NXR Podcast - THE LIVESTREAM - Will Walsh Leave The Daily Wire? | No Enemies To The Right
Aired: 2025-10-20
Duration: 02:00:34


=== Why We Need Five Star Reviews (14:37) ===

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[00:00:32]  Matt Walsh, my doppelganger.
[00:00:36]  The blood of Catholic monarchs runs through this man's veins.
[00:00:42]  It's there, right?
[00:00:43]  The kids would say, it's a blood memory.
[00:00:45]  It's there.
[00:00:46]  He doesn't know that it's all there, but he's so close.
[00:00:50]  And you know what?
[00:00:51]  At the same time, I've got to give the guy credit.
[00:00:54]  I think he does know.
[00:00:55]  I think he does.
[00:00:56]  And I think a lot of guys have given him some grief.
[00:00:59]  And I think some of that grief has been merited.
[00:01:02]  Matt, we see greatness in you.
[00:01:05]  It's right there.
[00:01:07]  If you can just get off of the Jewish plantation, of the Israeli wire, you could soar.
[00:01:15]  You could soar.
[00:01:17]  And I think, one, there's friendship, right?
[00:01:21]  There's friendship.
[00:01:23]  He's been with the Daily Wire for quite a while.
[00:01:27]  And I think there's probably mutual affection, genuine relationship.
[00:01:32]  It's not easy.
[00:01:33]  So, I don't want to just say, well, it's just the money.
[00:01:37]  That said, friendship, cover that base.
[00:01:40]  Disclaimer has been publicly communicated.
[00:01:42]  So, now let's talk about the money.
[00:01:45]  Dude makes a lot of money, makes a lot of money.
[00:01:49]  And honestly, here's the deal.
[00:01:52]  When you think of the Daily Wire, I mean, you guys have seen some of the news we covered, some of it in terms of the financials.
[00:01:58]  Jeremy Boring, you know, leaving the Daily Wire, you know, at least at the capacity that he once held.
[00:02:05]  Uh, playing a much more minor and passive role from here on out.
[00:02:10]  Uh, and you know, Jeremy Boring kind of in some ways hurt the company by using it to try to live out his childhood fantasy of not being a movie star but being a movie director.
[00:02:22]  Right?
[00:02:22]  He's like, I've got big ideas, we're gonna do 10 gazillion movies, each one is gonna cost a hundred million dollars, and uh, and they're gonna be conservative really, they're gonna be conservative.
[00:02:33]  Like, explain conservative.
[00:02:35]  Well, we'll have a female protagonist.
[00:02:37]  All right, it's not a good start.
[00:02:38]  Go ahead, continue.
[00:02:40]  She's going to be super based, really.
[00:02:42]  Like she's going to be a mother with multiple children.
[00:02:45]  Nope, she's going to have an AR 15.
[00:02:47]  She's going to be spraying bullets.
[00:02:49]  Imagine Rambo, except it's a chick.
[00:02:53]  And this is conservative, right?
[00:02:55]  And so this is what the Daily Wire did.
[00:02:57]  This is what they've done.
[00:02:58]  You guys have seen this.
[00:03:00]  And I think it could have been good, but it's just kind of neocon, right?
[00:03:07]  It's a Judeo Christian, right?
[00:03:10]  It's not really conservative and it's just kind of in the Overton window, kind of center right, you know, but not really on the right wing.
[00:03:21]  But Matt Walsh is not like that.
[00:03:23]  I really don't think he is.
[00:03:24]  I think the guy deserves some credit.
[00:03:26]  He has, I mean, he pretty much, right?
[00:03:30]  It's not just, oh, he said some base things about race.
[00:03:32]  He's done that.
[00:03:33]  God bless him.
[00:03:35]  But in addition to that, it's not just the things he said, but it's the things that he's done.
[00:03:39]  The guy was integral.
[00:03:42]  In political elections in Virginia, in outing and changing, having the sway to where policies were literally changed on transgenderism.
[00:03:55]  And then when you think of the Daily Wire in terms of profitability, you know, Jeremy Boyne is spending every dollar that comes in, you know, on his pet dream projects.
[00:04:05]  But those dollars that are coming in, a lot of them are coming in because of Matt Walsh.
[00:04:09]  I mean, he has been, not just in his content, I think he's the best content, but in terms of just economically profitability, the dude has been the cash cow of the Daily Wire.
[00:04:21]  What is a woman?
[00:04:22]  What is a woman was incredibly successful.
[00:04:25]  Am I racist?
[00:04:26]  Right?
[00:04:27]  Incredibly successful.
[00:04:30]  Matt Walsh is kind of carrying the Daily Wire on his back and has been, maybe not from the very beginning, but I think at least over the last one to three years.
[00:04:41]  And I think a lot of people see that and a lot of people are rooting for him.
[00:04:45]  It reminds me of Tucker with Fox News, right?
[00:04:48]  There came a point where I think all of us were just like, Tucker, leave.
[00:04:52]  You're Tucker Carlson.
[00:04:54]  You will do just fine.
[00:04:55]  You don't need Fox.
[00:04:57]  Fox needs you.
[00:04:58]  Well, here's the deal I think Matt sees all that.
[00:05:00]  I don't think he's dumb.
[00:05:01]  I don't think he's naive.
[00:05:03]  And I do think that the blood of Catholic monarchs are running through that man's veins.
[00:05:09]  I think he knows.
[00:05:10]  In the same way that he's based on race, right?
[00:05:12]  He's a bit of a race realist, right?
[00:05:14]  He's not a racial determinist or essentialist.
[00:05:20]  I don't think he's mean spirited or hateful in any way, but he is a race realist.
[00:05:24]  He understands it's not just hip hop, it's not just culture.
[00:05:27]  People make culture.
[00:05:29]  There's something there that has to be accounted for.
[00:05:33]  And he's saying these things out loud.
[00:05:35]  He's saying them, I think, with wisdom and grace, but also with courage.
[00:05:41]  And to be that based on race, I guess this is my point.
[00:05:44]  You know, the dude is a little J-pilled as well, right?
[00:05:47]  He can't just, I see this and I see this and I see this.
[00:05:49]  And then there's this glaring elephant in the room.
[00:05:53]  And yet somehow he has invisible elephant glasses on.
[00:05:58]  He's aware of Israel, he is aware of some of the Jewish problems.
[00:06:03]  I know he is.
[00:06:04]  He has to be.
[00:06:06]  But I think there's friendship.
[00:06:08]  I think there's money.
[00:06:09]  I think it's probably messy.
[00:06:11]  I mean, the dude has got to be NDA'd all the way up to the top of his head.
[00:06:16]  I guarantee the Israeli wire, Ben Shapiro, probably has had Matt Walsh sign about 40 different NDAs over the last few years.
[00:06:27]  I mean, think of even Candace.
[00:06:29]  I know she's had some weird takes, but she's also been right about some pretty crazy things.
[00:06:35]  And overall, I appreciate Candace.
[00:06:38]  Well, Candace, you know, as much as she kind of just talks, and she does just talk, right?
[00:06:45]  I mean, it is a female podcaster after all.
[00:06:47]  She just kind of says it and just says everything.
[00:06:50]  You got to, you know, you got to acknowledge that she kind of sat on some of the Daily Wire drama for three years with one particular woman who was working for the Daily Wire because she was in the eight.
[00:07:01]  There were legal ramifications.
[00:07:03]  And as soon as that woman was separated from the Daily Wire, then boom, she was no longer bound and she went off.
[00:07:10]  She had like a whole episode just blasting this woman and how terrible she was and the things that she did and blah, It's probably a similar scenario.
[00:07:19]  That's what we're going to be talking about.
[00:07:21]  We're going to be talking about Matt Walsh.
[00:07:23]  We're going to be talking about some of our predictions.
[00:07:26]  We think that the time is nigh, Matt Walsh.
[00:07:30]  The time is nigh.
[00:07:30]  I think that the departure is probably going to happen in the very near future.
[00:07:35]  And we're going to talk about some of the things that have made this division between your Ben Shapiro's and Andrew Clavin.
[00:07:42]  Who is Jewish with a gay son that he defends, and other guys on the other side of the aisle, like Matt Walsh and Michael Knowles, that division has become more and more stark.
[00:07:55]  And one of the big things is this principle of netter no enemies to the right.
[00:08:01]  Matt Walsh has taken the position of you know what?
[00:08:03]  I am not going to be spending my time on Twitter on a daily basis decrying Republican group chats.
[00:08:13]  With 21 year old frat boys who made a spicy joke about Hitler, when on the other side of the political aisle, they're literally assassinating conservatives in public in front of their wife and children.
[00:08:31]  This is insane.
[00:08:32]  What are we even talking about?
[00:08:35]  Matt is, I think, taking a courageous and correct stand.
[00:08:40]  And it is inevitable.
[00:08:44]  His instincts that I think have been there all along.
[00:08:47]  As he continues to be courageous about them and consistently follow them through, he will not be able to stay yoked to Ben Shapiro.
[00:08:57]  Ben Shapiro is not interested in true Christian nationalism.
[00:09:04]  Ben Shapiro is not interested in true America first.
[00:09:08]  I'm not saying that Ben Shapiro is the worst of all Jews and blah, blah, blah.
[00:09:13]  No, there's a sliding scale, right?
[00:09:15]  Let's have some high IQ anti Semitism if you must.
[00:09:19]  Right?
[00:09:19]  Not low IQ.
[00:09:20]  Don't be foolish.
[00:09:21]  There's a difference between Sam Altman and Ben Shapiro.
[00:09:25]  There is.
[00:09:26]  At the same time, though, Ben Shapiro loves him some Israel.
[00:09:30]  And Ben Shapiro does not love Jesus.
[00:09:34]  He doesn't.
[00:09:35]  He's not interested in America being truly a Christian nation.
[00:09:40]  He wants Judeo Christianity at most, but not Christianity.
[00:09:44]  And he wants Israel slash America first, but not America first.
[00:09:49]  And as Matt Walsh continues to follow his instincts that are dead on, You got to give the guy credit.
[00:09:56]  Ben Shapiro is not going to be along for that ride.
[00:09:59]  And what the Daily Wire has boasted of, like, look, we're not a cult, right?
[00:10:03]  We're not authoritarian.
[00:10:04]  Look at what we allow for in this spectrum of disagreement.
[00:10:08]  Yeah, we'll see.
[00:10:10]  We'll see.
[00:10:12]  I don't think that that's going to continue.
[00:10:14]  That's what we're talking about.
[00:10:15]  We're going to talk about the principle of netter no enemies to the right, what that means, why it's important.
[00:10:21]  That doesn't mean that there's no sin on the right.
[00:10:23]  That doesn't mean that.
[00:10:25]  That there's never any discrepancy or failure or moral immorality on the right.
[00:10:31]  Of course, there is.
[00:10:32]  But we're going to talk about how we can, as Christians who love our brothers and sisters in Christ on the right, still provide accountability, still esteem repentance, and yet also publicly and politically not shoot our own and not sabotage our own movement, purity spiraling into oblivion, being beautiful losers forever.
[00:10:59]  We've got to stop that.
[00:11:00]  Ben Shapiro wants you to lose beautifully.
[00:11:05]  And Matt Walsh, I think, is done with that.
[00:11:07]  God bless him.
[00:11:08]  That's the episode today.
[00:11:10]  Let's tune in now.
[00:11:20]  That was a great overview of really kind of feels like the last 10 years in conservative politics.
[00:11:24]  Yeah.
[00:11:25]  We did an episode.
[00:11:26]  Is this about Buchanan and Buckley?
[00:11:28]  Yeah.
[00:11:28]  Is this about, like, I mean, there's so many.
[00:11:30]  Same story again and again.
[00:11:31]  Same story regurgitated again and again and again.
[00:11:34]  Well, we did an episode a couple months ago.
[00:11:36]  Daily Wire, you guys have to understand, 2017, 2018, they were really the first to the scene when it came to conservative podcasts, right?
[00:11:44]  Not everybody could pick up a podcast mic in 2018, and they were first.
[00:11:48]  And when you're first, you kind of get your pick of the litter, and they had an all star crowd.
[00:11:52]  You get a legacy following.
[00:11:53]  You get a legacy following.
[00:11:54]  Mike Winger, right?
[00:11:56]  Mike Winger, we disagree on some things, obviously.
[00:11:58]  I think I did a kind of spicy comment on one of his posts today on Twitter because he was saying, Well, you guys need to be appropriate with this or tone it down or whatever.
[00:12:07]  And I said, Hey, Mike, you've been first, right?
[00:12:10]  Right.
[00:12:10]  On multiple things.
[00:12:11]  And when you're first, you get to lead.
[00:12:13]  With this, you're late.
[00:12:15]  So welcome.
[00:12:16]  We're glad you're here.
[00:12:17]  Sit down.
[00:12:18]  You don't get to lead.
[00:12:19]  Grab a seat, grab a lemonade, enjoy the show.
[00:12:21]  Like, hey, it's 2025.
[00:12:23]  And I publicly posted yesterday that I've just now started to think about politics and I'm ready to lead.
[00:12:32]  My moment is now.
[00:12:33]  But my point of bringing up Mike Winger, and I like the guy, because he has been first on many other things, or early on many other things, and been helpful on theological, doctrinal things.
[00:12:43]  My point of bringing it up, when you look at Mike Winger, it's like, and listen to him.
[00:12:47]  I'm not going to sit here and say, oh, he's a loser or something like that.
[00:12:50]  I think he's been good on some stuff.
[00:12:52]  I mean, he's a moderate, so I would be further to his right on pretty much everything, not just politically.
[00:12:57]  But doctrinally, right?
[00:12:59]  It's not egalitarianism.
[00:13:00]  It's not patriarchy.
[00:13:01]  It can't possibly be that.
[00:13:02]  That seems a bit extreme.
[00:13:04]  It must be complementarianism.
[00:13:06]  You know, so on pretty much everything, I'm to his right.
[00:13:08]  But the guy is well within the bounds of orthodoxy.
[00:13:11]  He's well spoken.
[00:13:12]  He's thoroughly researched.
[00:13:14]  So I'm not saying he's not talented.
[00:13:15]  I think he is.
[00:13:17]  And I think he's been relatively faithful and I'm appreciative.
[00:13:20]  Here's the point to your point.
[00:13:23]  How in the world does the dude have well over half a million followers on YouTube?
[00:13:27]  Oh, he started YouTubing.
[00:13:29]  A long time ago.
[00:13:31]  Right.
[00:13:31]  Right.
[00:13:32]  How does Joe Rogan have the biggest podcast ever unless Spotify lets Nick Fuentes back on?
[00:13:37]  Right.
[00:13:37]  You know, but like, how?
[00:13:40]  Because Joe Rogan is a genius?
[00:13:42]  No, I don't think so.
[00:13:45]  Is he entertaining?
[00:13:45]  Yes.
[00:13:46]  So I'm not going to say, I do think he's smart.
[00:13:48]  I do.
[00:13:49]  I think he's a great interviewer.
[00:13:50]  I think he picks great guests and great topics.
[00:13:53]  I think he's engaging.
[00:13:54]  He's interesting.
[00:13:55]  All those things.
[00:13:56]  Also, it's like the first podcast ever almost.
[00:14:01]  Pretty much.
[00:14:02]  Pretty much.
[00:14:03]  So, the point is, there is such a thing as a legacy following the rewards of simply being first.
[00:14:09]  Daily Wire was first on the scene.
[00:14:11]  Ben Shapiro is still one of the most top five podcasts in the United States as far as listenership.
[00:14:16]  Now, that doesn't necessarily reflect the influence that he's having.
[00:14:19]  You can have a very popular podcast, but people be listening to, especially people in positions of power, be listening to other people.
[00:14:26]  But practically, that legacy following 2015 to 2020, that's when they really built a team.
[00:14:31]  I mean, you guys remember Candace Owens was at the Daily Wire.
[00:14:34]  Just a year and a half ago.
[00:14:36]  It was March 2024.

