NXR Podcast - THE FRIDAY SPECIAL - We’re Sorry Christian Nationalism Is Happening To You
Aired: 2025-09-06
Duration: 57:22


=== Beyond The Book Thoughts (05:46) ===

[00:00:00]  Leave us a five star review on your favorite podcast platform.
[00:00:04]  I get it.
[00:00:04]  It's annoying.
[00:00:05]  Everybody asks, but I'm going to tell you why.
[00:00:07]  When you give us a positive review, what that does is it triggers the algorithm so that our podcast shows up on more people's news feeds.
[00:00:16]  You and I both know that this ministry is willing to talk about things that most ministries aren't.
[00:00:21]  We need this content for the glory of God to reach more people's ears.
[00:00:45]  Okay, here we are.
[00:00:46]  This is the final episode of our 10 part series.
[00:00:49]  Myself, Pastor Joel Webben, and Dr. Stephen Wolf.
[00:00:51]  And we have been talking about all things Christian nationalism, following roughly the outline of your book, The Case for Christian Nationalism.
[00:00:59]  But it's not just following the book.
[00:01:01]  So, for those who read the book, I certainly wouldn't conclude that, oh, well, you know, been there, done that, bought the t shirt.
[00:01:08]  I think there's a lot of things beyond the book that we've discussed.
[00:01:10]  You can buy a t shirt, by the way.
[00:01:11]  Yeah.
[00:01:12]  Oh, really?
[00:01:12]  Oh, yeah, that's right.
[00:01:13]  Yeah.
[00:01:14]  Yeah.
[00:01:14]  So, you could buy the t shirt.
[00:01:15]  But, um, But I think we discussed things beyond just the scope of the book that were fascinating.
[00:01:21]  Yeah.
[00:01:22]  If nothing else, by virtue of the fact that I'm on the show also and can't help myself.
[00:01:26]  You can kind of say whatever you want.
[00:01:27]  It's your show, right?
[00:01:28]  You could talk about America, throw in the Antioch Declaration.
[00:01:33]  I did.
[00:01:33]  So, our last episode, we did the Antioch Declaration.
[00:01:36]  Probably our spiciest was episode four.
[00:01:38]  We got into Israel.
[00:01:40]  And somehow, somehow, you told me last night, you're like, Joel, I don't know.
[00:01:46]  Correlates.
[00:01:48]  And my response was, but were you not entertained?
[00:01:52]  But I tried to, in the fourth episode, we talked about Israel and I did a silly little trope and comparing it to Atlantis.
[00:01:58]  And so lots of fascinating things, I think many helpful things, all of them interesting things.
[00:02:05]  But in our final episode, in the name of the spirit of helpfulness, we wanted to get really practical and move away from the political philosophy, move away from some of the theology.
[00:02:16]  Some of that will be here, I'm sure, but we just wanted to try to raise and answer.
[00:02:21]  The question, okay, if I'm sold and Christian nationalism is the way to go, how do we do it?
[00:02:28]  Where do we go from here?
[00:02:30]  Because I think that's, you know, I'm a post mill guy, you're all mill.
[00:02:34]  But some of the post mill guys, not all of them, Ogden, they're post mill.
[00:02:38]  And I think they're more like me.
[00:02:40]  Andrew Isker is post mill.
[00:02:41]  He's more like me.
[00:02:42]  A.D. Robles.
[00:02:43]  But there are some post millennial guys who they have a really clear picture in their mind of Z.
[00:02:51]  And they know what's happening presently, A, but B, C, D, E, F, like there's not a whole lot of it, it's just, yeah, other than personal evangelism and maybe God sends revival.
[00:03:03]  And we get a bunch of enough regenerate hearts that everybody will just vote in the kingdom of God.
[00:03:12]  And that's one of the things I think that appealed to me with Christian nationalism.
[00:03:15]  I am still post millennial in my eschatology, but I liked Christian nationalism because of its.
[00:03:22]  Practical helpfulness.
[00:03:24]  Like I felt like the Christian nationalist guys were a little bit less of the persuasion of this is going to happen in 50,000 years.
[00:03:33]  Instead, the Christian nationalist guys were saying, we can't promise it's going to happen, but we think it could happen.
[00:03:40]  And by God's grace, there's actually clear steps that we can take.
[00:03:44]  It could happen even in our lifetimes.
[00:03:46]  And that's appealing to me.
[00:03:48]  So if we could talk about some of those steps that in our lifetime could make a serious difference for our kids.
[00:03:56]  Yeah.
[00:03:58]  This is the question of what to do next is that the hardest question for me to answer.
[00:04:05]  I wrote the book.
[00:04:06]  It's 10 chapters, an intro, and then I get to the end and I'm thinking, okay, they're going to want to know what do we do now?
[00:04:14]  Right.
[00:04:14]  You've read, you've somehow made it through 400 pages of this book.
[00:04:21]  Now I need something practical of what to do.
[00:04:24]  And I have to admit that I did not know what to say because it's.
[00:04:30]  It's a different question.
[00:04:31]  Like the question of whether or not, you know, there'd be civil government before the fall, like that's something I can tackle.
[00:04:37]  But then in the real world, with the complex dynamics, with the left controlling the institutions, with a lot of eager people to do something in their own individual sphere, their own vocation, it was something that I didn't, at the time, two years ago, I did not feel prepared to answer.
[00:04:57]  And even to this day, it's still a difficult thing to address.
[00:05:02]  And so when I wrote the epilogue, it was me just sitting down and, Typing out a bunch of thoughts.
[00:05:09]  And then I got 39 or 40 of them, and I said, That's all I got.
[00:05:15]  But in there, I did say, Hey, this is not just my thing.
[00:05:19]  Like, this is something the effective we need the political theorists, we need the foot soldiers, we need the popularizers, we need the average guy who's got a plumbing business or a landscaping business.
[00:05:31]  Like, we need those guys, we need the military officers, you know, we need all these people in their different, various vocations.
[00:05:37]  To think through what I do now.
[00:05:40]  So, I think a lot of what we're going to talk about now has to be contextualized at the individual level.

=== Finding Like-Minded Friends Online (06:54) ===

[00:05:47]  You have to think.
[00:05:48]  So, there are some thoughts I have, and I'm curious what you think as well.
[00:05:53]  I think that, like they say, there's an epidemic of a sort of loneliness.
[00:05:58]  Yes.
[00:05:59]  I don't know if that's a younger generation.
[00:06:02]  It's not something I've experienced.
[00:06:03]  I married kind of young.
[00:06:07]  But I know among a lot of young people, there is that sort of thing.
[00:06:10]  And there's also a Feeling of isolation, even if you're married, you discover Joel Webb and you start listening to him and you become convinced of patriarchy and you listen to me and you can become convinced of Christian nationalism.
[00:06:23]  And in your wife, it's harder to get her on board with that, especially if you're in your 40s or whatever it is.
[00:06:29]  And so people feel very isolated.
[00:06:30]  So, one thing I would say, and it's one thing I'm doing, is that every other week I meet with a group of guys with an email list that's like 20, 30 people.
[00:06:41]  And we discuss, ordinarily, we discuss an American Reformer article.
[00:06:46]  And we usually get off topic within five minutes.
[00:06:48]  But the idea is that we're coming together and we're generally like minded.
[00:06:54]  And we develop friendships and we learn what this guy does and what he does.
[00:06:58]  And you can use their services if he does this or that.
[00:07:00]  And you start the networks.
[00:07:02]  And then you find out that this guy knows this guy.
