NXR Podcast - THE INTERVIEW - Christian Unity While Disagreeing About Donald Trump
Aired: 2024-10-21
Duration: 01:51:47


=== Priesthood and Covenant Change (15:16) ===

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[00:00:42]  Applying God's Word to every aspect of life.
[00:00:45]  This is Theology Applied.
[00:00:53]  All right, welcome back to another episode of Theology Applied.
[00:00:57]  I am your host, Pastor Joel Webben with Right Response Ministries.
[00:00:59]  In this episode, I'm welcoming back to the show Mr. David Reese.
[00:01:03]  I should also say, Pastor David Reese.
[00:01:06]  David, welcome to the show and remind us real quick the name of your church that you pastor.
[00:01:10]  Thanks, brother.
[00:01:11]  Appreciate you having me on.
[00:01:12]  Puritan Reformed Church in Phoenix, Arizona.
[00:01:16]  Puritan Reformed Church in Phoenix, Arizona.
[00:01:18]  What's the web address if anybody wants to check you out?
[00:01:21]  Puritan.Church.
[00:01:22]  Puritan.Church.
[00:01:24]  And you are also the CEO of Armored Republic?
[00:01:28]  Yes.
[00:01:28]  And I've got a, it's part of a set of businesses.
[00:01:33]  I have basically an investment plan where people are able to invest called Reese Fund.
[00:01:38]  Where I purchase companies that are sort of in that smaller 50 to 200 employee range.
[00:01:46]  And my goal is to build them out as Christian companies where they're able to both internally and externally be able to display Christian principles and to be able to have a culture where people can be Christian and to make it so that those are able to also be used to help to pull together capital, to be able to do all sorts of work that needs to be done in terms of seeing Christian civilization built.
[00:02:11]  Christendom built out.
[00:02:13]  And by the way, I'm excited that I'll be able to, I was invited to be able to speak at Fight Laugh Feast this year to be able to talk about building Christendom.
[00:02:24]  So I'll be sharing all sorts of impolitic things during that presentation.
[00:02:30]  Great.
[00:02:31]  Awesome.
[00:02:32]  All right.
[00:02:32]  Well, in this episode, we want to talk a little bit more.
[00:02:36]  I've done this a few times at this point, but it is the talk of the town.
[00:02:42]  We've got an election coming up November 5th.
[00:02:44]  And that is the big goings on right now in America.
[00:02:51]  I think as we're recording this, and we plan to release this on Monday, so just a few days from now, so less than a week.
[00:03:00]  But as we're recording this, I think just yesterday or perhaps the day before, there was potentially a third, not first or second, but third attempt on Donald Trump's life, I think, with an assassination.
[00:03:15]  Just, I mean, 2024 is proving to be quite the year.
[00:03:20]  So we've got the election coming out.
[00:03:22]  You and I take different positions on this in terms of Christians and their duty and voting in a national federal election.
[00:03:30]  We have a lot in common, but on this issue, we are on different sides of the aisle and we want to talk about it.
[00:03:38]  Absolutely.
[00:03:39]  And I think it is, I think that the big question that people have to be able to answer is, Is basically, how do you know who is permissible to vote for?
[00:03:50]  Right.
[00:03:50]  And so, is there some standard?
[00:03:52]  Is it what does what has God said on the subject?
[00:03:55]  And has he left it to be an entirely prudential thing, or is there some sort of a standard to be applied?
[00:03:59]  And are there emergency ropes to pull for different scenarios?
[00:04:05]  So I think those are the questions that really are where the rubber meets the road.
[00:04:08]  Yep.
[00:04:10]  Agreed.
[00:04:10]  Okay.
[00:04:11]  So let's go ahead and start there.
[00:04:12]  Let's start with the standard, Exodus 18.
[00:04:15]  I can feel it coming.
[00:04:16]  Great.
[00:04:17]  If you want to open it up and read it.
[00:04:19]  Great.
[00:04:20]  So Exodus 18, verse 21, the broader context here is you have already in Exodus 18, you know, Basically, Jethro, Moses' father in law, comes to Moses.
[00:04:35]  And one of the things that you start out with is that the fact that there are already some sort of elders that exist in Israel.
[00:04:42]  You see that earlier on in Exodus.
[00:04:45]  The elders are dealt with in terms of interacting with the people as representatives of the people.
[00:04:49]  So you go, what are these elders that already exist?
[00:04:53]  And I don't think that the Egyptians had lesser magistrates for the Israelites.
[00:04:57]  I don't think they were giving them.
[00:04:59]  Judges that wielded the sword.
[00:05:01]  These elders were ecclesiastical judges.
[00:05:05]  So they are essentially, this is a synagogue system.
[00:05:08]  People pretend that the synagogue system was invented during the Babylonian captivity.
[00:05:13]  It is not the case.
[00:05:14]  God has always had his people meet in assembly to worship him.
[00:05:19]  And you see that the idea of elders occurring back in the beginning of Exodus.
[00:05:25]  You get to Exodus 18 and you have Jethro approaching.
[00:05:30]  And basically, you have Moses and Aaron and elders meeting, and they have a covenantal meal and a sacrifice with Jethro.
[00:05:38]  And so, again, in an ecclesiastical context, you're having church officers meeting with Jethro and sharing in this covenant meal.
[00:05:48]  Jethro is a priest, not according to Leviticus, not according to the Levitical order, it hadn't been established yet.
[00:05:56]  He's a priest after the order of Melchizedek.
[00:05:59]  He's a priest with the Noahic administration.
[00:06:03]  And he is doing the.
[00:06:05]  Real quick, pause on that.
[00:06:07]  Jethro, Midianite, right?
[00:06:10]  Wasn't Jeth?
[00:06:11]  I thought he was a Midianite priest.
[00:06:15]  So you're placing him in the order of Melchizedek.
[00:06:18]  I don't think I've heard this approach before.
[00:06:20]  Where did you get that from?
[00:06:23]  I read the text and went, he's a lawful priest.
[00:06:26]  I didn't know if there was a particular theologian that you could cite.
[00:06:30]  I haven't heard it before.
[00:06:31]  Go ahead.
[00:06:32]  I'm interested.
[00:06:32]  So I'm thinking about, you think about this, right?
[00:06:34]  You have the administrations of the covenant.
[00:06:36]  Right.
[00:06:36]  And you think about the covenant of grace, you've got in Genesis 3, animal sacrifice and clothing are ceremonial laws that are instituted.
[00:06:45]  The next administration that you're going to find is you're going to find a Noahic change of the way the sacrifices work.
[00:06:54]  Animal sacrifice turns into a thing where you get to eat the animals.
[00:06:57]  I mean, like, way better, right?
[00:06:58]  Like, this sounds like animal sacrifices went from, like, what are we doing to this is awesome.
[00:07:03]  It's now a party.
[00:07:03]  We get to eat the animals.
[00:07:06]  So then you go to.
[00:07:09]  You go to Abraham and you have circumcision, but there's not a change of the priesthood.
[00:07:15]  It's sort of the same system of sacrifice and everything.
[00:07:20]  And you get to Abraham, he's interacting with Melchizedek, and the Melchizedekian priesthood is outside of being Hebrew or being at least Abrahamic, right?
[00:07:30]  Because it's a different line.
[00:07:32]  And so you got Job, Abraham, Melchizedek are all sort of these king like figures who also are performing priestly functions.
[00:07:41]  And so then by the time you get to Moses, if Jethro is a lawful priest of God, it's got to be according to this sort of the Melchizedekian order, or in other words, the Noahic order, the administration coming through Noah.
[00:07:56]  I think, and I could be wrong, but I think I just always assumed that he was a Midianite priest.
[00:08:03]  He is.
[00:08:03]  Like a pagan priest, like Midianite, like a different God, serving a different God, but Moses married his daughter.
[00:08:13]  And that the family, through Moses and that marriage covenant, that the family, not only the daughter, now Moses' wife, but that essentially her father in law and the rest of the family as well converted to worship of the triune God.
[00:08:29]  So, Exodus 18, verse 12, we have Jethro, and he's not just, Jethro is performing these sacrifices, he's acting as a priest here.
[00:08:39]  So, Exodus 18, verse 12, then Jethro, Moses' father in law, took a burnt offering and other sacrifices to offer to God.
[00:08:48]  How long, okay?
[00:08:50]  Point well taken.
[00:08:54]  Point well taken.
[00:08:55]  But how long, I guess my question would be at this point, how long has, you know, Jethro been, at what point in the Exodus are we?
[00:09:05]  Because if it's been, my point is, if it's been 20 years, for instance, give or take, then at that point, Jethro could have, you know, he could have been the follower of Yahweh for 20 years by this point.
[00:09:19]  And so now, you know, he's, you know, He's converted a long time ago.
[00:09:23]  He's been following Yahweh for a very long time.
[00:09:27]  And so he's performing certain priestly functions within the Levitical priesthood because he's no longer a Midianite priest.
[00:09:36]  He's abandoned his false gods and been fully converted for a couple of decades.
[00:09:41]  Sure.
[00:09:41]  So this is going to be 40 years.
[00:09:44]  So Moses runs away, right?
[00:09:46]  He goes to Midian.
[00:09:48]  And then he's about 40 then.
[00:09:50]  And then he's about 80 when he's called by God.
[00:09:55]  So he's been interacting with Jethro for 40 years.
[00:09:57]  He early on marries Jethro's daughter.
[00:10:02]  And so he's called a priest of Midian.
[00:10:06]  Moses goes to his house.
[00:10:08]  He's working for him, all that stuff.
[00:10:11]  And so then in Exodus 18, in Exodus 18, verse 12, where Jethro offers the sacrifice, this is before the establishment of the Levitical priesthood.
[00:10:25]  And so, even if he was converted by Moses, let's say Moses comes to him basically as a missionary, right?
[00:10:32]  And he ends up converting, then the priesthood under which Jethro would be offering sacrifice would have to be the pre Levitical priesthood.
[00:10:46]  Okay.
[00:10:47]  So, Jethro comes and he gives, he looks at the situation.
[00:10:53]  Moses is judging people all day, and this is in his civil magistracy function.
[00:10:58]  And so Moses is interesting because he's basically a prophet priest king.
[00:11:04]  But it's a pre kingship thing, it's a temporary thing, it's sort of the dictatorship of the proletariat by God style, where he's coming in as a monarchical leader, hands that over to Joshua, and then that monarchical leadership office disappears after the emergency military situation and settlement.
[00:11:23]  And so from that point forward, it's sort of the Sanhedrin, the civil Sanhedrin.
[00:11:29]  That's governing.
[00:11:30]  But sorry, so when that gets established here, this idea of the graded system of civil courts.
[00:11:37]  So we get here, Moses' father in law is like, What are you doing?
[00:11:40]  You're judging people all day.
[00:11:41]  This is bad.
[00:11:42]  This is too much for you.
[00:11:45]  And so he's saying that there's a need for some sort of change.
[00:11:52]  So, verse 17 Moses' father in law said to him, The thing that you do is not good.
[00:11:57]  Both you and these people who are with you will surely wear yourselves out.
[00:12:01]  For this thing is too much for you.
[00:12:02]  You are not able to perform it by yourself.
[00:12:05]  Listen now to my voice.
[00:12:07]  I will give you counsel, and God will be with you.
[00:12:11]  Stand before God for the people, so that you may bring the difficulties to God.
[00:12:16]  And you shall teach them the statutes and the laws, and show them the way in which they must walk and the work they must do.
[00:12:23]  Verse 21.
[00:12:24]  Moreover, you shall select from all the people able men, such as fear God.
[00:12:31]  Men of truth, hating covetousness, and place such over them to be rulers of thousands, rulers of hundreds, rulers of fifties and rulers of tens, and let them judge the people at all times.
[00:12:41]  Then it will be that every great matter they shall bring to you, But every small matter they themselves shall judge.
[00:12:48]  So it will be easier for you, for they will bear the burden with you.
[00:12:53]  If you do this thing, and God so commands you, then you will be able to endure, and all this people will also go to their place in peace.
[00:13:04]  And then Moses heeds him.
[00:13:05]  So he's saying God's going to bless, and he says that God commands this.
[00:13:11]  And so he's a prophet, right?
[00:13:13]  He's a lawful priest that these guys eat with.
[00:13:17]  They have a covenant meal with and participate in these sacrifices.
[00:13:21]  And he's a prophet bringing this commandment.
[00:13:24]  And so that's why I think Jethro, a priest after the order of Melchizedek, is a guy who's fulfilling this prophetic role.
[00:13:34]  Bringing this to Moses, and this is a part of the granting of the constitution of the civil order of Israel.
[00:13:41]  Okay.
[00:13:41]  So, those qualifications will get listed out.
[00:13:43]  We've got six qualifications.
[00:13:45]  It's somebody from among you, right?
[00:13:47]  So, it's a citizen of your own nation.
[00:13:50]  It's a man, so a male, an adult male.
[00:13:53]  Real quick, go back to the first one, real quick.
[00:13:55]  I'm curious what's your opinion of civil rulers who have dual citizenship?
[00:14:02]  Dual citizenship.
[00:14:05]  I mean, typically, I'll be honest, it's typically going to be Israel and the U.S. I'm not a huge fan, but I'm curious.
[00:14:13]  I think, I just think it splits allegiances, loyalties.
[00:14:17]  Yeah.
[00:14:18]  So if you have a covenant where you have a duty of obligation to some civil authority, right?
[00:14:25]  That's what citizenship is it's being covenanted with that civil authority.
[00:14:30]  If you are in that covenant, that would sort of like be like having church membership at two churches or being a You know, a part of two households.
[00:14:41]  Right.
[00:14:42]  It's something that seems mutually exclusive unless it's a subordinate portion, right?
[00:14:50]  So I can be a citizen of Arizona, you can be a citizen of Texas, and we can both be citizens of a federated union.
[00:14:56]  So unless the other citizenship is a subordinated citizenship, then I think it would be a contradictory thing.
[00:15:05]  Okay.
[00:15:09]  So we have from among you, so he has to be a citizen.
[00:15:12]  He has to be a man, an adult male.
[00:15:15]  And then Abel is Kail.

