NXR Podcast - THE INTERVIEW - The Type Of Church That Will Last with @ADRobles - ICYMI
Aired: 2024-11-25
Duration: 01:07:06


=== Why We Need This Content (02:22) ===

[00:00:00]  Leave us a five star review on your favorite podcast platform.
[00:00:04]  I get it.
[00:00:04]  It's annoying.
[00:00:05]  Everybody asks, but I'm going to tell you why.
[00:00:07]  When you give us a positive review, what that does is it triggers the algorithm so that our podcast shows up on more people's news feeds.
[00:00:16]  You and I both know that this ministry is willing to talk about things that most ministries aren't.
[00:00:21]  We need this content for the glory of God to reach more people's ears.
[00:00:27]  You're doing a great job.
[00:00:28]  We've got several hundred reviews so far, but we'd like to reach a thousand reviews by the end of this year.
[00:00:34]  The year of our Lord 2024.
[00:00:37]  If you haven't left a review yet, take a moment and help us achieve our goal.
[00:00:42]  Welcome back to another episode of Theology Applied.
[00:00:44]  I'm your host, Pastor Joel Webbin with Right Response Ministries.
[00:00:48]  In this particular episode of Theology Applied, I'm privileged to welcome back to the show AD Robles.
[00:00:54]  In this episode, we discuss three primary characteristics of local churches that will endure the coming persecution to America.
[00:01:04]  In 50 years from now, if America still exists, if God is so merciful, There's three different characteristics that will cause churches to be able to survive the coming persecution to our nation.
[00:01:18]  Many churches have closed their doors.
[00:01:21]  Many more, sadly, will close their doors in the coming decades.
[00:01:25]  But I guarantee you that there are three characteristics that will make the difference.
[00:01:30]  What are those three characteristics?
[00:01:32]  Tune into this episode to find out.
[00:01:35]  Applying God's Word to every aspect of life.
[00:01:38]  This is Theology Applied.
[00:01:45]  Welcome to another episode of Theology Applied.
[00:01:47]  I am your host, Pastor Joel Webbin with Right Response Ministries.
[00:01:50]  And in this particular episode, I am privileged to welcome back to the show a regular guest that we have on Right Response Ministries, Adi Robles.
[00:01:58]  Hey, how's it going?
[00:01:59]  Thanks for inviting me again.
[00:02:01]  You're welcome.
[00:02:02]  Tell our listeners just a little bit about yourself, just in case they don't know who you are.
[00:02:07]  Yeah, absolutely.
[00:02:08]  I got a YouTube channel, I got a podcast on the Fight Laugh Feast Network.
[00:02:11]  You can find me just by typing in my name on both.
[00:02:15]  AD Robles, R O B L E S. I'm also pretty active on Twitter.
[00:02:19]  If you don't like fighting, you know, you probably won't want to follow me on Twitter.

=== Church Survival in Hard Times (09:34) ===

[00:02:22]  But if you like seeing uplifting stuff, I'm also on Gab.
[00:02:25]  I'll post pictures of my, you know, kids playing Little League or my chickens or fishing pictures.
[00:02:31]  So if you like that kind of stuff, you know, just like normal, regular life, I'm on Gab as well.
[00:02:36]  Cool.
[00:02:37]  Yeah.
[00:02:37]  I think you posted something today, the day that we're recording this, that said like Twitter, you know, I go to Twitter to fight, I go to Gab to relax.
[00:02:45]  Twitter's really good for fighting.
[00:02:46]  It is.
[00:02:47]  I mean, it just is the way the algorithm works.
[00:02:49]  You know, it's very difficult to sort of block out anything like all the things you don't want to see on Twitter.
[00:02:56]  On Gab, it's really easy.
[00:02:57]  So, like a lot of people say, Gab, you know, is full of haters, and there's definitely a lot of aggression on Gab, no question.
[00:03:03]  But it's very easy to curate it.
[00:03:04]  So, what I've done at Gab is just anyone who's got any kind of like hardcore negativity, I just block them, I just mute them, whatever.
[00:03:12]  And I've curated this list.
[00:03:13]  If you look at my Gab, if you were on my side of it, it's just like pictures of people's farms and fishing pictures and stuff like that.
[00:03:21]  It's just a very, very pleasant place.
[00:03:23]  Nice.
[00:03:24]  Cool.
[00:03:25]  Well, so what I was thinking for this episode is kind of a prediction episode.
[00:03:29]  What will the church look like in the future?
[00:03:32]  And more particularly, like what type of church, what kind of churches are going to make it?
[00:03:37]  You know, the NGMI?
[00:03:39]  Not going to make it?
[00:03:43]  I'm like sitting there.
[00:03:45]  I like that one.
[00:03:46]  That's a good one.
[00:03:46]  Yeah, not going to make it.
[00:03:48]  And so, like, what kind of church, you know, kind of maybe a white pill spin on it?
[00:03:53]  What kind of church is going to make it?
[00:03:55]  And I've thought of three things.
[00:03:58]  That I think that we could just kind of go back and forth and discuss the type of church that I think is going to make it.
[00:04:04]  Like, I'd love to say, you know, like I'd love to do on this episode say, well, there's seven things like being confessionally reformed and being covenantal and your theonomy and presuppositional and patriarchal and, you know, Kyperion and, you know, theologic.
[00:04:18]  That would be nice and neat.
[00:04:19]  Right.
[00:04:19]  Yeah.
[00:04:19]  And like, so that, I mean, that's, you know, if I'm hosting a conference, which I am, March 1st, 2nd, and 3rd, Doug Wilson is coming.
[00:04:26]  We got Foster coming.
[00:04:27]  And so, Like, I'm going to focus on those things because I think that's the right path.
[00:04:31]  But, you know, in the spirit of a big tent ecumenical spirit, you know, I think that, like, okay, if we can boil things down to the common denominator, I think there are three primary characteristics that pop into my mind of the type of church that I think would still be around in 50 years.
[00:04:47]  So, if I, you know, I'll think about the title for this episode, but it would probably be something along the lines of, you know, the type of church that will survive the next 50 years in America.
[00:04:57]  So, anyway, so I won't list them all up.
[00:05:00]  Front, I'll just start with one and then throw it to you.
[00:05:02]  But one thing that I think is churches that engage the culture, engage society, engage the world around them.
[00:05:09]  They're not pietistic.
[00:05:11]  So they're engaging the world, but also they have a certain optimism.
[00:05:15]  They think that they can win.
[00:05:17]  And I don't mean by that that they have optimistic eschatology like post millennialism.
[00:05:23]  Again, that would be like one of, you know, if that's my path, I'm going to try to get guys to be post millennial because I think it's true.
[00:05:30]  But I'm not saying that you have to be post millennial.
[00:05:32]  I'm thinking of like, you know, There were certain things that were wrong with this movement, but like the Joshua generation, you know, in a few decades past, you know, there was a lot of good things that came out of that.
[00:05:44]  And for the most part, a lot of these guys, they weren't Calvinists.
[00:05:47]  They were Arminian, you know, kind of Arminian decisionism, Baptist with the dispensational, premillennial ingrained, you know, eschatology.
[00:05:56]  That's just the air that they were breathing.
[00:05:58]  And yet they were raising their kids, homeschooling their kids, raising them to know the Lord and not just to retreat, but to actually run.
[00:06:06]  For political office and to try to change the fabric of society with a mindset that not that Jesus is going to come back in 20, 30, 40,000 years, but that Jesus might come back in 50 years.
[00:06:20]  But they were thinking, okay, but 50 years, my kids have to live during these next 50 years.
[00:06:26]  And I'm going to have grandkids in these next 50 years.
[00:06:29]  So I'd like these next 50 years to be good.
[00:06:31]  And so, anyway, so that, you know, I think like even the dispensational, so I'm not making it eschatological, I'm saying, Even from a dispensational pre mill standpoint, which I would sharply disagree with, just like post mill, we're saying, okay, the trajectory overall is up, but there are dips along the way.
[00:06:47]  I think we're in a dip right now.
[00:06:48]  Well, you could be pre mill dispy and say the overall trajectory is down, but there are some spikes along the way.
[00:06:54]  So, why wouldn't you?
[00:06:55]  Because we know in the last 2,000 years, even if you're dispensational pre millennial, you can't argue with history that in the last 2,000 years, we've had some good moments, we've had some spikes where things actually improve.
[00:07:07]  So, there's no biblical argument to say that that couldn't happen here and that it couldn't happen now.
[00:07:12]  So, no matter where you're at eschatologically, I think every Christian should believe that we might be able to win a battle or two.
[00:07:22]  And winning a battle or two could make a world of difference for our children and what kind of life, the quality of life that they're going to have.
[00:07:29]  And so, I think, you know, so I'm not saying every church is going to be post millennial, but I think over the next 50 years, churches that engage the culture, society, politics, and engage it with an attitude that that engagement matters and that it's not just beating at the wind, it could actually make a difference.
[00:07:45]  I think that kind of church will last.
[00:07:46]  I think any church that's pietistic, that doesn't really engage the culture or thinks that there's not even spikes along a downward trajectory, that there's no victory, not even for 10 years or a decade, I think those churches are going to go the way of the dinosaur.
[00:07:59]  What do you think?
[00:08:00]  You know, I think if you think of the next 50 years, you know, and if you think like I do about sort of the economy and stuff like that, you're not, you know, you're not doom and gloom necessarily, but I think most people kind of agree that the standard of living that we've enjoyed for a very long time.
[00:08:18]  Is kind of steadily decreasing.
[00:08:20]  And so over 50 years, that might go down even further, you know?
[00:08:24]  And so that doesn't mean we're all going to be, you know, starving to death, you know, or something like that.
[00:08:29]  But it's just like, even today, like, I don't know how it is around you in Texas, but like when I go to the store today, it's a lot different than when I used to go to the store five years ago.
[00:08:38]  It's like five years ago, nothing was ever out of stock.
[00:08:43]  These days, certain things are out of stock from time to time.
[00:08:46]  And it's not a big deal.
[00:08:47]  I don't want to like seem like I'm complaining that we still have an abundance, we still have everything we need.
[00:08:50]  But It's just different.
[00:08:52]  And I think, you know, it's more similar to what you see in other countries, you know, where they don't have as quite the standard of living that we do in the United States, or at least that we've had.
[00:09:01]  So as the standard of living goes down, I think people, you know, like they do tend to like sort of cling to spiritual things a lot more joyfully.
[00:09:13]  I don't know if you've ever noticed this.
[00:09:14]  Like if you've been on like a mission trip to a poor area, whether it's in the United States or outside the United States, like the churches are just a lot more optimistic, I think.
[00:09:24]  Than some of the churches that I grew up in in Connecticut.
[00:09:26]  You know what I mean?
[00:09:28]  And I don't know if that's just because they're charismatic or maybe that's part of it, but I don't know.
[00:09:33]  I feel like people need an outlet for positivity when things aren't quite going as well as they want them to be.
[00:09:42]  And maybe that's part of it.
[00:09:43]  Maybe it's just kind of a natural thing where life's a little tougher.
[00:09:48]  So you kind of lean on the church for more of your joy.
[00:09:53]  You get together with people, you hang out, you do these things that.
[00:09:56]  Maybe you wouldn't do if things were better for you.
[00:09:59]  You know what I mean?
[00:09:59]  Things were going really well.
[00:10:01]  I don't know if that's really real, but to me, I've noticed that when I've gone into poor areas, the churches in poor areas, church is a little different.
[00:10:09]  You know what I mean?
[00:10:10]  Right.
[00:10:12]  Yeah.
[00:10:12]  It's more positive, but a lot of that does come from what you just put your finger on the communal aspect.
[00:10:16]  It seems like the communal aspect.
[00:10:18]  That's it.
[00:10:18]  That's it.
[00:10:18]  That's actually exactly what I'm thinking of.
[00:10:20]  Yeah.
[00:10:20]  Because I think we, you know, part of it is like when you have so much stuff, you're more content to be alone.
[00:10:26]  So it's just like, I'm just going to spend.
[00:10:28]  A quiet evening, you know, like a lot of Americans, when they think of like, you know, even on Twitter or social media, like describe, you know, the perfect evening.
[00:10:35]  A lot of people like the description that they would, that they would, you know, put forward for the, you know, an evening that they would enjoy would be an evening alone or maybe an evening just with their spouse.
[00:10:46]  It would be, you know, glasses.
[00:10:47]  I know I'm like that.
[00:10:48]  Right, exactly.
[00:10:48]  Yeah.
[00:10:48]  It would be a book or a glass of wine or watching a sunset or in a hot tub or, but like none of them, one common denominator is that it's not this big communal.
[00:10:59]  Kind of thing.
[00:10:59]  Whereas, like, you think of Southern slavery, you know, in America, and like part of the reason why, like, the black church would have still, even historically to this day, you know, the overtones of this continuing, like, traditionally really long services, you know, like five hour long church services where it's just singing and singing and singing and singing and preaching and preaching and preaching and preaching without getting into any of the theology.
[00:11:22]  Like, part of that does come over from, like, all right, if life is hard six days a week, then on the Lord's day, it's like, this is.
[00:11:30]  A moment of reprieve, and we don't want it to end, but they spent it together.
[00:11:33]  You know what I mean?
[00:11:34]  Like, it wasn't like, hey, we just, you would think, like, you know, I'm physically exhausted.
[00:11:39]  I'm just going to stay home and sleep all day, but that wasn't the mindset at all.
[00:11:42]  It was like, I don't want to waste a minute of daylight.
[00:11:44]  I'm going to get with the saints, get with my brothers, get with my sisters, and we're going to spend, we're going to have some good old timey church, and it's going to be all day long.
[00:11:54]  And so, I'm with you.