[00:07:05]  And so it's a way for you to gain friends of like minded people.
[00:07:09]  So you're not just stuck on the internet with, Your Anon friends, which is good, which is fine, but it's good to have it in person.
[00:07:17]  So if you're able and there's a location, just meet every other week.
[00:07:22]  So that's just a simple thing.
[00:07:23]  But in terms of the friendship, like that's been really great.
[00:07:28]  And you learn a lot like just the average guy, you learn like a huge amount from that guy.
[00:07:35]  So that's one piece of advice I'd give.
[00:07:38]  Yeah.
[00:07:39]  That's great.
[00:07:40]  Yeah.
[00:07:40]  We, Similar.
[00:07:42]  So, yeah, I would certainly agree with that.
[00:07:45]  You have to have relationships because so much of right now, among the new right, the dissident right, whatever, I think some of our friends in Moscow called it the dank right.
[00:08:01]  Not even right, but right.
[00:08:03]  Yeah.
[00:08:04]  The dank right with a T.
[00:08:06]  I actually like that one.
[00:08:08]  I'm happy to.
[00:08:09]  I was like, hey, that's pretty cool.
[00:08:11]  I mean, like dank memes.
[00:08:12]  That's an old internet thing.
[00:08:14]  So now they're.
[00:08:14]  Bringing it back.
[00:08:15]  Yeah.
[00:08:15]  I'm sorry.
[00:08:16]  Yeah.
[00:08:16]  I don't mind that.
[00:08:17]  But, anyways, whatever you want to call it, Christian nationalist, you know, our guys, our team, the people who, people like Moscow, or I'm sorry, Ogden, Orrin McIntyre, guys who like his show,
[00:08:32]  guys who listen to you, listen to me, listen to Contramundum, CJ, and Isker are, you know, so, anyways, if you're guys like that, my point is that there's a lot of camaraderie, there's a lot of collaborating, but so much of it really is online.
[00:08:50]  And so I'm just saying all this to affirm what you said.
[00:08:54]  That's not enough.
[00:08:56]  Now, I think that that is helpful.
[00:08:58]  I don't want to disparage that because, you know, people always say, like, Twitter's not real life, X is not real life.
[00:09:04]  And I know what they're saying.
[00:09:04]  I think that, in one sense, that is true, you know, because there's a whole swath of a type of person that I think is probably the majority of people who aren't on X. At the same time, though, I've made real life relationships from X. Like, it is real life, at least in some regard.
[00:09:22]  Because there's guys who I now have spent time with and I wouldn't know them otherwise.
[00:09:27]  And so it's like X is, I think, a great place, not only the Coliseum, you know, it's not really the public square, it's not a discourse, it's battle, it's war.
[00:09:37]  So it's the Coliseum.
[00:09:38]  You go there to fight.
[00:09:40]  And as Christians, we want to fight well.
[00:09:43]  But that doesn't just mean we want to fight, you know, in a moral fashion.
[00:09:47]  We want to fight well, meaning like we also would like to fight and win.
[00:09:51]  And so doing both, you know, fighting in a moral manner and fighting in a victorious manner, actually being.
[00:09:57]  Efficient and successful.
[00:09:59]  But another purpose I think of X is the fight and pushing ideas forward and pushing on the Overton window and permissible discourse, expanding that.
[00:10:10]  But also, it's a great place not for friendship, not to have friends, but to make friends.
[00:10:19]  And so I would say, you know, for guys who are on the dissident right who follow us, in some ways, it's less important your interactions with.
[00:10:30]  Stephen Wolf, you know, or Joel Webbin.
[00:10:33]  It's more so down in the comment thread, your interactions with each other, you know, and then following each other and then DMing each other and networking with each other.
[00:10:42]  This is why conferences matter.
[00:10:43]  All the content you can find online, you know, like who cares about, you know, like why do people go to conferences?
[00:10:49]  I think it's just to, even if it's just two days out of the year, is to remind yourself that you're not alone, that you're not crazy, that there's actually real flesh and blood people and it's not just bots on the internet, but like they represent real people who, Actually, agree with you.
[00:11:04]  It's to maintain sanity.
[00:11:05]  And so I think use X, my point is use X, use conferences, use these venues, but remind yourself that these things aren't sufficient to have friendship, but they can be highly effective to make friendship.
[00:11:24]  And then upon making the friendship, then create some other kind of context.
[00:11:29]  So, like I created, and I have plenty of friendships, but for the sake of others, I created a cohort.
[00:11:37]  And of guys who were following me, and some of the people who were most participating the most and commenting the most and sharing my posts the most.
[00:11:48]  And I found a way to kind of collect these guys and got about 100 of them and got their emails and reached out.
[00:11:55]  And now they're all and set up a trip.
[00:11:58]  And I said, hey, you know, like I'm willing to do if you guys are interested, and they were all eager, but like I'm willing to do a quarterly Zoom call with all of us where I'm not talking the whole time, I'm talking, but we're all able to correspond.
[00:12:11]  Two hour Zoom call once a quarter, and then interactions, you know, whether it's a group chat or whatever on a more daily basis, and then an annual trip.
[00:12:22]  And so we've got all these guys that are coming actually in January.
[00:12:27]  So by the time this airs, that will have already passed.
[00:12:31]  Um, but uh, but I'm excited.
[00:12:32]  Like, they're going to come and spend a weekend, come to church on Sunday, uh, arrive on Friday, and we're just going to, you know, hang out and smoke cigars.

=== Ambition And Christian Nationalism (15:01) ===

[00:12:41]  And there's not really much of an agenda.
[00:12:43]  We'll talk like, we'll talk about social media strategy, but then we're also going to talk like practically about like, you know, business and stuff.
[00:12:50]  And like, hey, so you're a lawyer, and this guy needs a lawyer, you know, or you like, uh, you're doing this thing, you're five years into your landscaping business, you're one year in, you know, and like, and yeah, so those kinds of things, um, So, anyways, I think you're right.
[00:13:03]  Friendship is key.
[00:13:06]  The social internet friendship is not sufficient, but it is a great springboard for making friends, but then finding context in real life for keeping friends.
[00:13:19]  So, doing some of that.
[00:13:21]  Yeah.
[00:13:22]  I think, yeah, along those lines, also, is helping each other out.
[00:13:32]  In, like, once you know these guys and you know their problems, you know, their financial or employment problems.
[00:13:43]  If you have a strong business, you should consider hiring that person.
[00:13:47]  Like, you could, if you know the guy and you know he's a good guy and he has a potential to be competent at that job, you might have another hire that you're looking at and you think that guy knows what he's doing, but he's also not a Christian, or he is a Christian, but he's not aligned.
[00:14:07]  Ideologically or politically, then hire the guy who you think has potential for that job.
[00:14:13]  Bring him in into that employment and build that up.
[00:14:19]  I mean, if someone is doxxed and they lose their job, find some way, if you can, to hire that guy.
[00:14:26]  If you know a guy who has a lot of potential to be a sort of influencer, but if he becomes an influencer, he'll get fired.
[00:14:35]  Well, maybe that's a good guy for you to hire so then he can become that.
[00:14:39]  He can do that with his own name and all that.
[00:14:42]  So, there's just all these different ways that if you think, like, think of all of the various resources you have.
[00:14:48]  I mean, the ability to employ a guy is a resource.
[00:14:51]  Huge.
[00:14:52]  And so, think about that.
[00:14:54]  And this also brings up the fact that, like, pursue, like you've emphasized before, like, pursue wealth, pursue your vocation, be the best you can be at that.
