NXR Podcast - THE LIVESTREAM - What Is Fascism?
Aired: 2025-10-15
Duration: 50:02


=== Fascism and Real People (13:48) ===

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[00:00:21]  We need this content for the glory of God to reach more people's ears.
[00:00:29]  Today, we're going to be talking about fascism.
[00:00:31]  All right, we're going to break it up into three different segments.
[00:00:34]  In the first segment, we're going to be talking about fascism as it's defined or how it's used as a bludgeon today by the left.
[00:00:42]  The left will call anyone a fascist if basically you just want to have a country, if you want to have law and order, if you don't want your wife to be having her throat slit on a train by a career criminal who's been arrested 13, 14 times prior.
[00:00:59]  So that's how the term is used today.
[00:01:01]  It's just used to try as an insult, to hurl, to try to get you to.
[00:01:05]  To stop standing in the way of the leftist revolutionaries, the communists who very much are trying to destroy our nation.
[00:01:13]  But then in our second segment, we'll get a little bit into more of the history of fascism.
[00:01:18]  And in the third segment, we'd be remiss if we didn't focus at least a good portion of our time on the most notable historic cases of fascism, the ones that people think about the most.
[00:01:29]  We'll talk about Franco, and then we'll also talk about the Third Reich and Germany and Hitler.
[00:01:35]  That'll be the episode for today.
[00:01:37]  What is fascism?
[00:01:39]  What are some of the similarities with right wing movements that there are today?
[00:01:43]  What are all the differences and distinctions?
[00:01:46]  Is this a term that should be redeemed?
[00:01:50]  Should we try to own the term and use the term?
[00:01:53]  Is it inherently evil to be a fascist, or are there ways of being a good fascist or a bad fascist?
[00:01:59]  These are the questions that we'll seek to answer in today's episode.
[00:02:02]  Tune in now.
[00:02:11]  We're talking today about fascism, and it's been this topic where it's kind of one of the things where you don't really want to cover it and talk about it.
[00:02:18]  It's one of these kind of ideas.
[00:02:20]  I think, in its narrow sense, it was a historical right wing counter movement to leftism and communism as it encroached into Europe.
[00:02:28]  That's what it was historically.
[00:02:29]  That's what it's been defined as.
[00:02:31]  No movement, no fascist movement has existed for about 75 years in any real sense.
[00:02:36]  And so it would be this thing that, like many political movements of the past, have come and gone.
[00:02:41]  But there's a group of people that are very insistent.
[00:02:44]  That we are not going to let this thing go.
[00:02:47]  And most insistent, you'll see him right there in the thumbnail, would be a big one Governor Gavin Newsom, Mussolini, as he's sometimes called in reference to the Italian fascist Benito Mussolini.
[00:02:58]  But Governor Newsom, he loves this term.
[00:03:01]  He's called Donald Trump.
[00:03:02]  And most recently, Deputy Chief of Staff Stephen Miller of the Trump administration, I think this tweet, this post got 30 million some views.
[00:03:11]  So this is not just hopped on one morning, had a back and forth, it was of no account.
[00:03:16]  All caps, if you're listening, Governor Newsom's press office.
[00:03:20]  This is his account.
[00:03:21]  Stephen Miller is a fascist.
[00:03:23]  Five little words, all caps.
[00:03:26]  One feeling.
[00:03:27]  Stephen Miller is the worst thing that anyone could ever be.
[00:03:31]  And in this exchange, you'll see actually Stephen Miller kind of snipes back at him.
[00:03:34]  He just asks, Why do you think they posted this?
[00:03:38]  And Governor Newsom's press office responded, Because you're a fascist.
[00:03:41]  And I'm going to go into a couple more examples of fascism being used in our modern context.
[00:03:46]  But right there, I think perfectly encapsulates what you said.
[00:03:49]  At the beginning, which is why Stephen Miller asks it.
[00:03:53]  Why did he call me this?
[00:03:55]  Why come out?
[00:03:55]  Why this term?
[00:03:56]  I mean, the tweet had five words.
[00:03:58]  So this is not something big and descriptive.
[00:04:00]  And he chose one word Stephen Miller is a fascist.
[00:04:06]  Four, let's see, what did Stephen Miller take charge and kind of like Caesar, like stab all his political opponents?
[00:04:13]  No, he didn't do that.
[00:04:14]  He wanted some law and order.
[00:04:16]  He's deploying immigration customs enforcement around our nation to take people that don't belong here and send them home.
[00:04:24]  So, for the crime of wanting to have a country, the governor of the biggest state in the union, the highest GDP, I mean, as California goes, goes the nation, comes out and says, Because you want this and you want a country, you're a fascist.
[00:04:37]  And the implication being, and because you're a fascist, I can do anything I want, anything to oppose it.
[00:04:43]  With impunity.
[00:04:44]  Yep.
[00:04:44]  By today's standards, basically, it's for those who want to degrade society and ultimately erode all sense of law and order.
[00:04:54]  Anyone who wants to impede them in that goal, Is a fascist, right?
[00:04:58]  Right, so that's the way that the term is used today.
[00:05:01]  You are a fascist because you believe in law and order, because you won't let us get away with what we want to do, which is to destroy your company, to seize your children's inheritance, and to erode away at the fabric of law and order that built this civilization so that we can do with it whatever we want.
[00:05:19]  Anyone who's trying to stop us in that objective, we're going to call a fascist.
[00:05:24]  And it seems hyperbolic, like you say, then it's like, oh, come on, okay, governor of California.
[00:05:29]  Let me give you another one right here.
[00:05:30]  So, this was an exchange as well that went decently viral.
[00:05:33]  Someone said this.
[00:05:34]  They said, at some point in the not too distant future, we're going to have to choose between solving the actual, extremely real, horrible problems our society is mired in.
[00:05:43]  A great example would be the stabbing on the train that happened in August.
[00:05:46]  A black man, unprovoked, stabbed a white woman from behind and killed her.
[00:05:51]  This is the case in point of horrible problems.
[00:05:53]  He was a career criminal.
[00:05:54]  Exactly.
[00:05:55]  This was his 14th chance.
[00:05:57]  Yep.
[00:05:57]  He had been arrested and tried and released.
