NXR Podcast - THE CONFERENCE - Live Panel #2 with Haunted Cosmos
Aired: 2024-04-23
Duration: 01:09:59


=== Plato's Advanced Atlantis (02:44) ===

[00:00:00]  Okay, what are we talking about?
[00:00:02]  What did we decide?
[00:00:02]  We talked about it briefly back there.
[00:00:05]  Make the announcement.
[00:00:05]  What has it been?
[00:00:07]  Why am I making the announcement?
[00:00:09]  Brian?
[00:00:09]  Somebody?
[00:00:10]  Atlantis.
[00:00:11]  We're going to talk about Atlantis.
[00:00:13]  This is your conference.
[00:00:14]  Brian, do your Atlantis thing.
[00:00:16]  What was it?
[00:00:16]  It's like Atlantis.
[00:00:17]  And he says, Every man has a dream to find Atlantis, the city of lost treasure and adventure.
[00:00:23]  That's it.
[00:00:23]  That's every man's dream.
[00:00:24]  From the Disney.
[00:00:25]  If you want to win a man's heart, if you're a single lady looking for a single man, just say, Hey, I really like Atlantis.
[00:00:30]  Would you like to talk about it?
[00:00:32]  Yeah, and we all know where it is.
[00:00:33]  I mean, Yeah, where is it?
[00:00:35]  Well, it's in Mauritania.
[00:00:37]  It's in the middle of the Sahara Desert.
[00:00:38]  Explain.
[00:00:39]  The eye of the Sahara.
[00:00:40]  The Rakat structure.
[00:00:41]  It's there.
[00:00:42]  I thought it was a good one.
[00:00:43]  According to Solon.
[00:00:44]  So let's just talk about the background.
[00:00:46]  Talk about Plato.
[00:00:47]  Talk about what's his name?
[00:00:48]  Solon?
[00:00:49]  Yep, Solon.
[00:00:50]  Talk about Solon.
[00:00:51]  Talk about how Plato had Moses.
[00:00:53]  Yeah.
[00:00:54]  Inform us.
[00:00:57]  I don't remember exactly what it was, but Solon was Plato's great or great great grandfather.
[00:01:02]  It was like ninth generation descent.
[00:01:04]  Oh, was it that far?
[00:01:05]  Yeah, it was quite.
[00:01:06]  Oh, okay.
[00:01:06]  I think so.
[00:01:07]  And he was a statesman in Greece.
[00:01:10]  He took a trip one time to Alexandria.
[00:01:13]  And while he was at Alexandria, some of the Egyptian priests showed him the history of the world in their temple.
[00:01:20]  And 6,000 or 9,000 or so years before he was there, they told him about this place called Atlantis.
[00:01:29]  And they were very prosperous.
[00:01:30]  And they were in this really advanced island kind of civilization.
[00:01:35]  And they actually were overrunning all of the Mediterranean.
[00:01:40]  And they were oppressing people, specifically the Athenians, and so the gods got very angry at them and they judged them in a single night and it got swept away into the water and never returned.
[00:01:51]  So Solon comes back, tells his son, his son, his son, all the way down to Plato, who definitely read the Pentateuch and was a big fan.
[00:02:01]  And then we have in Critias and Timaeus Plato's own version of the events of Atlantis that seem to be, at least in his mind, historical narrative.
[00:02:11]  And so the question then becomes is it possible?
[00:02:15]  And if possible, how?
[00:02:17]  And then how would it fit in particularly to the overall narrative arc of the scriptures?
[00:02:25]  Yes.
[00:02:25]  Fantastic.
[00:02:26]  Talk about the dimensions, real quick.
[00:02:27]  Why do you think that Atlantis is in the Sahara Desert in regards to what Plato said?
[00:02:33]  So, Plato gave many characteristics of the city or received them from his ancestor.
[00:02:39]  The diameter of the city was it's a ring and it's 23 kilometers roughly.

