that they are the problem.
	And like, if you think you can change anything about yourself to make a bully stop bullying you,
	you don't understand where bullying comes from.
	That's the bully's problem.
	I'm not, I don't deserve to be bullied because, I mean, some people kind of do, but for the most part, you don't deserve to be bullied.
	Like the bully is the one that's got the wild ideas about bullying and you're not going to change that.
	And so that whole like, There was this disregard for like, oh, any path up the mountain, if someone gets there, cool.
	And there was sort of a, there's a very, like, don't upset the apple cart and just don't give them any oxygen.
	Well, obviously that hasn't worked.
	And I think we came around too late, but I think we're finally coming around.
	And again, too late, too little, too late.
	Personally, I'm a big advocate for, get a bat.
	If someone's fucking with you, get a bat.
	Make them not want to fuck with you.
	You see a Nazi, punch them in the face.
	I think that's the appropriate response.
	It's the same kind of pre-emptive, just, no.
	No.
	Just no.
	Honestly, as a person who has done a lot of street harassment, I look crazy.
	it brings the worst out in some people.
	And the best way to get them to stop is embarrass them in front of their friends.
	If their friends think they're stupid, they'll knock it off or they'll escalate.
	That's the thing, it's a wild card.
	But if we all call it out together, the thing is, is they operate the best
	can obfuscate where they're coming from or pretend it's a joke.
	You know, like, I think all those behaviors that we were sort of okay with as a society
	have finally like knocked it off.
	Bullying's not okay.
	Gaslighting's not okay.
	I mean, I tell you what, we've got a massive bullying problem in the UK in schools.
	It is horrific, the things that people, the things that kids are doing to each other these days and saying to each other.
	That's rough.
	It's fucking awful.
	And, you know, I will say, you know, you and I will have had very different, obviously, lived experiences and so, and have very different frames and physiques.
	And so there are very different ways That we are equipped to deal with these fuckers.
	I would get a bat, but then I'm six foot two, right?
	And I'm fairly broad-shouldered, et cetera, et cetera, right?
	That might not work for everyone, but the spirit of get a bat, let's say that.
	There are ways to disarm and get rid of these people.
	Well, I think just not letting it go.
	Don't, don't, don't provide cover and don't make excuses.
	That's the thing that I've learned.
	And also like, I've also had to get a, I've had to physically get a bath.
	You know, like I've had to defend myself physically a lot, which guess what?
	Makes you a little rough around the edges.
	Yes.
	I have been raised by wolves.
	Sorry, it's just made me who I am, and I hope that people don't have to keep going through that.
	Like, I don't want to, like, I have no desire to pass that on as, like, the only good option, but maybe even just, like, dealing with the reality is sometimes you do have to get a bat.
	Because a lot of folks that maybe have the privilege of not being on the receiving end and having to scramble to defend yourself Don't think it's real.
	So let's all listen to each other, validate each other's experiences, and learn how to show up in the moment when you see something fucked up going down.
	100%.
	Right, we've gone off the beaten path a little bit.
	Sorry!
	No, no, no.
	That was a valid conversation.
	In the next clip, Brand gets into why he cares about politics.
	I'm surprised you can be facetious when you're that angry about it.
	Yeah, I'm angry.
	I am angry.
	Because for me it's real.
	Because for me it's not just some peripheral thing that I turn up once in a while to a church fight for.
	For me this is what I come from.
	This is what I care about.
	So, sure, he's from a working class background and the poverty inflicted upon huge portions of the UK absolutely exacerbates issues like addiction and crime.
	He cared about it because that's where he came from.
	Let's take a look at him now, living in Oxfordshire, one of the priciest areas of the UK, away from the riffraff, recording his show in his own fancy studio so he doesn't even need to interact with anyone who isn't part of his immediate circle, and I have yet to hear him mention a single working class person on his show, unless referring to the entire working class and telling them they need a revolution.
	What I would say is, back here, he had a heart.
	These days, not so much.
	The extreme level of cynicism gained from 2013 to now is incredible.
	And I imagine through our investigations of his content, we will find out what happened, or at least be able to track it.