=== The Future of the Church (06:06) ===

[00:11:57]  Yeah.
[00:11:57]  And I don't think it's a matter, like you said, it's not really a matter of eschatology because I think of a lot of the people I'm thinking of, you know, my grandparents, for example, are one of them.
[00:12:04]  You know, I used to go to their house in the Bronx, you know, and compared to people in the Bronx, they were pretty well off compared to like some people in the Bronx.
[00:12:11]  But, you know, like their eschatology, like, They didn't share what you and I believe about eschatology.
[00:12:19]  They thought that the world was going to hell in a handbasket, you know, but they didn't really act that way.
[00:12:24]  You know what I mean?
[00:12:25]  They had a family.
[00:12:27]  Their kids had a lot of kids and they were playing for the future.
[00:12:31]  They were setting money aside.
[00:12:32]  They were doing this.
[00:12:32]  They were doing that.
[00:12:33]  They had an expectation of, you know, we've got to make moves here.
[00:12:39]  You know what I mean?
[00:12:40]  Even though their theology was not that way, it was sort of like, you know, Christ is coming tomorrow, probably.
[00:12:45]  And I think I've heard my grandmother even say that many times.
[00:12:49]  It really wasn't like that.
[00:12:50]  It's just they were making moves in their own way, and they felt like Christ was on their side and they could do what they needed to do, and they had confidence in the future, they had faith in the future.
[00:13:06]  So, yeah, it's a very interesting dynamic because you're right.
[00:13:09]  It really doesn't have a lot to do with their formal eschatology.
[00:13:13]  You know what I mean?
[00:13:14]  Right.
[00:13:15]  Yeah, that's interesting.
[00:13:17]  I think you're right about that.
[00:13:18]  Going into the future, the next 50 years.
[00:13:20]  People are going to be looking for that a bit more because there's a lot of blackfield people out there, Joel.
[00:13:23]  I don't know if you've noticed.
[00:13:24]  There are.
[00:13:25]  There are.
[00:13:26]  A lot of them are Christians, sadly, or at least professing Christians.
[00:13:29]  But yeah, so I think post millennial eschatology is on the up and up.
[00:13:33]  I think there's a resurgence.
[00:13:34]  So I think we are going to find more post millennial churches.
[00:13:37]  And I'm excited about that because I think it's biblically true, not just because it's fun, not just because I think it appeals to young men, which I do think it appeals to young men.
[00:13:44]  There are all the pragmatic reasons and all, you know, all the, but ultimately I think that it's true to the scripture.
[00:13:49]  I think it's what the scripture teaches.
[00:13:51]  And so, I want to see that become a more dominant eschatology.
[00:13:55]  And I think that's going to happen.
[00:13:56]  But my point is, I think if I'm getting down to the common, the lowest common denominator, I think it's simply going to be people who believe it's going to be not so much anti premillennialism.
[00:14:11]  I think it's going to be anti pietism, it's going to be anti retreatism.
[00:14:16]  And it's going to be people who are engaging the world.
[00:14:21]  They think that the church actually has.
[00:14:24]  Um, potential to change the world, even if they think that's only going to be uh temporary, even if even if they think Jesus is going to come back in 20 years, but um, uh, but we can uh, we could make the next five years better.
[00:14:39]  And five years, uh, a five year improvement matters, it matters for me, for my wife, for my children, for my grandchildren, and it's worth fighting for.
[00:14:48]  So, I think that's like that's one of the things that honestly, you can kind of get a you know, I'm thinking 50 years.
[00:14:54]  You know, but you can get a really good five year gauge of what the church is going to be like by just looking at kind of like the pink pill, you know, conservative world outside of the church.
[00:15:08]  Cause that's really, you know, that's, I mean, the church is just, it's embarrassing how behind.
[00:15:13]  Like right now, I think the church is more woke than the world.
[00:15:16]  And it's because the church is always like five to seven years behind.
[00:15:19]  So, so the church, like there are guys like, like establishment regime, big EVA guys.
[00:15:25]  Who are literally like, they're more woke than the average person that you meet at the grocery store.
[00:15:29]  And it's not because that person at the grocery store wasn't that woke.
[00:15:33]  They just, they were that woke in 2020 and they're just up with the times, you know.
[00:15:38]  But JD Greer still hasn't got the memo.
[00:15:40]  You know what I mean?
[00:15:41]  Like, it's, isn't that embarrassing?
[00:15:43]  Like, yes.
[00:15:48]  But it's true.
[00:15:49]  It's so true.
[00:15:50]  So, my point is, I think the church is going to come out of wokeness.
[00:15:54]  And this is so sad to say.
[00:15:56]  But why am I confident the church is going to come out of wokeness?
[00:15:58]  Well, first, because I think Jesus is Lord and he's the head of the church and he's not going to abandon us.
[00:16:04]  But secondly, I think the church is going to come out of wokeness in approximately five years because the culture as a whole is coming out of wokeness and the church usually follows the culture five years behind.
[00:16:15]  Crazy stuff, man.
[00:16:16]  Crazy stuff.
[00:16:18]  All right.
[00:16:18]  So, anyways, okay.
[00:16:19]  So, the second one that I was thinking is law and gospel.
[00:16:22]  So, the first one is engaging the world, not being pietistic and being hopeful.
[00:16:27]  You could still think overall the trajectory is down in terms of your eschatology, but thinking that we could make a difference now and that difference matters.
[00:16:35]  So, even if it's only going to be better for 10 years or 20 or 50.
[00:16:38]  So, I think that's number one.
[00:16:39]  Number two, I think, is churches that don't just preach the gospel, but also preach.
[00:16:44]  The law.
[00:16:45]  So, why don't you talk to us a little bit because you've had experience with this?
[00:16:48]  You were at Tim Keller's church for a while.
[00:16:50]  You know, may you rest in peace.
[00:16:51]  I think Tim Keller, for the record, I think you would agree with this.
[00:16:54]  I think he's with the Lord right now.
[00:16:55]  I think that he was regenerate.
[00:16:56]  I think that, like 1 Corinthians 3, verses 8 through 11, you know, like I think not everything Keller did, but a good bit was wood, hay, and stubble, especially towards the end of his ministry, was burned up.
[00:17:08]  He suffered much loss, but he himself is saved.
[00:17:11]  You know, and so I think Tim Keller is with the Lord.
[00:17:14]  But I think Tim Keller probably had some regrets.
[00:17:16]  Right now, I think he's in eternal bliss.
[00:17:18]  But I think when he first saw the Lord, there were some apologies that were taking place for some of his latter ministry.
[00:17:25]  But all that being said, so I'm not trying to pick on him because I know he just recently died.
[00:17:29]  But my point is Tim Keller is kind of the pinnacle, the epitome of what I would call not gospel centrality, but gospel myopticism, gospel onlyism.
[00:17:39]  Can you talk about problems with that?
[00:17:42]  Preaching the law, here's the thing I think that.
[00:17:47]  Especially men, there's a need for like a practicality to the faith as well.
[00:17:54]  So, listen, a simple faith, that's a beautiful thing.
[00:17:59]  And you trust in the Lord for your salvation.
[00:18:01]  That's a beautiful thing.