[00:06:00]  13 or 14 prior times.
[00:06:02]  So, real problem in society.
[00:06:04]  And then this poster goes on and says we have to have a conversation how to solve these real problems and preserving a legal system that makes it impossible to solve them.
[00:06:14]  So, he's saying there's two options.
[00:06:16]  We can actually solve the problems in our society and do so lawfully, right?
[00:06:20]  Lawfully meaning ethically, morally, or the choices between that, solving the real problems or preserving a legal system, right?
[00:06:30]  The purpose of a system is what it does.
[00:06:32]  Preserving our current legal system that makes it impossible to solve these problems.
[00:06:38]  So that's where people will say, Well, you're a fascist.
[00:06:41]  It's like, No, I'm trying to establish law and order so that career criminal, which is an oxymoron, doesn't exist and so that white girls don't get stabbed on a train, right?
[00:06:52]  That's what we're trying to do.
[00:06:54]  We're trying to actually impose ethical, moral laws.
[00:06:58]  But these ethical and moral laws, because our current justice system has been so degraded over time, these moral and ethical laws, Are standing in direct contrast to the unethical and immoral laws that we currently have in our system today.
[00:07:15]  So, those people who are leftists are going to say, That's fascism.
[00:07:20]  You want to change the law.
[00:07:21]  And we would say, The law is only good, as the scripture says, if it be used lawfully.
[00:07:28]  We currently have unlawful laws and an unlawful justice system that does not achieve justice.
[00:07:36]  We should fix that.
[00:07:37]  And there is zero chance that you will be able to make any attempts in fixing our unlawful legal system without being labeled a fascist.
[00:07:48]  And you can see here on the screen, someone, James Surowecki, why do they call us fascists?
[00:07:54]  Oh, wow, you want to solve this problem?
[00:07:56]  He's saying that's fascist.
[00:07:57]  Why do they call you fascist?
[00:07:58]  Implying you are one, you're acting like one for wanting law and order.
[00:08:03]  Last example here, this is reporting from InfoWars.
[00:08:05]  In Florida, a teacher watched 10-year-olds.
[00:08:09]  In their class to watch Charlie Kirk's murder video again and again from the article that stated, while playing the video repeatedly, the teacher gave a speech to his students regarding anti fascism, anti trans, and how Charlie Kirk deserved for this to occur, the source added.
[00:08:26]  So you're all right, I'm in Florida.
[00:08:28]  This is great, you know, where woke goes to die.
[00:08:31]  And you have a teacher playing Charlie Kirk's video again and again for 10 year olds.
[00:08:35]  And what is he lecturing them on?
[00:08:37]  Charlie Kirk deserved it.
[00:08:39]  And we need to be.
[00:08:41]  Anti fascists.
[00:08:43]  It's funny, it's added right in there.
[00:08:44]  Anti trans as well.
[00:08:46]  It's funny, they always kind of go hand in hand.
[00:08:47]  So, like Antifa, I mean, one of the gayest groups on earth, like literally full of gay people, full of communists, and it all kind of comes alongside.
[00:08:56]  So, like, what do we oppose?
[00:08:57]  Fascism.
[00:08:58]  What are we?
[00:08:59]  We're gay.
[00:09:00]  We're furries.
[00:09:01]  We're violent.
[00:09:02]  We're unstable.
[00:09:04]  We're career criminals.
[00:09:05]  And so, I would say we're all on depression drugs.
[00:09:11]  We're all depressed.
[00:09:12]  So, from the highest to the lowest level, these are just small cases in point from, I would say, probably the last half decade of any type of, I want my country back.
[00:09:21]  Hey, this is wrong.
[00:09:22]  Hey, we get to have a country.
[00:09:24]  That's fascism.
[00:09:25]  That's fascism.
[00:09:26]  And you can't do that.
[00:09:27]  And I don't think it's an exaggeration to say whether we would literally, you could literally say Charlie Kirk, for sure, the sentiment expressed by leftists after he was killed, but certainly other more minor acts of violence.
[00:09:38]  There was a man who attempted to kill the Supreme Court Justice, Brett Kavanaugh.
[00:09:42]  This type of rhetoric results in real people.
[00:09:45]  Being threatened, and in some cases, actually dying.
[00:09:48]  Because you're calling these people, like you got to understand, this word has become, it represents everything evil.
[00:09:53]  Like that is the most evil thing that you could be in the world to people like Newsom, to leftists like this.
[00:09:59]  The worst thing that you could be in the world is a fascist.
[00:10:01]  And what should we do?
[00:10:03]  Our grandfathers, they fought fascism.
[00:10:05]  And I remember Captain America.
[00:10:07]  There's old comic books, you know, he's Captain America and he's punching Nazis.
[00:10:11]  And like, what would Captain America do?
[00:10:12]  And what would your grandfather do?
[00:10:14]  He would go out there and he would punch Nazis and he would fight fascists and he would maybe do a little bit more.
[00:10:21]  And it results in real violence against real people who most of them are, I mean, Brent Kavanaugh.
[00:10:27]  The guy is not a neo Nazi.
[00:10:28]  Come on now.
[00:10:29]  He's a moderate.
[00:10:30]  Charlie Kirk.
[00:10:31]  Again, moderate.
[00:10:33]  These guys are not extremists.
[00:10:34]  They're not authoritarians.
[00:10:35]  They're not violent.
[00:10:37]  And these real good men are being threatened just for, again, wanting simple things that have been deemed fascism by the left.
[00:10:44]  Yeah.
[00:10:45]  And just for the record, our great grandfathers, you know, were even in the case of maybe Zoomers who are listening, great great grandfathers who fought in World War II and fought some of these battles.
[00:10:55]  Yes, they did fight a form of fascism.
[00:10:59]  But had they known that in the end, they would be fighting for gay furries?
[00:11:05]  And the mutilation of minors and the abortion of a million babies in America alone per year, they wouldn't have done it.
[00:11:13]  They thought that they were fighting actual fascism that had gone way too far, that was actually doing things that were unethical.
[00:11:23]  They did not realize that their work and their blood, sweat, and tears was going to be utilized by prior or following generations to label anyone who believed all the things that they themselves believed and held dear.