=== The Nephilim Mystery (16:15) ===

[00:02:44]  It has these concentric circles with a certain number of land strips, then water, then land, then water, well, with an island in the center.
[00:02:52]  And it was in this rough area with, you know, the, what is it, Gibraltar?
[00:02:58]  Yeah, Straits of Gibraltar.
[00:02:59]  To the north.
[00:03:00]  And then there was the Atlas Mountains to the north.
[00:03:02]  There were mountains.
[00:03:03]  And then there was the river outlet that flowed southwest.
[00:03:07]  Yeah.
[00:03:08]  And so it wasn't actually in the middle of the ocean, but it was stepped back just slightly from the ocean.
[00:03:15]  And if you look at a Google Maps overview of the western coast of Africa and Mauritania, then you'll see clearly the Atlantic coast used to be much closer to this Rakat structure.
[00:03:27]  And then some cataclysmic event happened a very long time ago that drew the waters back, and that's very clear just in the geological structure.
[00:03:36]  And so now it's about 54 miles or so east of the western coast.
[00:03:40]  But it ticks, I mean, there were 13 data points or so that Plato gave, and it Ticked almost every single one today.
[00:03:49]  Like you can still find the evidence today.
[00:03:50]  There's springs in the center of the island.
[00:03:53]  Fresh water.
[00:03:54]  Yep, fresh water, maybe primary water, Joel.
[00:03:57]  I don't know.
[00:03:58]  There were elephants there.
[00:03:59]  There's the red, the black, the white stones.
[00:04:02]  There are all these things that just leave you saying, okay, well, if it looks like a duck and walks like a duck, maybe it quacks too.
[00:04:11]  Maybe it's a duck.
[00:04:13]  Yeah, in this city, if you can picture it from the sky, it looks like a dartboard kind of target.
[00:04:21]  And you can literally look, if you start zooming out at the continent and the Sahara Desert, And see if you're a Ken Ham guy, you know, you all know the pictures of the great waves where it's almost, you guys, like some cataclysmic flood event washed across the lands at some point in the past and utterly destroyed this anti let's call it antediluvian, uh, you know, society.
[00:04:50]  And that's this place.
[00:04:52]  It's actually wow.
[00:04:53]  The first time Ben and I had the idea for Hanukkah some years ago, and we had been talking about how we're going to do it.
[00:05:00]  What do we want to?
[00:05:01]  What's the format?
[00:05:02]  We want stories.
[00:05:03]  We want sound design.
[00:05:04]  We want Christian worldview emphasis.
[00:05:08]  We want to say, like, okay, the world is being removed of the supernatural.
[00:05:12]  And that's leaving a hole where people realize we're not stupid.
[00:05:15]  There's not just stuff.
[00:05:16]  Like, there is a supernatural world.
[00:05:18]  And one of the first things that really caught us as we began to prep for this first episode, like, you know, what did we all stay as kids?
[00:05:26]  What did we all get fascinated by?
[00:05:28]  Ocean mysteries, Bermuda Triangle, Atlantis.
[00:05:31]  Based on my childhood, I thought the Bermuda Triangle was going to be a much bigger problem.
[00:05:35]  Just like quicksand.
[00:05:36]  Than it ended up being.
[00:05:38]  I thought I was going to have to deal a lot with quicksand.
[00:05:41]  Ghost ships.
[00:05:42]  And Ben, we traveled to Orlando for a conference, and Ben and I were just by ourselves, went on this conference, and we had started to write, and we attempted to record the first draft of episode one there in a hotel, and it was terrible, and it will forever be deleted.
[00:06:01]  We scrapped the whole thing and started again.
[00:06:03]  But on that trip, we stumbled across some of this Atlantis is the Ricotte structure stuff.
[00:06:10]  And so it holds a special place in my heart because we were like, we were up in this hotel room.
[00:06:16]  We were at the Chili's.
[00:06:17]  Yeah.
[00:06:17]  At the Chili's.
[00:06:18]  We were doing our thing, vibing.
[00:06:20]  And then we go and watch this random YouTube video about the Ricotte structure.
[00:06:25]  And 10 minutes later, we're like, we know where to go.
[00:06:27]  And we were like, now we're the subject matter experts on Atlantis.
[00:06:30]  Atlantis confirmed.
[00:06:31]  Time to press record.
[00:06:32]  Yeah.
[00:06:32]  Atlantis confirmed 100%.
[00:06:34]  We started like stopping people on the street and saying, Do you know where Atlantis is?
[00:06:37]  Like, we can tell you.
[00:06:39]  They're like, Please leave me alone, sir.
[00:06:42]  This is a Wendy's restaurant.
[00:06:43]  Who are you?
[00:06:44]  What's in here?
[00:06:45]  So tell me about the king, though, and Plato's conception, which very likely is history, the king of Atlantis and his sons, and relate that.
[00:06:55]  How would you, Ben and Brian, relate that to the biblical narrative?
[00:06:58]  Yeah, that's where it really gets interesting.
[00:07:00]  And I'm going to mix up the names.
[00:07:02]  So, Brian, if you remember, be sure to stop me.
[00:07:05]  But there was a people that the native Mauritanians knew lived around the Atlas Mountains, and their names were the Atlans.
[00:07:14]  And this is well known and well recorded.
[00:07:16]  And they had this king who I can't remember his name, but it somehow coincides with a different name for Poseidon.
[00:07:23]  It's like a synonym for Poseidon.
[00:07:25]  And he was said to live forever, and he had 10 sons, five sets of twins, and the oldest twins he put in charge of this great city.
[00:07:34]  And then all the other twins he kind of spread around to govern different provinces.
[00:07:38]  In the entire kingdom.
[00:07:40]  And Poseidon, by Cleto, who was his demigoddess bride, had five sets of twin sons.
[00:07:50]  The mother of all mermaids.
[00:07:53]  Joel's always trying to talk about mermaids.
[00:07:56]  It's going to get us in trouble.
[00:07:56]  When you watch the thing we recorded together, it's like, Joel, how are you doing today?
[00:08:00]  And he's like, You know, I've been thinking about mermaids, Brian.
[00:08:04]  I literally opened one of the episodes.
[00:08:06]  You guys had no idea what I was doing, but it was like.
[00:08:10]  It was right after I had poured my heart and soul into this impromptu telling of a story about this woman who died in a river and became a mermaid.
[00:08:19]  And then Joel's like.
[00:08:24]  And I didn't know where the song was from.
[00:08:26]  I thought Joel was having a stroke.
[00:08:31]  You'll probably see it on the camera.
[00:08:32]  I was looking at him like, A stroke of genius.
[00:08:33]  Do we need to call an ambulance right now?
[00:08:37]  And the other thing is, for these several days, we'll get back to solving the ancient history problem and Grand Hammer.
[00:08:43]  Spoiler alert, it's Nephilim, but go ahead.
[00:08:44]  Yeah, it's all Nephilim and demons, but I repeat myself.
[00:08:47]  So, Joel, for like two, we were there for 48 hours about four weeks ago to do this series.
[00:08:53]  And it was like, if you've ever seen, you know, in the Old coal mining towns, when the fathers would go down into the mines at 5 a.m. and they'd, you know, mine the coal and can we come out now for lunch?
[00:09:05]  Like, no, keep mining.
[00:09:07]  And, you know, 9 30 p.m., they come out.
[00:09:10]  That was us in the podcast studio.
[00:09:11]  And there's not a shred of sunlight.
[00:09:13]  It's just completely sealed.
[00:09:15]  It's like, Brian and I were like, and it was hot.
[00:09:17]  Brian and I were like, please, sir, can I just go in there and have a walk?
[00:09:19]  I just want to see the sun.
[00:09:20]  At the end of the 12 hours of the last day, he's like, oh man, I forgot to turn the AC on.
[00:09:26]  Seriously, that's true.
[00:09:27]  So, again, more podcasts.
[00:09:30]  Please, may I see the sun, Joel?
[00:09:31]  Okay, so all this is true.
[00:09:35]  But going back, the king, his ten sons, five sets of twins.
[00:09:39]  I'm going to say, so, like, with this whole idea of Elohim and lowercase g gods and all, you know, divine counsel, some of this is Heiser related themes.
[00:09:49]  We're saying that it's at least possible.
[00:09:51]  Yeah.
[00:09:52]  It's at least possible that this Poseidon type king of Atlantis was not a Nephilim himself, but he would have been a fallen angel.
[00:10:00]  Yeah, it's really important that we define terms.
[00:10:04]  And this really gets into a deeper issue of why we do the show at all.
[00:10:07]  But the reason that we would say that with a straight face that actually maybe Plato was not only right in saying that Atlantis existed, but he was right in talking about how Poseidon ruled it, is because Genesis 6 4 exists.
[00:10:22]  And we know that there was some angelic rebellion.
[00:10:25]  We can all agree on that.
[00:10:27]  And Satan was the leader of the charge.
[00:10:29]  But we also get many other passages in scripture that seem to indicate that.
[00:10:34]  Giants roamed the earth, and so we have to ask, well, where did the giants come from?
[00:10:38]  Well, it seems to me like it's quite clear that they came from the fallen angels taking for themselves daughters of men.
[00:10:46]  And the important thing is that we know what happened to the fallen angels because of Jude and Peter.