=== Building a Parallel Economy (03:35) ===

[00:18:03]  And it's part of the commission.
[00:18:05]  We're baptizing the nations in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
[00:18:09]  So, that's like obviously, we've got to focus on converting people to the faith.
[00:18:14]  That's for sure.
[00:18:15]  But I think men, especially, like, I think men get frustrated when it's like, you know, you ask questions.
[00:18:24]  Because I remember I used to ask this question.
[00:18:26]  So, like, okay, now what?
[00:18:27]  What do I do?
[00:18:28]  You know what I mean?
[00:18:29]  And basically, the answer that I would get is like, well, you just come to church on Sunday and you sing these songs and, you know, and maybe we'll talk about our struggles with sin and that's about it.
[00:18:41]  But that's not about it.
[00:18:43]  You know what I mean?
[00:18:43]  Because the commission itself, a whole half of it is about teaching them to observe everything that I command.
[00:18:50]  And so, I think that what you're kind of referring to here is that the churches that'll survive are actually going to be teaching, are going to be doing the second part of that commission.
[00:19:00]  Now, the question that I have is are they doing it for good or for ill?
[00:19:04]  Like, are they teaching the right way or the wrong way, right?
[00:19:07]  Are they teaching you?
[00:19:08]  But I guess your point is to survive one way or the other, whether it's a solid church or not a solid church, they're going to have to be doing that.
[00:19:17]  You know, they're going to have to, it's not going to be enough to have the sentimentality to survive in the next 50 years.
[00:19:23]  Right.
[00:19:24]  I think that's kind of what you're driving at, right?
[00:19:25]  Yep.
[00:19:26]  And I think part of that.
[00:19:27]  Obviously, I prefer they teach correctly.
[00:19:29]  Now is the time to leverage the MAGA economy.
[00:19:32]  With the private family banking system, you can leverage savings in government qualified plans such as IRAs, Roths, 401ks, and 403bs.
[00:19:43]  Remember, your 401k type savings are a future target for higher income taxes.
[00:19:49]  Properly implementing private family banking methods will enormously impact your short term cash use and success in building long term, multi generational, tax free wealth.
[00:20:01]  If you have consumer debt, no problem, they can help accelerate the payoff.
[00:20:06]  If you have a small business, this gets even better.
[00:20:09]  You can invest in the stock market or buy gold or Bitcoin while simultaneously making money on your savings.
[00:20:17]  Does this sound too good to be true?
[00:20:19]  Well, come and join a community of business owners, entrepreneurs, and investors who will show you how to multiply your money while enjoying added income tax protection and building legacy wealth.
[00:20:33]  Join this Parallel Economy group today.
[00:20:36]  Send an email today to banking at privatefamilybanking.com.
[00:20:41]  Again, that's banking at privatefamilybanking.com, and one of our partners will contact you.
[00:20:49]  Also, don't forget to click the link in the show notes below and download a copy of their free e book, How to Build Multi Generational Wealth Outside of Wall Street and Avoid the Coming Banking Meltdown.
[00:21:02]  America is a country that was founded for the purpose of allowing Christians to do their duty before God and not to have their consciences ruled by the doctrines and commandments of men.
[00:21:10]  Reese Fund exists in order to see the Ten Commandments properly applied, not just as a plaque on the wall, but to actually be used in business as though they're commandments from God that we're supposed to obey.
[00:21:21]  Our goal is to find businesses and to buy them and to build them up.
[00:21:26]  We want to find manufacturing businesses and use them to make sure that we can maintain our capacity to do things here.
[00:21:32]  Reese Fund, Christian Capital, boldly deployed.
[00:21:38]  Right.

