NXR Podcast - THE FRIDAY SPECIAL - DMT & The Astral Realm | Ep 3 with @TheCultishShow
Aired: 2024-07-19
Duration: 47:19


=== Poisoning Flesh for Higher Knowledge (04:38) ===

[00:00:00]  DMT, dimethyltryptamine, is a powerful psychedelic compound found in various plants and animals, as well as being synthesized for recreational and ceremonial use.
[00:00:10]  It is known for its intense hallucinogenic effects, which can include profound alterations in perception, consciousness, and spiritual experiences.
[00:00:17]  Although it is difficult to find information on this subject, there is a growing movement of individuals who are attempting to use DMT in order to make contact with entities who are described as those who inhabit the astral realm.
[00:00:29]  This ritual is Far beyond the mere recreational use of drugs, which is still incredibly dangerous and harmful in itself, but those who use substances such as DMT are not simply searching for an experience of physical pleasure.
[00:00:42]  In almost every case, this movement utilizes DMT as a part of some spiritual or mystical practice.
[00:00:48]  Their true aim is to commune with beings from beyond our physical world in an attempt to acquire secret knowledge, skills, dark magic, and power.
[00:01:05]  All right, here we are.
[00:01:05]  This is episode three DMT and the astral realm.
[00:01:09]  And Andrew, why don't you just start us off by?
[00:01:13]  We were talking a little bit as we were preparing to record this episode, and it would be helpful to give some guidelines, some boundaries in defining terms.
[00:01:22]  Pharmakia.
[00:01:24]  What is, as a Christian, right?
[00:01:27]  Like we're not Christian scientists.
[00:01:29]  Like if I take an aspirin, am I in sin?
[00:01:32]  Like what does the Bible mean when it talks about pharmakia being like witchcraft and those kinds of things?
[00:01:39]  Yeah, absolutely.
[00:01:40]  So, pharmakia, at least as I see it described in the Bible, would be the poisoning of someone's body through substances in order to achieve a higher knowledge or contact with entities, which is an abomination to the Lord.
[00:01:55]  Can you say that again?
[00:01:56]  That's a really helpful definition.
[00:01:57]  Say it one more time.
[00:01:58]  Yeah, pharmakia is the use of substances to poison your body in order to, let's say, thin the silver cord of your consciousness or this material realm in order to access a spiritual realm to get.
[00:02:14]  Higher knowledge through entities, right?
[00:02:17]  And a secret knowledge.
[00:02:18]  A secret knowledge, exactly.
[00:02:20]  Yeah.
[00:02:20]  So that's what pharmakia would be.
[00:02:22]  And we would see that use being done by the ancient pagans in various methods of, you know, ingesting plants or maybe even glands from animals in order to poison yourself to get near death experiences, really, to contact entities.
[00:02:37]  The ancients or Native Americans.
[00:02:39]  Yeah.
[00:02:39]  Peyote, right?
[00:02:40]  Peyote.
[00:02:40]  Yeah.
[00:02:41]  How do you say it?
[00:02:42]  Peyote.
[00:02:42]  Peyote.
[00:02:43]  Yep.
[00:02:43]  That would be an example of a hallucinogenic drug that would give.
[00:02:48]  Experiences.
[00:02:49]  But I think what God's really getting at is that truth cannot be found in these substances, right?
[00:02:56]  There's what you would quote unquote call a higher level of knowledge or secret knowledge that's not necessarily true knowledge.
[00:03:03]  Because what do we find all throughout the scriptures?
[00:03:05]  Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom and knowledge, not poisoning the body that God gave you in order to contact entities to give you information, really.
[00:03:15]  Right.
[00:03:15]  It's good.
[00:03:16]  Yeah.
[00:03:17]  Yeah.
[00:03:17]  And so this is again talking about what you'll, worldviews.
[00:03:20]  Do come in.
[00:03:21]  So, talking about one versus two, what you end up having is that if you believe you have a view of oneism, you have, there's no distinction between creator and creation.
[00:03:32]  All is one or all is self.
[00:03:34]  So, you end up worshiping the self.
[00:03:36]  And the way to expand upon yourself is to expand your consciousness.
[00:03:40]  And the goal is to ascend.
[00:03:42]  At least that's the attempt.
[00:03:44]  Now, what I want to also lay a foundation one of the biggest difficulties is why that worldview collapses in on itself is because.
[00:03:53]  There is no truly true way to ascend because wherever you go, there you are.
[00:03:58]  So, when you're trying to go through all these processes to ascend, how where exactly do you ascend to in a worldview of oneism where all is one and all is self and self and there's no distinctions?
[00:04:13]  So, that's one of the reasons, too, is that when you have a lot of the interviews that we've had with new agers and they've tried everything from astrology to divination to all sorts of spells and sorceries.
[00:04:27]  One of our old interviews, like she believed she went to the Mayan temple in 2012 and her and everyone in like white, white robes believed that they were going to ascend into 5D consciousness.

=== Separating Soul from Material Realm (07:58) ===

[00:04:38]  Like that came and went.
[00:04:40]  And then was the next thing and the next thing and the next thing.
[00:04:42]  Our, uh, my good friend Will Spencer, uh, who's been on our podcast multiple times.
[00:04:46]  And shout out to the Renaissance of Men.
[00:04:48]  He's talked about where he did multiple ayahuasca ceremonies back to back to back.
[00:04:54]  And so, but still, it ended up craving and longing for the next trip, per se.
[00:05:00]  And I know Will.
[00:05:01]  I've been on his podcast.
[00:05:03]  Yeah, I like him.
[00:05:03]  Yeah, shout out to Will.
[00:05:05]  But here's where it gets interesting because when it comes to this topic, again, another thing from a worldview standpoint, but again, people embracing modernity thinking that.
[00:05:19]  This is something that is brand new and is exciting that somehow this is something that's super revolutionary, like being able to take some sort of DMT or some sort of psilocybin mushrooms and to get into an altered state of consciousness.
[00:05:34]  This has been going on for a very, very long time.
[00:05:38]  You think about the movie The 300, right?
[00:05:41]  So we think about that it depicts Greek culture.
[00:05:45]  And what happens in there is that Leonidas goes to the priest and they get a message of whether or not they should fight, what's the will of the gods.