[00:10:52]  We know that they were bound in gloomy dungeons until the final judgment of the last day.
[00:10:56]  But we're not told.
[00:10:57]  Maybe not all the fallen angels, but the ones who engaged in this abominable practice.
[00:11:00]  But we're also not told when they were bound.
[00:11:03]  So it's.
[00:11:04]  Perfectly allowable to say that there was some time, I mean, they had time enough to make children and sire children, we know that.
[00:11:11]  So there could have also been some time where they were allowed some level of dominion so that the sins of the sons of men might be fulfilled and complete before the flood.
[00:11:22]  And they had real rulership over dominions of the earth.
[00:11:28]  And then we get all the Nephilim.
[00:11:29]  Well, and not only the biblical narrative, but then you start to see why the Epic of Gilgamesh and Native American lore and Chinese lore and Like, why is it that all of these ancient mythological structures, many of them from cultures that had very little to do with one another, or for at least a very long time, all tell echoes of the same story?
[00:11:51]  Well, there was this guy that, with his family, survived this flood.
[00:11:54]  And it happened because there were all these gods that were intermingling with people and they were really wrecking things up.
[00:11:59]  And so the gods decided that they were going to flood everything.
[00:12:02]  And then, well, this guy survived.
[00:12:04]  And then there were these great post diluvian figures that went around.
[00:12:08]  And these stories exist everywhere.
[00:12:11]  These stories exist everywhere.
[00:12:13]  And we're simply asking the question what if Zeus isn't just a myth?
[00:12:18]  Yeah, what if they didn't just make it all up?
[00:12:20]  What if Poseidon isn't just a myth?
[00:12:21]  What if they, like all of us, have been lied to many, many times?
[00:12:25]  What if it's embellished and garbled and degraded?
[00:12:28]  And I'm not saying, you know, oh, the Haunted Cosmos is that here's the Bible and then here's the Epic of Gilgamesh.
[00:12:34]  That's what Brian said.
[00:12:35]  No, not at all.
[00:12:37]  But the true story, as it went out into the world and was garbled in sinful peoples and cultures, especially after Babel, was, I think, certainly you see the seed of it in all these cultures.
[00:12:49]  And we're just saying our modern discipleship has led us to at least have a knee jerk instinct.
[00:12:58]  To want to Neil deGrasse Tyson everything.
[00:13:02]  Actually.
[00:13:03]  Which is, you know, Neil deGrasse Tyson is, you know, someone will say, you know, shoot for the moon and if you miss, you'll land among the stars.
[00:13:10]  And he's like, well, actually, the moon is, you know, only this many miles away and you could never reach the stars.
[00:13:16]  We want to constantly demythologize and destroy the moon.
[00:13:20]  Which, by the way, if you want to prove to your friends that you're super based, when they tell you that we never landed on the moon, you respond by saying, what a normie, you believe in the moon?
[00:13:29]  You believe in the moon?
[00:13:30]  You believe birds are real?
[00:13:32]  Whenever anybody tries to say they're more conspiracy pilled than us on Haunted Cosmos, that's what we do.
[00:13:39]  Well, except a lot of people are more conspiracy pilled.
[00:13:41]  You believe in the flat Earth?
[00:13:42]  We believe in the hollow donut flat Earth, the eggshell Earth, inside out.
[00:13:47]  Have you read Jules Verne?
[00:13:49]  It's all true.
[00:13:50]  Yeah.
[00:13:51]  So, okay.
[00:13:53]  So, this is not my view.
[00:13:54]  I'm a little bit too hinged for this, but Brian and Ben, they affirm this 100%.
[00:13:59]  So, getting back to this Atlantean king's wife.
[00:14:03]  Enoch talks a little bit about this, and I keep telling these guys Enoch is not part of the canon.
[00:14:09]  And they're like, Joel, it's 100% true.
[00:14:11]  This is revisionist history.
[00:14:13]  Not true.
[00:14:13]  But basically, okay, so this is the idea just to bring mermaids in here for a little bit for this underwater kingdom situation.
[00:14:20]  And then we need to get to primary water and get back to those sweet springs a little bit.
[00:14:25]  And then I think we should land the plane with more of the spiritual, biblical principle of why haunted.
[00:14:31]  What you already touched on, but I think there's more that we can do.
[00:14:33]  If people here have not listened to the show, they're really confused right now.
[00:14:36]  Yeah, yeah, that's fair.
[00:14:37]  That's fair.
[00:14:38]  Allow me to apologize on Joel's behalf.
[00:14:42]  No, I have a strict no apology policy.
[00:14:46]  So this is what Enoch says.
[00:14:49]  Basically, he's saying that, okay, we can explain the Nephilim and the giants, that you have fallen angels who saw the daughters of men, that they were attractive, and so they took them as wives.
[00:15:02]  And so then you have this hybrid humanoid, half angelic, half fallen angel, half human thing.
[00:15:08]  And that explains the Nephilim.
[00:15:11]  But what Enoch talks about, and again, take it with a grain of salt, but what he talks about is what about these women, daughters of Cain, the human women who chose to engage in this unholy union?
[00:15:24]  Is there a consequence, a judgment for them?
[00:15:26]  No, women don't sin.
[00:15:27]  Oh, yeah.
[00:15:28]  And we have it on good authority.
[00:15:30]  No equal protection.
[00:15:31]  There was probably a hierarchy of power that made irrelevant all of her ages.
[00:15:34]  Right, so they were probably given immediate entrance into heaven just for their childhood.
[00:15:37]  What we're saying right now is that Enoch is the OG abolitionist.
[00:15:41]  Right?
[00:15:42]  Equal protection, equal penalty.
[00:15:43]  Women sin too.
[00:15:44]  They need, you know, some kind of consequence.
[00:15:46]  But Enoch, what he says is that these women who married these fallen angels, that their punishment is that they became sirens, is the word that he uses.
[00:15:55]  What do you guys think?
[00:15:56]  Yeah, so.
[00:15:56]  You hate it, but what do you.
[00:15:58]  But tell us in longer words of how much you hate it.
[00:16:01]  All right, here's why I hate it.
[00:16:03]  Here's why I hate one takeaway from it is that people read that and they say, well, I mean, Jude references Enoch, so it must be true.
[00:16:11]  And I'd say, no, that doesn't then follow because that would mean that Enoch is canon and it's not.
[00:16:17]  And Paul references philosophers and poets that he does not endorse every word they ever say.
[00:16:21]  Exactly.
[00:16:22]  And Peter does the same thing.
[00:16:24]  So I would say that you can't just say, well, since Enoch says it, it's true.
[00:16:27]  But the thing I think is compelling is that the authors of 1st Enoch, or the author, had a category in their mind for a siren.
[00:16:37]  They had room in their mind for a place in creation that the siren occupies.
[00:16:44]  And the siren being a mermaid.
[00:16:45]  The siren being in one side the mermaid, but the Greeks also said that it was like a human.
[00:16:50]  Bird hybrid, a woman bird hybrid.
[00:16:52]  So it's either a mermaid or this really creepy bird lady, which that brings up Lilith motifs on its own, succubus motifs and things like that.
[00:17:02]  Explain Lilith just real quick.
[00:17:03]  So Lilith is, I mean, in Jewish mythology, Lilith was Adam's first wife who rejected Adam's authority and then also spoke the unspeakable name of God and was condemned.
[00:17:16]  And as she was being taken to be drowned, she pled with the Lord to, and this is where it gets really interesting.
[00:17:23]  Interesting.
[00:17:23]  Not that it wasn't already crazy.
[00:17:25]  Exactly.
[00:17:25]  Yeah.
[00:17:26]  Not that this, yeah.
[00:17:27]  Please, Lord, let me just live forever.
[00:17:30]  And I'll tell you what, in return for you letting me do that, I will terrorize new mothers and steal their children.
[00:17:36]  And in this myth, God says, okay.
[00:17:41]  So that's not how it went down.
[00:17:44]  But we do have references to Lilith in the scriptures.
[00:17:46]  Isaiah 34 13, I believe, references Lilith as a being who would dwell in Edom.
[00:17:54]  Once Edom is destroyed by the judgment of God, our modern translation is translated into ostrich or jackal sometimes, mostly ostrich.
[00:18:04]  And they actually do the same thing with the one, or there are several, but the one place that I know of in the Septuagint that the Greek writers said was referring to a siren.
[00:18:15]  And that I believe is in Isaiah 44, but I could be getting that wrong.
[00:18:19]  But it's talking about the destroyed Babylon and how it too is going to become a haunt of jackals and all these things.
[00:18:26]  And in the Septuagint, it says that the sirens will dwell there.
[00:18:30]  Now, the Greek word used is siren.
[00:18:35]  The oldest Hebrew text that we have seems to be this strange phrase that we don't fully understand the meaning of, but that can most likely be taken to mean the daughters of Namah.
[00:18:48]  And if anyone is really good with their Old Testament genealogy, you know that Namah was the daughter or sister of Tubal Cain, who was the maker of the weapons and the instruments and things like that.

