NXR Podcast - THE LIVESTREAM - FRIDAY MEGASTREAM: Shillsdale College and Should Protestants Partner with Catholics?
Aired: 2025-08-22
Duration: 02:11:58


=== Why We Need Five Star Reviews (15:04) ===

[00:00:00]  Leave us a five star review on your favorite podcast platform.
[00:00:04]  I get it.
[00:00:04]  It's annoying.
[00:00:05]  Everybody asks, but I'm going to tell you why.
[00:00:07]  When you give us a positive review, what that does is it triggers the algorithm so that our podcast shows up on more people's news feeds.
[00:00:16]  You and I both know that this ministry is willing to talk about things that most ministries aren't.
[00:00:21]  We need this content for the glory of God to reach more people's ears.
[00:00:31]  So, we had Dr. Taylor Marshall join the show on Wednesday, just 48 hours ago.
[00:00:36]  We talked about Catholicism, we talked about Protestantism, we talked about immigration, all sorts of different things.
[00:00:42]  We even talked about in the beginning dispensationalism and the red heifers and all the Zionist crazy things that we see happening in our world today.
[00:00:51]  And in typical fashion, reformed Twitter absolutely lost their minds and cannot believe that I would have a Roman Catholic join us on the show.
[00:01:03]  Immediately, I began to be anathematized by those who are Protestant and Reformed.
[00:01:10]  And so I want to respond to that today.
[00:01:12]  Let me give you just a sample.
[00:01:13]  There were tons of guys who came out of the woodwork.
[00:01:16]  Here's one example.
[00:01:17]  This is from an account on Twitter called JC Ryle.
[00:01:21]  Okay?
[00:01:22]  And he says this Who is the biggest enemy of the gospel and has led countless millions into the lake of fire throughout the ages?
[00:01:31]  Rome.
[00:01:33]  Islam may kill the body, but it cannot kill the soul.
[00:01:37]  Rome kills souls, and do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul, but rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
[00:01:48]  A quote from Holy Scripture from the book of Matthew.
[00:01:51]  Here's my response, and I want everybody to hear this loud and clear.
[00:01:55]  This is my definitive position on the matter, and some of my Protestant brothers who I love need to wake up.
[00:02:03]  I wrote back this Islam doesn't kill the soul.
[00:02:07]  Are you serious?
[00:02:08]  And you're a Christian?
[00:02:10]  Islam sends souls to hell by the millions every year.
[00:02:14]  Wake the hell up.
[00:02:15]  It's not the 1600s anymore.
[00:02:18]  The reformers, of whom I love and cherish, lived in a world where Christendom ruled the day.
[00:02:25]  We live in a day when Christendom is but a faint shadow of her former glory, barely on life support.
[00:02:33]  There were no Muslim hordes turning hundreds of cathedrals into mosques when Christendom was ruling.
[00:02:40]  There was no nation state of Israel with Jews doing everything in their power to start World War III when Christendom was reigning.
[00:02:49]  There were no drag queen story hours with tens of thousands of sodomites attempting to indoctrinate our children and weaponize the state to take them away from you when Christendom was radiant.
[00:03:02]  Catholicism was the dominant threat to the original reformers because it was the only threat to the reformers.
[00:03:10]  But now we are crushed by Jewry.
[00:03:13]  By Islam, secular humanism, gay race communism, crony capitalism that makes it where your children will never own a home, and on and on and on.
[00:03:24]  And to top it all off, millions upon millions of our children have been slaughtered in their mothers' wombs.
[00:03:31]  And you pick Catholics as your arch enemy?
[00:03:34]  Did your parents not teach you shame?
[00:03:37]  If Calvin and Luther were here today and briefed on everything that has occurred in the last 500 years since they were gone, Rome would not.
[00:03:47]  Rome would be so far down their list of concerns that it wouldn't even make the top 50.
[00:03:53]  I will defend the Protestant faith.
[00:03:55]  I will defend the doctrines of grace.
[00:03:57]  I will defend the gospel of Jesus Christ.
[00:04:00]  But any Catholic who is willing to lock arms with me to stare down the coming hordes of demons will have my aid.
[00:04:09]  The Reformed today are like dogs chasing a car.
[00:04:13]  We wouldn't even know what to do with it if we caught it.
[00:04:17]  Going further, I said that they are like people, the Reformed, dressing up and reenacting the Civil War year after year, the true epitome of LARPing.
[00:04:28]  Chasing a mouse, meanwhile their own children rest in the jaws of lions.
[00:04:33]  The reformed tradition will always be my home, but today's reformed ghetto is like a noose around my neck, ever purity spiraling, perpetual losers.
[00:04:45]  That's where we are.
[00:04:47]  People need to wake up, they need to know what time it is.
[00:04:50]  I truly believe that one of the reasons why reformed folk are constantly talking about Rome is because it's easier to relive the days.
[00:05:00]  Of fighting the dragon from the 1600s than it is to fight the dragon who is alive and at large in your present context.
[00:05:11]  We're avoiding real fights.
[00:05:14]  Does Rome get doctrine wrong?
[00:05:16]  Serious doctrine wrong?
[00:05:18]  Yes, I believe they do.
[00:05:20]  I'm a Protestant at the end of the day.
[00:05:22]  So, yes, I maintain serious theological disagreements with Roman Catholicism.
[00:05:28]  And yet at the same time, We are facing a Muslim invasion.
[00:05:33]  We are facing radical Zionism and an occupied government by Jews here in America.
[00:05:42]  We're facing Drag Queen Story Hour.
[00:05:44]  We're facing the LGBT, LMNOP mafia.
[00:05:49]  We have several enemies at large that we need to focus on today.
[00:05:53]  There's a difference in partnering with someone in your local church or partnering with someone in the realm of.
[00:06:00]  Theology or evangelistic crusades, as Billy Graham did later in life, and I have strong disagreements with that decision.
[00:06:08]  It's different partnering with someone in the realm of the church versus being co belligerents in the political and cultural realm.
[00:06:17]  We have to wake up, we have to know what time it is, and we have to be able to fight the enemies at hand and be willing to link arms with anyone we can as a co belligerent in the realm of politics.
[00:06:30]  And culture.
[00:06:31]  And I see Catholics in many ways as willing to join us in that fight.
[00:06:37]  That's what we're going to be talking about in today's episode.
[00:06:40]  We're also going to be talking about some of the pitfalls that we see on both sides of the aisle.
[00:06:45]  I see a propensity for Protestants to embrace Zionism.
[00:06:50]  I see a propensity for Catholics to embrace globalism.
[00:06:53]  And we're going to flesh those ideas out and talk about some of the solutions.
[00:06:58]  And then, of course, we're also going to address, at least briefly in our first segment, A story that is fresh from this week in regards to Shillsdale College that says, you know what?
[00:07:11]  You can't have a Christian nation.
[00:07:13]  Sorry.
[00:07:14]  But in their bylaw says, we're a Christian college.
[00:07:17]  So you can have a Christian family.
[00:07:19]  You can have a Christian college.
[00:07:21]  You can have a Christian restaurant or a Christian Fortune 500 company.
[00:07:26]  The one thing you can't have is a Christian nation.
[00:07:28]  And why?
[00:07:29]  The same tired, mis exegeted text again and again.
[00:07:34]  Because Jesus said, my kingdom is not of this world.
[00:07:38]  Hillsdale should know better.
[00:07:39]  In fact, I would argue they do know better and that what they're presenting is intentionally subversive.
[00:07:46]  That's the show for today.
[00:07:47]  It is a Mondo mega live stream.
[00:07:50]  Buckle up, get ready.
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[00:08:50]  Let's tune into the show.
[00:09:01]  Well, gentlemen, happy Friday.
[00:09:02]  Happy Friday.
[00:09:03]  We're back.
[00:09:04]  Yep.
[00:09:04]  Well, if you are looking for a Christian college to send your kid to, right?
[00:09:08]  So you have a son, he wants to go, he wants to get a trade, whether it be engineering, whether it be the arts, he's inclined that way.
[00:09:14]  Let's be honest, you have a pretty small list of places that you'd feel comfortable.
[00:09:18]  For one, I mean, most state colleges, public universities, just the people he's going to be around.
[00:09:23]  I think most parents, Christian parents, would say, I can't do that.
[00:09:26]  That is going to be a party every single weekend.
[00:09:29]  And even if he's a good kid, we have to remember Paul makes no apologies in 1 Corinthians 15.
[00:09:33]  Bad company corrupts good morals.
[00:09:35]  He literally prefaces, do not be deceived.
[00:09:37]  So, Paul was clear about that.
[00:09:39]  If you take that to heart, you're like, man, my options for education are local, which if you live in North Dakota, Montana, the local options aren't great.
[00:09:47]  And as far as Christian colleges, honestly, Grove City College, Hillsdale, you have some other more fundamentalist ones like Bob Jones, you don't have a lot of great ones.
[00:09:55]  Even Liberty, it's like, really, you're going to go in here with your resume with Liberty University on there.
[00:10:02]  So, a big one has been Hillsdale's College.
[00:10:03]  They're based out of Hillsdale, Michigan, been around since 1844.
[00:10:08]  And I think they kind of got the pass because they've been this legacy institution, right?
[00:10:11]  Well, it's Hillsdale College, and they may not be hip on everything going on right this moment.
[00:10:16]  But I mean, come on, they're one of the longest standing Christian colleges out there.
[00:10:20]  Well, the president of Hillsdale sat down with Reverend Kevin DeYoung from the PCA, I believe that's his denomination, sat down with him to have a conversation.
[00:10:28]  And there was a brief moment that they chose to highlight as a little bit of a trailer and a hey, coming out soon.
[00:10:34]  We've got this episode.
[00:10:35]  You're not going to want to miss it.
[00:10:37]  Here's a sneak peek.
[00:10:37]  And so let's listen to the part that they pulled out and said, This is what you're going to want to hear from us.
[00:10:42]  This is the podcast of the president of somebody else.
[00:10:45]  It's important to note this was not somebody else clipping them out of context.
[00:10:49]  If you want to see clips taken out of context by fierce opposition that want a ministry to be destroyed, look for all the clips from Right Response Ministries from all our detractors.
[00:10:58]  This was them.
[00:10:59]  Right.
[00:11:00]  Right.
[00:11:00]  This was Shilsdale themselves saying, you know what I think is awesome and really, really presents our position well.
[00:11:07]  Boom.
[00:11:07]  The episode's not out yet, but hang on.
[00:11:10]  We're going to whet your appetite.
[00:11:11]  Here it is.
[00:11:12]  Let's go ahead and play that clip.
[00:11:13]  George Washington's first inaugural, part of it written by James Madison.
[00:11:18]  Our republic is founded in the great fact and the whole course and economy of nature, the indissoluble connection between virtue and happiness.
[00:11:28]  That's just a summary of Aristotle's Nicomachean ethics.
[00:11:31]  And you said something really important with the letter that Washington writes to the Jewish synagogue.
[00:11:38]  There is a difference between liberty and toleration, those were not identical.
[00:11:43]  So, religious toleration is.
[00:11:46]  We have an established church.
[00:11:47]  We have a state religion.
[00:11:48]  We will tolerate those who are dissenters.
[00:11:52]  Liberty is a more expansive definition.
[00:11:55]  And until you were reading it there again, I had forgotten that Washington makes that important connection.
[00:12:01]  Yeah.
[00:12:04]  You know, Hillsville College is famous, which is a good thing almost always.
[00:12:12]  But some mischievous journalist writes, but they are admired by the Christian nation.
[00:12:20]  And I wrote a letter to the editor, they printed it.
[00:12:22]  I just said, somebody admiring somebody else doesn't necessarily say anything about somebody else.
[00:12:29]  That's right.
[00:12:30]  But if they do admire Hillsdale College, they will learn from it that a Christian nation is not possible because Jesus' kingdom is not of this world.
[00:12:43]  I'm inspired.
[00:12:44]  Can I enroll my young children now in Hillsdale for when they grow up?
[00:12:48]  You mean they can go there and they can learn there's no such thing as a Christian nation?
[00:12:52]  Yeah.
[00:12:52]  Based.
[00:12:53]  Chat, are we back?
[00:12:54]  Ridiculous.
[00:12:55]  We are not back.
[00:12:56]  We are not back.
[00:12:57]  They are not back.
[00:12:57]  We're back.
[00:12:58]  We're back.
[00:12:59]  They're not.
[00:12:59]  No.
[00:13:00]  And we've done this exegesis before, but I think it's helpful to go over it again.
[00:13:04]  This is from John, and it's Pontius Pilate.
[00:13:07]  He's grilling Jesus.
[00:13:08]  This is from John, and I'll take it from here.
[00:13:11]  I actually do want to say something, but go ahead.
[00:13:13]  Go ahead.
[00:13:13]  I was just going to say he's grilling him because you remember the accusations brought against Jesus are he's basically fomenting a revolt against Rome.
[00:13:20]  So the religious rulers of the day put Jesus up.
[00:13:22]  They're like, this guy is getting ready to form a revolution and form his own kingdom.
[00:13:27]  He's been talking about the kingdom of heaven.
[00:13:29]  I mean, this guy's a religious zealot.
[00:13:31]  And Pontius Pilate's like, is this true?
[00:13:34]  Like, give it to me straight.
[00:13:36]  Do you have a kingdom?
[00:13:37]  And Jesus responds to him, My kingdom is not of this world.
[00:13:41]  Joel, you want to take it from there?
[00:13:42]  Yep.
[00:13:43]  Kingdom is not of this world.
[00:13:44]  Here's the deal people will look at that and they'll say, Well, at the end of the day, Jesus had no interest in civil politics, worldly affairs, temporal, you know, civil reigning and ruling.
[00:13:55]  That is not the case.
[00:13:57]  One of the three temptations when Satan, right, when the spirit, it's right after Jesus' baptism, The spirit actually leads Jesus into the wilderness where he fasts from food and water for 40 days.
[00:14:08]  And after he's in the human nature at his most vulnerable and weakest point, Satan then seizes an opportune time, comes to the Christ, and tempts him in three different ways.
[00:14:20]  And one of the temptations is that Satan takes Jesus up to a hillside and then shows him all the kingdoms of the world.
[00:14:28]  And I think that this is probably supernatural, that he's actually giving.
[00:14:34]  A visible view, but also even spiritually, like a vision, and showing him, here's, you know, this kingdom way over, you know, something going on in Egypt, and here's something going on here in Jerusalem, and here's Rome, and here's all the powers of the world, right?
[00:14:48]  Here's all the kingdoms.
[00:14:49]  And Jesus refuses the offer.
[00:14:52]  Now, here's the deal the offer that Satan makes, the contingency is that I will give you all the kingdoms of the world if you bow down and worship me.
[00:15:01]  And Jesus, again, he does this with all three temptations.