=== Competent Leadership Qualifications (05:43) ===

[00:15:16]  So the phrase for an able man is Ish Kail, which is the man of valor, as normally how this translated.
[00:15:22]  And so Ish Gabor Kail is the mighty man of valor.
[00:15:26]  And so, this idea of the Kail, I think, is about competency, the display of being decisive in business and decisive in battle.
[00:15:35]  It's like Boaz is listed as one example.
[00:15:38]  You have lots of guys that are called that, you know, David's Mighty Men of Valor, all that.
[00:15:42]  So, he's got to be from among you, he's got to be a man, he's got to be competent, and he has to fear God, which I take to mean is a credible profession of faith.
[00:15:52]  I'd be curious when we get to that piece, what you view that as.
[00:15:56]  And then he has to love truth.
[00:15:58]  And he has to hate covetousness or be a man of truth and hate covetousness.
[00:16:02]  So, those are the six qualifications laid out in Exodus 18 21.
[00:16:05]  I don't see any of those as being particular to Israel.
[00:16:09]  And so, when we look at it as a civil law, the general equity is going to be such that, okay, well, they don't have to be Israelites.
[00:16:17]  They have to be from whatever country it is, right?
[00:16:19]  Of course.
[00:16:20]  And so, I see these six things as having general equity that applies to all the nations.
[00:16:25]  And it's just not Israel, whatever nation.
[00:16:27]  What's the general equity of being a man?
[00:16:30]  The general equity of being a man is being a man.
[00:16:32]  Amen.
[00:16:33]  Pastor Reverend.
[00:16:34]  Yes, sir.
[00:16:35]  Yeah.
[00:16:36]  Amen.
[00:16:36]  Love it.
[00:16:38]  Okay.
[00:16:38]  So, brother, what would you say is the general equity of being competent?
[00:16:42]  Competent.
[00:16:43]  Okay.
[00:16:43]  I mean, so far, we're like, we're batting like 100 here.
[00:16:47]  That's what I, you know, it's funny.
[00:16:49]  Tithing, that line of rhetoric usually comes up with when people are like, well, I don't know if I, you know, I don't know if the New Testament, and I was like, well, you know, what's the general equity of 10%?
[00:17:01]  You know, it's like, it's kind of 10%.
[00:17:04]  Now, that being said, I do appreciate what Rush Dooney says in terms of the church does a lot less than it used to and that it should.
[00:17:12]  But part of that is because the church forfeited and abdicated and, you know, and the state has taken upon itself to do all those things.
[00:17:19]  You know, you can always trust the state to do them poorly.
[00:17:21]  But, anyways, but yeah, those kind of things.
[00:17:24]  There are some things where it's like a parapet on the roof might mean speed limits on the highway.
[00:17:32]  But some things, like, It's just important for New Testament Christians to get that through their head to understand that some things, the general equity of maleness is maleness, right?
[00:17:41]  Like that just doesn't.
[00:17:43]  So, anyways, back to you.
[00:17:45]  Yeah, I think that's right.
[00:17:46]  I think what is general equity?
[00:17:47]  We like to make it into this like mystical thing.
[00:17:49]  It's like, what I feel applies, you know, and it's like, no, that's not what general equity means.
[00:17:54]  General equity is the principles that are common to all the nations, the common law, the principle of justice.
[00:17:59]  So, it's obvious in scripture that being ruled by women or children is considered a curse.
[00:18:06]  And being ruled by men is the fitting thing.
[00:18:08]  And particular types of men is who you should be ruled by.
[00:18:12]  It's not just any man, right?
[00:18:14]  We've got other stuff that's supposed to be the things that you're looking for in men.
[00:18:18]  But that's one of the sort criteria that makes it easy.
[00:18:21]  You go, oh, okay.
[00:18:22]  So man or not a man?
[00:18:23]  Okay, fairly.
[00:18:24]  And apparently the Bible thinks that there is such a distinction between a man and not a man.
[00:18:28]  Another thing that our insane society is not willing to admit.
[00:18:33]  Right, right.
[00:18:34]  Yes.
[00:18:35]  So if we get to this and we're thinking about the particular election that we're dealing with right now, We start to go, okay, so I'm happy to admit that President Donald Trump, by the way, he was president, and frankly, I think that he is the lawful president from the last election.
[00:18:54]  I agree.
[00:18:55]  But I also didn't think he was qualified.
[00:18:57]  So there's an important distinction between who is the valid or lawful president and then there's qualification, right?
[00:19:03]  So you can have a guy who's not qualified, and you still got to acknowledge him as a lawful ruler if he's lawfully elected and lawfully put into office.
[00:19:11]  Right.
[00:19:13]  So, there are certain things that qualify that give justification for resistance or the removal of a person.
[00:19:18]  That's different.
[00:19:19]  That's a different bar than who's qualified to be voted for.
[00:19:23]  That's a good distinction.
[00:19:24]  Yeah.
[00:19:26]  So we have, he's, you know, President Trump is from among us.
[00:19:29]  He's a citizen.
[00:19:30]  President Trump is a man.
[00:19:33]  I mean, we agree.
[00:19:34]  We agree about that so far?
[00:19:35]  Yep, we're good so far.
[00:19:35]  Take right?
[00:19:36]  Yep.
[00:19:36]  All right.
[00:19:37]  He's competent.
[00:19:38]  Like, he's obviously a guy who can, who can make, be decisive, make decisions, make stuff happen.
[00:19:44]  I think so.
[00:19:45]  For the most part, there's some, sometimes I'm like, I don't know if he's always Twitter competent, you know, but, but then again, I'm like, ah, man.
[00:19:52]  But on, he might actually just be a Twitter genius, you know, like that.
[00:19:56]  Because I get in hot water, as you know, all this.
[00:19:58]  And like maybe he's playing 4D chess.
[00:20:00]  And I go back on some things where it's like back in like 2017 or 18, I was like, why did he say that?
[00:20:05]  And now I look back and I'm like, that was awesome.
[00:20:08]  I love that he said that.
[00:20:09]  So, anyways, all that being said, yes, I think he is generally competent.
[00:20:13]  And I think where he's not, one of the things that I've appreciated about him is I think one of the best things about Trump is not that you get Trump.
[00:20:21]  For me, and this will get into our larger conversation, but when electing, particularly a president, Is I'm looking very much to what administration that's going to provide for me and not just the president.
[00:20:32]  And so with Trump, I do think that one of the things he's competent in is recognizing where he's not competent and staffing those weaknesses and getting some of the best team.
[00:20:43]  And I think he got some of the most competent people.
[00:20:44]  He didn't get all the most loyal people.
[00:20:47]  I'm hoping that he's learned that lesson.
[00:20:48]  So now we can get competent people and loyal people when he wins.
[00:20:53]  I don't think it's if.
[00:20:54]  When he wins, the only if is I think he'll win.
[00:20:57]  The only question is, will they let him be president?

