NXR Podcast - THE LIVESTREAM - The Madness and Immorality of Surrogacy
Aired: 2025-03-21
Duration: 01:37:33


=== Algorithmic Reviews for Ministry Growth (05:04) ===

[00:00:00]  Leave us a five star review on your favorite podcast platform.
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[00:00:16]  You and I both know that this ministry is willing to talk about things that most ministries aren't.
[00:00:21]  We need this content for the glory of God to reach more people's ears.
[00:00:28]  We are entering an age where children are made, not begotten, commissioned.
[00:00:33]  Not conceived, designed, and delivered to order, like a handbag or a custom suit.
[00:00:41]  These children's stories don't begin with a sperm and an egg, but with a signature and a lawyer.
[00:00:48]  And in the eyes of our culture, this is not a tragedy, it's viewed as progress.
[00:00:55]  Across the West, surrogacy is sold as compassion, an act of love for the infertile.
[00:01:02]  It is framed as fulfillment for the same sex couple.
[00:01:06]  It is presented as relief.
[00:01:07]  For the hopeful parent with no biological path forward.
[00:01:11]  But beneath the glossy language of choice and family lies a darker truth.
[00:01:17]  Children are being deliberately severed from their mothers, not by death, not by accident, but by design, and increasingly by commerce.
[00:01:28]  Recently, Jordan Peterson sat down with Katie Faust.
[00:01:32]  It should have been another routine exchange, thoughtful, careful, reasonable.
[00:01:38]  But it wasn't.
[00:01:40]  Foss confronted Peterson and, by extension, the moral schizophrenia of the modern right, a movement that claims to uphold the family even as it normalizes its destruction.
[00:01:53]  Surrogacy is not simply a medical option, it is a moral crisis.
[00:01:58]  It reorders the very foundations of parenthood, identity, and human dignity.
[00:02:04]  A society that affirms this practice will not remain a society for long.
[00:02:09]  Because no nation can endure that builds itself on the backs of children who have been severed from the ones who bore them.
[00:02:18]  This episode is brought to you by our premier sponsors, Armored Republic and Reese Fund, as well as our Patreon members and our faithful donors.
[00:02:28]  You can join our Patreon by going to patreon.com forward slash rightresponseministries, or you can donate by going to rightresponseministries.com.
[00:02:42]  In today's episode, we begin by defining what surrogacy really is, where it came from, how it's accelerating, and why it matters more now than ever.
[00:02:54]  Then we unpack the Peterson Faust conversation and expose why surrogacy is not just a cultural debate, it's a test of whether we still believe in human order and dignity.
[00:03:07]  So let's begin.
[00:03:24]  Nate, we lost something.
[00:03:30]  All right, GA, welcome back.
[00:03:32]  Here it is Friday, Friday afternoon.
[00:03:34]  We made it.
[00:03:35]  This is going to be our last live stream for the week.
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[00:03:52]  Today's topic, Michael, our very own Michael, has outlined this episode.
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[00:04:30]  Seven primary sessions, three different panels, which we're extremely excited about.
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[00:05:02]  Well, really looking forward to this discussion today.

=== Surrogacy and the Italian Context (15:43) ===

[00:05:04]  We are going to be talking about surrogacy and two things prompted it as I was thinking about what we wanted to do.
[00:05:12]  One was the article that we, not the article, the podcast that we mentioned in the Cold Open with Jordan Peterson, which was really eye-opening for me.
[00:05:20]  And then the other one was an article that I read recently from The Guardian, which is an online newspaper from England.
[00:05:28]  So I'm actually going to read that article out loud here in just a second.
[00:05:32]  Before we do, just in case the listener doesn't know what it is that we're Talking about with surrogacy, a quick definition.
[00:05:38]  This is something that would have been the stuff of science fiction nightmares 100 years ago, but here we are.
[00:05:47]  Surrogacy is the process whereby an embryo is implanted into the womb of a mother, well, a woman who is not the biological mother or what they call the intended mother who will be raising this child.
[00:06:05]  It's been presented as a compassionate way for couples who the woman in the relationship can't conceive for some reason.
[00:06:14]  And so they have another woman, they implant a fertilized egg from the intended couple into the womb of a separate third party woman who agrees to carry the child for the nine months.
[00:06:28]  And then upon birth, the child will be presented to the intended family and they will take that child home.
[00:06:34]  Basically, genetically, in most cases, if it's a male and female couple, which we'll get into same sex couples later, if it's a male and female couple, generally it is their genetic child in a sense because the egg came from the woman, the sperm came from the man, but it was grown in the womb of a separate woman.
[00:06:52]  Right.
[00:06:53]  And a lot of times that woman receives some sort of financial compensation, and the intended couple pays for the medical care and treatment, they pay for the delivery.
[00:07:06]  We'll get into some of the costs later on as well.
[00:07:09]  But basically, it is a person or people borrowing the womb of usually a total stranger for the purpose of that woman growing a baby in her womb that they would then take custody of, either adopting or it being their biological child to begin with.
[00:07:29]  So that's what we're going to talk about today.
[00:07:32]  This article in The Guardian is talking about a situation in Italy.
[00:07:37]  So we'll read the article and then I'm going to give a little bit of. historical background on the bill that it's referring to.
[00:07:44]  So the title of the article is Surrogate Parents Too Afraid to Return to Italy After Procreative Tourism Law.
[00:07:51]  Okay, it says this.
[00:07:53]  The Italian parents of a child who was recently born in the U.S. via surrogacy say they are too afraid to return home since Georgia Maloney's government enacted the West's most restrictive law against what she described.
[00:08:07]  This is the prime minister of Italy.
[00:08:10]  She described as procreative tourism.
[00:08:13]  The gay couple, so this is a gay couple from Italy who went to the U.S. and had a surrogate baby, the gay couple could be among the first Italians to be prosecuted under the law enacted in early December, which extended an outright ban on domestic surrogacy by making it a universal crime that transcends borders, putting them on a par, the gay couple that would be put on par with terrorists, pedophiles, and war criminals.
[00:08:39]  The measure can lead to prison terms of up to two years and fines of between 500 Thousand euros and a million euros.
[00:08:48]  The couple's son was born in San Diego, California in mid February.
[00:08:58]  That was just this year.
[00:09:00]  They are very worried about returning to Italy because there's the prospect of jail and fines.
[00:09:05]  Gianni Baldini, a lawyer for the pair who has made the case public on their behalf, told The Guardian.
[00:09:11]  They are now evaluating the possibility of remaining in the U.S. Maloney's far right brothers.
[00:09:18]  of Italy had long campaigned for those who seek surrogacy abroad to be criminalized.
[00:09:22]  After the law, which only applies to Italian citizens, was passed in Parliament in October, Maloney said it was needed to, quote, fill a regulatory gap to also prevent this inhuman practice of procreative tourism, end quote.
[00:09:37]  The measure is among several socially conservative policies pursued by her government in its quest to promote so-called traditional family values, the Guardian adding so-called there.
[00:09:49]  Until the international ban was enacted, an estimated 250 Italian couples sought surrogacy overseas because it had been illegal in Italy at that time.
[00:09:57]  The vast majority of them straight people who turned to surrogates for health reasons.
[00:10:02]  The practice is legal and regulated in 66 countries, although most Italians access the procedure in the U.S. or Canada where surrogacy is not specified on the birth certificate and where their child can obtain, here's this, immediate U.S. or Canadian citizenship.
[00:10:17]  Baldini believes there could be quote, a few dozen children who have been born abroad via surrogacy since the law was enforced.
[00:10:25]  We don't know how many couples are currently in this situation, but from cases I have assisted in the past, I do know that there are those who simply do not want to talk about it as they are afraid, he said.
[00:10:38]  I think I'm not going to finish all of that.
[00:10:41]  Nate, can you scroll down just to the bottom?
[00:10:46]  Okay, so the last, yeah, that's fine.
[00:10:48]  We'll end it there.
[00:10:50]  So in Italy, in 2004, actually, a law was passed that made surrogacy illegal.
[00:10:57]  But it did not criminalize an Italian citizen who travels abroad to collect a surrogate baby from another country and then bring that baby back to Italy as an Italian citizen or the child of that Italian family.
[00:11:13]  And so the law that was passed in October closed the loophole and made it illegal for parents to go abroad.
[00:11:19]  And this is something that bears a lot of similarity to states who would criminalize abortion here in the United States.
[00:11:27]  Would they be able to make it illegal to even go to another state?
[00:11:31]  And gain an abortion.
[00:11:33]  You know, if you're in Texas, you go to California.
[00:11:35]  Italy said, yeah, if you travel abroad, you get a surrogate baby, and you come back, we're throwing you in jail.
[00:11:40]  And I love how The Guardian pointed out that they would be classified on the same level as terrorists, pedophiles, and one other sort of heinous criminal.
[00:11:51]  So that's the article that I read last week from The Guardian that got me thinking about this.
[00:11:57]  And really, I didn't know a whole lot about it.
[00:11:59]  And so, gentlemen, any general comments on that before I go through some of the statistics here on surrogacy?
[00:12:06]  I think it's fascinating how different countries that in many ways in their policies wouldn't be explicitly Christian.
[00:12:11]  It's funny how, funny, but it is amazing that in God's providence, even they can see.
[00:12:16]  Like China banned recently, it was two years ago, they banned gay couples from adopting children.
[00:12:22]  This is China, led by the Chinese Communist Party, the CCP.
[00:12:29]  And they said it was the same thing with effeminacy in media.
[00:12:32]  So there was a ban on state media that included effeminate men.
[00:12:36]  And they said, gay couples, nope, we're done with that.
[00:12:38]  So then, same thing in Italy.
[00:12:40]  Honestly, that's pretty based on Maloney's part.
[00:12:42]  This is what you and I, Wes, we've been talking about just privately.
[00:12:49]  We've shared some of this publicly, but we've had more thorough conversations offline.
[00:12:53]  But people have no idea what's coming, right?
[00:12:57]  Even the chart that was posted just yesterday on X, a bunch of people were sharing it.
[00:13:01]  It was going semi viral that was showing, basically, it was showing college educated, or no, it was single men, married men, and then single men.
[00:13:13]  Men of color and women.
[00:13:15]  You're right.
[00:13:15]  It was white men and then white women.
[00:13:19]  Person of color males and then white females and person of color females.
[00:13:24]  And it was just showing that by age how much they affirm or stand apart from democratic values.
[00:13:34]  The percent gap between the two.
[00:13:36]  So the gap between the women of color and the men of color, the gap between women, white women, and white men.
[00:13:41]  Right.
[00:13:42]  And so, but what it showed was that, you know, that.
[00:13:46]  White males were by far the most conservative, and then a little bit less than that, immeasurably less than that, was white women.
[00:13:55]  And then people of color that are male, and then people of color that were female were the most liberal.
[00:14:02]  But then it also showed based off of age, and for the first time in a very, very long time, as far as I'm aware, with the white men in specific, those who were like 20 to 25 years old were actually more conservative.
[00:14:20]  Than those who are 70 to 75 years old.
[00:14:24]  And so, what people aren't realizing is that a backlash is coming that I think would be hard to even put into words.
[00:14:32]  I really don't think people understand what's coming just in the next five years, the next 10 years for sure, next 15 years.
[00:14:42]  The rubber band is going to snap back rather quickly.
[00:14:45]  We're already seeing the beginnings of that.
[00:14:46]  But if you think, and this is it, this is as far as it'll go, then I think you're going to get woke again.
[00:14:51]  Like these young men that woke up, what they're going to do is they're going to go back to the matrix, they're going to plug back into the pod and say, ah, actually, it wasn't that great out there.
[00:14:58]  Right.
[00:14:58]  No.
[00:14:59]  Yeah, you're underestimating just the raw energy and ability and ambition of young men.
[00:15:07]  And as they're realizing, you know, every day, you know, by the thousands, red pilling and realizing that their own countries have turned against them, that they have been betrayed and their futures have been sold out, and all these kinds of things.
[00:15:23]  And they're red pilling on nationalism, they're red pilling on, On race, they're red pilling on all these different things.
[00:15:32]  But my point is that, um, you could you brought up China?
[00:15:35]  Uh, I think like a lot of Christians, um, wrongfully assume that, uh, that in order to you know to to move to in a more conservative direction politically and culturally, that it requires you know a spiritual revival, that it's going to require a distinctly Christian revival, a bunch of a bunch of people ultimately converting to Christianity.
[00:15:58]  And and we've pointed this out on the show before that.
[00:16:01]  The decline that has been ongoing for decades now in America of Christianity has actually stopped and begun to even turn around, of which we're very, very grateful.
[00:16:11]  But we don't think that it's particularly helpful.
[00:16:13]  We actually do think that it's a pitfall of naivety to assume that any kind of cultural, political move to the right necessarily has to come by a widespread adoption of Christianity and Christian faith.
[00:16:33]  Not true.
[00:16:35]  Pagans were conservative.
[00:16:36]  Islam, Muslims are conservative.
[00:16:38]  China, so China's a great example to say, like, okay, it's like the Chinese, it's not just the Chinese people, because certainly there are millions of Chinese people and underground Christian churches, you know, and these kinds of things.
[00:16:51]  But you're talking about the CCP, you know, the Chinese communist government.
[00:16:58]  And they're not Christian, you know, but even for them, they're like, yeah, this doesn't help China.
[00:17:04]  It doesn't.
[00:17:06]  China needs to have children.
[00:17:07]  We need the birth rate has to go up.
[00:17:09]  And like this doesn't.
[00:17:10]  And so you don't have to be Christian to come into some of these natural observations.
[00:17:16]  And part of the reason why we address these topics, you know, again and again and again is because we want people to know that Christianity actually does deal with these things.
[00:17:28]  And we believe that it's true and it's the best foundation.
[00:17:32]  So we're trying in many ways to persuade young men, especially, to say, You're trending right culturally and politically.
[00:17:41]  Christianity can account for that better than any other ideology, any other religion on the planet, because young men are going to go, nations, the world is going right wing, whether it's El Salvador, whether it's Chile, all these different countries, Hungary, the whole world is trending that direction, and it's going to happen much more quickly than we expect, especially as this younger generation of predominantly white men.
[00:18:10]  Comes into age, and if Christians relinquish that space, then yeah, then they're going to be far right wing, regardless.
[00:18:21]  They'll just be pagan right wing or Muslim right wing or atheist Darwinian right wing or whatever.
[00:18:28]  And we want to say, no, Christianity accounts for this the best.
[00:18:32]  Christianity holds to all these virtues, but then also seasons it with grace.
[00:18:38]  All the other worldviews that you have to choose from, there will be zero mercy, zero grace.
[00:18:44]  It'll be rough.
[00:18:45]  Yeah.
[00:18:46]  And I'm hoping that with a topic like surrogacy, the right word trend will deal with it.
[00:18:53]  But.
[00:18:55]  I was thinking, like, why talk about this?
[00:18:57]  I'm going to get to the numbers in just a minute.
[00:19:00]  But can you imagine if when abortion was being contemplated, some nations came out strongly and said, yeah, we know it's only like a thousand a year, but actually, no, we're not doing this period.
[00:19:11]  And if you do this and if you go to another country to do it, when you come back, you're going to our jail.
[00:19:16]  Like, no one did that initially with abortion.
[00:19:19]  And so, while surrogacy is not nearly on the level, I mean, every time it happens is terrible, but it's not on the level of.
[00:19:28]  The great moral stain that abortion is.
[00:19:30]  Nevertheless, it's kind of ramping up right now.
[00:19:35]  And if we don't nip this in the bud, it would become, apart from God's grace and a rightward shift and everything, like we do have to take it seriously.
[00:19:44]  As I'll show some of the forecasts of the financials for some of these companies who are providing this, it is a growing trend.
[00:19:50]  And it's something that Christians need to be aware of because it gets presented as compassionate, as life affirming.
[00:19:58]  Even I could see Christians saying, well, this is part of the Christian duty because we're supposed to be fruitful and multiply.
[00:20:04]  And what about a mother who's infertile and she can't have a baby?
[00:20:08]  So we're actually helping her be fruitful and multiply.
[00:20:12]  So I was going to say infertility is probably going to rise too.
[00:20:16]  Yes.
[00:20:16]  This is Gen Z, they're children that have grown up.
[00:20:19]  Hopefully the trend is reversing, but in a world of toxic dyes, a world of toxic clothing, a world of endocrine disruptors, and they're going to reach their years where they're looking forward to having a child.
[00:20:29]  But they're going to realize, oh my goodness, I just am not going to be able to for one reason or another.
[00:20:34]  And so, to your predictions and the estimates of what's going to happen in the future, same thing, like fertility is going to keep going down.
[00:20:43]  And so, what will people turn to?
[00:20:45]  Artificial procedures like these.
[00:20:47]  Yeah.
[00:20:47]  So, what are the numbers?