=== Jesus Takes The Kingdoms Directly (07:54) ===

[00:15:05]  He quotes the scripture, it is written, You shall not worship anyone but God alone.
[00:15:10]  And so he refuses the temptation.
[00:15:12]  Now, this is where the pietist comes in and says, You see, Jesus isn't interested in politics.
[00:15:17]  Jesus doesn't really care about the temporal, you know, human civil kingdoms of the world.
[00:15:23]  Now, Jesus is not interested in the kingdoms of the world being given to him by the devil at the cost of idolatry.
[00:15:31]  So when Jesus says, No, no, no, I'm not going to take this offer, essentially what Jesus is saying is, I don't need you, Satan, to give me the kingdoms of the world because I'm going to take them.
[00:15:41]  I'm going to take them.
[00:15:42]  You're not going to give them to me by me being subservient and idolatrous and blasphemous and worshiping you.
[00:15:48]  No, I'm going to take them and I'm going to do it victoriously by my death and resurrection and glorious, vicarious ascension to the right hand of God the Father Almighty.
[00:15:58]  Jesus is absolutely interested in the kingdoms of the world, but he's going to gain ruling and reigning the right way.
[00:16:07]  Now, to flesh it out even a little bit more, God appointed Adam.
[00:16:12]  In the garden, as federal head over all creation, not just Eve and their posterity, not just humankind, but all of earthly creation.
[00:16:20]  He gave him dominion over the birds of the air and the fish of the sea and the beast of the field.
[00:16:25]  Adam is viceroy, Adam is steward of all the earthly cosmos, all of creation.
[00:16:32]  When Adam chose willfully to sin and to join his wife in eating of the forbidden fruit, in that moment, he forfeited his dominion to the prince of the air.
[00:16:43]  So Satan begins to be known by this title that he is prince of the world.
[00:16:50]  He is prince of the air.
[00:16:52]  All of a sudden, he gains because Adam, by his sin, he forfeited his God given dominion over the earthly cosmos.
[00:17:00]  And he forfeits that.
[00:17:01]  When he forfeits it, it's not just left lying on the ground, but it's taken up by Satan.
[00:17:05]  Satan now has real authority over the worldly kingdom.
[00:17:10]  So when Satan goes to Jesus, this is not a fake offer.
[00:17:13]  When Satan goes to Christ in the temptation in the wilderness and he says, I'll give you the kingdoms, it's because the kingdoms of the world at that moment, from the moment of Adam's sin all the way until Christ's victory, they really did belong to Satan.
[00:17:26]  He actually had authority over them over these earthly kingdoms.
[00:17:30]  This is why, in the book of Daniel, when the angel finally gets to Daniel to give to him a revelation, he says, I'm sorry that I've been held up, that I'm late in coming because I had to fight with the prince of Persia, right?
[00:17:42]  The Bible talks about princes and principalities.
[00:17:45]  During the time of post lapsarian, after sin entered the world with Adam, and until the second Adam, the better Adam, Jesus Christ, regains this dominion and takes it back, in between these two time periods, Satan is the ruler of this age.
[00:18:01]  He's the ruler of the prince of the air, of the worldly kingdoms and domains during that time.
[00:18:07]  And there were a principality.
[00:18:09]  A lot of people don't understand this.
[00:18:11]  It's like a state, it's a region.
[00:18:14]  It's like provinces in Canada.
[00:18:17]  A principality is the geographic region.
[00:18:19]  The prince was not the human king or ruler that was set up over it, like the king of Babylon or something like that.
[00:18:26]  No, the prince is actually the spiritual entity.
[00:18:30]  A demon, a fallen angel that was subservient to one of the chief fallen angels, the chief fallen angel, namely Satan.
[00:18:38]  And Satan was ruling the world and he did so geographically by appointing certain regions to his minions.
[00:18:45]  So there actually was a king over Persia, a human king, but then a prince over that principality, that region, a demonic prince whispering in his ear.
[00:18:57]  Think of the Rohans, right?
[00:19:00]  And where all, you know, Saruman, this wicked wizard, is.
[00:19:04]  There's still a physical human king on the throne in Rohan, but he is being controlled from a distance, from a spiritual power.
[00:19:13]  So that's what's going on.
[00:19:14]  So when Satan comes to Jesus, he makes this offer.
[00:19:17]  It's a valid offer, it's a real offer.
[00:19:19]  Satan is saying, Look, God gave earthly dominion to Adam.
[00:19:23]  Adam, by his sin, forfeited that earthly dominion to me.
[00:19:26]  I now rule the kingdoms of this earth, but I'll give them back to you.
[00:19:30]  And all it costs, all it costs is idolatry.
[00:19:35]  And Jesus says, no, not because he's not interested in politics, not because he's not interested in these temporal affairs or the kingdoms of the world.
[00:19:44]  Jesus is saying, no, I'm not going to be given the kingdoms by idolatry.
[00:19:48]  I'm going to take the kingdoms by my life, death, and resurrection.
[00:19:53]  And that's precisely what Jesus does.
[00:19:55]  So when Jesus says, my kingdom, get into that, is not of this world, he's talking about the nature of the kingdom, not its location.
[00:20:03]  So he's not saying, my kingdom is a kingdom merely confined to the 17th dimension.
[00:20:09]  My kingdom is simply somewhere up in the clouds where there's little baby angels playing harps.
[00:20:15]  He's not saying I have an ethereal and merely strictly spiritual kingdom that never transfers or has any domain in the earthly physical world.
[00:20:26]  When Jesus says my kingdom is not of this world, he doesn't say my kingdom is not in this world.
[00:20:31]  I'll say that again.
[00:20:32]  You have to understand.
[00:20:33]  Jesus is not saying my kingdom is not in this world.
[00:20:36]  He's saying my kingdom is not of this world.
[00:20:38]  Meaning what?
[00:20:39]  That the source of authority and power.
[00:20:42]  Of Christ's kingdom, which is in heaven and in this world on earth, is a heavenly source.
[00:20:48]  It's a divine source.
[00:20:50]  So, the source of his power, the nature of his kingdom is not worldly, right?
[00:20:55]  The nature of his kingdom, the manner of his kingdom is not of a source that is of worldly power.
[00:21:01]  But to say that his kingdom, in terms of location, does not breach into the physical cosmos is a crazy misunderstanding of scripture.
[00:21:10]  The last thing that Jesus says before giving the Great Commission, before he is ascending and then hidden behind the clouds, is he prefaces his statement of going and making disciples of the nations.
[00:21:22]  Of earthly nations, making them disciples, not just making disciples out of the nations of individual people, but that the nations themselves would flock to Mount Zion.
[00:21:31]  They would become subservient to King Jesus, that the nations would be Christianized, that they would be baptized into the triune name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
[00:21:41]  And Jesus, that's his last command, commission given to the apostles.
[00:21:44]  And to preface it, he says this all authority, all rule, all reign, all kingly authority.
[00:21:54]  On earth and in heaven has been given to me.
[00:21:58]  So Christ is king.
[00:22:00]  He's king of Jews.
[00:22:01]  He's king of Muslims.
[00:22:02]  He's king of atheists.
[00:22:03]  He's king of Hindus.
[00:22:05]  It's not whether, but which.
[00:22:08]  It's not whether or not Christ is king.
[00:22:10]  He is your king.
[00:22:12]  Nobody makes Jesus king.
[00:22:13]  God the Father made Jesus king when he rose Jesus on the third day bodily from the grave and then exalted him to the place of honor with a name above all other names.
[00:22:26]  Christ, the anointed one, Lord, Kyrios.
[00:22:30]  God made his son Jesus king, and he has authority both in heaven and on earth.
[00:22:36]  He is not merely relegated in his kingship to a spiritual 17th dimension, ethereal kingship.
[00:22:43]  It is a heavenly kingship and an earthly kingship.
[00:22:46]  And whether you're Muslim or Jewish or atheist or whatever it is, Jesus is your king.
[00:22:52]  You don't make him king.
[00:22:54]  Jesus is your king.
[00:22:55]  You can love him or hate him, you can bless him or curse him.
[00:22:57]  But he is your king in every knee.

=== Every Knee Will Bow Eventually (06:37) ===

[00:22:59]  It's not if, it's merely when.
[00:23:02]  Every knee will bow and every tongue will confess.
[00:23:05]  Some knees will bow by grace, some knees will break, right?
[00:23:10]  Even Matthew Henry, the Puritan, said this some knees will bend, others will break when he who rules the kingdoms of the earth with an iron scepter breaks their kneecaps on the final day.
[00:23:21]  He is king, he is king.
[00:23:23]  And Shilsdale College doesn't know what they're talking about.
[00:23:28]  Yeah, it's, I mean, one thing you have to just recognize too, I think, and we'll pull up a little excerpt here from the about page of hillsdale.edu.
[00:23:37]  But one thing you immediately recognize, Joel, after you articulate it that way is okay, that's a reformed covenantal view of Scripture.
[00:23:45]  Hillsdale wasn't founded on that.
[00:23:47]  In many ways, I'm sure they're just completely unfamiliar.
[00:23:49]  That sort of thing isn't taught.
[00:23:51]  But that aside, I do find it sort of a little jarring that one of the final things that Christ says, you know, you typically hang on to those final few comments from somebody.
[00:24:01]  Let me wrap it all up for you here.
[00:24:03]  All authority on heaven and earth.
[00:24:05]  Not some, not most in heaven, some a little on earth, but all of it is his.
[00:24:12]  And even on that scripture alone, the fact that an Arminian can't grasp this sort of thing is a little jarring.
[00:24:20]  But let's pull up.
[00:24:21]  So I want to read this because there's a couple insights from this little piece that you find on the about page right at the top at hillsdale.edu.
[00:24:30]  They say, talking a little bit about their history, what they're established for, what their charter's about.
[00:24:34]  It says, though established by Free Will Baptists, Hillsdale has been officially non denominational since its inception.
[00:24:41]  It was the first American college to prohibit in its charter any discrimination based on race, religion, or sex, and became an early force for the abolition of slavery.
[00:24:49]  It was also the second college in the nation to grant four year liberal arts degrees to women.
[00:24:54]  So it's talking a little bit here about its history in the late 19th century and sort of what they did, and just a little context here.
[00:25:01]  So the Free Will Baptists, that's a sort of a sub denomination under the General Baptists.
[00:25:05]  These are going to be the non Calvinistic Baptists.
[00:25:07]  And actually, as far as Christian nations go, they were actually pretty politically active.
[00:25:13]  They were some of the biggest proponents of abolition, as this states here.
[00:25:19]  And of course, they had all sorts of things to say about what our nation should be and stood specifically on scripture to make that case.
[00:25:27]  So clearly, in their one takeaway, I think, here is clearly in their founding, they believed that they could enact a Christian nation.
[00:25:33]  In other words, people were coming here, they were going to educate them and indoctrinate them into going out into the world.
[00:25:39]  For the faith.
[00:25:41]  So, well, it's profound.
[00:25:43]  I was going to say 56 years later, so 1844, they're founded, 1900.
[00:25:48]  It depends what census you take, but it's between about 85 to 97% of Americans professed Christianity.
[00:25:55]  So, what in the world do you call a nation that it's like 90% plus of this nation?
[00:26:00]  Now, I'm not saying every single one of those individuals were regenerate, but 90% plus, what religion are you?
[00:26:05]  There's not like, well, I'm kind of agnostic.
[00:26:07]  We'll see how it works out.
[00:26:08]  I'm an atheist.
[00:26:10]  90% are saying Christian.
[00:26:11]  I mean, you have.
[00:26:12]  Times Square, you have the Empire State Building lit up with the Christian cross on New Year's.
[00:26:17]  You have blasphemy laws, and it's blasphemy against any God, right?
[00:26:20]  No, the Lord Jesus Christ.
[00:26:22]  So, in our laws, the Christian faith, in our culture, the Christian faith, in people's confession, the Christian faith.
[00:26:28]  My goodness, what do you call that kind of nation?
[00:26:31]  Well, it's just a nation.
[00:26:32]  And what's its character?
[00:26:33]  What are some of the things it likes?
[00:26:35]  It has Memorial Day at the time.
[00:26:37]  We have apple pie.
[00:26:39]  We have a declaration.
[00:26:41]  And what would be a description of it?
[00:26:42]  Description of its religion.
[00:26:44]  Oh, a Christian religion.
[00:26:45]  And Hillsdale existed during this time.
[00:26:46]  It existed for 50 years.
[00:26:48]  So it's not just scripturally ignorant, but it's also profoundly ignorant of what God has done in the past here in the United States, most recently and most relevant to Hillsdale, but also what He did all across the West, all through the Middle Ages, that were overwhelmingly Christian.
[00:27:03]  And when you describe them, like the same thing with a Christian family, if you have 15 children, heaven forbid one of them apostatizes, you would still call yourself a Christian family.
[00:27:11]  Our family, the majority of it, goes to church.
[00:27:14]  Our family, the majority of it confesses the Christian faith.
[00:27:17]  Our family is its home is adorned with verses, it's praise before meals.
[00:27:22]  It is a Christian family, recognizing hey, there's a child that did apostatize, but its whole nature, the people that make it up, it's Christian.
[00:27:31]  So it's a profound ignorance from, again, a guy who should know better, right?
[00:27:36]  Kevin DeYoung and the president of a Christian college, right?
[00:27:40]  Yeah, at minimum, to know about your own college's history and sort of what.
[00:27:45]  At the end of the day, there is a telos for education.
[00:27:47]  It's not simply just to know, it's to do something with it and to go out into the world.
[00:27:53]  And of course, that is the.
[00:27:54]  Could nations have a telos like that?
[00:27:57]  Possibly.
[00:27:57]  Yeah.
[00:27:58]  Well, I mean, certainly liberal colleges understand that, right?
[00:28:02]  They understand what it looks like to tell people to go and be something in the world.
[00:28:05]  So it's a little discouraging.
[00:28:08]  But the other thing I want to note, on top of just the sort of complete lapse in their understanding of their own sort of charter and Purpose as a college is the fact that it's clearly, I mean, obviously pre post war consensus, but clearly there's something going on here.
[00:28:25]  As you can see, this is a liberal articulation of the faith and putting Baptists to shame.
[00:28:31]  We're hardest hit over here.
[00:28:32]  But, yeah, I mean, it's, I mean, the articulation about putting women in college and discrimination and so on and so forth.
[00:28:38]  I mean, this is stuff that's, you know, obviously it's coded now in the post Civil Rights Act language.
[00:28:45]  But the appeal there, I think, is what's more telling is that they're appealing to that sort of language to talk about and more or less to brag about what they are and what they are, you know, are proponents of.
[00:28:58]  So clearly to see the chasm here, right?
[00:29:00]  You see the chasm, I think, theologically, you see the chasm politically in terms of what, Hillsdale is what their aim is.
[00:29:07]  Now, all of that said, all of that said, I want to be charitable where I can be charitable and say Hillsdale, as it relates to being a liberal arts college, reviving the classics, you know, trying to bring back a knowledge of Plato and Aristotle and church history and those sorts of things.
[00:29:25]  I mean, they're doing on the scoreboard, they're doing better than the average college, right?
[00:29:29]  So we have to give them credit there in saying that, you know, these things are important.
[00:29:36]  We should be teaching these things.

=== Where Catholics And Protestants Unite (05:11) ===

[00:29:37]  And that podcast set?
[00:29:38]  Let's be honest, pretty good.
[00:29:40]  Phenomenal.
[00:29:40]  They looked great.
[00:29:41]  The aesthetics, the marketing, they do a really good job.
[00:29:43]  Right.
[00:29:44]  So, but I mean, all that said, you still have to recognize that it's not far enough.
[00:29:48]  Like, you have to, when you interpret sort of movements, right, or you interpret sort of the growth of an institution, you do have to recognize, you know, where there are differences, right?
[00:30:03]  Where it's just like, hey, we just don't have the same vision ultimately.
[00:30:06]  But I think, Wes, you hit the nail on the head with the point about, yeah, they're just, they're simply, Not on our team, so to speak, in the sense of wanting a Christian nation.
[00:30:18]  And they've admitted as much.
[00:30:20]  Right.
[00:30:20]  I think that's really good.
[00:30:21]  Let's go ahead and go to our first commercial break.
[00:30:24]  And then we're going to come back and we're going to talk about Catholics and Protestants, where we can unite, where we can't.
[00:30:31]  Spoiler alert theology, right?
[00:30:34]  In the realm of the church, a Catholic cannot be an elder in my church.
[00:30:38]  He cannot be a deacon in my church.
[00:30:40]  And he's going to have to renounce some particular doctrines to even be a member in my church.
[00:30:46]  And that's not me.
[00:30:47]  Being rude or disrespectful or anything like that, that would be vice versa.
[00:30:51]  Absolutely.
[00:30:53]  Dr. Taylor Marshall, who came on the show this last Wednesday, if he was on the show again today, he'd say, Yeah, Joel, it's great that you are pretending to be a pastor.
[00:31:02]  God bless you.
[00:31:04]  But no, you could not be a priest in the Catholic Church.
[00:31:07]  You would not be a deacon in the Catholic Church.
[00:31:09]  You would not be a member in the Catholic Church.
[00:31:11]  You would have to embrace certain doctrines.
[00:31:13]  And so in the church, yeah, in the church, there are substantial differences.
[00:31:18]  And For us to debate those differences with charity and respect, but also conviction and courage, absolutely has to be done.
[00:31:27]  That said, to say this guy's a Catholic, and so we can't even talk to him.
[00:31:32]  We can't even have him on a podcast.
[00:31:34]  We can't partner with this Catholic against Islam, against Judaism, against secular humanism, against abortion, against LGBT, LMNOP, mafia, you know, transgenderism, this, that, and the other.
[00:31:49]  That is foolish, absolutely foolish.
[00:31:51]  And so, yes.
[00:31:52]  We are willing to be co belligerents.
[00:31:54]  I think there are different categories, right?
[00:31:56]  There are different categories of, you know, we are brothers in the same church, in the same church.
[00:32:03]  And then there are, we're friends, right?
[00:32:06]  Brothers, friends.
[00:32:07]  And then there's co belligerents.
[00:32:10]  To say that you can't even be co belligerents with a Catholic as a Protestant in the realm of politics and the realm of culture is absolutely foolish.
[00:32:21]  I do not believe that that would be the position of Calvin.
[00:32:25]  Or Luther.
[00:32:26]  Calvin and Luther were fighting the fiercest threat of their day in a world that was saturated with Christendom that was Catholic.
[00:32:37]  That was what was going on.
[00:32:39]  Calvin and Luther, Geneva was not over, Geneva did not have 90 foot statues to Hindu gods.
[00:32:49]  Right.
[00:32:50]  Right.
[00:32:51]  Geneva was not overrun with Muslims.
[00:32:54]  Geneva was, I mean, Geneva did not have drag queen story owls.
[00:32:59]  And if it did, if it did, Calvin would be writing volumes against it.
[00:33:04]  Well, Calvin seemed to be more concerned about Catholicism than all the gay, lesbian stuff.
[00:33:14]  The gay, lesbian stuff was not happening.
[00:33:17]  When it happened, it happened as a fringe, as a misnomer that was not prevalent.
[00:33:25]  Geneva was not run by gay race communism.
[00:33:29]  And to think that it was is foolish.
[00:33:31]  And if it was, then you would have seen a lot of different writing from John Calvin.
[00:33:36]  He would have said, Yeah, the Pope this and the Pope that, and I stand by this and I stand by that.
[00:33:41]  But also, let's talk about these fags.
[00:33:45]  That would have been part of the discourse as well.
[00:33:47]  All right, so let's go to our first commercial break and we'll come right back.
[00:33:51]  The danger of centralized power is often represented by the word king.
[00:33:56]  As Americans, we hate the word king.
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[00:34:08]  And so Armored Republic is about helping you to preserve your God-given rights to the honor of the Lord Jesus Christ because he is the King of Kings and he governs kings and he will judge them.
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[00:34:26]  We are free craftsmen and we are honored to be your armor spread of choice.
[00:34:44]  The silver is mine and the gold is mine, declares the Lord of Hosts.

