NXR Podcast - THE SPECIAL - Christian Nationalism Meets America First (w/Nick Fuentes)
Aired: 2026-01-02
Duration: 01:07:24


=== Why We Focus on Nick Fuentes (03:55) ===

[00:00:00]  Maybe I'm more liberal than you.
[00:00:03]  I don't know what the penalties would be specifically, but I think certainly the government needs to enforce some level of morality within reason.
[00:00:15]  And I think what you're talking about when you say the perpetual indulgence, these are deliberately subversive, morally subversive.
[00:00:25]  There's no positive good where that could be defended.
[00:00:29]  This is just one episode of a 10 part series with perhaps. The most controversial man in America, namely Nicholas J. Fuentes.
[00:00:39]  Now, the whole series will eventually be made public right here with one new episode dropping each week on Wednesday.
[00:00:48]  And we're not just talking about Nick's childhood experiences or what he did in college back in the day.
[00:00:54]  No, we're focusing our exclusive attention on what Nick believes.
[00:01:00]  What is it that Nick really thinks about race, women, Trump, Israel, Jews, masculinity?
[00:01:07]  And even more.
[00:01:08]  That's what this series is all about.
[00:01:11]  It's a one stop shop to focus on the core tenets of Nick Fuentes' beliefs on the major headline issues of our day.
[00:01:20]  Now, you're going to have to wait a total of 10 weeks for this to slow drip out to the public.
[00:01:26]  However, for those of you who may be interested, you can binge watch all 10 episodes ad free today by heading over to patreon.com and searching NXR Studios.
[00:01:39]  And now, back to our show.
[00:01:43]  This is the first of a 10 part series with Nicholas J. Fuentes.
[00:01:50]  Each episode will drop once per week on Wednesdays at 11 a.m. Central Time.
[00:01:56]  Now, some of you may be wondering why?
[00:02:00]  Why would you sit down and interview him for over 10 hours?
[00:02:05]  Well, one of the answers is because, to our knowledge, so far, no one else has.
[00:02:12]  We didn't want to just do a one sitting.
[00:02:15]  Where, hey, tell me about your college experience.
[00:02:18]  Tell me about the time that Ben Shapiro blew up your Twitter account.
[00:02:23]  No, we wanted to have a thorough, one stop shop, deep dive on the core tenets of the man's actual beliefs.
[00:02:34]  What does he really believe about faith, about politics, about Israel, about America, foreign affairs, men, women, Jews, Catholics, Protestants, the whole nine yards?
[00:02:47]  Now, why?
[00:02:48]  Why does it matter what he believes?
[00:02:50]  Well, because he's not merely the most controversial man in America.
[00:02:55]  For pretty much everyone under the age of 45, he's arguably also the most significant man in America.
[00:03:03]  And whether you love him or hate him, your neighbors are listening to what he has to say.
[00:03:11]  And so, why not actually get to the bottom of it?
[00:03:14]  Why not ask the questions that need to be asked?
[00:03:18]  What do you think?
[00:03:19]  About every single major headline issue that matters in our day.
[00:03:26]  Now, there's another reason that we chose to do this series with Nick.
[00:03:32]  See, if you had a time machine and you could go back to 2012, 2013, 2014, knowing what you know today about Donald Trump, and you could sit down with him back then and interview him for over 10 hours, would you do it?
[00:03:48]  Even people who hate Trump, if they were honest, would say yes.
[00:03:54]  Why?

=== The Christian Nationalist Argument (03:51) ===

[00:03:55]  Because you see the man's significance.
[00:03:59]  You can call me stupid, and maybe I am.
[00:04:01]  Maybe as time goes on, there'll be egg on my face.
[00:04:05]  But I think that the energy surrounding Nick Fuentes in 2025 and now 2026 is eerily similar to the energy that was surrounding Trump back in 2015.
[00:04:18]  I'll go ahead and publicly say it.
[00:04:20]  I have nothing to lose.
[00:04:21]  Maybe I'm wrong, but maybe I'm right.
[00:04:24]  I believe Nick Fuentes will one day either be president or, at minimum, A quintessential kingmaker with such profound influence that whoever is president won't be able to get there without Nick's support.
[00:04:40]  And if a man really is that significant, if he actually has that kind of momentum, then it behooves us to hear him out.
[00:04:51]  For better or for worse, what does he actually think?
[00:04:55]  And so, in this one stop shop, 10 part series, we get to the bottom.
[00:05:01]  Of the core tenets of his convictions and beliefs about everything right now in America that seems to matter most.
[00:05:11]  Tune in now.
[00:05:13]  Radical Christian nationalist pastor Joel Webbin.
[00:05:17]  Joel Webbin.
[00:05:19]  I'm going to talk about Joel Webbin.
[00:05:21]  Joel Webbin is an excellent.
[00:05:42]  Nicholas J. J.
[00:05:44]  Yes.
[00:05:45]  Fuentes.
[00:05:46]  In the flesh.
[00:05:47]  Nice to meet you.
[00:05:48]  Yes.
[00:05:48]  Nice to meet you too.
[00:05:49]  Yeah.
[00:05:50]  So, this is actually going to be a 10 part series.
[00:05:52]  It's not just a one and done.
[00:05:54]  You were gracious with your time, came out, spent about half a week with us last fall by the time that this is airing.
[00:06:02]  And we want to do a lot of good with this series.
[00:06:05]  And so, it's going to be 10 parts, and we are reserving nothing.
[00:06:08]  I gave you my word that nothing's going to be behind the paywall or, you know, Keep it in the vault.
[00:06:14]  You'll never get to see it unless you give us your money.
[00:06:16]  We are going to have kind of some of the raw footage available for ad free and early access.
[00:06:24]  So if anybody is like, you know, they're watching this, it's the first episode, and they're like, 10?
[00:06:30]  It's 10 parts?
[00:06:31]  I want to get it all, you know, right now.
[00:06:33]  So if you want to binge watch it, you can.
[00:06:35]  And we're going to make that available.
[00:06:37]  You hear about that a little bit later, how to get that.
[00:06:40]  But if you're like, nah, I don't want to have to pay for it, it will all come out, but we're going to do one at a time.
[00:06:44]  So one episode.
[00:06:46]  Per week for 10 weeks.
[00:06:48]  So, this is probably going to go all the way through halfway into March.
[00:06:52]  So, I'm excited.
[00:06:53]  So, first thing that I thought we should talk about is America First and Christian nationalism.
[00:07:00]  You're a Christian nationalist, right?
[00:07:02]  Yes.
[00:07:03]  Okay.
[00:07:03]  So, I want to ask you about America First.
[00:07:05]  But first, let's start with the Christian nationalist piece.
[00:07:09]  Obviously, they both run into each other.
[00:07:11]  When you say you're a Christian nationalist, what do you mean by that?
[00:07:16]  I believe that America is a Christian nation.
[00:07:18]  Yeah.
[00:07:19]  Which is sort of in the name Christian nationalist.
[00:07:21]  America is a Christian nation.
[00:07:23]  And I think that Christianity is an essential part of America's identity.
[00:07:29]  Fundamentally, I think that America should have a Christian government, is what I think that ultimately comes down to.
[00:07:35]  And if you want to get very specific and detailed about it, I believe that only Christians should be legislators, judges, and in the executive branch.
[00:07:46]  Amen.