=== Sirens in Babylon (14:01) ===

[00:19:00]  And there is this idea that Naamah, the daughter of Tubal Cain, was one of the chief seductresses of the fallen angels.
[00:19:08]  And so she became the mother of the demons.
[00:19:11]  That was this idea, because the Nephilim eventually became the demons.
[00:19:16]  We can talk about that if we want to.
[00:19:18]  Now, again, I don't think that any of that is necessarily true or historically accurate because the Bible doesn't say that.
[00:19:24]  But what we can again say is why was there a category in their mind?
[00:19:30]  What was that doing there?
[00:19:32]  And so, I think that we have a lot of reason to believe from that and also from just historical theology and natural theology, even, that there very well might be a category in creation that a mermaid fits nicely into.
[00:19:46]  And this is also, just for the record, if you've read in The Magician's Nephew about Jadis of Charn, the wicked empress of Charn, and then in The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe, which was written first, when the beavers are explaining.
[00:20:02]  To the Pevensey children, where did Jadis come from?
[00:20:06]  Lewis writes into that story, Oh, she came of Lilith, Adam's first wife.
[00:20:11]  So, if you've ever been confused by that, when you read through that whole mythological arc or that idea is where Lewis got this steeped in the mythology of some of these stories.
[00:20:21]  To me, just to piggyback off that, I think that Lilith came probably of the same origin as the mermaids.
[00:20:30]  And I would look to Babylonian and Mesopotamian myth.
[00:20:34]  To inform us a little bit as to how that may have happened, where Gilgamesh was said to be the daughter of a Lilithu, and Lilith was a Babylonian demon goddess who was always wreaking havoc.
[00:20:44]  She's always an enemy, and she's always trying to steal life, blood, and children.
[00:20:50]  She's an inversion of true feminine.
[00:20:52]  She's an inversion of the mother of all living.
[00:20:54]  She's an inversion of Eve.
[00:20:56]  And I would just say that I would not put my hat on the hook of she used to be a human.
[00:21:03]  I wouldn't do that at all, because we know what happens to the human when they die.
[00:21:07]  But I would say that there was something that took place in that whole Genesis 6 4 mix up that could help us explain the actual creation of these beings and how they came to be.
[00:21:20]  And then how they spread from there and started to wreak havoc on all cultures in the entire world.
[00:21:26]  Every ancient civilization and most pre modern and modern, like non first world civilizations, have a category for this Lilith witch vampiric demon.
[00:21:38]  Right.
[00:21:38]  And for the record, not just before the flood, but I think all three of us would agree in terms of our theory of Nephilim after the flood that we would, you know, it's possible, but I think we would lean towards, I'll speak for myself, leaning towards one fall in terms of chronological order or events, timing, that there was one fall of these angels, you know, that chose to rebel against God, swept out of the sky.
[00:22:03]  And this was pre-flood, but not all of the fallen angels.
[00:22:08]  Although you have, so the picture is like there's a primary group and then a subgroup of that.
[00:22:12]  So, there's one primary group of these angels that fell from heaven, but not all of them took the daughters of men in marriage and trying to, for multiple purposes.
[00:22:23]  I think one is to corrupt the messianic line.
[00:22:26]  That's a lot of Old Testament.
[00:22:29]  The thread is trying to, whether it's Herod killing all the babies in Bethlehem or Pharaoh in Egypt, you see that there's this thread of Satan twisting the hearts of men to try to, he knows, right?
[00:22:42]  He was there that day in the garden.
[00:22:44]  He knows it's the seed of the woman that's going to crush his head.
[00:22:47]  He's got a multiple pronged strategy to try to stop it.
[00:22:51]  And so, one, these fallen angels are trying to corrupt the messianic line from whom the Christ would come, the seed of the woman.
[00:22:58]  And so, that's part of the reason why they're taking the daughters of men.
[00:23:00]  And then, also, I think with angels, you know, Ben and I have talked about there's no federal headship with angels.
[00:23:05]  Human beings are unique in the sense that, you know, there's an argument to be made.
[00:23:09]  I'm not saying this is definitive or objective, but you can argue, I believe, from the scripture that both men and angels are made in the image of God.
[00:23:18]  So, that it's not just unique to humanity.
[00:23:22]  That is an argument that can be made.
[00:23:23]  But one thing that is unique to humanity, if not the Imago Dei, then one thing that is unique to humanity is the fact that we are able to sire, that we are lowercase c creators.
[00:23:35]  God alone is capital C, you know, creates X and the Hilo out of nothing.
[00:23:39]  But we, as his image bearers, are called to create in following his example.
[00:23:46]  We just create with the substance and the things that God has baked into the fabric of the world.
[00:23:50]  We use the resources in this ever growing pie.
[00:23:53]  It's not a zero sum game, but the world that God has made.
[00:23:55]  But angels can't do that like men.
[00:23:59]  Angels, and that's why when it comes to a fall, for instance, talking about a moral fall, the angels before this, chronologically before this, were similar to Adam in the garden, in a state of innocence, you could use that phrasing, in a state of innocence, but able to fall.
[00:24:17]  So not immutable, meaning that you're secure in your innocence and unable to pervert that innocence.
[00:24:26]  So the angels in heaven were in a state of innocence.
[00:24:28]  They were unfallen, but still able to fall.
[00:24:31]  To fall.
[00:24:32]  If you've ever, you know, the Christmas movie, It's a Wonderful Life, every time you hear a bell ring, an angel gets its wings.
[00:24:41]  You know, I think there's a case to be made that, you know, that angels, that maybe it was even on an individual task based assignment, that angels did, you know, were called by God to do something, they fulfilled that something, and then didn't achieve innocence, which they already had, speaking of unfallen angels, but then were solidified, the cement.
[00:25:03]  Hardens and they become immutable, unable to fall.
[00:25:06]  But the point is this angels, unlike man, without federal headship, we all fell in Adam.
[00:25:11]  That's what Brian was talking about.
[00:25:13]  It was so helpful with covenant theology and this idea of being represented.
[00:25:16]  And if you don't like the idea of, well, I don't want to be represented by Adam, well, then you can't be represented by Christ.
[00:25:21]  That's the way federal headship works.
[00:25:23]  And so you did sin in Adam, but angels don't work like that.
[00:25:26]  Angels would have to fall individually because there are no angel fathers, right?
[00:25:31]  And there are no angel kids.
[00:25:33]  And so, All these angels fell at once, several angels, each individually making this decision to rebel against God.
[00:25:40]  But not all of these fallen angels necessarily tried to pervert and corrupt the messianic line by taking the daughters of men and creating sirene offspring.
[00:25:50]  But some did.
[00:25:51]  And so the question of how did the Nephilim return after the flood, right?
[00:25:55]  Because it's like, well, what was the whole point of the flood?
[00:25:58]  It seems as though part of the reason that God sends a global, you know, despite Gavin Hortland, God bless his heart, but you know, a global flood that floods the whole earth.
[00:26:08]  It seems like the whole point was to wipe out the Nephilim, and it's not really, doesn't feel like a good position to take that God failed somehow.
[00:26:15]  So I don't agree with the position of Gilgamesh or Og hanging onto the side of the ark, and I don't agree with even one of the daughters-in-law of Noah having the Nephilim DNA, and that's how it continued.
[00:26:32]  No, I think that the angels did it again.
[00:26:35]  And that's what you see in Genesis 6 is the word is actually whenever the sons of God.
[00:26:41]  Not just when, like one moment, one time, but whenever, at least leaving room, not necessary inference, but at least plausible implication, that they did it more than once.
[00:26:51]  Not the same angels, but again, all these angels, the control group, original group, they fell.
[00:26:56]  A subgroup of that, before the flood, took the daughters of men and created the Nephilim.
[00:27:02]  And then the ones that did that, they, as punishment for such an abominable crime against God, were locked in gloomy dungeons.
[00:27:08]  The other ones were still on the earth.
[00:27:09]  So still fallen from heaven, but not yet locked in gloomy dungeons.
[00:27:13]  Now the flood is over.
[00:27:14]  And then some of them, round two, tried to create a second batch of Nephilim.
[00:27:20]  And this would be like numbers now, which is post flood where Joshua, I don't think it's the 10 spies are lying.
[00:27:26]  I think the indictment of the 10 spies is not that they bring a lying report, a false report, but they bring a bad report.
[00:27:32]  And the bad report is not that they tell something that's untrue, but the fact that they're fearful, that there are Nephilim among the inhabitants of Jericho and the land of Canaan.
[00:27:42]  And these are not just giants that could play in the NBA.
[00:27:45]  That's what you always hear like, oh, we still have Nephilim today.
[00:27:48]  They're in the NBA.
[00:27:49]  No, no, no.
[00:27:49]  We're not talking about guys who are a little bit tall.
[00:27:52]  These are, I think, man-eating giants.
[00:27:55]  They're big, like really, really big.
[00:27:58]  And I think that numbers is, it's not a lie because they're apathetic and don't want to go and take the land.
[00:28:03]  I think they're telling the truth.
[00:28:05]  And their condemnation is not that they lied or deceived, but the fact that despite the opposition, they didn't have faith in God.
[00:28:13]  And so all that back to Atlantis, the king of Atlantis, I'm getting that.
[00:28:17]  But all that back to Atlantis, I think that he was a lowercase g god.
[00:28:23]  And when we say the gods god alone, the triune God, Yahweh, is the only eternal God.
[00:28:30]  And Jesus Christ, in the beginning, was the Word, and the Word was with God.
[00:28:33]  And so Christ is not created, but He is the Creator.
[00:28:36]  Through Him, all things were made.
[00:28:38]  But there were, in a sense, other gods.
[00:28:41]  And this idea that some of these gods would be particularized, that there would be a God who had a certain power over waters or the ocean, like a Poseidon type figure.
[00:28:53]  And then a river God, a forest God, and things like that.
[00:28:57]  And that this particular ocean God, Would set up a kingdom, a city near the ocean that now we're like, that doesn't make sense, it's a desert.
[00:29:05]  But at the time, near the ocean, and have sons with daughters of men, Nephilim, 10 of them, all this fits within a biblical narrative.
[00:29:13]  And to steal an example, in case you want, like, well, give me some biblical examples of this.
[00:29:18]  This is just something I learned from Ben.
[00:29:20]  So you have Elohim, talked about in the scriptures, a word that can refer to the one true God, can also refer to other beings.
[00:29:29]  Psalm 82 is an example of this.
[00:29:32]  Where there's a debate.
[00:29:32]  Is this referring to human rulers?
[00:29:35]  Is it referring to some kind of divine council of spiritual beings that are created, but that was essentially like a mediating council through which God achieved his purposes in heaven and on earth?
[00:29:45]  We see that kind of thing happening in scripture where angels go in the book of Daniel, and I wrestled with the prince of Persia for this many weeks, Daniel, before I could bring this message.
[00:29:56]  So we know that happens.
[00:29:58]  But even if you look at the plagues in Egypt, and this is what I learned from Ben.
[00:30:03]  You look at the progression of the plagues, where the wise or the magicians of Pharaoh's court were able to match some of the signs that Moses and Aaron were doing in God's name.
[00:30:17]  Now, God brings the first plague, and then the Nile turned to blood.
[00:30:21]  Yeah, first plague is the water turning to blood.
[00:30:24]  And that was a God.
[00:30:28]  It was a God.
[00:30:28]  It was the God of the rivers flooding.
[00:30:32]  That gave a good crop yield.
[00:30:34]  And so God judges, you know, hey, this river that you worship, watch me kill him.
[00:30:39]  So he kills him and his blood fills the Nile.
[00:30:44]  The problem is that the magicians can do that too.
[00:30:46]  Oh, they turn water to blood.
[00:30:47]  Contrast, you know, and I love John Calvin.
[00:30:49]  Contrast someone like Calvin, it doesn't say that it was an illusion, it said that they did it.
[00:30:53]  No, and this is like the Prince of Egypt, where the movie, I mean, where they have the magicians.
[00:30:58]  This is our anti supernaturalist thinking getting in.
[00:31:01]  We think, oh, here, this was David Blaine.
[00:31:04]  Who may actually be a demon?
[00:31:05]  Yeah, honestly, that's a bad example.
[00:31:07]  You know, he may actually be a time traveling demon.
[00:31:10]  He may actually be something.
[00:31:11]  They're able to actually, it just says that they do this thing.
[00:31:15]  But when you get into the third plague, though, the frogs.
[00:31:18]  So the frogs is two.
[00:31:20]  Oh, yeah, sorry.
[00:31:21]  And the fascinating thing is that so once the river flooded, once the Nile flooded, all of the frogs would still put their eggs on the banks of the Nile.
[00:31:30]  But now the banks of the Nile are closer to the people's homes and they're closer to the crops.
[00:31:34]  So eventually, what that meant is that all of these frogs would start to show up closer to people's houses and they would know, ah, it's time for a good crop yield.
[00:31:45]  And so the goddess of fertility, crop yield, fruitfulness, was a woman with a head of a frog.
[00:31:54]  They associated the frog with fertility, and it makes a lot of sense.
[00:31:58]  God said, Oh, well, this frog that you worship for fertility, I'll tell you what, I'll kill her too.
[00:32:03]  And now, if you love fertility so much, well, now you've got frogs in your bed.
[00:32:06]  Good luck having a good time with that.
[00:32:09]  But the other thing is that oftentimes in these pantheon of gods and goddesses, you had primary roles and then sub roles.
[00:32:16]  And so, one of the sub roles of this goddess of fertility, and this is common in Greece and most ancient cultures, was she was also the goddess of necromancy and witchcraft.
[00:32:26]  And so, the.
[00:32:28]  Egyptian magicians are able to match that plague.
[00:32:31]  Pound for pound, they're going.
[00:32:32]  They're able to give the frogs, they're able to put the water into the knot, or the blood into the water.
[00:32:38]  But once their goddess of necromancy is dead, they can't match them anymore.
[00:32:44]  They can't do their witchcraft anymore.
[00:32:45]  They can't do it.
[00:32:46]  Because witchcraft is not, you know, we think of, in our turn, we think J.K. Rowling, okay?
[00:32:51]  There's this force, this ethereal force that Harry Potter is tapping into.
[00:32:57]  The boy you live, come to die.
[00:32:59]  That's our Owen Wilson as Voldemort impersonation.

