NXR Podcast - THE INTERVIEW - Where You Live Matters - with Contra Mundom
Aired: 2024-08-12
Duration: 01:00:35


=== Post-Millennial Exodus (15:07) ===

[00:00:00]  Applying God's Word to every aspect of life.
[00:00:04]  This is Theology Applied.
[00:00:12]  All right, welcome to another episode of Theology Applied.
[00:00:14]  I am your host, Pastor Joel Webben with Right Response Ministries.
[00:00:17]  And in this episode, I am privileged to welcome back to the show the co host of Contra Mundum.
[00:00:22]  We have CJ Engel and we also have Andrew Isker.
[00:00:25]  Guys, thanks for coming on.
[00:00:28]  Hey, Joel.
[00:00:28]  Thanks for having us, Joel.
[00:00:30]  So, right now, CJ, you're in the process of packing up and moving.
[00:00:33]  Yes, I am.
[00:00:34]  How are you feeling about that?
[00:00:35]  Probably bittersweet, huh?
[00:00:37]  It's very emotional.
[00:00:39]  Yeah, this is hard for me.
[00:00:41]  I remember when Andrew and I first started talking about it, and I was like, nope, can't convince me.
[00:00:46]  I'm a stone wall.
[00:00:47]  And then a few months later, I was getting ready to do it.
[00:00:53]  So, yeah, I'll probably be out there actually next week.
[00:00:56]  I'll be in Tennessee.
[00:00:57]  So, you're moving to Tennessee and you're moving from California, but it's bittersweet because it sounds like your family has been rooted there in California for a very long time.
[00:01:06]  So, you're leaving some of your home, your heritage.
[00:01:09]  The beauty and you weren't, it's not like you were living in San Francisco or LA, but you were in a more conservative county, right?
[00:01:15]  Oh, I'm still in the best area of California, right now.
[00:01:20]  And if I was judging my decisions based on the current state of things, I would be remaining.
[00:01:26]  I'm judging a 10 and 20 year time horizon, though, is what I'm doing, you know.
[00:01:30]  So the bubble gets smaller every day and I still love it here and it's just hard to move.
[00:01:36]  But I think this is a future strategy effort.
[00:01:39]  Is what I'm doing.
[00:01:40]  And also, like, you know, just the conviction of fighting alongside allied people.
[00:01:45]  The people here are great, but they don't really have a spirit of fighting, going on the offensive, things like that.
[00:01:51]  And I just need allies around me.
[00:01:53]  There's a lot of energy going in with Andrew.
[00:01:56]  He's already made his announcement, and Josh, who's made his announcement.
[00:01:59]  So I'm, I mean, this is sort of a soft announcement.
[00:02:02]  I haven't really done a video version of this, Joel.
[00:02:04]  So this is sort of exclusive news for your audience.
[00:02:07]  But yeah, I'm going to the same place.
[00:02:08]  I'm going to hang out with very good people, and I'm excited to, you know, engage myself.
[00:02:13]  In their life, and my family's excited to meet their families and all that.
[00:02:17]  So, this is good, optimistic things going on.
[00:02:20]  Great.
[00:02:20]  And what place is that in Tennessee?
[00:02:22]  What's the project?
[00:02:23]  What's the town?
[00:02:24]  Well, there's no announcement on the specific area yet, but it is general vicinity, middle Tennessee.
[00:02:31]  I mean, it's associated with Ridge Runner and New Founding, and I'm not affiliated with them, but I am a friend of Josh and Andrew and stuff too.
[00:02:39]  So, I'll let them make their more specific location announcement on their time.
[00:02:43]  Okay.
[00:02:44]  And then, Andrew, you're doing the same kind of thing.
[00:02:45]  So, CJ's leaving California, you're leaving Minnesota.
[00:02:49]  Yes.
[00:02:51]  Why would you want to leave Minnesota?
[00:02:54]  Well, you know, it's people are fine.
[00:02:56]  I mean, a couple weeks ago, if when I tell people, because I made my announcement like two, three weeks ago.
[00:03:02]  Yeah, you made it in our studio.
[00:03:04]  That's right.
[00:03:05]  I sat right where you're sitting right now and made that video there with the wonderful studio that you have.
[00:03:14]  I got some pushback from people like, why would you leave there?
[00:03:17]  It's not that bad.
[00:03:18]  And now, after Tim Walz has made the VP nominee for Kamala Harris, now people are starting to get exactly why I would want to get out of Minnesota.
[00:03:28]  It's just as bad, statewide at least, it's just as bad as California is, which is really saying something.
[00:03:36]  The area, much like CJ, the area that I live in my small town is very conservative.
[00:03:43]  Culturally, it's.
[00:03:45]  It is not like what you think of with Minnesota when you think of Tim Walz or Ilhan Omar or whomever else.
[00:03:51]  So, the local area that I'm in is great.
[00:03:53]  It's my home.
[00:03:55]  My family has been there for six generations in that town.
[00:03:59]  And so, like CJ, it's hard to leave.
[00:04:02]  I don't want to.
[00:04:04]  I would like to stay if I could.
[00:04:08]  And yeah, judging by the time horizons, the same way, 10, 20 years from now, the things that I would like to build are not possible in Minnesota.
[00:04:18]  They'll be destroyed.
[00:04:18]  Like we have the Attorney General of Minnesota, Keith Ellison, who is literally Antifa and a Muslim, and like just this.
[00:04:28]  Very radical far left guy.
[00:04:31]  I don't like having that guy be the attorney general who could destroy my life at any moment.
[00:04:38]  And very petty, vindictive people, they might want to, right?
[00:04:42]  If Contra Mundum gets as big as Right Response, then they're coming after me, even if we're half as big.
[00:04:49]  So, no, I wouldn't want that.
[00:04:53]  I don't want my children taken away.
[00:04:55]  If we went to the doctor and the Soviet style doctor asked my kid, hey, do you feel like a boy or a girl today?
[00:05:02]  And he is being silly and says, I feel like a girl.
[00:05:06]  And I say, No, he's not.
[00:05:07]  That would be grounds right there to have them taken away from my family.
[00:05:12]  It's that bad in Minnesota.
[00:05:15]  I don't want to live in a place where that is even the most remote possibility that my children could be taken from me and be mutilated by these freaks.
[00:05:24]  So, no, I can't live in a place like that.
[00:05:27]  I have to go.
[00:05:28]  I have to go somewhere.
[00:05:29]  And it's not just that I'm fleeing this bad environment, I'm fleeing this Soviet state.
[00:05:36]  It's also what CJ said.
[00:05:38]  I want to build something for my children, for my grandchildren.
[00:05:41]  I want to build institutions and a community that we can not only just survive in, but really thrive and have the things that previous generations just took for granted.
[00:05:57]  Yep, I get it.
[00:05:59]  I was pastoring, as you guys know, in California for a number of years, and my family and I, we left.
[00:06:05]  We left in December of 2020 and moved to Texas, where I was born and raised.
[00:06:10]  And so, coming back home, my wife's parents were here, my parents were here.
[00:06:15]  And so, there was family.
[00:06:17]  And then, also, just a state that is more conservative than California, at least for now.
[00:06:22]  And hopefully, we'll stay that way if we can limit immigration and do some better work on that.
[00:06:31]  But yeah, it's just thinking long term.
[00:06:34]  It's not.
[00:06:36]  It's not just where you live and what it's like today, but thinking, is this, what is it going to be like in five years?
[00:06:45]  What is it going to be like in 10, 15, 20?
