NXR Podcast - THE LIVESTREAM - Nabal, Abigail, and Red Dresses
Aired: 2024-12-04
Duration: 01:29:01


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[00:00:47]  You have heard it said that we need more modern day Abigailes.
[00:00:51]  Supposedly, we are in short supply of women with the wisdom and courage to stand up to their husbands on everything ranging from seed oils to the 19th Amendment to re voice for Nazis.
[00:01:03]  But if you think that we really need in this hour a more assertive and scheming and ultimately disobedient populace of women in our society, then you haven't just lost the plot.
[00:01:17]  There's a case to be made that you've lost the whole book, namely the Bible.
[00:01:21]  The biblical authority of the husband in the home is under attack today, perhaps more than it has ever been before.
[00:01:29]  If we are going to change the tide, we don't need feminism just repackaged with Bible stories.
[00:01:36]  Instead, we need a wholesale embrace of God's design for the home, especially when dealing with these issues.
[00:01:44]  Join us today with special guest Dr. Stephen Wolfe as we discuss this topic.
[00:02:00]  GA, gentlemen, GA, GA, good afternoon.
[00:02:03]  Welcome, Dr. Stephen Wolf.
[00:02:05]  Thank you.
[00:02:06]  This is one of the few moments where I wish I had a PhD, which will never happen, just so that I could say, Doctor, I wish all of us, Doctor, Doctor, Doctor, Doctor.
[00:02:15]  Yeah, you guys can call me Doctor.

=== Welcome Dr Stephen Wolf (05:12) ===

[00:02:18]  No, I have been told reliably from you that if you are friends with Stephen, you can call him Stephen.
[00:02:24]  I'd like to think we're friends.
[00:02:29]  I've known enough people who have PhDs who are not.
[00:02:32]  Worthy of it.
[00:02:33]  So I'll just take Stephen and we'll leave it at that.
[00:02:36]  Fair enough.
[00:02:37]  Okay, so you guys have seen the outline for our show today, but I do have a brief announcement before we get started.
[00:02:44]  So the reason why Stephen is with us in the flesh is because the two of us just finished recording a 10 part series on Christian nationalism.
[00:02:53]  And we're roughly following the outline of Stephen's book, The Case for Christian Nationalism, but lots of juicy bonus material that's thrown in.
[00:03:02]  And so that series is going to At first, it's going to be available exclusively to our Patreon members, but we've kind of just like landed on a new strategy.
[00:03:12]  Okay, so here's basically the schedule.
[00:03:14]  It's pretty simple.
[00:03:15]  You guys are aware, many of you who follow our show, that right now, if you are a Patreon member at our lowest tier, silver tier, five bucks a month, you have full access without any ads to the nine part series with Pastor Andrew Isker and myself on the subject of Israel and looking at biblical, theological, covenantal.
[00:03:37]  Even getting into ethnicity and these kinds of things, how should the church view Israel today?
[00:03:42]  And also, even politically speaking, how should we view Israel?
[00:03:46]  And so, that's a nine part series that has been making waves and it hasn't even been released to the public.
[00:03:52]  But a lot of people have signed up and joined our Patreon and been privy to that entire show.
[00:03:56]  Well, Lord willing, the plan is starting in January.
[00:03:59]  So, next month, next year, year of our Lord 2025, we're going to be doing Monday, Wednesday, and Friday.
[00:04:07]  Our live stream that right now is only once a week on Wednesdays.
[00:04:10]  It's going to be three times a week, Monday, Wednesday, and Friday at 4 p.m. Central Time.
[00:04:14]  And we're going to keep the Friday special and release that later in the evening, maybe like 7 p.m. Central Time or 8 p.m. Central Time.
[00:04:22]  And what we're going to do is the whole nine part series with Iskar and I on Israel is going to slow drip one episode a week on Fridays in the evening, starting the first Friday of January to the public.
[00:04:35]  No longer behind the paywall, but it's going to be public on X, on YouTube.
[00:04:40]  Write response website, app, the whole nine yards, everything, podcast platforms, Spotify, Apple, whatever you use.
[00:04:47]  And at the exact same time, we're going to sync it up.
[00:04:50]  When we go public with the series that right now is behind the paywall with Iskar and I on Israel, that will then be the same time that we make Stephen Wolf's series, 10 part series with Stephen Wolf and I available exclusive to our Patreon members.
[00:05:06]  And then after Q1, January through March, Of publicly bringing out the Isker series and privately for Patreon members having the Wolf series.
[00:05:18]  After that, starting in April, Lord willing, then Wolf and I, that series will be made available to the public.
[00:05:23]  So ultimately, what you're doing is number one, you're supporting a ministry that preaches the Word of God, and we appreciate your support and generosity, and we can't do it without you.
[00:05:32]  But then number two, you're paying for not necessarily exclusive access, but you're paying for early access and ad free access.
[00:05:41]  Anyway, so Wolf and I, our series will be available to our Patreon members exclusively starting in January.
[00:05:47]  And then, Lord willing, in April, we'll go ahead and release that to the public.
[00:05:50]  So that's the announcement for today.
[00:05:52]  So let's go ahead and hop into our topic.
[00:05:55]  Go ahead.
[00:05:56]  Those watching, please give us a like.
[00:05:58]  Yes.
[00:05:58]  Subscribe.
[00:05:59]  You know the deal, but we say it every week just because.
[00:06:02]  Yep.
[00:06:02]  Are we live on X, Nathan?
[00:06:04]  Did that work out?
[00:06:09]  Okay, so we're streaming right now on YouTube for sure, maybe also simultaneously on X. If you're watching this on YouTube, subscribe on YouTube, click the bell, give us a thumbs up for the algorithm, put a silly comment just to boost the algorithm and get it out to as many people as possible.
[00:06:23]  But also, if you're watching on YouTube, go ahead and make sure that you cross over and follow Right Response Ministries on X.
[00:06:29]  The handle is at Right Response Ministries.
[00:06:32]  M underscore, I believe, at right response M. There might be an underscore.
[00:06:36]  No, no, no, no, underscore.
[00:06:37]  So, right at right response M.
[00:06:40]  So, follow us over there on X so that you can not miss out on anything.
[00:06:44]  And if you're following us right now, if it is streaming on X, make sure that you also follow us on YouTube, subscribe on YouTube.
[00:06:49]  Okay.
[00:06:51]  So, let's go ahead and without any further ado, let's play what we want to do is we want to show a tweet, we want to show a screenshot of an advertisement from Canon Press, and we also want to play a clip.
[00:07:02]  That recently surfaced from Doug Wilson, Pastor Doug Wilson, Moscow, with his children, Rachel Jankovic, Becca Merkel, and Andrew, or Nate Wilson.
[00:07:14]  So, we're going to let's start with the clip and then we're going to sync that up.
[00:07:18]  Immediately after that, we'll show the advertisement from Canon because the two relate to one another.
[00:07:24]  And then we'll show a Twitter poll that was run by Pastor Tom Buck.
[00:07:28]  And for the record, we love and respect all these guys.