	But yeah it's it's it's a strange thing you know in in kind of looking up contextual clips for around this time you know there's footage of him just in conversations with regular people just just just talking to just Honest to God, you know, working class people in the UK and I would be absolutely stunned if anything like that happened today.
	I don't think it's possible for something like that.
	I mean, why would he?
	But like, that's what's tough about watching this right now, especially, thank you for allowing the bullying kind of, I mean, that's a blanket term that's kind of more, you know, that term is catching more than I'm even articulating right now.
	But the, like, Man, if he would have identified a way to turn this influence positively, like, man, he could have really been, like, could have really done something.
	It's unfortunate that this person has just turned their back, not sounding like it, but in practice, just turning their back on all this, like, ideology that they clearly believe.
	Yeah, yeah.
	It's a drag.
	It is.
	It is.
	And, you know, I think he tried.
	I think he tried to play the kind of, well, sort of Jesus figure, basically, for this kind of movement, for this political movement.
	You know, he's got his book, Revolution.
	That will be one of our stretch goals, by the way, is covering, I think, probably that book.
	It's like 10 hours long or something.
	And he wrote it in 2014 and has a lot of A lot of vagarisms, a lot of, I don't know, there's a lot to deal with there, but there's an audio version that he read himself, so, you know, we could, yeah, we'll get into that once we hit the goal.
	Yeah, it just seems like there's a lot of, like, when your thesis is don't vote, and I don't have a better option.
	And like, all this ideology that keeps being spouted off just turns into flowery language.
	You really cut yourself off at the knees.
	Yeah, there are developments to that position and we'll get into those shortly.
	None of them good.
	But first, next we have our final clip of this interview, which for some reason randomly cuts off at the end.
	I couldn't find any other version of this interview anywhere.
	I'm sure there was a longer version, but certainly not one that was broadcast.
	So here we go.
	Do you see any hope?
	Remember that?
	Yeah, totally.
	There's going to be a revolution.
	It's totally going to happen.
	I ain't got a flicker of doubt.
	This is the end.
	This is time to wake up.
	I remember I see you in that programme where you look at your ancestors and you saw that when your grandmother had to brass herself or got fucked over by the aristocrats who ran her gaffe, you cried because you knew that it was unfair And what was that a century ago?
	That's happening to people now.
	I just come from a woman who's being treated like that.
	I've just been talking to a woman, today, who's being treated like that.
	So if we can engage that feeling, instead of some moment of lacrimose sentimentality trotted out on the TV for people to pour over emotional porn, if we can engage that feeling and change things, why wouldn't we?
	Why is that naive?
	Why is that not my right?
	Because I'm an actor.
	I mean, I've taken the right.
	I don't need the right from you.
	I don't need the right from anybody.
	I'm taking it.
	So, Paxton had been on one of these ancestry programs, you know, where you find out where you're from, etc, and what your ancestors did, so that's what he's referring to there.
	But, when was the last time you spoke to someone being fucked over by the government or the upper classes, Brand?
	When was the last time you sat and had a conversation with an average person in this country, or any country?
	The transformation of Brand from 2013 to now is both incredibly sad and quite infuriating.
	Today he's pushing from exactly this same place, evoking these same feelings in people, but instead is doing it to lie in his pockets in the most disingenuous displays of propaganda and profiteering.
	And it disgusts me how someone can go so far from their own supposed ideals.
	Yeah, that kind of vibe.
	And we do see, you know, we're both Knowledge Fight listeners, we're both Wonks, so like we're seeing this kind of, there is that mirror of Alex Jones letting people call in to make them feel empowered, but they're not actually empowered.
	So like there's this idea where he's created kind of this whole ecosystem of
	like the local chat and all these videos that appear to be connecting with a community and
	with the people that he seems to be concerned with here in 2013. It all looks like he's
	talking and he's connecting and it probably makes people feel as though they're talking
	to him but they're not.
	And so really the chat is this place for his followers to entertain each other under this kind
	of form.
	false notion that daddy's gonna see them and he's obviously not buying a cameo from a famous person does not mean you purchased a new friend no no no exactly it's it's um you know it's uh it's as he put it uh bringing people deeper into the community um which is just a horrifying turn of phrase um in the context of of what he does Yeah.