[00:05:53]  And they end up having, you know, these women, you know, who they give them a psychoactive substance and they start convulsing and they get in contact with a higher entity.
[00:06:04]  And that's where the priest gets their message.
[00:06:06]  And this is depicting, you know, depicting in a very cinematic way ancient Greece.
[00:06:10]  And obviously, I don't think the men in 300 is actually how they were, like historically.
[00:06:15]  But you see that depicted.
[00:06:17]  You see that depicted in all ancient civilizations with the Mayans, in a lot of these places that we think.
[00:06:24]  These places where human sacrifices took place, where you know, you look at how culture has affected India like, you look at the culture in India, you look at the culture in ancient South America like, this is not pinnacle civilization.
[00:06:38]  But now, all of a sudden, we think that we can bring you know, taking these medicinals and taking this, these substances that somehow that's going to bring out the perfect utopian society.
[00:06:50]  It's like, well, what exactly are you doing?
[00:06:52]  And it's being popularized right now.
[00:06:54]  Uh, you think like Machine Gun Kelly and Megan Fox, they've been known, they've been.
[00:06:58]  They've been very well known for now going down to South America and doing ayahuasca ceremonies and then like just going there and just like vomiting excessively.
[00:07:06]  And somehow at the very end of it, you know, they come to this higher level of conscious expansion and awareness.
[00:07:13]  You've had people like Russell Brand, Joe Rogan.
[00:07:17]  And what's interesting too is that when it comes to even this conversation, it also comes down to who we are ontologically as being kind of carrying off over off of AI.
[00:07:27]  But you have.
[00:07:29]  There's a similar pattern going on.
[00:07:31]  So, there's not just neural, you know, there's a physiological aspect that's taking place.
[00:07:36]  Your neurons are being affected, and there's a physiological component, but it always comes back to a common thing.
[00:07:45]  You end up somewhere on a realm, specifically an astral realm, and eventually getting in contact with entities that initially give you good information that seem like they might be friendly initially, but they end up getting hostile and turning on you.
[00:08:02]  And that's then that's a commonality.
[00:08:04]  So, the question is, how do you give an accounting of that?
[00:08:07]  What worldview do you make sense of that?
[00:08:10]  So, this isn't just about taking it for medical reasons or doing it.
[00:08:15]  You know, there's even a big now push for it to deal with veterans with PTSD.
[00:08:19]  Um, you know, and we should be able to think about that.
[00:08:21]  I think you know, mental health is something that we shouldn't shy away from.
[00:08:25]  You know, we're made in the image of God, the Imago Dei, that's something we should embrace and should entrust.
[00:08:29]  But then again, if something is being popularized that is going to quote unquote help people.
[00:08:35]  But there is a commonality.
[00:08:37]  Like, this is where it goes to.
[00:08:38]  Like, we have to be able to understand as Christians okay, how do we approach this topic?
[00:08:42]  What actually is happening?
[00:08:45]  Is this visitation and contact with entities?
[00:08:47]  Is this some sort of self psychosis?
[00:08:50]  Are they just hallucinating in their own head?
[00:08:53]  Or is this just something they're just making up?
[00:08:55]  Or is there truly an unseen realm that we don't need DMT to know about or to see?
[00:09:03]  We can't view with our naked eye, but we do have a lens of scripture where it unequivocally talks about what this realm is.
[00:09:10]  And there are ways to access it in a proper way.
[00:09:14]  Because there's only one who has truly ascended to heaven, namely the Son of Man.
[00:09:18]  But there's also improper ways to ascend, shortcuts, but it's not where you end up in contact with.
[00:09:26]  If you think about over there, the artwork, Pilgrim's Progress, there are a couple of times where Christian takes sideways and he ends up in contact in places where he shouldn't be and ends up getting in trouble for it.
[00:09:40]  So I think that's something to really think about as we kind of unravel into this discussion.
[00:09:45]  Yeah, and I think it's good for the listener to understand that.
[00:09:49]  People who are using DMT or any form of psychedelic substance in order to gain a higher level of truth are committing a Gnostic heresy, right?
[00:10:00]  They're saying that being connected to this material realm, there's something higher than the material, which is the supernatural, spiritual, or preternatural, really, if they're connecting this weird realm, is where actual all truth lies, and that they need to be more separated from what's in front of us in order to connect to this higher spiritual.
[00:10:20]  The physical is just.
[00:10:22]  It's a hindrance.
[00:10:23]  It's a prison that I need to be liberated.
[00:10:26]  My spirit needs to be liberated from its cell of a body in order to tap into this elite secret knowledge.
[00:10:35]  Yeah, exactly.
[00:10:36]  And what I find interesting about that is that in order for me to truly understand who the Father was, what did Jesus actually do?
[00:10:43]  What did the Word do?
[00:10:44]  He took on flesh.
[00:10:44]  He took on flesh for me to get a proper understanding of the Father.
[00:10:49]  So it's the opposite.
[00:10:50]  Like we as humans are created with body and soul.
[00:10:52]  And one day we'll have glorified, uh, immortal bodies.
[00:10:55]  Jesus Christ was the firstborn from the dead.
[00:10:58]  So, the truth in which I inhabit that God has given me has given me for a reason, right?
[00:11:02]  So, I get truth through general and special revelation, of course, found in the incarnation, perfect work of Jesus Christ, what is revealed in his word.
[00:11:10]  But again, the word took on flesh, right?
[00:11:12]  So, I mean, me personally, in our eternal existence, I mean, that that in itself is pretty profound to think that you know to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.
[00:11:21]  So, when we die, um, we will go.
[00:11:24]  In spirit to be with the Lord, but not forever.
[00:11:28]  Right.
[00:11:29]  We will go for a time, but eventually there will be a final culmination to human history in this gospel age in a final physical return of Christ and the resurrection of the dead, both those for damnation and those for glory.
[00:11:45]  And then we will receive back our bodies glorified, now resurrected and glorified, and our final existence, our existence that actually is forever, that has no end.
[00:11:58]  Will be a physical existence.
[00:12:00]  It won't just be a spiritual existence.
[00:12:02]  It will be a spiritual and physical existence with physical bodies.