=== Abigail And The Elders (14:49) ===

[00:07:31]  But then we're going to respectfully show why we don't think it's particularly helpful.
[00:07:35]  Okay, so if you're ready, here's the clip.
[00:07:38]  Seems to be walking with the Lord, seems to be trying to do her duty, and her husband is going off the deep end.
[00:07:46]  What is the.
[00:07:47]  I've said a number of times over the years, and this would be another occasion to say it again, is that in a world where some men can go the Nabal route, I have wished for more Abigail's.
[00:08:00]  How, I guess what I'm trying to say is, how would you tell a woman to be an Abigail?
[00:08:06]  I would say, Tell them to say to their husband, honey, wherever you're going, I'm not.
[00:08:13]  Okay.
[00:08:13]  I'm not going there.
[00:08:14]  And if you don't stop going there, I'm setting up a flare.
[00:08:17]  We're talking to the elders.
[00:08:20]  We're not going to go off silently, sadly into the night.
[00:08:24]  Would you say that she should refuse to move?
[00:08:27]  Like if he's so safe.
[00:08:30]  He tries to flee accountability.
[00:08:31]  Right.
[00:08:31]  Say things they're already leaving.
[00:08:33]  He wants to leave the church.
[00:08:34]  He wants to move.
[00:08:34]  She doesn't have cause, grounds for divorce in the sense that he's not been.
[00:08:39]  Unfaithful to her, but he wants to move them to a place where she knows she'd have no.
[00:08:45]  Is that what you mean?
[00:08:45]  Being Abigail, say, I'm I think the Abigail thing, I always think it's the coolest thing that she saved both men in that she saved Nabal from getting killed by David, but she saved David from killing Nabal.
[00:09:00]  And so she went behind Nabal's back, who was her current husband, but she also stopped her future husband from doing something that was going to be wicked.
[00:09:10]  And she, the way she confronted him, like.
[00:09:13]  Like, so she went behind Nabal's back, but she also went very respectfully to David, but said, Don't do this thing that you're planning to do.
[00:09:19]  Yeah.
[00:09:20]  You know, so we need more, basically, in dire situations with Nabal's, we need Abigail's.
[00:09:27]  Now, at the same time, I'm saying that in a generation where many, many wives have never thought of obeying their husbands ever.
[00:09:35]  Right.
[00:09:35]  And she shouldn't.
[00:09:37]  But it seems like they all think to do it when they shouldn't.
[00:09:41]  Yeah.
[00:09:42]  In the time when they ought to say, No.
[00:09:45]  Absolutely not.
[00:09:46]  Well, it's embarrassing.
[00:09:47]  It's actually, it's embarrassing.
[00:09:48]  Right, but if he says, let's eat more homemade meals, she might feel free to say, absolutely not, but not when it comes to.
[00:09:55]  So, what you're saying is send up a flare, get elders involved to make sure that it's on the radar, don't disappear quietly.
[00:10:00]  Right.
[00:10:01]  So, one of the things that Abigail did there is she went and talked to David and she went and talked to David in a way that her husband would absolutely have hated and forbidden.
[00:10:09]  Yeah.
[00:10:10]  And that, like, get help, like, basically get help.
[00:10:14]  No, even if your husband doesn't want you to get help, you have to get help.
[00:10:18]  And you would say that.
[00:10:19]  And then she went and told her husband what she'd done.
[00:10:21]  And you should also say, though, for friends of that woman, that they need to be encouraging her straightforwardly.
[00:10:27]  To do that, yeah, but it's also incredibly brave both directions because she'd be really brave to go do what she knew would infuriate Nate Ball, but she's also going to David, who's really mad right now and is on the way.
[00:10:39]  No, and I think, I think, and she like throws herself in front to say, Please don't do this, you know, like, but also the guys that are doing this kind of thing are being imbalanced.
[00:10:49]  It's a scary man who's going this way.
[00:10:53]  It takes courage to stand up to a husband, at least at his keyboard in the dark.
[00:10:57]  No, for a woman, for a woman, a husband.
[00:11:00]  Losing his grip on reality is a terrifying, yeah, it's just scary.
[00:11:04]  So, I have a lot of we can end on that optimistic note.
[00:11:08]  Wow, but I think the good don't like it.
[00:11:13]  Any thoughts?
[00:11:15]  I've got thoughts, but I'll open up to you guys first.
[00:11:19]  I mean, we'll say that like women are tend to be consensus driven, right?
[00:11:24]  Uh, men tend to be more truth driven, contesting.
[00:11:28]  Oh, sure, but like more of contesting and more of questioning, more agonistic, contrarian.
[00:11:34]  And so, when you have, yeah, contrarian.
[00:11:37]  So, this sets up a battle between a consensus driven person and a more agonistic questioning person.
[00:11:49]  And in a time in which you have a society that is going absolutely nuts, when there's propaganda and a lot of things that are simply plainly false, that we are required then to believe, like by society.
[00:12:06]  What this is setting up is that the consensus driven person can use the authority of the church as a third party to then silence the husband with regard to things that they should question.
[00:12:19]  Yeah, so I think that's the, at a time like this in which there are these social dynamics where you are required to believe certain things that are plainly false or at least very questionable, you're now, you're wielding the consensus driven party to then use a third party, namely the church, to silence them, essentially bring them back into the consensus.
[00:12:39]  Yep.
[00:12:40]  So it's, I think it's, apart from whether or not it's good as a principle in certain situations, in our time now, it sounds to me as if it's the wrong thing to emphasize.
[00:12:50]  Yeah.
[00:12:50]  Yep.
[00:12:51]  There can be a way to undercut the husband's authority.
[00:12:52]  You could think of the front door, which is to say, no, I won't do that.
[00:12:56]  But someone pointed out in the comments sin, according, because the one exception to the husband's authority would be if he commands her to commit an act of sin.
[00:13:04]  Well, he defines.
[00:13:04]  Or forbids her from committing an act of righteousness.
[00:13:07]  Exactly.
[00:13:07]  But then who defines what is sin?
[00:13:10]  What is righteousness that she's forbidden from?
[00:13:12]  So she could straight up defy him and say, No, I'm not doing that.
[00:13:15]  Or she could say, Well, I actually think this is sin.
[00:13:18]  And the end outcome is the same.
[00:13:20]  His command, his word is not obeyed.
[00:13:22]  She's not obedient to her husband, as the Bible says.
[00:13:24]  But she's conveniently cloaked it in, Well, I think this is sin.
[00:13:28]  I've determined privately, not from any type of church document, not from elders, not from spiritual discernment, but privately here, I've decided that to do this or to not do this would be sin.
[00:13:38]  My interpretation rules.
[00:13:40]  And I'm going to take that and go to the elders again to the same outcome being, I disobeyed my husband.
[00:13:45]  Yep.
[00:13:45]  I'll say this.
[00:13:47]  First, in defense of the Wilsons, who I love, Doug is right in principle.
[00:13:54]  The problem that I have with this particular clip, and as a counter to anybody who would say we're taking it out of context, it's actually the larger context that gives me more concern.
[00:14:08]  And I'm going to provide even further context beyond just the video as a whole by showing the way it was synced up with a particular advertisement from Canon in their email blast, because that provides context as well.
[00:14:19]  And the context doesn't help, it hurts, in my opinion.
[00:14:22]  But first, to levy a defense.
[00:14:25]  Other Wilsons, particularly Doug.
[00:14:29]  I think the principle is thoroughly biblical and right.
[00:14:33]  So, if we're saying all forms of human authority can err, all forms of human authority can err to the point that would be categorically abusive and therefore tyrannical, and all forms of human authority include the male headship and authority of a husband in the home.
[00:14:55]  So, there are times.
[00:14:57]  Where I absolutely, as a pastor, would counsel if I had knowledge of something, and there have been a few cases over the course of my ministry where this has happened, where I would say, Yeah, the elders have to get involved.
[00:15:08]  And not only the elders, not only do you need to go outside of the sphere of the household and your husband, and is it right and good that you've approached the elders, but we also need to involve another sphere, namely the civil magistrate.
[00:15:19]  You need to make a phone call to the police, right?
[00:15:22]  So if a husband is beating the children, God forbid, then yeah, that wife needs to come to the elders of the church.
[00:15:30]  And needs to call a sheriff, you know, or whatever.
[00:15:34]  The problem that I have is not the principle.
[00:15:36]  And I did notice, again, in defense of the Wilsons, there were some people on X who were that the counter, the attack and criticism that they were levying was from a place of disagreeing with the principle.
[00:15:51]  I would advise against that in this case.
[00:15:53]  Sometimes people present principles that aren't good principles, and so then have at it.
[00:15:58]  But I don't think this is one of those instances.
[00:16:00]  I think the principle is a universally true biblical principle.
[00:16:04]  Certain authorities can get into the realm of tyranny and categorical abuse.
[00:16:10]  And in those cases, those under those authorities have the right, and even at times it's even obligatory that they appeal to other authorities for the safety of others and so that righteousness might prevail.
[00:16:21]  That's fine.
[00:16:22]  That is totally fine.
[00:16:23]  Here's the problem it's not the principle.
[00:16:25]  The problem is the case study.
[00:16:30]  The specificity of the case study, but the lack thereof.
[00:16:34]  The fact that the only example that's being offered is a very vague and ambiguous example of, well, my husband is just too far right wing.
[00:16:45]  And what I want to say is, what's too far right wing?
[00:16:49]  And from biblical definitions, not post war consensus, you know, popular opinion sources, but from a biblical source, I need you to put a little bit more meat on those bones.
[00:17:01]  And say that if this is an Abigail moment, and I also disagree with the biblical illustration.
[00:17:06]  So I agree with the principle.
[00:17:08]  I disagree with the scripture that they're using to back it up.
[00:17:11]  And I certainly disagree with the lack of a clear example of when this is necessary.
[00:17:17]  And so, one, give me an example.
[00:17:21]  Give me an example.
[00:17:22]  And too far right wing is not a good example.
[00:17:25]  That's because what's too far right wing?
[00:17:27]  It's too vague, it's too ambiguous, it's not helpful.
[00:17:30]  Because too far right wing could literally just be my husband.
[00:17:34]  Refused to watch the new Bonhoeffer movie because he said that Bonhoeffer was a heretic.
[00:17:38]  And so I'm calling the elders.
[00:17:42]  So, what are we talking about?
[00:17:43]  What is too far right wing?
[00:17:45]  And then, lastly, the last thing I'll say is I said, you know, I don't appreciate the scripture that's being used.
[00:17:54]  Okay, so this is why.
[00:17:55]  This is a descriptive text.
[00:17:57]  It's fine to use the Bible that way.
[00:17:58]  I'm not a biblicist.
[00:17:59]  We do that all the time.
[00:18:00]  We read descriptive passages in the Old Testament and we can glean certain principles and then translate those into practical applications that are good and godly and pleasing to the Lord.
[00:18:10]  That's how we read the Bible.
[00:18:11]  That's one of the ways that we read the Bible.
[00:18:13]  So I'm not saying that, you know, when we're giving marriage advice, you know, the only two texts we can appeal to are Ephesians 5 and 1 Peter 3.
[00:18:20]  It's fine to use the Bible the way they're doing it.
[00:18:22]  But if we want to be fair with this particular story, Abigail is not tattling on her husband.
[00:18:30]  The reason David is coming with all his men to kill her husband is because he's already been informed.
[00:18:36]  So she's not tattling, informing, because in this illustration, the way they're using it, David would be representative of the senior pastor and his mighty men or whatever, whoever's with him are the elders.
[00:18:47]  So David represents the pastors of the church.
[00:18:49]  Nabal represents your far right wing.
[00:18:51]  Husband and Abigail is this wise and courageous Christian woman.
[00:18:55]  Well, if we're going to use the passage for what it actually says and apply it the way that the passage actually unfolds, then you would have to say in this case, it's not a woman going to the elders asking for protection from her husband, informing them with something that they previously don't know.
[00:19:10]  It's actually the elders of the church already do know somehow through the grapevine, and the elders, she's not trying to stop her husband and his foolishness by getting the protection of the elders.
[00:19:21]  She's actually starting trying to stop the foolishness of the elders.
[00:19:25]  In other words, David's coming to kill.
[00:19:26]  So, if we want to liken it to the church world, the elders caught wind that the husband of a particular Christian woman is too far right wing and they're coming to excommunicate him.
[00:19:37]  And the wise Abigail is saying, Pastors, oh, please do not sin by overreacting and exercising the keys of the king.
[00:19:43]  You want to be accurate in using the passage?
[00:19:44]  That would be the direct application.
[00:19:46]  So, I actually think the passage goes directly against what you're advocating for, which makes it just all the more humorous and ironic on its face.
[00:19:55]  That's my two cents.
[00:19:56]  Yeah, it seems like a case where.
[00:20:00]  The principle that's being drawn out is a good principle, like you say.
[00:20:05]  Yes.
[00:20:07]  But because the principle is good, we don't then interrogate the passage and say, wait a minute, is that actually what's going on in that passage?
[00:20:17]  Is that the lesson that that passage is telling us?
[00:20:20]  And that's probably not the lesson that that passage is telling us.
[00:20:23]  Yeah.
[00:20:23]  Now, certainly there was a sense where Abigail did risk infuriating her husband going to David.
[00:20:29]  Right.
[00:20:29]  And so in that sense, They're right.
[00:20:32]  Like there may have been ramifications at home after the fact for her when he found out.
[00:20:37]  And so she was, in a sense, going against him.
[00:20:39]  But he was being overtly foolish to the point where his life and who knows how many others were on the line.
[00:20:47]  And it would have left Abigail, best case scenario, if they hadn't accidentally gone too far and wiped out the entire family, like she would have been left without a husband, a provider.
[00:20:58]  She was really interceding for more than a sin issue.
[00:21:03]  Yeah.
[00:21:03]  More than just a foolish sin issue on Abigail's part.
[00:21:08]  She was interceding for her livelihood, her life, the life of all the men in the home who were now going to be claimed because of Nabel's foolishness.
[00:21:16]  Right.
[00:21:17]  She wasn't a narc.
[00:21:18]  She wasn't tattling on her husband's failure.
[00:21:21]  She was intervening.
[00:21:21]  She was seeking to preserve.
[00:21:22]  To stop the potential soon to be failure.
[00:21:27]  She was actually, she wasn't getting her husband in trouble.
[00:21:31]  She was saving him from trouble by stopping.
[00:21:34]  What would have been not just Nabal's foolishness, but stopping the foolishness of the elders.
[00:21:38]  The elders were coming to the house to exercise abuse.
[00:21:44]  So, this actually wasn't an abusive husband.
[00:21:46]  Nabal was foolish, to be sure.
[00:21:48]  But this is actually abusive elders are about to do something tyrannical.
[00:21:53]  And the wise wife is intervening and saying, Yeah, my husband might be off here.
[00:21:59]  But what you're about to do is even more wicked.
[00:22:02]  Please don't excommunicate my husband for listening to the Martyr Maid podcast.
[00:22:08]  Like that.
[00:22:08]  I mean, that's.
[00:22:09]  If we're going to use the text, that seems to be far more obvious from the text than the way that the Wilsons are using it.
[00:22:15]  Any thoughts on that?
[00:22:18]  Nope.
[00:22:18]  I was going to say.
[00:22:19]  Sorry.