[00:15:04]  And see that as a means for you to help the common good, which is.
[00:15:11]  Opposed to the good we have, the sort of good we have today.
[00:15:15]  So, orient all those things around that.
[00:15:18]  Yep.
[00:15:18]  And also, that's how people did that.
[00:15:20]  That's how just like the average person who doesn't have fancy degrees or cameras and lights can make, I mean, really any sort of movement or any kind of change that happens, it happens because there's a lot of regular guys doing ordinary things.
[00:15:37]  Like, there's always the extraordinary.
[00:15:39]  Like, you got the big figure, you got the name, you got the great man.
[00:15:42]  But it's those little guys who are like, you know, being the foot soldiers for the movement.
[00:15:46]  Yeah.
[00:15:46]  It won't work without them.
[00:15:49]  Yeah.
[00:15:49]  One of the ways that I've, oh, real quick, I was going to say the same kind of concept of providing protection and impunity and those kinds of things at a vocational level.
[00:16:01]  If you are a business owner, by hiring a guy who it's not just a charity, like he will work hard, he'll do a good job, he's a good Christian man, but the world would hate him, not because he's objectively a bad guy, but the world will malign him.
[00:16:16]  And when I say the world, sadly, I mean many evangelicals as well.
[00:16:19]  They would just say, oh, he's a terrible person.
[00:16:21]  They might be the worst.
[00:16:22]  They might be the worst.
[00:16:22]  Probably will be.
[00:16:23]  Yeah.
[00:16:24]  So, you can provide, you can be a shield and provide protection as a business owner.
[00:16:30]  You can also do that, and it's sad that this even has to be done, but I think it bears saying.
[00:16:36]  You can also do that as a pastor.
[00:16:38]  It's like one way to push Christian nationalism further we need guys, you know, business owners on the right.
[00:16:47]  We also need pastors on the right.
[00:16:49]  And you would think that they, you know, of course, pastors are on the right.
[00:16:53]  Not really.
[00:16:54]  Yeah, like, like you need, you like, you actually need because here's the thing, like, um, Stephen Wolf needs a church, and I won't share any details, you know, but uh, but the fact that I'm not going to share any details illustrates the point that I'm making, right?
[00:17:07]  Like, that, um, I am a part of a church, by the way, you are, of course, of course, but my point is, yeah, right, yeah, but the fact, um, you could not go to any church, sadly, and that's I think that's terrible, that's a shame, um, so what I'm saying is that, like, we need Christian nationalist pastors, even, uh, so that.
[00:17:28]  Guys who are good Christian men, but by normie evangelical standards are viewed as monsters.
[00:17:38]  Now, hear me, it's imperative that when evangelicals call you a monster, that you actually are not.
[00:17:45]  There are real monsters in the world.
[00:17:47]  There are real men who are terrible men.
[00:17:51]  So don't be one of them.
[00:17:52]  But for those who are labeled as monsters, not just by the left, but even by conservative, neoconservative evangelical Christians, Those guys need churches.
[00:18:02]  So, those guys need to be employed.
[00:18:05]  So, we need Christian nationalist bosses, business owners.
[00:18:09]  They also need churches.
[00:18:10]  We need Christian nationalist pastors who are willing to say, I'll take that young guy and not that he can do whatever he wants, but I'm going to walk with him.
[00:18:21]  I'm going to shepherd him and I'm not going to crush him.
[00:18:24]  Crash him, yeah.
[00:18:26]  And he can be a member in good standing in our church.
[00:18:29]  So, that's another.
[00:18:31]  I think that's crucial.
[00:18:32]  And I've said it many times that.
[00:18:36]  And the pastor doesn't have to be an expert on politics, nor does he have to preach on politics all the time or all those things.
[00:18:43]  You prefer that he doesn't.
[00:18:44]  Well, I mean, I don't know.
[00:18:45]  If you remember my church, you'd probably be like, all right, Joel, nice try.
[00:18:48]  I've changed a little bit on that.
[00:18:49]  That's mainly because I thought most pastors are horrible in politics.
[00:18:53]  So, but you know, I've changed a little bit on that.
[00:18:56]  But I think one of the most important roles of a pastor is a chaplain in the military.
[00:19:06]  So the chaplain in the military is not in the chain of command.
[00:19:12]  As a chaplain, but he ministers to the people as they're doing their warfighting.
[00:19:17]  So he's not telling, he's not saying, you know, hey, saw gunner, go there and that's your target.
[00:19:23]  He is, once that, you know, that mission's complete, he's ministering to that guy.
[00:19:30]  And so I think a Christian nationalist pastor, a pastor involved in this, would make sure, first of all, that he would affirm.
[00:19:40]  And he would affirm their desire for a Christian nation.
[00:19:49]  He would affirm their work in whatever capacity they do it.
[00:19:53]  He'd say, What you're doing, it is good to desire and work for the heritage of faith that America has and to work for a Christian nation.
[00:20:02]  It is good.
[00:20:04]  What a lot of pastors do now, and you're very well aware of this, is they'll say, You care too much and you shouldn't care.
[00:20:11]  And it's a zero sum thing.
[00:20:13]  The more you care about politics, the less you care about Jesus.
[00:20:16]  And so they act as then a means to inaction, to actually stifling that courage and that desire to bring that about.
[00:20:27]  It's a war on masculinity and ambition, I think, in many ways, innately masculine.
[00:20:33]  And so part of being holy, to be a holy, righteous, virtuous Christian is to, we have conflated.
[00:20:44]  Righteousness, holiness with femininity.
[00:20:48]  Yeah.
[00:20:48]  And so, what does it look like for a man to be a good Christian man?
[00:20:53]  Well, it looks like having a quiet and gentle spirit, not being overly ambitious, being subservient, being submissive.
[00:21:04]  And like basically, you would just take every verse in the Bible that is directed towards women and prescribe that to men.
[00:21:10]  Yeah.
[00:21:11]  And so, my point is a Christian nationalist pastor, well, one thing, That, what is a Christian nationalist pastor?
[00:21:18]  One thing would be he's a masculine pastor, and by virtue of being a masculine pastor, he's a pastor who doesn't throw cold water on ambition, right?
[00:21:29]  Yeah, and and and by not doing that, you affirm their ambition for that.
[00:21:34]  But I think the good, the right pastoral role is saying, Look, I affirm that, but let me make sure that you're not that this is not um uh preventing you from.
[00:21:47]  The highest good that is Christ.
[00:21:49]  You can get caught up in the internet wars.
[00:21:52]  That's true.
[00:21:53]  And you can get so caught up that you no longer read the word, you no longer pray.
[00:21:58]  And the pastor should be I'm not telling you not to do those things, but make sure that your first heart is for eternal life.
[00:22:06]  It is for Christ.
[00:22:08]  So it's like that's like the chaplain thing.
[00:22:10]  It's like it's not only to encourage you in the work you know how to do, it's also to feed your soul.
[00:22:16]  It's reorienting you away from that work.
[00:22:19]  Not to disparage it.
[00:22:20]  So, dimension is good, but to also remind you are an eternal creature.
[00:22:25]  Right.
[00:22:25]  And it's not a, yeah.
[00:22:26]  So, they don't present it as a zero sum game.
[00:22:28]  You care more about politics.
[00:22:30]  If you care about politics, you don't care about Jesus.
[00:22:31]  It's saying it's good that you care about politics, but don't let that kind of cloud your chief end, which is eternal life in Christ.