=== America as a Christian Nation (03:19) ===

[00:07:47]  I think that if Christianity is right and true, if God has a law, Then our government should follow that.
[00:07:53]  I think that's historically our identity.
[00:07:55]  I think that's the truth.
[00:07:57]  I think that's consistent with what our civilization is.
[00:08:00]  So I would start there.
[00:08:01]  I think that we should have a fully Christian government.
[00:08:05]  What do you think?
[00:08:06]  I agree wholeheartedly.
[00:08:07]  Lex Rex, the law is above the king.
[00:08:10]  I'm actually comfortable with the king.
[00:08:13]  I think just because of America's founding and history, I think we could functionally get there, but I don't think we would ever call someone a king.
[00:08:20]  You know, it's just not in our blood.
[00:08:22]  As Americans, there's an aversion to that.
[00:08:25]  But even if there was a monarch, the law of God is still ultimately the ruler, lex rex, the law above the king.
[00:08:34]  In terms of the law of God, we have all these statutes throughout the Old Testament, and then many of them restated, and some new ones in the New Testament.
[00:08:42]  But the summary of the law would be the Decalogue, the Ten Commandments, Exodus chapter 20.
[00:08:48]  That really summarizes the law.
[00:08:50]  And then Jesus summarizes it even further when he says, the first and greatest commandment is to love the Lord our God with all our heart, soul, mind, strength.
[00:08:58]  Strength.
[00:08:58]  And the second is like it, that we should love our neighbor as ourselves.
[00:09:01]  All of the law, he continues, and the prophets hinge, they rest on these two commandments.
[00:09:08]  So the way I see it is, you know, Jesus is love God, love neighbor.
[00:09:13]  That being a summary of a summary, being the Decalogue, the Ten Commandments.
[00:09:17]  The Ten Commandments, there's 10 of them, but really they fall into two tables.
[00:09:21]  You have the first four of the Ten Commandments.
[00:09:23]  Now I know Catholics and Protestants, we count them a little differently, but in the Protestant case, it's, you know, it's the first four of the Ten Commandments.
[00:09:31]  Are in regards to how to love God.
[00:09:32]  Have no other gods before me.
[00:09:34]  Don't make graven images.
[00:09:36]  Don't take the Lord's name in vain.
[00:09:38]  And remember the Sabbath and keep it holy.
[00:09:39]  The next six is love for neighbor.
[00:09:42]  And it's honor your father and mother, don't murder, don't commit adultery, don't steal, don't bear false witness, and don't covet.
[00:09:49]  And so Jesus says, love God, love neighbor, the Ten Commandments.
[00:09:54]  This is how to love God with a little bit more specificity and how to love neighbor.
[00:09:58]  And then everything else, all these Old Testament civil statues, they ultimately fall underneath one of the Ten Commandments, whether it's a parapet around the border of your roof.
[00:10:09]  Right, you have to have like this railing.
[00:10:12]  Well, that's they don't have HVAC during the summer months, they're sleeping on the roof, and you're loving your neighbor by making sure he doesn't fall off in the middle of the night and break his leg, you know.
[00:10:21]  So, even that you can root to the commandment, the sixth commandment, thou shalt not murder, stated in the positive sense, would be uh, thou shalt protect and esteem the safety and dignity of human life.
[00:10:33]  So, we can look at that even in our Western context and say, uh, well, that's silly, that's that's uh, primitive, you know, you Bible thumpers.
[00:10:41]  Well, we have laws about speed limits and seatbelts.
[00:10:45]  And we're just not up on the roof anymore, but find me a two story balcony in anybody's home that doesn't have a railing.
[00:10:52]  And if it didn't, eventually there'd probably be a legal issue.
[00:10:55]  So it's not that different.
[00:10:59]  We're like that still to this day.
[00:11:01]  So if we're going to have laws, I'd like to see them modeled off of the scripture.

=== Defining the Basis of Free Speech (04:48) ===

[00:11:07]  So my question, I guess, to you though, is this is where I see a lot of Christians start to say, well, not that.
[00:11:13]  The first table, the law.
[00:11:15]  A lot of guys will say, yeah, we need laws.
[00:11:17]  As it pertains to loving neighbor, protecting his safety, these kinds of things.
[00:11:22]  But I don't want blasphemy laws.
[00:11:24]  Like, what about, you know, like, so, you know, the first of the Ten Commandments, we can't have that, all Ten Commandments on a courthouse.
[00:11:31]  It's like, well, I have bad news for you.
[00:11:33]  We can't do that because freedom of religion, which I look at freedom of religion and I, at some level, as a Christian, I'm like, so freedom for idolatry?
[00:11:43]  Like, I mean, what is that other than like, hey, in America, we protect the freedom for people to worship sand demons.
[00:11:50]  And erect 90 foot tall statues to some false god.
[00:11:57]  I think that we've always had blasphemy laws.
[00:11:59]  It's not whether, but which.
[00:12:02]  And I'm not saying some kid who says JC should go to jail, but like the sisters of perpetual indulgence gyrating in front of a man dressed up like Christ on a cross in a public parade, believe it or not, jail right away, jail.
[00:12:16]  Right, right.
[00:12:17]  Would you agree with that?
[00:12:19]  I would.
[00:12:19]  I think I would agree with that.
[00:12:20]  And I think that.
[00:12:22]  It's interesting how people in this country have such an aversion to anything that looks or sounds like that.
[00:12:29]  But you look at very modern countries in the Middle East, for example, like the United Arab Emirates.
[00:12:36]  People go to Dubai, and this is a hotspot for the world's rich, for entertainers.
[00:12:42]  And a lot of people go there who are pretty secular and pretty liberal.
[00:12:47]  But everybody knows that when you go to Dubai or Riyadh, for that matter, or any of these Gulf countries, which are very wealthy, very modern, technologically sophisticated, And cosmopolitan, even everybody knows the rules, and the rules are you don't disrespect Islam, and the whole country abides by that.
[00:13:06]  And there's laws governing public displays of affection, modesty, all kinds of things.
[00:13:11]  And nobody seems to have a problem because they know they don't mess around there, they take their religion seriously.
[00:13:17]  And when you land at that airport, everybody knows you got to play by those rules, and people seem to be okay with that.
[00:13:23]  But for some reason, in America, even the The insinuation that you might have something like that for Christ, for the church.
[00:13:32]  People say it's the handmaiden's tale.
[00:13:34]  It's Gilead.
[00:13:35]  This is regressive.
[00:13:37]  What is this?
[00:13:37]  The Middle Ages.
[00:13:39]  And maybe I'm more liberal than you.
[00:13:44]  I don't know what the penalties would be specifically, but I think certainly the government needs to enforce some level of morality within reason.
[00:13:56]  And I think what you're talking about when you say the perpetual indulgence, these are deliberately subversive, morally subversive.
[00:14:06]  There's no positive good.
[00:14:08]  Where that could be defended.
[00:14:10]  I don't know that I would outlaw, let's say, heresy, because there should be room for religious debate.
[00:14:17]  It's like there always has been in the church or at different councils and things like that.
[00:14:21]  But something that is deliberately and intentionally meant to blaspheme and offend God and the morals of any decent person, I don't think there's any basis for that.
[00:14:33]  And so, of course, in America at the same time, we have a tradition of freedom of speech.
[00:14:38]  But maybe we need to articulate what the basis of free speech is.
[00:14:42]  Why is free speech good?
[00:14:44]  If free speech is good insofar as we could debate about what form of government is best or what kind of society we should have, I'm willing to be more liberal when it comes to things like that.
[00:14:55]  But filth, which is like pornography, for example, that's not political speech.
[00:15:02]  No.
[00:15:02]  And I don't think there's anything positively good.
[00:15:05]  I don't even actually consider it speech.
[00:15:07]  It's not religious speech either.
[00:15:09]  No.
[00:15:09]  Although I have seen some Jews say that.
[00:15:11]  Both abortion and pornography are Jewish religious sacraments, which is interesting.
[00:15:16]  Very interesting.
[00:15:18]  So, I tend to agree.
[00:15:20]  I don't, like I said, I'm probably not as conservative when it comes to religious law as maybe you are, or some Protestants, or even for that matter, some traditional Catholics who say there should be no freedom of religion, which is, I think, what you're saying.
[00:15:35]  But I certainly think that there should be some basic standards like they have in Russia or any other country.
[00:15:42]  So, from my position, I think that it's just.
[00:15:45]  There are degrees.
[00:15:47]  So, like Tom Cruise, Minority Report, I don't want, you know, where we're predicting crimes and even policing.