[00:06:48]  And then thinking also about your children.
[00:06:50]  So, like my father in law, for instance, he was doing fine financially.
[00:06:55]  Economically, he and his wife had saved plenty of money.
[00:07:00]  He had done well with his vocation, and they were of retirement age and could have retired in Southern California.
[00:07:08]  San Diego County is where we were.
[00:07:11]  And they lived there also, but they moved in 2015, five years before we did, or no, 2013, eight years before we did, seven or eight years.
[00:07:21]  And the reason why was because his two daughters, not my wife, but her two sisters, the two of them and their husbands and their kids were struggling financially.
[00:07:32]  And he realized, I can stay here where we own our home and cash and where we've made a life for ourselves and we have a 30 year history and all this stuff.
[00:07:42]  I can stay here and financially I'm fine.
[00:07:45]  But I'm going to lose my grandkids because their parents, my daughters and their husbands, my sons in law, they cannot.
[00:07:56]  It's not that they're lazy, it's not some moral deficiency.
[00:08:01]  They cannot make enough money for the cost of living.
[00:08:06]  And so they're going to move, whether I like it or not, they're going to be going to flyover country.
[00:08:10]  They're going to be going to Kansas or Oklahoma or Texas or Tennessee or whatever.
[00:08:17]  And so he actually led the way.
[00:08:19]  The guy who had no personal need for my in laws, it's like, we've only got 10, 20 years left.
[00:08:29]  We could finish our days here and get to go to the beach and live in perfect temperature, perfect weather, San Diego, California.
[00:08:37]  But they were thinking about their children.
[00:08:40]  And so it wasn't even his daughters and their husbands that made the decision.
[00:08:44]  He actually was the one who brought it to the table and said, hey guys, I was thinking.
[00:08:49]  What if we all relocated together?
[00:08:51]  And here's a certain area in Texas where there's a lot of economic activity and jobs, and here's the cost of living, and it's more moderate and conservative in terms of its politics and culture.
[00:09:02]  And so he actually brought that decision as a father, not needing it himself, but thinking about the next generation.
[00:09:08]  And I think there's, you know, similar to what I hear you saying, CJ, and similar to you, Andrew, I think that's what a lot of people are starting to realize is, you know, when I first came out with my book, Fight by Flight.
[00:09:21]  You know, immediately everyone, you're a post millennial and you're a hypocrite because you're a coward and you're retreating.
[00:09:27]  It's like, you know, and then I saw you, Andrew, and the backlash, you know, that you got when you made your announcement two weeks ago about leaving, you know, same, same kind of thing, same, same backlash that I got with my book.
[00:09:39]  And, and I think part of it is that they're putting the impetus on cowardice.
[00:09:45]  You're not going to stay and fight, you know, like real men commit suicide, you know, like be a man, be a man and destroy your children's future, you know, like.
[00:09:56]  And I think that really is what it comes down to their view of courage is the same as a kamikaze pilot.
[00:10:05]  Their view of courage, it's a momentary one generation, it's all about me, next 15 minutes, courage.
[00:10:15]  Whereas we're thinking, like, well, no, I have children.
[00:10:21]  And one day, Lord willing, they'll have children.
[00:10:23]  And I'm thinking about if I stay here, where will my kids work?
[00:10:28]  And what house will they be able to afford?
[00:10:31]  What spouse will they marry?
[00:10:34]  And then their children, where will they go to school?
[00:10:37]  Like in San Diego at the time, I looked at all the classical Christian schools, and the average cost of tuition was 20 grand a year.
[00:10:45]  20 grand.
[00:10:46]  So it's like, I've got to make $300,000, $200,000 to be able to afford a house and feed my family, and then another $100,000 if I want to have five kids.
[00:10:57]  And so, for just their annual tuition.
[00:11:00]  And so, my My point is, I really do think that long term view, and I think a lot of post millennials, sadly, I'm post millennial, I'm not going to apologize, but a lot of them, when they talk about long term, they talk about 50,000 years and it becomes an excuse to do nothing.
[00:11:17]  But what I mean is, I'm not talking 50,000 years, I'm talking 20, 30, 40 years.
[00:11:23]  The guys who are thinking like that are the guys who are making the kinds of transitions and moves that we are.
[00:11:30]  And then the guys who are thinking Jesus is coming back next Thursday, Are the kamikaze pilots who is like, I'm just going to drive my plane into the heart of the beast.
[00:11:41]  And honestly, if you're a single man, go for it.
[00:11:44]  But I can't drive my plane with my four children and wife and fifth on the way into a flaming crash.
[00:11:53]  I can't do that as a Christian man.
[00:11:55]  Yeah, there's another layer of this, too.
[00:11:57]  I mean, as you guys know, I've studied a lot of Antonio Gramsci and the Frankfurt School and things like that.
[00:12:02]  And I've just, I've adopted, I've digested a lot of the lessons that this once very marginal left wing, I've adopted some of the things that they dealt with.
[00:12:13]  They had to struggle with this.
[00:12:15]  This hurdle of how does someone on the marginal left come into the mainstream of society?
[00:12:22]  And they've had to deal with that.
[00:12:23]  So, one of the concepts that came out of Gramscian thinking, sorry for my notifications, the Gramscian thinking is that there's a difference between a war of maneuver and a war of position.
[00:12:38]  And so, a lot of people have this Hollywood style, like we're in the trenches and we're throwing grenades.
[00:12:44]  That's not how politics actually works.
[00:12:47]  Actually, it works in real life.
[00:12:48]  He emphasized the fact that there's this element of a war of position, which is much more strategic, much more multi decades long.
[00:12:57]  I mean, what we see now around us with the left wing in complete domination of all the institutions is the fruit of 70 years of infiltration and positioning and strategic retreats and strategic moves.
[00:13:14]  And so, when we talk about long term, we're not talking about winning a few elections away.
[00:13:19]  We're talking about our grandchildren.
[00:13:21]  Types of soil do they have to grow up in in order to actually have an influential position to play?
[00:13:27]  And so I really want to digest that personally, and I want to make moves now that are going to pay off when I'm dead.
[00:13:34]  That's the war of position.
[00:13:36]  And I think that a lot of people are still true believers in the electoral democratic process.
[00:13:42]  And I think that that whole system of things is fracturing, and we need to look at what we need to think about on the other side.
[00:13:52]  Of that collapse of legitimacy of the US regime.
[00:13:56]  And I think that's where we need to put it, it's like a chess game.
[00:13:58]  You need to be looking decades down the road, not just how do we elect Donald Trump.
[00:14:04]  That's not strategy.
[00:14:07]  Perhaps it buys us some time, perhaps it helps us mobilize, perhaps it helps us recognize friends and enemies, perhaps it helps us shift the Overton window, but that's not actually institution building.
[00:14:17]  Institution building is beyond electoral politics.
[00:14:21]  And so I think that these sorts of long term moves are much akin to something like Daniel Boone.
[00:14:26]  I mean, the things that he did to blaze the trail and set new paths didn't pay off for a century.
[00:14:33]  That's what we're doing by going to Boone Country.
[00:14:36]  That's what we're doing by going to Tennessee.
[00:14:37]  We're doing that war of position.
[00:14:39]  And I think that's much more my mentality.
[00:14:42]  I'm not going to see the fruit of my labors.
[00:14:44]  But if I don't labor now, neither will my grandchildren.
[00:14:47]  Yeah, that's what Joel said earlier, too, makes me think of another group of people who were also post millennial and left a place.