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=== Integralism Versus Christian Nationalism (15:50) ===

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[00:37:35]  All right, we're back.
[00:37:38]  We're going to talk about Catholics and Protestants, where we can partner, where we cannot partner.
[00:37:43]  But we're also going to talk about what we see as two potential pitfalls for both, respectively Protestants, Zionism.
[00:37:50]  We're seeing that loud and proud.
[00:37:52]  Oh my goodness, there are multiple times that I feel a little bit embarrassed.
[00:37:56]  Feel a little bit embarrassed.
[00:37:58]  Protestants are just hook, line, and sinker, shilling for Israel like it's nobody's business.
[00:38:04]  There is a propensity among Protestants, I don't think it's unique to Protestantism, but there is a propensity among Protestants, the people, to be Zionist shills.
[00:38:15]  So, Zionism is to Protestantism what I believe globalism has a potential to be to Catholicism.
[00:38:23]  And so, I do want to talk about that.
[00:38:24]  We've got a lot of new Catholics who have been joining the show.
[00:38:26]  We are grateful that you're here.
[00:38:28]  We want to be able to partner on politics, partner on culture, but I want to at least submit something.
[00:38:34]  I'm going to do it charitably and respectfully.
[00:38:36]  But I want to submit something to you for your consideration.
[00:38:39]  At least hear me out, right?
[00:38:40]  Let me cook for a moment.
[00:38:41]  Hear me out.
[00:38:42]  Here's a clip from Wednesday.
[00:38:44]  If you missed the full length conversation, it was a fantastic conversation.
[00:38:48]  Dr. Taylor Marshall was very respectful.
[00:38:51]  I mean, he did send out a tweet roasting John Calvin like two hours before the show.
[00:38:56]  I messaged him privately.
[00:38:57]  I was like, Really?
[00:38:58]  Like right now?
[00:38:59]  You had to do that right now?
[00:39:00]  You're about to come on a reform podcast.
[00:39:03]  And you're like, You know what?
[00:39:03]  I should do two hours before.
[00:39:05]  I should hate on John Calvin.
[00:39:07]  So the timing wasn't great with that, but he took it in stride.
[00:39:11]  You know, we poked at him a little bit, he poked at us.
[00:39:14]  But it was a charitable conversation, some disagreement, some agreement.
[00:39:18]  So I encourage, I humbly submit to you the full conversation.
[00:39:22]  So if you go back to Wednesday, check it out.
[00:39:24]  That's us and Dr. Taylor Marshall.
[00:39:28]  I think you'll enjoy that.
[00:39:30]  But I want, for those of you who have not had an opportunity to see the full conversation, there was one clip towards the end of the conversation that I think is telling.
[00:39:39]  And I think it gets to some of the crux of the issue of some of the political and cultural pitfalls with Protestantism, but also.
[00:39:47]  Catholicism.
[00:39:47]  So, I'm going to show this clip.
[00:39:49]  I'm going to read a little bit from the Pope, our new recently appointed Pope, and then we're going to flesh out what we see as a potential pitfall that you need to be aware of as a Catholic.
[00:40:02]  So, here's a clip from Dr. Taylor Marshall and myself.
[00:40:06]  Our founders, they told us who they were doing it for, for us and our posterity.
[00:40:10]  They weren't doing it for India.
[00:40:12]  And I hope that India is blessed by God and repents of worshiping false gods, becomes Christian, and thrives.
[00:40:20]  I don't hate India.
[00:40:21]  I don't hate brown people, black people, red and yellow, black and white.
[00:40:25]  They are precious in his sight.
[00:40:27]  Yes and amen.
[00:40:29]  But I don't want to lose America.
[00:40:31]  I don't want to lose my people.
[00:40:33]  And I sometimes worry that Catholics, like a guy like you, Taylor, that I know you love our country.
[00:40:41]  And I've seen you.
[00:40:43]  The reason I wanted to have you on the show is I disagree with you on Catholicism, but I've watched your political takes, your cultural takes, and I'm like, Well, goodness gracious.
[00:40:52]  Like, because I'm looking at the Protestants who agree with me on soteriology and some of these things, but they, oh my goodness, like, if people listen to their politics, we're done, you know?
[00:41:02]  So I'm like looking at you and I'm like, all right, I'm going to have to reach across the aisle here and play nice and be respectful.
[00:41:09]  And I want to be respectful regardless.
[00:41:11]  But like, you're saying good things.
[00:41:13]  But I do get scared that even a guy like you, who seems to love America, who looks like a heritage American, That your Catholicism, that tail might wag the dog in terms of national allegiance versus religious allegiance.
[00:41:35]  And that you might be like, hey, you know what?
[00:41:39]  Open the floodgates and boom, we got our Catholic America.
[00:41:43]  But we lost our ethnic America in the process.
[00:41:48]  And I think that matters.
[00:41:51]  I think it matters too.
[00:41:53]  I'm a Catholic and I'm against.
[00:41:58]  So, even if you said, man, all these Catholics coming over the border, they go to mass every Sunday, et cetera, and you have illegal, unbridled immigration, there is a net negative.
[00:42:10]  There's a problem there.
[00:42:12]  But at the same time, when you're looking at priorities and political priorities, I talk to my Catholic friends in Europe, and they're like, man, you should see Paris right now.
[00:42:22]  This is getting crazy.
[00:42:24]  And you go in Rome and you see, More and more gypsies, and you see more and more Indians, and they're saying, Man, we're just being overtaken.
[00:42:31]  I, at least, you know, over here in Texas, I say, Well, at least ours are Catholic.
[00:42:37]  You know what I mean?
[00:42:38]  I know you're saying like wag the tail, but I'm like, man, we're blessed.
[00:42:42]  You know, our illegal aliens, you know, they're committing crime and there's all these gangs and all that, but a lot of them at least are going to mass on Sunday.
[00:42:49]  It's not like Muslims, you know, bowing down in the streets of downtown Paris for their five, you know, times of prayer per day.
[00:42:57]  So, yeah, I am a little bit more softened on that as a Texan.
[00:43:00]  I'm against, you know, illegal immigration.
[00:43:03]  But I also understand there is the idea of a cultural, of a familial, Identity of American.
[00:43:13]  Obviously, I'm not a wasp, but part of the cool thing about Catholic history and tradition is the Pope never said, I want Germans to be French and French to be German, and I want French people to move over here and German people to move over here, and I want the Belgians to start going over the channel and living in England, and I want Belgian people to start eating English food and speaking English.
[00:43:41]  There was always the idea that each one of these nations is Christian.
[00:43:45]  They're baptized.
[00:43:47]  They go to church on Sunday.
[00:43:49]  They have their own archbishops, their own bishoprics, which, by the way, are geographical.
[00:43:53]  This is a very important thing in Catholicism.
[00:43:56]  Our structure, our hierarchy is built on the diocese and the parish.
[00:44:00]  So it's very geographical.
[00:44:02]  There was never the idea that it all had to be mixed up into one generic soup.
[00:44:07]  And that's actually really beautiful and.
[00:44:11]  Something that we should try to attain.
[00:44:13]  Now that we have airplanes and boats and all that, it's going to be a lot more difficult moving forward.
[00:44:19]  And as a Catholic, and I think you would agree with this as well, my faith trumps my citizenship.
[00:44:26]  Like I would always go with faith over citizenship.
[00:44:30]  Right.
[00:44:32]  So, yeah.
[00:44:33]  So when I look at the immigrants, I'm like, at least our immigrants come from at least three to 500 years of a Christian.
[00:44:43]  Culture, they believe in the Ten Commandments.
[00:44:45]  They may not act on it, they may be criminals, but at least they're coming from something that is Spanish Christianity, which is way better than a Somalian.
[00:44:55]  You know?
[00:44:58]  All right, let's deal with this.
[00:44:59]  So, yeah, Spanish Christianity, Spanish Catholicism to be more particular, better than Somalian.
[00:45:05]  Yeah, I agree, but it's still not American.
[00:45:09]  I want a Christian America, absolutely, but I want it to still be America.
[00:45:14]  I want it to actually be America.
[00:45:16]  If we're not careful, this becomes the same thing that we saw with Vivek and Elon, right?
[00:45:20]  Where, well, America first just means America as the sports team.
[00:45:25]  And it doesn't matter how many players we have to trade out.
[00:45:27]  If we have to import on H 1B visas, you know, 100 million Indians to come in and, you know, say, oh, I like apple pie, you know, so long as they can code better than, you know, some of the white guys, so that we can be America first, meaning America winning the race.
[00:45:47]  For artificial intelligence and beating other countries on the GDP must go up, America beating China, then that's America first.
[00:45:56]  No, it's not.
[00:45:57]  America first is Americans first.
[00:45:59]  Americans first.
[00:46:01]  And that's not Spanish Catholics.
[00:46:03]  And so, like when he said, for instance, and I want to be charitable because I really appreciated him on this conversation.
[00:46:09]  He did a great job, and we'd love to have him as a guest again.
[00:46:12]  And there's a lot of political and cultural things that we can align on and we can be co belligerents with.
[00:46:17]  But this is one that I do have some sharp disagreement.
[00:46:22]  You notice that Dr. Marshall said, you know, he said, obviously, I'm not a wasp.
[00:46:28]  Emphasis on wasp, the P, right?
[00:46:32]  He's saying, I'm not Protestant.
[00:46:35]  But he's recognizing.
[00:46:36]  Recognize it.
[00:46:37]  White Anglo Saxon Protestant.
[00:46:39]  That's what that stands for.
[00:46:40]  White Anglo Saxon Protestant.
[00:46:41]  And this is the bedrock of the founding of this nation.
[00:46:44]  It is.
[00:46:45]  And nobody can contest that.
[00:46:47]  And if that's completely done away with, then you still have a country, but it's not America.
[00:46:54]  Not in any discernible historical heritage sort of way.
[00:46:59]  You have lost America's heritage.
[00:47:02]  If we have a Catholic America, that's a different America, right?
[00:47:07]  And if we have a Spanish America, Right.
[00:47:10]  So if it's, you know, if it's not instead of wasp, you replace the P with C, right?
[00:47:16]  And it's Catholic now.
[00:47:17]  Well, that's a different America.
[00:47:19]  If you replace the Anglo Saxon with, you know, Spanish, even other European, Spanish, Latin, or whatever.
[00:47:26]  So we're not even saying like India comes in.
[00:47:28]  Well, then it's, you know, it's India, Protestant.
[00:47:31]  Yes.
[00:47:31]  Even other European, that said, Irish.
[00:47:33]  That said, it is a sliding scale.
[00:47:35]  Yep.
[00:47:36]  So you replace the Anglo Saxons with more Germans and Italians.
[00:47:42]  You've lost something.
[00:47:43]  Right.
[00:47:43]  You've changed something.
[00:47:44]  You replace them with Haitians and you've really lost something, right?
[00:47:47]  That's just a bigger change.
[00:47:49]  That is a much more stark change.
[00:47:53]  We have to be able to say that.
[00:47:54]  Of course, that is a radically different America.
[00:47:58]  And what you hear Taylor Marshall saying is well, you know, I'm at least pleasantly surprised and happy to see that a lot of the immigrants coming in are Spanish Catholics instead of.
[00:48:16]  Somalians.
[00:48:16]  And then he even said for a moment there, he said, you know, and a lot of them are, you know, criminals.
[00:48:24]  They're committing crimes, but at least they're in mass on Sunday.
[00:48:29]  You know, mass shootings on Monday, but in mass on Sunday.
[00:48:32]  Your family got decapitated by a terrible driver, but he was in mass on Sunday.
[00:48:37]  That dude took the Eucharist.
[00:48:38]  You know, God bless him.
[00:48:39]  How does this get my family back?
[00:48:41]  Oh, it doesn't.
[00:48:41]  Here's my point I don't think that this is an aberration.
[00:48:46]  I don't think that this is.
[00:48:49]  Just a one off, isolated.
[00:48:52]  I actually think that this is consistently Catholic.
[00:48:55]  So let's look at a couple things from the Pope.
[00:48:59]  Let's start off with one of the, it's been called one of the most popular, most well known papal bulls, and that would be Unum Sanctum.
[00:49:05]  We've talked about it on this show, we've gone through the actual wording of it.
[00:49:08]  But one of the things that the bull says, you guys have to get this because a big part of Catholicism, if it's Christian nationalism on the Protestant side of things, nationalism and Christian, then the Catholic side would be integralism.
[00:49:18]  And so you would have actually the integration of church and state.
[00:49:21]  And in this papal bull from 1302, Boniface VIII, it explicitly states that the church is actually over the state as far as temporal matters.
[00:49:30]  That the final judge of whether something is good or something is bad, not just on doctrine, it actually is the church.
[00:49:36]  The church as a spiritual institution has an authority over the temporal.
[00:49:41]  So if you think maybe the classical two kingdoms, in that realm, it's not a one over the other, but they distinguish.
[00:49:47]  They run alongside each other, both the sacred and the common running alongside one another, distinct, but not a hierarchy.
[00:49:56]  Exactly.
[00:49:56]  And there's domains where, like the natural realm, the king has authority, for example, to say a tsunami is coming, church is canceled.
[00:50:03]  Right.
[00:50:03]  He doesn't give out the sacraments because those have been given to the ministers under shepherds under Christ.
[00:50:10]  Which is why we've got to get this right.
[00:50:13]  The technicalities matter.
[00:50:15]  The problem with COVID was not that the civil magistrate can't cancel church for a natural disaster or an emergency.
[00:50:23]  The problem with COVID is that he kept canceling church, not one week, but months and months, again and again and again.
[00:50:30]  And there was no disaster.
[00:50:32]  Right.
[00:50:32]  That was the problem.
[00:50:33]  If it was the Spanish flu where people could die in as little as four hours, I think you could say, except for ministers going to the beds of the sick, church will be canceled for a couple of weeks.
[00:50:43]  Now, years on end in the country where there's three people that never interact with the town?
[00:50:48]  No.
[00:50:49]  But practically, in the common kingdom, for the temporal things, for the natural ends, for the well being, for ordering people towards the spiritual kingdom and heavenly life, there's a unique authority.
[00:51:00]  Then the same thing with the spiritual kingdom, it has real authority.
[00:51:03]  Ministers have the keys to the kingdom, they have the power to.
[00:51:07]  Give out and administer the sacrament.
[00:51:10]  So, we as Protestants distinguish if you're two kingdoms, then if you're theonomic, there's other ways these interact.
[00:51:15]  Yeah, you can distinguish by the Kyperian spheres if you're more theonomic, or you can distinguish by the two kingdoms if you're more of a Thomist.
[00:51:24]  But what Wesley's saying is.
[00:51:25]  In Catholic doctrine, one is over the other.
[00:51:28]  And here's the thing because that's one of the false charges that a lot of the Protestant Christian nationalists keep receiving again and again from Protestants, from reformed ministers who should know better.
[00:51:38]  And they say, look, this is just integralism.
[00:51:41]  Yep.
[00:51:41]  This is just the integration of church and state with the state running the state.
[00:51:46]  They're going to do the same thing that Catholics have historically done, where the Pope is over the king, where all of a sudden it's not a theocracy, it's an ecclesiocracy, where all of a sudden it's a church run state.
[00:52:01]  We want a theocracy.
[00:52:02]  Christ is king, and he's not just king of the church, but he's actually king of the state as well.
[00:52:07]  Ephesians, I believe it's chapter 1, verse 20 or verse 21 that says, And God has appointed him, that being Christ, As head over all things to the church.
[00:52:19]  What that means is not just Christ is head of the church.
[00:52:21]  Of course, he's head of the church.
[00:52:23]  And Christ, we would argue, is exclusively head of the church in a unique way, in the sense that Christ exclusively gave his life up for the church.
[00:52:32]  But Christ is not head of the church in terms of his authority only.
[00:52:38]  The Bible says, Ephesians chapter 1, that God has appointed him as head of all things to the benefit of the church.
[00:52:46]  So Christ is uniquely head of the church.