[00:22:42]  And so, that's really important for a pastor.
[00:22:45]  And there are, I know young guys and they're in seminary now and they're kind of keeping their heads down.
[00:22:51]  We've talked about this a little bit.
[00:22:52]  Um, and that they see that like they see on the internet world a lot of young guys who are very ambitious and on fire for the political side, but they do fear that that is a problem for them with regard to spiritual things.
[00:23:08]  And they want to be the pastor who says, Yeah, great, do that for Christ, but also don't neglect your soul, right?
[00:23:16]  Um, in your pursuit of these earthly goods that are good, but don't lose focus on those other things, right?
[00:23:23]  It makes me smile, uh, because I don't know why, but I just couldn't get.
[00:23:27]  Out of my mind, the picture of John Doyle.
[00:23:30]  Do you know who that is?
[00:23:32]  Yeah.
[00:23:32]  Yeah.
[00:23:32]  So I've talked to him some offline and he's a good guy.
[00:23:36]  What's the show?
[00:23:37]  Heck Off, Call Me.
[00:23:38]  I think it is the name of his YouTube channel.
[00:23:41]  And he actually, he's super sharp and super young and super sharp and has some great stuff.
[00:23:48]  But I remember, like, in one video, it was leading up to, you know, he loves Trump and his instincts were right on Trump from the beginning all the way back in 2015.
[00:23:59]  But heading towards the election, he did like a video where he was like, look, your soul matters and this matters and that.
[00:24:08]  But he said, but right now it doesn't.
[00:24:11]  We're coming up to an election.
[00:24:12]  If you're not on Twitter 14 hours a day, meme posting, then you are not a patriot.
[00:24:18]  Get your.
[00:24:18]  He said, You need to be having 17 Anon accounts.
[00:24:23]  And he was saying it tongue in cheek, but it was really funny.
[00:24:26]  But he was sarcastically saying, Yeah, we need to be serious.
[00:24:32]  We need to win.
[00:24:33]  But he was acknowledging in a sarcastic way that you can't obsess.
[00:24:39]  You need to be disciplined.
[00:24:40]  You need to be ambitious, but you can't obsess.
[00:24:43]  One other thing I was going to say, so we need the business owners, we need the pastors.
[00:24:47]  I said this, I don't know if you remember this, but when we were at the Ogden conference, I got in trouble with this.
[00:24:52]  Right when we watched, I think I clipped it out, but I said, I want to win.
[00:24:57]  And I said, and I don't know how to win without seizing power.
[00:25:01]  And so I want to see Christians seize power, which is not inherently good or bad, but then wield power as a tool in righteous, good ways for the good.
[00:25:13]  And what does that look like?
[00:25:15]  Well, wielding power righteously looks like.
[00:25:19]  A blessing to your friends and crushing your enemies.
[00:25:23]  And everybody lost their mind.
[00:25:26]  But I said it like other guys say it, but I'll say things very, very matter of fact.
[00:25:32]  And I was like, yes, I want to crush my enemies.
[00:25:36]  And so then later I did a post because I got in trouble for it.
[00:25:39]  And so I did a post where I fleshed out, I can't remember, four or five different ways of crushing enemies in a Christianly manner.
[00:25:47]  And so I said, now when I say crushing enemies, I don't mean in the middle of the night cutting somebody's brake lines.
[00:25:53]  But what I do mean is depending on your vocation.
[00:25:56]  And like I think of, you know, 1 Corinthians, like each man should remain in whatever station of life when the Lord called him.
[00:26:01]  And I know that particularly that's pertaining to singleness and marriage and marital status.
[00:26:06]  But there's also a sense in which, like, even like Roman centurions, you know, and soldiers went to Jesus and they asked the question, like, you know, what is, like, hey, we want to be your disciples too.
[00:26:16]  What does Christianity mean for us?
[00:26:18]  And it's almost, you can almost read out of it, you know, it's not explicitly there, but you can almost put yourself in their shoes and they're probably expecting.
[00:26:25]  If I had to guess, they're probably expecting, like, it's almost like baked into the question is, um, can't like not just what it what does Christian life look like for Romans and uh uh soldiers, but it's almost like they're asking, um, is Christian life compatible with being like basically like, um, they're asking, you know, uh, not just how can we be Roman soldiers Christianly, um, but they're probably implicitly in that they're asking, do we need to quit our job?
[00:26:52]  And and the fascinating, you know, thing is that uh, Jesus' response is is a bit.
[00:26:57]  You know, surprising that he's like, he doesn't say, Oh, you're Roman soldiers.
[00:27:02]  Well, what does it look like to be my disciple?
[00:27:03]  It looks like, you know, giving your resignation and finding a better vocation.
[00:27:10]  But Jesus doesn't say that.
[00:27:12]  And then he begins to talk about how you can remain even in that station in a Christian manner and being content with your wages and not extorting and, you know, these kinds of things.
[00:27:23]  And so, what does it mean to crush your enemies as a blessing to the righteous and a terror to those who do evil?
[00:27:30]  Based off of vocation.
[00:27:31]  Well, if you're the civil magistrate, it means wielding the full weight of the law in a just way, according to and the ways that the law is compatible with the law of God against those who do evil.

=== Friend Or Enemy Distinction (15:18) ===

[00:27:42]  But then, if you're not a civil magistrate, that's you know, so that's in the legal system.
[00:27:46]  If you're not a civil magistrate as an employer, and you can economically crush enemies, even not just as an employer, but even just as a patron.
[00:27:55]  And where do we spend our money?
[00:27:57]  Right?
[00:27:57]  Like voting with your pocketbook.
[00:28:00]  Another way to like that I sought to crush my enemies was moving out of California and moving to Texas.
[00:28:05]  I thought, like, no, I don't want to give them another cent of my tax money.
[00:28:11]  I don't want it to go to California.
[00:28:12]  I want to see California change or implode.
[00:28:16]  And then I can send my grandkids back.
[00:28:17]  It's beautiful.
[00:28:18]  We'll take back over the land later on.
[00:28:21]  But they need to be knocked down a rung.
[00:28:24]  And so you can do it with geographically where you live.
[00:28:27]  And then politically, even thinking, I was like, okay, so you could leave California or New York or whatever and move to a deep red state, but you also, family should be taken into account and jobs and all those kind of things.
[00:28:38]  But if all things are equal, Why not move to a swing state?
[00:28:42]  I think it was like 46,000 votes in 2020 that Trump lost, you know, allegedly lost by.
[00:28:49]  If you look at four of the seven swing states that ended up going for Biden, four of them would have been enough in the electoral college for him to win.
[00:29:00]  And the combined popular vote in those four states, the combined margins of all four of them together that Biden, you know, allegedly won by was less than 50,000.
[00:29:09]  So it's, and yet there were 6 million Trump votes in California.
[00:29:14]  Compared to 12 million for Biden.
[00:29:16]  So it's like 6 million down the toilet.
[00:29:18]  And I was one of them because we left in December, right after I wasted my vote for Trump in California.
[00:29:25]  But my point is that's another way to crush your enemies move to Michigan or Pennsylvania and vote red.
[00:29:35]  Start a business and hire Christians and not liberals and leftists as a patron and not just how you do wages, but how you spend money, like patron.
[00:29:48]  Good businesses.
[00:29:50]  And if you're a civil magistrate, using the weight of the law as a pastor, letting not disparaging right wing young men in your church and like guys who believed what every Christian believed 100 years ago, not excommunicating them.
[00:30:06]  Like in all these ways, these are practical ways to work towards Christian nationalism.