=== The Rewards of Being First (15:47) ===

[00:14:37]  Crazy.
[00:14:37]  When she left.
[00:14:38]  Brett Cooper, very popular.
[00:14:39]  And she came onto the Daily Wire like only a year and a half before that.
[00:14:43]  Yep.
[00:14:43]  She had a pretty brief tenure after that.
[00:14:45]  Yeah, it didn't last too long.
[00:14:46]  She didn't last long.
[00:14:46]  And she stayed in the news too since that time.
[00:14:49]  Well, the Daily Wire, I mean, you know, Clavin and Shapiro, they were like, look, now that Jeremy's gone, that was his hire.
[00:14:55]  We are not going to have a black woman on our platform.
[00:14:58]  We are not going to.
[00:14:59]  No, that was not it.
[00:15:00]  Michael Knowles, another like, they have an all star cast.
[00:15:02]  Yeah.
[00:15:03]  But here's the tension.
[00:15:04]  Knowles is sharp.
[00:15:05]  I was about to say.
[00:15:06]  Walsh is like your blue collar, every man Catholic.
[00:15:08]  And he's awesome.
[00:15:09]  He's got, I mean, he just anything that he lacks in terms of knowledge, he makes up for in spades in terms of, I would say, twofold one, courage, and two, he really is a phenomenal communicator.
[00:15:23]  Yeah, he really is.
[00:15:25]  Knowles, though, is he's kind of your ivory tower white collar, right?
[00:15:29]  And sometimes people don't see that.
[00:15:30]  He doesn't always let on, but every now and then, you know, he'll have an episode and it's like he's quoting Catholic philosophers and things like that, you know, quoting Aristotle and Aquinas, the angelic doctor, and getting into like metaphysics and stuff.
[00:15:42]  And you're like, Kind of like Timothy Gordon.
[00:15:44]  He's a hoity-toity, you know, yeah, hoity-toity boy.
[00:15:47]  This guy went to, you know, he did some schooling.
[00:15:50]  But that's the tension that's kind of existed: you have Knowles and you have Walsh.
[00:15:54]  Right.
[00:15:54]  And they're the two Catholics.
[00:15:56]  Now, the other popular commentators: you have Benjamin Birr, Orthodox Jew, Jeremy Boring, who is very broadly just evangelical.
[00:16:02]  Right.
[00:16:02]  He's Protestant.
[00:16:03]  He's evangelical.
[00:16:04]  Very much Zionist, Judeo-Christian, normie.
[00:16:08]  Very much so.
[00:16:08]  And And Andrew Claven, who grew up a secular Jew, became an atheist, and now he calls himself kind of an Anglo-Catholic.
[00:16:13]  So he'd be Anglican without submission to.
[00:16:16]  The Catholic Church.
[00:16:17]  And so you have the two Catholic guys, and they're very clearly the most based guys at Daily Wire, Matt Walsh, especially.
[00:16:24]  Real quick, you are not, let me ask, you're not saying the difference between, you know, Claven and Walsh and Knowles is that Walsh and Knowles are papists, you know, Rome, and Claven, he's Catholic, Anglo Catholic, but not a submission to Rome.
[00:16:41]  And that's the difference.
[00:16:43]  What's the difference?
[00:16:45]  The difference is where their allegiances lie.
[00:16:47]  Where their allegiances lie, and what do you think might be informing Clavin's allegiance in a separate direction?
[00:16:55]  His ethnicity, where it comes from.
[00:16:57]  He's Jewish.
[00:16:57]  Understandably.
[00:16:59]  And I would say two one, Jewish.
[00:17:00]  You can't overlook it.
[00:17:01]  It's a thing, guys.
[00:17:02]  It's a thing.
[00:17:03]  We're not trying to be mean spirited, we're not being hateful, but we are just saying you have to account for that.
[00:17:09]  There is a reason.
[00:17:10]  So, one is okay, he's not practicing religious Jew like Shapiro is, but he is Jewish, and that influences the way that he thinks.
[00:17:18]  Secondly, he has a gay son, right?
[00:17:20]  How many non Jewish.
[00:17:22]  White as the driven snow, right?
[00:17:26]  White as the driven snow, heritage American, their last name in the Civil War registry a bajillion times, evangelical pastor.
[00:17:37]  His kids grow up, one of them turns out to be gay, and he gets soft, right?
[00:17:42]  Like that just affects a man.
[00:17:44]  It affects a man, right?
[00:17:46]  Timothy Keller, right?
[00:17:48]  Timothy Keller, remember, like, there was this one woman who was like a politician and Which is not a great start, you know, but like who was in his church for I think eight, nine, 10 years.
[00:17:58]  And after he died, people were saying certain things about, you know, abortion, you know, is murder and should be banned, abolished, you know, hashtag true.
[00:18:08]  That's yes.
[00:18:10]  Or porn should be abolished or homosexuality, right, is a sin, grave evil.
[00:18:16]  And she like was arguing and trying to make an argument from a point of authority and pointing to Tim Keller and saying, Well, I was a part of the conservatives' church.
[00:18:28]  I was a Presbyterian.
[00:18:29]  I was a Presbyterian at Tim Keller, a conservative pastor's church.
[00:18:33]  I'm like, wow, okay.
[00:18:34]  And she was like, and I was there for 10 years and I never heard him say that abortion was bad.
[00:18:41]  And that was, I mean, that was powerful because she's sitting there defending Keller, right?
[00:18:45]  And it's like, and we're like, oh, yeah, that, like, how was he able to be successful and have a large church in Manhattan?
[00:18:51]  Oh, that's right.
[00:18:53]  He never preached against sin.
[00:18:56]  Right?
[00:18:57]  Not sin, at least public known sin that would be distasteful to liberals.
[00:19:05]  And so, my point is, but that was because I think there are a number of reasons, but at least one that you could cite is well, why did Keller have this blind spot, this soft spot, this compromised area?
[00:19:20]  I think part of it is because of family.
[00:19:23]  He had a gay son, you know, or a gay brother.
[00:19:26]  Gay brother.
[00:19:26]  Gay brother.
[00:19:27]  In the case of Clavin, gay son, Spencer Clavin.
[00:19:30]  And so you look at that and it's like, okay, like they're compromised.
[00:19:34]  You look at Walsh, though, it's like, He's not Jewish.
[00:19:38]  He's Catholic.
[00:19:40]  He's got six children.
[00:19:43]  Six children.
[00:19:44]  Has been living in the woods.
[00:19:46]  His bio literally reads a theocratic fascist.
[00:19:49]  Right.
[00:19:49]  He's being a little tongue in cheek.
[00:19:50]  But started podcasting in his car.
[00:19:53]  He felt this way before.
[00:19:54]  It's not just like he signed a deal and then all of a sudden started grifting.
[00:19:57]  He was saying things like in 2010, like, ah, 16 years old is a great age for girls to marry.
[00:20:02]  I mean, this dude has been controversial for a while.
[00:20:05]  And so you have that tension there.
[00:20:07]  But here's Ben Daily Wire's kind of secret to success, honestly.
[00:20:10]  Any of their disputes, they have kept that under wraps.
[00:20:14]  You talked about the NDA that Candace Owens has when she left.
[00:20:16]  She's not even at the company.
[00:20:18]  Years have gone by, a year at this point.
[00:20:20]  She literally still can't disparage.
[00:20:22]  She can't talk badly about them.
[00:20:23]  One of the things that Daily Wire has done well is when you come in there and you get your show and you get your money and you get the friendships and you get the connections, you carry the flag.
[00:20:34]  You toe the line.
[00:20:35]  You don't disparage the team.
[00:20:38]  However, there might be cracks beginning to show.
[00:20:40]  And all this was precipitated last week.
[00:20:42]  We were busy, so we didn't get a chance to do an episode on it.
[00:20:44]  But last week, Probably one of the biggest news stories that has happened in kind of the political space, I would say, in the last couple of months.
[00:20:50]  It's been a busy year.
[00:20:51]  Big news story ever.
[00:20:53]  Ever.
[00:20:53]  All the time.
[00:20:53]  A 21 year old kid made a joke about Hitler.
[00:20:56]  I can't believe it.
[00:20:58]  When I think of things that should be national news stories.
[00:21:01]  Yes.
[00:21:02]  That's right.
[00:21:02]  That's the top.
[00:21:03]  I mean, hey, somebody shot in the neck.
[00:21:06]  Who cares?
[00:21:07]  Joke about Hitler?
[00:21:09]  Firing squad.
[00:21:10]  From a young man?
[00:21:11]  Yep.
[00:21:12]  Let's, I mean, hang him.
[00:21:13]  Yeah.
[00:21:13]  Right?
[00:21:14]  So thousands of messages were leaked.
[00:21:16]  To Politico by a New York young Republican board member, I believe, named Gavin Wax.
[00:21:20]  And Gavin leaked these messages because of a personal slight.
[00:21:23]  And the chats were very much so not politically correct.
[00:21:26]  There was a whole range of different things that people had said.
[00:21:29]  And you had two reactions to this.
[00:21:30]  There were two camps, broadly speaking.
[00:21:32]  There was one side that did the classic denouncement game We denounce these messages.
[00:21:38]  We feel that these are antithetical to our conservative values.
[00:21:43]  No conservative should ever use this language.
[00:21:45]  Guys lost offers.
[00:21:47]  To places that they were going to work.
[00:21:49]  Guys lost their jobs.
[00:21:51]  People lost their positions in Young Republicans.
[00:21:53]  Young Republicans is an affiliate group that is attached to the Republican Party for individuals, I think it's under 30.
[00:21:59]  So these are the guys that are coming up in politics, they're getting involved, they're getting invested.
[00:22:03]  And which, for the record, if anyone listening to this, you should go to your Young Republican group and take it over.
[00:22:07]  What I don't mean is go in there with the right response, you know, 2025 conference t shirt.
[00:22:11]  You should hide your power levels, go in, be involved, take over your local Young Republicans.
[00:22:17]  Yeah, don't.
[00:22:17]  That's where young conservatives are.
[00:22:19]  You want to get ahead.
[00:22:20]  You want to be successful.
[00:22:21]  You want to gain real influence and power.
[00:22:25]  Let me give you one tip do not say my name.
[00:22:29]  Joel Webbin, who's that?
[00:22:31]  Nope.
[00:22:32]  Secretly, right?
[00:22:33]  Treat me like the fat girl.
[00:22:35]  You know what I mean?
[00:22:35]  It's like a secret little obsession.
[00:22:38]  When you're in private in your car, you're listening to the podcast.
[00:22:42]  But publicly, Joel Webbin, I don't know the man.
[00:22:45]  Do what Peter did, right?
[00:22:46]  When Peter did it, it was Jesus Christ.
[00:22:48]  It was wrong.
[00:22:49]  Three denials.
[00:22:50]  In this case, I am encouraging you.
[00:22:52]  Please deny me.
[00:22:55]  Who's that guy?
[00:22:56]  The Protestant version of Matt Walsh.
[00:22:58]  Yeah.
[00:22:58]  So this blew up, and you had one side that denounced.
[00:23:00]  They said, We condemn this.
[00:23:02]  These people shouldn't have jobs.
[00:23:03]  But you had another side.
[00:23:04]  And I like to actually think this is guys on the right that are actually learning to win.
[00:23:08]  And the biggest name among them is not Matt Walsh, but the vice president of the United States.
[00:23:12]  And we have our criticisms of Vance, but he was good here.
[00:23:15]  He came out and he said, Hey, all right, so some young Republicans, that's my political party.
[00:23:19]  They said some spicy things in a group chat.
[00:23:22]  Here's the deal I don't care.
[00:23:24]  A couple of weeks ago, there was another leaked message.
[00:23:26]  So we Republicans, we had our leaked message.
[00:23:29]  There were some edgy jokes.
[00:23:30]  There was some Hitler love in there.
[00:23:31]  We had that.
[00:23:33]  Two weeks ago.
[00:23:34]  Just a sprinkle.
[00:23:34]  Just a sprinkle.
[00:23:35]  Yeah.
[00:23:36]  Two weeks ago, messages were leaked from a candidate for attorney general in Virginia, an individual named Jay Jones.
[00:23:42]  Same kind of thing, right?
[00:23:43]  Yes.
[00:23:44]  So it was just a, you know, you had a Hitler joke over here, and then over there you had a Stalin joke.
[00:23:49]  Yep.
[00:23:49]  A Pol Pot joke.
[00:23:50]  Right.
[00:23:50]  That's all.
[00:23:51]  Well, no, actually, what we had in those texts, and you can actually see some of it here on the screen, this was an individual who was texting with Jay Jones, again, the candidate for attorney general in Virginia.
[00:24:02]  Not a 21 year old frat boy.
[00:24:04]  No.
[00:24:05]  So, one, Distinction, the position, the power, the authority.
[00:24:10]  It's formal.
[00:24:11]  Okay.
[00:24:11]  Second difference here we have a joke about Hitler.
[00:24:14]  Oh, wait, no, we don't.
[00:24:15]  Can you read it?
[00:24:16]  So, this is, there's more text in this.
[00:24:18]  I'm not going to go through the whole saga because this was a couple weeks ago.
[00:24:20]  You probably saw it.
[00:24:21]  You can Google it.
[00:24:22]  But here's this individual, and they're pressing him because he's literally saying, he's like, I want, I'm wishing harm on my political opponents and their children for being Republicans.
[00:24:32]  He called them little fascists.
[00:24:33]  So, the individual texting says, You weren't trying to understand.
[00:24:36]  You were talking about hoping Jennifer Gilbert's children.
[00:24:40]  Would die.
[00:24:41]  Jay Jones responds, Yes, I've told you this before.
[00:24:44]  Only when people feel pain personally do they move on policy.
[00:24:48]  Again and again, he was pressed, and privately, he was like, I want their children dead.
[00:24:55]  I don't know.
[00:24:55]  This individual, their kids, their little fascists, they deserve to die.
[00:25:00]  Insane.
[00:25:00]  So there is no equivalency on the right.
[00:25:04]  There's not.
[00:25:05]  Certainly not with any formal political official.
[00:25:11]  Right.
[00:25:11]  So there is no high up, you know, political official or candidate running for office where you would find the equivalent.
[00:25:19]  You might find a joke.
[00:25:20]  Sure.
[00:25:21]  But you will not find two jokes.
[00:25:23]  But here's the thing on the young Republicans chat number one, it's jokes.
[00:25:27]  Is there some truth?
[00:25:29]  Do they actually think maybe Hitler wasn't a monster?
[00:25:31]  Maybe he had some good policies?
[00:25:33]  Yeah, there might be some truth.
[00:25:35]  But you would have to feign omniscience, infallibility to assume that you know that.
[00:25:42]  This is abundantly clear.
[00:25:43]  This is not a joke.
[00:25:44]  And what I'm saying is here's the difference.
[00:25:46]  You have a 21 year old frat boy.
[00:25:49]  He's not running for anything.
[00:25:52]  He's not in a position of power or a candidate, real candidate for a position of power.
[00:25:57]  So the position is different.
[00:25:59]  Second, you have what very clearly seems to be a joke rather than something that's serious.
[00:26:05]  Third, you have a joke about a historical figure from 80 years ago.
[00:26:10]  Here you have someone wishing harm.
[00:26:12]  On children, not just a political opponent, but their children who have done nothing.
[00:26:18]  They're not fascist, they're not communist, they're five.
[00:26:21]  They're five.
[00:26:22]  I want them dead.
[00:26:24]  And the last difference that has to be pointed out you have a couple jokes with no pushback.
[00:26:30]  Here you have somebody saying something that is not a joke.
[00:26:33]  And if you look at it, this is just one screenshot that we're showing you.
[00:26:37]  You can look at it, this was a lengthy conversation with pushback offered.
[00:26:43]  Like again and again and again.
[00:26:44]  Literally saying, you don't really mean this.
[00:26:47]  Please, you know, like, Mr. Frodo, you don't really mean this.
[00:26:50]  You know, you don't actually mean this.
[00:26:52]  Wait, no.
[00:26:53]  Can you clarify that?
[00:26:56]  Could you interpret this?
[00:26:57]  Could you wait?
[00:26:58]  Like a million different off ramps in this.
[00:27:02]  And the person is like, no, I literally mean, I want physical pain in this instance, that being death of my political opponent's children, because that's how we get things done.
[00:27:17]  Now, I would say this is a terrible person, but I would say more than that.
[00:27:22]  I would say this person is terrible.
[00:27:24]  They're also par for the course for the political left.
[00:27:28]  That is the left.
[00:27:30]  The left has refused to denounce us.
[00:27:32]  So, young Republicans, tons of people, tons of organizations, they came out and denounced it.
[00:27:37]  This is terrible.
[00:27:37]  All came out, clutched their pearls.
[00:27:39]  So, Jay Jones has stepped down from the race.
[00:27:42]  He's not running.
[00:27:42]  He's been denounced.
[00:27:43]  And, oh, wait, no.
[00:27:45]  Nope.
[00:27:46]  Still running, still in the race, not denounced by any, as far as I know, any leading Democrats.
[00:27:51]  They sat up, took a blind eye, and said, nope, see no evil.
[00:27:54]  He's on our team.
[00:27:55]  Hear no evil.
[00:27:56]  Speak no evil.
[00:27:56]  Yep.
[00:27:57]  He's on our team.
[00:27:58]  We will not.
[00:27:59]  Will not speak ill.
[00:28:00]  So let's go ahead and compare Ben Shapiro.
[00:28:02]  I said there's two camps the denounce, how could you?
[00:28:05]  This is unbecoming.
[00:28:06]  And then there's we don't care.
[00:28:08]  There's a couple people there kind of posting.
[00:28:09]  Some of them posted a picture of Charlie with his children.
[00:28:12]  I don't care about leaked group chats.
[00:28:13]  Irena on the train.
[00:28:15]  Yeah, I don't care about leaked group chats.
[00:28:17]  Amen.
[00:28:17]  So that's one group.
[00:28:18]  There's the denounce group.
[00:28:19]  Let's play first Ben Shapiro's take on this.
[00:28:21]  Yep.
[00:28:22]  Finally, it actually is not sufficient to publicly proclaim you're not going to condemn these people while you don't say anything about their comments and instead just project to the other side.
[00:28:34]  Because strategically, on a strategic level, this is how your party ends up being taken over by the ambulatory psychotics.
[00:28:39]  Okay, I want to look at the left because that's how it happened.
[00:28:41]  The left decided they would not, under any circumstances, condemn their own ambulatory psychotics because those people were part of their coalition and they couldn't do it or they would lose.
[00:28:51]  And you know what ended up happening?
[00:28:52]  The alligator ate them first, not last.
[00:28:55]  They ended up being taken over by the crazy wing.
[00:28:58]  Because if you lose your systemic immunity to crazy, crazy tends to be really, really, really infectious.
[00:29:05]  You lose your immunity to crazy.
[00:29:07]  Crazy tends to be really infectious.
[00:29:09]  That's the line him and others like Seth Dillon are running with.
[00:29:12]  The left let its crazies loose.
[00:29:15]  And they're crazies with transgender ideology, all these other things.
[00:29:18]  They took over the party, and that's why they're losing now.
[00:29:20]  But we're facing the exact same thing on the right.
[00:29:23]  Let's get Matt Walsh's take on that.
[00:29:25]  Yep.
[00:29:26]  And I've heard this argument that, well, the left is losing because they failed to drive out the radical elements of their party.
[00:29:32]  I think it was a false premise there, though.
[00:29:34]  I don't think that's actually happening.
[00:29:36]  Mamdani, one of the most radical political figures we've ever seen in this country, is about to be the mayor of our largest city.
[00:29:41]  Because there are no Republicans or moderates in New York, man.
[00:29:44]  I mean, Trump's been president twice, and it was the trans issue that killed Kamala Harris in the last election because they won't stop doing the trans issue, which is the most extreme element to the party, including, obviously, you know, what happened to Charlie.
[00:29:54]  But that's also another thing, too, is that when we talk about sort of the quote unquote radical elements of the right versus the radical elements of the left, these are not exactly the same thing.
[00:30:03]  The radical element of the left denies basic biological reality when you're militating against.
[00:30:10]  These basic realities that we all understand, that's not happening on the right.
[00:30:14]  There is no equivalent of that, of someone saying that men can have babies.
[00:30:18]  Like, there's just no exact equivalent of that.
[00:30:23]  I think Matt puts his finger right on it.