=== Practical Guidance for Men (15:40) ===

[00:21:39]  But I think part of that is what you just said in terms of men needing to be practically told what to do.
[00:21:45]  I think a lot of that was we were able to assume in like you know a neutral world where there wasn't quite as much opposition, sure, and with a better economy where it was just easier to provide for a family, easier to get a job, more people, you know, just it was just what you did.
[00:22:00]  You got married, you know, typically in your 20s, you had a few kids, you bought a home, but now like those things aren't givens anymore.
[00:22:08]  Like now it's like really hard to find a woman that you trust enough not to ruin your life.
[00:22:14]  That's why, like, you have the whole red pill manosphere, you know, on the secular side of things that is totally not Christian.
[00:22:20]  And like their advice, they're giving law, they're giving practical, you know, steps for men.
[00:22:25]  And those steps are get a vasectomy in your 20s, don't ever get married.
[00:22:30]  And I get it.
[00:22:31]  I mean, it's totally, it's not red pill, it's black pill.
[00:22:34]  Like they're, you know, they're totally wrong.
[00:22:36]  But I get the sentiment because what they're thinking is if you marry a woman, you've just given her a loaded gun.
[00:22:44]  You've just like, you have just given someone the authority and the power and the ability to completely destroy your life.
[00:22:53]  And statistically speaking, It's more likely that she'll do it than that she won't right now.
[00:22:58]  So I think my point is in the world that we now live in, because Christendom has been leaving the port and going out to sea because of our rebellion and our apostasy, because of those things, and because God will not be mocked and a man reaps what he sows, and we're living in a worse world because of it, there are a lot more men who need direction than they used to.
[00:23:19]  And they don't just need man up, they need to be told how to be a man.
[00:23:24]  Practically, what does that mean Monday through Saturday?
[00:23:27]  How do I get married?
[00:23:28]  How do I discern whether or not this woman's going to marry me and then take half of my stuff and leave?
[00:23:35]  So, anyway, so I just think, yeah, I think that trust Jesus, he died for your sin, will not be enough.
[00:23:44]  Churches that only, Keller always preached the first use of the law.
[00:23:48]  So, here's the law of God, and here's how it functions as a mirror that reflects to you your fallenness, your shortcomings, your sin.
[00:23:56]  And then here's the gospel, here's Jesus and how he did all those things, the very things that you just failed to do.
[00:24:02]  And all that was true.
[00:24:04]  And then he's like, here's Jesus, and this is how Jesus fulfilled those things perfectly on your behalf.
[00:24:08]  So trust in Jesus.
[00:24:09]  That's almost a great sermon.
[00:24:11]  I wouldn't say that's wrong at all.
[00:24:13]  I would just say it's incomplete.
[00:24:14]  Then what I think we're going to see over the next 50 years is churches that then add to that the third use of the law that says, so here's the law.
[00:24:22]  This is how you failed.
[00:24:23]  This is why you need Jesus.
[00:24:24]  Here's Jesus.
[00:24:25]  This is how you fulfill these things in your place, not just substitutionary death, but substitutionary life.
[00:24:30]  Now let's go back to the law.
[00:24:32]  In its third use as a lamp unto our feet, a light unto our path, something we delight in that shows us the way not to the way to salvation, but the way from salvation to further sanctification.
[00:24:44]  That shows us not just that we're sinners and we need Jesus, but now that we have Jesus and we're responding in gratitude for the free gospel of grace, it shows us how to live.
[00:24:54]  You know, I think that's going to become, I think that especially young men will not tolerate a Tim Keller type church 10 years from now.
[00:25:04]  20 years from now.
[00:25:05]  Yeah.
[00:25:05]  Yeah.
[00:25:06]  And the thing about this is that, you know, up until now, like guys like Tim Keller have been very good at kind of like not disguising what they're saying, but making it sound good.
[00:25:19]  Because, like, if you told the person, like, you know, yeah, you know, I'm never going to, I'm never really going to tell you practically what to do.
[00:25:26]  Like, that's not important.
[00:25:27]  People would see right through that.
[00:25:29]  Right.
[00:25:29]  So they'll say things like, well, you never actually move on from the gospel.
[00:25:33]  You always need the gospel.
[00:25:34]  You need to preach the gospel to yourself every single day.
[00:25:37]  And you need to, every single passage, it's just really about the gospel and you need to think about that.
[00:25:42]  And it's like, well, that sounds like to some people, especially to new believers, that sounds okay.
[00:25:47]  That sounds pretty good.
[00:25:48]  I guess that makes a lot of sense, you know, because I'm always going to be, you know, fighting against my sin and I still do struggle with my sin.
[00:25:54]  So I guess I do need to just focus on the gospel every single day.
[00:25:57]  And the thing is, though, that like, I think you're right.
[00:25:59]  Like, when times are somewhat normal, you know, somewhat, you can kind of assume a certain set of morality.
[00:26:08]  I mean, I remember when I was growing up, You know, which was not that long ago.
[00:26:12]  I'm not that old yet, Joel, you know, but when I was growing up, it's like everyone kind of knew that like homosexuality was a deviant lifestyle.
[00:26:19]  Even if they didn't think it was a sin, they didn't think it was, you know, anything really wrong with it.
[00:26:24]  It was something that you did not want to do.
[00:26:26]  You didn't want to do that.
[00:26:27]  It was deviant.
[00:26:28]  You know, even degenerates didn't want to degenerate that much.
[00:26:32]  You know what I mean?
[00:26:32]  So in the 1960s, we knew that even a dude, a man having long hair was degenerate.
[00:26:38]  Like that's why a guy would grow up.
[00:26:39]  That's such a good point.
[00:26:40]  And that's a rebellious.
[00:26:42]  Exactly.
[00:26:43]  100%.
[00:26:45]  So, I guess my point is like when everyone's kind of working with the same assumptions, you can kind of get away with some of that stuff.
[00:26:52]  But you're right.
[00:26:53]  Like these days, especially men are struggling with lots of basic, basic stuff.
[00:27:00]  And they're turning to YouTube to basically guide them.
[00:27:05]  And that's a day.
[00:27:06]  YouTube is not necessarily.
[00:27:07]  I like YouTube.
[00:27:08]  Don't get me wrong.
[00:27:10]  There's a lot of cool stuff on YouTube, but there's a lot of garbage on YouTube.
[00:27:13]  Garbage.
[00:27:14]  And I don't know, man.
[00:27:15]  Have you noticed.
[00:27:16]  Joel, some of these like manosphere types, I don't even know if they technically would still call themselves manosphere types, but they that's how they kind of came up.
[00:27:25]  Lately, I've been talking about how good some of these trannies look.
[00:27:28]  I don't know if you've noticed that.
[00:27:29]  There's a few guys that have been doing this, and I'm like, I don't even, I kind of just stay away.
[00:27:35]  And I probably should.
[00:27:36]  Michael Foster's been talking to me and saying, Joel, you should probably.
[00:27:38]  So, do you know who Rolo, I think Tomasi is his name?
[00:27:41]  Do you know who that is?
[00:27:42]  I've heard of him, but I don't really know anything about him.
[00:27:44]  So, he just, we'll see.
[00:27:46]  By the time this comes out, I'm going on his show this Friday.
[00:27:49]  He invited me to come on his show.
[00:27:50]  So, I really don't have any idea what I'm getting into because I like.
[00:27:55]  I don't know that the whole secular manosphere.
[00:27:58]  I've heard from like Foster has told me a few things, Brian Sauvay, you're telling me some things right now.
[00:28:02]  So I feel like I'm getting a little bit of prep, but I've just like Andrew Tate, like I've never listened to a single thing from Andrew Tate.
[00:28:08]  You know what I mean?
[00:28:09]  Like I know his name.
[00:28:12]  So, no, I do not listen to that.
[00:28:13]  I saw a few things recently and I put on my muted words on Twitter.
[00:28:16]  I don't want to see anymore.
[00:28:18]  Yeah.
[00:28:19]  Anyway, the point is though that if we're talking about churches that are going to survive, it's going to be churches that have answers to some of these questions.
[00:28:28]  Right.
[00:28:28]  And again, hopefully they're good answers.
[00:28:30]  Hopefully it's like, it's more than just you got to man up, you know, you got to be a man.
[00:28:34]  Like, that's nothing.
[00:28:35]  That's not anything.
[00:28:38]  But because otherwise they're going to find these answers somewhere else.
[00:28:40]  And there's a lot of very bad answers out there for a lot of these basic questions.
[00:28:44]  Yep.
[00:28:45]  I completely agree.
[00:28:46]  Yeah.
[00:28:46]  Man up, I think, you know, that phrase, man up, like it came from somewhere.
[00:28:51]  And when it first, you know, originated, it probably made sense because what was being said, you were talking to some effeminate, you know, And it was probably something a father would say to a son who's maybe 11, 12 years old.
[00:29:07]  And I don't think that's wrong because he's telling him, when he says man up, he's saying, for one, the boy knows what a man is.
[00:29:17]  We currently live in a culture that can't define what a woman is or a man.
[00:29:23]  But that was at a time when people were saying man up once upon a time.