[00:12:06]  And like to think that, like, when you think of God, who is spirit, you know, like, you know, both 1689 and the Westminster, he's a most pure spirit without body parts or passions, you know, or John chapter four, you know, like, you know, the Father is spirit, God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship him in spirit and truth.
[00:12:24]  So you have this spirit God.
[00:12:28]  His final climax, like everything is like, is crescendoing into this greater and greater, you know, ultimate climax.

=== Glorified Physical Existence Forever (14:17) ===

[00:12:37]  But the final climax for his image bearing creatures is the dirty, rotten, inferior flesh is finally gone.
[00:12:45]  No, drum roll, please.
[00:12:48]  Perfect physical existence.
[00:12:51]  Yep.
[00:12:51]  The physical doesn't go away.
[00:12:52]  Like that is God's plan.
[00:12:54]  Right.
[00:12:54]  And what God calls good, for us to say, oh, it's icky.
[00:13:00]  Real quick, before we continue with the show, I wanted to let you know that this is actually just one episode of a 10 part series that we will be.
[00:13:08]  Slowly releasing to the public on places like YouTube and your favorite podcast platform over the coming months.
[00:13:16]  However, if you want to get all 10 of these episodes right now, early access and ad free, we are making them available exclusively for our Patreon members over at patreon.com forward slash right response ministries.
[00:13:33]  Here are the titles for just a few of those episodes.
[00:13:37]  We've got Transhumanism.
[00:13:39]  And artificial intelligence.
[00:13:41]  We also have DMT and the astral realm.
[00:13:44]  We also have neo paganism.
[00:13:47]  And another of my favorite episodes is an entire episode devoted to the grays.
[00:13:54]  So again, head on over to patreon.com forward slash right response ministries and sign up for our silver tier, which is just $5 a month.
[00:14:04]  And you'll be able to get all 10 of these episodes ad free right now.
[00:14:09]  And if you join us at the gold tier for just $10 a month, you'll get early access, ad free for the full 10 episodes, plus an additional live stream that I and the guys who join me for this series that's Jeremiah Roberts and Andrew Suncrant the three of us will be doing live streams where we'll be taking questions from you, our gold tier Patreon members, and providing for you the best answers that we possibly can from the Word of God.
[00:14:38]  So don't delay, go to patreon.com forward slash right response ministries and be Become a supporter today.
[00:14:45]  Yeah, and that's what people, when they're doing hallucinogenics to get a higher form of knowledge, that's the error that they're committing, right?
[00:14:51]  It's a denial of the flesh.
[00:14:53]  It's actually poisoning your flesh in order to loosen that silver cord again to reach something or some area.
[00:15:00]  So the question would be is we called it the astral realm, but really is, is well, where are they going, right?
[00:15:06]  What is happening?
[00:15:07]  And I think Paul actually gives a good example when he says caught up into the third heaven, right?
[00:15:12]  So we're talking about, well, what is Paul talking about?
[00:15:15]  Well, the Bible describes three different parts of heaven, right?
[00:15:17]  We have the sky, we have space, right?
[00:15:21]  Outside of the sky, then we also have where God dwells, caught up into the third heaven, which is outside of the known cosmos.
[00:15:28]  But when we actually have the Bible then describing demons and where they inhabit, is it otherworldly?
[00:15:33]  Is it a third heaven?
[00:15:35]  No, he uses power of the air, waterless places, meaning that it's not where God dwells, it's not where truth dwells, right?
[00:15:43]  The way and the truth and the life is Jesus.
[00:15:45]  He exists.
[00:15:46]  In the third, the highest level of heaven, the error that these people are committing really is that they think that's where they're going.
[00:15:52]  They think they're going to the embodiment of truth in this astral realm, but really where they're going is the air.
[00:15:57]  They're going to the power of the air, the waterless places, as the Bible describes, not their third heaven.
[00:16:03]  It's not where higher knowledge lies, but it's actually where these entities dwell.
[00:16:07]  That's helpful.
[00:16:08]  Yeah.
[00:16:09]  Yeah.
[00:16:10]  Okay.
[00:16:11]  Yeah.
[00:16:12]  And I think then the question is I think you have even Christians now who are still already asking the question, like, can Like, could I take psychedelics?
[00:16:22]  Is it actually okay?
[00:16:23]  And I think this would be also just indicative of the zeitgeist of a rage going from one versus two.
[00:16:31]  One of the first interviews we ever did, we talked with Stephen Bancars.
[00:16:35]  He's a former New Ager.
[00:16:36]  And I remember in the very first interview I did with him, we did an overall view of just the New Age.
[00:16:42]  We were parsing old clips of Walter Martin in the 1970s and 80s, talking about the New Age.
[00:16:47]  And he kind of gave his commentary, sort of expanding on it.
[00:16:50]  And in it, he mentioned ayahuasca.
[00:16:54]  And that barred me.
[00:16:54]  I was like, wait, what's that?
[00:16:56]  Like, are you talking about, is that some name of some deity or like, what is, is that the name of some guru or something?
[00:17:01]  Like, I had no idea.
[00:17:03]  So I just, and I felt silly for asking him because I'm like, I didn't know, I didn't want to ask, but I was thinking back in my head, okay, what's ayahuasca?
[00:17:09]  But now, you know, five years later, it's something I'm hearing, I started hearing consistently more and more about.
[00:17:16]  And now it's become part of what used to be part of the fringe.
[00:17:20]  It used to be part of an old, you know, no, it wouldn't be on people's minds regularly.
[00:17:25]  It's now a regular thing.
[00:17:27]  The same way how, you know, UFOs was referred to people living in their basement who watched too many episodes of X Files, now is normalized.
[00:17:34]  It's on all the news stations.
[00:17:35]  I mean, just this last election cycle, you had Donald Trump being talked about, or, you know, his son, Barry.
[00:17:40]  Donald Trump Jr. was interviewing him.
[00:17:43]  It's like, are you going to ever tell us about what's going on at Roswell?
[00:17:45]  And then you also have numerous people like the Department of Defense and in the Pentagon making statements about the existence, saying there is something out here, but we don't know what these are.
[00:17:55]  So you have that be normalized.
[00:17:57]  You're seeing a lot of things which are related to the sphere in the world of paganism, but now you're seeing normalization of that.