=== Conservatives Reject Radicalism (09:02) ===

[00:30:25]  Here's the one big difference between left and right, and I'll pass it to you.
[00:30:28]  The right, foundationally, is not a rejection of nature.
[00:30:32]  Right.
[00:30:32]  Well, you have radicals on the right and radicals on the left, and we have to reject both of them.
[00:30:36]  Well, one political ideology is literally the foundation of it is emancipation.
[00:30:41]  From every hierarchy, from every bond, from everything.
[00:30:44]  It's the disintegration of family.
[00:30:46]  It's the disintegration of work and economics.
[00:30:48]  It is flattening everything.
[00:30:50]  It's anti nature.
[00:30:51]  The right may have its radicals, but at the very least, what you can say about them, we've talked about this before hey, they are not people trying to turn men into women.
[00:31:00]  And that's a huge difference.
[00:31:02]  Even there, categorically, your radicals on the left and your supposed radicals on the right hey, here's a big difference between them.
[00:31:07]  One of them is trying to undo nature, the other one, for all their faults, at least recognize there is a natural order and a natural hierarchy in the world that's been made.
[00:31:16]  What do you think?
[00:31:18]  You might say that on the right, There's still sin, but they are sinning in the right direction.
[00:31:26]  I heard a poet say that once.
[00:31:27]  I've heard it said.
[00:31:29]  And, you know, a lot of people lost their minds, but the people that lost their minds, of course, the reason why is not because they're on the right, but because they are liberals.
[00:31:37]  At the end of the day, I think that was one of the biggest things for me.
[00:31:40]  And it really was a mercy from the Lord, just convicting me by the power of the Holy Spirit and helping me to realize Joel, you are a liberal.
[00:31:51]  You're a liberal.
[00:31:53]  The final arbiter of truth for you is not my word.
[00:31:56]  But classical liberalism.
[00:31:59]  And I think that's what you have to realize is that, well, Ben Shapiro's not a liberal.
[00:32:02]  He's a conservative.
[00:32:03]  No, he is a conservative liberal.
[00:32:06]  It's liberalism.
[00:32:08]  You're still on the plantation.
[00:32:10]  It's like just ping pong, back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, but you never can actually be liberated.
[00:32:14]  You can never break out.
[00:32:15]  It's two sides, same coin.
[00:32:18]  It's this idea of, okay, well, yeah, I take the lower taxes position, and instead of infinity immigration, we'll just have billions of immigration.
[00:32:29]  Or illegal immigration is bad, but we need even more legal immigrants.
[00:32:33]  But at the end of the day, again, it's two sides of the same coin.
[00:32:37]  Both policies are white people should be replaced.
[00:32:41]  One says it out loud, Chuck Schumer, right?
[00:32:45]  And one doesn't say it out loud, but pushes for the same kind of policies that will effectively accomplish that end.
[00:32:52]  And so with every issue, it's we would like to compromise quickly, we would like to compromise slowly.
[00:32:59]  And that's the only difference between the two.
[00:33:01]  And I think what Walsh is doing is he's getting off of the liberalism plantation, classical liberalism.
[00:33:07]  He's realizing, oh, I don't want to be a liberal.
[00:33:10]  And for that matter, I mean, it's unfortunate because I think conservative is actually a good word.
[00:33:15]  But in the year of our Lord 2025, he's realizing just like we have.
[00:33:19]  And we did a whole episode on this where we said, brothers, we are not conservatives.
[00:33:23]  And what we meant by that is because conservatism as a political ideology conserves whatever is presently the status quo.
[00:33:32]  And the reality is that we have no desire whatsoever to conserve.
[00:33:36]  The year of our Lord 2025.
[00:33:38]  It's a bad year.
[00:33:39]  It's all bad.
[00:33:41]  We reject it all.
[00:33:42]  I'm not interested in, like, you know what?
[00:33:45]  You know what?
[00:33:46]  We'll take the homos, but not transgender, right?
[00:33:50]  Or we'll take this, but not the gay furries, you know?
[00:33:53]  Like, I'm a conservative, right?
[00:33:55]  I remember, I think it was John Doyle.
[00:33:57]  I thought it was funny.
[00:33:57]  He was like, dude, 50 years from now, in the same way, it's like, well, I'm an MLK conservative, you know, Martin Luther King, right?
[00:34:06]  Like, just unapologetic heritage.
[00:34:09]  Puppet for Marxists.
[00:34:10]  Heritage.
[00:34:10]  Yeah.
[00:34:11]  Puppet for Jewish Marxists.
[00:34:13]  Psy hop, plant.
[00:34:15]  And all this is verifiable.
[00:34:17]  In the same way that, you know, 50 years later, people are like, I'm a Martin Luther King Jr. conservative.
[00:34:22]  He made the joke and said, you know, 50 years from now, we'll have people saying, I'm a George Floyd conservative.
[00:34:27]  He was rejecting fiat currency by having a counterfeit $20 bill.
[00:34:31]  You know, in his final gasping breaths, he was calling out for his mother, right?
[00:34:35]  Strong family ties and natural affection.
[00:34:37]  Like, no, like, No, there's no such thing as a George Floyd conservative.
[00:34:41]  The dude was a career criminal.
[00:34:43]  He put a gun to a woman's pregnant belly.
[00:34:46]  He overdosed on fentanyl.
[00:34:48]  That's how he died.
[00:34:50]  But that's what conservatives do.
[00:34:52]  That's my point.
[00:34:52]  Conservatives, historically speaking, not always, but at least for the last 40, 50 years now, have just been the right side of the liberalism plantation.
[00:35:07]  And I think what guys are starting to realize is like, no, we don't want any of it.
[00:35:11]  We reject it wholesale.
[00:35:13]  We don't want anything to do with liberalism.
[00:35:16]  Liberalism destroyed the country, it destroyed the West.
[00:35:20]  We're done with that.
[00:35:21]  And so.
[00:35:22]  Yeah, I think that the differences are immense.
[00:35:25]  When you look at the left and their total, you said it well, Wes, their total rejection of nature.
[00:35:31]  And on the right, you just have a partial rejection of nature.
[00:35:34]  Think about that.
[00:35:35]  That's what conservatives in 2025 would do.
[00:35:38]  They're still rejecting nature.
[00:35:39]  So they're like, well, you can't be transgender.
[00:35:43]  But you absolutely can be a woman in political positions of authority exercised over men.
[00:35:51]  You can also be a woman in the military.
[00:35:54]  Wearing a man's uniform, just, you know, maybe not the front lines of combat.
[00:35:59]  You know, she should just be, you know, directing the drones.
[00:36:03]  You know, like, what are we conserving?
[00:36:06]  That's still liberalism.
[00:36:08]  All of our forefathers would have been disgusted.
[00:36:11]  They would be like, you're putting a woman in a pantsuit to stand in the White House as the speaker and representative of our nation, you know, owning the libs, like talking down to men.
[00:36:27]  Um, exercising kingly presidential authority.
[00:36:31]  I'm speaking of Pam Bondi right now.
[00:36:33]  Um, who would have said, like, find me a quote from George Washington where he would have said, and this is true historic American values based.
[00:36:45]  No, you're gay, you're gay.
[00:36:47]  Republicans are gay, conservatives are gay.
[00:36:51]  It's all gay, it's all fake, it's all gay.
[00:36:53]  And Matt Walsh is he's awake, he is awake, and realizing.
[00:36:58]  I don't want to play this game anymore.
[00:37:00]  Ben Shapiro represents the bookmark, right?
[00:37:03]  The bookend on the right side of the losing ideology that destroyed all of Western civilization, that being 20th century classical liberalism.
[00:37:15]  We're done with that.
[00:37:16]  Matt Walsh is done with that.
[00:37:18]  He's not going to play the game anymore.
[00:37:20]  God bless him.
[00:37:21]  Yeah.
[00:37:21]  So we'll see this tension, how it plays out, because at this point, you're getting views that are so far outside, it's going to become impossible to stay under the same roof.
[00:37:30]  They launched a new show called Friendly Fire.
[00:37:32]  It's Ben Shapiro, Michael Knowles, Matt Walsh, and Andrew Clavin discussing kind of the hot topics.
[00:37:37]  So, this kind of is a replacement for Backstage.
[00:37:39]  That was kind of their all access show in the past with the four hosts.
[00:37:42]  Jeremy Boring was on that.
[00:37:44]  He's no longer CEO.
[00:37:45]  So, they have the four of them launching a new show.
[00:37:47]  And you can see different clips from that circulating where Ben is kind of going off.
[00:37:51]  He's doing his same.
[00:37:51]  Well, the left has its crazies, and they refuse to denounce them.
[00:37:54]  And that's what Gotham in the losing position now.
[00:37:56]  Then the right has to do the same thing.
[00:37:58]  And I don't want to read too much into it.
[00:38:00]  I mean, the guy's there in the presence of his boss.
[00:38:02]  You can see Matt's face, like, I don't know how much longer I can do this.
[00:38:07]  And regardless of, well, maybe his body language, this side or the other, they most definitely have come down on two different sides of a very important issue.
[00:38:16]  And it's funny, you mentioned it in the cold open, but it's worth repeating.
[00:38:19]  The topic nobody can shut up about right now is Israel.
[00:38:22]  Like, we've got to be honest.
[00:38:23]  Left, right, center, up, down, everybody is talking about Israel.
[00:38:28]  And it's very telling.
[00:38:30]  Matt Walsh and Michael Knowles, you can tell they have not said a word.
[00:38:34]  They haven't come out.
[00:38:34]  They're not like Ben Shapiro, so they're not big Bibby fans or anything like that.
[00:38:38]  But they've also refused to counter signal and distance themselves.
[00:38:42]  It's this glaring thing like, man, this is the topic everyone's talking about.
[00:38:45]  Very much so looking forward to getting Matt Walsh's take on it.
[00:38:47]  I'm sure it's in an episode here somewhere.
[00:38:50]  I'm looking.
[00:38:51]  I'm looking.
[00:38:52]  I'm going.
[00:38:52]  Catholic doctrine has a lot to say on this.
[00:38:54]  Michael Knowles, like Catholics and Jews, have had a long storied history.
[00:38:59]  Very little from him.
[00:39:00]  So we could be in the very final days.
[00:39:02]  Michael Knowles knows this.
[00:39:03]  He knows his history.
[00:39:04]  So we could be in the very final days of Matt Walsh and even Michael Knowles at Daily Wire.
[00:39:09]  And we all know they would do great.
[00:39:11]  Candace has blown up.
[00:39:14]  The Daily Wire would be, for all intents and purposes, it would be done.
[00:39:19]  It would be a one man show.
[00:39:20]  It would be Ben Shapiro, basically.
[00:39:22]  So let's talk more about No Enemies to the Right, but first we'll hit our first commercial break and be right back.
[00:39:26]  Hey, friends.