=== National Covenants in Crisis (12:52) ===

[00:21:00]  Will he live?
[00:21:01]  That's still a question.
[00:21:02]  But, anyways, competent, yeah, I'm with you.
[00:21:04]  We're three for three.
[00:21:06]  All right.
[00:21:07]  I'm going to be honest with you.
[00:21:08]  This one, it's going behind the paywall.
[00:21:11]  It's not something we typically do.
[00:21:12]  In fact, thus far, every single piece of content that we've produced here at Right Response Ministries has eventually been made available to you for free publicly.
[00:21:23]  This is an exception, though.
[00:21:24]  First two episodes will launch publicly, the next seven episodes will exclusively be available for our members at Patreon.com forward slash right response ministries.
[00:21:35]  Why?
[00:21:37]  Well, I'll give you the reason because right now, the vast majority of evangelical Christians are not ready for the conversation that we have in these episodes.
[00:21:47]  And frankly, you and I both know that many of those individuals are actually bad faith actors who will seek to slice it up, take us out of context, put it out there for the world wide web in order to discredit this ministry and see to it that we're canceled.
[00:22:04]  And honestly, I'm not willing to let that happen.
[00:22:07]  What conversation am I even talking about?
[00:22:10]  I'm talking about a nine part series between myself and Pastor Andrew Isker on Israel.
[00:22:17]  The history, the scripture, the whole big shebang.
[00:22:22]  Check it out at patreon.com forward slash right response ministries.
[00:22:27]  You can get every single episode available now, all of it ad free.
[00:22:31]  And here's a couple clips just to whet your appetite.
[00:22:34]  And so our entire moral framework is based around 1930, 1940.
[00:22:39]  And every bad thing is Hitler.
[00:22:43]  Every failure to confront the bad thing is Neville Chamberlain.
[00:22:47]  And Saddam Hussein, Hitler.
[00:22:49]  Vladimir Putin, Hitler.
[00:22:50]  Donald Trump, Hitler.
[00:22:52]  That's the only moral framework that we have that is operable.
[00:22:56]  So the moment that a young man crosses the aisle and the don't believe your lying eyes rhetoric doesn't work any longer, and he's just noticed too much because it really is that blatantly obvious.
[00:23:08]  He has nowhere else to go.
[00:23:09]  And he crosses the aisle.
[00:23:10]  Well, the moment he crosses the aisle, there's no reasonable, wise, mature leader over there.
[00:23:13]  You would just have the guys on the TV telling them, this is what the Bible says, you have to believe this, right?
[00:23:20]  On the radio, the Christian radio stations, you'd only hear those guys preaching that particular thing.
[00:23:26]  When that is actually, when you look at all of church history, that's the minority view, the tiny minority view.
[00:23:34]  The rest of theological history in the church is that, you know, is the kind of stuff that we're saying.
[00:23:42]  Yeah, this one's a banger.
[00:23:45]  Again, go to patreon.com forward slash right response ministries to get all nine parts ad free.
[00:23:51]  Right now, available today.
[00:23:55]  Okay, so the among us is citizens, the maleness, being adult male, competent, then the idea of fearing God.
[00:24:05]  And I think that somebody could try to make some sort of argument that fearing God is used for some lower bar than a credible profession of faith, or you could try to make the argument for a credible profession of faith.
[00:24:15]  I think fearing God, the fear of God in terms of seeing somebody as a God-fearer, has to do with a credible profession when you look at how others.
[00:24:23]  You know, are judged.
[00:24:24]  But so I think that's something where you could go, what is that?
[00:24:27]  So I'm going to say, I don't believe Donald Trump has a credible profession.
[00:24:30]  I don't think that Donald Trump gives the display of the fear of God.
[00:24:34]  So then there's the idea of a person who's a man of truth.
[00:24:38]  I think it's, let me double check the language so I don't twist God's word.
[00:24:41]  Men of truth.
[00:24:42]  Yeah.
[00:24:43]  I think a man of truth.
[00:24:44]  Real quick, can we go back to fearing God just for a second?
[00:24:46]  Yeah.
[00:24:48]  Cornelius, Acts chapter 10, correct me if I'm wrong, he was known as God fearing, I think is the language.
[00:24:57]  Um, this is before a credible profession of faith because he didn't know exactly who to profess to, and that's part of the reason why you know the Holy Spirit brings Peter, you know, and he has this you know heavenly visitation, you know, with a sheet and all these things.
[00:25:13]  Don't call unclean what God has called clean.
[00:25:15]  He goes to Cornelius and preaches the gospel, um, of Jesus Christ, and Cornelius, um, then has a profession of faith.
[00:25:24]  Um, my take, and I'd be curious to hear yours, but uh, my take is it's like, well, how could he fear God before that?
[00:25:30]  How you know, and And how could he be known as someone who gave offerings to God and did many charitable things and all these kinds?
[00:25:37]  Because it seems, the text seems pretty clear that before Peter ever even got there, Cornelius was solid.
[00:25:44]  And so my take is, and I think it's the reform take, is that Cornelius actually was a Christian.
[00:25:48]  He was already regenerate.
[00:25:50]  Because people say that, well, if Cornelius had died while Peter was on the way, he still would have gone to hell, even though he feared God, even though he gave many charitable gifts, because at the end of the day, it's a profession in Jesus.
[00:26:01]  And I get what they're getting at.
[00:26:02]  That's a very.
[00:26:03]  Kind of Baptist y thing to say, and I appreciate it.
[00:26:06]  You know, personal evangelism and know the name that man can be saved, but you know, the name of it, and I get that, and I appreciate the sentiment, but I think it's a wrong headed sentiment.
[00:26:15]  I think that Cornelius in this case was exemplifying characteristics that only a truly regenerate man could exemplify, and that this is a case of regeneration, which does always precede faith in the logical order, but here we have a unique.
[00:26:34]  For that dispensation, for lack of a better word, where there's this overlap from Pentecost and then, you know, falling back up with the basis that the Spirit had been poured out.
[00:26:44]  But a lot of people still only had John's baptism and the repentance that John had preached.
[00:26:50]  And so there's this weird time in church history where regeneration, which always logically precedes faith, at this moment, there was even a chronological proceeding of regeneration.
[00:27:02]  And then faith, particularly attaching to the object of Jesus Christ, came later.
[00:27:06]  So, anyway, I'm saying all that to say, Here's a guy who people would point to.
[00:27:11]  If anything, I'm helping you strengthen your argument.
[00:27:15]  But here's a guy that some people point to as an example of someone who was not a Christian because he didn't know about Jesus yet or didn't know enough about Jesus or had Peter hadn't preached to him yet.
[00:27:27]  And yet he feared God.
[00:27:29]  And I would be of the persuasion that no, he feared God because he was regenerate.
[00:27:35]  And there were some dotting of I's and crossings of T's that came later in a unique dispensation of time where the Spirit had been poured out, but he had only yet heard John's.
[00:27:48]  Message of repentance.
[00:27:49]  What do you think?
[00:27:51]  Yeah, I think that I would say, Cornelius, when you look at the idea of a God fear, the Jewish writings of the time talked about those who were Gentiles who believed but had not become Jews by circumcision.
[00:28:03]  And so I think that making profession and doing things that are adherents, you know, in kind of Reformed Presbyterian covenanter type circles, you have like attenders, adherents, and members.
[00:28:16]  And so, like, an adherent is somebody who's like generally agreement, but maybe there's like Some sort of a thing where there's a hang up where they're not quite ready to covenant.
[00:28:23]  And so as a result, they've been, they're not able to have, to meet the terms of communion by covenanting or to receive, you know, baptism.
[00:28:31]  Um, there's some sort of like thing that they're, they're like generally in agreement with the Reformed religion.
[00:28:36]  Uh, there's some, there's something going on where they're trying to be of use to the church and, and to be, you know, uh, submissive to the word of God and all that.
[00:28:45]  And so it's sort of, I think, I, I think that basically the, you know, the Christian church before Christ, you know, the, the old covenant church, um, Is what we often call the Jews of old or whatever.
[00:28:58]  But the idea that he was a guy who was a regular attender at the local Old Covenant church of whatever town he was in, I can't remember.
[00:29:10]  And so he's there, he's hearing the word preached, and it's promising the Messiah to come.
[00:29:15]  And he doesn't know that the Messiah's come yet.
[00:29:18]  And so then Peter comes to him and tells him, This is the new covenant, and this is Jesus, and he's the Messiah that was promised, and he believes it.
[00:29:27]  So, he's already believing the gospel about the Messiah to come.
[00:29:29]  He then finds out this is the Messiah that came.
[00:29:33]  And I think that that's what's happening there.
[00:29:35]  So, it sounds like you and I are in agreement on what kind of guy Cornelius is.
[00:29:41]  And so, I view him as having been used to show how, in the New Covenant, with him being baptized, you're able to be a part of the visible church without receiving the Old Covenant sign of circumcision.
[00:29:50]  And I think that's a part of the way of showing the replacement of the entry ritual of circumcision with baptism in the New Covenant.
[00:29:58]  Okay.
[00:30:00]  So, if this category of God-fearer is something that actually means that there's a credible profession or there's a profession of faith and actions that help to display that you could see this guy as having a credible basis for saying he fears God, that's not the same requirement as somebody being able to meet the terms of communion at some church with a church covenant.
[00:30:28]  And so, the way I've applied that generally is: does this guy seem to have.
[00:30:32]  You know, is there any evidence that this guy is basically a conservative Protestant?
[00:30:35]  It's kind of that's kind of the low bar that I'm generally applying here in our current state.
[00:30:42]  I think that you could have a national covenant, a civil covenant that makes it so there's a greater amount, but in our current kind of collapsed thing, the emergency and on that I'm pulling is like just the weakest of evidence that this guy's a conservative Protestant.
[00:30:59]  So, that's that's where I'm going.
[00:31:00]  So, then we go, a guy who a man of truth is like, is he a truth teller?
[00:31:06]  You know, and with Trump, you can be like, well, he says some hard truths.
[00:31:09]  But then there's also the question of, okay, well, how much lying do you see?
[00:31:16]  And so if a guy is consistently willing to say hard truths but also lies a lot, I would say he's not a man of truth.
[00:31:25]  And so I think those are questions of fact, right?
[00:31:29]  When you're judging something, you have to figure out the doctrine or the law, and you've got to have a standard.
[00:31:34]  Then you've got to evaluate the particular facts of a scenario.
[00:31:37]  So with Donald Trump, we're evaluating the facts in the case of a particular man.
[00:31:41]  And so I think the first thing would be like, do you and I agree about the law standard?
[00:31:45]  And are there emergency, you know, pull things?
[00:31:48]  And then when we figure out, okay, what are the emergency lines?
[00:31:51]  And like, what's the general standard?
[00:31:53]  What are some of the emergency exceptions?
[00:31:54]  And then, okay, in this case, does he meet the general standard?
[00:31:57]  Or in this case, does he even meet the emergency standard?
[00:32:01]  Or are we like, you know, way beyond even those lines?
[00:32:04]  And somebody might say the emergency standard is just the lesser of two awful choices.
[00:32:08]  I think that's, you know, we'll see where that goes.
[00:32:10]  But that's sort of where I would say we have to figure out is what are the lines.
[00:32:16]  And when are those lines where?
[00:32:18]  And I think you can prove from Scripture that the lines can move in certain circumstances.
[00:32:24]  So, for example, in the Hezekiah Reformation, God ordained that only the priests sacrifice, not the Levites in general.
[00:32:32]  When you see the Passover being dealt with in the Reformation with Hezekiah, there's not enough priests.
[00:32:40]  And so they end up having the Levites participate in the sacrifices.
[00:32:44]  So, that's sort of like if you, in an emergency situation, didn't have enough elders and you had the deacons preach.
[00:32:50]  Or, like, you're training somebody to prepare, you know.
[00:32:52]  There's also this, like, assistant process, right?
[00:32:55]  So, the Bible has processes for people to train, and the Bible has processes for emergency, like, oh, you move, you try to maintain the ordinary order as much as possible, and you retreat down the line.
[00:33:05]  So, you go from priests to Levites in the administration of the sacrifices during the Hezekiah Reformation.
[00:33:11]  And so, there's stuff like that all over the place in the Bible.
[00:33:13]  And so, people kind of treat the Bible like, well, this is a standard, but everything's awful, so we just need to totally abandon all standards.
[00:33:20]  And I want to say, no, we need to find the retreat lines because the Bible was written by, wait for it, God.
[00:33:27]  And he figured out all the exceptions in the history that he predestined.
[00:33:31]  And he made sure that his book had all of the retreat lines that we need for the exceptions.
[00:33:37]  And so people kind of act like, you know, well, there's exceptions and the exceptions aren't in the book.
[00:33:42]  It's like, no, they're all there.
[00:33:43]  They're all in the book.
[00:33:45]  And so that's what I want to say is what is the retreat line that we go to if we can't find a God-fearer and if we can't find.