[00:11:38]  As being a fascist.
[00:11:40]  There was a survey of US troops, I think it was from the early 40s, so the beginning of World War II, which wasn't popular, by the way.
[00:11:46]  The public did not really support going back into another war, but there was a survey of different attitudes.
[00:11:52]  Some of it was towards Jews, some of it towards different groups.
[00:11:55]  But 90% of the men surveyed, and you can do with this what you want, but 90% of the men surveyed said they would rather lose the war to Adolf Hitler than end segregation.
[00:12:03]  Like practically that is what your grandfather believed.
[00:12:06]  They said, sure, you know, we care about this war and we want to win.
[00:12:09]  And there was a sense of patriotism, especially here on the home front.
[00:12:12]  When it came down to it, if you asked them, would you trade this for it?
[00:12:16]  A lot of them didn't feel that way.
[00:12:17]  They would have said, no.
[00:12:18]  Something like 60% of service members said they didn't think Jews should be allowed in the U.S. after the war.
[00:12:24]  Now, you can have disagreements with your great grandfather.
[00:12:26]  Hey, great grandpa, I think you were a little bit off on this, or I think you're wrong with this reason.
[00:12:31]  My point is not that you have to agree with these men and their sentiments, but those men, your great grandfather, that's how they thought.
[00:12:38]  For better or for worse, that's what they thought.
[00:12:40]  And at a certain level, I would expect to show some level of respect to them, even with With disagreement.
[00:12:47]  Even if I said, I wouldn't go that far, still say, but you know what?
[00:12:51]  I also respect that this is not crazy.
[00:12:53]  It's not unhinged.
[00:12:54]  If you are a Christian man, this doesn't void your profession of Christian faith.
[00:12:58]  I get it.
[00:12:59]  Yeah.
[00:13:00]  The generation that fought fascism never would have dreamed, never would have even imagined that they themselves would be considered extreme fascists by today's standards.
[00:13:14]  That's, you know, because people on the left, they'll point to them and say, well, they fought.
[00:13:17]  Fascism and they were the good guys.
[00:13:19]  You know, they fought Adolf Hitler and did this kind of stuff.
[00:13:21]  But all the things that they believed from actual, you know, historically recorded polls, the things that they believed, not just in Tifa, but your average liberal today in America would label as fascism.
[00:13:36]  That's the irony.
[00:13:36]  So the guys who fought fascists, absolutely, in like 100% of cases, would be called fascists if they were alive today and publicly communicated even a tenth of their views.

=== The Problem with Fascis (02:07) ===

[00:13:48]  Absolutely.
[00:13:50]  It's incredibly ironic.
[00:13:51]  Let's go to our first commercial break and we'll talk about fascism historically.
[00:13:55]  All right.
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=== Rome's Collective Symbol (07:00) ===

[00:15:56]  All right, we're back.
[00:15:58]  So, the way fascism, the way where the word actually comes from, it has a very, very ancient usage.
[00:16:04]  It goes all the way back to what a fascis is.
[00:16:07]  So, fascis comes from the singular Latin term fascis.
[00:16:10]  A fasciese is a bundle in a collection of fascists, which is actually a group of sticks that are bundled around an axe.
[00:16:16]  Sometimes the axe has one head, sometimes it has two.
[00:16:19]  Hold up.
[00:16:20]  Are you saying that fascists are a bundle of sticks?
[00:16:23]  All right.
[00:16:25]  Well, it cannot be my ideology.
[00:16:29]  Hold on a second.
[00:16:30]  On principle, like if we're about to spend the rest of this episode trying to say that a bundle of sticks that starts with a word that starts with the letter F is somehow a good thing, I just.
[00:16:39]  There's an axe in the middle.
[00:16:40]  I can't get behind it.
[00:16:41]  I don't know.
[00:16:43]  All right, how about this?
[00:16:44]  Go ahead.
[00:16:44]  This picture you'll see on screen, I'll describe it if you're listening.
[00:16:47]  This is our House of Representatives here in these United States in the year of our Lord 2025.
[00:16:53]  What I just described, sticks bound together around an axe, is actually a symbol that stands right behind.
[00:17:00]  So if the vice president is there, you saw this with Trump when he addressed the nation, certainly behind the speaker of the House.
[00:17:07]  This is a symbol that has been very common in our government from the beginning.
[00:17:11]  It's the bundle of sticks, it's the axe within it.
[00:17:13]  And what it actually symbolized in Rome, a magistrate would go out and he'd be surrounded by, it depended on his authority, it depended on how many provinces he was over, but he'd be surrounded by 12 men that were called lictors.
[00:17:25]  And these lictors would carry with them these bundles, these fasces.
[00:17:29]  And what it symbolized was the individual brought under and bound together in the collective.
[00:17:35]  So, for example, if he was a magistrate over 12 provinces, he would have 12 lictors around him and they would carry these 12 bundles.
[00:17:42]  And some of them were often inscribed.
[00:17:44]  With the actual name of the provinces that he was over, and what it symbolized, and why he was carried.
[00:17:48]  You can even see coins of you see, for example, a prince going around and he's surrounded by these men carrying these bundles.
[00:17:55]  Was it symbolized the collective power of the state?
[00:17:58]  Fascism is very pro state.
[00:18:00]  There's a quote from Mussolini, the Italian fascist.
[00:18:02]  He said, Everything the state, everything under the state, nothing against the state.
[00:18:06]  That's essentially the version of the quote.
[00:18:08]  And so in ancient Rome, what it symbolized was we have law and we have rule of order and these things matter.
[00:18:14]  When I, the magistrate, go out and I visit and I come to the town or I walk through your streets, I'm surrounded by men, and what they carry with them is authority.
[00:18:23]  And what you are being communicated to, citizen of Rome, citizen of my province, is that you are not just an individual doing your own thing, but bound together, our provinces, we're strong.
[00:18:35]  Bound together, we wield an axe.
[00:18:36]  We have power.
[00:18:37]  It's militaristic.
[00:18:39]  So, this symbol, all the way back, going back to Rome, that's what it represented.
[00:18:42]  It represented law, it represented hierarchy, and it represented power.
[00:18:47]  And collectivism.