[00:15:01]  And went and founded a new place, right?
[00:15:05]  The Puritans, the Pilgrims, they left England, right?

=== Church Planting Ambitions (08:04) ===

[00:15:08]  They're being persecuted.
[00:15:09]  And would you say, oh, oh, you're not really post millennial because you can't handle the king putting in the star chamber, putting you in prison and cutting off your ears?
[00:15:17]  When I think of Cotton Mathers, I think coward.
[00:15:20]  You know what I mean?
[00:15:21]  Total coward.
[00:15:21]  Yeah.
[00:15:22]  Yeah.
[00:15:23]  And because, like, they went to a place, I mean, a totally foreign, unknown territory with very hostile people that they had to go to war with to survive.
[00:15:36]  And even in the first couple of years before those wars began, they had to go to war with nature itself.
[00:15:43]  They nearly all starved to death in the first winter.
[00:15:48]  And the idea that these people would be cowards when they went to go found a new nation in a new place, having no idea whether they would survive or not, they were not cowardly in doing that whatsoever.
[00:16:05]  And so I look at it.
[00:16:06]  In those ways, right?
[00:16:07]  Sometimes you do have to leave a place in order to build the things to win, right?
[00:16:15]  That's how I look at it.
[00:16:16]  We want to win, right?
[00:16:17]  We want to, I don't, winning is not me just going and being a martyr in Minnesota.
[00:16:23]  Because, like, if I'm a martyr there, right?
[00:16:26]  If Keith Ellison finds me and throws me into jail for whatever reason, you know, are these people, the people that are criticizing me, or the same people that criticize you, Joel, Right, they would be mocking me for going to jail.
[00:16:40]  Yeah, right.
[00:16:40]  They would be like, what a loser.
[00:16:42]  This guy went to jail, right?
[00:16:43]  Yeah, they're not gonna come bail you out.
[00:16:45]  No, right?
[00:16:46]  Oh, one of Andrew Isker's kids got transced.
[00:16:49]  Ha ha ha.
[00:16:49]  Isn't that so funny, right?
[00:16:50]  That's how they would act if that happened to my family.
[00:16:54]  They don't care about me or my family.
[00:16:55]  So they're not saying, hey, brother, stay and fight with us, and we'll link arms with you and help protect you and your family.
[00:17:05]  We'll fight right alongside you.
[00:17:07]  That's not what they're saying.
[00:17:10]  They're saying, hey, stay and fight and front load all the cost personally and just do it.
[00:17:20]  And you're going to do it with me?
[00:17:21]  No, no, you just need to do it.
[00:17:24]  And so, yeah, it's silly.
[00:17:27]  It's not a good faith, the people that make those arguments.
[00:17:30]  One of the things I said when we were in Ogden at the New Christendom Conference in my talk was I said, you know, I'm looking at kind of a big picture and what evangelicals.
[00:17:41]  And not just evangelicals, conservatives, I think, in a larger sense, but evangelicals in particular have done for decades now, at least the last 20 to 50 years, arguably, is instead of winning somewhere or winning something, we opted for winning nowhere and winning nothing.
[00:18:01]  And one of the ways that we did that, one of the chief ways, is by spreading our forces and our resources far too thin.
[00:18:09]  So whether it was global missions, We're going to reach Uganda.
[00:18:14]  Yeah, but all your kids grew up and became apostate.
[00:18:17]  Like you lost your own children in the process, right?
[00:18:21]  Or, okay, we're going to plant churches in urban cities and contexts.
[00:18:30]  Okay, but did Tim Keller disciple New York?
[00:18:34]  Or in the final analysis, did New York disciple Tim Keller?
[00:18:42]  Urban church planting.
[00:18:44]  And then what happened in the church planting movement that I was a part of, I was an Acts 29 guy, and churches planting churches.
[00:18:50]  And I mean, the Bible absolutely speaks positively of planting churches, provided that we do it biblically and with prudence and wisdom and qualifications.
[00:18:57]  But what happened a lot was in the church planting movement, as I saw it, was everybody was promoted precisely to the level of incompetence.
[00:19:06]  So if a guy would have been a good church member, you made him a deacon.
[00:19:09]  If he would have been a good deacon, you made him an elder.
[00:19:12]  If he would have been a good elder, you made him a church planter.
[00:19:15]  And church planting, really, in a lot of ways, guys don't want to admit this, but in a lot of ways, it wasn't so much motivated by evangelism and a heart for winning the lost, but it was more so motivated for a chance to be in charge.
[00:19:31]  I want, you know, I'm not content to be the associate pastor and just do faithful, good work supporting another man's ministry for the next 20 years.
[00:19:39]  I've got to be able to do my own thing.
[00:19:44]  I need to be the primary leader and I want to preach more.
[00:19:47]  And I want to, those were the motivations.
[00:19:49]  Like, because you could have a church of 10,000 people, and I'm not a huge fan of churches that size, but just theoretically, you could have a large church and still have just as many of those people.
[00:20:00]  In positions of eldership, discipling and counseling and pastoring and shepherding people.
[00:20:06]  And you can create all these other contexts of Sunday school classes and things like that where there's some public teaching capacity.
[00:20:13]  But the one thing that you can't scale that I've realized when it comes to growing the size of one individual church, the one thing you can't scale is whether the church is 10,000 people or 10 people, there's still only 52 Sundays in a year and one pulpit.
[00:20:30]  And so, if you've got young guys who want to preach, whether they're actually called to or qualified to or not, those guys are going to gravitate towards church planting because that's their ticket.
[00:20:43]  That's their ticket to being able to preach.
[00:20:44]  So, global missions, church planting, and all these things.
[00:20:47]  My point is that the big picture was it seems as though we spread ourselves super, super thin.
[00:20:54]  And then what we did was we covered all the bases.
[00:20:57]  It's like instead of winning the Battle of Bunkers Hill, we fought all of the battles and on all the fronts at the same time.
[00:21:05]  And we lost about 95% of them.
[00:21:08]  We went and fought every battle and just got demolished.
[00:21:12]  We're getting demolished in California and in Uganda and over here.
[00:21:16]  And the fruit came back in after 50 years of this strategy.
[00:21:21]  And the reality is, I think we just have to call a spade a spade and just admit the truth.
[00:21:26]  All the fruit was short lived.
[00:21:27]  Like there is very little lasting, sustained fruit.
[00:21:32]  And so now, lo and behold, right?
[00:21:35]  And we're criticizing guys for this.
[00:21:37]  Of course, this is the natural conclusion.
[00:21:39]  What are guys thinking in a nutshell?
[00:21:41]  What they're thinking is instead of spreading too thin, been there, done that.
[00:21:45]  I've been alone fighting in California, alone fighting in Minnesota, alone with my church plant of 30 people, my church plant of 70 people.
[00:21:52]  I've been a missionary over here, you know, in Uganda alone, and I've done that.
[00:21:56]  So, what are guys thinking now after 50 years of being alone, spread out as operatives all over the map, and everybody getting just punched in the face repeatedly and losing?
[00:22:06]  They're thinking, what if we regrouped?
[00:22:08]  What if instead of spreading out, we joined up?
[00:22:11]  And so you have a bunch of people wanting to go and live in one community, the same community in Tennessee to build not just little ministries and not just a podcast, but to actually build institutions like businesses, schools, think tanks, all these kinds of things that would actually have staying power.
[00:22:35]  You've got Eric Kahn, like he moved to Ogden.
[00:22:38]  He was pastoring his own CREC church, but slugging it out and being as faithful as he could.