[00:18:05]  And so what you're seeing, if you look at just the pinpoint of this whole conversation, that the normalization of Psychoactive use, psychoactive substances is a direct correlation to the rise of neo paganism in our culture because it's the conversation behind it is inherently spiritual because it's not just something you take for the sake of taking it.
[00:18:27]  It's inherently a spiritual gateway.
[00:18:31]  And that's why, even with cultists, I mean, we deal definitively, we talk about definitive cults.
[00:18:36]  And the one commonality that every single cult leader has, there's always some private esoteric revelation that's internally.
[00:18:44]  Verified and the ultimate authority is because I said so.
[00:18:48]  And so, what you actually see is a lot of these gurus who are giving their knowledge is because I said so, is because basically follow what I say because I licked a toad in Costa Rica and I went into an altered state of consciousness.
[00:19:00]  Therefore, you have to understand my truth.
[00:19:04]  You're describing Joseph Smith right now, right?
[00:19:07]  And it's so substitute the toad with something, you know, but like it's basically the same thing, right?
[00:19:11]  And it's silly and it's foolish because what they're trying to say.
[00:19:16]  Is a lot of these gurus who try and articulate what they found in the astral realm, they'll say, Well, truth comes within, look to within for truth, but follow me because I'm the guru.
[00:19:25]  Right.
[00:19:26]  It's self refuting.
[00:19:26]  Dude, think about this.
[00:19:27]  What does Paul say when he went to the third heaven?
[00:19:30]  He said there were things that man, which he could not utter to men.
[00:19:34]  But what are these people doing?
[00:19:35]  They're doing the inverse, right?
[00:19:37]  They're not going to the third heaven and then they're telling everyone about these experiences.
[00:19:40]  Right.
[00:19:40]  It's the, it's the, um, they're going to the second heaven, maybe.
[00:19:44]  Right.
[00:19:45]  Kind of.
[00:19:45]  They're, yeah, they're going to, um, it's the reverse of the incarnation, right?
[00:19:49]  Like Jesus is going to the prince of this air.
[00:19:51]  Exactly.
[00:19:51]  Like it's the opposite of the incarnation, really, because they're committing a Gnostic heresy.
[00:19:57]  But what I find so funny about it is they're actually using the materials of the earth to commit it.
[00:20:02]  So if the material is something that is bad, the flesh is bad, the material is bad, why are you taking a material object and putting it in your body, creating a material poisoning in order to have a spiritual experience?
[00:20:15]  I find it to be counterproductive and illogical.
[00:20:18]  Yeah, that's funny.
[00:20:21]  I think about, well, here's something I wanted to get to.
[00:20:26]  What do you guys think about some of the testimonies of DMT and different psychedelics that have been used by governments, including our own?
[00:20:38]  Any thoughts on that?
[00:20:39]  Well, that would kind of go to, I mean, that would go to, you know, you talk about like MKUltra.
[00:20:46]  That is something that's irrefutable, it's incontrovertible.
[00:20:49]  We were telling you before there's a book by Tom O'Neill that we did an episode on a while back called Chaos.
[00:20:54]  And it was about Tom O'Neill as this journalist who was doing a history.
[00:20:59]  He was doing an article, magazine piece on the Manson murders.
[00:21:02]  It was the 30th anniversary of the Manson murders.
[00:21:05]  And there were just some things off.
[00:21:06]  He interviewed Vincent Bugliosi.
[00:21:09]  There's some things in his interview that just seemed off.
[00:21:12]  And it created an obsession where he studied the Manson case for 20 years.
[00:21:16]  And what he came to the conclusion of is that Manson was on some level, some sort of informant for the government.
[00:21:23]  There's a lot of just every component of the official story of Manson doesn't.
[00:21:29]  There's holes.
[00:21:31]  Every aspect of it is Swiss cheese.
[00:21:32]  He doesn't give a definitive answer.
[00:21:34]  But what he does mention is that the head of everything within the Annihilator program took place in San Francisco, which just so happens to be where Manson started his cult, right outside.
[00:21:47]  He started in San Francisco, and then I believe he was right outside of LA at Spawn Ranch.
[00:21:52]  But what you end up seeing is that somebody who conveniently managed to have people kill on command through the uses of LSD.
[00:21:59]  And that was the argument.
[00:22:00]  That was a whole way.
[00:22:01]  That was how Vincent Bubbiosi.
[00:22:04]  Utilized the helter skelter to convict Manson, even though he wasn't present at the crime.
[00:22:08]  But what you end up seeing is that somehow or another, he argues and attests that he was sort of a person who could get like these people were someone who acted on command, but it ended up being almost a psyop where, after post Manson murders,
[00:22:23]  all the objections to American policy in regards to the Vietnam War, now all the hippies who are protesting it and the appeal towards hippie people started fearing them versus being drawn to them because all they could see was Manson and Susan Atkins and all the girls in the Courtroom where the X is marked over their heads, right?
[00:22:40]  Where they could see that.
[00:22:41]  So I think, you know, like, and it's not just the United States.
[00:22:46]  I mean, the government, look, there's so, when is the government has always been not always in the vested interest of, you know, wanting to help?
[00:22:54]  But yeah, there's a large part of history where they've used psychoactive substances, you know, for that use.
[00:23:00]  I think that's incontrovertible.
[00:23:02]  I think the story of chaos, like, that could be another episode in itself.
[00:23:06]  But you do see, You know, even if there's realms of, you know, like hearsay regarding Tom O'Neill, they are tapping into something real that, in that MKUltra did utilize LSD and psychoactive substances to try and get people to bend them to do their will.
[00:23:25]  Yeah.
[00:23:25]  And I think there's a lot to say in terms of psychedelic drugs.
[00:23:29]  If we look at MKUltra and the tests that they were doing on American citizens, trying to create a Manchurian candidate, which is essentially a mind controlled super spy, when we think about, The link between mind control and psychedelics, I think it says a lot, right?
[00:23:43]  Like, me personally, when I was growing up in my prodigal son era, I did a lot of psychedelics.
[00:23:49]  I never did DMT, but I did stuff called coarse, eaten, cold, and cough, which is abusing pills, really, that you can buy over the counter in which you can trip for days.
[00:23:58]  I did a lot of mushrooms.
[00:24:00]  I did a lot of psychedelic drugs.