[00:18:48]  And collectivism.
[00:18:49]  And not just the atomistic individualism.
[00:18:51]  That's not just Americans.
[00:18:53]  Really, really, really like, but has not always been really, really good.
[00:18:58]  Yep.
[00:18:58]  So, ironically enough, again, for all the left bleeding about anti fascism, you'll see here.
[00:19:05]  So, this is our House of Representatives.
[00:19:07]  This is a very concerning, very concerning right wing revolutionary, founder of this great nation, George Washington.
[00:19:14]  And you'll see there that he has his hands on top of a bundle, a collection of rods bound together with an X, a fascist symbolizing a word that starts with the letter F, where this starts with the letter F. I'm having a hard time getting passes.
[00:19:29]  Keep going.
[00:19:30]  Here, I got a good one for you.
[00:19:31]  This is the Lincoln Memorial.
[00:19:33]  And the Lincoln Memorial does have those, which Lincoln may actually have been.
[00:19:38]  I mean, of all guys, I think about it like, I'm going to pillage and burn half of this country to keep them together with my military.
[00:19:45]  Because you really love black people.
[00:19:46]  No, I actually want to send them away.
[00:19:48]  And I use the N word on regular occasion.
[00:19:51]  But Lincoln was not our guy.
[00:19:55]  Go ahead.
[00:19:55]  No.
[00:19:56]  And America saw that as a continuity with the Rome of old.
[00:20:00]  Remember that we have a republic.
[00:20:01]  So we're not this raw democracy.
[00:20:03]  We represent a republic.
[00:20:04]  And a republic has different representatives in it.
[00:20:06]  And it's a balance of an aristocracy, an executive branch, so your type of monarch, trying to bring all of those elements together.
[00:20:15]  We saw ourselves very much so in continuity with Rome.
[00:20:18]  And what I want to get across in this segment before in the last segment, we get into the history, we get into the 1900s movement, specifically known as fascism, is that America very much so saw its continuity and saw itself as.
[00:20:31]  Anti liberal, anti egalitarian.
[00:20:33]  And these symbols are not accidents.
[00:20:36]  I mean, we're talking about the back wall in the Speaker of the House.
[00:20:39]  All of the representatives of all the states of America face that wall.
[00:20:43]  It stands over where the Speaker of the House resides.
[00:20:47]  And what's been chosen to be there, for better or worse, is a symbol of collective strength, a symbol of collective authority, a symbol of hierarchy.
[00:20:56]  If you have a Speaker of the House, well, he's just another representative.
[00:20:59]  What makes him so special?
[00:21:01]  Well, he's a part of the ruling party and he's more mature.
[00:21:05]  He's better at his job.
[00:21:06]  He's more well networked.
[00:21:07]  He's better than you.
[00:21:09]  And nowhere in our history do we see these things as antithetical to the American spirit.
[00:21:13]  Our emphasis on democracy, our emphasis on equality, our emphasis on occlusion, those are much later additions that come post World War II.
[00:21:23]  But you have to understand for 200 years of American history, we very much so, I mean, it would be almost unrecognizable.
[00:21:33]  People that looked back, that they think America was this place that made this wonderful promise, right?
[00:21:37]  We hold these truths to be self evident that all men are created equal.
[00:21:41]  Well, that was America, and she just wanted to expand more rights to more people, expand them to African Americans and expand them to women.
[00:21:48]  And now we're here and we're expanding them to gays.
[00:21:50]  That was not America.
[00:21:51]  And we see that because we see what was written, we see how our buildings are adorned.
[00:21:56]  We understood once upon a time, but not anymore, we understood hierarchy, we understood authority, we understood rule of law.
[00:22:05]  And in a broad sense, we'll get into the narrow expression of it in a little bit.
[00:22:10]  Fascism's trying to capture a little bit of that.
[00:22:12]  A little bit of a time where we actually recognize that egalitarian principles.
[00:22:17]  Well, everyone's equal in all facets, and everyone deserves to participate.
[00:22:22]  We should be ruled by the people, democracy.
[00:22:25]  Some of what we're getting back to is can we go back to a time like Rome where we recognized the aristocrats, where we recognized the supremacy of the law, where we recognized beauty and architecture and rule?
[00:22:38]  I think that's some of what's being captured.
[00:22:40]  It's again, it's in our symbols, it's in our continuity with Rome.
[00:22:44]  We kind of long for that time to be had again.
[00:22:47]  Yeah.
[00:22:49]  Let's go to our second commercial break and we come back.
[00:22:50]  We'll land the segment by talking about what fascism is, narrowly and historically speaking.
[00:22:55]  All right.

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=== 1920s Anti-Semitism Series (08:27) ===

[00:26:18]  Well, we've talked about how the term is used today and we've talked about some of the historical backing, but I think everyone listening is kind of like, okay, you've got to get to the meat of it.
[00:26:26]  There was a movement, a series of movements in the 1900s that explicitly termed themselves fascists.
[00:26:32]  And that's what really everyone kind of gets at.
[00:26:34]  So if it's whether today, well, you're acting like a fascist like this movement that happened in the 1920s and the 1930s.
[00:26:41]  You're acting like a fascist.
[00:26:42]  You're acting like the Nazis.
[00:26:44]  And So, Karl Marx writes the Communist Manifesto in 1849, so a good bit before the 1900s, 50 some years.
[00:26:53]  He, of course, dies before he ever lives to see it, but in October of 1917, Lenin and the Bolsheviks actually complete the first successful communist revolution on a major scale.
[00:27:04]  And you have then, Lenin obviously passes away relatively quickly, and you have Stalin that gets into power in the 1920s.
[00:27:11]  In combination with that, Germany at the Treaty of Versailles is sacked with A number of sanctions that is absolutely devastate their economy, and you have the rest of Europe recovering from World War I.
[00:27:22]  And so, in that time, the 1920s leading into the 30s, you have basically left wing Bolshevism, left wing communism, and it's absolutely doing numbers on Western Europe.
[00:27:34]  So, this would be Italy, this would be Germany, this would be Spain, and to a lesser degree, Britain to the north.
[00:27:39]  And communism, we're talking about communists that are violent, we're talking about, in many ways, their Antifa is very much so, right in.