[00:22:44]  But then he realized, you know, he didn't like it at first, just like CJ, you know, at first was like, I don't want to leave my home.
[00:22:50]  This is where I'm amped.
[00:22:51]  But then he realized, no, man, I need comrades in arms.
[00:22:55]  And so he moved and fell back.
[00:22:57]  I think we've got a lot of guys who are behind enemy lines, they've been out there just on suicide missions for years.
[00:23:04]  And I think it behooves spiritual fathers in this current cultural and political moment to say, come back home, son.

=== Overcoming Political Conflict (13:43) ===

[00:23:13]  It's okay.
[00:23:14]  It's okay.
[00:23:14]  You're not a coward.
[00:23:15]  It doesn't mean that we lost the war.
[00:23:17]  But it is okay to concede on that battlefront temporarily today to fall back, to rebuild, regroup, and we'll take it tomorrow.
[00:23:27]  That, like, if the only theological category you have for that is cowardice, then you are not a father.
[00:23:34]  You are, we have countless teachers, but few fathers.
[00:23:38]  You are a fatherless teacher exasperating your spiritual sons, and shame on you.
[00:23:47]  Right Response Ministries 2025 conference is a go.
[00:23:51]  This is three days, full, jam packed conference with eight main sessions, three to four hour and a half long panels.
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[00:26:06]  I think that there's, um, The cowardice thing is really interesting to me because I think it assumes too much about the guarantees.
[00:26:17]  There's an assumption in American life that America is sort of exempt from history and that we don't actually have to deal with it, we don't have to actually approach it, we don't have to think politically at all because America is exempt.
[00:26:29]  We've transcended the historical problems of politics.
[00:26:33]  And because we're in a democracy, because America was free and always will be free, that's its own sort of.
[00:26:39]  Cowardice because you're not willing to deal with the realities of political conflict.
[00:26:43]  You're not willing to deal with the.
[00:26:45]  This is what, like, my phrase, and you know, you guys can make fun of me, like, optimism is cowardice, but there's a certain aspect of cowardice that shows up in apathy that we actually don't want to face reality.
[00:26:56]  Everything's going to be fine.
[00:26:57]  We have Jesus on our team.
[00:26:59]  Things will be all right.
[00:27:00]  We don't need to take any action at all.
[00:27:01]  We don't need to think in terms of conflict and struggle and the clash of good versus evil, the clash of friends and enemies.
[00:27:10]  We don't have to deal with all that because we live in a liberal democracy and we've overcome the past.
[00:27:15]  We've overcome political problems.
[00:27:17]  What we're seeing right now is the triumph of the political and the return of history.
[00:27:24]  And these are things that I don't think the normie conservative, the evangelical elite, is willing to face because they're the cowards.
[00:27:32]  They're not willing to think in terms of political conflict and the conflict of civilizations, the conflict of cultures, the fact that there is no peaceable way that we can deal with these struggles.
[00:27:45]  There has to be some sort of clash, some sort of political, even violence is always there behind the veil, ready to spring forth.
[00:27:53]  That's what we're seeing in London right now.
[00:27:55]  Is the inevitability of human nature and violence.
[00:27:57]  And these things are always there.
[00:27:59]  We can't overcome them because of the limitations of man and anthropological concerns.
[00:28:06]  So I think that that's where the cowardice lies is trying to delude ourselves that we can transcend history.
[00:28:14]  Yeah, yeah, you're absolutely right, CJ.
[00:28:18]  I think so much of it too is I see this even with, you know, there's people where they like, look at my book, right, The Boniface Option.
[00:28:26]  And I've had people give it to friends and family members and things like that.
[00:28:31]  And they read the first few pages and they're just like, I refuse.
[00:28:35]  I refuse to believe things are actually that bad.
[00:28:39]  Things aren't that bad.
[00:28:41]  You're nuts.
[00:28:42]  Things aren't that bad.
[00:28:43]  Things are fine.
[00:28:45]  Everything that happened in 2020 was just normal.
[00:28:48]  We're all back to normal now.
[00:28:50]  We've returned to normal life.
[00:28:52]  And what they don't understand is that what they consider normal life is the aberration.
[00:29:00]  Right?
[00:29:01]  Normal life is the aberration where you don't have to worry too much about politics.
[00:29:04]  Where it's like, ah, Democrats win, Republicans win, right?
[00:29:07]  They're going to fiddle around with tax rates, and my family will be fine, right?
[00:29:12]  I'll go to my job, and I'll be in the different clubs and things, and have the same social life, and we'll just watch football on Sundays, and things will be fine.
[00:29:25]  I'll just continue living like we always have.
[00:29:26]  Like, that's not reality, right?
[00:29:29]  Reality is like the normal life that you had.
[00:29:33]  That was forged over centuries of conflict, right?
[00:29:36]  The normal idea that Americans love liberty and freedom and this well ordered society, right?
[00:29:42]  Somebody had to make that over generations.
[00:29:45]  And you thought it just was the default position of the world, and it's not, right?
[00:29:50]  The idea that you live in a society where people will always put their shopping carts back, right, is not the default position of the world, right?
[00:30:00]  That social structure of something even as trivial as that.
[00:30:04]  Somebody made that.
[00:30:06]  People made that.
[00:30:06]  They forged that and created that.
[00:30:09]  And it came through the historical process.
[00:30:10]  It came through history, through politics, right?
[00:30:13]  People fighting over political matters, right?
[00:30:15]  That's how you had this well ordered, freedom loving society.
[00:30:21]  And it's going away.
[00:30:23]  And it will continue to go away until people take a stand to rebuild it, until Christians take a stand to rebuild what has been lost.
[00:30:32]  And you're not able to do that by yourself or even in places like Minnesota or California.
[00:30:39]  And in your church and in your small community.
[00:30:41]  Like where I live in Minnesota, in my town of like 9,000 people, it's a great town.
[00:30:49]  They're great people.
[00:30:49]  My church is awesome.
[00:30:51]  The people in my church are, I love them.
[00:30:54]  Like I die for every single one of them.
[00:30:57]  The problem with the town and the problem with Minnesota is that nobody wants to admit things are as bad as they are.
[00:31:04]  Like all the images people see right now of how bad it was in 2020 with Tim Walz.
[00:31:09]  All the things on fire and all the trans stuff and all of the abortion stuff that he's done and wants to do to the whole country.
[00:31:17]  People just forget about that.
[00:31:18]  They just get gaslit and it's out of their mind, and they just think about the Vikings or they just think about their golf game.
[00:31:24]  They don't care about these things.
[00:31:26]  People don't want to fight for it because they assume, in the same Spanglerian optimism is cowardice way, they assume that things will always be okay because we're America.
[00:31:37]  Exactly.
[00:31:37]  And they won't, they will not be.
[00:31:41]  Things will always be okay because we're America, and I'm just going to live out my life here.
[00:31:46]  Yeah, maybe I'll pay some high taxes.
[00:31:48]  Maybe there'll be all sorts of trans pride parades down my street.
[00:31:52]  But I'll be okay, right?
[00:31:54]  Because I'm brave and I'm taking a stand.
[00:31:56]  And they don't take any stands at all, right?
[00:31:57]  The people calling me a coward, right?
[00:32:00]  I went to the, when they were trying to pass the abortion bill in Minnesota, and they did pass it, right?
[00:32:06]  When they're trying to pass it, and abortion up till birth for any reason whatsoever, right?
[00:32:13]  I went to the Senate hearing and spoke against it.