=== Divine Exceptions in Scripture (12:26) ===

[00:33:52]  Somebody who is a man of truth.
[00:33:54]  And then we go, hate covetousness.
[00:33:56]  What is hate covetousness?
[00:33:57]  Some people could say, well, you know, maybe Donald Trump, you know, is covetous in various things or, you know, look, he wants to make money.
[00:34:04]  It's like, well, making money is not a problem.
[00:34:06]  Making money is good.
[00:34:07]  Covetousness is wanting to take other people's money.
[00:34:08]  So maybe the fact that he wants to cut taxes shows that he is a man who hates covetousness.
[00:34:13]  You know, and maybe the fact that he wants to undermine socialism to some extent.
[00:34:17]  So I would go, I don't think he's free market enough.
[00:34:21]  But I'm even willing to kind of just go, well, let's grant that the guy hates covetousness.
[00:34:27]  So, that one, I don't even want to debate on that.
[00:34:29]  I'm willing to say just fine.
[00:34:30]  I'd be happy to say he has covetousness enough for me to say that I could vote for him.
[00:34:35]  I land into this problem of the fearing God and the man of truth thing.
[00:34:42]  Real quick.
[00:34:42]  So, fearing God, I get.
[00:34:44]  Man of truth, you said, like, in terms of lies, what are you thinking of?
[00:34:49]  What are some of the big lies that you feel like Trump told?
[00:34:56]  So, I don't actually.
[00:34:58]  So, this is like if I get in an argument with my wife.
[00:35:00]  Right, like my wife is really great at remembering particulars.
[00:35:03]  I'm just like, I don't know.
[00:35:05]  I've got a general sense of the conversation we had five minutes ago.
[00:35:09]  So, with Trump, I don't have any big lies that I would hold on to that I can remember from him.
[00:35:15]  I think that generally, when I'm talking to people, even people that are kind of pro Trump, they think that there's stuff where he is an exaggerator, a liar, says stuff that's fitting to his interests.
[00:35:28]  So, I can't really recall anything right here.
[00:35:30]  Yeah, I think exaggerations, I think that's fair.
[00:35:34]  I just, I know, I feel for the guy in the sense that there's been.
[00:35:38]  So many lies, you know, told about him, whether it's the Russian, you know, collusion or, you know, the very fine people hoax, you know, very fine people on both sides that eventually even Snopes, you know, like God hating leftists, you know, they came out and said, yeah, that was, you know, but they always, they always correct the record like three or four years later after he's already paid the cost,
[00:36:07]  you know, so it's like he has, you know, so he pays the cost.
[00:36:11]  For the thing that he did that was so terrible that, oh, by the way, we just lied.
[00:36:14]  And part of that's just because our whole American system, we've apostatized so far from the Lord Jesus Christ that there's no penalty for perjury.
[00:36:21]  Not really.
[00:36:23]  I mean, there's so many contexts where you can just slander someone, perjure someone, and get away scot clean.
[00:36:33]  And so why not?
[00:36:35]  Because you don't actually have to be right.
[00:36:37]  You don't have to back it up.
[00:36:38]  You don't have to be truthful.
[00:36:39]  You just have to.
[00:36:41]  You just have to be able to keep it up long enough and get enough of the cameras turned on as you're doing it to get your way.
[00:36:49]  So, absolutely.
[00:36:51]  And I think so.
[00:36:52]  I'm even like because I don't have anything that I'm going to say that I'm holding against him, and I can think of like hard truths that he's been willing to say.
[00:37:00]  Right.
[00:37:01]  Right.
[00:37:02]  So, if I'm going to go, okay.
[00:37:03]  So, I could even like, I could even budge on that.
[00:37:06]  Right.
[00:37:06]  I could even just go, well, maybe, maybe it's the case.
[00:37:08]  So, if I were, if I were, you know, I could research that further, whatever else.
[00:37:14]  But as far as like, if I were just, Trying to deal with this and go minimal bar.
[00:37:19]  If I'm not investigating it that far, because it's kind of absurd that I'm voting for one out of 300 and whatever million people for the presidency, as opposed to having a graded system where you have part of the purpose of the electoral college is so you've got people who interact with these people.
[00:37:34]  And so we've moved away to this almost direct democracy version of the election of presidents that makes it so that you're encouraging demagoguery and general PR campaigns as opposed to some sort of a An effort by people who are elected to deal with each other and to then be able to choose with the basis of character being a part of it.
[00:37:56]  But so, even just all that, we just go to the fear's God thing.
[00:38:01]  You know, I saw him post a prayer to the Archangel Michael.
[00:38:05]  I saw that.
[00:38:06]  You know, he's abandoned the protection of the unborn, he's abandoned the idea of.
[00:38:17]  You know, of fighting for biblical marriage as the proper view of marriage.
[00:38:21]  You know, there's all this stuff where you just go, This is not the fear of God.
[00:38:27]  This is, you know, doing what he pleases or doing what he thinks is expedient.
[00:38:34]  And it is so important that a man be willing to stand against what's popular for what's right.
[00:38:42]  And it's also important that a man be willing to not worship his own will, but instead fear God, that God will bring judgment.
[00:38:50]  If he goes for his preferences as opposed to obeying God.
[00:38:55]  And so that's where I just go I can give way, I can go.
[00:39:00]  Okay, fine.
[00:39:00]  Maybe on everything except for fear's God.
[00:39:04]  Yep.
[00:39:05]  I get it.
[00:39:06]  Fair.
[00:39:07]  Especially on the issue of life and marriage, on both of those issues.
[00:39:13]  Yeah.
[00:39:13]  When I talked to Ben Zaisloff about this and we did our debate, I tried to be a little bit more honest than I think some guys who are on my side of the aisle on this issue of voting for Trump.
[00:39:29]  Um, you know, conservative Christian guys, but but pro Trump, um, for this election.
[00:39:35]  A lot of them I've noticed, um, tried to, you know, like, oh, yeah, but he's the most pro life president that there's ever been.
[00:39:43]  And and I get it, I get what's being said.
[00:39:45]  On one hand, I actually don't only sympathize, but I actually agree, uh, in the sense that I think, you know, if you voted for Mitt Romney or you voted for, you know, all your Jeb Bushes and your Mitt Romneys and your George Bushes, even for that matter, um, I don't think these guys were pro life.
[00:40:03]  I think Roe provided 50 years' cover of a veil, a facade that allowed guys to offer lip service and pretend to be pro life when they really weren't.
[00:40:19]  So I actually don't think that, whether it's McCain or, I think there's a lot of guys.
[00:40:27]  I guess I just want to be honest about that, because I do think that Trump is getting, you know, Uh, he's getting a lot of grief on the life issue, and rightfully so, he should.
[00:40:36]  But I just want to be fair and say, as much grief as we give him, let's just remember all these other guys were even worse.
[00:40:41]  They were worse, and it's not fair that they get to go down in history as like, um, really great guys, you know, with their forever wars.
[00:40:49]  I mean, McCain, you know, like he's like, you know, I feel like, you know, from the grave right now, just like, yes, World War III, yes.
[00:40:59]  I mean, like these were not good guys, these were war mongering, um.
[00:41:05]  Guys who gave just a little bit of lip service to the life issue, who I don't, who in terms of not what they said or theory, but in terms of practice tangibly, Trump has done more for the issue of life than all of them.
[00:41:20]  Kind of like the son, you know, who's like, the dad says, go into the vineyard, and he says, uh uh, but then he shows up.
[00:41:26]  So Trump, maybe with a bad attitude, talks back to dad, you know, uh uh, but then he actually showed up and he did more than any president in my lifetime on the issue of life.
[00:41:37]  That said, He has spent the last 18 months verbally backtracking all of it.
[00:41:45]  And I'm perfectly willing to admit that.
[00:41:47]  There's no way around it.
[00:41:49]  And I'm willing to admit that Trump is, I don't know, functionally what he did, like best president since Reagan, maybe better than Reagan, maybe best president since Eisenhower.
[00:41:58]  I think under Eisenhower, government got cut by like 50%.
[00:42:02]  That's nice.
[00:42:03]  So it's just kind of like, it's like, all right.
[00:42:06]  I mean, like, you know, he was like, I think he, one of his executive orders was like, you can't put a regulation into place without killing two.
[00:42:14]  Um, I think you know, there was all this kind of stuff, like you know, DeVos, you know, Secretary DeVos, like just hatcheting the Department of Education.
[00:42:23]  I mean, they're like, you know, they're like joyous, like glorious things that were happening in many scenarios.
[00:42:28]  He's just like, all right, I mean, that a lot of that stuff's good.
[00:42:31]  Um, and obviously, the overturn of Roe, you know, God can use men who are not qualified to do stuff, right?
[00:42:39]  Uh, and I think there are lots of benefits, lots of restraints of evil that occurred there, and I think that the Lord.
[00:42:43]  Can get Donald Trump into office with or without Christians voting for a man who's not qualified.
[00:42:50]  And I think that the question for everybody is not what's the pragmatic effect.
[00:42:56]  Because I would much rather have, you know, if I can choose to live under one or the other, you know, so there's two countries.
[00:43:04]  There's one ruled by, you know, by communist Harris, and there's another one that's ruled by Donald Trump.
[00:43:10]  And which one do I get to go, you know, move into?
[00:43:15]  If I have to flee into a country, I'm going to flee into one ruled by Donald Trump.
[00:43:19]  So, it doesn't mean that I think that he's qualified.
[00:43:22]  If only you had a choice.
[00:43:23]  Wait a second.
[00:43:25]  You do have a choice.
[00:43:26]  November 5th, I expect to see you there voting for us.
[00:43:32]  I will be writing in a qualified man.
[00:43:34]  All right.
[00:43:36]  But so that idea, so like, yeah, I get that.
[00:43:40]  And so somebody goes like, well, if you would choose to live there, then shouldn't you choose to vote for him?
[00:43:44]  It's like, well, no, because the Lord can also take our obedience doing something that seems Like it's totally unlikely to succeed, you know, voting for a qualified person.
[00:43:53]  You're all welcome to write me in, or we can write in Pastor Webbin.
[00:43:56]  You know, like, let's do that.
[00:43:58]  I'm just going to write in Pastor Webbin.
[00:44:00]  Like, that's just, I'm just going to.
[00:44:01]  Well, it wouldn't be fair because then I would feel obligated to return the favor, and I can't.
[00:44:05]  Unless you win me over, and I don't think it's likely.
[00:44:07]  But me, here's a crazy thing.
[00:44:10]  I'm, as you know, I have many convictions, and most of them the two of us share together.
[00:44:15]  But if I had my way, we would repeal the 19th Amendment.
[00:44:21]  If I had my way, Trump would be a man who feared the Lord and stood for the issue of life.
[00:44:28]  There'd be a lot of things that I would change.
[00:44:30]  And yet, despite all those things, not only will I, but I myself and Mrs. Webbin will be going in, noses unplugged, to vote for Donald J. Trump.
[00:44:46]  And I have my theological reasons for why and how I defend that, which we can get to here in a moment, but that's how strongly I feel.
[00:44:56]  On the issue is that I think there are some, like my wife, for instance, if we ever got to the point, and I don't know if it would happen in our lifetime, but I have seen the Overton window shift quite a bit on this issue.
[00:45:07]  But if we ever got to the point where it was on the docket and it was something, ironically, that America was voting for, voting to take away the vote of women, my wife would, me and my wife would both vote on principle with conviction to take away her vote.
[00:45:25]  So, you know what I mean?
[00:45:26]  Like saying that I do believe, according to God's law, I, I, I think it's wrong.
[00:45:30]  I think it's wrong.
[00:45:32]  I believe in representative government at every single level, all the way down to the household.
[00:45:36]  And it doesn't go down to the individual, it stops at the household.
[00:45:38]  Molecular, not atomistic.
[00:45:40]  The basic building block, the smallest building block of a nation, a civic covenant, is a family and not an individual.
[00:45:48]  And so I actually think that on principle, it's wrong for there to be more than a household vote.
[00:45:54]  That said, in prudence, I don't want to.
[00:46:01]  I want to get my full household vote.
[00:46:02]  Right now, if I go and vote and my wife doesn't, then I look at it as it takes now two votes from the Webb and household just to get our one.
[00:46:10]  And I'm not willing to part with half of it.
[00:46:13]  Does that make sense?
[00:46:15]  All right, that's it, guys.
[00:46:16]  I tried to warn you the time has finally arrived.

=== Household Voting Principles (02:26) ===

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[00:48:42]  Yeah, and I think as regards.

=== Representative Government Authority (04:23) ===

[00:48:45]  As regards that, there might be, I'd have to think about the logic of it more.
[00:48:48]  In my own household, you know, whatever's out of faith is sin.
[00:48:51]  And so if you can't do something in faith, you know, you shouldn't do it.
[00:48:54]  Right.
[00:48:54]  And so in my own house, you know, my wife was like, you know, I think that I'm exercising authority over men in the civil sphere.
[00:49:01]  I vote.
[00:49:02]  And so her conscience was bothered.
[00:49:04]  My wife had that same thought.
[00:49:05]  And then the way we reasoned through it, and maybe I'm wrong, but the way we reasoned through it was basically her as my viceroy and saying, no, you're, we currently live in a wicked time with wicked rulers who are dominated by feminism and hate men.
[00:49:19]  And so they changed the rule book.
[00:49:22]  And so what you're doing is not exercising your authority over men.
[00:49:26]  But what we're doing is having to get creative with the wicked landscape.
[00:49:31]  And you're ensuring that I have my full authority as a citizen.
[00:49:36]  And that my authority, what the wicked rulers wanted to do is they wanted to strip away half of a man's authority.
[00:49:43]  And what you're doing is you're conceding it back to me by voting in line with the decision that I make for our family.
[00:49:50]  That's how we kind of reason through it.
[00:49:52]  Yeah.
[00:49:53]  And I'm not in a place where I'm willing to condemn that reasoning.
[00:49:56]  I need to think about it further.
[00:49:57]  You know, I just, I think I, but I, it was, it was something that basically, that's where my wife's conscience landed.
[00:50:06]  That's where I am.
[00:50:07]  And so I can't in faith do that.
[00:50:10]  I want to study it further and to think about it.
[00:50:13]  I think that there's, it's worth, the argument you're presenting is certainly not with, not worth just immediately going, ah, it's ridiculous.
[00:50:19]  It's, I think, I think that's something that has to be considered, you know, and I just haven't given it, Sufficient time, in part because there's so many good works to do, right?
[00:50:28]  You figure out where do you give your time to study, what duties do you have to do, what.
[00:50:31]  I get it.
[00:50:32]  And the practical effect of the vote is I'm confident that if she does it against her conscience, it's sin.
[00:50:40]  That's right.
[00:50:44]  And I think that she's right, but I also don't want to go.
[00:50:48]  So I answer when people ask me about it or whatever, I talk to them about it in my own church, but I try to.
[00:50:54]  I haven't worked through all of it because there may be a way in which, like the type of thing you're arguing with the representation and giving it back possibly.
[00:51:02]  So, I just need to think about it further.
[00:51:04]  And so, forgive my cop out.
[00:51:05]  No, no, that's fine.
[00:51:06]  No, that's fine.
[00:51:07]  I appreciate that.
[00:51:08]  And it's really not a cop out because, yeah, you're right.
[00:51:12]  Romans 14 is incredibly important.
[00:51:15]  There are certain things where it's just like, yeah, if you're not there, you're not there.
[00:51:18]  Anything that does not proceed from faith is sin.
[00:51:20]  And so, I'm with you.
[00:51:22]  So, with that, going back to Trump.
[00:51:25]  Also, repeal the 19th.
[00:51:26]  Yeah, absolutely.
[00:51:27]  Amen.
[00:51:27]  And just so the women don't feel like we're picking on them, one, we think we should repeal the 19th because we love God and because we love women.
[00:51:37]  But beyond that, it's really more than just, and I know you'll agree with this repealing the 19th.
[00:51:42]  It's universal suffrage is not God's design.
[00:51:45]  So there's a lot of men who shouldn't be voting either.
[00:51:48]  There's, like you and I would both agree, you need to be head of household.
[00:51:56]  That means there's people under you, a man who is under authority and in authority.
[00:52:01]  You're representing someone, representative government.
[00:52:03]  I think you need to have a stake in the country as it presently lies, but also a stake in the future.
[00:52:09]  Um, so, uh, so there's, and that's why marriage is important because it indicates childbearing and these kinds of things, future generations, a stake in the country also in terms of ownership, land owning males.
[00:52:19]  All this, there's a whole lot of it's not just, uh, women can't vote because, um, they're too dumb to vote.
[00:52:26]  That's not the position, that's not what either of us are articulating.
[00:52:29]  We're saying, no, right, uh, leaders should vote, and God has given it to men to be leaders, and certain men have abdicated that leadership, and therefore they should not have the right to vote either.
[00:52:40]  Right, my, uh, My wife is ultra competent.
[00:52:44]  And I think that as far as like ability to make judgments goes, you know, very able to apply biblical judgments and all that kind of stuff.
[00:52:52]  It has nothing to do with her competency or her essence, her humanness, her, you know, image of Godness, anything like that.
[00:52:58]  It is the law order of God for the good of humans that men represent their homes.
[00:53:05]  Amen.
[00:53:05]  In the public sphere.
[00:53:07]  Amen.