[00:27:48]  Right in line with them.
[00:27:49]  They're spiritual children.
[00:27:50]  They're violent.
[00:27:51]  They're disruptive.
[00:27:52]  They're revolutionaries.
[00:27:53]  So we're not talking like formal wars where actual armies can be observed.
[00:27:58]  They march out to the battlefield, but assassinations, firebombing, destroying political parties, assassinations, all of that.
[00:28:05]  That's what the left is doing.
[00:28:08]  And so you had a series of counter right wing movements to counter the left wing infiltration that happened.
[00:28:14]  Charles Haywood, he had a great review.
[00:28:16]  This is Paul Gottfried's book, Fascism, the Career of a Concept, really getting into historically narrowly.
[00:28:21]  What it was.
[00:28:22]  And Charles Haywood, as a summary, he said this.
[00:28:24]  He says, It does seem, however, that fascism only arises, at least historically, when the left has fully embarked on its ruination of a particular nation and existing right structures have shown themselves incapable of putting down the evil.
[00:28:39]  And so you had, whether it was in Germany or whether it was in Spain with Franco, and I realize that Franco wasn't necessarily in the narrow sense of fascist, but essentially different structures and different right wing movements.
[00:28:51]  You can kind of imagine the neocons of today.
[00:28:53]  They'd failed to contain leftism.
[00:28:54]  They had no response.
[00:28:56]  Luke Kelly, he's called a fascist by a great example.
[00:29:00]  So the left is there in the case of El Salvador.
[00:29:03]  They're violent.
[00:29:04]  People are afraid to go outside of their homes.
[00:29:06]  It's not just safety either, religion.
[00:29:09]  In Italy at the time, communists were exhuming bodies of nuns and desecrate them, firebombing churches.
[00:29:17]  There's a point in World War II where they were forcing priests to take communion with molten lead.
[00:29:22]  So violent leftist revolutionaries inflicted on Western Europe.
[00:29:26]  In the wake of World War I, led to about a series of four different counter right wing movements that are generally broadly termed fascism.
[00:29:35]  Again, Italy with Francisco Franco.
[00:29:37]  That's not really kind of technically fascism in the sense because he was probably more a religious figure.
[00:29:43]  But you had Italy, for better or for worse.
[00:29:45]  You had Germany, which Germany, most scholars would agree, isn't really fascism.
[00:29:49]  It was actually a distinction called National Socialism, which was much more racially focused.
[00:29:54]  So you had Italy, you had Germany.
[00:29:56]  Italy is the most pure expression of fascism.
[00:29:59]  And in that, even too, it was kind of a post hoc justification, an assemblage philosophically for Mussolini after he took power.
[00:30:07]  This is one of the hallmarks of fascism you have a Populist, charismatic leader.
[00:30:12]  And he comes to power and he kind of embodies that ethos of, again, power, rule of law, resistance to the left.
[00:30:19]  But to Haywood's point here in this quote, it's always arising in response to the left.
[00:30:25]  And it's not just the left, like, well, we're going to raise the minimum wage.
[00:30:29]  We're talking when the left has finally kind of reached its culmination.
[00:30:32]  Like in Germany, you have to understand in the early 1920s, Germany was destroyed.
[00:30:38]  They had no money because they were forced with all of this war debt.
[00:30:41]  And a number of different international individuals had come in and were all sorts of degeneracy and perversion, especially in Berlin.
[00:30:51]  You have the first, for example, first transgender surgeries being done there in the 1920s.
[00:30:57]  So it's nations pushed to their edge by leftism.
[00:31:00]  And then you have what had happened in the 1900s counter right wing movements that came back with force the fascists, whether it be Franco.
[00:31:09]  The other one that's not mentioned because he didn't succeed historically was Oswald Mosley up in Britain.
[00:31:14]  He advanced a form of fascism.
[00:31:16]  And with all of these different movements, there's not one single characteristic that unifies them.
[00:31:20]  That's why I best describe it as a right wing movement that is a response to the left wing.
[00:31:26]  For example, this is kind of interesting.
[00:31:28]  We always think of fascism as being anti Semitic.
[00:31:31]  But if you read Mussolini, for instance, and he changed on this a little bit into the 30s, but listen to him writing in the 1920s.
[00:31:38]  I mean, this is the archetypal Italian fascist.
[00:31:40]  He says this Italy knows no anti Semitism, and we believe that it will never know it.
[00:31:46]  Let us hope that Italian Jews will continue to be sensible enough.
[00:31:49]  So, as to not give rise to anti Semitism in the only country where it has never existed.
[00:31:54]  And so, even within, like, right here, is that can Jews please avoid the leading cause of anti Semitism?
[00:32:01]  Which is?
[00:32:02]  Jewish behavior.
[00:32:03]  Exactly.
[00:32:04]  And so, there's no single unifying thing.
[00:32:06]  Well, this is anti Semitism and this is fascism, or it's this or whatever.
[00:32:10]  In context, it was.
[00:32:11]  And I think, in the name of honesty, we should just say, yeah, what is that?
[00:32:17]  What kind of describes it?
[00:32:19]  Well, it was a series of 1920s pushback against the demon of communism and Bolshevism, which went on to do terrible things.
[00:32:29]  I mean, to the USSR, so the Federation of Soviet States that were melted under it.
[00:32:33]  You have to understand that by the 50s and 60s, almost half the world was under communism.
[00:32:38]  There was a reason we used to say better dead than red in the United States.
[00:32:44]  We fought a Cold War, we had nuclear weapons.
[00:32:46]  There were points where it's like, are we going to all just obliterate ourselves with nuclear weapons and bring on the end times?
[00:32:52]  That's what was happening.
[00:32:54]  And so, narrowly speaking, in the interest of honesty, I think this is the best way to describe it, define it, and speak of it.
[00:33:03]  Fascism, what is it?
[00:33:04]  What is it?
[00:33:05]  What is it described as?
[00:33:06]  A series of early 1900s revolutionary, reactionary, right wing movements against the rise of communism, marked by a strong sense of nationalism, one party control, and populist leaders.
[00:33:19]  I think that's what it is.