[00:30:11]  Yeah.
[00:30:15]  Yeah.
[00:30:15]  And the topic of crushing your enemies, the thing about the right that is very masculine.
[00:30:20]  Is that we will just straight up say it.
[00:30:22]  Right.
[00:30:23]  Like we will say that politics is in part a friend enemy distinction.
[00:30:28]  It is.
[00:30:29]  We'll say that up front.
[00:30:30]  Whereas all the people who deny that, they practice that just as much.
[00:30:34]  Oh, yeah.
[00:30:35]  I mean, just recently that hit that hoax thing that this just happened on Amref.
[00:30:41]  Yeah, on American Reformer through James Lindsay.
[00:30:44]  It was, of course, dragged and it was actually embarrassing for Lindsay and all the people who promoted it.
[00:30:48]  Right.
[00:30:48]  Because he ended up changing like 90%.
[00:30:50]  Yeah, it was like 95% change.
[00:30:53]  It was just, it was silly.
[00:30:54]  Like a bunch of very large, even non Christian Twitter accounts just dragged him and took him out.
[00:31:00]  And there's even, it's even today I saw that there's like Tim Poole did a whole video on it attacking him.
[00:31:06]  So, yeah, American Reformer, it was actually a boost for them.
[00:31:09]  But nevertheless, all the people who say that they denounce a friend enemy distinction are practicing the friend enemy distinction.
[00:31:18]  They use a hoax from an atheist in which he lies about his identity.
[00:31:22]  Lies about the content, really, because it's really not the Communist Manifesto.
[00:31:27]  You don't change to look like it's right wing.
[00:31:29]  Right.
[00:31:30]  It's really just a right wing document with very little overlap with the comment with Marx's.
[00:31:36]  But the leftist group Babylon B wasted no time at all.
[00:31:40]  Like Seth Dillon and Joel Berry, they couldn't even contain themselves.
[00:31:44]  The bubbling up joy of like, yes.
[00:31:47]  It wasn't just those guys, it was like the middle level big Eva guys like Samuel James and Samuel Say and some other people who are very explicitly denounced that frenemy.
[00:32:00]  But they're willing, of course, they're willing to use that sort of tactic.
[00:32:03]  To take down their enemies.
[00:32:05]  So, even like just it's just the rule of thumb, it's just a solid principle that the people who most denounce friend enemy distinction are the least trustworthy people, or trustworthy in the fact that they will seek to crush their enemies.
[00:32:22]  And so the left is doing it, the liberals are doing it, the classical liberal Christians are doing it, the centrists, the moderates, whatever they are, center right, they're all doing it.
[00:32:33]  They just moralize about their.
[00:32:35]  Friend, but we're actually very clear up front about it.
[00:32:37]  And this is the thing about the riots, very masculine, saying this is what we're up to.
[00:32:41]  It's also honest.
[00:32:42]  The riots are honest.
[00:32:43]  Yeah.
[00:32:44]  And we do it through, like they say, it's unprincipled, but we do it through principled means.
[00:32:49]  Yes.
[00:32:50]  And so it's.
[00:32:51]  That's why I wanted to flesh out when I say crush your enemies.
[00:32:53]  Yeah.
[00:32:54]  If you're a civil magistrate, if you're a business owner, this is how you do it in the household.
[00:32:57]  This is how you do it in the church.
[00:32:59]  All, none of it is vigilantism.
[00:33:02]  None of it is like dragging people out of their cars or raiding their houses or.
[00:33:08]  You know, like doing illegal things or abusing the law, or none of it is, let's violate the Constitution.
[00:33:15]  And none of that stuff.
[00:33:17]  But you can do it.
[00:33:19]  Like, for instance, remember when, you know, somebody said, Charles Haywood did a good job on this, but like somebody said something about, like, oh, not only like I wish that Trump would the assassination attempt, I wish it had been successful and he had died, but also celebrated the person who did die, the death of a conservative Trump supporter.
[00:33:38]  And was like, good.
[00:33:40]  And it's like, this dude's a firefighter.
[00:33:42]  He's a husband.
[00:33:42]  He's a father.
[00:33:43]  And this person online celebrated it.
[00:33:45]  And they were an employee, I think, at Home Depot or something like that, or Lowe's.
[00:33:51]  And it went viral and they got fired.
[00:33:53]  And like clockwork, a bunch of people, even on the right, came out like, that's too far.
[00:33:59]  Like, I feel bad for them.
[00:34:00]  And Charles Haywood did a good job and said, no, you don't just need hearts for revival.
[00:34:05]  You need stomachs for revival.
[00:34:09]  This is lawful.
[00:34:10]  This person did not get beat up, this person wasn't assaulted.
[00:34:14]  In the proper sphere, their employer was shamed by the objectively shameful thing that this person said publicly, and the employer wanted to get away from it and fired them.
[00:34:29]  That's great.
[00:34:29]  The left has been doing that for decades.
[00:34:32]  And if the right doesn't have the stomach for it, well, the right does have the stomach for it, as we've talked before.
[00:34:37]  If it's a racist, they'll absolutely sell the stomach for it to do to their own.
[00:34:42]  Yeah, to do it to their own and to use the left to do it.
[00:34:45]  Basically, you.
[00:34:46]  Yeah.
[00:34:46]  I mean, we talked about that already, but yeah, they do have the stomach for it.
[00:34:51]  Right.
[00:34:51]  But it's when it's the left and it's like, oh, my moralism comes out and my moral witness thing.
[00:34:56]  It's always so much of the rhetoric of the evangelical moderate or third way or center right is really just moralizing to appeal to the left.
[00:35:06]  Yeah.
[00:35:07]  And so that moralizing can be if it's a left wing person who gets fired, you're going to then feel sad.
[00:35:13]  If it's a right wing person who gets fired, it's like they have it, they had it coming to them.
[00:35:16]  It's all their fault.
[00:35:17]  And now they can drive a truck or whatever.
[00:35:19]  I mean, it's, it's, It's the same thing every single time.
[00:35:22]  Yeah.
[00:35:23]  But anyway.
[00:35:24]  Yeah.
[00:35:25]  Well, I was going to say real quick with the friend enemy distinction, you know, Carl Schmidt, like, he's a Nazi.
[00:35:31]  Like, yeah, Nazis drink water and so do I. You know, he's right.
[00:35:35]  He's right about that, the friend enemy distinction.
[00:35:37]  This is what I've noticed, though.
[00:35:38]  The people who deny the friend enemy distinction, as you already said, I just want to add one extra component because it's like an unbreakable rule.
[00:35:47]  It's always true and it's helpful to be aware of.
[00:35:50]  The people who deny the friend enemy distinction, and they say, that's a terrible thing, and we deny that.
[00:35:55]  Number one, they practice it.
[00:35:56]  Religiously to a T.
[00:35:58]  So they do practice a friend enemy distinction while publicly denying it.
[00:36:02]  And their public denial of the friend enemy distinction does not mean they don't practice it.
[00:36:08]  They do.
[00:36:09]  What you can take away from that as a guarantee, you can take it to the bank, is if they deny the friend enemy distinction, it doesn't mean that they don't actually practice it.
[00:36:18]  All it means is that they do have friends, they do have enemies, and you are the enemy.
[00:36:24]  That's important to know.
[00:36:26]  So every time Samuel Say, who I like Samuel Say, Crucial.
[00:36:29]  I do.
[00:36:29]  Like, I spoke at a conference with him.
[00:36:30]  He's a brother in Christ.