=== Human Finitude and Sinfulness (08:13) ===

[00:53:08]  All right.
[00:53:09]  So Exodus 18, we went through the six different characteristics.
[00:53:14]  Maybe you could work out covetousness.
[00:53:16]  Maybe you could work out lying, but for sure, the fearing God one, even with the loosest standard that we could possibly imagine, it's pretty tough on that one.
[00:53:27]  Right.
[00:53:27]  Especially with statements like, you know, well, I don't ask God for forgiveness.
[00:53:30]  I just, instead, I'm just, you know, a humble guy who's never done anything wrong.
[00:53:34]  I mean, that's, I'm paraphrasing, but that's a bit, you know, he was like, instead, I just like to just not make mistakes, you know?
[00:53:42]  And so there's, you know, and that's just one thing.
[00:53:46]  And, you know, it's in the past, but, There's the issue of life is issue enough.
[00:53:51]  And now with IVF and all these different things, and not just IVF, but I mean, you just had, you know, you watched the presidential debate, and it's basically, you know, just arguing between should we let already born babies die on stainless steel tables or should we kill them, you know, a full, a merciful, full 60 days prior.
[00:54:15]  And that was basically, there were your two sides.
[00:54:19]  And Trump is, I mean, because Trump is even, I mean, you know, the only thing that he really decried was, you know, partial birth abortion, what Tim Walz has passed, where six babies, it's either five or six actually have died since he passed this legislation in his state, where the doctor can go and talk to the mother and they can have a back and forth while the baby's just sitting there dying out.
[00:54:43]  And if the mother decides, yeah, I don't want the baby, even though it was born alive.
[00:54:49]  Then they can't kill it, but they also just make sure not to feed it, care for it, and it dies.
[00:54:55]  Were you aware of that, Law?
[00:54:59]  I think I'd heard something the way you've just described it.
[00:55:03]  That's what it is.
[00:55:05]  Yeah, but I mean, that's what it is.
[00:55:06]  And Tim Wall's past that, and he's the running mate of Kamala Harris.
[00:55:10]  And so obviously, that's a big deal, and it's absolutely atrocious and wicked.
[00:55:14]  Yet, at the same time, part of the problem is.
[00:55:19]  That I've had to learn about myself.
[00:55:21]  There's fallenness and then there's finitude.
[00:55:24]  So, my wife and I, we had a miscarriage.
[00:55:27]  Our first child is in glory.
[00:55:31]  And then we have four children who are with us and one on the way, Lord willing.
[00:55:38]  And if one of my children, I'll freely admit, I have no problem admitting this because it's true.
[00:55:44]  If one of my four children, living and born, died, I. You wouldn't see me podcasting or in the public.
[00:55:54]  I would be, I don't know what I would do.
[00:55:57]  I would be absolutely devastated for quite a long time.
[00:56:02]  And I would be just trying to do things like brush my teeth in the morning and just to barely function and get by and just crying out to God, have mercy, have mercy, have mercy, help.
[00:56:15]  I would be so torn up about it.
[00:56:19]  And I was sad.
[00:56:21]  With the miscarriage, but not that sad.
[00:56:24]  I would not, I would not, I did not grieve the miscarriage to the level that I would grieve one of my four living born children dying.
[00:56:35]  And the reason, I would argue, the reason for that is not because the miscarriage that that child somehow had less worth, less dignity, or was even less my child, fully human, full worth, full dignity, and fully mine.
[00:56:47]  That was my kid, no less mine.
[00:56:51]  But my finitude, Part of it may be fallenness and sinfulness, and I'm willing to seriously consider that, and I have, and I'm willing to consider it more.
[00:56:59]  But I think part of it is just my finitude I never held that child.
[00:57:05]  I never knew that child.
[00:57:07]  I never heard that child laugh or saw that child cry, or, you know, the child was, you know, nine weeks old at their death.
[00:57:16]  And so my point is I think there is something to be said for us being aghast and just.
[00:57:25]  Disgusted by a child on a stainless steel table kicking and crying for its mother and left to die versus IVF.
[00:57:39]  I think there is a difference, not morally, not a moral difference, not an objective difference, but a subjective difference as it pertains to our finitude.
[00:57:48]  And not only, I guess all I'm saying is I wouldn't only or exclusively put the fault that we would grieve one more than the other in the category of fallenness that we're sinners.
[00:57:59]  I think sin certainly plays a role, but I don't think it's just sin.
[00:58:02]  I don't think it's just because I'm fallen that I would mourn the death of one of my living children, born children, more than the miscarriage.
[00:58:10]  I think it's also the fact that I'm just, I'm not omniscient.
[00:58:13]  I'm not all known.
[00:58:14]  I'm a creature.
[00:58:15]  It's not just that I'm a fallen creature, but I'm also just a creature in the finitude aspect.
[00:58:20]  And so I do think that there's something there that's natural and even right that we would say, you know, and be taken aback by Tim Wall's position.
[00:58:34]  And as those kinds of things come up.
[00:58:37]  And yet at the same time, though, I think we need to recognize our finitude and our fallenness and try to disciple ourselves and reorient ourselves and train ourselves that we would.
[00:58:50]  That we would care more, that we would care more about the zygote, you know, that's frozen, put it on ice and wrongfully incarcerated without trial and likely to eventually be discarded and flushed.
[00:59:07]  So I'm sympathetic to the person, including myself, that doesn't feel the horror over that that I feel over the stainless steel kicking, screaming baby that slowly dies.
[00:59:19]  But I recognize that morally, I should feel the same.
[00:59:27]  And that some of that is maybe my sinfulness, and some of that is a lot of that, I think, is the finitude.
[00:59:33]  And so, all that being said, my point is back to Trump.
[00:59:37]  That's part of what I told Ben when I was talking to him, Ben Saisloff, I'm willing to admit, and I think a lot of pro Trump Christians aren't, I'm willing to admit that in terms of raw numbers, babies saved, the difference is negligible.
[00:59:52]  It's not like we have a champion force.
[00:59:56]  That's going to protect millions of babies.
[00:59:59]  And the other one is the difference of the number of late term abortions in the seventh, eighth, and ninth month.
[01:00:07]  And as atrocious as it is, even with Tim Walz and his state, it's five or six babies that have died on the stainless steel table.
[01:00:15]  So, in terms of raw numbers, it's not as though a vote for Trump is going to save millions of babies.
[01:00:21]  You're going to have millions over the next four years, unless God does a miracle, millions dead with Kamala and millions dead with Trump.
[01:00:29]  And I'm willing to recognize that.
[01:00:30]  And then back to, okay, and so with that being as it may, being as it is, it's real hard to argue for fear of God.
[01:00:39]  So I'm with you so far.
[01:00:41]  I think we're pound for pound.
[01:00:42]  I don't think we have a disagreement so far.
[01:00:47]  So I think it seems, and at the same time, there are many other places where, again, spending, appointees, appointees to the judicial branch, all this kind of stuff, like pragmatically speaking, And honestly, there might be things that occur that help to bolster and encourage certain things where you could end up with thousands of babies that might have been murdered or whatever, not as a result of encouragement and support.
[01:01:11]  So, I mean, there's something, there's real.
[01:01:14]  I mean, like the difference between a wicked ruler and a horrifically wicked ruler is a big deal.
[01:01:21]  Right.