=== When Church Authority Meets State Power (15:10) ===

[00:52:49]  Right, he actually dies for the church, washes her by his blood.
[00:52:53]  He doesn't do that for any other human institution, he doesn't do that for the state, for the common kingdom, he doesn't even do it for the family.
[00:53:00]  He does that for the church, and even if you're covenantal, right?
[00:53:03]  So, I'm not even picking on guys who you know with pedo baptism.
[00:53:08]  I understand the arguments, it makes sense to me.
[00:53:11]  Um, but the point is, even for those guys, they still have a category for apostasy, for trampling the blood of the covenant underfoot, so they still acknowledge.
[00:53:21]  And for those who are Calvinist, whether you're Presbyterian or Anglican, Presbyterian, you know, but those guys, some Anglicans, those guys would still argue, they would say, yeah, a covenant child who has been baptized as an infant can commit apostasy.
[00:53:38]  And what that will ultimately prove is not that Jesus died for him and that he walked away, but that Jesus actually never died for him at all.
[00:53:46]  He trampled the blood of the covenant underfoot because he despised his birthright, because it really, In the decretal sense, never belonged to.
[00:53:53]  He was not among the decretal elect.
[00:53:55]  He was in the new covenant, but not elect.
[00:53:58]  And so they would acknowledge that Christ did not die for the family, for the entire family, but actually only died for those members of the family who are not only members of the new covenant, but members of the decretal elect.
[00:54:13]  And so whether it's the visible versus the invisible.
[00:54:15]  Exactly.
[00:54:16]  So, whether it's the family or whether it's the state or whether it's the market or whether it's any of these other human realms, Christ is uniquely, not exclusively, He's head of all things in terms of His authority as headship.
[00:54:29]  But He is uniquely head of the church in the sense that the church is the entity for which the invisible, universal Catholic, lowercase c, Catholic church for which He died, for which He purifies, for which He sanctifies, for which He saves.
[00:54:46]  And so, Christ is uniquely head of the church.
[00:54:48]  But he is not exclusively head of the church.
[00:54:51]  He is rather exhaustively appointed as head of all things.
[00:54:54]  So, that being said, that means Christ is head of the state, which means above the minister, there is Christ in the realm of the church.
[00:55:02]  Above the Christian prince, right, there is Christ above the magistrate.
[00:55:07]  And so, you do want a theocracy, God above the state.
[00:55:11]  You do not want an ecclesiocracy necessarily, that being the church above the state.
[00:55:17]  And Protestantism allows for a A theocracy, politically speaking, in terms of the state, where the state is separate from the church, but it's not separate from Christ.
[00:55:29]  And so the state is distinctly Christian, where you adopt the Nicene Creed or the Apostles' Creed as a preamble to the Constitution, where you have the Ten Commandments plastered everywhere and you legislate them as law.
[00:55:41]  You can have that within Protestantism, a theocracy, without it being ecclesiocracy and without it being integralism.
[00:55:49]  Within Catholicism, though, it is integralism.
[00:55:53]  And so, because of that, there is a blurring of the kingdoms.
[00:55:56]  There's a blurring of the natural kingdom from the heavenly one, from the kingdom of grace and those things which are sacred and the kingdom of those things which are common, which means that they're not two kingdoms running alongside each other parallel with different spheres and different jurisdictions, but instead it is a hierarchy and the kingdom of grace, and therefore the clergy actually at the end of the day stands above.
[00:56:23]  The magistrate, which means that the Pope can then give papal orders, and now we're going to get back on track, that actually insist upon losing national political distinctions.
[00:56:35]  And that's one of my fears when it comes to Catholicism.
[00:56:38]  I have my grievances theologically, but now speaking politically, one of my concerns for the political vision of consistent Catholics.
[00:56:47]  So a lot of you would disagree with this.
[00:56:48]  Praise God, you're inconsistent Catholics.
[00:56:53]  Many such cases.
[00:56:54]  And I thank God and praise God for you.
[00:56:56]  There are many Catholics that listen to this show that say, No, I want America to be Catholic, but I also want America to be America.
[00:57:03]  I don't want it to be a bunch of Spanish Catholics and every person of European descent is replaced.
[00:57:10]  That would be Catholic, but it wouldn't be America.
[00:57:13]  And I don't want that as a Catholic.
[00:57:15]  You're awesome.
[00:57:16]  Praise God.
[00:57:17]  I appreciate you.
[00:57:18]  But what I want you to see, though, is that Catholics, I think many Catholics, Want America in its nationality to remain distinct.
[00:57:28]  Catholicism, though, not talking about the people, but now the positions.
[00:57:33]  I think that Catholicism has a consistent implication to globalism in a way that Protestantism, so Protestants, the people, they're a bunch of Zionists.
[00:57:45]  But Protestantism actually does not lend towards Zionism.
[00:57:50]  That's an inconsistency on the part of Protestants.
[00:57:53]  Whereas Catholics, many of them, are not globalist.
[00:57:57]  They love America.
[00:57:58]  They want America to remain in its national distinction.
[00:58:02]  But Catholicism, right, not the people, but the position in consistency, it does allow for globalism in a way that Protestantism does not.
[00:58:11]  Let's look at the papal bull and then let's look at some quotes from our recently appointed pope.
[00:58:15]  Right, and so the point is exactly that putting the church over the natural can result in some strange readings, especially.
[00:58:22]  And I'll say this before we get to it we're in a different world than we were in 1302, for example, when that papal bull came out.
[00:58:29]  It's one thing I think of a video game you haven't unlocked certain areas of the map, lest we forget most of the east and most certainly Africa, as far as below the Saharan desert, we hadn't unlocked that area yet.
[00:58:41]  Right, so there was a thousand years of Christendom where questions of refugees and migrants and those immigrating.
[00:58:47]  Sometimes these are literally people speaking the same language.
[00:58:50]  They're crossing 25 miles.
[00:58:51]  They're for sure from the same cultural milieu.
[00:58:54]  But now in 2025, in the year of our Lord, with boats and planes, we have 3 billion people in the third world, and all of them would love to come here.
[00:59:04]  That's right.
[00:59:04]  That did not exist.
[00:59:06]  Right.
[00:59:06]  And so it's perfectly applicable to say, hey, there was a time when this actually wouldn't have lended towards destruction.
[00:59:11]  We're talking about intra Europe type of immigration back and forth, passing through.
[00:59:16]  Hey, you're a member of the Catholic Church, you simply transferred.
[00:59:18]  And even then, it did have some disruptions.
[00:59:20]  There were times during the Reformation where men would flee and they'd take up all the jobs from the other Christian men in the city that they came to.
[00:59:27]  So even then, it had its problems.
[00:59:28]  But the problems today, with again, 3 billion people who would do anything and say anything.
[00:59:35]  I've heard of Americans that live down there.
[00:59:37]  Children will bang down their doors begging them to learn English.
[00:59:40]  And I don't doubt that they would be good students.
[00:59:42]  They would learn English.
[00:59:43]  That's their way out.
[00:59:44]  So you have 3 billion people that say, I will say anything.
[00:59:46]  I will learn anything.
[00:59:47]  I will do anything.
[00:59:48]  I will work any job.
[00:59:49]  Just get me.
[00:59:50]  To the first world.
[00:59:52]  And in that framework, let's go ahead and read the message from the newly appointed Pope, the newly chosen Pope.
[00:59:57]  And this is from just in July, and it's a message relating to the 111th day of, I'm going to change this for the title, 111th World Day of Migrants and Refugees, which comes in October.
[01:00:09]  And the Pope, so Pope Leo XIV, he said this The communities that welcome migrants and refugees could be a living witness of a society where the dignity of all as children of God is recognized and in which all are brothers and sisters.
[01:00:24]  Part of the same family.
[01:00:26]  Don't love it.
[01:00:27]  Don't love it.
[01:00:28]  Antonio, we said a lot.
[01:00:29]  I'll give it to you for a bit.
[01:00:30]  Yeah, well, I would just say, and I think particularly in that context of this tweet from Pope Leo here about the ways that the, and one thing I appreciate about Stephen Wolf, one of many things is the way that he articulates the common kingdom here in America and the expression as a republic and the way that, you know, papal, even, it doesn't even need to be a decree.
[01:00:50]  It could simply just be a tweet like that that influences, because you have to remember in a republic, it's, It's the people.
[01:00:57]  The people have a moral imperative to direct the government.
[01:01:01]  And so, you know, early on in our republic, you know, founders into the 19th century, you know, political leaders would talk about this concept of dual allegiance and simply in the way of like, where are we being influenced?
[01:01:17]  So you talk, you can think of George Washington's farewell address.
[01:01:20]  He talks about importing foreign grievances or importing sort of foreign wars or whatever the case would be, and that sort of being a challenge.
[01:01:29]  Well, similarly, as a Catholic in the early Republic, if you're listening, you have an ear to the Pope, as you should if you're a good Catholic, you are importing messages that aren't germane to the Republic.
[01:01:41]  And so that's the concern you have here, not just sort of theologically and conceptually, but also simply just thinking about America, the way that our government functions, is when if I'm a Catholic and I see the Pope say something like that, that holds weight.
[01:01:57]  And there can be a concern about how much weight that holds, how that swings my vote, sways my vote, who.
[01:02:02]  You know, how I express myself politically in my own nation.
[01:02:06]  That's a great point.
[01:02:07]  Catholicism, you have to remember the adjective that comes before it, Roman Catholicism.
[01:02:13]  Catholicism has a geographic global locale, it has an HQ, it has a headquarters, a central location, whereas Protestantism does not.
[01:02:26]  You can have an Anglican Great Britain, and you could have conceivably a Presbyterian, for instance, United States.
[01:02:41]  You can have distinct nations that are Protestant in a way that you're not able to.
[01:02:48]  With Catholicism, there is a blurring of the lines.
[01:02:52]  It's, well, we all have a global head that we report to.
[01:02:58]  And that global head, and there's also the integralism piece, that global head at times will either blatantly or seemingly blur sacred.
[01:03:10]  And common kingdoms together to where now, upon the civil magistrate, right, you have the Pope speaking from Rome, and the civil magistrate now in Timbuktu feels an obligation to let in X many millions of people from the third world, so long as they're Catholic.
[01:03:31]  Catholic aid societies have been huge for resettling immigrants in the United States, practically speaking.
[01:03:37]  Yep.
[01:03:37]  So, Protestants, like I said, the Zionist Protestants have been huge for supporting Israel.
[01:03:44]  And, you know, great big L right there.
[01:03:47]  Let's be honest.
[01:03:49]  For not all, we're not among them, but for a lot of Protestants, there has not been a war that they have not liked in the Middle East for the last few decades, right?
[01:04:02]  It's like, whoa, we've got, you know, our greatest ally needs our help.
[01:04:06]  You know, like, let's send a check, send a son, send a daughter, you know, to go and bleed out for Israel.
[01:04:13]  And to be fair, we killed our own too a lot.
[01:04:15]  World War I, World War II, even the Civil War, we Protestants for the most part, Lord knows Catholics had their bloody eras too.
[01:04:21]  But we for sure said, we'll go to the marching field and slaughter literally millions of our own.
[01:04:26]  Yes.
[01:04:27]  And recently it seems like we are more than eager to do that on behalf of Israel.
[01:04:33]  And so we're trying to point out errors on both sides.
[01:04:38]  Protestantism, I think that you got to be careful about Zionism.
[01:04:43]  Now, I don't think that's unique.
[01:04:45]  I don't think it consistently follows from the position of Protestantism.
[01:04:48]  But Protestants, I think, often are Zionist.
[01:04:51]  Whereas Catholics, there are not as, you know, that's not as innate to Catholicism, this constant shilling for Israel.
[01:05:03]  So Catholics, I think, by and large, do not struggle with that problem to the same degree that Protestants do on the Zionist issue.
[01:05:12]  But Catholicism, I think that there are many Catholics resisting globalism.
[01:05:19]  But Catholicism as a position, I think it leaves the left flank vulnerable to globalism.
[01:05:30]  Let's continue reading from this message from again, Pope Leo XIV for the 111th World Day of Migrants and Refugees.
[01:05:36]  This is from the actual statement itself, a longer message.
[01:05:39]  And he says this In a special way, Catholic migrants and refugees, so just they're Catholic, they're migrants, they're refugees, they're Catholic, can become missionaries of hope in the countries that welcome them, forging new paths of faith where the message of Jesus Christ has not yet arrived, or initiating inner religious dialogue based on everyday life.
[01:05:57]  And the search for common values.
[01:05:59]  With their spiritual enthusiasm and vitality, they can help revitalize ecclesial communities that have become rigid or weighed down, where spiritual desertification is advancing at an alarming rate.
[01:06:09]  Their presence then should be recognized and appreciated as a true divine blessing, an opportunity to open oneself to the grace of God who gives new energy and hope to His church.
[01:06:20]  Does that sound familiar?
[01:06:23]  Am I reading the World Economic Forum?
[01:06:24]  Yes, but no, like, I mean, like, how.
[01:06:28]  How applicable is that?
[01:06:30]  How tempting would it be if you were a Catholic priest in America today to read that and think, for such a time as this?
[01:06:39]  Right?
[01:06:39]  I mean, look at it.
[01:06:40]  It's like places with their spiritual enthusiasm and vitality, they can help revitalize ecclesial communities that have become rigid and weighed down, where spiritual desertion is advancing at an alarming rate.
[01:06:55]  Right.
[01:06:55]  Well, wouldn't we all, Protestant and Catholic alike, say that about America?
[01:06:59]  About these United States.
[01:07:00]  Specifically, Europe too, it's even worse.
[01:07:02]  Yeah, exactly.
[01:07:03]  Well, Europe, you've got all these empty churches, you know, and the Muslims are coming in.
[01:07:09]  So stop the Muslims coming in.
[01:07:10]  Nope.
[01:07:11]  Why don't we counterbalance it by, you know, we took in 5 million Muslims.
[01:07:16]  So let's take in 15 million Catholics from South America and, you know, even it up.
[01:07:23]  Their presence, the Pope says, should be recognized and appreciated as a true divine blessing.
[01:07:27]  Right.
[01:07:28]  So you better be enthusiastic.
[01:07:30]  And again, we know guys, they're young men, they're Catholic, they want to save America and Europeans.
[01:07:34]  That's what we're trying to distinguish in saying Catholicism versus Catholics.
[01:07:37]  But they would look at this and we know and go, ugh, don't like that.
[01:07:41]  Yeah, so we recognize that.
[01:07:42]  We have a lot of young Catholics that we're friends with that they would be like, mm mm, hate it, hate it, you know, and God bless them, God bless them, right?
[01:07:53]  But it's worth noting that on paper, Catholicism, right?