=== Trampling Water Gods (07:13) ===

[00:33:01]  Wow.
[00:33:04]  Necromancy and witchcraft isn't just tapping into an ethereal force that's like gravity or electromagnetism.
[00:33:10]  It's actually manipulating spiritual entities to achieve ends that are contrary to nature that you want to achieve.
[00:33:18]  So you're actually more like the Witch of Endor with Samuel using a familiar spirit, a demonic entity or a spiritual entity that is telling you things, or an axe, the girl that had the demon that would allow her to prophesy and foretell.
[00:33:35]  That was bringing great gain to her masters.
[00:33:38]  So, what's fascinating in this story in Egypt, and I think it demonstrates the actual spiritual reality of some of these false gods as actual spiritual beings who maybe were and definitely were pretending and holding themselves up as I'm a God to be worshiped.
[00:33:57]  They ought to have been servants of the one true living God, like the angels that didn't fall were, instead held themselves up for worship.
[00:34:03]  And here God shows up, judges this God.
[00:34:06]  And then all of a sudden, the magicians lose their ability because the spirit that was helping them was judged by the true God.
[00:34:15]  And why that matters is because it doesn't devalue, it elevates Christ, it elevates Yahweh, the one true God.
[00:34:22]  Like, for instance, so I think of the book of Job.
[00:34:27]  Satan has power in the Job narrative to command the wind, right?
[00:34:34]  Because one of the things that Satan does to torment Job.
[00:34:38]  All this underneath the banner of God's sovereignty.
[00:34:40]  He's only allowed to do what God allows.
[00:34:43]  But in one of the cases, it's not just the Chaldeans and the theft of the camels and this over here and that over there, the fire with the donkeys, but also the house.
[00:34:52]  A great wind comes up and causes the collapse of this house where Job's children are gathered and they're killed.
[00:35:02]  And we know that from the text that the implication is that Satan is behind the wind.
[00:35:07]  And that doesn't make Christ.
[00:35:10]  And the gospel narratives, less, in my opinion, it makes them more.
[00:35:13]  So, when we see the disciples and Jesus, you know, in the middle of the Sea of Galilee on a boat, and there's a great storm, and Jesus, you know, is asleep, and then he all of a sudden is woken up because they're about to perish, and he cries out, you know, he really doesn't even cry out.
[00:35:28]  He just, you know, nonchalantly says, Hey, wind, waves, cut it out.
[00:35:33]  And they're shocked, right?
[00:35:34]  Who is this who has the authority, right?
[00:35:39]  It's a statement of authority who has the authority to command even the wind and waves, and they obey him.
[00:35:43]  And so, then our takeaway, I think, sometimes.
[00:35:46]  Is that what makes Jesus the one true God?
[00:35:51]  Is that He alone, He has the exclusive authority over wind and waves.
[00:35:55]  But what if, just submitting it for your own careful, biblical, prayerful consideration, what if part of the reason the disciples, as very experienced fishermen who had been in storms on the sea before, what if the reason they're so terrified is that they know that this particular storm is so severe that it must have a supernatural origin, that this is no ordinary storm, and that there's actually another God, lowercase g God, That has power over wind and waves and is causing this storm in the first place.
[00:36:24]  So, what Jesus is silencing is not just wind and waves and nature, which he does have authority over, but in addition, not less than that, but more, he is also silencing every other God because he's more powerful.
[00:36:36]  And then to take that further, when Jesus walks on water, what if he's trampling, he's not just defying nature and physics to show that he is the God who created nature and physics, but he is also trampling over the gods, that there are water gods and water gods.
[00:36:53]  Kingdoms that control wind and waves and storms, and Jesus is actually putting them under his feet.
[00:36:59]  I think it's worth doing a little legwork to show why we would say, like, what use does God have in setting some spiritual, angelic type being over a geographical area or an elemental area like a river, a sea, a mountain?
[00:37:16]  I think that it's worth doing a little bit of work to show why he might do that.
[00:37:20]  And I would, first of all, use the Exodus story as an example of that very explicitly happening.
[00:37:26]  You have a river God.
[00:37:27]  And he's actually there.
[00:37:28]  But we also know that God just loves to use means.
[00:37:32]  He could have created the world in less than an instant.
[00:37:35]  Instead, he chose to take his time.
[00:37:37]  He took six days.
[00:37:39]  He could have created just man.
[00:37:42]  Instead, he created a bunch of creatures that man can rule over in his stead as his vicegerent.
[00:37:47]  He could have just implanted his word into the minds of every Israelite whenever they needed to repent, but instead, he sent prophets.
[00:37:54]  He could have just implanted his word directly into the minds of the prophets, but instead, oftentimes, he sent an angelic messenger to inform the prophet.
[00:38:02]  We know that God loves to use means.
[00:38:04]  There's just something in his nature that loves to see the creation that he thought up work gloriously in the vein that he created it in.
[00:38:16]  God takes great pleasure in things following their nature in the way that he ordained them.
[00:38:21]  And so I don't think that it's superfluous to propose that there could be sort of elemental spirits that are governing different regions of the world.
[00:38:32]  I mean, we know that this is true from texts like.
[00:38:35]  Daniel 10, the prince of Persia, that's clearly an angelic being.
[00:38:39]  Exodus 28 is speaking of the prince of Tyre and then the king of Tyre.
[00:38:44]  And the king of Tyre is a guardian cherub who fell in pride.
[00:38:49]  So he's elevating the authority when he's speaking to the spiritual entity instead of to the just human king and authority.
[00:38:57]  And so I think that it's actually very natural to go from that and other ideas of the stars being governors of the days and the months and the years and things like that.
[00:39:09]  And say, well, it seems to make perfect sense then that if we live in a world in which the visible and the invisible are overlaid and interwoven tightly on one another, that everywhere, Brian likes to say this a lot, so it's not me, but everywhere you pull on the visible, you're also tugging a little bit on the invisible.
[00:39:28]  Everywhere there is a river flowing, there is God in his sovereign decree giving command to that river to flow.
[00:39:38]  But what if he's also, which would be very on brand, For him, using another intermediate servant of his to govern that river.
[00:39:47]  So that's just a really quick, again, for your prayerful consideration, legwork to show why this could very well be reasonable.
[00:39:55]  And the reason why some of this is important, getting back to the major theme of why do something like Haunted Cosmos, the reason why it's important, a number of reasons.
[00:40:05]  But one is I think the world right now is, and I'm not the first person to say this, many people have said it, but I think of Joe Rigney, but the world is desperate to re enchant itself.