[00:32:16]  And there were, you know how many other pastors came to that meeting?
[00:32:22]  I mean, there's thousands of pastors in Minnesota.
[00:32:24]  You know how many other pastors came to that meeting to speak against it?
[00:32:27]  Zero.
[00:32:28]  Not one.
[00:32:29]  Not a single one.
[00:32:31]  So people are calling.
[00:32:32]  I stood up there.
[00:32:33]  I told them that God will judge each and every one of you for doing this.
[00:32:37]  Right?
[00:32:38]  You are murdering babies.
[00:32:39]  But Andrew.
[00:32:39]  He will judge you for it.
[00:32:41]  But you're going to.
[00:32:41]  And they call me a coward.
[00:32:44]  But you're going to vote for Trump.
[00:32:45]  You don't really care about the unborn.
[00:32:47]  Yeah, apparently not.
[00:32:49]  Yeah.
[00:32:49]  Yeah.
[00:32:50]  Like, I don't want the man who did that to my state.
[00:32:53]  Right.
[00:32:53]  And I mean, the horror of this.
[00:32:56]  There have been.
[00:32:57]  Charlie Kirk tweeted out something in the last day.
[00:33:00]  As we're recording this, that since that bill, each year, there have been eight babies that were born alive in botched abortions where they just let them die on the floor, right?
[00:33:13]  That is horrible.
[00:33:15]  Just to think that they would allow that, they would do that, they would pass this bill and make this happen.
[00:33:22]  And they want to make that the law in the entire country is, I can't let that happen.
[00:33:27]  I don't want to let that happen.
[00:33:29]  And so, yeah, on that topic, no, I'm not going to, I'm going to vote for Trump.
[00:33:32]  I want him to win.
[00:33:33]  And not in the way that CJ is talking about, that people think, oh, well, the electoral process will work.
[00:33:38]  We'll get, well, things will swing back the other way and Trump will win and things will go back to normal.
[00:33:42]  No, like if Trump wins, that is going to buy us a little bit more time.
[00:33:48]  Right.
[00:33:48]  Right.
[00:33:48]  That's why I want him to win.
[00:33:49]  Not because I think, oh, he's going to be the mega savior and he's going to fix everything for us and it'll be so great.
[00:33:55]  No, I want him to win.
[00:33:57]  I want him to fight our enemies so that we can build the things to actually retake ground in our country.
[00:34:03]  Mm hmm.
[00:34:05]  Yep.
[00:34:05]  So let's talk real quick here at the end about Tim Walz.
[00:34:10]  Andrew, you and I have talked about this a lot.
[00:34:11]  Like, there is, well, first of all, there's a lot of like establishment factoring going on, right?
[00:34:18]  So, in the Republican Party, obviously, there's the more populist base versus the establishment neoconservative base or the constituency, the elite.
[00:34:29]  And then in the Democrat Party, it's the same thing.
[00:34:31]  There's the old pro Israel, Hillary Clintonite Democrat Party.
[00:34:36]  And then there's the new rising.
[00:34:39]  Like pro or anti Israel faction, right?
[00:34:41]  This is none of them are like pro America, they're either like pro Israel or pro worldism.
[00:34:48]  Um, yeah, so I think that's I think the AOC crowd is kind of gaining momentum in the Democratic Party, and I think that was that strategic choice.
[00:34:56]  I mean, that was ultimately what was going on there.
[00:34:58]  It's like that new, I mean, Tim Walz is like one of the most, um, like subverted, like pathetic, um, you know, political actors in the Democratic Party because he's so obviously like just, um, He's got no opinions of his own, no thoughts of his own.
[00:35:13]  He stands for absolutely nothing.
[00:35:15]  He's just completely like a sponge and he just absorbs everything that power wants him to do.
[00:35:22]  So it's like he's one of the most pathetic political actors.
[00:35:25]  I mean, Biden's pathetic in a medical sense, but he's pathetic in just the absence of it.
[00:35:31]  At least Biden in his prime, he was always creepy and just incredibly stupid, but he at least had this sense of, I want to get something out of this personally.
[00:35:40]  I don't even think Tim Walz goes there.
[00:35:42]  He just has, there's no functioning brain there.
[00:35:45]  He's just purely.
[00:35:46]  Sponge like, and he absorbs whatever he's told to do.
[00:35:49]  You're supposed to put tampons in boys' bathrooms.
[00:35:51]  Okay, I'll do that.
[00:35:52]  That's a good idea.
[00:35:53]  I support the LGBT community.
[00:35:55]  Like, he's this guy.
[00:35:57]  I mean, he makes you say that Biden at least had the ambition of, like, hey, I'm going to lie, cheat, and steal and make millions of dollars for my family.
[00:36:07]  Like, he had the ambition of starting a crime syndicate, you know, those kind of things.
[00:36:11]  Like a Pelosi type ambition, you know, a Clinton type ambition.
[00:36:14]  But you're saying Tim Walz, like, he's not doing it for millions of dollars.
[00:36:18]  He's getting nothing.
[00:36:19]  He's literally just doing it for the attaboys.
[00:36:20]  He just, it's just, yeah, approval.
[00:36:22]  Probably speak more to that.
[00:36:24]  Just approval.
[00:36:24]  He just wants someone to pat him on the back and say, good boy, good boy, good boy.
[00:36:27]  Exactly.
[00:36:28]  Yeah.
[00:36:28]  That's sad.
[00:36:29]  Yeah.
[00:36:29]  I think, yeah, I mean, I'm sure he's probably getting some kind of kickbacks and things like that.
[00:36:34]  But, um, but no, I mean, I think CJ.
[00:36:37]  Not Biden kickbacks, though.
[00:36:38]  That's a whole nother level.
[00:36:39]  Maybe not to that level.
[00:36:40]  Yeah.
[00:36:41]  Um, I mean, he, you'll see in the coming weeks, like the connections that Walls has to China, too.
[00:36:47]  So maybe, maybe there.
[00:36:48]  Um, but, but nevertheless, no, CJ's right that, that he's just this cipher.

=== The Approval Trap (06:00) ===

[00:36:56]  There is nothing, there's no there there at all.
[00:37:00]  He is this far left ideologue.
[00:37:05]  He'll do whatever the in vogue thing is.
[00:37:08]  I mean, 30 years ago, when he was a teacher at Mankito West High School, which is 20, 25 minutes from my house, he proudly started the Gay Straight Alliance in the high school.
[00:37:26]  He's very proud as one of the football coaches to be able to support openly gay students.
[00:37:34]  This is the 90s he's pushing this.
[00:37:37]  Very far left for that time, very transgressive in that period.
[00:37:43]  But in the upper Midwest, in Minnesota, you've always had these liberals, these left wing people who would push these things.
[00:37:52]  And the way they do it is we're just nice and friendly.
[00:37:56]  We just want to have love and tolerance, and we want everyone to love each other, right?
[00:38:02]  He embodies that kind of thing, but it's also in this Yellowstone meme way, right?
[00:38:07]  Where it's like, oh, look at me, I'm going out hunting, I'm this Midwestern guy, I'm just this, I kind of look like a farmer, and he's not.
[00:38:15]  It's so, so fake.
[00:38:19]  He is such an evil man.
[00:38:22]  I mean, the things that he did during 2020, I mean, setting up this snitch line.
[00:38:28]  To put people in jail for violating the lockdowns.
[00:38:32]  There's a friend of mine who went to 90 days.
[00:38:36]  She went to prison for 90 days for opening up her coffee shop because it was going to go to business otherwise because of his lockdowns.