=== Ambiguity In Head Covering (09:22) ===

[00:22:20]  That requires a degree of courage to go with what Stephen said earlier, where women are more consensus driven.
[00:22:27]  That requires a courage that flies in the face of what they're being pressured to do.
[00:22:31]  That seems to me a more biblical and godly courage that we ought to esteem in our women.
[00:22:36]  Reject the impulse to react purely by consensus.
[00:22:40]  Do what is right.
[00:22:42]  Defend your family.
[00:22:44]  Insist on the truth and even defend your leaders from even greater foolishness than has been displayed already.
[00:22:49]  Right.
[00:22:49]  She's not disagreeing with her husband and teaming up with the elders.
[00:22:53]  She's disagreeing with everybody, including the elders, especially, you might argue, the elders, if David and his men represent the elders.
[00:23:00]  So now let's go ahead, Nathan, and show on the screen the screenshot of the canon ad, because I think this illustrates my point the principle is true, but the text used, I think, actually argues the opposite of the principle.
[00:23:14]  And the lack of an example, specificity of an example of when the husband really is too far or off the deep end, as Ms. Jankovic said.
[00:23:24]  If there was any confusion about what that looks like, this ad from Canon made it even less clear and more confusing.
[00:23:33]  It says, We need more Abigail's.
[00:23:35]  Abigail went behind her husband's back to stop her future husband from doing something wicked, thus saving both men in an afternoon.
[00:23:43]  Such wisdom and courage are in short supply.
[00:23:47]  And here we go.
[00:23:47]  I think this.
[00:23:49]  Confuses things.
[00:23:50]  From seed oils to essential oils, repealing the 19th to revoicing the Nazis.
[00:23:57]  Get the wisdom to see the path and the courage to walk in it.
[00:24:02]  The reason why I think that's unhelpful is because here we have examples of when a wife should go around her husband, usurp his authority, and appeal to another authority, like ecclesiastical authority of the elders, or maybe it's calling the police, civil authority.
[00:24:20]  And the only example cited is.
[00:24:22]  And even with the examples, one, they're silly.
[00:24:24]  Two, Revoice for Nazis, I've said it several times, but under Christian nationalism, it's with a heavy heart, I must declare, that anybody who uses Revoice for Nazis unironically will be immediately deported.
[00:24:36]  And that does include the Wilsons, as much as we love them, the madness has to stop.
[00:24:40]  So Doug is a great writer, and he can't resist a turn of phrase.
[00:24:46]  And I have gotten many a laugh out of his creative writing.
[00:24:49]  He's a great writer.
[00:24:50]  But this one, as much as I know he loves it, he's got to let it go.
[00:24:55]  These are silly examples, but not only are they silly examples, but it's also not even clear from the canon ad whether they're positive or negative examples.
[00:25:04]  So, the seed oils from essential oils to seed oils.
[00:25:08]  So, in that, my question would be are these actual examples?
[00:25:13]  And if so, which one does the wife call the church elders for?
[00:25:18]  Being pro seed oil or against seed oil?
[00:25:21]  Being pro essential oil?
[00:25:22]  Is essential oil the positive one and seed oils are the negative one?
[00:25:25]  Are they both negative?
[00:25:26]  Are they both positive?
[00:25:28]  Like that, it's just unhelpful.
[00:25:30]  And I know that Canon is being silly and it's okay to be humorous, but this is an important issue.
[00:25:36]  And they teamed up the ad.
[00:25:37]  I understand it's Canon, it's not a church, it's a company, it's a printing press, a publisher, and this is an ad for selling product.
[00:25:45]  And that's fine.
[00:25:46]  But because they teamed it up with a ministry and a pastor giving instruction, that's where I would say, as much as you guys want to sell product, I get that.
[00:25:56]  And as much as I appreciate humor, As much as the next guy, but you've teamed it up with a pastoral exhortation.
[00:26:05]  And the pastoral exhortation was already lacking clarity.
[00:26:09]  And your attempt at a humorous advertisement, teamed up with that pastoral exhortation, just takes away even more clarity.
[00:26:18]  And now all the women who their own husbands turned them on to Moscow back in 2020 are now going to be at best confused.
[00:26:29]  About when they should go around their husbands.
[00:26:32]  And at worst, they're going to be invigorated.
[00:26:36]  You know, that wife whose husband has been talking to her about head covering, but her pastor isn't a head covering guy and she's not a head covering gal.
[00:26:47]  Now she might be thinking, is this an example?
[00:26:51]  Is this when I call the elders and tell them I'm concerned about my husband because he's telling me that I should wear.
[00:26:57]  My interpretation is.
[00:26:58]  Right.
[00:26:59]  Well, yeah, I mean, these guys, they tend to.
[00:27:03]  I'd say Doug's done this for a long time, which is thriving on ambiguity.
[00:27:09]  So you use vagueness and ambiguity to get people to respond and say, well, what are the examples?
[00:27:15]  Is it this or that?
[00:27:16]  Is it how far right wing do you have to go?
[00:27:19]  And then that prolongs the discussion and the attention span, and everyone focuses.
[00:27:23]  That's everyone's talking about this now.
[00:27:26]  And then there's a clarification, but mixing the clarification is a further ambiguity that then furthers the discussion on and on and on, which is a good marketing tactic.
[00:27:36]  I mean, it's fine.
[00:27:38]  But on something like this, which actually tells women, which suggests to women that actually you should turn your husbands in for suggesting maybe seed oils or head coverings or something, this is actually people's lives.
[00:27:51]  Like this is their marriage relationship that you are via podcast meddling in directly.
[00:27:59]  And not even within your own church, but also within all the churches, all the people who follow you.
[00:28:04]  So it really becomes at the level irresponsible.
[00:28:08]  It's one thing if it's about, I don't know what the topic would be.
[00:28:11]  I don't know, like theonomy or something like that.
[00:28:13]  You want to do that and it drives a discussion.
[00:28:15]  But when you're actually dealing with real people in their lives, in the most intimate relationship, which is marriage, you don't use marketing ambiguity because it's irresponsible and it can actually harm people.
[00:28:30]  Yeah.
[00:28:30]  And so, yeah, I just fear that a woman, I don't know how many women watch those shows, but then they'll find out that their husband is.
[00:28:41]  Following guys who don't like seed oils, or they want a more natural diet, or they want food that's from scratch and they don't want the package stuff that contains the list of ingredients you can't even pronounce.
[00:28:54]  And they start thinking, maybe it'd be better for us to start eating whole foods or something like that, you know?
[00:29:00]  Right.
[00:29:00]  And all of a sudden, oh, he's a right winger.
[00:29:02]  Like he's an anti seed oil guy.
[00:29:05]  And then it creates tension between the family because the wife is now empowered in order to do that.
[00:29:10]  And then you get the third party involved, namely the pastor, who then, you know, so.
[00:29:15]  I just think it's really irresponsible to use ambiguity in this way.
[00:29:24]  In other cases, fine.
[00:29:25]  They've done that with me, I guess.
[00:29:27]  But in this case, I don't agree with that.
[00:29:29]  But not ambiguity is fine, and humor is certainly fine, and turns of phrases are fine.
[00:29:35]  But they're not particularly helpful in the realm of pastoral advice, especially towards something as intimate and fundamental as marriage.
[00:29:46]  Yeah.
[00:29:46]  Yeah.
[00:29:46]  Especially, again, especially since it's broadcast.
[00:29:49]  This is national, international.
[00:29:51]  If it's your church, then after the church, someone can come up and say, Well, what do you mean is too far right?
[00:29:56]  And then you can have that discussion.
[00:29:59]  But to do it in something where eventually you get the answer after the third or fourth blog post, when someone stops listening after the first, then it's just not good for.
[00:30:10]  Yeah, it's not good.
[00:30:11]  It's not at all unthinkable that there will be real marriages.
[00:30:14]  Like we know these guys and we talk to them, their pastor is not down with any of this.
[00:30:17]  So they're reading and they're getting into stuff and coming to different conclusions.
[00:30:21]  There are real marriages where the wife is going to catch wind of this, they're going to hear him mention something, and they're going to go to the pastor, and the pastor is going to come and take him to the woodshed and rhetoric and talk like this.
[00:30:31]  Is exactly what's going to create that situation.
[00:30:33]  And in extreme ones, the pastor could say, Get the kids, you're not safe.
[00:30:36]  He's talking about this.
[00:30:37]  He's one of those scary guys we've heard about on the internet.
[00:30:40]  Like, that's actual real people, marriages with children that really could have a wedge driven between them.
[00:30:45]  You need to go stay at the in laws.
[00:30:47]  And that's terrible to do.
[00:30:49]  If it's for something good and the man is an actual evil, wicked person, of course.
[00:30:53]  But over something as silly as all of these examples mentioned, that's awful.
[00:30:57]  That's awful.
[00:30:58]  The question then is, Oh, where'd you get that idea about seed oils?
[00:31:01]  Oh, I got it from this guy named Raw Egg Nationalist on Twitter.
[00:31:04]  The pastor's like, Oh, I've never heard of that thing.
[00:31:06]  I've never even heard of Twitter.
[00:31:07]  And then he goes on there and doesn't understand anything of what's going on.
[00:31:11]  And he finds out from a blog, you know, some Google search that Ren is actually a Nazi.
[00:31:16]  And wait, you're actually following Nazis on Twitter?
[00:31:19]  And it just goes down and down and down.
[00:31:21]  And yeah, it's just not good.
[00:31:24]  Most of your pastors don't understand the dynamics of the internet, particularly X or Twitter.
[00:31:29]  And so the moment that question arises, I wonder if this guy's down in nefarious stuff, they're not going to understand the world they're jumping into.
[00:31:37]  And in the end, it causes the problems that.
[00:31:39]  So, again, ambiguity is bad in this case.

=== Banking For Kingdom Growth (02:23) ===

[00:31:42]  Red dresses.
[00:31:44]  Maven, let's go ahead because I think they're related.
[00:31:46]  You ready to have a commercial break?
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=== Authority Versus Prudence (15:16) ===