=== Spiritual vs Material World (15:14) ===

[00:40:15]  In part because secular humanism and Darwinianism and materialism have been so absolutely detrimental to society and culture, and everybody feels it, not just believers.
[00:40:27]  Like everybody, like Joe Rogan is saying, turns out we need Jesus.
[00:40:32]  Now, just for the record, one thing that would be nice, we were talking about this offline a little bit before we came on, but one thing that would be nice, I think of Bill Maher, he's the pinnacle example of this.
[00:40:45]  The little meme picture that says, I didn't move, I didn't change, the left left me, and it shows that guy, he used to be a moderate in the middle, and then it shows wokeness and how everybody just went so far left.
[00:41:02]  So, really, all that is, it's a cope.
[00:41:07]  The biblical word for it would be just rank impenitence.
[00:41:10]  So, what Bill Maher wants to do is he wants to say, Look, I'm the reasonable one here, and you guys, the problem is that people just went too far, they were too crazy.
[00:41:17]  What he doesn't want to acknowledge is that this is the exact consistent fruit of everything I gave my life to build.
[00:41:23]  This thing that I hate, I made it.
[00:41:26]  Like Joe Rogan, really?
[00:41:27]  We need Jesus?
[00:41:28]  You're going to say we need Jesus when you've been mocking Jesus for 30 years publicly?
[00:41:34]  Like James Lindsay, the new atheist, right?
[00:41:39]  And now you're going to realize, because now it's encroaching on your skill and your academic discourse, right?
[00:41:45]  Because it turns out you need little things like logic.
[00:41:48]  And reason, and they're not just hanging in midair.
[00:41:51]  You actually need the Christian worldview to continue to mock the Christian worldview.
[00:41:55]  Like, isn't that ironic?
[00:41:57]  You know?
[00:41:58]  And that's where we are now.
[00:41:59]  And so, you know, it's this argument of, you know, I'm a moderate or I'm reasonable or whatever.
[00:42:04]  But really, what it is, is a refusal to repent and say, this is a, I'm Frankenstein and this is the monster that I made.
[00:42:11]  And that's Bill Maher, that's Joe Rogan, that's James Lindsay.
[00:42:14]  And what happens societally is that, and Jesus tells of this exact pattern happening with a person, a household, that you banish a demon.
[00:42:23]  And then you can sweep it clean, the house.
[00:42:26]  But then, if you don't fill it, he'll come back.
[00:42:29]  He'll go through waterless places.
[00:42:30]  He'll come back with seven worse.
[00:42:31]  So, what happened, if you picture the West as a house, is that Christianity went out and it leavened and it converted the nations and the Germanic pagans and it killed their gods.
[00:42:42]  And all, you know, Thor is dead and Christ is king.
[00:42:45]  And we swept the house and we really did fill the house with Christ.
[00:42:49]  But then apostasy happened on a mass national and cultural scale.
[00:42:54]  And so now what happened is that materialism, which is just not like I like buying things, it's the idea that there is only stuff, that just the material world is all there is.
[00:43:06]  It banished, it exercised Christianity and apostasy from the house.
[00:43:10]  And then it said, oh, this is great.
[00:43:12]  The house is clean, they thought.
[00:43:13]  We got rid of God.
[00:43:15]  And what's happening is that societally, that doesn't hold.
[00:43:19]  Materialism is so stupid and impossible to believe that people are just not, people are worshiping creatures.
[00:43:27]  We were made to worship.
[00:43:29]  And so instead of getting this, what they thought would be neat, tidy materialism, what we're getting instead is people doing DMT and talking to serpent gods.
[00:43:38]  We're getting.
[00:43:39]  The old gods returning.
[00:43:41]  We're getting people filling the house with all the old demons and with spiritual things.
[00:43:47]  So, one of the reasons that we said, why a show like Conocosmos?
[00:43:51]  What are we trying to do?
[00:43:52]  Well, it's apologetic in nature, it's didactic for Christians, but it's also a show where we're saying, no, world, don't go back to the old gods.
[00:44:03]  Don't go back to the old gods.
[00:44:05]  You actually need the Holy Spirit.
[00:44:07]  You need Christ to come, not just for us to tell you the true history that you're twisting and mythologizing with all the paganism and.
[00:44:15]  And false spirituality and demonic spirituality and human sacrifice and all these things that are just roaring back to life, you actually need the Holy Spirit.
[00:44:24]  So pray, legitimately, pray for, as silly as it sounds, like pray for the Bigfoot podcast.
[00:44:32]  That sounds really weird.
[00:44:33]  But non Christians email us all the time.
[00:44:35]  And people who are not Christians are listening and being compelled.
[00:44:40]  I think the Lord is using it to actually reach non Christians with the gospel.
[00:44:47]  because of this exact pattern that you're talking about.
[00:44:49]  Yeah, and one of the things that we really believe is that people are compelled by story.
[00:44:56]  People are compelled by things that are good, true, and beautiful.
[00:45:00]  And story encapsulates those three things really effectively when it's done well.
[00:45:05]  And so it's no secret that one of the aspects of the world that we focus on heavily on Haunted Cosmos is the darker thing.
[00:45:16]  We do think that Christians ought to be interested so far as is appropriate.
[00:45:21]  And the things that are a little bit scary, the things that are sad, the things that are tragic, because those things are real.
[00:45:29]  Because they're real in the world.
[00:45:31]  And it's the world that God made and it's the story he's telling.
[00:45:34]  So we have to be interested.
[00:45:36]  We have to read.
[00:45:37]  We have to understand the story that we're in.
[00:45:39]  So, yeah, we focus on that a lot, but the main tenor and thrust of the show that we hope comes through is that those things are only so dark because there is real light that's there.
[00:45:51]  There's real glory that's there.
[00:45:53]  We've just been blind to it.
[00:45:54]  You know, our eyes have become like unto our hearts, hardened, crusted over.
[00:45:59]  And so we need them to have the scales removed once again and see the glorious light for what it is.
[00:46:04]  But in order to do that, especially when you're talking to a world that's been so catechized by materialism, is to show them, like, look how ugly.
[00:46:12]  Look how scary.
[00:46:13]  Sometimes it's entertaining.
[00:46:14]  Sometimes, you know, Bigfoot stories are goofy.
[00:46:17]  But yeah, look how ugly that is.
[00:46:19]  Look how beautiful that is.
[00:46:22]  Sometimes it is, I mean, the scriptures do this all the time.
[00:46:25]  Sometimes the threat is effective.
[00:46:27]  Sometimes the threat of judgment.
[00:46:29]  The Westminster says we should tremble at the threats of apostasy and what comes from that.
[00:46:35]  Why?
[00:46:35]  So that we can better appreciate the blessings.
[00:46:38]  We should tremble at the threats of the darkness so that we can better relish in the safety and security and the peace of the living God and the light that He gives us.
[00:46:46]  Because we only see light through His light, because He is light.
[00:46:50]  So you have to show the world what you're going to get.
[00:46:54]  When you get out of his light.
[00:46:57]  And that's not just atheism, and that's not just, it's not merely killing children.
[00:47:02]  It is that.
[00:47:03]  It's certainly not less than that, but it's sacrificing children to a demon god.
[00:47:08]  That is a real thing.
[00:47:09]  That is real.
[00:47:11]  It's not a figment of the imagination.
[00:47:13]  You're sacrificing to a demon goddess who wants you and every other image bearer to die because that's how much she or whatever hates God.
[00:47:22]  Yeah.
[00:47:22]  If you hate God, you'll hate God everywhere you see him, and you see him most clearly in the face of man.
[00:47:27]  So the image bearer.
[00:47:29]  Some people have objected and said, like, why tell dark stories?
[00:47:32]  Why tell scary stories?
[00:47:34]  Isn't this just glorifying?
[00:47:35]  In the macabre, and isn't this that kind of thing?
[00:47:37]  And I say, well, for the same reason that when Tolkien tells the story of Helm's Deep, he doesn't skip over the orcs, right?
[00:47:46]  When Tolkien tells the story of Angolia, he doesn't just whitewash over all of the vomit of her darkness, right?
[00:47:54]  This is in order for the Christian story to be fully told, it's also a story that includes deep, deep darkness.
[00:48:01]  Something I talked about in the talk yesterday that the scriptures.
[00:48:06]  Plumb the depths of death and darkness.
[00:48:09]  And they do so so that Jesus Christ can stride in to Israel, which has become like an Egypt, overrun with unclean spirits and worshiping false gods and demanding the blood of children, which all that's true.
[00:48:22]  Jesus can stride in and he can send them into the abyss and he can clean the land, he can bring healing from all the death, and he can truly conquer.
[00:48:32]  Right, so that God can show off.
[00:48:33]  The only way that God gets to show off.
[00:48:36]  His left hook is if he uses his right arm to hold up his opponent.
[00:48:42]  When you're infinite and all of your enemies are like grasshoppers, when we think of Yahweh, the triune God, the God of Israel, we think of his majesty and his power.
[00:48:56]  We think of the God who parted the Red Sea.
[00:48:58]  We think of the ten plagues of Egypt.
[00:49:01]  The only reason we have ten is because God is throwing out plague after plague with one hand.
[00:49:06]  And having to supernaturally hold up Pharaoh with the other so that he doesn't tap out after one play.
[00:49:12]  You know, like that's this idea of him supernaturally hardening Pharaoh's heart.
[00:49:16]  It required a divine miracle just to get a guy to be stubborn enough to say, hit me again.
[00:49:23]  You know, like, so that's, you know, so, anyways.
[00:49:27]  But all that being said, with the, you know, the world is not just stuff and the world wanting to re enchant itself to put it, you know, to bring it home a little bit more for us.
[00:49:36]  I think that the reformed world has been particularly bad at this.
[00:49:40]  Like, I think Christians, maybe in general, but especially us reformed folk.
[00:49:43]  And that's one of the reasons why I'm appreciative of Haunted Cosmos because, yeah, there's a lot of podcasts in this space right now.
[00:49:51]  But you guys are one of the only people I know that's, I mean, most of them are Christian, but like, honestly, if you're ever wondering, you're listening to whatever it is, you know, Blurry Creatures, they're great guys, you know, or there's different podcasts.
[00:50:04]  But if you're ever wondering, what's their eschatology?
[00:50:06]  Dispensational premillennialism, guaranteed.
[00:50:09]  Every single one of them.
[00:50:10]  You know, they, You know, they read the Left Behind series, and that was good enough for them, right?
[00:50:15]  And so that's like every single one of these guys in the unhinged high strangeness space is like 90% of them are professing Christians, but they're all usually, you know, ultra charismatic.
[00:50:29]  Just being frank, they're ultra charismatic, they're pre male, they're dispy, and that's that.
[00:50:34]  Very little seatbelt, right?
[00:50:35]  And then the reformed folks are just too sophisticated.
[00:50:41]  Not all of them, believe it or not, like Haunted Cosmos.
[00:50:43]  Yeah, exactly.
[00:50:44]  And so that's my point is that.
[00:50:46]  I think the Reformed Church, our wing of evangelicalism, we've made two mistakes, really, not just one, but two mistakes.
[00:50:55]  On the one hand, we've spiritualized everything, right?
[00:50:58]  So that gets back to like the pietism thing that we were talking about.
[00:51:01]  Everything's spiritual, right?
[00:51:02]  So if on Twitter you say, hey, maybe men should work out and physical strength, you know, if physical training is, the Bible doesn't say is of no value, you know, it's not equal with training for godliness.
[00:51:13]  Nobody's saying that.
[00:51:14]  But Paul says he doesn't say equal value.
[00:51:16]  He also doesn't say no value.
[00:51:17]  He says some value, you know.
[00:51:19]  So GM Kings hit the gym today, right?
[00:51:23]  And who loses their mind?
[00:51:25]  Reform Twitter, right?
[00:51:26]  It's the reform guys.
[00:51:28]  And they're like, what?
[00:51:30]  Something practical, tangible, physical.
[00:51:32]  Never.
[00:51:33]  You know?
[00:51:34]  Shouldn't be lifting your weights.
[00:51:35]  You've got to be lifting the Bible.
[00:51:37]  Right.
[00:51:38]  Or if it's sundresses and sourdough.
[00:51:40]  Right again, because it's practical, it's physical.
[00:51:41]  Now.
[00:51:43]  Now.
[00:51:44]  Headship in theory only.
[00:51:46]  No application.
[00:51:48]  The Wonder Bread becomes sourdough once you partake of it.
[00:51:54]  That's funny.
[00:51:55]  Just along with the grape juice.
[00:51:56]  That was good.
[00:51:58]  That hurts.
[00:51:58]  It doesn't hurt me.
[00:51:59]  Are you booing grape juice?
[00:52:00]  We're wine.
[00:52:01]  Why are you booing me?
[00:52:02]  I'm right.
[00:52:02]  All right.
[00:52:03]  So.
[00:52:04]  But all that means, so my point is, on the one hand, and this is the irony.
[00:52:08]  So I think there's two mistakes that the reform camp makes on this topic that we're addressing this afternoon.
[00:52:13]  One, we spiritualize everything.
[00:52:15]  A lot of our good brothers and sisters that we love that are right, they're right on justification, right?
[00:52:20]  They're right on a lot of stuff.
[00:52:22]  They're right on the gospel.
[00:52:23]  But on this issue, they miss it two ways.
[00:52:27]  On one hand, they're pietistic and they over spiritualize, right?
[00:52:32]  So that something practical like working out, the physical world is of.
[00:52:36]  Virtually no value.
[00:52:37]  But on the other hand, when it does come to thinking about the physical world, they're not spiritual at all.
[00:52:46]  It's only materialism.
[00:52:48]  It's only, well, this is, you know, actually Einstein said, you know, it's like Calvin's approach that he wouldn't even engage the fallen angel view because it's just his argument is, oh, that's silly, that's preposterous, and I won't even give it a second thought.
[00:53:02]  Even still, you know where I get.
[00:53:03]  Rare Calvin L., by the way.
[00:53:05]  They're rare.
[00:53:06]  But he's using the W. You know where the idea of fallen angels reigning over geographic locations comes from?
[00:53:12]  Calvin.
[00:53:13]  And his commentaries on Genesis.
[00:53:15]  Really?
[00:53:15]  So even Calvin was not such a dullard as we are now.
[00:53:19]  I mean, of course he wasn't.
[00:53:20]  But yeah, he dismissed certain things.
[00:53:23]  But even still, he lived and he was inheriting overall a glorious Renaissance view of the world that I think was quite well balanced for a while until the Enlightenment people came along.
[00:53:35]  So my point is, I think the two ways is, on one hand, you can be pietistic.
[00:53:39]  Especially our reformed brothers and sisters, of which many of us are, I am, you can over spiritualize and be pietistic.
[00:53:47]  On the other hand, when you're moving from the spiritual category to the physical world, you can be too materialistic.
[00:53:55]  So the problem is basically seeing these two things as completely and utterly divorced from one another, that they're completely separate.
[00:54:04]  And so I think the trick is to say the world is not just stuff.
[00:54:09]  And at the same time, To also say GM Kings and bust out a couple reps, the world is also stuff.
[00:54:16]  You know, it's both.
[00:54:18]  And I mean, it's impressive when you really think of that, but the reformed people have found a way to fail at both simultaneously.
[00:54:25]  We failed with the world being stuff and the world not being stuff.
[00:54:28]  And so what we want to say is it's both.
[00:54:30]  It is this physical world that God has made, there's a spiritual reality, and the idea that the two shall never meet is not biblical.
[00:54:40]  In the physical, you were trying to obey the nature as God wrote it.
[00:54:45]  Men, you were made for strength.
[00:54:47]  Be strong.
[00:54:49]  Women, you were made for glorious fruitfulness.
[00:54:53]  Be fruitful, right?
[00:54:54]  In the supernatural world, we're testing the spirits.
[00:54:58]  We're testing the spirits, and so that we can see through the deception of even the spiritual powers that would appear as angel of light.
[00:55:06]  And that's another thing we're trying to do here is demonstrate the banality of demons, that alien abductions, Bigfoot stories, and maybe ghost stories all share these commonalities because they're often the same deception wearing a different mask.