[00:38:44]  And while he's prosecuting her and people like her for opening their businesses, he's letting riots go crazy in our streets.
[00:38:53]  He's this embodiment of anarcho tyranny.
[00:38:57]  He wants that for the entire country.
[00:38:59]  Kamala Harris wants that for the entire country.
[00:39:02]  They want us to be prosecuted for leading normal lives.
[00:39:05]  They're a perfect team when you think about it.
[00:39:07]  One presides over the country being burned down, and the other one bails out anybody who's punished for it.
[00:39:13]  Like, I mean, Kamala and Tim really are a match made in heaven.
[00:39:17]  It's almost romantic because it's like these guys have been partners in crime for the last four years.
[00:39:23]  Like, all the way back in 2020, they may not have had the plan all the way along and known that they were going to be seeking the Oval Office together.
[00:39:30]  But all the way back in 2020, I mean, they were alley oop.
[00:39:35]  Tim's like, here's the oop, the alley, and there's the oop.
[00:39:38]  And so he's like, hey, I'll turn a blind eye as my entire city, an entire state is burned to an ash heap.
[00:39:46]  If you know, we'll make sure that no one gets arrested, and if anybody slips through, you know, our policy and actually does face some kind of penalties, and Kamala can swoop in and help donate, you know, by drawing attention and retweeting, you know, and all this kind of stuff, you know, this far left activist group to provide bail for thugs.
[00:40:06]  So, yeah, yeah, and that is, I think Tim has been in the mix for a lot longer than people realize, right?
[00:40:15]  Right after the debate, when I was like, I think he might be.
[00:40:19]  He might be a figure in this.
[00:40:22]  We should pay attention to that.
[00:40:23]  The reason I said that, he was doing all the talk show circuits and everything like that, even before the Biden Trump debate, where I'm like, God, that's a little weird that he's getting the limelight right now.
[00:40:34]  What's going on there?
[00:40:36]  So I think there's been a plan for a while.
[00:40:39]  I mean, these people are stupid, but they're not that stupid.
[00:40:43]  And no, he is such an evil, wicked man.
[00:40:48]  I can't overstate.
[00:40:52]  What a horrible, horrible person and leader he will be.
[00:40:57]  But in terms of winnability, and CJ, I'll turn it to you.
[00:41:00]  I mean, Josh Shapiro would have been the better choice, right?
[00:41:04]  In terms of the nation as a whole?
[00:41:07]  Well, I don't think so.
[00:41:10]  I don't think it would have been a better choice at all.
[00:41:12]  I don't think their plan has nothing to do with conventional electoral politics.
[00:41:16]  Yeah.
[00:41:17]  First of all, I mean, there's a couple of layers.
[00:41:19]  Andrew and I had a fun little back and forth on our show.
[00:41:23]  But.
[00:41:25]  I think that there's something much more dramatic.
[00:41:27]  I mean, whether it's the Charles Haywood theory about how they know Trump's going to win and they're going to do an old fashioned coup and get the power back, or whether they're going to actually fortify the election.
[00:41:36]  I think, whatever way you slice it, Kamala Harris is extremely unpopular and extremely repulsive.
[00:41:42]  Like, very few people like her.
[00:41:44]  There's a lot of Democrats.
[00:41:46]  Yeah, exactly.
[00:41:47]  I mean, that's pretty good, Isker.
[00:41:50]  Yeah, I know.
[00:41:50]  I've been working on it.
[00:41:51]  I've been working on it.
[00:41:52]  But I don't think that they.
[00:41:54]  I don't think that there's any benefit to either one of these individuals.
[00:41:59]  It's going to make people say, okay, Kamala Harris would be a decent leader of our nation.
[00:42:05]  I don't think that's what they're going for at all.
[00:42:06]  Yeah, there's no constituency there for either of them in a real sense.
[00:42:10]  Like there would have been for Bill Clinton in the 90s or whatever.
[00:42:15]  And yeah, so you're right about that, that they want to install her as president.
[00:42:20]  Do you guys see the Jamie Raskin video?
[00:42:24]  There's a video of Representative Jamie Raskin.
[00:42:27]  Do you guys see that?
[00:42:28]  No.
[00:42:30]  Yeah, you need to see it.
[00:42:32]  I don't know where this was.
[00:42:33]  It was private or something like that.
[00:42:35]  He's talking about how if Trump wins, right, we need to exercise the 14th Amendment.
[00:42:40]  Oh, yeah, I saw.
[00:42:41]  He was like getting mad at the court, the Supreme Court, and saying, like, yes.
[00:42:45]  Now you made us the bad guy because what's going to happen on January 6, 2025, is that we're going to have to call in, I think he said, like, call in the armed guard and disqualify him.

=== Raskin's 14th Amendment Plan (03:18) ===

[00:42:56]  And disqualify him.
[00:42:57]  And.
[00:42:58]  No.
[00:42:59]  And there's going to be riots in the streets and blah, blah, blah.
[00:43:01]  But, like, but yeah, he would, none of this was hyperbole on his part.
[00:43:05]  Like, he, you know, he, he meant it.
[00:43:07]  He was serious.
[00:43:08]  Yeah.
[00:43:10]  100%.
[00:43:11]  And so, to CJ's point, I mean, that might be in the cards for them if some other thing, like war or whatever else, isn't also something.
[00:43:21]  I mean, you have like three or four carrier groups in the Persian Gulf now, or in the Red Sea and Persian Gulf, right?
[00:43:31]  They're certainly on this posture.
[00:43:32]  I mean, everybody probably saw last week when all the gay bars in DC emptied out and all the Domino's pizzas got really busy.
[00:43:41]  That's always the.
[00:43:42]  All right, we're on the verge of war, a signal around the Pentagon.
[00:43:47]  But no, I mean, anything can happen in the next couple weeks.
[00:43:52]  I mean, we were forgetting like a month ago, Donald Trump got shot at and got shot, right?
[00:43:59]  That we all saw that happen, right?
[00:44:02]  And I don't think it was just random.
[00:44:04]  Oh, the guy found his way onto the roof.
[00:44:06]  Like, we've seen with the Secret Service, and it's like they basically led him up there.
[00:44:11]  All but like January 6th, the cops opening the gates and like waving him in like a third base coach, right?
[00:44:18]  It's all but like that, right?
[00:44:20]  And so they wanted him dead.
[00:44:22]  People wanted him dead.
[00:44:23]  Somebody wanted him dead.
[00:44:24]  And at least one person did, if not many.
[00:44:28]  And so they're going to continue to escalate on these things.
[00:44:31]  They do not want to let him become president.
[00:44:35]  And so you're right, CJ.
[00:44:36]  Like, yeah, maybe they do that.
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[00:46:12]  My final question is just what does Tim Waltz gain?

=== Winning or Losing Everything (14:20) ===

[00:46:14]  So, like, I could see how, like, a Josh Shapiro, and I understand what you guys are saying.
[00:46:18]  You're saying, Joel, you silly.
[00:46:20]  You silly boomer.
[00:46:22]  You're thinking about strategies of electability.
[00:46:24]  Democrats, these are not democracy loving people.
[00:46:28]  They literally, the front run, their presidential candidate right now is someone who is completely unelected.
[00:46:34]  So, you know, so I get point taken.
[00:46:36]  That's a good point.
[00:46:37]  So you're saying whether they rig an election or whether they just force it on January 6th, you know, whatever, you know, say Trump can't, sorry, he can't be president.