=== Globalist Tensions Within Catholicism (04:17) ===

[01:07:59]  So we're not talking about the young, you know, based white Catholic, you know, who's.
[01:08:05]  You know, following Nick Fuentes or something like that.
[01:08:07]  He's at the Latin Mass five days a week.
[01:08:09]  Right.
[01:08:09]  We're not talking about that.
[01:08:11]  We're not talking about Catholics.
[01:08:12]  We're talking about Catholicism.
[01:08:14]  And Catholicism does leave the door, quite literally, the door of a country wide open.
[01:08:22]  Yep.
[01:08:22]  Right.
[01:08:22]  Well, this country's struggling with spiritual desertion.
[01:08:25]  This, our country, you know, a lot less people are coming to church.
[01:08:29]  So let's open it up and let's get Honduras.
[01:08:33]  Don't be racist.
[01:08:34]  Let them in.
[01:08:34]  Don't be racist.
[01:08:35]  Let them in.
[01:08:36]  Honduras and Mexico and Canada.
[01:08:39]  Cuba and this and that.
[01:08:41]  And what I'm saying is Haiti like 56% Catholic?
[01:08:44]  Yes.
[01:08:45]  Well, that's the thing is like, so when Taylor Marshall said, well, you know, Spanish Catholics is different than Somalians.
[01:08:53]  Okay, but you've just said that Catholicism, your religion, trumps ethnicity.
[01:08:58]  Well, religion in eternal matters, religion trumps ethnicity for us too.
[01:09:03]  Of course.
[01:09:04]  Right.
[01:09:04]  Of course.
[01:09:05]  Our brothers in Christ, spiritual brothers in Christ, is on the top of that hierarchy.
[01:09:10]  But for temporal and worldly affairs, just because someone is a Christian, even if they're a Protestant Christian, doesn't mean they get to live in America.
[01:09:20]  Whereas, but what Taylor Marshall seemed to be saying, and being as charitable as possible, is he seemed to be saying Somalians, no, but Spanish Catholics, yes.
[01:09:31]  I can't help but hear that and think that what he's saying is the reason why no to Somalians is not just because they're Somalians, but more particularly because they're Muslim.
[01:09:40]  I think that was the implication there.
[01:09:42]  The Muslim Somalians, no.
[01:09:44]  But the Catholic Spanish, yes.
[01:09:47]  Okay, well, what about the Catholic Haitians?
[01:09:51]  Over half the country of Haiti is Catholic.
[01:09:55]  So, you know, and they're the kinds of Catholics that will go to Mass.
[01:09:59]  Yeah.
[01:09:59]  And then they will also eat your dog.
[01:10:02]  They will go to Mass and then eat a massive meal of your pets.
[01:10:06]  Of your pets.
[01:10:07]  Yeah.
[01:10:07]  Yeah.
[01:10:07]  What about that?
[01:10:08]  Yeah.
[01:10:08]  And I think that I like to think about in terms of sort of proclivities or downfalls, right?
[01:10:13]  So we recognize that in Protestantism, Zionism is a real challenge.
[01:10:17]  And for every one of Joel, there's three, four, five Zionists.
[01:10:21]  But I mean, Dr. Taylor Marshall, I think he also said something to the effect of, I'm one of the biggest critics of Catholicism.
[01:10:27]  So, even in that, implicitly recognizing, like, I am, yeah, maybe I don't agree with this entire message from Pope Leo.
[01:10:33]  Like, maybe I would tweak language here and there, but we look at the scorecard and it's like, well, for every one of you, how many good, you know, Pope respecting Catholics are there that take this message and to your point, Joel, act on it, vote on it, so on and so forth.
[01:10:47]  So, yeah.
[01:10:48]  So, don't let your priest get away with it.
[01:10:49]  You're Catholic, you're there, you're committed, you want to save the West.
[01:10:52]  Hold the line.
[01:10:53]  Don't let your priest get away with it.
[01:10:54]  Say, hang on, hang on.
[01:10:55]  This would destroy our nation.
[01:10:57]  Please, respectfully, don't buy into it.
[01:11:00]  Right.
[01:11:00]  And then simply the challenge there, I think, becomes just the mechanism in Catholicism.
[01:11:05]  It's a lot more challenging.
[01:11:07]  I think, just in it being hierarchical, you're not going to necessarily win people on arguments or theological, biblical arguments because you have the Pope saying something contra to the point you're making.
[01:11:18]  And so that's where I think in Protestantism, we have it a little bit easier with respect to actually moving out of this trap of Zionism.
[01:11:27]  Versus what Catholicism is facing.
[01:11:29]  So that's just also important to note.
[01:11:31]  I do think that Protestants can consistently, Protestants are Zionist.
[01:11:36]  Okay.
[01:11:37]  So like we want to be fair and point fingers at ourselves and, you know, at our friends across the aisle.
[01:11:44]  Protestants are Zionist.
[01:11:46]  But this would be my position in a nutshell Protestants are Zionist, but Protestantism, historic Protestantism, does not necessitate Zionism.
[01:11:56]  Catholics, many Catholics are not globalist, but Catholicism.
[01:12:02]  If consistently followed as it currently stands, I think it does lead towards the implication of globalism.
[01:12:09]  Pope Francis, for sure, was a big push in immigration and all that.
[01:12:12]  So we're talking the last two popes.
[01:12:14]  Right.
[01:12:15]  15 years, two popes.

=== Are Protestants Consistently Zionist (04:07) ===

[01:12:16]  I just, that's the tail of the tape.
[01:12:18]  A decade and a half running.
[01:12:18]  A decade and a half running.
[01:12:19]  And so, in a nutshell, I would say that I think Protestants are being inconsistently Zionist.
[01:12:26]  I think some Catholics are being consistently globalist.
[01:12:31]  And that's my concern.
[01:12:32]  And I wanted to make it clear.
[01:12:34]  And also, we just wanted to be able to respond to the interview because it was a banger.
[01:12:38]  It was awesome.
[01:12:39]  So many good things.
[01:12:40]  That's just one part of it.
[01:12:42]  The vast majority, we agreed.
[01:12:45]  You agreed on soteriology?
[01:12:47]  No.
[01:12:48]  We didn't talk about it.
[01:12:48]  We didn't talk about soteriology.
[01:12:50]  We know we disagree.
[01:12:51]  We know we disagree.
[01:12:53]  And if Dr. Taylor Marshall wants to take me out to a nice steak dinner and wine and dine me to talk about soteriology, I am happy to finish the steak first.
[01:13:04]  All right, because I want to make sure that he gets the bill, let him get the bill, and then start going over, you know, all my Protestant talking points.
[01:13:13]  Um, I got to get the steak dinner first, and then you know, and then hit him with a uh, with some Luther quotes.
[01:13:18]  But, um, but yeah, but that wasn't the point of the interview.
[01:13:21]  We didn't have him on to talk about soteriology, so yes, we had a lot of agreement, political agreement.
[01:13:26]  But this was one of the areas where, outside of theology, in the realm of politics, we disagreed, and uh, and we did you know, some charitable pushback.
[01:13:36]  I just thought it would be great.
[01:13:37]  Monday morning quarterback to go ahead and review the tape.
[01:13:41]  All right, so here we go.
[01:13:42]  A few housekeeping items.
[01:13:44]  Number one, we've got 1,617 people streaming live right now.
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[01:15:52]  Response M, M as in ministries, at right response M. Last thing, we're going to go to our final commercial break and then we're going to deal with the chat.
[01:15:59]  We're going to be taking questions.
[01:16:01]  We always prioritize super chats first.
[01:16:03]  We've already got some Mondo super chats, which we are very, very appreciative for.
[01:16:09]  So thank you guys for doing that, supporting this ministry.
[01:16:12]  We're going to deal with the super chats first.
[01:16:14]  If you've got a question and it's burning and you want it to be answered, the one guarantee is if you send us a super chat because we're always going to prioritize the people who are being generous towards this ministry.

=== Prioritizing Generous Super Chats (07:42) ===

[01:16:24]  For the rest of you, if you're not able to do that, we understand.
[01:16:27]  You can get a question in if we have time, we'll get to it.
[01:16:30]  But if it's not with a super chat, then you need to somehow distinguish, you know, so we know it's not just you arguing with, you know, a Muslim in the chat or whatever.
[01:16:38]  You need to say question, da and get your questions in so that we can answer them when we come back for the third and final segment after this last commercial break.
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[01:18:17]  Hello, brothers in Christ.
[01:18:18]  Let me ask you something real.
[01:18:20]  Are you truly protecting and providing for your wife and children?
[01:18:24]  Not just in this life, but the one to come.
[01:18:27]  Here's a reality check only 45% of adults in America have life insurance, and of those, nearly two thirds are underinsured.
[01:18:36]  That's not good stewardship.
[01:18:38]  And as Christian husbands and fathers, we're called to do better.
[01:18:42]  But what if you could protect your family's future and wisely grow your wealth right now?
[01:18:48]  That's where private family banking comes in.
[01:18:51]  It's a proven strategy that allows you to leverage your existing cash flow, build tax free legacy wealth, and give your family lasting security, all while aligning with your biblical call to provide and protect.
[01:19:06]  This is what it looks like to turn post mill talk into post mill action.
[01:19:11]  Tap the link in the show notes.
[01:19:13]  To book your free discovery call and take your next step toward financial discipleship and multi generational impact.
[01:19:28]  All right, here we go.
[01:19:29]  Here we go.
[01:19:29]  Okay, super chat starting with BJJ wins again.
[01:19:33]  BJJ wins again.
[01:19:34]  He's been to our conference.
[01:19:35]  He's come out and visited the church.
[01:19:37]  Great brother.
[01:19:38]  Awesome guy.
[01:19:39]  He gave us $10.
[01:19:40]  We appreciate that.
[01:19:41]  I'd like to see 20 next time.
[01:19:43]  We appreciate that.
[01:19:44]  BJJ wins again.
[01:19:45]  You've been generous.
[01:19:46]  You've been kind.
[01:19:47]  He prays for us.
[01:19:48]  Great, great guy.
[01:19:49]  He said, just met a local Methodist pastor.
[01:19:52]  He used to be full rainbow woke.
[01:19:55]  Read some John MacArthur and his delusions shattered and he became.
[01:19:59]  Full Zionist woke.
[01:20:01]  Oh, no.
[01:20:01]  I'm just kidding.
[01:20:02]  No, he said, I read some John MacArthur.
[01:20:04]  His woke, you know, LGBT mafia delusions were shattered.
[01:20:08]  Praise God.
[01:20:08]  John MacArthur was stalwart on that issue his entire life, did a wonderful job.
[01:20:13]  He's now in regular communication to go full Crusader CN in our town.
[01:20:20]  We are winning.
[01:20:20]  Praise God.
[01:20:21]  Man.
[01:20:21]  That's great.
[01:20:22]  That's an awesome story.
[01:20:23]  That's awesome.
[01:20:23]  And John MacArthur is in glory.
[01:20:25]  Praise God for his ministry.
[01:20:26]  We disagree on the leaky dispensationalism and the affinity for Jews, but John MacArthur did a lot of good.
[01:20:33]  We're grateful.
[01:20:33]  Okay.
[01:20:34]  Next one, Antonio, you want to take it?
[01:20:36]  Yeah, Inevitable Kerfuffle sent $10.
[01:20:38]  Thanks for that.
[01:20:39]  And says Dr. Taylor Marshall posting that John Calvin was only 26 when he published the Summa, but I can't think of another 26 year old making some historic waves.
[01:20:50]  Maybe it's time to start listening to young people again.
[01:20:53]  I have no idea.
[01:20:53]  Thanks for that compliment.
[01:20:54]  I have no idea what, yeah.
[01:20:56]  He must be talking about you, Antonio, because you're 26.
[01:20:59]  Yeah.
[01:20:59]  The only other guy I could think of is 27.
[01:21:02]  Right?
[01:21:02]  It's true.
[01:21:03]  That's true.
[01:21:03]  So I don't know.
[01:21:04]  John Calvin, generational run at 26.
[01:21:06]  Someone else, a generational run?
[01:21:08]  Yeah, somebody.
[01:21:08]  Yeah, there's a couple guys.
[01:21:09]  Antonio?
[01:21:10]  Yeah, of course.
[01:21:11]  Antonio's definitely on a generational run.
[01:21:13]  Are you kidding me?
[01:21:14]  But I mean, Institute.
[01:21:15]  There are some episodes where Antonio gets like legitimately six or seven minutes of talk time.
[01:21:20]  Six whole minutes.
[01:21:21]  Whole minutes.
[01:21:22]  That's fantastic.
[01:21:22]  It's just beautiful.
[01:21:24]  But I mean, John Calvin, the Institute's at 26.
[01:21:26]  Like, the picking point on him is not that he was 26.
[01:21:28]  It's like, my goodness.
[01:21:30]  And to be fair, Antonio, you've said this.
[01:21:31]  He was revising them throughout his life.
[01:21:33]  So, the final version we have of the Institute's is not what he originally had, but.
[01:21:37]  I was not writing that at 26.
[01:21:38]  No, yeah, John Calvin was smarter at 26 than I'll be if I live to be 86.
[01:21:45]  So here's the thing we have a Bible verse for this.
[01:21:48]  I'm not trying to be cliche, but it's the word of God.
[01:21:50]  It matters.
[01:21:51]  Do not let anyone despise you for your youth, but rather set an example through this, through that.
[01:21:58]  And Calvin did that.
[01:21:59]  And he's not the only one.
[01:22:01]  So it's not to say Calvinists are the only ones who had young guys who were high caliber and exemplary.
[01:22:07]  No, there have been young guys throughout all of history.
[01:22:12]  But this idea of like, well, why don't you listen to me because I'm older?
[01:22:16]  I'm willing to hear any older man.
[01:22:19]  But hearing and then just by default agreeing are two different things.
[01:22:25]  I will hear you and I will do my best to hear you respectfully, but I'm allowed to disagree.
[01:22:32]  I wish that we could say, you know what, every older man has more wisdom and more giftedness.
[01:22:41]  Than every younger man.
[01:22:42]  But that has never been the case and currently is also not the case.
[01:22:47]  Yeah.
[01:22:47]  So good comment.
[01:22:48]  We appreciate that.
[01:22:50]  All right.
[01:22:51]  Antonio, take the next one.
[01:22:52]  Yeah, Justin.
[01:22:53]  Justin James E. sent $50.
[01:22:56]  All right.
[01:22:56]  That's great.
[01:22:57]  Says, keep up the good fight, guys.
[01:22:58]  Enjoy the show.
[01:22:59]  God bless.
[01:23:00]  Thank you for that.
[01:23:01]  Very kind.
[01:23:02]  That's awesome.
[01:23:02]  All right.
[01:23:03]  Wow.
[01:23:04]  This is a big one.
[01:23:05]  Mondo super chat $500 from Kodiak, Kodiak Joe.
[01:23:14]  Nathan's yelling something from the back.
[01:23:16]  What's up?
[01:23:17]  Top guy.
[01:23:18]  He wants to be a top guy.
[01:23:19]  I think he's ready.
[01:23:21]  He said, Thank you so much, Kodiak.
[01:23:23]  We really, really, really appreciate this.
[01:23:25]  He said, When the church tried to feminize Christ, I strayed into false paths, but none were my God.
[01:23:33]  Right Response Ministries' bold preaching of King Jesus stirred me to rise as a husband and father, breaking my family's curse of divorce.
[01:23:43]  At Christ is King Conference, the conference that we just recently held, I shook hands with brothers and speakers from the Ogden boys to Orrin McIntyre, but, he said, Nate is the true king behind the camera.
[01:24:00]  He misspelled Joel.
[01:24:01]  I think he meant to say Joel is the true king in front of the camera.
[01:24:06]  So that's a typo.