=== Sins Versus Crimes and Penalties (17:49) ===

[00:15:56]  When I think of Old Testament Israel, the actual Jews, I think of, you know, there's not really a police system, right?
[00:16:05]  So there's punitive justice, but they're not going around, you know, back to the parapet, you know, the border on the roof.
[00:16:13]  There's no, at least no recording.
[00:16:16]  In the Old Testament, of the parapet committee, you know, that would go house to house, you know, annually to measure and make sure that they hit the metrics.
[00:16:25]  It's like, you need to have a parapet.
[00:16:29]  And if you don't, then you get arrested.
[00:16:31]  Nope.
[00:16:32]  If you don't, then you're liable if something happens, right?
[00:16:37]  So if you don't have a border on your roof and nobody ever gets hurt, no harm, no foul.
[00:16:43]  If somebody does get hurt and you had a border, then it's on them.
[00:16:47]  If they do get hurt and you didn't have a border, Now you're liable.
[00:16:51]  The same with like a bull, you know, that's accustomed to gore.
[00:16:55]  Well, you could have a violent bull, but if nobody gets gored, you're okay.
[00:17:00]  But if they do, and you've already, you know, like you've known and that that can be proven in a court that you knew that this was a dangerous animal and it hurts someone, then it's not just that the animal, the bull is stoned according to the Old Testament, and so is the owner.
[00:17:17]  Personally, the general equity of that principle, I'll get some flack for this, but I'd apply it to pit bulls.
[00:17:24]  You can have a pit bull, but that dog is genetically bred in such a way that it is extremely dangerous, especially to children.
[00:17:34]  And so you can own a pit bull.
[00:17:36]  In America, you know, I say that you can own a tiger if you want.
[00:17:40]  But if you own a golden retriever and it has a really bad day and does something, you know, tragic, the golden retriever is put to death and you're probably going to have to go to court and those kinds of things.
[00:17:51]  But I don't think you get locked in jail.
[00:17:53]  But you have a pit bull that has that reputation.
[00:17:58]  And the pit bull kills, you know, two little five year old girls.
[00:18:01]  The pit bull gets put down and so do you.
[00:18:04]  That would be my position.
[00:18:06]  So I say all that to say one, there are degrees.
[00:18:09]  But two, also just the system itself, it's less of a policing.
[00:18:13]  So there's actually a lot of freedom.
[00:18:15]  Like people are like, well, I don't want the government to tell me what to do in my bedroom.
[00:18:18]  Well, the government currently tells you how to build your bedroom, right?
[00:18:21]  The studs have to be this many inches between.
[00:18:24]  Like we police everything.
[00:18:26]  And it's also costly.
[00:18:27]  Like when you think of just how much management is required, how many taxes we're spending for people to tell us every single thing to do.
[00:18:37]  But a system that's punitive and retributive.
[00:18:41]  Rather than constantly trying to predict and stop crimes before they even occur.
[00:18:46]  And then, in terms of the degrees, the last thing I would say is we're not talking about the Muslim police that go into private homes and are rounding people up.
[00:18:55]  So, a lot of this for me, when it comes to the first table of law and things like idolatry and false religions, the major factor there would be there's a difference between sins and crimes.
[00:19:05]  And I think you have to have that category, that distinction.
[00:19:09]  There's plenty of sin.
[00:19:10]  I have sin.
[00:19:12]  But The state has no business in punishing sin that belongs to the church, whether it's confession or whether it's excommunication or barred from the sacraments or whatever it may be.
[00:19:23]  For a time, sin is dealt with by ultimately God and through the avenue of the church.
[00:19:29]  Crimes are dealt with by the state.
[00:19:31]  And there are some sins that, biblically speaking, are not crimes.
[00:19:35]  It is a sin, but it's not a crime.
[00:19:37]  So I would say Muslims worshiping in their homes is not a crime.
[00:19:41]  Muslims erecting a 90 foot Tall statue outside of Houston.
[00:19:45]  I think that's a crime.
[00:19:46]  And I think people involved with that should have some kind of penalty, whether it's a fine, this, that, or the other.
[00:19:52]  And the statue should be ground to dust.
[00:19:54]  We don't do that here.
[00:19:55]  This is America.
[00:19:56]  We're a Christian nation.
[00:19:57]  Say Christ is Lord.
[00:19:59]  That would be my view.
[00:20:01]  So now giving it a little bit more specificity, what do you think about that?
[00:20:05]  I like that.
[00:20:06]  I like that approach because I think what people, when people hear moral law, they hear moral police.
[00:20:14]  That's what they hear.
[00:20:14]  Right.
[00:20:15]  And what they think about is that you're going to have inquisitors kicking down the door if somebody's watching an R rated movie or something like that, which I think anybody would be opposed to, and rightly so.
[00:20:27]  I believe in liberty.
[00:20:29]  And I think that part of that comes with, I also like the distinction of crime and sin.
[00:20:34]  People do have the liberty to sin, and that's why we have the sacraments, because we're going to sin and we don't want to sin and we try not to, but it's not a crime to do that.
[00:20:43]  And we're supposed to be given a chance to repent and to spiritually grow.
[00:20:47]  So I do like that distinction.
[00:20:51]  And I don't know that I would necessarily agree with the death penalty in many or even most cases.
[00:20:58]  I tend to be anti death penalty in almost all, except for terrorists or.
[00:21:03]  What about murder?
[00:21:05]  It depends on the type of murder.
[00:21:07]  I didn't know this about you.
[00:21:08]  Yeah, I think even murder should be spared.
[00:21:10]  Yeah.
[00:21:11]  Really?
[00:21:11]  Why?
[00:21:12]  Because I think they should be given to.
[00:21:14]  So you really like the current Pope then, huh?
[00:21:16]  Because he just said that.
[00:21:17]  Yeah, I tend to think that the death penalty is no longer totally necessary.
[00:21:23]  I think in the old days, you literally needed to kill these people because you really couldn't accommodate them in prison forever.
[00:21:32]  But now I think that society can accommodate that.
[00:21:34]  And I think that only the most heinous crimes should be punished by death.
[00:21:38]  I think everybody else should be given the room.
[00:21:41]  One, I do really worry about the killing of innocent people that are falsely convicted.
[00:21:47]  Yeah, that's a huge part of it.
[00:21:48]  But also, I think that people should be given a chance to repent.
[00:21:52]  And I don't think those are necessarily our lives to take, even for the government.
[00:21:56]  So I tend to be more, and maybe that's because I'm a political dissident.
[00:22:00]  So I'm a little biased.
[00:22:01]  Yeah.
[00:22:02]  I tend to get anxious when I think about the government having license to freely kill people.
[00:22:06]  You know, that's going to be me.
[00:22:08]  They do it anyway, I suppose, extrajudicially all the time.
[00:22:13]  But no, I tend to be more against the death penalty than for it.
[00:22:16]  At the foot of Mount Sinai, a nation met its God in thunder and fire.
[00:22:23]  From that covenant flowed the faith of Abraham, Moses, and the prophets, fulfilled, not replaced, in Christ.
[00:22:33]  But somewhere between the martyrs and the modern West, the truth was blurred.
[00:22:39]  Politicians and pastors began speaking of a Judeo Christian civilization, a phrase born not of Sinai, but in Washington, tracing its roots not to Moses, but to the Pharisees.
[00:22:55]  The hyphenated heresy challenges the myth of the hyphen, tracing how it reshaped Christian identity, redefined the church's witness, and bound modern faith to political Zionism.
[00:23:09]  Pick up your copy today.
[00:23:11]  On Amazon.com.
[00:23:16]  Okay, so with the death penalty, I have to go on record and say in the case of murder, I think that the death penalty is not only permissible, but biblically speaking, I think that it's mandated.
[00:23:28]  And I root that not just in the deck log, but the No Way Covenant.
[00:23:32]  And if any man takes another man's life, he forfeits his own.
[00:23:37]  But as it pertains to what we were talking about just right before that, So, sins versus crimes, not policing, you know, that made you feel like, okay, I could see that.
[00:23:48]  In terms of now, like, degrees of punishment and the death penalty being the highest capital punishment, the way that I read the Old Testament, because in the Old Testament, it's not just murder, right?
[00:24:00]  Genesis 9, Noah 8, covenant, that's there.
[00:24:02]  But then you start getting into Leviticus and, you know, Numbers, and it's like, if you carry, you know, a bundle of sticks on the Sabbath, Death, you know, like, you know, an unruly son who's disrespectful or strikes his father, you know, in rebellion, death.
[00:24:21]  I mean, I'll admit, as a Christian pastor, I've read the Bible once or twice.
[00:24:25]  And yeah, I mean, the death penalty is pretty, God's pretty generous with the death penalty in the Old Testament.
[00:24:31]  Pretty liberal with that.
[00:24:32]  Pretty liberal with that.
[00:24:35]  And one thing that really helped me, I remember reading one theologian, and actually, his name is.
[00:24:42]  Rush Dooney.
[00:24:44]  And he talked about like, so think of it like this the state of Texas, like you'll see, don't mess with Texas, which sadly I can tell you, you can absolutely mess with Texas.
[00:24:54]  Texas is pretty limp wristed, sadly, but don't mess with Texas, don't litter.
[00:25:00]  And you'll see the signs, and it's like littering can be penalized up to.
[00:25:05]  And so it's like the implication is there's a scale.