=== The Danger of Artificial Creation (09:03) ===

[00:20:48]  Well, in the U.S., the first surrogacy officially was performed in 1985.
[00:20:54]  Go ahead.
[00:20:54]  Just real quick, I have to say this because you get this response.
[00:20:58]  Anybody who holds to, you know, even a semi biblical view of, Masculinity and femininity, you know, all the screeching, hackling hens come out, you know, on social media all the time in the comment section saying, like, under his eye, this is just the handsmaid's tale.
[00:21:17]  You know, they post the pictures and stuff.
[00:21:19]  Yes, yes, yes.
[00:21:20]  You know what I find funny about that?
[00:21:21]  You know, they always say, like, you know, like, doesn't Joel know that he's just a living, breathing, you know, fulfillment of the handsmaid tale?
[00:21:31]  Or doesn't he know that that book was supposed to be fiction?
[00:21:34]  Or they'll comment something along the lines of saying, like, wow, this book was pretty prophetic, right on the money.
[00:21:42]  Look at the patriarchy bros.
[00:21:44]  But what they don't ever realize is what about the other portion of the book?
[00:21:50]  Not what they did, but the set of circumstances, the context that created the need.
[00:21:59]  Whether what they did was right or wrong, I'm not supporting it.
[00:22:02]  I think it was wrong.
[00:22:04]  What about that?
[00:22:06]  And what I mean by that is like the whole premise of the Hans Mates tale is that nobody can reproduce anymore.
[00:22:13]  That they're doing this because all the liberals, with their birth control, with their hormones, with their toxic dyes, with all the chemicals in the water, with all these things, that eventually over time, what happened is that it got to a point where nobody could reproduce.
[00:22:32]  Very, very few people could reproduce.
[00:22:34]  And then that's what created, like, it was either the end of the human race.
[00:22:38]  Or some kind of very intense course correction.
[00:22:44]  And so people say, Oh, did they not read the Handsmaid's Tale?
[00:22:49]  This prediction is so accurate.
[00:22:51]  This is what Trump's doing, which is not even close.
[00:22:53]  Or this is what the patriarchy bros are doing.
[00:22:57]  And what they totally miss in the Handsmaid's Tale prediction or whatever is, yeah, but aren't you guys a little bit concerned about the first part of the story that made the entire story necessary?
[00:23:12]  The part where.
[00:23:13]  Humanity is going extinct because the birth rate through abortion, through hormonal birth control, through toxic dyes, through all that.
[00:23:22]  Like, what about that part of the story?
[00:23:24]  And Michael's right.
[00:23:25]  You know, he's going to get into the numbers here.
[00:23:27]  But as our birth rates continue to plummet, if that continues to happen, then eventually, like, surrogacy could become much more commonplace than it is right now.
[00:23:42]  Yeah.
[00:23:43]  So, right now in the US, now the numbers are going to seem to not add up.
[00:23:48]  The official stat is 750 babies in the US each year are born using surrogacy.
[00:23:54]  However, when you add up the number of pregnancies, there have been between 1999 and 2013, there have been 30,927 surrogate pregnancies.
[00:24:04]  And you would say, well, 750 a year, I know we're averaging, but that doesn't really add up to the 30,927 total pregnancies.
[00:24:13]  And that is true.
[00:24:14]  That is because surrogate babies have a higher in utero mortality rate.
[00:24:20]  They pose a lot of danger to the mother or the woman who is birthing or carrying that baby.
[00:24:28]  But as we're going to get into in just a second, they run screens and tests on all of the surrogate babies because that mother is basically the mother and the clinic are guaranteeing a perfect baby to the intended family.
[00:24:43]  And so any abnormalities in womb and those babies are just aborted.
[00:24:48]  In fact, one of the researchers who is advocating for surgery said that.
[00:24:54]  Surrogacy is really an ideal situation because we are allowed to weed out all of the defective babies.
[00:25:01]  And so because that clinic has promised a perfect baby to that intended family, any sort of abnormality or chromosomal issue, which is going to happen, and we're talking about a woman who's carrying a non-DNA child in her womb, there are complications.
[00:25:16]  And so while there are 750 per year, the number of attempted surrogacy pregnancies is quite a bit higher.
[00:25:22]  And they either die naturally or they get aborted.
[00:25:26]  It's not unthinkable, too, some of the far left Marxist literature, because when you break down all hierarchy, well, like a family has a hierarchy.
[00:25:33]  Men aren't incapacitated for nine months when they're pregnant.
[00:25:35]  And so far left Marxists have said when you deconstruct the economy and you make everyone flat and equal, you would have to have literally full surrogacy, as in no family owns a child.
[00:25:46]  So the ability to do this is actually factored into, and I mean, we're talking not like your grandma's a liberal who likes labor unions, but far left academic progressives have said, literally called for full surrogacy now.
[00:25:58]  Every child should be born through the surrogacy process, distributed around the community, because that's the best way we can remove the family ties.
[00:26:06]  That's the way we can make sure that love of father and love of homeland isn't passed down and we see Marxism fail in the future.
[00:26:13]  Nick, if you can put up a quote number one on the screen.
[00:26:16]  We need to go down.
[00:26:17]  It says this The best estimates from experts are that perhaps more than 300 agencies in the U.S. actively recruit women primarily to be gestational carriers.
[00:26:30]  This is the the basically just the walking womb.
[00:26:33]  That is to act as a surrogate for intended parents and carry a fetus to which the women bear no biological relation.
[00:26:41]  There are 300 agencies in the U.S. who are actively recruiting women to serve this function.
[00:26:45]  A years-long increase in demand has fueled what researchers sometimes call, quote, fertility tourism, end quote.
[00:26:53]  For example, this just kills me.
[00:26:56]  Wealthy Chinese parents often hope their children will receive the double benefit of guaranteed U.S. citizenship And access to the American school system by having their babies born here, not from a Chinese mother who comes here and delivers, but through an American surrogate mother, says Dr. Holly Caselli, chief of maternal fetal medicine at Rady Children's Specialists of San Diego.
[00:27:19]  And so it's not just American women who can't conceive who are buying into this surrogacy and paying for the surrogacy.
[00:27:29]  A lot of it, like we saw in the article from the beginning, are international couples with a lot of money, gay couples and straight couples, who are.
[00:27:38]  Hiring American women to be basically just a womb for them.
[00:27:42]  And it's calculated.
[00:27:43]  They're not doing it just in some country like Romania.
[00:27:47]  They're coming to the U.S. to do it because they want their child to have American citizenship.
[00:27:50]  They want the child to be able to stay, learn English, benefit from the education system.
[00:27:54]  All of these things are happening.
[00:27:56]  And 300 of these clinics or institutions, whatever you want to call them, around the U.S., actively looking for women to volunteer their wombs.
[00:28:06]  Wow.
[00:28:06]  This has been really dangerous.
[00:28:08]  I read several stories of women who have.
[00:28:12]  Done this multiple times because they need the money.
[00:28:14]  So they've had ectopic pregnancies or some sort of like extreme gestational diabetes where the woman herself has been sick the entire time.
[00:28:29]  So it's really quite tragic.
[00:28:32]  Let me go to one more quote from this and then we'll hit the commercial break.
[00:28:36]  Okay.
[00:28:37]  Nate, can we go to quote number two, please?
[00:28:41]  All right, so second, embryos created via IVF.
[00:28:45]  So this is the other thing is all of these embryos that get implanted, they have to be created via IVF.
[00:28:51]  They are commonly genetically tested, this is what I was mentioning earlier, for major chromosomal abnormalities through PGTA testing and sometimes tested for inherited genetic diseases through PGD testing.
[00:29:03]  Testing for genetic conditions is almost three times more common in these pregnancies as compared with non, that's the type of surrogacy, IVF cycles.
[00:29:13]  Selecting chromosomally normal embryos through PGTA testing or genetic screening eliminates one cause of spontaneous or elective abortion that conventional pregnancies cannot eliminate.
[00:29:23]  As a result, GCs are less likely to have a medical abortion than pregnant mothers in conventional pregnancies.
[00:29:30]  However, what they're not saying is all the embryos that are created in the petri dish that get tested, they're acting like it's only an abortion if it gets implanted in the woman's womb and then aborted.
[00:29:42]  But all of those embryos that we covered this a couple weeks ago that are tested are just discarded, right?
[00:29:48]  Because they're not sufficiently healthy or genetically healthy enough.