[00:29:28]  You could assume that somebody actually knew what a man was.
[00:29:30]  And so what you were saying is.
[00:29:33]  You're basically saying, obey the law of God for you as it pertains to you, a man.
[00:29:39]  Right now, you're sinning, you're being effeminate, you're being cowardly, you're being lazy, or whatever it is, you're being rebellious or disrespectful, or whatever it is, or you're not being chivalrous.
[00:29:50]  And you need to be a man, son.
[00:29:53]  You need to man up.
[00:29:54]  Well, now when you say man up, it's like, what is that?
[00:30:00]  What is it?
[00:30:01]  So, guys who just say man up, but don't teach you what it is to be a man, that won't work.
[00:30:05]  And then guys who say, well, Jesus was the perfect man in your place, so you don't have to be one.
[00:30:10]  That gospel centered preaching, that dog won't hunt either, you know?
[00:30:14]  So, yeah.
[00:30:15]  Yeah.
[00:30:15]  Yeah.
[00:30:16]  And the thing is, like, you know, obviously, like most people aren't like totally brain dead and they understand that, you know, men have, you know, male parts and, you know, things like that.
[00:30:25]  But, but you're right.
[00:30:26]  There is basic confusion about what's a man supposed to be doing.
[00:30:30]  Like, what, what, what, what is when a man and a woman get together and they form a family, like, how do they divide up that labor?
[00:30:37]  What's supposed to happen?
[00:30:38]  Like, what's the, what's the, You know, like that stuff.
[00:30:42]  I mean, people are totally confused about that stuff.
[00:30:45]  You know what I mean?
[00:30:46]  I think a lot of people, a lot of guys still have it in their gut.
[00:30:48]  They know they're supposed to be the provider, but like they've been propagandized so much that they think it's almost like it's like sexist to even like try to assert that or to, you know, to push that too hard.
[00:31:00]  You're totally right.
[00:31:01]  Like, I think like the I don't know what a woman is kind of stuff.
[00:31:05]  Yeah, there's some wackos out there that pretend like they don't actually know.
[00:31:08]  They do know, but there's a lot of confusion about what we're supposed to be doing.
[00:31:13]  What men are supposed to be doing, what women are supposed to be doing, what they're not supposed to be doing.
[00:31:16]  Right.
[00:31:17]  Yep, I agree.
[00:31:18]  So, I think, you know, law and gospel, like we can, it's never anything less than the gospel.
[00:31:22]  But that's, you know, that's been my hobby horse for a few years now is just saying, okay, like if we really want to be gospel centered, well, a gospel centered sermon is not law and gospel, amen, let's go home.
[00:31:36]  Like, quite literally, for it to be gospel centered, it's law, gospel, law.
[00:31:40]  Like the gospel is in the center, right?
[00:31:42]  And so the gospel is flanked on not just the front end, but the front and the back on both sides, right?
[00:31:48]  It's like an Oreo cookie.
[00:31:49]  You got, you know, you got two little chocolate lollies.
[00:31:51]  Pieces, you know, and then you got that white, creamy gospel in the center.
[00:31:55]  And so, and that's that is like that's the way the Bible works.
[00:31:59]  It's here's the law of God.
[00:32:01]  And in its first use, it's like, oh my goodness, that's that's God.
[00:32:05]  God's a thrice holy God.
[00:32:06]  That's his perfect standard.
[00:32:08]  And I have not lived up to that.
[00:32:10]  Oh my goodness.
[00:32:12]  Who am I?
[00:32:13]  You know, like I'm a sinful man.
[00:32:15]  Depart from me.
[00:32:16]  And then it's like, you know, gospel, right?
[00:32:18]  It's white pill.
[00:32:19]  Here's Jesus.
[00:32:20]  He actually, all those things he did for you, right?
[00:32:22]  But then the immediate response is, well, if You know, 1 John 4 19, we love because he first loved us.
[00:32:27]  Well, if he loved me freely like that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for me in the midst of my sin.
[00:32:31]  He loved me, he paid the price.
[00:32:33]  Well, then, man, I can't help but love him back.
[00:32:36]  And I want to show him my love.
[00:32:37]  So, Jesus, I love you.
[00:32:39]  What can I do to show you that I love you?
[00:32:42]  If you love me, obey my commandments.
[00:32:44]  You know, so then it's right back to the law.
[00:32:47]  And but now, fueled by grace, not trying to earn his love or earn salvation, but rather a response of gratitude for the free salvation we have by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.
[00:32:58]  And you'll fail inevitably.
[00:32:59]  And then you go back to the gospel, and then you go back to the law, and you go back to the gospel, and you go back to the.
[00:33:03]  But this idea that the law only functions in its first use initially to get a person to realize they're a sinner so that they'll get converted.
[00:33:13]  And then it's just kind of that.
[00:33:14]  And now we're no longer under law, but grace.
[00:33:18]  That is such a horrible exegesis of scripture.
[00:33:23]  But a lot of guys, like a lot of Christians, have believed that.
[00:33:26]  And people, I've just noticed people are coming out of that like in droves right now.
[00:33:31]  Like guys who say, hey, we're no longer under law, we're under grace.
[00:33:34]  Yeah, if you're a Christian, you're not under the law in terms of condemnation.
[00:33:39]  That does not mean that the law is no longer God's universal standard for morality and the light of our path and the lamp unto our feet, the direction that we should orient our lives towards.
[00:33:52]  That's not what Paul meant in Galatians when he says we're no longer under law but under grace.
[00:33:56]  He said we're no longer under law as our final judgment, as our condemnation.
[00:34:01]  We very much are still led by the law as a guide, as a compass.
[00:34:06]  And so, anybody who's preaching, you're no longer under law, but under grace, we're antinomian.
[00:34:11]  There's no place for the law here except for just to convince people who aren't saved yet that they need Jesus.
[00:34:17]  I really think those churches are going to go the way of the dodo bird and already are.
[00:34:22]  People are leaving those churches.
[00:34:24]  I think so.
[00:34:25]  And honestly, I do think, I think you kind of mentioned this a little bit earlier, but a lot of the woke stuff is an attempt to sort of fill that void.
[00:34:37]  Of the law on the back end of the gospel, kind of thing, because that's appropriate.
[00:34:41]  That's totally appropriate.
[00:34:43]  But they didn't want to fill it with God's law.
[00:34:45]  They wanted to fill it with something else.
[00:34:47]  And so that's why a lot of these churches went woke.
[00:34:50]  If you notice, a lot of the people that are like the wokest people out there, they're like these gospel centered people that before would never ever preach about the law.
[00:34:59]  And they thought that was not right.
[00:35:01]  In fact, I had a guy tell me to my face this is like a low level gospel coalition goon told me directly and said, You're never satisfied.
[00:35:11]  You're never satisfied, AD.
[00:35:12]  First, you told me that I never brought up the law.
[00:35:15]  Now I'm bringing up the law and you're against it.
[00:35:19]  And I'm like, what are you talking about?
[00:35:21]  Because what he was doing was he was misquoting the law.
[00:35:26]  He was saying things that the woke people do, let justice roll down like waters, and that means social programs.
[00:35:37]  Or forgive student debt.
[00:35:39]  Right, right.
[00:35:40]  You know what I'm talking about.
[00:35:41]  So I think a lot of the woke stuff was almost like a self conscious move.
[00:35:45]  Saying, yo, we can't just do this thing where there's no discipleship.
[00:35:52]  There's no, like, now what?
[00:35:53]  Now what do I do?
[00:35:54]  I'm saved.
[00:35:54]  What do I do now?
[00:35:55]  Like, they couldn't just stay there and say, we're gospel centered.
[00:35:59]  Nobody was buying that anymore.
[00:36:00]  So they had to do something.
[00:36:01]  And so churches decided.
[00:36:04]  And I think a lot of churches made this decision.
[00:36:06]  It's either you go woke or you've rediscovered the law.
[00:36:09]  And a lot of these guys are like Christian nationalists now.
[00:36:12]  You're right.
[00:36:13]  That used to be an 829.
[00:36:14]  You know some of these guys.
[00:36:15]  You know what I mean?
[00:36:16]  Yep.
[00:36:16]  Yep.
[00:36:17]  We talk to them regularly, you and I.
[00:36:19]  Yeah, no, that's exactly what happened.
[00:36:20]  It's like, it's the same as the new Calvinist movement, you know, like the young reformed and restless.
[00:36:27]  Like, you can basically, everybody who was young, reformed, and restless, and I was, you know, I was a little bit too young to be a part of, you know, but I was on the back end of that.
[00:36:34]  I was Acts 29 for a little bit.
[00:36:36]  All the young reformed and restless guys pretty much split right down the middle, 50 50.
[00:36:41]  50 of them apostatized, and, you know, 50%, and then 50% of them went confessionally reformed in either like 1689 or Westminster.
[00:36:50]  And more liturgical and regular principle of worship, and that kind of thing.
[00:36:56]  And most of them cessationist and kind of dropped the Wayne Gruder and John Piper kind of continuationist New Calvinism thing.
[00:37:03]  Same thing with Gospel Centered.
[00:37:06]  So this is a little bit more than just the Young Reformed and Restless Acts 29 Driscoll Chandler group.
[00:37:11]  This is like had some older guys like Keller, this is your Gospel Coalition, Nine Marks, the Gospel Centered movement.