[00:36:31]  We'll worship Jesus together in eternity.
[00:36:35]  He's a great guy.
[00:36:37]  I wish, you know, slow to write.
[00:36:39]  I wish he was a little slower to write, you know.
[00:36:42]  But he's a great guy, but his instincts are wrong and certainly politically wrong.
[00:36:47]  But he very much practiced, like, as soon as this article came out, you know, or not article, but the event unfolded that James Lindsay had pulled a fast one on American Reformer with the Communist Manifesto, even though he changed it 95%.
[00:37:01]  You know, a guy who literally his handle is slow to write.
[00:37:05]  It was like 15 minutes, yeah, you know, that he came out on Twitter.
[00:37:09]  And probably most of these guys, and he literally said in a mocking manner because he's always like, his whole thing is like, I'm very respectful.
[00:37:16]  And you know, even when I disagree, I'm very respectful, sir.
[00:37:18]  He always says, like, he who, like, it's one thing to speak that way, but he like will type out on Twitter, uh, uh, dear sir.
[00:37:25]  I didn't, and I'm like, who says sir on Twitter, you know, but but anyways, but with this one, there's no sir.
[00:37:30]  It was, uh, it was literally, it was mocking.
[00:37:32]  It was, he came out in the post, I can't quote it exactly, but it was something like, It was retweeting James Lindsay and was like, protect this man at all costs.
[00:37:40]  You know, he exposed the woke right and made them look like the fools that they are.
[00:37:44]  And again, this is without getting any of the facts.
[00:37:47]  Like, he ultimately made himself a fool.
[00:37:49]  Has somebody read the Communist Manifesto?
[00:37:51]  Maybe he has.
[00:37:52]  And if he did, it was in college.
[00:37:54]  I haven't.
[00:37:55]  Most of these guys, like laughing at this, wouldn't even know the first thing of what it says.
[00:38:01]  Yeah.
[00:38:01]  They think, oh, James Lindsay's back at it again.
[00:38:03]  But in the end, it's just embarrassment to them.
[00:38:06]  But yeah, these guys wouldn't have caught it.
[00:38:08]  But that's my point the average person would not have caught it.
[00:38:11]  Right.
[00:38:12]  And even like the, like people use the opening line or some version of the opening line of the Comics Manifesto in writings all the time.
[00:38:21]  I've done it before when I've written something.
[00:38:23]  It's everyone knows it.
[00:38:24]  They know it's kind of a little catchy little phrase.
[00:38:28]  And then, and so using that's not out of the ordinary.
[00:38:30]  So it's, so then if you change 95% of the rest, you're not going to notice it, even if you're a Marx expert.
[00:38:37]  Right.
[00:38:37]  So.
[00:38:38]  But the point is, everybody practices the friend enemy distinction.
[00:38:41]  Those who deny it do practice it.
[00:38:44]  And the only thing that they're confirming is that you're their enemy.
[00:38:49]  Yeah.
[00:38:50]  And they will waste no time to mock you, to expose whatever they think is a failure for you.
[00:38:58]  I mean, that's part of the reason why my clips go viral.
[00:39:02]  But there's a two part process to it.
[00:39:04]  One is because of actual leftists that really hate Christ and hate conservatives and hate Christians.
[00:39:11]  But if it was just that, I, I, people wouldn't really know.
[00:39:15]  They wouldn't know who, who I am.
[00:39:16]  They, they wouldn't have heard of Joel Webbin.
[00:39:18]  It's a two prong approach.
[00:39:20]  Right wing watch or Mother Jones or something like that.
[00:39:22]  You know, it's leftist.
[00:39:23]  They pick me up.
[00:39:25]  But what gives it staying power to where I don't just go viral for an afternoon, but for a week or a month is all the Joel Berrys and Samuel Says and those guys who then retweet Right Wing Watch.
[00:39:41]  These leftists that hate Christ and hate Christians and wish we were dead, I joyfully will side with them if it means crushing Joel Webbin because they do have enemies.
[00:39:52]  They do have friends.
[00:39:53]  The problem is they just have the wrong ones.
[00:39:55]  Right Wing Watch.
[00:39:56]  Friend, Joel Webbin, Christian pastor, enemy.
[00:40:00]  Yeah.
[00:40:01]  Yeah.
[00:40:02]  So, the other thing I wanted to mention before our time's out is if you have aspirations, so younger guys, if you're in high school or you're in college, it's not necessarily wise for you to jump out into the fray with your own name and start doing these things.
[00:40:21]  That's good.
[00:40:22]  What actually would be best is if you say, I want to be a, Or politician, or I want to be a pastor, or I want to be a military officer, or I want to be this and that.
[00:40:33]  It's wise for you, if you have an anonymous account, to have good OPSEC, but also have that long term goal that eventually I will be a leader in an institution and you'll have built up a network of like minded people.
[00:40:50]  That's one of the things just Christians, broadly speaking, especially Protestants, have not done well on.
[00:40:57]  And if they have not entered the institutions and they have not entered in the institutions, one as Protestants, as Christians, and they have not prepared to lead for the right.
[00:41:12]  And so pursue that.
[00:41:13]  Like that should be, if you're in seminary right now, you are among a bunch of seminary professors who could be very good at what they do, but they're not going to understand if you start bringing up Christian nationalism and other stuff you and I say in class.
[00:41:31]  In ways that position you on that side, it's going to be harder for you then to get into that presbytery or whatever church, unless you're Baptist, maybe Baptist have an easier time, I don't know.
[00:41:41]  But especially in the Presbyterian world, you have to get it, you have to come under the care and eventually get licensed and get a call.
[00:41:51]  And that the presbytery has a significant role in that.
[00:41:55]  And so you kind of, you can be black, you don't have to lie.
[00:41:58]  Yeah.
[00:41:59]  You don't have to lie.
[00:42:00]  And this has happened to people.
[00:42:02]  Where they're actually ministers and then something happened and they're out, and now getting back in to that denomination into a presbytery is extremely difficult because they say we don't want that sort of person in.
[00:42:14]  So I'm not saying lie, I'm just saying you have to be the kind of normie guy for a while.
[00:42:23]  But not just seminary and in the church, but also in all other fields, vocations.
[00:42:30]  You want to be a white collar guy, you want to get in the corporate world.
[00:42:33]  Now, you want to do business, you're going to have to probably lay a little while.
[00:42:35]  So be smart, be wise.
[00:42:36]  Especially if you want to go into politics.
[00:42:38]  I've thought about that.
[00:42:40]  It's too late.
[00:42:41]  Yeah, I feel like it would be cool to run for public office.
[00:42:46]  And I'm like, wait a second, I'm Joel Webbin.
[00:42:48]  I have like a history, internet history, a mile long of all the things.
[00:42:54]  Yeah, yeah, we both do.
[00:42:55]  Like it's possible, but the Overton would have to shift a great deal, you know, for Joel Webbin to run for public office.

=== Paths To Public Office (05:41) ===

[00:43:01]  I've thought like locally, I wanted to get on development boards.
[00:43:05]  School boards, things like that.
[00:43:07]  And even if these people were willing, I'd hesitate because I'd be like, well, I don't want to harm the institution because of my name at this point.
[00:43:15]  Right.
[00:43:16]  But I wouldn't be considered even for voluntary boards at my local, in my county, that if I wanted to, let alone county commissioner or anything like that, for that reason.
[00:43:26]  And that's the sort of fate someone you and I have to deal with that we have to be the people with the microphones or writing.