=== Private Family Banking Sponsorship (02:02) ===

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=== The Slippery Slope of Profit (07:02) ===

[00:31:54]  America is a country that was founded for the purpose of allowing Christians to do their duty before God, not to have their consciences ruled by the doctrines and commandments of men.
[00:32:02]  Reese Fund exists in order to see the Ten Commandments properly applied, not just as a plaque on the wall, but to actually be used in business as though they're commandments from God that we're supposed to obey.
[00:32:13]  Our goal is to find businesses and to buy them and to build them up.
[00:32:18]  We want to find manufacturing businesses and use them to make sure that we can maintain our capacity to do things here.
[00:32:24]  Reese Fund, Christian Capital, boldly deployed.
[00:32:31]  All right, welcome back.
[00:32:33]  So, we're talking about surrogacy and just the fact that it is rapidly increasing, not only in the U.S., but around the world, in spite of some countries seeing it for the problem that it is.
[00:32:44]  There are 66 countries in the developed world that, or 66 countries in general, that do allow for it to happen.
[00:32:52]  A couple things that people are going to ask.
[00:32:56]  What is the percentage of same-sex couples that look to surrogacy?
[00:32:59]  Well, about 40% of surrogate adoptions, if you want to call it that, are from same-sex couples.
[00:33:08]  That's running statistics from Canada and the UK where they actually track it.
[00:33:14]  In the U.S., it's a little harder to tell because it's not regulated by the federal government.
[00:33:18]  And so these agencies don't have to report who's adopting.
[00:33:22]  But they estimate about the same amount, about 39% in the U.S. are same-sex couples.
[00:33:27]  You mean in our rush to follow the social contagion that we quickly allowed for a very unnatural type of union?
[00:33:34]  Yes.
[00:33:34]  And we have no reporting and no understanding, no guidelines to follow.
[00:33:37]  And so now, I mean, children are being trafficked in yet another failing of a Bergefell versus Hodges.
[00:33:44]  You wouldn't, that wouldn't happen, would it?
[00:33:45]  It's crazy.
[00:33:46]  No, surely not.
[00:33:47]  Surely this is not a slippery slope or was not a slippery slope from the beginning in the 1980s.
[00:33:51]  Speaking of slippery slope, there is a venture capital firm out there trying to select for IQ in embryos.
[00:33:57]  Like, how dystopian and terrible is that?
[00:33:59]  Yeah.
[00:34:00]  Like, you survived, yes.
[00:34:01]  And 30 of your siblings did not make it because they weren't as smart as you.
[00:34:04]  Yeah.
[00:34:04]  What an awful, mechanical, sterile way to think about life.
[00:34:08]  Yeah.
[00:34:09]  Yeah.
[00:34:10]  This is not going away.
[00:34:11]  It's on the rise.
[00:34:12]  As I was doing research, I found surprisingly a lot of companies that do estimates on the financial, they're for investors.
[00:34:23]  They do forecasts on companies to determine their financial health and viability over a 10 year window.
[00:34:30]  And a lot of these reports are being run on surrogacy companies who are planning to go public or just to give people a sense of how.
[00:34:41]  Strong and how growing the industry is.
[00:34:45]  There's a lot of money in surrogacy, and there's going to be a lot more in it unless we stop it right here while it's still not a huge problem.
[00:34:53]  Right now in the US, surrogacy is, well, in 2020 it was a $4 billion market.
[00:35:01]  In 2024, it was a $14 billion market.
[00:35:05]  So, $10 billion increase in just a couple of years.
[00:35:08]  And analysts predict that by 2034, it'll be a one.
[00:35:16]  Nate, you can put this first graph on the screen.
[00:35:19]  It'll be a $129.9 billion market.
[00:35:24]  Wow.
[00:35:25]  So this is a 25% growth rate year over year, which is absolutely insane.
[00:35:33]  And it's a cycle too because pharmaceuticals, I mean, it is hard to make money.
[00:35:37]  You're entering crowded markets, there's drug exclusivity and patents.
[00:35:40]  I used to work in it.
[00:35:41]  And so pharmaceuticals are always on the look for what is a field, something that I could enter.
[00:35:46]  But it's a cycle in that as they enter and they advertise it, people get the idea that I should do this.
[00:35:52]  And then they do it more, creating more demand.
[00:35:53]  And then there's more demand.
[00:35:54]  So it's a more profitable market.
[00:35:56]  And to be honest, it's the same thing with transgender surgeries.
[00:35:59]  Yes.
[00:35:59]  They're over 100K per person and lifetime care.
[00:36:02]  You don't have doctors and you don't have pharmaceutical companies and hospitals looking at this procedure and being like, oh my goodness, this is just for the betterment of mankind.
[00:36:10]  They're looking at money.
[00:36:12]  The root, the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil, Paul says.
[00:36:16]  That at the base of it, A lot of times they really just want money and they're exploiting mothers who need the money.
[00:36:21]  Yep.
[00:36:22]  And then couples, at least in the case of straight couples, who are in a difficult spot.
[00:36:26]  Yeah.
[00:36:27]  These are not cheap either.
[00:36:28]  So, Nate, let's show graph number two here.
[00:36:31]  This shows the average surrogacy costs by country.
[00:36:35]  So, in the United States, it costs with IVF, which is most of them, about $145,000 that the intended family is paying out of pocket in order to fund this.
[00:36:48]  This goes to the The surrogate, the woman with the womb, that woman usually makes between $30,000 and $60,000.
[00:36:56]  It goes to the clinic.
[00:36:58]  And then a lot of it just goes to the cost of the IVF and all the actual procedures.
[00:37:03]  And it also goes to cover medical care for the woman.
[00:37:08]  So checkups, prenatal checkups, the delivery, things like that.
[00:37:13]  So they're really expensive.
[00:37:14]  What's interesting to me is that the US, like you said, Wes, is charging a ton more money than any of the other countries.
[00:37:24]  Probably some of that is our medical system costs more, but a lot of it too is just that we are an attractive quote unquote market to have your baby in, right?
[00:37:33]  For the reasons that we mentioned earlier with gaining immediate citizenship as soon as the baby is born, there.
[00:37:39]  It's.
[00:37:42]  One of the terrible things that Trump has done is he commissioned through executive order for his administration to look into how to take these costs and to bring them down, including with government assistance, which is terrible.
[00:37:53]  That is, there's no defense of that.
[00:37:56]  We obviously support Trump and a lot of things he does, but that might be the single worst thing he's done so far is to commission how could we do this for more families cheaper?
[00:38:05]  That's awful.
[00:38:05]  We should pray that that should not do not come to pass.
[00:38:08]  I hope that it will be something that he just ticks off as having fulfilled the campaign promise and then just kind of lets slide away or fall by the wayside.
[00:38:18]  That remains to be seen.
[00:38:20]  But it is very wrapped up in this whole surrogacy thing because they have to get an embryo and then it has to be implanted in a woman.
[00:38:28]  A lot of times they're even sometimes inducing her cycle or her pregnancy chemically.
[00:38:36]  Like it's really anti, understatement of the year, it's completely anti nature in this way.
[00:38:43]  So, we're going to dive into some clips from this Jordan Peterson interview, which is really good.
[00:38:47]  Any comments on the numbers or just what it is before we jump into the clips, gentlemen?
[00:38:52]  Well, it just shows the danger of.