[00:25:08]  And so it's like up to $5,000 fine or two years in prison.
[00:25:13]  But I personally, I don't know about you, but I don't know anybody who's currently doing a hard time, you know, for throwing away a candy wrapper out of the car window.
[00:25:21]  But I think the reason it's there is because you like, even though it seems silly, like nobody would do that.
[00:25:27]  I mean, there are some actually retarded people in the world who might.
[00:25:31]  I think of the repeat offender.
[00:25:34]  So it's like, it's one thing if it's like you throw a candy wrapper out.
[00:25:38]  But what if you've been pulled over 47 times this year for littering?
[00:25:44]  And then you got bigger and bigger to where you're burning all of your trash and rubber tires in the backyard to own the libs.
[00:25:52]  Meanwhile, you're literally destroying the earth.
[00:25:56]  And it's just more and more.
[00:25:57]  Well, eventually, it's like, yeah, I think you actually should go to prison.
[00:26:01]  Even then, I wouldn't say the death penalty.
[00:26:02]  But when I look at all these Old Testament laws outside of murder, life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, I think that's proportional justice.
[00:26:09]  But in those cases where it's not murder, you're not taking a life, I think the death penalty is often cited.
[00:26:15]  But I think it's cited kind of like the litter sign in Texas.
[00:26:19]  I think it's cited as a maximum penalty and would be reserved.
[00:26:23]  Like, as I've studied, if a son strikes his father in rebellion, he's put to death.
[00:26:27]  I've read a bunch of historians, different guys.
[00:26:30]  There's actually not one case in all of Old Testament Israel's history.
[00:26:34]  Of that ever being carried out.
[00:26:36]  So it's like, here's this law.
[00:26:38]  But, and I don't think it's just that it wasn't enforced.
[00:26:41]  I think they knew, right?
[00:26:42]  We have what's in scripture rated.
[00:26:44]  We don't have all the side conversations and things like that.
[00:26:46]  I think they knew, like, this is not just like a five year old throwing a tantrum, right?
[00:26:51]  This is, and even next to it says, or if he is a drunkard.
[00:26:55]  It's not talking about a little kid.
[00:26:56]  It's talking about a grown man with his elderly parents publicly shaming mom and dad, which is debauchery and rebellion.
[00:27:04]  And likely, I think we're meant to assume.
[00:27:06]  Repeat offender.
[00:27:07]  He's been brought, you know, before the elders in Israel and told he needs to get in line.
[00:27:12]  And he's just, there's zero restraint.
[00:27:14]  And, um, and it's not just a personal insult, like slap one cheek, turn the other.
[00:27:19]  Uh, but he's, he's violent.
[00:27:21]  He's dangerous.
[00:27:22]  He's a liability.
[00:27:24]  Um, he's criminal.
[00:27:25]  Um, and I think, yeah, uh, that to the nth degree, uh, can go all the way up, although they never had to enforce it, but could theoretically go all the way up to death.
[00:27:36]  That helps me.
[00:27:36]  Like when I think of homosexuals, for instance, it's like, Joel, so do you think all homosexuals should be?
[00:27:42]  Stoned.
[00:27:42]  It's like, well, bullets are little stones.
[00:27:44]  You know, like that.
[00:27:45]  You know, like I don't think we have to pick up, but no, I'm being facetious.
[00:27:48]  No, I don't.
[00:27:49]  But I think that they're, I think it's a sin and I think that it can become a crime.
[00:27:56]  So it's one thing if it's two guys, that's how the whole slippery slope happened.
[00:28:00]  They're like, oh, it's just, we just want the same rights as you.
[00:28:03]  Yeah, but then you gave them an inch and now it's like, hey, kids in the public library, sit in my lap as I'm dressed up as a drag queen and we're going to put porn in all of your books and we're going to like, Yeah, so I think that, like, or in New York, a gay pride parade with grown men with their genitalia hanging out in front of children on the sidelines, like, okay, now we're talking about a crime.
[00:28:24]  Right.
[00:28:25]  You know, and even then, I'm not saying immediately it has to, but a crime, some kind of penalty.
[00:28:31]  And then are they so brazen they turn around next year and do it again?
[00:28:35]  Right.
[00:28:35]  You know, and do it again.
[00:28:36]  What do you do if it's like the 10th year anniversary?
[00:28:39]  They've been doing it for a decade running.
[00:28:40]  Every single time you find them or you did that, like, eventually, um, There has to be a harsher penalty.
[00:28:46]  So that's even that.
[00:28:47]  I know a lot of our listeners would be like, that's hardcore, but like, just, just, I think it helps, honestly, because a lot of people will point to the Old Testament, God's punishment.
[00:28:56]  They'll say he's severe, he's too harsh.
[00:28:59]  I like fleshing this out, if nothing else, just to, just to, to, to defend the character of God.
[00:29:06]  That like God actually isn't harsh.
[00:29:09]  He, he knew what he was doing, he knew what he was thinking.
[00:29:12]  And there are conceivable, even in our modern society, there are conceivable situations.
[00:29:18]  And our mind immediately goes again to the five year old kid who said, Dad, I'm mad at you.
[00:29:23]  That's not what the Old Testament was talking about.
[00:29:26]  Any thoughts on that?
[00:29:27]  Yeah, I think that's very helpful because I think there is, rightly so, maybe, I think there is such an aversion to that in the public consciousness the idea of an executioner swinging an axe because of, you know, and you're Protestant because someone said a swear word.
[00:29:44]  Like that's the kind of thing that people think.
[00:29:46]  Right.
[00:29:46]  And I can't help it, me being from a very liberal city like Chicago and even growing up in a suburb that was pretty liberal and permissive.
[00:29:57]  I think, and as an American, there's just sort of a natural aversion to that.
[00:30:01]  Yeah, there is.
[00:30:02]  And to kind of an extremely punitive justice system.
[00:30:06]  And I have to tell you, as a Christian, I don't come away from the gospel thinking that the state should be liberal with murder or should be liberal, let's say, with the death penalty.
[00:30:19]  I, with that being said, believe that people should be put in prison.
[00:30:23]  There should be a lot more people in prison.
[00:30:26]  And I've said before on my show, I think the prisons should be made more humane.
[00:30:31]  Because then we could put more people there for longer.
[00:30:34]  The reason that we don't like prison a lot is because the prison is like you can die in prison.
[00:30:40]  You get raped in prison.
[00:30:43]  It's inhumane in some ways.
[00:30:45]  But I think that we should make them maybe more modern and nicer so we feel comfortable sending people there so that they can be rehabilitated.
[00:30:54]  I do believe that we should have a society that's forgiving.
[00:30:57]  But I also agree that what you're describing, I don't think anybody has a problem with in principle, which is that.
[00:31:04]  People that cannot get along in society should be removed from society, whether that's put in a box forever or whether they get the death penalty or banishment or ban or right ostracism, banishment, exile, anything like that.
[00:31:20]  Um, and it is helpful to think of the worst case scenario because I think you strike me as a warm hearted person, I'm a warm hearted person.
[00:31:30]  I don't think that society should be looking to inflict punishment on people, however.
[00:31:36]  Evil exists.
[00:31:38]  And it is instructive to think of the worst case examples.
[00:31:41]  Like as a Catholic, I think of Satanists who will go and steal one of the blessed hosts.
[00:31:47]  They'll go and steal the bread during the Mass and use it in a black Mass or to desecrate it.
[00:31:54]  And someone who is doing that, I think, should get the death penalty because that is the body of Christ.
[00:32:02]  So, you know, maybe coming at it from a different point of view.
[00:32:04]  That way.
[00:32:05]  Yeah, different point of view.
[00:32:05]  I can understand it better.
[00:32:06]  But I do appreciate that, although we have different views on the sacraments.
[00:32:09]  I do appreciate that because that's not the Satanist physically hurting any person, neighbor, but that's actually a desecration of God, according to the Catholic view.
[00:32:18]  So that would be a first table, you know, like love the Lord.
[00:32:22]  And I appreciate that because even among Protestants, like I've gotten a lot of pushback.
[00:32:27]  A lot of Protestants who are like devout in love, love the Lord and want to see America be a Christian nation, they still, there's just something in their American DNA, when I would argue modern American, because America wasn't actually always this way.
[00:32:43]  America had, I mean, We had blue laws, Sabbath laws, we had blasphemy laws, right?
[00:32:48]  So it's not even just once upon a time in Israel.
[00:32:52]  No, it's like it's been done before, it's been done recently, and it's been done here.
[00:32:56]  Right.
[00:32:57]  It actually is American, actually is.
[00:32:59]  Hasn't been for a little while, but actually is.
[00:33:01]  But yet, what I'm saying is that a lot of these Protestants who really love God and not questioning that and really want the country to be Christian, they still, anything within the first table.
[00:33:13]  So they would differ from you.
[00:33:14]  They'd be like, yeah, murder is capital punishment.
[00:33:18]  But the example that you gave, like something that's exclusively only a desecrate, you know, blaspheming the church, blaspheming Christ, they would say, well, yeah, that's really bad and that should be frowned upon.
[00:33:31]  But the state has no business enforcing any kind of moral law of God within the first table of the law.
[00:33:40]  Love the Lord your God.
[00:33:42]  Don't make any graven images.
[00:33:44]  Don't take his name in vain.