[00:24:03]  And what's funny is that you get pleasure from these substances, okay?
[00:24:07]  And I'm going to link something now going back to divine feminism, all right?
[00:24:12]  I think people can be controlled by pleasure, right?
[00:24:14]  I think women can also control people by pleasure.
[00:24:16]  I think a society controlled by pleasure is also a society that's very influenced by women, right?
[00:24:24]  So I think what we can find in terms of mind control and a link with psychedelics is a feminized culture, men who are ruled by their pleasures and passions.
[00:24:33]  And in reality, what kind of people do you want when you're in a government, right?
[00:24:38]  You want people that you can control.
[00:24:40]  You can control with pleasure, you can control with passion, not people who are self governed in thinking for themselves.
[00:24:46]  So we talk about it.
[00:24:47]  They don't want sober people.
[00:24:48]  You don't want sober people.
[00:24:49]  Like Karl Marx, he stated that religion is the best opiate for the masses.
[00:24:54]  He's absolutely wrong.
[00:24:56]  He is absolutely wrong.
[00:24:57]  Religion and true religion is the only thing that frees the masses from a centralized form of government that controls everything.
[00:25:03]  You know what's the best opiate for the masses?
[00:25:06]  Opium.
[00:25:07]  Exactly.
[00:25:08]  That's what I'm saying.
[00:25:09]  Yeah, exactly.
[00:25:10]  Like rejecting Christ.
[00:25:11]  Yeah, I know you're saying that.
[00:25:12]  But rejecting Christ and then having terrible governors who they're not just incompetent, but they're nefarious and evil and sinister.
[00:25:22]  And they make, they give the people everything they want, all their debased, you know, their lowest, you know, vices.
[00:25:29]  And a lot of that being like substances that take away your ability to think.
[00:25:37]  Yeah, absolutely.
[00:25:38]  And I see the fruit coming from that because I have a lot of individuals that I grew up with that were my friends that are still enslaved to this type of thinking, you know?
[00:25:47]  Like when I did these drugs when I was younger, I didn't do them to have a quote unquote spiritual experience, I did them to try to escape my life.
[00:25:55]  You know what I mean?
[00:25:55]  It was a form of escapism.
[00:25:57]  But also, what I was doing though was opening myself up to a realm of thinking that's a debased mind in which I thought truth or escape could actually occur by poisoning my body, which isn't true.
[00:26:10]  That's not how you find freedom.
[00:26:12]  It's not in substances, it's in the word made flesh.
[00:26:15]  You know, I need to feast on Christ, not feast on poison.
[00:26:19]  But the thought remains is that the culture that we live in, especially one controlled by drugs, What's the fruit that it's produced so far with these individuals?
[00:26:29]  I mean, there's the random Joe Rogan who does some psychedelics and he can still have some form of manliness.
[00:26:35]  But the question is, is well, what is the main fruit from, you know, taking DMT, from doing ayahuasca?
[00:26:41]  We're seeing a feminized culture that's controlled by its passions and its pleasures, but the true man conquers passions and pleasures through Christ.
[00:26:50]  Yeah, that's a really good point.

=== Dealing with Attached Entities (07:09) ===

[00:26:55]  Right Response Ministries 2025 conference is a go.
[00:26:59]  This is.
[00:27:00]  Three days full jam packed conference with eight main sessions, three to four hour and a half long panels, and an all star super based lineup of speakers 15 speakers in all.
[00:27:12]  Who are they?
[00:27:13]  Steve Dace, Jeff Durbin, Orrin McIntyre, Stephen Wolf, Brian Sauvet, Andrew Isker, John Harris, Eric Kahn, A.D. Robles, Dan Burkholder, the Christian Prince himself, Dusty Deavers, Ben Garrett, David Reese, and yours truly, Pastor Joel Webbin.
[00:27:31]  Again, this is April 3rd, 4th, and 5th.
[00:27:34]  Twenty twenty five, and the early registration is open right now.
[00:27:39]  This is the longest conference with the most speakers we've ever offered, and yet it is our all time lowest price.
[00:27:46]  The early registration available today is only a hundred and forty bucks for an adult.
[00:27:52]  So go to Right Response Conference.com again, that is Right Response Conference.com to register right now because the early registration will not last long.
[00:28:05]  Any final Stories or testimonies or thoughts on this topic?
[00:28:10]  Yeah, I think when it comes to this, it's important for Christians to just understand how to deal with this.
[00:28:17]  And I think, especially in the Reformed world, I think one of the things that would be very, very helpful is to get a healthy understanding of the supernatural.
[00:28:25]  And so I think most people who are in the Reformed camp tend to also side in kind of fall in the cessationist camp.
[00:28:33]  And I think there is, I would even call it sometimes a realm of hyper cessationism, where you only give precedent, you tend to be very skeptical.
[00:28:41]  Of any giving any credence to the existence to the supernatural, uh, just because you've seen you know realms of hyper charisma abuse it, so there's a tendency to pendulum swing.
[00:28:52]  That we get it, Benny Hinn is bad, yeah, and you know, but then you overreact and you're like, there's no spiritual experiences, right?
[00:29:00]  And to explain things away, and I think that's one of the reasons why a lot of former new agers they tend to just fall, they find themselves, uh, even unintentionally, like in a charismatic church, right?
[00:29:10]  Because you do see the one area in which.
[00:29:13]  Well, you know, and I have friends who are charismatic or Pentecostal that I love as brothers.
[00:29:17]  And I think, though, like one of the areas in which they are good at is they acknowledge the reality of the supernatural.
[00:29:23]  Yeah.
[00:29:24]  Even though sometimes it's many times it's to their detriment because they go too far and give too much credence to the authority of private experience.
[00:29:32]  But I think having a grounded understanding of the reality of the supernatural and trusting God at his word gives a gravitas to while I have never.
[00:29:43]  Been involved with the occult.
[00:29:46]  The first time I ever heard about it, when I was, we'll talk in later episodes about Mormonism and understanding Joseph Smith's, you know, the fact that he was tried and convicted as a sorcerer, as somebody who did glass looking, which is a form of occultism.
[00:29:59]  That was my first introduction to it.
[00:30:03]  But understanding the reality and gravitas behind what God says about the supernatural creates a very powerful apologetic.