=== Capitalism, Small Government, and Morality (07:23) ===

[00:38:57]  I'm a capitalist, okay?
[00:38:59]  But I will absolutely admit there is such a thing as crony capitalism.
[00:39:03]  Like, capitalism is not the gospel.
[00:39:07]  Right.
[00:39:08]  It is not some infallible, inherently moral system.
[00:39:11]  I think that capitalism beats socialism and a Especially socialism as we've seen it demonstrated by the Bolsheviks in Russia or in China or in communist socialist nations.
[00:39:25]  What we've seen is leftist examples of socialism, and they're all absolutely terrible.
[00:39:32]  And the old adage rings true that socialism is the four stench of communism and all those kinds of things when we're talking about the political, economic, cultural left.
[00:39:44]  We shouldn't pretend as though, um, that simply by having a free market that it's going to somehow right every single um economic wrong.
[00:39:57]  Um, that's part of the problem with capitalism.
[00:40:00]  This is why the state it's funny, you know, because like in 2020, you know, it's like Lex Rex, you know, that you know, Samuel Rutherford, and I agree with all those things.
[00:40:09]  Um, but it's just you know, there's a law above the king, and uh, and if you're not careful, like Christians, conservative Christians, can basically, in terms of their political philosophy.
[00:40:19]  They can be functionally libertarians, you know, and then you just add like some, you know, I'm a theocratic libertarian, you know, you give it some kind of, you know, qualifying statement before, you know, to make sure that it's explicitly Christian, you know, but this is why, like, Romans 13, when it says that the state exists, he bears the sword and not for nothing.
[00:40:39]  He exists as God's avenger on the wrongdoer.
[00:40:42]  So then the question is can you do wrong in markets?
[00:40:46]  Can you do wrong in commerce?
[00:40:47]  Can you do economic wrong?
[00:40:49]  Can you, like, Can corporations do wrong, or is it just individuals, you know, when it comes to physically going into somebody's house and stealing from them, right?
[00:40:58]  Um, you know, or when it comes to like that, my point is, um, I think Christians, conservative Christians, have been just like the Christian version of Ron Swanson, you know, right?
[00:41:13]  But that is not, I have a permit, I can do what I want, yeah, I can do what I want, leave me alone, small government.
[00:41:18]  And and I remember thinking about this, you know, it took me a couple years, 2020, that was kind of my solution, was we just, you know, this is this is.
[00:41:24]  Government tyranny, you know, and the solution is we just need a smaller state.
[00:41:29]  Well, I think that if we had a Christian government, number one, small state doesn't equal righteous state.
[00:41:36]  And for the longest time, I just thought, like, just by necessity, by default of shrinking the government, it would just automatically become better, more moral.
[00:41:50]  But you can have a big government that is wicked, and you can have a small government that's wicked.
[00:41:56]  Now, I do think that the Bible actually does address certain jurisdictions of.
[00:42:00]  Of the state, and there are certain things where they need to stay in their lane.
[00:42:05]  But the reality is, we've said this before, but I'll say it again briefly the reality is, if we had a perfectly Christian government tomorrow, it would be smaller in many capacities.
[00:42:17]  It would probably be larger, though, in some other capacities.
[00:42:21]  At least right here, right now.
[00:42:22]  At least right here, right now.
[00:42:25]  And one of those capacities is, yeah, a perfectly free market with no regulation whatsoever.
[00:42:33]  I think that that's a problem.
[00:42:34]  I mean, there are plenty of guys, guys that we love and that we respect, you know, Christian guys who are like, well, tariffs, that's immoral.
[00:42:43]  That's inherently, that's outside of the jurisdiction that the Bible gives to governments and you shouldn't do it.
[00:42:49]  You know, it's this invisible, you know, tax.
[00:42:51]  Somebody makes a product over here and they want to sell it over here and, you know, and the government just gets a piece and that's wrong.
[00:42:59]  But here's the reality is that if the government does nothing, if the government has not been given by God, Any jurisdiction in the realm of commerce, in the realm of markets, then this is what happens is that somebody comes up with something wicked and it sells.
[00:43:17]  And then all of a sudden it's a multi, multi billion dollar industry.
[00:43:20]  One of the most profitable tech companies by employee is OnlyFans.
[00:43:23]  Like per employee, the amount of revenue that it makes.
[00:43:25]  Right.
[00:43:25]  And you could say, to be fair and play, to give the counter, many of our friends would say, yeah, but the solution there is on the realm of morality that you just ban pornography.
[00:43:39]  Right.
[00:43:39]  You know, and problem solved.
[00:43:43]  But there's also something to be said for there are some things that are going to become, they're not as blatantly obvious, morally obvious as pornography.
[00:43:52]  Like, what do you do when Facebook, you know, has achieved a monopoly in terms of, you know, virtually, not completely, but virtually a monopoly?
[00:44:01]  Or let's say, okay, instead of one company, it's seven.
[00:44:03]  But what do you do when it's not 700, but it's seven companies, or even just three companies like Meta, you know, YouTube, and Twitter?
[00:44:12]  And it's the 2020 election, and they just collectively decide, like, we're just going to disappear down the rabbit hole, the Hunter Biden laptop case.
[00:44:23]  Then the state actually has to step into these free corporations and say, I'm sorry, no, you can't do that.
[00:44:30]  And it's like, well, it's my company.
[00:44:31]  Don't I have the right to do it?
[00:44:32]  No, because you literally have a monopoly on speech, and speech needs to be free.
[00:44:40]  And this is, you're actually influencing elections.
[00:44:44]  And so if you're free, then the election's not.
[00:44:46]  And they actually have a vested interest in doing something about it.
[00:44:49]  Well, the other thing about that is the emergence of the capitalism is American and small government is American.
[00:44:57]  We have to remember the time period when that became popular.
[00:44:59]  That was when America was fighting communism, when our ally was the USSR.
[00:45:04]  And so what we were doing is we were saying, what does it mean to be an American?
[00:45:08]  Well, it's not what Russia's doing.
[00:45:10]  It's not the government owning everything.
[00:45:12]  It's not centrally planned.
[00:45:14]  It's not centrally planned, right?
[00:45:16]  It's not this huge massive government that controls every part of everyone's life.
[00:45:21]  No, we're Americans and we're Christians, and so we're going to be for small government, we're going to be for capitalism.
[00:45:25]  And I think that that wasn't necessarily an inappropriate sentiment when the external enemy was communism and the USSR and the Cold War.
[00:45:34]  But we don't live in that time anymore.
[00:45:36]  And so we need to think carefully about what the principles are and how they relate to us being America first and all of the things that Trump is saying.
[00:45:45]  The Bible gives us, none of us have any qualms or any debate.
[00:45:49]  We love this about the Christian faith and about the scripture.
[00:45:53]  The Bible gives us some universal transcendent principles that are non negotiable.
[00:45:58]  You don't get to go against them.
[00:46:01]  But we do need to bifurcate, distinguish, and be honest that there is a distinction between the principles themselves that are immutable and stem from the unchanging law of God that's transcendent above all people and all places and all governments and all time versus the unique and specific applications of those.