=== Constitutional Intent and Globalism (15:04) ===

[00:33:45]  Remember the Sabbath.
[00:33:45]  And the fact that you actually have like a case study that would fall in that category.
[00:33:51]  Is based, I like it good so well, yeah, because that's something that can never be excused or pardoned with good intent.
[00:34:01]  Nobody would accidentally that is so intentional and so malicious.
[00:34:06]  Nobody would accidentally conspire to take the blessed sacrament and desecrate it in an evil ritual by accident or with good intent.
[00:34:16]  Or, I mean, that's just evil, yeah.
[00:34:19]  I can see a couple Protestants doing that, yeah, I suppose because.
[00:34:24]  How dare you?
[00:34:25]  You're extremely anti Catholic, sure.
[00:34:27]  Yeah.
[00:34:28]  You know, but yeah, so I could understand that in some cases.
[00:34:32]  I just think it's also important to preserve, like, let's be honest.
[00:34:37]  We, and I agree with you, 60 years ago, we had some very intense laws on the books about sodomy, about race mixing, about blasphemy.
[00:34:45]  Pornography was effectively illegal for a long time.
[00:34:48]  There was a case with Larry Flint, which is what made it more permissive.
[00:34:52]  And I think that we've clearly just gone way too far in the opposite direction.
[00:34:56]  Yes.
[00:34:56]  I don't want to go back.
[00:34:58]  To the middle ages, I don't even necessarily want to go back to the 1800s, but I think that we have definitely just gone so far in the opposite direction where anyone can recognize you go into the city square and it's nudity, weed, public intoxication, public displays of affection, and by that I mean in some cases people are having sex openly in public, people are naked protesting in Portland, and uh, this is not a decent society we want to live in.
[00:35:26]  And I agree that once it crosses into scandal, scandalizing others, children.
[00:35:33]  It's offending other people, trespassing on the commons.
[00:35:36]  I think that does then become subject to the law.
[00:35:39]  And I like what you said, even about that slippery slope.
[00:35:43]  They talk about the privacy of their own homes.
[00:35:46]  It's sort of paradoxical because they were never arguing for discretion.
[00:35:51]  They were never arguing for let us be private.
[00:35:54]  It was always, whether it was homosexuals or anything for that matter, they wanted to bring it out into the public and for it to be tolerated openly, acknowledged.
[00:36:07]  And so it's sort of strange because that's the argument people always use is, well, what about privacy?
[00:36:12]  I don't think anyone has a problem with discretion and privacy.
[00:36:15]  They have a problem with what it is now, which is loud and proud, public, vulgar for the sake of it, transgressive and offensive, provocative for the sake of it.
[00:36:25]  And why would a decent society tolerate that?
[00:36:28]  And predatory.
[00:36:29]  Yes.
[00:36:30]  With children.
[00:36:31]  Yeah, malevolent.
[00:36:31]  Yeah.
[00:36:33]  I agree.
[00:36:34]  Last thing that I would do, like, as you know, I would.
[00:36:37]  Absolutely, I call myself a Christian nationalist and I helped with a group of guys and writing a statement on Christian nationalism a few years back.
[00:36:43]  Last thing that I would do, there's a million things, but big macro picture.
[00:36:48]  So, legislation, laws, we've talked about that.
[00:36:51]  I think one of the not so rare, sadly, founders, L's, is I think they should have more explicitly named the Lord Jesus Christ.
[00:37:06]  And so, I actually like the Constitution.
[00:37:10]  I just, I don't think that we can, I'm not hopeful that we can get back to it.
[00:37:15]  You know, that'd be great to just constitution even harder, you know, but it just hasn't been working out for us for quite a while.
[00:37:21]  I don't think we're going to be able to just vote our way out of it.
[00:37:23]  I think some, if history, you know, is any bearing, I think something else is going to happen.
[00:37:30]  But I do like the Constitution.
[00:37:32]  I think you would have to get back to authorial intent with the First Amendment and those kinds of things, you know, like Congress shall make no religion.
[00:37:39]  So, yeah, so Congress at a federal level, no, I don't think that the state can come and say we're going to have a national.
[00:37:47]  Church, and it's going to be this particular string, it's going to be Episcopalian, and all the Presbyterians and all the Catholics and all the Baptists are going to be punished.
[00:37:55]  I think that's un American.
[00:37:58]  And I think that was probably included in the realm of thought of the founders.
[00:38:03]  But what was probably not their authorial intent that they weren't thinking about at all, I don't think they could even conceive of like millions of Hindus, you know what I mean?
[00:38:12]  Right.
[00:38:12]  Millions of Muslims.
[00:38:15]  When the First Amendment was written, I don't think they were saying, we want to make sure that.
[00:38:21]  In Minnesota, an entire town could be overrun by Muslims and they could set up statues and have prayer sirens and calls to prayer.
[00:38:33]  If they knew that that was going to happen, I think the First Amendment would look a little bit different.
[00:38:39]  So when they say freedom of religion and those kinds of things, I think I've read even some commentators on that, like early commentators.
[00:38:47]  It was freedom in regards to various expressions of worship.
[00:38:52]  Toward our common Lord.
[00:38:55]  You know what I mean?
[00:38:56]  That Catholics and Protestants want to kill each other, that Baptists and Presbyterians want to try to drown each other.
[00:39:05]  I don't think it was so that millions of Muslims can live here and worship a sand demon.
[00:39:10]  Right.
[00:39:11]  I don't think that's what it was.
[00:39:12]  So if we could get back to authorial intent, then I mostly like the Constitution.
[00:39:17]  First 10 amendments are pretty good.
[00:39:18]  Some of the latter ones I'd like to revisit, you know.
[00:39:20]  But last thing, though, is I do think like a preamble.
[00:39:25]  I would love to see the Nicene Creed adopted as a preamble to the Constitution, where we are.
[00:39:32]  And I like creeds.
[00:39:34]  I like confessions.
[00:39:35]  I like the Westminster.
[00:39:36]  I like the 1689.
[00:39:38]  But I like creedal because it's more encompassing.
[00:39:42]  A creed is precisely specific enough to where no non Christian can affirm it, but also intentionally general enough to where the Christians don't turn on each other.
[00:39:54]  Right.
[00:39:55]  You like the Nicene Creed.
[00:39:56]  I do.
[00:39:56]  I like the Nicene Creed.
[00:39:58]  So that seems like a good, you know, like, so, like, right before we get to the Constitution, let's start with that.
[00:40:05]  Name the Lord Jesus Christ.
[00:40:07]  Then let's have the first 10 amendments and the actual authority or intent.
[00:40:11]  Let's maybe get rid of a few of the latter ones or amend them.
[00:40:15]  And, you know, and then let's actually legislate not a deep police state, but with gradations and using prudence and also compassion and recognizing that the first table of the law, actually, some of those things are not just sins, but crimes.
[00:40:29]  And then other things are just sins.
[00:40:31]  And they, The state has no business in it.
[00:40:33]  And by God, we could have our home again.
[00:40:36]  You know, it'd be really nice.
[00:40:37]  So that's to me, Christian nationalism, America first.
[00:40:41]  Can you talk to us about that?
[00:40:43]  Yes.
[00:40:44]  You know, I call myself America first because when we talk about who we are, you know, what is our grouping, people tend to say we're conservative or right wing.
[00:40:54]  Right, right.
[00:40:55]  And I heard that my whole life.
[00:40:57]  And I always identified as a conservative or libertarian or right wing or something.
[00:41:01]  And these are terms that increasingly don't really have meaning.
[00:41:04]  What actually does that mean?
[00:41:06]  And people have to ask themselves what is a conservative?
[00:41:08]  Because now we're being told it's conservative to be a religious pluralist in favor of multiracialism.
[00:41:16]  It's like, so what actually people ask are we even conserving or serious about conserving?
[00:41:22]  And then people get to something like, well, being a conservative is being a liberal, it's being a right liberal, a classical liberal.
[00:41:31]  It's like, okay, so is conservatism even a tangible thing?
[00:41:36]  And I look at myself in the context of, What has happened in the past 30 years, which is globalization and the globalization of the government with the supranational institutions like the IMF, the World Bank, the United Nations,
[00:41:52]  these institutions that sit on top of our government, as well as the influence of foreign interests, multinational corporations, foreign intelligence agencies, the globalization of the population with open borders, immigrants pouring in.
[00:42:07]  And this is even to your point about the intention of the Constitution.
[00:42:11]  Was it intended for there to be?
[00:42:13]  Millions of Indians, Chinese, and foreigners here.
[00:42:17]  The answer is no.
[00:42:18]  We're becoming globalized in terms of the demographics and the globalization of the economy through free trade, which is the interdependence of the United States with China, Mexico, Canada, these supply chains which make us dependent on other countries.
[00:42:35]  And so it's in the context of globalization that I don't feel like a conservative where they're preoccupied with limiting the size of government or Vague appeals to family values, which become more vague and generic all the time.
[00:42:50]  You could say that 20 years ago, to be conservative was to be Christian.
[00:42:55]  Now in 2025, if you ask Turning Point USA, they say it's ethical monotheism.
[00:43:02]  They have to say that to accommodate Jews, Muslims, Hindus.
[00:43:05]  That's terrible.
[00:43:06]  Right?
[00:43:07]  What are you conserving?
[00:43:08]  It's like arguably 100 years ago, maybe it was Presbyterian or Episcopalian, like a very American denomination.
[00:43:16]  Then it became like, well, we're one nation under God, Christian God.
[00:43:21]  Now it's like ethical monotheism.
[00:43:23]  I wonder what it'll be like in 100 years when we have like polytheism and pagans.
[00:43:27]  It'll just be like all, they'd be like deists or something.
[00:43:33]  And so, anyway, I look at conservatives as basically they're just not speaking the same language anymore.
[00:43:43]  It doesn't seem to have a hard definition, it doesn't seem to have answers for the actual problems affecting.
[00:43:49]  Real Americans.
[00:43:50]  I said, so my real ideology, which is something I was searching for in 2016 when Trump was elected, when Trump ran in 2016, he didn't say I'm the most conservative.
[00:44:02]  He didn't say I'm the most right wing or the most Republican.
[00:44:06]  He said, I'm America first.
[00:44:08]  He said, this is about globalism and nationalism, not liberals and conservatives, Democrats and Republicans.
[00:44:15]  It's about globalists, internationalists, and nationalists, people that want to put the American people first.
[00:44:21]  And in his inaugural, that's where I got the name of my show.
[00:44:24]  And just funny story when I started my show with Right Side Broadcasting Network, they asked me what I wanted to call the show.
[00:44:32]  And my first instinct was the Nicholas J. Fuentes show.
[00:44:36]  And they said, Well, that's too long.
[00:44:37]  No one knows who you are, no one knows your name.
[00:44:40]  I was like, Okay.
[00:44:42]  They said, So you need something shorter, something different.
[00:44:45]  And I really had no idea.
[00:44:47]  A month later, Trump gave his inaugural.
[00:44:49]  And in the inaugural, he said, A new vision will govern our land.
[00:44:52]  It's going to be only America first.
[00:44:54]  Yeah.
[00:44:55]  And I heard that and I said, that's it.
[00:44:58]  Like that.
[00:45:00]  And it's because that really encapsulates who we are.
[00:45:04]  When I say we and like our kind of people and they, the people that are against us, it's those that want to have a sense of American identity, that it's about the American people and their history, their heritage, going all the way back even before the founding, before the settlement of the North American continent, where we come from, who we really are, and putting that first, that that's the priority, explicitly identifying as Americans.
[00:45:32]  And even what was the point of the border wall?
[00:45:36]  Yes, it's to keep foreigners out.
[00:45:38]  But I thought it was bigger than that.
[00:45:40]  It was a tangible representation that said, This is America.
[00:45:46]  That is the rest of the world.
[00:45:48]  It gave us definition in a physical way.
[00:45:51]  And I said, That's who I am.
[00:45:52]  I'm America first.
[00:45:54]  And that's something that Ben Shapiro could not claim.
[00:45:58]  The Democrats could not claim.
[00:46:00]  You could even say the capitalist class.
[00:46:03]  And by those, not to sound communist, but the wealthy, the owners.
[00:46:07]  The people that own the multinational corporations and they live everywhere.
[00:46:13]  They have houses in Europe and Asia and America.
[00:46:16]  They do business everywhere.
[00:46:17]  They could not even call themselves America first.
[00:46:20]  Because typically you think it's conservative and liberals, and conservative over here, it's free trade, capitalism.
[00:46:29]  Or like a Ben Shapiro type, he'd be like, oh, he's one of us.
[00:46:33]  And those were kind of the dividing lines.
[00:46:35]  And we're like, how come things just keep getting worse?
[00:46:37]  And we're like, well, it's like, It's ping pong, but like both sides are really just two sides of the same coin.
[00:46:44]  And you're right.
[00:46:45]  Trump really, in a lot of ways, said, like, the reason we keep losing is because both teams are against you.
[00:46:51]  Both teams.
[00:46:52]  Like, there's a that's not the paradigm, liberal, conservative.
[00:46:55]  The paradigm is the world or us, you know?
[00:47:01]  And I think you saw that early and hopped on it.
[00:47:05]  And that's kind of been your legacy for the last 10 years.
[00:47:08]  Yes.
[00:47:09]  Well, that's how I position myself because.
[00:47:12]  I look at someone like a Charles Koch, let's say, and say he's not America first.
[00:47:18]  If you're in favor of like ultimate deregulation, ultimate neoliberalism, free trade, the rest of it, you're not really on my team, even if you're in favor of capitalism broadly or traditional values or something like that.
[00:47:34]  And the same goes for Shapiro or Soros.
[00:47:36]  It was really just about properly setting people on the right sides of the issue.
[00:47:42]  And So, for 10 years, I've been creating this space where I didn't.
[00:47:48]  And what's interesting, which I don't talk about too much anymore, but this is very relevant in 2017, is it seemed that there was this, there was no faction or no space for somebody that I would call a true alternative to the right wing.
[00:48:06]  You had the term alt right, which was extremely popular in 2016.
[00:48:11]  And that label went through a lot of changes.
[00:48:15]  In 2016, to be alt right, Meant that you weren't an establishment Republican.
[00:48:21]  Because in 2015, right up until Trump announced, you really had Bush Republicanism, Bush conservatism.
[00:48:28]  And that's just what there was individual responsibility, small government, free markets.
[00:48:35]  That's what it was to be right, even the wars to be right wing.
[00:48:39]  Trump comes along and says, I'm a nationalist, not a globalist.
[00:48:43]  And you just get this flood of new ideas.
[00:48:45]  You get the French new right.
[00:48:47]  You get the perennialists like Evola.