[00:46:44]  However, they're not thinking about electability.
[00:46:46]  However, my question, I think, still stands.
[00:46:50]  If that's the case, if it's not about getting someone who's deemed as more moderate, if it's not about electability with the VP pick, then what does Tim Walz accomplish?
[00:47:03]  What's good about him being picked in the mind of the regime?
[00:47:07]  Yeah, let me answer this quick, and then CJ, you can correct me if I'm wrong.
[00:47:12]  But it's more like when the Soviet Union chooses its apparatchiks to put into power.
[00:47:19]  That's what this is.
[00:47:22]  It's like a new Soviet premier, or not the main guy, but maybe the couple down below.
[00:47:28]  It's the Politburo being picked.
[00:47:30]  That's what's going on.
[00:47:33]  They see, or at least they perceive, they think, We basically can do whatever we want as a regime, right?
[00:47:42]  We don't need the consent of the people, right?
[00:47:44]  We can manufacture that with the media.
[00:47:48]  We can install whoever we want in office.
[00:47:50]  It's almost like a humiliation ritual, right?
[00:47:52]  We'll put these people who are repulsive, that everybody actually hates, we'll put them in office and they get to reign over everybody, right?
[00:47:59]  That's, I think, what's going on.
[00:48:01]  Maybe, yeah, go ahead, CJ.
[00:48:02]  I could be wrong.
[00:48:03]  Well, I think Walls has proven his fealty to the regime.
[00:48:07]  I mean, he has, he's, He's demonstrated that on every narrative, every priority scale, he's been there as the top dog ready to enforce what needs to be enforced.
[00:48:17]  That's number one.
[00:48:18]  I think number two is so that they can do a bunch of gaslighting.
[00:48:21]  They can say, there's no war on white America.
[00:48:24]  We love middle Americans.
[00:48:25]  Look who we selected as our vice president.
[00:48:27]  Look at this fat, balding boomer, and that's our vice president.
[00:48:30]  I think there's a massive layer of gaslighting at play here as well.
[00:48:35]  Okay.
[00:48:36]  That actually makes a lot of sense, especially the fidelity, the loyalty.
[00:48:41]  Factor.
[00:48:41]  I didn't think about it in those terms because I was thinking if it's just a victory lap, if it's just rubbing it in the faces of anybody who has eyes to see what's going on, then pick AOC or Ilhan Omar or you know what I mean?
[00:48:56]  There's a number of people that could do that just as much as Tim Walz, like be the spit in America's face, if not even more so.
[00:49:04]  But that makes sense because AOC, I mean, she's terrible, but she doesn't strike me as a team player.
[00:49:12]  She doesn't strike me as like.
[00:49:14]  Yes.
[00:49:15]  Yes.
[00:49:15]  Whereas Tim Walz, like literally, is like a, it's almost like a golden retriever got trapped in the body of an old white guy.
[00:49:26]  Like, I really think that, you know, I could see him on all fours.
[00:49:30]  You're giving him too much credit, Joel.
[00:49:32]  He is not, I love dogs.
[00:49:34]  I love golden retrievers.
[00:49:35]  I want to talk about dogs.
[00:49:36]  But my point is, I could just, good boy, good boy, here's a treat, you know, and like, you know, for four years, what CJ's saying is just, hey, what if you locked people in your homes?
[00:49:45]  Yes, I'll do it.
[00:49:46]  You know, like what if you close down all the churches?
[00:49:48]  Yes, I'll do it.
[00:49:49]  Hey, hey, almost like that, those, that, that prankster show, you know, where it's like they're whispering, you know, in a microphone from another room.
[00:49:55]  They're like, hey, put tampons in the fourth grade boys' bathroom.
[00:49:58]  And it's like, I bet you Tim Walz will do it.
[00:50:01]  You know, Mikey, Mikey likes it.
[00:50:02]  He'll eat it, you know, and, uh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:50:04]  And so that makes a lot of sense of just, um, we have a plan for communist America and, uh, we're going to pick somebody who, for the last four years, uh, anything we say, he'll do.
[00:50:16]  Yeah, he's a good little soldier for them.
[00:50:18]  He is.
[00:50:19]  He's always, I mean, he was my congressman when I was in college and was in office until he became governor.
[00:50:28]  And everything Obama wanted, he did.
[00:50:33]  Right.
[00:50:33]  And he's been a good little soldier every step of the way.
[00:50:36]  And so this is an apparatchik who is being rewarded for faithful service.
[00:50:39]  I mean, part of it, too, I mean, some of it.
[00:50:41]  That makes sense.
[00:50:41]  If you've seen like the movie The Death of Stalin, I mean, what has gone on in the Democratic Party at the highest levels is kind of like that.
[00:50:48]  Right, Joe Biden is Stalin, he dies, and now it's this scramble to take over power.
[00:50:53]  And who's gonna fill these gaps?
[00:50:56]  And it's all those behind the scenes kind of palace coups that are taking place.
[00:51:01]  And some of it, though, I mean, I want to end us on a white pill here because that's what I like to do.
[00:51:08]  It's cowardly.
[00:51:10]  CJ is a cowardly.
[00:51:10]  No, I know.
[00:51:12]  I know.
[00:51:12]  But I think some of it is anyone in the Democratic Party that has a future, anyone that has potential to run in 2028, refuse to be Kamala's VP.
[00:51:24]  That's part of my thought is Josh Shapiro trying to have a future.
[00:51:30]  I think he turned her down.
[00:51:30]  I mean, it's going back.
[00:51:32]  There's reports both ways.
[00:51:33]  Like she turned him down, he turned her down.
[00:51:34]  How do we know?
[00:51:36]  There's a lot of skeletons in that guy's closet.
[00:51:40]  He covered up the death of a family or the girlfriend of a family friend, labeled it a suicide, where she was stabbed like 20 times, like twice in the back of the head, and it was called a suicide.
[00:51:53]  So that scandal would have had some legs.
[00:51:56]  And his IDF service was also a big red flag within their own party.
[00:52:03]  It maybe would have made Michigan a Trump's.
[00:52:07]  Red state for sure.
[00:52:09]  And so there's considerations like that.
[00:52:12]  But I think Kamala and her candidacy is just so toxic that all the big shots in the Democratic Party just hedge their bets.
[00:52:20]  They're like, no, I don't want to be associated with that.
[00:52:23]  If you're going to lose, I want to lose on my own terms.
[00:52:29]  So that's why Newsom never was interested.
[00:52:33]  Whitmer, many of these other people, I think they just want to run in 2028.
[00:52:38]  Makes a lot of sense.
[00:52:39]  That means Trump wins, CJ.
[00:52:43]  He won last time, too.
[00:52:45]  Do you think.
[00:52:47]  Do you think?
[00:52:48]  I'll end it with this.
[00:52:50]  Iska and CJ, just take like 15 seconds.
[00:52:53]  Two part question.
[00:52:54]  One, will Trump win?
[00:52:56]  And two, will he be president?
[00:52:59]  Nice.
[00:53:03]  Well, so I'm going with no on both.
[00:53:09]  Mm hmm.
[00:53:11]  Yeah, I'm going with fortification or some emergency that's going to prevent the process from taking place.
[00:53:19]  Something where they have to, you know, declare some, you know, big response to the fact that democracy is under threat by Trump and Putin or something like that.
[00:53:30]  So I can see something extraordinary happening.
[00:53:34]  So I don't, I don't, I think that there's going to be a lot more funny business this time.
[00:53:37]  They also don't have the same mechanisms.