=== Fighting Galatian Heresy Today (07:03) ===

[00:37:20]  Same thing.
[00:37:22]  They pretty much all over the last few years instinctively realized the gospel is supposed to be accompanied with God's law.
[00:37:32]  It's law and gospel, law and gospel, law and gospel.
[00:37:35]  And half of them embraced law, but it was man's law, which was antithetical to the law of God.
[00:37:43]  Social justice is, it's not that we don't like justice, we don't like social justice because it's unjust.
[00:37:49]  It's not biblical justice.
[00:37:50]  The other half, though, at first, I don't think they responded well.
[00:37:55]  Like, guys, good guys that you and I like, and you and I probably were part of this a little bit.
[00:38:02]  Our first kind of line of attack to the wokeness of embracing this law, our first line of attack, because we were so steeped in the gospel centered, you know, myopticism, our first line of attack was this is the Galatian heresy.
[00:38:17]  This is legalism.
[00:38:18]  You're adding works to the gospel.
[00:38:20]  That should have never been our line of attack.
[00:38:23]  We should not have said this is bad because it's, It's a twisting of the gospel.
[00:38:27]  It's adding works to the gospel of free grace.
[00:38:29]  It's legalism.
[00:38:30]  It's, no, that shouldn't have been.
[00:38:34]  I think we shot ourselves in the foot and we're recovering now, but I think we could have beat the woke thing probably two years faster.
[00:38:41]  I think we could have been done with this two years ago.
[00:38:43]  And now we're coming out of it, but we're coming out of it because we're finally employing the right biblical attack.
[00:38:48]  Instead of saying you're conflating the gospel and adding works to the gospel, because some guys were doing that, saying, like, if you don't believe in, And reparations, and you don't believe the gospel.
[00:38:58]  Okay, well, that's a Galatian heresy.
[00:39:00]  That's out of the question.
[00:39:01]  Oh, sure, no question.
[00:39:02]  But a lot of the woke guys weren't, the worst of them were doing that, but a lot of them weren't doing that.
[00:39:06]  They were careful enough to not conflate works with gospel.
[00:39:10]  And so then we kept insisting, well, you are inflating works with the gospel.
[00:39:14]  You are being a legalist.
[00:39:15]  When they actually weren't.
[00:39:16]  The line of attack we should have used is we should have said, the works that you're adding, you're not conflating with the gospel.
[00:39:24]  You have a distinction between gospel and works.
[00:39:25]  The problem is that the works, although distinct from the gospel, are the works of the devil.
[00:39:30]  They're demonic works.
[00:39:31]  They're not evil works.
[00:39:32]  They're not good works.
[00:39:34]  You know what I mean?
[00:39:36]  That should have been our answer.
[00:39:38]  You're dead on.
[00:39:38]  It took us two extra years, in my assessment, to like John Harris.
[00:39:44]  Is on that train now.
[00:39:45]  Like he's like done.
[00:39:46]  He wasn't always there though.
[00:39:47]  He wasn't always there.
[00:39:48]  He wasn't always there.
[00:39:49]  And so it, you know, and we could say that about John.
[00:39:52]  He'll watch this and he'll laugh because he's a good friend.
[00:39:55]  But like it took him, it took me a little, you know, I wasn't quite as much as John.
[00:39:58]  But, but anyways, it's, you know, it took us a little bit to realize, oh, wait a second.
[00:40:03]  The biggest problem with this is not a perversion of the gospel.
[00:40:07]  A perversion of the gospel is a huge problem, but a lot of guys weren't actually doing that.
[00:40:11]  You're right.
[00:40:13]  And in fairness to John, a lot of these guys, The worst of them were definitely doing that.
[00:40:18]  100%.
[00:40:18]  The worst guys were doing that.
[00:40:20]  That's true.
[00:40:20]  Yeah.
[00:40:22]  So, yeah, there were some dudes out there doing that, but not everyone.
[00:40:26]  And the ones that weren't doing it were still wrong.
[00:40:27]  Yeah.
[00:40:28]  The guys who were saying the whole gospel, they were doing it.
[00:40:32]  When you start saying the whole gospel, and the whole gospel means reparations and universal income and whatever, and you're saying this is the gospel, or that you can't be saved apart from, then that is the Galatian heresy, adding works to the gospel of grace.
[00:40:50]  And the worst guys were doing that, and John nailed them on it, and he was right.
[00:40:55]  Absolutely.
[00:40:56]  But the minions, their followers, right?
[00:40:58]  So you got a few elite guys who are doing that, but most of the guys are the followers.
[00:41:04]  And I would say the majority of guys actually weren't doing that.
[00:41:09]  They actually had a clear distinction between law and gospel.
[00:41:13]  The problem is that their law wasn't God's law, and it took us a while, I think, to figure that out.
[00:41:18]  So, anyways, all that being said, I think moving forward, You're absolutely right, though, that God used in His mercy, He used COVID, He used BLM, He used the whole woke thing from 2017, 18, 19, and then really climaxing in 2020.
[00:41:32]  I think He used that for we couldn't beat the wokeness by just saying Galatian heresy, Galatian heresy, because that didn't apply to everybody.
[00:41:41]  So then what we had to do to beat it is we actually had to go back to the law of God.
[00:41:46]  And the beauty is that now coming off of this, you've got a lot more churches like mine that preach law and gospel.
[00:41:55]  All right, that's it, guys.
[00:41:57]  I tried to warn you the time has finally arrived.
[00:41:59]  Our early bird pricing is gone.
[00:42:02]  But don't despair.
[00:42:04]  We've gone above and beyond to make this conference affordable to all.
[00:42:08]  So even now, it's only $170 for an adult.
[00:42:11]  It's cheap for teenagers and free for kids.
[00:42:14]  What am I talking about?
[00:42:15]  Well, I'm talking about the Christ is King Conference, How to Defeat Trash World.
[00:42:19]  It's happening April 3rd, 4th, and 5th, the year of our Lord 2025.
[00:42:25]  That's a Thursday.
[00:42:26]  Friday, Saturday, three full days, jam packed with eight main sessions, three panels, and an extraordinarily based lineup of speakers.
[00:42:35]  We've got Steve Dace, Orrin McIntyre, Andrew Iskert, David Reese, Stephen Wolf, Eric Kahn, John Harris, A.D. Robles, Dan Burkholder, Ben Garrett, Dusty Devers, the Christian Prince himself, and yours truly, Joel Webbett.
[00:42:51]  Sign up today.
[00:42:52]  Don't miss this conference.
[00:42:53]  And I'll give you a little bit of a secret here.
[00:42:56]  There's a couple more potential speakers in the wings.
[00:42:59]  Haven't completely confirmed yet, so I cannot disclose, but I'll say this if it happens, it's going to blow your mind.
[00:43:06]  So, register at rightresponseconference.com.
[00:43:09]  Again, that's rightresponseconference.com.
[00:43:12]  Register today.
[00:43:13]  Are you a Christian struggling to find companies that align with your values and beliefs?
[00:43:17]  Well, then Squirrelly Joe's has you covered for all your coffee needs.
[00:43:21]  All of their coffee is hand selected and roasted fresh every day by a family of fellow believers.
[00:43:27]  Try them out, and you'll savor exceptional coffee while knowing that your investment supports a company committed to following God's teachings and upholding truth.
[00:43:37]  And righteousness, ensuring that your hard earned money contributes to the growth of God's kingdom.
[00:43:43]  Stop giving your hard earned dollars to pagans who support evil.
[00:43:47]  Right Response listeners have access to an exclusive deal.
[00:43:51]  Your first bag of coffee is free.
[00:43:54]  All you have to do is cover the shipping.
[00:43:56]  So head on over to squirrelyjoes.com forward slash right response.
[00:44:01]  Again, that's squirrelyjoes.com forward slash right response to claim your first free bag of coffee today.
[00:44:10]  Visit thewordsoap.com today.
[00:44:12]  Again, that's thewordsoap.com.
[00:44:15]  Everyone needs soap, so wash yourself in the word.