	So I have another clip for you because I got curious as to whether anything changed for Brand in terms of voting.
	It's from 2015 and from Brand's former YouTube show, The Trues.
	What I heard Ed Miliband say is if we speak, he will listen.
	So on that basis, I think we've got no choice but to take decisive action to end the danger of the Conservative Party.
	David Cameron might think I'm a joke, but I don't think there's anything funny about what the Conservative Party have been doing to this country, and we have to stop them.
	So my view is this.
	If you're Scottish, you don't need an English person telling you what to do.
	You know what you're going to be doing.
	If you're in Brighton, I think it would be a travesty if we lost the voice of Caroline Lucas in Westminster.
	But anywhere else, you've got to vote Labour.
	You've got to get the Conservative Party out of government in this country so that we can begin community-led activism.
	So that we can be heard continually.
	So on housing, on On poverty, inequality, on working, on all of these things for the most vulnerable, for the most powerful, so that we have a voice and that we can build a society.
	Of course the election isn't going to change things overnight.
	It's going to be not enough of a change.
	There's loads of things I could complain about with Ed Miliband.
	There's loads of things from Trident, the mugs with immigrants, there's loads of things I could moan about.
	But what's important is, this bloke will be in Parliament and I think this bloke will listen to us.
	So on May 7th, vote Labour.
	On May 8th, more democracy.
	More democracy.
	More power to more communities.
	For all of us.
	For me.
	For you.
	For Troos.
	For Troosers.
	Subscribe here!
	So, Brand endorses voting for Ed Miliband, pinning him as the answer to all things, apparently.
	He was interviewed by Brand on The Trues, and after that interview, Russell posted this here video.
	I already mentioned the outcome of the 2015 election, after which he expressed regret for endorsing Miliband, presumably only because he lost.
	Brand supposedly also voted for Miliband, ending his streak of not voting.
	After Miliband resigned, he was succeeded by Jeremy Corbyn, who was something of a political revolutionary at the time.
	Corbyn stood for getting power and money back into the hands of the people rather than the government and corporations, and he wanted to do things like bring the railways back into state ownership, raise corporation tax, and do away with student loans so higher education is free like it used to be in this country.
	Brand has said he doesn't want all the credit for Corbyn coming to the fore, but he does want some credit, saying he was at least partially responsible for the Labour leader's ascent to power.
	I think there's zero evidence of that, and personally, it speaks more to the old-school left and the younger generation of the left banding together to elect someone who represented their ideals for once.
	Brand wrote a piece on his website endorsing Corbyn and presumably voted for him in the 2019 election where he was roundly defeated by Boris Johnson.
	That was probably one of the most crushing elections I personally have felt as on one side we had genuine hope and change and on the other a representation of the literal worst people in society and somehow Boris won it.
	Imagine, like, in 2008 if Obama had lost, you know, minus the obvious racial implications, I think it would have felt a bit similar.
	You know, someone who genuinely seems to represent hope.
	Bush v. Gore was... I was 16 and it was awful.
	It was awful to watch.
	Yeah.
	Because that was just straight up illegal.
	And that's what happened.
	And that's before I was of age to vote.
	And that had a massive impact on me.
	Absolutely.
	It was truly crushing.
	Yeah, I completely, we had Tony Blair at the time.
	And so like as a kid that's like, oh, I'm powerless and no one is there to protect me.
	No one is looking out for us.
	This could just happen.
	And it did.
	Pretty much, yeah.
	If all the ducks are in a row in the right places then elections can actually get stolen.
	But yeah, so we had him endorsing Miliband and then Jeremy Corbyn and now in 2023 we have him endorsing the likes of RFK Jr.
	and providing endless cover for Donald Trump.
	He doesn't talk about, he doesn't really talk much about British politicians these days, simply saying they're all the same.
	And look, you know, current leader of the opposition Keir Starmer is a centre-left politician who I'm by no means a fan of.
	Thus far he's not provided much in the way of an actual opposition.
	But to suggest that he's the same as the literal oligarch Prime Minister Rishi Sunak is reductive and fucking stupid.
	That election, by the way, will be taking place in January 2025, so you and I are going to have a busy 2024 with the US elections in the November, and then immediately followed by the January, so that's going to be an absolute shitshow.