[00:30:12]  And I remember I was in a conversation with someone as I was just at this business networking meeting.
[00:30:17]  And I am just speaking with this lady about Burning Man.
[00:30:20]  And she said she last year, she's a former burner.
[00:30:22]  She had been to Burning Man a couple of times and just started having a conversation with her.
[00:30:26]  And I asked about her usage of psychedelics and DMT.
[00:30:30]  I know about what God says about it.
[00:30:33]  I know it makes you, I believe in the unseen realm because God says that it's there and it exists because the Bible is a dimensional book.
[00:30:43]  And so it gives a real constitutional reality, even though we can't see it with our naked eye, we can see it through the lens of Scripture.
[00:30:51]  Of what the unseen realm is, so believing new agers' experience.
[00:30:56]  So, when you have somebody who's coming in, uh, say they're in counseling and they start talking about the supernatural experience, you don't, you can believe them, you have to believe them because one God says you have, God says this is a reality, but if you don't, you'll be gaslighting them because there's a they're experiencing something that's real and tangible.
[00:31:16]  And so, I was speaking with this lady and she was talking about her experiences with different, you know, psilocybin mushrooms and DMT, and I just said.
[00:31:25]  So, what was it like when you talk with those entities at three o'clock in the morning?
[00:31:28]  Were they initially friendly or hostile?
[00:31:31]  And she looked like, What?
[00:31:33]  Who is this person?
[00:31:35]  Is this guy some sort of prophet or something?
[00:31:37]  But it was like, you know, the fact that she, like, I believed her because I don't know her experience.
[00:31:46]  I don't know what the astral realm is.
[00:31:48]  I don't ever intend to see what it is because God says don't go there.
[00:31:51]  But I know that realm exists through the lens of scripture.
[00:31:54]  But through that, I was able to articulate.
[00:31:58]  What that realm was.
[00:32:00]  And I was also able to articulate the gospel because she did talk about how those entities were hostile and they were scaring her.
[00:32:08]  And the one commonality that all New Agers have, people who've gone down that realm, who have been in the astral realm, those entities that initially seem nice and friendly, and whether it's sexual pleasure or esoteric knowledge or an understanding of higher consciousness, they end up turning on you.
[00:32:28]  They become hostile.
[00:32:30]  There's experiences on YouTube influencers who are in the new age who will talk about the dangers of having entities still attached to you when you go from your astral body back into your physical body.
[00:32:42]  The one commonality that every new ager has and how their effectual calling began the process is that the entities turned on them, they became hostile, and all of a sudden they felt inclined to call out to Jesus of Nazareth.
[00:33:00]  Not and all of a sudden it stopped.
[00:33:04]  And that was, wait, wait a minute.
[00:33:06]  What was that?
[00:33:07]  What was that?
[00:33:08]  I've tried, and these entities have been attacking me and giving me nightmares and all this stuff.
[00:33:14]  And I've tried everything.
[00:33:15]  I've tried burning incense.
[00:33:16]  I've tried seances.
[00:33:18]  I try to do a different positive, you know, positive energy, like sort of psychoactive ceremony to get rid of those entities.
[00:33:25]  And then I take on new entities.
[00:33:27]  Now it's gone.
[00:33:28]  Who is this Jesus of Nazareth?
[00:33:29]  And that leads them to a Bible.
[00:33:31]  And that's all of a sudden that leads them to acknowledge Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.
[00:33:36]  And all of a sudden, They have this conviction that I have to get rid of all my tarot cards, all my astrology charts.
[00:33:45]  I can't sell those anymore.
[00:33:46]  I have to burn those.
[00:33:48]  Like this is independently come to their own fruition because of this.
[00:33:52]  And so that's where you see not only the reality of believing in the supernatural realm and seeing that, you get to see, especially as reformed people, we love those five points, right?

=== Finding Jesus Through Ex-Nagger Testimonies (02:27) ===

[00:34:05]  So we talk about total depravity, unconditional, irresistible grace.
[00:34:08]  Or effectual calling, like the stories of new age testimonies.
[00:34:12]  When you hear those, like, I don't understand.
[00:34:15]  I hear those, like, I have to be a Calvinist, like, because you see God effectually drawing people through Himself and He's utilizing the unseen realm.
[00:34:24]  And I think that's an area to which the reformer, we have to reform that area because we all would easily give credence to somebody who, if they, let's just say, we've heard, I've heard testimonies before, somebody is out on, you know, the college district.
[00:34:41]  And they've just been burning the candle at both ends.
[00:34:44]  They're partying and drinking and just living a life of debauchery.
[00:34:48]  And all of a sudden, there's somebody preaching on a street corner and they're drunk and they just blur some obscenities.
[00:34:54]  And somebody hands them a tract and they stuff it in their pocket.
[00:34:58]  And they waking up the next morning, hungover, just feeling devoid of life.
[00:35:03]  And all of a sudden, they have a moment of sobriety and say, I can't live like this.
[00:35:07]  And they pull that tract out and they start reading on there.
[00:35:10]  And on that tract, The gospel says it's a Ray Comfort way of the master track, and the gospel's articulated.
[00:35:16]  And all of a sudden, they're like, Oh, I think, yeah, maybe God's law, maybe I have broken that.
[00:35:22]  That's why I, you know, there's no peace at the every single time I'm trying to drown my sorrows, but my sorrows are really good swimmers.
[00:35:29]  And then all of a sudden, that leads me to a Bible, and that leads to conviction of sin.
[00:35:34]  Like we're okay with accepting that testimony because it's all something tangibly we can see.
[00:35:40]  Like I say, a college district, we can see that, we've seen that.
[00:35:44]  You know, we've seen people who are drunk and intoxicated.
[00:35:46]  We've seen people, if you've seen people who are street preachers, you see people who are hostile.
[00:35:50]  We get that.
[00:35:51]  We've seen that.
[00:35:53]  And then you see, you know, people who are at church telling their testimony or being baptized and they're professing Christ.
[00:35:59]  We see that with our naked eye, but there's a supernatural reality going behind that.
[00:36:03]  But Christ is king over the supernatural and the material and the immaterial realm.
[00:36:09]  That's what Colossians 1 talks about.