[00:34:06]  So, this is a tweet from Pastor Tom Buck.
[00:34:08]  Just again to reiterate, we love the Wilsons, we love Moscow.
[00:34:11]  Doug has done a lot of good.
[00:34:12]  I've learned a lot from him.
[00:34:13]  I just thought this particular, I agreed with him in principle, but it wasn't the best biblical passage to illustrate the principle.
[00:34:21]  And then my big concern was that there was no tangible example or case study given for the principle.
[00:34:26]  And the ambiguous examples that were provided, I think not only were they unhelpful, but actually would be potentially dangerous.
[00:34:38]  My husband wants to eat less processed food.
[00:34:41]  Maybe I should talk to the elders.
[00:34:43]  He's a tyrant.
[00:34:45]  So, anyways, so we're shifting gears, but not really.
[00:34:48]  It's the same theme.
[00:34:49]  So, the theme of the show today, just like from the cold open, Is we're talking about patriarchy and trying to put some meat on the bones and give some tangible, practical advice here.
[00:35:00]  And we're doing it, starting the conversation in the negative, saying, here are some examples that we think are unhelpful.
[00:35:07]  And then we want to try to give some positive examples at the end of the show.
[00:35:11]  But we love the Wilsons and we love Pastor Tom Buck.
[00:35:15]  And because we love them, we thought, you know what?
[00:35:17]  We shouldn't just blame one guy.
[00:35:18]  We should let Wilson and Buck share blame together.
[00:35:23]  That's a very charitable thing of us to do.
[00:35:24]  So this is a tweet from Pastor Tom Buck.
[00:35:28]  So he did a poll.
[00:35:29]  It says if a husband tells his wife that he wants her to wear a red dress every day, is she to submit to his authority and obey?
[00:35:39]  40.5% said yes.
[00:35:41]  I was one of those, very proud.
[00:35:43]  And then 59.5% said no.
[00:35:47]  A total of over 7,000 votes in terms of views on this tweet.
[00:35:52]  300 and 300.
[00:35:55]  So almost 400,000 views, almost half a million.
[00:35:58]  So, this made the rounds.
[00:36:00]  And I would just say that, you know, to quote Tim Keller here, it's not what you say, it's what the language does.
[00:36:07]  And what the language does in this particular case is one of the things that it does, and I won't impute motives.
[00:36:14]  I don't know what Tom was thinking.
[00:36:15]  I have an idea, but I could be wrong.
[00:36:17]  But I think what it does, regardless of his intentions, is it just provides one more little chipping away at biblical patriarchy and male headship in the home by basically trying to.
[00:36:33]  Trying to attack the general principle of the husband actually has authority over the wife.
[00:36:41]  I mean, the Bible literally says, wives, submit to your husbands in everything.
[00:36:46]  Now you're just being a biblicist, Joel.
[00:36:47]  Yeah, that's a good point.
[00:36:48]  In everything.
[00:36:50]  And obviously, we've already established it at the outset of the show.
[00:36:54]  It just like whether it be a civil ruler or whether it be ecclesiastical, your pastor, whether it be in the household with your husband, any human authority.
[00:37:03]  We are not only free but obligated, morally obligated to resist that authority if the authority is commanding that which God forbids or forbidding that which God commands.
[00:37:13]  Okay.
[00:37:14]  So it is a real principle and it does have real application.
[00:37:18]  The problem, though, is does God forbid wearing red dresses?
[00:37:21]  Does God forbid even wearing red dresses every day?
[00:37:24]  Does God forbid seed oils or lack thereof?
[00:37:27]  Like that's it's the examples that are the problem.
[00:37:31]  If you're simply making the case that there are times in various spheres of life where you have to resist human authority because tyranny is a real category, and fine.
[00:37:41]  Okay.
[00:37:42]  I get it.
[00:37:42]  Like we did a lot of talks like that during COVID.
[00:37:45]  It needed to be said.
[00:37:47]  There was a time to resist human authorities because they're really acting like tyrants and they're forbidding.
[00:37:52]  They're not just doing something that's uncomfortable or inconvenient or goes against your preference, but they're actually forbidding something that God commands or commanding something God forbids.
[00:38:03]  And the former, forbidding that which God commands, for instance, would be during COVID, you can't go to church.
[00:38:09]  Well, God tells me to go to church.
[00:38:11]  And so that was a problem.
[00:38:12]  And so the doctrine of the lesser magistrate and civil disobedience and resistance was.
[00:38:18]  Something that really needed to be talked about.
[00:38:19]  But now it's being talked about in the category of the home.
[00:38:22]  And it would be one thing if we had an epidemic of toxic patriarchy.
[00:38:27]  Right.
[00:38:28]  And I'm not saying there are no examples.
[00:38:29]  I'm not saying there's no husband on planet Earth who hasn't gone too far.
[00:38:33]  I'm not saying that.
[00:38:34]  But I think what's so important is the headline must be the headline, the footnote must be the footnote.
[00:38:41]  And often what we do in evangelicalism is we make the footnote the headline and the headline the footnote.
[00:38:46]  We major on the minor and we minor on the major.
[00:38:49]  And what sometimes is accomplished by trying to provide exceptions to the rule, so the rule is wives submit to your husbands and everything.
[00:38:59]  There may be exceptions, but by pressing the exception, a lot of times what it ends up doing is it carves out excuses to actually obey the norm.
[00:39:10]  And in this particular example with Tom Buck, the exception he provides, I actually think from a biblical standpoint, is not a good exception.
[00:39:18]  If the example was, Is uh, do you have to obey your husband if he asks you every day not to pray or every day, um, to beat the children or every like, but in this case, or if it was dressed to wear something that is objectively immodest, yeah, exactly, to um, to wear um, spandex in public, you know, every single day, exactly.
[00:39:38]  But this is um, this is literally it's just not, it's there's no biblical law against red dresses, so it's strictly preference, and and and what this does, this little you know.
[00:39:52]  Experiment, poll on X is it just gets people thinking.
[00:39:57]  And according to the results, 59.5% of people, over 7,000 people, thinking there are times outside of biblical clear commands, simply in the realm of preference, where a woman can say to her husband, despite his authority, take a hike.
[00:40:12]  Yeah, I'm not a fan.
[00:40:13]  Okay.
[00:40:14]  There's two separate issues here there's authority and there's prudence.
[00:40:17]  So the question does the husband have the authority to command such a thing?
[00:40:22]  That's not necessarily saying, Is it prudent for a man to require that of his wife?
[00:40:26]  Because the wives say, even women of both genders, well, why would he ever do that?
[00:40:32]  Maybe it's not suitable for the climate, blah, blah, blah.
[00:40:35]  We're not asking, is it prudent?
[00:40:36]  Should it be done?
[00:40:38]  Yeah, we live in the North Pole.
[00:40:39]  But Mrs. Paul, we're in LA.
[00:40:42]  That's true.
[00:40:43]  We're in LA, there's gangs.
[00:40:44]  We're not talking about the prudence of it.
[00:40:46]  We're talking about, does the husband have that authority to command that?
[00:40:49]  To which the Bible, like if it doesn't actually mean that, if it doesn't literally, practically, on a Tuesday and a Wednesday and a Sunday, In the home to his wife, mean he can say, Do this, and it's not sin, and she does it.
[00:41:02]  What does it actually mean?
[00:41:03]  What is it actually good for, as you like to say?
[00:41:05]  Nothing.
[00:41:06]  If you truly won't validate, yes, that authority is actually legitimate, it has to be obeyed, it's God ordained.
[00:41:12]  Practically, it looks like this.
[00:41:13]  If you won't do that, then take the verse that says that, grab a sharpie, and scribble that out in your Bible because you have no intention of actually obeying it when push comes to shove, when the rubber meets the road.
[00:41:23]  You're right.
[00:41:23]  The phrasing of the question is key.
[00:41:25]  And the way you phrase it is helpful, but technically, that wasn't even the way that Tom, Pastor Buck, phrased it.
[00:41:31]  He didn't say, Does the husband have the authority?
[00:41:34]  The way he phrased it is, Should the wife obey or should the wife submit to his authority?
[00:41:38]  So if it was, Is it wise for a husband to give this command, to command his wife to wear a red dress every day?
[00:41:45]  Then I would probably say no.
[00:41:47]  Or is it prudent?
[00:41:48]  So, should the husband exercise this command?
[00:41:52]  That's a different question.
[00:41:53]  But that's not the question that was asked.
[00:41:55]  The question that was asked is should a wife obey the command?
[00:41:59]  So, in this case, we're saying the command, prudent or not, has already been issued.
[00:42:05]  And now we're debating should a wife submit?
[00:42:10]  That's unhelpful.
[00:42:12]  Do you have any thoughts, Michael or Stephen?
[00:42:14]  Yeah, I'd just say that whenever you talk about authority, especially when you're talking about Disobeying some sort of order of that authority is the subordinate person.
[00:42:26]  Should there should be a you should re emphasize the idea of a type of deference?
[00:42:32]  So, someone's over this.
[00:42:34]  I think this is true for civil authority, it's true for authority in the family.
[00:42:39]  The first impulse should be obedience, it the first impulse should be deference to them as the head of that the state or the head of the family.
[00:42:50]  And so, that should be that should always be emphasized when you're talking about civil.
[00:42:54]  Some kind of disobedience, which I didn't see any of them do.
[00:43:00]  The other thing is that, what was I going to say?
[00:43:05]  We've talked too long.
[00:43:06]  I keep forgetting everything.
[00:43:08]  Anyway, come back to me.
[00:43:09]  I'll think of it in a moment.
[00:43:10]  I was going to say it's a similar principle.
[00:43:13]  I saw someone mention the civil magistrate, and something I learned from Stephen's book is the command to honor and submit to the civil magistrate is quite high biblically.
[00:43:24]  Like it's for the sake of your conscience.
[00:43:27]  And so when we pray for the civil magistrate, we pray every Sunday for the civil magistrate.
[00:43:31]  Often we pray something like, Lord, help us to obey faithfully in every area that we can, so that if it comes that we have to disobey, it will be obvious that it's because of the principle that we obey God rather than men, than just that we're disgruntled conservatives who are, you know, angry at the government.
[00:43:47]  Right.
[00:43:47]  Yeah.
[00:43:48]  So what I was going to say is whenever, like, if you're reading, like, complex ethics or anything that involves, Like you go to the extreme cases to narrow down the principle, like so that it makes sense that you'd go to a case where it's kind of unclear on the surface, prima facie, you're unsure, and then that forces a guy to rethink his principles.
[00:44:10]  It's like you know, the Kantian ethics you never lie, well, therefore, you don't, you know, the Jews in the basement or whatever, you can't lie to the Nazi.
[00:44:16]  Like that's a classic example of trying to go to an extreme case that would seem to violate intuition about the principle.
[00:44:23]  But if you do it on Twitter, that's not exactly the environment in which you are trying to narrow down your principle, it's not the Socratic method there.
[00:44:31]  Yeah, right.
[00:44:32]  It's also a very high context environment.
[00:44:34]  And so this didn't come out of nowhere.
[00:44:36]  Like, you have to understand each tweet, usually in context of all these other tweets.
[00:44:40]  And so I think, Joel, you said it.
[00:44:41]  I think what the effect of this does, like, it is true that what it does, not only what it says, like, that's true because of Twitter's high context environment.
[00:44:49]  What it does is it actually chips away at someone's principle.
[00:44:52]  Now they start to have to question the idea of authority.
[00:44:57]  And it actually undermines the authority in effect by doing this sort of, uh, You know, extreme case type work.
[00:45:05]  And so, in that way, it's just not good unless you should provide, like, you should give more than that.
[00:45:12]  It's not good.
[00:45:13]  So, the sort of person who would do this would be like a feminist who, if that feminist is smart, would say, I'm going to give this extreme case, knowing that it's Twitter, in order to undermine male headship in the family.
[00:45:30]  That would make sense.
[00:45:31]  But someone doing it like Tom Buck, who affirms, you know, whatever, probably complementarianism, It's either he doesn't know what he's doing or he does know what he's doing and he's actually undermining the principle in either case.
[00:45:44]  I fear the latter.
[00:45:46]  I'll give charity and assume the former, but I fear the latter.
[00:45:50]  Michael, were you going to say something or Wes?
[00:45:52]  I've got something else, but go ahead.
[00:45:53]  I was going to say in the military, if you take a squad and you have a squad leader that's over several fire teams, the line between a functional and dysfunctional squad wouldn't necessarily be the quality of the squad leader, but it would be the teams, how well they obey him.
[00:46:07]  If you had fire teams that would not obey the squad leader or they would quibble and argue and refuse to defer to him in all except extreme cases, you would have a team that could not do anything.
[00:46:17]  Now, if you take a squad leader, and maybe he is not the perfect squad leader, he gets it right 75% of the time, 25% of the time he's off, but he has a team that will obey him that he can count on.
[00:46:27]  You've gone from dysfunctional, can't do anything, can't maneuver, can't move, can't suppress fire to a team.
[00:46:32]  You can work with that.
[00:46:33]  But if you take the husband and then you put in his home disharmony, you inject and say, Wife, you should be thinking, do I obey this or not?
[00:46:40]  You've gone from functional, and we could work on this.
[00:46:42]  Hey, that wasn't the most prudent advice that you gave her to a home that has no harmony, that has no function, where his words and his edicts constantly disobeyed.
[00:46:51]  So, military is not a perfect corollary to the family, but it is one where the authority structure is absolutely laid bare.
[00:46:57]  I mean, it's numbers, it's ranks.
[00:46:59]  This is who says who, this is who needs to be obeyed.
[00:47:01]  And if it didn't function like that, if the lower ranks just disobeyed, I mean, they would literally lose their job, they would get discharged.
[00:47:09]  That's how important that is.
[00:47:11]  So, take it to the home that leader has to be obeyed.
[00:47:14]  Except in those extreme cases, which literally in a marriage, there are people in their whole marriage, the husband will never truly order the wife to sin.
[00:47:21]  Like we're literally talking about in a whole town, maybe five Christian husbands in a year, truly give an order that's actually sin.
[00:47:30]  Right.
[00:47:30]  Yeah.
[00:47:31]  On that too, I guess it's on topic, maybe not directly to that tweet, but it is a good point within the military structure that authority, when you have subordinates, usually the way you exercise that authority is to give leeway to the.
[00:47:45]  Like, if you have a team leader, you know, you have two team leaders in a fire and a rifle infantry squad, and your orders would be broad enough such that they can make their own decisions autonomously.
[00:47:56]  And so, I think just as husbands, women have their place in the home and in that sphere.
[00:48:03]  And so, instead of sometimes there's the direct, like, you must do this, but there's also that broad command of this is the end state.
[00:48:12]  These are some of the things I need to have done, but now go and do it right.
[00:48:16]  So, just as a, yeah.
[00:48:18]  So, probably a better, instead of saying wear the red dresses or only what, it would be something like, you know, wear the dresses.
[00:48:28]  And then they get to choose.
[00:48:29]  She's called in scripture the despot, the ruler of the home.
[00:48:31]  Like that actually means something.
[00:48:33]  Yeah.
[00:48:33]  Under the headship of the husband, but still with authority.
[00:48:35]  It's like owner and manager.
[00:48:37]  Michael, was there anything that you wanted to say?
[00:48:39]  Go ahead.
[00:48:39]  Okay.
[00:48:40]  So, one of the things that I previously said, I immediately responded to it on X.
[00:48:44]  And for whatever reason, I see people do videos that are like 10 minutes long all the time.
[00:48:49]  And I suck with technology and I can't figure it out.
[00:48:52]  So, X only lets me do two minute and 20 second videos if I just record one on my phone and upload it.
[00:48:58]  But you know what?
[00:48:59]  In God's providence, it's probably a really good discipline.
[00:49:01]  And so I did two videos one responding to the Abigail Moscow situation, and one responding to the red dress fiasco.
[00:49:09]  And on the red dress one, I had to boil it down to two minutes and 20 seconds.
[00:49:13]  We'll see if I can do it today.
[00:49:14]  But I said something along these lines I said, One of the aspects of authority, the husband is to love his wife as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for him.