=== Breaking The Curse Of Divorce (03:49) ===

[01:24:07]  We'll forgive it.
[01:24:08]  It's a $500 super chat.
[01:24:11]  No, Nate couldn't do it without Nate.
[01:24:13]  We're super grateful for him.
[01:24:14]  That was great.
[01:24:15]  Thank you.
[01:24:16]  We appreciate it, Kodiak.
[01:24:17]  Wes, you want to take the next one?
[01:24:18]  All right.
[01:24:19]  Efficient tip $10 super chat.
[01:24:22]  I will be visiting your church in two weeks.
[01:24:24]  Hope to meet you all there.
[01:24:25]  Christ is king.
[01:24:26]  Awesome.
[01:24:26]  We will be there.
[01:24:27]  I will unfortunately be out of town helping my parents.
[01:24:29]  They're actually moving to the area, but you will be there.
[01:24:32]  You'll be there.
[01:24:33]  You will miss your flight, Wes.
[01:24:34]  Right.
[01:24:34]  You can go after it.
[01:24:35]  It's the Lord's Day, and Wesley will be there, or he will be excommunicated immediately.
[01:24:40]  Yeah.
[01:24:41]  No.
[01:24:42]  Okay.
[01:24:43]  Next one, Antonio.
[01:24:44]  Yeah.
[01:24:45]  Mostly peaceful merchandise.
[01:24:48]  Yep.
[01:24:48]  Sent $4.99 and says Christians have brought an effeminate fire extinguisher to a flood for decades.
[01:24:56]  Thank you for thinking in categories and addressing real problems.
[01:25:00]  So true, King.
[01:25:01]  Thank you.
[01:25:02]  We appreciate that.
[01:25:03]  Yeah, that's, I think, an apt illustration.
[01:25:07]  We're not saying that fires don't exist and that fires don't require fire extinguishers, but it just seems silly right now in the world that we currently live in, where, you know, at any moment we could go into World War III.
[01:25:25]  At any moment, we could be, there is a tipping point.
[01:25:30]  And honestly, we could have already hit it.
[01:25:32]  It does not feel like we're getting mass deportations, and we have taken millions, tens of millions of people.
[01:25:37]  They just posted stats that said 55 million with work visas, foreigners, and another 50 million illegal aliens.
[01:25:47]  Guys, we're talking about 100 million.
[01:25:50]  100 million.
[01:25:51]  You're talking about a third of the country.
[01:25:53]  Why do we have a housing shortage, for the record?
[01:25:55]  I'm interested in that question.
[01:25:56]  No, seriously, when you think about housing, it's like, oh, well, we got to get control of costs.
[01:26:01]  Okay, look, crony capitalism is a problem.
[01:26:03]  We've talked about that.
[01:26:04]  We'll talk about it more in the future.
[01:26:05]  But there's also a little thing called supply and demand.
[01:26:09]  It's pretty basic.
[01:26:10]  Like, what do you do if a third of the houses in your country are all of a sudden available?
[01:26:16]  Housing goes down.
[01:26:17]  Right.
[01:26:18]  Like, part of what has made houses impossible to afford is that you have 30 Indians on H 1B visas, two of them on H 1B visas, and then 28 of other Indians that come along.
[01:26:30]  Chain migration.
[01:26:31]  Yep.
[01:26:31]  Yep.
[01:26:31]  Chain migration.
[01:26:33]  We need grandma.
[01:26:33]  We need our great great aunt.
[01:26:35]  We need this person.
[01:26:36]  We need that person.
[01:26:38]  And that, you know, and they'll co sign for each other to live in the same house.
[01:26:41]  So, Americans, their boomer parents won't give them money.
[01:26:44]  They won't co sign for them.
[01:26:46]  So, they're on their own.
[01:26:47]  They can't move into this home, but it'll be a $600,000 home.
[01:26:50]  And three families with three tech workers with inflated salaries, they'll all go co sign onto it.
[01:26:55]  So, they then live in a home that could have been for an American.
[01:26:58]  And then, half your neighborhood, maybe they're all nice people, half your neighborhood is people that don't even speak English.
[01:27:03]  Well, how did this happen?
[01:27:05]  H 1B worker visas, them co signing onto it.
[01:27:08]  And all of a sudden, boom.
[01:27:09]  Now, here's the solution to the people.
[01:27:11]  Skyscrapers in Topeka, Kansas.
[01:27:16]  Yeah, so yeah, taking a fire extinguisher to a flood is a bad idea.
[01:27:22]  We reserve our disagreements with Rome in terms of theology, in terms of soteriology, and those disagreements are significant and profound.
[01:27:32]  And we have talked about it before.
[01:27:33]  We will talk about it again.
[01:27:35]  However, at the same time, to not realize that right now we are being flooded, flooding is a good term, right?
[01:27:41]  Fire extinguisher, when you're in the middle of a flood, we have a flood of immigration.
[01:27:47]  And we have a flood of Islam, and we have a stranglehold of Zionist control in these United States.

=== Floods Of Immigration And Islam (15:24) ===

[01:27:56]  And to not look at those things and recognize we have the tech right that wants to usher in essentially says, Well, I'm not the Antichrist, but you're building the framework for, you know, like that wants to usher in transhumanism.
[01:28:15]  We have some massive, massive cultural and political problems.
[01:28:20]  And we can't afford to shoot guys who are willing to say, hey, I'll fight with you.
[01:28:26]  And the Catholic thing, I tell my Catholic friends this there's gonna come a point where it probably comes to blows.
[01:28:31]  Right now, we're working together in these cultural things, but I recognize this is not an in perpetuity thing.
[01:28:35]  So there will come a point, and we can be honest and say, hey, there's gonna have to come a point where we decide what America is.
[01:28:40]  And it might be a little rough.
[01:28:44]  We're not in naively thinking, just for all time, in perpetuity, we have this strange arrangement where it's just like, we have these cultural issues and this cultural thing, and we'll fight in that, and we'll keep all of our discussion to it.
[01:28:54]  There comes a point to discuss and revisit Trent again.
[01:28:57]  That time is not right this moment.
[01:29:00]  Yep, I've said it several times.
[01:29:01]  I said it over all the baptism debates for the last two years, three years, four years.
[01:29:08]  And I said again and again, reaching across the aisle with guys who are Protestant, but between Credo and Pado, and saying, look, these kinds of debates matter, but they are the luxury of when Christendom is reigning.
[01:29:24]  When Christendom has taken root, And it's reigning supreme.
[01:29:30]  I really do believe that the intramural battles are battles that are a luxury of being on the winning team.
[01:29:39]  But when you're surrounded by millions of Muslims, when Hollywood and your universities and your government and your banks are overrun by Zionist Jews, when drag queens are in your schools with your children, like, Then, no, no, I'm sorry.
[01:29:59]  Like, I want to argue as much as the next guy.
[01:30:03]  I really do.
[01:30:04]  And, but it's like, that's a reward.
[01:30:08]  That's you, and you got to earn it.
[01:30:11]  You got to fight back first.
[01:30:12]  And then, you know, the dwarves and elves and men can battle.
[01:30:16]  But right now, we're talking about orcs, right?
[01:30:20]  The dwarves and the men and the elves can all hash it out.
[01:30:23]  Will this be the kingdom of men?
[01:30:24]  Will it be the kingdom of the elves?
[01:30:26]  Will it be the kingdom of the dwarves?
[01:30:27]  Right?
[01:30:28]  Okay.
[01:30:29]  Okay.
[01:30:29]  But first, You've got a wicked wizard sending in just mountains of orcs who do not discriminate.
[01:30:38]  They will kill elves and humans and dwarves alike.
[01:30:41]  And so, the idea that politically, not theologically, not in our churches, not in our pulpits, but politically and culturally, can we link arms, men, elves, dwarves, to fight orcs?
[01:30:56]  I think we can.
[01:30:57]  I think we must.
[01:30:58]  I think we must.
[01:30:59]  This is from Nick Bonner, 9261.
[01:31:02]  He gave us his.
[01:31:03]  $20 super chat.
[01:31:04]  Nick, we appreciate it.
[01:31:05]  He's a regular.
[01:31:06]  He's been super faithful.
[01:31:07]  We're very grateful for you.
[01:31:09]  Thank you so much.
[01:31:10]  He says, My dispensationalist uncle recently told me that he believes there are virtually no Catholic Christians.
[01:31:19]  He considers Catholicism a cult.
[01:31:22]  The evangelical church could use a little more ecumenicalism for optimal cultural impact.
[01:31:31]  Let's talk about this for just a moment because I do think that this is important in terms of no Catholic Christians.
[01:31:43]  This is the angle, the direction that I would like to tackle this.
[01:31:48]  And I'll start by posing a question to Antonio and Wes.
[01:31:51]  I'll give it to you, Wes, because we've talked about it.
[01:31:53]  I know what your answer will be.
[01:31:54]  And then I'll hear what Antonio says, and then I'll follow up, bring up the rear.
[01:31:59]  What is your ultimate hope and prayer for Rome, for the Roman Catholic Church?
[01:32:06]  If Christ tarries for 500 years, 5,000 years, what are you hoping to see happen to Rome?
[01:32:14]  Go on the record and correct a number of mistakes.
[01:32:18]  I think, even of a, I believe it was a papal bull decrying that anyone that wears a wool scapular made of 100% wool adorning the Virgin Mary will be released from purgatory on something like the third Saturday.
[01:32:28]  It's pretty ridiculous.
[01:32:30]  For the Roman Catholic Church.
[01:32:30]  And they have to stand by it.
[01:32:32]  Yes.
[01:32:32]  You have to say, like, this was said to go back, whether it be Unum Sanctum, Trent, Vatican II, some problems there, for Rome to go back and say, hey, these were wrong and we're taking them back.
[01:32:45]  That would be, I think, 5,000 years.
[01:32:46]  It's going to take time, but that would be my prayer.
[01:32:49]  So, the Catholic Church removed or the Catholic Church reformed?
[01:32:52]  Reformed.
[01:32:53]  So, you agree with Martin Luther?
[01:32:56]  The guy who started Protestantism.
[01:32:58]  So, you have the historic Protestant view.
[01:33:00]  Right.
[01:33:01]  Yeah.
[01:33:01]  What do you think?
[01:33:01]  Same.
[01:33:02]  Yeah.
[01:33:02]  I would say, I was going to say, the Reformation, my prayer, my hope is that the Reformation works.
[01:33:07]  Yes.
[01:33:07]  And I don't, I don't, I'm not blackpilled on that.
[01:33:11]  I think it will.
[01:33:12]  Yes.
[01:33:13]  Yep.
[01:33:13]  Same for me.
[01:33:14]  So, all three of us are in agreement.
[01:33:16]  And I think that that is one of the stark disagreements that we have with some of our Protestant and Reformed brothers and sisters is that we believe that there are many regenerate Catholics, despite some of the teachings, some of the teachings of Catholicism.
[01:33:32]  Why?
[01:33:33]  Why would there be regenerate Catholics?
[01:33:36]  Well, because there are always going to be inconsistent people.
[01:33:41]  There's always going to be guys like Taylor Marshall himself.
[01:33:44]  I can't speak to his soul, I can't speak to his heart.
[01:33:47]  God is omniscient.
[01:33:48]  But he said on our podcast, there are many sharp disagreements that he has with Catholicism.
[01:33:54]  He's like, I do not like that we did this.
[01:33:58]  I do not like that we did that.
[01:34:00]  So our prayer is that, like Martin Luther, Martin Luther did not ultimately want to leave the Catholic Church.
[01:34:07]  He nailed his 95 theses on the door, you know, the Wittenberg door, because he wanted to be able to discuss them.
[01:34:16]  And he wanted, he was working on it.
[01:34:18]  It wasn't a theatrical thing.
[01:34:19]  That's why it was called the rest.
[01:34:20]  Reformation.
[01:34:20]  People forget this.
[01:34:21]  It's like, well, I'm reformed.
[01:34:23]  Reforming what?
[01:34:24]  Reforming.
[01:34:25]  Rome.
[01:34:26]  Forming something again.
[01:34:28]  Yes.
[01:34:30]  They wanted to reform Rome.
[01:34:32]  Luther wanted to reform Rome.
[01:34:34]  And Rome at the time was not having it.
[01:34:36]  And I would say that, you know, skip 500 years later, they're still not having it.
[01:34:40]  Yeah.
[01:34:40]  They're still not having it.
[01:34:41]  Yeah.
[01:34:42]  And that's kind of my, also, but that's the goal.
[01:34:44]  Yeah, exactly.
[01:34:45]  I think even a historical interpretation or you think about the American project, it really was Protestants fleeing.
[01:34:51]  Persecution, simply to make the protest, to continue to try to make a case for the Reformation.
[01:34:59]  And so, if you interpret history that way, then of course, obviously, we've gotten to a point where there's so many other more prescient issues that we can't even really focus on that.
[01:35:08]  But that is at the heart of the American experiment is to reform Rome.
[01:35:12]  Yep.
[01:35:13]  Yeah.
[01:35:16]  We want to see Catholicism reformed.
[01:35:19]  That is not, my heart is not that I think that it's, I think it would be a shame for a 2,000 year old church in Rome to, in the end, to fall.
[01:35:33]  And I believe that ultimately, because God is just, if there's not repentance, that it will fall.
[01:35:39]  But my hope and my prayer is that it will not fall, but that rather it would be reformed.
[01:35:45]  And so we want to see Roman Catholicism reformed.
[01:35:49]  We want to see a renouncement of some of the articles of Trent.
[01:35:54]  We want to see a renouncement of most, if not all, of Vatican II.
[01:36:00]  We want to see an acknowledgement of wrong and repentance from Rome.
[01:36:05]  And I think that there are many Catholics, not all of them, of course, not all of them, but there are many Catholics.
[01:36:11]  Who actually would agree with us and say, Yeah, I have problems with the Catholic Church too.
[01:36:15]  I believe that it is a true church.
[01:36:19]  And so I belong to this church.
[01:36:21]  But yeah, I would like to see Rome repent.
[01:36:27]  And on that note, I would like to see Protestants repent of a great deal of things as well.
[01:36:34]  And that's what you have to realize.
[01:36:36]  Again, it's not the 1600s anymore.
[01:36:40]  John Calvin, Is not representative of Protestantism.
[01:36:43]  You have to recognize, well, I'm Reformed Protestant.
[01:36:45]  I'm a part of the OPC.
[01:36:46]  You know, I'm a part of this or I'm a part of that.
[01:36:49]  Okay, great.
[01:36:50]  You represent 5%.
[01:36:52]  Maybe.
[01:36:53]  That's being generous.
[01:36:54]  Of Protestantism.
[01:36:56]  Think about this for a second.
[01:36:59]  You want to break down, if we had like a graph, you want to break down of Protestantism here in America?
[01:37:05]  Giant chunk of it, 30, 40, close to 50% of it, mainline Protestant denominations, all of them gay affirming.
[01:37:16]  Blue haired female pastors don't believe in a literal hell.
[01:37:22]  They're universalist.
[01:37:25]  Well, Catholics have embraced heresy.
[01:37:27]  You think Protestant, like mainline Protestants across the board, have embraced heresy.
[01:37:34]  Whether it's the Presbyterian version or the Baptist version, or at every single level, you go Baptist, you go Presbyterian, you go Anglican, you go Episcopalian, you go Methodist.
[01:37:43]  There is a mainline denomination within each of these veins.
[01:37:47]  And the mainline, The one that has all the property and has the church buildings and has this and the vestry and all these things.
[01:37:54]  They are gay affirming, universalist, don't believe in hell.
[01:37:58]  They are heretics.
[01:37:59]  They are heretics.
[01:38:00]  All right, well, but Joel, what about the rest of Protestants?
[01:38:02]  Okay, so that's 30 to 40%.
[01:38:05]  Okay, here's another 40 to 50%.
[01:38:08]  You ready for it?
[01:38:09]  Joel Osteen, TD Jakes, Joyce Meyer.
[01:38:14]  It is your mega church warehouse, smoke machine, laser light, prosperity, word of faith.
[01:38:23]  Gospel preaching, Zionist shills, that's your 40 to 50% of Protestants.
[01:38:31]  So 30 to 40%, mainline, gay, heretics.
[01:38:37]  40 to 50%, megachurch, also heretics.
[01:38:41]  Word of faith is a heresy, and Zionists to boot.
[01:38:46]  And then you've got 10, 15% of Protestants in America that are traditional Protestants, OPC, Some, maybe half of the SBC.
[01:39:00]  I'd like to think maybe 60%, maybe there's hope.
[01:39:04]  But it's a subset of denominations, and then only a portion, a subset of the subset of these denominations that haven't completely gone off the rails.
[01:39:15]  Some Reformed Baptists, some Reformed Presbyterian, a few Anglicans, like maybe two Episcopalians.
[01:39:24]  That's it.
[01:39:25]  That's it.
[01:39:26]  So when everyone is like, you're Reformed, you need to stick it to the Catholics.
[01:39:31]  And I'll be like, okay, like, do you believe that some Catholics, despite the problems with Catholicism, are regenerate?
[01:39:38]  Yeah.
[01:39:39]  How many?
[01:39:41]  Do you think maybe like, I feel like Abraham, you know, like talking him down.
[01:39:45]  Do you feel like maybe 10% of Catholics?
[01:39:48]  Well, yeah, maybe 10%.
[01:39:50]  Oh, great.
[01:39:50]  Okay, great.
[01:39:52]  So, pretty much the same as Protestants.
[01:39:56]  Pretty much the same as Protestants.
[01:39:59]  I think it's really helpful.
[01:40:00]  And I've done this for years now.
[01:40:02]  When I meet Catholics, I like to ask them, hey, I'm a Protestant, you're a Catholic.
[01:40:05]  What is your hope for salvation?
[01:40:07]  When you get up on the final day and you stand before God, What are you trusting in?
[01:40:11]  And to a T, and this may not be your experience.
[01:40:13]  And insofar as it's not your experience, you need to say, oh, you said Mary, or you said this, or the saints.
[01:40:19]  Hang on, brother, or hang on, friend, that's not it.
[01:40:22]  But 80, 90%, I mean, the most literally, it's a two word answer Jesus Christ.
[01:40:27]  What is your hope?
[01:40:29]  Jesus Christ.
[01:40:29]  He died for me.
[01:40:31]  So if you have someone that's saying, that is my belief, I'm a sinner, I'm in need of a savior, Jesus Christ died in my place at face value, not knowing their soul, not knowing their life.
[01:40:41]  At face value, I think of Romans that says, If you will confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart God has raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
[01:40:49]  For with the mouth one confesses and is justified, and with the heart one believes and is saved.
[01:40:54]  If someone is confessing, Yes, Jesus Christ is Lord and he died for me.
[01:40:57]  And on the third day, God rose him from the dead.
[01:40:59]  And who is Jesus?
[01:41:00]  He's the Son of God.
[01:41:01]  He's God himself.
[01:41:02]  He's sinless, born to the Virgin Mary.
[01:41:04]  At the very least, at face value, I'd want to give it above a 50% chance that the words of the Bible are true, that confessing Christ with your mouth and believing in him.
[01:41:14]  Yeah.
[01:41:15]  That is what the Bible says is to be saved.
[01:41:17]  Yeah.
[01:41:17]  So even if that's a tiny proportion, but there are Catholics and say 90%, what are you trusting in?
[01:41:23]  Well, the sinless blood of Mary then transferred to Christ.
[01:41:27]  It was actually her blood infused rather than impure.
[01:41:30]  And there's Catholics that have done that.
[01:41:31]  All right.
[01:41:32]  That is not, hang on.
[01:41:33]  No, it does not say if you will confess with your mouth, Mary was sinless.
[01:41:37]  But if you're telling me, looking me in the eyes, genuinely, as best I can tell, Jesus died for me.
[01:41:43]  I'm trusting in him.
[01:41:44]  I'm going to want to give people the benefit of the doubt and say, I hope to see you in heaven someday.
[01:41:49]  And I agree with the charity.
[01:41:50]  And I would just say, quick, you know, to that, I mean, where you do want to challenge them and where we do disagree is that we would add that qualifier alone, right?
[01:41:58]  And so that's something you could charitably and lovingly say, now, do you trust in anything outside of Christ, right?
[01:42:04]  And so you can, and so that's an important point.
[01:42:06]  If you want to push back, if you want to sort of make it about the gospel, you can make it about those issues.
[01:42:12]  But to, before that conversation, to assume that that's not there, I think is undue.
[01:42:19]  I don't think it's helpful.
[01:42:19]  I've seen the most reformed guys, this would be reformed forums.
[01:42:22]  So they're OPC guys.
[01:42:23]  They're reading through Voss.
[01:42:24]  They're reading through Vantel.
[01:42:26]  Say the same thing Rome is a true, but a very imperfect church.
[01:42:31]  These are the reformed guys.
[01:42:31]  This isn't me saying it.
[01:42:33]  Saying, like, hey, there are still people here and there.
[01:42:35]  They have their trust and faith in Christ.
[01:42:37]  Go up real quick.
[01:42:39]  Nathan, go to the comments.
[01:42:41]  I want to address someone, and I'm going to do it charitably because they've followed us for a long time, and I appreciate them.
[01:42:46]  But this is cosmic treason.
[01:42:48]  They say, Joel, you share your ecumenicism with Rome.
[01:42:52]  In common with Tim Keller, Rob Bell, Russell Moore, et cetera.
[01:42:56]  I just like to add another name Doug Wilson.
[01:43:01]  The people are saying, like, James White is right and you're going to swim the Tiber.
[01:43:06]  No, I'm not.
[01:43:09]  First, because of convictions.
[01:43:11]  Second, because I wasn't even willing to swim across the aisle on baptism.