=== Distinguishing Friends From Enemies (15:33) ===

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[00:41:21]  This is Armored Republic and in a republic there is no king but Christ.
[00:41:27]  We are free craftsmen and we are honored to be your armor spread of choice.
[00:41:47]  In November 2023, a witch hunt broke out for a Christian classical school educator.
[00:41:52]  It's kind of very similar to the leaked group text, but some spicy tweets were found from an old account that he had.
[00:41:58]  And the man with his family, so the job that he used to provide for his family, he was fired from.
[00:42:04]  The witch hunt followed him to different places.
[00:42:06]  He tried to gain gainful employment, literally put food on the table for his family.
[00:42:10]  Right.
[00:42:10]  So, not just he lost his position, but then now I'm working for a manufacturer.
[00:42:15]  Yep.
[00:42:16]  Nothing in any position of authority with ministry or anything like that.
[00:42:19]  And they're going to hunt me down, follow me there.
[00:42:22]  So it's not just, oh, well, we need to protect this position, a Christian position with influence and authority.
[00:42:28]  No, it's just malice.
[00:42:30]  It's this man needs, we need to see his kids starve.
[00:42:35]  So in the midst of that dog pile, Rod Dreher, great guy, not really, he converted to Eastern Orthodoxy, I think, a little bit ago.
[00:42:43]  Abandoned his family.
[00:42:44]  I believe, yep, left his wife.
[00:42:47]  So not a great guy.
[00:42:47]  He was joining in on the dog pile, trying to get this guy fired, trying to get his life destroyed.
[00:42:52]  And Charles Haywood, in his classical sense, he said, Who cares?
[00:42:55]  No enemies to the right.
[00:42:57]  And I honestly, I can't think of any simple phrase that evokes as much disdain and ire among your James Lindsay's of the world, your Seth Dillon's of the world, than that simple little phrase, No enemies to the right.
[00:43:11]  Now, what we mean by that, what Charles Haywood means by that, he's written at length about it.
[00:43:15]  What Matt Walsh is getting at with this is he's saying, No enemies to the political right.
[00:43:21]  It's important to distinguish that what no enemies to the right does not mean.
[00:43:24]  Is that anyone on the right has free license to be immoral?
[00:43:28]  So, someone in your party has an affair.
[00:43:32]  No enemies to the right.
[00:43:33]  Can't say anything about that.
[00:43:34]  Someone abandons his family.
[00:43:36]  Oh, he's to the right.
[00:43:37]  Can't say anything about that.
[00:43:38]  No, what it means is that with our political capital, which is limited, you don't have infinite time.
[00:43:43]  You don't have infinite money.
[00:43:44]  You don't have infinite resources.
[00:43:46]  You don't have infinite people to run.
[00:43:48]  With our limited capital, in the moment we have right now, when the left is literally, you have terror cells spread out through the nation with Antifa, you have conservatives being shot in front of Large crowds of college students.
[00:44:00]  In our moment, in our time right now, with the limited political capital we have, there is not an ounce of it that needs to be spent counter signaling things on the right that you disagree with.
[00:44:11]  So, no enemies on the right does not mean we turn a blind to immorality because it's on the right.
[00:44:16]  It doesn't mean you have to agree with everybody on the right.
[00:44:19]  What it is saying is, in our moment, the greatest threat that there is.
[00:44:22]  Don't publicly and politically attack your own.
[00:44:25]  Exactly.
[00:44:25]  And for anybody who's like, well, it sounds a bit hypocritical because didn't you just do that with Ben Shapiro?
[00:44:29]  The answer is very simple.
[00:44:30]  He's not on the right.
[00:44:31]  Exactly.
[00:44:32]  Never has been, not even close.
[00:44:34]  Exactly.
[00:44:34]  And so we're not going to use any of that until the left is defeated.
[00:44:39]  And I want to give kind of an example of this rhetoric, and it sounds really pious, to be honest.
[00:44:44]  Doesn't it sound so pious to say, well, Jesus has enemies on the right, doesn't he?
[00:44:48]  We have to have enemies on the right too.
[00:44:50]  We want to be like Jesus.
[00:44:52]  Let me use a little illustration, and I'll turn it over to you before we use this case in point.
[00:44:56]  Apologia Church and Jeff Durbin out in Arizona.
[00:44:58]  A couple years ago.
[00:44:59]  Positive example.
[00:45:00]  A positive example.
[00:45:01]  They were working with a Mormon state representative to put forward a law.
[00:45:06]  That would give equal protection to infants in the womb.
[00:45:10]  So, a bill of abolition working with a state representative who was a Mormon to file and get that bill passed.
[00:45:17]  Now, Apologia and Jeff Durbin and James White have significant disagreements with Mormonism.
[00:45:23]  They do not believe they're Christians.
[00:45:24]  We don't believe that.
[00:45:25]  Absolutely.
[00:45:25]  We have those disagreements as well.
[00:45:27]  But you'll notice they recognized hey, I'm not inviting these guys in to preach in my church.
[00:45:32]  I'm not inviting them for a conference.
[00:45:34]  I'm not even having them for a debate.
[00:45:36]  There's a problem out here.
[00:45:37]  It's a theological alliance.
[00:45:39]  Exactly.
[00:45:39]  There's a problem out here that has a political solution in our state house through law, through legislation.
[00:45:46]  And so, practically, someone who is theologically an enemy on the opposite side, we don't even think as a Christian, we recognize that our agreement here means we can lock hands narrowly for this common good, namely the saving of the unborn.
[00:46:02]  So, even Apologia, Jeff Durbin, James White, they recognize hey, there's times and places where our disagreements that are real and substantial.
[00:46:11]  I mean, there is no smaller disagreement than the divinity of Jesus.
[00:46:15]  Even those in contexts where it makes sense and it's applicable to say, we're going to lay those differences aside, not forever, but for the time being to work towards this political end.
[00:46:26]  And afterwards, we can kill each other.
[00:46:27]  But they practically recognize it.
[00:46:29]  We all know this.
[00:46:31]  Let's read a tweet now from Toby Sumter.
[00:46:32]  Toby Sumter, this was just today.
[00:46:35]  Real quick, this morning.
[00:46:36]  Who's Toby Sumter?
[00:46:37]  Toby Sumter is a pastor of, it is not Christ Church, it is King's Cross Church.
[00:46:42]  In Moscow, Idaho.
[00:46:43]  Right.
[00:46:43]  So he was the associate pastor for Doug Wilson, right hand guy for Doug Wilson with Christ Church in Moscow, Idaho for many years.
[00:46:51]  And Toby and Doug have done a lot of faithful ministry, of which we're grateful for.
[00:46:58]  And then he set out and planted a church still in the same area in Moscow, Idaho, but very much still a right hand man for Doug Wilson.
[00:47:06]  Yes.
[00:47:07]  So Toby Sumter, fresh this morning, fresh off a pot of coffee, he said this Conservatives do need to learn to work together.
[00:47:13]  But as Douglas Wilson has said, There are two problems with no enemies to the right.
[00:47:18]  One, that depends entirely on whether God has enemies to the right.
[00:47:22]  And two, it's dumb because it just tells the devil which flank you won't defend.
[00:47:28]  So let me take it from here.
[00:47:30]  Take it.
[00:47:30]  Okay.
[00:47:31]  First, it is imperative that you recognize that Doug Wilson has done some good things in the promise of God for which we should be respectful and grateful for.
[00:47:39]  Number two, it is imperative that you understand that Doug Wilson is to the left of our vice president.
[00:47:46]  JD Vance, whose son's name is Vivek, who has pictures with himself with a red dot on the forehead in Indian Hindu garb, who is in the pocket of a gay man, partnered with a Jewish man, talking about Peter Thiel and Alex Karp and Palantir and facial recognition, the tech right bros who want infinity immigration with H1 visas.
[00:48:12]  That JD Vance, who has done some good things that I'm grateful for.
[00:48:17]  But he is not by any stretch of the imagination a far right bastion of conservatism.
[00:48:26]  I don't think he is.
[00:48:27]  I don't think he is.
[00:48:28]  So, JD Vance, with all the things that I just mentioned, I would argue in many ways is to our left, demonstrably to our left.
[00:48:40]  Doug Wilson is to his left.
[00:48:43]  Because when this happened with the young Republicans and the chat leak, JD Vance, God bless him.
[00:48:51]  He immediately came out and he showed that screenshot that we showed earlier from this political candidate on the left saying, Uh uh, I'm not going to get upset about some kid, young adult,
[00:49:07]  making spicy jokes about Hitler when we have political candidates for serious public positions on the left, not just making jokes, but insisting after being asked to clarify multiple times, insisting, I wish Hitler.
[00:49:24]  Physical harm and death on my political opponents and their kids.
[00:49:30]  JD Vance, that was his take.
[00:49:33]  Pretty good take.
[00:49:34]  Yeah.
[00:49:35]  Got to give him credit.
[00:49:36]  God bless him.
[00:49:36]  Pretty good take.
[00:49:38]  Which his son wasn't named Vivek, but pretty good take.
[00:49:42]  And you just have to see this.
[00:49:43]  You have to see this.
[00:49:45]  I appreciate Doug Wilson, but you have to see that is about, I would say, a thousand miles to the right of Pastor Doug Wilson.
[00:49:56]  Our vice president, our Catholic vice president with a Hindu wife, is demonstrably, definitively, objectively to the right of Doug Wilson.
[00:50:09]  Hmm.
[00:50:10]  Because Doug Wilson's take is not, hey, this isn't a big deal.
[00:50:16]  This other thing is a way bigger deal.
[00:50:18]  And I'm going to shine the light on our real objective political opponents on the left and not waste capital in shooting our own, especially when our own happens to be 20 year old frat boys making jokes about Hitler.
[00:50:34]  No, Doug Wilson is not able to exercise that kind of wisdom and insight and tactical political strategy as our vice president with a Hindu wife.
[00:50:46]  How do I know this?
[00:50:47]  Well, I know this because his right hand man came out and posted the tweet that Wes just showed you.
[00:50:55]  It represents, quotes, Doug Wilson and his view.
[00:50:58]  I also know it firsthand from personal experience, not just recently with a young Republican leak, but in my own life about a year and a half ago when it happened to me.
[00:51:09]  He tweeted after JD Vance, just to add one more piece of data.
[00:51:12]  He said, The reason I don't care about a leak group chat, this is Doug Wilson leak, is it's a great way to identify people.
[00:51:18]  So, his right hand man and a ton of people in the comments said, What do you mean by that?
[00:51:23]  Yeah.
[00:51:23]  Like, do you mean identify people like identify the neocons who are clutching their pearls and feigning disgust and shock and awe?
[00:51:32]  No, I don't think that's what he means.
[00:51:34]  And this isn't imputing motives, this is from precedence, right?
[00:51:38]  What we should assume, what you must assume Doug Wilson means by that tweet.
[00:51:43]  The reason I'm not upset about the leak from this young Republican group chat is because it lets me identify the bad guys, right?
[00:51:52]  The reason why you should assume he's not talking about the bad guys, meaning the people who come out and denounce it and clutch their pearls, but rather the bad guys being those young men in the chat themselves.
[00:52:03]  The reason you should assume that that is his meaning is because that is what he has done himself.
[00:52:10]  A year and a half ago, I try not to bring this up.
[00:52:12]  We haven't talked about it much since, okay?
[00:52:15]  But it is directly correlated to the Young Republican group chat and the leak that just happened, which is now national news.
[00:52:21]  So it is highly relevant and pertinent for this conversation.
[00:52:26]  A year and a half ago, we had an individual who was a member in our church and is still, by God's grace, a member in good standing in our church who I love and respect.
[00:52:37]  He loves the Lord.
[00:52:38]  He's a good husband, good father, good Christian man.
[00:52:43]  This individual was getting J-pilled and starting to do some of the reading, which led to a little bit of noticing, right?
[00:52:51]  If you give a mouse a cookie, you ask for a glass of milk, right?
[00:52:54]  If you read a little bit of World War II history, Or a little bit of general patent, you know, you start to notice a few things.
[00:53:01]  And this is a German man who lives in our church, lives in America on a green card.
[00:53:07]  His wife is American, but, you know, he's born and raised in Germany.
[00:53:13]  And so as he's going through this journey of kind of doing the reading and kind of looking into some revisionist World War II history, as a German man who would like to exonerate as much as he can.
[00:53:30]  Not stretching the truth, not exercising falsehoods, but as much as he can truthfully, he would like to exonerate his forefathers, his German forefathers.
[00:53:41]  And so he texted.
[00:53:43]  He did not tweet, it was not public, just like the young Republicans.
[00:53:46]  This is a private group chat.
[00:53:48]  Well, in this case, he texted just him and one other person his former pastor, German pastor, who he was a member of that church for eight years.
[00:53:58]  This was not just his pastor, this was his friend.
[00:54:00]  And he's going on this journey, reading about World War II history, reading about his own forefathers, his own people.
[00:54:07]  What were their motives?
[00:54:08]  What was really going on?
[00:54:09]  Where did they really sin?
[00:54:11]  Where have I been lied to through propaganda and this, that, and the other?
[00:54:15]  And he is texting back and forth with his former German pastor.
[00:54:20]  And at one point, he sends him a spicy meme, right?
[00:54:24]  And the meme was a classic, like Rockefeller kind of painting that's.
[00:54:31]  A woman, you know, who's a mom, she's leaning over, getting something out of the oven, and her daughter, little girl, sitting at the kitchen table.
[00:54:38]  And the girl asks, Mom, what was the Holocaust?
[00:54:41]  And she responds by saying, Well, the Holocaust was the one time in history that Jews had to do manual labor, and so therefore they claimed that it killed them.
[00:54:49]  It's a joke.
[00:54:51]  It's a joke.
[00:54:52]  And he texts that to his friend of eight years and former pastor in confidence, privately, between two people.

=== When Pastors Share Spicy Memes (04:02) ===

[00:55:00]  Well, that meme is shared by his pastor with Doug Wilson.
[00:55:04]  And with James White.
[00:55:06]  And both of those Reformed Christian ministers start to talk about it publicly.
[00:55:13]  They don't name, but they talk in detail about the instance.
[00:55:18]  Doug through a blog, sharing the picture of the meme.
[00:55:21]  This is happening with a member, a member of a Reformed church, shared this, right?
[00:55:27]  James White starts talking about it on the podcast.
[00:55:31]  So, my point is what Toby tweeted.
[00:55:37]  Is not just something that he heard the principle from his mentor, spiritual mentor, Doug Wilson.
[00:55:43]  He didn't just hear the principle, he saw the principle modeled.
[00:55:48]  He saw the principle modeled by Doug Wilson and by James White with the sights lasered in on me, my ministry, my church, and my member who I love.
[00:56:02]  And I stood up and I didn't back down.
[00:56:07]  We broke fellowship over it.
[00:56:09]  No more public partnering between us and Moscow or us and Apologia for that matter, even though we still speak positively when we can, like the example that Wes just shared about Apologia partnering with Mormons, not theologically, but politically when it comes to abolishing abortion.
[00:56:28]  So, all that being said, sadly, Doug Wilson and his principle of, well, of course there are enemies on the right because the question is, does God have enemies on the right?
[00:56:39]  But here's the deal.
[00:56:42]  God has used by his providence, we see this in scripture, we've seen this throughout church history.
[00:56:47]  God has used multiple people who were sinful characters that had problems.
[00:56:52]  Samson was unruly, low impulse control on that guy, right?
[00:56:58]  Not a lot of self discipline, not a lot of self control.
[00:57:02]  God used him mightily.
[00:57:05]  It would not have behooved the Israelites to counter Samson, who God is using as an instrument for the liberation and salvation of those people.
[00:57:17]  Right?
[00:57:17]  So the question is not, you know, Doug would phrase it as like, well, does God have enemies on the right?
[00:57:24]  That's not the question.
[00:57:25]  The question should be, is there sin on the right?
[00:57:28]  And the answer is yes, there's sin on the right, the left, and the center.
[00:57:32]  No man attains to a state of sinless perfection in this life.
[00:57:37]  We know that.
[00:57:38]  1 John teaches us when we see him, that being Christ, we shall be like him, for we will see him as he is, meaning his sinlessness.
[00:57:47]  In heaven, it is not only that the penalty of sin has been paid and the power of sin has been broken, but in heaven, in the life to come, even the presence of sin will be no more until the life to come.
[00:58:01]  Until our heavenly eternal existence with the triune God, sin in its presence, even for the Christian, will always remain.
[00:58:11]  In this life, you are a sinner saved by grace, a saint on the one hand, yes and amen, and a sinner on the other.
[00:58:18]  It is a dual reality, a dual identity.
[00:58:22]  Both these things simultaneously true, neither in contradiction to the other.
[00:58:26]  There is sin on the right.
[00:58:30]  So then, how do we deal with sin?
[00:58:32]  Well, we deal with sin in the context where the sin occurs.
[00:58:37]  So if somebody privately texts you, then you privately correct them if you think it's actually sin, right?
[00:58:45]  And there's a whole debate to be had in the case of this member of my church and this meme as a joke, right?
[00:58:52]  And the counter from Moscow and from James White and others was yeah, well, he's mocking the victims of atrocious crimes committed against the Jews.