=== Jesus Demands Modesty (03:29) ===

[00:49:23]  So a sacrificial love, protection, and provision.
[00:49:26]  And one example, even though it's outside of the household, this would be a civil ruler, but one example of a tyrannical authority.
[00:49:32]  I think of Pharaoh, who had a demand but did not supply the resources for the demand.
[00:49:38]  So, Jesus, you know, he loves the bride, but he also is the head of the church, which is his body, and he gives her commands.
[00:49:45]  But the beauty of Jesus is he also provides all the necessary resources, the means for obedience.
[00:49:51]  Jesus doesn't command us to do things without being able to obey.
[00:49:55]  Jesus is the opposite of a tyrant, like, such as Pharaoh would be a good biblical example.
[00:50:01]  So, he gives a command.
[00:50:02]  But decides no longer to provide the resources, the means for obeying the command.
[00:50:07]  The quintessential example would be when Pharaoh says, I demand bricks, but without straw.
[00:50:13]  Well, Jesus doesn't do that.
[00:50:14]  He makes demands on his bride, but he lavishly provides for her out of his own richness and in her sanctification, with virtue, with character, with physical provision, just as he feeds the birds of the air and clothes the lilies of the field.
[00:50:28]  All these ways, Jesus makes demands on his bride, but he provides the resources for her to obey.
[00:50:34]  Well, a good husband, if we are called in Ephesians 5 to follow the example of Christ that he sets the example for us, back to the red dress example, what if a husband, right?
[00:50:46]  Because the way that the question is being posed is basically if you answer no, you're saying there's never a scenario.
[00:50:51]  It's never, she should never obey.
[00:50:53]  And I'm thinking, wait a second, hold up.
[00:50:56]  Aside from just simply the biblical principle of wives submit to your husbands and everything, let's just get a little bit hypothetical, just for fun, just for a moment.
[00:51:05]  What if a husband says to his bride, Sweetheart, from the day I met you, you have always looked gorgeous in red.
[00:51:13]  The way that it accents your lips, it just is beautiful.
[00:51:18]  And, you know, the first time that I met you, you were actually wearing a red dress and it brings back sentiment and memory and fondness.
[00:51:24]  And we also have three little girls in the house.
[00:51:27]  And there's something about dresses, even if they're not red, red's just my preference.
[00:51:31]  I love it.
[00:51:31]  It just makes me fall in love with you all over again.
[00:51:33]  But dresses, regardless of the color, they display modesty.
[00:51:40]  But a modesty that's not frumpy, a modesty that still also portrays beauty, femininity, elegance.
[00:51:46]  And we've got these young, oppressional daughters, and everywhere they go, they see women with, you know, denim and jeans painted on, you know, and spandex and yoga pants painted on, women, you know, wearing three piece pantsuits, you know.
[00:51:59]  It's either immodest or it's masculine.
[00:52:02]  There's so few examples.
[00:52:04]  Our girls are bombarded by example after example after example of women in the culture and sadly even in the church often.
[00:52:13]  Where it's not modesty, it's not femininity, it's not elegance, it's not beauty.
[00:52:18]  And you, as a chief feminine example in our home, as a mother, I just think for a season, it would be so wonderful for me, for the intimacy of our marriage, for my own personal preference and the way that I love you and find you to be so beautiful.
[00:52:33]  And as a godly example of femininity and beauty and elegance for our daughters in the home, would you be willing to wear a red dress every day for the next three months?
[00:52:43]  And here's, you know, not bricks with no straw, but rather like Jesus gives the command, but also resources the bride to obey.
[00:52:49]  And you get to go shopping, sweetheart.
[00:52:51]  I worked hard.