=== Western Values and Biological Truths (14:18) ===

[00:46:20]  And there is variance.
[00:46:22]  There just is.
[00:46:23]  There is variance of how these principles should be practically applied.
[00:46:28]  By this government in this country at this time, depending on this context and what's going on.
[00:46:35]  Yep.
[00:46:36]  So good.
[00:46:36]  Okay, with that established, we want to get into this interview.
[00:46:40]  And one of the things that we wanted to say this is an interview between Jordan Peterson and Katie Faust.
[00:46:45]  And Katie is a self described advocate for children's rights, the rights of the unborn.
[00:46:50]  The Christian to evangelize.
[00:46:51]  Yeah, evangelicals.
[00:46:52]  Unashamedly so.
[00:46:52]  Yep.
[00:46:53]  And in spite of all the time that we spend making our presence known to right wing watch and criticizing the involvement of women in the public sphere, we also have to be honest about the time that we live in.
[00:47:06]  Right, we don't live in a patriarchal society again yet, and we just wanted to say like she really does a good job.
[00:47:12]  Yeah um, she is to be commended for her work on pushing back on Jordan Peterson in this episode, because I I just have clips, but if you guys watch the whole episode, there are many times where he just he's stuck.
[00:47:25]  She backs him into a corner and he literally can't get out of it And she just sits there and watches him kind of in a similar way.
[00:47:33]  It's not antagonistic.
[00:47:35]  He's not hostile to her, but with that Kathy Newman interview with Jordan Peterson from way back when, when he would say something and get her backed in, there are several times in this interview where he is just sitting there like, oh, well, let's see.
[00:47:49]  And to their credit, they didn't cut away his stammers and things like that.
[00:47:53]  They left the whole interview.
[00:47:54]  But she really does a good job pushing back on this issue in a really important and, I thought, really clarifying way.
[00:48:00]  So we've had some issues with.
[00:48:05]  Some of the videos that we've done.
[00:48:06]  So I broke them into smaller chunks this time.
[00:48:10]  So it's going to be a little bit more kind of broken up and more interjective.
[00:48:14]  I always thought the rule was just you had to, if you're going to show a video or a clip, you just had to commentate.
[00:48:19]  Yes.
[00:48:20]  That is technically the rule.
[00:48:21]  AI is to blame.
[00:48:24]  AI is to blame.
[00:48:24]  That's what Nathan says.
[00:48:25]  If Nathan says it, then it's true.
[00:48:27]  You can take it to the bank.
[00:48:28]  Yeah, you can take it to the bank.
[00:48:29]  But I always thought that it was less of like the size of the video, but it was more so like the percentage.
[00:48:35]  Like I would understand if you're showing like a 27 minute clip.
[00:48:38]  You know, like half of a movie, and then you give 30 seconds of commentary on the end of it.
[00:48:44]  But our live streams, you're talking on average a two hour video, and we show a two minute clip.
[00:48:50]  And I just felt like that would be okay, but it's not.
[00:48:52]  So you chopped it up.
[00:48:53]  Yeah.
[00:48:53]  So it'll be a little bit broken.
[00:48:54]  We'll say a couple things, but really, some of these segments are longer commentaries by Katie, and they're kind of artificially broken up.
[00:49:03]  We are not doing, my point is, we're not doing this to try and be disingenuous to her argument or to the conversation.
[00:49:09]  We're doing this so that our video can stay up.
[00:49:11]  Yes.
[00:49:11]  Correct.
[00:49:11]  Okay.
[00:49:12]  Nate, let's roll that first clip there.
[00:49:16]  But functionally, what that means so a lot of gay marriage was disconnecting those two.
[00:49:21]  This isn't about kids.
[00:49:22]  Oh, there's a lot of heterosexuals that can't have kids.
[00:49:24]  So, you know, so gays can be married too.
[00:49:27]  So, but when they did connect it to kids, what they said, what I heard them saying is kids don't care if they have two moms or two dads.
[00:49:35]  But functionally, what that means is kids don't care if they have lost their mom or lost their dad.
[00:49:42]  That's what you're talking about.
[00:49:43]  When you see the picture of a child with two moms, you're looking at a picture of a child who has lost their dad.
[00:49:48]  When you're looking at a child with two dads, you are looking at a little girl or a little boy who has lost their mother.
[00:49:54]  Now, Sometimes that happens through tragedy.
[00:49:58]  We used to experience that kind of, especially father loss on a mass scale, for example, after wars.
[00:50:04]  Before modern medicine, we used to experience mother loss at the time of birth.
[00:50:09]  But thank God, due to modern warfare and modern technology, we are not seeing father and mother loss to tragedy on a mass scale like that.
[00:50:16]  What we are now seeing is mother and father loss intentionally, and now due to reproductive technologies, commercially.
[00:50:23]  But we're not looking at it as tragic anymore.
[00:50:26]  Now we're looking at it as tragic.
[00:50:28]  A step of progress.
[00:50:31]  Yeah.
[00:50:33]  So she's laying some groundwork for what's going to come where previously in history, the loss of a mother or a father was always because of tragedy.
[00:50:44]  Right.
[00:50:44]  And where she's going is she's going to make the case that now the loss of a mother or a father is because of convenience or fulfillment or commerce.
[00:50:56]  And so she's saying, but it does stand, it's a good point as she lays her case that.
[00:51:01]  This is always a child growing up without a mother or a father has always been conceived or perceived as a terrible situation and one that a community needs to band around, one that would be brought on by war, by the death of the mother and childbirth, some horrible situation that leaves the children permanently altered from grief and from the lack of that bonding with either the mother or the father.
[00:51:25]  Right.
[00:51:26]  Yep.
[00:51:26]  Yep.
[00:51:27]  Okay, Nate, let's press on.
[00:51:29]  Clip number two.
[00:51:31]  No, I remember the conversation you guys had where he said, I kind of feel like I'm at the end of what the maturation that I can achieve without having children, in essence, is how that conversation went.
[00:51:43]  And that is true.
[00:51:45]  Children do mature you in ways that other relationships and other demands do not.
[00:51:50]  But children are not a function of your maturation, you should be a function of theirs.
[00:51:55]  So I understand.
[00:51:56]  So, first of all, let me say Dave Rubin, incredibly talented, absolute champion of Western values, probably one of the most talented interviewers that I know of right now.
[00:52:06]  And what he did to those children is 100% unjust.
[00:52:10]  Unfortunately, he forced the smallest, the weakest, the most vulnerable to sacrifice for two grown men.
[00:52:17]  And even though they can try to make up for it with freezers full of breast milk, nighttime nannies, and the mothers in their life, they have denied their children not just one mother, not just two mothers, but I would argue all three mothers, all three roles that a mother provides.
[00:52:35]  So she's talking there about Dave Rubin.
[00:52:37]  And if you don't know the backstory, Jordan Peterson toured with Dave Rubin.
[00:52:41]  And they had a public podcast episode where they talked through the, I guess, nuances and moral intricacies of two men adopting a child through surrogacy and what that's going to do.
[00:52:55]  And is it possible to raise functional, flourishing children?
[00:52:58]  And hosted on what platform?
[00:53:00]  It was on Daily Wire.
[00:53:02]  Daily Wire.
[00:53:03]  Yeah.
[00:53:04]  So she is going after Jordan Peterson.
[00:53:07]  And really, I wish there would be some men who would do this who are just saying, you're wrong.
[00:53:12]  And Dave Rubin.
[00:53:13]  Was unjust.
[00:53:14]  Like, this is an unjust and immoral thing that he and his so called husband have done to these two boys in adopting them into surrogacy.
[00:53:22]  And remember, a lot of your conservative champions, your Chris Rufos, your, I think some guys in the Blaze like Glenn Beck and others, they were celebrating Dave when he came out.
[00:53:31]  They came out and announced it.
[00:53:33]  They're like, we're so happy for you.
[00:53:35]  It'll be such a good time.
[00:53:36]  Have fun not sleeping.
[00:53:37]  What are we doing here?
[00:53:39]  Yeah.
[00:53:39]  Right.
[00:53:39]  And that's not for the record.
[00:53:41]  Western values that Dave Rubin champions.
[00:53:43]  If those are Western values, I don't want any part of them.
[00:53:45]  Right.
[00:53:45]  Wes, you made a comment about the good point about maturation.
[00:53:47]  Did you want to expand on that at all?
[00:53:49]  Give me a little bit of a reminder.
[00:53:50]  Well, it's okay.
[00:53:51]  She says that.
[00:53:54]  While having children does mature a father and a mother, the purpose in the role is not because Dave Rubin had said, I've reached the peak maturation as a human that I can achieve just in a same sex relationship.
[00:54:11]  And so she's saying that's actually not the function of childbirth.
[00:54:15]  It's not the purpose of children.
[00:54:16]  Yes, it does happen.
[00:54:17]  It does happen.
[00:54:18]  God uses, like, the fact that I have five children, God has used that immensely to sanctify me.
[00:54:25]  But that's not what the kids can do for me.
[00:54:29]  God is gracious.
[00:54:30]  And so when God gives a blessing, He usually blesses everybody involved.
[00:54:33]  That just speaks to the generosity and the heart of God and how rich His blessings really are.
[00:54:37]  God gives a blessing and it blesses in every direction.
[00:54:40]  And so praise be to God.
[00:54:43]  But the father child relationship is not predominantly what can the child do for me?
[00:54:47]  How can it shape me?
[00:54:48]  How can it improve me?
[00:54:50]  It's what can I do sacrificially in giving my life for this child?
[00:54:54]  That's right.
[00:54:54]  Go ahead.
[00:54:55]  Yeah.
[00:54:56]  That's really, that's pretty much exactly it.
[00:54:58]  Yeah.
[00:54:59]  And it's just, Also, a way of thinking too.
[00:55:01]  There's a way of thinking of the world as fixed and kind of unchanging, that there's laws of nature that you just can't tamper with.
[00:55:06]  Carl Truman talks about this in his book on the modern spirit.
[00:55:09]  And then there's a way of thinking like, well, everything in the world is changeable.
[00:55:12]  Like, my dad was raised on formula instead of breastfed because there was a period in the 70s and the 80s where they were like, well, why would we need to do it like that?
[00:55:19]  That sounds kind of painful.
[00:55:21]  That sounds inconvenient.
[00:55:22]  Why not just take formula that has vegetable oil in it and feed that to a baby instead?
[00:55:27]  And I understand there's situations where it's impossible, but that's fundamentally a view of the world where it's like, Yeah, there's we can mess with any of these systems and they'll work just as fine.
[00:55:35]  We can we can tamper with this, we can make kids in a lab, really, the sky's the limit.
[00:55:40]  Versus the way I think for thousands of years, humans look to the world, this is how it is, these are how the rules set up, they're ordained by God, right?
[00:55:48]  God put them in place, but we actually don't have the freedom to just play around with them and see what happens and expect it all go well, right?
[00:55:55]  You, I've shared before, everybody, you know, at this point probably knows, you know, I've shared it publicly, but um, I was adopted, and adoption is.
[00:56:02]  You know, it's a picture of the gospel.
[00:56:04]  God adopts us as his children, you know, by the Spirit, you know, the Spirit which dwells within us.
[00:56:08]  You know, if you're a Christian, your body's a temple of the Holy Spirit.
[00:56:11]  The Spirit dwells within you, and he affirms our adoption by crying out within us, Abba, Father.
[00:56:16]  And so all these things are beautiful, you know, doctrines of the scripture, the doctrine of adoption that's a picture of the gospel.
[00:56:24]  But it's important to remember that when it comes to physical, you know, earthly adoption, it can be beautiful, it's redemptive, but the whole.
[00:56:36]  The whole reason it exists is because of sin.
[00:56:38]  That's right.
[00:56:40]  Adoption only exists because there are orphans, and orphans only exist because of sin.
[00:56:45]  Because someone either rejected you or somebody died, death entered the world by sin.
[00:56:51]  So, adoption only exists in the human sense because of sin.
[00:56:55]  Even our spiritual adoption, even that exists because we were once separated from God because of sin.
[00:57:02]  And that's why He has to draw us and reconcile us to Himself by grace at the cost of.
[00:57:09]  You know, the life of his own son who died on the cross for our sins.
[00:57:13]  And so, all that being said, applied to a physical, temporal plane, when we're talking biologically and physically and the parent child relationship, yes, adoption is a picture of the gospel.
[00:57:25]  And yes, it is redemptive.
[00:57:27]  When it's done well, it is absolutely redemptive.
[00:57:29]  It's better than the child just being an orphan.
[00:57:31]  But we should still admit, even with adoption, it's not best.
[00:57:36]  It's the best that we can do given the circumstances that have been shattered by sin.
[00:57:41]  So, it's good.
[00:57:42]  I'm not saying that it's not good, it is good.
[00:57:45]  And God blesses it.
[00:57:46]  And I think it honors the Lord when it's done with wisdom and also with sacrifice.
[00:57:50]  It's not just wisdom, it's wisdom, but it's also sacrifice and generosity and love and all these things.
[00:57:56]  And when it's done well with prudence and with love, especially by Christians, then it is good.
[00:58:02]  But the best would be that it didn't have to happen at all.
[00:58:06]  And to pretend that, see, this gets into the larger conversations and things that we've been talking about in terms of nature and in terms of biology.
[00:58:15]  No, like the child who is adopted is perpetually at some level of disadvantage, having never known its biological father and mother.
[00:58:28]  It is.
[00:58:29]  Like you were saying, like your dad, you know, he was breastfeed fed because his generation, there was a psyop on all the moms.
[00:58:35]  Formula fed.
[00:58:35]  Or formula fed because there was a psyop that, you know, breastfeeding was, you know, inconvenient and it really didn't matter, you know.
[00:58:41]  And I was bottle fed, obviously, because I was adopted.
[00:58:44]  And so, you know, my adoptive mother was not able to breastfeed.
[00:58:49]  But in all those things, it's like, no, you know, like praise God for formula because some people can't breastfeed.
[00:58:55]  Right, right.
[00:58:56]  You know, my wife has had struggles with that.
[00:58:58]  And if it wasn't for alternative solutions, then we'd be in rough shape.
[00:59:03]  A couple of my children probably wouldn't even be alive.
[00:59:05]  And so I'm grateful for modern innovations and developments and technology.
[00:59:10]  These things are wonderful when they have to be done, when they're utterly necessary, when they become vital.
[00:59:18]  Then it's wonderful that we have something instead of nothing.
[00:59:22]  But when you, when you, Begin to pretend as though the ideal doesn't even exist.
[00:59:26]  That there's no ideal at all.
[00:59:28]  That, you know, if you want to just do it out of convenience, you just don't feel like breastfeeding, then okay, go ahead and use formula.
[00:59:37]  Or, you know, if you just want to do it, you know, like you actually could have children, but you've chosen to be in a homosexual, same sex, you know, mirage relationship.
[00:59:48]  And so now you're going to use surrogacy to, like, no, just because you can doesn't mean you should.
[00:59:54]  Do you have the clips, Michael?
[00:59:55]  I don't want to step on them if we get to them later, but the chemical bond between mothers and children.
[00:59:59]  Yeah, let's do that.
[01:00:00]  I think there is a clip.
[01:00:01]  I didn't do the long ones.
[01:00:03]  She does mention it.
[01:00:04]  I know there's a short one.
[01:00:04]  So we already get there.
[01:00:05]  Yeah.
[01:00:05]  Okay.
[01:00:05]  Sounds like a little headache.
[01:00:08]  So Peterson points out, Joel, to your point, that, well, you know, Dave Rubin's partner is very motherly and affectionate and effeminate towards the children, or I forget which word he uses.
[01:00:21]  And so she actually goes in, to your point, Joel, and she talks about how actually you can't replace.
[01:00:26]  Mother with just an effeminate man.
[01:00:27]  So, Nate, we're going to play three clips in a row, and I'm just going to basically say, and then there's the next clip.
[01:00:32]  She's making one larger point here.
[01:00:34]  So, let's roll into this little next section on the three roles of a mother.