=== Mocking Victims vs. Narratives (02:52) ===

[00:59:03]  Well, that's actually not what he was doing.
[00:59:06]  Right?
[00:59:06]  Putting objective historical realities aside for a moment.
[00:59:11]  In the mind of my member, he was not mocking real objective victims of atrocities.
[00:59:17]  He was mocking a historical narrative that he doesn't believe in.
[00:59:22]  So even if it is true, in his mind, it's not or greatly embellished.
[00:59:29]  And so he's mocking propaganda in his mind.
[00:59:33]  He's mocking a narrative, a narrative, not people.
[00:59:38]  He's not saying, I know the Holocaust happened.
[00:59:40]  I know that people were unjustly treated and many of them murdered, and I am mocking victims.
[00:59:49]  That thought never crossed his mind.
[00:59:52]  I talked to him at length about it.
[00:59:53]  Never crossed his mind.
[00:59:55]  It's not what he was thinking at all.
[00:59:57]  He was sharing a meme in confidence between two people, not tweeting it, texting it with his former pastor of eight years with relationship and context and friendship, mocking a historical event tongue in cheek through the avenue of humor.
[01:00:13]  All this is so clear, so obvious, and it was publicized.
[01:00:17]  It was publicized by Reformed Christian ministers, which again, you have to understand this, squarely places those men well to the left of our current vice president with a Hindu wife.
[01:00:35]  That's where we are in the Reformed world right now.
[01:00:38]  Them's the facts.
[01:00:40]  How's the Reformed world doing right now?
[01:00:42]  Chat, are we back?
[01:00:43]  Hashtag based.
[01:00:45]  Nope, we are not back.
[01:00:48]  We are not back.
[01:00:49]  The most conservative, well known, notorious ministers within the reformed world.
[01:00:57]  Don't get me started on the SBC, the PCA.
[01:01:01]  My goodness.
[01:01:03]  It's just not even worth mentioning.
[01:01:06]  We're talking about the based denomination and its leaders, the CREC.
[01:01:12]  To the left, by a mile, of the vice president whose son's name is Vivek.
[01:01:21]  That's where we are.
[01:01:23]  That's where we are.
[01:01:24]  Back to you.
[01:01:24]  That was really good.
[01:01:27]  And nothing about No Enemies to the Right, like you said, precludes private confrontation, precludes church discipline.
[01:01:33]  This is what Stephen Wolfe did so well in his book.
[01:01:36]  Hey, the category of politics is not the category of the church, it is not the category of theology.
[01:01:41]  There is a distinct realm of politics, not governed by a different morality, as if things that are immoral in the church are suddenly moral in politics.
[01:01:49]  But there are different strategies and practical implications and contexts that are just different than theology.

=== Secure Your Retirement With Gold (03:30) ===

[01:01:55]  And when you recognize that, that's when you're able to say, like the Mormons, hey, actually, this makes sense.
[01:02:01]  And it's sadly what people were unable to do.
[01:02:03]  They took, it's just gross how they took something private and said, I'm going to politicize it.
[01:02:08]  That was one of the questions.
[01:02:09]  Like, this feels political.
[01:02:10]  And it's like, it very much so is.
[01:02:12]  And they took a political context and then said, instead of in the political context, understanding we share a lot of the same goals, I'm going to turn around, pull the rack back on my AR 15, and let loose.
[01:02:24]  We have a lot of super chats.
[01:02:25]  So we'll go to our second commercial break and we'll be back to round it out.
[01:02:29]  All right.
[01:02:30]  The silver is mine and the gold.
[01:02:33]  Is mine, declares the Lord of Hosts.
[01:02:36]  Yet your retirement dollars keep shrinking daily as Washington prints money out of thin air.
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=== Embracing Distinctions Between Peoples (15:09) ===

[01:05:26]  Again, that's six one five seven six seven two five five five.
[01:05:32]  Or you can find him by going to backwards planning financial dot in M dot com.
[01:05:40]  Again, that's backwards planning financial dot in as in Nancy, M as in Ministries dot com.
[01:05:52]  All right, let's do it.
[01:05:53]  So, Joel, you want to go ahead and take this first one from this dude, Rocks?
[01:05:57]  Sure.
[01:05:58]  Let's go to the top, guys.
[01:06:00]  Remember during the commercial break when I was shouting to the top?
[01:06:03]  Okay.
[01:06:04]  So, the first one is Sea Runner 1277.
[01:06:08]  He said, Lord, protect these Texans.
[01:06:10]  Amen.
[01:06:11]  It's a bit self serving if I do say so myself, but these two men must be protected at all costs.
[01:06:18]  All right.
[01:06:19]  Number two, Alex Daniel.
[01:06:21]  He said, Christless conservative commentators will keep the country liberal.
[01:06:27]  So true, King.
[01:06:27]  So true, King.
[01:06:28]  All right.
[01:06:29]  This dude rocks.
[01:06:30]  He gave us five bucks and he gave a question.
[01:06:32]  He said, You often mention two different things race realism on the one hand and racial determinism on the other.
[01:06:40]  What is the biblical response to racial determinist individuals that seem to harbor real contempt?
[01:06:47]  All right.
[01:06:47]  I'll do my best to break it down.
[01:06:49]  First, what are those two terms?
[01:06:52]  When I say racial determinism, what I mean is those who are Of the persuasion, right, that things can fluctuate within respect, right, within degree, but that the disparities due to certain distinctions among different races are relatively fixed.
[01:07:09]  So a racial determinist would be someone who would say, if Jesus comes back next Thursday, or if in the providence of God he tarries for another 10,000 years.
[01:07:18]  In either case, regardless of the timing of the final physical return of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, Europeans.
[01:07:29]  Will probably stay ahead in terms of development, innovation, civilization, these things from, for instance, sub Saharan Africans.
[01:07:38]  That would be a racial determinist, right?
[01:07:40]  He would say, you know, I think the sub Saharan Africans, if they embrace Christ and they're evangelized and catechized and perhaps have some help, Europeans, like we've done historically, whether it was, you know, setting up a shop in India, you know, or in certain African countries, we can give.
[01:07:59]  Aid, we can be generous, we can be kind, we certainly should share the gospel when it comes to global missions and these kinds of things.
[01:08:06]  And with that aid, with that help, especially on the religious side of the equation, the spiritual Christian help, but then also when it comes to civilization and engineering and medicine and these kinds of things, I do believe that sub Saharan African nations can be lifted, relatively speaking, out of poverty.
[01:08:25]  There can be real visible signs of improvement, but I don't think necessarily that the Sudan.
[01:08:33]  Is going to become a global superpower that ultimately topples the West.
[01:08:40]  So I think that that position, the first thing I want to say is that is not a heretical position.
[01:08:46]  It's not, right?
[01:08:47]  I mean, the whole title of the episode is No Enemies to the Right.
[01:08:51]  And I'm going to exercise that principle here.
[01:08:53]  I'm not going to be a hypocrite.
[01:08:57]  That is a position that I personally don't hold.
[01:09:00]  Here's the deal, though, right?
[01:09:02]  Crazy, crazy concept.
[01:09:04]  But I'm going to throw it out there.
[01:09:05]  It's going to shock some of you guys.
[01:09:07]  I disagree with that position, and I could be wrong.
[01:09:15]  Said no reformed minister ever, right?
[01:09:16]  But I'll say it again because I know it probably just went right over your head.
[01:09:20]  You've never heard a reformed pastor use those words, you know.
[01:09:25]  But I could be wrong.
[01:09:27]  So that's the first possibility maybe I'm just wrong.
[01:09:32]  Second, let's assume I'm right.
[01:09:34]  Okay.
[01:09:34]  So I would be a race realist, right?
[01:09:37]  That I recognize race as a legitimate category that God providentially built into nature, right?
[01:09:45]  Just like there's sex as a category.
[01:09:48]  Now, I think the category of sex, male and female, Is more explicit, certainly more explicit in scripture.
[01:09:55]  And I also think that that's a deeper divide.
[01:09:57]  I think it's a greater natural distinction.
[01:10:01]  And if we're working off of the regular principle in terms of our hermeneutic and reading the scripture, that one's right there, right there.
[01:10:09]  The Bible's very clear male and female, he made them.
[01:10:13]  Okay.
[01:10:14]  But I would put in the same category, not the same tier, not the same degree, but in the same category as a natural distinction.
[01:10:22]  That God Himself had His hand in orchestrating, it's God's plan that there are differences between nations and peoples.
[01:10:29]  In the same way that I believe individuals differ, right?
[01:10:33]  It's not just fungible widgets, right?
[01:10:36]  Replaceable, you know, movable cogs in a machine.
[01:10:40]  No, I believe that individuals are different.
[01:10:42]  In the same way that some individuals are smarter than me and some individuals are dumber than me.
[01:10:48]  In the same way that there are distinctions and differences between people, I believe there are distinctions and differences between peoples.
[01:10:57]  Differences between people, the individual.
[01:11:00]  Differences between peoples, nations, or race.
[01:11:05]  Okay?
[01:11:06]  That said, for me, not being a racial determinist, I believe that things can change, and not just in small ways, but in relatively significant ways, albeit, here's the caveat, slowly across multiple consecutive generations, implying centuries, not 15 minutes, centuries.
[01:11:30]  Throughout this gospel age.
[01:11:32]  So, if the West continues to apostatize against the Lord Jesus Christ and embrace a full frontal assault against not just God, but nature and the natural world that He has made, embracing transgenderism, embracing more and more egalitarianism, embracing gay furries, embracing abortion, it's just a clump of cells, and up is down, and down is up.
[01:11:57]  The grass is blue, the sky is green.
[01:12:01]  Then, yes, I think not in 15 minutes.
[01:12:04]  Right?
[01:12:04]  The prodigal son, he got a big inheritance.
[01:12:08]  Dad was rich.
[01:12:09]  He spent all of it, but he didn't spend it all in one day.
[01:12:13]  It takes time.
[01:12:14]  When faithfulness over generations accrues the blessing of God, capital, and the capital is large, then the capital, if it is to be spent, squandered, wasted, in the same way that it took time to acquire it, it takes time to lose it.
[01:12:30]  So I would say that the West, in many ways, has apostatized against the Lord Jesus Christ.
[01:12:35]  But from King Alfred, All the way up until I would argue the mid 1800s, even early 19th century, 1920s, 1930s, for about a millennia, the West sin, still sin, always sin, like what I said earlier, right?
[01:12:50]  Still sin, the presence of sin.
[01:12:53]  But in the macro 30,000 foot view, faithfulness and obedience to the Lord Jesus Christ at a political level, national level, cultural level, societal level, and individual spiritual level.
[01:13:05]  A millennia of faithfulness to Christ.
[01:13:08]  And the blessings that accrued will not be depleted in one generation.
[01:13:14]  However, we are depleting them quickly, quickly.
[01:13:18]  And I do think that it takes longer to make a window than it takes to break it.
[01:13:24]  So I do think that we could do it relatively quickly.
[01:13:26]  But even then, if you accrue blessings for a thousand years, you're probably not going to squander them in 10.
[01:13:30]  Maybe you squander them in 200 years, right?
[01:13:34]  It's going to still take at least a little while.
[01:13:37]  If we apostatize, continue down that path, the number of Christians in the West gets fewer and fewer and fewer, both through unbelief and through.
[01:13:46]  Mass immigration, right?
[01:13:48]  Replacing heritage Americans, of which not all, but many are Christian, with a bunch of people from foreign nations who worship sand demons.
[01:13:57]  Then eventually, I believe, as we continue to apostatize, sin, Proverbs, gives us multiple correlations.
[01:14:04]  With wisdom, it's always two peas in a pod humility.
[01:14:09]  Wisdom and humility always seem to come in a pair in the Proverbs.
[01:14:13]  Here's another pair sin and stupidity.
[01:14:17]  That guy's really sharp.
[01:14:20]  But he's also really sinful.
[01:14:22]  Nope.
[01:14:24]  That guy is really sinful.
[01:14:26]  And as he has embraced sin, it has actually warped his mind.
[01:14:31]  He's abandoned reason.
[01:14:33]  He's lost his ability.
[01:14:36]  By rejecting Christ, the Logos, the logic, the Word.
[01:14:39]  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
[01:14:42]  In rejecting Christ, the logic, the Logos, he has lost his ever loving mind.
[01:14:47]  He's literally become stupid.
[01:14:49]  What do we say about the left all the time?
[01:14:51]  It's not just that they're wicked.
[01:14:52]  We're like, good, good grief.
[01:14:53]  These people are retarded.
[01:14:55]  They're dumb.
[01:14:56]  How could they possibly think that a boy could be a girl and a girl could be a boy and all these other things?
[01:15:01]  Sin makes you stupid.
[01:15:03]  So, if the West continues to embrace sin, rebelling against the Lord Jesus Christ, apostatizing against him, not just for one generation, but multiple subsequent generations over centuries, I do believe that we will become more foolish.
[01:15:17]  This is why people don't like it.
[01:15:18]  They're going to say, oh, rare Joel Webb and L.
[01:15:21]  Well, then I'm just going to have to rack up the L.
[01:15:23]  But I think some of you will get what I'm saying.
[01:15:25]  You'll get the principle, even if you disagree with my case study.
[01:15:28]  You'll get the principle and you'll agree with that.
[01:15:30]  I think we did go to the moon.
[01:15:32]  I think we did.
[01:15:33]  Right?
[01:15:35]  And I think that the reason why we lost the ability to do it again is because of the Hart Seller Act, Civil Rights Act, all these things.
[01:15:45]  I don't think it's a coincidence.
[01:15:46]  Happened at the same time.
[01:15:47]  Whitey's on the moon.
[01:15:49]  Well, now it's been 60 years where Whitey is not on the moon.
[01:15:52]  And why?
[01:15:54]  Because Whitey embraced toxic empathy for everyone who is not white.
[01:16:01]  And instead of continuing to develop innovation and technology and pursuing the stars and manifest destiny and all these kinds of things, we embraced white guilt, decided to give all of our tax money to welfare, embraced social justice campaigns, decided, you know, well, if we do have a NASA, we need a bunch of DEI hires.
[01:16:23]  And oh, wow, it wasn't just wicked policies, it wasn't just that we embraced immorality, we also got dumber.
[01:16:32]  We literally had a certain objective scientific advancement and lost it.
[01:16:39]  So I'm just saying that principle, there's the case study.
[01:16:41]  Some of you guys, you say, it's a rare Webinelle.
[01:16:45]  He thinks that we went to the moon.
[01:16:46]  Okay, still, the principle, the concept, right?
[01:16:49]  You could fill in another example if you don't like the one I offered.
[01:16:52]  But the concept is societies can actually regress, and not just morally, but they can regress in terms of innovation, technology, intelligence, right?
[01:17:02]  That's possible.
[01:17:03]  Sin, stupidity.
[01:17:04]  Two peas in a pot.
[01:17:05]  Wisdom, humility, two peas in a pot.
[01:17:08]  If that happened with the West, and simultaneously in the mercy and providence and grace of God, the opposite happened somewhere else.
[01:17:16]  People are embracing Christ, applying all of Christ to all of life, right?
[01:17:20]  They're applying the scripture, not just with church on the Lord's day, but to society and to legislation and law and all these kinds of things.
[01:17:29]  And not in 15 minutes, but over time, I think that God could shuffle the deck.
[01:17:34]  So, race, I think, is real.
[01:17:36]  I think there are undeniable distinctions.
[01:17:38]  Distinctions necessarily create certain disparities, at least in different arenas and categories.
[01:17:46]  And yet, I think in the province of God, albeit slowly over time, the deck could shuffle.
[01:17:51]  So, I'm not a racial determinist in that sense.
[01:17:53]  Guys who are, back to the question the last part is about harboring animosity, hatred.
[01:18:00]  I think that you can be a racial determinist, number one, and you could be right and I could be wrong.
[01:18:04]  Right?
[01:18:05]  Because in order to prove that I'm right, we need, you know.
[01:18:07]  To lock ourselves, you know, like a freeze ourselves, like a Han Solo situation, and let a thousand years go by and see what happens.
[01:18:14]  So, there's really no way to prove that Joel's right or that Joel's wrong.
[01:18:19]  But let's say, number one, I could be wrong and the racial determinist could be right.
[01:18:22]  Number two, let's say that I'm right and the racial determinist is wrong.
[01:18:26]  And he's actually putting too much stock in race and not enough credit in the province of God, his mercy, his revelation, and the way that it could affect people in a full orbed way over time.
[01:18:40]  Even if he's wrong, In that position, there's nothing inherently there that implies hatred.
[01:18:47]  You could be a race realist, as I am, and be hateful.
[01:18:52]  You could be a racial determinist and be hateful.
[01:18:55]  Likewise, you could be a race realist, as I am, and not be hateful, as I am not hateful.
[01:19:01]  And I believe that you could be a racial determinist, taking a little bit of a harder stance that would be, you know, a little bit to my right and not be hateful and say, I don't ever think the sub Saharans, even if Jesus tarries a thousand years or 10,000 years and all the things happen that Joel just described, The West apostatizing, them embracing Christ, all of Christ for all of life, even over the course of 10,000 years, I think that the pie is relatively fixed.
[01:19:26]  And I don't think that the sub Saharan Africans are going to best those of European descent when it comes to space exploration.
[01:19:35]  You could hold that view.
[01:19:37]  That is not heresy.
[01:19:39]  It could be wrong, but that is not primary doctrine.
[01:19:42]  It's not top tier when it comes to theological triage.
[01:19:44]  So, number one, we should not, heretic is a big word, serious, it's weighty.
[01:19:50]  We don't throw that around and accuse people of heresy nonchalant, loosey goosey.
[01:19:55]  So, number one, you cannot say that that person is a heretic.
[01:19:58]  You can say, I disagree and I think they're wrong and I think there are significant implications for being wrong on this issue.
[01:20:04]  I think it matters, I think it's significant.
[01:20:06]  Can't call them a heretic.
[01:20:08]  Find something else in their doctrine that is heretical, okay, but not that.
[01:20:11]  So, number one, that doesn't make them a heretic.
[01:20:14]  Number two, from that position alone, you cannot insinuate that the person is hateful.
[01:20:23]  So, that person, number one, if they're wrong, it's not heresy.
[01:20:29]  And number two, if they hold that racial determinist view, it does not necessarily mean that they are hateful.