=== Redefining Female Beauty (11:13) ===

[00:52:52]  I just got a bonus at work.
[00:52:54]  And you get to pick out the dresses.
[00:52:56]  They need to be dresses and they need to be red.
[00:52:59]  But I want you to go and buy yourself 21 new red dresses of your choice and then put them on a three week rotation for the next three months.
[00:53:11]  Is that sin?
[00:53:12]  And I would say, Pastor Tom Buck, with all due respect, no.
[00:53:17]  So get your stupid question out of my Twitter thread.
[00:53:22]  I don't think it's helpful for the body of Christ.
[00:53:25]  Okay, let's go to our last commercial break of the day.
[00:53:27]  We'll come back, say a few more words, and we'll land the plane.
[00:53:30]  Take some questions if you have.
[00:53:31]  Yeah, we'll take questions.
[00:53:32]  Give us some questions.
[00:53:33]  All right, that's it, guys.
[00:53:34]  I tried to warn you the time has finally arrived.
[00:53:37]  Our early bird pricing is gone.
[00:53:40]  But don't despair.
[00:53:41]  We've gone above and beyond to make this conference affordable to all.
[00:53:45]  So even now, it's only $170 for an adult.
[00:53:49]  It's cheap for teenagers and free for kids.
[00:53:52]  What am I talking about?
[00:53:53]  Well, I'm talking about the Christ is King Conference, How to Defeat Trash World.
[00:53:57]  It's happening April 3rd, 4th, and 5th, the year of our Lord 2025.
[00:54:02]  That's a Thursday.
[00:54:03]  Friday, Saturday, three full days, jam packed with eight main sessions, three panels, and an extraordinarily based lineup of speakers.
[00:54:12]  We've got Steve Dace, Orrin McIntyre, Andrew Isker, David Reese, Stephen Wolf, Eric Kahn, John Harris, A.D. Robles, Dan Burkholder, Ben Garrett, Dusty Deavers, the Christian Prince himself, and yours truly, Joel Weber.
[00:54:28]  Sign up today, don't miss this conference, and I'll give you a little bit of a secret here.
[00:54:34]  There's a couple more potential speakers in the wings.
[00:54:37]  Haven't completely confirmed yet, so I cannot disclose, but I'll say this if it happens, it's going to blow your mind.
[00:54:44]  So register at rightresponseconference.com.
[00:54:47]  Again, that's rightresponseconference.com.
[00:54:49]  Register today.
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[00:55:39]  Again, that's squirrelyjoes.com forward slash right response.
[00:55:44]  To claim your first free bag of coffee today, visit thewordsoap.com today.
[00:55:50]  Again, that's thewordsoap.com.
[00:55:53]  Everyone needs soap, so wash yourself in the Word.
[00:56:01]  All right, we're back.
[00:56:02]  This is what we want to do.
[00:56:02]  We want to take questions from the chat.
[00:56:05]  So if you write something in the chat and you put a question mark at the end, then Nathan's going to go ahead and separate those and put them in a separate column, and we'll start going one by one through them as many as we can.
[00:56:19]  And as you're formulating your question, real quick, one more time, I want to reiterate as an announcement Patreon, I forgot to give the link.
[00:56:27]  So, patreon.com forward slash right response ministries.
[00:56:31]  Patreon.com forward slash right response ministries.
[00:56:34]  And there's two things.
[00:56:35]  So, one, right now, you'll be able to watch the full nine part series ad free with Andrew Isker and myself on Israel and the Jews and how Christians should be thinking about these things.
[00:56:46]  So, that's ad free, all nine episodes available right now.
[00:56:50]  A lot of people.
[00:56:52]  We got like a few, I think a couple thousand new Patreon members.
[00:56:56]  And a lot of people have been talking about it and said it's blessed them.
[00:56:58]  I've gotten lots of emails.
[00:57:01]  People saying, like, one, it opened my eyes, it red pilled me.
[00:57:03]  And then other people on the other side of the aisle saying it kind of actually brought me back from being on the edge to a more reasonable position that's biblically rooted and doesn't go too far.
[00:57:13]  So check that out patreon.com forward slash right response ministries.
[00:57:17]  If you sign up today for even just the lowest tier, five bucks a month, the silver tier, you'll be able to start watching right now the season on Israel with me and Pastor Iskar.
[00:57:27]  And then you'll also be ready to go because it's not that long from now, in just four short weeks.
[00:57:32]  We're going to start dropping weekly behind exclusively for our Patreon members the 10 part series with me and Dr. Stephen Wolf.
[00:57:41]  And so you'll get full access to the nine part series with Isker now.
[00:57:46]  You'll be ready to go four weeks from now when we start the series with Stephen Wolf.
[00:57:51]  And that's going to be really great.
[00:57:52]  And then the last thing I want to say is our little advertisement for the conference actually reminded me.
[00:57:58]  To go ahead and mention this, we have said, hey, we've got a mystery speaker, Pastor Jeff Durbin, who we love.
[00:58:04]  He dropped, and he never even gave a reason.
[00:58:07]  He did give a reason.
[00:58:08]  The reason is sitting two feet to my left.
[00:58:11]  He said he didn't want to do it.
[00:58:14]  Four feet to my left, Michael.
[00:58:17]  So, anyway, so Pastor Jeff Durbin, who we love, he's not going to come to the conference.
[00:58:23]  That's a shame.
[00:58:23]  I wish he would come, and I wish we could hash it out and whatever.
[00:58:26]  But Stephen is going to be doing a debate.
[00:58:31]  With David Reese, Pastor David Reese, I think that's going to be awesome.
[00:58:34]  And it's going to be a formal debate, not just informal.
[00:58:36]  I'm probably even not going to moderate.
[00:58:38]  I was talking about the whole thing.
[00:58:38]  It's on red dresses, right?
[00:58:40]  It's on red dresses.
[00:58:41]  No, it's going to be on theonomy versus natural law.
[00:58:43]  The way we're going to frame it is we're going to, you know, I teased Stephen about this yesterday.
[00:58:48]  I said, this is how I'm going to frame it.
[00:58:49]  I'm going to put David on the defensive.
[00:58:52]  He's going to be for, you're going to be against.
[00:58:53]  And it's going to be David defending the sufficiency of scripture and Stephen Wolf attacking.
[00:58:59]  No, so we're not going to do that.
[00:59:00]  We're not going to, the Bible is enough and Stephen saying, no, it's not.
[00:59:03]  No, we're not going to do that.
[00:59:04]  We're going to frame it.
[00:59:05]  Instead, we're going to frame it, Stephen on the defensive, for being a defense of natural law.
[00:59:11]  Something like that.
[00:59:12]  And then David being on the against.
[00:59:15]  And I talked to Nathan yesterday.
[00:59:17]  You don't even know this, but you're about to find out live.
[00:59:19]  I'm probably going to have you moderate.
[00:59:21]  Okay.
[00:59:22]  So that I won't screw it up.
[00:59:28]  Because if I moderate the debate, I might just go ahead and join the debate.
[00:59:32]  And I don't want to, which would actually be kind of funny because I'd find myself probably on both sides.
[00:59:38]  People would love it, but no, it's not fair to Stephen.
[00:59:40]  It's not fair to David.
[00:59:42]  So, we don't want to do an informal discussion where we disagree.
[00:59:46]  We actually want to do a formal debate, not because we want to be hostile, it would be charitable, but because we want it to be clear.
[00:59:52]  And by having allotted times and all that kind of stuff, then Stephen will get to say everything he needs to say.
[00:59:57]  David will get to say everything he needs to say.
[00:59:59]  And so, that's going to happen.
[01:00:01]  But all that back to Jeff Durbin.
[01:00:03]  Jeff Durbin went ahead and dropped the conference.
[01:00:05]  Blessings on Apologia.
[01:00:06]  No hard feelings.
[01:00:08]  But we have been announcing for a few weeks now that we're going to have a mystery guest.
[01:00:11]  Who is it going to be?
[01:00:13]  And the announcement, the surprise is here's the big unveiling.
[01:00:19]  It's me twice.
[01:00:20]  No, I'm just kidding.
[01:00:21]  No, it's not.
[01:00:23]  No, so I can't tell you who it is, but we actually have settled on someone.
[01:00:27]  And it's actually, I think it's going to blow your mind.
[01:00:30]  It's actually someone who's very well known and who I like and has some great stuff to say.
[01:00:38]  And we've been forming a little bit of a friendship offline very recently.
[01:00:43]  And he just told me today that he's willing to come.
[01:00:46]  But I want to wait and get a contract signed just in case before announcing and then having to say two weeks later.
[01:00:54]  And another guy dropped our conference.
[01:00:55]  So we will be unveiling, but we have made a decision and we'll be unveiling, Lord willing, in the next couple of weeks.
[01:01:02]  And I think all of you guys will be not only happy, but I think some of you will be, let's just say, pleasantly surprised.
[01:01:10]  I think you'll be like, whoa, that's awesome.
[01:01:13]  So we're very excited about that.
[01:01:14]  Go to writeresponse.com.
[01:01:16]  Conference.
[01:01:17]  So sign up for the Patreon, patreon.com forward slash right response ministries.
[01:01:21]  Isker now, Wolf coming in a month.
[01:01:23]  And then also register for the conference.
[01:01:25]  Do instead of right response ministries, it's right response conference.com.
[01:01:30]  Right response conference.com.
[01:01:33]  Again, that's going to be a full day Thursday, Friday, and Saturday, 2025, April 3rd through 5th.
[01:01:40]  So April 3rd through 5th, 2025, Thursday, Friday, and Saturday.
[01:01:45]  We've got John Harris, we've got Andrew Isker, we've got who do we have?
[01:01:48]  Oran McIntyre, Steve Dace.
[01:01:50]  David Reese, Stephen Wolf, you guys, me, and Brian Sylvain and Eric Kahn and all the Ogden boys, and a mystery guest that we've decided we'll unveil soon.
[01:02:00]  Super excited about that.
[01:02:02]  Last thing, Nate, do we have any kind of?
[01:02:05]  I'm feeling, you know, it's Christmas.
[01:02:07]  I'm feeling generous.
[01:02:09]  Do we have any kind of promo code that I can give to our listeners that they can use to get a discount?
[01:02:17]  All right.
[01:02:18]  Give Nathan one second.
[01:02:20]  Dun, He's coming up with the promo right now.
[01:02:25]  How much percent off?
[01:02:26]  What do we want to make it?
[01:02:28]  20%?
[01:02:32]  Sure.
[01:02:32]  20% off.
[01:02:34]  Man.
[01:02:34]  You guys don't know how excited Nate is.
[01:02:35]  Special deal only for you.
[01:02:40]  We probably will limit it, though, in time.
[01:02:41]  I think just for the next 24 hours.
[01:02:43]  So if people are watching the video later, tough.
[01:02:46]  You should be neglecting your children and watching when I live straight.
[01:02:50]  At the dinner table, 5 p.m.
[01:02:54]  Okay, so it's going to be all caps and the word is.
[01:02:58]  Natural law.
[01:02:59]  No, red dresses.
[01:03:03]  All one word, all caps, red dresses.
[01:03:06]  One word, all caps, red dresses for 20% off and just for the next 24 hours.
[01:03:11]  We'll take down the promo code.
[01:03:12]  It'll be over by tomorrow night.
[01:03:15]  But for the rest of the day and during the daytime tomorrow, go to rightresponseconference.com in the promo code slot, type in red dresses as one word, all caps, get 20% off.
[01:03:26]  Okay, questions?
[01:03:27]  What do we got?
[01:03:28]  Sorry, not questions.
[01:03:28]  We have two super chats that we should at least.
[01:03:30]  Oh, yeah, yeah.
[01:03:31]  Let's give them a shout out.
[01:03:32]  What are they?
[01:03:34]  I only see that we have two.
[01:03:35]  Nate, find them real quick for us.
[01:03:37]  What do we got?
[01:03:38]  $2 and $5.
[01:03:39]  No, sorry, guys.
[01:03:40]  Got to be more money than that.
[01:03:43]  So, super chat.
[01:03:45]  The first one is from LionOfTheNorth96 said, excited for Steven's Friday special season.
[01:03:52]  Me too.
[01:03:53]  If he ever starts a Patreon or the like, he needs to call joining the wolf pad.
[01:04:01]  That's great.
[01:04:02]  Or Lone Wolf.
[01:04:02]  I love it.
[01:04:03]  That would work.
[01:04:04]  Yep, that's good.

=== Liberal Theology Meets Politics (03:18) ===

[01:04:05]  Nah, it needs to be Wolfpack.
[01:04:05]  You're right.
[01:04:06]  Lion of the North, 96.
[01:04:08]  That's my family, though.
[01:04:09]  I guess I could have an extended family.
[01:04:11]  It can be.
[01:04:11]  Everyone's your family.
[01:04:12]  Everyone's your Patreon family.
[01:04:14]  If there's anything that I've learned, natural family doesn't mean anything.
[01:04:18]  That's right.
[01:04:20]  The random Anon on Twitter is just as close to you as your own wife and children, as long as they profess Christ.
[01:04:25]  And then the other super chat is Michael.
[01:04:28]  Michael says, When did.
[01:04:31]  Nope, I'm not going to read it.
[01:04:32]  I'm sorry, Michael.
[01:04:32]  I love you.
[01:04:33]  I love you.
[01:04:35]  And I understand the sentiment.
[01:04:36]  I understand the concern.
[01:04:37]  Michael, I'm sure you're listening.
[01:04:39]  I don't think it's that far.
[01:04:40]  I don't think that's fair.
[01:04:42]  But I think you are right in a general sense that it does, it's unnecessary.
[01:04:48]  And it does feel like a little bit of a retraction, a little bit of a shift to the left.
[01:04:54]  Hopefully, it's not.
[01:04:55]  And I think in the meantime, what we can do is we can do our best to exactly what we're trying to model today.
[01:05:01]  You don't just toe the party line.
[01:05:02]  So offer a disagreement where necessary, do it respectfully.
[01:05:08]  And also, one of the things you can do is you can talk, but for every minute you spend talking, you could also spend two minutes praying.
[01:05:16]  Uh, God shapes the heart of a king, guides it like water, whatever direction He wants it to go.
[01:05:20]  Um, so pray for our brothers in Christ.
[01:05:22]  Okay, questions.
[01:05:24]  This one from Truddle Question thoughts on egalitarian streak in contexts where it's not quite the same sign of liberalism like in the mainline churches?
[01:05:34]  AG, I think, standing for Assemblies of God, for instance, is otherwise solid socially, like the mainstreams aren't, or the mainlines aren't.
[01:05:42]  So, mainline churches that would be socially and culturally liberal, transgenderism, LGBTQ.
[01:05:48]  You'd have assemblies of God, and as I understand it, they would ordain pastors, but pretty much women as pastors.
[01:05:53]  But it pretty much stops there.
[01:05:54]  So none of the gender nonsense.
[01:05:56]  Nazarene would be similar.
[01:05:58]  Nazarene like that.
[01:05:59]  So where does kind of egalitarianism fit in there when it doesn't necessarily accompany liberalism?
[01:06:04]  Is it gender egalitarianism?
[01:06:06]  Yeah.
[01:06:06]  Okay.
[01:06:10]  I'd say, I mean, I don't know much about these AG, but I would say that the.
[01:06:16]  I just think charismatics.
[01:06:18]  Whereas, yeah, but I would just say, like, broadly, yeah, I mean, you guys can talk about that, but I'd just say, broadly speaking, the a lot of the a lot of people learned from the mainline that they once they went like going theologically liberal coincided with them going politically liberal.
[01:06:33]  Whereas, I think a lot of conservative people nowadays realize, and we saw this over the last 10 15 years, which is that you can maintain your theological orthodoxy and soteriology, doctrine of God, you know, ecclesiology, and I have and and all that, you can you can maintain the confession while you're.
[01:06:51]  Your politics actually be just is liberal, right?
[01:06:54]  So, um, that and you see that, that's like classic.
[01:06:58]  Um, I'd say it's like Tim Keller, that would be true for Gospel Coalition, Russell Moore, all those guys.
[01:07:04]  So, you can check off all the boxes theologically, but you put it politically, you're sliding to the left.
[01:07:09]  You can even do it, as I said the other week, as a theonomist, Joel McDermott would be an example, yeah.
[01:07:15]  Um, okay, uh, next one, Michael.
[01:07:17]  Can you read the next one?
[01:07:18]  I'm coming back.
[01:07:19]  This is from Adam Rassett.
[01:07:20]  Question I'm coming back from a deployment overseas, and God has provided.