=== Trauma and the Birth Mother Bond (04:21) ===

[01:00:38]  Number one is the genetic mother who provides 50% of the child's biological identity.
[01:00:45]  And that is a critical piece of identity consolidation and formation.
[01:00:50]  It is very hard for kids to answer the question, Who am I? if they cannot answer the question, Whose am I?
[01:00:58]  And unfortunately, Dave and David have severed their children from 50% of the answer to that question.
[01:01:05]  So there's number one mother that they've cut them off of.
[01:01:08]  Okay, so that's her first point.
[01:01:11]  We've got a little break here for copyright.
[01:01:12]  Second point.
[01:01:13]  Number two, the birth mother.
[01:01:16]  This is not only the most critical, but the only relationship that children have for the first nine and a half months of their life.
[01:01:24]  And the day that the child is born is the day when they're supposed to see the mother they already love for the first time, not the last.
[01:01:32]  Why is it that we put children, newborns, on the chest of their mothers?
[01:01:36]  It is not so they can form a bond, it is because children have an existing bond with that woman.
[01:01:42]  It is her body, her smell, her voice.
[01:01:45]  That sues the baby.
[01:01:47]  She is the only thing that that child knows.
[01:01:50]  We have measured, and it is her presence that decreases baby's cortisol levels, especially in the first couple days and weeks.
[01:02:00]  Her presence specifically, random people, even the child's father, do not decrease cortisol levels and increase oxytocin levels in children the way that the child's own birth mother does.
[01:02:12]  So that's mother number two.
[01:02:13]  Okay, we'll hit that in a second, Wes, because that's the clip you were talking about.
[01:02:18]  Let's roll her third point and then we'll come back and talk about that.
[01:02:20]  And then, mother number three is the social mother, the woman that is providing the daily maternal love that satisfies children's souls and maximizes their development.
[01:02:31]  So, what surrogacy does is it splices what should be one person, mother, into three purchasable and optional women the genetic mother, who provides the egg, the birth mother that gestates the child, and the social mother that provides all of that female, distinct, nurturing, That will, in essence, lead the child to that place of balance, thriving, and independence later on in life.
[01:02:56]  And unfortunately, Dave and his husband David have starved their children of all three of those, not because of tragedy, intentionally and commercially.
[01:03:10]  When I jump in on the chemical bond there, Wes.
[01:03:13]  I mean, I can just say, and I probably speak for all three of us, this topic when I see two men with a baby fills me like nothing else with volcanic rage.
[01:03:22]  Amen.
[01:03:24]  Because obviously, I was there.
[01:03:25]  We had our last child at home, and the baby comes out, and it's just, it's blind.
[01:03:29]  It's traumatized, and it goes for mom.
[01:03:32]  And it's just like, that's the only thing it knows, and it clings so tightly, and it's held there in warmth.
[01:03:37]  For gay men to purchase that so they can LARP and pretend, we're parents too.
[01:03:43]  You need to hate that with a perfect hatred to hate not just the idea.
[01:03:48]  I hate the idea of circusy.
[01:03:49]  The wicked people that do this, and the systems, and so called even conservatives that allow it to continue.
[01:03:56]  So, all that and the chemicals, she touched on it well.
[01:03:58]  They touch on it later in the episode, too.
[01:04:00]  But the incredible bond between mother and child is that the mother's body, as the baby breastfeeds, actually takes in feedback from the baby what the baby's lacking in nutrition, antibodies that it's lacking if it's fighting off a cold.
[01:04:12]  There's even, she mentions in the episode, but if the baby's lacking in calcium, the mother's body will take it from her own bones and deliver it through the breast milk.
[01:04:22]  Now, evolution didn't do that, God did that in a beautiful relationship.
[01:04:25]  And so, mother to baby, baby, then for the mother, For one, it decreases her risk of postpartum.
[01:04:31]  So, every single surrogate woman that has been deprived of that child, you also subjected her to higher rates of suicide, worse rates of postpartum, more difficult recovery.
[01:04:41]  There's also even pain.
[01:04:42]  The pain of recovery is lessened through breastfeeding and bonding and oxytocin and everything like that.
[01:04:48]  You are absolutely destroying with a wrecking ball a beautiful system for health, for vitality, for even later on in life.
[01:04:56]  I mean, we've talked about things that happen before you give birth.

=== Children's Rights to Their Parents (06:36) ===

[01:04:59]  How formative would those first weeks and months be?
[01:05:02]  And so, not just at a philosophical level, not just at an idea level, like, well, theoretically, it should be best.
[01:05:09]  No, practically, tangibly, biologically, that is the optimal way for it to be.
[01:05:15]  The woman bearing the child of her husband and obviously its father.
[01:05:20]  Yeah.
[01:05:21]  It's really well said.
[01:05:22]  And I don't think I can add anything to that.
[01:05:25]  So let's hit our second commercial break, and we'll come back and hit a few more clips.
[01:05:29]  Okay.
[01:05:30]  All right.
[01:05:31]  The clock is running out.
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[01:07:45]  All right, so we're going to jump into the next round of clips here and She's going to talk about mother loss.
[01:07:51]  Elsewhere in the episode, she does talk about the importance of fathers, but she's still trying to pin Jordan Peterson down on specifically gay men, quote unquote, adopting a child.
[01:08:01]  And so she's going to talk about the results of depriving a child of his or her mother.
[01:08:07]  And so don't take what she says to just be exclusively feminist and the mother's the only important.
[01:08:14]  She speaks very highly of the importance of fathers in a child's life elsewhere in the episode.
[01:08:19]  But here, again, she's going after Jordan Peterson.
[01:08:22]  On this topic of Dave Rubin and Dave Rubin's supposed husband.
[01:08:26]  And she's going to get into the idea of what leads to societal flourishing.
[01:08:31]  And people who push for surrogacy are going to say there's no, and in fact, studies, quote unquote, have been done, she's going to get into them, that purport to say that there's no difference in outcome for children who are raised through surrogacy or raised in gay households.
[01:08:49]  And her whole point here is that that is death to a society.
[01:08:53]  This path is death to a society.
[01:08:56]  It cannot be a path to stability, long lasting permanence, or flourishing.
[01:09:02]  So, Nate, let's go ahead and start rolling some of these clips and we'll say one or two things in between them.
[01:09:07]  And then maybe we'll save our longer comments for after we finish all of these.
[01:09:11]  Policy decisions.
[01:09:12]  And that I will tell you, I can use the same metric and rubric.
[01:09:16]  And I think this is great for personal decisions and policy decisions.
[01:09:19]  And that one rubric is adults should sacrifice so kids don't have to.
[01:09:23]  We should not force children to do hard things on behalf of adults.
[01:09:27]  And ultimately, any form of surrogacy.
[01:09:30]  It's forcing children to sacrifice something so adults can have what they want.
[01:09:35]  Nobody has a right to a child.
[01:09:38]  Children have a right to their mother and father.
[01:09:44]  Well said.
[01:09:45]  Yeah.
[01:09:45]  Yeah.
[01:09:45]  And she goes through, like I said in the episode, she unpacks actually the principles of natural law and explains how a child can have the right to parents, but adults do not have a right to children necessarily.
[01:10:00]  So, okay, she's going to build from there.
[01:10:01]  Let's go on to the next episode.
[01:10:03]  The next clip here, Nate.
[01:10:06]  The mother loss is so antithetical to our species, right?
[01:10:11]  That mother and child are bonded so tightly, both in the ways that you're talking about in terms of responsiveness of breast milk formulation.
[01:10:19]  I mean, I always joke that mother's breast milk will change whether or not she's nursing a boy or a girl.
[01:10:25]  So mom's boobs know male and female when a lot of Yale University professors do not.
[01:10:30]  Okay.
[01:10:31]  I mean, like mother infant bond and reciprocity between the two of them is.
[01:10:36]  Is primal.
[01:10:37]  I mean, that's really the only word that you can have for it.
[01:10:39]  And so we don't have a lot of studies of mother loss in children because it goes against the grain of what it means to be human.
[01:10:48]  And now we think we are just going to casually say, you know what?
[01:10:52]  We can intentionally and commercially sever that bond between mother and child, um, because we have the means to do it.
[01:10:59]  And who am I to say that a woman who's 35 that has the means, that desperately wants to be a mother who is going to take home her own genetic child, who am I to say that she shouldn't do that?
[01:11:09]  Um, well, I'm here to say, as best as I can, that I am representing the interest of that child.
[01:11:15]  And the interest of that child is to not be intentionally separated from the only person they know the day that they are born.
[01:11:24]  I love her fight for children.
[01:11:27]  And I mean, obviously, we talk about on this show a lot about women and being keepers at home and the gentle and quiet spirit that Peter says is beautiful in women.

=== Convictions Versus Ideology in Surrogacy (04:52) ===

[01:11:36]  But praise God for in this moment, kind of like a Deborah, because at least the men that are speaking about it, they don't have the platforms, they're not writing the books.
[01:11:42]  That she's up there saying, No, I'm going to fight for these kids.
[01:11:46]  And in time, obviously, we would hope this isn't a fight we have to fight at all.
[01:11:49]  And Katie gets to enjoy her grandchildren.
[01:11:51]  And I'm sure she will.
[01:11:53]  Amen.
[01:11:54]  Praise God for her now.
[01:11:55]  Amen.
[01:11:55]  I'm glad you mentioned that.
[01:11:56]  People need to understand the difference between having convictions and being an ideologue.
[01:12:06]  And that's difficult, I think, for a lot of people because they have no category but the category of hypocrisy.
[01:12:12]  They just don't know what to do with it.
[01:12:14]  You know, so like, well, wait a second, aren't you patriarchal and you believe in, you know, you're not a fan of universal suffrage and you think there should be household votes and all the kind of, uh huh.
[01:12:23]  I believe that.
[01:12:23]  My wife believes that.
[01:12:24]  And the two of us went together and both voted for Trump.
[01:12:27]  That's right.
[01:12:27]  It's like, how'd you do that?
[01:12:29]  That's hypocritical.
[01:12:30]  No, you're understanding place and time and you're working within the context that the Lord and His providence has currently placed you in.
[01:12:38]  And there are some things that are objectively sin, compromised to the level of sin.
[01:12:43]  But there are other things that are not compromised.
[01:12:45]  It's not hypocrisy, but it's shrewd.
[01:12:47]  And it's working with a set of circumstances that you actually have.
[01:12:51]  It's working within the context of viability.
[01:12:53]  And so, so if you were maybe invited to meet with the most powerful man in the world, for instance, and uh, strictly, I'd be there, people that be there you disagree with, you wouldn't go because they're false teachers, yeah.
[01:13:03]  Like, if Trump invited you to come and tell him, the most powerful man in the world, um, how he could best legislate and advocate for the prospering of Christians, and you say, well, you know, I'm not gonna go because uh, you invited some other people there that I, you know, I think have bad theology and they shouldn't be there, um, that's This is why I'll say this.
[01:13:30]  This is why the reform can't have nice things.
[01:13:32]  You know, it's like the reform tradition that's my conviction.
[01:13:37]  The reform tradition, I am reformed, but the reformed camp, there's a difference between the reformed tradition and the modern, current reformed people.
[01:13:48]  And yeah, like, I mean, it's a bummer, but like things like that happen.
[01:13:55]  And you know what?
[01:13:56]  Like guys with good theology who are in our broader camp.
[01:14:02]  Maybe it's a high likelihood.
[01:14:04]  I don't even, I'm hesitant to even say it, but like high likelihood that they may not even get that opportunity again.
[01:14:10]  Because why would Trump give that opportunity if the one time it's given, you know, you have posts going viral that are, you know, that are mocking people that Trump has appointed and that Trump likes?
[01:14:23]  Should Trump have appointed these people?
[01:14:25]  No, we disagree with his, you know, his faith advisory, you know, and like, but yeah, there's a way of saying, no, I have my convictions.
[01:14:33]  And yet, I'm also going to take this opportunity.
[01:14:36]  I'm going to take the ingredients that God has providentially given to me, and I'm going to build as much as I can.
[01:14:44]  I'm going to work with what we got.
[01:14:46]  I'm going to get to work, and I'm not going to allow the perfect to be the enemy of the good.
[01:14:52]  Joel, I think of all of your gifts and abilities, your ability to come up with hypotheticals that would never, ever happen on the spot, absolutely top notch.
[01:15:00]  Which, for the listener, that did happen.
[01:15:02]  That's great.
[01:15:03]  Great guy.
[01:15:03]  Visited the White House.
[01:15:04]  A lot of people gave him grief for it.
[01:15:05]  A great, yeah, one of our guys, a reformed guy who loves the Lord and has a good political sense, got invited to the White House.
[01:15:14]  And it's not a bunch of screaming, screeching leftists.
[01:15:18]  It's the reformed camp, immediately comes out and is retweeting, and posts are going, you know, semi viral, giving him, you know, rebuking him, publicly rebuking him, some of the posts borderline mocking him, saying, well, how could you be there?
[01:15:36]  Because Paula White.
[01:15:38]  You know, and it's like none of us agree with Paula White.
[01:15:40]  Of course we don't.
[01:15:41]  And neither does the individual who is invited.
[01:15:44]  But if you want to ensure that no reformed man will ever be granted the ability to be within a 500 foot radius of Donald Trump again, that's how you do it.
[01:15:57]  That's a good way to do it.
[01:15:58]  It's funny how anti reformed it is.
[01:16:00]  Like we're reformed, we're reformed.
[01:16:01]  Have you read John Calvin's address to the Catholic King of France?
[01:16:06]  Right.
[01:16:07]  How magnanimously respectful.
[01:16:09]  He is, may God establish your throne in righteousness and equity to a Roman Catholic king.
[01:16:14]  And he's a Protestant being persecuted and respectfully and submissively with adulation, O king, please lend your ear to our cause.
[01:16:23]  That's what the reformers were like, not whatever this is today.