	Okay.
	I'll do it.
	I'll do it.
	Yeah.
	We're doing it.
	We're doing it.
	It's a lot.
	Gotta just keep hacking away at it.
	Boy oh boy.
	I'm very curious to hear what some of Brand's narratives are going to be.
	I mean, I think in the US, obviously, it's going to be Biden against someone.
	So I think we know which side of the fence he's going to land on that one because he doesn't like Biden.
	So he'll be saying, yeah, well, probably probably not vote, but he'll definitely be providing positive coverage of the Republican nominee, whoever the fuck that's going to be.
	But I don't know what he's going to do in the UK.
	I don't know which direction he's going to swing with that because, like I said, he just keeps saying that they're all the same, which they are not.
	I just think it's there's like there's whatever is going to serve him best.
	That's what he's going to do.
	I'm not sure what that is in this case.
	I don't know, in terms of his UK listeners, which direction they'll be going.
	I don't know how many of them were fond of Boris.
	Not many people in this country were particularly fond of Boris, to be honest.
	Other than the people who thought he was funny.
	Yeah, I really don't know.
	I really don't know which direction it's going to head.
	It's just hard to listen to anything that he said, because there's this big asterisk of the bottom line, don't vote.
	But also, now that we know who he wants to interview, who he wants to associate himself with, and I think that class analysis... Yeah, who he's willing to have on his show raises... Yeah, I think that the difference from 10 years ago is, oh yeah, fame and fortune rots your brain.
	We know that.
	We know that to be just what happens to human beings, with fame and fortune, Hmm.
	your brain. So then class analysis is the only way that you can really look at his motives
	is like he's rich recognizes rich. So to hear like to know the position he has now and the
	megaphone he has now and how this person that we just watched in 2013 how maybe they would have
	used their voice versus how he is now using his voice because just as an example you know a podcast
	that like.
	[BLANK_AUDIO]
	Stemmed out of one successful podcast, you know, has made more successful podcasts is like, It Could Happen Here.
	It's a daily show that actually features local activists that are doing work on the ground.
	And if you care about a revolution or what, you know, like you're not going to be interviewing RFK Jr.
	You're not going to be interviewing the old guy that's doing push-ups on the internet over and over.
	That's for clicks.
	Yeah, you might get him once, but then the rest of the time you're going to be interviewing people, working at fucking soup kitchens or whatever.
	You're going to be dealing with the people who are actually agitating for some change, which he's not doing in the slightest.
	Yeah, I think a rich person is going to think, because they don't interact with poors, that they're going to think, well, I'm doing my job.
	I'm interviewing these people.
	No, there's a whole slew of people you could be interviewing that are actually doing work on the ground, and you just don't see it anymore.
	At all.
	There's a question of conflating it with populism.
	Basically being, ah, the poors seem to like this figure, therefore I'll interview them, therefore I'm doing my job.
	And it's like, well, no.
	No, no you're not.
	That's not how that works.
	I mean, he's read a lot, he's fairly educated on certain things.
	One would think he would understand the problems with populism, but he seems to fucking love it.
	It feels good.
	It feels good to be loved.
	It feels good and it serves his interests.
	So why would he fight it?
	It feels good and pays great.
	But you can already feel like, ah, it just feels so much more cynical and horrible compared to what we've just been dealing with.
	I'm like, oh God, back to reality.
	Fucking hell.
	Yeah.
	This is a great contrast.
	Thank you.
	But, like, thank you for this contrast because, like, it's so important and obviously, like, obviously he is gunning for the attention of the election.
	Like, that 2024 election, like, whatever is going to get eyeballs on his content.
	Yep.
	And get more Manscaped orders.
	That's what he's gonna do.
	More Fielder Greens!
	More Cancer Powder.
	Yeah, yeah.
	He's definitely, definitely gotten on that train early.
	But, you know, as we say, it serves his interests.
	But, you know, I was listening to one thing that was covering Russell Brand and kind of the people who follow him now.
	And what is interesting is how many of them have followed him For a long time have followed him since around this time and actually were quite inspired by him You know, and I find that really interesting.