=== Exodus Standards for Leaders (14:36) ===

[01:01:22]  And so that spread still matters a lot.
[01:01:27]  But the issue is what are the lawful courses of action that we're allowed to take?
[01:01:31]  Right.
[01:01:32]  And what do we expect the blessing of God on?
[01:01:35]  And so I think when we think about that, I guess the question is that I'd have for you is so it seems like we're in agreement that it seems like he's missing the mark, the fear of God.
[01:01:48]  So can you talk to me about the reasons why you think logically it's a lawful thing to vote for him with that qualification being missed?
[01:01:58]  Absolutely.
[01:01:58]  Yeah.
[01:01:59]  So the reason why for me is I think Exodus 18, in terms of the general equity of this, is the standard.
[01:02:06]  And I agree, we both agree on the standard.
[01:02:07]  So now, the way I see it is we're now discussing the application of this standard.
[01:02:15]  So, how does this standard apply?
[01:02:17]  And I see it as our current system here in America is, you know, so for Moses, Jethro gives this counsel, and it's not just counsel, but you're right, this is divinely from God.
[01:02:31]  And Moses heeds it and sees it as such.
[01:02:35]  He sees it as this is God speaking through my father in law, Jethro.
[01:02:40]  And so then Moses is commissioning the people.
[01:02:42]  So I like in Exodus 18, I think, has many overlaps and similarities to Acts chapter 6.
[01:02:49]  And what the apostles do in Jerusalem is they say it's incumbent upon the people.
[01:02:55]  You go and bring us seven men filled with the Holy Spirit, endowed with wisdom, these kinds of things.
[01:03:00]  And that's where we get Philip, that's where we get Stephen.
[01:03:03]  And they're different standards, although there's a lot of overlap in the characteristic of the standard itself from Exodus 18 and the standard given for the diaconate.
[01:03:12]  I see Acts 6 as a descriptive standard.
[01:03:15]  Text where we have the origin of the diaconate within the New Testament church.
[01:03:21]  But that said, there's some differences in the characteristics.
[01:03:24]  But the methodology, the method, the mechanism of selecting is that's where I think there's the most overlap.
[01:03:32]  It's the apostles saying, you, the church, you go and find the men.
[01:03:37]  Now, I take it by way of implication.
[01:03:40]  It's not explicitly said in the text, but I think it's not a necessary inference, but I think it's almost.
[01:03:46]  It's pretty heavy.
[01:03:47]  It's a heavy implication.
[01:03:48]  That if the church, for whatever reason, because they were, I don't know, immature or whatever reason, if the church brought seven men and six of them are, you know, Philip and Stephen type guys, but one of them is Donald Trump.
[01:04:08]  And, you know, and so they bring the men to the apostles who are also, you know, they kind of have a dual function here because they're seated as elders in this local church in Jerusalem, which was a massive church.
[01:04:19]  And so I take it by way of implication that the church itself finds the men.
[01:04:23]  The congregation is tasked with finding the men.
[01:04:26]  But it's the elders, slash in this case, apostles, but elders of the church who are saying a few things.
[01:04:32]  This is what kind of men.
[01:04:34]  Also, even the timing.
[01:04:36]  The elders choose when the men are needed.
[01:04:38]  We've decided that we need men now.
[01:04:40]  We've decided we need this kind of men.
[01:04:43]  We've decided we need this many.
[01:04:44]  So they also set the parameters, not just for the type of men, the standard, but also how many.
[01:04:49]  We want seven.
[01:04:50]  So, not five, not 10, seven.
[01:04:53]  But then I think it's implicit that the elders also maintain the right that if the people bring seven losers back to them, that they'll be able to say, try again.
[01:05:03]  No thanks.
[01:05:03]  Or we'll take six, but this other one, uh uh, Philip and Stephen are good.
[01:05:07]  These other four are good.
[01:05:09]  But then you brought me Donald Trump over here, uh uh, try again.
[01:05:12]  Surely you can do better.
[01:05:14]  In our system, and I think it's very, so what I'm trying to say is, I think that that is probably, And I recognize I'm using what's explicit, but I'm also inferring what is implicit.
[01:05:25]  I think that's similar to the Exodus 18 text that the people are tasked to find over tens and fifties and hundreds and thousands these leaders.
[01:05:36]  Moses is, you know, Jethro gives the count.
[01:05:38]  God speaks to Jethro.
[01:05:39]  Jethro speaks to Moses.
[01:05:40]  Moses now speaks to the people, and the people now take upon themselves the task.
[01:05:44]  They've got to bring the guys.
[01:05:46]  But I think that Moses maintained, at least initially, vetoing power, would be my position.
[01:05:52]  That Moses maintained, I would infer that from the text, vetoing power.
[01:05:55]  So, if one tribe, for instance, let's say the tribe of Benjamin brings to Moses, you know, some solid guys over tens and some solid guys over fifties and hundreds, but then they've got, you know, whatever size the tribe was at that time.
[01:06:09]  Let's say the tribe is 12,000.
[01:06:10]  So, then 12 guys who are going to be over thousands.
[01:06:13]  And those 12 guys, like, it's pretty clear that the tribe of Benjamin is colluding with one another and they bring 12 guys.
[01:06:22]  Corrupt, self serving, you know, guys who are going to try to just make the tribe of Benjamin be able to rip off his brothers, you know, the other tribes.
[01:06:29]  And these 12 guys are like mob bosses.
[01:06:32]  They're corrupt.
[01:06:33]  I think Moses would say, try again.
[01:06:36]  No, these guys don't meet the standard.
[01:06:38]  They don't feel bad.
[01:06:39]  Go ahead.
[01:06:40]  I think the scripture, the scripture, I'm sorry for cutting you off.
[01:06:43]  I think the scripture plainly teaches that there's a dual key, right?
[01:06:48]  It's like launching the nukes.
[01:06:49]  To give a guy power requires the approval of the people and of the existing officers, which is why.
[01:06:55]  It says, the apostles say, you know, you choose these people and we'll appoint them.
[01:06:59]  That's right.
[01:07:00]  Or in, in Moses, in, in Deuteronomy, a text where he's recounting, uh, the same thing.
[01:07:05]  Because in, in the Exodus text, um, I was talking to, uh, to William Wolfe about this.
[01:07:11]  He, he argued that the people didn't elect.
[01:07:13]  And I said, well, no, the Deuteronomy text does clearly teach that, that, that they elect.
[01:07:18]  Because it says, Deuteronomy 1.12 says, you know, uh, or 1.13 says, Moses is talking to people.
[01:07:24]  He says, choose wise, understanding, and knowledgeable men.
[01:07:27]  From among your tribes, and I will make them heads over you.
[01:07:30]  So it's a dual key, right?
[01:07:31]  It's his appointing.
[01:07:33]  And I think that constitutionally, that's the way things are supposed to be as well in terms of the electoral college.
[01:07:39]  Yeah, I was thinking the same thing.
[01:07:40]  It's like the people choose, but then the electoral college elects.
[01:07:44]  Right.
[01:07:45]  And even in our legislative bodies, you have elections, and then the legislative bodies are supposed to accept people in.
[01:07:51]  Right.
[01:07:52]  And so they could, on grounds of moral disqualification, refuse a person.
[01:07:56]  Or let's say the people elect a person to be elected.
[01:07:58]  There's an election, and then there's an inauguration.
[01:08:01]  Yeah.
[01:08:02]  Let's say the people elect a person who's 20 to the House of Representatives, the Constitution says 25.
[01:08:05]  It's a qualification, right?
[01:08:07]  And so, but the House and the Senate have the right to police their own membership, right?
[01:08:13]  And that's good.
[01:08:13]  And so, I agree.
[01:08:15]  And that idea, it requires two keys the people must choose and the rulers must accept.
[01:08:21]  Right.
[01:08:22]  That's good.
[01:08:22]  I agree.
[01:08:23]  So, with that, comparing it to our current system here in America, this is what I would say you, the people, so whether it's the elders, apostles saying it, To the Church of Jerusalem to do it with seven men filled with the Spirit, deacons, or whether it's Moses now commissioning Israel, the congregation, to go and do this with heads of tens and fifties and hundreds and thousands.
[01:08:45]  In both scenarios, there's a vetoing mechanism.
[01:08:49]  It has to be twofold it's the people, but then it's also going to be Moses, where it's the people and then it's going to be the apostles, elders are going to then confirm that selection.
[01:08:57]  We just appointed three deacons in our church and ordained them, and the people, Gave their consent, and we had a congregational vote.
[01:09:06]  And then the elders, we were the ones who actually laid hands, prayed, and ordained.
[01:09:13]  And so it was, yeah, it was both mechanisms working.
[01:09:19]  In our system, I view for a federal presidential election.
[01:09:24]  So I don't have the same view in terms of how this principle, so we both agree on the standard.
[01:09:30]  We're talking about how it applies, how this standard, the general equity of the standard, how is it utilized and applied in our current American system.
[01:09:38]  I don't have this conviction of the application across the board in every local election.
[01:09:44]  Some of this I'd have to give more thought to.
[01:09:46]  I've given particularly a greater degree of thought to this circumstance because this is where we are right now and what's going on in our times.
[01:09:54]  We have a presidential federal election.
[01:09:57]  The way I would apply the Exodus 18 standard is I would apply it to primaries.
[01:10:04]  That in the primaries, the people are tasked to bring to us, may the best man win.
[01:10:12]  You bring to us the best men that you can find, the most qualified.
[01:10:17]  With the highest caliber, best character, most gifted, you bring us the best men that you can find.
[01:10:24]  And so I would say that it's incumbent upon the Christian at the level of the primaries in a federal presidential election, at the level of the primaries before the general, to take the Exodus 18 standard and apply it and make sure that the Christians get together.
[01:10:44]  And the more unity we have, the better, because then we'd actually have more power.
[01:10:48]  To actually get things done, if we weren't all fractured with all of our own individual ideas.
[01:10:52]  But if you had all the Christians in this country getting together, applying Exodus 18 in the primary, saying, This is our Exodus 18 guy.
[01:11:00]  And then, of course, that's the guy that we fully intend to vote for in the general.
[01:11:05]  I would say the Exodus 18 standard applies the way that it applies in the primary, making sure that we bring our guy to the table.
[01:11:13]  However, if then our guy, because of Christless, Republicanism, you know, or all the rhinos or whatever, because of the current state of the country being filled with degenerates, even on the conservative side.
[01:11:28]  If for whatever reason our guy doesn't win the primaries, we get him there, but then he doesn't win the primaries.
[01:11:34]  And then in the general election, it's this other guy and he doesn't meet the Exodus 18 standard.
[01:11:40]  And now he's going in for the GOP nominee.
[01:11:45]  And then you've got, you know, a situation like we have now a Trump and then a Kamala.
[01:11:50]  Then, I think then it's a whole new ballgame.
[01:11:55]  Because you're going, here's the deal.
[01:11:58]  What I'm trying to say is this the guys who are heads over tens and fifties and hundreds and thousands, if they brought them to Moses and Moses said no, my question would be did those guys still get appointed?
[01:12:08]  Or did Moses' no count?
[01:12:10]  Because now that we're at a general election, you and I, our no doesn't count.
[01:12:16]  If we say, uh uh, like we tried in the primaries to bring an Exodus 18 qualified guy, you didn't like, Our guy, you gave us Trump instead, but he doesn't meet the Exodus 18 standard.
[01:12:28]  And because of that, we're saying no.
[01:12:30]  We're standing in as Moses now, and we're going to try to practice the vetoing power, and we say no.
[01:12:37]  What's going to happen?
[01:12:39]  We know what's going to happen.
[01:12:41]  One of those two people is still going to be president.
[01:12:44]  We don't get vetoing power.
[01:12:46]  That's not the way our system works.
[01:12:48]  Our system doesn't work the way that it worked in Israel.
[01:12:51]  But like the people could bring, and Moses could say, uh uh, this guy doesn't meet the standard, it's done.
[01:12:55]  Or in Acts, you know, the people could bring in the book of Acts and seven men, and one of them doesn't.
[01:13:00]  And the apostles say, No, he doesn't meet that.
[01:13:03]  In this case, we tried, we tried to bring our guy, an Exodus 18 guy, in the primaries, and then we lose.
[01:13:11]  And now there's going to be a general election with no, only two candidates, and neither of them meet Exodus 18.
[01:13:17]  So, and one of them will be president.
[01:13:21]  The option, the third option, it's not just Kamala, Trump, or third party, or voting, you know.
[01:13:27]  Down the ballot, but leaving the top blank in order to send a message, which I understand that strategy, holding your vote hostage, saying you have to earn my vote.
[01:13:35]  I get it.
[01:13:35]  I get all the arguments.
[01:13:36]  I get it.
[01:13:37]  And I even have some measure of appreciation and respect for it.
[01:13:42]  But in real terms, you can do all those things, but you're still going to get Kamala or Trump.
[01:13:46]  We don't get to say no, not in our system.
[01:13:49]  And so, for me, one of them is going to be president.
[01:13:51]  And so, this is what I told Ben.
[01:13:53]  And I'm sure you'll have a somewhat similar answer.
[01:13:55]  But what if, let's just say hypothetically, what if we get, it's already bad, but what if we get to the point in America, God forbid, hopefully there's revival before then, but what if we get to the point in America where one candidate, so they're both all the way up full term abortion, but the other candidate says, we think we're overpopulated.
[01:14:14]  And so, All Hebrew boys under the age of two, you know, but like, like, let's, let's, all American, all American boys, or let's say it's not all, let's say it's, we think we're overpopulated.
[01:14:31]  And so it's not just going to be boys, it's going to be boys and girls under the age of five.
[01:14:35]  We just had a baby boom and we're already overpopulated.
[01:14:38]  And so one of the policies that I'm running on is that we're going to cull the population and we're going to take.
[01:14:47]  Christian families.
[01:14:47]  You can make it as bad as you want.
[01:14:49]  Right.
[01:14:49]  We're going to go kill every single child under five years old, and especially the Christians.
[01:14:53]  We're only the Christians.
[01:14:54]  We're going to take them and we're going to kill them.
[01:14:58]  And I've got children in my household under five.
[01:15:03]  And then the other one says, that's atrocious.
[01:15:07]  Meanwhile, this person's fine with partial birth abortions where the baby's head is sticking out of the mom and you're bashing it with a hammer or injecting it with a syringe.
[01:15:17]  Which is insane.
[01:15:19]  That is insane.
[01:15:20]  It's wicked, absolutely wicked.
[01:15:23]  I'll vote for that guy doing that terrible, wicked thing to save my kids, my born kids.
[01:15:29]  Because the abortion here's the thing abortion is murder.
[01:15:32]  It's Molech worship.
[01:15:33]  It's just, you know, different time, different name for the God, but it's still human sacrifice.
[01:15:38]  It is sacrifice, sacrifice to the God of self, sacrifice to convenience.
[01:15:42]  And you could argue even further than that, not just sacrifice to gods of convenience and certainly the God of, of, of, Free, unmitigated sexual immorality.
[01:15:51]  That's one of the biggest gods.
[01:15:52]  But beyond that, I also think it is very much a human sacrifice and worship of demons because the demons are still around.

=== Election Risks and Racism (03:53) ===

[01:15:58]  They go by different names today, but it is still very much.
[01:16:01]  So it is demon worship.
[01:16:03]  And I'm fully on board for all that and calling it what it is.
[01:16:05]  And again, the difference between Trump and Kamala on the issue of life and numbers of babies saved is negligible.
[01:16:11]  Trump is pro abortion.
[01:16:14]  He's pro abortion.
[01:16:15]  You can't even call him pro life at this point.
[01:16:17]  He is pro abortion.
[01:16:19]  So, then my question is okay, so that issue, which is over my lifetime has always been the issue.
[01:16:24]  I've always been a single issue voter.
[01:16:25]  That has been the issue.
[01:16:26]  But that issue is now awash because both candidates are so absolutely atrocious and terrible.
[01:16:33]  It's just death or death.
[01:16:36]  So, for the first time in my life, I've, and all of this is novel for me.
[01:16:42]  And so I very much could be wrong, but I'm thinking through things that I've never thought before because for the first time, I'm having voting has been relatively easy.
[01:16:49]  It's just, hey, which person doesn't murder babies, right?
[01:16:52]  That's, that's, Pretty easy.
[01:16:53]  Well, now that everybody murders babies, I'm looking at different issues that I've never looked at before.
[01:17:00]  And one of the big ones is I'm looking at immigration.
[01:17:03]  And I'm looking at can we sustain another four years of another 20?
[01:17:10]  And that's just what we've counted, another 20 million, arguably maybe 30 or 40 million immigrants, many illegal, most illegal.
[01:17:19]  And then out of those who are illegal, many.
[01:17:23]  13,000, I think, were the data that just came back.
[01:17:27]  13,000 were murderers who were allowed to cross the border.
[01:17:31]  And not just that, but we know from multiple cities in our republic are outright saying they will not require any ID for voting in a national election.
[01:17:44]  They will not require a driver's, not even a driver's license, because it's racist and voter suppression, because we all know that, you know, black people can't figure out how to get a driver's license, right?
[01:17:53]  I mean, Democrats have always been the real racist.
[01:17:56]  Of course, they're not.
[01:17:57]  Somehow that sounds more racist than.
[01:17:59]  It's, of course, it is.
[01:18:00]  They're always, that's the irony.
[01:18:02]  They're always more racist.
[01:18:03]  I believe, actually.
[01:18:04]  That black people can get a driver's license.
[01:18:07]  So, anyways, but with all those things adding up, criminals flooding across the border, illegal immigration, opening the border far and wide, 20 million already, 20 to 30 million more, maybe 40 million if we get four more years with Kamala, the borders are, and all these different cities and more by the day following suit to say we won't require any ID in order to vote in our elections.
[01:18:28]  There's a very real possibility we never win another election again.
[01:18:32]  This is it.
[01:18:34]  We can never win.
[01:18:35]  We just don't have the numbers.
[01:18:37]  We've lost at a sheer level of.
[01:18:39]  Numbers games.
[01:18:41]  And then it's just a continued flood into the country.
[01:18:44]  Natural born citizens can't even get jobs because the only jobs available don't pay living wages because we've decided the GDP must go up and we've taken all the free and cheap labor from Mexico and El Salvador and Cuba and all these other different countries, not to mention the murderers and criminals.
[01:19:05]  So now I live in a border state, Texas, the Republic of Texas, and my wife and daughters.
[01:19:12]  Are in jeopardy.
[01:19:13]  They're at a park, and there's an increased risk factor to their physical safety because there are literal murders who have crossed the border and are in my state.
[01:19:24]  And I'm thinking about these things and I'm thinking Exodus 18, primaries, you bring your guy, but our country said no.
[01:19:34]  And now it's down to two guys, neither one meets the standard, but I don't actually have a, I don't get to say no, I don't get to veto both of these guys.
[01:19:42]  Our system doesn't function that way.
[01:19:44]  I don't get to come in and say, sorry, Trump and Kamala, neither one meets the standard, try again.
[01:19:48]  I don't get to do that.
[01:19:49]  One of them will be president.