=== Refusing To Swim Across The Aisle (08:55) ===

[01:43:20]  Like, for two years.
[01:43:22]  How long?
[01:43:22]  How long?
[01:43:23]  And how many comments on the internet people saying, Joel's going to swim, you know, he's going to become a Pado Baptist, he's going to do this, he's going to do that?
[01:43:30]  And everybody was.
[01:43:31]  Everybody was for two years.
[01:43:33]  Everybody was switching teams.
[01:43:35]  Jared Longshore, he moved to Moscow, left Founders.
[01:43:37]  Everybody was doing it.
[01:43:39]  And I didn't.
[01:43:41]  And I have strong disagreements with my Baptist brothers, but I didn't.
[01:43:45]  So you think I'm going to hold tight as a Baptist versus Presbyterian for three years as people incessantly putting pressure on me.
[01:43:56]  But then one day I'm just going to go ahead and say, you know what?
[01:44:00]  I've been thinking about Presbyterianism for three years.
[01:44:03]  But Catholicism, that's what I'm going to do.
[01:44:05]  We had Taylor Marshall on.
[01:44:06]  I'm doing it.
[01:44:07]  Yeah.
[01:44:07]  Like I've been partnering with Pado Baptist for three years, right?
[01:44:12]  I've been in Brian Sauvay's home.
[01:44:14]  I know his children.
[01:44:16]  He's been in my home, knows my wife, knows my children.
[01:44:20]  I've been hanging out with Andrew Risker.
[01:44:21]  I've been doing this with, you know, this guy and that guy and all this kind of stuff.
[01:44:25]  But I had one Catholic on the show, and then I'm going to become Catholic.
[01:44:32]  That's just.
[01:44:34]  Cosmic treason, I appreciate you.
[01:44:36]  That's foolish.
[01:44:38]  And you should know better because you have been following us for quite a while.
[01:44:42]  You should know better.
[01:44:43]  And if you want to talk about being ecumenical, here's the thing it's like, well, James White, you know, he's right.
[01:44:52]  You know who James White's not criticizing?
[01:44:55]  Doug Wilson.
[01:44:56]  You know who he's happy to go and visit, happy to partner with, happy to do this, happy to do that?
[01:45:02]  Doug Wilson.
[01:45:03]  Doug Wilson had E. Michael Jones.
[01:45:06]  On his show, who is a known devout Catholic, he literally teaches and at ab nauseam, at great lengths, that the reason why Europe and America are going to hell in a handbasket is the Enlightenment?
[01:45:21]  Nope.
[01:45:22]  Secular humanism?
[01:45:23]  Nope.
[01:45:23]  Wait for it.
[01:45:24]  Islam?
[01:45:25]  Nope.
[01:45:26]  The Reformation.
[01:45:29]  He hates the Reformation, he hates Reformed theology.
[01:45:33]  He is, he's not, it's not that he is, um, Well, he speaks about this and he's, you know, and then as just a misnomer, he happens to be Catholic.
[01:45:43]  No, he believes that is the secret sauce.
[01:45:45]  Lock, stock, and barrel.
[01:45:47]  Lock, stock, and barrel.
[01:45:48]  So, Catholic, you know what else he is?
[01:45:50]  Let's just throw it out there.
[01:45:52]  Now, I don't like this word.
[01:45:54]  I don't think it's a helpful word.
[01:45:55]  But according to the masses, according to the ADL, according to, you know, the neocons, according to pretty much everyone in the country, E. Michael Jones is not only Catholic, he is a renowned anti Semite.
[01:46:10]  He wrote a 1500 page book on the revolutionary spirit, the Jewish revolutionary spirit.
[01:46:16]  So for him, he's like, two things ruin the world Jews and the Reformation.
[01:46:22]  Doug Wilson has him on the show, knowing that, having read it, and says, You know what?
[01:46:26]  You're an anti Semite and you hate the Reformation and Catholic.
[01:46:31]  Could you come on the show again?
[01:46:34]  Run it back.
[01:46:35]  Back.
[01:46:36]  Twice.
[01:46:37]  Twice.
[01:46:40]  Where's the outcry?
[01:46:41]  Where's the backlash?
[01:46:43]  Where's James White wringing his hands?
[01:46:46]  Where is it?
[01:46:47]  Like, well, I went and talked to him privately.
[01:46:49]  Talk to me privately.
[01:46:52]  Right?
[01:46:53]  What, what, I don't.
[01:46:54]  So, this idea of like, well, this is Doug Wilson has, he literally has a debate with James White from like a thousand years ago.
[01:47:03]  They're both fairly old at this point.
[01:47:06]  And I remember watching it back in the day and rooting for James White at the time, you know, many such cases, you know, rooting for James White where they're arguing over baptism.
[01:47:18]  Is a baptism performed within the Catholic Church if it be in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit?
[01:47:27]  A valid baptism.
[01:47:28]  Now, it wasn't a debate whether or not the Catholic Church is a true church.
[01:47:32]  It wasn't a debate whether or not the Catholic Church has held on to the true gospel.
[01:47:35]  It wasn't a debate over this, over that, or Mariology, or all the rest.
[01:47:39]  But it was a debate over the validity of baptism.
[01:47:43]  And Doug Wilson's defending position was yes, this is a true baptism.
[01:47:47]  If someone was baptized as an infant or an adult in the Roman Catholic Church and they come to Christ Church in Moscow, we are not going to rebaptize them.
[01:47:58]  We're going to view that as a legitimate baptism.
[01:48:02]  And Doug Wilson, and I'm not picking on anybody.
[01:48:06]  Doug Wilson, I think, has done a good job.
[01:48:08]  Obviously, we have our disagreements.
[01:48:09]  He's not a fan of me, but I'll give honor where honor is due.
[01:48:14]  Doug Wilson has done a good job.
[01:48:15]  He has held this position consistently for decades, and he has never become Catholic.
[01:48:22]  He hasn't got pretty dang close with some of the federal vision stuff, you know, like pretty close, but never became Catholic.
[01:48:29]  Catholic.
[01:48:30]  And despite those affinities and those partnerships, James White was willing to partner with Doug Wilson and continues to partner with Doug Wilson, which, again, I don't have a problem with.
[01:48:42]  I'm just saying, let's be consistent.
[01:48:45]  I'm over here and I'm talking about, I'm not talking about, well, we should, you know, we should partner in our churches or we should partner, you know, in evangelistic crusades or we should, but I'm saying politically and culturally, absolutely, I think we need to partner.
[01:48:58]  And I would like to see Rome reformed.
[01:49:01]  By the grace of God over time, rather than simply just removed from the face of the earth.
[01:49:07]  And I would like to see Protestantism reformed likewise.
[01:49:11]  Because if I'm doing the math, if I'm doing the math, at least here in America, Protestants and Catholics, and how many of them hold to heretical doctrines?
[01:49:22]  Whether it be word of faith over here with Protestants or whether it be.
[01:49:27]  I never had a church.
[01:49:29]  Yeah.
[01:49:30]  Like straight up with Catholics or, you know, adding works to the gospel or whatever it may be.
[01:49:36]  There are millions, millions on both sides.
[01:49:41]  And that's something that I think we need to recognize.
[01:49:43]  So, all right.
[01:49:46]  So, Nick jumped in, gave another $20 super chat.
[01:49:48]  Super kind.
[01:49:49]  He just had another point on my beloved Disby uncle, as I think his views are typical of many Baptists.
[01:49:54]  I would say they are.
[01:49:55]  He particularly hates the papacy because it has a history of anti Semitism.
[01:49:59]  It's hard not to criticize boomer evangelicals.
[01:50:03]  Well, good news in the 60s, after, so obviously after Nuremberg and all of that.
[01:50:08]  There's a bunch of Jews that lobbied the Catholic Church prior to Vatican II, and they actually added a statement in there that condemned anti Semitism.
[01:50:15]  So, again, based on young right wing men.
[01:50:18]  Apologies, but hardest hit.
[01:50:19]  So, it is Catholic doctrine on the books now, Vatican II.
[01:50:22]  It's called like a Nostro Arete or something like that.
[01:50:26]  It starts with an N, starts with an A.
[01:50:28]  And good news for your uncle, the Catholic Church isn't anti Semitic anymore.
[01:50:33]  Bad news for the Catholic Church.
[01:50:34]  Bad news for the Catholic Church.
[01:50:35]  Good news for your uncle.
[01:50:37]  Just to follow through Cosmic Treason, he responded to what I just said.
[01:50:41]  And was very charitable and kind.
[01:50:42]  I appreciate it.
[01:50:43]  He said, Cosmic Treason says, the fact that I've been following you is partly why I'm invested, why I care, why I'm making these kinds of comments.
[01:50:51]  It's because I care.
[01:50:52]  I'm not just, you know, online trashing you.
[01:50:55]  I'm just genuinely concerned about some trends, but you haven't given me a reason to condemn you.
[01:51:01]  I appreciate that.
[01:51:01]  And then he said, I've benefited from you a lot, which is why I don't want to see you compromise.
[01:51:06]  You raised good points about Doug.
[01:51:08]  I don't think the old guys are dead wrong in their concerns, though.
[01:51:13]  And if it's possible, it's so necessary to have them as counselors.
[01:51:19]  If it's possible, having older men as counselors is important.
[01:51:22]  I agree with that.
[01:51:23]  Please try to seek reconciliation.
[01:51:27]  And he said, for what it's worth, I do think that they sinned against you.
[01:51:30]  Appreciate that.
[01:51:32]  And I don't know, I'll give you an update 10 years from now.
[01:51:37]  You know, if we're able to bury the hatchet, we'll see.
[01:51:42]  But I appreciate that, Cosmic Treason.
[01:51:44]  You've been very kind.
[01:51:45]  And I wasn't trying to pick on you, but you just, you know, there's lots of guys.
[01:51:51]  You know this.
[01:51:51]  You watch the show, you see the chat, lots of guys in the chat who are just trolling.
[01:51:54]  I responded to you because I know you're not trolling.
[01:51:57]  I know that you've been around, I've seen you.
[01:51:59]  For at least a couple years now.
[01:52:01]  And so I felt like you merited a response.
[01:52:03]  For you guys who are your top guys with Right Response, you matter.
[01:52:09]  You matter to us.
[01:52:10]  And so we want to let you know that we're listening.
[01:52:14]  You're saying something in the chat.