=== Pat Buchanan and Alt-Right Identity (02:13) ===

[00:48:50]  You get White nationalists, white identitarians, race realists, Holocaust revisionists, anti Semites.
[00:48:58]  You get all these other people that were right wing, like they were anti left, but they didn't fit that old mold of conservatism.
[00:49:06]  And so people said, this is the alternative right.
[00:49:08]  This is an alternative to what we're getting.
[00:49:11]  And Trump wins the election.
[00:49:13]  And after the election, alt right became something very specific.
[00:49:19]  And it really meant like anti American, anti Christian, because it was a lot of racialists, pure racialists, that said, it's not about America, it's about whites.
[00:49:31]  Right.
[00:49:31]  Or, People that were against Christianity because they saw Christianity's left wing.
[00:49:36]  They see it as a Nietzschean.
[00:49:38]  Like a Jewish psyop to weaken the West through a toxic compassion to eradicate white people.
[00:49:45]  Yes, and they see wokeness and leftism as proceeding from Christianity, Marxism proceeding from Christianity.
[00:49:52]  And they identified with the pagan new right in Europe, or they identified with even some atheistic or secular versions of the right wing.
[00:50:04]  And so I kind of came to realize in 2017, as Trump drifted back towards the establishment, there is really no space for something that I saw this vision so clearly, like a George Washington national identity, pro America, identifying America with its European identity, identifying America with its Christian heritage, being very far right, anti foreign wars,
[00:50:32]  right wing on the economy, but not in favor of.
[00:50:34]  Total international trade, total free trade, and things like that.
[00:50:39]  And I said, This is where I think actually most people are.
[00:50:43]  I think that people want to say Merry Christmas.
[00:50:46]  They want jobs.
[00:50:47]  They don't want immigrants.
[00:50:49]  They don't really care what the size of government is as long as it's efficacious and doing the things they want it to do well.
[00:50:55]  They don't want to fight in wars.
[00:50:57]  I said, This is where the country is.
[00:50:59]  So that was my message basically from 2017.