=== Masculine, Feminine Roles and Telos (13:42) ===

[01:16:28]  Speaking of older beliefs, Jordan Sawyer.
[01:16:31]  So you were glad that Katie Faust.
[01:16:33]  We are.
[01:16:33]  She did a great job.
[01:16:35]  And one day, I hope that that won't have to happen, that you'll have enough men in that space.
[01:16:42]  And here's the irony.
[01:16:44]  That you wouldn't have to have a Kitty Faust, but also that you get to the point where you also wouldn't have to have a Dave Rubin.
[01:16:49]  Right.
[01:16:50]  And to be frank, I don't think we have to have a Dave Rubin.
[01:16:53]  Right.
[01:16:53]  But that's the argument that's always, you know, it's like, well, there's so few, you know, so we'll take, you know, this, that, and the other.
[01:17:00]  And so, and we're just, that's the principle that we're espousing is saying, yeah, there's an ideal.
[01:17:06]  Don't lose sight of it.
[01:17:07]  Here's the conviction.
[01:17:08]  This is what we're working for.
[01:17:09]  And I think you should, you don't have to say it every single episode, but from time to time, you should remind people, this is the ideal that we're working towards, and here's the biblical conviction and why.
[01:17:21]  And then at the same time, say, and these are the pieces that we have today, and let's work.
[01:17:28]  Yep.
[01:17:29]  Wes, you mentioned the magisterial reformers, and Jordan Peterson is actually going to stumble upon or at least reiterate a belief that's quite old and actually kind of shocking to our modern sensibilities.
[01:17:41]  So, Nate, let's roll the next clip as they talk about what actually is the essence of womanhood.
[01:17:47]  Because even brief maternal deprivation, we know based on those rat studies, can permanently alter the structure of a child's brain.
[01:17:55]  So, like when we start tinkering with the maternal child bond, Because some adults are sad, or maybe they have an identity that leads them to a place where they do not have an egg or a womb between them.
[01:18:09]  So then we're going to just bypass and ignore everything that we know about the nature of the human child and maternal deprivation and the harms that go along with maternal loss.
[01:18:18]  Maybe also everything that we know about the mother.
[01:18:21]  Like you described yourself earlier as an evangelical Christian, and I've spent a lot of time looking at the imagery of Mary, right?
[01:18:30]  If you think Mary is the archetypal female, you can make that case.
[01:18:35]  That's a reasonable case to make.
[01:18:37]  But the thing about Mary is that Mary isn't an individual.
[01:18:40]  Mary is mother and infant.
[01:18:43]  And I think that the human female nervous system is actually adapted to the mother infant dyad and not to the best interests of the mother because women are differentially sensitive to negative emotion, which makes them suffer more.
[01:19:01]  And so you have to ask why.
[01:19:04]  And one answer to that, and it's not the only answer, but one answer, and I'm sure at least.
[01:19:08]  It's partly true that women sacrifice their own emotional stability and happiness to be there as alarm systems for their infants.
[01:19:18]  And that's how tightly wired they are together.
[01:19:20]  And so it could easily be that the proper image of woman, in for a penny and in for a pound, let's say, the proper image of woman isn't individual woman the way it is individual man.
[01:19:32]  It's woman plus infant.
[01:19:34]  And that now you agree with that, do you?
[01:19:38]  Yeah.
[01:19:38]  Okay.
[01:19:39]  I agree.
[01:19:39]  I mean, It's actually a pretty old idea.
[01:19:43]  Like even the paintings of the Madonna, which is not Madonna the pop star, it's the Virgin Mary with her son Christ, so they refer to that as the Madonna.
[01:19:54]  That was one of the points that was being made in a lot of those paintings is that woman is, and Mary was, Mary and child.
[01:20:02]  And I think it's actually somewhat insightful that Peterson says the essence of woman is not the same as essence of man, where man is on his own.
[01:20:11]  It is woman and child, right?
[01:20:13]  That is her nature to deliver and give birth.
[01:20:17]  And when you separate child from mother, you're damaging the image and the essence of what a child is and what a mother is.
[01:20:27]  That's the same thing with a paeda, the sculpture by Michelangelo.
[01:20:30]  It's Mary holding, and this would be the crucified Christ, beholding him like a child, eternally bound to him because she gave birth to him and mourning.
[01:20:37]  And I mean, these are the icons and the statues and the images, and we have a problem with images.
[01:20:41]  But I mean, through the Middle Ages that they conceived of.
[01:20:44]  And there's a theme, because remember, Paul in Romans says, present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable.
[01:20:50]  It's interesting because both woman and man will sacrifice their bodies.
[01:20:53]  The woman sacrifices it in, for one, it's for the service of her husband, be a helpmeet for him, and in the child.
[01:20:59]  So she gives away her strength, her health, and her energy.
[01:21:03]  It really is given to the child.
[01:21:05]  She gets stretch marks and gains and loses weight and hormones.
[01:21:08]  That child's vitality is coming at a direct cost.
[01:21:12]  The mother's vitality.
[01:21:13]  She's losing sleep.
[01:21:15]  Her whole body is changing.
[01:21:17]  It's incredibly important.
[01:21:18]  And then men lay down their lives for one, the ultimate, that would be security.
[01:21:23]  Same thing.
[01:21:23]  We have the paintings of that.
[01:21:24]  What's the father holding back the serpent with his two sons there?
[01:21:27]  So the man is the image of strength, but he sacrifices that too for physical protection and in providing.
[01:21:34]  Like you look at any blue collar worker and you can say, like, well, she has to, she gives up the right to her body in marriage and the right to her body in childbirth.
[01:21:41]  It's like, no, no, no.
[01:21:41]  Have you seen what he's doing every day too?
[01:21:43]  So both of them have to give up their bodies because the call of God and the gospel is to take your bodies and present them as living sacrifices to be consumed, not to be preserved as statues in glass and marble.
[01:21:55]  Look how magnificent it is.
[01:21:56]  This is.
[01:21:57]  You know, a body that's never seen a child, or this is a man's body that's never seen a day of hard work.
[01:22:01]  No, both of them sacrificed, given up, and exhausted, laid in the ground, and then raised imperishable.
[01:22:07]  Yeah.
[01:22:07]  I mean, it's so like what Paul said in 1 Timothy 2 that women will be saved through childbearing.
[01:22:14]  And the essential function of a woman, and obviously you've said before, Joel, there's women who are infertile, or, you know, all of those things are true, but the essential function, telos, of a woman is to be attached to a child, to give.
[01:22:30]  Life, to give birth, to bring that new life into the world.
[01:22:33]  And it's really like among all the million things that feminism has done to destroy Western society, one of them is it's one of the most essential and core damages it's done is convinced women that they are not women serving the function of women.
[01:22:50]  And as soon as you've convinced a woman that it's not her telos to give and nurture life, then some of the more extremes.
[01:23:01]  Like transgenderism are actually a very small step away from that because you've already convinced women that they're not women as the telos of women calls them to be.
[01:23:11]  We have one more clip in this segment, and so we're going to roll that, and then we're going to be wrapping up the discussion here after that.
[01:23:18]  And you know, Dave Rubin said this in your conversation with him, too, that his husband, David, is very nurturing and very empathetic.
[01:23:25]  Yes, which is true.
[01:23:26]  That he's going to.
[01:23:27]  Yeah, sure.
[01:23:28]  Well, you know, one of the other.
[01:23:31]  Categories of children whose stories we try to catalog at them before us as children with same sex parents.
[01:23:38]  Our website, thembeforeus.com, probably has the largest story bank of kids with LGBT parents.
[01:23:44]  And for a while, I had a very active group chat of kids with two moms or two dads who could just talk amongst themselves.
[01:23:50]  Because I'll tell you, if there's one demographic in this country that's truly in the closet, it's kids with same sex parents who desperately miss their mother or father, but cannot say that out loud because they are accused of being bigots.
[01:24:04]  And homophobes, even by people in their own family.
[01:24:07]  So the place where they can talk to each other is sort of in these anonymous spaces.
[01:24:10]  And there were a lot of those kids who would openly admit.
[01:24:14]  I mean, most of them had two moms.
[01:24:16]  There was only one that had two dads at one point, and they didn't stay too long.
[01:24:20]  But many of them would say, look, I had a femme mom and I had a butch mom.
[01:24:24]  I mean, those words, their words, not mine.
[01:24:27]  You know, and the butch mom worked on cars, shaved her head, was stockier.
[01:24:33]  And the femme mom, Longer hair, kind of slim, worked in the kitchen.
[01:24:38]  And I asked them, I said, Did any of those butch moms meet your need for a father?
[01:24:44]  And they're like, No, she was my butch mom.
[01:24:47]  And I loved her, I appreciated her, I respected her, but I craved male love.
[01:24:52]  So, this is not the kind of thing where a man can put on sort of a feminine presence.
[01:24:58]  Kids actually want, crave, need, deserve, and have a right to their mother and their father.
[01:25:04]  They don't want somebody that acts masculine or asks feminine, at least from the kids that I know.
[01:25:08]  And obviously, I probably have a slanted sampling because the kids that are coming to me, many of which are going to come after this interview, too, we get.
[01:25:18]  Tons of letters and testimonies from kids who cannot say this kind of thing out loud anywhere else.
[01:25:26]  Yeah, and just the idea that we, like, it was almost as quickly as surrogacy started rising and as gay quote unquote marriage became legalized that we started hearing it doesn't matter.
[01:25:45]  A kid can have two dads, two moms, they're going to still fulfill kind of the same traditional masculine or feminine role.
[01:25:53]  One's going to be nurturing, one's going to push the boundaries.
[01:25:56]  And the fact that two lesbians, one's a little more masculine, one's a little more feminine, like we were told immediately.
[01:26:04]  I mean, I don't even remember any discussion about that in the larger society.
[01:26:09]  Yeah, that's just as good as your actual biological father and your actual biological mother.
[01:26:15]  And among all the things that we have to stop and think about with surrogacy, that is an important thing that just gets glossed completely over.
[01:26:23]  That a mom is not a dad, and the dad is not a mom, and they cannot be replaced.
[01:26:27]  And to think about the children who, like, Joel, I won't presume to speak for you, but I would imagine growing up, if you're an adopted child, it would be difficult to say to your adoptive parents, I love you, but I also have, you know, a sort of hole where the biological parent would have been.
[01:26:49]  And so then that's just an understandable sentiment.
[01:26:53]  But to take a child who is actually just a virtue signal.
[01:26:58]  And is expected to extol and love and promote the idea of same sex marriage as the greatest thing since sliced bread.
[01:27:07]  And then to tell that child you cannot express the reality of the pain and the hurt and the loss that you have.
[01:27:13]  Because if you do, it's not just insensitive, it's actually immoral and wicked for you to feel or to say those sorts of things out loud.
[01:27:23]  I mean, of all the dynamics that she's talking about, that is a terrible, terrible thing to do to a child.
[01:27:29]  I was reliably informed this was just caring what two adults do in the privacy of their bedroom.
[01:27:34]  I was right.
[01:27:34]  Why would you care about that?
[01:27:35]  Why would that impact society?
[01:27:37]  What does this have to do with you?
[01:27:38]  What does it have to do with society?
[01:27:39]  It's just, you know, two consensual adults in the privacy of their bedroom.
[01:27:42]  But no, it's, yeah, it's, we're talking about children and then those children and all the decisions and the consequences that they make, the ramifications, the ripples that come from this.
[01:27:54]  Yeah, eventually we're going to have to pay the piper and the cost is going to be severe.
[01:28:01]  And all this, you know, it's, I think it all, it all, I mean, different expressions, and certainly, like, they're not all the same.
[01:28:09]  There's distinct expressions.
[01:28:11]  But the root underneath all of it is, again, just this war on nature that everything is interchangeable.
[01:28:18]  Like this, I mean, this gets down to, you know, nations too.
[01:28:21]  It's like, well, you know, like, I mean, if the birth rate in America drops or whatever, you know, we can just have, you know, immigration and, you know, different people can come in and they're interchanging.
[01:28:31]  And they'll, you know, as long as, you know, we're selective and try to be careful.
[01:28:34]  And this is conservative.
[01:28:35]  You know, like as long as we're careful and like, yeah, we've had too much immigration, but we went overboard a little bit, you know.
[01:28:41]  But, but immigration is really good.
[01:28:43]  And as long as we're maybe just a little bit more selective about it.
[01:28:46]  You know, or like, you know, it's the old expression where they say, well, immigration is awesome.
[01:28:52]  Illegal immigration, that's the problem.
[01:28:54]  You know, and so it's like, and we can just replace Americans.
[01:28:58]  We can replace the founding stock of this country with anyone.
[01:29:04]  You know, it can be Pakistanis, it can be Indians, it can be, you know, whatever.
[01:29:08]  And every, you know, people are just interchangeable.
[01:29:10]  It's the same concept.
[01:29:11]  That's what I'm trying to drive home.
[01:29:13]  That you can just replace a mother with a second father.
[01:29:15]  You can just replace a father with a second.
[01:29:17]  Mother, you could replace the biological mother with an adoptive mother, and you can, you know, and you can replace an American with, you know, H1B, you know, Indian.
[01:29:26]  You can replace this, you can replace.
[01:29:28]  We're talking about people.
[01:29:29]  You can't replace people.
[01:29:31]  You can't.
[01:29:32]  I've seen stories from adopted Chinese children that were in America.
[01:29:36]  They said, I felt like I was not at home.
[01:29:38]  Right.
[01:29:39]  Like always lived there, adopted, brought over very young.
[01:29:41]  My whole life, and they don't even say Mandarin.
[01:29:43]  And they're literally like, no, I feel like a deep aching of like, this doesn't feel like home.
[01:29:47]  I've visited and gone back.
[01:29:49]  I want to live there.
[01:29:50]  I was taken away.
[01:29:51]  Yeah.
[01:29:51]  I was taken away.
[01:29:54]  Yeah.
[01:29:54]  And so, yeah, people are not widgets.
[01:29:57]  We are playing Mr. Potato Head with everything.
[01:30:01]  The thing about Mr. Potato Head is it renders absurdities and you laugh because it's a child's toy.
[01:30:07]  Right.
[01:30:07]  But we are rendering absurdities in real time, in real life.
[01:30:10]  And we won't laugh.