=== Race Realism Versus Determinism (04:38) ===

[01:20:35]  So, all that being said, long answer, but that's how I would bifurcate race realism versus racial determinism.
[01:20:44]  The question kind of for a second, kind of tapped into race essentialism and all that would be the way that I would define that is those who make race, not just essential is a good word, but they make it top tier.
[01:20:58]  The biggest thing, right, before even looking at someone's faith, looking at religion, looking at this, looking at that, the biggest thing is what race are you?
[01:21:07]  The race is essential.
[01:21:11]  It's predominant, right?
[01:21:13]  It's the top category.
[01:21:16]  So I'm not a racial essentialist.
[01:21:18]  I'm not a race essentialist.
[01:21:20]  I think it matters.
[01:21:21]  I think it's real.
[01:21:22]  I don't think it's top.
[01:21:23]  I don't think it's predominant.
[01:21:25]  I'm also not a racial determinist.
[01:21:27]  I don't think that the pie is fixed.
[01:21:29]  I think that God can change things, but not in 15 minutes, which is why we don't need to import a bunch of Haitians and think that they could just assimilate and be Christian Americans within three or four weeks.
[01:21:39]  That is retarded.
[01:21:40]  Okay, so I'm not a racial determinist, and I'm not a race essentialist.
[01:21:45]  I am a race realist.
[01:21:46]  But for those who are a racial determinist, you could be a racial determinist and not a race essentialist, meaning you still think Christ, Christianity, is preeminent.
[01:21:58]  That matters most.
[01:21:59]  And race is not essential, but it's significant and it matters, but it is relatively fixed.
[01:22:05]  So, not a race essentialist, but you are a racial determinist.
[01:22:08]  You could hold that view and you could be wrong, but not wrong at the top tier of theological triage in terms of heresy and not necessarily wrong in the moral sense of harboring hatred.
[01:22:20]  That would be my answer.
[01:22:22]  Yeah.
[01:22:22]  I think he got the best $5 worth just about any super chatter has ever gotten.
[01:22:26]  My goodness.
[01:22:27]  That was it, dude.
[01:22:28]  You got a steal of a deal.
[01:22:30]  $5.
[01:22:30]  My goodness.
[01:22:31]  For that.
[01:22:31]  Yeah.
[01:22:32]  You're right.
[01:22:32]  Hooked.
[01:22:33]  Swinters07 sent a $10 super chat.
[01:22:35]  Thank you very much.
[01:22:36]  How does your democracy quote go again regarding democracy for the retarded?
[01:22:40]  He puts a restarted here, maybe to actually get the comment through, but democracy for the retarded.
[01:22:45]  And what was the original context for it?
[01:22:47]  Always enjoy the episodes.
[01:22:48]  Thanks.
[01:22:49]  Democracy.
[01:22:50]  So the original quote is by the people.
[01:22:52]  This was a Muslim Imam, I believe.
[01:22:55]  Really?
[01:22:55]  Yeah.
[01:22:55]  Oh, I think it was.
[01:22:56]  He's wrapped it like Haji style.
[01:22:58]  He's got the turban and everything.
[01:22:59]  So the original quote is democracy.
[01:23:01]  It's by the people, of the people, for the people.
[01:23:03]  Right.
[01:23:04]  Democracy, Demos, the crowd rules.
[01:23:06]  And he quotes that and he says, but the people are retarded.
[01:23:10]  Democracy is.
[01:23:12]  Do you want to do it?
[01:23:12]  Yes.
[01:23:12]  He was like, so.
[01:23:13]  And he says it so slow, dude.
[01:23:15]  It's hilarious.
[01:23:16]  It's like, so democracy is for the retarded, of the retarded, and by the retarded.
[01:23:23]  To which that is a rare Imam W. Credit where credit is due.
[01:23:28]  Credit where credit's due, right?
[01:23:29]  It's not often that we're going to say, hey, you know what?
[01:23:31]  This Muslim leader, you know, he nailed it.
[01:23:34]  He nailed it.
[01:23:34]  He crushed it.
[01:23:35]  But in that case, he did.
[01:23:36]  Yeah.
[01:23:37]  So that's the quote.
[01:23:38]  That's the context.
[01:23:39]  Daniel Bartos sent $10 as well.
[01:23:41]  Thank you, Daniel.
[01:23:42]  Small thank you for the reading recommendation of Death of the West.
[01:23:45]  Only three fourths through, which is that's impressive.
[01:23:48]  That's Buchanan, right?
[01:23:48]  That's Buchanan.
[01:23:49]  But talk about a man seeing the sign of the times and the writing on the wall in 2002.
[01:23:54]  Amazing.
[01:23:54]  Like 2022?
[01:23:55]  No, no.
[01:23:56]  2002.
[01:23:57]  Amazing.
[01:23:58]  Yep.
[01:23:58]  Great book to read if you have not read it.
[01:24:00]  What happened to him?
[01:24:01]  Why was he sent off and disgraced from the public platform?
[01:24:05]  Oh, he was called an anti Semitic.
[01:24:06]  Yeah, he was anti Semitic.
[01:24:07]  You can't be that.
[01:24:08]  Right.
[01:24:08]  He was called an anti Semitic.
[01:24:09]  And the people who accused him, one of his chief political opponents being Buckley, was interviewed later in life.
[01:24:16]  And they asked him point blank Do you really think that Pat Buchanan was anti Semitic?
[01:24:19]  And do you know what he said?
[01:24:20]  He said, Nah.
[01:24:23]  One of the things in all of.
[01:24:24]  Why did you do it?
[01:24:26]  Just wanted to beat him.
[01:24:27]  Yeah.
[01:24:27]  Blind him into dust.
[01:24:29]  Yeah.
[01:24:30]  One of the things that gives me encouragement with everything we talk about there's men way smarter than the both of us combined decades ago who saw the same thing.
[01:24:38]  Hey, immigration is destructive to the fabric of American life.
[01:24:42]  That's so encouraging.
[01:24:43]  And it honestly should be a consolation and comfort to you, the listener.
[01:24:46]  Yeah.
[01:24:47]  We are not sitting here flying by the seat of our pants, pulling our views out of the ether.
[01:24:51]  No, it's like, how did you learn this?
[01:24:53]  Where did you get this?
[01:24:54]  I'll give you the answer.
[01:24:57]  I have never had an original thought in my life.
[01:25:00]  And that should be a great consolation and a comfort to you.
[01:25:03]  Everything that you're hearing from me and Wes are not things that we invented, it's not novel.
[01:25:08]  It's things that we read from better and greater and older men.
[01:25:12]  That's it.
[01:25:12]  Yep.

=== Connecting With Like-Minded Churches (06:31) ===

[01:25:13]  Papa Cannon being one of them.
[01:25:14]  Yep.
[01:25:15]  Dapper Dan sent a couple chats here $5.
[01:25:17]  Thanks, Dan.
[01:25:18]  He said, I returned to Walsh when Megyn Kelly trashed him after he suggested young Christian men avoid dating female intellectuals.
[01:25:25]  So true, King.
[01:25:26]  Yep.
[01:25:26]  Where, whatever those are, and then followed up with another chat.
[01:25:29]  He said, On dating, I have found that liberal women are degenerate and Christian women are materialistic.
[01:25:34]  Don't know what I'm supposed to do.
[01:25:36]  I know what to do.
[01:25:37]  Make arranged marriages great again.
[01:25:41]  That's the only thing, honestly, I've thought about it a lot because pastorally, you know, I get this question all the time from young single men, you know, within our church, but also outside, you know, because we have a public ministry.
[01:25:53]  And that's all I can think.
[01:25:54]  All I can think is, like, no, you're not going to meet her at a bar, you're probably not going to meet her online.
[01:26:00]  That happens occasionally, and praise God when it does, and it's good.
[01:26:03]  The online, not the bar.
[01:26:04]  If it's the bar, it's.
[01:26:05]  Yeah.
[01:26:06]  But that's becoming increasingly more uncommon and rare.
[01:26:11]  And so, you know, naturally you would think, well, I'll meet her at church, you know, and I feel like the guy, you know, holding the gun, like, which church?
[01:26:20]  Well, I'll meet her at my conservative PCA church.
[01:26:26]  All right.
[01:26:26]  We'll see how that goes.
[01:26:28]  You know, go ahead and give me an update.
[01:26:31]  I'm fascinated, very curious how that works out.
[01:26:34]  So, where do you meet her?
[01:26:35]  And I honestly feel like, you know, your best bet.
[01:26:39]  And this is why, like, you know, Ogden with their conference, New Christendom, has done singles mixers.
[01:26:43]  We've done singles mixers because the reality is that finding someone in 2025 that really is like minded and off the liberal plantation, not on the right side of the liberal plantation.
[01:26:55]  I'm a conservative.
[01:26:56]  Oh, yeah.
[01:26:56]  What are you conservative?
[01:26:57]  You know, I'm conservating, you know, no female pastors, but, you know, based female podcaster, you know, female deacon.
[01:27:07]  It's not a pastor.
[01:27:07]  Yeah, absolutely.
[01:27:08]  Yeah, deaconess, you know, not a pastor, but a female, you know, shepherd, shepherdess, you know, like, oh, okay, so you're a lib.
[01:27:16]  Okay.
[01:27:17]  So then where do you find them?
[01:27:18]  And the reality is, I mean, it's unfortunate.
[01:27:22]  This isn't a brag.
[01:27:23]  I'm not, this brings me zero joy, but there are a handful of churches that I'm aware of that would hold anywhere close to the same kind of views that we hold or Refuge Church in Ogden, Utah would hold or, you know, a handful of others.
[01:27:39]  And so then, If you can't find a spouse in your local church, then what do you do?
[01:27:45]  I think you somehow have to be able to connect with those few other churches that are like minded.
[01:27:50]  And I think that's why it's important.
[01:27:51]  Like, this is if you're single, right?
[01:27:55]  If you have a faithful local pastor and local church, and he's based, he's courageous, and all those things, praise God.
[01:28:01]  You should be faithful to that church.
[01:28:03]  However, if you are single, single woman or single man, and in your local church setting, and you're in a good local church, but in that local church setting, you cannot find someone.
[01:28:11]  You've been there for years.
[01:28:13]  Plugging away, you've exhausted every opportunity that they're not there.
[01:28:18]  Then there is actually a benefit, right?
[01:28:20]  This is one of them.
[01:28:21]  But there is a benefit in being a part of a church that has a further reaching online platform beyond just their local setting.
[01:28:31]  Like one of the benefits of being in Brian Sauvay's church, for instance, is that it's not just, you know, the 400 people in attendance on the Lord's Day at Refuge Church in Ogden, Utah.
[01:28:43]  But because that church has a sizable, you know, online footprint, you have at your disposal through those elders, those leaders, a vast, a vast array of resources beyond just their local context.
[01:28:59]  Right?
[01:28:59]  Brian can pick up the phone and call me.
[01:29:01]  And in fact, we've done that.
[01:29:02]  Our wives have done that.
[01:29:03]  Lexi and my wife, Megan, have, you know, on multiple occasions texted each other and said, Got a single man over here in Ogden, got a single woman over here in Georgetown.
[01:29:14]  You know, and me and Brian, we don't even think about it because we're dudes.
[01:29:18]  But our wives, they get real excited and giddy and like, Oh, you know, and they're texting each other pictures.
[01:29:23]  I'm like, What are you doing?
[01:29:24]  Like, why are you looking at pictures of this dude?
[01:29:26]  Well, it's for her.
[01:29:27]  And why are you sending pictures of this chick?
[01:29:28]  Oh, it's for, you know, and that's a benefit that unfortunately is not available.
[01:29:35]  If you're a part of a church, albeit very faithful church, but if it's a very faithful church, it's probably smaller.
[01:29:41]  Let's just be honest, right?
[01:29:42]  The laws of average, it's probably smaller.
[01:29:44]  And if it doesn't have any kind of public ministry, a church does not have to have a public ministry like this to be faithful.
[01:29:49]  Of course not.
[01:29:51]  And there's benefits to churches that don't have a public ministry, right?
[01:29:54]  Because there are liabilities that come.
[01:29:57]  Our church is under more attack.
[01:29:59]  Ogden right now has protesters outside of the church, and that wouldn't be the case if it was just, you know, Brian preaching on the Lord's day.
[01:30:06]  It's because of their public podcast and those kinds of things.
[01:30:08]  So there are liabilities, there are downsides, but one of the advantages and upsides is that those churches that have a public reputation beyond just their local context have at their disposal a larger network, more resources, those kinds of things.
[01:30:25]  And that can be very helpful when it comes to finding a spouse.
[01:30:28]  Yeah.
[01:30:29]  And to the person who commented, just an encouragement I've known a lot of people, a lot of Christian men, Christian women in my life that were single, and they were very much so.
[01:30:38]  Not happy to be single.
[01:30:39]  And they had felt like it was over for them.
[01:30:41]  There's no way I'll ever meet someone.
[01:30:43]  But here's the deal all of them that kept getting out there, going to a singles mixer, trying out a new church, asking women out, in almost every single case that I could think of, real people with real names who hit their 30s, some of them even their early 40s, and they were still single and not happy about it.
[01:30:58]  On a long enough timeline, every single one of those people got married.
[01:31:01]  The people who have not gotten married are the people that have resigned.
[01:31:04]  I'm not going to try anymore.
[01:31:05]  I'm not going to attend church.
[01:31:06]  I'm not going to put myself out there.
[01:31:08]  I give up.
[01:31:10]  Dating, it has to work once.
[01:31:11]  You could go on a thousand dates.
[01:31:13]  And if the thousandth date is a date where you click and a date where you get her father's permission and it's a good girl and you pursue her and propose and get married, it does not matter that you failed 999 times.
[01:31:24]  Yeah, you're right.
[01:31:24]  You need to win once.
[01:31:26]  All it takes is one.
[01:31:27]  So keep getting out there.
[01:31:28]  If you're single and you don't want to be, keep getting out there.
[01:31:30]  Don't give up.
[01:31:30]  And in God's providence, it may not be in your time.
[01:31:33]  You may not be able to have as many kids, for example, as you wanted.
[01:31:36]  But I just, I don't know people that have spent 20 years and they're like, and I just truly ended up single.
[01:31:41]  Just by going on hundreds of dates.
[01:31:43]  Good word.
[01:31:43]  All right.