[00:53:41]  That they're capable of doing to fortify things like they did in the very specific county level shenanigans that happened last time to pull it off.
[00:53:50]  I don't think they're going to be able to do the same thing.
[00:53:51]  So it's going to have to do something much more like world historical, you know, some sort of emergency.
[00:53:57]  But I think that they've got something up their sleeve beyond just a fall on the sword, let Kamala just take the L.
[00:54:05]  I don't think they're going to do that.
[00:54:07]  Okay, Andrew.
[00:54:10]  I mean, I. Certainly, I think that something like that could happen.
[00:54:14]  I'm always open to that possibility, right?
[00:54:16]  They have a lot of power and they're very stupid and very evil.
[00:54:20]  So, that combo is very dangerous.
[00:54:24]  But I think it's still very possible, right?
[00:54:32]  Why do I think like 2016 happened?
[00:54:35]  And I remember seeing the New York Times on election day, their election ticker where it said 98% certain.
[00:54:42]  That Hillary's going to win.
[00:54:43]  And then I watched all that evening as it went further and further and further until it was 100% Trump.
[00:54:49]  So it's happened in the past.
[00:54:52]  Now, the demographics eight years ago were different.
[00:54:57]  A lot of Trump voters are dead now and they're going to vote for Kamala.
[00:55:06]  But no, I think that he is much more popular than he was in 2020.
[00:55:12]  I think he's more popular than he was in 2016 now just because we've seen what the regime has done to us for four years.
[00:55:20]  The fact that every time I go to the grocery store, I want to vote for Trump more each time.
[00:55:27]  Right.
[00:55:28]  It is, it's, it's, and everybody feels that across the country, unless you're an insane left wing wacko.
[00:55:35]  I've been more radicalized over the last four years.
[00:55:37]  I think much of the country has been.
[00:55:40]  And I think we're at a point where people understand that either we win this or the country's done, it's over.
[00:55:51]  And they've always said that every single election, it always is fake and stupid.
[00:55:57]  But this time, it's real, right?
[00:56:00]  This time, it's different.
[00:56:02]  This time, it is different, right?
[00:56:03]  We had 10 million people cross the borders over the last five years, right?
[00:56:07]  Last four years.
[00:56:09]  Well, that's just what they counted.
[00:56:10]  What, 9 million, 10 million?
[00:56:12]  I think a third or less than a third was legal, and that's highly suspect.
[00:56:17]  And then two thirds, it's illegal, and that's just counted.
[00:56:19]  It easily could have been 15 million.
[00:56:22]  It is not hyperbole or exaggeration.
[00:56:26]  That doesn't even count like anchor babies or anything like that.
[00:56:31]  Exactly.
[00:56:32]  15 million.
[00:56:33]  And it hasn't been a full four years.
[00:56:36]  So the next four years, if you get a Kamala presidency, what I keep telling people is easy, you're getting 20 million in the next four years.
[00:56:44]  Easily 20 million.
[00:56:45]  It could be 30, it could be 35.
[00:56:48]  And so what you're looking at is never winning another election again.
[00:56:53]  Like you're just not.
[00:56:54]  Because they're all going to be Democrat voters.
[00:56:57]  This is the simplest way to think about it.
[00:56:59]  Regardless of a person who's coming into the country.
[00:57:02]  Regardless of their stance on the unborn, regardless of their stance on taxes, or their stance on traditional marriage or whatever, here's one thing that you can be sure of chances are that they're going to vote for whatever party will let their family and friends come in the country too.
[00:57:20]  And that's going to be, in the same way that evangelicals historically have been single issue voters on the issue of life, most immigrants are going to be single issue voters, the issue being who will let in my friends and family?
[00:57:35]  And that will always be Democrats.
[00:57:37]  Um, even if the GOP says, and I know the GOP sucks, don't you know, please don't you know, don't fool yourself.
[00:57:43]  I'm very aware, but but my point is, you know, uh, they're always going to go for whoever will let in the most.
[00:57:49]  And so, so anyway, so um, for four more years, if we if we get Kamala and Tim Walz, um, I think we've had 15 maybe 20 million uh have come across the border in this term, in Biden's term.
[00:58:01]  I think we get 20 maybe 30 that come over the border, and you're talking about you know, a total population of barely over 300 million people.
[00:58:08]  So at that point, you're talking.
[00:58:10]  Legitimately, 20% of the country, and that's not all immigrants, that's just immigrants in the last eight years.
[00:58:18]  Now, if it's 2028, you're done.
[00:58:20]  You just, you.
[00:58:22]  Yeah.
[00:58:24]  You're done.
[00:58:25]  You'll never win another election again.
[00:58:27]  And you certainly won't be abolishing abortion.
[00:58:29]  That has been firmly removed off the table.
[00:58:34]  Yeah.
[00:58:35]  You're done.
[00:58:36]  100%.
[00:58:37]  And so, yeah, I'm, but Trump's going to win.
[00:58:40]  All right.
[00:58:41]  I'm with you, Andrew.
[00:58:43]  I'm with you.
[00:58:43]  My goodness, CJ, I am so glad.
[00:58:46]  I'm grateful for your ministry.
[00:58:47]  You're smart.
[00:58:48]  Your insight is helpful.
[00:58:50]  You're well read.
[00:58:51]  And in God's merciful, kind providence, He gave you Andrew as a co host.
[00:58:55]  Because if it was two CJs, I mean, if I listened to one of those episodes, I just feel like I would, like, I'd just be popping pills in a bathtub.
[00:59:02]  You know, just I lose the will to live.
[00:59:06]  You got to have the Andrew.
[00:59:07]  It's the yin and yang, you know, to balance out, you know, the positivity.
[00:59:11]  Like, just, you know, shout out to James Lindsay.
[00:59:13]  In order for us to further the dialectic, we need to keep this in an antithesis.
[00:59:19]  Sorry.
[00:59:19]  Right.
[00:59:19]  Amen.
[00:59:20]  That's right.
[00:59:21]  That's the dialectic of history.
[00:59:22]  And so I'm there.
[00:59:23]  Providing that fodder so we can further our goals.
[00:59:27]  Praise God.
[00:59:28]  All right.
[00:59:28]  Well, thank you guys.
[00:59:29]  Seriously, thank you for all that you do.
[00:59:31]  And I'm excited for both of you guys, your families, personally, being able to make this transition.
[00:59:36]  I think, yeah, it's bittersweet.
[00:59:39]  You're both leaving your home.
[00:59:40]  You're both leaving a place that is not somewhere where you just lived the last six months, but you've lived there.
[00:59:48]  The funny thing is that Kamala Harris is from California and Wallace is from Minnesota.
[00:59:53]  Isn't that funny?
[00:59:53]  And so here, Andrew and I are leaving.
[00:59:56]  Respective states, in order to fight, you know, to lead an opposition.
[01:00:01]  Well, you know what won't be funny is if you leave Kami Harris, California, and Tim Walz, Minnesota, and you get to Tennessee, but then they end up being president and ruling over us.
[01:00:14]  Don't say that.
[01:00:16]  Don't say that, Joe.
[01:00:18]  Dear God, please don't let that happen.
[01:00:20]  So, all right, well, thank you guys so much.
[01:00:22]  We'll be praying for you with your transition, and I'm hoping that what the Lord does over.
[01:00:27]  The coming years and decades in Tennessee with the project there and Ridge Runner, that it bears lots and lots of lasting fruit.
[01:00:33]  So thanks for coming on the show.
[01:00:35]  Awesome.