	I'd be I'd be curious to know Kind of I don't know whether there's any any sense of like, oh no, he's he's turned a bit, you know Whether there's anything that he's that Russell has ever said that these people disagree with I'd I'd I don't know.
	I'd be curious.
	Because obviously, as we've established, the positions of 2013 Russell are pretty fucking different to the positions now, even if they're packaged in a similar kind of way.
	So I don't know.
	Maybe just no one's noticed.
	Maybe.
	Well, I think that there's something to be said for, like, even what I noticed, because, like, you know, you're going into these clips having seen them and digested them in some way, but they're hitting me for the first time, and my reactions are constantly to make excuses, and, like, the vagaries that he leaves in leaves enough space for, like, your brain fills the Mad Lib in for whatever you, like, your position already is.
	So I think that he could be, I mean it's like a horoscope, you're talking to a lot of people, but it sounds personal.
	Yeah, you know, I think that that's definitely a big aspect of it for sure.
	But yeah, I'd be I'd be I would love to know.
	I would love to be able to speak to some of these people and have an honest conversation.
	I don't know whether whether that's even possible.
	Yeah, I don't know.
	I don't I don't know.
	I don't know.
	In any case, I'd love to know.
	I'd love to meet some former brand followers because they've had to be some of those.
	That would be great.
	I'd love to have a chat with them.
	But we shall see.
	In the meantime, that's our show.
	If you want to follow us on socials anywhere, we're pretty much everywhere at the On Brand Pod, I think.
	Email us is theonbrandpod at gmail.com.
	And if you want to support us and what we do on Patreon, that's also theonbrandpod.
	Patreon.com slash theonbrandpod.
	Is there anything else?
	Have I missed anything?
	Oh, leave a message on Spotify.
	Or just email one in.
	Leave a voice message too.
	Yeah, record something and email it to us.
	That's also fine.
	Oh, and follow us on TikTok as well.
	We have a TikTok now.
	And you know, I'm shit posting on there.
	So that's good fun.
	Yeah, that's been fun.
	It's been cool.
	Um, yeah, let's see.
	Do I have anything?
	Do you have any plugs for next thing?
	No, I think I'm going to, I'm trying to get together.
	Oh, I don't have anything right to hand that I can show off in this, in this last piece, but yeah, the, um, I'll be post.
	I mean, I'm always posting.
	I'm not, I don't post nearly enough.
	That's a lie.
	Uh, I, well, I'm working on it, but yeah, I'm trying to do some more stuff.
	I'll probably be doing some releases here soon of, uh, A better web store and art and things that you can enjoy.
	Cool!
	That's exciting.
	Enjoy, purchase, all the above on my own Instagram.
	Which is appmade.buy.lauren.b.
	Yeah!
	Yeah!
	So that's just a general, that's the general I make stuff generally this week.
	Yeah, yeah.
	And it's awesome.
	So go and take a look.
	But yeah, we're looking forward to that web store coming together.
	And I'm Al Worth Official, by the way.
	We're both fairly active on Instagram, so you know.
	Um, even if I don't post half the time, I'm lurking somewhere, somewhere in the background.
	Yeah, holler at us!
	Find a place to holler at us on YouTube or on Instagram, you know, wherever.
	And, well, we try to make the rounds because that's been really fun and great.
	Reminds me, before I forget, thank you to all the new YouTube subscribers as well.
	I see you.
	You're great.
	Thank you.
	And new subscribers across the board, you know, the podcast apps and everything else.
	I acknowledge that you are there.
	I see you.
	Well, most of you anyway, so some of you get reported to me and then I go and click on the little link and I'm like, oh, we have people on here too.
	So yeah, that's great.
	Thank you very much.
	Yeah, and rates and reviews make it easier for everybody to find us too.
	Absolutely, tell a friend, tell your mum, tell someone, and that'd be great.
	Ask them how they feel about Russell Brand, and then see what their response is, and how that makes you feel.
	Usually it makes me feel gross.
	And that's it, I think, and we'll be back next week with a much longer show, I imagine.
	This is remarkably short for our purposes.
	Definitely not used to that, but cool.
	In the meantime, Bye!
	Bye!
	Bye bye bye!
	Bye!
	Bye bye bye!

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