=== Winning Once Is All It Takes (15:24) ===

[01:31:44]  William Gadsden sent a $20 super chat.
[01:31:48]  Thanks so much, William.
[01:31:49]  Gentlemen, you consistently mentioned the importance of raising a political class from among the like minded young men.
[01:31:55]  Absolutely.
[01:31:56]  I am in a unique position to build infrastructure for this, but I need help.
[01:32:00]  What is the best way to reach you?
[01:32:02]  I'm very interested in talking to you.
[01:32:03]  Send me an email at Wesley, so W E S L E Y, at Right Response Ministries.com.
[01:32:09]  Send me an email, send me your name, and we'll connect.
[01:32:12]  But I very much so want to follow up with that.
[01:32:14]  Great.
[01:32:15]  Joel, go ahead.
[01:32:16]  Daniel Bartos, he gave us $10.
[01:32:18]  Thank you, Daniel.
[01:32:19]  We appreciate it.
[01:32:19]  He said, Would you consider an episode discussing the book Rock and Sand, an Orthodox Appraisal of the Protestant Reformers and Their Teachings by Father Josiah Trinham?
[01:32:32]  I am familiar with him.
[01:32:34]  Yeah.
[01:32:34]  And I think a lot of the stuff that he does is good.
[01:32:36]  We would agree on several issues.
[01:32:38]  I'm not EO for various reasons theological reasons.
[01:32:41]  Also, I'm an American, you know, so, you know, both of those reasons.
[01:32:45]  But I don't know.
[01:32:49]  I'd be open to it.
[01:32:51]  It might be more interesting to just have someone like that come on the show.
[01:32:54]  Yeah.
[01:32:55]  You know, we did that with Marshall.
[01:32:57]  Taylor Marshall.
[01:32:58]  Taylor Marshall.
[01:32:59]  I always want to say Marshall Taylor.
[01:33:00]  Taylor Marshall.
[01:33:01]  And it was great.
[01:33:03]  Yeah.
[01:33:04]  And, you know, I mean, he is a bit insufferable on Twitter in terms of, I mean, every other tweet is mocking, you know, Protestants.
[01:33:11]  Got it.
[01:33:11]  You know, I mean, he's convicted, you know.
[01:33:14]  But despite, you know, all the disagreements and the fact that, you know, that he's very much not fond of the Protestant position and many Protestants, we were still able to reach across the aisle and.
[01:33:27]  What I've found in my experience is even the guys who seem a little bit more edgy, you know, and combative, they may not reach out to you, but if you reach out to them, I've pretty much never had anybody say no.
[01:33:40]  They're like, hey, you know what?
[01:33:41]  You're willing to stop.
[01:33:42]  And so, you know, when we actually had Taylor Marshall on the show, he was very kind.
[01:33:45]  He was respectful.
[01:33:47]  And since then, we keep in contact and he's been kind.
[01:33:51]  So I think, you know, maybe doing a show with an EO guy would be good.
[01:33:57]  And I think that Josiah would be, I think, A good recommendation because, you know, some guys have said, What about Jay Dyer?
[01:34:04]  I think he's probably a great guy, too.
[01:34:05]  He, I mean, he makes some great cultural arguments, like a lot of alignment, you know, politically, right?
[01:34:11]  He would be like one of those cases where I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna, you know, shoot across the bow politically.
[01:34:17]  We would be aligned in many ways.
[01:34:18]  And he is sharp and he has done the reading.
[01:34:21]  He's a ferocious, ferocious debater.
[01:34:25]  But he sometimes is a little bit more hostile than I've seen him in those contexts.
[01:34:31]  And, uh, And I'm fine with somebody disagreeing, but I prefer to be able to disagree in a more civil manner.
[01:34:37]  And so I think Josiah would probably be a good fit.
[01:34:40]  Yep.
[01:34:41]  The next three chats, I think, are about Eastern Orthodoxy.
[01:34:44]  So I'm actually going to kind of tackle them as a bundle here.
[01:34:46]  The big red snake said $10.
[01:34:49]  First of all, thank you.
[01:34:50]  Would you consider talking about the repeated failures of Orthodoxy so the kids don't fall down the path of faith that spent most of its time being ruled by Muslims and commies?
[01:35:00]  Oof.
[01:35:00]  And then this dude, Rock, sent $2.
[01:35:02]  He did not nuance that, huh?
[01:35:04]  No, that was.
[01:35:06]  Let me tell you how it really is.
[01:35:07]  And then it was two comments.
[01:35:08]  This dude Rocks also sent $2 and said, Where do EO and 1689 Westminster Confessions, Reformed Protestants, most align?
[01:35:16]  So in the first one, we've done two episodes at this point on Orthodoxy.
[01:35:21]  Those have been very popular, very viewed, very commentary.
[01:35:24]  Very popular in the sense that they brought all the boys to the yard.
[01:35:27]  Very well liked?
[01:35:29]  No.
[01:35:30]  As the kids would say, we got dragged.
[01:35:32]  We got dragged.
[01:35:33]  The EO guys, you've got to give them credit for this.
[01:35:36]  Those guys live online.
[01:35:37]  You think I'm online?
[01:35:40]  Those guys are like.
[01:35:41]  You become a catechumen, and it's like, all right, here's your prayer necklace.
[01:35:45]  What do I need to do to be Eastern Orthodox?
[01:35:47]  You need to clock in 14 hours a day on Twitter.
[01:35:49]  Yep.
[01:35:50]  You need to be defending Father Moses.
[01:35:51]  You need to be reading the books.
[01:35:53]  So we've done two episodes.
[01:35:54]  I don't know that we would do a third one, maybe with someone like Josiah.
[01:35:57]  So I think if it was a conversation, then that would be fresh.
[01:36:00]  That would be a different approach, different strategy, and worth the while.
[01:36:03]  But in terms of us just doing an episode ourselves, I just feel like we've done it before.
[01:36:07]  Guys, know that we're not EO.
[01:36:10]  And yeah, and so, in terms of like where do we align, like honestly, I think it's fair to say that for your reformed, historically reformed Protestants, there is more theological alignment with Roman Catholics than there is with Eastern Orthodoxy.
[01:36:26]  So, you know, Eastern Orthodoxy doesn't, they reject, you know, a pope, they have more of a council, you know, rather than individual man who is the vicar of Christ.
[01:36:34]  And so, in that sense, you know, we would have some stark disagreements with Rome.
[01:36:39]  But as you start getting into soteriology and some of those things, doctrine of God, theology proper, the essence of God, we actually have a lot more in common with Rome.
[01:36:49]  And the reason why is because Rome is Western, right?
[01:36:52]  So for them, you know, the top guy is going to be Augustine, right?
[01:36:55]  It's going to be Augustinian.
[01:36:57]  And so a full embrace of substance, full embrace of logic, whereas Eastern Orthodoxy is more mystical.
[01:37:07]  It's a deeper emphasis that's placed on.
[01:37:11]  The mystical, the experience.
[01:37:13]  Rather than knowing God, it's the experience of being one with God.
[01:37:18]  Yep.
[01:37:19]  Two super chats.
[01:37:19]  These are both related to your comments about the Antioch Declaration.
[01:37:23]  So I'll give them to you.
[01:37:25]  Okay.
[01:37:25]  So we're starting with.
[01:37:27]  Top one.
[01:37:28]  This dude rocks.
[01:37:29]  Oh, this dude rocks.
[01:37:30]  Okay.
[01:37:30]  So he said Do you believe there is a genuine biblical steel man for what happened to you last year, or was it actually a political move against you?
[01:37:41]  I love Moscow and Apologia's Ministries.
[01:37:44]  This divide saddens me.
[01:37:45]  Well, I'll start by saying it saddens me too.
[01:37:48]  And I love those groups as well.
[01:37:50]  But we do have a significant, serious divide.
[01:37:55]  And it is sad because I really do feel like it was an unforced error.
[01:37:58]  I just think it was wrong.
[01:38:02]  But almost more than that, it's frustrating because I just feel like it was so unnecessary.
[01:38:07]  So if I was to steel man what was done to me, the best steel man that I could present would be.
[01:38:15]  I think the case that Doug kind of leaned on himself and presented, which was we were hedging our bets.
[01:38:22]  We were guarding the flank because Pete Hedsef was a CREC member coming from Doug Wilson's denomination.
[01:38:32]  And we knew that he was going to be up for not Attorney General, but Secretary of War.
[01:38:38]  Secretary of Defense?
[01:38:39]  No, no.
[01:38:39]  Defense.
[01:38:40]  War.
[01:38:40]  War.
[01:38:42]  And we were concerned that during his hearing and being questioned, that Accusations of anti Semitism would be thrown and hurled at him.
[01:38:56]  And so, because of his association with our denomination, the CREC, and so we wanted to hedge against that preemptively by coming out with the Antioch Declaration.
[01:39:06]  And Joel, we love him, but he just happened to get caught up in the crosshairs.
[01:39:14]  I think that's the steel man that I could offer.
[01:39:16]  That's the only one.
[01:39:17]  I think that's the best case that I can make.
[01:39:20]  That said, even with the Steel Man, Wes, you remember that hearing.
[01:39:27]  How many questions was it that?
[01:39:28]  Oh, it was the first question out of the gate.
[01:39:31]  So you go to a church in the CRC and Doug Wilson and Joel Webb?
[01:39:35]  No, not at all.
[01:39:37]  Never mentioned once.
[01:39:38]  Never mentioned once.
[01:39:38]  So I understand the preemptive, but it could have been.
[01:39:44]  I get that.
[01:39:45]  But I still think that there would be another way of dealing with it.
[01:39:49]  And I just, I think that that's what Ben Shapiro was doing.
[01:39:51]  That's why I brought up.
[01:39:52]  The instance because I do think it directly correlates with the young Republican, you know, group chat leak and all the things.
[01:39:58]  There's this topic of Netter that's been in the national news.
[01:40:02]  I think that that strategy is not pleasing to the Lord.
[01:40:06]  Not only do I think it's not a winning strategy, because that's part of the rhetoric that people say, well, you want to win, but what's, you know, what's the, what does it profit a man if, you know, if he gains the world but forfeits his own soul?
[01:40:16]  You know, if you have to forfeit your principles along the way, then it's not worth winning.
[01:40:22]  Well, I would just turn it, I would just flip it and say, okay, so what is, what does it profit a man?
[01:40:33]  If the neocons win, but their strategy of winning is taking everyone an inch to their right and sacrificing them on the altar of political success.
[01:40:44]  Right.
[01:40:45]  I mean, that's really what it was.
[01:40:46]  That's what Moscow did was, yeah, we've said a lot of spicy things over the course of 40 years, 40 years, but we're not like him.
[01:40:58]  Have him.
[01:40:59]  Have him.
[01:41:00]  Right.
[01:41:01]  And it's just kind of like a human sacrifice, right?
[01:41:04]  Like maybe we'll have a good.
[01:41:05]  Crop this year, good harvest.
[01:41:07]  If we take one of the people in the Aztec tribe and throw them on the altar and slit them open to the political gods, and maybe they'll favor us.
[01:41:18]  And that's what it was.
[01:41:19]  And I really do feel like it was hypocritical in the sense that so much of the position that Ogden has arrived at, that I've arrived at, that others have arrived at on this particular topic of Israel and Jewish influence.
[01:41:36]  Because it's more than just the nation state of Israel, right?
[01:41:38]  There are guys who are not Israeli citizens, but they are Jewish billionaires in the US with, you know, palpable, significant, extremely negative influence on our country, on our politics, on our culture.
[01:41:51]  And this topic, it's frustrating because we have selected and identified a separate case study that Doug Wilson, you know, for the most part has avoided.
[01:42:01]  But the principles that we employed are the very principles that we learned from him, right?
[01:42:06]  I mean, this is what Doug did for 40 years.
[01:42:09]  He would make a statement.
[01:42:11]  He would intentionally make an edge lord type of statement where he wouldn't provide some of the caveats.
[01:42:17]  I mean, the guy literally has one whole month out of the year called No Quarter November, where the whole purpose is to just say it, right?
[01:42:27]  Say the quiet part out loud without the caveats, without the disclaimers, and let the chips fall where they may.
[01:42:37]  He modeled it.
[01:42:38]  Like, this is his playbook.
[01:42:40]  This is what he did with slavery.
[01:42:44]  I mean, he literally wrote a book.
[01:42:45]  Right?
[01:42:46]  American slavery or Southern slavery as it was, co authored that book.
[01:42:50]  And there were certain things in the book that were categorically wrong.
[01:42:55]  And he corrected them the next day.
[01:42:57]  I think it was like 11 years later.
[01:43:02]  11 years later, the disclaimer came, the clarification.
[01:43:07]  So for 11 years, he was comfortable with just a super spicy topic, right?
[01:43:13]  Super controversial race and slavery.
[01:43:17]  Right?
[01:43:17]  650,000 people died over that race and slavery.
[01:43:21]  And this was like back in the day.
[01:43:23]  You think it's spicy now?
[01:43:25]  It was really spicy then.
[01:43:26]  He writes a whole book on it with actual, you know, factual, verifiable errors, historic errors in the book, realizes it and lets it ride for a decade.
[01:43:42]  And then later on, turns.
[01:43:46]  Here's a guy, you know, who's half my age.
[01:43:50]  And does not extend the same charity.
[01:43:53]  So that is hard to grapple with.
[01:43:57]  My point in, I guess, answering your question is that steel man is hard for me to construct.
[01:44:03]  It's hard for me to build that steel man, but I gave it my best.
[01:44:07]  Pete Hags said, That's all I got.
[01:44:09]  Here's a more likely one.
[01:44:10]  So, this is the big red snake sent $20.
[01:44:13]  He said, Joel, I honestly think Doug was jealous as you're edgier than him.
[01:44:16]  He just liked playing controlled opposition, but when it came to moving the ball, that ain't him.
[01:44:20]  You want to move the ball.
[01:44:21]  So now Doug Wilson needs an Antioch declaration.
[01:44:24]  It's another possible.
[01:44:26]  Possible.
[01:44:26]  I don't know his heart.
[01:44:27]  Can't say it definitively.
[01:44:29]  I won't feign omniscience.
[01:44:32]  But yes, I think it's, we'll just say both, right?
[01:44:35]  Both, not as the definitive answer, because I don't know, but both as possibilities.
[01:44:39]  One, Pete Hedsteth.
[01:44:41]  The other, what if it is envy?
[01:44:45]  Subscription numbers are down, not looking good.
[01:44:47]  Yep, who knows?
[01:44:48]  All right.
[01:44:49]  Spicy super chat for mostly peaceful merch $271,000 to Write Response Ministries.
[01:44:55]  Okay, you know what?
[01:44:56]  If you know, you know.
[01:44:56]  Don't joke about that.
[01:44:58]  And I'm not talking about, don't joke about the Holocaust numbers.
[01:45:01]  I mean, don't, do not tease us.
[01:45:03]  All right, if somebody makes that comment, As controversial as it is about the Holocaust, but I checked the account and they actually sent us $271,000, we don't have a problem.
[01:45:13]  Okay.
[01:45:15]  But the fact that you made that joke, and the worst part about it is that I know for a fact that you did not send us $271,000.
[01:45:20]  I see $199,000 right there.
[01:45:21]  I see $199,000 in the super chat.
[01:45:24]  I don't appreciate that kind of humor.
[01:45:27]  Mostly peaceful merch, consistent follower, consistent supporter.
[01:45:31]  We appreciate you.
[01:45:31]  Thanks.
[01:45:31]  Great, brother.
[01:45:33]  Go ahead with this next one.
[01:45:34]  Okay.
[01:45:36]  I want to say the name.
[01:45:37]  What is it?
[01:45:38]  The.
[01:45:39]  The big red snake.
[01:45:40]  Oh, big red snake.
[01:45:41]  Okay.
[01:45:42]  It's just all together as one word.
[01:45:45]  He said Doug Wilson videos are like watching a copyright attorney blather on in love with his own verbosity.
[01:45:55]  I don't have verbosity because I can't even pronounce the word.
[01:45:59]  He definitely had never read Shakespeare nor understands brevity is the soul of wit.
[01:46:06]  I will say, I think that Doug is pretty witty, but there are times where I think that.
[01:46:11]  He loves his poetry and prose to sometimes the detriment of the point.
[01:46:18]  I think, honestly, here's a great example that I, you know, not just trying to pick on him, but that I didn't appreciate.
[01:46:26]  Ogden, I think, was really courageous.
[01:46:29]  Brian Sauvay and Eric Kahn, these guys, when they talked about Black culture, and they were brutally honest, they were not hateful, they were not mean spirited.
[01:46:42]  They did not sin, but they were honest about the facts of black culture and black crime.
[01:46:48]  And these things are calling their listeners to attention to be aware of these things as they are.
[01:46:56]  And they got blasted.
[01:46:58]  They're still getting blasted.
[01:46:59]  They've got physical protesters present on Sunday at their church, tons of hate mail, death threats, the whole nine yards.