[00:33:20]  It can be done badly, it can be done theoretically if it's a Christian, like especially in Italy.
[00:33:25]  Like Franco was Catholic and he was not a big fan of Protestants.
[00:33:29]  Well, that's why Tolkien, C.S. Lewis and Tolkien, you know, they had multiple conversations about this and they sharply disagreed with one another.
[00:33:36]  So, Lewis, who we like, we appreciate C.S. Lewis a lot, but he did not like Franco.
[00:33:43]  He thought that he was a fascist and that that was very bad.
[00:33:46]  Whereas Tolkien was like, you know, I actually like him and appreciate him.
[00:33:50]  And the big difference was between them was likely a more personal bias, more subjective than actually objective.
[00:33:58]  Lewis, being a Protestant, didn't really have any sympathy for all the things that Franco was doing and the people that he was protecting.
[00:34:05]  Whereas Tolkien, being Catholic, he was looking at Italy and what was going on and saying, they're raping nuns.
[00:34:13]  And so he was like, and of course I support this.
[00:34:16]  The one who, like the Napoleon quote, you know, the one who saves his country violates no law.
[00:34:21]  And so he looked at Franco as a hero.
[00:34:24]  And Lewis said, it seems a bit extreme.
[00:34:27]  And even when it comes to Franco, like I mentioned, he was Catholic, not a fan of Protestants, but I actually had the privilege.
[00:34:32]  Probably about four months or so ago at this point, I posted something related to Franco, and someone reached out to me whose family had, they were actually Baptists in Italy during the time, I think it was through the 70s that Franco was essentially the monarch of Italy.
[00:34:44]  And they said it was tough.

=== Christian Nationalism Defined (15:16) ===

[00:34:45]  You had to apply for government exemptions.
[00:34:46]  This was not like a rubber stamp on a piece of paper.
[00:34:49]  But all of them agreed that even as Protestants, even being unfavored, so you did not get to have, you know, you did not get to have your prime spot in the town square, you did not get to probably even hold public office.
[00:35:01]  They said still, even then, it was so much better.
[00:35:05]  Than the communist violence that we were facing.
[00:35:08]  So, to varying degrees, there's numbers of different instantiations of it.
[00:35:13]  But, an example of Italy, like, yeah, a Catholic Christian prince came in and said, the violence will cease.
[00:35:20]  Now, he himself violently suppressed communism.
[00:35:23]  But, when you're talking communism, what other recourse do you have?
[00:35:28]  There's a famous quote, and I'm not saying that I like it.
[00:35:31]  So, I'm not saying, oh, I love this and I want to do this and I'm prescribing this.
[00:35:34]  I'm just saying this is a famous quote.
[00:35:36]  And I'm not saying it as a prescription, but I think that it is a fairly accurate description.
[00:35:43]  The quote is this You can vote your way into communism, but you can only shoot your way out.
[00:35:49]  And I think there's truth there that, like, we have by extending the vote to everyone, universal suffrage.
[00:35:55]  So you're on welfare, you don't produce anything, you don't work, you don't pay any taxes, you don't feed your own family, everyone else is paying for you, and you're a liability and a weight on the tax system.
[00:36:08]  You get to vote.
[00:36:09]  You're a man, you get to vote.
[00:36:11]  You're a woman, you get to vote.
[00:36:13]  You are an immigrant who goes to a particular city, you're not even a citizen, but that city allows you to vote through mail in ballots and ballot harvesting.
[00:36:24]  Oh, a bunch of even illegals are effectively voting in certain cities.
[00:36:29]  And this has been proven in certain cities in New York and these kinds of things.
[00:36:32]  So when you expand to where everyone gets to vote, then politicians quickly discover, and this is why they open your borders and things like this.
[00:36:41]  That people will vote for stuff.
[00:36:43]  And so all they have to do is promise people, but the politicians don't promise their stuff.
[00:36:47]  They promise your stuff.
[00:36:48]  So they promise your stuff in order to secure votes for themselves.
[00:36:52]  And so then what ultimately happens is you just keep it, it's just a race to the bottom.
[00:36:58]  And it's just appealing to the most base appetites of the lowest sector of the population.
[00:37:07]  And so you can vote your way into degeneracy.
[00:37:09]  You can vote your way into poverty.
[00:37:11]  You can vote your way into tyranny, vote your way into all kinds of things.
[00:37:16]  But then, when the people finally wake up, the core of a nation, call them Christians, call them heritage Americans, whatever you want to define that is.
[00:37:28]  But when the core of the nation, who is producing everything and having their stuff taken and given to all the immigrants and all the poor and all the criminals and all this kinds of stuff, when they wake up and realize, oh, I live in a communist nation and they want out, they can't vote their way out.
[00:37:43]  It's not a matter of, like, well, let's just do.
[00:37:45]  You know, more tours on college campuses and inform the youth.
[00:37:49]  You know, the youths, they'll save us, you know.
[00:37:51]  And if we know that you can't, they are pouring in millions and millions a year of immigrants, and there's not enough heritage Americans that are even having children.
[00:38:04]  You could say, well, that's their own fault, you know, like, well, yeah, in some sense, it's licentiousness and a lot of bad ideology.
[00:38:13]  In another sense, people are not having children because they don't feel like they can afford to have children, they don't feel like they could provide.
[00:38:19]  For those children.
[00:38:20]  So there's a certain tipping point.
[00:38:22]  And when a nation gets there where the native core population, the heritage portion of that population basically just becomes a shriveled host and the parasite is now bigger than the host itself and it's barely on life support, the host barely still surviving.
[00:38:43]  At that point, you literally don't have the numbers to vote your way out.
[00:38:46]  So then the only way to get out is force.
[00:38:49]  And you try to use as little force as possible.
[00:38:52]  Right?
[00:38:52]  If you're trying to be ethical, you try to do it as much as you can according to the law.
[00:38:57]  Most importantly, you try to do it according to the word of God.
[00:38:59]  You try to have fair trials.
[00:39:00]  You have to, you know, all these things, but you're not going to simply be able to get out without through just simply voting.
[00:39:08]  You're going to have to fight.
[00:39:10]  You're going to have to fight your way out.