=== Grace for Ministry Supporters (07:22) ===

[01:30:11]  Yep.
[01:30:11]  And we will not see it.
[01:30:12]  And we will not see it.
[01:30:12]  You will see man made horrors beyond your comprehension.
[01:30:15]  That's what we're doing with technology.
[01:30:16]  All these people are going to grow up one day and they're going to be furious.
[01:30:22]  Well, that's the young men that already are supremely right wing because they've endured for the last.
[01:30:26]  10 years being told there is nothing wrong with love is love and nothing wrong with two men adopting a kid and they hate it and they're about to burn the system down because they say it's disgusting.
[01:30:37]  Right.
[01:30:38]  Yep.
[01:30:38]  Yeah.
[01:30:39]  All right.
[01:30:40]  We do have a couple of super chats.
[01:30:42]  None of them were really questions, but we still just want to acknowledge that they came in and thank you.
[01:30:46]  So BJJ wins again.
[01:30:49]  Super chat $4.99.
[01:30:50]  Thanks very much, BJJ.
[01:30:52]  Very generous of you.
[01:30:53]  He says, don't forget embryo attrition, the process where the vast majority of embryos die in the dish.
[01:30:58]  Before implantation or testing or freezing.
[01:31:01]  And yes, I think we mentioned that after you made that comment.
[01:31:04]  Yep.
[01:31:05]  Granddad Farms, thanks very much.
[01:31:06]  Great to see you again.
[01:31:07]  Always good to see you in the chat.
[01:31:08]  Super chat, $4.99.
[01:31:10]  He just says GA.
[01:31:11]  GA.
[01:31:12]  It is a good afternoon.
[01:31:13]  It's Friday.
[01:31:13]  It's Friday.
[01:31:14]  Yeah.
[01:31:15]  Anything else to add, Joel?
[01:31:16]  Yeah.
[01:31:17]  Just for the listener, like some of you guys, you may not be aware right now, but you might find out a little bit later.
[01:31:22]  But just to let you know, we are aware that, and for the record, we've known that this is coming for quite some time.
[01:31:30]  But accusers, we have been alerted that.
[01:31:32]  Accusers of the brethren are doing what accusers of the brethren tend to do.
[01:31:36]  Accusers are going to accuse.
[01:31:38]  They've got to accuse.
[01:31:39]  And so we're coming up.
[01:31:41]  We've, you know, even for our church, you know, I didn't want to, you know, handle a lot of this publicly, at least not preemptively, but for our church, you know, in the pastoral local context, we let people know that as we're coming up on our Crisis King conference, you know, there are many enemies that we've made along the way that absolutely hate me, hate our ministry, want to see it destroyed.
[01:32:01]  And so, anyway, so some of that has just now surfaced publicly online.
[01:32:07]  And I have a full response, and I've actually had it prepared for quite a long time.
[01:32:13]  And I'm not going to drop it.
[01:32:16]  I'm just going to wait because I can.
[01:32:20]  Because God is good, He's sovereign, He's reigning supreme over everything.
[01:32:27]  And when my enemies say jump, no, no.
[01:32:34]  So everyone who needs to know knows.
[01:32:37]  Every member of our congregation has a full, thorough understanding written and has known.
[01:32:47]  And eventually, the public, because there are many of you who are actually good faith followers, who appreciate this ministry, care about me, care about my family, are planning on coming to the conference, all these kinds of things.
[01:32:58]  And so that's great.
[01:32:59]  And so you deserve an answer.
[01:33:02]  And so we will give a thorough public answer.
[01:33:06]  But it's okay.
[01:33:08]  I think a lot of times people, you know, people just, you know, they'll see, you know, with cancel culture or whatever it may be, and they're like, oh my gosh, you know, like, what are you going to do?
[01:33:18]  Or, you know, we got to get together.
[01:33:19]  We got to, you know, get a response right away.
[01:33:21]  We got to do this.
[01:33:22]  And it's, you actually don't.
[01:33:24]  You actually don't.
[01:33:26]  You can rest in the grace of God, his forgiveness, his sovereignty, especially when it comes to things that are dug up from the past, things that have been dealt with, things that have been confessed, and things that have been forgiven.
[01:33:42]  Our ministry applies all of Christ to all of life.
[01:33:45]  We deal a lot with culture, with politics, with, you know, surrogacy, you know, things like, you know, what we're talking about today.
[01:33:53]  But first and foremost, we are a Christian ministry.
[01:33:56]  And so one of the prerequisites for that is that we believe the gospel.
[01:34:02]  And we don't just believe the gospel for others, but we believe it for ourselves.
[01:34:07]  We believe that Christ took our sin, it was buried with him.
[01:34:12]  And, you know, Nailed to the cross, atoned for in full.
[01:34:17]  And so, for those of you again who are faithful supporters, good faith listeners, have been in our court, been defending us from various attacks from you're anti Semitic, you're misogynist, you're racist, all the ad nauseum usual kinds of attacks that are levied against us.
[01:34:40]  We just want to say thank you so much.
[01:34:42]  Thank you for following us, for supporting us.
[01:34:44]  For giving towards this ministry, for your emails of encouragement, your prayers, all these things, we pray that it will continue.
[01:34:51]  And for you, you deserve a response, and so you will get one.
[01:34:55]  We'll probably put it out tomorrow morning.
[01:34:58]  That's been our plan.
[01:34:58]  I've talked to my elders, talked to my deacons, and they stood by me 100%.
[01:35:04]  And in fact, they actually, in some sense, felt this more strongly than I did, insisted and said, Yeah, as soon as, you know, we know it's coming, and as soon as it comes, feel free.
[01:35:15]  To not do anything, feel free to just relax.
[01:35:19]  Michael's one of the elders at our church.
[01:35:20]  He was like, No, you don't have to jump just because your enemies say jump.
[01:35:26]  And so, we will give a response, though, especially for those of you who are supporters and followers of this ministry.
[01:35:33]  So, if you've seen anything brewing online, there's my response for now.
[01:35:38]  We're not going to do a video on it.
[01:35:41]  This will be the last that you hear from us over the weekend.
[01:35:44]  We'll come back with our regular schedule on Monday.
[01:35:46]  For those of you who are new to the channel, it's Monday, Wednesday, and Friday at 3 p.m. Central Time.
[01:35:51]  The live stream is three times a week.
[01:35:54]  And then as soon as we pick up with April, the first Friday of April, we will resume our Friday special, kicking it off with season two with Dr. Stephen Wolf on all things Christian nationalism.
[01:36:06]  And then with the incident that I was just addressing, we're not going to do a full episode.
[01:36:13]  I have a written response, and that's probably all we'll say.
[01:36:15]  We're doing a great episode on Monday.
[01:36:17]  Yeah, oh, dude, Monday.
[01:36:19]  What is this?
[01:36:19]  Monday's going to be a baller episode, and I hate to put pressure on Nathan, but the topic kind of demands.
[01:36:28]  I won't set the bar too high, but it's got to be the best one we've ever done.
[01:36:32]  The most epic cold open that's ever been done.
[01:36:35]  Nathan thinks he's going home at five today.
[01:36:37]  He's packing everything up, having dinner.
[01:36:38]  No, you're staying here.
[01:36:40]  You're editing all weekend.
[01:36:42]  Can we tease a little bit?
[01:36:44]  The title of the video is The State Must Reform the Church.
[01:36:48]  Oh, people are not going to like it.
[01:36:49]  Must Reform the Church.
[01:36:51]  But I think there's a biblical and historical argument for it.
[01:36:54]  Yep.
[01:36:54]  You'll have to tune in.
[01:36:55]  Okay.
[01:36:55]  So we'll see you, Lord willing, on Monday at 3 p.m. Central Time.
[01:36:59]  Make sure to go to church this Lord's Day.
[01:37:01]  Thanks for all of your support, all of your prayers, all of your generosity.
[01:37:06]  You can give to this ministry by going to writeresponse.com.
[01:37:09]  Ministries.com forward slash donate if you'd like to.
[01:37:13]  And then again, make sure to join our gold member Patreon by going to patreon.com forward slash right response ministries.
[01:37:21]  For those of you who are not able in person to make it to our Crisis King conference, which is coming up in just a few short weeks, by joining us on Patreon as a gold member, you'll be able to live stream it and I think you'll be blessed.
[01:37:33]  All right.