=== Wealth Building and Safety (02:16) ===

[01:19:52]  And so now you can call it lesser of two evils, you can call it whatever label we want to use.
[01:20:00]  But yeah, that would be once it becomes the general national and especially a general national presidential election.
[01:20:08]  At that point, I would say that the Christian, it is permissible.
[01:20:14]  And I almost even want to say obligatory, but I will at least say permissible for the Christian to wield their vote in the direction of mitigating as much harm as possible.
[01:20:26]  Saying there's this much harm, and this much harm is on the ballot, and then this much harm is on the ballot, and I'm going to stop the difference.
[01:20:34]  I'm going to use my vote to stop, to mitigate that additional harm that would happen if we got commoners.
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=== Loving Neighbor Through Power (15:16) ===

[01:22:08]  America is a country that was founded for the purpose of allowing Christians to do their duty before God and not to have their consciences ruled by the doctrines and commandments of men.
[01:22:16]  Reese Fund exists in order to see the Ten Commandments properly applied, not just as a plaque on the wall, but to actually be used in business as though.
[01:22:24]  Their commandments from God that we're supposed to obey.
[01:22:27]  Our goal is to find businesses and to buy them and to build them up.
[01:22:32]  We want to find manufacturing businesses and use them to make sure that we can maintain our capacity to do things here.
[01:22:38]  Reef Fund, Christian Capital, boldly deployed.
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[01:23:00]  So keep your money with the brothers.
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[01:23:09]  So help us in the fight to end abortion and to stop the expansion of the gay global communist agenda.
[01:23:16]  Join us today at Paxmail.cc.
[01:23:20]  Again, that's Paxmail.cc.
[01:23:27]  So I think.
[01:23:29]  On a basic level, I believe that obedience to God brings blessings and disobedience to God brings curses.
[01:23:38]  And I think that if we, first of all, believe that Donald Trump is going to save us from the troubles or whatever, and we sin in order to get him into office, we are trusting in the arm of the flesh so that we can trust in princes.
[01:23:53]  I think if we say God's law is perfect, we're either going to be able to make an argument that demonstrates from God's law the lawfulness of.
[01:24:03]  Of going to a lower standard in certain circumstances.
[01:24:09]  Or we're going to say, oh, the law of God doesn't have that.
[01:24:13]  And therefore, we're not allowed.
[01:24:16]  And so, if scripture warrant is needed, if we're going, we believe that scripture is sufficient to teach us all the things we ought to do in the political sphere, and I confess that, then I'm going to say, I can't find that argument.
[01:24:34]  I think.
[01:24:36]  What we find is when they persecute you in one town, flee to the other.
[01:24:41]  That's what Jesus teaches to his disciples in a scenario where they have insufficient force to defend themselves.
[01:24:47]  We have the approved example of Purim, which is to covenant together.
[01:24:52]  Christians need to form civil covenants where they mutually train and defend and swear to defend each other.
[01:24:58]  And we need to be forming those locally, we need to be forming those across different spaces and having those covenanted bodies covenant together.
[01:25:07]  And so I think the idea of a Purim style resistance is what the Second Amendment is about.
[01:25:14]  And so I think that that's one thing, also lesser magistracies.
[01:25:19]  And so, and then the other thing is we use the prophetic voice to resist and we pray.
[01:25:25]  So we pray, we use the prophetic voice, we flee.
[01:25:29]  You know, your book, Fight by Flight, is essentially teaching the principle of flight, which is strategic retreat.
[01:25:39]  And then there's fighting.
[01:25:41]  And I want to say what we need to be doing is to be applying the law of God and refusing to vote for unqualified men and seeking to organize.
[01:25:50]  And I think that the problem is that we all kind of just want an easy answer for, like, what can I do right now to assuage my conscience and then move on to the next thing.
[01:26:02]  And what I'm saying is the presidential election is unworthy of any of our time or thought.
[01:26:07]  And that the only reason it's worthy of our time or thought is to help to avoid the idolatry, the state olatry, the prince worship that generally is occurring, and to push people to stop worrying about it and to go build something locally.
[01:26:23]  And that, in fact, the cheating, the shipping in of votes, the printing of votes, the whatever, all that stuff makes it so that the effect of the individual is insignificant in terms of their vote.
[01:26:40]  And so, what matters most is what can you do to honor God?
[01:26:46]  I would suggest this is sort of like: are we going to pinch incense into the fire?
[01:26:54]  You know, to honor Caesar, right?
[01:26:57]  This is insignificant.
[01:26:59]  I think that one is different, to be fair.
[01:27:01]  I hear what you're saying, and you're making a lot of great points.
[01:27:04]  I think the pinch of incense, because I've seen some guys liken it to that.
[01:27:07]  And my pushback on that would be that the pinch of incense wasn't just political and it wasn't just paying homage to Caesar, but it was worship.
[01:27:16]  You know?
[01:27:17]  Yeah, no, it's not a one to one.
[01:27:19]  I want Christians to understand I don't believe a vote is a sacrament.
[01:27:22]  I don't believe that a vote is.
[01:27:26]  Any more holy, not to say it's not holy, because I'd like to knock down a little bit of that wall between the secular and the sacred, but a vote is no more holy than if you're a soldier, each bullet in the chamber is holy.
[01:27:44]  You send the bullet in order to get a job done, to make a difference, and you cast a ballot, but it's not holy like a sacrament.
[01:27:56]  It's not sacred in that sense.
[01:27:59]  Whereas the pen of incis, I think that that was religious.
[01:28:04]  Sure.
[01:28:04]  So it's not an element of worship.
[01:28:06]  It's not a sign and seal of the covenant of grace.
[01:28:07]  I'm not trying to suggest that, but it is an act that has political expediency that would be sin, is what I was trying to.
[01:28:14]  That's the point of analogy I'm trying to make.
[01:28:16]  So I agree with everything you just said.
[01:28:17]  But I would say that how we govern is an ordinance of God.
[01:28:20]  It's not a sacrament, but it's an ordinance of God.
[01:28:23]  And bullets flying from a soldier's gun, if you're a soldier on the battlefield and you shoot unlawful targets because you think it has a tactical advantage, That would be sin.
[01:28:37]  You've got two towns, one you're at war with, one you're not, and you find destroying the town you're not at war with will give you strategic advantages to be able to then destroy the town you're at war with.
[01:28:46]  That would be wickedness.
[01:28:47]  It would be murder.
[01:28:48]  And so the way I would liken it, where you shoot the bullets matters.
[01:28:52]  There's an ordinance of God that governs who we're allowed to shoot, and there's an ordinance of God that governs who we're allowed to vote for.
[01:28:59]  And so in that way, everything should be done to the glory of God, and so everything should be holy in that sense.
[01:29:04]  But I do agree the difference between worship versus worship.
[01:29:08]  Versus not worship.
[01:29:10]  We glorify God in all of life.
[01:29:11]  Worship is a distinct, and we have to set apart times of worship.
[01:29:15]  You could say that all of life is worship in the sense that we're supposed to serve God in all of life, but there is a distinction between set apart times and not set apart times.
[01:29:23]  So I agree with all that.
[01:29:25]  So I just want to say, you know, is there, if I were pushing you, brother, and just said, what's the ordinance, what's the scripture warrant?
[01:29:33]  Like, make an argument for me that I have a duty to vote for Donald Trump as opposed to writing in Pastor Webin.
[01:29:42]  Pastor Webin won't win.
[01:29:45]  So the argument that I would make is we both agree on the standard.
[01:29:49]  The argument that I'm making is you said, well, you'd have to show me from the scripture another standard or lesser standard.
[01:29:57]  And what I'm saying, that's not my argument.
[01:30:00]  I agree with you that I think Exodus 18 is the standard for civil rulers.
[01:30:06]  What I'm saying is, I don't think that the standard applies.
[01:30:09]  So I'm not trying to change the standard or lower the standard.
[01:30:11]  That is the standard.
[01:30:12]  And I'm perfectly willing to admit that currently we have two candidates and neither one meets the standard.
[01:30:18]  My point is simply to say that that is the standard.
[01:30:22]  And that's what we should have in mind as our bar, as Christians, as we seek to get in every office, locally, especially, because that's where we have the most power, locally working with your city council and all these different things.
[01:30:34]  But then, even at a federal level, and, you know, with presidentially, trying to get someone who meets that standard of Exodus 18.
[01:30:44]  However, once we get to a general election, you've got two people, one of them is going to be it.
[01:30:50]  And I think that there are.
[01:30:53]  I think that there is a general biblical argument to be made for loving our neighbor with whatever power we do have, be it great or be it small, whatever power we do have at our disposal to ensuring that my neighbor is not defrauded, stolen from, murdered, raped, those kinds of things.
[01:31:20]  If I can make sure that my neighbor, in a country where all my neighbors, including myself, are already overtaxed, Which is theft, and inflation, which is another form of theft.
[01:31:32]  It is taxation.
[01:31:34]  The government prints these dollars so that they can justify the taxes, and then you just pay taxes on the other side.
[01:31:41]  And so, if my neighbor is being robbed, and my neighbor is potentially going to be raped, and my neighbor is potentially going to be murdered, and I have within my power, God has providentially provided for me an ability to stem that tide.
[01:32:00]  That I can ensure that my neighbor is robbed less and that my neighbor is hopefully less of my neighbors are murdered and those kinds of things.
[01:32:10]  Then I feel like I have a duty as a Christian to utilize the power that I have, the ability that I have to ensure my neighbor's well being.
[01:32:24]  Like, I mean, honestly, that would be my argument.
[01:32:27]  My argument would be a love thy neighbor argument.
[01:32:31]  Indeed.
[01:32:32]  Love my tangible neighbor and his tangible well being.
[01:32:36]  And I feel like right now with this election, Christians have an opportunity to love their neighbors or to stand by and watch a boot on their neighbor's face, stomping it into the curb and setting the stage through immigration and voting mechanisms to where the boot may never come back off, to where the neighbor actually.
[01:33:05]  May never be free again.
[01:33:08]  I think it's that serious.
[01:33:11]  I think if you were arguing with a liberal and they put forward that sort of love argument for some sort of a welfare state or some sort of other thing that you believe is an unlawful exercise of government, that you have jurisdictional and law order arguments for, and you'd say, well, there's a better way and we should look to the blessing of God and we should rely upon the lawful means.
[01:33:34]  Well, no, I think.
[01:33:35]  What I would do is I would say, I wouldn't just say there's a better way we should love our neighbor through God's jurisdiction or what.
[01:33:41]  It wouldn't be that.
[01:33:43]  I hear what you're saying, but.
[01:33:44]  It would also be just on the merits of if it was welfare, for instance, as a liberal, I would say it's not loving.
[01:33:50]  What you're describing is another definition of love.
[01:33:53]  So it's not just God hasn't permitted me to love my neighbor through that mechanism.
[01:33:57]  It's no, on its face, it's not loving, it's theft.
[01:34:02]  What you are calling love for one neighbor is enablement, and it's stealing from all these other neighbors over here.
[01:34:11]  It's actually, it is objectively, definitively, Uh, not loving neighbors that that's why that's the argument I would make with a liberal is like, well, I'm just looking out for these, this you know, this 17 year old girl who's not ready to be a mom, you know, and has to fly on a you know, a chartered flight paid by Governor Gavin Newsom with you know, paid lodging for the weekend and gets to visit the Pacific Ocean as she also has the procedure you know, paid for by tax dollars to rip the child out of her womb.
[01:34:39]  And I'm like, first, like cry me a river, that doesn't sound like that much of a sob story.
[01:34:43]  You're just saying now.
[01:34:45]  Because of Roe being overturned, that certain young girls will have to have a free vacation to California as they get an abortion.
[01:34:51]  So, one, you're really having a hard time playing on my sympathies.
[01:34:55]  And two, that's not loving.
[01:34:58]  You're killing a baby.
[01:34:59]  You're killing a baby.
[01:35:00]  I can't, you know, so that would be my pushback is I would just say, no, no, that argument won't work because what you're advocating isn't loving.
[01:35:07]  But in this case, what I'm advocating, we can debate whether it's through a lawful mechanism.
[01:35:13]  I hear you on that.
[01:35:14]  And there's a legitimate Argument to be made.
[01:35:16]  But what I'm arguing for is literally, I'm arguing for less rape, less murder, less theft.
[01:35:23]  Those things are objectively loving.
[01:35:26]  Yeah.
[01:35:27]  The welfare thing, too.
[01:35:27]  Like, if a person's hungry, feeding them is objectively an act of love.
[01:35:31]  It's just the mechanism you use it by.
[01:35:33]  So, obviously, not abortion or whatever else.
[01:35:35]  But, like, with the welfare state, like giving people money who are, you know, quote, in need, we believe that there's times when you need to give people a handout, right?
[01:35:44]  Like, that's, there's times when you give people things.
[01:35:48]  That they didn't pay for.
[01:35:49]  Now, doing it voluntarily through institutions that are not the state, those are things that are different there, right?
[01:35:57]  And so I think it is a law order process type of argument.
[01:36:00]  And so that's what I'm saying that by voting for an unqualified person, we are usurping authority over our neighbor and imposing upon them wicked rulers.
[01:36:10]  And if all Christians just did something different, like if we selected a different person to write in, then Donald Trump would certainly lose.
[01:36:22]  And maybe Kamala Harris would win.
[01:36:24]  But I'll tell you what, the Republican Party would start kowtowing to their Christians.
[01:36:29]  And that's a pragmatic argument, but that's just one thing.
[01:36:33]  There's the pragmatics.
[01:36:34]  I think God's law is more pragmatic.
[01:36:37]  But also, even if that's not the case, we can't make it, we don't want to go rely upon Assyria or rely upon Egypt to keep us safe.
[01:36:49]  We don't want to put our trust in princes.
[01:36:51]  We do what God's law tells us.
[01:36:54]  And I'm saying, God's law gives to us a limiter on the types of men that we are authorized to vote for.
[01:37:01]  We may not go further than lowering the bar by the standard that's given to us here.
[01:37:07]  We're not given any approved examples or necessary inferences that we can show.
[01:37:11]  Here's a time when we can vote for a man who is inferior to that.
[01:37:14]  And I'm saying we have the right in, and we should do it.
[01:37:17]  We should pray that God would use it.
[01:37:19]  May God raise up some rich Christian man with the resources to start advocating for a qualified Christian man.