[00:36:12]  And so, in the same token, when we hear a story of somebody who is an ex new ager who all of a sudden has, you know, you might call like an initial vision of Jesus for being attacked by entities and this craze of this happening in the supernatural realm, and then their affectional happenings, we tend to be super skeptical of that.

=== Christ as Mediator Over All Realms (10:47) ===

[00:36:32]  And I don't think we should be.
[00:36:33]  I think especially as being Reformed Christians and believing in the sovereignty of God and Sola Scriptura, we should be able to address and to minister to those people with confidence because we have a complete framework, a geographical topographical map of the unseen realm through the lens of Scripture to where we can believe them and point them to the North Star, which is Christ, to where they can find hope.
[00:36:59]  And that's where, you know, when it comes to this whole psychedelic experience, Walter Martin, you know, our show is based off, you know, it's sort of a continuing homage to the late Dr. Walter Martin, who wrote the book Kingdom of the Cults.
[00:37:11]  There's also another great book called Kingdom of the Occult, which is assembled by Jill Martin, who is, you know, Walter Martin's daughter is assembling.
[00:37:19]  It's just sort of a compilation of his lectures and talks on the subject.
[00:37:22]  But in one of his prayers, he said this.
[00:37:26]  He just said, you know, they're telling us all the occultists, like Helena Blavatsky or these other, you know, Alice Baileys and these people, you know, Also, women, a lot of these women who are into this esoteric stuff, the ones who really normalize the new age and the occult in the Western world, especially.
[00:37:42]  But, you know, they, like Walter Martin would say, that they are telling us to reach out beyond, to try and transcend.
[00:37:50]  But you have told us to draw near to you, and you will draw near to us.
[00:37:55]  And like that's what we have to do.
[00:37:57]  And it's very easy in this world, especially when it comes to the new age and the occult, to sort of sometimes, you know, look at them and almost sort of look at them in a disparaging way.
[00:38:07]  But in reality, they are.
[00:38:09]  Going after, they're trying, you know, they're made in the image of God.
[00:38:13]  They're trying to transcend with the spiritual fervor, but they are going to burn the candle at both ends because there's no way to ascend.
[00:38:20]  They are stuck in the internal wheel of oneness.
[00:38:23]  That's why, when it comes to this, you know, that's why the gospel is so important because at the end of the day, those who try and find peace through the realm of a psychoactive substance, there's no end in sight.
[00:38:36]  It's just a continuation of that.
[00:38:38]  Is there anything else you want to add on?
[00:38:39]  Yeah, it's like their body is the mediator.
[00:38:41]  To a higher level of consciousness, right?
[00:38:44]  And your body's not the mediator between you and God.
[00:38:47]  It's the God man, Jesus Christ, right?
[00:38:50]  When thinking about these experiences that people have with DMT, you're talking about how we should accept what they're telling us.
[00:38:58]  And we absolutely should.
[00:38:59]  We have it in scripture.
[00:39:01]  Because you were even asking the question earlier, Joel, what about these people who have experiences?
[00:39:04]  They have contacts with certain entities and stuff.
[00:39:06]  Well, in scripture in Deuteronomy 13, it says, if a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you and does what?
[00:39:11]  Produces miracles.
[00:39:13]  Signs and wonders, right?
[00:39:14]  But if they lead you after another God, God you have not known, don't believe them.
[00:39:18]  So we have there already a precedent in the Bible that there's things that can happen.
[00:39:22]  Right.
[00:39:22]  The false prophet is not just one who makes a prophecy that ultimately doesn't come true.
[00:39:27]  It could even be producing true signs and wonders, but does it lead you to God?
[00:39:32]  Right.
[00:39:32]  Go ahead.
[00:39:33]  Exactly.
[00:39:33]  So when we think of them, the false prophet, if they're not the mediator between God and man and the voice for God, they're the mediator between God or between man and something else.
[00:39:42]  So when we're thinking about psychedelic substances, It's the same type of prophet or mediator.
[00:39:47]  It's taking you somewhere away from God and bringing you somewhere where you do not find truth.
[00:39:53]  But according to God's word, when we're having conversations with people that are literally doing these things, we can't gaslight them in their experience.
[00:40:01]  But what we can help them see is that their experiences don't determine truth.
[00:40:05]  The barometer of truth is God's word.
[00:40:07]  This was a place that you should have not gone at all.
[00:40:11]  There's a reason God loves us so much rich in his mercy that he tells us not to deal in pharmakia.
[00:40:16]  He says, Don't sacrifice your bodies and poison yourself.
[00:40:19]  To try to be the mediator between God and man, focus on the true mediator who sacrificed his own flesh for us, which is Jesus Christ, in order for us to be indwelt with the Holy Spirit, to have a relationship with God.
[00:40:32]  Like you said in Hebrews, he draws near to us so we can draw near to him.
[00:40:35]  It's a beautiful thing.
[00:40:37]  Psychedelic substances will not do that.
[00:40:41]  Scientology does the same thing the bridge to total freedom.
[00:40:44]  It will never end.
[00:40:47]  You will go after one drug, another drug, and another drug, and another drug.
[00:40:51]  It will never end.
[00:40:52]  You'll never be wise enough.
[00:40:53]  You'll never be smart enough.
[00:40:54]  You'll never be disconnected from the material realm enough to bridge the gap between you and God.
[00:40:59]  It's only done through Jesus Christ.
[00:41:01]  Yeah.
[00:41:01]  And even, and even too, I mean, you're doing the series right now that you already recorded with Brian and Ben from Honda Cosmos.
[00:41:07]  I remember it wasn't, I think on X, I saw a tweet.
[00:41:12]  I still call it a tweet, even though it is X. Are they still called tweets?
[00:41:15]  They still are.
[00:41:15]  They're exes, bro.
[00:41:16]  They're exes.
[00:41:17]  They're not exes.
[00:41:17]  All my exes are in Texas.
[00:41:19]  We are in Texas.
[00:41:20]  But yeah, there was, I think there was a Post that either Brian or Ben shared, and maybe on the Haunted Cosmos X page.
[00:41:28]  But it was just somebody who became a fan of their podcast.
[00:41:33]  And through the whole process, that there might have been a couple of episodes, I got to catch up.