[00:43:34]  Because somebody has to be outspoken.
[00:43:35]  Because someone else does have to do it.
[00:43:36]  Right.
[00:43:36]  Someone has to.
[00:43:37]  We don't need everyone outspoken.
[00:43:38]  Not everyone has to do what we do.
[00:43:41]  And that's good.
[00:43:43]  That means that the other people can kind of lay low and get in, get the credentials, get the.
[00:43:49]  Institutional competence that's a big thing, too.
[00:43:51]  Is like you can't just show up to like I'm going to be in the school board or I'm going to be in this, you don't know anything.
[00:43:58]  Like, you have to work up the ranks.
[00:44:01]  Um, even if you like suddenly go get on like a state legislature, there's a lot to learn.
[00:44:07]  Like, if you don't already have an involvement in politics, that immediate gap in knowledge, even if you have all of your ideological political principles in a row, now you're in a whole new institution with its own rules, its own dynamics, its own culture, and You have to be able to navigate that.
[00:44:25]  So, yeah.
[00:44:26]  So, just learn your job, learn your vocation, learn the institution, and just wait for your time to come.
[00:44:31]  Right.
[00:44:31]  You know, that's super important because I've had to tell young guys aspiring, you know, particularly to pastoral ministry, because they're like, well, you're outspoken and you're a pastor.
[00:44:44]  And they think that that's like the norm.
[00:44:46]  And what they don't realize is that, like, I have to remind them and say, like, but guys, you don't like, one, you probably don't want to be me.
[00:44:55]  And two, You have to recognize that even if you want to be me, your chances are slim.
[00:45:02]  The path that I took is a very unorthodox path.
[00:45:06]  And I don't mean theologically, but I didn't go to seminary.
[00:45:13]  I'm not a part of any denomination.
[00:45:16]  I never got a phone call from a church saying, hey, we'd like for you to come.
[00:45:20]  I had to plant a church twice now, starting from my living room with zero pay.
[00:45:28]  It's literally just the grace of God and the fact that I happen to be gifted in terms of communication.
[00:45:33]  And that, like, I was able to speak in such a way and use, you know, media to eventually draw people to where I ended up being successful.
[00:45:44]  And I was able to accumulate enough critical mass.
[00:45:46]  But the average guy, like, there's a reason there are certain designated paths.
[00:45:51]  Like, there are paths to be a doctor, there are paths to be an engineer, and there are paths to be a pastor.
[00:45:57]  And sure, there are maybe some exceptions.
[00:46:01]  Not so much, hopefully, not with the doctor thing, but with the pastor thing.
[00:46:05]  But they're exceptions.
[00:46:08]  The exceptions are the exceptions.
[00:46:09]  The norm is the norm.
[00:46:11]  You don't want to make the footnote the headline and the headline the footnote.
[00:46:14]  And so most pastors go to seminary, they get an MDiv, they get a call from a pre existing church.
[00:46:21]  Most church plants fail, they're not successful.
[00:46:24]  So you're actually getting a call.
[00:46:27]  Somebody wants you in a pre existing church.
[00:46:29]  So you have to be accepted by a seminary, finish a seminary.
[00:46:32]  If you're not Baptist, then you have to be ordained.
[00:46:35]  Um, then you have to get an external call from you know, from and so for all those things to happen, um, like and people say, Well, okay, so Joel, you did it, you know, but as a church planter and as a Baptist and independent, uh, but other guys have done it.
[00:46:48]  Joel, you're not the only guy, you know, like Doug Wilson did it and he's a Presbyterian, yeah, he created his own Presbyterian, you know, like yeah, Doug Wilson is an exception, also.
[00:46:58]  You just have to write it.
[00:46:58]  And I'm not even dogging that.
[00:46:59]  That's, you know, fine, whatever.
[00:47:01]  But like, I'm just saying these are extraordinary examples.
[00:47:04]  And to think like, well, Joel did it.
[00:47:05]  Or you might think of Ogden.
[00:47:07]  It's like, well, Ogden did it.
[00:47:09]  Yeah.
[00:47:09]  But Brian took over a Calvary Chapel church in extraordinary circumstances.
[00:47:16]  He was the music intern guy as a 17 year old, I think, I believe, very young.
[00:47:24]  And was like, you know, part time staff as like a pastoral slash music intern worship guy.
[00:47:29]  And then in his early 20s, There was no other leaders present in the church.
[00:47:35]  There was a sudden and tragic moral failure from the pastor.
[00:47:41]  Brian was the only guy on the scene.
[00:47:44]  And Calvary Chapel happens to be one of those denominations where the individual church actually owns the building and gets to make the decisions.
[00:47:50]  There's no diocese or anything above it in an ecclesiastical formal sense.
[00:47:54]  And so Brian was, he just happened to be the only guy available.
[00:47:57]  And that's how he got his pastoral gig.
[00:48:00]  But that is not the norm.
[00:48:02]  And so my point is like every single one of these guys that you look at, it's like, well, he did it.
[00:48:07]  He did every single one of them, an exception, yeah.
[00:48:10]  But for every one of those, there's a hundred other pastors that went the normal route of seminary, getting a call, being examined, being ordained.
[00:48:19]  And uh, and if they were out as outspoken as Brian or Eric or me or you, or um, they wouldn't have a snowball's chance in hell.
[00:48:28]  Well, I mean, and I'm I'm a I guess I would be a sort of exception as well, is that I'm older than most of you guys, and I became I'm not famous but like known in a certain circle when I was like.

=== Playing The Long Game (07:44) ===

[00:48:42]  38, 39.
[00:48:43]  And before that, I spent a good deal in school.
[00:48:48]  But yeah, I was working, I was in the army.
[00:48:51]  And they think, well, Wolf can somehow make an income.
[00:48:53]  Somehow he survives.
[00:48:54]  No one actually knows how I make my money.
[00:48:58]  But it's largely passive income from the times I was working full time.
[00:49:03]  Yeah, selling books.
[00:49:04]  Yeah, there's a lot of money in books.
[00:49:05]  Yeah.
[00:49:06]  Every time you buy a book, I get to feed my kid half an ice cream or a pack of ramen noodles.
[00:49:11]  Yeah.
[00:49:12]  Yeah.
[00:49:12]  Or like a, not even a pack of gum.
[00:49:14]  Anyway.
[00:49:15]  Didn't you say it was like less than a dollar a book?
[00:49:17]  It's, I mean, it depends on who's buying it.
[00:49:19]  If it's through Amazon, it depends on who's buying it.
[00:49:21]  And it's actually more than that now, is, you know, but anyway, um, anyway, uh, sources.
[00:49:27]  But for me, I can do what I do because I have passive income from, I own like four houses.
[00:49:32]  So that's now everyone knows.
[00:49:35]  So I own, I own houses and I have rental income from that.
[00:49:37]  And so I'm, I'm that where I can do what I want.
[00:49:42]  I could, I could spend half my day outside building a deck or chopping wood and then the other, Part of the day, you know, typing or whatever, or doing these things.
[00:49:50]  So I'm kind of like that unique situation.
[00:49:52]  So, yeah, people shouldn't say, well, you know, Wolf can write these things and make money.
[00:49:55]  So, yeah, you have to really then, for the vast majority of people, you have to expect that you're going to be 38, 40, 45.
[00:50:05]  Like you have to play the long game.
[00:50:07]  Yes.
[00:50:08]  Just like, I don't know if I played a long game, but that's the fact.
[00:50:12]  I'm 41.
[00:50:12]  Yeah.