=== Connecting Without Pretense (15:29) ===

[00:44:23]  Absolutely.
[00:44:23]  No, I think, and what's interesting about the two things we brought up so far, you can see sort of like there's going to be a dichotomy.
[00:44:30]  There's going to be churches that are solid that survive, and there's going to be some evil churches that survive that are doing these things, just the bizarro, like anti Christ version of it.
[00:44:39]  Right.
[00:44:40]  Bizarro Superman.
[00:44:41]  And they're going to be the regime churches, they're going to be the churches.
[00:44:44]  For, you know, essentially, you know, the people that are on Capitol Hill kind of thing, you know, that kind of thing.
[00:44:51]  And eventually they'll die out too, but that's what's going to happen.
[00:44:54]  But they'll be the bad ones that last the longest.
[00:44:56]  You're absolutely right.
[00:44:58]  And let's explore that a little bit more.
[00:44:59]  But with the third one now, the third one that I was thinking of is the third characteristic of churches that I think will last for 50 years is churches that feel old, churches that have like some kind of traditional, historic, you know, Old, tried, and true, trusted, credible sentiment.
[00:45:22]  You know, that I think as, you know, this gets into like technology, it gets into AI, it gets like as the world continues to progress and more and more things become digital, as the world becomes more digital and becomes, Michael O'Fallon would love this, you know, digital currency.
[00:45:38]  And, you know, as the world becomes more digital, digitized, and there's more things that are doctored and tweaked and twisted, I think there's going to be a yearning for what is true.
[00:45:51]  What is true?
[00:45:52]  What is true?
[00:45:53]  What is authentic?
[00:45:54]  What is real?
[00:45:55]  What can I trust?
[00:45:57]  And so, on the bad side of things, the bizarro world, you know, upside down world, but churches that mimic God's design, but in the opposite sense, but they last because they're still mimicking his design.
[00:46:09]  Like that would be the perfect example of that would be like an Episcopalian church where you're walking in with like a 400 year old Bible being carried, and there's like three altar boys with lit candles walking behind the priest.
[00:46:25]  And there's thrones up on the stage and stained glass and chandeliers hanging, and it's glorious.
[00:46:30]  It's this cathedral.
[00:46:31]  It all looks beautiful.
[00:46:32]  It looks legit.
[00:46:33]  And then the guy gives a 15 minute homily on why Paul, when he cast out the demon of the slave girl, he was wrong to do that, and whatever.
[00:46:45]  And the dude is, and the priest is actually gay and his boyfriend is sitting on the front row.
[00:46:50]  And I say that like as some random, you know, illustration, but I actually knew a priest like that when I was pastoring in California.
[00:46:58]  That's real.
[00:46:58]  Yeah.
[00:46:59]  When I was pastoring in California, we met at an Episcopalian church in the evening, and the priest was gay.
[00:47:04]  And his boyfriend would sit on the front row.
[00:47:07]  And I remember going to one of the services, and it was a 15 minute homily where he said the Apostle Paul was wrong for these reasons in this particular text.
[00:47:14]  So, anyways, all that being said, but the aesthetic looked trustworthy.
[00:47:20]  It looked, you know, and so when you're.
[00:47:22]  When you're sitting on YouTube all day, you know, and watching TikTok, and your work is in an office, bunker, underground, where you don't see the light of day, you know, no sunlight, and everything is on the computer and AI and virtual reality and all this kind of stuff, and it's progressing.
[00:47:42]  And then you can go to the sun gloriously cascading through a stained glass window of a church that's 300 years old, the building, and there's these old rituals that they've been doing for centuries.
[00:47:56]  Even though the actual content of what's being preached is antithetical to the Bible, the veneer feels legit.
[00:48:04]  It feels legitimate.
[00:48:07]  And that'll take longer to come down.
[00:48:10]  What do you think?
[00:48:11]  Yeah.
[00:48:12]  Yeah, I think that's interesting.
[00:48:13]  I also think, even besides just the aesthetic of the actual physical building and stuff like that, the liturgy actually is going to make a big difference too.
[00:48:25]  If you have a solid, somewhat ancient, You know, where you do things like, you know, you sling the Gloria Patri or you do catechisms questions, or, you know, I don't know what people are doing, but what I'm saying is like, as the world gets, at least it seems to get more chaotic, you know, at least what you see online, what you see on TV and what they push is more chaotic anyway.
[00:48:54]  I think that people are going to be attracted to having a Sunday, Lord's Day, that is predictable, that is beautiful, that is constant.
[00:49:05]  That has the feel of constants.
[00:49:07]  You know, it's like it's just this is what we've been doing for a long time.
[00:49:10]  You know, people have been singing, you know, the Glory Patri for hundreds of years.
[00:49:15]  People have been singing, you know, Doxology for however long.
[00:49:19]  You know, I don't even know when these songs were invented, but I'm just saying, like, I think people are going to be attracted to that as things get more and more chaotic, especially online, because a lot of the things that are happening online with AI and this whole idea of like trying to get people to plug into this metaverse thing, I don't know if that's ever going to work, but it's something they're trying.
[00:49:39]  You know, all this digitization of everything, it's a way to introduce all kinds of chaos.
[00:49:45]  You know what I mean?
[00:49:46]  It's just a crazy.
[00:49:48]  Anyway.
[00:49:48]  Yeah, I think you're absolutely right.
[00:49:50]  So I think people are going to be attracted to that kind of thing.
[00:49:52]  They're not going to want to go to the church where anything can happen.
[00:49:58]  There's like skits and concerts and stuff because that's just like everything else that they know.
[00:50:02]  You know what I mean?
[00:50:03]  And the world always does it better.
[00:50:05]  You know, and so, yeah.
[00:50:06]  Yeah.
[00:50:07]  Yeah, because it's just a spectacle for spectacle's sake.
[00:50:10]  It's not really like for anything.
[00:50:11]  It's just, right.
[00:50:12]  So, You're copying the spectacle in a place where it's inappropriate.
[00:50:17]  There's no way you're going to do that right.
[00:50:18]  Right.
[00:50:19]  Yep.
[00:50:19]  So I think liturgy and like that kind of feeling of a connection to the past is going to be important.
[00:50:27]  You know what I mean?
[00:50:27]  I think, and actually, a lot of the things that are happening right now, they're trying to disconnect you from the past.
[00:50:32]  They're trying to disconnect you from your ancestors.
[00:50:34]  They're tearing down the statues of your ancestors.
[00:50:38]  They're renaming buildings or renaming, you know, bridges, you know, all this stuff.
[00:50:43]  And that all is intentionally disconnecting you from your history.
[00:50:46]  And I think that there's, going to be pushed back there for sure.
[00:50:49]  Yep.
[00:50:50]  I agree.
[00:50:50]  So, as a recap, the three things, you know, one is guys who believe engaging the culture, the world, politics, society matters, and that you could actually experience success.
[00:51:01]  And it doesn't necessarily, you know, necessitate that you're post millennial and your eschatology.
[00:51:06]  But if you think Jesus is coming back in 20,000 years or in 20 years, the post millennial believes the trajectory overall is up, but there are dips along the way.
[00:51:17]  The disby pre mill guy, you know, on the opposite, you know, of the spectrum of eschatology, he believes a check.
[00:51:22]  Trajectory is down overall, but even he believes there could be spikes along the way.
[00:51:27]  And so, anybody who believes that even from a dispy pre male standpoint, anybody, regardless of eschatology, if they believe that engaging the culture matters, that pietism be damned, engaging the culture matters, and that it could actually be successful, that our engagement, it matters because it actually, by God's grace, could make a difference.
[00:51:48]  I think that's going to be a big factor.
[00:51:51]  The second one, law and gospel, not just Jesus was Jesus, so that you don't have to be Jesus.
[00:51:58]  Thank God for Jesus.
[00:51:59]  Let's go home.
[00:52:01]  But no, here's the law.
[00:52:02]  Here's how you're a sinner.
[00:52:03]  Here's Jesus.
[00:52:04]  This is how he fulfilled it.
[00:52:05]  In light of his free gift of grace for you, fulfilling the law in your place, you now love him as a response.
[00:52:11]  Those who love him will obey him, and he has commandments, and here they are.
[00:52:16]  And so, in gratitude, not trying to earn his salvation, but in response of gratitude for his salvation, we're seeking to obey in order to demonstrate our love.
[00:52:25]  We show our love to Christ through obedience.
[00:52:28]  If you love me, you will.
[00:52:29]  Obey me.
[00:52:30]  So, preaching law and gospel, particularly the third use of the law, not just the first that reveals that you need the gospel, but then the third use of the law as a response to the gospel.
[00:52:38]  And then the third thing is churches that have some kind of history, some kind of tradition.
[00:52:46]  I think confessional churches will do particularly well.
[00:52:51]  I think the building, the cathedral, if you got it, great.
[00:52:53]  Praise God for that.
[00:52:55]  But I think if you're meeting in a barn, like a Western hoedown country line dancing place where I'm currently meeting in Wahlberg, Texas, With cows around and stuff like that.
[00:53:07]  But having a robust liturgical worship service, which we have, it's simple church in terms of the aesthetics.
[00:53:15]  I think aesthetics matter, angels in the architecture, I'm down for that.
[00:53:18]  But it's just what we have right now in the providence of God, and we're grateful for what we have.
[00:53:22]  But even if it's simple church in terms of the building, you can still have robust, historic, rooted, grounded church in terms of just your liturgy and your worship, your order of worship, and the way that you preach.
[00:53:37]  Those kinds of things.
[00:53:38]  And I think that with technological advances and people constantly pulling the wool over you, institutions constantly, everybody's lying to you all the time.
[00:53:46]  People are lying to you.
[00:53:48]  So to have something that feels rooted and timeless and tried and tested and true will go a long way.
[00:53:54]  So I think those are the three things that I thought of.
[00:53:57]  Any final thoughts on that or final word?
[00:54:00]  I think all of these things, you know, when you think about them all together, I think people are going to be looking and they're already doing this looking for.
[00:54:10]  Like an authenticity to everything.
[00:54:13]  You know what I mean?
[00:54:13]  Like, I know lots of people still go to mega churches.
[00:54:16]  I don't think that that kind of thing is going to survive into the future.
[00:54:21]  And one of the big reasons is because it's very difficult to do the community thing or even to be quite honest.
[00:54:30]  Like, it's very difficult to even really pastor people or even do the basic stuff right in that context.
[00:54:40]  I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's very difficult.
[00:54:43]  And so, and I think that a lot of, I think automatically some of the kind of like traditional feel of church goes out the window when you have 10,000 people in your church, you know, and video screens everywhere like a stadium.
[00:54:57]  So, anyway, all that to say is that I think people are going to, the stuff on, look, internet is part of real life.
[00:55:05]  I'm not going to say this, do the thing where it's like internet's not real life.
[00:55:09]  But with AI content creators and, you know, All kinds of lying content creators.
[00:55:15]  There's like a, there's one, there's one common carnivore diet content creator that presents themselves as a man, but it's actually a woman.
[00:55:23]  Oh, okay.
[00:55:24]  Okay.
[00:55:25]  And anyway, whatever.
[00:55:26]  Like the point is, like, there's all kinds of lying going on and deceptions and things like that.
[00:55:31]  People are going to, I think, rebel against that to some degree.
[00:55:35]  And they're going to, they're still going to consume online content, of course.
[00:55:38]  But the voices that are too easily manipulated by or copied by AI.
[00:55:44]  Like, you know, if I type in AI right now, ChatGPT, you know, give me an article about the latest event, you know, in the style of Gospel Coalition, it will be identical to what you'll find from Gospel Coalition.
[00:55:54]  That's going to go the way of the dodo.
[00:55:56]  Nobody's going to want that anymore.
[00:55:57]  They're going to want, you know, more authentic style online content.
[00:56:03]  But I think they're also going to want just in real life people, real life people that they could hang out with, that they could grab a beer with if you're Presbyterian, if you're, you know, if you're Baptist, maybe grab a grape juice or something like that.
[00:56:14]  We have wine for the Lord's Supper.
[00:56:15]  Because we're biblical and I drink beer.
[00:56:17]  And you know this, AD, we have drank beer together.
[00:56:19]  I do know this.
[00:56:20]  That's why I said it.
[00:56:21]  But I'm one of the minorities.
[00:56:22]  I admit that.
[00:56:23]  I admit.
[00:56:25]  Anyway, but my point is like, they're going to want to have people that, you know, they're serious about the Lord, but there's as little pretense as possible.
[00:56:36]  I think sometimes, you know, I'm not saying this is true of every mega church.
[00:56:39]  I've never been to every mega church, but when I go to mega churches, you know, you've got the greeting team and you've got this, and everything seems very contrived.
[00:56:47]  Now, every church usually has that.
[00:56:49]  They'll have someone that goes up to new people.
[00:56:52]  But when it's in a smaller context, it just does not feel the same.
[00:56:56]  You know what I mean?
[00:56:57]  It does not feel the same.
[00:56:58]  Have you ever visited a smaller church where you kind of had the idea that, oh, this is the guy that they send to new folks to talk to them?
[00:57:06]  It's different.
[00:57:07]  It's different from a mega church to a smaller church.
[00:57:10]  Anyway, I think all this stuff is all about human connections and authentic connections because what we get online and what they're trying to push on us is all inauthentic.
[00:57:20]  I mean, even down to like the sexuality, like they're trying to push transsexuals.
[00:57:24]  That's inauthentic, obviously.
[00:57:26]  To say the best about it, it's inauthentic.
[00:57:29]  Right.
[00:57:30]  Yep.
[00:57:31]  I think that that's the common denominator with all the things you just said, you know?
[00:57:35]  Yeah.
[00:57:36]  You're absolutely right.
[00:57:37]  I think one thing on the mega churches, I was just thinking, you know, mega churches really became a thing in the Bible Belt and Southern California would be another hotspot.
[00:57:48]  But mega churches became like the church growth movement, Bill Heibels, you know, like large.
[00:57:53]  Like, I mean, technically, you know, like Charles Spurgeon, you could argue that he had a mega church, the, you know, the London metropolitan tabernacle.
[00:58:00]  Like, so there have been some big churches.
[00:58:03]  I think the church of Antioch was probably pretty big, the church in Jerusalem.
[00:58:06]  So, like, I'm not, you know, neither you nor I are philosophically inherently against mega churches.
[00:58:11]  But in terms of mega churches being so common, a dime a dozen, that's relatively new, a new phenomenon that you can track back to pretty much the 80s and 90s.
[00:58:21]  However, what I was going to say is that one thing that's radically changed, Is the internet.
[00:58:29]  That a lot of reason why the mega church appealed to people is because they wanted to be able to slip in and slip out and have an experience without the community.
[00:58:40]  They didn't go to a mega church because they wanted a community with 10,000 people.
[00:58:44]  You go to a context of 10,000 people because you don't want community, because you're just a number.
[00:58:50]  You can't go to a church of 75 people and show it 15 minutes late and not be noticed for being late.
[00:58:56]  You know what I mean?
[00:58:58]  You better be on time.
[00:58:59]  And you also, if Things are uncomfortable, or you don't like it, or you're bored, or whatever, like you can't slip out without it being kind of.
[00:59:06]  Well, I'll tell you, this is, I'm sorry to interrupt you, but this is, and it's not from, it's not typically, well, maybe it could be from a place of judgment, but I'll tell you right, one time recently, I was, I have a new church.
[00:59:18]  I don't know if I told everyone in the audience this.
[00:59:21]  Oh, yeah, you gotta tell me this.
[00:59:21]  You know, just a local church just in my town.
[00:59:24]  So I was driving an hour, it was a great church, but it was an hour away, you know?
[00:59:28]  So anyway, so we just started going to this church.
[00:59:31]  And my family was out of town.
[00:59:33]  I even forget where they were doing, but I was all alone.
[00:59:37]  And so I went to church that day and I just started feeling really ill, you know, in the middle of the service.
[00:59:43]  And so I just skedaddled, right?
[00:59:46]  And I'll never forget it.
[00:59:47]  Like, I got a text after church was over from my buddy.
[00:59:51]  It's like, dude, I saw you leave.