=== Trumpism and Economic Nationalism (06:15) ===

[00:51:03]  And you blew up into the stratosphere.
[00:51:06]  Yes, pretty impressive.
[00:51:09]  What do you, the whole time you were talking, you like Pat Buchanan, right?
[00:51:12]  Yes.
[00:51:12]  Yeah, me too.
[00:51:16]  But every Pat Buchanan has his Buckley to come and subvert and lie and slander, which that's, I mean, National Review.
[00:51:25]  And I think, you know, like, and people still say, like, it's a point of pride, you know, like, it's a good thing to be Buckley.
[00:51:32]  And I mean, he was even, you know, from my reading, he was even questioned, you know, later on in life, like, do you really think that Pat is an anti Semite?
[00:51:40]  And he was like, no.
[00:51:43]  You know, like, no.
[00:51:44]  It's like, just publicly slandered him for, you know, forever and totally just, you know, worked and subverted and took him out of the game just because he disagreed with me.
[00:51:55]  You seem to be a Buchanan of sorts.
[00:51:59]  Who are some of the Buckleys?
[00:52:01]  Who are some of the guys who have really, over the last 10 years, thinking back, not just today, because it's easy to think of what's fresh, but who are some of the guys like early on who you feel like, They saw you, saw what you're doing, maybe had an inkling of what it could become, and were like, we've got to stop it.
[00:52:21]  It was Shapiro.
[00:52:23]  Without a doubt, he was the number one op.
[00:52:25]  And people don't realize, but in those days, Shapiro was worshipped.
[00:52:29]  He was the guy.
[00:52:32]  And that's before anyone was hip to any of the Jewish stuff, Israel stuff.
[00:52:37]  People weren't seeing it back then.
[00:52:39]  And so they just looked at him as like a debate bro.
[00:52:43]  Maybe they didn't even really know he was Jewish or even what that meant.
[00:52:46]  They didn't really know the context with Israel.
[00:52:48]  And so they looked at him as like a very far right debate bro who was a no holds barred debater.
[00:52:56]  Like when he went on Piers Morgan and debated about gun control, or when he went on college campuses and owned the liberals, they saw him as like a fascist, like a fascist based young debate guy.
[00:53:12]  And Shapiro, of course, was a never trumper.
[00:53:15]  And that is because he recognized what Trump was and like the potential of what Trumpism could become.
[00:53:22]  Because when you say America first, it is basically the inverse of that is like not Israel first.
[00:53:29]  Right.
[00:53:30]  Because it's like, well, why would you need to declare America first?
[00:53:33]  Who is coming before America?
[00:53:35]  Well, you know, some people might say the UN.
[00:53:39]  Some boomers might say that.
[00:53:41]  But the real people know who comes first when we talk about the war in Iraq, who was put first there and some of these other things.
[00:53:50]  Now, Trump, he meant the whole.
[00:53:52]  International system.
[00:53:53]  He meant like South Korea, Germany, because we had troops deployed there.
[00:53:57]  He meant even these companies benefiting from offshoring the jobs or free trade agreements or things like that.
[00:54:04]  Come to find out now with hindsight, Trump meant America first over everything, maybe except for Israel.
[00:54:11]  Yes, right.
[00:54:12]  Literally.
[00:54:13]  Yeah.
[00:54:14]  Yeah.
[00:54:14]  And so, you know, Shapiro, it's sort of ironic.
[00:54:19]  Like me and Shapiro, in like a weird horseshoe kind of way, we both saw what Trumpism really was.
[00:54:26]  Right.
[00:54:27]  No one else saw it.
[00:54:28]  No one else, like, and people were arguing back then, like, is Trump a Nazi?
[00:54:33]  No, he's not.
[00:54:34]  He hires black people.
[00:54:35]  He's pro Israel, you know.
[00:54:37]  But like me and Shapiro both heard the signal through the noise.
[00:54:41]  We understood kind of the significance of what was implied, which is he's planting a seed here.
[00:54:48]  Where if you're not kind of brainwashing the boomers by telling them who's a true conservative and who's not conservative, if you cut to the chase and say, We say Merry Christmas here.
[00:55:00]  This is America.
[00:55:01]  We're building walls to keep people out and we're nationalist.
[00:55:06]  And Trump in particular is always talking about the American story pioneers, the explorers, the settlers, the industrialists.
[00:55:15]  He's quoting Napoleon.
[00:55:16]  Yes.
[00:55:17]  Pretty cool.
[00:55:18]  Quoted Mussolini.
[00:55:19]  Oh, did he remember that one?
[00:55:21]  No.
[00:55:21]  He said in the campaign, he said, he tweeted, better to live one day as a lion than a hundred as a sheep.
[00:55:29]  And some journalists said, Do you really want to be associated with Mussolini?
[00:55:34]  And he goes, I want to be associated with interesting quotes.
[00:55:39]  So good.
[00:55:40]  Yeah.
[00:55:41]  But where's that guy?
[00:55:43]  Right.
[00:55:43]  Right.
[00:55:44]  I miss him.
[00:55:45]  Yeah.
[00:55:45]  And, you know, but what they feared, what Shapiro feared, is that he was a populist.
[00:55:51]  Like he was really rallying the peasants in an anti elite message, saying, like, the problem is the elites, the rich, the government.
[00:56:01]  He was rallying the rubes around the flag and the cross.
[00:56:04]  Less so the cross, more so the flag, but there was still, it was implicit.
[00:56:08]  It was Christian rhetoric.
[00:56:09]  Yeah.
[00:56:09]  Right.
[00:56:10]  And, you know, that's just like naturally anathema to someone like Shapiro.
[00:56:15]  And by that, I mean someone who is Jewish, pro Israel.
[00:56:18]  Like he sees where that's going.
[00:56:21]  So he was stridently never Trump.
[00:56:23]  And I remember that when I was introduced to Shapiro, not directly, but this friend of mine texted Shapiro.
[00:56:30]  I told the story on PBD.
[00:56:32]  And she said, You got to take this guy under your wing.
[00:56:35]  He's amazing.
[00:56:36]  She goes, he's a little Trumpy, but you can show him what's what.
[00:56:41]  And the implication is like they knew that Trumpism was the problem.
[00:56:46]  And that's why it was very important that they assimilated Trumpism into conservatism and that they neutralize anyone that Trump activated, that he awakened.
[00:56:55]  They wanted to suppress anything that looked like Buchanan, Sam Francis, Charles Lindbergh, the old America First Committee, the Know Nothings.
[00:57:05]  They wanted to suppress that great tradition, which has been alive in America for a long time.
[00:57:10]  It seems like, you know, first wave Shapiro as a Buckley for you.
[00:57:16]  And then later on, Charlie Kirk.
[00:57:17]  Yes.