[00:41:37]  But he, well, they were talking about the same thing we're talking about the nature of the supernatural realm and psychoactive substances, psychedelics, whether or not you should take them.
[00:41:46]  But I think the person just said, Hey, I just want to say thank you because it was through your show and through the content that they addressed that I became convicted.
[00:41:54]  I can't take these psychoactive substances because.
[00:41:57]  This doesn't glorify God.
[00:41:58]  And so, like, praise God for that.
[00:42:00]  And I think what you are seeing, like, why the appeal of this conversation, like, why did Haunted come in?
[00:42:06]  Ben and Brian are doing a great, great job with their show.
[00:42:08]  Very well done, very well produced.
[00:42:10]  But I think, honestly, one of the reasons for the success that even they've had is because they're tapping into something that is, we all know what's going on.
[00:42:20]  We all know this reenchantment is going on.
[00:42:25]  And they're giving a true, tangible reality to it, but giving a biblical precedent behind, like, a how then.
[00:42:30]  Shall we live like Francis Schaeffer approach?
[00:42:33]  And I think that's what you end up seeing.
[00:42:37]  So you're able to help people walk through, like, this is why I shouldn't take this psychoactive substance, you know?
[00:42:44]  And that's, and honestly, this is an area you're supposed to train my kids.
[00:42:48]  You know, like, I'm going to have to probably have like talks, you know, with my son about this is why if a friend tells you, you know, a same kid might pull out a cigarette, you know, from the, I got from the community, I have a pack of cigarettes, you know, that was a cool and rebellious thing to do.
[00:43:02]  I remember I was with my neighbors, you know, on this horse property I live up over in Gilbert, and they snuck a beer out of his dad's fridge.
[00:43:09]  And like, we all took this Bud Light beer and we thought it was super cool and rebellious to go around and take, you know, swigs of it, you know.
[00:43:17]  And I thought that was a cool, rebellious thing, you know, back then, you know, like our kids are going to be probably say, Hey, I did this trip.
[00:43:24]  Do you want to, you know, what the astral realm is?
[00:43:25]  Do you want to go with me?
[00:43:26]  Like, that's like a real thing that, you know, as we're going through this re enchantment, like, we're going to have to train our kids about.
[00:43:33]  We're going to have, you know, Burning Man, like these things, like you're going to have to give them understand, like one versus two, and understanding the worldview of the case of that.
[00:43:43]  And ultimately, what is our goal as a Christian to love God with our whole heart, soul, mind, and strength in a world where things, people like the Sean Ryan show, like he is very popular among conservatives.
[00:43:56]  I mean, he has a lot of conservative guests and he has a lot of good content, but he does push the normalization of psychedelics among veterans that deal with PTSD.
[00:44:05]  So now you're seeing it like intergrained even in the secular conservative world, somewhat general, very generic Christianity, like you're seeing that ingrained there.
[00:44:16]  So it's a very much You know, this whole thing, if I could just sum it up, it's this is very much a how then shall we live.
[00:44:22]  We can't stick our heads in the sand.
[00:44:24]  We got to, if we're going to be truly faithful as Christians, we have to understand the world, the spiritual age of what we're in, and knowing that this isn't modernity, this is something brand new.
[00:44:34]  There's nothing new under the sun, but we need to have a formulated apologetic for it and to be able to train our children to self govern, to family govern, but also to love our neighbor and to explain the hope of the gospel that there's only one way to truly transcend, and that's through Christ, not through us, not try to keep peace, not to try peace.
[00:44:52]  Try and find peace through a psychoactive substance.
[00:44:55]  Yep.
[00:44:56]  That's good.
[00:44:57]  Andrew, can you say what you did again?
[00:44:58]  I feel like it'd be great to end the episode with just that, you know, it's the reverse of the true gospel is trying to, you know, sacrifice my body in order to ascend instead of say that.
[00:45:09]  How did you say that again?
[00:45:10]  That's the truth.
[00:45:11]  We are creatures that are innately created to worship.
[00:45:15]  We want to have a connection with God, but we're sinful human beings.
[00:45:20]  And in our sin, we look to sacrifice our own flesh, poison our bodies through psychedelic substances.
[00:45:26]  In order to have a connection with what they would call the divine.
[00:45:29]  But that's false worship and that's trying to sacrifice yourself.
[00:45:33]  It's asceticism.
[00:45:34]  The reality is that Jesus Christ is God in the flesh and he died on the cross with his body.
[00:45:41]  You know, his blood was shed for me on the mercy seat of God so that through belief in him, not the sacrifice of myself, I can actually have a relationship with God being indwelt by the Holy Spirit who can show me and teach me his ways.
[00:45:55]  He doesn't want my sacrifice, right?
[00:45:57]  He didn't want Isaac.
[00:45:58]  He wanted to send.
[00:45:59]  His son, but looking for anything else will give you a cipher or a siphon to something that is other than God.
[00:46:05]  The prophet, whether it be mushrooms or Joseph Smith, will teach you and lead you after another God, a God which you have not known.
[00:46:12]  The God who we know did it through his humility in Jesus Christ.
[00:46:17]  We didn't deserve it.
[00:46:18]  It's through grace and mercy and my belief in him.
[00:46:20]  I can have a relationship with him through his death, burial, and resurrection.
[00:46:23]  Amen.
[00:46:24]  All right.
[00:46:24]  Thanks for tuning in.
[00:46:26]  And this was episode three.
[00:46:28]  This is a 10 part series.
[00:46:29]  So, feel free to take the journey with us every Friday at 4 p.m. Central Time.
[00:46:34]  We're launching these to the public.
[00:46:37]  But if you want to skip ahead and get ad free access, early access to all 10 episodes, it's available now at patreon.com forward slash right response ministries.
[00:46:47]  Patreon.com forward slash right response ministries.
[00:46:50]  All right.
[00:46:50]  Thanks for tuning in.
[00:46:51]  Real quick before you go, we hope that you enjoyed the episode and we hope that you're eager for more.
[00:46:56]  However, as I already said, these will be slow dripping out over the course of weeks and even a few weeks.
[00:47:03]  Months.
[00:47:03]  But not to worry, if you want to be able to watch all 10 of these episodes right now ad free, all you got to do is join us as a silver tier member over on patreon.com forward slash right response ministries.
[00:47:19]  God bless.