=== Finding Closer Community Spaces (07:13) ===

[00:59:53]  Are you all right?
[00:59:54]  And it wasn't from a place of judgment.
[00:59:55]  It's like, is everything okay, kind of thing?
[00:59:58]  He saw me because there's only like 50 people at that church.
[01:00:00]  Right, exactly.
[01:00:01]  Well, and that's what I'm saying.
[01:00:02]  So my point is like, pairing that with the internet.
[01:00:06]  When the mega church movement, church growth movement, Bill Heibels, that kind of thing, Saddleback, you know, like when that really was becoming a thing, and praise God, Saddleback, you know, was just voted out of the SBC.
[01:00:15]  And so that, you know, that's hopeful.
[01:00:17]  There's a lot more.
[01:00:17]  Such a white pill, man.
[01:00:18]  That's great news.
[01:00:19]  But it's great news.
[01:00:20]  Let's take it and celebrate the Lord.
[01:00:22]  But with that, you know, when that was becoming a thing, the mega church growth movement thing was really lifting off.
[01:00:30]  You did not like, yeah, sure, like maybe the internet was a little bit after that coming on the scene, but it wasn't like it is now.
[01:00:38]  It was not, podcasting was not a thing.
[01:00:42]  YouTube was not a thing.
[01:00:44]  And all those things are getting better.
[01:00:46]  YouTube's getting better.
[01:00:48]  Streaming services are getting better.
[01:00:49]  Twitter, you can do Twitter spaces now.
[01:00:51]  And so, my point is if that's all somebody wants is just an experience.
[01:00:58]  And typically, the person who goes to a megachurch wants the invisible experience, the unnoticed, slipping in unnoticed experience.
[01:01:06]  My point is that the type of person who goes to a megachurch, I'm not saying they're going to leave a mega church and find a small church.
[01:01:13]  I'm saying they're just not going to go to church at all.
[01:01:15]  I think that over the next few years, that person, they're just going to listen to YouTube, right?
[01:01:22]  They're just going to watch YouTube.
[01:01:23]  They're going to listen to podcasts.
[01:01:24]  They're going to be following the church.
[01:01:26]  Because really, there's no difference.
[01:01:27]  There's no difference.
[01:01:28]  That's my point.
[01:01:29]  From their perspective.
[01:01:30]  Exactly.
[01:01:30]  Exactly.
[01:01:31]  And so, my point is that I think now, like the internet and all these spaces, these little virtual communities, pseudo communities online have become so.
[01:01:41]  Dialed in and have improved so much in terms of content, experience, being able in the chats and stuff like that to engage with people and talk as you're listening.
[01:01:54]  Why get out of bed?
[01:01:55]  And so I think that the only thing the megachurch is going to become extinct.
[01:02:02]  I really do.
[01:02:02]  I think that the only thing that's going to endure is when I'm thinking I got to get out of bed.
[01:02:11]  For me, it's I need to worship the Lord.
[01:02:13]  I need to lead my wife and children.
[01:02:14]  I also need a paycheck.
[01:02:15]  It's my job.
[01:02:16]  You know, so there's, you know, my situation is a little bit, but the person, the average person who's a member at Covenant Bible Church, the church that I pastor in Central Texas, when they show up, they're showing up because they're thinking it's the Lord's Day.
[01:02:32]  And I need to take the supper, I need to eat the bread, I need to drink the wine, I need to sing and address one another, not just God, that I can do privately while listening to a worship CD or CDs aren't even a thing anymore, worship, whatever.
[01:02:48]  You know, but like a song on Alexa, you know, whatever at home.
[01:02:52]  But no, I'm commanded to address one another, the saints, with psalms, hymns, and spiritual.
[01:02:57]  So I need to sing to people.
[01:02:59]  I need to eat bread, drink wine, renew.
[01:03:03]  It's a covenantal renewal ceremony.
[01:03:05]  I need to renew the covenant.
[01:03:06]  I've broken the covenant this last week, renew the covenant with the Lord, remember my baptism.
[01:03:12]  And I need my kids and my wife to be washed in the word, to be physically present there.
[01:03:18]  Um, I, you know, those, those, and I need to, uh, check up on these people that I love and that I know and shake their, I need to touch them and shake their hand and ask them, how are you doing?
[01:03:28]  And go to lunch with them and blah, blah, blah.
[01:03:30]  And, uh, I think like that's, that will never get replaced.
[01:03:34]  The metaverse cannot replace, there's no substitute for that.
[01:03:37]  That will never go anywhere.
[01:03:38]  That's Jesus' model.
[01:03:40]  And it, and if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
[01:03:42]  So that's going nowhere.
[01:03:43]  Uh, but you look at the average mega church, seeker sensitive kind of church experience.
[01:03:48]  And I'm looking at that, and then I'm looking at Twitter spaces, and I'm looking at Jordan Peterson lectures with the Daily Wire, and I'm thinking, Megachurch has a short expiration date.
[01:04:01]  That thing ain't going to last much longer.
[01:04:04]  Yeah, this has been interesting, though.
[01:04:05]  I honestly haven't really considered too much about what kinds of churches will actually make it.
[01:04:13]  They're going to make it.
[01:04:14]  This is interesting.
[01:04:15]  I think there's some good stuff here.
[01:04:17]  Cool.
[01:04:17]  Well, thanks so much for coming on the show, Ad.
[01:04:19]  And let our listeners know how they can follow you.
[01:04:22]  Yeah, like I said, YouTube, Fight Laugh Feast.
[01:04:25]  You can just type in my name, AD Robles.
[01:04:28]  And I'm on Twitter at AD Robles Media and also Gab.
[01:04:33]  Same handle there.
[01:04:34]  Cool.
[01:04:35]  All right.
[01:04:36]  Hey, the church that you found, did you find a Presbyterian church?
[01:04:39]  No.
[01:04:40]  It's Baptist again.
[01:04:42]  It's Baptist again.
[01:04:43]  Yeah.
[01:04:43]  That's hilarious.
[01:04:45]  There's a Presbyterian church pretty close that we were going to go to, but they went super crazy, COVID Nazi and a little bit woke.
[01:04:52]  So not going to fly.
[01:04:54]  Yeah, we've got plenty of Presbyterians in our church because some of them went woke, but a couple of them didn't go woke.
[01:05:01]  But they so overreacted to COVID.
[01:05:05]  Yeah, that's a big thing in Presbyterian circles the COVID overreacted.
[01:05:08]  It really is, man.
[01:05:09]  Yeah, this got so bad that they weren't even singing.
[01:05:12]  They didn't even sing.
[01:05:13]  They said, well, you just got to hum to yourself because you don't want to get the aspirate.
[01:05:16]  Exactly.
[01:05:17]  That's exactly what this church in town, they're OPC, they're not woke, but yeah, same thing.
[01:05:24]  They bifurcated, they went to two services.
[01:05:27]  Intentionally, not because they had so many people, but they had a mask required service and then a mask optional service.
[01:05:33]  But then, you know, the mask service, there was no singing allowed in that service.
[01:05:39]  And so, you know, and so people just saw that, you know, and it's, you know, and I'm talking like it's 2021 now.
[01:05:46]  We're getting closer to 2022, and that's still going on.
[01:05:50]  And so people are like, all right, well, yeah, Joel's not going to baptize our infants.
[01:05:53]  And so we got to figure that out.
[01:05:55]  You know, we'll get them baptized in the middle of the night by some Presbyterian minister, but we're going to go to a church that.
[01:06:01]  We're going to go to a church that has some faith and some spine.
[01:06:04]  Yeah.
[01:06:05]  So, yeah.
[01:06:06]  100%.
[01:06:06]  Yeah.
[01:06:07]  But it's a solid little church.
[01:06:08]  And I'm pretty excited to have a five minute drive.
[01:06:12]  And I can actually hang out with people.
[01:06:13]  In fact, we did last Sunday.
[01:06:14]  We hung out with people after church because we didn't have an hour drive back home, you know?
[01:06:19]  Yeah.
[01:06:20]  That's awesome.
[01:06:20]  How long did you go to the other church, the one that was an hour away?
[01:06:23]  How long were you there?
[01:06:24]  Yeah, for like four or five years.
[01:06:26]  Oh, God.
[01:06:27]  I've been telling them that I'm leaving to go closer to home for like three years.
[01:06:32]  But they were probably still really sad when you finally pulled the trigger.
[01:06:36]  Yes, they definitely were.
[01:06:38]  And they didn't believe me because I'd just been saying it for three years, you know?
[01:06:42]  Right.
[01:06:42]  But finally we did it.
[01:06:44]  And I had a chance to preach there one last time.
[01:06:46]  And I'm sure we'll be back up for like, you know, Picnics or things like that because they're a solid group of people.
[01:06:52]  It was a really kind of a bittersweet thing for us, to be honest, but you know, had to happen.
[01:06:56]  Well, enjoy this church for you know, six months or so until you move down here and join Covenant Bible Church.
[01:07:03]  Well, God bless, man.
[01:07:04]  All right, later.
[01:07:06]  Take care.