=== Honesty Without Hatred In Culture (10:17) ===

[01:47:09]  And Doug came out and defended them.
[01:47:13]  Well, Nope.
[01:47:18]  He came out and said the exact thing that Brian said, but so long and so wordy and in the tone of disagreement.
[01:47:30]  I disagree with you.
[01:47:36]  Page 47?
[01:47:38]  Yeah, my position is pretty much the same.
[01:47:41]  But I just.
[01:47:44]  And that I wish that I could say that's a one off, but it does seem increasingly common.
[01:47:53]  Is I actually agree with you.
[01:47:55]  In fact, I know that you kind of got your position from me, but I'm the only one who gets to say it.
[01:48:02]  Right.
[01:48:03]  And yeah, that's that is a problem.
[01:48:05]  That's frustrating.
[01:48:06]  Okay, next.
[01:48:08]  Nathan Duberle, 1999.
[01:48:11]  Very kind, Nathan.
[01:48:11]  Thank you for sending.
[01:48:13]  Keep speaking the truth.
[01:48:14]  Do you know any Christian small businesses making suits?
[01:48:18]  And other men's clothes that we can support.
[01:48:21]  We need one in the space.
[01:48:22]  I know a lot of merch, so mostly peaceful merch is a great example.
[01:48:25]  Protestant Prince, he does the hats.
[01:48:27]  You've got your lapel pins.
[01:48:29]  I don't know of any suits.
[01:48:32]  I don't know of any dress shirts.
[01:48:33]  If there are those out there, good guys aligned with us, post it, tag me, be aware of it.
[01:48:39]  I don't know of any right now.
[01:48:40]  I don't either.
[01:48:41]  All right, next.
[01:48:42]  Trevor Lewis, 251, sent $9.99.
[01:48:45]  This is random, but I looked up who kind of started the whole No Kings protest Leah Greenberger and Ezra Levin.
[01:48:53]  Is it a German last name?
[01:48:56]  Every single time.
[01:48:57]  Every single time.
[01:48:59]  I think we got to talk about No Kings.
[01:49:01]  Yeah.
[01:49:02]  So, Wes and I, we talked earlier this morning offline, and we've decided, in light of the No King protests that are going on nationwide, I think this Wednesday we're going to do a whole episode devoted to monarchy and talk about, and it's not just Protestants, but even Catholics.
[01:49:21]  This is European, but distinctly American.
[01:49:24]  In the American spirit, there was from the beginning, I think, a rebellious spirit and aversion.
[01:49:33]  Some of it was against tyranny that actually was objectively sinful, but some of it was simply, well, no one's above me.
[01:49:40]  We have no sovereign here, right?
[01:49:43]  Everyone's equal, everyone's the same.
[01:49:46]  And it's not a coincidence.
[01:49:47]  Black Lives Matter and radical egalitarianism and this and that love is love.
[01:49:52]  And I really do think that a lot of these later, more Progressive expressions of egalitarianism are rooted in liberalism.
[01:50:01]  And a lot of liberalism was kind of forged in the furnace of a rejection of kings, a rejection of nobility, a rejection of hierarchy, a rejection of authority.
[01:50:16]  So Christ is king.
[01:50:19]  Hell has a democracy, but heaven has a monarchy.
[01:50:24]  That does not necessarily mean that monarchy must be the form of government for every nation here on earth.
[01:50:31]  Which is in between heaven and hell.
[01:50:33]  I understand.
[01:50:34]  I understand the principle of the fact that it's total depravity, that no man is without his faults, his vices, his sin.
[01:50:45]  And so, therefore, power corrupts.
[01:50:49]  I understand that.
[01:50:50]  I'm wanting to have checks and balances and these kinds of things.
[01:50:52]  But the reality is that monarchies have found a way throughout history to have checks and balances, whether it's a council or a republic or the lords and vassals who could put pressure on the king and There's a great history of guillotining kings who don't do what you want them to.
[01:51:08]  Correct.
[01:51:08]  For the record.
[01:51:09]  There was a way of rejecting kings without rejecting monarchy entirely as a system.
[01:51:15]  So I think that because of America's history and founding, I think it's highly unlikely that you're going to have someone who is labeled king in our American context, at least anytime soon.
[01:51:28]  I do think, though, that the political landscape is ripe for the emergence.
[01:51:36]  And no, I don't think it's Trump.
[01:51:37]  I think he could be a precursor, but I don't think it's Trump.
[01:51:40]  But the emergence of someone who functionally, in many ways, functions as a king.
[01:51:45]  And Bukele in El Salvador would be, I think, a great example of this.
[01:51:51]  He's President Bukele.
[01:51:53]  But wink, wink, nod, nod.
[01:51:55]  He's King Bukele.
[01:51:57]  He's not held back by much.
[01:51:59]  And because he's functioning as a king in many ways, under his rule, El Salvador has been crushed.
[01:52:07]  Oh, it's improved.
[01:52:09]  Objectively and vastly.
[01:52:13]  But the people hate his authoritarian rule.
[01:52:15]  Oh, wait, he's the most popular leader in the world.
[01:52:18]  They love it.
[01:52:19]  Son of a gun.
[01:52:20]  And he's Christian.
[01:52:21]  So the idea that just monarchy is inherently immoral, I don't think is a Christian idea.
[01:52:29]  It's certainly not a historic Christian idea.
[01:52:31]  I think that people will make Christian arguments and they'll attempt to use scripture.
[01:52:36]  But again, I think their liberalism is showing.
[01:52:39]  So, that doesn't mean that every nation has to have a monarchy.
[01:52:42]  It doesn't mean that we even have to have a monarchy.
[01:52:44]  But do I think that it would be inherently wrong in all cases, even with a good king, a righteous king, to have a monarchy?
[01:52:51]  No, I don't.
[01:52:52]  And I do think that a lot of the American ethos and the particular vices that we have shown as a culture, as a society, to have a propensity towards can be tracked back to a rebellious spirit and aversion towards hierarchy, authority, and monarchy.
[01:53:10]  And I think that that would be a worthwhile episode.
[01:53:13]  Look forward to it Wednesday.
[01:53:15]  Andrew H sent $9.99.
[01:53:17]  Thanks, Andrew.
[01:53:17]  He said, Do you read from the KJV?
[01:53:19]  If not, why not?
[01:53:20]  Do you prefer the corrupt modern versions?
[01:53:23]  Do you think Andrew likes the KJV?
[01:53:26]  I'll be honest, about a year ago, I actually started reading from it.
[01:53:29]  Here's why I disagree with that second part.
[01:53:31]  I'd love to hear from the pastor, but I have yet to see a convincing side by side of the King James versus some of the more moderns.
[01:53:38]  I think of LSB, ESV, CSB, where any fundamental meaning is significantly altered.
[01:53:43]  Like I'll give you a textual variant, for example, that I've seen pulled out by KJV.
[01:53:47]  So, the King James 1 John 3 1 says, Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed upon us that we should be called the sons of God.
[01:53:55]  So, behold that we should be called the sons of God.
[01:53:57]  And if you change over and you read it in the ESV, see what kind of love the Father has given to us that we should be called the children of God.
[01:54:03]  And so is this phrase, and so we are.
[01:54:05]  And I've seen the Steven Anderson type say, and see, there you have it.
[01:54:08]  It's just feminine, gooey, you know, weak stuff inserted into the Bible.
[01:54:14]  Guys, you got to give better proof than that.
[01:54:16]  So, I prefer the KJV, I like it.
[01:54:19]  I don't think other versions, though, fundamentally, of the ones I'm aware of, the ones I listed, they're not fundamentally altering.
[01:54:25]  The text is not so different that it's like, and we've lost the divinity of Christ.
[01:54:29]  We lost his sufficiency to save.
[01:54:31]  All that's gone now because of the way we translated it.
[01:54:34]  I agree.
[01:54:34]  But yes, I like the KJV.
[01:54:37]  And I do think, you know, so the Texas Receptus versus the critical text and those two positions on, you know, which original manuscripts, it's not an argument.
[01:54:45]  Texas Receptus is not an argument for King James onlyism, but rather the received text that the King James was forged from.
[01:54:54]  So, that would also include the Geneva Bible.
[01:54:56]  There are other versions of the Bible, not many, but some, that came from the received text.
[01:55:01]  And basically, it's just an argument that says that certainly the emphasis of weight should be given to inspiration, divine inspiration, but it's not only divine inspiration of the writing of the text, but also divine preservation, right, in preserving the text.
[01:55:18]  And so, when you're talking about the received text, right, that's the original manuscripts from which we got the KJV.
[01:55:26]  When you're talking about the received text, you're talking about a text that in God's sovereignty and providence, he determined to not only preserve, but to preserve for centuries in a particular time when Christendom was shining, when it was most exuberant.
[01:55:45]  You have to admit that it was the King James Bible being used across the land in every home and every pulpit by the king himself.
[01:55:54]  King James.
[01:55:54]  I was about to say, monarchy, there you go.
[01:55:56]  Right, by the monarch.
[01:55:58]  In one of the most deeply, profoundly Christian times in all of Western history.
[01:56:06]  So, you know, I think one argument, just a practical argument, would be if it ain't broke, don't fix it, you know.
[01:56:11]  So the King James Bible has proven itself historically to be sufficient.
[01:56:19]  Now, if you want to argue that another text from the Greek or the meaning or this or that might be a little bit better or a little bit more beneficial, fine.
[01:56:29]  I think that's totally fine.
[01:56:31]  But I am not of the persuasion that the King James Bible, I'm not a King James onlyist, but I have a lot of sympathy for the TR position, the Texas Receptus.
[01:56:44]  And I do think that there are certain ways in which the King James is superior, although I believe all these major translations, thinking of NASB, thinking of NIV, even believe it or not, ESV, I think that they are the Word of God.
[01:56:59]  I know some guys who would say that they contain much of the Word of God, but are not infallible.
[01:57:04]  And the word of God inherently in and of themselves.
[01:57:07]  I'm not of that position.
[01:57:08]  I think that they are the word of God, and a lot of it comes down to preference.
[01:57:12]  But the King James Version, historically, in God's preservation and the way that it was used in building Christendom for a millennia, that's not trivial.
[01:57:24]  It should not be scoffed at.

=== Hope For A Move On Israel (03:07) ===

[01:57:27]  Final chat.
[01:57:27]  This dude rocks.
[01:57:28]  What a supporter.
[01:57:29]  $5.
[01:57:30]  Final thanks and prayer note.
[01:57:31]  Please pray for Ogden.
[01:57:33]  They are facing heat from Moscow and liberals.
[01:57:36]  Hmm.
[01:57:36]  Over the recent King's Hall episode.
[01:57:38]  Yes, they are.
[01:57:38]  And that's, I mean, that's the thing.
[01:57:40]  So, whether it's the young Republicans in a group chat, right, you've got the liberals and you've got Moscow, right?
[01:57:50]  Or if it's Ogden saying things they learned from Doug about race, you've got the liberals, you've got Moscow.
[01:58:01]  I am noticing a bit of a pattern and it's not good.
[01:58:05]  So, all right, that's it for today.
[01:58:07]  That's the show.
[01:58:07]  Hope that it's been beneficial.
[01:58:09]  Pray for Ogden.
[01:58:10]  And pray for Matt Walsh and Michael Knowles.
[01:58:13]  I think that they would soar.
[01:58:15]  I just think they would excel if they set out on their own.
[01:58:17]  I think that they're doing pretty well as things are.
[01:58:22]  But I do think that there is one major elephant in the room.
[01:58:26]  And eventually, I think Matt Walsh has proved his stripes despite neglect of that topic, given his context and situation in partnership with the Daily Wire.
[01:58:37]  But I do think that that has a short shelf life.
[01:58:43]  What I mean is that no matter how based he is and how courageous he is on all these other issues that do immensely matter, if he utterly neglects that one issue of Israel and Jewish influence, and not just for the last six months, but if he continues in that state for years, eventually there will be, I think, an undeniable loss of credibility.
[01:59:12]  Yeah.
[01:59:13]  I think that, you know, people just feel like, I'm sorry.
[01:59:16]  Yes, you're saying good things.
[01:59:17]  And yes, I love you.
[01:59:19]  And yes, I've benefited from you, but it bleeds over in the sense of like, I still struggle to trust you on all these other things where you're saying things that I think are good.
[01:59:30]  I still struggle to fully trust you, to trust the position that you're expressing or to trust the motives that you might have behind the position because there's this one area where you seem to be so obviously compromised.
[01:59:45]  Matt is not shilling for Israel, right?
[01:59:48]  Our words matter.
[01:59:49]  We need to be fair, right?
[01:59:51]  This is not an opportunity for hyperbole.
[01:59:54]  Matt is not shilling for Israel.
[01:59:55]  So I'm not saying, hey, you can't trust him because he's over there, you know, racking up his $7,000 per post, you know, for Israel.
[02:00:02]  But there comes a point, right?
[02:00:03]  Temporarily, I think people are sympathetic, but there comes a point that if this is prolonged, not saying, you know, false, categorically false things that are positive for Israel, but simply neglecting to say anything about Israel at all, will eventually chip away at his credibility.
[02:00:18]  I think it has.
[02:00:19]  I was about to say it's already underway.
[02:00:21]  And so I hope.
[02:00:23]  I hope that he makes a move soon.
[02:00:25]  Pray for him.
[02:00:27]  All right.
[02:00:27]  That's it.
[02:00:28]  That's the show.
[02:00:28]  Thanks for tuning in.
[02:00:29]  And we will talk about monarchy on Wednesday, Lord willing.
[02:00:33]  God bless.