[00:39:12]  And anytime historically a nation has hit that point, that's if you're wondering, what do we call fascism in a nutshell?
[00:39:20]  What we call fascism is any time in history that the native working The upstanding population of a nation gets beaten down, robbed, and loses the simple majority within the nation to where they can't vote their way out, but they still decide, gosh darn it, we want to have a country.
[00:39:41]  That's fascism.
[00:39:43]  I like how Darryl Cooper summarized it this way.
[00:39:45]  He said, So I gave my narrow, historical, nerdy definition.
[00:39:49]  He said it this way Fascism is just the word used by freaks and degenerates when normal people realize the left won't stop unless it's forced to.
[00:39:57]  That's it.
[00:39:58]  Say it one more time.
[00:39:59]  Fascism is just the word used by freaks and degenerates when normal people realize the left won't stop unless it's forced to.
[00:40:07]  That's it.
[00:40:07]  That's fascism.
[00:40:09]  Yeah.
[00:40:09]  I would say, too, you're going to get called it.
[00:40:11]  You're a good Christian man, a good Christian pastor.
[00:40:13]  You're in the public square.
[00:40:15]  You're advocating for your country.
[00:40:16]  You're advocating for a form of Christian nationalism.
[00:40:18]  You will be called a fascist.
[00:40:19]  And there's a way of kind of doing this.
[00:40:21]  There's a, well, actually, the real fascists are Kamala Harris and the Democrats.
[00:40:26]  Right.
[00:40:26]  The real racists.
[00:40:28]  Right.
[00:40:28]  Or I'm not that.
[00:40:29]  They're going to call it you, it guys.
[00:40:31]  They're going to say it.
[00:40:32]  If we are going to defeat the left, they are going to bleat this word all the way till the setting sun.
[00:40:38]  They're going to call you it.
[00:40:39]  You have to let it have no effect on you.
[00:40:41]  Have your heart and your conscience clear before God and then say, I will do what it takes lawfully and biblically to have my country.
[00:40:49]  And there is not a word under the sun that you can hurl at me.
[00:40:54]  And I can go, Well, don't call me that.
[00:40:56]  I'm not that mean.
[00:40:57]  They're going to call you it.
[00:40:59]  Let it be water off a duck's back.
[00:41:00]  It is what it is.
[00:41:01]  Let me give a quick pastoral word here.
[00:41:03]  So, you're absolutely right.
[00:41:05]  They're going to call you a fascist no matter what.
[00:41:06]  And you have to be resolved in your heart and before the Lord with a clear conscience.
[00:41:11]  By God, we'll have our home again.
[00:41:13]  We're going to do it justly.
[00:41:14]  We're going to do it righteously, but it is going to require strength.
[00:41:19]  We're not going to be able to just go and change hearts and minds, you know, and have civil discussions.
[00:41:24]  That's what Charlie Kirk did, and they killed him.
[00:41:27]  Charlie Kirk tried to have civil discussions.
[00:41:30]  The left doesn't have arguments, so they don't have discussions.
[00:41:34]  But what the left does have instead of arguments is bullets, and they will use them.
[00:41:38]  And so, When you're at that point in a nation, and sadly, I would say we're at that point.
[00:41:43]  I don't think the right put us in this place, but the left did.
[00:41:45]  They drove us to this point.
[00:41:48]  And when you're at that point, you're going to have to fight back.
[00:41:51]  And when you fight back, you will be called a fascist.
[00:41:53]  And everything you said, Wesley, is so good.
[00:41:55]  You have to not let it affect you.
[00:41:57]  However, I want to add this admonition.
[00:42:04]  I remember a couple years ago when Christian nationalists was the term that everyone was throwing around.
[00:42:10]  And we basically all, you know, guys on the right who were Christian, had.
[00:42:15]  Had a decision in that moment, right?
[00:42:16]  To do the calculus and saying, okay, is this a term that I can own or is this a term that I would rather not pick up, right?
[00:42:25]  They keep hurling it at me.
[00:42:27]  Do I want to catch it and wear it or do I want to keep deflecting?
[00:42:32]  And when it comes to the term fascist, what Wes is saying, and I completely agree, is what you can't do is allow the rhetoric of the left to stop you or inhibit you.
[00:42:44]  So you must keep going.
[00:42:47]  That doesn't mean you have to wear it.
[00:42:49]  So, Christian nationalist, I remember, you know, it was about three years ago.
[00:42:52]  And when that started being thrown around, I was like, you know what?
[00:42:56]  I can work with that term.
[00:42:57]  That's not so bad.
[00:42:57]  That's not so bad.
[00:42:58]  And so I was like, yeah, sure.
[00:43:00]  I'm a Christian nationalist.
[00:43:01]  In fact, I kind of like it.
[00:43:03]  Yeah, I absolutely.
[00:43:04]  And then I ended up writing a whole statement with a group of guys on Christian nationalism and doing multiple broadcasts.
[00:43:09]  And so, Christian nationalism, I was like, I can work with that.
[00:43:12]  Fascist, again, the technical definition of a fascist, I do not believe is inherently.
[00:43:18]  Evil.
[00:43:19]  When you look at, if you put side by side the technical definition of a communist and the technical definition of a fascist, it's not as though, hey, you could be a good communist or a bad one.
[00:43:30]  No, baked into the definition itself, the technical definition of communism includes multiple tenets that directly contradict the law of God.
[00:43:39]  So there's no such thing as a good communist.
[00:43:41]  Fascism, you could be a bad fascist, be an ungodly, unrighteous, unbiblical fascist, or you could, with just looking at the technical definition, You could do fascism well.
[00:43:53]  That said, I don't feel about the term fascism the way I did about Christian nationalism.
[00:44:01]  Christian nationalism, I thought, you know what?
[00:44:03]  That one, I'm not just going to wear the hat metaphorically.
[00:44:05]  That one, I think we should literally make hats and physically, literally wear it.
[00:44:09]  I mean, it's great.
[00:44:10]  Christian nationalists, sign me up.
[00:44:13]  Whereas fascists, I think that there's just so much historical, just historical, Garbage attached with it.
[00:44:26]  And so then you have to decide, like what you were saying, you can't let the rhetoric of the left stop you.