=== Getting Ready For More Division (07:48) ===

[01:52:15]  We're actually reading it.
[01:52:17]  We don't always respond live on air, but we're reading it.
[01:52:19]  We're taking it to heart.
[01:52:21]  And the guys who've been around for a while that we know care about us and who haven't been slandering us, that are praying for us, that have generously sought to support us.
[01:52:32]  What you say carries weight, and we listen and we are prayerfully considering.
[01:52:38]  I appreciate you.
[01:52:40]  All right.
[01:52:40]  Any final thoughts?
[01:52:41]  That's all I got.
[01:52:42]  I think we can end it on the conference.
[01:52:43]  Someone asked about dates and updates.
[01:52:45]  Yeah, let's pull it up.
[01:52:46]  So, somebody was asking, you know, what's up with the conference?
[01:52:50]  Can we get an update?
[01:52:51]  So, this is Cameron Stevenson, good guy, faithful guy.
[01:52:54]  Can we get an update on next year's conference?
[01:52:55]  Maybe a sneak peek regarding the themeslash main topic of discussion, guest speakers, et cetera.
[01:53:01]  I'm bringing my whole family next year.
[01:53:04]  Well, Spoiler alert, it will be all Catholic speakers.
[01:53:09]  Calvin Robinson, Michael Jones.
[01:53:12]  Yeah, Taylor Marshall, every single one of them.
[01:53:16]  No, we intentionally are holding off.
[01:53:19]  We have talked about this ad nauseum as a team behind the scenes in preparation and trying to strategize.
[01:53:26]  And I don't know.
[01:53:30]  We have some ideas.
[01:53:31]  We're not really ready to unveil anything as of yet.
[01:53:35]  But we have some ideas.
[01:53:36]  The dates, we're holding the dates because we sold tickets at our previous conference that we had, and people signed up with those dates in mind.
[01:53:45]  And so I think we've sold close to about 300 tickets physically right there at the conference that we just had.
[01:53:53]  And the dates that we set, that we told everybody back then, and we want to honor and hold to these dates, is Thursday, March 19th through Saturday, March 21st.
[01:54:04]  Okay, so Thursday, March 19th through Saturday, March 21st, the year of our Lord 2026.
[01:54:08]  So, we're going to hold to those dates in terms of theme and speakers.
[01:54:13]  First, I really need to kind of settle the theme.
[01:54:16]  And with the theme, part of what I'm trying to settle is not just the topic, but the strategy.
[01:54:22]  What are we trying to accomplish?
[01:54:24]  And that's kind of what we've been talking about behind the scenes, offline as a team is where do we go from here?
[01:54:33]  What do we do?
[01:54:34]  Because honestly, I said this on the panel of our conference.
[01:54:40]  This past year.
[01:54:40]  And I think a lot of people did not understand what I was saying at the time.
[01:54:44]  It's like one of those things, it's like, you're not going to like this, but your kids are going to love it.
[01:54:48]  You won't get it.
[01:54:49]  But this is what I see.
[01:54:51]  And I know that it's going to pan out to be right.
[01:54:54]  And you will start to see it eventually.
[01:54:56]  You don't see it now, but you will.
[01:54:57]  And one of the things I said is I remember talking to some of the conference speakers.
[01:55:02]  I remember talking to the Ogden boys, for instance, and saying, hey, I think they were saying, we went through a lot of division.
[01:55:11]  2020, the dark ages, 2020 through 2024, with the Biden presidency, we had St. George Floyd, we had BLM, we had COVID, we had all these different things.
[01:55:21]  And Mass immigration, but now we have a Trump victory.
[01:55:25]  And so maybe all the fault lines have finally gone off, right?
[01:55:32]  Maybe now the dust can settle.
[01:55:33]  You know, like there was division with some of you guys probably don't even remember this.
[01:55:38]  Maybe you're new to the game, but 2022, it was the great battle of CN, you know, the battle between G3, Fontgate 2022, right?
[01:55:49]  It was a terrible travesty that happened.
[01:55:52]  There was Fontgate.
[01:55:54]  That G3 used that was used for the Christian nationalist statement.
[01:55:59]  It wasn't my idea personally, but we did do it.
[01:56:02]  And that was a big hullabaloo.
[01:56:06]  So there was a battle over Christian nationalism.
[01:56:09]  Can we have a Christian nation?
[01:56:11]  G3 was basically arguing the same talking points as Hillsdale.
[01:56:14]  Hillsdale's like, write that down.
[01:56:16]  Yeah, Hillsdale is like three years behind.
[01:56:19]  Kevin DeYoung in Hillsdale is like, we're on the cutting edge of something that everybody was talking about three years ago.
[01:56:24]  You're taking the worst talking points.
[01:56:25]  G3 deserves credit in that sense, at least.
[01:56:28]  At least you know, they were making the terrible talking points about, well, his kingdom is not of this world, but at least they were making those terrible talking points three years ago.
[01:56:34]  There's multiple accounts making those talking points, yes, multiple right.
[01:56:38]  So, the MacArthurites, the G3 guys, everybody was like, Christian nationalism, it'll never happen because Jesus said, My kingdom is not of this world.
[01:56:47]  You can have a Christian ministry, a Christian podcast, a Christian school, a Christian family, but you will never have a Christian nation.
[01:56:55]  Um, it was retarded, um, but uh, we've been there, we've done that, and so there was you know, there was fallout.
[01:57:01]  You guys remember that.
[01:57:02]  There was the great fallout over Christian nationalism with G3 and MacArthur.
[01:57:07]  There was the great fallout over the juice in 2023 and 2024 with Apologia and Ezra Institute and Moscow on one side and Ogden and me and others.
[01:57:22]  Andrew Isker, the famous meme, What if it's not envy?
[01:57:26]  And the meme heard around the world, it did numbers and all that kind of stuff.
[01:57:31]  Moscow ended up having to turn off the comments on that video where Isker was on with them because.
[01:57:37]  It was a 10 to 1 ratio of people, you know, siding with Iskar against Moscow.
[01:57:43]  And so, you know, that was another battle.
[01:57:45]  And I think, guys, you know, when, you know, talking to guys, you know, at our conference, they're like, maybe we're, you know, maybe we're finally done.
[01:57:52]  The fault lines have finally, you know, the dust has settled.
[01:57:54]  The fault lines have all gone off.
[01:57:55]  There's no more new ones.
[01:57:58]  And now we can unite.
[01:58:00]  And I remember telling them personally and then telling everyone on the panel, I said, get ready for more division, not less.
[01:58:09]  Get ready for more division, not less.
[01:58:11]  Because I think the same kind of principle, right?
[01:58:16]  So, the same concept that we said about arguments about baptism, this or that, we said, what did we say?
[01:58:22]  The intramural divisions is the luxury of winning.
[01:58:26]  It's a luxury of winning.
[01:58:27]  And so, if Christendom is reigning, let's argue about baptism until we're blue in the face, right?
[01:58:34]  And you can afford to divide over it, right?
[01:58:36]  Because when Christendom is reigning, you literally have, I mean, still in our America towns from a bygone era, Right, you can tell that the nation used to be Christian.
[01:58:44]  How can you tell?
[01:58:46]  Because you can go to towns and there's literally like Church Street.
[01:58:50]  It's literally the name of the street downtown, right in the center of the town.
[01:58:53]  And there's not one church, there's 50, right?
[01:58:58]  Methodist, First Baptist, Second Baptist, 14th Baptist, you know, Presbyterian, another Presbyterian, different kind of Presbyterian, Episcopalian, Anglican, Catholic, you know, like, and just boom, all the way down the line.
[01:59:12]  And what does that symbolize?
[01:59:13]  What that symbolizes is that there was a time.
[01:59:17]  When Christendom was reigning in America and they could afford the luxury of maintaining their distinct particulars, I want to worship in a church with this group and we disagree on what?
[01:59:33]  The Trinity?
[01:59:34]  No, we disagree.
[01:59:36]  There's primary theology, there's secondary, there's tertiary.
[01:59:39]  No, we disagree on like third tier, fourth tier, fifth tier.
[01:59:43]  And we're going to start a whole other church because of like a fifth tier disagreement.
[01:59:48]  Why?
[01:59:49]  Because everybody in town is Christian.
[01:59:52]  Because we can afford to, right?
[01:59:55]  It's a different calculus when you're on the ropes.
[02:00:00]  And so, my same point of like, hey, you know what?

=== Starting A New Church Over Minor Disagreements (09:55) ===

[02:00:04]  Right now, I think we need a little bit of unity on the cultural and political side of the equation when it comes to Catholics.
[02:00:14]  Well, the moment we start winning and solidify that victory, that unity will dissipate between Protestants and Catholics.
[02:00:23]  The moment that we secure a Christian nation, And fend off the Muslims and the atheists and the Jews and everybody else and the gay mafia, then you're going to see that feud between Catholics and Protestants.
[02:00:36]  It's not going to just go away.
[02:00:38]  You're talking about centuries old feud and nobody's forgotten.
[02:00:42]  And those things have not been ironed out.
[02:00:44]  The distinctions, the differences are still there, the divisions are still there.
[02:00:48]  They're just not the chief priority right now.
[02:00:51]  But they will be if the things that right now are a chief priority get solved and Christendom is reigning.
[02:00:58]  Well, On the flip side, so this is kind of reverse, that's macro.
[02:01:02]  In the micro, we just had a Trump election.
[02:01:07]  And my prediction that I said at the conference was because of Trump being elected, because he's going to lock down the border, I don't know if we get the mass deportations, but lock down the border, you're not going to have the craziness of wokeness and BLM and these kinds of things that we had before.
[02:01:26]  I actually think that for a lot of people, this will be the temptation for a lot of people, they're going to say, This is enough.
[02:01:35]  This is enough.
[02:01:36]  This is good.
[02:01:37]  Got what I voted for.
[02:01:39]  Got what I voted for.
[02:01:42]  You know, commercials are a little less gay.
[02:01:45]  You know, they're putting a little bit of the woke away.
[02:01:48]  A little bit of the woke is getting put away.
[02:01:50]  Commercials are a little less gay.
[02:01:52]  Immigration has slowed down.
[02:01:56]  And, you know, they're starting to arrest people when they commit crimes again and actually, you know, punish people.
[02:02:03]  And, you know, That's good.
[02:02:06]  And because I knew that people would think that, I'm talking about some of our guys will think like that.
[02:02:12]  Trump is in power.
[02:02:15]  Let's lock in, right?
[02:02:17]  Because Trump is in power.
[02:02:19]  JD Vance is a successor.
[02:02:22]  And we don't want to ruin our chances because we might get influence.
[02:02:28]  We might, you know, hate JD Vance, you know, one of us, one of us, one of us.
[02:02:35]  Whereas, I'm not of that persuasion.
[02:02:39]  I don't think that JD Vance is one of us.
[02:02:42]  And so I said at the conference, I said, because this will be perceived as a victory in the objective, yes, it's better than Kamala.
[02:02:49]  There is a victory.
[02:02:51]  But at the same time, there's a ton of victory that we haven't even scratched the tip of the iceberg.
[02:03:00]  We've gotten some victory objectively, but subjectively, I knew that in terms of perception, some guys would view it as this is enough.
[02:03:09]  Got what I voted for.
[02:03:11]  This is enough victory.
[02:03:12]  And the moment that that happens, here's the deal.
[02:03:14]  Again, I said, intramural divisions is the luxury of victory.
[02:03:19]  And so, if you have on the team guys who perceive something as a major victory, then they will be comfortable starting to divide, starting to divide.
[02:03:31]  And so, for us, we've made, and I think this is clear, I think you guys know what team we're on and where we're headed.
[02:03:39]  We made a clear calculus, deliberate and intentional, and we said, it's not enough.
[02:03:44]  We did not get what we voted for.
[02:03:47]  It's not enough.
[02:03:49]  And we are going to chimp and we are going to push further, demand further.
[02:03:57]  We are not content with the tech right and Peter Thiel.
[02:04:02]  We are not content with borders closed, but there's 105 million people here who shouldn't be here.
[02:04:09]  And you need 105 million mass deportations.
[02:04:13]  Well, we're on schedule for 2 million.
[02:04:16]  We're not content.
[02:04:17]  With that.
[02:04:18]  And so we are continuing to talk about things that we think need to be talked about.
[02:04:23]  And so, because of that, I don't think that the team has gotten broader.
[02:04:29]  I think the team has gotten exponentially narrower, exponentially narrower.
[02:04:35]  And so, we have to decide, and these are guys we love.
[02:04:38]  So, I'm not saying anything negative about anybody.
[02:04:41]  We love, we are still friends.
[02:04:43]  But we have to decide in terms of forward facing.
[02:04:47]  With something like a conference, what is the strategy?
[02:04:51]  What's the purpose of a right response conference?
[02:04:54]  What are we trying to achieve?
[02:04:56]  What are we trying to accomplish?
[02:04:58]  Are we going to push the envelope?
[02:05:00]  Are we going to keep pushing the envelope?
[02:05:02]  Are we going to have the kind of conversations that we think need to be had?
[02:05:06]  Are we going to talk about the tech right?
[02:05:09]  Are we going to talk about ushering in transhumanism?
[02:05:12]  Are we going to talk about Elon Musk, Peter Thiel, David Sachs?
[02:05:20]  JD Vance, are we going to talk about these things?
[02:05:23]  If so, well, just to be frank, that makes the drawing pool a lot shallower for not who I would be willing to have, but honestly, who would be willing to come to that conference and share that stage?
[02:05:45]  And so, unfortunately, I don't have a better answer for you at this time.
[02:05:51]  But part of the reason we are intentionally going to delay on giving more details about topic, theme, speakers with the conference is Trump won, and all of our guys are doing the calculus.
[02:06:09]  And everybody, here's the deal like to steel man it, to be as charitable as possible, everybody has a different goal based off of what they're doing.
[02:06:19]  It's based off of what they're doing.
[02:06:21]  Right, some guys like they're trying to win the SBC, God bless them, noble endeavor.
[02:06:26]  But if you're trying to win over normie boomers in the SBC, you're probably not going to go and do a conference pointing out Jewish power, you're just not.
[02:06:41]  Some guys are working towards, you know, a future position in, you know, or at least the potential of getting the call for a Vance administration pick in 2028.
[02:06:58]  Well, some of the things that we're saying are not conducive with that aim.
[02:07:05]  And so we've got to think, we've got to make a careful and deliberate determination.
[02:07:14]  Of what we want the conference to accomplish.
[02:07:20]  And we may, there is serious consideration that we're about this close.
[02:07:26]  I don't want to give too much away, but we're about this close to determining this year we're going to cap the conference.
[02:07:33]  That we're going to intentionally say, you know what?
[02:07:37]  We're only going to let like 400 people come instead of 1,000 like we did this year by design.
[02:07:44]  We're going to cap it at 400, we're going to turn away a ton of people.
[02:07:49]  We may even do some like reserve 50 tickets that are invite only so that the guys that we know see what we see and are on board with what we're on board with so that they get in and then not broadcast any of the conference, not make any of it available to the public, do a symposium, bust out some whiteboards, do some serious strategy, allow for QA.
[02:08:19]  And brainstorming, strategizing, planning with the conference attendees.
[02:08:28]  This is what we're doing.
[02:08:29]  This is practically how we're going to achieve it.
[02:08:32]  We need guys in this field and in this field and this field, this location, this town, this state.
[02:08:38]  We're going to win this way.
[02:08:41]  That's kind of at this point where I'm leaning.
[02:08:46]  And so it would be very different than what we have done thus far.
[02:08:51]  And intentionally so, by design.
[02:08:54]  And you will hear eventually, because we'll have to make a decision eventually, you'll hear eventually an official public statement about this is our conference, this is what it's on, this is who's coming, and this is what we're doing.
[02:09:10]  But we, right now, we haven't fully gone there, but I would say, at least I'll speak for myself, I am on the precipice of making that decision.
[02:09:22]  Uh uh, we're going to pivot.
[02:09:25]  We're going to go this direction.
[02:09:26]  We're going to cap it.
[02:09:27]  We're going to do this thing.
[02:09:29]  And we're going to only open it up, both speakers and attendees alike, to a select few because we have to win.
[02:09:38]  And people think we already won.
[02:09:41]  And I don't think we have.
[02:09:43]  I actually think that there is a bigger enemy lurking, a bigger enemy lurking.
[02:09:50]  And we need to talk about it.
[02:09:52]  And we need guys who are willing to talk about it with us.
[02:09:55]  And not everybody is.
[02:09:56]  So.
[02:09:57]  That's the thought.
[02:09:59]  Okay.

=== Pivoting Toward A Select Few (01:58) ===

[02:10:00]  Is that it or did we get one more?
[02:10:01]  We got one more.
[02:10:02]  Brandon Raby, he gave us $20.
[02:10:05]  Thank you so much.
[02:10:06]  Super chat.
[02:10:06]  We appreciate that.
[02:10:07]  He said, God bless you guys.
[02:10:09]  Keep up the great work.
[02:10:11]  And he says, shut up and take my money.
[02:10:13]  God bless you.
[02:10:14]  All right.
[02:10:15]  That's it for the week.
[02:10:16]  And we will see you.
[02:10:19]  Well, so we'll be actually, all four of us, me, Antonio, Wes, and Nathan, will be in Florida.
[02:10:26]  And we are going to be.
[02:10:29]  Strategizing and prepping some stuff with Elijah Schaefer.
[02:10:32]  I'll hop on a couple shows with him, but we're also going to be strategizing.
[02:10:35]  We're doing some things with Rift TV and preparing some future things that'll be announced, getting ready for that.
[02:10:42]  I'm excited about that.
[02:10:44]  And so we're going to be doing that next week.
[02:10:46]  So if you want to watch us live, tune in to Rift TV and you'll see me doing some stuff with Elijah Schaefer talking about Protestantism, talking about how to get Protestants, wean them off of Zionism, and get them back on track.
[02:11:02]  And in terms of right response, what we've done is we've worked double time.
[02:11:08]  The last couple of weeks to prepare for this.
[02:11:10]  So, we have fresh content.
[02:11:12]  It's not going to be a bunch of reruns.
[02:11:14]  We've recorded multiple fresh, never seen before episodes, but they are pre recorded.
[02:11:20]  So, we won't be doing super chats.
[02:11:22]  We won't be engaging live with the audience.
[02:11:25]  There'll be shorter episodes since we're not doing the super, they won't be hour and a half, two hour Mondo episodes.
[02:11:30]  They will be 60 minute episodes, but on fresh, never seen before content, prescient topics.
[02:11:37]  I think you'll be blessed by it.
[02:11:38]  So, we're not leaving you hanging, not leaving you with nothing.
[02:11:40]  We thought about you and we prepared, did double work so that the show can go on.
[02:11:45]  For you, the people.
[02:11:46]  For you, the people.
[02:11:47]  So thanks for tuning in and check out our content that we have pre recorded for next week.
[02:11:52]  And if you want to see me live with Elijah Schaefer, tune in to Rift TV and then we will be back the following week, Lord willing.