=== Making America Christian Again (06:29) ===

[01:07:24]  A hard reset in my life and a desire to find a Christian burrow.
[01:07:28]  What should I do to find one?
[01:07:30]  So, first thing I would say is there are plenty of Christian burrows that we've never heard of and never will.
[01:07:36]  It's not like guys with podcasts are the only ones who are faithful.
[01:07:39]  Sometimes the guys with podcasts, including myself, might actually be failing to be faithful in certain arenas.
[01:07:47]  However, it is difficult, I think, to find a Christian burrow because here's the thing it takes time.
[01:07:55]  It's like you can't just visit a church on Sunday.
[01:07:58]  And know everything that's going on and find out about whether or not they have a classical school and what that looks like, and find out whether or not the wives are good at making sourdough, and find out all the things that come with Christian Burroughs and how active they are in politics.
[01:08:12]  And it takes time.
[01:08:14]  And so, one of the things that is helpful with the guys who are podcasting, and it's not to give them preference, but it's just to say for the sake of thoroughness of knowledge and being able to vet beforehand preemptively.
[01:08:29]  Yeah, if a guy has a podcast, and you could do some of this with even just sermons, even if you don't have a podcast, but listening to their sermons online, that's what I feel like that's the only thing I can really recommend go and visit in person, spend a weekend somewhere.
[01:08:44]  But obviously, you can't do that.
[01:08:45]  You can't do 20 trips.
[01:08:46]  You probably don't have the time or funds for that.
[01:08:49]  And a weekend, you can figure out some things, but there's still a lot that you can't figure out in a weekend.
[01:08:54]  So, what you're going to have to do is you're going to have to listen.
[01:08:58]  And so, finding guys, And listening to their sermons, or if they have a podcast, listening to their podcast, and you can digest 20 episodes of something over the course of a couple weeks.
[01:09:10]  And then you have a really thorough idea of what they're all about beyond just their church polity or their statement of faith, but in terms of what is the ethos, what's the culture, what's the vision, what's their goals and their ambition.
[01:09:26]  And so, anyways, this isn't to say there aren't faithful guys that I don't know about, but the guys that I do know about that I would vouch for is.
[01:09:33]  Ogden is fantastic.
[01:09:35]  So if you can, move to Ogden.
[01:09:37]  It's beautiful.
[01:09:38]  It's pretty.
[01:09:40]  All four seasons.
[01:09:43]  Utah is generally conservative as a state.
[01:09:47]  Chalk that up to the Mormons.
[01:09:49]  God bless them.
[01:09:50]  I will say, over the summer in Ogden, I saw more pride flags outside of home.
[01:09:54]  That's true.
[01:09:55]  It was surprisingly bad.
[01:09:56]  Well, so there's the dynamic.
[01:09:58]  It's Mormon land, but it's also mountains.
[01:10:01]  And every pretty place, right?
[01:10:02]  It's an undefeatable law.
[01:10:04]  Every geographically pretty place with nice weather.
[01:10:07]  Must be sodomite friendly.
[01:10:10]  What's the name of the organization or network that John Harris talks about occasionally?
[01:10:15]  No, no, no.
[01:10:16]  He's got like a church finding network.
[01:10:19]  I forget.
[01:10:19]  I don't know.
[01:10:20]  That would be a great resource.
[01:10:21]  Too bad we don't know what it is.
[01:10:22]  But yeah.
[01:10:23]  So Ogden is a great one.
[01:10:24]  I would also say, obviously, I mean, you can, you know, the AMREF guys and some of their projects.
[01:10:31]  Ridge Runner.
[01:10:31]  Yeah, Ridge Runner Project.
[01:10:33]  Yeah, check that out because you've got, you're going to have like not just one pastor, but you're going to have like a.
[01:10:39]  Right.
[01:10:39]  What we call an all star cap.
[01:10:41]  You know, like you're going to have CJ Angle and Andrew Isk.
[01:10:43]  I mean, it's going to be Josh Abatoy.
[01:10:45]  Go ahead.
[01:10:46]  Well, I was, so I don't know.
[01:10:47]  He says deployment.
[01:10:48]  If he's active duty, he's not moving anywhere.
[01:10:50]  He has to go wherever they send him or whatever.
[01:10:53]  I thought he was saying he was about to get out.
[01:10:54]  Yeah, a hard reset, like reset, would mean you're redeployed.
[01:10:58]  You come back and you reset.
[01:10:59]  So I don't know if he means National Guard or because in that case he could move.
[01:11:04]  I would just say, I don't know the situation, but like we talked about this in one of the videos, is find a group of guys.
[01:11:11]  Locally, that you can get together twice a month or once a month at a cigar lounge or at a bar or whatever.
[01:11:18]  I do it twice a month and we read through or we talk about an American Reformer article.
[01:11:23]  We're like minded guys.
[01:11:25]  So, if you can't find an actual borough itself to move to, like Ogden and these other places or Ridge Runner places, find somehow that local group of guys who are like minded where you can get together and have a little mini, you know, borough for two hours.
[01:11:40]  And I think that'd be good for someone.
[01:11:43]  Do it wisely because you're in the military.
[01:11:45]  But anyway, if that's the case, you're active duty, then do that at whatever post you're at.
[01:11:50]  That's good.
[01:11:51]  Truth script, church finder.
[01:11:52]  Yeah.
[01:11:53]  Nathan just showed that.
[01:11:54]  Somebody in the chat put it.
[01:11:55]  Thank you.
[01:11:56]  So if you want Harris's list of vetted churches, truth script, church finder.
[01:12:03]  There's two super chats.
[01:12:04]  Maybe we get to just in case we don't get through the whole list.
[01:12:07]  This is the first one from Jeff Hafley.
[01:12:10]  What were some great moments in American history where the conservative slash reform side won or lost a key battle?
[01:12:16]  Example of J. Gresham Machen and the OPC.
[01:12:23]  Well, lost a key battle would be the, I forget the name, but they're people like Charles Hodge and his son.
[01:12:30]  A. A. Hodge?
[01:12:32]  Yeah, A. Hodge.
[01:12:33]  They were a part of a movement around the time of Lincoln in the 1850s and 60s.
[01:12:37]  I don't know the exact time frame.
[01:12:38]  This would be a loss.
[01:12:40]  So it was actually among the reformed who wanted to revise the preamble to the Constitution to recognize.
[01:12:46]  Christ.
[01:12:48]  And apparently Lincoln was actually open to it, but then he was killed.
[01:12:52]  So that was a loss, but that was actually led by reformed ministers in a reformed organization.
[01:12:59]  So, you know, maybe there's a history of trying to make America a Christian nation.
[01:13:03]  Well, no, there was a history.
[01:13:05]  There was a history of saying we are a Christian nation.
[01:13:08]  Why is it not in our constitution?
[01:13:11]  And that's still our mission goal today.
[01:13:14]  So cool.
[01:13:15]  Interesting.
[01:13:16]  Go ahead and read the next one.
[01:13:17]  All right.
[01:13:18]  This is from Josh Pulver.
[01:13:19]  When will the condensed version of Wolf's book be released?
[01:13:23]  I read like a snail.
[01:13:25]  Yeah, I write like a snail.
[01:13:27]  I don't know the exact time frame on it.
[01:13:30]  It'll be next year.
[01:13:31]  We'll just put it that way because I really don't know.
[01:13:34]  Sometime next year.
[01:13:35]  Yeah, sometime next year.
[01:13:36]  I'll try to get it done as soon as I can and all that stuff.
[01:13:39]  Great.
[01:13:41]  Go back up to the top, Nate.
[01:13:42]  Let's now go prioritize order.
[01:13:45]  Sacred Penguin, is that where we're at?
[01:13:47]  Yeah.
[01:13:48]  Scared Penguin.