[00:50:13]  You're 30 something, 38.
[00:50:15]  Okay.
[00:50:15]  So, yeah.
[00:50:18]  In order to do these things, you have to do the work.
[00:50:20]  You played the long game intentionally.
[00:50:23]  You were quiet.
[00:50:24]  I played the long game unintentionally in the province of God by simply being dumb and not coming into these views until later in life.
[00:50:36]  Okay.
[00:50:37]  So the guys we're talking to are, we're assuming guys who have come into these views now, they're going to have to sit on them.
[00:50:43]  Yeah, right.
[00:50:44]  And that's harder because I didn't come into these views until, I don't know, several years ago.
[00:50:49]  So.
[00:50:50]  Yeah.
[00:50:50]  So if you're 22, it's hard, but just like that anonymous account is the best you got at this point.
[00:50:56]  And just play the game for a while.
[00:50:58]  Right.
[00:50:59]  Don't be stupid.
[00:51:00]  And that's all.
[00:51:01]  Don't lose your job.
[00:51:02]  It's not compromise.
[00:51:04]  It's just strategy.
[00:51:05]  It's true.
[00:51:07]  It's innocent as doves, but as cunning as serpents.
[00:51:10]  We're called to be like that.
[00:51:12]  And one of the reasons why the left always wins is, for one, they don't have any category of compromise because they don't have any virtues or, you know, so there's no way to compromise, you know, if you're just evil.
[00:51:26]  But conservatives, Obviously, we have standards, we have principles, we have virtues.
[00:51:30]  Like, we're held accountable under God.
[00:51:32]  We're all going to have to stand before Him one day.
[00:51:34]  So, we're not saying, so, you know, lie, cheat, and steal.
[00:51:37]  We're not saying that, but we are saying that there is still a very clear line.
[00:51:41]  There's, I would say, even a pretty wide chasm between deceit and dishonesty and sin versus strategy, shrewd, wise.
[00:51:54]  And there is a way of being, having a clear conscience before God and being a righteous, good man.
[00:52:01]  And being shrewd without being a coward.
[00:52:04]  That doesn't make you a coward.
[00:52:05]  Wanting to feed your family does not make you a coward.
[00:52:08]  Right.
[00:52:09]  So, and there's ways to have conversations with normie people where you just ask questions and you say, I heard this or I read this.
[00:52:19]  And what do you think about that?
[00:52:22]  And there's ways to do to have a public presence that doesn't damage you long term.
[00:52:28]  Right.
[00:52:28]  Right.
[00:52:28]  And the same thing in a seminary class.
[00:52:30]  Like you could be like, you know, well, Yeah, Calvin says this in his institutes about the civil magistrate.
[00:52:35]  Doesn't this argument seem to work, or don't you think your argument is this and that?
[00:52:39]  And that doesn't, you know, that you're just being a good seminary student at that point and dealing with arguments.
[00:52:45]  So there's, so you don't have to come out and say, Well, Wolf said this.
[00:52:48]  And Wolf is, of course, you know, he's got a PhD and don't say that, please.
[00:52:52]  But, but yeah, anyway, yeah, there's, there's smart ways to go about conversations both online, you know, Facebook, Twitter without damaging your, your potential long term.
[00:53:03]  Just, just imagine that you're, Your potential, like most people, and this is just true for even the corporate world, like you hit the top in your 40s or early 50s, and most of the time you're just playing the game.
[00:53:14]  And the same thing on the political side as well, just play the game till you get that opportunity.
[00:53:19]  Right.
[00:53:21]  And that's a great place to land the plane because the one thing I wanted to add to that is not only are we advocating for a virtuous, uncompromising position of waiting and playing the game.
[00:53:38]  But you said it briefly for just a moment.
[00:53:40]  It's not just that this is wise to wait so that you can have maximum leverage later.
[00:53:45]  Once you've arrived and you have institutional power, you've accumulated wealth, and then you can be bolder and more pointed and outspoken.
[00:53:53]  So it's not just that this is necessary now, awaiting now, so that I can be loud and effective with power later.
[00:54:01]  It's not just that.
[00:54:02]  But in passing, what you said briefly is it's actually a win win.
[00:54:06]  It's a double win because.
[00:54:09]  Right now, even though you have to be tempered, and you as a young man may be frustrated by that because you'd like to be more outspoken, you have to be tempered.
[00:54:16]  Well, here's the thing your temperance now, not only is it patience that will set you up better for later, but your temperance now is actually oftentimes going to be used in the providence of God to win people, not just later, but now that me and you can't win.
[00:54:32]  So you're listening to Stephen Wolf and Joel, and the normie hates us and won't give us the time of day.
[00:54:38]  They're not going to listen to us, but you're listening to us.
[00:54:41]  But then, intentionally, for your own self preservation, are refusing to say things exactly like us.
[00:54:48]  So, you're putting a normie filter on Wolf and Joel and other guys, but you're in a crafty, careful way disseminating information that you've heard from us.
[00:55:03]  And you're doing it for two reasons one, to self preserve, because you can't oust yourself so that you can be effective later, but also in being filtered now.
[00:55:12]  You're able to reach a whole market of people, the majority of people who you and I can't actually, they won't give us the time of day, but they're listening to you because you filtered it.
[00:55:22]  So you filtered it to preserve yourself, but it actually becomes a great benefit to them because now they're hearing distilled versions of Wolf and Joel and these kinds of thinkers.
[00:55:34]  And it's starting the thought process for them.
[00:55:36]  And then turns out, you know, it may take six months, it may take two years, but all of a sudden, your normie buddy.
[00:55:42]  Is uh, you know, six months later, he's he's watching the lone pool work, you know, and like right, you're preparing the ground that there's people who are so deeply in like their political socialization that it it it takes time, like, there's there's different, yeah, this is this is why I don't actually go after people who are more, I guess, more to my left.
[00:56:03]  It's like there's a there's a there's a way to there's a pipeline, yeah, there's a way to kind of cultivate ideas in someone who would be very have a kind of a weak.
[00:56:15]  Self awareness and weak will to deal with those, that you can start kind of kindling that so that they can, um, that so they can later on be receptive, right?

=== Cultivating Hope For The Future (00:55) ===

[00:56:26]  Yeah, okay, all right.
[00:56:28]  Well, thank you guys for tuning in.
[00:56:29]  We hope that this uh series has been helpful for you, especially this final episode, trying to be a little bit more practical and uh, even pastoral.
[00:56:39]  We hope that it's a blessing to you, and we hope that, um, well, if you can, in keeping with everything we've said thus far, don't get yourself in trouble, but.
[00:56:48]  In the instances where you can, we hope that you would share some of the content with a friend.
[00:56:52]  So, thanks for stopping by, and we'll see you in future series that we do with Right Response Ministries.
[00:56:58]  And also to plug Wolf, of course, you can buy his book, The Case for Christian Nationalism.
[00:57:03]  But you also are starting some of your own media and podcasting.
[00:57:07]  Where can they go?
[00:57:08]  Yeah, so it's the Lone Bullwork on YouTube.
[00:57:10]  I think it's the Lone Bullwork with Stephen Wolf.
[00:57:13]  So, go on there, subscribe to that.
[00:57:15]  That'd be great.
[00:57:16]  Cool.
[00:57:16]  Also, Twitter, you'll just search Stephen Wolf, and I'll probably be the first guy there.
[00:57:20]  Cool.
[00:57:20]  All right.
[00:57:21]  Well, thank you guys.
[00:57:21]  God bless.