=== Testing Angelic Spirits (02:44) ===

[00:55:29]  And so, Christians need to be able to see through that, test the Spirit, say, ah, that's a deception.
[00:55:33]  I can tell you what kind of deception it is, and tell their neighbor the answer isn't to be taken in by that deception, it's to worship Christ.
[00:55:41]  Amen.
[00:55:42]  My family's been in and out right now.
[00:55:44]  My oldest is still here.
[00:55:46]  The little ones are doing nap time.
[00:55:48]  But my oldest, Olive, is over there with Nana.
[00:55:52]  Olive, did you know that four weeks ago, remember when dad was in the studio all day long and I told you I was working?
[00:55:57]  Did you know dad has work that week?
[00:55:59]  Talking about mermaids for 12 hours.
[00:56:02]  It's pretty cool, huh?
[00:56:03]  Good job.
[00:56:04]  Your dad has a cool job.
[00:56:06]  So, all right, so all that being said, we, you know, a promise is a promise.
[00:56:10]  I feel like, you know, we can land the plane with some primary water.
[00:56:13]  Primary water, we got to do primary water.
[00:56:14]  So back to Atlantis and these fountains coming from the center, and there's these three concentric, you know, circles ebbing out from that.
[00:56:22]  Ben, do you want to go first, and then I'll give my thoughts too?
[00:56:24]  But what is, if you could give a basic, I know it's my thing, but you're smarter than me.
[00:56:29]  What is, simple definition, primary water?
[00:56:32]  Okay, you're too kind.
[00:56:35]  Okay, so my understanding is that the largely accepted view as it stands now of the origin of water on the Earth is the atmospheric view.
[00:56:46]  So we have the water cycle, evaporation, and then condensation, precipitation, and it just recycles itself.
[00:56:53]  So you have really, really old water, it's all been here for a really long time.
[00:56:57]  If we ever get new water, it has to come from off world.
[00:57:01]  An asteroid lands, it's full of ice, we get more water.
[00:57:05]  Or some other weird event, some other act of God.
[00:57:08]  Fills the ocean over billions of years.
[00:57:10]  Yeah, exactly.
[00:57:11]  But the view that primary water posits is what if that's not true?
[00:57:15]  What if we're actually having new water made in the earth, on the earth, and in the earth all the time?
[00:57:22]  So the massive amounts of heat and pressure that are found underneath the earth's surface and closer to its center, mixing with all the minerals and the elements that we find, and granite and gneiss and basalt and all this stuff, can actually.
[00:57:37]  Create water as a chemical deposit that then fills caverns that are in the earth.
[00:57:43]  And then, when tectonic plates shift, or when there's an existing shaft that goes up to the earth's surface and there's a critical mass of water within it, it shoots up to the surface and we get new water.
[00:57:55]  So, the idea with this is that, like where it lands, is that yes, we'd be constantly making new water on the earth.
[00:58:03]  But why that's important is because instead of drinking water that's 5,000 years old, you'd be drinking water that's six days old.
[00:58:11]  And it's nutrient dense.