=== Leading A Sacred Family (10:53) ===

[01:13:54]  That sounds like neo Calvinist.
[01:13:55]  Everything, there's no sacred.
[01:13:57]  Anyway, right.
[01:13:57]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:13:58]  Everything's sacred.
[01:13:59]  Everything's sacred.
[01:14:00]  Will you consider a part two to the Jew Israel series cover best ways to effectively witness to them?
[01:14:08]  That's a great idea.
[01:14:10]  I don't know if we could get a part two series, but what Andrew and I could do, because we have talked about that and it's important.
[01:14:18]  You know, Andrew and I have both said we hate Talmudic Judaism, but we love Jews and wish them a very Pleasant conversion to Christianity.
[01:14:24]  So, I don't think we can do a whole series, Scared Penguin, but I do think that we could, what we could do is like a bonus episode, like just a full episode on evangelizing Jews.
[01:14:37]  And that's a great idea.
[01:14:39]  Yep.
[01:14:40]  All right.
[01:14:42]  What's the best way to communicate these truths to our more feminist brothers and sisters?
[01:14:46]  So, keyword there being brothers and sisters, I suppose.
[01:14:48]  So, dealing with a Christian audience.
[01:14:51]  I'll mention just one thing here.
[01:14:53]  I mentioned to someone recently, specifically in the context of this red dress.
[01:14:57]  Controversy and he was talking about well, now his wife's a little bit upset with him because he said, Well, yes, that is what the verse says.
[01:15:04]  And now I said, That's great.
[01:15:07]  I love seeing reformed pastors, just a heartwarming example of them sowing marital discord.
[01:15:13]  Husband and wife now upset at each other.
[01:15:14]  Praise God, that's great.
[01:15:16]  I said to him, Sarcasm, you don't need your wife to agree with that statement, at least not right now.
[01:15:22]  Yeah, what you need to do is you need to build into your family or your church the doctrine of patriarchy of roles.
[01:15:31]  Of biblical roles, and they need to be rooted pre fall.
[01:15:35]  So it needs to be presented as not just something that men and women have to deal with, but with God's best design for humanity.
[01:15:44]  And that needs to be presented and reinforced slowly, especially if it's your spouse, right?
[01:15:51]  Do not run into there and just say, You've got to do everything I say right now.
[01:15:57]  While that's true, right?
[01:15:59]  It's true.
[01:16:01]  Go slowly.
[01:16:02]  Present the word, let the word do its work, strive to be an excellent leader.
[01:16:06]  Because part of the problem is women are convinced that if they submit, their husband is just going to be the kind who spends, you know, 20 hours a week watching football.
[01:16:18]  But no, like it goes both ways.
[01:16:20]  She submits to a man who she submits, that's her calling.
[01:16:23]  But ideally, the leadership role that a husband is to exercise is supposed to be substantial.
[01:16:29]  And so that leading a family and submitting makes sense together.
[01:16:35]  So, I don't know.
[01:16:37]  If it's in the family, if it's in your family or in your church, close friends, don't push too hard too quickly.
[01:16:43]  One piece of advice that's good that I often give that's painfully practical but highly effective.
[01:16:49]  And it plays into kind of the top of the episode and what Stephen said women tend to be more consensus driven and men tend to be more contrarian.
[01:16:59]  Well, you can be strategic and shrewd, not compromised and not deceitful, but wise and play into that feminine nature of them being consensus driven.
[01:17:10]  If you want your wife to become super duper based, get her around based women.
[01:17:21]  Like, seriously, you can show her the truths of scripture, and that should be enough.
[01:17:29]  And over time, if she's a Christian, by the power of the Holy Spirit and sanctification, I have to believe that it can be enough and often will be enough.
[01:17:39]  But also, you can play to her natural disposition.
[01:17:43]  If.
[01:17:45]  If a family moves to Georgetown, I'd like to think that we're one of the boroughs that people could select.
[01:17:52]  Back to a previous question.
[01:17:53]  If somebody moves to Georgetown and joins Covenant Bible Church, and the wife has a pattern of being insubordinate and disrespecting her husband and not submitting to him, it's not just that her husband would be trying to lead her in the opposite direction, but every single woman in the church would as well.
[01:18:14]  She will be.
[01:18:16]  She's going to experience some, what I would call righteous peer pressure.
[01:18:20]  She's going to feel out of place.
[01:18:22]  She might even be a little bit embarrassed.
[01:18:24]  One of the reasons why women sometimes object to their husband, even though they should trust him, one of the reasons they object to their husband is because the husband is the minority and the consensus.
[01:18:33]  Everyone else around them is reinforcing their feminist default factory settings.
[01:18:40]  So get her out of that environment.
[01:18:42]  And so, what community you choose to be a part of, what church you choose to be members of, is paramount.
[01:18:49]  And if it's like, well, but we're going to the best church that we can find within a 60 mile radius and all that, like, I get it.
[01:18:55]  In some cases, move.
[01:18:55]  Well, we can't move because, you know, both pawpaws, not just one, but both of our pawpaws and our memaws, you know, they're both sick, you know, and we have, I get it.
[01:19:03]  There's family obligations, but so you may not be able to go to a good church and blah, blah, blah.
[01:19:08]  But here's something you can do.
[01:19:09]  And I know that there's a little bit of a price, but I mean, you know, well, what's the value of your wife's soul and the value of your marriage and all these kinds of things?
[01:19:18]  Like, Okay, you can't find a church.
[01:19:20]  Well, maybe you can't go to a great church every single week, but you could go to a conference once a year.
[01:19:27]  Conference is just for the record, it is not about the content.
[01:19:30]  Our conference, we're going to do everything we can to provide great content, but all the content will eventually be available on YouTube, right?
[01:19:38]  Spoiler alert.
[01:19:40]  You technically don't have to come to our conference if all you want is the content.
[01:19:44]  But here's the point the point is that content is not the point.
[01:19:49]  The purpose of conferences is the relationships, it's the networking.
[01:19:54]  And it's a three day reprieve from a world that's gone to hell in a handbasket to be just simply reminded to have a sanity check and be reminded that you're not alone and that you're not crazy and to be around other like minded people.
[01:20:06]  And your wife, if she's not particularly on board, but she's open, but she's not really on board with some of these things, she's not really patriarchal, bring her to the New Christendom Conference, bring her to the Right Response Conference, and she'll be surrounded by a bunch of women who are joyfully submitting to their husbands, children that are.
[01:20:24]  Playing around during the sessions, and she'll see a few head coverings in the mix and all these kinds of things.
[01:20:30]  And she'll realize, hey, there's a bunch of happy families.
[01:20:33]  Maybe this isn't so crazy.
[01:20:35]  There's a consensus.
[01:20:36]  And literally, her feminine disposition that's preordained towards the majority might be right, or even the majority must be right get her around a thousand people who are all telling her she's wrong without even saying it, without being disrespectful, but merely by their presence and their actions.
[01:20:53]  And she'll be like, oh, there's actually a lot of people who think like my husband.
[01:20:56]  So maybe I can agree with him now.
[01:20:58]  Right.
[01:20:59]  Use that to your advantage.
[01:21:00]  Yeah.
[01:21:01]  That's my thought.
[01:21:03]  All right.
[01:21:03]  One more question and let's call it a day.
[01:21:06]  This is real quick.
[01:21:07]  Someone's asking if there's going to be an option to pay to watch the conference live.
[01:21:12]  Yes.
[01:21:13]  So you got the ISCR series now on Patreon.
[01:21:15]  You got Stephen Wolf coming out in January.
[01:21:16]  It's going to be at first on Patreon.
[01:21:18]  And you also have the same thing.
[01:21:20]  The conference will be available exclusively to live stream as it's happening on Patreon.
[01:21:26]  And not only to live stream if you miss it as it's happening, The full recorded sessions will be right there, every single one of them, the debate, the panels, the major sessions, all of it will be available on Patreon the moment that it happens.
[01:21:38]  And then it will eventually be made available to the public, but we're going to slow drip out.
[01:21:44]  There's going to be three panels, eight main sessions, so 11 pieces of content dropped one per week, one per week.
[01:21:51]  So you're talking almost three months by the time you get all of them out.
[01:21:55]  And so all that will be dropped one of these 11 pieces of content per week to the public.
[01:22:01]  But if you want all 11 pieces of content to watch live as it's happening, or in the next couple days or the next couple weeks, you don't want to wait, go to Patreon.
[01:22:09]  And that one, I'm pretty sure for the live stream, we're going to make that available for our gold tier Patreon members.
[01:22:15]  But again, that'll be patreon.com forward slash right response ministries.
[01:22:19]  Patreon.com forward slash right response ministries, gold tier.
[01:22:22]  It'll be 10 bucks.
[01:22:23]  And you will basically get to virtually attend our conference for 10 bucks.
[01:22:27]  You can watch the stuff and cancel if you want.
[01:22:29]  So you should do it.
[01:22:30]  On with a two part super chat.
[01:22:32]  They're both for Stephen.
[01:22:33]  So, two simple questions.
[01:22:35]  Jeff Hafley, what are some of your favorite founders who are also vocal Christians?
[01:22:39]  Examples like Patrick Hendry and Roger Sherman and Samuel Adams.
[01:22:43]  And then, Stephen, from Michael, which ministries do you think have helped advance Christian nationalism the most?
[01:22:48]  So, favorite founders who are Christian and then ministries today that are helping.
[01:22:52]  Yeah, I mean, everyone loves Sam Adams, Samuel Adams, so I won't mention that.
[01:22:55]  But I actually really like Roger Sherman.
[01:22:57]  He's one of those forgotten founders.
[01:22:58]  He was very, very important from everything from Connell Congress to First Amendment.
[01:23:03]  He was on that committee.
[01:23:05]  John Adams called him an old Puritan.
[01:23:10]  And he was a very, very important man.
[01:23:11]  He also dialogued with Jonathan Edwards' son.
[01:23:16]  John Edwards?
[01:23:17]  I don't remember his name.
[01:23:19]  And there are writings of Roger Sherman where he was like an amateur theologian.
[01:23:23]  And it was clearly old style orthodoxy.
[01:23:26]  It was like old side orthodoxy.
[01:23:27]  So I always like Roger Sherman, less known.
[01:23:31]  But yeah, there's also John Witherspoon.
[01:23:33]  And who's the other guy?
[01:23:34]  Patrick Henry.
[01:23:36]  There's an Orson Welles reading of Patrick Henry's.
[01:23:40]  Give me a liberty speech.
[01:23:41]  So if you see, if you like, search that on YouTube, and it's really great.
[01:23:45]  So watch that.
[01:23:46]  All right.
[01:23:47]  So, which ministry do you think has helped advance Christian nationalism?
[01:23:50]  I would say Sovereign Nations has done a lot for me.
[01:23:55]  No, actually, I mean, in a way, that's where I got my start.
[01:23:58]  Like, a lot of the book was from the articles for that show.
[01:24:01]  That's funny.
[01:24:02]  Now they don't exactly like me.
[01:24:03]  But I think, like, Right Response, Joel Webbin is also, I mean, good friends have been like John Harris.
[01:24:10]  John Harris doesn't say he's Christian nationalist, he does identify with that, but he's been a good friend.
[01:24:16]  I don't know.
[01:24:16]  American.
[01:24:17]  He shares American principles.
[01:24:19]  Yeah, yeah.
[01:24:19]  I mean, he and I are not, like, he doesn't totally align with what I say, but he's a good guy.
[01:24:25]  American Reformer, of course.
[01:24:26]  So, American Reformer is crucial.
[01:24:29]  That's like, in terms of like print, in terms of like articles, that is the spearhead for not just Christian nationalism, but the broad Christian right.
[01:24:39]  So, if you're not following American Reformer or getting the emails, go on there and subscribe to those guys.
[01:24:44]  Definitely.
[01:24:45]  All right, guys.

=== Grateful Hearts Give Gifts (04:13) ===

[01:24:47]  Oh, and I saw in the chat a few people asked, How's Mabel?
[01:24:49]  She is doing great.
[01:24:51]  And one of the challenges that we have had.
[01:24:56]  Is when it comes to nursing.
[01:24:58]  And some of you guys were aware of that and have been praying.
[01:25:01]  And I'm pleased to say she's about a month old, gaining weight even ahead of schedule and no supplementing necessary.
[01:25:09]  And this is our fifth child, the first time that God has enabled my wife to be able to do that.
[01:25:14]  So my wife is almost in tears with just how happy and grateful she is.
[01:25:20]  So things are going great.
[01:25:21]  I appreciate you guys asking and your prayers and concern for her.
[01:25:25]  And Please keep our ministry in your prayers.
[01:25:31]  Controversy doesn't bother me a whole lot, but it is tiring at times.
[01:25:35]  So pray that the Lord would sustain me and that I would be faithful and vigilant and that I would never back down in terms of courage, but also that I would continue to refine in terms of wisdom, that I wouldn't be foolish, that it wouldn't just be controversy for controversy's sake.
[01:25:51]  And kind of a blend of Right Response Ministries and Mabel, my family.
[01:25:55]  We've got five kids, they're all little, all under the age of seven.
[01:26:00]  And a newborn that's a month old.
[01:26:03]  And so we have needs on the family side where right response, and it blends over to where right response basically we need, I've said this before, but we need some help.
[01:26:16]  We need some staff.
[01:26:18]  We need some more resources.
[01:26:20]  We need some extra space to rent and things like that.
[01:26:24]  And we're coming up on the end of the year.
[01:26:27]  And I don't want to be a burden to anybody.
[01:26:29]  Don't ever do this as a substitute to tithing to your local church or anything like that.
[01:26:33]  Um, nobody needs to you know have their kids skip a meal, you know, on behalf of this ministry.
[01:26:37]  But if the Lord has um enabled you and blessed you, uh, and if He's used this ministry as a spiritual blessing, um, and it's not at the expense of your family or your church, then we humbly request that you would consider not just you know coming to a conference or paying for content with Patreon, but um, we are a non profit um organization, a ministry, and um, and we we ultimately uh survive off of simply generosity and your donations, and so.
[01:27:06]  Here at the end, we're coming up at the end of the year.
[01:27:08]  We're able to offer tax receipts.
[01:27:10]  Your gifts are tax deductible.
[01:27:13]  And so, here at the end of the year, my prayer I'm not really, I haven't pushed for it much, but I'm praying that God, in his kindness and faithfulness towards us as we seek to be faithful to you, is that God would move on the hearts of some of you to give some really generous, larger gifts, end of the year gifts.
[01:27:32]  And so, it's the month of December.
[01:27:34]  We're here at the end of the year for tax purposes and generosity purposes and all those things.
[01:27:40]  If you would consider giving a gift to WriteResponse, whether big or small, we would be incredibly grateful and appreciative for that.
[01:27:48]  You can do so by going to rightresponseministries.com forward slash donate.
[01:27:54]  Again, that's rightresponseministries.com forward slash donate.
[01:27:59]  Your gifts are tax deductible, and every single penny will be used not just to make somebody comfortable, but to either get another camera or a few more square feet or an administrative assistant or Michael and Wes.
[01:28:17]  We're doing the live stream, it's going to be three times next year instead of once.
[01:28:21]  That's just too much for me to expect it to be pro bono.
[01:28:23]  And so I need to, the only way they're able to do that is they're going to be pulling back from their day jobs, and that income has to be made up with Right Response so that they can come and be a blessing to me and be a blessing to you and offer their services and their wisdom and their insight three times a week instead of one.
[01:28:38]  And it's just the reality of the world.
[01:28:39]  All those things cost money.
[01:28:40]  So if you're willing to be generous towards this ministry, we're incredibly grateful.
[01:28:45]  Thank you so much.
[01:28:46]  Again, RightResponseMinistries.com forward slash donate.
[01:28:50]  Merry Christmas.
[01:28:52]  Lord willing, we'll see you again next week.
[01:28:54]  And stay faithful and trust the Lord.
[01:28:58]  Be bold and also don't be stupid.
[01:29:00]  All right.