=== Righteous Mitigation of Disaster (06:38) ===

[01:37:25]  Those are the kinds of things.
[01:37:26]  But our failures to properly prepare are not an excuse to sin.
[01:37:31]  I hear what you're saying.
[01:37:33]  If every Christian withheld their vote, you're right.
[01:37:37]  Republicans would.
[01:37:39]  Would the GOP get the message and absolutely want to kowtow to Christians?
[01:37:47]  But in 2028, you would have the Democrats would have an additional 30 to 40 million more voters.
[01:37:59]  And however many local ballot machines they can manage to get control over, or whatever.
[01:38:03]  Four more years, 20 million, four more years, 30, 40 million.
[01:38:10]  You're done.
[01:38:11]  And God is sovereign.
[01:38:13]  He can win by many or by few.
[01:38:15]  That's not by might nor by power, but by my spirit, says the Lord.
[01:38:19]  And it just may be God's will that America is done.
[01:38:22]  I mean, we don't deserve to not be done.
[01:38:25]  We totally, I mean, with all of our offenses and all of our disobedience and all of our rebellion, all our idolatry and all of our baby murder and all, I mean, that just might be the plan.
[01:38:37]  We don't guess at the sovereign will of God, but it could be that just.
[01:38:41]  We're done.
[01:38:42]  We're past the point of no return, and that's how it's going to go.
[01:38:45]  Because if every Christian withholds their vote, Kamala will win.
[01:38:50]  And then, yeah, that sends a giant message to the GOP.
[01:38:53]  But 2028, just looking at the numbers, looking at the data, it's too late.
[01:38:59]  The GOP gets to choose.
[01:39:00]  If God wanted to, could God cause people to rally around a right-in candidate?
[01:39:05]  And could that result in a right-in candidate winning?
[01:39:08]  Could God do it?
[01:39:10]  Yeah.
[01:39:11]  Is he capable?
[01:39:11]  Of course.
[01:39:13]  Yeah.
[01:39:14]  So if that's the lawful means open to us, however small the chance we think it might work, you know, that's what we should do, right?
[01:39:21]  I think it hindered the Lord from saving by many or by few, and therefore we should do our duty regardless.
[01:39:26]  Now, the other thing is, this could result in civil war, it could result in secession, it could whatever.
[01:39:30]  Like, however the Lord does any of these things.
[01:39:32]  That's what I'm betting on is succession.
[01:39:35]  So I'm not saying that we just like, just withhold your vote.
[01:39:39]  No, write in a qualified man.
[01:39:42]  And I'm just going to start the write in.
[01:39:45]  You know, Pastor Joel Webb and uh, uh, campaign.
[01:39:48]  So, so, but that, but that, but that right there, uh, the right in, and then secondarily, we, build things, we prepare to resist, we covenant with each other, and perhaps, I imagine some people listening to this, just a few of them maybe, uh, might think that the federal government is past the point of saving, and all it is is really a time game of how long until it overreaches into absolute tyranny.
[01:40:17]  And for those people, For those people, you know, if you already believe that, then the other thing you might also believe is that there is widespread cheating.
[01:40:30]  And if you already believe there's widespread cheating, then conscientiously do what's right and rely upon the blessing of God and then do all the other stuff because your vote for president is one of the most insignificant things that you do.
[01:40:44]  Do all the other stuff, build locally, you know, I'm with you on all the other stuff for sure.
[01:40:49]  You're absolutely right about that.
[01:40:51]  And get lesser magistrates at a very local level.
[01:40:53]  So I think I appreciate you letting me voice all of that and letting me push you on the scripture warrant.
[01:40:59]  And if there's anything else, I'm super interested in hearing anything else about the scripture warrant for what you think would be the reason for it.
[01:41:05]  It's just application.
[01:41:06]  For me, it's just application.
[01:41:07]  I agree on the standard.
[01:41:08]  I think that's the standard set forth in Scripture, Exodus 18.
[01:41:11]  I think it is the standard for civil rulers.
[01:41:14]  And I think the general equity of fearing God is fearing God.
[01:41:17]  So, all those things I agree on.
[01:41:21]  The only basically exception that I'm carving out is I'm saying, not in terms of what the standard is, but how the standards apply.
[01:41:30]  And I think that the standard applies to the primaries and doing everything we can to get.
[01:41:35]  A biblically qualified man on the docket.
[01:41:39]  But then once it comes down to two and your Exodus 18 guy has been knocked out and both of these two guys suck, but one is noticeably worse for your neighbors than the others, then I think it's permissible for a Christian to mitigate disaster in love of neighbor.
[01:41:58]  Can I ask one more thing before you gently give me the left foot of.
[01:42:04]  No, no, no.
[01:42:05]  No, it's fine.
[01:42:06]  It's fine.
[01:42:07]  You're a friend.
[01:42:09]  I did the same thing with Ben.
[01:42:10]  I've done the same thing with others.
[01:42:11]  I think it's worth talking about because honestly, we need to think about these things.
[01:42:18]  We've got to think about these things.
[01:42:19]  And maybe I'm wrong, but we've got to.
[01:42:22]  This is the big question that every Christian's asking.
[01:42:24]  So it's good to talk about.
[01:42:27]  So if you were trying to find some text, like a place where you could argue regarding anything, not just directly in the civil magistrate, but like if we did with any moral standard and we go, you know, you shall not commit adultery or you shall not murder, like with murder, we go, I can find exceptions for what I'm allowed to kill.
[01:42:45]  I can demonstrate just warfare.
[01:42:47]  I can demonstrate self defense.
[01:42:48]  I can demonstrate public justice.
[01:42:51]  So I go, okay.
[01:42:52]  And the word for you shall not murder, it really is kill.
[01:42:56]  It's not a word that only means murder.
[01:42:58]  When you look at all the usages of it, there are cases where the word is used to refer to justified killings.
[01:43:04]  So it's not, translating it as murder helps to get the meaning across to an English reader.
[01:43:07]  That's fine.
[01:43:08]  But the word is a broader word.
[01:43:09]  And so it's really the general rule is don't kill.
[01:43:12]  Here are the lawful exceptions.
[01:43:13]  It's a righteous thing to kill somebody in self defense.
[01:43:15]  It's a righteous thing to kill in public justice in some cases, and it's a righteous thing to kill in just warfare.
[01:43:19]  So you do that.
[01:43:21]  You find the exceptions.
[01:43:23]  With you should not commit adultery, you don't find exceptions to that one.
[01:43:28]  You might say, well, we have sexual laws that make it so we have laws of affinity and consanguinity, and we can find an exception to that with the leveret marriages, where there's this allowance for a person to get married to a person who's prohibited by the laws of affinity ordinarily.
[01:43:46]  In the event of the death of a brother, so you go, okay, so you got these kinds of places where you have the worked out exceptions in the law.
[01:43:53]  Is there anything where you can see, like, here's this rule, but when your choices are limited, you can now choose this thing that would ordinarily be sin?

=== Organizing Resistance Mechanisms (07:43) ===

[01:44:04]  Anything you'd want to push on about that?
[01:44:08]  I hear you.
[01:44:10]  No, I just think that there are different systems.
[01:44:12]  You can have a monarchy, and in the monarchy, the people, Well, it depends.
[01:44:17]  There are different variants.
[01:44:18]  But, like, let's say, you know, the people don't get a vote and it's, you know, this through this familial line.
[01:44:24]  And you get, you know, some king who is good, he dies.
[01:44:27]  His son is, you know, his son is a tool and wicked and evil.
[01:44:33]  And he becomes king.
[01:44:35]  You know, the people don't have any mechanism.
[01:44:37]  They can eventually, you know, there is, you know, the mechanism of resistance or fleeing, like we talked about before.
[01:44:43]  But there was no way to mitigate that disaster in terms of they didn't have a vote.
[01:44:48]  They just don't have a vote.
[01:44:50]  And, you know, but in our system, we actually have at our disposal a power of saying, yeah, I'm going to save a few, albeit a few babies, a lot, you know, I would argue billions, if not potentially even trillions of dollars being added to the debt.
[01:45:14]  Another, I mean, another big one is like World War III, Lebanon, Israel.
[01:45:22]  Iran, I mean, I've heard now that American boots are officially on the ground in Lebanon that happened just this last Sunday.
[01:45:36]  War is right on the edge, right on the edge.
[01:45:40]  And man, nothing brings war faster than a weak woman as the leader of the free world.
[01:45:50]  You might as well just sound an alarm to every dictator and every thug across the globe and say, Four free years for terror.
[01:45:59]  Four free years.
[01:46:00]  Go for it.
[01:46:02]  Now's, you know, the time is ripe.
[01:46:05]  There's a reason Putin didn't invade Ukraine under Trump.
[01:46:09]  There's a reason why the Abraham Accords and all these different things, you know, and it's complicated, but like, I mean, Trump should have been up for a Nobel Peace Prize just for his foreign policy, aside from taxes and aside from, so even just getting aside from the immigration and the danger to wives and to children and the taxes and the theft, like, Even I, yeah, I just struggle to see here's a mechanism,
[01:46:34]  a trigger that I can pull and potentially save thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, millions of lives potentially around the world.
[01:46:44]  Love all these neighbors here at home, which the Order of Morris, that's my first obligation.
[01:46:50]  But then even abroad, I can, I, helping with the, you know, the debt and national debt, helping with, at every single level, it's like, I don't, it's just crazy to think that the difference in this election is so, to me, is so stark.
[01:47:13]  I'm not that old, but I've been around long enough to look at, you know, different elections.
[01:47:18]  And other than 2020, I think this one is, I think 2020 was the election of our lifetime and it was stolen.
[01:47:27]  And then this is, this is, this is the one that's basically just trying to clean up the spill.
[01:47:34]  Like, you know, And so I don't know.
[01:47:37]  I don't know how to answer your question.
[01:47:40]  I don't know.
[01:47:41]  I just think you bring the candidates to Moses.
[01:47:45]  But what do you do?
[01:47:47]  What do you do when Moses gives you the standard from Jethro?
[01:47:53]  The people, you're the people, Israel, you go and you pick these guys.
[01:47:58]  But other people, your neighbors in Israel, they pick you know, you pick one guy that's Exodus 18, they pick two guys that aren't, and then you bring them to Moses and.
[01:48:10]  And Moses says, Your guy's out, and it's these two guys left.
[01:48:13]  Neither one meets the standard.
[01:48:15]  And then Moses turns it to you and says, What do you think?
[01:48:22]  I just don't see it like Exodus 18.
[01:48:25]  I think the general equity of the standard applies across the board for civil rulers, but the system and its application is completely different, in my opinion.
[01:48:37]  Sure.
[01:48:37]  So I think the general election, the people are bringing people to.
[01:48:42]  Electoral college and electoral college is fulfilling the Moses role, right?
[01:48:45]  And I think that they should refuse and they should just vote you in.
[01:48:50]  And so, if we can get the Electoral College to do that, that would be a big win.
[01:48:56]  And so, I think that I understand what you're saying.
[01:49:00]  And I really appreciate the opportunity to present on that other side.
[01:49:07]  And I think that we need to remember that when we are stuck with wicked rulers, we have the options of the prophetic voice, prayer, resistance, fleeing.
[01:49:19]  That's really good.
[01:49:20]  We need to be consolidating and we need to be studying Vindicii Contra Tyrannos and National Covenanting by Brian Schwartley and Divine Right of Resistance by Philip Kaiser.
[01:49:34]  And we need to be organizing and we need to be recognizing the fact that we are, across the next 20 years, there's either going to be a communist stamp down of the church in the United States or there's going to be a right wing pendulum swing.
[01:49:48]  And in either case, tyrannical power is going to be a problem.
[01:49:52]  And as a church, we need to be organizing and discipling because within about a 20 year period, we're having way more kids than other people are.
[01:50:00]  And I think there's going to be a significant shift in the power spectrum.
[01:50:02]  So we've got a 20 year window of like worrying about a fascist swing and a communistic swing and figuring out how do we restrain that wickedness and whether that's, you know, that's what we have to organize around.
[01:50:17]  And so that's what I'm concerned about.
[01:50:18]  And I want to see localized centers of power organized with Christians building those out.
[01:50:24]  So economics, church, Political, and I think that this is.
[01:50:31]  We, there's going to be a right wing pendulum swing or a communistic takeover.
[01:50:38]  If we as Christians can avoid that and somehow see the application of biblical rule or restraint of that in the interim across that period, I think we make it through a 20 year period of time.
[01:50:53]  We will have a significantly different electorate if we can try to be organizing around.
[01:50:59]  Uh, seeing Christian power put into place without an explicitly Christian civil government, though, we are just waiting to have the curse magnify enough to be destroyed.
[01:51:09]  Yep, so that's that's that's that's where I would go.
[01:51:11]  Just now, I think that so I thank you for talking about that, and maybe everybody will work with us to start building those powers up.
[01:51:18]  Amen.
[01:51:18]  All right, well, Mr. Reese, thanks for coming on the show.
[01:51:20]  This has been helpful and insightful.
[01:51:23]  You provided, I think, strong arguments, and I appreciate it.
[01:51:28]  I still plan on voting for Donald J. Trump.
[01:51:32]  But I appreciate it.
[01:51:33]  And I think, you know, from our listeners, you probably will win a few of our listeners over.
[01:51:39]  So well done.
[01:51:41]  Thanks for having me on.
[01:51:42]  And I appreciate your honesty and willingness to argue through stuff.
[01:51:45]  And the Lord bless you.
[01:51:47]  Thanks.