=== Biblical Fountain of Youth (09:50) ===

[00:58:14]  Right.
[00:58:15]  That's actually where we start to get into some practical stuff.
[00:58:17]  Right.
[00:58:18]  So, two, I mean, it could be limitless, but two, you know, just hypothetical, you know, conceptions of uses or purposes of primary water would be one would be beautification, that you could actually eradicate deserts in theory, you know, and then the second, though, would be like, so that kind of gets the Atlantean idea, not just the Atlantean of old, but a restored Atlantis.
[00:58:38]  Joel's about to talk about the fountain of youth.
[00:58:40]  I'm about to go off, yeah.
[00:58:42]  But then the other is elongated life, the fountain of youth.
[00:58:45]  And so, in a biblical perspective, fountain of youth, right?
[00:58:48]  So, in a biblical perspective, think of Isaiah 65.
[00:58:51]  And so, within the framework of a hopeful post millennial eschatology, Isaiah 65 is such a great passage because it talks about how at that time the youth shall die at 100.
[00:59:03]  And no longer shall anyone, you know, any child die in infancy, which you just, if you're taking God at his word there, that's not just diseases where a child would die in infancy, but that would eradicate all miscarriages, and that certainly would include all abortion.
[00:59:19]  So, a time would come where abortion actually is abolished completely, and not just some rhino Republican saying there's no more abortion in our state, meanwhile, women are taking potions and pills, but no, really abolished, truly abolished, and not only just premeditated murder, which is what abortion is, but also disease and miscarriage and these kinds of things, which is incredible, but not just the infancy thing, but back to the youth shall die at 100.
[00:59:46]  You think of the way that lifespans have already increased, just in the last few hundred years.
[00:59:52]  Where there was a time not that long ago in the big scope of things where people, you know, if somebody died at 50, you know, people would say, wow, he lived a long life.
[00:59:59]  You know, whereas if somebody dies at 50 years old today, we would say, you know, man, they were so young, right?
[01:00:06]  And in a sense, you know, to paraphrase that, we say, he was just a youth, right?
[01:00:10]  So when Isaiah 65 is saying the youth shall die at 100, what it's saying is that if someone dies at 100, that person, relatively speaking, is young, which presupposes the idea that, you know, like a Ricky Bobby kind of situation, you know, nobody lives forever, but, you know, 250, 265.
[01:00:25]  Five, you know, with my high level income.
[01:00:26]  And, anyways, so some of you don't get the quote because you're more righteous than I. Good on you.
[01:00:33]  You don't even know what I'm talking about.
[01:00:34]  I would never, never watch Will Ferrell.
[01:00:37]  So, anyways, it's a Will Ferrell quote.
[01:00:40]  But it's the idea the point is this the youth shall still die at 100.
[01:00:43]  This is not heaven, right?
[01:00:46]  Because in heaven, at what age do people die in heaven?
[01:00:50]  Never, right?
[01:00:51]  You know, trick question.
[01:00:52]  Great.
[01:00:54]  You've passed.
[01:00:55]  Nope, nobody dies in heaven.
[01:00:56]  So, this is still on earth in the millennial kingdom, but before the final physical return of Christ.
[01:01:04]  So, it's, you know, depending on your position, it's what some post millennial guys would conceive of as like a golden age.
[01:01:13]  And maybe that is a literal thousand years, not the whole millennial kingdom itself, but maybe this final portion of it, a golden age where the nations no longer know war, where infancy, mortality is completely eradicated, and where there's this lengthening of life.
[01:01:29]  Where, if you died at 100, you were young.
[01:01:31]  And so, you know, the average lifespan at that point is much longer.
[01:01:35]  And I like to think that, you know, Christmas time, you know, everybody's post millennial when it's Christmas, you know, and you're singing, you know, He comes to make His blessings flow as far as the curse is found.
[01:01:48]  You know, and I like to think that maybe the second and final Adam, Christ, would beat the first Adam, even in lifespans that before heaven, in this time.
[01:01:59]  Gospel age towards the end of it that the first person to live to be a thousand years old could happen.
[01:02:05]  I like to think of just the gospel that'll preach.
[01:02:09]  And so that idea is well, what if it's not just that we're elongating lifespans, but the quality of life is that you're just hooked up to wires and Neuralink Elon is in the back of your head and you're taking pills all day long.
[01:02:26]  Because a lot, honestly, let's be honest, Western medicine in its root, I think we were on to a good start.
[01:02:32]  You know, like on the side of an ambulance, you'll see, you know, this staff and a snake, you know, going right.
[01:02:37]  That's a Christian symbol.
[01:02:38]  That's not demonic and the same, you know, the serpent.
[01:02:41]  That's Moses.
[01:02:42]  And the Bible.
[01:02:43]  I knew how to read Ben's Bible.
[01:02:44]  Let me just finish my thought.
[01:02:46]  That's indicative of the staff, the bronze serpent that Moses lifts up, and indicative of healing.
[01:02:52]  My point is this in the West, Christians have paved the way for medicine, but with our apostasy and turning our back on Christ, so too there has been an apostasy.
[01:03:02]  And if you turn your back on Christ, then you're going to pervert everything else.
[01:03:07]  And so, medicine these days is not, you can't just take it for granted.
[01:03:14]  A lot of medicine today is corrupt, and a lot of it is.
[01:03:18]  Is just, it's really just trade offs.
[01:03:21]  It's, okay, you'll live longer here, but we're gonna kill you over here.
[01:03:27]  You know, like medicine helps, and also medicine is hurting us at the very same time.
[01:03:32]  And so, the idea that I like about primary water is it's not saying that people would live for, you know, hundreds of years because of medicine, especially the medicine over the past recent decades and the way that we think of it today, you know, this pharmaceutical, you know, kind of like, you know, pharmaceutical.
[01:03:50]  Almost witchcraft in some cases, it straight up is.
[01:03:53]  But no, we're saying through natural means, through natural means, the Christian worldview winning the day and making discoveries of what God has already baked into the fabric of His creation, something as simple as water, but new water.
[01:04:06]  And that what if the secret is not taking 47 pills a day, but the secret is just a nice glass of water.
[01:04:14]  And you could live to be a thousand years old because the water you're drinking is not a thousand years old or six thousand years old because up until now, that's been the main conception is the hydrological cycle.
[01:04:24]  That all we have is recycled old water.
[01:04:26]  And this would be new water that water is being made.
[01:04:29]  And the other thing that that would eradicate in terms of bad world views is that you would have new water and more water.
[01:04:35]  Because that's another thing that science, you know, science, TM, you know, alleged science has told us is that we have not only old recycled water and we can never get new water, but we also have a finite amount of it.
[01:04:48]  And so, you know, we're very concerned about overpopulation.
[01:04:51]  And this would just, if it's true, would just completely debunk the overpopulation myth.
[01:04:57]  The primary water thing for me.
[01:04:59]  Everything you said about Fountain of Youth, I would say, wow, that's a really interesting idea.
[01:05:05]  And footnote, or like, what's the word?
[01:05:09]  Where are my sources?
[01:05:10]  I made it up.
[01:05:11]  We're excited.
[01:05:12]  We're excited.
[01:05:13]  I made it up.
[01:05:14]  But for me, the most important reason I think this is a really fascinating question is that.
[01:05:19]  It's this idea of did God make a world where it's just, there's this thing that you absolutely are required for life?
[01:05:27]  And then he also just gave this very scarce amount of it.
[01:05:31]  Or did God make a world where through magmatic processes deep in the earth, water?
[01:05:35]  I think this is also similar to the abiotic theory of oil, which is another interesting theory, maybe some of you have looked into that oil is not really dinosaurs and trees that have fallen down a million billion years ago, but is an abiotic product that's made through geologic processes in the earth.
[01:05:50]  These are kind of similar to me that God is a good father, He gives us enough.
[01:05:56]  He doesn't say, Go be fruitful and take dominion and multiply, and then He says, Oops, you did it, too much.
[01:06:01]  Now there's no more water, and people have to abort their kids, and China needs a one-child punch.
[01:06:05]  The one-child punch for your obedience to my command to be fruitful and multiply, and now you don't get to drink.
[01:06:10]  And that to me is like, yeah, I think it's interesting because of that.
[01:06:13]  The promise is that the wealth of the wicked is laid up for the righteous.
[01:06:16]  That means that it can't just be the wicked that get to engage in pharmaceutical necromancy to live a really long time while the righteous die really young.
[01:06:24]  That actually means that the righteous have to live, and they probably have to live longer than the wicked, at least at some point.
[01:06:30]  Just read Psalm 37.
[01:06:31]  But I also love the irony of modern medicine.
[01:06:33]  They're like, hey, we are so good at what we do.
[01:06:36]  In Canada, we will help kill you sooner, actually.
[01:06:39]  We'll shorten your life.
[01:06:41]  That'll be great.
[01:06:43]  You need a tooth pulled.
[01:06:44]  We can either pull it or we can kill you.
[01:06:48]  Both are viable options.
[01:06:49]  You know what?
[01:06:50]  Sorry, just real quick.
[01:06:51]  To the point about the pole with the snake.
[01:06:54]  Oh, okay.
[01:06:55]  All right.
[01:06:55]  All right.
[01:06:55]  Here we go.
[01:06:56]  Actually.
[01:06:58]  Actually.
[01:06:58]  Yeah, I am literally Neil deGrasse Tyson.
[01:07:02]  I look just like him.
[01:07:04]  No, so there was a time where that was a Christian symbol and it was in reference to Moses in the wilderness.
[01:07:10]  He hoists up the bronze serpent and everyone that looks to it is healed.
[01:07:14]  It originally.
[01:07:15]  Came from the Greek god Asclepius, who is the god of Pharmacea.
[01:07:19]  And Pharmacea is drug induced, and when I say drug, I mean like hallucinogenic induced necromancy that heals someone and gives them longer life.
[01:07:30]  And Asclepius was said to go around bringing dead kings back from the dead so that they might continue to reign.
[01:07:36]  And he would always walk around with a staff with a live serpent coiled around it, and the serpent was telling him the secrets of life.
[01:07:44]  There's nothing there.
[01:07:46]  So then the Christians decided to start hospitals because we're the good ones.
[01:07:51]  And they started using the Moses symbol instead.
[01:07:54]  But then the pagans won the hospitals, so to speak.
[01:07:59]  And so instead of one snake, you'll oftentimes now see two.

=== Series Break and Patreon (01:55) ===

[01:08:04]  And that's actually a hermetic satanic symbol for the power of necromancy.
[01:08:10]  Just fun fact.
[01:08:12]  Wow.
[01:08:12]  That wasn't a very fun fact.
[01:08:13]  That was a good, actually.
[01:08:14]  Yeah.
[01:08:15]  That was a good, actually.
[01:08:16]  Just fun fact.
[01:08:18]  It wasn't fun, but it was good.
[01:08:19]  All right, so one last time, and then we'll go ahead and break.
[01:08:21]  Our next session is going to be at 3 o'clock.
[01:08:23]  We've got the one and only Mr. Moderate, Pastor Doug Wilson.
[01:08:28]  He'll be here at 3 p.m.
[01:08:29]  And so on Kyperionism, all of Christ for all of life.
[01:08:32]  He knows a thing or two about that.
[01:08:34]  So that'll be at 3 p.m.
[01:08:35]  So we'll take a little bit longer break than normal.
[01:08:37]  But one more reminder April 5th, first Friday of April, that's what will be coming out.
[01:08:42]  It's going to be a 10 part series.
[01:08:43]  Each episode is about an hour.
[01:08:45]  So every Friday, starting in April, it'll be April, May, and June.
[01:08:48]  10 Fridays in a row, it's me and Ben and Brian.
[01:08:52]  Atlantis, I think, is our first episode.
[01:08:53]  primary waters in there, Bigfoot, all the whole nine yards.
[01:08:56]  And so that'll be really great.
[01:08:57]  So if you want to get early access, ad-free access for that, sign up on Patreon.
[01:09:01]  And then the last thing in relation to Patreon is even though you guys are here in person, if you do want to have access to all the material, every single session and every panel for this weekend, this conference ahead of time, then all of our Patreon members are being able to get that right now.
[01:09:20]  And it's not just you have to watch it as it's live.
[01:09:22]  You'll have access to it after it's over.
[01:09:24]  If not, everything will be up on our podcast platforms, our website and YouTube.
[01:09:29]  But it's going to probably take, we're probably going to drip, slow drip, so that Nathan can edit and things like that.
[01:09:34]  But it'll probably be one piece of content from the conference every single week.
[01:09:38]  So by the time all seven sessions and both panels get out, we'll be, you know, two, all the way to like two and a half months from now.
[01:09:45]  So if you want the whole conference right now to share with family or friends and send them the link, we're fine if you do that.
[01:09:51]  Then join us on Patreon.
[01:09:52]  If not, no hard feelings.
[01:09:54]  Still love you.
[01:09:55]  Let's take a break, grab some coffee, go to the bathroom, and then 3 p.m. for Pastor Doug Wilson.
[01:09:59]  Thanks, guys.