=== Neutralizing Activated Conservatism (07:34) ===

[00:57:19]  Did you guys ever?
[00:57:20]  I imagine you didn't, but did you ever get to talk to each other directly?
[00:57:25]  No.
[00:57:25]  No.
[00:57:26]  He just would never, just pretended that you didn't exist?
[00:57:28]  Yes.
[00:57:29]  Did he ever name you though?
[00:57:31]  He did.
[00:57:32]  Okay.
[00:57:32]  Once.
[00:57:33]  Once.
[00:57:33]  Okay.
[00:57:34]  That was the only time he volunteered my name.
[00:57:37]  Because other times he was asked about me, he would deliberately avoid even saying my name.
[00:57:42]  He would just say, like, that person, that guy is a troll.
[00:57:46]  But one time during the Groyper War, at the end of it, It was the most brutal event.
[00:57:53]  It was at Houston.
[00:57:55]  And so he was outside at a small table.
[00:58:00]  And he was literally just mobbed.
[00:58:02]  Like there was an angry mob that surrounded the table of Groypers.
[00:58:07]  And it was the most rowdy one because, you know, at that time, he was doing all these events and they were pretty tame.
[00:58:15]  And then the QA line would form.
[00:58:16]  And like most of them would be Groypers.
[00:58:18]  And they would respectfully wait their turn.
[00:58:20]  They'd have their little question, their rosary, their MAGA hat.
[00:58:23]  And they'd go up and respectfully ask the question, and Charlie would answer.
[00:58:26]  He'd get jeered a little bit.
[00:58:28]  But this one was like out of control because it was out in the open.
[00:58:33]  He was at a small little table and he was just surrounded by Groypers screaming, booing him, yelling at him.
[00:58:41]  It was brutal.
[00:58:42]  And at the end of it, he got a question about me to debate me.
[00:58:48]  And this was like, I get secondhand embarrassment.
[00:58:52]  He had next to him something covered in a sheet the entire time.
[00:58:57]  He pulls off the sheet at the very end.
[00:58:59]  It's a TV.
[00:59:01]  And he pulls up a clip from my show from when I was in high school.
[00:59:06]  Wow.
[00:59:07]  When I said that I didn't like Trump in like 2015.
[00:59:11]  And I was a senior in high school and I said, Trump is not a serious candidate.
[00:59:16]  You know, he needs to let someone like Ted Cruz win or whatever.
[00:59:21]  But he couldn't get the TV to work.
[00:59:23]  So he pulls off the sheet like, oh, Nick Fuentes, about that.
[00:59:28]  He takes the sheet off.
[00:59:29]  He's going to play this clip.
[00:59:31]  And like the audio is not working.
[00:59:32]  The video is like a classic AV problem.
[00:59:36]  And while he's trying to put this together, people see what's happening and they just start booing him viciously.
[00:59:42]  Charlie Kirk says, Nick Fuentes is a Groyper grifter and I'm out of here.
[00:59:48]  And he gets up to leave and the mob follows him.
[00:59:52]  So he gets up and is walking through the campus, getting followed by like 200 people chanting, America first, America first.
[01:00:01]  It was brutal.
[01:00:02]  And that was the only time he ever mentioned me.
[01:00:06]  And I honestly, it makes me a little emotional.
[01:00:08]  It's sort of tragic that I never got to talk to him.
[01:00:11]  There's like something deeply sad that we are clash in many ways, sort of defines like the Generation Z dialectic.
[01:00:21]  And it's just a crossover that never will happen now.
[01:00:25]  And it's very sad to me.
[01:00:27]  Yeah, it is sad.
[01:00:28]  Who do you think was worse, Shapiro or Kirk, towards you?
[01:00:34]  They were both pretty rough.
[01:00:36]  I would say that.
[01:00:39]  Shapiro really pursued me with a vengeance, and all of his people did too.
[01:00:44]  They were like flying monkeys.
[01:00:45]  Cabot Phillips was a big one.
[01:00:48]  Ultra.
[01:00:49]  I mean, I know I can't swear on your show, but he was a jerk.
[01:00:52]  Okay.
[01:00:53]  His dad, Tim Phillips, ran Americans for Prosperity, which is like this cutout for like corporations to sell deregulation.
[01:01:02]  And Cabot, so the guy's like royalty because his dad runs this high power, was a very powerful nonprofit.
[01:01:10]  And he was at Campus Reform.
[01:01:12]  And this guy was constantly attacking me on Twitter.
[01:01:15]  Now he's at Daily Wire as their editor in chief, I think.
[01:01:20]  But it was him.
[01:01:21]  It was Josh Hammer, who was with Daily Wire at the time.
[01:01:23]  He was always on my case.
[01:01:26]  Elliot Hamilton, Aaron Bandler.
[01:01:28]  They had a whole clique always going after me on Twitter.
[01:01:32]  But Charlie was pretty brutal, too, because they put together a highlight reel of all the clips compiled by Media Matters on Twitter.
[01:01:41]  Benny Johnson did, who worked at Turning Point and said, Here's Nick denying the Holocaust.
[01:01:46]  Here's him saying he hates women.
[01:01:48]  Here's him saying something racist about black people.
[01:01:52]  And they were like inquisitors looking for Groypers and Turning Point, firing them wherever they could find them, firing people for being in a photo with me.
[01:02:01]  Wow.
[01:02:01]  So they really blackballed me hard.
[01:02:04]  They all did.
[01:02:06]  But did you have momentum at that point?
[01:02:10]  Or they could just see the potential of what you would become?
[01:02:13]  In 2017, Shapiro went hard on me because they saw the potential.
[01:02:17]  I had no momentum.
[01:02:19]  They just saw.
[01:02:20]  It was sort of like Luke Skywalker.
[01:02:22]  Yeah.
[01:02:22]  You know, they kind of saw that I had a force ability and they're like, this guy's going to be a Jedi, you know?
[01:02:29]  In 2019, it was more like Empire Strikes Back.
[01:02:31]  Yeah.
[01:02:32]  It was like, oh, I'm going to complete your training.
[01:02:34]  Because I, in the Groyper War, I was surging, huge live stream audience, huge organic following, doing events.
[01:02:42]  And they really just tried to knock me out of orbit.
[01:02:44]  And largely they succeeded with reputational damage, censorship.
[01:02:49]  I was told that a Jewish fixer got me kicked off YouTube shortly after that.
[01:02:55]  Because, as retaliation for the Groyper War.
[01:02:58]  Wow.
[01:02:58]  Because the Groyper War was in December.
[01:03:00]  That's when I got my first strike, December 19.
[01:03:03]  And then February 2020 is when I got banned.
[01:03:06]  Wow.
[01:03:07]  So, yeah.
[01:03:08]  So, they, you know, Daily Wire tried to throttle me in the crib.
[01:03:12]  Turning Point really tried to destroy any momentum I had.
[01:03:16]  Big difference that I see between, you know, Charlie Kirk and Ben Shapiro is two.
[01:03:22]  One, and this is a big difference Charlie was a Christian.
[01:03:27]  Hmm.
[01:03:28]  Ben Shapiro, no.
[01:03:33]  And second, Charlie, you know, I wasn't an avid listener, but I would tune in every now and then if something was going viral or see this or see that.
[01:03:42]  And you see, like, you know, some of the early days.
[01:03:45]  And then, even not that long ago, maybe three years, two, three years ago, four years, maybe, where he's, you know, like raising his voice and stands up and starts shouting at someone who's saying, what place to openly, you know, Aggressively homosexual people have as leaders in the conservative movement.
[01:04:08]  And Charlie's like defending the sodomites.
[01:04:11]  Like his natural instinct is like, they're great.
[01:04:16]  Yeah.
[01:04:16]  Like, who are you to say that they can't be, you know, a part of this and leading?
[01:04:21]  And does God not love everyone?
[01:04:23]  I mean, just like every cliche cringe you could possibly imagine.
[01:04:28]  But even that, like, to be fair, He shifted.
[01:04:33]  He really did.
[01:04:34]  And so, like, when I think of Shapiro and I think of Charlie Kirk, and you know them both, you know, or about them both much better than I do, but one's a Jew, right?
[01:04:41]  And one's a Christian.
[01:04:42]  That's a pretty big difference, you know.
[01:04:44]  But then beyond that, one seems to be just kind of static.
[01:04:49]  Like, I don't feel like there is any evolution with Shapiro.

=== Evangelical Ministries and Response (02:31) ===

[01:04:53]  No.
[01:04:53]  Whereas Charlie, it's sad because it's a brother in Christ, heritage American.
[01:05:00]  And I thought he had some good stuff.
[01:05:05]  I thought he really did.
[01:05:07]  And it's interesting to see what he would have become.
[01:05:10]  You know, like, who knows where he would have landed.
[01:05:11]  I think eventually you guys would have gotten that debate.
[01:05:14]  I think so.
[01:05:14]  I think you would have.
[01:05:15]  Especially, here's the thing.
[01:05:17]  I don't think 10 years from now, I think that debate could have happened in 2026.
[01:05:22]  Yeah.
[01:05:22]  Like next year.
[01:05:23]  It's kind of crazy to think.
[01:05:25]  Any final words for this episode?
[01:05:27]  America first, Christian nationalist.
[01:05:29]  What do you think?
[01:05:31]  I think they're deeply connected.
[01:05:33]  And I think you almost can't have one without the other.
[01:05:35]  Yeah, you can't.
[01:05:36]  Yeah.
[01:05:37]  So I'm in favor of an alliance and a synthesis of the two.
[01:05:42]  I'm in.
[01:05:42]  Sounds good.
[01:05:43]  Absolutely.
[01:05:43]  Thanks for coming on the show.
[01:05:45]  Thank you.
[01:05:45]  All right.
[01:05:46]  For those of you who may not be aware, I have the immense privilege of also serving as president for a sister organization to NXR Studios, which is a nonprofit 501c3 Christian organization called Right Response Ministries.
[01:06:02]  Our focus with this organization is to train and equip pastors and congregants in the Protestant church, primarily the evangelical church, right here in America.
[01:06:15]  What are we trying to train them in?
[01:06:17]  Well, let's just say we're trying to help.
[01:06:20]  Evangelical Protestant churches in America to stop being so insufferable, to stop being Zionist shills, to be engaged, not apathetic, but activated in the realm of politics and culture.
[01:06:34]  The things that you've been hearing in this series that myself and Nick Fuentes are talking about, we want to see Protestant churches right here in America apply these things to get in the game, to win our country back.
[01:06:48]  We want to see evangelicals and Protestants in America.
[01:06:52]  Actually, be America first, not serving a foreign country at the expense of our own interest, but serving Christ and serving Americans.
[01:07:03]  If you'd like to support us in this mission, we could greatly use your help.
[01:07:08]  You can give a tax deductible donation by simply going to Right Response Ministries.com forward slash donate.
[01:07:17]  Again, that's Right Response Ministries.com forward slash donate.
[01:07:24]  God bless.