[00:44:31]  Well, one way to let them stop you is cowardice.
[00:44:33]  They called me a fascist.
[00:44:34]  Oh, and so I'm going to stop because I don't want to be called a bad name.
[00:44:37]  Another way, though, to actually allow your enemies to inhibit you and slow you down, maybe not stop you, but slow you down, is to wear a particular label that inherently may not be evil in and of itself, but has so much baggage attached to it.
[00:44:52]  That you're now going to be spending 90% of your time saying, Well, technically, well, technically, well, technically, you know what I mean?
[00:44:58]  So, like, that's actually one way to be slowed down I'm not going to be slowed down by cowardice.
[00:45:03]  In fact, I'll wear the fascist label.
[00:45:05]  I am a Christian fascist.
[00:45:08]  But now on Twitter, like 12 times a day, you're being retweeted because you tweeted out, I am a fascist.
[00:45:18]  And so now you actually are, ironically, still being slowed down, not from apathy due to cowardice, but just the monotonous grind of constantly trying to win the battle for the dictionary and be able to own the term and be able to win the battle for who gets to define the term.
[00:45:39]  And all these kinds of, you know, all the clarifications and all the disclaimers.
[00:45:43]  So, in that sense, I just don't think it's worth it.
[00:45:45]  But I do want to go on record today saying, um, I do not believe that fascism in its root technical definition is inherently evil.
[00:45:53]  I don't believe that.
[00:45:54]  Um, I think that there have historically been guys who were fascists that were good, there are guys who were bad.
[00:46:01]  Um, and with most people throughout history, it's usually some of both.
[00:46:05]  Um, so I do think that you could hold to the tenets of fascism, um, but through a Christian view.
[00:46:13]  And doing things righteously as unto the Lord.
[00:46:17]  But I would not print out that label and wear it on my shirt because I think it's just going to create more problems than solutions.
[00:46:27]  What's going to have to happen in America is something new, too.
[00:46:30]  You can't LARP the South, for instance.
[00:46:32]  We need to go back to the South and we're going to fly the Confederate flag.
[00:46:36]  And I get it, there's a love for the South there.
[00:46:38]  But your Dixieland movement is not going to grow and swell.
[00:46:43]  What's going to have to happen in America?
[00:46:45]  It's going to be historically novel, and we're not going to be able to take the symbols and the ideas and just take them and just park them onto America.
[00:46:52]  For one, we're huge.
[00:46:53]  Like, we're just not the same as different movements.
[00:46:55]  We're not the size of Italy.
[00:46:57]  We're not the size of Germany.
[00:46:58]  So, those solutions are not going to work here.
[00:47:01]  It's going to be something new.
[00:47:02]  It's going to have a new vision.
[00:47:03]  It's going to have a new look.
[00:47:05]  And it can be kind of LARPy to be like, well, we take out our Confederate flag and do our reenactments, or we're Christian fascists and we're going to save this label.
[00:47:14]  It's going to be really tough to do.
[00:47:16]  Well, I would.
[00:47:17]  Prefer to put my energy and time into is not trying to grab something from the past, good, bad, or indifferent, and haul it into the future and do all this work of, no, no, guys, you have to understand this is what it really is.
[00:47:28]  We're going to have a new movement.
[00:47:30]  It's going to look different.
[00:47:31]  Christian nationalism is a great example.
[00:47:32]  That's why I like Christian nationalism.
[00:47:34]  It doesn't have its, that's well said, because in the true sense, there's, you know, the book of Ecclesiastes, there's nothing new under the sun.
[00:47:45]  Like in the true sense, there's not one tenet of Christian nationalism that wasn't already modeled by.
[00:47:52]  King David, Josiah, the founders of America, King Alfred, you know, multiple.
[00:47:59]  Like, so there's really nothing novel there, but words matter and names and labels matter all the more.
[00:48:08]  What's going to be the placeholder that names and describes your movement, your ideology?
[00:48:15]  And so having something that's not old and has baggage attached to it is incredibly advantageous.
[00:48:22]  And so Christian nationalism as a concept is not novel.
[00:48:26]  As a label is somewhat novel.
[00:48:28]  And that is, I think, an advantage.
[00:48:30]  Yep.
[00:48:31]  And I get guys, I understand they're saying, like, hey, we fought, we understand how the left gets violent and what the left does.
[00:48:38]  Like, we're literally seeing it.
[00:48:39]  Like, wow, a political assassination.
[00:48:41]  This was one of the things that precipitated the Spanish Civil War leading up to Franco's rise to power.
[00:48:46]  Political assassinations by the left.
[00:48:49]  Shocker.
[00:48:49]  I haven't seen this one before.
[00:48:51]  So I understand when people say, well, we have the playbook.
[00:48:53]  Totally.
[00:48:54]  Okay, do those things, but do them under the new name.
[00:48:56]  So use the playbook.
[00:48:58]  Be shrewd.
[00:48:59]  But rename the place.
[00:49:01]  Exactly.
[00:49:01]  Yeah.
[00:49:02]  And here's the deal.
[00:49:03]  Because if you try to run the same way, when you're dead and buried and six feet under dirt, you know, 100 years from now, historians will look back and say, oh, that was a fascist movement.
[00:49:13]  And they can call you that.
[00:49:14]  But let them call you that after you run the plays and win.
[00:49:18]  After you win.
[00:49:20]  That's right.
[00:49:20]  After you win.
[00:49:21]  Okay.
[00:49:22]  That was a great episode.
[00:49:23]  Super helpful for me.
[00:49:25]  What I love about our podcast is I'll sit down next to Wes and I'll be like, so what am I going to be learning about today?
[00:49:31]  And he's like, Joel, you're not supposed to be learning.
[00:49:35]  The audience is supposed to be learning.
[00:49:37]  But no, that was really helpful just to understand some of the history of fascism, some technical definition of the term, and then the way that it's wielded as a bludgeon today.
[00:49:48]  And then just at the end, I think some practical advice will really help a lot of our young male listeners to not just be stupid and ruin their life.
[00:49:57]  So, anything else you want to share?
[00:49:59]  I think that's it.
[00:50:00]  All right.
[00:50:01]  Well, thanks for tuning in.